Creation versus Evolution

vs.

Jason Donev

Disclaimer:

This talk will show Scientific Creationism is incompatible with observed facts, but does not address mainstream Christianity.

Definitions of Creationism

• Creationism is the belief that God created the universe (a question science doesn’t address).

• “Scientific Creationism” is a subset of creationism where the Bible is taken to be literally true. This talk will refer to scientific creationism by simply the word creationism.

Public Opinion

• 83% of Americans polled want Evolution taught in public schools.

• 70% believe that evolution is compatible with a belief in God

From: People for the American Way poll (2000)

BUT:~1/3 of the surveyed people believe that scientific creationism

should be taught

• 16% believe that schools should teach scientific creationism only

• 13% believe both should be taught as “scientific theories”

• 4% believe both should be taught, but aren’t sure how.

The poll also asked about the definition of evolution

• Correct definition of evolution chosen by 48% of the population:– Humans and apes have a common ancestor

• Incorrect definition chosen by 32% of the population:– Humans evolved from apes

Americans with an incorrect definition of

Evolution (32% of public)

Eliminate evolution from textbooks 33%

Keep evolution in textbooks 55%

Not sure 12%

Americans who chose the correct definition of Evolution (48% of public)

Eliminate evolution from textbooks 21%

Keep evolution in textbooks 70%

Not sure 9%

A less complete understanding of Evolution leads to supporting its elimination from science classes.

History

• Most of medieval Christian church probably didn’t believe the Bible was literally true, and age of Earth was unknown.

• Bishop Ussher in 1650 calculated 4004BC• Hutton / Lyell Uniformitarianism (early 1800’s):

– “The present is the key to the past.” – Probably makes for a very old Earth

• Darwin wrote “Origin of the Species” (1859)• 20th century Earth was determined to be 4.6

billion years old

Creationist history

• Modern Creation Science started with 7th day Adventists, Ellen G. White claims to have seen– The creation of the Earth in a week– Noah’s flood shaped the surface of Earth

• George McCready Price (1870-1963) started to get some following even in the 1910s, but not popular until 1970s.

• 1963 Morris and Whitcomb started the Creation Research Society (CRS) which required an advanced degree in science to join.

Intelligent Design

• Started by Phillip E. Johnson a law professor put out book Darwin on Trial.

• This movement is slightly different from creationism, but is still attacks evolution.

• The Discovery Institute in Seattle “supports research by scientists and other scholars challenging various aspects of neo-Darwinian theory”

Some creationist beliefs• Science is only true if it agrees with the Bible.• The Earth is between 6,000-10,000 years old• C-14 dating is invalid; all radioisotope dating is

wrong• Kinds are invariant (don’t evolve into other kinds)• There was literally a flood that covered the planet• Sedimentary rocks were all made during the flood• 2nd law of thermodynamics prevents evolution• Humans aren’t biologically animals• Evolution leads to an immoral worldview

Looking into the past

• When we look at distant stars, we look into the past. The further away the star, the further in the past we look.

• If it takes more than 10,000 years for the light to get here, the universe obviously appears more than 10,000 years old.

• Light coming from stars millions of light years away takes millions of years to get here.

• In order to explain this creationists have two theories:– The speed of light changed – Light was created on its way here

The speed of light is 300,000,000m/s

• The speed of light in a vacuum has been shown to tremendous precision to be invariant locally.

• If it is different someplace else, there would be total internal reflection

• If it varies with time, there would be a change in and , this would change spectra of stars; no such change is observed.

Far away

• If God created the light on its way here, he created a history for us to look at as well. If God created an apparent age, why not just call it age?

Radioactive isotopes

• they decay into other isotopes • Half lives give how much time it takes for half of

a given sample to decay, or the time it takes for 1 atom to have a 50% chance of decaying.

• Isotopes have half lives range from nanosec - billions of years.

• Age of a sample can be determined if:– the amounts of isotopes are known– no atoms enter or leave the system – the rate of change is known.

