let's talk bitcoin, episode 43, "speculative, but foundational"

8/12/2019 Let's Talk Bitcoin, episode 43, "Speculative, but Foundational"

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Episode 43 - Speculative, but Foundational

Participants:

Adam B. Levine (ABL) – Host

Andreas M. Antonopoulos (AA) – Co-hostStephanie Murphy (SM) – Co-hostMichael Hill (MH) - LMB Holdingsanny Bre!ster (B) - LMB Holdings

Push Button Bitcoin (Washing Machines !i"uid #ispensers$

%B!: Hi" and !elcome to #pisode $% o& Let's al Bitcoin" a t!ice-!eely sho! a*outthe ideas" people and pro+ects *uilding the ne! digital economy and the &uture o&money. ,isit us at !!!.letstal*itcoin.com &or our daily guest *log" all our pastepisodes and o& course" tipping options. My name is Adam B. Levine and today's sho!

is Speculative" *ut oundational. Bitcoin is a technology so ne! that many *asic coreelements that are reuired &or common use" simply don't e/ist0 and !e start the sho!taling a*out !ashing machines" paring meters and Andy Schroeder's liuiddispensing pro+ect. hen" 1 catch up !ith Michael Hill and anny Bre!ster" on theire/citing Bitcoin *an and payment card pro+ect in Cyprus" and ho! they !ant to turnCyprus into a *right *eacon o& Bitcoin opportunity. urning to more serious topics and&ollo!ing a recent scandal at echCrunch isrupt" 1'm +oined *y Andreas and Stephanyto discuss discrimination in male dominated industries. Andreas maes a pledge not toattend con&erences lacing policies to deal !ith such things" and !e &inish up !ith a tala*out hiring practices. hans to those you !ho have purchased video con&erencepasses" !e're very e/cited to provide this service and have another !ay to raise the

&unds to po!er the sho!. 1& you haven't already pre-ordered your pass in *itcoins" visit !!!.*itcoinvideopass.com and see ho! easy *uying in Bitcoin can *e. #arly *irdprices end soon2 hans &or listening" and en+oy the sho!. 3456%78

%B!: 9e spent a lot o& time taling a*out ho! Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies are in areally nascent stage" really" really early in the li&ecycle" and so a lot o& things you !oulde/pect to e/ist" in &act don't" *ecause no*ody's *othered to mae them yet. 1n the lastcouple o& !ees" 1've gotten to no! a &e! di&&erent guys and their pro+ects and 1 !antedto tae the opportunity to sort o& start taling a*out this. he topic *roadly" 1'm calling:ush Button Bitcoin. 1t's these devices providing inter&ace *et!een real !orld stu&& andBitcoin" and cryptocurrency *roadly speaing. here are a couple pro+ects. he &irst

one is Morgan ;oc!ell out o&" 1 thin he's in ,ancouver. He's !oring on a Bitcoin !ashing machine" *ut it's not +ust a*out a !ashing machine. #ssentially" !hat he'sdesigned" again" it's this inter&ace that" essentially" you send *itcoin to0 it has a littlescreen" it has an address that it gives you and it tells you ho! much to send and then"once that amount has *een received" it's appropriate &or !hatever it's trying to do0 thenit presses a *utton. 1t can press a *utton &or a set length o& time i& there's somethingthat only operates !hile it's *eing pressed or0 it can *asically activate things. Heenvisions using it in laundromats !here0 there are no" there are no dollars" there is no

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change that needs to have armored cars come pic it up. 1nstead you +ust go to thelaundromat" you send your &raction o& a *itcoin to it and there you go" it turns on andyou've got your solution there. 34<6=78

%%: >uic e/planation *ecause as a non-American 1 have to tell you a laundromat is a

very American thing. 34%64$8

%B!: ?h 2 34%64$8

%%: A laundromat is a commercial esta*lishment &ull o& !ashing machines and dryers" !here you can go i& you don't have one in your home" and you can deposit money to !ash and dry your clothes. oesn't e/ist every!here" +ust letting you no!. 34%65@8

%B!: 1 actually had no idea. 1 have never used a laundromat *ut 1 did not no! they !ere a S phenomenon. mm so... 34%6<58

SM: 1 haven't either *ut 1 have used in apartment comple/ sometimes they'll have apay machine that's lie" +ust &or the *uilding. 34%6<8

%%: es" in other places" especially in #urope at least" it !as only in student dorms thatyou !ould &ind that ind o& thing. But yeah still" even in student dorms" 1 thin that's agreat application &or vending machines" and student services and... laundry. 34%6$48

SM: Detting those rolls o& uarters !as the !orst... (Laughter) 34%6$%8

%%: #/actly2 34%6$$8

%B!: 9ell" and it's also *ad &or the *usiness o!ner too *ecause then they have to taeall those rolls o& uarters that people have spent" !ith them" and someho! get them toa *an" !hich means that you can *e ro**ed0 and 1 mean again" there are lie all o&these things that add to the cost o& doing *usiness that i& you don't have tangi*le moneythat actually can *e stolen &rom your esta*lishment" it sort o& &i/es that pro*lem. o alesser e/tent" this is also true o& one o& the other areas that Morgan's looing out !iththis pro+ect6 paring meters" !here you no!" you par and then again" 1.. 1 thin this not

+ust S" so correct me i& 1'm !rong here" you put in a couple o& coins into the paringmeter and then you have a set amount o& time. he pro*lem is" is that these machinescan *rea and they have mechanisms" !here things can get stuc" and they can *estolen *ecause they can +ust *e cut o&& and" you can tae the !hole thing !ith you. 9ithBitcoin again" there's nothing to tae so... there are advantages there. 34$6%58

%%: All o& these are e/amples o& payment systems that primarily operate !ith coins" sosmall denomination payments. 1& they do operate !ith notes" that's relatively rare0 andmost o& these don't have credit card machines" and the primary reason is o& course" thecost o& the transactional &ee that goes !ith each o& these. 1t's a per&ect niche &or Bitcoinisn't itE 34$6=%8



%B!: ?nce you get to a place o& adoption it is" *ut again you have lie this chicen-eggpro*lem !here it almost doesn't mae sense to develop it" until you've got the maret*ut you can't have the maret until you've developed the application so... 1 thin thatpro+ects lie Morgan is undertaing are really important *ecause yes" they arespeculative" *ut they're &oundational. hese are technologiesF again" !hat's he doingE

He is essentially created something that's an inter&ace to push a *utton0 *ut still" theimplications" i& you play it out" are enormous. 34=6578

SM: eah" e/actly. hat's going to mae people's lives easier" and 1 thin people reallyappreciate !hen you mae their lives easier. 1 !as +ust picturing" &or instance" !hat i&there !as a *ar or lie a co&&ee shop or something" that had up at the *ar a Bitcoinvending machine and ne/t to it" a Bitcoin soda machine0 so lie you could may*e putcash in" get some *itcoins on your phone and then &or the ne/t month or so" you'd *ea*le to 3audio *roen8 >; code ne/t to a soda machine and get a soda !ith your*itcoins that you +ust *ought. hat !ould *e really cool and it !ould provide a !ay toget around the cash issue and the soda machine could *e much smaller i& it operated

!ith something lie Bitcoin. he possi*ilities are +ust endless and especially i& it's paired !ith a uic and easy !ay &or people to get *itcoins. 1t evens increases it more"especially during the adoption phase !here people having trou*le getting *itcoinssometimes. 34@6558

%%: Adam" do you no! i& the plat&orm used &or this pro+ect !as something lie anArduino or ;asp*erry:i" or something lie that. 1'd *e interested in the possi*ilities o&others using em*edded micro-electronics to do Bitcoin stu&&. 34@6<=8

%B!: 1 don't no! the speci&ic hard!are that he's !oring on" *ut 1 do no! that it is*ased o&& o& Arduino...

