Richard Long’s Blog Talk Radio Show – May 8th, 2013It’s a Real Mother For Ya!

Richard: Ladies and Gentlemen: Here we are on the Dead End radio hour and it’s not going to be the Dead End, it’s going to be the Open Door radio show this evening, because we’ve got – you know, usually I talk about a lot of stuff that’s scary, creepy, weird and… and I guess Mother’s Day is a fitting topic for that (laughs) but no, we’re going to have something much more upbeat and fun and I’ve got, uh… it’s a Mother’s Day special; it’s a Real Mother For Ya, and I’ve got a real mother here for you, let me introduce my special guest, Ariane Zurcher

Ariane: Hello!

Richard: Well there she is, there she is. Now, Ariane, tell us a little bit about yourself…

Ariane: (Pause) You know… he said he was setting me up…

Richard: [overlapping] Well the setup was the question

Ariane: [overlapping] and that’s… well… blah blah blah blah… [laughs]

Ariane: So, all right… well, I’m Ariane… and… and I’m completely unprepared to introduce myself [laughs]

Richard: Well, OK, ladies and gentlemen, we’re going to wind back the clock back five seconds. Ariane Zurcher is a very special mother because she’s the mother of OUR children! Ariane is my wife, and she’s a fantastic mom and a great wife, and I really wanted to honor Mother’s day by giving her a chance to really talk about some of the really amazing things that she’s doing. Ariane is … you can… a lot of the people that are on here already tonight are already familiar with Ariane’s blog, Emma’s Hope Book, where she has been blogging for how many years is it now?

Ariane: Three!

Richard: Three years, about issues relating to autism, and the reason for that is that we have an eleven-year-old Autistic daughter named Emma, hence Emma’s Hope Book, and she started documenting it a while back and it’s really gone through a lot of different, uh, different changes…

Ariane: [overlapping] permutations, right, because it’s evolved, because it began as kind of a document of what we hoped and thought would be so-called “progress”, and we knew very little about autism other than what we were being told by experts – so-called “experts” -- people who were not Autistic, but in the field, and so … and what happened is that the blog evolved and … it started as our hope for our daughter and it really has evolved into a blog about our daughter who gives all of us

hope for humanity, and it’s in a way less about her journey and more about mine. So yeah, that’s kind of where Emma’s Hope Book …

Richard: Let’s back up a little bit before we talk about Emma’s Hope Book. What actually qualifies you as a mother?

Ariane: Other than the fact that we had sex?

Richard: Well, yes

Ariane: [laughs]

Richard: We have a child – we have two children, I believe.

Ariane: So everybody knows that there’s not a test, there’s no graduate course, and there probably should be! But… so Richard and I met, and I knew I wanted to have children, but it was a new feeling, because I had not … all through my twenties and most of my thirties, had been adamant that I did not want to have children – and then I felt really strongly that I did, and Richard and I met, and so we talked about having children, and then we did, and then we got married, and then we had our son first, Nic and then we had Emma. And it was the greatest thing in the world.

Richard: I was also extremely reluctant to have children, and… but then you know once I met you there was this whole different world opened up to me, and … now…

Ariane: And I would say that he says that to all the girls but, he doesn’t, because he doesn’t have any other children [laughs]

Richard: … by other girls. So…

Ariane: So there you have it.

Richard: So, we had our first child very quickly; we had only known each other about..

Ariane: About six… eight months…

Richard: Right. So like you said Nic was born before we were actually married. And, you know, at the time you were doing some copywriting work and after Nic was born…

Ariane: I was working at an advertising agency.

Richard: Yes, I’m familiar with that agency. And then once Nic was born you decided to be a householder.

Ariane: I wanted to be a mom. I wanted to… you know, in the rest of the country it’s a little different maybe than in New York City, but in New York City when you have a child it’s kind of a given that you’re going to go back to work right away – and … unlike in lots of other places in the country where that’s not a given. But here in New York it is… so people were saying things like, “oh, I’ve got these great nanny references” and I thought “I don’t want a nanny, I mean I went through 10 months of pregnancy and I actually want to hang with my kid and I want to be there and I want to know what that’s like and I want to experience it. And luckily I was able to, we could do that, so Richard worked and I hung out. And I tell you that I’m so glad, because it was … I’m so… I feel so grateful that I was able to have that experience with both the kids. It was really, really wonderful.

Richard: Well you know, like yourself I was very, very involved in career, I still am very much a career-ambitious kind of guy, but I left my business or retired from my advertising business shortly after Nic was born because I didn’t want to be… you know… I wanted to be able to … show up there, to be there around two and now I’m working all the time marketing my book. Actually I haven’t even introduced myself: My name is Richard Long, I’m the host, I’m the author of the Book of Paul, you can find out more about me and the Book of Paul at thebookofpaul.com, and on Facebook, I’m Richardlongnyc – what’s your Facebook handle there for people to visit you?

Ariane: I think it’s just my name, Ariane Zurcher…

Richard: Now can you spell that out for our guests?

Ariane: [spells her name], like Zurich

Richard: People have a hard time with that, you have to spell that all the time…

Ariane: I do.

Richard: “Zurker” is the most common one, and “Airy-an” instead of Ariane – but getting back to the whole pregnancy and when Nic was born, you know, we had to make a decision when you were pregnant as to whether or not we were going to do the amnio thing, and that was kind of a big deal, right?

Ariane: Yeah, that was a big deal because I was 39… Old for being pregnant…

Richard: And she’s older now…

Ariane: Now I’m a lot older, and so we went to this… you now we were told we should go to this geneticist … this counseling, and there was like a twenty-year-old girl there talking to me basically about how old I was; and I just found the whole thing so offensive, I remember just being indignant about it all, and thinking, you know, I’m not going to do this, we’re going to take what we get, and I remember

thinking… because at the time, you know, it was all about having a baby who was Down’s, and I had known a woman who had this amazingly beautiful little boy who was Down’s, and he was just – you know, just like this little light, and so I just … I actually wasn’t… well, I wasn’t really worried so much about that. But I mean, that was the thing that we were sort of focused on, was that maybe the baby would be Down’s and then, you know, what were we going to… you know… how were we going to go about helping that child and being a good parent to that child and so that was really the focus… and then Nic was born, and he wasn’t a Downs baby, and life went on.

Richard: And so the same thing, y’know, happened with your second pregnancy with Emma, we also, we’re older now so our odds are going up on the amnio crazy scale…

Ariane: Yeah, because I was 41 when I gave birth to Emma. And the thing about all of this… when you’re pregnant… now being a Mom, you don’t even think about those ten months… I mean relatively speaking they’re so short… but all the emphasis is on the pregnancy, you know, this is going to happen during this week and the next week, but that’s nothing compared to this life that you’re then going to lead with these two children that are…

Richard: Then you have to change the diaper…

Ariane: And then you have to change the diaper… we were not well prepared for the…

Richard: (Laughs) For the actual parenting part. The first part we were good, the parenting part…

Ariane: And I chose to do the whole natural thing and with Emma I would have given birth at home, but Richard was vehemently opposed which sort of… you know… rankled me, but he felt strongly… so I gave birth at a birthing center.

