an interview with john molinelli

8/2/2019 An interview with John Molinelli

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Q&A with John MolinelliProsecutor goes behi the sce es i bomb probe

L arry y udeLson

F ive attacks. Hundreds of police officers. Thousands

of potential targets. An assailantgrowing steadily more daring anddangerous. And concern that heknew what an eruv was.

The attacks on northern New Jersey synagoguespresented Bergen County Prosecutor John Molinelli withone of the highest profile and high pressure cases of hiscareer, he said in a March 9 interview with The JewishStandard.

The case now appears to be wrapped up, with thearrest earlier this month of 19-year-old Aakash Dalalas the alleged mastermind of the firebombing of Congregation Beth El in Rutherford, as well as thwartedblazes at two Paramus synagogues, and graffiti scrawlson synagogues in Maywood and Hackensack. Dalal’sarrest followed the earlier arrest of Anthony Graziano, who allegedly created and threw Molotov cocktails atDalal’s encouragement. Molinelli, however, said he willnot rule out the possibility that continued investigationof the defendants’ computers may reveal otherco-conspirators.

Perhaps the most disturbing revelation was thatbetween Rutherford attack, on Jan. 11, and Graziano’sarrest 13 days later, Molinelli began to worry that the next

attack might be against not another county synagogue — which were all the subject of stepped-up police patrols —but against a residence in a Jewish neighborhood.

“When you start to prepare for things, you hope forthe best, but you prepare for the worst,” said Molinelli.“So we were looking and were beginning to try toassemble — if he was going to hit in a residential area, where would he hit, where would he throw the Molotov cocktail?”

The prosecutor had high praise for the level of community cooperation during the investigation. Hesingled out two people — Etzion Neuer of the Anti-Defamation League and Joy Kurland, of the JewishCommunity Relations Council of the Jewish Federationof Northern New Jersey — for special praise. “They did a wonderful job in helping to ease concerns in thecommunity,” he said, adding that they also providedinvaluable assistance to the investigation itself.

The conversation began with Molinelli acknowledging The Jewish Standard’s role in the case, which consistedof forwarding a web site comment fingering Dalal tothe prosecutor’s office. “The first blog that came to our

attention, that identified Dalal as a person of interest,”he said, “was your publication,” referring to The JewishStandard.

What follows is an edited version of that interview.

Q: What do you know about Aakash Dalal?Molinelli: I can never be overly specific about what

we do, but we confirmed early on that he was somebody who had a history of certain anti-government, anti-Semitic [behavior]. He wasn’t just anti-Semitic, he’s anti

everything. So I can’t really identify that it’s just aboutanti-Semitism….He’s just anti-government, but unlikeMr. Graziano, [he’s] a very aggressive type, one that showsan open disdain for government, for authority. Since[his arrest], we’ve read certain accounts from even hisclassmates in high school, even his former coach in highschool, that we didn’t have when we arrested him.

Of course, Mr. Graziano never told us about Mr.Dalal; we came upon Mr. Dalal on our own….We justdidn’t tell anyone that. [The investigation] took awhilebecause some of the investigation against Mr. Dalal wasthe forensic investigation on the computer, which takestime. Even as efficient as our computer crimes unit andthe FBI are, it still takes time. [Graziano and Dalal] both wiped [and] reformatted their computers, did everything that people with computer knowledge do to try andstop us from finding this information. But that usually isunsuccessful….

Once we started to get some of the forensic work

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“If he was going to hit in a residentialarea, where would he hit, where wouldhe throw the Molotov Cocktail?”

— John Molinelli



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[back], we knew that [Dalal] had a muchmore significant involvement in thesynagogue bombings here in BergenCounty. And after we investigated further, what had been a home run turned intoa real, real great case, because we werethen able to solve the two spray-painting incidents, which we were really having atough time matching people with them.

We seized, of course, spray paint cansfrom the Graziano house. We were sending out paint scrapings from both of thesynagogues, trying to compare the paint, which you cando, from the cans that we seized. You know, it was a very difficult process.

