RESTRICTEDMG15(T)RECORD OF INTERVIEWRESTRICTEDSept 2011ROTIPerson interviewed: KIRK, MAURICE JOHN Police Exhibit No: JCH02ADate of Birth: 12/03/1945 Number of Pages: 33Signature of interviewer/transcriber producingexhibit (click on pencil to sign)#SWP5416 HOWE, J.Date 28/03/2017 08:36Place of interview: Cardiff Bay Police StationDate of interview: 1st March 2017Time commenced: 19:50 hours Audio Tape Reference No:Time concluded: 20:44 hours Visual Image Reference No: C170006693Duration ofinterview:53 minutesInterviewer(s): PC 5416 HOWE DC 4033 EVANSOther personspresent:Catherine PHIPPS, Appropriate AdultTape CounterTimePersonspeakingTextIntroduction and caution given.Caution explained in full and understood.Entitlement to free and independent legal advice given. Defendantdeclined legal representation. Appropriate adult appraised of theirrole.A discussion took place with regard to why an appropriate adultwas present at the interview. The defendant queried why she waspresent at the interview as he had not requested such a person.He eventually agreed to her being present.Circumstances of arrestSuspicion of breach of a restraining order.Video coverage intermittent throughout interview.09:13 5416 Alright, as I stated at the, a second ago you’ve been arrested onsuspicion of breach of a restraining order. The information I've gotin relation to that is initially a restraining order was issued in 2011.URN 62EA022351618J22d24b78280ad24d84b6e62e281f5ec1ff-2RESTRICTEDMG 15(T)Page 2Record of Interview of: Maurice KIRKRESTRICTEDTape CounterTimePersonspeakingText09:36 Def. Oh, was it?5416 On the 1st of the 12th 2011 by Cardiff Magistrates court.Def. I can't dispute that.5416 No, I'm not, its not.

Def. I wasn’t there.5416 Ok, its not a question. I'm stating that.Def. Oh I see.5416 I have.Def. Do you know its true?5416 Yes.Def. How do you know?5416 Cos it’s a matter of public record. And I have the official documenthere in front of me.Def. Yes, but I don’t have the records that go with it. They won't handthem over.5416 The restraining order was amended on the 12th April 2013. That’sthe copy I have in front of me today, the amended order. We don’thave the 2011 copy because its no longer in, in power cos it wasreplaced by the amended order, Ok. The restraining order states‘Application to bear a restraining order on the 1st of the 12th 2011by Cardiff Magistrates Court for Maurice KIRK by amending thewording of the preamble to order on the grounds that this isrequested by the Crown Prosecution Service in accordance withSection 54 Protection from Harassment Act 1997.’ The court haschanged your order, you must not and there are a list now of 6conditions in relation to this order.Def. Right.5416 Ok. The first is not to contact, approach or communicate with DrTegwyn Mel WILLIAMS directly or indirectly by any means19J23d24b78280ad24d84b6e62e281f5ec1ff-3RESTRICTEDMG 15(T)Page 3Record of Interview of: Maurice KIRKRESTRICTEDTape CounterTimePersonspeakingTextwhatsoever. Number 2, display or disseminate any material,photographic or otherwise relating to Tegwyn Mel WILLIAMS.Become a party to the display or dissemination of any material,photographic or otherwise in relation to Dr Tegwyn Mel WILLIAMS.Place any information on the internet concerning Dr Tegwyn MelWILLIAMS. Number 5, become a party to any material beingplaced on the internet relating to Dr Tegwyn Mel WILLIAMS andnumber 6, attending the curtilage of the Caswell Clinic or itsgrounds. And the order lasts until further order. Now we checkedthe Police National Computer and.11:33 Def. But that’s reliable is it?5416 Yes it is. And this order is still in effect. It hasn’t been withdrawnby the courts or amended since this copy I have in front of mehere. Ok, so this order is still in effect. And it states at the bottomfailure to obey part of this order is a criminal offence.Def. Yes, I understand.5416 Yes, do you understand? Would you like to see that?Def. Well I've been asking for this for some time.5416 There we are.

