freedom camping in vehicles bylaw regional … · 2511anthea hatfield regional 1 253 2513lynne...

FREEDOM CAMPING IN VEHICLES BYLAW

REGIONAL SUBMISSIONS VOLUME 1 9 TO 2696

Submission# First Name Surname Local Board Volume Page9 Brian Ellis Regional 1 1

48 David Francis Regional 1 450 Henry Stonex Regional 1 776 Barry Jones Regional 1 1093 Ben Pringle Regional 1 13

118 Lynne Haines Regional 1 17129 Christine Peters Regional 1 20211 Brent Little Regional 1 26229 martin andrews Regional 1 29234 Tim Flack Regional 1 32251 Ray Not supplied Regional 1 35351 Pamela Whaley Regional 1 39353 Jackie Cheney Regional 1 42364 Ross Johnson Regional 1 45376 Anonymous Anonymous Regional 1 48380 Maureen Harley Regional 1 55382 Patricia Hannam Regional 1 56384 Fiona Engles Regional 1 57392 Dave Smith Regional 1 65431 Julie Cooper Regional 1 68442 Michael and Miriam Hall Regional 1 71449 Sandra Watson Regional 1 77451 Keith Mason Regional 1 80503 Chris Nuttall Regional 1 83560 Bernie McDougall Regional 1 86561 Sonny Whitney Regional 1 89579 Lyn Brittain Regional 1 92580 Ian Mailman Regional 1 103581 Richard Williams Regional 1 106587 Rolf Mueller‐Glodde Regional 1 109608 Juanita Crosland Regional 1 119610 Sheila Simpson Regional 1 122755 Kristof Hongsermeier Regional 1 125780 Denis Bradley Regional 1 129812 Margaret Cartwright Regional 1 132865 Michelle Cartwright Regional 1 138874 Bruce Waldock Regional 1 143877 Andrew Pearce Regional 1 146888 Carlene Mabey Regional 1 149

1001 Puja Kashyap Regional 1 1521128 Pam Williams Regional 1 1551161 erica pollard Regional 1 1581185 Jacque Kennedy Regional 1 1611318 Jim and Marcy McLay Regional 1 1641408 Don Lovett Regional 1 1671451 Hilary St Clare Regional 1 1711456 Shona Williams Regional 1 176

1580 Duncan Thomas Regional 1 1801581 Don Hewison Regional 1 1831652 Sally Schnauer Regional 1 1861700 Lewis Loizou Regional 1 1901727 David Clark Regional 1 1942359 Amanda Hopkins Regional 1 1992369 Bronwen Haley Regional 1 2002371 Douglas Armstrong Regional 1 2012373 Christine Meyer Regional 1 2022377 David Meys Regional 1 2032379 Angela Fulljames Regional 1 2042380 Jo Roby Regional 1 2052381 Ed Kelly Regional 1 2062383 Evie Mahoney Regional 1 2072385 Karen Gordon Regional 1 2082395 Harry and Glenys Kynman Regional 1 2092396 Helen Johnson Regional 1 2102402 John Melville Regional 1 2112405 Kate Saunders Regional 1 2122408 Laraine Hand Regional 1 2132419 Penny Hagen Regional 1 2142422 Helena Ashcroft Regional 1 2212427 Samantha Williams Regional 1 2272436 Adam Wooler Regional 1 2282442 John O'Grady Regional 1 2292443 Amanda Garland Regional 1 2322453 Anna Cruse Regional 1 2332455 Lindsay Subritzky Regional 1 2392456 Andrew Brookland Regional 1 2402460 Kath Gabriel Regional 1 2412468 Amanda Rubick Regional 1 2422475 Chris Wargent Regional 1 2432486 J Brewis Regional 1 2452491 Henry van der Heijden Regional 1 2462492 Jeanette Meehan Regional 1 2472494 Lynn Mellsopp Regional 1 2482497 David and Barbara Edwards Regional 1 2502511 Anthea Hatfield Regional 1 2532513 Lynne Smallbone Regional 1 2542530 Carol Scott Regional 1 2582531 Owen Goodwin Regional 1 2612532 Rachel Thompson Regional 1 2622534 Jennifer Haliday Regional 1 2632537 Jeremy MacDonnell Regional 1 2652549 Pamela Fogerty Regional 1 2662551 Frits Visser Regional 1 2672553 Steve Fogerty Regional 1 2682554 Pat Shepherd Regional 1 269