But there was also something that was inconsistent with it. Graziano was very, in a way, a somewhat passiveperson in his beliefs. He kept them very quiet, he didn’tspeak a lot about them, at least not to people we dealt with.

So to spray paint, we kind of wondered why, why would he do this? That’s why we never matched him up with the process. But when we arrested Mr. Dalal, thatthen tied both Dalal and Graziano to both of the spray-painting incidents. Which, when you consider we startedthis in January with absolutely no clues, nothing, and fiveincidents of violence, law enforcement did a pretty good job on this one.

Q: So you believe Dalal was also spray painting on thesynagogues?

Molinelli: Yes he was. He was with Mr. Graziano onboth occasions. He was not with Mr. Graziano during thefirebombing incidents; Graziano did those alone. But he was with Mr. Graziano in the spray-painting incidents. And the interaction between Dalal and Graziano is oneof, ‘You better do a better job. Okay, you did the spray painting, now do more.’ And that’s why you see thisprogressive change, this increase in violence levels, inevery new site.

The incident that would have taken place at the JCCin Paramus was not as severe as Rutherford, becauseRutherford was an occupied building. But [it wouldhave been] more severe than the [Congregation K’hal Adath Jeshurun] Arnot Place incident in Paramus. So if

you take the very first spray-painting, then he moved tothe second spray-painting incident, then Arnot Place inParamus, which was his first involvement with one ortwo very crudely made bottles filled with accelerants,to the [Paramus] JCC, where now he had a considerablenumber of Molotov cocktails and spray cans, but only because a police officer interrupted him did he stop,leaving everything behind.

And then he goes on to Rutherford, and you can seehow he’s progressing to Rutherford and why he choseRutherford — because Rutherford was an old woodenstructure.

When I went inside the Congregation Beth El inRutherford, I remember walking up the stairs to meetthe rabbi, and when you walk in old houses, you hearthat creak that is very unique to homes built in the late1800s….

Q: Does Dalal have any prior arrests?Molinelli: I’ll just say no. I normally can’t answer if he

did, but I’ll be perfectly honest with you. Neither one of them have any priors.

Q: I was reading that the defense attorney for Dalal was saying, it’s not a crime to be sending texts back andforth. What’s the line that turns egging someone on intoa criminal offense?

Molinelli: When Dalal’s defense attorney made thatstatement, he was not then, nor is he yet, fully aware of allthe discovery in the case. So I’m not going to hold him to what he said. Because based upon what he knew then…,he probably was under the impression that all we weretalking about was just communication back and forth.But there’s a lot about this case that he did not know then

— and probably still does not know because we really don’t share discovery until there’san indictment.

…[E]gging someone else on to commita crime, that’s a crime. It’s conspiracy,particularly when you’re giving advice onhow to do it, when you’re educating theperson how to do it, when you’re enticing them to do it. It’s not a hard line.

You can always argue, “Well, I wasonly kidding.” That might work withone instance, maybe, and if right after ithappened we start seeing e-mails back from Dalal saying, “My God, what did you

do, I was only kidding, you fool, you could have killedsomeone,” that’s a much different scenario….

Over the course of five incidents, I don’t have aconcern of a jury’s review of this type of case as being oneof kidding around. There’s no kidding around here.

Q: What’s the time-frame going forward?Molinelli: I can’t say. I’m not the one that’s actually

going to be presenting it. But there’s no reason why sometimes by the summer, mid-summer — let’s just say by the fall, there should be presentments to a grand jury. And then it’s up to them whether to indict or not.

Q: Then assuming there’s an indictment?Molinelli: That’s up to the court. I’ve got cases in this

building right now, where I have a judge telling me it hasto go out right away, that are 11 months old, and I’ve gota major case that is now two years old that I can’t seem

to get the court to start. So it’s all up to the court, timing,availability of counsel. I know that [public defenderRobert] Kalisch, who is a good lawyer, has indicatedsomething about a defense of insanity for Mr. Graziano.That certainly would really delay things somewhatbecause now you’re involving doctors and psychiatricreports. I don’t know if that’s his intention after theDalal arrests, but that’s certainly — he tends to be very aggressive, tends to do a very good job in defending hisclients. He’s a very good representative of the publicdefender’s office.

