- 1 Jul –Sep 2018

A Quarterly Publication of Extension & Technical Services Division Jul –Sep 2018

Volume 15-2018 Issue No. 50

It’s the time of the year once again when the prestigious Gawad Saka Awards is honoring the best achievements in the field of agriculture. Definitely one highly-anticipated event, this grand search is being looked forward to annually, with sugarcane as one of the most hotly-contested categories. In review, past winners were simply the so-called “cream-of-the-crop” who were still able to register impressive production in spite of the odds. They may have faced challenges and stumbling blocks along the way but they overcame such through sheer determination, hard work, focus and positive disposition. This truly makes them worthy of the

recognition.

This year, there are only two nominees who are vying for the prestigious title of “Outstanding Sugarcane Farmer.” The one hails from Cagayan and the other is from Batangas. Each is eligible for the title but as in any competition, only one winner can be declared. As the deliberation heats up, let’s get to know the

distinguished nominees:

A True Farmer By Heart

RAMON S. BUNUAN (San Jose, Tuao, Cagayan)

Ramon was born in Taribubu, Tuao, Cagayan and fourth of nine siblings. Born to farmer parents, he practically grew up in the farm. At a young age, he already envisioned that in the

farm, there is income.

He took up Bachelor of Science in Agriculture (Major in Agronomy and Minor in Animal Husbandry) at the Northern Luzon State College of Agriculture in Piat, Cagayan and graduated in 1982. After his marriage to Edna Tamayao, Ramon applied for a casual post at the Department of Agriculture Regional Crop Protection Center in Ilagan, Isabela but resigned after two months since he wanted to

be with his wife.

At first, his father gave him 1.2 hectares of their agricultural land to farm in which he applied his knowledge in the field. Fortunately, he was able to make his farm productive where he grew assorted vegetables, monggo and rice plants. That was just the beginning since in 1985, Ramon was a recipient of the DAR land distribution program in which he was given 3 hectares. He planted it with hybrid corn, monggo and assorted vegies. Again, it became

productive.

Ramon’s maiden venture into sugarcane farming was in 2006, taking advantage of the 3 hectare-land he received from DAR. He begun with 2 hectares. He sought the advice of experienced sugarcane farmers and technological experts in their area. He officially joined the NORFARCO as member to enjoy its benefits. He visited successful farms, notably those of previous Gawad Saka Outstanding Sugarcane Farmers winners. He also attended seminars conducted by the Sugar Regulatory Administration, Cagayan Robina Sugar Milling Corporation (CARSUMCO), planters’ associations, Department of Agriculture and private

companies.

In 2010, he was able to buy four hectares of additional areas for his sugarcane farming. He bought three hectares in San Juan, Tuao and another one hectare in Kinama, Kalinga. In 2016, he again bought 1.5 hectares and planted it with sugarcane. As of 2017, he has a total of 8.5 hectares of sugarcane farms. Because of his experienced success, he further expanded his area to five hectares with a total of 13.5 hectares as of now. From his profit he was able to buy a four-wheeled heavy tractor, two harvesters, three hand tractors, one passenger jeepney and a Ford Ranger

pick-up.

Ramon is not only a model farmer but a dedicated public servant as well. From 2010-2014, he served as Barangay Captain in their area. Considering all the blessings that he has, the nominee is a generous fellow as he lends financial assistance to farm laborers and attends to their needs without interest. He is also compassionate to those living below poverty line and extends

them monetary aid.

The Risk Taker

ARNEL PANGANIBAN (Bgy, Santol, Balayan, Batangas)

Born on January 25, 1973,

Engr. Arnel Panganiban is the

second child of Mr. Gabriel

Panganiban and Ms. Concordia

Apasan Panganiban. They are

both public elementary school

teachers at the Santiago de

Guzman Elementary School in

Brgy. Malibu, Tuy, Batangas,

where Arnel took his primary

education. At a young age, he was already engaged in sugarcane

farming through his grandfather (in his mother’s side) who owns a

(Continued on p. 5)

2018 GAWAD SAKA OUTSTANDING SUGARCANE FARMER NOMINEES

- 2 Jul –Sep 2018

FINANCIAL LITERACY TRAINING: GIVING

THE SOCIALIZED CREDIT PROGRAM A

MUCH STRONGER BOOST

One of the main goals of the Sugar Regulatory

Administration is to help its stakeholders by

improving the plight of the sugarcane farmers when it

comes to the aspect of livelihood. This has always

been one of the agency’s driving forces ever since

Engineer Hermenegildo Serafica stepped in as the new

administrator. One way which this can be achieved is

through the Sugarcane Industry Development Act or

SIDA which was enacted in 2015.

