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Form-Agenda

7 61(2020Web/Secretariat)123

®

61(2020Web/Secretariat)123

December 2020

INTERNATIONAL ELECTROTECHNICAL COMMISSION

TECHNICAL COMMITTEE NO.61: SAFETY OF HOUSEHOLD AND SIMILAR ELECTRICAL APPLIANCES

Daily Report Compilation for TC 61 Web Meetings

ZOOM MEETING SCHEDULE

Meeting Time Zone

Date in meeting time zone

Central European Time (CEST/CET)

China Standard Time (CST)

Pacific Time (PDT/PST)

New Zealand Time (NZST/NZDT)

Tuesday, 8 September*

08:00 – 12:00 (CEST)

Thursday, 10 September

08:00 – 12:00

Tuesday, 15 September

08:00 – 12:00 (PDT)


08:00 – 12:00 (NZST)


08:00 – 12:00


08:00 – 12:00 (PDT)


08:00 – 12:00 (NZDT)

Tuesday, 13 October

08:00 – 12:00 (CEST)

Thursday, 15 October

08:00 – 12:00

Tuesday, 20 October

08:00 – 12:00 (NZDT)


08:00 – 12:00 (PDT)

Tuesday, 27 October

08:00 – 12:00 (CET)

Tuesday, 10 November

08:00-12:00 (PST)

Thursday, 12 November

08:00 – 12:00 (NZDT)


08:00 – 12:00 (CET)

Monday, 23 November

08:00-12:00 (PST)

Friday, 4 December

08:00 – 12:00 (NZDT)

Thursday, 10 December

08:00 – 12:00

--------------------

Attendees of TC61 Web Meetings

Fabio

GARGANTINI

ITALY (CHAIR)

Dejun

MA

CHINA (VICE CHAIR)

Randi

MYERS

UNITED STATES (SECRETARY)

Grace

Roh

UNITED STATES (ASSISTANT SECRETARY)

Christophe

BOYER

IEC CENTRAL OFFICE (TECHNICAL OFFICER)

Attendees

The participants listed in the table below indicates participation in at least one of the TC 61 web meetings.

Please refer to the daily report to find the attendance for each specific web meeting.

NC/ organization

Last name

First name

Role[footnoteRef:1] [1: For example: Chair, Secretary, Technical Officer, Head of delegation, Delegate, Guest, Observer]

AU

Booth*

Geoffrey

Head of Delegation

AU

Murdoch

Adam

Delegate

BE

Meier

Matthias

Delegate

BE

Vankerkhove

Philippe

Delegate

CA

Brière

David

Delegate

CA

Martin*

Ken

Head of Delegation

CN

Bi

Chongqiang

Delegate

CN

Chen

Dongpo

Delegate

CN

Chen

Cankun

Delegate

CN

Chen

Jian

Delegate

CN

Chen

Huafang

Delegate

CN

Feng

Caiyun

Delegate

CN

Feng

Longbiao

Delegate

CN

Gai

Qigao

Delegate

CN

Gao

Jiajia

Delegate

CN

Hao

Dapeng

Delegate

CN

Huang

Lei

Delegate

CN

Huang

Wenxiu

Delegate

CN

Jian

Pengfei

Delegate

CN

Li

Shanshan

Delegate

CN

Liu

Xu

Delegate

CN

Liu

Zhenquan

Delegate

CN

Mao

Lili

Delegate

CN

Miao

Shuai

Delegate

CN

Sheng

Ri

Delegate

CN

Shi

Yanling

Delegate

CN

Sun

Guozhen

Delegate

CN

Wan

Xuelong

Delegate

CN

Wang

Kun

Delegate

CN

Wang

Jing

Delegate

CN

Wang

Binhou

Delegate

CN

Wu*

Meng

Head of Delegation

CN

Xiong

Haoping

Delegate

CN

Xu

Yi

Delegate

CN

Xu

Fang

Delegate

CN

Yang

Ying

Delegate

CN

Yang

Xingguo

Delegate

CN

Yuan

Wangtan

Delegate

CN

Zeng

Jian

Delegate

CN

Zhang

Ge

Delegate

CN

Zheng

Wenwei

Delegate

CN

Zhou

Yanwu

Delegate

DK

Amundesen

Helen

Delegate

DK

Bruus-Jensen

Jørgen

Delegate

DK

Christensen

Hans Schou

Observer

DK

Dalgas-Madsen

Per

Delegate

DK

Krzywkowski

Anders

Delegate

DK

Nielsen

Henning

Delegate

DK

Tychsen*

Jørn

Head of Delegation

FI

Mattinen*

Reijo

Head of Delegation

FI

Söderblom

Kurt

Delegate

FR

Boileau*

Yohann

Head of Delegation

FR

Bottollier

Stéphane

Delegate

FR

Cheynel

Vincent

Delegate

FR

Margas

Jacques

Delegate

FR

Thierry

Julien

Delegate

DE

Baur

Ralf

Delegate

DE

Dreyer

Markus

Delegate

DE

Freier

Heinz H.