Def. But can I have a copy of it, can I keep a copy?5416 You can't keep that copy cos that’s my copy, I need that one forthe file.Def. Yeah, Ok.4033 We can get a copy for you though Mr (INAUDIBLE) after interview.12.07 – 12.15 NO VIDEO INPUT5416 Right, do you just want a second to scan?Def. No, no, you carry on talking, its alright.5416 No? Ok. Back in September of 2016.Def. Yes.20J24d24b78280ad24d84b6e62e281f5ec1ff-4RESTRICTEDMG 15(T)Page 4Record of Interview of: Maurice KIRKRESTRICTEDTape CounterTimePersonspeakingText12:25 5416 Well, do you want to have a quick.Def. No its alright, I've got the gist of that.5416 You sure. South Wales Police received a complaint from Dr TegwynMel WILIAMS.Def. Any chance of seeing a copy of the complaint?5416 We can't show you his personal statement.Def. Then how am I prepared to have faith in what your saying if I, if Idon’t get shown and be given copy of.5416 Because as I said before, I'm an independent investigator and I.Def. You’re a police officer.5416 Yes I am.Def. So how can you be independent?5416 Because the complaint has come from a member of the publicagainst a member of the public. I'm the person investigating ifthere's any truth in that allegation.Def. Yes, but your police force is, is, is pursued this nonsense and gotme registered as a MAPPA victim.5416 Mr KIRK, can I just say I.Def. Because of civil damages against the police.5416 We’re not here today and its not my intention to get drawn on intoa conversation about things that have happened.Def. No.5416 That don’t relate directly.Def. But you said your independent, that’s all. Carry on, sorry. I, itsjust.5416 Directly to the allegation being made today Ok.Def. Yeah.5416 Anything that’s come before is not concern to me Ok. As I say inSeptember we received a complaint from Dr Tegwyn Mel WILLIAMS21J25d24b78280ad24d84b6e62e281f5ec1ff-5RESTRICTEDMG 15(T)

Page 5Record of Interview of: Maurice KIRKRESTRICTEDTape CounterTimePersonspeakingTextthat he had become aware that there were posts on the internetand he has alleged that you have or you are party to these postsbeing placed on the internet that make reference to him. Which isin direct violation of terms 4 and 5 on the restraining order in frontof you. Would you like to read over terms 4 and 5 again beforewe carry on?13:52 Def. No. (INAUDIBLE).5416 Ok. Its basically terms 4 and 5 relates directly to the placing of theinternet, on the internet material relating to.Def. I need to see the material to answer you.5416 Ok, that’s what, that’s what we’re going into now. Ok. After theallegation a statement of complaint was taken from Dr WILLIAMSOk. Saying that.Def. So, so this was September. What are we, 6 months, over 6 monthsago?5416 Yeah its about, its about 6 months.Def. Why, why? I was 2 hours in your station yesterday wishing tomake a complaint about this. I stood here for 2 hours.5416 Ok.Def. So why didn’t you talk to me at the, yesterday?5416 Because I, I'm the officer in charge of this case. I only becameaware after you attended the station yesterday. But you were backin your.Def. No, no, but I've been to the police station 8 or 9 times5416 Ok, I was only made aware yesterday.Def. Ok.5416 Yesterday afternoon after you’d been to the station that you wereback in the country.Def. Well, why didn’t you ring me? You’ve got my name, phone number22J26d24b78280ad24d84b6e62e281f5ec1ff-6RESTRICTEDMG 15(T)Page 6Record of Interview of: Maurice KIRKRESTRICTEDTape CounterTimePersonspeakingTextand everything.14:47 5416 I didn’t know you were back in the country. The last information,up to date information I had was that you weren’t in the UnitedKingdom. So that’s why.Def. But I was in the country in last September.5416 That’s why its taken so long. The statement wasn’t takenimmediately from Dr WILLIAMS cos we weren’t able to contact himstraight away. After he made his complaint a police officer, a

colleague of mine, PC KAROWANA (?) has gone on to the internetwhich he is suitably trained to do and from the internet has takenscreen shot or what we call screen grabs.Def. Yes, I think I know what you mean.5416 Yeah. Of information relating to Dr Tegwyn Mel WILLIAMS oncertain sites that are linked to yourself.Def. I do have several sites.5416 Yeah, I appreciate that and I’ll go through which sites they are.Def. Which may become relevant.5416 Now, Ok, exhibit SC01 is this here. It’s a poster which was placedon. This was taken from your Facebook page.Def. Oh, that’s, that’s something nothing to do with me.5416 No, its this part here.Def. Yes, yes. That’s my daughter in my aeroplane, that’s alright.5416 Right Ok. Can you confirm this is from your Facebook page?Def. Ah I can't. But I'm fully aware of this document because the. Bythe time I got to Crown Court the, the prosecutor who I arrested,David Gareth EVANS, I arrested him because he was trying to putthis, this document before the court. And I remember themagistrate saying no. So I arranged for it to go into the CrownCourt appeal on the same day. Why aren’t you all wearing23J27d24b78280ad24d84b6e62e281f5ec1ff-7RESTRICTEDMG 15(T)Page 7Record of Interview of: Maurice KIRKRESTRICTEDTape CounterTimePersonspeakingTextdaffodils? It was the 1st of, the 1st of March 2012 that this wasintroduced as a court exhibit and I am a party to that document.Whether I, I, for the case of argument I expect I published it.16:53 5416 Ok.Def. You’ll find me something there that I can definitely say yes I did.Ok. My Facebook. Mmmm, Ok.5416 Ok. The date on this one is the 5th November 2016.Def. Oh right.5416 Ok, did you place that on to your Facebook page?Def. If, if it came from my Facebook page I will accept that I put itthere. But I don’t have a Facebook at the moment so I can't. Andits so long ago.5416 Does anybody else have access to your Facebook?Def. Yes. Yes, and somebody else might have put it there and I can't atthe mo. If you give me enough examples I'm going to recognisesomething I specifically put up.5416 Ok. I've got.Def. I can't say for that one.5416 Ok, I've got a few more.Def. Yeah, exactly. I think you’ll get one, we’ll get one out of one ofthem.5416 In relation to your Facebook account although, has anybody elsegot access to that account?