Q: Tell me about the interruption at the Paramus JCC. What happened there?

Molinelli: The JCC was going to be a site for afirebombing. He had many Molotov cocktails set up. Heput cans or spray cans in front of the building and wasprepared to start the fire. We think a Paramus policevehicle came close and he stopped and ran away, leaving both his bike and all his Molotov cocktails. It was hisintention to go back, but we caught him shortly after theRutherford incident.

He welcomed the publicity after the Rutherfordincident, but I’m not sure he realized just how fast law

enforcement can move. I don’t think he thought he would be caught, at least that quickly.Q: And that was really because of the cameras at

Walmart?Molinelli: It was good police work that went to the

Walmart, that found a receipt for someone who justhappened to buy everything that was used in theRutherford bomb, and then having Walmart have thecameras that showed him. Definitely a huge help in thecase. Because once we broadcast the person’s picture,in a very, very short period of time — when you get a lotof tips calls saying, “it’s Anthony Graziano,” it does tend

Molinelli f M Pa 6

Anthony Graziano

ee M p ge

“It was good police work that weto the Walmart, that found a receifor someone who just happened tbuy everything that was used in thRutherford bomb...”

—John Molin

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to have credibility when a lotof people called in. They all wanted that $10,000 [reward],I think. Though I do think thatsome people called in over atrue desire for Mr. Graziano tobe stopped. A lot of them, thesecond question was, “Whatabout the money?”

There are two who willshare in the money.

Q: The first two?Molinelli: They actually called kind of independent

of one another, but they each had equally credibleevidence. So to try to distinguish between them would beimpossible.

Q: Evidence?Molinelli: Information that this is the person in the

picture.If we had a tip with evidence of what happened, we

would be much more interested in that person. But noneof them had that.

Q: What do you make of the community response?Molinelli: I can’t compliment enough the Anti-

Defamation League and the Jewish Federation [of Northern New Jersey] in Paramus. Those two, EtzionNeuer from the Anti-Defamation League and [theJCRC’s] Joy Kurland, they did a wonderful job in helping to ease concerns in the community, which I appreciatedvery much.

There was a lot of pressure on our office. But the lastthing you want to do is just run out and grab someone

because the public demands that there be an arrest.That takes education, it takes a bit of compassion. And

fortunately education, patience, and compassion arethree traits of our beloved Jewish community here inBergen County. And Joy and Etzion did a great job of facilitating that. They held at least three or four eventsthat I know of. I attended one of them, the one out inRandolph, and they had the same message: “Look, let law enforcement do their job. We have the FBI; we have theattorney general’s office; we have the prosceutor’s office; we have to work with them.”

Etzion did a great job getting it from a thousand-dollarreward up to a $10,000 reward. That was really throughhis efforts.

And that is a wonderful thing to have, when you havea community working with you. Because, unfortunately,I have some cases in the office where the community works against me. And when they do that, what happensis it raises the public’s concern…, and then when thepublic begins to get concerned over an issue when they should not, but they’ve got these red herrings out there,

these issues being throwing out that have nothing todo with the case but gives them cause for concern…,that’s the last thing that I need. I’m not suggesting youas a member of the media do that, but there are somemembers of the media that get their message across by making people afraid of something.

I think that the media and the Jewish community didan exemplary job in helping to alleviate the concerns by telling people, “look, you’re at risk, be more cautious, bemore aware, if you suspect something, call, but let’s letthe process move ahead. So trust in your governmentofficials, this is what they’re paid to do, they do a very good job at it, and let them get it done.”

And, of course, the arrests were made. I am very, verycomfortable with them.

The last thing you want todo is create this lynch mobenvironment, and the firstperson who might remotely be connected with an incidentnow becomes the target,

now has their picture on thefront of the paper. Look, the job of a prosecutor is not just to go out and make thatarrest. It’s to make sure that

what law enforcement is doing is thorough, is correct, isaccurate….

