stacey campbell interview - mentoring with james...

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When the Walls Come Down

Stacey Campbell Interview

(Transcript)

With Dr. James W. Goll

www.GodEncounters.com

Dr. James W. Goll: This is James Goll with God Encounters Ministries. We do these free

webinars and I’ve put a title to this one, When the Walls Come Down.

As you know, I have a lot of amazing friends around the world and I want to introduce to

you someone who I believe has led the way in many different areas in the faith. Today is

one of the international ambassadors helping lead the way for the walls to come

tumbling down again.

By the way, we’ll explain that a little bit as we get into it. Open your hearts, I just want

to welcome and I want you to receive my friend, an ecstatic prophetess, a Bible teacher,

an intercessor and a heroine of faith, this is my friend from Canada. This is Stacey

Campbell.

Stacey Campbell: Hi, James. How are you doing?

Dr. James W. Goll: Awesome.

Stacey Campbell: We’ve known each other a long, long time.

Dr. James W. Goll: A long time, yes.

Stacey Campbell: We’ve gone through a lot of things.

Dr. James W. Goll: Yes we have, yeah.

Stacey, from like a prophetic perspective, and again, we can talk from that area on a lot

of subjects, right …

Stacey Campbell: Yeah.

http://www.godencounters.com/

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Dr. James W. Goll: … because you’ve helped pull, you brought together what, the

Canadian Prophetic …

Stacey Campbell: Prophetic Council and I helped launch the National Prophetic Council

in several nations.

Dr. James W. Goll: Didn’t you start the one in Australia?

Stacey Campbell: Yeah, and the Netherlands, and I’ve gathered the prophets of Brazil. I

helped launch one in Finland and I’m going next week to help launch them in New

Zealand. I love prophecy.

Dr. James W. Goll: You’re also spreading over into the marketplace ...

Stacey Campbell: Yes, absolutely.

Dr. James W. Goll: … and into like economic summits and things like that?

Stacey Campbell: Yes, yeah.

Dr. James W. Goll: Hey, look at that. Do you have a degree in economics?

Stacey Campbell: No, I have a double major in French and German. I have a Baptist

theological degree.

Dr. James W. Goll: Isn’t that amazing, how the Lord has someone to do something that

they don’t feel they’re qualified for, and He says that’s who I’m looking for.

Stacey Campbell: That’s pretty typical, actually, of God.

Dr. James W. Goll: Is it?

Stacey Campbell: Yes.

Dr. James W. Goll: Let’s talk about this on a prophetic perspective. We’re celebrating

right now the 500th anniversary of The Great Reformation, and you, as far as I’m

concerned, are really in the heart of this in Geneva, Switzerland and different places.

What do you see happening?

Stacey Campbell: For one thing, for me it goes back a few years because several years

ago when I was in my late 30’s, and now I’m going to be 57 next week, but I was praying

and I was just so grateful to God. I was just praying by myself and I was thinking of all

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the things that God had done for me since a child. I just began weeping before the Lord

in gratitude and I said, “God, You have done so much for me. You have answered so

many of my prayers. I want to give the rest of my life to answering Yours” …

Dr. James W. Goll: Wow.

Stacey Campbell: … which led me …

Dr. James W. Goll: Wait, say it again. You need to hear this because that is wisdom

speaking. What did you say?

Stacey Campbell: I said to the Lord, I don’t know what came over me, I was weeping in

gratitude before the Lord of how much He’d done. I said, “Lord, You’ve answered so

many of my prayers, I want to give the rest of my life to answering Yours.”

That led me to John 17. I’ve spent years in John 17, Psalm 2, different places like that,

but I saw in John 17 that Jesus was praying for His disciples. As I often say, this is the

prayer of a dying man.

Dr. James W. Goll: Wow.

Stacey Campbell: This is the prayer of a man that knows He’s about to die. He’s

gathering His disciples, His loved ones around Him. At that point of death, you say the

things that matter most to you.

Dr. James W. Goll: That’s right.

Stacey Campbell: You gather your family, you gather your children, and the superficial

things, they go away. What really is your core values, they come out and you pass them

on, on your deathbed. I felt like that was the heart of what was going on inside of Jesus

as He was about to ascend again. This is what mattered to Him.