Richard: So Emma when she was born, she presented as typical in every way. Although I know my experience of it was different from when Nic was born. When Nic was born I was there actually on the receiving end… with the catcher’s mitt.

Ariane: You did.

Richard: So I actually held him and put him in your arms. And… and with Emma…

Ariane: Richard said… “Honey we have a son!” And I’m looking out the window and I’m thinking – Why is he telling me about the weather? I mean I couldn’t care less that it’s sunny outside, all I want to know (laughs) is what’s going on with the baby! (Laughs)

Richard: (Laughing) We have sunlight ladies and gentlemen… we have sunlight… And here’s your child…

Ariane: And then Emma was born and she, right away, was a very different soul. You could… I sensed it immediately. Richard you sensed something different because you were…

Richard: I didn’t… I mean I didn’t… I did not get… I actually had eye contact with Nic when he was born and I just felt like… we were looking at each other… and with Emma, she was not looking at me. She was kind of all scrunched up and I just didn’t feel like we were tuned into the same wavelength… whatever that means… but as she grew older… I really love little babies and I like holding them… with Nic I had developed my tears management techniques. I had the bouncy ball that I would bounce him up and down, hold him when he was crying and that would always soothe him, but Emma was kind of impossible to a… to…

Ariane: Emma had all the internal issues right from the get go. Also, interestingly enough, I remember thinking that it was like the air was hurting her skin. I remember thinking that. That sentence - that the air seemed to irritate her skin. And she had a lot of… I think she had a lot of internal… real discomfort and I think that made it really tough for the little girl. It was just very tough for her. You know we knew nothing. So we’re moving along in life and the kids are getting older and becoming toddlers and one just… you know nothing and you go along and life continues.

Richard: For those who are just tuning in… I want to remind everyone that the chat room is open and you can go in there and (said with a New York accent) tawks amongst yuselves and type away and chat... My name is Richard Long. I am the host of the Dead End Radio Show Hour and I’m the author of The Book of Paul. But tonight what we are talking about is motherhood. I’m here with my lovely wife, Ariane Zurcher and if you have been listening from the beginning you can see that autism is a big part of what we’re going to be talking about in regards to parenting because we have an Autistic daughter named Emma and Ariane has been very active in the autism community through her blog Emma’s Hope Book dot com and also in a lot of other ways that we’re going to get to here really quickly. So when did you feel like something was really different? When did it… or how did it… Or was it just so gradual you just didn’t notice?

Ariane: There was a lot of stuff… I did a couple of Mommy and me classes, one of them was with one of my closest girlfriends who has a daughter that’s just a couple of weeks away from Emma and we took the class together. Emma wasn’t interested in the art projects… She was very independent and she was very interested in movement. There was a big slide and that’s what she really wanted to do. She wanted to go up the little ladder and down the slide over and over… And the music… so when the leader would get out their guitar she was fascinated with that.

But anything else… she just wasn’t interested. I remember thinking at the time that all these other kids were sitting there quietly with their hands in their laps when the person leading the group would start doing story time. Emma was… I’m hauling after her trying to get her off the slide… I think this whole thing with autism… the thing that I’ve seen… the growth that I feel I’ve gone through is really seeing how there’s so much that we do in society that we don’t even think about. Why should a group of 2-year olds sit quietly in a circle and listen to someone read? You know? Why not go down the slide? But these are all the things… this was just the way it’s done and so there were these moments when I would think - Oh my gosh, this isn’t our daughter’s experience, but I had no idea… I really knew nothing… And I had no idea what was going on. So the words used would be things like – “What’s wrong?” Which is the way our society is set up. “What’s wrong?”

Richard: I know for me during…

Ariane: But there wasn’t anything “wrong”…

Richard: during that really young period when she was a toddler… I remember we would talk about – “Oh! She’s so independent!” Because she would toddle around the house, she wouldn’t look at us, she wouldn’t necessarily respond if we talked to her or called her name and she would just do whatever she was doing. She seemed perfectly happy doing all that, but…

Ariane: Yeah, she was really happy. I think this is a really interesting piece here that Richard’s brought up, which is this independent piece. We both began thinking she was incredibly independent. I remember feeling actually quite proud of her that she was so independent and thinking you know, this is going to serve her well later in life for sure… And then once we got the diagnosis, all of that… that I thought was so positive became this crushing deficit of negativity…

Richard: Right…

Ariane: It was brutal. I remember clearly when that switch happened and suddenly it wasn’t independence anymore, it was autism.

Richard: Right…

Ariane: And what’s happened is, in the last year plus is that… I think for Richard and I both, but I think certainly for me, I’ve regained that sense of awe about my child, that yes, she really is independent and it’s amazing and it’s wonderful and it’s a great thing instead of allowing this thing that really is a wonderful thing, as this crushing, negative label that gets put on her.

Richard: It’s really interesting in the beginning (laughs) it was like – Oh, it’s so great, she’s so independent because we’re old and tired and we still never got any sleep

from Nic and we’re not getting any sleep with her and isn’t it great that we don’t have to entertain her… do stuff continuously to entertain her cause she’s so entertained with herself. But like you say, once you get the information and what the so-called symptoms are of autism and all that, then you do start getting everything through a different lens. Where every aspect of her character becomes an aspect of a symptom… Ariane: Or if you look at the experts, it’s a disorder. And that… and I object to all of that at this point. I just… I don’t think it… and I speak from my own perspective. I just feel that my journey as a parent with my daughter, but to some degree… but with Nic as well, it bleeds over, this idea of labeling is really, really not helpful for any of our children and the double standard that exists for autism is really striking and very, very upsetting. I would not do the kind of critique, the scrutinizing critique of my son that almost everyone just assumes we’re going to do with our daughter and to me I think that’s just wrong and that needs to be really changed. That really, really needs to be changed.

Richard: Now what was it like when you first received the diagnosis? You were the one who got the call.

Ariane: Yeah. I was actually at a conference out in Philadelphia. And I remember it was raining and I was standing under this maple tree and it was kind of dripping down. And the woman said, “I’m sorry to be the one to tell you, but your daughter has been diagnosed with autism” and, not with autism, with PDD-NOS and then she said this really weird thing, she said, “do you agree with that?” And I remember thinking..

Richard: (laughs) Do I have a choice?

Ariane: So if I don’t agree, like that’s somehow going to, like what does that have to do with anything? You know? (laughs) I mean I just, I remember just sort of sitting there…

Richard: (laughing) Are we on the same page here?

Ariane: Right. I remember sort of looking out and thinking - okay is this a trick question?

