fierce grace: finding courage and compassion through challenge

Fierce Grace: Finding Courage and Compassion

Through Challenge

A Webinar Session withRuth Buczynski, PhDand Ram Dass, PhD

nicabm www.nicabm.com

The National Institute for the Clinical Application of Behavioral Medicine

○

○

○

Fierce Grace: Finding Courage and Compassion Through Challenge 2

The National Institute for the Clinical Application of Behavioral Medicinewww.nicabm.com

○

○

○

Fierce Grace: Finding Courage and Compassion Through Challenge

Contents

A Remarkable Recovery . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3

Stroke: A Form of Grace . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4

Comparing the Experiences of Stroke and Cancer . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4

Not Getting Caught in the Patient’s Karma . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5

Insights into Aging . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5

Difficult Experiences: “Grist for the Mill” . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6

The Work of Waking Up . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7

Counteracting the Fears of Aging. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8

Bringing Soul into Clinical Work . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9

TalkBack Segment with Joan Borysenko, PhD and Bill O’Hanlon, LMFT . . . . . . 10

About the Speakers . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 16



○

○

○

Fierce Grace: Finding Courage and Compassion Through Challenge

with Ruth Buczynski, PhD and Ram Dass, PhD

Ruth Buczynski: Hello everyone and welcome. I am Dr. Ruth Buczynski, a licensed Psychologist in the State of Connecticut and the President of the National Institute for the Clinical Application of Behavioral Medicine.

Wherever you are calling in from tonight, we just want to say a warm, warm welcome to you. We are glad that you are here to participate in our series on Spirituality and Healing.

I have a very, very special guest tonight. This is someone I have looked forward to ever since we started working on this series, and I feel so lucky and grateful to be able to bring him to you. This is Ram Dass. Thank you, so much for being here and welcome to our series.

He is the author of several books. His most recent is Be Love Now and Still Here (Embracing Aging, Changing, and Dying – 2001) is one of my personal favorites saved from all these years.

It has moved with me. It has gone through many purges, but each time that I go through and decide whether to keep or give away, this book I’ve always saved. So you can see what an honor it is for me to have you here as part of this call.

A Remarkable Recovery

We are going to start with talking about you. You have had several health issues over the last fifteen years, including a stroke and a serious infection, and I guess it would be too simplistic to say, “What did you learn from all of that?” But you had a remarkable recovery – to what do you credit your recovery?

Ram Dass: Love.

Ruth Buczynski: Love. Can you tell me more?

Ram Dass: I was surrounded by a number of helpers and I learned a lot about dependency. Before the stroke, I was always very independent, and the stroke taught me about dependency.

I learned that the stroke was part of my body, not my self. Usually we say, “I had a stroke,” but that’s not well put. It’s really that, “My body had a stroke.”

Then I had to learn to speak – I get a concept and I find the words; I go through the word closet: “What color should I wear?” I just go on and on, going on through. That was the aphasia, and I learned…

I am still having trouble with my words. Therapy is like walking in the pool because I can’t walk on the ground because of gravity, but I can walk in a pool.

Although everybody around me in the hospital said, “Oh, it’s too bad, your stroke. A stroke…” but what I found, from my interaction with my guru inside, is that the stroke wasn’t bad. It was grace.

“I learned that the stroke was part of my body, not my self.”



○

○

○

Stroke: A Form of Grace

Ruth Buczynski: I am glad you mentioned that because that actually was the next thing I wanted to ask you about. You have called your stroke a form of grace – as you did actually just now. I don’t think most people would see it that way. Can you tell us a little more? Why do you call it “grace?”

Ram Dass: I call it “fierce grace.”

Ruth Buczynski: I can imagine.

Ram Dass: But it brought me to a new level of consciousness and it quieted me because I couldn’t speak.

There were interactions – I was on a street corner in my wheelchair, and a couple came along and they said, “Would you like us to help you?” There was something so loving about the interaction. I found that being in the wheelchair…opened the hearts of people around me.

I had about two weeks of depression, after the stroke, which I realized was not depression about the stroke, but depression about the feeling that I had lost my faith. Usually, I had all my grace – my life was full of grace – and then the stroke.

