province of newfoundland fortieth general...
TRANSCRIPT
Volume XL
Monday
Province of Newfoundland
FORTIETH GENERAL ASSEMBLY OF
NEWFOUNDLAND
Fourth Session
VERBATIM REPORT {Hansard)
Speaker: Honourable P.]. McNicholas
Number 67
4 jwy 1988
The House met at 2:00 p.m .
MR. SPEAKER (McNicholas): Order, please!
Statements by Ministers
PREMIER PECKFORD : Mr . Speaker.
MR. SPFAK[R: The han. the Pr~::~mier .
SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear. heai~!
PREMIER PECKFORD : Mr . Speaker, the hon . member s of
the Opposition continue to do government a favor by bringing up the topics of the Prov i nc e's une mployment rat e and the topic of economic performance in speeches, comments t o the media and mo st r ece ntly , on Private Members Day last we e k . It is a favor because it prov i des us with ano t he r opport unity to outline the t remendous gains, on all f ron ts , that are being made in Newfoundland and Labrador.
SOMf HON . MEMBERS: Hear, h~~ar!
PREMIER PECK FORD : Tl: Jnll st., und e r standabl y, be demoralizing for t he Opposition ,....,hen t he y have a neiAJ, h.i.gh- -prJc ed Lea der, that the y see the polici es of l:he gove rnmen t successfull y pulling the Pro vince f r om the recessi.on of l: he eal~l y f:o m·Ld 1980's and leading us to unprecendenled economic achievements. I appJ.aud thE!m for their pluck and tenacity . Their efforts to misconstrue and obfuscate the gains being made, however, border on the irresponsible and demonstrate new
L3827 July 4, 1988 VoJ. XL
highs in negativity in the face of progress .
Take, for exampJ e, their rE·peated reference to labour market
statistics included in the "Labour· 8ul1e l.:in" campi led by thE! Departmen t of Labour for the fir st quarter of 198 8 . Thi s bull eti n is intended to prov ide both business a nd l abou r wlth collective bargain i ng info rma tion and r.ln nou nc::l! ments of n'i!w a.ct :lvities and programs in that department. Tt is nol intended as an indicator of economic activity in the Province, as Lhe Oppos LLLon so misleadingly have used it.
Yet, even if IJ.Je look at the
stati.st.lcs included in t:he
bull et in, the deception t he Opposit io n are undertaking is clear . The wo nderfu lJ.y damag i ng figure used repeatedly is that the unemployment rate ros e betwe en January and Mar ch of 1988 from 19.6 to 21 . 9 percent. Wha t is also includ ed i n the bulletin , but which is conveni ently i gnored by t he Oppos itio n, is that emplo yment rose by 4-,000 or 2 . 3 percent from January to March.
SOME HON. MEMBERS : 11~::1a.r, hc,, ar!
PREMIER PECKFORD : rhe rea s on Lhe unemployrnc"•n !:. rate increased was that an even greater nurnbo.1~ of IAJorkE!Y'S, 12,000, jo·ined the labour for'CE! to search for a job.
Demons tr·a t i. ng how ou L of touch they arE! with · thE! reality of e~rtploym<:!nt :in th(:1 Pr·ovince, the~
Opposition seem unaware - as every NewfoundJ.ander knows - that the Spring is u.Jhen fj_shermE!n and plant workers, loggers, construction
workers, service workers in the tour:ism industry, all r'E! .. -enter· the
No. 67 R3827
workforce. Our economy is largely seasonal, and it demonstrates little to compare one month to the next in the same year.
A morE:~ reveal "i.ng and relevant basis. Mr·. Speaker. for comparison i.s to compare the same month From one year to the next, when the same seasonal characteristics are at work. When we compare March, 1987 to Mar·ch, 1988, we see that the labour force rose by 11,000 or 4.1 percent, employment rose by 12,000 or 7.3 percent and the unemployment rate fell by 2. 5 percentage points, from 24.4 percent in March, 1987 to 21.9 per·cent in March, 1988. The seasonally adjusted unemployment rate was, of course, much lower.
during the first five this year the seasonally Lln(:~tnployrnent~ rate IAldS
In fact, n1onths of adjusi:ed 17. 6 p<:!r for th:i.s
cent, th1E! lowest recorded per:i.od s:i.nce 1983.
SOME HON. MEMAERS : II ear, hE:~ar!
PREMIER PECKFORD : Thj s was on the strength of employment levels in the First five months of 1988 that were the highest ever recorded in the Province. Seasonally adjusted elllployment u.ms 194,000 and unadjusted employment approximatE!d 180,400 on a monthly average basis.
The decline in the unemployment rate is even more significant, Mr. SpeakE!r, in light of the fact that the labour force (adjusted and unadjusted) has increased to the highest levels ever recorded in Newfoundland and Labrador. As more people enter the labour force , tAli i: h o p t ~i. mi s m based on the strength of the increased economic activity generated over the last two yeai"S, the Province 1 s
L3828 July 'l· , L98a Uo l XI .
p i:'l i" i.: i. ci. p r.d: i. on r a i.: e r (~a c 11 e d i l: s highest level ever in 1987 - 53. 1
·pei" r:f~nt. Mor(:' pE!Ople c~re entering the workforce than ever befor·o and rnorc,~ people are be"i.ng employed than every before.
To argue t·~hat thE! unE!mploymeni: rate is falling because of out-migration, as the hon. the Leader of the Opposi U.on has beNl tryi.ng to do, ts, tn light of these figures, completely unjustified. In fact, compared with thE! 11 Halcyon Days 11 of U.beraJ. government in this Province, net migration has decreased by half.
SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear!
PREMIER PECKFORD : F1nom 1.96l to 1966, m~t rni.grat'.ion totalled cloSE! to 24,000 and from 1966 to l9'7l - ~ d11ring which U .me thE! hon. the Leader of the Opposition was a member of the Smallwood Cabinet - it j umpE!d clasP. to 29,000, Mr. Spee~kE!r.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
PREMIER PECKFORD : In the economic boorn and outburst of optimism i:.hat came :in the wake of the Liberal goVE!rnrnE!nt 1 s fa].] . . n e t mig rat. ion d r o p p e d to l <~ s s than 1000 from 1971 to 1976; and from 1976 to 1981 .it went back up to close to 20,000 and from 1981 to 1986 - under the current administration - it dropped to under 15,000.
SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear!
PREMIER Pf.CKFORD : T.f we t~..dsh to locaLe l~. h(~ sour'CE! of the Province 1s sluggish populatton growLh, thai. Lhe Leadl=H' of· the Opposition talks about, an
No . () 7 1nan
increase of less than a 1000 from
1981 to 1986, it is mor·e useful to
study our declining birthrate.
While net migration was some
10,000 more from 1961 to 1966
compared to 1981 to 1986, the
birthrate was 55 per cent lower in
1986 than it 1.1.Jas in 1966. Our net
migration was lower, but our
birthrate was lower. From 1961 to
1966, there were over 75,000
births i.n the ProtJince; from 1981
to 1986 there were 44,000, from
75,000 dotAJ11 to IJ.4,000. Thero i !;
your reason for a stagnating
populati.on, Mr. Speaker, l: h0 s.';tme
as for industrialized nati ons
throughout the Western t.~.Jorl.d.
The Newfoundland and Labrador
economy still suffe rs from an
unemployment rate that i.s
unacceptably high. Everybody in
the Provi.nce agrees t.oith that. We
have nevertheless made tremendous
gains from the disastrous rates
reached during the recession. In
1987, more people:~ had jobs than at
any time in the Province 1 s
history. More people had jobs in
1987 than at any time in the
Province 1 s history.
SOME HON . MEMBERS : Hear, hE!ar!
PRfMIER PFCKFORD: It is sti_ll not good enough, but
it still indicates something. We
are rna k "i. ng u npr~~ cend{:~ n LGd s tridP!>
on all fronts and we have good
reason Lo expect i·.hi.s progr'E!SS to
continue.
For those who might be confused by
t he tni.sguid0d ravi.ngs of the
Opposition, Mr . Speaker, do not
just rely on my statements.
Verify them yourselves, as I say
to t he medi.a, wi t h Statistics
Canada, the Economic Council of
Canada, the Investment Dealers Association of Canada, the
L3829 July 4-, 19!38 Vol XL
Newfoundland and Labrador Econorn:lc
Council. Better still, ask those
invoJ.ved in our toud.srn industry,
:in our tr·ansportat:i.on industry, in
our construction industry, in our
Forestry, mining and the fishery.
Th"i.s Province is undergoing an
economic revival, Mth. Speaker, the
strengths of which can pr:H'haps
most accurately bE! mE:'asured by the
shr·~i.l.J.nc,~ss of the Oppos.iL i.on.
Thank you.
SOM E liON . MEMB ERS: Hear, hear!
MR. WELLS : Mih . Sp~'akc.;!r.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of l~he
Oppos i. t.:ion .
SOME HON . MEMBERS : Hear, hear!
' MR. WELLS: Mr. Speaker, t)Je have just
witnessed a classic manifestation
of a government on the run.
MR. TULK : Rtght on .
SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear. ~war!
MR. Wf::LI_S ; They have got to stand in the
i·lot~se and subs-1:-i.L:ute announcC'!fTll'~nts
and ministerial statements on
govet'rllnenl: policy and For t:hat
they have got to substitute
criti.cism of the Opposition.
SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear!
MR. WELLS: And Lhey have got to put resolutions that criticize
No. 67
down thE!
R3H29
Oppos:i tion, a dc::~speratol.~ on lhf:~ the:iln hE!E:~ls.
government i~ un, l:i'1king l:o
SOMf HON. ME"MHERS: Hear, hear .
MR. WELLS: Mr. Speaker, the Premier can take these figures and try and twist them into anything he wants to, but what he cannot do is avoid the bottom line. Let him make these statements to the 18,000 people who have been driven out of this Province i.n the last three year·s to earn a living.
SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear!
MR. WELLS: Tell that to those people' Tell it to the 5,600 people by which our population is decreased, actually decreased, never before since Confederation has our poplJl.al:ton ctecrea~;od 'i.n an~ yectr over year. We are now in the Four·th s l·:ra.ight year i.n a Y'OI~I or reduction of popu l ation, tell that to those people, Mr . Speaker.
Tell i.t t:o the ad<HI: .i.onal. 20,000 people on unemployment rolls, in re c ei.pi: of u nc::~rnp l.o yme ni: i. n s u ran c e, tell it to those people. Tell it to the 30,000 people who have been added to our list ·of those living be lotAI the pov e:~rty l.i ne. Te l.l it to those people and see if they believe you.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. WELlS: See if they believe that nonsense!
Now, le t us take a look at the 1 Hal.cyon Days 1 of the last Libe:~ral administration to which the Premier rE=!fE!r'S. L<,~ L I.IS take a
1 .. 3 8 30 July 4, 1988 Vol XL
look at those 1 Halcyon Days 1 when UH~ unelflpl.oyrnl'::'nt rate IJJas a 1ittle over 6 per cent, 2.3 per cent h -i. g her· 1:. h a n Uw nat tonal a v E! rage . Today, Mr. Speaker, it is 11. percentag e:! po ·i.n ·l:.s higher than l:: hE• national average!
SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear!
MR. WELLS: Now let us take a J.ook at thoSE! 1 Halcyon Days. 1 Our· population was increasing, steadiJ.y increasing . The n urn be r tJJo r k t n g were increasing. The number out of jobs tJJas much lower. The whole truth is th(~re .
Look at IAlil.l see Speaker.
the bottom linE!S and the whole truth,
SOME HON . MEMBERS: Hear, h~:!ar·!
MR. ~ELLS :
you Mr.
That is what produced the jobs, Mr. Spe~ker.
SOMF.: liON . MF.MBERS : Oh, oh!
MR. WELLS: Mr . Speaker, ther·e ar·l'::~ tens of thousands of people in this Prov '"i. nce today tJJho are crying for a return to those days and they are going to get it after the next election!
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hE!ar!
MR. WELLS: Maybe t.he members oppos:Lt: ~". do not likE! it but, Mr. Speaker, :it is a cl.(,~ar measure of t:he policy bankruptcy of this govE!rnmE:~nt that they can br·i.ng noi:h i.ng mor·e befor·e this LegislaturE! than a politicaJ. criticism of i:he Opposition!
No . 67 R3830
Mr. Speaker, :l t is time tAJe go~~- ri.d
of the government and let us take
th e first poss"ibJ.r:' oppor-tunity to
do so.
SOM E HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR . FENWICK : Mr . Speak!i:1r.
MR . SPEAKER: The han. the member for Menihek .
MR. fENWICK: Thank you, Mt". Speaker .
Mr'. Spec~ker', the problems about
migration and unemployment are not
new. These pr·oblems have been
w:i.'t h us s :i. n c e a bou t 1 8 3 0, qui. I; e
fr a nk ] y, a nd ex ce p t for I t hin k
the Fi rs ·t and Second Wo r ld Wa r !> ,
we ne ve r ha d a pe r i od of full
empl o yment or a pe r i od of an y time
wh e n we hav e no t had r e l i e f or
social assistance in significant
numbers .
Listening to the Premier and the
Leader of the Opposition looking
at the same figures, allegedly,
and trying to s ay that one
indicates a great economy and the
other indicates a terrible
economy, re!minds me of people in a
roller coaster who are going up
and dou.m on a roller coaste!r in
whi c h one is s ayi.ng, look, how -
PREMIER PECKFORD : On a point of order, Mr. Speaker .
MR . SPE11KF.R: Otnder, please!
(l po-int of ordE!r, thP. hon . l:hP.
PtnE~miE~r .
PRFMIFR PECKFORD: rJJ r . s p e a k E1 r , i . f 1:: h e Men i he I< ( M 1n . Fe nwi c k ) bE! accurate, go-Lng
L3 8 31 July 4, 1988
tnE1mber for is going to to givE~ a
VoJ XL
reasoned respons e t o the
statement, Mr . Speaker, welJ. thE!I"I,
hr:1 should quotr:~ me correctly . I
did not say, we had a gr·eat
economy in Newfoundland, as the
member is trying to indicate I
said.
MR. SPEAKER : To that point of order , there is
no point of order.
The han. the member for Menihel< .
MR . FFNWJCl<: Mr . Speaker, in th a t case, we
1 j us t hea r-d t hE! stand cor-r-ect<~H~ .
Premier of the do no 1-. h r.w e a this Province.'
ProvinCE! say, 'we ·· gr eat economy i n If that :i.s t..u hat
he lAiani ::> t:o say, fine.
wfdl, l: hat is
The point I was trying to mak e ,
Mr. Spe<:tk(~ r, .i.s Hl"i.s: The E:'Conomy
that we have now is a
resource -based E'COI'lOIItiJ in tAJhi c h
the price of fish, the price of
iron ore and the pri c e of paper
and thE! demand for those~ products
pr·et.ty t..r..Jel1 deter-rn:ine t..r..Jhat t..r..Je
get .
Last year we had the price of fi s h
almost doubJ.e. We had the
newsprint industry going fuJ.l out
for a full tt,r..Jelve month s and the
same thi ng wi th the iron or e
industr y . Und e r t hos e
c i rcums ta nces . Mr . Speaker , we ar e
ai: the l:op o f lAJh at:e v e r' c ycl e IAJe
c a n e xpect, but that cy c le s til1
ha s 17 .5 pe r ce n t ct s the r ea l
unempJ.oyrnen t: ratE! .
The problem, Mr . Speaker' , is not
tha+·. t..r..Je shouJ.d bl.a.me (~ i'l c h other
that we are doing such a great job
in terms of Lhe fis cal and
monetary levers in ord e r to
s !: i.rnul.ate our' E:~conorny, UH'~ probl. E! m
is WE:' should lo o k at our' economy
and say it is s tru c tured in such a
No . 67 R383 1
IAJa y t. hat t•Jh en Central Canada,
somE!body snHezes i.n we get pneumonia.
The fact of the matter is, when thc~~Y stop building car·s, people in my dis l·: r i.e 'I: stop tni.n:i.ng ir·on ore . Whc.:.n peep] e in t.he United States s 1: o p eating f :i. s h .:t 1·. Fa s 1-. food out] ets, IAJE~ stop catching and stop mar·keU.ng fish, and IAJhen there i . s a recession in the United States i.n t.uhi.ch less papE:~r -i.s consutTIE!d, then our paper mills also go down.
The problem with our economy is it is badly structured to weather the vicissitudes of international circumstances and what we neE!d is to change the shape of our economy.
This government. has done all it could to try and s tirnulate it and we have gotten nowhere with it. This Opposition on the other side would do virl:ually the sarne t.hing because it has already said that :it is go -i.ny to continue on t.uith the kinds of policies which will increase the advantages of businesses and so on.
Mr. Speaker, until we can r e p a t-. r i. a h:~ o u r (:~ c o nom y , 1 ~ n L .i. l t~IC,~ can get control of it ourselves, unti.l 1.ue can dir·ec L ~he IJ.Jay i 1: i. s on a broad base.:., we are never going to geL away from this roller coasb~r E~conomy we have now. Whether the Premier says things arE:! getting better·, or· thE! Leader of the Oppos:i.tion (Mr. Well.s) says thE!Y are getting worsE', the fact of the mal".:tE!r' is, neither of them have any particularly grE!at answer to diversifying and broadEHdng the economy.
MR. SIMMS: Mr. Speaker .
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the President of the
L3B3 2 J u 1 y tJ. , 1. 9 a a lJol XI_
Council .
MR. SIMMS: Mr·. Speclker', T. hettH:' a V(~r·y br· .. i.ef statement to make. I wish to for·mall.y adtJiSE! the House ·1-.hEtt negotiations respecting a collective agreement between the Newfoundland and Labrador Nurses un·i.on and Tr·eaSIIry Soard c:tnd the Newfoundland Hospital and Nursing Horne Associc:tti.on IAH"r(:' sucu:!ssfuJ.l.y concluded over the weekend -
SOME HON . MEMBERS; Hear, hear!
MR. SIMMS: - on Friday, to be specific. I am therefore very pleased to announce that we have reached a tentative agreement.
The agref:~tnent reflects the I:H•st possible settlement of all the issuE!S and I t.uanL t.o compliment all the partiE!S to thE• negotiations For their determined efforts .
The details of thE! agrE!ernent, as rrterrtbF.!Y'S IAJOitJ.d UI'H:I<"!rSi.:t:'l!'ld, of course, Mr. SpeakE!r, cannot be r e l r,) a :; E! d u n L: ·i. l 1·. h E! rn "'~ rn b <,~ r' s hi p of the union have been properly b r· i. e f e d . T h e u rd. o n (,~ x E! c u t i v E! tAd. 1 1. be recommending acceptancE• of l::he agrE:'etnent i:o its rrtf:Hnbers and we will be holding meetings over thE! next Few days to prepare for a ratification vote.
SOME HON . MEMBERS: Hear, hE~ar!
MR. TU l. K: Mr. Speaker .
MR. SPEAKER: ThE! hon--:--fhe member for Fogo .
MR. TUI K: Mr. Speaker, sincE! it IAJas only a
No . () 7 R3832
very brief statement. I suppose
H1e mi.ni.s l:E!r di.d not fE:~el
obligated to give anybody a copy
of :i 1-:. • B u t I do want to s a y t h a 1:
we on this side arE! happy to seE!
the negot.i.ations have concluded
successfully with the nurses and
we are happy to see that those
people are perhaps somewhat
happier in their· jobs, although I
suspect some:~ of them arE! probably
going to be laid off this year due
to shortages in thE! hospitals and
so on t.~.d.J.l not be happy t.1.1i.th many
of their working conditions.
PREMIER PECKFORD: (Inaudible) close her down .
MR. TUI .. K: What is wrong with today. Mr . Speaker? be 1.1p abo11-l:. somE!thi.ng .
the Premier He seems to
Mr. Spe<'lke:~r. 1 suspec l thal: irlHny
of them are fairly unhappy about
l h t~d. r· wo r· k ·L n g. con d i. t i. on s , b u 1: t hi. s
is probably the best that they
could get ..
Ne ver t he less. Mr . Sp ea ke r, tAle are
happy to see t hat under the
present Pre si d ent of Treasury
Board, in hi s attempt to get the
labour peo ple back o n the
government side for the next
election, tha t he i s moving al on g
very smoothly .
But we can assure him those people
will be reminded. and we will keep
r·em:i.nding them, 1.-lnd 1.1.Je tAJill walch
the details of any agrE:~emE!nts to
s E! e t h a t. , i. n fa c t , t. h r,~ y d o ~; er· \J e:~
the labour people :in this Province.
SOMF.: liON. MEMB~~f~S :
Hea1n, hE!aln!
MR. FENWICK: Mr . Speclker' .
MR . SPf': AKE:I~ :
1.3833 July 4-, 1988 Vol XL.
The hon. the member for Menihek.
MR. FENWICK: Mr. Spe:~aker, the~~ fac 1·. t.ue h <:'\ VE!
concluded a settlE:~mE!nt, or at
least we have concluded a
tentative agreement with the
nurses' union indicates, I think,
the absolute urgency for the
Minister of Labour to bring in the
recommendations of the committee
looking at the Publ.oi.c ServiCE!
Collective Bargaining Act undE!r
which these negotiations were
conducted.
T.l -Ls Fortunah' L~o.Je got a
satisfac t ory agre ement without any
ki.nd of job acti.on be i. ng required
becau se, a s the President of
Tr·ec1:> 11 r y floar·d •::tnd i: he Mini.s te r of
Labour know , wi t h the Bill S9
amend ment :; :J.n place , IAJe are i.n a
posi ti on where our collective
bi3r \_3 i'l ·Ln ·i.ng l. egi.s l. ati.on in the
public sector is, qu ite frankly,
unwork a bl e by Lhe Premier ' s own
words .
On that basis I hope thE:' Min~istE!r
o-f Labour t.~.rill bring in those
changes as quickly as possible so
we can get things back to a normal
relationship between the employer
and the public service unions.
Oral Questions
MR. W. CARTER : Mr'. Spc~1akc->.r.
.~IL___2f E fl..iS .. ~.R : The hon . Tt,Ji. J. J. : i. n y .:, h:' .
MR . W. CARTER : r"' t' . S p e i'\ k E! t' , normally go l: :i si'H:~r,·i.e~; (Mr . not herE! and
the member For'
In)/ qUC:' ~; l:. -.i on l~IOUJ.d
to the Minister of R"i.deottt), bu 1: ho ·i s I do no t know if
Hw r <=' ·i. !; c:u1 .::~ c-U. n g trl"i. n t s l.t~! r· , s o
No. 67 R3833
mayl·H:! l:he Pr·om-ier hi.mself could take this question. I am sur·pr-Ls€:~d t.hc-:~ mini.s t(:~r 'i.s not. hE!Y'(,~ in light of the crisis that we have today i.n the $70 million caplin industry in the Province. M r· . S p o a k to' r , my q 1.1 €:~ ~> '1: -·i. o n "i. s 1·.: o t h e Premier then. On Thursday the rni.n·t!d.:E!r, :i.n r·t~ply to rny qtiC:'St i.on about the caplin fisher·y and the po~;si.bil.i.i·.y of a rwt~J f-i.shC:H'Y to accommodate additional markets that.: app(:~iH' irnmi.nent, the rrd.ni.s tE!r stated that the caplin fishery would bE! closr:1d ~t the 32, SOO metric ton catch level. In other tA.Jords once tA.J(,~ att.cli.ned l~hat lr:~vel. of catch to accommodate the Japanest~ markE!t, ti'H:Hl the fishC:H'Y would be closed but it would be reopened, and I belieVE! he said almost immediately, certainly 1..1Jithin hours, to accommodate a market that was available in Taiwan and Japan.
PREMIER. PECKFORD: A point of order, Mr. Speaker .
MR. SPEAKER: The hon . the Premier .
PREMIFR PFCKFORD: Are we in Question Period, Mr. Sp(:'akr:~r? If we arr:~, I think it would bE! 'Jr~.~y dppr·opr·i.'lt8 For· i·. he han. membeJ" fo1·· TtA.Jillingate to pose a qt.S<-?.st'i.on . ll:le tAJOttl.d like to bt1 int.E:'J"r·ogat~~d but IA.J(,~ cannot be iF questions are not asked.
MR. SPEAKFR : That point is well taken .
MR. W. CARTER: Mr. Speaker, my question concerns -
MR. SPI:AKER: Order·, pleas(,~ 1
fhe hon. me:~mber· i.s C(:1rtainl.y entitled to a preamble but he was beginning to make a speech.
1.3834- July 4, 1988 Vol XL
The han. !:.he rnE:!JrJbE!r for· Twillingate .
MR. W. CARTER ; My q1.1es t:i.on conCE!r'n~; ~ $70 1rd.ll.i.on industry that affects a lot of people. My question to the Premier : In light of Lhe rn:i. n ·i. s 1: 1:! r· ' !> .:~ n no 11 n c e 111~~ n -1: on Thursday that there would be a new caplln fishery, now lhat the Japanese quota has been caught, Uln Ul<'~ Pt' E!ln :i. e:'r tell. i:hE! Hou s e when we can expect an announcement t·: o i: hat e f f e c 1·.?
MR. SPEAKER : The han . the Premier .
PREMIER PECKFORD: Shortly, Mr. Speaker.
MR. W. CARTER: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER : A supplementary .
MR. W. CARTER: Mr. Speab:~r, I r'(:Hn"i.nd HH:! Prem'.i.er· that the minister made the same s'l:clti'::Hfl('!n1: on Thur·sdr.\y. My supplementary question to the Pr·E:~mJer·: In l.ighL of l·: hl~ fi."'ct th<:-\t the Japanese quota has now been ouerf·ished by approximately 4000 tons, and in view of the fact that the J~panese haue now wi red the Fish Trades Association in 1\let)Jfottndland l:. hr'E!ai:.en ·i.ng to
MR. SPEAKER : Ordt~r, pl(,'i'lS(:1!
Would the han. member p1 e ase posE· thE! q u e s t :i. o n ?
MR. W. CARTER: My question to light of the
the Premier: Fact that
Japanese quota has overfished, the amount agreed has been surpassed and they
In the
been upon are
No. 67 R3834
no1JJ as!dng i·.o h;:we l:he ptn.i.ce
r·enegotiated, can the Premier tell
the House whRI~ Jrteaslii"I:'S will. be
taken by his governmE:~nt to ensure
thai: the Jdpi:'lnesE:~ do not. rc~~nE!9(;~ on
the price agr·eE!d to because of
this overrun, to protect the
Newfoundland caplin fishery?
MR . SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.
PREMIER PECKFORD: Everything possible, Mr. Speaker .
MR . W. CARTER: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker .
MR. SPEAKER: A final supplementary.
MR . W. CARTf.R : Min. SpE:~aker. I am afraid the
an SIAIE! r· b 1J 1-. hE! P r' (~'tni ~~ r· IAJ·i.J.l not: be,~
satisfactory to the hundreds of
1\Jeto~.Jf ou nd l..:'lnd fish e r'HH:~ n IAJho i'H' e
au.Jcl:i.ting a decision.
SOME NON. MEMBERS :
H~~i:H'. h~::~ar!
MR. W. CAlHER :
Mr. Speaker. my final
supplementary to the Premier: In view of the fact that many
hundreds of N('!Wfoundlt'lnd fisher·rn(-;!11
are waiting for word from the
department -
MR. SPEAKER : Order, pleaS('!!
Would the hon. member pleaSE! pose
his final supplementary?
MR. W. CARTER: Mr. Speaker, thi.s T:; a tJrd'Y
in1port.ant matter and I tJJould hope
t.hi:'lt th(~~ HolJ!>e tAli 11 bE:~c?lr' IJJJi.:h Hie.
Mr. SpeakE!In, to~.J011l.d
und~::~r·takE:~. thE!n, to rn i. n i. s L e r· • IAJ h (:~ r· t:~ tJ (~ r· h e
I 3B3S July 4, 1988
1:h(,~ PrernJ.er instruct his
:i. !; • l:.o i:.•'l k E!
Vol XL
whatever steps are necessary to
ensure that the caplin fishery
tAr-L l. l. r· I::! o fH:Hl a ~' prom i s E:~ d ;:~ n d i:. h a t
Newfoundland fishermen will be
able to gel back at the caplin
Fishery?
PREMIER PECKFORD: Mr. Speaker .
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier .
PREMIER PECKFORD : Mr. Speaker, as I have said, I
will do everything possible.
MR . FUREY : Mr. Spl':~ak(-'!r.
MR . SPEAKER: rhe hon . Uw rnernber for· St . Bar· be .
MR. FUR[Y : Mr. Speaker·. my question is to thE'
PrE:!tnJer· i;l!> IAJe"IJ .. U:1st ynar the
Prnemit:~r gave a commj. tment to the
H o u s r:~ I).J h e n h f~ p r· c.Hn ·i. s E'! d t o t a b l e
q uar·terly reports wi ·t h respect Lo
the $ll.O,OOO a yee1r salary pi'ti.d to
Mr. PE:~ter Lougheed. Would thE~
Prl':~l(ti.er· tel.J. 11s t.~Jhy he has not
tabled thE!Se quartE!rly reports?
Wi.J.l. the Premier· und(:H'take t:o do
that now?
PREMIER PECKFORD : Mr. Speaker .
MR. SPEAKER: The hon . th-e PrerniE!r .
PREMIER PECKFORD : We will do it soon, Mr . Speaker.
MR. FUREY: Mr . SpE:'i.-lkE!Y'.
~1R . ~3PFAKFR:
A supplE:~mE:~ntar·y, thE:' hon. the
rfl(o'tnbt:~ln For· ~H. . Bar·bp .
Mf~ . FUf~EY:
No. 67 R3835
Mr. SpE:~aker, UH~ la1..u f·irm of Mr. Lougheed received well over $400,000 fr·om the 1986-198'7 budget last year. Mr. Speaker, I ask the Pr·emiE:!r was nny mor·e rnonE:~Y pn-Ld under this year's budget to B c~Hm E:~ t. 1: J o 1'10 !> , thE:~ 1 aw f .i r·m ,....., ~li. c h Mr. Lougheed is a partner· in? If so, hot..u much t.uCl.:> pdi.d out of Lhis year's budget? Was it anywhere near the $400,000 paid last year?
MR. SPEAKF.R: ThE! hort . the Pt"mrtiE:H' .
PRfMJfR PECKFORD: [do not knot1.J, Mr·. Spe,'lkr:~r. T 1..uill find out .
MR . FUREY : A final supplementary, Mr. Speaker.
The hon . l:hE:~ tnE:~rnber for Port.: de Grave.
MR. EFFORD: Mr. SpeakE:~t", my qu(,~st:Jon is to thE! MinistE!r of Health (Dr . Collins), e~nd it is a follow-up, Mr. Speaker, of the question I had C~sked him seuersl weeks ago concerning the deplorable sH: ual~i.on ,;d: Lhe rJ!:i.l.l er Cenl·:r-e. I ask thE! Minister of Health, g:ivEHl t h e r "' c I~ 1". h "' 1.: h 1:.~ d i. d 11 n cl e r t "~ I< e t o have h:is officials invesU.gat.(~' thl;• (; :i. Lt. I"' i: i on cl ctAJI1 the r· e , co u l. d he tell the House if that was done <'lnd tAJhdl: iF any reporl.: tJJa:; br·ought back to him concerning the dE:~plordblE:~ :;i. tuat::ion, the uncleanliness of the Miller Centre?
MR. SPEAKER : MR. SPEAKER : The hon. the M.intst.E:H' of HE:~alth . A final supplementary .
MR. FUREY: I ask the Prem1er is there any systetn tn pl.ace t.o show full accountability, to fully account for expendittJrE! of this public money in salary to Mr. Lougheed and in legal services expE!nSE!S to Mr. Lougheed's latAJ fir·m for the ldst two years? Is there any system in place so that the people CC\rl s e e h 01.u y o t.t <H' e=~ p u b l i . c J. y spending their money so as to j ttdge IAJhethE!r or no+: thHy f:"lr'e getti11g th~~ proper value for Hte expendi.l··. t.tr'f:' of thr;1.l:: rnonf:~y. Mr·. SpE!d I< etn?
MR . SPFAKfR: The-~ hon. thE:~ PrE!tni.E!r .
PREMIER PECKFORO : Mr. Speaker, -- unlj ke the hon . rnE!ltlber' s l,e,'\dE!r, the-?. <.HlSIAJE:~r ts yr.:!s.
MR. EFFORD : Mr . Speaker .
MR . SPEAKER :
1.3836 JuJ.y 4, 1988 Uol XL
DR. COLLINS : Mr·. Speaker·, UH~ mal:.'trdr has bE!en gone into in some detail and I will have the information shortly.
MR. EFFORD: Mr . Speaker .
MR . SPEAKER: A stJppl.ernentc.~ry, t.hE! hon thE! member for Port de Grave .
MR. FURFY : John , l hI" y clt' e 1 aug hi. n g '" t i. t .
MR. FFFORD : WhilE:~ thE:~ MinislE:'I'' of f n te r•g 0 lJ E! t' rllnE! n l'".r::ll. at the question I
(lfft:l ·i r·s laugh s tE!J.] you peopl E·
.:-1i:: thE:~ M ·iJl.c,~r· C(!nl·.t"C"! i.·\r'E! no t laughing.
MR. DAWE : I IAJas l.c11.1ghing dt UH:' tnernbE?.r', not the question.
MR. EFFORD : I ask is thE! Minister of Health atJJi'.lre that some thirty - five
No. 67 R3836
pal::i.enl:s, JflE!n C\nd IAJOHwn, on i:hE:'
t-hit"d floor at"~~ using onE!
lAJ<:~shr·oom facility? f.s l·.he:~
Minister of Health aware of the
c o n d i. ti. o n s l:: 11 "' i: t h e y t''lr' e:~ p J. cl c t~ d
under·?
MR. RAIRD : How would the minister be aware of
that?
MR. SPEAKER : The han. the Mtnister of He:~al th.
DR. COLLINS: Mr. Speaker, if the hon. member
has a part.:icul.ar problem of that
nature, I would think it is
something to be looked into by
some official in the department
somewhere. It "is not a mattE:~r
t:hat wotJld be nor·mally brought to
UH:~ tn:i.nist.<,~r1 s i.·lth:~ntion, but i.f
he wants to give me a note on it,
r. IAJi.l.J. cert.:t'l·i.nl.y Lr·y i:o get ~>orne
i n for· mat i on . H e c o IJ 1 d s end a not e
to l.: h e d C::' p d r i: rn e n t: d n d r. d m s 11 r· e
the officials, who are very
co 11 r t. eo us , IAJO 11 J. cl s 1.1 p pl. y h J rn IAJ.i. L h
:infor·rnation. Rut if he:~ IAJants to
send we a note I IAJoul.c:l send i.t on
fOI" him .
MR. EFFOlW: A final supplementary, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPFAKER: A final supplementary, the hon .
the member for Port de Graue.
MR. EFFORD : I guess, Mr . Spt~al<(;'r, this is why
everybody in this Province
considers h(:~aJ.th a joke, because'!
that is what the minister is doing .
MR. SPEAKER : Order, please!
A final. suppl.errwni::dr'y .
MR. Er'FORO: Yes, Mr. Speaker .
1 .. 3 a :3 7 J11J.y 1~, '19HB lJ o l . X I.
T r.l s k .i. :> l: he i.IJ ·i n :i ~> i e r· of H ~~ d l t h
not concerned? It is under his
d E! par· i: rn E! n t t. hE! :> e n 'i. or c ·i t: ·i. z lo! n s
division comes I assume. He is
not t on c t::! r· ned 1.11i i: h t: he p eo p 1 E:~ at
the Hayles Horne and Escasoni. Is
he not concerned about the
conditions that those patients at
the Miller Centre are living
under, the fact that thi rty-five
p eo ple have to l i ne up in the
morning to use one wash ro om
facility? Not onl y is it
degrading, it is als o unclean and
un~walthy.
Will l:he minister not instruct his
department to investigate this -
situ~tion and have it rectified so
that thE!se people have not got to
liue under these dirty conditions?
MR. BAIRD : He will prove you wrong if he
chE:'cks Jt·: o11l.
MR. EFFORO: It is not wrong!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the M:i.n·i.~>h~r of HeCl1th .
DR. COLLINS: Mr. Sp(:~ak~;:~r. 1: RltAJ<:·lys chE~ck oul:
what the han. mE!mber asks mE:! . I
miJSt sRy to dal:e, anyt.i.rn<,~ I chc~ck
these things out I have found
things to be almost totally the
reverse of what he states in this
House. But I will continue to
check the things out becauSE! somE•
day he may stumble on s real
problem and I would not J.ike not
to respond to it.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the rn~mtbE!r' for· ME!nihl,~k .
MR. FENWICK: My qii(:~S l::.i.on, Mr·. Spedi<E!r', 'is For·
the Minister of Health.
It has to do with a situation with
1\Jo . 6 7 R3B37
regard to Robert Pitcher, a constituent whose situation I brought to the attention of the MinishH' of HC::~nlth a '"'htlE! back, and to attention of the the previous Minister of He~lth (Dr. Twomey). It concerns an indiuidUi:\l 1~.1ho op€~rRtec:l ~ dr·ug store in Winterton for a period of Lime I cHld l.•.kl$ For C!~d Oil t of business, he alleges, by actions of the doctor tn the particulctr JocrxUon. Jn r~~cent weeks we hi:we fo1tnd l:hal~ there arc,~ ~t l.er'\sl-. two addHionaJ. drug stotnE:~S which hr.J.ve Rl.~;o bl~r~n forced 011l: of businc,~ss.
MR. SPF.AKF.R : Order·, plE:~ase!
MR. FENWICK: My q u (:~ s L: i. on t. o t: he mi rri s t C! r· i_ s this: Since repeated requests to Uw Me::~d-i.cal Boc1rd haue not brought any kind of a satisfactory solution to this individual 1 s problem and the problems of the other drug store owners on that shore, has the minister taken any actions, si.nce t.ue notified him t.wo wee::~ks ago about the problem, t.uith respect to the Medical. Board to ensure that they will look at this problem and see that justice ts done->. in this par·ticular situation?
MR. SPF.:(.)I<f:R : The hon. t.he Mi.nis l:.c,~r· of Hc,~.:·lli:h .
0 R. COI.I_II\IS : Mt". Spt~a k er, t hE:H'E:! :is no "i.ndJ.cal:ion Hli:li-: j1tsi:ic~::~ hi'\S nol: b e e n d o 1'1 e . T h e r· e :i s a c o n f 1 i c t of ord.ni.on:; dnd i.l.: IAias bro11ghi: 'l:o tny attention a number of times. I h a IJ E! 11.1 t" i. i:: 1:: C"! n 1:: o 1.: he ME! d -L c d 1 B oct r· d , becalJSe :it is :in their arE:'a, to l:. r· y t o r r::~ s o 1. u e . T h a v e 1"' r· i. t I~ e n i o them a number of times and they a r (~ t r· yin g 1: o res p on cl 1: o b o t h sides, but I do not think that e::~it.hE!r si.de to dat.e has bo(~n
L3 838 July 4, 1988 Vol XL
satisfied with the Medic a 1 Board ' s responses. But I strongly suspect that no mattE!r how many responSE!S go out both sides will not be mutually satisfied.
MR. FENWICK : A supplementary, Mr. Spoaker .
MR. SP£11KER: A supplementary, the hon . thE! rnernbr::~r for· M(!n i.hc,, k.
MR. FENWtCK : Mr. Speaker, I have also ~;E!nt cornpJ.ai.nl· !; l:o l.he Medi. ci'\1. f.lo<H'd for this individual, and I have~ now r· E! c E:' i. IJ e d i'\ r· (;! pl. y f nHn t: hE! · Medical Boar·d saying that th.::~y an' not i.nvesttgat-Lng Further .
MR. SPEAKER: Order·, pl€~RS(,~!
MR. FENWICK : Since the Medical Board has now indicated t.hat it considers the case closed, yet they have not investigated nearly half of the evidence which exists out there, w"i.l1 the min·i.ster assurE~ us that t.ue will direct the ME!dical Board to reopen the invostigation, examine the situation, and cornE! to sorne sort of reconcili.atton, or at least attempt to Find '"'hE!ti'Hc!r or not Lhe rlocl.:or involved is violaU ng the standar·d · code of eHl'i.v; :i.n the actions thc::tl:: he is pursuing?
MR. SPEAKER : nu,~ h o n . U1 e M i rl'i. :; 1: P r o f 1-1 c,~ a l. t. h .
DR. COLLII\JS: Mr. Speaker, I certaj_nly will c he c k r:1 n c:l s f::~ r:~ i. f 1-: h f::~ M ('! 1 I i c al Boar· d thinks the case is cJosed, but I do rej f::~c-1-. Mllf l:ho11ght L:hctt they have not looked at the evidence . T h <.W C:~ q u-i. t. C:~ d
corTespondence t l·li. :; lrld t t: e r· ' c:.t
No. 67
number of pieces of in my offiCE! on rn a 1:: t. t;! r· b !::' 1:: '"' t-:~ E! n t: ,.._, o
R3838
i. ndi.vi.du<:~l.s, and T do nor~ kno1~1
l'WPn if it is Cl pr·oper matter to
b E:~ b r· o 1 1 9 h L 1.1 p h 1:~ r· e ·i n 1.: h I'! H o 1 1 ~; e o F
A!;~;emb1y . It is ~l rnc-.lt:tE!I" of
d i. F f E:~ r' l:! n c e o F o p i. n i . o n , o F a
complaint bl"ought by one
i. n d i. u i. d 11 a l. a g a i. n ~; r·: Uw o t h e r· ·'~ n d
lhP- other, one~ denying t.hat
cou1pla-Lnl: . l am sur·e i.t goe~; on
all thE:~ time ln the communi t.y, in
I .. hE! tA.Iorld for t:.ha 1·: ma tl.E•r'.
But I will. c hE:' c k 1: o s e t::~ i. f t. hE:~
case is cloSE!d, but I do reject
any thought that. t.hc~ Medical BoiH'd
has not given a very large amount
of attention to this matter
between two individuals.
MR. FENWICK: A supplementary, Mr . Speaker.
MR. SPFAKER: ~ final supplernentctry .
MR. FF.NWICK: My final question: Would the
mi n i. s !:<:~ r pl. e"' s E! r:l o 1.: h .:1 1:. qui. c k l y?
T have tal ked to t hl':! i.nue:,stigator
W h 0 h d !3 d 0 n e 1: h t' 'i. 1'1 l) E! S U . 9 r'\ t i 0 1'1 f 0 t'
t.he Medical. Boat"d and thE!
i. n lJ (~ s 1: i. 9 i:l l: o r·
haVE:' not informs me done the
investigating necessr'lry.
MR. SPfAKFR: Order, please!
MR. FENWICK :
(-. ha 1: UHc' y thorough
I am posing my question now, Mr .
Speak~;;H'.
MR. SPEAKER : Order, please!
The hon. member knows quite well
t h a t "i n a f ·i. n a 1 s u p p 1 erne n t a r· y h r.:~
doE!S not makE• statements like he
is dotng now, but h~;:~ asks a final
suppleme:~ntary.
The hon. the member for Menihek.
I 38]9 July 4, 1988 Vol XI .
