efraim diveroli: transcript of sentencing day one - 8-23-11 - gun charge

8/18/2019 Efraim Diveroli: Transcript of Sentencing Day One - 8-23-11 - Gun Charge

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IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURTFOR THE IDDLE DISTRICT OF FLORIDA

ORLANDO DIVISION

Case no.: 6:10-cr-281-ORl-31KRS

UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, ) Orlando, Florida) August 23, 2011

Plaintiff, ) 9:30 a.m.)

v. ))

EFRAIM DIVEROLI, ))

Defendant. ) )

Transcript of the sentencing (day one)

before the Honorable Gregory A. Presnell

United States District Judge

Appearances:

Counsel for Plaintiff: J. Bishop Ravenel

Counsel for Defendant: Cynthia Hawkins

Court Reporter: Diane C. Peede, RMR, CRR United States Courthouse401 West Central Blvd., #4600Orlando, Florida 32801(407) 615-0305

Proceedings recorded by mechanical stenography, transcript produced by computer.

Case 6:10-cr-00281-GAP-KRS Document 64 Filed 10/26/11 Page 1 of 175 PageID 447


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Index of Transcript

Page

Aaron onahan

Direct by r. Ravenel 6Cross by s. Hawkins 15

Dejan DjuricDirect by r. Ravenel 23Cross by s. Hawkins 29

Daniel O'KellyDirect by r. Ravenel 32Cross by s. Hawkins 43Redirect by r. Ravenel 63Recross by s. Hawkins 64Further redirect by r. Ravenel 66

Jacob ShprecherDirect by r. Ravenel 68Cross by s. Hawkins 73Redirect by r. Ravenel 75

Andrian Leonard JonesDirect by r. Ravenel 76

Kevin cCannDirect by r. Ravenel 79Cross by s. Hawkins 94Redirect by r. Ravenel 109

EXHIBITS IN EVIDENCEGovernment's 3 12Government's 5 13

Government's 4 42Government's 8 & 9 78Government's 7 89Government's 1 90



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P R O C E E D I N G S

THE COURT: Lisa, call the case, please.

THE COURTROOM DEPUTY: This is in the matter of

United States of America versus Efraim Diveroli, case number

6:10-criminal-281-Orlando-31KRS.

THE COURT: Okay. Appearing for the government?

R. RAVENEL: Good morning, Your Honor. Bishop

Ravenel for the United States. With me is Kevin cCann with

the A.T.F.

THE COURT: And for the defendant?

S. HAWKINS: Good morning, Your Honor. Cynthia

Hawkins on behalf of r. Efraim Diveroli, who's to my right.

Also assisting me is Elena Cesario Pollock, who is a retired

A.T.F. agent, and she's going to be handling the I.T. matters

for the defense today.

Also present is counsel from the Southern District

of Florida, who may be assisting us during the course of the

proceedings. Your Honor, may I introduce Richard Dansoh.

THE COURT: Good morning. Welcome.

R. DANSOH: Thank you, Judge.

THE COURT: All right. We're here today for the

sentencing in this matter. r. Diveroli entered a guilty

plea to Count One of the Information in this case, charging

him with possession of firearms and ammunition by a

prohibited person, to wit, a convicted felon, in violation of



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18, United States Code, Section 922(g)(1) and 924(a)(2).

In connection with the sentencing, Probation has

prepared a Presentence Report dated ay 5, 2011, which I have

reviewed. I also have a sentencing memorandum at document

number 45, which was filed by counsel for the government, as

well as a notice of supplemental filing at document number

52.

I also have a sentencing memorandum prepared by

defense counsel, appearing at document number 55 in the file.

I also have a folder containing numerous letters

from family and friends of the defendant, and a notebook

containing various documents in reference to or in support of

the government's memorandum.

So that's what I've reviewed as of this morning.

In terms of scheduling, I can go until about three

o'clock today, if necessary. I just -- I can't go beyond

that. I've got a doctor's appointment and something I have

to keep. If we don't finish by three, I have to do it next

week, because I'm going on a brief vacation tomorrow.

Anyway, we'll do the best we can.

In looking this over, I don't know why we can't

finish this today; but if we can't, we can't. We'll continue

it until such time as we can conclude it.

All right. r. Ravenel, are you prepared to

proceed?



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R. RAVENEL: I am, Your Honor. We have several

witnesses we'd like to present. It will affect your view of

r. Diveroli's character. We also have to address several

defense objections. So we can do that whenever you're ready.

THE COURT: All right. These witnesses will --

their testimony will have some bearing on the defendant's

objections, scoring objections or factual objections?

R. RAVENEL: I believe they do.

THE COURT: All right. s. Hawkins, is it okay if

just go ahead and take the testimony and then sort things out

after that?

S. HAWKINS: That's fine with me, Judge.

THE COURT: Okay.

S. HAWKINS: Yes, sir.

THE COURT: All right. Let's go ahead with the

government's witnesses then.

R. RAVENEL: I call Aaron onahan.

THE COURTROOM DEPUTY: Please come forward, sir.

Our witness stand is over here. Please pause before sitting

down and I'll swear you in. Please raise your right hand.

AARON ONAHAN,

having been first duly sworn, was examined and testified as

follows:

THE COURTROOM DEPUTY: Thank you. You may be

seated.



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R. RAVENEL: ay I approach the stand?

THE COURT: You may.

DIRECT EXAMINATION

BY R. RAVENEL:

Q. Please state your name and spell your first and last

name.

A. Aaron onahan, A-a-r-o-n -o-n-a-h-a-n.

Q. What do you do for a living?

A. I'm a realtor.

Q. In what part of the state?

A. South iami.

Q. Do you know Efraim Diveroli?

A. Yes.

Q. Do you see him in court today?

A. Yes.

Q. Please describe what he's wearing.

A. Red jumpsuit.

R. RAVENEL: Your Honor, the record should reflect

the witness identified the defendant.

THE COURT: Okay. Pull that mic over a little bit

closer so we can hear you better.

THE WITNESS: Is that better?

THE COURT: Yes. Thanks.

Yes, so noted.

BY R. RAVENEL:



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Q. When did you meet r. Diveroli?

A. Around the summer of last year.

Q. How did you meet him?

A. Answered an employment ad in Craigslist.

Q. What was the advertisement for?

A. A sporting goods company.

Q. Did you ultimately contact r. Diveroli as a result of

that posting?

A. Yes.

Q. Describe the initial conversation you had with r.

Diveroli.

A. Very casual at the residence, describing ammunition,

sporting goods, stuff like that.

Q. Did you ultimately come to work for r. Diveroli?

A. Yes.

Q. What was your role with his organization?

A. Computer sales, outside sales, phone sales, for the most

part.

