parliamentary debates [hansard] legislative assembly 7

Queensland

Parliamentary Debates [Hansard]

Legislative Assembly

TUESDAY, 12 SEPTEMBER 1911

Electronic reproduction of original hardcopy

.892 Health Act Amendment B'l11. [ASSEMBLY.l Questions .

I,l!lGISLATIVE ASGEMBL Y.

Tl!ESDAY, 12 SEPTIDITIER, 1911.

The SPEAKER (Hon. \V. D. Armstrong-, Lockyer) took the chair at half-past 3 o'clock.

QUESTIONS. ABOmGINAI, PnoTEC'riO".

Mr. HODGE (Burn It) asked the Fame Secretary-

" 1. Has he had any report or intimati0n of tbe behaviour of the aborigines, or any of thern \Yho Wr>re rernoved fron1 Yarrabah as incor;·igiblc, since their arrival at Barambah settlernent?

" 2. If so, what is the nature or tenor of such report or intin1ation?

" 3 Is it the l)ractice to have the books uf n1isRi;n station;;;, "to \Vhich the Government give a subsidy, audited by a Governn1ent official?

" 4. If not, is it not desirable that such book,, should be audited, and will he take steps tO' have these accounts audited periodically?

" 5. How docs the p:r.esent adnlinistration. of the Denartment for Aborigines compare wrth the ad1llinistration of the san1e department ly the late Chief Protector, D,·, Roth?

" 6. ~What was the amount of salary paid to~ Dr. Roth in 1904 and 1905, and what was the full amount of his allowance each yehr?

"7. What was the cost of travelling and escort expenses of Dr. Roth for the y~ar 1904?

"8. \"\That is the cost of travelling and escort, if any, of the present Chief Protector?

" 9. At what salary \Vas the pre..,ent Chief Protector appointed, and what increao:;;eH iG such salary have since been given him?"

Quest1~on:.-. [12 SEPTlDIBER.] 893

The Ho:\IE SECRETARY (Han. J. G. Appel, Albert) replied-

" .1. Yes; a verbal staten1ent by the superintendent.

" 2. That there bud bd~ll no trouble by ab~rigines ft'Oll1 Yarra!- ah.

"3. ::-io. " 4. It is, and it is intended that they sh::tll

be audited in future. "5. Very favourably, judging by the con

tinued ilnprovenu:nt of ihe nborigines and stations.

"' 6. Salary, £938. Allowance, 1304, £10 lOs. ; allowanc ..;, 1905, nil.

" 7. £12 3s. 7d. " 8. For 1810-11, £162 7s. lOd. "9. Appointed at £280. Increase~' since

1 'l07 -S, £20; 1910-11, £30."

SALARIES OF CERTAIN Go' ERNMENT E)IPLOTEES.

J\Ir. :\IAY (Flinders) asked the Chief Sccreta.ry-

" How many Gove1'11111ent employ€es over three y.- _lrs in the service, exceeding twentyone years of ag2, are \'iOrki:ag for less than £110 l'Er ann urn? "

The PREMIER (Ron. D. F. Denham, Oxlry) replied-

"l1,rmn the forn1 in 'Thhich the question is put, I find it would be in1pm"' ible to give an intelligible ans\vtr. If the hon. gentleman will l110Ye for a return, r· will furni h a con:mre-hensive answer." -

Mr. 1\IAY: I will move for a. return.

BLAIR ATHOL-RA I ENSWOOD-CHAllTERS ToWERS RAILWAY.

iifr. FOLEY (Tozcnsvillc), -for Mr. O'Sullivan, asked the Secretary for Railways~

~' 1. Is it rorrect, as stated in to-day's Cour1· r., that Mr. Greensill, surveyor, ha3 con1pleted the survey of the Townsviue-Inghan1 Railway?

" 2. If so, is he now available to survey the Blair Athol-Ravenswood-Charters Towers Rail\Vay, as was promised by the Secretary for R:jlways to a deputation that waited on him in August, 1910?"

The SEGRETARY FOR RAILWAYS (Han. W. T. Paget, :Mackay) replied-

" 1. Yes. " 2. Unfortunately, Mr. Greensill is not

avejlable, as he intends resigning his position as a railway surveyor; but a surveyor will be detailf d for this work as soon possible."

LAURA TO JliUXGAKA RAILWAY.

1\lr. DOUGLAS (Cook) ask<?d the Secretary for Railways-

" Can he state at about what date he expects to be able to arrange for an inspection of the proposed railway-Laura to Mungana?,.

The SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS replied-

. Owing to extreme pressure of work the Chief Engineer will not be able to make this inspection until after the next wet season."

Mr. THEODORE: We have heard that before.

Tl11:~ following \vera ordered to

Sixteenth r~.. uLdcr Act.

PAPERS.

nancrs, laid on the table; ~ix ... printed:~

of the ~\.uditor-Gener.al SuprenlO Cvurts Funds

Return to an Order, relati,Te to op~rations under the \Yorkers' Dwellmgs Act, made by t!w House, Dn motion Df Mr. D. Hunter, on 5th September.

Interim report (No. 1) of the board of advice on prickly pear destructwn.

R-eturn to an Ordc2', relative to sclocti?1l& in Atherton district, mado Ly the F.fcu.:;., ... on n~otion of 1-lr. ::.Vl::u1n, err 29th .August last.

PETITIONS. LIQUOR BILL.

1\L-. \YINSTA:\JLEY (Charters To1vcrs) presented a pet:,ition fro1n the Independent Order of }~ochabites, Charters ?.10\\ e_rs, Tr Liquor Bill; also petitions of sirn1lar 1111port h:om two 1lethodist churches.

P€titions receivfd.

SG'PPLY. FINA~CIAL ST.\TEl\IC:\T~ItESU}lP'l'IOX OF DEBAT.o.

1::;- COM1UT fEE.

Quesiion~That there be- grar1u- d to lfis -=viajesty, for the sen-ice of the year 191l-12, a sum not exc>:e.ding £600, to defray trw «,;.ilary of the aide-de--can1p to }lis Exce~lency tho Governor,-stuted.

l\L·. FORSYTH (Jlor"ton) :. I thi~1k the oountry, this !louse, .and h1,;;:.e"\~'lSG the Goverp~ rnent are to be congratulatetl on th~ r(''3ults of the last financial Y'" ar. VVe 1:ece1v?d the oreatest amount of revenue rc-L:elved rn one ;ear in the history of Queensland; and \Ve

-~lso ".pent the rnost n1oney that ~has been spent in Quoensland in Dne year. 1he State· ,n1ent is n10st optimistic; and, T<:h1le. l,t ~s good to be D1)timistic as a rule, I thmK 1t is well sometimes to lDok at the other s1de; It is all very well to talk about the slnp_ ot State taking advantage Df the freshemng breezes and under no ciruurnstanccs shorten~ ing sail; but if yon put on too much sail, and the br-ec:-v;!";e gets a b1t too st~·ong, the vessel is inclined to h,,el Dver a little, :wd probably sometimes will heel DVcr a little too much. It is perfectly true that onr prosperity has been at high pressure; but while the winds of pwsperity have been. m our favour in n1v f'"ti1nation the very tunc to take in , a little sail is duri;,g our greatest prosperity.

OPPOSITION I\olE:\IBERS : Hear, hear!

1\fr FORSYTH : Because D11D never knows exactly 1vhat is going to happen. I~ is r;orfcctlY true that we have a small surp1us artei~ squa.ring ,ac-counts; but ·1NB n1ust bea.r .in mind that tlwugh •vo have manHged to squar.e accounts, the Tr,-,asurer, •,·ho is in no ·way responsible for the estimate. v;zts out to the extent of £550,000. That is a, great d-e::1l of 111onev. \Vhile rcycnuc incn:a~Bd by £273.000 mor~e than the f ,ti-rnato, cxpendi~ tire incrensed bv £276,000, tlnu showing ,a total difference~ in d;e t;~,o estimates of £550 000; Yet the Gove:t·nn1crrt 111 .nag·o·d to con1e' out 1vlth a small surplu:·,. I ,;:t,n1 inclined to think that the Government should shorten sail to a certain extent as far as expenditure

Mr. Forsyth.]

894 8uppl,IJ. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

is concerned. In 1909-10 we spent from revenue, loan, and trust accounts no less than £7,124,000; the following year, 1910-11, we spent fro~ those ~hroe sources £8,648,GOO; and thG .estunate tlus )ear frorn the san1e ~ouree~ i~ IHJ less a slun than £9,554,000. It lS perrectly trul-' that a gn~at deal of that 1noney is for services rendered and froin that point of view it is di ri'ght · but a total ex)lenditure of £9,500.000 is a little bit too nnwh; and therefor8 I think there should be some idea of slwrlening· sail to son1e ex'(;ent. The expenditure thi~ vear ~rorn the three sourcF-:, na1ncd is ±han It \vas two years ago bv 110 s than f2,.:00;000. These are facts L that ueny, oocause \V·O havo tho and l11Cnlbers can sec for spite of the fact tl.lat ~h·: con:niry i .. prospe~ous . ~nJ. Pverytlung 1s progT-:~sing, I do no, thmk It was ever intend<d, when the £~0,000.000 loan "as approved in connection \Vlth the raih~.ay policy, ihat ·1,e ~hould spend tha~ rnoney ""~~, ithin three or four vcar:'; ~nd I th~nk we had better go a little bit S~O\~f'r. Loan cxp~nditure to the extent of .:~:~2, tOO,OOO \Vas n.uthorise,-l la~t vear; hut I .-un happ~, to o that the GovCn11ncnt di-d not :-:pe~1d,. that 1anlount; spc•nt slio;htly un~er :v~).uOO,OOO, and I lw)e same 1node~ ration. '':1ll be exercisod this y0ar. I clo not :'ant _It tO be th-ought, I an1 nro·uing lp ~h1s_ \Yay,, that I arn progrc: -~ and ~e'·;elop!11-e:nt; .rbut I ;:ay -..ve going ct l.ltt.~.c: l?It too 1?. ·t. AnY-olJC at the Loan E-stimates for this" yea.r f"om P'lrre 97 to P~l.ge 104, 1Yill SC(· the hu;re .. itcnlsj'o0f f'Y.

pe_nditurr, Bspecirrll~· in oOnJHX:Li·on wit-}1 railway develop121ent,. for \vhich thoro is put down no less a sum than £2,798,000.

~lr. NlT~RPHY: For lines alr0,ldy pa3~ .j by Parliament.

Mr. FOUSYTH: In the "'out 'ern :Jivision

1th:re ar? !1? than 19 1aihYa' s;

Ill the Central diVISion 4 · 1,1 the 1'\orth';,rn d5vision, 3_; . ~oy~·,on, '1: · To'., 11s,-ille lino Northern division, 5 lint>s: and Cairns, 3-~ total of,not less than 35 railways either going En ?r hKelJ:' to 1JO OIL Those are all in the , shma!Ds for tl11s year. I do not think anv ~tatG .._ 111 At:straha IS doing so much in Iespeoc to railway development in proportion T~ :·even we,, f_tlld. population as Queensland. I ha: e no OUJ€Ction. to a good deal of !TIOllP-V bmng spent ~n railway deY8lopinent; but in connection -,:nth_some of DUr raihYa"\,._; vet be started, I thm_k we shlluld go a "little slow The estimated expenditure from lo.1-n amou11ts to trw <:nonnons suru 0 ;

£3,200,000; and we have still the Supplen1entary E~b:mat{~S to con1e -along. I kno\,~ that my fnend, the hon. membw for Hcrbe:rt, T-ants to see sugar-1nil!s started. The~ h1llb probe,bly cost £250,000. Tho scheme fo;·

a. ..... r ou_r ImprDvc~nents . ~lt ::VIack:1y, wh!f'h ill«>~ be co~lliTienced hn ,, year, ,,,ill co;;_.J, anocheJ' £3,0.000. I do not >'Gy that all th1

at money w~ll be spent m one vear but t 1at Is the cstnnatcd cost. ~ '

An HoKOURABLE :\[EMBER: It mav not be broug·ht fol'IY.ard this year. v

:\1r. FORSYTH: The :\Iackay Harbour sche~e may not be brouc;·ht forward this year, but tne sugar-mills vn]] probably be undertaken this year. Then we have other railways tnat are to be submitted, ,,-hich will mcrease the total expenditure from loan eo that t before :ve are finished ,,-ith the Suppl~mencary Estimates we may find that we are

[ J[ r . .Forsyth.

committed to an expenditure running into £4,000,000. \Vhile I am as desirous as any member of this Assembly that we should have a strong progressiye works policy, still I think we are going a little bit too fast, and I ,hould ccrtamly advise the Government to go a iittle slower than they are doing at prebent. ... ~s l have already said, 1ve did not expend the amount voted last year by £750,000. Yet, as h011. members will find by referring to. Table E, we had only £388,000 to our credit on loan account ·when the totals came out. Of course we have the proceeds of the !a .t £2,000.000 loan, less an amount of about £19,0-00, and the expenses of flotatio,n, which will come to a.nother £100,000. We shall, therefore, have about £2,200,000 of loan money to spend, because there are other 1noneys to come in, v1 hich -,vill increase the a.mount by another £200,000. I understand that the QLreensland National Bank are repaying some of the deposits lodged with them, m that altoc~·ether we shall probably have about :G2,40o;ooo to spend'. If we are going w spend the total amount o.f money that stands to our credit in connection 'vith the ioan a~_count., t.hen \Ve shall havB to go in for anotlier loan, because we shall no.t ha-.;e sufficient to carry on the "·orks now provided for in the f',stin1ates. If we can do that~and I hope the Government will try to do itsp~nd the n1on€y '17e have got and the rnoney we are likely to rDceive up to £2,400,000-thcn we shall be able to save, as far as revenue is concerned, a sum of £35,000, interest on loans floated. But if they clo not do that, '"e shall have to go in for another loan. Our raiL"ays are DOl>' doing 1nagnificent '"'<'O;rk. If there is one thine· which n1a.kt.c3 our finances solid, anJ. which has help(;:-zi us throughout the :ear, and helrec.l us to close the fi11ancial year

ith a surplus, it is the splendid revenue that we have deriyr-: d frorn our railways. If \Ve go back to the nJturns for 1902-3, the last year of the f(rcat dl'Ought, w.e shall find that our present railway revenue is no.t oniy double what it wa; then, but is £200,000 more than double the revenue receiv<c•d at that period. The railway revenue was £1,245,000 in 1902-3, and last year it wus £2,700,000. Ilon. members must, ho·wover, ren1cmber that although the raihvay revenue has gone ahead to such an ext<mt, it was not always in that condition. In former yc,:u·s our railways wore a terrible break upon us, because in son1e years vve lost as much as £600,000 on the railways, a11cl every shilling o.f that loss had to be charged to the consolidated revenue. Last y{'ar there \vas no loss; on the contrary, after paying £3 18s. 10d. per cent. on the cost of construction, the railways bene,fited the consolidated revenue to the extent of £76,000. That is a magnificent achievement for a State with a population of only 600,000, and our railways did that in spite of the fact that on six lines there was a loss of £130,000. On the Bowen Railway there was a loss of £7,441. The Treasurer will find that there is a slight mistake in his tables, the actual charge on revenue b<. ing gi \'en :.ts £381, when it should be £7,441. But this is probably only a printer's error. On the Cairns Railway the actual charge on re· venue was £91,240. This was o.ccaswrwd by tho floods which took place at the hP'~inning of the year, and by the fact that Lhe (;overnment char"ecl the co"t of repairing the damage done by tho floods to revenue instead of to loan, and that meant· an extra charge on the revenue of £50,000 as against the preyiouG year. I hope and believe that this line will show a considerable credit this year. The

[12 SEPTE211BE!l.] Suppl,y. 895

'Cooktown Railway shows a loss last year of £15,769, the Norman ton line a lof>S of :101<1,7,7,

.and the :'\Iackay Raihny a loss oi £1,123. The total loss on the six lines is, as I have said, £130,000. But the general result, taking ev€rything into co,nsi<:L::ration, is a great achieven1ent, and sho\YS that our railwaJ .::i, as a whole, are doing· good '' ork-a fact whiCh should be a strong inc:Dntive to the Goyernrnent to go on buildi11g 1nore railways, so that vve may assist the pro.duction of \vealth fron1 the land, and so rna.ke the country still n1oro prosperous. 1-;o1-v, C)lning to land scttlernent. I find that tho reYenue from our lands increased L.) £50,GOO lad. y(-_ar. and that during the last four years it has increased by £17.J,OCO. I say tha.t \Yithin u Yery short ti1ne -and I have said thi::; before iu this l:Ious )the revenue fron1 our lauds will be £l,COO,OOO, and that will be a great revenue. \1· e have heard some talking about pastoral rents be~ng too low and grazing farn1 rents t,oo high. If those gentlen1en Yvho believe that gTazing farm rents are too high will look up the returns they will find that wher.3as the average rental tor t..;razing hon1csteads was 21~,d. in 1910, it is 1;\J. this year; that last year thB rentals of agri'-'u1tura1 fanns averaged ld. per acre, while this y-:!ar the a>. erage is ~d. \Ye nntst bear in n1ind that a large uumbcr o£ grazing £arn1s have been l'Ca"'·:leJ::JI·ed this year, and that the reduction in rentals totals £8,000. We can understand from this that the rents of grazing farms have been n1o1·e than they should haye been, but it i5 evident that the contrast bot\.Yeen grazing fann rents and pastoral rent!'. is not novv so 1narked as it was. \Vith regard to the closer settlement policy of the Goyernn1ent, the last return is a Yery go.od oue, sho\ving that no less than 5,859,000 acres have been selected. One of the principal features of land settlement last year is the enormous quantity of land taking up in grazing horne·-te:tds as against the area taking up the previous year, while there was a decrease in the area taken up as grazing farms. Last year, 2,477,000 acres of land were taken up as ~razing hon1.esteads, \vhilo in tho previous year the area selected under this tenure was 1,509,000. The number of selectors under the various forms of land settlement last year was no lc,s than 3,345. With regard to the pastoral rents, I would point out that in 1901-2 they amounted to £304,000, and that they now total £329,000, and thar in spite of the fact that a considerable area of land has been taken away from the pastoralists for the purposes of closer settlement, there is a lesser area under pastoral o.ccupation now than Y:o had in 1801. \Vhile we had 0 nly £143,749 revenue from selection rents in 1901 we had £324,372 last vear, and the estimated revenue from this ~ource for this year is £352,000. In other words, in ten years the reuL from selections have increased by 2~ times; yet the pastoral rents are still as high. The Land Courts determined the rents of 2,605 grazing farms last year, comprising 16J:;Q4,504 acres, and reduced the rents from £89,681 to £80.866-a decrease of £8.815. Vlith regard to the income tax I would remind bon. members that the past~ralists last year paid £120,000 out of a total of £348,000, or about one-third of the total revenue from income tax. That represents extra rent equal to the total rent of holdinrrs and nms of £294,000, or well OYer 40 por c:nt., so that if the pastoralists are making money, as some members say, they are paying it back in inc'?me tax. I ~o not think that members opposite look at this fact

from the point of view that the amount naid 111 incorne tax is equivalent. to an increU0ed rent.

:Ur. LENJSO)l: Is it not a proper thing for lhern to pay incorue t.ax?

::\Ir. FORSYTH: Most decidedly. I think an incorne tax is the fairest tax vve can unpose, because under it a n1an sin1ply pays on ·vvhat he earns, and if he doe"' not earn any money he has not to pay any tax.. But what I say ;s that tho pastoral!sts are the people who arc largely helpillg tho revz_nue tll~'ough the income tax. \\ , expc:t to get a httle more re·n:-nue ir'on1 the Co1nn1ollvvealth Las year. rrhis vear it is estitnated at £754,000, or an incrE'ausJ ol £Cu,OOO. Th~ population of Que •n.sland has been incr-·asing clm.>ing th~ last threo c•nr~ l1P about 20,000 a year. .L

beho.-e that this .~·ear tho increase will ~e 25,000, ar::.J t.h1s lnll rn2an an 1ncrcase 111 tno rt..·v~·nue receiYed frorn the Conlnlonwc.-di b.. ·\Yith this increase in popuLtion, 1,\-c .<:all in eight z:urs' tin1e get a.il incrc-a;;:e of sonl~thing £250,COO hom tha CommonwealtH Go\ ·-'rlllncnt·, ca]c, Jntin~_, the revenue on tho basi..:. of £1 5s. I,2l' ht:Hl, and our rov0nue will then be aln1c t as larg.a as it was bef~r.P \Ye entcrc:d into the present arra:nge:mynt w1th the Federal Gcn-,~l'DllH?nt. I thcreioro say

that it is a y·,"ry good thing to p p.ru.] a1·gue-that the InorP pDople 1ve

r::"'t to Qnccn .land th3 betl,or it \vill be for our fu.:anccs. PDpuloticn is ·what v e ,~,·a.nt. As a nHl.tter of fnci, there 1vas no g·~Dl'ine do~t"uc' ive principh~ in tho arguments of hon. members opposite. One-half s.ay we spend too lllUch n1oney on in1m1grah<?rL _I SflY, as regards the 1none.Y spent on Ill1D1I

gration. thf're never \Va3 rnoney better spent, if we want the fin an< os of the country to ach·ance,.

::\Jr. Lmowx: \ra it legally pont? That is the point

~\lr. FORSYTJ-T: It docs iiot n1atter one jot.

::\Ir. LE"'\liOX: It matters a great deal.

