Queensland

Parliamentary Debates [Hansard]

Legislative Assembly

WEDNESDAY, 23 MARCH 1949

Electronic reproduction of original hardcopy

Traffic Bill. [23 MARcH.] Questions. 2205

WEDllESDAY. 23 MARCH. 1949.

Mr. SPEAKER (Hon. S. J. Brassington, FOTtitude Valley) took the chair at 11 a.m.

QUESTIONS.

RAILWAY CONVENIENCES FOR FLOOD-BOUND PASSENGERS.

Mr. BURROWS (Port Curtis), for Mr. KEYATTA (Townsville), asked the Minister for Transport-

'' Will he make provision for shower baths and sanitary facilities at the various railway stations in ~u.eensland for the use of passen­gers who al'e held up by floods and cyclones~ ' '

Hon. J. LARCO:MBE (Rockhampton­Treasurer), for Hon. J. E. DUGGAN (Toowoomba), replied-

' 'When trains are held up at stations because of flood conditions special arrange­ments are made to augment sanitary ser­vices in c11~es in which the facilities at the stations are inadequate. At all stations where shower baths are provided at refreshment rooms these are made avail­able to the passengers on the trains, and at other stations, wherever possible, arrangements are made for passengers to use showers which may be available at quarters, &c. Arrangements also have been made on occasions for passengers to use showers at hotels. During the recent cyclonic disturbance trains had to be held up at stations where it is not usual to hold them in such circumstances. The hon. member may be assured that it is the desire of the Railway Department that passengers delayed in such circumstances should suffer as little inconvenience as possible, and all reasonable steps to that end will be taken. ' '

DUMPING OF MULLET.

:Mt·. WANSTALL (Toowong) asked the Secr~'tary for Labour and Industry-

' 'In, view of the large-scale dumping of catche·a of mixed mullet recently reported from Wynnum, will the Government con­sider reiaxing regulations in order to permit fishermen to dispose of their catches locally, thus preventing this disgraceful wastage of food in a world faced by starvation~''

Hon. V. C. GAIR (South Brisbane) replied-

' ' I am advise.'\ by the Acting Chairman of the Fish BoarCl that there has been no large-scale dumping of mixed mullet recently at Wynnum. 'fitq only dumping there of mixed mullet known to the Fish Board was done by the :fisherman who caught it, after the manager of the Fish Depot had refused to accept it, as it was, in his opinion, unfit for human consump­tion. The estimated quantity was about 500 lb.''

2.206 [ASSEMBLY.] Questio1'1i8.

RESIGNATION OF CHIEF W .ARDER 81

MPSON,

Mr. AIKENS (Mundingburra) asked the Attorney-General-

'' 1. Following a vi!Jit to Stuar" Prison by the Deputy-Comptroller of Prisons, Mr. Kerr, about 8 February, did Mr. A. H. Simpson, chief warder at the pri&on, tender his resignation 1

"2. On or about 17 February, did Mr. Simpson wire the Comptroller of Prisons, withdrawing such resignation, and asking for a full inquiry into the circumstances surrounding same~

"3. On 17 March did the G· •vernor in Council accept the resignatior, of Mr. Simpson notwithstanding t.h _ ~pplications made on 17 February and 11 March by Mr. Simpson and myself to him, asking for an inquiry in~o the circumstances surround­ing the resignation and also into the administration of the Stuart Prison~

'' 4. What caused the delay in reaching a decision as to whether or not Mr. Simpson 's resignation was to be accepted, and whether or not an inquiry was to be granted~

'' 5. Why did the Government not agree to hold an inquiry into the a<i,11inistration of this prison~''

Hon. D. A. GLEDSON (Ipswich) replied-

" 1. Yes. Mr. Simpson wrote this explanation of his resignation, dated Feb­ruary 9, 1949:-

'My reasons for doing so as I have the opportunity to benefit myself in another position. I would like this resignation to take effect from the above date (February 9).' "2. Mr. Simpson telegraphed the Comp­

troller-General of Prisons under date, February 17, 1949:-

'Now desire withdraw my resignation dated February 9 and demand full inquiry all circumstances.' '' 3. Yes, as the hon. member well lmows

from my letter to him, dated March 17, 1949.

"4. There was no undue ilday. See Public Service Regulation 54.

"5. The suggested inquiry is hOt necessary.''

EMERGENCY SUPPLIES OF GALYANISR:D IRON.

Mr. NICKLIN (Murrumba-Leader of the Opposition) asked the Premier-

'' 1. Is it a. fact that galvanised iron was recently supplied, to meet emergency con­ditions, as follows :-To the townships of Bororen and Miriam Vale about 2 tons, and to the townships of Yarwun and Targinnie about 3 tons~

'' 2. If so, WRS any iron supplied for the same reaoon to primary producers in ~he Shires of Miriam Vale and Calliope, and, 1f not, why noH"

Hon. V. C. GAIR (South Brisbane­Secretary for Labour and Industry), for Hon. E. M. HANLON (Ithaca), replied-

'' 1. Three tons of galvanised iron were supplied to Y arwun and Targinnie, and 30

sheets have been despatched to Bororen to meet emergency conditions following the recent cyclone,.

'' 2. Galvanised iron has been or is being made available to meet all requests for the restoration of residences in the Gladstone district, including the Shires of Miriam Vale and Calliope. ''

PROSPECTING FOR CoAL, NEBO.

Mr. NICKLIN (Murrumba-Leader of the Opposition) asked the Secretary for Mines-

'' 1. What persons or associations of persons are engaged in prospecting opera· tions for coal in the N ebo district~

"2. Under what legal permit or title are such operations being conducted and under what legislation~''

Hon. W. M. MOORE (Merthyr) replied­" 1. Drilling operations in the N ebo dis­

trict are being carried out by Electric Supply Corporation (Overseas) Limited.

'' 2. The operations are being conducted in pursuance of The Electric Supply Cor­poration (Overseas) Limited Agreement Act of 1947."

AIR TRANSPORT OF FOOD TO WEST.

Mr. KERR (Oxley) asked the Premier-'' 1. Was he correctly reported as

ing that he would not consider flying fruit and vegetables to wealthy station­owners in the West~ If so, does this repre­sent his Government's considered policy on easing the bmden for those in the F~n· Wesd

'' 2. Will he consider approaching tl·e Commonwealth Government in ordet> to inaugurate an emergency air-lift to bring fresh foods containing necessary vitamins for women and children in areas isolated by flood conditions~"

Hon. V. C. GAIR (South Brisbane­Secretary for Labour and Industry), for Hon. E. M. HANLON (Ithaca), replied-

'' 1. and 2. The hon. member for Oxley !ias · not shown during the period he ha"s 'Jeen a member of this House that he is more capable than the hon. member for Grego1·y of looking after the interests of western people. Tiie tou. member: for Gregory knows the channel country inti­r,ately, he knows the people there, and he I1as expressed himself as quite in accord with what the Government is doing to see that supplies of essential foodstuffs are maintained in that area. The Government is obtaining regular reports from police o:ftieers stationed in the area as to the stocks held of what are considered to be baBic foodstuffs. Where reports indicate that stocks are not adequate to meet the demand, action has and will .continue to be taken to replenish these stocks. Last week a Dragon aircraft was chartered by the ~overnment to fly flour, salt, butter, bak­mg powder, and yeast to Windorah.

Electoral Districts Bill. [29 M~A:RCH.] Electoml Districts Bill. 2307

Mr. Speaker's electorate of Fortitude Val /· It goes right out to Kedron. It comes to the boundary of Windsor but does not 1 ".tke in Windsor. It does not take in the Windsor State school, the railway station or Windsor proper, nevertheless it is called the Windsor electorate. I understand that unde1 the new scheme Breakfast Creek is to come .Jut of my electorate and I get back Winduor in order to make a strong seat for my party, because the Government know that they can never again win the \Vindsor electorate. But the alteration will make the Fortitude Valley seat strong. That is common knowledge.

Mr. Roberts: Where did you get that?

Mr. PIE: I can tell the hon. member about Nund.ah because we have discussed the matter. He knows what is to happen in the Nundah electorate. (Governrnent interjec­tions.)

Mr. SPEA:lli;R: Or d. er! Mt-. ROBERTS: I rise to a point of

order. The hon. gentleman said I knew what was going to happen to the Nundah elr~ctorate. That is incorrect. To my know­'wdge, no member of this House knows what i~ to happen in his particular electorate, and I ask the hon. member for Windsor to with­draw that statement. (Renewed inter­jections.)

Mr. SPEAKER: Order! Hon. members must obey my call to order. If my call is not obeyed, sooner or later I will ~ake drastic action. The hon. member for Wmd­sor will have to accept the denial or assur­ance of the hon. member for Nundah on the point raised.