I had the picture of my guru in the hospital and I said to him, “Why did I get this stroke? You were taking care of me. Did you go out for lunch or something?” And he said, in my imagination, that this was grace.

Later, I found that the stroke itself was not grace, but my reaction to the stroke was grace. I was positive from it. I was fascinated by it. It was changing my philosophy of life.

I really now saw it – I always concentrate on the now, and I don’t concentrate on what was. I didn’t see myself as somebody who was a golfer or a sports car enthusiast or anything like that. That was in the past.

All I did was concentrate on the now – and now I was somebody with a stroke – the body had had a stroke. That saved me a lot of suffering because the comparison was suffering.

Comparing the Experiences of Stroke and Cancer

Ruth Buczynski: Thinking about all the practitioners that are on the call right now, many of them come from the medical side of our professions; they might be oncologists or cardiologists, or emergency room practitioners – either nurses or physicians. I am trying to think about expanding some of the lessons you learned, outward. So, for instance, there are people who are oncology nurses as well as MDs. How might this be relevant for their patients? Let’s say they have a patient who has cancer.

Ram Dass: They (practitioners) have certain roles to fulfill, and that is the bottom line – they have to fulfill those roles. But what they can do is work on themselves and deepen their spiritual heart.

“...the stroke wasn’t bad. It was grace.”

“...being in the wheelchair...opened the hearts of people around me.”

“...the stroke itself was not grace, but my reaction to the stroke was grace.”



○

○

○

When they go in to see a patient, they see a soul and they are a soul. It becomes a spiritual meeting…

First of all, their role is that they have to get the patient better…But they themselves must not get caught in the patient’s karma. They are not becoming emotional about whether they get better or not. They do their role perfectly. Then they identify with their soul more than with their role.

I can sit with dying people; I sit at the bedside, and I go in as a rock, as a loving rock. We can bounce off that love because souls are loving toward one another, and that is the dying, and we can go ahead.

Not Getting Caught in the Patient’s Karma

Ruth Buczynski: Tell me more about not getting caught in the patient’s karma.

Ram Dass: You can fulfill your role without getting caught in the patient’s karma. That means in the wishing they would get better or feeling sad for the suffering. I am sure people would say, “Why is he not telling me? After all suffering is – spiritually – positive. Many, many people have suffered. Suffering might get them a step ahead in their spiritual journey.

Of course, I believe in reincarnation, which many of your listeners don’t. I think it is absolutely the way God wanted it.

We in the West don’t believe in it. We think of things, we think things about the afterlife and then we go to the afterlife and they become their projections; they think there is going to be a heaven or a hell, or a beautiful sylvan scene or something like that. That is just their projections from their life.

Insights into Aging

Ruth Buczynski: Has your stroke given you any insights into aging?

Ram Dass: Aging? I’m the poster boy of aging! I’m eighty-one and I feel that one of the things people haven’t explored is contentment.

I feel very content, and I feel that because I focus on the now. I don’t focus on the past and I don’t focus on the future, only on now. I feel content with my world.

I used to travel a lot. I don’t think about that because in the now, I stay put, just content…content. The AARP puts out the rulebook and has old people climbing mountains and playing tennis. But I find that I am content just sitting here.

The moment can be so exquisite; you just go into the moment. Go into the moment. I see outside the trees and the grass and the ocean – and you. I am content with just that…just that.

“...one of the things people haven’t explored is contentment.”

“Suffering might get them a step ahead in their spiritual journey.”

“When practitioners see a patient, they see a soul, and they are a soul. It becomes a spiritual meeting...”



○

○

○

Difficult Experiences: “Grist for the Mill”

Ruth Buczynski: One of the things that you have said is that difficult experiences are “grist for the mill.” I would like to ask you, as the poster boy for aging, can you tell us about what are the difficult experiences you have had and how it was “grist for the mill?”

Ram Dass: I can’t dance, for example, and I feel that attachment to dancing and I’ve had to give it up. The giving up of attachments is great in the spiritual world – giving up attachments.

Suffering…is grace. Suffering often leads you into deepening the moment. I often find that suffering makes me go deeper in my soul.