2555 David Burt Regional 1 2702558 Ray & Jocelyn Watkins Regional 1 2812562 Rhys Morgan Regional 1 2832567 Irene Herbert Regional 1 2842573 Bob Brennan Regional 1 2852576 Stella Brennan Regional 1 2862583 Kim Honeyfield Regional 1 2882585 Pam & Ted Bosch Regional 1 2902587 Lucas Hopper Regional 1 2982590 Sofia Hopper Regional 1 2992592 Thomas Hopper Regional 1 3002593 Grant Goldsack Regional 1 3012598 Alec Hildreth Regional 1 3022600 Anna Macnaught Regional 1 3032602 William Daniels Regional 1 3042605 Tony Hughes Regional 1 3052606 Richard Butler Regional 1 3072608 John Hagen Regional 1 3092609 Barry McNutt Regional 1 3102610 Blair Stewart Regional 1 3112612 David Braine Regional 1 3122613 Eugene O'Sullivan Regional 1 3132616 Gay and Ian McGovern Regional 1 3142617 Hilly Wilson Regional 1 3152618 Karen Browne Regional 1 3162622 Larissa Wade Regional 1 3182625 Jeremy Ashcroft Regional 1 3192626 Michael Gray Regional 1 3252627 Paul Greybe Regional 1 3262628 Shirley Wills Regional 1 3272630 Travis Clayton Regional 1 3282631 Truus Tinsel Regional 1 3292633 Pauline Rundle Regional 1 3302634 Joanne Wright Regional 1 3322641 Jo Cowie Regional 1 3332644 John Fryer Regional 1 3372647 Laurie Broome Regional 1 3392649 Nicole Patterson Regional 1 3402653 Mary Parkison Regional 1 3412656 Sara Sadd Regional 1 3422660 Michael Jordan Regional 1 3432661 Stephen Wong Regional 1 3442662 Simon Young Regional 1 3472663 Ross Payn Regional 1 3482664 Steven Hyde Regional 1 3492670 Warwick Jones Regional 1 3502696 Mike Pearce Regional 1 352

#9

All personal information that you provide in this submission will be held and protected by Auckland Council in accordance with our privacy policy (available at aucklandcouncil.govt.nz/privacy and at our libraries and service centres) and with the Privacy Act 1993. Our privacy policy explains how we may use and share your personal information in relation to any interaction you have with the council, and how you can access and correct that information. We recommend you familiarise yourself with this policy.

2 Have your say on the proposed Freedom Camping in Vehicles Bylaw Feedback opens 3 December 2018 and closes 18 February 2019

Your contact details

Your name and feedback will be publicly available in Auckland Council reports and online. All other personal details will remain private.

Name: Brian Ellis

Is your feedback on behalf of an organisation? No

Name of organisation:

Your local board: Outside Auckland

Have your say on the proposed Freedom Camping in Vehicles Bylaw Proposal 1 Replace legacy bylaw provisions about camping in public places with a new bylaw under the Freedom Camping Act 2011

Reason Current bylaw provisions generally ban freedom camping except in designated areas but do not give us the power to issue fines if someone breaks the rules. Developing a new bylaw under the Freedom Camping Act 2011 will allow us to manage freedom camping in Auckland more proactively and give our enforcement officer the power to issue $200 fines.

What is your opinion on this proposal? Agree

Please tell us why: I generally support the proposal that allows better management of freedom camping, including the distinction between certified self contained vehicles and non‐CSC.

Proposal 2 Increase the number of areas where people can freedom camp in Auckland (with restrictions) to help manage demand and minimise the negative impacts of freedom camping.

Reason The Freedom Camping Act generally allows freedom camping and limits our ability to prohibit it. Our research found a shortage of places where freedom campers can go in Auckland, causing over‐crowding in places where it is allowed, or illegal camping at popular places.

The draft bylaw aims to minimise the negative impacts from campers on the community and environment by providing more places for freedom campers to go, with restrictions on the:

number of camping vehicles that can stay at a designated site

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type of vehicle and how long they can stay


Please tell us why: Having a high concentration of freedom campers in a small area causes multiple issues ‐ overcrowding, vehicles too close to each other, and damages the reputation of responsible freedom campers.

