GACACA COURT THAT HOSTED MUNYAKAZI AS THE ACCUSED

Time code

Person Speaking

Words

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Testimonies related to the crime of rape are not given in public.

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Any witness...

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Let’s try to restore the society.

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This restores Rwandan society in some way.

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In order to achieve this, Gacaca courts have been established as a strategy.

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In Gacaca courts each and every Rwandan is required to tell the truth

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about the genocide, what he saw, his own contribution and what he has heard of it

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in order to lean on this and restore the Rwandan society,

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and restore it bearing in mind that genocide was planned,

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investigating on its implementation, perpetrators,

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as well as its damages, so that this may serve as a foundation

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and then give us courage to really restore the society

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in reconciling Rwandans, the tripartite people

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so that they may live in good relations again, so that they may live together again being aware of what had broken them up.

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It is within this context that we always gather here all

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in order to remind each other what happened all over Rwanda

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especially in Rugenge sector.

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Rugenge was one of the sectors of the district.

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we find here Sainte Famille parish. As you know it well,

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during the genocide, Rwandans often went to hide in places where they used to go to pray God

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thinking they would find the very God who used to help them. However it was not the case; most of time they were killed there.

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Those places are catholic churches and others.

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Particularly, many people died in Sainte Famille.

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As you will be realizing, it remains even unknown to some that people who died in the church.

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They had come to hide; others joined them and went to the church courtyard.

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Some who went out were killed and others were thrown grenades at.

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Some were picked one after another and killed. I hope by today we will listen to

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Our testimonies or one of Major General Munyakazi Laurent

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As a someone who was living in Kigali, as an authority, as a person who

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Followed the events, heard, saw what was being done in this city of

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Kigali. The most important thing we want to know is

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The information about what happened what will help us know what I was just saying above

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And lead us to reconciliation and rebuilding of our nation.

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Normally we want this information to be delivered in its full truth.

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There are three things: what one did, heard and saw.

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Among people present, there are eyewitnesses and those who just heard of things.

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Rwandans here present are looking forward to making known the truth and making it available to the public

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So that we may build our nation with truth as a foundation.

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Ladies and gentlemen, the members of gacaca court panel in front of you make up the sector Court.

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As it has been said, it is made up of eighty-one gacaca court members

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From seven cells, the sector court and the court of appeal. That is nine times

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nine is eighty-one. For the moment they are to preside over the session.

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I would like to let you know that this sector of Rugenge

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Has been selected among gacaca courts trial sectors. The information collection step is already finished.

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Trial proceedings started some days ago what means the judges have gained some experience.

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They are good at law and penalties as well as all other related issues.

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As it has just been said, today is not scheduled for trial proceeding;

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We will be listening to testimonies. This aims at allowing a person who may have heard of something

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and intends to provide some addition to the witness’ s information or ask for some clarifications.

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The cession will be chaired by the presiding judge of the court in front of us.

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In his power and wisdom, I would like to go over to him

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And ask him to chair the cession as empowered by the law.

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I hope you will give constructive ideas

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To provide us with good and full information that will help restore our nation

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And take it from the chaos it was plunged into. Thank you!

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It will also help us be aware of consequences of genocide and the role of each and every Rwandan in order to fight against them.

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Thank you! Be seated please!

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I would like to ask my colleague to read for you today’s programme

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The floor will be given first to old men and people coming from very far. The speaker must

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Tell the truth and it is forbidden to disturb him/her,

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To insult people, attack or intimidate them. The speaker should not be brief

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And give time to others.

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No one should go beyond the agenda

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Set by the court so that we may all respect it.

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Here is article 29 in relation to respecting gacaca court activities:

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Providing information is an obligation to every Rwandan and the refusal to this

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as well as refusal to say what one saw or knows is punishable.

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Once gacaca court discovers him/her he/she will be sentenced to three up to six months in prison.

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In case of second offence, the guilty person shall be sentenced to six months up to

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One year in prison. Shall be considered as having refused to give information about what he/she saw or knows

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Any who will have kept silent while he knew something about an issue talked about by others

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And was present.

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Any who will have been asked to give information about what he/she knows in the court when it is known he really has some

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And kept silent, and discovered later that he really had it but did not reveal anything

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Or intentionally refused to answer a question asked to him; any who will have been summoned

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By the court and did not appear without reason so to avoid being asked about anything

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While it is clear he/she received the summon, shall be considered as having refused to give information

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In admitting that what he said was true and had proofs for it

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Then signed for it, in case it is discovered it was a lie and did it intentionally.

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Dishonesty is addressed during trial proceedings of the case in which

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the prosecuted person gave his/her testimony in case it is discovered he intentionally told lies.

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Article 30 provides that any who will be known of putting

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Pressure and threats on witnesses or gacaca Court Panel members

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Shall be sentenced to three months up to one year in prison.

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In case of second offence, the guilty person shall be sentenced to

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six months up to two years in prison. Shall be considered as putting pressure on the court

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Anything intended to getting it involved in anything different things from its attributions be it in physical actions,

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Words, and behavior that reflect intimidation toward the Court Panel in such a way that it is clear that in case it does not respect them

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Some of its members may be attacked.

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In this respect, the President might stop any speaker who does not respect the usual way of holding speech.

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When need is, the President of the cession might as well apply

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Article 38 in relation to rape;

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The raped person chooses among the members of the gacaca court Panel.

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As it has been demonstrated; Major general Munyakazi, in the time, I think

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He was still Major; was in charge of the gendarmerie at Sainte-Famille. Rutabana in question

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Is one of the people who escaped fights at Gisozi. He and his colleagues came

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And formed a fighter group at Sainte-Famille. They had guns. Of course they were not trained.

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They had guns. They arrested some people and killed others.

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Those people are those who were escaping to Sainte-Famille church. so, we want him

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To explain to us his relationship with Rutabana, how the two groups

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Were established at Sainte-Famille, how people were killed.

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That is the reason why we have called him as a witness.

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We have not called him for trial.

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Unfortunately, he received the invitation belatedly whereas he himself had asked

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To share with us some experiences at the level of Nyarugenge district. Now, we may go over to him.

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In case he is needed somewhere else such as in cells, such institutions will invite him

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on their own. Without delaying, we go over to him.

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Before he starts talking, we remind that he talk of three things: what he did himself,

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What he saw as it has been explained above and what he heard.

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The floor is his. He should start by what he did.

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Munyakazi

Eeh thank you gacaca court panel members! My name is ………

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Munyakazi

Major General Munyakazi. I was born in Kinihira district

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Munyakazi

In 1954, I am married to

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Munyakazi

Mukamanzi Monica with one child. I am in charge of the second division

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Munyakazi

Operating in Byumba, Mutara and Kibungo. Dear gacaca court panel members,

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Munyakazi

I would like to thank you for the opportunity you’ve just given me so that I may give my testimony

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President

We would like first to remind you a kind of practice here

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President

What you are about to undertake is giving a testimony

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Munyakazi

I guess you mean to swear!

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President

We want you to swear first of all

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President

You shall say: "I, such-and such, swear to God that what I am going to say is true".

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Munyakazi

I Major General Munyakazi, swear to god that what I am going to say

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Munyakazi

Is true.

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President

You have not told us your parents and the sector of origin so to know you well

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Munyakazi

My name is …Eeh My father’s name is Rukera and my mother’s Nyirakabanza.

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Munyakazi

Both my father and mother died in the genocide. My did as well.

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Munyakazi

I live alone with my houseboy. The cell is Bugerera.

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Munyakazi

Yes Bugerera! The district is Kinihira. I think you have known me now. The sector is Bugerera

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Munyakazi

Okay!

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President

We will ask you to go slowly so that …

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Munyakazi

I get your point

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President

So that we may take notes

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Munyakazi

I wanted to give my testimony to gacaca court in March.

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Munyakazi

Meanwhile, on 13th and 18th, the government of Rwanda

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Munyakazi

Sent me to Addis-Ababa in a mission so that could not be available.

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Munyakazi

In March from 4th to the 9th I was sent

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Munyakazi

To Mombasa in mission as well. I could not be available for the whole week.

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Munyakazi

From the tenth to the sixteenth, I was sent

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Munyakazi

Luanda in Angola in a mission too. From Luanda, on my own initiative,

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Munyakazi

I went to see the mayor of Nyarugenge district.

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Munyakazi

I asked him to give my testimony because it is my right as a Rwandan.

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Munyakazi

He first gave me the appointment of April, 30th 2005.