Through said program, farmers will be provided with

the necessary allocation for the continuous production

of sugarcane through the Socialized Credit Program.

In line with its implementation, SRA tapped the Land

Bank of the Philippines (LBP) and the Agricultural

Training Institute to render a seminar to all Mill

District Officers on how to avail both the Socialized

Credit and Financial Literacy Training on February

27, 2018 at the SRA Social Hall.

Representatives from both LBP and ATI were invited

as resource speakers. It was learned in said seminar

that there are 16 different regional/satellite training

centers all over the country that provide these trainings

for free. SIDA’s background and program features

were highlighted in the activity such as: loanable

amount, interest rates, management fees, and other

charges. Also cited were: collaterals, guarantee,

surety, insurance and the additional terms and

conditions for the proper release of the budget. The

minimum acceptance criteria and the documentary

requirements from both SRA and LBP were discussed

as well.

During the open forum, it was discovered that ATI can

provide a trainers’ training for selected SRA personnel

and certify them as resource speakers. This paved the

way for the Extension Services Division of Luzon,

Visayas and Mindanao to hold a joint training on

Financial Literacy at the Luzon Agricultural Research

and Extension Center on June 5-7, 2018.

Aptly titled, “How Money Works!” the training had a

team from ATI Region III as resource speakers. The

course aimed to equip the participants on the basics of

Financial Literacy on agri-enterprises and formulate

an action plan to implement the SRA-LBP Socialized

Credit Program.

After attending the seminar, the MDO’s and their

Junior Agriculturists who are now equipped on the

basics of Financial Literacy are expected to re-echo

the action plans to their respective mill districts. The

training on said topic is an important requirement for

the implementation of the Socialized Credit Program

under SIDA. As SRA’s frontline service providers, the

seminar would equip and turn the participants into

certified trainers. They are expected to cascade the

knowledge they would learn to the grassroots level

having direct contact with the clientele. Through this,

the Socialized Credit Program will get a much

stronger boost.

Included topics in the training module which the

MDO’s and Junior Agriculturists can use in their

actual seminars are: “Filipino Values: Its Importance

to Successful Agri-Enterprises”, “Overview and

Significance of Financial Literacy”, “Business Cycle

and Characteristics of a Successful Agri-Enterprise”,

“Calculating Land Holdings”, “Cash and Credit

Management”, “Creating a Simple Budget”, “Getting

and Managing a Loan”, “Importance of Records”,

“Using Records to Make Decisions” and “Personal

Entrepreneurial Competencies.”

In the following months, some of the mill districts

have already conducted their own Financial Literacy

trainings

Tarlac mill district

participants.

Bukidnon mill district participants.

- 3 Jul –Sep 2018

The Sugar Regulatory Administration (SRA) through its

Extension Services Division and in collaboration with the

Department of Agrarian Reform (Tarlac) recently held a three

-day OPSI training for block farm members in the Tarlac Mill

District on September 26-28, 2018 at the Luzon Agricultural

Research and Extension Center in Floridablanca,

Pampanga.

LAREC OIC Mr. Laverne Olalia officially welcomed the

participants after which, Tarlac Mill District Officer Mr. Joel

Ronario recognized and presented the participants and

guests. On their part, Ms. Precy Landingin, PARPO I, DAR-

Tarlac expressed excitement and enthusiasm on the seminar

which aims to broaden their knowledge on sugarcane

growing and its related topics.

Day One officially started with Mr. Ronario’s reporting of the

Tarlac Mill District’s performance in which he highlighted the:

productivity across farm sizes, variety picture, productivity

constraints in the area, action programs and the number of

SRA-initiated Block Farms.

Next to take the floor was Ms. Rosemarie Gumera, OIC,

Office of the Deputy Administrator, RDE who talked about

the SRA and its SIDA projects. She explained SRA’s two

major functions namely, Regulatory and RDE. Under the

former, the agency is tasked to maintain a balance of supply

and domestic sugar requirement and formulate policies on

the production and allocation of sugar. As for the latter, she

emphasized the important role of OPSI which is being

undertaken by the Extension Service in obtaining higher

yield.