Delegate

DE

Kaim

Leo

Delegate

DE

Landgräber

Josef

Delegate

DE

Mayle*

Andreas

Head of Delegation

DE

Perroni

Dario

Delegate

DE

Pohl

Klaus-Dieter

Delegate

DE

Reiter

Bruno

Delegate

DE

Richarz

Frank

Delegate

DE

Seiffert

Edmund

Delegate

GH

Appiah

Adelaide

Delegate

GH

Eklemet

Ebenezer Afari

Delegate

IR

Kamelzadeh*

Mehdi

Head of Delegation

IR

Sharifi

Hamid

Delegate

IE

Betz

Martin

Delegate

IT

Aloisi

Alberto

Delegate

IT

Cecchinato*

Gianluca

Head of Delegation

IT

Maman

Marco

Delegate

IT

Monguzzi

Pierluca

Delegate

IT

Orlandi

Maurizio

Delegate

IT

Reina

Luca

Delegate

IT

Sinatra

Fabio

Delegate

IT

Spinelli

Gabrio

Delegate

IT

Stella

Salvo

Delegate

IT

Togni

Silvia

Delegate

IT

Vit

Stefano

Delegate

IT

Zanichelli

Ursula

Delegate

JP

Abe

Shuji

Delegate

JP

Harashima

Keisuke

Delegate

JP

Ikeno

Tomoaki

Delegate

JP

Kodama

Masachika

Delegate

JP

Maekawa

Yasunori

Delegate

JP

Oura

Koichi

Delegate

JP

Sasaki

Akitsugu

Delegate

JP

Sato*

Masahiro

Head of Delegation

JP

Suzuki

Yusuke

Delegate

JP

Tanabe

Masatada

Delegate

JP

Ueda

Kazuhiro

Delegate

JP

Ujita

Ryota

Delegate

KR

Choi

Hyunho

Delegate

KR

Hong

Junil

Delegate

KR

Kim

Sung Kwan

Delegate

KR

Lee

Siock

Delegate

KR

Nam*

Sihyun

Head of Delegation

MY

Chin Hui

Chia

Delegate

MY

Soon Ann

Ng

Delegate

MX

Aquino Díaz

Daniel

Delegate

MX

Fabián Vázquez

Juan Israel

Delegate

MX

García Cortés

Mariana

Delegate

MX

Rosales Salazar*

Juan Manuel

Head of Delegation

MX

Sandoval Carreño

Omar Alejandro

Delegate

MX

Vega Alcántara

Aliscair

Delegate

NL

Van Aalderen*

Dinand

Head of Delegation

NL

Van Zanten

Thijs

Delegate

NZ

Johns*

Derek

Head of Delegation

NO

Oynes

Tor

Delegate

NO

Salater

Trond

Delegate

NO

Ulsrud*

Terje

Head of Delegation

PH

Jornales

Daniel Collin

Delegate

PL

Wozny*

Krzysztof

Head of Delegation

PT

Cabral

Paulo

Delegate

SI

Atelsek

Marko

Delegate

SI

Kraner*

Danilo

Head of Delegation

ZA

Kabini

Vusi

Delegate

ZA

Kubeka

Sekwanele

Delegate

ZA

Mabena*

Thabo Isaac

Head of Delegation

ES

Guirado Torres*

Rafael

Head of Delegation

ES

Ondiviela Serrano

Esther

Delegate

SE

Kindblad*

Daniel

Head of Delegation

SE

Mattsson

Leif

Delegate

CH

Bornel

Pascal

Delegate

CH

Dietschi*

Fabian

Head of Delegation

CH

Gromov

Alexey

Delegate

CH

Pastorelli

Sarah

Delegate

CH

Roos

Marcel

Delegate

CH

Russeau

Wanessa

Delegate

CH

Stolz

Eduard

Delegate

TR

Güdücü

Ceren

Delegate

TR

Gürpınar

Cansu

Delegate

TR

Doğan*

Nilay

Head of Delegation

TR

Ilbay

Fatma

Delegate

TR

Kayikci

Bora

Delegate

TR

Özkırım

Hilmi Gürkan

Delegate

TR

Yıldırım

İbrahim Oğuz

Delegate

AE

Intalan

Marco

Delegate

GB

Greenman

Colin

Delegate

GB

Harris

Richard

Delegate

GB

Jones

Nicholas

Delegate

GB

Larkin

Matthew

Delegate

GB

Rustemi

Irma

Delegate

GB

Skinner*

Clem

Head of Delegation

US

Albert

Larry

Delegate

US

Andersen*

Michelle

Head of Delegation

US

Chiang

Flore

Delegate

US

Cooper

Randall

Delegate

US

DeSilvia

Tom

Delegate

US

Grider

Craig

Observer

US

Hon

Charlie

Delegate

US

Horak

Byron

Delegate

US

Hoyer

David

Delegate

US

Williams

Matthew

Delegate

Liaisons

Last name

First name

Role

Chris

Evans

Consumers International

Eckhard

Schwendemann

TC 72 Liaison

Hyodo

Takatsugu

ISO TC 126

Trinkies

Wolfgang

ISO TC 126

--------------------

1. Opening of the meeting and rules for meeting management

61/6094/INF – Participant Guide for TC 61 Web Meetings via Zoom

The Chair Fabio Gargantini opened the meeting at 8:00 Central European Summer Time and welcomed the delegates to the first session of the 2020 Web Meeting series. The series will represent the 101st meeting of TC 61. Everyone was thanked for their attendance and participation in the series of meetings that presently involves fifteen meetings, concluding on 17 November 2020.

The Participant Guide for TC 61 Web Meetings via Zoom, 61/6094/INF was introduced. Mr. Gargantini reviewed key highlights for the delegates from 61/6094/INF including the guidance on the operation of the meeting for how to identify oneself by name and NC, the role of the Head of Delegation, the Raise Hand feature and the approach for conducting voting during the meeting via Doodle Poll. It was clarified that daily reports will be posted according to the schedule outlined in 61/6094/INF and attendees are requested to confirm their attendance in the daily report. As is typically done for physical meetings, a Decision List and Report of Meeting will be circulated according to the established timeframes at the conclusion of the final meeting in the web meeting series.

Mr. Gargantini explained that as there will be only one screen displayed during the meeting, this will be the relevant report or comment compilation. Meeting attendees will need to use their own monitors to view the corresponding DC, CD or CDV.

Attendees were reminded that as announced in 61/6014A/AC circulated on 2020-07-24, during the web meetings we will discuss only the documents for agenda items 3 to 5 and 60 to 72 for which there are technical comments or questions needing a response. We would not plan to discuss editorial comments in general for all documents in the Agenda unless specifically requested by attendees.

Mr. Gargantini also called the delegates attention to 61(2020Web/Chair)7 addressing Code of Conduct for Delegates, patent information, and language to be used for the meeting (English).

--------------------

2. Approval of the agenda 61/5998A/DA

Mr. Gargantini reviewed the schedule of agenda topics and introduced modifications as shown in the table below. The changes are based on expert availability and timing, as well as to allow for a full six weeks for NCs to consider the comments received on 61/6056/CD as circulated in the Compilation of Comments 61/6123/CC on 2020-08-28 (agenda item 33). The Chair will review the schedule based on the development of the discussion and the outcome of the first web meetings and will eventually rearrange in particular as far as discussion of documents planned for 13th October that, considering the number and type of comments received, seems will require more time than is available.

Day






Agenda Items

1-8a, 66

(item 8b returned to MT4)

8c, 9-11

12-17

18-24b

25, 26, 37

Day



Tuesday, 13 October


Tuesday, 20 October

Agenda Items

28-32, 34a, 34b

34c-35a

27a, 27b, 33, 35b, 35c

38b-38c, 39

40

Day


Tuesday, 27 October




Agenda Items

41-45

46-50

51-55a

55b-56

60-65, 67-72

Agenda items 36 and 38a will not be discussed during the meeting because the MT 23 convenor has requested to withdraw these documents and evaluate how the requirements relate to other standards. MT 23 anticipates submitting new proposals in 2021. Agenda items 57 to 59 will not be discussed since the CDV for each was approved and no negative votes were received. The resulting amendment was published in June 2020 for each of the involved standards.

It was agreed that 61(2020Web/JPNC)72 will be introduced under agenda item 8c so that JPNC may explain the document and allow for a short discussion. Since NCs will need time to review and evaluate tabled document 72, further discussion of the document will be arranged for later in the agenda, perhaps in coordination with the report from MT4 which is planned for 17 November 2020.

No additional agenda items were identified.

Proposed Timetable for Series of Web Meetings (17 September 2020 Update)

The Chair mentioned that in the next few weeks, based on an AC that will be circulated on Friday 18 September, a Joint Working Group will be set-up between IEC TC 61 and IEC TC 125 on modifications of IEC 60335-2-114 to include PeTs. To give the JWG the time to evaluate the comments to 61/6077/DC as stated in 61/6116/INF, the agenda item 32 will be discussed on 17 November and item 60 will be discussed on 24 September.

Updated timetable as follows:

Day






Agenda Items

1-8a, 66

8b not discussed, referred back to MT4

8c, 9

10-13, 14 (item 6 in 61/6099/INF)

14 (item 6 in 61/6099/INF), 15-24b

25, 26, 37

Day



Tuesday, 13 October


Tuesday, 20 October

Agenda Items

28-31, 34a, 34b, 60

34c-35a

27a, 27b, 33, 35b,

35c (36 not discussed, withdrawn by MT23)

38b-39

(38a not discussed, withdrawn by MT23)

40

Day


Tuesday, 27 October




Agenda Items

41-45

46-50

51-55a

55b-56(**)

32, 61-65, 67-72

(**) Agenda items 57-59 do not require discussion as noted earlier in the agenda.

Additional Zoom Meetings and Updated Proposed Timetable (Inserted following 22 October 2020 meeting session)

The Chair mentioned that additional Zoom meetings will be needed to complete the discussion of agenda items planned for the web meeting series. Therefore, the Zoom Meeting Schedule and Proposed Timetable for Web Meetings have been updated to include three (3) additional meetings as presented in highlighted text below. The allocation of agenda items for each web meeting session is shown in the Proposed Timetable. Note there are no agenda items allocated for the final meeting session on Thursday, 10 December as this date is for overflow of agenda items; this web meeting session would be cancelled if it is eventually not needed.

ZOOM MEETING SCHEDULE

Meeting Time Zone

Date in meeting time zone

Central European Time (CEST/CET)

China Standard Time (CST)

Pacific Time (PDT/PST)

New Zealand Time (NZST/NZDT)

Tuesday, 8 September*

08:00 – 12:00 (CEST)


08:00 – 12:00


08:00 – 12:00 (PDT)


08:00 – 12:00 (NZST)


08:00 – 12:00


08:00 – 12:00 (PDT)


08:00 – 12:00 (NZDT)

Tuesday, 13 October

08:00 – 12:00 (CEST)


08:00 – 12:00

Tuesday, 20 October

08:00 – 12:00 (NZDT)


08:00 – 12:00 (PDT)

Tuesday, 27 October

08:00 – 12:00 (CET)


08:00-12:00 (PST)


08:00 – 12:00 (NZDT)


08:00 – 12:00 (CET)

Monday, 23 November

08:00-12:00 (PST)

Friday, 4 December

08:00 – 12:00 (NZDT)


08:00 – 12:00

Proposed Timetable for Series of Web Meetings

Day






Agenda Items

1-8a, 66

8b not discussed, referred back to MT4

8c, 9

10,11, 12-13

14 (item 6 in 61/6099/INF) 15-24b

25-26, 37

Day



Tuesday, 13 October


Tuesday, 20 October

Agenda Items

28-30

31, 34a-34b, 34c-35a

27a, 27b,

36 not discussed, withdrawn by MT23

35b, 35c,

38a not discussed, withdrawn by MT23

33, 47, 38b-39a,

Day


Tuesday, 27 October




Agenda Items

39b-40a

40b, 40d

40c, 41, 42, 44, 45, 46, 48, 49, 52-54

43, 50, 51

55-56

Day

Monday, 23 November

Friday, 4 December


Agenda Items

32, 60

From 61 to 72

Available for eventual overflow

(**) Agenda items 57-59 do not require discussion as noted earlier in the agenda.

--------------------

3. Note the confirmation of the minutes of the meeting held in Shanghai, China (61/5948/RM)

Inasmuch as no written comments were received concerning corrections to the Shanghai, China minutes, they were confirmed as written.

