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AEE Episode 506: How To Get Into A Flow State When You Learn

English With Kevin Conwell

Announcer: This is an All Ears English Podcast, Episode 506: “How to Get Into A Flow

State When You Learn English With Kevin Conwell”

[Instrumental]

Announcer: Welcome to the All Ears English Podcast, downloaded more than 16

million times. We believe in Connection NOT Perfection ™ with your

American hosts Lindsay McMahon, the ‘English Adventurer’, and Michelle

Kaplan, the ‘New York Radio Girl,’ coming to you from Boston and New

York City, USA.

[Instrumental]

Announcer: And to instantly download your transcript from today’s episode go to

AllEarsEnglish.com/transcripts, AllEarsEnglish.com/transcripts.

[Instrumental]

Announcer: Today you’ll meet our guest, Kevin, and we’ll talk about ways you can

challenge yourself in your English learning to get into the best state of

mind for maximum retention.

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Announcer: Today we have a guest on All Ears English. Our guest today is fueled most

by culture, music and personal development. He’s the creator of “The Feel

Good English” podcast where he teaches English through life and business

skills based on ideas from inspiring books and TED talks. His background is

in psychology and language learning. Our guest today is Kevin Conwell so

let’s welcome Kevin to the show.

Lindsay: Hey (Hi) Kevin, welcome to All Ears English, thank you so much for joining

us. How are you today?

Kevin: I’m great, Lindsay. How are you doing?

Lindsay: Welcome back. Kevin you are here from “Feel Good English” and you

were on our show way back in July of 2014 for episode 158 where you told

our listeners about how to use Facebook groups to find English speaking

friends. By the way, Kevin that episode was really popular. Thank you.

[laughter]

Kevin: Very cool, I’m glad it helped. Yeah (yes), I try to be as useful as possible.

Lindsay: Yes, yes.

Kevin: Sure.

Lindsay: Absolutely. Very good, Kevin. Thank you. You’re back today to talk about

a new topic which is really in line with the website, your new website and

your new podcast that you’re creating and you’re going tell us about “self-

awareness” today and how our listeners can use “self-awareness” to

become better English learners, is that right?

Kevin: Yeah (yes), you know it’s something that I have seen over the years of

teaching and being around so many students is you have to learn how to

enjoy the process of learning English and becoming better and like you

talked about connecting with people. You really have to know what works

for you.

Lindsay: Yes.

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Kevin: And what you enjoy and - and just keep doing those things and so we’ll

talk about that today and “self-awareness” might be a new topic or a new

word for some of the people out there.

Lindsay: Yeah (yes), yeah (yes).

Kevin: But we’ll get into it.

Lindsay: Yeah (yes), very cool Kevin. So let’s just get right into it now then. So the

word “self-awareness” as you said I feel like this word is a very kind of

western notion, the concept of ““self-awareness”” so for our listeners who

maybe haven’t heard of this term or haven’t been interested in this term

in the past what does it mean in practical terms when we say “self-

awareness”?

Kevin: So yeah (yes) in and just as far as the word “awareness” this might even be

new for some people, “awareness” is to be able to recognize something or

to be able to see something.

Lindsay: Yeah (yes).

Kevin: So if you say “self-awareness”, it’s to be able to just see something inside

of you or to even feel something inside of you.

Lindsay: Ooo I like that. I like that. And we know that you know when we talk

about very successful people, people who perform at the highest levels in

business and sports they know about this and they tune into a very high

level so I think this is great. Well, let’s just get right into this, Kevin. I think

today you’re going to offer our listeners three core tips, practical tips on

how they can use “self-awareness” to reach to that advanced level. What

can they do, Kevin?

Kevin: So great first let me start with a quote.

Lindsay: Okay.

Kevin: This quote comes from a guy named Gary Vaynerchuk, he’s a marketer

and entrepreneur, he is a very outspoken guy.


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Kevin: He’s big on this topic of “self-awareness” especially in business.


Kevin: And what we want to tie this into today is language learning so the quote

is this “Self-awareness allows people to recognize what things they do best

so that they can go hard on those aspects of their life. It also helps you

accept your weaknesses.”

Lindsay: Ooo, I like that. I like that. Okay. So Gary Vaynerchuk is a big thought

leader in the online business community, right? And so he has some

insight so maybe he knows what he’s talking about here. [laughter]

Kevin: Yeah (yes), yeah (yes). I would say so and that is what he does. He studies

people and he – and he knows you know – he’s a speaker. He’s a big

public speaker and sees all of these people these days trying to do things

with business and what not that he thinks is maybe not for them but they

think they should be doing that but maybe that is not for them. Maybe

they should figure out more that is right for them. They should be

“aware”. They should recognize more what’s good for them.

Lindsay: Oh I love that concept. We had a guest on the show about a year and half

ago, her name was Laura Garnett and she talked about the “Zone of

Genius” and I think that would fall into this too. Really recognizing your

strengths and your weaknesses and trying to build your career or your

activities around what you do uniquely well, better than everyone else but

Kevin I want to hear from you today so let’s get straight into it. Let’s get

into your three tips for our listeners, I mean how can our listeners use the

concept of knowing ourselves looking inward to become better English

learners?

Kevin: Sure, so let’s start with a very practical tip first. What I want the listeners

to do is go into Google and search this word, “flow”. Flow is spelled F L O

W.

Lindsay: Yes.

Kevin: And what you’ll find is there is a thought leader in this area he is from

Hungary. His name is Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi.

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Lindsay: No one can pronounce his name. It’s okay.

Kevin: Way too difficult and just start researching this topic of flow a little bit.

And what this means is “flow” is when you are doing an activity and the

activity is for – in simplifying it – the activity is “right” for you. It’s the

“right” level. So what that means is you’re going to feel good while doing

something. You’re going to feel motivated. You’re going to feel energized.

This comes from finding activities that are a little bit challenging for you

but not too challenging. It’s not too difficult also on the other hand it’s not

too easy.


Kevin: So which means it’s not boring, it’s not frustrating, it’s just a little bit

challenging for you and this is going to help you find activities that will

help you start to improve your English better mostly because you’ll be

enjoying what you’re doing and you’ll be learning from these enjoyable

experiences so that’s the first step. Just start learning about this idea for

“flow”.

[Instrumental]

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them. You can get a professionally made transcript of today’s episode

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AllEarsEnglish.com/transcripts.

[Instrumental]

Lindsay: Okay I like that, I like that and then we are we going to translate that into

specific activities, is that coming in the next tip or should we cover that

now like if our listeners – how can they find material, how do they know

that they are in “flow”? I mean how do we look for these materials?

Kevin: Lindsay, you are quite smart. That’s exactly the next step.

Lindsay: Oh, thank you. [laughter]

Kevin: So that’s the step two. So once we get this idea of how we can find

activities that are good for us and being “aware” of what makes us feel

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these emotions of energized, motivated and happy and just really paying

attention to these feelings that we’re experiencing while we are doing

these activities. We will start looking for a variety of activities that we can

do to experiment with and I’m a big believer in technology so you’re

listening to this – your listeners are listening to this podcast now so they

obviously are familiar with some technologies and going online and finding

places to speak with people or you know even watching certain videos or

watching certain content or going into certain chat rooms or whatever.

There’s so many options and just kind of trying different things out.


Kevin: And looking for these emotions that they will learn from studying a little

bit about “flow”.

Lindsay: Ooo, I like it.

Kevin: And this is big. This isn’t something you do in a day or an hour.

Lindsay: Yes.

Kevin: Like this is something can take weeks, you know and it’s experimenting

with different activities and seeing what works and not thinking that you

have to do this or you have to do that or you have to sit in a class room

and do this and read this book or you have to study grammar for hours or

that the only way to pass certain assessment tests is to get really deep into

grammar. It’s not for everyone. You have to be “aware”. You have to

recognize what works for you.


Kevin: And those activities are out there.

Lindsay: I love that Kevin that is fantastic so again so just to make sure it’s clear for

our listeners we are looking for something that is challenging but not too

challenging and not of course not boring. It should be somewhere in

between where we are striving, it’s not easy for us but it’s not impossible.

Right?

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Kevin: Exactly. It’s that “sweet spot”. It’s a “sweet spot” of finding something.

You’re going to have a little bit of courage, a little bit of confidence to put

yourself in these situations.


Kevin: But it should challenge you, I mean if your listeners think of something,

you know let’s say they play the piano or something like that.

Lindsay: Okay, Kevin, so what’s that example if we are playing piano? How do we

find “flow” for example?

