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95-582 GOV Updated August 18, 1995

Branch Davidian Siege at Ranch Apocalypse Near Waco, Texas: A Chronology

Suzanne Cavanagh Specialist in American National Government

and David Teasley

Analyst in American National Government Government Division

SUMMARY

This report provides a chronology of events leading up to the 51-day siege by Federal agents of the Branch Davidians in Waco, TX, and its aftermath.

INTRODUCTION

The 51-day siege by Federal agents. of the Branch Davidians led by David Koresh, also known as Ver\lon Howell, ended on April 19, 1993, with the fiery destruction of the compound. Four ATF agents and several Branch Davidians died in the initial shootout on February 28. After the destruction of the compound, the remains of 75 people (50 adults and 25 children under the age of 15) were found in the ruins of the compound. In :ddition, to the 75 bodies, five other bodies were found, all with gunshot wounds and presumably killed during the Feb. 28 shootout. Nine adults survived the blaze that destroyed the compound. Below is 6. chronology of events compiled from press accounts.!

CHRONOLOGY

1929-1931

1955-1981

Victor Houteff forms a religious organization called first 'The Shepherd's Rod," and later the "Davidian Seventh-Day Adventists,' after he breaks with a Seventh-Day Adventist church in Los Angeles. Around 1935, Houteff moves to a place he calls Mount Carmel, about 10 miles from Waco, TX. He and his followers recruit new members until his death in 1955.

The Mount Carrnelleadership passes to Houteffs widow Florence and then to Ben Roden in 1962. After Roden's his death in 1978, his widow Lois Roden becomes the new leader. Vernon Howell, later known as David Koresh, arrives in 1981 at Mount Carmel as handyman to Mrs. Roden.

! Fort Worth Star Tekgram., New York Times, Washington Post, Washington Times, b and Facts on File . ~

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1981-1986

1986-1988

Nov. 1987

1988

Aug. 1990

1990-1991

CRS-2

A split between Howell and George Roden, son of Ben and Lois Roden, deepens. Howell and his followers leave Mount Cannel and acquire property in Palestine, TX. Howell changes his name to David Koresh, claiming to be Christ in accordance with a vision from God. Koresh preaches his belief that the end of time is at hand and that he has come to intercede for humanity.

Koresh seeks recruits in Hawaii and then in countries outside the U.S., including the U.K., Canada, and Australia.

Arguing over leadership of the Branch Davidians, Koresh engages in armed conflict with George Roden at the compound. Koresh, Roden, and their followers are arrested by local authorities.

Koresh is not convicted of charges brought against him, but Roden is imprisoned on unrelated contempt of court charges. Koresh moves to the Mount Carmel compound after reportedly obtaining $68,000 from an unknown source to pay back taxes.

Police in LaVerne, CA make two raids on a house there owned by Koresh. Three warrants reportedly are issued for the statutory rape of children said to be between 12 and 13 years old. Also, several court cases in Michigan and elsewhere are in process over the custody of the children, continuing into 1992.

Koresh assumes his new name kgally in 1990; the compound's name changes from "Mount Cannel Center" to "RanCh Apocalypse."

~ Feb.-Apr. 1992 Australian media reports a. rumor that Koresh had called for a

Feb. 27, 1993

Feb. 28, 1993

Feb. 28-Mar. 26, 1993

Mar. 1, 1993

suicide/martyrdom on Easter morning, but media exposure and law enforcement awareness are said to have undermined these plans. Rumors circulate in Texas that a mass suicide has taken place at the compound.

The Waco Tribune-Herald begins publishing an investigative series on the Branch Davidians.

Around 75 BA TF agents, responding to allegations that the Branch Davidians possess illegal firearms, attempt to serve a Federal search warrant for the firearms and ail arrest warrant for Koresh. When the BATF agents make a "dynamic entry" of the fortress-like structure occupied by Koresh and followers, a gun battle ensues. Four BA TF agents and two Branch Davidians are reportedly killed, and more than 20 BA TF agents are wounded. Later reports place the estimated number of Branch Davidians killed in the gun battle to at least 15. During the battle, Koresh reportedly is wounded.

Thirty-six people (15 adults and 21 children) leave the compound.

The FBI is called in to oversee the siege of the compound, joining several other Federal law enforcement agencies already' involved in the investigation of the Branch Davidians. For example, before the February 28 raid, the Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS) had initiated an

Mar. 2, 1993

Mar. 12, 1993

Mar. 12-22, 1993

Apr. 2, 1993

CRS-3

investigation after allegations were made that illegal aliens were residing within the compound. Treasury Secretary Lloyd Bentsen states that when the siege is over, there would be an eva) uation of the BATF raid.

Koresh promises he will surrender on March 2, 1993, if he is allowed to deliver a radio address. Though the address is made, Koresh backs out of the plan, according to Federal officials, because he says God told him to wait.

Janet Reno is sworn in as the new Attorney General.

Federal agents increase the pressure on the Branch Davidians using a series of measures, while hoping to avoid further bloodshed. On Mar. 12, 1993, they turn off the electricity. Later, they use glaring floodlights on the compound as a defensive measure to blind the anned Branch Davidians, and stop them from identifying the positions of the agents. On March 21, the FBI begins playing a range of music, including songs by Mitch Miller, Andy Williams, and Nancy Sinatra as wen as chants of Tibetan monks and reveille. The FBI's report on the siege, released Oct. 8, 1993, notes that music continued to be played as late as Apr. 11, but provides no date for when it stopped.

During a hearing of the Senate Appropriations Subcommittee on the Treasury, Postal Service and General Government reviewing BATF's budget, BATF Director Stephen E. Higgens admits that the raid might have been flawed, a change from his earlier statements about the February raid.

Apr. 16-18, 1993 FBI agents continue clearing the grounds around the compound, begun in March; concertina wire was placed around it on Apr. 10.

Apr. 19, 1993

Apr. 20, 1993

The FBI uses tank-like combat vehicles fitted with battering rams, to spray tear gas into the compound between 6 and 9 that morning. Three hours later, fires break out in the compound. Federal agents reportedly believe that Koresh followers set the fires. The remains of 75 people (50 adults and 25 children under the age of 15) are found in the ruins of the compound. Among the Branch Davidians who died on April 19, over a dozen people, including Koresh, reportedly died of gunshot wounds. In addition to the 75 bodies, five other bodies were found, all with gunshot wounds and presumably killed during the shootout with AFT agents on Feb. 28. Nine adults survived the blaze that destroyed the compound.

President Clinton announced that he had instructed the Justice and Treasury Departments to begin an internal investigation of the Waco incident to determine if it might have been handled better. Two survivors from the compound claimed in court in Waco that the fire that destroyed the compound was started accidentally by the FBI when armored vehicles made contact with the compound walls, knocking over a container of lantern fuel and igniting bales of hay. Jeffrey Jamar, the FBI special agent in charge of the siege, denied this charge, stating that the FBI had no doubt that Branch Davidians within the compound started mUltiple fires.

Apr. 28, 1993

Apr. 29, 1993

May 3,1993

May 4,1993

CRS-4

The House Judiciary Committee holds a hearing on the Waco siege. The Attorney General and the BATF Director provided testimony.

