Queensland

Parliamentary Debates [Hansard]

Legislative Assembly

THURSDAY, 9 DECEMBER 1920

Electronic reproduction of original hardcopy

602 Queslions. [.\SSE~IBLY.] (Juestions.

THURSDAY, 9 DECE11BER, 1920.

The SPE,KER (Hon. \V. Bcrtram. Jfarce) t,ook the chair ht hal!.'~past 3 o'clock p.m.

QUESTIONS. V.\Ll:E OF COPPER AND LEAD TREATED AT

CH!LLAGO!l SMELTERS. I\Ir. FLETC.!-IER (Port Curtis) aske-d the

.Home Secretary for the Secretary for Mines-" 1. At what value per ton was the

ooppel' and lead, as shown in the Chilla­goo profit and loss .account for year ended 30th Junr, 1920, as :8143,760 16s. 6d., taken into stock 1

" 2. Has any of this copper or lead yet been sold 1

"3. If eo, at what prices per ton?"

The HOME SECRETARY (Hon. W. MoCormack, CairnB) replie-d-

" 1. Copper. £110 15s. per ton; lead bullion, £48 10s. Sd. per ton; both include gold and silver contents.

"2. All the copper has been sold, also 782 tons lead.

"3. Copper, £114 7s. 8d. per ton; lead bullion, £51 ls. 7d. per ton. No sale note receive-d for 264 tons lead bullion (balance stock)."

STATE ScHOLARSHIPS.

Mr. KERR (Enoggcm) asked the Secretary for Public Instruction-

" 1. The number of persons who secured scholarships in each of the years 1916, 1917, 1918, and 1919?

"2. The number in each year who took advantage of such scholarships?

" 3. The number in e;;tch of the years mentioned who sustaine-d the instruction in ·higher cduf'ation for ,a period lonp;er tillan-,(a) three months; (b) six montlis; (c) nine !llonths ?"

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC IN­STRUGTIO}.I (Hon. J. Huxham, Bura.nd4) replie-d-

" 1 to 3. State Scholar~hips to Grammar Schools and approve-d Secondary Schools-

1916---From 1st January-No. granted, 699; Ko. taken up, 681; Period longer than three months, 678 ; Period longer than six months, 674; Period longer than nine months, 670.

1917-From 1st January-No. granted, 880; No. tctken up, 855; Period longer than three m,)n\he, 844; Period longer than six months, 834 ; Period longer than nine mont·hs, 831.

1918-Fro.n 1st January-No. granted, J<S; ::\o. taken up, 797; Period longer than threo rnonth:-;, 790; Period ]ongor th,-, n ::;~...: rr:onths, 784; Period longer than mne months, 779.

Hfl8-Frorn 1st Juh·-No, grant'ld, 6n7: ::-<o. to. ken up, 585; Period longer than throo montho, 582; Period longer than six months, 572 ; Period longer than nine months, 569.

l~·'l9--Fron1 1st. July-No. grantod, L4Q7; No. t.akBn up. 1.400: Psriod lung:_'r than thn~e months, 1,390; Pel'iod longer th:1n six rnonth8, 1.355: Period longor than lne Tnonths, 1,344."

PAY)IENT OF EXPEXEBS OF ~viE~IBERS OF l'AHLIAMENT DumxG ELECTION CA~IPAIGKS.

~fr. SWAYNE (.IIirani) asked the Pre­Inwr-

" 1. \Yho were the members of whom he made mention in reply to a qnestion yesterday as having dmwn out-of-pocket expenses to visit the Southern States during the 1919 Fedora! election cam­r :tign?

" 2. \Vhat n,as tlw amount of out-of­pocket expenses drawn by cP~ch men1ber C'oncerned ?"

The PREMIER (Hon, E. G. Theodore, C'l>illagoe) repliBd-

" 1 and 2. The information will be given wh<n the relevant vote is under rliscussi on.''

EXPENSES OF MINISTERS DURING ELECTION CAMPAIGNS.

Mr. SWAYNE asked the Premier-" 1. \Vhat amount of travelling expen­

ses was drawn by each Minister indi­vidually, between the issue of the writ and polling day during-(a) 1919 Fed-eral election campaign; (b) Maranoa, Leich­hardt, and Barcoo by-election oompaigns, 1919; (c) Herbcrt by-election campaign, 1920; and (d) general election campaign, 1920 '?

" 2. \Vhat were the costs of soecial trains, steam-er·", and 1notor-cars -made use of bY Ministers and Government mem1Jers 'at State expense during each of the periods mentioned in (1) ?"

The PREMIER repli<ed-" 1 and 2. The information will be

obtained."

I'llEFEREXCE FOR LocAL WoRKERS o~' Isrs Rt(}llADIXG \VORKS.

Mr. BRAND (Burrum) asked the Secre­tary for Railways-

" l, Is it true that upon the Doolbi regradin<s works preference over local 1nen "vas giv€n to outside applicants for employment?

"2. Does his department intend to pro­ceed with further regrading works on the Isis line 1

" 3. If so, wiil he issue instructions that local workers in th-e Isis district shall have preference OYer outsiders in the matter of employment 1"

The SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS (Hon. J. La rum be, K eppel) replied-

" 1. The men were engaged through the Ln bour Bureaux-ten at Maryborough and twenty at Bunda,berg, where unem­p]oyrnont was gTPat'J.~t. Tv.:o men "\\'ere a],, obtetine-d through tho Chi!ders Laholn~ Bureau.

"2. ;\Jot at present. ":·. Bee Ko. 2."

INt:OniE TAX AS' T'~S~iE:i\'T£1-DEC!:DIO~ OF I-iiGH COURT.

11!'. GREE?-,~ (To?··n8: .'lZc) a.skE:d ihe Trc.n ·urer-

" In Yie'\Y of tb~ ded~ion of the High dc~1:w"":"ing f:.~ section rdating to

rier1vcd from Commonwealth

[\J DECE~viBER.] 8 ·pp'?J.

Stock, etc., to be invalid for the pur­po.scs of taxation) do(,, he J)l'')lJOSr>

refund the c,~-::c;---,;. incC't~le tc1~ .... 1 paiJ

taxpayers u:nctcr tins fH. eh on ot tnQ ..:\et.

The TREAST~RER 1·eplid--:' The n1atter is rcc~'iYing consid..:ra­

tion. n

:C\Iot:N~ SPEC \YATER ScPPLV-l'r 'lCi _\,IATION OF 1\TATIOXAL RE.~ERYL

11r. GREE~ asked thP S:-Cl'f'tary for Public Lands~

"In .vic\r of the report of ~lr. Cro\"-ley rogarchng the excellent supnl v of \V .Ut er fo_r don1cstic and uHlity -rp~n·poscs at lvfount Spec .. Tovvns,yille-Ingharn district '"ill ho so>C· that the rocolnn1endatio~ co11tained thcr0in to h~Ye this urea nro­clainlCd as a natio:nal roscrv.p bt:~ given immediate effect to'!" ·

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC LANDS iHon. J. H. Coyne, Wm·r, yo) rcplie.d-

" 1t1r. Cro\Yley's report is under con­sideJ.·ation by the Hon. the Tr·easur,?r, who, doubtless, will later on submit it to the Cabinet."

. SANATOmt:M AKD HoLIDAY REsoRT rx NORTH QUEENSLAND.

Mr. GREEK asked the Premier-

" Recognising the necessity of e;3tab­]i,hing a health sanatorium and holiday resort in North Queensland. and the d,",irability of snch being a-djacent to the North Coast Railway Lih1e. and in consideration of .Mr. Cr,';wlcy's ·report thcrcon, vviH l1e in1press Epon the IVIuin Roads Board the urgDncy of undcrLk­ing thjs work as early as possible?"

The PREMIER replied-" The proposal to proclairn as a

nationa.l reserve the ~lount Snec dis­trict, as well as the suggestion· for the establishment of a health sanatorium and holiday resort in that locality, is one which h~s been before this and pre­vious GoYernments for some considerable time past. As the hon. member indicates, the matter is referred to in ~1r. Crow­ley' s reoent report on the hydro-eleetric power possibilities of this dishict. This report is at present in the hands of the Treasurer, and will short! v bo eonsicJ,,red by Cabinet." '

IKQl'IRY RESPECTI:SG CosT or BcTT:R PRODL'CfiON.

Mr. F. A. COOPER (JJrcmer): I desire to ask tlw Premier, without notice, if hc will be good c:Hough to lay on the to blc of the HousB and ha\o printed a copy of the evidence taken before 1Ir. Fe~·ry with respect to the cost of butter production, togcth- r with Ivlr. Ferry's findings?

The PRE=.\1IER.: There will b.• no objec­tion to laying the paper on the table. (Hear, hear!)

Co·1'l\ ·'1N\YEALTH BAxE _\~D Fon·· :-rco~.JL~G LOA?\.

Ho·;:. W. H. BAR:::\ES (JJuli11• to ask the PrET:ljel', \vithout infonn thr IIou:-:c as to 1nent \\·as made durir::.~

: I 'ksil·e if Le ca·t

D-.:~l-ison in ronnc:Ctio!~ \\~ith the forth-con1illg and. i{ so, will he state what the arrangClnent was?

The PRE:YIIER replie.J: rl.n arrangement ·h-<lS di;::cu~,ed \Vith 1\'lr. Dcnison ::\Iiller vd1en

he was here, but I au1 not in a position :;, et to nutkc any statement to the IIoP .. e \Vith rcga.rd to it.

SCPPLY.

RESU;\1PTrox OF Cmr:'ITTEE-THnm ALLOTTED DAY.

(Jir. Smith. Jfacluy, in the chair.)

PREMIER AND CHIEF SECRETARY'S DEPARTMENT.

CO}!OIISSIONER OF PRICES.

Qu~stJon ·tatcd-That £•;,18~ be gr.a.nted for ColnlTIISSloner o£ Prict\:i ' ; to which a:1 auwndm~nt had been proposed by :Mr. 1\1orgun to n:duco the an1ount by £1.

Mr. COSTELLO (Garnarvon) : On the prcvit:;ns night he ha·d boen endeavouring to pomt out to the Government the distress­ing circumstances through which the primary producers had passed during the last few years. They had even found it necessary to resort to the use of willows and apple trees rn order to keep then· stock aliYe . Dunn1; thon years they had incurred con­eirlerablc expense in buying fodder from the Ym·ious stor·•keopcrs and from the Departm,•nt of Agriculture and Stock, and m many case' that money was still owing. That v, ·rs on0 of tho urp;uments he \vould U3U n gainst the~ fixlng of the price of butter. He would quote from the annual report of the Department of Agriculture and Stock ~) dhow the .fallir~g __ oft' of personA enga~od m the fanmng mdustry. It statc•d that Ja.,t year the number engaged in farming was 32,086, and in dai1ying 25,675, but the aggregate "as fewer bv 2,359 than in 1918, and in that year the" total was fewer by 6,259 poroons than in 1917. Thus, as applied to fan:1ing and dair5ving, the rural popula­tion was £;ewer by 8.618 persons than three ,YE.'ars ago. EYen if they ,~,ere getting what hon. gentleman on the other sidD considered \vas 11101'{! than a just thing, they clain1ed they v. ere ontitl<Jd to it to make up for the ' cars they had gone through. He had h~ard sorue reference n1ade to the hon. rnombcr for Dravton in connection with V>'"ater diyining. Sp;_aking from e"(perience, he would eay that hon. member would be a great ~ssot to the farmers on the Darling Downs in that connection. He had guaranteed to find water for farmers for a paynwnt of £35. \Vhero was the man on the Lnd who was not willing to pny £35 for a guarantee of \Vater? Reflections of that kind on an hon. rnen1bcr ,~-ha had ahYa.ys lv:-nn trnc rhau1pion of the ~qrrr1C'rs' jute rests \Y:...wc yer5T uncalL,,l for. T,• k:ing Hll average oYer thr- hst thre~:: yearH, th~-~ pe.}plc engaged in the dr!.ir:ving industry had not mac1' £110 a yea1·. That was not a. living wage, but hon. mernbors opp(J~.iL~ did :ot c;u L' .>:hat thfl }Jl'illWl':V pr•HlU· er~ \.'Ol'kcd foi' _.:J as thcJ· got chNtp butL,r. \\ h'"":<:YPr h-, Ad\'i' on t~w t1blo in th·J' 1 {re:~bment-rooin.c:) 1·.·as ashamed to think

the farnv;r a their IYiYf'~. too; ;vero t'.' ·]vr>, fonrtc n. <J::~d six'-:~cn hnur~

a. ., , pL ;_:luct~ it. rrhcsc f<~.JS '.•',_:r~= lio w 1~ (•nt 1·'-- 01_1:!_J0'3D

the GoYc.r~mY'nt, hnt f!t~'n llo-·.· tlF' fnrn1crs should eYnn1athv ~ •. nd ,e-ncoura~ enteni- o~·er- nJ diffic~]t time.

604 Supply. [ASSE~1BL Y.j Supply

He also wished to ask the Government whether, if a time ca1ne \vhen thvse in the fruit industry \',ere not receiving the just trowards of their labour, !hey woulcl con­sider the advi tbility of using their Price~ fixing Curnmissioner in the intcrc~ts of th0 {rnit6TO\\'Cl'.S, alld -vrhethcr, .iu any ea·,

found it 11u::e:::sary to gl't hirn products) they

hiru a l'C'prc::::ClltatiY0 produc(~rs and- a.

COllSUftlCl'S.

Mr. PEASE (Herbut): In the attacks on the J?riu":-i!xing Co1nntissioncr by certe1in members of the Opposition, they had hoard

deal ab0ut L'Jndon or wodcl's parity. CmnnLi:~~ioner very wisely ignored that

que-..·tinn, bt:causo the prescnt-cl<~y London ., parity was. o11l~~ artificial. It \Y[l.s created

by \Yal" conditions; it "as a bubble which might buret at any moment. To prove that he would quote tho following report received from America quite recently:-

"Accompanying tho recent stock slump, there has been a tremendous deflation in the prices of standard com­modities. Cotton, which was quoted six months ago at 43 cents por pound, is to-day 17 cents. Corn, which was quoted at 2 dollars 13 cents within six months, was to-d1ty 70 cents per bushel. Oats, fornwrly a doll11r, aro selling to-day at 42 to 48 cents per bushel. Wheat is down from 2 dollars 75 cents to 1 dollar 75 cents.

"At Chicago~ liYe stock prices are dO\vn to the 1917 level. Corn and oats are the lowest thev have been in five years, and wheat the lowest for three years.

"Hog prices continued their sensa-tional decline to-day."

Certain members of the Opposition had been decrying Queensland as a S'tate which was no use to tho farmer and his commoditie, and upholding other StatPs. He had a q':wtation fron;. a paper, appearing under a p1cturo of a b1g stack of oats in 1\ ew South Wales. It was as follows:-

"Part of the great st<tcks of 230,000 bag:c of oatc which the Hural Inrlustries Board has ac~umulated at Darling Island. Tho board purchased thcso at 6s. 6d. per bushel. and is glad now to sell them at 3s. 6d. per bushel. Tho board h:s al'o a large quantity of barley at Darlmg Island, and is not able to flnd an outlet for it. It is iAimated that the losses in this co11n0rtion \Yjll amount to at least half a million."

That was thr lo::-':1 oa barlc~Y and oats in 1\cw South \Ya.lcs. Thn Oppos1tion \You1d 1. 1cl one to bcli' vc tl12t the -whole of the butter produrcO in Qnc.cnr.'l.a.nd Wa':, f'O!lsumod locnllv_, but thnt '· ns not .so. It '.'-as generallY kno\Yn t1ut onlY nhnnt or"!c-thirJ of th0 Ln tP'r produced in Qt;cemland was consumed locally and two-third.-; were cxportc"d. To pro.-e tha·t absolutely. he had looked up tho "Queens­land Shipping Rcgist0r," -whjrh shO\YCd that the '' Oi'ontcs." 1-rhich left the other dav, to~k ~'Y<l"'" 6.g94 l- )-- "rr, ,T_-}Ji('h ,, ~n shl]Jpc.cl by Committee; n nd h-- tl1e " shipl!Crl 100 hoxPc of " , hicn a]s.o ]eft the cr_~te chee~c. The "

"TlJ~-.

of the

[Jlr, Cusfello.

advise that the following dairy produce was graded at Brisbane during the week

nclc'd 4th Dc>ccmbcr :-Duttcr (salted), boxes; hnttc•c· (unsaltcd), 2,078 chccJc, 1,839 crate::.."

The d~~iry in Quc{_nJand were getting for tLcir d1et <' +-h}tn -.,ya.s na.id

The Opposition had been a.ll the t inw SCJ frrr n.s

b~1t he -;,yas not goins or <l --1yonc cb~· to

decry the farmer,; of North Qucon.,land. Tlw fatmer."3 in ?\-ra·th Queensland '.n;rt: not ho\vl­ing blue~ ruin. TL.ey wanted to get all the

could in Korth Queen:<land, and "·ere a bl{' t·o nrove bv fu:rtULS that the

in the ~crth W{'re udGi.D'~ \Vcl1. Take th~' Butter Factorv.

That factorv in a vcrv sn1[dl v.r3:v about ten y~ar~ ago, and to-dai in Athertofi they had a very u,p-to-date factory. They had just completed a second one at J11alanda, and another onE' \Yas projected at Peeramon. The eo-operati,-e society ha.d spent soine thousands of pound-. at Cnirns in order to proYidc facilities for marketing- their pro­duce. The settlers in that district were very prosperouc and were able to go in for up­to-date milking machine~, and the factor:v 1

in adclition to paying a good price for the l'rean1. ha.d b0un paying dividends every year to dry shareholders. He we; quite prepared to <Jccept the statements of hon. members opposit ' thflt their farming constituents ne0dcd .son1c consideration, and he knew that the nwn1bcrs of the Labour party 1vere quite prepo rrd to support anything feasible that would help the producers. One would be led to believe from tho remarks of hon. n1cmb0rs opposib; that any man who \Vent in for dairying- in Queensland to-clay was mad, but the pec)ple of the North wanted people to go in for dair~-iDg. He wa3 prepared to f-lfiY that jf an:v-nne comn1enc.Pd dairying in North Queensland to-day he would get more than a decent living. At tho pros0nt time the people of Innisfail wore trying to < <tablish the butter incluc,trv there. Yester­day he recPived a copy of tire Innisfail nev-s­p:Lper of 2nd December. which published a letter by ]\,'fr. S. K. Page, who, amongst other things, said-

" On SRturclay, 11th December, at 11.30 a. m. in the shire hall a meeting of the shareholders of tho propoc.ed Innisfail Butter Company, Limitocl, is convened for the purpose of considering a rcrort from the provi,ional directors of this proposed butt, r fnctory scheme.

"Don't hesitate; snap up your chance; n1ake a rnovc; hov- vour b.ith in the dictrict; prove to Que.ensland generally that we have .sorne indnc0n1r:'nt to 0ffcr landSPl.'kcrs or makers of hmne~ ; advcr­tioe th,~ North, the hnd of plenty."'

He >vas there to advertise t.h0 ::\'orth, and he ,,-as not going to "blue ruin." The

posp:r ;;:~ ~1. for a!l sor1:::: of ·n lot.~ nfi a TY!81' IY"s prt"'p11l'Cd to

and h0 c-ould sa~-, aft0r tvvt"nt.\- years' r., that nJl thP gcnu.i!l(' farnt~_:rs in

Xo th "",YFrc 0nrnin~ good rno.!."e,,-. 2\1r. .tgc furth0r sa :_d in his lott{~r-

'; Do clairynwn in Southern climes k~--._o\Y IY0ndcrfnl:1f'"S of Y.t1' rUs-trict. If at all interested, d<:dt fail to be in nttc!:dnncc ::;.t thr Fhire h.nl1 on Saturcla,, 11th Dcro.nbcr, for f'st· :bJi:->h·­ing nn industr:- which 'vill help to place

Supply. [9 DECEMBER.] Supply. 605

Innisfa.il and district in the forefront of development, progrcs::<, and production."

~Although in the pa,"t there n1av bar' iJ('Pll 30lllC instances \Vherc dail'Jlll1en l;.ad l1(lt done ·\vell; that was not t.ho <';"'-;;;;:~ to-da.. During tho ch·ought a fp·, · years ago the· conditions n11ght . not have been too good, but to-day the dauy L,nnnrs and eve1y o.hcr L1rEr·.cr 1n Qae·mslancl were better off than thev h~td been £or years past. Th·'2 Country "narty would like the ncople tu bdic-,-e th~-'.t _,_they were out colcly t~) help the farmPr. but tha't was not the opinion of the people whom he represented, and be r0prc;:,entctl n_.; 1nany f~rmc1·s as nny mun1ber on the Oppositioll stde of the House. He had ti,·e su ,H mills in his district. and thcv \\"CTC 110\Y trvinO' to estRblish the dairying.., industrv. T1iis ",,·as vvhat the Country party had ·done for i he sugar farmn, in North Que.m,land: \\'hen Mr. Hughes introduced into tho llouso of Rcprc'scntati' es the agree1ncnt rel:Ltin:r to the, fixing of the price of sugar, ~:VIr. Me Nllhams. loader of the Federal Counby party, protested strongly a.~tainst such an tmportant statement as fixin-" the price of sugar being sprung on the "House without­notice. }{ c sa id-

" The ~xtra burden in1poscd on con~ surncrs will carry sorro\v far and wide. 11

That was what the Country partu in the Federal House was worr,ino- abou't. Then Mr. Cha.pma.n. Nationalist, ~aid-

" \V c have been spoon.fceding Queens-land sugar for :rnany years."

They had got no sympathy with them. He knew n good deal about tho sugar industry, and lhe loader of the Country party in tho Federal House was chiefly concerned about getting che~ per sugar for the jam industrv.

Tho leadPr of the :'-!ationalists [4 p.m.] and the leader of the Countrv . party in the Federal ParliameJ1t

~rted t<; s<J.dr!lo the sugar producer of Queens· land w1th £21 a ton for suo-ar for three years. (Opposition interjections.) Mr. Thc'odore dela:;ccl his trip ,home to the old country to fight for the suo·ar.,.:;rowcr of North Que 'ns· land. That was why the m<J.jorih· in his (Mr. Pea~e)6) electorate \Vas increas(:d at the last election from 50 to 500 Lc,'ausc tbe peop1e appr0ciatcd wh{lt this Govcrnm.Ent hCld done in connection with t~ho ugar industry. (Opposition interjections.)

