corruption and crime commission of western ... november...34 van der zanden, mr: yes, i do, if it...

05/11/20 WHYTE, R.P. 1

Epiq (Public Examination)

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part thereof, in any format) except with the prior written consent of the Commissioner of the Corruption and Crime Commission Act

is prohibited.

CORRUPTION AND CRIME COMMISSION

OF WESTERN AUSTRALIA

ACTING COMMISSIONER SCOTT ELLIS

TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS

AT PERTH ON THURSDAY, 5 NOVEMBER 2020, AT 2.16 PM

COUNSEL:

MS NADIA PANTANO

WITNESS: RONALD PETER WHYTE

WITNESS COUNSEL:

MR PETER VAN DER ZANDEN

05/11/20 WHYTE, R.P. 2


WHYTE, RONALD PETER CALLED AT 02.16 PM: 1

2

THE ACTING COMMISSIONER: Please be seated. 3

4

THE ASSOCIATE: The Commission is about to conduct a number 5

of examinations for the purposes of an investigation under 6

the Corruption, Crime and Misconduct Act 2003. The scope 7

and purpose of the Commission’s investigation is to determine 8

whether any current and/or former public officer or officers 9

from Landgate or Department of Communities, and/or its former 10

entities, engaged in serious misconduct by obtaining a 11

benefit for themselves or any other person, including but 12

not limited to whether funding from the former Department of 13

Housing intended for the Hamilton fly camp project was used 14

to purchase private residential property in Perth. Before 15

your examination begins, it is necessary for you to take an 16

oath. Please take the Bible and card in your right hand and 17

read the oath out loud. 18

19

WHYTE, RONALD PETER SWORN AT 02.17 PM: 20

21

THE ASSOCIATE: Thank you, you may be seated. 22

23

THE ACTING COMMISSIONER: Now, Mr Whyte, I see that you 24

have received and signed the copy of the notice to witnesses. 25

Is that correct?---Yes. 26

27

Thank you. I appoint Ms Pantano and Ms Tower as counsel 28

assisting the Commission. They will ask questions on my 29

behalf. 30

31

Mr Van Der Zanden, do you seek leave to appear? 32

33

VAN DER ZANDEN, MR: Yes, I do, if it may please you, sir. 34

35

THE ACTING COMMISSIONER: Thank you. Leave is granted. 36

37

Ms Pantano? 38

39

PANTANO, MS: Can you please state your full name?---Ronald 40

Peter Whyte. 41

42

And are you currently employed?---Yes. 43

44

In what capacity?---As the director of a company. 45

46

Yes? What’s the name of that company?---RP Interiors. 47

48

RP Interiors?---Interiors. 49

50

05/11/20 WHYTE, R.P. 3


Yes, and what do they do?---Do commercial office fitouts and 1

office refurbishments. 2

3

Okay?---And residential upgrades. 4

5

And how long have you been a director of that company for?-6

--To the best of my recollection, four years. 7

8

And what did you do prior to that?---Prior to that I ran a 9

business called Metal Components Proprietary Limited, and 10

also another company by the name of Mardale PCI. 11

12

And what did Metal Components do?---In the initial stages, 13

Metal Components was the distributor for a aluminium supply 14

company out of Sydney, or Somersby, in the office 15

partitioning industry. 16

17

Okay. And then later on? You said initially - - -?---18

Later on, with Mardale PC, back in 2000 we – I was approached 19

by a contact in the UK – or was approached by a person from 20

UK that wanted somebody to represent the business locally 21

that had already been trading, and if I could take over the 22

– just the overseeing of that company, in the government’s 23

role. 24

25

Do you hold any formal qualifications?---No. 26

27

And what is your relationship with Mr Paul Whyte?---Paul is 28

my older brother. 29

30

Okay. I just want to ask you about a couple of other 31

associations or relations that you have with some other 32

entities. Australian Civils, have you heard of them?---Yes, 33

I have. 34

35

And have you had, or any of your companies had, any 36

connection with Australian Civils?---Yes, we have. 37

38

In what capacity?---Australian Civils is a company that I 39

furnished an invoice to on behalf of my brother. 40

41

Okay. And was that Paul Whyte?---Yes. 42

43

Yes? Tell me about that?---Okay. Paul approached me. I 44

don’t – can’t recall exactly when, and he was in a manic 45

state and said to me that he needed to purchase a property 46

at 68 Johnston Street, and would – and just was manic and 47

was threatening in a way that he just said he would kill his 48

family if he couldn’t proceed with – with the sale. I have 49

no recollection that he had actually even bought the house, 50

05/11/20 WHYTE, R.P. 4


and he approached me and asked me whether one of my companies 1

would furnish Australian Civils an invoice. 2

3

For what – for what purpose?---What purpose? For the purpose 4

of purchasing the property. 5

6

So how would – how would he be able to purchase a property 7

if you furnished an invoice to Australian Civils?---Paul 8

said he basically believed in - he was saying that if I could 9

get – if I could do an invoice to Australian Civils – I can’t 10

quite recall how much it was for, but it was for a substantial 11

amount, and that the moneys would be paid into that account 12

and that Australian Civils would pay in that account, and 13

then when the money came, transfer it to another account. 14

At this stage, Paul was – was very bullying, very - 15

threatening me. 16

17

And you said earlier, and it may have been me hearing it 18

incorrectly, but I thought you said 68 Johnston Street?---19

I’m sorry, I don’t remember the number Johnston Street. I 20

do apologise. 21

22

Okay?---I know it was in Johnston Street, but - - - 23

24

In Mosman Park? Did you ultimately go through with that?--25

-I – I – I ultimately went through with it. 26

27

Okay. So did you draw up an invoice?---To the best of my 28

recollection – I can’t remember what – how the invoice was 29

done, and that is telling the truth, I don’t know exactly 30

what was actually – how the invoice was drawn up, or - - - 31

32

From(?)2.22.57 what company was it drawn?---It would have 33

been probably from Mardale PCI, Mardale. 34

35

Were you the sole director of that company?---To my best 36

recollection, I was, but I can’t confirm or deny; I’m not 37

quite sure. 38

39

At any time did Mardale, while you were involved, while you 40

were a director, did Mardale have any other directors?---In 41

Australia or - - - 42

43

In Australia?---Not that I was – not that I’m aware of, not 44

that I can remember. 45

46

Any other employees?---No, not through Mardale. 47

48

Okay. So do you recall whether you did in fact draw up an 49

invoice?---I can’t recall that I did, but I – whether I did 50

– honestly, I can’t recall if I did. 51

05/11/20 WHYTE, R.P. 5


1

So the company’s got no other directors in Australia, no 2

other employees, who else could have drawn up the invoice if 3

it wasn’t you?---It would have – I – to the best of my 4

recollection, I don’t know, I don’t know who could have drawn 5

it up. 6

7

Did you speak to anybody else about the fact that Paul had 8

asked you to do this?---At – that Paul had asked me to do 9

this? Did I speak to anybody about that? 10

11

Yes?---Just Paul and I. 12

13

Okay, so for all you knew, only you and Paul knew that he 14

had asked you to draw up an invoice?---As far as I was – my 15

best recollection is it was Paul discussing to me, advising 16

me. 17

18

Can I have 270 – sorry, actually before I have that – how 19

did you – sorry, did you end up providing Australian Civils 20

