joe cell geoff egel - hydrogen-oxygen gas experiments, 30p

Part 1

My Experiments with hydrogen/oxygen gas

By Geoff Egel

part two of this article

part three of this article

part four of this article

part five of this article

part six of this article please read first

A WORD OF WARNING: If you fill a

closed container with an explosive gas

mixture, as an example one (1) part

oxygen and two (2) parts hydrogen

you will have set the stage for

accidental explosion. Hydrogen and

oxygen can and will explode with

violent effect. To know of this, and to

teach this, and not carefully warn all

parties is to ignore your place as

scientific ethical investigator.

I have been experimenting with this

setup as described below.

Whilst the gas output volume of this

unit is not great due to the low powered

solar cell, I am using to power the

electrolysis part of the unit <2> it does

seem to work.

I would have preferred to have used stainless steel fitting in place of the brass one as I feel

over time they may corrode with the contact with the caustic soda and water.

The Unit consist of four parts<please refer to diagrams and photographs>

You should be able to get everything you need to make this unit from a plumber or hardware

store apart from the stainless steel mesh and the solar cell.

Make sure end caps are glued securely as water may not leak from end caps when press fitted

together,but if there is any small open gaps on the end caps the gas will then force the water

out,and the unit will not function correctly.

The photo above shows how I have fibre glass inside of endcaps to make an air tight seals

around the brass connections after being screwed first into the endcaps.

This in the same for all endcaps connections throughout this series of articles.

1. The Solar Cell

2. Gas Generator

3. Gas Storage Unit

4. Pressure Balance and Reserve water supply.

The Solar cell is rated at 36 watts 12-17 volts at 3 amps

GAS GENERATOR UNIT

The gas generator is a piece of 7" by 4" inch diameter plastic storm water pipe with end caps

The electrodes are made of stainless steel punched out fine mesh there are 4 pieces rolled into

cylinders of 1" diameter 2"diameter 3" diameter and 4" diameter and each piece is five inches

high.

If you wish to experiment I don't believe the height is critical but the spacing could be ,I guess

a little more experimenting is called for.

I would have preferred to have had them welded closed but unable to find anyone that could

do it for me. ,so I used some stainless steel wire to hold them closed.

The diameter are held apart with some plastic tubing jammed in.

All flexible clear plastic tubing used is Ľ" approx.

The inner 1" inch stainless steel cylinder has a negative terminal from the solar cell connected

to it

The outer 4" inch stainless steel cylinder has a positive terminal from the solar cell connected

to it as well.

On top end cap the power leads from the solar cell are terminated by means of brass screws

tightly fitted into the plastic cap and screwed through and joined with stainless steel leads to

the internal stainless cell cylinders inside the storm water pipe.

The tap end cap has also two brass fittings

The brass connections come with a screw thread on one side and the other side allows a

plastic hose to be connected to it and secured with a hose clamp.

To Put these in the plastic end caps ,drill a hole in the plastic end caps slightly smaller the

than the outer diameter of the brass fitting

Then use the brass fitting thread end to tap the previously drilled hole and then screw it up

tightly so that it is air tight when plastic hoses are connected to it later.

The completed gas generator It may be advisable to position an extra internal connection on the water return inlet to allow

the water level to be lower than the gas outlet fitting.

A perhaps better way of producing gas by means of electrolysis described at bottom of this

page. But I have not tried it yet.

The idea of this construction comes from the lessons learnt from the Joe Cell although this one will function as

such.

Please before sealing unit add some caustic soda (lyre> or baking soda to help with

conductivity of the water when introduced to the unit at start up phase later on. .

Hydrogen Gas can also be produce by dissolving aluminum in caustic soda and water.(not

applicable to this set up) but this design could be modified to this however.

WHEN USING CAUSTIC SODA PLEASE BE CAREFUL AS THIS WILL CAUSE

NASTY BURNS IF EXPOSED TO YOUR SKIN.

GAS STORAGE VESSEL

This a length of plastic storm water pipe with two end caps secured in placed to enable it to be

airtight .

On each end of the 4" storm water end caps are placed with two brass pipe fittings placed on

the top and bottom of each end cap as per photo below.

There are two fitting on each end cap. (top and bottom)

On end One.

One plastic tube from the gas generator (gas outlet) is connected to top most position of the

gas storage vessel

The Lower position is connected to water return pipe to the gas producer.

One end two

The top most fitting is connected to a gas outlet fitted with a tap.

The lower fitting is connected to an open water holding tank.

