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Dundee Post 1

THE QUALITATIVE ELECTION STUDY OF BRITAIN 2015

Dundee Post-election Focus Group 3 (full)conducted May 13th 2015

Transcribed Focus Groups Dataset

Version 1.0

Date of release: 13 February 2016

Principal InvestigatorDr. Edzia Carvalho, University of Dundee

International Co-InvestigatorDr. Kristi Winters, GESIS, Cologne

Research AssistantMarcel Gehrke, GESIS, Cologne

Funded by British Academy and Leverhulme Trust Small Grant SG142740

and supported by Carnegie Corporation of New York, GESIS-Leibniz Institute (Cologne) and University of Dundee

QESB Contacts

[email protected] [email protected] [email protected]

www.qesb.info

1Transcribed by: Just Write Secretarial Services, Belfast, Northern Ireland. Contact: [email protected]

‘QESB’qualesb2015 @qualesb

mailto:[email protected]

Dundee Post 1

READ ME

Transcribed Focus Groups Dataset Version 1.0

On copyright and attribution

Copyright of this transcript belongs to Dr. Edzia Carvalho and Dr. Kristi Winters. Individuals may re-use this document/publication free of charge in any format for research, private study or internal circulation within an organisation. You must re-use it accurately and not present it in a misleading context. You must acknowledge the author, the QES Britain project title, and the source document/publication.

Recommended citation: Carvalho, E. and K. Winters. 2015. 'The Qualitative Election Study of Britain 2015 Dataset', version 1.0. Funded by British Academy and Leverhulme Small Grant SG142740 and supported by GESIS, Carnegie Corporation, and University of Dundee. Available at: http://wintersresearch.wordpress.com

On the transcription

All participants’ names have been changed and any direct or indirect identifiers removed to protect their anonymity

The transcripts in Version 1.0 do not have enhanced data recovery including non-verbal communication. It includes the basic transcription of words said by participants. The participants have been identified through attribution by the moderator or other participants and by an initial attribution by the investigators. Subsequent versions of the dataset will verify attribution of participants by video identification.

The transcripts in this version also do not include extensive instructions given to participants at the beginning of the groups, introductions by participants, and exchanges between participants and moderators during exercises.

Initial Transcription by: Just Write Secretarial Services, Belfast, Northern Ireland. Contact: [email protected]

Reporting conventions used

We have used ** to indicate words, phrases or sentences which we could not hear.

Italic font indicates we have taken a guess at a word/name etc.

Words in parentheses {} indicate physical gestures or what can be heard on the tape but cannot be clearly articulated into specific words.

Removal of direct and indirect identifiers are set off with + word +



Dundee Post 3

Date of focus group: 13 May 2015

Location: University of Dundee, Dundee

Moderator 1: Dr. Kristi Winters

Moderator 2: Dr. Edzia Carvalho

Participants:

2015 Alias Sex Special Category Age group Supporter Party Strength Pre Group Post Group Constituency 2015 vote preferenceClare F Y 65-72 Y SNP 6 Dundee Dundee 3 Dundee East Y, and party

Jeremy M Y 26-33 Y Green 5 Dundee Dundee 3 Dundee West Y, not which party

Danielle F 42-49 Y SNP 4 Dundee LD 1 Dundee 3Dundee West Y, and party

Hal M Student 18-25 Y Tory 5 Dundee LD 2 Dundee 3South West Wiltshire Y, and party



DUNDEE POST 3

ContentsVOTE CHOICE STORY.................................................................................................................................9

Clare....................................................................................................................................................10

Clare....................................................................................................................................................10

Clare....................................................................................................................................................10

Clare....................................................................................................................................................11

Clare....................................................................................................................................................12

Clare....................................................................................................................................................12

Jeremy.................................................................................................................................................12

Hal:......................................................................................................................................................14

Jeremy.................................................................................................................................................15

Hal.......................................................................................................................................................15

Hal.......................................................................................................................................................15

Clare....................................................................................................................................................16

Hal.......................................................................................................................................................16

Danielle...............................................................................................................................................17

Danielle...............................................................................................................................................18

Danielle...............................................................................................................................................18

Danielle...............................................................................................................................................18

Danielle...............................................................................................................................................18

Hal.......................................................................................................................................................19

Danielle...............................................................................................................................................19

Clare....................................................................................................................................................19

Clare....................................................................................................................................................20

WAS THE ELECTION FAIR?.......................................................................................................................20

Jeremy.................................................................................................................................................20

Jeremy.................................................................................................................................................20

Clare....................................................................................................................................................21

Clare....................................................................................................................................................21

Clare....................................................................................................................................................21

Danielle...............................................................................................................................................22



DUNDEE POST 3

Clare....................................................................................................................................................22

Danielle...............................................................................................................................................22

Hal.......................................................................................................................................................22

Jeremy.................................................................................................................................................22

Hal.......................................................................................................................................................22

Jeremy.................................................................................................................................................22

Danielle...............................................................................................................................................23

Clare....................................................................................................................................................23

Hal.......................................................................................................................................................23

Clare....................................................................................................................................................23

Danielle...............................................................................................................................................23

Clare....................................................................................................................................................23

Jeremy.................................................................................................................................................23

Clare....................................................................................................................................................23

Hal.......................................................................................................................................................23

TO WHICH POLICIES WILL YOU PAY ATTENTION?...................................................................................23

Danielle...............................................................................................................................................24

Clare....................................................................................................................................................24

Danielle...............................................................................................................................................24

Clare....................................................................................................................................................24

Danielle...............................................................................................................................................24

Jeremy.................................................................................................................................................24

Jeremy.................................................................................................................................................25

Danielle...............................................................................................................................................25

Hal.......................................................................................................................................................25

Danielle...............................................................................................................................................26

Jeremy.................................................................................................................................................26

Hal.......................................................................................................................................................26

Clare....................................................................................................................................................26

Danielle...............................................................................................................................................27

Clare....................................................................................................................................................27

Clare....................................................................................................................................................27



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Danielle...............................................................................................................................................27

Clare....................................................................................................................................................27

Danielle...............................................................................................................................................27

TOO MANY REFERENDUMS?...................................................................................................................27

Jeremy.................................................................................................................................................28

Danielle...............................................................................................................................................28

Danielle...............................................................................................................................................28

Jeremy.................................................................................................................................................28

Hal.......................................................................................................................................................29

Jeremy.................................................................................................................................................29

Hal.......................................................................................................................................................30

Jeremy.................................................................................................................................................30

Danielle...............................................................................................................................................30

Hal.......................................................................................................................................................30

Danielle...............................................................................................................................................30

Hal.......................................................................................................................................................30

Clare....................................................................................................................................................30

Danielle...............................................................................................................................................31

Danielle...............................................................................................................................................31

Clare....................................................................................................................................................32

Danielle...............................................................................................................................................32

Jeremy.................................................................................................................................................32

Danielle...............................................................................................................................................32

Clare....................................................................................................................................................32

Jeremy.................................................................................................................................................32

Clare....................................................................................................................................................32