The Treasury Department announces an administrative review of all aspects of BA TF's involvement at Waco. On May 3, 1993, it announced the selection of three people to oversee the review.

The Texas Rangers, who assumed primary responsibility for combing through the compound and recovering evidence, recover the bodies, 305 firearms, and approximately 1.9 million rounds of spent ammunition from the scene.

Bruce Peny, the chief of psychiatry at Texas Children's Hospital, authored a team report by therapists working with 19 of the 21 children who had Jeft the Branch Davidians during the siege. He described life within the compound, based on their descriptions, as a -misguided paramilitary community,- but did not confirm statements by the Attorney General that the children had been abused physically or sexually.

June 9-10, 1993 The House Appropriations Subcommittee on Treasury, Postal Service, and General Government held a hearing on BATF's law enforcement responsibilities, including its actions at Waco.

June 1993

July 13, 1993

Aug.G, 1993

Sept. 27, 1993

Sept. 30, 1993

Oct. 2, 1993

Deputy Attorney General Philip B. Heymann, head of the Justice Department's internal review of Waco, and Ronald K. Noble, Assistant Secretary for Enforcement at the Treasury Department, jointly announced the names of 1 ° people chosen to provide individual conclusions and recommendations on how best to address future situations like Waco.

An expert arson team completed its report on the cause of the fire, concluding that the fire was deliberately set by one or more persons inside the compound.

A superseding indictment was returned by a Federal grand jury in Waco, TX. charging 5 of the survivors and 7 others with conspiracy to murder Federal agents, as well as numerous other charges.

BA TF Director Stephen Higgins announced his retirement. In his letter to Treasury Secretary Lloyd Bentsen, Director Higgins disagreed with his supervisors' findings about Waco and with a proposal to move the enforcement powers of BATF to the FBI.

The Treasury Department released a report finding that several BA TF officials were culpable in the raid and placed 5 of them on administrative leave, pending further action. According to the report, the A TF officials chose to proceed with the raid once the element of surprise was lost, and later misleading statements were made and documents were altered regarding the raid.

Of the 5 BATF officials placed on administrative leave, two <the associate director and the deputy associate director) resign, stating their disagreement with the Waco administrative review's findings.

Oct. 8, 1993

Oct. 22, 1993

Oct. 28, 1993

Nov. 15, 1993

Dec. 1993

Feb. 26, 1994

June 17, 1994

July 8,1994

CRS-5

Attorney General Janet Reno commented on a report released by the Justice Department. It generally exonerated the Department and the FBI, finding that both agencies acted responsibly and placing the blame for the destruction of the compound on Branch Davidian leader David Koresh.

The House Appropriations Subcommittee on Treasury and Postal Service held a hearing on the Waco foUowup.

Two BATF agents, placed on administrative leave, are fired for their actions at Waco.

Alan Stone, a Harvard University psychiatrist and one of the ten outside reviewers of the Justice Department's inquiry on Waco, released a separate report criticizing actions of the FBI and the Attorney General at Waco. The nine other reviewers had already submitted reports, some highly critical, along with the Justice Department report released in October. Dr. Stone stated his belief that the FBI had not engaged in intentional misconduct, but he argued that the FBI's assault on the compound contributed to the fire. Also, he questioned the use of CS-type tear gas in the compound, especially with children present. The FBI contested this, maintaining that they had negotiated with the Branch Davidians for almost 2 months and had worked to avoid the loss of life.

As part of a broad Justice Department response to criticisms of its handling of Waco, crisis training programs are expanded to include all senior department officials, including the Attorney General.

Eleven members of the Branch Davidians are acquitted of murder and conspiracy charges in a U.S. District Court in San Antonio, Texas. Five members were convicted of aiding and abetting the voluntary manslaughter of Federal officers. Two were convicted of weapons charges. During the seven-week-Iong jury trial, none of the defendants testified. Former Branch Davidian Kathryn Schroeder provided testimony as a government witness in exchange for the possibility of a lighter sentence. Although prosecutors did not obtain the verdicts they sought, Attorney General Janet Reno stated at a Washington, D.C. press conference, "it is clear that the jury recognized in its verdict that the killings of the four ATF agents were not justified."

The five members convicted of aiding and abetting the voluntaJy manslaughter of Federal officers on Feb. 26, 1994, are each sentenced to 40 years in prison; 1 ° years for voluntary manslaughter and 30 years for conspiracy-related weapons convictions. Also, the five were required to pay fines between $2,000 and $10,000. Three other members received, respectively, 15 years for machine gun-related violations and a fine of $50,000; 20 years for weapons and grenade violations and a fine of $2,000; and five years for a firearms violation and a fine of $2,500. Sarah Bain, forewoman of the jury, and another juror criticized the severity of the sentences, while the chief Federal prosecutor said that the defendants were "fairly and justly sentenced."

Government witness and former Branch Davidian Kathryn Schroeder is sentenced to 3 years in prison and fined $5,000.

Dec. 21, 1994

Jan. 5, 1995

Apr. 19, 1995

May 2,1995

May 7, 1995

July 14, 1995

July 26, 1995

Aug. 11, 1995

CRS-6

Two BATF officers fired for allowing the Feb. 28, 1993, raid on Waco are rehired by BATF. The officers were fired on Oct. 28, 1993, but successfully appealed the decision.

Officials from a range of organizations, including the American Civil Liberties Union and the National Rifle Association, met with Assistant Attorney General John Schmidt to protest Federal agents' alleged use of aggressive tactics against private citizens. Specifically, these officials urged the Justice Department to appoint a blue-ribbon commission to investigate Waco and other cases.

On the second anniversary of the Waco conflagration, a bomb destroyed the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma. Press accounts report that arrested suspect, Timothy McVeigh, was angered by the Federal Government's actions at Waco, and was present outside the Branch Davidian compound during the siege. Federal authorities reportedly believe that the Oklahoma bombing was an act of retaliation.

Attorney General Janet Reno names Larry Potts as FBI Deputy Director, the number two job at that agency. As Assistant FBI Director, Mr. Potts was in charge of FBI activity at Waco and at the Aug. 1992 siege of the Weaver family at Ruby Ridge, Idaho.

Speaker of the House Newt Gingrich questioned the promotion of acting FBI Deputy Director Potts.

Following a new investigation of FBI actions at the siege at Ruby Ridge, Idaho, in Aug. 1992, FBI Director Freeh announced the transfer of Larry Potts from the number two FBI position to the training division.

The House Government Reform and Oversight Subcommittee on National Security and the Judiciary Subcommittee on Crime begin ten days of joint hearings on Executive Branch actions at Waco.

FBI Director Freeh announces the suspension of four top FBI officials, including Larry Potts, former deputy director, pending further investigation of FBI actions at Ruby Ridge, Idaho.

