I:

Cardiff Post 1

THE QUALITATIVE ELECTION STUDY OF BRITAIN 2015

Cardiff Post-election Focus Group 1

conducted May 16th 2015

Transcribed Focus Groups Dataset

Version 1.0

Date of release: 22 June 2016

Principal Investigator

Dr. Edzia Carvalho, University of Dundee

International Co-Investigator

Dr. Kristi Winters, GESIS, Cologne

Research AssistantMarcel Gehrke, GESIS, Cologne

Funded by

British Academy and Leverhulme Trust Small Grant SG142740

and supported by

Carnegie Corporation of New York, GESIS-Leibniz Institute (Cologne) and University of Dundee

QESB Contacts

qualesb@gmail.come.carvalho@dundee.ac.ukkristi.winters@gesis.org

@qualesb

qualesb2015

‘QESB’

www.qesb.info

READ ME

Transcribed Focus Groups Dataset Version 1.0

On copyright and attribution

Copyright of this transcript belongs to Dr. Edzia Carvalho and Dr. Kristi Winters. Individuals may re-use this document/publication free of charge in any format for research, private study or internal circulation within an organisation. You must re-use it accurately and not present it in a misleading context. You must acknowledge the author, the QES Britain project title, and the source document/publication.

Recommended citation: Carvalho, E. and K. Winters. 2015. 'The Qualitative Election Study of Britain 2015 Dataset', version 1.0. Funded by British Academy and Leverhulme Small Grant SG142740 and supported by GESIS, Carnegie Corporation, and University of Dundee. Available at: http://wintersresearch.wordpress.com

On the transcription

All participants’ names have been changed and any direct or indirect identifiers removed to protect their anonymity

The transcripts in Version 1.0 do not have enhanced data recovery including non-verbal communication. It includes the basic transcription of words said by participants. The participants have been identified through attribution by the moderator or other participants and by an initial attribution by the investigators. Subsequent versions of the dataset will verify attribution of participants by video identification.

The transcripts in this version also do not include extensive instructions given to participants at the beginning of the groups, introductions by participants, and exchanges between participants and moderators during exercises.

Initial Transcription by: Just Write Secretarial Services, Belfast, Northern Ireland. Contact: m.mckillen@btopenworld.com

Reporting conventions used

We have used ** to indicate words, phrases or sentences which we could not hear.

Italic font indicates we have taken a guess at a word/name etc.

Words in parentheses {} indicate physical gestures or what can be heard on the tape but cannot be clearly articulated into specific words.

Removal of direct and indirect identifiers are set off with + word +

Cardiff Post 1

2

Location: University of Cardiff, Cardiff

Moderator : Dr. Kristi Winters

Moderator : Dr. Edzia Carvalho

2015 Alias

Sex

Special Category

Age group

Supporter

Party

Strength

Pre Group

Post Group

Constituency

2015 vote preference

Nelly

F

unassigned

26-33

N

NA

NA

Cardiff 1

Cardiff 1

Cardiff Central

Y, not which party

Isaac

M

N

26-33

N

NA

NA

Cardiff 1

Cardiff 1

Cardiff Central

Y, not which party

Noah

M

Student

18-25

Y

Labour

4

Cardiff 2

Cardiff 1

Cardiff Central

Y, and party

Willem

M

N

49-56

N

NA

NA

Cardiff LD

Cardiff 1

Cardiff South and Penarth

Y, not which party

Brenda

F

N

49-56

N

NA

NA

Cardiff LD

Cardiff 1

Cardiff West

Y, not which party

Natasha

F

N

34-41

N

NA

NA

Cardiff LD

Cardiff 1

Cardiff West

Y, not which party

Participants:

Cardiff Post 1

3

ContentsVOTE CHOICE STORY9Willem9Willem9Willem10Willem10Willem10Brenda10Brenda10Noah11Noah11Nelly11Nelly12Isaac12Natasha12TO WHICH POLICIES WILL YOU PAY ATTENTION?13Willem13Willem13Brenda13Brenda13Noah14Noah14Nelly14Isaac14Isaac14Natasha15Isaac15Natasha15Willem15Nelly15Isaac16Nelly16Noah16Isaac16Natasha16Willem16Isaac16Noah16Isaac16Natasha16Noah16Natasha16Isaac16Brenda16Natasha17Willem17Natasha17Willem17Natasha17Natasha17Isaac17Nelly18Noah18Isaac18Brenda18Isaac19Brenda19Natasha19Brenda19Isaac19Natasha19Brenda19Willem19Willem19Isaac19Willem19Isaac20Willem20Isaac20Brenda20Willem20Brenda20Isaac20Brenda20Isaac20Brenda20WAS THE ELECTION FAIR?20Natasha20Natasha21Isaac21Natasha21Isaac21Isaac21Willem21Isaac21Willem21Natasha21Willem21Isaac21Brenda22Isaac22Natasha22Willem22Natasha22Willem22Willem22Brenda22Brenda22Isaac22Isaac23Noah23Isaac23Noah23Isaac23Brenda23Isaac23Isaac23Isaac23Isaac24Isaac24Isaac24Willem24Isaac24Willem24Willem25TOO MANY REFERENDUMS?25Brenda25Noah25Nelly25Isaac25Natasha26Nelly26Natasha26Noah26Isaac26Noah26Isaac27Natasha27Isaac27How you're going to vote in the Welsh Assembly elections in 201627Willem27Willem27Isaac28Willem28Isaac28Willem28Isaac28Willem28Isaac28Natasha28Isaac28Natasha28Isaac28Isaac29Willem29Isaac29Nelly29Isaac29Nelly29Isaac29Willem29Isaac29Nelly30Isaac30Willem30Isaac30Isaac30

Transcript

VOTE CHOICE STORY

I2: Will we make a start? I'll get the cameras going. It's been quite an interesting election and so really exciting for us as researchers to try and grapple with what has happened and try and understand what has happened. So we're really happy to have you back to try and see how you voted, why you voted the way you did and what you feel about the outcome. Essentially those are the three things that we're going to be touching upon. Before we start though I just need to make sure that you understand that the consent form that you signed before the election, the pre-election focus groups, covers you for the post-election focus groups as well. That's why you're not signing anything else saying "I consent," because it's covered. Of course if you have any questions about the project or about what's going to happen to your submissions to whatever you speak, please get in touch with us at any time. You can also follow us on Facebook, Twitter and Mute so if you want to keep up with the project and find out what's happening, what sort of research is coming out, what are our findings, it's all going to be on social media. Obviously as well in our journal articles and so on but social media is more accessible. So, in terms of what we are going to talk about today, as I've already mentioned, how you voted, why you voted, what you felt like when you were voting, and then of course with the results, and then things that have happened in the last week and moving forward to the 2016 parliamentary elections, of course in Scotland and the Welsh Assembly elections here. So we'll start with the question that we've been asking all our participants: Tell us about your voting day. What was the day you voted like? When did you vote? What did you feel like when you were voting? When did you find out about the results? What did you feel about the results, walk us through that day.