Richard: (Laughing)

Ariane: Am I missing something here? But it was…

Richard: You get points if you answer correctly…

Ariane: It was… it was you know as I said, I mean, it was something that I really knew nothing about, and what little I did know, was very fearful. The message of

fear. And… and so yeah, I wasn’t happy I was very upset and I remember crying and thinking we’re going to help her. You know we’re going to fix this. I don’t want to spend a lot of time with all of that, because, because I don’t think anyone… people who go down that road, know that road well, people who don’t, don’t need to hear about it, but you know, we did go down this road of fixing and it’s a road I regret having gone down, but um… but I feel that in the last year, which is when I started to really connect with other Autistic people and… and many of whom have become friends, like two of our guests who are going to be coming up, Ibby and Paula, where those people… those friendships and relationships have really, really changed everything for me. Not just as a parent and my view of my daughter, but literally every aspect of life. It has opened up a world that I did not know existed and that is a beautiful world. It is a much better world and I am so much happier and Emma is happier and I think my husband is probably quite a bit happier…

Richard: Oh I’m a happy guy!

Ariane: (laughs)

Richard: You know I was just reflecting on… you know when you called me, after you got the call, I got the call. And I was walking down 6th Avenue and I just felt stunned. And I think a big part of… of feeling what I felt is, I had no idea… I mean the only images that I had of autism were Rainman, right? Strangely enough I think maybe a year or two previously a friend of mine had called and said that he had an Autistic child, and I remember getting off the phone and saying Oh my God, that’s terrible. But I didn’t know what it meant I just… I just knew that this was not a great thing, you know and… and you immediately, I mean I think you’ve written a number of times in your blog and they’re really good entries a number of times… what happens to parents as soon as they’re given the diagnosis is you immediately get overwhelmed with this fear culture. Of…

Ariane: Right.

Richard: Of you know, everything is… you know?

Ariane: Right. And I would love to think that… that… there’s enough of us now talking about this stuff that we can start to change it and I think there is change I mean I think there are just so many people out there talking about the negativity and the information that new parents are being given but it’s really, really I think quite cruel to… to… to give this kind of gloom and doom scenario to stressed out parents who don’t know what’s going on, who feel very confused, who may feel they’re not connecting with their child in the way that they thought they would… and I… I just think that there are so many other things that we could be doing as a society to help those who are being given a diagnosis for the first time and so it’s a… with a much more balanced view. So parents aren’t just going off reeling and crying and thinking this is the most terrible thing…

Richard: The worst thing that’s ever happened to us… you wrote… you wrote… I mean I think you’ve written more than one blog on this topic, but you’ve written one that I remember very clearly and I think… what was the name of it? What… like it was sort of a conjecture, like - what would things be like if this is how it was introduced to you… Do you know the blog I’m talking about?

Ariane: I don’t remember…

Richard: I think it even started with something like that… What if…

Ariane: Right.

Richard: And instead of the usual scenario where you’re told here’s this and this and here’s all the things you need to do… but what I remember being extremely impressed is that the number one thing that you recommended was start talking to some people who are Autistic.

Ariane: So… sorry our son was calling, he’s on a trip to Boston… (laughs) and I just got distracted… but um…

Richard: Being a mother…

Ariane: (laughs) Right. Um… Juggling, right? That’s what we do. We juggle. We juggle and then… and then balls inevitably fall and we just pick them back up and keep juggling. I think that sums up the wisdom of mothering and motherhood. But… so can you just quickly ask me what the question was again?

Richard: Well…

Ariane: (laughs) Sorry

Richard and Ariane: (laughing)

Richard: That’s called being thrown off track by something happening on the side here…

Ariane: (laughing)

Richard: Well… I think, you know… we’re going to get into your journey and how your view points evolved as we continue, but kind of after you had discovered the blogs of Autistic people and started making friends that were Autistic adults and you realized what a revolutionary thing that was for you and then for me once you introduced me to the entire a… you know, this entire different world that I wasn’t aware of… you were suggesting… like the first thing that a parent… that should happen to a parent once their child is diagnosed with autism is that you start consulting some of these blogs and you start realizing that the view you’re being

told of everything being a deficit and a handicap and this… there’s so much more and there are so many positive qualities and there are so many amazing qualities as well.

Ariane: Right. Right. So there’s a lack of balance for sure and one of the… I remember I spent… oh god I don’t know… I mean… I’m pretty obsessive and I started reading Julia Bascom’s Just Stimming blog and read it from the beginning. You know I had been sent a link by a follower of my blog and a… the Obsessive Joy of Autism and I remember just reading it and crying and reading it again and then going back to the first, you know, post she’d ever written and then methodically going through every single post and then from hers I’d read the comments and I’d find other people who were Autistic who were commenting and I’d go to their blog and then I’d start from the beginning and I’d read every single thing that they’d written. Some of them were really painful. Some of them were really angry and some of them were really… just brutal because of the… of the abuse and the denigration and the prejudice and the things that they had been forced to go through at the hands of their well meaning parents and some not so well meaning parents and… I mean it was just such an eye opener and there were things that… Kassianne has a blog, Neurodivergence Speaking, which was… it was rough. I mean I read a couple posts and I remember just thinking – oh my gosh, you know, I’ve done something like that or I’ve said something like that or I’ve… whatever… it was just… it was an eye opener and I… but I really… you know and people were commenting and saying, oh there’s anger and I can’t deal with the anger and I just thought – Yeah there’s anger. Why wouldn’t there be anger? Of course there’s anger. I mean I connected with the anger. I really… That resonated… and then I went to this… to Hunter College… to this disabilities conference that Ibby was speaking at and I met Ib! It was… I just looked at Ibby and I just thought… and she flapped and I was so honored because she… it was the biggest compliment anyone could have ever given me. She looked at me and she flapped her hands and I was just… it was all I could do not to start sobbing, I was so… (laughs)

Richard: I am reading in the chat room Ibby is flapping in the chat room.

Ariane & Richard: (laughing)

Richard: (laughing) Excellent!

Ariane: (Laughing) So… I mean… and then Ib and I just hit it off. She’s funny… she’s great… so… you know… and suddenly all this kind of othering… this otherness of this neurology that we call “autism”… suddenly it wasn’t so “other” any more… it was… And Ibby said to me at one point, she said, “Welcome to the tribe! You’ve found your daughter’s tribe!” And I remember just thinking – Oh my gosh, this is the greatest thing! You know? It was like I’d hit the jackpot, honestly. And then Ib and I started developing this… this really strong friendship and I… it… it really just changed my life. It really, really changed my life.

Richard: And my life as well!

Ariane: I love you Ibby!

Richard: (laughing) Flap, flap, flap!

Ariane: (Laughing)

Richard: We’re coming up on the hour - nine o’clock. This is Richard Long. I’m your host and I’m talking with Ariane Zurcher, who is my wife and the mother of our two, wonderful children, our son Nic who is thirteen years old and is away in Boston, doing some kind of crazy history thing… and our daughter, Emma, who is unfortunately not feeling so well tonight and is snoozing… I know you don’t want to talk too much about the years and years that we were in cure… you know the whole… talk about autism… and autism speaks, but what were some of the… we just did all these different things… What were some of the…

Ariane: Right. So it’s painful to talk about it because I mean what… Ibby knows this stuff because I’ve confided in her a lot about it… you know I feel a lot of guilt and it’s not… the thing about the cure road is that… I chose to pursue all kinds of things that we had no idea what the effect was going to be on our child… and… I really don’t want to talk about it because it’s so painful and it makes me feel so sad and it makes me so unhappy that those were the choices… and… I have regret and I really feel regret is kind of a no win… So I try really hard to focus on the things that we’re doing now to support her that are so great. What I can say is that… we tried a lot of stuff. We tried biomedical stuff, we tried all kinds of pretty intrusive therapies, we tried all kinds of things and…

Richard: Well, let me change tracks here for a second…

Ariane: Thank you…

Richard: Because…

Ariane: (Laughing) Thank you!