Proposal 3 Restrict freedom camping to certified self‐contained vehicles only in areas that are not near 24‐hour public toilets.

Reason We want to ensure that all freedom campers have access to a toilet, either onboard their vehicles or at a public toilet that is open 24‐hours. This will minimise the negative impacts from campers on the community and environment.

Note: For a vehicle to camp in a restricted certified self‐contained only area it must meet the NZ Self Containment Standard and display the correct certification.

The standard sets minimum requirements for vehicles including a toilet, fresh water storage, wastewater storage and a rubbish bin.


Please tell us why: I strongly agree with this. Areas that do not have adequate public toilets should not be available to non‐CSC campers, as they do not have anywhere suitable for non self contained people to responsibly dispose of their waste.

Proposal 4 Campers cannot stay in restricted freedom camping areas for more than two nights.

Reason A maximum night stay will:

ensure turnover at restricted freedom camping areas minimise conflict with other users encourage responsible camping.

Our research also found campers typically do not stay at one location for more than two nights.

What is your opinion on this proposal? Agree, max 2 nights

Please tell us why: I think no more than two nights in one location is reasonable. Campgrounds are available for longer stays.

Proposal 5 Freedom camping vehicles staying in areas that have high daytime use must leave by 9am.

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Reason Some parking areas have overnight parking capacity but have high use during the day. Allowing freedom camping vehicles to remain throughout the day will create conflict with other regular users.

The proposal suggests leaving by 9am to give campers the opportunity to visit local cafes or shops and prepare to leave.

What is your opinion on this proposal? Agree, with 9am

Please tell us why: It appears to be a reasonable compromise to make overnight parking available in areas that are otherwise unused. It's equally reasonable to require campers to move on when the space is required again.

Do you have any other feedback on the draft Freedom Camping in Vehicles Bylaw? For example:

general feedback on the proposal any council managed areas that are not included in the maps provided, which you think should be

included in the bylaw (provide the name and address of the area and why you think it should be included).

Other Feedback: One of the biggest issues with freedom camping sites provided by local councils is that they create a serious fire safety issue by requiring vehicles to park very close to each other. I strongly support the NZMCA recommended 3m distance between vehicles. This could be enforced by clearly painted no parking zones between parks, or via a maximum number of vehicles in each area.

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Name: David Francis



Your local board: I don't know my local board

Have your say on the proposed Freedom Camping in Vehicles Bylaw Proposal 1 Replace legacy bylaw provisions about camping in public places with a new bylaw under the Freedom Camping Act 2011 Reason Current bylaw provisions generally ban freedom camping except in designated areas but do not give us the power to issue fines if someone breaks the rules. Developing a new bylaw under the Freedom Camping Act 2011 will allow us to manage freedom camping in Auckland more proactively and give our enforcement officer the power to issue $200 fines. What is your opinion on this proposal? Agree

Please tell us why:

Proposal 2 Increase the number of areas where people can freedom camp in Auckland (with restrictions) to help manage demand and minimise the negative impacts of freedom camping. Reason The Freedom Camping Act generally allows freedom camping and limits our ability to prohibit it. Our research found a shortage of places where freedom campers can go in Auckland, causing over‐crowding in places where it is allowed, or illegal camping at popular places.


number of camping vehicles that can stay at a designated site type of vehicle and how long they can stay

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Please tell us why: Freedom Camping vehicles need bigger spaces than normal car parks. It is dangerous to park vehicles so close that getting in and out of them is a problem, and LPG is dangerous. NZMCA enforces a minimum of 3 metres between vehicles because of this.






Please tell us why: Certified Self Contained vehicles do not need facilities provided at all. They just need FLAT ground and reasonable space allocation. Most councils think it is a great idea to simply use normal car park spaces. This is downright dangerous. Gas bottles are dangerous, as is not being able to open doors because the next vehicle is too close.






Please tell us why:


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What is your opinion on this proposal? Disagree, other

Please tell us why: Squeezing Motorhomes into carparks is a very dangerous practice. You are not just catering for backpackers in modified people movers and tradie vans. You need to make sure you allow for all types of vehicles.




Other Feedback: Refer my comments re vehicle size, car park size, proximity of vehicles and FLAT areas.