Kevin: So imagine you’re a piano player taking another example not learning

English so you’re a piano player and you’re pretty good. You’re at the

intermediate level and you can play songs pretty well. The “right” state,

the state of “flow” or where you would want to be, what would keep you

progressing and enjoying what you’re doing would be finding somebody

who is just a little bit better than you and being able to practice with this

person.


Kevin: So you can kind of move up to their level.

Lindsay: Oh yeah (yes), I love that. There is so many examples. I remember when I

used to play a lot of tennis, this always happened. You wanted to play

with that person who was just a little bit better than you. But Kevin this is

a discipline, constantly searching for something that’s harder and

challenging ourselves. I mean how can we get ourselves to do this

everyday? How can we push ourselves?

Kevin: You know I think what needs to happen is you need to, just be patient for

let’s say a month and give yourself the time to try this out and see where

you get to in a month. What keeps us motivated in language learning is

seeing progress. We see that we are getting better. That’s what will keep

us going so it doesn’t come in a day but it comes with time and if you find

these experiences and these types of techniques that keep you interested

enough and then you just wait a little bit to actually see yourself getting

better by getting feedback from somebody or realizing that you’re

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understanding English better online or on TV and having these little signals

like wow my English is improving. This will keep you going so have

patience and wait for the progress to come.

Lindsay: Yeah (yes). No, totally. I love that idea, Kevin. I think this is really

resonating (really resonates) with a lot of our listeners because a lot of our

listeners are stuck on that plateau, right, that famous plateau, the

intermediate plateau.

Kevin: Sure.

Lindsay: Trying to break through to being natural and fluent in English but they

can’t find a way and I think what you’re saying to us today, is that we need

to look into ourselves. The problem is not our teachers or what we are

doing well it’s actually what we are doing but first looking into ourselves,

are we challenging ourselves, right, take the responsibility on ourselves.

Kevin: Sure and there are so many ways. I’ll go on to the third step.


Kevin: Of what your listeners can do.

Lindsay: Sounds good.

Kevin: And I will give you an example of how this worked for me so once you find

these activities that work for you, I want you “to go all in”, I mean put all

of your efforts into these activities.


Kevin: To give an example of how open this is, for me when I was living in Brazil

with a very big goal of becoming a fluent Portuguese speaker, what I

enjoyed was learning Portuguese through real conversations and

interactions with Brazilians there and this was most of the time at parties

or barbeques or things like that.

Lindsay: Mhh hhm.

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Kevin: So it was a fun environment however it wasn’t that easy to go and try to

speak and try to communicate especially when I was learning it. You feel

dumb sometimes, you feel stupid but…

Lindsay: [laughter]

Kevin: That was my learning environment and I said okay this is where I’m going

to learn, this is where I’m going to become fluent and so you know weekly

I would go to these parties and I’d put myself out there meaning I would

risk, you know I would risk looking stupid.


Kevin: To you know improve and to constantly communicate and practice and try

and make jokes and you know come up with a lot of stupid words of

course, everybody is teaching me, you know ridiculous words.

Lindsay: Right, right for sure.

Kevin: But that was my “flow state”, it was inspiring, it was challenging and it was

not too difficult, not too easy and you know over time you know I’m

talking months there would be progress and I would all of a sudden say

wow this is becoming easier. This is cool and then you would go into more

deeper (deeper) conversations and you just keep progressing like that.

Lindsay: Right. I love that. And not only that but we also feel more alive when we

are in this “flow state”, right, we are really alive. You know when we hit

this level of complacency we start to get bored and we start to get dull to

the world and the world becomes dull to us, right, because we’re not

feeling that challenge. We are not feeling that aliveness inside of us. So I

think for our listeners you know if you’re feeling bored not only with your

English learning but just with life in general, mix it up. Start pushing

yourself and get into that “flow state” and you’ll see it extending out to

other areas of your life, right Kevin?

Kevin: No, that’s awesome, yeah (yes), and feeling alive is a perfect way to say it.

You know what’s the opposite of that – think of you sitting in a classroom

with a book feeling close to death, you know you’re almost dead like this is

horrible and people probably felt that way so feel alive.

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Kevin: Those activities are out there, just look for them, put in the effort of

finding the activities more than putting in the effort, you know studying in

English or that word study, whatever that means.


Kevin: But sure.

Lindsay: Oh, I love that Kevin. Thank you so much for coming on today and talking

about this concept of really we have been talking today about how to feel

alive when we learn English and I love that concept that is going to

resonate with our listeners so much, Kevin. I have a feeling that you’re

talking a lot about how to do this over at your new blog, right, Feel Good

English. So can you tell us how to find you online and how to check out

your new podcast and your website and what you’re doing.

Kevin: Sure, yeah (yes), you simply go to Feel Good English Podcast, this is

something new that I’m doing and basically what I’m going to be doing is

talking about these types of ideas and using books and TED talks from

professional and thought leaders in these areas to really help you or help

the learners become stronger, more positive English learners with the idea

of feeling more alive in their learning so feelgoodenglish.com is where you

can find everything that I do or go on to iTunes and look for Feel Good

English, you’ll find the podcast there and start listening and learning and

that’s it.

Lindsay: [laughter] Very cool. Very good. So I would encourage you guys to go on

over to there if this episode kind of hit home for you if you fell like this

strikes a chord with you, if you want to feel more alive when learning

English and you want more ideas on how to do that, go over and check out

what Kevin is doing over there and subscribe to his new podcast as well.

So Kevin, thanks again for coming on the show today, it’s been great to see

you on the show again.

Kevin: Awesome, Lindsay. It’s been great being here and thank you for making

me feel alive.

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Lindsay: [laughter] You are very welcome. And same to you Kevin. I’ll see you

soon.

Kevin: Alright, bye bye.

Lindsay: Thanks, bye.

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AEE Episode 507: Is It Common In English? Why There Is No Easy

Answer.

Announcer: This is an All Ears English Podcast, Episode 507: “Is It Common in English?

Why There Is No Easy Answer.”

[Instrumental]


million times. We believe in Connection NOT Perfection with your



York City, USA.

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Announcer: One of our listeners asked how to know if a term is common in English or

not, today get eight questions to ask yourself to find out if a word or an

expression is right for you.

[Instrumental]

Announcer: Guys we know a lot of you listen to All Ears English to build better

relationships at work that is what we are here to help you with and you

can take it to the next level with our free Charisma Master Class. Go to

AllEarsEnglish.com/charisma to start building charisma for work today.

[Instrumental]

Lindsay: Hey (Hi) Michelle, how’s it going today? How you feelin’ (feeling)?

Michelle: Hey (Hi) Lindsay, I’m doing pretty well, pretty well, getting back on

schedule but everything is good.

Lindsay: I know because you just came back from India a couple of weeks ago and

then you had a weekend in Burlington. It’s so funny that we were both in

Burlington, Vermont this weekend.

Michelle: We were but we missed each other.

Lindsay: I know we didn’t have a chance to have coffee. You reached out but I was

busy doing something else but anyways yeah (yes) Burlington Vermont.

Michelle: Yeah (yes).

Lindsay: Could we recommend that to our listeners, Michelle?

Michelle: I loved it. I really loved it.

Lindsay: I loved it too, Michelle. Lake Champlain, huge lake and just beautiful,

beautiful setting.

Michelle: Yeah (yes), yeah (yes), I love the downtown area. I just liked, I don't know,

it was very peaceful but at that same time a lot of things to do and I really

enjoyed it.

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Lindsay: Hmm. Yeah (yes) guys so if you’re in the New England area visiting maybe

you’re in Boston. From Boston, it’s about a 4-hour drive. From New York,

you guys flew up there from New York, right?

Michelle: Yeah (yes). We flew. It’s like a 2 second flight, like you get on the flight

and then you get off.

Lindsay: [laughter]

Michelle: It might have actually been 2 seconds. That’s the actually time.

Lindsay: What?

Michelle: No, it took about 45 minutes.

Lindsay: No snacks? No time for snacks? I always like snacks on the plane.

Michelle: A small snack. Yes.

Lindsay: Okay, good.

Michelle: [laughter]

Lindsay: [laughter] Anyways guys, if you’re in New England or the Northeastern

area, a great little kind of iconic vacation spot any season of the year

maybe you want to go up with a partner, a little romantic weekend, I

would highly recommend Burlington, Vermont. So…


Lindsay: Alright. Cool, Michelle. What are we talking about today?

Michelle: Oh well today, we are talking about a listener question.


Michelle: Regarding you know how common certain phrases are.

Lindsay: Yeah (yes), that’s true. So we did an episode back, episode 485 just a few

weeks ago and we taught a couple phrases like “cake walk” and “a piece of

cake”.

Michelle: Mhh hhm.