I

I

s. lIRa. 104-824

THE AFfERMATH OF WACO: CHANGES IN FEDERAL LAW ENFORCEMENT

HEARINGS BEFORE THE

COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY UNITED STATES SENATE ONE HUNDRED FOURTH CONGRESS

FIRST SESSION

ON

EXAMINING CHANGES IN FEDERAL LAW ENFORCEMENT AS A RESULT OF THE INCIDENT IN WACO, TEXAS

OCTOBER 31 AND NOVEMBER 1, 1995

Serial No. J-I04-51

Printed for the use of the Committee on the Judiciary

u.s. GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE

WASHINGTON : 1997

For sale by the U.S. Government Printing Office Superintendent of Documents, Congressional Sales Office, Washington. DC 20402

ISBN 0-16-054375-4

l04th Congress } 2d Session COMMITrEE PRINT { Serial No. 12

MATERIALS RELATING TO THE INVESTIGATION INTO THE ACTIVITIES OF FEDERAL LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCIES TOWARD THE BRANCH DA VIDIANS

BY THE

COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY PREPARED IN CONJUNCTION

WITH THE

COMMITTEE ON GOVERNMENT REFORM AND OVERSIGHT

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

ONE HUNDREDTH FOURTH CONGRESS

SECOND SESSION

AUGUST 1996

Printed for the use of the Committees on the Judiciary and Government Reform and Oversight

38-020CC

U.S. GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE

WASHINGTON: 1997

For sale by the U.S. Government Printing Office Superintendent of Documents. Congressional Sales Office, Washington, DC 20402

ISBN 0-16-055211-7

l I i

I I i !

ADDITIONAL VIEWS OF HON. BOB BARR

The hearings into the 1993 Waco tragedy, conducted jointly in June 1995 by the Crime Subcommittee of the House Committee on the Judiciary and the Subcommittee on National Security, International Affairs, and Criminal Justice, of the House Committee on Government Reform and Oversight, was a painful expose of perhaps the greatest law enforcement tragedy in American history. Yet, it was a necessary exercise, because it gave those of us on the subcommittees, and all Americans, the opportunity to examine why it happened and to at least begin to implement steps to avoid a recurrence of the tragedy. It would not be a significant overstatement to describe the Waco operation from the Government's standpoint, as one in which if something could go wrong, it did. The true tragedy is, virtually all of those mistakes could have been avoided.

After nearly 2 weeks of hearings, the subcommittees closed down the proceedings, and moved on to other business. Now, over a year later, we have a report. While the report contains many conclusions that I believe are accurate and appropriate, along with several important recommendations, it fails to address several extremely important matters that came to light during the bearings and which deserve far more scrutiny than accorded heretofore.

I would hope that in the next Congress, followup hearings are held, and legislative measures introduced and passed. Avoiding tragedies such as Waco ought to be a top priority for the Congress and the administration.

Rather than repeat all the conclusions and recommendations of the report, many of which I agree with (especially those concerning the ATF, the Treasury Department failure to monitor, and the decisionmaking at the FBI and the top levels of the Justice Department), I will note those with which I have serious disagreement, from my perspective as a Crime Subcommittee member, as a former U.S. attorney, and as a citizen deeply concerned with the militarization of domestic law enforcement and the lack of accountability by Federal law enforcement.

MILITARIZATION OF LAw ENFORCEMENT

Law enforcement officials have long been required to abide by the Bill of Rights, enshrined in our Constitution. These principles underlie virtually everything they do in their. capacity as officers sworn to protect our citizens; and they limit wQat they can do in fulfilling their specific responsibilities.

However, with the phenomenal growth in the power of the Federal Government, touching virtually every facet of our lives-personal, business, educational, government, religious, recreational, etc.-there has developed a mentality on the part of law enforcement that they can do anything and not be held accountable for it. Along with this we have witnessed the development of a militaris-

(167)

168

tic approach to domestic law enforcement, in everything from dress (black military uniforms and helmets), to equipment (armored vehicles and military surplus helicopters), to outlook, to execution.

Our Armed Forces, in carrying out their mission to protect and project our national interests abroad, are not bound by the constitutional restraints placed on domestic law enforcement. This reflects the significant differences between conducting domestic law enforcement operations, and conducting warfare overseas. In a war situation, our Armed Forces do not and should not have to give "Miranda" warnings before shooting the enemy; they need not have "probable cause" before an attack. Domestically, our law enforcement officers must do these things.

Unfortunately, we saw in the Waco tragedy one logical result of the blurring of lines between domestic law enforcement and military operations: an operation carried out pursuant to a strategy designed to demolish an "enemy," utilizing tactics designed to cut off avenues of escape, drive an enemy out, and run roughshod over the "niceties" of caring for the rights of those involved. The protestations of the Attorney General to the contrary, that she authorized the injection of debilitating CS gas into closed interior quarters with no ventilation where dozens of women and children were concentrated, out of concern for the children do not match the Government's actions. While the report reflects this view to some extent, I believe very firm steps must be taken to "demilitarize" Federal domestic law enforcement, through substantive legislation and funding restrictions.

POSSE COMITATUS AND MILITARY INVOLVEMENT

While the report touches on the issue of military involvement in this operation, focusing primarily on disingenuous steps taken by the civilian law enforcement agencies in order to obtain military assistance without paying for it, my concerns go deeper.

I seriously question the role of military officers being involved in strategy sessions, on sight "observers" and the presence of foreign military personnel, and the use of military equipment such as armored vehicles. Contrary to the conclusion of the report, I am not convinced that the separation between military operations and domestic law enforcement, codified in the U.S. Code's "Posse Comitatus" provisions, was not violated in the Waco operation.

HOSTAGE RESCUE TEAMS

During the questioning of Attorney General Reno on the last day of the hearings, I asked her what specific steps had been taken by the Government to ensure that another Waco would not recur. The only specific step the Attorney General cited to me in response to • my question, was that the "Hostage Rescue Teams" (HRT's) had been expanded. The report agrees that HRT's should be expanded. I disagree.

In my view, based on the Waco incident (and others), part of the problem is the HRT's themselves; they are relied on too heavily, and are used in circumstances in which no hostages are present, or which do not lend themselves to HRT tactics. Rather than ex-

169

panding the size and use of HRT's, I believe they ought to be more carefully circumscribed, controlled and scaled back.

FLIR TAPES AND WHAT THEY SHOW

Forward Looking Infrared Radar (FLIR) was used by the Government, in cameras aboard helicopters and planes flying over the Branch Davidian compound on the day of the final assault. Portions of the FLIR tapes were shown at the hearings; these were under the control of the Government. Of course, the Government used the tapes to buttress its arguments that no shots were fired on April 19 (the day of the assault on the compound) from outside the compound into the compound, and that the fire that destroyed the compound was not started from the outside or by the Government vehicles.

Given the severe limitations on questioning by subcommittee members, and the inability to truly review and analyze the Government's evidence, I do not agree with the conclusions in the report that the evidence clearly establishes the Government's position on these issues.

On further examination of FLIR tapes, after the hearings, and in discussions with private parties who have reviewed the tapes, I believe sufficient questions have been raised to warrant further study of these two issues: were there shots fired from outside the compound into the compound on April 19th, and were the fires started-intentionally or unintentionally-by the armored military vehicles or personnel therein?

Unlike the report, I do not dismiss out of hand the civilian analyses of these tapes and other evidence. (On a related issue, I also believe further study ought to be made, and additional evidence examined, concerning the cause of the explosion that occurred during the fire on April 19.)

USE OF CS GAS

The Government's use of CS gas in the manner it did, that is, clearly designed to incapacitate men, women and children in a confined, unventilated space, after avenues of escape had been deliberately cut off, was unconscionable; as was the cursory manner in which the Government, and especially Attorney General Reno "bought into" the conclusory and simplistic analyses that the use of CS gas posed an "acceptable" level of risk.