Dr. James W. Goll: What is in John 17? What is it?

Stacey Campbell: Actually there’s a lot of things in John 17 ...

Dr. James W. Goll: There is. That’s right.

Stacey Campbell: … “I pray not for these alone but for everybody who will believe in

Me through their witness.” Basically, He’s praying what He wants His Church, His

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people, to look like. It is a reflection of the core nature of God, to me, because the

earliest prayer that a young Orthodox Jewish boy learns to pray is the Sh’ma ...


Stacey Campbell: … the first prayer, at two years old, as soon as they can speak. The

Sh’ma says, “Hear, O Israel …


Stacey Campbell: … the Lord your God is One.” That is so central to who God is. He’s

basically praying for us to reflect His core nature, the essence of who He is, the triune

God, Father, Son, Holy Spirit, but they’re all together and they say if you see the

interaction of the Trinity, of Jesus on His way to the cross, “Not My will but Yours be

done,” that whole unity of purpose and heart and spirit and essence.

He prays that for us, that we would be one as He and the Father are one. Jesus is

praying to His Father and He’s saying, “This is what I want, what I really, really want.

Father, I pray that they would be one. Just as You, Father, are in Me and I am in You,

may they also be in Us so that …”

Dr. James W. Goll: … so that …

Stacey Campbell: “… so that …” That’s the critical thing, because God knows if we

actually look like Him, if we actually reflect His nature, the whole world will believe

because God is so attractive. If people actually see Him as He is, the hidden God …

Dr. James W. Goll: In John 17:21 it says, “That you may all be one, even as You, Father,

are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in us,” and there’s where you were going,

“So that the world may believe You have sent Me.” This prayer of Jesus, and then giving

your life, you know, “I’m going to sift it maybe a little to help be the answer to the

prayers of Jesus.”

Stacey Campbell: Just a small conduit ...

Dr. James W. Goll: Yeah …

Stacey Campbell: … yeah.

Dr. James W. Goll: … to help be part of the answer to the prayers of Jesus is so that the

world, this is a prophetic key to the harvest.

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Stacey Campbell: It is an essential key to the harvest. Us as charismatics, we

understand the value of signs and wonders in bringing individuals to Christ …

Dr. James W. Goll: Yes.

Stacey Campbell: … so when they see a sign or a wonder, it points to Christ, but I’m

telling you, there is something more powerful when the Body of Christ is one as the

Father and the Son are one. That kind of “One,” this is not superficial, where we’re the

same socio-economic status, we’re the same. [crosstalk 00:07:37] This is …

Dr. James W. Goll: This is what’s uniformity or conformity.

Stacey Campbell: … no, this is a substance that manifests the nature of God, and when

that substance is hid on the earth, “Behold how good and pleasant it is when brothers

dwell together in unity. I will command a blessing on that place,” or the Acts 2 when

they were in one place in one accord ...

Dr. James W. Goll: And they were together, together.

Stacey Campbell: … all together …


Stacey Campbell: … in one accord. That Greek word there, that means “Unity of

thought and mind.”


Stacey Campbell: What happens is you’re irresistible to God. He comes down, He fills …


Stacey Campbell: … and it wasn’t like that. The Church was birthed in a tiny reflection

of that …


Stacey Campbell: … and it brought 3000 in a day …

Dr. James W. Goll: That’s right …

Stacey Campbell: … to Christ.

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Dr. James W. Goll: … and speaking in languages [crosstalk 00:08:27] …

Stacey Campbell: [In power 00:08:27] …

Dr. James W. Goll: … of the nations.

Stacey Campbell: … declaring the wonderful works of God in all the other tongues.


Stacey Campbell: Yeah, explosive. It’s so powerful. If you study the Scriptures …


Stacey Campbell: If you go through it, you will be overwhelmed with that.

Dr. James W. Goll: So you’re saying, Stacey’s been used as well as others but like in her

case, in coordinating and bringing together the Canadian Prophetic Council along with

helping it get started in Australia. She and Wesley have done an amazing amount of

work in Brazil, and now part of their gaze is being turned then again towards Europe.