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Lindsay: And one of our listeners listened to that episode and wrote in with

another question with a follow up question and we really think that this

question applies to all of our listeners so we want to address that today

and give you guys kind of a framework of how to think about this and the

question is from Rea from Japan. Michelle, I know I always ask you to do

this but I hope it’s okay if you don’t mind?

Michelle: It’s totally fine.

Lindsay: Okay. Would you …

Michelle: “Hi, my name is Rie from Japan.” Hi Rie. “I always enjoy your podcast.”

Thank you Rie.

Lindsay: Thank you.

Michelle: “But to tell you the truth I’m a little confused by this episode. After

listening to this episode, I asked some native speaker if they use “piece of

cake” and “cake walk” in daily life. Some of them answered that “piece of

cake” is not common but on the other hand the others said that they use

this idiom as a common phrase.” Hmm. “And some people don’t even

know the word “cake walk”. Is it a generational or a regional matter? I’d

be happy if you answered my question. Looking forward to hearing from

you.” Thank you for your questions. Can we really quickly give a brief

explanation of “cake walk” and – or “piece of cake?

Lindsay: Yeah (yes), that’s a good question, Michelle. A good point because not all

of our listeners have listened to episode 485 so let’s …

Michelle: But you should. But you should.

Lindsay: Listen to them all. [laughter] So let’s do it. So what does “cake walk” mean

Michelle?

Michelle: It’s like something is like pretty easy like no trouble. Like oh yeah (yes),

like I don't know [laughter]

Lindsay: It’s a cake walk right? So you know so teaching a kid to speak English is

“cake walk” actually it’s not. I’m taking care of my two-year-old niece here

in New Hampshire this weekend.

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Michelle: Ahhh.

Lindsay: You know taking care of a kid actually is not a “cake walk”.

Michelle: Yup (yes), yup (yes).

Lindsay: Taking care of a two-year-old is a piece of cake and “piece of cake” means

the same thing as “cake walk” that was basically the point from that

episode so they both mean – they are both a way of saying that something

is pretty easy, right?


Lindsay: I think that in that episode we said that we don’t use “piece of cake” as

much umm we said that we use “cake walk” a bit more often, right

Michelle?

Michelle: Ahh I believe that is what we said but yeah (yes) I think Rie I mean I’m

really impressed by your questions especially that you asked about it’s

generational or regional you know matter right?

Lindsay: Mhh hhm.

Michelle: I think it’s really good that you’re thinking that way because you’ve

realized that it’s much more complex than just saying it is common or not.

Right?

Lindsay: Exactly. I think Rie you are exactly on the right track. I mean here is the

fact. The fact is that everyone has their own language style, you know,

and to tell you the truth here at All Ears English, we’re presenting you guys

with our style, m’kay (okay).

Michelle: Mhh hhm.

Lindsay: You know Michelle and I, we both – we don’t have strong accents. M’kay

(okay).

Michelle: Mhh hhm.

Lindsay: You know we are both from I guess the east coast, right Michelle you’re

from Maryland?

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Michelle: Mhh hhm.

Lindsay: And I’m from New Hampshire.

Michelle: Right.

Lindsay: And our lifestyle, how you would you describe our lifestyle Michelle?

Michelle: Umm we are kind of like urban lifestyle, aright?

Lindsay: Mhh hhm.

Michelle: We like city life and you know we are both from you know living in this

northeastern region.

Lindsay: Right.

Michelle: We are both fast paced, what else Lindsay?

Lindsay: Well, we are both educated so we both have master’s degrees so these

are all aspects that make up the way we speak. Okay? They can’t be

ignored so again, we’re telling you guys what’s common in our world but

someone else who maybe grew up in the South and you know maybe lives

in a small, rural town would disagree with some of the things that we say,

right, Michelle?

Michelle: Right. Absolutely. I think Rie you’re right, it’s everything and you do have

to think about is it a generational phrase sometimes we’ll teach a phrase

and Lindsay or I will say that sound more like something our parents would

say, right?

Lindsay: Right, yeah (yes).

Michelle: Umm and then regional phrases for sure. So much it’s just not – there is

no easy answer, right, and there are certain you know.

Lindsay: Mhh hhm.

Michelle: Scientific ways that you can look at it and there is certain research done, a

lot of research done to these questions.


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Michelle: But like as far as linguistics goes but umm you know I don't know there’s

just so much that goes into it.

Lindsay: Yeah (yes) so let’s talk about what goes into it, right, we just made a quick

list here to prepare for today’s episode to talk about the things that our

listeners need to think about when they hear from us or they hear from

someone else that something is common and I think everything we hear

we should always be critical about, right, we should just blindly trust

anyone because again as we said it is coming from our urban, fast paced,

city lifestyle as educated professionals, right, but that’s not going to be

necessarily common in everyone’s circles, right Michelle?

Michelle: Right, right. Young professionals also right? Like, like…

Lindsay: Young exactly. Yeah (yes) that’s the other thing, we’re – you know I’m 34

and Michelle you’re 28?

Michelle: 22, no I’m just joking. [laughter]

Lindsay: [laughter]

Michelle: I’m 28.

Lindsay: 22, oh my gosh. [inaudible0:07:57.4] [laughter]


Lindsay: Yeah (yes), so let’s just run down our list that we came up with of the

things that our listeners would want to think about or the reasons why

maybe you know we would tell you guys that “cake walk” is common and

you might go and ask another native speaker and they might say oh no

that’s not common at all, they are wrong. It’s not that we’re wrong, or not

that they’re wrong it’s just that these are the things that would make that

difference.

Michelle: Mhh hhm.

Lindsay: Okay?

Michelle: Exactly, exactly.

20


Lindsay: So what’s the first thing, a huge thing is what?

Michelle: Gender.

Lindsay: Gender. And we have talked about how this comes up more in kind of

language functions you know things like saying like oh just – using the

word just.

Michelle: Oh that’s a big one.

Lindsay: Yeah (yes) like oh I just want a or I will just have a dark – a small dark

roast, right? like just. I don’t hear that with men as much.

Michelle: Yeah (yes), yeah (yes). Exactly there’s so many – huh – that’s why this is

such an interesting field in general, linguistics, it’s just so fascinating

because there is (are) so many different pieces of it and that’s what we are

talking about now so sorry. Tangent.

Lindsay: It is. It’s a good thing that we love our field. It is so interesting, endlessly

fascinating. I mean that’s what makes this show so much fun to record.

Michelle: Yeah (yes) to really dig deep and think about all of these things.

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now. See you there.

[Instrumental]

Lindsay: Exactly and the next factor is what Michelle?

Michelle: Umm urban versus rural versus suburban.

Lindsay: Right. Even suburban, you know I remember umm at one point I was

dating someone who was from the Worcester area and I was living in

Cambridge and that person had some different language choices being

21


from kind of a suburban area versus kind of a more urban Boston area.

Isn’t that interesting?

Michelle: Right, exactly. I mean we both live in cities and it’s just you know could be

very different.

Lindsay: A bit different exactly. And then there are other subcultures, if we want to

get really specific. You know like gay subculture.

Michelle: Mhh hhm.

Lindsay: There is a certain set of language for gay people and then even this is a

crazy example but Harley Davidson is like a kind of people that ride these

Harley Davidson bikes.

Michelle: Mhh hhm.

Lindsay: And they have their own language, right so language culture.

Michelle: Right, right. Absolutely, I mean in language – I mean I even think that this

is going to sound funny but I think I have my own language with my

husband.


Michelle: You know how you develop a subcultures - I’m thinking that even

extremely small things even with the family right you create your own

words.

Lindsay: Yeah (yes), Mhh hhm.

Michelle: You have your own way of talking, right?

Lindsay: Or that you have an expression in New Hope, Pennsylvania, right?

Michelle: Yeah (yes), exactly. You develop your own little language. I mean you

have the basics of cores, right, but everybody develops


Michelle: A little slang or a - different idioms for their own subculture.

22


Lindsay: Mhh hhm. And most of those are based on your own personal

experiences with the people in your family. Anyways let’s go a little bit

more broad now, one other thing that I thought was interesting, what was

that next one, Michelle?

Michelle: The next one is your upbringing and the language that your parents use.

Lindsay: My God, I can see this week I’m here with my 2-year-old niece and my

mother, the three of us are – we are taking care – the two us are taking

care of her and my mom speaks to Emery, my niece, in a very specific way.

She’s going to pick up on that so quickly and that’s going to become her

way of speaking from a young age. You know so a lot of the way we speak

depends on the way our parents spoke to us.

Michelle: Right, right. It makes me think of, oh gosh, umm I love my in-laws. I love

you guys. [laughter]

Lindsay: [Laughter]

Michelle: It makes me think of my husband would say like when we were first dating

instead of saying what do you, Lindsay, what do you call that piece of –

when you go on trip and put your clothes in something to carry it?