The CI-T.A lR~lAJ'~: Order l I must 1ncrnbcrs tn allD"\V thr> hon.

proceed -,vith his f had occasion yest·-'rday ror crder ;f hon.

1GOVERN~J:C:\T ~iE'f'~BERS: l--Icar. hear!

lie ,,v. a~ j u~t g-oing to " Bulletin" in eDniH

Df 2-ugar. It stated a

F0dcral Goycrnrncnt .CODCC'S-::liOll~ for the \'V('<lJthv

at the cxrwnse of the ~ ug·nr-of Queensland. and sd out the

follo\YS :-The vd;oJcsale pric<J ;.;:ug-ar at the timo in ~.~w

we s £46- JWr ton, London £57 JXr ton. and the price fixed for Austra1in onlv £26. The> jam trust approached the Federal Government. and the r0sult was

they were grantod a concMsion that tho price of sugar llS"d in the Inanuf.uc­turo of jam for export should be only £20 per ton."

r.I'he Foderul GoYerrnnent, com=::isting cf the Counhy partv and ?\ationalist :, were pro· pared to rob the sugar·growers of Qneonsland of £6 a ton for the benefit of the jam com­bine, yot those were t.he people who said they \Yere representing the farmers-

" To-day the price of sugar is fixed on the hasi-. of £30 6s. 8d. as regards the sugar fanners, ·whilst tbG Con1n1on,~:en.lth Govorn1nent are paying £42 a. ton for sugar they are buying from Cube and Java and grmvn by black labour."

Ko loss than 130.000 tons of sugar WLS c.om· ing int0 ) .... ustralia. this Year at a price of .o£42 a ton, which amou"ntcd to £5,460,00G. whi I o the CommonvYealth Govcrnn1ent ·was only poving £30 6s. 8d. a ton. Most of the Opjwsition members who had criticised Mr. Ferrv .had rtdmitted that they did not know him 'personally. He had known Mr. Ferry for over twcnt,- vcars. Ho had been in :\'orth Queenslar~d ncmly all his life. and in the Herbert electorate no public officer stood hirr-Jwr in the estimation of every person in th~ communitv irrespective of politics. than did 2\Ir. Ferry.' IHear. hear!) The oninion in North Queensland was that Mr. Ferry's decisions were those of a. just man.

GoVERN>IF.NT ME'I!BERS: Hear, hear !

Mr. GREEN (To10nsvill,) : Notwithsta.nd­ing the length of the debate, he felt quite justified in speaking rather than cast a silent vote on this important matter. He greatly regretted that any personality had been introduced into the debate. as he con­sidr·red \VC "~Prc here to discuss measures of administration rather than GoYernmcnt officials. He did not wish to dis.uss the question from the point of view of the price of butter, but with regard to tho principle of pricc.fixing as il affected primary products. In view of certain circumstances, he could qnitc understand the pcre.onal remarks made, unfortunately. by some Opposition mcmb0rs against 1\Ir. Ferry, for in~,tance. It was !in infedion which came from the present Admm­istration. for \Yhcn the pref-c-nt Administra­tion \Ycre sitting- on the Oppo~ition benches they did not ':csii-rrto to criticise public offi('crs to also thr0a.ten th{)m on ·,e\'('f<ll

orc~~io;1s. rcc:oJuticn whirh '\Ya5 placed convcr.tion would lend attack public

pnbl Fc.rr~ .. ~ Pric0 Fi:xinQ"

y·. a~ c"nnccfl1f'd, he c-oul~l to that of th'? hnn .

yr +crd:-ty" rcso1vbon

(',lrrv o'f

for

llad knrrwn ).Tr. a. in Townsvil10. J1j;;c;r~ and he could s:t:· at they

J1('\'f'l' a more f'OnsciQnt1ou~ zcf\ lnns p111J~ie officer. (I-I o-ar, he:1r !) \Vas nulte com·inc<"d t-hat in fixing prices 2\1r. F'crry had donr' so cons('icntious1y. anc1 1 l.f'rording to the evidence placed before him, had come

Mr. Green]

DOli Supply. [ASSEJ\1BLY.] Supply.

to a just conclusion. His constituency did not embrace anyone engage-d in agricultural pursuits, but he did not hesitate to say that, though it w'" composed of chiefly workiug men and industrial workers, he stood for the principle of fair play-first of all to the worker, to see that he got a just and fair reward fm· his labour; fair pia:,· for th•.l employer, to see that he got a fair return for the 'Vaf:'.T-) vvhich he paid; and fair play and just treatment for the primary produc-e<', '' ho was developing this great State; nnd he believed tho industrial v:orkers of Towns­villc stood for that sa1ne principle; and ho would rmnind the hon. member for Rosewood 1ha.t priuciph~ ~".as worth fighting for­was worth sacrifici:1g for. The hon. mem­ber fer Normanby and other hon. members had painted a picture of the condition of the dairy farmers in tho State. The present was an abnormal time, and they should look at the industry in a previous period and "!so consider what was likely to be in front of them. Hon. members had compared the price-fixing with the sugar industry; but the tribunal which fixed the price of sugar was absolutely different to the tribunal which fixed the price of primary products, such as butter and cheese. He thought that the primary producers would be quite prepared to accept a similar tri­bunal to the Cane Price Fixing Board, and agr~e to a permanent price being fixed for their products, even if it was fixed &t a lower rate than it was at present, as long as they were assured that prices would be maintainod and the industry placed upon a :firm footing. The position of the dairymen had been referred to. He had received a letter this week from a dairyman on the North Coast line, where they recently had bounteous rains;- and this man stated that his partner, his wife, and himself, and two sons were all working hard, that they were mortgaged right up to the hilt, and could not get an advance from the bank; and, being a friend, he had asked him (Mr. Green) if he could let him have a couple of hundred pounds in order to buy a few more cattle, in order to take advantage of the abnormal season, and so be enabled to pay off his liabilities. They had heard a good deal of the Government's previous efforts for the prima1-y producers. He did not condemn price-fixing absolutdy, aP. it was often esqen­tial, and the profiteer and anyone who extorted unjust profits from those in dire distress and in timf)s of disaster should be promptly and severely dealt ';·ith.. They should a>5ist, hy moans of a sub,1dy If neces­sary, those who were developing the State and making it prodqctive. They had had "lot of discU'·Sion with regard to the "Repu­diation" Act. That Act was morally wrong. and was passed onlv in order to get additional financr;, into the Treasury.

Mr. F. A. CooP~TI: \Yas th't why :11r. Denham iYlh·odncPd it?

I\Ir. GREEN: If he did introduce it. it -..vas iust as >.vron~ then u it •..va~:: at tho nrcse:nt fi rne. The,- knc'\v the Go,, ernn1ent had~ s,:ized the c:J,ttle ~f the small squatters at 20 per cr~nt less than actual selling price, in order that they might supply cheap meat to ~hose _who were in tho cities. That was not right, JUSt, nor honest. During tho discussion on the Local Authorities B-ill thcv heard the mem­bers on the Government benches charge the dairymen with supplying impure milk. and practically with being murderers of the infant life of the State. He was proud to

[Mr. Green.

be in e, position to state that they had ir, tho Townsvillc electorate a most zealous, capable, and strict in,·prctor, and yet during the la t. yt:ar there wa .. 3 not a sohtnry prosecution for supplying; in1pun' n1ilk.

The C1LHRJ\I 'd\: Order ~

lHt GHEE!'~: He ·was pointing out how th' flai1·y~n.en had been tre--·te·d} in refutation of tho-."' IYho s.tnted this GoYl'l'lll11Cllt hat~ 1 ~ atc<l 1~1 a fair and indca

she'.\>' the n1a111H?~· which iho nroduccrs had been trratcd in the p:::.st,

he ~·-otild quotn the follo,,·ing :-"On 16th ,Tunc, 1916, a dcpukttion of

co-operative dairymen pointed out th~t the lOEdltions relating to the lo(;a}_ seLl­ing of buttr,r were intolerable. The Price Board. a hard-hearted political l)()rly then, adn1itted that the position \Y<:L !~<lt is­factorv ,md most unfair to the sc:Jlinfi in tho loc~~l 1narkct. Uo:tucus pern1ission_,.~. hoiYc\·y~·· _ th~\ "\\'flS unable to meet (he po;;.iltJOll. l,1 c Jll­sun1ers pointed out to the Go\·0rnn1cnt if the position were to continue, rt nlPan th0 clcsing of son1e of t_he largest co-operative co1npanics in the St<ttc.

" ~fr. Lcnnon then allo1n'd the intpr­state export of 03 per cent. of the supplies of first-grade butter. The (;ovc, liUl('llt

itself began to buy at 14C ·. le s 2 per cent.

" In June, Melbourne prices were 184s. to 186s. ; London prices wen 154s. to 16DB. : Government fixed price. 140s

" On 22nd June, 1916, the Department of Agriculture seized a large ~:(;n;-:ign­ment of ftrst-gradc buttc·1· w1tn the avowed object of showing how the butter business should be conducted.

" The fixed price of butter in Briebane was 140s. There was a strong ten1pcrary demand in Melbourne for Queensland butter at 186s. Queensland factories deal­ing in local trade. naturally jihbcd . at sel!in" at 140s., while the few firms wlnch were allowed to export, •vere sellmg e~ual quaiity butter for 186s. on Pxport. The poition became so acut,, that tho Go­vernment had to find a- way out, and for that re,ason seized tlw butter as above stated, ;md prepared to dispose of it. :\fr. Lennon said frequently and loudly, ' I am the butter salesman of Queens­land.' 'rho co.operative coa1pan-ies, having the jntorest of the farn1cr_s

1 t,tt

ht:\rt, ndvise-d Mr. Lcnnon to sell quictdy hefora the 'Victorian market fell. They told him that the Victorian peoplA were getting very tired of the Quccn.,,Juncl hum­hugginro:, and they "\<Vould nut w ~c1t more th[t,n -t ',vo o'r three tnore {]ays bcf ore seeln·­ing their supplies from New ZPa~and. ~fr. Lcnnon took no notice of tlus ndYJCC.

vya1_J.,cl for ~:n days and then ;.:2nt 2)000 cao;c~-~ of butt0r to Victoria under the charge of the Govern1nent dairy expert. .F-Ie ~.vas instructed to sell the_m there.

" Before the Goy, rnn1ont con::.;igncd a, .t ··rn Australian buyer! fvfr. JYlanning, rod it 185s. The Government refused

the offer." ''The Government offered tho butter

at ~.,uction through Me"srs. Barrow Bros., in 'Yielbourne. 'l'hey sold ten cases at 176s. Subsequently they sold smail lots priv ttel~· at 165s. This was the . same butter for which they had previously refused 185s."

If that were evidence of the support meted

S1pply. [\J DECEMBER.] Supp.ry. 607

out to tho dairymen in past times ·when they ne-( c_l· d <Jssisbuicc, it was unfair and unjust. "11d Eot worthy of the rommunitv. It ~nts not ,v]~:;c to interfere 1.Yith the prin1ar:"' pi·odncf'r. If thP countrj' did not produce, and if .t.l10. number of primary producers ·decreR.sqJ, it was going to rL(i(:r;t upon their ('itv lif .' ~and injure the w·o:cking 1nan and lead to unemployment. Ho "J s prepared to admit thnt the l\1i;Jistcr for Agriculture was cDns~iontiously trying to assist. J]p \Yas pi'C­

p...,red to n::·ree "\vjth his statement that he did not believe the price-fixing of primary pro­ducts 'vas the correct thing, and that it would not f:.olvo thB econornic f'C ndition .. Production was the only thing which woul-d bring about the correct economic pv";ition ~~nd reduce the cost of living. It was an absolut·· fallacy to try and reduce tho high r:Jst of liYing by fixing the prices of :-~gricnltural --)r.ducts such as butter. It wns the product'on "l the men and women of Great Britain th11t ;~vc·d our Ernpirc and humanity in the gr, __ t'{ wa1·, and \ve could only save ourselYes l~v· uunedlv puJiing and wor.king together dnd n1aking· this a great producing State.

_Mr . .FERRICKS (South BriBbanc): Tho dtscusswn had ~cntrod almost cntirelv round the matter of the production and the price of butter. It .2enwd strange tha.t it should ha.vo been confined to limits so narrow. He had alweys believed, and he contended now, that price-fixing h'; d achieved a great deal in very abnormal circumstances, and t.hat its application was entirely warranted by the circumstances which prevailed. Price-fixing was. sometimes referred to as Government interference, and Government interference was denounced when it did not appeal to those affected. But on other occasions they seemed to welcome Government interference and to t-hink it was not such a bad thing after all. An illustration of that was the treatment of the sugar industry, that ha·d been subject to Government interference. It wns 11 good thing for the sugar-growers, the sugar-workers, and the people of Australia, that that interference took place at the instigation of the Queensland Labour Govern­ment. Again, GDvernn1ent interference in the matter of providing machinery for the recently-formed whe11t pool did not seem to be a bed thing, inasmuch as it guarante0d to the wheat producers .a price of 9s. 11 bushel. 'Within the last fortnight members on the other side of Ute Chamber even railed aiTainst that ·and proclaimed aloud that they ~vould rn.thcr ha;·e worl-d's parity. \Vorld's parity of wheat to-day was considcrablv under 9s. per bushel, and ·what was a goOd thing in tho cyos of hon. gentlemen opposite fourteen dnys ago, by therl1 no\v- ~vas rejectP-d .rL-. being altogether unfair. It was very str-ange that tihe

Conimissioner-~'.Yhoin, by the \Yay, [4.30 p.m.] he had never s•en, as [ar as he

kne\v-shoukl he Lcld up as a target, not only for cdticj~. n and {}enuneia­tion, butal,o for what r\rnounted to abuse nure and eimp1c. Because the prineipJe ,~a:; -wl·ong in the eyes of some peop]e, 01~ because its operatio:n.-z did not pan out to their satisfac­tion, Tv·a::; thnt a reason \Vhv i:ho pcr:::rJn carry­ing out the operations should come in for such eondeinn-ation? It sc-cn12.d a v-crv narro-..v vie".v to take. He 1-vanted to infor!n~ J11r~1:nbers opposite that, on the other hand. all refcr­<>nces to the Commis·-ioner in the citv of Brisbane and t.he larger to\vns and Other parts of Queensland had not been benedic­tions. In fact, domestic references to Mr. Ferry were often of a very uncomplimentary

1w tu:·r lL"Cil u~e the Comn1issioner had been instrumental in Taising t'he retail prices of m ny m·tirlcs indi~pcnsahlc to household u;c. But the neople wl!o suffered, and were suffering, undCr t.hose ~ncreascd prices for absolute nece"Srrrics did not rail against Mr. Ferry on that account; and he lT!erely wanted to di-abwe the minds cf members opposite of eny belief that :i\Ir. Ferry had given entire f-:ati:Jaction to those section . .; !Of the com­m~nity vvhich for distinctiv:e p~rpose_<;;: :vere n.fc'rred to a-;, rons1..uncrs. 1,~1e \....-OlntnJSSioner

had a difficult task to perfonn, and ·when both sidc3 c:1n1plained~and he, for one, coln­plained on behalf of the oonsumers-it 1vas evidence that he heel not done badlv. In Brish.'lne and the larger to·wns, even 'in the country, even in ~ro1vn6ville. there 1:rerc not -do7,ens' but hundreds of families who did not use butte~ thC>"l€ d~Ys. Thrv could not afford to pur<~hnrSc it at" 2s. 5~ci. (fiL~ar, hear!) Some of the statemenh; that had been ma.de wero very wide of the mark. For instance, the hon. member for 'Windsor, who was usua Uy not EO illog·ical, ad va need the con­tention that the Commissioner should not adjudinte on tho price of butter or any other product of a dairv unlc·,s he t-ook over tho management of a.· dairv farm for six n1onthB. rl_lhat staternent, soU:~nding ~,Q ridicu­lous as it did to him, was loudly endorsed by membern on the oppo'·ite side. If that system were to be adopted, it must be followed to its conclmion, w.hich would mean that every judge of the Arbitration Court would have to have persond experience in every industry represented in the plaint before hi1n; every police n1agistrat0, every judge in a civil actjon ·would have to have personal experience of the industry concerned. Such a suggestion was not only wholly impracticable but ridiculous; it seemed to lose itself in a bog- of absurdity. Such wild and exaggerated statements from the other side had not helped their case· very much before the bar of public opinion. Members seemed to want t.he world's parity for Aus­tralian products. but it anpoarod that they \vantcd jt \vhPn the \vorld's prices 1"\"'Cl'€· high, but not "hen the world's prices were low. They wante·d the protr·ction then of Austr11lian prices. They mig-ht say that they wa_nted !t both ways, but they could not have It both ways. Thov must .have whollv free trade or ·wholly prot'cction. It was .st~ted before the Commissioner by one witness that a pound of butter in one case cost 6s. 3d. to nroducc, and one hon. member last night ,aid that he knew a case where the cost went up to 10· If there were dairymen in Que .'n Jand turning out butter at ' cos': of 6s. 3d. per ll1., to say nothing of ~ cost of 10s. per lb., it W.lR tirrc thov were out of the callimr. Thev had missed their Yocation. and shocdd nevCr haYc gono in for it. If ther,-' \Vcro me.P;v surh dalr~vrncu in QnccnsLl:ad no vvonc:er if produrtion v af' fall in~ into the condition dtY'(':ibed b~,: n1cn1bcrs on t1., ~ other side.

Mr. cViORGA~ interjected. :VIr. FERRICKS: He did. For the

inforn1ation of tile hon. 111C'Inbcr who "\Ya.s 0nclcavouring to conyey \Yhat h(_' thought >l'as a sneer, he would tell him about that short cxpe.rienco of dairying-a r- ·•riud of t;,n y>t ars. It was in the da.ys of no butter factories and no co;-crcd ohed~ \Yhen he heard members speaking 1lbout the pioneers in the dairying industry, he wondered _where they were. vVere there any of them m the House? He desired not to be personal, but the men represented there were typical of

Mr. Ferricks.]

1308 Supply. [ASSE::\IBLY.] '!upply.

a g;·cat rnany .dair;pner: throughout Qu&ens­lanu who acqw:·ed land and let out portion on sharo fannmg and allowed the other fellow to do the work. At the time he spoke of. there were no butter factories and crC(l rn rhcqnes at tbe end of th(~ rnonth. It was a matter then of milking CO\Ys twice a day, and n.1nn1ng rounds tvvice u da v in the city and the towns, when the s ,iJing price was 3d. per quart. That was not a fair price, and that was ':vhv he condmnnocl the selling of commodities at less th,m their economic Yalue. \Vhou sugar \Vas bein(l' sold at 3~d. per lb. he held Dthat it was not the fair economic value of the commoditv. He was not saying now what he did not say during the election campaign, because, although he was contesting a city constitu­ency, he made clear in reply to a question that he for ono never .,-anted to sec the oast of commodities going to bedrock prices again, because somebody would suffer, and ~e h,ad had _ten_ years' suffcri ng in his youth m tnc ap];lllcatwn of that svstom. On the other hand, he did not b~ lieve in their soariner sky hi_gh. _Tpe pric_e of. butter was very high m lns opm10n-qurte lugh enough. Hon. members opposite said that dairymen had had two bad years, and now it was only a fair thing that the price for their product should recompense them in part for those two bad years. If a man went to the hon. member for Murilla looking for work, and the hon. member said, "I can glVG you a n1onth's \York 7 " and the man replied, "I ha Ye been out of work for two months because I was ill; will you give me three months' pay "? what would the hon. m€mber say ·1

Mr. MoEGAN: Does not the Arbitration Court allow higher wages for seaoonal industries?

Mr. FERRICKS : The hon. member wns trying to burk the analogy. He claimed recornponso for the dairymen on account of drought; then he (Mr. Forricks) claimod r€compenso for that workman on account of his two months' illness.

Hon. members opposite dnring the d-ebate, and during the debate on the \Yheat Pool Bill, were anything but complimente.ry to the Government, w horn they denounced from A to Z for their action in reference to th.D dairying industry and. th0 wheat industry. But it appeared to him that the Government during tho past five and a-half years h~d done sorncthing for tho pri1nary industrioe of Queensland. The Gm-ornment had made auvances of seed wheat, but when thd was

the IHP·vious rncmbers

accepting WCTC

Jnado GovcrnnJ<..:nt fhing prico nt 9s. a bushel. what did tlw hon. rrH;rnl ',:r frw IJruyton, as s110k JlYHlll

for th0 ·whL•atg:cOW8l'~, f ~tY? rfhe hon. 1D0!l1-ber saicl that, so far as the Queensland Govonunent y,,as concerned, they could koop their guarant{ B, as it was of no use to them.

M:r. BEBBIXGTON' I say it now. Mr. FERRICKS: The Government, ,;nen,

had done nothing for the primary producers?

IJ,f r. F erricks.

Mr. BEBBINGTOX' It has not given them ono penny.

l\fr. FERRICK~: Something had been sard about a subsidy, and ho would point out that the agncultural mdustry h:1d been roce!Ving· subsidies all the time in an indirect •:ay. That brought. them ':gain to the ques­twn of London panty, whiCh hon. members opposite seem so enamoured of. The price ot ch_ee.>e locally had been fixed at ld. per lb. higher than thG price operatino- in Lon­don to-day. \Vhy? Because the" manufac­ture of butter in Queensland was so inviting and the manufacture of cheese was so unin­viting, that it was nece"ary to give what was practically an indirect subsidv to the cheese industry by fixing the prio'e at ld. por lb. above what wo,s obtainable in Lon­don. If that increased price for chee'e was not given then, the supply of milk would have been diverted from the cheese factories to _the _butter factories, and the cheese fac· tones m Queensland would have suffered. The Government were bolstering up an industry with which the hon. member for Drayton was closely associated. The Govern .. ment had built numerous railwavs into agri­cultural diotricts before the Labour Govern­ment came into power. Those railwavs wore not paying concerns, but they were built to as,ist primary industries. The farmers had roc0ived additional assistance in the way of the upkeep of the Gatton College State farms, the "Agricultural Journal;, and !nstruction in t~e different disease> of plants, m the cane mdustry, and instruction in regard to stock. In order to maintain those establishments. the Government had to take money from the consolidated revenue which was contributed to by everv man .;,oman and child in Queensland-those people o~ whom hon. members opposite wanted to increase the price of butter. The Labour Government, in following out its policv which was designed in the interests of tl1~ primary producers, had, in the opinion of hon. members opposite, done nothing.

Mr. BEBBINGTON: That is right; worse than nothing.