with an invoice?---I can’t recall, to be honest – I can’t 21

recall how the invoice went or what the amount was for. I 22

just can’t recall. 23

24

Did Australian Civils end up getting an invoice from you?--25

-I can’t – I can’t recall. I can’t recall how they got the 26

invoice. 27

28

But did they get an invoice from you?---I can’t – I can’t 29

recall. 30

31

You don’t know if they even got an invoice?---I don’t know. 32

I’ll be honest, I can’t recall. 33

34

But you know that Mr Whyte ended up purchasing Johnston 35

Street?---Correct. 36

37

Was a substantial amount of money withdrawn from the Mardale 38

bank account?---There was a substantial amount of money that 39

was withdrawn from the Mardale bank account. 40

41

For the purchase of Mr Whyte’s house?---Correct. 42

43

Right. So if an invoice wasn’t given to Australian Civils, 44

how else could the money have come out – well, sorry, rather 45

how could the money have come into Mardale’s bank account if 46

an invoice hadn’t been provided?---I wouldn’t – I wouldn’t 47

know. I don’t know. 48

49

05/11/20 WHYTE, R.P. 6


Who from Australian Civils were you dealing with in relation 1

to this?---I was dealing with my brother, Paul, and he was 2

dealing with Mr Mitchell, from what I could gather. 3

4

Did you speak to Mr Mitchell about this at all?---Not that 5

I can recall. 6

7

Did you have any email correspondence with Mr Mitchell about 8

this?---Not – not that I can recall. 9

10

Okay. I’ll show you some emails that might help you recall, 11

Mr Whyte. 12

13

Can I have 2702761^ please. 14

15

2702761^ 16

17

It’s an email titled Tender Contracts from Mr Andrew Mitchell 18

to [email protected]. Is that one of your email 19

addresses?---That’s correct, yes. 20

21

Okay. On 21 December 2012: 22

23

Ronnie, could you pass this on to Paul. Company seal will 24

be in my electrical meter box, right-hand side, as looking 25

at house. From original discussion and project parameters 26

already provided very confusing regarding – I just need you 27

amounts you want to put against each item in contract and 28

tender, each price for modules, services, total contact, 29

unit type A fabrication off site. 30

31

And it goes on to talk about various other items. 32

33

This is all changing and while I’m away not easy to provide 34

and commit. Our office has closed. As advised previously, 35

Steve will be available Monday only TBC. Please discuss and 36

advise. Need clarification Regards Andrew Mitchell. 37

38

What was this about?---I can’t recall even reading that – 39

this email. I don’t know anything about an electrical meter 40

box. 41

42

What’s he talking about? The title – sorry, the subject of 43

the email is Tender Contacts?---Contracts? 44

45

Some of the body of that email - - -?---I don’t know - I 46

don’t know how - - - 47

48

He says: 49

50

Ronnie, could you pass this on to Paul 51

05/11/20 WHYTE, R.P. 7


1

?---On to Paul. “The projects will be payments and 2

invoicing”. I don’t know what involvement I had in it. I 3

can’t recall. 4

5

Did you pass this on to Paul? Do you know?---I can’t recall 6

whether I did or I didn’t. I can’t recall. 7

8

Why was Andrew – what was your understanding of what 9

Mr Mitchell was emailing this to you?---I’ve got – I wouldn’t 10

know, I can’t recall why Paul - why this would have come to 11

– come to me to pass on to Paul. I don’t know what – the 12

background of it. I don’t know. 13

14

Perhaps if we can go to 2703878^? 15

16

2703878^ 17

18

It’s an email two days later from yourself - - -?---Mm hmm. 19

20

- - - to Andrew@Ausciv. 21

22

Andrew, this is the minimum paperwork necessary to get the 23

contract awarded - 24

25

- now, sorry, just before I go on, this is in response to 26

that initial email we just saw from Andrew to yourself?---27

Yeah. 28

29

Andrew, this is the minimum paperwork necessary to get the 30

contract awarded. It is the Australian standard contract 31

with amendments. I have reduced the paperwork to a bare 32

minimum to meet government requirements. The process is (1) 33

go to limited tender open from 21 December to 31 December 34

for the work. Ausmodular is on the short list of companies 35

to be approached for a bid. (2) Tenders will be evaluated 36

on 2 January. (3) Contract to be awarded first week of 37

January. 38

39

Now, from the information the Commission has obtained, we’re 40

aware that this is talking about the Hamilton fly 41

camp - - -?---Okay. 42

43

- - - tender, if that narrows it down for you. The email 44

goes on to say: 45

46

Should (say) we only get one compliant bid (for instance) 47

then we can proceed to contract and negotiations. To ensure 48

we get a compliant bid from Ausmodular we need responses to 49

questions and figures, where required, on the tender request, 50

which has been emailed to you. 51

05/11/20 WHYTE, R.P. 8


1

Then it talks about some additional detail in that paragraph, 2

and we go to the next paragraph: 3

4

The process I have put in place for this project has reduced 5

the paperwork significantly from the alternative option, 6

which is to go to full open tender, i.e. posted on Tenders 7

WA, and to go through the whole shooting match. 8

9

What you provided me with on the sheet of paper were total 10

figures and overall amounts. Anyway, I have used the 11

$10 million estimate to get approval, but this procurement 12

can be dealt with in a limited tender which can be sent out 13

over Xmas break to a few firms under my authority. I asked 14

for the bare minimum from the lawyers and Andrew MacLiver on 15

documentation, et cetera, that would still be compliant. 16

17

From what I got and what I’ve seen with similar tenders and 18

contracts, this appears to be a fairly basic set of drawings, 19

specifications and take-offs and should also protect the 20

contractor, but I appreciate that this may not be a turn-of-21

the-handle exercise whilst away overseas and was hoping that 22

you may have someone to complete on your behalf. 23

24

What we really need is something filled in against each of 25

the blanks on the tender and I can progress from there with 26

doing my evaluation and inserting these amounts in the 27

contract. As far as the final contract is concerned, there 28

are no doubt some clauses in the draft - 29

30

- sorry, “in the drat” – I’m assuming that’s meant to be 31

“draft” – 32

33

- that you received that we might want to adjust or amend, 34

but I have done the best to date to limit the big issues and 35

have them sorted out (i.e. like deleting the bank guarantee 36

clauses and maximising the first payment, et cetera. 37

38

He then goes on – you then go on to say some additional 39

comments. Do you recall sending this email, Mr Whyte?---I 40

recall nothing about this email to Andrew Mitchell. It shows 41

it from a hotmail account of mine, which is – and I can 42

assure that I - I didn’t write that email, but it’s - - - 43

44

How do you know – how can you assure me that you didn’t write 45

that email?---To be perfectly honest with you, it’s beyond 46

my scope to write – it’s beyond my intelligence to write 47

that email. 48

49

Who else had access to your Metal Components email?---My 50

Metal Components? 51

05/11/20 WHYTE, R.P. 9


1

Metal Components. The email address is 2

metalcomponents@hotmail?---Paul would have had access. 3

Yeah, Paul would have – would have – would have known my 4

passwords I would have thought. 5

6

Why? What makes you say that?---I’ve always emailed stuff 7

