transcript of “harsha chigurupati” -...

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Transcript of “Harsha Chigurupati”

Bulletproof Radio Harsha Chigurupati

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Speaker1: BulletproofRadio,astateofhighperformance.

Dave: Hey,it'sDaveAspreywithBulletproofRadio.Today'scoolfactofthedayisonethatalmostno

oneknowsabout.It'sthatthelongesthangoveronrecordisfourweeks,whichwassetby,youwould'veguessedthis,right?ByaScottishman.Thisisnotajoke,hedranksixtypintsofbeeroverfourdays,andhedidnothavethescientificknowledgethatthebubblierthedrink,theworsethehangover,becausethegascausesyourpyloricvalvetoopenandthealcoholmovesmorequicklyintoyoursmallintestineandbloodstream.TheScottishman'sdoctorconfirmedthisdiagnosis.Heprobablygotwhatwascomingtohim,butitiskindofafunnyfactoftheday.

Ifyou'vebeenlisteningforawhile,youknowthatI'mnotonetowastetime.Oneofthethingsthatmakesyoufeelreallygoodistolookgood,andthere'sabunchofresearchthatsaysthatwhenyoulookgood,youfeelgood,andpeopletreatyoudifferently.Youactuallymakemoremoney,andyou'llbemoremotivated.Youcanactuallyhavemoreenergywhenyoulookgood.OneofthethingsthatI'veneverparticularlybeenafanofisgoingoutandshopping.Idon'tthinkI'malone,asaguy.TheFiveFourClubprovidesasimple,affordablewaytoexpandyourwardrobe.It'sapersonalizedmemberexperience,andit'sgotdependablehow-to-wearstylesuggestions,acuratedcollectionselectedbyapersonalstylistforyou,freesizeexchanges,freedelivery,andeasystyleprofileedits,andthere'sexclusivity.

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Allright,enoughaboutthatstuff.Let'sgetintotoday'sshow,whichisaboutalcohol.Today's

guestisHarshaChigurupati.IthinkIsaidhislastnameexactlyperfectly,butI'mnotentirelysurebecausethatlastTisasoftT,andsayingasoftTisn'tthatnaturalformebecauseIalwayswanttosay"th",butIdidmybest.Harsha,welcometotheshow.

Harsha: ThanksDave.Youdidaprettygoodjobwiththelastname,andgreatseguefromtheproductontothetopicofalcohol.

Dave: I'mhappytohelp.Harsha'sontodaybecausehe'sapharmaceuticaltechnologyentrepreneurandhe'srunningaresearchcompanycalled,funnyenough,ChigurupatiTechnologies.Hiscompanyis—thisisabig,broadgoal—aidingtheevolutionofmankind.Thewayhe'sdoingthatis,aftereightyearsofresearchhe'smakinganewcategoryofalcoholicbeveragescalledFunctionalSpirits.He'scomeupwithagamechangingliver-friendlyalcoholusingamoleculecalledNTX.

Thedefinitionofbiohackingischangingtheenvironmentaroundyouandinsideofyousoyouhavecontrolofyourownbiology.Thatletsyoudowhateveryouwanttodo.Inthiscase,youwantedtodrinksomething,youdidn'twantittomakeyouagemorequickly,getmorecancer,andbasicallytrashyourbody.Well,maybehackingthealcoholisthewaytodoit.That'sgoingtobeafascinatingepisode.We'regoingtodelveintowhatalcoholactuallydoesandwhatyoucandoaboutit,thenhowyoucantakecontrolofyouralcoholbeforeittakescontrolofyou.How'sthatforatagline?

Harsha: That'sgreat,actually.Letmetellyou,it'snotveryoftensomebodysharesmythoughtofchangingtheenvironmentaroundyouasperwhatyouseefitorasperyourrequirementsversusadaptingtotheenvironmentitself.That'sexactlywhatChigurupatiTechnologiesdoes.Thegoalistoaidintheevolutionofmankind,andwedothatbasicallybyfocusingonR&Dandcomingupwithtechnologiesthatessentiallyletsyoudowhateveryouwanttodowithouthavingtopayforit.It'slikehavingyourcakeandeatingittoo.That'sthetechnologyweworkon.

Dave: I'mafanofmountinglasersinmyforehead.Ihaven'tquitegotthatyet,butI'mgoingtodoit!Justkidding.

Harsha: Oneday.

Dave: We'llgettheresomeday.Actually,I'mnotevenafanofthattobeperfectlyhonest.There'salreadylasersinmyforehead.They'recalledmitochondria.Theyjustdon'tshinethatbrightlyexceptwhenIdocertainthingstothem.

Harsha: Fairenough.

Dave: Ofallthethingsyoucould'vedone,whatmadeyougoafterNTX?Whatisthisstuff?

Harsha: Okay.Doyoudrinkalcohol,Dave?


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Dave: Onveryrareoccasions.Ifindalcoholisnotaperformanceenhancingsubstance.Ihaveawhole

infographicpeoplecandownloadwhereItalkabout,"Thisalcoholhastheleastmitochondrialtoxinsinit,theleasthangovereffect,themost..."ItendtodovodkaorlatelyDryFarmWines.Bytheway,bulletproofexec.com/winehasacoolthing,onepennyforabottleofmycotoxin-freewine.Forthemostpart,ifthewine'solderthanme,I'lltakethehit.Otherwise,Idon'treallywantto.That'skindofthegeneralanswerthere.

Harsha: Allright,fairenough.Let'sgobacktowhywedecidedtofocusonalcoholasoneofourfirstmajorprojects.Listen,nobodyinthehistoryofthisplanet,Icantellyou,wokeuponedayandsaid,"Youknowwhat?Ifeellikeruiningmylivertoday.Letmegograbadrink."Weallknowwedrinkalcoholattheendofthedaybecauseofthepositiveattributesofit,whichusuallyendsupbeingtherelaxationfactororthebuzzfactor.

Dave: Liketogetlaid,isthatwhatIheardyousay?

Harsha: That'sanextension.That'snotwhatIsaid.Iseeitcouldbeanextensionofthat,butthebuzzfactor,despitewhatyoumaysayaboutthetaste,classydrinking,whateveritis,it'sreallythebuzzfactor,therelaxationfactor.

Dave: Sure.It'sadrug,right?It'sarecreationalsubstance.

Harsha: That'susuallywhatitis.Let'scallitforwhatitis.Wedon'tdrinkalcoholbecausewewanttoessentiallymutilateourDNAorstressoutourliver.Theseunfortunatelywerebyproductsofenjoyingthealcohol,andwethoughtforthelasttenthousandyearsthatit'sjustsomethingwehadtoaccept.Thekeycamedownto,"Iwanttobeabletoenjoymyalcoholwithoutaffectingmyliver,sowhynotgoafterit?"Thisispossiblythemostunevolvedproductintheentireworld.LikeIsaid,there'sbeennochangeforovertenthousandyears.It'sjustripeforthepicking,goingafterthis.

Dave: Itisindeed.I'velookedatalcoholforalongtime,andI'mlike,"Youknowwhat?"IhitthispointincollegewhereIrealizedmyfavoriteFridaynightwasatripleespressoandasixpackofwhateverwascheapversusjustasixpackofwhateverwascheap,becauseitjustmademewanttogotosleep.ThenIrealizedatacertainpointthatatripleshotofespressoactuallymademehappierthanasixpackanyway,butthat'sbadforyoursleeptoo.They'rebothsomeofnature'soldestrecreationalsubstances,alongwithtobacco.Thosearethebigthree,andmaybeayahuascaistheotheroneifyouwanttogobacktoancienthistory.It'sprobablyripeforthepicking,I'dsay.

Harsha: Allright,fairenough.Let'sgetintowhatNTXis.Longstoryshort,NTXisatechnologythatessentiallyletsyouenjoyalcoholwithouthurtingyourbody.

Dave: I'mgoingtochallengeyouonthatone,becausealcoholdoeslotsofbadstufftothebody.

Harsha: Okay,youknowwhat?Fairenough.TheconceptofFunctionalSpiritswassuch,obviouslyNTXisnotcompletelybulletproofbutitdoesreduceitsignificantly,andwe'llgointosomeofthedata


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aswemoveforward.