I have some murder cases I solve in less than tenhours. I have murder cases that are now over a year, andI haven’t solved them yet. I have an idea how it happens, we often have ideas of who did it, but I can’t stand beforea jury and say, “this man stands accused of murderbecause I think he did it.” That doesn’t go very far withour law and rightfully so.

We have this document, it’s called the Constitution.Sometimes law enforcement might think it gets in the way, but I don’t. That’s what makes us as strong as we are.So I have this obligation and I accept it. I have to makesure what I do is fair to everyone, including the person who is accused. Including Mr. Graziano and Mr. Dalalthemselves. They will get a fair trial.

Q: Is there a tension between the motto, “If you seesomething, say something” and what we were taught asfive year olds about the boy who cried wolf?

Molinelli: I’m a little older than you. When I was five, it was “duck and roll” [regarding the potential of an atomicbomb attack].

The boy who cried wolf. I think you should always erron the side of caution, but be realistic in terms of what you are perceiving and what you say. But I don’t think there’s a police chief —

The local police, by the way, is still the best first call. We have ideas about a county prosecutor, we haveideas about the FBI and the Secret Service. They’re all wonderful, exceptional, professional law enforcementorganizations. but if something happens in your town,that first phone call is your local police. [The local police]knows your town better than anybody.

For example, you see something suspicious acrossthe street and you call the FBI. Well, now you’re involving two or three FBI agents. They start putting in their tipsprogram, they start running intelligence….

But if you call the local police department, “I wantto report suspicious activity, the house across the streetfrom me has lights going on and off, and people arecoming in and out, and the house is dark,” [you getan answer like] “Sir, they had an electrical problem inthe house, those are electricians coming in and out.The reasons the lights are going on and off is becausethey’re having problems with their electricity. And thereason why I know that is they came in and applied for apermit today and they told us the lights would be going on and off.” Now, the FBI doesn’t know that. But yourlocal department knows that, which is why always makethat first call [to them]. And don’t worry about being the person who cried wolf. If you see something, say

something. Call the local police, because they know yourtown better than anyone.Q: What’s the line where a case goes from the town to

the county prosecutor?Molinelli: Under attorney general directives, any

bias intimidation event that happens in the county, wehave to be immediately notified. The local police stillinvestigate it, but we have to be notified because we attimes will exercise a greater level of control over it.

Now, in the Maywood and Hackensack incidents, we were notified. We actually went to the scene because it’s abias intimidation offense.

Molinelli f M Pa 10

tzion euer Joy Kurland

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“We have this document, it’s calledthe Constitution. Sometimes lawenforcement might think it gets in theway, but I don’t.”

— John Molinelli




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Bias intimidation always is a crimethat’s on the books now, but is committedfor reasons based on religion, race, creed,sexual orientation. A lot of people think that making a comment or saying aracial or an ethnic slur is a bias crime. Itis not. A bias crime requires two things:It’s an underlying crime. And in theMaywood and Hackensack incidents it was “malicious damage to property.” It’s acrime. It’s a disorderly person, but it’s stilla crime.

And if you normally spray-paintsomebody’s house, you know, “Giantsrule!” something like that, that’s maliciousdamage. It’s a disorderly person’s offense.But if you do it because of the person’sreligion, in this case at a congregation, with anti-Semitic pro-Nazi remarks…, we

automatically have to be notified. We alsonotify the [state] attorney general’s office.There’s an automatic notification process.

When the [Arnot Place] incident inParamus occurred, then it became ourdirect investigation. It was still a biasintimidation, but now the underlying offense was arson. Under the attorney general directives, we are the firstinvestigating authority on all arsonsin Bergen County. And that’s the sameas every other prosecutor’s office in

the state. That’s when we took over theinvestigation. We took the Maywoodspray-painting, we took the Hackensack spray-painting, and we now had threecases.

And then Rutherford.Q: Do you have any sense of whether

the group of people was any wider?Did Dalal and Garziano have any otherfriends?