The fact is, while experts may-and did-differ over the precise effects of CS gas on children, or how and in what ways the use of CS gas might act as a catalyst for a fire, no rational person can conclude that the use of CS gas under any circumstances against children, would do anything other than cause extreme physical problems and possibly death.

For the Government of this country to consciously use CS gas in the way it did on April 19, 1993, in Waco is utterly indefensible and should never be allowed to be repeated. I believe the deaths of dozens of men, women and children can be directly and indirectly attributable to the use of this gas in the way it was injected by the FBI.

170

I would go further than the report, and call for a prohibition on the use of CS gas in situations in which children or the elderly are present or are the targets.

THE FIRE

While the report concludes that the evidence clearly establishes that the fire that eventually consumed the Branch Davidian structure was started inside by the Davidians, I think that the most that can be said is that the fire may have been started inside, and even if it did, the evidence that it was deliberately set is inconclusive. I believe there is also the possibility that the fire, or at least some of the fires, may have been caused as a result of the demolishing efforts of the annored military vehicles. While there is no direct evidence that the fire was started from the outside, further study (of the FLIR tapes, for example) ought to be conducted.

ESCAPE

The report concludes that there was opportunity for the Davidians to escape. While obviously this is true----a handful did escape the maelstrom-I conclude there was no opportunity for the vast majority of the Davidians to have any hope of escape, because of the Government's tactics the morning of the 19th of April.

Essentially, the use of the armored vehicles, methodically smashing down portions of the building, cutting off avenues of escape (for example, smashing the walls down to cover the "escape" hatch to the tunnel out of the main building), intimidated the inhabitants into seeking "safety" in the one secure part of the structure (the concrete ''bunker'' in the center). With massive quantities of CS gas pumped into this area, it virtually guaranteed that most inhabitants would be incapacitated; which they were, and they died in the ensuing fire because of the incapacitating effects of the CS gas and the cutting off of escape routes.

BREACH OF ETHICS AND POSSIBLE OBSTRUCTION

One area of inquiry which I pursued during the hearings involved what clearly are breaches of ethics, and possible obstruction of justice by Government attorneys and investigators. This aspect of the hearings is completely overlooked by the report. Government documents clearly show deliberate efforts by Government attorneys to stop the collection of evidence and possibly cover up evidence the Government did not want to be available later on. While the Department of Justice went so far as to issue a news release during the hearings, to refute my conclusions, I consider it extremely serious; especially when considered with evidence that two of the ATF agents first disciplined and fired and then later reinstated and records sealed, to raise very troubling questions of ethical violations at best and obstruction at worst. Attorneys who testified at the hearings also raised serious concerns about the attitude and policies reflected in these documents.

Documents explicitly showed that "DOJ [Department of Justice] does not want Treasury to conduct any interviews. . . [that might] generate . . . material or oral statements which could be used for impeachment" of Government witnesses, and that hopefully if such

171

material is not gathered, "the passage of time will dim memories." (Memorandum from Treasury Assistant General Counsel for Enforcement, dated April 14, 1993.)

Earlier, on March 1, 1993, in interview notes, the ATF's initial "shooting review" of the February 28, 1993, initial assault at which time ATF agents fired their weapons, the ATF is advised to "stop the ATF shooting review because ATF was creating Brady material." (Note: "Brady" material is evidence that would tend to establish innocence or which could be used in mitigation of guilt.)

In handwritten notes, taken at some point during the siege, Government attorney Ray Jahn directs that interviews are to stop because exculpatory statements may be generated.

This pattern of activity to deliberately avoid collection of relevant evidence, because it might tend to establish a person's innocence, or, as is apparent from other documents, might embarrass the ATF, raises very troubling questions to say the least, about the interests of the Government in establishing the truth and in seeing that justice is done. Neither goal would be met under the circumstances evidenced by these documents. That the Department of Justice casually dismisses these concerns should be of concern to the Congress and to the people of this country.

COMMITTEE RULES AND RESTRICTIONS

The procedures under which these hearings were conducted did not lend themselves to adequate inquiry. Important evidence was not available because of tactics by the Government and minority members of the subcommittees to keep evidence out of our hands; such as the weapons taken by the Government from the burned Davidian compound. We were never able to test the weapons to establish whether they were in fact unlawful weapons as the Government charged (which provided a primary justification for the Government's initial action against Koresh and the Branch Davidians).

The method of questioning employed-in 5-minute increments, alternating back and forth between majority and minority-with no comity from the minority to provide both sides with longer periods within which to question, lent itself to a scenario whereby savvy witness (most Government witnesses are very familiar with how to answer questions and stall so as to use up large segments of the questioner's time) were able, time and again, to minimize or completely neutralize the member's ability to obtain answers to questions.

Starting out at the mercy of the minority to control and minimize the majority's ability to effectively question and elicit timely, forthcoming and nondilatory responses, set the stage for hearings much less productive than these could have been. Some exploration of instituting other methods of conducting investigative hearings ought to be explored. Moreover, many witnesses who simply did not answer members' questions, were allowed to escape with dilatory or nonresponsive tactics; which again limited the productivity of the hearings. .

172

CONCLUSIONS

Despite the severe limitations in procedure, and the other matters noted above, these hearings were extremely v~luable; perhaps historic. They resulted in very important evidence which, if properly followed-up, can help establish, through laws, regulations, and procedures, more effective and more accountable Federal law enforcement. However, that followup has not yet occurred, and many troubling questions, some going to the very integrity of the Government's actions and personnel, remain. These hearings in June 1995 should be viewed not as the conclusion of the efforts by the Congress to get to the bottom of the Waco tragedy, but the beginning of that process.

BOB BARR.

· 1995 Waco Hearings

House CommiUce Waco Investigation Day 1 Part 2 Judiciary Committee Crime Subcommittee Government Refonn and Oversight Committee National Security, International Affairs and Criminal

Justic Subcommittee Washington District of Columbia (United States) Rayburn House Office Building

ID: 66289 Date: 07/19/1995 Length: 4:24 Price: 5270.00 Deschamps, Robert, President. National District AnOrDeYs Asso. Goldstein, Gerald, Presidenl. National Assn. of Criminal Def. Lawyers Reavis, Dick, Author

Wright, Stuart. Author

Jahn, Ray, Assistant U.S. Anomey. Department of Justice

TIbbeduex, David, Member (Fmr.), Branch Davidian Cull

Jewell, Kiri, Member (Fmr.). Branch Davidian Cult

McMahon, Henry, Arms Merchant, Waco. TX

Barber, Gene. lieutenant (Fmr.). McLennan County. TX. Sheriff's Departmenl

Johnston, Bill, Assistanl u.s. Attorney, Department of Justice

In continuing testimony on 1993 raids on the Branch Davidian compound near Waco, Texas. survivors of the compound fire. former cult members, attorneys and others testified about the criminal activities occurring within the compound. such as the stockpiling of assault weapons and ammunition. Fourteen-year-old Ms. Jewell described being sexually molested by leader David Koresh when she was ten years old and a member of the cult. A panel of federal officials began testimony on the Treasury Department internal review of the Waco incidents.