Def. Yes.5416 Your password.Def. Yeah.5416 Could anyone place something on there on your behalf?Def. Yes.5416 Ok. Can you tell me who those people are?24J28d24b78280ad24d84b6e62e281f5ec1ff-8RESTRICTEDMG 15(T)Page 8Record of Interview of: Maurice KIRKRESTRICTEDTape CounterTimePersonspeakingText17:52 Def. Well I’d need, I’d need notice for a question like that. I've got toget, got to get certain people’s permission for me to discuss it withyou.5416 Ok.Def. Well, come on, is that being unreasonable? There are a lot ofpeople.5416 I'm not saying its unreasonable.Def. No, no, there's a lot of human rights workers and all around theworld who are gunning for what's happened to me about this issue.About the way they fabricated a harassment conviction.5416 Ok.Def. I was then sectioned under the mental health act, the section 60,35 of the 1983 Mental Health Act by this man without him evenexamining me.5416 Ok.Def. And I got jailed for 3 months without him needing to examine me.So there's a lot of history here. But lets stick to what your job is,I'm trying to keep it simple.5416 Absolutely. So in relation to this particular post on the 5th ofNovember, this poster.Def. I can't give you an answer accurately. It, it.5416 Alright Ok. Except you might have put it there.Def. Yes.5416 But there are other people who have access.Def. Yes.5416 But you can't tell me who they are right now?Def. Yes. No.5416 Ok, no problem. Just quickly go, just going back to this restrainingorder. We’ll take one step back quickly. Are you aware that this is25J29d24b78280ad24d84b6e62e281f5ec1ff-9RESTRICTEDMG 15(T)Page 9Record of Interview of: Maurice KIRKRESTRICTEDTape CounterTime

PersonspeakingTextin existence?19:02 Def. No.5416 Your not aware? Would it be fair to say that you’ve beenpetitioning the courts to have this restraining order rescinded?Def. I have tried to clarify the situation. And I said to myself the onlyway to clarify this is to get somebody in court, a lawyer, or me. Iwas out in Africa when I decided this and I didn’t intend to comeback. But I had a very important court case tomorrow and a civildamages claim against the South Wales Police which I cannot trustanybody with. I have to be here to do it.5416 What were you trying to clarify then?Def. Well, you see a judge quashed that document. Shall we give it adate shall we. Is it dated?5416 Yeah. In the blue.Def. My eyesight’s so bad now. 12th or 13th of.App Adult 12th April 2013.Def. Yeah. Yeah. Since then the judge has made it quite clear that thathas been quashed.5416 Ok.Def. Now I'm worried that you don’t know that.5416 Right, according to the Police National Computer and the courts coswe have checked with the courts.Def. Well, well.5416 Systems themselves.Def. We, we.5416 This is still in effect.Def. I've a 25 year running civil damages claim against the South WalesPolice which is the reason for my internet and Facebooks and soon. And, and it was found out that neither the police, in Barry by26J30d24b78280ad24d84b6e62e281f5ec1ff-10RESTRICTEDMG 15(T)Page 10Record of Interview of: Maurice KIRKRESTRICTEDTape CounterTimePersonspeakingTextthe way, nor the National Computer could be, was trustworthy.Because they were, for 4 times I was arrested for having no drivinglicence and 4 times I had a driving licence. Simply because thepolice records and the National Computer, PNC, were incorrect. Soplease.20:58 5416 Further. Can I just say.Def. Enough of that, carry on.5416 Further, further than the PNC check.Def. Yeah. Yeah.5416 I contacted the courts myself and asked them if this order was stillin effect.Def. When?5416 Its in November.