Mr. PIE: I will accept his denial but I will draw a map to show where these electoral boundaries are going to be. I know exactly wl~ere they are going. ~ kn.ow what is happemng. We have on this Side the bits of news in regard to the new elec­torates.

Mr. Hanlon: What else do you know? (Government interjections.)

Jir. SPEAKER: Order!

Jllr. PIE: I know what is going to happen generally.

Let us have another look at the position. Take Zones 3 and 4, the North and the West. They are traditional Labour strong­holds. The quotas there are reduced to 7 352 and 4 783 respectively. A 20-per-cent. n~argin mea~s one-fifth, so that if that is taken from the 4,783 it means that a man can be elected to this Parliament on just under 4 000 votes in that area, whilst in a metropolitan electorate, where the quota is 10,000, it means that with the 20-per-cent. margin it will require 12,000 votes to elect a man.

In a Labour stronghold the boundaries could be rigged this way, although I do not say that they will be: where there are 10,000 people there is nothing to prevent the Govern­ment's so arranging the boundary that after allowing for the 20 per cent. all that would

be necessary to elect a Labour candidate would be 8,000 votes. That is the weakness of the whole thing. In one electorate a man can be elected to this Parliament on under 3,000 votes while in another electorate it will· require 12,000 votes. Is that demo­cratic government~ Is that government hy the will of the majority of the people~ Is not that a negation of all we hold right, of the principle that we shall represent all the people honestly and truly' The very basis of this suggestion is entirely wrong. The sole purpose for introducing it is to enable this Government to remain in power for another six years at least-because I do not think we shall be able to get them out in less than another six years. During that pericd the socialistic programme can be developed further and still further. There can be no question but that the socialistic programme is being developed. In every piece of legislation going through this House we see such things as power of compulsory acqui­sition, increased wages without reference to the people, centralisation of everything, and superannuation of members of Parliament without reference to the people, despite a strong denial by the Premier at the last election that there would be superannua­tion.

Let us go a little further and look at what happened in Zone 1. At the last elec­tion the Queensland People's Party polled 122,652 votes for 49 per cent. of the total votes for the area. We won eight of the 20 seats, whilst Labour, with only 113,760, or 45 per cent. of the total votes, won 11 of the 20 seats. How is that brought about • The only answer is that the electorates were manipulated or formed in such a way as to allow of such discrepancies. Is that demo­cratic government W Is that government b5' the will of the majority of the people~ This Bill makes the position still worse.

Mr. Hanlon: No. This Bill corrects that. That is w~ere you are wrong.

Mr. PIE: Take Zone 2. Here the Queens­lanil Peop1e 's Party and the Country Partr together won 15 of the 25 seats, with 50 per eent. of the total effective votes. Between them they gained 117,522 votes, whereas, with only 90,820 votes-27,000 fewer or only 38 per cent. of the total-Labour won 10 of the 25 seats. 'l'hat is wrong in principle.

Take Zone 3-at the last elections tlw Queensland People's Party ;country Party gained 261,496 votes or 30 per cent. of the tohl votes polled and did not win one of the ten seats, Labour, with 42,514 votes or 47 per cent. of the total, won eight of the ten seats. On the same percentage under the new distribution which increases the number of eeats to 13, the parties in Opposition would still not win any of the seats. It is obvious that Labour will still win 11 of the 13.

Turning to Zone 4 we find that the Queeno­land People's Party ;Country Party polled 19,405 votes or 40 per cent. of the tota; votes polled, to win one seat of the seven, whilst with 56,477 votes or 54 per cent of the total Labour won six of the

2308 Electoral Distl'l;ots Bill. [ASSEM..:'lL Y.] Eleot()Tal Districts Bill.

~c<e:h. On the same percentage of working when this Bill goes through the Opposition nould still have one only and Labour nine of the 10 seats.

U is an acknowledged fact in this House that the Labour Party is out to win certain electorates. There is no question about that. The Bundaberg electorate is one, Mirani is another-and 1 say that they will never get the present member for Mirani ?ut-and the eleetorat·es of Bowen and Mundmgburra are being sought. These things come to us.

Jlr. Roberts: And Windsor?

:Mr. PIE: Windsor, as a matte?,' of wiH be made a strong seat and Y a!ley seat will be made stronger tco. Those others are the people that the Government ~want to get out. T'he hon. members represent­ing those electorates have caused trouble in this Assembly by their strong speeches--not that I always agree with them in their criticism of the Labour Government. T'he boundaries of Bundaberg, Mirani, Bowen and Mundingbun:.cl are being formed in such a way that it will lJe difficult for the present members to get

into this House.

t,et us now turn to the great \V est >ve hear so much talk of. The West is not enough of to have a Cabinet representing it. There will be more member·s from the West in this House; the electorates of Gregory and Warrego will be cut in two lmt never on tile front benches of this Assembly do we find a Minister representing Weste:rn Queensland. That is one reason

the West has been neglected and say surely the problems of the West

great enough and important enough to 1varrant representation of that part of the Stat~e by a front-bench member or Minister.

}fr. SPEAKER: Order! This Bill is not eleeting the Ministry.

Mr. PIE: I hope that in the dlvision }f the western areas the West will get a dominating vote in Caucus. Let us look at this great N'orth that this Labour Govern­ment--this Socialist Labo;1r Government­say they are developing.

Ir. Jesson interjected.

Mr. PIE: I knew the hon. member for Kennedy would come in. Would it plea.se the hon. member for Kennedy to know that have recently bought a building in Towns­viBe to start a factory there on 1 May~ I have preached decentralisation and I try to ea:r:ry out what I preach. (Government in oorjections.)

Let us have another look at the position. If the same percentage of vote& is recorded for Labour members at the next elections as were recorded at the last elections Labour can win, Rnd that is because of the quotas that have been fixed. On the various zones Labour will get 44 out of the 75 seat& and that is fairly obvious to anyone who studies the position. Of .eourse, they will not need to win 44 seats to get a majority, they will need only 38 seats. Therefore the Hanlon Government can

afford t" lose seven seats and still be on the Treasur, benches. Probably they will lose somEJ. se . ts at the next elections.

This ; " serious matter. The Bill is the very negation of democracy. It is ~he soci!ll'stic plan in operation and the .Pr~nner knows it. That is why ne is. s;> JUbilant. The . 3ill enables the soc;alistrc Hanlon Government to introduce their Socialist policy.. (Government laughter.) Hon. members opposite may laugh but anyone w:ho reads the history of this Government, with their powers of acquisition and t~eir doing of thi~ngs behind the backs and without the knowledge of the people, knowS' that we are on the road to Socialism.

An analysis of the position clearly shows that if a little· over 30 per cent. of ;he votes go the Labour Party th~ Gover,nn:ent can

in power. Is that nghtW et 1s wrong in principle and nO-()il€ ~.'m~ deilJ it. My figures are correct~ I ask hon. memb0rs to see whether I am not right after the next election. If the Government get a little o(ver :;o per cent. of the votes of the people tif.ey can obtain a majority of the seats in Parna· ment. The Bill is iniquitous; it is wrong.

The Government have gone the wrong way ilbout developing the State of Queensland. I know very well that there must be established

Mmistry in North Queensland. That is obvious every time you go to the north. There must be such a Minister with responsi­

on Cabinet level to cater for the require-of the people of North Queensland.

There must be a secretariat for North Queensland too so that decisions may be made on behalf of the people of the North. I have already pointed out that the Secretary for Health and Home Affairs might be an ideal Minister for the new province of North Queensland.

Now Central Queensland. Here again a should be established in Central

to develop those areas. Look at mr,mvP1nt we heaTd about Blair Athol and

look at publicity that the Premier got ii1 connection with the Blair Athol scheme. What llid it turn out to be~ As the hon. member for Mirani said, a schoolboy made a fool of the Premier and that is what really happened. Then the Premier went to London but we knew before he went that he would not do any good.

~lr • .SPEAKER: Order! The hon. mem­ber will not be in order in discussing that matter.

Mr. PIE: To sum up the measure it makes possible the rigging of elections and it makes possible the rigging of votes. How often have we heard some members of Parlia­m<:mt say, ''I start off with 500 votes before I kick off,'' and how often have I explained to this House how that is fixed before they start~ It is obvious that there are certain people in a number of homes who may be regarded as strong supporters, as dyed-in­the-wool Labour supporters. At some of the homes there are three people whereas there are five people on the roll in respect of each home. What happens when the police go round to check the rolls~

Abattoirs Acts [23 MARcH.} Amendment Bill.

o~ it before the expiry date. That would gwe the cattle-growers a feeling of great security.

In the past there have been market fluctua­tions in this commodity, and I well remember. as hon. members opposite too will well remember, that back in 1922, after the firsc World War, the price of cattle in North Queensland was between £14 and £16 a head on the hoof, and almost overnight fell to £6 a head. .That could happen again, lmt we want to ~n-e the cattle industry some measure o~ secunt;y. In what better way could we giVe the mdustry stability than by having ~u agrcenh'nt embodying a price that tooK m to accom1t the cost of produetiou!