Richard: Because I need to… (laughing) and… and I know you don’t like talking about this stuff…

Ariane: I don’t. I really don’t.

Richard: Something positive, in a weird sort of way, something positive came out of the sheer continuous stress that we were under during all these years… at some point I formed a parent support group and I started taking anti-depressants… those were my… my two-pronged approach to dealing with how I was feeling with the stress and everything else and in the parent support group that I had, they had this

list of different things… like stress buster things and one of the them was a hobby and you were spending so much time on the web researching all this stuff all the time that I said, “You know you need to get a hobby,” and so you started making jewelry.

Ariane: Right. Richard… I had been in fashion design for years and knew it was not a good fit for me and gone for… for graduate studies in writing and Richard said, well… and I’d basically stopped writing… I’d just stopped completely and Richard said something about jewelry and I remember thinking – Oh my gosh that’s way too close to fashion. I don’t want anything to do with it, that’s a world I don’t want to… But he said, “Just take a class…” So I took a class and there’s something about the hands on work with metal and with all the heavy equipment and the soldering and I started… I learned how to carve wax and I started making models out of silver and… gosh, it was just… It was so wonderful. It was so transportive. It took me out of my crazy head… I just had this very crazy head and… It took all of that… all of that chatter that just kept going on… it silenced it.

Richard: And it turns out you’re pretty good at it… so Ariane is probably not going to plug herself as aggressively as someone… (Laughs) as someone next to her might… Please! If your listening check out her designs at arianezurcher.com (spells name) dot com and you’ll see she’s this incredibly talented jewelry designer. You won the Rising Star Award the first year that you…

Ariane: I did!

Richard: That’s quite an achievement!

Ariane: It happened right as the economy was crashing, (laughs) sadly but…

Richard: (Laughs) But you won the award!

Ariane: But I did win the award and it was great and it was a big honor! A big honor!

Richard: And you also have just come up with a new development in your line of jewelry called Transitions, right?

Ariane: Right.

Richard: Tell us about that…

Ariane: Transitions… so there are two things… There’s this collection that I started creating for women like me! Women who are busy and maybe doing… well today would be a great example, a trunk show and then doing a radio thing in the evening and maybe there’s a meeting in there and maybe you have to get dressed up and meet a client and maybe after that you’re going to an art opening and so jewelry that

would work for all those different occasions... So there are things that come off and you can carry these gemstones or a diamond … it’s hard to describe it and it doesn’t do it justice over the radio, but…

Richard: But now you can go and play… because you’ve got a new interface where you can mix and match things…

Ariane: That’s right. On the website…. (www.arianezurcher.com) You can add gemstones and see what it looks like… you start with a base and it’s exciting and fun and coupled with that I also started another blog which is called Where Art and Life Meet (http://whereartandlifemeet.com) and it’s about… art and parenting and marriage and life and where inspiration comes from and everything in between… and for me they meet in… I create in my studio... and the things I design are a reflection of all that…

Richard: Yeah… Gorgeous work and one of the things we said when we started here... when we launched the show is that whole balancing act – career, mother, wife, trying to have a social life… and in your case… because you’ve become so active in the Autistic community or the autism community… that’s an awful lot… what are some of the things you’re doing in that area right now?

Ariane: You mean as far as…

Richard: Don’t you have some speaking engagements coming up?

Ariane: I’ve been asked to present up in Syracuse in July at their conference and Ibby and I have got a book that we’re working on together called… our working title is Friendship is a Fact… I’m also working on a book that is really a compilation of the blog... some of the blog pieces and trying to put all those pieces together and compile them into a book and I’ll write some new stuff for it as well… lots of stuff… lots of stuff going on…

Richard: Speaking of Ibby… maybe we should just make her microphone live! Which one is it?

Ariane: That one…

Richard: Ibby are you there?

Waiting

Ariane: Hmm… maybe Ibby stepped away.

Richard: Did you step away? (Laughs) Okay… Um…

Ariane: So… (Pauses) We have three guests and I’m just going to introduce them and we’re going to put everybody on… on the microphone. Are all your mics on?

Muffled noises

Ibby: Hi… Can you guys hear me now?

Ariane: Yes! Hi Ib!!

Ibby: People are telling me to press unmute.

Papers shuffling, laughter

Woman’s voice: Uh, hi

Ariane: What about you Paula?

Paula: Hi

Ariane: Alright, so I’m going to introduce you guys. So, we’ve got Ibby, also known aka Elizabeth Grace. Ibby, say hi.

Ibby: Hi

Ariane: And do you want to, do you want to say something about yourself?

Ibby: No, that’s okay.

Chuckle

Ariane: Ib... You need to say something about how… (Ibby laughs) You don’t have to say how awesome you are. I’ll do that. Or how brilliant you are. I’ll do that too.

Richard: Well, let me jump in. How did you guys meet? I mean you talked about it a little bit, but you know… and Ariane was saying what that experience was like for… for her and what was it like for you when you guys hooked up, Ibby?

Ibby: So… So that was really excellent because I was in the bathroom and um it was at Hunter College and it was the first time I ever presented in an academic conference about my own business… in, in any way and, and I was never going to do that. So, (pauses) I um I was nervous about that and I did that because I had some people I was bringing with me and I wanted to open the floor for them. So I made a panel. I said well I’m going to talk about my own business uh and it’ll be okay but the press was coming so that was no pressure (sarcasm) (laughter) but then I recognized (laughs while saying something). I was like whoa! Uh flap! She’s actually completely awesome! She came (laughing) She’s got the realist smile on the planet

that was, she was completely um (pauses) seeing me as a person and not as like a um like a story or a um deficit mannequin or I don’t know what kind of thing (laughter). So I, I was just really happy (laughing) that we just had this connection…

Richard (interrupts) Can we put deficit mannequin on a bumper sticker?

(Laughter)

Ibby: Good idea! (Laughing) I was just so happy that we just had this… You know, one of my favorite philosophers was named Martin Buber… and he…he wrote a beautiful, beautiful book, “I and Thou”, talking about the real I/Thou connection… we just had that. I was like, bam! There was my flap. (Laughter)

Richard: Bam, Flap, Boom! And… and… Lauri are you here?

Lauri: I am. Hi.

Ariane: Hi Lauri. So this is Lauri Swann Hunt of Olliebean. Can you tell us a little bit about… about Olliebean and… and you? Your fabulousness you?