%%: :er&ect2 34@6%58

%B!: ...and that it is an open source plat&orm. 1'm not sure i& his pro+ect is &ully opensource" 1'm not clear on that0 *ut he has *een developing his initial prototypes on thatplat&orm. 1t's great *ecause the *arrier to entry there" to +ust create something andmae sure it's going to !or" is so small that again" you can leverage this. he cost todo it is uite lo!" even though it's very speculative. 34@6$G8

%%: 1 thin that intersection o& micro-electronics" ind o& hacer spaces and micro-payment !ill *e very interesting. 34@6=@8

%B!: A*solutely" and !e've already seen.. 1 mean" Morgan's pro+ect is certainly animportant one and he's *een !oring on it &or a *it longer 1 guess than this other one. 1spoe !ith Andy Schroeder the other day. He's !oring on a Bitcoin &luid dispenser andhe has a <4 minute video up that !e're going to lin in the sho!notes !hen 1 run thatintervie!0 that essentially sho!s this entirely porta*le diesel dispensing system that is*ased o&& o& this design that he has. ou go to a gas station and you !ant to *uy gas.ou have t!o options generally speaing6 you can either put in a credit card or a de*it



card and then it'll essentially de*it" tae money o&&" and increase your *ill and in the endo& it" it charges you0 or you can go into and tal to the cash register attendant" give themsay $4 *ucs or <4 *ucs" !hatever you !ant to put on to it" go *ac out" &ill up your carand then" once you're done i& you have change" then you go *ac and you get thechange. 9ith this Bitcoin &luid dispenser" say 1 have an idea o& ho! much 1 !ant and 1

thin it's going to cost me $4 *ucs !orth o& *itcoin. 9ell" i& 1 !ind up spending %4*ucs !orth o& *itcoin" in order to get the amount o& gas that 1 !anted to get" thenautomatically" once my transaction is completed" the remainder is sent *ac to the sameaddress that it came &rom. 1t's very" very similar to having a cash transaction !ith theattendant inside" e/cept you have all o& the convenience o& +ust doing it at the pump lieyou !ould !ith the credit card. hat's something that initially is *eing applied to &uel"and 1 thin that it has a lot o& interesting implications in the !orld o& &uel and &ueldispensing *ut" it could also *e applied to any sort o& liuid. ou could apply youno!F Stephanie you mentioned a soda. 1 !as thining a*out a dra&t *eer machine" orsomething lie that. Det those *ig +ugs o& !ater" things lie that. here's this entire listo& things that you can do using the same type o& inter&ace. 3476%G8

%%: o our previous conversation" 1 hope he has the a*ility to set it to measure inmilliliters and liters" &or internationaliation purposes0 *ecause uite honestly" no oneelse in the !orld understands !hat on earth you're taling a*out !ith these I&lo'sJ andIo'sJ and Ilmp'sJ and gallons. Since you can't get your metric together" 1 hope he's gotan inter&ace in there &or the rest o& the !orld !ho did get their metric together. 34G64@8

%B!: 1 thin that's a relatively easy part o& the pro*lem to solve. 34G64G8

SM: 1 really lie this idea a*out the Bitcoin &luid dispenser" *ecause it really automatesthat ind o& !or. Ko longer !ould *artenders have to sit there and &ill up a glass o&coe *y pressing a *utton and potentially pressing the !rong *utton or !hatever" andspending their time to do that. 1t could all +ust run o&& o& Bitcoin. 9hen you pay a certainamount" you get a certain amount o& liuid and that's maing li&e easier" hey2 34G6%=8

%%: 1 thin that pro*a*ly speas to a *roader opportunity here &or various types o&micro-electronic devices to *ring Bitcoin into to the real !orld" and allo! you to dovarious &orms o& counting" measuring or dispensing &luids" o& solids" o& discrete units o&electricity" or !hatever else it might *e. 34G6==8

SM: :otentially" this could even *e a !ay to mae these things cheaper *ecause" !hena human *eing doesn't have to spend their time i.e." on the cloc" dispensing liuids" or

!hatever you're dispensing" then may*e those savings could *e passed on to theconsumer. 3546548

%B!: 1t's a dou*le-edged s!ord in a !orld !here !e increasingly have less service-oriented +o*s. his is something !here" as !e move more and more into an automated&uture" and certainly that's !hat Bitcoin is" as sort o& a programma*le &orm o& money asit's recently *een called" it sort o& leads us to. A lot o& these service +o*s don't really



%B!: 9hen !e spoe last" you !ere getting ready to head to Cyprus and you !ere inDreece at the time. 9hat !as the initial e/perience lie" trying to introduce theseconcepts to people" *ecause again" lie you said" the *aning system" the central*aning system has &ailed0 and yet" 1 don't thin that there's any tal a*out anything lie

leaving the #uro and taing *ac control o& the currency locally" is thereE 35=6=<8M): 9ell" there !ere certain politicians that tried to popularie the idea o& getting out o&the #uro and may*e reissuing the pound" *ut uicly those discussions +ust ceased" youno!" they +ust stopped. Ko*ody considers it a via*le option &or Cyprus and" certainly"there is no politician gunning &or that option right no!. he mood in Cyprus right no!that !e really have no choice" !e have to stay in the #uro0 !e have to &ollo! thedecisions &rom the #uro group and the roia. o a lot o& people" !hen !e come outand say - Loo" there's another alternative. 9e can start using Bitcoin. :eople need to*e educated &or sure" a*out Bitcoin. 9e need more Dree language content" moremeetings on the ground here in Cyprus" more person to person tals !ith merchants"*usiness people" consumers. hat's ho! !e're getting things done. 1t's a relatively

slo! process" certainly a lot slo!er than may*e a lot o& people !ould lie *ut" !e'remaing sure and steady steps to ensure that this *usiness !ill *e a success on thismaret. 35@6=$8

%B!: 9hen !e &irst spoe" you had the idea a*out &ocusing on education and trying to*ring a!areness" *ut the pro+ect that you guys have gro!n into involves a couple o&di&&erent *usinesses. irst one is" 1 thin the one that everything is *uilt o&& o& is calledK#?. Can you tell us a little a*out that annyE 3564G8

#B: eah" sure. K#? is going to provide *ric and mortar *ranches around the island"so people can o*tain Bitcoin in the most easy !ay" in the !ay that they are used todealing !ith a &inancial institution and" !e're going to mae it really accessi*le. 9e'llgive them a !allet that !e loo a&ter the security &or" and also !e remove all thecomple/ities &rom Bitcoin in its ra! &ormat that mysel&" Michael and pretty much all o&your listeners are used to dealing !ith" so it's common &or them" *ut the average man or

