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mrx78uRegular

Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 11:57 am Post subject: Magna EFI conversion

Hi all, Now I know this has been covered a million times by too many people, on too many forums to count, so flame suit on. This one's something a *little* bit different for you all.

2.6 pajero EFI conversion

Ok, so here goes. I'm trying to enlist a little bit of help from alot of sources to complete my current project quickly and effectively. And in return i'm going to document everything I do on the way for future reference for twits such as myself. And hopefully you won't have to put up with a million more silly questions.

Basically, what I have is a 2.6 (astron) SWB pajero. As you may know, this is basically the same engine as you get to play with with a few little changes to suit the 4wd as I understand. One such being the carbie has been slightly modified on the pajero to allow for operation at more servere angles.

Now the problem I have is that my auto choke doesn't work amongst the lure of a bit more grunt and fuel economy, i've decided to fit the EFI system from a 2.6 magna. (Weber had too many drawbacks here) I have a 32/36 dgv if someone's interested by the way...

Now i've come to you guys because the conversion is a bit more common amongst performance enthusiasts and I need to compile enough information to actually finish the job. Bla bla bla and so on.

Also have a look at the following thread on outerlimits

http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/PHP_Modules/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=847059#847059

What i've managed to put together so far is as follows, plus some assumptions on my behalf. Please add anything or correct me if i'm wrong.

Magna EFI parts to source:

Manifold/Plenum/Fuel rail, Computer and intact wiring loom distributor (?) Ignition coil EGO sensor Air flow sensor Airbox Intake plumbing

http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/PHP_Modules/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=847059#847059

http://sigma-galant.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=1168&start=195&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=

http://sigma-galant.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=12612#12612

Other parts to source:

Electric low pressure lift pump High pressure EFI fuel pump Surge tank Fuel pressure regulator (?)

Modifications required:

Manifold/Plenum mod EGO sensor provision for exhaust.

Ok, so in theory if I can get the complete wiring loom, the install should be fairly simple. Basically a matter of installing the major components and fuel system, and plugging the wires from the loom into their respective sensors and such. (Of course in real life...) This is the information i'm after, specifics of what needs to be done.

Now in regards to my fuel system, I am currently using the mech fuel pump. So this will be removed and blanked off (where can I get the blanking plate?) I don't want to modify the fuel tank to take an internal pump, and the vehicle gets used for off roading, so fuel starvation coule be an issue. I have a nice surge tank left over from my previous project that I thought i'd use. Refer below.

So yeah, excuse the ranting above, but any help would be greatly appreciated. I've already spoken to cheater about doing the manifold mod, so that's sorted. Maybe if someone could give me a hand when the time comes that i'm bashing my head on the transfer case in frustration there could be a 32/36 dgv and a case of beer in it for them too

As I said guys, i'll be documenting the whole project to put up on the forum when i'm finished.

Last edited by mrx78u on Wed Jul 12, 2006 4:38 pm; edited 1 time in total

cheaterpartsMotormouth

Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 3:40 pm Post subject: Re: Magna EFI conversion

mrx78u wrote:

Now in regards to my fuel system, I am currently using the mech fuel pump. So this will be removed and blanked off (where can I get the blanking plate?) I don't want to modify the fuel tank to take an internal pump, and the vehicle gets used for off roading, so fuel starvation coule be an issue. I have a nice surge tank left over from my previous project that I thought i'd use. Refer below. .

the magna EFI manifold blocks off the mech fuel pump hole so no blanking plate is needed

cheater

mrx78uRegular

Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 3:47 pm Post subject:

Thumbs up to that . One less thing to worry about there.

mrx78uRegular


Thought of something on the way home.Will I need the computer from a manual transmission model?

MCB_JETEnthusiast


I'm pretty sure that the computers are the same for manual or auto. I'm doing a conversion at the moment and I've got the wiring loom out of an auto. You just don't use the auto part of the loom (there's a couple of plugs). If you have a look at this link, you can download part of the Magna workshop manual. It is done by Jamie and it has a wiring diagram in it. I downloaded it about 2 weeks ago so it's still there:

http://www.network54.com/Forum/133789/thread/1111838306/last-1144048227/Magna+TN+EFI+Workshop+Manual

mrx78uRegular


Top stuff. Looks like we're in the same boat then. How are you finding the conversion so far? Any major complications? I've been looking at sourcing my parts from a TR/TS magna, is this right? or should I be looking at something like a TN?

MCB_JET Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 10:53 pm Post subject:




http://sigma-galant.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=posting&mode=quote&p=12633











EnthusiastNo great problems yet but give it time! I've put all my fuel system in - low pressure pump, surge tank, and high pressure pump. Went in ok but a lot of fiddling around. Hope I did it right, we'll soon see. I had to rebuild a suitable motor because I had an Astron 1 and I had to bring it up to Astron 2 specs (flat top pistons). The motor's already in the car. Got my manifold back last weekend from Cheater. Just had to tap a larger hole and make an adaptor for the heater, also may have to do this for the brake booster vacuum line. I'm using a manifold off an early model Magna but you may be able to use the later one if you've got the room under the bonnet The later model Magna heads (gen 2) seem to be the best ones to go for, they have the best flow (bigger valves) and they have roller rockers. I'm using an M6 head. You can use M8 heads but you'll have to use the pistons designed for these heads (have cut outs in the top of the pistons for valve clearance?) The wiring seems to be pretty straight forward. You have to get the whole loom from the engine bay that runs to the computer plus the relay that sits next to it which powers up the fuel pumps. I had a look at it the other night, it's basically a plug in affair. The only hassle I think I'm going to have is how to power it up from the key switch which is a bit of a mystery at the moment (different colour coded wires). I may take the whole loom down to the auto electricians along with my wiring diagrams from the Magna and the Sigma and get him to work it out for me and I'll just wire it up to how it says to wire it up. Shouldn't cost too much. I hope this is a help to you. It's just time consuming but pretty simple otherwise.

MCB_JETEnthusiast


This may also be of some help if you haven't already been there:

http://users.chariot.net.au/~emengee/mitsubishiprojects/index3.htm

Cheers.

mrx78uRegular

Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 9:44 am Post subject:

I was planning to leave the head as is for the time being. I'm not totally sure but from memory the pajero got an astron II wide block??? The plan was to leave the engine itself alone until it needs some work, runs fine at the moment.

I don't have the tools, or the skill to be working on internals. Otherwise i'd probably replace the head and the pistons anyway.

Then I must of course ask the question. Will a TR/TS magna head fit straight up? With a change of pistons of course.

Last edited by mrx78u on Wed Jul 12, 2006 10:53 am; edited 2 times in total



mrx78u wrote:

Then I must of course ask the question. Will a TR/TS magna head fit straight up? With a change of pistons of course.

your TR head would bolt on and your pajero already uses flat top pistons so there are no pistons to change

how easy are 2.6 motors ?

http://users.chariot.net.au/~emengee/mitsubishiprojects/index3.htm







cheater

mrx78uRegular


So, the TR head would be the best option, is much different to the TN-TP head? I can get one of these reconditioned for fairly cheaply, or should I go for the TR head?

My phobia of playing with cylinder heads, stems from having recently parted with a turbo rx7 project that had been ongoing to about three years. (Yes I know it doesn't have a head) But rotors make me scared of stuffing things up... $7k engine tore itself apart at about 5000km's for no apparent reason...

Anyway, let me know what you think the best options are at this point. Guess, i'd better go and buy myself a torque wrench then...

MCB_JET, could you please send me some details on how you did your fuel system? (Wiring, pump/surge tank placement and fuel line detail) Do you think I should wire up both fuel pumps off the ECU fuel pump relay circuit?

I'm getting some measurements tonight to see if the TR manifold will fit under the bonnet.

Oh, and what size fuel lines and fittings should I use?

mrx78uRegular

Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 7:53 pm Post subject:

Will definately know tomorrow if the TR manifold will fit. And i'm going to keep the pajero head for now.

Stuck my head underneath tonight, and have discovered what looks to be a nice spot for the surge tank, where the rear floor area meets the cargo area there is a nice step which appears to be clear of the rear suspension, and is nice and close to the current fuel lines. The floor is double skinned in the area, so mounting neatly might be interesting. Any ideas anyone?

There's also a nice little plate about 40cm away, right next to the current fuel lines, which looks nicely suited to mount the EFI fiel pump. It's nice and low as well and protected by the chassis rail which should work nicely too! I'll put the EFI fuel filter in line between here and the surge tank as well.

How do I go about cutting / re-routing the metal fuel lines properly? Will the need to be removed, or can I just hack saw them where they are? And these should be suited for the higher fuel pressure wont they?, should only need to replace the rubber hoses.

The fuel return line seems to be slightly smaller in diamater than the supply line, is this correct? If so, what will need to be done about the fittings? I though i would probably just need to attach the high pressure hose with a hose clamp, and then route it to the surge tank. I guess I can get adaptors for line sizes as well.

Will post pics of what i'm talking about tomorrow.

MCB_JETEnthusiast


You are probably going to find that getting fuel up to your engine is going to cost quite a bit of money and is going to take a lot of your time. But it would pay to get this right first off by not rushing it. I think it would be a good idea to put everything externally (pumps, surge tank etc.) but they have to be well protected, especially if you're going 4 wheel driving. I didn't have a great deal of room underneath the Sigma but I found a nice spot to put the surge tank in the







Joined: Apr 10, 2006Posts: 271Location: Pakenham,Vic.

quarter panel. The pumps just fitted under the car without interfering with anything. It took quite a bit of time just figuring out where to put everything and hopefully I didn't stuff up. As far as the wiring goes, I haven't actually wired them up yet but I'll be wiring them together using some high amp flexible wire and I will be putting a fuse down by the relay. As far as heads go, it sounds like you don't have to change yours just yet. I'm not too sure about Magna models but M6 and M7 heads are the best flowing (they have got a number cast into them). I will let you know if there's anything else you need to know as I progress with my project. I'm going to be doing a fair bit of work over this weekend and hope to have it going in about 4 weeks.

Cheers.

mrx78uRegular


I can't see that there's a huge amount to be done fuel wise, as long as I don't have to re run larger fuel lines the whole way. I've got a fair amount of room to play with under the pajero, and wiring access is really easy.

But of course the million dollar question is, will I need to run new fuel lines? Does anyone know what size the magna fitment is? 5/16"?



mrx78u wrote:

But of course the million dollar question is, will I need to run new fuel lines? Does anyone know what size the magna fitment is? 5/16"?

that will do just nice

think about it how big are the jets in your carb if they will feed your engine 5/16 fuel hose will

if you were going turbo ( big injectors maybe a larger feed may be ness but not stock )

how easy is that

cheater

Author Messagemrx78uRegular

Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 11:41 am Post subject:

See attached image. This is just in front of the rear suspension, and should be fairly well protected from damage. Let me know what you think.

Assuming it's possible to cut and slightly bend the metal fuel lines, placing the surge tank and pump should be easy enough.







I'm told that i'll have to mount the low pressure pump lower than the fuel tank, is this right? Shouldn't be a major issue though.

As you can see I have got a virtually 90 degree surface to mount the tank too, and plenty of room to play with.

*mental note* do not try to run fuel from / to brake lines*

mrx78uRegular

Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 1:21 pm Post subject:

I haven't been out and looked yet, but from what I can tell so far, the fuel lines currently in place are 5/16" and the EFI pump will probably have a 3/8" line. So a call to pirtek later today will be in order to suss out some adaptors

bmxwrxEnthusiast


Why can't you just put the low pressure pump, surge and hhigh pressure pump in the engine bay where the fuel lines end up?

mrx78uRegular


Surge tank can't go in the engine bay legally (so i'm told). Isn't going to be much room left with the dual battery either. Although, how much easier would that be?







81GLKodos Equivelent

Posts: 1377Location: Mildura Sunraysia Vic


Theres a few reasons why the above isnt such a good idea:

First is that the high flow pump cant really self prime its self... so would have a some troubles getting the fuel up there in the first place (admitablly though it is possible)

and as said... the main point being it is illegal...