MR. FF.NWCCK: My f i nal qul':~stion: Would thE:'
Min'i.sl . tO! r' of H(:~dlLh plt'!i:'l~)(;! r:.J.ddr'r.:'SS
that: p a 1n ·U. c u 1 a r q u e s ·U o n , s i n c E:' 1~1 E:'
hi:\lJC·) infor·rrtC\I:.i.on th.'\i··. ·i.nd.icat:~~s
that some of the:~ practices bEdng
i. n d u l g e d i. n b y i: h e ·i. n d i. u -L d u a l
doctor· on that Shore:~ may be life
i:hr~~l'li:.en"i.ng? W:i.lJ. L:he:~ lrti.nistE!r' do
that quickly, so that we can makE•
SUI"(:~ thr;\i·: ..-\l'lY of theSl"! pr·acti.CE!S
are brought to a quick and speE!Cly
C'! ncl?
MR . SPEAKER: - ·-The hon. the MinistE!r of Health .
DR. COLLINS: Mr. Speaker, if the hon. member
has i.nfor'rrtr'll~ion of that nature I
would hope he would have giVE!n it:
l:.o the:~ Mt::,di.cal. Boar·d, and 1 l~rn
sure the Medical Board will act:
responsibly in those regards. I
am not saying that he shouJ.d not
hi.rnsE:~J.F SE)Ild ,;,ny ·i.nFor·rnr.\ti.on hE!
has to the Mt::,dical Boar·d becaust::- 1
+·.hi.nk hE' citiZE:~n
has a responsibility as a to do th~t, but if he
l.~k\ 1'1 1: !) 1-.: 0 !) 1::'1'1 d ('(1 (,~ r'\ C 0 p y l IAI 0 l.l l cl b E~
only too glad to receive it.
MR. I USH: Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAI<FR: Thco~ hon. !:hE:~ rrtE!rnbc,~r· For Bonav .ista
North.
MR. LUSH: Mr·. Spt::~i.-lk(o~r·, i.n t.hC:' abS(o~nCE! of thE!
MinistE:~r of Municipa1 Affair's (Mr.
B r e t t ) t tAli 11 c:l-l r e c t t he qu a s t i o n
to the Premier. Th e Pr em j er wi ll
k now t ha t on 3 1 0 c-t o b e r 1 9 8 7 th e
Fagan Commission of Enqu i ry
st.1bm i tted i. t s f~~a s i b i li t y r e port,
the report prepared con c ern i ng th e
mat t er of a r• e v i. ~f:'! d tn a nd ate f or
the St . John • s Me t ropol itan Bo a r d
a nd r-:.:! 1. a ted mc~tt.e r':> . I n v tEiw of
this, since the report was
subrn:Li:I:: E~d ~;orne l:'·ight. ntonlhs i'lgo
· No. 67 R3839
noi;..J, I wonder can indicate what is
the the
Pr(:O!tn ··i . <:~ r
pr~~sent status of 1:-.h"i. s t'E!por· t?
MR. SPEAKER : The hon . the Premi er.
PREMIER PECKFORD : It is being examined by the Cabinet, Mr. Speaker.
MR. LUSH: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker .
r~R. SPEAKFi~: A supp1E;ITIE~nt.ary, the hon. the rnc:nnber for· Bon<.wis l.: r.t 1\lor·i-h .
r~R. I..USII : Ml". SpeakeJ'·, J ask the Pr·emier· i.:hdl: in v-i.ei;..J or l:he fe~ct l.:hi:ll ·. J.t ha!; bE:HHI E:~ight months since the r t~ p o r' 1.: h d s b eo~ c,~ n i . n l h E:~ h "' n d :; o f t-he:~ Minis teo'r of Munj cipal Affairs, cr:tn t.:he ln"i.n"i.si~E!r l.ndi. Cr:ll·:c~ to Lhi.s House why the:' appa1nent unnecessary dr.:~ldy?
MR . SPEAKER : The hon . the Premier .
PREMIER PECKFORD : We do not thl.nk lt is an unnecessary delay, Mr . Speaker.
MR. LUSH: A supple111entar·y, Mr·. Spf~akcO!r .
MR. SPEAK~R: A final supplementary.
MR. l. US~I: M r· . S p ~~ r"·l k t:~ r· , d y i:l :i. n T d ~; k I: h ~) Premj er, in tJiew of the f r· 11 !> 1: r· d l i. on bE~ in g e:~ x p P t' ·i.e n c n cl by t.IH~ S t . J o h n 1 s M E:! t r o p o 1 -.i t a n R o a r d , nol-. knoJ;..J"i.ng J;..J~wl : hr:n· ·i.·l: ·i.s corning Ol" go j ng, not knoJ.I.Ij_ng IAlhctt:. its f u t 1 J I" E:~ 'i. s go i. n g 1: o b t) , can '1-. h ~~ Premier indicate to lhis board, d n d i: o o t h c,~ t' c o n c E! r rH'! d c o 1 1 n c i. l !; i. n thE~ St. John 1 s M.:,tropolit.an arc,~a, IAJhen !~.hey CcHl E:~XpE•Ct SOiriC:~ i'IC 1-:i.on
L3840 JuJ.y 4-, 1988 Vol XL
fr·om ti'w gov e rnrnPnt reg a rding Uli. s . . ? cornm1ss1on.
MR. SPEAKER: ThcO! hon. the PrE!mier .
PREMIER PECKFORD: As soon as possible, Mr. Speaker .
MR. GILBERT: Mr . Speaker·.
MR. SPEAKER : ThE! hon. !:hE:) rm~rnber for· BuJ~geo -A r'l :J d 1 F. S p 0 ·i. t' .
MR. GTLBERT : Thank you, Mr. Speaker .
I hav~~ a question fo1~ thE! M:in :i. ster· o r T r· i:l n s p o t' 1:. i:l 1·. :i. o n ( 1'-1 r· . no y l. P ) . Many times during the Winler we Cl.~>ked l . he:~ rn:i.n i !;I:Hr' qLJesl.:i.ons concerning the impending c J.osN.1ut of t:he r·c-d.liAJr:~y clrH:I i·w a11Ali:~ys denied that there wer e nr.:~got.it-lt-Lons ongotng, but I.;..Jhe:~n he did he ta] ked about thE~ conCE!rns of l:hc co111muni t i.cO!s and thE! pc-?. ople who were gojng to be involved di.rectl.y "i.n l:he closeout of the railway, and alu.1ays sa:id that these quetions were going to be addressed adE~quatE!ly. So I wondE~I~ l. s 1-:.hc~ nrini s bH' ·i. s dlAkH'f~ of any concerns or unrest being (:~XpPr'iEHlCPci by ~?.lllpl.oyE!f:~S IAlhO C:~re going to be affected by the C l. 0 S (;! 0 l.1 1:: () f 1-.: h (,~ Y' r:l i . l.iAli'l y i:l S {:: () (: h (:' package that is bej ng ofFE!red to i·.hprn ct:; sel:I~.J.e:~rnE!n'o-.: For· thf~ closeout? Is the ntin:i s tE:H' al.l.l cH ' E• of ctny Prnplayces problE!rn~; J;..J:i t.h that.?
MR. SPFAI<FR: Ti'w han . l :he Transport.c.d:::lon.
MR. DOYI.E : . r~r· . S p E! r'l !< E! t' , '[ !·li.~ IH' pE~rs onally aware of 1: th:i.nk l·: hc~ lni:li·:·I .. E!t'
No. 67
hi'li.J:-i.ng c:;tny
f"' "i. n ·i. s 1·: c.-:~ r· of
no 1~. be e n madE! any pi~oblE•rns . i. ~; pi"oceE'!d:ing
R3840
as i 1: sho 11 l.d. Th<~rc has be e n ~1
$7S milJ ion Labour Adju stment
P t:\ c k r:1 g e p tJ 1: 1 n p 1 c1 c e 1: o s a Li. $ f y
the -t-er ms ar1d cond:i ti on s of thE:~
exi.s 1: i.ng t:oll.ec 1: i . l)l:'! a gr· eernen 1: o'tt'lcl'
over and above that, Canadian
1\Jcil:i.ondl. hi:\:> rnc:tdE:~ Lht-) connrl'i. l:ure:~nt
t hclt ·they rJJi 1 J negot:l.a te a no ·t her
pr.u:kclc:Jt:' v.d t h UH,~i.r· e1npl.oyet:!:>. T
letke it that th~)Se negotiatjons
<:1re:~ proct:~ecling on sche:~d1rl.e:~ .:1ncl l
h1:1ve no r·(,!f.ISCHI t.o think Uli:lt thel"e
are any concerns at this point,
Mr. Speaker.
MR. GILBERT: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER : The han. t.he member for Burg eo
Bay d 1 Espoi.r· .
MR. GTLBERf: The minister is obviously not
aware that there are 100 middle
management people, not covered by
Rny coll(>.ctive agrc~::~m(~nt, IAiho clre
ver·y concerned regarding the offer
thd 1·. hcis bE:~ en made t.o -l:he:~rn.
MR. SPEAKER : Order, please!
Wo•tl.d l:he hon. 111mnbe:~r· pJ.E:~i:lSf) po:;e
a question?
M[~. GILBERT: T:> l:hc'! llli.ni.:; lt:H' atJJdrE:~ of i.he:~
concerns baing expressed by the
over 1.00 rni.ddl.e l'flt:Hl<:~gewen ·l-
employees regarding the offer that
hc:lV(:~ b~:!c,'n wade l:o l:ht:~rn for· d
cJ oseout package? Is he awar·e of
any conc(~rns?
MR. DOYLE : Mr. Sp~>.aker· .
MR . SPEAKER : The han. the Minister for
Transpor·tat.i.on .
Mf~. DOYLE :
I 3841 July 4, 19BB Vol XI .
Mr . Spet'lker, ~11. of th es E;! thin g s
will undoub tedl y be the subject of
negol: i .aU.on:> be'ttm;!en CN 1?1nd thet r
emplo ye es . I take it that lhal
IJJI)IIl_c:f pr•oceed r'\J.ong l~ h ~ I')Or!Oml.
route and any concerns t he
em p 1. o y e ,.~ s h a '' 0 llli ll. b e e x p r· e s s e d
by their respective unions and
ddd rE:~ :; :; <,'d.
MR. GILBERT : A final supplementary .
MR. SPEAKER: A final supplementary, the han.
the rnembor For Burgeo - Bay
d 1 Espoir.
MR. GILBERT : These 100 people arE• not
represent.E:~d by a urdon. Wi.ll thE!
minister undertake to contact
Tt:H'retTr·anspor ·t offlcii::tl.s to E!nsur'E!
that these non-union employees
receive a fclir and just
settlement? Will he check to see?
MR. SPEAKER : The hon . thE! M-i. n i. s t: ,,. r· of
Transportation .
MR. DOYL.f: Well, Mr . Speaker, we would be
tJ I:' r y t: on t: e r· I' I('! d i : h i~l I: t-: h <'! s P p eo pl. (''
receive a fair and just
~-~)tl:l.E.~rnent.. Rut i:ht::!n, .:-1gc1 ·i.n, t.hat
wi 11 be negotiated out , I a rn s u ,~ E• ,
betiAIE:~c-:~n Ci\1 i:Hld t:h~):i.r· (~lnpl.oyE:!es.
MR. BAKER: Mr. Speaker .
MR. SPEAKER : The hon. Uw Jnmnbc-:~r· for· Gand('!r.
MR . BAKER: A question for the Minister of
Forest Resources (Mr. R .
AyltJJar·d). Th(:! 11r'i.n .l.si:er· knotAIS that.
some years ago Bov.Jater· puJ.J.ed out
of thr:dr Gl.entAJood OPl"'t'at.ton, and
s:ince that time the NorthWE!St
C a n d e r IAIO o d 1 :> r· o i:'l d h d ~; b e (~ n u s l'! d
No . 67 R384-l
for l-1 Vcn· ·i.e1-.y of p11rpost::~s. RPcen t ly I have hear·d that Kruger hds come to a deci.si.on to r·r:~movr:~ the steel bridge across the NorthlAJt:!St Ganck!r Riv(;!t'. I wondr:~r if the minister would express his opinion on this rnov~~ and indicate IJJhether this is in line with his envisioning of Uw pr·oper· use of that particular part of the country?
MR. SPEAKF.R: ThP ~10n. the M'Lni.sb~r of For· C! !) t Resources.
MR. R. AYlWARD : Mr . Speaker·, this beE:~n brow,3hl: i:o before . I w:i.lJ ad tJ i. s ~) rn I':~ n i.: d 11 d g e t cHI f:HISWel".
MR . BAKER : M r· . Sped k l':n' .
MR . SPEJlKt:f~:
A supplemt::~ntai"Y .
MR. BAKER :
matter has not 1r1y r.11:Le11L:i.on
tab:! it under· l:hc-) ho11. rn<-:~ml:lr:~r·
I wonder would the minister when he contacts Krug(:H' I point out. t .hi'lt the government has issued dozens of cabin permits for that particular road, and that 400 moose licences are issued there every Fall? Without that bridge none of the cabins will be accessible and the moose licences will be rll.most valueless.
MR. SPEAKER: Thr:• hon . thE:' MinistE:~r of Forest i"?l:!SOI.Ir'CPS.
Mr~. I~ . AYU,.JflRD: Mr . Speaker, I take all of that 11nc:ler ddtJi:;(~menl·. <:lnd ~~JhE!n T •:Hfl t. f:t J k :i n g t. o I< l" u g e r I IJJi J 1 CE:! r t a ::i. n 1 y b r ·i. n g t h i. :; l. o 1': h lc~ ·i. t' d. t l·: e n i: i. o n .
r'IR . RAKf':R : ,..,l". Speai<Pl" .
1_3Bl~2 July IJ.I '1. 9813 Vol. XI.
MR. SPF:AKFR : A final supplementary, i::ht'! HlCc'ln~Wr for· Gandc,'r'.
MR. BAKER : Mr. Speaker, it is going nE!W questi.on .
MR. SPEAKER: Then I recognize the me 111 b C:' r f o r· E rl g 1 e R i . v ~~ r· .
MR. HISCOCK :
thE! ho n .
to bE! a
hon. the
Mr. Spea!nH' I
Premier, in ihe r'l'i.ni. :;i·.E!r' j.s not hE!r'e.
my quest Lon is to l'.:he view of thE! fact lhat
of M 1 1 rl'i. c i_ p r.1 l A F fa 'i. r· s
The cnrnrnun 'i. ty of Si~ . l .. e1.~Ji. s , Labrador, was s chE:~dul~~d to 90.1t d I1!·)1J.J :;chool. l:>tl·i.l.l: l. h i . :; yr:hH'. l . <"t~;t. tlugust they changed thE! muni c ipal pli:ln. Tn F~~brl l <'lF' Y l·hE~y hdd meetings with officials in Goose R d y , .:1 n d M·:t y 1. ") 1.: h ~) y ~; C'! n I·~ -L n 1:: hE' application.
PREMIER PfCKFORD: (Inaud-Lbl.e).
MR. HISCOCK: Yes I th~~y cl'li'll'l9E!d the totAJn plans .
rhe cornrnuni ty has vob:!d on tJJh~:!re the school should be . The DE:~par·tment. of Muni.c t pal Affairs had difficulty in getting a commiss i onaire to go i n and do the study, wh:l ch has noLJ.J bE!E!l'l po:;tponed until. August 9 1 whi.ch means a loss of time from the shor·l~ con:;tr'llct-.-Lon S(~i:lson. T see it as the responsibility of the D(:~p.:tr·UnE•ni·: of Mltrd.ci.prll. Aff,,d r·· s. Wi 11 i:he Pr·ernier under·take:~ to •'lSSIIt'C:.~ l':h!·) COTflllllll'l:i. l ·. y Of ~)1:: . I_(;!IAI ".LS that t\'ds IAiill be spE!eded up? 1\]lllllbC.t' I.:JMOI I~J'i. l J. l:h!::'Y i:\1~~0 tah' into account that the coiTifiiUni-Ly hr.1:; tJoi :ed IJ.ih~)r'C'' l·he ~;chuol. shoul.d go? We realize tha t the dt'!p;u·hnent: lvt ~ > l:o foll.OIAI 1;-\IAJS dncl re~gulations, but thPr'c-:! ha s to bP
No . 6 '7 R3B4.2
flexibility, given the short
cons t r· u c t-. i_ on s e a s on i. n Labrador.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKFR: Tht! hon. thP Pr·ernier· .
PREMIFR PFCKFORD: Ml'". Sper.lker, I lAri 1.1 look into it
IAJi. l:h 1··. h~~ M -L ni. ~; LE~r· of M11 n·i. ci.pi-1 1.
Affa:irs and the MJnister of
1\Jorth~~rn DE!IJ(:~l.optn:~nL (Mr·. ~~r.lrr·en).
MR. TULK : Mr·, SpeakE:~,~ .
MR. SPF.AKER: The hon. the member for Fogo .
MR. TULK : Mr. Speaker, I have a question for
l:hE:~ Prcc~mic·H' i.n l:he absE:H1CE:! of the
M:i nister of Fisher] es. It
concerns the protection of our
saJ.mon resource, in particular as
l: h e y rtri. g r a t e i. n 1 a n d t h r· o u g h o u r·
riVE!rs to spawn. Now. the PrE:'tnier
is probably awctre thdt I have been
getting support From the
ProuinciRl Minister of fisheries
and our· Federal Minister (Mr.
Crosb·Le) in Otl.:o'll.lla r·egr:u·d·jng "1-.h ·i:;
ntr-.. d·tt~r. l.ately it has come to my
a-t:t.E!nl.·.:i.on, Fr·o111 lJw Sdl.111on
A~sociatjon of Fastern
l\le1AJfounc:IJ.,u1d, l:hr.1l: Rocky R"i.tJf:~r·
near ColJnat. where there was a
$1.:? rni. l.l:ion sdlflll)n ~::~nh.:lnr:f)fllenl·:
p r· o g I" a rn. I b E·J.·.i eve • car-r l. E:~ d out •
h ct s b 1;! c,~ n 9 "i. v E! n n o fH' o h~ c Li o n b y
the fed ~H·al go v er·nrn(Hit .
MR. SIMMONS : Read the resolution .
MR. TULK: I know cop·i.t:!S of l.:l-w r~~solu+:.ion
have also gone to the governmE!nt,
l:o i:.hc:~ M.inis tc·H' of Fi.shc,,r· i~~s (Mr·.
Siddon). and I believe to our
federdl representative in Ottawa
as lAH~ll.
L.3 B 43 J t.ll. y lJ. • 1 9 a a Vol XI .
I ask the Premier, therefore, has
l:he go,;er·niTIPnt bt:!Pn "i.n touch IAJi.th
the federal government, in p ~- r +:-i. c t.tl .~u· M r . S i. d d o n • o n t h L s
matter, and would he lJndertake t o
t a b 1. 0 cHI y 1; o r r e :.> p o n r.l '~ n c li! r e 9 t'l r d i. n g
the protection of our sa l mo n
t' ·i_ I) l')t' S 7
MR. SPFAI<FR: Thr,1 hon. l.:hc:1 Pr·f:~lll.i.tH' .
PREMI ER PECKFORD : I wilJ check with thE! M:inJster of
F Lsher·:i. c,~s, Mr·. !3pc,~<:lb:!r .
MR. TULK : n s 1.1 p p l. t~ m t~ n t. d r· y • M r . ~3 p e a. kt:H' .
MR. SPEAKER: () s 1 J p p 1 e 1n en t. a r· y , Uw hon . thE!
mt:'mbE!r for Fogo.
MR. TULK: W~1'i.1e he is at i.t, would Lhe
Premier also attempt to find out
what: kind of log·ic Mr·. Siddon and
the federal government use when on
i·.hc-:~ on(:~ hdnd thPy p1Jt:. IO""i.ll. i.ons of
dollars into a Sellman E!nhanceJTIE'•nt
progrc:Hn:; on our' r·ivors, yut fai.l
to put the necessary protection,
.i.n i:H/'111:; of s.:-1l.rnon gl.li:H'Chi.H1S. on
dvc·>.r'S J.ike Rocky RiutH', IAJhjch I
bl~l.·intJr::' i. n U1r-:' D · i. ~;lr-"i.ct oF ~:; ·1-..
Mar·y' s - The Capes, and otht:!ln
Hk\jor· ~;i:\lmon r· ·i. tJer·:; <'H'Oiind L~Hc'
Province? Would he undertake to
:; e ~' 1~1 l·~t·ll: k i n cJ o f l. u g -i_ c L he
minister is using? Because it
:;(,~(,'1"11:> l··. o nlf~, on l.:ho onu hdnd, he
is speaking out of one side of his
ulolli-·.h .u1r:l, on the ot:h(:!r' hand.
speaking out of the othE!r side of
h·i.s IIIOIII~ h.
I wonder would the Premier
under·t.;,"kP t:o see whdt kind of
logic the federal minister -~s
using, if indeed he is usi.ng any?
MR . SPEAKER: The hon. the PrmniE!r .
No. 6'7 r-nB43
PRFMJFR PfCKFORD: Mr. Spei'tkur·, iHl (:~Xcunj_n<.~i::ion of J-.h(:~ kind of logic is a very complE!X, i.nt<=!ll.c:1ct.ui:ll tnr:\1::i:c:1r', bu+: T t.ui.l.l. do r11y best.
~TUL~: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER: The ~lon. l:he member· for· Fogo .
MR. TULK: Mr. Spe:~aker, I say to thE! PremiE!r, y<;!s, logi.c .is very cotnpl.<,~X, but i.n some cases it can also be very foolish.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, pJease!
MR. TUIK: :r cl~;k t-he Pl"em:i.er·, the:1n, is he:1 go ·i. n g 1: o i:1 J. J. ot~J UH:~ F t-:~ de r i" l. Tor· ·i. t1 !;
SOMF. HOl\1. MF.MRFRS : Qu~~~;t.Jon!
r'IR. TU!.K: Tltat :is Cl question .
T~; h<-:' go:ing to allow the FederaJ. Tories in OttawB to ignore Newfoundland and Labrador once age\ i.n, i. n th~! S''Hne manner as ~ : hey did with FFTs, the Canada-France fiasco, and once ag;,d_n f<H'U1 hi.s government to give in? This question has bE!<Hl r·aisc-'!d by our Federa l Minister in Ottawa and the Provincial Minister of Fi.sheri.es. For a few po] i tical votes and to h d v <-'! good r· E-~ l a t -L o n s tAd. t h h ·i_ s buddies in Ottawa, are we going to s <'J E! i't no UHH' s e 1 1 . o u +: o F <HlO 1:: he r· r·esourcc,,?
PRFMJFR PFCKFORD: 1\J o :: i't 1; t-:1 r :1 g o o d s fH:1 e c h .
MR. FFFORD: Mr. Speaker .
1..3 B!J l'j- July 4-, l.9BH Vol XL
""
MR. SPEAKER: The hon . I: hE:' rnmnbE!r' for· Pot'i-: dE! Graue .
MR. EFFORD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, my question, again, i .s to thc,1 Mintst~H' oF Hea.ll:h, and it is a very serious question concerning the situation at the Health Science CornplE•x. ThE! mi.nistar committed some time ago that he would be putting more monc:~y 'i.nto l:.h~~ H~::,al.l:. h Sc-i.ence Complex to prevent any layoffs. Hcts 1-.:hf~ rnini.ster or· h "i. s clt-=!par·i: ITlE!nt decided to put in more money to opc~n beds ·l~ hd::. dr'e nCHAJ cl.o~;pd so that patients try:i.ng to get into ho';p .. i. i:dl. ;-_hi. ~; St.JHIIII(!r' IAJ"i.ll nol:. I:H~ pt'E!IJl;!nl-·. l~d fr·on1 doj_ng so?
MR. SPFAKER : The han. the Minister of Health .
DR. COLLINS: Mr. ~;pE!akE:1r, T do not r'E!Ccl11 tflr:lki.ng ::1ny c:omnd.tnH=!nl : to put mot't.:' money into the Health Scjences Cenl-:r'E:' or i"nywhere:1 e-lSE! for· Lhat matter, What I did say was we I~J(:H'('! goi.ng 1:_0 :;i.t dOIJ.Jil l.I.J:.i.\-.·.h management and members of t.he b o "' r cl i:l t t h c,1 H e "'l. t. h S c i. H n C<"! C c.:. n t r e to discuss any concerns they might h d v e . I Uli. n k I 'i. n d i. c a i:. f'HJ d L t h e same time we were going to do that
IAJ "i. t h d n y o i·: h r:~ r 1rti-l j or j n s t :it u t j_ on that had concerns to SE!E! j_f thE!re LI.Jd s d n y f 1 e:1 x i. b i. l. .it 1J i. n 1:: h ~~ budgE· t. s that they already have, or any chang<:' s 1-: he 1J rrri. g h t t~Jd n I·_: L o rna k P i. n view of present day experiences
IAJ h .. i_ c h l: hE:' :J d i . c:l no t. F o r· '" ~; e <~ w h e n they built up those budg~~ts bclck in Jr.HlltdriJ, Ff)br·ttcH' Y and M<H'ch, to see if any changes in the !)iTI.ICi-.IIT'e of 1:hl:' bttrlgOI.:S lltlOIIlcl b<:' helpful, and t.ue at"('! go:ing thr·ough I: h •'l -1 · e x e r· c ·i. ~; e . ~~ C::' h d 1; o b ''! o n <.J o -L n g thr·ough :it fot" sorn~=! cons:i<:IE:•rabJ (,! i::i. ttte i:lnd 1 t~Jollld '>i.-lY ·i l: i !; dr'diAri ng
No. 67 R3B44
to an end very quickly .
MR. EFFORD: A supplen1entary, Mr. Speaker .
MR. SPEAKER: A suppl.oment~ry.
MR. f.:FFORD: Jr. i-t not a concE1rn of the
Min ·i.s l:t!r oF lier.-1.1. l:h or· off·i.c i.r:ll.:; of
htr. deportment that Jast We dn es day
ni.ghi ·. a yo 11ng gi.rl. fr·ow Pori: d,,~
Gr·r1ve had on accident, accompan::i ed
b y r::t Peni:ecosf: al. Pa :> l: or· fro m U1H
conunun :i t y v.H:l!: ta l< e n to the Hea1th
Sci e n c e C t~ nt~ r e , IJJ ~HH' t-) s he WC\ $
assigned a cot in the corridor
u n L i. 1 T h u r· s d i:l y n i. g h I: r:l 1: s e u c,~ n
o•clock when she was assigned a
r· E~ g ul. ar· h o s p "i. t ct 1 be d ? I f t. h C\ 1: -j s
not a concern of the
adm.i. ni s t. r'd t ion and UH:~ Mi. ni. s t<:H' of
He a 1 t h , then what tAla u 1 d be a
concern?
MR. SIMMS: You had better be might turn off voters.
MR . SPEAKER :
careful . another
You fi. f ty
The hon. the Minister of Health .
DR . COLLINS: On an ouer·ag~~ annuc:l.] basis thE!re
drl::~ 90,000 ddrni.ssi.nn~; i:o l:hf!
ho~;p:Jtals in thls Province, and
e:~ lJ f! r y s i. n 9 J. 1::~ c:-1. c:l i·wi.-; :; ·i. on · i. ~; a
conc<:H'Il t.o Til~:! f..lS M:inlst:E:~r and t.o
i:h ·i s 90lH~r·nulf'!n 1-.. nwr·e .:u·e 90 I 000
ar.lrrd:.sions a yE:!ar . NotAl I i:lm sure
·~Hiong!d: Hwsi:'J 90,000 •:-1.drn-i . ~;s i. on :;
t hP hon. mt~mb8r' can drClg out a
pHr' c ~~ n h ·l g (,~ 1.11h ere t l'lE:H'H '"';-~ !> d n
cmer· g~·!ncy situation or· a
part i c ul. i.H' d t r F i. c ul. t y , or· d
tl':!mpor·alny probJ C:Hfl, IJJha-tevE:~r· . I
hav~~ r:l.bsol.ut.ely no doubt:·. I·H~ could
do that every day of th€~ weEd<,
b~::~e<:-lUS~~ 90,000 ddllli.ssions in th~~
r u n of a y ear i s an awf u 1 lot of
adrrriss-i.ons. But for· 1-.he hon.
l.3 845 July 4, 1988 Vol XI..
mt:!mbt'!r l:o come,~ .i.nl:o l .. h .Ls HousP
with some vague sort of story such
cl S h e j U S t g I) 1:·. 0 n IALi t h j_ S
ridiculous. If he has a problem,
d r· e "' l. J. y 1 (,~ g i t :i. rrkl 1: e:~ p r· o b l. l"! rn a n d :i. s
trying to ¥lelp out an ind:ividua1,
r· c1 i: h (:~ r· 1·: h d n i: r· y 1·: o 1 d ~; h t.: h e
government on the back of some
poor· :i. ndj,lJi.r:llli:lJ., ht-) lAJOIIl.d wri. b~ me
a le tte r or, euen be tter, he t.uould
go wi. s I. 1: 1: he h o s pi. t .:\1 i . t s 01 f,
djscuss an y problems th~t he
fH·H' c c-~ i . IH:! !) , a n d 9 e 1: 1: h !:~ ·1: r 1.1 C;l
answer. Bu t. for h:im to cc.,me int-o
l: h~) Hc) ti !H.! gi.lJi.ng i :h 'i.s lj.:tl"bledy
story t hat I have absolutely no
k I')()IJJ l. (:~ rf 9 C.~ i-\ S 1: 0 l•lh 0 1: h C-H' i. 1: i. S
t ru e, false, jndjfferent, -
lnclli. c;i.oliS, ruu1our, my t. h, m~'lde up
or what not is incredible! I have·
absol.1.1tf~l.y no ·i . d~~d al: l:.his t..i.rne
about someone who was adndtt.E•d or·
supposed t.o be adm-:i.I~.LHd or· IJ.Ji'lS
partly admitted or was going to be
admit.t:.r::~d or· w.ight hav(.:o been
admitted last week.
I mean it hon. member· and time go v e r nrm~ nt unfortunate ,;H:IIfli. s s i. o n s hospitals of
MR. EFFORD :
is ridiculous for the to be do -i. ng l.hi.s t. i rne again, lashing the
on the bctcks of p oor
peopJe, orn::~ of 90,000
r'\rll'l U ct -1 l. Y 1-: 0 1: h (''
this Pr·ouince .
11 f ·i . nr.~l. ~;11ppl elrH~nl·.dr'y, Mln. ~3FH~o:l!<C'!r .
r"1R. SPEAKER: (l fini:l1 stJpplernenLary .
MR. fFFORD : l. ei·: lilt' So:lY to l:he r-1-:i.n-i. s l"er· of
H f:~ a l t: h t: hat: it: :i s g E:' t tin g so n ou1
i.hi:ll: MHI1:; h•.-1.ve i:u ·.int::::!r·fer·e 1..1J 'i. l:. h
the systE,~rn in orde r to gE>t t:he:dr
people :i.nlu hospi.l:.ctl. Tha. t i.s 1·1o1JJ
deplorable l:he hea l ·th car·e systmn
is gel~.t: ·Lng.
MR . SPEAKER: Order, please!
No . 67 R3 84-5
MR. EFFOIW: ~~~t rne i:!Sk ti'tP Mjrdster· of HeaJth, i'1 r· . s fH:' (;\ kl:H' ' IJ.JI·w i: h i-\ :; Uw f ~ ( i: C) r 9,000 admissions to hospital got to cl o tJ.l "i.l.: h Uw l·.:t)IO p d L ·i. ~) n 1: :; t)J h o were kept on st1n~~b:hers in the co r r· "i do r· for s o 1 n .:: hm~ n I~ y . f o t 1 r· hour·s because of bed closures in l:h~) hospi.tal? V.Jh("i: has l:ha1~ got to do u.Ji th the odmis sions to the hospital? Is it not his fault that they have not got enough money to OfHHl the b1:~ds?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon . the Minister of Health .
DR. COLLINS: What t:hE: tiJJo patifH1ts hr.lvc,~ to do with the 90,000 admissions is they cornpr·ise I do nol: know IJJhal.: trli.nor· percentage of the total workload of t h li:~ h o s p "i. h:~ l s y s h:~ 111 ·"L n Hd. :; Province. ThC'.ll is IJ.lhal is has to do IAti.l:h thc,'u1. They "lr·r:~ ·1-. I)J!) oF 90,000 adrwissions Cl yc,~e:lln, not 9,000 btlt 90,000 adnri.:;:; ·i.ons '" y~:!iH'.
So .i.f l:ht:' hon. rnt)tnb~~r· hi·\:; ''' r·~:~;~l. pr·obJ.ern hE:~ j s concE:~r·nE:~d about, he IJJ·i.l.l not·. hold i.l: i.n hi.s ba<:k pockc~ ·t· until hE:~ can get to q 1 1 c,~ :; 1:. i. o n P l:~ r· i. o cl i. n ! ... h e H o 1 1 s ~=~ <:-\ n d thN1 try to lash the govE:~rnment IAlith i.t. ~\Jhr.\1.: h~;;~ IAJi.J.1 do "i.f he hCJ.s CJ. pr·obJ I':'ITI over a patient is he IAri.ll 'i . mlllf~d'i.;,\l:.o1y get i.n i:ouch with the administration of the hospLtal. TF he has rPal concer·n now, I am ta1king about if he has r· c:~ a l c o n c l~ r· n , L f h t=:~ L s n o t j u s t trying ·to pull off a political poi.nt as he dot":s t i.me and t i.tne again in this House, if he has a t'(~al concern for t:he IJJel:Fr:~re of a particular individual he will i.trnnerJ.iatel.y, once hP gel:.s the~ Jnformation, go to the hospital a n d t.r· y to g C:! 1·: UH~ f •. H: i: ~; r· i. 9 h !: . If i·l~! does not IA.Iant t:o do that, hE! Ci:Hl COlliE! l:o IIH:'. Th1,~ I~HH'~;t 1-)J"i.ng he can do is to hoJd it in his b d C k fl 0 C k C'! !". f C) t' t h I'' 1:~ f:' [) r• J- 0 I I t' d .,-\ y :;
u a 4·6 July Ll, 19BB Vo] XI
f. I: h . i. n k h l:' s i·\ · i_ d "i. I: C) ( 1: 1,1 I" I'' (o~ d l ,,, :> i: WednE:1Sdi:ly --not do i:tnythJng about ·ii:, 1:h1-)i'l COirlro! ·i.n1 ·.o 1·. h.i·; Hous~~ r.itnd h o p e t o l a s h t h E~ g o v e r-rt mE! n t. o v e r· ~; I) m t:' 9 rH' b l C:' cl y ~; •I: () r· y Ul d t ' t F ITI y expPr-i.ence u.Jil::h lrirn is correct:, is p r· o b ('\ b 1 y I) e r· y f r:\ r· F r· o tr1 b lo1 ·i n g totally accurate. In act.ua1 fact he Cr"nnot E:xpc~ct 1nc.:. dt th·Ls po-Lnt in time to be ab1e to do anything about i. 1-..
NotAl I cr;~nnot-. Pven, at t.h ·is po·.int in time, do a single thing about i. t. . H e h a s n o t g -L v E: n rn ~~ a n am E• , he has not given rne an addrE•ss, he has not gi.ven 1nf:! par·!:·icu1<'H'S as t.o what part of the hospital was involved. I have absolutely no information on IJ.Ihich to check out Ul'i.s s l·.ory, l:h i.s bogus stor·y or· LhJs mythical story or this ~~ c,1 n i: d 1·. ·L v ~) ~; l: o r· y o r· l".lri. !> d ll. f~ g f:' d stor·y, or whatever :it is thE! hon. 1nc,~mb€:r· i.~; tr·y"i.ng i'.o liil!>h Uw government with on the back of IJI'i.:; poor· "i.nd ·i.,J ·i.diiHl :i. f thE:.r'e was a poor individual involved. So T t~lOIIl. d 11r·ge i'.ht'> hon. nwrnber, if he has real concern about ct pdt.J.~)ni : , l:o <JO l>~kE: Lhf' Jnformatjon that he has to the h o s p i. 1:. r·\ 1. o r· g i v e i. L L: o Trl!'! j n s u c h a form that I can check it out.
SOMf HON. MEMBERS: Hf~dr, hE~clr!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The time for Oral Questions has elapsed.
SOMF HON. MEMRERS : By leave! By leave!
MR. SPfAKFR: 0 r· d f'! r· , p 1 E:~ a !> E:! !
Notices of Motion
No. 6 7 R3 84·6
MR. SIMMS: Mr . Speaker·.
MR . SPEAKER: The han . the President of the
Council..
MR . STMMS : Mr· . Spe:~aker, I lAJish t.o moue thai:
1.: h 1::~ f o l.l. OIAJ-i. n g lllE:~lnb (,~ r· ~; b c,~ ""p po ·i. nl·: r:~ d
as a Select CommJttee to study and
r·evi. ,,~tAJ l.:h~) clr<:tFI-. bi.l J. on thE!
CottfJ j ct of IrttE:q~c~st Gu:i.del:ines,
C~:> l:<"tbl.~:'cl by l:h~) Pr'l·~ lni.t' t' J•rne 29,
J 9 B B , and t hat· i ~ I'' e poI" ·t: b a c k to ,. h~:' I-lOII s e o'l. L U·w nc•x [-: s 1-) s s ·i.on .
The cornnd t-h:H:~ lAJould cons:i st of :
rhf:~ hon . UH,' llll'!lllbC·H' for ~)l:. rllary I:)
The Capes, the M~lnister of
Fcluccd: ·i.on (f•'lr'. H:~.u·n), i:he hon .
the m~:! rnl:n~r· for· Hurubc,,r VaJ ley (Mr· .
Wood For·d), thE-) hon. 1-.:hc~ meu1ber· for·
St. . John's Newt h (Mr· J. Carter),
t-.he hon. l::hE! rnc,)nJbE!r For Por··l·. e11.1
Por·t (Mr . Hodder), the hon. the
rnc,)rfll'HH' for· Gander (Mr· . Bakc~r), H1e
hon . the member for Burg eo -- Bay
d ' E s p o i. r ( M r· . G i. 1 be r· t ) , <-Hl d t he
han. the member for St . John's
East. (Mr. Long).
I so 1noue that. moti.on, Mr. Speakc~r .
MR . SPEAKER : You have haard the quGstion .
All. i-.hose i. n f.:, u o ' 1 r· p l. e:~ a s e s d y
'aye', those agalnst 'nay',
C 1:H'Y' i. (,~ d .
On HIOI". i.On, lfl(.)l'flbet'!;h-i.p or U'H)
S~!J E~d: Cornrn:i t-1-.E:!E', CiH'l"::i.C"!d .
Orders of the Day
MR. SHJJMS : Mot .ion J .
0 n motion , t: hat. thE:' l t: ~; "'l. f i. n 1: o Co muli. ttl:~ r:~ to consider certain
1_3 8 ip July 4, 19B8
House resolve of the Whole
resolutions
Vol. XI..
t' e 1 a 1:. -i. n g to Hw by the Province, the Cha i.r.
raising of loans Mr. SpeakE!r lE!ft
Committee of the Whole
MR . CHAIRMAN (Greening) : Order·, pl.l:~i:,se!
Resolution
Th<:'l- Lt-. ·i.:; ~)Xp(!d'i.l;!n·l·. 1-_i) bln ·i. ng in d
measure to authorize the raising
ft'OIIl 1: ·i.1111-:: Lo t ·i.rn~) by IAJdY nF l.odn ..
on the credit of the province the
Slllll oF !:hr··~)t' hunclr·od and
sr:wenty-fiue million doLlar's
($:17t.),000,000) r:,ncl ~;uch add-i.t .. :-i.onal.
sum or sums of money as rnay bE:•
,~e::~ q tli r·od to ,, o -1: ·'i. r· E:', I" e pi:' y , r· ('! rH:!lAJ
or refund securjties issuE•d undE:!r
any Act of the province.
DR. COLLINS : Mr. Chairman .
MR. CHAIRMAN : The hon. +:he Min'i.sh~r of Hc,1ct1.l:h .
DR . COLLINS: Mr . Chi:drlllt'\1'1, l: hE! hon. thE'!
Minister of Finance (MI" Windsor)
1. ~; on H t:! r· Md j E:1 ~;-!-: y ' s b u ~;j.n e s s
elsewhere in the Province today.
J 1-) x p f~ r: 1: he IJt LJ 1 be b a c k
tomorrow . On hj s I:H:~ I'lCl) f I I;.J:iJ J
i. n ITo cl 1.1 c f) t-. h · i. :; r· <) s o J.u i ·.to n .
I -t- i s n o t a r· E~ s o 1 u L j o n t h d t L h E:'
1-JOII:;I·.' ·i.!; 1'101: fdrrti, l,·i,:'lt' I~Jii:h i:JeCdll~;p
euer·y yE:!Clr w<-:> havo to br·Jng j n a
l .o ;,, n B ·i.ll . The P r· o IJ :i. n c e k c~ ('! p ~; ·_L 1: s
account!; :in 'l:LliO fashions, on~'!, ~it
hd:; i:' Cllt't':~nl-. •::\CCOUn+.: l~olh -i.ch, by
and large, does the day by day
Ofll,~Y'c'l.t ·ions of !:.he gov~:'rnrnE~nt. , and
secondly, it has a capital account
by r~Jirich it Funds such longc:•r' l:c'!r'rn
projects as road construction,
1\Jo . 67 R384'7
water and sewer construction, h o s p "i. 1. "' 1. !; , b 1 1 ·i. 1. cl i. n g ~; , s o o n i.'l n d !; o for·th, and tAlE:! borr·ow for those p u r· p n s e :;
P 1::~ r· h ,., p s I !; h o 11l. d no 1: h d lJ r-~ r11eni· ioned l.o~JatEH' and SE:~tAJer, ·i.tnpl.y""i.ng rnunici.pdl. r:1nd '>HIAtf!t', because that is a different t.hi.ng. Whdl: r: i:1nl gE:~l:U. ng o:1L, 1 guE:~ss, is thc-.d: any capital t.o~Jorks U1 a 1: i . s n o 1: a n r,Hl n u ,,, 1. E:' x ~·H~ n d ·i. 1". u r· e or E:~xpense:~ over· a period of time goes Lnto our capi.l:.r.1l. account and we borrow for those purposes.
Mr. Speakt~r. l:.h~~ Loan B·i.l.l has a cap on it that the House sets each y <~ a r ;:~ n d t h E! l o <.Hl b :i. 11 +: h L s y rd a r states a cap of $375,000.
MR. SIMMS: Thor·e trri.ght be~ r'Hl i.nb:H'(~St ·in using tha ten and ten debating liiC:~ChcHl i.SIII i':lS oppOS(?.cf 1-.o thi.r·ty o:1nd t h :.i r· t y . W o u 1 d y o u 1. :i k e to j u s t. i.ndtcr:1te "i.f that i.s agre0d?
MR. TIJI.K: Ye:~ s .