Q. Of what?

A. Ammunition.

Q. What was the company name?

A. A. .D., Advanced unitions Distribution.

Q. And who was actually in charge of that company?

A. From the top, it would be Efraim; and then my direct

manager would be Dejan Djuric.



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Q. Why do you say that Efraim Diveroli was in charge of

that company?

A. Everything was -- he was in charge of everything.

Q. Before you started working for him selling ammunition,

what type of jobs had you held?

A. Just sales, outdoor sales -- I'm sorry -- outside sales,

retail sales.

Q. Is there a reason why selling ammunition interested you,

based on your background?

A. Yeah. I was former military. I thought it would be

something different, something new.

Q. I want to talk to you about August of 2010. During that

month did you purchase an AR-15-style rifle?

A. Yes.

Q. Why did you purchase that rifle?

A. To test the new magazines.

Q. Did you purchase it with your own money or somebody

else's?

A. No. Efraim gave me the money and said I could keep it

in my possession as my firearm.

Q. How did you come up with the idea to purchase the gun?

A. It wasn't my idea. We have a list of weapons we were

going to test the magazines and that was the first one we

purchased.

Q. Who came up with that list of weapons?



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A. Efraim.

Q. Who directed you to purchase the firearm?

A. The same.

Q. Did Efraim mention any other firearms that he wanted

purchased in August of 2010?

A. I believe a ini-14 and a couple other of the same

caliber that fit that magazine.

Q. I want to talk to you next about August 11, 2010. On

that date did you go to the arkham Shooting Range?

A. Yes.

Q. Whose idea was it to go to the shooting range?

A. Efraim's.

Q. Who went?

A. Dejan, Jake, myself and Efraim.

Q. What happened when you got to the range?

A. Jake and I drove together. Where he got there. We got

the targets. We were there before Dejan and Efraim; and then

we'd start shooting, testing the magazines.

Q. Did Efraim shoot a firearm that day?

A. Yes.

Q. Where is the arkham Shooting Range?

A. North. I'm not real familiar with the area. West of

Fort Lauderdale, approximately.

Q. Did anybody force Efraim to go the shooting range?

A. No.



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Q. Whose idea was it?

A. Efraim's ultimately.

Q. What firearms did you see him shoot?

A. The one that we had in our possession. Then about five

or six stalls to the right of us, I think another gentleman

had the same caliber weapon. I'm not sure what design it

was.

THE COURT: Are you talking about an AR-15?

THE WITNESS: Excuse me?

THE COURT: An AR-15?

THE WITNESS: Yes, sir.

THE COURT: Okay.

BY R. RAVENEL:

Q. Was he using any sort of magazine to shoot the AR-15?

A. In addition to ours, I'm not sure what the gentleman

had. I think it was, like, a 30-round, a typical.

Q. What was your magazine that you were shooting with the

AR-15?

A. It was a clone of a company, Beta ag. It's a 100-

round magazine.

Q. On August 11th did any federal agents encourage you or

Efraim or anybody else to go shoot those firearms at the

arkham Shooting Range?

A. No.

Q. Were there any federal agents there, to your knowledge,



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with you?

A. No, sir.

Q. I want to show you it's been marked with a tag in the

top left as Exhibit 2, Government's Exhibit 2. Do you

recognize that?

A. Yes.

Q. What is that?

A. That's the firearm I had in my possession. That was

purchased with Efraim's money.

Q. Is that the firearm that r. Diveroli shot on August

11th at the arkham Shooting Range?

A. One of them, yes, sir.

Q. Does that photograph fairly and accurately depict the

AR-15 rifle?

A. Yes.

R. RAVENEL: Your Honor, I'd offer that photograph

into evidence and ask for permission to publish it.

S. HAWKINS: No objection.

THE COURT: All right. Government's 2 is admitted.

R. RAVENEL: That's Bates number 1394.

BY R. RAVENEL:

Q. Next, I want to show you --

THE COURT: Does that have the magazine in it that

you were trying to sell?

THE WITNESS: No, Your Honor.



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BY R. RAVENEL:

Q. I want to show you next Exhibit 3. What is Exhibit 3

show?

A. yself.

Q. There are several --

A. I'm sorry. The standing photo is myself. The second

photo is Jake sitting down.

Q. Were those photographs taken of you two shooting

firearms at the arkham Shooting Range?

A. Yes.

Q. Do those photographs fairly and accurately depict you

two shooting at the arkham Shooting Range?

A. Yes.

R. RAVENEL: I'd move for the admission of that

Exhibit, Exhibit 3, Your Honor, and ask for permission to

publish it.


THE COURT: 3 is admitted.

R. RAVENEL: If we can publish 1405.

BY R. RAVENEL:

Q. Who is that photograph of?

A. That's myself.

Q. Is that the AR-15?

A. Yes.

Q. And is the 100-round magazine drum attached to it?



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A. Yes.

Q. Did Efraim actually fire the gun as it was in that state

right there with the magazine drum?

A. Yes.

R. RAVENEL: If we can, show the next photograph.

BY R. RAVENEL:

Q. What does this photograph show?

A. That's Jake shooting the same weapon.

R. RAVENEL: We can take that down.

BY R. RAVENEL:

Q. Next I want to show you Exhibit 5. What is that?

A. That's the 100-round magazine that goes to the AR-15.

Q. Does that fairly and accurately depict the magazine drum

as it was in August of 2010?

A. Yes.

R. RAVENEL: I'd move for the admission of that

document and ask for permission to publish it.


THE COURT: 5 is admitted.

R. RAVENEL: If we can publish that.

BY R. RAVENEL:

Q. That's the same type of drum that was taken to the

arkham Shooting Range?

A. Yes.

Q. The purpose of buying these different weapons was to be



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able to test fire that magazine drum?

A. Correct.

Q. Next I want to talk to you about August 20 of 2010. Did

you come to Titusville on that date?

A. Yes.

Q. Who were you with? Who were you driving with?

A. Jake.

Q. At some point during that day did you go to Wal- art?

A. Yes.

Q. What was the purpose of going to Wal- art?

A. Buy ammunition to shoot the weapon.

Q. Whose idea was it to go to Wal- art?

A. Efraim's.

Q. Who paid it paid for the ammunition?

A. I was handed money to purchase that at the register by

Efraim.

Q. Do you remember approximately how much ammunition you

purchased?

A. Hundreds of rounds.

Q. Was there anything left -- how much compared to the

stock of ammunition that Wal- art had?

A. Cleaned out a couple of shelves. We had to get a push

cart to use it.

Q. Who selected the types of caliber ammunition that was

selected?



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A. Efraim did.

THE COURT: This is 223?

THE WITNESS: Yes, sir.