I: Tell us the story.

I2: Exactly. So, Willem, would you mind going first?

Willem: I voted in the evening. There were more people there where I vote than there had been in previous Welsh and general elections, so I was quite surprised at that. I voted Lib Dem. Yeah? Do you want me to go through the reasons for that?

I2: Yeah, just very quickly.

Willem: I've no idea why. Labour didn't appeal to me, Tories no, Plaid no, Greens, I thought were okay but not really that great, and I think there was one other from TUSC that never really came on the radar. So Lib Dems, despite the candidate not actually having any profile at all, but I thought that contrary to what people now think, I thought they did do something as part of a coalition and I assumed that they would fulfil the same process, obviously forlornly in the next group. So I voted about 8 pm, I think, sometime in the evening, and then I was ...we had a prediction when the exit poll came through, I watched it until about 4.30 in the morning, which I shouldn't have bothered with, but there you are.

I2: What did you feel like?

Willem: It was quite surprising, wasn't it? It was contrary to what people thought, but then I suppose you could say that maybe it's about the economy. Is it Regan that said that? "The economy's people?"

I: That was Clinton.

Willem: That's why, just kind of cunning, in a sense, and I don't know, I don't know anything about secret or closet Tory voters or stuff like that. So there we are, I've no idea about the day, I was neutral.

I2: Did you, I can't remember how the constituency results went, ...

Willem: I presume as expected, Labour, safe Labour seat, no issues there, nothing can change that unless there's a big boundary change.

I2: Thank you very much. Brenda.

Brenda: I voted about 7 pm, because I had wait for my daughter to come back from university in London, because her postal vote hadn't been cleared, so she was determined to vote for the first time. We went into the booth about 7 o'clock, there was nobody else in there. I was very much floating between them right up to the end. But I always vote on the principle of Emmeline Pankhurst and nothing else. So I actually voted Plaid Cymru, primarily because I think Leanne Wood has done a good job and she was the face of Wales, and we had actually seen the local candidate as well. First time ever I voted Plaid Cymru because someone was anti the language policy, despite being born and bred in Wales. I did watch the results until the small hours of the morning and then it got very boring, but I was very, very surprised by the way it slung, the turn out, that wasn't really predictable.

I2: Was there anything specific about the results that surprised you?

Brenda: I think the high number of the UKIP voters, and you could question whether they were throwing away the votes because they weren't confident in the Lib Dem vote or whether Farage was actually saying things that people were afraid to say in the society that we live in. I don't know, I think that was quite alarming, really. The Greens, I don't think did anything in Wales. They have a very odd bunch, and the Labour constituency, like you say, was a safe Labour seat and that was always going to be Labour. The Tory candidate, his constituency was in Exeter so he didn't bring much to the table, and the Unions haven't been supportive to me in the last year so I thought, "blow that, they aren't going to get one."

I2: Thank you. Noah, what about you?

Noah: I voted at 10 o'clock in the morning, because it was right next to my house, I think that I would be the closest house to the voting polls. I stayed up all night, and then I was planning to get back to Cornwall where I live and by the time that I got back home the votes hadn't been counted and my constituency at home was the last one to be counted, so I got back home and then got further news that I didn't want to hear. I voted Labour so obviously I was disappointed. I was happy with the result in my constituency, Cardiff Central, because obviously that was Labour and it was one of the few seats they did quite well in. Overall I was quite disappointed and quite shocked, for the same reasons I've previously stated, how the margin was so wide. Betting markets polls could predict it for weeks on end before and then as soon as the exit polls came out it was inevitable what was going to happen. Every marginal 50/50 swing seat was always going to the Conservatives.

I: A debate that decides about who's more accurate, the betting markets or the polls, and they pretty much improved 07:43 The polls, they were having different results.

Noah: Normally betting markets are quite reliable to go on, obviously if people placing large monies on it, it's going down, down, down. Money does speak, doesn't it?

I2: Just to catch someone up, we're going over everyone's voting day. We want you to tell us the story of your voting, how did you vote, what did you feel like, what did you feel like when the results came out, how did you find out, and so on, just the story. So I'm just going around the room, so you have time to settle in. Nelly?

Nelly: I voted at 7 o'clock in the morning, so it was like get it done before I go to work. There was actually quite a lot of people, I think, at work who had come to do the same thing in my constituency. Then I went to work and then I was quite like "oh nothing's going to happen for hours and hours!" 09:02 I did actually, when the exit polls came out I did turn on and look at them, I probably watched for a couple of hours until it became apparent that they were actually true, because there was a period of disbelief, and then I went to bed. Yeah, I was quite disappointed in the result, really. I was quite disappointed in the way people had voted, but obviously it was their choice. But also I was quite annoyed about the polls, because I felt like, that obviously they were so far off, and I felt like maybe what you said about people voting for Lib Dems, I felt maybe that was something, if people had of known the actual, what it was looking like they might have voted differently. In my constituency I voted Labour, so I did what I said what I was going and look how the Lib Dem MP had voted on various issues, but when I looked she had been kind of a whip for the Lib Dems, so she'd obviously voted with the coalition a lot and I didn't really like that, so I 09:52 believe her. So I was quite happy with the outcome of our seat, but then looking back on it now I kind of think, I wouldn't mind the Lib Dems having done a bit better, but that's where it's gone.

I2: Did you want the Lib Dems to do better?

Nelly: No I didn't because I don't have much faith in them in terms of what they did in the last government, but now looking at it I would obviously prefer if there would be more Lib Dems and less Conservatives. I would have preferred the coalition rather than the Conservative majority, which is why I felt like the polls being so far off was quite annoying, because I think a lot of people were thinking that Labour really had a chance to get a majority and were kind of pushing that way.

