33 Alondra Road, Santa Fe, NM 87508 • (505) 470-6797Editor@TerraNovaBooks.com • www.TerraNovaBooks.com

Tell us a little about The Scourge andhow the idea for the book occurred to you.

I don’t remember exactly how theidea for The Scourge came to me. Ihad just finished writing a longhistorical novel, which had takenme ten years, and I wanted to writesomething less demanding. Ithought a murder mystery in aWestern setting might engage myimagination. During the 1980s and’90s, I had visited on severaloccasions the small Montana townof Augusta on the RockyMountain Front on my way intoand out of the Bob Marshall Wilderness, andsomehow that became the setting of the story. Ichanged the name of the town to Clark City, andaltered other details there to suit my purposes. But itis still basically the town of Augusta.

Also the election of 2000 and the ensuing war withIraq had set me against the hawkish attitudes of Bushand the capitalistic interests that supported him. I usedRandall Turrentine to represent the worst aspects ofcapitalism in the U.S. and his wife, Lila, to embody thedepravity of much of the entertainment industry.Turrentine and Lila remain attractive in certain waysdespite the evil they represent—as is often true in thereal world. As for the Scourge, Dimitri, I don’t knowwhere he came from exactly. Flannery O’Connor,whose fiction I had taught for years, uses scourges inher stories, particularly in “A Good Man Is Hard toFind” and “Good Country People.” I knew that theidea came to her from the Book of Isaiah. So I read

Isaiah carefully, and a lot ofcommentary on the concept ofscourges. I made Dimitri a monsterto heighten the drama and violenceof the novel. My concern withenvironmental issues is also evident.All of these ideas and interestssomehow came together as I wrotethe story. As many writers andartists have stated before me, thework of art seems to preexist, andthe artist is merely discovering oruncovering what is already there.That sounds preternatural, I know.But it is really the way I feel aboutmy fiction.

All the characters certainly feel very live and human, but Ithink the ones that stay with the reader longest—as youprobably intended—are Jake and the Goon. How did theseindividuals develop in your mind?

Jake, like most of my protagonists, is an alter ego—certainly not me but a projected version of me inanother set of circumstances. Although the novel is aWestern, which is established in the first chapter withthe mention of Owen Wister’s The Virginian—Jake is aVirginian, and his companion Carleton is a NativeAmerican, as in many Westerns—I didn’t want it to bethe dichotomized “white hat, black hat” kind of story:I wanted him to have his faults and a burden of guilt todeal with even as he attempts to rid the Clark Citymilieu of the evil that has beset it.

Jake’s guilt derives primarily from his previousfailures as a husband and from his involvement in theVietnam war. These are the kinds of guilt that beset

Interview with Debut Novelist Keen Butterworth, author of The Scourge

nearly all people, but Jake is of a nature that isparticularly sensitive to these personal faults,especially in regard to the death of his wife, Laura,from which he profited monetarily, and hisparticularized and generalized guilt incurred duringhis involvement in the war in Vietnam. In otherwords, I wanted him to be a flawed human, but notin the same way that Turrentine and Lila representevil. Their evil is intentional, and they don’t seem tofeel any guilt because of it. Jake is also well-educatedand a thinker, so he can reflect on his experiences onmany levels, giving the novel a breadth and depththat wouldn’t be possible with a less-astute narrator. Ideveloped Gwen’s character on the same principles.

Dimitri, the Scourge character, is of an entirelydifferent order. The mode of the novel is tragicomic:The “good” characters are placed in dangeroussituations and their lives are threatened, but in the end,only the “bad” characters die. Although tragicomedywas a popular mode in Renaissance drama, it has not

been favored in modern times—particularly in thetwentieth and twenty-first centuries, because modernaudiences consider it “unrealistic.” However, one ofmy favorite novels, William Styron’s Set This House onFire, is tragicomic, so I decided to cast my novel in thatmode. Now, in tragicomedy, the villain is not usually afully developed human being but more a symbol orembodiment of evil. Dimitri’s origins are obscure, butthey are in keeping with the scourge forces in theBook of Isaiah. Although I don’t explain the Isaiahparallels in the text of the novel, there are hints in thetitle and the epigraph about what he represents and hisunconscious purpose: to rid the Montana communityof evil. He is a moral force although he is completelyunaware of that role.