--------------------

4. Information from IEC Central Office [61(2020Web/IECCO)03]

Mr. Christophe Boyer, Technical Officer, of the IEC Central Office, provided a report from the IEC Central Office. Included in the report were the following:

· Overview of selected Administrative Circulars since the last meeting of TC 61

· SMB decision AC/16/2020 regarding the minimum announcement time for fully online plenary meetings shortened from 6 months to 8 weeks

· Essential information regarding Zoom virtual meetings and IEC default settings

· Invitation to have as much as possible TC virtual meetings instead of physical meetings

· Highlights on the May 2020 ISO/IEC Directives updates

· Announcement of a new release of the IEC Collaboration Platform on 2020-09-07 and the key updates

· Overview of the IEC Academy webinars and eLearning

· Summary from the 2020-09-08 IEC webinar on the Mapping Platform, which is a generic mapping tool for use by technical and advisory bodies to better frame their activities and enable interested parties to identify the work covered by the group and what is covered by each standard. This can be graphically illustrated for better user experience. Mr. Boyer provided a demonstration of how the Mapping Platform might work for household appliances as an example, where the user could click on a specific appliance in the virtual house displayed and learn about the safety, performance and EMC applicable standards for example. Mr. Boyer invited all to view the webinar and consider how this may be applicable for TC 61 in order to determine the level of interest in exploring further. TC 61 could consider forming a small team to evaluate the mapping platform and determine the information that would be useful to provide in educating and clarifying the activities and standards covered by the committee.

· Upcoming IEC General Meetings – Mr. Boyer clarified that the IEC General Meeting planned for Dubai, United Arab Emirates in 2021 has been proposed by the host committee to be rescheduled to 3 to 7 October 2021. The proposal has been submitted to the IEC Council for approval.

Mr. Boyer thanked the TC 61 attendees for their positive feedback. Mr. Boyer was thanked for his presence at the meeting and for the presentation.

--------------------

5. Reports of the Chair, Secretary, Vice-Chair, ACOS representative, ACEC representative and CTL liaison member5a. Chair’s Report [61(2020Web/Chair)02a]

Mr. Gargantini’s chair’s report included matters arising since the meeting in Shanghai, letters sent after the meeting in Shanghai and the announcement that a Commented Version of IEC 60335-1:6th Edition was released when the new edition was published on 2020-09-02. As no comments were received on the report it was not discussed.

5b. Secretary’s Report – [61(2020Web/Secretariat)02b V3]

Ms. Randi Myers provided the secretary’s report. Highlights included the liaison with ISO TC 299, TC 61 delegates recognized with the IEC 1906 Award in 2020, an updated format for the daily reports in landscape format and upcoming meetings in 2021-2022.

5c. Vice Chair’s Report – [61(2020Web/ViceChair)02c]

Mr. Dejun Ma provided the vice-chair’s report. Updates were provided IEC TC61 WG44, IEC TC 61 AhG50, SyC AAL, ISO TC 299. Regarding the WG44 update, Mr. Gargantini requested clarification regarding the change from IEC 60335-2-117 to IEC 63327 by TC 61/SC61J.

It was clarified with the Secretary of SC 61J that this was agreed with IEC CO and was due to the fact that IEC 6035-2-117 (the initial) numbering was a delta to -2-72 which is the delta to part -1 and made it confusing for people to understand/read the document properly. This was also highlighted in comments made by some NCs to the CD for IEC 60335-2-117. To make the standard easier to understand, it was agreed to create a standalone standard restructured in a way to have basically 4 clauses which have all requirements and compliance criteria in one place. Therefore IEC 60335-2-117 was renamed as IEC 63327 as suggested by IEC CO.

5d. ACOS Representative Report – [61(2020Web/ACOS Representative)02d, 61(2020Web/ACOS Representative)27, 61(2020Web/ACOS Representative)02dCC]

Mr. Jørn Tychsen provided the report in his role as TC 61 representative to ACOS.

The comment compilation in 61(2020Web/ACOS Representative)02dCC was discussed and Observations of the Secretariat recorded as follows.

MB/NC

Section

(A, B, C, D, E, F, G)

Type of comment2

Comments

Proposed change

Observations of the secretariat

AU1

1st dot

In relation to the question in the first dot point “Questions to TC 61: would TC 61 see the value in continuing this activity”

All we want is for ACOS to ensure TCs follow basic public publications and do not allow alternatives. (EG single Y1 capacitors and fully insulated winding wire not complying with complying with 61558-1 and 61558-2-16)

Accepted; TC 61 will send a letter to ACOS to highlight the situation with detailed description of the issues as outlined in AU1 and NZ1, NZ2 comments and ask ACOS for clear feedback on why these deviations have been considered acceptable when our analysis shows they do not comply with the basic and group safety publications.

NZ1

1st dot

In the attachment to the ACOS report 61(2020Web/ACOS Representative)27

The 3rd slide lists possible concerns.

It should be pointed to ACOS with respect to the row “Fully insulated winding wires (FIW)” that IEC 60317-0-7 is a normative reference in the GSP IEC 61558-2-16 as is IEC 60317-56 “Specifications for particular types of winding wires - Part 56: Solderable fully insulated (FIW) zero-defect polyurethane enamelled round copper wire, class 180”

So, we are not sure why this item was listed as a possible concern.

See AU1

NZ2

1st dot

The IEC 61558-2 series of standards are allocated by ACOS as Group Safety publications.

For transformers in SMPS IEC 61558-2-16 Annex BB has specific requirements for FIW.

The standards produced by TC 108 and TC 22 only reference IEC 61558-2-16 as an option. So, if the option of using IEC 61204-7 for the transformer is used (which itself only references the IEC 61558 series as an option) they are not in compliance with the Group safety publication and cannot be considered to have the same level of safety.

IEC 61140:2016 is allocated by ACOS as a Basic safety publication.

Taking into account the last paragraph of 5.4.5 of that standard a single component protective impedance device must always be considered as likely to fail and hence the touch current limits cannot be reliably met. It should be noted that in Ed 3.1 of IEC 61140 there was a footnote that stated “For example, where the relevant safety characteristics of a component are specified and controlled by the IEC Quality System for Electronic Components (IECQ), failure of correctly used approved components is not considered to be likely.” This footnote was deleted in the 2016 (Ed 4) of IEC 61140 therefore a single component protective impedance device cannot be relied on to meet the requirements of in 5.4.5 of IEC 61140. The standards produced by TC 108 and TC 22 allow a single Y1 capacitor to be used as a protective impedance device and this is not in accordance with the current basic safety publication. Even IEC 60384-14 allows one failure in groups subjected to specific tests so reliability cannot be 100% guaranteed in mass production.

See AU1

NZ3

3rd dot

It seems that guide 108 Clause 8 allows us to not follow for example IEC 61293 concerning use of an ellipsis for marking a rated range rather than a hyphen.

This is consistent with the last sentence of the last paragraph of the scope of IEC 61293 that states:

“The contents of this horizontal standard will not apply unless specifically referred to or included in the relevant publications.”

That is why we agreed with comment JP04 on 61/6012/FDIS

Noted

The letter to be drafted by TC 61 Officers as noted in the Observation of the Secretariat for comment AU1, will be provided for review by Mr. Tychsen, Mr. Johns, Mr. Murdoch and Mr. Schwendemann prior to be sent to ACOS.

Mr. Tychsen was thanked for his report and the recent progress was noted.

5e. CTL Liaison Report – [61(2020Web/CTL Liaison)02e, 61(2020Web/CTL Liaison)02eCC]

Enquiries will be discussed under Agenda Item 60, Questions of Interpretation, planned to be on Tuesday 17 November. NCs having further comments on the CTL Liaison Report may submit them prior to the planned discussion of the questions of interpretation during the 2020-11-17 web meeting. Comments are to be sent to Ms. Myers and Ms. Roh to be posted as a tabled document for the comment compilation on the report.

5f. ACEC Representative Report

Mr. Edmund Seiffert announced that he has received support to continue his role as TC 61 representative to ACEC. Mr. Seiffert presented a verbal report in his role as TC 61 representative to ACEC. ACEC last met in January 2020 and items under discussion include Guide 106, Guide 108, high power phenomenon, radio-enabled devices, 5G network rollout and frequencies up to 40GHz. Mr. Seiffert will provide a written report shortly and NCs may revisit and comment on the report once it is posted as a tabled document.

Mr. Seiffert was thanked for his report and the recent progress was noted.

5g. AG28 Report – [61(2020Web/AG28)02g]

The report will be discussed under Agenda Item 60, Questions of Interpretation. NCs having further comments on the AG28 report may submit them prior to the planned discussion of the questions of interpretation during the 2020-11-17 web meeting. Comments are to be sent to Ms. Myers and Ms. Roh to be posted as a tabled document for the comment compilation on the report.

--------------------

6. IEC 60335-2-4: Particular requirements for spin extractors

61/5930/CDV – Report of Voting 61/6003/RVC

New edition

The results of discussions will be recorded in 61/6003A/RVC

MB/NC

Line number

(e.g. 17)

Clause/ Subclause

(e.g. 3.1)

Paragraph/ Figure/ Table/

(e.g. Table 1)

Type of comment

Comments

Proposed change


1

DE01

ge

The DE-NC is in favour with the proposed CDV but wishes to submit the following comment.