I am not att~mpting to say what is the cost of ]Jl'Oduct.wn, nor am I saying that a~ the present trme the price of meat is too hrgh or too low. No-one can anive at the actual cost of production from vcar to year beca~se it v~ries, but a general average could be aaoptcd m order to enable the industrv to be conducted profitably. Then the price of ~attle would go up ~r down according to the mcrease or decreafe m the eost of production. There could be a 10-year contract or guaran­tee m relabon to price based on cost of production, and so those engaged in thn industry would know what was ahead of them for a number of years. That would encourage them t? carry ou~ the necessary improvementR on theu properties, nncl that in turn would enable them to increa~e the number of cattle in tbs country considerably.

I can see no particular objection to that principle in the cattle industry. In fact, I can see one hundred and one reasons for it. There may be ways of developing our channel country, which has been suggested here by making it a fattening depot, but you ~mst get your stock from somewhere. In good seasons people do not want to sell their stores because then many of them are understocked. If we are going to make provision for areas ~hat are bett~r for breeding than fattening, m order to mcrease our herds and enable them to turn off their stock at a younger age, we must make provision for those cattle to go somewhere in bad seasons as well as in good. Unless the graziers were prepared in that respect, the cattle would perish and the people breeding them would be hard hit.

It has been suggested that the channel country can be used for that purpose but it is n;uch eas.ier to say that than to ~arry rt out m practrce because the seasons in that area are irregular, perhaps as irregular as any part of Australia. Certain efforts should be made, as engineers have stated to make for more regular floods in the area tJran ha pp en at present. If that could be done, that area would be a depot where store stock could be diverted and fattened under the best of con­ditions. When the seasons are good in that area stock fatten very quickly.

Possibly something else will have to be done in the ~u:dekin area, which possesses an almost unhmrted supply of water in addi­tion to a considerable area of land. It mav be developed as a fa ttening area. It is very close to the meatworks, where the fattened

cattle would eventually find an outlet. That point is being investigated at present because this area has some advantage over the channel country; the conditions there can be brought under control, for the country eau be flooded whenever required. That would provide a regular outlet for people engaged in the cattle industry. Certain grasses, par­ticularly Guinea grass, grow in the Burdekiu area exceptionally well. There is no doubt about it. Cultivated crops also can be grown there. These are considerations that, although not directly associated with the meat industry, are indirectly important to its well-being. I have seen repeatedly also various serub areas in North Queensland which could carry from one to one and a half beast to the acre and a half. There again you may have an addition a I fattening area.

Why has all this not been done long ago and further investigations been made~ It all comes back to the question of a guaranteed price. There has never been the stability in the industry that is necessary to warrant graziers and people interested in embarking on a huge capital expenditure to make pro­vision for the expansion of this great indus­try. They have not been prepared to risk their money. I do not blame them for it but I do say that we should look at that aspect of the meat industry and see whether we cannot stabilise it by means of a guaranteed price. That is essential if we are going to expand the industry to provide for our ever­increasing population nnd our export trade.

Mr. Plunkett: Do you think you can give a guaranteed price to fit in with a price fixed for the commodity when it is acquired~

Mr. Mal!er: They are two different propositions altogether.

Mr. COLLINS: The guaranteed price would be the price at which that meat would be acquired. Today we :ne acquiring meat at a guaranteed price.

l\Ir. Nicklin: You are not going to do it with cattle, though?

Mr. COLLINS: It would not be possible for us alone to do it.

Mr. Nicklin: Yet you are talking about it.

1\Ir. COLLINS: I am saying it should be done. I am not saying who can do it. I do not say we alone can do it. There has to be co-operation.

-:!Ir. Nicklin: You are not helping by introducing a Bill like this.

1\Ir. COLLINS: Certainly it is helping. Will the hon. gentleman say that the Queem­land Meat Industry Bo:u·d 's operations havf' not helped the meat industry? It has helper] the meat industry very eonsiderably. OnP instance is the new process of exporting beef by chilling it. That process will probably bt· the process used when the meat industry ha~ settled clown.

1\Ir. Pie: You have not replied to statement that the board has no power arqnisition today.

2210 Abattoirs Acts [ASSEMBLY.] Amendment Bill.

:Mr. COLLINS: Does the hon. member not realise that the Government of the dav <~cquired those works~ If you go back to the papers of the day, some time in 1930, yon will see that the Government decided to c•stablish an abattoir in Brisbane. TheTe were three methods-acquisition, conversion o1· eonstruction.

Jllr. Pie: The Crown has power to <~C•juire the cattle.

Mr. COLLINS: The hon. member does not know the laws of his own country. Under th,e Sugar Acquisition Act we always have the power to acquire any commodity in Queensland, and that Act has been tested before the highest court in the Empire. (Opposition interjections.) The power to which hon. members refer is being included in this Bill because it deals with the acquisi­tion of meat. It deals with the freezing of meat and the killing of meat and where necessary the supply of meat to the public of ·Q~eensland. We should still have power lliJder the Sugar Acquisition Act to acquire ;~]] the meat, but why not have it in the Act that deals with that section of industry and g-ive efficient service, without the need for running to some other department or some ether. Minister and asking them to use their machmery and regulations to do something that the Meat Board should have the power to do and that we are giving the Meat Board the necessary power to do~

2t is very remarkable that whatever we have done there was no move from the people engaged in the cattle industry to do some­thing to stabilise their own market. I should welcome any move from them. Whether they move or not, I J?ropose, if it is possible tu do so, to try to brmg about a stabilisation of the prices of cattle for the benefit of the industry. Who made the move in connection with sugar~ The Government did not have to go out of their way to do it. It was the sugar p<,ople themselves who made the move. '\Vho made the move for the staLilisation of the rlairying industry~ 'l'h~ dairying people them­,.;clves, who are the most ardent advocates ror it. 'rake the wheat inc1 ustry. I do not ,.;a.Y that the whole of the wheat-growers were "1 dent. a~voc~tes, but the majority were. If t!Jc prmc1plC' IS sound in those industries it is ,.;ound in . the meat industry. The growing (\f sugar Is more of an annual crop than the !'reduction of meat. The production of wheat ,., purely an annual crop; you plant a crop this year and you reap it towards the end of tho year. The same applies to butter. Cattle­r;;ising is a long-term industry. You cannot plant a crop today and reap it next week. You h:ve to increase your breeders to improve your mdustry, and before you can increase the breeders you have to improve your pro­l':'rty to carry.~~re stock. You have to pro­nrle water ~ac1hhes, fencing, do ring-barking and ploughmg to grow crops to provide feed in the dry times.

: n order to do these things, you want to i;;.,JY \Ybat you me going to get for vour

tlc, not next year but possibly ten years· Ill''""' \\hen your debits that may be startcil ,,r,·w will eome to fTuition, just as it \\'as

correctly said by Sir Henry Turner when he was out here that if Britain wants meat by 1960 now is the time when we have to start to make provision for it. No person will deny the correctness of that statement. A similar statement \\'aS made over the British Broad­casting Commission's service not so very long ago by a spokesman of the British Gov­ernment. Britain will be facing a meat famine by 1960 and now is the time to make pro­vision for it. That is, I believe, the correct nttitnde to be taken towards the meat industry. But, as I have said, I have heard of no move from hon. members opposite who are very well known in the cattle industry to try to bring about this desirable stability in this industry.

It may be asked: how a,re we to increase the number of breeders~ I believe that some review should be made of the number of young female cattle that are speyed and made suit­able for fattening but valueless for breeding. The graziers spey these heifers, sell them as beef, and get probably £17, £18 or £20 a head for that class of meat. And it is par­ticularly good meat, too. But, Mr. Speaker, that is like selling the capital of the meat industry; without these breeders coming on herds cannot be expanded. Some review should be made of that practice.

Mr. Sparkes: They sell only old worn­out cows.

Mr. COLLINS: I think cows should be speyed before they are unduly worn out, but one of the reasons why there are big drought losses today is that when female cattle get to perhaps eight years of age, it is more profitable to spey them than continue to bTeec1 from them. They carry on with the calves they have and then they are fattened up and sold as fat cows. And very g.ood meat it is, too. Not so very many months ago I saw somf· of these cows bring up to £22 a head in the saleyards in Brisbane. If less spey­ing of suitable breeders was practised in the industry it would do more good for the industry than the present practice. There should Le less spcying of the young suitable beasts.

1\Ir. Sparkes: They will not spey any snita ble breeders.

lllr. COLLINS: I can tell the hon. mem­ber that it is done and he knows it is done; he should not make himself foolish by such in tcr:i cdions.

