chip boyd - nibmimages.com boyd jan-4 8:01 pm ... but i also buffer outwards to push the pods back...

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Chip Boyd Jan-4 8:01 PM First question - how do you play Tyranids against Tau without losing 80 gaunts on Turn 1 ToF Hero Jan-4 8:01 PM Reserver them all Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:02 PM Correct Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:02 PM both ToF Hero Jan-4 8:02 PM turn two you can just surrender? Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:02 PM nah Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:02 PM accidently forget about them until turn 5 Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:02 PM I think the key nowadays is that tyranid lists are going to be composed of things other than gaunts, like flyrants and such Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:02 PM then cover the objectives and hope the game ends Chip Boyd Jan-4 8:03 PM How many Flyrants is too many flyrants? Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:03 PM 5 = too many Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:03 PM i think more than 3 is bad Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:03 PM 2-3 = right ToF Hero Jan-4 8:03 PM i think 3 is all you ever need Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:03 PM Anytime you spam that much of one thing you run into making your list amazing in certain matches, and pretty awful in others Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:03 PM 2 is the get by amount ToF Hero Jan-4 8:03 PM also gonyo how do i play devilfish

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Chip Boyd Jan-4 8:01 PM

First question - how do you play Tyranids against Tau without losing 80 gaunts on Turn 1

ToF Hero Jan-4 8:01 PM

Reserver them all

Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:02 PM

Correct

Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:02 PM

both

ToF Hero Jan-4 8:02 PM

turn two you can just surrender?

Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:02 PM

nah

Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:02 PM

accidently forget about them until turn 5

Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:02 PM

I think the key nowadays is that tyranid lists are going to be composed of things other than

gaunts, like flyrants and such

Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:02 PM

then cover the objectives and hope the game ends

Chip Boyd Jan-4 8:03 PM

How many Flyrants is too many flyrants?

Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:03 PM

5 = too many

Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:03 PM

i think more than 3 is bad

Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:03 PM

2-3 = right

ToF Hero Jan-4 8:03 PM

i think 3 is all you ever need

Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:03 PM

Anytime you spam that much of one thing you run into making your list amazing in certain

matches, and pretty awful in others

Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:03 PM

2 is the get by amount

ToF Hero Jan-4 8:03 PM

also gonyo how do i play devilfish

Chip Boyd Jan-4 8:03 PM

What armies do you play?

Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:03 PM

Trick question, you dont

ToF Hero Jan-4 8:04 PM

Marines most Drop Pod ultramarines is my main addiction

ToF Hero Jan-4 8:04 PM

i mean army*

Chip Boyd Jan-4 8:04 PM

With or without Calgar?

ToF Hero Jan-4 8:04 PM

with

ToF Hero Jan-4 8:04 PM

love me some calgar

Chip Boyd Jan-4 8:04 PM

My man!

ToF Hero Jan-4 8:04 PM

Allways with! I actually collect Calgars...

Chip Boyd Jan-4 8:05 PM

My biggest fear with pods is that they'll reserve as much as they can and then alpha me right

back.

Chip Boyd Jan-4 8:05 PM

Nick/Andrew, what would you do vs an all pod list, and what would scare you?

Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:05 PM

Nick first since his answer is easier

Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:05 PM

i think a bigger issue is not having any ignores cover

Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:06 PM

well with my daemons i reserve everything but the plague drones

Chip Boyd Jan-4 8:06 PM

Which will have a 2+ in cover, I assume

Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:06 PM

plague drones in cover have a 2+ cover

Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:06 PM

yeah

ToF Hero Jan-4 8:07 PM

huh what is the toughness?

Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:07 PM

then just try to kill what i can, get my reserves in, buff up, and commence the marine killing

Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:07 PM

toughness 5 3 wounds fnp

Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:07 PM

I think Nick's pointed out the general way you counter a pod army, which is to hunker

down, reserve what you can, eat the alpha, then punish their lack of mobility

Chip Boyd Jan-4 8:07 PM

We're talking about Drop Pod marines currently

ToF Hero Jan-4 8:07 PM

ouch.. yup that will soak some damage

Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:07 PM

For myself, usually playing tau

Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:08 PM

I do similar, but i also buffer outwards to push the pods back using kroot (infiltrators), and

other large footprint units

ToF Hero Jan-4 8:08 PM

do you run a lot of intercepter?

Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:08 PM

you don't need a lot to buffer since if they're seperate units, you can space them as wide

apart as a pod to block pods from coming down (needing the 1 inch)

Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:08 PM

I typically don't run any interceptor actually

Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:09 PM

What pods can do well that I see missed a lot, is using key drops on initial pods to guide later

deepstrikes by blocking their backward scatters

Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:09 PM

i think interceptor on one unit if broadsides is really important

ToF Hero Jan-4 8:09 PM

wow I always figured that cheep intercepter was a main advantage of tau

Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:09 PM

since it keeps psychic death stars that choose to reserve from coming in next to you ad

buffing up

Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:09 PM

Typically not because it competes with other systems, and generally by using interceptor

you're forgoing your own shooting phase (one that has markerlights and tau chips) for a bad

one thats unbuffed

Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:10 PM

if they come in next to you when you have intercept you can shoot them before they go crazy

Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:10 PM

In general nick, there aren't any drop-in deathstars in general play

Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:10 PM

interceptor is more of a deterrent i feel

Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:10 PM

interceptor is nice for armies that just utilize things like legion of the damned, because its a

lower body count to deal with

Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:10 PM

but pod marines put out so many dudes

Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:10 PM

its also useful for stealing first blood from a pod army

Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:10 PM

if i kill a couple five mans its not that relevant

Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:11 PM

true nick, first blood is a nice bonus to have a pod unit

Chip Boyd Jan-4 8:11 PM

Andrew, other than bouncing backline pods, what else can a pod player do to play more

effectively?

Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:11 PM

Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:12 PM

In general for pod players to be more effective I think you really need to think about what

you're bringing

Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:12 PM

The correct pod count so you're getting in what you want, for instance, and having enough

different types of pod units so that you can have an initial drop that hits horde, or hits

armor, etc

Chip Boyd Jan-4 8:12 PM

As for format -- I'm going to play gentle moderator, and rotate questions/keep things moving.

I don't have strict guidelines, more like a friendly fireside chat.

Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:12 PM

Yeah we can move along with q's, ill let chip orchestrate

Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:12 PM

ask away!

Chip Boyd Jan-4 8:13 PM

So you're saying 100% melta in pods is not the correct build? Good to know

Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:13 PM

right now andrew was going through pods/how to play with and against them

ToF Hero Jan-4 8:13 PM

huh you joke Chip but I do run almost all melta in pods!

ToF Hero Jan-4 8:14 PM

I also love Cent-devis in wolf pods

ToF Hero Jan-4 8:14 PM

I'm thinking about running a macro cannon with dark strider on it and a buff commander to

deal with blob armies and knights, but I'm concerned about the terrain posture of Adepticon

and maelstrom missions.

Chip Boyd Jan-4 8:14 PM

My list was 100% melta also, but it was originally designed for an ETC/ATC style team

event.

Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:14 PM

you had asked me that a while back and i thought about it more, and have one key reason

its a bad idea

Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:14 PM

macro cannons are still emplaced weapons like any other

Chip Boyd Jan-4 8:14 PM

For folks not in the know, what's a Macro Cannon?

Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:14 PM

they're T7, 2 wounds, 3+ armor

Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:15 PM

so you paid for a gigantic 500-600 point fortification with a gun that fires like, a giant strength

D shot

Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:15 PM

(or 10?)

ToF Hero Jan-4 8:15 PM

Like. What is Gonyo's favorite color? And Nick's favorite kind of animal. But seriously, if

you've read any of my posts you may have noticed that I like to play Farsight. I'll sometimes

ally in Tau. But I enjoy building fairly TAC lists and using them to take on the nasty business.

I'm playing in the FTN in a couple months and I know I'll be seeing lots of AdLance which I'm

comfortable handling at 1850 but if I want to be successful do I need to build a dedicated anti

SuperHeavy list?

ToF Hero Jan-4 8:15 PM

I can paste a list if anyone is curious.

Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:15 PM

im very partial to bunnys

Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:15 PM

but if someone can neuter it by just killing your emplaced weapon, its going to have a bad

time unfortunately, its a super neat idea putting darkstrider on it

Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:15 PM

Definitely blue, least favorite is brown

ToF Hero Jan-4 8:16 PM

You told me it was red ! Liar!

Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:16 PM

brown=win

ToF Hero Jan-4 8:16 PM

I am experimenting with a full LotD list (similar to pods) using a minimal bunker + Sicarius +

2 scout squads (2+ re-rollable reserve)...but hunkering down for possibly 2 turns is scary vs

Drop Pods

Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:16 PM

so, about farsight bomb vs i knights…

ToF Hero Jan-4 8:16 PM

Baha @NickNanavati

ToF Hero Jan-4 8:17 PM

Yes, Nick. Technically it's not a bomb but I'm considering it.

Chip Boyd Jan-4 8:17 PM

Where do you get the reserve manipulation?

Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:17 PM

I don't think you need dedicated anti-super heavy abilities to compete nowadays, but you do

need answers to be able to movement block at least. Farsight bomb has some neat options

in that you have a huge unit, can split what facing each model is in, let them declare their

shield positions (before shooting phase), and then fire into a different knight that doesn't

have the shield correctly positioned

Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:17 PM

you can deep strike the bomb within melta range of an i knight

Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:17 PM

and then split your melta guys between sides to bypass shields

ToF Hero Jan-4 8:17 PM

Comms Relay and Captain Sicarius's +1 to Reserve Rolls

ToF Hero Jan-4 8:18 PM

(Ultramarine Captain from SM Codex)

Chip Boyd Jan-4 8:18 PM

Ah sorry, I was thinking that was the SM FW Tank! Too many units these days

Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:18 PM

With tau currently I play against knights almost entirely using movement blocking and not

actually killing them

ToF Hero Jan-4 8:18 PM

That's what I'm considering. It's a lot to count on at 1850 with a large portion of that in

reserves.

Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:18 PM

But thats a very different tau list

ToF Hero Jan-4 8:18 PM

Tau Buff'mander (Commander): target lock; drone controller; Command and Control Node;

Puretide Engram Neurochip; Multi-spectrum Sensor Suite; Neuroweb System Jammer; marker

drone; marker drone 174

Farsight Mark'O'mander (Commander): target lock; drone controller; velocity tracker; Fusion

Blades; marker drone; marker drone 172

Firebase Riptide (XV104 Riptide): ion accelerator; twin-linked fusion blaster 185

Farsight Riptide (XV104 Riptide): ion accelerator; twin-linked fusion blaster 185

3 Farsight Enclaves XV8 Crisis Team: Bonding Knife Ritual; Crisis Shas'ui (missile pod; missile

pod); Crisis Shas'ui (missile pod) 144

1 Farsight Enclaves XV8 Crisis Team: Bonding Knife Ritual 53

1 Farsight Enclaves XV8 Crisis Team: Bonding Knife Ritual 53

6 Fire Warriors 54

• Devilfish: twin-linked smart missile system 90

6 Fire Warriors 54

• Devilfish: twin-linked smart missile system 90

Hammerhead Gunship: railgun (submunition rounds); twin-linked smart missile system;

Longstrike 175

Firebase Broadsides (3 XV88 Broadside Team): Broadside Shas'ui (twin-linked high-yield

missile pod); Broadside Shas'ui (twin-linked high-yield missile pod); Broadside Shas'ui (twin-

linked high-yield missile pod) 195

Firebase Broadsides (3 XV88 Broadside Team): Broadside Shas'ui (twin-linked high-yield

missile pod); Broadside Shas'ui (twin-linked high-yield missile pod); Broadside Shas'ui (twin-

linked high-yield missile pod) 195

1,819 points

Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:19 PM

using things such as rip tides and sky rays in front, and deep striking melta suits behind an i

knight can really over stress their shield

ToF Hero Jan-4 8:19 PM

That's the list with some points to spare... I hadled AdLance no problem but only managed to

put 8hp on a brass scorpion/summoning army

ToF Hero Jan-4 8:19 PM

Good point.

Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:19 PM

Yeah, unfortunately demons can be a rough match no matter how you cut it for tau, because

as nick always reminds me

Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:20 PM

more guns don't solve unkillable 2+ reroll units

Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:20 PM

was the scorprion invisible or grimoired?

ToF Hero Jan-4 8:20 PM

To clarify Farsight primary : Tau secondary : Firebase Support Cadre

Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:20 PM

its only armor 13 with at best a 4++ otherwise, so no harder than a knight

Chip Boyd Jan-4 8:20 PM

How many HP?

Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:20 PM

6

ToF Hero Jan-4 8:21 PM

No, it wasn't. But it was D slapping my backfield.

Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:21 PM

hmm, without other buffs you should be able to power through it with just weight of fire

Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:21 PM

make sure you spread out so whatever shooting it has cant kill multipe units at once

ToF Hero Jan-4 8:21 PM

Based on what I understand, those knuckleheads at FTN like to bring BIG toys.

Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:22 PM

In general big toys that don't skim or jump are best combatted with movement blocking using

chump units

Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:22 PM

im not overly familiar with the brass scorpion im afraid, but if you run me through the

weapons i can try to suggest counters

Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:22 PM

i like to surround things with piranhas and then piranha disembarked drones

ToF Hero Jan-4 8:22 PM

Right. Think the FireWarriors in Fish are worth it? Firebase Cadre worth it? More Crisis? I'm

all ears.

Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:22 PM

stand there

Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:22 PM

let them waste turns

ToF Hero Jan-4 8:23 PM

I was mostly just wondering if anyone thought a primarily Legion of the Damned list

(hunkering down for 1-2 turns) with 2+ rerollable reserve rolls.....would be considered viable?

competitively? I have already used it in a tourney and did ok,felt strong, but I was just

wondering if anyone thinks it has any merit?

Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:23 PM

however, daemons match up very very well to tau so this may be only soo useful advice

Chip Boyd Jan-4 8:23 PM

I love everything about LoTD except for their inability to come in on turn 1

Chip Boyd Jan-4 8:23 PM

Melta, MM, combi-grav

ToF Hero Jan-4 8:23 PM

The brass scorpion has 9hp, a 20 shot something or other, a S10 or D blast AP2 and moves

18" with fleet.

Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:23 PM

i think devilfish are not worth it personally

Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:23 PM

I think your main issue is going to be that in general, you'll still have only 4 units, even if you

go with 4x10 mans

ToF Hero Jan-4 8:23 PM

Have you ever thought about Tiggy instead of Scicarius?

Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:24 PM

So it'll do alright, but if you play an msu army or someone with an ability to tie you up

Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:24 PM

i like your list with a couple exceptions

Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:24 PM

you may just not be able to hit enough things

ToF Hero Jan-4 8:24 PM

Well I am hoping its ok to have 7 units of them (3 Normal Elite choices + their own Codex

Detachment?)

ToF Hero Jan-4 8:24 PM

You think?

Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:24 PM

the hammerhead is too many points invested for a single shot which can be stopped easily

by an invul or bad damage roll

Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:24 PM

oh okay i forgot about the SM CAD

Chip Boyd Jan-4 8:24 PM

Wow, that is a lot of LoTD

Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:24 PM

and the devilfish ive found are wasted points

Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:24 PM

Firewarriors in fish...Justin hates them, and for reasons They generally dont shine,

they're interesting knight deterrents with EMP though, and good mobile scoring, but they're

just expensive unfortunately

Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:25 PM

i think tau benefit mroe from taking close to minimum troops and maximizing their speed/fire

power

Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:25 PM

I like fireblade cadre in general but you have to be careful not to let it make your army too

stationary, so the rest of the list needs mobility

ToF Hero Jan-4 8:25 PM

How do you deal with the knights with the Fire Wariors... don't they just get obliterated all the

time

ToF Hero Jan-4 8:25 PM

Right.

ToF Hero Jan-4 8:25 PM

Hey wait if you take Blood angles or wolves instead of vanilla marines couldn't he load LoD

in pods and get them in early

ToF Hero Jan-4 8:25 PM

They have to be on the board for at least a turn

Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:25 PM

Buffy + Crisis unit is my favorite thing since sliced bread (3x crisis suits, 6 marker

drones, target lock/double missile all around), but is different from your farsight bomb list

Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:25 PM

max stand in cover with emp grenades and act as a meat shield

Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:25 PM

Max - yeah thats their issue, they can hop out like nick said

Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:25 PM

stand

Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:25 PM

if they get too close charge them

ToF Hero Jan-4 8:25 PM

I guess strategically I am wondering if that type of a LotD army (possibly 7 units of them)

1850 points all meltas....could handle another army that had Flyers....or is Anti-Air (or your

own flyer) pretty much needed these days?

Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:26 PM

movement block

ToF Hero Jan-4 8:26 PM

I hide them and score later. I try to do as much damage with crisis, commanders an tides

while my fish can sneak around the board.

Chip Boyd Jan-4 8:26 PM

LoTD in pods is kind of gray, but I think most tournaments would rule it illegal. Deployment

vs Disembark vs Deep Strike, etc...

Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:26 PM

and then the kngiht player cant charge (no grenades) and doesn't want to be near you

Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:26 PM

it just makes it awkward for them which half the time is enough

ToF Hero Jan-4 8:26 PM

I get it. Thanks.

Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:26 PM

but you're right, without a bunch of cover

Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:26 PM

knight swings first and the units just arent big enough

ToF Hero Jan-4 8:26 PM

Buffy with missile crisis just wrecks eldar

Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:26 PM

Yep - its kind of amazing punishing wave serpents

Chip Boyd Jan-4 8:27 PM

I think a lot of flyer-heavy lists can be ignored, but there are a few I would be concerned

about.

ToF Hero Jan-4 8:27 PM

Maybe max out on crisis and order some more for a full Farsight fusion Bomb?

Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:27 PM

hiding them and using them to move around the board is a fairly efficient way to use them

Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:27 PM

but you could also take mobile fire power units like piranhas

Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:27 PM

or riptides

Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:27 PM

Could, but ive found non-buffied (or haevily markerlight supported) crisis to be sad

ToF Hero Jan-4 8:27 PM

Sad?

Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:27 PM

no need to hide and reserve around the table when the enemy is dead

ToF Hero Jan-4 8:28 PM

Right! Haha

Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:28 PM

as in they fire missiles to not much effect

Chip Boyd Jan-4 8:28 PM

Triple Flyrant, Helldrakes in general would be scary, I think. I wouldnt worry too much about

Night Scythes though.

Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:28 PM

It definitely could and you dont absolutely need anti-flier, but if you're doing an army like that

you need to be careful what the missions are

ToF Hero Jan-4 8:28 PM

Ah. Well, I playe a five serpent list and easily killed four serpents in one turn.

Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:28 PM

because sometimes not being able to interact with fliers is okay, sometimes its not

Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:29 PM

i did that to two people at Da Boyz GT recently..neither was super happy

Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:29 PM

+sniper drones

Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:29 PM

All the waveserpents and wraithknights had a bad time

Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:29 PM

tau match up very well to serpents if built properly

ToF Hero Jan-4 8:29 PM

I've never used sniper drones and only recently started experimenting with kroot. I hate

Kroot.

Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:29 PM

wheres all my daemon questions!

