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Centenary ProjectClive Hopwood tells usabout the proposals for amedia centre and lift atThe Institute.

PhototourTake a closer look at TheInstitute designed by theDavies' family favouritearchitect Dickens Lewis.

Old PhotosCheck out these oldphotos of The Instituteand its role in town life.

Whose Institute?Find out about some ofthe groups who use TheInstitute today.

Centre of TownFind out how one localremembers his boyhooddays at The Institute inthe 1940s.

Recording the YearsTake a look at somephotos of the many papersdocumenting TheInstitute's history.

Your InstitutePhotos of some recentcommunity events andartist impressions of theCentenary Project.

MemoriesListen to Dr John andBarbara Jones talk abouttheir memories of theInstitute.

More on LlanfairFor more articles andphotos about LlanfairCaereinion, its people andits attractions.

Awards For AllEirianwen Jones' photo ofthe institute's new lights.

The InstituteTo celebrate the Big Lotterygrant for Llanfair Institute'sCentenary Project we havecollected together memories,photos, and articles that showhow local people feel about thebuilding and its past:

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Llanfair CaereinionAdfa Chapel PhotosBelgium RefugeesGreat Fire of 1758Lewis EvanLlanfair Carnival - 2007Llanllugan ChurchLocal LifeLocal PhotosMy TownScout GroupTown Photo Tour

Llanfair Utd FCSammy GSian James ProfileThe InstituteWeb GuideWelshpool & Llanfair Light Railway

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This document is a snapshot of content from a discontinued BBC website, originally published between 2002-2011. It has been made available for archival & research purposes only. Please see the foot of this document for Archive Terms of Use.


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The Centenary ProjectLast updated: 27 February 2008

In February 2008 theInstitute's Centenary Projectwas informed that it wassuccessful in its bid for a BigLottery Grant of £120,000. Co-ordinator Clive Hopwood toldus about the plans and howthe community will benefit:

"The Institute was opened on 15 October 1913. It cost£5,000 to build, the necessary funds being donated by theDavies family of Llandinam (its 2007 valuation is £200,000).

Clearly the town has seen a great many changes through thelast 94 years but the Institute has done its best to aspire toMr Davies's ideals and "make it part of the real life of thelocality". The building and land is owned by the Instituteitself.

A registered charity, run by volunteers from the localcommunity, it continues to play host to a wide variety ofsocieties, scouts and brownies, Young Farmers, classes,dramas and concerts, private functions, the town's branchlibrary as well as coffee mornings, sales and fairs.

The Institute's purpose is be at the heart of our community,offering a meeting place for all ages and interests, accessible,affordable and of benefit to as wide of spectrum of thecommunity as possible.

The Institute Committee meets every two months and electsits members annually at the AGM (usuallyOctober/November); other members are co-opted asappropriate. The committee is comprised of local residentsand includes representatives of all the major users of thebuilding, with a Chair, Deputy Chair, Secretary, Treasurer andBookings Secretary. Sub-Committees, such as fundraising,are appointed to deal with specific projects or areas ofactivity.

The consultation process withthe local community beganinformally with the communitybefore we even presented theoriginal Outline Proposal to BigLottery People and Places.

It gave voice to a generalfeeling in the town that not only did the Institute need afacelift and improved facilities but that it would be ideal if wecould it in place in time for the building's centenary.

We designed a bi-lingual questionnaire in three versions -School, Households and User Groups (and potential usergroups)- which were distributed to every household,schoolchild (Primary and Secondary), and Institute usergroup in the community. 279 questionnaires were returned.




The results helped to shapematerials for the Open Weekduring which we displayed anexhibition showing the optionsfor the future of the hall andthe various plans - groundplans, photographs and artists'impressions supported byexplanatory text - withInstitute members on hand (with free hot drinks and scones)to explain any of the details and listen to new ideas.

We also took names and contact details of any volunteerswilling to participate actively in the project. 504 peopleattended the Open Week during its 5 days.

• Just over 17% of the younger members of the community(total respondents 119) didn't know what went on at theInstitute or found it not interesting. The six things they votedmost strongly for the Media Centre (70), Better Library (61),Stage Lighting & Sound System (47), Internet Café (47), Lift(46) and Re-equipped kitchens (40). • Of the households (145) questioned 111 currently use theInstitute. Their top six were Re-equipped kitchens (60), Lift(59), Disabled Toilets (55), Better Library (47) Stage Lighting& Sound System (43) and Art & Exhibitions (36).• From the User groups (15) their top six were Re-equippedkitchens (10), Disabled Toilets (8), Lift (8), Better Library (7),Improved Exterior (6) and Arts & Exhibitions (5).