Noted

2

US01

47-64

Foreword

Note of the Secretary

ge

The US in differences should be revised.

Line 48: 3.1.9 Different sizes of test fabric material are used. As an alternative to the test material specified, pieces of cloth having an area between 4 800 cm2 and 48 5 000 cm2, with one side at least 55 cm, may be used for the tests (Canada and USA).

Line 53: 18: The test for braking mechanisms is carried out for 6 000 cycles (Canada and USA).

Both accepted for USA only, not for Canada.

3

US02

153-158

3.6.3

te

This change was not deemed necessary in the Part 1 when introducing test probe 18 and this defined term is not used in this Part 2 standard. This term is used in various requirements within the Part 1 standard and changing the definition for ‘accessible part’ will impact requirements unrelated to accessibility of live parts and moving parts to children. The accessibility of live and moving parts to children is adequately addressed by the addition of test probe 18 to Clauses 8 and 20 and changing the definition is not necessary.

Delete lines 153-158

Not Accepted. But in principle need to update the definition of accessible parts in the applicable Parts 2 standards where test probe 18 can be used.

4

DE02

209

8.2

ed

Spin extractors as built-in appliances do not exist.

Delete the words “built-in appliances and”…

Not accepted. This is an addition to Part 1 for application of test probe 18. In Part 1 built-in appliances are also tested for application of test probe B.

5

US03

385-386

21.101

te

This compliance criteria is unclear. When determining compliance with 21.101 should test probe 18 be applied?

If so, the compliance should be determined by whether the appliance remains in compliance with 20.2 after the test.

If not, test probe B should be specified.

Replace lines 385-386 as follows:

The test is carried out three times, after which the lid shall not be damaged to the extent that compliance with 20.2 is impaired.

OR

The test is carried out three times, after which the lid shall not be damaged to the extent that moving parts become accessible to test probe B of IEC 61032.

Accepted with the following modification:

The test is carried out three times, after which the lid shall not be damaged to the extent that moving parts become accessible parts.

DECISION: Proceed to FDIS for ED7, which will be aligned to 60335-1 ED5.2

--------------------

7. IEC 60335-2-30: Particular requirements for room heaters


Amendment


MB/NC

Line number

(e.g. 17)

Clause/ Subclause

(e.g. 3.1)


(e.g. Table 1)

Type of comment

Comments

Proposed change


1

DK01

11.8

Table 101

te

The proposed temperature rise limits appear to be very high. In particular those for surfaces “…that are accessible to the test probe”

Room heaters are products used in the home where all groups of persons are present and could easily touch the products. The limits do not prevent a burn hazard from these appliances

Revise the proposed temperature limits to more adequately prevent a burn hazard for all groups of persons.

Noted – but no limits are proposed for discussion.

See also US01

2

US01

ed

1) “Other surfaces” is not clear due to the order of the table entries. These limits are applied to all surfaces other than those mentioned in the other Table entries, so it would be better to have it at the end of the list of appliance surfaces.

2) There are two entries for air-outlet grilles, one for built-in heaters with air outlets in the floor, etc and a second for other air-outlet grilles

3) Since “fan heater” and “portable appliance” are both defined terms, “portable fan heaters” should be bold.

4) The limits for surfaces of portable fan heaters applies to surfaces other than the air-outlet grilles.

By reordering the table entries and making a few editorial modifications, the above issues can be clarified.

Modify the order of the table entries with the proposed modifications in Annex A:

Accepted as presented in modified table in Annex A arising from the discussion during the meeting.

In response to the following question, “In the first entry mentioning ‘Other surfaces that are accessible to the test probe’ is clarification needed that the other surfaces do not include ‘surfaces of portable fan heaters not provided with a handle’?”, clarification is not needed as it is covered in Row 5 of the table in Annex A.

3

NZ01

23

22.110

ed

Clearer instruction needed.

Add “specified” after “probe”

Accepted

Table from Annex to 61/6004/RVC modified during meeting:

Heaters for mounting at high level and fireguards and their immediate surrounds

no limit

Air-outlet grilles of built-in heaters having air outlets in the floor, window-sill or similar locations:

– of bare metal

– of coated metal e

– of glass and ceramic or similar material

– of plastic having a thickness exceeding 0,4 mm c, d

38

42

51

58

Other Air-outlet grilles a of other appliances and their immediate surrounds that are accessible to the test probe b:

– for fan heaters

– for other heaters

175

130

Other surfaces of portable fan heaters, not provided with a handle, that are accessible to the test probe b:

– of bare metal

– of coated metal e

– of glass and ceramic

– of plastic having a thickness exceeding 0,4 mm c, d

42

49

56

62

Other surfaces that are accessible to the test probe b:

– of bare metal

– of glass, ceramic, plastic or coated metal e

85

100

Surface of the felt pad

60

DECISION: Proceed to FDIS for AMD2, which will be aligned to 60335-1 ED5.2.

--------------------

8. IEC 60335-2-53: Particular requirements for sauna heating appliances and infrared cabins8a. 61/5933/CDV – Report of Voting 61/6006/RVC

Amendment

Also taking into consideration 61(2020Web/FINC)38


MB/NC

Line number

(e.g. 17)

Clause/ Subclause

(e.g. 3.1)


(e.g. Table 1)

Type of comment

Comments

Proposed change


1

FI01

ge

The Finnish NC is in favour of this document 61/5933/CDV but wishes to submit following comments.

Noted

2

FI02

24

7.12

ed

We propose to modify the first sentence slightly.

We propose to modify the first sentence as follows: The instructions for sauna heating appliances for public saunas…

Accepted in principle. Replace “appliances for public saunas” with “sauna heating appliances and infrared emitting units for public saunas and infrared cabins”

3

FI03

32

7.12.1

te

It is said that

The instructions for appliances … shall state that a pilot lamp or similar indication independent from the control showing that the sauna heater or infrared emitter is switched on is to be installed where visible to the monitoring person

We are wondering whether it is possible to have a pilot lamp etc. which is independent from the control?

Maybe words “independent from the control” could be deleted?

We propose to delete words “independent from the control”.

Accepted

4

EG01

45

19

te

If you please mention the max degree inside sauna and limited by control device with duration allowable in addition pressure.

Not accepted

5

FI04

49

19.1

te

According to document 61/5819A/INF it is stated by TC 61 that “It was confirmed that 19.101 does take into account sauna heating appliances provided with programmable timers.” If this is the case this shall be clearly stated in IEC Publication also. We cannot find such a requirement either in IEC 60335-2-53 Ed. 4.1 or in doc. 61/5933/CDV.

We propose to add the following note at the end of clause 19.1.

NOTE Sauna heating appliances provided with programmable timers are considered as appliances that are used remotely.

Another option is that the relevant country note will be introduced for Finland.

Accepted to add an “In some countries note” for Finland stating the following:

NOTE Sauna heating appliances provided with programmable timers are considered as appliances that are used remotely.

The new paragraph shown in 61/5933/CDV will replace both the first and the second paragraph following the Table 101.

DECISION: Proceed to FDIS for AMD2, which will be aligned to 60335-1 ED5.2. In addition, it was unanimously agreed at the meeting that the AMD2 FDIS will include a modification to 11.2 to address the installation of saunas during the test based on FI01 in 61/5902/INF.

--------------------

8b. 61/5873/DC – Compilation of Comments 61/5902/INF

Germany, Various

The results of discussions will be recorded in 61/5902A/INF

MB/NC

Line number

(e.g. 17)

Clause/ Subclause

(e.g. 3.1)


(e.g. Table 1)

Type of comment

Comments

Proposed change


1

CA01

-

-

-

te

The subject matter should be presented to MT4 first.

Delete the proposal and refer to MT4.

Not accepted.

MT4 will submit a 2DC that takes into account 61/5873/DC and 61/6066/DC and the related comment compilations in 61/5902/INF and 61/6095/INF, respectively. The 2DC will be aligned to 60335-1 ED6.

2

CI/

ANEC02

ge

As IEC 60335-2-53 also covers surface temperature limits of other parts of a sauna, we suggest to refer this Part 2 to MT4 so that all of its surface temperature provisions can be reviewed in an integrated way.

Refer this Part 2 to MT4 so that all of its surface temperature provisions can be reviewed in an integrated way.

See 1

3

DK01

te

We agree with the rationale that the outside surface temperature of glass wall in prefabricated saunas should be covered by the standard. However, we don’t understand the proposed test procedure.If the product in question is a prefabricated sauna appliance, the temperature could be measured directly on the glass surface of the product sample and the proposed procedure is not required.

For sauna heaters and sauna heating appliances the should not contain requirements for surface temperatures on the outside of the sauna room. This is a part of the building structure and so is not covered by the standard.

Only apply the requirements for surface temperatures to outside walls for prefabricated saunas.

See 1

4

FI01

ge

The Finnish NC does not see any need for this proposal 61/5873/DC.

The Finnish NC has not been informed about any accidents due to the glass walls although such walls, windows and glass doors have been used decades in sauna rooms and in prefabricated saunas.