Jeremy.................................................................................................................................................32

Clare....................................................................................................................................................33

Jeremy.................................................................................................................................................33

Clare....................................................................................................................................................33

Hal.......................................................................................................................................................33

Clare....................................................................................................................................................33



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Danielle...............................................................................................................................................33

Clare....................................................................................................................................................33

Hal.......................................................................................................................................................33

Clare....................................................................................................................................................33

Hal.......................................................................................................................................................33

Jeremy.................................................................................................................................................34

Hal.......................................................................................................................................................34

Danielle...............................................................................................................................................34

Clare....................................................................................................................................................34

Clare....................................................................................................................................................34

DO THE CONSERVATIVES HAVE A MANDATE?........................................................................................34

Jeremy.................................................................................................................................................35

Danielle...............................................................................................................................................35

Hal.......................................................................................................................................................35

Clare....................................................................................................................................................35

Danielle...............................................................................................................................................35

Clare....................................................................................................................................................35

Hal.......................................................................................................................................................35

Clare....................................................................................................................................................36

Hal.......................................................................................................................................................36

Hal.......................................................................................................................................................36

Jeremy.................................................................................................................................................36

Danielle...............................................................................................................................................36

Clare....................................................................................................................................................36

Clare....................................................................................................................................................37

Jeremy.................................................................................................................................................37

Hal.......................................................................................................................................................37

Danielle...............................................................................................................................................37

Danielle...............................................................................................................................................37

Hal.......................................................................................................................................................38

Jeremy.................................................................................................................................................38

Clare....................................................................................................................................................38



DUNDEE POST 3

Hal.......................................................................................................................................................38

Danielle...............................................................................................................................................38

Hal.......................................................................................................................................................38

Danielle...............................................................................................................................................38

Hale.....................................................................................................................................................38

Jeremy.................................................................................................................................................38

Danielle...............................................................................................................................................38

Hal.......................................................................................................................................................38

Clare....................................................................................................................................................39

Clare....................................................................................................................................................39

Clare....................................................................................................................................................39



DUNDEE POST 3

Transcript

VOTE CHOICE STORY

I2: You're obviously signing in advance of payment; that's on record.

I: Just like last time, we're interested in everyone's reactions because we want a full range of responses. So it's really important. If you're happy with the result, we want to hear, if you're not happy, we want to hear, if it's a mixed we want to hear. This is going to be really vital for our data, we're going to get a good mix of how voters are reacting to it and how they're thinking about the next couple of months and going ahead.

I2: In terms of the consent form, the form that you signed earlier applies to this round as well. So again, if you have any questions, any enquiries, any concerns, just feel free to raise them, and as Kristi mentioned, what we're interested in is your vote choice decision. So you have already indicated which way you voted, I haven't checked them so you're going to have to tell us again which way you voted, and why you voted in the way you did. What factors led up to you making that decision. Your experience of voting day, if you thought the election was fair and well run, your reactions to the government, and of course we'll come to that a little later, what you think of the new government, whether it has a mandate, what you expect is going to happen. So this is basically the ground that we want to cover. We'll start with your stories about your vote choice and about election day. So, like I said earlier, what we're interested in is how you made up your mind to vote and how long before you cast your ballot did you make up your mind to vote? What factors affected that choice? And then of course what you did after you cast your vote? Did you watch the news coverage? Did you go back to work? Did you go to bed and say "okay, I'm done?" What you did when you heard the results? I think from some of you, at least, you stayed up. What did you feel when the results started coming out? What did you do after? We want you to run us through that story, those couple of days. And maybe we'll start with Clare?



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Clare: I'm an SNP supporter. I choose SNP because I think they were the party for Scotland, and even more so as time went on, you realised that they were for the people, they wanted to get rid of austerity and help the people, and for too long Scottish people have put to the back burner, the Westminster party have just tucked us away to the side, "oh, just to keep them quiet." So that was the reason I voted. And because of disappointment in the referendum. I had taken part in the referendum, as you know, in canvassing and things, so I was determined this time that it would happen. So I was quite an active member of leafleting and things like that. As I said to the chap before, going around the streets, dropping leaflets, talking to people, getting their views, helping them if they didn't understand, because quite a lot of the young people who voted yes had never voted in their life before, didn't understand what the next stage was. So I was explaining to them the choices of what they could have, that this was the next stage, because they didn't know anything about it. Not everyone, but quite a few. On the day of polling I met my colleague at 9 in the morning and we went around Douglas making sure that people knew it was voting day, because sometimes the older people forget that that's the actual day, and votes are crucial. So just going round checking, we did loads and load of checking that they were aware that it was voting day. If they weren't in we put a leaflet through their door to remind them that it was voting day. So even if we didn't get them in we wanted to make sure that they knew it was voting day. We did that till 2 o'clock and then went back to base and took our lunch. They had soup on and bits and pieces. And then we went out again, and then we got a phone call to say we had to go round the four polling stations to get the numbers... what people... I can't remember what the...

I: The count.

Clare: Yeah, the count, to see what...

I: How the turnout was.

Clare: The chap I was with, he's been doing it for years, so he's been doing it that long he's actually an honourable member of the SNP. So I was in good hands. So we went into four different counts, 14:27, Douglas, Community



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Centre,??, and then we went back to base to give them the figures, and then we got a cup of tea and then we went out again. Because it was getting later then, it was about 8 o'clock, we went back and we put in the ones we couldn't get round, because we had quite a lot we couldn't get round, and then we got a phone call to say that someone needed a lift in Whitfield to get to their polling station, so I was taxi-ing as well. This lady gets in, "oh, that's awful good of you", took her to the polling station, comes back, drops my colleague off, my husband had a bath ready, I just had a nice bath and then got ready, because I was on the count at night. When we got there it was about 9:30. So I parked the car, come out and then set up things. My job is to make sure that these votes weren't damaged, so counted the polling ones first and then after that my job was to check that the votes that I was counting were all in the proper count? So when you do the count you count the oppositions ones, you don't count your own, really. So what you do, when they first all come in they all come in in a big pile, they go through them, they open them up but they don't actually put them in piles, they just open them up and your job is to keep watching and just to do a quick count of what's going on. The box I got, David who was supposed to be helping me, couldn't keep up, all the votes came out and it was just magic! Magic! You're supposed to do a count, they come round with the sheets and keep picking them up when all the boxes come in. There was three people, it was just a rough guide, and I'm going... You're supposed to do 1 2 3 4... I was panicking. My sheet had 8 Conservatives, 15 Labour, I think there was 1 Green and 270 SNP. Now, can you imagine? It was just like wow! So that was the first one, and then they go away and they put them in the pigeon holes to sort them out.

I: Maybe just so we get through everybody you could speed up a little bit.