Proposed building works

The proposed building works will refurbish the exterior of theInstitute and make alterations to the interior and exteriorgarden area as follows:• Renovate Institute exterior walls, roof, windows and doors.• Construct lift shaft (concrete with brickwork support) andinstall lift from ground floor to first floor.• Construct new toilets: male (2 x WC and washbasins),female (2 x WC and Washbasins) and disabled toilets (1 xWC and washbasin)• Demolish existing main hall kitchen, construct doubledoorway/hatch through to new kitchen to be sited in currentInstitute flat main bedroom.• Carry out Institute flat conversion to meeting rooms/officespace and kitchen - remove existing stairs, build flight ofstairs to exterior ground floor wall. Construct new groundfloor exit door. Construct partition wall to separate stairsfrom ground floor meeting room.• Refurbish stage dressing room on ground floor. Install worksurfaces, lights and mirrors.• Renovate derelict outbuilding as second dressing room.Repair roof and walls, replace door and two windows. Installpartition wall and door and WC and washbasin. Install worksurfaces, lights and mirrors.• Lay down landscaped garden with pebbles and pavingsurround. Reconstruct low stone wall and create semi-circularperformance platform.• Re-site oil tank.• Construct storage area in the Gallery.• Redecorate as appropriate, including stage to dressing roomstairwell, dressing rooms, media centre and gallery.

Media Centre

The Media Centre will provide a significant contribution tocommunity life in the town. With its facility to publish inprint, audio and video, it is designed to appeal right acrossthe age spectrum and to a wide variety of interests in thecommunity.

A community newsletter will be published, highlightingactivities at the Institute and offering a forum for debate onlocal issues.

A series of books will be published. This facility will be ofparticular value to the History Group and the Creative WritingGroup, both of which have only been able to publish a limitedamount of material in the past. The DTP facility will also beavailable to produce publications for the community - fromwedding services to posters. The town's only printers closedin 2006; the nearest alternative is 8 miles away.

A Reminiscence Group will be started to record local people'sstories onto CD. This is a particularly urgent project as theolder generation in Llanfair has witnessed dramatic changes inthe town over the last century. We intend to involve localgroups, including Llanfair Primary and High Schools, to createa sound archive for future generations.

The video unit will produce both documentaries and dramas.This is intended to particularly appeal to the younger agegroup. Community events and activities will be recorded anda documentary produced to encourage tourism to the town.

The audio unit will be available for local storytellers,musicians and bands to record their material onto CD.

The Media Centre will also generate income for the Institutethrough sales of published material as well as throughcommissions and hire charges for the recording facilities.Almost none of the above activities are currently available inthe town in any form. The Media Centre would be a majordevelopment in the town's cultural life.

Main Hall

Improvements to the Main Hall include the installation of asound and lighting system, together with an extensivelyrefurbished kitchen.

The sound and lighting system will make the hall a muchmore viable performance and exhibition space. A fullyfunctioning kitchen able to prepare and serve hot food willalso greatly enhance the facilities the hall offers.

The hall would thus become considerably more practical andattractive to hirers and generate extra income for theInstitute, as well as potentially increasing the number andrange of events open to the community.

The installation of the lift will have a direct effect on accessand increasing the use of the hall. The elderly, the lessphysically able and young families with pushchairs andprams, make up a significant proportion of the localpopulation - and the current access to the hall via two flightof stairs tends to exclude many of them from events on thefirst floor, or indeed staging larger events for these groups inthe hall.

Coffee mornings are a perennial favourite in the Institute,particularly among older residents. Improved kitchen facilities(both upstairs and downstairs) would enhance the range ofwhat could be offered in terms of refreshments at theseevents.

The new hall kitchen, toilets and lifts would make it possibleto start a weekly luncheon club, creating both social andnutritional benefits for older residents.

Refurbished dressing rooms will make the Institute moreattractive and user-friendly to performance groups such asLlanfair Players, Male Voice Choir etc.