BY R. RAVENEL:

Q. After that, after you came back from Wal- art, is it

true that r. Diveroli was arrested?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Describe for the Court what sort of negative

consequences you've had as a result of your involvement with

r. Diveroli?

S. HAWKINS: Objection; relevancy.

R. RAVENEL: It goes to his character.

THE COURT: Overruled. I'll weigh it as

appropriate.

BY R. RAVENEL:

Q. You can answer the question.

A. Well, my name has come up on the Internet. You know,

for future employment, that could be a negative for me, the

embarrassment. You know, being shoved on the ground,

arrested, my character questioned as well.

Q. Answer any questions the defense attorney has for you.

THE COURT: s. Hawkins.

CROSS-EXAMINATION

BY S. HAWKINS:

Q. Good morning.



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A. Good morning.

Q. r. onahan?

A. Yes.

Q. Have you seen the charges against r. Diveroli in this

case here today?

A. Not exactly.

Q. Would you like to look at a copy of the charge?

A. Not especially.

Q. Okay. Do you know what time period he was charged with

a criminal offense for here in the iddle District of

Florida?

A. Last summer.

Q. Pardon?

A. I'm sorry. Last summer, are you referring?

Q. I'm asking if you are aware of the time period contained

in the charges pending against r. Diveroli in the iddle

District of Florida?

A. I don't know all the specifics, no.

Q. So you don't know he's just charged with what he did on

August 20th? You didn't know that?

A. No. I do know that.

Q. So on August 20th, y'all went and bought ammo at

Wal- art, correct?

A. Yes, ma'am.

Q. And are you aware that r. Diveroli pled guilty to that?



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A. Yes, ma'am.

Q. I'm sorry?

A. Yes, ma'am.

Q. Okay. Now, you said in A. .D. that -- who was your

direct supervisor?

A. Efraim and Dejan.

Q. Who's your direct supervisor?

A. Efraim until -- the company wasn't really put into place

yet even at that time. It was being in the process.

Q. Okay. And then you said your direct supervisor was

Dejan?

A. He was going to be my direct supervisor once we moved

into the new building.

Q. Okay. Spell that, please.

A. First name is Dejan D-e-j-a-n. Last name is

D-j-u-r-i-c, I believe.

Q. I'm sorry. Can you say that again, the last name.

A. D-j-u-r-i-c, I think.

Q. Dejan Djuric?

A. I believe so.

Q. What did he do for A. .D. when he was your direct

supervisor?

A. Well, like I said, we didn't get into the new building

yet. He was going to be my manager. So. . .

Q. Did you ever see the paperwork where he was the owner of



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A. .D.?

A. No.

Q. And did you ever -- are you privy to the contractual

arrangement between A. .D. and Ammo Works?

A. No.

Q. Now, you've said that on August of 2010 you purchased an

AR-15 to test magazines?

A. Yes.

Q. And was that for A. .D.?

A. It was under Efraim's guidance.

Q. I -- that's not the question I asked you. Do you know

if that was for A. .D.?

A. I was given the money to grab the --

Q. Do you know -- do you know whether or not it was --

THE COURT: Excuse me, s. Hawkins, but don't

interrupt him. He's trying to answer. If you don't like the

answer, at least wait until he finishes it.

A. I was given the money directly from Efraim to buy the

weapon, to buy -- to test fire the magazines.

Q. Do you know whether or not that was on behalf of A. .D.?

A. It was given to me in cash money from Efraim. So I

assume it's under his guidance.

Q. I didn't ask you if you assume, sir. Do you know?

A. I don't know specifically if it was under A. .D., no,

ma'am.



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Q. Thank you. Now, I think that you said that you were

told that you could keep that in your possession as your

firearm, correct?

A. Yes.

Q. All right. Now, this happened in the Southern District

of Florida, correct?

A. Yes, ma'am.

Q. So that's not anything that r. Diveroli is charged

with, is it?

A. I don't know the specifics, ma'am.

Q. Well, again, you don't want to look at the charges so

you can see for yourself?

A. Not particularly.

Q. So whether or not it was -- it was not explained to you

what the difference between the iddle District of Florida

and the Southern District of Florida is?

A. No, ma'am.

Q. Now, you said also that on August 11th you went to

arkham Shooting Range. That's also in the Southern District

of Florida; do you know that?

A. a'am, I'm not sure about all the maps and all the

geography. I just went there to shoot.

Q. Is it near Fort Lauderdale?

A. Yes, I believe so.

Q. Now, were you aware of r. Diveroli working on a deal to



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brand the magazines?

A. Yes.

Q. And that was a deal to take the magazines with no

ammunition in them and put a manufacturer over a dealer's

brand on the magazine itself?

A. Yes.

Q. And that was so it could be sold?

A. Yes, ma'am.

Q. Okay. And are you aware of whether or not magazines are

covered under federal firearms?

A. No, ma'am.

Q. Do you know one way or the other?

A. No.

Q. Now, you were shown a picture of Government's Exhibit, I

think it was, 4. If you will, look at that picture.

THE COURT: I don't think we looked at 4.

BY S. HAWKINS:

Q. Okay. 5. I'm sorry.

THE COURT: Can you put it up on the screen.

BY S. HAWKINS:

Q. Do you have that, sir?

A. Yes.

Q. Okay. 5, that's the drum that y'all were trying to

sell?

A. Yes, ma'am.



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Q. And that's the one that y'all were trying to have

branded with a logo so it could be sold?

A. Yes.

Q. And you were aware that's what r. Diveroli was trying

to do in coming to Titusville?

A. Yes.

Q. Did you know who r. Diveroli was going to meet with on

August 20th in Brevard County?

A. Knights Armament.

Q. Knights Armament?

A. Yes.

Q. Do you know whether or not that's an actual, real,

legitimate company?

A. Yes, ma'am.

Q. You do know that, don't you?

A. Yes, ma'am.

Q. Okay. And did you understand that the deal that r.

Diveroli was trying to put together was to have Knights

Armament put their brand or their brand name or their logo on

the drum that's shown in Government's Exhibit 5?

A. That was the intent.

Q. Okay. That was -- did you ever see the contract or any

paperwork prepared for that transaction?

A. I remember the verbal and the rough drafts were being

done by Efraim, but I don't remember seeing the final, no,



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ma'am.

Q. Did you yourself ever take a call from a gentleman

purporting to be r. Knight or the owner's son?

A. No. I believe that was handled by Efraim.

Q. Okay. Do you know whether or not a call was made?

A. I believe I heard a couple calls being made to set it

up, yes.

Q. Okay. So not just with the -- who turned out to be an

undercover officer, but another person who was posing as the

owner or the boss of Knight?

A. I believe we received an e-mail and I thought there was

a couple phone calls as well.

Q. So the purpose for going to the shooting range was to

test out the magazines that you were going to sell?