or things to Paul that virtually come up as from – from a 8

Hotmail, like as – because a lot of it doesn’t go through a 9

server, it sort of goes to a Hotmail account. 10

11

Sorry?---So - - - 12

13

Let me just get this right. You – are you saying you would 14

often just send emails from your Hotmail account to 15

Paul?---Yes. 16

17

Right?---Yeah. 18

19

How does that then flow - - -?---He – Paul - - - 20

21

How is the flow-on effect that he’s able to access your email 22

account, though?---To the best of my recollection, Paul would 23

know my passwords. 24

25

Did you give it to him?---I – to the best of my recollection 26

Paul would be aware of all my passwords. Paul was 27

controlling in – in respect to everything that – anything to 28

me personally. Like anything like this it was – I don’t 29

even remember even that being an email and I – I have never 30

even read it. 31

32

Did you – have you at any stage given Paul your passwords to 33

your emails, to any email accounts?---I wouldn’t – to my – 34

I cannot – can’t – I – he would know passwords to my email 35

accounts. 36

37

Okay. I’m trying to ascertain how would he know the 38

passwords to your email accounts?---Because he would have 39

asked me. He would have - - - 40

41

Okay?---And I would have – cos - - - 42

43

Why?--- - - - Paul knew every – well, Paul knew every facets 44

to my life, from growing up and everything. So - - - 45

46

Right?--- - - - he was - - - 47

48

Right. So why would Paul – why would – why did you – sorry, 49

did you give Paul your email passwords?---To my best 50

05/11/20 WHYTE, R.P. 10


recollection at some stage he would have had access to my 1

emails. 2

3

That’s not the question I’m asking you, though?---No? 4

What’s the question? 5

6

I’m asking you have you given Paul - - -?---I have given 7

Paul previous access to – to my email account. 8

9

And how have you given him access to your email 10

accounts?---To my – I cannot recall how I gave it to him. I 11

cannot recall. 12

13

Why have you given Paul access to your email accounts?---14

Because he – he’s my brother. He controlled my life. He 15

just - he just – it was – it was Paul. 16

17

“He was Paul” I’m sorry is not a satisfactory answer - - -18

?---Sorry. 19

20

- - - to my question. Why did Paul have access to your email 21

accounts?---I – I’d have – I – maybe to check on an email or 22

something. I’m not sure. I – I don’t know. I cannot - - - 23

24

You’ve said in the past that you would have given your email 25

passwords to Paul?---Yes. 26

27

I’m trying to ascertain for what purpose. Why?---I – I don’t 28

– I can’t – I can’t – I can’t work out why I would have – he 29

– cos Paul knew everything about my life. He - - - 30

31

Okay. Metal Components. Did Paul have any financial 32

interest in that company?---Not at – no. No. 33

34

Okay. So why then have you given him access to that email 35

account?---Once – he was my brother and he had access to 36

everything from virtually when – when we grew up he had 37

control over - - - 38

39

I’m understanding your answer that he had access. I’m trying 40

to understand why. They’re two different things?---I – I – 41

I wouldn’t – I – access to my email account? I – I can’t – 42

I can’t give you an answer. I don’t know an answer. 43

44

You don’t know why you’ve given your brother access to your 45

email accounts?---I can’t work out – no, I can’t work out 46

why I – well, I can – obviously that if he wanted to send an 47

email but I didn’t under – I didn’t – I don’t know why, or 48

just check on my emails or - - - 49

50

05/11/20 WHYTE, R.P. 11


Why would he need to check on your emails?---Well, I don’t 1

know. I – I can’t – I can’t recall why I did. I can’t 2

understand why. He – he was very controlling over the whole 3

family. He was controlling over myself and everything and 4

he wanted – he just had access to everything. 5

6

Did he have – you’ve already said he had no financial 7

interest in Metal Components. Did he play any role at all 8

in Metal Components?---Not in a working - he just – Paul – 9

no, had no – Paul’s working capacity of Metal Components. I 10

didn’t - gave him the – the email for Metal Components. I 11

– I – I can’t recall when I gave it to him and what he was 12

using it for and obviously - - - 13

14

I’m not asking you the exact date of when you gave it to 15

him?---Okay. 16

17

I appreciate this is some time ago and I understand you are 18

not going to recall that detail and I haven’t asked you when 19

you gave it to him. I’m trying to ascertain why at some 20

point - - -?---Point. 21

22

- - - you have given him access to your - - -?---I 23

don’t - - - 24

25

- - - Metal Components - - -?---I don’t want to try and 26

guess something that I’m not – that - - - 27

28

Did he have access to your [email protected] email 29

account?---I’m just trying to think if he – he wouldn’t have 30

– I don’t think he – from the best of my recollection I don’t 31

think he would have had access to that. 32

33

Okay. So what I’m trying to work out then, if we can scroll 34

down on this email - - -?---Mm hmm? 35

36

- - - you’ll see that the original email from andrew@ausciv 37

was sent to [email protected], subject “Tender 38

contracts”. That was that email that I just showed you - - -39

?---Yeah. 40

41

- - - just prior to this one?---Yep. 42

43

So in order to respond to that email, would have had to have 44

– someone would have had to have access to your 45

interform.net.au?---Any – any – all the emails that go in 46

for – to Interform go to Hotmail as well. 47

48

Automatically?---Yeah. 49

50

05/11/20 WHYTE, R.P. 12


Why is that?---Because the – when we set up the system that 1

was – it was a back-up in case emails - like that’s eight to 2

10 years ago when – if emails would go astray in the business 3

you – sometimes you just don’t get emails and at the time my 4

best recollection was the IT guys said we best to set 5

everything up so it goes to your Hotmail account because 6

everything – then you can have a copy of it. 7

8

Did Paul regularly use your email accounts to send 9

emails?---To my best recollection I can’t – I can’t recall 10

whether he did or he didn’t. 11

12

These are your email accounts, Mr Whyte?---Yeah, that’s 13

fine. Yeah, I - - - 14

15

And you don’t know whether somebody else is coming in and 16

using them?---It’s not somebody else, it’s my brother. 17

18

Yes, and that’s who I’m asking you about and you said you 19

didn’t know?---I – Paul – Paul had control over everything 20

and I just - - - 21

22

Why? Why did he have control over your personal business 23

email accounts?---I can’t answer that question. 24

25

Why not?---Because he would – I don’t – I – I can’t answer 26

why he would have. He would have – he had control over 27

everything. He – he would have known all the – every - - - 28

29

I’m not asking about everything else so I don’t want to 30

confuse you?---Yep. 31

32

I’m asking only about your business email accounts of which 33

you’ve said he had no interest in, as in the business?---34

Yeah. 35

36

So then what I’m asking you is and what I’m trying to 37

ascertain is then why he’s got access to your business email 38

accounts. Why did you give him access?---I can’t recall why 39

I gave him the access now. I just – he – he just – he was 40

Paul. I know - - - 41

42

Did he ask for access?---I can’t recall when he asked me for 43

access - - - 44

45

I didn’t ask you when. I said did he ask you for access at 46