Clare: After that, your job is when they're doing the voting I have to look and see if there are any of our votes mixed in with the opposites. It was always a 18:11. So I finished up and just looked over and if was like magic, all the tables round me were SNP votes. So the poor souls had to count them, they had to pull anybody from there onto the SNP to count all the votes, and then the opposition just gave up looking for spare ones among 550,000 votes, so they just gave up in the end. The young chap beside me, he was from Labour,



DUNDEE POST 3

I felt sorry for him because he was absolutely gutted. He just didn't realise just how much of a thumping there was going to be. I felt sorry for him, because he was just a young boy. When they announced the vote, we kind of knew... But I'll tell you, the thing that hit me, and they didn't show it on TV, the Labour, Lesley, she wasn't very gracious. She actually got booed because she was.... she was not gracious at all. She started off her speech and then the next minute oh, she was really vicious, vile, and everybody just started booing. They wouldn't have done that normally but because she was attacking...everyone else was happy to accept.

I: Did you vote by postal vote, because you didn't say you voted?

Clare: I didn't do postal vote, because of the referendum, because it was a big issue. So I voted personally. I didn't actually vote until about 4 o'clock, because I had forgotten that I hadn't actually voted. I was walking down the street and they were saying to me "we've just been to the polling station, have you voted yet?" I said "David, I'm going to have to go back to the polling station to vote." Imagine, forgetting to vote... I was just so excited.

I: How did you feel when you saw the overall result, that the SNP had done phenomenally well in Scotland but it was going to be a Tory/Conservative government with a small majority?

Clare: Probably at that time we didn't really know, and the whole point was it doesn't really make any difference to us whether it's Labour or Conservative because they're both going to be doing cuts anyway. It was just two different routes to get to where we want to go, just two different roads to go. So from our point of view it doesn't matter whether it was Labour or Conservative, really. That's just my opinion, as in what we're saying here. We were just happy getting what we set out to do and then the leaders will take it from there.

I2: Thank you very much Clare. Jeremy?

Jeremy: My day was a lot different from that. It was my 30th birthday on Thursday and I had a day off work, and I had to go see my dad in hospital after a heart operation, so it wasn't quite my main focus on the day. I got up



DUNDEE POST 3

relatively early, I think it was 9.30 I went and voted. It was just around the corner from the house. So I went about doing errands and things I had to do. But now it's different because you can look at your phone and there's still jokes and meanings and the insights and the observations throughout the day, so I am still feeling very engaged with it. I voted SNP in the end. I was swithering with Green last time I was in here. My official prediction after the last week was 35 SNP, I thought that was possibly it, because I come from the borders and I thought they're polling high but it was still neck in neck, and I thought there's still a Conservatism, there's still tribalism, there's still people 22:16 "I'm not going to vote for that." It's a big jump so I didn't feel that it was going to be our way, especially last week when there was 2 or 3 Labour voters. You forget, when you're in your own bubble, that there are people who are still voting Labour. As much as you think it's an SNP town, it's not a foregone conclusion at all. I chose the SNP because I thought they're probably the most credible, now mentioned party who are closest to my views, rather than the Greens. The Greens, I don't think yet, have enough clout. I voted SNP because I still want independence and I think that's still... a strong SNP voice is more conducive to independence further down the line. Later on that night we went out to the pub and we saw the exit poll coming in just short of 10, and I was very disappointed to see the Tory majority. I genuinely thought it was going to be a Labour/ SNP situation or perhaps Lib Dem ... perhaps there was going to be some coalition shenanigans, but just the fact that the Tories increased their vote and how UKIP polled so well was really disappointing. There are two discussions in British politics. There's the Scottish one, which is more progressive, more hopeful, and more optimistic, and then there's England, which seems to be nudging further to the right and further to a much more narrow narrative, more over fear than hope, to my eyes. That was quite gutting to see that. As much as you can take 23:43 from Jim Murphy and Danielle Turner losing their seat, it's still gutting to think that now there's a majority in Westminster who don't have the Lib Dems at least putting some break on what they're doing. And what we've heard so far, foxhunting, human rights, welfare caps coming in, as much as you think that it's good for Scotland in the long term, who's going to suffer in the short term?



DUNDEE POST 3

I2: Thank you. Hal?

Hal: I voted... I'm from the Southwest of England, so I was actually back home on polling day, and I voted Conservative, mainly because I come from a rural farming background and absolutely no other party really had anything going for them when it comes to what farmers get. Where I am, it's a fairly safe Tory seat anyway, and I was weighing up between the Conservatives and Liberal Democrats but, for me, I felt that I had to vote Conservative, because my two main priorities... Where I live, the two big things that affect us are the armed forces and agriculture. I think for the security of both of those I felt personally that Conservative was really the only option. I actually voted at home and flew back up, because I've got exams next week, I flew back up to Scotland that day. So it was at the end of polling in Dundee and you did very much get the feeling that...Dundee, I always thought, was going to be SNP; there was no two ways about it. It was the main hub of the Yes Campaign, and I've always very much been personally of the view that I will happily accept anyone for whoever they vote for, which slightly upsets me now that you're getting all these protests in London and people complaining about the whole voting system when there was, actually after the last election, there was that yes or no to AV and people voted no to that and now came back complaining about it. I also feel that, had there been the same but with a Labour majority, would the people be out... and I feel now that it's actually just a lot more Tory bashing, I think that's the thing to go for, and I would say irrelative if I voted Conservative or not, I do think to the extent that if you look... and yes, I know... I can't remember what the final percentage was of Conservative, even if you ignored the whole seat thing, which I admit probably does need some work on it, but if you ignore all that, there was still a Tory majority overall with the total amount of votes cast. I do think if democracy , people protest because they do hate the idea of the Conservative Party. That's fine but if democracy has stood, democracy has spoken, it has done wonderful things for Scotland. The people of Scotland wanted to have an SNP majority and that has been achieved, though I think there are lots of people, this is probably the wrong words to use, but are actually going out and being sore losers and then are grabbing anything and pulling up things that they think are likely to happen and just saying things like the



DUNDEE POST 3

Conservatives are going to make children starve. I think it's just a lot of black listing propaganda that's going out against them. I would say that even if I had...my personal views is that I am not naturally a strong conservative voter, I describe myself as a sort of right winged liberal, is probably the best way to...

Jeremy: Small seat 27:48 Conservative.

Hal: Yeah. I think what people are most upset about is they think of the opinion polls...but I think the argument for the opinion polls is, 1, the opinion polls made... and people actually have the right to tell anyone that they can...no one has to tell anyone who they're voting for, that's part of it, and also because it's now one of those things that actually it's very unfashionable to vote anything right of centre, so some people are quite loud and outspoken about their sort of UKip views. But I think that's why everyone is so shocked, because people aren't prepared to go out and say I voted Conservative. You'll find a lot of people who are posting online and going, "oh, I voted for Labour; how did this happen?" because the large majority, I think, aren't prepared to say that they would vote Conservative.

I: When did you find out what the result was and how did you feel about it?

