Queensland

Parliamentary Debates [Hansard]

Legislative Assembly

FRIDAY, 24 NOVEMBER 1911

Electronic reproduction of original hardcopy

2376 Prickly-pear, Etc., Bill. [ASBEJ\IBLY.] Trades Halt Bill.

FRIDAY, 24 NovEMBER, 1911.

The SPEAKER (Han. W. D. Armstron", Lockyer) tack the chair at half-past 3 o'clock

PAPER.

The following paper, laid on the tahle, was ordered to be printed :-Annual report of the GoYernment Statistician on Vital Statistics.

QUESTION.

UsE OF ST. HELENA AND PEEL IsLANDS.

Mr. WELSBY (Brisbane Yorth) asked the Home Secretary-

" 1. Has the Government at any time had under it- .serious co1nideration th~ remo,Tal of the pr.·· . nt penal establishment from St. :Helena to a nr->re suitable place on the nwJn­land, ard the devotion o.f the isb:::1d to the use of the free pr-.ople of Queensl~nd, whereiJy a large revenue could be obtained·?

" 2. If not, will the Governlnfmt do so, and have delayed the preparation of ally plans of builr'ling"' intended for thf> island, for which instruction .. , may have been given?

" 3. Is it the intention of the Government to use the whole or any other portion of Peel Island other than that at first intended, and userl as :t leper statioil?

" 4. Ha'. there at any time been before the Governn1ent any proposition or intention of the r ... :moval of the leper8 to any other State, and becmning under Commonwealth supervr.::.ion and control?"

The HOME SECRETARY (H9n. J n. Appel, Albert) replied-

" l and 2. The que.:.;tion as to the removal of the penal e;o;tablishment from St. IIelena has rc~.-eiynd the fulh;:t consideratinn, and it has been decided that St. Helena is the most snit­able plae~ Zor a pentl c..:t~blishment.

" ~- Until the n1attPr referred to in Question No. 4 has been decided, I cannot s._1y.

" 4. The matter is no"\Y under consideration."

SUSPEKSIO::\' OF STANDING ORDERS.

On the motion' of the PREMIER (Hon. D. F. Denham, Oxley) it was formally rf'so!vf'd-

" 1'hat f'1 n1nch o ... the Standing Orders re-1 'ctiJ:g to private Bills l>e suspc nd"d as would otherwice preYc~lt the introduction of a Bill to iiH reasq tb~ borrowing pow•_'l , of the trustees of the Trades and Labmn· Hall in Bri~·bane as a public Bill; al~o the pas~iing oi the Bill to f n ,.ble the trustees of an allotlnent of Ltnd in the 1 tty of Bris~:ane. granted for the 7t1rpose of a Friendl:y f:!Jcietieu' I-Io ;pital, to rnortgage the ,qam and to apply the principal ·.urn raL-;ed by nlort£ .,,?;; tfnvards the coAt of building a Fri<.:.nclly 2_•ciLties' H ;.spital on the :-1.me, and for other purpo":-;, aR brought frmn the Legislative Com r il, c ·. a publi~ Bill."

TRADES AND LABOUR HALL MORT­GAGE AND LEASES ACT AJUEND­:\lENT BILL.

INITIATION.

OL tho motion of the PREJ\IIER, it was formally resolved-

- " That the lious.: will, at its next sitting, rc·' t1lvc. its~lf into a f1ommittee of the Whole to cow id,. r of the iesirablenec· of introducing a Bill to inc:t', .r .. e the borrowing powers of the tru' t"'S of the Trades and Labour Hall In BrisL:.tne."

Suppl;IJ. [24 KovE1IBER.] Suppf;IJ. 2377

BELMONT TRA:.\IW A Y LOANS VALIDATION BILL.

INITIATI0:-1.

On the motion of the TREASURER (Hon. IV. H. Barn<ce, Bulih ba), it was fmmally eesolved-

" That the Houee will, at its next sitting, :resolve itself into a Con1rnittee of the \Vhole to con:)ider of tbe desirableness of introducing a Bill to validate certain advanr" by the Treasurer by way of loans to the Belmont Shire Council for the construttion of the Belmont Tramway.''

LEASES TO ALIENS RESTRICTION BILL.

INITIATION.

On the motion of the PREMIER, it V\as formally re;olved-

" That the House ;viii, at its next sitting, re~olve it,...:elf into H Cornrnittee of the \.Vhole to c:onsider of. the dcsira.blew-·ss of introducing .a Btll to re•,trtet the lt..tsmg of lands to aliens. >ll

DAIRY PRODUCE ACT Al\lE:NDMENT BILL.

INITIATION

On the motion of the PRE:\IIER, it was formally resolved-

" That the House will, at its next sitting, resolve Itself mto a Committee of the Whole to e:nsider of. thP desirablenes~; of introducing a Brll to a boll ''h fe( payable on tl~'i" r,, gl; tra­ji~S4.~~ dairies under tbe Dairy Produce Act of

SUPPLY.

RESUMPTION OF COMMITTEE-TWELFTH ALLOTTED DAY

(Mr. J. Stodart, Logan, in the chair.)

DEPART>rENT OF JUSTICE-ClJIEF OFFICE­POSTPONEMENT OF VOTE.

Question-That £7,640 be granted tor ·" Chief Office" -stated.

* The PRE:.\IIER: As the · Secretary for Public Lands, Hon. E. H. 1\Iacartne' who had taken charge of the Estimates f~r the Department of Justice, is unab],e to be .prf'sent to-day, under Standing Order 312, h:; (:Yir. Denham) asked for the postpone­ment of the consideration of the Estimates of the department; and as he was not quite sure the \Vot1ks Estimates "'ould take the whole o£ the day, he mov-ed that the con­sider"~tion of tho Department of J ustiv.· oo ·deferr'd until after ihP consideration of tho II on1e Seen: tars's Estimates.

:Ylr. LE?\':";ON (H<rbert) said that he had no objection to the postponemont of the Ectimates of the Department of J usti~e.

Que <tio·1 put and passed.

DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC ·\VORKS.

DEPARTMENT.

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC WORKS {Hon. W. H. Barnes, Bulimba) moved that £19,136 be grantPd for salaries for the De­partment of Public \Yorks. That "as an increase over the vote for last year of £1,006. lie understood that there were some hon. .members who were anxious to get as many

details as pos,iblco. The hon. member for Flinders was narticularlv anxious to have a return before- the Estin~atc-' came on, and, with the view of giving as much infor_mation as po>c·· .. ible, he (Mr. Barnes) would gtve the various t:isos in salary which appeared on the Estimates. There was an increase in the number of officers from s:xty-six to sixty­nine, and tho increa<;~ s wore as follovi.~S :­Mr. Pvc, £10; Mr. Irving, £10; Mr. Ewart, · £20; ::Vlr. Hannington, £10; Mr. Quinn, £10; Mr. Stoodly, £10; 1:1r. Stan­ky, £10; Mr. Cvult,, £20; Mr. Smtth, £10; 1\Ir. Hutton, £10; Mr. Hendy, £10; Mr. Foster, £10; Mr. Lodge, £10.

::'lfr. MAY: He has left the servia~.

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC WORKS: The hon. member was quite right. Unfor­tunat<"ly, Mr. Lodgo had left the service.

Mr. MAY: He is a very good officer, and he is getting £6 a weGk where he is.

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC WORKS: l\lr. Lodge was an eX<"''llont officer. They could not blame any man for leaving to bdter himself.

Mr. MAY: Certainly; only it shows that good officers are not appreciated here.

The SECRET \RY FOR PUBLIC WORKS: JHr. Brown was getting an increase of £10; ~\1r. McKee, £10; Mr. Hook, £20; Mr. ::\IcHugh, £10; Miss Brennan, £10; Mr. Nommensen, £10; Mr. Wood, £10; !11r. Dinsdale, £10; Mr. Coxen, £15; Mr.. Mor­ton, £10; Mr. Boyd, £10; Mr. Thompson, £10; Mr. L:, ons, £10; Miss Cardno, £10; Mr. Hogan, £10; Me,srs. Draney, Williams, Cantrell, Hoare, Osbaldiston, Keating, and McLeod, £10 each; :Yir. Carmody, £20. :lif_r. Carmody was formerly senior me.s·<c•1ger m the depaTtment. Ile had been there for a number of YPars, and had proved himself a very capable officer. It was his (Mr. Barnes's) desire to assist those occupyi:rg what might be considered the more memal nositions in the son·icc, and Mr. Carmody had bPPll promoted since the Estimates were framed to another position in thP service. Mr. Butler was rec<eiving an increase of £10, and Me<.'.rs. l\fcKeering and :i\foffatt were recei\·ing similar increases. 111essrs. Dickson, Cain, Hanlon, Rennison, and Hicks, night ·vatchn1·~n, 1-vero each receiving increases of £6: and th<' following lift attendants \vera Pach receiving increases of £10 :-Dyne, Cogzell, Scott. Draper, Lucid.'-, and Perki~s, and :!\I iss Twigg was also ren< iving an 111-creaso of £6. \Yhilst some of the profes­sional staff were set down for increases of £10, that did not repre'c-nt the actual in­ncc .. os they \rerc recE'iving. Owing to the rf"'lignatjons which had tak-n nlace '<)mo of th< ,;., wnf' actually getting inc:i·,. "":' of .C30. In anticination of some dtscusown that mif)tt talcc place, hg might '":V that the de­part,m•-nt recc·vnised that it had some very <'xc."llent oficer". As had b0cn remarked by th0 hon. member for Flinder'·, they had lost one of the, ir best officers, who had gone else­"· here. Th,t had kd the :&Iini.,+er to con­s.idcr whether the ad, ances that had boen madP were amnle. He could not )1lake any definite promisE'. but bY the close of the vee.r, provided the finances warranted it, it inight b,, po"ible to giYo them a littl<>. more. It vcas highly desir;~ble-especially. m the professional branch<>s of the servwo-that men should b0 contented.

Mr. PETRIE : They are very poorly paid .

Han. W.H. Barnc.s-.]

2378 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC WORKS: He could aFsure the hon. mcmbec·, with his big generous heart, that the Minister was anxious to do a fair thing.

Mr .. LE::\'J\'OC\1 called the Minister's atten­tion to a misprint. Last year there w0re two typists down at £100 ner annum each. This year there was only one, and the salary was represented by a single cipher. The additions show<'d that the •oalan >us £1(}, but the ne '·:as 'only a "0" there. He was glad to learn that the dcpartmDnt was recognising that the profe· oional staff should be well paid. The hon. memh>r for Flinders had called attention to the fact that some good men \Yr're leaving the serYico. It vYas always a pit..- when prof,,sional men left tho State because their services were not properly ap­preciat.•d her• , but, judging b:- lho assur­ance of the Minister, an effort would be made to recognise their ser.-it>'S later on. There were five lift attendants, some of them receiving salarin of £70 and £60.

The SECRETARY FOR PuBLIC \YORKS: Thev arc only young people. "

Mr. LE~KON: That we'i what he we ... going to ask. If they were grown men, the salaries were not big enough.

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC \VORKR: No grown man is getting £70 a ypar, and there have been promotions this week with regard to the lift attendants.

Mr. LENNON: He noticrd that in the next .vote there were items of £1,300 for the sanitation of public buildings in the metro· polihm district, and £3,200 :for cleaning public buildings in the same district. He was well a•.,are that cloaning nublic build­ings in tho metropolitan area ;,," s a costly matter, and could not be ex:JPctcd to be a very prominent feature in connection with buildings in the country districts ; but he would ask whether sanitation was not as necessary in the country districts a, in the metropolitan district.

The SECRETARY IOR PUBLIC 'VORKS: Sanita-tion goes throughout the whole State. ,

)/[r. LE::\INON: Did it all come out of that vote?

The Sn:~RETARY FOR PuBLIC \YORKS: At any rate, it is provided for.

Mr. LENNON : It was not specifically provided for in that item, und he had not discovered any special vote for the sani­tation of buildings in the country districtF·, If it was there, he would be glad if the Minister would point it out. He noticed that courthouses. police buildings, and additions showed an incre'ls<' of £4,000. In travdling through the North he noticed a sad want of attention in som0 of tho police court buildings, more particulerly at Ingham, where they had an old shanty which was erected twenty-five years ago. Taking into account the wants of the district, and com­pared with most of the pri.-ate houses and business premises there, the courthous•e was the most unsightly and most disreputable looking building in the town. He asked the Minister to note that it deserved some attention. The Chamber of Commerce and the Hinchinbrook Shire Council had already made prett~· strong representations as to the necessity for getting a better courthouse at Ingham than they had got at present. If tho ;l;linistcr him eel£ visit •d Ingham. and a deputation waited on him, he would give his promise at once for a new courthouse building. The Hon.\ the Minister, however,

[lion. W. H. Barnes.

could accept his assurance that the police· court at Ingham was no better than he had desc;·ibed, and he hoped the hon. gentle­man would call for a report on it. With regard to the police court at Inni<fail, appli­cation had been made to got a new court there. Certain improvemcnb which had been suggested were since . n1ade, and . he prec.umcd that they met wrth the rcqt:rre­mcnts, a he had not heard any complamts, but he hoped the ~1inist"··r would make inquiries ido thE' matter. He noticed that in "School Buildings, Additions, etc.," there was an in0rpm p, 1IP had son1c correspond­ence with the Edue,tion Department and ron"' ('1 Ratio-.lf:. \vith tho ~linirtcr in regard to the :.chools at Trebonne and Innisfail, which wanted some attention. The Minister for· Public Instruction informed him that there was no money available, as all the money had been. appropriated, and that meant that there V· ao no possibility at present of g:et­ting so1nc net"2'';sarv improven,;.'3nt:::; earned out there. The' Go;'ernment could not find £100 to mak·c· improvements to cchools, but thE'v h11d brought down five railways a week ago, and had four more to ,,o:ne, and they would have to find the mom•y to build them. They could spend money in catching votes. bv building railways, and some of them were f"Jlitic<l railways.

Th0 SECRETARY FOR PrBLIC \VoRKS: Don't forgPt that the vote for school building' ha' b.cca increa:.cd bv £10,000.

3.1r. LENNON: Tho works he referred to· 'voro prc·s~jingly ncces~ary, and that. ":"as why he called the attention of the ::\l[rmst<'r to them.

Thf' SECTETARY FOR PuBLIC \VORK'·: You will be pleased to know that I refused assi.stance to some in my uwn electorate.

Mr. LEJ\'1\0N: That would be against the !!'rain of the Minister, ec.pecially as the c·lections wf'rc clo'c at hand. (Laughter.) He admitted that his district was not singu­hr in thf' mattPr of requiring impro.-emcnts to the r~ho~ls, as a great n;an0' other di~­ti·icts were in the same prediCament. but rt was only right that he should bring the matter bf'fore the Minister, so that when he relaxed his grip on the purse strings he would be ,,ble to do somPthini': in th<> inter­Psts of nrirnarv education. Vlith regard to· the inspPction ·of machinery, h~ _woul4 like to know if there was an amendmg Act on the stocks?

.The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC 'VORKS: Yes. J\Ir. THEODORE: 1\TP will not get it until'

we get a Labour Government next year.

Mr. LENNON: If there ·was going to be· a Bill introduced this SPSiion, there were wme desirable amendments that he would like to discuss with the ::\1inistcr before he introduced it.

Th<.' SECRETARY FOR PuBLIC \'\"ORKS: I shaH be pleased to discuss them with the hon. gentleman.

Mr. LENNON: He wa'S glad to have that assurance, as he had a number of matters· to refe,· to in connection with that depart­ment, but would not delay the Committee

·with them, but he would take ad\ antage of the Minister's willingness to discuss several desirable amendments with him. There were­labour agents and inspectors stationed at Bundaberg, Townsville, Charters Towers, Mackay, Rockhampton, Toowoomba, Gym­pie, and Maryborough, and they received:

Supply. [24 NovEMBER.] 2379

various salari<-;, ranging from £160 to £250. \Vas tlv work at Toowoomba so onerous that the man thoro ebould receive more salary than the man at Rockhampton, Townsville, and Charters To•xers?

Tho SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC \YORKS: 'I'he Toowoomba inspector is the senior officer, and he has be2n t\F nt.~ vcars in the service. The Rockhampton man' ha$ only been in tho serviCe four ~rears.

:Ylr. LE~NON: It occurred to him that it might have had something to do with tho Darling- Downs bunch.

The SECllETARY FOR Pt'BLIC \YoRKS: Oh, no!

:i'vlr. LENNON: It was sn.tisfactory to get that assurancP·, He noticed an item for "Con. veyance of La.bour, Railwa:: and Steamer F'ares," uncle~ t~e heading _of "Conting~ncics." Could the l'dmrster explam why new arrivals mto Queen,,]and 'Vere taken by the hand by tho Railway Department and the :Factories and Shops Departmen1 and wore conv,·vod fre J right from Brisbane to \Valla] or to ·the northernmost part of the State, while the man who had borne the heat and burden of the day in Q,ueensland, if he happened to find himself in Brisbane and wanted to '"'' to, work :ct Vv allal or Atherton or Lonp:ea,ch or anywhere else, would not be provided with a free pass, as the new arrival from the old land was provided. It was a matter which app€aled to him particularly, because, in the generosity of his nature, he gave a guarantee to pay the fan'"' of three men who were stranded in Brisbane and desir€cl to go to Dalby to work on the railway line in that district. He must admit that though he was ,egally and morally liable to pay the £2 15s., the amount of the fares, the Minister for Railways treated him with v<Jrv great consideration in the matter. and to~k over the cost on behalf of the Rail wa v Depart­ment. He desired to thank the ho'n. gentle-

man for that. What he wanted [4 p.m.] the Minister for Works to do was

to inform' him if there was any reason why a man who had been here for twenty~five or thirty years, and who found himself stranded in Brisbane, and de~ sired to go to some other part of the State for the purpose of getting work on a railway as a navvy, should be told, when he asked to be conveyed there, that it could not be done, while new arrivals of ye;,terday were taken in hand by the Government.

The bell indicated that the hon member's time had expired. ·

1\lr. LEN~ ON: He would take another frve minutes, or so much of it as might be neces­sary. That seemed to him a v,ery invidious distinction to draw. Of course he admitted that care should be exercised in conveying men hither and thither over the railway.

The SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS: There has been a great deal o~ fraud in that connection.

Mr. LENNON: He was just stating that precaution should be taken 'to see that they fulfilled their obligations, and that th£y were put in charge of an officer of the department, and placed on the work. He should be glad if the Minister would give him any good reason why such an invidious distinction was drawn between the new arrival and the man who had clone good service to the State in days gone by.

Mr. PETRIE, who on risinf; was greet~cl with Opposition "Hear, hears!" said he must congratulate the Under Secretary on the very excellent report he had issued, and on the

reports of the Chief Inspector oJ Machinery and Inspector of Labour. While he was pkased to notice that a grco.t many increases had been given to the professional and clerical staffs. h, felt that he should draw the attention of the Minister and the Under Secretary to the fact that some of the in­spectors of works had not be<On fairly treated. H<' did not blame the Under Secretary or the ::\Iinister for this, but thought there must be some misunderstanding with regard to th<' matter. For instance, Mr. Jack, who had now been in the service for twenty-three ycu.rs, was practically in a ·worse position, as. far as salary was concerned, than he was when he joined the service. A few years ago that offwer's salary was £250, with. an allowance of £50 in lieu of quarter~, makmg a total of £300; ancf now his salary was only £280 per annum. That seemed to be a rise backv: n·cl ,, o ,. a clisrating.

:Nlr. FoLEY: An Iri·,hman's rise.

C.lr. PETRIE: Yes; an Irishman's rise. :Mr. Jack had received onlv two incre:t3CS since he joined the service, one of £20 and another of £10. There were other inspectors who were in a so,mewhat similar position. The Government were at the present time buildinR a new Central Technical College, which would probably cost £70,000 before it wa~ _finished, and th" inspector who was supervrsmg that work received £280 a year. That meant that the cost of supervision was somc1vhere about ~ per cent. Some of the inspectors who had be•m onlv a few years in the servia~ were better off than some who had been In the department for many years. He might men­tion Inspector ::\icSwaine as one of those who had not been as well tree1ted as he ought to be. When o.fficers were treated in that way it was no wonder that some of them left the service. There were sev·cn inspectors at £280 year, one at £270, three at £260, and one at £210. Ther.e wore two draftsmen at £280 per annum each, three at £240, one at £230, two at £220, one at £200. one at £180, one at £170, one at £160, and one at £110. Some of the officers in the lower grades h'!d risen very much quicker than the men m the hicrher gracl•3S. :Mr. Jack and some others had a a promise from the Minister th_at he would consicl"r their car"es when the Estimates were b•·ing framed. He held that those officers wou'ld not be treated in private employ in the same way as they had been treate~ !n the Government service. He hoped the Mmrs­ter would draw the Under Secretarv's atten~ tion to this matter, and give increases to those who were entitled to increases. An hon. member asked him where did these officers live, and sugp:e3tecl that probably that had somethin.•; to do with the matter. (Laughter.) He did not think that a member, especially a member on that side of the House. should put such thoug-hts into his mind. Probably some of them lived in ·woo!loongabba. One of them lived in Toombul, and there were some who lived outside his .-lectorate, but he dicl not mentio.n this matter because th_e officers concerned were associated with hrs e].~ctorate. Another matter he should like to refer to was that of the Superintendent ~f Lnbour in Brisbane. He noticed that hrs salary wa< the same as last year.

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC \VORKS: No.