Ruth Buczynski: I would like to move a little bit from aging to dying. You were in the middle of writing Still Here when you had your stroke, so you had a beginning of a book and then a personal event – I don’t know if you would use the word “tragedy” probably not…

Ram Dass: It was “grace.”

Ruth Buczynski: Yes. How would you say the book changed as a result of your experience?

Ram Dass: That book was written when I was sixty-two or so, and I am still here – and I was so joyous about aging.

Now, when I’m in my eighties, there is the joy, it’s true, but with the joy is deepening of life. I think now I don’t take the suffering so lightly because there has been a lot more suffering.

The suffering still calls me to the moment, and aging has in it suffering, especially if you haven’t made friends with change.

With aging, there are changes in your body, changes in your family, changes in your friends, changes in the society – unless you are friends with change, you don’t get by without really suffering.

It is like the changes in the season. “Well, here comes another stranger – a season. There’s another one and another one.”

Not being able to walk (is change). I see everybody else walking, and even in my fantasies I walk, but I don’t walk regularly. It is a change – and so I just get comfortable in my wheelchair and I love my wheelchair.

See, my spiritual route is love. That is the route I use to get to God. I love everything. It’s far out…

In the middle of my chest, I focus. That’s where I will chant to my spiritual heart. Then, I want to take the identification which comes from the ego, and move it down to the spiritual heart.

The spiritual heart I consider loving awareness – because you are aware from down here. I just say, “I am loving aware. I am loving aware. I am loving awareness…”

“Suffering often leads you into deepening the moment.”

“...unless you are friends with change, you don’t get by without really suffering.”

“...I want to take the identification which comes from the ego, and move it down to the spiritual heart.”



○

○

○

The spiritual heart, you can’t operate on it. You can’t open it because you won’t be there, because it is not in this plane. It is not a thing. So you aim at “I am loving awareness.” And finally you have just got, “Loving awareness. Loving awareness. Loving awareness.”

It gets so that you are aware of the things that are in the moment, and you love every one and every thing.

My guru said, “Ram Dass, love everybody.” And I said, from my ego, I said, “Maharaji, I can’t love everybody.” And he was training me to live down here, because this identity of us is the “Real I.”

The ego is who we think we are – and down below is called the “Real I.”

I didn’t find that out until well along in my life. Most people continue to this – and this to this on the deathbed. But if you have done this work in your life, the deathbed is nothing. There is no clinging to the incarnation.

The Work of Waking Up

Ruth Buczynski: You have said that dying people and caregivers of the dying are involved/engaged in the same work – the work of waking up. Can you tell me more about what you mean by that?

Ram Dass: Waking up is this way of identification from there to there. We’re waking up to our real self, in which the spirit is our home.

We are not humans taking a spiritual trip; we are spiritual beings taking a human trip. We are on a journey, you and I. How is your trip? My trip is pretty good!

And that change is so much a part of the dying process, because the dying process casts you into your soul.

For the attendants to the dying, they want to follow the dying person through the ceremony to the end and they can only do that if they are in their spiritual heart.

We are mirrors to each other, and the caretaker gets caught in that role because of the intensity of the situation.

But one way or the other, they can get caught in their soul and then they can mirror the soul for the soul of the dying person – and that is a great, great deal more help than the help they get in their role.

Ruth Buczynski: Ram Dass, how do we do that? How do we mirror the soul to the dying person?

Ram Dass: Once you get to your soul, then every person you look at is a soul - the soul in a human incarnation. Then, that

“The ego is who we think we are - and down below is called the ‘Real I.’”

“We are not humans taking a spiritual trip; we are spiritual beings taking a human trip.”

“Once you get to your soul, then every person you look at is a soul - the soul in a human incarnation.”



○

○

○

consciousness mirrors the soul of the dying person. All that means is that any spiritual path of any kind for the caretakers will be of value to the dying person.

Counteracting the Fears of Aging

Ruth Buczynski: In Still Here, you spoke about the usual suspects – our fears of aging and senility and some of the other things that make us awfully scared of getting older. Can you describe them and tell us how we can use mindfulness to counteract them?

Ram Dass: Yes. I take the memory. There goes memory! That’s the easy way – “There goes memory!” Memory keeps you in the past and I really feel that in the moment, now, gives you great happiness.