Nick._________________1981 Mitsubishi Sigma GL.... Kinda. 1976 GC Galant; well, the lower half! =P 1978 GD Sedan

MCB_JETEnthusiast


Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 4:22 pm Post subject:

81GL wrote:First is that the high flow pump cant really self prime its self... so would have a some troubles getting the fuel up there in the first place (admitablly though it is possible)

You had me a bit worried there Nick! I mounted my high flow pump (holley blue) at about the 3/4 level of the tank, not below the bottom level of the tank. I had to rush home today to wire it up and try it out! It had been annoying me for about a day thinking that it might not work. Anyway I chucked about 5 litres of fuel in it (from empty), hooked it up to a battery and it self primed after about 3 seconds. It started pissing fuel into the gerry can which made me very happy. BTW the Sigma that I wrecked recently had a holley pump in the engine bay so that must have worked too.

MCB_JETEnthusiast


I thought I'd post some pictures so you can get some idea of what I've done.

This is my surge tank which is mounted in the quarter panel where the jack used to sit:








These are the fuel supply hoses (1/2 inch) in and out and return hoses (5 16ths) in and out going in the inside of the quarter panel up to the surge tank:

This is the holley blue pump, it is mounted high up above the fuel tank which is recessed and covers the pump completely when it is in. It is bolted to the wheel well. It has got a 3/8th inlet hose from fuel tank and half inch outlet to surge tank:

This is a VL Commodore high pressure pump which is mounted high and just in front of the fuel tank. It has half inch inlet from surge tank and 3/8th outlet. I am using high pressure hose for this one:

As you can see, everything is a tight fit when the fuel tank is in. There is very little room to mount the surge tank on the outside. I hope this is a help to anyone that is thinking of doing this sort of project.




its cases like this that i dont mind being wrong

I guess i probably should have also mentioned that that will only apply to X amount of pumps... i guess most of the stuff these days has that in mind...

Nice setup there man! does look pretty neat

Just curious? the fuel pumps run all the time whilst the car is running yeah? (still learning about the whole EFI thing. hopefully my car is there soon... $$$)

Cheers


MCB_JETEnthusiast


Yeah I'm pretty stoked it works myself! I'm not too sure about how it's gonna be wired up yet but I suppose it will be running all the time whatever the stock Magna computer decides to do with it. I just connected the low pressure pump (holley) to see if it worked today but haven't got to the stage of wiring it up to the computer yet. I'm still learning about the EFI thing myself. $$$ - stop counting up the money after $700! It's






surprising how much all these bits and pieces cost and it's the unexpected costs like metres of fuel hose etc.



Posted: Sat Jul 15, 2006 2:33 pm Post subject:

hmm... okay? i spose they would be on all the time with just the regulator dectating the pressure in the fuel rails?

cant wait to have the money to go EFI (and time).

Tell me about the cost thing... its all the little stuff you forget...

Nick.

PS: nice work... looking forward to seeing it come together!_________________1981 Mitsubishi Sigma GL.... Kinda. 1976 GC Galant; well, the lower half! =P 1978 GD Sedan

woopsNewbie

Posts: 97Location: Northside Brisbane


Quote:Surge tank can't go in the engine bay legally (so i'm told). Isn't going to be much room left with the dual battery either. Although, how much easier would that be?

Ok i talked to someone who certifies modplates up here and he said there is no problem with having the surge tnak in the engine bay just as long it's out of harms way such as exhaust and stuff like that. And he also said it's not legal to have one in the boot due to the fact that you need to have a firewall between it and passengers.

Quote:Why can't you just put the low pressure pump, surge and hhigh pressure pump in the engine bay where the fuel lines end up?

And also it's better to have the low pressure pump near the tank to act as a push system rather than a pull system. Both work but a push system is better for a surge tank setup. Better for the low pressure pump.

mrx78uRegular








I've got my mechanic back in sydney sending me a bosch 910 high pressure pump and 5/16" fittings. Checked it past him, and he tells me that 5/16" is fine for NA efi cars. (This guy builds 7 sec rotaries so i trust his judgement). I'm going to keep all 5/16" lines, the metal fuel lines shold be ok, and i'll replace all rubber hoses with high pressure ones. The return lines do not need to be high pressure lines either, but i'll be checking over all hoses in the process, to make sure i'm not going to have any troubles.

Put down a deposit today at the wreckers for them to pull the whole efi system from a TR/TS magna. So will be picking that up this week. And waitig for my surge tank to arrive from sydney. The the manifold will be off to be modified... Yay

The it's off to pickup a couple of metres of high pressure fuel line at around $17.50 a metre, happy price.

The off to repco to pickup a facet low pressure, high volume fuel pump to feed the surge tank. And a couple of fuel filters while i'm there, and EFI and a low pressure filter. Will pickup some hose clamps (not stainless) as well.

I'll probably need a pipe cutter, for the metal fuel lines. I'll be cutting the metal lines out from where the surge tank is, back to where the rubber lines from the fuel tank join them, and replace all of this with new low pressure lines, when the L/P pump goes in. If i have too much trouble with the metal fuel lines, I only need to make a single run of EFI rated fuel line to the engine bay. As I said before, the return line should be ok.

Hmmm... that's all I can think of for now. Looking forward to getting my hands dirty and away from the keyboard for now.

As promised i'll be documenting every step of the process too! Will be posting it up on here, outerlimits4x4 and pajeroclub's forum for others reference.

Please feel free to correct me if you think i've come up with any stupid ideas here.

Oh yeah, one other thing... I'll be buying myself a fire extinguisher

Cheers Guys, Mick.

mrx78uRegular


I've also decided to mount the high pressure pump, up next to the surge tank, to keep things tidy. The fuel flow to the surge tank from the low pressure pump, should be enough to prime the high pressure pump and keep it primed and running nicely, even when on the rough stuff.

I bought myself a set of halogen worklamps today, so I can get work done after hours. And I might even get into it tomorrow and take some measurements and things. I'll get some wiring in for the fuel pumps as well, the more I get done now... well you get the point.

bmxwrxEnthusiast

Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 2:34 pm Post subject:

How much were you quoted for the TR magna injection and head from the wreckers?





MCB_JETEnthusiast



Nick (81GL), the answer to your question about all those little bits that seem to cost you money, I used a little bit more fuel hose than I first expected, something like 2 1/2 metres of 1/2 inch, 1.2 metres of 3/8th, 2 1/2 metres of 5/16ths and 1 metre of 3/8th EFI hose, then there's all the stainless steel clamps, brass fittings, a bit of protection rubber for the hoses where they go into the quarter panel, wire, fuse, fuel filter, connectors and then there was that blue clamp that held the VL pump in place. (Expensive!) Then after doing all that, I went down to Repco yesterday and spent another $42 on hose and clamps to plumb the engine bay up. (Fuel hose, water hose, vacuum hose.)

I've been having a bit of a play around in the engine bay today and I've discovered that my bonnet is gonna hit the throttle body so I'm gonna have to cut a hole in the bonnet so I can clear the T/B. I was thinking about putting a turbo cordia scoop on the bonnet to cover the hole up. Should look quite good. (more $!) There's also the problem of that great big air box which is a real pain in the ass! I've decided that the easiest solution to that thing is to mount it where the battery is and put the battery in the boot. More money!

Bmxwrx, you asked about some prices. I bought everything separately, mainly because I wanted to buy the best head and manifold combination.

$125 for an M6 head in good condition $5 for a Scorpion rocker cover $50 for the inlet manifold including injectors, fuel rail etc. $30 for the throttle body air box and rubber pipe $50 for the ECU wiring loom and relay and everything else that was attached to it except the coil $40 for the distributor and coil.

Hope that can be of help to you.

MCB Author Message

mrx78uRegular

Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 9:32 am Post subject:

I've been quoted $300 for the whole EFi setup from the magna. That includes, manifold, throttle body, ecu, wiring loom, sensors, airbox, coil, distributor, etc.

$190 for a bosch 910 external high presure fuel pump with fittings and bracket.

$17.50/m for 5/16" high pressure fuel line $7.50/m for 5/16" low pressure fuel line $0 for surge tank (i've already got one) I already have heaps of auto electrical bits for wiring Not too sure about hose clamps / fasteners, or fuel filters (not much)

I got lucky in that I have lots of room to play with in the engine bay, and underneath. I'll still be building some shielding for the fuel pumps and surge tank though.





bmxwrxEnthusiast

Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 10:23 am Post subject:

So 300 bux for everything minus the head?

Does all the later gear bolt onto your current head?

mrx78uRegular

Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 4:41 pm Post subject:

As far as I know, yes. everything fits. However the manifold needs to be modified. (Talk to cheaterparts for details). Basically the throttle body needs to be cut and re-welded to the other end of the plenum.

Picked up my low pressure fuel pump and EFI fuel hose today... and a creeper

Waiting for surge tank to arrive from sydney. Will probably start on the fuel system this weekend.

bmxwrxEnthusiast


Good stuff, i picked up my injection gear today.

Everything from head to ecu to get it running on an Astron 1 for 400bux, tho i had to remove it myself.

MCB_JETEnthusiast



Bmxwrx, if you didn't already know, I thought I'd let you know that you're going to have to use flat top pistons on an Astron 1. Astron 1's have got dished pistons std. Good luck!

MCB

bmxwrxEnthusiast

Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 6:53 am Post subject:

Thanks for the info MCB, i was just going to run it with the low comp pistons for now, until i get around to rebuilding the bottom end.

mrx78uRegular


Picked up a nice shiny new VL turbo fuel pump today, at happy price...













mrx78uRegular

Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 7:33 am Post subject:

Alright, finally got my hands dirty last night

Damn, that minuki carb and it's emissions gear are complicated little pricks. I think i've got a whole box of vacum hoses and stuff. There's a few parts in there I don't even know wht they are, hopefully I won't need these with the EFI unit.

A couple of questions though, firstly I was thinking of keeping the charcoal canister in place for legal reasons. Can the carb charcoal canister be plumbed back into the EFI system? or will I need to get one of those of a magna too.

Second, the engine had been consuming a *tiny* bit of coolant, and there's a nice oil patch down the engine on the inlet manifold side. Looking at the oil stains, the oil has to be leaking out of either the fuel pump or the cylinder head. I gues because I have all the crap off the engine now, it would be a good tim to pull the head and replace the head gasket. I was also thinking about either having the head serviced, or getting a recoed TR/TS magna head and installing that. Cheater tells me that my engine is likely to already have flat top pistons, so the magna head should fit fine. And will this increase the compression ratio?

Oh, and would anyone like a box of good pajero carb and ignition parts?

mrx78uRegular


Anyone know how to check for cracks in the block. Bearing in mind the while side of the engine is coated in oil from the cylinder head down, so I can't see them that way. If i clean this off is there some way to find a small fracture?

MCB_JETEnthusiast



How are you going mrx? Firstly, the charcoal canister should be able to be plumbed into the EFI system easily. I can't see a reason why you should have to change your original one.

The oil leaking is most likely coming from your fuel pump. There is a small hole in the bottom of the pump which usually leaks oil when it's stuffed. You won't be needing this anyway.

If I was in your position, I would be leaving the original head on providing there were no problems. At least you'd know this engine is a good runner. It is one less thing to worry about and if you have any problems with your EFI system, at least you know the engine is not the problem and it must be in your EFI system.

As far as the water leaks go, clean your engine up, go for a good long drive until the radiator is pressurised and have a good look around the likely spots it could be leaking.







And don't forget your heater core. The blocks usually crack between the two large welsh plugs. There are usually a lot of water stains around the area where you are getting water leaks.

Cheers, MCB




Bmxwrx... you will probably be finding that if you leave your astron 1 pistons in there (aka: dished) then your comp. will be around the 7.5:1 mark maybe lower... this really isnt a friendly figure for a N/A engine... and i would be doubting the engine running in the first place... sorry dude.

It is possible though just to shave the head? (think cheater mentioned about 3mm ? might double check that) but that also means your head will not be able to have many shave's after that...

mrx78u, as for your cooling system ? this was an excent diagnosis method for me... (all be it a sad one... ) With a cold engine... remove the radiator cap and then turn the car on, do note that if you give it a boot you might get some water splash out... then have a look down the hole... if you see bubbles... then you have a leak at some point where the compression is going back through the cooling system... headgasket/ maybe head. (unlikely block, but possible)... if no bubbles thats a good... you'll have a leak else where, look over all water hoses, not forgetting a good look at the bottom radiator hose, these are often over looked. just look for water basically

oh, and check the oil in the sump... if it looks a little white, then thats where your water is going

Cheers,

Nick.