Lauri: Um (laughs) You know I’m really bad at this, but…

Ariane: Okay, so I’m going to ask you… So you are the mother of…?

Lauri: Henry. Henry Frost.

Ariane: Henry and Olivia and Lily…

Lauri: …and Lily, yes. Yes, I didn’t mean to exclude Olivia and Lily, but I figured maybe some people listening may know Henry. Um… but yes so the seventeen year old, fifteen year old, and thirteen year old.

Ariane: Right and Henry many people may… may recognize Henry because…?

Lauri: He has a Facebook page “I Stand With Henry” and he has… he kind of has issues getting into the school in our neighborhood and he is now there. Thanks to many people listening… all of your support and Henry’s tenacity and doing… you know… he’s doing really well and we’re proud of all the kids.

Ariane: And I actually had the opportunity and the honor of interviewing Henry for a Huffington Post piece that I wrote.

Lauri: Yeah.

Ariane: And that’s when I… Remember? And that’s when I found out that Henry liked cars (pauses) so much.

Lauri: Cars and architecture and then we luckily… we just met about a month ago and we’ve been friends online for… a while and I was telling the kids don’t try this at home… You don’t meet someone online and then invite them to your home to stay… typically… (laughs) but it was so lovely to be with your family and…

Richard: And you are quite the hostess Lauri, we felt so welcome in your home.

Ariane: We had such a great time.

Lauri: Oh, thank you.

Ariane: But so… Lauri and I have only… have spoken on the phone and we’ve done DM’s on Facebook and all of that and then she says, “Oh come on just get on an airplane and come down for four days”!

Lauri: (laughs)

Ariane: And it was SO great! Emma had a blast… such a great time.

Richard: Also one of the…

Lauri: I’m saving her chocolate milk. The expiration date is at least seven more months…

Ariane: Excellent!

Lauri: But it’s in there. We’re waiting for you!

Richard: Now the occasion of our trip down there was for the screening of a film “Wretches and Jabberers” and… why don’t you talk a little about that because that had a big impact on your whole perception of a lot of stuff.

Lauri: It did and it sounds so similar to… Ariane’s description of meeting Ibby and… our family’s experience meeting Tracy Thresher and Larry Bissonnette that are in the movie and are autistic and type to communicate like Henry does. They came… to Tampa in June of 2011. Ollibean brought the film here and… they came over for dinner and… Tracy and Henry just had this instant brief just this instant, instant connection… and it was so beautiful and… really Ariane describes everything so much better than I do, I feel. That… just that… moment where you feel that everything is right in the world and we just connected and it was the same when you guys were here… where everyone… there is no deficits at all and that’s… Henry’s always made that easy to see for us but it was so wonderful to see him becoming empowered and speaking out and just… meeting other people that… that type to communicate and that meeting other people that are autistic and meeting…

it was it was just such a beautiful, wonderful experience for our entire family that um it just changed everything for all of us.

Richard: Well one of the things that I really you know really recall from that trip was when we came back to your house and and everybody was typing to each other and including Emma. Now, Ariane we didn’t have a chance to cover this when we were talking before but it hasn’t been until recently that we knew that Emma could read, could type, that she was understanding what we were saying and the whole… typing thing revolutionized our whole viewpoint on things.

Ariane: Right, so like everything it goes back to Ibby again… because Ibby said to me, “You’ve gotta watch this awesome documentary called “Wretches and Jabberers”” and I’d say, “Oh, okay. Yeah sure I’ll watch it” and then she’d say a week later, “So did you watch “Wretches and Jabberers”?”. I’d say yeah no, no it’s in the queue, I’m going to watch it. After about a month, I’d finally watched it and it completely blew my mind and I then went to the Autcom conference in the fall and I had the opportunity to meet Tracy and Larry and Pascal and Harvey who are all in the film and I approached Pascal and Harvey and said “You know my daughter has some language but do you think that this might be beneficial for her?” and because we… it’s not conversational our language and they said it’s worth absolutely worth giving it a try and so we have started… starting to learn how to support her in typing and it’s been absolutely mind blowing!

Lauri: And they were so awesome together, Emma and Henry!

Ariane: Ah!

Lauri: I know, ah!

Ariane: So great!

Richard: And for people who don’t know or haven’t heard about “Wretches and Jabberers”. It’s about about two… adult men who typed to communicate and… it’s… it’s free to watch if you’ve got Netflix… you know the instant view, you can go there and watch it. It’s incredible to see these are people that have an awful lot to say and are are now getting an opportunity to say that to a big community.

Ariane: Right. I think… Lauri… the weekend that we spent… the word I kept thinking the whole time was - this is “magical”. If other parents could have that experience that we had with all of you… that it just… this world would change… it would be just a different world. And Paula… Paula… has been fabulous with… Paula… Paula is someone I interviewed for the Huffington post and her interview really began from this video. Paula do you want to talk about the video that you did that I then used in the Huffington Post piece and we kind of piggy backed onto that?

Paula: Yeah… hi! Can you hear me?

Ariane: Yup

Paula: I want to make sure before I start talking. So, I made a video… oh yeah, I’m Paula Durbin-Westby and I’m Autistic and I’m a mother, which is why I am on this show, I think. And I made a video about when I can’t talk and… at first it was on my blog and then Ariane saw it and… and she interviewed me for Huffington Post and it’s called “Non-Speaking At Times Autistic”, well the first one was, “Autistic Makes Video”… and I had been waiting for a couple of years to be able to make the video because I knew I wanted to make it but I had to have a number of things to line up. One: that I was in a state where I could not talk. Two: that I was near my computer so I could record it with the webcam. And Three: that I thought about it that sometime other than like three in the morning or when I was in my car. So, I finally made that video and a lot of people have, I think, benefited from seeing it because it shows at least one of the ways in which Autistic people have communication difficulties.

Richard: Right.

Ariane: Right. So that video was really… in many ways it… that interview with you Paula, coincided with all this stuff that was happening for us with AutCom and also with… with Pascal and Harvey, and that video was really, really powerful and a lot of people responded to it… I think, we got a lot of people saying how… how they really had found… either identified completely and said that this was their experience too or it helped them understand their kid. You got a lot of that feedback too didn’t you?

Paula: Yeah, the one, one thing that, really… That really had a lot of impact on me was like, a lot of emotional impact, was when other Autistic people said like “Yeah, this is my experience. The same thing happens with me.” And I was… when I was making the video I was sort of thinking that I was making it for parents, although, you know I wasn’t really… directing it at parents, but just to have so many responses from other Autistic people and I was hoping that yes I hope that parents see that there many of us that have this kind of communication difficulty and that maybe it can help them understand what’s going on with their children… or what might be… because I can’t, you know, say for sure what is going on in everybody else’s experience.

Richard: Right. Ibby... (Starts to say something else)

Paula: Anyway then we started… oh, go ahead.

Richard: I’m sorry I just wanted to ask Ibby a question while were dovetailing in the subject. Ibby, you are a mother also. You are Autistic and you are a teacher.

Ibby: Yes.