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Munyakazi

I would give my testimony on this day of community work

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Munyakazi

On the seventh May I talked to him in person

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Munyakazi

He is here himself. I had not received any summon from the tribunal. I personally took the initiative

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That is why on the sixth

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May, he wrote a letter to me after having considering

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one I had written to him, asking me to come today for my testimony

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As a Rwandan. In this testimony I would like to tell you

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in brief what I did between the first October 1990

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And the thirty- first December 1994

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In July 1990 I was studying in Belgium in the Ecole de Guerre

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I came back in July and I was appointed to the President of central record keeping

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Of the national gendarmerie. In August 1st,

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As you already know, the Rwanda Liberation War broke off. On 23rd, 24th,

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and 29th march 1991 the NSELE agreement was signed

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From April to September 1991

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I joined GOMMU chaired by the General BITA from Tanzania

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From September 1991 to I was still in GOMMU

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I stayed in GOMMU chaired at the time by a colonel from Zaire

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I stayed in GOMMU but because of the conflict between Rwanda

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and Burundi. The war was likely to take place from January to April 1992.

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In 1992 I was appointed to CPGL Security standing

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Grouping officers from Rwanda, Burundi and Zaire in order to study the resolution of the conflict.

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From April 1992 to August

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Not only I stayed in both the commission and GOMMU but also

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I went to staff headquarters from time to time in the third office where I worked.

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As you know, in July the Arusha agreement was signed.

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On August 30th 1993

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I joined GOMMU one and GOMMU two chaired by

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General Oparelle from Nigeria. From November 1993

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To the fourth 1994

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I was in charge of Camp Muhima and the commander of the mobile group that operated in Camp Muhima

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Called in the time Kigali Mobile group

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On the 4th July 1994, I left the city and exiled to

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Congo, Zaire in Southern Kivu where. I was living in Bukavu Boronge refugee camp.

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I came back to Rwanda on February 28th

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1995

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The testimony I want to give you concerns

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What I saw and heard all along my carrier

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And travels

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……

Try to be slow in your speech

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The first thing I want to highlight is that

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genocide started in 1959 and kept being planned and executed by the government of Rwanda.

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I mean the governments of Rwanda during the time of MDR PARMEHUTU and MRND.

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I will show how the genocide of Tutsis was planned and executed

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From October 1st, 1990

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To the 4th 1994

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By the successive governments of Rwanda.

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Here is the succession of those governments:

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From the first October 1990 to November 1991

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The President of the Republic was Habyarimana Juvenal

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The government was made by of ministers who were all from MRND.

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From December 1991 to April 1992,

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The president was still Habyarimana Juvenal, the then government headed by

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Nsanzimana was made of MRND and PDC.

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From April 1992 to July 1994,

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The president was Habyarimana Juvenal and the government headed by Nsengiyaremye

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Was made of MRND, MDR, PL, PCD, and PDC.

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From 1994 to April sixth 1994,

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The president was Habyarimana juvenal and the government headed by Uwiringiyimana

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Was made of MRND, MDR, PL PSD and PDC.

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From 6th 1994 to July 4th 1994,

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The president was Sindikubwabo, and the government was headed by Kambanda.

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I also want to show you that after the government exiled, it kept on

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Attacking Rwanda in order to resume genocide from where it stayed in the time.

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I also want to show you strategies used to make possible these killings in Rwanda. I will show as well, in my testimony, that the killings that started on April 6th had been planned.

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As you may have just realized it, I saw all of that all along different services I was involved in. This is what I am about to tell you right now.

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Tutsis were killed during thirty-five years:

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From 1959 to 1994.

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The period going from 1959 to July 1st 1962:

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During the period going from 1959 to July 1st 1962 the genocide of Tutsis was carried out by MDR PARMEHUTU, APROSOMA using Hutus so far considered as the Majority.

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The then policy aimed at chasing Tutsis out of the country and exterminating them. The genocide of Tutsis started in 1959.

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Many books show that the killings started in the very period.

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Yes, the genocide took place but neither the UN nor foreign countries took appropriate measures to punish the perpetrators in that time.

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During the period going from July 1st 1962 to October 1st 1990 the genocide was carried out by the government of Rwanda with MDR PARMEHUTU AND MRND. The Government established the policies briefly detailed as follows:

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It established the politics of exclusion aiming at chasing Tutsis out of the country in 1962, 1963, and 1973.

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In 1982, the then government of Rwanda refused the repatriation of Rwandan refugees living in Uganda. The government of Rwanda raised troops at the boarder in order to shoot at refugees intending to come back. This is real.

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In 1986, the government of Rwanda asked Uganda to take back to Uganda refugees that had settled in Mutara and Nansho. This was in line with the politics of exclusion.

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This was implemented in schools, work places, public services, and the army; everywhere the policy of extermination. Rwanda experienced this in 1962, 1963, 1967 and 1973.

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The genocide of Tutsis took place but neither the UN nor foreign countries took appropriate measures to prosecute those who carried it out.

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Please sir, we would like to ask you the copy of what you are telling us and start precisely from 1994 on April 7th to the 31st 1994.

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Please, I beg you not to muddle up my message! I need to be calm because there is a logical sequence of events in it. This is just an introduction. I am soon starting October 1st 1990. I only still have two lines.

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I think you are getting my point: I must provide explanations about the period going from October 1st 1990 to 31st and I have to introduce it.

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I would like to go on, if you allow it, without dropping out this introduction.

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……

We need to work together so to follow our programme

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We have told you three things to talk about: what you did, what you saw and what you heard. You will start by what you did. If there is not tell us there isn’t or you will …

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From 1959, the government favored killers of Tutsis. in other words, it enthroned impunity toward any who kills a Tutsi in Rwanda. The government of Rwanda and MRND, the then leading party, refused the repatriation of refugees.

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Since they knew that those refugees were going to come back by force, they started blacklisting Tutsis so to exterminate them.

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The genocide of Tutsis had been planned and was perpetrated since October 1st 1990 till October 31st 1994.

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As you’ve just asked me to, I am now going to tell you what I saw and heard, in the following lines. I mean the three points you asked me to develop.

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The government of Rwanda in power since 1st 1990 till December 1991

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had Major General Habyarimana Juvenal as the president of the republic and ministers from MRND as it had been for many successive governments by the way. The genocide of Tutsis started on October 1st 1990.

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The extermination of Tutsis started being put into practice on October 1st 1990

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The government of Rwanda and MRND, the then leading party, started killing Tutsis in Rwanda because every Rwandan and all leaders at all levels adhered to MRND hence had to execute the orders from the MRND central committee and its President.

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On October 1st 1990, the strategy of bringing fake accusations against Tutsis started being used by the government of Rwanda and MRND who faked the charge of betrayal against Tutsis so that Hutus might exterminate them in very short time under pretext that Tutsis who were in Rwanda collaborated with Inyenzi hence had to be arrested and killed.

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Tutsis were wrongfully accused of keeping guns and bullets to kill hutus all over Rwanda. They were wrongfully accused of keeping Inyenzi’s guns and bullets and having transmitting and receiving sets to communicate with Inyenzi. All this intended to arresting and killing them. it was said that, in their murderous operations, Tutsis had identity cards model IV drawn and printed in Sisi Evariste’s printing house

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So that Inyenzi might kill hutus who had identity cards model III. Tutsis were also wrongfully accused of having dug graves in their houses in which to bury Hutus after killing them.

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The government of Rwanda invented a story according to which Inyenzi alongside their accomplices had left Uganda to invade Kigali during the night the 4th and the 6th October 1990.

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Within the context of this scenario, soldiers and gendarmes from Kanombe, Kacyiru, Kami and Kigali military camps were ordered by the army staff and the gendarmerie to shoot in the air all the night. I saw this myself because I told you I was here in the city

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The government of Rwanda headed by Habyarimana lied to Rwandans and foreign countries that the Rwandan army had just beaten Inyenzi and their accomplices having invaded Kigali and that the invaders had been caught with their guns and many bullets as well as transmitting and receiving sets. It added that in case one needed proofs would go to see them at Gikondo police station.

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The president of the republic Habyarimana Juvenal ordered to arrest Tutsis who were in Rwanda whom he called accomplices of Inyenzi as well as Hutus presumed to be in connection with Inyenzi who invaded Rwanda.

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In Kigali, the arrested people were taken to Nyamirambo stadium and had to be killed in the shortest future because they had been called the enemies of the whole country. Here is the high-ranking staff of FAR (Forces Armées Rwandaises) [Rwanda Army Forces] similar to one of the unities in Kigali.

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In the president’s office, the president was Habyarimana whose private secretary was Sagatwa. In the Military intelligence, there were such people as Nuwayezu and Simbikangwa.

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The commander of the Republican Guard was lieutenant-colonel Nkundiye. All of them were from Gisenyi.

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G3: Lieutenant-colonel Rwabarinda and G4 Major Ngirumpatse.