I2: Thank you. Isaac?

Isaac: I was surprised at the result. I actually voted by postal vote, so I voted quite a long time ago, because I never have time to get to the polls. So I voted Green, as I said I'd vote, mainly because as I said at the last one, I think that this is an election to vote on principles. I've always voted in the past, tactically. This time I voted where my heart was so I voted for Greens. I'm in Central so I wasn't very happy with that result. I would have preferred the Lib Dems to get back in rather than Labour because I don't like Labour. But I wasn't at all surprised that Labour didn't win, because I could see from the outset, as I was saying the last time about the leader, about the actual personality, I think it is important as a politician and I could see that that he wasn't good enough. But I stayed up all night; I was up till 6.30. I had some friends around, had a political party. I waited until I knew what 11:45 it was before I went to bed, but I wasn't surprised that Conservatives got most votes but I was surprised that they won the majority. I thought that they would do a minority, I was surprised. I think, I suppose, again, I was surprised definitely at the UKIP. I thought they would get a lot but having looked afterwards where they came second, it's a lot of seats in the country that they came second, and I still am a bit flabbergasted at that, to be honest, which gives me more reason to vote Green in the next election to make sure there's someone on the left to oppose them.

I2: We'll be coming to that. Thank you.

Natasha: I voted at 9am in the morning, because the polling station was right next my kids' school, so we dropped off the kids and then we voted. I voted Liberal Democrats, and the reason I voted Liberal Democrat was because I went through all the policies as much as I could and I was astonished at how little I agreed with everybody's policies, but the Liberal Democrats I disagreed with less than the others, so you do what you can. Also I thought the Lib Dems did all right in a really, really difficult situation when they were in coalition. I voted for them, even though my husband rightly said it was a wasted vote, but again, like you, I voted on principle. And Labour won that seat. I'm perfectly happy with that. I've met the guy, he seems a very good politician, a little scary in his way but very good . So, you know, there isn't anything different there. But tremendously disappointed with the British people actually, with the way they voted. I think they voted Conservative probably because they thought they were safe and they've done a good job with the economy, but I don't think they've thought it through. There you go, that could just be because they disagreed with me.

TO WHICH POLICIES WILL YOU PAY ATTENTION?

I: Thank you. One of the things we want to pick up now that there is a good government with a slight majority, but a majority nonetheless, they have already started to put out their policies and their principles, and we're wondering what you guys will be looking at and paying attention to in the coming weeks and months in terms of the new government and where your focus is? So maybe we could start with you Willem, is there anything that you in particular that you're going to be watching when it comes to the new government?

Willem: I would be most worried about Europe, really. I think there's quite a sizeable Conservative block and if you stick the UKIP onto that then that's quite a threat to future engagement with Europe, and I think that, to me, that would be a massive problem, really.

I: Can you say why? We hear a lot about why people don't like Europe and things but what are the concerns....

Willem: The problem, not a problem, the power battle, in a sense, is China, India versus the rest, in a sense, and I think any kind of block of nations needs to have some uniform process to try and survive and to have some power in dealing with... it's not a threat really but big economic forces, and a small country on its own is powerless. I disagree totally with the UKIP thing, "oh Switzerland can do trade deals and stuff." That's rubbish! So I think you need some degree of block that kind of have some presence, and by presence implies economic power, economic abilities, so to manage with the, say, next 100 years, Chinese rise dominance, Indian rise dominance, Africa in the next 200 years, but there needs to be some kind of presence, really. That's why I think that we need to engage and be part of a progressive and forward thinking whatever. That's my view.

I: Thank you. Policies already in politics that are going to be of concern to you or you're going to be watching for in the news?

Brenda: Obviously the NHS, because we have got a great NHS system, regardless of all its problems, it's free, a quick entry and they do what they can. You don't want that to turn into the American system, so you want that maintained, and really the one that's close to my heart is the arts and funding for the arts, because that's something that does get cut, so I want to see what they're going to do there. Other than that it's just a case of watch and see which way things are going, twists and turns daily. The Europe one is a big debate, so... I don't know, I'm very much thinking "oh, where are they going?" As I said to my husband well you're going to have a job for life but I'm never going to work again, so....

I: Can we ask what he does?

Brenda: He is in service security.

I: How about you?

Noah: Contracting, work contracting. How many non permanent flexible contracts they continue to allow the big companies and corporations, minimum wage increased to a living wage, all these sort of things came up quite a lot during the debate. That's the main focus for me, the contracting side of things.

I: Employment issues.

Noah: Employment issues, yeah.

I: Thanks. Nelly?

Nelly: I've been probably... yeah, what they've started to do in terms of the manifesto, the NHS and I heard about potentially wanting to cut the work, jobs, pay around disabled people and things like that. Also, it's been in the news about the big new culture secretary in the BBC. My boyfriend works with BBC so that's a really big bias but also I just think the BBC is part of the country and I don't want to see it damaged, and also I want to read about the European Bill of Human Rights, or something like that, I don't really know it is, but I can't really see any reason why a civilised country would want to get rid of that, from a very broad perspective. As I say, I want to read about that.

I: Thanks for that. Isaac?

Isaac: That's an interesting one, because I think the whole issue of that is just the prisoners votes 19:11 the Human Rights Act ?? But that and Europe, which are connected as far as I am concerned. The biggest thing that really affects me, because I live in Wales, because the vast majority of stuff that's devolved to the Welsh government, which Labour controls, so actually that's one of the reasons I don't like Labour, because I don't like a lot of the devolved things that are going on, and Labour is in full control in Wales and has been for over a decade, so... I have no faith in either of them really. But I'll be looking for the devolved powers, that's what I'm looking for. They've already started talking a little bit about what they're planning to do, but I would hope whatever they offer to Scotland, they offer to Wales, and if we get a little bit more autonomy, because their attitude, it doesn't really matter, they can do what they want with the NHS in England, because we're all right and protected in Wales. We can then, in the Welsh Assembly elections, we can really make our mark there. I think that's what will be interesting, is what we see next time, following this election, what happens next time. I doubt very much if Labour will still be in control.

I: We will be asking you about how this election might be...