On SIDA projects, there’s Block Farming, rapid propagation

of HYV’s, the infrastructure programs, scholarship program

(in which it was learned that SRA has funded 54 scholars),

socialized credit program (in which it was pointed out that

there should be no duplication in the aid granted) and

industry challenges.

The next speaker was Mr. Arnold de Castro of the

Regulation Department who discussed the following topics:

1) Systems in Regulating Sugar; 2) Sugar Policy; 3)

Classifications of Raw Sugar; 4) Monitor Sugar Production

and Withdrawals; and 5) Conduct of Physical Inventory of

Warehouses.

Following him was Ms. Evelyn Estanislao, Block Farm

Coordinator (L & M) who handled the topic on the SIDA-

Block Farming Project. Ms. Estansialo entertained some

queries after her thorough discussion. One common

question that arose was on how to be a member of the Block

Farm. It was pointed out that the potential group be

endorsed first by the MDDC. Another issue raised was if the

group can avail of SRA’s farm mechanization since DAR has

no budget already. They can, but still, they have to undergo

the accreditation process.

It was evident in the class picture that participants are happy with the turnout of the 3-day OPSI training.

Continued on p. 4

- 4 Jul –Sep 2018

The following day started with a field tour of the participants

as assisted by Mr. Nestor Guiyab. They were toured around

LAREC, made to see some planted varieties plus the tractors

and implements being used. It was really one educational

and informative experience for everybody.

Next came Sr. Science Research Specialist Ms. Vina

Serrano’s lecture on “Sugarcane Breeding/Varieties Suitable

to the District.” She highlighted the commercial hybrid

breeding program, variety improvement, production

technology, crop management, methods of propagation and

the micro-propagation process. As for the varieties suitable

for the Tarlac Mill District, recommended were: Phil 2025-

0055, VMC 87-599 and VMC 84-524 (PS3).

Sr. Agriculturist Mr. Adel Catuira followed suit with his topic

on “Understanding the Sugarcane Plant.” The participants

were all-ears to the discussion in which they learned that the

top 1/3 of the stalk contains many buds and with good

nutrient supply, is very good for use for seed. The lower 2/3

of the stalk meanwhile is high in sucrose. It was also

stressed that the eye of the sugarcane on both sides should

be considered for better germination. One participant also

inquired if the milling is free to which, the answer is no since

there’s a 67-33 planter-miller share.

The next lecturer was Mr. Joel Ronario who spoke about the

“Requirements in Establishing a Nursery Farm.” The

attendees learned the definition of the agricultural jargon

PSTC which means Picul Sugar Ton Cane and that 1 Picul is

equivalent to 1 Ton or 63.25 kilos. One issue that floated as

well during the discussion was on the density of the nursery

which is 40,000 cane points per hectare. A participant also

asked about the advantage of applying chicken manure

which is a good source of nitrogen.

For the day’s last topic, Mr. Catuira took the floor again

afterwards to discuss “Sugarcane Technology for Climate

Change Adaptation in which participants learned the

definition and negative effects of Global Warming on

sugarcane growing.

Science Research Specialist Ms. Agnes Casupanan was the

opening salvo on the third and last training day. She

discussed the topic on “Pests and Diseases” which was so

entertaining and informative. Mr. Benjamin Manlapaz, Sr.

Science Research Specialist also added some knowledge

through his lecture on “Practical Sugarcane Cultivation.” Ditto

for Ms. Dyna Tienda, Science Research Specialist who

tackled the topic on “The Process of Milling Cane into

Sugar.” She shared that SRA has no power to impose

penalties on environmental concerns, only to assist and

deliver services.