Mr. FERRICKS: In the future, when deputations waited on the Treasurer or the Minister for Agriculiuro and asked for special concessions, would not tho"' Min· ictcrs be justified in saying that thov had :ridewoured to carry out the Labour 'policy 1n regard to primary production?

The bell indicated that th<, time allowed ~he hon: member by the Standing Orders Dad exp;rod.

·:ur. ICERR (T:noggrm): It was onlv natura.l t.hat the debate shou1d royo1vf round the Profitecring Act which was assented to in :\larch la:.t. The rnirtake in connc-ction had revolved round the vn:ong urnbit and h:t thP n;a,n. and the Prcmic'r r;hould tr kc steps r •pt;al it. The Act \V a P, po' ,"cd to clirninato the profiteer, who "\Yas a man 11:ho .did not prodncc anything, bnt \Yho handlcc1 other people's product·J and made 0xorbitant profits.

At fiyo rrdnutcs to 5 o'clock p.~1" ., ',Ir. KIRWAN (Brisbane) took the chair as

Tmnporary Chairman. Mr. KERR (continuing) : It was all verv

well under exceptional circumstances, such as ;duri_ng a time: of war, to introduce lcgis­latwn m regard to rationing and that sort of thing; but now they were getting back

Supply. [0 DrWEMBER.] Supply. 609

to normal, and the time was ripe to repeal the Profitecring PP·Yontion Act. He had the lJonour of repro,<3nting two comrnunities --one was the producer and the other the consnmf,r-antl those t,y;o connnunit.ies n1ust work hand in hand to a very large extent. A very severe lesson had br-en taught to them by the fact that the number of farmers had decreased bv 9,000. There was only one rcasen for the exodus, and that wa-;: They v;pr(' not being sup110rtcd by the Govern­tTl.cnL lt3Jl been brought u;lcl<'r the

rcgulat.in:n~~. and tlw Prirc Fixing -ionc1· had comQ down on the mai:J. land when he hould rmtllv have

on the profiteer. The Premier said that Queen-land dc;·ived

fnnn her fore;:;t. ,, field.:;;, n1inos, ThP~' in Ciucenslar;d pro 'tor l d rcq uirNl m.ost of.

rfh·'l,t \\~as "'\\1hcat, WOOl, ll1CJt, tin1b0r, dairy products, and bnso n1ctals. e· pce1a11v zinc, lead, 0oppc•·, and tin. And yet to-day they had hardly touch<•d the frin:<..J of the 110 -sibilitics of the i'Otate. The most imno;·tant thi;tg after primary production -..v'as the secondary 1:ndustric.:;. \Vithout the ono the oth0r . ould :not exist, and if they \Yore- .going to kill the one thc·y vccre g-oing- to kill the cth,"r. The opportunities to-day- £or Quccm­lan.d gs a. producing State Y\'(•re '\\"Ol1dcr£ul, a- they had nutrkets at their Yf'ry cloor. Thr>v l~ad the Pacific, ''"hich ·.\TB~ the ?dcdi­t·~rrancan of the E2st; th-.:y had tho Panama Canal, giYing :_L short rorttf' to Europe; then thr>y had China .. Java. and other markds open to tho State. But what struck him nrv fcrciblv \vas the fa· t that thev ·-···re not~ t,tkin~~- Udvantago of tLf;SC opl;ortlinitfC's: It \Yas ncc:·<::,~.al'V to discrim1natc behvr"n the produrcr nnd the profiteer and bctw ·~n tho nnnufadurer and th~ prof1tccr; and if the Go'i·ernn1ent -.,""1'0 ... ,.,.cry anyi"Jus to stop profiteering, it v;,:,J.,s cn]y ncccssar.v to stan­dardise bal-nce-eheds. If the Government. did that they would got. at the profit"er in ono hit, and it v:ot1ld not hurt the man on the land. The Price Fixing Cornwis::;ionrr '\VD/' set an in1possihle task. Take the matter of wool as an instanCE' That product vv~1"S sent oYerecas. and they paid Ja.pJnosP, Grr· mans. and other nationalities to manufacture that ;-;ool into marketable goods, when such wages should be paid to .Audralian workmen.

They got gloves, made from that [5 p.m.] wool, from oycro•Cas, and he

challenged any Price Fixing Cotn-111l:"Sloner to ~a:v what the price of those gloves should be, as he had to take iJJto C•)nsidcration so n1any factor3. No man \'>·as a blo to fix prices) as they fluctuatC'd from DTID da-n to another. In c0nrJnsinn, he wished to quote the of Jl.'lr. St'rli"g-'Ta,:v1or, the Director of tJnd TnJu.:trv :in Sv1cJbournf', \vho :nmrn(:.d un the ~-;itnntioD in a fow vvord~. Ho s:1_id- "

"\Ye .anc-1 \YO

BBttrr th o tyooc1~ than \'le ~n0 nnt in tlle ment in this m.attf'T, 1: 1t n~ n1en

1 of the hYo fdternati-.:.rcs. 1s only

one for th~ rnjnlary rrndt;r('r-viz., 'produce mnre,' and ba.-·k up with hard ca:-:.h, profitabl; in Ye" t,,d, a scc{,rid;"'ry indu.str>: l.Vhich. ran, if be so \~ llJ~. bO owned and controlled by the grower him­self, and which will ~ivc that e·:tm stability to the industry that is ne~oc .ary to draw from it all possiblo profit."

He thought that the .Art had !wen misinter­preted, and that, instead of getting the

1920-2 Q

right. rnan, thny hnd got the \Vrong rnan, and tho Act should be amended.

1Ir. BlJLCOCl( (Htt."coo): The hon. lllon:­ber for E!loggt'ra had fayourod thern ' ith a dcflnibo;1 of Y bat ccmstitEh:d a profiteer, and en that drfinition he had bas0d tLc assu~nptiDn ~hat there \Yas no justiilcation fo~~ t_bc app~111tn1ent of a P1·icc Fixing Coni­nYi:S51oncr. lJ o thought that tho hon. rno.n­her's d(flll_ition of ·,. l1at con fitr IJr '\\ rts IIad the hon. th-,t tl ' of

\'. TC Ifll!!lY

co11 i(lerat~on. hiH1 as

'"ith a good L,

H:e fa nncrs a.r.:-ount of tlv:i1· \•:hok world to-cla- y;,cns l'D~ult of a--rl'icu1ttlra.l d~, was 0xplai;1cd by the nwny

of people \YerE' dra\Yl1 from tho indur tries tq th2 n1ilitary field.

th~~.::c circun1 t~~llC(-;s, it was ouite to assurn-c that pri1nary produCtion

n1ud suffer, and that ''raQ, one Df th~ n1.:uu l'L'a:-::::ms why it had snfferctl. It had been indicated that quite a number of p\:~oplo h~.d .. bu.ndoncd thcil' agricultural pur,c_.uits and corno to the citicj, It YY~U said that son1e

peoplo hac! rrbandoncd their farms. \Y:s capabie o£ b''O p·'Zplanntion', cit.hcr

of "-hich was sati,factorc. The first was that, iu con1n1on with t}Je 'tend<'ncy in nearly evrry form of production, tL•,sillliJation \Yas

011. rrhe small rnan being a.)~irrn-1n the farmlna s iu~t ·

other industries. /:':) point' while thPr0 in

tlw Price \\'hat the retail s0 thd those

\'. ::igh vcr:v much \Yith hi1n (:~dr. l3ulcock) when it was claimed by hon. mnmlwrs oppo­SI') that the rcv.ult of pricf~-fixing \Yith rcg;u::d to butter ha.d been a diminution in the flow of butter or milk or tho suppl7 of olwc,,o in Queensland. The hon. member for Carnar­von indicated that the people who were engaged in the dairying indush'y were living under the most wretched conditions.

MT. Bulcoek.]

GlO Supp'1f· [ASSE.:\1BL Y.]

COWi a11d

tlw dc.irv \Vith "t-\"yo h!nning

pursnl7_ ho v-as :ng<tgcd n1. :E-Ic kn{J\V of rnrrnv lnsf;ar::r{;' \Yhcrc n1.·n \Vho had been d·· ir:,riJJg for sorne h..tcl abandoned the in,;ustry, not to tRkc un an- other iicJa of ag:ricultnre or industry~ bt~t Vl'l'Y fre­quently to live in the cid,:, and enj(w the r0 -er it of their industrv and thrift. · Pricc­fh::in~ nppc::11ed to hi'1n as being a, Ycry 8atisfactory arrangement. It had been claimed by hon. mcmb lrs opposite that the principlo. underlying· it \\.U.:-< unfair, but h(• thought rt was absolut,,]v fair that all cla·-ses of the comrnunity, TJlodncer· a.nd eon:~u1ners .alike, should bo subject to the Farnc rondi­ti.ons; for in:-:tance, '~'hen a n1an w·ent to sell h1e labour, the court determined vvhat he should bo allowed to .scil it for, ancl butter or cheese ''-''~,..; ': cntiallv i he outcome of labour. It hud elaiJ~led that 7\ir. Potts mndn the stet rnent that Is. 9d. represcntccl th,-_ ro·~t of prodncin~· D. pound o~£ butt'~r. He cl that J\ir. Pot"-:;; took cn'L•in

c 1nsich;r;·-tion ·when be W'lS deter~ n1iniug quc!:'tion. IJ P b-elievPrl that ;,r 1~. Potts VY<LS a c:<nable ofErcr of the ..:\gricu1~ tur l Dcntrtm''Pt, \Yith , on 1dt-·r;' l1le 0·~no 1-

-~ j tl. ihis dir -_ -::tion, but in cktcrrnii1ing 1 2-L 1; ~ ·; the cost of the production o-f

a pmn!.d of he trtok into cnn idcrrrtion the intc·,··c t on c:;pital involved -rd th::> cost of t1H• L:tbonr. \Ylwthcr the labour ,"'as !he f,-,_nncr':s O\Vn labonr or ctTlployccl labour, 1~ had the Prrrne relative value jn i:-; anphcili­~1011 ~o the dair~-ing herd, ,111d that -w,ls a fact thnt n1ust be taken into C'01l(;'idcration w~cn the co~t of prochtction 1vas bclng dct"r­mmcd. The balance between tho~e eo- ts ~.nd the total cost of the L'tail buthr to-dav '-''Tould repres-ent. the difference behvt)cn th'G co-t of production and thG retail cost of the C?mmodity, ancl that clifforGnce would essen­tially repr0sent the profit. It had been claimed that thov had not considered the world's paritv. 'l'he hon. memlwr for South Brisbane indicated that cheese in Australia was ld. per lb. above the London price.

7\fr. BEBBIOIGTO::-i : That is not so.

:lYfr._ BULCOCK maintained that it was. He chd not h_clievG that the world's parity would ever grve them a successful solution of their agrirultural difficnlties in Australiu. He be!inved in the evolution of an Austra­lian s0ntin1ent, not ani~~ in tl1e industri~l field, but in the agricultural field also. He regarded. 1=;rice-fi:xing as an application of the-e prmCJplos, and he believed that. with the a.pplif'ation of thoir economic conditions ":hich had not their corresponding eoonomi~ s:do m an;. other countr-: of the world thcv vvcrc going to n1ake prOg-ress in their' agr{­cultura] and pastora 1 are-as. 1.,his was not a uw department. One would think, to hear ho!l. member~ opposite talking, that the pnoes of agrrcultural products had never been determined before arbitrarilv or in the .manner adopted by' Mr. Ferry: Thev knew that the prioe of wool was fixed and there W<ls a standard minimum rate guar­anteed. The small selector in the pastoral

[Mr. Bulcock.

i:ndu ~tr':­i:h 'iJ U{

belt in

W<U 111 a cnrrr'er>nC' b'-- tho

du;rying with drought of

his lo. ''8S '"'iTTC

position tu Oll the inside

I--Io had to as great a

as great, and bank oYordraft

211 i-:::dic :~s han,ri11; c•.-or t: ie hcnds of the clairx- f:1rntcrs.. \Vhcn the

conld bring evidence to indi~ price was not r satisfc,ctory

orH~, tlw \Yllolc nuttter would bo subioct to reinye,,Jigation. Tho Pren1ier bad tal~cn up « Yory libPr<J,] attitude when he indicated that he ha<l no objection, and would table all the evidence in connection with the .inquir: into 1-hc priro of butt':r. He thought, v,-lwn they J'C':-1 ::-} the {'Vidt~l1f'e, the:~ 'YOUld agree with what l\1r. Ferry had said \Vas a fair. reasonable, and aYorage prir0 for­butter. It had been said that they had lost sight of the producers' interuts in the inter­ests of the con-:-umor; but their interests were so bound up, the one with the other, that it would lx· impossible: to penalise one section of tho community withcut a correeponding section of the co"nmunity-the consumors­fcding that penalisation. He bclievc:'d that this ,\·a;:;i an indication of the direction in which they n1itd1t stabili:.r~ tLPir agl·icul­tural prodLr~h. He, thNoforc, believed that 1t \n1s along the lines of the intcr0sts of the produo~r on the one hand and the con­sun1er on the othcr h'1nd thut thcv v\ ero going to arriYe at"son1e finalit•".,. in thi's direc­tion. rrtlC hnn. rnembor for CnrnarYon n1ain­t~ ined that the price of Yarious other agri­Cllllurel prodncls ehould lw fixed. Pcrhars. thC'--:· should, but it \Y- singular, to say the· 1f;ast of it. i:b-a~ v-hen prices did not. COYP-r

th0 C''JSt of produrtion thc7 hr)'l_rrl cri(".:l f01~ price-fixing: but \vhon the;· did coYer th2

of prod11ction. ond there was an oppor-of exploiting the consumer to the

arhanto g-e of the producer, thP:-- ~aid, "L0t. u, do nv.'a.v with price-fixing." Ho wholc­hcr-rt ~dlv enrlors-;d 1\fr. Ferr"r's actiYitv. But ho rero~nisod that tho da.ir~; farm.er, in com­~•1on \YJt.h CYC'rv other farmer in A ustr.a lia. hod had a pretty uphill fight, and that he was de-serving of everything that could be giycn him, provided an honest and ade­quate safer;-uard was introduced for the inton~sts of the consumer. No individual, whether he acted as an individual or as .,_ corporate body, should be per.mitted to gain any privilen;o at the expense of any other portion of the community. He believed that with the present fixed price of butter the dairv farmer would be amply recompens-ed. It had been indicated during the progrec.s of the debate that the dairv farmer should be giY~?n an opportunity of ~rerovel'ing- fron1 the a.dvcrs-e seasons from which he had suf­fered. Thc;r mig-ht apply the same arg-u­ment to evervbodv. Business men and every oth0r sc,ctionu of the cominunit--- suffered i~ nnsequenco of the drought. The worker snff·.'red bcrause hn ;yns thro"T,-n out of \Vork. If they made the proposition that the workers ,~:ho had been thrown out of '\VOrk for con­~idcrablo periods- in f'onsoquence- of drought v--ore to receive double pay, or 30 per CP·nt. 1noro pay, in order to recoup thE\ll1 for what theY had lost, what attitude would hon. g-entlemen opposite adopt? They would se.y, "You are setting out to ruin industry." Yet the same position obtained in regard to tho dairy farmer The solution, perhaps. did not lie along the lines absolutely of price-fixing as far as dairying or agricultural

pursuits \Vera cone rn('d. lie thr t.hne v:as not Zar (l;.- \Yhon ouid have gT\':ltcr t - f~r-Inm·3. ~ IIc cnuld in.~h,nco case Ylhcro thr-':e "\YC·r~~ n1nc dairy fnnn-'"'rs a row and thero onl v one deoent lot of cream from tho:m Yet c\-cl'y rnorning- a.n:- pc:..,~on who vas ob::'-'rYanb would :,eo n1n0 croan1 C\r' 1 going 2 long the road to L ko their stuff in; tb y did not trust e-.ch other. lJntil th-~ b_m:o came when the fanners trust1~d c::;,ch other ~:11d \Vorked on a n1ore t:ound, co-oporati,,o basis, there ('ould be little lwpo 0f pro;:-re s. Ho lPlicvod a greater eztonsion of the system of testing hcr.ds. and the adoption of other prin«' iplc' whwh were sadly lacking a1nongst tho dairy farmers to-day, ·would pJacD the industry on a fa.r n1or,_, sound, eoonon1ic bas1s. I-Ie would like to comn1ont on a rmnark pasRed by tho hon. m0mlwr for Townsville. He was speetking; of a resolution placed bdoro the Town8\·illo conference in its application to tho puh!ic service. and he insinmtted that it "\Va<:J a tc~rrih1e thi11g tbat the nuLlir ~·t·rvice should he asked to do what' the Govern­ment rlotennin0d. Thoro "\vas r:.~Yolution when the people would not do whn~ the Gov 'rnnwnt dot<errnincd thov should do. 'r!n Govern~n";)t i:)'_ n~d thn ultimahi1n c f f'nn­duct. and if th~ people broke away froi'1 that condnct, th(ro ,,.-o_s rc""~:olutinn. It ·wnuld be jntC<rP<:.!Jinrr- to •r.:c0rt· in v.:h' f.!~Pr thn hen. :nc:nLber. f{;: T~)WT!sv1IJ,o ~.~·as r:ctnnlly atternpt­Ing tO "!.nC:t Jf?' H0 rovolu" ron 111 the ranks of the pu)J!ic s.cn·ice.

]\~[r. ) TOO RE S'lid he wanted to support the !l1oti·!11 for the~ rnduC'tion of 1 h0 vott\ beca!t·C' h:-~ ·•.::lid not bc>1l('YO in pric•-fixing tRt t~lJ. and he <lid not tlnnk that -..yas mcald.-, to apnJy to pri·mar.v ir:dustries. It savour<•d of p.:."l~.it1ca1 :intcr£cecnr''1. In tho rcoort of the Comn1_i~sion0r of Prir'-·s thcv carnO across two or three paragl·aphs. On8 s:t~d-

" On the question of general principles, the conference finds t~lat its 1ncmbors are in g< noral agreement, and ha Ye already been ading in suhotantially the s.1mo way. They have h<'en imposing control _only where inquiry has shown that prices were being charged which allowed undue profits to the sellers of the commodity. This com·se places on a. C?mmission the obligation of con­srdenng the reasonable interests of the seller as well as those of the buyer, and of so fixing prices or maximum rates of profit as to leave the aYerage seller a reasonable net profit on turnover after allowing fairly for average overhead expenses; otherwise the result might be the discourageme.nt of production and of busine.';" :d enterprise."

They fonnd on page 4 tho fullowing, under the heading "Concerted Action":-

" 10. As tD concerted action, the con­ference l1as agreed on the following course so far as it proves practicable:-

(1} vVhoro the Commission in any State has inquired fully and recently into tho price of a commodity freely transferable from State to State, and control oi pri:·,;s or profits has there­upon been imposed, then the Commis­sions in other States will treat the findings of the first-named Commission as a prima facie guide for their deliberations, subject always to any variation necessary to meet particular local conditions."

Gll

~-..:>;,,· of ~\,..(_:\V

Sou, :1 Fixing Co 1-.:.1n;i indu~try

llJ f't-;:, \Y ales. Thr -agroen1cnt th<.l ~ bPcn Inadtr Rnd bo taken

" ·, thev find ? V.,"h·)n ~ the elPction can1o along ,1, ·sort of politicrJ ~ignifica!lf"'2 attached to it. Ho djd not. believe the ProHtecrinr- Prevention Bill ·.vas {:Yet rncnnt to apply to primary indus­tria'. The l¥1inister who introduced it stated that the public \VOro in th~ !-~-rip of cominer­cial cormorant'. He could not call the farmers that. A littlo further on ho said-

" Then., again, the primary producers· are subject t<J trenwndous hardship and suffering on account o£ this profiteering. The primarv producer to-day is being unfairlv harassed. and the men who want to pro-due•' woa lth aro being prevented from so doing because of the profiteering tl:[lt takes place. Representing, as I do, an agrjcnltural constituencyj I have seen the difficulties and k,rdships of the pri­rnary producers) and I kno1.v tho repre~ , 0ntations that havP been rr'J,de to me in support of a n1ra.suro of this nature. Ji};0rything that th9 primary producer

ant-.;-iron, v;ire, buildinr; daterial-:is of such an exorbit.1nt nrice that 1H3

t'lnLot purc~~nso it to-da~l'"- This Bill '""'ill prGtoct the primary product::r a& well as the returned solJicr.'' sort of protc-cti':n. they got ,., as, \V hen

in Aush·alia was equal to \Vhat it the Price Fixing Commissioner

( nP1C and rc:Jacod it. Via., it a rr:1so:nable thing that the producer in Queensland should get a le~· nr price than tho producer in the rest of Australia" 'When tho rate of shear­ing \nts fixed in the different States, Queen~­land-although the GovNnment boasted "1t had lower rate of living-did not have a lesser rate fixed. Tho men here received the same price as the men in New South \V ales. Why should a man, beoouse he hap­pened to be a primary producer, got 36s. per cwt. loss in Queensland than in the other States? They had had it suggested that a man who made cheese got. 1d. per lb. more than the world's parity. As a matter of fact, he did not. He got ld. per lb. more than the price at which it was on 31st March. because they preiorred to take a stabili8ed price rather than risk shipping on consign­ment-which to-day was a little higher than the price fixed. \Vhen thcv had a free market, all the primary products were taken out of the hands of the price-fixer. He v;as yery glad to hear the Premier suggest that that might bo clone. The cheese indus­try had to right itself. \Yhen prices wont down in the world's markets, no price-fixer would be able to keep the prin•o up here. Thev had to take the outside 1narkct rata. rrhe}7 never had price-fixing ·when there was a bi?." supply. Before th~ war the;.· had to take the world's prices, and the same prin­ciple would have to operate again. Price­fixing only operated in a time of world"s shortag·e and scarcity.

'The SECRETARY FOR AGRICULT"CRE: You believe that price-fixing should be abolished for all time?

Mr. MOORE: He did. He did not believe in it.

Mr. Moore.]

Gl2 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

The SECHETARY FOR ..:\GRICULTURE: Do you believe in a guaranteed price for pri1nary products?

Mr. MOORE: Ho boiioYc'd in a guaranto2d price under the pres~'nt conditions. If they were not a1lowed to take the price which \Vas available in tho outside markc~f.,, they shouJd havL a guan1nteed pl'ice for that which \Vas kept in Australia.