A. Yes.

Q. Who else worked for A. .D. during this time period?

A. yself, Jake Shprecher.

Q. And how long -- what was Jake's job?

A. The same as mine: Phone sales.

Q. Sales?

A. Yes, ma'am.

Q. Now, on the money given to you for the AR-15, do you

recall whether or not you got a company check for that?

A. It was cash.

Q. But we can pull the company records if we want to verify



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whether or not cash was withdrawn from the company or a check

was cut? Do you have any records, I guess, is my question?

A. Of the cash, no.

Q. Of depositing it or a receipt from the transaction,

anything like that?

A. (No verbal response.)

Q. No?

A. (Witness shakes head negatively.)

Q. I have no further questions. Thank you, sir.

THE COURT: Redirect?

R. RAVENEL: No, sir.

THE COURT: All right. Thank you, sir.

R. RAVENEL: Call Dejan Djuric.

DEJAN DJURIC,


follows:


seated.

THE COURT: Okay.

THE WITNESS: Yes.

DIRECT EXAMINATION

BY R. RAVENEL:

Q. Please state your name and spell your first and last

name.

A. y name is Dejan Djuric, D-e-j-a-n, last name



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Q. At some point did you come to work for r. Diveroli?

A. Yes.

Q. In what capacity?

A. I work for his company called A.U.I., was, like, doing

researching and stuff on the computers.

Q. What sort of research were you doing?

A. Like, freight and different -- I was contacting actually

eastern Europe because that's my language. That's what I

speak, Slavic.

Q. Did you also work for other companies that r. Diveroli

controlled?

A. Ammo Works and Pinnacle inerals.

Q. Were you on the paperwork for those companies? Were you

listed as an officer for those companies?

A. I was president of the Pinnacle inerals.

Q. Did you make the decisions about those companies by

yourself or did you consult with r. Diveroli in making those

decisions?

A. For the Pinnacle inerals?

Q. Yes, sir.

A. Efraim put me as president of the Pinnacle inerals

because I was in California working. I was working on gold

mine in California.

Q. Did you also work for Ammo Works as well?

A. Yes, sir.



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Q. Were you also listed as a corporate officer on Ammo

Works?

A. No.

Q. Were you listed as a corporate officer on

Advanced unitions?

A. Yes.

Q. Do you know why you were listed as a corporate officer?

A. The company was open to -- Efraim told me that I'm going

to be one of the company. arco actually opened the company.

Q. Did you have control? Could you make all the decisions

for the company or who made those decisions?

A. Efraim.

Q. Did you have any prior experience before you met Efraim

in arms dealing or anything like that?

A. No, sir.

Q. What sort of jobs had you held before that?

A. I do moving company. I was in restaurant business, in

hospitality business, working as a server.

Q. During August of 2010 did you go to the arkham Shooting

Range?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. What was the purpose of going?

A. Efraim's.

Q. Why did you go to the range?

A. They was testing magazines, hundred-round magazines for



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the -16, I believe, the gun, rifle gun.

Q. Did -- whose idea was it to go to the range?

A. Efraim's.

Q. Whose idea was to it to purchase the firearm that was

used at the range?

A. Efraim gave Aaron money to purchase the firearms.

Q. Did Efraim know, according to what you heard in Efraim's

presence, whether or not he can have a firearm during that

time period?

A. I'm sorry. I don't understand.

Q. Do you know whether Efraim was allowed to have a gun

during that time period?

A. Yeah, I know.

Q. Was he allowed to?

A. No.

Q. Did anybody tell him in your presence that he couldn't

have a firearm?

A. Everybody.

Q. What did you see Efraim do at the shooting range on

August 11, 2010?

A. Actually, Efraim and myself, we went together to the

shooting range. Jake and Aaron was in separate car.

Q. Once you got there, did you see Efraim shoot any of the

firearms?

A. Yes.



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Q. How many did you see him shoot?

A. I don't remember how many, but was shooting on the

shooting range with a rifle, -16 what is it called.

Q. I want to show you a photograph, Exhibit 2, that's

already in evidence. It'll come up on your TV screen.

A. Okay.

Q. Is that the firearm that was taken to the range and shot

by r. Diveroli?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Did r. Diveroli shoot any other firearms that day at

the range?

A. I believe so was a round, but I don't remember which

one. He was trying with some other people that was there at

that moment.

R. RAVENEL: We can take that photograph down.

BY R. RAVENEL:

Q. Would you describe for the Court what consequences

you've had personally as a result of being involved with r.

Diveroli?

A. any things. y bank account was cancelled. Reporters

are calling me every day, all day. y name is all around and

a lot of stuff. I was trying to apply for a loan to do

something. I didn't get any loan because my name is, you

know, all around the news and Google. And so they closed my

account at the bank.



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R. RAVENEL: Thank you, Your Honor.

THE COURT: What country in the former Yugoslavia

are you from?

THE JUROR: I was born in Croatia.

THE COURT: Croatia.

s. Hawkins.

CROSS-EXAMINATION

BY S. HAWKINS:

Q. Good morning.

A. Good morning.

Q. Isn't it true that you continued to work for r.

Diveroli long after the negative publicity?

A. I don't understand your question. After. . .

Q. Well, you said there was negative publicity or you

suffered some negative consequences because you worked for

r. Diveroli. Isn't it true that you continued to work for

him after the negative publicity, right into 2008?

A. I start working for Efraim Diveroli in 2008.

Q. And how long did you work for him?

A. Until 2010.

Q. Until 2010, right? And that's after he was arrested?

A. Yes.

Q. You continued to work for him?

A. No. I got fired after he got arrested.

Q. Now, how much was he paying you a week?



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A. Four seventy-five a week.

Q. Wasn't he paying you a thousand dollars a week even when

there was no work for you?

A. That was last month he start paying me, like, a thousand

dollars a week.

Q. Did he pay over $10,000 for a family funeral in Bosnia?

A. Yes, ma'am.

Q. And helped to support your family over there for years?

A. Yes.

Q. And supported your family because your father was in

prison?

A. Yes. It's not all that. He actually never paid me.

Q. I'm sorry. I haven't actually asked you a question.

You answered my question. Thank you.

A. Okay. Sorry.

Q. When you were the president of Pinnacle, you said that

you were doing work for Pinnacle, correct?

A. Yes, ma'am.

Q. And that was a minerals company?

A. Yes.

Q. And that was a real company, wasn't it?

A. Yes.

Q. Isn't it true that you married a woman in order to give

her papers to stay in the United States?

A. No.



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Q. In order for you to have papers to stay in the United

States?

A. No.

Q. Didn't you talk -- didn't the agents ask you about that

when you were interviewed by the A.T.F. agents?