PRESSURE BALANCE AND RESERVE WATER SUPPLY.

This can too be made from a storm water pipe fitted with one end cap and one brass fitting

and plastic return tubing..

The height of this storm water pipe and water within with determine the gas pressure.

The higher water the greater the gas storage pressure in the gas collection vessel assuming the

gas producer is able to produce gas under this pressure.

But in any case there should be enough water at start up, in this container to fill entirely the

gas collection vessel.

Startup .

Make sure all plastic Ľ" pipes are connected correctly as per diagram and that there is some

caustic soda in the gas generator vessel.(no water as yet.

Make sure gas supply tap is completely closed.

Fill water reservoir completely to the top.

Turn on gas supply tap and you should hear air rushing out as water supply is filling up the

gas collection vessel.

When you see water coming out of your tap

Then turn this tap to off off.

Connect the solar panel or power supply electrodes to to gas producing unit.

Now as gas is produced it will flow to the gas collection vessel , and the displaced water in

the gas collector will be returned to water reservoir.

This is also a safety method as if you produce excess gas it will also be released safely

through this feature.

If you don't overfill the water storage vessel you should be able to gauge how much gas you

have by how much water is returned to the water storage area.

The water here will also be use to push your hydro/oxy gas out of you gas collection vessel

when gas supply tap is turn on.

At first when you now open you your gas tap you will get a mixture of air and gas , and you

may need to waste all of this until all the air is displaced until you get your hydrogen oxygen

mixture.

Please be warned this Gas of this type can be extremely dangerous

A simple gas burner made from brass parts off the shelf of a hardware

store

I haven't actually used this yet but its based on a Bunsen burner.

I now don't recommend you use this design to burn gas produced with this method as

outlined.

I suspect you will have a rather large explosion including all your storage vessel.





THIS INFORMATION IS SUPPLIED FOR EDUCATION PURPOSES ONLY AND NO

RESPONSIBLY WILL ACCEPTED BY THIS AUTHOR FOR ITS MISUSE.

Webmaster comment:

I am now tending to think to high voltage uni direction pulse is the way to go as per Stanley

Meyers tend to to think that the Edwin gray pulse generator that he used in his motor

generator may be the device to accomplish the desired high voltage low current pulse.

Further emails received from an interested parties:

Thanks for the timely reply. A few hints for you since you appear to be heading in the right direction.

You are right about the pulsed high voltage. But not for the right reasons. High voltage, low

current

is not the answer since the gas production is current related.

However, if you fire a high voltage across the electrodes using tap water or better, distilled

water, and also have a low voltage, high current source impressed on the electrodes, the high

voltage will create a path for the low voltage/high current to follow,thus liberating more gas

with each pulse.

The pulse rate with determine the intake manifold pressure, which in turn will give varying

rpm. Higher manifold pressure=higher rpm's.

The system should be closed loop, with no outside air used in the combustion process. This

eliminates nitrous oxides from exhausting the engine, actually you will have no exhaust, but

will condense the water vapor formed from combustion and return the resulting water to the

fuel tank, giving a very high fuel mileage on a tank of water.

The only limiting factor here is the battery power and what methods you use to resupply it.

The obvious electric supply would be an alternator, solar cells and recovering exhaust heat in

an electrical form.

The latter is what we are hard at work on and the one area I must remain close-lip about.

Good luck----JOHN

Hi! I was reading your information on your gas experiment.

The correspondance that you posted touched on a good point, but didn't follow it far enough.

The separation of gasses is key to your safety in this experiment.

An explosion is caused by the rapid oxidation of the hydrogen (burning).

If you were to collect the oxygen and hydrogen separately, or just vent the oxygen, you would

have pure hydrogen, which, in the absence of oxygen, can't really do all that much. ,

Of course, leaks in the system can re-introduce the oxygen to the mix and make for a nice

bang... or not so nice bang.

It has been a number of years since I took Chemistry and Physics, however, I do remember

that oxygen will be released from the water during electrolysis at one of the electrodes, and

hydrogen at the other.

It should be simple enough to look it up on the web or in a chemistry or physics text. One

thing to consider is that oxygen has roughly 16x the atomic mass of hydrogen, thus taking up

considerably more space.

It would be fairly easy to tell which is which through experimentation, though it would be

much safer to do your "homework" ahead of time.

Check out web elements.com as a starting point. As with your combined gas generator, you

will have to keep this fairly well sealed, and if you intend to keep both the H2 and the O2,

you'll need to construct separate storage tanks.