Tho SECRETARY FOR \GRICULTURE: HaYo;; ou soon the Imperial contract for the export of butter? The \Vord;;,; " the exportable surplu·· o£ Australian butter., occur in it. \Vhat do thc~;e \vords mea11 '?

l\Ir. MOO RE: Thev me:mt tho exportable surplus a.iter AL tr::• lia had been t. ~Ipplied. ThG'-' did not \v:1ut to ruu Aastrtliu short, but ·if they could not export their otuff and get tho prico it \Vas only fair thr:tt a p;_·ice should be guaranteed ~"hich \vould pay those ·vvho produced tho butter. If they ilxed the price for goods -~shich utn1c front they did not conv~. A lit-;::.1~ y,~hilo .a­prices \Voro f!':ed, the bca.,ta \-.. cro and the a rticlcs di-d not corne, and to do v.-ithout then1. l-Ie quito

the 1:Iinistcr for A [5.30 p.n1.] price-f1xing

rnuc.h gocd. ·was nut going to be: of any They kn •w perfectly well thrrt a .. price \vas granted for butt~1.~, the sup __ .ltes to eh(- ese factories \You id de--~rcasc because it \Vould nay the farmers to go in fo1· butter, but a3 the demand for cheese bccanw greater a.nd the ""U.pply ~Qrcor th0 price of che(!80 would increase contpurati•lely and the thing would right itself. On 31st March next, thelG vvcu.ld have to be a I!CV\" contract for cheese and the eh er :·e nH.tnufactuTets \Yould have to .:;ubrnit, whatever it vvas, as they did la~t time. It was all Ycry well for hon. mcm'wrs to t.nlk about what the Commonwealth did, but they did not sell the butter. The British Government took the whole of the risk of getting the price, and sirnilarly, with cheese, thrro was ·31 question rs to v.rhcthcr the producers would be able to get it a\\ 'l-V. and when other people took the responsibility, am! the:v had only to put in to the wharf, they thuught it best to [:iet a sLbilised price. It was absurd to think that d_iffcru:t St:tt -s in ..._4-_ustralia, \YOrking nndcr the s:tn1o condi­tions-and nohody could say that the dP.ir·,-ing i_,dnstr? in Queensland 1vas n1orc profita~Jlo than in South ~7 ales-should noverthc-lc.s be different prices for their r:ornmodlty.

The SECRETARY FOR ..:-\GRICULTL!\E: Land is hero than in ·victoria and ?\ ovv Soath

~ fr J•,J:OORE: In va:.·ts jt 1vas, but t~1e hr-re were more capricioua; the rain­

\YHS not so cortain. The SEC1U.£ARY FOR AGRICT:LTURE: It is a

bt•ttt;r' inter here. l\fQOTIE: And there \vas fr;r t}p utilisation of tho Pm~c.!Tf:R: Thrrt is bccau '" Queerosland

goocl goYc!·nnlcnt. (l-IE':-tr. hear!)

l\-Ir. ~IOORE: Queensland unfortunntrly had not, and that was the reason for the pos.:tion to-da..-T. He cou1d take tllo Prcn1ier !'O'Uld di :1-ricts and sho·N hin1 things which vvou:d make hi1n understand what it rncant to the farmers. A large number of them had not an opportunitv of getting on their feet again after the drought. Some time ago

[Mr. Moore.

sorn: of th:-n1 nwde application for assi.stanco nnder tho Co-orJCrativo Ag1·icultural Produc­tion and ..~_\_dyanccs to Far'tY ors Act, but they eou1·ri not g'et it because they had no security.

one "'·Torkcd for nothing and sa1v every· goi 'g behind, and still had to work and

get nc,thing foi~ ono's product \Yhen people i;1 ''\'\Te~t Australia an.·cl other State:" \Vcre u·:>ttit~lj higher price.;;, it n1adc ono disheart­cn~d and .say, ': \Yoll, it is not .~l~U~~ use

on 111 an 1ndn~~rv such a.'3 tn1s. He think tho Prcri\icr realised the bad in cvhich those people were.

Th~: Pn.::_,~IE::t: I mu hc~ring a ycry ha.rd­hi''k stor~·.

31•·. :;",f()ORE: It vva:.; not a h2,rd-luck tor~· .r\. 111~cn oftr:n h<-'.1. to keel) a lal'g-O

?l1L ~~bcr nf CO\YS tb.D.t '\\'CTO dry Hlld rEd ,\nt into profit for a considcl'a)blo tin~o

· He vas lo~ing all tho far;llcrs T,·ero th· ir statcn!cnts,

boa ·.tee\ of t ho pc'l r>nC' thcv ha·d

y •l'"·01l.S Thp-- haci lw.d. tho J.lon~;c that cvcrybndv ,_·d G:::;v shonicl' ho~ cl

0Yn of thr

cxp0n~e.

J1C''i~ ;c~ll nror; 111da, ~111d .did it 110t ,J'C'nl

~, ._trn0rdi·l~ny th;,t :nether inquiry had to be held ]n Queensland fter the agr( nmcr•t has ];,..~n made and the inquirv held in Nc~.v South Wnlcs? - •

Th0 PH~~:aER: It \v,•s fixed without inquiry in :t\.cw Scmth ·wales; they held the inquiry t1Jt0t1-\' 1 rd- .

:\~1· J\100RE: B1;t thr C~1nr:ni~siorcr cf~n­:firmc'd it after inquiry. \Yhat ,~;as the good of 1naking an agroc·n1ent and then, because it suit0d f'TlC St,~tc, bre~tki~lg it? \Vould not nch C"'PTlc:uC't .o;ivo tho Premier the feeling

Hnt tl"wre '<,as politic '11 inf:luenc2 in jt somc­whero?

The PRE;\IlER: The Cqrnmi~fjlonc1.~ had no altcrnntiYe hut tD fix it.

Jlch. :\IOOTIE: There was no o 'casion for th -, GoYerninent to put butter in his hands. .A.. proclamation had to be issued in oach en'" bv tho GcYcrnor in CounciL ThA Com­niis-;ioller did not take action on his o\vn injti~ti,~C'.

The SECRETARY FOR AGEICUL'f1;HE: \YilJ ;·on rwt n:lmit that '"hen the ComrromYcalth Govcrn·ncnt handed it oYer to us wo increased the price?

2\1r. did, but tralia. If th,c hand' y.-onid not rcrfcctly introducr(1 de •l with that no

} ... ws­into

prire

to say coannercial c,Jrn!orant or a.

Th0 Pni~:JT:!tR: \Yhat do you include Jn "primnry product:-;;"'?

:l'.h. ::\IOORE: Butter and cheese. ThB PBE:\IIER: They al'e ma.nufactur0d. Mr. 1\IOORE: TheY were manufRdmed bv

the farmers m their o\Yn co-onerative factories. c

The PnE}TJER : vY ould vou call boots and shoes " primary products;'?

Supply. [9 DECEMBER.] Supply.

Mr. Jl,lOORE: I\o; but he would call leather a primary product.

The Pru:::\JIER: Ti1nbcr, coal? Mr. l'IIOORE: Ye 1; but the Govcrnnwnt

had not fixed the prices of the other articles he had mentioned.

tinJbcr,

fixing think

:\ f 1'. ( !)ort C1rrtis) : fie was ~orrv arnc~1d1 "'-~nt d~d no~. provido for 'the ' r 't 'h

1_. ,0\J~nco-ll~lng ~~1 ogcL er, be aus-e {i..d 1:or: ~_,nL.k pncc-fnung \Voul·d haYc any g;od rc;~u1ts in the Of over-:-·onting high pri<:c'. In a titne --., ar, or lll fx:tracn~dinury rhappcnin[f" it rni~ht be very ncces·sary to fix prien~ .. :J:..J.t such Circun1-

di.J not exist to-dav. In ("Jnnoction very tlw t th< v wanted to fix

the price d, as llctrol imd ·oft goods, thP Pri('O Fi::'~ing c." ~Nas poworlc':S U!,.hr i.he la1r. Th" derived bJ tllG 'York0r O\Ying· to the fixation of prices V\rnre n1crP i ~w.gin:try thnn rcul. As a n1attcr of fact

ftxin§{ oi' 11riccs did n1oro ·har1n th-an good: Jt rct'lrdcd production, and it was

product-ion that ,~~as going to bring :;:ts:J in th0 cost of Jivin."'. If

\\·--~s il:f're·tsing and the s-Lrpply h -~ n~ lii g·h prices. not­

nf the• Connuissioner J-.:.~Hl'<-11 of t~ ing~. pr:{'cs dropped

3GO per cent. Th, t · of hides this

\'( cheap shortly. If then

aft nn l;cny o£ tinre, SIO.' : l' C ?'~ \" :11

h·~ 1d of . the· '.rLL of ! l1c <~c1·ir,g· lhc co·:c~:tion-;; o~

J-H'opl{• \\ r ·t d( al

years

hard time indeed, and now that they had the opportunity of g.otting a good price for their product'. in all fairness the,- should be allowed to get th:1t price. Tl1o export price of 274s. was fixed by tho Imperial Governn1tnt in a se1LO brcauso of tho harsh tim~.. dairy far1ners had experienced

he)~:.

_L\_ust.n;_lia' and \Yhilr r·.:e\v South ~VictoriH gG.Ye tho export

C\nc( 1.- nd did not. they c+-ction time to fri0nd l''·· One plc dtn·ing

n~c l'('ll)(ll'k rctarv ~. hc11 lw ]n·icc•~flxing wrong, Hltd he looked upon

t~Ir.

the t.o

he would lw the

iatter P'ttt of h; _ . ..,p 't•ch.

:'.h-.

nwHcr r-ight "\', C'ro no lK·ttc-~ off nov

\Ycrc bcforc, pricc~ftxill':' "\V<l, at1optcd. m"Jtcr Df fetet tbc co._t of living hnd gone,

,-.:rvlil:· up. It comi.ng dovi-n no\v • of the >Sons, and it would do-~ n ,,-ithout Fixing Cornmis-

.\t tf'n In1•;.ntC's to 6 o'clo..:k p.n1., :\lr. S:'lilTH rF~urr1~d the ohair. Mr. DEACON: The y·hole bnsinoos of

prirc~!txing· hacl bc·cn 1 failure. \VhC>u tbe ·world's rn';rket dropr-,__d the producer >,vould havo to accept a low0r price ·and ".hy not give them the hif(h price now'! The workers er nld g·o': mneh cheap choe .• c and cheap butter as liked if tJICy ca.reJ to go into tl10 country nnd \York for it.

:VIr. SIVA Yl'\E : Ho c.upp0sed tho question of the fix::1t!on of price~ 1L' d } ~en disc~u;scd thonnnd' of Ever since the

£or the fixing and over again,

.rn1'1 and rnade things 'YOl'SC to rcf0r to the

CUll1G

for 1-Ierbert in industry. The

the ·Govern­in that

rose to a point of order. "nre the Conlnl.ittc_' IY<ts not

nricr of bad to t1Jc of

C:E-T.:\IE:,L\:::'\: There i:-1 no po!nt of

191j. 'llf;rrr .,_,, s 1: ~ng vi( '_imi (- b.onrds

South Wale the Go\'Cl'lln1cnt se . .:.t (!_ the

u.nd g.-t sum•: ju~tico .<.1.t ilu .. JW~]ok. When the matter

up discus')i( ~~ in the Quecr1.:Jand

!Yfr. Swayne.]

[ASSEJ\IBL Y.]

l'li- 1(;f'ltt.

1/rlJ·,-,,-,} P 'JdJ :- !L he

said thny

The IiDistcr for it sDn1e n1onths ago.

")Jr. IIunter: ~qnd the Premier said to-Ylight that su~ar 1vae too cheap.

• ' :.\ir. rrHr:ODOR£ : yes, the Chief Secre­tnr\' wante·cl a h]gher prico for sugar. The t would mean clearer living for the prDple in the State. I do not think we cmo draw any other evidenco from their rernarks.

" :Mr. E. B. C. Corser : Two pounds per ton would not mean much more for the consumer.

" Mr. THEODORE: Here is another expression in favour of dear living. It may be only !,d. per lb., but several pounds of sugar consumed each week \vould mean several pence increase."

Raw .sugar was then only about £14 per ton. and yet Mr. Theodore objected to an incrL"~sc.

(Sitting suspended jro11• 6 p.m. to 7 p.m.) J\Ir. S\YA Y::\E (continuing) : The hon.

member for Herbert mc:ttiDnNl Mr. Tudor, the leader of the Labour pnrty in tLC' Fcd:)ral l_)nrliarnl-nt. In 1!=:17 the gro1-rer~ were only g•'lting £18 a. ton, \\·hich Wc<S felt by those engaged in the iL·lu +ry to be far too low, and the 1natter v, a-s bid before 1\lr. I-Iughcs, who raised the pric~. to £21 a ton. On thal· occasio11. when a Bill 1vas brnugLt before the Federal Parli:mwnt to d~al with thP 1natter, Mr. Tudor :-;1.id-

,, I do not blame any Treasurer for doing his best for the 'state, but I do object to the Commonwealth handing OYer £500,000 to the grower at the expense of the consumer" of the Common· wealth.

"Mr. Riohard Foster : \Vhen that money was transferred was there not a condition that tho m·ico should not be raised to tho co.nsun1er?

"Mr. TuDOR: The Government abso­lutelv contwllcd the price, and if the growers are not content with the £500,000 and wish to make additional profits out 0f the consumer, they are unreasonable.

" Mr. Corser: \Vhere was the .£500,000 obtained?

" Mr. TuDOR: It was obtained by charging the people of Australia more for their sugar than P1ey ought to pay."

Iiere \YlS another instance where a rise to the prodw Prs was opposed b3· the Labour party. \Vhen the qucetion of an incrortse had arisen hon. members opposite had generally opposed it.. In 1918, a conference of sug-ar-gro\vers, representing the members of the "Cnited Cane­gro\\ ('rs' ~Association and the Australian Sugar Producers' A~:;ociation, \Yas held, and a !?~elution was carried asking for a, rise jD tLe prir.e of sugar fron1 £21 to £24 a ton. :Nlr·. Th0odore at that time said that it would not be wis,, tD make the increase. All through. hon. n1ernhers opposit0 had taken np .at first an nntagon1stic stand, but v:hcn t·hey

[.Mr. Swayne.

rcrorn­Pre:;;;s.

Oil thn {)ll 27th

'd that he re\{11CSt, but

nn no..;TeG•lit:Dt bet\Vf>CU tTn:wcnt and th2 yatious hodies

cnncc·rued indu:;.;trY. ..::-\s outcon1e o£ thHt d the~ u State C'rn·ncnt joined in mov' :11t!nt., '.vith the rr•Eult that che agreement v·as laid on the table of the Fc-·kral in 2\farc.h lrrst. T·he hon .

HerbL?rt had mado somD reflec-upon the leader of the Countr:v party

ju the Federal ParliamPnt, 1\Ir. l\fc\Villiarns, but he might mention that when Mr. Powell, the DlT .ident of the ·united Caneg;rowers' A' .co~i0tion, eanw back to J\Tackay after his rnission to IV1elbourne on that occasion, he reported that it vva._, O\v: ng to the ~o?d offices of Mr. :McWilliams that the Dill went through without any vote being taken.

The SECRETARY FOR AGRICULTURE rose to a point of order. I-Ie submitod that the discussion bv the hon. member had no relation to the 'vote, and that if the h0n. nlPmber \\ ~ntcd to Ul'.Q,'e a repeal of the Cane Prices Regulations his opportupity wc;uld be found on pege 116 of the E,t:mates m con­nection ,;~ith t.h0 Regulation of Sugar Cane Pric cs Act. The whole of the ,c(iscu '"ion had ~bingt>·J. ronnel the prjce of sugnr and eug·ar­C'·'.ll~·. r~nd had nothing- to do with this vote; it::. pr1c0 vr·as ltxcd under aaothcr Act a.ltoge~hcr.

The CH AIR~\1AK: The vote de tls ,,,·ith the activlbcs of tbc COJnmi~:-.!oner of Prices. on lvhich an P tncnd1nent has been moYed. Since the yote was first moYed, there has been consid~:rnblc rli""U'~ion of cvC'rything affect­ing price-fixing, nnd a good deal of latitude has bcc,n allmvcd in di cussing the quo· tion. There is no doubt that the mattc·r which the hon. member is no1v discussing Ett. length would be more properlv dealt with on the Agricultural Estimates. ' However, the dis­c·LJ'.,ion of matters which arc affected by price­fixing is quite allowublo on this vote.

0PPOSI1'ION 'fE~IBERS: Hear, hear ! Mr. SWAYNE: He would avail himself

0f the Chairman's ruling. It was mean on the part of the Minister to try to curtail discussion on a subject which he ha.d initiated hims<M. Price-fixing had been tried over and over again, and had failed every time. ·when it was first brought up some years ago, ho had pointed out that it was likely to be a great Jiscouragmnent to production, a.nd that had heen b0rne 0ut bv events. 'fhe dairv industrV' had suffered 'in consequence. I-Ie had rcpoi·ts from dairy factories in the 1·inryborongh district, showing in one case a los1 of £27.000. and £7.000 in another case, and the di~cnssion to-da,y showed that that position still continued. The only justifi­catjon for pri( 12-:fixing- was tl1c exist0nce of combines and mono no lie'; then legislation in the interests -of the people became necessary. As long as there was com­petition price-fixing was unnoc.cssary; in fact, it was an m·il, and would generally brin::; about thD reversD ciTect to that for whi< ,h it was esb• blishcd. .According to the da.ilv Press. th•e hon. membel" f0r Dower on tho proviou• day •aid h~ believed that

[0 DECE~IBER.] Gl5

: 0 rdcr ~ Order ~ rccogni.~u tlwt any actiCJn

\Yorkc.;_·s does 11ot co:me with-scope; thi~ Yot.e.

I\lr. S'.YAY?\E: I-lo 'Yns rt1luding to ::oJnc of the ~touncls \Yhich they thought the Pric.; Fixi11g Co1n1ni::::>ion should take into con­sideratiCJn.

The CHA TRi'.L\.K: Order ! I would point out to che hon. member that tho Commis­sioner of Prices hr- ,, no coHtrol over fixing the price of labour. 1le rrln··t confine his rmna.rks to connnodit:c" v.Thich are sold at fixed p1·ir-0"' nt the pre.~ent ti.!ne, and are con­trolled by the Con1IniF;·,-Joner of PriceR. Tho hon. nH~n;bc1· Inlu-t rccogni~~e that the Coinmis­sicnor of Prices has nothing to do with watcr.idc ·worker::;' cL lrns or auy other indus­trial wCJrkers' clain1s.

:\lr. SW"'cY~E: The hon. member for Bowou had gone into that aspect of the nlu;;;tinn. and hP YYns sin1nlv rf'.)lvinP" tn his e'tatements. \Yithout p~;:tic-uY~;~isiJ~g ·-any body of men he might say claims had been put in b:r so•nc workers for pay of 10s. an hour on Snndny. Co,vs had to bf' n1ilkcd on Sunday, and if ihe hon. n1crnber for Howen was prcp.ncd to collccc!c the principle of equal pay for all da•·.•e.s of worken, he would nsk hi1n what \Yas buttc>r liln'ly to cost at such rates a.s those'? Ct rtainlv if those ,vho worked in other o'-;cupations \S~-er(• entitled to 10s. an honr tho man \Yho n1illu:::!d CO"\YS \Vd.S

entitled to ir.. Agai", he would ask hon. gentlentcll on the other side, son1e of \vhorr1 thought tho pn,,ent price of butter was quite sufficient and favoured a forty-hour week, what would be thn price with two sets nf lwnds to carry on a dairy farm? He contenJcd that if thc:;:c conditions were fair for one bcJy -of workers, thf y \Vcre fair for another. That ""''.S an aspect of the question that must give food for thought. He had a book written by Mr. H. L. \Vilkinson, member of the Price of Goods Board in Victori 1.-one whom thev would look upon a.s bc'ing favourable to "such schemes. He said at nage 62-

,, No effort and no 8'\:penso had been spo.red by the various State Labour Go­vernnH?nt;-; in their efforts to prevent price,<:; of commodities from rising, and tlw administration of the seYcral Acts had, genPra1l:y speaking, been conscien­tiously narricd out, although no guiding print ~plcs or forn1ulae appear to have been aLlDpt·· d in fixing tho prices."

On pU\"C 65 lw compared the cities where price-fixing had. been tried and where it had not been t;·icd, and shmYcd there had been vcr~, little difference in prices. I--ie pointed out that in son1c 11lacc." \Yhere these tribur.'11s bad not sa.t prices were lo'\'f'l' th~tn \">There· th0y hnd. lie wanted particu1ar1~, to c<::.ll attrPtion to th<:. stato·e11Pnt l:v Dir. D. R. I-Iall. .. Attorn<·Y-Gcneral in l\"ew South \Vales, who a lminictercd th-e price-fning legislation of th::tt S~ t:. I-Ie c:.;tinHlterl tLe ~·Jxings

,~~:re IP<ldt> to <'Dl1::iUmers <.n a r..-~"'ult rc~~llab1!,:::;· th~ tr~dc- }n cc•rb1in

~-\1t Jf''-C'tlu·r 1t ran -:.nto son1e

hnl!ch·. eh of thousands of pouncb. It v:cnt 011

b ar;nrr out the L .... rn~c1~ \Yas the

contention that the local one who suffered bv· it.

Duri tlH::,

En1perot~ DioeJ~tia.n, was tried, .:uJd this

\Yac; l'Csul• 3-

" \Vhcn he (the Emp-eror Dioclctian) brought on r~ sktte of c::.::c-,eding

c bv his different of he t"ricd to fix bv the>

articlo2.s offered for saJe. Then­uncn for the veriest trifies 1nuch blood \Y~as shed, and, out of fear, nothing 1-vas offered for sale, and ,earcity gn?\V 1nuch wm·<c, until, after the death of many person.s, the law \\as repealed fro1n rnere lJCC('! sitv."

At ,l!hc tin{e of the French R.,_:volution the sarne L1i11g· happened. The farrncrs \vere conunancl: d to bring their produce to the city gates, and after a let of cruel\ y and cx:ccutlons thr.! whole thing brokt~ down a.nd thfJ ,cheme had to br abandoned. Ho,,-e,·er, this gentlen1D..n sum.n1e:d up the case in two paragraph:;:. Ile pOIJ?tcd -out -on Pfl:g.e 118-

H Tnking indiY1dual con1n1orhhe ... , there haYe been tnanJ cas(~3 in \vhi~h the ac~ion of the St.·,to in fix1ng max1n1um pnces has iustified it ,f 1£-frorn the consu1ners' point of vie,Y, at any !'ate. CcrLtin selling rates, which w0re givjng unreasonable nrofits to holders of cupplics, were de­~rc~J .. ~ed us a rc:ult of fixing a ftatutory price, and but for GovcrniJ.lental inter­ference no reduction '"·ould have been mad<'. On the other hand, fixin2" prices of '·2V\.. ra.l other con1mc dities has resulted in no r, duction of prices, bnt has pro~ bablv !, d to decreased suppliu and, in

·end. to higher prices and combina­in trade."