PS: good luck guys!_________________1981 Mitsubishi Sigma GL.... Kinda. 1976 GC Galant; well, the lower half! =P 1978 GD Sedan

MCB_JETEnthusiast

Joined: Apr 10, 2006Posts: 271Location:


Does anyone know how to wire an EFI Magna loom to a Sigma? Any information would be appreciated as I haven't got much of a clue about this.





Pakenham,Vic.

mrx78uRegular


MCB i'll let you know as I get this done. Manifold is off at cheaters for now, and i've got some time to kill. Shouldn't be too hard as long as you have the whole loom, ECU, sensors, dizzy and relay control module. I don't have the relay control module, back to the wreckers for me on monday.

had a good chat to cheater today, he reckons that i'll have no problem fitting the magna head. Don't know if I wanna spend the money on a recondidtioned one at the moment $450 ish. I think that it's probably worth pulling the head and changing the head gasket while i've got the engine stripped down this far anyway.

An regards to the mess down the side of the engine, it could well be the fuel pump, but yeh, that's gone now. I won't be driving anywhere now. I don't think I could put this mess back together if I tried. EFI is going ahead!

Had some trouble finding a way to fit the TR manifold in the engine bay, plenty of bonnet clearance, but it's too long. Once the thermostat housing has been removed and the fuel rail cut down a little bit it shouldn't be a problem anymore. I've got to cut the battery tray out (yay get to use my new angle grinder). I'll head over to opposite lock through the week and pick up a dual battery tray to mount where the prefilter was on the other side of the engine bay.

I'll need to rewire the engine bay now I guess. Run new cable fasteners and keep everything tidy. Will need to find a fuse box for my accessory wires anyway. Keep everything nice and tidy.

This is going to be a big job...

MCB_JETEnthusiast



Nearly there I hope!

I will be putting the battery in the boot next weekend. I've decided that the air filter box would go where the battery used to be. Apart from being a neat installation, it is a lot easier to relocate the battery than duct the air box to the other side of the engine bay. Apart from that, I've just got to get a longer throttle cable and set up the crank case ventilation system and then there's the wiring!

The wiring - I had a go at it this weekend. I think I connected something up wrong and possibly fizzed the coil or the computer or maybe both! Anyway, another $60 down the drain. What's money when you're having fun! I think I'll leave this 'till last and if anyone's got any information on how to wire up these things, please let me know. Pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeese! I'm no electrician!

Cheers, MCB!





super_sik_sigmaMotormouth

Joined: Mar 10, 2006Posts: 934Location: Adelaide SA


from that pic to looks like a pice of cake , but hey by the sounds of it its a bitch

well thats what petrol prices do, if petrol was cheap i would just set some type of quwad webers hahaha 1km per litre _________________Bryan S

85 GN SIGMA 5speed (0-100kms/h 11sec) http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2187357/1 84 GK SIGMA 3speed t-bar (parts car) http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2401578/1

Author MessageMCB_JETEnthusiast



Quad throttle bodies and large injectors would be better with 4 fuel pumps, one for each injector! Just pump it in!




mate if petrol was free i would have it set up so i have a 100L tank and have a fire hose leading to the engine, have a pump for each cylender and let a few leters go down the exhaust to make sure you get some nice flames

then i would produce some sort of V 32 ASTRON, weld a few astronIIs together and make them super in-efficiant _________________Bryan S


TurboGJ260Regular

Joined: May 25, 2006Posts: 123


well if i can help anyone here in adelaide do this conversion let me know (at a small fee for the forum users ) because ive done it to the gj with the tp magna setup. its a bit of a bitch to wire up u need the wireing diagrams from the siggy and the magna. its basically 1 at a time from the computer plug back to the intended plug,sensor,etc to do the job properly. Yeah so any electrical work pm me and i can c what i can organise to help_________________Never underestimate the predictabaility of stupidity

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2401578/1












Location: Adelaide




humm someone that will take care of the whole electics for a EFI conversion, that makes it alot easier

lets hope MCB_JET does a big write up for us _________________Bryan S





TurboGJ260 wrote:well if i can help anyone here in adelaide do this conversion let me know (at a small fee for the forum users ) because ive done it to the gj with the tp magna setup. its a bit of a bitch to wire up u need the wireing diagrams from the siggy and the magna. its basically 1 at a time from the computer plug back to the intended plug,sensor,etc to do the job properly. Yeah so any electrical work pm me and i can c what i can organise to help

Maybe you should place your self in the forsale section?

Nice job though mate! cant wait till i have the funds to go EFI...


MCB_JETEnthusiast



Hey guys. Just thought I'd let any interested reader know what I've been up to this weekend. I got the battery in the boot, this was a very easy job. A lot easier than ducting the air box over to the other side of the car! I thought I'd let you know the costs if anyone is interested in doing it.

The battery box was $20 at Autobarn, the cabling black and red was $7 something per metre from Repco (screwed them down from $13 per metre ), you need just over 5









metres of each (better to buy 6 metres of each). You also need a power wire from your battery to the main power where the fusable link used to be (put the fusable link in the boot as well). You also need some heavy duty crimp on connectors which are $6 each. This is about it as far as materials go. It is a very easy job and should take about 3-4 hours labour.

I used a throttle cable off a Magna with cruise control. It was very long and I cut the pedal end off the cable (ball), pulled the cable out, shortened both ends of the outer casing and put the plastic screw up bit that screws onto the firewall on the Sigma on the end of the Magna outer casing and fitted it all to the car and then put a crimp up connector on the pedal end of the cable (perfect!)

I will be doing the wiring loom next weekend and if I get that done it should be a goer!

Cheers, MCB

MCB_JETEnthusiast



Wiring up the Magna loom might be easy for some people but didn't make any sense to me! Good luck wiring your projects up because I won't be trying to wire up the Magna loom any more. I've now put a hammer through the ECU and the whole lot, wires and everything else associated with the original Magna setup has gone into the rubbish bin! I"ve got a brand new Wolf 3D ECU sitting in front of me and it looks like child's play compared to the Magna crap! I never ever want to see a Magna wiring loom again with a shit load of plugs that don't go anywhere! F*ng wires everywhere that don't make any sense, don't match up to anything and wire diagrams that don't make any sense! Good luck! Wolf rules supreme!

MCB_JETEnthusiast



Repeated again, sorry!

Last edited by MCB_JET on Mon Jul 31, 2006 9:40 pm; edited 1 time in total

TurboGJ260Regular

Joined: May 25, 2006Posts: 123Location: Adelaide


lol Good one 81GL but no one would b able to afford the price! hey if a auto elect can help ppl get the old school siggys on the road with efi i guess its a good thing yeah? im geting sick of seeing hundai excel's with big wheels and exhausts hooning around the placebut thats another story... efi setup is eazy once u know how, the only thing i had to do was cut a small section of the under bonnet webbing so all the tps sensor plugs on top of the throttle body fit, nothing major didnt affect the look outside. Yeah Efi is deffently worth it but try to find a complete magna wreck it makes the job a lot cheeper if u can find the car for the right price and u can take ur time providing u have the space... the efi runs like shit so far because the engine decompressed waiting the turbo _________________Never underestimate the predictabaility of stupidity







MCB_JETEnthusiast



I'm not having a good night! Sorry about the repeat posts!!

Last edited by MCB_JET on Mon Jul 31, 2006 9:31 pm; edited 1 time in total

scorp16Kodos Equivelent

Joined: Mar 10, 2006Posts: 1017Location: Melbourne


just do the loom properly as i bought a 2nd hand comp and loom and the loom is the cause of all my dramas in the car as all the wires enter the loom and some go nowhere and change colours up to 3 times, then some other wires are just twisted together F@#ken idiot. than the manifold had to be rewelded because the silly F@#k put the map sensor above the no4 intake runner. the car had all sorts of voltage drops but with the stock t/b, injectors i'm in the 100kw atw club

MCB_JETEnthusiast


Scorp, what ECU are you running?



microtech digi (16 years old ) but shes doing the job even without the tunability of the newer computers


Joined: Mar 10, 2006Posts: 934


at times like these you need carbies

hey they may be waste-full and make the car run sh1t but its oh so simple , if i convince myself EFI is too hard ill love my slow inificiant carbie

dont worry MCB_JET just picture the first drive, you can start the car without pumping the gas, you will notice resoponce and power, oh and that thing called economy _________________Bryan S











Location: Adelaide SA 85 GN SIGMA 5speed (0-100kms/h 11sec)

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2187357/1 84 GK SIGMA 3speed t-bar (parts car) http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2401578/1

MCB_JETEnthusiast


It's gotta be 100% better than the Magna one! I hate those things!

Author MessageMCB_JETEnthusiast



Bryan, yeah the air fuel ratio facility is gonna come in really handy on the Wolf. I'll be able to make every last bit of fuel go a long way with a bit of fine tuning! And if I'm gonna be using a lot of fuel, at least I'll have the power to match it!




true that _________________Bryan S


TurboGJ260Regular

Posted: Tue Aug 01, 2006 8:51 pm Post subject:

gregorys book give a detailed wireing diagram for the tp magna setup. Its a piece of cake u judt do one wire at a time, i used the hole in the firewall where the grommet is for the a/c (long gone now) and mounted the ecu against the firewall. Makes it a lot simpler if u got the siggy diagram as well..._________________Never underestimate the predictabaility of stupidity

bmxwrxEnthusiast

Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 5:31 am Post subject:















Hey scorp, what is you recipe for 100kw atw? Is that still n/a?



bmxwrx wrote:Hey scorp, what is you recipe for 100kw atw? Is that still n/a?

sorry for butting in

but my recipe is for 100 Kw N/A atw

ported magna head large cam over 300 deg with 107.5 lob sep double valve springs twin 45 mm webers with 41 mm chokes custom extractor and exhaust removed balance shafts light flywheel

there should be more power atw with the rebuild ( hoping for over 110 ) its has more comp 11:1 the 50 mm quad T/Bs are going on lighter flywheel a new oil scraper and the spark will be though the computor so the advance should be tuned better to the engine

hope that helps cheater

mrx78uRegular


On the subject of ECUs, I used to run a Microtech MT-8 in my old rx7. Piece of cake to wire up and program, and I had considered one for the pajero, however, they're illegal. Alot of computers will never meet EPA standards, due to the way they are designed. And, yeah i've been through this trying to get the rx7 engineered. I also believe that having real time control of your fuel/ignition tuning is illegal as well.

But yes, they're easy to wire up, they aren't as likely to stuff up on you, and they'll tell you all the information you could ever want to know.

P.S. I haven't ruled out going for an aftermarket ECU just yet. But i'm going to try with the magna ECU first.

Cheers, Mick.



hey cheater what does the ingreadients of that recipie cost in total? and what amounts of








fuel does it guzzel 100RWKWs sound nice _________________Bryan S



Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 3:34 pm Post subject:

super_sik_sigma wrote:hey cheater what does the ingreadients of that recipie cost in total? and what amounts of fuel does it guzzel 100RWKWs sound nice

cost

magna head cheap - porting I did most of the work myself but a guess about $ 400 to $ 500 for the port work valve springs I think were about $ 90 from Crow a pair of DCOE 13 webers on manifold some where between $ 800 and $ 1000 41 mm chokes ( have to be made ) $ 120 for the set billet cam were about $220 headers hand made mandel tig welded ? about $ 800 2 1/2 " mandel system ? not sure how much oil scaper I've not priced them as yet about $ 80

of cause there there is the bottem end to think of rods are polished- peaned and have ARP rod bolts crank has bean cleaned up ( all the rough forge marks buffed off ) and is index ground the assembly is balanced cost for the bottem end about $ 1500 there is a billet 4140 flywheel werth ? $ 650

I do my own assembly work so there is about $ 5000 in parts and other labour + assembly

adds up quick doesn't it there is also a custom button clutch and tuning

as for the fuel who cares it does burn a bit though

cheater



i think ill keep the sigma nice and stock , at this point in time thats just too much money

i wana spend about 1K on my engine to get it faster, EFI is probly my best bet








_________________Bryan S


MCB_JETEnthusiast



As far as legality goes, I'm not too worried about my ECU being illegal. I think modifying your Plenum is illegal too and a lot of other modifications would be too! I think the worst that can happen is you'll get your car defected and maybe a fine which doesn't worry me too much. There are plenty of cheap Siggies around just dying to be modified. I"m keeping my car registered while I do all the modifications so I don't have to get another roadworthy! Also I've found wiring up my Wolf ECU is very easy! There are lots of wires but I know where they're all supposed to go. It's a pleasure to work on something which is that easy (no frustrations!)

tandanusMotormouth

Joined: Mar 10, 2006Posts: 522Location: NSW Central Coast


Ive said it before and I'll say it again: I learn SO much off Cheater's posts. T.




i run a custom crow cam, double valve springs, magna injection, microtech computer, astron 2 head ported, 2.5 inch exhaust, extractors, removed balence shafts, and my tuner is a camp.

cheaterparts Posted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 7:48 am Post subject:











Motormouthscorp16 wrote:i run a custom crow cam,

what grind did you get out of crow ? the last time I rang them they only did a small cams for N/A even there speedway grinds were quite tame

cheater


Posted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 9:56 pm Post subject:

i have to find my bit of paper, i can't rember. but call marty at crow. Can't complain about it though, the cam was free, and the springs were $50

SigmaprojectMotormouth

Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 12:56 pm Post subject:

Once again we can see that HP cost's money.