!oman in the street are some!hat put o&& *y the comple/ities o& Bitcoin. As soon asyou start taling to them" you can see them s!itch o&& !ithin %4 seconds o& mentioningthe !ord cryptography. 9e're looing to remove all o& that" tae care o& it all and letthem use Bitcoin in a !ay that suits their means *est. 356=8

%B!: 9hat does that loo lieE 1 guess 1 have t!o uestions here. irst o&&" !hen !e're taling a*out *ric and mortar locations" are these locations !here you'repartnering !ith an e/isting *an to provide Bitcoin services" or is this a *usiness entirelydevoted to this K#? concept o& Bitcoin *aningE 35765%8

#B: es" !e're opening our o!n K#? *ranches around the island. 357658

M): 9e're starting &rom scratch *asically. #verything's &rom scratch" you no!" &reshly*aed lie momma used to do. 3576<<8



#B: he &irst one6 it's your Bitcoin address. A 3gar*led audio6 %$E8 character ey" toloo at it" compared to an 7-digit account num*er that you'd get !ith a traditional *an0a*solutely every*ody that 1've spoen to pre&ers the 7-digit account num*er. 9e'regoing to *e changing *ehaviours" *ut not changing them too &ast *ecause" i& you try and

en&orce too much change too uicly" people +ust re+ect it. 9e're going to let theminteract !ith us ho! they do their normal traditional *an so !e can mae that changeslo!ly over a period o& time. 3<56$78

%B!: Let me +ust tae a guess here. 9hat you're going to do is you're going to givethem an account num*er thatNll *e !ith K#? and then" that'll *e connected to one ormultiple Bitcoin addressesE 3<56=78

#B: es" in the *ac-end" !e're going to *e using multiple-signature addresses" so i&the account holder !as to suddenly pass a!ay or anything" the heirs to that money cano*tain the *alance &rom that !allet0 and also" should !e &ail as a *usiness" through

another %rd legal party" they can provide the t!o private eys to gain access to that !allet. #ven i& !e're not here as a *usiness anymore" people could still their moneyout. 3<<6<@8

%B!: Both parties turn their eys at the same time and there are three eys out therethat !or. 3<<6%48

#B: es. 3<<6%48

%B!: hat sounds lie an interesting !ay to remove a lot o& the comple/ity !ithoutremoving any o& the limitations. he multi-sig ey thing is a really interesting !ay to goa*out that. 1t's lie people are partnering !ith you to secure their &unds *ecause ontheir o!n they lac the a*ility to do that and on your o!n you don't have the a*ility to dothat and still mae it availa*le to them in a !ay that they need it to *e availa*le. 1 thinthat's an interesting solution &or that. 3<<6=%8

#B: es" plus it also removes the possi*ility o& us &ailing and the customer's moneydisappearing at the same time0 and also" it protects their sons'" daughters'"grandchildren's inheritance so they can al!ays access those coins. he contract that

!e have !ith %rd party" !e'll mae it pu*licly no!n !ho that %rd party is once the &inaldecision has *een made. hat contract *et!een ourselves !ill ensure that !e cannot

+ust tae a customer's money. All they can do is" at the reuest o& the customer" or inthe presence o& a death certi&icate" provide access to that !allet. 3<%6<G8

%B!: his interlocs !ith your other system !hich is called B## and" B## seems tome to *e ind o& lie a transaction net!or" is that rightE 3<%6%8

#B: es" it's our version o& ,isa or Mastercard. he name !as taen *ecause thepresident at the time o& the *ail-ins" !as taling a*out a plan B that he never really had.



9e've called the net!or B## as in plan B" and also !e can slide the Bitcoin logo intothe B## logo as !ell. 3<%6=@8

M): And also *ecause everyone loves *ees" 1 guess. 3<%6=G8

#B: 9ith B##" it !ill allo! our customers to access their &unds through a net!or o&merchants. 9e can provide almost instant settlements and" much" much lo!ertransaction &ees" in comparison to the monopoly holder here" in Cyprus" that providespayment gate!ays. Because o& that monopoly holder" e-commerce hasn't taen o&& inCyprus as it has on pretty much every other country in the !orld. 3<$6<$8

M): 1 !ould also add that the payment net!or also ans!ers the very &reuentuestion o&6 ? !hat can i do !ith *itcoinsE 1n the Bitcoin meetings people are saying -?O" say that 1 *uy a *itcoin" 1 mean !ho's going to accept itE Ho! do 1 use itE his

!ould *e an o*vious ans!er. 9e're planning on initially launching !ith a net!or o& a5444 merchants in Cyprus that !ill accept the B## payment net!or. ?nce !e have

that in place" it'll *e a lot easier to convince people to deposit their money !ith K#? andto use the payment net!or card. 3<$6=78

%B!: Have you *een taling to merchants a*out that yetE 3<=6448

#B: es2 1 really !ish that 1 could give the *ig *loc*uster ne!s" *ut !e're +ust !aitingto sign the contracts on the second one" *ut 1 can guarantee you it !ill mae a &e!headlines !ithin Bitcoin. 3<=6558

M): es" and also" 1 can say that a lot o& people here in Kicosia" a lot o& merchants liesmall shop o!ners" or +ust convenience store o!ners" something lie that0 they're veryinterested in this" especially !ith the lo! transactions &ees and the instant paysettlements. 1 mean" those t!o are +ust so o*vious advantages to them" they'repractically sold right no!" 1 !ould say. 3<=6%$8

%B!: rom the user's perspective" !hat does a B## transaction loo lieE 1s it lie ade*it card transactionE 3<=6$48

#B: o use the B## net!or" !e're going to *e using #M, chip and pin systems" *ut !e're also adding a second layer o& authentication *ecause Bitcoin *eing irreversi*leand instantaneous" !e need to ensure that a card and :1K cannot +ust *ecomecompromised" as it is !ith a traditional *an. 9hat !e've added in is &ingerprinttechnology so it doesn't slo! do!n transaction time. here are other !ays do it *utpeople in Cyprus" there isn't a great maret penetration o& Smartphone users as thereare on other parts o& the !orld. he easiest !ay &or us to do it" is through &ingerprinttechnology and the chip and :1K system. o compromise the card" they need to cut theperson's &inger o&& and" get the :1K num*er and the card to *e a*le to use it in the store.?nline !e're going to *e introducing &or *oth our online account management servicesand &or online card purchases" !e're going to use a chip and :1K smart card reader"

!hich is very common in the O and it has reduced the losses to online *aning &raud



drastically" since the introduction o& these. 1t provides once the customer's put the cardinto the reader" entered the :1K num*er" provided the response codes on the screen"

!hich !ill then provide the customer !ith a num*er that they must respond into thesystem !ith" to add another layer o& authentication. 3<64@8

%B!: his is t!o-&actor authentication !here you have a little point o& sale card readerdevice plugged into your computer. 3<65<8

#B: 1t's not much *igger than a credit card itsel&. Almost all the *ans in the nitedOingdom use them" and they have had really high success rates o& reducingcompromised accounts online. 3<6<%8

%B!: 1t's much sa&er. 3<6<$8

#B: eah. 3<6<=8

%B!: 9hat's the catchE Kot speci&ically !ith the card reader" *ut !ith your pro+ect ingeneral. 9hat are the riss and dangers you're still trying to overcomeE 3<6%<8