Dave: I'malloverharmreduction.Let'sfaceit,peoplearegoingtodrink.Idon'tthinkevenwithNTXthatdrinkingisprobablygoingtobethehealthiestpossiblethingyoucouldpossiblydo.Myguessisthatsittinginanashramfastingmightbehealthierthandrinking,butlet'sfaceit,you'renotgoingtodoit.It'sFridaynightandyou'reoutwithfriends,soit'sokaytodrink.Whenyou'regoingtodoit,justknowwhatyou'redoinganddoitintelligently.Ibelieveyou'vegotsomecoolstuffthere.Tellmewhat'sinit,andwhatdoesitdo.

Harsha: Allright.BasicallyNTXisablendofthreeingredients:Glycyrrhizicacid,whichisessentiallyextractfromthelicoriceroot,thenthere'smannitolandpotassiumsorbate.Theseareingredientsthatarenotreallyknown,atleastthreeoftheseingredientstogether,toprotecttheliver.Yes,there'ssomedataaboutlicoriceextract,etcetera.Ofcourse,likeyousaid,it'seightyearsoftesting.Whatwe'verealizedisafterdozensanddozensofclinicaltrials,we'veessentiallybeenabletomixandmatchthesethreeingredientsincertainproportionsthatactuallyhelpsitactsynergisticallytogethertoprotecttheliver.

Dave: Thepotassiumsorbateisn'tapreservative,it'sactuallypartoftheeffectontheliver?

Harsha: Itactuallyisapartofit.Alotofpeoplethinkit'sjustthefirsttwoingredients,mannitolandglycyrrhizicacid,butno,potassiumsorbateisactuallyaveryimportantpiecetothewholecomponent.

Dave: Now,whatnormallyhappenswhenyoudrinkalcoholintheliverisitdepletesglutathione.OneofthethingsIrecommendisImakeaglutathionething.I'mlike,"Look,ifyou'regoingtobedrinking,maybeproppingupglutathionebeforeandafterisjustagoodidea,anddon'ttakeTylenolatthesametimebecausethat'sastupididea."Basicstufflikethatcanhelpyounothaveabadliver.Areyougoingbeyondtheglutathioneeffects?Areyoulookingatacetaldehyde?What'sreallygoingoninthere?

Harsha: JustbecauseyoubroughtupTylenol,let'skeepthatdiscussionforlater,becausethere'sagreatstorybehindthat.Letmefocusonalcohol,howitbasicallyworksonthesystem,andwhatNTXdoes.Asyouhadsaid,oneoftheissuesiswhenalcoholismetabolizedbecauseofthefreeradicalsinit,itdepletestheglutathione.Takingastepbackagain,it'snotreallyalcohol-alcoholthat'sreallybadforthebody,it'sthemetabolismofalcohol.Likeyousaid,alcoholbecomesacetaldehyde,thenessentiallyit'smetabolizedintoacetate,carbondioxide,etcetera.Duringthisprocess,justlikeanychemicalreactions,unwantedbyproducts,andhereduringtheinitialstages,thebyproductshappentobefreeradicals.

Alotoffreeradicalsaregenerated,andasyouandpeoplelisteningwouldknow,freeradicals,whattheybasicallydois,veryunstablemolecules,theygoandtheystealeletronswherevertheycanfind.Intheprocess,theyendupmakingthemoleculestheystealtheelectronsfromunstable.Whathappensiswhenthecellwallsbecomeunstable,thecellwallsdie,cytoplasmleaksout,causescelldeath.That,onamassivelevelontheliver,isreallywhyalcoholisbadfortheliver.


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Now,NTXhasthreemaintherapeuticactivitiesthatactuallyreducetheharmcausedbyalcoholmetabolismontheliver.NTXhascertainantioxidativeproperties.Whatthatessentiallydoesis,let'spicturizefreeradicalsassoldiersthataregoingtogoanddamagethelivercells.Theantioxidantsbasicallyneutralizesomeofthosefreeradicalsfromattackingtheliver,sothefirstpartisthere'ssomeprotectiongoingon.ThenwealsoseethatNTXhascertainanti-inflammatoryaswellasimmuno-modulativeproperties.Whatthatbasicallydoesisitactuallyhelpstheliver,butweknowtheliveristheonlyorganthatregeneratesitself.Itatuallyhelpstheliverregenerateevenquickerthanitwouldonitsown.

Usingthesethreetherapeuticactivities,we'veseeninclinicaltrialsthatweredoneallovertheworld,actually—inIndia,intheUS,etcetera—thatoverall,therewasaprotectionofoverninety-threepercentontheliverwhenyoucomparedpeopledrinkingjustavodkaversusavodkamadewithNTX.

Dave: Now,howareyoumeasuringharmreductionintheliver?What'sthemetricforliverprotection?

Harsha: WhatbasicallyhappensiswhenyougotoyourdoctorandhegivesyouLFTs,whichisyourliverfunctiontest,whathebasicallyislookingforis...Theytakeyourbloodandtheyessentiallyarelookingforcertainenzymesandthelevelsofthoseenzymesinthebloodstreamwhenyourliverisunderstress,becausebasicallythesecellsbreakout,theseenzymesleakoutintothebloodstream.Thehigherthelevelofenzymes,themoreunderstressyourliveris,andofcoursedoctorsandscientistshavebasicallytolduswhatthebaseleveliswhenyourliver'snotunderstress.

YoulookatcertainenzyemslikeALT,AST,GGT,ALP,justdifferentenzymes,andwhenyoulookatthelevelsinthebloodstream,anelevatedenzymemeansliverbeingunderthemoststress.

Dave: Okay,soit'sliverenzymetesting.Gotit.

Harsha: That'soneofthemainways.

Dave: Ibelievethat.WhenyousayvodkamadewithNTX,doyoudistillthevodkathenyoupourinsomeNTXandthat'showitworks?

Harsha: Yeah,that'sbasicallywhatitis.Themanufacturingprocessuntiltheendendsupbeingthesame.Now,thisismadeforallspiritsthatgofromthirty-fivetofifty-fivepercentalcoholbyvolume,andthestrengththeymetabolizewithversussomethinglikebeerorwineisalittledifferent.Basically,aftermanufacturing,weadditinthefinalmixingstageinthequantitythatwe'resupposedtodoitat,andessentiallyweendupfillingthebottles.

Dave: Whydon'tyoujustputitinacapsuleandtakeit?

Harsha: Well,thewaywedevelopedNTXiswedeveloepditspecificallykeepingafewlimitationsintoaccount.Firstofall,letmeputitthisway,ifyoutakeapill,thereisaverygoodchancethatyouwon'tgetthemostoptimizedeffectthereisbecausesomeofthese...Firstofall,whenyoutake


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apill,thetimingoftakingthepillversusNTXdifferentiatessignificantly.Whenyoudothat,thechancesofmisusealsoincrease.Peoplecertainlythink,oh,theycantakefive,sixpillsandthatdeliveryiscompletelybulletproofandthatyoucandrinkallthealcoholtheywanted.

Whatwewantedbasicallywasanoptimizeddosagewhichisconsumedalongwithalcoholitself.Forexample,wetalkedaboutantioxidativeproperties.Thewaythealcoholisbeingmetabolizedrightnow,andtheantioxidativepropertiesofNTXenterrightaway,neutralizingit,thingsalongthosenature,makethismoreeffectivewhichiswhythetimingisextremelyimportant,whichiswhyit'salwaysbetterifit'smanufacturedwiththealcoholitself.

Dave: Ihearyou,there.Thatmakesgoodsense.You'redealingwiththealdehydespike,ornot?Doyoumeasureacetaldehydeformation?Thiscausesadvancedglycationendproductsthroughoutthebodywhenyoudrinkalcohol.That'soneofthereasonsIwasalittleskeptical.You'vegotlessharmingtheliver,butareyouessentiallyagingtissuesthroughoutthebodywhenyoudrinkstill,orareyoudealingwiththateffectaswell?

Harsha: Well,thethingis,thesadpartisweknowacetaldehydeisacarcinogen,butatthesametime,itisalsowhatcausesthebuzzfactorthatwedrinkalcoholfor.

Dave: It'spartofit,right?There'saGABABreceptorthingthat'sgoingon.

Harsha: There'sasignificantportionofit,andthethingiswehaven'treallyhitalevelofsophisticationwherewecanplayaroundwithitwithoutaffectingthebuzzfactor.