Before the program came to a wrap, the SRA pool of

speakers staged a mini-consultation among the participants

for their needs assessment. In the end, the following factors

cropped up: farm mechanization (120 horse power tractor),

implements (mould, board), High-Yielding Varieties,

harvester (sickle bar, hauling truck, cane loader), livelihood/

alternative source of income (muscovado production), soil

analysis, water management (irrigation, drainage), fertilizer,

retooling seminars, presence of Extension monitoring team

and accreditation.- Joseph Peter R. Gonzales

- 5 Jul –Sep 2018

farmland and fabricator of plow and other farm implements in

Talon, Tuy, Batangas. He together with his cousins helped in the

farm activities in the field such as weeding, cultivation and

harvesting as well as delivering sugarcane using a cart into the

rails connecting to the mill. He obtained knowledge in sugarcane

farming practices through these routine activities in the field during

his childhood. He also got the idea of how entrepreneurship works

through his grandmother by accompanying her in the market to sell

various fruits such as banana, sineguelas and mango. He also

helped his grandfather, every after class in school by gathering

forages for pasture of their domesticated goats and cows.

During his college days, he became the chairman of the Balayan

Bay Movement / Earth Savers’ Movement, which honed his

leadership skills. They organized four high school youth

organizations in Balayan which were tied up in different farmers’

organizations as well as fishermen and women groups that mainly

focused on Earth conservation. Also, he became the president of

the Electronics Society of Mapua, which really contributed to his

leadership skills. He graduated with a degree of BS ECE in the

year 1994. In 1998, he got married to his high school classmate,

Ma. Maidess Panganiban who worked in the HR Department of

Globe Telecom. They were blessed with two beautiful daughters

and a son. He already taught his children the essence of education

and establishing their own business afterwards as their mind set,

not working as an employee; and with that he can see that maybe

in due time her eldest may engage in handling his farm if she

wished, while his son seems wanting to open his own restaurant

someday.

Through his savings, he started venturing in Agriculture in the year

2000 upon acquiring an initial land of five (5) has, located in Talon,

Tuy (two hectares) and Palincaro, Tuy, Batangas (3 hectares).

During that time, his mother was helping him in managing his

farmland since he was working as a Project Manager of Nokia

Philippines, Inc. in Makati City, where he was connected from 1998

until 2002. He initially planted papaya, calamias and sweet corn

which are the high value crops that time. When he worked in South

Post BELS of Bauan, Batangas, as an Assistant General Manager

from 2002-2003, a fishpond was established in his land property.

He then acquired another piece of sugarcane land in 2013 in San

Jose, Batangas. In this he started using organic fertilizer

formulation and potassium humate mixed with 21-00-00 fertilizer.

His brother who is working in the mill also helped him in mudpress

provision for formulation of organic fertilizer. He sold this land later

on to someone engaging in poultry business. He then started

engaging into poultry in 2013 as part of his farm in Talon, Tuy

which he acquired by that year in exchange of his area in San

Jose.

By then, an Accenture company technician, a distributor of

hypercompost consulted him and offered their product for a lower

price in exchange of promoting their product through the

establishment of a demo farm in his area. Through this agreement,

he with the help of his farm workers got motivated even more to

organize the system of sugarcane farming in his area. He was able

to expand his farmland when he bought another sugarcane area of

6.5 hectares in Acle, Tuy. Upon searching of HYVs which are

highly adaptable in his area and has good ratooning quality, he

observed that PHIL 99-1793 turned to be outstanding as compared

to other varieties he tried such as the 2000 Series, so until the

present almost his entire sugarcane area is planted with PHIL-99

variety, also PHIL 7544.

In 2017, he was elected Board of Director of the Batangas

Sugarcane Planters Cooperative Marketing Association. Prior to

his basic knowledge from his early years and also those acquired

in attending seminars in relation to farming, he was able to equip

himself on what he thought should uplift the quality of his

sugarcane produce. Aside from using the formulation of organic

fertilizer containing mudpress, mill ash, effective microorganisms,

and chicken manure sustained from his poultry farm, and other

fertilizer input including potassium humate mixture with 21-00-00

fertilizer, other recommended practices such as deep plowing and

double row system of planting using 6 lacsa/ha of HYV were

adapted. Unlike when he was starting-up on his farm, using

traditional practices such as 3 lacsa/ha of old and deteriorating

canepoints, and around 1 meter furrow distance was considered to

be a good foundation and still he was able to improve given the

new technologies that he didn’t hesitate to adapt, leading to a

higher yield. Other farmers in the community as well as other

members of BSPCMA started to use his technology to attain better

yield.