Writers all have their own particular ways of working. You’vebeen writing almost your entire life. What has turned out to bethe process that works best for you in terms of the balancebetween planning where you’re going and writing moreextemporaneously? Does this change for fiction or non-fiction?

I have no really conscious program for writing. I usedto have considerable “writer’s block” when I waswriting criticism because I never worked out criticalproblems until I was actually writing an article orbook. [I usually read fiction for the story and try tostay away from critical assessment until I have finishedthe work and had time to mull over the structure anddetails. And I try to avoid imposing a particular criticalapproach (e.g., Freudian, Structuralist) on the story.]

The ideas must arise out of the story itself. However, Idon’t have full access to them until I start writing;then they begin to become clear. Writing fiction orpoetry is different. I get an idea for a story and try tointernalize that germ. I think that frequently, thestories begin to write themselves in my unconscious,but I can’t start to write until I have some idea howthe story will end. Once I begin to write the story,however, the details fall into place. I always avoidtrying to “force” a story; it must develop itselfnaturally. Thus, I hardly ever revise a story in anymajor way; my revisions entail minor excisions andadditions and perfecting individual sentences andparagraphs. Occasionally a story gets out of hand as Iwrite it because I am too emotionally engaged in thematerial. When that happens, I have to put the storyaside and come back to it later—and completelyrewrite it.

A novel byKeen Butterworth

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My extensive reading in world literature affects mywriting in several ways, but I stay away from imitatingother writers. The accumulated force of tradition,however, must shape the way I look at certainmaterials and the way I use them. Style, any seriousstyle, I think, is an extension of literary tradition—going all the way back to Gilgamesh, Homer, the Bible,and Greek drama. What we add to tradition is slight,but that is what is “creative.” Also, how we integratethe various strands of tradition in our writing is“individual” and “creative.”

Writing non-fiction is similar to writing fiction inthat we are bringing our same creative faculties tobear on the material. There is, however, a basicstructure and a set of facts already in place. We canmanipulate that material in various ways—structuralrearrangement primarily—and provide a way oflooking at and understanding the material. Style isalso important because it influences the way readersreact to the material. In the end, however, there isnot much difference between writing fiction andcreative non-fiction. Fiction may begin with a made-up situation and story, but our own experience ofthe world dictates how we develop and inform thematerial. Non-fiction begins in actual experience,but as we manipulate the actual throughrearrangement, exaggeration, elimination, and soforth, it becomes a kind of fiction, quite differentfrom newspaper reporting.

Do you consider The Scourge primarily a “yarn”—aninteresting, entertaining narrative—or was there somethingmore—some idea/concept/worldview, for instance—that youwere aiming to convey to the reader?

Although I have always wanted my writing to havesubtextual content and extension, my primary concernhas been to tell a good story. If one has a coherentworldview, however, it inevitably becomes implicit inthe way the story develops, in imagery, metaphors, plotresolution, character interaction, symbols, and so forth.However, these elements must seem to the readernatural, not intrusive or at odds with the texture of thewriting. As Yeats said: “A line will take us hours maybe,yet if it does not seem a moment’s thought, all ourstitching and unstitching has been naught.” In TheScourge, a definite worldview and moral attitude areevident beneath the sometimes-chaotic flow of events.That is true of all good writing, I think.

To what extent did the story end up going where you thoughtit would vs. (as happens sometimes) the characters takingcontrol and making the author go where they wanted?

That’s a difficult question to answer because I usuallyhave the whole story in my head before I begin towrite. As I said above, I can’t begin writing a storyuntil it is essentially complete in my imagination. Thedetails of a story must be chosen with an idea of wherethe story is going and its projected meaning—else thestory loses its coherence. One might say that the artistis a kind of god who has created a world in whicheverything is predestined in its larger aspects, but thecharacters have a certain freedom within thoseparameters. They often surprise me with their actionsand what they say. But their surprising behavior andideas are usually in keeping with my originalconceptions of their characters, even theirinconsistencies. I have tried to write stories before Ihave them complete in my head. That doesn’t work forme. They end up in the trash.