Dave: Ifyoureducethealdehydespikethatdoescausetissueaging,butnotliverharmnow,thenpeopledon'tenjoyitasmuch.

Harsha: Exactly.Whilewedidfocusontheliverastheendproduct,NTXhasoverallprotectiveproperties,butreallyitdependsonwhichtissueswe'retalkingabout,whichpartofthebodywe'retalkingabouttoseewhattheprotectionactuallyis.Forexample,totakeitfurther,we'vealwaysfocusedontheliverasis,butinourattempttoshow...Alotofpeopleessentiallyreactbysaying,"Oh,myliverwillonlybehurttenyearsdownthelineifIdrinktoomuch.Youknowwhat?Drinkingalcoholisfinenow."Weweretryingtoeducatethem,showingthat,"Listen,withinfifteenminutesofdrinkingalcohol,yourliverisunderstress.Yes,itmaynotbedamaged,becauseifyou'relookingatactualenzymes,elevatedenzymesinthebloodstream,thenit'salreadydamaged.

Wetriedtolookatdifferentmeasurements,andwhatwecameupwithwasamethodtonotonlymeasuretheoxidativestresslevelsten-fifteenminutesafterdrinking,butalsoawaytoshowforDNAdamage.WewerealsoabletoshowprotectiveeffectsofNTXfifteenminutestotwohoursafterdrinkingalcohol.

Dave: Cool.Ifyou'repreventingtheDNAdamage,thatisrealvalue.DNAdamageisn'tahormeticstress.Ahormeticstressor,forpeoplelistening,hormesisistheideathatwhatdoesn'tkillmemakesmestronger.Sometypesofthings,likeliverstressisactuallyhormetic.Analcoholicwhodrinksallthetime,they'vetrainedtheirliver.Eventhoughthey'restillcausingharm,they've


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trainedtheirlivertobeabletohandlemoretoxin.Theycandrinkaquartofvodkathatwouldputmeunder,andtheycanhandleit,buttheDNAdamagethathappensisn'tabeneficialhormeticstress.It'sactuallyjustbadforyou.It'sthesamekindofstressthat'scausedbymycotoxinsthatalsooftentimesridealong,especiallyinundistilledalcoholslikebeeroralotofwines.Thatperspectivethoughisprettycool.

Harsha: Justaddingtoit,don'taskmewhywewerethefirstpeopleintheworldtoknowthis.Iactuallywashopingtherewasmoreresearchalreadydone,butsadlythereisn't.Untillastyear,theshortesttermstudythatwasdonehappenedtobeonethatwasdoneinSpain,andtheymeasuredtheDNAdamageafteraweekendofdrinkingandshowedtheyweresignificant.Thatwasabigdealatthatpoint.Wetookittothenextlevel,againbecausewearetryingtoshowtherealimpactofalcohol,andweactuallyshowedthattwohoursafterdrinking,theDNAdamagecouldincreaseasmuchas300%.

Dave: Veryinteresting.Thiswasyourresearch?

Harsha: Thisisallourresearchthatwedid.

Dave: Whenpeoplesay,"Oh,Idrinkalcoholbecauseit'sgoodforme..."

Harsha: Firstofall,Idon'tknowwhosays,"Idrinkalcoholbecauseit'sgoodforme."

Dave: Lotsofpeoplesayit'sgoingtostopAlzheimer's.Yougetsomeofthelessevolvedpaleoguys,"Ohyeah,Idrinkalotofredwineeveryday."It'slike,whatever.

Harsha: Iunderstandthere'salotofresearcharoundit.ThisiswhatItelleverybodyIcomeacross.Isay,"Listen,ifyoudon'tdrinkalcohol,don'tstart.Butifyouaredrinkingalcohol,yeah,it'sstupidtonotdrinkanythingbutalcoholmadewithNTXbecauseit'safunctionalspirit."That'swhatItellpeople.Don'tstartdrinkingthinkingit'sbetterforyou,butbecauseyoudrinkitanyway,findasaferwaytodrinkit.

Dave: We'reinagreement.ThelastinterviewIhadwiththeguysfromDryFarmWines,samething.He'slike,"Look,micro-dosingisawaytodothis."It'sokaytodothingsthatarefunandpleasurablethataren'tgoodforyou.Justdon'tdothingsthataresuperbadforyouthatarejustaspleasurableasthingsthatareonlyalittlebitbadforyou.That'sjustcommonsense,andwedon'tteachthatcommonsenseinschool.CertainlywhenIwasgoingtoUCSantaBarbara,whichwasvotedoneofthebestpartyschoolsonthewestcoast,Idon'tevenrememberhalfofwhatIdidtherebecauseIwasdrunk,butapparentlyIhadfun.

Harsha: Welcometotheclub,unfortunately.Thewholeideaofliver-friendlyalcoholstartedjunioryearofcollege.

Dave: Iwasabouttoaskyouthat.Howdidyoucomeupwiththisideaspecifically?

Harsha: Iwasactuallyavery,verylatebloomer.IhadmyfirstalcoholicbeveragewhenIwastwentyyearsold.Drankit,enjoyedit,anditjustsohappenedthatIstarteddrinkingwhenIwastakinga


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coupleofclassesinpharmacology.Wewerelearningaboutneurotransmittersandpharmacologyofneurons,andbasicallythefirstthingthatcametomymindwas,"Okay,Iknowthere'sdefinitelyawaytomimictheeffectsofalcoholonthebrain."Itmaynotbealcohol,butyoucanmimicitwithcertaindrugsormoleculesthathaven'tnecessarilybeendiscoveredyet.Idon'twanttostressoutmyliverormyDNA.AtthatpointIdidn'tknowabouttheDNA,itwastheliver.Whynotessentiallybeabletocomeupwiththismoleculethatmimicstheeffectsofalcoholandtrytopromoteitasanalcoholicbeverage,becauseit,likeIsaid,mimicsthesameeffects?

Atthatpointthough,IknewaboutthepharmaceuticalindustrybecauseIgrewupinthepharmaceuticalindustrymyentirelife.Myparentsownapharmaceuticalcompany.Youcouldn'thaveitasadrug.Itwouldhavetobeaseasilyaccessibleasalcoholisforittobesuccessful,whichmeansyoubasicallygotoeitheraliquorstoreorasupermarketandshouldbeabletobuythisdrink.Now,todevelopasafetyprofile,getovertheregulatoryrequirements,etcetera,sothatpeoplecangotoanystoreandbuyamoleculelikethatwhichmostprobablymightbeanewmoleculeentity,god,itwouldbebillionsofdollars.Ikindofletitgoatthatpoint.

Dave: Yougaveuponthatandyoucameupwithsomething,becausethethreeingredientsyou'reusingareallGRASingredients.GRAS,forpeoplewhoaren'tintheindustry,GenerallyRecognizedAsSafe,whichisanarbitrarydesignationfromtheFDA.SomeGRASingredientsarenotsafeandsomeare.Ifyou'remagicallyonthislist,youcansellitwithoutspendingatleastseveralmilliondollarsonlabteststoshowsomethingthatpharmacologicallyisobviouslysafe.Thingslikewaterwouldbegenerallyregardedassafe,althoughyouneverknow,theymighttakeitoffthelistassoonassomeonewantstosellitasadrug.

Harsha: Well,it'sinterestingyouwouldsaythat,becauseacoupleofyearsagotheFDA,workingwiththeTTB,cameupwithalistofsomethingthatcouldbeGRAS.Doesn'tnecessarilyhavetobeGRASinalcohol.Theydidthatwithcaffeine.Iknowwhytheydidit.SometimesIunderstanditdoesn'tmakesense,butlisten,let'snottalkaboutwhat'sethical,unethical,what'srightorwhat'swrong.Thesearetheruleswehaveinplace,andthat'sthebestguidelinethatwecanworkwith,betterorforworse.

Dave: It'stheguidelinethatifyoudon'tworkwithit,yougooutofbusiness.Evenifitpreventsyoufromdoingthethingthat'sbestfortheworld,youstillworkwithinitbecauseotherwiseyou'lldonothingfortheworld.

Harsha: Thereyougo.