#B: he *iggest one is the price volatility !ith Bitcoin. hat !as a *arrier o& entry toour customers" so !e are going to *e o&&ering pegged accounts. Most o& the currentterms are *eing *rought up &rom !ithin the communities" that lac o& plat&orms to tradeoptions and &utures. 9e've gone out and spoen !ith the operators o& the e/istingplat&orms that have vasts amounts o& liuidity on their plat&orms. he response has*een great. Some o& them are going to *e included in our lo**ying process. ?ne thismorning !as already planning all types o& di&&erent &unds that they could o&&er in Bitcoin"*e&ore 1'd even le&t the room. he response there has *een great. 9e no! that !eneed to get these plat&orms to *e a*le to reduce the ris on ourselves" and that !ill *ean added *ene&it to Bitcoin" *ecause throughout the &orums" the threads" on ;eddit andplaces lie that" people constantly complain that they have a lac o& options in tradingplat&orms" *ecause it's very much restricted to the common three or &our e/changes.9e've gone out there to spea !ith the operators o& these plat&orms" !hich couldincrease the amount o& liuidity and increase the volume in Bitcoin itsel& !ith their o!ne/isting customer *ase0 *ut it also gives people &rom !ithin Bitcoin already" a chance toacuire the services that they've *een looing &or" &or uite a !hile. 3<76=58

%B!: hese aren't conventional Bitcoin e/changes. hey're more lie legacy plat&ormsthat deal !ith traditional ?;#PE 3<76=@8

#B: es" traditional &inancial maret sector" yes. 3<G6448

%B!: And you're partnering !ith them to integrate Bitcoin into their o&&eringsE 3<G64%8

#B: 9e're not essentially partnering !ith them. 9e're selling Bitcoin to them to getthem to introduce it into to their o&&erings. 9e !ill have trading relationships !ith someo& the plat&orm *ecause !e'll need to use them. 3<G65@8



%B!: 1 see. ;ather than trying to *ootstrap locally using only the liuidity availa*le inCyprus" you've gone to the international maret and are using their liuidity to maesure all your local needs are met !hile gro!ing the Cyprus maret. 3<G6<78

#B: es. 3<G6<G8

%B!: ?O" so again" !hat's the catchE 3<G6%<8

#B: rom the outset" 1 set out" !hen 1 !as developing this idea" even *e&ore the*aning &iasco that happened in March and April here. 9hat are the pro*lems &orBitcoin to catch on" on a mass scaleE Comple/ity" cannot spend my money" thevolatility. hrough addressing each one o& those pro*lems it *rought up ne! pro*lems"

!hich have *een !ell documented in the thread and 1've *een una*le that 1 couldn'treally tal a*out it too much. But no!" things have progressed even &urther. 1've *roughtmeetings &or!ard to ensure that 1 could provide more in&ormation than !as previously

envisioned. 9e've gone out and addressed" !e've made the connections !ith theregulators" the la!yers" the accountancy &irms and the people that are !oring in&inance here already. 9e've got all the contacts and most o& them are great on the idea.A lot o& these people have lost out in the *ans already" so they !ant to see analternative. he *iggest part that !e eep getting told *y these people is" you've got tomaret it right" !hich is !hy !e've partnered !ith elia Q :avla" and some o& theactivities that !e've got" Michael !ill *e a*le to tell you a*out" even in more detail. ?ur&irst &or Bitcoin again" !e're advertising on the ," !ith airlines as !ell" airports. 3%46$8

M): 9e're planning a &ull media campaign &or !hen !e launch" &ull :; campaign as !ell. ?rganiing road sho!s and taling to merchants" setting up the net!or and thenadvertising to the general pu*lic a*out K#?. 9e've *een !oring !ith elia Q :avla onthis and they're ready to go. 9e're +ust !aiting &or the right moment to pull the triggeron that. eah" lie you said" you're looing &or the catch here. he &act that you're&inding it hard to &ind a catch" it +ust sho!s ho! much sense this *usiness model maes.1n the conditions that !e're living in right no!" here in Cyprus0 it +ust seems to *e lie theper&ect storm o& events have come together to create this *usiness" and !e're reallycon&ident that it !ill !or. 3%56%<8

#B: here is al!ays ris involved. 1 don't !ant people to thin that !e're ignoring riss.1& Bitcoin !as to catastrophically implodeF there is ris involved" *ut !e've taen stepsto ensure that !e have a contingency plan &or each and every possi*le case scenario.9e are operating on the &ull reserve *asis and" there's a spreadsheet going to *ereleased !hich demonstrates +ust e/actly ho! !e can trade" and people themselves"including yoursel& Adam" can put their &igures in. he spreadsheet is preloaded !ith allthe &igures &rom the height o& the April crash do!n to the lo!est point !hen it crashed=R across t!o days. 9e've already included those &igures" so i& any*ody !ants toadd their o!n &igures" their o!n amount o& deposits" spread them out di&&erently*et!een time *ased accounts and instant access accounts0 they'll *e a*le to do that



and see ho! e/actly our *usiness model operates to ensure that the customer's al!aysgot the correct amount o& *itcoins in their !allet. 3%<6%58

%B!: he &ull reserve *asis is an interesting thing. 9e've seen people tal a*out orattempt Bitcoin *ans *e&ore" *ut you seem &airly &ar along in the process. 9hat's the

ne/t stepE 9hat's reuired to mae this actually happenE 3%<6$<8

#B: he 1:,? !ill start on riday at 5:M #S. 3%<6$@8

%B!: ?O" !hat's an 1:,?E 3%<6$78

#B: 1t's 1nitial :u*lic ,irtual ?&&ering. Many people !ithin Bitcoin re&er to them as an1:? !hich is very much a 9all Street term" *ut !hat !e're o&&ering is essentially"cro!d&unding !ith a pro&it share. 9e !anted to di&&erentiate ourselves &rom thetraditional stoc marets. 1t's not traded on 9all Street" it's traded on Bit&under and it'saccessi*le through BC-C and Haveloc" as !ell. 9ith getting the collective" &rom

!ithin the Bitcoin community" to raise the initial capital reuired to tae all o& thesesteps" things are *eing pretty positive so &ar" *ut 1 don't count my chicen until it's done.3%%6<$8

%B!: 1& you're not using the &ractional reserve model" ho! are you planning to generatethis pro&itE 3%%6<G8

#B: 9hat !e're going to *e doing is removing the negative ris o& the volatility so !henthe price drops !e add more *itcoins to our customers' !allets &rom our o!n reserves0

!hen the price increases" the e/change rate increases !ith Bitcoin" that's !here !emae our pro&its &rom those accounts. 9e do have some time *ased depositsaccounts" *et!een @ and @4 months" !here people can essentially put their money intotheir !allet &or @ months" 5< months" <$. hey'll receive a percentage o& every month'sgro!th and then !e" as K#?" !ill *ene&it &rom the rest *ut !e also provide theprotection against the &alls in the price. hey are o&&ered the potential to earn more asmore as Bitcoin gro!s itsel&. hat also ensures the coins aren't going to *e !ithdra!n&or @" or 5<" or <$ months. 9e're going to *e o&&ering insurance products through acarrier" so !e can *rand the products and that's very much still in the !ors. 9e're not