The models you have on your page look like they would work nicely for this. Cheers, -Eric. :)

P.S. BE CAREFUL. Say it, think it, act it,mean it, live it.

A possible better Gas Generator

re: the electrolyser for generating your hydrogen...A mate of mine has played around with this for a long time

and he reckons that you should use 316 grade stainless steel mesh 1/16" weave...

You take two pieces 200mm x 900mm and weld a connection to the end of each one. Then

take a piece of flexible plastic (Similar to that from a milk carton) and punch holes in it

similar to meat safe material...The plastic should be 250mm x 1Mtr. Using the roll of plastic

as an interleave with equal overhang on top and sides.

Roll the whole thing up as tightly as you can. --------------------------------------------------

webmaster's note I tried using this idea using a single layer of plastic shade clothe and wound

the clothe layers and electrode cyclinders together but was unable to get any gas out of it. I

suspect the single layer plastic shade mesh trapped the gas bubbles and would not let them

escape,using two or more layers of plastic mesh between the electrode and criss crossing the

plastic mesh may be a better idea. Geoff ----------------------------------------------------------------

The roll can then be secured using plastic tie's.......The size of the roll then dictates the size of

the chamber that it fits in to.(Not the other way round).The top and bottom caps can be fitted

in the normal way. He suggests that this method using the fine stainless steel mesh, will give

you a 32 x increase in hydrogen output over flat plates for the same electrode area..However

because of the increase in hydrogen output you then need to fit a separate trickle tank of water

and a float valve to ensure that the water level in the electrolyser stays above the

electrodes......

He seems to think that the hydrogen pressure will not go above 14psi and so will not be a

problem when the engine demand is low.(Way below the level needed to blow the electrolyser

apart)...However I must admit to favouring the addition of an acetylene type flash back

arrester on the hydrogen line just prior to the carb to be on the safe side.

My mate didn't think it needed it , but better safe than sorry.

Somebody on the web page said he was hearing a hissing noise from the anode and cathode

when he used mesh . This would be normal excitation of the weave of the mesh as the

hydrogen bubbles formed on the knuckles of the weave causing the mesh to vibrate.......If you

take a piece of mesh and wiggle it like a wobbly board you will hear the same noise.....

Nothing to get up tight about, just a sign that you've increased you hydrogen output .....Hope

this helps in some way..........

Best of luck with your project, hope to start on mine shortly as I get more information from

Graham Snook.........

Ed Hurley. I tried using this idea using a single layer of plastic shade clothe and wound the

clothe layers and electrode cyclinders together but was unable to get any gas out of it. I

suspect the single layer plastic shade mesh trapped the gas bubbles and would not let them

escape,using two layers of plastic mesh between the electrode and criss crossing the mesh

may be a better idea. Geoff

Part 2


By Geoff Egel part six of this article please read first

part one of this article




A better I believe way of collecting the gas output

After doing further experiments with the gas generator setup as shown in part I have come to the conclusion that

the following is a better layout.

The connections coming out of the end caps remain the same but how they are connected are

slightly different.

With gas collector laying on its side there seems to be a problem with gas also blowing the

left over water in the plastic pipe with the gas.

With this new method gas now enters at top of storm water pipe and pushes water down under

pressure into the water holding pipe.

The gas output collect area is also located at the top of the gas storage collector and there

should not be so much of a problem now with water blown out with the gas.

There are also two connections on the bottom of gas collector and this enables water to be

returned to gas producer and any access sent to the water holding tank.

A end cap can also be placed over the water storage area to help as an aid to slightly pressure

the gas.

A slight enhancement although not shown, would be to place a non return gas valve

(something like a bicycle tyre valve ) in the top of the water storage pipe, and by this means

of a simple bike pump you could pressure the gas at output point,into say something like a

balloon.

I would also recommend an output tap located here at this position also, to allow you to

release the air pressure you put into the water storage vessel,so that you get the unit operating

again when you exhaust the gas and allow the water level to reset to correct position.

This may not be needed but I think when pressurizing in this way, two move shutoff valves

should also be placed as shown in the diagram to stop excess pressure reaching the gas

producing unit .

a schematic drawing of the top picture layout

I have been asked to describe the gas producing unit in details.

If you look at the following photographs you will see how the cell is constructed.

It consists of four cylinders of stainless steel ,the photo below show the unit in operation and

you can see bubbles of gas forming on the surface.

The bubbles have a dirty appearance due the fact the stainless steel was dirty to start will and I

run it first to clean the steel up and then remove the water from the cell and then replace.