:Mr. PRTRIF~: It was £240 last yDar. and it was £240 this year. He would like ta know if that officer was ;yfr. Towmend. Ho was ·an old sPrv<mt and hE' >PLS wondering wheth0,. his length' of servi<'c did not re· quire come consideration. He had nothing

JI r. Petr~·e.]

2380 8upplg .• ~ASSE:MBLY.J Supply.

m01·" to say, but he trusted that the Minister would inquire into the matters he had brought up, and so·" that bomething was <Clone for the men he had rc'erred to.

Mr. J.IAY (Pl.'"dus): He might go on the sarne lines as the hon. rrle!l..._bor for Too1nbul, and say at the very outset that the public :cervants of whom he ~>reposed to spf'ak wen; not resid(nt in his doctorate. 1-IG wo·.lld like to draw athmtion to one little matter in '' hich tho d<>partment worn approuch<:i by tlw c:Jficer· of the profec'lional staff. The letter read as follows :-

" Sir,-\Ve, the undersigned infr;,_~ctors of vtorkFj Pu1:;lic Works Department, de'_,ire to bring under the notice of the Public Service Beard the amount of overtin1e worked by us .during the last fevr years without remun~.:-ra­

tion. " Owing to the large increase of, building,_;

and oth~'l' ''arks in the department, it has been necer,.:;;ary for inspechlrs to work hours daily outside prescribed office hour-~., including full Saturdays and Sundays, and we claim that we •,hould be trc a ted in a similar way to other officerc of the department, who, when working ov<'l'tim~::, an: paid at rates laid down by the Publk Servic,· Board. The fact that inspectors o.hould be the only officers ,.ingled out for non­payment ;;_ppears to us unrea~Dnable, consider­ing that many of us are compelh:d to work in our offices on Saturdays and Sundays to keep the departmental work up to date.

" In submitting our claim, we respectfully ·desire also to point out to the board that, apart from the actual inspection or supervision of works, our duties are of an advisory nature to the department, in which the greater part of our tin1c is ocrupi ed in o~'Jtaining necessary information and preparing voluminous reports and estimate,, for projected works, the subject­matter and recon1n1endations of which are usually adopted, inyolving large expenditure, thus making our positions responsibl.:: and 'Onerous.

"Hoping the board will favourably consider thk a"71plication for granting overtiine, whicl1 we respectfully claint we are justly entitkd to along with oth'T officers of the spryice.

"\Ve have, etc., "I~sPEcTons O!' \Vo:r:Ks.

"The Se 'retary, Public Service Board, Brisbane."

'rhe reply to his letter was as under-,, Ref,orring to the petition Birrned by the

inspect-jrs of works, a,--king for the payment of 0vertin1e while errrployed on offie:J.l l.Ju inf'L:i outsid,_: prescribed offire hour , I have t·l inform you that the communicnCon was f1rwar(:1!d on to th.~ Public Service Board, 311d a re!)ly ]1, ..; beu1 received to the ._·ifect that no action be taken in the n1attfr."

H< did not think that that was a fair thing. Th<cy believed in eight hours a d:ty, no matt-er in what department it might be, for men or women. That should be utab­J.ished throughont the whole of the snrvice. When the ins1JPctor was making inquiries about this, he wanted to know what the rer-ular hours wcr·e that he shoald give his scrvioes to the department, and the .,nswer 11ra•.: "'Your hours are bYcnt,,~four hours ,a dJy." If that was not pretty 'strong, he did not know what was.

The SECRETARY FOR PcBLIC VVORKS: Can you tell me who gave that ans>ver?

Mr. :\!LAY: He would not t<'lk the :\!Iiniscer officially; ho would tell l1im priv <telv; he was not _going- to inculpate .any man: He would giVe the name on the hon. gentle­man's honour that he would not reveal it; -otherwise, until h,. had the ]nave of the party, he woukl not do so.

[Jf r. Petrie.

Tho SECRETARY FOR PcBLIC VVORKS: I may tc:l "'~".JU, thvn, that I do not believe the .,tate­mont.

::vir. HARDACRE: You must take the word of the hon. membnr.

'I:1e SECRETARY FOR PuBLIC \YORKS : I am taking his word, but I do not bc·lieve the statement.

Mr. MAY: In Xew South Wales the' had hat wore oal:ed district architect,, In Queensland t!Hl inspedors of works Y· ere both inspedors of works and disirid in­S'pr-ctors.

The SECRETARY FOR PuBI,IC \YORKS: vVe pay a higher rate than any other State for inspecting the works.

:\!1r. J.'IA Y: Tlwse inspectors had to go through even-thing. Everything in the ra\1· way service was inspect0d by inspectors m our Railway Department, and it was only right it should be. The:;' had to be men who knew not only about railway work, architecture and other things, but they had to know e~ery pocsiblc thing which could come under a \Vorks Department. Then, again as rderred to by the hon. member for Toom'bul the cost of the Central Technical Collnge ~as about £75,000, and the inspection fm: two years was £560. That was about seven-eighths per cent. of th·•. cost of cor;­"truction. \Vhere would they nnd an archi­tect who would go and work at the rate of seven-eighths per cent. ? These men were not paid sufficient remuneration. Tho hon. member for Toombul had mentioned •Overal nameo, but he (Mr. ::\1ay) war, not going to n1ention names. There 1:ere n1en who had been in the s8rvice since 1883, 1884, 1888, 1890 and so on. IIere "\\a9 one man v.ho had' only br c·n there a short time-he could mention that name, because he was out of tho mvicc·, and he could do him no harm­that was :\!Ir. E. H. E. Lodge, a very clever drafhmt<n, and much appn,·iated in ~he department, but beeanse he was not get~mg thE' rr'nuneration for the work he was domg, and did not get the rise he anticipated. he natm·alh- ••·ent to a bctt· r market, and he was quite jmtified. Tho Stat<• lost the sRr­vic .• -s of a verv valuable man. He went to Svdnev. and 'wo,, th ·re only a couple of days .;:.hen h" got. a job at _£6 a. week. A man vvas snpt'loscd to recervA hrgher pay the fan her h.· went 2\J orth, < n account of H'o cost of living and otber co:.1siderations; but this man l~ft £240 a y0ar in the Korth and got £6 a week in the South.

The ~'lCCRET.\RY FOR PrBLIC iVO'tKS: Tho man vou rd. r ~" w,;s in the department c 'ght~en months, o.nd during that time got a ri.v of £30.

::'!Ir. J.'IA Y said he w.:s pleased to hear th•>.t. The man ;.tarted with £210 a year, and got up :} £240 ; but e_vPn _then. _his salary '''as not con1mcn:..·mrate \VJ..:h h1s ab1hty. Som~ of the inspectors were not treated in a comn1on-s,~n,r· or just manne_r; and he thought there should be a certain allowance for oYerti1ne. e·;per-1aJl;~ \Yhon th~:::re \VC're n.o blaclr marks again1t thom. :"faturally, If thcv had black marks a.gain,.t them, thev must be dealt with ar.,~ordinglc-; but whe·l they "~rrc pure, nnadultor;..Lted "vhif,, :tngels, the."·: should receive' riFe·~ ac"ording to the time they had been in thE service.

HoN. R. PHILP (To;,·nsville) said hn might sympathise with some of tho offi~ers working in such places as Hughenden, Rwh-

Suppl.IJ. [24, NOVEMBER.] Supply.

mond, or Cloncurr~, ; but he did not think the man who rov from £210 to £240 in Brisbane in eighteen months had much to co'Jplain about.

l\Ir. LExxox: Tho point is that good men should be retained.

II ox. R. PHILP: T!. -·til v;·ere plon\y of £Ood men in tlw \Vodm Departcnont. \Vhat he complained of vcas the amount of money the Gm·ernment prO]coc.~d spending this year in B1·isbm1e. He thought it wa·; far t,0 r:mch: and he thou'>ht it was unfortunate that. the Govenunent should be going in for "' much work at a time when private people found it so difficult to b' t timber and labour. He thought the G0v• ·rnment should rec<ervo their expenditure in this diroc~ion till times were bad.

Mr. D. HDXTI'R: That is what the Federal Government arc doing.

Hox. R. PHILP: Tho Govern•nco1t were ,O"oing to spend fLlething like £230,000 on buildings and repair-.-£139,0()0 from rev­enue and £94,000 from loan; but, instead of crc·.-ting a boom in this way, the Govern­nwnt should keep a lot of their works 1:. wk. Th~y wanted to keep peoplo in the State· but when there was no \York for them the~~ would go -.wa~-. In good times there wa·s plPnt.'- of work ontoide tho Govnnment; and the GovE'''nment should not be nwnopo­lising evuythin£: at the present timP. Th,"re was a large amount down for technical coUe~e buildings, but he was informed the prese~t Central 'Dechnical College was not full. There wa_ a good deal of extravaganc-e in connec­tiPn with this estimate for buildings, and ht~ hoped the Committee would assist him in reducing the vote.

J\ir. LEN:, oN: Do :vou object to tho Go­ye,_'~:mcnt Printing Office'?

Hox. R. PHILP thought it was a mistake­to go in for that Llrge buildin9;. Look at the rtuff printed there and sent to this House and wasted! A lot of it vo~~& not \"c'l!"+t'd by mc~: ... bcrs; and a lot of the bcau­tifullc.- embc·llie~.ed reports sent round er0 not nquircd.

Mr. RYLAXD: \Vhat about tho monev spent on " Fern berg"?

Ho}l. R. PHILP: He did not agree with the expenditure on the new Government House. "Fern berg'' would do very well for a while. Government. buildings got painted every second year; but if he could paint his house evor3 five· ,-ears he was satisfied. I-I" thought ext::_·a VC' gar~ T in a GovE'rninf':lt V\~D- 8 a bad thing for the State, as it set a bad example to the people. In every newspaper they read tl1ey ,aw tenders call<ed for Go­vernment work; and eYen if there wa· onlv one tender put in, it was accepted, 'and th-;, work "as procepdcd with. It was a matter of complaint that there wa" not sufficient home accommodation for people; and there Wc1S not likely to be as long as the Govern­ment continued to sp,•nd mone:v on buildings as they were doing now. He' hoped a con­siderable reduction would be made in t.hr· vote.

Mr. WINSTA:l'\LEY ((!Jzartqrs Towers) said he would like some information from thr· Minister with regard to the amount of £900 for "Temporary Assistance." That was a fairly large amount for temporary assistance

and it would be valuable infonna~ [4.30 p.m.] tion to know how tho amount

was spent. Then he noticed that there was an amount of £182 down for an

horologist, and yet in some of the roomq d1o ch_,.__.i;:.s V1.0re sH_,pped as often aS they \Yerc going. If they p11id £182 a year for that ·-. ork, sc ,ne:..odv ought to see that the work v~ as clone. It c~cr(ainly hacl not be0n done in a "i; ~i -"factorv manner ill the past. Some~ thing had be'en 'aid by previous speakers in ref.- ren ._, to g<·ncral repairs and painting. 'fhcr£ \Vas an incrca5e in that vote this year of .£7,500, :J.nd there· was also a large c,mount for new buildings~ v .. 7 hilc certain necessar,r repairs and paintin~ in connection vvith schools could not be carried out at the present time. It seemed to him a p<mny-wif··•-and­pound-foolish policy to spend money on new buildings and ailow P'· sent buildings to go to rack aEd ruin for the w1mt of a coat of paint. Everybody knevv that in a climate like that of No.rth Queensland, notl].ing else ruined a 1 uilding so quickly as the ·want of paint.

The SECRET.\RY FOR PUBLIC \V m:KS : There has been rnor,.,., rnoncy spent on schools in ='J orthcrn Queensland than in any other part of thr State.

Mr. WI:-TSTAXLEY: Painting and that kind Of thing \V,''S 1nuch n1oro necc'"'3ary in Xorthn-n Queensland than in the South, and if a building was allowed to go two or three yc.us vdthout painting, it ver_} soon '\Vf'nt to t'Uin, because in the sun1n1or time the timber got exceedingly dry, and then when the wet Beason r'1me the building got thoroughly soaked with rain for two or three monthe. an;l tlu:-t was 1nuch 1nore detriltH:ntal than if the buildinc 'iaS wet all the vcar ronnel. He certainly thought those small' buildings should be kept in good repair and should be well looked after. He noticed an item of £750 for the Inebriates' Institution at Peel Island. It was t\ mistak, to spend more money at that ph:cc. He did not know what the in­scitution '"·as doing in the mat<er of r·.·form­ing inebriates, but it vn_Fl certainly in the· wrong place, and if th: institution as to 1 .. , lu·1Jt on, the money ought to be spent son1l­where el:-.e. That £750 could very wrll be saved. In reference to inspectors, he no­ticed that the in·pector at Charters Towers in previons years received a salary of £200 a .' e .. u, while this year he was only down for £160.

The SECEETARY FOR PUBLIC \Yo.EKS: It is a ncvv appointrnent-a junior officPr.

Mr. WINSTANLEY: That might be, but it was a very strange thing that a junior officer should be sent to a place like Charters Towers, which wa3 one of the most important places in the State.

The RECRETARY FOR PuBLIC ·woRKS: You must admit that the offir·er in Charters Tower'· is doing splendid work.

Mr. WINST~\NLEY: That was exactly his argument. Thcre was a consichrable amount of comphint in ronnedion with the n1an \vho received .£200 a year, as h; was n0t do inc; all he ought to do, and another ma11 had been apnointed, who had to do the work, and was doing it in satisfactory manner. He was a most energetic and most pains­taking officer, and it did seem a strange thing· that that office1· rhould be paid £40 a year loss than was previously paid when the work was not well done. He hopnd that officer would not have to work ver.' long at his pu~­sent salary. The deputy l~·ader of the Opposi. tion had been much more fortunate than f.ome hon. members in the matter of guaranteeing fares in connection with men seeking work,

Mr. Winstanley.]

2382 Suppl,IJ. [ASSEMBLY.] Suppf;y.

when the department would not undertake to send them to where work was obtainable. It did seem a strange thing that the Go­vernment should bring men thousands of miles, and then send them any distance to whore the}· could get work, while men who were here could not go 10 or 12 miles unless someone guaranteed their railway fares. He {Mr. Winstanley) had guaranteed the fares of several men, and he thought it would only have been fair, if those fares were not paid, that he should have been notified. As a matter of fact, they were allowed to go on for twelve months, and then he got a list of all the fares he had guaranteed.

The SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS: And no in­terest charged.

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC WORKS: It is ex­tended credit.

Mr. WINSTANLEY said it was extended credit that was not required. It was unfair and unjust, and very unbusiness-likc, and, as a matter of fact, the Railway Department was to be blamed in some instanco> for not collecting the feres. Tho men . ., ere not asked for the fares, and, of course, if the department said nothing, it was not likely that the men would say anything. In one or two instance' in which he had guaranhed the fares and they had not boon paid, he had pointed out to the mnn that if the;- did not pa:;· the fares he (l'dr. Winstanley) would have to do so, and they straight away paid up. If no notifi·'.ation was sent in t\vo or thrC!e months, one took it for granted that the fares had been paid, and in some instances the:,' had been paid, and It cm:tJjnlc· d1d nolo seem businec,-like to allow th·; fare~ to stand twelve months :mel then for meinbers to be saddled with all the fare" they had guaran­teed, or run the risk of something consider­ably worse.

Mr. BOOKER (Mm·yborough) said there vras ·a great deal in what th,; hon. nwmber for Townsville said in conn<: :t.i•}ll with the very large expenditure; but, ~""~"ltea th-{'y cumo "to look into the items, it did not appear so serious. For ins!anoc, out o~ the total ex­penditure of £139,000, £35,000 \hiS for school buildings, and no expenditure was 'mor-e warranted than in the direction ol providing school .ace.')mmodation in the country dis­tricts. He knew quite a number of new centres where schoob were absolutely neces­sary at once, becau··e the children wei:e losing the best part of their lives without receiving the benefits of education. The item of £12,000 for "Courthouses, Police Buildings, and Additions" might have been judiriously reduced, .and the difference addf·d to the vote for "School Buildings." The same remark applied to the item of £20,000 for "General Repairs, Paintin;r, Improvements, and Incidentals." That was a very big item for mattcrq of that nature. An item about which he would likB to have some informa­t.ion was that of £1,200 for a dairy at Gatton College. There must be something very elaborabe about the building if it requimd .an expenditure of £1,200, and it appeared to him that instruct.ion could be imparted just as effectively in a building costing half that amount. The only other thing that he wished to speak about was the expenditure on an elaborate Government House in Vic­toria P<Irk. This was not the first time he had referred to the .matter. Under the con­ditions which prevailed now, :and were likelv to prevail in the future, they had no right

[.ilfr. Win.Ytan?ey.

to put up a Government House which would cost from £30,000 to £50,000 before it •:m.s properly equipped. ·when they were pay~ng their Governors the salary that was bemg paid to their present respectNl Governor, ~t >vas 'Jlacino- them in .a very false and delr­cate llO&iti~;,. The e:1lary J:?ight be sufficient in ·'- Government House w1th the >aooommo­dation there. was at " Fern berg," but in a large and .elaborately appointed Government House, such as was apparently being built, the Governor would have to spend a very great dE a! of his salary in entertaining and in the upkeep of Government House. "Fern­berg" was ample as "'- home for .their Go­vernors. He took 1t that thmr future Gov-ernors would not be .drawn from the ,-.ich mon of Great Britain, and it was not right to ask them to incur any expense in connf'ction with the upkPep of Government House and in enkrtaining; and, if they h<Id no right to do that, they had. no right to spend .a large oum of mane:' on what 'might be termed an ornamental Government I-IDn~e.

Mr. MA::'-J:"\f (Ca:rn"•): The dop<1rtm0nt it­self was doing good work, but he h~d some gr.iw;-anec;, in reg<Ird ~o _the I_nsufficw':'cy. of some of the public bmld!llgs m his .c!Istnct. He would like to se3 the Seerehry for Public Instruction there to ask him why his der;.uhnent did not allow the \Vorks De­partment to build an up-to-date school in­stead o' h<Iv.ing the children in the present patched edifice, which was a disgr"C'' to the town. He believed tnere were mor<' children in the c~irns school than thoro were in any other school building in Queensland. It was s,dly overerow~kd, and there wa·J a crying nece3sity for a girls' and infants' school to be built. He hoped the Minist<Jr in charge of the Estimatu would kindly JWOd his col­league along, and o-et him to agree to erect proper school buildmgs in Cairns, and, if he did, he (Mr. Mann) would bf· very grateful to him.

Mr. THEODORE: Cairns is on the• decline.

Mr. MAN::'-J: That st<Itement hardlY calkd fm a r·,ply. The hon. member knew that. Cairns was not on the decline; and if the country th.at the hon. memb.cr represented went ahee·d. it would become one of the bigge·-.t to'\ ns in QucC>nsland.

Mr. THEODORE: lYe will have to use another port.

::\Tr. MANN: A few hare-brained poople talked of looking for another port, but he did not think the} '\muJ.d find it. Another building to which he wished to refer was the courthoufl2 in Cairns. He did not know what was t],e rc·ason, but they rarely saw ·a Government building that would at all com­pare for commodiousness and comfort with nrivate buildings. The post office, built by the Federal Gov< ··nmont, "ras -a little hump::­backf'd place thut waJ .already .almost out of d"J+e.

Mr. FORSYTH: What can you expect from the FPderal Government?

Mr. MANN : While the Federal Govern­ment were sinners in that respect, the State p.overnment was equ<Illy lacking in provid­mg proper courthouse accommodation. They had been .patching up the present buildino­for the past twenty years. It w.as only afte~ 'a great deal of effort that they were induced to do something to the building in the :vear 1904-5. There was an incessant demand from

Supply. [24 NovEMBER.j Supply. :2383

the people who h>;d to nse the building for more aocommodatwn, and that a<:>-eommoda­tion caul~ o!lly be pro:'ided by giving them ·~ new buildm.g .. In .spite of .all their patch­mg ';'nd contnvi_ng, It was almost impo,sible for JUrymen, witnesses, and officials to find acmmmodation in tho present courthouse let .alone the public whose busine··s required therr attendance there. There was not suffi. cient room for them inside the buildino- and thero . was no shade for them outsid~. It was hke Hades during the hot months for the unfortunate jurymen who had to stand about outside waiting until they were needed. . Mr. THEOD,ORE : Is not there a big figtree 1n front of tnB courthousB?

Mr. MANN: How could men sit down there after 15 or 16 inches of rain had fallen and the ground was sod·d?n? He wished thB hon. _member could realise what living in the tr?P:ICS ~·Bally meant, but he had onlv been hvmg m the North for a short while and bad !lot yet accommodated himself to hi~ surroundmgs. HB trustBd that the DBpart­ment of Justice. waul~ incluCB the powers that be to prov1cle smtable accommodation. The . cour~ho.usB was a mere travesty of n, public buildn:g, and was totally inadequate for dealmg With tho businns that had to be tra_riS·lded there. Several wiro• came from Carrns a few mont~s ago in regard to the la<'

1k of <lCc'?mmodatwn. On one OC<'asion, in

Ju,y of tlus ;<·eu, the pressmen who went them to report cases, .and who were surnosed to be the ears of the public, were not abJ.e to find .'":'-'ommodation inside the courthous.e. The J¥lmister knew the building, as he went OV<'r It wh:'n he was in Cairns, •~ncl lw could bear out his statement that the buildino- ,, .~~ almost totally inaclDquate. HG had nothi.n" ha:d. to sav abo:'t. the vote for hospitdl bmldmgs. The ;yimiskr and his denartment treated him liberally in thB matter of finclin~ the n;oney for improvemtmts to the Cairn~ Ho~pital. He had not a single word of com­plamt to make <tg-ainst the department He oommenc]p.c] the Minister for the co~rtes and attention which hB gave him and thy despatch with which he put thr~uo-h an~ r<'qu<'st tha_t came from Cairns, and "'he had to th';'nk lum for that. With regard to the techmool collegos, he noticed therB was u, su•n of £12,000. d:nvn for the four-fifth3 cost ;f eollege bmiclmg•. He supposed it v· 1 s too much to expect that any of that money would b., spent in Cairns. ·

Mr. THEODORE: It is going to be erected at Herberton.