+ust operating on the *asis that the Bitcoin price is going to go up. 9e are looing to*ring in other additional strings o& income" such as international money remittance"transaction &ees on B## and the :?S rental charge. 9e've tried to *e as &air as !epossi*ly can &or to merchants. he &irst one thousand merchants" !e are removing all*arriers to the adoption" so they're getting &ree transactions and the &ree :?S too. heyhave the added incentive to taling to to their customers to getting them to pay !ithB##" *ecause they don't have to pay %" $" =" up to 54R and they get the money almostinstantly soF 3%=648

%B!: hat sounds lie a really interesting approach. ou're letting people locally useBitcoin !ithout any o& the price &luctuations and you're &unding *y essentially" lettinginvestors speculate on your local customer's *ehal&. our investors are taing on the



price volatility ris" &or *etter or &or !orse" and the people !ho +ust !ant a &unctionaltransaction net!or can use it that !ay. 3%=6<=8

#B: 9hen the *alance in their !allets decreases *ecause each one o& those *itcoins is !orth more" the *alance goes into our reserves. 3%=6%<8

M): hat !ould *e &or accounts pegged in #uros. 1& someone has deposits in *itcoin"o*viously the price &luctuation !on't a&&ect the amount o& *itcoin in there. 3%=6$58

%B!: ;ight" *ut similarly they're not protected &rom the price decreasing and thevolume in their account !ould decrease along !ith it. 3%=6$8

#B: es. 3%=6$78

M): es" yes. 3%=6$G8

#B: 1 e/pect the ma+ority o& our initial customers to tae on the pegged accounts.

3%=6=%8

%B!: Maes sense" it maes it sta*le so you can conduct commerce. 3%=6=@8

#B: es" !e're giving the people the opportunity to use the part o& the Bitcoin protocol !hich *ene&its them the most" and right no! here" the pu*lic &eel is" the ma+ority o& them +ust !ant to protect their money. ollo!ing research that !e've done previously" thema+ority !ould rather put some money a!ay and potentially get a return" *ut no! thatthat money +ust cannot *e taen *y the *an or *y the Dovernment to pay &or some*odyelse's mistaes than get a guaranteed <R over a t!elve month period and not no! i&they're getting that money *ac at the end o& it. 3%@6%58

%B!: 1& someone !ants to learn more and get involved in your pro+ect" !hat are the*est !ays to do thatE 3%@6%@8

#B: he prospectus is availa*le at !!!.lm*-holdings.com. ou can &ind us in theSecurities thread o& !!!.*itcointal.org. 1'm more than approacha*le mysel&" myusername pretty much every!here is CrytpoCyprus. :eople can get in touch !ith me.hose !ho have ased me uestions already have al!ays had a response and 1'llcontinue that as much as my time allo!s. 1 am doing <4 hour days pretty much everyday" *ut 1 am very much !anting to *e open and transparent !ith every*ody andans!er all uestions" concerns !ith regards to the *usiness. 3%64G8

M): As &ar as the general pu*lic is concerned there have *een criticisms a*out thelegality or the regulations surrounding Bitcoin" !hether any &uture regulation !ould *eimposed on Bitcoin. ?& course" !e can't ans!er that" !e don't no!0 *ut anny hassaid &rom the *eginning that !e are going to *e &ully compliant !ith any #CB rules andregulations that may *e introduced in the &uture. 3%6%$8

http://www.lmb-holdings.com/

http://www.bitcointalk.org/

http://www.lmb-holdings.com/

http://www.bitcointalk.org/



#B: But !e are also taing the proactive approach to saying to them that !e'd muchrather tae the &ront &oot and have a say in any &rame!or that is created" or provided"or guidelines that are provided &or Bitcoin *usinesses. 1t's *etter to have some*ody&rom the inside that no!s !hat Bitcoin is and !hat it is capa*le o&0 to have a saydirectly !ith the regulators. hat is something that !e're addressing &rom the start as

!ell. hat !as one o& the concerns &rom the pu*lic" !hen !e spoe to them so that's !hy !e're maing these lo**ying e&&orts as !ell. 3%764=8

%B!: 9ell guys 1'm really e/cited a*out your pro+ect. Loos lie you've got a lot o&traction !ith the idea and" it's a good one. anny and Michael" thans &or +oining me onLet's al Bitcoin. 9e'll catch up !ith you again soon and loo &or!ard to yourcontinued progress. 3%765=8

M): ?O" thans Adam" and hope to see you in Cyrpus some time2 3%76578

%B!: es" some time soon. 3%765G8

#B: Brilliant. 3%76<48

%#&E':

Hi" Stephanie here. 9ould you lie to turn your *oo into an enthralling audio *ooEKeed a persuasive commercial to promote your companyE Ho! a*out a narrator &oryour e/plainer videoE Here's !here 1 can help. 1'm a &reelance voice-over artist andsince <44G" 1've lent my voice to doens o& audio pro+ects. o hear some e/amples o&my !or" chec out my !e*site6 !!!.smvoice.in&o. 1& you lie !hat you hear" 1'd love to*e the voice o& your ne/t pro+ect. Det in touch" at !!!.smvoice.in&o. 3%76$G8

%#&E':

Hi" this ason Oing" &ounder at Sean's ?utpost" and you are listening to Let's alBitcoin. Sean's ?utpost is a homeless outreach in :ensacola" lorida and !e areproudly po!ered *y Bitcoin. o date" over 5%"444 meals have *een &ed to the homelessin our area" all purchased !ith Bitcoin and through the generosity o& the cryptocurrencycommunity. ;ead more a*out us at !!!.seansoutpost.com. ood" shelter" Bitcoin.#very*ody. !!!.seansoutpost.com. 3%G6578

http://www.smvoice.info/



http://www.seansoutpost.com/








%%: his !ee" echCrunch is running the echCrunch isrupt Con&erence and as ishappened many times *e&ore in tech con&erences" there !as a *it o& a controversyaround se/ual harassment and speci&ically some inappropriate content. Ko!" 1 don'treally !ant to get into the argument o& !hat is and isnNt inappropriate content" or ho!inappropriate or ho! not inappropriate the speci&ic content !as. hat's not really the

point. 1 thin the *igger point" at least to me is" technology has a pro*lem andtechnology con&erences specially have a pro*lem !ith attracting people !ho are not !hite male heterose/uals. he pro*lem has a lot to do !ith ho! people" !ho are not !hite male heterose/uals" get treated !hen they do sho! up at these con&erences.?ne o& my pet peeves has *een the &act that a lot o& tech con&erences" still in this dayand age" do not have strong anti-harassment policies" and don't no! ho! to en&orcethem. :art o& the &ailure" and !hat happened at echCrunch isrupt" is really they !erenot prepared &or this" they didn't have any policies in place *e&orehand" they didnNt haveany guidance &or the people participating" they didnNt have any o& !ay o& &ielding andmanaging complaints" they didn't have any !ay o& solving pro*lems !ith en&orcementand so" as a result" they !ere completely unprepared. My concern here is that Bitcoin