Without claiming that the Bill will do :~11 that is necessary for the meat industty, I say that it will give a valuable measure of help to it.

1\Ir. MAHER (West Moreton) (11.39 ~1.m.): There is no doubt that in the politicnl otbit we travel in eircles. One generation of mun leaTn by trial and error thTough the failme of certain theories and political policy, but a younger generation, even in the light of knowledge and experience, \Yalk into the pitfalls that exist and again bring up the arguments and peddle them, m-g-umen1s that time and experience have shown to lack both value and worth.

Abattoit·s Acts [23 MARCH.) Amendment BiU. 22ll

This, as I see things, is a repetition of history. It is the Mooraberrie case again. Away back in August, 1914, at the outbreak of the first world war, a Bill was put through this Parliament by the Denham Government, as a result of which the grazing industry was able to sign agreements with the Imperial Government, contracting to make beef avail­able to the Government for the purposes of war at 4fith pence per lb. f.o.b.

The country was at war in 1915, when the ~ate Mr. T . .J. Ryan went to the polls. Of course, he thought that the local price of beef, based on the export value to the Imperial Government of 4Hh pence, was excessive, so he advocated a policy of cheap meat for the people. He undertook, if returned to p0wer, to put into effect a policy of socialisation and establish State butcher shops. Despite the fact that ·enormous quan­titiBs of beef were required for the Army and Navy of Britain in that first Great World War, the Socialists of the time, led by the latB Mr. T . .J. Ryan, proceeded to give cheap meat to the people after they had established these •Stat\e butc1her shops by commandeering 100,000 tons of beef from the graziers at 3:!d. per lb. This beef was to be sold through the butcher shops at prices based on this figure, against an export value of 4Hh pence.

So we see that thB wheel has turned the full circle over this period of time. We see now a later generation of Socialists who fail to discern all the failures con~ected with the socialistic experiments in butcher shops and State enterprises generally, as undertaken in 1915, and they are now gauging up, they are now teeing up in order to repro­duce precisely the same set of conditions. In other words they are dissatisfiBd with the higher export values for beef that actually exist. Britain in her hour of tribulation today, has entered into contracts under which she is prepared to pay a certain price for beef. Of course, t_he export price has naturally forced up the local price and again we get the cry, ''Cheap meat for the people.'' They are even prepared to go to the point of confiscating beef, divBsting the owner of his beef in the paddock at a fixed price, a price that I presume will be lower than that which the exporter is paying at present.

The Socialists in 1915 put into operation their policy of butcher shops and bought the State cattle stations on the basis of the State's producing its own cattle and selling the beef through the State butcher shops. It is a long story and it is one that is well known to every hon. membei· of this House. The plain fact that emerges from it is that all State butcher shops were finally wound up and sold and the State cattle stations were sold, not by the Moore Government who succeeded the Socialists, but in 1926 when authority for the sale was given by Mr. McCormack 's socialistic Government. A loss of £2,000,000 was made by the State cattle stations over the period they operated on this policy of giving cheap meat to the people.

Mr. SPEAKER: Order! I hope the hon. member is not going to enter into a long

dissertation on State stations and butcher shops, because those principles are not in this Bill.

Mr. MAHER: I argue that I am entitled to show the House, on the second reading of the Bill, where grave losses have been sus­tained in the past because of the pursuance of a policy identical with the principles in this Bill.

Mr. SPEAKER: Order! The principles are not identical, and there is nothing in the Bill to suggest the re-establishment of State butcher shops or State stations. I must rule accordingly. There is ample scope for dis­cussing the principles of the Bill without a long discussion on principles not contained in it.

Mr. HILEY: Mr. Speaker, I rise to. a point of order. I refer you to page 45, hue 4, of the Bill, which entitles the 9ueensland Meat Industry Board to sell acqmred meat, either wholesale or retail, to such consumers, and I submit that that is authoritv to conduc-t retail butcher shops. ·

Mr. SPEAKER: Order! There is nothing specific to show that this Bill aims at re-estab­lishing State stations or State butcher shops.

Mr. MAHER: The present Government have acquired seven or eight cattle stations within the past 12 months, and those cattle stations are operating in the Emerald distriet today. In addition to that, evidence has beeu adduced in this Parliament by the Secretar.1· for Labour and Industry to the effect that negotiations are in progress for the purchase of thousands of head of cattle in order to stock up those properties, which proves that the Government are again failing to dra'1 conclusions from the lessons of the past. The losses on State stations--

Mr. SPEAKER: Order! I have given a ruling, and I do not want to have a difference with the hon. member. I ask him to respect it.

Mr. MAHER: Very good, Sir. I am tr~:­ing to show that instead of operating retail butcher shops to dispose of beef, the Govern­ment propose in terms of this legislation to establish abattoirs and also to buy beef. You see, there is a failure on the part of those in the Government todav to learn from the lessons of the past, and avoid the pitfalls that were proved to exist.

What are the Government proposing to do.' The Bill gives power to create boards-rr series of boards-in order to get a greater grip or monopolistic hold upon the whole heef industry. It is not only proposed to extend the aren thnt <>omes within the control of the Queensland Meat Industry Board in the metropolis at the present time, but to take in much of the South Coast, Ipswich, and perhaps farther up towards Toowoomba.

Mr. Collins: What is wrong with extend­ing a good principle?

:Mr. ~IAHER,: I was saying that the monopolistic grip is being extended, and that provision is in the Bill for the establishment of an abattoir at any point, to be decided

2:?]2 Abattoirs Acts [ASSEMBLY.] Amendment Bill.

NU'~ sequently along the coast, in the North ot inland, as the Government might determine. There is power for a group of local authori­ties to get together in one component body and operate local-authority-controlled abat­toirs or meatworks, if they so desire. In addition, of course, power is taken not only to uect new abattoirs at any of those points <leeided upon but to acquire any existing meatworks.

F'urther, power is contained in the Bill to divest the stockowner of his right to his own stock and to take from him his right to make his own bargain, to fix his own price when he sells his product, and to cause his <:<•.ttle to be sold at a price to be determined hy the price-fixer, in utter disregard of all the l'lements in connection with supply and demand. That is tantamount to straightout eonfiscation and it cuts across the best pYineiples that have governed the development of this country since it was discovered. The men who have pioneered this country, the men who have opened up the remote areas of the State and settled them, the men who have opened up the furrows and have helped tC'l c>stablish the grazing industry, the men who have built up their properties by hard work are to be entirely disregarded. They are t~ he denied the right to sell their cattle in the lH·st market they can get.

In my opinion, one of the main objects of the Bill is to divert beef now going on the ltoof. t5> N~w South Wales buyers by forcibly :1cqmrmg 1t for treatment at Cannon Hill. J n recent times there has been an irregular flow of cattle to the Cannon Hill yards because market values there do not equal the prices paid in the paddocks by southern buyers. For some time, I know;, this has exer­{'ised the minds of the members of the Queens­l;md Meat Industry Board and no doubt pres­sure has been brought to bear on the Govern­ment, not only from the board but also from others interested to divert the flow of cattle on the hoof at present goinO" into New South \Vales to the meatworks at"' Cannon Hill. l 'ubmit that that is one of the dominating reasons why the Government have decided to introduce the Bill. They desire to exercise >ome measure of control over the flow of eattle to New South Wales and so the whole u !Jject of the Bill is to deny to the cattle­grower his right to the best Australian n•a:rket.

The acquisition of beef in that way pre­n•nts th~ cattle m:;n from going to the best market m Australia for the disposal of his l>e~f ::nd of course it will lead to endless litigation because the cattle men no doubt th.rough their organisation, will te~t the right of the Government so to contravene the spirit of section 92 of the Commonwealth ( ;onstitution, which provides for free trade between the States. This Bill can be con­str.n~d, in my opinion, and it is only my opm10n that I am now expressing, as au nttempt by the State Government to inter­fere with the free flow of trade between Queensland and the adjoining State of New 8o.uth Wales, and when it becomes properly PV]dent what the Government intend to do I am certain steps will be taken to challenge

the right of the State Government to divest men of their right in their own property in order to divert cattle, through a forcing­pen, you might say, to Cannon Hill at lower values than the prices that necessarily rule in the southern markets at Sydney and Melbourne.

The State Government are clearly out to legislate the cattle-owner out of his right­ful market and his rightful property. That is one of the objects of the Bill. I feel that the natural corollary of a measure of this kind will be that the Queensland Meat Industry Board and its innumerable satellites -the various boards that will be set up in the different regional areas-will have such a complete grip on the whole of the cattle industry that the next step w:ill be the acquisition of all beef. They are not resting merely where they see the position today. They are soft-pedalling it today, so as not to cause alarm and widespread fear among the cattle men, but the ultimate aim will be to acquire all beef and through the Queensland Meat Industry Board fix a price not only for local consumption but also for export.