Isaac: I am very interested. We will have an in/out referendum; I don't think we will leave, I think we will stay, because those people who voted Conservative, I think they voted on the economy, I don't think they voted on Europe. I actually think that most people will stay, even if they don't want to, because they recognise it. Even if from an economic point of view, I don't think that it would make much difference if we left; I think it would probably be much the same. But from an ideological point of view, from a cultural point of view, I think it makes complete sense to stay in. Stand on your own, be isolated, or be part of a club, have some friends, I think all of us would say let's be part of a club and have some friends, you know.

Natasha: It's one wolf that goes hungry, not the pack.

Isaac: Yeah.

Natasha: I am horrified by the election results. It's all things that I hate have come true with it. So the Conservatives are very much for business and that sort of thing, they are not for the arts. They like science, I'm a scientist, I think it's great they like science, however it doesn't exist in a vacuum and without the arts we lose some of the most wonderful things, and I think they're just going to cut back very quietly. But also going to cut back Blue Sky Science because they don't see what the value of it is. In fact things like arts and Blue Sky Science are the bed rock of what they can make money off. So that horrifies me. I don't think that they care about the environment so I'm worried about fracking being allowed on an economic basis, even the talk of allowing fox hunting again. So all these good things. They mentioned at one stage how much they were going to save on the welfare budget. The people who live in my constituency, a lot of them are on welfare and I don't see them having a lot of cash to splash around, so exactly how they are going to cut from these people, I don't know. All of these things that make Britain into a good place, Tories, taking care of the environment around it, the strong art scene, the ability to come up with all these ideas and science, all these things are going to be undercut and they're going to be encouraging business, because that's what the Tories like. Business is going to be encouraged anyway because everyone likes making money, right? So yeah, that's what worries me.

I2: There was a lot of nodding going on around the room, does anyone want to add their voice to what has been said?

Willem: Yeah, I agree about the BBC, that's an issue, and part of...it's really strong and part of the image that Britain projects outside is BBC dependant, and I think to a large extent that has lots of meaning that doesn't have monetary value. It's totally...you can't buy that kind of thing. They've already slashed backs some of the foreign language things on BBC and I think that's really regrettable.

Nelly: During the course of the election I thought the tabloid papers was just quite disgusting, and I think the BBC is a haven for independent... having the debates and that kind of thing, because I think my impression is that in America the news channels act very much how our tabloids act, and I think having an independent non-partisan TV on the BBC is...

Isaac: It worked surprisingly 24:20 The Sun. Murdock has said "we back the Tories, the Tories win." It does seem in the last 20 or 30 years whichever party he's backed has won the election. One might say actually that's just coincidence, but is it a coincidence that in every election the party that they have backed has won? I mean, are there people out there that listen? There probably are. That scares me. All the more reason why you need the BBC.

Nelly: I think generally I agreed with what you were saying. Firstly about fox hunting, I just think that's indicative of the kind of people... everything that the people throw at the Tories it just proves, and also just the welfare thing again, it's like they're trying to find money from the poorest people in society and putting a cap on the amount of benefits you can get for one household. They don't know what the people in that household are doing, if they're carers, how many children they have or what the extenuating circumstances are. I just think that's a worry as well.

Noah: Legalising fox hunting, it shouldn't be a surprise though. If they're getting support from people in larger... and their friends all like fox hunting, people they're going to get money from, that shouldn't be a surprise to anyone.

Isaac: There can't be many fox hunters.

Natasha: They can still do it; they can do drag hunts!

Willem: But how many people go out.... Oh, I don't know. Maybe I'm just...

Isaac: My understanding is very few hunts have actually closed down since the ban. They just carry on, they just don't hunt foxes, they just run around on their horses and go "tally ho" and it's fine!

Noah: It is a southern British person's pastime so there shouldn't be any surprise that it's being legalised again.

Isaac: Has that being in the news then, that they're going to legalise it again?

Natasha: Yes, and it's spin rollering through.

Noah: It's ridiculous.

Natasha: I'm looking for the opposition and I can find it in varied people but I can't seem to see it in the media or in the government...

Isaac: I've missed that.

Brenda: You wonder what's hiding behind it, because that's so high profile, isn't it?

FR: 26:42

Natasha: We'll wait until August when nobody's reading the papers and see what they bring in, in August.

I: I'm going to do the job the moderator has and say when I left to go to Germany, you try to get the BBC channels from anywhere outside of the UK and it just blocks you. You think, why can't I pay a licence fee... why can't anyone in the world pay a licence fee and access the BBC content online? It just seems to me a very easy business decision to renegotiate contracts with the programmers to allow international distribution of .... anyway.

Willem: There's the World Service, the radio bit, which is really...

I: Yeah, but I want to watch Never Mind the Buzzcocks

Natasha: Yes, but in the last government they...

Willem: You can still get that in some...well the places that I go you can still get it.

Natasha: You can still get it but they slashed the funding to the world service, so it's nowhere near what it was, and they just quietly did it. And the world service changes people's minds around the world.

I: I just think a better business model would be to expand your customer base, not slash your product, but anyway, that's my 2 cents worth. So one of the things we want to get an impression of, because one of the things that changed a lot in the election was the SNP sweep in Scotland, so we're wondering if we could get your impressions of the media coverage and your impressions of what was happening with the Scottish vote and then your reaction to what happened in Scotland and if you think it's a good thing or if you're worried about it or what you think about it in general. You don't have to have an opinion, obviously, on what happened in Scotland but we just want to try and compare a little bit around the country how people are perceiving that. Can we start with Natasha?

Natasha: I thought Nicola Sturgeon was impressive on television, and I know that a lot of the policies she could spout them because, frankly, she didn't have to finance them, but I thought she tapped into an important part of politics that Labour should have tapped into and missed, and that was the retention of public services. Labour were talking about the NHS but they didn't seem to have the thing where they were protecting the NHS as strongly as they were in Scotland. She was just about protecting the things that make the government dear to my heart, so when the SNP won up there I thought everyone really should listen. I'm really glad that the SNP are in there to dilute what's happened in the rest of Britain.

I: Thanks.