Lindsay: Luggage or a suitcase?

Michelle: Right. Exactly. So my husband would call it a valise.

Lindsay: What?

Michelle: Okay.

Lindsay: Wow. Is that from French?

Michelle: I guess, I don't know but I think it’s also like a term from another

generation. So his parents

Lindsay: Oh wow.

Michelle: Still call it a valise so my husband grew up also like the valise, I’m like what

are you talking about you sound you know [laughter]

23


Lindsay: Oh wow, that is really interesting. That’s really interesting. I mean if

someone asked him if that word was common, he might say yes because

he might not be thinking about the larger scale.

Michelle: Exactly.

Lindsay: So that’s the danger of you know we have to double check in different

places and we’re going to come to some recommendations guys some

take aways of what you can do here in just a little bit but I like that

example.

Michelle: Yeah (yes), yeah (yes). Oh my goodness. I made so much fun of him in the

beginning. Now he doesn’t say it anymore. [laughter]

Lindsay: You changed his language.

Michelle: I did. I did. I’m like no one says that. [laughter]

Lindsay: Yeah (yes) and the other thing is education levels. Umm

Michelle: Right.

Lindsay: This makes me think of I’ve been seeing on the news what’s going on…

Michelle: Mhh hhm.

Lindsay: With the Trump umm

Michelle: I’ve been thinking about the same thing.

Lindsay: Ah the Trump party and noticed that there was a huge – there was a riot.

There have been a lot of riots. It’s very scary what’s happening right now

with Donald Trump and he is kind of rallying people well some of his

followers are actually starting – they are committing violent acts against

the protesters.

Michelle: Mhh hhm.

Lindsay: And there was one point where a Trump follower punched a protester and

the man was African American that he punched and I heard him explain,

he used a very incorrect – I think he used the simple past when he should

have used the present perfect.

24


Michelle: Hmm

Lindsay: Right and you could just tell that he was not an educated man.

Michelle: Mhh hhm.

Lindsay: When he was interviewed on the news. Okay?


Lindsay: So you do want to want to be careful especially in certain parts of the U.S.,

you’ll find people who are not just educated. Okay? And ahh you just

want to be careful what kind of language you’re listening to and picking up

on.

Michelle: Right. Right, exactly.

Lindsay: Yeah (yes), yeah (yes). That’s interesting. Also what’s the next one,

Michelle?

Michelle: Your career field, right?

Lindsay: Hmm.

Michelle: That’s also you know similar to maybe a subculture, right?

Lindsay: Mhh hhm. Yeah (yes), many of these are subcultures.

Michelle: Yeah (yes), I don't know [laughter]

Lindsay: No, you’re right. Exactly and then region is huge. You know you think in

Maryland, is Maryland, Michelle is that technically the South or is that…?

Michelle: I think it might – I don't know that’s like a big think like.

Lindsay: No, you guys have an identity crisis there.

Michelle: We do. I mean I consider ah ah I consider it to be in the North but I think

technically it’s in the South.

Lindsay: Right so then so I went to college in Virginia.

Michelle: Mhh hhm.

25


Lindsay: The people that I met from Maryland some of them would say “y’all”

meaning you all but pretty much everyone from Virginia would say “y’all”

and everywhere south of that. And if you asked someone from Virginia if

“y’all” is common they will say yeah (yes) sure.

Michelle: Oh yeah (yes).

Lindsay: It’s common, of course it’s common.

Michelle: One of my best friends, she is from South Carolina and they all say “y’all”

“y’all” “y’all” and it’s so cute.

Lindsay: It’s cute. I think it’s very cute. I like it a lot actually but if you ask someone

from Boston if that is common.

Michelle: Right.

Lindsay: They will say no, of course not.

Michelle: Right.

Lindsay: They will probably tell you that’s from the South because we know that.

Michelle: Yeah (yes), that’s a very common one.

Lindsay: Yeah (yes), that’s a more obvious example but it’s just a good example

that we have to be careful, you know, asking what’s common and what’s

not.

Michelle: Right.

Lindsay: So are the next two?

Michelle: Well, generation, right?

Lindsay: Mhh hhm.

Michelle: Which we talked about and amount of time spent inside and outside the

U.S.

Lindsay: Hmm.

Michelle: Can you explain this one Lindsay?

26


Lindsay: Yeah (yes), I was actually thinking about myself as an English teacher in

Japan. When I was in 2005, I started mirroring what my Japanese students

were saying.

Michelle: Ah ha.

Lindsay: So I started mirroring like I don't know if it was an incorrect translation

from Japan or it’s just a – kind of a phrase only used in Japan.

Michelle: Mhh hhm.

Lindsay: For learners of English but not for native speakers in the U.S. or the U.K.

Michelle: Mhh hhm.

Lindsay: So my students would always say “see you”, we warned against this before

on this show that we really don’t use this in the U.S., we see use “see ya”

or we say “bye” but in Japan my students would say “see you” as a

goodbye and I started saying it.

Michelle: I started saying it too almost to the point of where I’m confused now

because remember I told you I do say “see you” but

Lindsay: [Laughter] So English teachers can pick up their students’ language which

is really interesting so you know if you’re in Japan and you ask an English

teacher who has been there for 5 years whether “see you” is common,

they might say yes. Right, so again it’s so funny we have to be careful. We

have to be careful. So Michelle, what do we do? What’s the take away? I

mean what’s our advice from today for Rea and other students listening to

our show?

Michelle: Right, I mean the advice is that you know you really – you have to choose,

you know the English that you’re going to speak, right?


Michelle: You have to think about you know what subcultures are you a part of,

what are you going to hear most of the time, what language should you be

using and what’s your own style, right?

27


Lindsay: Hmm. Exactly. You know think about and to choose that you want to

think about why you’re learning English, are you learning for a career?

Michelle: Mhh hhm.

Lindsay: If you are, if you’re learning to be a like a tech person, you want to get a

job in Silicon Valley if that’s your goal.

Michelle: Mhh hhm.

Lindsay: I know we have some listeners that do want to do that then you should be

listening to podcasts that are coming from tech people in Silicon Valley. I

mean obviously you want to have a diversity of voices in your world and

things to listen to but pay attention to the vocabulary that they use so that

you can become an insider.

Michelle: Right, right, exactly, exactly. So yeah (yes) really just – yeah (yes) soak up

as much information as you can about you know like the English that you

want to speak.

Lindsay: Yeah (yes), I mean that’s the point. I think that things become so much

more interesting when you we have a specific objective. We are not just

blandly looking at textbooks. I mean the textbooks probably try to present

to you the most basic, universal English.

Michelle: Right.

Lindsay: But there really is no universal English.

Michelle: Right.

Lindsay: There is (are) so many subcultures. So you know decide on how you want

to use your English and make it practical. It will motivate you more too.

Michelle: Right, right, exactly. I completely agree with that.

Lindsay: Right and the other take away is of course as we said before when you ask

someone whether or not something is common when they tell you yes or

no think about their position in the world, their background, their

subcultures. Why did they just tell you that that word is common, right?

28


Michelle: Right.

Lindsay: Be very critical about what you hear just don’t take it just because a native

speaker tells you something doesn’t necessarily mean it’s right, the right

answer for you.

Michelle: Right, right, right, right. Exactly. And even though I don’t use the word

“y’all” I know what it means so that’s another thing that it’s still good to

know these things whether or not you use them cuz (because) one of the

great things is that you meet people in the U.S . from all different you

know places, and of all – I mean anywhere you know you’re just with only

one kind of person from one kind of place and so you’re going to hear

these things so even if you don’t say “piece of cake” or “cake walk” or

whatever you probably going to hear it as some point.

Lindsay: Totally agree Michelle. I love it. This is a really good topic today and I

want to say thank you to you know Rea for asking this question, Rea, I like

the way you’re thinking. You know this is the way to think. We want to be

critical about everything we hear especially when it comes to language

learning. Because language learning like I said we can become an insider

in a certain culture which can get us the job we want or can get us the

friends we want or the notoriety we want, whatever it is language has the

power to help us move through our lives and connect.

Michelle: For sure.

Lindsay: M’kay (okay).

Michelle: Awesome.

Lindsay: Yeah (yes). Awesome, Michelle. That was fun.


Lindsay: [laughter] This has been a long one so we better get off the mikes our

listeners can get on with their day.

Michelle: Yeah (yes), really.

Lindsay: Guys thank you so much for listening to the podcast today.

29


Michelle: Thank you.

Lindsay: We appreciate you guys as listeners of All Ears English and we will be back

soon.

Michelle: Okay. Bye guys.