Would you explain just a little bit of what’s been happening the last few years in

Geneva, Switzerland?

Stacey Campbell: The beautiful thing about the Reformation, that all of us Protestants

are 500 years later walking in the unveiling, what came out of the Reformation, the

justification by faith alone, like “It’s not of works lest any man should boast. By grace

we’re saved through faith, it’s the gift of God,” that revelation is so amazing.

Through the Reformation, that was amplified, the priesthood of all believers, that we

have direct access to God. It’s so powerful, [soul of 0:09:47] Scripture, all these things.

They came out of the Reformation, but the travesty is that we don’t talk about it as

Protestants.


Stacey Campbell: The pain …

Dr. James W. Goll: The pain.

Stacey Campbell: … was the bloodshed of the Reformation, and that somehow we

uncover truth at the expense of love. The Bible says we speak that we speak the truth in

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love. The Bible says that when we disagree on doctrine, we don’t walk away, we walk

towards.

Paul and Peter disagreed on doctrine on basically justification by faith alone, by grace.

Dr. James W. Goll: This is true, [we 00:10:24] turn back to the Lord.

Stacey Campbell: Exactly. They disagreed. That was their early disagreement, but they

disagreed to the face. When you go towards to talk about doctrine, that’s when iron

sharpens iron.


Stacey Campbell: That’s when you open the Scriptures and that’s when eventually,

obviously, Paul was proven right and Peter was proven wrong, but they never separated

as brothers.

In the Reformation, we separated. We began to not only separate, we killed each other.

Dr. James W. Goll: Yes, it’s true.

Stacey Campbell: The Lutherans slaughtered the Anabaptists.


Stacey Campbell: The Anabaptists and Zwingli, like there was so much literal bloodshed

brother to brother that …

Dr. James W. Goll: From movement to movement.

Stacey Campbell: Movement to movement.

Dr. James W. Goll: One truth would come. Often it would be …

Stacey Campbell: … at the expense of the …

Dr. James W. Goll: … truth that, the group that had previously pioneered the truth

would become the persecutors of the next wave of pioneers that would restore truth,

but it was where, and truth is very important to us.

Stacey Campbell: We’ve all got truth, yeah.

Dr. James W. Goll: They’re important to Jesus.

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Stacey Campbell: “Thy Word is truth.” We exalt the truth.

Dr. James W. Goll: “And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free.”

Stacey Campbell: The truth will set you free.

Dr. James W. Goll: It’s the truth that’ll set you free. It’s not watered down and it’s not

deception ...

Stacey Campbell: No.

Dr. James W. Goll: … it’s the truth. This is very important to us, I want you to know that,

but truth with love. We must have the relational equity of the bridge of love to carry our

cargo.

Stacey Campbell: Yeah, truth and love are not mutually exclusive. What happened in

the Reformation that we don’t talk about is all this bloodshed.

Prior to the Reformation we had 1500 years of the Holy Catholic Church. We did have

the separation between the Orthodox and the Catholics and the Armenian, and that, but

they had sort of two church splits after that, not too bad. We had two or three different

denominations in 1500 years. In the 500 years since the Reformation, we have 33,000

denominations and splintered plus, splinter groups et cetera, et cetera.

Jesus is ever-living. He sits in heaven and He ever lives to make intercession for us. I

believe He’s still praying that prayer in John 17.

Dr. James W. Goll: That’s right, He is.

Stacey Campbell: What happened inside of me, and we have been taught to fear one

another so we avoid one another. We don’t know how to go towards instead of apart.

The Lord, through a series of extraordinary events, I got invited to these Catholic things,

which I was told …

Dr. James W. Goll: [I’m learning from 00:13:13] all of this, okay.

Stacey Campbell: … I was told, people would tell me, and I would invite them to prayer

meetings. I met a couple Catholic brothers and in going towards them, we would have

these discussions and I realized, “Hey, they’re using the same Bible. They believe fully in

the same Bible. They believe mostly what we believe. There’s a few things,” and when I

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dialogued with them, actually a lot of what they said made sense in a certain context so

we came closer together.