Richard: Correct? And, and I just…

Ibby: That is all true.

Richard: (Laughing) Okay, I’ve got the checklist. I’ve got everything right, the facts are correct but what, what, what I wanted to bring up is do you ever experience any problems with communication that effect you know, you when you’re teaching? Is… are there anything that presents difficulties that you have to deal with?

Ibby: (Laughing) Well, um, do you want a major, major difficulty or minor difficulty?

Richard: Ohh. One from column A and one from column B…

Ibby: Well, a major difficulty would probably be exciting for the, the radio audience.

Richard: Well, let’s hear that!

Ibby: (Laughing) Okay. So one day… we’re having a class on the sixth floor of… a sort of a high rise in… in North Shore, but luckily it’s people who want to be Special Ed teachers. So I’m setting the sense; and there was a giant fire alarm and that knocks out, umm, my speaking ability, executive function and everything else. I just get totally flonkered. And… like I talked to a student in the class later about that and she had some interesting feedback, but she was one of the people to help me, of course when there is a fire alarm you don’t use the elevators which was my only knowledge back then get out of the building. (Laughing) So we did leave the building I can’t really remember much about how I got out of the building and I certainly didn’t lead the class out of the building. I think judging from the bruises and stuff on my body I think I pinball machined down six flights of stairs. (Laughing)

Ariane: (Laughing)

Richard: You leaped out of the building.

Ibby: Yeah, while plugging my ears. (Laughing) So, I have a little bit of communication issues there. But what was interesting… one of the students later who also… she is a mother of a child with autism, she said that she saw right… like I experienced this too… right before I like lost it, as I put it… she saw that moment where I was like “aw, heck!” (Laughing) She saw that and so she helped me out, kind of chauffeured me out, because she saw that stuff. And she said it was a great opportunity for people to practice what to do in that situation. (Laughing)

Richard: That’s great!

Ibby: And after I got back too I said you all aced that… (paused) So, yes, that does happen. It also happens in family life and I write things down.

Ariane: So. So, Ib… when… and then after Ibby then I want Paula and Lauri to also answer this question about parenting. Which is: What has been the biggest surprise? And if that’s not a good question, did you imagine being a Mom would be the way it is actually turning out to be? Ibby start and then Paula and Lauri.

Ibby: My biggest surprise for me, is that I… I can do it, that I’m sort of good at it and stuff. I had been, I guess, down for so long with the negative imagery of not being able to do it. In my mind it was more of the things I wouldn’t be able to do. But, I think for me, I had to have the… the perfect partner. Um… you really do. And I have to just say that those boys are gonna owe me big for getting them the wonderful mother that I did. (Laughing) Boys you owe me. Listen to it on archive. (Laughing)

Ariane: Do you want to… so is that the… that was kind of an answer to both the questions about imagining as well as the biggest surprise…

Ibby: Well … I always wanted to be a parent but yeah and I was really surprised that I would ever… ever get to be because there is this idea, I don’t know if this is the thing for Paula, or everybody else too, but there is this idea that you know… you… you can’t if you don’t have terrific executive function skills and etc.

Paula: (Laughing) Yeah… that was my idea too. That’s right.

Ariane: Paula, you want to jump in and… and… So what was surprising and did you imagine this would be as it is.

Paula: Yeah, that was me that was giggling when Ibby said that about the executive function. (Laughing) Okay, I just gotta stop laughing and start talking. So… remember back at the beginning when Richard asked you what qualifies you to be a mother? And, so something similar to what Ibby said and many people would automatically think that being Autistic would disqualify anyone from being a good parent, like, there are so many stereotypes… like we’re not empathetic… I’m here to say that executive functioning problems do not stop you from being a parent, that they can make it really interesting and I think that my autism is one of the things that does qualify me to be an excellent parent… At least for the kid that I have. And sometimes I get the feeling that I am more in touch with my child than most parents are with theirs – whether their Autistic or not… Whether the parent or the child is… and people have told me that they’ve noticed what a close relationship I have with my son. But, I think one of the things that is most surprising is that when I read even regular parenting magazines or things about parenting that there are power struggles between the parent and the child and we really do not have that… I think it’s just our personalities and I’m an older parent my son was born when I was forty-two and I don’t feel like the need to prove that I’m the parent and he’s got to tow the line. I mean I could do that, ultimately I’m in charge but I find other ways to work around it and he doesn’t seem to… at least this far, because he is ten. Now, this could change, but I would not be surprised if we just did not have huge power struggles

when he is a teenager because… because of how we relate to one another. So… So… what other question did you have? Did I imagine being a parent would be the way it is? No. I couldn’t have really imagined that and it’s just really wonderful, it’s been ten years of wonderfulness. And not to say that there aren’t problems, but I feel like I have been talking too long so maybe you can ask another question.

Ariane: Okay.

Paula: And let other people talk…

Ariane: You’re not talking too much! Lauri, go ahead, what’s been the biggest surprise and did you imagine being a Mom would be the way it actually turns out to be?

Lauri: Can I reverse the order?

Ariane: Yeah!

Lauri: I really didn’t have any preconceived notions about what being a Mom would be like. I had my first child when I was 28, pretty young, and like many 28 year olds was pretty self-centered and then once I had a baby, my world changed. I would never have imagined I would have loved anything as much as being a Mom. It came very naturally to me and I would not have expected that. I really wouldn’t. It’s just been such a gift. I feel grateful every day. The girls are teenagers. We had two class (inaudible) in one week, so it is challenging (laughs) at times. We had different issues but I just feel so lucky that I get to be around them. They are all really different kids and really wonderful. I think the biggest surprise to me was that I love it so much. I would never have expected that I would want to be a stay-at-home Mom for as long as I was. I think that was very surprising to me. It was different than I would have imagined. (Whispers) And I’ve probably talked too much now.

Ariane: My next question for all of you is – is there anything that you’ve learned from your own mother that you have then gone on to apply or tried to apply to your parenting of your children? So an example is – My mother once… when I was pregnant with Nic I asked her if she had any advice for me and she said – The only thing I can think of to tell you is that if you love your children and tell them and show them that one day they’ll forgive you…

(Laughter from others)

Ariane: And that’s been the single… I mean she was sort of saying it a little glibly, but actually it was the most profound thing anyone’s ever told me about parenting and who knew that I would have to repeat that many, many times to myself? So is there anything that your mom has… either helped or something that you’ve thought- okay my mom did that and I’m NOT going to do that? Ib? Do you want to start?

Ibby: Oh I’ll actually start! It’s an interesting thing you know you got me started on the idea of writing a blog… and one of my most popular blogs was the one about the difference between tantrums and meltdowns. I think that’s the most popular one because… the cure for both tantrums and meltdowns was my mom’s secret invention of whisking you out of there. That worked for me and I just found that the “whisk out” is such a perfect thing, no matter what… the boys aren’t two yet, but the whisk out and I’ve found that… I don’t know what their little neurologies are like, but I can already see the difference between tantrums and meltdowns. I’m really, really sensitive to that and I’ve already noticed that the whisk out into quietness is a…

Richard: Ibby?