Hal: I watched the election coverage. When I saw the exit polls I was slightly shocked. I had gone with the whole... I had been following the opinion polls and I genuinely thought it was going to be a hung parliament and I thought actually that will probably be even more of a disaster, because the way it was looking, it was going to be a hung parliament with a slight Tory majority and a few more Lib Dem seats, and I think you would have just got a complete direct cut down the middle of half and half and Westminster will turn off the next five years. I am not saying that won't happen. So when I saw the exit polls it gave me a slightly better view, because I realised that it wasn't going to be split completely half and half, with half of the country wanting one thing and half wanting the other. When I found out that it was a Conservative majority, overall I was happy because that is what I voted for. I was shocked at the amount of Lib Dem seats that had been lost in Scotland and that one or two Lib Dem people that I was actually quite sad to see go just because I



DUNDEE POST 3

thought they were quite good for Scotland, such as Charles Kennedy. I know he has a tarnished track record but I actually thought his heart of hearts was in the right place. Overall I thought it was... I was happy to see the outcome, I was happy to see that actually... the only thing I would have like to see more was probably a higher percentage turnout of people going to vote. I'm all for as many people getting involved in politics as possible. Even if you go and spoil your ballot paper, at least you have made some active decision, and what irritated me is that having had conversations with people who now are actively complaining about what happened and they didn't themselves go and vote, or people who on the day just went , "I can't vote," and I was going "how come?" "oh, we didn't register." I mean, every single television station actively told people that you had to register by this date, and it went on for months prior to it, and for me, it upsets me if people are prepared to complain about something that they have the ability to make an impact on. That's my view. I think you shouldn't be able to complain about it as much if you took an active role. Even go and spoil your ballot paper but you've still done something.

Clare: It's a bit like supporting a football team and then you go to the pub but you don't go to see them but you voice... My husband hates that, just exactly like you're saying, you're annoyed at them doing that. It's like somebody that supports a football team that don't go to matches and then they sit and give their opinion of what went on in the match. Is that how you feel?

Hal: I just think that you have every right to complain but at the same time I feel we're working with the system that we have currently, that is before the election everyone knows that's how our political system, democratic system works within this country. So when you go and vote, you vote accepting that fact. At the same time, every single person over the age of 18 who is a British citizen has the right to vote. So therefore, in my view, every person who wants to be able to complain about politics and want to make an impact on politics should therefore go and vote, otherwise I do feel that you still have the right to complain but you shouldn't really be complaining about it as



DUNDEE POST 3

much because you had an option to make a difference but you chose not to. That's my view on it.

I2: Great thank you.

Danielle: On the day itself I watched some bits and pieces of coverage. I had actually been ill for the few weeks before and I'd been kind of stuck, not able to get out of the house, and I had taken to reading Twitter, which was the best discovery ever because I found some of the parody accounts, and there's one on there of Malcolm Tucker from "The Thick of It" and it is absolutely fantastic. So I was kept busy doing that. I took my son up, voted, I always take him along so he knows what to do, and then just went and waited. And I'm an SNP member, I have supported them for ages, I had actually voted for Chris Law to be the candidate, so I voted for him. I deliberately selected him over other candidates, one was a councillor and I didn't want anybody who just went through the mill of council things and "this is the way it's done" and all the rest of it, and I really liked Chris Law because he had such a varied background and seemed like quite a sound guy. So, yes my other half got all ready in his way, printed off sheets so he could tick things off. He's actually English and hasn't spent quite as long with this Scottish habit of everything going wrong at the last minute, so he was kind of terrified that it was all going to go wrong, so he got a bit over excited and ended up going to sleep at about 3 am on the upstairs landing, tired and emotional. I stayed up till 10 the next day, and it was such a social experience. I ended up on Facebook talking with one of my pals, who I haven't actually seen since we were at school, and we discovered each other a couple of years ago. It was all things like that going on. I also discovered that another friend that I haven't seen since I was at uni 25 years ago. Her sister was standing in 35:14 but unfortunately she didn't get elected. Yeah so it was really...I did expect something to go horribly wrong at the last minute, but it didn't, so that was interesting.

I2: So you stayed up till 10 and you covered all the exit poll, the results and then you went to bed?

FR: Yes, completely crashed.



DUNDEE POST 3

I2: And on the next day you....

Danielle: It was difficult. I put down "mixed" for the country as a whole, because a lot of my friends are absolutely gutted that Labour didn't get in, but Labour's campaign was so appalling, I really don't know what was going on.

I2: Was it Labour in Scotland or do you think the entire Labour...

Danielle: I can't remember if it was Labour in Scotland. It was mostly friends in England and Wales were upset, because they had voted Labour. It was very difficult to try to describe to them how we had found Labour just as objectionable as the Tories up here, but it was kind of different. It's been very very interesting, especially things like media, that has been just unbelievable. Somebody in the Daily Telegraph is going to have an aneurism any time now. I mean, the vitriol they're coming out with is unbelievable. "We voted the wrong way apparently, we have all been taken over and brain washed. There is a cult." They just keep going on about it and it's really not the best tact to take.

I: When you say that Labour's campaign was appalling, can you expand on that? What about it did you find...

Danielle: Anthony Stone and things like that, it was quite difficult. You would like to say look at these parody accounts of Malcolm Tucker and things, and it was all beginning to merge and you couldn't actually tell who was real and who was fake anymore, because some of the actual politicians were coming out with things that were just as bizarre. It seemed to be like "oh God, think up something," and they would just blurt it out! Yes, it was just all...

I: They were putting up stuff that you were connecting with...

Danielle: There didn't seem to be anything positive. Like I said, most of my friends in England and Wales supported Labour and they were despairing because all they kept on about was that they were not going to work with



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SNP, and it was just like will you just say something that you are going to do? And they didn't.

Hal: I think that has actually has become very much... especially with this whole televised debate system, a lot of it, and it infuriated me about the referendum as well, because all of it, for me, seemed to be very much people saying why you shouldn't vote people, and very few positive arguments as to why you should, and all of this thing of "Labour will set us back in the dark ages", "oh Tory will just have their fat city chums." As much as I am bored with the whole television debate thing, I think that anything that gets people actively involved in politics and gives politics a view front, that I really, really agree with any of that, but the two issues that I have about it is it makes politics very much a PR central, everything comes down to PR and how you can put forward a character, and people saying "oh I wouldn't vote for Ed Miliband because it's Ed Miliband," or "I wouldn't vote for David Cameron because it's David Cameron," I think it should actually come down to do you think he could run a country not how he comes across on TV. But also this other thing, because people automatically have a right of response, and they have an instantaneous right to response, they then have the ability to go and shoot someone down, and it's not a lot of people going, if someone says "he could do this but we'll do it better" it's more "no, they'll fail on this, they'll fail on that," and I think it's made the whole political campaign very negative. That's just my opinion; I might be completely wrong.

Danielle: But you think it automatically puts people off; it just turns out to be a slagging match. Also what you said about first past the post, Labour suddenly decided that it isn't fair. I mean, the irony of that. That's why the Scottish Parliament doesn't do it that way, because there's so many favourite ways to do it. That is the way it's run at the moment and yes it does need to be looked at.

Clare: Just the young chap, Hal, said there, you went on about the referendum and said that people voted not knowing if they should accept and all of it, have you ever wondered why the SNP are so powerful and people came out in thousands to vote?