Ruth Buczynski: Let’s talk about dementia.

Ram Dass: Dementia is suffering for the family - the other associates to the person - more than to the person. The person can get the now and they can work with the now, each moment, and they have contentment.

My brother has dementia and I go and talk to him. It’s like a new relationship…each time, a new relationship…a new relationship…a new relationship – and if I don’t get freaked, he doesn’t get freaked.

Ruth Buczynski: Sticking with this theme and thinking about some of the things that we fear about aging, I think embarrassment comes up for many of us because we are just not able to manage all of the things that can happen. Some of us will have dementia; some of us will be incontinent….can you help us think about how we need to look at these issues of embarrassment?

Ram Dass: That (embarrassment) is seeing the self through other people’s eyes – and that was my childhood. Now, I see myself in my own eyes.

I really go inside - go inside and look. When you are down in your soul, you are able to look at the incarnation, look at it fully.

There is peeing in your pants, and isn’t that an embarrassment? He’s having the embarrassment; I’m not having the embarrassment. I’m a witness. I’m witnessing the embarrassment. A witness will be even more distant from your life. The embarrassment will do that - it will pull you into the witness of the embarrassment.

Ruth Buczynski: I’d like to stay on this theme for a little bit longer. Powerlessness was something else that you wrote about.

Ram Dass: Your powerlessness is out there. It’s in the incarnation, it’s in your life. You are not living in your life; you are living inside. You don’t have any powerlessness inside.

So you look at it as, “Wow – look at that powerlessness.” or, “Boy, is he upset about having less power!” But I’m not upset because I’m not at that plane (of consciousness.) I am usually one removed.

“Dementia is suffering for the family...”

“...embarrassment is seeing the self through other people’s eyes...”



○

○

○

There are planes of consciousness: you and I are talking today in this (interview), then there is a plane of consciousness, which is the soul, and then there is a plane of consciousness in the one, which is all beings meeting again in the one.

Those are three levels of consciousness. If you don’t hang out in the everyday stuff - that kind of consciousness - you will just be witnessing from the other consciousness.

Ruth Buczynski: How about depression?

Ram Dass: Depression is created by the mind, created with the mind, and therefore you witness the depression. Depression happens to the psyche, and it doesn’t happen (to the soul) – you don’t find the soul getting depressed. The soul may fall into the ocean of love, but it won’t get into depression.

It may sound simple, but it takes you a long time to make that transition.

Bringing Soul into Clinical Work

Ruth Buczynski: Let’s think about bringing soul into clinical work – there are so many practitioners on this call, both from the mental health world and also from the medical/physical world. What are your thoughts on how we could bring soul into our clinical work; how could we support patients more on their journeys of furthering consciousness?

Ram Dass: I think the practitioner, besides his/her medical training, should train in the spiritual, for example, meditating, singing, reading books that are written by people who are way…along in their soul.

I have a friend, who is a doctor in an ER, and it is so demanding, and he meditates every morning and every weekend. He just gets so that he is quiet and centered, and attentive. He works in the ER under tremendous stress – and he serves as an example for the other doctors in the ER because he is just so clear.

Ruth Buczynski: Thank you. I am afraid we are out of time.

To everyone on the call, we will be starting our Talkback Segment in a moment, but I just want to tell you that you will be getting an email from me soon, and I will give you the links to Ram Dass’s books in case you would like to check them out. We will give you the links to them on Amazon.

In addition, I am going to give you the link to the Comment Board. Please go to the Comment Board and tell us what stood out to you tonight. Tell us how you’re going to use what you heard tonight. When you do that, please put in your first and last name, your occupation, and your city and state or country, and then just tell us how you are going to use what you heard.

Ram Dass: It has been truly an honor to spend this time with you. Thank you so much.

Ram Dass: Thank you. You’re a great interviewer.

Ruth Buczynski: Oh, that’s very sweet of you to say. Take good care.

“...the practitioner should train in the spiritual...”

“The soul may fall into the ocean of love, but it won’t get into depression.”