The water also has some potassium hydroxide (lye or caustic soda are other names it is known

by)



Have Fun and be care full

Copyright Geoff Egel 2000 Please Share the contents and mention this web site to your

contacts and friends.

A hydrogen/oxygen gas generator under test and with top removed

Pictured below is how the cell is constructed before the water solution is added. In the

previous unit I have used plastic tubing to keep the stainless cylinders apart and used stainless

steel wire to form the cylinder.

I discover by accident that I could use tie's to hold the cylinders together and if I cut the

plastic tails correctly I could also use these as spacers in place of the plastic tubing and it

worked better as well.

The gas generator stainless steel elements notice the plastic ties are used to make cylinder and to keep

each cylinder separate from each other.

The basic components of the gas cell.

There four cylinders of stainless steel four sizes 4" 3" 2" and 1 inch are shown next to the four inch pipe into

which the four inch stainless steel element is already inserted

Geoff

Part 3


Geoff

A simple to make gas collector.

After playing this idea from some time (see my other pages as below.)

I have constructed this simple gas collector.

It uses the same type of gas producer and a solar cell as described on previous pages but with

a slightly different approach.(links are below)

It consists of two lengths of storm water pipe of differing diameters both with end caps to

which are inserted brass pipe outlet fitting as per diagrams.

The bottom larger pipe has two brass pipe fittings inserted into the end cap ,one connection

will be connected to the gas inlet via plastic tubing from the gas generator,the other will be for

a water return to the gas producing unit.

Please note whilst I believed the brass fittings were inserted tighly enough into end caps in

previous constructions,I have found it would keep a liquid in ,but when gas became involved

they leaked, so when the electrical connections and brass hose fitting where put into place, I

have now also placed a layer of fibre glass resin on the in side of the end caps to make an air

tight seal, and then leave it to cure overnight.

This now seems to do the trick.

I have also done this to a new gas generator unit I have just constructed as well, I found also

with my orignal unit gas producing unit,the circular plates shorted out, so if and when you are

constructing the gas generator as described ,make sure the stainless steel plates are not shorted

out when constructing unit ,prior to sealing, I have found various sizes of plastic tubing

pushed between the plates will surfice for this requirement.

Just before sealing and when the fibre glass has been set (usually leave overnight) pour some

caustic soda ) lye in to the generator casing and then seal with PVC glue.

How to make the gas storage work.

Connect up as shown in diagram.

You will need to leave you gas pipe outlet tube unconnected for the moment,(That is, if your

gas generator has been left empty,) but also held upright in a position, where water from the

storage unit will not leak out while water filling is beening carried out..

Also make sure one piece of tubing is connected to the gas unit and then begin to start pouring

water into the larger upright collection unit, until water flow starts coming out of the free

exposed connection at gas generator.

When this happens then quickly place the free piece of plastic tube from the gas collector and

secure into place on the gas generator, so that water can now flow in a circular direction from

gas generator to gas collection and back again.

Place the gas generator unit on a angle as shown in the diagram, so that the gas produced will

be collect on side of generator inner casing and then flow up the plastic tube to gas collector,

and water will be able to return flow to the gas generator.

Try to keep your gas supply tubing as short and as high as possible to aid with gas flow and

water circulation,while keeping the water supply tube as low as possible.

Place the other smaller diameter of storm water pipe, with the tap connected,into the larger

pipe now filled water, and making sure the tap is turned on, so that air will be pushed out,

when the pipe sinks to bottom,and then making sure this piece of sunken pipe is now

completely covered with water and then its time to turn the tap off.

Connect up your power supply to terminals and after a few minutes you should see bubbles of

gas coming through one of your plastic tubes into the gas collection unit.

If you keep watching the inner storm water tube, it will raise itself up, as the gas replaces the

water previously postioned at top of tube.

This is only a model of a device,but I see no reason why the idea could not be scaled up for

more pratical purposes.

Geoff







Part 4

A simple 25 litre Gas collection unit

Part four of series of my experiments with producing hydrogen/oxygen gas

a slighly diferent setup using some plastic stakes but the pressure inside the white drum

has bent them due to pressure of the gas inside.

This device consists of items purchased from the shelf,the collector is a 25 litre water storage

drum turn upside and placed inside a larger plastic container,this could also be a 200 litre

rubbish bin.

Inside this diagram below,you can see a float, this is a piece of foam through which the plastic

hose carrying the gas is inserted.

This means this gas outlet pipe will always remain at the top of the water level inside the

collecting drum.

First fill the larger container to the top with water.