:\I;·. FORSYTH: There ncYI'r yet has been a Treasurer liviu -~ in Ou-et. Jl':.1aDd 1.:rho has bren able to gauge m·en- to £10,000, £20,000, or £30.000 as to what his revenue or expenditure was going to be. \\'e cannot do it, and we havG this vear revenue coming in which will cover all 'this 'xtra expenditure. I say thG monev was well snent, and the Government hm:8 told vou only £30,000 can come against r _cll:enuB iri connection with the immi~mtiou vote thi; vear. Thov have £54,000 lying to the cred{t of trust , account, being money paid in by nominees, and that they hope' to get--as they no doubt Will getanother ±-28,000 this year the same as .,they got last vear so tJ1at they will have aV<~I,able tunds up to '£100,000 foi:- immigration. I advise the TreasurGr to clo this, if the finances will stand it: He should charge every single shilling of expenditure in connection with inunigration to this present year, and, put another £28,000 or £60,0c0 to the credit of that fund f6r tho k"n yeai\o that may come, so that if they -,.i·h to still go on with immigration, they will have the money there. It may not be no,3iblG. If they cannot afford it this year, "it means they will have a lean year. Population is what we wan.t .. There is a O'teat pressure to,vards Australia 1n connecti~n with work. Of factory hands we cannot o·et half enough. In all sorts of trades men ar~ wanted. Is it. not infinitely bett<:r that we should introduce people to thts conntrv for the purpose of utilising the wealth

. Mr. Forsyth.]

blio Supplp. [ASSEMBLY.= Suppi,y.

prDduc .. ion-~etting the 1;ealth fro1n the soil, aud p.~_·oducing the rnanufactured article, rather than leuv8 it to :::orne other State? As a 1natter of fact~ h. t year our factoriet, tur.1 r::d o:..tt goo~h to tho value of no lc '0 than £12,S23,CUJ, and for the whole of Australia £107,000,000. We want that.. Wo want to on1ploy the n1en. All factoriEs and all trades are sirnply working at high pressure, and the more people we can get here to p!·oduce that wealth tho better. It is infinitely better that w~ shonlcl get it here than t,hat it should go t.o Sydney or 1\:!elbourne. rrho expenditure this yt=>ar is creeping up. The Governrnent ],aye to spend this year £453,000 rnore th :n \Yas 2iY''nt last year, and they estimat" an increased revenue of about the san1e a.n:wunt -abod £:[53,000; therefore they hope their incre,::.:~J?d revenue of about the same etrnount expenditure. It is p-ood bus-ineQ.-; for ally Governnlf'nt or any Treasurer not to take out of the pockets of the people moro than they can possibly help. It 's a good idea. At the sam,, time, I think, in connection with our loan exp3lH1iture, that we might ,curtail it a: little. \~V c haYe down a. sinking fund fo!' loans, which is a very good id-ea. "Various turns, tctallin~ £15,000. are debited against reyonue in connccfon with the sinking fund. \~\~-.. e cannot touch that. VVe have six months' interest on a fresh £2,000.000 loan, which represents about £3"5,0GO. If we do not float that loan befmc the end of June, we shall save that. £35,000. vV e then have the A ("entGe-leral's rent, £6.000. Then we have an extra £50.000 for hospitals. I venture to think n1y-.:•lf that '''e ar~.• r-pending too much money in connection with our hospitals. I do not think the country hospitals want all this nJoney. I do not. know that any of our hosnitnls nre in a very bad way except the Brisbane Hc,pital, and I Leliove it would have hcen very muC'h better to have given i:he Br'chane Hc·ooital an extra amount as a base hoc,pital-'·ay, · £10,000-and if that were done we v·ould ·dve a cons'derable portion of this extra £50,000.

Mr. LENNON: You want to nationalise the Brisbane IIospital only?

:Yh: FORSYTH: Not nationalise it, but give it a little more because we have people coming from all parts of Queensland to the Bri.•bane Hospital, and if that were done then we -~yould save a consid£'rable sun1 in connection with that matter. Then we have £15,000 down in connection with prickly pear. I do not know exactly how the Governnwnt intend to spend that amount. My impression about that sum is that it is not likely to be spent. vVe also intend to spend an extra £50,000 on buildings. I think we ought to go slow there and spend a little lc,,,, and in that case we might save a considerable sum. Then there is £10,000 for a nc·w stea1ner for ~1orcton Bay, and new Pile Light, £3.000; Printing Office, £24,000. All these arc large amounts. Education, £50,000. I do not gmdge that, and I do not think anyon'-~ grud_g-cs any amount set do,vn for education. Then we have railways, £230,000; making a total of these things which I haYc mentioned, of abont £488,000. As I ha;-c explained, we only propose to spend £30,000 this vear out of revenue on immi(<ration as against £120,000 last year. My impression is that the pruning-hook could be cxerci~ed in regard to a considerable nun1ber of items that I haYe referred to, and I think m doing so we will place our finances in a still better position. There is also an

[.ilf r'o F' orsyth.

itmn in }oa,n funds of £10,000 for deep sinking. I do not knovv that. that a1nount \vill bo spent. Then we have £25,COO last year fOl' additional school::, and this year £35,000. I do !~'i)t t.hink they \Yill spend an that ari1ount. Them we ha~·e general repairs to public buildings £20,000 this year, as agamst. £12,000 last year. Perhaps that money may not be all "~anted, and if the Government Ouly Jnanago to squeeze things do\V11, -we shall have a ycrv 1nuch bett<.'r chance of roming out c,n th~ right side of the ledger at tl1e end of the pref:ent financial year.

lvlr. O'Sc-LLIVA:N: An increased population n~cans incn- a sed expenditure.

Mr. FORSYTH: One of the great things in conr_o_cction \Yith thP Financial Stutcn-::.ent is tho fact that the loans adYanccd in Au,tralia-or in Queensland, if you like-show e1 rern;!rkablc difference to \Yhut they \\"ere· ten years ago. 1\s n·t;ards the lc ~u1 h;ud,, I quite approYC of the remarks 1nac.e bS f:Oll10 hon. lrter:nbers opposito-th ;;t \YC should try and get loan nlOYlCY in Au~tralia. Perhaps our friends on the otlv:' r side do not kno\v that at the prc~ent tilne no less than 25 per cont. of tho total loans of the YaTious States in the Commonwealth have been floctted in Australia. In 19CfJ 1\'0 only had 14 per c._~nt., and ]v st 71-E J..-r \YC had 25 per. ccnt.-about £6.3.000,000 out of the total loans haYe been. floated in Australia. I hopo that percE:utage, so far as Australia is concerned, will yery n1aterial1y incrcnse.

1Ir. O'SuLLIVAK: Is that GoYern:nent loans?

;}lr. FORSYTH: Yes; ail Go,-ernment. lotms. Out of £260,000,0~0 of a public debt, £63,000,000 ha.Yc b._;Gll floated in ... 4..ustralia. Th,>t is Yery satisfactory. It sho'xs \Ye ar& beginning to stand on our own feet. It shows that we do not require to go to the old country for so much monee·, and vchen I tell the Committee that there is in Australia now-at the end of June this yearno less than £200,000,000 of money lying· at fixed deposit, current account, and in thesaYings bankP, surely there is son1e Inargin for the various States to get loans for the purpose of carrying on development work l We have at fixed deposit £79,000,000; we haYe at current account, for which the people who own the money do not receive a single shilling as interest, no less a sum than £62,000,000. It is scarcely credible that there are such huge sums of money lying

.in the banks of Australia for which the people who own it do not _get any interest. We have nearly £60,000,000 in the savings banks. All these things show how things are booming. I want now to come to some of the criticisms passed by some hon. members opposite. There are some people, like Pope-

\Vho ne'er advance a judgment of theirown,

But catch the spreading notion of the town.''

And the judgments we have had from the other side have been particularly weak. There has been no genuine criticisrn. I m 0-s<>lf have been criticising the Government more freelv than anvone on the other side. (Oppositio~ laughter:) I am not doing that in a carping spirit at all, but be<:'ause I think it is the right thing to do. The deputy leader of the Opposition thought that it was better to get money in Australia so far as the actual cost is concerned. I want to

Supply. [12 SEPTEMBER.] Supply. 897

give my friends an idea what a loan means. If you float a loan at 3i per cent., as we floated the £2,000,000 loan at 3:i per cent. in London. On that £2,000,000 loan fOl' forty years "\Ve have to pay in intore~,t alone £2,800,000, and at the end of the forty years we have still to pay the £2,000,000 we obtained.

'Mr. LENNON: V\'ould it not be better to have that circulating in Australia?

Mr. FORSYTH: If \Ye got tho loan from tho Federal Government at 3~ per cont., we "ould have to pay to tho Federal Government in forty yee1rs £3,000,000 in interest, or £200,000 more, but as we lost £100,000 in the flotation, discounts, and other expenses, y, e h·,-, vc to takG that off, and then you see the 3~ per cent. really Incand a net profit to the Government of £100,000.

i\Ir. FERRTCKS: But the difference would cotne back to us in Queensland.

~\!lr. FORSYTH: No. It might como back to Australia. Mv friend, the hon. member for Leichhardt, n;ade a ycry strong com1nent in connection > ith tho finance' in the years 1900, 1901, and 1902, and talked ·about eYerything going \Vrong, and of the insolvent state of tho fiuances of Queensland. I \Vant now for a n1on1ent to shov.r ho-vv the position at that time was brought about. In the yeac 1901, the first yc u with a big deficit, \Ve lost on our raihvays-\vhich \vas chargeable to revenue, bear in raind~no less a sum than £630,000. If >Yo had this year a loss of £600,000 on our railways, where would tho present Go,·crnmcnt haYe been?

:Mr. LEC<TKON: Up a tree.

Mr. FORSYTH: There would havG been a deficit. \\'e had not one-half th·e rcvenuG from our railwavs at that time that we ha,-o now, and yet \~e lost £600,000 on our railways. And t}H:l following year ;; e lost £513,000, and tho last year the Philp Government were in office they lo t £477,000 on ihe railways. I ask my friend, the hon. member for Lcichhardt, if he was Treasurer, how he would have managed to square accounts with a deficit on the rai:ways f•ach year of about £600,000?

JHr. HARDACRE: I would not haYe gone on like the:- did with a happy heart that it was all right.

Mr. FORSYTH: Those arc absolute facts, which I challenge the hon. member to contradi( t., and I say no man, not the greatest expert in frnance in Austl~alia, could have sa vod a deficit.

Mr. HARDACRE: He had plenty of warning.

Mr. FORSYTH: That may be, but the year before, in spite of the fact that there IY,'\S a very hfavy loss also in connection \vith the railwa:y;;,, they sho\\ eel a surplus ?f £47,000. I am only trying to show that It is n1l very well for ITICinbers to criticir:r:, but if they placed thcmselv<es in the 10:·ition of the hon. member for Townsvilfe at that time they would have a little more sympathy for that hon. member. EYcrything Yv::ts falling to picc0s. There was not a business in Queensland that \\as not going down. Tho revenue was falling, everything was falling, "nd the purchasing power of the people was falling. How could the,· mako things improve? "

J\fr. HARDACRE: We would have found a \vay to do it.

1911-3 K

Mr. FORSYTH: What happened the first year that the l'vio.rga.n-Kidston Government carne jnto power? They received an increase of £15.0CO from stamp duty, an increase of £50,000 from railways, and £26,000 extra from miscdlaneous receipts. The Morgan Government did not pay the £30,000 to the local authorities, which had bL·en paid by the Philp GoYernment the year before, hard up and all as they were. In the last year of the Philp GoYern.ment th'~Y l'educt:d expenditure in that une year by £130,000, and yet they had a hugo deficit. You cannot make a railway pay unles· you ha\'e got the freight to go over it, and the frci;,·ht did not exist at that time.

:?\lr. I-iARDACRE: There wetc other sourc.es for getting revenue.

:\h. FORSYTH: No·,-_., our friends oppo.site haye bf 9n asking \vhy \~·e do not natiollaliSc our hospital·-· It is a very good thing to nationalise thern if it can be done. Yet mem"' ber.., now sitting opposite who are asking for the nationalisa.tion of the hospitals v,rere sirtin,~· oehind a C__;oyernmcnt in 1904, and that Go,-ennnent in that year actually reduced the subsidy to tho hospitals from £1 lOs. to the £1 to £1 3s. to. the £1. Tlwre was no mention of nati(' wlisin; the hospitals at that tin10. Then, in contwction with tho civil servants, what ·,·_as don" bv the Government which a~ supported by· the hon. members no \' sitting opposit~? During tho drought years \VC reduced the salaries o£ the civil servants by 10 per cent., and we \'\ranted to pay it back a-, so.on as possible. One-half of the amount was paid back, and we wanted to pay up the balance. Tho House demanded that any surplus that. there vvas should go to make up the £36,000 the civil servants were short. Yet that Govern1nent, which was suppmt :d by the Labour party, in order that there should not be a surplus, charged a lot of items to revenue that had always previously bc·cn charged to. loan fund, and in that wa.,v they duped the civil servants from setting their £1 in th·, £1. The result was that the civil servants only g·ot Ss. in the £1, b€cause there was not sufficient surplus to give them any morP, and the Government that did that were backed up by the Labour part.,-.

J\Ir. LESINA: J'\o; not generally. 1\Ir. J\lcRPHY: Yes. The only man who

Yoted against the spe<:ial retrenchment was Miele Woods.

J\Ir. FORSYTH: Now, I have so.methin:i to about a. statemHlt m<:de bv tho hon. memfor Carpentaria, and I all sorry iha.t he

is not here just nol.v. Spc ,king on the Financial Statement last Y<'lr the hon. member rnado the folloYling- stat :ment, which v ill be found on p.·.ge 800 of ]a.st year's Hansard:

"\' ..... estern .\.ustrulia lHLr; a g~. atcr indebtedper l::.ead-£1 15 1. 3d. per head--th~ n vve in Qli"nnsland, ~tnd thw.~ arc getting their

t a lo"~.~·er rat·· of inter~ --L tl<U1 v·:e are \\"1~ ~ 2~-=. 9d. r head n1ore intErest

pay \Vt:· tel·n Austc:Jia. Is that to 1Je proud of? Is tL.-.t h 1·od busi-

-., _;_ wnagenl·::nt? If tllat is what the prC'sent erllllH'nt call gopd business mana~~einent, I

l'E ly :;_,_ope the do.y is not far distant when son1ebody el v·ill occupy P"~P Treasury benches -;., ho 'lY~ll tl1o.se conditions."

In n1n.king a staten:,~nt of thP h:ind the han. n1en1ber as talking· the most utter rub}ish that anyone could talk. If the hon. m~·mher had sL,id tha.t the a·rerag12 amount \vas less,. then I could haY€ understood hin1 1na~.in'::· the statement. If he had said "the avera~,;e," it would havP be0n all right, as the interest is lower in \Vestern Australia than in any other

l.fr. Forsyt};.]

893 Suppl;lj. [ASSEMBLY.] Suppl;IJ.

State in Australia. But can anyone tell me that \Vestern Australia can go on the money market and borrow money on as favourable terms as Queensland, New South \Vales, or Victoria? How can the hon. gentleman make such a statement? If you get the archangel down he cannot alter facts, and what are the facts? It is only about twe,1ty years ago that V'lestern Australia vvas a Crown colony, and since then the Government there has gone in for spending money, and they only got a few 4 per cent. loans under £5,000,000. Queensland, on the other hand, has been on the money market since 1872, and has £22,000,000 of 4 per cent. loans running. Cannot you .,ee that having so much 4 per cent. money in· Queensland, as against the few loans in \Vestern Auskalia, the ayerage interest must be less?

Mr. LENNON: Are yon are,uing th.At the loans falling due in 1915 could haye been bo.rrm\ eel at leso, than 4 per cent.?

Mr. FORSYTH: No. I am r;ot arguing that at all. I am simply reierring to the statement made by the hon. member for Carpentaria, which I characb~liso as absurd. Last year 3~ per C€11t. loans -.,ere floated in London by Loth Queensland and \V es ~ern Australia, and the result was that Queensland obtained £94 19s. 6d. a9 against £92 19s. 9d. received by \Vestern Austra.!ia. In the year before, for 3~ per cent. loans Queensland o btained £94 9s. Sd. as against £93 ls. 5d. r-eceived by Western Australia. The year befo.re that Que·ensland obtained £96 4s. 6d. as against £93 18s. 2d. received by Western Australia. Before that a.gain Queensland received £99 7s. 8d. as against £93 5s. 9d. received by Western Australia.

l'.lr. LESINA: And Queensland receiYed a better price.

i\ir. FORSYTH: Yes; Queensland got a better price-an infinitely better price. In the early days we borrowed much more 4 per cent. money than they did, and that is the explanation of it, and bcrause of that he states that the interest is lower in the case of IV PStNll' Au· tralia than in Queensland. As a matter of fact, we have always been in the unenviabiA position of having the biggest debt per head of any country; but the debt per head in Queensland in 1910 was £76 lls. 4d., aiid the interest payable amo.unted to £2 16s. 6d. per head, while for the same year in Western Australia the debt per head was £84 6s., and the interest £2 18s. 1d. As soon as we get rid of our big loans, v·e shall find that tho rate of interest on the average is less than that of \Vestern Australia. The hon. member for Carpentaria made another statement which I wish to refer to. He made a statement about the Government getting all the accounts in before the end of the year and paying them off instead of placing the mon0y to revenue account. I an1 sorry that the hon. member is not here, but I notice on page 835 of this year's H ansarrl he says-

" I go so far as to say that is not ~;ood bookkeeping, nor is it hontst bookkeeping.

" The TREASURER : It is.

" lVIr. NEVITT : I beg to differ vdth the Trt'Etsurer, and I will give my reasons.

" The TREASURER: The balance-sheet includes the amounts owing up to the end of June.

"Mr. NEVITT: These balance-sheets up till last year were issued on a certain basis. All the accounts rendered before the 30th of June were passed, but the Governments of the past

[Mr. Forsyth

did not send a beilman up I-<orth and all over thB country to get in accounts before the end of June so that they could be paid."

The Treasurer tried to keep him on. the right track, but he would not be kept nght, and went on--

" I know that perfectly \Yell. Hut the hon. gentlen1an in his own busin<::ss doeR no~ send round to get in all the acc,Junts before tn.e eH.d of the YE':tr, and perhars he \Yould not m1nd ~~ they did not carne in for three 1nonths lange!·.

Then the Treasurer tried to keep him on the track again Ly saying-

" The TRBASURER: \Vhat would you say. if you belonged to a .._ Jll1P3l1Y and theY. put a,~.Ide a nu1ubcr of accounts that -,vere ow1ng at the end of the year'? "

And to that t.he hon. 1nmnbr::T for Carpentaria ans\vcred-

" It is all yery \y,~ll for thto Trea,:;urer to put it that ay. All ace JU:nh rendered tO' d_-,,te :3hould be paid, but ther~ y -1 s n? 11< ;;!d ,to sen_: the bellman. throughout the lell£th and oreadtn of Queensland to get in all accounts before the end of the year.''

In the beginning of his remarks the hon. n1en1bor for Carpentaria said that it waa not honest bookkeeping, and he .,,-inds up by saying-

.. I do not go so far as to say that it is not good finance."

(Governn1ent laughter.) Mr. 11ULLAN: Finish the sentence. You

did not finish his sentence.

Mr. FOHSYTH; If any busine's man carried out the principle o"dvocated by the hon. member for Carpentaria, he would brmg m a balance-sheet that was not only fraudulent, not only dishonest, but in connection with that, to do a thing like that he would hold himself up to the greatest ridicule by business 1nen. Can -vou i1nagine any 1nan who knew that he owed money that had not been paid and no account was sent incan you itnagine any n1n;n c~eliberately .keep; in"' that amount out of h1s balance-sheet. The man who did that would be issuing a fraudulent balance·sheot. Why, the hon. member for Carpentaria does not understand oven tho A B C of finance, or he would not have made use of such words. If the hon. gentleman, in his quieter 111oments, had or,Jv considered the question, he must have kn~wn that to hold back items that were owing and not include them would ~e to issue a false balance-sheet, and the man who did such a thing as that wouid be fit for \Voogaroo. (Laughter.)

lYlr. MULLAN: There have been men on the Treasury bench who ought to have been there long ago. (Laughter.)

Mr. FORSYTH : That may be. Last year theY presented a proper balance-sheet by givrng these items.

Mr. lYlULLAN: Last year was the exception.

Mr. FORSYTH: They did the same this year. It was the correct thing to do.

Mr. J. M. HuNTER: Why didn't you tell tho former Treasurer that?

Mr. FORSYTH : If a man did not include all accounts that were owing, he would be issuing a false balance-sheet. (Hear, hear !) So much for the finance of the hon. member for Carpentaria.

Mr. LENNON: He meant that they must be shown as an outstanding account and not as a paid account.

Suppf.v. [H SEPTEMBER.] Suppl!J. 899

Mr. FORSYTH: He did not say so. Ho mentioned about the Government sending up a l>ellman. Perhaps there wore some accounts paid in the North that did not come to Brisbane till after the end of Juno. Those amounts had to be shown because the Government had to show every shilling they OYed. l\Iy friends opposite are talking about tho Government going slow. I quite agree "ith them that the Government should go slow. But in 1902 they simply execrated the Government for spending money, and in 1910 they say it is all right. Tho hon. member for Woothakata said that the Government in 1902 spent everything until the 1noney caillO to an end, but as a, 1nattor of fact the Philp Govern~ mont left as a legacy to tho I\lorgan Governlnent the SUIT! of c.£1,267,000 of loan mane::.

Mr. MuRPHY: That is so. Mr. FORSYTH: That enabled them to

carrv on the \vork that the·r did \vithout borrowing. The pclic: of t!1e Government should be to spend tho 1noney in dull tirnes so as to keep the people hero.

OPPOSITION ME1\IBERS: II ear, hoar ! Mr. FORSYTH: The Labom party did not

alwas; say that. Mr. I-IARD.\CRE: Yes, we did. I always

said it.

Mr. FORSYTH: The hon. memi)(Jr for Gregory said that ·when the lines \\·ere p,tSSc·d the Cloncurry mineral field would lEnd to prosperity, but he said that so far as t!1-o companies were concerned thoy might JllSc as .. h:ell not ..:~pond a sixpence, as the n1in .. :J

were tied up and it led to stagnation in the district and they should be compelled t 1

work it. I was a director of that company, and I knew that the mines have never paid. They expended all their capital and is"ued debentures, and there was money still owing. If anyone wants to work that property he can get it on easy terms. It is no use working it if you caimot make it pay.. People worJc a mining property to tnake tnoney; but th1s co1npany lost enorrnonD sums. And tb~n the Federal Governr>Jont put a land tax on. I think the~' could not

g-et £100 an acre for what cost [4.30 p.m.] them £1,000 an acre. I hold allot-

ment' at C!oncurry within a stone's throw of the centre of the town which I would soil for £10 each, though they cost me more than that twenty years ago.

JYl;·. MuRPHY: The hon. member for Burke says the machinery is obsolete there.

Mr. FORSYTH: In spite of the fact that the revenue from goldmining has decre'csed, the re,-enuo fron1 1nining as a whole 1s 11arth~ satisfactory. We got £3,710,000 hom c;;r mining fields, 1vhich is £53,000 n1ore than we rccc·i ved the year before. All this is sa tis. factory: but if the' Government want the copper-fields. in the Cloncurry district to go ahead, i>hey should extend the railways to places where there is plenty of good copper. There are ca~•es where huge sums have been spent and are being spent: but those companies will have to close down if they cannot get railway communication, because they cannot afford the cost of carriage. Anyone looking through the Estimates must see that our railways are paying remarkably well. For the year 1910-11 the railways in the Southern division earned £4 14s. per cent. : the Central line earned £4 lOs. Sd. per cent. ; and the Townsville Railway £5 4s. 3d. per

cent. The Cloncurry Railway has a benefit~d area, and I would like the Government, m cases where the whole of a railway line pays £5 per cent., though thoro may be a loss on tho portion going through a benefited area connected with that line, not to charge the de· f1ciency against the population in that b':'nefited area. If we can only make the hnes pay interest and redemption, without charg· ing tho people in the benefited areas with any loss accruing in those areas, I think it v;ill be good business. I have to thank the Committee for listening to me so patiently. I could probably have given the Committee 1nore infonnation if there had been tin1e for rue to do so, because I have given a great deal of time to the study of the quc~,tion. Anyone \Vho 1vants to undcrrtand the condition of a country cannot do it unless he knows exactl :7 ho\v the fina;:1ces are ; and, if a country is \vrong iin:~ncially, it is generally

rong <-JtogeLher. VYhilo our revenue is inCl'oasing by leaps a,nd boands, ·while n1anu~ factures and businessc'3 an~ doing ·vrcll-and v, e should be proud of the fact-at the same time let n1e say to the G overnrilent that the Prmnier \Vas sorr1ewhat \vrong ivhcn ho said the sky was perfectly clear. 'l'he,·e is a cloud in the vYost, and the hon. member for Mitchell was quite right in what he said. That part of Queensland to the south of the Central line and west from Charlcville is in a bad way. There has been no rain for six 1nonths in son1c places, and none for nine n1onths in others, fnd thoy are losing stock now. I can assure the GoYernment that the cloud rising in the VV est is bigger "than a man's hand"; and that is one reason why they should stay their hand and not spend so much from loan fund, but endeavour to conserve the finances in such a ·way that vvhen bad times como they will have something up t.hoir sleeve to help thing" along. Wo all hope the good times will last, but we know that we always vcant a little reserve, and by beeping a hand on the safety-valve of finance v;e may come out all right. I hope the year ·will be a very prosperous one, and that the J~stimates mav turn out to be all that the Treasurer ant.icipates. Let us hope that the rain from heaven '.l·ill soon fall on the just and on tho unjust, because that will be the best blessing we can poeosibl:: have.