○

○

○

TalkBack Segment with Joan Borysenko, PhD and Bill O’Hanlon, LMFT

Ruth: Welcome back. That was quite a call. First, let me introduce you both. These are my TalkBack buddies: Dr. Joan Borysenko is a licensed psychologist, and author of many, many books including Fire in the Soul: A New Psychology of Spiritual Optimism.

Bill O’Hanlon is also the author of many books including one which is The Change Your Life Book.

What did you think? Let’s start with what stood out to you in the call.

Joan: First of all, it’s remarkable to watch Ram Dass who’s been now, almost 20 years, in a wheelchair with that stroke and to witness the fact that this is a man who is truly content. It’s clear that he’s living the message of his classic book, Be Here Now.

That’s his whole message: when you’re living in the present, then you’re in connection with all that is. You’re in connection with what he calls the loving heart that witnesses.

I was really impressed by his degree of freedom and you don’t think of somebody in a wheelchair as free. You think of them as dependent, but he has that sense of freedom and that sense of, “I’m okay with death - it’s just a change of state.” His capacity to be truly present with appreciation to life as it unfolds is an absolutely beautiful teaching!

Ruth: How about you, Bill? What stood out to you?

Bill: First, I guess, to say that Ram Dass has been one of my heroes for a long time, and like you, Ruth, I carried his book around - that kind of battered, big format Be Here Now book. It was an amazing book, and I met Ram Dass in the early 70’s, so about 40 years ago, now. He’s one of my spiritual heroes and he’s had a big influence on me.

It was really great to hear him, to see him, and to know he’s still here as he says in the title of one of his books. But, what’s always struck me is his almost sideways approach to spirituality. He’s a little irreverent; he has a good sense of humor and that, I think, really just still came through. The essence of Ram Dass in Richard Alpert came through for me.

Ruth: I agree. It was interesting to me to both interview Stephen Levine last week and also to prepare for that interview and to realize what close friends they were…

So, let’s jump in and let’s start with Joan. What strategies can we use to avoid getting caught up in our patients’ karma and becoming emotional?

Joan: That is such a fantastic question, Ruth, because I’ve just recently attended a Compassion Fatigue Conference in Richmond, Ontario. Compassion fatigue is something that’s been researched a bit and really isn’t widely understood, but it’s when we get wrapped up emotionally in our patients’ stories and we start to get traumatized vicariously.

“...when you’re living in the present, then you’re in connection with all that is. You’re in connection with...the loving heart that witnesses.”

“Compassion fatigue is...when we get wrapped up emotionally in our patients’ stories and we start to get traumatized vicariously.”



○

○

○

It’s really almost secondary post traumatic stress that happens when you’re working with the dying, or when you’re working with the chronically or acutely ill patient.

When you’re working with a young woman like the one I saw a little bit ago who had a very, very serious lymphoma and two small kids, it’s so easy to get yourself into her place. If you empathize in that way, you will lose yourself and lose your capacity to be effective.

So to maintain the state that Ram Dass talks about - of being a loving witness, of being lovingly present, but without the sense of attachment that she has to get better or you hope this or that will happen - is very important. It’s just being able to be present to what is.

Depending upon the practitioner, the ways that we can do that are different. One technique – an old spiritual technique - that I have always used is that before I see a client, I actually imagine them in a bubble of light. I imagine myself in a bubble of light and I imagine that whatever is useful from one of us to the other will get through that bubble, but anything that’s not useful will just be stopped at the edge of that bubble.

That acts as a metaphor to kind of alert me to when I’m losing my objectivity and I think that’s helped a lot. It allows me to be compassionate without losing myself.

Ruth: Bill, when healing from illness or significant injury, sometimes previously independent people become dependent on others. Often that happens for previously independent people. What practices would you recommend to help them cope in this role shift?

Bill: That’s interesting because I have some personal experience with this as I think both of you know since I’ve spoken to you about it. My fiancé’s parents are 97 and 93, and I’ve been going and visiting them. They’re still living in their own home and they’re pretty independent, but they can’t drive anymore and they have some significant limitations based on health and age.

I guess because I was a family therapist for so long and I helped kids develop their independence, it’s interesting to watch it go the other way as people lose their independence.