MR. S J MMS : i'lgr'E:H~ 1-.o l:r:!n r:-1nc:l ·1: r,' n bdr: !< r·1nd
and for·-t-h a~' 1: hi. r· I y .
oppOS(o~d to t.h:i r·t y
DR. COI..LT.I\JS : For· qu ::i te r..t number of years, b(:!causc,~ thE!r(?. · i.s t'E:~pedl·: ed possibil.ities of speaking in co mm .it. t. (;! C:! 1 IAJC:! h d v <o~ 1: ~~ n Clc:! d t. o 1. i.trri. t any onE! speaking turn to ten rn :i n u t e s . T h a t d o o s n o t. 1 n (o' iHl a member cannot have two ten minutes or· t:hr'E!<"! Ll"!rl T unde r stand
uri. nut c~ s we tJJilJ.
o r' tAl h a t ~?. v e r· . continue the
pract.i.ce for thr?. tAJher·e by rninutE~s
that hels bf~,·~n last numbers
IAie IJ.I j_l_l_ h r·1 V e r·ul e :in place.
i.n place of yE•ars
1-:h(!!' t-.en
Anyl.o~li:l.Y, thr:'rE~ :is b'i 1.1 dnd i· · h(,~
a cap on Lhe loan o rw c i r· c 1.11. d 1-. e d
1..3BliH JuJy ll, :19B8 VoJ XI
mentions $375 mi llion . However, IJH~ r· e r)ri. l J. b r:! I.Hl 1.~ I fiE'! nd rtHHll.: brought: in to r·educe that s o that- l.hE•re tAt -i.ll no ·1: b ~~ i:1 '!>] 7 r-; rn -i. 1. l i. on a b -i. 1 -i. 1·.: y to bororot.oll, it ~.o~til 1 bE:! r'E!dUcPd dulAin i:o 'noo mi.l.l.i.on. lhe hon. i·:hr:o Minister of FinanC(o' (Mr . W::i ndso1n), l.ll'ldr:.!r' l:: hl::' o'llli:hor· i l:y of l.as l: year 1 s LOf.ln Bill, and this :is quitE• in o r· tl E! r· , q u i. 1-. e p r· o p e! r I r ~=! c t~ n t l y concJ.udE!d a borro~.o~lirrg !::hat reduces, LhHrefor8, Lhe amounts that needs to go into the 1988 l.OC1r1 b.ill. .
The loan bill. again, this js not anyth i.ng n(~\AI 1 but the loan b·:i.ll. ··i.s an amount in addition to those · a111ounts 1-.:hi.'lt. t.o~H"!t'~:! bor·r·or.o~H:•d .in certain other forms. For i. n s 1~. i:\ n c (~ I r red s ur·· y B -:i. l. 1. s a r· e borrowed under another authority; bor·r·ot.o~r"ing~; From i~ hf?. fr"!dE!r·aJ. government are not included in the l.or:1n b i ll., i.'\nd that includes bon'OLJ.J:ings fr·orn thE• Canad:i <Ht P 1::~ n s i o n P 1. 1:\ n . T h r::! s r,~ i't r· r;! c o lJ P r· f'! d by oth(->.r <'.luthor·:itiE~s.
Jn add~lt:i.on, any cliTiounts u~><:!d to r·edr-~ntn 1-.h~:.' ottLsL:u1r:li. ng cl~~bl·. of l:: ht"! Province->., t.hese do not hav~=! Lo be ·i. n,:l. tldr-~r:l ·i. n Ult::! lr)i.Hl b ·i. ll. . ~:)o i·: l·lr:! Joan b:ill actually covers bor-ror~ti. ng~; for· Cdp ' "i. h~l. accounl-.s exclusiVE! of those amounl.:s I have rnr• n U.oned .
Mr. Ch<.·1"Lr·rnc\n 1 l do nul·: i.nl:: ('!nd l.:o go on at length in introducing the r· (~sol. u t ··i. on . T h (! r· ('• Hid y b H so Hit' questj ons come out of the mat. t. E!i~. Pnr·haps I could jusf: Si'ly l:h;:;tl: th"is particuJ.ar loan bi11, when it is t;1JIIf:!ndc'!d 1 d!> r lllto~n f.: inned I l::o $300 million, is approximateJy the same dS IAI~~ bor"t' OIAI~'!cl -in 1985, and approximately the same as in 1.9B6. l..dsl-. y(;•r:1r U1t:·r·f~ Wi"S a JargPr amount in the loan bill, d J. t h 0 II 9 h '1-: h 1·:! t' P lA I 'i, 11. b 8 d 1'1 1.1 n U S (:0 cf amount lAJ~dch will ]apsE' fr·om Jast y (:~"' r· I :; l.o i:\ n b :i. l l be c d 1.1 ~; ~~ I r•l ~; T
No . 67 R3B4-H
- i
s r.~ y , !:: h E! r· E! i. s a c cl p o n i. '1: , r:~ n d +: h e
cap was not r·eachecl. So "l:her·e was
not 1~.he full alflounl: of cluthor·i.ty
used. Anyway, this year's
clU thori t.y i.s about. t.hc,~ satnE~ ds IAH-?.
s atJJ in p 1 ace :r n 1 9 8 5 and 1 9 8 6 .
So jf it is agreeable to the
C 0 HHn i. t t e 0 I ~J.i l. 1 lll 0 u E-~ 1: hE?.
amendment now that the resolution
1-.o B i. ll. '1-5 br..~ arnE!ncl~:!cl by s t.r·.i. k·i.ng
out the t.uords and f :igures '$375
rni.l.l ·i.on • dnd by s11bs :.-.i 1-.u :. "i.ng r.h<-~
wor·ds and figures '$300 milJ:ion'.
[ S 0 HIO l)(:~ 1·_ h d 1-. dTIIC,' ndH!f~ n 'L c'l ~; IAJ<,~ ll.
a~; in-l-Toduu~ ·l his r·(-?.soJ uti.on.
MR. FIAKfR: rJ!r• . s p (,~ c'l k (:'! r· .
r-'IF~. CHAT Rr-1M.J : ThE:! hon. H1e mc,!mber· for· Gander .
MR. BAKER: Thank you, Mr. Cha~irman.
I t'!lll glad the M~i.ni.ster o-F Health
i_ s i. n t. r o d u c --i_ n g t:~ b i. ll. ·;_ n t: h (-~
absenCE! of the Mini st.er of Finance
becauSE! hE:~ obviously should bE~
very familiar with this type of
bill and know all of the details.
Ther· e ar,,~ '" f~:!IJJ cotmn~=!t'JI::s 1 t.uoul.d
like to make to him. First of
all., 1 unclr:=~r·st.i:lnd l:.hat t.hi.s nOlA! i.s
$300 million that_ the government
wants to borrow in addition to Mny
money which may be borrowed to
turn OlJer l'llOI·wy j_j--_ dlt"ei:Hiy OI•Jl,,~;.
ThJ s ls ~~ n add:i lion to the
T r (~<'Is 1.1 r·y b -;_ ll s , ,,, ~; h H h ,,, ~; "'J. r· <-:! "'d y
poJ.nt·E!d out. And this :in no IAJay
i. nc / ·i. C i:l 1:1:~ :; 1: he 1 () l:c:'\l. dniO II 1'1 : : C) f'
bOJ"t'OIAJJ ng for• the QOUE!r'I'ITTH:! rlt fot"
Lh~~ y::!.:H'. TI·Ji.~> ·i.~; l:ho 1-.nl·i·l_l.
dfllOl.! n-(- of I'IE~I.U bolni"OIAJirtg.
J t j ~; ~: o ITIE!W h i'..l t. s :i. ru :i l.iu· to UtE~
H y d r· o b -i_ ll tAli:~ d <::' "-' J. l: IAri. 1.: h r· P c 1-:~ n :: l.y
wher'E:! they ~tant.ecl $600 rnill.:i on of
rH:'I.U bor·roiAJ"i.ng, not coun1·.·-i_ng th(O!
L3849 July 4, 1988 Vol XL
..
!flO nE:~ y they hav~:· l~ o bor·r·o1..r.1 l:o pay
back money they already OWE! . So
t. h·i. s i. s $300 m.i 11. ton .i.n new
borrowing.
The minister says this is for
c a pi. i: <'11 on l y . T !J.JO n de r· ·i. f /·1 c,) t s
correct there. Does this give
cluthority to couer the projected
$40 million deficit undE!r cun'E!nt
acc:ounl-. c:'lS IAJ<::'l.l. or --i.s it pur·pl.y
for capital? I would be
interesl-.ed in the minister's
comments on that .
Tr 'LL i . ~; For· c.~p·i 1-. <:~l dl.one, I
IAIOUJ.d J.ikE! SOITIE' /dnd of dl'l
i:lccoltnl·.i_ng i:l~; l·.o ~~Jhdl: 1-.hE' money ·i.s
go :ing t(J bE:! spcc!nt on, IJ.lhe!l
~'fH)Ci.f·i_c f>r'oj pet~; : : h~-:~ i]Ol.Jer·nmenl~
hds in mind to spend the $300
11ri J.J·i. on 1-:! x 1·. r·"' c a Fd.'l·_ <'11 .
HowE~uer, be-?. that. as i-1: rrwy, th(:!
$300 million I would like to polnt
out to the minister, is in reality
still d new borrowing of $375
million this y t> ar. I do not t.uant
c:lnybody "i.n UJ"i.s Hous(~ 1-.o go i:~I~Jc:~y
with the impression that this
lll<::~dl1!> l<::!SS Ci~pit.C'Il. bot't'OI~Jing t.h i s
year, it does not . It still means
1-:hr.\1: l: he gov ~::n·nml:'!ni: i~ hls yea r i.s
borrowing on ca pi tal under the
;wt:hor·LI-.y of l: hi.s b-Ll1 , co,nbln e d
with unused authority from la st
y ei:H', l.S rlOI~I borTOIJJ .Ln g $375
million. So the amount of
bor·roiAJi.ng L; no1: be .i.ng r·eduu::'d.
The rJ!·i.n ·i :; ·l-or' or F i. n.•l nC(:O drll'lOl.lrlCE:O d
:in his budget !:hat:. last yE:! ar· thE·y
eli_ c:l n n I·_ 1'l <-:! 1-:~ d ·1: o b n rT Ul~l q 11 ·_-jl-- (;~ d ~;
much to cover current account cls
::h(!Y h•~ d .~~nL · ic · i.pd ·i:u c:l 11 nd 1·:hd1-- i~;
t.uhE:!r·e th<::! bor·t"owi ng authot"j ty IJ..JaS
l 1-~ f 1-_ 0 lJ e r• F r• 0 Hl l . i_., ~; 1: y l'! •'ll" , [ IAJO U l cl
J.-jke to po:i.nt out to -LhE:o nr.irdst~~r·,
to c n lJ t'! r· c 1 1 r· r· e n 1-. d r c o 1.1 n :·.: d '" f ·;_ c i. t . This is IAJhy I kj nd oF ques t.:.i on +.ho
:;l:i.-,h~lnPnl: ,,1: 1-_ h<-:' ~H,,y·i. nrdng H1at
lhis is pUrt:'lY capita1., b8Ci::tUSE! I
do no:: 1--.h·ink i·:.hei"H ·i!> <'~l'lY
No. 67 R3849
doi.st.i.nci~ ' i. on br:!tiAJBl'!l1 l~he cur'r'l'!n ·l·. and cap:i l:al boi'Tot.~dng :i. n that sensr:~, i. n l~f:'r·rn:; of author·-i.l:y. I C1 ~;i~ y (,! C\1" IAJB IAJE~ I" E! S h 0 r· ·[· J. n 0 U r· c 1 H'r' e n 1-. a c 1: o 1 1 n 1-. d e:.~ f i. c i. 1-. , 1: h c,~ r· e For e ·HIE~r·e '"tlJa~; cwthor:i ty lE:!ft for· •'Hlo l-.1'1~-:•r· $'1 S nri: ll. ·i.on, :; o l· h1-) M:j 11is1 c,~r· of F:i nance usr:H.:I that i.HII-.hor· ·ity fr·om ld:>i: y:~dr', ~~~~Hlt i:o Ja~'an, r-tnd bon·owc~d a fE~IA.J billion yr:!n tA.Jh'i.ch t:lifiOtlnh-~d i:o dbr.JIIi: 1i7''i ru :i J l:i. o n on J a ~;-t- y E:! a r· 1 s aut h or :i t y .
So J 1Al1Hih~d to make t:he point t.hat: 1:. h i. s n~ d u c t: i. on Uw rni. rri. s l·.nr· i . s doing now by IA.Jay of amendment is not r ~~ ctll. y •'l r· f'! d u c i~ i. on ·i. n borr01.~.Jing. We are borroudng exactly t.hr:~ sc\me auiOIHlt. It . i.s simply a transfer of the authority for the borrowing.
I would 1 i.ke H1P 1n.i.ni.s t·:r:~r to indicate before we finish with thi.s bill as well. to wht:lt level this w:ill bring our total pr·ov·i.nci.ctl debt .. Thdi ... is i:ll.I~Ji:1y~; cll'l intE!rc,~~d:i.ng figur·e and E:~ach y t~ ct r our· d t'! b 1·.: go r:~ s 11 p by $lf.OO rrdJJ:ion, $500 m:il.Lion, $600 rni.ll.i _on, $'100 rnil.l. ·ion, I~Jh;:1t~:~•Jer·. liiiP cH'e now g:iv'.ing e~uthor·ity for· d no 1: h •·H' $3 00 ud.ll. i. on , pl. 11 :; U11:~ $7 S rn:ilJ:ion lllP hi~V€:• a]rparJy l:wrTOIA.Jr~d 1·. h i. :; y t'! iH' , $ :·n r> nri. '1.1. ·i.o n . To ,~,1·1 ''' 1-. Jevc,~l tA.J:iJ1 thts br·:ing l:hc,! i. nd~)bl:<,~dnt~:;:; of l:h•-~ Pr·o•J ·i.nc~~ ,.,_ ·I thP end of this yE:~ar?
[ hdvc,~ HH,'Sf:~ J 00 k f OY'IAiiH'd
r'E!pl.y.
fl.;!IAJ to
cornttH:!nl-.s t:~nd T the mjnistE:~r 1 s
MR. WEL LS : Mr·. Speaker.
MR. CHAIRMAN (Greening) : The han. the Leader Opposition.
Mr~. WELLS: Mr~T,-a:Jrnlan, I l.llOU1d lik~' Lo i. t so Uw 1wi. n i s h;! r·
1.3 8 so JuJy lJ, 1988
of thE!
to add C Ol.tl. d
Vol XI
..
p r· o •ri. d <'' tJH~ d n s 1m,~ r :; . 0 n ~:) b:d:. t:• rn fHl t. One of the budget of course the g~~ner·,,,l. bor·r·ow"i.ng T't:'q'1 ·i r·r~monts for· t hE:' y E! cH' a I" e S E:~ t 0 U t . ThE! t 0 l:. i'l 1 b o r' r' o 1~1 i n g t' t} cp l'.i. t' E~ trtc;! n 1: i :;; ,;d-. $ 50 2 mi11ion.
Wou1d the minJster expJaJn First h I)I~J t h (,~ f ·i_ 9 1.1 t' 1-~ I) f '!)] 7 S I[) :i.ll ·i_ 0 1'1 lAid S calculated? We know how it got: r'l,'dll•:r,~d fr·orn <n7~i rni.ll ion l·o $300 nd11 Jon. The hon. mE!mi:H:~r For C ,,, n d E! r· (r"' r . fl d k e r ) j 11 s I~ n x p 1 <:\ i. n t! d that. You have already borrow8d ~~ 'I 5 trl i. l. l ·i. o n 1·: h :i. s y e "' r o n 1·. h e b a ::; i. s of the unused bor·rowing author:i ty 1asl:. YE'!dr. ~3o lAJE! knoiAJ hotAJ l~hal: got reduced to $300 million, but IAJO u l d 1:: h l,~ rrd. n l s 1: ~~ r· <.-H~ v L s E! the House as to how the figure of $375 rnill.Jon IAJas i.n fact det~:!r'trtoinc.;!d knowing that the total borrowing r e q 1.1 i. r· 1-~ 111 e n 1·: s for· L he y E'! ;;\ r' 'i. s $502,650,000?
MR. CHAIRMAN : T h 1-} h on . l~ he:~ M:i. n i. s i·. <'!I" of HE'! r;~ 1. 1-. h .
DR. COI.LII\JS: Mr. Che:d rman, to anSIAJE:'I" thE! hon. I: h P I 1:~ ;,, d e r· of l. he 0 p p o s i. ~: ·i. o n fir·st, as he rnenUons, thE• iotc~J b or· r· OIAJ ·i. n 9 r' n q 11 ·i. r· ''! HH~ nl·. ~; ,., r' e ~t> ~; 0 3 m:ill:ion appr·ox:irnatPJy, jus+.· usjn~~ r'OIIfldnd f·i.yttt'f:!'>. liOI~II'!IH!r, as T :i nd:i Ci:l'tE:!cf E.HH'1:i.€:'Y', IAJ(,~ do not hetV(~ i'. 0 i. 1'1 C: 1 I I rJ<.:! ·j 11 i h ~) l. I) <Hl b "(_ 1 l. u~r·ta:in th:i ngs.
W ~) r:l"i d n o 'i': h .:~ •H! t o · i. n c 1. u d l~! approximatE!J.y $46 mill:l.on that: 1.1.1e 1~1i.l.l. bor·r·oiJ.J fr·o1n l·:h~~ Cdndda Pension Plan, and WE! did not have l:o ··i.nclurlc~ i.n i.t dppr·ox.i.lrti:<~l:E!l.y $241 million which will be used for debt retirement, roll over debt essentially.
So tf you ~ake out those two amounts, the forty-six u.Je will bor'r'OIAJ fr·orn Cdl'1•'1dd Pr~ns t on and l::he $24.1 mil lion that will be a dE!bt r·r~qu . i.r'HHtnn·l-. l::h;:1.l·. The l. odn ()c:t dor:!s
No. 67 rnsr.~o
no!-. hdV(! l ... o incl.ucl!-), the t·o-1. i'..t1 l:wr'I''OIALi ng down L~ o $2 1 5 mi.l.J.ion .
l·.l'kd: b r· :i. n g s requirE!mE!nt
Hoto~Jc~V(:~r, r:\S hon. rn~~lnl:lHr's w··i, l,l
r'8a1 j ZE:~, some of our debt
r·e ·t i. r·e,Hne->. nt does no 1: t. a ke pl a c f:~
until t:hE! end of thE! year and if
'"'' e d oi. d no t d d d i n s o rn c->. am o u n t of flexibjljty, it means we would not
bH abl.f>. to cornpl.et::e o ur· borTol.~.ri.ng
program unt:i 1 the end of the yE!ar,
a n d , o f c o u r· s e , a t 1·: h a 1-. l·: ·i. rn e,~ ,
mar·kets m:ight: not be good, or
Ull~ rE:' 111ay be,, a c;.~ s h fl.orM n r-~ e d o r
IAJhi'ltevE:~r·. So, e:!V(:Hl though tak·.ing
o ut. 1-.hOSC'' dliiOI. Ini:~; Y':>.dll(!:' ~> OUr'
borrowi ng requirement t o $215 11ri.ll.i.o n, Ul!'!r't) i. :; ·Hlol·: hf'!t' $1.()0
urjJl'ion i'lddE->d i11 fo1n fJex:ib'i1lty
S 0 IAJ~:! C ;;H) bo r• Y' OIAI •.~ ·1: i-\1'1 y l .' i. lll!·)
d1n·j ng the yei:tr' and IAJC:! IAJ:i 1.1 not
h.··w e h ) 1.~1.d. l: 11 n 1: i. l. l : h!:~ (: nd of 1: h~)
yPi.'ll", IAJhen lo~H~ gpt· thE:! cwthor·:ity to
bot' r'CIAI on l·. h~:~ bd s ·i. :; oF clc,~bl :
r·e:!'(-it ·e'!ITIE-Hd.
I a s t y E~ iH', as I mE>. n t ion e d , t. her· e
IJJd S a CC:H' l-.c:\'i.n i:11fl0UI'll: oF bOt't' OIAJing
aut hor·:i ty not us~!d. As a matter
of f a ct , t: h e r· c~ I~Jd s $ 2 2 6 m J 11. ion of
Jast y ea r 's au t hority that was not
use d a nd i_ f yo u ta ke ou 1: t h e $7
rni J l i on t ha t wa s use d ea rl ie r i n
198 8, on t: h e basi.s o f last y et'\ r' s
l o a n bill , t h e r e is s t i l l a n
a p pr e c i. ft b 1 c:! a mo u n 1: of t he u rn.1 ~ ~~ d
i:l. u thori ty . So I a m qu ite s ur e we
w ll l no t use dl l. o f t: hat $ 160 flexib'ility we brought in also,
but. IAJH do hdV(~ t.o hr:iV (~ l~ hal~ .:unounl:
of fJ HX:i b:i 1 :i ty to completE:~ i:he
b cHT owi. n g p r· o g r' •:llfl .
Tn r·Pgr..tt·d to the,! dE~f ·.icJ t, YE!S, -t-hE!
hon. me111I:H)l" For· Gdnd~)t' ·i !;
col· -r-eo~ ci. trJhat J I~JCI S g8tLing D.t. , I
9 1 1~)5 :; , IJ.J;.I:> <)l .lt' C•:IP ·i. i:."\1. i;U: •: Ol i n 1: i.!;
rna:i 11 J y r-c:~s p o n~dble:: fo r- ou r·
bo r• r•o r~ri. ng fH' o gr'o:\ 111, b1 Ji : i.F I~JC·) do
ha v ~ a ny def:i d .i s o n t h e c urT 0nt
acc::oun l: , l:hc n ob •Ji.o u:;l. y '"''~~ h··l •Je l·c)
p :i c: k :it: u p on ou r· bo r-r o1.1d ng
I_ 3 B r> 1. July 11, 1. 98B \Jol. XI..
p•~ogr'dln •'1l.so, so HHH' E! :i ~; a Slllc1ll.
amount of the borrowing program
r<,~ ldi::co!d l:o def ·i. c ·i. l: f i.n a n c i.ng . In
that regard, I an1 surE! I do not
h d IH' 1-.0 t' (~I'll "i. r1 cl h 0 rl . In('! rrl ~HH' S !) f !:-. hE!
committee that in some previou s
yc~ ar•s IAICo' ha d s urplu s l'!S on c ur·r·(:!nt.
account and that dPcr'E!ased our
bot't'OI~Ji.ng r'l::!qu:i.r•<oHrlE:Hll::s Few capi.t:.al.
account.
In rE!gar·d to the debt, in Exhibit
S -i. n l ... h ~~ F S 1~. j _ Hli'l t: f:! S d 0 C LIIIH'! n 1·.: , 0 l'l
page XI, it ts laid out thE!rE!, the
public: S t:!r:l~or· clebi~, i.·.\nd ell': the e nd
of thi s YE!c~r for 1988, that
'i. n c: l1.1 d ~) s I: h <·) f '! ~; l ·. i rn i:\ 1 ... f'! cl <:11 no u n 1-. o F
borrow:ing that. IAICc' have bu·i]t :ir1t o
lhE:~ brid';3~)l : , 1 : h~) l:ol ·dl cli.r·· :c.c i: d e bl~.
IAI ~i lJ bE:! ctppl"OXirndteJy $4 bj l,}j 01'1 .
Thpr·:~ ·i:; i.'1l:; u ~ > u•ne cunLingen+·.
debt, j t j s r~' D-1.] y not. a debt of
i:h::! Pr· ot.J · i . nc ~) ;:\:.; !; rr c h d nc:l 'i.:; l. ·i. ke l.y
1.ui1J not bE:! paid back by Lhe;!
Pt· o v 'Lnc:e . T I· i_s coni· i.ngc-!! ni: i_n
t ha t we gu a r antee it, but j t. il>
unl i. !o) l.y i: hal: H . nc-H~d be pdi.d back
by t he Pr o v :i nee, j t r:an be paid
b .~ ~~ k b y C r· Qum c: or p o r· a 1: i on s and s o
on, wh ic h a r e acti u e and operati u e
~ n cl r e ,;~ 1 1. y t' e p <:\ y i . n g 1: h e i r· d e b t:
e a ch y e ar. T h e r e j s another $1 . 7
b i l l. ·ion i. n i: h<At-. CC)nt. i.ngent d~:,bt: .
So Uw t o l:i:\ l. p u b 1 :i. c s e c 1.: o r cl E! b t ,
which is net of sinking fund s - we
hc.·Wt-'! cE~r·t.r.d.n amounl::s oF money put
aside in sinking funds to tak e
Ci:lr'e of d1:!b ·l~ d S it b E>.C Olne s du t! -·
net of sinking funds, t:he total
p u b l :i. c s e-'! c l·. or· cl ~ '! b ~~ i s '1> /l . . 6 b i. 1. l. i o n
approximately at t.hto! end of th is
lj ::! d t' .
MR. 11AI<FR : r-Jtr· . C h ;ri. t ' lllH n .
r111~ . CHATRM~I\J :
Theo\ hon. t:h~~ mernb(!r' For· Gander· .
MR . RAKFR : rh.Hlk yor1, r~r· . Chd ·i r·rrli:Hl .
1\Jo. 67 :nas1.
I wou]d Jike to deal with a couple of ol-.her' points, orlC"! or' I·.IAJO of t hc-!m r·ai !i E:'d by thE.' mi rd s ter h :i. !fl s ~~ l f . T l·lf~ rn-i. n i s i': E! r p o .i. n 1-. e cl o 1.1 1: thnt J nst yE~ar· therE:' t~Jas sti J 1 r'Oflldin-i.ng aui:hori. -l:y !-or· lo'hi·: y P cH' . T bE:! J i e v E:! hE:! in cJj c atE:~ d l he <:JOlH~rnlllf'!tli: I.~Ja:; short-. $/.00- -odd nriJUon Jast YE~i:tl", so $7S mnl:lon Ci:1111~~ oul: of ·ii:, :;t) l:hrH't,~ ~;i:i. ll. ·i. :; $ ] t; 0 m :i 1 J :l o 1·1 au t !·1 o I" :i t y 1 (,~ f t f ,~om l.i:lSi: yt,~dt'. DO~'S 1.:hi·1l: IIH~·Hl 1-.IH~ govE~I"I'IfiHHd. can, w:i thou-t: corning bdck Lo l : h~~ Ho11sr.~ .:-lgr:\i.n, bor-ro,,.J i'.lriOthE>J~ $4•50 ITl:i.ll:ion b<->.CCIUS(,~ thE! aut.hor·i. l:y ·i.:; Lh ~~ r·e no'"'' For· dn <-..x-tr·a $E10 ndJlion, ovE:1r and clbove this $100 million?
If l:hal: is SO, it. IAIOI.Il.d i.nd ·i.cat.H to me the Mird s ter of Finance i.ntends to us1,1 that oi·:her' $1':>0 million. The reason I say that is a Vt·H'Y st-:~nsi.bl.E~ and l.ogi.cal. one, we needed to borrow $75 milljon r' t~ c P n 1: l. y so 1:: h E:1 111 i. n i. s I~ t:! r' ,,.ll;! n t off :i.n the Japanese market and bor'r'OIAll:1d '!l7S tn.i.l.l.i.on, undPr authority from last year. Then he c o r' r' ~'! c t. P d h ·i. s b i. 1. l. b 1J a s k :i n g f o r· $300 mjJlion instead of $375 tni.l.l. i.on.
Ii: Sl;!(!lllS l.o me i·:hr:\1- i.F l:hr,, rn j rd. s t. P 1'' h Cl d 1'1 o n E:' E:! d of t h a t o -t h E:! r· $1. r;o 1ni.l.l.-i.on, he ~~JOII-Id h;we cHIIE·!rtdEHi th<-! bill at Ud.s poini· lo r·oad $1SO rni.l.l.i.on, :;ubl-.r'i·1t:l : l:ht-:! 1~1hole Hdng bE:!Ci~US~1 HtE:!r~~ i~; $1SO 111 ·i.l.l. ·j 1)1'1 oHii:hor• i. i·.y io1lt'P•'1dy E~x:i~:t-:lng. Tf hE:! on]y ne<,'dE:ld r.l no i··. h t! r' '!> 1. r, 0 111 i. l.l. i. on , •'lll. lw 1~10 ul cl I'IPE:!Ci :.i.s $300 m:ilJ:ion bot"r·owing au t.hor·i Llj' :3o' :i.:; UH'!r'E! rHlY ard: i c:l pated nE:H:!d of that E:1Xi:ra $1.50 mi.l.l.-ion bor-r-owi.ng aut.hor·i. t--.y left over from Jast year?
I IAIO u 1. d a l. so d s k thE~ m-i. n 'i. st. t>. r·, 'i. n connE!ct.ion wtth this, and he is a g o o d o n e i: o t: a l. k bJ i:'l b o u t t: h i . s , L s therE:1 any borr·owing aut.hority left ov~>.r' frorn Prl'!V.i.ous I.Jt"!dr· s? HCHAJ
1.3 8 52 July 4-, ]988 VoJ XL
long can this continue? Is thE!re r'trllj borr'OIAI-i.ng r"\UI·:hOt" ·i l·.y left tWer' from three or four years ago which Ci:\i'l r::tl.~;o b~) clr',~IJ.Jn llflOI'l? [1'1 ol-.:ht"r' IJ.Jor·ds, I arn trying to 9E:1t my hc.H1ds 011 hoi;.J 11111t:h ·i·.hi. :; gotJE!t'nrrtr~n'l- i. s capnbJ e of going out <Htd borr'OIAJ:.i ng 1)11 Ult·) b •. ,:;i_~; or Ul'i !> b -.i. l.l., IAJhi.ch says $300 rrdJJ:lon. In i-lCtUi-..1] fdcl-., ht)IAJ nJIIC:h lfllH't·:: ·i~; tlri.s gov~H'I'IITIE:!nt Ci'ipabJ E' of go:ing out ilnd bor't' OhJl ng '"ri.l·.hou 1: Ft.tr' 1-:.hr:•r' recourse to the House of AssembJy?
The mjnister mentionE!d somE'! YE!ai"S i:het'f~ l!li:lS Sl.lt'pl.IIS o_n Cl.lt't'f:!rl'i:. account, but as tht::1 m:i11-.istE!1~ IJJeJ.l knoiJJS, for i .. _he J.dsl-. four· or' f'i.ve · years, of course, thE!re has beE!I'l no "i. ndicai::ion of sut'plus on current account. That d:i.sappE•iH'E!d back Ln l~he uc.u·l.y 1980s, l::h~:' i.ck!a of surplus on current account. We hope that it does not di.sappear entirely. We hope tJJithin thE:' nE•xl: f E~IAI y P d r' S IAJ(,~ IJ.J i.ll. 9 (! i:. b d C I< I~ 0 d surplus position on current •'I r: co 1 1 n t , b 1.1 -1-: i. I~ c r:• r' t. ct i. n l. y doe s no 1:: look like it this year .
I wo u 1 d 1 j k e to i-l s k thE! m i n·l s t. E! r' abt)ltl·. J·.hr~ Ji.·1P··lnr;!SH l.odn. Tn l··h i. s c Cl s E:' , j t i s p r· o b a b J y u n F o r· t u n a t E! i:hi.~i: i.i'l(! t ' l·)r'l.l. r'hn·i,>h·:!t' of F:i.nr:HlC(,' :is not hE:1r·e . Jam jntE:1Y'E~sted I~J h c-~ i: h t·:• I '
l"i'.d s :i ng r!) t' c,' i. 9 11
i-h;:l'i· .. L·1fli'tilt·~~;t-~ l o.:Hl, of thE:! Joc.H1 involvE:'d
tJXChi:11'19f:' t :o nl:r'dCI : ~;
l .. hf:• any
TI-lt-:! ntt:!tllbPr' fot ' Si .. .John'~; 1\Jor· t·.h ( M r· . J . C a r· tE:1 r ) J a u g h s . H e k n OIAI s f~Xi:lt:l-.l.y l!thHi·: l ·. hi.s .. i. :; i·lll. dboul: .. He knoiAJS hOIAI easy :it :is to J osp nli.J.l ·i.on:; of dol lr:~rs in d ft'!IJ.l days on a for·Pi.gn exchangE• contr·act! ~) o my q 1.1 c,' s t 'i. on i. s -·
MR . J . CARTER : On a poi. n 1- oF o r·d e r, Mt' . C h;r.i. r'tlli:Hl.
MR. CHAIRMAN: A point of order, thE! hon . the TIH~mber for St. John's Nor··l·: h.
No. 67 R38S2
MR . .J. CARTFf~:
T thought we l ed d t ha t ghos t on e
IJ E:!•.H' . ·~go , l:tJ.IO y e • .u·:; r.lg o . ( 1: 1.:.;
wr· o ng fo r- t h E:! me rub e r for· G~ nder
(Mr· . Aa k c:H· ); i. t i. :> mtshhH:Ii.ng ~: h e
Hou se. Th:i s is my poj nt o f order I
i. 1.: i. s 1 n i. s l E?. '" d .i n g i:. h (:~ H o u s E?. a n d ·i_ 1-.
is wrong for the member for Gander
and i. t :Ls 1.urong For· any JrH~Inber· to
suggest t.hat any money was lost,
s to l e n o r· s t r· '" y E:! d b ~?. c a u s E~ o f t h d t par··U cular· adventur·e j n borrowj_ng I
which I think was no adventure.
It was very, very carefully
S~?.CUt't?.cf .
Now I noticed that t he present
Jctpanese Joan for $750 mjJJion yen
. -- s omt?. ex i·: ri'lord ·i.l'li:H' y l'liJllllH,H' of y (:' n
·that t.UOI" ks out to $75 mil] :.L on
c d n '" d -i. d n ·i. s r· t~ p i:l y .:~ b l f:' ·i. n ...
MR. flt)KFR : SE:~VE'nty-- fllH?. rn:i llion dollar·s .
MR. J . CARTFR: s e:~ t; en I: y f ·i_ tH' rr,-i. l. l i. o n do .l l ;,n· !; • r •:WI
:. o l'T y · :i s I" E~ p r..t y i'l b l E?. j n C a n ad j r.l n
doll.Hr' s. so th.:~ 1: l .: h1,~ yun 1:r:1n do
tAihi'..lt it Jii<E:~ s ctnd thE:~ ArnE?.r:ican
doJJ.dr COI!}d Hnci d .J. d I•Jhctl ·. i l: l ·ikc::~cf
and i ·t made no diffc-:!rence to our
1->. x p o s IH' (:~ d n d 1:. o t. he a mo u rli:. Hk11-.: t•Je
hetd to PCIY back . That ghost t.uas
l<'li.cl l:.wo IJl:~i:H'S ago and i.t should
remain laid.
Evt-H' Y t-. i.tne the 111 ~1 nbe r· br i. ng s i. t
up , J am go i ng to g et up and
obj Hct bHca use t t h l nk Fd r too l ong me mbe r· s o f Ud s Hou se hav e
sa t q tJi.el: l. y by u.1h il.E:1 t.h e HH) St:
o u t r a g eous stateme nts wer e ma d e
f r· o 111 t h t~ o 1:. hE;~ r s i . d P • N 01~1 • IAH:~ ,;n· P
so u se d t o it , t hese ou t rag e ou s
stat.e rne n i:s pi:U>s i:\ l tnos i: u nno ·l: i.c!:'l d .
But I t. h ~n k ~it :is Cl rnista 1< c,1 a nd a
f ii'\1 11. 1: <:H t d J: t-. hi n !< ~~J(·) c: an •1 n c:l
sho u J d b E:! !~eve r'E-1Jy r.r·it:icize d for
nol-. geU-.ing 11p i.n !)lit' pl<·u>:!; 1-.o
obj c-:!c-L ever·y ·! : i.rnE~ :it hr-..tpp c-~ns and
T , for' o rH) , t>~ r· I: i-\ L n l y 1~r i. l l .
1.31!'~3 J11l.y IJ, , 'l 9illl lJul X I
MR. fl:'H<f-1< : To thai: point. of or·der, Mr .
Cho~\"i . t'HkHl.
Ml<. CHAIRMAN : To that point. of order, thE:l hon .
the IIWtnbf:~r For c,uld(.~r·.
MR . BAKER: Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman .
I wcwld like to say that Lt.Jhat we
hecH'd fr'OHI UH,~ hon. l.:hP nH,~Hti:H~r For
St . John's North (Mr·. J. Carter·)
·i. s ;~ l.oi·: of hogt~Jd s h, b a lder·cla s h ,
and anytl·dng elSE! that you cat"e to
c '-" ll ·i. 1-: . H E;l s d y s i t-: i s r· E~ p a y a b l. e
i n Ca nad i a n dollars , b ut the
membe r· krH)uJ:> full. ~ ~ ~~)1. 1 . t:hd 1: .i.n
ord er to g o o v e r there and g et $4.
b i l. 1 ·i_ on y :~ n, a 1: :; om~) poi. n !~ vH:.! h;it v e
t o ch ang e :i.'t into CCI.netdian
do ll.i:H':; . TIH)t ' !,1 h·'l l> i:o be rlrl
e x ch a ng ~ CCir-r:ied oui.. a nd it :is :in
l:h •·) proc 1-):>:> of GiHTyi.ng oul: l: l'lr1 t
e x c h a ng ~ :i n o r·d e r·J. y s hq:J!-1 -l hat we
9 •-:!1 : "i.nl·. o i . h ~) :; h or·l·: l.c.H' rrt for·w;:u·d
e x c hang e co n t r i::lcts that t h is
9'> v I·H' I'IOH:.Hl l: 1. o v 1-:1 :; l:o use • cl r:~ cl r 1. y
1 ov t::ls to use! T h ey d o not like t0
I.ISl~ t : h ~) l o n g -- b:n·rn fon~J<.H' d exc hange
co n t r acts an y more. That is
s upp ost~ l: o gi. v~ so tn~~ prol:eci:i.o n .
T h e y d o not wa n t p rotection in the
long b:1 r m, t he y want. pr·ol: ecti.on in
t he s hort t erm, ov er a p e r iod of
three or four days.
MR. J. CARTER : lh' f~ you suggf~s t ing ( i. na Lid 'i. ble)?
MR. Rrli<ER: If the ITIE!rrtber· i s s uggE• s t.ing, Ml".
Ch di. r·nkHl, L h ~?. r'f:~ i.s n o p oss ·i. b i. li. l: y
of gain or Joss her·e, I t~o uld
poi.nl: 01.1 1': to h ·i.m l: h i.'lt-. t: h e
gover·nrnc->.nt ilTIJTlE;~d:iah>.J.y d E:' clal" PS
i:lnl) gH ·i. ll!> ·l·_h!;:y nto:1kl:~ in 1--. hose
c:ir' C:UTIIS-l:artCE?.S, but IAJhE~I'I IAI(! d cli" E!
men 1-: i on i·_hf: t' l·) rrr i. q h :: b e ''' l. o s s .
they g et qui i.e u pse t Mr.
C h •. d . r'mi·li'l • l : h t-:: n:: ·i :> r· ~'' i·l ·1. -, y no p o :i. n 1:.
of or dE~ r· . ·r he mE~ rn b Pt" -.:i . s j u s l
1\Jo . (i 7 rn as 3
flapping his gums .
MR. CHAIRMAN : To f·. h a t. p o ·i. n 1-. o f no point of or·der.
MR . J. CARTFR : r:l no 1··. h ~~ r p o ·i. n 1: Ch~:~irruan.
MR. CHATRMMl :
o r· d <-?. r I 1-. h e r· t~ ""i.s
0 r or'dE!r I fJir· .
(.) m~tAJ po:i nt of Ol'·chn· I th<-'! hon. thE:~ Jlll:'liii:Ho't' l-or· Sl .. John'!; Nor·l·.ll.
Ml~. J. Cr:lRTFf~: 11-1r'. Ch<~d I"TIIcii'J, ·thE:! lTIE:!mb<·H' for· c .:l n <.1 H t' ( M r· . a a k f:! r·) i. !) c: () n r II s ·i_ n g tAJhcd Hw OE:!par·tm~HJt of Fini:lnc<-?. dor;!S. T'hl'! l)r,~prH'i".liWnl·. or F:i.ndl'lC:l-~ ~:ornet-.irnE:~s has to rtJake repayments i.n for•:.:,·i.gn CUrl"OtlCy eHlci l : h<~y lAid l··.ch the fore:!ign currency rnar·kets c a r· E~ f u 1 l. y s o H1 .:~ t Uw y c a n purchase ·l:.his foreign curr·ency at !::he tnost fa.vour·abl~~ rab~ i.n or·der to ruake the necessary payments that. Lh~)Y rnus 1·: lfli:lke. Thdl: is quite different from borrowing a g i.ven dtnounl: of money i.n Canadi.dn funds. He knows tha-I::.
MR. CHr:liRMMJ: To t:hi'.lt point of or·der, ther·E:~ is n o p o .i. n 1- o F o r· d l:' r· .
MR. TIJI.K : (.) po:i.11 t of pr·J v:i legE:!, Mr· . Cha::i.r·man .
ri!R. CH r:l T RMM.J: ThP hon. thP OIE'!lllb<-~r for· r ogo on i'~ po 'i. nl: oF pr··LlJ'Ll<:!ge.
MR. TIJI..K : T I 1 P C h a j r· IAli:l s r· :i g h +- t: o r· u] <~! l. h et t Lher·~) is no po ·inl: of or·dr-:!r'. Th~~ i l"lJi h of thE:! miotl~.bH' :is that the hon. gr~nlJ. elllc:ln i. s i:lbU~>i.ng 1-.hH p r· i u i] f:' g <-?. s of t h :i s H o u s e by u s :i n g po-Ln~s of order to carry an ~ d~::~bat~~ t.uhen, :in actual fact, the Chai.r hr:1s r'E~cogn .i.:zed l:h~-:~ Tflf~Tflbf:!t' for Gander·. I tAJOuld point out t.o ti·H~ ChaJr·rnan t.hd l:. i.f Lh(;! hon.
I 3 8 54. JuJy 4, 1988 Vol XI.
gentleman wants to speak, thE!re is a pl. r.u; ~:~ for :i. t iHl d he c an r· i s e i. n his place immediately after the Hlf:~mb<-:H' for CandiO!t' has sat dotAJn. 1 would ask the Chair that every 1-. i.me Hw hon. g~Hll:lurnan r·-i.sE:!S :i.n h:i.s p]ac<-?. to mal<<;• l:.hosE• spur·:i.ous p 0 ·i. n 1: ~; 0 r 0 r· ( I H r· I I. 1'1 i:l L y () 1.1 r· H () 1'1 0 u r· ask h:im to take h:is place.
r·-11~ . Cl·lr:lJRMM.J : ThEH'<->. is no point of pl"iu:i.J f~9f:! .
MR. J. CIHHfl~: To l·. hHi. poit'il : ol-' pr··i (J'i . lE~g(~~ r·~r· . Chcd l"ITICirl .
MR. CHAIRMAN : T h ~~H' ~~~ i. s no p o 'i. n I: o f p r' -i. u i.l ~=! g ("! •
MR. J. Cr:lRTER: I would merely respond that if one sil::s t.dnt<'!l.y •':\nd qu'i.ei-l.y by IAJhi.l.e the most outragE!OUS statE!rnents are Hli.~ do , in our· c ul. t u r· e , s ·i.l. <~' n c e represents consent or is taken for consent. There agr·eement to s tr:1. h.~lfle n r. s t hi'\ 1-. the t.uay, ne1uer!
MR. BAKER: Mr·. Chairman.