HoNOURABLE l\1E1\IBERS: Hear, hear!

Mr. LESINA (Clermont): I do not propose to occupy much time in this debate; but it is just as well to say a few words now the discussion has been general and the Government appear very anxious to postpone its termination until the elections are over. I understand thev are anxious as to the fate of certain measures before this and the other Chamber. At present a considerable number of eiectors are anxious to ascertain how members stand with respect to that legislation; and perhaps it is just as well that this discussion should continue. From that elevated motive I propose to offer a few casual observations on the Financial Statement. The hon. member who just resumed his seat pointed out that our national debt is growing; and he might have added that the national debts of all the Australian States are growing, and growing very rapidly. I do not know that it is a ba,d thing that they should be growing; but I have here some figures which I would like to get into H ansarii; and I would like to point out that from 1900 to 1910 the debts

Mr. Lesina.1

900 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

of the Australian States increased by £63,000,000, an average of £6,300,000 a year .. Nearly all political parties recognise that borrowmg 1s a neceseity, whether loans are obtained from abroad or locally-the only questwn bcmg whJCh 1s tho more profitable.

Mr. LEXKON: Don't overlook tho important consideration of intere.,t circulating in Australia when money is borrowed locally.

Mr. LESIJ\'"~: There may be some adYan. tage in that .. Tho Financial ~Yezc.c, London, vd11ch son1et1n1es devotes a certain amount of criticis:a to .._.\ustralian finance, points out that it is in contemplation b,- tho Australian States to borrow_ something like £27,000,000; so that, accorclmg to the forecast of tho Financial X e 1c <, London is about to be inundated with loans. In one paper it was pointed out that debentures formed the only connection bct,Yccn ... \us~-ralia and London. I think the critic of the Financial Thnes was son1ewhat astray in his staternent. It is certain that our debts are grO\\·ing enormously. In 1900 they totalled £195,000,000, of which £170,000,000 -..as raised in London and only about £25,000,000 locally. The han: member for Moreton pointed out that we borrowed locally £16,000,000 to date, but I am speaking of the years up to 1900. In the folloc,·ing :roars up to the present time the pDsition altered. \Vhi!e Australia borrow•ed £63,000,000 during those ten years only £22,000,000 camo from London,' and £41,000,000 was raiwd locally. So tho tendency now is to raise rnost ·of our capital locally; the interest is paid locally; and the debt Yvill be a local institution.

lvir. CORSER: There is plenty of security.

::\Ir. LESINA: I 1nig-ht point out that, as '"~as said by ono of the Scottish );gricultural Commissioners, .Australia is on the top of a big bom11 that is likely to last for sorne tin1e; and, \Yhilst our industries arc boon1ing, it is obYious that deYelopn1ent '''ork n1ust be carried out in different di>·ections, for which capital \Yill be needed, and increased bor~ rowing )JO\Ycrs yyjlJ be obtained by the GoYernnwnts of the different States. I understand that our GoYernrnent will in due course ask for extended borrowing powers in connection \Yith deYelopment \York; but in Yicw of tho fact that drought conditions prevail in the south-\Yestern part of tho State, as pointed out b,- the hon. member for :Moreton, it ,,,a,• be ach-isable for the GoYernrnent to dnnv in its horns and not go in for reckkcs expm.diture. At pr<-'ent I do not bel io';c thN·o is reckless expenditure going on; if it were so, I ar11 sure n1cn1bers \YOtdd ha \ c observed it and protc;)ted against it: _t.t the -.an1o tin1o, 1.\ hat the hon. n1o1nbcr fm~ ~~~orcton said should 1':' '"':cigh0d carefull~.~ by the GoYeLll1lC::1t, and particularly by th Treasurer, in Yic\v of the 0.rought condition' referred to by that hon. lnember and by the hon. HF'Inb~r for Gregory and tho hon. m0mbn- fo1· :YfitchelL I think we 1nay point this out without being acc~l· •d of calan1ity-ho\rling or crying ">/inking fish." ThE::~ hoD. n1cn1bor for JYlorcton "·arned the Gm-ernncnt in 1902-3 that thcv should put on the b:.:al:;:o and reduce exp~nditure.

]',lr. MANN: He tried to, but he couldn't.

Mr. LESINA: The pac,, had got so gr2at that it could not be' stopped '·hen it wac, desired, and eventually the country got into

[.I!{ r. Lt:sina.

difficulties, But there is no necessity to re,urroct the facts which led to those difficultiee; all hon. members arc familiar \Yith. them, and are glad those diHiculties are no longer pre~ent in our rnaterial deYeloptnent. The Financial Statement shows that (2t~eens-1and is pro pering in alrnost, every concciYabledirection. This is r('assuring, not only to tha people of the State, but also to the people outside who contemplate coming here. Thereare some oonditions which could be better; and I suppose they will be bettered in time by spe"ial le"islation. As I have already said, ,,, e arc a·t the present time face to face with two or threA by-elections. 'rhe Pr.-,n1ier is practically tho mouthpiece of hon. members. sit( ng on that. side of the Chamber, and I propo~-o- to make B'Onlo quotations fron1 a spe ::ch he cL•livercd a few days ago at Rosewood, and from a speec·h dcliYered by the hon. g~n.tle111an to tho electors at Indooroop'lly 'in 1904. ::\Iernbers will obscne ile<e stran Q'e in-:'0nsi:stencies between the t'vo utteranc,'s,,of tho hon. g·cntlem:m at those dilL rent period'. As illustrating tho attitude of the Premi?r ant1 his party towards- the Opposiiior and its policy, the following- sentin1ent"· nttPrf'd at puhJic n1ef'tings during the past fc:\V days n1ay be not Pel:-

"Aft, r ·-peaking of the adyantc- ges of the prc:::ent vigorous lnu11igraticn pollcy, l\{r. D.-:1-hain added: "\YhRt c '~rt of JT .. ,~n \Vf'ro

mtan Jriali ts :1bout Brishane wh0 \YR.nted build a r·tone wall around Au ~tralia and let no one in to join in our prosperity? "

Again, ho i;=; reportFd to have said-" They ~~1ould take car"' not to let f~lip in a

man belonging to the party which would ha7e recently cru~hed the sugar-g1o· .. erc-; a11cl eyt_ry otlF~r cb -.. There were working \Vorker ~ aud loafing \Vorkerf', and the latter lLld c;ntrol.''

K ote the two serious allegations contained in the fore~ oing scnt-ance---that the Labour party wa.nt'3 to crush the sugar-g~·o,vers, ~tc., ancl that the I.1ahour moven1ent IS controllecl by "loafer"i ~' and ;: sc:.lb":J,'' m:; he called thet.D ei-.~whc•rc. Tho·e are Y·erv f:-· rions :stat("mcnt~ to be made bv the Pn:>.n1i,:r in a politic..t' speech in ck \ ~~fop1nent of the policy of thtGovel·nment, and 1vith the view of influencin?· the electors of that constituPncv. Are those statements true? ~1\_s a men1ber¥ of the Opposition and as a n1c1nber who is opposed to the p~licy of the Government on imn.1ig;ration and on son1c other rnatters, I say 1t. rs not true that mo1nbcrs of this party want to crush the suga.r-gro .... ver:,, or that. the Labour rnov,> rnent. is co1~lfrolkd bv "loafers'·' and " scabs"; and I am ~urc that"evcrv n1ember sittirg on this side of the I--!ouse "':ill den·, those statement· \gaiD, tho hon. gtnfJen1an is reporh'd to have said-

p[l_rty Labour p~rt7 tnight J:o ailed the

i' ,J}ation nnd :ot?.gnat-ion.''

y-et it WLJ the Labour r tYtu "Which fll ~t helped J\Ir. Denha.m to put hi~ foot upon the first rune;· of the 11Jinistcrial ladder. One would ha.v~ thought that the Premier, with .,vhat =\fa:rk Twain crrlls "the di(:·;rotion horn of parl~mnl:'ll, 1ry expc·rien('"," v-.:..-ou1c1 have a\~oidcd tbis S!1bjcct. In 1904 :.Tr. DPnham \>c'aS a candidat~ for Oxloy in ilH' I{icl--i:onLa1:: Jur inte~·e,"t. IIe haci so1nething to say i;~ cc nn,,cf:on with the L,~ 1,Jonr nart-..- on that cc(~ .. L1on .. \Vhat dld he sav? ~\Yell, hR js r0port0d in the (!r uricr, o{ Thur·-.day, 28th Julv, 1~'04. a~ sayirg to a n1ecting of electorsLt Inclooroopil~y-

" It wt:s n ptatedly Raid that the Administrations (the l\forgan-Kidston L~'bour Adminis-

Supply. [12 SEPTEMBEH.] Supply. 901

tration) was under the control of the Labour party. \Veil, if it was, it was a high cmnpliUlent to the Labour party, and a high tribute to them, because the work of the Administration had been highly beneficial. (Applause.) . . . . . It was equally untrue that the Labour party had sought to dominate the Administration. (Applause.) He could only speak of rnen as he found thern, and he was prepared to flay there or anywhere that, as a body of men, the Parliamentary Labour party had acted in the most straightforward and considerate nranner ; they had been loyal to their obligations and faithful to their trust. (Applause.) . . . . The present Administration did not -,vorry itself about LabourSocialisnr or any other " ism." . . . He would say 'again that they (the Labour party) had acted with loyalty ; they had not tried to bring any prec:sure upon him, and he thought the sanre could be said of his collf'agues. They had not tried to bring any pressure either in adrninistration or legislation. Only once had they come to him. It was in connection with a Bill before the House, and they sought to haYe the Bill modified; but he told them he had gone as far as he could, and they said: "\¥e are satisfied to leave it to you."

The hon. member who has just resumed his oeat stated that we brought pressure to boar on the Government to induce thorn to pas,, ·certain lcgic.lation, but in tho quotation that I have read we sea that the Premier says we brought no pressure to bear on him.

The SECRETARY FOR PuBLIC INSTRlJCTION : But didn't he say that you tried to bring pressure to bear on him?

Mr. LESINA: He said we tried in the case of one Bill, but that he replied that he had gone as far as he could, and that we were ,,atisfied to leave it to him to act according to his own sweet will. Later on in his speech the Premier said-

" He asked what forre there was in this parrot-cry " Labour-Socialism? " . . . In 1896, 1899, and 1902 there was the same old cry of Socialism, or "Labour-Socialisn1" as it was now called. He asked them, however, if the change brought about last September had not been to the benefit of the country? "

And then he asked dramatically-" \Vould the cry of Labour-Sociali-_,m scare

the electors at the forthcoming elections? "

Later, referring to the growing power of the Labour part~~, he said-

" Of late there had been a great change coming over Australian politics. Another great power was making itself felt, and that was the power of the Labour party. . . It was the height of folly for any people to try to ignore this new power that ''"as entering into the arena of politics of Australia. This Labour party had come, and it was to grow. (Hear, hear!) He had heard that the ostrich, when it was pursued, buried its head in the sand so that it could not see its pursuer, and would be unconscious of uanger. It was that kind of thing that tne crusty old conservatives, who ignored the new power now entering into politics were doing, and they were just as foolish as the ostrich. The Labour party was enormous, and claimed respect by reason of its principles."

Finally, he announced that he was prepared to travel along these lines with any body of men in order that tho highest condition of prosperity and happiness may prevail. This sentiment being loudly applauded, he added-

" He might then reasonably ask them to disregard the bogey of Labour-Socialism."

Now, here we have two Mr. Denhams-the one a Minister in a Cabinet kept in office

by the easily tolerant loyalty of a Socialist party which had wandered in the politicnl wilderness for thirteen years, and was hungry for office on any terms, and the other the embarrassed leader of a resut"rected and rejuvenated Conservative party clinging frantically to office, and :•Jared at the impending triumph of Labour~Socialism. L1 1904 "Labour~ Socialism" was merely a Conservative bogey trotted out to scare timid electors, according to Mr. Denham, temporarily out of office, and anxious to return. In 1911, seven years later, LabourSocialism "is a sabrrdoothed· tiger, a dread~ ful reality "-anxious to dovour tlhe timid electors, according to the second Mr. Den~ ham, temporarily in office, und despenth>ly anxious to stop there. Now, the Premic! finds it just as hard to keep Labour~Social~ ism out of his speehcs as the genial old imbecile in David Copperfield found it to keep King Charles's head out of his memorial, and the effect in the two cases is equally ludicrous. It appears to me that the quotations I hav,• given should be a sufficient indication to the electors of Toowong, North Brisbane, and Rosewood that the resurrected bogey of Labour~Socialism in simply being trotted out by the Government to scare some citizens who do not think about the matter, but I believe that it will not weigh for ten minutes with any ·sensible, sane, and sober man who has his name on the roll. .\.nother thing the Premier told the electors at Rosewood is that-

" The Labour party said that they did not want in1migrants unless they had money. The Liberal democrats welcmned everybody Vi-~ho was honest and willing to work."

That is not cxactlv what the hon. gentleman told the electors of Oxley in 1904. On that occasion he said-

" People in the old country were hungering for lands ; and we had lands that were hungering for people. 'I'here was no intention of embarking on the old n1ethods of in1migration, which had cost us £2,775,000 and had not even retained the people brought here. . Here they could get a freehold for a very small amount ; but the great factor operating tu deter young men with families from coming to a new land was the isolated position and the ab~ence of facilities. The Government were tal<ing large olocks of land, and getting plans with a full description as to the character of the soil, and what could he produced on them; and it was intended to advertise in Europe-not merely Great Britain-in such a way, and giving such termR, as would induce people to co1ne here in large nun1bers."

The hon. gentleman went on to say-" It was .not a question of the cash value of

the land. What they wanted was people on the land, producing wealth, and by their work and knowledge improving the land. They wanted some of the population that was going tcr Canada."

Those were the class of immigrants who were to be brought out, and yet last YE!ar he spent, not only the £50,000 voted for Immigration, but 100 per cent. more than that amount, and the persons brought out include almost every rank and walk of life-almost every trade-d•apers' assistants, dentists' assistants, and so forth. The Labour candidate for Rosewood pointed out that on one occasion quite recently there were thirteen or fourteen applicants for one piec,; of land, and of course nearly all were disappointed. Persons in Queensland who mal;:e application for land cannot secure it, and

Mr. Lesina.]

902 Supply. LASSEMBLY.] Supply.

yet the Premier talks about making provision for supplying land to newcomers_ The

Scottish Agricultural Commis[5 p.m.] sioners pointed out that the Go-

vernments of Queensland and the other Australian Stat-es encourage people in ~he old country to c?me here, but really chere was no land available for those people when they came.

Mr. COYNE: There is no land for our own people.

Mr. LESI::\'A: ;\fo; theTc is no land .available for our o1vn people. .A .. nothcr noint in connection with immigration: In l904 Mr. Denham said-

" A country was usually gauged by its finance'1. If the Treasurer was able to show a good credit balance, the peonle would be satisfied with it. It was to Carcada that people ·were now flocking. Th1s was btt:J.use there was a good surplus there, and inunigrants felt that there. wa~. no danger of their being taxed out of ex1stencf. It was a ~ afe rule to lay down that if the Budget was good, population would be attrc:cted ; if the financial po :-ition was bad, r.~9pulatwn would be kept away. hnn1igrauts did not care who was in power-they cared only about the finances." If that statement was true in 19·04 it is true no>~l. If immigrants came her~ jn 19d~ owme; to the healthful condition of the tinanci'..:J there is no ne('d to spend a ·.:rraa.t dea.l of money to b~·ing the1n here now t and I understand a considerable numb~r vf people .are coming here to-clay.

1fhe

1l'REAS"GRER: Thoy <!l'O. YCI')r anxiollj

to D0111e.

l\ilr. LESI::\"A: I belic\·o Australia had 37,000 immigTants added to her population last vear.

Th'e TREA~"GRER: Fortunately, "\VC got 1norc than any other State.

Mr. LESI="TA: The op;Josition of the Labour. party for a number of years induced the Philp Government to reduce bv deo-re-es the e_xpend!ture on immigrants, .and ev~ntually It vanrshed.

A GovER?\MENT MEMBER : That was because of the bad times.

Mr. LESINA: In bad times we must curtail expenditure in everv direction. It appears to me, if it were t~ue in 1904 that the C';'?-ditions of the finances are the best ~ve:rtise·Inent you .. can have for creating an l';11m1grant populatron, you have those conditwns now, •and you do not nec>d to spend large sums of money, because people will be attracted by that v-ery fact that the whole of the Commonwealth is on the cr2st of a boom. T_here IS no part of Australia that is not sh~rmg to s~me extent by the great boon:- m. productw_n-natural we•alth productwn-mcrease m stock, particularly sheep, wool, and .everything else.

The TREASURER : Y au cannot call that a boom. It is natural advancem-ent.

Mr. LESINA: Yes; to some extent it 1s " boo!J1, ":nd land values have been boomed up krte-high. They are asking mar€ for land th~n land is rBa)ly wort~ to-day. They are askmg as much m the City of Brisbane for a four-room':'d cottage as they are· .asking for .a fi':'B or six roomed cottage .on .a 2d. section m Sydney, ·and better huilt, with water, se;verage,_ and evBrything eise. They ~re opei.Img therr mouths too big, .and the ~m Will burst .and they will get nothing lrKe what they .ai'€ asking at prBsent. The ~ac! tha~ .1\ustralia is booming to-day-and It IS a JUStifiable boom, except some of the

[Mr. Lesinct.

top values they put on real estate-ought :o be one of the best .advertisements Austraha can have to induce population to come here, and I believe ·a considerablB portion of that population will come to Queensland because of the advantages offered.

Mr. FoRSYTH: Last year New South Wales introduwd no less than 21,000, .and by a Labour Government.

J\1r. HARDACRE: Not inunigrants-increase in population.

J.VIr. FoRSYTH: No; i1n1nigrants.

Mr. LESINA: A perocntRge of those people can1e h·o1n the oth-er ... 1\.ustralian Stat-es, but a considerable number of peoplB caine fron1 Great Britain to Nev\r South V'/.ales <m·d to other States too. The hon. lllClnbor ref.ern:'d to the railway earnings. I notice in ::'\ew South 'Nales the railways earned £4 13s. per cent. last year, and the tramways Barned about £4 lOs. per cent. Both freight .and passenger r.att' .. have increased in Queens]and and New South \Vales -in fact, the ,vhole ~'\nstralian States to-day, irre-spective of 1vhat. Go\~ern1nen~ you have, appears to be boorning .a.long benaLt:ie of the general healthful condition of tho seasons. As a matter of fact, it daes nat matter what title you apply to the Government, the 'cvnditions of the cDuntry, in ... 4..ustralia anyhow, to 1a large extent rests upon the healthful conditions of the seasons. It does not matter so much what the GoYernmcnt may be, or what ij, prrrtieular character or title n1ay be. You n1ay get n1ore socialistic legislation or n1oro industrial legislation from 1a radical Gov-ernment than fro1n a quasi~conscrYative Governn1ent like the one 1ve· have· in offic-J .at dlG present time', vvhich call~ itself ·,J l'·~al radical Govennnent. Ho"\Yever, I think that the succe;:,S of Queensland ju6t no1v c·nnot bo altogether credited to _"he Administration. The Ministry is something like the flv on the wheel.

The TR~AS"CRER : . A good Government alw.ays counts.

Mr. LESINA: Good government counts in any country. To show how false it is to judge a country by its government; you find prosperity in .Japan to-day and a growing prosperity in China, and if you consider prospe;·it.y is owing to the form of government and members of the Ministry, you begin to bewail the fact that we have not a similar Government hero. Prosperity is independent of the Government, and fortunately so, otherwise some Governments would completely ruin a country. There are one or two things in the report of the Scottish Agricultural Commission which I would like to refer to. I notice the daily papers have not made any reference to them. I do not know why, but they do not seem to 2are about publishing too much of this Scottish Agricultural Commission report. In fact, I believe that we would not have had a copy of this report at all if it had not been for the Commonwealth Government. There are statements here about the condition of labour which have been referred to by other hon. members, and which, I think, .demand tlie attention of the Government. Speaking about the wages, on page 147. the Scottish Agricultural Commissioners say-

" "\\-""ages in Australia, although they vary according to the man and the district, are, on the whole, higher than at home, but in looking at the figures it is important to keep in view the different conditions. Tested by purchasing

.'uppl;y. Ll:-3 SEPTEMBER.] Supply. 903

pow·er, a shilling has less value in Australia than in the United Kingdom, the majority of articles and services costing Iilore. It n1ust al~o be re1nernbered that, although the wages Paid to. temporary wor1rers are very high, the work 1s seasonal, and long and expensive journeys sometimes have tn be made in search of it; while in the case of such v.rork as ~hearing and sugar-cane cutting, the big cheque hsi~~~l~. ,:vorked by the rnan taking it out of

That is a very important statement to make. These men, mark you, have travelled through Denmark, Canada, and other parts of the world, and their reports constitute some of the standar1litera~ure dealing with agrarian Sbttlement · m varwus parts of the British dominions.

The TREASURER : Do you not know that the conditions of the worker here are very much better than in Canada?

Mr. LESINA: I believe the conditions are Letter all round in Australia than in Canada The seasons undoubtedly are much bette~ here than in Canada. This will give you an idea of what the conditions of labour must be in Canada. These facts are stated in this report \\~ithout bias. If a n1an earns a big cheque in a prin1arv industrv here ti only earns it b:y taking, it out of h"in1self. ,,e has to ''·ork li!w a bullock to put up a cheque, and he takes so much off his life. He has so much le.s ,-itality at the end of tho. year. The clin1at!c c?nditions operate ag-ainst the n1an \York1ng In son1c Darts of Qneensland. It is no good f<aving· ~nythino· ~lse. ~ ShE-aring in Central Qu"eenslanC1, and m South-wc,tern QueensLnd too, in the ~1.ot \Vc~ther is a. rH-aticul~rly severe opcr:1-Lion. _.~__hen, again, here rs another point· Speaking about the ca• .. ual nature of th~ ctnployment on farms, the cmnrnissioncrs say-

" The cur;ual n~ture of n1ucb. of the t-mploy::nent on f.:. rn1s and the higher wages in citit ., IS ~ main cause of the s.:arcity of labour of Which so 1nuch is heard in the country; for men cannot be expecte:d to appear in unlimited ~1umbers whenever they happen to be wanted _~_or a few v.~ecks' v:ork."