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Name: Henry Stonex




Have your say on the proposed Freedom Camping in Vehicles Bylaw Proposal 1 Replace legacy bylaw provisions about camping in public places with a new bylaw under the Freedom Camping Act 2011 Reason Current bylaw provisions generally ban freedom camping except in designated areas but do not give us the power to issue fines if someone breaks the rules. Developing a new bylaw under the Freedom Camping Act 2011 will allow us to manage freedom camping in Auckland more proactively and give our enforcement officer the power to issue $200 fines. What is your opinion on this proposal? Disagree

Please tell us why: I don't want officers to fine people like they did in Coromandel and create a bad image for the Auckland council. Many campervan owners like myself act responsibly and all I want is somewhere that allows me to use my van in the manner I have always done. In fact, I most times pick up junk from normal people who sling stuff about like they own the place. That irks me more than anything else. I certainly donâ€™t what a revenue stream for Auckland council to be an end game.


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Please tell us why: Yes more places and at nice sites away from the crowds.






Please tell us why: Yes I am self contained for my van.





What is your opinion on this proposal? Disagree, allow more than 2 nights

Please tell us why: It should be 3 nights at least as there are very interesting places in Auckland to visit.

Say 4 nights maximum.


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Please tell us why: Resrictions like this are impracticable as one often wants to hang out for a few days to recooperate and then move on.




Other Feedback: Ring me and talk to me on the phone would be smart. Henry 021 126 7576

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Name: Barry Jones





Please tell us why: While I agree you need to restrict freedom camping you also need to cater for the increasing number of overseas visitors. Restrict freedom camping to self‐contained vehicles in areas without toilet facilities. Develop more areas with toilets for our tourists. These areas could include a shower just cold water would do or with a connection to a solar panel. Insist on a 3‐metre gap between vehicles staying overnight. A simple pamphlet given out to tourists promoting the rules like use toilets, not the bushes,don't litter, park reasponsible{the 3‐metre rule} You also need to have more rubbish bins before and after townships so those travelling can be tidy Kiwi,s . We enjoy visiting Auckland and often come up for a few days. Look forward to seeing you start looking after our visitors. Barry and Mary Jones 1 Duart Road Havelock North. 0272490507.

Proposal 2 Increase the number of areas where people can freedom camp in Auckland (with restrictions) to help manage demand and minimise the negative impacts of freedom camping. Reason The Freedom Camping Act generally allows freedom camping and limits our ability to prohibit it. Our research

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found a shortage of places where freedom campers can go in Auckland, causing over‐crowding in places where it is allowed, or illegal camping at popular places.




Please tell us why: Some freeloaders are spoiling the genuine visitors by overstaying in some areas, poor parking.ie caravaners taking two spaces instead of in front of their van where space to park in front is there. Restricting the numbers will mean we don't wake up with a van too close to open the door of our campervan. I can supply a photo of that happening.






Please tell us why: There are many vans with self‐containment stickers that do not meet this requirement. These rental vehicles also have a clause in their rental agreement that if they don't use the portable toilet the get a rebate. While I know the rental companies will deny this it is happening. Also we New Zealanders need to be stricter on the handing out of self‐containment stickers.





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Please tell us why: I think two nights is a bit tough but I think three nights is a better number. All self containment should be able to be met for three nights.





Please tell us why: That would be in the high parking pressure areas.




Other Feedback: When you see the list there is plenty of parking. A copy of those areas at I. sites would be useful.

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Name: Ben Pringle





Please tell us why: sick of there mess




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What is your opinion on this proposal? Disagree

Please tell us why:






Please tell us why:





What is your opinion on this proposal? Disagree, allow less than 2 nights

Please tell us why:




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What is your opinion on this proposal? Disagree, it should be 8am

Please tell us why:




Other Feedback:

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Freedom Camping in Vehicles Bylaw Site Specific Feedback

Submitter Name: Ben Pringle

Site Name: William Fraser Reserve Restriction Type: Restricted area (non‐self‐contained permitted)

Site ID: 269 Ward: Rodney Local Board: Rodney

Do you agree that freedom camping should be restricted to only certified self‐contained vehicles in this area?

Not applicable

Do you agree that freedom camping in all types of vehicles should be allowed in this area?

No, only allow certified self‐contained vehicles

Do you agree that all freedom camping should be prohibited in this area?

Not applicable

How many campers do you think would be appropriate in this area at any one time?