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I: I think that's beyond the scope of our post election.

Clare: Oh, sorry, I was just trying to say to him...

I: It's more about getting everyone's views rather than having a back and forth...

WAS THE ELECTION FAIR?

I2: I mean, some of the things that you've already touched upon, in fact Clare has already touched upon about her experience in the election count, so I just want to find out what you thought about the election itself. Did you think it was fair, the process, and how it was conducted?

I: Was it well run, did you hear any problems with fraud or are you concerned about any of the...

I2: So aside from the PR and the first past the post.

Jeremy: I think, on the scale of it, there's cases that get blown out of proportion, and unfortunately there's a massive conspiracy theory position with a lot of Yes people. There was a lot of people last year who took the No vote to say "well, it must be rotten in some way." There was a lot of paranoia about it, and there are tens of millions of people going to vote, there's going to be people who cheat, there's going to be fraud, it's a very small case and everybody who's involved in it are doing it for the right reason. You have to trust the electoral staff and the officials. I think that it's blown so out of proportion, and I don't know about yourself but the day after on Facebook it was people saying "well, what about this case?" And there's one person in Glasgow who use this one name." It doesn't make a difference, on the scheme of things. There will be small petty events of crime but for the most part it's a peaceful, democratic and well run process.

I: And this time you felt like it was well run...

Jeremy: I thought it was well run last year.



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I: We're just talking about this election now, we're just talking about the most recent one.

Clare: When we were at the count we were getting word in that some of the ballot boxes had gone missing in England and then there was things like two of the candidates were left off the sheet, one was Labour and one was something else. They've got to have now probably a rerun because the counters had left off seemingly the poll ones were okay but they had left them off the ballot sheets, so that....

I: I think there was 86 or something...

I2: UKip

I: Yeah, the UKip candidate.

Clare: There were pockets of things, and you just immediately thought, "Right, this is going to come out now, because now they will see what we went through and how we made sure this time that it wasn't going to happen again." There was some of the ballot papers on Dundee had blobs on them, and we got that sorted out, the postal votes, because if you have got blobs on them they're classed as...

I2: 43:51

FR: Yeah. So there was some put out and because of ... I know what you're saying, you're saying it's got...

I: We need to focus on this election though.

Clare: Well, that's what I am saying. This election we made sure that it wasn't going to happen again. So we were fine. But if you notice now, things are coming out in England, things that happened to our referendum that's happening down in England, and don't be surprised, I wouldn't be surprised if it's all going to come out, that there's been stuff going on, because even the Conservatives were so shocked that they had such a majority lead. You read it in the papers, they were shocked that they were so far ahead, and Labour



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were so shocked as well because they were so far behind. So just from my point of view, don't be surprised if things will be coming out.

I2: Hal and Danielle, what do you think? Did you think that the election was well run and fair?

Danielle: Yes, as far as I know. The only thing that I did hear about was apparently there was some people under the age of 18 yrs were sent ballot papers in Dundee, but really it wasn't going to make any difference. It would be one of these things that you would assume they would have double checked first. There's always going to be wee glitches here and there.

Clare: Small pockets of...

Danielle: But yeah, it seemed good.

Hal: For me, every time I hear one of these stories that... It won't come up in the news, it will come up via some small ...it will come up on something like Facebook or it will come up by some...

Jeremy: Third hand source

Hal: Third hand source of apparently this happened... and I always have to take those things with a massive pinch of salt, just because I find... it can be a case of one example that's blown so far out of proportion, and I fully accept if you're counting, I don't know the exact number, let's say 40 million votes, there's going to be an administrative error along the way. That's... But I now think you have to give a lot of credit to the people who give up their time, like yourself, to go and count these votes, and I think overall... I mean, because if there's a case of...if we're saying there's something like fraud happening, and I haven't heard of it happening, then that's a criminal investigation, and we haven't had that come up, and that would make mainland press. You can't physically hide that from mainland press. So I think overall it has to be taken that it was a well run thing and, for the system we have, it works and actually it is a fair and democratic process.

Jeremy: We're a nation that does bureaucracy...



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I: The fact that you guys hand count those ballots...In our state we have a scanner, and to see how fast it gets done, actually for me it's quite impressive.

Danielle: I assume that they kept Ruth Davidson away from the postal votes this time?

Clare: Aye. There's still... she's still...The people who count the votes get paid for it.

Hal: Oh, okay.

Clare: Yes, they get paid.

Danielle: They open sometimes up to council workers, they ask if you want to come and do it.

Clare: The ones that are adjudicating, checking that you're getting everything right , don't get paid. They get a cup of tea and a biscuit. The one that counts the votes get paid. They're usually either teachers or professional.

Jeremy: Library staff

Clare: Yeah, library, or council workers...

I: But it's a long night.

Hal: The thing that I was saying is that you have to give credit to those people who give up their evening, especially to the people of, I'm just saying South 48:00 as an example, because God it took them forever. But to stay constantly counting for 12 hours solid...

TO WHICH POLICIES WILL YOU PAY ATTENTION?

I: The next thing we want to ask in terms of of each of you, are there policies or certain politics that you're going to be paying attention to in the weeks and months ahead? And I see a nodding head. (Danielle is nodding)



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Danielle: They keep on about the vote in Europe being a real kind of make or break thing, I think it could actually come before that about Human Rights rejection, because it is allegedly written into the Scottish constitution that it's set in stone for Scotland, it will not be changing. But then apparently it doesn't actually say that, but people thought it did. So, whereas the Scottish constitution has to use the Human Rights Act, if it's taken away by Westminster it could get very complicated, and also that's written into the assembly for Wales and Northern Ireland. That could get a bit tricky, that one, if one of these can decide en mass or what, because I am very against that been overturned.

Clare: That was actually on the cards before the vote.

Danielle: Yes.

Clare: So people knew that was going to happen, but not everybody, but that was known,

Danielle: And I find that really frustrating, because it's one.... your much beloved by the Daily Mail and Express of these ridiculous rights, yak, yak, yak, yak, whereas I have used them and I used it in a case where my son was been bullied, and they're incredibly useful for cases like that. But of course, we never actually hear about these in the press. So I think that could be pretty tricky.

Jeremy: I think the EU case, if it does come to a head, is going to be interesting, because it's a very polarising debate and it's one where... I consider myself relatively politically literate but I do not know the facts of this case. I can't argue one way or the other, apart from I feel that we should be part of a broader European grouping, community, but I couldn't tell you the numbers, I couldn't back up the hard bottom line paper facts; I don't think that many people could do. And there's going to be some very polarised opinion with this. There's a lot of people who have a healthy normal euro scepticism who are going to be drawn so far to the right by a very fringe anti foreigner, anti emigrant, anti European vote, but what's going to be interesting is, with the Conservative vote, the fact that you may have socially



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conservative people pushing one way but you're still going to have business that wants to be part of Europe. The CBI will still want to be part of Europe, the City of London still needs to be in Europe, as far as financial tax on transactions come into this, so that's going to be something that could be split between the party as well.