That gppears to be a conden1nation to son1c extent oi the immigration policy of the Governn1ent, because they arc i1nportin'r men who are more suitable for trad<·-1 awl other <'apacities than for this class of ,vork. These men put themselves down as butchers, ~akers, grocers, and hundreds como out like that. I supposG they are absorbed in some \\ ay, either in this State or the nein·h. bouring States, but they do not go on the land, They do not take up the casual work on t~e farms and selections or in the fruitgrowing or dairying industries, because tJ!f~ complaint is still that there is a scarcity of labour.

The Tn!'ASURER : You are not seized of the facts of the case, because a very large number of them do.

Mr. LESINA: I suppose a percentage does.

The TREASURER: Your estimate of trades· men is also untrue.

Mr. LESINA: I know a considerable number of tradesme_n do come out, because I. have seen the list. Then the commiss!oners speak about the housing accommodatiOn for men engaged in this industry-

primary industries, industries close to nature which mpply the raw material which really forms the basis of civilisation. They say-

u Housing is perhaps the most burning quBs..: tion of all. Custom has decreed that single· men etre all but universal]y employed on Australian stations and farn1s. On the smaller· places the men are often fed by, or with, the~ far1ner in his house, and lodged in a hut or roorn about the place. On the larger places, special men's quarters are provided, and a t '1Dk, usually a 1nan, but not infrequently a wmnan, the wife of one of the hands, is engaged to cook and look after the men';:,: quarters. Special accommodation is provided/ and arrangements 1nade for the extra handS on stations at sht :_Lring time. VVhile in fairHess it n1ust be said that on mr.ny places the accomn1odation and food are all thftt <'J..il be 1 e ":ired, it is true that in certain cases, In ~on1e districts Inore than in others, a deplorable v.·ant L-f proper accomn1odation is evident. This dependence on single men is one of the most undesirable features of Australian country life."

Mr. MAX~l: That applies to the old country too.

Mr. LESI:"\A: It cannot be so extensive in the old countr:- as it is here, although it ought i:o be 1nore extensive there, because the \Yages nxe so lo"r. I could quite understand :-t bingle 1nan in that country seriously considering the inadvisableness of rnarriage "'t ali.

The TrEASURER: Do not forget the comn1iss!oners "'-.-ere only in Queensland three l.orecks. ..A n1an cannot discover Queensland in t hre•_ weeks.

Mr. CoRSER: They followed the beaten i-racks. too.

Mr. LESI:\A: I do not suppose Columbus stayed in An1erica very long, and he discovcre>d itJ and during the time these obserYant men were here they had good oppor· tunities, because at every stage of their journey they had reliable men to give them information, and they had the officers of the State to giYe them infonnation.

:Mr. LENXON: They had exceptional con· vonic·'lCes.

:\Ir. LESI::\I .. A.: Exceptional conveniences; Inore than ne'l.lSpape::c ·,nen who come to get information, and they got all the information they ,·;anted. Mark you! these men had been engaged in this kind of thing for years. 'They have travfllled in other countries of the world, and they kw w how to get. information and the quickest possible way of digesting it They are experts, and their report is a very good and very fair report---very honest. It says a number of things that I think ought to ha,·e been ntid. These statemtmts carry great weight, because one would have thought their class bias would have crept into their opinions and would have revealed itself in t11cir reports, but it did not. They absolutely got rid of their class bia.s which, to some extent, influences the opinions of landowners. 'l'he point they make about the single men and about it being an undesirable feature of Australian life is true, as we have been pointing out for years. As a matter of fact, the cle;·gymen who have been prc>Whing against the decline in birth rate might take that as a text and point out that employers of labour could do a great deal in removing this state of affairs, which the commission,

U r. Lesina.l

904 Suppl,y. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

in the short time they were h('re. discovered as a curious feature of Australian life The commissioners further on state- · , "Ail sorts of frivolous reasons are given:

cannot gtt married 1nen'; "don't like children a_bout the place" ; ·· no 1neans of getting educatwn for the children'·; "n1en don't want ~~ ~~~.'~narried till t.11ey go on their own" ; and

i\ir. D. HUNTER: \Vhat is the our education system if there youngsters?

usc are

of no

. Mr. L;ESINA =. That is true. A good deal rs don~ m the drrectwn of getting education for children by our itinerant teachers. The cc,mplaint is that many persons on stations do not. like children there. It is just the same wrth hotels and boarding-house-'. If you go to an hotel or boardmg-house, you will be asked rf .;vou have any children, and if you an.sv.:7r Yes, three or four," they ·will ~ay I cannot let you into the house." It Is the .sar':e everywhere. Children are barred. And rt. Is not a thing that is peculiar to Australia. It also exists in America. It is taken up there by prominent public men clergy_men, jou_rnalists, and others. I~ Amenca. you wrll find whole flats occupied l;>y marned couples wrthout children Never the cry of a child is heard there, a~d never a chrld seen there. It is nothing but grownup persons. I': a gro~ing population they are en_deavounng to rncreas.P the native populatwn, but the increase is all coming from oversea. In Australia we want to do the same thing-to encourage the nativeborn ~opulation.. VIle can do that by encouragmg the smgle men to get married and paymg them better wages to enable them to d? so, and. we should discourage the pra~twe of drscouraging matrimony on statiOns. In another place the commissioners say-

"Another objectionable phase is the demand for rn~rried couples without children, so that the wrfP may be available for work. Surely thL.; ~ousing queRtion demands the earnest attentwn of those in authority. The Comrnollwealth needs peo.ple to defend it, and where can a hardy race, capable of defendin o- it be better raised than on the farn1s and ~tations ?f the country? Gertainly they cannot be Imported as good."

\Ve .are spending £50,000 a year on immigration.

OPPOSITION MEMBERS : Over £100,000.

Mr. LESIN~\: Last vear we socnt over £100,000 on immigration~ These ir~migrants come from Scotland, Wales, England, and Ireland. There are not so many coming from ~rela!ld, because emigration from Ireland . Is drs_co~:tr~ged by clerical, political, and JOUrn~hstw mfluences, and has been for for .some trme past. It has been a recognised policy. of the leading Irish journals for years to discourage emigration from Ireland. They want to keep their own people in Ireland, as they recognise that a country tha+ loses its population is bleeding to death: Ireland has lost 4,000,000 people in the last fifteen y~ars by emigration, and they want to stop rt altogether, if possible. N~w we do not object to immigration. {Laughter.) I do not object to immigration. (Laughter.)

Mr. HARDACRE: Nor anybody else.

Mr. LESINA: What I object to is taxing the men and women of Queensland to buy

[ 1J£ r. Lesina.

competitors who have no means of livelihood to come here. That is the kind of immigration I object to.

OPPOSiTION JY1E1IBERS : Hear, hear ! Mr. CORSER: 'No are not introducing that

kind.

Mr. LESINA: We spent £3,500,000 in bringing imrnigrants out here.

Mr. CoRSER: And we have got a good return for it.

Mr. LESINA: It is part of the financial policy of this Government, and it is a

.subject that we could discuss with a great deal of profit to ourselves. Wo discuss tho problem of investing our money and getting interest for it, but a far better subject to discuss, I consider, would be how we are to encourage our native-born population. I would like to see our native-born encouraged much more than they are by the Commonwealth and State Governments and by employers of labour.

Mr. TRouT : vV e are doing all we can.

Mr. LESINA: Then on page 150, speaking of " land legislation and settlement," the Scottish Agricultural Commissioners say-

" For the last fifty years land legislation has continuallv occupied the attention of the Colonial Parliaments, and numberless Acts have been passed resulting in a co1nplexity of land laws and forms of tenures probably without paralleL"

Mr. CoRSER: We have got rid of that here.

Mr. LESINA: Yes, to a great extent we have got rid of that evil in Queensland. The numberle''S Acts and complexity of clauses have resulted in giving land laws and tenures without parallel. It struck those Scotchmen in the same way. They further say-

" The net result of it all bas been the alienation of most of the accessible land best suited for farming in all the States, with a few notable exceptions, such -as the wheat lands of ~Western Australia, the malice lands of Victoria and Sonth Australia, and sections of the scrub country of Queensland."

We have been referring to this very thing for years past, but the Government took no notice of us. We were told that we were using these phrases as political catchwordsfor the purpose of catchiqg votes. But these men ha vc no electors to face; they do not want to catch votes, and they refer to the alienation of land that has gone on in years past.

Mr. CoRSER: That has been altered largely.

Mr. LESINA: Yes. Then they say-n Looking at the situation now, it is easy to

say that other methods should have been adopted, and that the land should have been leased rather than sold."

Here again, they point out what the Labour party ha vo been pointing out for years. I do not know whether it would be possible to put into force in Australia such a system as has been introduced into China, a coun· try with a population of 400,000,000 people, none very wealthy, many very poor, but an enormous mass of them very comfortable.

Mr. D. HuNTER: Do you want us to go to China for an example?

Mr. LESINA: We can learn a great deal from China. I have just been reading a book by James Stewart Thompson, published

SupJ1.1J. [12 SEPTEMBER.] 905

in 1910. He was for many years in China, and he publishes his cxoeriences and his views of China. It is a s'plendid book, and I would recommend anv member who has a night to spare to get "it and read it. We ·can learn u valuable lesson from China in respect to her land nationalisation. It may be said that the perpetual lease system maY be suitable to China, but the fact remairi:s that the land is lcas0d there, and they pay rent. to the Crown, and sufficient money is recmved from the land to pay the cost of carrying on the government of the country.

Tho TREASuRER : Are we to .understand ihat the Labour part•.· dP,ire us to emulate <China? Is that it? '

l'vlr. LESINA: The Labour party do not wish that at all. So far as I am concerned, I believe in China fm the Chinc";e anl Am·tralia for the Australians. But I was rulerring to their land leg-islation. \Vc know that there have been no broken banl,c; i" China for 2,000 or 3,000 years. If a bank breaks in Australia, t.lwy' want to loan on the Government to put them right, but in Cluna they have a different way of dealing wrth them, as they generall3· kill the man-~ger. (Laughter.) Leasing, instead of sellmg, land has been adopted by other nations, and has worked satisfactorily. New Zea·land tried an investment in that direction and I believe that we have ha·d some land~ ·thrown open for perpetual louse in Queensland. The Premier tolls us that last year, out of 247,000 acres thrown open, only 2,000 .acres were taken up under perpetual lease, But thoro was an option. They imd nn option of taking tho fre~hold, and naturaliv .thev took the freehold. ·

Mr. COYNE: Why

Mr. LESINA: I do not know. It may be due to some kink in the nature of the man. He generally prefers thG freehold to ·the leasehold. Our e'<'perioncc has boon that in British speaking co1nmunities the appli·cants generally prefer the freehold to the l0asehold. That doe' not justify the morality uf the freehold system as against the per;petual lease system.

Mr. COYNE: Nor the correctness of it.

Mr. LESINA: Nor the correctness of it .as a policy.

The TREASURER: What policy do the Labour party individually follow?

Mr. LESINA: They follow the policy laid ·down for them by their electors. The policy -of leasehold tenure may eventually be a ·su_cce'8 here. :"io man can say whether it -wr_ll o: no_t.. But we have done the right -~hmg m g1vmg a man the option of taking rt up ;rnder perpetual leasehold. But in ·order to encourage them to take up land •1.mder that tenure, we should give them tho easiest possible conditions consistent with such policy and in the interests of tho whole community. The only danger is that when we get the perpetual lease system going· that there will be an agitation to convert those leases into freeholds, In New Zealand the perpetual leasehold was quite popular for a number of years, when an agitation ,;prang up to convert the leases into free-

hold. Land was taken up in all directions as perpetual leases, and anyone referring to i·he annual reports from New Zealand and tho spooclws in the New Zealand Parliament would see that there was a groat v.gitation to convert them into freeholds. An Act v;as passed giving pennission to convert these lands into freehold, and they arc now rapidly being converted, and before long the p"rpotual leases in New Zealand will be as extinct as tlw dodo. But they ha vc a land tax OYer th.Jl"e, and from the Georgian point of view that fills the hilL Henry George always laid it down that it docs not matter if the freehold is alienated from the State so long as you haYc the right to impose taxation on tho unimproved value of the land. If that can be done, it is all right, as no man can then hold the land for speculative purposes. So that the time may not be far distant, if tho perpetual lease system goes ahead, ,yhen an agitation will spring up to convert the land into freehold, just as they did in New Zealand. I do not wish to say any more about this matter just now, but possibly later on we will have an opportunity of discussing this very matter. All I am concernPd about is this: that tho Government should honf''ltly administer the public affairs and deserve the sincere and honest criticism of members. The Government that docs its duty with single purpose and honest purpose desencs the credit of members. I think that this GoYernmont deserves credit for having done a great many things during the past year which redounds to their honesty of purpose, and I am perfectly prepared to give them that meed of praise. There arc some thing·s I object to in the Administration, and later on I shall point them out as we como to them. But taking them by and largo, as the sailors say, I think the Administration has been fairlY honest and above board. I merely desi1~~, in closing 1ny rmnarks, to say that while liiving them credit for the State being in uch a flourishing financial condition, I do not want to give them swelled head by letting them think that they were the sole cause of it. TheY have had som"l good seasons which ha vc co'ntributcd considerubly to the prosperity which Queensland to-day enjoys. (Hear, hear!)

Mr. BRENNAN (Rockharnpton Korth): The Financcal Statement delivered bv the Treasurer needs verv little comment' after what lia.s been said by' hon. members on both sides, The hon. member for :VIoreton to-day delivered a speech which I think was not only

th.e best spe3ch of the session on [5.30 p.m.] this question, but the best I have

heard the hon. member deliver in this House. He entered fully into the question of expenditure from revenue and from loan, and he did iti like a master of finance. I have not gone into the question in the way the hon. member has done-I do not think I could do so, and I have not even attempted it-but I have taken out a few fig-ures to show what has been done in certain directions that have not yet been referred to fully._ I have picked out certain figures from the Treasurer's tables-T'able C2-and as theoo tables are not known in the country, notwithstanding that it may be tedious to hon, members, I think it would be useful to g-et them into Han.•arrZ. You will find that Table C2 deals with ten years' expenditure from 1901-2, but not in such a way that you can tell, without making a calculation, how

Mr. Brennan.]

906 Suppl,1J. [ASSEMBLY.] Suppl,y.

much of the -expenditure belongs to any one department. I will take them in the order in which thBy appear-

I I I I

~ i Int ere~t iExecU' IVe Ch1ef I e • I }<ttlVC, l CIB,dr~ •

I

wchednle. 1 011 D ~bt and LPgl'-\ S . t. •

I I I ----------1--£ I £ , £ £

1901-2 ···I 98,967 1,48•>,~76 j 12,781 I 43,117 1902-3 ...

1

JO •,93411, ;ou,ISl ' ll.993l' 25,170 1903-4 ... 9~,17~ . !,5i7,~31 I H.lss 21,727 1904-5 .. 89,o49 I' 1,!\47,0~1 [ H,l ·9 I 1S,9:Js 1905-6 ... ( H!,6ia 1,51G,98l I. 11,3931 45,147 1906-7 ... • 84,803 I I ,fil6,''d1 U,9 9 5:3,383 1907-8 ... I S:J,14J (. J,r;o1,25o • 15,899. •·D,:;~., 1908-9 ... fH,85± l,50'.J,4l7 1~.101 151 ~)24 1909-10 ....

1

102.s·• ~ .·1

1.6:1>, ,7o i 16,0231 lfm:ot2 HH0-11 ... I::W,HlD l,s;n,i72 : 1s :jfH

1

198 :-Ol ----i---1---- _ __:_, __ ' __

I £l79,l49 ,lo.634A58 137,114. 816,859 I I

Au:ricul- ! Public ! i f I,ands. ::\line.~.

tnre. r~~~~~~~c-

----1~-~~-!--£-~-•. I 101 767 I 17 393 I 3C,:J 03S 3'!,503 1901 2

1902-3 1903-4 190.1 j

19071-6 1906-7 . 19J7-8 19JS-9 1909-10 1910-ll

1901-2 1902-3 1903-4 1904-5 1905-6 1906-7 1907-8 1908-9 1909-10 1810-11

•• 1 o:/'i·N l :~3'1l8' 2fU,5~~ w 1)6' ~~'(' - 1-- I '- ' I ;~_'g' ,'lSc

... 1'. ,,, .JO. I 81.77<> i 20 I.OH -· . 8J,4S6 1 :WJi14 . 29 I,DSt I 25,827

100.fi171 3l,:!od 0119,{·33 1 27,467

1

11 ~:~ 88~1] ~~48~"3, ~~j~,u1'8j~ : 2~.7:32 ~:: l 1~~~2i2 1

1

4(6~8 1 ~·t~:7z4 '1

' ~~:~i~ ... I 209 13G I 48.225 I 371,806 41 65ti ...

1

• 21s,.1s2 'i 56.03.3 ! so.J,74s : 47:126 ------,---1-----j£J,:JGS,577. 093,371 I 3.276.278

1• 3J t ('12

i ! I . '

Raihvays. Totals. £ £

990,751 3,967,001 861,749 3,717,806 810,251 3,607,864 812,931 3,581,403 861,356 3,725,712 !)10,638 :;,911,797

1,051,736 4,373,096 1,225,098 4,756,3 1J3 1,412,105 5,113,578 1,560,994 5,314,736

£10,497,609 £42,069,286

I shall now proceed to show how the mo.ney has been expended in these depattments. The

[Mr. Brennan.

Bxpenditure of the Home Secretary'" ment may be thus anaiysed- £

Depart£

Duuwich 408,728 Old-age pensions 148,944 Outdoor reiief 119,308 Hospitals and chari-

table institutions Inebriate Asylunl Lazarets Lock Hospital .. Medical officers

Medical Board Orphanages In~.anity

and

Industrial and refo:tmatory schools

Health Laboratory, etc

Prisons Police Police superannuation

' Otter'' steam:-:r Aborigines, relief of .. Advei·tising Bonrd ElECtoral rcgistr:ttiou R2git trar-General

Quarantine Roads and bridges ::\IiscellaneoEs

Chief office

867,779 1,378

39,114 4,955

28,835 260,665 519,668

51,919

89,104 12,695

240,668 1, 726,182

183,250

ciz .• oG-1 74,293 71,125

2.115 13:097

129,812

2,451,203.'

101,799·

2,150,100· 34,020

102,954

197,482

145,024 32,559·

£5,215,231

::.\o1v, I shall giY the earnin:J:S of our rail,,-ays and the e\:llcnditnre of the deoartn1ent, together with the surplus and percentage of interest payments-

! G~~~[!S~~~~~ -~~.t;:~~ili!g:;;g;~

nh 1 ~mmm@(~ ' __, f I ,~~-~--~--- ---

1 %'(tiE.~ I I ·

1

.s-a'g~ o ~ ~~~~~~f~0~! ~ ~i~!EI ~§~~~~=~~~~1 ~ I. ~c ~--~_""_' ~''----~~----~~--;--::::: -~ I ~ I -0'0~~"'"''""'"'"" I"' ~ , .s 1 ~~.Z:-~1g_~~.6)~6-~~! fS_ ~ .g

1

. Cf1~;;s~~s;;;~~£

1

~ I ! ~wocoow=~~~5 i ;,l

1

-------'-- ---- -

I a:.·~ ...... -.;.._-::: -:.r:..oc: C/') ~! 00 ! rl M C'! - = ......... :f' ~~ '~ c C'J OJ I ;"'I

I ~~~gg~~~~~g~~ ~ I ~~~:~s~~~~~;

I i i~iiii~~;~ -Mt. CoY"E: Where did you get those

figures from? · Mr. BRENK AN: From the T~easUl·er's.

fmancial tables, but in the form in which I have prepared them they have not appeared in Hansard.

Mr. LESIKA: The real :Financial Statement l' Mr. BRENNAN: Take it from another·

point of view, as shown in Table K. I11J the year 1901·2 the interest on loans wa&

Suppl.1J. [12 SllPTEMBEll.] Suppl;IJ· 907

£1,480,376, and the net railway return was £324,077, which amounts to 21.89 per cent. of the total interest on loan indebtedness, equalling about 4s. 4~d. in the £1. The net railway revenue for the year 1902-3 covers

25.34 per cent. of the entire loan [7 p.m.] interest; the earnings in 1903-4

cover 31.32 per cent.; in 1904-5 they covered 38.43 per cent.; in 1905-6, 43.41 per cent.; in 1906-7, 58.78 per cent.; in 1907-8 57.09 per cent.; in 1908-9, 55.24 ~·er cent.; in 1909-10, 55.30 per cent., and in 1910-11 the not amount was £1,143,768, and it covered 68.45 per cent. of the interest bill of £1,670,772 for that year on loan money, equalling 13s. 8~d. in the £1. Those figures prove clearly to my mind that the railways form the best asset we have, and if they progress during the next ten years as they have during the past ton years, they will not only pay their own debentures, but the interest bill on all our borrow·ed money, and leave something for the benefit of the general revenue. From that point of view I consider that 1vhatcver n1onev \Ve borrow, if sr~ent on railways and other \vorks l~eturning· profits equal to the railway.:;, it does not 111atter hov;,r n1uch n1oney \Ye borro1v, in reason of cotEso, we vdll neYcr co1nc to grief ovrr our borrovvcd money. If we con1e to grief, it will be through expending n1oney in un unprofitable way. Touching· tho revenue account, I wish to dra'v attention to Table N, which the hon. mmnber for Nloreton also referred to, but we cannot refer to a good thing too often. According to Table N, parre 42, we haYe eight separate railways-tho Southern, Central, rrownsville, l\fackay, Bowen, Cairns, Cookto\Yn, and Normanton Railway', and the return giYcs the fa] owing figures:-

1 "' ~ 5 &§

'" I 1 i I I ~ I 1~1 I " i §

I i I

I

I I

cr.;:!~""<i''D

<+l~~·c~

,.....,M_.~

c:-,....,lr:l OHO ~ 00

<!j?~;:f~s~ OOC'\1...-!

~~.t--o.J..C"d'',....;J..Ce; !eo • ..;f'IIO"o:f'OCOt:r.lOJ 't:-.. ~- ...-~ ...... ~ I

c 0 '"=' CQ 0 r:c .... , 1.0 C\3

~~~8~~~~~~ ~;fif;i;."~6~c0m-! ~~

0. C'J rl ! ~.,..,_

I~ r-d~Ct-..:O.t-...4.-:lC\!L~ ;:; ·OO~t-..C.:r:-lO';!...':lC'l "' ~-- ..... ...-~ ...... ...-~

C'='lCOQ':lCOOt-..0 ~

--'D•'" rfJI.CI.C...., 00

~~~~~-~~~:~~ '"'" te r ..... eo C'l " i2. t-.~~

"'" ~f

1~-Ia

c io c [o f~ i~ C'! 00 I~, ;t

I~

" "' s .;;; "'

I I_---;--_

~ I

~ " i " 0

h1~~-~n ;:;

" r28~~~c38~

§ (.;

I t--h~tCOCCQOO<:O OJ ~OIQJ..C'i'Ot:O~ "' coo;, .t-.. ,..;

I a> ,..." o?

