episode 76 of the dsmsports podcast w/ ben smith of virtual reality company laduma

Snippets from Ben Smith on the Digital Snippets from Ben Smith on the Digital and Social Media Sports Podcastand Social Media Sports Podcast

Episode 76 featured CEO of Laduma, Ben Smith

What follows is a collection of snippets from the podcast. For the full episode, visit DSMSports.net

@njh287 DSMSports.net

http://www.dsmsports.net/


Ben's Career Path

“I've always been fascinated by telling great stories. Story-telling has always been something that I found myself in one way or another.”

Ben's father was a feature films producer and Ben began his career in the movie business → Worked on several big movies (including one with Sean Connery and Catherine Zeta-Jones)

Ben's work took him all around the world and various roles in movie production and directing



“Eventually, I discovered I didn't love (working in the film business) as much as my dad...I decided to go into an industry that I thought I'd love more...the sports media. I became a journalist...”

Ben worked his way up to The Times newspaper, where he rose to Deputy Editor of the football (soccer) section

From The Times, Ben went to the BBC → “I was interested in broadcasting and getting into television...I started off with the digital side of things, with the BBC Sport website...Then I moved into television and radio...as a broadcaster.”

After 4 years with BBC Sport, Ben started with Laduma → “(Virtual Reality) is different from anything I've done in the past, but it's very much a step in the next direction I see of story-telling. In many ways, one of the most fascinating and compelling ways to tell a story that I'd ever seen.”



On first experience with VR

“I'd seen some bits and pieces of 360-video, which is interesting and great and quirky. I remember the first time I put on a headset and I saw a music concert with Paul McCartney and I remember thinking 'Wow, he's right there. He's on stage, I'm on stage with him, and he's playing the piano...I've got the best seat in the house...How else would I get the chance to stand on the stage with (a music legend)?'...That is the thing I've seen ever since with VR – as soon as you put somebody in a headset, you completely open their eyes of the possibilities of this medium...It's an amazing thing to watch happen. We're fortunate that the stuff we produce has always had that reaction for people. I've always said to my team I want stuff that makes people go 'Wow.'...”



Getting consumers to understand the accessibility and impressiveness of VR

“I think that's the biggest challenge for the whole industry. There's no question that, every single time we show people the content, they love it. There's no question that it has a place in digital story-telling across all industries and mediums, particularly in sport. The challenge for everybody is convincing the public that this is something they need to buy into...that there's no reason they can't enjoy this.”

[Ben invokes the example of trying to first explain the concept of VR to his mother, before then putting the headset on her that really made her appreciate and understand it]



“You can plug into this stuff really easily (using your phone). It's not something that need be expensive. A Cardboard headset can cost you less than $10 in some cases. You've already got the most important bit, which is the smart phone...It's not 3D television where you've got to spend $5,000 on a big piece of hardware and it might all go wrong. You already have the key to VR in your pocket. And that's what convinces me that, actually, this is will get to the point now where everyone will realize its potential.”

“With sports brands we've spoken with all across the world...the recognition is that being able to give these headsets away to their fans is actually something that is very easy to do...” [Ben mentions the appeal of a sponsor being able to put their name/logo on the front of the headset drawing major impressions and engagement]...



“In some ways, Pokemon GO did something for augmented reality that made it mainstream very very quickly. And people now who work in AR...just (invoke Pokemon GO to explain what they do)...I think what we'll see is a moment, an event, maybe even a piece of content that tips VR into that public consciousness. It won't take long. And, from that point on, it's going to be fascinating to see the demand go up for VR content and see the realization from everybody...When that public demand comes, it'll be fascinating to see the scramble to get behind it.”



“I think, right now, the key for everybody is to keep innovating, keep pushing...We see developments in live and Next (VR) has really pushed the live space, which is a really challenging think to do right now (particularly integrating production and graphic elements)...I think the key for all of us right now is we're scrambling to try and do something that is pushing (VR) on and on. And, in a way, the competition is ensuring that we're improving the quality of content. The interest from brands (is growing as others do projects)...All of that is great and I welcome it massively...With something this new technology, you have a healthy skepticism [among brands and businesses]...