He was also able to provide assistance to his farm workers in

terms of provision of farm housing, group insurance, social

amelioration bonus, financial assistance and motor vehicle

assistance. A wild pig production was also established in his farm

for sustainable source of food for his workers. Aside from that, he

also has rental properties and trucking services (2 dump trucks, 2

six wheelers) as other income-generating activities. As an

entrepreneur, Engr. Arnel can consider himself as a person who is

not afraid to take the risk. He always sets his mind on his guiding

principle, which is to provide food for the people and inspire

people/ farmers like him not to fear taking risk, that there is

success in sugarcane farming.—Joseph Peter Gonzales

2018 Gawad Saka …. from p. 1

- 6 Jul –Sep 2018

FMR INSPECTION CONDUCTED

One of the problems affecting farmers is the farm-to-

mill road, the reason why SRA always thinks of ways

and means to address such issue. In an effort to help the

plight of the farmers, the agency came up with a farm-

to-mill road project that started in 2016.

With this

thought, on

July 6, 2018,

the SRA’s Mr.

Wilfredo

Mapano and El

Mark

Jakosalem,

together with

the Department

of Public Works and Highways (DPWH) engineers and

BMDDFI Manager Mr. Melbert Arayan conducted a

pre-final inspection of the 2016 Farm-to-Mill Road

(FMR) project at Oadi, San Jose and Crossing Bida to

Lumintao, Quezon, Bukidnon.

Said inspection aimed that all the roads connected with

the project are in place. This project just showed that

SRA wants to give what is best for the farmers like easy

road access.

The Farm-to-Mill-Road is one of the many projects of

SRA for the betterment and welfare of its clientele.

With the dedication of the agency, it will definitely

continue to live its purpose for the success of the

farmers in the sugarcane industry.

FLT TRAININGS HELD

The Sugar Regulatory Administration (SRA) facilitated

seminars on Financial Literacy and OPSI trainings on

July 10-13, 2018 at the Yhoni Café, Musuan, Maramag,

Bukidnon. Said seminars came in batches. The first

batch (July 10-11, 2018) had 32 participants (14 males

and 18 females) while the second one (July 11-12,

2018) had 30 participants (18 males and 12 females).

Such trainings were for applicants of the Socialized

Credit Program, being one of the requirements.

The purpose of the seminars was to educate the small

sugarcane farmers to be responsible and wise in

handling money.

Said trainings were successful with the active

participation of the farmers, who were very eager,

willing and interested to learn about the program. They

listened intently to the lectures and discussions and

later participated in the question and-answer portion at

the end of each topic.

Over-all, the participants went home feeling

accomplished with the knowledge and insights they

gained from the seminars like financial independence

and freedom, money management, determination,

patience, and hard work.

CHED MEETS SRA SCHOLARS

On July 19, 2018, the CHED staff flew to Bukidnon to

meet the scholars under the SRA-SIDA scholarship

program. The purpose of the visit was to address the

concerns and answer the questions of some of the

scholars under the program. Some SRA personnel were

also present in the occasion like Ms. Belle Plaza, Ms.

Josephine Mapano, Mr. Ismael Braga, and Mr. El Mark

Jakosalem.

During the meeting, the scholars raised some vital

points and concerns about the program, which the

CHED and SRA staff answered to the best of their

ability. Said meeting was a success in the sense that all

major concerns were clearly tackled.

SUGARCANE PRODUCTION

SEMINAR HELD The Crystal Sugar Company, Inc. sponsored and

organized a Sugarcane Production Technology seminar

on July 25 and September 13, 2018. This was

conducted at Comara, Amai Manabilang, Wao, Lanao

Del Sur (July 25, 2018) with 165 participants. The same

seminar was held at Malipayon, Pangantucan,

Bukidnon (September 13, 2018) with 203 participants.

The topics presented during said activities include,

“Land Preparation” and “Harvesting and Ratooning.”

The seminars aim to educate the farmers on the new

technological trends in sugarcane farming, the various

high-yielding varieties, and how to increase

productivity with less cost. In this way, the farmers will

- 7 Jul –Sep 2018

become more effective and efficient with their

sugarcane production.

Interestingly, at the end of one of the seminars, one

participant gave an impression and he conveyed his

gratitude and appreciation to the Sugar Regulatory

Administration and Crystal Sugar Company, Inc. for

bringing the technology at their doorstep.

SRA AND BUSCO CONDUCT JOINT

FIELD VALIDATION

SRA Field Surveyors Servillano Longakit, Carloweh

Blanco, and Francis Ucat along with BUSCO Crop

Inspector Mr. Ryan Sala paid a visit to a new area of

sugarcane located in Brgy. Basok, Kawayan, Tapulan,

Talakag, Bukidnon on July 26, 2018.

The purpose of the visit was to validate the place

whose estimated area is more or less 100 hectares.

This activity was made possible through the efforts

given by the BUSCO, which assisted the farmers in the

expansion of their farms. It was observed that although

their farm areas were far from the mill site, the soil of

their farm is fertile and productive.

SRA STAGES INCEPTION MEETING

Senior Agriculturist Mr. Adel Catuira along with Ms.

Anna Marie Agor of SRA Quezon City conducted an

inception meeting with the Bukidnon MDDC and

association managers on August 7, 2018. The purpose

of the visit was to discuss the Rapid Propagation

Project.

Mr. Catuira explained that the concerned MDO’s and

different

districts

already

submitted

the listings

of possible

sources of

planting

materials

together

with the

names and

addresses of the contact persons & the varieties so that

the Commission On Audit (COA) could check the

authenticity of the suppliers. He also cleared that if the

project would not be implemented in 2018, the budget

will return to SRA. The liquidation process was

discussed as well and the body amended the format of

the work and financial plan for revision according to

their activities.

In his discussion, Mr. Catuira pointed out the main

reason why the project got delayed and it was because

of the procurement process especially, with the

requirements set by the COA. He also informed the

MDDC officer that the project is already moving and

continuing.

SRA-TESDA SCHOLARS RECEIVE

ALLOWANCE AND CERTIFICATES

August 8, 2018 marked a red-letter day for the SRA-

TESDA scholars as they received their allowance and

certificates at the SRA Bukidnon office. There was a

total of 49 Automotive NC I scholars who personally

went to the place to receive their due, so to speak.

Indeed, said scholarship program draws huge

inspiration. It is able to help less privileged but

deserving students. Although it is true that it is not all

bed of roses for the scholars since they face various

challenges in the process, it still proved to be a

gratifying endeavor.

In addition, it was a challenge consolidating all

- 8 Jul –Sep 2018

NEW OPERATIONS MANAGER FOR

CARSUMCO

CARSUMCO has a new Operations Manager in the

person of Ms. Ma. Mitzi V.

Mangwag. She assumed the post

on August 27, 2018 replacing

outgoing Operations Manager

Atty. Joseph E. Tan.

As the new Operations Manager,

Ms. Mangwag is mandated to

direct and oversee the operational

activities of URC Sugar Division-CARSUMCO. She

shall promote a high standard of manufacturing

operations, product quality and safety requirement to

continuously improve the overall performance of the

company. She shall also manage the utilization of

equipment, facilities, budget and personnel to

effectively achieve key performance indicators.

Furthermore, she vowed to have good partnership with

concerned agencies, LGU’s and especially the planters

to increase production and improve productivity in the

district.

Mitzi started her career in March 1988 as Internal

Auditor of the Universal Robina Sugar Company

(URSUMCO) based in Negros Oriental. In April 1991,

she was assigned in URC-CARSUMCO at Sto.

Domingo, Piat, Cagayan as Internal Audit in Charge

and later became the Chief Accountant in September

1997.

Due to her outstanding performance, she was promoted

as Group Head for Warehousing and Logistics across

all Sugar and Renewable in November 2007 which is

based in Negros Oriental until she resigned.—Lito

Caranguian

pertinent documents needed for the scholarship but

with the joint effort of the scholars and the TESDA-

SRA staff, everything fell into the right place.

AN INSPIRING TALK ON THE BLOCK

FARMING PROGRAM

On September 21, 2018, the Bukidnon Sugar

Company (BUSCO) invited Senior Agriculturist

Mr. Wilfredo A. Mapano to speak and discuss about

the Block Farming Program at Park Area, Wao,

Lanao del Sur.

The BUSCO organized the event because of the

participants’ interest and amazement on how the

program has helped and will still help small

sugarcane farmers.

Participants listened attentively to the talk and it

was evident that they gained lots of insights on

various techniques that could help them achieve

higher yield.

This undertaking is indeed a solid proof of SRA’s

commitment to help sugarcane farmers. Together

with the BUSCO, they are aware that one effective

way to cascade this is through educating them.