On pnc:e 123 he said-,·, No doubt a reduction in price for

the time being ITJa? be effected by fixing a low rate even in competitive conditions, but "hcther this makes for ultimate eroonon1y and lo1v prices is ver"' ques­tionnblo."

~-"gain. on page 125, he said-,, ·when, however, supply is elu.stic

it will immediately respond to a varia~ tion in price, and when there is no n1onopoly control, then to fi:c prices. is both unnecessary from th· pomt of v1ew of consumers, and will have exactly the reverse of the degired effect."

As a matter of fact no commodit,ies were more elastic and responded with an increase in supply to a rise in prices than agricultural products.

The bell indicated that the hon. mombor's time he,1 expired.

Mr. GILDAY (Itlwca): There was no doubt that in condmnnir;-;· price-fixing, n1em­hers opposite failed to re".L-e the gr· at hn.rm they IH'rP doing to the lH'1ma17 pl'oduccr. Perhan; that V/as not to ho wondf'rcd nt ,, hen 'thev realised that-he suppos~d-the n1ajorjh 'of 1nornlwn sitt.ing oppof->itn \vere not dai~·v fatmcrs, bnt had farn1s which they ran on "a "hare sY:o::tcrn, and not on(~ \vord was ~aid about ;;;t~bn1itting to the Co1n1nis­sionpr the proftts of the lnndlords who O\Vned th -farms. and the arnount they l'\'quirod fro1n ihP unfortunnt~ m.::11t 1vho h<J{~ to do the work. Price :i-:.:ing was R J'_'e:-;r.!'nise.d

Mr. Gilrlrry.]

616 Supply. [ASSEI\lBL Y.] Supply.

principle throughout the Commonwealth. One of the things tho farmers used was kerosene, another p·ctl'ol. \Vhat vvoulcl have bccu tho prices of those cornn1odities if 1nict :; ha.d 110t bLC)n fix·rd 7 Uonsidoring the conJL1ne" that contrDlled th01n, it \vould havo b( ..;n praciicully in1possiblo for tho farnH'l'S to t[, 'nl. It lol:g since

\Yh(-.11

in hllo>Y, np lw ~1 control

furn•~r got -:!lt ti-OYC'l'!1~i.C 1t ea ":10

di.,OI!t.) The far-du:i:in.rr the L~~t liYo

in the hic-t,~·rY of that price fixing

to the peopiQ of prin1rr,rv~- pro1du~cr.

\Y11o hr:.tt b->;n , for rn '.lly year.:_, told hln1 yesi.:tr~

tlH' ...._\{!t \LLS one- of tho b:-st nicocs. of the Government had pa":"d, and

1£ lt \YOl'C not Ior 1~1r. Ferry, the v.rould Le prarticrrlly unable to buy

f'Ollld con1rnodjtics ov;,-ing to the ',l'e,_t co:5t. II" h;~d fix0d tho pricL o£ grocnrlE'3 2nd of m f> I brca USO people in Cf' c'tain districts 1.verc prvfitccring, and thG fanners re.'lped the b- n,_fit. Tho gre,lt?r number of :mr n1cr«,

}jyed in tho citv at the IHC"nt but did they go alone" to tho wood

and say, "If you ch"rged 12s. a heforo the price as fixed at 10s., I

a1n p:rcpur0d to giyo ,-ou 12s. now, becnuso I do not br liove in price-fixing"? He was quita satl!?ficd tlwt the farmers \voul.d realise that they ,, ore doing n1uch bettf',r than the;; lwd done hith>rto. He knew a man who had benn a C''l.l"]lenter for years in BriJba.ne, and took Ul1 a dairy farm h•t,vet:-n Southport and TwPed- llf?ads ~n the share r--:rst-2111. The othe:~r day that tnan told hin1 t'hat J1o wn.s doing y :n: 110 was n1aking about £300 for hiJW"clf and £300 for the lar,dlorcl. He" nkcd l1im, "Did you know anything about' dairy­jng " ? A.ncl he replied, " Oh, no, orly what I hav<' picked up from time to time." That ~~:as an in-;tanco of a snccr'3sfnl dairy1nan V'ho Jncl no particular kno~Flcdg0, and yDt overJ argurncnt llif~InbPrs itt c0t.dcl

for political purpo~cs dftmning· in th'~' eves of the world, from tb:_~ othr-i~. I--le con ,,ir1t?red that

industry in Queensland was in anv other ~1a~·t of the

and hn hop -~cl t1{c Co1nn1is-r \''Ot!ld carrv on his rt:ood v1·ork. b0·"'an~~c \Cl~ sati"fl 'cl· that n~lt o~h~ th ., dai:·v

but other produ"ers would ·appreciate it.

PETl1IE (Too;:• /ml): They had heard deal from members on the other sido

profc-;;·.;cd to hayo a greu.t knov.-L~dgc of dairying. Ho confessed that ho had not much knowledg"e of the subject; but the men on the Opposition side were .mostly farmers thl'm,selvcs; the;v had put up .a Ycry good

[Mr. Gilday.

case, and that we.s one reason why he intended to support the amendment. He. 1vas not going to cast any reflection on the Pricn Fixing Con11nissioncr, bc:_eauso he

believed that officer endeavoured !7.30 p.m.] to ~ury ol!t h;~, work-which was

ono of very great difficulty-to the best of his ability, and that he was a just man ,~~ho did th" lwc+ he eoe1ld for everybody

after all, production and r;c('f0 the' things which

He re1118111berr.~d tho tirnc~ fc-;,v Year.) ago llO'il~~,vhcn they

S('C a: cow i-n Brisbrrno, rTho hnd t8 {a 11 back on dripping; and OLt it \\·ould be <ldrnittcd that he '\Yas

sampL of a man >vho had years on bread and dripping. ~nstead of getting co,y's n1ilk,

L~.ll back on f>JZLt's n1ilk. per}wp:::; tbo Corr:1111ss~oner,

nrico of butter, ,n1~r:ht have thn' fnct thnJ. during tho pust

fo\v ... :oar:::; f<!.rnJ:T, h:--d to up "\Yith 1nany dra,.,:ba('k~. and tha.t the .'d co::t of the mat.,~rl~1"1.8 t 1.10v nocdl,J to c::ar:;~ on thoir i~dustr· 7 n,~ iAcd' to incre:- e tho cost of butter . .., In Yi,·w of those ho thou<:·\1~ Hl(~ far;npr-: \Yere consideration_ \Yht:)n he got a r0ply from tho :I\~.inistcr for li._g-rlculture to the qv.eQ.tion of '\vhif'h ll0 1'acl giycn :notice that afternoon, he hoped th"t the Minister would. annc_u':ce thrrt. after f'OD··ultn;ticn "\Ylth th0 Pr 1 <0 F1x1ng Ccrr::mis~ioncr, jt had been ciocidrd to 1:copen tbc CfH0~tion \Yith regard to the pnc~ of Lutt0T, nnr1 thnt the farn1f'l'S \Yould br g1ven th( prif't' tlH'\- for-nflnH 1\-. 274'. l)("r cwt. In " L::ttct· th~ "CouriE>r" of that 1norning from a fanner nr~n1ed G. R._ 9rouch, of Cooroy. thcce appeared the followmg :-

" I notice b:y Mr. Ferry's final report re tho cost of pcoduction of buttDr that he fLxes the cost of production at ls. 7d. per pound. but gives no. ovidrnee t? bear himself out. only the lngh preduobon ~t a certain butter fo.ctorv. Trne, he lB able to find factorin tl~at haYe given <1

birr output but he cannot find dairymen th~t can n.roduce butter for ls. 7d. per pound, unle'"' undeJ' extremely favour­able conditions \Vo ore just coming to the close of ono of the beo.t years on ro~ord, and I would invite Mr~ Ferry, or anv of the Brisbane Housewives' _AssociH.tinn, or eY0n Mr. Th0odore. to corno and soo the thing for themselves, awl I moulcl driv<e th~m around the dis­trit • so that the,~ could p-ain a good idea of the gC'n~ral \Yorking aDd expenses of a dairy.

" I started on ,n1}- prcsr>nt f arn1 on 1st An.rxust. 1919. nnd bought in v Hh 6 per cent. interest to pay on the oopital outlav. 1 mav say that I ha>-e been U!HJ .. hic tn p::P; .. thnt iutc~·C-'~t., nnd am to· da--- h.T fror{l s(juare. 1\Jinc- is not a ~i1~crnlar ~- ~c:o_ ?\h~ no1rrbbn:Jr. '\Yho has Sf'Ycrn1 H1on::1 nds in..., r><.;tcd, loo;;t 1 ClO hrad of cattle dnring 1919, and for the ''hol0 n ,. made £90 out of butter. His i~' not ·~1 < ''C o:n its oy:.:n. I r0nld take --Dn to othPrs around ~,vb.o lost C'QU~t1ly 's 5'c--;·c-r01v. Onn nn-1 .. n '~'ho hrrl t}lirty­fiyo cr)>Ys, lost hvBnty of the Yl rhuir;g 1919. ·1nd hn~ b~f"'D 1nr·l·l]p to ngcun 1'"'"=::, 1 0rk o-;Yin.c:; tn finnnci.;:;.l difficnltv. Trug, son10 go'od chcqUPs arc bc-inrs made nt. nrr"'0nt. hut if you \von1d o<1ly rro t.o the' ra1lwa~~ ~tatioTis anrl find out what

Supply. [9 DECEMBER.] Supply. 617

fodder was bought, and then go and visit the dairymen and find out their lassos, it '>>ould not bo hard to find out where the profit gotP. If anyone in authority would pay a visit and inquire at the local banks ho,·~· 111anv local cl2-irYn1en had .overdrafts, I thini, the cost o( pro­ducbon would e.1sllv bo overcome.

"Tt JS about tim~ that the chcir•·men had a deal .. anrl received a h ,~ing \YG~f'. n1e 05< an"· other \Yorkin;r soct.ion of thP con1n1u.nitv. I n1:vs;lf ha\·o been unable to bu~· ~. 112\Y su{t of

for and V children haxt?

for eat b. C'<lUSC \YC

ful'n1turc.'' Th:1t 1cttr'._' br)l'f'

~~ ;.~~lc·~·l;;rin ;· Hon.•. thu prr cnt achnini2tration.

ont n1n h of \>:hat of t~1c

on side

been bv

of the

rrhc CIIAln:}~~\X: Or{i r! I WO •ld 1l0int out tn the hon. n1cn1ber that ns an old pr:rlivrne>11tari~:1, 1Jo cf!.nnot 1n'ak(· u:1 his spCC'C~1 hv c·xl-rr et:;: ~ hon. m :.m_bcr intc tdcd to a 110\""~.T:::-·')

n1en1L r 1ninntc qu<)' in~

did not quote t.he who1c ~yas ne:'~~ going to quote 111 \Yh1c11 ihcrc• 'vas the

of nature io that a certain C)_LH1 ntity WOl,'~\: is neceSc-iary to produce a crrtain quannt:· of gocd of any kind v\·~-ateYc~:· .r If .:von. '' .2nt. ln1o\vlcdg0 you must toll 'or It; If fond. you mu't toil for it; and if pleasure.· ,:ou mmt toil for it. But mm~ do n<•t" acknowJc.clge th1s la\v; they :-;tJT·N~ to C'Yade lt, hoping to g•·t thrir kno,-;·ledgc :-lnd food and pleasure for nothing; anc1 in this £'ffort the:- either fail of getting them and rPmnin ignorant and mi.-0rable. or thev obtain thcr11 bv making othor nlGH work for their benefit, and then thev are tyl·rmt< and robbers. y,.,, and ·worse than robbers."

Hr should like, also, to quote from a little pan~ ph le-t on pTofitf)ering, ·which h~ 'Would ad\":lSO hor. n1cmbers to procure. Thr argu~ ments in that pa.n1phlct shJwod that there ,,~as ·no nc::cs, ity for the fixation of prices, P ·3 f;Upply nnd dcrnnnd \Y u1d dcci-do the 9ur ti_on of \Vas ng01inst profitcor-lng at u:nv A of rr1nnc-v had b( en spent i11 and tho Con1n1on-we.alth in tr.~."ir:g pro-Atccring, bnt noth~ ing Yf"'rT~ all, hul corno out of it. ~rhe looking at the qn0sti 'Hl point. of Yicvv altogether, that canton~ tion hC' v,'cnld pan1phlct headc·~l "The )J .. which read~-

are prodpr:::·d fo1~ exp:n_'t. \Y ere not for o•;r great expott tracle, tho primor:r industrie, of Auetrolia could not li,-o at dl. The total value

of tho.se products which we send annu· ally to other countries is oyer £70,000,000. Compared with this sum. the amount retained for hon1e consu1nption is negligible in its influence upon prices. The prices of all these products are fixed abroad bv ,,-odd cDuditions. At hon1e, ho·v~;ever,~ there is a considerable nn111bcr of our o~.c:n pooplo ongn.~e-d in ~-upplying us \Yith our share of thoso

con1moditics. If thcso \Yore ag·ain t by the fixtttion of

below nor-mal market Ya1uos, a ,;nunbl:t· of people v )uld be

out that a sin1ilay result unl( . COE- ideration 'vns given

of pl·icos-naincly, hoped tlw tcr-

not to \Yith

}-fr. Ft:rr:v, ,,_~ho ~xi_.hf'd to thing ~~~- the: [,:{ rrnr~r,,;:, ~~·cmld giyo s:Ltisfac-toi".\' an.s\\ ,.· to tho que:ohon of ho had

that dav. Ho ,,-.'1-ntGd to see food as cheaply as pos­

sgn1c tjino theY 1nud con­As w:t.g< ~ ~vent up, so

the '·:J"t of production incn•a·.e; but 1ncrca· '· l prcduct.ion, cmnpstition

'Yonld h:·ing prices dovvn.

ro

:,I!'. 'L/~,:,. TO~~ (1T id JJuy): sh c fanner.

'.:· l-.:o k QC\V

the dt~ir~~i.n. 1-Ic k:--;ew had be , g-oi'''' en chring

he we!, omed pncc­hut h0 rc"'r >ttcd

r hctd bc~n to make

lwrdships he thing for the of butter and

not the price of the pl·odt<c<"r ho. cl to buy in

order to r ;odncc. The CHAIRlVIAK: Order! I 'vould like

to dra1~: the hon. n1en1bcr's attention to S't.andi!l[r Order No. 139, which reads as follGws :-=:.__

" ~lr. Speaker, or, in a Committee of the 'vholc llou;;;e, the Chairn1an, may c-all tho a'.tention of the House or the CCnnrnitt~o, as tho cE~.se may be, to oon­tinuod irrelevance Dr trclious repetition un the part of a tnerr:!.ber.)'

Thirty~~:eyon nlf'mbors ·ha vo .already ,.,poken on thi~ an1(,!ldmrnt, and thJ":" hav-d used, pmcr.ically from tho beginning of tho deba~e, thE- sa.n1c argun1ents oyer and ovor again~ I int0nd to applv Standing Order 139 from now on, e.nd I ~vould call tho hon. (\Ontle· man', attention to it, and hopo ho w1ll not go over argLtments which havo already been used.

~\I1·. C,,_,\--TOI\: :tic ·was inclined to think , ·•ti~"'~1 cf the Pri('" Fixlnn· Corrnnis~ fixing the pric -~ of butter,-~ as going

t•J c 'ttt c EtOl'l' ur~cPploy1nerd:, burau -,o tho r.ot contlt.ue daiTying at the

pnce ~.'vould into Hw citir·s and .'-<'. k -..-!- f-1-nvcrn-:-nent should onconragc n1cn to go on the land and proM

find work for the unem­nn£(-:rtnnat _lv the Govern­

do. . pl'C'cnt. ·'At tho prc:.ent thvv wnr(! in rnidst of ar1 ('Xcellent

Season, a·nd dairymen \VCrG recaiving a fair return for !ho butter producoo, but twolve lnont>s ago da-iryn:cn vvcro not producing at

ilh. Clayton.]

618 S rpply. [ASSE:\IBLY.; s .pply.

all; they \Ye~o .spending c_vcry penny they hac! to koop then· herds aln·e. so that now. when tho .sC'asons good, the'"' c-auld

tho man in city. I-Ie r~cgrettccl , :·er-:· compcllr cj to feed tho people in tn~ CltlCS at fl cDst v•'hich did not pay thG ~a1~'yn1en., If '.Vera con1pclled to sell tL~n· bLtttcJ: at. pl'iCP how >Yore they g01ng to hqu1ctate thG {k,bts incurred in keeping their flocks alive durin')' the tin:10 t.hoy could not produc"? During the last twelYe month~ the dairyman had made a lesser \~'age than was paid in any industry in ~uc~c.:.lS1<lnd,. ::.nd ~c had to work, in son1e 1nstancc,., n1nety hor;r;:.; a \Yeek. Both he and Lis family wero compelled to work seven day,, a \Vcek.

At fifty minutes past 7 o'clock p.m., 1\lr. PoLLOCK relieved the Chainnan in the

chair. Mr. CLAYTON (continuing) : They were

told that they wn J getting a better price ~or butter no\'\- tha.n they ever gnt before ;n Queensland; but they wero not told what rt was costmg· to prGduce that butter. The hon. memlY2r for Herbert had stated that the only voople who wn·o treated properly In Queensland at the present tin1t=- woro the sugar·growcrs. That was a nice statement to con1e frotn a n1mnber sunportino- a Labour Government. • "

Mr. STOP~'ORD : He never said anything of the sort.

Mr. CLA YTO='J : When the hon. member read "Hnnsard " ho would se that the hon. member did say eo. At any rate, the hon. mpmber for Herhcrt had not donied that ho n1ade the stn.ten1.cnt.

l\1r. RYAN: E-~o said that the sugaT-grovrers were r:ot g.~tbng ,,-.,rid's parity.

Mr. CLA YTOK: Ho .%id that thcv were the Oi1l;c· people who were getting "a fair d"'al. Then the hon. member for Rockhamp· ton told them th0 preYious da,· that there were pn?r pt•ople in QucenslandL going with­out foou. Fanr y a supporter of a Labour Goverc.nent ··aylng that there vrerc n1Bn in Queensland -..yho \Yere going 1vithout proper food ! Such a statement wao a severe reflection or~ the Governm~nt that. he sup· parted, and wlllch took credr" for domg more for the man on the land than an:c preYiou; Government had done.

The 'I'EMPORARY CHAIR:\IAI\: Order! The hon. rncn1 b<:~r 111ust speak to the question before the Committee. He must deal with price· fixing.

Mr. CLAYTON: He realised that the fixing of prices by the Commissioner was tho cause of there being so many representa­tives of the Country partv on that side a_nd of thcr~ bt)ing so rnaHy Jes,'< on the othr-r s1de; and, If the fixation of prices continue-d and the man on the land was conmelled to take prices that were fixed withou-t taking the seasons into consideration, not only would there be more members in the Cam\. try party afhr the n•ext election, but that party would be found sitting on the other side. Unquestionably, at the present time. farmers wcr • not allowci to get a fair pnce fol' what they wore produci.1g. Ho (Mr. Clayton) was an emplon'r uf labour in the _dai_rying· inc~u63try, a11d, ~Yh(nevcr he got a rrse 1n the pnce of }J1" n1il\ or bu.ttor. lH• -incrc1scd hi,1 Cinployecs' \rages.

:r\Ir. Bru:~~XAX: \Yhat are ;:~u pa:viug no\v?

lVIr. Ciji YTOl\~: IIo ;;as r .. ying rnorc than he \Yutdd r '.re> to p~1y the hon. nH'Hl·

[Jfr. Cla.yton.

The J.lnc.: to let :; ·_,Ln· IY n go t~) the .

(~Ir. CijP_._ 1. TOX: If his 1n~n \\ cnt to the ..:\rbitl·<-ttion Court, t}Kf Y1'0uld not get 1nore th .. ·1 ho \Y:ls giYing thcrn 110\/,

~I r. BHEKNAX : You talk of then1 t;."" if they >YCl'O sla v·es. You talk of them " my 1.11011." r.fhc,\~ arc \Yorker!3.

~.lr. CLAYTO.:\': I would Le very sorry tD call the hon. gcntlcn1Jll ':n1y man."

Th{c TE:\IPOH.AUY CHAIRYIAN: Order! I hope ho... Il1fn1bt'rs ·will l'Cfrain from interjecting.

:i\lr . .F. A. COOPER: He roso to a point of order. \Y as the hen. n1e1nber for Drayton in order in caliing the hon. member for ToowfY)Jflba "a pup"? (Laughter.)

:\Ir. CLA YTOX: He hoped that the Com­rnlssioner would rcopc~n the question and sec if ho could not gi '/8 the pri~.~-1ary pro· ducer higher prices £or wl-·at he was Produc­ing. That \Votdcl be the IIH3ans of increasing prociu-:1.ion, and increa~ cl production tYould find eL~ployn1ent for the n1un whom the Go·vnnuncnt were rctrPnching at tho present tilllO. i·I · thought th•' majrJl'ity of hon. rn,·:mlx't'3 on th1- o-ther side w ::_·e ln favour of gi vi;.:g th8 1nan on the land a fair deal; but it v·as tlie 8"'-,tre.:.ni:sts on the back bench on the ot ~er side \Y ho were forcing the h·u1c_h of the Govcrnrnent not onlv on the prp·.cnt ocras1on but on every ·occasion. 'J.lhev v·c·re the rPal Govenuncnt of Quoens­land. auJ it would be a happy release for

on the oth2r side when they g·ct of those extren1ists. (Govern~

1uent langhter.) ::'llr. .'\01'1' (Stanlcy): He intended to

f!peak of prie" ~fixing and not of the Prioo Fixin9,' Conunissioner. He was perha11s one of the few on that side who had had occa­sion to interview the Coinlnissioncr, and he admitted that he receiv·ed evory courtesy and cot!'idcralion hom that gentleman. The Premier had been very anxious on several occasiou.s to get an ardn1ission fron1 hon. lll.f-'lUbt'rs ou th€ Opposition side that the price paid to the farmus for butter was a. l't'Col'd for Queensland. He v. as prepared to

admit that the price which the [8 p.m.'j farmers were receiving for but-

ter now was the highest price they had ever got. Somewhere about 1914 the ,,·orkPr~ in the sugar district;; were g-ettinr.; the highest wagt>s paid to any agri· cult- ~tral labourers in .... -lustralia, and probably in en:> of the world. bnt that had not stopped 1:c Tl fron1 asking for and rccciYing high. r ~r11onnts since that ti1ne. Conse­quentlv. although i'ho farru,er~ n1ight bo

a hi3her price now for butter than they \~'el~e quite justified as

at that were m hic:her 2till.