Of course this will perpetuate the rotten principle that has been adopted at Canberra and that the Government are seeking to establish here, namely the bulk sales of primary products as between Government and Government. That leaves the door open to a repetition of what happened in the sale of wheat to New Zealand, which was made a Government-to-Government basis and in which the Australian Wheat Board was entirely ignored. The whole thing savours of crookedness from top to bottom. The price paid to the Government of Australia for that wheat was well below the market price. The whole trend of Canberra is in favour of disregarding the boards that have been established to market primary products and for the Minister of the Crown to enter into negotiations with other countries for the sale of Australia's primary products. That, as I have said, leaves the door open to graft and crookedness of every kind in tremendous transactions in which the growers' interests are entirely ignored, as they were in the sale by the Australian Wheat Board of Australian wheat to New Zealand. That caused the Australian taxpayer a loss of £6,000,000. That is the sort of thing that goes on once the Socialists get their hands on our primar;· products in bulk and dispose of them as between the Australian Government and the Government of Great Britain or the Govern­ments of foreign countries.

That is the way we are trending. That is the way the door is being swung wide on its hinges to enable this Government to get into the same happy hunting ground as the men at Canberra to enable them to enter into bargains with other countries for the sale of primary products that have not been raised by the sweat of their brows. Let the men who produce the cattle, and let the men who go ont into remote parts and live away from civilised communities take their proper reward for their activities. That is the principle that should govern us; we should try to help those men, not try to injure them.

Abattoirs Acts [23 MARCH.] Amendment Bill. 2213

I listened with great interest last night to the speech delivered by the hon. member for Carpentaria. I compliment him on having the courage to come out into the open and oppose his own Government on a matter which his experience and knowledge of the cattle industry show them to be wrong. He said last night, as reported in the ''Courier­Mail''-

' 'There has been too much delay by this Government and the Commonwealth in taking action to see that pastoral properties are producing at full capacity.

''Instead of buying or building abattoirs, we should wait until we have reorganised the industry and have sufficient beef for Queensland, Australia, and Great Britain.''

What the hon. member for Carpentaria said there is correct. Without a doubt the Govern­ment are beginning at the wrong end. If they were to attack the problem from the right end they would investigate the require­ments of the cattle industry in order to make it produce a greater number of cattle than are coming today from cattle properties. What is hindering production is simply, as the hon. member for Carpentaria said, the lack of improvements on properties. That, at <my rate, is one of the factors in the cause.

If the labour shortage could be overcome and ringbarkers could be got and the scrubs and forests ringbarked and the carrying capacity of the country improved, and if pro­,-ision for water could be greatly expanded, if fencing wire could be procured and sub­divisional fences erected, then of course we should find production would be facilitatec1 and the cattle men would he enabled to breed more cattle.

M:r. Theodore: That applie·s to all industries.

Mr. :MAHER: It applies to this one in particular. We want to create incentives to produce more cattle. If we are to create those incentives we should ease the exressive taxatill'n burdens, for one thing. If the con­ditions were such in the cattle districts that there was an availability of skilled labour­the lack of which is due to some of the policies of the Socialist Government causing skilled labour to go from the cattle stations to the cities-and if some of these things were done to help the cattle man and give him a chance to breed up, we should find an ever-increasing flow of cattle, and more cattle being bred; nnr1 we should find that as more were bred there would be a downward trend in values, and the consumer would have his reward. (Government interjections.) It is all right for those very knowledgeable members repre­senting Wynnum and Fitzroy, who never had experience on a cattle station, to cackle on the back benches.

Mr. GUNN: I rise to a point of order. I did not interject. I have nothing to do with entt!e stations and I do not wish to be named as one who was interjecting.

Mr. SPEAKER: The hon. member for 'Nest Moreton will have to dissociate the name of the hon. member for Wynnum from his remarks.

Mr. MAHER: I most certainly withdraw the reference to the hon. member for Wyn­num. I thought he was in a. hilarious mood, but it was his colleague, the hon. member for Fitzroy. These are serious things for the State meat industry. I am saying that if an incentive was provided we should find that the cattle man could increase his herds and with increasing numbers the values would show a downward trend.

I advise the Government to get themselves accustomed to the proposition that the era of low cattle prices in Australian development is past. Even if there is a mue;h greater production of cattle than there is now-and I believe that by proper organisation and incentives it is possible-nevertheless the population of this country is expanding fast, and various authorities have shown that some­where in the 1950's we shall require all the beef produced in Australia to feed our own people. Therefore I say we have to be pl·e­pared for an era of high values in beef. The hon. member for Aubigny has stated time and again in this House-and he keeps in touch with world values for beef, because that is part of his business as one of the leading stud-cattle-breeders of the Common­wealth-that beef in Australia under today's conditions represents the cheapest beef to ~e had anywhere in the wide world. That 1s natural, because of the great world popula­tion and the fact that Queensland is one of the few vast areas left in the world that are highly suitable for the production of cattle. It looks to me as if, with an increas­ing population and the increasing world demand for beef, we were in an era of high prices. To the extent that we are able to export some of our beef that means bringing O'rist to our mill and that is all to the good. It helps to strengthen the economy of our country and we should by all means gi:'e con­sideration to increasing our production of cattle as the hon. member for Carnarvon interj~cted. In answer to that interjection I say that I believe that we can build up our production of beef but we cannot do. 1t by a Bill of this kind. Human nature bemg what it is, the effect of this Bill will be to instil fear into the mind of every cattle man; the effect will be that he will be in fear that the Government intend to divest him of his right to the stock he has bred on his own property, which in many cases is l3;nd leased to him by the Crown for that spec~e purpose. If he is to be divested of all _his rights in his stock he will not. do a?ythmg to continue to produce anythmg hke the number of cattle we require in this country. We shall find that as a result of this interfer­ence and this meddling with the cattle indus­try the production numbers will go still lowel'. What then~ A classic example has been quoted in this Parliament before. What happened in Russia when the gentlemen of the Kremlin -and I flatter them when I use that term­wanted to seize the wheat or divest the kulak or peasant farmer of Russia of his. right and title in the wheat he had grown m the interests of the consumers of Moscow, Lenin­grad, Stalingrad and the other Russian citi~s? The kulaks refused to grow wheat and famrll(' resulted. It has been correctly stated m

2214 Abattoirs Acts [ASSEMBLY.] Amendrnent Bill.

this Chamber that a million or more of Rus­sians died because of starvation, no wheat being available to feed the Russian masses.

Mr. Aikens: What happened to the kulaks'

Mr. MAHER: We have not ye-t reached that stage in this country and I hope to God we never shall-where the Red Army went out and shot down the kulaks and their families like dogs. That is what happened. I hope we never reproduce those conditions here, but one does see the Socialist pushing forth these theories. Past experiences in Queensland have shown them to be unprofit­able and to lack worth. By their political policy they are deliberately creating a short­age of beef, just as the Kremlin 's grab did in the wheat in Russia. No matter how much onB may deplore such a likelihood, as I say, we are dealing with human nature. Whatever the ultimate effect of such action may be, I am certain that with many men, if they feel they are being forced by law to part with something that is their right, there will be a very strong reaction-and it will not be fayourable to increased production.

Nobody knows what the future holds. 'Ehe whole world is trembling on the balance of peace or war. Despite all the assurance~ from this and that quarter that there will be no war, every r;an knows in his heart it only needs a spark to start the flame and 'Ye shall be fiuno· again into war. Not knowing what the fuf;n·e holds, we should be taking every possible reasonable effort to encourage our cattle men to produce more beef. But what do we find W We find the Government coming in with their scheme of Socialism, socialising the meatworks and the whole cattle industry. Without the slightest doubt that is what they intend.

It will be done step by step, of course, and when it comes to the erection of abattoirs, as proposed in the Bill, Bvery man in this House knows there is no business in it, because neither labour nor material is avail­able here to erect abattoirs. We cannot even erect the public hospitals that are necessary. Hospital construction is held up all over the State because of the lack of labour and material. Where, then, does the Minister propose to get thB labour and materials for the erection of new abaUoirs at various points~

Obviously there is no business in that end of the Bill' at all; but there is business in the idea of acquiring existing meatworks. The idea, of course, is to hold the threat of acquisition over the existing meatworks, and if they do not come up to the bait, then, as a result of holding a threat over them, naturally the Minister will expect them ~o listen to reason and to talk turkBy when it comes to thP question of fixing a price for the sale--

Mr. Collins: Is that what you did with Swifts' meatworks~ Is that how you acquired them!