ToF Hero Jan-4 8:30 PM

Yes I was definitely concerned with Flyrants, and a large Pod-List who could possibly table

me by Turn 2 (with only a bunker, 2 scout squads and HQ inside) I have thought about using

the scout Land Speeder that forces Deep Strikers to scatter double D6 if they drop within 12"

ToF Hero Jan-4 8:30 PM

At te borderlands event, I finished third overall with a similar list plus two Razorsharks.

Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:30 PM

kroot are there just because they're mandatory, they infiltrate and push back opposing rush

armies, or they outflank and grab things in your opponents backfield you dont easily access

ToF Hero Jan-4 8:30 PM

where did you love obsession start with deamons start?

ToF Hero Jan-4 8:30 PM

Had I not played 300 Orks on turn two that I couldn't kill all of I may have won the damn thing

Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:30 PM

sniper drones with an eterheral for shot bubble is real deal

Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:30 PM

27 shots from 9 of them at 24 inches or less

Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:31 PM

bs5 from marksmen in the unit you have to take

Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:31 PM

many many years ago

ToF Hero Jan-4 8:31 PM

At 1850pts, are kroot a must have?

Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:31 PM

when i met a nice girl in a bar

Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:31 PM

named fateweaver

ToF Hero Jan-4 8:31 PM

will do @ChipBoyd ; I'm catching up on the Tau responses atm

ToF Hero Jan-4 8:31 PM

Yeah...reading

Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:31 PM

(Approximately the same time nick realized basing an army around lucky dice rolls was the

best move for him)

ToF Hero Jan-4 8:31 PM

Nick - actually laughing out loud

ToF Hero Jan-4 8:31 PM

Catch up... The dog needs to take a dook

ToF Hero Jan-4 8:31 PM

@NickNanavati you sure it wasn't Trickster working a side job for Slaanesh?

Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:32 PM

=5+ with a reroll is better than a 2+

Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:32 PM

as long as you believe

Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:32 PM

I think one to two kroot units are a must have, just because you can see some serious

rush/infiltrate armies you need to buffer against

Jan-4 8:32 PM

Chip Boyd plays Journey - Don't Stop Believing

ToF Hero Jan-4 8:32 PM

believe really reeally hard and you can even make a 3+ save happen

Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:33 PM

Also because troops are mandatory and they're my favorite cheap ones

Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:33 PM

also you can nickname your army "chicken or fish?" once you have tau and kroot

ToF Hero Jan-4 8:33 PM

The other other white meat?

Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:33 PM

this time, cuter!

ToF Hero Jan-4 8:33 PM

So I already know what Nana's opinion on FW is. Gonyo, how do you feel about more

tournaments incorporating either 0-1 or more forge world units?

Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:33 PM

for 6 points more than the other minimum troop you get 4 more bodies, the same save in

cover, and infiltrate

ToF Hero Jan-4 8:34 PM

So this Lictor-spam list that won recently, was this just a fluke? Or should I recommend it to

my friend who is starting a Nid army?

Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:34 PM

I've actually played it a few times myself

Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:34 PM

my success rate with it is borderline 50/50

Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:34 PM

I was very against it, now i think its inevitable. In general I'm okay with it but it is challenging

for players learning what everything does, making sure people provide/bring rules, etc. I

think we need TO's to look at a specific ban list because some is just absurd. But in general,

most if fine

ToF Hero Jan-4 8:34 PM

Ahh interesting

Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:34 PM

and i play against pretty competitive players

Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:35 PM

but, i will say that i can certainly see how it won

Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:35 PM

It's pretty good but definitely a hard list to play with. It thrives off being msu, and the synergy

between lictors/mawlocs

Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:35 PM

its very powerful

Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:35 PM

it just needs a lot of practice to master

ToF Hero Jan-4 8:35 PM

Well fuck. I just started painting 36 converted fire warriors.

Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:35 PM

i like to think myself an above average player and i still make mistakes with it left and right

Chip Boyd Jan-4 8:35 PM

Sean Nayden is a very good player, and he had a plan going into that list. I don't think its a

list you can just pick up and make work.

ToF Hero Jan-4 8:36 PM

There's a big part of me that wants to scream FTW and show up with my TigerShark AX10

Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:36 PM

Lol, don't despair, there are uses but in general they're in rough shape right now

ToF Hero Jan-4 8:36 PM

Yeah. Don't tell my meta that.

Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:36 PM

with months of practice im sure it can be easily used to be a top list (as sean nayden has

shown) but without, it will just fall over

ToF Hero Jan-4 8:36 PM

Cool thanks! So would Triple (or Quad) Flyrants be (in general) an easier (stronger?) type

of list than Lictor-spam in your opinions?

ToF Hero Jan-4 8:37 PM

They are two busy trying to play the net lists while I'm just getting better with my one little

army haha

Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:37 PM

i think more than 3 is bad

Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:37 PM

It would definitely be easier to play, but I don't think it gives the palyers the options they

need to win tough games. It has a lower ceiling i guess is a way to put it. I'm with Nick 2-3 is

the sweet spot.

Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:37 PM

the "standard" nid list i guess would be 3 flyrants 3 crones 3 mawlocs

Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:37 PM

i think its certainly a strong build but will have iffy matches vs things like tau and eldar, which

lictorshame routinely beats

ToF Hero Jan-4 8:37 PM

Ah I see thanks!

Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:38 PM

Know what you mean, I've stuck with tau and been loving it, didnt I play the tau mirror

against you at 11th company 2 years ago?

ToF Hero Jan-4 8:38 PM

So you talk about "standard" nid lists, what are yall seeing as a "standard" tau list these

days?

Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:38 PM

My ego just grew like the grinch's heart

ToF Hero Jan-4 8:38 PM

In that same Genre for Tau, (where you said the "standard" list for Nids is "etc etc"......would

would you consider the "standard" list for Tau these days?

Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:39 PM

Standard tau lists generally revolve around skyrays, riptides, and broadsides

Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:39 PM

usually 2-3 units of each

ToF Hero Jan-4 8:39 PM

How important is the buffmander HQ?

ToF Hero Jan-4 8:39 PM

@AndrewGonyo I just started playing las August. Although I or chased my first hammerhead

when their first book dropped. First tournament was Scarab last year. Don't think it was me.

Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:39 PM

I think you really sell tau short when you play them like this because you pack in clearly good

units that dont work that well together

Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:39 PM

yeah i played a "standard tau list" the other month and won a local tournament

Chip Boyd Jan-4 8:39 PM

I think Buff Commander + missile crisis needs to be a staple of Tau lists.

Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:39 PM

to give you the gist

Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:40 PM

Darn i played a farsight bomb player that looked similar to you (saw your facebook request

just now) there 2 years ago and thought i was remembering right

Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:40 PM

Buffmander is sadly, very important, but not necessary

Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:40 PM

buffy, 3 missile target lock suits with 6 markers, iontide, 2x6 fire warriors 2 skyrays sniper

drones fire support cadre with bursttide

ToF Hero Jan-4 8:40 PM

For a shift in topic, what's one of the most underrated psychic powers in y'alls opinions?

Cleansing flame takes the cake for me.

ToF Hero Jan-4 8:41 PM

Nick with the bursttide do you do sky fire and intercepter?

ToF Hero Jan-4 8:41 PM

Hmm. Skyrays. Never found much success.

Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:41 PM

cleansing flame, misfortune, precog, molten beam

ToF Hero Jan-4 8:41 PM

I know everyone else loves them.

Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:41 PM

i love those ones

Chip Boyd Jan-4 8:41 PM

I think if used well, full BS overwatch can be really really good.

Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:42 PM

Santic in general, people usually think of it as malefics crappy counterpart, but it has some

really nifty powers, hammerhand, cleasning, its not just table- gate

Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:42 PM

or skyfire and precision

Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:42 PM

Skyrays - I love them

ToF Hero Jan-4 8:42 PM

@AndrewGonyo gotta take a time out but loved heirs crafting with you a. @NickNanavati

ToF Hero Jan-4 8:42 PM

Gonyo. Such knowledge

Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:42 PM

they give you multiple sources of marker lgihts (with skyrfire)

Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:42 PM

They're cheap (116 with blacksun filter), have great firepower, are durable, and put out

markerlights

Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:42 PM

thats their real strngth i think

ToF Hero Jan-4 8:42 PM

Right

ToF Hero Jan-4 8:42 PM

skyrays are such a good force multiplier

Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:42 PM

No problem adam, have a good night

Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:42 PM

and just erasing the random flyrant

ToF Hero Jan-4 8:43 PM

I may be back.

ToF Hero Jan-4 8:43 PM

<3

Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:43 PM

Main thing to remember with skyrayts - fire missiles, then use your tank

Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:43 PM

and move it

Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:43 PM

glad we could help

Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:43 PM

I almost always rack my missiles on t1 or t2, because then i feel like i actually get it back in

my army to play with

Chip Boyd Jan-4 8:44 PM

Then you can tank shock/SMS with it

ToF Hero Jan-4 8:44 PM

i find that it mostly contributes to marker support after it racks the missiles

ToF Hero Jan-4 8:44 PM

(skyrays)

Chip Boyd Jan-4 8:44 PM

@AndrewGonyo @NickNanavati What's the biggest single thing you've learned about

playing competitive 40k at the highest levels?

Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:45 PM

Definitely justin, sms and markersupport, and marker support is great for units contain

marker drones to snowball more hits (such as 1 markerlight hit on something flying giving out

mediocre skyfire to anything)

Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:46 PM

good question chip

ToF Hero Jan-4 8:46 PM

Thanks for the question Chip, basically I have learned that girls love it when you tell them

your strategy for the upcoming tourney.

ToF Hero Jan-4 8:46 PM

Are S8 AP3 missiles that tough in the current high armour meta?

Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:46 PM

how to play through a bad match

Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:46 PM

@ChipBoyd Probably how to problem solve different games in ways other than "kill it!"

Chip Boyd Jan-4 8:46 PM

My wife loves that.

ToF Hero Jan-4 8:46 PM

Bahahaha

Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:46 PM

I see players give up or get in bad situations and despair

Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:47 PM

in a practice game its easy to restart if you roll something stupid that greatly hampers the

match

Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:47 PM

and generally you can find a way to win a game with some hail-mary manuever if you think

hard enough

Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:47 PM

in tournaments you dont get the luxury

Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:47 PM

as an example

Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:47 PM

thinking through those different play options has lead to some fun tricks/outs not everyone

exercises

Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:47 PM

i was playing kelsey haley with his FMC's vs my nids at BFS in october

Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:47 PM

he rolled an 11 on warpstorm killing my warlord flyrant and getting firsst blood

Chip Boyd Jan-4 8:48 PM

Brutal

Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:48 PM

then he shrieked my other flyrant and killed him in one shot

ToF Hero Jan-4 8:48 PM

ouch!

Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:48 PM

by sticking to my guns, playing conservatively, and capitalizing on the mistakes he inevitably

made, i managed to win

ToF Hero Jan-4 8:48 PM

At what point did you shit your pants?

Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:48 PM

at that point i cracked a bottle of captain

Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:49 PM

but i never stopped playing to win

ToF Hero Jan-4 8:49 PM

Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:49 PM

also another lesson ive learned

Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:49 PM

when you lose a game

Chip Boyd Jan-4 8:49 PM

Learning to deal with misfortune can be challenging but is really important

Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:49 PM

you can always blame the match/lists/dice

Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:49 PM

lol

Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:49 PM

but more importantly you can blame your tactics

Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:50 PM

really try to self reflect on what fundamentally went wrong and try to improve

Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:50 PM

I'd agree with nick on that one, it can be tough and not always doable right after a bad beat

of a game

Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:51 PM

but thats how you learn to play rough matches better

Chip Boyd Jan-4 8:51 PM

We've got about 10 minutes left. For folks that joined late, if you've got anything you're

looking to ask Andrew or Nick, go ahead.

ToF Hero Jan-4 8:51 PM

10 minutes?

Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:51 PM

if no one can think of any questions i can always just make fun of gonyo for 10 minutes

ToF Hero Jan-4 8:51 PM

Boo...

ToF Hero Jan-4 8:52 PM

I have one

Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:52 PM

@NickNanavati Let me remind you of when you got held down in Sweden.

ToF Hero Jan-4 8:52 PM

How do you handle it when you get paired against a new/inexperienced player early in an

event? Do you have any tricks for minimizing the bad feelings if/when you slaughter them?

Chip Boyd Jan-4 8:52 PM

I've got one, if no one else does: favorite codex of all time

ToF Hero Jan-4 8:52 PM

How would you deal with someone in a tournament who is being very aggressive, trying to

push you into making a mistake?

Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:52 PM

Reconsider :-p

ToF Hero Jan-4 8:52 PM

if a dark angel hq with a power field generator is standing on the battlements of a macro

cannon, does the cannon get the shield too?

Chip Boyd Jan-4 8:52 PM

Oo, good questions, disregard mine.

ToF Hero Jan-4 8:52 PM

so what came first - the fluff/background/hobby or the game?

Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:52 PM

i try to teach them (not overbearingly) and help them get better

Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:53 PM

If he's within range of the physical gun, I think the gun would for sure

Chip Boyd Jan-4 8:53 PM

1. How do you handle it when you get paired against a new/inexperienced player early in an

event? Do you have any tricks for minimizing the bad feelings if/when you slaughter them?

2. How would you deal with someone in a tournament who is being very aggressive, trying to

push you into making a mistake?

3. if a dark angel hq with a power field generator is standing on the battlements of a macro

cannon, does the cannon get the shield too?

4. so what came first - the fluff/background/hobby or the game?

Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:53 PM

friednly nongamme costing advice can go a long way in making a friend

ToF Hero Jan-4 8:53 PM

When it comes to list building, between playing what you like and playing what the meta

dictates... Where do you draw the line? How do you find that balance?

Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:53 PM

Don't get bullied

Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:53 PM

its a real problem in 40k sadly, just plant your feet, stick to your guns, and remember who's

in charge

Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:53 PM

I've had that a couple times, but its pretty rare. In general just stay on your game, don't try to

appease them if they aren't having it, and just paly your game. Treat it more like a business

encounter and move on - there's some peopel (rare) that you just cant fix

Chip Boyd Jan-4 8:54 PM

Good advice, treating it like a business encounter.

ToF Hero Jan-4 8:54 PM

Hmm nice

Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:54 PM

Early in an event if I hit a new player, I try to just remember we were all there at one point,

and give advice/take it a bit easier

ToF Hero Jan-4 8:54 PM

Chapeau!

Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:55 PM

you will only ever do well by playing something you like

Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:55 PM

I'll still go for the win - you have to, you need to get points, but you don't have to utterly

punish someone mercilessly. Giving advice, allowing take backs for forgetful mistakes, etc. is

just a good way to make it friendly and help folks learn

Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:55 PM

i like to make a list/theme of things i like and tweak it to be more and more competitive but

always maintining my roots

Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:55 PM

thats actually how i came up with my FMC army that won adepticon last year

Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:55 PM

Agree with Nick - you have to find an army that fits your play style that you like to play. You

have to bend a bit to fit the meta, but end of day its a game and it has to be fun. I'm not

currently playing my guard or gks because i like tau better in this meta, but i still like tau

Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:56 PM

Demons are probably the best army at the moment - i hate the fluff, army, and how they

play, so its never something ill step into myself

ToF Hero Jan-4 8:56 PM

Thanks @NickNanavati feels good to hear that coming from such an accomplished player. I

get told left and right o ally this, ally that and it doesn't speak to me. So I don't. You just

made my convictions stronger hha

Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:56 PM

If you mean which came first for us, I first got into this for a hobby game

Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:56 PM

hahaha glad i could help Adam!

Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:56 PM

So im more of a competitive player now, but still love to paint and pick better painters heads

whenever i get the chance at events (max!)

Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:57 PM

And recently just fulfilled one of my big 40k goals, which was winning best paitned at a GT

(Renegade GT)

ToF Hero Jan-4 8:57 PM

Thanks guys! This was fun. Beers on me next time I see yall.

ToF Hero Jan-4 8:57 PM

Quick question, is it possible to make Thousand Sons work at all?

Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:57 PM

looking forward to it!

ToF Hero Jan-4 8:57 PM

at a High Level?

Chip Boyd Jan-4 8:57 PM

OMG NICK

Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:57 PM

Yay beer!

Chip Boyd Jan-4 8:57 PM

ITS LIKE I PLANTED HIM

Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:57 PM

ive been thinking about that recently

Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:57 PM

huh chip?

Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:57 PM

They look lovely on the shelf

Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:57 PM

ToF Hero Jan-4 8:57 PM

ya

Chip Boyd Jan-4 8:58 PM

Oh, you were trying to make noise marines, not 1k sons, sorry.

ToF Hero Jan-4 8:58 PM

play them as ultramarines

Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:58 PM

long story short... no

Chip Boyd Jan-4 8:58 PM

My mistake

Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:58 PM

god chip

Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:58 PM

noob

Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:58 PM

More seriously they could be a good anchor I think for an army, similar to LOTD, they've got

a save you cant take away and can be durable

Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:58 PM

but beyond that there will be more optimal choices unfortunately

ToF Hero Jan-4 8:58 PM

They are my true love (as of 1989 when I started 40k) but when I got back into it 1 year

ago....it has been a sad state of affairs for Thousand Sons....so I figured I would see what

the Pros thought

Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:59 PM

Like all things, it cycles, so come the next book, they may be pro again, you never know

Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:59 PM

i palyed daemonhunters in 4th, pre gk

ToF Hero Jan-4 8:59 PM

Whose coming to FTN? I wanna see @NickNanavati or @AndrewGonyo

Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:59 PM

once gk hit it was like i won the lottery

Chip Boyd Jan-4 8:59 PM

With the speed that new books are coming out, you could have a new 1k sons book this

spring!

Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 9:00 PM

haha, bit too far of a hike for me im guessing, wheres it at anyhow?

Nick Nanavati Jan-4 9:00 PM

i dont think i am

Chip Boyd Jan-4 9:00 PM

Midlothian, right?

ToF Hero Jan-4 9:00 PM

Durham

ToF Hero Jan-4 9:00 PM

At atomic empire, they have beer on tap sooooooo

Nick Nanavati Jan-4 9:00 PM

chip i think people are hopping in now because they didnt catch the 8pm Eastern

Chip Boyd Jan-4 9:01 PM

That was my guess too, @NickNanavati

ToF Hero Jan-4 9:01 PM

We will have a solid crew from The Southern Warhost there and I'm working to get my

sponsor PoweredPlay Gaming to step up with priE support and terrain.

ToF Hero Jan-4 9:01 PM

@NickNanavati you said you had been thinking about it recently? (thousand sons). What

had you been thinking?

Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 9:01 PM

If you've got any burning questions, feel free to shoot them at me and nick, ill stick for a

couple minutes

ToF Hero Jan-4 9:01 PM

thanks guys

ToF Hero Jan-4 9:02 PM

I'll leave yall alone. Have fun and thanks again!

Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 9:02 PM

Nice, nothing better than a really nice set up/store to play at, I got to experience the nicest Id

every been in in minnesota at the FFG headquarters

wowza

Take it easy, keep tau'ing!!

ToF Hero Jan-4 9:02 PM

Before you all go I just wanted to say thanks. This was fun and very informative