fo b1 commission meeting 5-21-03 fdr- tab 2- entire contents- minutes of 5-1-03 meeting 616

8/14/2019 FO B1 Commission Meeting 5-21-03 Fdr- Tab 2- Entire Contents- Minutes of 5-1-03 Meeting 616

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N A T I O N A L C O M M I S S I O N O NT E R R O R I S T A T T A C K S U PO N T H E U N I T E D S T A TE SMinutes of the May 1, 2003 Meeting

The Commission met at 9:05 AM, with all Members except Commissioner Cleland inattendance.The minutes of the April 10th meeting were approved. Commissioners decided, for thepurpose of the current meeting, that minutes should be more detailed, recording not onlydecisions but providing more detail as to the proceedings.Commissioner Roemer asked to stipulate for the record a number of points he (andothers) had raised in discussions about access to documents at a Commission dinner theprevious evening. H e recounted how he was unable to read a number of classified hearing transcripts at

the Joint Inquiry offices, an d learned that the Executive Director ha d reached anagreement allowing th e Executive Branch an opportunity to review those transcriptsfor th e possible assertion of Executive privilege. Commissioner Roemer stated thathe felt strongly that no individual in the Administration or the Congress should blockth e Commission's statutorily mandated access to Joint Inquiry documents. H eopposed any agreement limiting access to transcripts, interviews, or any other JIdocuments. H e stated hi s belief that th e Commission should establish a policy whereth e Commissioners make the decisions on access.

The Executive Director noted that there are no outstanding issues with the Executivebranch on possible assertions of Executive privilege with respect to Joint Inquirydocuments; all such possible assertions ha d fallen away. H e noted further that th eC hair and Vice-Chair ha d been informed in a timely manner of his actions. H eregretted any miscommunication with Commissioners, but did not regret giving th eExecutive branch a few days to come to the same conclusion on Executive privilegeas the Commission did. Chairman K e a n added that he did not think it was worthhaving a major fight with the Administration over the question of a few days ofcomity. The General Counsel concurred.

While agreeing with Chairman Kean, Vice Chair Hamilton noted that everyone feltCommissioner Roemer was exactly right on the underlying merits, an d that th equestion of access is an important, sensitive on e that Commissioners should decide.Commissioners concurred. He noted that all staff must be sensitive and attentive onthis matter. H e added that, despite this bump in the road, th e Commission came ou twhere it wanted toa good outcome.

Commissioner Ben-Veniste expressed concern about information restrictions,"stovepiping" among staff. T he Executive Director explained that his approach is to


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clear as many staff as he can into as many compartments as possible, because theExecutive Bran ch overclassifies. Th at said, the Commission needs to adhere strictlyto the need-to-know principle in providing access to such information. Access listsalready have been expanded, and may well be expanded further, consistent wit hdemonstrated need-to-know.

The Chair stated that where the Commission decides to make a stand on access toinformation is a very important question. Comm issioner Gorton stated his view that,as a general rule, when ever th e Commission wants a document, it should get it.Comm ission Roemer closed the discussion, observing that establishing authority is adaily battle. He stated his belief that th e Commission needs to assert fully its rights.The Com mission proceeded to a review of the W ork Plan for Team 1 on Al Qaeda &Related Transnational Terrorist Groups. The Executive Director noted that this team hasthe most important part of the investigative story: reconstructing the rise of al Qaeda an dits links to other terrorist groups, and reconstructing the criminal conspiracy. How didthe hijackers organize, train, rehearse, and execute their actions? The Execu tive D irectornoted that the credibility of the Com mission depends on a rigorous, authoritative account,in other words "how well we nail this story." Commissioner Gorelick supported th eExecutive Director on the importance of the factual inquiry and a detailed, au thoritativedescription of events. Commissioner Ben-Veniste concurred. He stressed the importanceof investigation, going beyond "all evidence now available" to dig deep into wh atagencies know, in order to discover gaps in our knowledge and conduct the strongestpossible factua l inq uiry . The Executive D irector responded and described a proposal toreconstitute an investigative uni ta "team 1A " as part of the inquiry , headed by a seniorinvestigative attorney. He added that it was his intent to bring before th e Commission atth e June 5 th meeting briefings by the DCI Review Group and by the FBI's PENTTBO MBinvestigation, the two most detailed (and on-going) investigations of the 9/11 event.Commissioners agreed on the importance of detailed review of documents prior tointerviews, and the importance of interview ing lower-level officials before proceeding tosenior levels. Comm issioner F ielding stressed the importance of reviewing existinginterviews and not re-inventing the wheel; Comm issioner Roem er stressed the impo rtanceof additional document requests, focusing especially on the 19 hijackers, as the JointInquiry looked into only about 4 of them. Commissioner Gorelick stressed th eimportance of exploring wh at methodologies hijackers used to find th e seams in ourdefenses and hide their activities, and the importan ce of the USG try ing to close doorsbefore terrorists opened them . The Vice Chair agreed on the imp ortance of an historicalinquiry, but that ultimately recommendations mattered m ost.The Executive D irector and General Counsel introduced the topic of the co nduct ofinterviews, and proposed that interviews be recorded and should not have agencyrepresentatives ("minders") present. Com missioner Ben-V eniste stressed the importanceof uniformity of approach. Com missioner G orelick believed it imp ortan t to researchCongressional prerogatives and practices with respect to such interviews. The Chair