Mr. lliAHER: The purchase of Swifts' works is not in this category at all. Mr. Speaker, you were in this Parliament at the

time and you will remember that Swifts we1:e ready and willing sellers. They had th~n· meatworks on the market. I remember Sit· ting in this House and hearing the present Secretary for Public Lands, Mr. Foley, say by way of interjection that Swifts had been hawking their meatworks round for a couple of years. I cannot say that they did that, but I do know that they were ready and willing sellers and theref.ore the Government were able to buy those works by private treaty from people who were anxious to sell. If the Minister holds an offer from the Ross RivBr meatworks or the Gladstone meatworks or Lake's Creek meatworks at RDckhampton, or any other works, if he holds an offer t~at the private ow~ers of th~se works. are Will­ing to sell to him at a pnce, that iS a. horse of a different colour. But I dD not thmk he has those offers. What hB will do, of course, will be to use the big stick and givB thein to understand that if they like to Sf)ll he is prepared to deal but if they do not come to terms he will acquire in terms of this Bill. That is extending this policy of socialisation too far.

When Swifts' meatworks were in action they were a profitable concern, and taxes were levied by the Queensland Income Tax Department, and they helped to contribute to the needs of Government finance. Now thev have gone out of opBration millions of pounds have been turned over by the Queensland Meat Industry Board but not one penny has been paid in taxes by that Board. Today the meatworks at Gladstone, Rockhampton and Townsville arB all contributing taxes to the State. Acquire them .or buy them out and establish the Queensland Meat Industry Boar~ in control and we lose concerns that contri­buted sub~tantial amounts of taxation to the Treasury in favour of a State instrumen­tality that does not pay anything at all.

If the thing is carried to its logical co!l­clusion whBre does it get us and who \Vlll

eventu~lly pay the taxes in this. country~ 1 remember years ago when _the Bnsbane .. Tram­way Company was operatmg here. Mr. Ba~l­ger as managing director, through h1s co~pany, paid sub~tantial .. amounts of taxation both to thB City mumcipal body and the State. The municipality took _them over. By a deliberate Act of this Parhament the municipality acquired the tramways . and today of course the tramways contnbute nothi~g by way ~f taxes to the St~te,. under municipal control, whereas they d1d m the time of the Brisbane Tramway Company.

Pursuing the whole policy of socialisati?1!, of the acquisition of me~~"':orks, the acqms~­tion of this and the acqms1t10n ,of that, whe1e does it lead us to ultimately1 It leads u_s only to the point where the burden of taxation of the country will inevitably fall on the work­ing man.

We shall have a repetition of the system operating in Russia, where when each week the employe~" receives his pay enve~ope he finds there are deductions and lev1es for loans and taxes that help to _reduce _very considerably the amount of his . earmngs. Somebody has to pay. If you acqmre every­thing in a socialised State, who pays 7

Abattoirs Acts [23 MARcH.] Amendment Bill. 2215

That is the proposition I put to you, Mr. Speaker, and to the Minister: if everything is acquired by a socialised, a Communist-run State, somebody has to pay for development and progress and it falls back then onto the millions of work­ing people of the socialised or communised State. They must pay. An example is before our very eyes in Russia. I advise the Minister to be prudent in the exercise of those powers which, most regretfully, he has in this Bill and which he can operate.

Much of the earlier debate on this matter centred round the question of the butchers at Townsville who were held up to scorn by not only the extreme section of the House-the hon. member for Mundingburra-but also by the Socialist members who spoke: Those 'l'ownsville butchers were the big bad wolves. What was their crime~ So far as I could ascertain by listening to the debate they were obliged to pay something in the vicinity of 63s. a cwt. for beef and under the prices of beef retailed to the consumer, as fixed by the price-fixing authorities, they could get only 56s. a cwt. for that beef. Suppose the hon. member for Mundingburra or the J.1inister himself was placed in the position of a Townsville butcher. He would not be able to keep his doors open very long. (Government interjections.)

Mr. SPEAKER: Order!

Mr. MAHER: Let them give us a shining example in the art of mathematics to show how any business man can buy cattle for 63s: a _cwt. and keep his doors open by selhng It at 56s. a cwt. I know that there :1re miracle-workers on the Socialist side of this House-that is where the miracle men :n·e-and there is a test for their art. We tlo not want dexterity of speech and hot air. If they can get over that they can put their hard cash into butcher shops in Townsville. It is • all right to hold the butchers up to ridic!lle and attack them because they are not playmg the game and are not vending meat to the consumers in Townsville, but the plain facts are there and if anybody on the Soeialist side of this House feels that he can do better I am sure that the butchers of ~ownsville would give him a hearty invita­tiOn to go up there and relieve them of their financial and community responsibilities to the city of Townsville. The answer is that the butchers of Townsville could not carry on hy paying a price that the market value has determined, namely, 63s. a cwt., and selling at 56s. a cwt.

Those hon. members opposite in their wrath say, '' \Ve cannot exactly take over the hutcher shops but we can acquire the meat­works and we can establish abattoirs and we ran give powers to the Queensland Meat Industry Board whereby it will be able to c-ontrol the whole of the beef industry and get a grip upon not only the cattle men but the butchers and the meatworks and every­body connected with the safe of beef." I say that this is a scandalous Bill and it shows the Socialists up in their true light.

The cattle men and butchers and the meat­works have their right to be left free to carry on their business activities in the way that has always prevailed. They have not let the country down. Wherever there has been any slowing up of supplies it has been due to factors connected with the time-the aftermath of war with its shortage of material, shortage of labour, and, of course, King Drought, which is always round the corner ready to reduce their herds. That being so, it can be said that there is no warrant for the Government to interfere with the cattle man in the part that he has played. The meatworks proprietors are carry­ing out their duty to the community. They are giving a grand service to the State. They are selling their beef on the basis of the export market and in that way they are helping the grazing industry and the men in it who have played their part in the general scheme of things.

Every time that there has ever been any interference by the making of socialistic experiments in the place of well-tried enter­prise run by private individuals or private companies losses, graft and crookedness have always been connected with every transac­tion. That has been the experience of this House and the experience of our public ser­vants who have had control of these prob­lems from time to time.

The basis of the whole trouble was touched on bv the hon. member for Carpentaria and that -is the crux of the situation. We could attack the troubles of the cattle industry and overcome the short production by giving the industry better conditions. Let us endeavour to give the cattle men more labour, more materials, and let the Government encourage them by reducing their tax burden. That would enable them to bring about greater production.

When I was in North Queensland last year during the referendum campaign I met a cattle man from the Gulf Country who told me that he lived 150 miles from the nearest town and the nearest doctor. He had young children too young to send to a boarding school, but there was no school in the dis­trict for them. There was no school, no hospital, no bush nurse, and no doctor. He said to me ''Labour is hard to get and so is material.' If I could get the requisite help I could run more cattle on my property. If I try to run more cattle ~oday I am be:set with all sorts of difficulties. I have diffi­culties connected with the Buffalo fly, the sand fly, and many other things.'' BecausA of these troubles and difficulties he is unable to run the number of cattle that his property is capable of carrying. Here is a case in which a man could increase his production if he was encouraged to do so. A man who lives in such a remote part of the State and keeps his family with him should get a better deal than he does from the Govern­ment, instead of being divested of his right to his own cattle that he has bred. He should be encouraged to stay where he is and he should be given the necessary labour in order that he might do his job in a proper

2216 Abattoirs Acts [ ASSEM.BL Y.] Amendment BiU.

way. If he was helped, he could do so. This Bill will discourage and dishearten him, just as it will discourage and dishearten all men connected with the land in Queensland.

The whole object of the Bill, as I see it, is a further step toward the final .objective of socialisation. It contains the power to acquire meat. That is a significant move towards the socialisation of the meat industry. Of course, the Minister has been very mild on that aspect and has said that there is noth­ing in the Bill so drastic as the Opposition think is included. Still, the powers are there. What is meant by taking power if it is not intended to exercise it~ It will be done steadily. The socialisation of the meat industry generally will not be done in one fell swoop. No, but step by step so as to deceive those who may be up in arms against such a preposterous condition.

We see in England a great nation being dismembered by the Socialists in power there. Australia is moving along precisely the same lines. The lead is coming from Canberra. Although Socialist members of this Parliament profess from time to time to stand strongly opposed to the Chifley Administration, when the whip cracks where do we find them~ Always on the platform supporting them. Even though individually many of them declare themselves to be opposed to the nationalisation of banking, what do we find~ At the first opportunity, at the crack of the whip from Canberra, in they come and commit the State to large sums by intervening in the bank-nationalisation appeal in order to back Mr. Chifl.ey up in his proposal for the nationalisation of banking. We can no more trust these men here than we can trust the men at Canberra. They have all signed on the dotted line for the socialisa­tion of all industry in this country and they are on the march.

Those of us who have been deluded in the past by their rry of "Well, this Socialism is a remote objective; after all, it is remote, it won't come in your time, and it won't come in my time,' ' have now had their eyes open. Everyone today must realise the falsity of that profession. We know full well it is coming in our time. It is here and it is assuming uglier proportions every day the Federal Parliament meets and every day the State Parliament meets here.