The TR Magna with its EFI and bigger T/B and roller head still only put out 100k/w at the flywheel

The Sigma Turbo (when new) put out 116k/w at the flywheel

Reduce these figures by around 30% to get the k/w at the wheels.Author Message


Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 2:37 pm Post subject:

Sigmaproject wrote:Once again we can see that HP cost's money.

The TR Magna with its EFI and bigger T/B and roller head still only put out 100k/w at the flywheel

The Sigma Turbo (when new) put out 116k/w at the flywheel

Reduce these figures by around 30% to get the k/w at the wheels.

getting an astron to 90Kw atw N/A is fairly easy ( with a cam - astron 2 head and some induction mods ether side drafts or modified magna EFI ) getting 100 Kw atw N/A takes a bit more thought and money still an astron is fairly cheap for parts to pick up some good gains in power and the basic engine is strong enough to take some mods I wont 110+ Kw atw from the new build and being a track car it doesn't have to have good manners or fuel consumption figures







we have done some sums on the cost of doing my 202 for the torana LJ historic touring car ( the aim is 210 Kw at the crank ) running 45 mm webers and N/A of cause the under bonnet cost some where between 10 and 15 K doing most work ourselfs parts add up quick and you are right Hp costs, Its just a fact of life

cheater

L200uteNewbie

Joined: Aug 07, 2006Posts: 33

Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 7:25 pm Post subject:

i am interested in doing this conversion for my ute..

if you use the head from a magna and on a sigma block.. what modifications have to be done to the head?

also.. what happens with the water pump? doesnt the magna have a remote water pump or somethin like that?

will the magna manifold fit a sigma head?

thanks guys i am only new here but any info you can give me would be great



Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 10:36 pm Post subject:

Welcome to the site mate...

ill flow out what i know...

The magna head will bolt straight up to the sigma block... the only thing is that the Astron 1 uses dished pistons where as the astron 2 uses flat tops... so you will need to do somthing to up the compression... unless you plan to be running some boost...

water pump? as far as i know you can using a timing cover off another astron 1 2.6 or astron 2 that was fitten in a GN sigma.

As you might be able to guess.. the astron 2 was released in the sigmas at the very end of their run = GN ... so yes it will bolt on if you have the astron 2... other wise head swapping... not sure about redrill manifold???

Good luck.






L200uteNewbie



81GL wrote:Welcome to the site mate...

ill flow out what i know...

The magna head will bolt straight up to the sigma block... the only thing is that the Astron 1 uses dished pistons where as the astron 2 uses flat tops... so you will need to do somthing to up the compression... unless you plan to be running some boost...

water pump? as far as i know you can using a timing cover off another astron 1 2.6 or astron 2 that was fitten in a GN sigma.

As you might be able to guess.. the astron 2 was released in the sigmas at the very end of their run = GN ... so yes it will bolt on if you have the astron 2... other wise head swapping... not sure about redrill manifold???

Good luck.

Nick.

thanks buddy..

will look into it


Posts: 842Location: East Maitland


Dont the l200's have the Saturn motor?


Joined: Mar 10, 2006Posts: 1017

Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 7:49 pm Post subject:

should be a 4g63







Location: Melbourne

L200uteNewbie



ita got a 1.6 OR 1.8 in it...

not sure which it is.. its out of a galant

are there any oil/water galleries on the magna head that have to be filled so it can fit on the siggy block


Posts: 842Location: East Maitland


Only problem is that Astron 1 inlet manifolds need to be modified to suit the Astron II stud pattern.

mrx78uRegular

Posted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 7:39 pm Post subject:

Finally got back under the jabber today, and got some of the fuel system installed. Low pressure fuel pump is installed, fuel filter is in and I replaced the fuel lines at the back end. Front fuel filter is in as well. In the end I decided to use the standard metal fuel lines (can't remember what they're called) for the run from the high presure fuel pump, to the engine bay. I've cut them at the point just forward of where the surge tank and high pressure pump are going, and i've fitted copper ferrules using loctite.

I just need to pick up some bolts to mount the high pressure pump, and some grommets for the fuel pump wires to run back into the cabin. Both pumps will be fused at the point where they enter the cabin as well, just for some extra safety.

Pics coming soon. I'll still do a full writeup when i'm done too!

Cheers Lads! Mick.

ralliart_sigmaNewbie

Joined: Mar 13, 2006Posts: 46Location: Launceston, Tas

Posted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 9:19 pm Post subject:

I picked up a complete TP magna motor, computer, loom, manifolds, new 02 sensor and a complete rebuilt gasket set a few weeks back for $200. Ive got it stripped down at the moment trying to decide which way to go with the motor: a starting point for my turbo motor for my GH once i find and buy a turbo manifold or it will become a warm N/A efi motor for a L200 or a triton im looking at buying. 2 questions: Are the number of bolts between an astron1 and astron2 sump different or are the astron









sumps completely different between FWD and RWD? and has anyone got photo's or sugestions for the neatest and easiest way to relocate the thermostat housing and blocking off the magna one? Cheers Trent

bmxwrxEnthusiast

Joined: Jun 07, 2006Posts: 260

Posted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 7:43 am Post subject:

Nice buy.

You could just run a hose from the magna thermostat to the radiator. Thats what i done in favour of chopping and relocating it because i could see it was going to look fucking ugly.

mrx78uRegular

Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 9:42 am Post subject:

I was finally able to sit down with the magna wiring loom last night, and start breaking it down into component form.

It's not quite as hard as it looks. I'm already doing up some information on that for everyone else who's having trouble with it. It looks much more difficult than it really is.

Now I was hoping that someone would be able to give me a diagram of the sigma's charcoal canister circuit. Hoses and things such as the purge valve. I'd like to leave this in place for legality reasons, so i'm trying to work out how to run this with the new EFI gear. That and I don't know what else to do with the breather hose that runs back to the fuel tank.

Cheers!

mrx78uRegular


Oooh oooh just though of something... I don't have room for the TR/TS magna airbox (it's huge)... any ideas? Obviously I still need the AFM, but what are the options? TN/TP airbox? Will the airflow meter be compatible?

And there's no way I can use a pod filter in place of the airbox, it is a 4wd after all, and it's being built for off road.

fully_sikmaEnthusiast

Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 1:28 pm Post subject:

i have seen vr4s and 90s lancers had a pod shaped airbox...

maybe you could use one of them???









Joined: May 04, 2006Posts: 277Location: Adelaide, SA

mrx78uRegular


High pressure fuel pump is in. Gotta pick up some fuses for the fuel pumps, then i'll join them into the same circuit before running back to the control relay!!!

Ripped out crap loads of wiring from the engine bay too! Lot's of gear for the battery, considering i'm reloacting it. No room where it used to be!

Problems with relocating the battery of course... where does it go? Now alot of you 'sedan' types relocate the battery to the boot space... great idea. Although with a SWB pajero, there's the problem of using some of the already scarce cargo area space. There's plenty of room there, but it would be inpractical.

Other side of the engine bay??? Fuse box and window washer will have to move, don't really wanna do it. But it should be a piece of cake. Will make all my accessory wiring a bit tidier too.

I used the opportunity to remove all of the old accessory wires, thermo fan wiring, CB antenna wires and some other crap that is just making a mess in the engine bay for now.

Are there any legal issues with having the battery at the front of the engine bay? I wouldn't think so, i've seen some new cars setup like that. It will get nice and submerged though, is the only problem I can see.

It's all looking good for now anyway, can't forsee any real issues for now, everything is going together alot easier than I expected.

I want my surge tank so I can finish the fuel system!!!Author Message

mrx78uRegular

Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 9:36 am Post subject:

Woohoo... Pirahna make a dual battery tray designed to located the battery in a nice little space in the front right corner of the engine bay, it's a wee bit expensive, but a good option. Will keep everything out of the way.

I was also toying around with the magna airbox and MAF sensor on the weekend. I can't think of any way to neatly mount the magna airbox, so i've decided to build my own. The plan was to use a k&n pod filter in a custom airbox, and then use the standard prefilter to keep everything a bit cleaner. However I have read that using a standard pos filter on the mitsubishi MAF sensor can cause some major problems for the computer due the the air swirling effect over the sensor... Anyway, K&N make a pod filter specifically for the mitsi MAF sensor, it includes mounting hardware as well. So that will be a good option. I will still use an airbox and the stock paj prefilter. I can fit a snorkel later if need be too!

Otherwise, more wiring is coming out. I've been tidying up the the standard wiring loom a bit as well.





MCB_JETEnthusiast


Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 8:29 pm Post subject:

I relocated my battery into the boot so I could accommodate that huge airbox where the battery used to be. The only problem is that there is a big voltage drop when you turn the motor over (down to about 9 volts) which will cause problems for your ECU. I used very thick wire (10mm), earthed from the battery to the engine block and from the engine block to the body but this wasn't good enough. Since I'm now using a Wolf ECU, I don't need that bloody big airbox any more and I'm now running a pod filter. I've also refitted the battery back up to the front so I can get more voltage to the ECU (now 10.5 volts when cranking). It's been a very joyous day today! I've managed to get the spark plugs sparking, the injectors ticking over by spinning the distributor by hand. The Wolf diagnostic panel lights up like a Christmas tree so it looks like I'm not too far off having it going again! Fantastic!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

All I've got to do now (I hope) is buy and fit an O2 censor and wire it up the tacho.

mrx78uRegular

Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 9:16 am Post subject:

Airbox problem solved. At least for the time being. RPW sell a K&N pod filter specifically designed for the misti airflow sensor. It comes with the adaptor too! They sell it for about $170ish. (Priced it through repco $600) I'll build my own airbox to fit in the space I have, and then I can plumb a prefilter or a snorkel into that to stop some of the larger crap getting in! All of the off-shelf snorkels for the early pajero fit to the right side as well.

Only problem is that now the battery, airbox and fuse box are going to be on the left side (inlet side) of the engine bay. I'm thinking of how I can route the airbox onto the other side of the engine bay without picking up too much heat. The fuse box will be located there as well. (There's plenty of room). Why do I want to do this? Well the idea is that I have to do as little work to the wiring loom as possible. And I'd basically be replacing the factory fusable links with the magna fuse box. And unless i'm being very niave, everything 'should' just plug into the correct places. I'll modify the loom if I have to, but if it's left as it should be, then i've already eliminated alot of possible problems. And without pulling the loom apart I have no idea how to get power to the ECU, fuel pumps, etc... Oh how easy would a microtech or your wolf3d be. But then that's another $1200+ on the upgrade.

But I guess I won't know until I start putting everything together and see what happens.

Also thinking I should have used TN/TP gear instead of TR/TS now. Life would have been much easier.

The paj already has an M6 cylinder head, which matches the TN/TP manifold fine, however the TR/TS manifold is slightly different in that one of the water channels is much larger then the channel on the M6 head. Also the manifold is huge. Although, it should be a good thing once it's all together. I was planning on fitting a TR/TS cylinder head later on anyway. Alot of guys don't seem to have a problem fitting the early manifold to the later head though... we'll see what happens. Later manifold looks much better though... not that that's important. Was thinking of installing a stage 1 cam when I upgrade the head too, that should be a bit of fun.