Mr. MANN: He admitted that there had b_eon a great deal of trouble over findinrr ,;, site for the technical college at Cairns. but h~ (Mr. Mann) had shown a WJ'' out of the difficulty, and thctt was to take a poll of the ratep_ayers and parents upon the question of the_ sit<;, and he was sure that they would un­ltesitatmgly adopt the site .at the drillshed. He l~opGcl, therefore that th,• Secretary for Pubhc Work~ would get a start with it a.s soon as possible. It ;vas three years since they first. started talkmg about putting up the tech'.uca] college at Cairns, and they were a?parently as f!'r off getting it as ever they were. He entirely agreed with what the han. member for Maryborough said about Government House. " Fern berg-" was g-ood enough for any Governor. In all his experi­<mce of . Governors--and he had met a few­he considered that Sir William MacGregor was the best Governor they had ever had in

Queensland. He was a plain honest man, well informed, and a scientist of standing, and one could get into touch with him straight away. He V]as an ideal Governor. 'fherefore, while h·3 had every respect for him, he considered that " Fernberg" was quite good enough for him and was good enough for his successor: although he hoped it would be a long day before Sir William MacGregor went away from Queensland. He did not believe in calling on the Governor to entertain Bris­bam' society without paying him an adequate salary for doing so. He thought those people who expGcted him to entertain them should get up a subscription through the C ouricr and pay for their own entertainment. He believed in paying the Governor a good salary, but they did not expect him to en­tertain lavishly, and he did not believe in paying him a big salary just for the pur­pose of entertaining the bon ton of Brisbane. With regard to tho inspection of machinery, the inspectors should have a thorough inspec­tion made of machinery in all parts of Queensland. Even if they did spend a few thousand pounds in that direction, it would be money well spent if it "·as the means of preventing an accident and saving £amilies from losing their breadwinners through an accident to some machin~ry. H- noticed in the report that there were some prosecutions in Cairns in connection with the early-closing provieions of the Factories and Shops Act. HP thought it \\auld be almost necPssary to persecute as well as prosecute some of the Chinese there in order to make them comply with the provisions of the Act. They !:tid it clown that the white employer should close his F hon ,at ·a certain time, and they really made an effort to do it. He had to call the inspector's attention to one or two firms who "'orkE'd their emploYees after hours, but they closed their shops· now. But tho Chinese kept their shops open, and they could not o'<:pect white people to entN into competition with the Chinese stores when they kept open like that. He hoped the officers of the de­partm<>nt would be active in putting down breachc>s of the early-closing provisions of the Act. The police should also assist thn inspectors in that part of their duty. In the table on page 4, he noticed the transactions of each agency in the State, and did not see Cairns amongst the number. The list included Brisbane, Bunclaberg, Charleville, Charters Towers, Gympie Innisfail, Ipswich, Mackav, Maryborough, Muttaburra, Rock­hampton, Roma, Toowoomba, Townsville, and \V arwick. The people of C.airns were anxious that a branch of the immigration depot should be established there, with an officer in charge to provide for the housing of any immigrants landed there. They also required an officer for labour so that the employers and employe<'< could get into touch with one another, so that men coul-d get employmBnt without any trouble. If men wanted cane­cutters or chippers, or if men were wanted on the Atherton lands-perhaps a man would want a good milker-th<'y should be ab~e to go to some place in Cairns and hire the men they wanted, and the employee should know the work and the remuneration and the place where work could be obtained. If necessary, the State should pay his fare to the place and collect it from his first earn­ings. The labour bureau should be an up­to-date sort of a plac~', and because it was not so both the employPrS and the employees shunned it. That should not be so. It should be a place that the fullest possible use was

Mr. Mann.]

2384 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] ~uppl_y.

made of, and there should be real up-to-date men in charge, who would supply the best information obtainable.

Mr. COLLI~S : He had in hie-• hand the r!'port of the "\Ycrker;;' D" ellings Board, a1HI he noticed that tllPy said "By far the breatest number of hous. •s h,lVe co.;r bctwe• n £200

and £300 to erect." Evidently a. [ 5 p.m.] house cc- ;ting between £200 and

£300 was considered good enough_ for a "\Vorking 1na~1 to li'T:u in. Turning no"\\r

to page 4 of the report of the Department of Public "\1~ arks, he found the following item :-

" F\rnb~r,9', ten1por;1.ry Government House­Purc_h::-:;.;e ~H buildlng and land, altftrations, furn1tu1·e, In.:_;tallation of electric light, c~urrent~ ga-,, and fuel, £12,751."

The.·.o •vas ~ contrast. John Smith, who erected a d-"·dling under the \Vorkors' Dwell­ing:\ Act, li1.""r-d in a hou&9 costing between £2t-J ;•nd £300: and a:wther gentleman, hy tho n~rrw of Sir William MacGregor, Go­vernor o; thi. State, liv-:d in a house which co•·t ~he cc .• ntry £12,751. In other words, one man required a house costing fifty times more than that in which another man lived_ 'l'he bigger house probably contained twenty or thuty rooms, and th::.;,t, of course, 1neant, the employment of sMvants. He understood that it w:ys proposed to build arnther Go­vernment House at rqst of £30 000 oe £40,000, and if that expenditure was incurred in order to enable the Governor to Pntertain societ<·, he hPld that it was an outrageous use oc the peopie's money. If society wanted to be entertained, let societ:· bear the cost of that entert" inment. Re corring now to tho report of tho Director of Labour, he found that the departm• nt had not been able to find work for all j he applicants for employ­ment. The report mcmtioncd incl'eases ancl decrea,cet> in wages in different places. It showed that there had b0cn an increase of' .£1 ls. 7d. per week in the wagP·· of butchorR at Charterd To-wers. That was a fairly large increase, thanks to the Butcher:o' Union.

JYir. BOOKER: To the wagf's l::n'"rd.

Mr. COLLINS : Thanks to the Butchers • Union. At Mount ::)lorgan the butchers goi; an increase of 15s. 3d. per week.

Mr. BOOKER: The wages board.

Mr_ COLLINS: Thanks to the Butchers, Union. There would have been no wages board if there had not been a Butchers, Union, which 'qs one of the best organised unions in the State.

Mr. THEODORE: It has 3,500 members.

Mr. COLI,INS: At Rockhampton the but­chers got an increase of 7s. 6d. per week, at Maryborough an increase of 4s. 2d. per week, and at :Mackay an increase of 6s. 3d . per week. The report went to prove tha-t; where labour was well organised there were big increa.ses in wages. The butchers headed the list in nearly every place mentioned by the Director.

Mr. BooKER: The wages board adjusted the wages.

Mr. COLLINS : Those increases were due to the efforts of the Butchers' Union. The report also stated that the department had not been able to find employrrvmt for all the people who applied for employment.

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC WORKS: Have you read the concluding remarks?

Mr. COLLINS: Yes.

[Mr. Mann.

The SECRETARY FOR PcBLIO WORKS: He sayc;­there that there was not ,ufficicnt bbou~.

l\1r. COLLINS: The Director of Labour caid-

.. In reference to the supply and d: mand for labour throughout the twelve months ended 30th June, 1911, the statistical tables here­after given sho·w that, out of 11,496 per~ons rcR;hter~d. 8,722, or 75.87 per cent., wore found employment, and \l ere a::o;sisted to travel to sam·."

Did not that prove that 25 per < ent.· of those applied for employment did not find work?

The SECRETARY FOR PcBLIO \YoRKS: Look at page 9.

Mr. COLLINS: H<' had carefully read page 9. At that pag<:> the Director ,a.id-

.. _\II classes of indUstries throughout the State are in a prosperous condition, the fac­tories in a great many ir: ;tancc.> ~.Ling unable to cope with th::.ir ordlrs through St\trcity of labour."

He had his doubts about there being a scar­city of labour. He ,,·a· talking rc<:"ntly to· a faclv, a new arrival hom the old country, and she informed him that she had to work for a tirne to keep her hushand, who was a grocer nnd was unable to find employment.

Mr. D. HL"iTER: V\~as he a nominated im­migrant?

Mr. COLLINS: Yes. 3-Ir. D. H-c-NTFR: That is the kind you

·apprm- of. ::\fr. COLLINS: He did not approve of any

of them. However, that report sho'' ed that while 11,000 pm·sons applied for work. the de­partment "ere only able to find empioyment for 8,000, and that proved that in some in­dustries there was no shorta!:0 of labour.

Mr. 'I'ROU'I' (Enoggem) did not thin!~ hB' should have risen to speak on this matter had· not the hon. member for Burke referred in the strong terms he did to what was known as the Butchers' Union. From what the hon. member said it might be inferred that the· Butchers' Union had forced the butchers to­do what thny },ad clone.

::\Ir. COLLINS: That is correct

Mr. TROUT: It was not correct. He did. not think the remarks of the hon. member were calculated to cultivate the spirit which should be observed in these matters. There was no body of men who had worked more in harmony with one another, both before -and since the formation of the wag<-S boards, than the butchers and their employees throughout Queensland. The wages board consisted of an equal number of representatives from the employees and the employers, with a chair­man, .u1d he did not think there was one occasion in connection with the meetings of that board when there was any necessity to refer to the chairman. 'I'hat proved that both employers and employees met in a proper spirit for the purpose of determining those matters which were remitted to them under the \Vages Boards Act. He would like to disabuse the minds of hon. members and the people generally c.f .any idea that the ma,ter butchers were forced to do this through the strength· of the union. It was not so; they were not forced to do it. There were numbers of master butchers who voted for those candi­datPe for Parliament that they knew were going to support the passing of the Wagns­Boards Act, because they felt that there '<as a necessity for machinery to be brou~ht fn l.o regulate matters which badly wanted regul:tt-

Suppi;1j. [24 N OYJEMBER.] Supply . . 2385

inll·· He hoped there would be no disunion~ and that the very friendly re:ationship which existed between employers and employees in the butchering trade would continue. H,e thought that some of the remarks which had been made would tend to do more harm tha,tl good. With regard to the question of Go­vernment House, he understood that when it was d·ecided that the Central Technical Col­lege be built, .and that Government H0use be alsD utilised for a Univ.ersity, there would be •a new Government House in Vidoria Park, which was a magnificent position for the purpose. It had boon said that the present Government House should be good enough for any other gentleman who might take up the position of Governor here, because it was good enough for the preoont Governor, but he thought that if another Governor came who entertained more than tho present Gover­nor, it would be found that the present place was not fitted for his requirements, and it would necessitate a considerable sum of money being expended for the purpose of fitting it for the Governor who might come here and wanted to entertain on a fairly large scale.

Mr. COLLINS: Who wants one?

Mr. TROUT: The hon. member did not want a Governor at all.

The CHAIRMAN: Order! Mr. TROUT: The nrosent Government

House, while suitable for the present Gover­nor, migh"t not be suitable for the gentleman who followed him, and a more suitable place for a site could not be found than Victoria Parle He understood that the present pro­perty, which had been purchased by the Go· vernment, could be disposed of at a profit.

Mr. D. HUNTER (Woolloongabba): It seemed .to hi'!' that they had reached a sta;;e m political h1story when it became the duty of members of Parliament, when the Esti­mates were on, to seek to increase the wao-es of the men who happened to live in their eh,c­torates. Unfortunately, that was thought to be the province of members of Parliament bv some people outside, but it was a little dangerous. He had heard one hon. mem her say that inspectors under the Works Depart­ment should be allowed to get overtime but no more dangerous principle was eve~ re­commended in the Houoo. The inspectors were sent out into a certain locality, and to a large extent they could make their own overtime. They had got allowances-some had 12s. 6d. a day-which allowances were more than their requirements in many cases and it was far better to make it a salwry tha,;_ to 1allow these men to settle their own over­time. They knew the danger of overtime. In some of the sugar-works he ha.d worked .in he had seen men deliberately play for over­time. They could not do a thing on Satur­day afternoon, when it was time and a-half: they had to go somewhere else, but they could do it on a Sunday when it was double time. It was better to put their feet down on overtime. and pay men the salary they de­st'rved. He wanted to draw the attention of the Committee to the report of the Under Secretary fer Public Works. Looking at page 3 of the report it was very notice,able how for the last fiv·e years expenditure from State revenue had been mounting up. To­day they were spending double on public works to what they were five years ago. They had added £8,000 to the expenditure in two years. But when they looked at the work of the Federal Government they found they were

1911-7 G

not going up in like proportion in Queens­iand. Though they had a great amount of work in Queensland going on now, it was not because of any action which the Federal Go­vernment were responsible for, because, as a matter of fact, two years ago they spent £37,000 in works out of revenue, whereas last year they only spent £31,000. Two years ago members on the other side were out for the alteration of the Constitution, trying to give the Federal Government \full power over our revenue, and now that they ·had got full power ove•r the revenue they were starv- · ing ~Jueensland in the matter of public works, and the money which w1as being collected here was being spent in other States. It was a very bad state of affairs for Queensland, although it might suit the argument which the hon. senior member for Townsville ad­vocated, that they should do their work in bad times, but unfortunately this money would never return to Queens1and

Mr. CoLLINS: You recognise that there are gcing to be bad times.

·Mr. D. HUNTER: Undoubtedly they would have bad times in every State, but whether they ha.d good times or bad times, they should endeavour to have the money whicn was col­lect.ed in Queensland spent in· Queensland; it had no right to be squandered in other States as it ~vas being squandered the. pre-sent time. If looked up the speech on public works was made by Mr. Fisher, he would see the immense amount of work which was about to be done in the other States, and there could be no doubt that very little of that work was going to come to Que€nsland. That was the evil effect of doing worlr out of revenue at 1all times. He had drawn the attention of the Committee to this mattcT, and he sincerely hop€·d that the Go­vernment of the Commonwealth would give them a fair deal, and that much more work would be done• in Queensland than what had been done since federation.

Mr. CoLLINS interjected. Mr. D. HUNT'ER: He only wanted -a fair

deal from the Federal Government, and he thought the hon. member ought to recognise that when money was collected here it ought to be spent here.

The CHAIRMAN: Order I Mr. D. HUNTER: He hoped he was in

order in discussing that matt.er on this Esti­mate. He was only asking from the Com­monwealth Government a fair deal in the matter of expenditure on public works. But there was an amusing position which arose on this report. Bon. members on the other side told them time and again that they should do all their railway works by day labour. If members would turn to the report of the Under S.ecretary for Works, at page 11 they would find that an amount of Com­monwealth work was being done under the so-called pernicious system of contract labour. The· expenditure in connection with the Bowen Post and Telegraph Office, for in­stance, was under the contract system ; and surely that was an insult to the people of Bowen, who returned a member in favour of the day-labour system. Then there was the contract for improvements, repairs, and paint­ing. drill ~all and caretaker's cottage, Ipswich, £152, whwh could have been done by day labour. The State Government did a large amount of work by day labour. They had erected larg·e premises in William street which turned out good work, and· those premises could have been used to great advantage by

Mr. D. Huntm-;J

238n [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

the Commonwealth Governm<mt; but a great ;amount of work done for them in Brisbane was done under the contract system. There was furniture for the Commonwealth Old-age P·ensions Office, £71 15s. 6d.. supplied by contract.

The SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS: Probably made by Chinese.

Mr. D. HUNTER said he did not think it was Chinese furniture, but it could have. been made perfBctly w,gll at the GovernmBnt workshop.

Mr. CoLLINS: Who has charge of this work? Is it not the State Government?

Mr. D. HUNTER: It did not matter who ·was in charge-the Commonwealth Govern­·ment had the ultimate say. Was thBre not a ·King O'Malley? And if he could say there should be preferenCe to unionists, could he not just as easily say that Commonwealth work should be done by day labour? ThBy were putting up works in Melbourne by day labour, and why should Queensland be treabd in a different fashion? Ther·e was also a ·contract for furniture for operating room, General Post Office, and another for £71 16s. 6d. ; also one for fittings, repairs, and paint­ing mechanician's office, £97 lOs. At Long- . reach, in the electorate o.f the hon. member for MitchBll, ther·e was a contract for repairs and painting, post and telBgraph office. £90 8s. lOd. If it was fair that the State should have no contract work done, why was it indulgBd in by the Commonwealth Govern­ment? It was not carrying out the platform of the Labour party. At Maryborough, wl:)ich was in the ·electorate of the Prime Mini'ster, there was a contra.ct of £58 15s. for improve­ments, Btc., to the post and telegr,aph office. He maintainBd that if there w.as in power a, party that believ·ed in day labour, there was no justification for that class of work being done by contract. Now he came to a more serious matter, which had reference to the inspection of machinery. An inspector was put into a v·ery dangerous and invidious position in the Western country wheri he was entirely dependent on the man whose machinery he

·was inspecting for accommodation and for getting to. the next place whBre there was machinery for him to inspect, which might be 120 miles distant, more or J.ess. If the inspector was severe on the machinery, the man might say he could not spare the time to take him to the rtext place where there was machinery for him to inspect, and ask

'him to wait for a few d'a.ys. Some method should be found by which insp-Bctors would

'be altog-ether independent of the men whose ·machinery they had to inspect.

Mr. CoLLINS: They are now. Mr. D. HUNTER said they were not. Mr. CoLLINS: They can take their own

'Vehicles. Mr. D. HUNTER said they sometimes had

to go into districts where. they could not get vehicles. If a man met an inspector at

'Charleville and took him by mo,tor-car to a place 100 miles away, and there was another place 100 miles further, he would be de­pendent on the man who met him at Oharle­villB to take him to the second pla>ce. It would be far better to supply inspectors in the West with some mBans of conveyance­even if a motor-car had to, be supplied-so that they might be independent of the persons whose machinery they inspected. They would then be able to makB far more inspections

'in the same time, and more honest inspections. Mr. ORA WFORD (Fitzroy) wished to

'make a few remarks by way of indicating [Mr. D. Hunter.

his disapproval, or censure, or praise, of th9 ¥>ark carried out by the Minister for Public \>Yorks. In the first place, he would like t6 refer to a grievance in regard to the n'Jmber of public works inspectors. He had rf3Ceived a letter from the department showing that there were not sufficient in­Bpectors available to allow of the inspection of a work of considerable urgency at Mount Morgan. That might ,also be the case in a number of other centres ; and he commended it to the Rerious attention of the Minister, if he thought he had not a sufficient number of inspectors, to at once appoint more. They must go ahead with public buildings as towns <;Jnlarge, and large public buildings

were required and while the [ 5.30 p.m.] S.ecret.ary for Public Works was

1in kindly communication with thB Hon. the Minister for Railways, he (Mr. Crawford) would take it kindly if, in his dual capacity of TreasurBr and S-ecretary for Public Works, he would suggest to the Sec­retary for Railways that he should not look with any glOomy forebodings upon the little expense required in adding to the present 'railway station at Mount Morgan. (Laugh­. ter.)

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC WORKS : That is very nicely worked in.

Mr. ORA WFORD thought need not say more upon the urgency of matter,

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC WORKS : l am rather afraid the Minister for Raihvays would tell me to mind my own business.

Mr. ORA WFORD: He was sure hon. members listened with a great deal of atten­tion to the remarks 'of the hon. member for Townsville upon the expenditure of public money, and the hon. member seemed to lay it down that the Government should defer any large expenditure upon public buildings until they were in the mi-dst of bad times. If that was the han, member's correct idea, it did not altogether meet with his (Mr. CrawfDr.cJ's) •approval, as they must continue to build as the necessity existed. In regard to the proposed new Government House, he had already condemned any expenditure in that directiDn, as he did not see that it WiJS necessary. In a very few years they would have quite a new and less elaborate system of Governors in Australia, and a plain sub­stantial building would meet all requirements ,an-d would be quite suitablB to the carrying out of the functions of Governor of any State in Australia, and, instead of spend­ing a large amount of money in building a new Government House, they should devote the area of land and sums of money at their disposal to making Victoria Park the scene of a model village in which the Government could erect houses, and so in some measure bring about a little abatement of the pres­sure which existed in the matter of rents; a pressure which was very severely felt by large numbers of people, and which, unless some measure of that kind were taken, would be more severely felt in time to come. They knBw that Brisbane was incre.asing iin size, and the demand for houses was also increas­ing, and it would be far better, in the in· terests of the State, if they declined abso­lutely to contemplate the idea of building a new Government House. They had re­moved the Governor from his old historic residence. He had been opposed to that all the time, because that part of Brisbane was entirely unsuited for the purpose to which it was devoted because of the inadequate

Suppl,y. [24 )[ OVEMBER.] Supply. 2387

.area, and the Government were now putting up huge buildings next to the University, .and they had it on the authoritY of the Premier that the purpose for which thos~ buildings were being put up must be carried out in some other locality some few years later on. Therefore, they should give much greater consideration to those matters and not allow themselves to run into expendi­ture which would have to be repeated in some other part of the State before many yean had elapsed. So far as his constitu­ency was concerned, they had been well treated, and he had not heard any very severe remarks from hon. members in regard to carrying out the policy of the Depart­ment o£ Public "\Yorks. He hoped, how­ever, before long tho department would consider the advisability of completing the Treasury block. So far as he could learn, a number of Government officials were scat­tered here and there throughout tho city.