Everyone should be very careful and watchful when they're entering this space. They need to make sure they're doing it with the right partner...Someone who is going to understand the story behind it, help them and advise them on which kind of content is going to work...and then talk them through how you monetize it and how you engage with your fans...We're in a place right now where everyone wants to see this content and loves and it's great...That won';t last forever. Because people will become more savvy to VR, what's interesting and what actually is just gimmicky...And that will also drive the quality up. And I think everything that improves the quality of experience, the way it's delivered – we really welcome it and we want to be part of that race.”



How varying levels of quality of production of VR among different companies affects public perception of VR

“I'm confident the public will ultimately be the guys who decide whether VR succeeds or not. They'll also decide what is good content and what isn't...We see stuff all the time that is done for the right reasons because people are aware of the space and they want to get involved...But without understanding what makes (the content) compelling, you end up delivering something that is crap...that is something actually far, far worse than watching on the television...Everybody is trying, they're trying to do their best...We're very proud of our content...We work very hard to make sure our are different, something that's bespoke...It;'s a challenge for everybody and I just hope that...the public gives the best of VR a chance. As I say, we've never had a bad reaction to it.”



Laduma's VR work in sports and entertainment and other sectors where it may play a role

“Sports and entertainment is kind of where we set our boundaries. We've done a lot of work in music and live events (including a recent event with The Blues Brothers, Wango Tango and other major concerts)...It's a great experience. You're right on stage with the guys...you're in the front of the crowd..Obviously, the demand for tickets in these areas is huge and often outstrips supply...So for people that can't get in, not only the opportunity to go in the front row, but also to sit on stage – that's really interesting to us.”

[Ben also cites that medical and education sectors have reached out to inquire about VR]



“At this stage, the sports industry we think is really interesting because of the huge number of fans out there wanting to feel a deeper connection to their favorite teams, their favorite players. They may live on the other side of the country...and they want to feel closer to that organization...Social media helps you do that...and yet we think VR has the opportunity to bring you one step closer. To take that screen away and make you a part of that action, not just watching it...”

[Ben cites engaging clubs with global fan bases all around the world]

“Can that help teams, perhaps, increase loyalty in the battle for fans?...And then at some point down the line, does that help...those fans become perhaps more engaged with their club financially, through their merchandise, and even content...?”



Produced VR content vs. live-streaming VR content vs. VR practice content for a team to use in training

“It's a tricky one. I think the TV, broadcasters on all parts, are fantastic at what they do...The coverage is brilliant, it's in-depth...It' s a habit for the public...to break that habit with VR is unquestionably going to be a massive challenge. I think there is a place for it with live sport, no question, whether it is as a kind of value-add...The challenge with (VR video) is you need to be close enough to make them feel (they're right there)...the sidelines, right now, it doesn't feel like that just yet...Whether it can really crack the dominance of brilliant TV coverage across the world, I don't know...



For us, the fan engagement stuff was obvious. Social media has shown fans are adept at every little piece of content you can give them...whether that is a shot inside the dressing room or (a clip) fro practice...so the evergreen fan engagement stuff made a lot of sense...It appeals to be people all the world, it's (timeless). It can help you learn about your favorite player, what makes them tick, makes you feel more in sync with their life away from the stadium...

The training space is interesting, (too)...[Ben notes American football and its repetition of plays makes it a good fit for VR training]

[Ben notes Laduma is close for live-streaming VR – “The question is if we want to...”]



How VR is penetrating the sports organizations

“It's an interesting one and it has changed a lot over a period of 12 months...The Galaxy guys, 12 moths ago, maybe one or two guys knew (about the potential of VR)...That has something that has changed dramatically. Now every sponsor we talk to wants to know how they should activate with VR...every sports organization we walk into, every execute knows what VR is...That was interesting (to see how VR has grown in awareness and interest)...We]re (past) needing to educate people...Eery sports organization, at a certain lee, realizes that if they don't start talking about this now, they're going to be behind the curve...The Galaxy were very keen to keep their reputation as being a forward-thinking, dynamic organization...The Galaxy want to be first and what we've created or them is a first...