Last edited by mrx78u on Thu Sep 07, 2006 9:33 am; edited 1 time in total

mrx78uRegular


MCB_JET wrote:







I relocated my battery into the boot so I could accommodate that huge airbox where the battery used to be. The only problem is that there is a big voltage drop when you turn the motor over (down to about 9 volts) which will cause problems for your ECU. I used very thick wire (10mm), earthed from the battery to the engine block and from the engine block to the body but this wasn't good enough. Since I'm now using a Wolf ECU, I don't need that bloody big airbox any more and I'm now running a pod filter. I've also refitted the battery back up to the front so I can get more voltage to the ECU (now 10.5 volts when cranking). It's been a very joyous day today! I've managed to get the spark plugs sparking, the injectors ticking over by spinning the distributor by hand. The Wolf diagnostic panel lights up like a Christmas tree so it looks like I'm not too far off having it going again! Fantastic!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! All I've got to do now (I hope) is buy and fit an O2 censor and wire it up the tacho.

Oh there's a thought. Your wolf3d should run without an oxygen sensor, at least my mircotech did. Only used it for tuning. As long as you get your initial settings right, it should all run ok. Obviously you're not going to get an AF ratio reading.

O2 censor = someone who is offended by oxygen, so tries to cover up it's existence to other people.

Last edited by mrx78u on Thu Sep 07, 2006 11:42 am; edited 1 time in total

mrx78uRegular


Oh something else, I hadn't thought about the tacho. How are you wiring the old tacho to the ECU will that work as it should? I wonder how i'll have to do that

I don't know if the paj tacho will be compatible with the ECU's signal, and I don't know where I can intercept the old tacho wiring... Hmmm something else to ponder.

Woooo!!!! A good opportunity to get a 50 inch carbon fibre/chrome godzilla tacho with built in subwoffer and 1,000,000w HID shift light. You know when you need to change gears because you start to melt!

SEWagonEnthusiast

Joined: Sep 01, 2006Posts: 295Location: Adelaide

Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 12:07 pm Post subject:

I have read the whole thread, but not recently, so forgive me if you've covered this - are you using a coil and distributor still, or going distributorless? If you've still got the stock coil (regardless of distributor) then your tacho wiring should be OK.

This bit's a little late - did you investigate a tank from a later model 3.0V6 Paj? They have a submerged fuel pump, which could have simplified the fuel system for you. But they only came on coil sprung shorties, so it's unlikely drop in easily._________________GK SE Wagon, twin DCOEs, King's, Konis, noisy exhaust. Oh, and it's red!

mrx78uRegular


I'll be using the magna coil and distributor, keeps everything up to date that way i guess.







I have looked at the option of using the tank from a V6 shorty. But you're right they are the coil sprung version, and the tank doesn't actually fit, or so i'm told.

Fuel system was a piece of cake, the only worry is that the position of the EFI fuel pump at the moment could expose it to damage, although not really likely. I selected areas which sit higher than the brake lines, that way you would think that nothing is likely to come in contact with the area. But of course you can't be too careful. Will probably make up some sort of a guard or bash plate to protect the fuel pump / surge tank. For the same reason I had to sell my surge tank, and use a different one, so that it would be out of harms way.

Will post pics as soon as the surge tank is in. I'm hordeing them at the moment, and putting the together as I do the job, so there's a fully illustrated writeup for anyone who's interested.

mrx78uRegular

Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 6:25 pm Post subject:

Picked up the manifold + bits from cheater yesterday. Everything's looking good, nice work too cheater! I also picked up an adaptor plate for the magna manifold to the sigma head...

Was able to scoot around to repco and pick up some gaskets to fit everything up... well... I learned something the hard way. I was going to use a paj gasket on the head side of the adaptor plate and a magna gasket on the other, made sense to me at the time. Anyway after gasket gooing everything up and trying to fit up the manifold, i've realised that the sigma/paj gasket wont seal off the hole for the mech fuel pump. The magna manifold, and the adaptop plate have been designed to blank this off, but there would have been a gap there... Nasty mess to clean up now. Not to mention two written off gaskets and a world of frustration. I'm covered in gasket goo now and it won't scrub off!!!!!!!!

Can someone tell me what to do with the heater recirc system? Where the f**k can I connect this to the magna manifold? There's two coolant connectors on the magna manifold. One is part of the thermostat housing and the other is in the right spot for the heater return hose. Bear in mind that the thermostat housing is on the other side of the manifold now, which isn't a problem in itself. But the connections are too small for the paj heater system. Surely someone can help me with this one!

Some piccies for interest.





mrx78u wrote:

Can someone tell me what to do with the heater recirc system? Where the f**k can I connect this to the magna manifold? There's two coolant connectors on the magna manifold. One is part of the thermostat housing and the other is in the right spot for the heater return hose. Bear in mind that the thermostat housing is on the other side of the manifold now, which isn't a problem in itself. But the connections are too small for the paj heater system. Surely someone can help me with this one!

Some piccies for interest.



bugger ! on the early EFI manifolds there is an extra heater outlet on the thermo housing I should have drilled and taped a 3/8 bsp thread into the rear so you could fit an outlet for the heater if you cant do it yourself give me a bell

cheater

mrx78uRegular


Ah, no problem cheater. I've cleaned all the loctite off myself now, and I can think again. Was looking back through my manual, and yeah, there used to be a 90 degree fitting on the bottom of the thermostat housing for the heater outlet. I'll tap that hole underneath that section where the thermo housing used to be if you think that will work ok.

Question though, I was looking at the manifold and it looks like the rear coolant port doesn't actually go anywhere... are there channels to circulate the coolant through the manifold, or is it a dead end since the thermo housing was removed? It ceratinly looks like it.

The other thing i'm scratching my head about now is where the coolant hoses which attact to the ISC motor are supposed to connect to.

Oh, should the heater return go to the thermostat housing? or just to the coolant inlet you can see just above where the thermo used to be. (It lines up perfectly though) The only problem is that i'll probably have to re-tap that too because I can fit the heater return hose over the entire threaded bung thingy... I could just hose clamp it on there, but I think it may detatch when under pressure. What do you think?

mrx78uRegular


Hmmm... I don't actually have a BSP tap. Looks like they're pretty expensive too!

Looks like i'm coming down to visit you again cheater.

Cheers, Mick.




the old bypass outlet cant have a hose on it or it will pop off as its a cone shape. the only real way to do the hoses is to copy the way the hoses ran on the old manifold(carb one) and just out of interest where did ya get the plate?

mrx78uRegular


plate came from RALLYANT!

I'm feeling a little bit stumped about the whole project at the moment. I have absolutely no









idea how some of the magna bits are going to connect up, but i'll work it out eventually no doubt. I want to get the thing back on the road by november however. There isn't really that much to be done, i'm just being a cry baby

mrx78uRegular

Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 2:33 pm Post subject:

Alright, cheater was kind enough to tap the water outlet for me, so i'll be able to fit that up. I've also picked up some magna manifold gaskets, so that can be fitted up.

Surge tank should have arrived today, and i've got all the fuel line fittings ready to go, fuel system can be finished and fuel pumps can be wired in.

All i'll need from here is to fit up the computer and get a control relay and fuse box from the magna. Then a few vacum hoses and we should almost be ready for a test fire!!!!

mrx78uRegular

Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 10:41 pm Post subject:

Manifold fitted up just fine. Had to gring away from the thermostat housing a little to fit in the front bolt, and otherwise, all dandy.

Fuel system is finished, and I gave it a quick test run today, fuel supply should be fine, and no leaks that I can see (yet). Will aim to get the fuel rail hosed in, and give the system a test under pressure tomorrow afternoon.

Apart from that, well, I need to fit up the thermostat of course, then plumb up the rest of the





stuff. And well... I can get on to the electricals... fun fun.

Hey, does anyone know where the vacum connection on the fuel pressure regulator needs to go to? Oh and the connection on the throttle body too!

Cheers, Mick.

Author MessagebmxwrxEnthusiast


Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 12:42 am Post subject:

The pressure line on the fuel reg goes to the pipe that used to be at opposite the throttle body on the plenum. Pipe on throttle body goes to the map sensor.

mrx78uRegular


Magna ECU doesn't use a map sensor... If it were a wolf 3d/haltech/microtech on the other hand...

If I was going to use an aftermarket ECU, life would be so easy.

bmxwrxEnthusiast



Yeah after typing that i thought so too. It goes to the thing that looks like a map sensor lol. Plastic part that has a 2 wire plug connected to it, red wires.

mrx78uRegular


Um, maybe you mean the purge solenoid valve?












looks like this and has a red dot on it(usually)

the line runs from the charcoal canitser to the plug to the T/B and the line from the pressure reg runs the the rear of the plenum opposite the t/B

bmxwrxEnthusiast



mrx78u wrote:Um, maybe you mean the purge solenoid valve?

Yeah that would be it

One red wire, one red with green stripe.

mrx78uRegular


Yup that's the one.

Vacum lines are (from what I've been able to find)

1. From manifold to brake booster 2. From manifold to PCV valve 3. From throttle body to charcoal canister purge solenoid valve 4. From plenum to fuel pressure regulator...

Problem being that I no longer have the vacum connection for the fuel pressure regulator, on the plenum side that is. Do you think it would be ok to T off from the PCV valve hose or something, or maybe the charcoal canister purge valve. Alternatively, I could take the plenum back to cheater and ask him to tap me a new vacum connection for the FPR, although I don't really want to drive all the way there again this week.

Cheers, Mick.



http://imageshack.us/





bmxwrxEnthusiast



Yea any one of those will work fine.

Which wires did the efi converts use to supply power to the ecu.

I've went though a bunch and from what i can tell is, the

white/black wire = 12v constant black/yellow = ignition black/blue = ignition black/white = ignition

The smaller black/blue wire i'm going to run to the fuel pump.

Have i got it or am i totally wrong?

mrx78uRegular


I'll have a look through the wiring diagrams tonight when I get home. I haven't decided if i'm going to strip the loom back and remove the unused wires at the plug. Or leave is as it came out of the magna, and splice in where I need to. The first option would be the cleanest, as the loom is obviously designed for the magna engine bay layout, and i'm not using that... My airbox is going to be on the left side of the engine bay.

I was going to run the plug which would normally run to the fuse box, to the right rear corner of the engine bay where the fusable links are located. The I can draw power from there. Although I could draw the ignition signal from the old ignition wires (i'm using the magna coil which plugs into the loom), and the start signal from the starter motor. Although i'd better get back under the bonnet and see if I can get the ignition signal from the right side of the engine bay... Who knows.

It might be better to strip the loom back and run all the power wires straight from the plug on the ECU/RELAY, to their required sources. Can run 50A wires into the cabin for the relay no problem.

Do you think the magna relay will handle the two fuel pumps? Would probably be worth installing a 40A relay for the fuel pumps, that can hide up under the dash too! Keep the engine bay nice and tidy.

I dunno, after your thoughts on the matter.

Cheers, Mick.

Oh, BMXWRX are you using TN-TP or TR-TS?

bmxwrxEnthusiast


Yeah i'm using a TR loom.








I stripped it all back and re-done all the cable protection, and pulled out the wires i reckon i don't need. Made the hole in the firewall a little bigger so that the old magna loom plug will fit in nicely. The AFM wiring is real long, no worries getting over the other side of the engine bay dude.

mrx78uRegular


I've been up working on the loom it's now 12.31am... Stripped a crap load of wires from the loom, it's looking a little neater now. Will start putting it back together tomorrow night.

Tell me about the inhibitor switch / ignition wire. I'm guessing that that inhibitor switch works to cut the power to this wire, for example when auto box is in gear, the inhibitor switch is open circuit or something like that. But then i'm not using the magna ECU to generate the start signal for the solenoid, not that I know which wires are for the start signal anyway.. Are the wires marked for the starter a start signal out, or are they to detect the start signal? Uh, Black/Blue from memory

Actually, looks like the only major difference between the auto and manual TR loom is that the ignition & inhibitor switch wire go to earth, and pins 3 & 7 from the relay both go to the ignition switch. I can't spot anything else right now. Oh Pin 2 on connector A from the ECU is a black wire instead of a black/yellow. Oh and pin 6 on connector C only goes to the AC switch not to the AT ECU.

Cheers, and goodnight! Mick[/i]

mrx78uRegular


I'm a little bit more awake now. Hey bmxwrx, did you find a mysterious yellow/black wire running from the injectors back to the cruise control or something? I'm baffled as to what this is. (I left the injector/throttle body part of the loom intact, so I can't trace that wire.