I invited them one time to this prayer meeting that we were having in Brazil. I was

telling the Brazilian leaders, I said, “Hey, this is a day of repentance. We’re all repenting

for our sins so it’s a solemn assembly. We’re gathering leaders from everywhere. How

about we invite some Catholics to repent?” The leaders looked at me and they said …

Dr. James W. Goll: “Catholics, repent?” No, excuse me.

Stacey Campbell: If you …

Dr. James W. Goll: Hold on, folks. This might actually be freaking out some of you right

now, okay? Just stay in grace and truth and love and a three-cord strand will quickly be

torn apart.

By the way, we’re talking with a prophetic person, okay?

Stacey Campbell: So they said to me, “If you invited Catholics to this meeting, you’re

going to ruin your whole ministry in Brazil.” Then I was afraid because we’re always

afraid of losing something, our credibility, our reputation, so I prayed and I said, “Jesus,

they said I’m going to lose my whole ministry in Brazil.” I clearly heard the voice of God

say to me, “Stacey, you don’t have a ministry in Brazil.” “All right, all right, I was

checking policy. I have nothing to lose,” so we did bring them to pray.

The thing was that even in my dialogue with them, when we go to official theology, part

of it I had to, I wanted to, I didn’t have to …

Dr. James W. Goll: Right.

Stacey Campbell: … I read the Catechism of the Catholic Church, what they teach in

Second Vatican Council too, and what I discovered is that in 1999 the Catholics signed a

document …

Dr. James W. Goll: The Alsbury confession.

Stacey Campbell: … with the Lutherans …


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Stacey Campbell: … that they both believe in justification by faith alone, a theological

document stamped by the Catholic church that they agree that we were right and they

were wrong.

Dr. James W. Goll: I had this actually documented in one of my books because I have

done research myself on like identificational repentance, confessing generational sins,

and so it wasn’t, it was the Augsburg, I think it was, confession where they’re bringing

together then this location in Germany.

Folks, here’s the deal. It’s not about uniformity, it’s not about conformity, it’s about the

main and the plain being the main in the plain and that Jesus Christ is the only Son our

Lord, and that the Scriptures are our final authority.

Stacey Campbell: My point is that if we don’t walk towards and open the Scriptures

together, like maybe we will lead some to Christ.

Dr. James W. Goll: Yeah.

Stacey Campbell: Maybe we will learn something.


Stacey Campbell: How are we ever going to do that without learning how to love as we

express truth, learning how to open the truth? “Thy Word is truth,” and go through it?

In a lot of these things, I feel like we’ve been taught to fear and not to love. The Bible

says, “Perfect love casts out fear.” There is no fear in love, so truth [on a bed of love

00:16:56] is not a watered-down version, it’s the highest.

We’re talking, when Jesus talked of oneness, this is what, a penultimate expression of

who He is. This is not the lowest common denominator universalism, one-world religion,

this is the core, highest pinnacle of manifestation of the nature of the Triune God. It’s

something high and lofty, not something low and watered down. We have to walk

towards to get to those places.

Dr. James W. Goll: It’s a pilgrimage …

Stacey Campbell: It’s a pilgrimage.

Dr. James W. Goll: … that you have been invited into to help be one of the bridge-

builders …

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Stacey Campbell: Right.

Dr. James W. Goll: … between historic traditions …

Stacey Campbell: Yeah.

Dr. James W. Goll: … and new expressions of the faith in this generation.

Stacey Campbell: I do it for Jesus. Every time you try to do something, you’ve got a

whole bunch of people criticizing you for this and all that, but I’m just saying, “Lord, I’m

going to answer your prayers. It’s really not about me, it’s about You. I want You, I want

Your will to be done. Not mine, but Yours.

Dr. James W. Goll: Stacey, would you take us back to that very point in the beginning

where you said something like, “I spent the first whatever period of my life …”

Stacey Campbell: Yeah, over the years.

Dr. James W. Goll: “… of God answering my prayers.”