1:00 Reavis. Stuart, Jabn panel 59:00 nbbedeux, Goldstein, Jewell. McMahon, Barber,

Deschamps panel 211:00 Johnston, Aguilera, Owen, Perry, Sarabyn,

Moulton, Dunagan panel

C 2000 Nalional Cable Satellite Corporation

House Committee

Waco Investigation Day 1 Part 3 Judiciary Committee Crime Subcommittee

Page 1

Government Refonn and Oversight Committee National Security, International Affairs and Criminal


ID: 66290 Date: 07/19/1995 Length: 1:35 Price: $120.00 Hartnett, Daniel, Deputy Director (Fmr.), Bureau of Alcohol. Tobacco. '" Firearms. E1b\

Johnston, Bill, Assistant U.S. Anomey. Department of Justice

Aguilera, David, Special Agent, Bureau of Alcohol. Tobacco. '" Firearms

Owen, Ed, Expert. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco. '" Farearms Perry, Bruce, Professor, Baylor College of Medicioe, Psychiatry

Sarabyn, Chuck. sUpervUor (Fmr.), Bureau of Akobol. Tobacco. '" Fireanns

Moulton, H. Geoffrey, Project Director. Department of die Treasury. Review Board

Dunagan, Earl. Special Agent (Fmr.), Bureau of Alcohol. Tobacco. " Fireanns

In continuing testimony on 1993 raids on the Branch Davidian compound near Waco, Texas, federal officials testified about the Treasury Department internal review of government actions during the crisis.

C 2000 National Cable Satellite Corporation

C-SPAN Archives • P.O. Box 2909 • West Lafayette,IN 47996-2909 Phone: 1-800-277-2698.· Fax: 1-765-497-9699 • Web: www.c-spanarchives.org

House Committee

Waco Investigation Day 1 Part 1 Judiciary Committee Crime Subcommittee Government Refonn and Oversight Committee National Security, International Affairs and Criminal


ID: 66226 Date: 07119/1995 Length: 2:22 Price: $150.00 Reavis, Dick. Author

Wright, Stuart. Author

The joint subcommittees are investigating the failed February 28. 1993 Alcohol. Tobacco and Fireanns Bureau raid on the Branch Davidian compound near Waco. Texas in which four ATF agents were killed. Also under investigation is the April 19 FBI raid on the compound with tanks and tear gas and the resultant fire in which 80 cult members died. including their leader David Koresh. Following opening statements by subcommittee members and a CNN video clip of the April 19 fire at the compound. two authors whose books severely criticized the ATF and the Treasury Department actions in the raids testified. Democrats complained that Republican subcommittee members used the National Rifle Association to help them prepare for the hearings.

2:00 Opening statements 103:00 CNN footage 106:00 Reavis. Wright panel

e 2000 National Cable Satellite Corporalion

1995 Waco Hearings

House Committee


lustic Subcommittee Washington District of Columbia (United States) Rayburn House Office Building

ID: 66247 Date: 0712011995 Length: 3:28 Price: $210.00 Sanders, Robert. Deputy Direclor (Fmr.). Bureau of AIcoboJ. Tobauo. & Firearms Ishimoto, Wade. Official. Sandia National Laboralories

Coonce, John. Official (fmr.). Drug Enforcement AdmjnisrratioD

Morrison, George. CUef (fmr.). Los AogeJes. CA. Police DepartmeDt

Bassett, Donald. Specialist (fmr.). FederaJ Bureau of bestigabOD

The joint subcommittees are investigating the failed February 28. 1993 Alcohol. Tobacco and Firearms Bureau raid on the Branch Davidian compound near Waco. Texas in which four ATF agents were killed. Also under investigation is the April 19 FBI raid of the compound with tanks and tear gas and the resultant fire in which 80 cult members died. including their leader David Koresh. Former federal officials and other law enforcement experts testified about the tactics and strategy involved in the two raids on the compound.

2:00 Opening statements 19:00 Parliamentary inquiries

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C-SPAN Archives • P.O. Box 2909 • West Lafayette,IN 47996-2909 Phone: 1-800-277-2698 • Fax: 1-765-497-9699 • Web: www.c-spanarchives.org

· 1995 Waco Hearings

House Committee



ID: 66313 Date: 07/2011995 Length: 2:54 Price: $180.00 Holmes, H. Allen. Assistant Secretary. Department of Defense

Pickler, John. Commander. U.S. Forces Command. Joint Task Force

Huffman, Walter, Judge Advocace Cieneral. U.s. Anny. Civil Division

Lindley, Phillip, Lieuteoant Colonel. U.S. Anny

Moreland, Robert, Officer. u.s. Anny

Petree, Mark, Officer. u.s. Anny Crain, Chris, Official. Department of Defense

Fitts, Steve, Officer. U.S. Army

In continuing testimony about 1993 raids on the Branch Davidian compound near Waco, Texas, Defense Department officials testified about their role in the two assaults on the compound.

0:00 All one panel

o 2000 National Cable SatelUte Corporation

House Committee



ID: 66317 Date: 0712011995 Length: 3:38 Price: $240.00 Sarabyn, Chuck, supervisor (fmr.). Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Ii Fueanns

Chojnacki, Phillip. Special Agent (Fmr.). Bureau of Alcohol. Tobacco. Ii F"UeamlS

Buford, William, Supervisor. Bureau of Alcohol. Tobacco. Ii Fuanns

Merletti, Lewis. Deputy Director. Department of the Treasury, Review Board

Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Fireanns officials testified about the planning of the February 28 assault on the compound.

0:00 All one panel

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House Comminee


Page 3



ID: 66321 Date: 07/2111995 Length: 2:13 Price: $150.00 Bentsen, Lloyd. Secretary (fmr.). Department of the Treasury

Higgins, Stephen, Director (Fmr.), Department of the Treasury, Bureau of Alcohol. Tobac Simpson, John, Deputy AssislaDt Secretary (fmr.), Department of the Treasury

Morrison, George, Chief (fmr.), Los Angeles, CA, Police Department

Sparks, Joyce, Official. Texas, auld ProtectiOD

Evans, Tim, Anomey

In continuing testimony about 1993 raids on the Branch Davidian compound near Waco, Texas, federal officials testified about the decision-making process involved in both raids on the compound and others testified about criminal investigations into David Koresh and Branch Davidian activities.

0:00 Bentsen, Higgins, Simpson panel cont. 94:00 Sparks, Evans panel

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House Conuninee



ID: 66322 Date: 0712111995 Length: 2:12 Price: $150.00 Morrison, George. Chief (fmr.). los Angeles. CA. Police Department

Sparks, Joyce, Official, Texas. Child ProtectiOD

EvaDS,l1m,An~

Kolman, John, Officer (Fmr.), Los Aogeles County. CA. Sheriff's Department

Oboyski, Victor, PresideDt, Law Enforcement Officers AssociatioD

In continuing testimony about 1993 raids on the Branch Davidian compound near Waco, Texas, law enforcement officials testified about criminal investigations into David Koresh and Branch Davidian activities.