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC WORKS; There is come provision for that.

Mr. CHA WFORD said he was very glad to hear it, becauec not only would it bring about what was necessary, but it would be a great addition to the substantial character of the buildings in which Government work vas now being carried on in Brisbane, and it would be much better if that block of buildings was completed. He did not in­tend to say any more on those matters but there were some figures he would requii·e elucidating when the;;· got to them, but as a .general concideration of the whole depart­ment, he thought they were doing well and hoped they would do bettor.

Mr. THEODORE (TV oothakata) rose for .the purpose of mying he was very pleased to kno\\ that, through the debate last year on the question of day labour versus con­tract, they had secured a convert in the member for \Voolloongabba. The hon. morn­ber now advocated a policy in connection with public works which the Labour party had been advocating for years.

Mr. D. I-Iu~TER: And not carrying out.

Jllr. THEODORE: Day labour instead of ~ontract in connection with public work& was a Yery scncible suggestion, and he hoped other hon. members would become imbuced with that idea.

Mr. D. l-ImiTER: It is not being carried out by the Federal Labour party.

Mr. THEODORE pointed out that tho Commonwealth Government had no control in tho matter of repairs to public buildings in Queensland, and the que,·•tion as to vthcther the work should be done by day labour or by contract was left entirely to the Stat<e Departm<mt of Public Works, which undertook to do the work, and did it "ccording to th<>ir usual policy. Tho De­partment of Public Works had stated that although they favoured day labour, >·:her­ever it could be carried out, they were unable to carry it out themselves because they could not get sufficient supervision. Last year the Labour party contended that there was so much public works being ca,-­ried out in each district in Queensland that it -would be quite easy to have a complete system of supervision and have all the work done by day labour. Wherever the Federal Government undertook the work themselves, it was carried out on the day-labour system. 'The' hon. member for W oolloongabba surely

knew that Mr. King O'Malley, the present Commonwealth Home Secretary, recently stated that the Federal capital would. be built by day labour, so far as it was possrble. That was the policy of ~he Fe~eral Govern­ment, and it was a polwy whrch should. be carried out in every State. It was c"rtamly more satisfactory, and he would like to ask the Secretarv for Public "\Yorks what was his experience in connection with the erec­tion of the kiosk in the Botanic Gardens? When the question of building the kiosk was mooted tenders were <'•1lled, and the only tenders' submitted were considerably higher than the department's estimate. The depart­ment estimated the cost at about £800, and the lm1 est tender was somewhere about £1100 and it as decided to carry out the' w~rk by day labour. He would like to know whether the department had exceeded their own estimate in that work. The Stat·~ Government should c,;"rry out all its works by day labour.

:iVIr. D. HUNTER: And the Federal Govern­ment too.

::\1r THEODORE : Quito so; and even the iocal authorities, as far as possible, should carry out all :York by da;y: !abour, as it would do awav v:rth the permcwus prac· tice of putting ;n bad work, as was often done. The following telegram apl?eared, 1!l

the ('ou,·i•r on 15th June last '"'th reier· <:'nco to one of these unscrupulous contrac­tors. Ho had no doubt they were not repre­sentative of the general bod.•: of rontractors, but vet thoro were some of that kind to be found among them-

,, Interesting evidence regarding con:ractors' tricks was given in the Supreme Cvurt dl~ring the hc:'oring of an action I.·Y "\Villiam f-Tale r gainc:;t the Perth City Council for <la~agL ··, alleged to be caused to property bf neg!I.g :nee in the c ~Jnstruction of street dranr- James McManus uid he wa• employed by the cou­tract'1rs as foren1.1n for the con.:;;truction of the drain. ne:f.r pL.Jntiff's property, and he receive:_d a v·.-rcenL1.ge on all ce1nent he ·.:tved. On this colltrac, alone he used 140 b,;gs of cement Ie ;s than v. as provided for in u~e specifications. Thomas Rvan gd.ve evidence that the proper quantity o£ cement w JJ:! used only when the in­F'pc.;tor was pre:,ent. The cont:acto~ used to t~ ke the inspector away, and d1,1rrng h1s absence extra sand and metal "\Y->uld be used."

Thev should avoid that sort of thing, and the "be ~t way of doing so was for th<e Go­vernment to carry out ,all their work by day labour. -with reference to the award of the wa~e:,; board in connection with the butcher­ing"'industry, ,•nd the question of whether the Butchers' Union was rcs,>onslble for those increases, he would .ask the hon. member for EnoO'gora how it was, if the mast<' 1t butchers wer;; ''" very anxious that fair conditions should preva"i! in the industry, and the in­crease came from them spontaneously--

Mr. TROt:T : Nobody said it ca:mo from them spontaneously.

Mr. THEODORE: Th,at VI as ,a qualifica­tion to the hon. member's general r,emarks. The contention of the hon. member for Burke was that an.,. definite increase could be attributed to the organisation of the butchers' employees.

Mr. TROUT: To the wages board.

Mr. THEODORE: A number of master butchers had actually been prosecuted lately for not paying the ratce of wages fixed by the wages board.

Mr. Theodore.]

2388 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

Mr. TROUT: That shows that the depart­ment ·are doing their duty.

Mr. THEODORE: He gave the ·depart­m<mt credit for that, but a number of breaches of the award had occurred which hoo never been rectifihi. He admitted that very oft-en it was not the fault of the de­partment, because it was very difficult to get evid<mce.

Mr. TROUT: All reputo.bl0 employers help them.

Mr. THEODORE : They could not get away from the f·act that, according to the report of the Chief Inspector, there was a sum of over £1,700 paid for .arrears of wages, as prescribed by wages boards de­terminations. That mone:{ 1\as '[lracticall,­forced out oE employers by the unions ·after the oc;,•,rds having fixed the rates of wages.

Mr. D. Hm;;TER: Force-d out of them by whorn-th<o· unio-ns or tho Government?

Mr. THEODORE: In nc·arly every oase the unions had made a complaint, •:tnd the department initiated a prosecution.

Mr. TROUT: Some of the reputable em­ployers <.omplained.

Mr. THEODORE: A number of the unions were now comphining that there were not sufficient :inspectors to .attend to thosn matters.

The SECRJ:;TARY FOR PUBLIC ·wORKS : I think that your own -tatemcut gOB> to prov€ that the d<>pari nent must have ·a good number of inspectors, when it has been able to unrY out the law and institutB prosecutions v.hFn there have ooon breach0s of awards.

:\1r. TIIEODORE: There was a good number of inspectors, but there ''ere not enough. There were fresh determinutions com­ing out eYery week, which threw additional work on th" in• pcctors, which they wc•re not able to cop~ with. The chie: complaint .of the unions now ·.-.as that there werD not enough ii,spectonJ, and he ho'[led the de >art­ment VI 'Ju!d not hesitate about .appointing more, so that the;· would be in a position to enforce thD awards.

JHr. TROl'T : There are a few good employer· ..

Mr. THEODORE: Thmc wme ,,ome very good employf r:o.

Mr. McLACHLAN ( Fortitude Valley) was very pleased that there had been some incr·OOSPS given to the staff, but he thou"'ht they might have been a little more libe;al. He gathered from the remarks of the Min­ister that it >us his intention to go into the matt-er before the close of the year, and per­haps hD would then find it possible to giYe somf' furthcer increases to some of the officers. ThB only matter which did not seem to havD been touched on to any extent was the vote for wages boards. but probably thB inten­tiox; W"-S to discuss the vote when they came to 1t. He was prepared to admit that thB Minister was endeavouring to do the best he could in connection with factories and shops and when cases of breaches of awards had been brought under his notice he had insti­tuted prosecutions. His experience- was that thBrB were not sufficient mspcctors to see that the Factories and Shops Act and the Wages Boards Act were ·administered as the Minist-er desired to have them •&dministered. The number of inspectors in the metropoli­tan. area was too small. It was interesting t-o read the reports of Mr. Martin, Mr.

[.lJ£ r. Theodore.

Thid, Miss Smith, and the other inspectors. in the metropolitan :1rea to see ~he wo_rk they were doing. The report of M1ss Sm1th was particularly interesting. It seemed to him that she was v~ry much overworked.

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC \YORKS : She is· away just now on six months' !Dave.

Mr. McLACHLA;\1: And no doubt she needed it .. He noticed she had an assistant~ a Mrs. Charlton.

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC \YORKS: An ex­celkmt woman, too.

Mr. McLACHLAN: Both of them were excellent offiDers, but, excellent as they were, they "ore not able to cope with the work. According to the r-eport, there was a very considerable amount of overtimB work going on. On page 24 of the report, :\fi.; Smith said-

" The amount of overtime worked by women nnd girl::. howed an increase on the amount workf'd the previous yE:.lr, 40,000 hours being worked t...s ag,zir:.st 3G,000. The number of indi·viduals who v, or ked was, however, le~<s, being 1, ~00 as ag::tinst 1,500. The overtime is worked c'!liefiy by fPinalcs over eightNm years of age, the number under that age who worked at night bcinr; lef; than 7 per cent. of the whole number."

Though the overtime work had increasBd, it wa, spread over a .maHer number of indi­vidual•. There '"as one paragraph in Mrs. Charlton's repo'·t which db.erved -"Dme at­tention. She e.·lid-

" In refresh1nent shops the en1ployee receives the wage pre;;-;Lribt-'\'1 in the detennination, but the employ( r makt l a charge for meals which i mo ·t exorlJltant and unsatisfactory, and sometting should be done so that no over­charge can be made."

If that paragraph meant anvthing it was that while the employer had l:ieen compelled to pay an incroa>•cd "ago. ho had incroc.sod the cost of his employ~0's food to such an extent that he almost kept her wages at what they wc.re befo1e the av, arc! "as made. That fur­nished very strong proof of tho neceHity for an amendment of the \\'ages Boards Act and the Factories and Shops Act to enable them to deal with matters of that kind. The han. member for Enoggera took exception to some remark made by the hon. member for Burke when ho was speaking about the increase in wag~s v1·hich the butchers had re­ceived. He noticed, on page 19 of thP report, that quite a number of different employees-­and tlw majority of them were associated with organisations-had received increases in their wages. From the table appearing on page 19, to which he had referr•3d, it would be seen that a material increase in wages in many instances had been secured. But even this increase was more apparent than real, because, while the persons got an increase in wage;, the increase in the cost of living and the increa,,e in house rent took away all the increase which they got in wages. In most cases the workers were no better off and in some cases thPy were not as well off as they were before they had their wages increased. On page 14 of the report he noticed this po,ra­graph-

" Wages~Factories.--It is gratifying to be able to record that in the Brisbane district and in most of the country districts a general advance in the average wage is shown this year, and this, taken together with the large increase in the number of employees referred to before, indicates that the secondary indus­tries are now in a very healthy condition. Of

6upply. {24 NovEMllER.] Supply. :;1;389

'~ourse, determinations of wages boards have ·in a large number of caSf'''' influenced these changes, but increases are also shown in many trades not working under determinations."

He quoted that paragraph because of what was stated by the junior member for Mary­·borough, Mr. Booker, that all increases in wages were due to the wages boards-and •Something the same was stated by the hon. member for Enoggera-and that paragraph ·showed that the increases were not all trace­able to the action of wages boards. In many in~tances in industries ·wherP no wages boards ·ex•~ted, ~mt where. there were strong organi­satiOns, mcreasos m wages took place. The han. member for Enoggera took exception to the remarks of the hon. member for Burke when that hon. member said that the em­ployees in the butchering trade forced the -employers to give them an increase by reason <Jf the fact tho.t the butchers were organised. It mattered little to him (Mr. McLachlan) what the hon. member for Enoggera thought about it, but it was an absolute fact that the increase was due to the fact that the but­chers were organised, and the hon. member for Enoggera knew it.

Mr. TROUT : What if there had been no wages board ?

Mr. McLACHLAN : The butchers would 'be g;etting just the same wages as thPy were . gettmg to-day. (Hear, h(·:tr !) Some three and a-half or four years ago there were only thirty or forty members in the Butchers' Union, and they had to work any number .of hours a week and be content with an\' wage the employers liked to give them. ·

Mr. TROUT: The Factories and Shops Act interfered four years ago and fixed the hour .•.

Mr. McLACHLAN : But it did not fix the 'vagos.

Mr. THEODORE: It did not fix the hours at the slaughter-yards.

Mr. BARBER: They had to work long hours .every day.

Mr. McLACHLAN: Owing to the paltry pittance which the butchers received and the long hours they had to work they recognised that something should be done, and they organised, with the result that they obtained .the improved conditions which existed to-day.

Mr. TROUT: The reputable employers as­sisted them.

~,Lr. McLACHLAN: The Butchers' Union had 3,000 or 4,000 members to-day, and the reputable employers and those who were not reputable had to recognise that the union was something to be reckoned with.

Mr. THEODORE: Since then the employers ba ve met them in conference.

Mr. McLACHLAN: Although the wages board may have been the tribunal through which the wages had been recorded as a wage--

Mr. D. HuNTER: And fixed.

Mr. McLACHLAN: No; it was not fixed by the wages board at all. The increase of wages and hnproved conditions \VPrc ob­tained before the wages board considered it at all.

Mr. TROt:T: \Ve conferred from time to time.

Mr. McLACHLAN: They oniy conferred when they knew there was a strong power urging the conference.

Mr. TROUT: There was no need to hold the conference. You do not give the em­ployers credit for anything.

:Wr. McLACHLAN: He did give them credit. The employers in the butchering industry were wise in their generation, and the;- recognised the wisdom of conferring.

Mr. TROUT: ThPy did their duty. Mr. McLACHLAN: The organisation of

the butchers was the cause that produced the conference.

Mr. D. HuNTER: Do you my that they could not have got a wages board without a union?

Mr. McLACHLAN: No; he did not. B;e knew the Act just as well as the hon. mem­ber, and it did not recognise a union; and he was not going to be caught by that interjection. It \Vas, however, much easier to bring the \Vages Boards Act into opera­tion when they had an organised body than when they were disorganised. He wanted to refer to the remarks of the hon. member for \Voothakata with regard to the amounts that had been collected from employers in the butchering trade who evaded the wages board's award. He did not want the hon. member for Enoggera to think that he thought all butchers were disreputable. That was not so, as there were reputable men amongst the employers in every trade . If they were all reputable there would be no need for inspectors, but at present they had to have an army of inspectors to sec: tho"t the Act was carried out as it should be carried out.

The bell indicated that the hon. member's time had expired.

::\ir. McLACHLAN: On page 23 of the report he noticed this paragraph-

o Wages Boards Determinations.-Meat In­dustry--Although very few complaints have been. received at this office, it has been sur­priRing, in the course of my visits of inspec­tion, to find the number of employees ,~,.ho were being paid a lower wage than that to which they were entitled tor the cia ,s of work per­formed." · It was a pity that we should have in our midst a class of employers who would know-

ingly evade the determinatio~s [7 p.m.] of the wages boards, but 1t

seemed to him that when the inspectors discovered such cases they did their work well.

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC VVORKS: VVe have a splendid lot of inspectors, who are impartial men and do a fair thing.

Mr. McLACHLAN: He said that, but at tho same time he thought they had too much work to do. It was very arduous work.

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC WORKS : Very discreet men are wanted for that work.

:!Hr. McLACHLAN: \Ye required discreet men for that position-men who had the neces,.ary ability and tact to carry out their duties in a proper manner, and he was glad to hear the Minister say that the depart­ment "ere successful in getting a class of men who performed their duties efficiently. The report showed that the inspectors were doing their duty without any fear of any consequences which might happen to them­selves. The Brisbane inspector (Mr. Thiel) r-aid-

" During the year I visited Ipswich, Wyn­num, Southport, and Nerang, and arranged

Mr. McLachlan.]

2390 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Suppl_y.

arrears of wages under the different deter­lninations. as follows :--

£ s. d. "Meat Industry Board, South-

Ea;'tern 9 18 0 " Sawmilling Industry Board,

South-Eastern 90 10 4 " Car8t~~g Trade Board, South-

49 9 6 ,

That showed that the inspectors were doing what was nec:ecoar:, to see that the deter­minatic,ns of the wag·,·s boards were carried out. The indnstrial organisations were assisting the department very materially in this respect by enabling them to put their finger on places where determinations Wc"'e boing evaded, which might otherwise escape the notice of the inspectors. He should reserve anything further he had to say on this subject until they came to the vote dt>aling with wages boards.

Mr. FORSYTH (1loreton): According to the report of the department no les:, a sum than £227,153 was sp3nt last year on public work;. That was the large•,t amount that had h•,en spent in that way in any one year. The sum of £55,000 was spent on school buildings, and we must expect that as the State progrosscd the f''l:penditure on school buildings would necessarily increase. Though the !Government had spent a large amount during the last twelve montho in this direc­tion, and though they asked for a consider­able sum for this year, yet there was not sufficient, as far as he could judge, to cover the• necessary cost of buildings and repairs needed by the various schools. Tho sum of £227,153 expended on public works last year inclnd,ed an amount of £31,759 from the Common­wealth revenue. A great deal of this work was dono by contract. Tho hon. membPr for Woothakata believed that it would be cheaper to have the work done by day labour. He (Mr. Forsyth) did not think so, and had never thought so. He believed that if any member of the House built a hom,~ for himself he would have it built by con. tract, and not by day labour; and any commercial man would do the same thing. If he was going to build a house to-morrow he would no more dream of doing it by day labour than he would dream of flying to the moon. If day labour was something that they could make money by as compared with contract work, would not a business man adopt that system of building? Qf course he would, because a business man went for the cheap<·'t thing, as long as it was good and satisfied his requirements. There were hundreds of houses going up in Brisbane and all over Queensland at the present time, and he should like to know how many of those were being built by day labour. That was the question that he would ask members of the Labour party. It might be practicable and profitable to do repairs and such like work by day labour, but where they had to erect a straight­forward building he believed the contract system was preferable. But it would be unwise for the Government to accept the opinion of members of the Hom'' on this subject, "~ they were only laymen, and did not know much about it. Thev would do very much better to leave the matter in the hands of experts, and not make any chango unless th<:y had expert evidence that such change was desirable. If business men be­lieved in the principle of day labour, and

f i1f r. 11£ cLachlan.

could get buildings put up as cheaply or cheaper in that way, why did they na,t adopt the system?

J\Ir THEODORE: Just because they cannot supe~vise the work themselves.

::Ylr. FORSYTH : Did anyone e:er hear such an argument? If he wa1'' ~uttmg up a building he would have. an architect and an overseer to protect hrs mterest, and see that the men were doing the work prop<:rly; and the Government also had an architect, and their works were inspected by competent men. He did not say that all were honest and straightforward, but he knew ~ome who were remarkably honest and straight· forward. He had had some work done at home by a man he had very much con­fidence in. He never askPd his price, but simplv said "I have so much work to do; <'ome' and 'do it." He did not sos that thev could trust every contractor, but what wa3 th<' good of an architect '?r, overseer of works when a man entered mto a con­tract but to see that the work was d_one, properlv and according to spemficatwn. They heard a lot about this day-labour s-,, ;tem from some men, but why. did they, '\Vhen they had any work of thell" ow!' t~,, do, ~=·ive it to a contractor? They smd .I" was quite different, but what was the dif­ference about it? The hon. member for vVoothakata was trying to persuade the S:c­rehry for Public 'Works to do away with· the contract system, and go in for day labo;rr every time, and ye_t when he a~kcd hun the question why pnva.te peop_le did not. do it,, he replied, "It IS a different thmg altogether."

Mr. THEODORE: There is no danger of political jobbery-th,,t is one thing.

Mr. FORSYTH: The more explanation they got from the hon. mcmb~r the wors:' ~e got. Did he mean to state that _any MmiS· te1• in charge of money belongmg t_o the pEople of the State was going to go I~ for noli tical jobbery? Did he know of a smgle case of political jobbery that had evet' taken place in Queensland?

Mr. THEODORE: The Cairns Railway. Mr. FORSYTH: They all knew about

the Cairns Railway. Did the hon. mem?er mean to tell the House that in connectiOn ·with the Gairns Railway the Gov:'r!lment •vere going to fling awav half a milhon of rnonev? Every Governn1ent did their lev!"I best to protect the interests of the Stat<: m every way tlwy possibly could. Tl~ey_ n;ught be " had " the same as a private mdiVIduai 1-night be', but to say it was po_litical jobbery vva,; simply "bunkum "-nothmg more nor less. The Government gave out contracts and tenders came in, and in many cases, when things w~re not as good as they were now, there was keen competition, and the more competition there was they generally got the lowest price.

::\1r. CoLLINS : Is it a good thing to accept the lowest price?