some point?---Did he ask me? I – I can’t recall when he 47

did. I mean - - - 48

49

Again, Mr Whyte, I didn’t ask you when. I’m not asking you 50

for when this happened. I’m asking you whether or not at 51

05/11/20 WHYTE, R.P. 13


some point in the past did Mr Whyte – did Paul ask you for 1

him to be able to access your email accounts?---My short 2

answer is I can’t – I just can’t – I can’t recall. I can’t 3

– he – he – he may have. I’m not – I can’t quite remember. 4

He would have. He would have had to have because he’s used 5

it. 6

7

How do you know he’s used it?---Because I couldn’t write 8

that email. 9

10

How do you know it’s him?---Well, I don’t know who else - I 11

don’t know. I don’t know why it’s – I don’t know it’s from 12

Paul but it’s definitely not from me. 13

14

Who else had access to your email accounts?---Email accounts 15

then? Would have been my – my wife because it went to the 16

– to the Hotmail. And nobody else apart from that – that 17

was – that – anything that came to me went to – went to 18

Hotmail as well so, yeah, I’d think - my best recollection 19

is my wife would – would have been able to probably access 20

that email. 21

22

Okay. Do you think this is - - - 23

24

THE ACTING COMMISSIONER: When you say “that email”?---I 25

mean an email, like to - - - 26

27

Well, there’s various ones. So are we talking about this 28

email account?---Mm hmm. 29

30

Okay. Well, that’s a different email account from the 31

Hotmail account. Going in and being able to read the Hotmail 32

account doesn’t mean you can send emails - send emails - 33

from this account, does it?---It shows you the – you can 34

send emails from the Hotmail account if you type it in. 35

36

But this isn’t from the Hotmail account? 37

38

PANTANO, MS: This, sorry, the one on the screen is not 39

from the Hotmail, the one above is?---The one above it is. 40

41

THE ACTING COMMISSIONER: Okay. 42

43

PANTANO, MS: So is this something that your wife may have 44

drafted?---No. 45

46

So by a process of elimination it wasn’t you, it wasn’t your 47

wife. The only other person who had access to your email 48

account was Paul?---Correct. 49

50

05/11/20 WHYTE, R.P. 14


Okay. And you can’t answer why he had access to your business 1

email accounts?---To the Hotmail account? I - I can’t – I 2

can’t answer why because I – I don’t want to say something 3

– I don’t know why. I would have given it to him, obviously, 4

because he’s got it. 5

6

For a reason, though?---For a reason. 7

8

And that’s what I’m trying to ascertain?---I – I – well, I 9

would have had no reason why – why he wanted. To probably 10

send private emails, I’d imagine. I don’t know. 11

12

Well, we know he had his own private email 13

account?---Mm hmm. 14

15

So why would he need yours?---Well, obviously he didn’t want 16

to send anything from his private – I’m not saying obviously, 17

I’m just saying I don’t - - - 18

19

I want to know what you understand as to be the reason why 20

he had access to your personal email account?---He was my 21

brother. He – he had control over the family - over me and 22

any dealings, anything that I – even though I was – my 23

brother was – was – I might make it clear to you he was – 24

Paul – Paul was a – Paul virtually bullied – like told you 25

all the time that, you know, do this and do that or can you 26

give me – you know. But I don’t – can’t recall when I gave 27

it to him or when at some point, at some time – at some point 28

and probably I did give it to him but I can’t recall when I 29

did. 30

31

And again I’ll reiterate I’m not asking you when you gave 32

him access, simply asking why?---I – I can’t answer why. 33

34

What did you know of the Hamilton fly camp?---Hamilton fly 35

camp? 36

37

Mm hmm?---I – I don’t know the project. 38

39

You don’t know anything about it?---No, I – if you said to 40

me what it is, what is it, I – I don’t know what – I – I 41

can’t – I can’t (indistinct) about the project. 42

43

I’ve finished with that document, thank you. 44

45

Other than your Interform email address and the Metal 46

Components email address – sorry, I’ll rephrase that. Was 47

your Hotmail address the only email address that Paul had 48

access to, to your knowledge?---To my knowledge? 49

50

05/11/20 WHYTE, R.P. 15


Did you provide – sorry, I can rephrase that. Did you 1

provide him with access to any of your other email accounts?-2

--Not that I’m aware of. 3

4

So only to your Hotmail account?---You’ve asked me did I – 5

if he’s gained access onto my Hotmail account it would have 6

only been to my Hotmail account. 7

8

But have you provided him with access to any of your other 9

email accounts, other than Hotmail?---I’m just trying to 10

think. I’m just trying to think what other email accounts 11

I’ve got. It could – no – no, not – not to my best 12

recollection, no. 13

14

You said that – and just correct me, I believe you said he 15

didn’t have access to your Interform account, email account?-16

--Well, he would have through the Hotmail - - - 17

18

Yes, but not to get into – straight into the Interform email 19

account separately?---I can’t recall whether he could or he 20

couldn’t get into my – into – into the – into that account. 21

22

Did you give him access to any other account other than 23

Hotmail?---Once again, I can’t recall. He may have sent an 24

– he might have sent an email on behalf of himself from one 25

of my email accounts. 26

27

What I’m – what I’m asking you though, Mr Whyte, is did you 28

give him access to any other email accounts other than your 29

Hotmail account. So not whether he sent an email on your 30

behalf or on his behalf, I just want to know - - -?---I don’t 31

– I don’t – I don’t think he had access to any other account. 32

I don’t believe. To my best recollection I don’t believe. 33

I’m not - - - 34

35

Okay. Can I have 2704409(2.49.04), please? 36

37

2704409^ 38

39

PANTANO, MS: Title of – subject of this email is “Invoice 40

from Mardale Australia Proprietary Limited from Ron Whyte” 41

and this email address is m - - -?---It’s another Hotmail 42

account. 43

44

- - - @Bigpond.net.au?---That’s – it’s another – it’s 45

another of – of – it’s another Hotmail account. 46

47

Bigpond and Hotmail are different, Mr Whyte?---No, no, no. 48

It’s – it’s – that – that comes through from - you can access 49

as - on – like on your phone. So that’s – I know what you’re 50

saying, it’s a different account but it was all linked into 51

05/11/20 WHYTE, R.P. 16


checking all of our own emails and that – that one there 1

would have also been – if it wasn’t Hotmail it would have 2

been another account that looks like – it was a dot.net.au 3

account. 4

5

Yes. But it’s different to a Hotmail account. It’s a 6

different email address?---Yeah, it’s a different email but 7

it’s in the same – my understanding is it’s the same. You 8

can still access it. 9

10

But you can’t – are you trying to say that you can – you 11

could access that Bigpond email account through your Hotmail 12

account?---You could access – I don’t – know how it worked 13

but that email comes up as the same as – it either goes to 14

that one or it goes to another one. I’m not technically 15

driven and I don’t understand but I’ve got that – that comes 16

up also in – as a – as a – as a – as another email. I don’t 17

know how it ever came about but it was a – it would have – 18

it would have been set up from the IT guy, I imagine, just 19

as a foolproof so that it – it could go through from there. 20