!ill &ace a very similar issue. 9e're massively multiplying the num*er o& con&erences.So &ar" 1 have not seen anti-harassment policies. Bitcoin is one o& those spaces that isvery male dominated" and as a result" 1 !ouldnNt *e surprised" at least &rom mye/perience in the last 5= years o& technology and going to hundreds and hundreds o&technology con&erences" i& lie in every other technology con&erence" !e're going to&ace pro*lems !ith se/ism" harassment" possi*ly even se/ual assault and !orse" inBitcoin con&erences" unless !e tae some steps no!. hat's my pet peeve and" !hatdo you guys thinE 3$56<48

SM: 1 have a lot o& thoughts a*out this *ut" !hat inds o& steps !ould you say could *elie concrete steps to end se/ual harassment and *asically" mae these inds o&con&erences a more !elcoming environment &or every*ody" regardless o& gender" race"and orientation and all inds o& stu&& lie thatE 3$56%8

%%: 9ell" actually that's a great uestion Stephanie and &ortunately the silver lining" i&you lie" is that *ecause this is *een increasingly paid attention to over the last 54 yearsor so" there have *een a lot o& very !ell developed con&erence policies that have *eencro!d-sourced and pu*licly availa*le no! as pu*lic domain documents that people can*ase their o!n anti-harassment policies on. he advantage here is that these policieshave no! *een tested" through doens o& con&erences. Con&erences lie the :ythoncon&erence - :yCon" the open source con&erences organied *y ?SCon" as !ell as thevarious Linu/ con&erences" that !ere among the &irst to adopt these. hat means thatthese policies have *een tested !ith real pro*lems" !ith serious pro*lems" including insome cases se/ual assault and rape. 3$<6<=8

SM: 1t's +ust a horri*le thing to thin a*out. 1& 1 go to this con&erence" am 1 going to *ese/ually assaulted or !orseE Ko*ody should have to *e asing that uestion !henthey're thining a*out going to a tech con&erence. 3$<6%8



%%: And yet it's a uestion that 1 thin a lot o& !omen as and conversely" 1 thin a lot o&men have the privilege o& not having to as that uestion" or even consider it. 9hen my

!i&e goes to con&erences" 1 insist that she goes armed" al!ays. hat may*e a petpeeve &or me" *ut uite honestly" 1 &ind hotels to *e very dangerous places and !henyou have a lot o& pro&essionals getting together and drining" things happen. 3$<6=G8

SM: eah" sure they do. 1 ne! this topic !as going to come up on the sho! at somepoint. 9e haven't taled a*out it yet" *ut this is as good a time as any to *ring it up. 1t's*een really interesting &or me" *eing &emale and *eing around the Bitcoin community"and +ust some o& the e/periences that 1Nve had. :ersonally my interests have al!ayssort o& tended to spaces that are a little more male dominated lie" 1'm into li*erty and&reedom" and Bitcoin and atheism or scepticism and so" all those things are prettyheavily male dominated. Bitcoin really stands out as sort o& the most" you no!" G=-G7R male. Kot that there's anything !rong !ith that" there are many great men that arein Bitcoin. 1 !ould lie to see may*e a little *it more diversity" *ut that's !hat !e've gotright no!. 1 try to do !hat 1 can to tell all my &emale &riends a*out Bitcoin" and to sho!

them ho! to use it" to help them set up a !allet0 so that's +ust my personal soap*o/ totry to *ring more people o& all di&&erent inds into the community. But going to a Bitcoincon&erence and !aling in and seeing models at the *ooths – Booth*a*es" as they'resometimes called0 *eing a !omen you do ind o& get this sense that – #r" this isn't really&or me.. you no!" this is &or the guys to loo at and" hey" 1 don't mind looing at*eauti&ul !omen either" *ut you do +ust get the sense that this is not a place that's &oryou. 1t's a little un!elcoming. 9hen 1 go on LocalBitcoins and 1 get a message &romsome*ody !ho doesn't no! me" invaria*ly it starts out !ith - Hey *ro" Hey dude" Heyman" and G=R o& the time" they're right. 1'm the =R !here theyNre not. 1& you go on theBitcoin &orums - that is not a !elcoming place &or !omen. here are a lot o& avatars"there are a lot o& comments and posts that +ust mae it clear that !omen are not !antedhere0 this is not a place &or !omen. ou no!" there is a little *it o& !ay to go and"un&ortunately" the people !ho care a*out issues o& diversity !hether it's gender" racial orother inds o& diversity" those people !ho are really tuned in and caring a*out thosethings.. they already get it" rightE But there are some people !ho don't get it" andthey're pro*a*ly lie a vocal minority. n&ortunately" they can ind o& taint a !hole event

!ith this &lavor o& discrimination" or !hatever. 1 do thin that most people in the Bitcoincommunity" or the tech community" or the li*erty community or !hat have you" theirheart's in the right place. hey don't hate !omen" they don't hate any*ody0 they'retuned in to these things and they !ant to mae it an environment !here every*ody

!ants to come. 1t's +ust that sometimes there are a &e! people !ho are loud and notvery !elcoming. 3$=6$=8

%%: ou no!" interestingly" 1 thin that's really the ey issue here" *ecause you'rea*solutely right Stephanie" it is a tiny" tiny minority. 9hat has *ecome evident &rom theapplication o& anti-harassment policies" especially at places lie :yCon and the Linu/con&erences" !as that once a couple o& !omen came &or!ard and taled a*out se/ualharassment" groping" &ondling" suggestive stu&&" all inds o& things lie that" other !omenstarted coming out. ?ne o& the interesting things is it !as the same people0 it !as thesame one or t!o guys !ho !ere responsi*le &or the vast ma+ority o& pro*lems" again



and again. his !as repeat issues !ith the same people" and that's *ad ne!s o*viously*ecause it sho!s that some o& these situations are repeating" *ut the good ne!s is thatonce that !as seen and having these policies in place" it !as very easy to stop"*ecause it really !as +ust a tiny" tiny minority and once that minority !as *asically not

!elcomed in the con&erences these issues really decreased dramatically. 3$@6$G8

SM: eah. 3$@6=48

%%: 1t's easy to &i/ too. 3$@6=58

SM: 1 don't no!. 1 can see a little di&&iculty there though *ecause" it's lie you don't !ant to *eat an entire community over the head !ith this – Hey" you *etter *e tolerant o& !omen or else there's going to *e conseuences. Most people don't need to hear thatmessage. 1t's +ust a &e!" and they're not listening any!ay... so !hat do you do a*outthose &e! peopleE 3$6548

%%: But it's not really a*out *eating the message" it's a*out the organiers having aclear policy that helps them deal !ith the issue. hin o& it this !ay6 let's say you're anorganier at one o& these con&erences and a !oman comes up to you and says -Something happened last night !ith this guy !hile !e !ere in one o& the con&erencerooms" or something lie it... Ho! do you handle thatE 1& you don't have a policy" youhave no guidance" you don't no! !hat to do ne/t" it gets really hairy. 1& you have apolicy" it *ecomes actually a very help&ul means o& ensuring that you &ollo! the stepsand you treat everyone consistently and &airly" and in a !ay that's predicta*le and has*een *rought to their attention *e&orehand" and that removes a lot o& the un&airness. 1really thin it's all a*out the policy and !hat that does &or the organiers" more so thandealing !ith this as applying rules to individuals. his isn't a*out nannyism or tellingyou !hat you should say or not0 this is a*out the con&erence" as a private organiationsaying - Loo" these are the accepta*le standards o& pro&essional *ehaviour in thispro&essional engagement and !e e/pect people to &ul&il those reuirements" as a privateorganiation. 3$76<%8