Dave: AtleastintheUS,that'showitis.Thescarythingisthatit'sdifferentinCanada,it'sdifferentinEurope,andit'sdifferentineverycountry.Peoplewhodon'tknowthis,IroastBulletproofcoffeeoutsideLondonandwesellBrainOctaneintheUK.It'scalledUpgradedOctane,becauseyoucan'thave"brain"onalabelinLondon.Whatever.Idon'tknowwhy.Ihadtochangethenameofoneofourmajorproducts,whichbythewayalsoaffectsalcoholintheliver.It'ssointerestingthatyou'redealingwiththesamething,butbecausealcoholisevenmoreregulatedthankstoprohibitionalmostahundredyearsago,there'sallsortsofweirdthings.Whenyou


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crossaborder,whoreallycaresifyouhavemorethanonebottleofwineornot,buttheyaskyou,tothisday.Whodoesthisweirdcrap?

You'redealingwithevenworseregulationsthanafoodcompanyhere,andyousomehowgotaroundtheredtape.Howdidyoudothat?

Harsha: ThisiswheretheTylenolstorycomesuptosomeextent,likeweweretalkingaboutearlier.ThatalsoisasegueastohowIwasabletouseingredientstocomeupwiththisconceptinsteadofjustgoingaheadwith,forlackofabetterterm,a"synthehol"likeyouseeinStarTrekandwhatnot.Ihadthisidea;Igaveitupbecause,tobehonest,Ididn'tknowhowtomoveforwardonthat,nottomentionIdon'thaveacoupleofbilliondollarsthatIcouldjustspendhopingthiswouldworkout.Myfamily'scompanyatuallyisoneofthelargestmanufacturersofacetaminophenintheworld.

Dave: Noway!

Harsha: Yeah.Ithinknumbertwointheworld.

Dave: NowI'mtruly,trulyamused.You'rebasicallyliketheliverdeathmerchants,I'vegotit.No,I'mjustkidding.

Harsha: No,letmeputitthisway:Theproductswemakeareharmfulforthelivertosomeextent;we'reworkingonmakingitnotharmful,protectingtheliver.

Dave: Ihavetoaskyouthis:Couldyoujust,asanexcipient,pleaseinclude500mgofvitaminCandsavetensofthousandsoflivesayear?Itwouldbesoeasy.

Harsha: YouandIareexactlyonthesamepagehere,andletmetellyouwhy.Weknowthis,acetaminophendoesincreasestressontheliverandasoneofthelargermanufacturers,mypassionwasalwaystrueinnovation,notreallybusiness.Iwasnevergoingtobegreatatbuyingsomethingforadollarandsellingitfortwo.Innovationiswhatdroveme.

Dave: It'smorefun.

Harsha: Itismorefunandmorerewarding,andalsotherearemanypeoplewhoarejustbetterthanmeatbusiness,period.WhatIdidiswhenIwasworkingformyfamily'scompany,Iactuallysetasideateamofscientistsandwecameupwithaprototypeofaliver-friendlyacetaminophen.

Dave: Thatwouldbesogame-changing.

Harsha: Yes,that'swhatIhadthoughttoo.Youngeryears,naïve.

Dave: Icanseewherethisisgoing.

Harsha: Therearetwolargebrandownersoftheacetaminophendrugintheworld.


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Dave: Wewon'tnameanyofthemspecifically.

Harsha: Wewon'tnameanything.Wenttothebothofthem,showedthemthistechnology,andtheylookedintothescience,everything.Amazing,scienceworks.Answerwasno.Why?Notnecessarilythatthesciencedoesn'twork.Numberone,ifyouhavetointroduceaproductwiththistechnology,younumberoneareacceptinginfrontofthewholeworld,"Yes,whatIsoldearlierwastoxicforyou.Potentiallytoxicforyou."Secondly,itbringsupanightmareoflitigation.

Dave: Themycotoxin-freecoffeecategoryhassimilarcharacteristics.Ifyou'reabigcoffeeplayer,youdon'twanttotalkaboutthatinyourcoffee,eventhoughinEuropeit'sregulated.IntheUSit'snot,sowedon'twanttotalkaboutithere.

TheFDAjustchangedwhatthey'redoingwithTylenol.Theyincreasedtheriskwarningsandallthatstuff.Here'sthething,ifyoujustaddedvitaminCwithoutsayingawordaboutit,just,"Oh,wethoughtitwouldlowerourmanufacturingcostsbyhalfacentsowedecidedtodothis,"youwouldactuallysavesomanyliveswithoutevertakingcreditforit.

Harsha: Yeah,butyouneedtounderstand,intheFDAregulations,thewayitworksisyoujustcannottakeanover-the-counterdrugandaddsomethingtoitandsellit.

Dave: You'reright.

Harsha: There'saninnovator,youreplicatetheinnovativebrandasmuchaspossible,period.Itdoesn'tmatterifyouhaveevenabetterversionofit,asmallerversion,whateveritis.Youreplicateeverything.Youreplicatethedissolutionprofile,youreplicatethebioavailabilityprofile,everything.Youdon'tinnovate,unlessyou'regoingtobeabrandleaderitself.Tobeabrandleaderinthepharmaceuticalarena,let'snottalkaboutwhatthatevenrequires.

Dave: It'sjustthedownsideofpharmaceutical,andactuallyfoodregulation.SomeofthestuffthatI'mtryingtodowithfoodisreallyhardtodobecauseofregulations.Youwanttoputfunctionalingredientsinabeverage?Youknowwhatthat'slike."Sorry,it'snotallowedtoputginkgoinabeveragebecauseit'snotgenerallyregardedassafeinwater."Youcantakeacapsulewithaglassofwater,andthat'sgenerallyregardedassafe.Whomakestheserules?That'swhatwelivewith.

Harsha: Listen,Dave,letmeputitthisway:IreallyhadanincreasedappreciationfortheFDAafterIstarteddealingwiththeTTB.

Dave: Afteryoustartedwhat?

Harsha: DealingwiththeTTB.EssentiallytheFDAdoesnothaveoversightoveralcoholintheUnitedStates.

Dave: Ah,okay.FTB,French...No,holdon,whatisthat?


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Harsha: TheagencyiscalledtheTTB,standsforTobaccoTaxationAlcoholTradeBureau.TheywereapartoftheATF.

Dave: Oh,nice.

Harsha: They'retheoneswhoregulatealcohol.

Dave: They'vegotgunsandboots,gotit.

Harsha: Ithinktheyweresupposedtohavegunsandboots,Idon'tknowiftheystillhavethem.OnethingIcantellyouaboutthemis,trustme,youwishyouwereundertheFDAonceyoustartdealingwiththesepeople.FDA,forbetterorforworse,hascertainscientificmethodologytowhytheydothings.

Dave: Theintentisoriginallygood,Igiveyouthat.

Harsha: Theintentisgood,butwhatI'mtryingtosayisthere'satleastsomescientificbasis.It'snotthateverythingisjustarbitrary.YoucometotheTTB,thisisanagencythat'sbasicallydeclaredawaronscience.

Dave: Ibettheyloveyouafteryousaidthat.

Harsha: Trustme,they'regoingtohateme.We'vebeenfightingwiththemforayearandahalfatleastnow,god.Wewillgointothattoo,butagain,I'mverygoodatveeringpeopleofftopic.

GettingbacktowhatmademeandmyteamgoaftertheseingredientsforNTX.Duringthisconceptofaliver-friendlyacetaminophen,Ipersonallyactuallyunderstoodalittlebetterabouthowthelivermetabolizeseverything,includingacetaminophen,and-

Dave: It'sfascinating.

Harsha: Exactly.Attheendoftheday,it'sadepletionofcertainenzymesthatcausestoxicity.Alcohol,tosomeextent,it'sthesamething.Glutathione,likeyousaid,isoneoftheexamples.Givenwewereabletoachievesomethingwithacetaminophen,IactuallyputateamofscientistsasideintomyowncompanyandIsaid,"Let'scomeupwithaproofofconcept."Essentiallywhatwewantedtodowasfollowthesameapproach.Wewanttobeabletocomeupwithaliver-friendlyalcoholthatdoesnotaffectthebuzz,whichisthekeyattheendoftheday,right?Everybodyknowswhyyoudrinkalcohol.Ifsomeonesays,"Yeah,thisisanalcoholthat'sbetterforyou,"butitdoesimpactyourbuzz,you'renotgoingtodrinkit.