The You

as r 1~1.: h

IVlr. ::Ylost of the state1ncnts in to lossc._; on butter n1a.nufacture

r:.ot been e"'\:aggrratcd in any \Yay. In connection with or:c dairy the sup~ pliers lost oYPr 1,100 cUttJe s than :J

week, and in the vi-.,init.\v of factnn~ they lm't ~on1c~_hing like 1,300 cnt+?_e. I-I';; kn.§HY of a farn1 at tb,., present tin1e v.;hcrc the ch~?!1U·-~ for this n1onth \\·ou1d an1on:1t" to OYf'r £160 for buttc1·, and it. had nYl.,rnged £or so~ne two Ol' three n1onths oYer £130 a. month

2\!lr. Brm:-.;x.\X having repe:1tedlT~ inter­jected.

The TE'IfPORARY CHAIRYIAN: Order t

I must ask the hon. member for Toowoomba to refrain from interjections.

Mr. I\OT'r: On that particular farm, with the same number of cattle during the drought they \VGL'O -down e.~· low as £23 a month, and it was costing from :85 to £7 a day for feed. At the present time thov were experiencing the best season they ha~l ev~r had .in Q~cenoland from a dairying pomt of view. lt had been stat,ed that the Price Fixing Comrnissioner had saved a great deal of expense to farmers in regard to manures and arsenic, and he might have reduced the price to some extent.

The TREASURER: You admit that we did.

1\fr. ::'\OTT: If they did. perhaps t!ie 'freasurer would also admit that they reduced tho price of butter and saved the consumer about £91,000 during that time • If they had allowed the fm·iner to take 274s. a cwt. for butter, instead of forcing him to take 238s. a cwt., he would h:·ve been \Yell able to pa'' for thnt arsenic not at a reduced price, 'but ut the full price. The hon. member for Oxlev had made a calculation-and he thou!!ht {t was correct­showing that the Price Fixing Commissioner had e·wed each consumer in Queensland 4d. a we.ek. By preventing thG price of butter gomg to 274s., and forcn g the farmer to take 238s. a cwt., the Commissioner had mulcted the dairy farmer of 4d. a pound for butter. Thov had heard a good deal about the Price Fixing Commissioner haviniT savc;d the consumers so.mething over £300,000 durmg the past year. At the present time the amount for which butter was ooing obtained from the farmer less than hP should get was about £8,000 a week. If 274s. instead of 238s. a cwt. wae received bv the dairy farmer for twelve months. it would mean that they would receive about £500 000 more than they were receiving now. S~me Government members had claimed that the Arbitration Court and price-fixing covered a good deal of the same work. It see,med to him that the Government in using the Arbitration Court and price-fixing were liko men ;olaving with a double-headed pennv. The Arbitration C'ourt was 0ontinuallv rais­ing- the rrrtes of wav-es to the industrialist and city worker. whereas the Price Fixjng Commissioner had prevented the pr!ce of buttm· from going up to 274s. a cwt .. therebv insuring that the consumer r;ot cheaper food. The court was raising his -...vages on tho one hand, and the prico of butter was ooing reduc"<l on thA other hand. \Yhich was not D foir rlr~l. Wbv did nor the Price Fixing Commiesimwr. like tlw Arbitration Courf. fix the minimum in.,tead of the maximum price? H,, notio0el by the papers that ~n mcrease had lw"n l!l'.flnled in connection -~.,·ith pEtrol and kerosenp.--

619

'l'K:\lPORL\RY CHAIR::VIAX Order! ,rbcr 1.~1·: c--h2.t!'·t0d tin1e

thL Standing Orders. (I ZJSlcich) : H c \Ym!ld like

Y'.'agcs ·which tho industrial S'"ato had h ~t. In clain1s

b0en before the court in connec· tion "'lth n1ini1P'. a~Ticultural, p<-vJorul, and other work they hud lost £25,000 a <Veek bee mso of the ilxation of the price of their wages. Y t)t, they hr 1rd nothir;g frorn tho other side in conucctlon vvith thoso ,matters. They had boon told that the Commissi 'Jllcr had prevented the dairy farmers of Quecns­la.nd from gL:tting 2i4s. pPr cYvt. for their butter. The Commissioner h.fld done nothing of the sort. He decided that unless it co11ld he shown to him that there was any necessity for increasing the price of butter he >ms not going to allow it to be increased -as he had done in regard to every other article. If butter went up very much higher the majority of the workers of Queensland would not be able to get any to vse on their bread. At the present time they were paving 2s. 6rl. per lb. for it. Looking at the Agricultur.fl) Department's report for last year they found that the production of butter in 1915 was 25.000.000 lh. Last year, in a time of drought, it increased to 26,000.000 lb. The production of cheese also increased from 1914 to last vear from 4,000,000 to 8.000,000 lb. They heard the hen. me,mber for '\Vide Bay saying he paid his men wag<'s according to the increase in the price of butter. ~According to the Agri­cultural Report, in 1914-1915 the price of butter ',\ ac, 1s. per lb. During the time the Labour Gov0rnment had been in power it hac\ advan~od until it was now 2s. 6d. per lb. retail. and 2s. 1~d. per lb. whole· sde to the factories. Had the hen. mem· ber for Wide Dav increased the wages of his employees to that extent?

l}Ir. Cu~YTON : Ye.'. Mr. GLEDSON: If he had, he was g1vmg

a very low wage in 1914. There was nothing now in connection with fixation of prices. In llogers' " Six Centuries of \Vork and \V ages" he wont back to the thirteenth century in connection with the fixation of prices at Oxford market. He said-

" The control of the market was under­taken for a treble purposes-to prevent frauds, to regulate the cost of manufac­tueing products, and to insure what was believed to be a natural price."

He went on to say-" \V e leave manufacturers to charga

what they please for the process of tranl!'­forming raw material into consumable articlee, with the conviction that com­petition will be a greater check to exce3-sive rates than ,market regulations could bo."

That wae the argument of the Opposition. to-day. He proceeded-

" But. in the middle ag-os such a notion would haYo been repudiated and justly so. Even now it is doubtful whether competition is of universal efficaey, and whether it is not more correct to my that where combination is possible, competition is inoperutiYe. Henco "~e subject some callings to regulated prices, and it may be rloubted ';\'bother the progress of opinion will not hereafter enlarge the aref1 of regulated prices. Still the incli­nation of people is as yet to let prices find their !owl by competition i" every

J1r. Gltdson.]

620 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

case whore distinct proof is not given that such a concession would be unsafe or unfair. In the middle ages, to regulate prices was thou9·ht to be the only safe cour .:;e ·v hm1CYOr ·what w-as sold -,vas a noC0'3Sa.ry of life, or n necessary ag-ent rin indu:,tr~,~. Hence onr fore£a/chers fixed the p1·iccS of proyi~ion~J and tried to fix the price of labour and money."

ba.ck in lh8 thjri:eenf.1

\\'as

~e gcmt] Pl11Gn (.1':0 bcfr l':

had nttc.n11Jtcd to on tbe Ho;J 0 thA:· might hoxo been ,hlC'

;f) dw C ,LJu:i·, io11er th<Jt there \Y?t-<:; :-:.on1ri-hing ·in tbelr P .. l'.C'llnlcnt. One or t.""~YO rn_0'::l1 b0rs h~1d t.roated the n1att.cr fairlY. Tho dPpuly of Oppo ;tion lwd treatPd tlw m:1Uer a W:LV. He admitted that a fair pric ·p,id for the pre•.mt production. but was nece~: E!.rv O\Ying to the gro'lt Joesos of the dairv ·formers during th{~ last two or thn~c years, 'thnt sonic­thing- should be dono for them. If that had been put in f'! .. fair and souaro v--av before tho Commissioner be "~ou1d have 'taken it in~o consid ration. But th(:;:;T went aJong and trH:_'d to point out to tbo Co.n1mis~ionor that it was co~ting 6.,. 9d. to produc~ a Dound of buttc1· at the present ti:nte, \Yhen C,·oryono kn<:vr . it ~,\·as i•Jt·hi g of th0 'sort. Th1s House was the place to fix the price . of huttcr, and it was not the place to bring forward those argu1ncnts.

_Mr. T. R. ROBERTS (lo'ast Toou·oomba): Fle r.ssumcd that th0 debate was occa .ioned by the fact that the Ce.mmissioncr had not s~en flt, upon 1: :consideration, to give satisfac­twn to the chury farmers. The Premier had ~Said bP hnd rrn open mi1~d and tho Goyern­nH;nt wuu!d br> prcnar('\cl to giYo consideration i"o the 1TIDt'-,:r. TlH"\ l-lDn. the ~1inlstcr for AgrictdtT::·c ·-aid ho did not believe entirc]v in pricP-fixing: thC>Y had ,h cl Yf~rv ·;rnnort::n1t f3fJ0( ··hrs the bOn. n1omber foi· :\foi·n1anbv and the- nH~mbc r for Rosf~-,,-ood, to th'O

c.nc1 he took it tho~o men

[1;fr. Gledson.

p:ff('ct on Uo'-·crn-f'vid(•nt tlwt if

With th0i1• S]JCI

r•nnsider the

the land should be preparod to give the producers tlto hightcst price they could <ret nn.vwhoro, ju0t as the0 desirerl to get the full result of their labour by industry. l-Ie 'tuod for also in 1918 and he stood

it, Tho l'~at~ona.1ist party \Vore up ; gain:,t price-fixing.

Mr. BREN::\'AN interjecte-d.

l\'lr. T. R. EOBERTS: If there 'ms anything 11' in tho dcbat0 it ·v·.~as the utterances uf for who

s. a r·:~ Con11\anv.

<- 1 Hl th ~ T:-:x::as Oil Co~JJ:>any. The oil i~ in1~1crL:d by the comp·tnies n1entioned and sold ln Australia <-tt th0 v;orld's p •ritv. Jf th. prices askc cl for by the

not granted, it is possible not bo supplied."

That. '"''" tlwir cor:tcntion right through­that thr> lw,'1 no COlltrol over tht:_-ie con1Inodi­ti. \Yhat did tho Comrr. i>sioncr cr<:o about groc::ri.::: 1

"l}nfortunatcl:.~, Qucen6land is largely >::.~cr--.nd{•nt upon i1nportatiunq, and rnany line. arC' being incroaf'od continually by ~~ontlH~rn 1nanufacturcrs with or \Yithout the r<;nsc!tt of L.ho CmnmiL-:.,ioners in the States c·•mcorncd. U nlese Owre is a surplm of the commodity, (]uccnslanders

to the price asked or do l!:ocd::<. The Queensland gene1·a1ly are not so firmly

as t1;o."~·, sav, in Victo:-·ia, and !lOt b· nefitcd to any great extent

incrc.-:038 in prices." Thc·n he fonn~....l that there lwd 1

J('t'l1

conf(•rl_nee on these quc:stion·-Sc-·th :tnd rqJOrtcd on as

1Jo\YS :---

Th01'C' WCl'0 strtferncnt~ in that report \vhich sho\vcd that pricc-£xing w,H not in tho

Supply. fll DEcE;viBER.] Supply. 621

interest of the general body of Quecnslanders. Why shouJ.d any Queonslandcr who produced butter not be able to c;c:t for that butter the sarn0 pr.ico as v·p obtained by rnen in tlw

Southern States? He noticed [8.30 p.m.J that, in a cnse \Yhich was before

the A1bitration Court in which t}.,i-~ \i:;t uskcd for r0ducr cl hours. thov that the cJin1atic conditions of ·Qnccns!ancl were sucl1 Umt thoy should 11ct be rxp::ctL'd to work th0 sarne numb~_ r of boLF:-1 as nH~n en1ploycd in tho snme call­.ir:;e:- i11 ~'Tcv. South \Yale.s and Victorja. If that orgurnf'nt applied_ to industriali.sts, it applied \Yith equal force to the rnen who produ: eel butter. He dc"ircd to get into {' 1-Ial~sarcl " flgur\'S \Yhich \vould be

coniL~ctcd ·with the butter evidently ongng,~d

outside t h~~ tr get these

n:_·d '' iH order w1uld b" abl2 to

as figures wonld bear the hg2.tion. If the Prcmie-· was

not. Dl'Cpn.rr:d to 1.oive a!l ' he' would

tho price; -------"--~

3 ;\',37-HHa

335,%-L lDlCi

70:0.;3,Gi4 :!00 u~~·.to

34'l,:lll 80. Q 3f~,3 80 :!:);) l'L'4;l 1917

30q,50rl 105,:lF±,D '() :26-i lH ~0 1913,

381 505 87,080,()\:8 :..:...!~) ! ) 05 UJlD

373,146 1 2

The mln engaged in tl:e butter industry asked the Price Commissionec to give them the eamo price for their butter as" could be obtained by dairymen in tho Southern States, HE> understood that, as far as tho Imperial GoveJ nrncnt \YOre concerned, they 1-vero pre­pared to pay an additional price for butL1· in order to encourage the industry in ALls­tralia. Thuy wero prepared to pay a. certain sHnl oYer .ancl above tho prico agree,d upon by the two men ;ent by tho Commonwealth Go-..crnn1cnt to arrange vvith t:1e Briti'lh

as to the prico to be paid for f!'om .Au£-tralia. If the 1nen

were prcpa.red to pay b0Ine­

in order tr~ oncourago the in Australia, was it up to the

}J.u .. ~)tralifl. to do for the cro trying to produce If thG

had rrrantt_ J the additional f)uccrlSland dairymen on the i i1 rcg,n.rd tu t'he Prief! of

h·Jttcr ns PH.:> dairv111en in the Soutl!ern \\"hat 'Nnuld 'ha vo boon the position

tho Qucomland drcirvmen woro nnnn,nYJWn ? On tho figure,; he 'had gi ,"en, at 2"'" 3d. nor lb. thov would havco rec0ivecl £192 l4e. 3d. from fift;,on cows. After ailow­i.ng for cost of p1ant and allowing for intorc~t. thf're would havG boen left to the man who was raising the butt<er-that was, for \YOrl6ng aeven days a \Vock, anrl on -an average ten hour~ a. day, and members oppo­site had told them that the women and chil·dren wew working in slavery-if 2s 3d" per lb. had been granted, they would only have got the magnificent sum of £165.

the Price Fixing Con1missioner, then he would suggest that the Committee should refuse to voto the sum of £5,000 to be appropriated to that department. He was aJJticipding that at some stage before the debate closed an opportunity would be giYon to tlw ~.Iinictcr for Agriculture to show the eincerity of his sympathy "ith the man on the. land, and an opportunity to tho hon.

for Norn<anby to show that he was .rtch-cr; ting the ( ~use of Infm ·who

the land day and night, to the hon. mcmbm· for

'' >o claimed that he rcprr'·ented ir --:Iu~try, to shov. th0t be was

dc·'·iJ.'e to nrorno:c t-:1e interP t::; trY. If the hon. n1embc:r for

dicl net prove his incerit.y in that 1n:1tt r. he Y~'llhli' cl to ~.'ly that if they got a L> i r tho next election the hon.

16 3

3 !l

7 r,

17 G

7\l 9

would lose his seat; his sr :.t if he d1d

sup-wont back his

in that c:um he n~prcscntu.tive of which h0 wichcd

follo\·.s :-

VRlne S1drn 1 ~ gal

---~--·---

£ s. d. £ 8, d. lll 17 G s.t 15 u

17 u 6 ~1 B 0

2.1 lll 11 3

22 0 3 1?1 13 (l

lJ 6 3 [()g ·> 0

16 5 0 05 8 9

=dr. BRr:~xAN : hypocrite.

You aro a damned

Tho TE11!>0RARY CHAIRMAN: I ask thG hon. rn2rnber for 'foo1voomba to withdraw th"'t statement.

1\lr. BREX:::-..\.:\1": I withdravv it.

7\Tr. T. H. ROLriiTS: He had not Ji'Tccl in TclO\-Yoomba UD\\·nrd~ of thirty y;:, rs ''r~thout kn-owing the condition:1 under \Yhich the men on the land we:·o working, and he knew \Vll.1t ho was talking about. If rn2rnhc-rs

111D[lllt y;lJat. thcv said 1'1-'t night, nl1L- t yote 1vith the Orposit:on on

arnendment.

~\TPOR~\RY c:H ... t; ... IR.::VL\:::"J 1na1-th 1·inw allov.'cd by the Sta.nding CXllir_d.

snfFielcnb evid0n-c~~ to sho1Y tho.t tlw produr~;-n~,

year out, rha-d been <1 great sufferer, it had been shown " fixr-d bv tho Comn1is:;;ion0r was n0t compell'sate the d~iryn1en for their lassos. !-Ie was not out. to 1nake any remarks against tho Price Fixing Commi.ssioi.1Pr, b~cause that gentleman had no opportunjty of defending himself. It was their duty to attack the principle of price-fixing rather

Hon. W. H. Barnes.]

[AS SE:~ IBI~ Y.J

c: th ·'L-Hll~

tate Stntcs were

a. JargtT amount Queensland Y\.8" one thing 1norc another that

t~1eyt 'v?ntetl, it was to get, as possible, tne Jnllc•st "':a!ue for their A-ccord-ing to the nrrpcrs. t-o-{L:.\ ono the things ~hst Australj l, \vas U'J again··t, ,yas rr·tluccd 1Yicom0 _frOJn hcr pro<.1uct .. That n1cant thnt Australla end Quc('m]rrnd must , antinue t.o ftnd t.hat dE' f-inancial difficulty -would bceon1e more aro_d ::w:-c ucnt0. hecansc if price-fixinr:· product ..:l in any ,,·ay a lcBs "UDl for tht-'l'r products th"n could b0 obhincd after mak­ing the ncccs.<lry provjsjon for- Jocal needs, ~hc·y were domg something ,-,hich ":lS stri.k­ntg at the cor~nnunity g:cnen' 11y. At the con1-n1encen1cnt 01 the se "s:on the Premier droy;· attention to one vital thinrt in connec:tion with their .needs, and he (2\Ir. Barnes) held thnt. prlce-fixn1g "'ras ono of those factoTG 1,.,-hjch \'\",_,,. going to irT~i·aic 'l.nd anTiov n1en 1vbo 1nd }.o, d·J 1vith prin'l0ry- productS. l-Ie ha-0 nn ::u-.·1 ~r-tP fron1 on(~ of the Sydney pape~rs v.-Tn.tcn tlns v;cek vdurh FhO"'.YGd vc::.·v {'011-(

1USiY l~, that price-fixi~';'; had not .. ~·or ked

0Ut a~ a .. t1ripat.PC1. \J1cl nnb,yjilJstcl..n(lir.rr t.hnt ::-\'o1-o;; Sn,i.h Y\'nlc-; d·ir~rncn ,-, geL'"inq- 36- a c1.t. for t.hoir 'rnore the• Q'-lC<'nsknd zhirym('!L fonnd in l'~r:'Y Snn~~l \Yalc-s that the ·p1·ln1"1' jJr(xln~~r ·--~·--) gctt.lng a ~:l.Y frorn tL· land. No one for p. 1 .or:nent. ~.-.-:onld argnc that thnt f'nuld po&srbl)· be for arP countrv. _!:'! o tocJ;;: it that. Pnce startCd to interfere with !-hC' or-~lina' y aYeTIUPS in tb(tt reg .. ...1·r"l. t}y•y nnmedtatcly cut cfr' f30rnething e]se.

[9 p.m.]

~-Ic di~ not beli(~vc in price-fixing, bnt. if pnce-fixmg was to continue it must be of such a ngture that it would offer some encouragen1ent to p·oople who were not abl::l: to go to picture shovvs, and ·who ,vero obliged to work very much longer hours than orcli­nary indiYiduals. Unless that were done, they mrght e_xpe~t such peopl.e to drift away from the callmg m _winch they were engaged. It was heartbreakmg for the man on the land, after his herds had bc·en reduced bv drough~, to ~-p~]ise that, when a year came round m winch there was a chance for him to make good, the priec-fixcr-and avain h<> desir-'d to emphasise the fact that 'iw v '"s dealing with the principle and llo' with thn indiYidual-fixed a price that >Yould not give that 1nan :1n adequatp rcv(ard for fhe labour of pas+- yearp~ ber-au~e it ""~as not p·o· ~iblc; to doal 1..vith tht: matter fairlv on t~c busi:;; of one ye'lr. II{-· belieYed 1{ ·would be jn the int·~rcs1~ l of the corn m unity h'.:ncral1y if th~. Yot~ \'L:rp \Vip~cd out ~on1pltotely. Appar­m1tly, tho n1ethons that h:nl lwcu adontod in connPction Y'.~ith pricC'-fixin;:;. not onlY in Queenelanc!,, but throughout Austraiia, had not worked out as they w 2re expected to ·work out. During the discussion, reference had been made to potatoes and fruit. Onlv that dav ht:. had noticed-and no man could notice it without regret-that some cherries fr?m the Yery important fruit-growing dis­tnct of Stanthorpe were simplv alive with the fruit-fly, whilst some peacl1os from the

[Hon. W. H. Bames.

to pr1f·e-lixing.

_There \rere just hvo or thrc~t n1attcrs to """~li ·1-1 he \ronld 110w r_ l·f:r incidentallv.

· \'.T -n the hon. xnernlJeJ· ; er Cooroora \Yits the Secretary for Agriculture said, pby in " J--L; would not

tl1at.

Tho SEC'H;_TAUl FOR /~GRICULTLHL: =-\iot at all.

fio;..;. Y\r. Jl. BAR~\'ES: That 1,.yas \vhat &0YOra1 hon. Hlen1bers bad jnferrcd frmn the rc-rnark, and ho \Vas YC::y glad to kncnv th:::.t it '' ,,s Hot , o, and that the hon. gentleman would open th~:.' shovY.

Tho SECRETARY FOR ..:\.GRIC"GL::'UEE: I will o~w11 <1~ 1n.a:ny .as you like.