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The gendarmerie staff was headed by the gendarmerie chief-staff and army chief-staff Habyarimana, the MRND President. The gendarmerie deputy chief-staff was Colonel Rwagafirita who was also the president of the central committee. G1: colonel Ngayinteranya, G2: Lieutenant-Colonel Rutayisire, J3: Colonel Hakizimana and G4: Major Nsanzimfura.

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Here are unities operating in Kigali: the commander of Kanombe military camp was Colonel Bagosora, battalion commander was major Ntabakuze, junior battalion commander was Major Ntibihora, the ordnance commander was Mutabera, Colonel Bagosora, base commander was Major Nubaha and the head of health department was Lieutenant-colonel Baransabitse.

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ESM (Ecole Supérieure Militaire) [Senior Military Academy): the director was Colonel Buregeya; the air force department was headed by Colonel Ntahobari; in Kami military Camp there was Bararwerekana; in Kigali military camp, Major Ntizigirwa whereas Kacyiru military camp was commanded by lieutenant-colonel Nyuragabo and the mobile group by Major Rwarakabije.

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Kigali formation commander was Major General Nturagabo; technician commander was colonel Biganiro whereas the commander general was Captain Ndayisaba; traffic security commander was Nzabonimpa and I, Major Munyakazi, was the central chief record-keeper.

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It is clear to one’s eyes that all unities were commanded by people from Gisenyi or Ruhengeri. In addition, the very unities arrested people, arrested Tutsis and Hutus and took them to the stadium within the context of the operation ordered by the national army staff.

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In October 1990, colonel Rwagafirita who was a member of MRND central committee and gendarmerie deputy chief staff always said that all Tutsis living in Rwanda had to be killed because they were the enemies of the country and accomplices of Inyenzi.

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According to them, all Tutsis had to be arrested and killed in the shortest future without any trial. He always said that and it was realized that he told it French confirming that Tutsis were in small number, that they would easily be killed. He said it in the parliamentary report submitted to General Jean Valle who was in charge of the French Military Commission.

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He [General Jean Valle] also told the commission that he had known this from Rwagafirita himself.

00:03:28:01

In October 1990, colonel Serubuga who was a member of the central committee and Rwandan army chief staff said that he had just found the alibi to kill all Tutsis on October 1st all over Rwanda. He always said that, confirming that Tutsis were the enemies of the country. He even said it to French in his own words that Tutsis would all die.

00:04:04:01

It is clearly stated in the parliamentary commission report that the then ambassador to Rwanda said that he had been told those words by colonel Serubuga. Clearly both colonel Serubuga and colonel Rwagafirita who commanded the army and gendarmerie headquarters had already told French that Tutsis would be killed.

00:04:39:23

Even in October 1990 the then defense attaché colonel Réné Darny wrote in his report that seven hundred thousand Tutsis would die in Rwanda in such a way that the issue was raised in the French parliamentary report.

00:05:09:20

The reason why people were not exterminated in 1990 as it had been planned is that other countries and embassies put pressure on Habyarimana and obliged him to release people showing that they were innocent.

00:05:41:07

When they went to Gikondo police station, they realized that the guns, transmitting and receiving sets were just a story invented to put fake accusations on Tutsis.

00:05:57:24

A clearing commission chaired by the prosecutor general Nkubito discovered that there were neither guns nor bullets found in Tutsis’ houses in the whole country. The commission found out that there was no model IV of the identity card discovered in Tutsis. It also found out that there were no graves dug in houses and fields of Tutsis, which graves, as said, Tutsis would bury hutus in.

00:06:41:04

As you have said that one has to say what he knows or heard, MRND maintained this policy up to April, May and June. They did not change at all.

00:06:58:13

That is why I wanted to deeply explain this problem in order to make you understand well.

00:07:05:08

During all this time, that government carried out genocide of Tutsis. It carried out the genocide of Tutsis in October 1990 in Mutara and Byumba. It carried out the genocide of Tutsis in January 1991 in Kibirira, Gisenyi and the genocide of Bagogwe in January 1991 in Ruhengeri and Gisenyi.

00:07:48:16

Other countries started denouncing those killings by the government of Rwanda. However, the government of Rwanda and MRND refused the Agreement of Nsele signed on March 29th 1991 and kept planning the extermination of Tutsis in Rwanda.

00:08:22:01

From October RPF had always denounced that genocide of Tutsis carried out by the government of Rwanda and headed by MRND for successive terms. MRND Members were present in all positions in the government of December 1991 till April 16th 1992.

00:08:51:22

The president of the republic was Major General Habyarimana, the prime minister was Nsanzimana and ministers were MRND members. The prime minister was from PDC.

00:09:05:19

The government still rejected agreements and went on planning the extermination of Tutsis in Rwanda.

The government of Rwanda kept on killing people and in March 1992 there was the genocide of Tutsis in Kibirira, Gisenyi, in Bugesera, and Kigali Ngali.

00:09:53:23

The government formed on April 16th 1992 and reshuffled in July 1993 had Major General Habyarimana Juvenal as the president of the republic and Nsengimana as the prime minister. This government was made up of ministers from different political parties: MRND had 9, MDR 3, PSD3, PL 3, and PDC 1.

00:10:16:09

The government of Rwanda still refused the agreements and kept the war logic and the extermination of Tutsis.

00:10:32:13

As you know it, the genocide of Tutsis was carried out in June and July 1992 in Bugesera, Kigali Ngali. The genocide of Tutsis was carried out in March 1992 in Gisenyi, Kibirira and Kibuye.

00:10:54:17

From March to June 1992, the president of the republic Habyarimana, the government headed by Nsanzimana, and the government headed by Nsengiyaremye kept carrying out the genocide of Tutsis in Gisenyi and elsewhere in Rwanda, as I have just demonstrated it above.

00:11:15:01

RPF asked the government of Rwanda to cease the killings and decided to stop the genocide in Rwanda.

00:11:30:07

The government of Rwanda accepted to stop killings in Bugesera, Kigali Ngali. The government and RPF signed Arusha agreement on July 12th 1992.

00:11:55:11

MRND, CDR and some officers in favor of MRND were not happy about the agreement of the 10th and 30th October 1992 and 9th January 1993 concerning the power sharing in the government. They accused minister Ngurinzira from MDR of being RPF’s accomplice since he had granted to RPF the ministries before occupied by MRND.

00:12:39:16

Those ministries were the ministry of interior, the ministry of transport, the ministry of health, and the ministry of youth.

00:12:47:17

In January 1993, the president Habyarimana and MRND continued the genocide of Tutsis in Kibirira and Kibuye.

00:13:05:12

On February 4th 1993, RPF asked the AUO [African Union Organization] to tell the government of Rwanda to stop the genocide of Tutsis in Gisenyi, Kibuye and all over Rwanda. it also said there was enough force to protect Rwandans who were being killed not later than three days from then

00:13:32:21

RPF did it and on February 8th 1993 it decided to start the war intended to stop genocide all over Rwanda.

00:13:40:21

On February 9th 1993, RPF was about 30 km from Kigali. Other countries ordered RPF to stop the war intended to stop genocide that was taking place in Rwanda and the very countries started suggesting to RPF to withdraw.

00:14:06:19

From February 25th to March 2nd 1993 RPF met MDR, PL, PSD, and PDC in Bujumbura and accepted the ceasefire.

00:14:28:22

MRND refused to go to Bujumbura and continued the plan of exterminating Tutsis in Rwanda. On March 7th 1993 Dar-es-salaam communiqué signed between RPF and the government of Rwanda was issued.

00:14:48:13

As you know, MRND and CDR rejected the Dar-es- Salaam communiqué and continued their project of exterminating Tutsis in Rwanda.

00:15:03:03

The government in power from July 1993 to April 6th 1994 comprised major General Habyarimana as the president of the republic, Uwiringiyimana Agatha as the prime minister, 9 ministers from MRND, 3 from MDR, 3 from PSD, 3 from PL, and one from PDC.

00:15:36:09

On August 4th 1993, RPF and the government of Rwanda signed Arusha peace Agreement. After the signing of Arusha agreement, MRND and CDR continued to refuse the agreement of power sharing with RPF. During that time, MRND and CDR continued to stay away from those agreements and maintained their programme of exterminating Tutsis and rejecting agreements as well as training and equipping their militias.

00:16:18:23

After August 4th 1993, MRND, CDR, alongside MDR Power and PL Power, continued the programme of exterminating Tutsis. The president Habyarimana refused the establishment of the transitional government and National Assembly.

00:16:45:06

The government would have 21 ministers and the National Assembly 71 deputies.