The flat which adjoins the Institute will be converted into (i)the new kitchen for the Main Hall, (ii) two offices for localbusinesses. If we were to continue to rent this as a flat thepremises would require major refurbishment.

The conversion of the flat's kitchen into a corridor whichconnects the Institute's main downstairs corridor with thegarden opens up opportunities to hire out the newlylandscaped garden (plus marquee) for outdoor functions withcatering, enabled by the downstairs refurbished kitchen andeasy access to the new ground floor toilets.

Future Implications

While not directly part of this grant bid, there would be majorimplications for the future of the library as a result. Betterlibraries facilities and the internet café ideas were widelyapplauded by all.

The community fought twohard campaigns in 2006 and2007 to dissuade PowysCounty Council from closingthe library; the proposedchanges to the Institute wouldenhance our case for doublingthe size of the library andmaking it one of the Council's

info centres.

This is fully supported by the Institute Committee, CountyCouncillor Viola Evans and Mick Bates AM. We would alsoseek ways at a later date to encourage the Council to acquire

additional land for parking spaces. A modernised Institute isan essential foundation for these initiatives."

Article by Clive Hopwood

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The Institute - A phototourLast updated: 26 February 2008

From outside in and bottom to top - take a look at these photographs of Llanfair's Institutetaken in February 2008.

Llanfair Institute - February 2008

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/wales/mid/sites/llanfaircaereinion/pages/llanfairinstitute_building.shtml?1


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From outside in and bottom to top - take a look at thesephotographs of Llanfair's Institute taken in February 2008.

Llanfair Institute from St Mary's Churchyard - February

2008

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Llanfair Institute metalwork on gate - February 2008

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Llanfair Institute windows - February 2008

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Llanfair Institute Front Door - February 2008

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Llanfair Institute Room 1's dumb waiter and where the

new lift will hopefully go - February 2008

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Llanfair Institute Room 1 looking into the hallway-

February 2008

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Llanfair Institute Parish Council Noticeboard - February

2008

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Llanfair Institute Artwork along the corridor to Room 2 -

February 2008

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Old Photographs of The InstituteLast updated: 26 February 2008

See how The Institute has changed and been used over theyears in these pictures taken early in the twentieth century.These images feature in The Photographer in Rural Wales byDr. W. T. R. Pryce who grew up on Bridge Street in LlanfairCaereinion and attended The Institute from an early age.

If you have any old photos of The Institute we can add themto the slideshow if you send them to:[email protected].

Old Buildings on the site of the institute - c1910. C.Bernard Evans, painter and decorator (trade sign onright) and, on his left, his workman Dick Goodwin.

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David Davies, MP, addresses the crowd at the opening of

the Institute - October 15 1913

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Public Hall and Institute - 1913

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Bridge Street and The Institute - c1915. This photo wassold locally as a postcard and was taken soon after thecompletion of The Institute (note the new paving slabs)

and the London City & Midland Bank on the Square1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9






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Drama Party - 1917. The Institute became a centre fordrama festivals and concerts. Here are members of the

Banw Valley Drama Company.1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9






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Peace Day Parade in Bridge Street - July 19 1919. Some130 returning soldiers and nurses marched through thetown for a memorial service in Market Square, sports on

Mount Field, fireworks and a hymn.1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9






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Coronation Day - 1937. The parade lines up in BridgeStreet with Mr J. Lloyd Astley as the Chief Marshal.

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Institute Snooker Team - 1938. (Front row left to right)

Bert Astley, Owen Jones, Joe Stephens, Ted Leary,Arthur Davies, Ron Astley, Ambrose Evans, (back row)Ted Morgan, Jack Hughes, W. Lloyd Pierce, Jack/John

Lewis.1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9






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Dolgoch and Bridge Street - April 1977

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Whose Institute?Last updated: 27 February 2008

To celebrate the Big Lotterygrant announced in February2008 Assistant Treasurer andWI member Gwyneth Bowentold us about how TheInstitute is used today:

"The WI has always used the Institute especially before thewar and when Merched y Wawr started they used it too. Itsvery useful to have the different sized rooms for our differentevents. We have coffee mornings once a month and ourmeetings, as well as one off events like funeral teas and weused to have fayres here.

Merched Y Wawr have a concert and a St Davids Day mealand event too. The kitchen is fairly old though and needsupdating so hopefully the new grant will help.

Other groups use the building too, the historical Society havetalks and slideshows in the back room and there are regularBingo evenings. The choir, Homely Club, the Writers' Group,Scouts, and Guides and Brownies all use rooms here and thelibrary gets lots of visitors.

We still have pantos here andthere have been craft fairs andthe Hall has been used forexhibitions, I remember onewith old farm machinery thatwas actually really popular,people could see these oldobjects and learn how theywere used locally.

The Institute is also used for voting in elections and couldperhaps have wider uses. Lots of groups have their ownfacilitie snow, like the Church Hall and the Leisure Centre atthe School but The Institute has a great character and whenpeople see the Hall upstairs they can't believe what a buildingit is."

Interview with Gwyneth Bowen






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Centre of TownLast updated: 27 February 2008

From billiards to warpropaganda films, localhistorian Emyr Daviesremembers The Institute asthe centre of town life in the1940s. In February 2008 hetold us about his memories:

"Llanfair was a progressive town in those days with thesteam railway, for example, which took its first passengers toand from Welshpool in 1903

In 1914 prominent members of the town also established theElectric Light Society in 1914. There was no gas and so theyhoused a water turbine and generator in Melin y Ddol with apowerhouse built in Llanfair Caereinion that provided thetown with its own electric and was managed by Evans 'theelectric'!

There was no public building except the churches and chapelswhere concerts couldn't be held so it was felt that the townshould have a space for events and culture and The Instituteopened in 1913 having been donated by David Davies ofLlandinam when he was MP of Cardiganshire.

I've been coming here since the 1940s and have had a lot offun in this building, even having our wedding reception here52 years ago. The Institute was the centre of the town. Thiswas the billiards room where we used to come and watchand sometimes play. The team was successful and you hadto book in advance for your half hour slot on the table.

I remember old Tom Corkused to come and sit on theraised platform in the cornerand advise the players (Inever saw him play) and spittobacco behind the oakpanelling where it was comingaway from the wall!

There were lots of committees and meetings, with the elite ofthe town and its businessmen, and the Headteacher of theprimary school, for example. They were a puritan lot and notmuch fun for us lads.

In the early 1940s they brought in a caretaker who wasCatholic and we treated him terribly, making jokes about thePope and so on and when it got bad we would be hauledbefore the management committee one by one and bebanished for a fortnight, which was a huge blow - coming toThe Institute was very important to us.

There was a private library, a reading room with desks andstands for the daily papers and an anteroom at the backwhere the batteries for the electric light company were kept.

Upstairs they used to hold




concerts and Eisteddfodperformances. We used to likethe Gallery where we wouldthrow bits of paper down intothe audience, the Gallery wasa favourite place for the lads.

We were naughty boys, nodifferent in any age just different opportunities. Thepolicemen would be at the concerts in those days though andwe were scared of them!

During the war the Ministry of Information used to comearound with films which was really exciting before television.They were propaganda nonsense like "Walls Have Ears" and"Careless Talk Loses Lives" (why in Llanfair I don't know) butthe Hall would be full.

The Institute was self-supporting with members paying about5 shillings a year and hundreds of members. It is still usedbut it doesn't really appeal to the younger people. With thenew grant I hope it will be developed in a way that attractsthem."

Interview with Emyr Davies



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The DocumentsLast updated: 26 February 2008

Take a look at this sample of the papers that document TheInstitute's history from the sale of the land before it was builtto the customs and excise guidelines on Bingo Duty:

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Extract from the Transfer of mortgage of several messuagesor dwellinghouses....situate at Llanfair in the County of

Montgomery for securing £600 & interest. Mr Evan Thomasto Mr Thomas Watkins - December 8 1882.






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Cover: Mrs Ann Thomas and Others to Mr John RobertsTransfer of mortage and further charge of several

messuages and dwelling houses hereditaments and premisessituate at Llanfair in the County of Montgomery to secure

£700 & interest at 4%.






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Cover of the Opening of Llanfair Institute Programme -October 15th 1913.





http://www.bbc.co.uk/wales/mid/sites/llanfaircaereinion/pages/llanfairinstitute_docs.shtml?1


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Opening of Llanfair Institute Programme - October 15th1913.







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Plan of Bridge Street from document relating to the Will ofEvan Thomas of Holly House - December 8 1915.