Those are the dangers that menace our country. This policy of socialisation is being put into practice when we sh0uld bend all our energies to concentrating on building- our country up and strengthening and stabilising it, for the enrichment of our people and the material progress and prosperity of our country. We should do this to make this country sound, solid and stable if the dread spectre of war should again loom up on the horizon and endanger our country.

Mr. Collins: What has all this to do with the Bill~

Mr. MAHER: It has a gre·at deal to do with it. 'l'he perils around us should help us to avoid the causes of political folly.

I oppose any further creatbn of State monopolies. I do so because of the experience

of the past, which the Minister and those behind him fail to take into account. The only hon. member on the Government side whom I have heard to show any common­sense understanding of the position is the hon. member for Carpentaria, who had the courage last night to state the truth. It was stated this morning that he would be put on the mat. Let me say that no man can be put on the mat by Governments or anyone else if he speaks the profound truth. It is only when he speaks the untruth that he can be broken and destroyed. If a man stands up and states what is the truth, no Minister c~n carpet such a man.

I oppose the Bill, so far as these objec­tionable provisions are concerned relating to the creation of boards for the confiscation of the property of other people.

Mr. SPARKES (Aubigny) (12.30 p.m.): It is a pity that so much of the time of this House should be taken up in debating a Bill that I feel sure, if it simply provided for the setting up of abattoirs fo:r i the people, would not have been debated for 10 minutes.

I feel sure every member on. t~is side of the House favours the better krllmg system that is provided by a public abattoir. I feel sure that if the Minister brought along a Bill for that purpose, and to give the people the benefit of country killings, he would have nothing like the opposition that. we have s~e;1 to this Bill. The whole trouble 1s the acqmsr­tion clause. Those are the things that have the people on this side of the House and the cattle people worried. For that reason I oppose that part of the Bill. The _abattoir in Brisbane has done a. wonderful JOb, but no such power was given to it. No such power should be giYen in this Bill.

We find some members getting up and rightly supporting the gra7ing industry. ~he Minister said that the cattle men were domg a good job and developing the Sta.te, and the hon. members for Carpentana and Grcgory, both practical men, also made eulo­gistic Teferenee to the grazing inilustry. But then we find that real Commos, like the hon. member for Fitzroy and the hon. member for Port Curtis--

lUr. CLARK: I rise to a point of order. I want to dissociate myself from the Com­munist Parh; and I object to any rnemb<Or of the Opp'osition connecting me with the Communist Party. I ask the hon. member to withdraw those remarks.

lUr. DEPUTY SPEAKER (Mr. Hilton): 'rhe hon. member for Aubigny must withdraw that remark.

Mr. SPARKES: I accept his denial. He ma~· be only a fellow traveller.

Mr. CLARK: I object to that remark and I ask for its withdrawaL

Mr. DEPUTY SPEAKER: The hon. mem­ber for Aubigny must withdraw that term ''Commo'' as applied to the hon. member fo1 Fitzroy.

Abattoirs Acts [23 MARcH.] Amendment BiU. 2217

Mr. SPARKES: Very well, I withdraw the word '' Commo '' and substitute '' Socialis­tic member.'' They have the very same outlook as the Commos.

Mr. Muller: There is no difference.

Mr. SP ARKES: There is no difference, as the hon. member for Fassifern says. ''Why shouldn't we take the cattle f "-that is the principle of the hon. member for Fitzroy.

Mr. Clark: I said "if necessary."

Mr. SPARKES: "Whether they are ready or not' '-it does not matter a damn to him-'' we take them.'' That is what he >vants. I appreciate those hon. members who think otherwise. What we have to fear is that people with those views may obtain the c-ontrol of this House. We saw a little of it in the recent strikes when they were forced to let out the Commas-forced to release tl1em.

Mr. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order!

Mr. COLLINS: I rise to a point of order. object to the language used by the hon.

member accusing the Government of being forced to let certain people out of gaol. (Opposition interjections.)

Mr. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order!

Mr. COLLINS: I think it is entirely inrlevant. I ask him to withdraw those insinuations that we were forced to let those people out of gaol. He should moderate his language.

Mr. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I ask the hon. member for Aubigny to accept the denial of the Minister; and I ask him to confine his 1·ernarks to the Bill before the House.

Mr. SP ARKES: I will accept his denial. I thought they were forced, but they did it of their own free will, which makes it all the IYOI'Se.

For a very long time the people of Australia have enjoyed very low prices for c>very pri~ary product they consume, and have got mto the mood that when price moves up a little the article is too dear. 'Ne heard no wail from the Government benches when cattle were selling at round about 60s. for a fat bullock weighing 700 or 800 lb. Did we see anyone on the Govern­ment benches jump up anc1 say that the cattle men should get more and ask how could the State be developed if the cattle men were forced to accept these prices for their cattle~ The higher prices being paid now are low in comparison with those paid in other parts of the world. The people of Australia and Queensland in particular have to realise that they must be prepared to pay more for their primary products. People in other parts of the world are paying more.

I am surprised to hear some of the remarks made by some of the members of the Govern­ment, realising what this means to the workers. They always pose as being the great friends of the workers-the dear workers-but if these primary industries clo not pay their way, in other words if they are not success-

ful, how can they pay decent wages to their workers~ The more successful the industry, the higher the price obtained for the produce, the higher can the worker be paid and the better conditions can he be given. The decent workers of Queensland, members of the A.W.U., and others, are very much inter­ested in this great cattle industry that I was surprised to hear members trying to decry.

The Minister stated that he wants to see this industry expand, he wants to help it, he wants to do everything possible for it, he wants to see the herds increase, but he also said that he wanted the speying of heifers stopped. Here again comes the hidden hand to show a person how to run his own property. Who is the best jm1ge whether a heifer should be speyecl f Is some fellow sitting in an office in Brisbane to tell me whether I should spey heifers that run on my property? \IV e have seen the Secretary for Public Lands jumping up ancl putting a Bill through this Parliament, telling us that we must not overstock our properties, but when a cattle man lightens off his herd by cleaning out his culls and speying the old cows, what happens~ We hem·n the Minister this morning. One of the properties under my control brands 3,000 or 4,000 calves a year, anu we must get off at least an equiva­lent number. If we continue to breed where shall we be~ The hon. gentleman would be the first to say that we have over­stocked, that we have robber1 the country. We have heard that statement in this Chamber about the Central Districts on many occasions.

As to this continual interference with the cattle industry, as a cattle man-and I have all the cattle men behind me; that must not he f01·gotten-I say that any interference in our industry will not prouuce one pound more of beef but will cause a reduction of hundreds of pounds in the production of beef. That is the point. If they are honest in their endea· vours to induce the cattle men to build up their herds, let them do as was pointed out by the hon. member for Carpentaria. Let the cattle men enjoy the prices they are get­ting. I atlmit they are good, but the coun­tries are 1n·epared to pay them and we are entitled to accept them. Do the Government want us to go back to the prices at which we could not develop our properties or employ labour~ Is that what the Government wanU Is that likely to cause an increase in herds or cattle? No, it is not.

The Minister objected to the way in which Swifts' meatworks were acquired. He said that the Government of the clay did it with­out reference to this Parliament.

~Ir. Collins: That is correct.

lUr. SP ARKES: The hon. gentleman says that that is correct. I am not saying that it is not correct, but what was the hon. gentle­man doing~ He sits there and will not answer truthfully a question addressed to him about the purchase of cattle. He knows that the Government bought cattle and I can tell him what they have paid for them. They have bought cattle at Alexandria in the Territory. They paid £10 a head for them-they were

2218 Abattoirs Acts [ASSEMBLY.] Amendment Bill.

No. 7s-and it will cost another £2 to deliver them at Cullin-La-Ringo, yet they will not even admit it or tell this House about it.

Mr. COLLINS: I rise to a point of order. 'fhe hon. member is entirely out of order because he has never addressed a question to me on the subject.

Mr. DEPUTY SPEAKER (Mr. Hilton): Order! If the !ton. member has not addressed a question to the Minister he has no right to state the inference he did.

lUr. SPARKES: Then again I will make a substitution and say "his Government" or ''the Premier.'' But is he going to sit there and say he does not know these cattle have been bought'! Does he know nothing about it~ Of course he knows. Whv does he not come out into the open and say,""Yes, we have entered into negotiations and the cattle are already on the road~"

Mr. Collins: We told you that.

Mr. SP ARKES: The Minister knows the Government bought them from Alexandria and that they are going to be walked into Dajarra to be trucked. All I am trying to show is the different outlook of the hon. gentleman today from that of Mr. Moore and what he did, and it ill becomes the Ministe1· not to come out in the open and tell us what they have done.