00:16:53:12

The president Habyarimana was afraid that 48 of 71 deputies would make decisions and that 14 of 21 ministers would decide as well. That is why he wanted to have 1/3 plus one person.

00:17:14:12

In the National Assembly there would be 11 deputies from MRND and other 13 of whom he thought 6 would come from MDR Power, 5 from PL Power and 2 from other parties. 5 ministers would come from MRND, 3 from MDR Power and 1 from PL Power.

00:17:41:20

There was a very bad atmosphere among Politicians in Rwanda from July 1993 to April 6th 1994. There was a misunderstanding in MDR and PL. MRND, CDR, and PL Power wanted the war so to beat RPF and Tutsis whom treated as accomplices in Rwanda.

00:18:19:17

In FAR, there was a very bad atmosphere as well. There was such a misunderstanding that some were for MRND, CDR, PL Power were strongly against MDR Uwiringiyimana’s leanings, PL Lando’s leanings, and RPF supported by all Tutsis in Rwanda called RPF INKOTANYI’s accomplices

00:18:45:17

The part of FAR on the side of MRND, CDR, PL, MDR power supported MRND’s, CDR’s, PL Power’s, and MDR Power’s militias in such a way that it supplied them in war equipment to use in the war of exterminating Tutsis in Rwanda

00:19:44:04

Those protocols of agreement of October 10th 1992 and January 9th 1993 talked about power sharing.

00:19:54:19

The protocol of agreement of August 3rd talked about power sharing in national army and gendarmerie. There were some soldiers who said they could not work with Tutsis and Inyenzi in the national army and gendarmerie.

00:20:15:00

From 1960 to December 1993, people from Gisenyi and Ruhengeri constituted the majority in FAR and occupied very important positions in all domains in FAR. They were not happy about hearing that the government headed by Agatha Uwiringiyimana would demobilize their officers due to the principle that had just been set in relation to sharing 12 positions among 11 prefectures of Rwanda.

00:20:51:06

The government headed by Uwiringiyimana Agatha decided that each prefecture would have one place except Gisenyi that would have two. This decision caused discontent in soldiers from Gisenyi and Ruhengeri who turned against the prime minister Uwiringiyimana Agatha given that those decisions had been made at the level of every prefecture.

00:21:15:15

Rwandan army’s Seats to transitional government were shared as follows. Rwandan army Ruhengeri: chief staff A1 major General Nsabimaana; Byumba: brigadier commander Colonel Bizimungu; Kigali city: brigadier commander Colonel Gatsinzi; Kibungo: deputy Brigadier commander Lieutenant-colonel Sebuhire; Butare: deputy brigadier commander Major Gasarabwe.

0021:53:10

National gendarmerie in Gikongoro: colonel Rutayisire; deputy chief staff in Cyangugu: Major Bavugamenshi; Kibuye formation commander: lieutenant-colonel Nzapfakumunsi; Kigali formation commander: Major Nsanzimfura; Gitarama formation commander: commander Ndereyimana; Gisenyi formation commander: Major Munyarugerero and Major Nzabonimpa had been appointed.

00:22:23:05

From January 5th 1994, after the president Habyarimana swore, there was a bad atmosphere in politicians and FAR soldiers. On 8th January 1994 Interahamwe of MRND, Impuzamugambi of CDR as well as other young men of MDR Power made a march in Kigali city and at CND showing their strength and that they would exterminate Tutsis who lived in Rwanda.

00:23:02:06

From this date, militias of those political parties in all sectors of Kigali and all communes of Rwanda received guns and bullets they used during genocide which started on April 6th 1994.

00:23:34:21

After the death of Gatabazi in February 1993 there was genocide of Tutsis in Kigali. MINUAR was seeing that Tutsis were being killed by the government of Rwanda.

00:23:56:13

In the government in power from June 4th 1994 to July 4th 1994, the president was Sindikubwabo and the prime minister Kambanda. In the night of 6th to 7th April , the government of Rwanda headed by Kambanda that was composed of MRND, MDR Power, PL Power and others continued to plan and carry out the genocide of Tutsis all over Rwanda which cost more than one million lives between April and July 4th 1994.

00:24:51:24

The strategies that was prepared since October 1990. On April 7th 1994, RPF Inkotanyi decided to stop the genocide. On 4th RPF Inkotanyi stopped Rwanda’s genocide, they stopped the genocide all over Rwanda.

00:25:24:01

Strategies used to exterminate Tutsis include blacklisting them in order to kill them. Here is the problem you usually encounter probably. I am going to tell you all of that because I have come here for that.

00:25:44:06

Blacklisting Tutsis and bringing fake accusations against them so that they get killed by hutus, publication of ten commandments of Hutus so to make the latter hate and then kill Tutsis, convincing Hutus at all levels that any tutsi living in Rwanda or in exile is an enemy that needs killing, setting barriers in all paths even in cells all over Rwanda so to hunt every tutsi and prevent him from escaping, searching houses in order to find where Tutsis might be hiding so kill them,

00:26:36:03

Munyakazi

Giving out guns in the population of all communes all over Rwanda which guns were to be used in order to exterminate Tutsis, establishing militias Interahamwe of MRND and Impuzamugambi of CDR intended to kill Tutsis on the barriers and where they might be hiding, training Interahamwe and Impuzamugambi in order to invade houses of religious people of the Catholic Church, churches and schools where Tutsis might have gone for escape so kill them in a very short time.

00:27:16:13

Munyakazi

Convincing hutus that they are above Tutsis and that killing the latter, raping tutsi women, burning their houses, seizing their property shall not be punished in Rwanda. Blacklisting Tutsis was a strategy that started being used since 1961 and 1973 by MDR PARMEHUTU.

00:27:52:23

Munyakazi

The method was also used by MRND chaired by Habyarimana Juvenal on October 1st 1990. The president’s office had an intelligence department that kept the lists of Tutsis to be caught and killed at once because Inyenzi had invaded Rwanda.

00:28:18:16

Munyakazi

I think I have already told you that on October 1st 1990, the government of Rwanda used the strategy of charging Tutsis of fake accusations in order to abuse their reputation. I will repeat it because the very accusations took four years.

00:28:57:24

Munyakazi

Tutsis were wrongfully accused of being accomplices of Inyenzi to be killed like any other enemy, of keeping guns and bullets as well as transmitting and receiving sets. as I have already showed above, the government of Rwanda invented a story whereby Inyenzi had invaded. I have already explained that the government accepted the publication and teaching of the ten commandments of hutus to the population.

00;29:50:20

President

are you through?

00:29:53:23

Munyakazi

No, people are making noise. You may tell them to keep quiet!

00:30:00:13

President

Please hold on! Hold on please! Remember the instructions we have already read. Let him finish.

00:30:06:16

Munyakazi

On September 21st 1992, chief staff Nsabimaana told soldiers in the army that every tutsi living in Rwanda was an enemy.

00:30:29:17

Munyakazi

This ideology had already existed since 1963 and had just been put into writing by the army staff. Political parties such as MRND, CDR, MDR Power, and PL Power with their lists had convinced their members that a tutsi is an enemy to be killed. In order to locate the enemy and prevent him from escaping, barriers were set in all paths in cells of Rwanda. Houses and bushes were also searched to se where a tutsi might be hiding and kill him.

00:31:25:03

Munyakazi

This method was used since April 6th 1994 till July 4th 1994 and cost many lives of Tutsis in Rwanda

00:31:30:09

Munyakazi

Because the population in cells was ordered to settle on the barriers, be on patrol all nights looking for a Tutsi in order to kill him. This method was called self and common defense. This was just fancying other countries so that they might not denounce it but the method was actually intended to exterminating Tutsis in Rwanda since it had been put that a Tutsi is an enemy to be killed.

00:31:59:20

Munyakazi

Guns had also been given out since October 1st 1990. The guns intended to exterminate Tutsis. The establishment of MRND and CDR militias was illegal as far as Rwandan law was concerned. Interahamwe and Impuzamugambi were also trained. From 1959, Tutsis had been escaping to houses of religious people, churches and schools of the Catholic church and could survive

00:32:38:08

Munyakazi

Because the population feared to kill Tutsis in those houses. MRND and CDR trained Interahamwe and Impuzamugambi to attack those houses, churches and schools of the catholic Church and kill in very short time the Tutsis in.

00:38:07:05

Munyakazi

This method was used till July 4th. That is the reason why people who escaped there were attacked many times. Interahamwe were set to exterminate them and killed many Tutsis in those houses, churches and schools.

00:33:26:00

Munyakazi

Since 1959, the governments of Rwanda had been using a big number of Hutus to kill Tutsis whom Hutus seized the property of the latter without any prosecution by the government.

