love getting to the heart of it with tom stone [episode 43] wired for success tv

~ Wired for Success TV ~Mastering the 7 Areas of Life

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Presented by

Melanie Gabriel & Beryl Thomas

[Episode 43]

Love? Getting to the Heart of it

with Tom Stone

http://www.wiredforsuccess.tv/

Love? Getting to the Heart of it with Tom Stone [Episode 43]

Wired For Success TV

[0:00:12]

Melanie: Hello and welcome to another episode of http://www.wiredforsuccess.tv. I’m Mel Gabriel and with me is my co-host, Beryl Thomas. Say hello, Beryl.

Beryl: Hello, everyone.

Melanie: And we have the pleasure of welcoming back, Tom Stone. Say hi, Tom.

Tom: Hi, everyone.

Melanie: Now folks, if you have no idea who Tom is, then stop this recording right now and head back to episode 38 and have a good listen. Even if you only listen for the 15 or 20 minutes, you’ve got to do this now. You will gain a fascinating peek into the amazing technology that he’s pioneered that will completely eradicate anxiety, depression, seemingly incurable illnesses and life-crippling issues that stop us creating success in every area of our life.

I know this sounds like a huge claim to make but I can tell you, I’ve used Tom’s technology for some ten or more years with unbelievable success. For example, I worked with people who have been set aside by the system as being beyond help and even using really advanced hypnotic techniques, it used to take me up to a year to help these people get back to some sort of normality. Now, after discovering Tom’s techniques, the time I spend with these people is reduced to just a quarter, weeks sometimes of working with these people to get the same results.

There is such a wealth of information that Tom could share with us that we could easily run interviews with him for a year. But for now, we’re going to focus on how we can bring our relationships back into balance and

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especially how we can see off crippling emotions like hearth break or resentments that eat away at us like a cancer.

One thing I’d like to make clear is that although we were probably focused on intimate relationships, what we will describe is a template for every other type of relationship you have in your life from your business relationships to the relationship with yourself, from your relationship with money to your relationship with authority, from your relationship with your body and your health and lifestyle to your understanding of who you are and the contribution you make in the world. And I could go on.

But let’s get Tom to enlighten us on how we can become more emotionally mature in our relationships and release fear and anxiety that clouds our thinking if when nothing else’s work. So Tom, it’s really great to have you back. But cutting to the chase …

Tom: Thanks for having me back.

Melanie: We’re delighted. Now Tom, there’s a lot of juice we want to squeeze out of you for our audience today. So, please …

Tom: Squeeze away.

Melanie: … please define for us exactly what a healthy relationship is because I suspect that very few of us have even considered that we’re living in dysfunctional relationships because large we’ve known nothing else or worse, we’re surrounded by other dysfunctional relationships and we assume that this is the norm. I remember having the experience of – in fact, it was right about the time I met you. I was with a boyfriend and we admitted to each other that we weren’t happy with the relationship and when I wanted to change it and especially when I started working with you, I started to change. And he thought I was unreasonable because his mother was unhappy, his mother and father were unhappy, his sister and her husband were unhappy, the dog was unhappy, the budget was unhappy. What was my problem?

So what should a mature relationship, a healthy relationship, an extraordinary relationship look like?


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Tom: Well, you’re certainly right that the vast majority of people are living inside a whole batch of patterns of conditioning that caused them to live a life that they think is normal but is absolutely subnormal and they are unconscious of that fact. So it’s a great way to start actually.

I do have a little list in – I’ve written a book actually called Extraordinary Relationships and in it I have a list of characteristics that I feel are some of the primary characteristics of extraordinary relationship. The first one is a deep sense of ease and appreciation. No need – no feeling of a need to change the other person in any way.

Resentment-free. Has all the qualities you really want that means that you’re not settling for being someone that you don’t really want to be with. It includes both intimacy and independence. Most people don’t even – have the possibility of thinking that those two characteristics could be simultaneously present in a relationship but they certainly can.

Has an optimal environment for mutual growth. One of the powerful things about a good relationship is it tends to be almost like an advanced spiritual practice. When you’re in a relationship with someone that really knows you deeply, you get opportunities to have your remaining stuff that you need to deal with get pushed to the surface by virtue of the relationship so that you get to deal with them.

And as long as you’re not saying, “Oh, that’s your problem,” as long as you can learn how to see it as a mirror and take that as an opportunity that you’re getting access to something in you that needs to grow then the relationship can serve as this powerful phenomenon for your evolution and your growth. So having the optimal environment for mutual growth is really good and having each person understand that that’s an intrinsic part of the relationship.

Also, having it be fun and fulfilling, having a deep appreciation of differences also kind of goes along with the one of not wanting to change a person.

And the last but certainly not the least, it’s got to have a great lovemaking. It’s an essential part of a really good relationship. There are more but I


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would say those are some of the highlight points of a really extraordinary relationship.

Melanie: So essentially, we’re saying that when people forget that, they’re really on a slippery slope to I suppose it doesn’t become a relationship. It becomes more of a warzone really.

Tom: Unfortunately, this is quite common.

Melanie: So the programs that you do around helping people out of this, what are the – OK. So we know that that’s behind it, you’ve just described the things that need to be present. But people get – people seem to – in spite of sort of knowing this, people seem to get really bent out of shape when they come into relationship with each other. And they will end up putting up with the very thing that is clear to them that it is making the thing worse, that’s shooting them in the forehead, OK?

I suppose what I’m saying is, people can become so involved in their dysfunctional relationships that they don’t really know. They don’t really know that they’re being dysfunctional. How do we go about drawing their attention to this?

Tom: That’s a great question. It’s certainly true that the vast majority of people are living their lives as the product of their conditioning. And of course, the most powerful conditioning we get is our family of origin. We grew up in a household where the parents are fighting or there are all kinds of resentments. There are all kinds of attempting for everybody to change everybody else. There are all kinds of manipulation and control and all kinds of different dysfunctional things.

And most people grew up in an environment like that and they think that like we’re saying really. They think that’s normal. And I would say, it’s common place but it’s certainly not normal. It’s absolutely subnormal. But it’s so common place and people because you grew up in a – you get this feeling of, “Well, that’s just how life is and you just have to live with that.”

And so, there is a tendency to have a kind of identification with things staying the same. We could call it a kind of resistance to change because at least it’s familiar. And the familiarity provides a kind of sense of stability


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and comfort in a strange sort of way even though it’s a miserable comfort. At least, it’s the same.

And so, what’s needed in situations like this is we need to have a kind of an interrupt. We need a method of being able to sort of break in to that status quo. And you actually have to rock the boat a little bit. And what you have to do is have a conversation with a person like this or with a group, whatever it is, and really say, “Let’s do a little self-assessment here.” And do a reality check on how good your relationship actually is and whether it’s really actually really satisfactory to you or not.

So, you have to kind of make the unconscious conscious. You have to get some recognition that the person is living, that they’re settling for a life that’s far less than they could be having. And they don’t know they could be having it different because it’s just unfamiliar.

So, you’re absolutely right. And in my field called the Human Software Engineering, we have something called an Enrollment Conversation. An Enrollment Conversation is exactly this. It’s talking about getting the person to recognize what’s not working and what it’s costing them to have it not work. And when they get what it’s costing them and therein starts to develop a little bit more of a sense of urgency that there’s a need to change things that they can actually have the life that they want.

So it’s a process of making the unconscious, deeply conditioned patterns that are so familiar, making conscious how incredibly limiting and even damaging that is to your life and how it’s really preventing you from having the life that you really want.

Melanie: Tell me about damaging to life. You put me in mind of an 82-year-old man who after 60 years of marriage killed his wife. She nagged him once too often.

Tom: Oops! I’m sorry to laugh but it was funny.

Melanie: And the thing is he got away with it because it was a crime of passion. So I suppose that’s a cause we need to be mindful of.


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Tom: He won’t get away from the karmic result of that for sure even if the judge ruled it off. This is the antithesis of resentment-free I can tell you.

Melanie: Go on, Beryl.

Beryl: I wanted to talk to you about the subject of jealousy because that’s another crime of passion. It can be jealousy. Can you just talk a little bit about why jealousy comes up in relationships, Tom particularly maybe at the early days when people are feeling a bit insecure about the relationship?

Tom: Yeah, it’s actually that insecurity that’s really at the bases of that jealousy reaction. Jealousy is a kind of reactive emotion. It happens because we have a certain expectation that our partner or boyfriend or girlfriend or whatever should be of certain way. And that they should give all their attention to us and not give it to anybody else. And we develop these expectations. The expectations are stories we’re making up in our mind of how we think it should be. This comes out of the sort of Cinderella syndrome. We got this notion of how we think that life should be and we expect it to be like that and we expect our partner to be like that.

Well, good luck. It’s very uncommon to have a prince charming who meets all your criteria especially if you haven’t become princess charming yourself in your own criteria. In fact in my book, I talk about that the way to get the ideal partner is to become that person yourself so that you have a congruence with that which you want to attract. So cleaning up your own inner life is really the foundation for being able to attract the kind of partner you want.

But back to the jealousy, the jealousy is a reaction to an unmet expectation. And that is, you expect the person to behave a certain way. And they are putting too much interest in somebody else or in some fashion and your reaction is to be upset that they’re not meeting your expectation. The interesting thing about this is that the upset and the jealousy are reactions that are created inside of you to a story about how thing should be that it doesn’t exist anywhere other than in your mind.

But the problem is that intellectually understanding that doesn’t stop you from doing it. You still do it because the reaction to the unmet expectation


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and the jealousy as an expression of that is a learned behavior. It’s a conditioned response. It’s not something that’s coming out of your knowing but it’s coming out of a reaction to a story that you’ve been making up.

So the way out is to extract you from the energy field of the upset over your expectation not getting met. And when you do that then the jealousy is gone.

Beryl: Because again, it’s conditioning, isn’t it? I can remember you talking about that. One of my close school friends and she used to read all those romantic novels that we called Mills & Boons. I don’t know if they still have them. But she spent her teenage years reading those avidly. I can see them all lined up on her window sill now. And when she got into relationships …

Tom: She was expecting that.

Beryl: Yes, exactly. She was expecting Clark Gable to come flying in. And it didn’t [indiscernible] [0:15:34] it just didn’t happen. And she spent, I can remember her saying, she went through a few relationships before she had to wake up to this whole romantic notion was just something she bought into and real relationships were never going to be like that.

Tom: Yeah. Everybody needs a little awakening, sometimes a rude awakening.

Beryl: So Tom, do we have to go through that process? Do we have to kind of learn by own experience? Is there a shortcut? I think I’ve got young men as sons, is there a way they don’t have to go through this broken heart syndrome?

Tom: What I’ve noticed happens a lot with people on relationships is that you tend to be attracted to people who have in them the same the issues, unresolved issues that you had with your parents. So in my book, I have a chapter called Stop Dating Your Parents. Because what happens is that people tend to be attracted to their unresolved emotional issues from childhood and so you attract someone who if you can fix them then you’ll finally get the love that you felt you didn’t get when you were a kid, right?


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And so, you meet somebody and you have this buzz of attraction and it turns out that that’s not love. It’s the excitement over the possibility of fixing him so you can finally get the love you didn’t get.

Beryl: How fascinating that really is.

Tom: And so, there is tendency for people to keep dating their parents. They keep dating people with the same unresolved issues hoping to be able to fix it so that they can get what they want. So the real issue that needs to be fixed is fixing the problem in you of feeling like you didn’t get the love that you want. And the moment you solve that problem, the moment you resolve the longing for that sense of being made complete by somebody else so you can really feel whole and complete within yourself, the moment you resolve that using the proper techniques, which we can do, then what happens is you’re not attracted to people like that anymore.

When you see people like that, “Oh, no thanks. I don’t need that.” Because you don’t need it anymore and what you thought needed before is not really what you needed, it was a longing for a sense of being made whole. And so, the real answer is to resolve the inner issues that caused you to feel not whole.

So if you can feel whole and complete then you’re really a potential great partner for somebody else. And that’s the kind of partner you want too is somebody who’s self-sufficient, whole, and complete. There’s no feeling of – you know what it’s like, Beryl. When you are in a relationship with a needy person, what it’s like? They’re taking your energy. It’s terrible. It feels like they’re draining.

Whenever somebody has that neediness, it’s like an insatiable black hole. There’s no amount of love, attention, anything that you could give them that would every satisfy that. And that’s why it goes on and on and on and continues to be miserable. What you were talking about, Mel, exactly that. And so, the need is the resolution of the problem at its origin which is inside of you.

Melanie: And the interesting thing – sorry Beryl. I was going to say – hold on that thought, the interesting thing is the resolution can be so quaint because this isn’t about therapy or about analyzing or manipulating or fixing


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anything. And my memories that the first time I met Tom, I can’t even remember what the problem was but I do remember it took all of seven minutes. And it was the catalyst to me coming out of my relationship.

Tom: Yeah.

Melanie: I just suddenly didn’t need it anymore.

Tom: You needed to. Yeah. Absolutely.

Melanie: Sorry Beryl. Go on. Continue.

Beryl: Well, it does explain why you see other people because we each do it but if you see in other people clearer than you can see in yourself. And you say, “Why did I always go for that kind of person?”

Tom: Exactly that. Yeah, that explains that point.

Beryl: So they’re just going from pillar to post still looking to fix that thing.

Tom: Yeah. In a way, what they’re looking for is opportunities for their own development. And it is an opportunity. It is an opportunity for them. But most people don’t have the skill or the knowledge of how to take advantage of that opportunity and actually get the growth out of it. Much better is to go through a very conscious process of resolving the kind of drivers of these behaviors or this kind of decisions to get into relationships like that. Resolve that inside yourself and then you have no attraction to that kind of thing anymore because it was all fallacious to begin with.

Melanie: You’re saying is reminding me of another grim tale, Tom. So I suppose – it’s a solicitor and I’m thinking, “Oh, so he’s acting out what you’re saying.” It was a solicitor who couldn’t bear the loss of a third divorce because it meant sort of having to split the soils again so he killed his wife. So he’d been acting all this up from what you’re saying until he got to the point where I suppose he couldn’t see any way of – it interfered with whatever he was attached to. He’s obviously looking for completion in these – because this was in the space of five years that he had three divorces so he was clearly looking for completion in these people.


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Tom: Yeah.

Melanie: And of course, it starts to interfere with what he’s attached to so he kills them – killed the third one anyway.

Tom: This actually brings out the very important point. As you well know, I’ve launched a global campaign for emotional competence. And the reason that I’ve done that is that I found that these techniques that we teach in Human Software Engineering, my field, these Pure Awareness Techniques are so incredibly effective as you both experienced in resolving these kind of what we call not useful emotions like jealousy and resentment and rejection and heart break and longing to be complete and all these kinds of things.

Resolves them so thoroughly that they – the person just is not operating as a victim of their emotions and it’s really clear from examples like the one that you just gave, that the problems of our society not to mention everybody’s personal life, but the problems of our society like crime, addiction, relationship problems, work problems, productivity problems, all these problems that we have in our society are grounded in people’s inability to resolve their not useful emotions. They’re grounded in people’s emotional incompetence.

So the biggest disease on our planet at the moment is emotional incompetence. And it’s at the root of all the problems in relationships, every single one of them. And so, to be able to resolve one’s own inner emotional problems, to clean up on someone’s inner emotional landscape is really the most important fundamental thing that one can do not only for one’s relationships but for one’s contribution to being someone contributing a peaceful integrated person into the world.

So, this is why I’m teaching seminars all over the place, training teachers to teach Emotional Mastery seminars, Free to Succeed seminars, these are all seminars in teaching people these fundamental techniques to gain emotional competence so that they can actually utilize this technology to not only enrich their relationship but their work life, their professional life, every aspect, financial life, every aspect of life.


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Beryl: It’s interesting you – well, it’s always interesting what you say, Tom. But when I’m listening to you, I realized that we all have some stuckness and it might be weight loss, it might be relationships, business, we all have some stuckness. Most of us have some stuckness. And what you’re really saying is clear that stuckness and you will have – it will have a ripple effect through the rest of your life. You don’t need to then go through – I mean we talked about in Wired for Success mastering the seven areas of life. But in truth, you master the area that’s your most stuck area and it changes your relationship with all those other things.

Tom: Sure. You’ve had the experience I’m sure many times that you changed something about yourself and your whole world changes.

Beryl: Yeah.

Tom: I mean other people show up differently because you changed yourself.

Beryl: And that actually makes me think, this is just kind of flying off the top of my head right now, about being in love, let’s say, that kind of romantic being in love. And when we’re in that in love stage which doesn’t last long but we feel that we can conquer the world, don’t we? We feel like anything is possible. And everyone says, “God, you look so fantastic.”

And what I’m hearing from you was actually once we learn to be in love with ourselves and I know to some, that might sound a bit narcissistic but you know what I’m saying, to actually accept and be in a great relationship with ourselves then we can have that kind of being in love with life and with everything, can’t we? It doesn’t have to depend on another person the way they behave and it’s going to die – we can have this on an ongoing basis.

Tom: Wouldn’t you like to have a partner who is like that?

Beryl: Now, you’re talking.

Tom: You know the way to attract one is become that person because then you’ll have a resonance with the same kind of person showing up. So all you have to do is cleanup your own inner emotional landscape, gain a sense of self-sufficiency, independence, self-love. There’s only one kind of


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love. It’s called unconditional. Everything else that has a condition isn’t love. It’s a need. It has nothing to do with love actually.

Love is something that is only unconditional and truly unconditional. I mean you can love someone and not be with them or you can love someone and be with them. Being with them is not the issue. The love is either unconditional or it’s not. And if it’s not, it’s not love even. It’s need.

So, one of the central, what we call Core Dynamics in Human Software Engineering model, we have a model called the Core Dynamics of Human Conditioning, and one of them is mistaking need for love which most people do. Most people have no clue what love actually is. They know what infatuation is which is what you’re talking about, that early stage of a relationship.

But the reason it degrades is because that can’t sustain itself on a background of the clutter of all your inner emotional garbage. If you have that emotional baggage inside and you don’t clean it up, you’re going to default to your condition reactions that are based on that. You’re going to develop resentments, jealousies. If you really got it bad, like this attorney, you’re going to kill somebody.

This is what we need to stop. We need to stop it. And it’s so simple. These problems are due to emotional incompetence. And we now have a technology for being able to change that.

Beryl: But you see – and I agree with you. But relationships can be like addictions. And OK, so let’s talk about lust. Lust can be an addiction. And it’s difficult sometimes to differentiate between lust and love and you only know what it is when the lust kind of disappears. So it’s really – that’s kind of an addiction, isn’t it? And it’s a physical addiction because certain hormones of course, are pumping out. Can you talk about that?

Tom: Absolutely. The thing about addiction is that all addictions are forms of attempting to self-medicate. And what you’re self-medicating against is some old unresolved emotional pain. And so, you do something in order for it not have to be present. One of the Core Dynamics is called Avoiding the Present. And whenever that one is the issue, it means there are some deep old emotional pain that you don’t want to feel so you do something to


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distract yourself so you don’t have to feel it whether you’re absorbed in stories about the past or future, some anxiety or some euphoric recall or whatever it is or whether it’s a substance addiction or whether it’s sex addiction or lust addiction or relationship addiction.

I mean there are so many addictions, I mean unless you’re thoroughly enlightened, you’re addicted. And everybody has their addictions because everybody has a database of all painful emotional experiences from avoiding dealing with them all their life. And the reason people avoid dealing with them is they have this deep conditioning to resist feeling things fully because when we’re little, we all get emotionally overwhelmed. Nobody likes it. And so, we become feeling avoidant. It’s a human – deeply human conditioned thing that we all have.

Now, most people think this is innately human. It’s not innately human. It’s deeply conditioned. And that’s a really important distinction because we can resolve that and allow ourselves to actually be able to feel fully. And when you learn the Pure Awareness Techniques, when you learn how to resolve these deep, intense emotional traumatic experiences, you can resolve them like you resolved one on our first call, that whole thing you had with your eye. You had some trauma in there. And then five, ten minutes it was gone. And now it’s gone, right?

Beryl: Yeah, it hasn’t come back.

Tom: It’s gone and it doesn’t come back which is incredible. So, if you have some deep emotional pain and you’re using any behavior or substance to avoid feeling it, to avoid being present. You see, if you don’t use the substance and you’re present then the unresolved pain is going to push its way to the surface and demand to be felt and completed because the body wants to be free of it. The body is going to try and push it out just like if you get a splinter in your finger, the body pushes it out. And when you have deep emotional pain, it’s the same thing. The body wants to push it out but we keep suppressing it because of our conditioning.

So when we learn how to do the opposite of what you’re deeply conditioned to do and you learn how to resolve those deep traumas and emotional pains, the foundation of addiction goes away and you don’t have to do that addictive behavior to avoid the pain because the pain is gone. Wow!


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Beryl: OK. So this is reminding me of something that just a few days ago, the three of us did a healing session as you recall. And you helped me clear some stuff about running stories in my head because I’ve always been extremely good at that. I’ve had more stories than Grimm’s Fairy Tales I have. And I would run these stories about how life could be and they were escapism for me. And it’s something I learned very early on.

Tom: Yeah, it’s a form of addiction actually.

Beryl: Indeed. And I spent that night, after you did that, awake most of the night looking for these stories, looking for my storybook. And it was weird because I couldn’t find them. It didn’t feel like I needed them either but – and there was a very benevolent voice in my head saying, “Why are you doing that? You don’t need to see that.”

Now interesting, what just I’ve realized is there was one story that I used to run that because of the nature of the story, I felt I needed to be physically bigger than I used to be. OK? I won’t bore you with the detail of why or they juiciness of why but I felt I needed to be physically bigger. And after you did that session with me, I tried to run that story and it wouldn’t run. It just wouldn’t run. And what’s happened since in these few days is I’ve lost four pounds.

And I’ve only just realized that in you talking but – so here we are with this kind – and people think weight loss is just about going to the gym and eating. Of course, it is. But there can be this emotional – and it was a very strong story for me. No doubt about it. It was very strong story. And I realized it doesn’t run anymore.

Tom: There are all kinds of incredibly positive side effects to cleaning up your inner emotional landscape. There’s no question about that. It’s one of the most worthwhile things you can do in your whole life.

Beryl: Profound.

Melanie: So, this makes me think, Tom, and perhaps for the listening audience, you can sort of expand on this a bit because it’s not uncommon for people to start clearing up issues around relationships and then


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suddenly realized that all the money struggles that they’ve been having vanished with this as well, clearing that up. Do you want to comment on that?

Tom: Well, pretty much any marketing you look at anywhere, the two issues that people bring up are sex and money. And this is because these two areas are so central to everybody’s life that the conditioning that we have especially from our families of origin but just from everything, from TV, from just living in the world, we’re inundated with conditioning regarding these two areas of our life.

And so, in many cases there’s a lot of overlap in those two areas. When you clean up something in one area, just as this weight issue that Beryl just mentioned, the weight was dropping away as in just an unknown side effect of cleaning up something else. And so, this is one of the great things about Human Software Engineering is when you run the human antivirus software, it stops corrupting all kinds of files.

Melanie: Yeah.

Tom: It’s nice because there are all kinds of perks and bonuses to cleaning up one issue. You get residual effects in other areas that are all positive. So yeah, it’s definitely worthwhile to learn how to do this. To stay in clueless emotional incompetence, we want this to become not an option in the world anymore.

Melanie: So this process is so clean. It’s so simple, Tom that even other fellow colleagues who do sort of work to facilitate other people rather than having a look and exploring it, they tend to get suspicious and think about it as [indiscernible] [0:34:47]. Why is it you think people get so frightened of something that’s a) so simple and b) is so capable of freeing you?

Tom: Well, it’s a threat to the status quo that they have. People become very much identified with what they are familiar with like we’re talking before. And when someone has a way of working and it kind of works and it’s not giving them a livelihood and all that, it’s very easy for them to become quite identified with that. It becomes part of their self-definition.


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And so, one of the other Core Dynamics is called Excluding Other Perspectives, and this is where prejudice and bigotry and 9/11 and religious wars and stuff like that live. And this is where people are so identified with a particular way of seeing the world that they can’t be opened to anything else because it would disrupt their sense of self so much to do that that it’s just too terrifying to do that.

I mean imagine somebody living in an Islamic country and deciding to become a Born Again Christian. I mean you’d be in real trouble. It’s not going to work. So when identification with a particular way of being is really, really strong, that produces one of the most uncoachable situations because that person is not going to come for getting some change in their life. They don’t want change in their life. This is the epitome of resistance to change is total identification with the way you see things.

So for a lot of people in the therapeutic community, they’ve learned to work in a certain way and when they work in that way, they feel comfortable with that. That’s what they’ve learned. And to have the notion that there could be something that would be infinitely better that would give them far better results in a much shorter time, the only people that are going to be open to that are the ones who are feeling a sense of lack in the efficacy of what they’re doing and actually want something new.

But the people who are too identified with the way things are and they don’t want to rock the boat, they’re going to resist change and they’ll have that kind of resistance that you talked about. So that’s the mechanism underneath of why that happens. It’s kind of fascinating to explore.

This model of the Core Dynamics of Human Conditioning is really quite extraordinary. I’ve developed it over many, many years by making an inquiry as to, is there something deeper? Is there something more fundamental to the cause of some of these problems? I had this dedication to getting to the real most fundamental underlying cause of what keeps people in their problems.

And I was extremely fortunate to have these whole series of insights about the nature of our conditioning, mainly our preverbal conditioning. And these insights shed incredible light on why people operate inside these clueless conditioned ways of being completely not getting it that they’re living a life


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of incredible limitation. But just living inside of that and that’s where they are.

So conditioning is not good or bad. Conditioning is just how we learn to do things without having to think about them. When we first try and tie our shoes, we can’t do it. And when we get to we can do it, then we can – at first, we have to really think about it. When we keep doing and doing and doing and practicing and practicing and pretty soon in time you just have the intention to tie your shoes and it just gets tied and we don’t even notice.

So like that, any conditioned way of being that we have as a human being whether it’s playing the piano, riding a bike, avoiding your emotional pain, looking for a sense of completion from somebody else, these are all deeply conditioned ways of being . And we don’t think about them. We just operate inside of them being incredibly limited by them.

So conditioning in itself is not good or bad. But when we’re conditioned in ways of being that don’t service, we want to become conscious of them again and we want to be able to do something about them so we don’t have to live inside the severe limitations that are keeping us really from having the life we truly want.

Beryl: What I want to say is – sorry Melanie.

Melanie: No, carry on, carry on.

Beryl: I don’t know how you go on living your life as you do, Tom. I say that because it must be – you must meet people all the time where you see the patterns that they’re playing out and how do you stop – I mean it must be hugely frustrating for you to know that they could clear their stuff so easily if they just recognized that.

Tom: Well actually, I debug myself for frustrations so it doesn’t bother me.

Beryl: I say that because having done some work with you now and felt the changes, I have seemed to be very highly tuned now to, and maybe they’re just showing up to show me this, around people who have bought into their stories so rigidly. And it’s happening everywhere. It’s very prevalent in


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things like the scientific community. They can’t take on new beliefs because it threatens their identity.

Tom: Exactly.

Beryl: And everything that they bought into. If they buy into a new idea, who are they? They’ve written a book on the subject. They gave lectures on the subject. They’re a speaker. Who are they if they’re no longer that person?

Tom: Exactly.

Beryl: If they let go of that. And this is endemic in society, isn’t it?

Tom: Well, to answer your earlier question, the reason that it’s not frustrating to me to do this work actually, it’s energizing and wonderful and gratifying is because I do see people’s problems without question. When you learn the Core Dynamics model and you clean up your own stuff, you see all of that. But you also get to the point rather quickly actually where you see past that into the essence of the person. And you experience the wholeness that’s truly there and you can see that all these other things are just little sort of blotches on the surface. And when you have the technology to clean them up, you just say to them, “Hey, come on. You’re more than who you think you are. Come on. Let’s clean this stuff up so you can live the reality of what you truly are. Come on.”

And then you do that. And so, it’s actually incredibly fulfilling because you helped the person see what you can see which is beyond their limitations to their wholeness. There are wholeness’s infinite potential, infinite potential. But it’s blocked by all these not useful emotions. And now, we have the technology to resolve them very quickly, very thoroughly, very permanently. And that’s incredible. I mean this is not a trivial development. This is a major advancement for the fields of personal development, professional development, spiritual development for that matter.

Beryl: Yeah.

Tom: These techniques are not superficial. This is a major breakthrough.


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Beryl: And when you mentioned spiritual there, spirituality is becoming a hot topic. And people I think get confused about what spirituality is. But it’s exactly what you’re talking about. It’s becoming your amazingness, your greatness. And this is relatively new to me to have this kind of feelings and it does feel incredible.

But as you say, people have never had even a tiny little bit of that, they’ve never had that kind of tiny bit of connection with themselves or they’ve tried so many other things to get there which I did. You can start to think, “Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I’ve tried so many things. I don’t want to buy into this.” Because there is this – that you’re afraid of wanting it. You’re afraid of wanting it and being disappointed and being – just going back into your space or not being able to fix that bit that other people say, “Well, you’re doing it to yourself.” People are being ill. Well, you’ve created that. There’s something that made you create it which is very unfair on people I feel.

Tom: I use the term spiritual development very cautiously because the moment you use this word, you get a thousand different interpretations of what that means. But to address the issue that you’re talking about which is to trying things that don’t work. One of the unfortunate things in the spiritual development world is that there are great many techniques that are created by people who read something in the spiritual literature and misinterpret it and then build a whole process of attempting to use that misinterpretation as a means of gaining a spiritual experience.

For example, in many of the spiritual traditions, there are statements like innovative tradition which I’m familiar with, there was a statement in some of the literature that says, in the state of enlightenment or in the state of Samadhi or in the state of pure awareness, there are no desires. And it’s true that when you’re in the experience of pure awareness, there’s nothing there. It’s just pure awareness. There was no desire.

So it’s just a description of the state. But somebody who is not very enlightened, reading that says, “Oh, I have to get rid of desires then I’ll be in the state of enlightenment.” And what they’re doing is they’re mistaking a description of the ends as a means. And so, all kinds of us, theory practices and renunciation and all kinds of stuff is being done by people who have no business doing that in the thought, in the attempt that this is going to bring about some kind of an enlightenment only to have a life of unfulfilling – not


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fulfilling their physical desires and not actually having it produced the enlightenment that they were looking for.

And this is because they’re mistaking the ends for the means. And there are many, many, many techniques that are based on these kinds of misinterpretations. So people learn these things and they try them and they try them and they don’t work. And the reason they don’t work is they’re based on a mistaken notion about how the whole thing actually works.

Beryl: And that screws your relationship with everything.

Tom: It does, it does. Absolutely. Yeah. And you just live in a kind of frustration. So people who discover how to really do this correctly and properly, they are very fortunate actually.

Beryl: OK. So now, I’m thinking about relationships with business, we’re in times of economic difficulty and many people are struggling with their businesses. Is there stuff that we could clear in ourselves that would help us in terms of business whatever the outside world is telling us about economic conditions?

Tom: I was going to jokingly say, no, it’s helpless. But just that we can laugh about that makes it really clear that it’s not. I mean obviously, when we have problems that appear to be in our environment, these are really just a manifestation of problems that are occurring inside of us. I mean you’ve heard me say a great many times and if you hang around me, you will hear it hundreds of times that in every situation, there are always two fundamental things. There is the circumstances and there is our reaction to the circumstances.

Many times, we can’t do anything about the circumstances, sometimes we can. But we certainly can’t do anything about the circumstances if we’re all wrapped in some emotionally reactive pattern about it. If we’re in anxiety or depression or upset or frustration or anger, we’re not present to be able to deal with whatever there is that needs to be dealt with.

I mean if you’re in an economic crisis situation which we’ve all been through in these last years, you have to retool. You have to come up with some new creative way of meeting people’s new needs and desires that


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weren’t there before. And when you do that adequately, then those are the people who thrive even in economically challenging times. But you can’t even think like that if you’re lost to your conditioned reactions.

So, the people who stay stuck in the depression or the anxiety or whatever from it not working don’t have the presence to be able to respond to the new needs of the moment. So again, the need is for emotional competence, upgrading emotional competence. Resolve the reactive emotions, resolve the old painful traumatic experiences from your house being taken or whatever happened and get over that.

Now, you can’t get over it just by deciding to get over it. When I say get over it, you need to get the resolution of the energy of these experiential residual things that are held in the body. If you don’t deal with the energy, you can deal with it actually all day long and you’ll be in therapy for 20 years and not get a result.

Beryl: So just talk a bit about the energy there because what I experienced when I do this work with you and now of course, I can do it on myself which is another great thing about what you teach, it’s empowering because I don’t have to go running off and picking the phone up to other people, I can just do it myself, what I feel physically is a lightness going through my body. Is there any way I can really describe it? It just feels like a ripple of nice feeling.

Tom: Yeah. This is very common. Everyone feels a certain sense of lightness when they let go of these heavy emotional energies for sure. You see, you can’t let go of them with the intellect. The thing about emotions is they have two things. They have content and they have energy. And we’re all familiar with people who have tried to resolve their emotional issues at a certain level of content and it doesn’t look very well.

What we want to do is we want to resolve the emotional issues at the heart of the matter. And the heart of the matter is the energy that gives the emotion life. And what you’ve experienced and what we’ve just talking about is that when the energy is gone, the whole thing flattens out and you could care less about the content. You don’t care about the content when the energy is gone. It goes into history books. We can forget about it. And you can live your life. I mean we don’t want to spend our life processing our


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stuff. We want something that’s efficient. It gets the job done so we can enjoy being here and having a life.

By the way, I wanted to mention, because one of the reasons we’ve decided to have this particular interview is I do have an introductory webinar on this topic of relationships coming up. It’s going to be on February 19th which is coming up pretty quick here and it’s a webinar on resolving the fear and pain of rejection in dating and relationships. And it’s right after Valentine’s Day. So it’s a great Valentine gift to give to your sweetheart.

Beryl: Or yourself.

Tom: Or yourself, totally yourself. A loving thing to do for yourself. And I have a little – I have a short little video, two and a half minute video about it that I will get you the link for and you can put it up with this interview and people can click on that. And take a look at the video and sign up for the webinar. It’s only 20 bucks. You get to get rid of your old pain and fear of rejection and relationships and free up that part of it. And so, this is a low cost, wonderful introduction for people to this work. And I invite everyone to join me for that webinar coming up on the 19th.

Beryl: It’s interesting that, isn’t it? Because as I’m listening you talked about rejection, I know people or the one person in particular who hasn’t had a relationship for over 20 years because of too painful ones.

Tom: Yup.

Beryl: And this person just kind of, “OK. Let’s shut up shop. Let’s not do that again.”

Tom: That’s it. This is the perfect candidate for this webinar.

Beryl: It’s interesting, house animals, OK, because animals don’t reject you in the way that people do.

Tom: Yup.

Beryl: They just love you unconditionally.


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Tom: Yup.

Beryl: And I think of – what people can miss out on.

Tom: Yeah. Actually, when you get stuck in the place of fearing that you will push up against that old painful rejection energy that’s still inside of you then you don’t want to go try it again because you’re afraid it’s going to happen again. You’re afraid of two things. One is you’re afraid of touching that old unresolved emotional pain that you’ve done a good job of suppressing. And you’re also afraid of adding to the pile by having another rejection experience.

And so, the solution to this is to resolve the energy of the old emotional pain from the rejection and also to resolve the energy of the projection of the possibility of it happening again. That’s exactly what we’re going to do in this webinar.

Beryl: Yeah, that’s a good one because you can feel that, yeah, well what if the whole thing happens again? And then there’s a kind of self-fulfilling prophecy in that you’re kind of looking for signs that, “OK, the cracks are going to show. I knew this would happen.” And you bring it into your life, didn’t you?

Tom: Yeah.

Beryl: OK.

Tom: You’re going to keep attracting that until you resolve within yourself because the reason you’re attracting it is your higher self, if you will, knows you need to heal this. And so, you will resonate with that attracting that into your life to get access to it to heal it. But most people don’t know how to heal it. And so, it’s so precious and valuable to learn how to heal that so you can overcome it and resolve it and not be the victim of that anymore.

Beryl: That’s going to be a good one.

Tom: I’m looking forward to it. It should be a lot of fun.


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Melanie: But I think it’s also worth saying that not only – well obviously, when people go on this webinar, they are absolutely going to be blown away. But I think it’s worth also mentioning at this point, if they want to experience a whole two days of Tom, that in an upcoming event in April, we’re going to see Tom in action throughout a whole two days.

Tom: It will also be in London.

Melanie: Yeah. And we’ll post more information about that.

Beryl: Yeah, the 27th and 28th of April, Tom will be with us the whole weekend and there will be opportunity to have a little bit of one to one time with you for some people if we can organize that. I’m sure we can organize that to really clear their stuff. And I highly recommend that, I have to say.

OK. Well, I think probably we have to let you go, Tom. And …

Melanie: We’ll definitely get you back on another time on other topics.

Beryl: Exactly. Go on. Sorry.

Melanie: I was going to say, what would really be useful is for people to put their comments and indicate what other topics they want.

Beryl: That’s what I’m going to say.

Tom: Good idea because we get some feedback from your listeners of what they’d like us to address. We can give them some insight to help start to make what’s unconscious about that problem conscious and that’s the beginning of the process because once it becomes conscious now, we can begin to deal with it. When we’re stuck in the unconsciousness of it and just doing it, doing it, doing it without even realizing we’re doing it, the kneejerk conditioned response reaction, then we don’t know that we don’t know.

When people know what they’re suffering from, they know that they’re struggling whether it’s in relationships or whether it’s finances or whether it’s health or whatever it is so yeah, it would be great to get some comments from people. And I’d be delighted to come back and address the key salient points. That would be great.


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Melanie: So bearing in mind that people get used to being stuck in their problem and they live with it in silence, can you sort of just give us – stimulate their imagination with some of the things that you do address and it might just fire up their imagination about things they’ve just put up with and thought, “Oh well, that’s how life is.” Some workshops.

Tom: I think everybody has in their lives things that they’ve tried to solve, problems that they’ve tried to solve that just don’t seem to be solvable. Like they’ve tried all kinds of different techniques or modalities or practitioners or whatever to solve them and the cool thing about Human Software Engineering is that we specialize in solving the unsolvable.

And the reason we can do that is because we have a whole new tool set, a whole set of tools and resources and ways of getting access to the true underlying bases of the issue, that Core Dynamics model I was mentioning. And then we have these incredible techniques called the Pure Awareness Techniques that actually resolve the essence of the energy that gives life to the problem. And when you resolve it that way, the whole problem becomes like a non issue. It’s like what you experienced, Beryl. It’s like it just can’t access it anymore. It’s just gone.

And so, this is a new technology of consciousness. It’s a new technology for resolving the unconscious inner barriers that people have. It’s worth learning all about it. It’s worth actually becoming really good at it. And I really want to extend the invitation to people who do learn it to become a teacher of it. I mean we need thousands of teachers to train people on upgrading their emotional competence. This is the global campaign for emotional competence. Whoa!

It moves me to say that actually. We have an opportunity to make some incredible changes in the world with this technology. So if this turns you on, if you resonate with that, get involve.

Melanie: Excellent.

Beryl: So Tom, we will put links under here to – under this interview to let people know how to get in touch with you. But please, just tell us what your website is right now.


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Tom: The website that we’re just building, new one, is called EvolveExpress.com. And it’s still under construction but there’s a lot of information there. I also have a website called HumanSoftwareEngineering.com. And there is an article on what is Human Software Engineering and it goes into great detail on all these different things, the Core Dynamics model, the levels of life, the nature of emotions, the Pure Awareness Techniques, the WaveMaker technology, which we haven’t even talked about. We have all kinds of ways of debugging and upgrading in our human software and there’s a lot of information there.

I also have a blog at InnerHumanSoftware.com. So those are three key sites. We have others but those are good ones.

Beryl: And of course, we have episode 38, which is our first episode with you so people can go back and get more of you there.

Tom: That was a fun interview.

Beryl: Yeah, it was great.

Melanie: Before we wrap up Beryl, I think it would be great if one of the – we have another interview sometime in the future with Tom where we’re going to talk about WaveMaker because that’s an amazing piece of equipment that there are others similar to it but they don’t – it’s the way it’s used and it’s an amazing eye-opener.

Tom: I’d be delighted to do an interview with you about that. It is a wonderful technology. I got involved with it because I used to have terrible hay fever analogies and with an earlier version of the technology, the older version, I had a handful of sessions and it just wiped them out. They were completely gone. And I tried everything. I tried acupuncture, [indiscernible] [0:59:12], NEAT, blah, blah, blah, conventional allergy therapy, nothing have ever worked for me. And this just wiped them out.

So I got so interested. I came to Europe for the first times back in ’97, negotiated the distribution rights for the leading device at the time and got to come over to Europe and study with the leading people for several years. It’s a fascinating area, the area of how to change these subtle


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electromagnetic fields that mess up our functioning. It’s another form of debugging our inner human software.

Yeah, I would love to talk about that.

Melanie: Yeah.

Beryl: We have a long list of things for you to address, Tom. That’s for sure. All right.

Tom: I like your idea Mel of maybe we do a monthly column or something.

Beryl: Yeah, yeah, because the other thing that we haven’t touched on right now is the ADHD, the ADD issue that I know you have a great – and I’m going to put my son in front of you when you get to London.

Tom: Absolutely.

Beryl: Sort him out on that one. So he sits down for more than five minutes. OK. So thank you everyone for tuning in to today’s episode of Wired for Success TV. We just like to mention before we wrap up, if you are watching this on our site then please comment in the box below because Tom has already said, he would love to come along and address your issues and again, ideas for new topics for Tom. There’s so much we could work with.

If you’re watching us on YouTube then right above our head here, there’s a button. If you hit it, you subscribe and you get loads of more great information from us. If you’re on iTunes listening to our podcast then please subscribe to our podcast and feel free to write a review there.

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Lastly, wherever you’re listening to this episode from, if you haven’t done so already, please just shoot over to our main site http://www.wiredforsuccess.tv and join our newsletter for updates and content by adding your name and email.

If you head over there, there will be a transcript of this episode too. We reply to all comments and suggestions and we would love to hear from you. So thank you for tuning in. Remember to tune in for the next episode of Wired for Success where we help you to master the seven areas of life.

So from me Beryl and my co-host Melanie and from our interviewee Tom, we bid you farewell and next time. So, if you would like to say good-bye.

Copyright: © Wired For Success TV 2013

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love getting to the heart of it with tom stone [episode 43] wired for success tv

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