Jl,fr. FORSYTH: Of course it was a good thing to accept tho lowest price. There were men who knew when they took a contract that they would not make a shilli':'g out of ito, but they did not care as long as It covered e =xpen"es, as they had a lot of good men \Vho they . did not want to throw out of ernployment, and it kept them together. \VhPn things impron•d they would get a betta· price. The best thing was to leave,

Supply. [24 NOVEMBER. J Suppl,y. 2391

this day-labour business entirely in the hands of the department. There were men there who were very competent and above all political jobbery, and men who would do their duty. The W arks Department had several oontr.acts which it was as well to give to day labour, but there were others which it was better to give to contractors. 'I'he men who had had years of experience should be more competent to judge whether work should be given out by contract or by day labour. He did not believe in tying the Government's hands either in connection with day labour or contract. In connection with the expenditure of money on public buildings in Queensland, if they looked to the time of the drought they would see how little was spent on public buildings in those days, and although things were up to the mark now, a few years back a great deal of money had to be spent in the repair of those buildings. Last year we spent £227,000 on public buildings. In former years they used to spend a great deal of money from the loan fund, and not much from rev-enue, but it had since the policy of this Government, and Governments before them, to spend as much money as possible in connection with buildings from revenue. Last year they spent £156,000 from revenue, and only £35,000 from loan fund. When thev could afford to do that, it was all the better. Some of these build­ings were very subsL:mtial brick buildings, which had been charged to loan. He t.hought the policy of the Government of charging 5 per ce~it. to revenue year, so that at the end of twenty years should be wiped off the books altogether, was a good one, but in connection with brick build­ings it was better to write it off-to make one job of it and finish it. In connection with the inspection of machinery, thG total expenses under the Machinery and Scaffold­ing Act was about £8,900, and the amount of revenue derivable £6,200. Some people would think that the charge in connection with that work was too much, and certainlv when they looked through the figures it did seem too much. It might only take an inspector an hour a day. What they had to look at was this: That, although there was a loss occurring in connection with this work, on the other hand they must bear in mind that the work was done for the protec­tion of the workmen; and, even although they might lose a few thousand pounds, it was money well spent. From page 4 of the report they would see the enormous number of buildings that had becm erected in connection with State schools. There was one item which he must congratulate the Government on-that was in connection with "Fernberg." He had beJi.eved from the very first in the expenditure in improying that building. He thought the Government acted wisely in buying the place. Thexc was a large area of land attached to it., the trams were running that way now, and if the Government had to seli later on, they would get more than their money back. It would have been better for them to buv it in the first place than to lease it and spend the £300 or £400 on it. He looked upon it as a good, sound, financial transaction. In connection with schools, there was a large amount spent on buildings and repairs, and there would have to be more and more spent as time went on. He thought he was not very far out in saying that they would want £20,000 more next ye.ar. The amount on

the Estimates this year was something like £35,000 from revenue, and about £20,000 from loan, or a total of £55,000. There was no vote which went through this House which was passed with greater pleasure than when it was for education, and it was most essential that they should do the very best they could for the young people who were growing up in regard to education, and they wanted good buildings for that pur­pose. He therefore hoped that the Treasurer next year would be able to arrange for an additional £20,000 for school buildings and repairs.

Mr. THEODORE: Don't you think the de­partment should experiment with portable· buildings in some of the mining places?

Mr. FORSYTH: They had a number of portable buildings now. That was a matter he was discussing with the Under Secretary,

The bell indicated that the hon. member's time had expired.

Mr. FORSYTH (continuing): Noticing in a former report of the department that in many cases people had loft the places wher& schools had been built, he pointed out to the Under Secretary that it would be a good: thing ill certain cases to put up schools that could easily be taken down and re-erected elsewhere ; and he understood that was being clone.

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC WORKS: Yes. Mr. TErEODORE: They are not making muclk

use of them in the North. Mr. FORSYTH: It was difficult to know·

whether· a new place was going to grow or whether it was going to die <>!lt.

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC WORKs·: Some­times a small school was put up in a plac& that was not considered likely to progress; and it was afterwards found that it had to be enlarged.

Mr. FORSYTH: Quite so. In any case, he quite agree·d with the: .hon. member for W oothakata that the Government should erect portable schools in places that wight die out, so that they could, if necessary, be taken down and put up again somewhere else. Speaking generally, the department was well managed, the money was well spent, and they should not tie the hands of the department,

Mr. ADAMSON (Rockhampton) : The first thing he wanted to speak about was the re­duction of salaries in connection with labour and factories. In Bunclaberg there was a rise of £20; in Townsville a rise of £10; in Charters Towers a fall of £40; in Mackay a rise of £10; in Rockhampton a fall of £10; a11d at Toowoomba a rise of £90. How was it that there was so much difference between Rockhampton and Toowoomba? He under­stood that the officer at Rockhampton had a number of duties to perform.

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC WORKS: An ad­ditional assistant has been appointed at Rockhampton.

Mr. ADAMSON: He was glad to hear it. There was another matter he wished t<:> mention. He could not bring a concrete case, but there were persistent rumours that in some of the places where girls of a certain age employed, and those girls ought to

a certain salary, in order that they stay at their work they ha-d to say

received a salary which they did not

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC WORKS: If that happens they can sue the Bmployer.

Llfr. Adamson.]

2392 Supply. [ASSEM BLY.J Suppl;IJ·

Mr. ADAMSON: Unfortunately, those who- wanted to keep their work would not sue the employer. If the thing was ti:ue, it was a scandal and disgrace; and if he could get a case he would bring it before the de­partment.

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC 'WoRKS: Bring along th8 case when you have it.

Mr. ADAMSON: If the rumour was true, he hoped Mr. McGee would instruct his in­spectors to see into it; and if the practice existed, he hoped the delinquents would be brought to justice. Then there was ~he matter of passes for the unemployed. Durmg the last few months he had to arrange to guarantee passes to men out of employment. If they were going to bring out immigrants, and people were going to be displaced from their employment, he thought the Works Department, in conjunction with the Railway Department, should seek to arrange to get men to places where they could get employ­ment, and let the value of the passes be de­ducted from their wages. He was pleased to notice by the report that all over the State men had been availing themselves of the Workers' Dwellings Act to put up oomfort­able dwellings for themselves. While he ad­mired the hon. member for Burke for the contrast he made between the Governor and the working man, and while he did not think a State Governor was needed, he did not like to be U!l against a clever, worthy, and good man, such as our present Governor. Still he admired the hon. member because he was aivmys consistent in asking that the men who

toil--the men whb work hard­[7.30 p.m.] should have the best homes pos-

sible, and thos,e w-ere the men, speaking' generally, who bore the burdens of Queensland and the burdens of the whole world. As Carlyle said long .ago-

" All the civilisation of the world, all people of the world, and all the education the world was the result of toiling men lived long years ago, and they had done more for civilisation than either generals or warriors had ever done.''

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC WORKS: Did you notice it fared very badly in another· place?

Mr. ADAMSON: It wo,uld be a good thing if the other place w-ere sent to oblivion, and the other place should fare very badly at their hands. Members had referred to the influence of trades unions on the formation of wages boards and the increase of wages. He (Mr. Adamson) was in the Hous.e when the Wages Boards Act was passed, but the wages boards would do no good unless there were strong unions behind the men. Wher­ever wages boards had been successful it had been because the men had formed themselves into unions. He was not going to say that the hon. member fox Enoggera was not always desirous of doing the best thing possible for the men under him, but everybody who knew anything about the history of trade unionism knew its influence had be,en to shorten hours, to better the conditions of labour. and to

[Mr. Adamson.

increase the wages of the working ciass. Those wages boards would have been abor­tive without trades unions. He was not going to labour that. point, because he . be­lieved the wages boards had done some good work and he was not one of those who want~d to get up against employers con­tinually. He was always pr.epared to fight them when it was necessa.ry to fig-ht, and he was always prepered to g-ive credit when it was necessary to give them credit. He be­lieved one could fight all th~ harder when they gave their opponents cred1t where cred1t was due, and when they had to fight, shake hands before they started and .shake hands after they had finished. Somethmg had J:leen said in referenc.e to the matter of overtime, and he noticed in one of the Rockhampton papers a request had been made to work more overtime.

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC WORKS: I may tell the hon. member at once I have no. sym­pathy with it.

Mr. ADAMSON: He was v-ery glad to hear that. Overtime should only be resorted to as a matter of extJ:eme necessity, because it was not good for the health of the employees, and it was not good so. far as efficient work was concerned. It was far better for every­body to work the usual hours, as.better work was done in •every way. Son}ethmg- had also been said about contract versus day labour. In the construc:tio,n of railways it had been proved that day labour had been better than contract. If that was true in railway con­struction it was just as likely to be true iv. putting up the Printing Office· or .any .other building. The Government should go m for day labour and go in for paying- the best wag·es po.s~ible, '':or king thi;) . sJ:wrtest hours possible, and makmg the cond1t10ns for those who toil the best possible. Recently he was in one of the rallway construction camps, and while much had been done for the men, a great deal more could be done fox their comfort. and by making those men more comfortable they would make them more cont•ended, and t:hey would have .a chance of having- something like a human llfe ought to be.

Mr. MAY: Yo.u would g,et better work out of them, too.

M:r. ADAMSON: Yes. The hon. member for TownsvilLe, for whom he had a great deal of respect, and to whom he always listened with a deal of attention, spoke about reducing vote. He had not studied the repoxts as car·e;fully as the hon. member for Townsville and the hon. member for Moreton, but what struck him between the two was that one advocated an increased vote in cer~ tain instances and the other hon. member advocated a reduoed vote. He (J'dr. Adamson) hoped there would be no reclndio.n so far as schools were concerned. They ought to have the very best school building-s possible, which would tend to the best health of the childre,n, and no amount of mo.ney spent in that direc­tion could be too much so as to provide good buildings and make it possible for ~he children to h'1ve the very best educat10n possible. fi,g particularly rose to refer to the salary of the man in Rockhampton and the amount of work he had to do. He was very glad to know that he had got an assistant. He was also glad to hear the hon. member for Too.mbul speak about one officer of the vVorks Department, :Mr. Jack, whom he had known for a very long time. Mr. Jack was a thoroughly urbane man and a thoroughly capable man, and £280 a year was not enough for a man like that. The salary of men of

Supply. [24 NovEMBER.] Supply. 239:1

his type should, as far as possible, be raised ,sQ that they would be encourag.Bd to remain in the department.

Mr. CORSER (]II•aryborough): They had heard some criticism of the department, and it might !let be out of place to say that they had a Mmister in charge of the department who was most conscientious, capable, and .courteous, and that would be generally ad­mitt·ed by •all sides of the House. As re­

.garded the new Government House, he was quite in accord with the hon. member for 'Townsville, as it would be more judicious to go in for that expenditure when work was more scarce. A great many progressive business firms wore anxious to let contracts to establish industries, but they were told by

·contractors that they could not take on any more contracts because they could not get labour or material. By going on with too much Government work, which might be held over, they were' stopping progress in ·Queensland, and they should postpone un­.necessary work until some future date, when times were, perhaps, not so good as at pre­sent. It was his duty to go through many .of the public buildings, and it appeared to him that a great deal more convenience was given to public officers than a great many officers of private firms enjoyed, and they could not get increased accommodation for the very r·eason he had indicated; ;and when it came to a question of giving in­creased accommodation for the civil ser­·vants, the Minister should take. into con­sideration that there was also a necessity to provide better accommodation for the

,general public. That, however, could not be done when there was such keen competition .for labour CLnd material. He listened with a certain amount of interest to the hon. mem­ber for Burke when he made his comments upon the Governor and upon the accommoda­tion to be provided for the Governor. He "gave the hon. member credit for sincerity in what he said, but he was pleased think that there were very few people in land who held similar opinions.

CoLLINS : There are thousands of

LABOUR MEMBERS: Hear, hear !

Mr, CORSER: It was to tho credit of .the people of Queensland and of Australia that they had a reputation for hospitality. When Federal Ministers and Federal mem­'bers went home recently they could not com­plain of any lack of hospitality, and it was necesary for the Governor of Queensland to have sufficient means found for him and sufficient accommodation provided to enable him to extend thG hospitality that was expected

.from a· man occupying· such a high position. 'l'hey sur.sly should not earn a reputation in Queensland for being less hospitable than the people in other parts of the world.

Mr. THEODORE : 'Where does the necessity .come in?

Mr. CORSER: The hon. member for Rockhampton made reference to the in­ability of the unemployed to obtain railway passes. He knew one of the unemployed the hon. member referred to, and he did not think that such men should go to the ·Government for assistance. If a man was a bootmaker in Brisbane and he went to em­ployment in the country and remained in that employment for a consi·derable period, •and then wanted to return to Brisbane, he <Jhould be in a position to return here at his

own expense. The man ho was speaking of received good wages, he understood, and he could have got employment for him in Mary­borough, but he wanted to come to Brisbane. Then they heard about the poor unemployed whom the Government would not supply with free passes. Such statements conveyed a wro~1g impression with regard to the actual position not only in that Chamber but also throughout Queonslan!l and elsewhere. 'l'he hon. member for Rockhampton was a very sympathetic man. He believed he would help any man that he thought was in need, and sometimes stcch men were imposed upon. No blame could be attributed to the Go­vernment for not assisting people who should be capable of assisting themselves. It had been stated that the increased wages that were now being paid were not due to the wages boards.

Mr. THEODORE: The unions are respon­sible.

~1r. CORSER:· The w•ages boards were much more responsible for those wages than the unions.. There were very many men who were not unionists and who had noth­ing to do with unions who had been just as strong advocates of higher wages as the unions, and he knew that many men were paid higher wages than those fixed by the v,.-rages boards.

Mr. CoLLINS: What wages were paid in Mary borough fifteen years ago ?-4s. 2d. a day.

Mr. LAND: Fifteen months ago. Mr. CORSER: One gratifying thing in

connection with the Estimates of the depart­ment was the amount that was being spent in increasing school accommodation. He trusted that that was a matter which would at· all times receive the serious consideration of the Minister in charge of the Works De­pm.·tment. l-Ie did not look upon such works as additions to the Treasury Buildings and the new Government House as being in the same category as school buildings. * Mr. LAND (Bcdonne) quite agreed with the senior member for Townsville that the Government were goinfl" too fast in spend­ing money in public buildings.

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC INSTRUCTION : What builqings? ·

Mr. LAND: Not school buildings. The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC INSTRUCTION :

They represent the bulk of the vote. Mr. LAND : 'They did nothing of the sort.

The hon. gentleman could not include the Central Technical College buildings under that heading. The Central Technical College was for the rich .

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC INSTRUCTION : Why, it is attended by the childr·en of the poor.

Mr. LAND: The Government had lately been creating a great boom. They were going on precisely the same lines as pre­vious Governments, and, hke them, would wind up with a terrible deficit. They were spending a lot of money in buildings at a time when there were great numbers of people building private residences. On every tramline and along every suburban railway new houses were going up in every direction, and that was the time when tho Govern­ment engaged in a large building policy. He agreed with the senior member for 'l'ownsville that the Government should em­bark in a vigorous works policy when there

Mr.Lmotd.J

2394 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Suppl,y.

was a lull in private enterprise. For six months in the year-it applied to a very good year as well as to a bad year-a great many men were out of employment in both the sugar industry and the shearing indus­try, and he had always believed that that was the time when tho Government should spend money.

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC INSTRUCTION : Point out any public building that you think is extravagant. ·

Mr. LAND: They were spending a terri­ble lot of money in unproductive works. They were spending £64,000 o.n the Central Technical College.

The SECHETARY FOR PUBLIC INSTRUCTIO}; : Do you object to that?

LAND : They were spending £12,000 on Fernberg"; they were going to spend £30,000 on a new Government House, and there was £30,000 for a Government Prmt­ing Office in Brisbane.

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC INSTRUCTION; Do you object to spending money on a Go­vernment Printing Oflicc, or would you sooner that. it went to private enterprise?

Mr. LAND: He would deal with the £30 000 for the Government Printing· Office and' the £64,000 for the" Central TBchnical College later on. The Government were spending a lot, of money on education. in­cluding the £64,000 on th.9 Central Techmcal College, while in the country districts people could not get £10.

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC INSTRUCTION : That is not so.

Mr. LAND: He had a letter which was receiYed from the department in reply to a request that was made for a few pounds to put a fence round a school at a small placo in his electorate. Some time ago the school was p<tinted, and an application was sent in to the department for a few "bob" to fence in the school. They wanted to keep the school grounds nice and tidy, and they wanted to plant a few shade tr,ees fo;r the childr,en to play and rest under in summer time, as it was one of the hottest climat,es they had got in Queensland. This was the reply that the sec­retary to the school committee 1rec€ived from the department-

" 10th November, 1911.

u Sir,-With reference to previous\ corre­spondence on the subject, I have the honour, bv direction, to inform you that the vote for school buildings for the current financial year has been fully appropriated, and that it will be necessary that the fencing of the school grounds at Wyandra be deferred until addi­tional funds have been made available."

Surely the department could have spared a few paltry pounds for that work! But all the money was being spent in Brisbane. If there was a million of money to be spent, three-fourths of it would be spent in Bris­bane.

Mr. D. HUNTER: We did not do that with the railways.

Mr. LAND: The Government nassed rail­ways which even their respons!ble officers did not recommend.

Mr. D. HUNTER: But it is not Brisbttne.

Mr. LAND: It was for the benefit of Bris­bane, and to take the trade from New South Wales.

[Mr. Land.

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC INSTRUCTION: You have not pointed out the buildings which you object to.

Mr. LAND: He pointed out the Central Technical College to be built in Brisbane, which Brisbane would get the benefit of.

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC INSTRUCTION: Do you object to spending money on techni­cal colleges?

Mr. LAND: No; but he objected to the spending of so much money in Brisbane,. ·which was only for the benefit of the places surrounding Brisbane. Y'7ith regard to the Governor, he did not wish to speak of S1r William MacGregor with any disrespect at all. So far as he knew, he was as good a. Governor as they had ever had or were likely to have. They were paying the Governor a salary of £3,000, and for a salary of that amount "Fernberg" was big enough, ana good enough too. If the people of Brisbane" wanted to have an expensive Government House, costing £30,000 or £40,000, they should raise the Governor's salary, and if they were not prepared to raise his salary, they should not build a larger Government.House. They could not expect a man to live a. champagne life on a beer income. (Loud laughter.)

Han. R. PHILP : The Governor is a teetotaller. (Laughter.)

Mr. LAND: A good many of the people· vcho were entertained by the Governor would not be satisfied with beer. (Laughter.) They would want something more than beer, especially if the Governor I~ved in a ,P30,0QO house. He was one who did not beheve m the State having a Governor at all. (Hear, hear !) \Vhen the people of Australia voted for federation they were of opinion that, one Governor would be suffici·9nt for the whole of Australia. (Hear, hear!) The Government were spending money and booming along, but thev would have a slump directly. The Go­vernment was Sp.9nding too much money On' public works tha~ we:e no_t reproducti_ve. They were compet,mg With pnvate enterpnse, and that made material dear. ·

Han. R. PHILP: And you don't believe ill' that.

Mr. LAND: He did not believe in the Government entering into competition with the private enterpriser when there was 31 boom on, as they should not spend so much public money w-hen bricks and timber were dear. The Government was spending a lot of money in brin11ing people out from home at the expense of the working men and work­ing women of Queensland, to enter into com­net;tion with the working men already here'. H the drv weather continued for six months; they wou.ld see what things were like in Bris­bane, which was more overcrowded now than, it had ever been before, and it would bo more overcrowded while the Government were going on with their building, as it en­couraged mechanics and tradesmen ~o oorr:e· to Brisbane from all narts of Australia. HIS

advice to the Government was to go slower, and take a null, and have a reservo b0 that when ba,d times came they could spend public· money in giving employment to some of the population. Reference was made by the hon. member for Enoggera te the Butchers' Union,. and he; would give his exnerience. The· wao-es board was the outcome of th;tt union. Th~re wouJd not have been an inc-rease in wao-es or better conditions for butchers but for

0

the union. The emplo,.ers never stepped out to give better wages to the butchers, or,

Suppl,y. [24 ~OYEMBER.j Supply. 2395

at any rate, he never heard of it, and he had been amongst the butchers a good deal and must have heard of it. He remembered working for a butcher once. He saw what was going on as he was always awake and was always sober. He worked from half-past 3 in the morning until half-past 9 at night

six days in the week, and part of [8 p:m.] Sunday. That was his experience

in working for butchers, and other employers were just the same-they worked men as long as they could and gave them as little as they could.

Hon. R. PHILP : Is that what you do? Mr. LAND: He was not an employer; he

employed no one. Hen. R. PHILP: How do you get your work

done? Mr. LAND: He had no work for anyone

to do. What he had told the Committee was his experience in working for butchers. If any other man had a better experience than his, then he said that man was lucky. He knew from his experience that they had to thank the unions for a lot of things. They had to thank the unions for the Labour party being in that House, and for everything that was democratic in Queensland. If the con­ditions of the working men to-day were better than they had been, then they had to thank the unions for that.

The bell indicated that the hon. member's time had expired. *The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC WORKS thought that the arguments which had been advanced by some hon. members that evening would not have been advanced had they bieen in possession of the facts. The attitude of a Minister at the head of a department should be to court the fullest criticism of his department. The other night, wlien the Treasury Estimates were going through, he intimated that it was a good thing that a department should be criticised in a fair way, and that was his opinion. He was quite sure that the hon. member who had just resumed his seat would bw one of the last men to get up in the House and say that the Government were trving to block expenditure in connection with a particular school, if he knew the facts of the case. Not very long ago, he had the pleasure and privilege of acting for the Minister for Edu­cation in the North, and he thought hon. members would do him the credit to say that wherever he went and found it necessary that certain work in connect.io:n with State schools should be done, that work was undertaken.