What would you say are the main reasons for someone to buyyour book—what would you hope they get out of it to maketheir purchase worthwhile?

First, the story. It is, I believe, a cracking good story,out at the edge of believability. So if the buyer likes anexciting adventure, The Scourge has that: There’sviolence, murder, and a good bit of sex. But beyondthe excitement and adventure, there’s love, the conflictbetween good and evil, an interaction of characters ofvarious types, and a solid moral center—no matterhow far individual characters deviate from that center.The writing is also concise and lively.

What projects are you currently working on?

I am revising a collection of short stories, which hastwo interconnected and unifying themes: therelationship between the animal and human worldsand the plight of modern Native Americans. Itconsists of seven central stories with two additionalstories as prologue and epilogue. Most of thesestories have been published in literary journals. I amalso in the midst of a novel about a professor whofalls in love with a student forty years his junior. Sherejects his suit at first but eventually marries him.The novel is developed through a series of shortstories that follow the couple’s relationship over anumber of years.

You’ve been involved in the world of writing for so long, bothas a creator and a “consumer” (so to speak). What advice orsuggestions could you offer for other writers in terms oftraining or process or inspiration or any other aspect? Whathelped you develop as a writer?

First, I don’t think “inspiration” can be taught. It issomething you have or don’t have. However, if youhave it, you probably won’t know unless you write.Then you discover whether you have it or not.Inspiration came to me late, in my forties when Ibegan to write seriously. I had tried my hand at fictionwriting earlier, and I developed a facility in terms ofstyle, but I had no stories that I was satisfied with. Inmy thirties and forties, I developed an interest inNative Americans, before and after European contact,and read voluminously in historical, ethnographic, andpersonal narratives. Then I decided to write aboutthem myself. A number of the stories were publishedin literary journals, but a number of them were not. SoI began writing novels. Although I could not find anagent in New York or elsewhere to represent me, Idecided to continue writing whether I got publishedor not. Writing was something I had to do. And Icontinue to write. The Scourge is my first publishedbook of fiction, and I hope it will lead to thepublication of my other work.

One of the necessary preparations for learning to writeis learning to read. Without a broad knowledge ofliterary tradition, you are writing in a vacuum. Youcan’t, however, learn to write by reading only; youmust learn through practice: writing and measuringyour work against the best work you have read.Teaching yourself to write is a very personal thing,however. Nobody can teach you to write. Writing

programs at the universities are good only in providingtime and an atmosphere that is conducive to writing.Those programs also provide an audience of fellowstudents and published writers who can provide youwith feedback. On the undergraduate level, I taughtmany workshops in non-fiction writing. We had atextbook that comprised some of the best essays everwritten in English. These were the models thatprovided the students with ideas for their own essays,which I had students read to the class, but I did notencourage students to criticize other students’ workbecause I don’t think most students at theundergraduate level have enough experience tocriticize constructively. Instead I had a conference witheach student after each essay—during which Icommented on their style and content and askedquestions about their intent.

Even though I was director of the graduate MFAprogram, I would not conduct workshops, which I donot like at the graduate level: I left those to thewriters-in-residence—James Dickey, Kwame Dawes,Jeanette Turner Hospital, Ben Greer. I did, however,teach several of the best students in one-on-one,independent-study sessions. We met once a week fortwo hours. Each week the student read a classic novel[Moll Flanders, Great Expectations, Madame Bovary, AnnaKarenina, Heart of Darkness, The Sun Also Rises, TheGreat Gatsby, Absalom, Absalom! etc.]. We discussed theassigned novel and a writing project they had turnedin earlier in the week. I found this approach toteaching writing much more effective than workshops.

So: Reading, writing, and soliciting intelligentfeedback are the most effective means in learning howto write.

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