3 ‐ 4

How long do you think campers should be allowed to stay in this area?

Max 1 night per 4 weeks

How often is the location currently being used for freedom camping?

Often

How often is the parking area currently used?

It's occasionally full

Are there any special features in this area which need protecting?

Yes, sensitive environmental features

Are there any health and safety risks for users of this area if freedom camping were to occur?

I don't know of any possible risks

Do you have any other comments about this area?

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Name: Lynne Haines





Please tell us why: When fines are known to be issued social media highlights that freedom camping designated areas are monitored TO ABIDE BY THE RULES




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Please tell us why: This way there is no confussion

PLEASE when stating number and length of vehicles Please take into account some vehicle lengths are over 10mtrs and have pip out so can be wide NZMCA could assist you marking out designated area per vehicle regarding the bigger buses 5th wheelers






Please tell us why: Self containment vehicles only

this will encourage other campers to use motorcamp. Or spend the money to upgrade their current vehicle






Please tell us why: Depending on what's happening in the area more than two days can encourage more spending

Especially allowing for arrival after 4 on first day

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What is your opinion on this proposal? Disagree, it should be 10am

Please tell us why: Remember people are on holiday

If in a workers car park the time of departure would have to be before 8 in the busy cities




Other Feedback: From what I can see on nzmca app there are only 3 dump stations Te atatu westhaven albany Suggest on the North shore Devonport browns bay

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Name: Christine Peters





Please tell us why: We travel in a i.4 metre campervan to visit family in Auckland and help care for elderly relative. We regularly need to find somewhere to park our self contained Van. We also have a well behaved miniature collie, so cant stay in camping grounds.

We are NZMCA members.


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Please tell us why: We travel alot around N.Z and find that young tourists spoil it for everyone by not following the bylaws.

We would like to see introduced a small fee for parking like in Europe, where each town has designated SC vehicles, they take your registration and passport number and u pay â‚¬5 to stay and â‚¬10 for power and toilets. Brillant as folk stay and spend money. They also have recycling and rubbish Bins.






Please tell us why: As we have experienced even in designated areas the tourists want to be by views, and will not walk even a short distance to toilets, but will defaecate and pee in trees and bushes.

We also object the vehicles that have ljmjted kigchen so that they wash their dkshes in the pubkuc toilets. Just so disgusting.





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Please tell us why: There are two distinct groups of travellers. Tourist and then the growing number of grey and not so grey nomads. Some permanently living in their campervans and caravans. Most are either members of NZMCA, OR FRIENDS OF MOTORHOMING.

The majority of us are respectful, careful self contained vehicles and people who abide my the clubs rules and regulations. Tourist should get a discojnt care to stay in city camping grounds. Or there needs to be laws stopping folk converting SVUs and vans tobecome travelling living accomodation.





Please tell us why: Its not fair to stay where businesses may experience a negative impact.




Other Feedback: Strict conditions on type of vehicles allowed. Monitor the sites daily usually in the later afternoon. Clear msrkings for parking to stop over crowding, which increases the risks for safety. Clearly state the rules on the signs including distance between vehicles. Provide large rubbish bins. Outside cold taps if their are toilets. Like other councils folk can only stay if they have purchased a council permit diplayed on the inside of the vehicle drivers window, which states dates of stay in auckland area. Fees cover rubbish collection and monitorring. Can get permit online.

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Submitter Name: Christine Peters

Site Name: Eastern Beach Caravan Park Restriction Type: Restricted area (certified self‐contained only)

Site ID: 479 Ward: Howick Local Board: Howick


Yes, allow certified self‐contained vehicles only


Not applicable


Not applicable


7 ‐ 8


Max 3 nights per 4 weeks


I don't know


I don't know


I don't know of any special features


No response


We were under the impression that no kne was to use these psrks at present. This and all the other areas are very important not only for tourists but for the increasing nomadic kiwi populatikn.

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Site Name: Otuataua Stonefields Reserves Restriction Type: Prohibited area

Site ID: 556 Ward: Manukau Local Board: Māngere‐Ōtāhuhu


Not applicable


Not applicable


No, allow certified self‐contained vehicles


Not applicable


Not applicable


I don't know


I don't know


Yes, sensitive environmental features


I don't know of any possible risks


We need places near the airport for tourists and other travellers. Dogs kn leads woukd be good.