MR. CHAIRMAN:
·is no the
COnJE:'
constHll- or· outrageous
fr'OHI a C t'OS S
UH:! hon. U1<:• rnmnb~H' for· Gdnrk!t' .
MR. RAKER: Th•~nk YOII I r1r'. Ch.:·ci.r'l'lldl'l I For· r· u J i n g UH:! r· e :i s no p o :i n t- of or'df:!r'. T knHtAI l:hf'!t'n l~ld~; nonu Fr··o111 thE:~ beginning. 1 i<rH~IAI the mE!rrd:)E!r d 'L d nol ~ r'(·)i·l-l .ly undc!r·s ·l·dnd I~Jh':'ll- he w~s talking about.
To fin:ish up, I say Lo thE:' M 'i. n i. s h:! t' o F 1-1 f:~ .:~ l :-. h , i n c i't s e h e h ,~ s forgotten in this little exchange, r hdt)l:~ i:lsked l·ri.ln about: t:he rernajning authority frorn last year·, and fr·orn pr'f'!V i.ous y~:!i':H'S. I have asked about the forward ex c hr'lngc~ con l::r·e~.c 1-.: s i'lnd 1-: h (,'
No. 67 R3854
J .:1 p r'l n f:~ s e l o ,J n .
On~~ rllt'l·.l·wr· poi.nl·.: f)o(~S Lhn
rn:i1d~;tt~J" knolAJ offhc~nd IAJhat our·
s hor· 1: - l: ~:~ r·rn FH~:; i l.'i.o n IJJ 1:1~> 'i.r1 h!r'Jn :;
of !;hor·t- ·te r·m ·j nves t rnE:!nts at the
~=~nd of Mt.H•r. h oF Ul'l:> !/(:'! at·? Thd l~
wc.HJ J d again g :i u e u s a 1 itt J e
b(~ 1:1-:er· i .tlea of t he a.Jnot.ml ·. of money
WE~ ar·e talking about. here because
i 1: lllc\kes d d i.ffer·<::nce whwl:.h~?.r'
there was $100 million in
shor·t-l: er·1n i.nu1::st:lrH>.rrt:s dt l::he end
of March or $300 or $400 rrdl1ion.
nn~t makes a cl'.iffet·enc<->. i.n the IAJdY
l.ol.le look at it. So I i'.lsk hirn if he
could g i.ut:: us l·:.hr:-ll-. :infor·ma ·l:-i.on :i.f
he knows :l t offhand and j f not,
() b u i. 0 us l y I h t~ IAJO u l d h d v 8 r. 0 l,r.lr'l 'i 1-. d
day or liAJO, or· g Pt s ornE:~ body ·t.o
look up t.he ·i.nfor'lrtdi: ·i.on.
MR. J. CI1RTFR : Mr. Chcd. r·man.
MR. CH(Lf RMnN : (:; i-.h i.s r.l poi ni: of or•d,,~r·?
MR. J . Cl1f?TFR : No, :1 IAJ:.isl1 to spt:i'lk .
MR. CHAJRM()N: TI·H~ hon. l·.h,,~ rrJPIIIbl,~r· for· Sl:. John's
NoH· h.
JI.1R. J . CARTER: Thc\n k you, Mr . Ch;,, ·i. r'Jn.:~ n .
T h ("! p 0 i. n t. T l.\1 r:Hl l. t 0 m cl k E! I M r· .
Che:dr·man, is that I l.ol.lould argue,
a n d T t h i. n k rn e HI b l-?. r· s o p p o s i 1: E~ rn i. g h t
puen be inclined to agree, that
Lhe di.stinction between cdpitctl
funding and cur-rent expe:ndi ture j s
lar'gl.::1y a f'i.guHHd: .
(n olh1":r· IJ.Jor·ds, i.f the-~ l.f::dciE!r' of
., .. ,.,E,: Opposition lAJi'lnt.s Lo gE:~t his
off·j CE:~ t'f~fur·b i.!>i'Wd IJ.J"i.l'.h •Hllf dlliOIII'li'.
of flH'I'I:it UI"E:l, (,1UE:!I'I C1 rnodE:'S l:. i'.Hnount
oF ftlr·n'i.l".llt'~~ for· h ·i. s ofFi.c1-~, t·l·ktl:
:.l!; c:or1s::i<h:r·E!d l.o bE:' cap·jt.i!ll,
1.11h r,1 r• c,1 d :; i. f h c-:! tJ.kl n 1: !:; 1: n h ·i. r· e i·l n
I ;qp·> >, Ju]y t;, 198H Uo] XI
:-) x 1: r· i.~ !; (,, c r· ~) l ·. d r· y , l·: h '·'' I: ·i. s
considE>.r'E:ld cur·l"c,:nt: . No1.11, I do no t
, .. ,,~i :l l l.y !;1-)1'! -J-.h1-) rl·i.s 1·. "i.nc I-. "L on bt:! t:~.~.ll:!en
thE~ two i'.lnd I would argue l..hat
·1·. h f! r· ~) i. ~; no r· ''! ,.,, J. II "i. s t. i. n c 1-: .. i. on
between the two types of
e x p e nel -L ·1·. 1 1 r· ,,1 , c r-1 p i. t·. d 1 v E': r· s u s
current.
There is no doubt about :.it., if !Ale
IAJer·(~ l:o c-?.rH:Jdgf>. upon ldrge scale:1
power developmen t, or we were to
en gr.~g e upo n a l awge $Ca1e ~l"igh1A1ay
dev e lopment, that that could
properly be called capltal
expenditure, but in t he case of
d .:~ y to ch:~ y r e pl.ace rnent of
so-called capital work s, I do not
t: hi. n !< H1 c:~l~ H 1"' l: c ,1 n or s h o IJ 1 d be
called capita]. expenditure.
Therefore, tn my uiew, and thE!
0 p p «> !>"i. l: ·i. o n s h '> 111. d 1. o IJ e Hli s , H 1 e
so-called deficit :is mu ch larg er
Hlal'l i:lpp~~i:H' :> ·i.n ·t : h~' R1tdg0 t. T
t.hirll< H :is b J :i ndfoJ d:i ng i..he deu :i 1
·i.n l : h~) cliu·k i:o SLIY'.!J'·~~; L l ... h<:1l--. IMe
t.ol.lou)d E-lver·, E:~VC:'r conie closf.! t.o
':3<:~ l:·i :· i ny '-" ~;IJt'pl.lt! ; , IIIIIch l r.:!ss
br·eaking even on CUI"r·c::nt account. .
ltJ I·~ l'l ~) IHH' hi:\ I) e , b !~ C: .'II. I S ~~ e U C.:H' lf y t.;l cH'
sj n ee I hr.tve been l.llatch:.i ng ·the
fludg'·~ l ·. , i:\tlr:l Un.~ l : ~~1011ld ce r•l: d:ln1y
be now about twent y - t wo or
'~ '~"~ n l: y - 1: h t' '~ ,.~ y ea t':; s i . n c e t h a u <::1
been watching the Budget closel y ,
hi:lVf~ IAIE' C~l)c,~r COlli(~ cl.OS(~ l:·. o a
balanced budget . We have always
been at least $100 rnil1ion out,
euen when the former Liberal
cl d I fl"i. n i . s -r. r· d l.: i. 0 n l:: 0 () k () f r i. c e . T h e
amount of shortfall has varied.
If you deJ.ve into the quitE'
d-i.si::dnr 1950s, COIIl.d
euery yo"i.ng course,
pas!·:. bdck -i.n lhe c::;:~r·l.y
il was just possjble we
hr'lVI'! hdd d. bdlclncecl budg(~ l:
year·. Our· rE•uenuE~s IAJE·r·e
11p <:11.1. Uw +: ·inH'!, bul·: , of
OlJr' E:~XpC,!I'ld:itUrE! !AidS go:)ng
fdsi·.l·)r'. lf- 1:111'! fOI''IriOr' I I fl (! I) c,~ 1'1
govel"nmE~I'Il.
•; h01.11r1 j II!; J-.
admini.str·a-t :ion held i:\ l . i.l:l ·.l,,: bi.l· 1)f Ci:lr ' O
No . 67 rnass
anrl caution, if they could have delayed some of their expenditures p r· o b a b 1 y f o r· l. ~=! s s t h a n '" y e <'H' • they would have found that they woul.rl have ended up each year, with not necessarily a surplus. c ~=! r· t ,., i. n l. y t..u i. t: h a r· r-~ d 1. bell. an c r~ ov~~ri:i11, if you were,~ to combine t::h(~ SO - ··Cr;l"J.](:~c:f Cdp-i,t .• :·lJ. r:1nd i·he so- c~Jled current.
:I just thJnk ::i.t is a p:i.ty thc-.lt. tAle hdVf~ noi·. Ill·:~ i.ni ·_;,d.rwd l: hr'll:, bi-:!Ci:liiS~~ th~! CO!;'t· of !i~H'Vid. ng OUi~ dE:>bt J.S r·oughl.y :>.qtti~l. 1-.o Uw s.:~l . ~-:~~; ·l·;~.x. ~'io, jf IAIE>. hc.Hi nli'J.ndged OUI~ cAffaji~S p r •!) fl (' ! t•l_ Y .'( 1'1 cl IAri. S 1:~ l. Y i·\ rl r:l C d t' I·~ r I t'l_l_ Y dl'ld pr·udE·!i'd .Jy, of COlH'SE:~ WE:' hiild IJf:~ry li.U·.l.1,~ d1o ·i. 1:e ·in "1.9'72 l:>r-:!c.··utse tAle took ouE>r· cl nightruclr·e for· tJJhi ch IAit' had i:o bot't'OI~J jus!-. i:o kt:~E!fl out• hei:ids ~bove water, iilnd we have not r·e,:.l.J.y ~)(,~1>.11 r.1blf.! i:o c;;~b:h up.
TI·H~ dr:~Jnag~-:~ I~Jas done b<:lck in l·:he Smallwood era. The cost of SHJallwood 1 s Fool.ishness i. s now t-.hrc>. sales tax. The sales tax that we pay ever·y day of 12 per cent can i:iJl be laid at the door of the former administration . Tt would be very easy to argue that and very hard to disprove it.
~~0 , t~ U r:H' y t: -Llile HI('!Tn~lE! r S p t:-1 y t h l:~ "i.r· 12 p8r CE:Hlt, thE:~Y are not paying -i. I~ to C l. y d !-:' , 1·: hE:~ y 11 r· 1,~ p ;:~ y .. i. n g i. 1: bE~c~u5e of JoE:!y .. Of cour·se, I shudd1:n· l:o i·:l·dnk IAJhdl: IAJOiiJ.d hapfH~n :if Si:J.Y :.oru~d· jrnf:! ·. in the,! T '~' (,' n i : y · -F ·i. r· ~> l: c 1:~ n I: 1.1 r· y Ut e p t·) o p l. rc~ o 1-Newroun<.il.and !;hould EWc->.r· go back l:o U11-~ l . ibc•t'dl. f>;u· l-.y br!Ci·lll~>~·:: ·i. l: IIJOU]d bE: just fiiOI''(-' of ·H1P SdfiW.
MR. FFi-ORO : Mr· . Chc.l".i nuan .
MR . CHATRMAN : r h (:~ h C) n . Ul I;! Till::~ Ill b ~! r· f C) r· p cH' 1: cl 1,'
Gr·dve .
!"1R . F.FFOfW :
1.3856 July 4-, 1988 Vol. XL
Mr·. Chr.ti.t'lllrHl, T do no 1-. l'.:h i.nk T wi11 take up the ten minutE•s, but there is a point that the hon. gentleman for St. John 1 s North (Mr·. J. C<:H'h'!t') jus!-.: HIC\d~~ about the sa1es tax I find very i.ni:E~r·*~si::·i.ng bE~cause no gov~~r·n111E:!nt in this democracy CiHl opE•ratE! IJI :i. 1-: h 0 II 1·: i:l S d l. t'! S 1'". i·i X . ll'" :i. S V E! t' y unfortunate,~ that IJJe as a ProvincE' h d IJ (:~ 1·. o i.l rc:! I: h 1,~ h-i. g h t'! :; t. t d x e d percenliilge-wise in Canctda, and i ·. h i:\1" i. ~; b I'! c ;,, I I !) I·) I) r d n u Til !:)f:! r· 0 F r· E~ i'.l sons . That j s I:H'! c au s t:' of (I u ,~ I·~COi"ll)llJ'i. c r:Oi'H'i'i. l :"i.Oi'l!) i. n l::hl'' P r· o v :i n n~ .
AN l-ION . MFMRER : 111. b 1-~ r' "1: i:l d o l-:~ :; 11 o L h H v H iHl y .
MR. F.FFOIW: A J be r t iii d o e s not rH:~ e d :i l.. , b u t t. h e y ·'' t' c:~ v E:' r· y f n r· 1:: u n ;_., t r,~ "' c u u p 1 e o f years ago to get the rE!Venue frorn HH~ () i. 1 rHl d h 0 p !':' f ul J. y s Ulfl(' d (:0( y I~Je may be in for that sall'IE! s :i.I::Ur.l t:i.un .
But 'i.f U1e ac 1:. i.ng Moi. n i. s t. ~~ r· of woul.d anst.~..IE!r it bri.ng s to tax situation
Finance (Dr. Collins) l:hi:; quC!sti.on ·-and mind about the sales • o r 1 o n k a 1-: H1 .. i. s q u tc'! s t i. o n , IAH~ ,u· e co1lecttng 12 per cent which is a h i. g h p !':~ r· c E~ n 1:: .:t g e i:1 n d 1~1 e ~1ll. a g r· ('! e it js pr·obabl.y neCE!ssar·y to g:LvE• 1-. hI'' e s s c.~ n 1·. 'i. ''' l. s r,~ t'lJ ·i c t'' s I~ o d ;:·1 y IAH::-need :in the Province. While we 1~10 1.11. d l." i. !U! 1:0 probabJ y :it is r~-~··l:dbl(! i:o flll 1: t::imE:!, but -t-hat :i.s C d l'l d ·j •; C II:; ~; l. i·l 1·. r-:! r· .
~; H U 'i. ·1·. J. OIAH'! r', not eco11om:ical.Jy
·j 1: lOIAH'! r· r'"l 1·: L h ·i. ~-i'A rnat.:t:Pr thr.~t: IAIE:!
My que stion lo the ac ti ng M'i n :i ster· of Fi. nl:lnc: c,~ l:o da y "i.:; .:tbou l: 1: h c-~ l'l .i.gh proport :i on of I hat 12 per cent IJJh 'i.ch 1. ~ t.rnl;oJ.l.c~ cl·: e d . N otAl, t th:i 1'1k j n 1986, there tJJa s somethi ng 1i. b~ $ 13 rni.ll. i. c)n unco11.Hcl·: r?. d rnont:!Y in the Depar t ment of Finance from s r:lle :; I: ax' o:ll'ld [ l'".lri. n k t l'ld t. has r-:i. SEHI sJ:i.ghtl.y.
No. 67 R3856
Thf:~r· ~) •. 1r·e d c:orrp·l e oi- r·~:!.:\ !>01'1!>
t~rhy. J th:ink :if you h'.tlk to sorllcc!
of i ·. hr·) pc,'!)plu i.n U·Jc·) dc·)p;u·LnH'!nl:,
t lrr:y say t.l-rr:r·e. cn·c-: not· ~~nough
a u d i 1: o r· :> i n UH) d l'! p ;u· t m 1-:! n L L o d o
·1 h ~·· n e c E~ s s a r· y au d :i. t. :i rr g of t he
s d l. c-.~:; 1: ;~ x r; o l. l c-) c: 1: i.o n r· t:' q u 'i. r· c,~ d
cu·ou11d the Pr·ovincE:', and lAJe r-Jll
krlOI.ll l·.hE! pt•oblt!ll1:; oi" iTdV:~ll_ · i. ng
ar·ourrd th~·: Pr·ovince of
Nf'!r,~.Jf o r.1 nd l. and ''' nd 1.<'1 b r·dd or .
Rul:, rAJe i'llso h•'IVC:' l~ o look al~ l:.he
f~ct if we had that amount of
1110nt'!Y Ln and l·:hi:d: HHHlC:'Y r .• rds
collected by a retailer or
whatever business, Lt was
co1lec:ted and it 1.1.Jas not their's
to s pend . T. t has not hi. n g I: o do
with the p o J it i c s . The fair· fa c t
is if a per s on collects 12 pe r cent on any sa]es, it :is not his
or· hl"! t' 1nonc~y or i:.he bus·in~~ s :;'~;
rnorrE!Y so it s hou] d be:~ pa:i d
di.r·~~r:t. J.y ·i.n.
Whd t: (do no l: ll nd er·:;l: .:l nd ·i. :; why , .... ,~)
iH'e l'rot co ] ] E:!ct.:.i ng the mo ne y . T h e
o t : h ~ t· l: h i.n g i :> , ,~.,hy an y fi.r·1n tJ.Jolll.d
b(! aJ J 0 1.1J ~ d , IAI:i t h C1 pr·o p e r· au d it,
t ~I O tt l.d be·~ al. l. ot.£JC~d l:o go iH ly l.o ng ~H'
than two r11orri h s befor·e they IJ.Jere
c: d u 9 h -1. 11 p on H Ot.ll cr)lll d IJH) y 9 ~~ l:
j tr i;(l"t·t~ ai"S of $100,000 or·
$200,000?
f~ ~>. c E.~ n t l. y , i: h :·:· r·,,~ t~r<:~ s o rll'! F·i. r·m ·i. n
St. John's J know of which got
·in to ar't'f~i'lt'S of · some $£1.00, 000 .
Thett doE:•s no t: hauc~~ happen unless
·t: h 1·' ll r.H' e do i. ng a tnuc h rnon:l
flo u d s hirrg busi ness than I ha v e
bee n do L n g i. n t he pas t , t. o 9 e t.
·.i n t o a r r·e ar s o f $lJ.OO, 000 i n RST.
P r· o b a b 1 y , l: he rn L n 'is 1: e r , i . n
ans we r i ng, can fo l low up t ha t
q ue s t. 'Lo n, seei.ng it t.l.l clS rai.se d b y
t he hon. me mb e r fo r St. John 's Nor·th?
MR. J. CARTER : . . -Mr·. Chcdrman .
I :1 R o:; 7 :r tJ J y 4 , :1 9 a a tJoJ X I
~1R. CIIATf~Mf'rf\1 :
T h E:' h o n . .. .. __ me rn b e r· f o r· s t . J o h n ' ~'
Nor·H1.
MR. J. CIHnFR:
I cHI! not. as ld ng hon. g E:•ntlr:!men t. o
l:i·1ke rny r~1c:wd for· ·i. l:. T clrrt
s uggesting a route th e y m:ight f:ind
1·. o b t-~ u :·:! r· y , «J e r· y -i. n 1: c,1 r· P s L i. n 9 .
The rrH~mbr:!t' tAJho ju~;L Si:\1-. clotAll'l can
go dolAJn to the DepartntE!I'tt of
F .:i. n d n r: ~~ a n d s a y 1: u 1:. h c:! D E:! p u 1-: y , o r·
Assistant Deputy MinistPr, thai: he
wo ul. d l. -i. k e to h"' v r~ 1-. hE:~ f L g tH' I'! s
from 194·9 to the pres E!nt day, th~'!
totdl expenditure and total
revenue. If he gets those figurE~s ··
dnd cons~ructs a graph he will find it UE!ry, uery instructive and
ver·y~ VfH'Y -i.nl : tH' l'!SI: 'i.ng.
li t-) w i.J. l. ,::~1 s c) f i. n d 1-. h <:~ t l n 1: h e
early da ys of Co nf ed eration, Jet u:> s;::l y, ~Hl a rno1 Jr1l·. of $120 rnllli.on
wa s s p ~ n t a nd o nJ y $ 100 m:illion ,,, ,.:, :> f: '" k c·~ n ·i n . T h 8 1'1 t. h ,,~ v ~~ r· y n F.! x 1: y ear t he a mo un i. t a ken :i n g r· e a i: 1 y
0 X C: l·H~dcd UH) ,J nt Oit rH: l:hdt t.Ja :; spfHlt
:i r1 the pr E;~ui o us y er.n· , sc1 ii- wou]d
h a «H~ ~H:: f~ n tHH' IJ I v c·~ r· y c·) H s y fo r· .;tn y
se nsJ b) e go uer nnt f'll1t l:o have
b r·o1 tgh l: l : h o:;~) 1- 1~1o l. i.n0.:>, or· l: ho s e
t lAJ O cur u e s j n to 1 in e . It is j us t I
i·1!) fi.\t' o'l:> T ··lfll C:OtiC:t·)t'l'll~:d. 1-:rrlg i.e
that they did not .
Therefore, I s ay, the amount we pay a s s ale s t~x is rough l y t he amount of money required to
s E! r· v ·i. c e o tJY' p r· E~ sen 1-. d H b t. I l. a r· g ~~ as
it is, and it can bE• 1.aid at. l:he
door· qf Lhe for'ITlE:1r
administration. They are re s ponsible For it .
1 o n 1 y h o p <·~ 1: h e g e n c;! r· a 1 p l l b 1. l
g ets t o und e r st and this, that each
t ·. i . m ~~ t h e y p c:l y l: hdl~ 1.2 FH?. r cen t: ,
t he y a r e reall y p a y ing it as a
p c·H l r.ll 1'. y f o r· h .::~ v i. n g ~~ J. e c: 1: C:' d , a n d
I< C:l p t eJected, a Li b e r al g ove r muent
r o r· ~;() l . I)J'lg . Thi·l l: i.:) i·l fi:lc l: , i·lS
No . 6 7 R3 ar:,'J
•
plain as the nose on your f~ce.
DR. COLL1NS: Mr' . Chairman.
MR . CHAIRMAN: T hI'! h on . t he M i. n .L s hn' o f He i'.lll: h .
DR. COI .. UNS : Mr·. Cha:.ir·man, just to anstJ.Jer a fE:~W oF l:he que s 1-. i.o n s . Th1~ tll<~lrlbE:H' f ot' GCinc:h:.~r (Mr·. RakE:~r·) IAIOnclerE:!d about IJJh r:.~ the r·· i: hE:~ dlflO u rll:. 1.11'11.1 ~; E!d f r· 0111 lct~;i· yet:n·'s Joan b:.iJJ :is st:llJ .:\Uo'li.l dbl. e l~ o golJI'!t'rlTIH>.ni:? ThHn hr·) coupJ~·~d thai tAdt·h, tJJhHt: ctbout t·hp aJno u n L ~; f r' o rn p t' r,11J i. o 11 ~; y r-) •'1 r· s 11 r111 !; ~) d fr·oru ·H10SP loc-..tr1 b:iJJs?
Thf) iH1SIJJf'1t' to Ul.-\1 : · i.~;. no, ·i. ·L ·1 . ~; 11ot aucLilclbJ~~. Once a I'IE~W loan b-ill i.~ ; brollghL in, UH) pr'~)IJ·i. OIJ~; locll'l b:.iJJ aut"hor·:ity Jclpsc->.s, so jf l:fl~)t'l·~ i~; o:lr1 l.lrJIISE:1cl o'lnlOI.II'li·, l.:h,,\1: cliTtOUtTl :J s not auailabJ E:!. As we were discussing Adrlier, dbout $1Sl . l mllJ:ion froru last year's loan bill. IAJi.l.l. tlOIAI l.dp~>H 'i.f:- IJ.IH pass lhls pHrt:.icular loan bill.
HE:' ClskE!d also what were the shor"t-hH'Ifl Htoni.~~s auatl.c:·d:ll.E~ a+: f::l·w end of the f:iscal year. I haue checked that out. Tt sounds as though there was a Jot of money aucl ,i.ldble, but i.n ro1ctual. fdct, i.F you Jook c-.d_ Jt, thE!re was not. Ther·c~ IJ.Jas r:lboul-. $300 rn-i.l.l. "i. on CluaJlabJe at the end of March, 1.988 bul-. i .n r:'ICtUr:'\1 facl ·. , 'i.f hJI,~ h.:-1d ned borTOIAIE:!d Jn the Japanese lfldt'kl,'i:, IJ.JE• IJ.Il)IJl.d l'lOIAJ b1-) l)l'!t'y, uer•y clo~;p to sct"i'.lp:ing the botl.oru of UH) I:>•H'r'nl. . Tn ol ·.hE!t' IJ.JOt'd•;, 11lOS 1: of t hc-l'l rnoi'IE~y hcu; now bEO!etl dr·atAJn dcmm '"~' go,Jet'l'lTill'!l'l 1: opnt'o:\1: ion~; c.ont:i nued ouE~l" thP pcud. fl~n"".i 1, M;,,y, .fiJI'll·:!, gel:l·.·i.ng ·i.nl·.o .T11ly, o1Jet' the J ast l.hn~e and a l:ri t nlonths.
:1o H11;! bor·r·ow·i. ng ·i.n J;.'lpiHl I'IE:!Ce~;SiH'Y to i<PC,!FJ i:JhE:~clC~, Clnd sorne Jfl<Hwy in 1-.1-H;! i ... . i.ll.. N0111,
IJ. J .:\ ~;
keep l:h ·i_s
1.3 8 58 July 4, 1988 Vo] XL.
rnonr~y drH:1S not l i ~~ dN·ld, of course, as the hon . member i.ndi.cdt:lo!d, ·i.t i.!; pul: i.nto short-term investments, so tJJhat we P'-"Y ou+·. 'in intr~r·r:!st by hau·ing balances in our fauour, we get back by investing those balances and they pretty well euen each o thE:1t' oul~.
On l.:he exr:h<:1ngc-:~ mdLtc~r' .i. l·: sr->.J.F, as the han. rnE•rnber for St. John's 1\J o t' l·. h (r~ r· . J . Cat' IE>. r' ) 'i. n d i c a +. H d , that IAJc..ls a stJ..Jap al"rangE:!ITH:Hlt. ThE! pr· ·i.nci. p;:~l. •Hld i".he ·i . nh,~l"e!;l: IAJ.:ill. bE:1 r'E:1petyetb1e in C<:lnad:ian dol J aJ"S. So
I;.Jc·) ;~r · n pr·o ·l :t~ci:Hd i-r·on1 l:hi.'l 'l: po·i.nt. of uiE:~IAJ, :.i.f you ward to put :it-Uldl: IJ.Ji."1'j
You can cU" g tH! abo u t Ud. s i'l J ] d d y 1 0 1'1 g . '(I) 1.1 C: d n t:' i. i: h f'! t' g 0 i- 0 t' 1-JH,' protE!Ction and, if E~xchangE! r·at.E:'S lllOIH~~; ;_~g ... 1·insL you, ·il: tJ.k\S i."1 good moue. But if you go for the pr·ol·ycl".'i.on e~nd UH:!y lllOU~~ fl)t' you, you were silly. On the other hrHlcl, :i.F you do nol·: bui. l, d .. i.n l.:he protection by doing a swap and t. h o ~; <:' I:I~Jo c 'i. r' c urns t. c\ n c ~=! s happen , you can either gain or loSE!. So, i.t is just a judgHHH1t. call., IAJiri.ch way you go on this thing.
In regard to short-term exchange r' d 1-. e , y f~ s , 1 ... h <::• r' e lAW I"~~ !> 01 n e short-term exchange contracts fH11-.Pt'l::'cl ·i.nl-:o because t.hor'r! ll.Jas abou t a t wo week pedod to p1~ ·t in pl . . :-l , :1:~ l: he borrmui.ng -:m d l: ht:1 SIAiap. So there wa s a two wee k perjod Hli-1l·. h.:HI '1-c) br·) c:c)IJ0.f"~~d b y f:'!><t: hangP. contrac ts. Rul t h e re was no nJOIJI·)IIll'!l'll . i.n LhH yc-:~i' l dncl dollar dur·ing that t:imE:'.
C.:-lnr,\d i dl'l
~)o 'LhE~Y IJJC!t'l'! j11~;l: I· hI<! t' ,.~ ;,19 ;,, i n "'s d
IAICIS of
pr·otect :i ue mE~chan:i sm. Ther·~,~ i'1 0 I. 0 !; s I) t' 9 i'l i 1'1 i·1 ~; i:\ t' I'! s I I 1 I~ that two tAWek pPriod.
On l: l11·:! ~;;~l. E!~; l:.'lx Jllr'II:LHr', l 1-.h ·i.nk one thJng rnany pE!Op] E•, IJ.JhE!II they ·i . l~ ·i. ~; $13 rrri.l.l. ion OIJ.Ji. ng on t'U l·:i."\ i.l.
No. 67 R38f:)8
~al.C::~S t .. :lx, do ned: t'l-~llf<,~ llrber· i.s l:hal:
:i.f you go to i:l.ny Ji:tr'gf~ business jn
this Ci. l-.y <.Hld yott s.~y, 1 1)1H~~;
HnyonP OIUE:! you any ntont:~y? 1 Tl·wy
1.11 i_l.l. ~; 1.'1 y , 1 '/::~ ~; , I~JC~ cH' !·) 01.11!-:~ cl :~ /.
ru:i 11 :i on o I'" $3 m:i l J Jon or· $ S
1rrill.i.on 1 <H' t.llhi·11:~)ll!'! t' ·ir: i !;. rn o t ), c~ ,.. IAIOI' · d ~; , d n y ~: j :tea b J e b u s :i n e s s
hds i:o IVIl)l·~ .~~ 1:1·) 1"1:;-\"i.n dlllOtHll: of
ou ·l s "l. etrtd:i ng i~ccounts on Lhe
b 0 I) k :; . '(I) I I C ,·q rl 1"1 {) '1-. C I) rl d It 1; 1:
bu ~drwss :in th:i!; dclY and agE~ on a
dd ·i. l.y cdsh bdsi.!;. ll: i.s jt.tsl: nor-.
pas s:ibJ E:'. So there cu·e
OIJtSJ-:dnding i:\TTIOI.Inl·:s. nncl, of
r.our·se, goVE:!r·nment. :.i.s lhe bjggE:'st,
by far· ,:HH:I dtJ.Jr'lY, by far·, f;,n· ·Hlcl
aL~Ja y ·the big g <,~ s t b u s i m' s s i n t. he
Pr·ou i.ncE:~, sornwth·i.ng i.n UH~ ot'df:H'
of $3 billion a year. The other
businesses i n lhe Province r:1re
picayune and midgets compared to
l:he busi.nE~ss gouet·mn<~nt. c.:1r·r·i.E!S
out.. So having $13 rni11ion as a
coni-. i.nu i.ng outs 1-:r:lnd i.ng amount: on
OUI'' books is qu::i te smaJ J.
The fact it .is r·c:!mairdng at $13
111il.l.i.on r'lncl i~; not: gr'OIAt ·i.ng mc,,;qn~;
thE-H ' C-~ js i:i cont :inual flow--:.in of
I: •. ~XE)~; .:tnd noL '" bu· i. l.d ·ttp of
unr·c-!m:i ·U E~d taxE~:..
T. L h i. n k 1: h u ~; H 1 .•1!,~ r· 1-~ mo s 1: of 1:11 e
q IJ('! ~;t. :i. 01'1 , M r· . S p E:1 d k e I" . 0 h , y E> S ,
n n H l i:\ ~; 1-. 1: h ·i. n g . l '" 9 r· 1,, 1:• IJ.I'i. 1: h 1-. h ~)
hon. ntE~nthPr· for· St.. John 1 s Nor·th
(r-'lr·. J. C.:~r·h~t·) l :h £:11: i:\ 1.ol: or ()Itt'
:in dE-~ b l". e d n e s !; now can be put at l: hE:'
door· of p i:1 s t ''' d rwi. n ·i_ ~; 1: r· d 1: i.o n :; , b 11 1:
I think tAH'! i-..t]so hc~d to r·c,!mE~rnbC:H'
that borrowi ng hds been ~ Cdni:1d·i.sn
phE:~norrwnd.
EVE!ry prov:i ncH, and this includes
t.he ft': der·a1 gouc;H'nureni~, .in !:he:~
last ten or f.ifteen years haVE!
gorll'! on a bor't'OIAri.ng i::t'lHld. NotJ.J,
tAle cou1d have buckE:'d l:hat tr'E!nd.
But c..:tn you i.rrlag ·inf:! hotAJ l:. hE~
NC:!wfoundland and Labrador
pr·ou i.nci.al gover·nlilt!i'll:. would bt'!
Jctmbasted :if we said no when other
1. '313")9 .f l.ll 'j I~ , 1 9 I) /l Vol. X I .
C•HJdd ·i.i\1'1 pt'O'.! i.nc('!S dt'1:: bor-rowing
and bujldirtg hospitals and r·oad s
·~ n d :; c h o o l ~; ''' n d IJ.I h ''' 1-: 1-~ 1; 1·': t' , b u 1·: 1 T h P
I\IE:~IArfoundJ and GovE:n·nrnt:'nt t.uj J 1 not.
b wi l d i:l !; dw o 1. , tJ.r i.l 1. no 1: b ll'i.l. cl "'
r·oad, t..u:ill not build a hosp :ita1!
~·J1,! i:lt'l·~ go i.ng l:o knc·)p ULII' books ·in
b r..t1 an c e ! 1 1\1 ow, j f e u C:: r· y b o cl y lAIR s
doi.ng ·Lhi·\1·. yot.l Ci-\1'1 91'!1". o ,\l~li"\Y llli.l:: h
:it. Tf tht:' IAJhole tAJOJ"]d :is go:Lng
Lhe oUHH' IJ.J<:~ y, yo11 1:.:~nnol·. 91':1· dtAidY
t..u:i-l:.h ::i.t.
So part of our Jndebtedness :is
p.:-~r·i": of l:h(~ Ci;1nr:·lrl i.an phc'•nolllE:!rld and
the Canadian phenomena in the 1a s t
c o u p 1. e of y o i:H' s i. s b e g i. nrl'i. n g 1-. o
turn around becauSE! it i.s realiZE!d -
you cannot go on wi th
phenomena forever. You IALi.ll t.hat. just
conH~ l:o a br·eak i.ng po i.nt. .
We clre now in a cycl.lcal. phase
where we wi1l be getting out of
i .. _hat. bot·r·ot~Ji.ng fr','1rrlt~ of 1ni.nd, <.-Hlcl
I think over the next ten year s or
so IJ.Jt~ IJ.J.i.1. l f :i. nd l:hat: UHH'~:· i.s not:
a bu:ild - up of debt we have seen Jn
1: h (: 1..:~ s 1: 1-. H n y c,, "'r· s . () s a rlld t-·. 1-:. ''! r· of fact, hopefully t.~.te wiJJ S<c~E~
•.P'"' c1 1 1 •·1l. 1. y r ,:,1.1. o F r .
I ruove thE:: r·eso] ut:.i on .
MR. Wti..LS: r-~r· . Chd oi. r'trti.·l n .
MR. CHAIRMr.tN : The hon . the Leadc->.r of l he
Oppo s 'ii: i. on .
MR. WEL LS : There are a couple of things I
tAJan t e d l·o a ddrHSS, one <)r t. ht~ttn tAJdS
the si l l y, facetious remarks of
Lhe hon. memb e r· for Sl: . Jo hn 1 s
North, mor e r ecently adopted by t h e hon . M·i.rl'i. shH' of Health .
Everybody knows t hat it i s the
norJu.:tl u1P-t hod of oper•a1-. i.on fo r th~
hon. member for St. John 1 s North
l-.o nld kc~
pr·ovocatiuE!
l\lo . {, 7
1.: he sf~
rema1nks. Fac<:!l·: i.ous,
That is t.he
rna 1)9
tAJi'l.Y hE:> nor·mf1lly operr1tes .
MR. J. CARTFR: () po-i.ni·. oF <H'ci~H', Mt'. Ch.:l"i.r'llli.Hl.
MR. CHIHRM()N: A point of order, the han. the m<-:nnber for' St. John 1 s Nor' Lh.
MR. J. C()RTER: I clfll not going to sit quietly by dnd l.isl·:en to thi:lt .. Th(~ poi.nl: i.s that tAJhen we go·l~ into gouer'nrnent i.n l9'72 l :: hE:~ diiiOI.Il1i·. l~JE! hdd l·.o bor·r'OIAJ th<:li:. yE:~iH' tAJas aJutost PXI\ICI-.l.y L~t:jU<'Il. l·. o l·: h~) .:-\0101.11"11: l!l!-) hr.ld -t-o pi:ly out :in ::i n1 EH'est payiTIE:!nts.
i\Jot!J, 1.1Jhai: T s.:-l·i.d iHld ~~thi·ll·. T dill st·.iJl ntcdrdaJ.rdng :i!: if 1.1..1e hi-.ld n 1-:~ t)!;! t' I:) o t-r- ot!ll·~ cl , .. u 1 d ·i. r 1: h c,~ ~~rni'l.llt~o.tood r·eg:irn c-~ had neuE:~r ben· t' Ol!ll-:! rl , 1: h c-:! n we·) '' I. i 1.1. I!JO 111. d no i·. hrwe t.o bor-r-otAJ. WE:' couJd bulJ.d ..-111. i:he r'oi-\d!; and dl.l. l: hc·) h o s p :i. t. a J s and a J J the i n f r· i.-l s I: t' 1.1 c: t 1 1 r e i . h ;~ 1: I.ll e-:! c:l :i. cl b 1 J · i. 1. rl but tAlE-' .lAtouJ d not hauE:~ to borrow, b~:!C<:\USCc~ i.ht:! borTOIJJi. ng l:hi:ll: l!lf:~ d "i_ c:l do tAtas just enough to touer the dlflOt.lnl·. of our· :i.nh>.r'PSI-.. ~-Jell. not.~..J, of coutnSE:!, if anything, I suppose, 1.1.1e hduc~ pE!dl•'lPS come e~hec:td. Wf:! do not: hf..1Ue to borrow as much as t..ue pay out i.n Lnl:ere:~st. Our sal.E:~s tax J.ooks afLer that, thanks to Uw I. i. b e r' r.\ 1 g o v e r· n m t-Hl t. .
MR. CHA[RMAN : To thal: point of orde:~r, there is no po'i. n l·: oF or·d<~r'.
The hon. !':he I . e,~ i·ld e-:• t' or l:ht-:! Oppos:i t ~ion.
r'IR. WEI.I.. S : ThPI"P IIE·!UE:~I" :i ~;, MJ" . Chr.d l"fltiHl .
r-1r·. Cha:i.I"ITii:Ht, tlw s:irnplE:' tr·uth of i-.1-w llli:l-l:h~r· i, !; 1-.hdl: dtH" i.ng Uw~;e,' .Y (·! iH' S ltlh E·~ 1"1 !: lHII!> IJ..JE:' r· E·! bo I" r' OIAJE:HJ i'..l 1'1 d 1:hc:Jy l!ll'!t' f) l-i'l ·ir•ly s"i.gn·i. f·i_c:;:tt\1: Slllll~;, attd T pPI"SOI'Ii'!J.J y tJ..tas CHI(~ of thE:'
1.3B 60 July fl. , 1. 913 8 Vo 1 X I.
critics of the s:ize of the bor·r·otAr"i.n':!J dl: i·.hc.-:~ 1-. 'i. m~~ dnd ur·g~:,d caution. But in fact, Mr. Chd"i.t'HliHl, l::lri.s Pr'ou·i.nC('! and I~Jhal:. it is today was built during those Y~hH'S. lilh~ SdiAJ SOTII~~Lh"i.ng for' l:hr,~ expenditure of the funds.
The difference is in the J.ast nine y ~?. a r s t,~J(,~ h d v e b o (:! n seeing nothing for noLhi.ng r'~?.Hl1. y, no etddj tions to the
bOt'Y'OIAJ i.ng it. TherE!
s"i.gni.fi.canl:. ProvincE:~.
and =i s
rlHIAJ No
·; ·i.gn.i.F:icdnl: nr-~IAJ r'oads, no significant new hospitals havE:' I:JHen ;:~c:h · i. f'!l)E!r.l 1 ·i.J<C:! l:hPt'E! h.·~d bl"!('!rl in thosE:~ earJ:iE:~r .YE:~drs . That ~Ls !:he d ·i.ff,·~r'f:!nc:e, ~1r. Chi:1oi.r'Hlan.
AN HON . MFrJIBFR : Cos 1·. plus.
Mf~. Wfti..S : Cost p] us, or hotJJE.>UEH' ::it tAJi.~s donE:!, IAH) S ;:)I AI 1: h c-) t' I·) S Ill.·! ·. !; . Ito]{,~ h d c:l d S ~;Ed: S i n t· h i s P r· o v i n c e a s r..t r· E! ~; u l t. of U1f:' bor't'OIJJi. ng . · nw~;r'! yf=!•:H'S "i. t has been borrowed r..tnd wasted , Mr. Ch.:-l-.i.t'llkHl, and 1-.h.:-~ ·1 : i . s i::he difference.
SOME HON. MEMBERS : H f~ a r· , h e <'It' !
MR . WElLS: People would also remember what t he s a 1 c~ s ~~ a x r d b~ lAid s i. n 1 9 '7 l . What was the sales tax rate in 1.9'71.? :1 ·i.x fH~r'c:Hnl·: or· Sl'!V(:!n pE!rcent., tAJhiJ.e today it is 12 pC:!t'c:c,~nl··., Mr·. Chd ·i.r'lllo:ln. Do not overlook those th::ings, Mr. C h i•\ "i, t'I(Ji:lrl . I 0 C) k i·\ 1: I:JH:! Cc' )( h·Hl l: () f the borrowing today.
I . C) C) !( d 1: I: he·) r ;~ ( 1-. 1- h i:l l . C) 1.1 t' cl i. r' e c 1:: pub1::i. t debt. l::oclay. wh(-:!n you rnake i:\1.1 C)IJJiHl C P f C) t' 1: hI·~ $9 7 '/ I(] "i.J.J·j C) rl l~ll' ' 1·1auc->. ~in s:J.nl<:ing fund!> to go 0:19 '" i. n ·; I· !· he c:l i. t ' f! c: 1-. f> t' o tJ :i. n r: i. ,., 1 dE:~b ·l: , :i n thE:. n::in<,~ yecli"S of l- h::is ;~ c:lrni . n · i.sl : r'i'li ·. · ion, l · h~-~ pttblic: df=! b+-. has nE~iH'] y daub] Pd, fr·ont $1. 6
No. 6'7 :nar;o
bj]Jion to $3.1 biJljon net cLirect
pr·oul.nc i.al gouer·rnnerd~ dc,~bt, ·:Hid IJ.Jt=!
hC~ue got ujrtually nothJng to show
fc)r' "i.l: . T'hi.-1i: "i.~; l:he diff~:~r·t~ncr:',
Mt". Cha:i. J"man.
WI1E~n tha·t hon. gE>.nt]E.mtan stetnds up
1: o Jlli:l !u~ Uw ~; c·~ ~> i. ll. y , f>r' o lJ o c i:l L ·i. t.J c~
t··c·!TIICJ.r·l<s, ~:on1E:~body has go·t: to br·Jng
h ·im l:o l·;.1s k i·lnd cot't't-:!t l·. h"i.rn i.'tnc:l
C:Cll"t'E'C:t "l"hE'! ii'ICOt'I"PCt ~d .. d·h~rtiE:!I'lt.