C 2000 National Cable Satellite COJpOnItion

C-SPAN Archives • P.O. Box 2909 • West Lafayette,1N 47996-2909 Phone: 1-800-277-2698 • Fax: 1-765-497-9699 • Web: www.c-spanarchives.org

1995 Waco Hearings

House Committee House Committee Waco Investigation Day 3 Part 1 Waco Investigation Day 4 Part 2 Judiciary Committee Judiciary Committee Crime Subcommittee Crime Subcommittee Government Reform and Oversight Committee Government Reform and Oversight Committee National Security, International Affairs and Criminal National Security, International Affairs and Criminal

Justic Subcommittee Justic Subcommittee Washington District of Columbia (United States) Washington District of Columbia (United States) Rayburn House Office Building Rayburn House Office Building

ID: 66263 Date: 0712111995 Length: 2:20 Price: $150.00 ID: 66330 Date: 07/24/1995 Length: 0:56 Price: $60.00 Bentsen, Lloyd. Secretary (fmr.), Department of the Treasury Altman, Roger. Deputy Secretary (Fmr.), Depanmenl of Ibe Treasury

Higgins, Stephen, Director (Fmr.), Depanment of the Treasury, Bureau of Alcohol, TobaccllB~ Daniel. Deputy Director (Fmr.), Bureau of Alcohol. Tobacco. &: Firearms. &fer

Simpson, John, Deputy Assistant Secretary (Fmr.). Department of the Treasury Black, Dan. Official. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco. &: ruearms. Personnel

Cuyler, Christopher. Uaison. Bureau of Alcohol. Tobacco. '" Firearms Sarabyn, Chuck, Supervisor (fmc.). Bureau of Alcohol. Tobacco. &: Firearms

Langan, Michael. Deputy Assistant Secretary (Fmc.). Department of the Treasury Chojnacki, Phillip. Special Agenl (Fmr.). Bureau of Alcohol. Tobacco. &: Fireanns

The joint subcommittees are investigating the failed February 28. 1993 Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms Bureau raid on the Branch Davidian compound near Waco. Texas in which four ATF agents were killed. Also under jnvestigation is the April 19 FBI raid on the compound with tanks and tear gas and the resultant fire in which 80 cult members died. including their leader David Koresh. Federal officials. including former Treasury Secretary Bentsen. testified about the decision-making process involved in both raids on the compound

0:00 Parliamentary inquiries 6:00 Opening statements 34:00 Bentsen. panel

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Merletti, Lewis, Deputy Director. Depanmcut of the Treasury. Review Board

Williams, John. Special Agent. Bureau of Alcohol. Tobacco. '" Firearms

Rodriguez, Robert. Special Agent, Bureau of Alcohol. Tobacco. '" Firearms

Cadigan, James. Specialist. Federal Bureau of Investigation. Fueanns

Wheeler, Sharon. Special Agent. Bureau of Alcohol. Tobacco. & Firearms

In continuing testimony on 1993 raids on the Branch Davidian compound near Waco. Texas. ATF officials and others testified about the February 28 raid on the Branch Davidian compound and whether the raid should have been aborted.


C-SPAN Archives· P.O. Box 2909 • West Lafayette,IN 47996-2909 Phone: 1-800-277-2698 • Fax: 1-765-497-9699 • Web: www.c-spanarchives.org

1995 Waco Hearings

House Comminee


Justic Subcommittee Washington Disuict of Columbia (United States) Rayburn House Office Building

ID: 66331 Date: 07n4l1995 Length: 1:45 Price: $120.00 Noble, Ronald, Assistant SeaeWY. Depanment of the Treasury. Enforcement

Magaw, John, Director (Fonner). Bureau of Alcohol. Tobacco. & Firearms

In continuing testimony on 1993 raids on the Branch Davidian compound near Waco, Texas, Assistant Secretary Noble rebutted arguments that his report on the Waco incidents was a cover-up. The reported was extremely critical of some Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms officials. Director Magaw, installed as the new ATF director after the Noble report, described extensive structural and procedural changes in the agency in an attempt to rebuild public confidence.

C 2000 National Cable Satellite CorporaIioa

House Committee

Waco Investigation Day 4 Part 4 Judiciary Conuilitlee Crime Subcommittee Government Refonn and Oversight Committee National Security, International Affairs and Criminal


ID: 66332 Date: 07/2411995 Length: 2:52 Price: $180.00 Noble, Ronald, Assistant Secretary. Depanmcnt of the Treasury. Enforcemeat

Magaw, John, Director (Former). BUJeaU of Alcohol. Tobaa:o. '" F"uearms

In continuing testimony on 1993 raids on the Branch Davidian compound near Waco, Texas, Assistant Secretary Noble rebutted arguments that his report of the Waco incidents was a cover-up. The report was extremely critical of some Bureau of AJcohol, Tobacco and Fireanns officials. Director Magaw, installed a the new ATF director after the Noble report, described extensive structural and procedural changes in the agency in an attempt to rebuild public confidence.

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PageS



ID: 66308 Date: 07n411995 Length: 3:03 Price: $180.00 Altman, Roger, Deputy Secretary (Fmr.). Department of the Treasury

Hartnett, Daniel, Deputy Director (Fmr.). Bureau of AkOOol. Tobacco. '" Fireanns.. EDfOl

Black, Dan, Official. Bureau of Alcohol. Tobacco. &: F"uearms. Personnel

Sarabyn, Chuck, Supervisor (Fnv.). Bureau of Alcohol. Tobacco. '" F'ueanns Chojnacki, Phillip, Special Agent (Fmr.). Bureau of Alcohol. Tobacco. '" Firearms

Burord, William. Supervisor. Bureau of Alcohol. Tobacco. '" Firearms

Merletti, Lewis, Deputy Director. Department of the Treasury. Review Board

Williams, John, special Agent, Bureau of Alcohol. Tobaa:o. '" Firearms

Rodriguez, Robert, Special Agent. Bureau of Alcohol. Tobacco. Ii Firearms Cadigan, James, Specialist. Federal Bureau of Investigation. Firearms

The joint subcommittees are investigating the failed February 28. 1993 AJcohol, Tobacco and Firearms Bureau raid on the Branch Davidian compound near Waco, Texas in which four ATF agents were killed. Also under investigation is the April 19 FBI raid on the compound with tanks and tear gas and the resultant fire in which 80 cult members died, including their leader David Koresh. A panel of Bureau of Alcohol. Tobacco and Firearms officials and others testified about the February 28 raid and whether or not David Koresh knew of the imminent raid and whether the raid should have been aborted. In disputed testimony, Mr. Rodriguez stated that he was in the compound as an undercover agent and that he notified his supervisor that Koresh knew of the imminent raid.

e 2000 NatioD81 Cable Satellite Corporation


House Committee

Waco Investigation Day 5 Part 2 Judiciary Committee Crime Subcommittee Government Refonn and Oversight Committee National Security. International Affairs and Criminal


ID: 66439 Date: 07125/1995 Length: 2:41 Price: $180.00 DeGuerin, Dick. Attorney Zlnunertnann,Jadk.Att~

In continuing testimony on 1993 raids on the Branch Davidian compound near Waco. Texas. attorneys for Branch Davidian leaders David Koresh and Steve Schneider testified about Davidian religious beliefs and way of life. especially those of Mr. Koresh. They both claimed that the April 19 raid was a tragic mistake caused by federal officials' incompetence.

o 2000 National Cable Saa:llite Corporation

House Committee

Waco Investigation Day 5 Part 3 Judiciary Committee Crime Subcommittee Government Reform and Oversight Committee National Security. International Affairs and Criminal


10: 66441 Date: 07125/1995 Length: 3:21 Price: $210.00 Cook, Maurice. CaplaiD, Texas Rangers

Bymes, David. CaptaiD, Texas Rangers

Arnold, Phillip. Scholar. Houstoa. TX

Tabor, James. Professor. University of North CaroUna. Religious Studies

McClure, Frank. Officer. Sheriff's Dcpanmcnt

In continuing testimony on 1993 raids on the Branch Davidian compound near Waco. Texas law enforcement officials testified about their investigation of the Branch Davidian compound after the April 19 raid. Religious experts testified about Davidian beliefs and way of life.