Dr. James W. Goll: Would you take us back there and would you pray that for me so

that …

Stacey Campbell: Lord, I pray for every true believer, Lord, every wheat in Your harvest

field. Lord, I pray for all of us, that we would learn to answer Your prayers, You would

put inside of us the same desires that You have. Lord, that Your prayers would become

our prayers, we would begin to pray them with the same passion that You pray them,

that we would walk into laying down our lives for our, you know, “Greater love has no

man than this than he lays down his life for His brother,” Lord, to bring people closer to

You.

Father, we ask You for greater love, greater truth, greater passion for Jesus in Your

people, that they would think about what You’re thinking about, that they would dream

about what You’re dreaming about. That all those You have, that the Father has given

You, would be with You where You are, and Lord, we would learn to love enough to

walk towards, in Jesus’ name.

Dr. James W. Goll: Instead of in fear, away from.

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In our prophetic culture, we often are streams around the world, we often talk about

creating a culture of honor and we talk about the necessity of creating the culture of

faith versus fear. Well folks, this too is a big part of that.

Stacey Campbell: It’s true.

Dr. James W. Goll: This is honoring one another …


Dr. James W. Goll: … and receiving not only the truth but the receiving of our brother

and our sister [at least 00:20:16].

Stacey Campbell: Yes. I also want to say that a lot of times there is a, why people

become afraid is that it’s, the further out you get from the center sometimes, you have

the orthodox theology, theological positions, and then you have the aberrent practices

as you get further out.

People that don’t know their Bible very well …


Stacey Campbell: … they oftentimes end up in the tulips over here, but when you go

back to the actual theological documents, which is where we really need to go, and

bring everybody back to the Word of God …


Stacey Campbell: … and a true theology, that then, we oftentimes write off a whole

denomination …

Dr. James W. Goll: Right.

Stacey Campbell: … because we see an aberrant practice over here instead of going

back to, “Okay, what’s the official documents,” and then, “Let’s dialogue on the official

documents.” There’s a practice over here, there’s a practice over there. There’s some

weird things going on even in the charismatic movement. [crosstalk 00:21:15]

Dr. James W. Goll: [crosstalk 00:21:15] Even where [crosstalk 00:21:16]. Oh, Jesus.

That’s right. Yes, I know.

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Stacey Campbell: We have to say, “Okay, when you do that, show me that in the Bible.”

We have to be able to defend and to give an answer for the hope that lies within us.

People say, “Oh well, you shake and prophesy.” I’ll say, “Well, look in the Bible. Let’s go

back to the Word of God. What is happening in the Bible when prophets are receiving

revelation?” I wrote a whole book on that, Ecstatic Prophecy. You can read it.

Dr. James W. Goll: Yeah, it’s a great book.

Stacey Campbell: It’s very theological, but I’m trying to get people back to the Word of

God instead of fearful on the outside extraneous things. We write off whole groups of

people …

Dr. James W. Goll: Yes we do.

Stacey Campbell: … without ever talking to them. Then this filters into our evangelistic

practices so that we won’t walk across the street to a prostitute, like Jesus did, because

we separate from amongst them, or to a homosexual. How are we ever going to win

these people? Most people think Christians don’t like them.

I’ve prayed for Satanists that don’t believe Christians like them. They say, “Oh, I thought

Christians hated us because every time I meet a Christian, they basically curse me and

tell me all these things, but they never reach out to speak the truth in love.” We’ve

forgotten love. We have truth, we keep truth.

Dr. James W. Goll: I have a [little word I use 00:22:36] I call “Let’s flip it,” okay? Just in

like closing right now, I agree with Stacey, which is we are in agreement together with

the prayers of Jesus that the walls have come up, but the walls that have been

constructed by man are subject to come down. We declare that as we go from the 500th

year of a great reformation, we will also go into a new era where love is our aim,

I Corinthians 14:1, where love is our aim, and yet earnestly desiring the spiritual gifts

where walls come down and bridges get built.

Stacey Campbell: Right. Not either/or, it’s both …

Dr. James W. Goll: It’s both/and.

Stacey Campbell: … and more.

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Dr. James W. Goll: Thank you. This is Stacey Campbell and this is James Goll. It’s been a

delight to share with you today that we are entered into a new period where the

prayers of Jesus will be answered.

stacey campbell interview - mentoring with james...

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