Nuclide Half-Life50V 6.0 x 1015

144Nd 2.4 x 1015

192Pt 1.0 x 1015

115In 6.0 x 1014

152Gd 1.1 x 1014

123Te 1.2 x 1013

190Pt 6.9 x 1011

138La 1.12 x 1011

147Sm 1.06 x 1011

87Rb 4.88 x 1010

187Re 4.3 x 1010

176Lu 3.5 x 1010

232Th 1.40 x 1010

238U 4.47 x 109

40K 1.25 x 109

235U 7.04 x 108

Nuclide Half-Life146Sm 7.0 x 107

205Pb 3.0 x 107

247Cm 1.6 x 107

182Hf 9 x 106

107Pd 7 x 106

135Cs 3.0 x 106

97Tc 2.6 x 106

150Gd 2.1 x 106

93Zr 1.5 x 106

98Tc 1.5 x 106

154Dy 1.0 x 106

If the half life is greater than ~108 years then it is found in nature, less than 107 years it isn’t.

Missing from nature

Creationists claim:

• Creationists claim that the radioactive decay rate can’t be known. – Candle analogy

• Creationists claim that the initial amount can’t be known, and it can’t be proven if additional elements came into a sample.

• They point to C14 dating as being fallible therefore all radiometric dating must be wrong.

Mainstream science claims:

• Radioactive decay rates can be calculated from nuclear physics using fundamental physical constants. – They’ve been the same for millions of years.

• Looking at the decay of uranium into lead, we know that rocks are at least 3.9 billion years old.

• Over 200 different radioisotopes agree that the Earth is more than 6000 years old.

Carbon 14 dating

• Useful for dating formerly living things.

• C14 is one of the few radioactive isotopes that appears in living things with enough abundance to measure the decay rate.

• There are some difficulties with C14 that don’t happen with other radioisotopes, but these difficulties are well understood.

How C14 dating works

• There is a ratio of C12 to C14 in the atmosphere

• Plant take in CO2, and gets C12 and C14

• Animal eats plant and gets C12 and C14

• Animal dies, and stops getting more C14

• After 5730 yr ½ the C14 will decay but C12 won’t.• The ratio of C12 to remaining C14 shows how long

ago the animal stopped taking in C

Assumptions with C14 dating

• We must assume that we know the initial ratio of C12 to C14. If that’s off, then the measurement is off.

Scientists use their intelligence guided by their experience to tell if data is good or not. This isn’t scientific dishonesty. When the equipment doesn’t work right, it’s recorded. This is different from getting conflicting results!

Creationists ignore this

• Creationists often cite cases with incorrect C14 results.• For example:

– A freshly killed seal dated by C14 showed it had died 1300 years ago. (Antarctic Journal, vol. 6, [September-October 1971])

• Which demonstrates a legitimate problem for C14 dating called the reservoir effect: – The seal’s C14 came from the Antarctic ocean which has a

different C12 to C14 ratio– Much of the C14 decayed before it was eaten

• When reading the actual journal article, this is exactly what the article is talking about.

C14 dating of dinosaur bones

• After 6-8 half lives a radiometric dating technique becomes inaccurate because there’s an insufficient amount of radioactive material left. This puts an upper limit on C14 dating of 50,000 years.

• Dinosaurs are >65 million years old, therefore, C14 dating results are meaningless.

• Some creationists actually complain that C14 hasn’t been used on dinosaur bones, or when it is, it shows that the dinosaur bones are only a few thousand years old.

Side note: King Clone creosote bush

A creosote shoot can live ~100yrs, but it produces "clones" of itself through a system whereby the inner stems die and new stems appear on the periphery. This produces a circular pattern of genetically-identical plants, with the rings expanding outward about a meter every 500 years. This "clone-family" can live a remarkably long time: the "King Clone“ is estimated at 11,700 years old. If you consider the cloned shoots as part of the original plant, that makes it the oldest living thing on earth.

Geologic column

• Sedimentation– The process of suspended solid particles

settling out in water.– Yields different strata (the layers or beds

found in sedimentary rock.)

• Get correlating strata all over the world

• Fossils can be found that correspond to specific strata

Creationists claim

• The entire geologic column was deposited in 1 year by the flood.

• Species were sorted by where they lived, less complex species lived at lower elevations

• “Kinds” are invariant, and can not change.

Mainstream science claims:

• Sedimentation– Old stuff is on the bottom, new on top– Yields geologic column with an age associated with it.