21

I’m not following, so I’m going to have to ask you a couple 22

of questions just to clarify, Mr Whyte. So in relation to 23

the Interform email - - -?---Yeah. 24

25

- - - account you said that the way it was set up, that if 26

an email was sent to the Interform account - - -?---Yes. 27

28

- - - you – it would automatically go through to your Hotmail 29

account?---Correct. 30

31

So you could access your Interform emails - - -?---Correct. 32

33

- - - through your Hotmail address?---Mm hmm. 34

35

Email account, sorry. Okay? Are you saying that your 36

Bigpond emails were also in the same way? So if someone 37

sent an email to your Bigpond account that that, too, would 38

go through into – you could access through your Hotmail 39

account? Is that what you’re saying?---No. What I’m saying 40

is that the Metal Components account is separate than 41

Interform, had a foolproof or a Bigpond.net.au web check 42

again. So the Internet that we’d had for – it’d be 43

[email protected], keeping it separate from that 44

one but that foolproof one, that was meant as a back-up 45

server, the back-up that it’d go to. You could send from 46

that email remotely if you wanted to. 47

48

I’m not following, Mr Whyte?---So the way it goes is that if 49

someone had sent me an email to 50

[email protected] - - - 51

05/11/20 WHYTE, R.P. 17


1

Yes?--- - - - it would then – it would reply to 2

[email protected] and then it would reply to that 3

as well, as a – as a fall-back, as – as an additional email. 4

5

But what if an email’s being sent directly from the 6

Bigpond.net.au account?---You can access that if you – if 7

you had the password. 8

9

Right?---Or - - - 10

11

So you would need a separate password to get into the 12

Bigpond?---Correct. 13

14

Right, okay?---Yeah. 15

16

And you said earlier that you didn’t believe that Mr Whyte 17

– sorry, that Paul had access to any of your other email 18

accounts, other than your hotmail account?---Well, I – I’m 19

not quite aware of how – whether he did have access to this 20

or not. 21

22

I asked you earlier, Mr Whyte, and you said no - - -?---No. 23

24

- - - he didn’t?---To the best of my recollection. 25

26

Right. Okay. So this is an email to Andrew@ausciv, 27

21 January 2013, at 9.25?---Yeah. 28

29

To customer. Your tax invoice is attached. Please remit 30

payment at your earliest convenience. Thank you for your 31

business, we appreciate it very much. Sincerely, Mardale 32

Australia. 33

34

Did you send that email?---I can’t recall whether I sent it 35

or not. I – to the best of my recollection, I can’t recall 36

whether I did or I didn’t. I can’t – I just can’t recall. 37

38

Who else had access to that email account, the Bigpond 39

account?---No – it would only have been – it would have been 40

myself. 41

42

Okay. So if you’re the only one who had access, it could 43

have only been you?---It could have only been me. 44

45

And if we scroll down to the second page please, there’s an 46

invoice, Mardale Australia - - -?---Yeah. 47

48

18/1/2013 is the date, invoiced to Ausmodular?---That’s it. 49

50

05/11/20 WHYTE, R.P. 18


For the supply of modular building components and panels for 1

Hedland accommodation village as per quotation 1894. Price 2

of $2,670,000. Total cost, including GST, is $2937,000, 3

4

And then there’s a BSB and account number down the bottom. 5

Did you draw this invoice up, Mr Whyte?---Looking at the 6

invoice, yes, I did. 7

8

Why?---Well, my brother came to, I can’t recall when, and he 9

said to me that I had to do this. He – he needed to purchase 10

this property. 11

12

Mm?---And he – he bought – I don’t know when he bought the 13

property, but he - it had to be done, and he bullied me into 14

making – getting this invoice and getting it done. 15

16

Okay, and - - -?---For payment of a property in - - - 17

18

And why – why did you need to invoice Ausmodular?---I can’t 19

recall Ausmodular. I can’t recall why - I can’t recall - - - 20

21

They’re connected with Australian Civils?---No, I don’t 22

think – okay – okay - - - 23

24

Same director?---Okay, fine, but I’d have been advised who 25

– who to make an invoice out to. 26

27

And it was to – you sent the email with the attached invoice 28

to Andrew@ausciv? Was it Andrew Mitchell?---It looks like 29

that, yes. 30

31

It looks like - - -?---No, no – yes – yes. 32

33

It looks like (indistinct) already 34

35

?---Yes. It looks like that, yes. Yes. I can’t recall 36

when - - - 37

38

You knew – you knew Mr Mitchell, didn’t you?---I knew 39

Mr Mitchell, yes. 40

41

Yes, so – and you knew his email address, didn’t you?---If 42

you can just scroll back up, I would have had it. 43

44

[email protected]?---Yes, I would have known his email 45

address. 46

47

He wasn’t a stranger to you?---No, he wasn’t a stranger to 48

me, Andrew. 49

50

05/11/20 WHYTE, R.P. 19


No. So what was your understanding of why you needed to 1

send Mr Mitchell a Mardale tax invoice so Mr Paul Whyte could 2

purchase his house?---Sorry, can I have the question again. 3

4

What was your understanding of why you had to send 5

Mr Mitchell an invoice from Mardale in order for Paul to 6

purchase his house?---Paul came to me and said that he needed 7

to get the money and Mr Mitchell, that he will borrow him – 8

lend – borrow him the money, or lend him the money, and he 9

would assist in purchasing it, but wanted an invoice, and 10

Paul demanded me to get the invoice out and get it to Andrew 11

do that he could purchase - - - 12

13

Sorry, who wanted the invoice?---Pardon? 14

15

Who wanted the invoice?---Paul - Mr Mitchell asked Paul for 16

an invoice, to the best of my recollection. Okay? And that 17

Mr Mitchell would put the money in the Mardale account and 18

the house would be bought. That’s my understanding, and the 19

only way that - Paul was quite manic, he said he would be 20

financially ruined if this didn’t happen, and that he and 21

Mr Mitchell were working something out for Mr Mitchell to 22

purchase Palmerston Street at a later date, which was his 23

original residence. 24

25

Sorry, he and who were working something out?---Paul - - - 26

27

Yes?---And Mr Mitchell. 28

29

Were going to work something out?---And Mr Mitchell, to the 30

best of my recollection, is that Paul – and that was the 31

reason - I don’t know, that was what he told me, that Mitchell 32

was going to take over the property at – in Palmerston 33

Street. 34

35

As payback for giving him the money?---I didn’t – I just – 36

I – Mitchell would - Mr Mitchell would take control of 37

Palmerston Street. 38

39

Right. Do you know whether that in fact happened?---I 40

wouldn’t know. 41

42

The Commission to indicate that that never did occur, and 43

that Mr Mitchell never actually occupied Palmerston Street 44

at any point in time. Were you aware of that?---Sorry, 45

did - - 46

47

I said the Commission has information to indicate that 48

Mr Mitchell at no time occupied Palmerston Street, nor took 49

possession of it?---Okay. Well - - - 50

51

05/11/20 WHYTE, R.P. 20


Were you aware of that?---I was aware that Andrew never took 1

– well, was I aware that Andrew never took possession of it? 2

I – I – I can’t – I wouldn’t have known – I wouldn’t have 3

known. 4

5

How long had you known Mr Mitchell for, prior to this?---6

Prior – approximately – I’m just trying to work this out – 7

20 years. 8

9

Prior to 2013?---Sorry – sorry – sorry – we’re back in 2000, 10

about then. 11

12