Mr·. Ch.d. r·nt<-11'1 1 U·w o 11-wr· Ut ·i. illd T
I dO U J d J :.i i<E~ t 0 f..l d d r· E'. S S t 0 t h Co:!
r.Jt ·i. ni.sh,~r· of Ht:'dl.Hl (Dt·. Colli.ns)~
t.uhu :is standing in for the
M t n i. s L C:.! r· of F i. n a n c H ( M t' . W .i n d s o r· )
o rt thE:' mat u~ r is I J under s tan d his
rHH! d f o r· a rrH~ a s t.tr' ~"- o f fl. 1,~ x "i. b i 1 i 1:: y
to a] low hj nt to barTow tJJhen the
1·: i.trt i.ng i.s oppor+:unE!, l·.:o r·eplac:.:~
funds that may come due in
Novetnber·, ~w rnay hdVE'! to bor·r·otAI i.n
SepternbeJ". I can understand
that..
Au ·t-: to~.Jo 111 d i. 1-: no t b c,~ p t' e f ~H' a b l. e ,
:instE>.ad of having The Financial
(I d tn l. n -i. s t-:r· r.1 I~ ·i. o n (I c 1-. F)(-:! r· trl'i. t.
re bor-rot.~od ng of s urns us E!d t..o repay
ex i. s i: i. n g "i. n d :·>. b 1: r->. d n t:~ ~; s I 1-: o t' c,, 1.1 s 1-:'
t hcd aut.hor·:ity to bor-rot.~ol, t..t.Jou]d
nol : HlH sy•;l·.~,~m IAIOt'k bf'!l:f:r.~r· ·i.r lhe
F:inanc:iaJ Fldrtt:itt:istrat:ion Flci:
c: n n 1: !'! 111 p l...1 l:c:! cl Ut <:\ I: I H~ 1~1 o 1 1l. d h ;., lJ 1-:' 1: o
bor-r-Oill rHid he pl c-Hli'IE:!d h:i ~;
bor·r·ol~l i. ng "i. n h~to lo 1: ~; iHlr'l he-~ •JO 1:
+he-! c:llJ"l.hor·:j t· y for· oach year· ctnd hH
d·id nol: st:!(:!k l·.o t'c·~Jtsc-~ Uldl ·.
aul hOI":i"l y? T t h:i nl< the affairs of
I. he-~ Pr·ov i. t'lCf! 1~10111 c:l be be-~ Lh:!t' iHJcl
rt1cH'P. E'asj J y rrti.HtagPd, and thE:!
9 0 rl t~ t' r•l J. p II b 1. 'i. C 1~10 1.11. cl b 1:' ·j_ i'1 I:J C·~ 1: ·I:(! t'
c:ontr·o1 of ·t-he borr·otJJ:i ng power of
Uw p r· () v ·i. n c ~~ i. r i 1: 1~)(:! r· (o! d () n I'! ·i. n
thdt wcty. I undE:~rstand in the
pr'F!S~>.nt ci.t'CLIIHSI:.clTICE:~<; the rJf:!to!d 1:.0
have the additional stability. I
do not knou1 t:hr:lt Uw goVf!t'nrrrc~nl:
neE>.ds $160 million worth of
f 1 (.;! X i. b i. 1. i. 1.: Y b U t 1-. h r:'l t. i . S I~ I h d 1:·. i. S
there.
I 3 861 July 4-, 1.988 Vol XI
This bill would give th e
government , by the e nd of t h is
curreni: fiscaJ year, $160 mi l lion
!) f S II T' pl. ll S b!) T' T' ()I;.J i. n g ,J 1.1 i: h 0 r• ·i. i: y rot n d
thai- is rea] ly unn ecessary . I
SIJ99I<!SI : l,1H:! sholtl.c:l i:o-1b~ ·~·l J.ook r:d:
artJE!t'Jdj ng ThP F:i nanc.i a]
rtdtrri.ni.~;l:r·;.ll:·i.on (lei <'tnc:l t-.o
ctuthor·:izE>. the spc,,cjf:ic boJ"I"OIAI'ing
1-.hi,ll-. ·i,!; to b1,~ clorw ·in ::•r'lt:h yer:H',
:instE~ad of hauJng lh·is ho1d --·OUE'~l".
rh;lnk yotl' r·~r·. Ch.d.t'lfliHl .
r-11~. CHATRMAN: Shi'.ll~l-·i='he --reso] ution, as anwndod,
un·r·y?
MR. WELLS: I would stilJ J.jke to hear the
111JnJshH' 1 'S COifll'fHHli::S OTI il:, UrllE!SS
hE~ does not think jt is of
:impor"l-.ancc,1, 'i.n 1.uh'i.ch CdSC'! I can
spend some further time to
0. J. cl b 0 t' r.'\ 1". H 0 1'1 1:.1-H>. n C~! C E! S !d. t y . ' 13 U 1:.
if the minister has a view, or the
g o v (~ r· n rn C'! n i-. h .:-1 s d p o s "i. 1-. ·i. o n o n L t. , I
tllould like to hE!ar it. If not, 1
c d n c,~ l db or· r.1 l-: c,~ f u r· ·1: hE:! r· a n d 1 n i'l k e a thE• t h<-:o
more exlensjve case For
n ~~ c P. !; s ·i. i: y . fl11 L I t. hough ~.:
nd nister tA.JouJd knot.u.
DR. COli INS : r ,~,,~ !> 90 ·i il9 ·i:o
CornrnH.tc-:-e, but T ccu1
i. f y 0 It l~t'i . •; h .
r~R. CI-I(ITRMAN :
t't'!Spond i.n
r· E! s p o n d n o '"'·
ThE~ hon. t-he-:! Mj n:l st.E:!t" of HE>.alth .
DR. COL.I.INS:
r-~r· . Sp:,~<:lk<·:!t', r: 91.1t:'Ss ~~JI·t .:-~1 ... 1-.l'w hon.
t:.hE:~ l.eader of thE! Oppos:lt.ion Js
se~y · i . ng is 1~1hy do ~~H>. nol·. cnn1r-:• t.o
the House to get authority for the
a tr1 o u n 1:. o F r· ~~ d e tr1 p l::i. n n I o r· r· o 11. o u E! r· , to amend the financial
ad rrrl rd. s t:r· a+: -i. on t: h a -1-: lAid y . T uld s ,
obviously, not around u1hon The
F ·i. n c:Hl c i. "'1. A cltr1:i. rl'i. s 1·: r· a, .. 'Lon A c 1:: tAla s
put in, and I do not kno1A.1 IAihy it
tAidS done,~ th i.s IAidY. Tl·w amount of
No. 67 R386l
r·~~d~,'Htpi: i.on 1:h;,,i·. ~~~~-:! do i.s .:liHlOill"lCt-:!d cd "l.h~~ beginn::i.ng of t!CICh year·, and ·i. -1: ·i !) d ll l. a ·i. d o u 1: i. n cons i d 1-} r· db 1. 1·:! detaj] ::in the budget documents. (\S d mal:l·: r-:!t' of fdcl-:, l.OiHlS COIIH:~ cJ lH:! t EHI y H Cl r S d OlJ.ll"l t h e r (I i'l d , 0 r t~Jhai : evf-}t' i.l~ i.s. Not~l, som<::!'l:i.rr!f~S thc-:!rE:! :is i:l CE:H~tain amount of f 1. e x .i. b i. 1 U: y l hat. 1-: h <-?. 1 e n d e r s h a v c~ ; in other t.uords, they can redeem at a cer·t.a Ln s t-_age, or· Lhf=! y can l.e 1:. :it go a l:d t 1ongc-?.r and redE!em a year or· h.~.Jo lah~r·, IJ.thdteu<::!r i.t is. So quite often WE:~ u.dll pr·ojl~Ct d r·ec:k!lnpt 'i. on Fi.gur·E~ t .hat at the end of the i:lctuaJ yedr will b(:~ l.E:!SS l:.hr.:tn IAJhdl-. I~IE:~ projec:i~f~cf, etnd jt is for· thctt r·eason, because !::he l_r.~nd<'!t'S bdU(:~ i:1 C!::'T'I:di.n dHlOlll"li: of fl E~x'.l.b·n ity. Tf wE~ dy·op out. Ul o:t 1: dlllO II n 1. 0 r l. I·} l"lC'ir-:! r· F 1. 1-} X ·i. !:d 1. 'i_ 1: y thP <'..lnlOLHd.s 'l.hi'J.t iH'E:1 pr·ojecU,•d for·
' t'l:~dl-}lllfll-. i.on ;H'I·} pr'1-!l:i:y Cl.l-}oH'lY l.i:l i.d OlJi, iHld T I.I..IOlJ] d not. ·! h:.i nk thc-.d. :if 1~1e j W> 1: h .. ,d l:o emil~} i.n ;u1d gH 1: UH} iHJt hor·:L ty 'l.o bon·ow fot•· I hi:\'1. clHIOIJnL Lh1-} 1-\oltSI·} ·is ;:\ny i-llt'Lh~'r etlwad thCJ.n ju:.·l looking :i.n thE:~ doct.lliWnb; l:h~-:'r'r• i'tnd krnmri.ng ho1~1 much r·ol.J.ovEH' thE:!t'E' :is going to I:H~ rHlYIAli:\lj. J pt't!SUflle 1-.h,:~l: i.s 1~1hy ·i_t~ IJ.ktS, bu-1 I IAJets not ar·ound ctt thE:~ i:.i. lllE:~ dncl T Cdnnol: ~>r'1Y thr:11': ·i_s d fi:ICt.
As far as l:he amounl-. of fJex:ib:iJity, $160 milLion, this question often comes up ~nd, again, aJl I can say is that the mar· k E:~ ~: s r· E=• ally c "'n no 1:: b n for· e t-_ o l. d and you m:i ght haue to do an awful lot of your· bor·rotAJ.ing in i·:hf~ er.H'ly part of the year, and then you IAJ'i.ll. no1·~d Ht)l;!t'Y c1:!nl ... oF fJexjbi1ity you have, whereas oi.:he:~r yr.~rH'S l ... he H!dt'ki:'L~; dt'l'! jiJSI-. r·oll:ing on and on, and you cetn bOi"t'OI~I d !:J·i. l-. l·ll'!t't:', i".h!-O!r'f'! oHld (-'!VE!I"'YIJ.lhE~r·e, i'J.I'Id you f'!l"id up l.hP YC•H' ,,,i, l:h i.1 liH'g(-} .:·\lllOI.Irll : or tn 1 !; p e n t: a tJ t hot·· :i I y . :r do not Ul'i.nk, ·i. n lilY rnHrnot'Y nm,l, Lh;-1L '{;1.00 rn :-i 11 :i. (l n , c o n !> :i dE:~ r· :i n g o lll" -1- o tell
I. 3136?. .Tul.y ~~. '191lll Vol. XI.
bor·r·ot,J'i.ng pr·ogr·;ull, i~; nttL of proportion t o h~.Jo prE:~ u i o u ~; year· s . T l:h:i.nk i.l: ·i.s . :~bo111: lJw pr·opor·i·:'i.on that it was in :in previous yPar·s . l do no ·1: t h :i. n k l·: h 1,, r· C'! ·i s any (:Ox 1: r· a amount in there.
On motion, resolution f.lS amendE!d, CdY'r -j_~~cl.
On motion, cl.aust·~s- l carried.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Shall c:l~use 3 carry?
DR. COLUNS : Mr·. Chairman, J have to 1·. h a i: r.-1 nl!'! n d IIW n -1: n nt~J . Wr~ the r<-:!SOJ ution 1.uhen
and 2 ;
bd.ng :in drrJE! ncl t! cl
I spokP 1-) ;,n· l.'L 1·:! r·, I:J 11 1: I~Jf} r1 01~1 h"' u f'! 1-.o act.ua1Jy c'lntE~nd thP cJ.ause to chrH191·) i· hdl: fi.<jllt'r-:! ;,uJd t~HH'cli.n g from $375 million to $300 lil"i.l.l·i.on T tllOIH:! l:hr-~ o:llrlt·=•'ndrnr-:!nl'.:
On rnol:'i.on, dHIHndmt-)nl·_ car·r i.od .
On lll!l 1: · j n n ' r: l. ;,u I~) r-:! '3 ·~'l ,, r:·11llfH1 dE! d ' Cetrtnrj ecJ.
On motion, clausE!S 4- and S car-r:iE!d .
A bill., "An Act Rr'1:i.s ·lng Of Mon(~y T h t:! P r· o v i. n c e " .
To Authoriz<->. ThE! By W~y Of Loan By
Mol:i.on, thr.d: t.hr.~ ComrniU:E!E'' n~port having passE•d the resolution with d mE~ n d rrw n 1: a n cl a b L 1. l. c o n s <:~ q u E! n t ther·eto, car-ried.
On motion, that thE! Cornrni t t:. e E! r· "i. ~; 1-) , t' ~~ p o r· 1·. p r• o g r· (;! ~; ~; c't n d a s k lectve to sit again, carr·::i.ed .
MR. SPfAI<FR: Or·df.!r', pl~::~aso!
Thl·) hon . I: he lil~'nti: Jr-:!t' for· Te tTi:1 ~Jn~J.~ .
r-'1 f~ . C lH~ F ~.1 Tl\1 G : Mt". Spb'l.i<E-H·, thE:! Conun:it: ·h~P of thE'!
(\]I) (j '7 1~3 il6 2
Whole has considered the matters
t. o i t. r· ~=! f e rT e:~ d d n d h d v f~ d .iT e c I~ e d
me to r·epor·t: that it has adop ·ted a
c c->. r· t •?I -i. n r· o s o l. 1.1 1.: i. o n , w i. I~ h
<3\lfH~ndiiHHll:, dnd Y'C'!COifllflC'!nds 1-.hr.ll: i:l
b:.i.J 1 bE:! :introclucE~d to give effect
i". 0 1:. ~H) S d 111!·'! .
On rnoi: i.on, t'f)fl<H''I: r·c~cwi tJc,~d t.Hid
i~dop'I.EH:l, n-'!solui.) on or·dc·:H'ed r·ead a
·F ·i. t· !) -1-. ;uld s Cc~ c I) n rl 1·. ·j Ill!·) ' b ·i.l.l.
or·dE~r·(-!d l"E~i'ld d f:il"!d·, second i!l.nd
l:h i. r·d l·.'i.JIH), Connrri. 1: l:1,~c,~ or·dc-:!t'c~d I o
!; J 1 f:l9 a i n , p r· ~~ s 8 n t J y , by J e a v e .
Resolution
Thid. :it. is exj:Jed~lent t.o br·:ing j n a
rllt~asur·c:! i:o dl.ll:hor··i LE:~ l:hc,~ r·,:~:i.s i.ng
from t:i rne to time by tJ.Jay of Joan
on the cr·ecl .i. 1: of 1-.hc prov i.nce Hll'!
sum of three hundred million
dol.l.<H's ($300,000,000) ''HH:l such
addit:lonal sum or sums of money as
may bE! r·equ.i.r·~~d t.o r•ei:.i.r'c->., r'E>.P•"-Y,
renew or· refund securities issued under any Act of the proui.nce .
On mol:i.on, r·c->.solul·.: ·i.on r·c·~cld a f "i. r·sl-.
and sc-'!cond t:Jme.
rt IJjJJ. "rtn 'Ac t To Authori ze The
Rr:~i. si.ng Of Mon P. y fly Wi,~Y or I C)oHl Hy
The Pro u :i n c E-1 11 , read a f J r· s -t- ,
s l:~ c; o nd •'11'1 cl 1:1-l'i r•d t: ·i. mc.;l , o t•d t·~ r' c.:~ r.l
pa:.!iE-!d and lt':. 1.itJe be a fl on t.h!O:!
0 t'CI IH' p d fHH' . ( 13 •i.l. 1. N C) • I~ 1i ) .
MR. :-lTr~r-1:) :
Mot :i o n 3 , M I" . ~;pea k E~ r .
On rrro1:ion, ·i. 1-. sf'! l. f i. n 1: o
t o c o rr s j d E:! r· Mr·. !'lpt~i:l k e r·,
·l.hi:-.d: Hre I-IOUSE:1 ln~:!SOlUC-:!
Comrrl'i.U·.I·~l~ or l:hr.~ ~Jhol.l:~
a c E:! r i. a 'ln r· e s o J u t i o n ,
l. C:! F i·: 1-: h 1,~ c h <:1 'i. t' .
Committee of the Whole
MR. CHAIRMAN:
I 3863 July 4, 1988 Vol XL
Or·der!
Resolution
lhal-. H: ·i.s nx~H:!d:i.:'!tll·.
nreasurE:~ to arrrend The T ;-l X r.t c 1: I 1. 9? 13 '
DR. COI.. I .JNS: Ml" . Ch<:d.1"rnan.
MR . CHATRMAN :
1: o b r· i n g ·i. n a Ret.aJl SCJ.les
T h 0. h on . 1: h P. r·Hn ·i s 1: H r· oF 1-1 (~all·: h .
DR . COU.JNS: Ml". Chcdr·rnan, this par--Ucular· ·
t' {.;!!) () l.t.l 1-_ ·j. C) 1'1 1
i)J -j_ 1-_ h .:\ n ~ C: ·I"_ ['_I) f 0 J.l. (!IAJ 1
1.uas announced in the Budget SpN~ch
on Mi:lt'C:h ?.9. What-. -i.t-. dOE!S i.s
impose the retail sales tax leuy
on warranty and mai.ntenance
contracts.
At t he present time, as han .
rne rrtb P. r·s knooJ, our retai.J. sales l: a x
does extend to certain services and OrlP. oF i: hc~ ser·vi CG$ it wi.l.l.
extend to wi J 1 be t he repairs of
tangible personal property. So
the pr·esent Act u.dll actually t.clX
1-: h ~) t)Jo r· k I)J h 1" n · i 1: ·i. s c: d r· r· -i. ~~ d o u +: .
It does not. tax the t.~oJa rran ty
t:onl:r·;~c:l: .::~nd 1-:he llld-i.nl~,·~nancl->.
contract for that particular
c: o n 1- r· ·~ c: 1·. 1-. o b c'! c: <H' r· : i. (:~ d o u 1·: lloJ h e n
r'E:! qU:i. Y'E:~cl.
Th~~ pr·e!>e n t arr·angemen t :is not
r' ~) ··\ ll. y v 1-H' y lloliH' !<a b l. ~) . ~I h<'l I· ·i. :.>
bedng don e notiJ is that the
co n l . r ' ;~ c: i· ·i. l: :> 1;! l. f llJ i . l.l. I:H) -; ~ ~ b:J t! c; '- l':o
the tax, and t ht:~n, of co ur se, the
r c-~ p ~~- · i. t' t-.1·1 d I: · i. s c: <:H' r· i c:1 d o 1.1 i". a s a
r·esuJ t of that tJJarTanty wil] not
be d 0 Ll b J. 1-'! 1-.r'IX ::!d , T hH t .aX,
therefore, will shift to the
1: on i·: r·"' c: 1-. . Tn ot·.h('!r' tloJor·ds, i. f you
get a contract at Sears, cH'
t)J h d 1-. e u f>. r' ,
IAICIS her· and IAli.ll pi::IY
No. 67
F o r· r· E~ p d i. t' s 1.: o y o u r'
it. costs so much, you 1-:ax on l:ha ~:. Ru 1: tJ.Jhen
R3863
~)F:'iH'~; Ci.HTY 0 111". 1:11(~ l~k\Sher· I''Ppcdin!;, a YE·!i'H' i'.lnd a half down 1-.ht'! t'Odd t)t' hJhi:lh·~\.JCt' i. l · i.~;, obv :i ousJ y :l·t-. ut:i J.J not bE·! r·c->. ·t-aXE=!d.
The pr·c'!SEHl'l . i"H'I"f.HigE:HIIent l~c1S ned· I~Jor·k;:~bl,·:!. Th1-) ·i.n l·.eni: w;,,~; i:h;,, l: •~ny wor·k ,.~,,ouJd bEe! tax1o'C:l, hecausE:l it ::i.s d sc,n·v·i.c::>., dtlt:l l:hi.!; pt'C'!St>.nl·. bklY oF do:ing :it is to achieve that particular activity.
Not•J T. 1r1i.gh1-. sdy l:h;:<~t Hw Departn1ent of Finance figures that l·:hi.s ;;n·r·angeuJc,,nt: IAJi.J.l. lfldi.nl.y appl.y to lctrge bus:inesses. We a]J. do hc:nH>. lfld ·i.n t:enance contr'dct.s and so on, I suppose:~, but they are small c OlllprH' ed t.o IAJhd I~ go(>. s on i. n 1::1-H>. bus :l n e s s t.uo r· 1 d fo r such ·t h :i n g s Cl s c o n t r· r:l r: i". ~; F o r· p h o t o c o p t c>. r· s , d n cl compui er·s, and IAIOI"d procc-:1ssors and .:dl U1.:1i: sor·l·. of Uri.ng. Th;,,l: ·i . ~; u .. JhE~I"P. thE>. b:i g cord r·acts iH'C:~, ctl'ld l:hr'l i. ·i. ·; 1~1her·e i ·. hr-) pr·r,~s ~)n 1: i-l.l''r'iHigE=!TJIE-!I'It IJ..Ji'-J.S I'IOi l..\IOt·k:i ng VC:H·y lm'! 11 ; ~~ h t·) t' I·) l~li:l !; ''' c 1·>. t' 1: i·l ·i. n ;~ mo 11 n 1: of C-!!~r.ap:ing f1"orn whc:~t IJ..Ict!> a1ways i.ni:etld:>.d o1S i.~ SOIIt'Ct·~ or t'~)l)(-)flllt·~, and th:i !> ,.~,J.i J 1 pl.ug l hnt gi'JP. I HloVf~ i·:he t'~)~;oluLi.on.
MR. flf')KFR: Mr·. Chct:Frructn.
MR. CHAIRMAN: The~ ho n. Hw lflr~~rnb~H' For Gr:l nd e r·.
MR. BAKER : Thank you, Mr. Chairman .
T h ~~ rn i. n .i. s 1-. e r· , of c o u r· s (:~ , ope n s 1.1 p f.ll1 kinds of intriguing ar·eas j n hi.s sl.:dr.f>.IJHHlL He JnE~nti.orwd 1Jw Rudget Speech, and the mentioned 1: h P. r· E>. h~ i. J. s i:'l l. e s t. r:1 x , "' n d i I~ o fH:• n s up a1l ld nels of :inld guing ar·eas I do noi~ IAJ•:'Int. 1-.o get·. ·i.nLo r·i.ghl ... nOI.lJ.
T hc->. 11ri.ni. s Lc-H' i. s no'"', <·h I menl:i.oned c,~c;a·J.:i el", co] lecl".i ng s i.~ 1. ,.~ s I: d X 0 n I: h r >. l~l i.H' t' i:ll'li: y c o n I: t' i·1 r: l: whE=~n thE~ conlr·ctcl- is PJ'Ih'l"f:!d
I :l 1!64 .T11ly '1· , l9 1lH Vol XI
·.i.ni·.o. For· · i.n~;LHlc:~, i.~ per· ~; on I:)IIYS a c c:..r· a n d g E>. t s a n E=! x t E~ n d E:! d '"":H' r· ·~ n L y . r: .~ m o:\ s ~; u nd. n g i ... h i. s .. i. s Whi".lt it :is a1J about:. A PE'I"SOn b 1.1 y s '" r: <H' , p "' y ~; $ 1\.0 0 f o r· a n extE~nch:!d war·1nanty, cHid then hE! l.lJi J.l. fh~ :J i:d: S 01.1 t' C e , "i.illllH>. d ·i. c\t: 1:?. 1. y , 12 per cent sales tax on that $400, so $LJ.H.OO ,_,,-i.J.l UHHl bE>. cH:ldl->.d on and w:ilJ go to the government.
The minister is obviousJ.y making sure he gets Full l-ax value For the warranties and so on whjch E:~x'Lst., gel::l~ .. i.ng full Vdl.uc,~ b(!Cause many warranties are never col.J.ected on . Tt is really an insurance policy and the companiE!S llldkc~ rnoney on l .. he E>.xl:end(~d war r Cl n t y , o the rwJ s e t. hey 1..\JO u 1 d not ofl-f:~r :i.l:. T ·i: ·i.s sor·l~ of spn:•r'1ch.ng around the risk, some peopJ~' rnay coll.:>.ci: lllOt'l·~, sonH) pHopl.1,~ l/!S.,, but mor'E~ pE:lop]e coJlect. Jess than 1-.hr.~ drtlOIIni: i'.hPy p.:·\'i.d. ~)O i.l-. s h o u 1 d r· e s u J t :i. n a !> 1 oi g h t i n c r· E>. a s "=' i. n Uw i.-1111011 n i of l:dXI,l ,, be -i. ng col J c~ctE:~d by thE:! goVE:!l"nrne:q·l'l:. T ctm Ul'i.nk ·i.ng ·i.n h~r·m~; or:- Ci:\t'S tlOI~I.
rh·i. s dol·)~; no L '"PP ·1 y l·. o "'ny t.:.~x, T ctrn assuming, on pi.'tl"'l':.s and things l.i.kc'! t·.hHl· .. I·; l .hi\1: r· ·i.ght, Mr. M:i nist.er? For j nst:ancr::', if I pay $11.00 for· dtl Hx ·l-.c->.rll:l(!d I~JrH'r'etnLy on a car, I 1.uould pay by $48. 00 tax at 1:he bl-'!9 ·i.nn·i.ng, dnd 1-hc·=·n IAJhE!tl l used that warranty, I IAJOuJ.d stiJ.l havt~ l:o pr:-1y tax on r:-1ny par·t:s and so on that I wouJ.d purchase.
DR. COl_ I_ TI\JS : The warranty, normally d o e s n o t: c o t; C'! r· p a r· 1- s . to work carried out.
MR. RAI<f.R :
speaking, It applies
B11L [ l!JouJ.d nol" h;,wr>. Lo pi'tY l::ht'! 12 per CE~nt. tctx on t.:he 1~ork cal"t':i.E~cl Otll". l·.o ·ins l:;-111. 1- hos c-) pdt' t· ~;.
DR. COU.T:I\JS : That. :i !·: d gh't· , lA I h a 'LE>. U E:'l'' ·the
1\Jo (i 7 R:liH)I~
warranty covers, and it usually
covers the work involved in discharging the warr·anty.
MR. BAKER : But, I u.JOu1d still have to pay tax
o n UH:~ p d r· 1-: s . T .;'I rn a s s u uri. n g t h a 1·:
:is what ::il means.
OR. COLLINS: y (~ ~; .
r'1R. lt-JFI.I.S : ~>omE-~ t~J<H-r-ard :.iPS do covc,1r· par·t:s.
f) R . CO I. I. l N~~ : 1\Jot of1 1'!11 .
r'1R. HAI<FR: Now, t.h:i.s js til€:~ pi~oblc~n' J have
,.J'i. l-.h :i. L. T l:houg h 1: rr·orn I;JI'li:\ 1: IJJi.~ s
i n ·t-.lw R u d g E:! t. S p E! P c h t h a t I
urH:II,~t·sl·.oocl p1·~r·f~~ctl.y '•Jh~\1·. I•k\S
rn~:!r.Hit by it, but.. as thE:~ min:l ster
I•JdS b:1J.ki.ng, [ began i".o IJ.JCHH:!En'
t•Jhat cornplicattons exist. here.
Do E:1 s t h d t rn Eo! clrl i_ F T p a y $ 3 0 0 f o t'
an ex t:.ended war·r·anty, I pay tax on
tha t $3 00 , and then 1 l f T h au e -1: o
ge t my eng:i ne replaced under the
warr·c1.n1-.y, that t.:1. x t.AJi.l.J. not be
pa i d on the cost of that engine?
1 F t h r.'l i: "i. s '"'' h r.l t-. i.l: i. s , i. t p 11 t s a sl:i ghtJ y different s] ant on the
IAI h 0 J. f'1 t. h ·i. rl g .
DR. COI .. l.(I\JS :
WouJ d I. hE:' hon . nrPnrbc~r pEH'rn::i t nrE:~ to
s p 1,1 .. ~ k hI'! r· e ?
~1 R . fl {) i<f-: R : StH'(-'.
Dl~. COI.l.lNS : Ml·' . Ch;~:i.r'Hii\1'1, l·. h1,~ ImH·cl ·i.ng s•~y~;, i 1:
l i·~ y ~; o u t w h "' "\-. :i s c u I" r· ~:! ,., t J y j n
::> ,,, c 1:.i on 1 ! i , ·i. n 1: h o I·) x p J. ·Hl a 1: or· y
rrote, i:ll'ld :it. goes clolAil'l to (d),
Llwn i:h'i.s c:tlllen.dmenl: 1~Ji.ll. i:\dcl (1·)),
!: o t h a t t lw i n d :i v :i d u ct1 1.~od.lJ. have
1: o p r:\ y '1. 2 p E! r· c en 1: on 1 c o n 1·: t' i:\ c t. s
or· Cl.gi~E!E:'ITH~nls for· thE• service,
/... :-Jil6S J u 1 y IJ. 1 l 9 llll Vol. XI .
protection, 111a :i.n l~c,~nance property . 1
upkeep, warranty, or of t~ngi.ble personal
NobJ, IllY unders"i':and·i.ng, <:'l.nd I arn
not big in rnaintE!nance contracts,
r rnu~d: ;::,dnl'i.t~. bui~ lfiiJ und~~r·sl ·.and .. i.ng
of it j s , i F I havE:~ a u.Ja r rant y , I
IAJ i.ll us u i:\ "l.l. y g ,,~ 1·. a b J J.l for· I~ hE!
parts, but I am quite 1.uiJ ling to
bl:~l.·i.:~IJI·) yor1 Ci\i'l .'\lso hr:·l.VO d
t.uar-r-an t y IIJher· e par· ts ar·e
i. I'Jt; l IJ cl CHI .. c l. (·~ •H' 1 lj I 1: h i:1 ~~ L\)1 ) Ill. d b ~
a more expens i ve t.<Jarr·o. n t y t ha n if yotJ hi·\fl one t •l h o r·,.~ j 11s 1: UH:'! IAtor·k .i. s
j nvoJu e d. Jf par· ts rH·e jntJuded
i-lnd 1) 0 11 p;.~ y <)Ill : III<Hh~ Y, 1)1)1.1 h rln cl
over money t o s ome busin ess man, -
rArhy 1-.hl'! 1?. fHH' c1;!nl: should noL
apply to the amount of the
coni:r·:·\cl'. for· IAJI'l'i, ch you pay out
rnonE='Y, no rual.ter· whcli.. ·.it cover·s.
I f 'i. I: · i. s o n l. y o n '•HH' k , ... o b u d tHH'! ,
that is all it 1.u·ill cover· and thNl
the p~r~s will be uxtra.
MR. BAKER : r.,r. Cha ·i. r·rna n .
MR. CHAIRMAN: The han. the member for Gander .
MR. BAKER: So, l : hc,~ nri.n:i.si ... I:H', ·i.n c~fft:!cl~. i:hPn,
is saying that whatever :is covered
undor· l:h1,~ IAI.:-lt't'•HII·.y ·Lh~Hl bc'!Cornes
tax free once it is used. In
1:1:~ r'TTI s I) r ·HI (-~ X h-:! n de d IAkH' t' ·HI 1': I) I) n d
car, pc-. .tr•i-s C1re coverE:H1, cost of
L h (·) <·) n g · i. n I·) , • i. f 1. h f'! (• n g ·i n e .i s
bJot.~om, or· l.Uhcl.'l .. evPr', Ll'lE:'
I: r· i:\ n s Ill' i s ~,.; I) n I o:Hl d s I) I) n . ;.) 0 I :i. +:.
LIJOU]d E:!] ·.i. TIIi.rtatE~ any 1.2 p~:'Y' CPI'It·.
l ·. dx on i-\i'll) l:lr i ng covf:!t ' E~d t. tndt-:!t' i·.:h<;ll~
t.<Jan·anty. You s:imply pay youJ" 12
flHt' t:£-Hii: lifl ft'OI'II · ..
{) ~; l . I) n 9 i:\ s I r·~ t' , ~1'1. tl 'i. s 1-: f'! J" I 1: h d 1:. i. ~:;
made amply clear to everybody,
p;u·l:i.cul.•:n·l.y on b ·i.q jobs l•Jht->.t'e '1. 2
per cE:~nt means an awfuJ Jot, so
l:hi.'I-1: etJf~r·ybudy unclf=!r'stancls
cornpl.etely and ful1y, evPry person
No . 6 7 R3H 6S
t,o.J h o off P t•· s s u c h a cord r· act I.Jtldf:H'S l:<'lnds COillp-1 (:~ Lf'!1,y iHlcl rll-ll.y E-!Xactl y JJ.Jhi'J.t' -.it rnec.'ln~; so thcd~ l-.hE> COTl!>lllllC·H' dcH~S nol : lj(!l·. t•ipfH)d on:{-w.jce rl.l1d dOE!!; not- pny the l.i'lX on l:h<'! l~klt't'i.HJI-.y cnnl:r'dCI: o:1nr:l i-.hl·:-1"1 1-:!i'ld up p01ying tc.x on piit "t s thdt fH'e r· c-~ p 1. i-1 c: I·) d u n d H r· i·. h i:l1". I~Ji:l t' t' ani: y c:cHJtt·cH~t, t!Je:d· ·.is t.h~1 only concern T hdue 1~ri . l ·. h ·LI:. 11s J.ong as l·.hi:ll: :is nJclde clE:1iH', thE-!n I tJ.J:i 11 be pc-?.r·r~1C 1-.l. y 1.1.1 i.l.l. .i.ng i·:o go .,.,long 1~ri. l:h :it.
MR. J. CARTER: Mr·. Cha.ir•tnan .
MR. CHAIRMI1N : The hon. the membE:1r' for St. John 1 s North.
MR. J. CARTER : () couple"! of ptd nts s houJ d be made cibout i:hi.s.
Ti' you b11y d tli·:H~J c:dt', ·i.i· hi·ls;., nonnaJ l.lli~J"I"Ct.nty any t,o.Jay and you C ;;1 tl b 1.1 '1 i:l 1'1 1-) X 1·: H 1'1 d 1:1 cl I~Ji.~ t' t' i:\ i'l i: y . '{ 0 II crHI buy onE'! fot" $c;Oo, you Ci'll'l buy rHl!l 'l:hHt' orw ror· $1.,000. T UJ'ink you Ci'HI E~uc-1n go for· an E~xt E:1rtdE-1d I~I·~H't';-HJl:y or pedldp:; $1, f)00 Ot' $?, 000 e1nd :it couEH's E-1u~1r·yUd ng, :; c: t' '-" h: h ~) :; , 11 n f o t' c-) s c·'! I'! l·1 s ·i. 1-. u i:l L i. on:; , WE~i-H' and tPiH' on eUE:!n fan belts. Yo11 c;:HJ gH 1: <:1 lH~r·y 1:ornpr•c,~h:~ns·i. lH:! lllCI r r· ani y .
U p u n t-. .i. 1 t-. h .i. s p a r· l". ·i. c u 1 o:1 r· p r· o u i. s J. o n pe1sses, i-l: is pr·obr..1bly a good buy b e c au s c~ y o u <H' eo~ s '" u i. n g L h E! l 2 fH?. r· cent because that work is done for you for· f'n:~e . You hauF.! pa Ld For· it ahE!ad or t·imc;;1. I think pE!Ople iH' e u <'! r· y F o o 1 i. s h 1:. o b u y iHl exi:ended WiHTant:y, y<:1t the gar·agE!S l. 0 V ("! 1:: 0 S (! l l. 1- h U HI b f~ C d 1.1 ~; P i: h f'! y mal«:! a pr·of-jt on them. Sure it is rl'i.ce to hdUf'! 1-.hf?. c:o111for·i·. l::o knoiAJ that no matter· 1.o~.1hat goes JAJrong 1.o~..d. 1:: h y o ut' c: a r· , i. 1·: 1.o~.ri. ll b I'! f .. i. x H d .
MfL flAKFR :
I :Hl66 J tJ l Y. ll , 1 9 H H UoJ XI.
Therefore, the TIJ ;_~ k I·) i.l fl t' C) r i. f: C) J'l
f'IJR. J. CAfnFf~:
gouernrnen ·tLh·i.s.
IAJi]]
No, the gouernn1erd: t.o~.r.i.lJ not rnai<E:', 1·. hI·) go l.J e I'' nrnH n t I)Ji~ :; ttli:l k ·i. n g ·•
rliR. f1AKFR : It tAJilJ make more rnonE!Y than oi t d ·j cl .
11-1 R " J . C A R T E R : Well, this tJ.Jarrant:y work, if jt js do rll"! , I)Jc) 111. d rHH' HJ<.·l .. l. 1 y I:H'! l: d x iil b l. e . But j f you pa:id for it undE!r your· I·?. X t-.t"HJdl:'!d IAJ,H'r'anty and hau~'! no 1: paid a tax, then salE!S tax nE!UE!r bf?.cornr:'s r-lppl·i.cdbl.t:! to i.t. Not..o.J, -you could argue that the normal t)Jar·ranr.y t.hal~ C:OII11:1S l.o~.l.i.t.h a car· should be taxed as l.o~.Jell. I IAJoulcl l": h "i. 1'1 k 1·: h i. S IAJO U l. d b C-:1 IAIY' 0 n 9 . J h 0 p e that when thE! regulations at"(,' f·i.nr.ll1.y pr·ounll.g;_., h:!d I:". hoy <u·e c a r <::1 f u J n o t t o a cJ cl , I m c,1 <HI , y o u p .-.l y y o 1 1 r· 1 /. p c;! t' c: f'! n 1-. o n :·: h r'! u '" l u e of you1~ CiH'. Nou.1, i:.tl~E! they go::i ng 1: o Uw n s i'l y , 1 VJ fd 1 , l:1 f'! c: .-.. 11.1 !; e 1.: he r· <'! ·is six month or·· 60,000 ld.lomet.C::!I"S I~Ji:H' t' i:l n I. y 0 i'l ·UJ'i •; , 'j U I I S h 0 1.11. d i:l cl cl .:1 JitUc-! b:it mor·e salE'!S tax?' I i:ITi nk UJi.·l 1-. ~~10111 c:l hc:! l~lt'ong. l do nol- th :ink "l-hdi" is :intE:Hlded. My t' :~ i.'\ c:l i. ng of i: h c;! r:-1 c: 1: of 1:: h H pr·ou:i s:i.ons do not .indj ca-Le t-hat. c-.. d .. i.·ll. l .
What it jnd:icates to me 'is l:ht:lt: tllor·k !·.hat-. l~lould be?. donr-:! undc,1r· t.h i.s extended warranty would normally br" t:ax(>.d, but becausc,1 i.l·: ·i.s donE! under war·ranty, and t.hE'rE:1 was no t-.ax pi:l i.d on tho IA.Ii:HTan t:y, UJE!t'~' i.s no tax on it, but no1.11 th-:is act will. change all of that.
T do nol~ l.i. ke t.o se~:! t:he '1.2 PE'r' cent anyway. I regard it as a l.ib(:O!r'd1 i.nUfHJt: ·ion, dnd Cdu~;ed by the L.ibE,rals. No one lik<:1s a tax, 1 r:'<:·ls 1: of r:-111. rtlf?.. T 1". jus 1- J"C;!rrri. ncl s me of -the Smf.lll.I~.Jood r·eg:irnE! E:'UE~r·y i·.·i1111;! T hi:lUI·) l:o pi·lY l2 pC'!t' ctHJI~.
No. 6 7 R3H66
Sui~ HH.'! poi.nl: is , i. f i. t-. i.s r·igh i~
to p~y it for work done in ~
garag0, then i. t: .ls al so r· ight to
pay it for warr·anty work tl1at you
actually pa ld for before.
MR. BAKER : Mr· . c hd i. r'Hkln .
MR. CHAIRMAN : Tlte hon. the member for· Gander .
MR. HAKF::i~ :
T find i. he rn(•rnbEH' for· St . John 1 s
1\Jor· i:h (r1r· . J. C;u' hH') h ·i.ghly
i'llllllSing. He :is Jiu:ing up to his
rt-~pl.l l:i:ll: Lon I r~r·. Cl'li:l'i.r'llloHl, of bf: ·j ng
t he on J y Li u .i n g d :i nos HlH' 'i n
ex i_s'l:t:~nce.
J II h :i :0 C. 0 HI I'll E~ rat: S , hE~ :i S
t't~COIIITIHHltl i. ng d<ji.d .ns 1·. ·i_ nsur'oHlCC·~ i:lild
all Ud s k-J nd of th:i ng. Th:i s :i.s
b;.:~ s ·i. c i:ll l IJ i.l: . :it:~ · i_ s r· :.:: c oanmt-:: ruli. ng
-( hi:d. peopJ E:: not buy thE:~ IJJarrant:i es
·:Hld so on. H~~ ·i.s r·:~cornn11::nd i.ng
clgcdnst insurancE:~ or any of Lhose
s c h c,~ HH:~ s . M ~=! d i_ c i:H' ~~ , u.J h i. c h t-. <-:~ n J s 1': o
spread out the cost so that one
p t-'! r· s on dol:~ s not. g c,1 t. h i. 1-_ wi. t. h t. o o
lar·ge a bjlJ that would sink him,
euer·ybody p;:-1ys ~~ bi.l~. A 1 i ttle
bit of socialism, I guess, he SE!es
i n i. t , a n d h P. d cH! s no t a g r· e t:1 JAr U: h
people purchasing such a thing.
Rtlt, IAJhat. Ul'i.s lll~~ans, T. s.:1y (--.o Lhc,1
naE':!rnber·, my und(;!rst.anding frorn the
Mi. n i. s hH' o F H ~~ •:-1 1.1': h (fk . Co ll :i n s ) :is !':hot no11..1 iHayth:ing thai~ is
coul;!t't:~d under· •:1 t~kH'r';Hli:y not~J do~~!;
nol_ cai''I"Y UaE~ J? pt-:!1~ Ct:!nt salE-.!S
:·. ,~ x. tJJhHUwr· il: b~:' ser·trict-~ or·
p iH' t- ~; CH' tAJ h d t E' v E~ r· , doE·! s not c: <HT y
1: h t-:' l /. p 1-) r· c I·) n 1: _
T:L i:; i:ll~; o i.Hl ·i. nhc't'l·)!;i ·i.nlj i:lt'!:JIInlt-::nl:
Hacd he put for'IAJat"d j n t E:!r'fTIS of
Uli:' not'l lldl pur· t;hi :lsc-~ pr · i.cc-~ of d
CiH' , ·lla~~r-c->. :i.s a tAJiH'I"ctnty bu:i.lt. :in.
You ge-l k·i_ncl of
J 3867
60,000 tl·dng
milPs, etnd this or· t~Jh al·: t-:! t; t::! t' ·i. 1".
July 4·, 1988 Vol XL
hdpp~~ns
kilometers. '.:I) b (-:~ , 1_ 00 1 ()()()
Is tax chiH'gC"!d on
t h .:~I-_ k ·L n d of i:l I~JiH't'i'lrll:lj nOIAJ? If
:it is not, then that would be c on s i. s t <-:Hl t .
MR. WELLS : [ -1: t s c h a r· g e d on UH~ p r· i. c e o f thE!
car.