Yeah, anyway about the Black/blue wire. From the guage of the wire used it looks like an output of some kind it's meant to go to ignition, but what's it do. I'd better go back and refer to the manual wiring diagram again, but i'm just being a bit wary of this. Unless this is the wire that the ECU/RELAY use to get their power, I guess that would make sense.

Also, are you using the knock sensor? If so, is it tapped into the magna block, or does it just bolt on. I don't actually have the knock sensor, and i'll probably end up using it, just not sure where to put it. I've got the plug for it though, still on the plenum support bracket.

I hope the computer will run without an oxygen sensor, because I don't have one. I'll need to move the car to an exhaust shop to have the oxy sensor bung welded to the exhaust manifold.

Oh and one other thing... What the hell is a clock fuse? I checked it past the electronics engineer I have at work and he doesn't know either (this bloke's been in the electronics game for 40 years). Would it also be a good idea to fit some sort of noise filter into the ECU circuit?

That's all I can think of for now... Bye





mrx78uRegular


Maybe I could use a steel plate, tap the hole for the knock sensor straight into it, and bolt this straight to the head? Would that work, I don't know. Should probably should use it though.

mrx78uRegular


Alright, the wiring loom is slowly coming together. Basically i've broken down the loom into the sensors, and everything else that conencts to the computer/relay is set aside as loose wires for connection under the dash.

I made sure all the wires were untangled and running back to the computer plugs where possible, then i've divided the plugs up according to where they need to go in the engine bay.

Whatever is left over as I said above has been picked right back to the ECU plugs and will be hooked up under the dash. Also there's a wire for the ignition sw which runs back from the coil, to inside under the dash.

So i've just got to get the loom taped up again and fit the conduit and we'll be ready to install it. See below.

Wires being sorted out. This is after the extra stuff has been removed

Loom being taped back up. "Yes officer, that's completely standard"





I reckon the best place to start would be to label ALL of the plugs on the original wiring loom. Then strip back all of the tape and conduit. Cut the extra plugs that aren't being used, eg: fuse boxes, AT and AC. The sensor wires you will need so leave them in place. After this is done, you need to tidy up all the sphagetti, in doing this you'll find that there are alot of wires that only joined from one unused plug to another, these can be removed. (I'll post a pic of what came out later tonight). Suddenly your loom got alot simpler!

Then you need to pick all of the loose wires back to the ECU or relay plugs, there should only be one or two loose wires which run to anything else! Once you've got your loose wires all untangled and back at the ECU plugs, then you it would make your life alot easier if you sorted them accordingly to what plug they're attached to. Then you need to label what each of them will need to do. Set these aside for now.

You should now try to seperate all of the plugs where possible so you can trace each plug back to the ECU without any tangles. There are a few which will not trace back. Now is also a good time to put a wrap of tape around the wires per plug, say every 30cm, This keeps everything untangled and tidy. It will help you tell the groups apart too!

Now you can group the plugs according to where they're going to go in the engine bay. Then tape them up together (make sure they're going to reach first or you'll be kicking yourself later!! That's about it, tape them all up and fit the conduit over the top to protect the cables. This is pretty important, think about the state of the tape when you were trying to remove it, you don't want your wires going like this.

I'm planning to run the under dash wires to a small 4 fuse box, then I can get the corect signals to each wire and keep everything nice and tidy. There should be one wire which

needs constand battery power but not much current, and there's a few which need to be connected to the ignition circuit, these will need a fair bit of power, as they will be powering the coil and fuel pumps.

I'll be running the fuel pump wire to a 40A relay, then through a fuse and back to the fuel pumps which are individually fused. I'm planning to run the fuel pumps power via an oil pressure switch, with a 10sec timer in parralel. This will mean that when the ignition is switched on, the fuel pumps will prime for 10sec then switch off. Then when you turn the engine over, the oil pressure will increase, and the pumps will come on again. Being in parraled, this will provide some protection in the event of a fuel line failure, so the pumps will turn off when the engine stalls. Of course this wont work well with the lift pump because there's a litre of fuel in the surge tank, and if the EFI pump is still running it wont starve the engine of fuel for a few seconds...

This may also be of some help

Rant off, hope this helps.

Cheers, Mick.

bmxwrxEnthusiast


Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2006 12:00 pm Post subject:

Yea i thin ki remember that wire. I cut it off, i thought it was used by the auto ecu. My loom was out of an auto magna, i'm not sure about yours?

Tried to connect up all the power wirees last night and its got no spark, need to do some sussing out today. Also i'm not going to run an O2 sensor or knock sensor for the moment. The O2 sensor is a single wire or switch type. Knock sensor i can do without for now. The magna ecu will run fine without these for now.

Author Messagebmxwrx Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2006 7:44 pm Post subject:





Enthusiast


Got mine fired up this arvo and was stoked it all ran haha.

The wiring i listed worked fine, except i ran the fuel pump supply straight from the ign source.

mrx78uRegular


Got some piccies? Also did you find out why you had no spark? Where did you get your ignition source from? And you don't happen to remember the colour of the factory temp guage wire do you?

I should be just about ready to fire mine up tomorrow. Need to install one hose clamp and the air intake, and I should be just about ready to go

Here's some piccies of how things are coming along.

bmxwrxEnthusiast


Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 10:55 am Post subject:

Yeah i'll post up my pics tonight, the bay is alot more packed than yours being a scorpion. No ignition was because the main relay was'nt turning on because i forgot to earth the loom in the engine bay lol. After that it was fine.

My scorpions water temp wire was yellow with a red stripe i'm pretty sure and it sits where your thermostat sits now. I'm using the magna temp sensor, but it works fine on the scorpion water temp guage. Remember to take out the plugs in the top of your inlet manifold when you are filling it with coolant, i found the air gets big pockets there.

mrx78uRegular


Well I finally got everything wired up. I've ended up using the ECU to run the fuel







pumps, but through a relay to power both pumps.

I tapped straight into the ignition switch wire to power the ECU and relay, the fuel pump is powered straight from the batt through a 30a relay.

Anyway, Once I had everything wired up, thought it was time for a quick systems test checked over everything quickly to make sure all was ok and I hadn't missed

anything. Clicked across to ignition... Nothing. Oops, earth the engine bay loom... Fuel pumps primed up! Shut everything downl again and did a bit of a walkaround, everything looks ok, except I can smell a bit of fuel in the engine bay. I checked around a bit, and found a small trace of fuel on the return line. Couldn't understand how, so I switched the ignition on again and poked my head in the engine bay... FUEL LEAK!!!! I could see a little jet of fuel coming from... The weld at the bottom of the fuel rail. Damn it, I can't fix that one. Otherwise everything is fine. Will try to get that fixed this week.

What's the firing order? 1,3,2,4?

Oh, the only plug in the top of my inlet manifold is the heater outlet, and the thermostat housing. Will disconnect the heater outlet hose for filling.

mrx78uRegular


Haha, computer is turning the check engine light on... I wonder why

SEWagonEnthusiast



mrx78u wrote:What's the firing order? 1,3,2,4?

Close. 1,3,4,2._________________GK SE Wagon, twin DCOEs, King's, Konis, noisy exhaust. Oh, and it's red!

bmxwrxEnthusiast



Yeah i screwed up the firing order first aswell haha.

What is the magnas base timing supposed to be at idle?

I tried setting the idle according to the book by earthing the timing check connector, but no go. Book said to set it at 0 degrees with connector earthed, then with connector un-earthed it should read 13 degrees. I'm not sure if its gone into a limp mode without







the auto computer?

mrx78uRegular


You need to ground the Ignition/inhibitor switch wire (black/yellow) to tell the ECU that it's a manual I think. There's only one ECU part number for manual and auto, and that's the only difference I can see from the wiring diagram.

I'll fix the firing sequence soon, and get the fuel rail fixed... I can't wait to fire the thing up!! Broom broom

Ever heard of a starter solenoid that sticks on? Because i've got on... Let go of start, and she'll keep turning for a few seconds. Hopefully that sorts itself out. Can't get to it with the manifold on

Hopefully next time the manifold comes off it will be to fit a magna head. It might be sooner however, because the magna gaskets don't match the sig/paj head, even with the adaptor plate. Ideally I'd need a sigma gasket with the blanked section for the mech fuel pump, the magna gasket exposes the channel which runs through the sig/paj manifold face. We'll see what heppens huh

bmxwrxEnthusiast



Yeah i could earth that wire, but its pretty big lol. Might try checking the wiring diagram first, i know the looms are different from manual to auto, but nfi on the ecus.

mrx78uRegular


The ECU is definately the same for manual or auto. I checked with bosch

bmxwrxEnthusiast



Cheers dude, i just changed the timing to about 8 degrees btdc and it made heaps of difference compared to the old motor. The extra power alone makes the efi conversion worth it.









mrx78uRegular


In fear of sounding like an absolute idiot... oh well bugger it. Which plug on the dizzy cap goes to cylinder one? I can't see markings on mine.

Oh and 8deg BTDC is the pajero's standard timing. Any good tips for setting base timing? I turned the engine over by hand until cylinder one reached TDC then set the dizzy to cylinder one (if I knew which one that is)

I don't really wanna pull the cam cover off to set timing.

zyweikKodos Equivelent

Joined: Mar 10, 2006Posts: 1612Location: Central Coast, NSW


cant tell you which one exactly but on the saturn there is a 'score' on the dizzy and when the rotor is lined up with that the next one in the line of rotation is cylinder one..

hope that makes sence??_________________

what? you did a crap in the refrigerator? and you ate the whole wheel of cheese? and im not even mad.. amazing!!

SEWagonEnthusiast



On mine, #1 cylinder is the top one i.e. the rotor points basically up. I have a reluctor type pickup, so by turning the crank to put the timing mark at about 10 deg BTDC I can make a pretty good guess for the dizzy timing. With the hall effect pickup, I'm not sure which bits should line up where._________________GK SE Wagon, twin DCOEs, King's, Konis, noisy exhaust. Oh, and it's red!

mrx78uRegular


Alright, after some fiddling around with the timing, i've got it running only problem is it's running like a two stroke.

I've cleaned the plugs, and checked the timing again 8deg BTDC, should be fine. My guess is that there's weak or no spark to a cylinder or else no fuel to one. Plugs all look like they're ok, although 1 and 4 looked a bit sooty.

I probably need to grab a recoed set of injectors anyway, might as well get new plugs, and i'll probably fit the old leads back on. I know they were fine. Anyone else got any ideas?

Any ideas? Vacuum leak, faulty injector, etc???

I'm missing a couple of nuts from the plenum to manifold fitting, it's sealed up pretty









well though, better install these anyway!

Author MessagebmxwrxEnthusiast


Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 8:23 am Post subject:

Yeah mine idles like its gots miss too. I noticed that at the wreckers all the TR magna injectors have been taken, could be a common problem?

Got mine running on 15degrees now, i figured the book said it should rest on 13 at idle and it made more power going to 15 degrees so i might leave it there until i get the new ecu and knock sensor on.

TurboGJ260Regular

Joined: May 25, 2006Posts: 123Location: Adelaide

Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 8:45 am Post subject:

i used the tp magna setup on mine works a treat even with low compression at the moment... Sigma block with tp magna head. had to advance the timeing to 25 degrees btdc to get it to run properly for the time being. Haltech e6x is going to b the next step with bigger injectors bosch 044 fuel pump and my t3 bb turbo.... ohhh yeah _________________Never underestimate the predictabaility of stupidity

mrx78uRegular


I'll replace the injectors and see if that helps. Going to re check the fuel system tomorrow as well to make sure there's no leaks.

bmxwrxEnthusiast



Well i fucked off the magna ecu and loom today for an aftermarket unit.

Heaps easier to wireup, would definitly recommend this to anyone doing the swap. However if anyone wants a tr magna ecu and loom you can have mine. Or else i'm just gonna chuck it.

Ohyeah, even after i changed the ecu over the "miss" stayed. Pretty sure its injectors, going to change them over to some rx7 injectors tomorrow with a bit of luck.









mrx78uRegular

Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 10:04 pm Post subject:

New injectors went in today, cylinder three isn't getting fuel, does have spark though. Gave the injector a tap as it said in the instructions, and off she went. So the engine is running beautifully!