Weendedupresearching...Wehadaproofofconceptestablishedinaboutayearandahalftotwoyears.Conceptwenttobond.itwasn'tviablebyanymeans.Itwasn'tstable,ittastedterrible,ithadIthinkaredhuecolor,etcetera,buttheproofofconcepthadbeenestablished.Afterthat,welookedattherulesinAmerica,becausetheUSwastheplacewherewealwayswantedtolaunchthistechnology.Formepersonally,thiswasreallyasmuchahomeformeasIndiawas.Ialwayswantedthelaunchtobehere,nottomentionIwenttocollegehere.


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Dave: Thereyougo.

Harsha: Thereyougo.Iwantedthesamebarstohaveourliver-friendlyalcohol.Didthat,andwhatwe

hadrealizedwastheTTB,theagencythat'sinchargeofalcohol,doesnotletyouputanythingintoalcohol,justanythingintoalcohol.Therewerealistofaboutsixtyingredientsthatwereallowedtobeaddedintoalcohol,withthelimitsset,etcetera.Whatweessentiallydidwaswelookedatthosesixtyingredients,wetookabouttwenty-fivetothirtyingredientsoutthatweknewwouldabsolutelynothaveanytherapeuticvalue.Theotherthirtyingredientswedidn'tknowhadtherapeuticvalueattachedtoit.Weactuallyknewthattheyweren'tanyvalue,sowhatwedidwasweliterallytookthesethirty,thirty-fiveingredientsthatwereleftover,andthisiswherethelackofamazingsophisticationcomesin.Wejusttrialanderroredeverything.

Sixyearsonward,wekeptontrialerroring,trialanderroring,trialanderroringeverything.Obviouslydozensanddozensanddozensofstudies,bothexvivo,invivo.Around2012wecameupwithacombinationofthesethreeingredientswhenmixedinacertainway,becauseeventhestrengthmattersthere,hadthisamazingprotectiveeffectsofalcoholontheliver.

Dave: Verycool.Whatdoesittastelike?

Harsha: OnethingIhadlearnedfrommyfather,watchinghim,wasyounever,everwanttochangetheconsumerexperience,literally.Ifyouaskaconsumerwholikestositdowntostandup,theproduct'safailureasfarasI'mconcerned.Whatwedidwaswedideverythingpossibletomakesurethattheconsumercannottellthedifference.

Dave: Okay,soit'sveryneutral.

Harsha: Yeah,soifyoudrinkavodkamadewithNTX,youreallycannottellthedifference.Maybethere'saslightsweetness,butyoucan'ttellthedifferenceatall.

Dave: Okay,cool.Isitthesamecolor?

Harsha: Everythingisthesame.Itwasmadetoessentiallyreplacetheexistingalcoholindustry.WithNTX,basicallywhatwe'veinvented,obviouslythisprotectiveeffect,whatweinventedisacategorycalledfunctionalspirits.They'resupposedtoreplaceitwithoutchangingtheconsumerexperience.

Dave: Howdidyougetthroughtheredtapetodothat?Youmentionedthatyouweredealingwithevenfightingthisforawhile.Whatwasthepath?

Harsha: Thisiswhatwedid.Bybeingabletousetheingredientsthatwerealreadypre-approvedbytheTTB,weessentiallyhadaformulationthatwaspre-approvedbeforeweevenwentthereandaskedforapproval.Until2012,alotofthemwereanimaltrials,justbecausewefounditverydifficult,especiallyinAsiaandNorthAfricawherewethoughtthepermissionswouldbeeasier,todothesestudiesonhumanbeings.Withanimalstudieswewerethinkingaboutwhattodo,andwefinallywereabletogetacoupleofCROsintheUSthatwerewillingtodohuman


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studies,ofcourseafterethicalclearance,etcetera.

OncewehadtheseresultsofhumanstudiesthatweredoneinCaliforniaactually,wetooktheseresultswithapprovedformulas,approvedCOLAsbasically.Togiveyouabriefbackground,thewaytheapprovalprocessworksforalcoholicbeverages,youfirstgettheformulaapprovedinalcohol,thenyougetsomethingcalledaCOLAwhichisaCertificateofLabelApproval.ThatmeansyoushowtheTTBwhatthelabelisgoingtolooklikeandthentheyapproveit,andthenyou'vegotacompletelyapprovedproduct.

Dave: Becauseit'sthegovernment,andit'sabeverage,theyhadtocallitaCOLAtoavoidconfusion.Gotit.

Harsha: Ofcourse.Obviously.Wewenttothemandweaskedforameeting.Wehadanapprovedproduct,andagainsttheadviceofmyTTBconsultants...It'sthisamazingtechnologythat'ssupposedtomakehumanlifebetter.Forthefirsttimeinhistory,wehavetheabilitytodrinkalcoholwithoutimpactingourliverasmuch.Wethoughtthisagencywouldappreciateit.Wewent,wehadourdoctorsfromCaliforniaflyover,wehadourdoctorsfromIndiaflyover.Nolawyers,becausewewantedthistobeopendiscussion.Wewent,three-hourdiscussion,wesaid,"Lookatthisamazingtechnology.Thisiswhatitdoes."Afterthetwoandahalfhourmeetingorso,theysaid,"Thankyouverymuchforcoming.Giveusourpermissionsback."

Dave: Whydidthathappen?

Harsha: Theydidn'tknowwhattheywereapproving.Asfarastheyknew,theywereapprovingaflavoredvodka.ThefirstproductthatNTXwasinfusedintowasavodka.Itwasapproved,everythingwasfine,butoncetheyheardthis,theyfreakedout.Obviouslywhentheyrealizedweaskedforameeting,theydidsomeresearchonthisproduct.Ithinktheyweresurprisedanybodyevenaskedthemforameeting.Anyway,theydidthat,andwhattheyhadtolduswas,"Youknowthatthingthat'scalledNTXonthebottle?"Wewerelike,"Yes..."Theysaid,"Well,thatisgoingtocausealotofconfusionwiththeAmericanconsumer,sowewantitback."

Dave: Becausewe'reallsodumb,right?

Harsha: It'sverypaternalistic,right?

Dave: Yes.

Harsha: That'sexactlywhatitis.Whenwesaid,"Whatareyoutalkingabout?"Theysaid,"Youknowthere'sadrugcallednaltrexoneinthemarketplace,andunofficiallytherearesomedoctorswhorefertoitasNTX.Wedon'twanttheeverydayconsumertothinkthatyou'reputtingnaltrexoneinavodka,"whichmakesabsolutelynosense.

Dave: TheycallitLDN,anyonewhousesiteffectively.Comeon.Theyshouldn'tdothat.Anyway...

Harsha: Theydidthat,theyusedthatasanexcuse,andtheybasicallybulliedusuntilwegavethepermissionsbacktothem.


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Dave: Wow.

Harsha: Thisisanagencythatsaid,"Wewantitback."Wesaid,"Okay,we'lltalkaboutit."Wegotkicked

outofthemeetingbasically,andtheykeptcallingourdistillersandourlawyersuntiltheysurrenderedit.

Dave: Wow.Insteadofjusttellingyoutochangethename?

Harsha: Yeah,theywouldn'tevenhaveitbecauseweallknowtheissueisn'treallythenameatall.

Dave: DidyoueverthinkofcallingitTTBjustforfun?

Harsha: Later,weactuallydidputoneofthoseasalabel.WedidZTX,wedidTTB,wedidthestupidestthingspossible.Itwascrazy,becausewewerecompletelyshockedthatthere'sthistechnologythatevolvesanentireindustry,thattheyshouldbemorethanhappyto...Thereasonwetookittothemwastofirstofallshowtheresults,andsay,"Listen,TTB,nowthatyouknowwhatthistechnologydoes,wewanttoactuallyworkwithyouandworditcarefullysoitactuallycancommunicatethebenefitstotheconsumersbutdoesnotencouragethemtobingeonit."Theywouldn'thaveanyofit.Theyjusttookitoff,theykickedusout.

Basicallythenweendeduphavinganothermeetingwiththem.Wehadrequestedit.Wesaid,"Listen,wewanttomakesurewe'reonthesamepageagain.Wedidn'twanttomakeanyhealthclaims.Wewanttoselltheproduct,yes,butwewantedtoshowyouthesciencetoshowwhatthisreallydoes.Ninety-threepercentreductionofstressontheliver.Thinkaboutwhatthismeans."Theylookedatusandtheysaid,"Yeah,wewillneverevaluateahealthstatementfortheproduct."Forgetwhatthesciencesays.