HoNOURABLE MEMBERS: Hear, hear! Mr. THEODORE: Did you cancel your en­

gagements! The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC WORKS:

No; he did not cancel his engagements. The money had been spent in a proper way, and consideration had been given to every part of the State. It had been· inferred that it was impossible to get money spent on certain schools, while the needs of other schools were considered. He should be able to show that such was not the position. To do that he would quote what had been the expen­diture on schools in different parts of the State for 1911-12, up to the 8th November: last, both from loan and revenue account. The ex­penditure from loan was as follows :-Bris­bane and district, £3,384 lOs. : Ipswich and district, £872; Darling Downs district, £8,173

·Os. lld.; South-western district, £2,055 5s. 9d.; Wide Bay and Burnett districts, £4,012 Os. 6d.; .Central district, £1,251; and North-

ern district, £2,519 2s. The expenditure from revenue in connection with schools for the same period was as follows :-Brisbane and district, £4,932 2s. 4d.; Ipswich and district, £2,144 6s. 6d. ; Darling Downs district, £4,651 13s. ld.; South-western district, £727 3s. 9d. ; Wide Bay and Burnett districts, £2,246 9s. 6d.; Central district, £3,239 ls. ; Northern district-he would ask the hon. member for Burke to make a note of this-£6,320 13s. From those figures it would be seen that a fair deal had been given to schools in differ­ent parts of the State. \Vhether a member was -the, Minister for Education or the Minis­ter for Public Works or any other Minister, if he was not prepared to help the little children-the children who were the greatest asset of the State-he was not worthy of the position of a Minister. Undoubtedly children were of the greatest importance to Queens­land, and every man who had any sympat~y in his nature should do his utmost to assrst the children.

FOLEY: Is it only now that you are that out?

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC WORKS: No; it was not only now that he had found it out, and his record in that connection would nrovG that it was not only now that he had -found it out. He had shown himself deeply sympathetic with young life before the hon. member came into politics. Perhaps there was no man sitting on that side of the House who, when he first came into the House, receiv0d severer criticism than he did for what he did along those lines. He had no apology to make for what he did, and when- an hon. member asserted that for some reason or another the Government were try­ing to block the expenditure of money for school purposes in a particular district, be­cause they were spending the money around Brisbane, he said that member was altogether mistaken. The Premier had, the other day, to turn down an item for his own electorate.

The PREMIER : An item of fourteen guineas.

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC WORKS: And he (Mr. Barnes) was recently at a place in his own electorate, near Cleveland, where the people deeply regretted certain expendi­ture in connection with the local school had not been approved. No.w, what was the position in connection with expenditure, or what was the position with regard to the commitment out of votes which appeared on the Estimates now-and this would explain nretty well why every hon. member of the Committee had had something turned down in connection with his electorate? The vote for new school buildings appearing on the Estimates for 1911-12 was · .£20,000, and the total number of commitments was .£19,841. Take the position from revenue. The vote waR .£35.000, and the commitments were £32,183 J2s. 6d., so he thought hon. mem­bers would at once see that it was important that care should be exercised, and that they should not, at any rate at this juneture, exceed the vote.

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC INSTRUCTION : Members are continually pressing us.

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC WORKS: They were face to face with this position to-night-they had been told by the hon. member that they ought to go slow. Gen­erally sueakin,-, however, the experience was-and let him say at o.nce that the hon. g,entleman referred to. the hon. member for Townsville, never came and tried to bustle

Han. W. H. Barnes.]

2:396 Supplg. [.ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

any Minister into exnenditure-the experi­ence was that every m'ember would urge you to go slow except in the case of his .own ·electorate. ·when it was a case of his own electorate, he would tell you that it was most urgent, and on no account should it be turned down ; and he was not going to blame a member for trying to do his best for his own district. Of course, the other fellow's district was not much good, and it was not needed-only his particular district must have attention. Let him say that it was not a pleasure for a Minister to have to turn down what he regarded as legitimate proposals, but might he remind hon. mem­bers that they were only in the fifth month ·Of the financial year; in some directions the weather was very dry, and he thought it was a necessary and proper policy that in this Donnection great care should be exercised.

HONOURABLE MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC WORKS, There had been to-night a good deal of comment with regard to expenditure, and there had been a good deal of comment as to the question of building by adver­tising for tenders and taking up contracts or doing it by day labour. He did not .,;ish to open up that subject any further, but he <Jould see, looking at it in an impartial way, that it might be highly desirable to go in for expenditure in the direction of a con­tract, especially in isolated places. In an isolated place where possibly work had -only to be performed to a limited extent, if you had to get plant to. do it by day labour 1t would be exceedmgly expensive and unwise. He had never hesitated to say that under ordinary conditions contract was the best, but there were cases where it was the duty of a Minister, if he thought that the amount asked by the lowest contractor was too great, to keep it down in the way he believed would be most economical to the State. He thought that that was a fair position to take up. No Minister had a right to go in for any particular system at the cost of the State. Sometimes it hap­pened that a man would take up a contract that he lost heavily upon. He knew of cases this week where it had lJBen very evident that people who had tendered for certain work-reputable contractors-in making up working specifications had committed some mistake, but the policy of the department with a reputable contractor was, of course, that he should take up the contract, and they could easily tell if the tender co.me in much lower than the estimate that mistake had been made. The duty of was not to try to take anyone get fair value for the money being spent in the State.

Mr. THEODORE: What has the experience been in that connection?

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC WORKS: He would deal with that later. In tion with contract work he might allowed to say one thing besides-a great number of things operated in contract work. First of all, it wits highly important that the specifications should be carried out to the very letter. He did not share with the hoJl. member for Woothakata the fear that <JVeryone who went in for <1 contract was trying to take the public down.

Jll1r. THEODORE: I did not say everyone. The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC WORKS:

There might be some men who wanted to

[Hon. W. H. Burne-~.

be closely watched, but he did not think it was a fair thing to say that all men wanted to be watched.

Mr. LENNON : He said there were excep­tions.

The SEORETAHY FOR PUBLIC WORK:": He was glad he. had misunderstood the hon. member. It was highly important in con­nection with their contracts that the material used should be of the very best. He noticed the other day-and he want.ed to make a passing reference to something which might be of a nature outside the debate-that a reference was made in another place with re­gard to contracts, and strong exception was taken by one gentleman to cement, because it was likely to como from Germany, and he gav.e certain reasons why he thought they should be debarred. He took it that thoir duty as a people was, all things being equal, tc try and preserve the rights of their own people, but they had a right also to be abso­lutely just, after making the usual conditions, to those who were outside, and to see· that the article was of the very best; and especiaily ought they to be very careful, seeing that there was a good deal of reciprocity in connection with their own and other countries-very car.,ful to see that the business ·relationships wer.e maintained in the best way possible. He did not think they ought to do anything to irritate those who were some of our best settlers in Queensland, and very great care ought to be exercised. The hon. member for Townsville drew attention to what he deemed the exceptional expenditure in connection with ·a building-he thoughb in connection with the loan expenditure. Possibly he might be allowed to make some little reference to that, although that particular vote· was not on these Estimates. Might he draw attention to this fact-that one who was the Treasurer of the State•, and who was desirous at all times of serving its best interests, would not be anxious to ,embark on a policy which might mean disaster to the State of Queensland. He thought the 'I'reasurcr should be what was called " Scotch " all the time, very

' canny and careful with regard to expenditure. He wanted to show how this increased ex­penditure was made up. from the Estimates. " General Repairs, Painting, Improvements, and Incidentals " show·ed an increase of £7,500. \'ii"hat was the reason for that increased ·ex­penditure? ·what was the position? When the Hon. Mr. Hawthorn was Treasurer, an altered position came about in regard to the amount received from the Commonwealth, and it was generally thought the altered position might prove 1a difficulty in making revenue balance expenditure. He could speak feelingly on the matter, because. he happened to be in the Education. Department at the time, and was anxious to get as much money as he could to spend on works of development, but was told that he must cut down expenditure because it was feared that accounts. might not balance on account of the altered conditions. And what happened? Works that were ex­ceedingly necessary were turned down, and there had hecome a bigger demand for works this year. (Hear, hear!) After all, was it a good thing to allow buildings to go too long, without receiving attention? It was a great mistake. When he was in the North he found some buildings that had gone too long-the same as in the South-and he thought hon, members would do him the justice to admit that they received a fair deal: Now he wanted to draw attention to the £4,000 •extra asked for " Co:urthouses, Police

{;'uppl;IJ. [24 NovEMBER.] Supply. 2397

Buildings, and Additions": £10 000 oxtra for " School Building·s and Additio'ns, Improve­ments, Furniture, Repairs, and Painting." The evidence showed that these extra amounts were not adequate for the requirements of tho Sta.te. The technical colleges were down for £2,000 more than last year. Would any hon. member say that was money being wasted? He wanted to say emphatically that if he had to choose between cutting down technical colleges and cutting down the University, he would cut down the University every time, because the technical college was of more practical value to the State.

HONOURABLE IVlEi'<IBERS: Hear, hear!

'I'he SECRET'ARY FOR PUBLIC WORKS: There was a sum of .£1,850 down for " G·oodna, Quarters for Assistant Medical Superindendents" ; .£1,350 for " Toowoomba, Hospital for Insane, Electric Light Installa­tion"; and £700 for " Toowoomba, Medical Superintendent's Quarters, Additions and Alterations." He hardly remind tho Committee of the risk of having the ordinary light in an institution. With regard to the Sanatorium, he did not think anyone would object to an addi­tional expenditure of .£3, 500 in the interests of suffering humanity.

Mr. LENNON: What about the Inebriates' Institution?

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC WORKS: If they could help to rescue any man who had fallen, it was money well spent.

Mr. LENNON: If ! The SECRETARYFORPUBLIOWORKS:

He knew of a man, at present employed in tho drapery establishment of the hon. member fer South Brisbane, who was down there, and was now a credit to himself and all con­nected with him. Coming to the expenditure for the equipment of the University, £12,500, he wished to assure the hon. member fer Townsville, Hon. Mr. Philp, that before that expenditure was allowed the closest scrutiny was given to it. The position was this: They had established the University, and it ·was absolutely necessary that, it should be equipped in a fa:ir way. Every detail was gone into most carefully, and the amount asked for was cut down considerably. Possibly no other University started with such promise of gucoess, and he thought there was no hon. member who desired to spoil its influence. The professors were young men of whom we ought to be proud, and he hoped the Com­mittee would not take any action that might minimise their usefulness. The hon. member for Herbert made reference to the question of sanitation, and he might say that provision was always made in that direction. When he was in the Education Department there was some trouble owing to the increased amount that had to be spent in this direction. The pe·rson doing the work in any place might throw it up, and frequently there was only one individual who would take up the W'lrk; and the result was that the• department, in

the interests of all concerned, 1-.ad rs.30 p.m.] to spend more money than they

would otherwise have to spend in that direction. Reference had been m>Lrle l:y the hon. member to police court buildings, especially to the police court buildin<ss at Ingham. He (Mr. -Barnes) regretted that he had not had the pleasure of vioiting that fertile district.

Mr. LENNON : We would be very pleased to see you there,

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC WORE;& hoped the pleasure would be mutuaL He was sure the hen. member would like to. see him in that district, and he should like very much to be there just about election time. (Laughter.) He was quite sure the hen. member would not have represented the conditions of things as he had unless thev were unsatisfactory, and he would call the attention of the Home Secretary to the matter, and he was quite sure the Home Secretary would do justice, as he always did, to the hen. member for Herbert. Re­ference was also made to the fact that in Toowoomba a certain officer was getting mere money than an officer doing similar work in Rockhampton, and other places• were quoted as welL He might point out that the officer in Toowoemba, Mr. Crowther, was a very old officer.· He was sent to Rockhampton, and unfortunately, while there, his youngest child took exccccdingly ill, and there was no hope of the child's life being s3.vod unless there was some exchange, and so Jl.1r: Story, who was stationed at Tocwocimba, a younger oilicer, was Reckhampton. Tha.t wa.s the reason exchange, and :i\/Ir. Crow-ther, by reason of his seniority, carried with him the bigger salary. Mr. Crowther had been in the department whilst Mr. Sterv had been mc,nrnnt.<erl he (Mr. Barncsf had been in

what might appear face of it, when it was ex­

no injustice at all to Mr. member fer Charters

Marshall at Charters excellent

but he the

been ~n very 1nany

a salary much ap•pcnn.tee. Hon. mom­

could not en­clcno.rtmcm1c. straight away

him to Charters Towers, and put him up to the limit received by other men who had been in the service for years.

Mr. MULLAN: How long has Mr. Marshall been in the service ?

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC WORKS: Mr. Marshall was appointed by himself, and although he was a capable officer, he had net been unfairly treated. Mr. Mar­shall was quite satisfied and was doing ex. cellent work in Charters Towers, and he might say-without in any way reflecting upon the previous oilicer-that IVlr. Mar­shall was able to get about quickly, which the other officer, through no fault of his own, could not de. The hon. member £or Charters Towers would admit that when that oilicer tr.ot to his office it was almost impossible for him to get out of it, so it was highlv desir­.able some change should be made. The hon. member for Herbert also referred to the question of " old chums " versus " new chums."

Mr. LENNON: New arrivals vensus old hands.

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC WORKS: He would put it that way if the hon. mem· ber preferred it.

Mr. LENNON: I much prefer it. The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC WORKS:

The policy of the department in regard to passes was that passes were not ordinarily issued unless some guarantee was given that

Hon. W. H. Barnes.]

2:398 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

the amount would be repaid. It would be ,ad­mitted that whilst there were a great num· bcr of people who wanted to get into the country who were bona fide-a big majority -there might be another lot who were not bona fide, and unless there was some re­striction the expenses would be unlimited.

Mr. THEODORE: Are only the new arrivals bona fide?

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC WORKS: The new arrivals had no preference over old hands. The Railway Department pro­vided passes for their own men, and evi­dently there had been some mistake in the minds of hon. members in that particular d1rection. The hon. member for Toombul called atention to the payments made to in­spectors of works. Let him say at once that the rates paid in Queensland for that par· ticular work compared more than favour­ably, in the main, with the rates paid in the other States. In some of the States the inspectors had to be architects, and then they only got £300. In his judgment, a maximum amount should be set down for some classes of work. Because a man was a clerk of works he should not expect to re­oeive an increase of £20 every year, because if that kind of thing happened they would be insolvent. There surely must be a limit ! Whether £280 was a fair limit-he admitted their responsibility, and perhaps it was not; all the same there must be a limit in regard to expenses in that connectien.

Hon. R. PHILP: What is the qualifica­tion? The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC WORKS:

The qualification for a clerk of werks was that he should thoroughly understand build­ing, and was .able to seB, .acting under ,an .architect, that good work was carried on.

Hon. R. PHILP : A good tradesman.

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC WORKS: Yes; a good tradesman was qualified for the position. He wished again to refer to the professional men in the department, and he quite admitted that what the hon. mom­bel' for Flinders stated was correct-they had lost some of their professional men, and possibly it was for the head of the depart­ment to see that that should nub continue, because they should not let their profes­sional men go if it could be proved that they were not paying them a fair salary. He would point out that Mr. Lodge came from Victoria in response to an advertise­ment, and he came very largely fer health reasons. He received, when he came, £210 per annum, and during his term of eighteen months he had been increased by £30 per annum. Surely no one would say that under those circumstances the department did not treat him faiT!y ! He had no cemplaint to make against l'.1r. Lodge, who was an excel­lent officer, and certainly he had no com­plaint to make against any officer who thought he could better his position by going somewhere else. His business exnerience led him to believe that if a man ;,vas dis­satisfied, it was very much better for that man to go. However capable, to keep a man against his will was very often a mis­take. But, of course, men had their rights, and they sheuld be maintained. Referring to the criticism of the hon. member for Maryborough, Mr. Beoker, who referred to the amount put down for the dairy at Gat­ton. The Secretary for Agriculture was extremely anxious that the Gatton College

[Han. W. H. Barnes.

should be a credit to the State, and he might say in this connection that there was no Minister who was more careful about the expenditure of Government money than the Secretary for Agriculture. The work at the college was being carried out under the supervision of Mr. Morry, who would take care that the money was well spent. The question of Government House had cropped up. If hon. members would look at the Estimates, they would see that the amount put down for that purpose was very small. "Fernberg" had also been tretted out. He was sure that the purchase of that place would prove a most satisfactory investment. He did not hesitate to say that if they were to sell " E'ernberg" to-morrow, . they ~ould get infinitely moTe than they paid for 1t.

Mr. THEODORE: In five years it will not be worth half what you gave for it.

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC WORKS: He did not wish to say anything with refer­ence to the remarks of the han. member for Burke. He was sure that when the hon. member read what he said in cold print he would deeply regret having spoken as he did. He thought that was the kindest way of replying to the hon. member's criticism. The hon. member for Cairns rB­ferred to the Cairns State School, and he was good ,enough to say that there had been a disposition on the part of the Go­vernment to trv to meet the requirements of Ce,irns, and" for that he was obliged to the hon. member. He was sure that the Secretary for Public Instruction would see that a fair thing was done by the Cairns State School. He could not share the feel· ings of the hon. member with regard to the courthouse in Cairns, though he shared to the full the hon. member's opinion with regard to the buildings that were used fer agricultural purposes in Cairns. They were a disgrace to Cairns and to the Government, and they were trying to 'rectify that condi­tion of things. Cairns, however, had not suffered in the matter of the expenditure of Government money. A persistent member like the bon. member for Cairns could always be relied upon to get justice for his constituents.

Mr. MuRPHY: I would he criticised me too much. me something. You have this year. (Laughter.)

him down if might give me nothing

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC WORKS: The hon. member had got pretty well every· thing he asked for. He had one very valu­able asset. He was always smiling, and was always on the best of terms with everyo':e in the Chamber, and by that means he dtd a great deal to preserve good humour. The hen. member for Woolloongabba suggested that they should devise some means by which inspectors should be enabled to move about a little more freely and not be in the hands of interested parties. It was a difficult problem to work out. There must be some attempt at economy, and it was hardly pos­sible to provide every inspector with a motor-car. The hon. member for Fitzroy made reference to a request for an inspector to visit Mount Morgan. There was no hon. member that he would like to oblige more than the hen. member, but he would remind him that the request had only been made within the last week, and it was not always possible to send an inspector at once, even to such a very important place as Mount

Supply. [2't NovEMBER.] Suppl,y. 2399

Morgan. They must be taken in order, but he could assure the hon. member-as he had .already been informed-that the matter would be attended to at the first oppor­tunity. Harking back to the question of the UnivBrsity, hB hopBd that .the CemmittBB would not do anything that might weaken the geed influBnce ef thB University, which already had made a very distinct mark upon the life of Queensland. The hon. mem­ber for Woothakata asked for information about the relative cost of day labour and contract labour, and reminded him that certain work, for which tenders had been called, had been turned down because the tenders were above the departmental esti­mate. The hon. member made special refer­ence to the kiosk in the Botanic Gar·dens. In connection with that building it was found necessary to make certain alterations,

•SO that any comparison could hardly be regarded as fair. In two other cases in which the amount of the tenders were con­sidered excessive, the department turned them down and did the work by day labour, and the saving to the department was very ·considerable.

Mr. LENNON' You have not made any reference to the proposed amendmen~ of the Machinery and Scaffolding Act.

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC WORKS: He was very much afra,id that it would not be possible to amend the Act this session, 'but he could inform hon. members that next week a Bill to amend the Wages Boards Act would be introduced.

HONOURABLE MEMBERS : Hear, hear ! Mr. THEODORE: The tender for the kioBk

was £1,200, and the departmental estimate was £700. Can you tell us what the work actually cost ?

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC WORKS: 'The departmental minute on the subject stat<'ld-

" The lowest tender received for the original plan A was £1,272.

" This work comprised in plan A was esti­mated by the department to be carried out by day labour at £973 12s. 2d.

" 'rhe actual cost of the building now com­pleted in accordance with plan B is £1,207 14s. lld.

" This work includes additional accommoda­tion, entailing more flooring, walling, roofing, '€to., the erection of separate outbuildings for -closets, stores, etc., in place of those provided originally inside building, extra drainage, con­'Crete floors, extra fittings, and other minor works. The extra works have cost £206 lOs. 4d. This amount should be deducted from the total cost to give the value of the work if the original plan A had been adhered to, which would equal £1,001 4s. 7d., or £27 12s. 5d. over the departmental estimate, and £270 15s. 5d. below the lowest tender received." It was not necessary for him to go into the details of the other tenders. ·

Mr. D. HUNTER' Can you give us the estimate of the ·department 'fer the Central 'Technical College, and whether the contract price came under it?

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC WORKS: He could give that information from memory. The department had! some fear, seeing that there had been a rise in thB price of material, that there would! be a danger that the tender would not be within the estimate, but the lowest tender, that of Mr. Mason, was £200 ·or £300 lBss than the estimated expenditure 'Of the department.

Mr. BARBER (Bttndaberg) had no.thing to complain about with r0gard to the public buildings in Bundaberg, because they were in very ,gocd order, and since he had been a member of the House. he had never advocated the spending of money in his electorate just for the sake of having it spent. That was a bad policy tO: pursue. There was one class of officer in the department who did not reeeive the consideration that they warranted, and that was the machinery and boiler in­spectors. When th~y considered the number of years that these men had to serv·e to acquire their ·experience-they had to serve their apprentioeship to makB themselves con­versant with all the technicalities of their profession--they should' r0ceive a better salary than they •did ·as inspootcrs. They werB under· paid. 'fhey had a lot of unpleasant work w do, and had fo get o.ut of a white shirt into dirty oweralls and go inside a boiler and look round the flues and tubes, and they should commence their work at a salary of £300 a year. He had no doubt if these men were engaged in private work they would command a bigg.er salary than they received from the department. Year after year he had drawn attention to the vast amount of work that the offi·Ger in charge of thB Bundaberg L<>bour Bur.Bau had to do, and it was distinctly unfair to that officer that he should be called upon to do the amount of work he had to do alone. He noticed that the number of registrations in Brisbane during last year was 4,810, while in, Bundaberg ther·e were 3,095 registrations. Although the registrations in Brisbane were practically two-fifths mow than were thDs·e• of Bundaberg, they must remember that they had a pretty consid'erabl0 staff in Brisbane, while in Bundaberg one man had to do the lot. In addition to that he had to attend tO: his work as inspector of factories and shops, and also to look vJter the administration of twenty-five wages boards' determinations. It was v·ery rarely that this officer got his half­day off either on the Thursday half-holiday or Saturday afternoon. When they had a good public servant like the Bundaberg super­intendent, who was an old pubiic officer, and a hard and conscientious worker, they should see the nBed of giving his some assistance.