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Com missioner Lehman though t that hearings outside of Wash ington wo uld indeed bemost useful and effective in the Commission's implementation phase.Com missioner Gorton expressed c oncern tha t the Comm ission's reco mm endations wo uldget wrapped up in classified information, leading to bland generalities in its final report.The Exec utive Director urged the Comm ission not to extrapolate from the J oint Inquiry'sexperience; he noted that it could learn from the JI in this regard and do things differentlyand better in the production of a valuable unclassified report.The Executive Director initiated a discussion on redaction of documents. Commissionersagreed on the principle of unimpe ded access by Comm issioners to all documents. TheExecutive Director briefed all Com missioners on 3 sensitive ma tters proposed forredaction in transcripts of closed hearings. Afte r discussion, Com missioners agreed thatthey would allow 3 weeks fo r review, an d then w ould agree to those 3 brief redactions.Comm issioner Roemer recomm ended that all matters of access be matters forComm issioner decision. He expressed concern about the current system in place withWhite House point of contact Adam Ciongolithat he did not see how any one personcould carry out this task, and that he did not like the idea of one single gatekeeper for 14separate federal agencies. He noted that the Commission has 12 mo nths to work outwhat the Joint Inquiry did, and a m uc h wider jurisdiction in which to do it.Vice Chair Hamilton noted that if Commissioner Roemer's idea were to be pursued, itwould mean going back to the White House and that would be hard to do. The GeneralCounsel added that Ciongoli had in fact been very helpful in working through a numberof issues. Commissioners Roemer and Ben-Veniste noted that the Joint Inquiry had theability to address problems at the level of the Vice Presiden t; in response the C hair notedthat this cha nnel of comm unication was used only in crisis situations. The GeneralCounsel observed that the Commission so far has had the ability to get what it wan ts; thatthe potential to escalate issues is available, tha t the current arrangeme nt has producedresults and should be given time to produce more. Commissioner Gorton observed that togo over C iongoli's head in the absence of a specific problem w on't help. He noted thatwhat Commissioner Roemer ha d proposed could be the correct approach when a seriousproblem arises. The Ch air noted that he and the Vice Chair are the hamm er to be usedinfrequently. Comm issioner Gorelick agreed w ith the approach of going to the top onlyin the case of a specific problem.Commissioner Ben-Veniste thought it useful to try to approach the FBI first on questionsof access, because of the FBI's clear interest in c ultivating the Comm ission. After somediscussion, it was agreed that Comm issioner Ben-Veniste and Com missioner Fieldingwould constitute a subcomm ittee of the Com mission for the purpose of giving guidanc eto Commission staff on how to approach access issues.The meeting adjourned at 1:15, and was followed immediately by a meeting ofCom missioners with representatives from the Family Steering Committee and other


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meet again M ay 21-23rd.

fo b1 commission meeting 5-21-03 fdr- tab 2- entire contents- minutes of 5-1-03 meeting 616

Documents