You will need also to empty all the air from within the white collection 25 litre drum, and

then sink it in the larger water filed container.

The storage vessel shown had a small tap plug on the bottom side and I unsrewed this and

then replaced this when the vessel had sank.

This meant I had a container sunk and filled with water.

A future method I will use, will be to add a gas line from the top of white drum as shown in

diagram, with a tap valve and by turning this on and off

I will be able get the gas straight from the drum as it sinks and this will also allow the raising

and lowering of the gas collection drum as well.

I then placed the foam float with gas line, which of course will float to the top water level

inside the white collection drum.

After a period of five days using the gas generator and solar power as described in previous

articles the gas generator produced enough gas to lift the entire gas drum collector out of the

water.

I am trying to source some cheap used 200 litre (44 gallons) plastic drums and to try

something similar as described on this page.

diagram of total gas production and gas collection various pieces described in previous

articles







Part 5

A simple means to pressurize the gas obtain

from my hydrogen/oxygen generation unit

Part five of a series of my experiments with producing hydrogen/oxygen gas

The complete gas collection and compressor.

This drawing shows the water level of bottom pipe at time of start up and when all

valves on top of the unit are in the opened position.

This piece of equipment is made from two four inch PVC storm water elbows.

Two five foot long pieces by 4 inch pvc storm water pipe.

One piece of pvc storm water pipe 6 foot long by 4 inch diameter.

Two four inch endcaps into which are inserted some brass connection and then the inside

filled with some fibre glass to make an air tight seal.

All pipe pieces are then joined together with a normal PVC pipe glue making sure they are

water and air tight.

This endcap shows the bike valve and a brass hose connector inserted and then sealed

into position with fibre glass.

The completed end cap glue into position on the five foot length of storm water pipe.

One end cap has two brass pipe fittings inserted the other has embbed one brass pipe fitting

and one bicycle valve I got from a bike tyre tube.(this is used to pressurize the whole unit)

diagram showing water level when collected hydro/oxygen gas has forced water

upwards

On all the brass pipe fitting in the end caps, I have attached a small clear plastic hose and then

fitted a valve or a tap that can then be used to close and then to block the flow of gas or water.

Please note the bike valve only allows you pump air into this vessel and this is only in a one

way direction. To release the pressurized air, open the pressure release valve.

To start collecting gas

Make sure you fill this storm water pipe unit with water to the level in the bottom section as

indicated in first diagram above.

If you under fill this unit it may not work correctly but slightly overfilling with water should

not be a problem.

A simple funnel unit I used to fill the unit

The 2 litre soft drink bottle is approx the same diameter as the storm water ,so you should be

able to calculate how many times you need to fill this funnel to ensure bottom section of pipe

is filled correctly.

Collecting the gas

Start by connecting the gas output pipe from the gas generator to the gas inlet on this new

collector as indicated on diagrams above (please see previous articles on the gas generator)

and then open the air pressure relief valve on opposite upright pipe.

The hydrogen/oxygen gas thus produced will then force the water in the 4 inch pipe bottom

section back upwards towards the other side.

It may take a couple days to completely fill with hydro/oxygen gas if you use the same gas

generator as described in my first article.

If you see water coming out of the pressure release value you know you have a filled gas

unit,although personally I would not let it get this far.

diagram showing water level and position when air is used to pressure gas

Getting gas under pressure.

When there has been enough gas collected you can then compress it.

This is done by making sure all valves are shut especially the air release valve, and then by

using a small bicycle pump or other means to place an increased pressure in the unit.

As water cannot be compressed this will force the hydro/oxygen gas in the other chamber to

be compressed, the water in the bottom pipe section acting as a barrier between the hydro gas

and the new air you are introducing by means of the bike pump.

To recover the gas,open the hydro/oxygen gas output valve and the hydrogen/oxygen

combination gas under pressure will be released.

Or alternatively you can open the ouput gas valve and collect the gas as you pump air into the

opposite chamber section by means again of the bike pump.

A closer view of hydrogen/oxygen gas side of the unit

Please note :You will need to purge all gas out of unit for the first gas compression period as you will still

have a mixture of normal air and the hydrogen oxygen mixture and you will need to clear it out of the

system.

After pushing all gas out for the first time (by means of the bike pump connected to the

bike valve) and wait until you see water coming out of the hydrogen/gas collection point,

and then do in the following order only

(1) Turn gas collection outlet valve off

<2> open the gas inlet valve

these are on the same end cap

<3> open the air pressure valve on the other section

you should only need do this once.