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List of Members of Comrades Association. Agreement drawnup December 22 1924 between members of LlanfairComrades Association and The Institute Management

Committee. When the United Services Fund was shared outfor the welfare of returning servicemen £101 was donated to

The Institute. In return the 217 men from Llanfair Parishwho served in the First World War were made Life Members,and were allowed to use The Institute for meetings (and the

main hall four times a year), and two members were co-opted to the Management Committee.







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Solicitor's letter regarding the sale of land for publicconveniences - May 27 1936.







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Extracts of Management Committee notes - September 301945.







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Letter acknowledging the deeds of Brook House Garden andthe Deed Poll of September 29 1911 by D. H. Peate

November 22 1955.







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The Institute TodayLast updated: 26 February 2008

Take a look at what the Institute offers today in thesephotographs sent in by Clive Hopwood from the ManagementCommittee. We also have a few artist impressions of thefuture development:

Going back in time with a Murder Mystery evening at

the Llanfair Institute.

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A fund raising duck race in the River Banw

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The Annual Pantomime by the Llanfair Players -

February 2008

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Save Our Library protests outside The Institute

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Now - looking down the stairs to the Front Door Hallway

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Artist impression of development: Looking down the

stairs to the Front Door Hallway

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Now - backroom

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Artist impression of the backroom when turned into a

media centre

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Dr John and Barbara JonesLast updated: 31 March 2008

Dr John Jones and his wifeBarbara remember billiardsand dances at the Institutewhen it was the centre ofLlanfair's social life. InFebruary 2008 when theInstitute received notice of theBig Lottery grant theyrecounted their memories:

Listen to Dr John talk about billiards...

John:

"My first memory of the Institute was watching them playbilliards with Tom Cork sitting in the corner as usual, yes,chewing twist, and then [makes spitting action] he had aspittoon by his legs, yes... that was one of my first memoriesI think.

And then the dances as well, erm, the big dances. The NewYear's Eve Dance...the films with Cliff, no it wouldn't be CliffRichards! Cliff in any case, Cliff The Films we used to say andthen he came on a Friday and the films would show on aSaturday and he came on a Friday, and then he had a littlevan.

And I think Winston Humphreys and myself and I thinkEdward Bennett used to come as well and then go aroundthe district putting posters on gate posts and barn doors andthings.

And then on the night of the films we were all there andThomas Oliver playing the piano and then if the film wasrising to a crescendo then he was [pushes] with his hard footdown on the hard pedal and this sheet of corrugated... wouldcreate the atmosphere as well. Of course all that finished, Idon't know when, When did it finish?

I think I went away to school then so I lost a lot of, and itwas only during the holidays that um, I came back again.And, of course, everything had changed, you'd find thatsomething had gone or they hadn't enough money. Like thereading room, I mean...I remember that quite clearly withthe, there were about four or five, four I think, big, you knowthe things with the brass rods to hold the papers and thenthere was no library. When did the library start?

I honestly don't know when the library started... it was allone room, it wasn't divided up and then it was divided upand they had the reading room in one side and the librarythe other, and then wheny the divided it up the reading roomas such, went, and then they had a committee room. And itsnot been altered since.

Interview with Dr John Jones





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Remembering the InstituteLast updated: 31 March 2008

Dr John Jones remembers atthe Institute and Mr Wolf theDentist in room three! InFebruary 2008 when theInstitute received notice of aBig Lottery grant he recountedsome of his memories:

Listen to John...

"All the events of the village took place in the Institutebecause there was nowhere else to, but unfortunately againthe access to the main hall was difficult, very difficultbecause there was no lift and there's still no lift there. Butthe only thing they could do was take food, prepare it in thekitchen of the flat and then take it up on the thing into thelittle room on the left hand side as you went in to thekitchen, wasn't it? [Barbara says the kitchen was cut into theroom later] I think it was, yes.

There was a very big concert with Gwen Catley, she was anAustralian mezzo soprano, a little woman. I remember welistened, we couldn't get in, but we were outside on thechurch path listening to it, yes we couldn't, I think we weretoo, not enough room or I don't know, in any case, weweren't inside the hall.

We were on the outside of the hall. But unfortunately, I thinkthe thing that, we said this before haven't we, the thing thatspoilt all was the fact that there was no lift for the old peopleto get upstairs, that was a big draw back, and with theadvent of [gestures at the television] of the television andthe motor car and the young people not really interested ofwhat went on in the town and they're still not interestedreally, are they?