There are some places where I just have to step in and say, as you would with a child, “This is not a place of choice. You need to do it this way or you’re going to fall or something bad is going to happen.”

I really need to come in and take charge in certain areas, but in as many places as possible, as with a child, you want to give choices.

My future father-in-law has to get eye drops and he hates to get things put in his eyes, but it’s really important - he may lose his vision if he doesn’t. So, I say, “Okay, you tell me when you’re ready. You tell me which eye…you hold it open.” This gives him as many choices and as much autonomy as possible.

“...before I see a client, I actually imagine them in a bubble of light.”

“...because I was a family therapist for so long and I helped kids develop their independence, it’s interesting to watch it go the other way as people lose their independence.”



○

○

○

I think that’s key with our clients and our patients as well as with the people in our lives who aren’t used to being dependent because they will sometimes rail against it. They want to keep control because everything’s out of control.

In as many places as they can have choice and control which won’t put them at risk - that’s the best thing you can do. You and I have talked about this in the past, Ruth, because both of us have had partners that have had significant illnesses and they were very strong willed.

They wanted to do everything and they couldn’t…and sometimes you just have to say, “Sorry, this is an executive decision, and you can’t do that! You’re going to fall. You’re going to hurt yourself and then we’ll have worse problems.”

So there are places when you have to take charge, and there are places when you can allow the maximum of their own personal control and choice.

Ruth: That’s true from the caregiver’s perspective. I wonder if either of you have a thought about if you’re consoling or if you’re a family doctor or a nurse practitioner who’s seeing someone who has just had a stroke…or has just had something that keeps them from having the personal freedom and mobility that they used to have.

What can we tell that person that would also be helpful to them? I appreciate those ideas and I think those are useful to the caregiver…and I think there are two sides to that. What can we tell the patient….

Joan: I think what’s really important is to listen to the patient - to listen to the person and to simply say, “You’ve had a tremendous change in life here and I’m sure you have a lot of thoughts and a lot of feelings. Tell me truly what’s going on for you. What is this like?

I think that what’s so difficult with a disability is that we start to feel invisible. We start to lose ourselves. So, when we feel, “I’m not lost. I’m still a person. Somebody cares. Somebody sees me…then that’s the single greatest hope of everyone’s heart. We simply want to be able to be seen as a human being and then you go from there.

Bill: I have one thing to add, Ruth. I read a book recently which really touched me and it was by Reynolds Price, A Whole New Life.

He tells about getting spinal cancer and how he lost his ability to walk. He writes near the end of the book – he had a whole memoir of his experience of losing a lot of independence – and he said, “I wish I could tell this to everyone who’s facing this kind of loss of choice and independence…I wish that someone had taken me by the shoulders when I first got this and said, ‘the old Reynolds Price is dead! He will never come back.’”

“They want to keep control because everything’s out of control.”

“...there are places when you have to take charge and places when you can allow the maximum of their own personal control and choice.”

“...what’s so difficult with a disability is that we start to feel invisible...We simply want to be able to be seen as a human being...”



○

○

○

He kept comparing what he used to be able to do with what he was able to do after he became ill and he said, “If they just told me - you have to double time –you have to find a new Reynolds Price with a new set of choices and a new set of options because the old one is gone.”

He kept trying to get back to where he was and he was never going back there. I think that’s a good message for people who have just

gone through one of these things where they’re going to be more dependent. It’s no longer the old you. It’s a whole new you and you have to recreate yourself with a whole new set of parameters.

Ruth: Thank you. I want to thank both of you. Now, I want to make it just a little more challenging. What if the patient is aphasic and just for the psychotherapists on the call, aphasia is the lack of the ability to speak. Joan, would you modify my description at all?

Joan: No, I think you’re right. That’s great.

Ruth: So, what if the patient is aphasic and can’t talk to you? He/she has limitations – somewhat limiting and somewhat unpredictable. I think that’s something we will find especially with aging people, and not only with aging people, but with anyone who has had a stroke.

Bill: I have something for this - really quickly. I learned this from Milton Erickson who was one of my teachers. He must have known about brain plasticity from early on. The famous country singer, Mel Tillis, stutters, but not when he sings! You must use a different part of the brain to speak fluently. So after aphasia, people can sometimes do rhythmic talking or singing-talking.