A. Yes.

Q. How much older was she than you?

A. No matter.

Q. How much older was she than you?

A. Fifteen years.

Q. And didn't you divorce shortly thereafter?

A. I divorce her, like, six year after, five year after.

Q. And you deny that that was a marriage that was just for

the sake of getting your papers?

A. This is not true.

Q. Didn't you tell people that that's why you were married

to her, just so you could get papers?

A. Never.

S. HAWKINS: No further questions.

THE COURT: Redirect?

R. RAVENEL: I have nothing further.

Thank you very much. You can come down.

THE COURT: All right. Thank you, sir.

R. RAVENEL: The next witness is Daniel O'Kelly.

He's a special agent with A.T.F.



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32

DANIEL O'KELLY,


follows:


seated.

R. RAVENEL: ay I approach, Your Honor?

THE COURT: You may.

DIRECT EXAMINATION

BY R. RAVENEL:

Q. Please state your name.

A. Daniel O'Kelly.

Q. Is that the common spelling for your first and last

name?

A. Yes.

Q. What do you do for a living?

A. I'm an A.T.F. agent.

Q. You might need to speak up a little bit into the

microphone.

How long have you been an A.T.F. agent?

A. Twenty-three years.

Q. Did you have any prior law enforcement experience before

that?

A. I was a police officer for ten years prior.

Q. What state was that in?

A. The state of Indiana.



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Q. Would you describe your career with A.T.F., what sort of

cases you've worked and what your specialty is.

A. I'm a firearms specialist and I have quite a bit of

experience doing undercover work.

Q. Can you describe your experience with firearms as a

firearms specialist?

A. I am a lifelong student of firearm history and design.

I've been everything from -- prior to law enforcement, I was

a gun store clerk to being a firearm instructor with the

police department to having taught firearm technology

internationally in the academies in Africa and Europe.

I have taught at the A.T.F. academy for years.

I was on staff at the A.T.F. academy for five years, teaching

firearm technology; and I teach interstate nexus to A.T.F.

agents nationwide. I put on seminars on firearm technology

for police officers across the state of Florida regularly.

Q. During the course of your duties did you come to know a

person by the name of Efraim Diveroli?

A. Yes.

Q. Do you see him in court today?

A. Yes, I do.

Q. Please point him out.

A. He's at the defense table in the red jumpsuit.

R. RAVENEL: The record should reflect the witness

identified the defendant.



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THE COURT: So noted.

BY R. RAVENEL:

Q. Were you involved in the investigation of Efraim

Diveroli in the iddle District of Florida?

A. Yes.

Q. What was your role?

A. I played an undercover role as a firearm dealer.

Q. When did your investigation or your role in the

investigation begin?

A. July of 2010.

Q. During the course of your investigation, did you have

recorded conversations with r. Diveroli?

A. Yes, I did.

Q. Was there a mention of shooting firearms during this

conversation?

A. Yes, there was.

Q. Who initially brought up the idea of shooting firearms?

A. Efraim Diveroli did.

Q. Would you describe that to the Court.

A. It was the second, maybe third time we spoke by phone,

discussing these ammunition magazines and the sale of

ammunition to me by him. He asked what I was doing this

coming weekend. I responded that I had tenant issues with my

rental property and that I was planning to attend the gun

show in Stark, Florida, and asked him why he had asked. He



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said, well, he'd like to know if "you'd come down and shoot

with us. Bring some of your guns and we'll go shooting."

Q. Did you go down and shoot with them?

A. No, I did not.

Q. Did he also describe shooting firearms in other

conversations you had with him?

A. Yes, he did.

Q. Would you describe that for the Court.

A. He told me at one point by phone that they -- "they,"

referring to he and his co-workers -- had gone to the

Everglades and had been shooting at deer, hogs, alligators,

just shooting in general, and that they had been to some

other range.

Q. Were you involved in the operation on August 20th of

2010?

A. Yes.

Q. Where did that operation take place with regards to this

case?

A. I'm trying to refresh my memory. That was the date of

the arrest, I believe?

Q. Yes, sir.

A. That took place in the parking lot of a Target store,

which is also the parking lot of a Quiznos sandwich shop in,

I believe it's Titusville.

Q. Why was that location selected for the operation,



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36

Titusville?

A. It was near the business of a cooperating source that we

were supposed to meet with that day, at least I led him to

believe that we were supposed to meet with this cooperating

source at the business. The real purpose of the meeting was

to make an arrest.

Q. Was there a discussion about having the meeting in

iami?

A. Yes, at one point.

Q. What was your response to that and why did you respond

how you did?

A. Well, Diveroli wanted to know if myself and the

cooperating source would travel to iami for him to present

his product to the source for the purpose of the source

deciding to endorse it and sell it nationally or

internationally.

And I said, you know, "This guy is a multi-

millionaire. He owns a huge corporation." I said, "He

doesn't know you." I said, "I don't really know you that

well. You know, we've seen one sample of your product and,

yeah, it works fine; but," I said, "you're going to need to

travel up here to him. He's not going to travel down to you

on some unsure possible wild goose chase. You know, you need

to come to where he is. You want his business."

Q. What was the tactical reason behind doing that, behind



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responding that way?

A. Well, for starters, it was the common-sense approach

that sounded realistic and we were doing the investigation in

the iddle District of Florida.

Q. Did you believe it would have been realistic for a

multi-millionaire owner of a company to travel to a person,

an unknown person essentially, to engage in a business --

A. No, not at all.

Q. Before August 20th, did you have discussions with r.

Diveroli about shooting firearms on the 20th?

A. Yes.

Q. On the 20th of August, did you bring firearms to the

meeting with r. Diveroli in Titusville?

A. Yes, I did.

Q. What firearms did you bring?

A. I brought three. The first is an F AP manufactured

rifle called a model FSL. It's -- in normal recognizable

terms, it's a variant of an FAL-type rifle. It's a .30

caliber, 20-shot assault rifle, a very high-powered weapon.

I also brought a Steyr model USR or also known

as an AUG. It's the Austrian military rifle to date. It's a

.223 caliber, 30-shot, semi-automatic assault weapon.

And I brought a Glock pistol, which is a

nine-millimeter, 17-shot firearm, semi-automatic pistol.

Q. Why did you bring those three firearms? Why did you



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select those type of firearms?

A. Because they were the type of firearms that he -- and

the calibers that he had indicated he had ammunition

available for, that he had magazines that would fit that type

of gun. During this whole investigation, the only kind of

guns that were ever discussed were semi-automatic assault

weapon-type firearms such as AR-15s, AK47s, that kind of

firearm. And I did not want to bring -- of the things I had

available as props, I did not want to manufacture, you know,

a higher situation by bringing machine guns or anything. So

I brought semi automatics.