Yes there's Young Farmers still, as I say there was no HighSchool and no leisure centre so that really all theentertainment was centred in the Institute itself and withoutthat the village would have...well, yes, it was really thecentre of the village.

As I say various people used to come, Mr Wolf the dentistused to come into room three and then he had a [laughs]dental surgery, well all it amounted to was a spittoon I thinkand the old treadle drill [laughs] I never went to him, Iwasn't allowed to.

I remember him being there. Who else used to come to theinstitute to do anything, some of the music teachers used tohave a session there. So the students or whoever used tocome and have their lessons in the Institute.

The acoustics were wonderful for any of the concerts...mostlyWelsh plays and Welsh dramas, because there was muchmore Welsh in the village then than there is now.




And, that's right, I was going to say, all the minutes of theInstitute were taken in Welsh and not in English and thenthey were trans, I think Bob Brynglas used to transfer themback again into English for the non Welsh members of theCommittee. But the Committee always met on the thirdMonday, yes, the third Monday in the month.

Mother and Dad have always been interested in, well, yes,always had the Institute in their, hearts because Dad was amember for many many years and as I say Mother was onthe Committee for a long long time as well.

So that I suppose to a certain extent that was why I wasinvolved. And as I say there was nothing else to do really, inthe village..anyone could go in pay whatever, 6pence I thinkfor a couple of hours billiards but nobody was allowed to playwhen the 'big' people used to come and yes..."

Interview with Dr John Jones

Barbara Jones talks about dances and drinks...

More from Dr John Jones...



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Awards For All WalesLast updated: 17 September 2008

In September 2008 Former Hon Secretary Eirianwen Jonessent in this photogrpah of herself with her husband, formerchairman, Robert Milton Jones with the cheque showing thepresentation of £4,500.00 from Awards For All Wales.

Eirianwen:"The picture shows us in the main hall with thelarge cheque we received from Awards For All Wales towardsthe New Lights we put up in the main hall, which looksstunning, and everyone has been very complimentary of ourwork in setting them up. My husband took a week off hiswork to help in getting them up, and I did all the cleaningafter the painters left."



Sioe FrenhinolLlanelweddY Sioe Frenhinol 2010. Cyflei edrych yn ôl ar

ddigwyddiadau'r Sioe Fawr 2010.



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Drinks and DancesLast updated: 31 March 2008

In February 2008 the Institutereceived notice of a BigLottery grant. Barbara Jonestold us about her first dancethere and the changes thatallowed alcohol to be soldonsite:

Listen to Barbara...

Barbara:

"Right, my memories of the institute, well it was 1969, Isuppose. 68 or 69. My first introduction, very firstintroduction was, I was persuaded to go to a dance on aFriday night and it would be near enough ten o'clock Isuppose and we got there and couldn't get in to startbecause there was a running fight coming down the stairswith blood running down the stones steps and we couldn'tget up until that had been sorted out and so gingerly wentup the stairs avoiding this blood, erm to the dance.

Well, it was quite an eye opener for me really, but Imanaged a hop or two. Jill was known, Jill Richards, who Iwas working and living at the Royal Oak in Pont Robert at thetime. John and Jill owned it. And Jill and I came to escapethe boredom of a midwinter evening in the bar and Jill wasknown by all and of course welcomed and ...have anotherdance Jill, there was no drinking you see and I just stood inthe shadows more or less because I'd never seen anythinglike it, only in a wild west film! But that was my introductionto the Institute but I have been many times since [laughs].

When it was decided to try to get the deed broken, theDavies' deed about no alcohol, to be served at anytime, wefound that people would have come to and held more thingsin the Institute had there been a bar so this was decided tosee what we could do and it ended up with the CharityCommissioners being involved and so the deed was brokenabout the non alcohol so the dances picked up andeverything, wedding receptions, erm, and then concertswhere you could have a glass of wine within the cost of yourticket, included a glass of wine.

And it did make a difference having a bar there this was1975 or 6 perhaps, that was when I came on the scene andMr Bennett was the Chairman, yes, but before then therewas no alcohol unless it was smuggled in which it shouldn'thave been [laughs]."

Interview with Barbara Jones

More from Dr John Jones...





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