• No evidence for a worldwide flood• Different strata are deposited throughout time.• Radioisotope dating date different strata.

– Can then date fossils by looking at the different strata.– Age of strata from radioisotope data agree throughout

the world.

Faunal succession is a Fact

• Fossils found in age-equivalent geologic strata look like each other, but commonly differ from modern animals.

• Faunal succession: observation that over time species change

• Evolution: a theory of what causes Faunal succession

Horses through the ages

Creationists claim

• They don’t believe the bones can be dated

• Modern horses vary, the variation seen in the fossil record is just that variation.

Mainstream science claims

• Horse fossils are found in different layers.– These horse skeletons are different with depth– But the same within age-equivalent geologic strata.

• Skeletons of horses as they exist today haven’t been found from rocks that existed 35 million years ago, and horses which have been found from 35 million years ago don’t exist today, therefore evolution must have occurred.

• This has been observed for other species as well, but horses have shown dozens of distinct species with remarkably well documented transitional forms between them.

2nd law of thermodynamics

• Without adding energy systems tend to become disordered.

• The total disorder of the universe must increase with time, although the disorder in a given system may decrease.

Creationists claim

• Evolution can’t happen because it violates the second law of thermodynamics.

• Even if the Earth is a closed system some sort of ‘intelligent design’ is needed to make the energy useful

2nd law of thermo

• We are not a closed system– Sunlight shines allowing work to be done with its

energy– So there can be a net increase in useful energy on

the Earth while still having a net increase in disorder in the universe

• The work that sunlight does can be useful to organisms, they can grow and change, and evolve!

• Crystals can form with no more ‘intelligence’ than their atomic structure.

Creationists claim that science is a religion

Science is a set of beliefs, however:

• Science is based on observation

• Science is falsifiable and predictive. – A theory is proven wrong if it is not supported

by the evidence.– When theories are proven incorrect, they can

be modified or new theories can come forward.

Creation Science is not Science

• They begin by assuming that material in Genesis is factual, and develop their theories based on this assumption.

• They do not investigate their theories in light of evidence, they construct the evidence to fit their assumptions.

• Even when these theories have been proven wrong they continue to believe them.

Many religions claim

• God created the Earth, the universe, and everything in it, including humans.

Mainstream science claims

• The Earth, the universe, and everything in it, including humans exist and change over time in an observable way.

Religions claim

• We should all try to be good people living a moral life.

Mainstream science claims

Absolutely nothing.

Although many scientists agree we should live a moral life, it’s not a scientific statement.

Creationists Claim

• Teaching that humans are biological animals leads to an immoral worldview.

• Crime rates have gone up since the teaching of evolution started in schools because people believe that they are animals.

Mainstream Science claims:

• Humans are biologically animals– Same chemical and physical structure as

other animals.

• Crime rates go up and down, causal relationships are difficult to determine.

Incidence of Violent crimes per/1000

0

100

200

300

400

500

600

700

800

1960 1965 1970 1975 1980 1985 1990 1995 2000

http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htmThe stock market has gone up since the 1950s as well!Correlation does not imply a causal relationship!

The Scientific Creationist movement is damaging

• The make specious and outlandish religious claims that damage Christianity.

• They add fuel to the fire of disagreement between the religious and scientific community, adding to a conflict that should be dying and discrediting both institutions.

Claims I addressed

• The speed of light is constant• Radioactive dating, including C14, is a valid and accurate

way to date samples• Faunal succession, species do change over time,

evolution is a viable “theory”• Geologic column really does show that the older stuff is

on the bottom, and can be used to date fossils• 2nd law of thermodynamics doesn’t contradict evolution• The “Creationist Science” movement is hazardous to

both religion and science and should be combatted by open and honest discussion and education.

In conclusion

• Creationist arguments and theories don’t fit the facts

• Science answers questions within its purview quite successfully.

• Scientific creationism should not be taught

Thanks and citations•National Center for Science Education, specifically Glenn Branch and Nick Matze

•The Talk Origins archive, if they don’t address it, creationists probably haven’t claimed it: http://www.talkorigins.org/

•The Age of the Earth, Dalrymple

•Paleontological Society Papers October 1999 V 5

•Crime statistics:http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm