'212

1 it. If l as~ .him ~specific qUestion, I am bound to , -~ 2.

miss sornethi%l9 '" ~ ::

'.

{ ' \ -~ ,._:?-

3

4

5

6

-;

s .

9

10

Z1R._ ~NDREHS: Tbere is a speci_fic alJe

e 213 1 Q ~lhat did .he .tell you?'

. 2 -~ A He said ~es, it .had been ~eady fo~ 14 days.

3 Q D~ you }mo'l.-7 more precisely w}:len it- was _you called

4 him, whether it was rnid...;Novernber, the _first of Novernbe~? '

5 !)._ No. I can't remember the speci_fic date.

6 Q Did _you follo'l.-t it up or did he .follow it- up with -

7 any ki_nd of Telex or anytbing in '1.-lritil)g? - 8 A No. ije just conf.irmed it \-las r:eady for: sbiprnel)t.

9 Q Hith orespect to thi_s transaction, was there anytbin

10 that- was supposed to be

',,

(.;;;:

..

214

1 A No.

2 Q To the best of your knowledge, ~he good~ ~er to be -~ del_ivered to the Country of M~ur.itani.a. Is that correct?

'

'4 Yes.

5 Q 'I'he payment that was to ta'k~ place was to take

.6 place ultimately w})en you agreed to it, was to take place . .

7 by :presentation to a bank account: in New York, as opposed to ' 8 any ba_n'k account in the State of Flori.da. _Is that correct?

9 . A Eventually. I was instructed to pay th.ose

10 'monies to t_he I_rving 'I'rust in New )."or}).

11 Q 'I'o your knowledge, with respect to tbis t_ransaction,

12 was there ever any requi_rement for payrne_nt in the State of_

13

14

15

16

17

18

19

20

21

22

2~

24

25

Florida?

I

Q Other than tbe di_scu_ssions to wbich you have

te.sti_fied earlier i_n July that 'took _place i_n Miami, did

you eve_r again meet wi~h anybody _in tb~ sta_,te of .florida in any way _r-elating to this transaction "'"other than,

of course, depositions or legc-~1 matter_s relating to th~. case _itself'?

;.. co'rnmunication_s were telephonic- \>lith Hiami_.

Q After tb_is conversation with 1-lr. Soghan_a lian, 'to

which you have already testi_fied, in No\rember of 1_977,

what did you do?

A Waited for Mr. Soghanalians indicati9ns that he

OAI.C C:CNORON

t -.::.=;. \ -

'.

~ - U:; .

( --

..

215.

1 was read-~ to proceed to Banque_ Bruxelles Lambert.

2 Q Did you receive_ any documents relating to tbe

3 tr~nsaction subse~uent to tha~ tele~hone conve~sation?

4 A Yes.

5 Q Hbat documents did you xeceive?

Documents specif_ied i _n the letter of credi~. -.

Q How did yo~ receive tbose?

8 A From Hr. Reynold t-a_l_l _iams.

9 Q How did he deliver t _bern to you?

10 b By band.

11 Q Hben?

12

13 Q So tbe next l':'leet_i _ng you had ,.;it.h an_:Jol).e_ relat_ing

14

15 sat.io:) ,.dth Hr. Sogha:)al_ia_n?

16 ;_-. ~ ~s .-

17 Q_ t1as anyol) e else _p:-_esent at tba t neeti:ng , 'd th t:r.

18 t:Vi_llia_ms?

19 A Ye_s.

2_0 Q ~bo was . th~t?

21 A 1Ir. Burr, l_:r. Big-aigl).on--Karl .Biga_ignon.

22_ Q -Al}yone. else'? A Not- that- l recall.

23

2_4 Q Do you kno~.,. about wben tbat meet_ing \'ias?

A lliddle of ::ovember._ 25

' 0.0.\.( G(NORON

216 -

1 Q Ho't-7 did %-ir. Burr get involved il:l t _he_ t _ransaction

t 2_

-

at that point?

.3 A I _ asked him to come a_long.

4 Q Has t _b_at bis first involvement? ..

5 A ~s l recall, yes.

6 Q ~bat took ~lace at that meet1ng? -, A' Documents were presented to tbe bal)k.

8 Q To. w}).om were tbe_y presented at the_ ban_k?

9 -11._ Documentary credit section.

10 Q Has it the sane _i .ndividual, 1-1~. Graf, a~out.\-;l_l_om . you

11 te_st_i_f_ied earl_ier?

12_ ~ l d_ol)'t recall.

13 Q 0bat bappened when tbe d_ocumant~ ~re pr~sent~d? .....

.14

15' tole t _bat tbere l)._ad to be a_mei)d_ment_s.

16 Q t'ihat r:1atters did t _he bant. request to be a_mel'}ded?

17 A :r don't reca_l_l.

18 Q ~~ho bal'ldled t _bs matt_ers relating. to the ar.\endl.':\el)ts-?

19

201 I don-'t kno\1 .w~_o handled the_rn.

21 .

Q \~bat pbysical.ly took_ _place at t _hat point?

22 '

23 !:!r . t:i_l _l iams ,.,.ent to Li_sbon.

( .... 24 ~

Q ~h~n where did ha go?

A Back to -A~etica. 25

..

21'7

1 Q How long a period transpired before the amendments

~ 2 \ took place?

3 A A matter of days.

4 Q Can you say how many days? Are you talking about

5 a week or one day?

6 A 'I'wo days.

7 Q So he flew all the way back to the United States

8 and then back again? ls that right?

9 A tes. '

10 Q Then what happened with regard to yourselfand

1 1 the transaction? Did you meet with Ur. t\ill iams bacl: in

12

~ .... 13 ;.. Y.es.

,14 Q Has anyone else present at that mee~ing? ,

15 A Yes I ur. ,Burr I !:r. !3iga igno::-..-l~ar~ :Sigaignon.

16 Q Nhat had !lr. !3urr eone relating to t .he :":\attar,

17 other than accor:ipanying you on these t:t-:o visits wi.th :!r.

18 iHlliams?

19 A Nothing.

20 Q He just ~ind of obsarved? A Yes.

21

22 Q i'lhat bappened at that second ~eeting witl: the bank?

A They acce?ted t~a documents in payment. 23

Q At this point, had _you already agreed \-lith :~r . . ( 24

218

1 co~panies--

2 A No.

3 Q --to cash?

4 A No. The letter of credit had to be paid.to-the

5. Banque Bruxelles Lambert, presentation of the documents.

6 Q When was it that you had dicussions with Mr. 7 Soghanalian that he, in fact, wanted to be paid in cash at

8 his bank, the Irving Trust?

9 A It wa~n't possible to pay M~. Soghanalian in cash,

10 initially.

11 Q When did i; become possible?

12 b !!r . Soghanalian bad the letter of credit and bad

... 13 bad it since the 21st o: Septe~ber~of ehe Banco bgricultura

.14 He \:as the only person ~~ho could release . . . -:.nat:..

15 0 What was the bank you just refe~red to?

16 A Banco .hgricul'Cura.

17 Q i:!'1.ic~ is "tolher e?

l8 A Lisbon.

19 Q Did he release that letter.? .

20 11. Only on the conditions that the money was

21 transfer~ed to ~is bank account.

22 Q Rhen did that discussion take place relating to

23 releasing it on conditions?

( 24 ... i.;:~

25

A Mr. Reynold 0illiarns instructed me.

Q Did he have a~ythin9 in writing to support that

.. DALE GENDRON

219 -

1 request?

( 2 ... ;... Power of "attorney. 3 Q Do you know on what date it- was that conversation

4 took place?

5 ;... I ca11' t_ recall.

6 Q Can you tell us .when it too~ place in rel_ation ~

1 to these two presei1tat_ions, \Y'het_her it was before or after

8 the first meeting or before or after the second meeting two

9 days. later?

10 A I can t- recall exactly.

11 Q Let me sl)ow you at t_hi_s poi_nt Pla.i.nt_if.f '.s Exhibits

12_ S, 9 and 10 to tbe co::ipla ir.t.

13 Have .you had a. chance to loo~ -at.- t_hoss, si_r?

.14 'A Yes.

15' Q t:j.th ::espect to those t_b_r_ee_ do~'l1ner;ts, \:ben is t_he

16

17 . A Tne fi_rst tine_ tbat :1r. Hilliams--- bre tl)ese. the

18 actual docu)::.ents which ':e:: e execut~d, t~e .... l et_ter of credi't? ..

19 Q They at-e t_be ones tbat a.re attached to your

2_0 complaint.

21 .

A It is the first tine I sa\V' 't;..her.\. The .second time

22 Nr. Sogha.I)alian--!1r. Reynold ~::il~iams ca~e to tbe Danque

23 sru.x el.l es 'Lar.lbert.

( ;~. 24 ......

25

Q Do you have or }).ave you eve.r seen anyth_i_ng in

writing from the ban~ in which they stat~a tbeir objections

i

220

1 to what bad been presented the fit:st t _i _rne by Hr. ~li_ll"iam~? 60- 2 ( :--... ~- i~o. Tbey vex:bal_ly told Hr . lH_l_l iams what amendment

3 were to be re~u~red.

4 ' Q, Ras Mr. "illiams doing. the presenting or was 8x:

5 . t~illiams giving _you .. the documents for yc;>u .to ma~e the .

6 px:esentation?

'i ' A_ He was doing the presenting througb Boca Invest_ments 8 at tbe count.ers of Banque :aru:xelles .L_a_mbe_rt.-

9 ' Q i:1hen you say th~ough Boca -Invest_ments, .Boca ,

10 ' tnvestments '~as the one that \-:as actually submitting a letter

11 of credit for paynent? _Is that right_?

12 1'). ":: es ._

--

13 Q i"ou ba ve n_ot _seen a:,ythi_ng .at a_l_l _i .n wr -i t_i_ng?

.14

15 Q tHth respect- to t~h_ibits 31 .9 and 10, there i_s an

16 a_llegat.io%). made il)_ t .he. pleadings to t .b=. ~ffect--not ,:Just in

17 tbe ple?c~il').gs, but a_lso .in ol)e of t_h~ documents t _hat- has

18 be.en proC.uced to us ..:!)erei_n . you or som~on~ on_ your: be_half

19 atte:.Mpted to deterni_ne ,..-hether the_re ~~as a conpany na_med

20 :sro~mi_ng Pt"ecisiolJ. Tool, Company and regist.sred in -London.

21 Do you

22 On .t _h e advice .of r.:y lawyers.

23 Q i~ho ~ade the. i _nquiry?

( .. 24 '

..::.':. "t..-!::~

25

I did.

~n ~a~ing tbat inquiry, did you just ask, ~s appear,

-.

2 21

l in the document that was !)resented to us, if it~was~ the.name of , .. 2 I

'

a conpany, specifically called Browning :[)recision ':i."ool company, ...

3 or .did .. you ask for the rre::1ch equivalent of that?

4 A Frencb equivalent. of Brow)'ling Precision 'Tool 5 Company?

6 Q -Right, to determine whether or not there was a

7 company that the ~rene~ words would be Browning ~recision

8 Tool Cor.ipany?

.9 A Hhy wduld l -have asked in French? ~o. fto, l didn't -.

10 ask in French.

11 Q 'I'he col":\pany that i_s indicated, or rather tbe

12 en tit~' that i_s _i_ndicated. as baving respol).ded in the_ ..

.. 13 docunent produce,. is the chamber of Co~nerce i_n the City of

.14 nei,rut. ~-:as tl)._at the source you col).tacted for t_bat inormatio ...

15: A "i"es.

16 Q Did you contact any othe_r source il). Beirut. '-:it_h

17 regard to that question?

18 A No.

19 Q Ho'H did you .happen to contact t_hat particula_r source

20 A I ,.fas advised ,by :the Embassy in London.

21 Q 'tH)o in tbe_ Embassy in London advise:d you to .22 contact that source?

23 A Co~m~rcial ~ection.

( 24 -::.~ To which er.~bassy are you referring, the Lebanese ~J.:~

-- 25 Ernbassy there?

.. OALC- (;C:NOAON -----~-=~------------~--------~==~~~----------------------~

e. 222 1 A Yes.

2 Q Do you recall the name of anybody in particular l~::::':;:

3 at, that embassy you contacted?

4 A No.

5 Q Was it a male or female?

6 A I think~it:was a male.

7 Q Does that ~onstitute the extent of your ejforts in 8 that regard ,to locate that company?

9 A Personally, yes.

10 Q Were any other efforts made w~th your knowledge?

11 A I don t J~n0\-1 subsequently if my lawyers nade any

12 further atteMpts.

13 Q Did you ever attempt to locate Ur. !.lanoug, '~hose

.

14 nar.H; appears 0:1 tt,hibi ts S, 9 and 10 to the cor.~pla int?

15 No.

16 Q In your dealinc;s in the arms industry, \,hat does

17 the term "US~ origin" mean?

18 A Originates in the USA.

19 Q Does that mean that it was r.~anufactured in the

United States or tha~ it, is being shipped fror:~ the United 20

States, as you understand the use of that tern, gt::nerally? 21

A .uanufactured in the States .. .

~ 22 Q In the month of l~ovember, subse'!uent to the matters

23 about \1hich you have already told us, can you think of anythi

24 else that occu~red during that month that we have not arready

25

.. OALI[ CtNOFION

223

1 covered?

{ - 2 A Yes. The equipment wasn t dei i_vered. ~ .. '

3 Q How ~did you f_i_nd out- that it was_ not- delivered? .

4 'A By const-ant connul)i~ations from the Haux:itanian '. 5 ~ ~~ba~s~ in Paris.

6 Q Wbo was it- with \'lhom you were cor.ununica ting?

-7 A Hx:. Biga.ignon.

8 Q Be~ore we get to that, let n~ refer you to E~hibit

9 5 to the complaint_ a:l)d ask you, si_r, ,.;ben tbe -first ti_me_ was

10 you ever saw tbat air waybi_ll ~

11 A The second tine l-1r. ~eynold ~;:ilXia::\s came to -the

12

13 Q "-t that tin~, die i'._l')e .,.~_ne of. th~ s_hipper again ...

,14

15 t_!"l e- 8.1 tin nor tar -transactio%)?

H~ '!>. ".{e. s.

17 Q Did you sigx:-. or execute tt.~ orj.ginal of th_is-?

18 A The origin~l air waybill?

19 Q Yes , sir

20 A Yes.

21 Q So thi_s one that appea:t:"s there \l'itt.out your

22 signature is not a copy of the one tbat r,.,as actual_ly .preser:tte

23 ::'he one t_hat \oias pt"es en ted wou'ld ~aar your signa tu:i:e, just

( " 24 as the 31 mm t_ra_nsaction '.rould. Is that correct?

. - ......... _.

-- 25 ;.. Yes.

..

:e 224 1 Q Was your reason for signin'g tbat :ai_r waybi_l_l

( 1 2_ the sat.\e? .... ~-

3 Yes.

4 '.

,5 ' . [Recess taken.]

6 Q l~hat did you do 'Nhen _you hea.rd \oll)_at- _you bave told -

'7 us f_ror.l the_ Haurita_nian Embassy pfficial_s?

8 ~ 'Found o~t the_ .reason_ why it ba~nt:~ been shj..pped.

9 Q How did you do. tb_at? l!o\.;r. did _you go a.bout it?.

10 1>. Ra_ng. Hr. sogh_analial').

11 Q ~hat ~id be tell you?

12 1>. He said the::e \!as a mechanic_al dLfficulty '"'it!). the

~ 13

.14 Q bid be tell you al')ything el~e?

15 A Many e~cuses, yes.

16

17 \:bat it was l).e told you.

18 A Uel.l, the_re \::ere so rnal')y e:~cus .es, I ca_nt r.ecall.

19

20 ot_her than him ,nel).tioni_ng a nechanical di f ficu_l ty wi\;b t _he_

aircraft? 21

.i\ ~hat is real_ly ,.;hat it_ finally ca_ne down to . 22

Q 't;le~e t _bcre any discussion_s at all conce_rning 23

tri?ods at that. tine? ( 24

:~:=: A No. 25

..

!,; ' l ~ I~

( ----~-- --

...

'

1

2

3

4

225 .

Q l~ere 'there any discussions concerning ability ox:

inabil_ity to get trii>ods prior to that t.i_me?

.A No.

Q Did he give you a date as to ,.,hen he expecte'd

5 ~hipment to be able to take place?

Beginning .of Decembei'.

l;1as any of tb.i.s confi_t:med in. writing?

8 A Yes.

9 Q

10 .A That: the aircraft had mechai)ical difficulty, .t_hat

11 he_ couldn't get an a_lternative. airci"a.ft, ''>"ill be s}J.ipped the 12 ~eginning of December ..

13 Q ijave you, sir, ever checked. i:J. .any -;tay to cetermine

14 ~:bether or no\! tbe_ aircraJt -b~d mec}J.c:4:)ica_l difficulty at or

15 about th.at ti_me?

16 A

17 Has anybody on your bebal f ch~c~~.;;d that .out, to

is you_r kn0\11 edge?

19 A

20 Q Ohen you sa~ ~hat there was something subsequent

21 in ~.-.riting, can ~,ou id:::ntify _for us ,.1hat that ,.,a_s?

22 A There was a letter.

23

24

Q

b

lias this a letter from you or t'o you?

A lettei' !ron !-lr. Soghanalian to Boca Investments,

or me. 25 . .

_____ _ _ OAC.C: GC:NORON

2_26

1 Q Wbat did that letter say, t~ tbe 'best of 9oU~ . 2 ' -'::-\ .. ~...: _reco l _lection?

3 A Delay i _n_ delivery was caused by nechan_ical

4 difficplty with the ai_rc~aft and_ u_navai_lahi_lity of alte_x:nativ '. 5 . . aircra_ft and _it was anticipated the goods \':oUld be del_ivered

6 by Hr. Soghanalia%) in tbe rniddl e--_beg inn_ing of oecenber. i Q To the best_ of you~ recollection, wa_s that letter

I

8 from :!r. Sogpa_nalian o~ ,.,as it_ from _someone el_-se?

9 A Hr. Soghan_alian.

10 Q 't~itl)_ regard to you_~ :recollection of the .rnatte~s

11 at t _his .ti_me, were the_re any cfUe_stioi)s r a_ised concer))_i _ng

12 tbe bal:'rt:ls or the lii)e_::s reqUired in tbe otbe_r confi_r-~atiorl

( 13 ,14

15 S?ecif icat._ion that tbe barr~ls W-3_re to be stanca_rd .-

16 U.S. rni~l i _tar_y sp~ci f.ications 't:e.ra not st.~~l_li~.~ 'l .ine_rs.

.17 0 Did ~ny~hing el~.::, t._h_at _you !:lave l)Ot tof.d us,

ia OCCUr -in the 'f.'\Onth Ot f~OVd_~ber 1 t _hat _yOU Ca:) re_i":\e_r.lber t

19 rel'ati_ng to tbis tran_sact_ion?

20 A No.

21 Q Let

22 What h~ppened in the early ,part-of Decenber,

'23 1977, relating to thi$ transad~ion?

( 24 A The lettei' car.le. -"'-~

2_5 Q To wbich ~etter are you refei'l:'ing?

l _ ..

227

1 ~ ~he one relating to del~? -and ~echanical difficU~t? ..... 2

' "~

' ;;:

with t _he ~ircraft.

3 Q Wha~ did you do after receiving that letter~ 4 A Ad~ised the M~~rita~ian Embass?.

' . I s l Q 'Hhat happened aftex:: ~ou advised them of t _hat?,

f. 6 ~ t ., f

A !he_~ became ever more am~io~s and conce_rned ~ ....

I becar:te ev:e.r more anxious .and conce_r ned, E~erybo'dy involved i f 8 " '

became ever mor~ ~n8iOU$ and concerned. t

~I i 9 Q At that po_i _nt- i _n t_ime, had t _be H_aur_itanian GQ~ernment

10 paid out an? money?

11 A Yes.

12 Q t:ho h_ad paid out t _be money cr \:~_at ent_ity on_ b~_half

( l:.. 13 of- t_l;e :::aur_i _ta:nian Gove_rnnel)t'?

.14

15: Q :Th:: n_auritanial) ban_k_s the:::>. h_ad credit_ed ~our Lan}:?

16 Jl. .Ya s.

17 Q !l) :srussal_s?

18 b Ye_s.

19 Q tH_th_ j:l)e f_~l.l amount of t_he invoice?

:

20 A ~etter of cre4it,

21

22 ]l. one and a balf million doll~rs.

23 Q so your- b~n].;, then, in Brussels had t ,he one and

~ half nillion dollars? ( ... 24 ~J.; A Yes.

25

..

228

1 Q And your account had been credited with that

-- 2 ( .....

amount?

3 A Yes.

4 Q Were those monies ever refunded back by the , .

5 Brussels .bank to the uauritanian Government?

6 A l don't know.

7 Q Do you have any idea right now who it is, who

8 besides yourself or Bova Investments is claiming that .they ar

9 . out of pocket, \~hether it .is the Hauritanian Government bank

10 or whether i't is the Br-ussels banl~?

11 A There was a neeting in B:tusse_ls, the :Sanque

12 !3ruxelles Lambert, at ,.,.~ich I ,.,.as advis:;;d that Boca

13 Investments Hou1d be liable _for returning the noney.

....

.14 Q The Brussels ban}~ advised you t_hat?

15 A Yes.

,._

.... .;) 16 Q Have

you hac any contact at. all \dtb the ban~~

17 t~at '"'as b~i_ng used bv t,...o Govern.m.ent of ~lauritania? .. -... .

18 A Uot directly.

Q So essentially, a claiJ'i'\, you say, is being ~ace 19

against you by the Brussels bank? 20

A hgainst noca !nvestnents, Li~ited. 21

Q For the nillion and a half? 22

A Yes. 23

Q Has that bank eve_r physically paid out a .million ( .. 24'

,-.~tF and a half or.physically paid out---25

- I(~

1

-- 2 ( 3

4

5

6

7

8

9

10

11

12

13 ...

14

15

16

17

18

19

20

21

22

23

( 24 .. u

~ 25

...

229

A Uillion point one five three million to nr.

Soghanalian.

Q Relate to us now, if you would, what else you

can recall happening in 'the month of December that you have

not already told us.

I know you told us yesterday about some incidents,

some travel and matters in early December, 1977. What els~ happened in the month of December, besides some discussions

.back and forth about which you have already told us?

A . i~ell, the constant insuiries of Hr. Sogh,analian,

why it hadn 1 t been delivered.

Q Did any o~ those inquiries in the month of

'ecernber discuss in any way tripods?

A ~o.

Q ll h . . '.t.h '., .. W~re a t.a C1SCUSS10nS ~1~. ~-

by ~~l~phon~ during ' . . '"' ~ ~;;.e r..on-:: . o ...

A Somewhere in Portugal.

Q ~et us get to that point, then.~

Soghana.lian

Hhen ,.;as it that _you had any neet_ings or discussions

in Portugal?

A I cant recall exactly.

Q tiere they by phone or in person?

A Some by phone and sone in person.

Q Who was it that was in Portugal when you say they

were by phon~? Do you nean that you were calling Portugal an

.e 1 Mr . soghanalian was in Portugal?

( -~= '2 A 'I t}:l_in~ !)e \oras there some_ ti_me duri_ng :oecernbe_r, yes. ' . ~::.,..

3' Q Do you recall witb any more specificity wbethe_r .it

4 was early, mid or lata tiecember?

5 A No.

-6 Q l~ere you_ in 'Poi'tuga_l in early, mid or late oecembe_r?

'i A Yes.

8 Q_ Do you mean yes: to al.l tb_t:ee? tou we_r~ tbere t _h_ree

9 .times?

10 A :1 wa_s t _here very, ve_ry frec:rue%).tly, yes. , '

11 Q fther~ did you go wh~n jou w~nt there?

12

-

13 Z:fR. R_ICmlbil :- t:o Dec.e_mbe_r on_ any of those meet_ings

.14

'15 Q Did you sta~' at a l).ote_i _?

16 b ~be Sher~ton Hotel.

17 Q Did you vi_'sit_ an arriament plant, al}_ythi:w _l_i_k~ ~-h.at ..

18 -Did you pbysical_ly loo~;_ at anythi_ng?

19 1:. t~ell, tbere 'tfa_s a_n i _n_spection that 'ttas organizee.

..

20 Q "as tbat tb~ ~~spection to wbich you ~reviously

21 testified?

22

2_3 Q O~ber than that inspection, did you . loo~ at anything

else physically relati_ng to this trans-action or just te_lepbone : 24

~ ~:.;;: ~on~ersations or ~onvarsations in person in ~isbon?

25

l.' ..

'J'l . ...

231 .

1 A . Yes.

( ~~ 2_ Q Tbere w~re no other jnspe6tions or anytbing else 3 yo~ loo~ed at physica_l_ly. Is that co:r_rect?

4 A Yes.

5 Q_ .Did you ~eet during th~t month with any Portuguese

6 Gove_:r_nrnel')t: off_icia_ls? -j !:1R. A_NDREl~S: t;t"b_is i _s t_be montb of Pecembe_r?

8 UR . RIC_Hl1AN: Cor:r_ect._

9 A I t _b_in_k :X have al_ready cove:r_e_d that and ! t .b.ii:lt. it-. .

10 was ii:l December that I met Antonio Scblect~

11 Ot_be_r tban -t_hat neet_i _ng wit~ him, doeS: that pretty

12_ \o.el_l cover it?

( .... 13 ,14

Yes.

Q At ~l~_at point ,in t_i_rn_e, did ~'OU have a:_ny di_scussions ,

15: at a l _l rela t _ing to "1h et_hsr or r.ot there "'-as an e~port _l_ic ens e

.,

16 during the rnonth of Deca=b~r?

17 ~bat w~~ it, yes.

18 Q That \.fa s .the di scus_s_iOI:l ~fou t-e stj._f ied about

19 previoUsly?

20 A Ye_s .

21 Q Let us nove now into ~anua~y o~ ~978.

22 Q \:hen \~as the _:i_rst ti_ne i_n January you h_ad

23

( 24 ~.~~':~':'

any meetings with anyone relating to thi_s tral)sactiol}.?

A The be.9inning of J'al}.uary

'--. .

' .

232

1 Q With whom did you ~eet?

( '~~~ 2_ A Honsieur BA, ~ir. -Bigaignon. 3 Q "as tber~ anyone else present? 4 A t\'ell, there were, at all 1':'\eetings '.:ith them -5 . - Q Pardon?

6 A ~t all'neetings with them.

-; Q This partic~lar Deeting to which you ar referring--

a b There .-were a series of meetings with the_m in the

9

10 Q Let ~s start withthe first meeting .

11 Fi_rst of a_l_l, \>lere tber_e otber people present at

' 12 some of the meetings?

... 13 A Ye_s

. 14 Q Let us s-tart \d-::._1) the_ f_i_rst ne-et_i:}g I

15

16

f7 ;.._ -I do:;.t recall !'~ecis'e_ly \:hen it too/: pl.ace--the

18 beg i_nning of Jan~ary, somet_hing.

19 Q \;:hat too}_; place at that- ti_ne?

20 A Well, we disc~ssed the diplomatic inter~ention

21 and raising of an export l_icense.

22 Q How did you find out about tbe lack of a lic~nse?

23 11. z:r. Soghanalian told ~s th:at- th'e export license

;' 24 . ::-:. \ ~::;;. 25

he had rai_sed for the initial s'!J,iprnent had expired and

become invalid.

_2_33

1 Q He said e'

.e 234 .. 1

any discussions with Mr. Soghanalian or anyone on his beha~f ( -~. 2

.... .;::-: about him obtaining those two items for the Government of 3

- Mauritania? 4

A Certainly not. 5 Q Di,d you ever inform him that the Government of 6 Mauritania was interested in those two ite~s? 7 A No. 8 Q To the best of your knowledge, you in no way ever 9 discussed _that with Hr. Soghanalian or any of his re.?resentati

10 Is that correct? 11 A To my recollection. 12 Q tHth respect to the l~tter ~,hich appaars as Exhibit

{ 13 -~ l-5 to your complaint, \.."ould you tell us, si!', ho,, that letter ,14 ~ .. as obtained. 15 ;.. !;o. ! can't tell you.

16 Q ~hen did you first see it? 17 A :-ly la\'iyer advisee t'\e that t_he;' had. it.

18 Q Did. he indicate ~o you how he had obtain~d ? l.~.

19 A Not to ~y recollection, no.

20 Q Z..1r. Ralph, '-:hen the original la.,.:suit was filed.

21 in Federal Court, which I have shown you and which has teen

22 marked as Defendants' Exhibit ll to this deposition, one of

23 the de:fendants named in that case \-las R. ~1. Hilliams, Jr.

( 24 ~:::. Do you know how he was named as a defendant in the :~~::=:

25

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e e 235' 1 A Uy lawyers advised that he was a co-defendant.

,--:,. 2 ' I

Q 11.r. lHll iarns, when this conplaint was refiled in -

3 St~te Court, as opposed to Federal Court, was no longer named

4 as a co-defendant.

5 Do you know why he was not named as a co-defendant

6 in the new lawsuit?

7 A Isigned arelease.

8 Q t\'hy did you release him?

9 A , l was advised to do so by my lawyer.

10 Q Do you have any knowledge you~self as to. why the

11 release was done, other than your lawyer saying, "Here is a

12

.. 13 A No. I don t reca_ll.

14 Q Did you ~ver have an~ !ace-to-face discussions

15

16 A No.

17 !:1R .1\HDREHS: 'Nhen? Jte has testified---

18 Im. RICU:!At;: Obviously.

19 Q Other than what _you have already testified to as

to what occurred in 1977. 20

A Yes. 21

Q You had no other discussions. Is that correct? 22

A That's correct. 23

Q Did you ever, at any other time relating to this I 24 \ transaction in 1978, neet with Mr. ~illiarns or see hirn face

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e. :236 1 to-fac~ at anyt~me?

Q' To your knowledge, did anyone on behal_f_ o( Boca 4 Ihvestments?

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5 A well, .Hr. 5eynoid Williams' deposition_ was taken.

I_ meant othex:: -than_ in the legal_ matters reiating,

7 . ~.to the case .

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A

Q So then, everything that- was done_ with re9ard_ to 10 .Mr. Hilli_ams---

'11 -A E~euserne. We are- talking about i978?

'12 .Q Yes, sir, 1'978 .

13 i-las ever-ythin~ that- was done_ relating t~ .ur._

,14 williams, then, ;say aftex:: .J"ariua:x::y l, 1978_, done_ strictly

15- through your lawyers?

w A Yes._

17 Q ~n essence, .then,, you bad :t'O- input- either way with

'.18 regard to the decision to drop Mr. "iili~~s as a defendant

19 in the_ case, but- .simply allowed that- to 'be a: jUdgment. of_

.20 your 'lawyers?

21 A' Yes.

22 Q How about .,.lfth .respect- to QRC .International, Limited?.

23 i1ould your answex:: 'be the same?

. 24 A Yes

:25 Q ~lith_. .respect to Plainti_ffs' Exhibit- 15', other than

( -~ . --.....

. '

e e 1 what you .have already told_ us about a code, so to speak,

2 or whatever, you certainly had no kind of a non-compete

3 agreement that would preclude United Trade International,

4 Inc., from going to theMauritanian Gover~ment with an offer?

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A No. I expected Mr. Soghanalian to observe the

commercial courtesies and not do that.

Q There is attached to the complaint, Exhibit 16,

two checks.

Do yo~ have any 'knowledge as to either of those

two checks, as to what the funds were used for or anything?

A No.

Q Do you know who ICS, Incorporated, is?

A No.

Q You do not know who Ur. Frederick M. Gener is?

A No.

Q Let me show you Exhibit 13 to tbe complaint and

ask you when the fi_rst time was you ever sa,,.. that document.

A In Lisbon.

Q Hhen?

A I think about that date.

Q Who p~esented that to you?

A Mr. Soghanalian.

Q Has Mr .Ha_rtins present- at the ti_me?

A I believe so, yes.

Q Did that relate to the inspection that you made

OAU: GCNDIItON I

238

1 during the month of December, 1977?

2 A 8elate to? I don't think it related to any

3 in_sl>ection. I don't know.

4 Q You indicated'that you personally inspected tbe '. 5 HBM2 machine guns.

6 I don't ~now whethe~ that relate~ to that. ~

7 Q ~~as it .represented to you that the machine guns

that you were i_nspecting. were the guns that were referred

9 .to in this letter at or about the same time?

10 1{R. ANDREWS: It was a gun, was it not? .

11 It is -not guns?

12 ~R. RICHl11':1N: U.Y recollection was that he

13 personally saw one in an area ,where there were a

. 14 nurnbe~ of other crated guns he personally did not open I

15 MR. AND~Eas: He saw one gun in a crate opened

16 by ~r. Soghanalian.

17 Am I co~rect, Mr. ~alph, that yo~ saw ~any other

' -

crates tbat you did not open? 18

19 TH-E ~1 I_'l'N-E S S : I saw many otbe~ boxes of the_ same

size and type. 20

Q 'Has .it represented to you by anyone at tbat time 21

that wbat ':ias in this letter wa~ what you we~e inspecting? 22

A It was represented to me at that time by 'Mr. 23

~ Sogl).analial'\. that the weapons we were inspecting were tl).ose t 24

~

...... weapon subject to the instant transaction

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Q With respect to Mr. Martins, did you discuss with him anything relating tofuis letter?

A No. That was--- No, I didn't.

Q Subsequent to the end of December, 1977, did you

ever have any face-to-face meeting or conversation with Mr.

Martins?

A During December?

Q After December, after the inspection took place in December.

A Yes.

Q ~hen did you next talk to Mr. Martins?

A On various occasions when I was in Portugal, in

January and February.

Q l~ho was present at the .~time -.YO? met with Mr. 1-~artin~, say in January, 1978?

A Mr. Burr, Mr. Bigaignon.

Q ~here did you meet with Mr. Martins?

A I think, general~y speaking, it was at the Sheraton Hotel, but I can't recall eac~ precise meeting.

Q l'i}:lat was discussed when you met with hi_m the first time in January of 1978?

A Well, my usual question, "When is the equipment

going to be delivered?"

Q What did he say to you?

A "You have to speak to Mr. Soghanalian."

'.

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.24 0

1 Q Did he say anything different at any other meetings

2 , in the month of January, 1978, or was that essentially the

3 same conversation?

4 'A Well, essentially, it was si_rni_lar conversations.

5 Q Did you have any discussion with him after January

6 12th?

i A There was a meeting when I went to Portugal 8 speciJically, to see Mr. Marti_ns, to demand an inspection of

9 'the equipment.

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Q When was that?

In February, as I recall.

Q Hhere did you see Mr. Martin_s?

Went to him at his office.

Q Was anyone else present then?

Yes.

Q Who else?

Mr. Robert Burr.

Q Anyone else?

A Yes.

Q Nho else?

A Jose Sousa e "ello.

Q Is that when .you went with you~ atto~ney?

A No.

Q I am confused on two Portuguese na~es here.

Was that the translator or was that the lawyer?

O.r.LI: ClNDRON

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e e-1 A That was the translator.

2_' ' Q ~wo di_fferent people?

3 A Yes.

4 Q . Anyone else?

5 A No .

Q A~ that meeting i~ Februaryi wha~ did . M~. Martin

7 tell you?

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A ~e .said .he refused to let Us see the wea~ons tha~

he held_ because 'he had_ to . :have ~r . soghanallan s .instructions

to show them to us .

Q_ Where was Mr . : Soghanal_ian at_ the time~

A l don't -know. Q t:tere you told whe_re he was ot: not~

A We_ - as~ed where ' ~1r. Soghana_iia~_ was .

Q ~hat wera you told? A Hr . Hartins_. said he d1dn' t J;now where he wa_s.

Q What hap~ened -aftar that? 1). Hr. Martins a~ded_ that .tl)e weapons_ that _he. held

19 -were ait:craft Brownings.

20 Q ~as ~hat tSe ~irst time . you h~d heard tl)at?

21' A Yes .

_22 .Q 'What did. you res~ond to that?

23 A. :H_ade no response at: _all,. jUst. made a note of what_

24 was, said.

25' o Did you r:take a note - in Wt:i ti_ng?

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A Mentally.

Q Hhat did xou do afte~ that .meeting: in.February?

A Returned to London.

0'' can yoti be more precise as to the date of that

meeting?

.A

Q Hhat did you do. after that, after you retur-ned.

to London, relating- to this transaction~ .,

A st~rtedlooking'for lawyers.

Q In_ London~

'[\_ No.

Q A Portuguese ~a~~er? A {es Q Is that when you went out and. jlired a Portuguese

lawyer?.:

Q 'What happened aft~~ .. that? I ta}:e it we_ are stil-l .

in the middle of February,. 1~78, at this point, wh-ile, .YOUwer

looking for lawyers.

A :As I. said, it 'w'as :around .in.February._ I don't

think I was- speci_fic_ even in saying it '~as the middle of

February.

Q -Did' you -~ave any further contact witn Mr . Martins o; Mr. Soghanalian after that ,point?

A .I tri-ed .. on_ :many occasions to contact Mr. Sog:hanalia~.

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Q How about Mr. Martins? Did you ever meet with o~ talk with Hr. Hartins again after that ti_me?

A No.

Q Did anyone th~t you.know of t~lk to Hr. Martins

again on your behalf, a lawyer or anyone else, to your

knowledge, relating to this matter?

A I think rny lawyer, my Portuguese lawyer, spoke to

Mr. Martins on many occasions.

Q Did your Portuguese lawyer t~ll you what Mr.

Martins had said?

A ~ell, they were a start of a long series of investigations and I don't have records or can't recall

exactly, precisely what I was told.

Q Surely you can recall in general what he told ,

you Mr. Martins' response was, can you not?

A Not in as many words, no. I'm sorry. I can't.

Q Not even in general? A Not in general terms.

Q Did he obtain a written statement from Mr. Martins?

A I don't know what documents he has.

Q Did you receive any other written communications t

from Mr. Soghanalian subsequent--or anyone on his behalf--

to the matters you refe_r to in December of 1977?

In other 'I.-lords, anything in writi_ng by way of explanation.

or anything else?

O A L !: Cf:NORON

244

1 A Well, the usual response was that he was out of ~ 2 ( - the country. She couldn 1 t get ; aho'ld'. of him. He was in

3 a clinic and couldn't be contacted, refused to give the name

4 of the,clinic. '. 5 Q Who was that? Who told you that?

6 A Mr. Soghanalian's secretary.

7 Q Is het name Saita or do you know?

8 A We~l, I don't know exactly, but I think so.

9 Q Did yob e~er again talk verbally to Mr. Soghanalian

10 about this transaction after the month of ~anuary, 1978?

'11 A Yes. He was in Portugal in February the last time

12 I saw him, in the Sheraton Hotel.

13 Q Is that the one you already testified about or have

14 you told us about that?

15 A No. I haven't told you.

16 Q Tell us about that.

17 A Well, I went to the Sheraton Hotel. Mr.Soghanalian - .

18 was there. I said when was the equipment ~oing to be delivere ,

19 and he said, "We're dealing with it. Don't worry. There's

20 no problem."

21 Q Did you inform him a't t_hat time about your conver-

22 sation with Mr. Martins, that they were aircraft weapons? .

23 A I think at that time I hadn't- spoken to !-1r. Hartins ...

t '::.. 24 .. :.:::. ~=:;;;...~

about that.

25 Q Can you be ~ore precise ~s to when this meeting

..

.24 5

1 took I>lace in _February- of __ 1978?,

(, .... ~ 2 A 1 can't ~ecall P!ecisely when i~ took place, ~o. 3 Q Bu~ ~ou believe before yoQ talked t6 Mr. Martins? 4 -. A Oh, it was definite!~ before 1 t~~ked to Mr. Martins. 5 Q Do you ha~e any indication as to wh~ Mr. Soghanalian

.

6 was there in Portug~l? 7

8 Q. Were you thsre SI>ecifically related only to th_is ~ ' 9 'transaction?

10 A. Yes.

11 Q Wh_at- happened after that con~ersation with ~r.

12_ Soghanalian? You had no other contact with bim from that_ , .. _ 13 Roint on until the present day?

14 A No. I tried to contact hi_m by telephone on many "' I

l~ . ' occasions, but I was always told that he was%)'t- a~ailable 16 or be \.;rasn' t t_here or be was somewbere else or out of. the

17 count'ry.

18 Q Let- me show ~ou Exbibit- 14 to your complai_nt- .and

19 ask_ you when ~ou saw th_at, sit'.

20 A In February.

21 Q Do you~know approxi~ately when it was ~ecei~ed?

_22 A _I think about tbe 7th of Februar~. .

23 Q 9as ~his before ot after your meeting with ~r.

( ... 24 '::::r.

' .... ~.'"'::

Sogbanalian in Lisbon? --.=:..

-25 A I can't recall.

.. OAl_C GCNCRON

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Q Were you there duri_n.g , _ before o:r:: af_ter the_

Portuguese rtational holidays i~ Februar9, Lf ~oti remern~er? A Certai~ly not duri~g t _he Porttiguese .national

holida9s. It mus~ have been before. I do~t ~now.

l{R. RICHMAN: Let me go ahead and have that- mar~ed by the_ reporter as otir next- numbered exhibit.-

- f - -

(Whereupon, the docume~~ ~eferred to was mar~ed as Defe~dants' Exhibit No. 12 for identi_fication.)

9 Could you identify Exhi_bit No -. 12 for us.

A Yes.

Q Appro8irnately ~hen did you receiv tbat? ~ I tbink on. tbat date, whenever it was.-

Q Do you know how o:r:: wh9 that was ~ent?

~ Yes. I said to ~:z::. Sogba~alia~ tba_t the bank was --

very con~erned about the matte:z:: and tbe_y wanted to '].:_now wbat-

the situatio~ was.

Q Did :you re

247

1 A Oh, I had face-to-face---

( .-:-:: 2 MR. ANDREWS: Let him ask the question. '

3 Did you mean to say relating to this letter?

4 M~. RICHMAN: I didn't get a chance. '. 5 Q (Continuing) --relating ~pacifically to that

6 letter?

7 A Did I discuss it with him?

8 Q Yes, sir, before he sent the letter?

9 A No.

10 Q bid you discuss it with Mr. Soghanalian?

11 A I told Mr. Soghanalian the bank required an

12' explanation.

13 Q Did _you ever check out or verify the state_ment

14 at the bottom of the letter tbat items of th~s type are

15 under strict- military control?

16 A Items of what type?

17 Q The last paragr~ph of befendants' Exhibit 12. ''

18 A ~el~, it is generally that itemsof military

19 significance are under strict mi_li tary control .

20 Q Who was the cpnsignee on the shipment? Were

21 the goods consigned to Boca Investments or were they consigne

22 to the Government of Mauritania? .

23 A They were consigned to a carrier.

! 24 Q Let me refer you to this.

, ......

25 ~ihen this statenent was made in that letter, did

.. OAI.C GCNOROI'I

'24 8

1 you disagree with what was stated there?

~-~ 2 A I didn't have any discussion regarding the contents

3 of the letter.

4 Q My question is: Did you look at it and say,

5 "That is wrong: that is incorrect"?

6 A No. I mean, that was the .letter that Mr. Soghanali n .

7 had written.

8 Q Your signature ~ppears at the bottom. Is that righ

9 A Yes.

10 Q That is the Boca Investments, Limited, s~amp. Is

11 that right?

12 A Yes. But that was added subsequently as a con~ I

-~::::, 13 fi_rmation, a true copy.

14 Q Nhen was that added as a confirmation of a true

15 copy?

16 A I took the letter. The letter was addressed to

17 Bai)que Bruxelles Lambert and I took ~t to Banque B,ruxelles

is Lambert in Antwerp and I took a faded copy ~f that and on

19 that I had to verify that that was a true photocopy and put

the seal and ~y signature as verification that it was an 20

accurate copy. 21

Q So that was the one given to the Banque Bruxelles 22

Lambert? 23

A Yes. I, :::1& 24 ~'E~~ Q How did you happen to get the copy that was given

25

.. DAI..C CC:NORON -- ------=-==--'

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to the Banque Bruxelles Lambert, as opposed to the origina~

copy?

A I'm sorry. I don't- understand.

Q There is the copy that was attached to the complain

A The original went to Banque Bruxelles Lambert.

Q Without that stamp on it?

A Yes.

Q Why did you put that stamp on there?

A Because I took a copy of it.

Q For yourself? A For the file, yes, for the record.

Q If you disagreed with something here, you did not

feel any obligation to the Banque Bruxel_les Lambert t _hat

there was something wrong in here,t~at this was not an accurate

statement?

A I could not discuss the contents of it. I wasn't

in a position. ~hat was the letter. That was the letter.

I gave it to the Banque Bruxelles Lambert;~

Q You_r sta tenent under oath as to :everything i_rl here is

that you had nothing to ~o with the language that went into

thi~ letter. Is that correct?

A Absolutely.

Q Do you know whether or not your lawyer ever

obtained in his investigation any documents, army documen~s,

relating to the transportation of the 300 Browning AN-M3.50

DALt G'NDRON

caiibre machinetluns?

250 J I

A_ No.

Q we 'have_ gone. ,through the .month of rebruary.

What 'ha~~~ned .in the month .of Mar~h relatin9 to

this transaction?

.A -I instructed my lawyers_ in America.

Q other than .instructing ~our lawyers in_ America,

di4 you have~n~ ~urther contactwit~ anybody on behalf.of

the defendant. in this c~se .reYatin9. to thismatter, anyone

at.all?

A I can't ~ecall.

-MR . RIC-HH-1\.N: This would' be -a good time fot: a

lunch break.

[Qhereupbn, a luncheon .re~ess was taken.l

:.BCI'tT . u TON .-RI(OMAN ~ ~OMSAROI

OAt.t GtNORON ''

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251

AFTERNOON SESSION

[Thereupon, the deposition reconvened at 1:41 p.m.~

[Discussion off the record) MR. RICH~1AN: Let us put something to that ef_fect

on the record and summarize briefly what we have just said right here.

Fo:t" the record, I have requested of counsel for

Mr. Ralph that with regard to any documentar9 evidence

or information, materials of that kind that- would come

within the scope of our Request fo:t" P.roduction or that

are within .the ambit of these questions we nave as~ed

I"ela ting to what Mr. Ralph s la1,.;yer in Portugal has

obtained, be provided to us, if there are any such

documents.

l-1_R. ANDREWS: Right. I have responded by saying

that I. \>til_l rnc;ke inquiry of. that. lawyer and iJ there

are documeJ)ts, I will. ma~e a_ request of. t!:lat lawyer to deliver them over.

MR. RICHMAN: We have ~lso agreed we will ~utually

try to set up some.deposition schedules for both si~es .

sometime subsequer)t- to October 1.5th, and we will be in touchon that.

Bac~ on the record on the substance of the

deposition.

Q Mr. Ralph, you referred to a letter earlier that

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Hr. Richmond' had sent _you relating to the e.X_f?lanation for

delays and .. that _you subsequently gave to t _he. ba.nk in Brussels

How did ~ou receive that letter !rom Mr: Richmond? ~ . He 9ave it to me.

Q In _person?

A Yes. Q Do you know ~her the letter was typed? A Yes, i cn the hotei. suite where Mr. Richmond and

Mr. S~ghanalian were.

0 ~~ere both of them sta_ying there in the hotel_ at

tbat ti.rne, physically?

A Yes. ' '

Q Were you sta~i.n9 i .l'l Lisbon, vi.si.ti.ng . _i _n L_isbon ~t

th_at ti_me or what?

A 01') of the trips I made to Lisbol') to establish

.what the _posit_ion was.

Q tou al:'e certail')_ .that_ lir. Soghal')al_i __ an was persona_l_ly

pl:'esent whel') :tha~ lettel:' was typed?

A Yes. .,

Q l'lere ,you also . pe_rsonally present wl)el') it- '"as _b_~ing

typed?

'!j. Yes._

Q Did you have any discussions r~garding its contents

at the time it was_ typed?

A No.

- OAI.C G(NORON

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~~ 2

3

4

s

6

i 8

9

1Q 11

12

( -~ ... 13 '

.14

15

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f7 .

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19 :.

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i 24 I. ~

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253

Q I am going to ask you some questions that, based

upon tbe objections that were voiced yesterday, I expect likely you w~l~ be ~nstructed not to answer. ~u~ I want to

ask these questions for the record, so we can have the court .

make a determination as to whether _you s'h,ould be required

to answer them.

' Wit~ respect to your e~p1oyee o~ consulta~t, as

you refer to' him, Mr. Burr, to your knowledge, was ~1r. Burr

i11volved in supplying any arms or weapons to any country?

z.n~. A_NDREWS: }'ou -ca11 answer tba t. A I don't kno0.

Q ~~ere you or a_nyone \-lith '\o1hom you were associated,

to your J.-.t1owledge, involved .in supplying weapons to Libya~ H_R. ~~~DRE~1S: Objection.. Do :;ot answer t'h,e question. HR. R_ICJ;-MON: Let me prof_f er for the record the

reason for it so it will .be clear for the court~

We believe that activities of that type,' i_f they ,# I

occurred, relating to Li_bya, w}:lich_ would be adverse to th~ inter~st of ~auritania du~ii1

254 . .

1 .A No.

, ~~~~ 2 .-:-

Q Your answer is that no, you were not involved in

3 supplying any,weapons to Libya at any time. Is that correct?

4 A Yes.

5 MR. ANDREWS: And it was even broader than that--

6 any person associated. .

7 MR. RICHMAN: That is the next question I am going

8 to ask, to be clear on it.

9 Q To your knowledge, was Mr. Burr or anyone else

10 with whom you were associated during 19?6, 1977 o~ 1978

11 involved directly or indirectly in supplying weapons to the

12 Country of Libya?

13 A :-iot to my knowledge. .....

14 Q Do you normally keep copies of Telexes that you

15 sent and received?

16 A Hostly.

17 MR. RICHMAN: Let me get the identifica~ion of some

is specific documents that have been supplied to us.

19 Ms. Reporter, would you take these next documents

20 and mark this, please, as Defendants' Exhibit 13.

21 [Whereupon, a two~page document was marked as

Defendants' Exhibit No. 13 for identification.) 22

MR. RICHMAN: Mark this as Defendant's Exhibit 14. 23

To save time here real quick, how about marking ( :: .. 24

255

1 (Whereupon, the documents referred to were marke~ 2 as Defendants Exhibits Nos. 14, 15, 16, 17, 18 and 19,

3 re~pectively, for identification.) 4 Q Before we get spec1ficall~ into thes~ documents, 5 let me clean up a couple of things in our Request for

6 Production.

Mr. Andrews may want to answer these, as well,

8 on your behalf.

9 In our Request for Production, we asked for any

10 documents that would show the United Trade International Air . ' .

11 Cargo, Limited, as a company owned and/or controlled by the

12 Defendant Sarkis G. Soghanalian. Other than what has already

~.:-::. 13 been supplied to us, you have no knowledge of any written

0

14 documents that would support that?

15

16

17

18

19

20

21

22

23

24

25

A No.

Q Do you have any verbal information that would

support that, other than what _you personally observed?

HR. ANDRE\~S: t-lhat is otherwise, .j.n the record in this case?

MR. RICHMAN: Correct.

A No, I don't think so. I can't recall any

infornation.

Q Nith respect- to Paragraph 7 in your complaint, you

have specifically alleged that Defendant Browning Precision

Tool Company i _s a company owned and/or controlled by t _he

O-.l.C: C[NOIII:::_:ONc:___ ___ _

e 256 -1 Defendant Sarkis G. So9hanalian.

-- 2 t Vpon wbat do you base that statement?

3 M-R. ~N-DREWS: I object to that- guestion 'because 4' ' the state~ent is b~sed on everything we have put forth 5 in tbe record by way of attachments, by arguments assert

6 _ed before the trial court in the matter and there is not_h_ing

7 be_yond what- .we; have already asserted. We .have no

8 furt_hex: inforrnatior1_ to base that- Ol1 1 ot_her than what '

9 has 'been developed thus _far in t _his case by way_ of

10 pleadings, e~bibits and attacbment~ thereto and depo-

11 sitions .and exhibits thereto.

12 MR. RICHHA_N: -Let me inquire ful:'t_her of Hr. -R~lph

\~. 13 as to whether or :not be nas any i _nfo;t"mation or docu-.

.14 hentatiQn lndicating that M~. Sogbanalian owr1s a co~pany j

15 Known as Browni_ng Precision_ .Tool Compan_y. ..

16 TH_ WI~N-ESS: No. _I h_ave no d~cumenta tion.

17 Q Have you eve_r met or sougbt to meet Hr . ~!anoug,

18 "'hose n_ane appears on the various certi_ficates? I _ be_lieve

19 _it i _s E,r._}libi_ts 8, .9 and _10 to the complaint.

2_0 A No.

21 Q l~ ~a~agraph 19 of the Request for Production,

22 ref_erri_ng back to actual_ly Pa_ragraph 19 of the complaint,

tbere is a - reference that the aix-craft B707-N7ll-U-T was 23

not at any time On November 15, _1977, in Lisbon, .Portugal. ( 24

_ ...... _

25 Do you hav~ any documents or any statements of

..

OA~(; GtNOIIION

257

-- 1 an~one tha~ woUld support that statement? ( -~ 2 A I have no documentat;on to that ef_f_ect. .

3 Q Do ~ou have an~ statements. of any individUals 4 who ha,ve advised you to t:hat effect?

5 A I have no statements of anybody who has advised

6 me, no.

'i Q Do . you ~now anyone who does? 8

9 MR. ,i\NDREWS: Yes. I think ~ou can answer tbat.

10 Excuse me. I want the_ record to be clear.

11 His attorney, being m~self, made ar1 investigation

12 to ~hat ef!ect a~d have satisfied ~yself ~nd so advised

,flJJI 13 ~r. Ralph.

14 ,i\nd I have .no documentati_on.

15 ~fR. RICHl:1Af~: Does U_r. Ra_lph know of the names

16 of :any individuals who would verbally .support 'that

17 investigatio%1?

l8 'HR. ~NDREWS: No.

19 HR . Ric:m1AU: If you do, would you voluntaril~ -

2Q tell us who it- is,. so we do not have to go through . '

21 inte~r~g~tbries. on that point?

22 MR. ANDREHS: t do not know that I am at liberty -

23 to tell,you that now because it is a government agency

( ~:~ 24 ::. ~=:~

-....

25

involved.

HR~' RICHH~N: u;s. or foreign?

OA~C CiC:NORON ' ~

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4

s

6

7

8

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11

12:

13 :~::~

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17

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22

23

( 24 ~ 25

- .

e 258

l-1R. l'l.NDRE.WS': U.S

,MR. RICHMAN: Let me leave it this way. If _you

cannot tell us, please advise us, so we can propound

the inte~rogatories, because I might want to talk to

those people. If we do not know who -they are, ,.,e

cannot talk to them.

HR. ANDREWS: All right.

Q Nith regard to the documents we have just had .marked, let ne show you Defendants Exhibit 13, which was I' produced by your attorney pursuant to t~e Request for

Production and ask you to identify that, sir.

A Yes. l can identify it.

Q l\'hat is it?

A It is a schedule of most of, but not all aircraft I

trips and trips abroad relating to this insta~t . rnatter.

Q By whom, y6u personally?

A By myself and by Mr. Burr.

Q t~re some of those trips you are -..- l_ndicating on

there t _rips that were pe_rformed solely by Hr. Burr and ~ot

by you or are they alJ trips performed by you, some of which

were with Mr. Burr?

A All. trips performed by me, some of which with Hr.

Burr.

Q All of these trips that are indicated on here

are not trips necessarily related to this transaction, are

they?

OA\.t GCNDRON

259

1 A 'Yes.

-~~. 2 ( Q E~erything o~ here relates to this transaction, 3 meaning 'either the mortars or the machine guns?

4 A Yes.

5 Q So the record will be clear, inthe column on

6 tbe left-hand portio~ of it where three numbers appear,

i separated by dots, the number on the left is the day~. the '

8 number in the middle the month, and the number on the ri

260

1 transportation?

I 2

' ..

A Air fares and travel.

3 Q That would indicate on or about that date,

4 February 20th, Mr. Bigaignon traveled in relation to this

5 transaction?

6 A Yes.

7 Q And Ahmadou?

8 A Yes.

9 Q ~~hy would you have a figure in there for Ahmadou?

10 Why would that be included on your list?

11 A That \-tas a travel ticket for Hr. Ahrnadou to go to

12 Portugal.

13 .... ~.

Q Was not Hr. Ahmadou an employee of the Hauritanian'

14 Government?

15 A Yes.

16 Q Why would you be paying for an employee of the

17 Mauritanian Government on government business to go to

18 Portugal?

19 A Because the Mauritanian Embassy insisted that we

20 did pay the travel.

21 Q Was that the only instance in which you paid the

22 travel for any Hau_ritanian official? I know it is the only

23 one that appears on here. Would that be' the only instance?

( 24 . .:::.~~

A l\e paid for Captain Anne to go to America for

:.::.:.:

25' an inspection.

.. OALC: GI:NORON

261

1 0 Your company, Boca !nvestments, paid or Anno~ 2

! .. A .Yes. .

3 Q A~yone else? 4 A Nr. Bigaignon.

'.

5 0 So all Mr. Bigaignon's travel expenses related in

6 a~y way to this matter were paid by Boca Investments?

7 A Well, I dont know that a11 of them wre, no.

8 -I think he p~oba_bly had hi_s own expenses, but just those 9 ' items.

10 Q The o~ly ite_ms shown for l1r. Biga_ignon is one

11 it~m that is on here. Would that be the only one that Boca

12 Investnents paid for, to your k~owledge, or were there others?

"'::.\ 13 A ~~ell, he came a_lso on the inspection to America

. 14 as an interpreter I

15 Q A_re you ta_lking about the trip in July of 1977?

16 A Yes.

17 Q Who paid for that trip over?

18 A Boca Investme~ts.

19 Q Why does that then not appear on this list?

20 A Well, I thfnk it does. I would have to make a

'21 reconciliation of the list.

22 q Hhat do the origi_nal boo].:_s look like from which

23 this list was compiled?

l 24 .. ~~~

25

A The accountants are doing them. They have---

They prepare the books.

.. OA'-_C: CCNCRON

e. 262 1 Q So there are actually ledger books or whatever

--

:... 2 there in the Channel Islands?

..

3 A Yes. The normal company accounts are ke'pt and

4 all sent over to the accountant. ' ..

5 Q Is there just one book that contains .all this 6 information or more than. just one book? 7 A Oh, I think more than one book.

8 Q Would you identify Defendants' 15 for us, please.

9 MR. ANDREWS:

10 MR. RICHMAN: I am sorry. lvhat number appears

11 on there?

12 THE fiiTNESS: 15.

.. 13 M_R. RICHHAN: We have one marked out of order.

... ~

14 I meant this to be marked 14. '

15 Ms. Reporter, could you just re-mark these two.

16 [flhereupon, Defendants' 'Exhibit. 14 was re-rnarked .~

17 as Defendants' Exhibit 15 or identification, and pefendants'

18 Exhibit 15 for identi.fication was re-markedas Defendants'

19 Exhi_bi t 14 for identification.]

20 Q Let me hand'y~u Exhibit 14 and ask you what

21 that is, sir.

22 A Normal expenses involved in the instant matters.

23 Q Prepared ina similar manner?

A Yes. { 24

:~;:~ 25

Q One relates primarily to travel, air fare, and this

.. OA\.C:. GtNOJitON

~--(

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( ,. ~-!~ ,_

263

1 one relates to hotel expenses. Is that right?

2 A Yes.

'3 Q There is a notation on here of a trip to Miami

4 in March of 1978.

5 On that trip to Miami, did you attempt to contact

6 Mr. Soghanalian?

7 A No.

8 Q was that trip for the purpose of meeting with

9 lawyers or was it for some other purpose?

10 A Yes.

11 Q ~t was for lawyers?

12 A Yes.

13 Q You ~ade no attempt, verbally or by phone or

4 ' otb~rwise, to call Mr. Soghanalian. Is that correct? .1

15 A Yes.

16 Q Can you idel'}tify Defendants' E~hibit 15, please.,

17 sir.

18 A Yes.

19 Q -;;;rhat is that?

A That is the enforcement, insurance enforcer:~ent. 20

Q Was that related strictly -to the 5, 000 mortar 21

'

rounds that appear on here on the 15th of Nover:~ber? 22

A Yes. 23

Q Those are the ones that ,.,.ere in fact delivered, as 24 I

opposed to the ones that were :not delivered. Is that correct I -25 I

.. OM.C GtNOI'ION

2Q4 -

A. xes

,___

. 2 Q ~iould you identi_fy Defenda_nts E_xl).i_bit_ 16, -please.

3 Wh3.t is that?

4 A. Photostatic. copy of a letter from Boca Investme%lt_s,

5 L_ir:li_ted, to Hr. Sogha-nalian.

6 Q ~las that sent at or about the time that api)ea_rs

"i there, December, 2, 1977?

8 '/:. I tbin_k it: was hand-carried.

9 Q "ho hand-carried it?

10 A. Mr. -Burr.

11 Q Did you ever receive any ~illd of receipt from

12 Hr. Sogbanalian indicating that he ever received that?

.... . 13 '/:. No.

,14 Q Wbo was wit_h Hr. Bu_rr at the ti_me be ha%ld-ca_rri_ed

1S tbi_s letter~

16 A. ~ie_ hand-carried to Q~C lntei'Ilational' s offices.

17 Q ~his, the%\, was not given in ~lorida~ ~bi~ was

l8 given ill Hashington, D.C., or Virg,i _nia?

19 '/:. '1 e_s. :It was handed to the of_fices of QRC.

20 Q i1ho in QRcwere you advised received it?

21 A ~1r. -Reyl)old l~ill_ i'ams.

22 Q You have no knowledge as to whether ~r. Soghanal_ian

2_3 _has ever person~lly seen it, do you, sir?

A I have no ~_I\0\-lledge of th_at. !' 24 \

~~- Q Ql).at action, if -any, was ta~en after this lett~r 25

..

265

1 was allegedly delivered by !1r. Burr. to .Hr . Hilliams?

.t.::;~~ 2 A 'The ai_r waybill was amended ...

3 Q So all of the things that are stated on here were

4 in fact done, as re~uest~d? i

5 A Yes.

6 Q Who carried that- out, l1r. Wil.liams? .

i A I don . t know.

a Q Who wrote this letter?

9 A . X dictated that letter.

10 Q At that point in time, was the,re any con~ ern

11 about- the del_ivery, as to 'o~hetber tbe materials had been

12

.I .. 13

14

delivered~

. A Yes

Q If t_bere , .. ias a concern about wbet.bel:' or not the

I I

j I

'

f5 materials had been. delivered, why was not .anything about that

16

17

18

19

I I .

I

~entioned ~n tbat l~tter on becember. 2nd? A M~. Burr toot those instl:'uctions verbally, relayed

them personally to QRC lnternational' s offi.ce. Q ~::hat inst_ructions?

A The concern'. \~e wanted to know why tbe delivery 20

hadn't been r.tade. 21

In reply, we were given a lette~ saying tbe 22

del_iveries haven t been made because of technical difficulties 23

with the aircraft. ./ 24 \ '+ It a" Q But at the time that tbis letter which talked' about

25

... OAI.C. G(I'

266

1 the documents and all, you. did not put anything in writing,

- 2' '

= relating to conditions?

'

3 A That letter specifically dealt with the air waybill~

4 Q I think you t6ld us earlier, and I want to carry it ' ..

5 through a little bit further.

6 With regard to tripods, was there any discussion

7 relating to tripods? I think you .told us there were none

8 in December.

9 Was t~ere any discussion relating to tripods and

10 this transaction in January?

11 A Not as I recall.

12 Q How about February or any time thereafter?

'"- 13 ..... ~.

A Well, with who?

'.14 Q Hith Mr. Soghana.lian?

15 I

;.. No. Mr. Soghanalian never discussed tripods with

16 me.

17 Q Did you contact him or anyone relating ~o tripods

18 in this transaction at any ti.me, say after ,January 1, 197 8?

A Yes. 19

20 Q Whom did you contact?

A Mr. Soghanalian. 21

Q Hhy? 22

A Hr. Bigaignon in Paris relatedto me that, after 23

the excuses that had been put forth; one, mechanical difficul y 24

\ -::-? with the aircraftJ two, expiration of an export license;

25

...

267 .

1 three, re-issue of a new export license:- four, l'ortuguese .

- 2 i,,

national bolidays, Mr. Bigaigl)on said that Hr. Soghanalian

3 haq spoken t~ him and mentioned that there was a problem with 4 tripods.

' ..

5 Q What did he tell. you. Mr. Soghanalian told him,

6 personally?

i A Just that there was some problem witb 'tripods.

8 Q ~hat did he say the p;oblem was?

9 A I don't recall that be specific~lly said wbat the

10 proble.m was, but there is a problem witl) tripods; .the

11 acquisition of tripods.

12 Q t-~heo did thi~s conversation between Hr. Soghanal_ian ..

'13 -.... and Hr. Bigaignon al_legedly take place?

14 A I tb.ink sor:le time in February.

15 I

Q Do you ~now whether it was the early part or t.be

16 latter part of February?

17 A Latter part of February. _I'm not sure.

is I can't recal_l the exact date.

19 Q !:1r. Bigaignon immediately .related the i_n.for:mation

20 to you?

~_1

22

A Yes.

Q \1as this the first ti.me you ever heard anything

23 a_bout tripods or a tripod problem in al)y way relating to this

,. 24 (, ... -.:~:: -~~;~;;;'

problem?

A Yes. I hadn't discussed with Hr . Soghanalian any 25

'I OA.U:. GtNDRON'

e e 268

1 probl~rns relating to tripods prior to that.

2 Q or anyone on his behalf?

3 A No.

Q What did you then do after this conversatjon ' . 5 ~ith Mr. Bigaignon?

6 A Well, we considered it was another of Mr. Soghanalian

i lies.

8 Q what did you do, .sir?

9 A I decided to lay the lie by making a formal otfer

10 of tripod avai_labi_lity from the United ~ingdom.

11 Q Had ~r. Bigaignon told you that he could not

12 deliver any of the materials because he could not obtain

tripods?

14 He said there was some difficulty of Mr.

l5 Soghanalian acquiring tripods.

16

17

Q That is all he told you?

Yes. I I 18 Q

Just based upon that,you just went right out and I I

19 tried to find sorne more tripods?

'

20 No. I knew t _hat tripods exi_sted. In fact,

21 .factories -we~ manufacturing them in the United Ki_ngdom.

2_2 Q What did you do in relation to ~he tripods, then?

23 A I made inquiries of prices anddeliveries.

Q Did you find a place where you could get them?

25 A Yes. I knew of a factory that was manufacturing thj"m

I

OA\.t G(NORON

269

1. It was a factory called_ Sidem, s-i-d-e-m._

(P':_?t 2 , ..

Q .can yo~ tell us where tbat is located? .3 A That is in the west co~n~ry, in Bridgew~ter~ 4 Q. l;lhat is the west countr:{?

'. 5 A Bridgewater, Somerset.

6 Q Tbat still does not help me o~t A lot. i Where is that located in the United Kingdom?

8 '/j. In.the west country. '.

9 Q \'lhere would the west co~ntry be in relation .to

10 London?

11 '/j. .Rest 6f London.

12 Q Is that on t_be coast or i_s tbat i_n_land(

:;:;,., 13 I tbin}; it is inla_nd ._

.14 Q ~Hth wnor.l did you deal t_bere? I

15 A I d_idn' t deal with anybody direct_ly tbel:'e.

16 Q Ho\.r did' you find out, then, tbat they .h.ad tripods?

17 A '/j.n acquaintance of' mine, also in the b~si.ness of

18 d~iense material, . advi~ed ~e of that.

' 19

'

20 ;.. '!{r. Borrie.

21 ~ Could' you spell that?

22 A B-o-r-r-i-e.

23 Q Rhere c,n he be l~cated?

( :; .. 24 \, ....... ~

25

A In London.

Q 'Do you .have his full name, bis first 'name?

. ' 010.\.C: GCNORON . --~ - .. ...

270

1 A Mr. c. Borrie. '

., __

.2 Q to~ have ~o ad4ress or anything, just that he ~ can be located in London? 4 ~ l don't have the address tbat 1 would recall 5 of_f the top of my 'memory .

6 Q ~~t yo~ can obtain it for us? 7 .-~ "ies.

8 Q Did_ you check with any place else_ on the l-1.3

9 tripo~s or just strictly a conversation ~ith Mr. ~orrie? 10 ~- It was strictly a conversation with Mr. Borrie.

'11 Q Did yo~. ever try to get an export li9ense .for

12 tripods or anything li~e that from London?

::~~. 13 A "io~ can't ~et an ~8port license witho~t an

,14 End-User certi.ficate, but- when we arrived, we were advised

15 an export license co~ld be issued.

16 Q Did you eqer get an End-User certificate or follow

17 up any f.urther th_an that? ,.,.

18 A Mr. Soghanalian had tbe End-User'certificate.

19 Q Did yo~ do an_ytbing else relating to tripods '

20 ~fter you talked to Mr. Borri~?

21 A Not t6at I recall.

22 Q Did you ma~e arrange_ments on price or anythiv.g

23 like .that as to tripods?.

t 24 I

:; .

.. ~l; 25

A The price was quoted.

Q ftho quoted the price?

..

1

2 'I. -

3

4

5

6

' 7

8

9

10

11

12

" '

13 f

..14

1S

16

17

18

19

.20

21

22

2~

,. ; .. 24 \ :. ;.~~

25

271_

e. A Mr. Borrie.

Q Do you }l_ave anything i%) w-~i ting to documei).t thai:

or strictlt a verbal converation?

~ It was strictly a verbal conversation.

Q Hhat did you do a_fte~ he quoted you the price? a ija~ing gotte%) the information, I decided to lay

the lie ai).d: advi_se ~-~ Soghana_lian o _f the a~ailabilit_y of

tripods.

Q So what did you do?

A ~- Tele~ed. _I cabled him. Q Is_ that: cab_le, Tele~, this_ one .(indicatii).gl_?

l;;e can_ -use _your copy, I t _hin_K ._

~ -Yes.

!-1.~ ~I C HHA_N : ' Ms. Reporter, would you _go ~bead

~I).d ~a~k this, if you will.

[Nhere~pon, a threg-page document was marked

as Defenda_I).t'' s Ex_hibit 20 for identificat;C?n.)_ Q' pid you recei~e any response to that Tele& or

telegram?

~ No.

Q Do _you bave _any further co~respondence or ai).y

otber follow-up on that after ~hat?

A No.

Q Otber than what is set fort}) i%) here, did you

~.ri . .. ~ .;,._ . .:; th .1 . ...... . _ ., __ -J- .... ~~ .... .._ ~ .._ OAI._C: GC:ND~ON

272

1 check on any specific details relating to the tripods or

-- 2 { anything else as to what they involved or packing or crating

3 or anything of that kind?

4 A Well, :it was..- 'a package advice, but that was ;. ~

5

6 Q Was that information forwarded to Mr. Sogha~alian?

7 A I think he was advised of that.

8 Q Did you receive any response to that?

9 A .As I recall, .no.

10 Q Was there any difference in price with regard

11 to those tripods and the tripods that were being supplied to

12 you under the original alleged contract?

h 13 A I think there was a slight difference in price.

14 I'n not guite sure. I can't recall. I

15 Q Can you tell us what the price was on .those

16 tripods, as to what it was going to cost you per tripod?

17 A That was the cost. That \ ... as the cost of, the tripod.

18 Q Hhat was? Nhat is set- out here? ~

19 A Yes.

20 Q So when youwere asking for a iefund of $151,690,

'

21 that is exactly what it was going to cost you?

A Yes. 22

23 Q Do you have any documentary evidence of that

( 24 .....

or is that strictly verbal?

A It- is verbal. 25

..

27~

1 Q - e f f d ,e h 17 Would you identi y De en ants- E~ l.b~t , 2 , sir. ~bat is that?

\ ~ ~ A A letter from Banque Bru,;:elles Lambert .

4 Q At or about the date that_ appears on 'there?

5 .A Yes.

6 Q -Are 'the figures_ on there correct, to the best of .

-i your knowledge?

8 A Yes.

9 Q There is a reference on there to a pa~ment of

10 $93,800 to Mr._ Bigaignon. Did he receive tbat mon.ey?

11 A Yes.

12 Q .How Has that f_igure_ arri_ved at?

.. 13 * A 'I'bat was a fee.

14 Q How did you decide what the f_ee was going to be,

15 I

to that _figure of $93,800, which _is a rat_her od~ numbe_r?

16 A i\Tel_l 1 I got }lis ad vices that tbat_ is what be

17 would charge .

18 '' Q Before the transactioi:l was entered into or

19 at tbe conclusion of ~t?

A Before thetransaction was entered into. 20 - .

Q tn other \.;ords 1 when th_is whole thing was set up 21

22 wa~ back when he said, "I wi_ll do all of 'tbese things for

23 you, but my fee is $93,800M?

A He appro~i~ately said it would be in that region "

274

1 Investments and paid ...

--~ 2 Q When was your figure reached with Mr. Bigaignon 3 as.to ~hat amount or even the range of that amount? When 4 did you discuss it with him and decide upon it?

5 A When the contract was finalized.

7B 6 Q Are you talking about a contract with Hauritania?

7 A . Yes, when the contract with Mauritania was

8 finalized.

9 Q Up until that point when that contract was

10

11

finalized, you had no specific arrangements to pay him

for his efforts relating to this. ls that correct?

anythir

12 A That's correct.

,, t'.'/.'. 13 Q What is Defendants' 18?

,14 A A document passed to me by my lawyers.

15' Q You have no personal knowlAdge of the matters or

16 in!orrnation contained therein?

17 A No. ''

18 Q What is Defendants' 19?

' 19 A A telegram to Mr. Soghanalian.

20 Q Was that sent at or about the date that appears

21 there?

22 A Yes.

23 Q Did you receive any ~eply to that telegram?

{ ~u 24 .... ~t

25 Q Where there is a reference in there t~ proceeding

A Not that I can recall.

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275

1 e e

for writ of attachment, did yo~ proceed for a writ of ... -. 2 ---

\ -~T 3

attachment, as referred to therein?

A No, not in the event of my lawyers in_ Portugal

4 deciding against a civil writ.

5 0 They decided a

276

1 A Yes.

Q Do you know why arbitration was not demanded in

3 ' this case? Was it simply a decision on the part of counsel?

4 A No. I don't know why.

5 MR. RICHMAN: For the ~ecprd, let .rne go into

6 a couple of other areas where I assume there m~y be ..

7 instructions not to answer.

8 Q , With regard to the earlier transactions with

9 the Country of Mauritania, can you tell us where the goods

10 for those transactions originated? In other word~, from

11 what country were they?

12

,...... 13

14

15

16

17

18

19 20

21

.22

23

24

25

Z.:1_R. ANDREWS: Hould you repeat that again?

MR. RICHMAN: We are talking about the two earlier

transactions to whichMr. Ralph has testified, relating I

to Mauritania prior to the transactions involved in

this case.

Q MY question is: Where did the goods--whatever it

was that was s~ipped in those transactions;-originate?

A I don't recall.

Q Can you tell us who got the licensing in either of

those two cases?

l1R. ANDREWS: I object to it- and instruct hi_m not to answer.

MR. RICHMAN: Certify that question.

Q Can you tell us whether either of those two shipmen~ s

04LC: GtloCDI'ION

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. 22

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277

involved_ .-SQ calibre; machine guns, the H:BM2 's, the two

prior ones?

MR. ANDREWS: You can answer that.

A. Not to my }(nowl edge. Q can~ou tell us ~ny other transactions in which

;(ou have been involved, in which you supplied HB~t2. 50

calib~e machine guns?

' MR. ANDREf'i'S: Objection. :oo not answer that. M~.- RICHM]l.~: Certify that- question.

Q You have not yet tol~ Us wbat telepbone conver~

sations you have discussed at- all were monito~ed by anyone.

Are we to assume none were monitored?

~ Ye~. l did say if tbere was a monitored telephone

conversation, l would advise .you. - ..

Q So none_ of tbe_ teJephone conversations at- all

to ":b_ich you testi_f ied were monitored--is that correct--to

tbe best of your recollection?

A To the best of ~y ~ec6llec~ion./ Q t'lere tbere any tele_phone conversations in t_hi_s:

case about which youhave not told us_ that _rel_ate to these

transactions tb~t you tnow were monitored?

A l can't recall

Q You do .not recall any at- a_ll?

A I don't recall

Q In tbe affidavit you f_i_led relating to jurisdiction

~ Bti'IT u -TOM

,:AI,_OP-(AN ~ 1.~1>49AA-01 OAL_( G(NOAON

~ 7~ ~

278

1 in this case, I want to direct your attention to Paragraph.

~: .. 2 \

_:;;;~

3

6 and Paragraph 7.

Would you just take a moment and read it?

4 A Yes.

5 Q There is a statement to the~effect that these

6 events have been confirmed by R.!-1. l'lilliams to me personally,

7 in Paragraph 7.

8 , When did Mr. Williams personally confirm to you

9 the matters that appear in Paragraph 6?

10 A When Mr. Williams returned with the amendments.

.,, Q So whatyou had reference to were the discussions

12 with Mr. Williams back in Brussels?

.~ :.:.i:. 13 A Evidently, yes, inAntwerp.

14 Q With regard to your counter-counterclaim, there is

15 I

an allegation to the effect in Paragraph 12A that the

16 partial delivery of merchandise was not as specified in

17 the agreement nor the letter of credit, in that it was not

18 of new manufacture.

19 r.m. ANDREWS: Show i-t to him so he can see what

20 you are talking'about.

.

21 MR. RICHMAN: Go ~head and look at that.

22 Q With regard to that allegation, Mr. Ralph, did

23 you suffer any damages?_

A They did not repeat the order. ;~;~~; 24 ( Q Did they ever tell you that that was the reason

25 ...

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5

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( :t:~ 24 25

e e 279 that they were not repeating the order?

A That was the indication given to me.

Q When .YOU say .that was the indication, I would like

you now to be very specific.

Who gave you that indication?

A Mr. Bigaignon.

Q When did Mr. Bigaignon give you that indication?

A During the course of the non-delivery of the

second contract~

Q More specifically, then, did you ever ta.lk to any

representative of the Mauritanian Government who gav~ you

some information, or is all your information on that point

conveyed to you by Hr. Bigaignon?

A Conveyed to me by Hr. Bigaignon. I

Q so he had been the only one to have any )

280

1 Q There was nothing in the contract or written

-2 documents, to your knowledge, that characterized the words

3 "new manufacture" as meaning up until two years old?

4 That was strictly verbal. Is that correct?

5 A That is the general meaning applied, unaged

6 ammunitiol}. That is a NATO specification .

7 Q That is a NATO specification? 8

A NATO terminology, yes.

9 Q Do you know anyone, besides yourself, who could

10 support that or back it up?

11 A An expert \'

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281

ever relate to you that they were upset, they couldn't

use the 5,000 mortar rounds?

A No.

Q. How did the Mauritanian Government find out what

you have said, to the effect that they were more than two

years old?

A Mr. Soghanalian told me at the Estoril Sol Hotel

in September, that they were 1973 pro~uction and I had at that time informed the .Hauritanian Governmel)t that they were

1973 production.

Q At the time you informed the .Hauritanian

Government of that, did you do it directly or through Mr.

Bigaignon?

A Through Mr. Bigaignon. I

Q Did you offer, through Mr. Bigaignon, to the

uauritanian Government to make any kind of adjustment _'in the price as a result of that?

A No.

Q Did you request of Mr. Soghanalian that there be

any adjustment in the price with regard to his contract as

a result of that?

A No.

Q You then make an allegation in'Paragraph 12 about,

to the effect that freight charges, invoice to plaintiff

was false and fradulent in that there was no relocation

CALC: G[NORON

282_

1 charg:es incurred or involved from Hiami to -L.isbon, utili_zi_ng . '

~= 2. the aircraft N7ll-UT. ( _;:;-' 3 Can . you tell us anY facts that suppo~t that

4 allega~ion~ .of ~hich30~ bave knowledge? -'5 :~ Mr. Holcomb trild me tbat -the .aircraft did no~ 6 go to . Haine. . It was in_ Athens_ all_ tbe time.

:i o_ Do :~ou have any other in_formation, other than_ 8_ that stateme~t from M~. Holcomb?

9 A_ No.

10 Q . Is that the extent of you~ il);or_mation--.

11 A_ Yes.

12-, Q. --to sUpport that?

,~ .. :;;::. 13 A Yes : (

'14 !-1_R. RICHM_Atr: Let us_ take abqut: a _literal five--

15 r:\inute. 1brea_k.

16 [_Recess taken.-}

17 !:1~. ~-RICHMAN: _Let me_ just ask a_ few que~_tion_s

18 ' and .t _hen .we wil_l take a qUick .break -a_nd talk among

fg - counsel~ before .we f i _l)ish up.

2() Q t~ith regard t? _. the 5,000 rounds of the 81. mm

21

0

mortars that were. del_ivered, do ~ou have . . al)t information to

22. indicate_ that the lot, the overal_l 'lot t _})_at- was delivered,

.~ 23 was diffe_rent from what Captain Anne h_ad seen physicai_ly when

::::::: 24 ' ( ; .... 25

ha made ~s inspection?

A_ No.

'

283

1 Q Do you know hO\-: much time Captain Anne spent the:t;"e

in Portugal making his inspection?

3 A Approxi~ately half an hour.

4 Q Are you certain that he was there only a half an

5 nour?

6

'i

A

Q

I couldn't be exact, but in that sort of time span.

Do you know he made only one trip there in that

8 half an hour? Do you know he made only one trip to inspect,

g which was that half an hour, approxi~ately?

10 A As l understand, yes.

11 Q Were you physically present to know how lo:qg he

12 was there?

;:::::. '13 A Yes. I was there, too.

14 Q Were you looking at the mortar rounds yourself?

15 A Yes.

16 Q How many boxes were there?

17 A Ne didn't count the~.

Q How many boxes did you actually~physically observe?

A Nell, I didn't count t_hem.

20 Q How many rounds did you look at? Did you look at

21 more than one round?

A Ne looked at four. 22

23 Q Were they in all different boxes?

A All in one box. 24

Q Were all the boxes the same? 25

OALE (l[NOAON

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284

A Yes.

Q Did they all bear the same date on the outside?

A Yes.

Q How many boxei did you then look at, approximately?

A Well, we were met by a mountain of boxes and the

symmetry of the printing on the boxes was identical, 77,

77, 77. It would have stood out very clea~ly if one box had been 78,,because the igures on it would have been

dif.ferent.

Q Hith regard to those mortar rounds that _you were

involved in there, when were you paid in relation to.the

rounds, i .n relation to delivery, before or afte.r?

A At the approximate time of delivery.

Q As a matter of fact, was there not a delay? Did I

the delivery not take place some days after you actually got

paid?

A Yes, but we weren't advised of that at the time.

Q Was Mr. Bigaignon directly involved in tbe delivery

A Yes. We weren't advised that there would be a

delay. He were told ' th.a~ they \-lould be leaving immediately. .

Payment had been received.

Q You had your money at that point? A The instruction--- The payment \-las executed through

the bank a.nd the drafts were issued in accordance with Hr.

Soghanalian's instructions for payment of this material.

0"\.C GC:NDAON

285

1 Q Then, was th