Isaac: I just come back from Scotland, it's SNP everywhere, I tell you, and every single person I talked to voted SNP, which bears out in the polls, that half the country voted for them. Knowing Scottish people very well, the only reason the SNP got into power is because the three parties campaigned together in the referendum and the Scottish people looked at those parties and went "they're all English, we have a Scottish party, SNP; I'll vote for the Scottish party!" It's as pure and simple as that. They voted for Scotland, they want Scottish people to have a voice and that's what they have done. I don't think it's any bigger than that. I don't think they looked at the politics, I don't think they looked at the policies, because the one thing that you can count on from Scottish people is that they're anti English and so if all the English parties come and say "hey, we're doing this," they'll go "fine, we'll vote against you!" I'm not worried about it at all, I'm not worried at all. I think they'll be absolutely fine, I think they'll make a positive influence in parliament. I was disappointed Plaid didn't do better to give a better voice for Wales, some sort of unification in Wales and Welsh politics, because I don't think that they do. But that might change. But no, I think it's good. Nicola Sturgeon is great. I think I've heard something about North of Birmingham all want to join Scotland! [laughter] It's fun.

I: Nelly, how about you?

Nelly: I think very much the same actually. I think they've got a good leader, they're very clear about their main policies, and yeah I do think, in a way, they had an easy ride compared to Labour, because I don't think the scrutiny was there about their policies and that kind of stuff because we knew that they weren't going to be running the country as such. But yeah, I've been quite amused actually all week with the thought of 50 SNP people just turning up at the House of Commons. [Laughter] I think "good for them," really.

Noah: It might bring a bit of normality to the House of Commons as well, actual real people around them. The young girl who won, beat them, [over talking] Things like that is what politics should be about, not people from the same set of schools going to the same...into the House of Commons debating the same things, which they've probably discussed what they're going to do months ago. Yeah, a good shake up is impressive. It's probably nothing to do with the politics in Scotland, it's just people want a voice and they want their inequalities to be heard louder, and it probably will spread down, I'm sure northern parts of England do generally want to be as far away from London as possible, and hopefully a similar thing can happen in Wales at some point. It just shows how many people are dissatisfied with London centric policies.

Isaac: I think it will be interesting to see, there hasn't really been a northern party, I'll be surprised if one emerges, the northern English party. It would be interesting to see.

Brenda: Yeah, I was quite a turn up really, it was quite stunning to see Scottish people like that coming round and rallying around their country, quite outstanding. I was disappointed that we didn't have a similar outcome in Wales, in that we didn't gain more seats for Plaid, but I do believe that's a Welsh language issue.

Isaac: Yes

Brenda: We're holding that one back .

Natasha: I disagree. At least we went out there, and Plaid didn't come up with anything interesting for Wales, they didn't say how good Wales is, what they did was they put out the begging bowl and said, "give us what you gave Scotland. Come on, it's your fault because you haven't given us..." If they had given Wales pride instead of giving the begging bowl, I think the Welsh people would have rallied behind that pride. But they didn't project that at all.

Brenda: I think there's something in that, but I think also the history of the party because it was originally set up for the Welsh language.

Isaac: That's the only thing that stops people...(overtalking)

Natasha: Younger voters don't see that as much, I don't think.

I: It's good to hear that, we appreciate it, but...

Brenda: Yeah, to go back to the Scots, I think if 34:06 was back we might have had a few more seats. She wasn't like Nicola Sturgeon. Nicola Sturgeon was very Thatcherite, I think, in her own way. She has very dominant characteristics, and she's leading them off somewhere, it'll be interesting to see where they go!

Willem: It was quite interesting, because she wasn't standing for Parliament but she performed very well and it kept Salmond very, very quiet. There was a thing about his being pushed into a coal mine or something. 34:47 So how you can get someone who wasn't standing to drive something is interesting. The majority of the Scots that I spoke to, they said that the SNP did well because people were just voting anti- Labour, that Labour had taken the Scottish support for granted and they'd neglected constituency work, whereas the SNP are kind of almost what the UKip is doing in the southeast, starting from local councils and moving up. That's just the interpretations. What is my view? I would like to see what happens really, I don't have any feeling apart than that.

I2: Can I just ask, on the back of this, how many of you think that the success of the SNP might lead to a second independence referendum for Scotland? Some not, some people nodding... (Brenda, Noah, Natasha are nodding)

Willem: We'll have to see what happens in parliament and what they do.

Isaac: I think if they get the fiscal things they wanted on there

Willem: But the problem was North Sea oil, isn't it? I mean, if the oil price is rubbish then what's going to be...

Isaac: I think that's the point. I think Nicola Sturgeon now... well my perception is that they wouldn't want it, because they thought there's the cash cow of the north sea oil. But of course that isn't the case at all; they're putting hundreds of billions in to prop that industry up. So actually, yeah, I think they would like all the benefits.... (overtalking)

Willem: They did say they were going to spend, you know

Isaac: Yeah, don't make us independent because... It could get worse. If they go independent... that's one of the things in the referendum, that's why they didn't win, because if they go independent they'll be worse off financially than if they stayed with the rest of us.

I2: Brenda, you thought that there might be a second Independence Referendum. Can you tell us what gives you that impression?

Brenda: I think because the last time was quite close, wasn't it, so I'm assuming with now being so strong, you know, Scotland obviously wants a voice somewhere so if they don't get it through parliament they'll ask for it and have it their own way. They've got a lovely parliament building, lovely! [laughter]

Willem: 37:00

Brenda: It is, isn't it? I was well impressed.

Isaac: And it's open; you can walk into it.

Brenda: Yeah.

Isaac: You can't in the Houses of Parliament.

Brenda: Yeah, and people talk to you when you go in there. It's very welcoming.

WAS THE ELECTION FAIR?

I2: Some of you may remember us telling you we were working with the Electoral Commission and we wanted to know about the registration process. So this is part of that collaboration. The Commission wants to know what people's experiences were with the process of the election, so the actual technicalities. So you go into the voting booth, the location of the voting booth, actually putting your cross and putting it in...how the election is run. So the question we have for you is, do you think the election was run well and was it run in a fair manner. Is there anything that you would like us to bring to their notice?

Natasha: There's one thing. When you go in you simply state your name and where you live and then you do your cross. Nobody checks if you're actually you. I could have gone in and said that I was me, and then gone in when somebody else came on the table and said that I was my neighbour. I mean, I wasn't going go but...

I: Does it feel that it's a bit too easy?

Natasha: Yeah. Just check a driver's licence or something!