[Ben also talks about the deep engagement and time spent is a powerful desire for sponsors to get involved]



Helpful Tool: Over [app], photo editing app with filters, text, overlays, and user-generated 'artwork'



Teams investing in VR as a fan engagement experience vs. an investment to drive revenue

“There are some organizations who just say 'We know we need it, tell us how we should do it and let's get on with it...' That probably counts for 25% of the people we talk to. 75% of them – the bottom line is important. That's why we have to understand it so well (and) why teams talk to us because we know how to help them monetize, we know how to make it attractive to sponsors. We can help advise them on activation and how to make sure they can do it within their app – whether that is with freemium content within their app, sponsorship within their app...Revenue is important (to teams in several leagues Laduma has spoken to)...

Can we make VR work for (the team) as well as its fans? The answer, of course, is yes. The only difference is whether you want that money up front or whether you're prepared to wait and get a much bigger win from your fans down the line.”



What the process of creating VR content is like

“It's a partnership. You've got to be very open (to understand) how this is going to work best...The Galaxy were very open with their players...With players who were willing to open up their lives to us...

We were pretty structured in what we wanted to achieve. For each player, we had a concept and a rough idea of kind of a storyboard...That seemed the best way to be doing it because the player helped (with the planning and nature of content)...It was very much a collaborative process with the Galaxy. One of our strengths is our ability to help these brands tell their stories better than anybody else.



We were in there from the very start advising on what we thought would be most interesting to fans. Not just (fans) of the Galaxy, actually, but soccer fans all around the world (and) people that just want to feel what it is like in La for a few minutes (and see the sights)...

We wanted to offer a kind of experience that not only painted the players and allowed people to see them better to see (the players) better, but also to give people the experience of LA and all the amazing things that offers...A travel experience, a sporting experience. Something for the Galaxy fans, something for soccer fans all around the world. But also something my wife or my mother could enjoy, because they could feel the sun, they could be on the beach. They could go and see what it's like on Rodeo Drive for a couple of minutes. That, to us, it's an interesting part of it. It's picking people up from wherever they are in the world and taking them to a place, just for a few minutes...”



How a VR filming experience looks

“You would imagine it's a massive operation, it really isn't. Not in our case..Our rigs are very small and no bigger than the outstretched part of your hand...very small, very mobile...Even if you're shooting with multiple rigs, each one is capturing every angle you can imagine, so you can't miss anything...It's an interesting challenge, but it's not as big an operation as you would expect.

From the moment we gather the content, we're sending that back into our system (to) one of our stitching teams...They are pulling all this content together very quickly. We are turning projects around in 24 hours in 3D...Speed is important. Being able to turn around a piece of content is very key for one way or another. [Ben cites the rapid delivery at Wimbledon being paramount]

[Delivery comes via Facebook, YouTube, or an app Laduma can provide]



Augmented Reality vs. Virtual Reality

“Our view as a business is that the two will become one in the very near future. There are areas which complement each other hugely in each one. I don't think we see it necessarily as AR vs. VR...We see it as two huge industries that very quickly will become one. Both sides of the industry need to understand one another better (and) that is certainly what we are doing...

It makes sense for people that, once they're in a headset, it is VR and AR. That can bring up statistics; that will allow you to sit in a cinema and watch a movie with friends from other parts of the world. The AR/VR space is an interesting one. It will become something else, I think, in the next 12-24 months...”



Share-able Stat: 243,000 –> The number of viewers that watched at least one minute of the debut edition of Thursday Night Football game on Twitter on September 15



The coolest experience and/or film from Ben's career in the movie industry

“It was unquestionably meeting Sean Connery...a huge hero of mine, a fellow Scot, and just a great guy. Some incredible stories about him that I should keep private...genuinely starstruck.”

[You will love Ben's Sean Connery James Bond impression!]



The first aha moment for VR Ben where he knew VR was something special

“I think it came with the New York Times stuff when I was already involved in the space. It was the (tour of) New York piece that they did, which was brilliantly executed and showed the potential of story-telling in that space. It gave you some amazing views, it made you feel like you were in a place, it took you in a helicopter over New York...It was definitely inspirational for me.”



Which country is more ahead in digital media in sports – UK or USA?