I: So you'll be keeping an eye on the EU referendum, discussion....

Jeremy: I think that's going to be the next big...

Danielle: I think this actually does feeds on from the referendum last year, because so many companies said "if Scotland goes independent we're all for this," but they're the first ones that say they're disappearing. In fact HSBC has already said it, "if Britain's out of Europe, we're out of Britain." And an awful lot of American companies have their headquarters in Britain because it's the English speaking park that lets them have access to the EU, not out of any good will or anything, and I know several of them have got preparations to bog off to Ireland. So ...I know one of my friends was really quite angry because she had been told by her son in law to vote no, because he works for the HSBC and they had said they were leaving, and now, as well as been found out about dodging tax, they're now saying "we might be leaving anyway," and I expect more and more of that to come out.

I: Hal?

Hal: For me, what I'm looking for is, I'll very much keeping an eye on this Europe thing. The free vote in Europe, it is right actually, currently our system, that the British public should be able to have a choice of do they want to be within the EU, like you said. If you drew up a list of 100 pro and 100 cons of both and you sent that round the British public, a minute amount of people would leave it, because all you get is people who are anti immigration, want out of Europe because they don't like the fact that people can come here and claim benefits but also they won't like the fact that... I'm not saying that I agree with this, I'm pro Europe, but they also don't like the fact that a lot of money is being spent on foreign aid. At the same time, I think it was put in there because it was a conceivable threat that actually that a large amount of



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the Tory vote was going to go to Europe so it was put in there as a scapegoat and I think that was the whole reason that it was put in as part of the Tory manifesto. But at the same time, I think there are so many people that did vote Conservative who actually, fundamentally, because the Conservative vote appeals to people, the business voters, because so much, I mean free trade between the EU, so much... I don't think...

Danielle: I think that David Cameron was forced into having the referendum because of UKip, but it was the farmers especially, voting Conservative, and they do not want to leave Europe.

Jeremy: The second highest common agricultural 54:22 in Europe

Hal: You would end up with about 60 farmers in the UK, which would just ?? because you can't be a small time farmer ?? EU subsidy. And also there's one other thing, is whether we're going to go below this 2% of GDP spending on armed forces, because it's written into NATO that if you're part of these things that 2% of your GDP should be spent on the armed forces, and I think currently there are 3 or 4 countries that actually do it, and we're one of them, and I don't think that we should spend any less, because I do, this might be a slightly bias view but I do think the armed forces are quite a vital part of our country.

I2: Thank you. Clare, what about you?

Clare: Before we even think about the EU we've got to think about the Scottish Parliament next year. The Scottish Parliament next year is the main focus. The SNP will be starting pretty soon and going forward. I think personally, my main issue is the Labour Party have went over... voted a lot for the SNP, but when the Scottish Parliament comes there will be a lot of ... radical movements will be setting up their own parties, like Common Weal and Radical Independents and even the Labour Party, so Scottish Nationalists will then have more progressive parties to join and fight for their seats. So it will be quite interesting to see how that goes. I think the only way that the Labour party will get their voters back will be to break away from the English based Labour party and start up a totally new Scottish,



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because there isn't such a thing as a Scottish Labour party, it's not actually registered as a Scottish Labour party. So I think if they got a proper leader, got rid of Murphy, though he's an asset, he's an asset! He's brilliant!

Danielle: He won't go. Have you signed the petition though, the SNP "keep Jim Murphy" petition?

Clare:Oh aye, we did as well because he did us a favour.

Clare: So the unions are up in arms, because the unions didn't want him in the first place, so the unions will probably get together and they'll pick, hopefully it will probably be Finley or something, and he'll lead the Labour party. I don't think they will lead them to victory but if they could just get part of the Labour party, because you really do need... you can't just have a whole SNP in the Scottish Parliament because that's not... you know

Danielle: That's the thing that the media aren't getting though, it's just "oh you've all turned into Borg!" One of the things that I was really glad, there was a good chunk of SNP at Westminster because it means that next year there can be a much wider scope, it can be back to all the wee parties, individuals and things.

Clare: The Common Weal is very active and I'd imagine they'll be setting up their own...

Danielle: They should lock Jim Murphy up somewhere; I think it would be best for everybody concerned.

TOO MANY REFERENDUMS?

I: I have a question that has come out of this discussion. which is the UK generally has not held referendums, it's not something historically that has been regular, and yet you've had the AV Referendum, the Independence Referendum and now you're looking down the barrel of an EU Referendum. what are your reactions to...do you feel empowered by making all these



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choices or do you feel that it has been very contentious and divisive, what do you...?

Jeremy: Both.

Danielle: If you look at which country has had the most "get out and vote,", because we obviously have the Scottish Parliament now, with the referendum, we've the general election, we've the council and we've the European. What's the turnout here? An average of 70 odd percent, and in England they were struggling to hit 60.

I: Yeah, about 65.

Danielle: No, I think it was 55 in some places, some places were really low. A lot of places here were between high 60s to low 80s, so you would think if being asked lots of times can put you off, it should be the other way round, so maybe it does work if you ask more often. People just get into the habit of it.

I: Jeremy, you said both?

Jeremy: I think the conversation can get a little hijacked by the press. A big point last year, I know we're talking about the referendum but it's part, it's still the same journey that a lot of people who haven't been in politics have started 59:30, that 99% of the conversation about the referendum, and a lot of what's led up to this, has not been informed by the debates, it's not particularly been informed by the newspapers, it has been informed by people talking who haven't talked ?? politics for the first time. In September last year could you not get away from people talking about that the whole time and I think Scotland is a healthier place for it, it's a more democratic place for it, it's more...I like to think that people can at least try to talk with different views, and certainly in my workplace we had yes voters and no voters who quite happily talked about their side to either. Both people get more informed and more engaged, and it was a discussion rather than how far we can get pulled aside with the hysteria of the press, either way. The Guardian have done their points as well about Labour and Cameron as a baby killers and all this, and if the population can continue to have conversations and discussions, it's a good thing, but if we continue to get polarised from



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above, which I think is losing its potency in Scotland, I don't think it makes any difference in Scotland, I think it's possibly more middle England that's informed by the Daily Mail, and the Scottish Daily Mail has any impact ... if this discussion can continue, well, carry on...

I: Hal, are you looking forward to an EU discussion? Is that the wrong word, "looking forward to."

Hal: Looking forward.... Historically, I think it's one of those things. I think Britain, there's no two ways about it, its whole political system is drastically changing. If you look at the last 10 years and compare that to the change in the political system over any 10 year period for over the last 200 years, the only other time being the right for women to vote, it has changed so drastically on how the country is run. Looking forward to the EU referendum, it's been promised and I think people should have their voice and be able to vote. In that way I'm looking forward to it because I always like to see promises fulfilled; in politics it's sometimes a rarity. But I'm looking forward to that. Am I looking forward to the inevitable TV debates about it? Probably not, but I think all these referendums, at some point there are going to be people who will go "okay, we want a whole new constitutional referendum." Well actually, I don't think that's the best idea, because at the moment we're showing that we don't have the greatest amount of trust within our politicians. That's the overall thing, everyone looks at politicians, they go "no, you can't trust them," but what I'd like to see is just a way for us to be able to get back so we can... you have faith within the people you elect. That's what I would rather see. If you go for a whole constitutional referendum it has to be written by the politicians, and I don't think anyone would want that at all. So, I think at some point there has got to be an end point to these referendums. After the EU referendum where does it end? There will inevitably be another one four years down the line, "Let's have another referendum about this."