IEC 60335-2-53 is applicable mainly to sauna heating appliances. It is quite strange that we give requirements for the room where such appliance is installed. The relevant safety aspects have already been covered with the existing text for sauna heating appliances.

This kind of proposal can be applied only for prefabricated sauna cabins, if necessary. And in this case Annex CC is not needed because temperature of glass walls can be and should be measured detailed from the end product (i.e. prefabricated sauna).

Other materials than glass (e.g. ceramic materials) can be also used in walls. It is quite usual that benches and walls of public saunas are made from ceramic material. Such materials should be covered too.

The existing proposal is also unclear and too complicated in order to give comparable test results.

Our detail comments showing prevailing shortcomings are given below.

We propose to delete this proposal.

Alternatively the proposal should be improved a lot and the proposal should be formulated such that it is applicable only to prefabricated saunas.

See 1

5

NZ01

ge

Before agreeing with this proposal – we need more information relating to the methodology presented.

See 1

6

US01

ge

MT4 should be consulted on suitable glass surface temperature limits. The current MT4 guidance document specifies 51 K up to 850 mm and 56 K above 850 mm.

The temperature limits for glass surfaces inside of the room vs. glass surfaces outside the room may be different. Wall and ceiling surfaces are measured inside the sauna room and are allowed 115K by 11.8 of this standard. This corresponds with the lower limit threshold at approximately a 6 second contact time for wood surfaces per Figure A.6 of IEC Guide 117. The limit associated with the lower threshold at a 6 second contact time for glass would be 44K per Figure A.4.

Refer proposal to MT4

See 1

7

US04

Various

Various

ed

“glass element” should be bold throughout the proposal

‘sauna heaters’ should be bold throughout

Bold ‘glass elements’ in lines 17, 27, 38

Bold ‘sauna heaters’ in lines 18, 20

See 1

8

US03

various

various

te

Should this proposal also be applicable to infrared cabins?

Add ‘or infrared cabins’ after ‘sauna room’ in line 7 and modify the proposal to include infrared cabins

See 1

9

NL01

5-9

3.112

te

There is no need to make a definition for glass. In clause 11.8 different materials are listed which are considered accessible surfaces.

Delete proposal

See 1

10

US02

7.12.1

te

If the temperatures exceed the limits for glass used at 850 mm or less, then the installation instructions would need to indicate that glass elements should not be installed below 850 mm.

Likewise, if the 850 mm to 1800 mm limit is exceeded, the installation instructions would need to indicate that glass elements should not be installed below 1800 mm

7.12.1 Add the following:

For other than prefabricated saunas and prefabricated infrared cabins, if the surface temperature rises of glass elements exceed those specified for surfaces installed at 850 mm or less, the minimum height for installation of glass elements shall be specified in the installation instructions and shall be above 850 mm. If the temperatures exceed those specified for surfaces installed between 850 mm and 1800 mm, the minimum height for installation of glass elements shall be specified in the installation instructions and shall be above 1800 mm.

See 1

11

FI02

15

11.3

ed

It is informed that an addition will be added after the second sentence. This cannot be the case because it means that the same text will be given twice.

Clarify what is the intention of the addition.

See 1

12

NO01

15-27

11.3/11.8

te

We do not support this document. For every other standard in the 60335-series we do measurements of the outer surface temperatures and see no reason to deviate from this method in this part 2.Factors like the number of glasses, type of glass and distance between the glasses are factors which will influence the result.

Delete lines 15-27.

See 1

13

NL02

17

11.3

te

Due to NL01

Change “outer surfaces of glass elements” to “outer glass surfaces”

See 1

14

FI03

18-22

11.3

te

There is a contradiction in clause 11.3. It is said in the proposal as follows:

“The rod has sufficient length to extend at least 400 mm above the highest point of the sauna heater or for sauna heaters containing rocks, the highest point of the rocks.”

On the other hand, it is said that “the temperature on the rod is measured 100 mm below the ceiling.”

Furthermore, it is not specified where this rod is located. In the middle of the sauna cabin, beside the sauna heating appliance or in some other location? It should be defined clearly the location of the rod due to the fact that the sauna heater releases heat differently in different directions. On the other hand, how can the manufacturer of the sauna heating appliance know in which kind of sauna room the appliance will be installed? And in which direction the glass wall, if any, is located with regard to sauna heater? Location of glass walls can be defined only in prefabricated saunas and in this case the end product should be used for testing and a rod test is not needed.

Text should be clarified and it should be applicable only to prefabricated sauna cabins if necessary.

See 1

15

NZ02

17-22

te

It seems to us that rather than measuring the temperature on the rod when glass walls are used, it would be much simpler to measure the actual temperature on the external glass surface.

This would also cover application of infrared emitters

Measure the accessible outer glass surface directly using the MT4 test probe

See 1

16

US06

17, 26, 37, 55, 75

11.3, 11.8, 19.13, Annex CC

And Tables 102 and 103

te

The term “outer surfaces” (lines 17, 26 and 37), “outside” (Tables 102 and 103 and lines 71 and 75), and “outer glass surface” (line 55) an are not consistent or clear. Is this referring the accessible surfaces as stated in the Table 102/103 title or to surfaces on the outside of the sauna room?

Based on the MT4 guidance, the term external surfaces is recommended instead of accessible surfaces.

Change ‘outer surfaces of glass elements’ to ‘external surfaces of glass elements’ in lines 17, 26 and 37

Delete the row in the table with ‘Outside the glass element’ and change the Table title to ‘Temperature rise limits for external surfaces of glass elements’ for Tables 102 and 103.

The first column could then also be deleted and 850 to 1800 mm clarified so the table would appear as shown below:

Table 102 (103) – Temperature rise limits for external surfaces of glass elements

Temperature rise, K

Parts situated not more than 850 mm above the floor after installation

Parts situated between 850 mm and 1800 mm above the floor after installation

55

60

See 1

17

US07

17. 26-27

te

ed

For prefabricated saunas and infrared cabins, the temperatures should be measured, not calculated.

Also, ‘must not’ should be ‘shall not’

Line 17 - For determining the outer surfaces of glass elements in other than prefabricated saunas or prefabricated infrared cabins, the temperature inside the sauna …

Line 26-27 – The measured temperature rise for prefabricated saunas or prefabricated infrared cabins or the temperature rise calculated according to Annex CC for other appliances on the outer surfaces of the glass elements shall not exceed the values given in Table 102.

See 1

18

US05

18, 21

11.3

ed

Sauna cabinet should be sauna room for consistency with the existing standard

Change ‘sauna cabinet’ to ‘sauna room’ in lines 18 and 21

See 1

19

FI04

26-27

11.8

te

Allowed values for temperature rise of the outer surfaces of glass elements are stated in subclause 11.8 and in Table 102. Why? We would understand that inner surfaces (inside the sauna cabin) should be observed instead of outer surfaces.

Delete the whole Subclause 11.8 and Table 102.

See 1

20

NL03

26-27

11.8

te

Due to NL01

Change “outer surfaces of glass elements” to “outer glass surfaces”

See 1

21

AU01

29-30

te

The values in this table should align with the MT4 values.

Refer the proposal to MT4 for evaluation and recommendations on the temperature limits

See 1

22

CI/

ANEC01

29-30

11.8

Table 102

te

The proposed 55K and 60K rises for glass surfaces are not in line with the MT4 guide.

Replace 55K with 51K, and 60K with 56K, in accordance with the MT4 guide.

See 1

23

DK02

29

11.8

Table 102

te

It is important to protect against burns independently of the material used for outer walls. One could imagine also e.g. ceramic walls.

The table should therefore reflect different materials. And the temperatures should be in line with MT4 guide.

The present temperature in the table is too high.

Refer this issue to MT4 to update the table in line with MT4 guide

See 1

24

FI05

29

11.8

Table 102

te

If values are given for glass surfaces, the relevant values should be given also for wood which is the normal wall material and for other materials such as ceramic material as well. Introduce relevant values for other materials too.

Values for wood walls, ceramic walls etc. should be also introduced unless Table 102 is not deleted.

See 1

25

NL04

30

11.8

Table 102

ed

The table should be renamed to Table 101 and the other existing tables in the standard need to be renumbered.

Change name of Table 102 into Table 101 and renumber the other existing tables in the standard.

See 1

26

NO02

30

11.8

te

The temperature rises of 55/60 should probably be changed to 51/56, in line with temp. limits from MT4 in various other part 2s.

Leave to MT 4 to come up with reasonable temperature limits.

See 1

27

NZ03

29

Table 102

te

Q1:What is the basis for the temperature rise limits specified?

Q2: Why should they be dependent on the height?

Please provide the requested information

See 1

28

US08

33-42

19.13

te

Surface temperatures are not typically limited during abnormal operation

Delete lines 33-42

If not accepted, changes as specified in USX – USY are also proposed for the revision to 19.13

See 1

29

FI06

37-38

19.13

te

Allowed values for temperature rise of the outer surfaces of glass elements are stated in subclause 19.13 and in Table 103. Why? We would understand that inner surfaces (inside the sauna cabin) should be observed instead of outer surfaces.