Part 6

WARNING! PLEASE TAKE NOTE!

This page is intended to be a warning to you and inform what can happen if you are not

carefull, and I don't want any one injured by the information contained at these

hydrogen/oxygen pages.

Hi all

For those that have come in late I have been doing some experiments with hydrogen/oxygen

generation.

It has come to my notice lately and from a personal experience that some of the information

supplied on this series may prove to be harmful or fatal to inexperienced users.

I have tried to construct a torch as per diagram below and failed, luckily no one was hurt.

The torch was basically two tins one placed inside the other. The inner tin had a tight fitting

lid with a small nozzle in the lid. Please note this lid was tight but could be easily removed.

The outer tin was filled will water and this level was allowed to flow into the inner can.

Gas was fed through to both cans via a plastic supply tube position at bottom of can and

allowed gas to bubble through the water in inner can and exit through the top nozzle.

I let the gas bubble for a few seconds and then placed a lit match next to gas output nozzle,

where upon there was a loud explosion and the inner lid was forced off the can and also the

inner can was blown open.

If I had not had this primitive bubbler I am sure the main supply of 25 liters would have

exploded as well.

So I issue this warning to not in any way or any circumstance allow a naked flame near your

gas supply or the outlet as a flame flashback can backtrack to you main gas storage unit and

then with the possibility of exploding violently and causing injury or worse to yourself and

others.

I have had one suggestion from another source to build a small water gas bubbler between the

main gas storage supply and the gas outlet to allow minimum gas exposed to flame.

This bubbler must be strong enough to enable a back flash explosion and be stopped by the

water and the strong casing,it seems explosions are likely to happen often with danger to

yourself ,others and the property around you if this safety measure is not included.

The bubbler device ,it seems is a small strong stainless steel cylinder ,enclosed at both ends,

filled with almost to the top with water and then gas is allowed to enter at the bottom of

cylinder bubble through the water to an outlet on the top of the cylinder.

There appears there should be a gas flow with some back pressure unfortunately my design at

the moment will not allow this ,so in no way should you try to ignite the gas coming out from

design at these pages.

Because of the danger of further damage I am going to give my experiments a rest for a while

until I get a better and safer understanding of how to handle properly this gas. Contact Geoff

Egel

The following is from an email correspondent

That story on your site, about the bubbler and setting fire to the gas coming out of it, is sort of

funny.. Sort of not so funny too..

What you're up against here is the rate of flame propagation- the gas mixture has to be coming

from the orifice faster than the fire travels through it. I'm assuming that your gas is the oxy-

hydrogen mix as it comes off the electrolysis tank, and that's pretty serious stuff.

I'd not try pressurizing it even a little bit, and I'd even consider storing it (if you have to store

it) in some sort of soft container so as to not allow it to be contained if it happens to somehow

be set off.

Or maybe have a large weak spot in the storage tank that can easily blow out in a safe

direction in case of a flashback into the fuel storage.

Pressure is what is involved in an explosion, and the pressure is produced by the heat of the

reaction- If you contain this pressure the speed of the reaction (rate of flame propagation)

increases. Which produces a greater pressure, which leads to a more impressive explosion.

If you allow the pressure to escape the container you will reduce the damage involved in a

flashback. Outside storage, with the pressure relief area of the tank directed up would be a

good start. If you direct the pressure of an inadvertant explosion in any other direction you

have the potential for an unguided missile..

Keep in mind, also, that the position of the pipe taking the gas from the container influences

pressures involved in an accidental explosion- If you have a soft top on your container, and

are taking the gas out of the top then when it goes off the top comes off immediately and the

pressure is lower.

If you're taking the gas from the bottom of the container and it goes off, it takes time for the

pressure to reach the top (not much, admittedly, as the pressure wave will travel at the speed

of sound) and in that time delay you'll find much greater pressures being reached before the

top can come off- which will knock windows out of houses much farther away:-) > >DC

electrolysis allows for the gasses to be seperated, in which case you can >safely compress

them (with the proper equipment) as much as you like, which >leads to high volume storage,

etc. If you're using AC, you might look into >something like an osmosis seperation system-

don't know if anyone is into it >or not, it's just something that occured to me while writing..

>Feel free to let me know just what you're into, and how things are going as >I'm interested in

just about everything, especially alt. energy, etc. >

>John Merriman








Have Fun and be care full

Copyright Geoff Egel 2000 Please Share the contents and mention this web site to your

contacts and friends.

joe cell geoff egel - hydrogen-oxygen gas experiments, 30p

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