A Bill to create abattoirs in the more populated areas, as stated by the Minister, has its advantages. Country killing also has its advantages, but I make an appeal to you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, because you represent an electorate very close to the border of New South Wales. You know how dependent your people are on that market across the border where we are selling to fellow Australians. You know how stock move from this side of the border into that State. Is the Minister going to come on to my property, or any other property in the south-west part of this State and say, "Look, you have 250 bullocks there. \Ve want to take them at the fixed price. Put them on the train and send them down to the abattoir~" Or, am I going to be allowed to say, ''I have decided to sell those bullocks to Tancreds. whose works are ,just across the border~'' The hon. gentleman is very silent about that but we know that he hears well because he hears other remarks and jumps up very quickly. ·

We have heard much about the channel country of the South-West. The vast majority of the cattle reared in that area move to the southern States. Are they going to come np to Quilpie and the South-West area and say, ''We want your bullocks; bring them all the way back to the abattoir at the fixed price W''

Mr. Devries: Why should we not do that if there is a shortage of meat in Queens­land~

Mr. SP ARKES: There· has never been any shortage of meat and the hon. member knows it. Let him go to England for a while and he will know what shortage of meat means. Why, you can walk into any cafe in Brisbane or in any other little centre of the

State and sit clmYn to a big plateful of steak or mutton or some other meat. But the hon. member for Gregory would carry these bullocks all those miles down to· these> abattoirs. Is t_he Minister going to join that gang of tlneYes who want to stop the cattle men from selling their cattle on the best market? \Ye see them in their true colours. The point seems to be that they will take cattle at any cost. That is the \\lwle set-up of this thing-'' \Ve shall have the cattle at any cost.''

The Minister said to me by way of rl'ply to my inteT,iection this mOTning, ''Look at Townsville. '' Well, let us look at Townsville. Mueh has been mnde of the incident. '!'hi,, Bill will go through and I presume the ltOJJ.

member will say to the grazier, ''Well, olrl chap, you have 500 or 600 bullocks; we want 200 of them at the price the Commissioner of Prices fixes.'' 'l'ha t is in the Bill.

Mr. Power: Anything wrong with that"

Mr. SP ARKE S : What is wrong with it? I should like to see the hon. members for Brisbane and Fitzroy running properti~s up there; they would know what was wrong· with it. They have seen with their own eyes what the western and northern people have to g;o through with droughts. What is wrong with it~ For the information of the hon. gentle­man who interjected, let me say that you are taking away a bullock 1Yeighing 600 lb. whPu if you left him on the property for another two or three months he would weigh 800 111. The rain has come and the grass is there.

Mr. Clark: We will leave it there.

Mr. SP ARKES: No, they will take it if necessary and they will say it i~ necessar:\". That is the very thing that we on this side of the House arc opposed to. We rue opposl' 1 to the acquisition part of the Bill.

lUr. Collins: You are out of step with the industry.

Mr. SPARKES: I defy the hon. gentle­man to bring forward anyone engaged i11 this industry who favours the acquisition of his cattle. There are madmen in all walb of life, I know, but I hardly think there is a grazier mad enough to say to the Gowrn­ment, ''Come in and take my cattle if .-on like." · ·

Mr. Devries: Not below the cost-of­production figure.

Mr. SPARKES: The hon. member who interjects should know better. I should lil<c: him to tell me the cost of production. I am surprised at him. I ha.-e listened to hon. members speaking a bout the cost of produc­tion of fat cattle and I am really surprised and flisappointed to think that a man of tlw ability of the hon. member for Gregory shonlfl make such an utterly stupid remark.

Mr. Devries: You are accusing the Minis­ter of doing that. Are you afraid of his doing that~

Mr. SPARKES: We are condemning the Bill because it provides for that. We have head impassioned speeches delivered by hou. members opposite. The hon. member shakes

[23 MARCH.] Amendment Bitl. 2219

his head and I really do not believe that he IYOuld like to be associated with this sort of thing. What are we to believe when we see hon. members rise in their places, as the hon. n1embers for Fitzroy and Port Cmtis and others did, and in impassione(l speeches say, "We wi!J take the meat if we want it; what is wrong with it~" I said to them, ' Will rou take it before it is ready~'' And they said, "Yes, what is wrong with that~" We had the awful spectacle of the hon. member for Kelvin Grove carting an emaciated shoulder of mutton into this Chamber the Jther day to show that the gra.ziers are send­ing in mea.t before it is ready. Against that there was the statement by the hon. member for Kennedy that the graziers wi!J not sencl their stock in and a.re starving the public. C\ o, the graziers are behaving like ordinary human beings and want the right to market their cattle on the best market available and 11·hen the stock are ready. The1·e "as nothing to stop the people of TownsviJ!e from having plenty of mea.t if they were willing to pay n price equiva.lent to the export price.

When you try to buy meat below that ]Jl'ice, you arc only forcing it bBlow its eco­nomic value. That has been the aim of the Deputy Premier of this State. He has endea­Youred by every possible means to force down the price of meat below its proper value, :md he has never let up with his campaign. 'l'hat is why we have the Bill to provide for abattoirs and the acquisition of cattle. Their policy has now been exposed in all its naked­uess. I have said on the floor of this House time and time again that if you are willing to pay the proper value for the meat you will get it. I have never made any bones about the fact that cattle men will want to sell their meat on the best market. I do not blame them for that. Let us take the case of an hon. mem­ber opposite. Let us suppose that he is a worker-and I do not think that he is. He would be a fool to stay at employment at £9 a II'CC'k if he could get £10 a week and eon(1i­tions were equal in both cases. He should h:ti'C the right to sell his labour on the best possible mar·ket, but so should the cattle man hav•• the right to sell the result of his labour HJH1 the re'ult of his work OYPr the years on tl"' hest possible market. Why deny him thnt righU

Jir. Devries: He is not going to produce Ht a. loss and the Government do not expert l1im to do so.

liir. SP ARKES: Of course. he will not produce at a loss but during the years from 1921 to 1928 he did produce at a loss.

:tUr. Devries: That was proven.

Mr. SPARKES: But can you show me ::my little line in '' Hansard'' or any para­gm ph that would indicate that in those years llJcmbers of the Labour Government got up in their places in this House and suggested a 11 ay to help them~ There is not one word in '· H ::msard '' about that. I have searched a good many of the pages of '' Hansard'' lllyself to find such statements, and I have ~~·en handed '' Hansard'' to my boy and said, ''Dig through these and if you can find an.1·tlli.r~g •m the subject Jet me know.'' 'l'he

lwn. member for Gregory knows fu11 well that in those years ea ttle men were ~elling their stock at less than 1 Os. a 100 lb.

Mr. Devries: The same applied to wool.

Mr. SPARKES: Hon. members oppo­site know what the position was in those years and I know, Mr. Speaker, that you are ,,-ell aware of it. If the growers are able to get a higher price for their meat than they formerly did, that simply compensates them for the bad years they have been through and provides a measure of security for the future.

Mr. Power: Have a look at their estate·s when they die-£150,000.

Mr. Collins: Have a look at their wealth when they live, too.

~Ir. SPARKES: When thP Minister makt"' a statement like that I begin to doubt ltis sincerity "·hen he says that he appreciates the good joh the graziers hnYe done. Let hon. members make an nyerage or' the prices pai,1 for cattle over the years. 1 ask the bon. member for Grcgory to m:JkP an average )f the pricps OYer the past :w .'·ears. \Vlw t is the rePult? He knows as well rrs 1 <lo tlw it is only during the past fe11· yl':tr$ t!tnt the inr1nstr.'' has been able to get a reasona: ly paya\Jic prier-, and let me reiterate that if those vrices were n0t paid it 11·oul<l not be possible to develop either the industry or the State. We are urged to produep mon· meat for our own people and for tl1e people of Great Britain.

llir. Devries: I think you have argued that taxation has reduced production.

)fr. SPARKES: The hon. member knows as well as I do that that is a factor. I realise that.

T really cannot see why a really good Bill­and I say that advisedly-should be spoilt by the inclusion of something that is not required. H.on. members will say that I am out of touch with the industry. I am often in touch with the industry. The people whom I have spoken to have made the same remark "We do not like the provision to acquire our cattle, Jim.'' I said, ''But the Minister said it will never be put into opera­tion.'' They replied, ''Then why put it in the Bill~'' If that provision was deleted the good principles would remain, and I feel sure that then-I cannot speak for every hon. member on this side but I have yet to speak to one who objects to the establishment of abattoirs and country killing centres-the Bill would be approved. We know that right on our border we have Tancreds operating at Bourke and Wallangarra. That firm has done an exceptionally good job in providing a good market for cattle-producers in those areas. No cattle man would protest at any move that would provide a better market for his stock. If, on the other hand, you told them what they should do with their bullocks when they are fat, or tell them where you should market them I do not think from what I know of them that one of their num­ber would approve.

The House adjourned at 12.59 p.m.