“I would say the United States. The Premier League still looks to the US for the next hing to do within their digital content, no question. The expertise, in general, in terms of consulting still come from US. I think, you guys, because of the access and openness and the understanding of the importance of the media within all your organizations...your media get to go in the locker room after the game and talk to the players, which would never ever happen here in the UK. All of that helps...I think the gap is closing, definitely. There is a lot of very cool stuff being done here by he Premier Leagues in he UK. But a his stage I'm giving he gold medal to the US and the silver to Team GB, just as it was in the Olympics...



“You'd be very lucky to interview a player once a week. And, unfortunately, it's going more that way all the time...The clubs are understanding the power of creating their own content now. So rather than allowing media in to interview players, they'll do the interview on their own channels and then put it out. It will be interesting to see how that goes over the next four or five years...”



The industry besides sport most ripe for VR

“I think it's education. Being able to take kids on school trips wherever you want to take them without getting on a bus...or showing surgeons how to operate on a patient. I think education makes a massive case for being one of the growth industries in VR. Show, don't tell, is always the rule, and if you can do that teaching, then VR really is a way you're able to do that in the most real kind of scenario possible.



The best game and the best player Ben covered in his time working in sports media

Best game → “I think the opening game of the 2014 World Cup in Sao Paulo – Brazil against Croatia was pretty special. Obviously a nation that was just desperate to see their heroes do something special; unfortunately it wasn't to be...”

My favorite player, my favorite interview was definitely one Zlatan Ibrahimovic. I went to Stockholm for the day...He was waiting for me in the hallway of the hotel. We went up to a room, the camera man and him, we spent an hour talking. And he was just a superstar every step of the way. He was unquestionably my favorite interview.”



The biggest difference between British people and Americans

“I guess humor in some ways. We're a very sarcastic bunch. Often, sarcasm doesn't always wash over; that kind of dry, sarcastic humour that we have. I guess humour is the biggest difference. I laugh at all your guys over there now. I just think maybe our humour isn't quite as understood as it might be over there.”



Ben's #1 movie[s] of all-time

[Ben struggles with this one!]

“When I was a kid, the first movie I ever saw was Back to the Future in the cinema with my dad, and it was a massive moment for me. I think, if I really had to choose one movie that I would watch, I think it'd be The Godfather; it's a tremendous movie...The Professional is one of my favorite movies...It's such a hard question, so I'm going to waffle my way through this one...

“I think my favorite sports movie is between Raging Bull and The Natural.”



How will social media and VR converge in the future?

“I think we're already seeing it, to some extent, with YouTube making their 360 content available in the way they have, and obviously, Facebook. I think it's inevitable we'll be seeing VR experiences posted to Twitter and Facebook and people being able to pop headsets on...People will be sharing, I think the really interesting one is who will become the platform for sharing VR shot by the user...I think we'll see 360-video sharing within 12 months, and user-generated stuff. That's the really big next phase for VR is who captures that market best; Facebook are certainly hoping that it's the



The best food to get for an American visiting the UK

“There is a brilliant chef up in Edinburgh called Tom Kitchen, who cooks an amazing fish and wonderful British-Scottish food, so go to his restaurant. It's called The Kitchen...”



Who is Ben's pick for this season's English Premier League champion?

Ben picks Manchester City in a close race over Manchester United, with Chelsea coming up in third place



Ben's social media all-star to follow

Ian Macintosh (@iainmacintosh) – Covers soccer and other sports

He is a brilliantly clever writer...He will make you laugh, he will make you cry, and he will probably teach you a little about soccer that you didn't already know.”



Where to find Ben and Laduma on digital and social media

@BSmith on Twitter and @TheBenSmith on Instagram

@Laduma on Twitter and @LadumaHQ on Instagram and http://laduma.co.uk for website


http://laduma.co.uk/


Thanks very much to Ben Smith for sharing his experience, knowledge, and stories with us on the Digital and Social Media Sports Podcast!

For more, visit www.dsmsports.net and follow me, Neil Horowitz, on Twitter @njh287


http://www.dsmsports.net/

http://www.twitter.com/njh287

episode 76 of the dsmsports podcast w/ ben smith of virtual reality company laduma

Technology