Lindsay: Alright. Bye Michelle.

[Instrumental]




get video one now at AllEarsEnglish.com/insider and if you believe in



30


AEE Episode 508: Personal Space, Honking And Good Service:

Michelle’s Experience in India

[Instrumental]

Announcer: This is an All Ears English Podcast, Episode 508: “Personal Space, Honking

and Good Service: Michelle’s Experience in India”

[Instrumental]


million times. We believe in Connection NOT Perfection ™ with your



York City, USA.

[Instrumental]



[Instrumental]

31


Announcer: Today hear about my experience in India and find out why it was

wonderful, jarring, and confusing all at the same time.

[Instrumental]

Announcer: If you use the right words and phrases in English at work you can build

strong business relationships and you even get the promotions that you’re

looking for go to AllEarsEnglish.com/charisma to get started with a free

video that will teach you how to be charismatic in English. See you there.

[Instrumental]

Michelle: Hey (Hi) Lindsay, how are you?

Lindsay: Hey (Hi) there Michelle, I’m doing pretty well, you?

Michelle: I’m doing really well. I’m starting to finally get back on track because I was

very jet lagged.

Lindsay: Oh my gosh, you just came back from India, woohoo!

Michelle: Yes, oh my goodness. I umm am so tired but it was totally worth it. I had

a wonderful time.

Lindsay: [laughter] That’s good. That’s good.


Lindsay: And we’re excited to hear about it today.

Michelle: Yeah (yes), yeah (yes). So I mean I would really like to – I know our

listeners are probably curious about the trip and I know we have listeners

from India

Lindsay: [laughter]

Michelle: So definitely, hey guys.

Lindsay: Yeah (yes), that’s right we have a lot of listeners in India or from India who

are in the U.S. even, right?

32


Michelle: Exactly yeah (yes), yeah (yes), yeah (yes), exactly. So umm umm Lindsay

are there any questions that you want to ask me about the trip? I thought

we could do a little Q&A.

Lindsay: Absolutely. I mean these are great examples of you know if our listeners

run into someone who has just been traveling.

Michelle: Right.

Lindsay: These are great questions that they could ask.

Michelle: Right.

Lindsay: And we are going to show you guys how to use these questions in a role

play in just a little bit but yeah (yes) Michelle I want to know about so I

mean, where in India did you travel to – where did you go?

Michelle: Okay so huh, it’s a large country, right?


Michelle: And we were in the north, we were in the middle, in the south, we started

in Delhi and we did the “Golden Triangle” which is Delhi, Jaipur, Agra. We

saw the Taj Mahal.

Lindsay: Wow.

Michelle: Yeah (yes), which was beautiful. Then we – let’s see – huh gosh it’s hard

to remember anymore.

Lindsay: [laughter]

Michelle: Oh then we went back to Delhi.

Lindsay: Mhh hhm.

Michelle: Then we went to a place called Chandigarh that’s where the wedding was.

After Chandigarh we went back to Delhi.

Lindsay: Oh wow.

Michelle: To catch a flight to Udaipur.

33


Lindsay: Oh my gosh.

Michelle: Which was beautiful. After Udaipur, we went to Mumbai and after

Mumbai we went to Kerala in the south then back to Delhi and then home.

Lindsay: Oh my gosh, you’ve been all over the place. Wow.

Michelle: Whew!

Lindsay: How did you get around like how did you get to all of these places?


Lindsay: How did you get around the country?

Michelle: So we did a lot of driving and a lot of flying so we did domestic flights. We

did a flight to Udaipur. We did the flight to the south and back up north,

you know all around. We also took a train.

Lindsay: Wow.

Michelle: We took a train from Delhi to Chandigarh and we had someone. The tour

company they had a driver and they drove us around for like the “Golden

Triangle” you know those are 3, 4, 5, 6 hour drives.

Lindsay: Wow.

Michelle: And they drove us around there and then through the cities and you know

for more of the closer trips that we did.

Lindsay: Oh my gosh. Oh God you must be exhausted. [laughter]

Michelle: Yup (yes).

Lindsay: You’re tired. You’re tired.

Michelle: I’m starting to feel like back to myself. Like today’s the first day I think I’m

like oh wait my name is Michelle.

Lindsay: Yeah (yes) [laughter]

Michelle: Hello. Nice to meet you again. [laughter]

34


Lindsay: [laughter] That’s awesome. And here is another good question that our

listeners could ask at a party if they run into someone who has just been

traveling, right? I could ask you, you know, Michelle what surprised you

the most about India?

Michelle: Hmm, that’s a good question.

Lindsay: Hmm

Michelle: I mean so much, so much was surprising to me. I mean I knew. I had been

prepared, a lot of people told me you know that here is a lot of poverty

and you know that you see the extremes you know very, very rich and you

know unfortunately the very, very poor as well.


Michelle: So but still when you see it, it’s really shocking because there were a lot of

ups and downs on this trip I mean in the trip you go from seeing beautiful

things and then unfortunately you see now some people who are having a

terrible time.


Michelle: You know they are hungry and they don’t have a place to live and it’s very

sad.


Michelle: So that was surprising to actually see, umm let’s see what else was

surprising. Umm I think umm it was surprising the driving situation

because we had a driver and that’s very common in India to you know.

Lindsay: Mhh hhm.

Michelle: In the U.S., you pretty much you take a cab and that’s about it.

Lindsay: Yeah (yes). Sure, sure.

Michelle: Like unless maybe you’re a celebrity and then you have a driver but

Lindsay: Right.

35


Michelle: There it’s very common to have a driver and they wait for you.

Lindsay: Mhh hhm. Mhh hhm.

Michelle: So we did that. And that is not only for tourism like that’s for you know

people, friends of ours they said they had drivers and so yeah (yes) that

was a very interesting thing. Also oh one more thing, in Delhi, the traffic is

intense.


Michelle: And here in the U.S. if you honk (at) someone it is almost scary, you know.

Lindsay: You don’t want to honk at someone, yeah (yes).

Michelle: You don’t want to honk the horn too much unless it’s like a umm critical.

Lindsay: Right. This is being said from a New Yorker? [laughter]

Michelle: Yeah (yes), well no. Well I don’t drive in New York, goodness.

Lindsay: [Laughter]

Michelle: Umm here like you honk but it’s like here it’s a little dangerous to honk

because you don’t never know if somebody you know.

Lindsay: Right, right, right, sure. No it’s disturbing but is it very common in India,

everyone is honking, oh

Michelle: Exactly, it’s like they ask you to honk like some of the trucks on the back of

it. Honk horn okay, you know or something like that.

Lindsay: Ohhh. Wow, okay.

Michelle: They want you to honk the horn because that’s how they know that you’re

there. So there is honking all of the time especially in Delhi. So those

were a few of the surprising things.

Lindsay: Wow, that’s interesting. It’s such a culture shock I would imagine, you

know, when you first arrive and there are horns going off everywhere and

it’s hot and wow it’s so intense. Intense is probably the word right?

36


Michelle: Definitely, I mean you are right, coming from New York, the honking didn’t

surprise me as much as it probably would have if I came from where else.

Lindsay: Yeah (yes) [laughter]

Michelle: Umm but still like just like the thought process behind you know using the

horn was still surprising.

Lindsay: Hmm. It’s different okay. Right because the thought process behind using

the horn in the U.S. is kind of when you’re angry.

Michelle: Right.

Lindsay: Sometimes it’s used to just warn someone that you’re there and that is

how it should be actually.

Michelle: Right.

Lindsay: But we – it’s more that we use it when we have road rage, honestly here in

the U.S.

Michelle: Right.

Lindsay: I think. I hear people in Boston will just sit on their horns, right.


Lindsay: They sit on their horns. They just don’t bump it real quickly to let

someone know that they are there, they sit on the horn. BEEEEEEP

Michelle: Yup (yes), right yup (yes).

Lindsay: And I can tell that person is angry.

Michelle: Yeah (yes) right and that can be startling when you’re driving and you hear

that. You know it’s just not looked at in the same way. You know like you

said there could be road rage or and you know don’t some – it can be

dangerous to use your horn in that way. Umm but in Delhi it’s just beep,

beep, beep, beep, beep.

Lindsay: Yeah (yes) right, yeah (yes).

Michelle: Hello, everyone. And also I’m coming through.

37


Lindsay: Right.

Michelle: In other parts of India as well but really mostly in Delhi I noticed it.

Lindsay: Hmm. I like that it’s interesting because that sounds like a kinder

environment than people here in Boston just having repressed road rage,

suppressed and repressed road rage.

Michelle: [laughter] yeah (yes).

Lindsay: You know we can go into that another day. I have some more questions

for you Michelle.

Michelle: Okay.