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Site Name: Lloyd Elsmore Park (Bells Field area) Restriction Type:

Restricted area (certified self‐contained only)

Site ID: 481 Ward: Howick Local Board: Howick


Yes, allow certified self‐contained vehicles only


Not applicable


Not applicable


5 ‐ 6


Max 3 nights per 4 weeks


Not being used


I don't know


Yes, other important features


No response


None of the freedom sites are being used as currently legal. We would use the site alot with dog on a lead please

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Name: Brent Little





Please tell us why: This allows another step towards a consistent approach throughout the country.

By doing so it takes concern, questions and stress away from those choosing to freedom camp.



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Please tell us why: Although I agree with this huge improvement in would still question the validity of your decision to prohibit so many areas. The Act only allows you to prohibit or restrict freedom camping bases on 3 criteria. I doubt that this criteria has been used for all of the huge number of prohibited areas.






Please tell us why: Agee very strongly with this. In fact this should be the rule. No other rule required. In other words if you are self contained you can freedom camp anywhere ‐ more than 100 meters from public toilets. Freedom camping with out self contained should then be limited to within 100 meters of public toilets.






Please tell us why: This is typically acceptable in city areas. However in rural / beach settings this should be longer.


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Please tell us why: This rule makes no sense in practice as a blanket rule.

It should be case by case in high demand areas. It is also very confusing if yiu want to stay 2 nights, you in theory must move during the day. Crazy, as during the day, you are in fact the day tripper the space is being vacated for.




Other Feedback:

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Name: martin andrews





Please tell us why: They should be able to enforce this out side designated areas where there is no campsite option.




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Please tell us why: They need to be limited SO TO NOT IMPACT ON TH AREAS THAT ARE DESIGNATED.






Please tell us why:






Please tell us why:



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Please tell us why:




Other Feedback: Council should create specific built freedom sites within city limits.

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Name: Tim Flack




Have your say on the proposed Freedom Camping in Vehicles Bylaw Proposal 1 Replace legacy bylaw provisions about camping in public places with a new bylaw under the Freedom Camping Act 2011 Reason Current bylaw provisions generally ban freedom camping except in designated areas but do not give us the power to issue fines if someone breaks the rules. Developing a new bylaw under the Freedom Camping Act 2011 will allow us to manage freedom camping in Auckland more proactively and give our enforcement officer the power to issue $200 fines. What is your opinion on this proposal? Disagree

Please tell us why: This provision seems to be geared to enable fines for the freedom campers. What is a freedom camper where is this term defined. It seems to me that the Council is missing what the people clearly are looking for; an overnight stop over somewhere out of the way near shops and facilities. If the vehicle used for the overnight stop is fully compliant with the self containment rules as per the Motor caravan Association then it matters little to the environment where these ones stop. It is the people who are sleeping in cars or non self contained vehicles which need controls and must be permitted to stay near public toilets and many of the public facilities need to be upgraded to include showers and toilets and even coin operated hoe showers etc. User to pay.

Proposal 2 Increase the number of areas where people can freedom camp in Auckland (with restrictions) to help manage demand and minimise the negative impacts of freedom camping. Reason The Freedom Camping Act generally allows freedom camping and limits our ability to prohibit it. Our research

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found a shortage of places where freedom campers can go in Auckland, causing over‐crowding in places where it is allowed, or illegal camping at popular places.




Please tell us why: With planning the self contained vehicles can park any where it is safe but the non compliant vehicles must be offered a safe and environmentally clean and sustainable over night stopping place with recognition that vehicles need clear distances between them for fire safety (both self contained and the others). The demand for these overnight stops is reflected in how desirable the location is and where it is in relation to tourist interests.






Please tell us why: Self containment in motor camper vehicles can mean a lot of things. Use the NZMCA standard and proposal 3 is fine . Use any lesser standard then Washing and toilet facilities large enough and sophisticated enough to accommodate the numbers wanting to use them. This is a rapid growth industry and for both types of vehicles there needs to be sufficient parking places. Remember the need for firfe seperation etc.




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All personal information that you provide in this submission will be held and protected by Auckland Council in accordance with our privacy policy (available at aucklandcouncil.govt.nz/privacy and at our libraries and service centres) and with the Privacy Act 1993

freedom camping in vehicles bylaw regional … · 2511anthea hatfield regional 1 253 2513lynne...

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