Isaac: I did the postal vote and that's even more insecure. There are very few countries in the world that do postal votes, because I mean my wife could have filled my postal vote in and it wouldn't have made a difference, apart from my signature ...

Natasha: Which of course they're going to check.

Isaac: Exactly. So, I mean, I do think we do, in a way, take our democracy for granted, it's okay, that there won't be any corruption, but actually there's a massive potential for someone to really manipulate the votes, if they wanted to.

I2: But in terms of how it was run, there was nothing really that...

Isaac: I thought it was better than the last time, a bit smoother.

Willem: It wasn't raining so it was easy just to walk there. It was a pleasant evening. The people on the tables aren't known to you at all, so you just say who you are, you don't have to have a card or anything. So yeah, you could just go four times to different constituencies, you could do a walking tour of the neighbourhood and vote. So why, do you know why it's so easy, and it's just based on trust.

I: Because it hasn't failed yet. They want to make it easy and then it's always a bit like, oh is it a bit too easy. You want to make it as open as possible, so if people do forget their cards and they can't get home in time then they lose their vote. On the other hand you have this thing where you don't have to have a card, so it's a little bit of a (over talking)

Isaac: There probably aren't that many...

Willem: It's unknown, isn't it

Natasha: Britain have more trouble with actually getting people to the voting booths... [laughter] But still, it's unsettling.

I: You're not the only person who said... I think it's a double edged sword of both making it as accessible as possible but then there's... I think modern, today you're used to pins and verifications

Willem: Could you get a phone app or something like that?

Isaac: It would be interesting if they were going to go electronic, actually. I think that would be interesting, if they did online or an app...

Brenda: They'd get double their votes.

Isaac: I think they would.

Natasha: But the potential there for trust is exacerbated. At least if you've got a person physically going into the booth then you know it's for one person, but if you've got an app that someone could hack into then the potential for the whole thing to be corrupted... not, I would say, it's unlikely to be done by a political party but who it's likely to be done by is some mischievous 15 year old who then goes "you know, it would be really funny if UKIP got in, in central London."

Willem: But that's an entire 41:32

Natasha: So that's what I would worry about with an app or doing it online.

Willem: I do think going there is an expression of intent and purpose it takes you out of doing normal stuff, so there's some kind of intrinsic meaning, possibly, to the act.

I: To the act of voting.

Willem: To the act, yeah, and that you're participating in a nebulous way in a process.

Brenda: I do think there needs to be other ways. I don't know if this is allowed anymore but in the olden days you used to have people knocking on the doors "do you want a lift to the polling station?" But I haven't seen any of that happening at all. So, a generation of infirm and disabled, if they can't get there under their own steam they're not getting there. There used to be...did anybody see this?

I2: In Scotland there was a bit of that. It's party activists who basically take it on themselves to go round. "We know you will support our party; we want to make sure you get to the polls!"

Brenda: Because I can certainly remember growing up and there would be a mega phone on top of somebody's car outside "if you want a lift we're coming around now. We'll take you there and bring you back." I think that needs to be relooked at again if they want more voters to go. And also the postal voting system for a number of students. My daughter wasn't the only one that didn't get a postal vote, there's something obviously gone wrong in the Cardiff constituency and there were some block or not everybody getting a postal vote option, so they missed a student vote as well, and it's the student voice that must be heard.

Isaac: My sister in law was saying they had to physically go because they missed the postal vote.

I: So she didn't receive the postal vote?

Isaac: My only comment to them would be about whether or not the local authority is the correct person to be adjudicating the elections, because I've been to a couple of counts in the past and it's just...this year it was a bit quicker but I mean a few years ago they were horrendous. We didn't get our results until about 8 o’clock in the morning. I just wonder if they need their own staff, the electoral commission, rather than relying on the local authorities.

Noah: Sunderland, parts of it, got the results out at 11:30pm. My one at home, it took to 3pm the following evening, just because they had a couple of islands of the island. It didn't take very long to bring them all together, 3 o'clock. It could have potentially been an undecided majority, because I think they only got it by 5 or 6, and that was a Conservative 50/50 one.

Isaac: Sunderland declared within the hour, didn't they?

Noah: They pride themselves...

Isaac: They do! Who's doing the count there? They must be quick. So yeah, that's the thing, there seems to be a massive difference between different places in the country.

Brenda: You know, that is an issue as well 44:34, because they often ask employees within the council to act the poll clerks and the poll ?? and they get full their full day's salary plus the salary of the poll clerk on top, so they get double paid for taking a day's leave. You know, where is all that cost saving coming from local government, getting paid all that for a day?

Isaac: Exactly

I: So here's a question, do you think in the 21st century paper ballot counting until 4 in the morning is maybe too much of a tradition?

Isaac: I think so.

I: Do you think maybe move to scans, where you just scan, you make a mark and you scan it in and it counts. It just scans, you just make a mark and you just scan it in and it counts...

Isaac: 47:09 the largest democracy in the world, didn't he, and it's all electronic. They go in, they do an electronic vote, it's counted, they have the results within a few hours and it's completely secure and it's 100% efficient. I think they're a model democracy to follow.

I: We have a paper ballot, you put a line across it and then it reads it, so you have a physical copy of the ballot as well as a digital copy, and then at 8 o'clock, because our polls close at 8, you just press a button it reads off a tape and you've got every person's and you just phone it in to the local county and you have the results by 9.

Isaac: I don't like that because [laughter] George W Bush got elected (overtalking)

I2: Different states have different ways of voting.

I: The problem with no paper ballots though is you don't have anybody count, you just press a button, there's no physical evidence of what was done.

I2: You can break... In India one of the things they do is vote rigging, and because of the electronic ballot it's difficult to rig the vote unless you just take off the polling station and destroy the machine!

Isaac: If I press the button that logs the vote in and that's it.

I: The thing is there's no Wi-Fi, so once you log the vote it's stuck in the machine until you can take the card out. But if you destroy the machine it's gone.

Isaac: If people are trusted to do postal votes in this country they're not going to destroy voting machines, are they?

I: That's true.

Willem: I think it's nice, having a drawn out process and you might get swayed one way and you think it's going a different way. So there's some drama to it. So it's all traditional.