~~N ~ ~

~,I~, {'... ;:~

io;J

~ ~

'" "" ~ :':'<i Q

0 '" " :2 6 "' "'

E-<

~ 00

"'' 0

" ~ ·;o ..., ~ 0

" 0

"" ..., ·" " A ~

Now, I wish to analyse the Home Secretary's. Department, and according to the Estimates. for this year-

£ Dunwich abc·.orbed 27,060·' Relief of aboriginals. . 17,448 Outdoor relief 4,009 Hospitals and charitable institutions 14~,~~g l~~~~:te Asylum 4:900 Lock hospitals · 300 Medical officers and Medical Board 2,640 Orphanages 46,986 Insanity 68,058 Industrial and rcfonnatory schools. . 5,021

----

Prisons Police

Total

Police super~111nuation fund

" Otter " stea1ner Visiting justice , Dun

wich and St. Helfna

Chief office Advertising Bo8.rd Electoral registration Health .. R'2gistrar-General Fire Brigades .. Incidental and n1iscel-

Ianeow:> .. Raila.::;"-~:, printing, ta

tionery, etc. De'' truction of prickly

pear

Totnl

£ 26,248

239,595

21,500 3,079

250

3,704 6,770 5,140

10,009 6,680 4,500

2,500

2,200

10,000

£326,957

£

290,672.

51,5C'3

£669,132

Then we have the lmildings which have been ereckd by the ~\Yorks Department ior tho I-Ion1e Secretary's Dcpartlnont, as follows:-

c~;Ul'tilOUS,~ , poliC0 buildings, and additions

Hospital l. uildi:ngs, two-thirds cost Goodna . . . . South Brisbane Blind, Deaf, and

Dun1b Institution South Brisbane Male and Female

Prison, electric light South Brisbane f.:Iale and FernalP

Frison. additions and alteration~ Duinvich' Asyh1n1, additions Toowoon1ba Hospital for Insane,

electri..:: lig!.1t Toowoon1La Hospital for Insane,

quarter·.:i, additions, and altera-tions . . . .

Rockhampton Prison, additions and alterations ..

Stewart's Creek Penal Establishnlent, quarters female warder ..

reel Island Lazaret, additions Peel IRland Inebriates' Institution,

additions Dalby Sanatorium, additions

Total

£

12,000 5,500 1,860

550·

700

2,000 1,200

1,350

700·

800·

550 700

750 3,500

£32,350

Mr. COLLI"'S : It is a good spending departinent.

The HO}JE SECRETARY: We think of the poor. That is the reason.

Mr. BRENNAN: The Home Secretary's Estima.tes amounted to £609,132. Add to that the £32,350 spent on buildings, as I h~ve just stated, makes the total £701,482, whrc)1 is equal to 12.16 per cent. on the total est;mated expenditme of £5,768,633; but If interest on the public debt be left out-and that item alone amounts to £1,751,588-the percentage is 17.46 per cent., or nearly 3s.

Mr. Brennan.]

~08 [ASSEMBLY.]

ud. in the £1. The amount to be spent on buildings in coni)ection with education is as follows:-

School buildings, additions, etc. . . Technical College buildings, four

fifths cost Ipswich Grammar School science

buildings, two-thirds cost Brisbane University equipinent Brisbane Central Technical College

equipment Gatton Agricultural College dairy

Total

£ 35,080

12,000

1,000 12,500

5,000 1,200

£66,700

Add to this £66,700, the estimates for 1911-12, amounting to £442,355, and it brings the total up to £509,055. ,Just fancy, over £500,000 spent in this small State on education! (Hear, hear!) I am thoroughly convinced that this is not to be surpassed in any part of the world. (Hear, hear!) I give these figures because they astound me. In a well-to-do young country like Queensland, with a small population, we have no great amount of poverty and distress, as they have in tho older countries, and y•ct 12~ per cent. of our expenditure--

The SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS: Including interest on loan?

Mr. BRENNAN: Yes, including interest on loan, is devoted to improving criminals and crime. including the police who look after crime, poverty, Dunwich, sickness, and hospitals, and aboriginals.

Mr. FOLEY : The capitalistic system IS responsible for all that.

Mr. BRENNAN: No money can be better spent than on education in a young country. Notwithstanding the introduction of old-age pensions these amounts are on the increase.

Mr. MULLAN: The cost of living is increasing all over the country.

Mr. BRENNAN: The Home Secretary's Department spent last year £554,909.

Mr. MULLAN: I notice the Treasurer smiling. He had better look out, as he has got a rival now.

Mr. BRENNAN: With regard to the amounts spent on St. Helena, I do not think we ought to nurse crime in that way. I understand that there are a number of criminals who, no sooner do they come out of St. Helena than they want to get back again.

Mr. MuLLAN: That is not a good advertisement for Queensland, that a man is better off in gaol than outside. (Laughter.)

Mr. MURPHY: It is a good advertisement for the gaol menu. (Laughter.)

Mr. BRENNAN: With regard to the remarks about the danger of spending loan money, }f anyone turns to Tahle L, on page 39, they will see the expenditure on public works from 1906 to 1911. If they look at it carefully, I do not see how, if we go on at the same rate as we have been gomg, that there will be any reason for thinking that we will come to grief in our loan expenditure. In 1906-7 the total loan expenditure was £663,846; in 1907-8, £1,033,320, or an increase of £400,000; in 1908-9, £1,234,625, an increase of £200,000; in 1909-10, £1,515,445, an increase of another £300,000; and in 1910-11, £1,903,891, an increase of £400,000. If we go steadily increasing in that way, I do not see how we can come to any serious harm if the money is expended on railways.

[Mr. Brennan

The SECRETARY }'OR RAILWAYS: You cannot staxt the construction of any more rai~ways if we are not t.o increase our expend.ture.

Mr. BRENNAN: That is S'o. To keep down our average liability we must increase our population. If our population was double what it is, thon our average indebtedness would be much less than that of Now South ·wales or Victoria. If we had the population of New South Wales, our indcbtBdness would be half of what theirs is. I do not wish t.o dwell any further on these matters, but will reserve anything further I have to say until we get to the different items.

At 7.27 p.m., The CHAIRMAN: Under Standing Order

No. 11 I call on Mr. Murphy, the hon. member fo; Croydon, to relieve me in the chair. (Hear, hear!)

Mr. MuRPHY took the chair accordingly.

Jl.lr. D. HUNTER (Woolloongabba): Mr. iHurphy,-I congratulate you on your occu-pancy of tho chair. ·

HONOURABLE MEMBERS: Hear, hear !

Mr. D. HUNTER: I also have to congratulate the Government on the good financial position which the State is at pre&\Jnt enJOY· ing. lt is always a pleasure to see an Opposition to a Government trymg to find ±ault, with something but unable to do so. At the present time the Oppositwn are In that unfortunate position. We had the deputy leader of the Opposition telling us that, there is an abundance of prospenty at the present time. Later on we have had him telling us that we are suffering frorn an mnbarrassment of riches. I think every hon. member of this Chamber would like to be suffering from the same thing. I remember hearing of an old man sitting in church when the minister was preaching on mo':ey bemg the root of all evil, and he lost hts patience ah last and sang out, '' Oh, Lord, give me a btt of the root.." (Laughter.) I think we all wish that abundance of prosperity to carry on for a; long time. That is the attitude that otir friends oppos'te take up, and if we suffer from an embarrassment of riches, I congratulate the Government on being in that happy position. There is a st~ange . position taken up by our friends opposite th1s ttme. The_Y noticed after the debate had started that 1t

would not do to say we were [7.30 p.m.] spending too much out of our

revenue. That would not do from an Opposition standpoint, seeing that we. were contesting three by-elections. They claim t_o be able to pay more than the Government IS paying, consequently it woul~ not do to say that the Government is spendmg too much.

Mr. MANN: I say they are. Mr. D. HUNTER : I am not talking of the

Independent Opposition, but of ~he real Opp?sition. The hon. member for Leichhardt said that with such prosperous times there should have been a larger surplus. He said-

" Coming back to the question of expenditure, it is surprising to me that the Governn1ent allowed expenditure to swallow up increased revenue.'' \-Vhen he said there ought to have been a larger surplus, he evidently thought there ought to have been retrenchment in some direction; yet he said he did not want the total expenditure increased.

Mr. HARDACRE: No.

[12 SEPTEMBER. J Suppl,y. 909<

::\1r. D. HUNTER: If I wish to give two rnen equal shares of a shilling, I n1ust give t~cm sixpence each, and if I give more than sixpence to one of them, there will be less than 'ixpcmcc for tho other. In the same \Vay, if ~Yu wish to have_ u. larger surplus, vYo Hnlst renuce the expenditure.

J\1r. llAHDACRE: Don't go on a financial drunk.

Mr. D. HUKTER: The hon. member suo-gr>sts that the n1o~oy w~s not spent rightlY, but he cannot parhculanso.

.!1lr. HARDACilE: 1:: es.

Jl.lr. D. HU:'IJTER: Then tho hon. member ought to do it. VYhcn they found it would not do to scty they wore against this iton1 or tbat itmn of expenditure from revenue )~h0y wore driven hack to the position of sa)': 1ng that too nntch \Yas spent from loan.

~.h-. HARDACRE : \Y e would not spend £98,000 on inunigration.

Mr. D. HCKTER: Let us sec what Mr. Fisher says ahout in1n1igration.

Mr. FOLEY: What has Mr. Fisher to do \Yith it, anyho1v?

:Ylr. D. KCNTER: They do not like 1\ir Fisher brought in. On pa~i"e 135 of the C~n1~ rnon\YCalth " I-Iansarcl " it -will be found that 1lr. Fi-her f:<-:;.id-

" The leader of the Oppo-~ition referred Lo in1n1igr<tion: and I rnny say that, while we haYe not paraded our policy in this regard, we ha-.;;e done rnuch to create a steady strean1 t9 this country. I venture to suggest that Australia was nE:•ver better or n1ore favourably known in the country fron1 which '\Ve expect our bw t innnigrants to come; and I shall rejok"'~ \vben the Minister of External Affair ... ; h8.s an opp:Jrtunity to submit n1~:.asures for the s~ttlf'ment a1~d development of our !:,rt.-a.t I'\orthern Terntory. In the Ineantim--~, I mav Lay that evPry .shi1) leaving the United Kini-dmn has its sp.. fillnl \Vith peoPle either corning for the t time or returning to Australis.. '

!Ic is ff~m:ying_ in the fa t of s~1ips being nllcd \YILI1 ImJnigrants for .1.\ustra.b ;1.,; :yet v e hnxe lllNl here profe.;sins· to belong to the sa1ne party opposed to irnrnigration. I \Yould noY, say a \YOI'~l a?ain~t lV1r. Fisher personally ~\hear, he 1r ~)-nut nore vve h;_tvo hin1 .-,·lorving in the fact. that ships are bringing out rnnnrgrants, \Y]ule hrs rnates arc doing their hest to oppose immigration.

An IIo~Ol7HABLE Th1E:.\IBE~: It is not in tho platforrn.

Mr. D. IIL'NTER: It will J.o at the next election. It is a strange thing that durinat!Ie las1 three or four months they h'" \'O pulled down then~ platfonn-they e1re asharned of it. The plntfor:n is not in the lForkcr to-dav. They are ahn~~,;Ts rnal~ing the sta.tcrnent th;tt the Govornn1cnt srJent of:119 000 on in1IniQTtttio~; but the staten1cnt iS ~bsolutcJy nnti::uo, anu they know th;1t t.hc Go\r8l'l1nlent onlv spent J~90,000 on irn1nigration last c-e,-,,r. Th~ ch ___ lnJ~Y leader of the Opp( cition, J':i~·. Lennon, sard 1ast year that h~~ "\vanted to rncrc:tsc the 110111innted ; and \YO havo it un tho ~uthorit~r tl~c P~en1icr tbat \YO could grt tOO nomrnated rrnrn1g1·anf~ oYcry 1nonth, or at t0o rate of 8<±CO a year. Ar_o n1C:iabcr·o oppos;t~ to take the word of their leader and sa.v they arc pr~paTcd to C'xb~nd tho noininn.tc~l syst0n1? This year \VC introdu.ccd 7,645 i1nn1igrants at a cost of £90,000: next year we n1ight bring out 8,400 u~- dcr the noLn1inatcd systmu. The Labour Govennnent in 1',1_ w

South Wales is going to get 2,000 immigrants. dm·ing September to leave the old country for that State. GOVERS~IENT ME~IBERS: Hear, hear !

Mr. D. liUNTEH: Are the conditions bettor there than they are here?

JHr. FoLEY: It is time they brought immigrants out for us; \Ve brought out inunigrants for them long· enough.

Mr. D. HUNTER: I am glad to hear that interje0tion. Let 1nc· give son1c tlgures on the point. This is a return furnished by the Comnwnwc alth Statistician for the first six: months of tho year. One of the strong arguments alw,o: s advanced by the Labour party haq been that if "'lve make the conditions good enong·h people will como here of their own yolition. \\'ell, they are coming here from 1';cw South \Yaks-from a State where there is a L_bcur G-cn~ernrnent to a State -with a (}oYOlTtn1ent w11ich is not Labour-not socialist,ic.

.!\Ir. \\.iLKER: IY c have 500 of them settled in the y~-ide Bay district.

An 0PP0.3ITIOX JI.IE~rm:R: The\. carne OYcl' for the canecutting. ·

:.\Ir. :0. HC.i\'TER: These fic,urcs are for tho first quartt::_' of the yL1r-fro~ January to the Lnd of :Jlarch-1\lhcn no canecutt(~.rs \Vere co.n1iug h -•re. It is a~touishing that they should leave .New South \Vales if things are so good there under a Labour Govf...._·nn1ent..

An OPPOSITION :UE~IBER: Only just m office.

Mr. D. IH7::\TER: In office for twelve n1onth8; and jolly well n~ar!y out of office; and but for a man on the other side who acted traitor thev would be out now. Here is the po,ition: 'Nnv South \Vales had arrivals by land to the numher of 49,000, and lost 58,000, in the firot quarter of the .r·ear. i-\nd the only , ·ray of keep in up their population Y>as by n1ca.ns o.f a. strean1 of immigrant-, from the old country. But even with the help of this strean1 of irnn1igrants from the old country, accDrding to this officia.l return, their loss fro1n oversea and interstate erriigration wai 1,989 dm·ing that period. Evidently the pco.plB knew were the conditions \lilCre

good. I ;va;::: speaking to one of the hip,h officials in the Raihvay Departnx~nt about tho ~.vages paid on tho l\J:orcc~JUungindi line, and he said the rate V· as 8s. a day, and the In en could \Yalk OYer tho border into Queensland and get 9s. a da-v.

~1\n 0PPOSITI~N 2\I E1:IBEH: That has only been since we forced it here.

C\1r. D. HL'i'\TER: Onl 0 5inec !hey forced it! Let th8In force the LaLo.ur GoYcrnn1tnt of ?-;'ew South ~~-ales; thry haYo never L,en <.t.ble to force any Goverunu•nt here. I ha\'·'' giY{'ll the figure~ for th" firFJt q ua.rtcr in l'J c;v South \Yale~. In the f~econc1 quarter of the _year 2 ':03 n1orc peoph l~ft that St ·te than went in; a.~1d if \Ve ta.ke ihB nurnber who left bv Jane!. it IV ts a rl' ~h fro1n the ccllditions i1l :\Te\1 ' '.Yales to the good co11tlitions ('xistin'i," ,1and. Tht·\~ undct'ta.nd tho po·~it:on, no rn.~tt~r how ou~· fri' nds on tbe ot J.., siJ, try t0 ·lnfi , he public. Duri:ng the'" fir.:,t half of tlns year 4, 792 n1oro JY'Op~e left 1"-Js··~' South \Ya!. than '"ere brought in,_ while Qnecn-:1 a._~J gained 13,124.

GoYERXME:-;T :::JEl\1B~ ns: I--Ir:u, he1r!

::\Ir. D. Ht::,~TER : Tlte sr~tt'-~ of ,,-ictoria ha.s }rnin{_d 19,0~ ·: 1-..v arri-.-als o>:er drpa.rtures. That is a strange thiu.;! Tho c-:dy t;,vo·

J{r. D. Htmter.]

910 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Suppl,IJ.

!3tates in Australia which have "~.Ya.ges boards rn pr !ference to arbitration and conciiiation courts are tho t\vo States to which people are rushin~. Take DYen South Australia, where they have a LaLour Go,Ternn1ent. Thev did not lo":2; but they o~1ly gaiaed 366 in th~: first quarter, and 980 in the lmlf-year. Th~~ Prime :\1inister of Australia, at the Federal Parliament, complained of the fact that his Government had no laud. That is a horriblo position for a Premier v,rho has just taken oyer an immense terr,tory. There are 523,620 square miles in the Xorthern Territorv, and only 1,200 white men; 3 et ho say .. the}r haye no land. He wants us to do all the work o.f putting people on the jane!. In the Northern Territory the increase for the firs~ six n1onths of the year was only sixty.

Eon. R. PHILP: And thev are all Qoyern-ment people. -

?Ir. D. HUNTER: There arc 334,000,COO acres unalienated iil the N-orthern Territory, and 238,000,000 acres unoccupied altogether. Coming now to the rather diflicult subject of \vhether \Ye aro spending too nnlCh loan n1ont:y, I an1 prepared to adn1it that we are spending a good bit of loan 1noncy, but vd1at do we find if \Ye L;)l11_pare the p_,_·esent condition of things with flO"G \rhich pre-

ailed when we wore spending Yery little loan money? I find that in 1906-7-that is only four years ago-we spcl)t, £5,332 on inHnigration. If in1n1igration is a bad thingfor Quccmlo"nd, then the year 1906-7 shoulcl have been a good tirr~e for the people of thi·j State. But Wa'S it? Is there anyone here who will say that that was a good time for tho peoplo of Queensland' \':hy, you could get a house thon Yery cheap, 'and altnost get the house next door for fire\Yood. Many houses were empty at that time. Our loan expenditure that year \\·as only £683,000, now it is £1,995,000, or £1,311,000 more than it was in 1906-7. But we spent that £1.311,000 extra on tho opening up and development of our territory, v.hich has; enabled our raihYays to pa;r better, and v-hich has enabled rnen to get better \\ages than they did fonncr]~y. The, pt:::1plo rLnY arc having a right good tin1e; I do not sa'\T they are rich or that th''Y haYc the highest 'Yages that will be paid, because \Ye shall alv;ays be adYocating higher '"" gcs. Let me compare a fevv -of the itcr11s of State ex~ ponditure in 1906-7 1Yith similar expenditure in 1910-11. In 1906-7 we ment in round figures £83,000 en hospitals,' last year '"e spent £106,000; in 1906-7 we spent £21.000 on orphanages, last year we spent £36 000: in 1906-7 we spent on buildings, ou't of revenue, £52,000, last Year v.-e SO('nt £114,000; in 1906-7 we Sjlent £160,000' on police, last yee,r we. spent £222,0~0: in 1906-7. we spent nothmg on inspectors of machmery, last yP 1r we spent £8,989; in 190?-7 we spent £4,147 on labom· and faatones, last year we spent £8,613: in 1906-7 we spent £42,000 on ports and lights, last year we spent £61,000: in 19f''1-7 the Printing Office cost us ·£30,000, last year it cost £78,000; in 1906-7 we spent £133,000 on the Lands Del?artment, last Yt'ar we spent £21_8,000; 111 1906-7 we spent £36,000 on ugnculture, last year we spent £56,000: in 1906-7 we spent £329.000 on education last year £393,~00; in 1906-7 we spent £29,000 on the J\lmes Department, last year we spent £47,000; in 1906-7 we spent £910 000 on railways, last year we spent £1,560,000. Altogether we spent £1,078,000 more than

[Mr. D. Hunter.

've previously spent on those services, "\Vhich is almost equal to the extra loan money that we expended last year. But there is another itcn1 that 'vo should not forget, as it is one ihat has been harped upon a good deal during tho last h;o or three years, and that is tho a1nount exoe:fldcd on· outdoor relief. \Ye ha Ye heard rio thing about that matter this yem·, and it vould be interesting to kno'v the reason "\vhy. Four years ago 've spent on outdoor relief £10,714, and last ye:1r we spent only £3,898. Ko wonder 1ncrnbers cannot help saying that conditions ar-e prosperous: But we should further ron1e1nbor that we have enabled the Federal Goverr1n1ent to pay tho old-age pensions, :J'3

we contributed £254,506 for that pm·posemore than in 1906-7-bringing up the grand total to £1,333,000. All that money came out of rovc)nue, 'and it ought to r·'ww that Queen,_.,land is in a very fortunate position indeed. If bv a:nv Ineans hon. mcmb:TS on the otlh~r sf de ~vere to get, into po\Ydr, "ould they spend less loan money than the pre:)ent Govern1nent are prepared to · iY':ncl? I dare say they would seek to 1n~ke the people believe at the present tune that tlY-'Y 'vould spend less loan 1noncy, but if they did spend less the,- would not be true to their platforn1. Their platfonn is either honest \dth the people, or it is int~nded to deceiYe them. I think it is intended to be honest \Yith the people. \\'hat, thon, haYe they got in that platform which would require the expfnditure o£ an in1n1ense amount of loan moneY? First of all, there is the nationalisatiori' of hospitals. Then there are State sugar refineries, ·which, according to J\lr. I-:Iughes, are institutions that can be established bv the Federal GoYernnlc 1t. But let n1e reaLd to han. n1e~nbers what J.lr. I-Iughes says about establishing a refinery "·hjch could cmnpete with the Colonia! Sugar Refining Company's refinery. ~e is rerdying· to an argu1nent that the Frd.:.,ral Govorrunent have po\vcr to establish a Con1n1onv (;alth rcfin ·;r~v. In doing so he gut · nJl round th0 ship} but at last the :\Ielbourne Age drives him into the position th&t he is bound to confe:::s that the Conunonwealth Govornn1ent are able to establish a refinery to con1pote with the Colonial Sugar Refining Co1npany either in the Xorthen:!. Torrjtory or jn any other part of Federal territorv. There is more land in the, Noxthern Territory, with a rainfall of over 40 inches a>nnually, than there is in any other part of Australia; consequently it shonld be an ea 0<r thing to establish the sugar indust.ry there. But ·what does :1\~r. f.fughes sa~,· on the subject? This is \Yhat ho says~

l< Over the t::reater nart of a column " Le::: " sole1nnly parade-, with fatuous complacency his di:::covery that the Con1n1(:nwealth can ;tart a ;.;ugar refinery in the Federal or Northern Territory. Of course it can. No one hac:, as far a~ I Jnww, ever denied it, or dreaincri of attz.mpting to do sa. No fact in the rcaln1 of pnlit.ics i:; n1ore clearly established or E1ore widely known.''

Mr. FERRICKS: Dut it would be ineffectual until the Commonwealth have control of trade and commerce.