00:33:56:06

Munyakazi

Now here is what I saw at Goma when I was exiling with FAR People though people may say that is not necessary, I am afraid…

Munyakazi

April, June 1994 till July 3rd 1994, officers who were in the army and gendarmerie staff command are the following: in the time Bizimana was not in Rwanda. Bagosora was the principal private secretary.

00:34:56:21

Munyakazi

In the army staff command, there were regions. Mutara region was commanded by lieutenant-colonel Karyabwite and Byumba region by Bizimungu replaced by lieutenant-colonel Ruvugabagabo. Gisenyi region was commanded by lieutenant-colonel Nsengiyumva whereas Rusimo was under Nkwiyekubona. Butare was commanded by Gatsinzi later replaced by Muvunyi, Gitarama by lieutenant-colonel Habufite, Bugesera by Ntabakuze. Nyanza was under Gasarabwe, Cyangugu Musonera, and Kigali region was commanded by colonel Muberuka whereas Overall Command was under colonel Ndahimana and Command1 under Nkwiyekubona.

00:36:00:02

Munyakazi

In the capital Kigali, there were many unities and commanders: one for Kimihurura military camp, one for Kigali military camp, one for Kanombe military camp , one for ESM, one for Muhima military camp, and another for Kacyiru military camp.

00:36:04:18

Munyakazi

Killings.

Political parties such as MRND, CDR, MDR Power, PL Power and governmental administration kept conspiring in the capital Kigali. As far as the killings of Tutsis from October 1st 1990 to December 31st 1994 are concerned, the reaction was that all reports showed that those killings were carried out by the government of Rwanda together with FAR, authorities at all levels as well as a big number of the population.

00:00:11:16

Munyakazi

I was the head of central record-keeping from October 2nd 1990 in the capital Kigali. In my duties, I drew a report to the gendarmerie chief staff and the minister of defense saying that I had not caught a single Tutsi with model IV identity card so far said to be held by all Tutsis in Rwanda, what was just an invented story.

00:01:16:09

Munyakazi

The second thing I did is that I drew a report saying that we found no spool neither in Sisi Evariste’s printing house at Kicukiro nor in other Tutsis accused of keeping them and giving them out in Tutsis so that Inyenzi might distinguish them from Hutus. Those accusations had been brought by the central intelligence department of the president’s office.

munyakazi

Munyakazi

I drew a report saying that there was no gun found, illegally possessed by a single tutsi because there were Tutsis who possessed guns that they had been given by the government

00:02:14:18

Munyakazi

I reported that no gun stores, bullets, transmitting and receiving sets were found in Tutsis’ houses. I also went to Gikondo police station. I found out that the guns showed to be taken from Tutsis were worn and greased. They were kept in small stores of the Rwandan army. We asked gendarmes who were around. They told us that the guns had been brought by GD soldiers commanded by lieutenant-colonel Nsengiyumva. We met there some agents from embassies who had come to see the guns

00:03:25:20

Munyakazi

We also found out that the transmitters and receivers said to be taken from Inyenzi were too worn and could not work. The soldiers we met at Gikondo told us that the transmitters and receivers had been brought by GD soldiers which GD was commanded by the Lieutenant-colonel. I handed in those reports to gendarmerie chief staff and the minister of defense. The same reports were submitted to the prosecutor general Lorge.

00:04:17:24

President

Please, another clarification! Did you hand the report in to Habyarimana’s regime or the current regime? I mean ours.

00:04:20:05

Munyakazi

I handed it in to Habyarimana’s regime

0004:22:19

President

Is it before the war?

00;04:27:24

Munyakazi

Yes, before! I told you that it was on 4th and 6th. That is the time when we met agents from embassies, which started putting pressure on Habyarimana saying he was bringing fake accusations against Tutsis in order to have the alibi to kill them.

00:04:51:13

President

I don’t know whether you are through so that we may ask you another question!

00:04:53:16

Munyakazi

Not yet. I ‘m still developing what you have asked me about….

00:04:57:19

President

Try to tackle questions you’ve been asked: what you did personally.

00:04:59:13

Munyakazi

Of course that is what I did personally!

00:05:01:08

President

That was just reports! What would you tell us about the genocide? Did you do anything?

00:05:10:06

Munyakazi

That is what I am going to talk about. Right!

00:05:26:12

President

Hello! Listen please!

00:05:30:20

Munyakazi

On April 6th 1994 I was the commander of Muhima military camp and Kigali mobile group commander. The mobile group was a unity of the national gendarmerie in charge of protecting Radio Rwanda, Rwanda television, Rwandatel, the National bank, and MINADEF.

00:07:09:06

Munyakazi

I say it once again: as the mobile group commander, my duty was to protect Radio Rwanda, Rwanda television, Rwandatel, the National bank, and MINADEF. As the commander of Muhima military camp, I had to protect Muhima military camp.

00:07:50: 06

Munyakazi

Do I answer your question about what I did? What I did as the mobile group commander is to give the order to gendarmes to protect Radio Rwanda, Rwanda television, Rwandatel, the National bank, and MINADEF as well as the population and religious people who were in Saint-Michel cathedral.

00:09:11:07

President

Go on

00:09:15:16

Munyakazi

in Saint-Michel cathedral….

00:09:18:22

President

You have just said what you did and the duties of gendarmes under your command. Now we want to know; what was your role in all that? You have absolutely said you did not do anything wrong. Would you explain to us?

00:09:39:11

Munyakazi

In Saint-Michel cathedral… in Saint-Michel cathedral… The gendarmes under my command succeeded to protect all the people who escaped to Saint-Michel cathedral. I protected religious people and all others who came there. Displaced people who were at Gisimba’s were taken from Nyamirambo to Saint-Michel cathedral because it was known that it was protected by gendarmes under the command of lieutenant-colonel Munyakazi.

00:10:45:16

President

Let him talk so to explain what we will ask him. You are allowed neither to laugh at him nor to acclaim what he says be it false or true. You shall be given the floor when need is!

00:11:00:19

Munyakazi

in Saint-Michel cathedral… you know… though I see people laughing at me! I protected all those orphans and old people from Nyamirambo till July 4th when gendarmes exiled. They had not hurt anyone though. Gisimba himself can confirm that.

00:11:40:02

Munyakazi

Note father Karibushi as well. Father Karibushi who received those displaced people in Saint-Michel cathedral. This was in the center of my area. No single individual was attacked by the gendarmes under my command in Saint-Michel cathedral. You shall invite Father Karibushi. Even Gisimba can tell you that I did not hurt any of his children and old people.

00:12:23:20

Munyakazi

I now go to something else; as the commander of Muhima military camp. At one time, Nyarugenge territory company came to settle next to Muhima military camp. It used to stay in the police’s place today. Though Nyarugenge territory company belonged to Kigali formation, I gave them orders. I ordered captain Nyiribambe to go and protect the people who were in Hotel de Mille Collines, in Sainte-Famille church, in Saint-Michel cathedral, I beg your pardon! It is rather saint-Paul centre and Lycée Notre Dame de Citeaux.

00:13:52:08

Munyakazi

The gendarmes of the company protected Hotel de Milles Collines. They were with lieutenant-colonel Mwangi of MINUAR.

00:14:24:09

Munyakazi

On June 27th, the army staff command displaced people who were … Those who had stayed were displaced pretending that other activities were to be established there. It was said French would come to settle in Kigali. In that time, the territory company had no responsibilities because the hotel had just been seized by Rwanda army staff command

00:5:14:21

Munyakazi

On the 10th, Hotel de Milles Collines was repeatedly attacked by Interahamwe militias because it sheltered people called RPF accomplices. However, the gendarmes of the company together with the mobile group who were at Hotel de Milles Collines, as I told you, fought against Interahamwe

00:15:52:09

Munyakazi

On June 17th 1994, the Interahamwe militias came in a very big number and succeeded to enter the hotel. They broke doors and started getting people down in order to kill them. I was called and I went there. I found two families that had just been taken to the reception desk to be killed. I may even tell you the families so that you may ask them yourself.

00:16:50:19

Munyakazi

There was the family of Murindangabo Embroise and one of Habiyakare. They all saw that I was coming for their help

00:17:11:18

Munyakazi

When I was at Hotel de Milles Collines on 17th, there was Father Uwimana the priest of Saint-André parish who had escaped to Saint-Paul center but went to Hotel de Milles Collines after. He saw me at the hotel; I even gave orders to go for help to people who were at Saint-Paul and Sainte-Famille and chase Interahamwe who were going there to kill them.

00:18:01:09

Munyakazi

Father Uwimana told me: "I can see that you still have a human heart to help people. I want to beg you one thing; I want you to go for help to people who are at Saint-Paul center who are going to get killed by Interahamwe. They are at father Vermerie’s". They were sitting down in the caves at Bishop Vermerie’s.