Isaac: I suppose it's the 46:57 electronic ?? that's it, you've lost your vote. Ah, don't press UKIP! No! [laughter]

I: Before we come on to a panel for the Welsh assembly for 2016, so the UK is generally not a country where you have a referendum all the time and yet in the last few years you've had the AV referendum, the Scots to have their independence and now you're looking at another EU referendum, and we're just wondering, not about EU in or out, per se, but just the idea of the government coming to the people and asking you guys to vote on policies. Is it something that you'd like or is it something that you don't like? I don't know if anyone has a thought.

Willem: I don't remember that AV thing at all. I presume it happened. I think referenda are okay as an idea but you need to, I suppose... in Switzerland and in some states they have things where they go through propositions, so I think perhaps a few to me that are meaningful would be the thing to do but I think you can have too many of them. So now and then on important things. I think this EU thing a bit symbolic, I don't think it actually it has meaning, in a way. So I think it's not that important. So I'd like this one to be more relevant, like how the NHS is totally state funded and we're prepared to pay more tax to it, or not, or go hybrid. I think EU is just... I don't think it's worth it. I think it's just a sop. So they need to be things that mean more and need to be more important to people.

I: So big issues but not all the time.

Willem: Yes, not kind of fluff.

TOO MANY REFERENDUMS?

I2: Just to catch Noah up, we're asking a question on referenda, or referendum so s, whichever way you want to look at it. There's been quite a few in the last five years and so the question is do you think they're a good thing or a bad thing, what's your general opinion?

Brenda: It's just that way at the moment, you've got to consult on everything with everybody on whatever projects, whatever you do, and it's no different for the government really, except they call it a referenda. I think really you've got to have a majority of voters in to make it worthwhile. If only 30% of the country are going to vote then don't take it as right; if you get 70% to 80% in then let's go with it. I think there's got to be some level of sense applied to any referendum, really, before they act on a decision.

Noah: There needs to be a true education process beforehand if people can vote on, a lot of people don't even know what they are voting on. People are going to say "oh well, this is going to happen." It's the only thing that I do agree with Farage on, is that he does say, they do try 50:07 like Cameron and Miliband, they covered up the fact that we can't control immigration if we stay in the EU. He says we can, you generally can. That doesn't necessarily say that we have to leave the EU, obviously there's a lot of pros to it, the ideological side of things, but it's true, people need to know the pure facts of what it's going to entail but it's going to be covered up, just like the economic drive plan which Cameron built upon this whole election, which has won him the election. There are no pure facts behind the economic drive, jobs, all the other things that come as a result, and he's been independent.

Nelly: That's true. I think probably that's not going to happen, because there will be money for campaigning for one side or the other that comes from God knows where, from people's private insurance and stuff. I think especially the referendum that's coming up now is probably going to damage the confidence in the UK and things like that, and I do think it's more of a political thing that the Conservatives just want to put an end to this ongoing saga, people like pointing fingers at Europe. In the end I do think the turn out probably... I can't believe the turn out for this election was so stay low, so if the turn out is just like that again, it's not very impressive, is it?

Isaac: No. I agree with that, definitely. I like the idea of a referendum, I don't mind voting in a referendum, I'm just not convinced everyone else should vote in them. [laughter] I don't like the way they vote, you know, so... I do worry that it does seem as though the general populous are influenced by the media, are influenced by a whole host of different things and that...I like the idea of a true and free democracy where the government comes and asks you about all the issues and you all vote and then whatever the people vote is what you get, and that's referendum, direct democracy, but I would be very worried if we did do that because I'm not convinced that most of the people in the country share my ideas. Yeah, I think I would say no, 52:32

Natasha: I kind of ?? the idea of a referendum on this, and it is on the basis that hopefully we only will get a 20% to 30% turnout, because I think most people honestly don't give a ****. They really don't care and they're not going to take the time to get educated on it. A lot of them don't have the time, they've got enough things happening in their own lives that the EU just doesn't figure as important. So if they don't and if they're making their decisions on the basis that they heard a news article, they heard something on the radio or something, possibly I don't want them dictating Britain's foreign policy, it would be much better to get the 20% or 30% of people, if that high, who are actually interested in it, who have a pointed view on the EU where they've actually thought about it for a long time, get them to vote, and then I don't really see a problem with the referendum that I 53:37 larger basis, really.

Nelly: People who have voted for UKIP have probably thought about it for a long time. [laughter]

Natasha: They have, and I can't say that I agree with those people and their point of view. But, on the other hand, I think you'll find that there are a lot of people who have quietly sat there going "oh UKIP, they're wrong, somebody's got to get out them and stop them!" And they will also be voting in that election. But those two groups of people are the only ones that feel strongly enough about it to put a cross on a piece of paper.

I2: Can I ask, connected to the EU referendum, because the question on referendums has kind of gone that way, there has been some talk about this country lock on the referendum, which is it's just not the majority of the UK but England separately, Scotland separately, Wales separately and Northern Ireland separately have to all agree, so their populations have to all agree to leave the EU, and there's been some talk about this. I don't know how many of you've heard of it, and if you've heard of it what do you think about it? Will you be in favour of it or it's like it doesn't matter really?

I: Or just a simple majority across...

I2: Is enough?

Noah: I presume it will have different consequences for England and Wales, for instance, funding wise, don't you think? It makes sense then.

Isaac: 55:00 [over talking] a lot more funding from Europe...

Noah: Or you could decide to have it separately, I guess.

Isaac: It would from a land point of view but from a fairness point of view it doesn't because the majority of people live in England. So it's sort of saying that 3 million people in Wales can dictate to the 50 that live in England as to whether or not they leave Europe.

Natasha: The 3 million with a vested interested compared with how many million in England that don't have a vested interest.

Isaac: I agree, and I would love... that would be great if they did do that because then probably we'd stay in the EU. But it does smack a little bit like what my cousin always says "the majority of the minority" dictating politics, and that's his perfect phrase, because in any election you only ever have the majority of a very small number of people that have voted that actually win the election.

I: Good to hear the diversity of opinions on that. Moving on...

How you're going to vote in the Welsh Assembly elections in 2016

I2: So finally, looking forward to 2016, one of the things that we want to know is will this election outcome have any bearing on how you're going to vote in the Welsh Assembly elections in 2016, and what are you looking forward to in the sense of what are you going to be paying attention to for that vote?