I could have brought -- I had full automatic

AK47s. I had full auto -16s and other things I could have

brought; but rather than try to extenuate the circumstance, I

brought these as being reasonable.

THE COURT: Why did you bring the Glock?

THE WITNESS: The Glock is also a semi-automatic

firearm.

THE COURT: But it's not an assault weapon. It's a

normal -- I mean, it's something used by law enforcement.

It's not an assault rifle.

THE WITNESS: Yes, sir. I brought the Glock

because it's something I have seen these snail drum magazines

made for on the Internet and because it's a common pistol.

THE COURT: Okay.



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BY R. RAVENEL:

Q. Were -- each of these firearms, did they qualify as a

firearm under federal law?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Did you also bring magazines as well?

A. Yes, I did.

Q. What size were the magazines for the weapons?

A. The magazine for the F AP is a 20-round, 20-shot

magazine. The magazine for the Steyr is a 30-shot, and the

Glock magazine is a 17-shot.

Q. Where were the magazines located in your truck? You

pulled up in a truck; is that correct?

A. A pickup truck, yes, with the extended cab, meaning that

behind the two front seats, it has the small fold-down seats

for children or whatever. It's not a complete back seat.

And it has the false rear doors. In other words, you open

the driver's door and that exposes a hidden lever. You pop

that lever and a half-door then opens in the opposite

direction, like a suicide-type door, so you can see the area

behind the driver's seat. And these three firearms were

lying on the floor behind the driver's seat along with the

magazines.

Q. What's the proximity between the magazines and the

firearms?

A. They were touching. They were just lying in a pile.



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They were not in cases.

Q. Why did you decide to bring the magazines as well as the

firearms?

A. Because the idea for bringing the firearms was to shoot

them; and without magazines, they would be one-shot firearms.

You can't fire them more than one shot at a time without

physically reloading the chamber each time, if you don't have

a magazine. Its just part and parcel of a firearm.

Q. Did you bring those magazines for the purpose of

enhancing r. Diveroli's sentencing guidelines or anything

like that?

A. No. They're the size -- they're the standard size

magazines that go with those three firearms.

Q. At some point did you and r. Diveroli have a

conversation about shooting firearms?

A. Yes.

Q. Where were you located when you had that conversation?

A. Prior to arriving at this parking lot or on that day?

Q. On that day.

A. We were standing on the sidewalk outside the Quiznos

sandwich shop and -- that's where we were. Do you want to

know the essence of the conversation or just where we were?

Q. How far away from the truck were you?

A. Twenty-five yards.

Q. Did you mention to r. Diveroli that you had firearms in



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the truck?

A. When he asked. After -- in response to him asking did I

bring firearms, I said, "Yes."

Q. At some point did you go over to the truck?

A. After he asked and I said, "Yes, I brought them," he

said, "Let me see them," and we walked over to the truck. I

opened the doors and pointed, standing outside the swing

radius of the doors, just pointed to them and at that point

he reached in and picked up the Glock and started

manipulating the slide, working the slide back and forth,

examining the firearm.

Q. At some point did you leave the truck after that?

A. Yes. Within two minutes of conversation about the guns,

I shut the doors, locked the truck and we walked back over to

Quiznos where the other gentlemen were.

Q. What happened next?

A. The other gentlemen came out of the Quiznos and engaged

us in just chitchat.

And after a minute or so, Efraim again said,

"Hey, you guys want to look at this. Look at what he

brought," and walked us back over to the truck, at which

point I swung the doors open and pointed, just like the first

time, and at this point Efraim reached in and picked up the

FMAP rifle and started working the action on it and

demonstrating it for everyone.



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Q. I want to show you Exhibit 4. I handed it to you before

you began testifying.

A. Yes.

Q. Do you recognize that?

A. Yes. This is a photograph of the actual F AP that I

took with me that day.

Q. Are there several photographs actually as part of that

exhibit?

A. The next photograph is the Glock and the third one is

the Steyr AUG that I took with me that day and the magazines

that go with them.

Q. Do those photographs fairly and accurately depict how

the firearms appeared on August 20th of 2010?

A. Yes, they're exactly the same.

R. RAVENEL: ove to admit Exhibit 4.


R. RAVENEL: And publish that.

THE COURT: All right. 4 is admitted.

R. RAVENEL: Publish the first photograph.

BY R. RAVENEL:

Q. What does this photograph show? This is Bates number

1392.

A. That's the FMAP rifle.

Q. The next photograph is 1393, is the number Bates number

on the bottom right.



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A. That's the Glock odel 17 that I took with me that day.

Q. And the next photograph is 1397.

A. And that's the Steyr that I took that day.

Q. The magazines, are those the same magazines that are

depicted in those photographs that you took that day?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. I want to show you next Exhibit 5. That's already been

admitted. If we can show you that on the TV screen. What is

that photograph of?

A. That is a KCI-manufactured 100-round .223-caliber snail

drum magazine, the -- one of the ones that were provided by

Efraim during the investigation.

Q. Next I want to show you Exhibit 2. What type of firearm

is that?

A. That's one of the variants of the AR-15-style rifle.

That's similar to the same model that the U.S. military uses

and which A.T.F. is issued for enforcement operations.

Q. Are you aware of what size magazine that firearm is

capable of accepting?

A. It will accept anything from a 20-round magazine to a

100-round magazine.

Q. I have no further questions. Thank you.

THE COURT: All right. s. Hawkins.

CROSS-EXAMINATION

BY S. HAWKINS:



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44

Q. Good morning.

A. Good morning.

Q. How many times did Efraim Diveroli tell you that he did

not want to come to the iddle District of Florida?

A. At least once. I don't recall a number.

Q. You don't recall three times?

A. It could have been three times.

Q. It could have been at least three times, couldn't it?

A. I said yes.

Q. And he told you that he had -- he could only come as far

north as Jupiter; do you recall that?

A. At one point he said he could not come outside of the

iami area.

Q. Did you remember him saying specifically he could only

go as far north as Jupiter on any of the recordings?

A. There was one conversation where he named a

jurisdictional city, a line of some kind, and it may have

been Jupiter, yes.

Q. And he told you that he had been prosecuted, that he no

longer had a license, a federal firearms license, right?

A. He told me that.

Q. And you knew that he was out on bond on that case,

didn't you?

A. Yes, I did.

Q. And you knew that if you got him to come north of



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Jupiter into Brevard County, that he would be violating that

bond, correct?

A. I knew that.

Q. And yet you still told him at least three times when he

said no, that you wanted him to come to the iddle District

of Florida, didn't you?

A. Actually, no. ore specifically, I told him if he

wanted to meet the connection I had in the gun industry who

may be interested in doing what he wanted done, that he

needed to come to see that man, because that man was much too

high in the industry to come to him.