Molinelli: Don’t know. Don’t know that yet. I have not nor will I rule it out. Thiscase always has a continuing life, long after people go home. Obviously, peopleshould feel much more secure in theirhomes right now, but we will continueto look to see whether or not there aremore individuals involved in the process.Hopefully not, but we don’t assume the

negative, either.Q: So you’re continuing to analyze their

computers?Molinelli: Correct.Q: How did this case compare to the

challenges of other cases?Molinelli: In terms of the pressure on

law enforcement, I equate it very closely to the shooting of police officer Mary AnnCollura in Fair Lawn several years ago,in that someone had shot and killed apolice officer, which is one of the ultimateoffenses against all of us, it’s against the

fabric of law enforcement, it’s against thefabric of our security. When a police officeris shot and killed, it raises the level of effort because it goes to the very heart andfoundation of what we in law enforcementdo….[T]he pressure on the office wassubstantial, because something bad hashappened.

In this case, the pressure was equal . Yes,something bad had happened, but there was the risk of its continuing. Pressure was there. Whenever someone’s out thereand causing past harm and future harm topeople, the pressure — and rightfully so —the pressure is high….

In this case, how widespread was thepressure? We had 71 synagogues andcommunity centers in this county. I know that because that’s how many we had tosweep with the dogs. Not to mention well-recognized residential neighborhoods where there was a high density of peopleof the Jewish faith, which in my judgment were potential targets. Certain areas of Passaic Park and Passaic. Certain areasof communities that surround us werepotential targets. We weren’t just limiting itto congregations and temples and Jewishcommunity centers. If there were well-defined, well-recognized neighborhoods where a lot of people of the Jewish faithresided, we felt that was a potential target.

We were actually — if I could ask you totake something back to your community,one thing I didn’t know and I wish I wouldhave known: I wish I would have known,or had a better idea how to go out intothe community on a localized basis andfind those residential neighborhoods where there were higher concentrations of people of the Jewish faith living.

I had people with me. I had Joy, I hadEtzion. We knew certain areas.

But, for example, I would have likedto have known where all the installederuvs are, in all of Bergen County. Because

there, I know, there is something evenan educated non-Jewish will know, thatJewish people reside, because they willunderstand why there is this eruv….[F]orsomebody who does not know what they are, you can look up and not know what you’re looking at. But for somebody whodoes know what they are, you know whatit is. So you immediately know, this is anarea where people of the Jewish faith live.

I didn’t know that the person who’sthrowing these firebombs wouldn’t know that. Okay, he knows we’re looking at him,he’s gone to congregations and temples,and he knows we have the eye out for him,he knows we’re sweeping, we’ve got thedogs and stuff like that. Okay, what’s hegoing to do next?

He’s going to go to Teaneck where

along this three-block area that has aneruv….And then he’ll just pick a house.God forbid he picks a house. With eightchildren.

So that’s how you have pressure.It’s very comparable to the Collura

shooting in the need to work professionally and quickly, and the need to deal with acommunity that is a bit alarmed….

Q: When you had a fear that the nexttarget might be residential, how did yourespond?

Molinelli: I didn’t have a direct fear.

Molinelli f M Pa 12

“We will continue to look tosee whether or not there aremore individuals involved inthe process. Hopefully not,but we don’t assume thenegative.” — John Molinelli




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To Register:Whether you or someone you know is 65or older, call 201-784-1414 Ext. 5532 byMarch 29th to register.

Volunteers Needed!YOU can help the Jewish Home perform

this mitzvah by volunteering to helpdeliver meals! Call 201-750-4237to volunteer.

Please join us at our Sixth Annual Breakfast

S top A busive R elationships A t H ome

Highlighting Project S.A.R.A.H.’s

Prevention Efforts

Honoring Rabbi Larry and Chaviva Rothwachs

of Congregation Beth Aaron Rabbinic Supporter Award

Stuart Kahan and Yossi Markovic of Ma’adanCommunity Service Award

Rhonda Avner and Fran Weinberg Volunteer Recognition Award

Sarah Lerer

Aleinu Hero Award

Keynote Speaker Dr. Esther Deblinger

S DAY, MARC 18, 20129:30 - 11:30 a.m.