Ibby: Pardon?

Richard: What do you mean by the “whisk out”? What does that mean?

Ibby: Oh, the whisk out into quietness… so I should probably clarify that because I… (laughs) Because not everybody’s read everything I’ve read or written… that makes sense… So this is the thing… Meltdowns or tantrums are not the exact same thing… Really quickly, a meltdown is when you’re screaming and yelling because you’re panicking and a tantrum is when you screaming and yelling because you’re angry, but sometimes people mix them up. So… I wrote a blog about that on Tiny Grace Notes and I had gotten the information from my mother and it was related to myself as a child and the way… there’s more details about how you can really tell the difference… primarily between the tantrum the kid is checking out, whether you’re catching their affect… and in the panic they’re not… in the sensory overload they’re not going - Can you tell the affect in the midst of my freak out? Am I awesomely embarrassing you in the first (inaudible) door? Kids don’t bother doing that during a meltdown. But for either reason, if you take the kid out of the situation rapidly… if they’re having a tantrum then they find out that it was ineffective, so it’s a good idea and if they’re melting down because of sensory overload, then it’s also a good idea because you’re taking them out of the issue that’s ruining their… their harshing the mellow and so either way it’s a wonderful idea. I got that information straight from my mom and it’s already giving the boys a much better life.

Ariane: Ibby can you say just to everyone… I think most people know your blog, but can you just tell everyone what your blog’s name is again for those who might not know it?

Ibby: Yes, it’s called Tiny Grace Notes dot com it’s one word – tinygracenotes and I named it after the boys being tiny at the time, now they’re kind of big… they play rugby upon each other… Also it’s a pun… a music pun about grace notes…

Ariane: Right. It’s fabulous. It’s a great blog. And Paula you also have a blog, do you want to tell everyone what your blog is?

Paula: Well, I have two blogs. I am just now posting them on the chat room too, but I have the one that I work with the most currently is Autism Acceptance Day because I started Autism Acceptance Day three years ago now already and… it’s really caught on. Probably a lot of people here have heard about it and if you haven’t you will and then my other one is just a really long name because it’s got my entire name and it’s: Paula Durbin-Westby Autistic Blog… I wasn’t being super creative when I thought that up I just wanted a blog and I wanted my name in it somewhere so that’s what it is…

Ariane: You accomplished that! So Paula, is there anything that you've learned from your mom or anything that sticks out in your mind as something that you...that is related to your own mother who parented you?

Paula: Yeah, and because...I should tell people, not everybody knows, I write down all, almost everything that I'm going to say. After doing this for seven years, sometimes I stray off of my scripts, but I hadn't written that yet when you just now asked the question (laughs) so I wrote something really quickly...When I was younger, especially when I was in my twenties and my teens, my main thing was “I am not going to be like my mother!” you know, when I'm a parent. And a lot of people go through that, but now seeing her as a grandmother to my child and what she does with him and the time she spends with him and the caring she shows him, it reminds me to slow down sometimes. And also reminds me of how she was with me when I was...a child...But one of the things I do appreciate about her...anyway what she does with him reminds me to slow down at times because I work a lot trying to keep our family afloat financially, and sometimes I just don't, or I can't give him attention that I think he needs...And I've even been jealous of my mom getting to do stuff with him; just getting to relax with him and play around. And I would take him over there, and then I would go back to work...And I just start thinking I don't want to but I have to work, but I'm just trying to fit in more things. My mother is very creative, very musical, very artistic… She's got a unique way of looking at things at times and she and I are similar in those ways. And she really fosters his learning and creativity. And I think I'm more willing than she is to tackle... things that are difficult emotionally so with my son, I feel I am able to talk with him and process things that are bothering him...I can kind of sense when he's upset about things...I think I talk to him a little more than she would. But I'm kind of in a position now of really appreciating her strengths. So it's not so much something that I feel like I learned...a lesson that I learned from her as it is watching her right now being a grandmother...That’s all.

Lauri: Do I just jump in? So...Ariane? (audio difficulties) I...if we are on, I will jump into my part of what I learned from my mother. Are we on? Ibby?

Ibby: I can hear Lauri. Are we all together, just not on the radio?

Paula: This is Paula, and I can hear Lauri and Ibby. Is anybody else there?

Lauri:...I can just hear...okay, okay.

Ibby: Chat room says we're on.

Lauri: Great, then here we go. So, about my mother, I...love her so much, and she's just one of the most accepting, loving, non-judgmental, super smart, wonderful people and that I...she...wasn't really a traditional mother growing up. I guess it would be traditional now, but she is very, very driven, and worked. She's an attorney, and worked a lot. And...just...she's just been an amazing mom and I feel so lucky to have her. And I hear the way some families have dealt with disability, and that has just never been an issue in our family. It was great. She's just been an amazing mom and supportive, and I hope to be as good a mother as she is. Mom, I don't think she knows about this program, so this wasn't just a Mother's Day plug for her (laughs). But she really is awesome! And Ibby, back to your part about whisking away on the tantrum and the meltdown; I think that's such brilliant advice. And I didn't know why. I didn't know the reasoning behind that, but that's something that we have always done, just as a change in scenery. Because people tend to react differently when they're removed from a situation when they're little children, and I really like your mom's advice.

Ibby: (Laughing) Thank you.

Lauri: So maybe I'll go down and ask one of the other questions, or Ibby or Paula, would you like to?

Paula: I have all of the questions here, and I do not mind going down the list, and saying the next question that I have is: “What do you hope for your children?” And if I'm being the moderator right now, I should let you all answer first. So, Lauri, do you want to say what you want for your children?

Lauri: Yeah! That's a super easy one for me because I have an affirmation, a prayer, that I say every single day. So I will just say it in the order that I do. And it's that they live long, full lives. Happy, healthy, loving, secure, confident and full of love. And I just hope that they're happy. That's about it. Ibby?

Ibby: I like what Lauri said.

Lauri: Thank you!

Ibby: That's beautiful.

Lauri: Oh, thank you, thank you.

Paula: This is Paula, and I would say that I think about three things I'm hoping for my son. One, that he's happy. Two, that he's always safe. And three, that he gets to

do something that he really loves as a job or a career when he grows up. He's got a lot of excitement and creativity, and the thought of him being in some dead end kind of job does not make me happy. So just those three things, and depending on the day they switch in order of importance for me. Okay, am I still being the moderator?

Lauri: Yep.

Paula: (laughs) Next question is “Have you made mistakes?” and there's another one: “How do you deal with mistakes?” So maybe we should do both of those together. Do you make mistakes, and how do you deal with them?

Lauri: I've made a million mistakes. I make them every day, and I try to learn from them when I do. And if I've inadvertently hurt someone with my mistake, or hurt anyone's feelings, I apologize, and I try to learn from it. I think that's what we all do.

Ariane: Can you guys hear us?

Lauri: Now we can. Yay!

Ibby: OMG, I can't believe what Shenny just wrote.

Paula: (laughs) Does this mean I have to stop being the moderator?