Q. That was r. Knight?

A. Yes.

Q. Knights Armament is a real company, correct?

A. Yes, it is.

Q. It's a legitimate, well-known company, correct?

A. Yes.

Q. And isn't it true that r. Diveroli was well known in

the armament community?

A. I couldn't tell you how well know he was in the armament

community. I'd never heard of him until this case started.

Q. Did you ask r. Knight whether or not he knew of Ammo

Works or A.E.Y. or r. Diveroli?

A. The name was brought up and, as I recall, he had never

heard of him.



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Q. Did you try to set up a meeting in Jupiter?

A. No.

Q. Isn't it correct that if you did not get r. Diveroli to

travel to Brevard County, you would not have venue to bring a

federal case against him?

R. RAVENEL: Objection; calls for a legal

conclusion.

THE COURT: Well, overruled.

A. What he was doing was illegal across the United States.

It doesn't matter where he was doing it.

Q. Was the case being run out of the iddle District of

Florida?

A. Yes.

Q. And isn't it true that in order for the iddle District

of Florida to prosecute him, you had to get him to come into

the iddle District of Florida?

A. I didn't care where he got prosecuted.

Q. At that time did you know where venue was for the iddle


A. Yes.

Q. And you knew that Brevard County was in the iddle

District?

A. Yes, I believe it is. It's not part of the area that my

office covers. So I can't swear that it is, but I believe

that it is.



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Q. What were you going to arrest him for on the 20th?

A. I wasn't going to arrest him.

Q. Was A.T.F. going to arrest him?

A. Yes.

Q. And what was he to be arrested for?

A. Being a felon in possession of firearms and ammunition.

Q. And at that time, had he been in possession of a firearm

in the iddle District of Florida before that meeting?

A. He said he was.

Q. Was that sufficient to prosecute him in the iddle


A. No.

Q. He never said he was in possession -- a felon in

possession of a firearm in the iddle District of Florida

prior to that day, did he?

A. He said he was a felon in possession of firearms and

ammunition in the Southern District.

Q. Right. But not in the iddle District, right?

A. He didn't admit that he had done that in the iddle

District, no.

Q. Right. So when you said that the purpose of the meeting

on August 20th was to arrest him, you didn't have anything to

arrest him for in the iddle District of Florida, did you?

A. We had, as the case agent had informed me, plans to also

charge him with international traffic and regulation under



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the ITAR Act.

Q. And had you made an examination of whether or not that

was a sustainable charge?

A. I wasn't the case agent. That wasn't my -- my role was

to be the undercover gun guy.

Q. And do you know whether or not he was ever charged with

that?

A. I don't believe he was.

Q. And do you know whether or not the U.S. Attorney's

Office had given approval to arrest r. Diveroli prior to the

August 20 transaction?

A. I wasn't aware of what was in the arrest warrant. I

wasn't the one serving it.

Q. Was there an arrest warrant on August 20th before you

went to meet with r. Diveroli? There wasn't, was there?

A. I can't swear that they were using a warrant or if they

were going to arrest him on probable cause.

Q. Well, you never saw an arrest warrant before that

meeting on August 20, did you?

A. No. I didn't need to.

Q. There wasn't probable cause until August 20th to arrest

him for anything in the iddle District, to your knowledge,

was there?

A. There was, according to the case agent.

Q. And you don't know whether the case agent had actually



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already spoken with the U.S. Attorney's Office for a probable

cause arrest; that's what you're saying?

A. That was outside the scope of my part of the

investigation.

Q. Well, I was just very interested, because you said that

the purpose of the meeting was to arrest him, and that's why

I don't understand that you don't know the answer to this

question of whether or not an arrest had been approved for

federal prosecution before the meeting.

A. Well, I would never expect that the case agent led me to

believe we're going to arrest him without legal ability to do

so.

Q. And what you actually arrested him for, what A.T.F.

actually arrested him for was for picking up the two guns

that you brought to the meeting, correct?

A. I couldn't tell you what he was arrested for that day

because that was being directed by the U.S. Attorney's Office

in correspondence with the case agent. y job was to glean

information from this man by talking to him about what he was

doing, what he was willing to do, what he had done. I had

nothing to do with the arrest.

Q. So I take it you're saying that you never reviewed the

Criminal Complaint against him for what happened that day?

A. I don't believe I did. I work in Tampa. The case was

being run out of office, a completely different supervisor, a



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completely different office, an hour an some minutes away

from where I work.

Q. Well, I understand that. Did you see the Complaint?

A. If I did read it, I do not have independent recall of

having read it at this point, because it really was not part

of what I was doing on the case. If I read it, it would have

been just for personal interest. I don't believe I did.

Q. Well, Tampa is in the iddle District of Florida, too,

isn't it?

A. Yes.

Q. So you do know what the iddle District of Florida

encompasses, don't you?

A. The entire boundaries of it, no, because I don't cover

the whole iddle District. y office covers Citrus County

down to Collier County and east to include Polk County.

Outside of that, the rest of the iddle District is covered

by at least two other offices that I know of.

Q. Did you have discussions with the case agent about

getting r. Diveroli to come up to the iddle District, to

Brevard County?

A. Yes.

Q. And that was so that you could have venue in the iddle

District of Florida, wasn't it? Did he say that?

A. No. It was to maintain realism in the investigation, my

undercover role.



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Q. It had nothing to do with venue? Are you saying that

was not discussed?

A. The issue of venue was brought up that --

Q. Right, because you couldn't have arrested him for what

he did in the Southern District, right, or Agent cCann

couldn't have?

A. That's, again, a legal question. I don't know.

Q. Well, come on. You make arrests. You know whether

they're authorized or not.

A. You can arrest people for violating the law across the

United States.

Q. I'm sorry. I'm not done with my question.

A. Well, you didn't let me finish my answer, either, from

the prior question.

THE COURT: That's correct, s. Hawkins.

S. HAWKINS: I'm sorry. I thought he was

finished.

THE COURT: If you're going to interrupt him, he's

going to interrupt you; and I won't hear a thing either one

of you say.

S. HAWKINS: Well, I'm sorry, Your Honor. I

thought he was finished.

BY S. HAWKINS:

Q. Go ahead.

THE COURT: Well, I didn't think he was finished,



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and he obviously wasn't finished. So let's try to at least

wait for his answer.

A. I can arrest somebody for violating any federal law

anyplace in the United States or its territories.

Q. So you are aware of what it takes to make an arrest?

A. Certainly.

Q. And you are aware that in order to make an arrest in the

iddle District of Florida and to bring a case for

prosecution in the iddle District of Florida, you would have

to get authorization by the Assistant U.S. Attorney in charge

of that investigation, correct?

R. RAVENEL: Objection.

THE COURT: Sustained.