00:18:39:00

Munyakazi

I went to him and said that I did not know at Father Vermerie’s. He suggested going together so that he might lead me. I was in a pick-up vehicle. We went to take priests and nuns who were there. I took all of them to Saint-Michel cathedral. Among the priests, there was Hakizimana Celestin who was in charge of Saint-Paul center, Mwumvaneza Anaclet, Galican Ndayisaba, Sfi, Tubane and other people with him. I carried them in the pickup to Saint-Michel cathedral. I was with Father Uwimana. I did it two times

00:20:11:02

Munyakazi

Surprisingly, I read in newspapers…. Meanwhile when Inkotanyi came and took people with them, MP Rugema Donatien went among the people. On the way he came back to Saint-Paul lest he should get killed. He had joined the group at Saint-Paul and stayed with them. When I went there for their help, he immediately ran away and went to Sainte-Famille to tell displaced people who were in that he had just escaped from death: lieutenant-colonel had taken people in a pickup and was going to kill them.

00:21:15:20

Munyakazi

He had been with the people in saint-Paul all the day, refused to be taken with others and went to bring fake accusations against me in the church saying that I was going to kill those I had taken with me. All those people are still alive. Investigations have proven that. They are all alive.

00:21:43:08

Munyakazi

Because I was at Saint-Michel cathedral, on 18th and 19th I was asked by priests to take Saint-Vincent and Assumption sisters as well as religious brothers who were in Procure and bring them to Saint-Michel cathedral so that they might stay together. I took all of them to the cathedral. Nothing bad happened to them. They are all alive, invite them; they will tell you. I did not harm them.

00:22:38:14

Munyakazi

Meanwhile, the gendarmes I had transferred to Saint-Paul center and Sainte-Famille had another duty given to them. It had not been evoked but we have to evoke it for the moment. Displaced people comprised two parts: there were displaced people who were for the government outside the church, to the primary school and to JOC. These ones could walk without any problem. There were others who were hiding in the church and Saint-Paul center who could not have neither food nor water.

00:23:46:05

Munyakazi

Father Hakizimana, praised for having helped a lot displaced people, together with Father Galican as well as other priests they were together, told me the problem. They said that they sheltered displaced people but did not have means to get water and food. There were Interahamwe there and they could not leave so to bring food from CARITAS stock at Nyamirambo, Saint-André and … the place where the Church built a very big house

00:24:45:21

Munyakazi

They asked me to give them gendarmes to help them get food for displaced people. I accepted that gendarmes at saint-Paul center and Sainte-Famille went to fetch water for the displaced people. They even went to bring food for them. Even though these things are not often evoked the priests who were there may tell you that the gendarmes did that work.

00:25:32:01

Munyakazi

Something else I did as far as helping people is concerned is running a secret operation with Father Hakizimana. In our secret operation, we were well-suited that the food would be taken from Sainte-Famille stock and sent to King Faycal Hospital and Hotel Méridien through Red Cross because there was no food. We wanted to secretly take the food from CARITAS stocks at Nyamirambo and bring it in the area controlled by RPF. We would proceed like that. We did it exactly that way.

00:26:24:11

Munyakazi

Priests who present, that is the secret. You have been asking what we did. I, lieutenant-colonel Munyakazi, accepted to send in a deep secret the food eaten by people in King Faycal, in Hotel Méridien. Even my seniors asked me about that and I denied it because it was a very deep secret. You can see that I was a good-hearted man; I did not even want people to starve

00:27:00:24

President

Do you think you are through? Have you said that the mobile group at Sainte-Famille and Saint-Paul …

00:27:12:03

Munyakazi

I ordered Captain Ntirugiribambe

00:27:15:22

President

Do you mean you set them to protect people who had escaped to the church?

00:27:19:01

Munyakazi

Definitely!

00:27:19:23

President

Wasn’t it that way?

00:27:22:05

Munyakazi

I gave orders

00:27:23:01

President

Alright! Before that, I want to start by the reason why we had invited you though you did not get the invitation ….

00:27:34:14

Munyakazi

I did not get it

00:27:37:07

President

We want to know your relationship with… As you explained, there were two groups at Sainte-Famille. One of gendarmes of course under your command, and another of the population who were armed. Wasn’t it that way? Did you explain it that way? You had the responsibility to protect people as you said. How come that there were armed people killing others who were running away because of their ethnic group? I think you all know that. You have also explained it.

00:27:50:20

President

Before we get deep into the matter, we would like to ask you about rumors about you so that you may say something about it as well. Would you say something about your relationship with armed people who had escaped from fights at Gisozi? These people set barriers in roads and arrested people who went to Sainte-Famille in order to kill them. How can you explain it given that your protection did not save lives since all people who were at Sainte-Famille died? You shall explain to us the above relationship and tell us the importance of your gendarmes considering that people died every single day.

00:28:47:09

Munyakazi

I am afraid you have not understood me well! I told you that I commanded the mobile group. I also told you that the mobile group watched over Saint-Michel cathedral. Do you get me? I told you there was no problem at Saint-Michel Cathedral.

00:29:21:24

Munyakazi

Then as the commander of Muhima military camp, I ordered the territory company that was there, to settle at Hotel de Mille Collines, Sainte-Famille church, Saint-Paul center, and Lycée Notre Dame de Citeaux in order to protect the population. Personally I did not have any connection with the Interahamwe.

00:30:10:13

President

Explain it well till we really understand. Why were those Interahamwe armed? It was among your duties to protect people so that they might not be killed. Where did those people get guns from if you were not connected with them?

00:30:26:02

Munyakazi

I told you that the gendarmes protected the population there. Whether gendarmes went there from time to time, whether they were connected with them, Captain Ntirugiribambe may explain it to you better. I ensure you that I had no connection with the Interahamwe who attacked Sainte-Famille church and Saint-Paul center.

00:30:56:17

President

Do you accept that many people died at saint-Famille and Saint-Paul Sir?

00:31:01:20

Munyakazi

Of course! I do know that people died there

00:31:05:14

President

So, the task you had given to your gendarmes was to protect who exactly?

00 :31 :09 :01

Munyakazi

The population, yes I know!

00 :31 :1 :21

President

Which population?

00:31:13:17

Munyakazi

One that had escaped there

00:31:16:02

President

In the church and at Saint-Paul center? Isn’ it?

00:31:18:01

Munyakazi

Yes, it is.

00;31:21:09

President

So, why were they dying every single day? It is clear in many reports and many people who had escaped there say it. How can you really explain that? It is not clear!

00:31:34:08

Munyakazi

Tell me first what those reports are so that I may have the idea of those accusations brought against me as you are saying.

00:31:47:09

President

I just wanted to explain to you so to have the same understanding of things. This is not a trial. It is just information collection

00:31:52:09

Munyakazi

You have just said yourself that this is not a trial! On June 17th, I read in newspapers that I headed the Interahamwe’s attack to Sainte-Famille. It is impossible: at that time, RPF had carried out an operation and took people from Saint-Paul. The Interahamwe became angry and decided to attack all institutions. They attacked Hotel de Mille Collines, Sainte-Famille church and tried even to attack Saint-Michel cathedral.

00:32:58:03

As a commander, I already told you what I did. I was told that the doors of Hotel de Mille Collines had just been broken and that people had already been taken up to the reception desk. This was my reaction: I quickly ran from Muhima military camp to Hotel de Mille Collines. I immediately brought the Interahamwe’s attack to heel and the very gendarmes chased the Interahamwe who were taking people from Sainte-Famille church and making them enter the Procure.

00:33:49:24

Mnyakazi

You can see well that saying I headed the attack is pure lies because I was at Hotel de Mille Collines. Here are even people who saw me. I can see them here. There is Uwimana and others. I was not part of that attack; I was at Hotel de Mille Collines.

00:34:09:19

President

We would like to ask you a question Sir! Still about Saint-Michel, can you really confirm that no single individual died there? I know one who died there. His name was Semuhungu. He worked in the National Bank… I mean Banque de Kigali. I think he first worked in Banque de Kigali and shifted to the National Bank after. The man died there.

00:34:20:01

President

Okay, let’s just forget about that one. Let’s come back to the issue of Sainte-Famille. You have just confirmed that you saved people who were in Saint-Michel and Hotel de Mille Collines because the gendarmes could protect them. Why didn’t the gendarmes protect Sainte-Famille and Saint-Paul center and let such people die? Talk about that that very minor issue then we give the floor to the audience and listen to their views.

00:35:06:14

Munyakazi

I told you that the gendarmes I sent to Mille Collinnes, Sainte-Famille and Saint-Paul belonged to the Nyarugenge territory company of Kigali formation.