~Ir. D. HUNTER: The only thing is that they would have to compete with the Colonial Sugar Refining Company. Mr. Hughes further says-

" Then who would give the Commonwealth refinery sugar to refine? If the growers were

Supply. [12 SEPTEMBER.] Suppl;?'· 911

m·e the r~finery would last, they would only .De too glau to do so, but if the Government J:efillel'Y lost n1ouey---a3 it would inevitably do --th;::! people would den1and that this insensate -atte.:_~tpt at cunlpetitiou .::_;nouki. cease."

'The Go~7ernn1ent could not successfully con1-,pete with the Colonial Sugar Refining Com.pa11y by expenchng n1oney fro1n revenue. Then where would t'ho money for a State refinery come from.? Out of loan. 1Lhat '.tatement of Mr. Hughes's is one of tho finest th1ngs I have read. sho~ving the futility of the Government attemptmg to compete i\Vltll t~e Colonial Sugar Refin1ng Company. ·;rhere 1~· . (!,;1othcr. thing i_n the Labour plat.;. ann '" hrcn ,vould rcqurre a, good de.:tl of borrov;·ed rnoney to carry out, and that is tho ,proposal to establish State smelting works. How much would such r:ori'5 coct 1 Possibly £1,000,000. Then there are proposals to .estClbhsh Stat• sawmills State ftourmills :_State freezi~g \V~rk~.' and 'they arJ going no~ for the natwnah .. ,atwn of the liquor traffic. To ~ationali~e the "liquor traffic th ?Y would re,qmrc at 1 east £3,000,000 or £4,000,000. Where would the men who objecc, to expendi.turc fron1 loan a.ccount fret tho n1on8y to ,c~rr;;~ out th~nFroposals contained in th';ir o\vn p1atrorn1? lney would have to spend un 1~nn19nse an1ount fron1 loan on things \vhich they cannot s 1.y will be a success or otherwise -they do not know whether they would be a .succe oS or not. vVhat tho present Govcrnrnent _are spending fl:mn loan mon€y they :_Te cpendmg on a beaten track-they know exactly that railways in the past have been a success, and that further expenditure in a similar direction means the Clevelopment of the .o0untry. Though some members say that we ·arG spending too much money, they never ·attempt to show in what way they would '<'Urtail the expenditure of loari money. At the back of tho Estimates there is a sum of £75,000 for plant for the railv ay workshops. Surely hon. members would not omit that ~·tam ! Then th,'re is a sum put clown for Improvements at the Gympie Railway Station. \Vould they cut that out? If so, perhaps tho Qovernment wo~llcl obligE_' them by omitting t11D 1tem. A'Yaln, I notice that there is a sum of £6,236 for work at Bundahorg. \Vould members opposite like that it<>m cut out of the Estimates? l\' o; the thing·s they would ,f"lut out are items for worl.:s which ar'e not in "the1r own electorates. But while Son1e JTIBTI1-

~ers. opposite talk agai,nst ,;vhat they call this b1g- lonn expendn:nre, \Ve have th8

member for Burke telling us that the Governnwnt ought to buv the Chillagoe Railway. I do not kno\V y:,'herP n1embers \voulrl get the 111oney they \Vou1d require to carry out the La.bour platform. If they had +o carry out that platform, I think they would find themselves in the soup. Membe'rs onoosito have for a long time told us that: if thev g-ot into power thev would imuos<J a land tax I wonder if any of thPnt hav8 evPr rPcknP..ec1 uo how much thPir lanrl tax is likely to vield. \Ve cannot get the offici a 1 fwures. because no one has gone into the mattPr

thoroughlv. but if we go into [8 p.m.] i·hem WA find that n land- tax in

Sonth Au:=;tralia ,~lork:1 ont. :;-omething like 4~. 6ii. ppr head of the nonulatinn, consequentl:v a land tax in QuePn".Ja,;cl of /\cl. ;n the £1 would onlv return :8140.000. Not a very big Rum, after alL If we talm tb" West AustraliaP laml tax, we will find that it works out at 2g. 6d. ner head of the pormtion with lcl. in the £1 tax. but thev onlv have an exemption up to £50. Here the

Labour party's platform ;.ays that the ex· empt:..on 1s to be up to £300. It is quite saie to sa.y, if you make tile exemption £3GO, you will get not more than 6s. per head of the population. That wo11id only yield in t2ueEns1and £175,000. Novv, £175,000 i.3 all that they can po-::Jibly raise, in 1ny opn1ion, by a land tax, and it is a very generous estimate, and that is the only tax that they have ever advocatu1 in this House; and I want to say that ~lr. Fi;:her, in talking of his land tax, said that it dicl not reduce tho price of land. So far as a reduction in the price of land is cancerned, the farrner would pr~y exactly \vhat he did befor2, and he would ha' e to pay the extra land tax. If \Ve only rai.:: ~d in re-'\~onuc, at the most, £175,000, what ~~re the Labour party promisins· t 11e people at the present time? It is like the "\vido-·'l's crns3 of oil. Now, if \Ve take out £90,000 for iiriinigrat~on, we haYe only about £265,000 altogether, out of vvh!ch the raihvay men, if they received 8s. a day, as our friends opposite state, would ab•·Jrb £100.0GJ. ThPn if we gave mothers the smne as foster-1nothers, there is another £3.'i.OOO gone there. Then we haYe over 6,000 widows in Qu· <msland, according to the Commonwealth Stat.istician. The Labour platform has also a nlank-" Payment to \Yidoy·s." "

2'1Ir. O'SuLLIVAN: \Yhich yon object to.

Mr. D. IIU:"JTER: I "·ould uay it just e"s \Villingly as anyone in Quoenshl1d if I knew ho\v 1ve are to receiyo the 1noney. Hon. mmnbers opposite have not shown us how \Ve

1aro _t~ raise the rnoney. Kovv, Ne'y Zea

la.nn, \VItnout a Labour party, arc go1ng to pay 7s. 6d. per head to indigent widows. Supposing we vverc to pay that an1ount, we \vould again absorb an innnenso mnount of n1onoy. If we \\ere to nationalise tho hospitals and all that sort of thing, and pay all thosn t.hings which hon. rnen:bprs opposito have been pro1nising, then v:0 \Voulrl have au annual expenditure of £495,000, and the only way they can do it is by levying a. land tax which "·ould yield at the most £175,COO. Hon, ~~ncr11bers oppo-3ite ha.ve not a l-?g to stand on. Ca.n they show mr how they arc going to pay all thc;_,c things they are pro1nisin::r to the public at the present lim8? The other night. ·while the hon. 1n.c.rnber for Carpentaria was speaking, he \Yent very strong o:q the saving:; banks returns, and n t that time I felt it was almost unfa.ir for :: nv Gov'-'l"l1TI10nt or anv party to con1pare thc:Ze retllrns. If \Ve tak~ •• ICnibbs, '' he~ .showc; the percentages being paid in the ,-arious States. New South Y./ ales pays 3 por cent. up to £500. l'~aturally they \vill get a larger a1no·~nt of n1one~r into their banks. I do no.t kno·"1' if it Yrould not be a wise thing to take !he advice of the deputy leader of the Opposition on this matter and allow interest on amounts over £200. The New South \Vales Gov0rnmcnt Savings Bank pays 3 per c:nt., and the Savings Bank of New South \Vales pay., 3J, per cent. up to £200, but they arc not savings banks such as ours. Thoy are v.:sted in truste,es in somo cases, and are not at all re3ponsible to Parlia1nent, a.nd do not even present a. report to Parliament. In Victoria they pay 3~ per cent. on the first £100 and 3 per cent. from £100 up to £250. Now you would think that would attract denositors. In South Austrnlia thev pay 3~ per cent. on the fir"t £100 and 3k per cent. up to £250. \Vest Australia pays 3 per cent. up to £1,01l0. Now. fancy if we had all those depositors, or one-third oj them,

!.fr. D. Hunter.]

9l:;l [ASSE:;}fBLY.J Suppl,y.

of £1,000, how we could inflate our deposit per head. But, as a rnatt£r of fact, if \Ve look at the rcturns-I went to tho trouble to get the ·wholo of tho'Se savings banks returns fron1 the various States, and I found that whilu we V\'Crc told bv the hon. lilClnbcr foe Ca>·pentc,,·ia the lmmGor of the depositors in the various States, V1'e have a systcrn here by which, after se con years, all our deposits which are not operated upon become one account-arc called one account-but in \ ictoria alone they have 147,000 of these depositors njth just over £20,000 to their credit, or 2s. 9d. per head. In the other States U1ey hav-2 a larger number of people using the savings bank, but they only us~ the Governnh=mt Savings Bank to sa\~e the lOs. which thoy have to pay to the private banks, and the Government docs not get an:;· profit out of it, because some depositors at the end of tho year· hayo not a shilling to tho credit of their accounts. Another thinr:r I would like to chaw attention to is the fact that tho member for Carpentaria has been yery strong on the Goyernrnent this last year on tho fact that we were not admini,tering the .!:Jealth Act in a prorJer way, ctnd he referred to (~uoensland having a bad death rate. It is really interesting to soo that for this year, accordmg to the returns '' J ha Ye just re· c · ivcd, we stand in the bct:.t po,:ition of any State in the whole of the CommonVtca!th and New Zealand. Our deat1h rate per thousand cf rh'· population is 9.70, and in Kcw South \Yales, \V Hst ~lustralia, and N 2'v Zealand it is 9. 71. Only a po·nt behind us but still behind. Routh Australia is 9.72,' and then come' Victoria with 11.27. and Tasmania with 11.35. \Vhen '"' c con• ider that a fc\\ years ago J\Ir. Pag··, the mcmb0r for ~Jar~~noa, said that the din1at~ jn Queen·oland \If as not good fo1· women-he y.,:cnt on to sav ho\v they suffer0d and they had to be taken out of Que~~nsland to rocune· ate in tlv::' South0·"n States. JHr. Fisher did not like it. but :\Ir. Pa,!:;e n1ade the statornont, and if it is true it is all tho n1ore credit to ow_· T-Io-:18 Depart~ n1ent that_ in a cli1nate ·v~;bich OV(?n our ov;,'n :rr.en1b0r clajms is a. barl one--althotv:.rh 1 do not lwlieYe it, but one of our mer't1bors traduced the State of Queensland by making tl1at statement-yet the returns show that \VA are the rnost healthy State in the Cornmonwe dtli, I think it sa,~s a lot for the Government in their adin{ni tration. No~,\if 'YC takE> tho to';7 ns-the hon. ffi!"mber for Carpentaria wa:x~d Y( ~~·y stron:_..,. on this point--that Brisbane \'as unhealthy. that the IIerrlth Act v-as not aclmini~:;tf'l'Cd. and yet \Ve find for tho ' ·holo of Australia we stand second on the list. Sydney on tbis occasion sta.nds first with a death rate ncr thomanrl of 10.37; Beisb:l.ne C'On1cs next '.-,j'_h 11.19; .. Adelaide next v,·ith 12.32. undt-~r a Lnhour Government. If it is true our death 1atc is incrcas,_-.d bv n1aladministration, then jt must be equaiiV true t;hc~t th::-, df'a.~h ra:-c. of -\_dclaic1e has go12C up t11rou~h maladrr.tnistrahrn tncrc. V\, o cannot g-et a~'.ay fron1 tht.sc figures. \Yo hnxo got then:1 vvorkc::l out not bv anv

1- -'"trliarnf'nta.rian. but by our o:, n stati~f"-"·:::iai;, and I dare sa.v thov vvill sup0ryision of tho Comm;nwe~lth wn Another argnrncnt introduc0d 1vas ·with reference to a, State coah~1inc. I thi:J~ the 0xpericn.co of ·victoria 'vit.h regard to her State coaln1ino is not a too happy one. It. i~" true the condit:-Jn, o.f the wen hayc been irnprov:~c1 to a grc~t Gxtent, but, afL.r a], the p~i:o of t.he coal to tho consnn1er has not been in any •.:ray

[]f .. , D. Hunter.

bette,·ed. When I interjected about the C01_1-sumer, the hon. member said that the publw could not buy that coai. If he understood tho subject a little better, he would know h<:> could not buv it in little quanht!es, but slack coal at the· present time can bo bought by manufacturers, and one of the argun1ents introduced by the l'\lelbournc Aoe for some time back has been the heavy price which the consumer has to pay for the coal. If all t.his nationalisation is going to have the effect of incrc asing prices to the consumers. then nationalisation is not such a great thmg for us to invest our rr1onev in. I do not think it is a wise thing to go in for a £10,000,000 loan to help increase our inr!ustries if it is not only going to incroa .e the ·wages of the men, but also re.ise the price of commodities. \\Then tho hon. n1en1ber for Clernwnt \Vas speaking he referred to the leasehold system, and I remember th" action of the Labour party in Victoria in supporting the n1ining leases there The Government naturally expected that· as tho country developed thw lc'ases would go up in price. But, no ! The· Labour mon dicl not believe in the leases going up. 'rhe Governn1ent \verc then asked to t\n·n them into freeholds, and the same· would be done here.

Hon. R.. PHILP: Tho same thing has been. done here.

:\Ir. D. HUNTER: Anv man standing for an electoxate, if he <.~dv;~cated cheap rents for lcasPs, he would ge~ in every time, \vhile those opposed to thG cheap l€ases on1d be clcfcaL•d every time. If ,. e could only get a1vay frorn the industrial disputes that have benn fomented too much latelv bv some of our friends on the other side." then (\necnsland j, in for a y 'rY Iaro:G degree of prosperity. But if 1;-.~; caunot get oYer them, then I am afraid that the men who break our wages boards or our arbitration court a\vards are· doing a very bad thing for the working classes of Queensland and New South \Yalcs. Some~ times we hear of the things that the Labour party have dono. T"vo, or three years a.~·o we were told that they gave us the wages boards-that they forced tho Government to give u.s wages boards. That was the langultgethey used. Yon sometimes hear it still, that \Ve got "\vages boards beca.nse the Labour party forced the Govcrnn1ent to f'iYe the1n to u-;;. But :.\Ir. Bown1an, in speaking in England the other day, put the who.lo show away. In an intcrviA'c with the reporter from the London Lubotttr· Leurlt r, '·\'hich was rep1·inted in the Cow·iCt' on the 23rd of August, l\Ir. no~,\ ma.n w·a.s askect, "Y~-hat about v .. ~ages boards?'' and he replied-

" They h c not \vcrked as satif·factorily as of m-; '"'uld have liked. A.s a nw.tter Gf ,,-e opposed the1n on tY.cir introduction

.'.use T, G had greater faHh in arbitration C'Jurts, but ulthnatcly we had ~J take then1 or DothLng.'

\Yho forced thn Gowrmn>"nt? Why, Mr. Bow1nan sa.ys, " 1.Ve had to to.ke tl1at or nothing." (Goven1n1Cnt laut:htcr.) lf we lJaYo indu ,trial legislation on the statutebooks, the Labour party used to say that they forc~d the Government. to do it. But 1\lr. Bowman sayr, " \V e had to take that or nothing." K o 1vonder that during the referenda ca.n1r ai:n they were trying to do. away with wages l oards a.nd get arbitration courts. In doin.g- that they are doing one of the most foolish things possible from theii· own stand-

::Juppl,y. [12 SEPTEMBER.] Suppi;IJ. 91~

point~that is. in fighting for arbitration court-; in preferr>nce to \Vagcs boards. '\\~lien Labour comes in power, if the.;, kcep tho wages boards, they will have three men repreo.cnting the employees, three men represe!1,ting· tha employ<'r", and th,•y will have the ball at their own foc.t, as they can elect the cha.irman from the ''rorkingn1an's standpoint.

:\lr. O'SuLLIVAl":: \Vho elects the chairman?

:\1r. D. HTNTER: The Government; end we are told that we are to have a Labour Gove!·nn1cnt next vear. I am snre that the hon. rnC'rnber beliBves that we wiil haye a Labour Gavcrnnl8nt next year. They are t<>llino: eYeryonc that at the stre<Ot corners, and that being so, and a most. of the wa :!·e··· boards are to be vacant next year~as they are on their last year now~the power will be in the handR of the Labour U:overn1nent to appoint the chairman of the new v ages boards in most cases. Consequently frorn their own standpoint wages boards are th-e thing. In the case of an arbitration court the men go before a lawyer, put their case before him, and, if it is a good award, abide by it; but, if it is not, chuck it out. 'That has been the policy that has been adopted. I have an article hcrp. showing what Mr. Verran said abo.ut strikes. \Ve know that during the strike in Lithgow, Mr. Beeby, the New South 'X Rles I"abour l\linistcr, sent up thirty policemen to keep orrler. And this is what :ilr. \'erran said to a Sydney reporter-

" Sydney, ·wednesday.

" There is no doubt whatever about the policy of our GoverEnlent regarding industrial disputEs," said ).Ir. V2rran, the Pre1nier of South. .\u~tr dia, who is on a visit to Sydney, "we stand straight for compulsory arbitration. "\Ve have no ~,jnnpathy "\Vith unions that prof( :s a revolutionary policy. Our State has ~-aid that a ·trike is a barbi:rous, out-of-date n1ethod of dc,.iding differences between ~~Dlployers and employees."

"Then what are you going to do to preYeP_t trouble like that experiencPd at Renmark jubt now? " he \Yas asked.

"Unfortunately, we have no power now," Wn'' the reply, "but since the Feder::d referendum has decided that local industrial disputes are to be a Stat" n1atter, rny G-oyernn1ent has decided to introduce a Con1pulsory Arbitr::ttion Bill. The principal provision of the Bill will be to make every union and every association of e1nployeeR register under the new law, and then the <wages board's decision must be observed, just as any other Itnv i~ ob~:erved. Onr~e the two Houses of Parliament say that industrial dispntc'3 must be decided by la"\v, then a striker will be treated as any other la·.v-breaker."

How would our friends opposite have liked the GovemmPnt to try that on in the sugar districts?

·~What about the right to strllr·~? "

"'I'her:: will be no right to stri~e r,, L ~nised. VlhPn a Labour Goyernmt- nt is in power it is just as necessary to haYe h:nv and order observed a:::; at any other time---"

Do my friends opposite hear that •

" and if a 1najority of the pe:'1ple s-ry through Parliament that the intere--ts of the comn1unity der:.1and a cessotion of strikes, then they must cease. It ic all a quection of the liberty of the many against the license of tht: ff'w. Labour stands for liberty and the prc::::ervation of the rights and illterests of the majority in the comrnunity."

" Then why does not yc.ur G.Jvernnie~t prevent lawlessness at Renmark? "

1911~3L

•· \.Ve have taken eYery pr caution to se tht- la\ <-:.s ;ye find it is carried out. It is not true that we hesitated reg;;udino actio:a at Ren-1:!.1ark. Our pJlir.o authoritiEs there have not asked for additional help. Indeed, they have reported that the police there are c~~fficien~ to cope \Vith any trouble. In spite of that. w~en -,\ e heard there was likely to be something _,pecia.l happenir:.g on a certc:in date we se~rt two additional nlounted pollee to Renn1c~r.K. \Ve do not ft: ar any legitimate unionbm, but the hailer·~ in the Renmarli: di pute are rnen v ith rl"volutionary intentions. They make no :ecret of their opPof3ition to L .. bour. We have

no rtE:ce· ity to pander to thern in any way. "\Ye attn"k then1 opt>nly. Tliis cla~;s of opposi-tion causes n~J e1nbarrassrr..ent."

Mr. J'vlAXN: \Vhat did Verran do when the strike was on in Adelaide?

::'vlr. D. HUNTER: It does not mat:ur y·hether it is a Labour Minister or not, he has to VJ)hold tho law. It docs not matter what GoY-~rnnlcnt is in pcn·ver, the lavy n1ust be upheld.

lilt\ :\fAXN : He did not uphold it in .:':..delaide.

:>.lr. D. HC.:\TER: 'We had <'Kf>e•:·(cm.oo latclv in l\T C\V South V\7 a.lcs of a L :tbotlr

lHiu{.:-t.cr sending the police to Lithg0w t(, prevent trouble there. If ··ye only stop thPse industrial disputes, and get industrial legislation which will be for the benefit of the people, and we go on developing Queensland as \Ve are doing at the present time, th2n ,.\~e may be certain that Queensland will go an and prosper. We will then be able to take into our State many more immigrants than we are taking at the present time, and as we introduce them we will find any quantity of '.vork for them to do. (Hear, hear!) In the last fortnight there were two or three boats arriving here with immigrants, and I thought they were bringing them in too fast. I heard tlw dep6t was overcrowded, and I went over and I found that there were only seven or eight young women there and about thirty or forty men. The place which was full the day or two before was almost empty. The Immi· g;·ation Ag·ent said that it was astounding how fast thov disappeared. They were all getting- 'vork~ I am bound to say that in Queensland shortly, instead of talking about a minin1urn wage as we have been, \VB will have to have a maximum wage. \Ve have men on our wharves who are pocketing £5 or £6 a week. There is a monopoly. It is '' monopoly inside their union. While these men are pocketing £5 or £6 a week, there art' other men in the same union \vho cannct (arn more than £1 lOs. a week. My friends opposite talk about equal opportunity for all and equal distribution of work, and I hope they will come forward and bring about "' better condition of affairs, and not allow a. fe•·,- to have all the good things and the o~-hcrs to haye only a fcmr of thm11. {Hear, hear!)

Mr. CRA \\FORD (Ji'itz,·oy): Mr. Murphy, ~I am very pleased to see you in the chair. (Ht·:·,r, hoar!) It wns said of your predecessor in the chair that no one cou:d be as wic'l as he looked, and I will say of you that no one can be as genial as you appear. (Laughter.) I hope you ,,.;u continue to be genial vvhile listening to the few d1~y remarks which I have to make on the subject of the present financial position of the State. I have listened with a good deal of pleasure, and I may say with a good deal of instruction, to the spce0hes which have been delivered on each side of the House upon

Mr. Crawford.]

914 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply .

. that al1-important topic, the financial position in which the State finds itself to-day. I must say that I have not sufficient temerity to go into any large or any wise analyses of the Financial Statement which has been delivered to us by the Treasurer. I find no difficulty in restraining· my ad1niration for larg8 columns of statistic,, no difficulty whatever .in restraining myself from proceeding into .the roalms of high fmance. I am quite willing that those who find a pleasure in its realms should proceed therein and give us the benefit of their experience. I am sure that tho House has benefited from the speeches which they have uttered here from the studies which they have made: and from the close analysis to which thev have subjected the Statement made by th'6 Treasurer. I must say that, so far as I have been able to direct my intelligence to the Statement delivered by the T'reasurer, it appears to me to be a very clear outline of the present fmancial position of the State. very clear indeed; and the Treasurer has not been under any painful necessity to juggle with the figures in order to place before us a clear delineation of the position in which Queensland finds herself to-dav. I must felicitate him on the very hap])y circumstances which attend his first delivel:-

ance as Treasurer of this grca t [8.30 p.m.] and flourishing· State. He has

shown us a surplus arising from a very proper comparison of figures, and he has very ably steered between pe3simism that would induce parsimony, and optimism that would induce extravagance. It is not always given to Treasurers to put before the House their Statements under such happy circumstances, and I am sure the hon. Gentleman realises that.