But, I have major cooling system issues... Filled the coolant up and it pissed out everywhere. It's escaping from the gasket between the adaptor plate and the cylinder head. No such gasket exists to suit the sigma head and blank off the oil pump. There's also a leak near the thermostat housing, not sure if it's a leaky weld or gasket. Don't really care at this point.

Good time to clean up and walk away for the afternoon.

Options from here? I'm thinking, either weld up the magna manifold so it suits the sigma/pajero head's rear water passage, and custom make a gasket, because of course non exist which accomodate the blanked off mech fuel pump area. Alternatively I could buy a recoed magna cylinder head and fit that up.

I couldn't be stuffed pulling everything apart again, but I guess I don't have much choice now... Just when it's running properly too!

Cheater tells me that the magna head should fit the pajero block without any dramas, reckons that the pajero already has the flat top pistons, anyone got any ideas. A cylinder head shop suggested I may need to get the water passages on the head welded up too. I don't know though, will talk to cheater tomorrow.

Oh and BMX, i've got no troubles with the magna ECU whatsoever. Even runs without the air flow meter! No extra tuning required. And easy enough to wire up once all the extra crap has been removed. Lack of EGO sensor probably means limp home mode though.

Cheers and goodnight, Mick.

SEWagonEnthusiast


Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 12:09 am Post subject:

I've been trying to figure out what to do when I try the Magna EFI route. I was thinking of welding a new mounting face to the Magna manifold, so that it bolts up to the Sigma head - a sort of "Sigmafied" Magna manifold, using Sigma bolt pattern and coolant holes.

I see two options to get around the fuel pump hole. Either build something into the new manifold (like the Magna manifold has) or make a separate blanking plate. Either way, leave the original fuel pump studs in place in the Sigma head, and use the standard fuel pump gasket (with RTV?)

I haven't had a good look, so there's probably a simple reason why it won't work. I'm a long way off turning any spanners on this project. _________________GK SE Wagon, twin DCOEs, King's, Konis, noisy exhaust. Oh, and it's red!







mrx78u wrote:

But, I have major cooling system issues... Filled the coolant up and it pissed out everywhere. It's escaping from the gasket between the adaptor plate and the cylinder head. No such gasket exists to suit the sigma head and blank off the oil pump. There's also a leak near the thermostat housing, not sure if it's a leaky weld or gasket. Don't really care at this point.

Options from here? I'm thinking, either weld up the magna manifold so it suits the sigma/pajero head's rear water passage, and custom make a gasket, because of course non exist which accomodate the blanked off mech fuel pump area. Alternatively I could buy a recoed magna cylinder head and fit that up.

Cheers and goodnight, Mick.

good to see its all running mick

how did the fuel rail go this time ? and before you spend money on a head as as the manifold will need to come off any way I think welding up the rear water outlet to fit a pajero/sigma head is the way to go

it will still work on a magna head i you fit one in the future

cheater

bmxwrxEnthusiast


Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 2:04 pm Post subject:

If its of any help mrx78u, I am running a TR magna head and manifold on an Astron I block and everything lines up fine. I did'nt modify the bottom intake manifold though.

I'd suggest going this route.

Surprizing the car st ill runs with no AFM though lol

mrx78uRegular


Yeah I noticed it runs without the AFM, was backfiring though. I think getting head will be the best option

That or custom make a gasket, or use the sigma gaskets with an extra fuel pump gasket section.







bmxwrxEnthusiast


Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 5:27 pm Post subject:

What did you do for the fuel pickup from the tank? I bought a vn commie fuel tank, cut out the sender and soldered it into the scorpion tank. Getting some chronic fuel surge atm. I thought i should use the stock pickup but was worried it would'nt flow enough. I'm only using a single pump atm.

Ohyeah, does your alternator have only 1 wire going to it? Or does it have a plug aswell? I'm having issues with this too lmao.

mrx78uRegular

Posted: Wed Oct 04, 2006 11:52 am Post subject:

I left the fuel pickup from the tank standard. I'm using a Facet electric carb type to pump fuel from the fuel tank to a surge tank. Then there's a VL turbo pump which pumps from the surge tank up to the fuel rail at EFI pressure.

The alternator has one large cable to the battery, and a plug with 4?? wires which run back into the wiring loom. I don't know what that's for but I would guess it's to engage and disengage the clutch based on current draw or something.

reginaNewbie

Joined: Apr 03, 2006Posts: 95Location: Green Point, Central Coast.

Posted: Sat Oct 07, 2006 11:19 pm Post subject: conversion

Very informative,

Good thread!

Mick_________________1975 LA Mitsubishi Lancer 4 door VR4 4G63 powered.

mrx78uRegular


Engine is running like a dream, got the throttle cable hooked up on the weekend, and was able to take her for a spin around the front yard. New gasket made for the inlet manifold, and the rear water channel welded up... Oh no, still leaking. Only one coolant leak this time. Gotta pull it all apart again and try to locate. This is going to drive me nuts...

Still, she's running brilliantly!!! Smooth, and plenty of power.

Hint* Don't use a normal pod filter, it confuses the AFM and causes the engine to run crap. Magna airbox, or K&N make one specifically for the mitsi AFM.

mrx78uRegular












An updated piccy.

Manifold has been removed again, found the coolant leak, it's a good one. Will fix it up this time, everything else is done. With the exception of getting some intake hose to go from the TB to the airbox. Decided on using the magna airbox to keep things looking tidy and so as not to play havoc with the AFM.

SEWagonEnthusiast



Is that the Magna airbox in the front corner of the engine bay?

Looks like the airbox in my Paj, which has a radically different afm and connector to any of the Magna stuff I've seen. _________________GK SE Wagon, twin DCOEs, King's, Konis, noisy exhaust. Oh, and it's red!

Author MessageMYToyGEEnthusiast



WTF that thing is huge.... there has to be another way of gettin the engin to run without that waist of space.

shootdog4funMotormouth


Slightly off-topic, but I've noticed that there are two types of EFI manifolds, theres one with red writing and appears to have a smaller plenum, then theres another







Joined: Mar 10, 2006Posts: 707Location: Sydney

which has black writing, and has longer runners and aren't joined, the plenum is longer.

So which one is better, or are none of them.

mrx78uRegular


The plenum with the red lettering is first gen magna (TN, TP), and the one o've got there is second gen (TR, TS).

Which is better? Well the TR, TS are obviously newer, and produce more power and torque. However I believe they have a different head as well. Although it does seem that the second get manifold is a pain in the ass for this mod. Second gen has a larger throttle body as well. With this conversion, i'd say it's probably a fair guess that the second gen ECU is better too.

First gen is physically smaller, i'm told it's easier to work with and in the case of a sigma or scorpion it may be much easier to fit under the bonnett. (Second gen is taller)

First gen airbox is much easier to work with too!

mrx78uRegular

Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2006 6:50 pm Post subject:

Coolant leak is fixed!!! Yay! Cheater fixed it up for me, go cheater you champ.

Now I seem to have a fuel leak in the fuel pressure regulator? WTF???? Any ideas anyone? I'm baffled as to how this could be.


Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2006 7:10 pm Post subject:

from where on the reg, it could just be an "o" ring








mrx78uRegular

Posted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 11:28 am Post subject:

Looks like it's actually coming out of the casing, doesn't seem to be the O ring. Thinking that it could be coming from the O ring or from the fuel line and working it's way up under pressure, although doesn't seem too likely.

Beats me, guess it will have to come off again... Sigh. Tricky to get at the fuel rail once everything is installed. Geez i'm a whinger.

mrx78uRegular

Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 3:22 pm Post subject:

New FPR on it's way. Will replace the return fuel line while i'm at it just in case.

What's everyone done with their air intake plumbing? TB is 70mm, the pipe off the AFM is 80mm. Can I easily get a coupler, so I can say use 70mm air hose?



Posted: Sun Nov 05, 2006 8:24 am Post subject:

just out of interest r u against using a pod filter

banana_socksRegular

Joined: Oct 12, 2006Posts: 132Location: Adelaide

Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 6:03 pm Post subject:

From what I read somewhere, either in this topic or another, a pod filter screws with the mitsubish AFM. So it doesn't work very well with the stock ECU, probably why he's bothering to get the standard airbox in.











Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 6:12 pm Post subject:

^yes it will screw with it badly! But K&N make a pod and adaptor that will not mess with it.

MCB_JETEnthusiast


Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 8:02 pm Post subject:

I brought a K&N pod filter made for Magna AFM from a wreaker for $10 ( what a bargin ) It works well ,no problems




^^ now you got a good deal there

MCB_JETEnthusiast



About $160 off new price









mrx78uRegular

Posted: Sat Nov 25, 2006 7:55 pm Post subject:

Turns out the fuel leak was the FPR. That's been replaced, and everything re-assembled and checked over again. I'm currently doing some modifications to the magna airbox, so that I can plumb it into a snorkel or a pre filter (obviously for off road use).

Removed the old preflter bracket today as well. Spot welds are a pain in the ass to get that off. Now I have to flatten out the bent/drilled out welds, clean the area up, prime, and fill the holes. Lots of that to be done! oh well!

Last edited by mrx78u on Mon Nov 27, 2006 9:21 am; edited 1 time in total

mrx78uRegular

Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 10:22 pm Post subject:

Finished off cleaning up the wiring today, as well as checking over everything again. All seems well... It's been out for a test run, and seems to be running well.

Unfortunately I had to use the crappy pod filter that i've got kicking around, but I found that if you jam a rag in the end inlet (externally) it reduces the AFM misreadings. Anyway, I've got some plumbing to have done, I think i'll have to have something fabricated. I need an oxygen sensor installed, and she should be ready for a day offroad.

Fun fun.

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tandanusMotormouth

Joined: Mar 10, 2006Posts: 522Location: NSW Central Coast

Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 10:57 am Post subject:

V Nice work. T.

mrx78uRegular

Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 8:04 pm Post subject:

Apart from the cooling issue i'm dealing with at the moment (i'll replace said welch plug this weekend) I have the following probs, perhaps soneone has some ideas

1. Timing is staying put 1 5deg BTDC regardless of the timing check connector being earthed or not

2. Idle at 900rpm with idle screw all the way in

3. Despite a nice smooth idle, when I start I need to press the accelerator, almost like it's not adjusting the AF ratio to suit

My thoughs are

1. Computer in limp mode due to no knock or EGO sensor??

2. Same as aboce

3. AF ratio set too rich for above reason/timing too far advanced for above, or could be





worth adjusting the throttle stop screw?

Thanks in advance!!!




ok i work on ALOT of magnas and what i've found is

disasemble the T/body and clean the idle air bypass with nulon carb clean. and the stepper motor on the bottom of the t/bs shit themselves alot on the TR/TS!

Have u not fitted the Knock sensor or oxy sensor? will cause probs! have u set up the original engine light from the magna loom? if so is it on? hard cold starting may be due to a fault with the coolant temp sensor always reading hot!(had one today that did this) do u run thermo fans?

have u connected the water lines to the t/body. set the timing without the plug earthed its a load of shit! the spec i have with no earthout is 13btdc

mrx78uRegular


Ok, i'll clean the idle air bypass as you say.

Knock sensor I couldn't fit because i'm using the pajero block, and without tapping the block, there's no provision to install it as far as I can see.

Oxy sensor, haven't done it yet. Again needs to be tapped into the extractors. Gotta get it kinda running first before I can get it to an exhaust shop to have that done.

I have wired up the check engine light, and it's not on...??? I was expecting that it should be, but i've never read an output from that wire. Checked it on the multimeter as well, and it is a dead circuit. I assume it should be a 12v output from the ECU.

I guess you mean the coolant temp sensor for the ECU? or the signal from the ISC...?

I'm currently running one thermo fan, as well as the clutched fan

Coolant lines to the throttle body are linked up from the heater bypass line

Will take your advice re: timing. Currently fixed a 5deg BTDC, doesn't change at all.

youngyNewbie

Joined: Jul 12, 2006Posts: 3

Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 12:22 pm Post subject:

Get the knock sensor and oxy sensor tapped in dude and all your probs will be fixed i had the same prob and with your clutch fan rip it off and get another thermo or pull the cooling setup out of a tr , tp .

It good to hear u have almost finished the conversion keep up the good work u will get there lol







mrx78uRegular

Posted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 12:04 pm Post subject:

Yeah, will give that a go. Should be able to get the parts relatively cheaply. Somewhat over the whole project now. But i'll continue.