%B!: As the other Caucasian" heterose/ual male here" let me play ind o& the idiot. 1'mvery evidence *ased and !hen !e go to these events" 1've never seen anything thatsuggested any o& this to me and 1've never heard anyone tell me anything that everhappened at one o& these Bitcoin events. his is something that !e're concerned a*outpotentially happening. 1 mean the Booth*a*es aside" 1 totaly agree !ith you. heBooth*a*es - that de&inately did happen. But outside o& that one particular vendor inthat one particular incidence" !e don't actually no! o& anything lie this happening inthe Bitcoin space" rightE 3$G64<8

%%: o *e clear6 nothing has happened" to my attention that 1 have heard o&. his isnot a*out something happening at a Bitcoin con&erence and" as a result reuiring achange. his is a*out recogniing that !hen lots o& adults get into a place" aspro&essionals together" things happen" especially in this ind o& environment. Based onour e/periences" things !ill happen simply *ecause they have happened in hundreds o&



con&erences again and again. hings !ill happen0 it's +ust a matter o& time. My premisehere is that i& you have a policy *e&orehand" !hen things happen you can handle them alot *etter than i& you don't have a policy. 1t's as simple as it gets.

%B!: ? and 1 can see the argument &or that and 1 don't thin 1 disagree !ith that. he

thing that comes *ac to me is6 arenNt these things that !e're &inding reprehensi*le" alsoillegalE 3$G6=58

%%: Some o& them are" some o& them are not. ou no!" o& course" se/ual assault"groping are. 3$G6=8

SM: Maing an app that lets you stare at *reasts is not illegal. 3=46458

%%: Actually it !as sho!ing people's &aces !hile they !ere staring at *reasts" so notthe *reasts themselves. But still" yeah" maing something that o*+ecti&ies !omen &ore/ample" that's not illegal. 3=465<8

SM: Kor should that *e illegal. 1'd lie to *e clear. 9e don't thin that should *e illegal"or at least 1 don't thin anyone here does. But yeah" 1 ind o& agree !ith you Adam" o&course no groping" o& course no raping" that should go !ithout saying. But" !hy is it stillhappeningE 3=46<G8

%B!: ?O" so then this is more a*out +ust *eing up&ront and clear a*out !hat thee/pectations are" even regardless o& !hat the rules in the real !orld are. his is settingthe rules &or these particular con&erence type o& environments" rightE 3=46$<8

%%: And not +ust the rules &or !hat is allo!a*le" *ut also the process &or ho! to addressan issue i& it occurs" the e/pectations o& !hat !ill happen !hen such an issue occurs0&or e/ample !hat are the implications o& doing something lie thatE o you get *anned&rom the con&erenceE At :yCon yes" you get *anned. At Linu/Con& you get *anned &orli&e i& you pull one o& those things. Ko!" 1 thin that's pro*a*ly e/treme *ut" !hatever"the point is there is a policy" it's clearly understood *y all the participants *e&ore they gothere and" you have a choice as to !hether you !ant to go to a con&erence *ased on itspolicies or not. 3=565@8

%B!: he solution here then" is +ust to demand essentially" policies &rom thesecon&erences" !hich does not cost them anything to put in place0 it's +ust something thatthey actually have to thin a*out *e&orehand and then actually communicate to people

!ho are attending" rightE 1 mean" that's the *arrier here. 3=56%58

%%: Argua*ly it costs them less" *ecause it e/poses them to less lia*ility than i& theydon't have a policy. es" and that's a*solutely the argument" *ut the argument here is*ased on something else !hich 1 !ant to mae e/plicit. hese things escalate. 1& youallo! Booth*a*es" you get presentations that are o*+ecti&ying to !omen. 1& you allo!those" you get people *ehaving more and more aggressively to!ards !omen and iteeps escalating. 9hat !e've seen is that con&erences that are permissive in such



!ays" tend to create an environment that *ecomes more and more hostile" not +ust to !omen *ut minorities as !ell. 1 thin it's important to put these policies in place not*ecause !e !ant to +ust mae sure that !e have a response i& something horri&ichappens" *ut also to reduce these ind o& su*tle and repeated o&&ences i& you lie" thatcreate an environment that leads to the more serious ones. 3=<6<G8

%B!: 9e're trying to get in &ront o& this it sounds lie0 trying to prevent this &romhappening in the Bitcoin space *y encouraging con&erences and con&erence organiersto in &act" thin a*out this pro*lem *e&ore it occurs and" to have a policy in place.3=<6$<8

%%: 1'm going get !ay &urther in &ront o& it" *y maing an e/plicit pledge that 1 havemade previously &or con&erences *ut 1'm no! going to mae e/plicit &or Bitcoin. 1 !ill notattend or spea at con&erences that do not have e/plicit and en&orcea*le anti-harassment policies0 *ecause other!ise 1 !ould *e encouraging e/actly the ind o&circumstances that lead to a sausage &est o& a con&erence" and a hostile environment

&or non male heterose/uals. 3=%65%8

SM: 1 thin that's really *rave o& you" than you so much &or saying that Andreas.3=%658

%%: 1t's not *rave actually" honestly it really is not. 1t's an easy choice &or me to maeStephanie. 1t's very" veryF it's the easiest choice possi*le" !hich is !hy 1 thin more o&the pu*lic speaers and especially the guys in the Bitcoin community !ho thin this isan issue and !ant to tae it seriously" +oin me in taing this pledge" *ecause &or us it'seasy. 3=%6%78

%B!: (Laughter) 1 don't thin any o& the con&erences !e're going to have policies inplace yet. 3=%6$<8

%%: ?h yeah" 1 no!" and that's going to *ecome an immediate issue !ith theArgentinian con&erence *ecause" 1'm still in communication as to !hether 1'mparticipating in that. hey're going to have to put a policy in place. 3=%6=58

%B!: eah" 1 could de&initely see something lie that0 again" 1 hadn't really *eenthining a*out that too much" *ut 1'll tae a loo at the con&erences !e're going to andsee ho! disruptive that potentially could *e. 1 have trou*le !ith things that 1 haven'tseen. hat's really my issue" is that 1 really try to *e very evidence oriented and 1haven't seen anything lie this *ut 1 de&initely understand the concern here. 3=$65%8

SM: But ho! !ould you have seen itE 3=$65$8

%B!: Ko" 1 appreciate that. Certainly there are more opportunities &or me not to seethan &or me to see it *ut that's my only real tie up on this is that... it's scary. 3=$6<=8



%%: 1 totally understand. Ko" Adam" this is a*solutely understanda*le. Here's thething" 1 have seen it. 1've seen it at hundreds o& con&erences and 1've seen it again andagain. 1've seen it in the atheist community" 1've seen it in the Linu/ community" 1'veseen it in the open source community and 1've seen it in the security community. Addingup all o& those e/periences tells me that these are not isolated incidents" that these are

not e/ceptions. hese are patterns that develop and they develop in all circumstances !here you have a &ield that is male dominated" unless the people in that &ield tae activesteps to stop it &rom developing. hat's simply the truth. his is not something thathappens to *ad con&erences" this is something that happens to con&erences. 3==64=8