MR. BAKE'R: Ye~;. :it 'is included :in the price
of 1: h t-:~ c ,_., r·, !; o 1·. h (• 1:. .:-1 x ·i. s no 1.:
charged the dt'::'aler when ht> r·c,~pairs
illY c;u· atnd(!t' I hi'! ur··i.g ·i_nr.~ l U.Ji:ll"t'dn+·.y
as IJJE~ll as the c,~xtE~ndc,~cl
l~li'l r· r· an 1'. i. t-:! !) , i.·l n cl so u n . T h i.'t l·: tAJO u 1 d
b~,! cortsi stE:!I'l-l:.; that :is UE:!I''Y -
con!; ·i.s l·c ni:.
T sety lo -t.he rnE:~mber· for· Sl . John 1 s
l\Jnt•i : h (Mr·. J. C,n·h·H') i" h;··tl·: f hopo
t ha ·t he doe s no t ca r·r· y on an y
<;~r•eal : t:.::tulp.;l'l91·1 1:o p ~!t'!>Ui:tQc.;! peopl e
no t to buy those th:ing s beca u s ~~~
i·l :> •.~n t·~x.::t mpl r-), T. bough!: i: h em l:IAJL ct'!
and both times I have ended u p
mr.1 k ·i_ n g d n i:l i..LJ f u l 1. o 1--. u f HlCHH'! y on
t.hem, :in one sense. It saved me a
lot-. of gr· -LE!f, l~:!t. tnt->. put i.t t~hat.
way.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Shall the resolution carry?
MR. WFLLS: Mr·. Cha.irman .
MR. CHAT.RMAN : The han. the Leader· of Lhe
Oppo~d 1. ·i_on .
MR . Wf::l.L S: Refor' ~) yolJ do, J wouJd J i l< e t h e
hon . r'hiYi. :; Le t• t)(' ll1·~ ~11 h l:o l·.ell us
t-lthat t:h e sit ua -t-:i on 'is now? For
1-)Xi,~ m pl I·~ I l . h~) ·; uppl. i . ~)t' c) (' l·.l·d. s
l1Jc1rr·anty, I can t h:i nk of one, I
~H~ l.' i.c-) l) C) i : he )/ h i:'IU I·) 9 t ) I'll:) C) I.J 1-. C) f
business si nc e , caJlad
T n 1': t:~ r· n;:ll: ·i. on;.~ J W;.~ r· r·.-1 n i : y Colllpa n IJ,
they would warrant the car lhe for
C:~XI:t'i:l ljE!dr' or' t~thdi-.t-:!UHr' "i_·l-. "i.S.
No. 67 fD867
Wl·wn H1o t~Jor·k i.s done no1~1 tlnd~c~r· tho~P IAiiHTcHtt·j_es, do the people '"Jho pr·owid<,~ !:host·) t~Ji.H't'i-Hll:ies p;.~.y t ax o t1 the ~; e r· v :i r. e and part ~ at i.hi.s sl:i:li!Je? Do U1~c~y do l:hc:1L notJI? I~: ·t hdt the ~d tuP.~t:i on no1A1?
1'-1 R . C II fl :r: R M (1 N : Th~) hon. l:he rJJ·i. rri. sh·H' of H~)i:ll.l·. h .
DR. COl I.INS: ~lit ' . Chdi,r'III•Hl, my unchH'SI:and·ing ·i.s t-hat :if you noLu buy a IJJctrTiHlty con ·l-.r·dci'., you do noi-: fl':lY LdXI'!S on H. Rut tlwn, tJJhon you bring in your· mach ·i.nE!t'Y or· IJ.Jh<:ll-.ev<"!t' 'i,i~ i.s, and undE:~r the tJJarranty, you have it repai.red, well then you have to pay tax on that amount of work thi':lt. i.s done and those dlllount.s of mater·iaJ s that are used. YolJ have no ·r. p '" i. d 1: c:1 x o n t h e o t' .i. 13 i . n <:~ 1 contract , so rr ow you pay :i t on t be IJJO r· k 1: h r.1 t i. s car· r· 'i.e d o u t ..
B u t I:JH~ i. n for· Ilk\ ~: i. on I g l"!i-. i. s e~dmin·j_str·atively, there ar·e l. o o ph o l. e s .i. n 1:·. h i. s . T h ~~ r· 1;! i :; i:l l.o 1: of -tax leakage in it. Now IJJhat ,,.Ji. l.l h r.1 p p f) n , yo 1.1 1~1 i. l. l. go i n and you 1~d J J pay tax on your· IAlorr·anty, dncl lJihi~i·. ~c'Vl:'t' l·:hi:li: I~Jdr't'i:\nl:y l;OlHH':;, ~if :ils par·ts i'lnd 1~1or·ks, ~it coupr·s l:hi:11: ;u1cl i:hen '"JIVth-wer· ·is dorH), ·i.~; not· t.c\X~~d agi:dn. Tf it :is only pr'lt'l·.·i . i~'l,l.y 1 : 0Vf.!t'' ~~d, bttl: SOIIH-~I·.hi . ng:; :.i n i- h t• con t r· a c t a r· ~~ l E:~ f t out , t- h E:!l'l y !) 1.1 l.lJi. 1.1. b ~! r· ( ~ !'f)(? n :;-i. b 1. {-) r C) t' 1: h ~~ tax on UtosP. pclrts that iH'C-?. not· c; o v <H' 1·:! d 1.1 n d t:H' HH:~ c on 1-.r· .:1 ci : .
MR. WF.I_I_S : Mr· . Chair·Tilan .
MR. CHAIRMAN: The hon. the l.eade!r of the Opposition.
MR , WEL LS: I et- rue gE:~t und~~r·s f:and i. t:, ·js, iF T buy a $'1.00 i:Hld r buy
this clear, as I 1::1-H:! s 'i. tuati on notAl
war·r·anty, I pc-1y my a n d d cl "i. 1: i o n .:-1 1. y o i-1 r·
I 386H JuJ.y 4, :1988 Vo] XI.
of IJkH't'..-\l'l'l:y on rny Cdt' rr·om nRC W~rranty Company, then when the IJJor·k ·i.s done undE!t' l: h;:d': l.llt:'tr't'anty, I do not pay any addit::iona1 tax bl:~Ci·111St-:: T do nol: tjHI: d b ·i . .. ll.. (lflC War·ran'l.y Company doE!S. Tlli·.d:. u.Jas tiiY qttl-):; I· Lon. DIH)!; i ··.h~) l.lkH' t"iHll-. y company pay t.ax on the services i~\ nd pi:l r· 1: ·; 11 s ::!c:l?
Fron1 what the m:inister said, I •. ~ !) ., I Ill](-) 1: I 1 1:' y d 0 .
DR. COI.LJNS: They should, happc~n.
MR. WELLS : Oh, I see.
MR. J. CARTER :
but it does not
This is the reason for this .
MR. Wf:l..l..S : So, they do not nou.1 pay te~x, but i:l-w y s h o 1 11. d .
DR. COLUI\IS : I suppose if it were a to t ally l. 0 C i:l l. C 0 Ill p i.Hl y , I :1-l!·) y 1.' i k H 1. y 1.1.1 0 ul. cl bE:' caught., shaJ l IJ.IE:! say .
MR. WFII.S : (f,J h .-.1 I: d 'i. F f (! r· I'! n c I·) gaJ"Ct98 Oln i hE:1 1: hi:\ 1: p (-) r· r C) t'TTl!)
much IAJork, :it I~JiH' t' i:l n '1-. y blOt' K , b~ill to ABC ·i. rl!> 1-::~ i:H:l I) f 1:0 owns the car·, -
DR. COLLINS:
c1 or-):> i 1: 111.:-1 k ~c'? ·r h f.! automobile dealer
Ul!-) IJIOt' k doc-~·; so hi'.lppc,'n~; t·o bE!
~nd he sends Lhe Wan·anty CompcHIY
fTlt) FH:&r·sonally, IAJho
But where does he send the bill?
MR. WELLS: To the A B C Wa t' r· an 1': y Corn p a n y , t he y are usualJy independent financial -i.ns l~ .i i-.u 1-.·i.ons .
DR. COI..I_INS : Yes, you so rnr-~t .. i1·1 t-:! r· r-=!?
No. 67
mean in Toronto or·
R3868
.....
~1R. WFI..l.!) : That does not matt-er, t: he goods
~nd services dre provided here,
and should be taxable->..
OR. COI..LTNS: Yes, but then we have
up and so on i:-Hld so there is a certain
lf~i"kr:lge t.hr:~r-~?..
MR. WF.:I..I..S:
t.o chase it forth, ctnd amount of
A col lE:~ction of the taxes ls the
r· n s p tH1 :> i. b ~i. l. i. 1·. y o F Uw d (~ i.'\ l. (H' . I i 1::~
:;hould be collect :i ng that for· the govr>.r·nmHni: . I just: tAMnl·yd l:o Hldb>.
:;u, .. ~, ·l ha·r· tJ.IE:1 ar·e not go:ing to have
~' s ·i. i:u a 1: ·i.c>n IAih t·H 't·! (.l HC Wi;H ' r · ~ ni: y
Conrpany :i r. r- tlJJ go i ng ·t o b e
c:h.:n•gc-H:l 1 -. h~) l: i:l X. and l: l111 s lo!8 p i : h~~
wnr·r· a rdy pr· :l r.es up, and on t.op of
l: h Hi : i :ht-) ·lrHHv ·i.dlli-\l ·i. !; go ·i. ng l .o
P<-l .Y t a x for· t he t.uarran t y :lt~H J f,
l:ho lJ..I':Ir'r i!l n 1: 1) pr·c~ m ·i um. t)ih ·i.c:h I riS
tilE-! hot'l . thl"! rnemh.er for· GandE-!r
sdys, i.s .:n1 i.ns1a';H1Ct·~ j:H't'!tll'i.lltll. r: would J:ii<E:~ thE:~ hon. minister· to
i:lSsur·e l:he:~ Ho11s(:. l:hdl : rH_~·i.l:her· l:ht:'
t.U<HTanty company r-tor· the i. n d i. V i. d U ;,\ l l.U i.l.l b 1::' p ;_~ 1j ·i_ n g l. r'\ X 0 n
tltE:~ actua] IAJarTanty service, and
parts, u.1hen t.ht:~Y dr'c:~ pr~rfor'HH'!d.
DR. COLLINS: I just checked with the tax
adrnlni.str·at.i.on FH,~oplE~ and 'i.l·. i.s roy
u n d e r· s t a n d j n g that t: hat i s the
cas E:1.
MR. WEI.I..S: And anybody who pays the tax now,
l··.hat IAri.l.l Ct:ldSP I)JhHI"I:~ ·i_l:_ -J.s
l~lrtl"l"al'tty IAIOI"k.
DR . COI .. I..TN~ :
~H. s h (l IJ J d I y E~ !i .
Ot•t n1cd:ion, t·E-~soJut:ion ti:HT:i.~-!d.
Ott rucd.:ion, cJ;~_lJf>f!!i] and 7 ccn·r· :iE:•cl.
() b·i.'Jl., !IAn ()cl: ro {)mt'!l'ld l'ht-~
R wl· i't LJ Sa 1 ~' s T CJ. x A c t , 1 9 7 8 .
I 3 H69 July 4, 1988 Vol XL
On nlol: ·i.on, Lhi:\1: 1.ht::! Corntn'LJ-- 1--.E!f:!
rise, rc~por·t prog1"ess and ask
ledve to si~ i:lgain, Mr . Speciker
returned to the Chair.
MR. SPEAKER : The hon. the member for Terra Nova .
MR. CHAIRMAN : Mr . Spr-)dkC:H', HH>. Counni.l:: h:!~'! of thE!
Whole has considered the matters
· to ·i. l·. r· c-?. f H r· r· c~! d r:-1 n d has d -L t' E'! c t E! d rn e
to report having passed a
resolution i:lnd ''' b i. ll c:on~;('!qu~:!nl·
thereto.
On rnolion, rE!port 0:\ d o p h~ d , r· tc~ s o l. 1 1 l·. · L on
l"eceived and o t' d ~'! r' 1:! d r' f'! ,_1_ d "'
first and second Ot'c:IHr'Od l'l~i~rl ;:\ i- ·i_r· !; {:,
th:ir·d t:i Wf!, Cornndtt EH>.
!;·i i: r.'lgi:l'i. n pr't-:!!)c)n 1:] y, by
Resolution
t:i TTl~?. 1 b::i 1] .,,~·cond
Ol"dE!I"E!d '1. f:~ ,,, v 1:' '
dnd l:o
Thc:l l: ·i_!:
measu1~e
Tdx ()cL,
iS ('!Xpt~cl-i.Hnt
to aiTiend ThE! l9'7B.
l: o br· i ng 'i.n d
RPta:l.1 Sales
On mo ·l·.-i.on, r·r-~sol.ul:. ·ion redd a f i. r·st
and second time .
On motion, a bill, 11 Art Act To
Amc~nd Tl'w R€:.i-.d i.1 ~1i!!l.es Ti::tX Act. ,
1978 11 (No. 2), read a fir·st,
S€~cond .:lnd t:h-Lr·d ~.: · i.rn(~. or·der·ed
passed and its Utle be as on i:he
or· d c:H' P a p c"! r· . ( R :i ll. f\J n . 11. a ) .
~~~~. SIMMS : Or·der· 7. R::i1J No. 4-J .
M R . ::; P Frl K r-: R : ThE:! hon. th e M:i.n:i st<->.r of F:i. nancE'! --
r I) r-1 0 \J n 1: h ; l L l: h (-~ H 0 I I s lc' t' t::• s I) liJ (!
itsp]f :inLo a Comn1:·i-t-tE:!E! of l~ !· 1E:!
~·.J h o! f! n 11 :-; '-' p p .. , 1J l o 1: on ~d. cl c:. , ..
C.E:!r'tct:i.n r·psoJut'ions for· thE:!
9 r· 1-1 i'1 I ·i. n 1,3 n f ~; 1 1 p p l ~) m ~-~ n i d r' y ~5 1.1 fl p l y
i:o HIH' r-~··ljf:~Sl : y . (fl ·i.ll No. IJ-l) .
No. 67 R3869
OR. COLLINS: Mr·. Sp(:1cl bH'.
MR. SPF:rli<FR : Tho hon. Hl!:1 M'i.ITi.s ·h·H' of l-i~)icll.l:h .
Df?. COL.l.TI\JS: :1 hrtVP r·E~C(·d.VE:1d i:\ lE:d .. hH· fr·orn H::i s Honour· l:h~) l :i.r~lll:en;:ull:· Cov(·)l·'nor·.
~-1R. SPF()KER : ' Co v P.r· nm~ n t Hou !; e,
.JIII'lH /.,
St-.. 1.91313 •
John's, 1\1 r~ ~~~ f o 1.1 n c:ll. •~ n d ,
To thE~ hon . th(:1 Min::i. s ter· of FindtlC:l-~.
T, the 1.. iE:wtenant-GoVE:'rnor of the Pr·ov ·i .nct:1 oF Nf~I~JfoundJ.dncl, tr·an!>ln'i.l~ suppJ ernentar·y estimates of sums r•equ i.r·ed For· H1e Publ.i.c Set'lJice of the Province for the year endj ng lhr:' 31st .. day of M<.'\r'C:h l988, by way of Supplementary Supply and in a c c or' d d n c e:1 IAJ:i. 1-: h 1.: he p t' o v i. s i. o n s of th(-?. Const:i.tution Act, 1867, I recounnend those E:1Sl ... :i.rnai ... es t.o l~hP Houst':! of AssernbJy.
James A. McGr~lh I. i.r~u 1-.:Hldnt: .. covr,1t'nor· . '
Thl:' hon . th1,1 ~~i.ni. sl : r'~r· of H(~dl.l:h .
DR. COL.I..TNS: Mr·. SpE~aker·, I JTIOVE1 thE:' ME'!SSi:igE-! 1·. o o..!J c-:! l·. h (·~ r· ~~~ i. -1: h l:ht:1 diiiOI.Ii'l 'l. be r· (~ f P r · r· c~ d '1. o {"he Corrun:itteE:! of ~)11ppl.y.
On 111ol·i.on, l:hdi: HH) l·lol.l!;('! rr-:!SOltJf.! itself int-o Conmril.t ee of th.:1 Who](;• l:O cons-i.d<:H' l:hc,~ 111!-~SS.:-lg:~ oi- l·!'is Hor1olll" t-hE:~ l.:.ieutenant- Governor, Mr. Speclker left the Chcllr.
Committee of Supply
MR. CHAIRMAN : Order!
I 3870 Ju]y 4, J98B Vo1 XI
Resolution
That Jt js expE:~dJc-?.nt to :lnt.l"oduce i·1 Hl:~i:1SIIn:! l:o pl·'ov ·i.dr;! Few l::he gr·anUng to Her· Maj(~sty for' cl('!i"r'Hy·i.ng cf.!r·l·.d:ln exp(:1nSHS of l:·.hc'! Pub] :i c Ser·v:i ce for· the fj nanc::i al y f) i:H' I·Hl d i. n g HH~ 11 •; 1. . d ;~ y o F March, 19B8, the surn of forty -.. f:i.VE:! nri.ll.' i.on p·i.ghl: hlll'ldi"Pd dncl s::ixty--sj x thousand f:ivH hundred do 'l. l;u·s ( '~il.ri, 13()(), "iOO).
OR. COL.LINS: Mr. Chdirman .
MR . CHAIRMAN: r h e h o n . 1 ... h (·~ M :i. n i. s 1-. (~ r· o F H ('! d 1 L h .
DR. COLLINS : Mr. Chairman, thjs is the r· E:1 so 1 u 1·: i. on 1:·. h a 1-. IAli 11 r· C:! s u l. t i. n l:. h (~ Supplementar·y Supp] y BiJ J. . ThE! Suppl.c:nnent.ary Supply B i.ll 'i.s nt:1cessary each year, bE!CausE! when 1-. h f~ b u d g P 1-. ·i. s i n t t' o d u c: P d t: h e r· e i. s a projection made as to the mon:ies gOVt-)Y'I'lHI0tJI: l•l'i.l.l. l'lP.f:!d for• publ. ·j C
business jn the YE!ar ahead. Rut nol: ~H:.-ing al.l.-s(>.f:':i.ng and aJ.J.-knowing, no Finance Minister c: •·1 n c: o 1.1 C'! r· .-11. 1 1. h f! c u n I: i. n g ::! n c: i. (! s , so, therefore, sometimes 1·. h i" 0 I I lj h (J I I I: l. h :) y I·) o.H' U HH' «:'! tH' C.;!
funds 1"(:1quir'E·!d IAJh:icl·, ~l<'l~J(,' not alr·c;!;~rly b(:~en i.~lll:hnr· ·i/Hd LJy l.hc:>. House of AssE:'ITibJy, and thE! IAJClY 1-.hi·ll: i.~; hiHlcll(:!d ·j S l:h;·d: i".I'HH't'! iH'e spE:!t:iaJ 1.11ar·rants; LhP I. · i. f! 11 1-.c,1 n i.Hl l: -. c; o tJ I·H' n o t' o:-1 g t' c<! E! s L h "' t.: these ctruoun'Ls of monies may bP ux l:::!nd(·~d on I:I~Jo that the ctmounts
Pl"ovi.s·i.ons, onP, bE:' tabJ.ed in t.hE•
Hous1;! •· l:h(,~ Housc.:! br:! i.nfor·rnod oF that is going on, i n other words -dnd, secondly, that subsequently t he H o u s e be g i v e n an o p port u rd t y I~ o b r· "i. n g i. n r.'l b i. l. 1. , o r· v o 1'. l;! o n a bilJ authorizing thc~SE! amounts, essenti.:1l.l.y mdking them part:. of the budget in a d~"J.ayed fashion, I guess.
No. 67 R3870
T hd L is I~Jhi~ 1: 1~1~) •H'l·) c/o i. ng hH r'lc~
II OW. ThPI"f~ IAJei"H t hi rt:y ·· t hr•e(:~ S fl e C i. d l. l~kHT <.Hl l: S i. S S I I (! d I I r1 d !·) T' i: h fc~
etuthot"i·ly of the
1.. i. E:~ u Lf,~ n •HI I: -Go lJ (~ r· n o t' d u r' i. n 9
1987·· ·88, t.he totaJ aruount being
rwar·l.y $./l-6 trri.l.l.i.on, $11-S, 866,500.
ThE:~ J ar·gHr' amount wets for· current
account, $25,936,500, and then
there was $19,930,000 on capital
accoun-t .. Those dt'('! UH~ amounh;
that are now included in this
Supplc·'!l!ll·H11-:dr'Y Supply R'"i.l.l.
T mLgh ·t nllHlf:i.on, Mr·. Cht.d.r·man,
thc-1t a cet"tain amount of that
n f~ a r· l.y $'1-6 mi. J.l. ·i on ·i. !;
r·ecoVE:!rCiblE:!. About $7. S milJ jon
i.s rr,~covr,H'i:lblr·:! fr·onl l ·.h~) ColJc:H'ntrwnl:
of C a t1 ad i'l a s a r· ~~ s u J t of c: e r t a i n
._., g t' •·H!llle nl·: !) IAJ"i. I: h D ~) lJ ~) l o pule! r11 : i.H1 d
T o u r· -.i. s m , C t.H' E:~ P r· [) e v e 1 o p rn e n t. , ~~ q n i. c i. p i:l l. r.t f f '" i. r· !; ,., n d ~-> o c i. i-ll
SE-! I" Vic c-~ s .
Jf hon. lliC.)nlbl'!t'S hi:ld COi'lSIIl.LHd l:he
documf·! rli . s i.ab1ed j n t:hf~ House,
1-:hey 1~ri.l.l. br,~ diJklt'l-~ oF l~lhi~l-. i:h1·:•sH
t~li'HTcHd !; cover·ed. J do not :i ntEHJd
l:o go ·i.nt:o 1·: hern ·i.n gr·r-)aL cll·)l:d·i.l
notAl. I hr..IVE:! j nfonnation on thern
a v a. i l .:~ b l t~ h ~) r· f:~ , i:l n d 'i. F .:l n y
)nfonnation js needed, I tAJi11
r.1tte:~mpl-. l·.o supply i.i-. fr·om 1--.hE!SC'!
not·es.
However, the Supplement.:-1ry Supply
R:il1 is something that is done in
every House, etnd i.t. i.s donP c->.VE!Y'Y
year . If we djd not have the
ability to brtng tn speci.al
t.uarrants and haVE:' these validatc~d
b y Sup pl~~ment<:1. ry Suppl.y,
governntf:!nt o p e ra ti ons would b e
sc~ v t:H' I-) l.y t' c~s i ... r ·Jr.l :0 d . U : i.s ,
t h E:!Y ' El1 for·e, a mechi:ln:i.srrr t.hat i f
f ~~ ll. 1J .:~u t h o t' i ;: (·H I 1m d '"1 r T h l:l
F :ine~n dal Admi nist r·aUon Ac:t e~nd J
u,~,~t'l'!ror·r·) move-) Lh~) t'l·)!;olui·.-i.o,J.
MR. HflKFR : M I" . Cl't d :i. r·ma n .
1..3ll71 July li, 19HH Vol XI
r·1R. CHAT RMMJ : ·The hon . t.he member for· Gc:tndt~r· .
I'-1R. RAI<FR: Thank you, Mt'. Cha .i.r·rr1an.
• l~J'i. S i.!; l:he ..:JIIIOUnl:: by 1~1hi. ch l·'.i~C h
Departmen t ouerspent . That is
i:lnoUH·H' 'M•.~ Y of pul:l-:i. ng it. Any
mov eme nt of expenditures wi t hin
depar·trnen ts is handh~d ~ i.f there
is any underexpenditure in a
cer t~i n area, it can be mou e d
somewhere E:~lse, wherE! ther·e is an
o v e r· ~~ x p r:! n d i. l': u r' c,~ , .::~ n cl s o o n .:~ n cJ
this is a normal thing . HoiAI(:'Ver,
1 ... h e s e:~ <:l r· e o v l'! r· · · f'! x p (! n d i 1--. u , .. (·'! s ·i. n
these departments .
AN HON. MFMRFR : ([naudibl.e) .
Ml~. Br.tKFR : MaybE-~.
No1~1 UH)n, !;ou1r• of i:l·wse Uri.ngs T
would likE:' t·o i"tSk thf=! nr:in:i sl.~>r·
i:ll:w ut, i 1: IAI'i. ·11. n n l.y 1: i·l k c• d F r:>IAI
ndnutes. Some of thern <u·c,~ pc,'r"haps
und:~t'!;l·.i.HJdabl~::~. l knn1~1 !·hat
Social Servjces overspent by $12
rn ill i. on . T h •:ll: i. s v <:> r· y
understandable cons:iderJng the
1-.r'f'!lllf:!ndnu!; lo.:1d 1-:hf'!Y hdd Lo bedr'
last year, a number of peop1e who
hdvc,~ hc:ld l::o go on IAIC:~lfar·t'! ·i.n l:h i.~:
Pr·ovince.
Mun :i.ci. pi:\ 1 Affa i. r s ov l>. r spenl: by a
little bit, not very mu ch , but as
T go dOIJJn t~ hEH'l'l r1r P. l: lJ.JO l: hcilt catc h
my e y e. I wond er i f t11e minister,
b c"J r: . :~ u !) (·~ h :~ h ;~ s l: h r,~ l : i. '> i · i . n f r· o n t
of hi m, indicate wh at t he SpE>cial
Wi:H' r· •Hll : s ~~~~:or·~~ for · i. n 1·. husH ttAJO
arE:~as.
T he fir·s t onr:1 :.is F:inar1ce. The
f) I·) fl •Yl t ' I:OH·)I'Ii : c) f" f i. rl a 11 G I·) i , S I'll) ·l: t!l.
departm~rd. t hi:d' y ou e xp E:~d. to
I) Vr·H'!)fH~nd r.l l.ol· . l 'i'. :> hc)ltld b r~
fed r·J y E:!i:4S Y l o e~ti ma 'L(e'
r·l x fH~ i'J1 '1'i. l:lw 0 :; ·i n I Ill-~ 0 ~) p ;:n· h111:: n 1: o f
No. 67 1~ 38'/ ]
F ·i.nance. 1 1nedn, the i.r· expend:i.tur·es arE! E!i:-lSY. It is not 1. i. k e So c .i. r:l 1. S M' v i c e s o t' a n y o t:i'w r d E:' p a r·l me n t s lAJ h e r· e ·t h e e x p E! n d i t u r· e s d r E:~ V ril t' i. a b l. e . r h (:~ c->. X p C·Hl d i. ~. l.lr' 1-:~ S
iH'e sot"t of fixed :in Flnance, so J wondc-~r· if !".he ud.ni.sl ·. er· could :irtd::ici'.J"l-E:! lAJhcd the$'.> nr:iJllon :ln SpE!C-i.dl. War·r·r:1nl:s 1~11'! t' (·~ For· ·i.n F :i n i'..t n c E:! .
The,~ o U1c·H' nne l:hi·,i: Ci'lh:hc·)!; my ,,~yc-:! r·ight off thP top :Js RuraJ, (l <j t' i. 1: Ill. 1: II t' •:' 1. d 1'1 cl J\J o t' 1: h ~) r· n f)c~VE·!l oprnent. J l.o~JonclE~r· :if Hw 111i.nisl.e:~r· COIIl.d ·i.ndi.t:i'lh) IAJhal: UH~ Spc-:!c:ial. Wr-a·r·ants tAJC->.1"~:! for· :in that pi.H' l·. i. c 11l. r.lt' d '"! piH' l·.mc~ nt? ~-)n Hld l·. ·h about. $10 rrdJJ:ion of the $45 ltd.l.l.i.on .
So Htuch of i. t you can guc->.ss at 1.~o1hal: they ar·e and I know that l.o~Je were given the Speci.dl Warrants months ago, but I do not have them i.n fr·ont of we:~. T. IJJoul.d 1i.b~ a J:ist::i.ng of Finance and the Rural, Agricultural and Northern Oe:weJoprnent warrants.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Hw hon . I.: he,~ M-i. n t s ~.f~r· of Hf'!r~ l.l:h.
DR. COI..Lli\JS: Mr·. Chcci.r-mcHI, ::in F::inance t her·e IMO r·c,, 1~1~10 .~~n1o 111.,.1: !, . T h c-) r ·i. r· s 1: iUTlO lHd lAIC\ S $7,?7S,OOO . Hon. rru,~ m b c:! r· s 1~r i. ll. t'C·)lllC·}IIlbC! t' 'f: hi'IJ: i~ pr·oposal wa~; pui to govc-:!r'nrnE:! nt l.o 'i. n v c·:! s l: -i. n T ''! r· r· i:l 1\lolJi·l Sho1;!!; l:o allow them to E·!Xpand thc,!:i r· op1,~r·al: i.ons d I" E! i'A .
i. n l-.1·1 1-:! liar· bo u r· Cr· i·l c: I)
Thi;l'l :j s ct uc->.r·y succ~~ssfu] cornj:Jatty "' n cl •"~ t: o 1·. •"~ l. l. y N :·'! 1~1 f o u n d l. i:' n d c: or11pa ny. It hctd an opc:H'a t'io n ::in Oni-_.'\t'i.o bu~. they hi.~V~~ d:~c:i.ded l:hr'll:. i:hf.!Y wantNI to upgrade their· f d. c i. l i 1-. i. e s , i. t. i. s d n u p g r ad i. n g a n d E:!Xpetnding pJ ant :in Ont<:lrio I they deci.dc->.d l·:o do i. t dt. Uri. ~; E~nd of their· oper·at::i on.
1 .. 3 B 7:?. July tJ., l988 Vol XL
~~R. DrlWF: Not fr.om Ontario to Nc,'t.o~Jfoundland I
!) IH' (~ J. y g 0 0 d I'H~ S S .
OR. COI..LINS: YE!S, SJr. .,
MR. DAWf : ly;~dc·H'S of l:h~:~ NDP i·lnc:l c:ontpan-i.(!S.
OR. COLL..JNS: T 1: l;.li:l !; rl on f! Indus l~t":l a] Cca·pcH'i•l.l:·i.on, IAIP 1" E:' j IJ S t·
I: h r· o 1 1 9 h 1\J e I;.J F o 1 1 n d l. d n d OE:!VE:'lOpHI(!I'I'l·
1\Jli)C. rlnyi;.J..ly, L!wy the ITlPChan:isrn t'hal.
9 0 I) I·H' l'lnl~Hll: II S :} ci .
T h c-) s I'! con d i.~ mn 11 n 1: l;.kb for· 'f> :~ . S • million and it tJJas uei"Y much for UH~ Sdnll~ Ul'i ng, al. l·. hough for· a different uentur·e. Aga:i. n~ :it IAias for· 1-.he E:'qu i. l:y invc'!S lnHHl L by governmE:Hit via NIDC :in N e1JJ found l. d n cl En v J. r· o p on -L c s L.imi ted. This was thE! equity tAlE! put "i.n 'i.n 1-: hf~ antounf: of $3.5 milJ.ion.
On RuraJ Development, there were four· atnounl·:s Uwt"e. Tl·w f· i. r·st l".tAIO area simi] ar. These lAIP rE! <:ldd'il~·~on;.~l funds n~:!f~cle->.d "i.n l·: hc->. f i r· s t ::i n s t a n c e f o r· t h E~ R u r· a l D ,,~ lJ c,' l.o pntc·:! n t A 1.11: h Clt' ·i I·· y Loan Pr•ogrammE! and ·.i.n ·i.ns LiHlC:c·) For· 1-.hc-~ Fo'lt'rrt I oan Boar·d. So thosE:~ lo.:ln·ing i:lt'nl!; oF f?Mm.
T n c f:!n l:.·i. Vl'! l.hE! sc~cond
r)c·:! v ::o lo ptn~'! n+: iH' E:! 1- h C->. t.IAIO
rhc·) Lh i. r·d i.·lillOIIni: I;.JolS i'(l'l i:llflOUn I~ oF for· I·: hE:!
$LIS,OOO that t.o~Jds r·Pqldr'E:'d Ofll:~t···li". ' i.oni.~l. Ftinc:ls in M:i n:i.s'I"EH' 1 s Office for· t·hE:! balancE• or l:hc,~
M:in:isi:E:!r y :~ r.'l r· . () !; y n 11
of I~AND :is onE! k 1'101.11 LhP of those
rni. rdsl·.c!t's ~~~l·w l·li.~s 1:n r·el.; .. ,h~ l·.o d Jot of organization both in the Pr·ov·i.ncl·) dnd oul·: of 1-.hp Pr·ov i.nCE!. It is very difficult for· hirn to pr·od .i.c:l-. 111hi:lL he~ ~~~ ·ill hdUC'! l:.o do with any accuracy over thE! y e d r . l t: df~PE!nds on dem.:~nds ln<:lciE! on the depar· ·trnent and so on. As the yea1"
No. 6'/ f~38'/?
WE-:nt Oil :i. i· Of>r:H'i~ l: i. IHld 1.
lAJi'l. S
fllilc:l:; cl.E~i!ll'' his
I~JI·) r· 1-~
.i II S ll f f j C ..-i.e-:! 1'1 t· , S 0
•:liiiOUnl: oi- $11-!),000
~'>p~: cJ aJ lllliHTant .
t h ~'I"~~ lA.If..l !i cHI o b 1:<:1 ·.i. n ~:· d 11 nd ,.~ r·
nnd l:h1-:~ fi. n;~l. dlllOI . II'll~ I1JaS for
$4-87,400 c:md i hat was rPquired for
l.:1110 subd"i.v:i.s ·i.ons, l:hE:~ f.i.r·si·: one
dealing wilh financial assistance
to organizdtions, the ragiondl
v~~i r::'!d.nary College in PEI, and
Ula t. IAJa s .i. n d c c en·d eHl c e tAd. t h <Hl
agt"eement JJ.JE:~ had whE!reby this
Pr·ovince tAJi.ll. pi:·ll) IJ. p~>.r c~~n'l: of
the operating costs of the new
V.:!-1-.er·i.nar·y Collr-:>gl::'! wi. th cost.s
being less jn any year if
Nt~tAJfoundland h<:ls l1::'SS thr.~n t.~w
full camp] ernent of students and j f
PET. subsl: ·i.tuh~s sl:ltc:lr:!nt:; fr•om
elsetAJherE:' :in our places. So t her·e
IJ.JE:rl::' fund i.ng r·nqu-Lr·t~IIH·::n1·.:; n:~1-=:dc~d
t· hE:!l"e-~ in thE-! r..lmourl'l .. of $1]/,000.
Tl1~·· ed hE=:J" antoun-L to rn<'li<E=: up the.::
h)l·.i:ll of •r,t~B7,1J-OO IJ.J<l:; 'f>37rl,OOO.
Tlii~1. was t·e~qu:i r·E-:d for· hog and
poltll·.r·y subs·i.c:l'i.l·~:; lll<d.nl. y bf!Ci·\ll!il·~
of Hli.'J.r·kE-~1. cot1diLi.ons. Ther·e :is an
l·)><i:r~ .:~mOIJn'i: of s11b:;·i.dy for· 'l.JJ.Jo pl"og J"i'.Hns, c~ga:i n,
u tliHJI ·. J. ci. P·~ h-~ d 1110 lJ 1-'!1111-:Hll: s :i. n
rnar·ketpJ acEo1.
MR. FUREY: Mr· . Chait"rnan.
MR. CHAIRMAN:
~~ hI) sf:! for· 1: l'l 1:~
Th~ hon. the member for St. Barbe.
Mr~. FURFY: Mr·. Ched.r'Hl<Hl, T. I1Jondc:!r' LF T. could
ask the acting Minister of Finance
( D r· . Co 1. l i. n s ) , T. 1: h i n k h t:) r' f-'! f c.:: r t' e d
to $4-'.J,OOO for· the Department. of
R l.tr' ~~ l. , A g r' ·i. c u 1. ·r. 1.1 r· "' 1 d n cl No r· i". h en· n
DPvel oprrwnt, I t hinl< he said, for
h· .:1. v e l. . I s I -.1'1<:·1'1': r· · i g h 1: ?
DR. COl LTNS : And OfHH'<,ll·.·i ons .
1 :1 B'/3 J I 1l. y IJ. , ·1 9 H ll IJo I X 1.
MR. FliRFY : r r· <:1lJ f.: l. i.l n d o fH) r· .~~ H. on •; . T s I ~ h a i:
not t.hEo: amount under· thE:) SpE!c-.:laJ
l,,lat't'<Hll·. !-or· s c-~ l: 1 ·. ·i. n y u p 1·. he n t::! IJ.J
mird stl'·y? What is 11 r i n · i. !) l: r· y 1
:; I:- i. l·. J. f! ?
MR . RAIRD: Northern Development .
MR. FURI:Y: Northern Development .
$11-S, 000 to come out -
MR. CHAIRMAN:
thE:~ l'lE!IA.I
Is not that
The hon . the han. the MinistE•r of
He,~al.l':h.
DR. COI..I.INS: I d:id not say sell) i:raVE!], I said
·u·. IJ.k\s for· c:q:HH'<:d: ·i.ondJ. Funds. 1
mentioned that it :is d:.i.fficu] t to
i:Htl·. ·ic'i.pi:\1'.1:~ I)Jh<.~l". opc:r·al·.· ion<'ll. Funds
that pi'.lr·t.icu1ar dt'!pc'lt"trrtE'n'l IAJ·.:t lJ
tH)I·)d l:ht'OIIijhOIII: UH) y::!<H' by i.:hP
nat.ur·e of Jt.s wor·l<. Now, IJ.Jhelhet"
·i. L I~Jiol:; ror· U1i:ll-. PIH' PO~;e, p:::r·haps
thE:! hon . M:inisiE.~r for· Rf)I\ID (Mr·.
p I)IJ.JI·) t') 1~1 i.ll. b I·~ i'l b l. I·) l·.o 1". I'! l.J US .
r-~R . FIJRF.Y: Mr . Cha:i rmcHl .
MR . CHAIRMAN : ThE=! hon. the:~ mE:!mbE:'r' for St. Barbe .
MR. FUREY: Maybe I cou1d ask the M:.i.rd.ster of
R u r· .~ l. , n g r· i c u 1. t 1.1 r· a l. ,,t n d No r· t. h C'! r n
DeveJ opment about that $45,000 or
the Minister of Northern
Development (Mr. Warren). Could
l. h f'! n ~~IJ.J Mini. s l: ~~ r· For· 1. ;,\ b r· d do r· , 1: hE!
Minister of Northern Development,
b->.l.J. US t;Jhd't f-:h,::~ ·t~ 'J;IJ.!), 000 l)ldS US(;!d
For?
MR. WARRFN : M r· . C h d :i. r· HI iHl •
MR. CHAT I~MAN :
T h c·) h o n . 1.1-1 (! M · i n · i. s h:! t' n-rc ~J or· 1·. h e n1
OeUE:!] oprnE~rll:.
1\J 0 . {) 'l IBH73
Mr~. WARRFN: Mt'. Chi:l"'i.t'Hlc:tn, U1<::~ $1!-5, 000 i.s a resuJt of the Pr'emier placing me c:1. nd l: hr-=! Cabi . rH'! 1:: on J cHlU iH' y a, for' the requirements needed to c~rry on !::he'! dr.~Y i·:o ddy oper'ati.ons, including the use of a vehicle, off :i. c c,~ s t. c::t f f , s .:~ 1. .:~ r' i. ~~ s . [ F 1·. h (,~ hon. gerl'l-J.eman l'lEH:~ds morE:~ detail, T. · c i'lrl g r'! :-. ·i. 1~ for· h ·i.rn.
~~R. CHIHRMAI\J: S hr.~ l J. i hE:~ t· (!so J u t :.i on c Cl r· r· y?
~~ R . ~,J F: I I . ~') : M1··. Cha:i.l"rlli'.HI .
MR. C~IAJRMAN: Th,,~ hon. l: 1·1~-;! 1. I'! i:ld I'! r' of Uw Oppo~dUon .
MR. WE'I..l.S : Mr·. Chdi.r'III•Hl, j u sl: a C:OIIflll-~ of questions I would Jike for the Hri. ni. sl·_ cH' 1-.o ,,~xpl.r:d.n. F·i.r·si:, Hw net budgeted last year was $2,/1.55,000,000. Thr'll: IAJdS Ulf:! 1'11-'!1~ ~ruount to bE:~ voted last year, and l:ha l. i.s IJJhat I: he Est. i.1nr.1. t.r~s for· last. year show.
Now the revised Estimates for this year show that revised downwards to $2,199,000,000. WouJd the n1 i. n 'i. s t ('! r· {~ x p l. .:1 i. n ~~J h y l: h r-~ r· r:! · i. s r.H~d'.it.:ional supp] c'!ITIE:!ntar·y supply of '!i '1- S rn i J. l i. o n ? f) n {:~ s I: h r'! cotHitervaiJ ing saul ngs in ot.hc·H' dr·~fhH'tnH'!nl ·. s no!·_ .:~p .pl.y i"g;_d. n s 1·. ·i 1-.? 110E-!S t.h:is hatJE·! ·t-.o bE-' vo-t-E~d :i.n ''' d d i_ l: i o n , U1 r-; l: o U-1. 1. r-~ x c n •; s i. n ;,u 1 y :i nd:.i u:i.duaJ dE!p;u·trneni· hi!td to bE:' tJ o lr'! d i n i:HI rJ 'i. i: i. o n , i. •; 1. h ''1 l: ~~J h <:1 l: -t hE-· p 0 s :i t :i 011 :i s ?
OR . COU.CNS : Mr· . Chcdr·rnan.
r-1R. CHAIRMAN: !'he hon . l·.hr=! r'l:i.n:i. sh:~r· of Hr,~i:ll.i-h .
Of~. COU. TI\1!'): -Mr· . Chair'mi'.ln, if I understand thE!
UB7'l- July 4-, '19BH 1J o 1 X I.
han. Leader of the Oppos i bon cor·r·E~cl~l.y, notJ.J hE~ cdn kec-'!p rnE• right, if I got this wrong, he is s d y i. n 1:3 I: h a t tJ.J he n 1·: h rc~ B u c1 g r:?. 1: tAJ r.~ s brought in in thE! earJ.y part of 1.9137 -- 1.9!313, i::IH•t'f:! IJ.JdS d CC-'!t•tai.n amount in jt, ll.lhateuer· that amount l"li:'S. Thr~n, I;JhrHl l·. l·w Fludgr-:! 1: lAJaS
brought in for this year, the o:llliOIHll: IJ.Io-lS t'<"V i Sf~ r:J cJOIJ.In . 1\)(liiJ he is asking, does t hat amount now hi·llJ(! i:o t'r~lJ i.sr~rl 11p by 1--.h ·i s dl'llOUili:. here:~?
Tf 1:h;.,l·. ·i ~ ; l:l1::! t:JIIEhl ·. ·i. on, no, b e c: a u s E:! IJJ h e n t h a t: I" e v ::i s E! d d rn o u n t I~J i ~ ~ ; d r1 i 10 11 n c 1-; d -j n I: h C! R u cl g ('! 1·: ~") p (' ('! c h Ud s y C-'! a r , :i n r· e g <-.H' d t o t l1 e R u c1 g E~ I: r I) r· 'I "' ~; i- y I'! c"' t' ' i -1: I <kl :; i:ll. r· f ~ i''1 d y knotJJn that thr:.>sE:~ amounl:s had bePn ,,,xp~;ndr-~ cl OVf.!t' dnd above allocations through Special W;.n· t' an l·. s . So l~ ll I'! y I;JH r· :-~ <:ll. n~ •--~ d y incJ.uded in the revised amount .