Dave: Theyjustwon'tlookatit,soyoucan'tsayit.Welcometofreespeech,right?

Harsha: Youwillseethatinthenextfewweeks,weactuallyhaveapetitionagainstthemonthebasisoffreespeech,becausetheyactuallyarecensoringfreespeechwithabsolutelynobasiswhatsoever.

Dave: Eveniftheyhaveabasis,eitherthereisfreespeechortheirisn't.OneofthemoreshockingstatementsthatI'veexperiencedatBulletproofwasaregulatorsaidflatout,"Youarenotallowedtosaysomethingabsolutelytruthfulsupportedbyadozenstudies,"aboutoneofmyproducts."You'renotallowedtosaythat."Isaid,"Butit'sabundantlytruthful.It'sveryobvious."Hesaid,"Yes,butyouarenolongerintheeraoffreespeech.Youareintheeraofcontrolledspeech."Thisisanexactquote.I'mlike,Ididn'tevenknowwhattosay.WhereI'mfrom,youactuallysaythingsastheyare.

Tothisday,IhaveseveralpeoplewhoworkforBulletproof,andwe'restillareallysmallcompany,andIputmostofmyeffortintomakingreallygoodstuffandtheninterviewingpeoplelikeyouandwritingbooksandsharingknowledge,buttherearetwoandahalfheadcountatBulletproofdedicatedtomakingsurethatwedoeverythingrightfromaregulatoryperspective.


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Wedoagoodjobonit,becauseit'spartofbeingasuccessfulcompanyinthisspace,butthecostofdoingthatisverymeaningful.Itmeansthatwhenyoubuysomethingatthestore,ameaningfulpercentageofeverydollarthatyouspendonfoodwentintothisspeechbubbleprocess.

Everythingyoureadonthelabelofeveryproductthatyoureadhasgonethroughmultiplelevelsofcensorshiptothepointthatoftentimesyouseemeaninglessstatementsonlabels,likesupportsahealthysomething.Whattheyactuallywantedtosaywas,"Therearefourthousandresearchstudiesthatsaysthatthisisgoodforyouinthisspecificway,butwe'reafraidtosaythatbecausewemightgetputoutofbusinessarbitrarily."It'sanuntenablecircumstance.Itincreasesfoodcostsandalcoholcostsdramaticallyforeveryone,andit'stotallyinvisibleunlessyou'reintheindustry.It'sprettyscrewedup,actually.

Harsha: Increasingcosts,let'snotevengothere.Atthispoint,thingshavegottensoridiculousthatjustthelegalcostsofbeingabletokeepthisstrugglegoing,Ithinkwewouldhaveatleastspenttwenty-fivetothirtypercentofourentiretenyearbudgetonjustlegalexpenses.

Dave: Mygod.Whatwasthedevelopmentcost,ifthat'spublic?Haveyouspentmillionsandmillionsofdollarsonthisstuff?

Harsha: Tensandtensandtensofmillionsofdollars.

Dave: Wow.

Harsha: Youneedtounderstand-

Dave: Bytheway,nostartuponearthwouldhavebeenabletodothat.Youdidthisbecauseyou'reworkingwithlargepharmaceuticalassetsbehindyou,right?

Harsha: Well,yeah,IwasabletoputthemintoChigurupatiTechnologies,essentially.Whatitcamedowntowas,you'reright,nostartupdoesitandit'sactuallystupidtodoit,nowinhindsight.Whenweoriginallystartedthisinlate2005,early2006,webudgetedlikefivemilliondollarsorsomething.Wesaid,"Okay,we'llgetdone,"andthenit'soverquintupled,morethanthatsincethen.It'dridiculous.Iwouldsaytherewasquiteabitofnaivetethatgotustothislevel,really.

Thethingis,thereasonitreallyendedupbeingasexpensiveasitisisbecause,youknowthis,humanclinicaltrials,properoneswithjusttensubjectsforexample,goesnorthofliketwomilliondollars.You'retalkingabouttenyearsofdoingthis,you'retalkingaboutwithdozensofhumansubjects,dozensoftests.Itgetsridiculous.Becauseofmylearningpersonallyfromthemulti-nationalpharmaceuticalcompanies,Ihadlearnedthatifsomethingwasgoingtobetruly,trulydisruptive,you'regoingtogetshutdownrightaway.

Dave: Itseemstobethecase.

Harsha: That'swhatIhadlearned.Whatwedidwaswehadtomakethisprocessasbulletproofaspossible,leaveabsolutelynochinkinthearmoratall.Wedeveloepdthisinthesamewayany


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sophisticatedpharmaceuticalcompanywoulddevelopadrug.Saywhatyouwillaboutthepharmaceuticalindustry,aboutwhatdrivestheiractions,theydohavethebestscientificprotocolsontheplanet.

Dave: Whentheyfollowthem.Wehavethingslikefen-phenwhere,like,oops.

Harsha: That'swhyIsaid,forgettheintentions,forgeteverythingelse.Wearetalkingabouttheintegrityofthetechnologyitself.

Dave: Agreed.Whentheyfollowtheirownrules,itworks.I'llgiveyouthat.

Harsha: Itisamazing.Listen,whentheysaytheydon'tknowsomething,theyknowit.Youknowthis,Iknowthis.

Dave: Right.

Harsha: Becauseofthat,theearlystage,firstyearandahalf,webasicallydidthepilotstudies,thenwewentintoexvivo,invivo.Webasicallydidabunchofanimaltrials,phaseone,phasetwo,phasethree,thenwecameouttohumans,etcetera.Asthecompanywasdoingthis,youknowthecostofdevelopingnewdrugs.They'rebillionsofdollars.Becausewedidn'tdoitforadrugwithunknowntoxicitiesbutfornaturalingredientsandwejustwantedtoprovethetherapeuticvalueofthisproduct,Iguesswecansaywekindofgotawayalittleluckyintermsofthebudgetaspectofthings,butitwasstillprettyridiculous.

LikeIsaid,thistechnologywasmadetoreplaceanentireindustry.That'sa1.2trilliondollarindustry.Youhavetodo-

Dave: It'snoteventoreplaceit.You'restillmakingalcohol,you'rejustaddingthisingredienttomaketheindustrymoreeffective,tobehonest.

Harsha: Iagreewithyou,butthenalotofpeoplewhodon'thavethetechnologywillsayit'sreplacingit,it'sacompletelybrandnewcategory,andthey'lltrytokickusoutaccordingly.

Dave: It'sanewcategory,sure,butnewcategoriesarethenatureofdisruption.Thebigguys,they'regoingtosayyou'relying,they'regoingtofightwithyou,andeventuallythey'llsayitwasobviousandthey'vealwaysdoneit.

Harsha: Whoknowswherethisisgoingtogo.

Dave: Ifyou'vereadhistory,likelythat'swhathappens.

Harsha: Letmeputitthisway,you'reright,it'snotreplacinganentireindustry,it'sanevolutionofanindustry.Justlikewhencarscamealong,therewerestillinthetransportationbusinessjustlikehorsecarriages,buttheywereanevolution.You'reright,we'restillinthealcoholbusiness,butfunctionalspiritsisanevolution.Basicallywhatitmeansisyoushouldbeabletodrinkwithouthurtingyourbody.We'reintheinitialstages.It'snotbulletproofyet,butwe'llgetthere.


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Dave: Ilovethatyou'redoingthat,andIreallyappreciatethestoryofhowyouendeduptaking

pharmaceuticaltechniquesandfranklypharmaceuticallevelsoffundingtosolveaproblemthatisn'tthathardtosolveonpaperbiochemically,buttoactuallysolveitlegallyandregulatorilytothepointyoucansaywhatitdoes.What'sthestatusofthisnow?Peoplelisteningtothisareprobablygoing,"Allright,howdoIdrinksomeofthis?"Infact,Iwouldsaythisaudience,peoplelisteningrightnow,areprobablysomeofthemoreenlightenedalcoholconsumersoutthere.Look,weacknowledgewewanttoperformwell,weacknowledgethat,yeah,we'regoingtohavefun,butwedon'twanttopaythecostofhavingfunifwedon'thaveto.Canyoubuythisnow?Iknowyou'reworkingwithBellionVodkaisthiswhat’sgoingon?