Jeremy: I think it's healthy that any nation can react to things change, because we can't predict now...



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Hal: I completely agree, but I think at some point either we need to... I think the EU referendum one is important because people should be able to choose, because it has been promised, but I'll be interested to see what will be the next one after that, because I think it's used as a tool that anyone that puts forward...a referendum is now being used as more a voting bargaining chip and I would rather not see that.

Jeremy: But then does that mean the public is hungry for it?

Danielle: They might get put off after six months debate about the EU though.

Hal: What I want to get is just that thing of we elect politicians to have votes and discussions about these things, they're there to basically... they're your representatives within the House of Commons, within a voting constituency. By that decree they should be your voice within parliament. So I think yes in some cases. If it's a matter of something that will massively affect the country then I think there should be referendums. However, after that we have a system where a vote goes to the House of Parliament and you have 650 members there and they are your voice within that. That is the theory, how it should work. They won by a majority, they're your voice in there and there's nothing that says...yes, we have got chief whips and everything...but there's nothing that's saying that people, politicians have to follow the views of their party, they should follow the views of their constituency. And then after that obviously you've got the House of Lords, that's the ability to then go and double check. That's how I think. I believe in our political system and I think it should be allowed to run its course, and I think on certain issues there should be referendums and I don't think we need....

Danielle: The House of Lords, that could very well be the next one.

Hal: Yeah.

I: Clare, on the EU referendum?

Clare: On the EU referendum, I'm of an age where they had the EU referendum to tell you whether you're going in or not, now they're having one to come out, and as far as referendums go, and I've been through a lot of



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referendums, I was in a referendum in 1979, Scotland was geared up for it and then they changed the goal posts and then said that they had to have a percentage, and the percentage was that people didn't even bother going out and voting. The vote was that it was over the majority, it was 50 or whatever, but a week before the referendum the British government said it would have to be over 50% of the population of Scotland, even though people didn't go out and vote. So I have been through '79, I've also been through 1997, I've been through that, that's the second one, and then we got the parliament, which was great, and then I've been through three, so I've been through quite a few of them so I know how disappointments are. Every time we get closer and closer, because obviously in 1979 there was only a few SNPs and over the years, because of Alex Salmond, he's build up, he's passionate about doing what he does for his people and over the years that's why we built up. We've not just come from nothing. SNP isn't just from nothing, it's been built up over the years. Obviously in1979, we were robbed of that, people then had to wait another 20 years before... and now, it just keeps going on. It's getting closer.

I: You mentioned about the parliamentary elections coming up , you and Danielle started having a conversation about the diversity and needing diversity in the parliament rather than a one block party. I just wanted to ask if this election outcome in terms of the number of SNPs returned to Westminster is going to have an influence on how you're going to calculate your vote at the parliament. Can you say a bit about how that's going to impact it?

Danielle: Because we have a secure number of SNP MPs now, I'll probably have my first vote for SNP and second for Green. So yes, bring the smaller parties in.

I: Bring the smaller parties in.

Danielle: Yes, because I do think it's healthy to have a whole range. As you were saying, the only way for the other parties, I think Labour, Liberal and Conservative, is to break away from the Westminster coup and they have to have their own viewpoint. Even if you look at Ruth Davidson, even though



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she opens her mouth sometimes, she was seen as very popular and had some good policies but has to 68:41 out to what David Cameron is saying, and that just...and I think they're the worst at showing... even though they found quite a lot of her campaign was positive, the Conservatives did worse than before. So I mean, I think it just has to be individual parties and not be the British divisional...

Clare: I'll be voting SNP, definitely, but obviously I do know that other parties will be coming forward. The Green party, Patrick Harvey has a very strong following in Scotland so he'll be quite a good focus. I think the Greens will really do well, and Tommy Sheridan he's been brilliant in Scotland so I think he'll have quite a few followers. I'm not saying he'll get...I won't be surprised if Tom Sheridan got a seat in parliament.

Danielle: He can't stand, can he?

Jeremy: No.

Danielle: He's not allowed to stand.

Clare: His case will be coming up soon.

Jeremy: It has been done already.

Clare: It has been already, all right. I didn't realise that.

Jeremy: The people's perjurer will not stand again, unfortunately. I can see myself not voting SNP in the next election, not anything against the SNP but because of they haven't got the voices. I don't know who's going to be on the ballot next year so it would be hard to say at this time, but anything that's more progressive.... The trade Union parties have a glorious opportunity to see that their politics has come round again, and there's land reform issues coming up, there's the Green surge, which I think a lot of people, knowing that they will be voting Green, voted SNP this time because it's more of a tactical vote for SNP. So I think there will be a very different rainbow coloured parliament, unless the momentum keeps going and everyone



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decides they want a stronger SNP, which also could be possible, or it could just keep going...

Clare: I think they'll do well, I think the SNP will still do well, but I think there will be more choice of parties.

Jeremy: The benefit for the SNP is that with it being so soon, it's less than a calendar year till the elections, it's less time for the SNP to do anything wrong, it's less time for them to lose their momentum. Had it been two or three years down the line there could be a bit of malaise, there could be a bit of 71:14 to disappoint but they could quite easily ride the momentum for a year.

Clare: The reason they will do well if is the Labour don't pick themselves up. It's the Labour party that have let everything down. I mean, the Conservatives don't come into it in Scotland, but the Labour party, if they were to do something.... It will take them years to recover, because they were just....I mean, Scotland was always Labour, wasn't it?

Hal: They've lost their leader and they're...

Clare: Yeah, they've lost everything.

Danielle: They haven't managed to lose Jim Murphy yet, that's their main problem!

Clare: Well, I think it will be exciting.

Hal: I was having a conversation with my flat mate about this prior to the election, prior to the complete landslide, and he said that he reckons that the SNP will be the longest standing party in any parliament in the UK history, because they will stand for years to come and they will get the Scottish majority in the Scottish Parliament for the years to come. For me...

Clare: Sorry, I missed that last bit. What did you say?

Hal: Me and my flat mate were saying that we reckoned that within the Scottish Parliament they will be the largest majority holder for years to come.



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I think because having moved up to Dundee 3 years ago. Coming up here was an experience, learning about the whole Scottish Parliament system, and obviously I wasn't here to vote in it the last time, and it will be interesting for me to actually be able to get to grips with how it works and I want to be able to actual research it a lot more before I would be able to make any formed decision, because I think a lot of what happened, I'm using Edinburgh South as an example, is that went Labour because people who would have voted Conservative went tactical and voted Labour.

Jeremy: Labour held it, it was a Labour seat.