Ariane: No! I thought Paula was awesome as the moderator. You guys were doing great!

Paula: Could you hear us?

Ariane: Yeah. I could hear everything.

Richard: Yeah. I have no idea what went wrong because we could heard every word everyone was saying.

Ariane: Anyway, so we've got... we've basically got ten more minutes left to...Lauri, you had talked about this last question. Ibby had you answered yet?

Ibby: Oh, about mistakes?

Ariane: Yeah. I know you're new to this.

Ibby: I'm actually lucky, I know I can answer that quickly because my babies are really, really young so I haven't had much chance yet. But I'm actually working on a repetitive mistake that I repeatedly make which is I have trouble...not laughing when they're being hilarious, and I'm supposed to be making a stern face of 'no, don't do that'.

(Laughter)

Ibby: It’s really, really hard… and I really need to practice that. I don’t understand because I have a theater degree and it’s not coming in handy… I just cannot get the motivation, the theater motivation to keep that stern face because they are funny. So if anyone has tips for how to do that, because the regular theater training is not helping…

(Laughter)

Richard: We’ve got ten minutes left or so and I wanted to ask you some questions here as well… which is that all of you are writers and all of you have blogs, except Lauri, you don’t have a blog, right?

Ariane: Lauri does. Lauri has Ollibean.

Lauri: Yes!

Richard: Oh you do as well… Okay so everybody has blogs. Could everybody say the names of their blogs again so everybody knows…

Ariane: And also write it in the chat room… I saw Paula wrote hers, the address in the chat room and Ibby, you wrote yours, I don’t know if Lauri put hers in yet…

Lauri: Of course not…

(Laughter)

Ariane: So just put yours there so everyone has access to it…

Richard: Just say the names of your blogs, Lauri?

Lauri: It’s really a website… with many blogs on it and it’s Ollibean dot com.

Richard: Ollibean dot com? How do you spell that?

Ariane: Ollibean

Lauri: http://ollibean.com

Richard: Great! And I think you’ve got TinyGraceNotes dot com. Ariane, yours is Emmashopebook dot com and you started another blog as well, right?

Ariane: Yes and it’s called WhereArtandLifeMeet dot com… I’m trying to type it in right now…

Richard: Now has anyone here written a book yet or is anyone working on a book? You’ve got all these wonderful ideas, I’m wondering if they’re going to get out there in book form?

Paula: This is Paula. I am working with some people on two book ideas now and I also write indexes for… at this point about 30 non-fiction books a year, so please everybody write non-fiction books and hire me to write the index. I’m working on book ideas and I’ll be writing more about that later.

Ariane: That’s great! Ibby did you already talk about your various book projects?

Ibby: So… I think so… Did I?

Richard: Well you guys are working on a book together, right?

Ariane: Yes! Right Ibby?

Ibby: Yes! (laughs)

Richard: You want to say what that’s about? What’s the book you’re working on together about?

Ariane: Go ahead Ib.

Ibby: Yours and mine? Is it that you didn’t say that already?

(Laughter)

Ibby: No because I would have noticed that!

Lauri: About Friendship is a Fact?

Ibby: Yeah! Friendship is a Fact! Hee Hee Hee Hee Oh! Oh, I’ve been told to quit trying to multi-task.

Ariane: (Laughs) We are writing a book together about friendship! And all…

Ibby: Yes we’re…

Ariane: And all that that means…

Ibby: Because… because friendship is very excellent and friendship is more important than… almost anything. Friendship is more important than wondering about if someone is supposed to be privileged or (unintelligible) or educated differently or anything else. Friendship is the thing that cements our community

together and if we focus on that, instead of other kinds of things then I think we can have a better world and also… we’re buddies and so the book is a buddy book because when we write together we’re hilarious so that probably what’s going to make it an awesome book.

(Laughter)

Richard: I can attest to that. I’ve read some of it so far… it’s really… well it’s not… it’s hysterically funny, but it’s also incredibly profound and very, very moving so hopefully you guys will get this thing out…

Ariane: You will laugh! you will cry!

Lauri: Ibby you know…

(Several people laughing)

Ariane: All right, so we have five minutes and I just wanted to put in a plug for one of the things that you guys have taught me about parenting, which is the number one thing, if I could tell another parent and advise them to do sooner rather than later is to presume competence and I was just wondering if any of you wanted to say a sentence or two about that concept.

Paula: Yes, I do. This is Paula. I would say for any child, but especially if you have an Autistic child or a child with another disability… as soon as you can (inaudible) that child and accept that child for exactly who they are the better it’s going to be because children notice when we don’t accept them on any level. That’s mine.Ariane: Perfect.

Lauri: I completely agree and they pick up everything just like we do. Kids are more perceptive and presume that they can do anything, presume that… and love them for exactly who they are and the rest will go more smoothly.

Ariane: Ib? Did you want to say anything?

Ibby: I just want to say thanks to everyone for listening. This is my first time doing this and it’s been really fun and I can’t believe all the awesome, supportive people! Bye!

Ariane: (Laughing) All right. Well, I’m just going to say one last thing, which is that presuming competence more than anything was what really changed our life. I can say that Emma is now starting to be taught grade level material and she continues to amaze and astound us in all her amazingness and I have you guys to thank for that. All of you are making me a much, much better parent and that’s a gift that I can never repay… So thanks to all of you and thanks for our great audience and lots of lively chat and I’m going to leave the last sentence to Richard.

Ibby: Wait! One more thing… one more thing… one more…

Lauri: Yeah! Thank you, Ariane!

Ibby: Wait. Wait… So will you post the URL of the part where Emma’s flying?

Ariane: Yes…

Ibby: Because Emma’s so awesome! She’s so awesome and if people see that I think – (said in a sing songy voice) Awesooome!!

Richard: Ibby is referring to a video… Emma’s going to trapeze school and she just had her first catch recently and it’s posted…

Ariane: It’s on Emmashopebook and I posted it actually twice. The second time, the most recent was for the http://emmashopebook.com/2013/04/30/emmas-hope-book-celebrates-1000-ausome-things-autismpositivity2013/ and the Youtube video is on that. And that was….

Ibby: Yeah, everybody check it out!

Ariane: … on emmashopebook

Richard: Yeah…

Ariane: It’s pretty… it’s pretty fabulous…

Richard: I just want to thank my wife for being on the show tonight. Fabulous mother. She’s quite the writer, ladies and gentlemen, so if you haven’t read http://emmashopebook.com yet, please do and at her new blog http://whereartandlifemeet.com and her fabulous jewelry site – https://www.arianezurcher.com – where you can see heavenly creations that she has made. And I just want to thank all of our wonderful guests – Ibby, Lauri and Paula. So nice to have you on the show and it made me feel like - Boy! We’re going to run out of time here and we could’ve probably talked for another half hour or so, but I just want to thank everyone for being such great guests!

Ariane: Thanks everyone!

Lauri: Thank you!

Paula: Thank you!

Ibby: Thank you very much!

Paula: Bye everyone!

Richard: Bye and Good Night!