It was not really a matter of countervailing sc::tv t ngs, I guess, it was just meant that jf WE! had n o 1:. h .:~ d 1: o p 1.1 1·: i. n 1:: h e s r;! S p E! c ·i. a 1 Warrants, there would have to bE! a loiAH:!r amount-. . f'hrn'r->. IAJOul.d b~~ a further revision of !::he amount. So i. 1~ IJ.Jo '.-1 ') i·l n f:• 1-. i:·liiiO u n t. l:: h d 1:: IAJi-1 s announCE!d for Jast YE!dt" in this y(~<H' 1 s fludge1 · , ·i.ncl.ud ·i ng l: ht'! S(-'! her·e.
MR. WFL.lS: Mr·. Ch;" ·i t'llldtl .
r-H~ . CH IH RMrlN : Th e'! t·wn. t hE~ I c->. ader· ( lf t h E~ 0 p p n ~;-i_ L ·i. on .
MR , WF.I l.S : Ont) ol ·. hr-; r· qiH; sl: ·ion . f'h f; nl'i . l'l'i :.; h~r· has ind:i.cated a portion of -L.he ;-=tmo 11 n 1: i. s l: he '!i :1 . ~i 1n:i.l. T ·ion ('! q u ·i.i-·. y :in Spr·ung . Now tJJhE:!n t.hE· Spr· ung pr·oj r~r: l: 1 ~1 a s i.HII'lOIHlC(~ d, I:: he Pr'(c' tn i.er· announced that the equity would be i. n U1 f.! F o l"lrt of 9i /. . ''i ril'i. l l ·i.o n ·i. n cash and land worth $1 million.
1\Jo . 67 lnB 71J.
W h r .. d , i n fa c t- , a p p E:' <H' s to h ct v E:l
l'li:lf>FHHlr!d i.!; l:l'li:l.l·. Uw li.HH:I ~~Jor·i:h 1>1. ru:il]:ion lAJr.~s put Jn fen· $:1SO,OOO,
l:)lll: Uw f11ll ~-:~q,dl·.y, ·i.nsh,~.-:lr:l or bP:ing r·c-!duced by $850,000, thE:l
f11ll ~:!Cjtdl:y I~Ji.~S p11i·. ·in. i:lL $1.')
rn:ilJlon. ~~o J t.uould JikP t·hE~
rn-i.ni.sl:r,~r·, i.f ht~ t~Joul.d, Lo ~-~xpli:dn
t.uhat happened to the add:i tional
$ar;o,ooo i:hr:li-. 1~1as 'i.n l:he ;.)pr·ung
PI"OjE.~ct, and why steps lAJE~rE:l not
t.aken i.:o r·c,~ducp 1--.o cash l~qu·i.l·.y -i.n
Sprung by the $8 SO, 000 addi U onal
cap i.l:.r:~l. valuE:~ of l::h~~ lr:'lnd, as IAJdS
etnnounced in the House.
MR. CHAT.RMAN: The hon. the Mird ster of Hea] th.
DR. COLLINS: Mr . Chairm<Hl, T would rr,~r"l.J.y haVE:'
to get some further information on
l:hdi: .. J. 1-.hi.nk the,~ hon. l.f~ddc,~r· oF
the Oppos:i.tion is say·.ing thr:1re was
1. a n d p 1 1 1: i . n U1 <:H' H iHH:I T d o n o t
t lyj nk that. he is qut:•st-.i on:i.ng t:ht:'
i:he lJr~ltll:' of" UH~ 1. r:~nr:l. 111=! i.!;
!->n y :lng the~t j ns'l.ead of $1 m:illion
~Hdrll!f •rtss-i.gru~cl l: c) l:hi:'ll: p.:u·l: 1)f Ollt'
c-1 qul t y, it war- only $150,000
;~ ss : i. gl'H:1d 1-.o l : h.~l : p .:n· l·. of c)llt'
C-!qtJ:it. y . Jr. tha t. you are r eferr·i r1g
1: I)?
r'1R . CHATRMMJ : ThE·! hon. thP l E~dd~!r'
Oppos i. ·U.on .
MR. WELLS: Jf I may, the hon . the
pr·obabl.y r·enH~IIIbt:H'S l::h~1
statement, I have it
sc:1.Ld l:.hat. UH~ govc.:!t'nlllent.
to put in $3.5 m:Ulion.
h i s ex a c t IAJO r· d s :
of lhE:l
minister P r· f:! rrd. E:l r 1 :>
hE!re. He t.•.lr:lS go ·i. ng
Here are
11 F l r· s t: l. y , t h <-:J P r· o v i. n c f~ '"'ri. ll. prov:ide an oquit.y cont:ri.bution of
$ 3 . 5 rn i. ll ·t o n . ·r h i. s c o n 1-: r· i. b u t: i. o n
consisis of pr·oviding to the jojnt
VE!rli-:1 .11"1~ cornpe1ny i·:hi.r·l-.y dCt"HS of
land valued at approximately $1
rn i. l. l. "i. on . .,. h f:' b <·11. ''' n c !'! o f I: h t'!
I 3 87 t) J u J y li-, 1 9 B H Uol XI
Province's equity $ ;:> • f) Ill i. l l i. I) rl I>J' i. -1. 1.
of a cash advance lJ f! n LltJ·' t;! 1; omp•:l n IJ . 11
contd.but1.on of b 1:' ·i_ n Uw f u r·rn
to the:! jojnt·
i\Joi~J, bi.·l•>Hcl on Lhe
l . iE:~uterti:lnt·-· Governor· 1 s War·r·an'l':. !:hell
hdVt·) b:=!(!il l:dbl.Hd ·i.n UH~ Hou!;c,', :U ·.
appear· s that , in fa c t , t.: h c,,
P r· o tFi. r11: E! b otT ot~H:! d ~!; :1 . r; rn 'i.l J. j on in
cash, f..tnd in subsequent statements
r ·i.lf~d in t.h:~ HOUSE!, Uw Pt'f:!lfl'il:H'
advised that they put the full
dHJOIHJI:·. oF $].5 1rri.l.l.-i.on i.n cash,
instead of the $2.5 million a s
pleHHH:~d.
Newfoundland Enviroponics, on the
ol:.hf>.t' hc:1nd, got the land IAJor·Lh ~~~
millton but only paid For· it
$1.50,000 bec,:'luse UJtlY got i. t from
a government agency, Newfoundland
o:1 n d I..''' b r' .:1 d o t' H o u s i. n g Cor· p o r· a 1:: i. o n ,
which means that the government,
:i.ns i:c"!i~d oF hi:llFi.ng $:~. r.; nri.ll j on i.n
r:1quity 1n it:, has $4,3 1)0,000 in
c·:! q1t ·i. l·.y ·i. n ·i 1· ..
Now, l:Hl ;.n· ·i. i'll~ ·i_ n nri nd l. h e F·i g u I"~>. s
i.ab]ed in thE:• HousE:• r.1s to thE:'
cons l:t'l!C L i.on Cl)!) i· or I··. Ill·~ pr·oj uci-.
a n d s o o 1'1 , lA! h cd: 1·1 d. p p r:' n E>. d t. o '1:. h a t ;,, dd·i.t ·ion (~8iiO,OOO ·i.n c•·1~d1, i:llld lAJhy
IJ.Jcls not t.hE:l governntE!I'll': 1 s cash
t·:!qlli.l:lj t'C.HJltc: Hd fr'Ortl '!>3. 1) lll'i.Jl'i.on
dOlAJI'I 1:0 $2,650,000, lAlhich IAJOU}d
l ·li.~ tJ ,,~ h i.HI 1: h c:! go v t'! t' rHII :'! n 1: h o 1 d i. n g
lhe add:d:ion $850,000 bE:!Ci.'lUSE! UH~
~)pr·ung ContpdniJ po:1 ·i.cl $l rio,ooo -Ln
cash for the land?
That is thE! question that I t,o.Jou]d
l."i.kC'! drlSIAJ~>.r'ed,
MR. PEACH : Mr. Chairman .
MR . CHAIRMAN : T h f:~ hon. 1-:hc,~ M·i.ni. st·.E! r' oF llous ing .
MR. PEACH: ~~IOU] d-] ike ·I: he hon. mE=>rnbE·r· to
p 0 S t-~ i: h ;~ 1: p iH' 1: of IJw que!> l: ·i.on
No . 6 7 R3H'/':)
dga i.n. T I)Jd s just oul-.s'i.do and I d:id not get :it. I cou1d probably 9 'i. VC.;! hi J(J cHl d 1'1 SIAJ("! r• to .i. t. d$ it relates to the land that N~~1.1.Jf ou ndl. d nd i:>ll'ld l.r:lbr·ador' Houstng had 1JJh::i ch I.I.Je ., pr·ovidE:~d to Nt'IJJ found J.a nd F n v -i. r· o p o n i. c s .
MR . SPEAKER : The hon. Lhf:~ l_e,~dc-n· of l::ht.;! Opposj t.::i on .
Mi~ . WFU .S: WPJJ, J do not mind teJJing the ul'i.rdstor, b111·. ·it: cloc-~s noL t'C'!l. ah~ to JiHJd at i-..1]].
What I am Si-.ty ~i ng '.is, etnd l quotc.;!d Fr·n1n l : h~) f>r't·)tll'i. t·~r·· 1 s s La J:t:·lll~~nl: htc' Dli-HJe :in Mdy and June in ·the Hous(->. of A!;!;~-:~mbl.y dnr:l ·l.o t·. hc,' nt:!I~J!; lll!~d·i.;·l. , dnd hE:~ announcE!d thi'.tt th~~ gotJCH'mn~-:~ n l: 1~1a s go ·i.ng l:o nli'l !< (-~ ;u1 equity contr·:i but.ion to 1\JE:~I~Jfounc:JJ.dncl fnu :i.r•opon·i.c:s Of 'J):J. S nr:ill:ion , Mid that that equity IAJOLJld r:onsi.sl: of lr'll'ld hdu ·i.ng an approx:imate value of $1 million and the bdl.dnce IAJOuld ' b:.:~ ·i.n cash, $2.5 rntllion.
Now IAH:~ dre told Lhr;'lt. 1.1.Jhat in fact-. has happened is the land was pu'l: i.n, but~. NeiAJfoundl.and and l.abrddor· Housing was paid $11.10,000 for· the l and U1 d 1-. 1~1a s p u f: i. n , s o , t ·herE>.for·e, the value of the land f'!Cjll i.l:y, unl.~~s s I·. he} lJdl.ll<·) of l".ht·~ land was worth $1,150,000, I do not: k nouJ, bul'. ass uJni.ng ·i. i: ~~~;,, s IMOI" ·lh $1 m:ilJ:ion, the.;! equity po r· t i.on ~11: t-.r· ·i. bu tab 1 ~~ l·:o Uw 1. '"net J.Uc:~s, 'l.hE:!l"E~Iot"E:•, $8 1:;0,000. If tho golJHr'lliiiC!I'l 1: I!Ji~s ·i. n (';~c 1: gwi ng l:o put ·.in $3 . 11 ru:i11:ion , they shouJd 0 n l. y ' Ul (:! r· (·) r I) r· t;! ' h iW I) pI I I: i. n $/,61:'•0,000 :in~;i· edd of l.he $3.11 Ill i l.l.'i.on 1~1h i. d1 Lht:!y d·i.d ~HI L i.n.
~,JI'ldl l oUII dS!< i. ng l'.ht-~ 90Vto!t'I1IIIC'!I'll. 1 . ~; ·to c-~xphd n IAJhy th:i s figurE:' should ned: be n~dljt:f'!d now by cr,ar;o,ooo, or· o '\ he n.~ri s ~~ , h a v E:! t hE' go v C.;! r · n me n t
1.3H'76 July '1., 19HB Vol XI .
account: Few add:J.+:·i.on<:-11. r.~xpr,~nd i.tur·~:! of $850,000 in Sprung Env ir•opon i.cs, i:l nd IAJhf'! t'(-?. i ,.
· " L:hat $850,000? I do not l~.hj 11 k the M'i. n i . s b>.r' of Hous:i.ng (Mr·. Pede h) knows very much about :i.t. Mcly bE! he does .
MR. CHAIRMAN: The hon . the Minister of Housing.
MR . PEACII: Jus 1·. ,-,,~; i. l: t'f! l..:-1 i'·.H s l:o I'.: h.:~ t: particular pal''Ct'::'] of land, and the 1: o !> 1: , U11-:• p .-u· c c'• ·1 o f J. i:\ n d t n qt.H:~sLion 1.~1as otJJI'IE:'CJ by 1\lti:•tAifoundJand ;:nld l .. :lbt'ddOr' i-IOIIS·i.ng. fl : L<ld S a p p r· a :i. s e d by u s to bE:! v '-" 1 u E~ d <:1 l !; onH;! dP 1. r;o, 000 bt:! c ;-111 s t·:! of L h:=! ! ... y p:=of land :it IAJas. Jt IAJi'.ts us~=!d as a sod i-;.H'nl ;~ 1·. 0111:! t:·i.11ltc', i L L<Jd!> /.Onecl as agr·:icuJ tUJ"a1, and t-ht:! Hous:l ng Co r· pot' i:l i: · i o n cl'i. d p r· o v i. cl E! 1: h c:t t·: parcel of Jand for a cost of $1. ')0' 000 .
MR. RI1KER: Mr. Chairman .
MR. WELLS: That has nothing to do with it .
MR. CHAIRMAN: The hon. Uw JfiE!Iflber For Gi'.Hldc·H' .
MR . BAKER: Just to folJow that along a little Fur·th~~r, I do nol·: knocAJ 'i.F LhE! m~l nister· realizes, but maybe j f I p II t·. 1'. h H q 1,1 t:! S I~ ·i 0 1'1 ·j n r:l S J i. g h t: l. 1j dj ffE!rE:~nt tJJclY. ThE! E!qU::i ty in ~') fH'll l'l 9 l<kl ! ) ;:Hll'll) l.lrl 1: I'! cf by 1·. h P Pl"c,~rn:i.E~r· l.o bE• $2.S m::il.J:jon ca~;h, p'l11!; U1H L-n1d. 1(!1 ·. w ; For•gt=~l·: about. any othE:!I" fj gur·P !; nOlA!. II l~li'I.S o:ll'lill)l)l'il::'!d Uhl.l: i:h(! (i!Cjll 'i.l:.y wouJcl be $2 . 5 rnilJion, plu s the 1. ;:1n d . N 01~1, ~~Jt·) h ;-llH) 'r, 1 . r) crri. J.l. i. on cash put. j n, i-.lnd thE! qu~~st:iun Js: Ho1~1 do yo11 ::!xpl <·\ i.n Lhl'! d:i ffc,,r·c,~ncc,~? Vc,~J"Y sirnply, t:hat. ::is l.hH Ci'''''" !: ·Lon . M.:-lyl:l<-:! l:he nri n L~; bH' understands that.
No. 6'7 1~3H'76
MR. CHAIRMAN: -, - he-~ hon . l : h~~ r-1i.n ·i. stc,'t' of Hc.:1dl.l :h .
DR. COI..I..I:I\JS : At t·hj s ~:hOI" '[ not:ice, T cannot
g i. c; c- ~ 0:1 s l:r' i~ i 9 h l: .:Hl s IMC·H' 1:0 U1 i:ll: b II 1:
j f 'l. he C OOII'Id t [- P. E~ IAIO lJ J d J j k E:1 1 j f
1-.h.:!y l~kHli : l:o pr'c)t:c-:!:~d 1~J'i.t·.h l·.hc-:!
bu~::ill("!!;f. bE-!fOI"f! thE:1 COfllrn :i'l.tEH1
1: o d •:\ y , 1M f) bl i. l.l. 1-."' b) · i.l: ;:\ s no 1: 'i. c c-:!
a11d g:ivc-1 U1~~ 'infol"fllett:i.on as eetrJy
i'ls possi.bl.0.1. Tl-. rnc.~y no!'. bH l:odi:1Y~
bu1 IAIE:! l~o.li11 ge:d. it and br:ing :it.
b i:l c: k b 0.1 For' 1:1 1:: h 1:1 H o u s :~ c; o 111 p J. 1:1 h c1 s
:it-s bu~dness :in this sess'ion.
MR. WFLLS : Mr· . C ha i. r'llkHl .
MR . CHAtRMAN : The hon. the I .. E!ader of the
Opposition.
MR. WELLS: I have no prob] E:'Hi with doing
tJJhd h->.Vf)r is conv:->. ni.e n 1·: l:o
f8cilitate de8]ing with the
bus i. n ~) s s o F t: h C"! Ho u s ,,, , b u 1-. 1~1 h ~~ n
the 8nswer· cor11E~S back I !Aiant. to be
db l..:! l·:o c:ornnJccHli: on i. l: <Hld T de) no 1:
tlld n t. 'l. o b r:~ -t. o 1 d T am ou-t-. of
or•dc,H' . [ 1~1011l.d l·i_kc-:! i:O kn01~1
bc-!fot"e th:i s flli:-l t.-l.Pr :.is ~Jot:E~d.
C C) It l. cl I~J H pI) ') S ·_i b l. y i:llj t' I·) c-:! I: 0 p i.·l ~; !;
i-J. J J o t-. h e I'· "--' s p e c:-t: s of . .i-l: , E~ x c e p t
1: h is cHlf:' 1 iHlcl t' c,1l.J c-) t' 1: 1:o ·i. 1·.
tofiiOI"r·oiM :in corurn:i.t:h:~e. bE'-~cause !Ale
1~1 L l. l. b ~) h H r· f! . Why no 1- 1". h ;., I . ,
I:H:~ c a u s E~ I 141CH1 t-. t h o o p p o r· t u rd t y t o
bl.;! dbl..:! 1-:o acldt'f.!s~; i. i:, dc·)FJI>.nd ·i.ng
on IAJ hat: ·l he i:ll'l s we r· s Cl r e . T h a ·t j s
l.. hr~ diff ·i.c:ult:y 1~1iLh 1~Jhr:1i: ·is
suggE!Sl:C"!d in providing :it as an
answer to questions.
MR. CHAIRMAN : Thl"! hon. Hw M i.n i.s 1-:l->.r' of lh~;,,l.t:h .
OR . COLI.TNS: T arn sur'C:1 thE! hon . Lc"!ader• of lhe
Opposi.l:.Lon knoLus l:hal-. i·:hr:!t'c'! iilr'~:!
o 1-h e r· f i n a n c E>. b i 1 ] s c om i. n g u p ,
I. 31l'/7 July 11- ~ 1.91lll Vo 1 X I.
ot:hc-?.r matt:eqns ar·e going to comE!
bc-)fOt'n l: hc·) HoiiS::! , i:1nd you could
commE:'tl-t in that venue.
In add:i.t:ion to the1t, thE:! Hou~; e can
do l}lh;~ 1: ·i. l: l)li:li'l ~-.~; by l c,' dl)l:! t:lnd 1,£)1';!
havc::1 no ptnobJ.ern, et-1-. t:h :i!; point. :in
1·. 'i filf) I s ;,, y ·i. n y U1i:1 1: \}Jh c-:• n l"ll'! p t' o v-i. cl ~~
the::! infor·mation, 1h(,! HouSE:! 1Adl1
g ·i c;o I: he-) hon. l.c~i·ltlc:!t' of l·: ht>
Oppos:i·Uon lt>ave For· an
i:1p~li' ' Opr··i_;,11:c-) r·::!Sponsc'! l·: o Lhc'lt:
j nfonna'l-:.:i.on.
I think it would bE:1 unrE:'asonablE! ,
dnd r: .:-1m sur·~~ i·_hH hon. l __ ,~;,1dl'!r' oF
the Opposition does not expect
1: h :i. s I t h a I~ we IAIO ul. d s c·l y IAit! 1;.1 i. ll.
bring in thE! information and thE•
hon . l .. ~~adc-'!r' of lh~~ Oppos.it.ton
would have, say, two hours, to
comfi!E!nt on ·i_ l~. He !Aioul.d havE~ 1:. ·.i.IIIE!
for a fully adequate and sui tab] e
r' e s p o n s lc~ . I 1-: h i n k 1-:. h d 1·: lA Ieo! o n t. h ·i. s
s:ide, anyway, I do not: knolAI if our
friends in the NOP would give like commitments to give ]eave in thCl 't:
111 i:HHl H t' I I:) 1 1 l-. c c:! t' I: •d. n l. y o n t·:. h i. s
!delE~. w~~ wou1d g:ive }E:!c\Ve in that
l~li.~ lj .
r-'1 f? . B " K F R : Mt" . C ha i nncll'l .
rJ!R . Cl·l" U~MAN: ThE:~ ho n . ·t 1·1 E:1 riiE~rnb e r· f o I" Gc!l'ld e r· .
MR. RAKFR : Ont-:! fllt' i .hHr' qu:~!; 1: i un T IAiou l d l. i. kP
the minister to address Clnd it was
a l. t' o ad y t' ;,d s r~ d by U1 :~ I .e ad ~H' o F
the Opposit:ion, but I do not ·th~ink
,-,ln drJSI~JHt' l£1dS gi.cJC'!I'l. f do nol
know if the minister understood
t. h (~ q u E'! s 1: i. o n o r· n o 1:. .
There SE:'E!ITIS to be a var :ianCE! hE!lne
oF $120 rni.l.li.on. l IArill Li"Y l:. o
explain it . The 1987-88 budgetNl
f Lgur·e I£JhE~n -i_ 1-: lAid!> t'~>. v i.sud !Alas
revtsc::~d do!Amwards by about $75
rrri.l.l ·i. on . t '"'' ·i.1.1 s l·.: r:ll" I-_ tAl i.l:. h 1:.11 d i:. .
When it lAias revised, :it IJJa s
No . (j 'I 1n wn
I'" E:' U j S ~! d d OIJJriiAliH' d by about: $7S uri.ll.Jon .
No1~1 i·:hf~n. i:lt. l·.hat point you knc:~l~l about :it because the Special War·r·i.'lnts hc1d dlt'f~ady b~~~,~n :lssuc.~d and i:hal kind of stuff, so you say that.: thc:~t fi.gur·C:~ do~~s nor. hauo l:o be changed . I understand that.
HotAlBUt~r·, t.ha t lfll'~dns t:ha r. 111~~ans that whereas the expenditure r· e u i. l> ~~d d OIAJI'll.o~ld r·d by $ '7 5 1rri.l.l i. on. d
nurnbet'· of dE:'par·tnlE:Hll: s, ten or ·r.t~Jel.u:~ dc.~par·t:tnc:!nl-.s hr~r·c:~. Tf t- he"' Mln:istE:1r CJf Health <-lnd thP Gov:H'tl111Hn1: Houso l.Hi:ldE-~r· dt'l-~ 9o ·i.ng to ar·gue. I t!JouJd prefE-11° to tAlcdt un i· i.l. l'.hH I) r i.t·d s hl'!d Uw·i. r· ,-,n·gunl!-) n-1:'
0 k i .~ y , 1-.1-H) •'1. mo 11 n i: ,,.,;., s r· 1;! lJ"i. s c) d downwat'"d by $7~ rn:i11:ion . Now tAle ,·.H'I:1 l:l)l.d <Hld 1m:1 l'li~l)l·) kno1~Jil l-or· ~:on1~-! t:it'IIE·! -that: tiHH' E:! tAJ~:!I' ' e cer·tajn dep.-H·I-nH'!I'Ih; 1-.h<:l'o-. OlH:'t'Spenl: by $tlri urill:ion or· $46 m:i11:ion. You hiHH:! g i l) f'! n 1.1 S t h 1:1 r• :- ~ i·l S'l) 11 S r-1 l'l d I) 0 1.1 h i·1 IJ !·)
shown u~; thE-~ SpE:!CiaJ Warr·an ·t.s . T h d 1: Ill!:! •:Hl s Ul"' 1: t h (:! !) UH:H'
dE-!par·trnc:'nts not Jlsted her·e thE:Hl tnust. h~ue unclcH·spPnt-. by ~P?O m:iJl:ion. to resul -t: in the $75 tn .il.l.i.on r·pducl:.:i.on in t0Xp~~ nd'i.Lur·rc~.
I can sc;!f!! Ol'l(!! ol.:ht:!r' c-:!xplctnat Lon . I can see that the Sprung thing b E>..i n g d n r-~ tAl h 1::1 a d i n g • s o y o u IAJ o u J. d have to account .for that here anyway. It would not recll.ly be an ovE'!r Axpenditure.
Flu l: r '~lo n d r-~ r· 'i. f 1-. h t! rn:i. rl'i. s i::H' c r)lll d provide us wi~h a Jist of the d E! p elr' I: 111 e n 1: s 1: h ''' i : 11 n d e r' s fl t-:! n i: <:11'1 cl b 1J hot41 fllllch. Tam :i.nh:!l"Osted for· ·i_ 1'1 S 1:;~ l'1 C: 1:' 1-_ h !·) f)!.:! fli,H' 1: nJ!'! j' ) 1: I) r Tr·nn~;por1 at.:i on :i ~: no1 1-.i sh-!d hE-n"e ·~S Oi'lt-:! or 1-.l-lt-:! dt-:!piH'i-.nHHll:!; Lhi:li: o~HH'~;pE!I'It. ThP quE~ ~d .. ion j ~; t hE:~tl, i. r Uw y II n d I'! r· s p I'! n i : I Ul f! l l by h Cll~l llltJC:h cUd ·t hPy und(·!t'·spend? Oid l:ht-:!'J l.J nclt-:!t'S flt:!nc:l ·i_n r;odd 1~1cwk, 0:1 nd t.h:ings l:ikc i.h :is? Wi:l.s thEH'E:!
I 3B7B J 1.1 'l. y /.~ I l 9 ll B Vol XL
under --expend:i tur'E! caused by t hc-:d I" n o i-. r' t:! .:-\ l. l. y c ,·_=t r·· · i. n g .:'t b o 1.1 1': r· o <:'t d s getting pauE:'d? I do not knoLu, so 1: IAIOUl.cl l.'i.l<:'! 1-.o knot~l hOIAI I'IIU Ch t. hC'' other departments underspent and f o t' IAl h a t r' r-~ a s o n s a s IAH!! 11 ? T t: 'i. s something which should be easily obtained wiLh no diff i culty.
MR. CHAIRMAN : T h e h o n . t·:l·w M i n i s h:! r· o r-- H t-:! a 1 t: h .
DR. COLLTNS: I could -get Uds 1- :igurP , bu L I l~lOUJ.d l.·i. kt-~ Lo pt.li: SOIII!;;! i: h :i. ng l: o \:hr.:. hon. mE!mber·. As you I< notAl, th(=! Pub 1.- i. c 11 c co 11 n l: s t~ri. -, l b ~ ~ b r· o ug il r: ::in. usu<-..t]ly thE:1Y ar'E:! bl~ ought .in i n Oc h :li:H~t· , T l: h·i nk, 1\JOlJC:•nll:wr· r'1 l·: Lh e ]('{t E:~ st. but a nytAJay, u s uaJJy Oci:nbt·)t', i:lnd ·i il l hr:! Pub l. ·i c A c c o u n t ~; a J ] + h c-1 s e 1- h ::i n g s iH' E:' J a :.i d o 11 L UH:' I" 1-:1 • C l r.h~ r·l y t,.JI H'! n 1': h e budget was being compiJed in l-1-~bt'lli.H ' Y· IAJ f ! d ·i rl"' sor·l: or nr.in "i. Publ:i c Account s to SP e t,o.lho tAJ dS l.lndr"!t'spr:!l'lci ·i.ng i:lnr:l ~; o on dncl s u for·th.
We could do it again now in r· e !; p o n s e t-.o 1·.: h f~ me rn I:H>. r· 1 s r· ~;;! q u E! s I_ but it r· e ally wo u 1 d be a b :i t or a job to QE!I:. i. t clone'! ancl T atrt not:. certain it would be very useful knot~ri.ng thai·: lt lo~Jas goi.ng l:o come in the Public Accounts anyway .
So if the han. member l· d k P 'i. t t-. h d t i-.11 (~ s e 1~1i. l. l. laid out in the Public r:h i. nk I: hr.\ 1: qu~~s +· ion .:-~n s wet'I::H:f .
~1R . SU.IJMS: Mr·. Chai rrnan .
MR . CHAIRMAN:
w=L 11 jus t bt.:. cl. E:1 ar•l.y
Accounts, I IAI 'i_l_l be
llw hnn. Counc:i].
Uw f>t'r·)S ' i ril'!ill : of~ i:hH
MR. STMMS : r.IJr· . C h d i. Y'l'lli:l !'l, l:tJ s ~~<-:~k c] ar·j fi c cd :ion. I galhc->. r t:: he d e ba-L e:~
1\Jo . 6 7 r~3H78
~
thus far' :l.s concluded. So just to
u nd et' s h •md, l: h(:~ 1. Hdd c:H' of l: hH
Oppos :ition asked a sppc:ific
q u H s L "i. on 1.1n d c'~ r· L h t~ h ::! d d i. n g of
RUI"a], (lgl"icu] tur·e and NorthE:~rn
0 e v H 1. o p 111 t~ n 1: , .:~ n d s o U1 r-:~ p r' o r: H ~; ~;
suggE-~!d_E:~d :i !; t·hat lolH:! would carTy
,,~ tJ ~~ t' IJ 1: h i. n g f! l. ~; (·~ ~~ x r: o p 1-. 1: h ,.~
:; c h e d u J e a s :i t- r· E:! 1 a t: E:~ s t. o t h a i
lw.~d i.n::J, Cr'll.l 1-.h i.s ~ti n:i s 'l.N·
i:Hl d UHHl l: om o t' t' o ~~~ I)W
Ol"clt,H' 0!- biiS'i.nc·:!S !). of H(c!alt.h, Ol"
l~)"i 'll r h ,,~
'1. hE:~
M i. n i.s l : c,~r · of F i. ni.'tnct,~ 1~1ho llli:liJ · i.ndt·~~)d
b E:~ b a c k , c i:ll'l g Ed. u p a tJ d r· E>. s p o n d t o
l.:hc,~ qiJC-:>!> 1: i.on.
MR. B~KF.R:
A point of order, Mr. Chairman .
ThCit is un(:t"E:n' Finance, not. under
R AND . [ b e l. i. l-'! v l-'! 1J o u 111 c,HJ 1-. -j o rH~ d i. t under Rural, Agricultural and
Nor' l:hc-?.r'n 0E~Vc-?.1opliH:~n 1~.. T ~: ts undE!t'
F:lnance.
DR. COLLJNS : I think you an~ right.
MR. SIMMS: J i'Hil sorTy! It is under Finance .
~3o \.IH,~ t~d.l.l p .:t s s r-~ tJ t:! t' 1J 1~.lri. n ':3 up i".o
thE:! SC:hE:!dUJ.~1, paSS i:ll] the
sd1<->.dul.e ~)XC!,~pl: for· l: ht·) J>i_ niHlCI·~
spc-~c-:i i'.ll. lolli'll''l''i'll'l"l . s lJJE~ ar·(.,o tCJ.J l<:i.ng
·~~bou1 : , ·~nd l:hl'!n i·.h(·) r~·i.ni.si·.l·:!t' of
F :i nan c: c-~ or· t. he. M :i rd ~d . E> r of HE~ a1 t. h
1~ri. l. 1. t' 1-) s p o n d 1-. o i : 1·1 I'~ q 1 It·~ ~; 1: i. o n ;~ !; ~~H)
call :i t. as thE-! f :i ,.: s 'l- o l"C:l E:H' of '1. h 8
di:·l~. Tht~~ I n;,ldl·H' of 1-.ht,' Oppos ·i, i:·i on
C:i.HI cont.:inu<-:! the debate in
SUI!lnldt'Y, Or' I~Jhi,li··. f:~l.JE.'r , btll·.
E~vPnt.ually lJJe l.U~ill bl":ing :it to a
concl.us ·i.on and rnove on 1-:o r:HlOUHH'
:i-I~E:!fll . Is that the under·standing I
hdVE-)?
MR. WELLS : T h a t .i. s f i_ rw . T have no p r' o b l <=' 111
lAI:i th that. I just t.uant to make
sure that we hdve an adequate
opporttJn :i.t.y to d~H·l] lJJ :i th that i tE!ITI
l.llhi:Hl l:he i:HlSIAH'!t'S •H'<:'! g i V:~fl, and
1.3879 July IJ, 1988 UoJ XI
move an amendment, if necessary .
MR . SIMMS: ~~ 1-~ h <:w e no p t' o b l.::! 111 t~J'i 1: h U1 d 1: , r"' r· . Cha:i r·rnan, =if you clre pr·eparE!d L. o
c;~l.J l:hc:' r·e~>l: oF i . l~ , I~Jhah,,~Jer'
there is -t-o call.
Resolution
Thr•11: ·i. L ·i.s t-~XfH:!di.c:!n1: Lo inl-:r·oduce
i:l mf:!aSUI"e to provjdE! for th E~
gr·;,,ni.·i.ng l:o llc:!r' Mdj e:~s 1 ·.~ for'
dE:1fr·ayj ng certain expens~~s of thE:!
Pub J. i. c S (-'! r· lJ ·i. c t' For 1'·. he F :i. n c1. n c i. al.
year ending the 31st. day of
MrH' c; h' 1. 9 8 8' thl-'! s Ulll of f Ot'ty ... fi. v (;!
mil.lion eight hundred and
s .i.xr.~ - s i.x l:.hous d nd F i.ve hundred
dollars ($45,866,500).
On motion, resolution carried .
On mot·i.on, clausos land 2 cat't'i.ed.
On motion, schedulE!, u.r.ith thE!
~?.xcc~pi:·i.on of UH~ [)r-~prH'l:IIIOtl'l·: of
Finance, carrj ed .
On mol:·ion, l : h;~l· : !-llH Connn:.i. 1-.: b~e
r i s e , r' e port pro g r c-:> s s and as k
1 :·~ d V f~ I: 0 S 'i. l: ;.-H.:J <.-l"i. n , r"l t ' . :') p (~ d k E' t'
r·~~t·ur·ned to the Cha:.i I" .
0 n mo t. j _ o n , r· E:' p or' l I" E:! c c,~ :i. v e d a n d
'-"dopl·.:·:!c:l, Cornllri.l·.i·y~C! tH'd tn'r-:!.d i··. o s ·i. l:.
Ct.gi'.d.n, pl"(:~sently by ](~ave.
MR. SIMMS : r~r . ~') p f~"' I< r:~ r· .
MR. SPE(li<FR : ThE:~ hon. thE! Presjdent of the c o 1.1 n c ·i. l .
MR. SIMMS: M r' . S pH .:'\ k 1:! r , T h a v <:'! a aH->. s s a g ('! f r' o rn
His Honour the Administrator.
MR. SPEAKER: 1 Gover' l'lHlf:! n i :
No. 67
House, :n~ . John 1 s
R387 9
N :~I~J f o 11 n cll.o.u1 d , .J 11l. y 11. , l91JH.
To 1··.111:' F:.i ncHICE:1 .
hon . Ull'! r-'lin'i.s l:Ht' or
I, the Province
~ d uri. rd s t:r-"' hH' of Net~otfoundJ and,
of Ul!'! transmit
e s 1~. i. Hlc:d: E! ~; of s u IllS r· e q u i.r- ~~ d for· t: h t'! Public Service of the Province for \:he yecH' C:H1d ·i.ng the 3lst . day of March, 1989, by IAJay of SupplemenLr:n·y Supply r.n1d i. n accordance !Adt.h the provisions of T h ~=! co n s t J t. u 1·. -L o n n c 1·: , lll 6 'I , I recommend Lhese estimates to the Hous1-:! of Ass~~mbl.y.
No c,~ 1. Go oc:lt· i. cl g ~:~ Adrn:in:ist.n .. d.or·. 1
MR. SIMMS : Mt"~ . ~) p r~ d k (-:1 r~ .
MI'L ~) P F ~ I< 1;: R : TI 1E·! h o n . 'l l·w Council .
r1R . STMr'l~'l :
Mr· . SpPaker·, T nil:' S S o:·lg I'! 1".09 1:~ 1: h 1:! t' b0. r· ef f! r-r- E:!d to Supply.
Pl"E'!!;-.i den t of thE:'
mo V E:• t.hai:. th8 IAri.l : h l: h1·) dTIIOIH1i: a Committee of
On mot i on, that the House resolve ·i,l-_s,,df i.nt.o d Cotn111U:l-.E'!!~ of i:he Whole on Supply to consider the tnessagp fr·out ILLs Honour· 1·:1-H>. Admin::i str·ator·, Mr·. Speaker J.eft l:he Cha i.r·.
MR. CHAIRMnN : Order!
Resolution
Thi'J.i. :i.i :i.s E~xped::iEHII·: ·lo JntJ"oducE:! d ITH'! i.~ ~>In· f! I: 0 p t• 0 IJ ·j d ~~ 1- 0 t' I -.i-1 (!
gr · i~nt :i ng t.c1 HPJ" Mclj ~~!d y for· cl (! r r· .. ,, y i. n g c (! r· 1·. i:1 i. n iHI d i. H . I) n i ., 1. E~XIJC·!I'ISE-~!; of 'l. h<-' PIJbl:i.c SE~r·vicCc! fOI" l~ h~-~ l-i. n<.111 1: ·i;,,1. yH•~t" r-~ndi. ng l·:hl·) 31·;::
I 3880 July ll, 1988 Vol XI
d i.~ y 0 r r-'1 i:l r· c h ' tiAJent y-f our· ($2l~,OOO,OOO).
MR. SIMMS:
'1.9 H9, 1:111·:! nr.ilJ. :i on
s urn of dol laJ" S
Mr. Chr:dr·utr'ln, u::- l llk1Y n>.L'II::E! briefly what transpired, the r·e c f>. n 1-. ag t'\>.e1n~>. n t: w·i. 1.: h 1.: he,~ feel e r·a 1 government provides for some addi.l~'i.onal. fundoi.ng i .n ERD() l:o do some transportation projects, and l·:hat. dddi 1 .. i ondl funcl ·i. ng, of course, is cost-shared. But a s hdppE>.ns on occas ·i.on, <:'tnd has happened many times in the past, ~~Jhal: i.s t'l·:!qt.ti. t·~:!d nOIAJ i.s cr:qsh FJ.o1AJ to carr·y on these tr·anspotntat:ion pr·oj1,~c:1 : s, l:o cdl.l l: hP t:E>. nder·s ''tltd -to cllJ.Jare thE! pr•oj <:'<:t:s. Until IAJE:' 91'!1: ·~·lppr·ov.~l ror· l·: ilal~ k i. nd of fund:ing that cannot be done, so UYi. !; ·i. !; ,., c 1: 1.1 i:ll. l y "' :') 11 p pl. r=! rtll'! n +:"' r· y Supply bill for t.hat par t icuJ.at" p11 r·po !; c,, .
Tl1 o dfllOIInl i. s $ 2<1- mi.ll. ·i o n . I guE:~ !;s the rn i n:ist.E:!F' hfls tabled th<;! 1.- i. s:: ·i. n l:ho llo LJ<>r·~, hi:l s l·1r:•?
r'lR. DOYLE: : Yes, that was t abJ.ed a c oup1 E:' of IAH'. r~ !< S o:·l lj!) .
MR. SIMMS: Y <>. s , h e t a b J. E'! cl l: h ~?. J. i . ~; 1: o f projects in the past . F::ss\?. nt.'i;:~l.J.y, t:hal~. ·i.s IAJhat th·i s particular Supplementary Supply R·i.ll -i. s c'\11 dbout, a nd i.l ... i. s IAr.il: h pleasurE~, thE!rJ, Mr·. Cha:irman, that T 1novc,~ l·:h~-:~ r'('! Sol.ut-i.on.
MR. WFLLS : Mr· . Chi-.dr'frti'Hl, IAJE! pas s ed thE• budgE!L o n T h 11 r· !; d ''' y r:1 n d 1~!1'! d 1. r· H i:l d y h <.'1 u P d supp1E!mE'ntat"Y supply t:o this yt~c'\t' 1 s biJdg c:! 1: . TI~Jo or· 'I')H'I'! r ~ ckty s la'l:c,!t'· , WE! have,~ a supplE:!rtlentaJ"Y supply bill.
MR. TI.II..K : One day . One s ::i l"" t :i 1'1~3 d dy, no t t:p d . l·y o IH:! r· .
No. 6 7 rna so
MR. WELI.S : One sitting day .
T. atn no l~ qu 'i.l·.ro! sut"o 1~1hy t:he
gover·nrrtE!nt :.i.s FH'oceed:.i.ng Uli.s IAJay
i.nsh'!dd oF \llOl)"i.ng ,,,rn,~ndtrH~nl::; Lo
the:! budge"!:. Of cout"SC-:!, you ccHI do
i.l: 1-:~U:hc~r· I~Jdy. (lnyl~li.~y. ·i.l: ·i. s i.{
pE-~cul.:i 1-lt":i.ty l h<:d. does noi- happr:Hl
v rn· y f r· r,~ q 11 f:' n l ·. l. y , ·L f ·i. 1: t-:! l) c·H'
hclppr:Hrr:~d b~~for·p. J nrn not quj. t·E!
Sl.li"l·~ ·i.r I~JH h,·l\JC'! (!U(!T' h;,u·l
~;uppl.enrentat"Y supply IJJ:i -t-h:i n t1.1.1o
c:J ; ~- y s C) r rn I) l) ·i. l"lo.j 1:1-ll-~ b IJ d y !-) 1-. •
:1nyl~li.·\y, f·~r·. Ch;,d.r·rn<Hl, 1-.!Ti.:; i.s lol-w
p o I" k - b a n· c-\ ll. :i. n g , i. h :i (; :i s ·H 1 E:~ :i r· liH~·'IrlS or spr·t~i:H:I i.ng $1.00 HLi.lJ "i.on
cH'OlHid, this js the b1ood monr:~y
for· l·_h(~ r'd.ili~Jdy. This "i.s l~lhi.-\1: ·i.L
:is. This ·.is tJJha"l: we ar·e voting on
now, and we best know it and
rea1ize exactly what we are
doing. Thls i.s lhe blood money
for which they soJd the raiJ.way,
-!:0 get CICCl:~SS to r::lrl i.lllllll::~d·i_.:~l-. e $l00
nd 1lion in cash so that they could
carry out: fH'Ojf~cts "i.n HHdr pr:~t
areas to do the government the
HIOst pol:i.t.ici:\1. good. l.et. us
understand it. Let us not be -
MR. TULK: Pol:iticaJ. good for what?