BY S. HAWKINS:

Q. You know that you have to have probable cause for an

arrest?

A. Unless you have a warrant, yes.

Q. And then you have to bring that case before the court in

that district, in that federal district?

A. Yes.

Q. So when you talked about venue with Agent cCann, the

case agent, you were aware of this situation that r.

Diveroli, in order to be prosecuted in the iddle District,

would need to be arrested in the iddle District, correct?

A. Was I aware that that was -- I'm not sure I'm clear on



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your question.

Q. I'm asking you, in terms of your discussions with Agent

cCann, didn't you all discuss the fact that he had -- r.

Diveroli would have to be arrested in the iddle District of

Florida in order for him to be prosecuted in the iddle


THE COURT: Well, I don't think that's a correct

statement of the law. You're telling me that in order to

prosecute someone in the iddle District, you have to arrest

him here? I see a lot of people that aren't arrested here.

S. HAWKINS: I'll rephrase that.

BY S. HAWKINS:

Q. Based on authorization to prosecute in the iddle

District of Florida, did you discuss with Agent cCann that

he would like the arrest to happen in Brevard County?

A. We discussed where the arrest was going to happen.

He -- I don't think he had a concern with where it had to

happen.

Q. And did --

A. You're asking --

Q. -- you discuss with him that r. Diveroli would need to

commit some kind of crime in the iddle District of Florida

in order for it to be prosecuted under his case?

A. In an investigation, you -- I mean, I'm not clear on

where you're going with this. I'm trying to answer your



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question.

When you're doing an investigation in an

undercover capacity, with or without yourself also being the

case agent, you provide opportunity for a defendant to commit

a violation; and if they commit that violation, you document

it. You continue to correspond with the prosecutor as to how

much further you want to allow the guy to go before you make

an arrest.

At the time you're going to make an arrest, you

take leadership from the U.S. Attorney on whether you're

going to do it on complaint, probable cause, warrant, what

have you. And that's the process we followed.

Q. I'm asking you if you had a discussion with the case

agent about r. Diveroli committing a criminal act in the

iddle District and having him being arrested in the iddle

District so that Agent cCann could handle the case in the

iddle District?

R. RAVENEL: Asked and answered.

THE COURT: Well, let's try to answer it and move

on.

A. I did have discussions with Agent cCann about what

Diveroli was doing. I did have discussions with Agent cCann

that confirmed the fact that if an arrest was made, it would

be prosecuted in the iddle District, because that's where he

and I work.



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Q. Now, you told r. Diveroli that you were a licensed

firearms dealer?

A. Yes.

Q. And at one point when he was talking to you about

ammunition, did he not explain to you that he no longer was

in that business and did not want to be in that business

anymore?

A. r. Diveroli made a practice of contradicting himself

within the same sentence so many times that he came off

like -- I don't want to use a cliche about salesmen, but he

would tell you in one breath that, as is recorded on our

phone calls, which I have reviewed many times and it's very

fresh in my mind, he said in one phone call that he does

this, in other words, this representing companies in the sale

of firearm-related products and ammunition, for, quote,

"three or four different companies," and within the same

breath said that "I do this just for my company."

Q. Do you want to hear my question again?

A. Sure.

Q. Yeah. Did he tell you on the recordings that he was no

longer selling ammunition directly?

A. Well, he made that statement at one point and then

contradicted it within minutes.

Q. And did he tell you that he was acting as a consultant?

A. He made that statement.



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Q. Did he tell you that because of the legal problem he

had, he no longer wanted to be in the weapons, firearms, any

kind of business at all?

A. He made that statement and then contradicted it.

Q. And then did he tell you that you should talk with Aaron

on the ammunition, that he's not going to be working on that

anymore?

A. He made that statement and then continued to talk to me

about ammunition, because Aaron wasn't able to provide the

information I needed. He continued --

Q. I'm sorry. I haven't asked you a question yet. Did he

tell you that, quote, "I'm not -- I'm not doing that well the

last couple of years, and I've been trying to get out of that

business, the ammunition business, and into other ventures"?

Do you recall him telling you that?

A. Yes. That was about the same conversation where he

said, "Once a gun runner, always a gun runner."

Q. And then he laughed, right, and said, "Just kidding"?

A. I think he laughed and -- I don't recall if he said,

"Just kidding."

Q. Because he wasn't running guns in the deal with you, was

he?

A. He wasn't selling me any firearms.

Q. Actually, what he was trying to do was set up a deal to

have these magazines branded by Knights Armament, correct?



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A. Correct.

Q. And that's what he told you several times during your

conversations with him, that he didn't care about this other

stuff, any ammunition, that that was the deal that he was

interested in?

A. He told me he'd give me a pallet of ammunition without

even paying for it.

Q. Do you understand my question?

A. Yes. And your question was is he not involved in

firearms --

Q. I asked you --

A. -- any more and ammunition.

Q. I asked you, sir, if he told you that he was not

interested in those other things, that what he was really

interested in doing was getting these drums branded, correct?

A. That answer is no.

Q. Did he not tell you before he traveled up in August to

the iddle District that when you were discussing guns, that

he said, you know, "I'm not up there to play with toys; I'm

up here to make a business deal"? Do you not recall that

conversation?

A. I do.

Q. Where in your report does it say that you had the

magazines with the firearms on August 20th?

A. I don't know if it does.



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Q. It doesn't, does it?

A. I don't know if it does. I don't have it in front of

me.

Q. I'm sorry. I thought you reviewed -- you reviewed the

tapes, yes?

A. I reviewed a lot of stuff, yes.

Q. Did you review your reports?

A. Yes.

Q. It's not in there that you brought any magazines on the

20th of August, is it?

A. If you say so.

Q. You don't recall?

A. No, I don't.

Q. And it's -- have you looked at the Plea Agreement that

r. Diveroli signed?

A. I did read it.

Q. You read the factual basis, the stipulated facts portion

where it lays out the whole case for, like, 20 pages?

A. I read the whole thing.

Q. It doesn't say anything about you bringing magazines to

the iddle District of Florida on August 20th, does it?

A. I didn't write that.

Q. Does it say anything about you bringing magazines to

iddle Florida on August 20th?

A. I don't have it memorized. It may not.



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Q. And maybe that's because you didn't put it in your

report?

A. It may be because I didn't put it in my report. If it's

not in my report, I took magazines.

Q. You didn't take any pictures either, did you?

A. What?

Q. Pictures in the car that day?

A. No.

Q. So there's nothing in your report that you brought

magazines on August 20th, there's nothing in the stipulated

facts of the Plea Agreement, there are no photographs of any

magazines in the back of your truck that day, basically?

A. There are no photographs of any guns in my car either.

Q. But it'

efraim diveroli: transcript of sentencing day one - 8-23-11 - gun charge

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