00:35:35:09

President

Who was in charge of them?

00:35:39:04

Munyakazi

They had the formation commander who was in charge of them. it was a unity under the command of the army staff. I told them to go and protect the population in the places I mentioned. The unity under my command in the capital was the mobile group. You should only ask me about Saint-Michel cathedral because it was in my area.

00:36:02:02

President

Do you mean that protecting Sainte-Famille and Saint-Paul were not within your duties?

00:36:05:02

Munyakazi

They were under Nyarugenge territory company of Kigali formation

00 :36 :11 :15

President

Who was the responsible?

00 :36 :15 :14

Munyakazi

Each formation had its own commander

00 :36 :17 :01

President

What was his name?

00 :36 :19 :24

Munyakazi

His name was lieutenant-colonel Kanimba. He was there temporarily but he normally belonged to Kacyiru military camp

00 :36 :32 :02

President

What about what you said that you once arrived at Sainte-Famille and Saint-Paul?

00:36:32:24

Munyakazi

Of course I did

00:36:32:24

President

You said you were going to save people the priest had recommended. And who else?

00:36:42:11

Munyakazi

On June 17th …

00 :00 :02 :07

President

Didn’t you realize anything strange?

00 :00 :05 :03

Munyakazi

I was with Father Uwimana from Hotel de Mille Collines. We went together to father Veneche’s and we carried people who were hiding at Father… Bishop Veneche’s in the pickup. This took us two rounds of times.

00 :00 :24 :06

President

Please sir! We learnt from the case of a prisoner going by the name of Rutabana that he killed one 186 people picked from the church where gendarmes settled. There was a barrier too; can you tell us that you really arrived there?

00 :00 :49 :04

Munyakazi

I arrived at Saint-Paul and Mille Collines!

00 :00 :52 :21

President

Don’t you think you can explain those things to us? I mean the 186 people killed on that day. You know… when only one person dies the whole area can get informed in one day. Did you never know anything? Explain to us!

00 :01 :14 :03

Munyakazi

I told you that I was at Hotel de Mille Collines. By the way, why are people shouting when I am explaining?

00 :01 :28 :23

President

They should keep quiet. Keep quiet! We are about to give them the floor. We only want you to explain that minor issue.

00 :01 :40 :18

Munyakazi

In the testimonies you received people said that I headed the attack! I told you that on June 17th I was at Hotel de Mille Collines. We had been fighting the Interahamwe there all along the day. From there I went with Father Uwimana to pick people from Father Veneche’s …. Bishop Veneche’s. I carried them in two rounds in my pickup. Surprisingly, MP Rugema said that I was going to kill them.

00 ;02 :23 :23

President

We have understood that. Let’s go back to Saint-Michel’s issue. You told us no single individual died there whereas there is one called Semuhungu and his family. As the commander of the area, didn’t you know that?

00 :02 :36 :01

Munyakazi

No, I didn’t

00 :02 :41 :16

President

There were your gendarmes

00 :02 :42 :22

Munyakazi

I didn’t know it

00 :02 :47 :22

President

Eeh…I got it! The man and his family died. He lived near Saint-Michel

00 :02 :52 :02

Munyakazi

According to the report I had from the priests, no one of the people who had escaped to Saint-Michel cathedral died. I was told that.

00 :03 :03 :11

President

Let’s go on! Let’s give the floor to the audience and listen to their views. You have actually talked about everything. Let’s now listen to the population; you will get their views as well

00 :03 :23 :22

Munyakazi

Allow me to add something!

00 ;03 :25 :01

President

Try to be brief

00 :03 :27 :11

Munyakazi

In a word, I would like to ask you to carefully investigate this case. Some days earlier, at the tenth anniversary July 2004, all the survivors who were living in that area praised the government authorities for having saved them. Their representative said: "you should also thank also lieutenant-colonel Munyakazi who came to us for help". You may make noise Yes, but I am not lying! The division commander who delivered the message is here himself; he might explain it to you.

00 :04 :29 :09

Munyakazi

The population said that they thank lieutenant-colonel who came to them in difficult situations. They recommended delivering the message to me. I had the message that I had saved people. I cannot understand the reason for of this trick of bringing fake accusations against me during the last days. Where does it come from?

00 :05 :05 :23

President

This is not a trial, Sir!

00 :05 :08 :02

Munyakazi

It is one because you are telling the population to come and accuse me. The very people who were praising me just some days ago!

00 :05 :16 :05

President

I did not mean to accuse you, Sir!

00 :05 :19 :06

Munyakazi

They have just thanked me and sent a message to me saying they thanked me.

00 :05 :26 :21

President

That is a good thing. Any who has done something good should be actually thanked for it. I have not said that people must accuse you. We only have to let the two sides speak. We go to the Court Panel first and listen to their views.

00 :05 :40 :07

Court Panel

You said that you gave orders. Did you give orders and did not follow them up? The problem arises there. More than 180 people died but you didn’t know it. However, we know that when a person dies of a car accident in an area, we all come to see. As a high-ranked Rwandan in the time, you should have known that. You should have known what your colleagues were doing. Tough the territory company was commanded by someone else, you had enough power yourself. You can see that we did not get the point well.

00 :06 :33 :05

President

I think that his intention was to support you and show you that we are not meant to accuse you. He also reminded you that, as a leader, you should have known the death of the people you have been asked about. That is his point. We go over to someone else

00 :06 :59 :15

Court Panel

Thank you Mister President. According to the information we have… there is a prisoner called Rutabana who told us that you usually used to come to Sainte-Famille with Father Munyeshyaka and that you were aware of all the things the prisoner could do. I want to ask you mister Munyakazi; don’t you think you might have forgotten that information and that you have just been reminded? It is also said that you might have taken some bodies and that the place where you took them is still unknown. You may also tell us about that. Thank you!

00 :07 :52 :02

Munyakazi

Thank you. I never drove that red bus. I had a white Hilux pickup. Even my driver belonged to the national gendarmerie. I never travelled in the red bus. You can see it is someone else they are talking about not lieutenant-colonel Munyakazi. Let’s forget about that; the red bus never carried lieutenant-colonel Munyakazi.

00 :08 :26 :16

Munyakazi

It carried someone else. I used to travel in a white pickup. You can see that people mentioned the name of Munyakazi whereas it was not him. I used to travel in a white bus, with which I carried priests and nuns from Sainte-Famille church. So the person who did those things wrongfully attributed to colonel Munyakazi…. That is not true Ladies and Gentlemen of gacaca court Panel. I didn’t travel in that car at all.

00 :09 :07 :11

President

This is not a trial, Sir!

00:09:08:20

Munyakazi

No this is a trial. It is being proceeded right now!

00:09:10:15

President

It is not a trial. He has just asked his question in his own way but this is not a trial.

00:09:23:21

Munyakazi

That question must remove all confusions. The red pickup people saw never carried lieutenant-colonel Munyakazi. The second thing I didn’t mention, I guess, ladies and gentlemen of gacaca court Panel, is that I see people trying to bring fake accusations against me whereas I did my best to protect them.

00:09:42:00

Munyakazi

Once Saint-Famille church was being fired at. I myself went to Sainte-Famille church to console the population. We took sick people and they went to be treated in Red Cross infirmary. Red Cross was chaired by Kayiranga in the time. I never travelled in the red car. Remove that accusation completely.

00:10:32:06

President

That is an accusation you will deal with during the trial, Sir! Of course if it is one. We have not come for trial. You should understand us; we just want to listen to and understand your testimony as you asked it yourself.

00:10:41:03

Munyakazi

You are asking me what you’ve been told though.

00:10:49:12

President

Of course they are asking you because they want to understand but it is not a trial. I go over to my colleague so that he may ask you as well.

00:10:53:04

Gacaca

Court Panel

According to Rutabana you were both in charge of distributing food in displaced people’s camp

00:11:02:17

President

You had already been asked the question. As you do not know him, however, it is okay. you may explain

00:11:07:20

Munyakazi

I told you that distributing food was not among my duties. We cannot be in war and see lieutenant-colonel Munyakazi distributing to displaced people. It is not possible at all. You can see well that he completely told lies. I told you that I gave the order to Captain Ntirugiribambe to tell gendarmes to go and bring food for displaced people to Father’s. I never distributed food. That accusation is wrong as well. Remove it too.

00:11:56:19

President

It was not an accusation. He just wanted to know. Food cannot be an accusation because everyone eats.

00:12;05:18

Munyakazi

He is saying I and the Interahamwe distributed food but a lieutenant-colonel who is in war cannot have time to distribute food to displaced people.