Mf~. WFL.I.S: W t:! l. l . , T ~; 11 s p c'! c: 1: i.Hl r-~ ·1 r:' c: I: 'i. o n ,
hopr::~ an el.c->.ct:i.on flri'..IY bt:! not
r•'H' di~Jdy.
or· I too
r-11 )'"' . c h ~~ i. r· Til iHl I r d C) n C) 1·. h ;,, I) 0. 1. h (·~
J·.i !;t j n fr·orr·l of nw ·t-.abJ.~>d by thE~
f.ll:i. rl"i. ') I· 1:~ r· C) r T r· i:Hl s p C) t • 1·. i'l {·. ·j C) n ' b II 1·. T
1~1ouJ d Ll b~ l.o SE~C,! j l. If h~'! has
on::! 1·. o ~; :~ n d a c r' o s s 1·: o me , T. ~~Jo 111 d
just Jjl<~~ to l.etkc->. a qu"ick look at
i. l:.
nw 't> .:u1. rn 'ill "i. on H1"' !··. i s b cd n g
v o t ~~ d rn E! iHr s , J be] t eve , that the
f~?.der· a1 gov~H'nllll:~nl: i.s going t.o
contribute a fed r·ly substantial
amount.. TI'H"! l·.:ol :al. fl-:'d~H·al sum "i.s
I 3 8 81 July 4, J 988 Vol XL
$~1,923,000
this surn. Lo b(~ us r:~d agdJ.nst:
MR. TULK : What?
MR. WELLS : Thai: ·i.s d:; T n:~i.-\d H: h!H' I:~. That
Js thE:~ figun~ that is :in thE:H'E!, i:\ nd fHH' hi·\ p s Hw uri. n i. -; hn· 1~10 ul. d
C-'!Xplain to r11e exact.Jy how much of
lhc-~ :~JOO 111ill.ion l.ot:;:rl is
rE~pr·esC-!tl"l-.€:!d by this voL:i ng
i:llll:hor·i.Ly l:h ;~ l i.s iJH·ing g:iuf:!n
hc-:!rE:~, b~~ causE:! I to~.tou1 cJ 1 -.i. k E'! t:o k no1o~.1
hor~J rnlic:h t'Hnld ·i.ns.
MR. TUI.K: What do you mean, ·i. n r~ll UHdr· s hrH'I·~
they nout?
ar·e putt ·in g
MR. WELLS : No. The provincial share is, I do
not remember lf Ll: ts $32.5
million and the federal share
$67.S million, or the prov i ncial
share is $37.5 milJ.ion and $62.5
m'illion Federdl..
MR. DOYLE : $62.5 million federal .
M R . 1,.1 F I. L~) : Now, does tl'Li s r·epr·esent
:~Xj:>(~l"lc:l·i.l:llt'c'• or '\)/. 1~ Hri.l.l_·i_on of
$37.5 nri11:ion? Is th".is IAJhat
si.l:u;,ll:·i.on ·i:;? l nut:!d l:u knn1~1.
r-1 f~ . s H"lr"':) :
·!:he I: he thE!
WhalE:'ver· the ccAsh f10I.i.l r·p qu :i r·r::-d
for· l:ilc·~ pr•oj f!C 1:. Tllr-:! f:::d~H',·ll
g o v e I" n rn E:Hll ' s p or· ·t. :i o n '"'' o u J d b c,!
t' t'! · i. 111 b 1 1 r· s c-:! c:l 1: o I: h ~ ~ P r' c) lJ ·i. n c c,~ . :::; o ,
it is $?4 rn:11Jion l.i.JC!l"l:h c,f
p r· o j H c 1-. :; 1·. h"' 1-. i:ll" c-) c: o s 1-. .. ~; h"' rod .
Mf~. Wf.I..I_S : That are cost-shared .
MR. SIMMS: Of ~:he $100 mlll:ion .
MR . WELI..S:
No. 67 R3 881
or $/
l:hi:\1:, and i.1: i·!pp!:~iH'S i:hi-\1: i:\b0111 · nd ll l on of ~i.l ~ $/4- m:i.llion
l~lf'!r':~ cos 1: " !;l·ldt'l·:!d, $71,973,000 Js coming tjOlJt~t·nntf:'i'li·.? fs under·stand~i ng of :i i.? q u i. h~ u n cl<:! r s l:r.'1 n d ~~~1·1 .:1 1.
or l)jh i. c h fr·om thE•
·U1i.~l:
I do I,, . . ) s ~~ :-.
i-Hid J ar11 not· sur·r:~ that the,~ goVEH'nHIIHl~: doc,~s. RE:!for·c,, 1•1<·~ vol:e on :it, Mr. Cha'ir·man, I wouJd 1'ike l::o knotll (;!xacl·.ly IAlhat. l~lE~ art-?. doing and 1.uhat is br:d ng spent by whom?
MR. BAI<F~R:
Mr·. Chair·man.
MR. CHAIRM()N: The hon. the member for Gander.
MR. BAKER: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
l ~lE! t' 1:~ 'i. s f.Ul 0 1: h ::! t' lfl'i. n 0 t' I IIi~ ·1: 1: H t' 1~ri. I. h r·pgar·ds i.o thE:! scheduJE:! on t:he lhH:k. Fh~for·~-:~ T. poi.ni: ·if: out, T IAI.i sh son1ebody wer·t~ foJ J o1.ui ng OVC:!r' l:her·r,~ !;O I co11 hi l·~xpli:\ in l:o l:hHm what l llll'::!an .
AN 1101\J. MFMflfR: (J11audibJ~) .
r"'r~. fl()KFR: Oki:ly. On thE~ back of the b:i 11, Mr· . Hous,,~ Lt1r'idE!r' Uh'. :?i.unus) T nA n s p o r· t c-.~ t. :i o n 3 . 1 . 0 1 , w h a t y o u h a v E:' ·i. s 1·: h e e s t-. i rn d 1: t-?. s F r· I) m Hli'! Rudgr:~i. and then the Supplementar-y Supply r:ldded on. ·1\JOI•l l:.h,,m I Uwr·e is a tota] of $1,100 1000 for ad rn i. n i. s t. r· r:'\ 1-. i. v ~~ s u p p o r· i:. T f l;lC-?. look down to 3.2.04, the second l. o t h e r· t:~ , No . l 9 I V o t: f~ cl i. n 0 1:: h '=~ r· Divisions and there 'is also $1 1 100 1000. ls '1-.h<.~t. H1e Sdlllf'! $1,100 1000 as was above?
MR. SIMMS: (JnaudiljlE:!).
MR. fl()KFR: 1\J o I I am t i'.l J lei n g a b o u t ~i n t h E~ ~>upplt~nlf:~nt.u·y ~>11ppl y 1'101)1.
UBH:?. July LJ I J 988 VoJ XL
r-1f~. D(.)~,JF:
It is-- not the same $1, ]001000 ( ·i. 1'1 i:•\ II d 'i, b l I·) ) .
MR. RAKFR: It :i.s not thE~ samE! $],1001000.
MR. DAWE: :r d o n o t. 1: h .i. n k s o .
MR. BAKER: Is that correct?
I <!WI IAla.it:.ing For· souH,~ conf i.r·rnat:Lon .
MR . SIMMS: Carry on with your comments.
MR. BAKER: flu t T n f~ e d t. o k n ot)J .
MR. SIMMS: ( C n au d ·i. b 1. e ) .
MR. flAKFR: Jf in fact that is a dJffE:•r'E:Hlt o·\ntOIIi'li:, l:hnn YOIIt' i:Oi:<.·\'f.:; i'lr'l'! not ... r·:i.ght <.~l-. thE:! botl·orn .
MR. O()WE : Voted in Other D:iv'.:isions j_ ~;
$1 1 SS0 1 000 .
MR. BAKER : T o:tm l~al.k:i.ng about-. in '!::hE! Supplementary Supply under 04 Highw.:1ys Transport Canada . There is an amount under Supp1E•rnen~:;u·y ~)1.1ppl.y No . 19 1 Vot:c.:.d In Other Divis:ionsl $1 1 100,000 . No'•'~ i.f t:hat: is ds i.l: says, 1-.hEHl your total at the bottom is lAW o n g . T h "' 1-. i s a ll T "'1r1 p o ·i. n l:. i. n g out. Jt is $1 mj]lion out or something like that.
MR. BAIRD: l·lr-:• shntll.d hdV~~ r:~n adder· OVE:·r· Lht;!r'e .
MR. DOYI..f : [ c.::tnnn 1: 11nr:lf:'t'S f· . .::tnd l)lhi:\ 1: you <.H'E:! s a y :i n g I t h a t :1 s rny p I" o b J em .
No. 67 1~388?.
L
MR. BAKfR : Okay . I. et us ag;,l i.n, bt:~Cd.LIS(·~
thE! first par·t.
MR. DOY U': : Okay .
~'If?. FH\I<F.R:
go over you d ld
ii: slowly nol·: cal~ch
I ei us go to Supp] ernentary Supply H:i.ghw.,lY'> Tr·anspor•l·. Canacld,
3 . /.0LI, just that S~!cL :ion.
MR. 00'(1 F: : y ~~ !; .
r'l R . 11 n 1< F.:r? : Und~~r· ~-;uppl~~TII~Hd iH'Y SuppJ 1J aJ one,
Tt'i.Hl s po r· 1:.~~ ·1: ·i. on and C oriiTillli'ri. c ;,,l: ·i. c) n s
$400,000; SuppJiHs - $300,000;
Pt·off:!ss ·i.onal Sc,H'IFi.cos 'r,S,OOO;
Ptn•chased Services - $22,580, 000;
P t' o p e r· :·. y , F IH' n i s h i. n g s a n d Fqu:ipn1ent $15,000: i3.nd UotE!d in
Othc:!t' D"i.v ·i.si.ons $1,100,000. Why
is that not in the total?
MR . DAWF.: : You are looking at and then you a r(~
the Estimates looking at
Is that Supplementary Supply . _ri.ght?
MR. BAKF.R : Yc~s .
MR. IJ~WF.:
Well, 'the->. fst".imatc-:!S t.:ot:a] up :in
l: h t:~ n r~ i. 9 h b Ollr' h 0 0 d 0 f- ~r, :n Til :i.ll. i. 0 1'1 .
HLd. tllhai. tJ.W ar·e a!;lcing fotn hE:!I"€~ in
i·.he Suppl.c:~IIHHH ·.dt'Y SIJppl.y ·i.~; HH)
$.?4 rr6ll :lon l.IJP know wo i'AI"e go:i.ng
1: () lj C'! 1: 0 1.1 1: 0 r 1: h c:• F f~ f)(.\ i·\ g t' (·) I·) IIH:~ 1'1 I '
14ii' J€d h~H· I)Oll 90 :i.ll'l 0 thP ...
r'IR. rut.K : Hf~ is say :i ng thf . .d. thf . .d. co] urnn of
F'i.gur·c'!s sho11l.d <.Hid 11p l·:o l:hi:ll·.
f:i gUJ"P 'l.hPI"e. It do€'!5 not.
MR . DOYLE: ~.? . 04 adds up to $22,900,000 .
L3883 July 4, 1988 Uol XL
MR. DM'Ilf: ------Out on the totals, thE!re ar·e only
hAlO f-i.gUr'c·~S. fhfH'H 'i.s $1,100,000
and a figure of $22,900,000. Put HH~ 1:\J.JO oF Uw111 l: ogc-?.ther· and Lt
Tll<'l k c~ s $ 2 4· nri.l.l ion .
MR. BAKfR: Ok.'ly, b1.1l:. l·.l'li:l 1: ~f> 1, lOO, 000 i. s acldf~d
on -
MR. DAWF. : (Im.wd:i.b] e) . l ·i.iH:!.
Thr.J.t :is the bollorn
MR. RAI([R : No, 1:1-l'i. :> ·i.s ,,J h •. \i'. 1: ''li:lll~. l: o
strai gh i..~n ou t nO IJ.J. The -
$~~.900,000 ddded on ~o the $1, 100,000 u nder· Adrn j nis ·t r·a t :i v e
Su p pI) r' i : o';\ nlO II n i : ~- t I) <J; /,lj. m 1.1.1 i. C:ll' l .
What I am sa ying is Lh e $/.?.,900,000 i. s noi·. i'.lw Sl.lirl of L:hE!
col.urnn, H::ighways -·- Transpor·t
Cr.lnddc:~, !'iuppJ.r~nwnLH' Y ~')uppl y, r''tnd
should it be?
Mf?. SJMMS: I am just checking with l:hE! tablE·
noiJJ. ThE!t'E~ i.s d poss i.b i.l it:y t.hc~l t
might have been just a misprint, ned: ,,, nrispr:i.nl:., bUI". cHl I:H'r'(H' in
printing. We are double chc,~ ck :i. ng. c,u·r·y on. You JflUSt
haue other questions.
r'IR. AAKFR : No, thf.li:. ::is know t~Jhi't 1: l:hf1
:d: .. I LJJould l:ii<E! to p r· o b 1. ~:Hn i. ~; .
r-~R. !HMMS : Any oihPr' qu8stion s piH'Li,;rt-l;u• Oi'lf! or' I)Jh•·\1·.?
on I h:i s
Ji- shouJd not be->. thPr'E:!, j ·[- ju st.
s h011l d 1101: I:JI'! Lhc:!l"(!.
MR . BflKF.f~ :
It. should no'l: b~~ l:.her·e <:1t all .
Mf~ . STfu1M!:): Yes, it is an error in Accor·d"i.ng f·.o l".he 1-.ablc,~.
No. 67
pd nU.ng. i.t ju s t.
R3883
s houl.d no 1: b~:~ l·:h~:!r'c·:! .
MR . FH\KFR: TllP pr·obl €-~r" j s I Ml" . i. f i.l: :; houl.cl no 1·.
Chcd r·rnatJ 1 thai b (-~ UHH' C:1 • i. 1:
~; h () U J. d II (l t bE~ t h €~ r· f' .
r-1R. SIMr-13: liiiE~JJ., Tarn not go :lng l~. o anstAH:!r it n o1~1 iHl y1~1a y . ~~1-J t~l'i.l.l. 1~~<:d 1: .
r-1R. RAKI~R:
We cannot vote on lhe b:lJ.l until u.1e knoliJ thr.1l·· . .
MR. SIMMS : We wi11 check it by l.:hf'! Cl. ~n·l< that in the pr·:i nti ng. a1n told r.ighl~ tlOIAI.
MR. BAKER :
out . .it That
1. (' . :>
I am told an e:n·ror·
is what I
That thE! $1,100 1 000 shouJ.d not: be:' UH:!r·e:~? Or· th;:tl: Hwrt-:1 •~IdS •:=tn c:HTcH' :in tl1e ·total?
r-1R. SIMWi : Mr· . Chii.irnliHI, if I may .
MR. CllrlJR~1rlN: T h 1-1 1·1 o n . l: 11 t-:! p r· (·~ s . i. d C·Hl 1: 0 r Ul c-:! c 0 lll"l C".i.l. .
MR. Sf.MMS : I h :i s :.i s go j n g to :i n t e rT up t l:: he h C) n , nJ[o~liJb (:! t' I b 1_1 1: [ ~~ {) 1. d h .i.lfl ~~)f'! lAd 1.1 check :it out I 1Ait::1 IA.d11 get hj m •Hl ansu.JE!t'. At•(;! t:h:H·e Any o HH:H' quest-.ions we can respond to them tJJhi.l.(:! •~Je i:lrc"! check"i.ng l:hat: 0111··.? That :is aJ 1. It. will dE~lay the IAJho1E! pr·ocess to chc-:!ck t .hAt out. WP wiJ 1 find out what the anstJJer· l. s.
MR. WELLS: Mr. Chairman .
MR. CHIHRMAI\J: ThE~ 1101'1. thE:1 I . E:~ader of the OpposLt:i.on.
MR . Wr::I.I .S :
I :l BfllJ July li, 19B8 UoJ XI
Th e this
rn i. n ·i. s ·1: ~-~ r· aruourd:s
nri.ghl : conf ·inn l~hdi: to a proposed
f~XfllHH:I"i.l:llt' c·~ of $ 3 7 . S rrd 11 :i. o n .
:~ /. 1.~ 1 n ·i. l. l. ·i o i 1 o f o u r·
SOMF.: HON . MFMBFRS : No, no.
MR. WFL.LS : Is I: h d ·1·. :j; :u~ 1rri.l.l.- i. on o u 1-. of Uw $100 mil1Jon or $24 million out of 0 U r S h ,:~ t' Co' ?
MR. DAWE: That is $24 miJ.lion out of the $100 m.ilJ.-ion.
MR. WELLS: Out of the $100 million. a n d I~ h ;~ l~ i. n c l. 1.1 cl (;! s 1:: h 1->.
contributions .
MR . DAWF:
Okay, F EH:I e r·a l
[n i-:11c,1 PS"i:'. i.HJr.lb~s H1<:·1 ·l·: arnounl:s to -
MR . Wfl.L.S: Wh "i.c:h sum i.s noi: sho111r1 LhHt·'f'! 1.11hen you 1 ook at: j n the Supp] ementi:H'Y Supply c:ol.IJJIII'l? T1: ·is shown i.n l:: he main E~s·UmatE-1 s column, but J.-t js noi: shOIJJJ'l ·i.n l:hc-:• ~)lippl.::!ntc:Hlh:tr'Y St~ppJ.y co] un1n. Is l:.hPr·t::! any t'c·~ i .·l ~; on for· l:h1-1 d · i.Ffc;! t' r-~nc(:!, ·if l.:h<'ll"". ·i. s , ·i. n fa c I~ • s o?
MR. TULK : Thc,1 r·c-:!vE~nue fr·om the '::30VI-H'tllll!-:!l11: · i. ~; l'lOl: ShOIAJtl Supplementary Supply.
MR. WF.LLS : T h a t. i. s r· i. g h t .
MR. TULK :
Ft::'dEH'a l i.n th(-?.
That whole line is out of wack .
MR. WFL.LS: I think it needs some adjusting .
MR . DAWF: Ob,J·i.o1.1 s l.y I do no 1: 1-:hi. n k '" ny of us over hr:!rE:' IJ.JE:'J"e j nvoJ.ved i n l::hcli:·. k ·i.nrl of de-~ i".r1 i. l . rh c-:! l: h i 1'1',3 is you
No . 67 R3884-
have:' $?.'1- lfli.ll.:i.on as pdr'l-: of UH~
$100 mil1 :ion, that is sixty/forty cost. sha.r·~~d dncl l:.hdt i.s l:he cash flow For this year. I guess it is a matter of trying to sort out LIJhat t.hE!Se other figures, if there i.s any d.i.scr·epancy, but-. UH~ bot.t.orn
l:ine is that $24 million.
MR. 3T.MMS : We wJlJ not try to rush through dny discrepancies. IF there are
Clrty, LllC-:! lAd 11 take thE:! mati:.E~r right.
no1~1, i.f IMC:~ Hkly, .:'tnd c:l~-:'fcH' U: l:o
g :i ~H? u s t-Hl o p p or· t u n :i. t y t. o dw c k 01.11: i:hi'tl: p;;n•l ·.·iculdr' f>r'oblr-~ 111.
OkNy, we wJll check it out for s IJ r ~) .
PP.r·h,:'l p!; i:hr:' I.Hi.'tdr·:!t' o( i·.hr!
Oppos:iLion m:lght ;;tgl"E:~<-:! ~o IAJE~ can
pul: i·: l·l"i. s on ho J. cl , nHJ r·} r· I: bi·l r: k i: o
t h P cd h E'!l'' :i t E:HII be c au ~ e UH:~
rwi. rJ"i. s t. (:0! r h ··1 !> Cc.tl'l Ci:HTY on schedul.f:! undc,1r'
;_~ n i'l n s I~Jr·:! r· , p r:' r· h i'l p s fAll·~
the debate on the Hil.l'l-1 .
MR. WFLLS : Mr· . C h cd. t'llla n .
MR . CHAIRMAN : The hon. Leader of the Opposi~lon.
MR . WFI.LS: 1 have no problc~rn. assum·i.ng ·U: is appropriate to do it under this 11101-. i.on, !Ale Cdl'l TllOVc->. 1--.I'H>. COHIIIILi-:tfH>..
MR. S fMM!3: W8 can "(io <:~nyth:i ng.
MR. WF:l.V'l : T do not: knou.J IAJh<-dhE~l" U1r.1t is
dppr·or>r··i. i:l :·c-~ or· no 1:.
MR. STMM~:
WE~ c:a11 do <Hry-Lh:i ng by d9t'EH·HnEHd .
Ml~ . !IIIFI I.S : T do rr o 1 r· cd s e :i t . I j u s t c a 11 yor1r· dl:h:1111:·i.on l:o i. i: .
MR. ~:) UIIMS :
I 3 88 5 JuJy 4, 1988 Vol XL
fh(~ Hous:~ cdn agreement, is Clerks? Correct .
do any~hing by that correct,
So we hdve agreed now to just adjourn the debate on Bill No . 67,
correct?
MR. TULI< : So t~H~ dt'e not sel-:1-.·ing d prec(,~d(c!nl:
he r'£:1.
MR. SIMMS: Wr-~ ar·:-~ lliOlJ"i.ng l:>dr:k jttsl: so l::hat
wi tho 1.1 t p l" E:~ j u d :i. c e , no pI" E! c e d E! n 1 s
~~~~-~ <·lrc,~ n101Ji.n9 b;~r:k ncu~J h) 8"i.""l.l. No .
4-1 , to d e a J tJJ:i. t h t h C:! ~; c hE! d u 1 (~ of R i.l. 1. l\J o . ,,_, . r·k . c h .:-d r· 111i.Hl c:: an .
c a J. J t he s c h 8 d u 1 <-:! . T h f:' M :i rd s t e r·
o f 1-1 r-:! H l I: h ( D r· . C o ll ·i. n ~' ) tAl ·i. ll answer the last question. The Ill!~ Ill be r· r!) t' ~.IJI-) i'l i. ll r'd< ( Mr· . F I·Hli~J"i. c k)
agrees Llrith me for sure.
OR. COLLINS: Mr•. Chd .i. r'lii<Hl.
MR. CHAIRMAN: ThC:l hon. l:hn M:i:n ·i.sl:.~:!r' of H~:!d]l:.h.
MR . SIMMS: [ am sorry . We should check here .
SOME HON. MEMBERS : Oh, oh!
MR. SIMMS : I move that the r· ~:~ p or· 1·. p r· o g r· e s s s:it agajn.
CornmittE!e r·ise,
i.~ n d ''' s k l e ,~ v ~~ 1: o
On moi·.i.on UJ<'\1: l:hr·.~ Corrmd.H:c:!r~ r·i.se,
I"E:!pOI"l pr·ogl"ess i'.lnd ask Jr::~a~~~~ to
!; · i :: i:\ 9 i't · i. n , r-1 r' , ;.) p :'! i.-1 k r-:! t' r· ~~ ·I: 1 1 r· n ::! d l: u
thH Chair·.
M R . S P F fll< E" R ( M <: N :i. c h o 1 a s ) : () t' d !'! t ' , fl l_ L:' i·\ S (:~ !
ThP hon. thE:! ruernb(!ln for TE:H'I"i:l Nova .
MR. GREENING : Mr· . 3pc:h'\ker·, t.hr-~ Conurri. l··l··.ec'! oF l:he
No. 67 F~38B:>
Whol.1'• h..-1vr,~ cons·i. cl::!r'l·~d l:h:~ mai·:t.Hr'!; t o t h em I'' P f e r-r- E>. d , h a v l':! d :i r o c t E:'Ci m o to t'HfHH'i: pt'OO:.F'I'!SS .::tncl ,u;k ll,~•'ll)l·) to s:i.t <'~g;dn.
On mol:ion, Lh1·) Couurri. l:l". t·)r·:! or~ I: he lr~ h ol E-! h rHH:~ r·~·! po r·t P.d pr·og r·e s s , o r· d e t' I·) d l: o Jpavc,~.
s i. 1: ''' 9 "' i. n p r· 1,~ s t-:! n L l. 1J b 1J
I'-1R. ~3IMM~3 :
The'! COJIII'fli.l:h~H r..l g eLi. n now, Mr· .
dre going Speaker.
SOMF HON. MFMRFRS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPf:AKFR :
1: l) s '1. 1:
It .is moved and seconded that the H o u s r:~ r· e s o 1 v e i. 1: s ~~ l. f -i. n 1: o d
Committc~e of the Whole House. All thos{~! in f;~vour· 11 AIJP 11
• Those against 11 Nay 11
, carr·ied.
On rnoUon thctt thE:~ House resolve i. tst~l. f i.nl~ o Cornmi. l~tt'!t' of 1-·.ht~ Who] E~, Ml". SpeakEH' ] E:'ft the Cha:i r·.
Committee of the Whole
rilR. ~HilMS : Mel'! :i 0 II / •
1'·1R . CllrHRMAN : ~10 1· ·i.o n /.I l: h 1-) l-lo n . Hw rJJ :i. i'l'i. s \:f:! t' I) r HE~al t.h.
DR. COI.I..JNS: Mr·. !")pl:)dker·, on l:hdl: par·l:'i.cl.ll.dt' po:i n·t· about thr:~ equity tnvestrnents Ult'ough NTDC ·i.nt.o NE'!I~JFoundl..:·lnd r n v :i r· o p o n :i c s . I t hi n k , o u r llleHJCH'lE'S wr.:!t'e not. shi:Jrp, r'lnd I :include myself in that. I djd Jnakc:! r:Hl Lnqu.lr•y dl'ld IAlhdt. 1Aii':1S put in or·:ig:i.nalJ y was not rE!a] ly land thdt was a $1 million. Tt was li'Hid and infrastructure. As hon . lflf.~Tni:H?.t' S k 1'1 OUI, f.: h d t lAid S t h i.-1 f: r• di/J J cHld out l::her·e, as a mat tE:H' of fc1ct, T think it wr:1s just
1.3BB6 July 'i, 1.9BB Vo] XI.
bogl.:-1nd. ~ ')o l:hnr'1·:! hdd t.o br'! .:q certain amount of lnfl"c:tstnH:tur·E! •Hld !; 1;! r· v -L c f'! s p11l. ·i. n HH~ I'' H to actually Fit into the Janel c ;~1 1: t-:) g o r· 1J .
Or·i g :i ne~l J y r. he a r rang c~rncw t IAI<'15 IAIE:' IJIOIIl.d s11ppl,y lol-11-~ l.dnd fi"Ofll NI. HC iilnd UH~ wouJ d put the,) J iHld, ·l· hcl'l~ :i ~; 1._3l)IJ:H'i'llll~)i'll·., dS p ;:n•l·. oF ·i.l-.s PquU:y, WE:! t.uil] put land jnto a suitc.lb]c~ r:oncl·il·i.on so l::h;_ql: Uw si":I"Ucl-:ur·E! could be er·ectE!d on '11: .. Whc~'n we~ 90'1: doiAII'l 1-.o cases, -i.l·: I~JdS cl(!dl" that that was an inefficient IAJay 'l~o do ·i. 1-:. Thr::·r·e IAJ<:!I"r,, go.lng l".o bc-:o contrclctors in thE!r'e ovc~r -the construction IJJJ!-h fr•ont ·- <;!nd loaders, concrete trucks, H rn p J. o y e E~ s , and IAI h a 1:. E! v {~' t' , d n cl government would have to put in l:h(;~ saHIE:) sor·l·: oF Pf'!t'sonnel l:.o prepare the land. They would go o u t. , r::t n d t h c:! n o 1 ... h P r· c o n +-. r' a c 1-: o r· s would go tn wtth thE! samE! sor·t oF eq1.dp1nent·., i:Hld UH~ Si'\1111-'! sort. o ·f uJOr•k, and carry on.
~) o , ·i. l: IJI,:1 s ~; .:d . d I ' l .o o k , i. l: ·1. s 1r1 o r· F.! SE:!ns:ib]e -t.hat :i.n!;tE:'cH~ oF gotJr,H'rlJlll;!ni: ·i l·.s~~l F go i.ng 01.11:: dnd cont:n~ct:ing to put :ln !::hose ~; 1,~ r' v ·i. r: f.:!!) I IJH-~ IJI!) ul d 1. t·:! i·: l: h r:! c:ontrctct. or· IJJho IAil-ls go-.ing lo bui11· I hr-:! l-i:\cil·iJ.y flill : iil i.he s<:•i"v .i CE'!S I
and we~ t.a.rould pay t h;;1t: con 'I. r·a cto1~ for· ·i. l-. l.hr·r)ll\jh N::!l<ifOIIndl.<"tnd Fnv:ir•opon:Jcs as {:hough IAIE:! IAIPI"E! d cl'i. n Q ·i. 1: o 1.1 r· s 1:' l.tJ r~ s . 1
() s '" Jlli;d·. l:. ''! r· of fact, :l.f 1.1.1e had done it Lher·e IJJ;~s •Hl :~s [:·i.uJO:l h~d dHIOl.ll'll-. 1-:i'l<:'tl.. .i.t would cost about $850,000 to do l·:hdl·:. Thdl~ IAIHS dn <:!Sl:'.ilnFII::E:!cl amount. When LJ.JE:' IJJent to tE!nclc-:!r, or· IAJhatf~VPr', i . l: could have berc.n a different amount, it could have b ~'! ~Hl a c o n s i. d EH' a b l. y g r· E:' R 1:: E• r· amount.
Anyway, there was !".hat
would
an llk1de
Envir·oponics conl~ racl~or· Lo pu I~
No . 6 '7
arrangement NHwfounclland allow i-ts
in !-:.hose
IB886
_.._
Sf~r·v i.cc~s, and Uldi: $1. mi.l.l i. on l··.h.~i :
w~s as s igned for th~t, wouJd c over
t:.hr~ r:lc ·l-.u,"-1. bog l.r:1nd il·.self c'tnd the
pu-ttjng :i. n of those services.
Thdl: i.s tllhy th(:•r't-:! tJ.Ji'lS no change i.n
thE:~ bottom Jine amount. There was
sl-. i.ll. U~<c~ $2. ~) mtll.i.on cash, t.he
$8SO,OOO that the Newfoundland
gov~H·mn~Hll:. tAJClS going to hiitVc.;! t.o
spE:Hid for services anyway, but now
thdt WdS being done by the
contractor· of r:nviroponics, and
the $150,000 l:. hat. IJ.JdS the~ r.lSSf~S S ~~d
vaJue of the land on the NLHC
books.
[1-_ IJ.JdS r'HalJ.y
d:i ff~·!lnent. l.llctY but S rJJill'.! aJilOI I 1"1 1-. •
r-1:~. CHrlT Rr~MJ :
Tlw h cii"J . t :he 0 p p o ~> i. L i. o n .
~~R. Wtl. I.. S:
jusl~ clonr,~
it cantc~ t .o
LeadfH' of
i.~
t· hE:~
thE:!
Tid~: rnay takE:! a Jitt·le whilE~, it
lJ.J i l.l. i ·. d!(~~ a f: :! IJ.J llli.nul:c,~s. 1 C:dnnoi :
do :i t :i n j us t a nd nut e or· two, so
''w c: <:Hl r· ·i. s e :-. h ~~ c: o nnrd. i-. 1-: t~ c,~ i:l n d co 111!:1
back and t:IE~al~Ar:ith jt tomorrow.
On mot. ·i.on t.hc.'\1: Lh(:~ CoHlrn:i.l-.h~H r·'i.sc,~,
r·eport progress and ask leave to
slt dga.i. n, Mr· . Cha ·LrHlrHl, left the
Chair·.
MR . SPFAKER (McNicholas) : Order, pler:l s e!
The han. t hE:1 rueruber for Terra Nova .
MR . GRF.:EI\JTI\JG : Ml". Spt:'i:t k tc!l", the Comrn:i t I':E:~e of the
!lllh o 1. r:! ~hoW(>. cons ·.i. d (~ r·ud 1·: h!::! rn<:ll: 1·: E:H'
-t- o t:henr r·c,!f<-'l r·r·ed, havE:~ d:ir<~ch:!d mE~
l: o t'C'!FHH'I: fH'c)l_:jt ' C'!SS <Hld i:lSk l , ni:\IH•
t o s :i. t a g "~ :i n .
M R . :1 P F. () Kf. ~~ : 11JE! Chc'.l-..i r·n·ti::trt l: hl'! illlhol.c·) ask!; ]E-!CIVP 1 ... omo r· r· OIJ.J .
of thE! Cornrn :i 1·!-E-'E:! t' (·) p or· I: s p r· o g r· c" ~; !)
to !; j t a g a :i. n
of ritnd
01'1
I 3 887 July 4-, 1988 Vol XI ..
Th~-:1 hon . l: h c-) P r· (~ s -i_ d (;! n l·: o f LhE:!
Coun c:il.
MR. SIMMS: M r . :3 p r-?. r:l k e r· , tom o r-r· o LIJ I.<J e tJJ i l l bE!
calling these two outstanding
i bHns u nd f;! r· I·.JH'! F i. nan c (:1 1not -i.o n s,
41 and 67, and if we conclude
tho s c~ t orno r Y'OIAJ, tJ.JF.! 1..r.J.i.l.l. b ~'! mo u in g
into the continuing debate on
Me I'! c h 1_ i.:l k c~ F r· o rn 1.u he n c l-:' 1~1 e adjourrtE:1d the Jast time, lAJheneVE!r
1-:har. lAJdS.
()1\J HON. MF.MAER : When?
MR. SIMMS : Tomor'r'ot~J . Do you tJ.J<.u li : 11lc"! i·:o
r·t:!peat. it. again? ThE~SE! tlAJO t..r.JE:'
d c,~ r (·) r' r· C) c:l 1: () d i·l y ' !) k i·11j ' i'l n cl L h (~ n
Meech Lake, depend:i ng on hol..r.J far ·
t;.Jc:' 9 c,1 1: 1·. o 1110 r· r OtJ.J. I .:un no 1... do "i. n g 'I·
and S t.omor·rot..r.J, but maybe, 1a-t..r">r' on, nc·)X{: ljl:~ r'lr', nc'! X l: I•Je,:•k, rl ~'! X 1:.
month, 1.uheneuer· .
On ruotion, the House at :its r· :i. s:i.ng
acljour·nr~d unt:·i.l rurO!sddy, Jun{~ IJ,
1988, at 2:00 p.rn .
No. 6 7 1n88?
"
CONTENTS
MONDAY, 4 JULY, 1988.
Statements by Ministers
Provincial Unemployment Rate and Economic Matters : Premier Peckford . ............. . ..................... ... 3827
Mr. Wells ... ............... . ... . .. .................. ... 3829
Mr. Fenwick ... . . . ...... . . .. . . . ...... ....... ... .... .. ... 3831
Tentative Labour Contract for Nurses : Mr. Simms ... ....... ... .......... .... . . ...... ... ... .. .. . 3832
Mr. Tu 1 k . . .. . ........ . .... . ......... . .. ... ...... . .... . . 3 8 3 2
Mr . Fenwick ..... , .. .. ... . ... .. .. .... . .. .. .... .. . ... ... .. . 3833
Oral Questions
Caplin Fishery : Now that the quota for Japan has been caught, when w·ill an extended caplin f ·ishery start . Mr . W. Carter, Premier Peckford . .. . ...... . ... .......... 3833
Asks that the minlster be instructed to take whatever steps are necessary to ensure the fishery will be reopened. Mr. W. Carter, Premier Peckford ... . . . .. . .. . .... . .... . .... . . .. . ........ 3834
Longheed Retainer : Why were quarterly reports not tabled as promised; will reports be tabled. Mr. Furey, Premier Peckford . . .. .. . . .... .. .. . . .... .... . . . .. . ....... 38 35
Has the Bennett Jones law firm received funds from this year's budget; if so, did the payment approach the $400,000 paid last year. Mr. Furey, Premier Peckford . ... . .. . ..... . . . .. . . ... . .... 3836
Is there a system in place to account fully for these expenditures. Mr . Furey, Premie!r Pe ck ford ........ . . ............................. 3836
•
Ll1
1'-hller Centre : Haue charges of uncleanliness been investigated and a report made. Mr . Efford, Dr. Colltns . . . ... . ... . ...... . ..... .. ......... . ... . ... . . 3836
Claims 35 patient~ must share one washroom . Mr. Efford, Dr. Collin s .... .. .......... . .. . .... . ....... 3836
Claims minister not concerned; seeks :i.nuesi:igation. Mr. F::fford, Dr. Collins . . .... . .... . ... . . 3H37
Drugg ist Claims Unfair Competit ion : Si nce the Me di ca l Board has not resolved the issue, has the mtnister taken any action . Mr. Fenwick, Or. Collins . . ... . .. . . . .. .. . .. .. . .. .. . . . ... 3837
Will the minister order the Medical Board to reopen the case. Mr. Fenwick , Dr . Collins.
Claims certain practices may be life threatening; urges speedy actton. Mr . Fenwick,
. . 3 83 8
Dr. Collins .... . ......... .. ... .. . . .. .. . .. .. .. .. ..... . .. 3839
Fagan Commission : Status of report. Mr. Lush, Premier Peckford . .. . ..... . . 3839
Why unnecessary delay. Mr. Ll~sh,
Premier Peckford ... ... ... .. . . .. . .. .. . ... . . .... ... . ..... 384-0
When can action be expected. Mr. Lush, Premier Peckford ..... . .. . ..... . ... . . . . ... .... . .. . . . .. .. 3 8 4-0
The Newfound l an d Rai lwa y Clo sure : Mi r1jst e r i a J awarene s s of dissa t isfaction with closure package. Mr. Gilbert, Mr. Doyle ...... . .. . ...... 3840
Claims 100 non-union middle management personnel dissatisfied. Mr. Gilbert, Min. Doyle ............ . .. . .. . .. .. . .. . . .. .... . ...... . .. .. 384.1
Asks minister to ensure a just settleme nt . Mr. Gilbert, Mr . Doyle ..... . .. . .. . .. . ..... . . . . ' . .. .. 3 84-1
Northwest Gander River Bridge : Reports say Kruger to demolish bridge . Mr . Baker, Mr. R. Aylward .. . .. . .. . . ........... .
Asks minister to point out to Kruger that government has issued dozens of cabin permits for the road and some 400 moose licences annually for the area. Mr. Baker,
. . .. 3 841
Mr. R. Aylward ... . ...... .. . . . .. . . .. . .. . . . ..... ......... 3842
St. Lewis Town Plan : Problem with location of new school . Mr. Hiscock, Premier Peckford . . .... ........ .. .......... 3842
Sa lmon Rive r Guard ians: As ks f or represen t a ti on to be made to Ottawa. Mr . Tulk, Premier Peckford ... . .. ... ... . . . .... . . ..... ... 3843
The logic in fiHlding salmon enhanct~ment:, but then failing to provide necessary protection . Mr. Tulk, Premi.er PF.!c!<ford ........... . .. . ... ........... 3B43
Asks will government again be ignored by Oi: ta1.va. f.,r. Tulk, PrE!m:ler PeckFord ...... ......... .. .. .. 3844
Health Scie nces Compl e x : Has extra money been provided to keep open beds scheduled to be closed this summer. Mr . Efford, Dr. Collins . . .... . .. ........ .. . .. .. . ....... 3 844
Claims an emergency patient had to spend 24 hours on a cot in a hallway before a regular bed became available. Mr . Efford, Dr. Collins .... .. . ... 3845
Asks what the nu1nber of admissions to the Centre has to do with a 24 hour delay in providing a regular bed. Mr. Efford, Dr. Collins .. . ... ... . . .. . . .. . .. . ... .. . . ... .... ........ . 3845
Notices of Motion
Select Committee on Conflict of Interest Guidelines: Mr. Simms .... . .... ......... . . ... . .. ... ........ . ........ 3 847
On motion, Committee Members Approved .. .. ...... . ....... 3847
Orders of the Day
Committee of the Whole
Rela ·ting to the Raising of Loans ................. . . . . . . 3847
Dr . Collins introduces Resolution .. . ....... ...... . . .... 3847
Mr . Baker ..... ... . .... ... . ... . ..... . .... . .. .... ....... . 3849
Mr . Wells . . ..... .. ............. .. . .... . ... .. ... ........ 3850
Dr . Collins ..... ....... .. . . . ......... .... . . .. .... . . .... 3850
Mr . Baker ... . . . . . ...................................... 3851
Mr. J . Carter ... ....... .. .... ..... .. .... . .. . ...... ... . . 3855
Mr. Efford . .... ... .. .. ... . . .. .. . .. . . . . . ... . . . .. .. . .. ... 3856
Mr . J. Carter .. . . .. . . .... ... . ...... . . . ... . ... ...... ... . 3857
Dr. Collins . .. . . . .... .... . . ...... .. ....... ... . .......... 3858
Mr. Wells . . .. . . . .. . .. ... ......... .... .......... ... . . .. . 3859
Dr . Collins ........ . . .. ... . ..... .. ...... . .. .. .......... 3861
On Mo tio n, Comtn:i t ·f:e e Reports Resol11U.on carried ........ 3862
Resolution
On Mo ·l:i.o n, Ri.1.1 No . 45, read a fi.rsi: and second l: i.rne .. . 3863
Committee of the Whole
A measure t o amend The Re t. a i. l Sales Tax Ac t .. , . . . .... . . 3863
Dr. Collins introduces Resolution . ..... . . .. .. .. .. ..... . . 3863
Mr . Baker . . . . . .. . . .. . ... . .. .. . .. . . ... . ...... .. . .. , . .. .. 3864
Mr. J. Carter ...... . ..... . . . .... .. .. . .. . ... . .... .. ... . . 3866
Mr . Baker .. . . ... . . . . ...... .... . ... ... .. . . .... . .. . .. . . . . 3867
Mr. Wel).s . . . .... ... . . . . .. . .... . .. ... . .. .. .. . .. .. ..... .. 3867
Dr. Collins . ..... . . . . ......... . ........ .. . ..... .. , . . . .. 3868
On Mo tion , Committee reports Resolution carried . . . . .. . . 3869
. Resolution
On Motion, An Act To Amend RST Act read a first and second time ..... . ...... .. . . ...... . .. . ... .. .. . .. .. ... .. . 386 9
Committee of Supply
Or. Collins introduces Resolution .. ... ... . ..... ... . .. .. 3870
Mr. Baker ..... .. .... . . . .. .... . . , . .. . ... . .. .. .. .. . ... .. . 3871
Dr . Collins ........ . .. . .. . . . .... . . . .... ..... .. . ,. . ...... 3872
Mr . Furey .. . .. .... ... . ..... ..... .. . . . .. ... . . . . .. .... ... 3873
Mr . Warren .... .. ... .... ... .... .... . . . . . . ........ . .... .. 3873
Mr . Wells ...... .. , .. .. . .. ...... .. . ... .. . . . .. . .. ..... .. . 3874
M.r . Peach . . . . . , ... .. . . .. . . .. ... . .. .. .. .. . .. .. . .. ... .... 3875
Mr . Baker . . . .... ..... .. .. . ..... ... : ... .. . . . ... .... . . . ... 3876
Dr . Collins .. .... . . ... .. .. . .. .. . .. . ... . . ..... .... .. . . . . 3877
Mr . Baker ... .. .. .. .. . ... . .. .. . .. .... .. .. .... ..... ... .. . 3877
D·r . Collins .. . ... . . . . ...... . . ... .... .. .. ... ..... . . . . . . . 3878
M·r. Simms .. ... .......... . .. .... . . . . . . ..... . . ....... .... 3878
!!~
On Motion, Committee reports Resolution carried ........ 3879
Resolution
On Moti.on, Rill No. 67 ................................. 3880
Commj ttee reports progress ............................. 3885
Committee of Supply
Resuming debate ........................................ 3886
Committee reports progress ............................. 3887
Adjournment Motion ..................................... 3887