I: And again, if you don't have an opinion yet, because they haven't started knocking and dropping lit for the next election, that's okay. But if we want to bring you guys back then we want to know where you were about this time and then we'll have a chat with you about where things are in a year's time. So this one we'll volunteer because people might not have opinions.

Willem: I think it would be quite interesting to know how they position themselves for the Welsh Assembly elections, kind of biased by the outcome this time and I don't know how that's going to pan out. It might just be interesting to see what they do. I don't know what will make me vote, will I vote tactically? I don't know, I think it depends more on local issues rather than wider issues. But in the sense Wales is quite small so local issues might be national issues in a year. So I don't know. I think it will be interesting to see how they 57:29 to try and get votes.

I2: When you say "they" are you meaning the...?

Willem: Most of Labour, in a sense. So what I'd probably like, in a way, is some sort of coalition to have to happen. So probably a dilution in Labour's power and an increase in Plaid's, Lib Dem is futile, Greens would be great, that kind of thing, because it's a different system as well, isn't it? It's like a direct and a different type of thing.

Isaac: It's a weird one. I don't fully understand it because...

Willem: It's quite opaque, isn't it?

Isaac: ...part of it is first past the post and part of it is list [??] It seems to me if Wales ...if the Welsh Assembly control their own voting, which I assume they do, is that right? They could change the voting system.

Willem: 58:20 settlement, isn't it?

Isaac: Yes. I will be really interested to see which parties say we want to go to full proportional representation for Wales. That would make me vote for them; that would really make me vote for them.

Willem: It's a hybrid system at the moment.

Isaac: I think if Plaid did that I'd vote by them. We had the discussion, didn't we, about Plaid, about the begging bowl, but I think it's a really important point, because since they formed the Barnett formula they've been underfunding Wales for 30 years, so they owe us 40 billion.

Natasha: No! We have to make it ourselves!

Isaac: I know we do, but the point is Scotland is where it is because it's had a lot more money put at it so...

Natasha: And North Sea oil may have had something to do with it. But Wales has so many things going for it. If only Wales... I don't feel like it picks itself up and puts itself forward. They are just starting to do a few things in the city. I said science is my thing, so when I look at that and I look at some of the new things that they are doing to try and make it more of a science hub, I go "yes!" That is going to bring in money, that is going to pull in high paying jobs, that is going to lift everything in Wales. But what we want to see is we want to see people doing that and not saying "oh, you know, we want this in order to make it happen." No, we want to see people making it happen themselves. I want to see a government that instils that in the people, not sits there going, " look at the Valleys, they've had such a hard time." Yes, they have had a hard time and you don't sit there making pitying noises, what you want to do is go "right, and now this is going to happen and you can be a part of it." Let's bring it out and give people that... and if a party did that then bang, we'll be there, and proportional representation, because first past the post really 60:21

Isaac: Definitely, it does.

I: Thank you for expressing concern about Labour dominance, and you say that in the assembly you would like to see more diversity of...

Isaac: Definitely, because I mean, following on from that point, that point about someone champion for Wales, even from the very simple point of the funding there's disagreement on whether we should or not, but Plaid have been the only people who have said. Labour have been in power since inception of the government and they've never said actually, it's a bit unfair that we get much less money than this place or that place. They never really made the argument. I do think, I don't think it's healthy for a single party to dominate a parliament forever more, I think that's really bad for democracy and politics, and I agree and I would hope it's a coalition, I would hope it's more than that, I hope it's a complete change.

Willem: Do you see that as being real, because if you look at the numbers for Merthyr, and Kinnock's son, I mean that was just a process, a procession.

Isaac: The interesting thing was that UKip came third overall in Wales. So UKip will gain seats in the assembly, most certainly, and I'm hoping that what happens is the other parties, they get the same and that we actually get a bit of diversity. I hope we get a proportion...if someone comes up with that then I'll roll with them, regardless of who they are.

I: Any other thoughts on the assembly elections, preferences for Labour continuing or more diversity of parties?

Nelly: I do think it's been a little bit... because obviously Labour having 30 out of 60 seats in the Welsh Assembly but then just having complete control, that's not a brilliant representation of how people are voting. So, I do think it's all to play for, because I do think there's been... you've been able to see through this and hopefully the Welsh Assembly. Quite a lot of the parties, especially the Lib Dems and people, have been distancing themselves quite a lot from Westminster. So I think they are just going to... and Labour, to an extent, as well, so I think they're just going to start campaigning on very much Welsh issues and try and gather a lot of votes. But there has been a coalition in the past.

Isaac: There has, Plaid and Labour

Nelly: Not since I've been here so I don't know really know what that would be, look like, feel like.

Isaac: Well I think they were very much, it was only a handful, it was very, very small.

Willem: They had to 62:51 for the budget to go through, some Lib Dems [??] had to buy into the budget.

Isaac: That's right. That's the interesting thing in the general election, the Welsh Conservatives did really well, didn't they, because they campaigned on very local issues for Wales, not on national issues, and I think the Lib Dems are very good at that actually in Wales, for AMs. So I think they might do okay, actually. They might get wiped out elsewhere but I don't think they will in Wales.

Nelly: I think they're going to be very targeted on individual areas, they'll going to look at the demographic and say "this looks like a potential seat for us," and really go for it.

Isaac: It's interesting because of the list thing, because I send off these emails sometimes to the assembly members, and Andrew RT Davies, Kirsty Williams and Leanne Wood , they're all our AMs for Cardiff, because they're on the list for south Wales. So you get all three party leaders! You get some of the ramifications though.

Willem: So who responds best to you though?

Isaac: Andrew RT Davies is the person who responds best. It's the bizzarist of things, he's the man that responds most frequently. But bizarrely, we've got all three of the party leaders in our list for AMs

I: I think that's everything. So we'll finish this up because, as you said, there's less to talk about afterwards. But you guys have been fantastic, we really appreciate your opinions. As we said, we're going to be putting in a grant application to do this for the Parliament and the Assembly in 2016.

Isaac: I hope you get it.

I: Thanks. We'll say our participants are very keen. We hope you found it a positive experience, and if you do move, or whatever, please update us, keep in touch with us, because even if you're not in the Cardiff area we would still like to keep you as part of a panel, and keep up with the website and our YouTube channel and everything else. Thank you so much for your time.

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