Lindsay: [laughter] Umm so – so did you speak only in English, did you speak Hindi?

I mean how is your Hindi?

Michelle: Oh hahaha [laughter]

Lindsay: [laughter]

Michelle: Not good. My Hindi is not good.

Lindsay: [laughter]

Michelle: I was able to mostly communicate in English. You know English is

definitely spoken in India a lot. They say that

Lindsay: Mhh hhm.

Michelle: Our tour guards – guides were saying that it’s the business language which

was interesting.

Lindsay: Yeah (yes), sure. Sure, right, yeah (yes).

Michelle: So most signs are in Hindi and English and umm I definitely noticed

regional differences like in Delhi and Mumbai there was a lot of English

spoken.

Lindsay: Mhh hhm.

38


Michelle: We could pretty much get around no problems but umm I remember I

think it was Udaipur I mean not to generalize but I noticed that like even at

our hotel like the people working at the hotels and like Mumbai, Delhi and

things like that they spoke pretty fluent English and in some of the other

places umm it was a little bit harder to communicate so again I don’t want

to generalize because it’s not that I’m an expert or anything but this is just

what I saw. Umm so some places were different than others in terms of

using English.

Lindsay: Yeah (yes), no absolutely. And then of course we know that there are a lot

of like tons and tons of regional languages right native regional.

Michelle: Exactly. Yeah (yes), you’ve got Hindi and then you’ve got your regional

language.

Lindsay: Right, right.

Michelle: It’s a just incredible to me how, you know, people are bilingual, trilingual

all of these things and really amazing.

Lindsay: It’s amazing. Yeah (yes) that’s the one thing. Here in the U.S., it’s

generally one language and it’s kind of sad that we haven’t been able to

teach ourselves to use different languages. We should be able to.

Michelle: I agree. Yeah (yes)

Lindsay: But what were the people like that you met? I mean it’s hard to generalize

again because everyone is different but what were they like?

Michelle: Umm I thought the people where very friendly. Umm people are very

friendly to I think guests.

Lindsay: Okay.

Michelle: You know it’s a very important that they are kind to people who are

visiting and so I would say that I had very for the most part positive

experiences with the people. I would say that an interesting thing is when

you go shopping.

Lindsay: Mhh hhm.

39


Michelle: Because again, not to generalize but in my experience, people were very

much like they – the sales people would follow you, I mean not at every

store at all but in many of the stores they have they follow you around.


Michelle: And they talk to you about what you’re looking at so it’s hard to get this

moment of peace.

Lindsay: Oh.

Michelle: You know in the U.S. it’s sometimes it can be even hard to find someone

to help you or you just go into a store in the U.S. and it’s like oh do you

need any help, oh no thanks I’m just looking.

Lindsay: That’s interesting so it’s kind of like the definition of good service in the

retail sector is different maybe across cultures, right?


Lindsay: Good service here in the U.S. means yeah (yes) maybe someone says hello

to you when you walk through the door of the shop.


Lindsay: And you know they ask you hey do you need any help? And if you say no,

I’m just looking. They stay away.

Michelle: Yes.

Lindsay: But they are still available, right, so you could ask a question whereas

maybe in India good service is more like they follow you around, I don't

know so…

Michelle: That’s what I sort of realized because at first I thought it was more like oh

in the market places that they follow you around but then even in the

hotel like we went to look there was a little spa in the hotel and we were

thinking maybe we should something so we were staring at the spa menu

and the person was staring at us and asking us a lot of questions about it

and wouldn’t really let us think and honestly it was to the point where we

ended up not doing anything because I just couldn’t.

40


Lindsay: Oh.

Michelle: I couldn’t have a second to think clearly so I’m like just forget it.

Lindsay: Oh, that’s so interesting.

Michelle: But I realized it’s just not just in the market place. Then I was surprised

because there were many shops that I went to where nobody would bug –

you know it was more like in the U.S. but it was interesting how it wasn’t

just the marketplace. It was even at the hotel or even at the hotel gift

shop.

Lindsay: So it sounds that part of what is playing in here is our cultural differences

regarding personal space.

Michelle: Yes.

Lindsay: You know.


Lindsay: That maybe be part of it. You know like I don’t like to be – first of all you

know we have the bubble, the physical space.

Michelle: Right.

Lindsay: We don’t want anyone coming into our physical bubble and it sounds like

were they standing quite close to you when they were.



Michelle: Yeah (yes) I just want to look and that – that wasn’t really possible and

eventually you start to get used to it but you don’t want to be rude and

say like leave me alone or anything like that but eventually you get a little

uncomfortable and you start to get used to it but it’s really ah quite

different and I do think it’s what you said Lindsay, I don’t think it’s

supposed to be like irritating or you know make things difficult for people.

Lindsay: Right.

41


Michelle: I just think it’s a different concept of what is good service like here they

you know they are there and they are going to be there with you until you

leave.

Lindsay: Yeah (yes), no that’s good service. That’s interesting so it’s like good

service versus bad service across cultures. There are so many interesting

topics that we could go into another day but let’s keep going through this

Michelle. I think we have heard about some of the interesting things that

you did, right?

Michelle: Mhh hhm.

Lindsay: Is there one more really quick like – quickly one more interesting thing or…

?

Michelle: I would say that I really loved the Taj Mahal.

Lindsay: Cool.

Michelle: I loved to see the Taj Mahal. There was one thing that I was thinking and

oh gosh you know that was really, really interesting. Umm we saw a lot of

different forts and palaces and the wedding was very interesting.

Lindsay: Wow, that sounds awesome. Wow.

Michelle: So there’s one thing that I wanted to say and I forgot. Okay, well I’m sure

it will come – [laughter] – it will come to me.

Lindsay: You can say it in another episode.

Michelle: Yeah (yes), sure, sure, sure.

Lindsay: We can keep sharing little tidbits about India in the future.

Michelle: Sure.

Lindsay: For sure. I’m getting some ideas for episodes too and before we go into

the next piece guys I want to remind you. You can get the transcripts from

today. To really understand everything that Michelle is saying here about

her experiences, if you go to AllEarsEnglish.com/transcripts and it’s also a

really, really good way to just to make sure that you’re mirroring the

42


native accent, right, that’s the way to start to pick up our native accent

and it’s by following us with the transcript. So go on over and grab that

guys. Okay?

Michelle: Yes, yes, yes.

[Instrumental]

Announcer: The best way to become natural and fluent in English is to use the right

words. You can get the “The 100 Most Common Phrases in English” today

for free. It’s an e-book and you can download it instantly, go to

AllEarsEnglish.com/100.

[Instrumental]

Lindsay: So Michelle, let’ go ahead and teach our listeners some phrases from

today so that if they come back from an exciting experience traveling

abroad, they could talk about it, right?

Michelle: Okay, perfect.

Lindsay: So what’s the first one that you had?

Michelle: The first one is to call something “eye opening”.

Lindsay: Yeah (yes), I like that. I mean literally it’s kind of obvious what it means,

right?

Michelle: Right.

Lindsay: It opens your eyes, like wow!

Michelle: Surprising or shocking in some way or like it made you – I think of “eye

opening” it’s like - made you learn something.

Lindsay: Yeah (yes), no exactly, I love that. I love that. And then the next

expression is what?

Michelle: Is “it’s hard to express” or it’s really hard to express” right?


43


Michelle: So I would say that about India. It’ such a unique place, “it’s hard to

express” like all the things that I felt and all the things that I did and things

like that.

Lindsay: Right because when you first came back last week when we were talking

you didn’t know what to say when I asked you like to describe it. It’ like a

visceral feeling. It’s more of an experience than a way to express it in

words, right?

Michelle: Right. Exactly.

Lindsay: Yeah (yes). Okay what else? What else could someone say about a

difficult trip?

Michelle: You could say “Oh it was a real challenge” so my trip was like it was not

relaxing on the beach, we were running around all of the time. You heard

planes, trains and – planes, a train and car rides


Michelle: And “it’s challenging”.

Lindsay: Yeah (yes). No totally, totally. Again if something is hard to describe and

you want someone to go to really understand it what would say?

Michelle: I would say “you have to see it for yourself or you really have to see it for

yourself”.

Lindsay: Yeah (yes), and that seems like that’s the lesson for today, right? We

really need to go ourselves too.

Michelle: Yeah (yes)! So guys, you have to go.

Lindsay: And then two more expressions that we want to teach our listeners here.

Michelle: Huh Ha.

Lindsay: What was the next one?

Michelle: The next one is “It was out of this world”. It’s like.

Lindsay: Hmm.

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Michelle: Like I can’t even explain, right?

Lindsay: Yeah (yes). And what’s one really cool adjective to describe that’s just like

this “out of this world”?