Okay, so you’ve known him for approximately 12 to 13 years 13

before this?---Approximately, yeah. 14

15

Was he – how would you describe the nature of your 16

relationship with him?---Mr Mitchell’s daughter and my 17

daughter went to pre-primary together, and we – I became 18

aware, as in a parents-type group, that Mr Mitchell and he 19

and his wife and my wife – I mean, they were – the kids – 20

basically my two youngest – my youngest daughter and his 21

youngest daughter were friends from pre-primary to school, 22

so I knew him in a capacity of a social – like a school 23

capacity. 24

25

Did you socialise with him, or with his family, one-on-one?-26

--We did. Yes, we did, yeah, back then, yeah, certainly, 27

school parties and lunches and that sort of thing, and his 28

daughter stayed with us for a few times, you know, as kids 29

do as they grow up. 30

31

So would you say you were quite close with Mr Mitchell? 32

Would you say he was a friend?---I’d say he’s an 33

acquaintance. I mean, he was probably more of a – when you 34

say “a friend” – I knew him and I enjoyed his company, but 35

would I clarify as a close friend – the kids – the wives 36

were quite close. 37

38

So did you socialise with Mr Mitchell one-on-one, so your 39

family and his family, without anyone else there?---Not my 40

immediate family. 41

42

As in you, your wife?---Yeah, we would have, yes. We would 43

have, yes. 44

45

Okay. Did you ever socialise one-on-one with Mr Mitchell?-46

--Myself, yes. 47

48

Okay. Did you ask Mr Mitchell anything about this 49

transaction?---To my best recollection, no. 50

51

05/11/20 WHYTE, R.P. 21


Did you have any discussions whatsoever with Mr Mitchell 1

about this transaction? I understand it was quite some time 2

ago, so please - - -?---Honestly, I can’t recall what 3

conversation I had with Mr Mitchell, if I ever had any 4

conversation with Mr Mitchell about this transaction. 5

6

Mr Whyte, this is a person who – you’ve had their child stay 7

at your house, you’ve said you’ve socialised as a family 8

unit with his family unit, you’ve socialised one-on-one with 9

him, and you’re now saying that you’re not sure whether you 10

had any conversations around your company receiving 11

$2.9 million from his company?---At that – just – all I can 12

reflect back on that time is that at around about those 13

years, the children moved on, and I had – I can – I don’t - 14

to the best of my recollection, is at 2013, I don’t think we 15

were – like we’re not – we weren’t – put it this way, we 16

weren’t as close as what we were, that what we were in. 17

18

Nonetheless, a relationship had at some point developed?---19

It developed – it developed in a school – in a 20

children’s-type capacity, where - you know – but I had no 21

reason to socialise with him around – the kids had moved on, 22

and - - - 23

24

Okay. Regardless of that fact, there was a relationship at 25

some point?---Yeah. 26

27

Had Mardale ever invoiced Australian Civils or Ausmodular 28

previously for work?---Yes, there was an invoice done, and 29

I can’t recall when. 30

31

What for?---I - I can’t recall what it was for, but I believe 32

the money didn’t go into the Mardale account. 33

34

Where did it go?---I don’t know. 35

36

Okay. So let’s get this straight, you recall that Mardale 37

invoiced – was it Aus Civils or Ausmodular, which one?---38

I - - - 39

40

One of them invoiced invoice Mr Mitchell – one of 41

Mr Mitchell’s companies at some point prior to this. You 42

can’t remember what it was for, but you know the money didn’t 43

go into your account. That’s quite a specific detail to 44

remember. So take your time and cast your mind back, 45

Mr Whyte, as to, firstly, what the invoice was for. Why 46

would Mardale be invoicing one of Mr Mitchell’s companies?-47

--Because at the time, my best recollection is that there 48

was – an invoice was issued to – my best recollection is 49

there was an invoice. I can’t remember how much it was for, 50

but it was issued to – I don’t know which company it was 51

05/11/20 WHYTE, R.P. 22


issued to, but I can’t recall if the money ever came into 1

our account. 2

3

We’ve established that. I’m trying to get a bit more 4

detail?---Yeah. 5

6

So an invoice was issued by Mardale - - -?---Mm hmm. 7

8

- - - to either Aus Civils or Ausmodular, what for?---For 9

the purpose of Andrew to get money out of the business and 10

to - that’s right, to get the money out of the business so 11

that he could pay a couple of third parties a cheque. 12

13

Why did he need your company in order to do that?---I don’t 14

know – because he probably needed to generate an invoice for 15

the money to go somewhere, or - - - 16

17

What conversations did you have with Mr Mitchell about that? 18

How did that come about?---How did that come about? We 19

approached a third person, Craig Dale. 20

21

Who approached Craig Dale?---I don’t know who approached 22

Craig Dale. I don’t think - Mr Dale was dealing with 23

Mr Mitchell on a previous project. 24

25

Right?---And they asked for an invoice to be issued to 26

Mr Mitchell. 27

28

Who asked for an invoice to be issued to Mr Mitchell?---I 29

can’t recall who actually asked for the invoice to be – to 30

be given to Mr Mitchell. I can’t recall, I don’t know 31

exactly who said that. 32

33

It’s still very unclear to me, Mr Whyte. 34

35

THE ACTING COMMISSIONER: Was it your brother that asked?-36

--Possibly. I’m not quite - - - 37

38

PANTANO, MS: Let’s get this story straight, Mr Mitchell 39

owed Mr Dale some money? Is that correct?---I don’t – I 40

didn’t – I don’t know what he owed him. 41

42

I didn’t ask what he owed him, I’m trying to work out who 43

Mr Mitchell needed to pay? Who did he need to pay?---I don’t 44

know who he needed to pay, but I know – the only thing I 45

know is that – I can’t confirm the exact amount of the money 46

that was on the invoice - - - 47

48

That’s okay?---But the invoice was issued and from there 49

cheques were – I’ve done a cheque – I was – I was a 50

beneficiary of one of the – one of the amounts. 51

05/11/20 WHYTE, R.P. 23


1

Okay, so let’s just get this straight, there were three – 2

you said there were three external parties that 3

Mr Mitchell - - -?---I think so. 4

5

- - - had to pay?---Yeah. 6

7

You were one of them?---Yeah. 8

9

Is that correct?---Yes. 10

11

Who were the other two?---I would have thought Craig Dale 12

and Jake Anthonisz. 13

14

Okay, so Jake Anthonisz, Craig Dale and yourself?---Yes. 15

16

Okay. What did you need to be paid for?---I – I had some 17

money that I lent off a friend, and I had to pay him back. 18

19

Hang on a minute. You had borrowed money from a friend?---20

Correct, which - - - 21

22

And you needed to pay this other friend back?---Correct. 23

24

Right, so why were you getting the money from Andrew 25

Mitchell?---Because he - to the best of my recollection, he 26

needed an invoice. 27

28

Who needed an invoice?---Andrew. 29

30

For what?---For – for his bookkeeping, I would – like for 31

him. 32

33

Yes, but what I’m trying to understand is why was Andrew 34

Mitchell giving you the money to give to your friend?---Why? 35

36

Mm?---Because – I don’t know at what stage my brother was 37

involved, but he would have been involved to tell me to give 38

Andrew an invoice. 39

40

Was the money ultimately coming from the department?---I’m 41

not – I don’t know if it was coming from Mr Mitchell 42

personally, but the money that was given didn’t come from – 43