Ho;.;. \',-. H. BARJ\'ES: The hem. member as ~va..; rdways the CdS", \\"as

anc1 dcfiuito regard­of pr}ce-ftxiug. The hon. ~\YDcHl a r·egu1ar

" First of ~-·as l..Yrong and to get tlw full

0~1 tl1o othPr \Yer~ particu­

;_;iyz•n hin1 th~ -;er­or .-,oTneth-ing of that nbcr '£or 1'-..o .t, 1'oo­

whcn he Paid that, if i:h< ~0 tv,"O hon. D1C' nbers belieY:::d IYh~,t they had a:id, th:-lr duty \Yas to 'Tote with tho Opl 10sitioa \Yhen the question \\'as put. Ccrt.uin!,v. that \Yas thr~ '''ay in which e-, cry hon. mer:1ber 1.vho rcpr:: '3Pntr:d a farn1ing con­stituenc-y 'hould vote. The Opposition had no apolog~T to off~-r in connection with the Yotes they were going· to give. They believed that .all cla"es in the communitv would be on a hotter footing if free and open trading- were permitted in connection with tho products of the countrv instead of tying them up artificially. thereby creating­no end of trouble. Tho vote should b8 wiped out absolutely, not because of any objection to the gentleman associated with rh<' work of price-fixing-, but on the general principk• that that particular phase of dcpartnv:>ntnl llL; was not beneficial to the cornwunity.

Mr. 1\L\X\VELL (Toownnu) : In the light of a nnmnl1Ict that h0 held in his hand, which- hrrd been issued by the Government dnr:in~ tbe -election cn1.~.1paign, it was ;:.oln<-',·h~t a su;:pri·~~ to hin1 to hear hon. members of the Co';~rnment and their sup­por1t'1'3 >'lW:>king as thcv h ·d done. In tlio p:1nphlrt r·>?fcrred to. in ndY::uwing n~asons \vhy tho farn1('1'8 shoulll support the Govern­InPnt. they said-

" The C'Olltrol of butter b"ing now jn the hands of the 'Nationalist' Federal Par1ia.1nent. tho prire of crean1 <'ar1y in :.VIa:· la·,t (despite the fact that the Lon­don market still maintained its hil!h !cwl) was reduced, thus permitting the middleman again to come in for a rich han-;:;st at the expense of the farmer."

Suppiy.

[9 p.n1.] i11g amongst

'Yerc V( ry pn.inful. the livC's of the dairyn1cn WOl'e son1ethn1g likn the liYE's of the pollcenH'n Ill the "Pirates of Pcn_zanC'e "-thE.'Y -~.-_ c1·e Lot Yery ha pp~-~. In~tancc s had been brought unJor his ob'3crvation, in 0110 of ~~';·hid1 a nl,lll and his wife and ,fan1ily \V-ent out tv rnake a Jiying for then1sclvc"~ on the land, and the result r Ml been absolutely disastrous. After putting in the best part of their lives they were quite prepe.red to le:tve with practically nothing at all.

The TEJ\1PORARY CHAIR~.IAN : I ask the hon. member to connect his remarks with the vole·

Mr. I\IAXWELL: He wanted to clrar a\;'ay \vh:Jt YNl, evidently a \vrong irnpression. Tho cit:. did not sbnd to sacrifi, · the primary producer fot' the sake of giving the cit:;,r people cheap ccnunoditics. ETo \Yallt( d to refer to an episod(~ v; hich took plnc•: ;onw time ~.go at a. place caHcl D<;lylyn·o, and tu quotL' from th~ ';Brisbane Courie:r '' of 27th Sr:pt:~11brr h.st. IIc did not '.Yish bring in all",- indi\-idual in cnnncctir'n this it the principie nf fixntio~1 \Vas speaking ag.1inst. 'The H"(HJ:i.'t

'' Proposing the; tnast of the' di21trict at tho offi .ial op<:tn]ng of the rJihYay rxtcn­s1on to Dayboro on Saturda:v~, :=vh·. E. Rudd, a farn1cr in D<v:l1oro di trict, sn,id he y, ould like to sa3: BOHlcthin.~ about dnirying, which 11 as their rnain local in­du.otry. He thought at such a gathering· he would be jnstified in touching on that and alw on price-fixing. They had just heard Mr. Bertram and other;; say that the d:::;trict 1nust no\v prospPr and go ahc'ld. ' I say there is one man who can stop the place progressing,' said Mr. Rudd.

"A voice: Name hitn. "Mr. Rudd: I say he is stopping the

primary producers from prosperiw:. He is stopping us from getting our j nst re­turns-that is the dictator, the Price },ixing Commissioner. I have no hesitaR tion in naming him. As you all know, there is onl} ono thing- that gives us national prosperity, and that is through primary production. Arc :."ou going to curtail pri1nary production-: I ;::a:--' you rrre doing so to-day. The price for bntt0r in the \Vorld's market is 274s. per cwt., and after 1naking rPpcatcd application~ \YO are not allowed that pl'icc for the amount of dairy produc;o wo soli Ioc>tlly. I say it is unjust, un-British, and unfair that Oll<l man should be allowed to do that. (Appla.usc.) In y>rimary produc­tion, I challenge any rnan to say there is any profitoering, or n1onopoly. or com­bine. or excess profits. YvThy c.houlU \Ye bo deprived of our just returns? The Com­missioner refuses to givo us the l~d. per lb. that would bring us into line with the world's parity. He claims, through the Press,. that he has saved the consumer

023

pr_>r 1uonth. has taken LHillC'\' L·oru the prodncer.

rr~_tr· L0 1 Hlur~t' ~,_ ,, +-J a paLasite cu hi~; fPl]CJ',,·-;!iCI.:, nllcl I clrrin1 \Ye are

i11 tl1 t Sd1S·~. (Applause.) t· ""h'G a clay, and I an1

to c~,, it. (Appiausc.) The his Jiyc!-i.lwod by v·ork­

ttood luck to hirn. Our ou our 1\0rkirg for the

stated, and -..~ 0 do not get for our 1:· bour enm then.

1 .~it\ it is a national caliunity that the farn~crs' son-; of this district u aro going tOI\'lliYards, but ;vc hnve 110 argun1ent to ret 1in thoru here. T,hcy cannot earn the :•tandard rate of WR11,"0s no1.v, \vhen the Price Fixing Comn1issioncr \vill not allo\v uJ to have the world's market.' JYlr. Hncid conclndod a vigorous address by reminding his audience that the Labour Convention in Perth reqursted the Fede~ 'a! Government not to permit the export <'' butter until Ioc: I needs were supplied nt a ' rl·asonable figure.' These people, ho said, wanted to bring· down the f ann'_rs' prime butter to the price of ta llO\>' and to hv the St. te butchers' 'hops in butter ·fat. (Laughter and ,;,pplau~c.)''

Th:1.t a spe0eh n1a.cle a farn1er. There -...n'ru rnernbcrs on Upnosltion :::ide 1\'ho ~pent a li{l ti-me i:n the da1rying industry, and fully understood 1vhat they Yrerc tr.lking about. lie emphasised the ~a et tl:at tlw (it v did not \Yant to sacrifice ;~:1: incln~try at ·tho expense of the prirnary 1n·oducf'r.

Qm ·tiou~··That £4.184 only be grantccd for C·mw;i 'icncr ot Pricr<s (Jir. Jiorgan's ·men I 'nl)-put; and the Committee

diYi·cfr-..d :~

llrr .. \ppcl Barnr>~:. G. P. Barncs, 'V. H. f3chhiPgton

, Brand , Cattermull

Clayion Corsc>r

" Costello Deacon

, Eclwards , Elphinstone

Fletchcr

AYES, 32. J.\.ir. KC'rr

King· , Log-an

::U:tcgr('gor ~laxwell l\f oore

,. 3forgn.n Nott Petrie Roherts, .T. H. C. Hobcrts, 'f. H, Sizc'r

,. Rwayne Tavlor w:i:u,.,r \Varren

!' Fry Green .Tones

Tellers: Mr. Kerr and Mr. Petrie.

:Mr. Tiarbcr , Rertram

Brennan Rulcock Collins

, C·JllTO"j'

XoEs, 37.

., CoopPr, F. A. ,, {\ 0per, \V.

)Jr. Huxham Kirwan T~and Lnrc:ombe :.1 cCorma.ck 1\Jnllan Pavne Pr. ~Lse Fetcrson Hion1an n-,"ftn ~ITiith Htopford Theodore -.;y·C'ir

Co·.ne Dllsh Dunstan Fr-rricks Fihcllv

,, Foll'y" Forrle

, Gilday Gillies Gledson

, Hartley Tellers:

Re'.oh-ed in

., \\' e!lington \.Vil.-.rJn

., \Yjnstrmley

Mr. Forde and Mr. Weir.

the negative. Origiual question put.

il!r. il!axwell.]

624 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

Ho:-~. W. H. BAR:'-JES: He simply wanted to state ag·ain that he believed it was in the interest of the community generally that this ·dcparttncnt should be done a wrty ·with oaltogcthcr, and he should therefore call for .a diYi~,iDll.

Mr. COHSER: Cmmtry memberB bcliev•o.d thev could haY{~ a ~ "lCt !sful handling o! tlw.ir dairy products by prise, unJ. there ~hould he no "\Yhero there -..-r ~ts p:;·in-:nr.Y pt·o::_l:.:tccr. on tint accouni.

Quc,tion~That £4.185 be granted for Co!t1-

nlissiDlFr of Prlce>J-rJut; and tho Co1nrnitte03 diYided :--

Ur. Barlwr Bcrtram

F. A. ,, Cooper, \\ .

Coyne lh::h JJ:utstan ~'crricks

, Fibclly Foley Fm·cle

, GlHay Gillies Gled:-on

, HartJ"'}'

AY:Z~·, 3i. -·lr. Ituxham

J\i_nn:tn LnDd J.ar~.. JJD.h:' }! cCo:·m~u ~\: JiulL H

., J::.,yr:_n

Peaw 11 riPl ·n:;

Tiionlan H·

The( lon1 \Ycir \\~rllinr!lon

"\Yilson" , "\Yinsto.nky

Tellers: :J.lr. Kirwan n.nd :}Ir. P('ase.

Mr. Appel Barnes, G. r. IhtnlCJ.!, "\Y. H.

,, Bebbington Brand Oat1ermull OlnYtou CorScr Costello Dea"o:u Edwards

, :Elphinstone Flctcl1er Green ,Tones Kerr

::\'oEs, 31. ~Jr. Kinr;

:uioore

". II. 0. Hobert1:1, n' H. Sizcr

n ~'\Yaynp Tavlor Walker Warren

Tellers: ],fr. Elphinstone and Mr. T. H. ltoberts.

HesolYcd in the affirmatiYe.

I:\TELLIGEXCE AND TO'CRIST BUREAU.

The PRE~liER mo,·ed that £2.950 be granted for "Iutclligenco and Tourist Bureau." There 1vcre ycrv sl1g,ht changes, brought about by the claesil1cation and .couo in('rcases under tho head of contingenClcs .

. H. Bl1HNES: The Yote for "Con­la:.t :v('ar we s £500, and this

£700. I-Io \Yould like to know than £500 was spent last year,

Premier thought £700 would be sufficient this vear. He dlso \Yould like to know how the· money was epcnt. He \\ould .also like to know whether t•here. was anv truth in tho statements that during tllo influenza cpicl0n1ic so1:no n1cn of the wor:A description received pa~scs Sydne;.7 to \Vallangarra :Jnd Brisbane, pl'f?­

su'"'ably from the bureau in Sydney, and that some of them who had become fairh­notorions in the city 6tated that it was very much easier to got concessions of that kind to Queensland than anywhere else. For a oonsi~lerable time the Sydney office did not

lhon. W. H. Barnes.

scf~r:.1 to bo vBry attractive or up to date, and h0 would like to ascertain if it \Yore now run in such a. wav as to reflect credit on Qt1ecnsland. <1nd i{ the Premier regarded it n,.;, C'siS-•~:nti:J.l.

Tho PRE},J1BR: The a1nount expended 'he ,}u .~-cl of contingencies last year

it ,,,·as thought that £700 would Tho principal 0XlJ:?ndi­

with the rent of the statjoll('l',Y, telephone, a· ''Ji'1tanco, and tr::tvel­

s,·dn•:::v ofiicu .d_id a of gnod, ~and ~it wa'-1 a good an et 'TCnt in the Southern

t:J ontnt1ons \vcro rnade in l\IelbournP, but it

as aot. nrn'JC) 'J to do th:-tt The Syc!noy ~rt1cJ.8 \Yas ·well v;ort.h up.

_:'d'PEL (illbu·t): The o;,ly h find ' ith tho Sydney branch

} nsufficicnt rc1nunr'ra tion paid If the Pr"'rnier was prepared

in vicv,T tho co·t of liYing r~2,...0 ;yn,; a livj11g wage, ·he regretted

conld not a,~rce 1vitl-l hin1. Tho director ;vas an r xcellcnt civil servant, a "civil"

i~1 sc!1so of th3 ''Tord, and any-~';1' Y:J: nn10 of work he did £ltH1

y,-ay }JC dc:Yot· rl hi:msc1f to it and all as u dc}i:1g for Quc0nsbnd, n:ust rcaliso it was an in1port:tnt branch of the u.

Th PRE~IIEn : Ho is getting tho salary rtovidcc.l under tho classification.

APPEL: \Ya,. ,he receiving ? Practically the lowest

one could get a Sn:lall flat vicinitY of thn offico

so1nctbiug lj1~·c £3 ;:_~. a v;cek, unf1)rtnnato 1nan "\Vas able to

family he could not under-

Question pllt and passed.

.}I C':'LT:::',r, BRISBAXE.

Th PREMIER moved that £3,275 be .!:!ranted fm· "Museun1, Brisbane.'' fie tboug·ht the vote did not require any connnent.

~lr. TA YLOli.. : In ~upporting the vote, thcTc \va.s not n1uch to be said, except

rf'[trct 1noucy "'.Tas 1:.0 scarce could not be dcvot.cd to the

thoug·ht they all looked upon rdncation:1.l institution, and

in the front rank of scientific It T',8s g:·atifying to

had been able to

n1u.~cun: \vas CGLmtry

t·o congratu­stai! on the n1anagc­It 1vas plc .. t~ing to

tho co,clition of dm·in" the ftve

h,;d been in a certain

Ul110Ullt of t1iCnC'.~,T to th(~ 1llU~~"U111. but he­thou~ht thev should strikC' ont

[9.30 n.1n.l in O~e or 'two new dire::tions. · · The HL!mber of people who Yisited

the n1useum was not sufficient considering the population of the State. He . thought they shouid have all sorts of exh1b1hons m the museum eycry year wherein people could

Suppl:;. [9 DECEMBER.] Supply. 625

exhibit Yancus inventions fro1n which selec­tions could be mad.e that might be handed down to posterity. In the Belgium Museum ho saw specimens of glass-blowing showing the progress of that industry frorn its incep­tion through various stages up to the proso11t day. Ho thought the various minm·als ''- hich arc no1v housed in the :Ylines Departlncnt might very '·'ell be tramferrcd to the 1nuscun1. lie should like to sec the Prc­n1ier allocating a certain an1ount of n1oncy for the e'tablishmont of a museum of nature. l-Ion. n1en1bPl'S opposite 1nlght laugh, but that ·was because they did uot understand the matter to which he refereed. In t.ho tilll"<-'UU1 at CapetowD there Yn:re various wax figure~ of the natives, and he thought it onlv right that in tl1c Queensland :.\Iuseum they should haYe wax figures of the aborigi­nals who ""Cl'0 dvi11g out-and among them he thought thE'~; n1ight include the hon. lllf'rnber for r:roo"\\"OOnlha. Tho l1lUSCUl11 iYOS an education for pupils attending our secondary schools and also for the g·eneral puhli~. He should lik0 to see exhibited in the n1usev.n1 rnouids of the ravag0s of various diseases existing in {lueensland. He had tnmPcl up thl' report of the Department of Health, and from that report he found cer­tain figures with regard to venereal di~eascs. There vas no reason why they should hide from thcmseh-<'s the effl'cts of the ra.-o.­ges of that disease on a nnrnbc>r of peoph_-:., as the report showed that children ono ~yc:1r old and adults sixty years of age ~_,·,~re su11'ering from that diseasu in Queensland. It was also Bho,Yn that thcro 'vere nuLwrous insranf'CS in Yi-~hich peop]o \Ycrc suffering fmm this complaint.

The CHAIR:VlA='I: Order! I must point out to the hon. n1ernber that ··ye are not now dealing with the liealth Deparhnent, and that his remarks arc quitP irrclcYant to th{~ quf stion before the Committee.

\t forty minutes past 9 o'clock p.m.,

The CHAEDTA:-f rr•sumed the chair,

Mr. KERR: Ho \Yas pointing out the neLessity for additions being made to the u1useun1, and he tbought that n1ost of the matters he' had mentioned should coiHe under that vote. 1-lo\vevcr, he -:,ould turn to another matter which he hoped r!J,. Prcn1ier v.:oukl take sornc notice of. 1-lo referred to the various war trophies belon"· ing to Queensland which \Yf'l'C novv in ~Ie!­bournc. Queensland \vas the only State which had not taken pose"·ion of its war trophiec. He understood that the director of the museum had alr·each· had some corres­pondence with the Chief Secretary's Office on the subject, and that a certein aecount \Yhich had been submitted by the Commonwealth (~overnment had b"cn r<'pndiatcd b.'· the State. The State of Queensland would not pay the freight on those \Yar trophies and arrange for their being brought to Quccns­lanrl, I •1 a letter received fro;n the Director of Trophies in Melbourne it "as stated-

" The reason the guns and trophies are not being· sent forwar·d is that the trophy people~here cannot get the Quecns­hnd Go,·crmnent to agne to pay the freights from horfl to th<' destination of the Yarious tronhics. 'I'he other States have agreed, aitd, in consequence, their trophies are going forward."

Those trophies included guns of various calibre, and they were lying in Melbourne unprotected at the present moment. They

1920-2 R

should be of interest, not only to the men who had been to the war, but also to tho general public, and they might be the means of instilling into the children of Queensland a patriotic spirit which was at present lack­ing on the part of the GoYernment, He would ask that serious consideration be giyen to the quo,tion of bringing the trophies to Quccllsland, and that no time would be lost in g-etting then1 here.

Mr, MOHGAN: The remarks of the hon. member for Enoggcra certainly ea lied for some r·eply hom the Premim·. The hon. gentleman should tell the Committee what he intended doing in regard to the freight and carriago on the trophies referred to. The hon. member for Enoggera stated defi­nitely that certain war trophies \YOre in :Melbourne, and that the Queensland GoYcrn­ment had refused to pay the freight to Queens! and.

The PnE~rn:R: That is quite wrDng.

::VIr. :dlORGAN: The !ton, member had nad a letter from the d8partmcnt in lWel­boui'IW, stating that the trophies were lying thcec awaiting a reply fl·orn tho Queensland Coyernincnt.

The PREJ\HER: IIe had to thank the hon. ~nembt r for Enoggcra for bringing the matter up, but the statement made in the letter quoted seemed to be somewhat inaccu­rate. The Queeneland Goyernment had offered to pay the freight on the tror:hies to Queensland, and there was a commrttee in Brisbane arranging for the distribution of the trophies to the yarious local authori­ties, and, no doubt, the local al!thoritico to whom the trophic' were sent yyould agree to pay tlto cost from Bri·,bane to their rcspectiYe destinatior·

Mr, KERR thanked !he Premier for the information; but he would point out that the people who first initiated the matter had recrei ,-eel no reply to the adYancr;s made to the Chief Secretary early last month.

:\Ir. M.:\.XWELL: He had some informa­tion on the matter, and it was only fair that he should give it to the Committee. Some fc1.v weeks ago inforn1ation '"as conveyed to the Citv of Brisbane Council that those guns \vere g'oing to be landed in Brisbane, and the Queensland Government approached the citv conncil as to whore tlw landing-place w~·s to be, and asked that necessary stops be taken for the distribution of the trophies. Tlw matter was left in the hands of the ::VIa vor of Brisbane to call a meeting of the Yar;ous local authorities when the guns arriYed and arrange for their distribution. As ::YlaYOl' of Bri banc lw had rPe<•i,-cd an intimat.ion from the Government at the time that they wonld do all they possibly could. in the matter.

Mr. FERRICKS : Ho regretted that there ,,·as an attcrnpt to make political c'1pita] ou:i of the delay that had been occasioned in connection with the deliYery of the war trophies. He held that Queensland had ll­

sufliciont number of war trophies in th~· crippled and disabled men who were walkin<; tho streets.

:Mr. 'WEIR: Ho sincerclv trusted that the allocation of the war trophies would take place after the introduction of the adult franchise in municipal affairs, because he was hoping that the better thought they would have in municipal councils as a result

Mr. Weir.]

626 Supply. [ ASSE.MBL Y.] Supply.

of t'w bl'Oad'-'1· franchise would eliminate fwm their s··hools-and at least from the areas where children were going to be trained-any trace of tho system that had gone before. He was hoping that the chil­dren in his electorate would be taught some· thing big·ger and nobler than looking on the implement< of destruction. As the hon. member for South Brisbane had said, they had something in the way of trophies that they were not likely to forget. There was the fact that they had crippled men walking <>bout the streets, many of them being compelled to adopt street singing for a living.

:\Ir. Knw: And you never gave a "bob'' to a sing 1 e one.

2\Ir. \VEIH: An eligible telling him what ho should have done! A man who ran away from his responsibilities telling him what he should have done.

Ti1e CHAIHMAN : Order ! Mr. \VEIH : So far as Maryborough was

concerned, he was very emphatic, and he wanted to remind the Committee that the Commonwealth had a memorial of the war that they would havo to look straig-ht in the face for many years to come. They had ruined men staring them in tl1e face to-day, and, as a matter o£ face, the Commonwealth Government T1ad not done their duty to those men.

Mr. KERR: Children don't know v.-hat they talk about.

The CHAIRMAN: Order! Offensive interjections of that kind arc disorderly.

Mr. WEIH: He did not mind interjections of that kind. as he knew they came from an hon. member who had referred to mem­bers on the Government si-de as " imbe­ciles." and who had admitted that he himself vvas a Inan ·with a sin1ple rnind. He synlpa­thiecd with the hon. member in his affliction. He was not one of those who wont to the front and blackguarded those who did not go.

The CHAIRMAN : Order ! The question of the war does not arise on this vote.

