impact tested or normalized - boiler and pressure vessel engineering - eng-tips

8/10/2019 Impact Tested or Normalized - Boiler and Pressure Vessel Engineering - Eng-Tips

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Impact tested or normalizedthread794-349207

jtseng123(Mechanical) (OP) 2

Ju1

11:3

Dear all,

Say SA-516-70, looking at Fig UCS-66 and it falls between curve B and D. Shall I ask impact tested or normalizedmaterial ?Kind of getting rusty now for simple question. Your help please. I remember some says if the thickness is abovecertain value, ask normalized instead of impact tested.

metengr (Materials) 2Ju1

11:4

Order the material to SA-516 Grade 70 material specification, and specify a normalization heat treatment. Impacttesting is a method for either an owner's requirement or code requirement for use of the material. Please review theSA-516 material specification.

jamesl (Mechanical) 2Ju1

12:0

Order normalized will give you Curve D.

jtseng123(Mechanical) (OP) 2Ju1

14:3

But I believe if vendor can do impact test and pass the energy value, normalization is not required and will save cost.So, is there any problem to specify " SA-516-70 impact tested " in lieu of "SA-516-70N" ? I did see it was done thisway by some people.

jamesl (Mechanical) 2Ju1

16:1

If you don't care if the plates are normalized, it is better to specify SA-516 only. Vendor can choose to buy as rolled

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2/5

plates with impact test or normalized plates to get away with impact test, whichever is more convenient andeconomical.

jtseng123(Mechanical) (OP) 2Ju1

16:5

jamesl,Sounds good to me. Thanks.

metengr (Materials) 2Ju1

21:0

If you read SA 516, like I mentioned earlier, as-rolled plates will be provided for 1.5" and under with no impact test.For plates over 1.5" you have no choice, the plates shall be furnished normalized.

Impact test? This is a supplemental requirement, S.5, that YOU need to provide to the supplier. What are you going toaccept? Look at 5.3 below

5.3 When notch-toughness tests are required on plates112 in. [40 mm] and under in thickness, the plates shall benormalized unless otherwise specified by the purchaser.

jtseng123(Mechanical) (OP) 2Ju

19:5

metengr,that means I have to specify normalized material regardless, even I only need 3/4" thick plate. If that is the case,many of our past practices of specifing "SA-516-70 impact tested" were incorrect.

stanweld (Materials) 2Ju1

12:1

For 3/4" plate, it will be up to the manufacturer to normalize the plate in order to meet the impact requirementsspecified in your purchase order when you also specify as-rolled product. Otherwise, whenever you ordered "impacttested", your plate was normalized.

curtis2004 (Mechanical) 3Ju1

12:5
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3/5

Dear Friends,

Correct me if I'm wrong.UCS-66 determines when impact test is required for CS vessels based on materials, thicknesand MDMT. If material thickness at certain MDMT falls below a curve, then for materials listed for this curve impacttesting is not mandatory (or required).If it falls above curve, then you need either to have this material impact tested at MDMT temperature, or consideranother material which may be suitable for service without impact testing requirement.Now, how about PWHT plays into all this? If material is normalized, does it also need to be post weld heat treated inorder to qualify for impact testing exemption?

Does welding procedures has to be pre-qualified for certain temperature MDMT?By the way, what is more economical: heat treatment or impact testing?

Thanks in advance for clarification.Curtis


16:4

Curtis2004,Impact testing may be invoked by the end user, his Engineer, ASME B31.3, ASME VIII or other national/internationalstandards. Under ASME VIII, the SA-516 plate heat treatment may well require additional post weld heat treatments.

A new WPS may not be required to be qualified on the production materials however, production plate weld impacttesting may be required per UG-84.

SnTMan (Mechanical) 3Ju1

17:4

curtis2004, UCS-68 allows a 30 deg F reduction if PWHT is performed when not otherwise required by Code.The pervious state of the material, i.e. normalized or not, has no bearing.

Code does not state that normalized materails shall be PWHT, that is governed by UCS-56 and various other sectionsrelated to service, etc.

Impact qualified weld procedures are needed below certain temperatures per UCS-67.

Regards,

Mike


19:1

Hi all,

Let's review the following example:
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4/5

1. Pressure vessel built to ASME BPVC Section VIII, Div.12. Design pressure: 150 psig MDMT -55F3. Material used: Shell - SA-516 Gr.70 Normalized 3/8" thick plate Heads 2:1 Elliptical SA-516 Gr.70 Normalized 3/8"thick plate4. Neither PWHT nor Impact testing is specified by customer.

If we assume that this vessel should only comply to Section VIII, Div.1:Q1. Is this material impact test exempt or not? Why?Q2. Is PWHT required? Why?

Q3. Vendor has welding procedures qualified for -40F. Can he use it without re-qualification or not?

Thank you all,Curtis


9:2

Since you have not indicated any exemptions per UCS-66 based on the design.Q1. The material is exempt from impact testing per Fig UCS-66 and Note 4 thereof.Q2. PWHT is not required per UCS-56 unless in Lethal Service per U-2.Q3. WPS must be additionally impact test qualified at -55F on P No.1 Group 2 material unless the filler metalmanufacturer has classified it by impact testing per the applicable SFA specification at a temperature not warmer thanthe MDMT per UCS-67 (a)(3).

SnTMan (Mechanical) 3Ju1

9:4

curtis2004,

Q1, exempt, Curve D materialQ2, no, not required by UCS-56, unless required by service (UW-2), or by other Code rules.Q3, Unqualified procedures may be used in some cases, see UCS-67(a)(3). In this case the vendor procedure may beused as is. Otherwise, weld procedure needs to be qualified for -55 F, unless 15 F reduction can be obtained by UCS-66.

Regards,

Mike


10:0

Great!We've got consensus on two out of three questions.On Q3 both answers seems logical. However, temperature reduction obtained from UCS-66, does it take intoconsideration only material of vessel, or filler material? I think in order to qualify for temperature reduction filler
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5/5

material and WPS also should qualify. This is my subjective opinion. What are your thoughts, gentlemen?

Thank you,Curtis

SnTMan (Mechanical) 3Ju

113:1

Not necessarily, the consumable(s) only may be qualified by their manufacturer, see UCS-67(a)(3).

Regards,

Mike

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impact tested or normalized - boiler and pressure vessel engineering - eng-tips

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