Mr. MuRPHY' Un!.ess they are in league with the undertaker.

Mr. BARBER' In the early part of the year, at any rate, when men began to flock to Bundaberg to look for work in the sugar districts, some extra assistance should be sent to the labour office there. There were a lot of complaints alleged against this officer by the men because he did n0:t g.et round and attend to the shops and factories and other work, but it was absolutely impossible for that officer to get round and look after his outside work, owing to the. fact that he had to be constantly in the Dffice to attend to the regis­tration work. He was running up forty and fifty times a da:y from the surrounding mills asking for information about the supply of labour at the office, especially during the early part of tho year, and he had too much w attend to altogether. He would like some information about the InebriatBs' Institution at Peel Island. He could not find out any­thing about the number of inmates there or the r.esult of the work carried out there. It would be inter.esting to the community to know the number of people admitted and the measure of success that followed. In South Austra.lia they had •an Inebriates' Home which was successful owing to the adoption of the Neal system, which had been successful in

JJ.fr. Barber.]

2100 Suppl,y. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

75 per cent. of the cas.es that were admitted. A larg.e amount of money had

[9 p.m.] been spent on buildings in the Brisbane area, but h·e could no.t

see how it t'o he .avoid.ed. Thers was a big increase the population in Queensland, and the nceessary accommodation must be provided for the scho.ols in all parts of the State, and also in the metropolitan area, and it was only right that the Governmsnt should provide accommodation for the benefit of the scho.ol children, and for the buildings that requir&d extensions. But there was item to which he took strong exception, that was the erection of a new Government House. That item should be struck out.

Mr. D. HuNTER: It is not in this vot'e.

Mr. BARBER: He knew it was not on this Estimate but he thought it vras a mistake for Parliament to pass the money for the construction o.f a new building. "Jj'ernberg" should be big enough for the accommodation of the Governor. As some hon. members had pointed out, the time was speedily coming when we should be able to. do wrthout an imported Governor. From the people of our own State we should be able to elect a man who would be· capable c£ governing Queens­land equally as well as those gentlemen who came fro.m the other side of the water. At the same time, he rccognisBd that WB had a very excellent g<Jntleman as the present time. It had be·en by several hon. members that there was a con­siderable shortage of building material in the State He regretted very much that the Minister had not taken into fayourable con­sideration the snggestion made to him bv a deputa.tion which waited upon him some time ago, to make arrangements to start State brickyards. If any evidence was required to warrant the Government undertaking such a work, the experienoe of the sister State fur· nished that evidence, as they had proved that a State brickyard was an advantage to the building trade and .tc tho community as a whole. According to the Budget Sneech recently delivered by the Treasurer of South Australia, the Government of t.hat State were appropriating a sum of £10,000 for the pur­chase of land, and a further sum for ·the

· purchase of plant to make bricks, and also start •a State timber-yard. With regard to the extensions of the Government Printing Office,

·as far as he as a layman could judge they were· necessary. When the work was com­pleted' we should have a noble pi1e of build­ings which would be a credit to the State, and wh<Jn the splendid plant was installed under the supervision of the present manager our Printing Offi·ce would be •abJ.e to hold its own with any printing office in any part of the world. There had been some· humorous remarks made with reference to the statuary which had been placed~ on the new building. It had been stated by a number of members that they were placed there to perpetuate the memory of a certain Queensland statesman. If hon. members looked at the figures they would be. at once reminded of the person whom they were supposed to represent. Prob­ably the Minister for Works had also noticed the very close resemblance there was between one of those figures and a memher in another place, when he smiled. It was saidl that the other figure resembled very closely a Brisbane merchant, who occupied a very prominent position in colmection with the· Chamber of Commerce. He congratulated the Minister on having thus perpetuated the memory of an hen. gentleman who had for many years been connected with politics in this State.

[Mr. Barber.

He was to hear the .. Minister say possible would introduce a Bill to, the Wages Boards Act this session.

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC \VORKS: I hope to be able to give notice of it on Tuesday.

Mr. BARBER: That was v·ery encouraging, He hoped that some provision wo.ukl1 be made in that measure for shorter hours for men engaged in hairdressing saloons and in tobac­conist shops. He did not know whether the Minister intended to introduce this session a Bill to amend the Factories and Shops Act, but he thought the matter he had just referred to could be better dealt with in such a mea­sm'e than in a Vv ages Boards Bill. When an amendment of the Factories and Shops Act was introduced he hoped that provision would be made for a compulsory half-holiday all over Queensland.

The CHAIRMAN: Order ! Mr. BARBER:

from """"::'"'''"~ of the "'-''"'r'"'''""

it was pointed out several branches of

"mmr·nnnArrt. mill at Gin Gin were wages paid in private mills.

The SECRETARY PUBLIC WORKS: That has na: connection this vote.

:rnatter. on tho matt-er for the present.

in that mill the rates of wages were· even up to Ss. 1J. w&ek in oome cases 1ess than what was being paid in private mills _in the· district. He had r'cceived a commumcatwn from the department pointing out that they came under the. Macka.y vVa.ges Board. bu~ what on earth had the :Mackay Wages _Board. to do with them in the South-eastern drstnct, he could not understand.

The CHAIRMAN : Order ! The hon. member is out of order. If he debates that question hon. members will want to.· reply to

Mr. WIENHOLT said there was a ten­dencv on the part of hon. members one· moment to advocate further expenditure,. and another moment to warn the Govern­ment not to spend too much money. But there was one thing that he thought was worth while mentioning, and it was the duty of anyone who had the chance of pointing it out to do so. That was the proposed new expenditure on Government House. They had spent a lot of money there lately, ·and· he felt sure that that was quite sufficient for the Governor's residence.

Mr. LENNO:i: Hear, hear! Mr. WIENHOLT: He simply mentioned

this now heoause he thought the worst thing that could happen to any tGovernment, was for its supporters to be afraid to get up and point out where they were doing a wrong thing. That one particular expendi­ture was the only thing he found fault with. He thought it was unnecessary, a>;d h_e hoped the Government would not brmg rt· forward, because he, for one, would feel in­clined to vote against it. (Hear, hear!)

Mr. FOLEY had listened with great attention to the replies of the Minister to­the various criticisms that had been offered to the Estimates of his department, andi

Supply. [24 NovEMBER.] Suppl!J. 2401

he appeared to aw•wer every criticism in a fair and reasonable way, at least to his own satisfaction. He wished to refer to the way in which the Factories and Shops Act was being administered in Townsville. They found from the report of the inspector that, in regard to the minimum wage clause, fac­tories appeared to be the greatest trans­gressors-in fact, payments amounting to considerable sums had been collected and paid over to the employees for arrears of wages. Last year he had asked the House to appoint a female inspector for Townsville and the North generally. He was satisfied that there was sufficient work between Townsville, Charters Towers, and Cairns to keep a female inspector constantly em­ployed, but all they could get from the head of the department last year was a visit of the female inspector to Townsville for a short time. She went to Charters Towers for about a fortnight, then came to Towns­ville on her way down, and did a fortnight there. 'While she was there she found a large number of cases where young girls employed in factories and dressmakers' establishments had not been paid the mini­mum wage to which they were entitled. Some of the employers paid them nothing at all, in some cases 2s. 6d. when the law provided that they should be paid 5s. a week; As the report said, the employer was m several cases compelled to make good those wages, but there were numbers of cases where this had not been done, and the result was that the girls were suffering because there was no one to look after their interests. The girls employed in a factory or shop would have more confidence in a female inspector than they would in a man, who might not appear to be sympathetic towards them, and for that reason a female inspector should be employed in that district, where there wa,s a larg? number of girls employed. There was suffiment work to keep a female inspector employed between the three places he had mentioned all the year round. He did not think an annual visit by a female inspector from Brisbane for about a fort­night was sufficient in the Northern part of the State, and he urged upon the Minis­ter the necessity of appointing an inspector in the North. Last year he received letters from Townsville from women who were fully qualified, applying for appointment to the position, but he was told that it was the intention of the department to send the female inspector up from Brisbane periodi­cally. He brought the matter before the Minister again with the hope that some­thing would be done to rectify the grievance. There was another matter he wished to call attention to-that was the early-closing sec­tion of the Factories and Shops Act. It said-

" The provisions as to closing hours have been well observed in European shops, but the Chinese have been the cause of numerous com­plaints of selling groceries and fireworks after hours. Legal proceedings wel'e instituted against twelve of them."

Last year he had occasion to bring this matter before the Treasurer, in his capacity of Minister for Works, and he had pointed tmt, from letters which he had received from Townsville, and some which were published in the local Press, that many flagrant breaches of the Act were being committed, and that nothing was being done to rectify those grievances. He read a letter which

1911-7H

showed that two European tradesmen had gone out after hours, and taken a 'bus ride round the suburbs, and gone into fifteen Chinese shops to buy prohibited goods-in fourteen of them they· were served with goods, and in the other one they were re­fused. These men did this to find out for themselves whether the law was being broken or not. The Minister at that time told him that the department were doing all they could to prevent this, and had instituted proceedings against certain Chinamen for breaches of the Act. He had questioned the Minister's remarks at the time, and the Minister went to his Chief Inspector, and came back with the assurance that no less than twelve or fourteen summonses had been issued. He had sent a copy of his speech in H ansa1·d to Townsville, and he got a telegram back immediately to say that no summonses had been issued up to that time, which must have been nine days after the Hon. the Minister made the statement here. He asked a question of the Minister as to the number of prosecutions and the penalties inflicted. The Minister could not give him the information then, and asked him to wait, and he waited some three days before he got the information. In the meantime he found, from information he got from Townsville, that five summonses had been issued between the time he had asked the question and the time the Minister answered it. Though that action was taken just then, he did not know of any further action being taken, and he was satisfied that breaches of the law were as bad as ever. If the inspec· tor was not able to do the work, another inspector should be appointed, or the police should be made inspectors under the Act. There were forty-five shops kept by Chinese in Townsville that were really grocers' shops, though they were supposed to sell fruit and soft drinks, and any article of grocery could be got there at any hour ·Of the day or night. This was not fair> to the European tradesmen who observed the Act, and something should be done to prevent these aliens from breaking the law and unduly competing with men who were en­deavouring to carry it out. There should be sufficient officers to see that the Act was carried out, and it should not be necessary for respectable tradespeople to go round to get evidence against the Chinese who broke the law. The summonses to which he referred were issued just before Christmas last year, and those tradesmen were called as witnesses, and were thus brought into a notoriety which they did not desire. The law dealing with this matter was a good one, but if it was not administered as it should be, it would be better off the statute­book. With regard to the remarks of the

hMinister touching his visit to the North, he

ad the honour of going round with the hon. gentleman to the various schools in Towns­ville and pointing out necessary repairs; and he admitted that in most cases the department had carried out the promises which the hon. gentleman then made. He wanted to thank the Minister now for what had been done in connection with the Ross Island State School, the result of which was for the benefit of both teachers and children. He liked to give credit where credit was due, and he only complained when there was something to complain about.

Mr. O'SULLIY AN' (11 ennecty) wished to bring under notice the need of getting work

Mr. 0' Sttlliva,n.]

2402 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

·done by contractors passed as quickly as possible after it was completed. In his ·electorate there were many little townships where contractors took on the renovation or alteration of schools and other public build­ings, and after the work was completed they had to wait a considerable time before they could draw the amount of the contract. A deposit had to be put down before the work was commenced, and this waiting was a great inconvenience to a small contractor. Another thing, his attention had been drawn to some of the work that had been passed by the inspectors, particularly painting. There was one public building painted by .a contractor, and if anyone leaned up :against it four or five months after the job "was done, the fluff of his clothing would be }eft on the paint. If the contract system bad to be adopted for these little jobs, the department should insist on good material being used. The practice of accepting the lowest tender was often the cause of bad ·work. The result of that practice was that a man who would do a faithful job for 10 per cent. more than the lowest tender was ·overlooked; and he was of opinion that it would be better to give the work to a man who asked a reasonable price, in prefer­ence to always giving it to the lowest ten­derer. It was brought under his notice that one contractor had to wait three months for the amount of his contract. . The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC WORKS: That JS a serious hardship, I admit.

Mr. {!'SULLIVAN: He had to put down .a deposit; then he had to employ a tinsmith and pay him; and then he had to wait a long time for the inspector to come round aJid pass the work. Several hon. members on both sides of thB_ House had expressed their dis·apprQ.val at the .amount of money to he spent on the Gov-ernor's residence. He did not think that was necessary, and in common with other members he wished to enter his protest against it. While they wanted money

. spent in the far Western and also [9.30 p.m.] the Northern parts of the, State,

there was no need to spend money uselessly on a palatial residence for the Governor. In his electorate there were a lot of little schools which required play­sheds where the children could take their meals and be protected from the hot noon­<lay S';'-n, and that was more necessary than spendmg money on a Governor's residence.

Mr. PAYNE {Mitchell): A good deal had been said by members on both sides. of the House in reference to schools and playsheds .and that brought to his mind an instanc~ where an application was made to the de­partment some considerable time ago for a playshed at Ilfracombe. He was not one of those who thought that because a playshed was wanted in his district it should be erected before doing work in other electorates; but, if there was a place in Queenslan,d where a -playshed should be built, it was at Ilfra­combe, b.ecause the sun's rays at that place were very hot, and the children should have ·some protection. He understood that tenders bad been called for that particular playshed. The:t:e was only one tender received, and it was considered rather high, but even if the 'tender was rather high, the department <should not stop at that. It was not a fair thiilg not to provide the children away out m those open downs with som0 shed in which ·to play. He was sorry to say there were not ceven bush trees for them to get under.

[Mr. O'S1.tllivan.

He also understood that some highly neces­sary repairs were required to the teacher's t·esidence. The unfortunate plllrt was that the department did some little repairS and left other necessary repairs undone. He did not k11ow why they did not complete the whole of the repairs while they were at it. From this on, in that particular locality, he could say unhesitatingly that they woul~ have five to six months hot weather, and 1t was not a fair thing to the youngsters there to say they should have no decent place to play in. They had no place to enable them to get shelter from the wet or the SUJ:!.

Ques~ion put and passed .

BUILDINGS.

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC WORKS moved that £139,650 be grante4 for "Bu~ld­ings." He had said so mu?h m connectw?­with that item on the· prevwus vote that It was unnecessary for him to go over the ground again.

BoN. R. PHILP: Last year they voted £87,376 for that purpose, and they were asked to vote £139,650 this year, and that seemed a very big increase. Of course no­body would vote against school buildings. They all wanted schools, and nobody would vote against hospitals, but the amount of

,. £20,000 for repairs was too much. He knew how Estimates were prepaJ::ed. The depart­ment sent in the Estimates, and they would spend millions if ~he ~1inister was . s~ft enough to accept their estimate. The ~Ims· ter should have gone through those Items very carefully and should not have asked the Committee to vote that amount. It was t<;>o much. He noticed there was no amount m the list at all for the new Governm!Jnt Jtouse, and they would not have an onportumty of voti11g on that matter. They had taken so much time over the other Estimates :hat that matter would go by the board. when the tu;ne was un for discussing the Estimates. H<; m­tended to move a reduction in the It'!m "Brisbane, University of Queensland, Eqmp­ment, £12,500." That was too much. It was the greatest mistake possible to !SC\ OJ?- spe!ld­ing money on the present UmversitY. SI~e. Although that site was adopted by a maJO':Ity of the House, he felt satisfied if the ~hip.g had been thoroughly thrashed out, a ma]onty would not have voted for Government House site at all. It was not suitable, and there was not sufficient ground round it for colleges. It would never he a successful Queensland University unle~s there ~as ample room fo.r colleges round It. It might be a good Uni­versity for Brisbane, but they wanted a Queensland University. They would never get the parents of boys and girls living at a distance to send their children heN, because they ·wanted a college under the supervision of some of the masters to look after their boys and girls. At the present time _they had to board out, which was very unsatisfac~ory. Since the University had been esabhshed there was a ;growing feeling that a mistake was made in fixing that site. He understood that the authorities of the University thought the site was a mistake. To his mind, the proper site for the University was where the Government proposed to put up the Govern­ment House, in Victoria Park. There were nearly 200 acres of land there altogether, and he understood 40 acres had been reserved for Government House, and the Government had handed over 60 acres to the municipality. When he was Minister he refused to hand

Supply. [24 NovEMBER.] Supply. 2403

ithat site over to the municipality, as the park should be onen to the public. Universitv .grounds were just as open to the public as a park, and the whole of that site ought to have been kept for the University. It was not too late to reconsider the matter as the present University could be used for the Art Gallery and Museum. It was a much more desirable site for an art gallery than the present site, and the grounds would then be available to the public of Queensland. He intended to move that the vote for Univer­.sity equipment be reduced by £500 for a twofold reason. He thought £12,000 was far too much, and he would like the Com­mittee to mark their disapproval of the site .and the cost of the University equipment. Nobody could say he was opposed to the University. Nobody spoke more in favour .of the University than he did, and he thought they wanted a University in Queensland as much as they wanted a technical college. They had one now, and they should have one that was worthy of the State of Queens­land, and on a site where it could be more truly a University of Queensland than on the present site. A majority of members had 'voted for the present site, but hon. members •could make mistakes sometimes.

Mr. MURPHY: The hon. member for -Cairns moved an amendment that this was the wrong site.

HoN. R. PHILP: He remembered that, .and he thought that, if the amendment had been moved by the senior member for Bris­.bane North, it would have been carried. It made no difference to him who moved cthe amendment, as he had voted with the hon. member for Cairns. It was not too .late now to go over the ground again and have the matter thrashed out. He was told ·that alre.ady the Senate had asked for a more suitable site, and they had been ori•m:ld Yeronga Park. That might be a suitable· place, but it was not sufficiently central for

. a University. He hoped that the Committee would agree to the amendment.

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC WORKS: 'The Secretary for Public Instruction, who was more closely in touch with the exact -expenditure necessary for the equipment, could deal with that phase of the question, but he (Mr. Barnes) would like briefly to refer to the criticism of the hon. member for Townsville. The question of the site ·was really settled two years ago, and in ·coming to the decision they then came to ·two things were taken ·into consi·dera­·tion. A majority of hon, members, rightly or wrongly, agreed that the site chosen was ·the most central. Some members on the .other side thought that that was the best ·site, and others thought that some other site would have been preferable, but the fact remained that the motive that was para­mount at the time was to select the site which would be most useful to the com­munity as a whole. A committee of educa­·tional experts was appointed to decide which was the most suitable site, having in view the fact that they were going to have both a University and a Central Technical College. He (Mr. Barnes) made a statement ~which he had ;no hesitation in repeating now-that of the two institutions the more important to Queensland, in his estimation, was an up-to-date Central Technical College.

'The idea was-very largely for the purpose of economising--to provide an equipment f?r the University which would also be avail-

able for the Central Technical College, and handy for those who used the college at night­time. It w1as felt that if the Central Technical College was put in a place that was not easy of access, it would press most severely upon the boy or the girl who had the least opportunity. The idea was to make it pos· sible for every boy and every gir I not to be handicapped by having to go some extreme distance to get to the Central Techni­cal College on the one hand, and on the other the idea was that, for purposes of economy, a great deal of the equipment for the two institutions should be in common, and for that reason there would be a saving of expenditure, and, further, it would not be necessary to have two sets of professors to deal with certain subjects. The aim of the Government was to help those who were least able to help themselves to obtain edu­cational advantages. It was ascertained where the students of the Central Technical College were coming from, and it was found­as far as could be gathered from the informa­tion supplied-that the site selected was the most suitable on account of its being the most central.

Mr. BouCHARD: That applied to the South Brisbane site. ·

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC WORKS: It was some little time ago, but, speaking from memory, something like 43 per cent. of the students came from the south side of the river.

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC INSTRUCTION: More than that.

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC WORKS: The hon. gentleman would no doubt be able to supply hon. members with the exact figures. The University and the Central Technical Colleg.e had scarcely got going yet. Another fact that must not be forgotten was that a contract had been let for £64,000 for a Central Technical CollegB .

Mr. RYLAND: That shows how wrong it is to do work by contract.

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC WORKS: A great many members on the other side thought the Government House site was the best.

Hon. R. PiHILP: There is no need for the University and the Central T·echnical College to be togBther at all. They have separa:te. equipmBnts now.

The PREMIER : The mechanical engineer· ing, civil engineering, and physics equip­menta are the same.

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC WORKS: As the Premier pointed out, in many depart­ments the same equipment was being used, as it was deemed advisable that they should economise as best they could. The Secretary for Public Instruction would be able to show the Committee that, instead of there having been any extravagance in regard to equipment, the greatest care had been taken. When the papers came before him in the Works Department, they were returned, and no sanction was given to the expenditure until he was assured that it was the smallest amount that would suffice. What would be the use of either the University or the Central Technical College unless they had the neces­sary equipment? Surely it would be a waste of money to have either institution, and he hoped that hon. members would confirm the action of the 1Government by their votes.

Han. W.H. Barnes.]