So, number one, I would go to that. I would say, “Is there a way you can communicate by singing it out or tapping it out or rhythmically doing it, which must happen in a different part of the brain.” That’s just a practical suggestion.

The other thing, and I think this is what makes Ram Dass so impressive is that he said, “This is what I was striving for all the time - to be here, to be present, and not to be generating all this content.”

When I’d speak, sometimes people would say, “Bill, you go on a little too much and I say, “Yeah, I know.” They’ve recommended that I go to Al-Anon and on and on and on… So that’s my 12-step program!

That would be a spiritual practice for me to not always be filling the space with words. So again, can we find a way to reframe this so it’s not just a terrible tragedy, but that there is a benefit or some compensation to it.

Joan, what would you say?

Joan: Bill, that was absolutely brilliant. I have nothing to add to it.

“It’s a whole new you and you have to recreate yourself with a whole new set of parameters.”

“This is what I was striving for all the time - to be here, to be present, and not to be generating all this content.”



○

○

○

Ruth: I’ve had a personal experience with that. My partner died of a brain tumor and was aphasic. I had to learn not to constantly try to fill in words and sentences unless I was asked to, and I had to learn to just slow down, to wait, and to be there.

It’s a profound experience certainly for the person who is aphasic, but also for the caregiver to learn to be with and to appreciate being with someone that you cannot talk with in the way that you might have in the past.

Moving on, Joan, have you ever worked with a patient who has experienced a spiritual transformation after an illness or injury? Is there a patient…?

Joan: I have experienced a number of those, but I realize there is a story about the transformation of a patient and a caregiver both of whom were good friends of Ram Dass. I want to give this book recommendation and a bit of the story to all of the practitioners out there. The name of the book is Ten Thousand Joys & Ten Thousand Sorrows. The author is Olivia Hoblitzelle.

I actually worked with her in the mind-body program at the Deaconess Hospital. She and her husband Harrison Hoblitzelle, we called him Hobb, went through Alzheimer’s. Hobb got early onset Alzheimer’s and he was one of the best known meditation teachers in Boston. Both of the Hoblitzelles were such good friends of Ram Dass and Stephen Levine - these were wonderful people.

They decided that they would use the same kinds of principles that Ram Dass has talked about here - of loving awareness, of

being present to what is, not making comparisons about what you used to do, but accepting yourself as you just said, Bill, of becoming a whole new being and that they would go through Alzheimer’s together like this.

It was a journey of Ten Thousand Joys & Ten Thousand Sorrows. Her book is extraordinary because at the end of every chapter, there are very specific invitations to processes - practices - that make it easier for the caregiver and make it easier for the person being cared for.

I think it’s probably the single best book - this couple’s journey through Alzheimer’s. So I just wanted to let everybody know about that.

Ruth: Thank you. Thank you for sharing that!

Bill could you describe some effective compassionate methods that we could use to help our clients see illness as grace? We don’t have a lot of time, but can you squeeze in a couple…?

Bill: Sure – this is very simply what Ram Dass modeled for us: balance out the losses with the blessings. He said, “This is what my guru tried to teach me years ago - to be here now. That’s all I can do.

My brother is demented and I go there. If I expect him to be like he was, I get frustrated, but if I just stay with him in the moment and don’t communicate that there’s something wrong, he’s perfectly fine!”

“...there are very specific invitations to processes

- practices - that make it easier for the caregiver and make it easier for the person being cared for.”

“...this is what Ram Dass modeled for us: balance out the losses with the blessings.”



○

○

○

So, it’s balancing the blessing with the losses.

Ruth: Thank you! I’m afraid we’re out of time. Everyone thanks for being part of this call. This was an awesome, awesome experience.

In a moment, I’m going to send you an email and in that email I will be sending you a link to the Comment Board as well as a link to some of Ram Dass’s books. Please go there, especially go to the Comment Board and tell us what stood out to you tonight and how you’re going to use what you heard.

In a couple of hours, if you’re a Gold Member, I will send you a link to both this video as well as to the audio. And by the way, people have asked, do the recordings of the videos and the audios include our TalkBacks with Joan and Bill and the answer is yes, they do!