The TREASURER: Hear, hear!

:\Ir. CRA \YFORD: It has not been my goo,d fortune--or ill-fortune, whichever it may be-to listen to many Financial Statements; but to this one I gave a great deal of attention, and I am exceedingly gratified that it pourtrays to us the continued progress .of Queensland. The fact that we have a Government that has put before the people a progressive policy, to which no member can object, goes a long way towards declaring this: That un!es3 the party opposite rises to a higher sphere-a more utopian sphere-there is no reason for their existence. They must completely alter their programme, revise their platform; they must, in fact, bring forward a new platform in order to show that there is any reason for their continuance. The programme put before us by the :\Iinistry must commend itself to all who love progress.

GOVERNMENT MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

Mr. CRAWFORD: And I must say that the Statement contains this characteristic-a . characteristic which, unfo.rtunat -ly, has l::een absent from many Statements-a very clear enunciation of the principles which underli-e the policy of the Government. In the past Statements have been delivered containing long columns of figures, more or less illusory, ·connected by remarks more or less ambiga·a.us, and totally lacking in an explicit delineation of the policy of the Government ; but I must say that the Statement now before us is very conspicuous in that it outlines a -vigorous policy of development for Queensland.

GOVERNMENT MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

[Jfr. Crawford.

, l\Ir. CRAWFORD: It may be that in the past TreasureTs, and o,ther J'dini"sters who have occupied office in troublous times, have felt called upon to resort to some httle attempt at equivo<;ation in order to tide over the trouble in which they found themselves. It is an unfortunate circumstance, but more or less true, that Ministers have not at all times found it advisable to give the public a full statement of the position of the finances ; and in acting so that they might gain some advantage in that way, they have been liable to lose much of their reputation. But to-day we find ourselves in the happy position of having before us a Statement the figures of '"hich we feel have been honest!) brought together and honestly compared, and not juggled with in ordc.r that some credit may accrue to the Ministry. It is a peculiar fact that figures are the servants of duplicity as well as o~ honesty; and it is unfortunatelv true that in many cases in the history of parliamentary government Ministers have felt themselves compelled to contort figures in order to inspire confidence. It is not the duty of Ministers to shovt that the State cannot make pro~:ress, that it bas arrived at tho eo1d of its capabilitie,; but it is Y<'l"" hard in times of trouble to shoFr that the" State will triumph over adverse circums: ances. The '.\Iinistet finds himself able to announce a surplus for the seventh time in succ~_ssion. It is not a very large surplus; probably it would have given greater pleasur~ if it had be-An divided arnong.Jt members, as shareholders in a great corweTn, for the attention they had devried to the interests of the country. (Hear, hear! and laughter) It has be,en remarked that we seem to be m a time of boom; but I do not agree with that idea. If '"·e notice the operations of the banks, we SLe that they are very serious in their attention to buRine·,,. They are not urging on speculation that would lead to disastrous results, but are holdmg their money ready to lend t.o people engaged in business for the advan~ement of the State. l'\eithcr do I agree that we are enjoying abnormal seasons. They are just the seasons that any ordinary State ought to have; and as long as they continue, Queensland will make great progress. Referring again to the surplus, I do not know that we should call it a surplus-it might be just as well to regard it as a proper business balance. I must congratulate thB Tre,asurer on having gone beyond the £5,000,000 period in revenue and expenditure, and on bein~r able to show a proper balance. In many States of the Commonwealth l\Tinisters have not hesitated to resort to the starvation of one or more services in order to obtain a surplus; but I feel qLiitc certain that the Government have not do.ne anything of that kind in order to obtain the empty honour of being able to announce a surplus. All the departments have boon treated fairlv we 1!, and the Government obtained their surplus in a legitimate manner . The figures in the Statement submitted to us are not the complete figures showing the full prosperity of the State. They only indicate the prosperity as far as revenue is concerned; but the figures to which we might devote our attention are those showing how the private incomes of the people have advanced-how the national income has advanced. I am glad to say that ''"' are continually advancing, aPd that the policy we hold in this House. to which no side is opposed--the progress of the State-is having its proper effect in advancin1~ the prosperity of the whole of the peo.ple. A

SuppT;~;. [12 SEPTEMBER.] Suppl;y. 915

good deal has been said in regard to borrow• mg, and some members have expressed the opmion, that it should be stopped, and that we should oorrow no more. I do not find myself able. to agree with those who hold that Oplll!OD,

GOVERXM.ENT ~iEMBEHS: Hear, hear!

Mr. CRA \Vl<'ORD: I consider that we are committed to the policy of borrowing, from the very tact that we are a pro~;ress1ve poople. Ho"'r can advance if we do not n1ake wse .of the <oapital ready to be advanced tc. us from other countries? There is one thing however, that requires to be thought of and that; i.s this: \Vhile \Ye are borrowini and sp2ndmg mone3, we must reflect that it is 1rnperahve to preserve some elasticitv in our revenue. If we go right up to the 'limit of ptoductivity in taxation, VIe should retard our -:Progress, because .w~ could not then go any mrther. By obtammg money from tin old .COU11try, by obtaining loans, \Ve preserve a very large margin of elasticitv in our revennes wi:th which to . mee~ ~meril'encio~ as they anse, and I thmk rt rs necessary tha. we should do that. \Ve should not bring our reve-nue, whether by taxation or any other systen1, up to that lir.~.1it beyond which tho pBople cannot pay. "Yo must leave tlw rnatter so that if an e1nergency arises wo c,.,n increase taxation or other illCJ,Ds of rGVL'lllH~. If we stop obtaining loans, I do not .:>88 l10\V

we can preserve that 1nargin of cla~ ::ici·c,r which is necessary in public finance and "'1 I say it is aL;;;olutely nocessury to co~tinue the "Syst.em which has bBen planted in Queensland and in evorv other State in the Colnmonwealt~h. The. real basis of our future progress is. to be found in the many thousand·, cr m1les of railway that \VO have constn.Icle'], and to which people in tho old country V'ho lent us money look as se.curity for the [ldvanc as made to us. "V e cannot ston th;s pohcy. It has been caid here that the rrramlGr in which we are spending money frmn loan should be brought to a full stan. I say it, is .absolutely impossible to stop -for the next twenty years. If I l'an calculate at all, v"'o must make up our mmds to spend a consid,,rab)e amount o~ loan :mone~r in laying Lh wn railways, and 1n constructing harbour and othe-r works of a renroduetiYe rharacter durinR· th" l)ext tw!'nfv Yf'"1rs. \Y" r mst, look forward to a full twenty years of loan ·expe_ndrture before we can cry a halt in that partrcular direction. IV e aro building up a great country, we have full confidence in th1t country, and I do not see any necessitv for crying a halt in the USB of 'Joan money in ~aymg down proper foundations. Onr credit rs good; no one impugns our credit: it is g<?Od tliroughout. the world, and I bcli0ve it wrll be better, beca.u,e by the expenditure we are no'Y author~~Ing" we. are showing cur eonfidence m the ultrmate trrumph of Queensland over any obstacles or trouble~ t.hat J'lav ,ensue. Some membBrs of the Labour 1,artv ha':~ said. "Don't borrow, don't borrow a~t all : and yet, t.hev advocate borrowing from the Commonwealth. That seems to lllt> a little inconsistPnt. If we ought not. to "borrow then it is iust as. mnn}], an evil to Uorroy,: from the Commonwealth as to borrow from anyone else. I see no special reason whatt?v·er why we sho•1ld borrow from th" Com men· wealth as distinct from any other 111011 -·vlender. The financial aspect of borrowing 'is not the only consideration which weighs wilh the Tre::surer when obtaining loans. Tt is " good thmg for us to have London. the great

money market o£ the world, interested in our development; and how can it be interested in our developJl1ent JJ.nless we resort occasionally to it tor the purpose of obtaining sotne of th2ir mon<ey, and bringing it out here to utilise in the development of thB country? That is the way to cause people to think of Quecmsland, to remember that therE' is such a place in the world as t,lueensland, and that we are using our monev wisely and well in reproductrvro works. The private financiers o£ London have the acutest intellects m the world in regard to money matters, and they considar every circumstance that ran affect the money market, and they wnsido3r our applications as they are made on their merih. But; whBn we go to the Commonwealth, we do not go to a private :financi-er~we go to a controlling authority, who may put the baliff ln if ·we do not n1eeU our obligations on due data. The people in the old country who lend us n1onPy rely upon our honour in meeting our obligations a-nd paying interest when it bec·Jmes due. But the Common1Nealth Parliament is a po\ver above us-a national power; ar,d we should, in bono>Ying from them, f6Ye then1 a power over us. A:: a honF ruler, I think we sho~1ld retain the greai·e:';t pos~ible royv·cr over our o1vn affain, and I hold that. in considering a qm 'tion of this kind, we ·::)h,Jn]cl givo prOper con~.ideratio:!l to that circumstance. I have> not ron~:.; deeply into this matter, nut 1t has occurred t.o 1n.n that '·'·e should ,·etain the fullest possible p01Y :--r ov -'r onr o\vn revenuE'.

An Hm:ouR\BLE ME)IBER: HaYc we not poyrcr ov1:-r our own :revenue no"\Y?

1\h. CR \lYFORD: If we borrow money fro1n the Cm:1lnlOlliYCU1th, shall ''"o not give pmY<"l' to the Commomwalth to comA here and demand payment of the money when it b~comee due, aDd say that if it is not. paid thev will coiiC'ct ou;· revenue? That is a cor;sidcration which ought to appeal to us. I need not go further into the matter now, but I tJ1ii1k the idea I han• mentioned \vill appeaJ to hon. mombPrs as one de --erving of consideration. Another reason why we should not go to tho Commomvcalth is that we find that the London moneY n1arket affords us tcrn1s Jnorc suitable tO onr requirements than arc offered by the Commonwealth. Let us then go to that market which considers our requirements and gives the longest terms and best conditions. I think it is only right that we should do so, a.nd f'onsid_·ring the ononnous number of opportunitie.s tho"t exist for the investment of mone:c a''ai!ahle in the London money matkct, I arn of opinion t.hat 've are for~unat~ in getti og n1oney there. ~1oreoYer, m gomg there we arc advertising the State, 1.ve arv sho\ving thT!t we haYc confidence in tho State, and we are making its resources better known outside Ausb·alia. Now let me refer to the matter of the tramferred properties. I fpeJ that I shall haYe to hurrv over this subject, because of that implomen't which I do not know how to describe but which .li1nits our tin1o of speaking, It' does seem to me that the Commonwealth Parliamont have . br ~n very long-winded and drlatory m bnngmg about a settlement of this matter. I do not know ·what reason actuated them, but I think that the Com:nonw~~Ith Govcrnn1ent, c-;;pecially that now 1n ofhce, haY.' atten1pted to drive a very hurd bargain, not alone with Queensland, but with all the States of the Commonwealth.

Mr. Crawford.J

Dl3 [ASSEMBLY.]

I do not know why they should do that, with a surplus unsurpassed in the history of parliamcnta1·y governm<mt in Australia. But theY arc quibbling about the rate of interest to be paid on the money invested in those properties which have been of such ~:,rcat usE to the Co:onnonwealth, and they are attempting to drive a very hard and undignified bargain. So far as I have been able to consider the matter, I think the payment for those properties should have been made in cash. It \vas perfectly well known \Yhen those properties v;'ero taken OYer that they had to be paid for, and the Commonwealth Government ha,-e had -ufficient money to pay for them, and thc7 should have paid for them, instead of quibbling oYer the n1atter and endravouring to get out of payment. The scheme outlined by the Treasurer is a very good one, and I hope that it will be carried out, and that he will exhibit that firtnrH- ss 1vhich is nccc.:,:-.:ary to con1pel dw Cornmonvvealth Governn10nt to do a fair thing to the States. A good deal of talk h:" been indulged in with regard to immigration, and a tron1cmdous outcry has been raised bccaube last year the Government spent £119,282 in bringing people to this State. I do net consider it too large at all.

Mr. HA:\JIW'OX: Parliament only appropriated o~50, 000.

Mr. CRA lYFORD: It is not a matte,· of appropriation altogether: it is a matter of

1vhat the State rc,_.,ru..in·-~, and the [9 p.m.] actual intoreoh of the State will

always justify some little alteration of constitutional propriety.

GoVERN.ME~T l\1E~IBERS: I-I ear, hear!

Mr. CRAWFORD: This policy of bringing people here must continue \vhile our fair f,easons continue. \Ve n1ust ha \ye 1.nore people here. It is absolutely c ,:senti a! to the progre"S which we wish to achicYG that we should have more people, and that our immigration policy should continue, not in one year great and in another year small--not one year 100,000 and another 10,000, or none, but continually, in order that people in other countricB will know that we are really in earnest about it; that ··xe are not bringing· out rnen to fill a vacancy now and then, but that we are bringing out thousands of people to fill the vacancies in tho enonnous country under our controL and thnc Yacancies must be filled if we are to make any progress at all. How \'could the stoppage of immigration be intorpreted "? \Vould it not be interpretcod bv those who are outside the Sbte thnt we hac! reached tlF limit of our capabilities-that we had co.rr1o to tht' end of our nowers~

· tha,t \\ o could n1akc no further p\~ogross '? That would be "' rno.t disastrous interpretation, and one that 've \vould not rccove1~ from for many year,'. It is worth "hile reITieinbering that no Govorn1nent can regard a State as a mushroom with a definite term of life-to rise up and flourish, then decay and disappear. Every Government must regard a State as having a permanent capacity for progress and improvement. If \V€

say we haYe come to a full stop-that we cannot go any further--we arP doing no good to the State. \Vc are putting a black mark upon it in the face of the world, and '"e ar•D prm·enting that progress which we, as part

[Mr. Crawforil.

of a great Empire, should be mak_ing. Th:'Jrefore I say let us continue the policy of bnnging people here. Bring as n1any as we can. I am sure they will tind employment; that we· "·ill find a, place for them in this large. an~ progres~·ive r:Ju.ntry. I a.n1 takrng, as rt IS

son1ctirnes essential to take, a non-party view of this il'rnnigration question. I thin.k it only ,·ight that v, c should l?ok at ~h1s itnn1igration policy fron1 the pornt of. y1e\v of Queenslandcro-from the point of mt1zens. of a crrca~ country and whirh can be grcat"r, and if we contin'Uc to bring to this country great nurnlJC'l's of people ,. ho ':'rill btcon1e good citizens \YO will b(· doing r1g·[.tt. I. say inunie:ration is an irnperlous necc-ssrty cf thl-'• situa.t~fon in vYhich \VO End ourselYes. \Yt~ 1nust ha, ... e n1ore pcdple. \Yo rnu~~.t bring them herG, and the prE:::,ont GoYC~En1.cn.t h~ve done TdHLt 1 f")nsider it.s duty 1:n bnng1ng large nurnbers of people here, and I ant o·lad to know <:!.lSO t}lat, th( 'lC people \YhO ;omo here are experiencing Yery little diflicult" in obtftinjr)n' crnnlovrnent-mnploynwnt whi~h "' illlr-ad tl;~rn o~ ar~d e~able then1 in the f ullne.~s of tin1c to bcconw rL:d good settlers and citizens of tlw greatest State of the Ccnnrno::.'l~'\ h~lth. Bcfol'e passing- a1vay fro111 inunigration, I would like to reinal'k that pcrha'ps arc not getting our full share of e:11igl'anl '" frorn foreign counL·ies. I do ~1ot r l.'l' that there is any harn1 in encouraging. thu r,eop~o of Northern Europe to come here. \Y e know full ·,·ell the Germans, Danes, S·wcdes, ::"Jor''.-·egians and Rusjans 1n_ake :·ery good citizens, and I think we aro do~ng nght in bringing· tho111 h(- ~~e and eYicnurag1ng thc1n· to con1o here, and in rnaking our country known ""mongst them. vVhile I ·'UPf10rt the brin~:ing of foreign in1rnigrants to thrs co~n~ try, I do not support the idc,t ?f a.fford1ng ~;roup scttiemcnis for them. I thmk 1t would b~~ \\'Cll if \Ye t,ook upon our.,.clvcs to sec t]:at the foreign imtnigrants ·were distributed arnong:st the .. people,. "It is, to n1y mind, ~natural corollar"\ of one people one flag, that '''" should 'have "one people one !an· guage, '' and the best way to secure that is to· sec that the people corning here w.ho .speak a foreign lang·uage dhould be drstnbuted an1ongst the English speakin~· people here. Of course I do not 1:v-ish to be reg·arded as desiring to place an embargo upon the linguistic excursions of the genial Ho!ne Sccret;wy, but I do say the people spcakmg a fore:g-n lanO"ua.o-e should. not be enconraged-\vesho~lcl ~ot allo\v that \\·hich exist.:; in .A1nerica -to build towns and slums pra.ctically, and cities of those people who do not speak the· language of America.

}1r. HA111ILTON: The Black Hand Society.

JYil'. CRA \VFORD: I am O!JJ10Sed to anything in the nature of the Black Hand' Sociotv. H has been seid that there is a possibrlity in tho future of great ynexnp~oyrr,cnt arising out of this irninigra.t1o_n _J~ohcy .. I a,rlmit that there is a largo po''"b1hty '?f son1o trouble of that sort arising-, but rt .1s a long wa.y ahead, and it partakes of this characteristic-that whether industrial troub!,cs will aTise or not, it is not necess':'-ry t~at they 1vill arise owing to the n~·mig~~atro?policr-they will arise whether :''e aave 1mm1-, gration or not, and I do not thmk we would be right in stopping the hands of tJ::e clock simply because \YO may be apprehens1v_e _that in the far future some unemployed cnS1' or· some industrial trouble,, may come about.

Supply.

At ton minutes past 9 o'clock, the CHAIRNAN rebLUUed the chair.

Mr. CHA \YFOR,D: 'That is, I admit a dark .foreboding, a foreboding which we a;e callad upon as members of Parliament to consider a.s _one which we would gladly obviate if po·.: c;rbre; but there rs still a darker foreboduHr. We know that the Commonwealth in its infa~cy has passed la"'-' in regard to the in

·Dommg of people from other countries, which 1t has not the power to carry out-it must rely upon a po\Yer outside itsuli in order to entorce those la-vvs. I refer to the la'.~·s which exclud~ colou.red people frorn ..c-\ustralia, and . I s~y th~s darker foreboding to which I alluued 1s that tho Japanese will not for rver submit to tho insult on acrcmrlt of their -colour. Unless we are able to shd!Gr om-so}' •'S behind a great and growing people. wnat chan c-.• haYe- \Y J ag-ainst the burst of accumula~ed indignation and the pent-up -feeln_lg of the Japanese and other coloured P.coplc of the East? I say this is a considPrahon that we ought to have in view. not th<tL we ITID~,~ haYe an industrial crisis 'in a f0w years, but. that "e might be conquc,ed bv the vcr.v people against \'l.'horn 1ve have p~t.serl most rcstric.tive la,vs ''nd most humiiiating Jaws; and It IS m order to ward off that dark J?Os,ib;lity that we should encourage the• bnnc;wg mto Qnecnsland of thousands cf white poopie. Pa~.ing away from thfse matters, I must ·.a.v that· ihe 1~<-l~lwav rf'turns show very f··tt.isfactO;~ily. l feel YerV nlcased to think that the managemE>nt has' b

1oen' so

good that we are able to chronicLe a splendid return_. gnd that we are able to n=-lV upon a con!muan~e of that return. I am glad that 1ho J'\orth Coast lme ha.s bo0n•takr·n in hand and I think it >;ill not be many years, if th~ present progressive, policy continues, l-efor(' \VP

are a hie to put om-solves in the train here and r~d~. rig.ht a.''lay to the northernmo3b post of oivJ!Nthon m this great State. I think that is as it ~honld be. T kn.ow, throug-h comrDnnications which have con1e to n1e . .a rcm_siderable amount of dissatisfact'on exi,ts in th0 IV c't about. the rout"' of the proposed \Vestern Ra.1lway. Not havinr!' any personal knowhelg-a of that part of tho connt.rv, I refrain from maJnn~!.' any re-1TI;\rks about it bnt I shall. await with interest an exnrP;.sion oF ammon by those who reprecent that part of the State. bccaus" I an· anxious to s-eo i.hot in our railway policy w-e give a fnir deal to PVNV part of the State. I would like to lulYe ·seE'n a greater number of neoplF~ ~·?ttled on the lands of onr State clurinQ' this vear. I conf<"ss to considera blc disappointn1Pnt. I rlo not know to what I may attribute tlw came. '1'ha.t mav be bronght. befor<> Ps later on rlurnw t.he clehat0. lmt I wonlrl JikP to s.ee " g-reater number of nconle settlod on the land 1wcanse to that w~ I~ust look as th0 !'Pal hasi~( of fonvard progresc of this countrv. I honre that. if anv amendment: of the l.~w is l"<'f!uirPd. it will be broug-ht before the Honse bv Ministers. and prop~sed in a reasonable fashio,n, and I am sure that it will rec"ive impartial consideration from every part. of the Honse. I notice one expression r"garding land setthment, and that is concerning perpetual leases. It appears to me that alt.hough opp0rt.unihes have heen given for large numbers of people to adopt this form of settlement, they have almost in every case preferred to obtain the freehold of the land thev wish to have.

Supply. 917

::\Ir. HAMILTON: '1'hat. is not so in every case.

:Mr. CRA lYFORD: I defer to the experience of the hon. member for Gregory in regard to the land laws of the State, and I confess no very great acquaintance with them. I have very little authoritative knowledge in regard to them, but it appears to n1e that the s'tat~"tnent cannOt be contradicted that when gi·cen t.he option people preferred to obtaii1 the freehold.

Mr. H.UIILTO:>: \Vhat else could you expect?

~1Ir. CRAWFORD: \"Vhilc many advocated the perpetual lease in theory. they prefen-eel tho fceehold in practice. With regard to our pastoral industry, it appr<trs to 1ne that it is lik,:-.1~ to recc>iYc great expansion in a short tin1e to co1nc. There are a great nutnY Jifficulticj to o-..-erconle in the Eurl;pean countries in regard to the irnportation of Australian bod, but. we have bee" reading- lately of the dear food riots in France and other countries, and this \Vill Iced to the breaking do\' n of the obstacles that stand in the way of t.he importation of Australian beef into those countries. In that case the pastoral industry will rec;eivo a great benefit. In regard to mining I shall not have a great. deal to cay beyond this: That the revenue retums do not bv any means indicate the full c·xtent of the industry tl:nt is going on. Because \Ve do not pcrcci n") this !'Oar a great increase from mining, it does not follow that the mining activitY has been lessened. 8o far as I can gnther: there is a g:reat a1nount of mining acti ,-ity going on all over the State, although tbn State cloPs not rccci-re any return. 'There is a lot of deYelopment going on. At JliJ ount 1\.Iorgan a great shaft is being sunk which before long -;ill come on to payable ore. Then when thG Da" o>on Vallcv Railway is completed it. will pass the old Dee copper-mine which wa'· worked many years ago. It is a ..-er;~ rich property, and as the railway "\Vill bring it nearer to 111ark~t, it will give greater employment to people a"d greater returns to the 'Treasury. I rush over Inatters in order to refer to others which ma~- be mo1·e or ]c,s of greater moment. I would lilm to refey in detail to mining, bnt I will have a better opportunity 'vhen the :Mining Estimates come up for consideration. I 'vant now to refer, in the few moments left to me, to the Department of Public Instruction. vVe all agree that this is a great spending department. 'Tho esti,nate is put down for this year at £442,000. That is a very large amount, and it is an amount that is likely to increase, because our population is also increasing, and our ideas in regard to education are becoming enlarged. 'There exists, in my opinion, an absolute necessity that. all the branches of education should be co-ordin. ated. 'There has been a gap here and a gap there, which, of course, obtained the attention of the department, but t.he department was unable to bridge over that gap, and I feel sure it will redound to the present. Minister for Education that he has brought before the House a proposal to bridge over several gaps which have been found to be inimical to the co-ordination of our public instruction system. (Hear, hear !)