I don’t – the third party that drew the cheque was 44

Jake Anthonisz. 45

46

Okay. Now, I must admit I’m quite confused, Mr Whyte. You 47

said that you owed a third party money?---Mm hmm. 48

49

I’ll get to Jake Anthonisz and Craig Dale later. You owed 50

a third party money. Why did you go to Andrew Mitchell to 51

05/11/20 WHYTE, R.P. 24


get the money to pay - - -?---No, because we - I was told to 1

issue an invoice to Mr Mitchell, and I met Mr Mitchell and 2

handed him an invoice. 3

4

Yes. I’m trying to work out why. Was Mr Mitchell paying 5

off your debt?---He would have been paying off my debt 6

indirectly through his company. 7

8

He would have been, or he did?---He did. 9

10

Okay?---well, sorry, he didn’t, Jake did. 11

12

THE ACTING COMMISSIONER: Who was the third party that you 13

owed money to?---Sorry? 14

15

Who was the third party that you owed the money to?---Craig 16

Dale. 17

18

You owed them money?---Who did I owe the money to? 19

20

Yes, who was the third party?---The third party owed money 21

to Mark Miller. 22

23

PANTANO, MS: Okay. You owed him money. How did it come 24

to be that you were going to get that money from Mr Mitchell? 25

Did you ask him to loan you, or give you the money?---No, it 26

was – I don’t know exactly how he got the money. 27

28

I’m interested in how it came to be that Mr Mitchell was 29

ultimately the one who was going to hand over the money for 30

you to repay a debt. How did that - how did that arrangement 31

even come about?---To the best of my recollection it would 32

have been my brother, Paul. 33

34

Would have been or it was?---I - I cannot recall whether it 35

was my brother or whether it Craig Dale that had told me 36

that I needed to issue an invoice. 37

38

What would Craig Dale have to do with any of this?---He - he 39

worked with Mr Mitchell on a previous project. 40

41

Was that in Warmun?---Correct. 42

43

Okay. Is this during the Warmun time?---I can't recall when. 44

To be - - - 45

46

Okay?--- - - - honest with you, I can't - don't know the 47

exact date. 48

49

05/11/20 WHYTE, R.P. 25


Okay. So did you have a discussion at some point, or 1

discussions with Mr Dale, that you owned money to Mark 2

Miller?---Yes. 3

4

Okay. And you think he might have suggested, why don't you 5

just invoice - why don't - sorry, why don't you just get the 6

money from Andrew Mitchell?---I - I don't want to think of 7

anything but I - I - don't - yeah, I know. I can't remember 8

who - who had facilitated. But I would have thought it would 9

have been either Paul or Craig. 10

11

Why did you just pay your own debt back? Why did you go to 12

Mr Mitchell?---Cos at that time, with the businesses that I 13

- I had to pay back money urgently and I couldn't access the 14

money urgently. 15

16

And why was Mr - why, to your understanding, was Mr Mitchell 17

the person to go to?---He - he would have been the person to 18

go to because I was advised that you can - Andrew will borrow 19

you the money or not Andrew borrow you the money, but if you 20

gave Andrew an invoice, well, you know, he'd get you the 21

$100,000. 22

23

And you don't know if it came from Craig Dale or your - or 24

Paul?---I don't know who told me to do it, to give 25

Mr Mitchell the invoice, I can't recall. 26

27

Did you then - - - 28

29

THE ACTING COMMISSIONER: One of those two?---I'm - I'm - 30

to my best recollection, it would be one of those two. 31

32

PANTANO, MS: Okay. And - sorry. 33

34

THE ACTING COMMISSIONER: Sorry, how much?---The cheque? 35

36

For your debt to Mr Miller?---I think it was about $100,000. 37

38

Okay. Sorry, Ms Pantano. 39

40

THE WITNESS: Approximately (indistinct). 41

42

PANTANO, MS: So did you then approach Mr Mitchell?---Did 43

I, sorry? 44

45

Approach Mr Mitchell?---I - I don't understand. 46

47

To then - so either Mr Dale or your - or Paul said to you 48

"You've got to pay back this debt. Go talk to Mr Mitchell. 49

He's your man. He's going to repay your debt"?---Yep. 50

51

05/11/20 WHYTE, R.P. 26


So then, at some point, did you then go to Mr Mitchell?---I 1

met with Mr Mitchell. 2

3

Okay. Tell me about that meeting?---The - to the best of my 4

recollection, I went with an - an invoice. Okay. And at 5

that meeting was Craig Dale and - and he had - I don't know 6

who else was there. I think it was just Craig Dale. And he 7

- he then issued me a cheque from Jake Anthonisz's bank 8

account. 9

10

So you met with Mr Mitchell and Mr Dale?---Mm hmm. 11

12

And Mr Dale gave you a cheque from Jake Anthonisz's bank 13

account?---Correct. 14

15

So what did Mr Mitchell have to do with it?---I have got - 16

I - I - I can't recall what - where it went from there, I 17

don't know. 18

19

So who - did you hand over an invoice?---I handed over an 20

invoice. 21

22

And you gave the invoice to who?---Mr Mitchell I - 23

Mr Mitchell was there. 24

25

So you gave it to Mr Mitchell?---Yeah. 26

27

How do you know the cheque came from Mr Anthonisz's bank 28

account?---Because I - I - I know it - I'd - I'd seen the 29

cheque. 30

31

What was on the cheque?---It was blank and just had it - 32

just had an amount written on it. And that amount obviously 33

I deposited directly into Mark Miller's account. 34

35

Okay. Yes. What I'm interested in is, down the bottom of 36

the cheque, where it's got the details of where the cheque's 37

come from, what did it say?---Jake Anthonisz. 38

39

Just said Jake Anthonisz?---Yeah, Jake Anthonisz. 40

41

Did it have any business name on there?---No, just Jake 42

Anthonisz. 43

44

Did you ask any questions of anybody about this arrangement, 45

how it was all working, that you were invoicing Andrew 46

Mitchell for your debt of which you've received a cheque 47

from Jake Anthonisz for?---Yes. 48

49

Can you see how that's quite convoluted?---Yes, it is. 50

51

05/11/20 WHYTE, R.P. 27


And so did you ask anybody any questions about it?---I can 1

only recall that I'd spoken to Mr Mitchell about that 2

particular invoice and I never asked where it was - the money 3

was going, no. 4

5

Okay. So is that the only other time you've issued Mr - one 6

of Mr Mitchell's companies an invoice before?---I can't - I 7

can't recall any other ones. I - I can't recall if there 8

is. I - I - I can't recall. 9

10

THE ACTING COMMISSIONER: My understanding is that there 11

were also similar transactions in respect of Craig Dale and 12

Jake Anthonisz?---Sorry? 13

14

So do we need to go through them? 15

16

PANTANO, MS: Perhaps we might have a short adjournment. 17

18

THE ACTING COMMISSIONER: Yes. 19

20

PANTANO, MS: 15 minutes. 21

22

THE ACTING COMMISSIONER: Sorry, before we adjourn, what 23

was it that you owed Mr Miller $100,000 for?---He was working 24

for me at the time and he had money that he'd come back from 25

working from - he moved back into Australia and they said to 26

me that "I've got access to some money in my bank account. 27

If you need ever to borrow anything, you can use it for" - 28

which I didn't. I used it for work purposes. 29

30

So he just said - - -?---And then he then - and that was 31

over a certain amount of period of time. 32

33

Okay. Thank you. 34

35

We'll adjourn for 15 minutes. 36

37

(THE WITNESS WITHDREW) 38

39

(Short adjournment) 40

41

(TIMESTAMP) / 03.18.37 PM 42

05/11/20 WHYTE, R.P. 28


WHYTE, RONALD PETER RECALLED ON FORMER OATH AT 03.32 PM: 1

2

THE ACTING COMMISSIONER: Yes? 3

4

PANTANO, MS: Mr Whyte, just a couple of questions to finish 5

