Former CEO of News Corp Kim Williams on ABC Radio Melbourne, Monday February 23, 2015

Host: Data retention? Yes or no

Kim Williams: I think not. I think that liberties are very hard fought for and very easily lost and the case for increasing the intervention rights of the various security agencies has never been made properly. The application of the use of metadata has never been explained. And the case would seem to be built on an analysis of the tragedy of Man Haron Monis in a way that beggars belief. I mean on any reasoned analysis the tragic situation of Man Horan Monis is a case of an individual who was, it would appear, unbalanced behaving in a profoundly dangerous and unbalanced fashion but it is not evidence of terrorism.

Host: The argument – and it’s an easy one for the security services to run – the argument is give us more money and we might be able to detect these things and make you safer. It’s a pretty easy one for politicians to say, ‘OK, we have to do that or otherwise we’re accused of negligence’.

Kim Williams: Well I think that it’s incumbent upon all in the media and all in the political community to be vigilant about the encroaching power of the state. Liberty is a relatively recent concept in history and it is very easily attacked, frankly, in ways that do not grace the advocates. I have yet to see one coherent argument advanced for increasing the existing extravagant powers that repose with all of the various agencies. And given that there is so little transparency attached to any of these activities, one is actually dependent upon old fashion trust. Now if we take a recent example of gross intrusion and abuse of power in NSW in relation to Nick Kaldas and all of the repeated warrants that were issued in order to pursue him and others on the basis of what would appear to be gossip, innuendo and basic false information, and where there was an aura (sic) of concern, the only thing that was going to protect us was the action of the court and it would appear the court trusted the police who were advocating repeatedly to have these warrants renewed.

Host: And the Prime Minister is saying sometimes we are being played for suckers and we shouldn’t keep on giving people the benefit of the doubt, which is one of the most fundamental pillars of our justice system.

Kim Williams: But it would seem to me that it’s about time that we don’t give the benefit of the doubt to the various agencies; that it’s about time they started to behave in a professional, reliable and thoroughly provable fashion and actually make the case good for increased powers. It’s not as if they do not already have extensive powers.

Host: Dare I say it the newspapers that you used to be in charge of - some of those are fermenting the climate of fear that the Prime Minister uses to get these extra powers introduced.

Kim Williams: Needless to say I have no writ to act in any advocacy position for those particular newspapers. I think the general environment of hysteria - and I think it often is a hysterical environment that surrounds so many of these issues - is less than helpful to considered action. And I think we all need to be particularly alarmed at the ease with which people advocate positions that are aggressively against the nature of liberties.