Chip Boyd Jan-4 8:01 PM
First question - how do you play Tyranids against Tau without losing 80 gaunts on Turn 1
ToF Hero Jan-4 8:01 PM
Reserver them all
Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:02 PM
Correct
Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:02 PM
both
ToF Hero Jan-4 8:02 PM
turn two you can just surrender?
Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:02 PM
nah
Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:02 PM
accidently forget about them until turn 5
Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:02 PM
I think the key nowadays is that tyranid lists are going to be composed of things other than
gaunts, like flyrants and such
Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:02 PM
then cover the objectives and hope the game ends
Chip Boyd Jan-4 8:03 PM
How many Flyrants is too many flyrants?
Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:03 PM
5 = too many
Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:03 PM
i think more than 3 is bad
Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:03 PM
2-3 = right
ToF Hero Jan-4 8:03 PM
i think 3 is all you ever need
Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:03 PM
Anytime you spam that much of one thing you run into making your list amazing in certain
matches, and pretty awful in others
Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:03 PM
2 is the get by amount
ToF Hero Jan-4 8:03 PM
also gonyo how do i play devilfish
Chip Boyd Jan-4 8:03 PM
What armies do you play?
Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:03 PM
Trick question, you dont
ToF Hero Jan-4 8:04 PM
Marines most Drop Pod ultramarines is my main addiction
ToF Hero Jan-4 8:04 PM
i mean army*
Chip Boyd Jan-4 8:04 PM
With or without Calgar?
ToF Hero Jan-4 8:04 PM
with
ToF Hero Jan-4 8:04 PM
love me some calgar
Chip Boyd Jan-4 8:04 PM
My man!
ToF Hero Jan-4 8:04 PM
Allways with! I actually collect Calgars...
Chip Boyd Jan-4 8:05 PM
My biggest fear with pods is that they'll reserve as much as they can and then alpha me right
back.
Chip Boyd Jan-4 8:05 PM
Nick/Andrew, what would you do vs an all pod list, and what would scare you?
Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:05 PM
Nick first since his answer is easier
Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:05 PM
i think a bigger issue is not having any ignores cover
Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:06 PM
well with my daemons i reserve everything but the plague drones
Chip Boyd Jan-4 8:06 PM
Which will have a 2+ in cover, I assume
Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:06 PM
plague drones in cover have a 2+ cover
Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:06 PM
yeah
ToF Hero Jan-4 8:07 PM
huh what is the toughness?
Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:07 PM
then just try to kill what i can, get my reserves in, buff up, and commence the marine killing
Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:07 PM
toughness 5 3 wounds fnp
Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:07 PM
I think Nick's pointed out the general way you counter a pod army, which is to hunker
down, reserve what you can, eat the alpha, then punish their lack of mobility
Chip Boyd Jan-4 8:07 PM
We're talking about Drop Pod marines currently
ToF Hero Jan-4 8:07 PM
ouch.. yup that will soak some damage
Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:07 PM
For myself, usually playing tau
Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:08 PM
I do similar, but i also buffer outwards to push the pods back using kroot (infiltrators), and
other large footprint units
ToF Hero Jan-4 8:08 PM
do you run a lot of intercepter?
Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:08 PM
you don't need a lot to buffer since if they're seperate units, you can space them as wide
apart as a pod to block pods from coming down (needing the 1 inch)
Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:08 PM
I typically don't run any interceptor actually
Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:09 PM
What pods can do well that I see missed a lot, is using key drops on initial pods to guide later
deepstrikes by blocking their backward scatters
Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:09 PM
i think interceptor on one unit if broadsides is really important
ToF Hero Jan-4 8:09 PM
wow I always figured that cheep intercepter was a main advantage of tau
Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:09 PM
since it keeps psychic death stars that choose to reserve from coming in next to you ad
buffing up
Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:09 PM
Typically not because it competes with other systems, and generally by using interceptor
you're forgoing your own shooting phase (one that has markerlights and tau chips) for a bad
one thats unbuffed
Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:10 PM
if they come in next to you when you have intercept you can shoot them before they go crazy
Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:10 PM
In general nick, there aren't any drop-in deathstars in general play
Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:10 PM
interceptor is more of a deterrent i feel
Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:10 PM
interceptor is nice for armies that just utilize things like legion of the damned, because its a
lower body count to deal with
Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:10 PM
but pod marines put out so many dudes
Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:10 PM
its also useful for stealing first blood from a pod army
Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:10 PM
if i kill a couple five mans its not that relevant
Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:11 PM
true nick, first blood is a nice bonus to have a pod unit
Chip Boyd Jan-4 8:11 PM
Andrew, other than bouncing backline pods, what else can a pod player do to play more
effectively?
Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:11 PM
Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:12 PM
In general for pod players to be more effective I think you really need to think about what
you're bringing
Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:12 PM
The correct pod count so you're getting in what you want, for instance, and having enough
different types of pod units so that you can have an initial drop that hits horde, or hits
armor, etc
Chip Boyd Jan-4 8:12 PM
As for format -- I'm going to play gentle moderator, and rotate questions/keep things moving.
I don't have strict guidelines, more like a friendly fireside chat.
Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:12 PM
Yeah we can move along with q's, ill let chip orchestrate
Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:12 PM
ask away!
Chip Boyd Jan-4 8:13 PM
So you're saying 100% melta in pods is not the correct build? Good to know
Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:13 PM
right now andrew was going through pods/how to play with and against them
ToF Hero Jan-4 8:13 PM
huh you joke Chip but I do run almost all melta in pods!
ToF Hero Jan-4 8:14 PM
I also love Cent-devis in wolf pods
ToF Hero Jan-4 8:14 PM
I'm thinking about running a macro cannon with dark strider on it and a buff commander to
deal with blob armies and knights, but I'm concerned about the terrain posture of Adepticon
and maelstrom missions.
Chip Boyd Jan-4 8:14 PM
My list was 100% melta also, but it was originally designed for an ETC/ATC style team
event.
Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:14 PM
you had asked me that a while back and i thought about it more, and have one key reason
its a bad idea
Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:14 PM
macro cannons are still emplaced weapons like any other
Chip Boyd Jan-4 8:14 PM
For folks not in the know, what's a Macro Cannon?
Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:14 PM
they're T7, 2 wounds, 3+ armor
Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:15 PM
so you paid for a gigantic 500-600 point fortification with a gun that fires like, a giant strength
D shot
Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:15 PM
(or 10?)
ToF Hero Jan-4 8:15 PM
Like. What is Gonyo's favorite color? And Nick's favorite kind of animal. But seriously, if
you've read any of my posts you may have noticed that I like to play Farsight. I'll sometimes
ally in Tau. But I enjoy building fairly TAC lists and using them to take on the nasty business.
I'm playing in the FTN in a couple months and I know I'll be seeing lots of AdLance which I'm
comfortable handling at 1850 but if I want to be successful do I need to build a dedicated anti
SuperHeavy list?
ToF Hero Jan-4 8:15 PM
I can paste a list if anyone is curious.
Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:15 PM
im very partial to bunnys
Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:15 PM
but if someone can neuter it by just killing your emplaced weapon, its going to have a bad
time unfortunately, its a super neat idea putting darkstrider on it
Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:15 PM
Definitely blue, least favorite is brown
ToF Hero Jan-4 8:16 PM
You told me it was red ! Liar!
Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:16 PM
brown=win
ToF Hero Jan-4 8:16 PM
I am experimenting with a full LotD list (similar to pods) using a minimal bunker + Sicarius +
2 scout squads (2+ re-rollable reserve)...but hunkering down for possibly 2 turns is scary vs
Drop Pods
Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:16 PM
so, about farsight bomb vs i knights…
ToF Hero Jan-4 8:16 PM
Baha @NickNanavati
ToF Hero Jan-4 8:17 PM
Yes, Nick. Technically it's not a bomb but I'm considering it.
Chip Boyd Jan-4 8:17 PM
Where do you get the reserve manipulation?
Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:17 PM
I don't think you need dedicated anti-super heavy abilities to compete nowadays, but you do
need answers to be able to movement block at least. Farsight bomb has some neat options
in that you have a huge unit, can split what facing each model is in, let them declare their
shield positions (before shooting phase), and then fire into a different knight that doesn't
have the shield correctly positioned
Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:17 PM
you can deep strike the bomb within melta range of an i knight
Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:17 PM
and then split your melta guys between sides to bypass shields
ToF Hero Jan-4 8:17 PM
Comms Relay and Captain Sicarius's +1 to Reserve Rolls
ToF Hero Jan-4 8:18 PM
(Ultramarine Captain from SM Codex)
Chip Boyd Jan-4 8:18 PM
Ah sorry, I was thinking that was the SM FW Tank! Too many units these days
Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:18 PM
With tau currently I play against knights almost entirely using movement blocking and not
actually killing them
ToF Hero Jan-4 8:18 PM
That's what I'm considering. It's a lot to count on at 1850 with a large portion of that in
reserves.
Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:18 PM
But thats a very different tau list
ToF Hero Jan-4 8:18 PM
Tau Buff'mander (Commander): target lock; drone controller; Command and Control Node;
Puretide Engram Neurochip; Multi-spectrum Sensor Suite; Neuroweb System Jammer; marker
drone; marker drone 174
Farsight Mark'O'mander (Commander): target lock; drone controller; velocity tracker; Fusion
Blades; marker drone; marker drone 172
Firebase Riptide (XV104 Riptide): ion accelerator; twin-linked fusion blaster 185
Farsight Riptide (XV104 Riptide): ion accelerator; twin-linked fusion blaster 185
3 Farsight Enclaves XV8 Crisis Team: Bonding Knife Ritual; Crisis Shas'ui (missile pod; missile
pod); Crisis Shas'ui (missile pod) 144
1 Farsight Enclaves XV8 Crisis Team: Bonding Knife Ritual 53
1 Farsight Enclaves XV8 Crisis Team: Bonding Knife Ritual 53
6 Fire Warriors 54
• Devilfish: twin-linked smart missile system 90
6 Fire Warriors 54
• Devilfish: twin-linked smart missile system 90
Hammerhead Gunship: railgun (submunition rounds); twin-linked smart missile system;
Longstrike 175
Firebase Broadsides (3 XV88 Broadside Team): Broadside Shas'ui (twin-linked high-yield
missile pod); Broadside Shas'ui (twin-linked high-yield missile pod); Broadside Shas'ui (twin-
linked high-yield missile pod) 195
Firebase Broadsides (3 XV88 Broadside Team): Broadside Shas'ui (twin-linked high-yield
missile pod); Broadside Shas'ui (twin-linked high-yield missile pod); Broadside Shas'ui (twin-
linked high-yield missile pod) 195
1,819 points
Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:19 PM
using things such as rip tides and sky rays in front, and deep striking melta suits behind an i
knight can really over stress their shield
ToF Hero Jan-4 8:19 PM
That's the list with some points to spare... I hadled AdLance no problem but only managed to
put 8hp on a brass scorpion/summoning army
ToF Hero Jan-4 8:19 PM
Good point.
Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:19 PM
Yeah, unfortunately demons can be a rough match no matter how you cut it for tau, because
as nick always reminds me
Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:20 PM
more guns don't solve unkillable 2+ reroll units
Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:20 PM
was the scorprion invisible or grimoired?
ToF Hero Jan-4 8:20 PM
To clarify Farsight primary : Tau secondary : Firebase Support Cadre
Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:20 PM
its only armor 13 with at best a 4++ otherwise, so no harder than a knight
Chip Boyd Jan-4 8:20 PM
How many HP?
Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:20 PM
6
ToF Hero Jan-4 8:21 PM
No, it wasn't. But it was D slapping my backfield.
Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:21 PM
hmm, without other buffs you should be able to power through it with just weight of fire
Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:21 PM
make sure you spread out so whatever shooting it has cant kill multipe units at once
ToF Hero Jan-4 8:21 PM
Based on what I understand, those knuckleheads at FTN like to bring BIG toys.
Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:22 PM
In general big toys that don't skim or jump are best combatted with movement blocking using
chump units
Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:22 PM
im not overly familiar with the brass scorpion im afraid, but if you run me through the
weapons i can try to suggest counters
Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:22 PM
i like to surround things with piranhas and then piranha disembarked drones
ToF Hero Jan-4 8:22 PM
Right. Think the FireWarriors in Fish are worth it? Firebase Cadre worth it? More Crisis? I'm
all ears.
Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:22 PM
stand there
Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:22 PM
let them waste turns
ToF Hero Jan-4 8:23 PM
I was mostly just wondering if anyone thought a primarily Legion of the Damned list
(hunkering down for 1-2 turns) with 2+ rerollable reserve rolls.....would be considered viable?
competitively? I have already used it in a tourney and did ok,felt strong, but I was just
wondering if anyone thinks it has any merit?
Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:23 PM
however, daemons match up very very well to tau so this may be only soo useful advice
Chip Boyd Jan-4 8:23 PM
I love everything about LoTD except for their inability to come in on turn 1
Chip Boyd Jan-4 8:23 PM
Melta, MM, combi-grav
ToF Hero Jan-4 8:23 PM
The brass scorpion has 9hp, a 20 shot something or other, a S10 or D blast AP2 and moves
18" with fleet.
Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:23 PM
i think devilfish are not worth it personally
Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:23 PM
I think your main issue is going to be that in general, you'll still have only 4 units, even if you
go with 4x10 mans
ToF Hero Jan-4 8:23 PM
Have you ever thought about Tiggy instead of Scicarius?
Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:24 PM
So it'll do alright, but if you play an msu army or someone with an ability to tie you up
Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:24 PM
i like your list with a couple exceptions
Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:24 PM
you may just not be able to hit enough things
ToF Hero Jan-4 8:24 PM
Well I am hoping its ok to have 7 units of them (3 Normal Elite choices + their own Codex
Detachment?)
ToF Hero Jan-4 8:24 PM
You think?
Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:24 PM
the hammerhead is too many points invested for a single shot which can be stopped easily
by an invul or bad damage roll
Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:24 PM
oh okay i forgot about the SM CAD
Chip Boyd Jan-4 8:24 PM
Wow, that is a lot of LoTD
Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:24 PM
and the devilfish ive found are wasted points
Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:24 PM
Firewarriors in fish...Justin hates them, and for reasons They generally dont shine,
they're interesting knight deterrents with EMP though, and good mobile scoring, but they're
just expensive unfortunately
Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:25 PM
i think tau benefit mroe from taking close to minimum troops and maximizing their speed/fire
power
Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:25 PM
I like fireblade cadre in general but you have to be careful not to let it make your army too
stationary, so the rest of the list needs mobility
ToF Hero Jan-4 8:25 PM
How do you deal with the knights with the Fire Wariors... don't they just get obliterated all the
time
ToF Hero Jan-4 8:25 PM
Right.
ToF Hero Jan-4 8:25 PM
Hey wait if you take Blood angles or wolves instead of vanilla marines couldn't he load LoD
in pods and get them in early
ToF Hero Jan-4 8:25 PM
They have to be on the board for at least a turn
Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:25 PM
Buffy + Crisis unit is my favorite thing since sliced bread (3x crisis suits, 6 marker
drones, target lock/double missile all around), but is different from your farsight bomb list
Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:25 PM
max stand in cover with emp grenades and act as a meat shield
Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:25 PM
Max - yeah thats their issue, they can hop out like nick said
Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:25 PM
stand
Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:25 PM
if they get too close charge them
ToF Hero Jan-4 8:25 PM
I guess strategically I am wondering if that type of a LotD army (possibly 7 units of them)
1850 points all meltas....could handle another army that had Flyers....or is Anti-Air (or your
own flyer) pretty much needed these days?
Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:26 PM
movement block
ToF Hero Jan-4 8:26 PM
I hide them and score later. I try to do as much damage with crisis, commanders an tides
while my fish can sneak around the board.
Chip Boyd Jan-4 8:26 PM
LoTD in pods is kind of gray, but I think most tournaments would rule it illegal. Deployment
vs Disembark vs Deep Strike, etc...
Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:26 PM
and then the kngiht player cant charge (no grenades) and doesn't want to be near you
Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:26 PM
it just makes it awkward for them which half the time is enough
ToF Hero Jan-4 8:26 PM
I get it. Thanks.
Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:26 PM
but you're right, without a bunch of cover
Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:26 PM
knight swings first and the units just arent big enough
ToF Hero Jan-4 8:26 PM
Buffy with missile crisis just wrecks eldar
Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:26 PM
Yep - its kind of amazing punishing wave serpents
Chip Boyd Jan-4 8:27 PM
I think a lot of flyer-heavy lists can be ignored, but there are a few I would be concerned
about.
ToF Hero Jan-4 8:27 PM
Maybe max out on crisis and order some more for a full Farsight fusion Bomb?
Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:27 PM
hiding them and using them to move around the board is a fairly efficient way to use them
Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:27 PM
but you could also take mobile fire power units like piranhas
Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:27 PM
or riptides
Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:27 PM
Could, but ive found non-buffied (or haevily markerlight supported) crisis to be sad
ToF Hero Jan-4 8:27 PM
Sad?
Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:27 PM
no need to hide and reserve around the table when the enemy is dead
ToF Hero Jan-4 8:28 PM
Right! Haha
Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:28 PM
as in they fire missiles to not much effect
Chip Boyd Jan-4 8:28 PM
Triple Flyrant, Helldrakes in general would be scary, I think. I wouldnt worry too much about
Night Scythes though.
Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:28 PM
It definitely could and you dont absolutely need anti-flier, but if you're doing an army like that
you need to be careful what the missions are
ToF Hero Jan-4 8:28 PM
Ah. Well, I playe a five serpent list and easily killed four serpents in one turn.
Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:28 PM
because sometimes not being able to interact with fliers is okay, sometimes its not
Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:29 PM
i did that to two people at Da Boyz GT recently..neither was super happy
Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:29 PM
+sniper drones
Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:29 PM
All the waveserpents and wraithknights had a bad time
Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:29 PM
tau match up very well to serpents if built properly
ToF Hero Jan-4 8:29 PM
I've never used sniper drones and only recently started experimenting with kroot. I hate
Kroot.
Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:29 PM
wheres all my daemon questions!
ToF Hero Jan-4 8:30 PM
Yes I was definitely concerned with Flyrants, and a large Pod-List who could possibly table
me by Turn 2 (with only a bunker, 2 scout squads and HQ inside) I have thought about using
the scout Land Speeder that forces Deep Strikers to scatter double D6 if they drop within 12"
ToF Hero Jan-4 8:30 PM
At te borderlands event, I finished third overall with a similar list plus two Razorsharks.
Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:30 PM
kroot are there just because they're mandatory, they infiltrate and push back opposing rush
armies, or they outflank and grab things in your opponents backfield you dont easily access
ToF Hero Jan-4 8:30 PM
where did you love obsession start with deamons start?