Mr. WEIR: He hoped, in his district at least, that rather than cater for war trophies in the shape of guns, they would cater for a higher and nobler sentiment that woul-d for all time stop war. (HBar, hear !)

Mr. STZEH: He sincerely hoped they would see a large number of war trophies distributed throughout Queensland before ver:c· long, and he complimented the Premier and the Government for their generosity in arranging for those trophies to be brought to Queensland. Ho also complimentod the two hon. members on the Government side "'ho had spoken for their outspokenness in their opposition to the Government's pro­posaL The object of the trophies was to have a permanent monument t<:> the part which Queenqland played in the great war. He was not discussing now the rights or wrongs of the war, but he had always main­tained that they had a duty to perform, and the:· performed it.

The CHAIRiYIAN: Order! I have alreadv pointed out that that qur-,tion does not come up for discussion on this vote.

Mr. SIZER: He was surprised to hear tho reme.rks of hon. members opposite, realising that they were only sitting in that Assembly as a result of the efforts made by

[Mr. Weir.

Quecnslander,, in common with their com­rades throughout the world, in the strugglo wh1ch had taken place. In past wurs--

The C:ILUR2VJAN: Order ! I cannot allow the· hon. n1c1nb(!r to discuss the origin o.f the \.Yar or V\:ar problon1~: _Those ques­hons cannot poss1bly come vnthm the scope of the vote for the museum.

Mr. SIZER: . They were doing nothing new or oxtraordrn ary. After previous wars so1n? rnen1cntoes to perpotua tt? tho rnemory of tne: tnen who had fa.llcn 111 those \Vars had al wa_y, been secured ; and, e ion if thB two hon. nu~tllbcrs IYho had spoken on the other side did not agree with the cause for \vhich tfi·eir n1en had foug_ht, :,urcly they had a ccrtarn al!10unt of adrnuahon for the ser­vices rendered by their soldiers. There could be no objection to distributing tro­phies of the ;rar throughout the State, as the maJonty of the people desired to have wch trophies. He was glad to know that the Government were anxious that the dis­tribution should take place immediately. In spite of what the hon. member for Mary­borough had said, he hopod that the Govorn­HlCilt would discourage any atten1pt to l'xpungo all references to tho war fron1 the school. books. (Hear, hear!) He also hoped that, when the time came, the Government would s_•o that there was a suitable unveil­ing of the memorials, and he was sure that the majority of the people in the State "-ould commend the Government for any action they might take in that direction. He had not intended to speak, but he could n0t allow the remarks made bv the two hon. members on the other side to" pass with­out protest. As to what had fallen from the hon. member for ::\lar_yborough, did the hon. 1nemhcr not know that returned soldiers were being retrenched in the Governrnent­service at the present time?

The CHAIRXIAN : Order ! ::\lr. CORSER: Rec-ently, he had received

a letter from a number of the local authori­ties in his electorate asking hin1 to approach the Committee who were responsi blo for the distribution of trophies, with a Yiew to­~ 'Curing n1orc trophies than '''ere reallv their quota. ·

:\h. MORGA:-i: You might get Mary­borougb's .•hare. They don't want any.

Mr. CORSER: Ho must contradict the hon. member for 2V1urilla. He knew the spirit of the people of Maryborough, and he knew that the peopl-e of Maryborough did want memorials of the great war. He spoke not only for the returned soldiers and their wiVE'' and mothers but for the pe<:>ple of Maryborough and the Marybowugh district.

::\Ir. \VEI.LING'fON: Yon have it to your credit that you had three brothers at the front. (Hear, hear!)

l\Ir CORSER: He considered it an honour that he had thr-oe brothers at the front. If there was anything that Australians could be proud of, it was the fact that they were able to secure trophies to show that their Eoldiers had been Yictorious jn the great ":n-. (Hear, hear!) The peoplo of the Bmnett and Maryborough districts did not _,-ant all the war trophies to go to the metropolitan and Southern districts. They v:antcd to s0cure for themselves a fair pro­portion of the trophies. The letter h€ had received came not only from the '£own Council of Gayndah but from the Rawbell0

Supply. [0 DECEYIBER.] Supply. 627

Shire Council rrnd other shjro councils, and "skcd him to find out whether there was a C)ucensland distribution corn1nittee. so that th·-:y· n1j~ht secure 1nore h'OlJhics thap ·were BuportionFd to thrrn. fie was spcalnng not o;Jly for the country districts but also for ~laryborough.

i'.lr. \YEIR: You are welcome to our share.

~-lr. CORSER: It was in the interests of the mothers and the soldi.ot·s of the :Yiary­borongh district that they should so.cure the full quota that they were entitled to.

Mr. \YEm: There are plenty of crippled men there.

:\Ir. CORSER: There were p\enty of 1'C>turncd soldiers there. lie \vas voicing tho '\euti n1e11ts, not only of every mother. and

returned soldier, but of the fnends of r<'turned soldiers in Maryborough.

1\lr. 'WEIR: ::\1y family represents more rcturn--·d soldiers than yours.

Mr. CORSER: The hon. member did not n'pre ,ent their scntin1ents.

:'.Ir. WEIR: I do-eYery man jack of them. You don't.

The CHAIRMAN : Order ! Order! Mr. CORSER: His s,,ntiments were with

the returned soldiers and with that yoto.

Tho CHAIRMAK: Order! I ha ye alr" ady called seYeral hon. members to order for attempting to d;eal with matters quite extraneous to the vote. The hon. member knows that, and I hope he will l" sncct my call to order. If he continues to di;ire3s, i shall have to take some other action.

::VIr. CORSER: He repeated that he voiced the sentiments of practically the whole of the soldiers in his district, and he was prepare cl to support the hon. mc!ll· bcr for ~I aryborough in any request that he mip:ht make for war trophies for Mary­bol:ough, as he knew that the majority of the people of :M~ryborough were loyal eo the returned sold1ers and to the cause for which they fought.

[10 p.m.] The CHAIRMAN: Order ! The hon.

member cannot get away from my ruling. IIe 1ray consider himself to be very adroit in disregarding the Chairman's ruling, but, if he now attempts to do so, I will order him to discontinue his speech.

Mr. CORSER: He was going to preserve his privileges in debate. This vote was in the hands of members, and he had a right to express himself.

The CHAIRMAN: Order! The hon. m ern ber has a right to express himself in accordance with the Standing Orders, and in accordance with the question before the Committee.

Mr. CORSER: 'I'hat was what he was going to do. 'This was a vote which was approved of by the majority of the people of Queensland, and, as representing the Burnett electorate, he was going to support it, and exrn'es,~ his viev,s as his conscience direeted hin·. The cities of Melbourne and Svr'ney vmuld be jealous of the country districts in Queensland receiving the war memorials which they were entitled to got. He noticed that the entomologist at the Brisbane rnuseum had received an increase, and, as one who had interested himself in no

small degree in the entomology and path­ology of the State, he expressed his apprecia­tion of the GoYcrnment for their action in rotuining the services of the gentleman -who was responsible for the collection at the museum, vvbich would be of great value to our future generations. The collection was one which the State could be justly proud.

Mr. HARTLEY (Fitzroy): Ho was grati­fied that the Premier had been ahead of the request of the hon. 'IT ember for Enoggera in saying that the Government would provide for the transit of th<ese war trophies.

OPPOSITION ME:\IBERS : Hear, hear!

Mr. HAHTLEY: These trophies would not always speak in encouragement of war. Ninety per cent. of the people in the world were against war, but unfortunately, no one had yet found the m<eans of preventing it. The exhibition of the trophies would show those who came after the breed of men that their fathers or brothers were; and, being exhibi­ted in the humble spirit which victury brought, would cause the younger generation to think with respect and pride of the men who won those trophies.

Ho,;ocRABLE :iYIE~IBERS: Hear, hear ! Mr. HARTLEY: Many people in Queens­

land who had lost a son or ,a brother might stand beside those trophies, and, amidst all their sadness, feel proud of the fact that those who belonged to them were possibly in the conflict whore the trophies were won. This State and Commonwealth had to be held for the white race, and the trophies would go fur to inculcate in the young 'lY ind a spirit of pride in our race and flag.

HoNODRABLE l'v1E>IBERS : Hear, hear !

Mr. HARTLEY: While we would all welcome the day-

" vVhen the war drum throbs no longer, And the battle flags are furled,"

stilL until that day, we want our race to stand fast, and to grow in such a way that we would hold this countrv and make it one of the foremost countries of the world.

The CHAIR::MAN : Order ! Mr. HARTLEY: He did not wish to get

away from the Chairman's ruling; but, at the same time, he did wish to associate him­self with the spirit of the Premier when he decided to bring those trophies here for exhibition purposes, that they might be seen by the relatives of those who had taken part in this great fight for t.ho freedom of this Commonwealth and the Empire.

HoNOURABLE ME~rBERS : Hear, hear !

Mr. HARTLEY: If thev looked upon thorn in the light that they were the custodians of the fruits of their victory and the trustees of their sacrifices, responsible for seeing that the price they had paid should not 'ha ye been paid in vain, then they would. in deed and in fact appreciate the exhibition of those trophies in t,he museum.

HoNOURABLE ME~!BERS: Hear, hear !

Mr. COLLINS: He had no objection to the trophies coming here. By all means let them come so that the children of the future -who, he hoped, would live in a more enlightened age-might see t,he implements of destruction which were used in t.he late gr~at _;var, and so hate and avoid the mis­takes mankind made and avoid the devasta­tion and terrible distress which the world

Mr. Gollins.]

628 Supply. [ASSEl\IBL Y.] Supply.

n;Hv -..v<~s pa~"ing through owing to that war. 'Ihcy "-ould be the means mavbe of educat­ing their children; when they saw the manhmcry used m the war they might learn to avoHl such barbarism-for it ,, as bar­bal'lsm. If he could, he would have them 1:r: . ~very ('ity, town, and village in the cn·d1sed world. or the portion which "as not C1v1hscd. 1\la;. bo the portion which was r?g~a~dc,d as b(~ing not ciYiliscd wa;;; more c!vJlJSer! than the portion which called iteolf ClvihsNl. Lot the children sec the trophies GO that they would ayoid tho mistakes which --..vo 1n tl:us a,ge ha{I rnadc; because it was not applicable to one counh·y, but to all. VVo were sttll 111 a state of barbarism when we had to exhibit such machines as the hon. "!lle1nbcr for Enoggera \Y._._ntoJ to ·h ._vc shown In eYcry centre in Queensland.

.i\Ir . .F. A. COOP EH: Ho bolieved tho ntuseun.l \', ~s a very necessary institution and one "·h1ch had done a considerable amount of good. n(, hopocl it would be extended in '"'cr:v possible cl_irectiop. IIc also hoped that the t~wns n,nd c1hcs 01 the State) which were gro-..nng, 1n1p·ht have the <Hlvuntag(~S extended tD thorn wh,1;h the people of the capital city no}Y ,had . .c I here \vas noth1ng better for the clnldrcn CH tlw country than to come down and 'pen cl 3 day at the n1useu1n, "\Yhcre thev would sec 111uch that vva·s intercstinrr an(l n1l!ch that . wa~ instruf'tive. I-I c, hin1self, bomg a clnld 111 the country had spent a day there :-'Jn1e considerable u iin1e ago, and g:ot ont of the regular 11as.;lages of thr institu­twn. By son1c 1ncans or other, ho had got down bencnh, an<;{ found therce practically a fully-eqmppcd prmt111g establishment. He found there type of cxcell<>nt quality, of fine {.1CBlg~, that had never been on a printincr ~ach1nc-fonts, and fonts, and fonts of It. HP sai.d .to ono of t·he ~1ttt'?ndants, "I-Io-..v long has th1s been here." .Ho said, "Oh f~r Jyear~ and years." So h~ VYl'Dte to th~ Unuer Secretary of the Ch12f Secretary's Department and said. "There is a lot of type at the museum >dnch 1_s apparently useless Ro far as the n1useurn Js conrcl'ned and if :vou put ~· price npon it I mig·ht zlecide to purchase 1t. ' He wrote back and said "The Gm·ermnont Printer is being asked t~ put a pn_co upon thts type." The GDYernrnent P~1ntrl' \Ycnt ol:l-t ancl said, "1\tly gracious, Hns ha: b.een lyu1g hcl'e for year.-.s- and years, and tl11s IS the n:ry stuff I have v antcd"; arK! he grabbed 1t. It shD\Ycd tlnt there had bocu in thci past a considerable lack of supervision of the museum. He hoped t-hf..' rnuscun1 \Yould be extended) that its use~ fulnc:·.s would be of wider range to the pcoplc

1 of Queensland. He saw no objection

to ns t10lLSlng ono Ol' two trophies of the 1var. It "~s not the trophy it elf, but tho light Ill \\.ruch It wa-s V!P\Yed und the u3e -..vhjch was made of it. Ho could go into a Christian church to-day and see there a. cross. He kne·.1 that the croes represented to him, and reprc•,entcd to all Christ:endorn, that thoro was once upD:n a tirne a SaviDur of n1ankind who gave his life upon the cross, and he looked npon that croH with n'vorcnce and something which taught him U1e lesson it was intended to teach. But if he were to go lntD a synagogue and sco a. croes, and bem 1th it tho legend that "This was the instrument upon which we crucified the pre­tended_ God," it would raise in him passions that m1ght not be for the good of mankind. And if they as a people used the war troph_y, not to show the g·ood points Df it, but to show the bad points of it and the bad things

[Mr. Collins.

of hu1nan nature, theY would be tnisusing it. l-Ie was pleased that c the words of the hon. moruber for lVlar:vborough, trhc hon. member for Bom:m, and the hon. member for Fitzro:v had lll'OUght the \Yholc of this matter in a nctv light L to the hon. n1en1ber fDr- Enoggera. Unqucstionabl:v. when he spoke upon this matter, ho wanted the trophies as cm blems of smnething to tcaeh thc1n -..vhat they should do in the hiturc. "

Mr. KEim: ::\o: the <>mblcms of patriotism that came forward in Queensland.

Mr. F. A. COOPEH: As far as the exhibi­tion of trophies was concerned, it could not nwkc anv diff'crcnc0 to them as to how thev ,-ie'n'd the action of the men and the deed's tlwv did. As far as that side of the House \Ya.S conr=:rncd, they could viL:sv the ·wonderful and .heroic deeds of those men without any battcn'd old gun or old tank to remind thcn1. If thuv <L mnscun1 to rmnind theta of the -\yonderful de-eds of those n10n, they wen; a poor people. The n1uscurn should be in their hearts and minds and fctncies. In these matter::; their actions spoke louder than mere \Yorde. He trusted that the actions of the people to'.Yards thc,;e men who did these \Y01ll1orfnl docde \vould speak louder than the placiug of a battered gun m· 11 disabled tank in a museum. Ilo hoped the advantag-es of the rnmeum would be spread to the countrv tmvns. He "anted to see a mLFoum in Ipswich. The_y had the nucleus of n1u.:<ennts in various centres and thf-)V shonlcl Sf'e that they were collected and hroug·ht togeth"l'. I-Ic had not .had the .adYantagP of the hDn. n1ombcr for Enoggcra Di seeing thr'; musf'lUn in Belglu.Jn, but he had soon the Ycrv fine collection of the flora and fauna of the district collected bv the school children at Cowflat. He had rwt .had the opportunity of seeing the wonderful collection of thing·s at Capotown, as had tho hon. mem­ber for Enogg·era, but he had sfJen a local collection of skulls and other bones of aboriginals which it would do the hon. mem­ber's heart good to sec. IIe trnsted the vote wonld be: incrcas0d when DppDrtunity offered and that the country might have the oppor­tunity which the city now ,had in that direction.

J'IIL BEBBI~GTO~ thanked the Premier for 1)utting this urnount on the Esti1nates. Ho loolwd upon trophicc in perhaps a diftN<'nt \vav from some people. He lod'kod npon them as the l"'sult of the finest brain power of their working men throughout the Empire. They were what saved t,he Empire and Austraiia. Were it not for those trophies, and the men who built the.m and usPd tlwm, to-day \YC would ha vc had foreign troops in Brisbane.

The CHAIRl\L\N : Order !

l\11-. BEBBI:'\GTOX: He wanted these kept het·r to remind us that if it had not b<Jen for them Brisbane to-clav would have bc{~ll garrisoned by foreign troops. They \\·onld be here for the purpose of collecting their \Yar debts. and hon. members would have to giYC' part of their salaries to pay them. He hoped that not onl:-' in Brisbane but in other parts of tho country they would realise what those trophies meant to young _\ustralia.

Mr. G. P. BARNES: The Committee might safely allow the matter to rest on the very lino expression of the hon. member for .Fitzroy. (Ilear, hear!) There were certain

Supply. [9 DECEl'IIBEH.] Supply. 629

trophies \Yhich were associated \Yith parti­cular places in Queensland, and he under· stood there were possibly more than one with "·hich \Yarwick lads \\ere identified. He took the opportunity of putting in a claim on b0half of \Yan1·ick for them.

Question put and pas~:t:'cl.

PrBLIC LIBRAHY OF QUEENSLAND.

The PREMIER movd-That £1,679 be granted for "l'ublic Library of Queensland."

Qur-;tion put anrl lHlSSed.

PUBLIC SEHYICE CO}!MISSIOKEH.

The PREM1ER mov0d-That £8,110 be granted for " Public Scnicc Commissioner."

Hox. \Y. II. BAR;\.'ES asked when they 'vcrc likely to get t!w report of the Public .Srrvic<' Conuni~~ioncr? It \vas not poss1ble for them to discm., the vote adequately \Yithont the Connnis:-_;ioncr's report.

The PREMIER: The Commissioner ex­plained that he had been in office only three months, and he did not propoce to present a report till next year. Of course, he had taken the place of the Public Service Board, which clid not is~uc a report but Yarious papers, which '"ould still be issued.

Ilo:;r. W. II. BARNES: EYcry hon mem­ber of the House would realise that the Con1rnissionl'r wns one in \Yhon1 thev had the fullest confldc:'nce-(Hear, hear !)-y;·hich was a reason why the report would bo all the more valuable. He '"ould like to know why there had been a. big increase in the amount for travelling expense~, expenses of inquiries, and incidentals 7

The PRK!\liER: The organisation was cmite different from .,-hat it was under the Board. The Commissioner was provided with an in~pector and a relieving staff, and naturally traYelling expenses \vere much hea,-icr, but he thought that the return to the Rtat.0 in incrcas~d e!licicncv ancl bf~tter control of the service \\"US far !DOre satisfac­tory.

Hox. \Y. H. BARNES: Do the officers of schools conw under this?

The PnE:HJER: Yes.

HoN. W. H. BAR::\fES: Not many days ago an hon. mc1nbcr asked a question in regard to teachers.

The CHAIRCIL\N: Order ! The question of teachers cannot be discussed under thrs vote.

HoK. W. H. BARNES: He certainlc· under­stood that. the question of officers of schools came under the vote, and they were con­trolled by the Commis.' ion cr.

The PnDIIER : They come under the Public Inst.rudion Departm<>nt. The Com­missionm· under the Act has control of certain n1atters relating to public servants, hut th~t would not give you the right to criticise e.-cry department under this vote.

I-Iox. W. II. DARNES: They might find thcmseln;e, ,_t n later period, without any fault of the Premier. .shut out from discus­sing such rnattt'r~ a~ the responsibility for what \ras done to certain ofiicers lately.

The CHAIR:UAN: I suggest that the hon. member deal with the question before the Corrnnittcc.

HoN. W. H. BARXES: He would like to know the difference between the amount paid

to the Commif'·;ioner and the officer previ­ously in charge, Mr. Madsen. what was the reason for the appointment of an inspector, nnd whether the increase to the secretary of £25 was under the usual a ,.-ard?

The hell indicated that the hon. member's ti1ne had expired.

At half-past 10 o'clock p.m.,

The CHAIRMAN said: Under Stancling Order No. 306 I must now leave the cha.ir and make my re110rt to the House.

The House resumed. The CHAIRMAN reported progrc,s, and the Committee obtained leaYG to sit again to-morrovv.

CHILLAGOE A::\fD ETHERIDGE RAIL­\YAYS /1.CT AMEKDC\lEKT BILL.

REn'RXED FR01! CouxciL.

The SPEAKER announced the receipt of rr rues ,age fron1 thQ Council returning this Bill without a1nendmrnt.

INSCRIBED STOCK BILL. IKITIATIOX.

The TREASL:RER, in moving-" lrhat the I-Iou:-"Q will, at its next

sitting, re·.olYc it·"l'lf into a Con1n1ittee of the \Vhole to consider the desira.ble-1H)s--, of introducing a Bi1l to a.uthorisc nnd regulate the creation and issue of inscribed stock ,,.iihin the State, and for purf.,:)ses consequent th>reon "~

saiU: .At the Dl'C'SCllt tinH' the Govcnunent ha\·c aurhorit,\; to i~suc bill~, bonds. anJ dPhcnturcs, but not i uscribPd tock, and we 1Yant authmity to i"ne inscribed stock as \\'ell.

::\lr. ;,;QORE: Is not the l'remier going to make some statement with rc:!gm·d to the Go­\'f'rnmc:~t Loan Bill? \Ve understood that ho v;us going to givo the Uousc some infor­mation as to the intentions of the Govern­nwnt, a 11d I think this is the time when he Juigbt ruakc his datc:;ucnt so that wo n1ay know exactly where we stand, and whether the reasons for introducing this Bill arc satidactory or not.

Question put and passPd.

ADJOURNMENT.

Thv PREJ\IIER : I beg to move-That the House do nmY ndjonrn. The busiuoss to­monm·; will be the further consideration of Supply.

Hox. \V. H. BAR::\fES: Seeing that the qufstion in connec~ion \Yith loan money is to come up to-morrow on the Bill which the Treasurer ha~ ju:::t obtained lease to intro­duce. I c sk the PremiPr when he will he prcp~aPd to furnish the House with informa­tion of a .-ital natnre '"ith r0gard to the finances of the State-information in which llu public arc deeply concerned.

Thco PRE~IIEH: \Yhat information do you desire?

Hox. W. II. BARJ\;ES: Any information in conncct.ion with loan matters which is of vltal concern to the con1n1unity.

'l'he PRE'\IIER: When the Bill which the Tre:JS1Irer has been gi,-en leave to introduce is under di. 'US'ion, full information will be ginn 'vhich will illustrate the necessity for the Dill.

Question put and passed. The House adjourned at twenty-five minutes

to 11 o'clock p.m.