Michelle: “Spectacular”

Lindsay: “Spectacular”

Michelle: “Amazing”

Lindsay: Oh I never hear that but it’s good. You know sometimes we repeat the

same adjectives over and over like “amazing” but another one that we

could put in for our listeners is “spectacular”.

Michelle: Like really amazing.

Lindsay: Have a little variety.

Michelle: Right.

Lindsay: In our adjectives guys. Okay good. So Michelle let’s jump into a typical

conversation that our listeners would really be able to mirror this

conversation and use something similar when they’re interacting with

other people in English. Let’s do it. I’m going to ask you some questions

here. Are you ready?

Michelle: Yes.

Lindsay: So how was your trip to India, Michelle?

Michelle: Oh man, Lindsay, “it was out of this world”.

Lindsay: Oh really, wow. So how so?

Michelle: Oh well, “it’s really hard to express”. I saw amazing things. I loved see the

spectacular view of Lake Pichola in Udaipur but in some ways “it was a real

challenge”.

Lindsay: How was it challenging?

45


Michelle: Well, there’s unfortunately a lot of poverty so I saw a lot of that in the

streets and it was disheartening. Umm “It was so eye opening” and made

me think about how fortunate I am to have food and clean water.

Lindsay: Oh yeah (yes), I’ve heard that. That must be tough to see.

Michelle: Yeah (yes) but there was so many amazing things about India that I saw. I

loved it and it was an incredible trip. “You really have to see it for

yourself”.

Lindsay: Yeah (yes), I really want to go one day. I’ve got to go.

Michelle: [laughter] Awesome.

Lindsay: [laughter] Okay. Good. So you used a lot of the expressions here

Michelle, I like that. So we fit them all in here. First you said, oh man, “it

was out of this world”.

Michelle: Right and then you asked me how and I said well, “it’s really hard to

express” and I said that there were “spectacular” views of Lake Pichola.

Lindsay: Mhh hhm and as a bonus for our listeners here I like how I said oh really

wow. “How so?”

Michelle: Ahhh.

Lindsay: “How so?” now that is kind of an advanced language construction there.

Michelle: Yes, that’s true.

Lindsay: Yeah (yes) so our more advanced listeners could try to plug that in. Guys

again if you want to see these words written out, get the transcripts. Go

to AllEarsEnglish.com/transcripts. So then you said in some ways “it was a

real challenge”, right?

Michelle: Mhh hhm. Mhh hhm.


Michelle: And then I called the trip “eye opening”, right?

Lindsay: Yeah (yes). Another good adjective. Yeah (yes). Okay.

46


Michelle: And then I finally said that “you really have to see it for yourself”, right?

Lindsay: Yeah (yes), what an experience. I mean I’ve been told nothing prepares

you for what your body and mind are going to go through when you go to

India. You know you can travel all over Latin America, you can travel all

over Asia, and nothing quite prepares you for India, itself, that country. So

it sounds like you’ve been through a whirlwind of challenges and

experiences good and bad Michelle and just like of visceral, a visceral trip,

right?

Michelle: Yes, absolutely.

Lindsay: Good for you.

Michelle: Overall, I really loved it. [laughter]

Lindsay: Awesome, I’m glad you had a good trip and you know I’m sure this is going

to seep into our conversations.

Michelle: Yes.

Lindsay: Here in the future. I’d like to explore this concept of road rage, you know.

Michelle: Yes.

Lindsay: But for today Michelle I think we better wrap it up here and let our

listeners get on with their day but thanks for sharing this with us Michelle.

I know that sometimes travelling can be very personal; the experiences

that you go through can be very personal. So that thanks for opening up

for us.

Michelle: Oh sure, thanks for asking and thanks for listening everyone.

Lindsay: [laughter] Alright cool. I’ll you back here next time Michelle.

Michelle: See you later.

Lindsay: Bye bye.

[Instrumental]

47








48


AEE Episode 509: How to Use the Phrase So Far Like The Cool Kids Do

Announcer: This is an All Ears English Podcast, Episode 509: “How to Use the Phrase So

Far Like the Cool Kids Do”

[Instrumental]


million times. We believe in Connection NOT Perfection™ with your



York City, USA.

[Instrumental]



[Instrumental]

Announcer: Today find out how to use the phrase “so far” in English to get more

advanced and more specific with your vocabulary choices.

[Instrumental]

49


Announcer: Hey (Hi) guys, if you want to be charismatic at work get our free video

master class where you learn charisma in few simple phrases. Go to

AllEarsEnglish.com/charisma.

[Instrumental]

Lindsay: Hey (Hi) Michelle, what’s going on with you today in New York?

Michelle: Hey (Hi) Lindsay, not too much, not too much. How are you?

Lindsay: Well I’m feeling good just came back from that weekend in Burlington and

I got a lot of sleep last night and I’m spending a lot of time with 2-year-old

niece which is so cool.

Michelle: Ahhh.

Lindsay: It’s the coolest thing when a kid learns your name and they start to

recognize you.

Michelle: Ohh. I know. I know. It’s incredible. [laughter]

Lindsay: It’s so cool. It’s so cool. She’s not – right now she is just repeating words.

She’s not quite stringing together sentences but she is getting close.

Michelle: Mhh hhm. Oh that’s so exciting.

Lindsay: [laughter] It’s amazing, it’s amazing. [laughter]


Lindsay: So anyways Michelle, we are not talking about kids but we are actually

talking about an expression that I think that at our listeners’ level this is

the right time to add in this little construction here.

Michelle: Mhh hhm.

Lindsay: And the reason I thought of this was we got a nice email from a listener

and she used this construction in what I think is kind of an advanced way.

Michelle: Mhh hhm.

Lindsay: So Michelle would you read this email that we got from our listener and

we can pick it out?

50


Michelle: Okay, so it was.

Lindsay: I don’t know who it was. I can’t remember the name of the person but

that’s okay.

Michelle: Oh well, it says “I’m doing very well. Thank you for asking me. I’m busy

“so far”. I’m working as an EMIS coordinator with my partner. I’m helping

her. We take care of 17 schools in Ohio. We are busy but “so far” so

good.”

Lindsay: Good so what do you like about what this listener said to us here?

Michelle: “So far”

Lindsay: “So far”

Michelle: And “so far so good”, very I think it’s very common.

Lindsay: Yeah (yes), I like – especially I like the last part. “We’re busy but “so far so

good” I just think this is very native. You know?

Michelle: Yeah (yes). Yeah (yes), absolutely.

Lindsay: And Michelle what’s a good way just so our listeners know what would be

a good way to make sure for our listeners to make sure that they catch

you every word we are saying today and that they can really understand

how to use this expression “so far”?

Michelle: Transcripts.

Lindsay: Transcripts woo woo hoo!


Lindsay: Guys the transcripts are back, very exciting I know, and you can now go

ahead and just buy this week’s transcripts and you can also sign up to get

next – every week’s transcripts delivered to your email automatically.

Michelle: Nice.

51


Lindsay: So that’s a very good option, guys so go on over right now to

AllEarsEnglish.com/transcripts and sign up. Okay. Michelle so what does

“so far” mean?

Michelle: “So far” means up to now.

Lindsay: Mhh hhm.

Michelle: Umm until now, up to this point, right? “Thus far”

Lindsay: “Thus far”


Lindsay: Which of those is a little bit more formal sounding?

Michelle: “Thus far”

Lindsay: “Thus far” I like to use that sometimes.

Michelle: Do you?

Lindsay: Because I sound smart when I use it.

Michelle: [laughter] That’s cute.

Lindsay: You know so for example “up to now” so “up to know”, “until now”, “up to

this point” this is my favorite dish if I’m doing a – this weekend we went to

a chocolate tasting. We went to chocolate factory and we had to do a

taste test to see – to categorize the chocolates.

Michelle: Very nice.

Lindsay: So we are halfway through the taste testing and I could have said.

Michelle: Ahhh.

Lindsay: “So far” this is my favorite chocolate.

Michelle: Ahh, very good. Yeah (yes), I like that.

Lindsay: Right but it implies right that we are not done yet, right?

Michelle: Exactly, exactly.

52


Lindsay: I think that’s one of the key points from today. “So far” implies that we

are still in the process of doing something, right?

Michelle: Right.

Lindsay: So my chocolate tasting was not done.

Michelle: [laughter] Nice

Lindsay: “So far” – it was really cool. I think it’s Burlington Chocolates, Burlington

Chocolate Factory or something but really good chocolate, you know.

Michelle: Nice.

Lindsay: You can get it at Whole Foods so good stuff. [laughter]


Lindsay: Alright so then what’s the second way, slightly different but similar way

that “so far” is used? Or meaning for it.