ToF Hero Jan-4 8:30 PM
Had I not played 300 Orks on turn two that I couldn't kill all of I may have won the damn thing
Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:30 PM
sniper drones with an eterheral for shot bubble is real deal
Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:30 PM
27 shots from 9 of them at 24 inches or less
Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:31 PM
bs5 from marksmen in the unit you have to take
Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:31 PM
many many years ago
ToF Hero Jan-4 8:31 PM
At 1850pts, are kroot a must have?
Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:31 PM
when i met a nice girl in a bar
Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:31 PM
named fateweaver
ToF Hero Jan-4 8:31 PM
will do @ChipBoyd ; I'm catching up on the Tau responses atm
ToF Hero Jan-4 8:31 PM
Yeah...reading
Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:31 PM
(Approximately the same time nick realized basing an army around lucky dice rolls was the
best move for him)
ToF Hero Jan-4 8:31 PM
Nick - actually laughing out loud
ToF Hero Jan-4 8:31 PM
Catch up... The dog needs to take a dook
ToF Hero Jan-4 8:31 PM
@NickNanavati you sure it wasn't Trickster working a side job for Slaanesh?
Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:32 PM
=5+ with a reroll is better than a 2+
Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:32 PM
as long as you believe
Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:32 PM
I think one to two kroot units are a must have, just because you can see some serious
rush/infiltrate armies you need to buffer against
Jan-4 8:32 PM
Chip Boyd plays Journey - Don't Stop Believing
ToF Hero Jan-4 8:32 PM
believe really reeally hard and you can even make a 3+ save happen
Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:33 PM
Also because troops are mandatory and they're my favorite cheap ones
Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:33 PM
also you can nickname your army "chicken or fish?" once you have tau and kroot
ToF Hero Jan-4 8:33 PM
The other other white meat?
Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:33 PM
this time, cuter!
ToF Hero Jan-4 8:33 PM
So I already know what Nana's opinion on FW is. Gonyo, how do you feel about more
tournaments incorporating either 0-1 or more forge world units?
Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:33 PM
for 6 points more than the other minimum troop you get 4 more bodies, the same save in
cover, and infiltrate
ToF Hero Jan-4 8:34 PM
So this Lictor-spam list that won recently, was this just a fluke? Or should I recommend it to
my friend who is starting a Nid army?
Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:34 PM
I've actually played it a few times myself
Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:34 PM
my success rate with it is borderline 50/50
Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:34 PM
I was very against it, now i think its inevitable. In general I'm okay with it but it is challenging
for players learning what everything does, making sure people provide/bring rules, etc. I
think we need TO's to look at a specific ban list because some is just absurd. But in general,
most if fine
ToF Hero Jan-4 8:34 PM
Ahh interesting
Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:34 PM
and i play against pretty competitive players
Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:35 PM
but, i will say that i can certainly see how it won
Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:35 PM
It's pretty good but definitely a hard list to play with. It thrives off being msu, and the synergy
between lictors/mawlocs
Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:35 PM
its very powerful
Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:35 PM
it just needs a lot of practice to master
ToF Hero Jan-4 8:35 PM
Well fuck. I just started painting 36 converted fire warriors.
Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:35 PM
i like to think myself an above average player and i still make mistakes with it left and right
Chip Boyd Jan-4 8:35 PM
Sean Nayden is a very good player, and he had a plan going into that list. I don't think its a
list you can just pick up and make work.
ToF Hero Jan-4 8:36 PM
There's a big part of me that wants to scream FTW and show up with my TigerShark AX10
Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:36 PM
Lol, don't despair, there are uses but in general they're in rough shape right now
ToF Hero Jan-4 8:36 PM
Yeah. Don't tell my meta that.
Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:36 PM
with months of practice im sure it can be easily used to be a top list (as sean nayden has
shown) but without, it will just fall over
ToF Hero Jan-4 8:36 PM
Cool thanks! So would Triple (or Quad) Flyrants be (in general) an easier (stronger?) type
of list than Lictor-spam in your opinions?
ToF Hero Jan-4 8:37 PM
They are two busy trying to play the net lists while I'm just getting better with my one little
army haha
Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:37 PM
i think more than 3 is bad
Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:37 PM
It would definitely be easier to play, but I don't think it gives the palyers the options they
need to win tough games. It has a lower ceiling i guess is a way to put it. I'm with Nick 2-3 is
the sweet spot.
Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:37 PM
the "standard" nid list i guess would be 3 flyrants 3 crones 3 mawlocs
Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:37 PM
i think its certainly a strong build but will have iffy matches vs things like tau and eldar, which
lictorshame routinely beats
ToF Hero Jan-4 8:37 PM
Ah I see thanks!
Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:38 PM
Know what you mean, I've stuck with tau and been loving it, didnt I play the tau mirror
against you at 11th company 2 years ago?
ToF Hero Jan-4 8:38 PM
So you talk about "standard" nid lists, what are yall seeing as a "standard" tau list these
days?
Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:38 PM
My ego just grew like the grinch's heart
ToF Hero Jan-4 8:38 PM
In that same Genre for Tau, (where you said the "standard" list for Nids is "etc etc"......would
would you consider the "standard" list for Tau these days?
Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:39 PM
Standard tau lists generally revolve around skyrays, riptides, and broadsides
Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:39 PM
usually 2-3 units of each
ToF Hero Jan-4 8:39 PM
How important is the buffmander HQ?
ToF Hero Jan-4 8:39 PM
@AndrewGonyo I just started playing las August. Although I or chased my first hammerhead
when their first book dropped. First tournament was Scarab last year. Don't think it was me.
Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:39 PM
I think you really sell tau short when you play them like this because you pack in clearly good
units that dont work that well together
Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:39 PM
yeah i played a "standard tau list" the other month and won a local tournament
Chip Boyd Jan-4 8:39 PM
I think Buff Commander + missile crisis needs to be a staple of Tau lists.
Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:39 PM
to give you the gist
Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:40 PM
Darn i played a farsight bomb player that looked similar to you (saw your facebook request
just now) there 2 years ago and thought i was remembering right
Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:40 PM
Buffmander is sadly, very important, but not necessary
Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:40 PM
buffy, 3 missile target lock suits with 6 markers, iontide, 2x6 fire warriors 2 skyrays sniper
drones fire support cadre with bursttide
ToF Hero Jan-4 8:40 PM
For a shift in topic, what's one of the most underrated psychic powers in y'alls opinions?
Cleansing flame takes the cake for me.
ToF Hero Jan-4 8:41 PM
Nick with the bursttide do you do sky fire and intercepter?
ToF Hero Jan-4 8:41 PM
Hmm. Skyrays. Never found much success.
Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:41 PM
cleansing flame, misfortune, precog, molten beam
ToF Hero Jan-4 8:41 PM
I know everyone else loves them.
Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:41 PM
i love those ones
Chip Boyd Jan-4 8:41 PM
I think if used well, full BS overwatch can be really really good.
Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:42 PM
Santic in general, people usually think of it as malefics crappy counterpart, but it has some
really nifty powers, hammerhand, cleasning, its not just table- gate
Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:42 PM
or skyfire and precision
Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:42 PM
Skyrays - I love them
ToF Hero Jan-4 8:42 PM
@AndrewGonyo gotta take a time out but loved heirs crafting with you a. @NickNanavati
ToF Hero Jan-4 8:42 PM
Gonyo. Such knowledge
Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:42 PM
they give you multiple sources of marker lgihts (with skyrfire)
Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:42 PM
They're cheap (116 with blacksun filter), have great firepower, are durable, and put out
markerlights
Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:42 PM
thats their real strngth i think
ToF Hero Jan-4 8:42 PM
Right
ToF Hero Jan-4 8:42 PM
skyrays are such a good force multiplier
Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:42 PM
No problem adam, have a good night
Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:42 PM
and just erasing the random flyrant
ToF Hero Jan-4 8:43 PM
I may be back.
ToF Hero Jan-4 8:43 PM
<3
Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:43 PM
Main thing to remember with skyrayts - fire missiles, then use your tank
Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:43 PM
and move it
Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:43 PM
glad we could help
Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:43 PM
I almost always rack my missiles on t1 or t2, because then i feel like i actually get it back in
my army to play with
Chip Boyd Jan-4 8:44 PM
Then you can tank shock/SMS with it
ToF Hero Jan-4 8:44 PM
i find that it mostly contributes to marker support after it racks the missiles
ToF Hero Jan-4 8:44 PM
(skyrays)
Chip Boyd Jan-4 8:44 PM
@AndrewGonyo @NickNanavati What's the biggest single thing you've learned about
playing competitive 40k at the highest levels?
Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:45 PM
Definitely justin, sms and markersupport, and marker support is great for units contain
marker drones to snowball more hits (such as 1 markerlight hit on something flying giving out
mediocre skyfire to anything)
Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:46 PM
good question chip
ToF Hero Jan-4 8:46 PM
Thanks for the question Chip, basically I have learned that girls love it when you tell them
your strategy for the upcoming tourney.
ToF Hero Jan-4 8:46 PM
Are S8 AP3 missiles that tough in the current high armour meta?
Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:46 PM
how to play through a bad match
Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:46 PM
@ChipBoyd Probably how to problem solve different games in ways other than "kill it!"
Chip Boyd Jan-4 8:46 PM
My wife loves that.