Hal: I know it was a Labour seat but I think because of the amount of... this was, just reading into it, because of the amount of popularity, and growing popularity, I think, like you said, tactical voting did definitely take place.

Danielle: There was a fantastic... there were various tactical voting wheels being sent all over the place. So several people on Twitter made their own and it ended up with one that flashed rainbow colours and played the magic roundabout music.

Clare: I think he got that seat because he wanted rid of Trident, and he's a good guy and that's why he kept his seat. He really works hard and he also wants rid of Trident. The Conservatives wanted to keep Trident so that's why they lost the vote

I: But there also might be tactical voting too that helps to boost that up.

Clare: Oh, there will be tactical, sure.

DO THE CONSERVATIVES HAVE A MANDATE?

I: We were wondering whether or not people felt that the Conservatives have a mandate to rule, but from your conversations it seem like, even if you're not happy with the result there's.... the democratic void has been put down, the policies will go forward and they'll be judged on that in five years time, that's kind of the impression. Can we just verify that that's sort of...



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Jeremy: What was interesting, I felt, about the whole question of legitimacy was I was listening to Radio Scotland on Friday morning and there was a lot of Scottish Lib Dem, Labour and Conservative voters who were calling in. There were more questioning the SNP's legitimacy and they were taking the position to say well, we have to remember that the SNP only got 52% of the vote in Scotland and many people in Scotland didn't vote for them so they should act to represent that way

Danielle: Yeah, but it's Nicola Sturgeon that's had to keep saying "we're going to represent everybody," but only 52% voted for them.

I: So maybe legitimacy depends on what part of the country you're in.

Hal: I think it just comes down to that fact that democracy has acted and democracy has spoken, and I think it is just one of those cases that if you want to... To take part in democratic process you have to be prepared to accept the outcomes of it, and I'm more than happy to accept the ... I'd have been happy to accept a Labour government, I'm happy to accept a Tory government and I'm happy to accept the fact that the SNP, they have won the 56 seats that they have got. That was elected by a democratic process and you take that and you look at that and over the five year period that democratic process and those parties will act, and they'll act and I think that is...

Clare: Yeah, but I think why are they making such a fuss about 56 SNPs going down to Westminster when they had 56 Labours down there, Scottish Labour? They make such a fuss.

Danielle: Because they don't seem to recognise that we're 76:45 beings. We didn't do what we were supposed to do.

Clare: They've had Labour/SNP people down there for all those years and as long as they fitted in with what they were doing, now that Labour is gone and SNP are going down they're making such a fuss, as if we're not entitled to send our representatives down to Westminster.

Hal: I completely agree with you.



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Clare: I think that's what's annoying people more.

Hal: I think what it comes down to, it's the same thing as the last time. When the Lib Dems won so many seats they were going "why have they got these amount of seats?" Because a third of the country voted for them. And I think the people who are making that argument are the people who voted UKip, and they got an extraordinary amount of votes, especially in the Northeast, they're the second highest vote.

I: After Labour.

Hal: People will always be bitter about an outcome, that's the way it works. No one likes to finish second best place, no one likes that to happen, but it comes down to this fact that actually if democracy has spoken then let it, let parliament work its course.

Jeremy: I think it's healthy to have a lot of people who are pissed off if something goes wrong because it shows that they care enough to be pissed off if something is not going the way they want it. To a point, to a point, but I think it's good if you can just go "oh, 78:18 decision for five years." That's one thing, but if you put yourself out there and you want to affect the changes that will happen, it's good to be radicalised [??]

Danielle: It's also not so much who's been voted in but the commentary that has gone along with it, and I find it quite funny that David Cameron and Boris Johnson will have to sit and look at these people that they have been describing in pretty vile terms sometimes, and very derogatory terms, and it has kind of come back to bite them.

I: Yeah, I think it sounds like whether you're Labour you've probably got some beef with the system because of how they performed, UKip people have some beef, so it sounds like, as you were saying Jeremy, people care enough to moan. We all know I always call moaning the favourite British pass time.

Clare: I think in Scotland we had a peaceful... getting where we got, I think there's going to be major, major trouble in England. I wouldn't be surprised if



DUNDEE POST 3

there's something like the French Revolution, because the North are up in arms and I think really there's going to be major...

I: I think we're going to wrap this up. We've gone through our questions, but one thing that we would say is that we're going to be applying for a grant to do something similar around the Scottish parliamentary elections, the Welsh elections as well. We would like to keep your names on file and have you back, maybe this time next year, and see how things have gone one year out and how you're thinking about the parliamentary elections that are going to be coming up.

Clare: I really enjoyed that, especially yourself, from your point of view.

I: Yeah, we haven't had a rural voter, Hal, so it's fantastic to hear your perspective of the farmers and the armed services.

Jeremy: What was your constituency?

Hal: South West Wiltshire. I think it's Conservative, then Lib Dem, and there's a bit of UKip. It's a farming constituency and there aren't that many major towns within ours, and it's the most used constituency ever and they're thinking of doing a reshuffle of constituency, which actually I think will make it a different vote; it will probably be a bit less.

I: One of the things that we found is that people who live in really, really safe seats are not as motivated to vote as people in marginal seats, and I think here in Scotland there's a lot of people, basically every seat became a marginal seat.

Danielle: That was amazing, watching that.

I: They almost broke the swingometer.

Danielle: I was so disappointed that they didn't have the old fashioned mechanical swingometer.



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Hal: What was very interesting was actually the amount of people who I met who said that they would vote UKip if they thought that it was going to make a difference.

Jeremy: What the difference is, that's the question.

Clare: I'll tell you what was the most amazing thing in Dundee. Stewart Hosie is already the MP, right, for Chris Law to go from nothing, no politics, just a business man, to go from nothing, not even been into politics to get 27,800 votes, to me, that was, he was only 900 behind Stewart Hosie, and Stewart Hosie has already been in the seat. Do you not think that they work?

Hal: What I am so, so happy about is the amount of SNP people who aren't career politicians yet.

Danielle: Yes.

Hal: It's so refreshing. I have a slight feeling that to become a politician you should have had an actual outside job beforehand where you...

Danielle: Yes, and not just hang about on the coat tails ....

Hale: Haven't gone first to university and then gone and worked for a parliamentary candidate.

I: For a think tank

Jeremy: Michael O'Mara was like that. He was a special advisor 82:35 [over talking]

Danielle: The first thing on his campaign, he was going to keep Menziehill High School open. It wasn't his remit. You kind of lost faith right there.

I: In Cardiff people were saying, "well, you're sending stuff through saying what you're going to do about education in Westminster. That's devolved. If you don't know what the devolved powers are you shouldn't be running for office."

Hal: Labour ?? more nurses.



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Clare: You do know that Dundee is now completely SNP, completely SNP.

I: Well, most of Scotland is completely SNP so...

Clare: No, Dundee is the only city in Scotland who have MSPs, MPs and council.

I: It's a one party state.

Clare: And now we're fully SNP once we've got Chris Law. It's absolutely brilliant!



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