up today. We've established that you sent the invoice via 6

email to Andrew Mitchell. And do you recall whether you 7

received - or whether the Mardale bank account received 8

payment of that invoice?---Mardale bank account did receive 9

that invoice. 10

11

And just to be clear, Mr Whyte, isn't it the fact that no 12

work was actually done in order for that invoice to be paid?-13

--No works were done. 14

15

Okay. That it was purely generated so that the money could 16

be transferred from Mr Whyte's - Mr Paul Whyte's house, is 17

that correct?---Correct. 18

19

Can I have document 0744^, please? 20

21

0744^ 22

23

PANTANO, MS: It's a copy of the Mardale Australia business 24

account?---Mm hmm. 25

26

It's been blanked out just to protect privacy. And you will 27

see that there's a incoming transaction or incoming deposit 28

rather of $2,937,000 from Ausmodular on 21 January?---Mm 29

hmm. 30

31

And on 23 January, there's a transfer of $2,805,000 and 28 32

- sorry, 2.805 million dollars. Can you see that?---Yes, I 33

can. 34

35

Where did that money go?---The money went - I don't know the 36

exact account, but I was - I went to the bank account in 37

Albany - in ANZ in East Vic Park. 38

39

In where sorry?---ANZ in East Vic Park. 40

41

Right?---On Albany Highway. And I don't know how I had the 42

bank account number, but I was given the bank account number 43

to make sure that once that money came in, it would be 44

transferred straight out to an account that - basically Paul 45

said that it needed to go into. 46

47

So did he give you the bank account details to transfer the 48

money?---He would have given me the bank account details. 49

50

You said he would have, did - - -?---Yes, he did. 51

05/11/20 WHYTE, R.P. 29


1

He did?---Yep. 2

3

Okay. And did he say whose bank account details they were?-4

--He said it was for the purchase of the property. 5

6

Okay. Now, there's a slight discrepancy between the amount 7

of money that came into your account and the amount of money 8

that went out. It's approximately $131,972. What did you 9

do with that money?---I -I - I - I can't recall what I did 10

with it. I can't recall. 11

12

Did you keep it?---I - I honestly - I can't - I can't recall 13

where it went or where it - where it - where it went to. 14

15

Did anybody ask?---Obviously shows that it was in the 16

account. 17

18

Because it significantly made your bank account go up when 19

the money went in. Can you see that?---Yes. 20

21

And that even when it came out, the account was over 120-odd 22

thousand dollars. Admittedly, there was a couple of large-23

ish deductions which you can't see there, but you can see 24

the balance is - - -?---Yes. 25

26

- - - obviously going down?---I can't recall where those 27

deductions went to, but I - - - 28

29

Did anybody ask you to transfer any part of that additional 30

money that was left over?---I - I - I - I can't recall. I 31

recall the actual amount, the balance is - normally what I 32

- I - I - I'd - I thought was there what I thought was there 33

was there. 34

35

If it helps, the blanked out parts, so 24 Jan, 24 Jan and 36

6 Feb - - -?---Mm hmm. 37

38

- - - represent three cheques?---Yep. 39

40

One for $39,398, one for 26,000 and for 11,000. All three 41

were cheques?---Right. 42

43

What would you ordinarily draw cheques out for, from your 44

business bank account?---Probably suppliers or contractors. 45

46

If you cast your mind back, can you recall what in fact those 47

cheques went to pay for?---I cannot recall. To my best 48

recollection, I can't recall. 49

50

Did it go to Mr Whyte?---I - I - - - 51

05/11/20 WHYTE, R.P. 30


1

To your - to Paul?--- I can't recall. 2

3

Did it go to Mr Mitchell?--- I can't recall. 4

5

Did it go back to the Department?---Sorry, the - - - 6

7

Did it - did that money - any of that money go to - - -?---8

No. 9

10

- - - the Department of Housing?---Not that I'm - not that 11

I - not that I am aware of. I can't recall any of the 12

amounts. 13

14

Did you mention to Paul that there was a difference between 15

what he needed for the house and what was transferred to 16

you?---Paul did say to me that there - there was an 17

additional amount. But I can't recall what the rest of the 18

conversation was. I was told by Paul to make sure that money 19

of the 2.8 million was transferred into that by - tele 20

transfer into that account. 21

22

So you recall him saying that there was going to be 23

additional monies left over?---I recall that he did say that 24

there were was going to be additional money, but that was a 25

substantial amount, yes. 26

27

And he said to you 2.8-odd million dollars has to be 28

transferred out for the house?---Correct. 29

30

And what about the rest?---I - I - I can't recall to be 31

honest with you. I'm - my main focus was on - he was manic 32

that that money went into that account. 33

34

On the second page - and - and it will be blanked out, if we 35

can scroll down. It's not blanked out, but they're just 36

transfers. 37

38

If we can just scroll up a little bit more? No, no, no, no, 39

sorry, other way. Yes. And just down just a slight amount 40

- sorry, up just a slight amount. Okay. That's great. 41

Thank you. 42

43

Those transfers, the 10, two lots of five, another lot of 44

five, 10, five, the Commission's conducted traces on those 45

and they've gone to the Metal Components bank account?---46

Components account, yep. 47

48

That's another one of your business bank accounts?---It is. 49

50

And that totals $40,000?---Right. 51

05/11/20 WHYTE, R.P. 31


1

Is it fair to say that you retained a portion of that money?-2

--Correct. 3

4

Commissioner, I have no further questions and Mr Whyte can 5

be released from his summons. 6

7

Thank you. 8

9

Mr van der Zanden, do you have any questions? 10

11

VAN DER ZANDEN, MR: Not from my part, thank you, 12

Commissioner. 13

14

THE ACTING COMMISSIONER: Thank you. 15

16

Mr Whyte, you are released from your summons. 17

18

We'll adjourn. 19

20

(THE WITNESS WITHDREW) 21

22

AT 3.41 PM THE MATTER WAS ADJOURNED ACCORDINGLY 23

05/11/20 WHYTE, R.P. 32


Certificate Made Under Section 50A of the

Evidence Act 1906

The transcript of Ronald Peter Whyte heard on Thursday,

5 November 2020

was made in good faith and, subject to any qualification

referred to below, is correct, accurate and complete

transcription of the contents of the recording;

was produced from recordings that were suitable for

making an accurate and complete transcript except where

otherwise stated in the body of the transcript. Any

“indistinct” or “inaudible” or other notations

indicating difficulty with the transcription contained

within the transcript refers to those parts of the

proceedings that could not be accurately transcribed

due to speech clarity, recording quality or other

factors impacting word intelligibility.

Certified on this 5th day of November 2020 by: Glenda Judge,

Sheila Robbshaw, Joshua Stevenson

Full Name: Glenda Judge

Sheila Robbshaw

Joshua Stevenson

Occupation: Transcriber and officer of the Commission under

the Corruption, Crime and Misconduct Act 2003 ss 182, 3 who

has taken an oath before the Commissioner.

Signature: (Glenda Judge) (Sheila Robbshaw) (Joshua

Stevenson)

Epiq Australia

Level 1, Kings New Office Tower

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corruption and crime commission of western ... november...34 van der zanden, mr: yes, i do, if it...

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