00:12:18:17

Gacaca

court panel

I want to ask a question. Mister colonel Munyakazi has just examples such as Mille Collines, Sainte-Famille, and Saint-Paul and he tried to help Rwandans everywhere. Probably he was doing that during the day. I would like to ask him there might be some journalists who saw that humanitarian action. Thank you!

00:12:51:12

Munyakazi

Right! About that question… do you mean Rwandan journalists or foreign ones? About that question… About that question… from 1992…from 1994… If you might have read; all books written confirmed that gendarmes contributed in saving people. All of them refused to mention that because the situation we were living. However if you read the book le droit de vivre by Hibert, you can see that book shows well that Hotel de Mille Collines was protected by Gendarmes according to the investigations. That is why people did not die there. That is what the book says

00:14:37:16

Munyakazi

There was an American who was with Gisimba’s displaced people in Saint-Michel cathedral. We had taken him from Nyamirambo and brought him to the cathedral. Even Gisimba knows that all the orphans arrived in my area thanks to the gendarme called major Karangwa

00:14:58:00

Munyakazi

Unfortunately this is not evoked. For the time being, however, people should know the action took place. When people arrived there, some were even told not to say they had been saved by lieutenant-colonel Munyakazi because he would be charged of killings later. Fortunately there are gacaca courts; you have given me the opportunity to tell you that I had given orders to the gendarmes of Hotel de Mille Coliines. I had given orders to people at Saint-Michel cathedral. I also gave orders to gendarmes to go and fetch water and bring food. You have known that too. You can see that I did not intend to plot against Tutsis

00:16:17:22

President

Yes sir, that was perfect. What you did at Mille Collines was perfect! What you did is also recognized. Just because of the power you had in the time, we get curious and worried and we are obliged to ask you questions in order to know. We would also like to ask you to stand appropriately in front of the Court Panel. This is because people fear even to ask due to your dignity. No, by standing appropriately I do not mean standing that way. ; try to speak calmly so that people might not get intimidated by your dignity. They have said you are an important person so they have much respect for you. If you feel tired you may even sit down so that they may ask you.

00:17:26;12

Munyakazi

You know Sir… may the Court Panel has not allowed me to tell you about the then structure of the army in Kigali. However, I had prepared it. I hope you will allow me that. When you check well that structure and see how I did all my best to protect the people who lived in that area …..

00:17:50:00

Yes you told me that you thank me for that! However, I do not want someone to come and wrongfully accuse me of having travelled in the red pickup, of having headed attacks somewhere whereas I was in another area. That is why I have to provide explanations to show you that the accusations presented to you are false though you are trying to talk to me in a diplomatic way that this is not a trial. I have to defend myself.

00:18:38:14

President

May be he was confused about it. If it was me, the President or any other of the Court Panel; that would really be a fake accusation and you would have won the discussion.

This is not a trial. The other one confused you; we only wanted you to spare our worries because there are things we do not know and that you might be aware of since you could go anywhere hence you have much information about what happened.

So, we want you to provide us with explanations. This is not a trial. It is neither a way we have wanted you to precede your trial. We are not even entitled with the ability to do so at all as the sector tribunal considering your personality. We give the floor to someone else

00:19:30:21

Gacaca

Court Panel

Thank you. Just out of curiosity tell me about three questions: you have been evoking MRND a bit a lot; would you please let us know which political party you belonged to? Second: you told us that you drew reports denying the accusations brought against Tutsis. So I want to ask you; as a high-ranked personality of then who could go abroad at times, how many Tutsis have you warned? Third: you told us about a man called Ntirugiribambe. Where can we find him? What was his responsibility? Thank you.

00:20:19:14

Munyakazi

The first question concerns the political party I belonged to. According to the Rwandan constitution in force till June 10th 1991, all Rwandans including you adhered to MRND. Surely it was the same for you. All people adhered to MRND. Even you because any Rwandan did.

After June 10th, the constitution accepted many political parties. Soldiers did not adhere to any political party. The second question you asked is about reports I drew and how many Tutsis I might have warned.

I drew the reports from the 1st after the presumed accomplices started being arrested. I was told to verify. I committed myself with my entire mind and told the truth. I did my best to prevent extremists from going printing other identity cards somewhere else and say later that they had been printed at Sisi Evariste’s.

00;22:48:19

I also used to talk to embassy agents who came to ask us about the situation. That is why they started putting pressure on Habyarimana in order to give up the plan of exterminating Tutsis and start releasing people. People were released. There are even people who were released. Habyarimana used to say: "do not release people anymore You should check those who are being released".

In April 1991… It would have been bad of us if we had drawn those reports and get involved in jailing Tutsis for fake accusations. I am telling you; the report served a lot because I told foreigners that we had verified and found out that Tutsis were innocent. What was the third question again? Ntirugiribambe was the territory company commander of Nyarugenge. He exiled to Zaire. I do not know where he might be right now. Thank you!

00:24:23:21

President

Let’s first listen to these people. Hold on! You will first introduce yourself, later...

00:24:29:21

President

What are your names?

00:24:32:00

Member

of audience 1

My names are Nyirangazare Marie Immaculée

00:24:43:01

President

Parents?

00:24:45:00

Member

of audience 1

Ntwarabashi Joseph and Cecilia…

00:24:49:17

President

Date of birth?

00:24:53:10

Member

of audience 1

1959

00:24:57:05

President

Place of birth?

00:24:56:23

Member

of audience 1

Kabarondo in Kibungo

00:25:02:01

President

District?

00:25:56;01

Member

of audience 1

Kabarondo

00:25:40:12

President

The province is Kibungo

00:25:07:02

President

Are you Rwandan?

00:25:08:16

Member

of audience 1

Yes Rwandan?

00:25:19:08

President

Raise your right hand and swear: I …

00:25:23:13

Member

of audience 1

I swear to God that what I was going is true.

00:25:31:03

President

You shall say the truth. Do not lie to us!

00:25:38:22

Member

of audience 1

You have already said that this information collection. I would like to remind my brother some few things I can remember.

In 1990, I do not remember the month and date, he co-presided over a very big conference I attended at Kimihurura. He was with Renzaho Tharcisse. They told us that any Rwandan living in Kigali had to return to his or her place of birth. Otherwise, they had enough soldiers in all over the country and bullets so that every Rwandan would be shot at.

Renzaho ended saying: "a word to a wise is enough!" This saying was a puzzle to us. We could not figure out what it meant. Many of us could not know what this intended to. I beg your pardon, I want to be very brief. A long time after, you, the then Gendarmerie commander, joined us somewhere in Sainte-Famille. Do you know me? Do you?

00:27:37:18

I want to give you my testimony first. You joined us in Sainte-Famille during the war. You were with your men. They were so many. Meanwhile, before the war started… you yourself and the republican guard at Kimihurura triggered off the war. When you were at Kimicanga, you ordered that all Tutsis be taken uphill. You added that you would kill even a Hutu who refused to bring them uphill.

00:28:11:08

I escaped from then. It was 2 pm. Look at me carefully. I am not wrongfully accusing you. I escaped to Kiyovu. I spent three days there. You controlled the entire city together with Renzaho and other soldiers. Even when you were still lieutenant, you would say that you commanded the gendarmerie, that all gendarmerie’s cars were yours, that all the property of the gendarmerie were your own property

00:28:56:14

You know Sir; I do not have anything against you. I would advise that you accepted all that has been said and that you consider as lies. We are many witnesses for that. You know that we only wanted to remind each other.

00;29:18:24

President

We shall give to each speaker minutes not to go beyond.

00 :29 :22 :23

Member

of audience 2

I was born in Ubumanzi cell, Rugenge sector, Nyarugenge district. Thank you.

00 :29 :28 :21

President

Wait a bit! You first raise your right hand and swear: "I, your name, swear to God that what I am going to say is true".

00 :29 :47 :08

Member

of audience 2

I, Gasasira Jean Marie Maurice, swear to God that what I am going to say is true.

00 :29 :53 :00

President

Tell the truth then!

00 :29 :56 :09

Member

of audience 2

Thank you mister President1 even though we have been given few minutes, I would like to ask to be given the same minutes as him because we are all equal before gacaca.

00 :30 :09 :17

President

In fact, he asked to give his testimony. We cannot give you the same minutes as him considering your number. Try to look behind you; there are other people. We might even receive testimonies from five people. You can see that the testimonies cannot take such a time unless you want to tell us stories from 1959 as well! In case you want, say, to evoke something wrong he did, just go straight.

00 :30 :51 :11

Member

of audience 2

Thank you mister President and you ladies and gentlemen! We are just at the information collection stage. I will only say few. I would also like to ask you to speed the proceedings because we have many accusations against him.

00:30:59:00

Member

of audience 2

Let us just give you little informat