You’ll get the whole thing from the beginning with the person that is the primary speaker of the call as well as in the end when the three of us are talking.

Then, you’ll get it on audio and mp3, so that you can use it in your car or at the gym as well as the video.

On Friday, you’ll get the transcript for the call and if you’re not a Gold Member and you’d like to be, there’s a link right below, so go ahead and sign up…and thanks for being here.

Next week we’re going to be talking with Larry Dossey. Larry is a good friend of Joan’s and well known among many of us in the mind-body community. We’re going to talk about the power of prayer and premonition. You won’t want to miss it! Be sure to be with us next week.

Take good care everyone… Bye.



○

○

○

About The Speakers:Ram Dass is a beloved spiritual figure, inspiring four generations of spiritual seekers. Ram Dass has made his mark on the world giving teachings and promoting loving service, harmonious business practices, and conscious care for the dying.

Be Here Now, Ram Dass’s seminal work, is a centerpiece of Western articulation of Eastern philosophy, and how to live joyously a hundred per cent of the time in the present, luminous or mundane.

Ram Dass now resides on Maui, where he shares his teachings through the internet and through retreats on Maui. His work continues to be a path of inspiration to his old students and friends as well as young people who are just discovering the path of Being Here Now. His most recent book, Be Love Now, follows the track of his own heart awakening and his quest to embody the unconditional love that he experienced with his guru Neem Karoli Baba.

Find out more about this and related programs at: www.nicabm.com

Featured Books by Speaker: Ram Dass

Remember, Be Here Now

Click HEREto Purchase Now!

Still Here (Embracing Aging, Changing, and Dying)

Click HEREto Purchase Now!

http://www.nicabm.com/?loc=deccon09a/presenters/&menu=presenters&bot=1&top=30&speaker=Bill_O%27Hanlon,_LMFT

http://www.nicabm.com

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0517543052/ref%3Das_li_ss_tl%3Fie%3DUTF8%26camp%3D1789%26creative%3D390957%26creativeASIN%3D0517543052%26linkCode%3Das2%26tag%3Dbillohanlon

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1573228710/ref%3Das_li_ss_tl%3Fie%3DUTF8%26camp%3D1789%26creative%3D390957%26creativeASIN%3D1573228710%26linkCode%3Das2%26tag%3Dbillohanlon



○

○

○

About The TalkBack Speakers:

Joan Z. Borysenko, PhD, has been described as a respected scientist, gifted therapist, and unabashed mystic. Trained at Harvard Medical School, she was an instructor in medicine until 1988.

Currently the President of Mind/Body Health Sciences, Inc., she is an internationally known speaker and consultant in women’s health and spirituality, integrative medicine and the mind/body connection. Joan also has a regular 2 to 3 page column she writes in Prevention every month. She is the author of nine books, including New York Times bestsellers.

Bill O'Hanlon, LMFT, is a dynamic, inspirational speaker and prolific author (over 30 books so far) who helps motivate people and organizations to determine what they are meant to be doing and to remove the barriers to succeeding at those goals.

Originally trained as a psychotherapist, Bill has become known for his collaborative and respectful approach, irreverent humor, storytelling, clear and accessible presentation style, and his infectious enthusiasm for whatever he is doing. He teaches seminars, leads trainings, writes books, coaches people and offers websites, podcasts, blogs, web-based courses, teleclasses and audio and video programs.

Since 1989, Ruth has combined her commitment to mind/body medicine with a savvy business model. As president of The National Institute for the Clinical Application for Behavioral Medicine, she’s been a leader in bringing innovative training and professional development programs to thousands of health and mental health care practitioners throughout the world.

Successfully sponsoring distance-learning programs and annual conferences for over 20 years, she’s now expanded into the “cloud.” During the past 4 years, she’s developed intelligent and thoughtfully researched teleseminars, and most recently, webinars that continue to grow exponentially.

http://www.nicabm.com/?loc=deccon09a/presenters/&menu=presenters&bot=1&top=30&speaker=Bill_O%27Hanlon,_LMFT

fierce grace: finding courage and compassion through challenge

Documents