Harsha: Lalalalalala!I'mnotlisteningtoyou.I'mnotlisteningtoyou.Letmetellyouwhy.Bytheway,theTTBessentiallywentoutandputablanketbanonustalkingaboutNTX,period.Forgetiftheyconstitutionallyhavetheabilitytoornot.IamabletotalktoyouasthefounderofChigurupatiTechnologiesandNTXbecauseit'sNTXandI'mprotectedbyfreespeech,andNTXisnotcommerciallyavailableintheUnitedStates.IfIevermentionaproductthathasNTXinit,I'mnolongerprotectedbyfreespeechanditbecomescommercialspeech.That'showtheygetyou.

Dave: Oh,Iunderstand.Wewillnot,atleastyouwillnotsayanywords-

Harsha: Iwillnotsayit.

Dave: -aboutanyonelikeBellionVodka,whoissellingNTXproducts.Iunderstandthatyouhavenoideawhetheranyoneevendoessellit,right?

Harsha: Well,okay,wesupplytheproductandthetechnologysoweknowpeoplesellitintheUnitedStates.Icanalso-

Dave: What?No,no,theycan'tpossibly!Googledoesnotexist.ThepeoplewhoGoogleNTXandalcohol,Ihavenoideawhatthey'llfind.I'mtotallywithyou,Harsha.

Harsha: Waitaminute,Google?What'sthat,Google?

Dave: It'sfunny.Likewise,youshouldneverGooglewhattheingredientsinBrainOctanedowhenyoudrinkthemwithalcohol.Youjustdon'twanttodothat.

Harsha: It'scrazy.Thewholebureaucracyofitisjustridiculous.Yes,productsmadewithNTXareavailableintheUnitedStates.Ibelievethecompanywillberollingitoutalloverthenationthisyear,butIthinkthey'reavailablerightnowinaboutfivestates,Massachusettsbeingoneofthem.I'monlydefinitelysureofMassachusettsbecauseoneofmygoals,Itouchedonthisbefore,wastogetthevodkamadewithNTXintothesameliquorstoresthatIusedtobuymyalcoholfrominBostonwhenIwasincollege.

There'sthisplacecalledBlanchardsthateverykidwhogoestoBostonUniversitybuystheiralcoholat,andoneofmyfirstgoalswastogo,andIsawitthere.Thatwasagoodday.


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Dave: That'sawesome.

Harsha: WhenIwasincollege,that'swhatIwanted.

Dave: Now,whenpeopledrinkthis,dotheygetahangoverthenextday?

Harsha: Theconceptoffunctionalspirits,yes,isdeveloepdtotakeawayallthenegativeaspectsof

drinkingalcohol,whichwouldbehangover.ThiscurrentversionofNTX,wefocusedcompletelyontheliver,andofcoursebecauseitworksonamicro-cellularlevel,theDNA.Whatwewantedtofocusonwas,numberone,makingsureallthatwasprotected,thatpeople'sbodieswereprotected,beforewecameupwithanythingthathadtodowithhangoverbecausethenyoudidn'twanttobeinaposition,andit'salsounethical,thatpeopleweredrinkingmorebecausetheywouldn'tgetahangover,buthurtingtheirbodies.Itissomethingweareworkingon.I'mhappytosaywehavetheproduct.Wearefinishingsomeclinicaltrialsonit.Itwillbeoutinacoupleofyears.

Dave: IcantellyouforthelastfifteenyearsI'veseencompaniesoverandovercomeandgo,andtheycallthemselvesharmreduction.Pillsyoucantakeforafterpartying,andpillsyoucantakeforaftertakingecstasy,andpillsforafterallsortsofdrugsandalcohol,andnoneofthecompaniesevergoveryfarbecausepeoplegenerallydon'tliketoacknowledgethefactthattheyareharmingthemselveswhentheydosomethingthatfun.I'mworkingtobreakthatthingthatsays,"Look,mostthingsyoudoprobablyaren'tthatgoodforyou."

Ifyoujusthaveaspectrumandyouknowwhatyou'redoing,andyouknowhowgooditisforyou,howpleasurableitisandhowharmfulitis,andthemechanismofharm,thenyoucanchoose.Youcandialinwhereyou'regoingtobe.Ithinkthatwe'refinallymakingheadwaythere,wherethereisamarketforpeoplewhosay,"Yeah,I'mgoingtodrink.Iwanttofeelgood,Idon'twanttofeelbad."Insteadofbeinglike,"I'mtoughenoughtotakethehit,"it'slike,"Actually,I'menlightenedenoughthatIjustdon'twanttotakethehit.I'msureIcouldtakeit,butwhywouldI?"It'sthatmindsetchangeiswhatenablesthiskindofdisruptioninthemarket.

Harsha: Youaskedmeearlieraboutwhywedidn'tjustmakeitinapill.Itoldyouthetechnologicalreasonswhywedidn'tdoit.Theotheraspectalsohastodowiththeconsumerexperience.Again,oneofourgoalsatChigurupatiTechnologiesis,likeIsaid,toevolvemankind.Thatmeansthattheproductshouldbeavailableformainstreamuse,foreverybody,anditshouldnotchangetheirhabits.Ifyoutellaconsumer,youtrytofirstofallexplaintohimthekindofharmalcoholcancauseontheliverandthenyousay,"Here,takethispillbeforedoingit,"heisnotgoingtodoit.Whichiswhyweputitinthealcoholitself.Whetherhewantstoornot,whenhedrinksthealcohol,heisalreadybeingprotected.

Dave: Ihearwhatyou'resayingthere.Thisisafascinatingstory,andIknowthatpeoplewhoarelisteningcaneasilyandquicklyGoogleNTXandalcoholandfigureoutexacltywheretheycangooutandgetthisstuff.InfactImightevenbeableto,because,hey,Ihavenobusinessrelationshipwithyouwhatsoever,soI'mallowedtosaywhateverthehellIwant.I'llputsomelinksintheshownotestowherepeoplecanfindthiskindofstuff,whichisreallycool.


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I'mstillgoingtosaydrinkingisn'tahealthbenefit.Itjustisn't.However,ifyouweregoingto

drink,havingsomeofthisstuffintheresoundslikeagoodidea.Havinganyofthecompoundsthatprotectyoufromthesethings,includingalittlebitofvitaminCandalltheotherstuffthatareontheBulletproofAlcoholRoadmap,andI'llputalinktothatintheshownotestoo.Anyofthatstuffisgoingtohelp.Sure,ifyou'regoingtoparty,justreducewhatitdoestoyourbody.Haveagoodtime.There'ssuchagoodargumentforthat.

Harsha: Thekeytherebeingifyoudon'tdrinkalcohol,don'tdrink.That'sjuststupid.Ifyou'redrinkingalcohol,yes,youshoulddrinkfunctionalspirits,basically.

Dave: There'snoreasontostart.Although,actuallythereisareason.It'soneofthosethings,it'slikehavingareallygoodcheesecake.There'sbadstuffincheesecake,butthere'sapleasurablething.There'svalueinpleasure,andit'snotlikeaguiltyvalue,either.Ifyouhaveanoccasionalsmallamountofalcoholbecauseyoulikeitorbecauseyoulearntolikeit,orbecauseyouwanttotryit,Idon'thaveaproblemwiththat.Ifyou'redoingaglassofredwineeverynightbecauseyouthinkit'sgoingtomakeyoulivelonger,you'redoingitwrong.

Harsha: Exactly.Thethingis,it'sfinetodrinkalittlealcoholeverysooften.It'scompletelyfineifyouenjoyit,andit'sasociallubricant.Therearemanywaystoderivepleasureandalcoholisnottheonlyway,whichiswhyIwouldn'tsay,"Oh,youwanttoderivepleasureinthisfashion?Godrinkalcohol."No.Ifit'swhatyoualreadydoandyoulikeit,yeah,don'tchangeyourlifestyle,justdothisinasaferway.

Dave: You'readvocatingporn,isthatwhatIheard?

Harsha: Isthathowyouheardit,Dave?

Dave: Thereyougo,turnitrightbackonme.Totallykidding.You'reright,therearemanywaystoderivepleasure,andmanyofthemarenotallwholesome.We'llputitthatway,butit'skindoffunny.Iappreciatewhatyou'redoingwiththis,andIsupportyouinyourfighttobeabletostatewhatyourtechnologydoes.