Michelle: Right so another way is it means “to a limited extent” right? So like you

can only go “so far” on $7.

Lindsay: Yeah (yes) and these days, what can you do with $7, not a whole lot, you

know.

Michelle: Right.

Lindsay: You can get a meal at McDonald’s, maybe that’s pretty much it.

Michelle: Yeah (yes) maybe. [laughter]

Lindsay: Yeah (yes) so those are the two meanings or the two ways that it is used

so now we are going to give our listeners plenty of examples, right?

Michelle: Mhh hhm.

Lindsay: So Michelle, how is your day going “so far”?

Michelle: Umm my day is going well “so far”, “so far so good”, right? No – no – I was

feeling a little bit sick yesterday but today “so far so good”.

53


Lindsay: Awesome. And then another way to use it would be like oh like for

example you know, how are the elections going so far?

Michelle: Mhh hhm.

Lindsay: We’ve just had the primaries, right?

Michelle: Mhh hhm.

Lindsay: I think “so far” it’s been – our listeners know we elect the new president

this coming November so we are really “in the thick of it right now”, right?

Michelle: Oh yes.

Lindsay: Bonus phrase. Bonus phrase.

Michelle: Oh yes.

Lindsay: Yeah (yes), I would say to Michelle like what do you think about the

elections “so far”? What do you think about the voting season “so far”?

Michelle: It’s crazy. [laughter]

Lindsay: It’s really heating up with Donald Trump.

Michelle: It’s very intense and a lot of arguments.

Lindsay: Oh my God, I have never seen it this intense before.


Lindsay: And I think people are getting kind of scared. [laughter]

Michelle: Yup (yes), I think so too.

Lindsay: With what’s happening here. Umm any other examples?

Michelle: Alright like,

Lindsay: “So far”?

Michelle: How is the team doing “so far”, right?

Lindsay: Hmm

54


Michelle: Like oh it’s the middle of the basketball team – basketball season or

something like. How is the team doing “so far”?

Lindsay: Exactly. Or another thing we could say is “So far” today, we haven’t had

any tech issues. Although we did have one where we lost the connection a

few minutes ago. [laughter]

Michelle: That’s true. Oh well.

Lindsay: But “so far” we haven’t had too many tech issue, right Michelle?

Michelle: That’s good.

Lindsay: Yeah (yes), “so far” today, right?

Michelle: That’s right.

Lindsay: Okay good.

[Instrumental]

Announcer: To stop speaking like a textbook and start speaking like a real native

speaker, get “The 100 Most Common Phrases in English”, it’s a free e-book

and you can download it now. Go to AllEarsEnglish.com/100.

[Instrumental]

Lindsay: So ahh, I want to encourage our listeners again to use this expression so

far so good I mean it’s kind of obvious what it means, right Michelle?

Michelle: Right, it’s like up until now like “so far” everything is okay like no

problems.

Lindsay: Good. And one key piece when we’re talking about grammar is what kind

of grammar are we using when use “so far” because we know that it’s –

we are in the process of something. We are still doing something.

Michelle: Mhh hhm. Right.

Lindsay: So what do we use?

Michelle: Right so you’re probably going to use the present perfect, right?

55


Lindsay: Mhh hhm.

Michelle: “So far” I haven’t had any problems with my apartment.

Lindsay: Perfect or “so far” today, we haven’t experienced any problems with the

technical issues today.

Michelle: Right, right, exactly.

Lindsay: Perfect. So guys that’s really important cuz (because) if you use the

present tense with this, it just sounds weird, okay? It doesn’t work. Right?

Michelle: Yeah (yes), I guess I mean I guess you could say like “so far” I don’t see any

problems with this or something like that.

Lindsay: Hmm. Yeah (yes), I mean maybe occasionally natives might say that.

Michelle: Yeah (yes), I think we would but yeah (yes) it’s like one of those where it’s

probably not correct but we say it anyway.

Lindsay: Yeah (yes) so I think as learners of English, we want to start with the

correct way of saying it.

Michelle: Yes, exactly.

Lindsay: And then we can – there is something like this whole idea of you know to

become a master at something, first you learn the words,


Lindsay: I’m sorry first you learn the rules and you become a master and then you

can break the rules, right?

Michelle: You can break them, yes, I think we spoke about this once before with

music. It’s like yeah (yes) you learn the correct way to do things and then

you can figure out some of the other things you can do.

Lindsay: Yeah (yes), yeah (yes). Cuz (because) then we understand the whole

context and we understand why a native speaker might break the rule,

right? But before that we want to try to follow the rules until we can start

to improvise and have more freedom.

56


Michelle: Exactly.

Lindsay: I like that motto.


Lindsay: But in the end, we always come back to Connection NOT Perfection ™ of

course that is our baseline belief here at All Ears English. Okay, cool,

Michelle. So let’s have a little conversation and let’s mix in “so far” here to

show our listeners how it’s done.

Michelle: Alright.

Lindsay: Hey (Hi) Michelle, wow. I’m surprised to bump into you.

Michelle: Oh hey Lindsay.

Lindsay: Wow, wait don’t you live downtown?

Michelle: Oh no, not anymore actually. I just moved to this neighborhood. We

moved into a place at 88th and Lexington last Sunday.

Lindsay: Oh wow, that’s exciting. How are you liking the neighboring – duh


Lindsay: How are you liking the neighborhood “so far”?

Michelle: Oh, “so far” it seems great. I love all of the coffee shops nearby and it’s so

close to the subway which is great.

Lindsay: Yeah (yes), there’s also a bus stop right down on 77th and Lex but so far I

haven’t had to use it because the subway is so close.

Michelle: Oh wow, well enjoy settling in and let me know if you want to get coffee

some afternoon?

Lindsay: I think I messed up somewhere.

Michelle: Yeah (yes). Wait a second.

57


Lindsay: No problem. Our listeners still heard the language so that’s all that

matters. So very cool. So here we used “so far” in a couple of different

places right?

Michelle: Mhh hhm. Right so I said – oh you asked me – how are you liking the

neighborhood “so far”?

Lindsay: Right and before we said the present perfect is always used but of course

that’s only when we are talking about things up to this point, right so here

we are using “ing” form and I guess this is just another example of how – it

could – this is also okay, right, Michelle, how are you liking something “so

far”.

Michelle: Right.

Lindsay: So I guess we can deviate outside of using the present perfect but guys

just listen for it and see how it is used by natives.

Michelle: Exactly. Yeah (yes) and then I said “so far” it seems great. Right or I could

have said “so far so good”, right?

Lindsay: Hmm “so far so good” I think that would have been better here. Yeah

(yes), “so far so good” and then here we said umm there is also a bus stop

right down on Lex but “so far” I haven’t had to use it, okay?

Michelle: Mhh hhm.

Lindsay: I haven’t had to use it. Here we are using the present perfect so I like that

yeah (yes). Up to this point, I haven’t had to use it.

Michelle: Right, right, right. Exactly. Yeah (yes).

Lindsay: Yeah (yes), cool. So we had a little bonus here. Lex. I think we’ve taught

this on this show before but if any of our listeners are living in Manhattan

or visiting Manhattan what do they need to know about Lexington

Avenue?

Michelle: It’s very nice.

Lindsay: [laughter] Yeah (yes), it’s very nice and we also call it Lex, not just

Lexington.

58


Michelle: Oh, yeah (yes), yeah (yes), yeah (yes). Well that too yes.

Lindsay: [laughter]


Lindsay: It’s very nice.

Michelle: It also made me think of the other use of “so far”, it’s like oh well like it’s

like $2000 a month will only get you “so far” in Manhattan, right?

Lindsay: Hmm, that’s a good point, right. So that’s what we need to know about

the Upper East Side, a certain amount of money will only get you “so far”

in terms of renting an apartment, right?

Michelle: Right. Exactly.

Lindsay: But like we said before I think that downtown is more expensive than

Uptown these day unless you want to live on Park Avenue and that’s just

very expensive.

Michelle: Right, right. [laughter]

Lindsay: [Laughter] Alright, good. So guys get the transcripts from today, if you

really want to solidify your learning go to AllEarsEnglish.com/transcripts

and Michelle any final thoughts on today’s episode?

Michelle: I think it was very fun.

Lindsay: [Laughter]

Michelle: So guys we hope you enjoyed and yeah (yes) definitely listen – oh read the

transcripts.

Lindsay: Read the transcripts, yes.

Michelle: And yeah (yes), ahh everything is good.

Lindsay: Alright cool, we’ll see you here next week, Michelle. Take care.

Michelle: See you later.

Lindsay: Bye, bye.

59


Michelle: Bye

[Instrumental]





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