Delete the whole Subclause 19.13 and Table 103.

See 1

30

NO03

35-38

19.13

te

We do not support this document. For every other standard in the 60335-series we do measurements of the outer surface temperatures and see no reason to deviate from this method in this part 2.Factors like the number of glasses, type of glass and distance between the glasses are factors which will influence the result.

Delete lines 35-38.

See 1

31

FI07

40

19.13

Table 103

te

If values are given for glass surfaces, the relevant values should be given also for wood which is the normal wall material and for other materials such as ceramic material as well. Introduce relevant values for other materials too.

Values for wood walls, ceramic walls etc. should be also introduced unless Table 103 is not deleted.

See 1

32

NZ04

40

Table 102

te

Q1: What is the basis for the temperature rise limits specified?

Q2: Why should they be dependent on the height?


See 1

33

JP01

41

19.13

Table 103

te

In the existing Part 2-53, the temperature rise limit (140K) of the wooden rod in abnormal operation is different from the limit (115K) in normal operation.

In the proposal, limits in Table 103 (abnormal operation) should be increased by some margins from limits in Table 102 (normal operation).

Add some margins to limits in Table 103.

See 1

34

NO04

41

19.13

te



See 1

35

FI08

50-82

Annex CC

te

We are of the opinion that such Annex CC is not necessary.

There are different types of glasses with different properties and characteristics which can be used in walls and doors.

The first formula does not give the temperature rise although it is mentioned so in subclauses 11.8 and 19.13.

Outside temperatures or ambient temperatures of glass walls are measured here. We are of the opinion that measurements should be made inside the sauna cabin instead.

Delete Annex CC because it is not needed.

Surface temperature for glass walls used in prefabricated sauna cabin should be measured directly from the end product. No calculation method is needed.

See 1

36

NO05

50-82

Annex CC

te

Based on our other comments, delete the Annex

Delete Annex CC.

See 1

37

NZ05

63- 64

Annex CC

te

We would like to know the background for choosing the heat transfer coefficient values specified.


See 1

38

NZ06

77

Annex CC

te

We note that the unit for λ value is not correct. The value should 1.0 W/m K

Correct the unit for the value of λ

See 1

39

US09

Annex CC

te

For appliances where the room or cabin is not provided, we are not opposed to using calculations, but would like those calculations to be validated by comparing with measured temperatures on glass surfaces in a sauna room built per Annex AA. Is any data available to support the calculations?

Provide data verification of calculations

See 1

DECISION: MT4 will submit a 2DC that takes into account 61/5873/DC and 61/6066/DC and the related comment compilations in 61/5902/INF and 61/6095/INF, respectively. The 2DC will be aligned to 60335-1 ED6.

--------------------

8c. 61/6066/DC – Compilation of Comments 61/6095/INF

MT4 Surface temperatures and probe 18

Also taking into consideration 61(2020Web/JPNC)72, 61(2020Web/MT4)74

The results of discussions will be recorded in 61/6095A/INF

MB/NC

Line number

(e.g. 17)

Clause/ Subclause

(e.g. 3.1)


(e.g. Table 1)

Type of comment

Comments

Proposed change


1

CH01

ge

The CH NC supports this proposal with the following comment(s).

Noted

2

DE01

general

ge

delete the complete DC;

The sauna heaters are constructed in such a way that temperatures of up to circa 100 K can be reached on the inner ceiling surface.

The current measurement of such heaters shall be made at the standard test room temperature of 20 deg C.

Such a test condition does not really come near to real operating conditions.

No incidents were known where users of the heated sauna had been hurt. Therefore the current temperature levels do not need to be revised.

However the DE proposal to limit the temperatures of the outside surface of glass elements of the sauna cabin should be realised in an amendment. These temperatures are not checked so far.

Leave the current standard as it is and just add a limit of the outside surface temperature of glass elements of sauna cabin walls.

Not accepted.

MT4 will submit a 2DC that takes into account 61/5873/DC and 61/6066/DC and the related comment compilations in 61/5902/INF and 61/6095/INF, respectively. The 2DC will be aligned to 60335-1 ED6.

3

DK01

Background

ge

A reference is made to the fact that test probe 18 is included in cl. 8 and cl. 20 of the new 6th ed of IEC 60335-1 and therefor no changes are needed in this part-2. However in the foreword of the new edition (in 61/6012/FDIS) the following is indicated:

This sixth edition of IEC 60335-1 is only to be used in conjunction with parts 2 that have been established on the basis of this edition.

As such the inclusions of test probe 18 in cl. 8 and cl. 20 will only be relevant for a part-2 that is developed based on the new par-1.This does not appear to be the case with this part-2 and hence changes may be necessary to implement test probe 18 as intended.

See 2

4

FI01

ge

The Finnish NC does not see any need for this proposal 61/6066/DC.

The Finnish NC has not been informed about any accidents due to the hot surfaces although such surfaces (metal surfaces of sauna heater, wooden benches and walls, glass windows and glass doors) have been used decades in sauna rooms and in prefabricated saunas.

It is not possible to use the same principle for sauna heaters than for other household appliances when stating temperature limits due to the different operating environment. Sauna room is a very specific environment because of the hot temperature.

Sauna heaters are used in totally different environment than other household appliances with regard the ambient temperature. Ambient temperature within the sauna room is normally between 40 °C and 100 °C depending on the height during operation and use. Therefore, temperature rise limits shown in Table 101 are completely unrealistic. Temperature limits are even lower than relevant values for room heaters (IEC 60335-2-30) which cannot be the case. Every person entering such a hot space understands that some surfaces might be hot. This is also the case with other surfaces than sauna heaters only.

The existing IEC 60335-2-53 requires already that the installation instructions for sauna heating appliances and infrared emitting units shall include the following detail: the arrangement of the separate protective rail, if applicable. The usual way to protect people not to touch the hot surfaces are these separate protective rails.

Our detail comments showing prevailing shortcomings are given below.

We propose to delete this proposal.

At least the whole clause 11.8 should be reconsidered bearing in mind the specific environment that prevails within the sauna room with regard the hot air temperature.

Finnish NC is willing to prepare new reasonable requirements and values for clause 11.8 to be included in IEC 60335-2-53 Ed. 5.0.

See 2

However, include the following in the AMD2 FDIS to be prepared for 61/5933/CDV to address the installation of saunas:

The sauna room of Annex AA, prefabricated saunas and prefabricated infrared cabins are installed away from the walls of the test corner.

5

DK02

12-19

11.3

te

This appear to be the MT4 "standard proposal" regarding surface temperatures. However, this does not apply well to sauna heating appliances and it is not clear from the description which external surfaces are intended to be measured. If the intent is to measure the external surfaces of the sauna heater itself, this does not seem to make any sense considering that the appliance is located inside the sauna room and therefor the surface temperatures are affected by the high room temperatures existing in the sauna room.

This is why in the existing standard temperatures are measured by a rod, away from the appliance.

Modify the text to clearly specify which "external temperatures" are intended to be measured; those of the sauna heating appliance itself or those of any control panels and similar parts located outside of the heated sauna room

See 2

6

CH02

14

11.3

ed

The formulation “…of Figure 104 is used …” is in contradiction with the formulation “Any measuring instrument giving the same results as the probe may be used.” in lines 18 and 19.

Replace “… of Figure 104 is used …” with “… of Figure 104 can be used …”.

See 2

7

CH03

24

11.8

ed

Improve formulation and follow rules dealing with drafting of IEC standards.

Replace “In the part 1,” with “In Part 1,”.

See 2

8

NZ01

26-27

11.8

ed

By definition, the sauna room is part of the prefabricated sauna.

Replace lines 26-27 by the following:

The temperature rise of the

· wooden rod;

· walls, ceiling and floor of the sauna room of the prefabricated sauna;

shall not exceed 115 K

See 2

9

DK03

30-35

11.8

te

The temperature rise limits provide in table 101 seem to be unrealistic for the sauna heating appliance. Additionally with the exception of "functional surfaces" which according to line 10 include the rock container, there are not many surfaces to which this requirement apply anyway.As indicated in DK02, all surfaces of the sauna heating appliance would be heated to the temperature of the sauna room and therefor these temperatures cannot be affected by any constructional means thus providing temperature limits to any surfaces of such appliances does not make any sense.

Specify that the temperature limits of table 101 only apply to parts located outside of the heated sauna room.

See 2

10

FI02

30-31

11.8

te

IEC 60335-2-53 is applicable mainly to sauna heating appliances. It is quite strange that we give requirements for the room where such appliance is installed.

Delete lines 30-31

or

make it applicable only for prefabricated sauna cabins

or

modify the text as follows:

In the sauna room or cabin, the temperature rises of handles, knobs, grips and similar parts that are held for short periods only, and the values in Table 3 are increased by 20 K.

See 2

11

NZ02

30

11.8

ed

By definition, the sauna room is part of the prefabricated sauna and the cabin is part of the prefabricated infrared cabin

In line 30 replace “sauna room or cabin”

By

“sauna room of the prefabricated sauna or cabin of the prefabricated infrared cabin”

See 2

12

NZ03

11.8

te

The Note explaining the ambient air temperature is missing. It should be normative text.

Add after line 31

The ambient temperature is the temperature of the air outside the sauna room of the prefabricated sauna or cabin of the prefabricated infrared cabin.

OR

Should the substance of it be added to 5.7?

See 2

13

FI03

34

11.8

Table 101

te

Table 101 is completely unrealistic at least for metallic surfaces. This table would mean that vast majority of existing sauna heater constructions on the market would be prohibited in future. We cannot see any justification for that. It is enough to limit temperature rises for handles, knobs, grips and similar parts that are held for short periods only.

Nowadays, sauna heaters covered with stones or construction where heating elements are encapsulated inside the stone are commonly used. Temperature limits for stone are missing completely from Table 101.

The whole clause 11.8 should be reconsidered.

Finnish NC is willing to prepare new reasonable requirements and values for clause 11.8 to be included in IEC 60335-2-53 Ed. 5.0.

See 2

DECISION: MT4 will submit a 2DC that takes into account 61/5873/DC and 61/6066/DC and the related comment compilations in 61/5902/INF and 61/6095/INF, respectively. The 2DC will be aligned to 60335-1 ED6. In addition, the AMD2 FDIS to be prepared for 61/5933/CDV will include a modification to 11.2 to address the installation of saunas during the test.

Regarding 61(2020Web/JPNC)72, MT4 will evaluate the information provided by the JPNC and consider what portions of the MT4 Guide would be suitable to include along with the JPNC input so that a guidance document can be circulated to NCs and then made available under Supporting Documents for TC 61 on the IEC website.

--------------------

9. IEC 60335-2-115: Particular requirements for beauty care appliances


New Part 2 standard

Also taking into consideration 61(2020Web/PT60335-2-115)37


MB/NC

Line number

(e.g. 17)

Clause/ Subclause

(e.g. 3.1)


(e.g. Table 1)

Type of comment

Comments

Proposed change

Observations of Secretariat

1

FI01

ge

The Finnish NC is in favour of this document but wishes to submit the following comment.

Noted

2

DK01

ge

The DK NC does not support the proposal.

Comments have not been discussed in sufficient depth at plenary meetings, and the PT have not had sufficient guidance from the TC. In this process we are not convinced that all our previous comments (for proposals 61/5788/CD and 61/5881/CD) have been considered.

As a result, we do not find that the current proposal provides the necessary clarity (for example in the scope) and in part does not provide for an adequate level of safety.

Delete the proposal

Not accepted.

3

DE01

12

88

104

202

1,

5,101

te

The title of the standard has been changed to “skin beauty care appliance”. The same term shall be used in the main part of this standard.

change the “beauty care appliances” to “skin beauty care appliances”

Accepted

4

NL01

12

88

104

212

Front page

Introduction

Scope

Scope

5.101

ed

The title of the standard has been changed to “skin beauty care appliance”. The same term shall be used in the rest of the document.

Change “beauty care appliances” to “skin beauty care appliances”

See 3

5

JP01

83

94

te

The term “skin” should be deleted in some portions for the following reasons.

In order to distinguish from IEC 60335-2-23, "skin" was added at the front of "beauty care" in line 83 and line 94 in CDV, but this modification gives problems:

(1) Misinterpretation that beauty appliances that stimulates muscles are excluded from the scope.

(2) This doesn't harmonize with the following.

line 88:

This part of IEC 60335 deals with the safety of electric appliances for beauty care of persons and intended for household, commercial and similar purposes, their rated voltage being not more than 250 V.

line104:

–Beauty care appliances with ultrasonic outputs;

line106:

–Beauty care appliances for melting wax;

Remove the term of “skin” as the following.

line83:

Part 2-115: Particular requirements for skin beauty care appliances

line94:

– Battery-operated appliances and other DC supplied appliances for skin beauty care;

Not accepted

Accepted

6

DK02

88-140

1

te

Despite improvements over previous proposals, the scope is still vague and does not ensure a clear determination of appliances covered by this standard.

Line 88-90 are very generic and would also cover all appliances (appart from those for animals) within the scope of -2-23. It should instead name the essential characteristics which the appliances within the scope, have in common.

The scope does not follow the usual 60335 templates where examples of products in scope and outside scope are provided as a note. Instead, the scope is defined only by examples and not by the naming of characteristics.

With the above in mind, DK NC do not think that, IEC guide 104, clause 5.2.2 requiring a product standard scope to contain:

“the description of the product or product family with its basic functions,”

is fulfilled.

The scope must be sufficiently clear to ensure that the standard is only being applied to appliances for which it is intended and for which it provides correct and adequate requirements.

Provide a clearer and identifying scope.

Not accepted.

7

JP02

101

1

te

In line 101, one of covered appliances overlaps with the following.

- Another covered appliance in line 95-96: Appliances with high frequency outputs including equipment for heat-producing effects on the skin

- Excluded appliance in line140: radio frequency appliances without contact to the skin

Delete line 101.

–Appliances using electro-magnetic fields (radio frequencies).

Accepted

8

FI02

126-140

1

ed

We propose to add ultrasound appliances provided with focusing ultrasound transducers into a list of appliances which are not falling under the scope of this standard.

Reason: On lines 709-710 (clause 22.115) it is said as follows: The treatment head of the ultrasound appliance shall contain only one single circle shaped, flat non-focusing ultrasound transducer.

We propose to add into a list of appliances which are not falling under the scope of this standard the following:

· Ultrasound appliances provided with focusing ultrasound transducers.

Accepted

Also in line 709-710, reposition the word “flat” after the word “one”.

9

DE02

163-164

3.1.9

te

The relevant normal operation of appliances having steam-producing or spray-producing devices in IEC 60335-2-23 is defined as:

“Appliances having steam-producing or spray-producing devices are operated with the container empty or filled, whichever is more unfavourable. However, if the appliance is marked to indicate that it is to be used with the container filled, the container is filled. Water is added, when necessary, to compensate for evaporation.”

Similar normal operation condition shall also be applied in part 2-115.

Change line 163-164 to the following:

“Appliances having vapour-producing or spray-producing devices are operated with the container empty or filled, whichever is more unfavourable. However, if the appliance is marked to indicate that it is to be used with the container filled, the container is filled. Liquid is added, when necessary, to compensate for evaporation.”

Not accepted.

10

NL02

163-164

3.1.9

te

Harmonise this requirement with the requirements in IEC 60335-2-23 for appliances having steam-producing or spray-producing devices.

Change line 163-164 as follows:

“Appliances also producing having vapour-producing or spray producing devices are operated in the normal position of use and filled with liquidthe container empty or filled, whichever is more unfavourable.However, if the appliance is marked to indicate that it is to be used with the container filled, the container is filled. Liquid is added, when necessary, to compensate for evaporation.”

See 9

11

DE03

180

3.5.102

ed

“…vapour of liquid…” should be “…vapour or liquid….”

Change “of “ to “or”

Accepted

12

DK03

210-211

5.10

te

It does not appear appropriate or necessary that the relevant load shall be detailed by the manufacturer. Cl. 10.101 and 10.102 already indicate that a load resistor resulting in the maximum input power and current shall be applied. This should be sufficient to allow the test be carried out without additional specification

Delete line 210-211

Not accepted.

But in 5.10 it will be clarified that the intent is to require the manufacturer to provide the details for the relevant load if the content of lines 380-382 or 396-398 are applicable.

Referred to EG1

13

NL03

216

5.102

te

The word ‘powdered’ is missing as was determined in 61/5926a/CC (NL08) .

Add the word powdered as follows:

The agar to be used for the test is prepared by mixing 6 g food grade powdered agar with 216 100 ml of water

Accepted to add “powdered”

14

DE04

221

6.1

te

According to IEC 60335-2-23/ cl.6.1: “…other steam-producing or spray producing appliances shall be class II or class III. “

Same requirement shall also be applied for vapour or spray producing appliances under part 2-115

Change the sentence to the following:

“Hand-held appliances, appliance incorporating vapour-producing or spray-producing and appliances that are washable according to the instructions shall be class II or class III.

See 15

15

NL04

221

6.1

te

Harmonise this requirement with the requirements in IEC 60335-2-23 for appliances having steam-producing or spray-producing devices.

Modify as follows:

“Hand-held appliances, appliance incorporating vapour-producing or spray-producing and appliances that are washable according to the instructions shall be class II or class III.

Accepted to add “appliances incorporating vapour-producing or spray producing” after “hand-held appliances” in line 221.

Add the following in Clause 6 after line 222:

Appliances incorporating vapour producing or spray producing devices for use in beauty parlours and similar premises only, may be Class I.