Harsha: We'recallingitafighttoevolve,becauseevolvinganindustryandbeingabletocontrolourenvironment,nothavingtobeaservanttowhatpeoplecallnature,isapartofevolution,technologicalevolution.TheTTBhasbeentryingtoblockit,andwe'regoingtofight,andwearegoingtowinattheendoftheday.Yousaidsomethingearlieraboutusnotbeingabletotalkaboutthebrandthathasit,etcetera.It'sjustsadandreallyunethicalthatwehaveatechnologythatprotects,andwecan'ttalkaboutit.

Igetit,therearepeopleouttherewhomakenovelclaimsthatarecompleteBS,andyouragencieshavetobetheretoprotectconsumersfromit.Igetthat,butwhenyoudevelopaproductinalltherightways,inthemostpessimisticmannerpossible—pessimisticmeaningpeoplearegoingtotrytocomeafteryousoyouhavetomakesureit'scompletelybulletproof—andtheyblockyoufromcompletelysayingit,it'sjustterrible.That'sthereasonwehaven'trelentedyet,becausewe'veactuallyearnedtherighttobeabletoeducateconsumersonthe


22

harmsofalcoholandwhythisisthebetterwaytodoit.Weactuallyarethefirstofitskindintheworld,Igetthat.Weactuallyarefilingtheworld'sfirsthealthpetitionforanalcoholbeverage,whichisneverbeenevenheardof,inAmericanextweek.

Dave: I'llpostalinktothatonFacebookandseeifwecangetsomeattentionforyouguys.

Harsha: Thatwouldbegreat.

Dave: We'reoutoftimeontheshow,butIwanttoaskyouthequestionI'veaskedeveryguestontheshowexceptepisodeseventy-something,whereIforgotonetime.Notenoughcoffeethatday,obviously.Ifsomeonecametoyoutomorrow,Harsha,andtheysaid,"Look,IwanttoperformbetterateverysinglethingIdoinlife.WhatarethethreemostimportantthingsIneedtoknow?"Whatwouldtellthem?

Harsha: Ohmygod.Iwouldn'tevenknowhowtoanswerthat.Themostimportantthing,obviously,istounderstandhoweverythinginthebodyworks.Firstofall,getwhatthebaselevelis,howthepharmacokineticsofsomethingactuallyis.Onceyouunderstandthat,youcanstartimprovinguponit.First,understandthebaseline,andthenunderstandwhatthemarkersaretoevengetstartedontheprocessofimprovingthem,whateveritmaybe.Ialwaysgobacktobiology,thebody,andthat'swhatI'mtalkingabout,butanything,really.Ifyouwanttoimproveuponsomething,firstdecidewhatthebaselevelisthatyou'reat,whatarethedifferentmarkersyouhavetomeasuretoknowifyou'redoingbetterorworse,andthengetastrategyinplaceandgoaheadandachieveit.

Dave: Allright,thatwasone.

Harsha: Oh,okaygreat,thankyou.I'mgoingtosticktoone.Idon'tknow,it'sjustavery,veryopenanswer.AllIcansayisonethingthat'sdefinitelyworkedformeiscomplete,unwaveringfocus,andIliketocompareittoahorsewithblinders.Knowwhatyourgoalisandkeepgoingtowardsit.Opportunitiesarealwayscomingalong.Ignorethem,becauseifyoukeepjumpingtoopportunities,younevergetyourgoalintoplace.Also,ifyou'relookingatopportunities,youareletting,again,natureorthemacro-environmentkindoftellyouwhattodo,whereasifyoualreadyhaveagoalandyou'regoingtogoafterthat,nomatterwhat,you'recreatingyourownopportunity.

Dave: Beautiful.Thatwastwo.I'menjoyingthis.

Harsha: Youknowwhat?Benaïveandstupid.Beverynaïveintothinkingthatyoucanactuallyachievesomethingrealinthisworld.Asyougodownthepath,youwillrealizehowmuchmoredifficultitis,butthefactthatyou'restartedandyou'realreadyintoitjustmakesitharderforyoutoretreat.

Dave: Gotit.Alittlebitofstrategicnaiveteisagoodthing.

Harsha: I'vedefinitelyansweredthisquestioninthemostunelegant,non-directwaypossible.


23

Dave: Ithinkyoudidreallywell.FirstyoudidtheMBAanswer,whichisdefinesomething,measureyourgoals.Thatwasthesmartkindofthing.Thenyou'relikeyou'vegothavefocus.Allright,that'sagoodanswerthere.ThethirdoneisananswerIhaven'theardbefore,butit'sagoodone.Justbealittlebit-

Harsha: Naïveandarrogant.

Dave: Yousaidstupidandnaïve,butyoumeantalmostjustlikewillingtodosomethingbig,somethingthatnoonethinksispossible,whichactuallyisn'tstupid.It'scourageous,thewayIseeit.

Harsha: To-mah-to,tomato,potato,po-tah-to.Yeah,Icallitarrogance,youcallitconfidence,butitallendsbeingthesamethingattheendoftheday.It'sjustalabel.

Dave: OneofmyfavoriteguysontheplanetisPeterDiamandis.I'mfortunatetobefriendswithhimandtogetoccasionaltimetojusthangoutandtalk,andthisisaguywho'slike,"Yeah,privatespacetravel,weshoulddothat.Yeah,miningasteroids,weshoulddothat."Dude,that'ssocool!Samething,peoplethoughthewasnutsfortenyears,andnowhe'sdoingit.

Harsha: That'samazing.

Dave: Thatsortofthing,itisrequiredtodothebigdisruptions,sokudosforyouranswer.Thankyou.

Harsha: Thankyouverymuchforthat.

Dave: Forlistenerswhowanttolearnmoreaboutwhatyou'redoing,isthereanywherebesidesGoogleforNTXthattheyshouldgo?

Harsha: AllIcansayisfollowvery,verycloselythehealthpetitionthat'sgoingtobefiledinDConApril13th.Thepetition,weintendtocompletelyputitallonthetablewherewetalkaboutexactlyhowNTXworksonthebody,thebenefitsofit,etcetera.I'mtoldthatthepetitionwe'refilingisgoingtobeonefeetthick,andit'sgoingtobeapressconference.Everyone'sgoingtobethere.Ifyoufollowit,Ibelieveyouwouldhaveaccesstoenoughscienceoutthere.

Dave: BesuretosendmealinktothatwhenthepetitiongoesoutandI'llputituponsocialmedia,becauseIthinkBulletproofRadiolistenersandpeoplewhofollowusonFacebookandInstagramandeverywhereelse,they'llbegenuinelyinterestedinthissortofthingandtheabilityforanycompanyoranypersontotalkaboutscienceinthecontextofwhattheydoforaliving.Ithinkit'smeaningful,andIwishyouluckinyourworkthere.That'sreallycool.

Harsha: Thanksalot,Dave.Alwaysgoodtohearsomeonewhoisaprotagonistoftechnologicalevolution.Hey,attheendoftheday,evolutionalwayswins,soit'sahurdlewe'llgetover.

Dave: Itdoesindeed.ThanksHarsha.Haveabeautifulday.

Harsha: Thankyousomuch.Youtoo.Bye-bye.


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Dave: Ifyouenjoyedtoday'sepisode,youknowwhattodo.HeadonovertoBulletproof.comandresubscribeforyourBulletproofCoffeepacket,orgoonovertoiTunesandsay,"Hey,Ienjoyedthisshowalot,"andsendittoafriendorgiveusagoodrating.Dosomethingtogiveback.Itotallyappreciatethat.Whileyou'reatit,ifyou'regoingtodrink,headonovertoGoogleandlookaround,andseewhereyoucanfindalcoholthatcontainsNTX,whichisthisnewingredientthatcouldmakethealcoholabetterchoicethanplainalcohol.We'llalsoincludelinkstoallthisstuffinthetranscriptshere,andI'dalsoencourageyoutolookattheBulletproofAlcoholRoadmap.It'sentirelyfree.Youcandownloadit,andittalksaboutalcoholsthatarelowerintoxinsandhigherintoxins,andthingsyoucandotomitigatetheeffects.IthinkI'llhavetoupgradethatstufftotalkaboutNTX.

Haveanawesomeday.

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