Congregation Bnai Yeshurun641 West Englewood Avenue, Teaneck, NJ 07666

When you start to prepare for things, you hope for thebest, but you prepare for the worst. I didn’t have anything that would indicate he would look at a residential area,but I didn’t want to have something happen and thenhave people say, we didn’t think of it.

Sure, there are certain areas of Teaneck andEnglewood and Fair Lawn and Passaic Park that we candefine but otherwise, it was a lot more difficult thanone would think. Unless you go to the local synagogue,

the local rabbi, and say, could you please tell us, should we have a concern in your community, other than yourtemple, should we have a concern? We knew where therabbis lived. That we knew very early on. We knew that,and that’s where the local police did a great job. In eachcommunity that had a synagogue or a congregation or acenter, they were all instructed to go on high aler t on thatfacility, as well as the rabbi’s residence.

We also went on a higher alert for certain facilitiesattributed to the Muslim community, because while wefelt that this person was anti-Semitic, we didn’t discountthe fact that he was like Mr. Dalal, more of an agnostic,hardline, anti-government kind of individual, wheretoday it’s people of the Jewish faith, and tomorrow he would be burning crosses on an African American’s lawn,or throwing a Molotov cocktail through a mosque. Wedidn’t assume anything. We prepare for the worst and we hope for the best. That’s a common approach for law enforcement.

Q: Have you found any manifesto from Dalal?

Molinelli: We have indications but I’m reluctant toshare them with you. I’m not sure how real they were.There’s a bit of narcissism we have to deal with here, and Itake that into consideration….

Q: How big an office do you have?Molinelli: 120 detectives. Total [just in] Major Crimes,

about 30.On this case, just in my office I had 60 detectives. But

if you were adding all the police officers countywide that

were protecting synagogues and the rabbis, the FBI staff,the [state] attorney general’s staff, the dogs from all overthe state — probably in the hundreds, if you add themtogether….In the hundreds, easily.

Q: Is there any news on the Cantor case? [RobertCantor, a 59-year-old software engineer, was found shotto death in his basement in Teaneck at around 1 a.m. onMarch 8, 2011.]

Molinelli: There’s always news. It’s important that when we do an investigation that we do it withoutnecessarily anything getting out. Somebody is on theloose and…when someone is on the loose, the last thing I want to do is to tell you what I know about the Cantorcase. Because if I tell you what I know about the Cantorcase, you’re going to very eloquently type out a nicestory and then people will read about it. Well, guess whoelse will read that story? The person who committed themurder. So why should I let the person who committedthe murder know what I know…?

My job right now is to find out who killed Mr. Cantor

and then to insure that that person is arrested, and thenis prosecuted vigorously, and thoroughly, and fairly.

They [Cantor’s family and friends, some of whom evenhired a private investigator last summer because they were not satisfied with the official investigation] think they know who it is. I’m not going to arrest somebody because they think so. “Ladies and gentlmen of the jury,I’ve arrested Mr. Jones for killing Mr. Cantor. I’m notprepared to tell you what the proofs are yet, but they

think he did it.”…What’s the jury going to do?….I’m okay with criticism, because it’s our human

nature. It doesn’t actually bother me. My skin is about 30miles thick. It better be. Because if you don’t have thick skin, this is the last job that you want….

Q: How much bias crime is there in Bergen County?Molinelli: Fortunately, I don’t think we have a lot. We’re

lucky. But it exists. And it’s usually either anti-Semiticor anti-gay, usually. Both are equally repugnant in my mind, but fortunately, [it’s] a small number, not a big number. And very fortunately, [it’s] rarely violent. Usually,malicious damage, spray painting, throwing a rock at a window. Usually.

The firebombing incident in Rutherford definitely was the most severe incident that ever happened in thiscounty, and I think statewide as well, which is why thestate, even the governor, was very much aware of what was going on….

Q: Thank you.

an interview with john molinelli

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