Mr. Crawford.]

918 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

At Mount Morgan, as is well known, we have. a very fine technical college, which is a pnde to the whole town. \Ve have over 500 s~udents attending it, and the committee workmg that institution have found a tremendous difficulty in that the pupils coming to them from the pubhc schools were not fitted to take up at once the training started m the technical college. There seemed to be ,a gap behveen the p_ublic' school trainir:g ann that of the techmcal college, and In order to bndge over th'at gap something was _necessa.ry to be done. The committee of the mstltut10n, actuated by the best impulse and. the very best ideas, approached the Mn:nst~1: and have endeavoured to make thell" Ideas known throughout the State that there _should be some sort of high school system whwh would fit children going from the pubhc school into the technical school to receiYe tha~ training which would fit them to -go out mto tho world. I am pleased to see on thn Estimates a ,•,urn for that purpose, \rhile other large towns are boin,. treated in similar fashion, I an1 sure tha't th~ .rleasm:c which this agi·eement in the :Yl:!mstry " Ill give "'Ill bo greater in Mount ::V10I·gan than in any other part of the State. The Mount Morgan Company, which I feel ~ ma;<· sa_-,- here IS the most liberal in the date ?f Que'?nslancl, has done ~. great deal t;nvarcls helrmg on the students attending tne tcchmcal college, and thPv and all the people in Mount Morgan will' welcome this Estimate_ and this determination on the part of t~e _vlnnstcr for Public Instruction to est;a,bnsh high '-<;:lwols. Recently we took a rt ,C'r~~l~dnm on th1s.1nattcr in ~lount ll/Iorgan -a.na In parentl_1es1s I n1ay ·-3.Y that in spite ?f recent experwnce a great ntunb0r of us m :'vlount Morgan do believe in th<• referendum-so that the Hini-ter should be approach:d and asked to do who,t he could to brmg mto <"xiste;,ce at once the institution whiCh :'·oulcl bridge OYer the gap between the orclmary school and the technical college and I am :;cry pleased to sec that he, ha~ done so. "ust ~ word in regard to loan expencli~uro, It Is. rertainly growing rapidlv, but so IS the busmoss of the countrv. The real burden of our loan exponditur~ is the amount_ of mterest we. have got to pay annual13-- It IS very difficult to fix anv proponwn of loan expenditure which shotlld be mcur:·ecl, but there is one thing '"e should bear m mmcl, and that is that we ought not to c;urtaii our powers of dealing with extraordmary emergencies out of revenue. It 1s l~no\vn th~t ahnost eYery year there is an mcreasc m the powers and functions of ~overn:~nent. and we ha,)';e to ta.ke into consid:ratwn when we consider h,nv far limitatwn should be placed on loan expenditure. Once more, JYlr. Stodart, I complain bitter!~- of the rapidity with which the hands of th{:~ clock move. Son1e reflections were passed on the low price of our stock, but we ~nust remember that for '')1118 years Australia has not been popular in thG London 'i'on.ey marke~. ?'here has alwa: s been some aegiee of preJUdice a!l'amst Australian stock and we ought not to complain. We are lucky m getting quotations regularly on the ~oEdon 1non0y n1arket, considering that ours IS not ~he most profitable investment that IS offcnng for those who have money in that part of the world. \Ve know that our count:y is advancing, and we have confidenc€ that Jt will still further advance.

[211r. Crawford.

The bell indicated that the hon. gentle-'man's time had expired.

Mr. ALLAX (Brisbane .South) : I do not intend to take the full hour of the clock on this occasion. I will reserve what I have to say on many of the details in the various departments to a later date when I can speak to more< advantage with the time at my disposal than I can at this hour to-night.

Mr. McRPHY: There is nothing like getting in early to a Yoicl the rush at this game. (Laughter.) There are more undelivered speeches in this House than enough, becausemembers keep them over until next time.

:\Ir. ALLAN': Allow me to tender my expre·-;ioc> of appreciation at the wav the· Treasurer has placed the Estimates befdre the House Thev have been placed before us in a. very clc ar ~1anncr, indeed. I have also to thank member,; for their criticism. I refer more particularly to the , peech made by the junio.r rDcrnber for l\1aryborough in dro\ving attention to what he had seen in the course of his t.ravels in A.merica, and wbat a grand type of men you can get there to help to peopl: our short-s. It Jnust be rernelnber,ed that it only takes them a few hours to go to Canada) while \VB haye ~ __ rot a great distanceto come to Australia. 'We have got to bridge over that distanc,e and make our country kno-,,-n to the---e men. I am glad to know that direct cornrnunica.t1on is again to be opened up between San Francisco a.nd Y' ancouver with Australia. The American farmers know a good _thin~~, and I an1_ ;:;ure they \vill come here. By going to CanacL they get land costing 2~ clo,llars per ac:e; that is equal to lOs. per aCl'·C. I have · 'en that land, and it is, not. to be con1pared with our lancl. I hope that something will leo clone to bring Queensland before theRe .._q__nlericnn farmers. I think

it would be a good thing if we [9,30 p,m.J were to invite a small deputation

of tho.se Canadians to spv out our land. in -the same manner as the CommonweaJth Government invited the Scottish Agricultural Commissionel's. I have also to thank the hen. member for llloreton for the ¥ery interesting and instructiYe \VilV in vvhich he put bc·fore us certain figures in the Budget. Heferencc has been ma,de to the amount standing to the credit of depositors in our Savings Bank as compared with the amounts depof,itcd in the Saving>, Banks of the other States; but the comparison is not a fair one, bocause in one State the rate o£ interest is 3~ per cent. against our 3 per cent., while in another State the limit of interest bearing deposits i' £1,000, while here the limit is £200, I thou_~-ht it might interest member'' if I took out figures on a fairer basis; and in doing so I took the total depo,sits in the various banks in the different States and added the total deposits in the various SaYings Banks. and then divided the amount for each State by the number representing- the population, thus obtaining the arnount depo.sited per head. It- must be remembered that times are different hero from what they were tw-enty years ago. Prior to the gn=''.1.t fina.ncial crisis. of 1893. our banks v-ere largely supplied with British and foreign capital; ])ut I have been informed on tha best authority-hv bankers and others-that at the present tim·~ there IS practically no English capital--no foreign capital-in our banks-that it is practically all our own money; and in the event of disaster

:Supply. [12 SJ<~PTEMBER.J Supply.

overtaking us we would be able to stand such a trw! far better than we could twenty years ago. Here are the figures I wish to quote-

I Pupula- : t ~~ ttoli. i Arnoun~. r I

l:'er Head.

------ ~~---:~----- ~--~---

New Zealand .. , 'rasmania .. ·west'rn Australia South Australia Vietoria 1\ew :south waies Queensland

1,007,811 W•J,8o8 ~SO,:Jltl ·.til, .Ot

l,;J15,0JV l,ti±t:!,tlO

605,043

£ 3.,663,519

tJ, l~9,050 ~.786,007

15,8\JU,4o'/ 5~, 185,894 74,3:ti,4!7 ~4,94u,tiBt5

£ :34•:39 27•18 ~J,-91 ;J8•64 44'~4 4tJ'l0 49'48

5,458,4JH 2Z3,003,320 40'85 average.

Queensland has deposits of capital in the banks= ~1~~ le~:~~~~.t. over the average for all tlle States aud

l\lr. FOLEY: How much is each individual entitJed to?

1\lr. ALLAN: I have some figures bearing on that, point, and l may as well give them ~lo~v.. 8p_ae,l~rng

1In round figur.e.;, thel income

tax IS pa1d oy 22 per cent. of the population, leavmg 97~ per cent. that pay nothing directly 111 the way of 1ncon1e tax.

~lr. FOL£Y: In other words, they are not getting £200 a year.

::VIr. ALLA::\; In other words, they are noli getting £~_00 p, ye~r. \fe ~ave heard a great deal m tlus Chamber about wage slaves and ~lle down-trodden working n1an. I find that m the, building trades we are paying a little more than double the amount paid in the old land, a:ld the cost of food, taken on th 2 ,whole, IS less here. than i'.' the o.d country. ,The op.ly thmg whiCh 1s lug her here is rent; out ~nat IS no higher here than it is in ..:-\..n1en.ca under similar conditions. And, ev2n as~)unuLg that re .. pectuble workmen's houses of fom or fiye or six room•· in the ole! cou~1tr~ could be ~ot for 5~. bd. or 6s. 6d. or IS. od. a week 1',1 the old country, while the rent here for .<ucn houses would be double the amount-eYen absuming that to be so I an_1 glad our progressive Government 'in sp1te of the pl'Ole~l-·3 o£ the con~er"' n;tive; on the. othyr side, haw· made provi·ion, with the1,r \\ orkm·s' Dwellings Act, by 'Nhich a worKman can build a comfortable home that vv~~l cost hin1 son1et.hing like lOs. a week. W 1th the '·'age"· any man in the building trade get~, h<l caa soon save enough to lcuild a home for lumself on the easy terms offered by tho Govm·nment. · In no other countrv are such conditions offered to the worker. Corr1ing back to the people who pay mcome tax, I have a fe~~ figures to sho"\i\T how things 111ig-ht pan out If we could pass a law making it penal for anyon9 to draw more than £300 a year. I put the limit. at £300, because I thought that if I nut it at a l<ess sum hon. members might object. (Laughter.) If that sum wer · fixed as the limit, Ministers would get nothing be.vond £300; members would have to forego thei1:. stamp allo.wa,nce of £24 a. year; .Judges. la w,Yers, and other profesSIOnal men would a!! be cut down to £300 a vear. . Mr. FoLEY: And others would be lifted up.

l\Ir. ALLAN: I am co'Tiing to that. Th' average income of the pastoralist i• a Htle ~wer £1,500 a Year: and cutt.ing- now" the ?nc:o:rr.-0'> of n'-tstrn~"I~P+s a.nrl others to £;l;fJQ a year, and dividing what they now get above

that amount amongst the 97! per cent. who pay no income tax, it would work out at £5 lls. 4d. per annum. If you take a family of four, that would mean £22 Ss. 4d., or 8s. 6d. a ''eek, which is less than the amount of the old-age pension. I do not think the millennium would come it everyone in this State receiving less than a certain amount -were lifted up in that way. In the course of a few weeks they would all be as threy were be•fore. I do not think we can ever bring about the millennium by legislation, by wages boards, or anything of thaf. kind. The man strong in brain or musclB or initiative must always r-.Jme to the top.

JYir. COLLil\S: Not always.

Mr. ALLAK: As a general rule he does, and no legislation can overcome a natural law. If tho >Yorld is to be improved, it will not he improved b:,~ passing laws in this Chamber arranging for wages boards. There must be an elevation of the character of the ty)Jf' of the race, a change of heart. It i' no use passing drastic legislation for· bidding the man of strong brain or n1.uscle to work more than eight hours .1 day. Let eyery 111s.n who is strong of brain or 1nuscle do his bee.t to help the country along, and at the same time give help to his weaker brother. A great deal has been said about the oo•t of Jiying. Anyone who has given any thoug'1t to the matter knows full well that a.s the cost of production goes up so must tlw cost to tho consumer rise. If a "\Yorker in a y,~holesaJe factory produces an ::uticlP of gPneral consun1ption, of which he himself i· also a consumer, he may get £1 extra for his work bv rne;1ns of legislation and wage' boards, but" when that £1 is added to j~.hc coct.. there are o.lso added the cost of eli' tribution, of credit, of warehonsing, of :~r!iiPg, and so forth. and the consun1er who gets the c·xtra £1 for his labour has to [!a,~ at ln.st £1 5s. more for that article as a eonsun1e1', ancl he is therefore no better off. L;_-.,__st SPturdav r:1orning there appeared in the puhlic Pre'~" a little cablegram ta the cffc ct that owing to industrial strife and nnr"st in tho old country which involved hio:he~- rates of '"ao·ps to \vo:rkmen. and conf.'<'1uPntly greater cZst~ to shipping companies, the frci.rrl1t~ hv V('Ssels trading to Australia ,~·auld l~C 1·~.isCJ by 10 per cOnt. To some pe-rsons "\vho Raw th'l .. t notice it rna~,T not have 111eant anything: it rna.··.T have seemed a thinlY in 'vhich th-ey v·ere in no way co.nccrned. I do not ·grudge the increase of \Yagc'J gntntPd tn toiler . .; in Great Britain and Anst:rttlia_ They are naid miserable w:~gc;:; in th(:: old cou'n-trv. Just fancv railwa:' porters getting 18s., 19s., and £1 ls. a 1ver·1-.:-, and haYing to k~_ 0n a wifr- and fan1ily on t.hat ··xag-e, aftc~r pa.-.:inrr 7s. a "\Yc-ek for rnn ~ T a.m not speaking a!!ainst the increfl,:;:,E" in \.Va•zr' g!antcd to such ';vorkers. On th(~ contrary, T hope their wa.~·es will be sh11 further increasf'd. I simply wish to i!~1J'>cs~ unon hon. n1mnberf; what t.his little l'i' c of 10 pe•· cent. in freights means to Queensland. I hapnen to know somot.hing c•l 8tlt frei"hb. Freip:hts and shipping r1.arw " r.;·~n('l·n.lly are not included in our shttisti< <>l tables. bnt I think they should hP indnclf'd, instoarl of our tables showing onlY the English or Gerrnan 01~ other invoice r-o~t of good:;; at the port of Rhipmont. Since Rahn·da:v hst, I have o;one into this matter inst. to finrl O"t what this little rise of 10 i)er cont. freights means to the consumer in

Mr. J. Allan.l

920 Suppl;y. [ASSEMBLY.]

Queensland, and what we have to pay in Queensland as our contribution towards the uplifting of wages in Great Britain, because tho world is all one great family, and any industrial disturbance or corr1n1otion in the old country will be felt in Queensland. I find that in connection with the business of which I have some knowledge-clothing and boots-the coot of freight on large shipments is a little over 3.} per cent. Imported g.:.·ocerics arc not a large itmn, because large quantitif'' arc JTI3,dc in Australia, but I took Jlw trouble to find out what would be the effcc.t on bUCh goods} and ;_rot r1y figure.., checked b~, one of the leatting _g-rocer.·j in this ci!,y. I line! that tb' freight cnarg·cs for groceries n .ty bo put cloY·, n at about 12} per c~nt. ~ inquired .of a leading ironmong-cr ,., ·1at \\·ere the frc1ght charges on steel and iron goods, and found that 10 per cent. \Vas a n1odetate tstin:ate. I bolieYo that tln~ freig-ht charges on all other goods, except bullion, may h 1; put down at about 5 per cent. Taking the o£5,000,000 of ir:morts at thc-:,e figure''· it will be found that'" -we pa v in freight a sum of £384.024 per ctnnun;. Our 0xports total about £8,188.096, and on those, at, say, 5 per cent., vvc have another £409,404, making a p;rand total on imports and exports of ci:793,424. If we take the inward freig·hts at £384,024, Tee lind that the incn:'lse. of 10 per cent. ll!P ws £38,402, and to that must be added the cost of distribution. \Vo all knovY that tht"'38 goods pass through variOLlS channels before· fhev reach th? constuner, a:z:d anyone 1-vho kno~rs Ynytlnng about busrnc- ;: g-enerally know;:; that before they reach the consuelc~r there have to be :tdclccl to the landed cost certain profits, which n1ay be taken all round at an ayorag·o of one-third of the landed cost, so that on our imports Quecnslanders ha""~,~t~ to pay towards the uplifting of workers in other lands 10 per cont., plus the co.'.t of distribution, '.vhich means £51,202. No ne,,protection or anything of that kind can rid the consunrer of this burden, 'vhich con1e...:. with cru·,hing force on those !east able to bear it.

Mr. FoLEY: '\\1hat about startino· Inanu-factures of our own? o

Mr. ALLAN : Would that make thing'' any better? >\s a business man who know.o something of trade conditions, I can affirm that if it costs £1 to import an article which could be made here at 17s. or lSs .. not manv months elapse before the price of the local article goes up to 19s. lld., so that the c0nsumcr has to pay in either case.

Mr. FOLEY: What about the middleman's profits?

Mr. ALLAN: I have alreadv shown that if salaries were levelled down to a uniform sum of £300, and the amounts above this sum distributed among the community, that would mean about £5 lls. 4d. per head po1· annum, so that in a family of four persons it would amount to less than lOs. a week.

Mr. O'SuLLIVAN: What <tbout the landlords?

Mr. ALLAN: I have included the income from property in the a hove figures. I was very pleased indeed to hear the announce_ ment. of the Treasurer with respect· to certam development works down the Brisbane River. I have been thirty-two vears

[Mr. J. Allan. .

in Qucens}and, and ,during th~t tirne ~h~~'e ,~C11 v :-.)lL[Crfnl dFYE'lOpmcnts Ill the ut~i.J·· ·

['nd I Lr=lieve thB-t during the next th1;:ty yea.r:~ sha 11 have greater develop-

With th8 clcc0r scttle,-,wnt that _i .• on. with the sp1·eading of our railways in all directions nutking ayailable the Yaluable lands of the State, vve may expect great dm-elopment<, and it is only right that we shoulcl take every precauttOn for tho future. In the year 1879 I landed at Sandridcre, !11elbourm·, which is now Port Melbourne. At that time there was onl)' a little jetty running out into the port, and the place was not much to look at. I have Yisited it se•,Teral times since, and I have obscrYed that in those thirty :,'ears Molbourn0 '1as developed la,rgely. They have a fine jett,; at Sandridxe now, but thev have misL•rable 1Nater frontav,·e, misorabl8 "~o;kers' dwellings, and mean Streets; and I have often thought if smneone had lo.oked ahead thirty Ye~.rs ago and properlY planned that part ;,( ::Vle!bourne, what a, different place it would haYc been to-day. I have se0n sonwthing of the de,-elopments that haYe taken place in Gern1any iD connection 1\Tith city planning; I know sornethin ~ of Berlin and ih great suburb-Charlottenber[!:. and I ha.-ye s,eon hov.,r the n1anr;nificent streets of Paris have been plann-d. I have alfo seen ",duJ..t is bPing done~ in other citlcs in regard to correcting the errors of the past, in pulling dmYn their slums and opening up their

streets in the great city of [10 p.m.] Lomlon itsolf. t haYo ·also seen

two or three miles out from the city of Va.ncouYer great developn1ent 1vork going on. 'l'he:y are laying out there at the present ti1ne-and I sa\Y the work in operation--lnagnificcnt streets. ThPy arc cutting down the heavy timber. cl0aring it off, putting down electric 1nains, anrl they are snm:cling in that one district. £250,000 before the,- propose to sell a single block. Now when we come to Sydney, 1-re hear the Sychw;- people speak o'f their beautiful har· hour, as though they had made the harbour, but when Tve look at their nanow streot0, we are not so well satisfied with the forethought there, and we ought to take warning. I would like to look ahead, and instead of resuming 700 acres down therethe leader of the Opposition spokP of the Government resuming 700 acres as a big, rPckless land speculation-that all the~· should ha YO done was to resume a strip 300 feet or 300 yards wide-I forget which. I think it would show far more statesmanship if both the Opposition and the Government join together, throw part~' to the winds, and come out as one party determined that this city of Brisbane, and every city in the State, should in future be built on rational lines-that instead of resuminl' 700 acres of those flats, with mosquito-lJTeeding places, it would ha YO been better if thcv had resumed 7,000 acres; not that we ,;:ant to spend millions of mon0y immediately in building an imperial city, but let us lay our plans broad and deep and wide for the future. I, for one, believe that in thirtv vears this city of Brisbane will have a population of at least 500,000 people. l cannot see anything to hinder it with the great hinter:and and the gr0at country on the Northern Hiwrs. This will never he a city with great flats nine and ten stories high-it will spread out and cover a great area, and I should like very much, in connection with this policy of resuming land, that it

.P"}!Pi'.

·should be plnmwd out with a place for pu;JJic bmldings that would meet tho eye, nnd h t tho Government work to that plan for tho next ten or thirty years. IiaYe n1agnific-:nt strr ct;:; ,vith 111-lgnificent public buildings to meet the c·yc in the foreground, such as Yre sc•J in parts of Europe, and so that in saifin-:· up our nolJle river-th2rc is no river anv,vhere in th·~ \vorld to h4.3at it--wo would be~ proud to say, ·• This is our Brisbane." \V c kno\Y there has been soJno talk of link;ng up tho North and South Coa:~t Railway .~:\ ~~:-( lllS, and I hope before long it \Yill be an accomplished fact. And I hope that the products of the Xorth rnay b taken oYer tlw riYcr to the factories and shops that will spread on the othnr side, and that the cih· will sprc·ad out to Yeronga Pa.rk, and thac not only >>ill the l~ni.-ersity be raised up there, but alorogside that Uni.-ersity thoro "·ill also arise magnificent hospitals with the late·t hygienic ideas. vVe have hr.d an idc:ci in tho air for the last twenty yea :c.:; in the fini" hing of a \f}rtain block of buildings at the corner of Queen and George streets, and I am glad to think that that iJec is about to be c:uricd out, that it will soon be sornething n1oro like an idea. I an1 Ycry glad that tho progi~css of the countrj justifies the completion of that block. In~erjcctions haYo been l':lade about dreamers. It is ideals that make the v:orld -(hear, hear 1)-and I hope the ideals that are sown in this Charnber. on this side or that, will not be like seed sown on stonv ground, but thd they Yvill spring up an~! boar fruit. I, for one. wisl: that this party ssstmn WPrc done away with, and that i;1stead of bc·in"r all for the D<1L·tv \V0 ould unite for the good of the St~te.,

HOKOrTlABLE i\IEII!3ERs: Hear, hear'

ThP I--Iouse resnrned, and the Comrnittee obtained lcaYe to sit agttin to-morro\v.

XAVIGATION ACTS A:.IEND:\lE~'\T BILL.

J.\1n:SSAGE FHOl\1 THE CouxciL-FIRST RF '.DING.

On the motion of the TREASURE'i"" (Hon. \V. H. Br,rnes, B1tlimba), this Bill, received

·by message from the Council, was read a first time, and the second reading was made .an Order of the Day for to-morrow.

'I'he House adjourned at eleven minutes past 10 o'cloch:.

parliamentary debates [hansard] legislative assembly 7

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