%B!: ?O" !ell 1'm looing &or!ard to seeing con&erences in this space get out in &ronto& this and hope&ully avoid the pro*lem entirely. 3==65<8

SM: 1 have a uestion that may*e !e can !rap this discussion !ith" *ut it's ind o& a*ig one. Ho! do you thin is the *est !ay to encourage more diversity in the BitcoinspaceE ?r do you thin it !ill +ust happen naturallyE And are you doing anything

personally to try to help that happenE 3==6%58

%B!: 1t's a good uestion. 1 thin that education is really the ey. he reason !hy !ehave such a male dominated &ield in Bitcoin is *ecause in order to appreciate a lot o& thecore advantages o& Bitcoin" you have to have a variety o& e/pertise almost. 3==6$=8

SM: But !hat you !ere getting at !as !hy is the Bitcoin !orld mostly !hite straightmenE hat's a really interesting uestion that 1 don't thin anyone has an ans!er to.he &irst thing that comes to mind to me is an intersection o& &inance" cryptography orcomputers. hose are *oth male dominated &ields. Ko!" the reasons &or !hy.. is that*ecause it's a cultural thing and it *ecomes a *oy's clu* and the !omen get pushed out"is it *ecause !omen aren't interested in those things in as great as num*ers as men areinterested in those thingsE 1s it *ecause !e're ind o& groomed &rom *irth to steer

!omen a!ay &rom stem &ields and so &orth.. 3=@6<$8

%%: All o& the a*oveE 3=@6<=8 SM: eah" or all o& the a*ove" some com*ination thereo&. or me" 1 !ant every*ody touse Bitcoin rightE And 1 care a*out having a large community made up o& all di&&erentinds o& people. 9hat 1 do is +ust try to tell all o& my &riends a*out Bitcoin and help themunderstand it" help them start using it. 9hat 1 &ind is that !omen are +ust as receptive toit as men" i& 1 try to tal to them a*out Bitcoin. Bitcoin can appeal to every*ody. 1t's soneutral" it's so glo*al. 1t has the a*ility to +ust go into all inds o& spaces. 1t's not +ust &orcertain inds o& people" it's &or every*ody. Let's mae it happen" tell all your &riendsa*out it and i& you !ant to see more !omen using Bitcoin" more people o& color usingBitcoin" more ueer people using Bitcoin" tell your &riends that &it these demographics"and 1 pretty much can guarantee that they're going to *e interested in it. 3=6578

%%: 1 thin you can do a lot more in terms o& increasing diversity !ithin Bitcoin. Bitcoinre&lects the rest o& our culture un&ortunately in that" it represents a technically male



dominated &ield. As people in this &ield" !e can tae active measures to counteract that.1& you recognie the &act that money is &or everyone" it's neutral" it's a human right"everyone should have it and this is &or everyone" then you don't have to accept the &actthat *ecause the culture is *iased youNre going to tae that *ias and re&lect it in Bitcoin.ou can !or against that" you can actively !or against that. ou mae hiring

decisions &or e/ample" so !hen you're maing hiring decisions6 in my previous companyone o& the most important hiring policies !e instituted !as stripping names" ages andaddresses o&& people's resumes" so you have to +udge them *y their sills during theprocess. ?nly at the very end did you &ind out !ho the person !as" you had to do it*lind. hat actually resulted" very uicly" in an increase in !omen and minorities inhiring. 3=76578

SM: hat's interesting *ecause there are actual studies that sho! hiring decisions area&&ected *y the sound o& the name" the gender and everything. 3=76<=8

%%: A*solutely" it's *asically recogniing that *ias is not something that *ad people do.

Bias is something that is intrinsic to the human e/perience. 1gnoring that *ias" or !orse"&eeding that *ias is something *ad people do. 1& you !ant" you recognie the *ias isthere" you recognie that even the most enlightened among us tend to mae snap

+udgements *ased on names" *ased on age" *ased on location" state even. 1& you !antto cut those +udgements out" you !or actively to remove them so that you don't applyyour *ias. ou can do that in hiring" you can do that in the !ay you do mentoring andcareer development !ithin your company. ou can loo care&ully at your Bitcoin startup"your ne! Bitcoin startup and as yoursel&6 are all my !omen in maretingE Are all myengineering team menE 1& that's the case" then there's something !rong !ith yourhiring. 1 don't !ant to pre+udice this and say that 1'm going to get a hundred thousandemails. 1'm going to disclaim this up&ront. 1'm taling a*out ho! 1 mae my o!nchoices. 1'm also suggesting that other people may !ant to thin a*out their choices"that's all. 1'm not saying !e should impose any o& this on any one. 1t's all a*out privatecompanies and private individuals maing choices that promote the ideals that they

!ish to promote. hat's !hy 1've made the choice to not go to the con&erences" *utthat's my private choice" 1'm not imposing it on anyone. 3=G6$G8

SM: ou no!" there's another point a*out that too. 1n a !ay" discrimination hurts theemployer as much as the employee *ecause" i& someone is discriminating *ased onsomething ar*itrary lie gender" race or !hatever" then they might miss out on a greatemployee and they could +ust go !or &or another company that doesn't have that *ias.ou no!" un&ortunately" in some spaces" every*ody has these *iases and people don'trealie it so it can't get addressed *ut" consider that !hen you're hiring. ou might missout on a great employee. 3564465G8

%B!: As !e !ere getting into this conversation" 1 !as a little *it concerned that !e !ere going to go the direction !ith it !here !e should *e maing sure !here i& you arein a Bitcoin or tech related company" you should *e maing sure to hire a minimumnum*er o& these other minority groups" *ut that's not !hat you !ere saying at allAndreas. 356446%$8



%%: Ko... 356446%=8

%B!: 9hat you !ere saying is that you're +ust modi&ying the !ay that you even goa*out hiring and ho! you0 you no!" you're looing at sills *e&ore you loo at the

people. 356446$58

%%: 1& you remove the organiational" institutional and su*+ective *iases that you havein your hiring process" diversity happens" *elieve me. 1t may not happen as rapidly asyou might lie and you're still going to get some o& that cultural *ias &iltering through" *utyou are going to *e a*le to shrin that gap. At the end o& the day" !hen !e are talinga*out &reedom and !e're taling a*out choices" the &reer you are" the more you havethe *urden o& that choice *ecause your choice no! has meaning" so mae it care&ully.356456558

hans &or listening to #pisode $% o& Let's al Bitcoin. Content &or today's sho! !asprovided *y Stephanie Murphy" Andreas M. Antonopoulos" Michael Hill and annyBre!ster. Music !as provided *y ared ;u*ens and a o!n. 1& you can't getenough original thought and discussion" read our daily *log at !!!.letstal*itcoin.com.Sign up &or our !eely ne!sletter at !!!.the!eely*itcoin.com. o get in touch" sendme mail at adamletstal*itcoin.com or visit !!!.letstal*itcoin.comTtal to *e directedto our listener su*reddit. Have a great day2 356456$<8


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let's talk bitcoin, episode 43, "speculative, but foundational"

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