02000 National Cable Satellite C~OD

1995 Waco Hearings

House Committee



10: 66327 Date: 07125/1995 Length: 2:09 Price: $150.00 DeGuerin, Dick. Anorney

Zimmermann, Jack. Attorney

The joint subcommittees are investigating the failed February 28. 1993 Alcohol. Tobacco and Firearms Bureau raid on the Branch Davidian compound near Waco. Texas in which four ATF agents were killed. Also under investigation is the April 19 FBI raid on the compound with tanks and tear gas and the resultant fire in which 80 cult members died. including their leader David Koresh. Attorneys for Branch Davidian leaders Koresh and Steve Schneider. testified about Davidian religious beliefs and way of life. especially those of Mr. Koresh. They both claimed that the April 19 raid was a tragic mistake caused by federal officials' incompetence.

o 2000 National Cable SatelUte CorporatioD

House Committee



ID: 66442 Date: 0712611995 Length: 2:18 Price: $150.00 Jamar, Jeff. SpcciaJ AgC!l1 CFmr.). Federal Bureau of ImaOptioa. Texas

Sage, Byron. Supervisor. FedcraJ Bureau of Iovestiptioa. AustiD, TX

Cavanaugh, Jim. Special Agent. Bureau of Alcohol. Tobacco. ct Fireanns

Smerik, Pete. Analyst (Fmr.). FcdctaJ Bureau of lDVCStigaDoD

Noesner, Gary. Supervisor. Federal Bureau of InvestisaUoa

McCarthy, Ronald. Offia:r. Los Angeles. CA. Police Depanmcnc

In continuing testimony on 1993 raids on the Branch Davidian compound near Waco. Texas. federal agents testified about the two raids on the compound and the 51-day negotiations process between them.

o 2000 National Cable Satellite CorporatioD


1995 Waco Hearings

House Commiuee Waco Investigation Day 6 Part 3 Judiciary Committee Crime Subcommittee Government Reform and Oversight Committee National Security, International Affairs and Criminal


ID: 66443 Date: 0712611995 Length: 2:23 Price: $150.00 Rice, Paul. Member. Advisory Cmre.on Nuclear FacililY Safery

Parks, Hays. Chief. u.s. Army. Inrernational Law Branch

Jamar, Jeff. Special Agenr (Fmr.). Federal Bureau of Invesligation. Texas

Stone, Alan. Professor. Harvard Universiry. Law and Psychiatry

Sage, Byron. Supervisor. Federal Bureau of Investigation. Austin. TIC

Cavanaugh, Jim. Special Agent. Bureau of Alcohol. Tobacco. '" Firearms

Smerik, Pete. Analyst (fmr.). Federal Bureau of Investigation

Noesner, Gary. Supervisor. Federal Bureau of Investigation

Uhlig, George. Professor. Utah. Chemistry

Upshaw, David. Toxicologist. Unired Kingdom

In continuing testimony on 1993 raids on the Branch Davidian compound near Waco, Texas. federal agents testified about the two raids on the compound and the 5 I-day negotiations process between them. Chemical and medical experts testified about the use of CS gas in the April 19 raid.

0:00 Jamar. Sage, Noesner. Cavanaugh, Smerik panel cont.

70:00 Uhlig. Upshaw, Marcus. Parks. Rice. Stone panel

o 2000 National Cable Satellite Corporatioo

House Commince


Page 7

Government Reform and Oversight Committee National Security, International Affairs and Criminal


ID: 66886 Date: 0712611995 Length: 2:43 Price: $180.00 Rice, Paul, Member. Advisory Cmte.on Nuclear Facility Safety

Parks, Hays, Chid. u.S. Army. Inlernational Law Branch

Stone, Alan, Professor. Harvard University. Law and Psychiaby

Uhlig, George. Professor. Utah. Chemisby

Upsbaw, David. Toxicoiogisl. United KiDgdom

Marcus, WUllam, Toxicologist. Environmental ProtectiOD AgeDCY

In continuing testimony on 1993 raids on the Branch Davidian compound near Waco. Texas, chemical and medical experts testified about the use of CS gas in the April 19 raid.

I :00 Uhlig, Upshaw. Marcus, Parks. Rice, Stone panel cont.

o 2000 National Cable Satellite CorporatioD


House Committee



10: 66351 Date: 0712611995 Length: 1:38 Price: $]20.00 Jamar, Jerr. Special Agent (Fmr.), Federal Bureau of Investigation. Texas

Sage, Byron. Supervisor, Federal Bureau of Investigation. Austin, TX

Cavanaugh, Jim. Special Agent, Bureau of Alcohol. Tobacco. cl Fireanns

Smerik, Pete. Analyst (Fmr.), Federal Bureau of Investigation

Noesner, Gary. Supervisor. Federal Bureau of Investigation

The joint subcommittees are investigating the failed February 28. 1993 Alcohol. Tobacco and Fireanns Bureau raid on the Branch Davidian compound near Waco. Texas in which four ATF agents were killed. Also under investigation is the April 19 FBI raid of the compound with tanks and tear gas and the resultant fire in which 80 cult members died. including their leader David Koresh. Federal agents testified about the two raids on the compound and the 5 I-day negotiations process between them.

1:00 Opening statements 24:00 Panel

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1995 Waco Hearings

House Committee

Waco Investigation Day 7 Judiciary Committee Crime Subcommittee Government Reform and Oversight Committee National Security, International Affairs and Criminal


10: 66357 Date: 07/27/1995 Length: 4:20 Price: $270.00 Potts, Larry, Assistant Director. Federal Bureau of Investigation, Criminal Division

Jamar, Jeff. Officer, Federal Bureau of Investigll1ion. Texas

Betz, An thony. Specialist, Federal Bureau of Investigatioa

Sage, Byron, Supervisor, Federal Bun:au of InvestigatiOD, Austin. TX

Rogers, Dick. Specialist (Fmr.), Federal Bureau of InvestigatiOD

Salem, Harry. Toxicologist. U.S. AnDy

The joint subcommittees are investigating the failed February 28. 1993 Alcohol. Tobacco and Firearms Bureau raid on the Branch Davidian compound near Waco, Texas in which four AlF agents were Idlled. Also under investigation is the April 19 FBI raid on the compound with tanks and tear gas and the resuJtant fire in which 80 cult members died. including their leader David Koresh. F.B.I. officials and experts testified about the CS gas attacks on the Davidian compound that preceded the fire.