Thinking about taking it to the mechanics to finish a few little things, such as the F**king welsh plug which I can't get installed, bloody thing. I can't get a decent hit on it with the engine in and I don't have the gear to get the engine out.

Will keep you posted.

mrx78uRegular

Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 10:37 pm Post subject:

Latest images taken today with the new (10"+12") thermo fans in place and running. Will probably build a proper shroud for them when I get a new radiator, but for now will keep them installed as per instructions.

Let me know what you think, and feel free to point out anything stupid, with the exception of the intake hose sitting on the front of the cylinder head, and the breather attached to a bolt on the intake runners.

Have some cable to run tonight from the dash switches to the thermo fan and driving light relays.

As for the knock sensor, i'm going to have a metal plate tapped to fit that in, I will then bolt it hard to the intake side of the block to save tapping it into the block. Probably not ideal, but should keep the ECU happy that way. The local parts guy has a tool for installing the welsh plug i'm struggling with at the moment, he's also going to weld an oxygen sensor bung to the exhaust for me... yay. Should run like a dream then, provided everything else is working ok. Can't tell until everything is finished though.





MCB_JETEnthusiast


Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 2:00 pm Post subject:

Looks good.



mrx78uRegular


Knock sensor went on today, seems to make a *little* difference. Only the oxygen sensor left to install and should be all done. I have a slight feeling that something isn't quite right, doesn't idle very well cold. But will have to wait and see what happens when the oxygen sensor is installed.

SEWagonEnthusiast



AFAIK, the O2 sensor is ignored until the engine is warm - so it may be a problem with your temp sensor.

Isn't the ECU temp sensor different from the temp gauge sender?_________________GK SE Wagon, twin DCOEs, King's, Konis, noisy exhaust. Oh, and it's red!

mrx78uRegular

Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 8:18 am Post subject:

Ok, if that's the case could it be possible that the temp sensor is telling the ECU that the engine is hot, even from cold. Guess I should chuck the multimeter on there and check. Not too sure if the ISC motor is working either.

I didn't know the OXY sensor was ignored, but could it not being there cause the ECU to fault anyway?

I checked the TPS yesterday and it all seems to be fine, which is a good thing, and i'm pretty sure that the timing is varying now, Dumb question though, should the timing retard on acceleration? Still not totally confident that it's working properly.



Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 12:07 pm Post subject:

whoa, looking good mate


mrx78u Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 2:59 pm Post subject:











RegularReplacing the coolant temp sensor tonight, will let you know how it goes.

mrx78uRegular

Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 4:24 pm Post subject:

Ok... I did an ECU self diagnostic, and there's a "Crank angle sensor circuit error. Wouldn't this mean that the engine wouldn't run?? Because it's running. Not well but definately running.

Author Messagescorp16Kodos Equivelent



may still run but may have a dizzy or wiring fault looking at your pic above and and work out where your rear rocker cover breather is running to

MCB_JETEnthusiast



^^^ vaccum leak ???idle like crap.

mrx78uRegular


Haha i'm not that stupid . Only a little stupid. The breather is sealed up for now, not









connected to the inlet but has been sealed. This should be ok shouldn't it? I can't see anywhere else where there would be a vacuum leak, unless I buggered up the inlet manifold or runner gaskets...?? The only vacuum lines being used are the brake booster, the fuel pressure regulator PCV valve, and of course the breather which i've blanked off until I can install a fitting on the air intake for it.

Apart from the obvious is there any technique for testing & locating vacuum leaks?

Knock sensor now installed, there was a nice little bolt hole in the side of the engine which was just the right size, no it wasn't intended for knock sensor.

mrx78uRegular


So far my checks on the dizzy as per the magna manual are showing up fine. Will do some more checks tomorrow and see how that goes. Would probably explain the lack of advance on revs, and why the timing check connector does nothing. Could be the reason for the bad idle?? Timing, it's set at 12 degrees roughly at the moment.




dont block it off. the pvc valve aint always open and pressure can build and cause pissing oil leaks from every seal. (trust me i have fixed these on plenty of cars when the oils not changed and sludge blocks the breathers and then its fix all the leaks time) yes u can vent it to the air for now or on the inlet track but no air leaks from it and u cant put the rear one onto the inlet vacume. but u could just chuck a breather on it for now.

Magnas usually run poorly from fucked IAC valves, vacume leaks, tps is always a problem. stepper motor probs. ecus r also common and the odd fuel pressure reg. I also worry about your intake setup. i also ran my opd on the other side untill i moved the battery to the boot. but i ran hard piping from and r31 skyline and exhaust pipe across the front of the motor.

mrx78uRegular


PCV valve is plumbed back into exactly where it was on the magna, which is on the inlet runners off the top of my head. Rear breather is blanked off, used to plumb into the intake hose on the magna. There's a fitting for it on the little 90 deg bend off the magna. (Pretty sure I got this right). I'm pretty sure the ISC motor is stuffed, I tested the TPS and it seems fine, checked out all voltages and resistances, and it's responding as it should be.

Stuffed ISC will have the effect of not regulating the idle speed correctly, shouldn't cause it to idle rough at 900rpm, am I right?

How could running a rubber hose cause any issues? Apart from the extra turbulence, which shouldn't effect anything except the AFM which is before the hose. BTW will







probably get my exhaust bloke to make up a nice clean intake when I can move the vehicle there under it's own power safely.

POS smegma crap... Ha, my old man's got one with over 400,000kms on it. Runs like new too, yes even the auto transmission. Has had one top end overhaul at 300,000 or something.

Oh yeah, the FPR is brand new too! So are the injectors and temp sensor now. If this error doesn't clear, and I can't find another fault, I'll probably have a new dizzy too

bmxwrxEnthusiast



I had the timing problem that you have aswell. Is your ecu and loom from an auto or manual?

I thought about finding what the problem could be for less than a second, but then i chucked out all the OEM loom and ecu for a programmable ecu and never looked back.

If i were you this is what i would do, so much less bullshit

mrx78uRegular

Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 10:26 am Post subject:

There is absolutely no way that this project is worth another $1500. Will try to get an ISC motor at "happy price" this weekend. Gradually replace everything, ECU last. ECU is from an auto, but shouldn't cause a problem. Worst case, I have to source a manual ECU from bosch also at "happy price", but not just yet. The ECU isn't reporting any issues with the auto transmission, and it's wired up as a manual, so it should be fine. (I think)

I'll get there eventually, remembering that all the parts came off a piece of crap old worn out magna, so everything is probably stuffed, I wouldn't be suprised.

mrx78uRegular

Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 8:40 pm Post subject:

I checked over the distributor today, twice and couldn't fault it. Went back over the ECU wiring, and checked continuity at all points and it all showed up fine. Used the opportunity to open up the ECU and check the capacitors, which pop occassionally, and the ECU is fine.

The worrying thing is that I put it all back together, and... It works perfectly. The only error showing now is the oxygen sensor circuit error. Idle is much better now. I tested and re-adjusted the TPS, and that's all good now too.

Um... there was quite a bit of water on the ground behind the exhaust when I fired it up today. It's been raining and very humid, so i'll put that down to condensation for now. I'm keeping an eye on it though, I'm pretty sure the head gasket is fine, just a little worried about the inlet manifold coolant ports possibly leaking into the inlet ports. It's got a good gasket which has been installed with loctite gasket sealant, and all the bolts are torqued up good and proper. The other place that would be possible to leak would be where I reinstalled the fast idle air valve to the throttle body, damaged the rubber seal, so I used RTV silicon instead.







It's interesting to note that it runs quite nicely now, until the engine reaches near operating temp, and the oxy sensor readings need to be used... Then the idle turns crap again.

Now back to this welsh plug problem...

mrx78uRegular


This seems to have become more of a blog, but I guess that's the point.

Need a question answered... What would cause no advance, but no check engine light?

bmxwrxEnthusiast



Lol it seems a bit that way hey haha

I'd say it because of no auto transmission because i had the same problem and was using an auto ecu too.

Set the advance to about 10-12 degrees and she will go good

mrx78uRegular


There's only two wires which actually go to the auto transmission. One is for the auto transmission ECU and A/C switch and the other is for the inhibitor switch. Don't know if these would cause any problems. The inhibitor switch wire is earthed, and the other has been cut. Not sure if the connection to the Auto trans ECU is just a cold contact type switch input, or serial comms. I might talk to the local mitsi wrecker, and try installing a manual ECU, see what happens.

Otherwise, it could only be the timing signal, or the TPS which would cause this. Computer isn't showing errors on either of these. Although the TPS could possibly be sending the wrong signal, where as the TDC & CAS would be more likely to work, or not work. In which case if there was a problem the ECU would pick that up.

Of course i've been wrong before.

Oh took it for a good test run before, running nicely and drives quite well (not perfect though). Will be interesting to see how it runs once the EGO sensor is installed. And the timing issue is obvious while driving. No flat spots though. Engine never gets hot, but fair bit of variation in coolant temp, probably doesn't help that I have a leaking welsh plug though. Hoping that the change of thermo housing location hasn't affected the flow in some way which I don't understand.







MCB_JETEnthusiast



My temp guage moves up and down a fair bit too ( between 1/3 and 2/3 )




mine sits between 82-84 degrees

mrx78uRegular


Perhaps you should look into that one. Mine's varying from 1/3 to 2/5, although it's a cool day.

Oh, as of today (sorry 56k'ers)







And what it looked like when I started



From a very helpful EFI tech (this guy repairs ECUs as well)

Quote:Timing advance (and dwell) on the Magna EFI is controlled by the ECU from an RPM map plus corrections from various input sensors. For the timing

to be locked on "base" timing (no advance whatsoever) suggests that it has either lost a "primary" input (signal from Air Flow Sensor or signal from Coolant Temp sensor) or is "bridged out" spark signal bridge from round plug

on inner LHS guard on std Magna) or the ECU itself is stuffed. Throttle position, Oxy. sensor, auto ECU, speed sensor if not present at engine ECU will partially limit max. timing advance in certain conditions but not lock it on "base" timing.

82CanterNewbie


Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 10:54 am Post subject:

Newbie here! Hi all. Have read this thread from go-whoa. Sensational. I have a '82 Canter Light Truck with the 4G54 motor that lacks a bit of oommph on steady inclines (dies like a diesel) and into head winds. Have been considering EFI conversion, turbo or complete V8 transplant. Reading this thread has convinced me to start with the basics.

I hear a 32/36 Weber can deliver some performance improvements over the original Hitachi (from memory, this project Pajero had one! How much $ into Melbourne?). Any comments please?

Thanks





Murray

P.S. Where's the rest of the story? Don't keep me in suspense!

reginaNewbie

Joined: Apr 03, 2006Posts: 95Location: Green Point, Central Coast.

Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 12:28 pm Post subject: Good trhread

Having read this thread a few months ago, gave me the motivation to convert my 2.6 astron engine in my 89 nb pajero. Started a fort night ago and have finished it. Very good thread, very good read.

Cheers, Mick_________________1975 LA Mitsubishi Lancer 4 door VR4 4G63 powered.

GAZ914Newbie

Joined: Mar 10, 2006Posts: 92Location: Sydney, Australia

Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 1:42 pm Post subject:

mrx78u wrote:For the timing to be locked on "base" timing (no advance whatsoever) suggests that it has either lost a "primary" input (signal from Air Flow Sensor or signal from Coolant Temp sensor) or is "bridged out" spark signal bridge from round plug

on inner LHS guard on std Magna) or the ECU itself is stuffed.

Faulty connection on the coolant temp sensor stuffed the timing on the Sigma of Death. No fault codes, so took a lttle while to work it out

Once that was sorted I had a AFM fault, which also screwed the timing (fault code set).

Once I fixed those two, was all good and is going like a train

cheers Gaz_________________If it seems easy, be thankful for that! '82 GJ EFI (motorkhana) '73 GB '71 GA ('khana project) '02 Barina SRi '97 VS Commodore '89 Patrol diesel '72 914 (project)

SigmaManiacRegular

Joined: Mar 13, 2006Posts: 196Location: SA

Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 7:44 pm Post subject:

has anyone by any chance copied this thread into a word document or sumthin?? i want to print it off. ill do a word or maybe pdf document if no one else has.

im surprised this thread hasn't been stickied... sticky this thread! _________________







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