2404 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

Mr. LENNON was going to support the amendment, though not for exactly the same reason as was given by the senior member for Townsville in moving it. He was one of those who supported the present Uni­versity site, and up to the present he had not seen any reason for altering that opmwn. It was a very good placo to make a start in, and later on, perhaps, another site might be found which would be more suitable. His object was to show that he was protesting against the expenditure of something like £30,000 on Government House. Already some money had been spent in preparing the land and excavating the site. He did not know the amount, but there was a sum of £5,000 on the Loan Esti­mates for that purpose.

The PREMIER: I think about £2,000 has been spent altogether.

Mr. LENNON : He was very sorry to hear that it was proposed to spend £30,000 on a new Government House. They would not have a chance of voting on that this year, as -it would be scuttled through the House on the last day of the session. He did not want to deprive the people of a University, and he did not want to interfere with the present arrangements with regard to a Uni­versity. That was a matter that could be decided later on, but he would support the amendment.

Mr. PAYNE supported the amendment for two or three reasons. One of his prin­cipal reasons was that they could never make a healthy University on that particular site. Another reason· was that he did not think that the only park-the only breathing space in the city-should be interfered with. He had heard it said that the present Botanic Gardens would not be interfered with by the University buildings, but he knew that they would be interfered with. If the University was built there, there would be a consider­abl·a curtailment of the privileges the· public would have for walking through the Botanic Gardens, and when the question was before the House before, he said the same thing in his own humble way. (Laughter.)

Mr. MuRPHY: I thought you were joking, Jack. ·(Laughter.)

Mr. PAYNE : On that occasion he said they would never get a healthy place for a University on the present site. In making a start they wanted to lay the foundation for a University not for a year or two, .but for all time. They heard the other mght that this particular site would fall in for something else. He believed that the Pre­mier himself in speaking in the House said that the present site would not be a per­manent site for ·.a University.

The PREMIER : I did not say so. It will remain the permanent site.

Mr. MuRPHY: You can't shift it every year.

Mr. PAYNE: He understood that a con­siderable area of land · was acquired for University purposes elsewhere.

The PREMIER : When residential colleges were advocated for the University, the House set itself against sectarian colleges. It is only for sports grounds .and colleges that the Senate are talking about. There is enough space on the present site for a University for the next century.

Mr. PAYNE : He knew that the House was not in favour of sectarian colleges. He

[Mr. Lennnn-.

wanted nothing of the sort himself. That. was only draggmg a herring across the track_ Surely it was within the power of the House to say if they were going to have sectarian colleges or not, and the House could block any sectarian colleges being erected there. If they were laying the foundation of a University in Brisbane, they should lay it. for all tim€\.

The PREMIER: For a century. Mr. PAYNE: For all time. The PREMIER : It will do for a century on

the present site. Mr. PAYNE: Is there breathing space

there in an honest way for a University? (Laughter.)

The PREMIER : Can you breathe in a dis­honest way. (Laughter.)

Mr. PAYNE : They were going to inter­fere with the Botanic Gardens if they had the University on its present site. The Pre­mier could shake his head, but he did not know what was going to happen in 150 years. any more than anyone else. It did not follow that because he was Premier at the present time he had all the brains in the world.

The PmmiER : You are a very humble man all right. (Laughter.)

Mr. PAYNE : Every member of the House· had certain ideas, and he should be listened to. It was a wilful waste of money to attempt to build a University for Queensland for all time on the present site.

Mr. BOOKER was against the amendment .. He regretted that the senior member for­Townsville w;as not able to move an amend­ment in the direction of cutting out any ex­penditure in connection with the proposed new Government House. He quite understood' that the senior member for Townsv11le was moving the amendment as a matter of principle. He was against the amendment for the reason that the House decided upon the present sit-e for a Central Technical Col-­lege and University. There was no vote that he regretted so much as the vote he g•ave to haYe the University established on the pre­sent site. But the work had been begun and the contracts let, and if the amendment were carried it would be a very grave mis-­take. It would mean that the Central Techni­cal College would not. be established, and it would be a decided loss to the people for whom they were erecting the Central Techni-­cal College. The principle the senior member­for Townsville was dealing with did not come· in in this vote. If the hon. member for Townsville could have moved his amendment on the other vote, he (Mr. Booker) would have been very pleased to give his vote· with him, but he regretted that he could not do. it, just as he regretted the vote he gave for having the University and Central Technical_ College on the present site.

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC IN­STRUCTION (Hon. K. M. Grant, Rock­hampton) : The real reason for moving the amendment did not come up on that vote at­all. The House deci·ded the site for the University when they sanctioned the estab­lishment of a University. What were the-­reasons that actuated the House in deciding: on the present ~ite?

Hon. R. PHILP: False pretences. The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC IN­

S'l.'RUCTION: It was that it was desirous­that tecnnical education should be taught there, t,hat the gradual work of education.

Supply. [24 NovEMBER.] Supply. 2435

-could be got;e through in Queensland right :from the pnmary school to the University. Jt was agree~ tha~ the Central Technical Col­lege and Umvers1ty should be run together. .They . had 2,000 students at the Central Technwal Colleg.e at the present time.

Hon. R. PHILP: And how many at the University?

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC iN­STRUCTION: There were seventy students at the University.

Hon. R. PHILP: How many Central Techni. cal College students go to the University?

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC IN­STRUCTION: He could not give the .sxact .number, but there were a fair number who, went_ to the University. As the Minister for Publw Works explained, it was decided to have the University and Central Technical College side by side, so that a great deal of expense could/ be saved in providing equip­ment, as what was go,t for the Central Techni­cal College would do for the University. Take :the chemistry classes and the classes for en­gineering. An arrangement had been made with the senate that the Central Technical College stude';lts, ~fter ,doing four years at the Central Techmcal Colle!l'e, would be ac­cepted as though they were students for two year~ at the University. They would get c;red1~ for t):lat work and go up for matricula­·twn m the1r fifth year, and ail the time they would be under the superintendence of the professors of tho University. By an arrange­ment between the Central Technical College and the University the_y had asked Professor Gibson and Professor Steele to take superin­tendence over the· Central Technical College, and see that the work there was up to the :Standard. The reasons that actuated the House in deciding to have the University on its present site were that th.sy wanted the Central Technical College and University to­gether. The greater proportion of the students attending the Central Technical Collerre came from South Brisbane. .All those who ;ttended would be_ served much better by having the .Present s1te than if the site wene in Victoria Park. It was absolutely necessary that the University and the Central Technical College should be together. Tbe Victorian Gov,ern­:men~ appointed a _commission not long ago to .cons1der the questwn of the Central Technical

College and University in that [10 p.m.] State, and after seeing the plan

adopted in Queensland, they came "to the decision to folio,~ the same plan, and have the Central Techmcal College and Uni­versity together, and thus co-ordinate the higher branches of education. The reason the hon. member for Herbert gave for supporting :the amendment was the most extraordinary he h3;d! ever listened to,. If the hon. member had ·sa1d bluntly that purely political reasons in­duced him to vote for the amendment he would have acted honestly and straightfo.rwardly. The other vote to which the hon. member r·efen~ed had no connection with this matter, and hon. members would have an opportunity of giving expression to their opinions o,n that vote later on. But the hon. member for Herbert voted for the present site of the University, ·and yet he was now ~SOing to vote· for the amendment, which, if carried, would have the effect of closing down the University. The whole amount of £17,500 was necessary for the Central Technical Col1ege and the Univ;ersity. He would read the items which made up that £17,500. There was machinery for applied mechanics, £497: heat engines, £7,244; hydraulic engines, £1,633; testing of materials, £3,552; electrical

machinery, £2,382; surveying, £454; instru­ment shop, £150; er·ection, £1,000. Those were the items which made up the £17,500, and_ they were absolutely necessary for the Umvers1ty. If hon. members desir.ed that th~t equipment vote should be cut down, they m1ght as well say that they were going to spoil the usefulness of the University. next y.ear. The senate were strongly imbued with the idea that this equipment was necessary. They had given four months' leave of absence to Professor Gibson to go to the old country to buy the very best machinery that they required. Professor Gibson had the plans of the buildings, and knew what machines would fit in the places arranged for them, and the senate w.ere under the impression that they would save £1,000 by sending hi_m home, because he would get special concessions from the manufacturers. The whole of that money had he.EJn absolutely appropriated; just as much as the vote for new schools had been appropriated.

~!fr. _THEODORE: Then why do you say that th1s w11l stop the usefulness of the institution?

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC IN­STRUCTION: If the Committee cut down the vote for equipment, it would spoil the usefulness of the institution. The machinery would be used for both the University and the Central Technical College.

Hoi!. R. PHILP : Where will it be put up?

The SECRETARY" FOR PUBLIC IN­STRUCTION:. In the new buildings they were now erectmg.

Mr. O'SuLLIVAN: It could be put up in Victoria Park just as well.

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC IN· STRUCTION: After they had let a contract for nearly £70,000, would they put up another building which would cost equally as much?

Mr. MuRPHY: Has that contract been com­menced?

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC IN­STRUCTION: The contractor had been working at it for months; and, if the work was stopped, and they said they would not spend another penny on it, the contractor would have a claim for compensation against the Government. If the Government, in ad­dition to that, spent an equally large sum of money in Victoria Park, they could very justly be accused of extravagance. He was rather amused at hearing the hon. member for Balonne, saying that the Central Technical College was merely for the sons of rich people, and a useless extravagance. As a matter of fact, nearly all the students who attended the Central Technical College were the sons of poor parents, and every tram fare they paid was a matter of concern to them. By having this machinery the college would be able to give .a much better education ·to technical college students than they were giving now. A number of the students attending the Uni­versity were also the sons of poor parents. The parents of one of them resided at Long­reach, and he came down here to attend the University, and had to live on £52 a year, which was the allowance he gained by win­nir)_g a scholarship.

Mr. THEODORE: You are putting up a poor defence for the extravagance of the Govern­ment in this matt(')r.

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC IN­STRUCTION: Extravagance ! The whole question was this : Did hon. members desire to have a University ? If they desired to have a University, then every item he had

Hon. K. M. Grant.]

240f:i Sttpply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

mentioned was absolutely required. If they did not want a University,' then let them cut out the whole of the items, and they would do without a University. We were not doing as much for education as they were doing in some other places. At a compara­tively small place in California called Oak­lands, with a nonulation of 200,000, they had a State tax and a local tax for education, and, in addition to that, the people taxed themselves to the extent of £600,000 for three years for the purpose of building new secondary schools and a University. And here hon. members were cavilling about a vote of £17,500 for the University!

Mr. O'SULLIVAN: I cavil at the site.

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC IN­STRUCTION: The hon. member should have cavilled at the site last year.

Mr. O'SuLLIVAN: I did. The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC IN­

STRUCTION: That matter was settled then, and it was beside the question now before the Committee. If the hon. member desired a new site, he must foot another bill of £100,000. Was the House prepared to spend that amount of money when they had every­thing required at the University now? There was any amount of room for new colleges, if required. The objection taken by the senate to the site was that the sports ground was not big enough, but the building was suitable, and the professors were satisfied with it. But they said there was no room for a cricket and football ground there, and that was the only objection that had been taken by the senate and by the professors.

Mr. THEODORE: You have not justified the increase of this vote by £52,000 yet.

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC IN­STRUCTION: He was dealing with tho equipment of the University, which he understood from members who had spoken was the question before the Committee. The contract for the building had been let for £64,000, and they could not touch that. He was defending--but, rather, it required no defence. He was now stating that it required £17,500 for equipment. That was the bare minimum on which they could establish engineering, chemistry, and physics classes. The University had been particularly for· tunate in getting a staff of able and young men with any amount of energy and ambi­tion, and a desire to have the Queensland University second to none. They had one of the best chemists in the world. In Pro­fessor Gibson they had a man who had made the classes at the Sydney University success­ful.

Mr. HAMILTON: Wherever you have the University, the staff will be the same.

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC IN­STRUCTION: If it came down to that, there was no objection taken to the equip­ment. That, he took it, was the opinion ·of hon. members opposite.

Mr. O'SULLIVAN: Yes. We object to the site.

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC IN­STRUCTION: Then members who voted for the amendment moved by the hou. member for To.wnsviile were voting against their convictions, because they said the equip­ment was actually wanted. None of them denied that the equipment was wanted.

Mr. O'SULLIVAN: The equipment would be wanted, whether at Victoria Park or her'e.

JHon. K. M. Grant.

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC IN­STRUCTION: They said the machinery waeo wanted for the proper equipment of the University, that this machinery that Pro­fessor Gibson had gone home to buy was actually required. Then, if they must have· another site they must be--

Mr. LENNON: You are the only one who· has mentioned it.

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC IN­STRUCTION: That was exactly what the money was for. The £17,500 in the Esti­mates that they were now discussing was tO' buy machinery for the equipment of the University.

Mr. HARDACRE: Nobody is voting against: it on those grounds.

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC IN­STRUCTION: That was the most extra­ordinary thing he had ever heard. Here' were members, supposed to be intelligent members of the House, who said they were altogether in favour of the £17,500 on the Estimates--

Mr. LENNON: Nobody said one ·word about it.

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC IN­STRUCTION: And they said they werEl' going to vote to cut it down to £500; and why?

Mr. MuRPHY: Because you are going to· build Government House in Victoria Park. (Laughter.)

Mr. LENNON: That is it. The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC IN­

STRUCTION: They were in this position: That they were altogether in favour of what they were going to vote ·against-in favour of the equipment, but they said they· did not agree to the site. If they must have· another site, they must be prepared · to spend another £100,000 in putting buildings. up there.

Mr. MURPHY: And next year they may· want another site somewhere else.

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC IN:.. STRUCTION : He was sorry the hon. mem­ber for Townsville had moved the reduction. In justice to the hon. member, he would say that no one had taken a keener interest in University matters than the hon. member had. Not onlY had he said it in words, but he had proved it by more than that. But in this case members on the other sid0' were voting for purely political reasons. (Opposition laughter and disse11t.)

HoN. R. PHILP was rather surprised at the remarks of the Minister for Education, who said: "Why are- we .asked to vote Esti-. mates at all ?" He said he had spent this money practically. -·

The SlilORETARY FOR PuBLIC INSTRUCTION : Appropriated it.

HoN. R. PHILP: But he had no right to do it without asking permission of the House. (Hear, hear!) The Central Technicar College, he maintained, was still in the wrong­site, but they must go on with it; but there was no necessity to have the University with the Central Technical College. He asked the Minister for Education what teacher of the­University was also teaching at the Central Technical College? Not one of them.

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC INSTRUCTION : But the college is under their charge. Pro­fessor Gibson is inspector of the Central Technical Colleg.e.

Supply. [24 N OVEMBEB.J Suppl;g. 2407

HoN. R. PHILP: He might be, and if it was 2 or 3 miles away he could still inspect it. Mr. Kidston, the late Premier, was o.f opinion that if they had a Central Technical College here students would go to both places at the same time. He did not believe a single Central Technical College student at the pre­sent time was likely to do it.

The SEORE·rARY FOR PUBLIC INSTRUCTION : We have a number.

HoN. R. PHILP: It took .all their time to get a degree by going to a Univ·ersity every ·day in their life.

Mr. RYLAND: 'l'hey do not work together.

HoN. R. PHILP: They never would work tog>ether. The Central Technical College should have gone on the site in Roma street, where all the railways and tramways came in. The more money they spent on the present site of the University, the more they would regret it by and by. It was only the Uni­versity he was speaking of now, and no _Go­vernment had a right to spend money without asking this House first. They were asked to spend £17,000-the money had been spent, practically. They had no right to do it: He wanted to point out to the Minister for Education that he (Mr. Grant) voted against the University in this House at one time. Why all this new fooling for Universjty ex­tension? The hon. gentleman had no right to say that anyone was giving a vote for political purposes. He (Mr. Philp) was against that site, and had been from the beginning. He had been offered ·a seat on the senate by the Minister for Works, but he refused to go there; he told him that there would be continual trouble in the senate because of the site.

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC WORKS: Quite so.

HoN. R. PHILP: So long as the Univer­sity remained there it would never be the success it ought to be-never be a Queens­land University. There was no thought of building sectarian colleges; it was never menti~ned. TJ::ey <:mght to have colleges alongside .a Umversity. They said the pre­sent .site was central, but a far more central site was in Victoria Park, and a more central site for the Central Technical College would be at Roma street; but for some reason the late Premier had an idea that the college and University ought to be together, and he had fixed on Government House which was 'a mistake. The man who had 'taken more pains and trouble than anyone else with the University of Que·ensland was Sir Samuel Griffith, .and he had asked his opinion. Sir Samuel said that he was utterly disgusted with the site, and that the University would never be a success because of the site. The senate now complained that there was no room for football and cricket. It was not o,nly for to--day or next year, but for all time .. He would say advisedly that it would be WISe even now to start and build the University in Victoria Park. It was too late with the Central Technical College, as the contract was let; but the fact of the Uni­versity and the Central Technical College being 2 miles apart would not affect the thing. Hon. members who opposed the pre­sent site were just as keen of making a success of the institution as the Minister was. It was only of late that he had shown any keenness in the matter at all, and he hoped no member would be deterred from voting as he thought fit in this matter.

The bell indicated that the hen. member's time had expired.

HoN. R. PHILP: His reason for moving the amendment was to ask the opinion of the House about the site. The new Government House was not in this vote, <J.nd he could not v0te against it; if it was, he would vote for a re.duction of £5,000 in it.

Mr. MURPHY said that all- the argu­ments now used by the hon. member for Townsville in connection with the University site were used when the question was last considered by hen. members. On that occa­sion the hon. member for Cairns moved an amendment in regard to the site, pointing out that in his opinion the site was an abso­lutely wrong one, and suggesting that the Victoria Park site would be better; but. the House, by a large majority, decided that the University should be on the Go­Yernment House site. To-night they learned that the reason that site was taken and the amendment was rejected was because it came from the hon. member for Cairns. If it was in the interests of the University and of the people of Queensland that the Vic­toria Park site should have been selected, it seemed strange that the majority should vote against the proposal because it was moved by the hon. member for Cairns. But he did not think that had anythin(f to dq with the matter.

HoNOURABLE MEMBERS : No. Nut at ali.

Mr. MURPHY: There was placed before­members a report specially prepared by a. committee appointed by the Government to deal with the question, and in that report they recommended the site adopted. How could this Parliament, after having in the University Bill instructed the Government that the old Gov·ernment House site was to be selected, now condemn the Government for having carried out the wishes o.f Par­liament? It would be perfectly absurd. It would be just as reasonable for the next Parliament, after money had been spent on Victoria Park, to condemn the Government for spending that money; and say that the University should be at Yeronga. He recol­lected that the hon. member for Townsville recommended that the Central Technical C-ol­lege should be at Roma street.

Hon. R. PHILP: That is so.

Mr. MURPHY: The House having de­cided that it should be placed in the Botanic Gankms, what, then, was to be gained by moving a reduction in the matter of equip­ment? The hon. gentleman pointed out that one of the best reasons for the estab­lishment of a University in Queensland was that we would be able to train our own mining engineers. He was just as much against large expenditure on a new Govern­ment House as any other member, and if a. reduction was moved in regard to that exnenditure he would support it; but because he was against the expenditure of £30,000 for Government House, was that any reason why he should vote for the amendment moved by the hon. member for Townsville? On t.he last occasion that the question was before them he voted .against the present site ; but the 'Government had let the contract for the Central T'echnioal College; the work had been commenced ; and the State was involved in an expenditure of £70,000. How could the Government be asked to go back on that?

. Mr. Murphy.}

2408 AdJournment. [COU.E\CIL.]

Hon. R. PHILP : I do not seek to alter the £70,000. That is past.

HONOURABLE MEMBERS : Question, question ! Mr. MURPHY: There was no possibility

of getting the vote through to-night. They were told that a reason could be found for voting in favour of the amendment moved by the hon. member for Townsville in the extravagance of the Government with respect to this department; but hon. members them­selves were really responsible for a good deal of that extravagance. Had they not always advocated the erection of schools, the painting of schools, additions and repairs to schools; more money for hospitals; greater facilities for taking in-patients at the Dalby Sanatorium; better accommoda­tion at Dunwich? And when the House met this year, did not the deputy leader of the Opposition complain that the Government were not spending enough on the Goodna Lunatic Asylum?

HoNOURABLE MEMBERS : Let us take a vote.

Mr. MURPHY: When he said a vote was not going through, it would not go through. (Laughter.) ·

An OPPOSITION MEMBER interjected.

Mr. MURPHY: Was the hon. member so mean as to suppose that the Government, with ~ majority of ten, wer·e af~r his vote·? He sup.posed the hon. member would ap­plaud him' if he happened to be supporting the deputy leader of the Opposition. (Govern­ment laughter, and "Hear, hears!") Nobody put him up to speak. When he got up to speak, he put himself up; and nobody could make him sit down. (Laughter.)

The PREMIER: Don't worry about anyone.

Mr. MURPHY: He was not worrying at all about anyone. The vote was not going through to-night. The bell would ring directly ; and he would be ready to resume his remarks when they met again.

At 10.30 p.m.,

The C_HAIRMAN said: Under Standing Order No. 306, I must now leave the chair and make my report to the House.

The House resumed. The CHAIRMAN re­ported progress, and the Committee ob­tained leave to si't again on Tuesday next.

SPECIAL ADJOURNMENT.

The PREMIER : I beg to move that the House, at its rising, do adjourn until Tues­day next.

Question put and passed.

ADJOURNMENT.

The PREMIER: I beg to move that the House do now adjourn. The business on Tuesday, after the initial stages of the Bills introduced to-day, will be the motions stand­ing in the name of the Minister for Rail­ways.

Question put and passed.

The House adjourned at thirty-one minutes pe,st 10 o'olook.

[Mr. Murphy.

Liquor Bill.