ToF Hero Jan-4 8:46 PM
Bahahaha
Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:46 PM
I see players give up or get in bad situations and despair
Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:47 PM
in a practice game its easy to restart if you roll something stupid that greatly hampers the
match
Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:47 PM
and generally you can find a way to win a game with some hail-mary manuever if you think
hard enough
Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:47 PM
in tournaments you dont get the luxury
Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:47 PM
as an example
Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:47 PM
thinking through those different play options has lead to some fun tricks/outs not everyone
exercises
Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:47 PM
i was playing kelsey haley with his FMC's vs my nids at BFS in october
Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:47 PM
he rolled an 11 on warpstorm killing my warlord flyrant and getting firsst blood
Chip Boyd Jan-4 8:48 PM
Brutal
Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:48 PM
then he shrieked my other flyrant and killed him in one shot
ToF Hero Jan-4 8:48 PM
ouch!
Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:48 PM
by sticking to my guns, playing conservatively, and capitalizing on the mistakes he inevitably
made, i managed to win
ToF Hero Jan-4 8:48 PM
At what point did you shit your pants?
Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:48 PM
at that point i cracked a bottle of captain
Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:49 PM
but i never stopped playing to win
ToF Hero Jan-4 8:49 PM
Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:49 PM
also another lesson ive learned
Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:49 PM
when you lose a game
Chip Boyd Jan-4 8:49 PM
Learning to deal with misfortune can be challenging but is really important
Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:49 PM
you can always blame the match/lists/dice
Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:49 PM
lol
Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:49 PM
but more importantly you can blame your tactics
Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:50 PM
really try to self reflect on what fundamentally went wrong and try to improve
Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:50 PM
I'd agree with nick on that one, it can be tough and not always doable right after a bad beat
of a game
Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:51 PM
but thats how you learn to play rough matches better
Chip Boyd Jan-4 8:51 PM
We've got about 10 minutes left. For folks that joined late, if you've got anything you're
looking to ask Andrew or Nick, go ahead.
ToF Hero Jan-4 8:51 PM
10 minutes?
Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:51 PM
if no one can think of any questions i can always just make fun of gonyo for 10 minutes
ToF Hero Jan-4 8:51 PM
Boo...
ToF Hero Jan-4 8:52 PM
I have one
Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:52 PM
@NickNanavati Let me remind you of when you got held down in Sweden.
ToF Hero Jan-4 8:52 PM
How do you handle it when you get paired against a new/inexperienced player early in an
event? Do you have any tricks for minimizing the bad feelings if/when you slaughter them?
Chip Boyd Jan-4 8:52 PM
I've got one, if no one else does: favorite codex of all time
ToF Hero Jan-4 8:52 PM
How would you deal with someone in a tournament who is being very aggressive, trying to
push you into making a mistake?
Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:52 PM
Reconsider :-p
ToF Hero Jan-4 8:52 PM
if a dark angel hq with a power field generator is standing on the battlements of a macro
cannon, does the cannon get the shield too?
Chip Boyd Jan-4 8:52 PM
Oo, good questions, disregard mine.
ToF Hero Jan-4 8:52 PM
so what came first - the fluff/background/hobby or the game?
Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:52 PM
i try to teach them (not overbearingly) and help them get better
Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:53 PM
If he's within range of the physical gun, I think the gun would for sure
Chip Boyd Jan-4 8:53 PM
1. How do you handle it when you get paired against a new/inexperienced player early in an
event? Do you have any tricks for minimizing the bad feelings if/when you slaughter them?
2. How would you deal with someone in a tournament who is being very aggressive, trying to
push you into making a mistake?
3. if a dark angel hq with a power field generator is standing on the battlements of a macro
cannon, does the cannon get the shield too?
4. so what came first - the fluff/background/hobby or the game?
Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:53 PM
friednly nongamme costing advice can go a long way in making a friend
ToF Hero Jan-4 8:53 PM
When it comes to list building, between playing what you like and playing what the meta
dictates... Where do you draw the line? How do you find that balance?
Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:53 PM
Don't get bullied
Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:53 PM
its a real problem in 40k sadly, just plant your feet, stick to your guns, and remember who's
in charge
Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:53 PM
I've had that a couple times, but its pretty rare. In general just stay on your game, don't try to
appease them if they aren't having it, and just paly your game. Treat it more like a business
encounter and move on - there's some peopel (rare) that you just cant fix
Chip Boyd Jan-4 8:54 PM
Good advice, treating it like a business encounter.
ToF Hero Jan-4 8:54 PM
Hmm nice
Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:54 PM
Early in an event if I hit a new player, I try to just remember we were all there at one point,
and give advice/take it a bit easier
ToF Hero Jan-4 8:54 PM
Chapeau!
Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:55 PM
you will only ever do well by playing something you like
Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:55 PM
I'll still go for the win - you have to, you need to get points, but you don't have to utterly
punish someone mercilessly. Giving advice, allowing take backs for forgetful mistakes, etc. is
just a good way to make it friendly and help folks learn
Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:55 PM
i like to make a list/theme of things i like and tweak it to be more and more competitive but
always maintining my roots
Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:55 PM
thats actually how i came up with my FMC army that won adepticon last year
Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:55 PM
Agree with Nick - you have to find an army that fits your play style that you like to play. You
have to bend a bit to fit the meta, but end of day its a game and it has to be fun. I'm not
currently playing my guard or gks because i like tau better in this meta, but i still like tau
Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:56 PM
Demons are probably the best army at the moment - i hate the fluff, army, and how they
play, so its never something ill step into myself
ToF Hero Jan-4 8:56 PM
Thanks @NickNanavati feels good to hear that coming from such an accomplished player. I
get told left and right o ally this, ally that and it doesn't speak to me. So I don't. You just
made my convictions stronger hha
Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:56 PM
If you mean which came first for us, I first got into this for a hobby game
Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:56 PM
hahaha glad i could help Adam!
Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:56 PM
So im more of a competitive player now, but still love to paint and pick better painters heads
whenever i get the chance at events (max!)
Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:57 PM
And recently just fulfilled one of my big 40k goals, which was winning best paitned at a GT
(Renegade GT)
ToF Hero Jan-4 8:57 PM
Thanks guys! This was fun. Beers on me next time I see yall.
ToF Hero Jan-4 8:57 PM
Quick question, is it possible to make Thousand Sons work at all?
Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:57 PM
looking forward to it!
ToF Hero Jan-4 8:57 PM
at a High Level?
Chip Boyd Jan-4 8:57 PM
OMG NICK
Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:57 PM
Yay beer!
Chip Boyd Jan-4 8:57 PM
ITS LIKE I PLANTED HIM
Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:57 PM
ive been thinking about that recently
Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:57 PM
huh chip?
Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:57 PM
They look lovely on the shelf
Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:57 PM
ToF Hero Jan-4 8:57 PM
ya
Chip Boyd Jan-4 8:58 PM
Oh, you were trying to make noise marines, not 1k sons, sorry.
ToF Hero Jan-4 8:58 PM
play them as ultramarines
Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:58 PM
long story short... no
Chip Boyd Jan-4 8:58 PM
My mistake
Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:58 PM
god chip
Nick Nanavati Jan-4 8:58 PM
noob
Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:58 PM
More seriously they could be a good anchor I think for an army, similar to LOTD, they've got
a save you cant take away and can be durable
Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:58 PM
but beyond that there will be more optimal choices unfortunately
ToF Hero Jan-4 8:58 PM
They are my true love (as of 1989 when I started 40k) but when I got back into it 1 year
ago....it has been a sad state of affairs for Thousand Sons....so I figured I would see what
the Pros thought
Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:59 PM
Like all things, it cycles, so come the next book, they may be pro again, you never know
Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:59 PM
i palyed daemonhunters in 4th, pre gk
ToF Hero Jan-4 8:59 PM
Whose coming to FTN? I wanna see @NickNanavati or @AndrewGonyo
Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 8:59 PM
once gk hit it was like i won the lottery
Chip Boyd Jan-4 8:59 PM
With the speed that new books are coming out, you could have a new 1k sons book this
spring!
Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 9:00 PM
haha, bit too far of a hike for me im guessing, wheres it at anyhow?
Nick Nanavati Jan-4 9:00 PM
i dont think i am
Chip Boyd Jan-4 9:00 PM
Midlothian, right?
ToF Hero Jan-4 9:00 PM
Durham
ToF Hero Jan-4 9:00 PM
At atomic empire, they have beer on tap sooooooo
Nick Nanavati Jan-4 9:00 PM
chip i think people are hopping in now because they didnt catch the 8pm Eastern
Chip Boyd Jan-4 9:01 PM
That was my guess too, @NickNanavati
ToF Hero Jan-4 9:01 PM
We will have a solid crew from The Southern Warhost there and I'm working to get my
sponsor PoweredPlay Gaming to step up with priE support and terrain.
ToF Hero Jan-4 9:01 PM
@NickNanavati you said you had been thinking about it recently? (thousand sons). What
had you been thinking?
Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 9:01 PM
If you've got any burning questions, feel free to shoot them at me and nick, ill stick for a
couple minutes
ToF Hero Jan-4 9:01 PM
thanks guys
ToF Hero Jan-4 9:02 PM
I'll leave yall alone. Have fun and thanks again!
Andrew Gonyo Jan-4 9:02 PM
Nice, nothing better than a really nice set up/store to play at, I got to experience the nicest Id
every been in in minnesota at the FFG headquarters
wowza
Take it easy, keep tau'ing!!
ToF Hero Jan-4 9:02 PM
Before you all go I just wanted to say thanks. This was fun and very informative