808:00 Opening statements 828:00 Jamar. BelZ, Sage. Rogers panel



1995 Waco Hearings

House Committee


House Commiltee Waco Investigation Day 8 Part 2 Iudiciary Committee Crime Subcommittee

Page 9

Government Refonn and Oversight Committee Government Refonn and Oversight Committee National Security, International Affairs and Criminal National Security, International Affairs and Criminal

Iustic Subcommittee Iustic Subcommittee Washington District of Columbia (United States) Washington District of Columbia (United States) Rayburn House Office Building Rayburn House Office Building

ID: 66385 Date: 07/2811995 Length: 3:54 Price: $240.00 ID: 66478 Date: 0712811995 Length: 4:09 Price: $270.00 Sessions, William, Direclor (Fmr.). FederaJ Bureau of Investigation Doyle, Clive, Member (fmr.). Branch Davidian Cult

Richard, Mark, Depuly Assistant Anorney Gene. Departmenl of Justice Quintere, James. Specialist. Universily of Maryland. Anon

Clarke, Floyd. Depuly Direc:lor (Frnr.). Federal Bureau of Investigation Sherrow, Rick. Specialist (fmr.). Bureau of Alcohol. Tobacco. '" Firearms. F'are

Potts, Larry, AssiSlanl Direclor (frnr.). FederaJ Bureau of Investigation. Criminal Division Gray, Paul. Team Leader. Houslon. TX. Fire Department

Hubbell, Webster, Associale Altorney General (Fmr.). Department of Justice. Civil Rights

Salem, Harry, To~c:ologisl. U.S. Army In continuing testimony on 1993 raids on the Branch Davidian compound near Waco, Texas, former cult member Doyle described the final hours inside the compound and his escape after the fire started. He denied that that the fire which killed 80 cult members was started by David Koresh or others inside. Other witnesses declared that the fire was deliberately set inside the compound.

The joint subcommittees are investigating the failed February 28, 1993 Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms Bureau raid on the Branch Davidian compound near Waco, Texas in which four A1F agents were killed. Also under investigation is the April 19 FBI raid of the compound with tanks and tear gas and the resultant fire in which 80 cult members died, including their leader David Koresh. Fonner Associate Attorney General and President Clinton friend Hubbell testified that the president never tried to influence the decision to use tear gas to the the Branch Davidian standoff. Mr. Sessions and other current and former FBI officials confirmed this.

736:00 Salem, Sessions. Hubbell, Richard. Clarke. Pons panel

952:00 Doyle, panel

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0:00 Doyle. Quintere. Gray, Sherrow panel

C 2000 National Cable Salellilc Corporation

House Committee Waco Investigation Day 9 Part 2 Judiciary Committee Crime Subcommittee Government Refonn and Oversight Committee National Security, International Affairs and Criminal


ID: 66547 Date: 07/3111995 Length: 1:41 Price: $120.00 Holmes, H. Allen, Assistant Scaeaary. Depanmenl of Defense

Secretary Holmes talked about Department of Defense assistance to federa1law enforcement officials during the Waco crisis.

This piece agrees with Mon-pm FNS file.

C 2000 National Cable Salellite Corporation

C-SPAN Archives • P.o. Box 2909 • West Lafayette,IN 47996-2909 Phone: 1-800-277-2698 • Fax: 1-765-497-9699 • Web: www.c-spanarchives.org

House Commillee

Waco Investigation Day 9 Part 1 Judiciary Committee Crime Subcommittee Government Reform and Oversight Committee National Security, International Affairs and Criminal


10: 66434 Date: 07/3111995 Length: 3:32 Price: $210.00 Dennis, Edward, Assistant Attorney General (Fmr.). Depanment of Justice

Jamar, Jeff, Special Agent (Fmr.). Federal Bureau of Investigation. Texas

Sage, Byron, Supervisor. Federal Bureau of Investigation. Austin. TX

Rogers, Dick, Specialist (Fmr.). Federal Bureau of Investigation

McGee, James. Special Agent. Federal Bureau of Investigation

Morrison, John. Special Agent. Federal Bureau of Investigation

Craig, RJ .• Special Agent. Federal Bureau of Investigation

F.B.I. officials testified about the negotiations process and the fire at the compound on April 19.

This piece goes through end of first panel FNS is where?

0:00 Opening statements 0:00 Panel

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House Committee



10: 66514 Date: 08/0111995 Length: 2:27 Price: $150.00 Reno, Janet. Attorney General. Deparunent of Justice

Attorney General Reno testified about her role in the situation. especially her decision to use CS gas in the April 19 raid on the compound. She also testified about how much President Clinton knew about the situation.


1995 Waco Hearings

House Committee



ID: 665 I 5 Date: 0810111995 Length: 1 :58 Price: $120.00 Reno, Janet, Attorney General. Depanment 01 Justice

Attorney General Reno testified about her role in the situation, especially her decision to use CS gas in the April 19 raid on the compound. She also testified about how much President Clinton knew about the situation.

68:00 Attorney General Reno leaves, closing statements begin

o 2000 National Cable Satellite Cofporation

House Committee



ID: 66445 Date: 08/0111995 Length: 3:00 Price: $180.00

First live portion begins with Mrs. Slaught questioning. ends with 4S min recess.

Attorney General Reno testified about her role in the situation. especially her decision to use CS gas in the April 19 raid on the compound. She also testified about how much President Clinton knew about the situation.

1 :00 Members opening statements 43:00 Attorney General Reno's opening statement 53:00 Questioning begins



ACTMTlES OF FEDERAL LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCIES TOWARD THE BRANCH DA VIDIANS

(PART 1)

JOINT HEARINGS BEFORE THE

SUBCO}lDIITTEE ON CRIME OF THE

COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

AND THE

SUBCO}DlITTEE ON NATIONAL SECURITY, INTERNATIONAL

AFFAIRS, AND CRIMINAL JUSTICE OF THE


ONE HUNDRED FOURTH CONGRESS

FIRST SESSION

JULY 19, 20, 21, AND 24, 1995

COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY Serial No. 72


24-809

U.S. GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE

WASHINGTON : 1996

For sa le by (he U.S. Govcnlmcnt Printing Orticc Superintendent of Documents. Congressional Sales Of ri ce. Washington. DC 20402

ISBN 0-16-053425-9

ACI1VITIES OF FEDERAL IA W ENFORCEMENT AGENCIES TOWARD TIlE' BRANCH DA VIDIANS

(PART 2)


SUBCOMMITTEE ON CRIME OF THE


AND THE

SUBCOMMITTEE ON NATIONAL SECURITY, INTERNATIONAL




FIRST SESSION

JULy 25, 26, AND 27, 1995



24-824


WASHINGTON : 1996

For sale by the U.S. Government Printing Office Superintendent of Documents. Congressional Sales Office. Washington. DC 20402

I~D~I n_1A_n"~4~~_7

ACTMTlES OF FEDERAL LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCIES TOWARD THE BRANCH DA VI DIA NS

(PART 3)


SUBCOMMI'fTEE ON CRIME OF THE


AND THE

SUBCOMMITTEE ON NATIONAL SECURITY, INTERNATIONAL




FIRST SESSION

JULY 28, 31, AND AUGUST 1, 1995



24-937


WASHINGTON : 1996

For sale by the U.S. Government Printing Office Superintendent of Documents, Congressional Sales Office, Washington. DC 20402

ISBN 0-16-053427-5