Respectively, in line 676 table 104, in the second-row change “appliance for use in beauty parlours” to “appliance for use in beauty parlours and similar premises only”

16

DE05

224-225

6.2

te

Clause 22.26 requires:”Hand-held parts of an appliance that can be cleaned under water according to the instructions shall be of class III construction having a working voltage not exceeding 24 V.”

Line 228 states: “This classification does not apply to parts of class III construction “

Combine above two standard requirements, the clause 6.2 (line 224-225) requirement “hand-held parts of an appliance which can be cleaned under water according to the instructions shall be at least IPX7“ becomes invalid.

Change “hand-held parts of an appliance….” to

“appliances that are washable according to the instructions”

Accepted.

17

DK04

233

6.101

te

How can compliance with this requirement be determined by tests?

Which tests would that be?

Delete the part of line 233 that reads “and by the relevant tests”

Not accepted.

18

NL05

243

7.1

te

Harmonise warning with the meaning of symbol ISO 7010-P026 (2011-05) and to make sure it is in line with the explanation for the symbol as given in 7.12 (line 267).

Modify as follows:

WARNING: Do not use this appliance in a bathtub, shower, or water filled reservoir. near water.

Accepted

19

DK05

254

7.6

te

In line with previous DK NC comments the sign for “not for household use” is not clear and cannot be expected to be generally understood by the general public and might lead to confusion.

It is also not a standardized sign covered by IEC 60417 or ISO 7000

As such the sign shall not be used in this standard.

The sign shall be proposed and accepted in IEC 60417 or in ISO 7000 before it can be used in this standard.

Not accepted

20

NL06

289

7.12

ed

Add space after the word ‘time’.

Add space after the word ‘time’.

Accepted

21

DE06

297

7.12

te

For household environment, it is nearly possible for user judge “the depth of penetration on the face shall not exceed 0,5 mm (not applicable if a control limiting the penetration to a depth not exceeding 0,5 mm is provided)”.

To mention this requirement just in user manual would not give enough safety for the household user to properly operate.

Delete this sentence in 7.12, instead, add in 22.11 1 the following sentence:

“The appliance used on the face shall be provided with a control limiting the penetration to a depth not exceeding 0,5mm.”

Accepted to delete the dashed item in 7.12 (line 297-298)

Also add in 6.101 the substance of the following:

Micro-needling appliances shall be appliances for use in beauty parlours and similar premises only.

In addition, change the test specification of 22.111 (line 688) to the following:

Appliance is applied on the artificial skin without extra downward pressure, other than the weight of the appliance itself.

Referred to EG1

22

NL07

297

7.12

ed

Delete comma after ‘mm’.

Delete comma after ‘mm’.

Accepted

23

DE07

309

7.12

ed

Type error “shaving” should be “having”

“shaving” should be “having”

Accepted and “appliance” should be “appliances”

24

NL08

309

7.12

ed

Typo. “shaving” should be “having”

Modify “shaving” to “having”

Accepted

25

DE08

313

7.12

ed

Sentence repeats line 302

Delete it

Not accepted

26

CN01

322-327

7.12

Te

For appliances capable of producing vapour, additional warnings are needed.

Add a dashed item after line 327:

-Warning: Contact with the overheated nozzle may cause burns.

- Do not use in subjects with capillary fragility or telangiectasia (dilated capillaries).

Not accepted

27

JP03

327

7.12

te

This requirement should not be applicable for vapour which contains only water, for the following reasons.

(1) Throughout the meeting for CD, the safety of vapour temperature is assured by the test of line456-457 in Clause 11.8.

In 61(Shanghai/PT60335-2-115)56, Observations of PT 60335-2-115 for Item 39 (JP 05) included the following, and it concluded that this requirement is based on a risk caused by substances other than water.

“Vapor may not just include water maybe include other substance.”

(2) According to the toxicity information in the Safety Data Sheet defined by GHS (Global Harmonized System of Classification and Labeling of Chemicals), Water is classified as non-irritating and irritating to eyes. This requirement is not needed for vapour which contains only water.

Add the underlined sentence as below.

–　Do not apply vapour to the eyes unless the eyes are covered by towelling or similar material, in case of vapour which includes substance other than water.

Not accepted

28

CN02

328-329

7.12

For radio frequency appliances, additional instructions are needed.

After line 329, add the following:

Do not use in people with a pacemaker or an internal defibrillator.

To reduce the contact resistance between electrodes and skin and reduce emissions, use a liquid/gel/conducting cream.

Parts that come into contact with the skin must be cleaned between one treatment and the other using the reported normal cleaning methods in the user manual provided by the manufacturer.

Not accepted

29

NZ01

341

7.12

NOS

te

It is necessary to distinguish between appliances that produce a continuous pulse train (see AA.1.1) and appliances that produce burst of pulses or single pulses (see AA.1.2).

Add an instruction that appliances that produced a continuous pulse train the treatment head must be continuously moved during application.

For appliances that produce a burst of pulses, the maximum number of pulses in a burst should be limited (value to be decided could be one or more) so as to distinguished this type of appliance from that producing a continuous pulse train. Operation of the application switch shall only produce a single burst of pulses. Re-application of a burst shall require a manual action (i.e operating the application switch again).

Accepted with the following modifications.

Add a note:

Continuous pulse train: time may not be limited until the user releases the switch.

Single burst of pulse or burst of pulse: produce pulse output: time is limited regardless of whether the button is pressed

In line 976, change “6 min” to “360s”.

Based on the above a rewritten Annex AA is provided at the end of this compilation of comments, and as a consequence of the changes, modifications to lines 259 to 260 in 7.10, lines 328 to 339 in 7.12 and 22.110 are needed and are also shown in the last page of the compilation of comments.

30

CN03

345-348

7.12

For ultrasound appliances, additional instructions are needed.

Add the following instructions after line 348:

Check the constant presence of special gel, during operation

To ensure perfect contact between applicator and skin, apply some gel on the area to be treated.

Do not treat people with sensitive skin and/or gel intolerance conductive.

Do not use on subjects with active hearing implants and/or with hearing problems.

Not accepted.

31

DE09

350

7.12

te

For household environment, how can user judge “the plasma discharge shall not be applied for longer than 1 s;” it is nearly possible.

To mention this requirement just in user manual would not give the safety.

Add requirement in clause 22.113 or 22.114,

“for plasma pen, the discharge time shall not be longer than 1 s. an over discharge protection shall be provided with the appliance.

Accepted in principle.

Delete line 350 and add the following in 22.114,

:for household appliances the arc shall not exceed 1 s

Referred to EG1 for positioning and to insert the modification in 22.114.

32

NL09

350

7.12

te

It will be difficult or near impossible for the average user to determine if a discharge is longer than 1 second. It seems this should be a design requirement not an instruction.

Delete line 350

Add requirement in clause 22.113 or 22.114, “for plasma pen, the discharge time shall not be longer than 1 s. an over discharge protection shall be provided with the appliance.

See 31

33

CN04

351

7.12

For appliances having vacuum-pressure functions, additional instructions are needed.

After line 351 add the following:

The instructions for appliances having vacuum-pressure functions, shall state the following:

Slide the suction cannula onto the surface to be treated, by carefully verifying the integrity of the cannula before of the application on the subject.

Accepted in principle.

Rewrite with the substance of the following:

Before using the suction head, visual inspection is made to ensure the suction head is not damaged

22.107 is rewritten as follows:

Delete the third dashed item;

Modify the first dashed item as follows:

Suction pressure shall not exceed 75kPa .

34

DE10

363

364

8.1

te

The output rating is defined in 22.104 for the electrical stimulators and in 22.110 for the radio frequency appliances.

For better understanding it should be stated the explanation in clause 8.1.

add in line 364:

after "considered to be live parts "add "as long as the clause 22.104 and 22.110 requirement is full filed. "

Not accepted

35

DK06

363-364

8

te

In line with previous DK NC comments the proposed addition does not contain any requirements, limitations or otherwise condition to ensure that these parts are not to be considered as live

It is understood that the addition in line 564 and 565 is providing some isolation from the mains but this is not sufficient to ensure safety of the relevant applied parts.

It is further noted that the additional requirements provided in cl. 22.104 (from line 597) only cover “electrical stimulators”. This leaves “radio frequency appliance without additional requirements ensuring protection against shock.

Without other appropriate requirements to protect against electric shock from all parts of all appliances covered, this addition is a critical breach of the safety principle in the standard.

Delete line 363-364

Not accepted because of the allowed output limits in 22.104 and 22.110. These limits are necessary for the appliance to perform its function.

36

DE11

369

10.101

ed

“electrical stimulatorshall” shall be “electrical stimulator shall”, a space is missing

Insert space

Accepted

37

NL10

369

10.101

ed

Typo “stimulatorsshall” should be “stimulators shall”

Modify “stimulatorsshall””into “stimulators shall”

See 36

38

US01

369

10.101

ed

Need a space between the