Def. Oh no, no.5416 They stated it was still in effect.Def. Ah, ah so you haven’t done like yesterday.5416 Well these, these cases for example that I'm going to show to you.Def. Start it then, yeah.5416 Are before I checked with the court.Def. Because I've been in to the Cardiff Magistrates to try and get therecords for this interview. And please did you catch that.5416 Can I.Def. I have been inside demanding a copy of the court records of theoriginal, the restraining order.5416 Ok.Def. Only to find that they have been altered.5416 Right. Ok. Well I can't comment on (INAUDIBLE).Def. No, I'm not asking you to.5416 (INAUDIBLE) and the courts.27J31d24b78280ad24d84b6e62e281f5ec1ff-11RESTRICTEDMG 15(T)Page 11Record of Interview of: Maurice KIRKRESTRICTEDTape CounterTimePersonspeakingText21:47 Def. But, but.5416 This restraining order here then, when I asked you were you awarea minute ago, aware of its existence and you said no. That youweren’t, your not aware of its existence.Def. Today that was quashed on the 20th April I think its 2014. It mightbe 13. But I think it was a year after that.5416 No, this is still in effect.Def. Well.5416 According to the courts themselves, this is still in effect.Def. Well I had somebody in court and therefore I bought a transcriptand it was plainly obvious by what was said that it was no longer inexistence. Um, I'm sorry about that but.5416 Nothing to apologise for Mr KIRK.Def. Well, well. Um I don’t accept what you say because I prefer tobelieve the judge.5416 Ok, that’s fine. That’s something you can ask the courts thenyourself.Def. No, I have the transcript but I haven’t got it here.5416 Ok, but that’s.Def. But you can get a hold of that transcript.5416 I said the reason, the reason you’re here today is cos I've checkedwith the courts and according to the courts this is still in effect.Def. And you went to which court, the magistrates or crown?5416 I spoke to Cardiff Magistrates Court.Def. Do you know the name of the person because I have been in theretwice this week?5416 No, I don’t know their names.Def. Trying to get this information before I was arrested.

5416 Ok. I don’t know the name of the person, I'm afraid, I can't help28J32d24b78280ad24d84b6e62e281f5ec1ff-12RESTRICTEDMG 15(T)Page 12Record of Interview of: Maurice KIRKRESTRICTEDTape CounterTimePersonspeakingTextyou.23:02 Def. No, no mind.5416 So in relation to this one where you said you weren’t sure it existsbut you, you.Def. No, I meant today.5416 Today?Def. Yeah.5416 Ok, are you aware of its previous existence?Def. Yes.5416 You are?Def. But I'm not sure of its content because I'm not sure if I ever gotone but I knew, I knew there was the outstanding one. Theoriginal one was still standing. I didn’t realise it had been varied.5416 Ok.4033 Mr KIRK, when this was dated the 13th, sorry 12th April 2013, wereyou in court when this restraining order was served.Def. I expect so. I expect so.4033 Is that yes or a no?Def. I, more likely yes than no. On the, the main one, the one fromwhich this stems I was in the cells beneath and knew nothing aboutit. And no one told me either.4033 Ok. So you were in court on this date but you were in the cells.Def. No, no. This date5416 There was two (INAUDIBLE).Def. I most likely was there. But the first one upon which this relies, the1st December. I've been to magistrate today and they’ve given mea letter in detail that it is clear that the records are not in existencethat they had to come down to the cells and somebody says theygave it to me. But then when cross examined at the first jury trial29J33d24b78280ad24d84b6e62e281f5ec1ff-13RESTRICTEDMG 15(T)Page 13Record of Interview of: Maurice KIRKRESTRICTEDTape CounterTimePersonspeakingTexton the 4th May 2012 the jury askes can we see the records that MrKIRK was even given one. And the judge said, his name was His

Honour Judge CURREN, not available. Now that’s very worryingbecause this was less than 6 months after the alleged, of beingserved it. And since then somebody has altered the recordsbecause I got the criminal cases review commission to obtain therecords that you must get before they got altered. Because nowthe records that the lawyer for me last week tried to get. He hadwritten instructions from me, you will go to court, you will apply forthe records that will confirm a restraining order was created andwas served on me. And he failed.25:19 5416 Ok.Def. And even the district judge couldn’t get hold of them.5416 Is this the 2011 case your referring to now?Def. Yes, yes.5416 Ok.Def. Upon which that relies.5416 Well, this is an amended.Def. Yes I know that.5416 But it takes over from.Def. No, it doesn’t.5416 It does.Def. Not in law it doesn’t.5416 Right. These are the terms of a restraining order issued by thecourt.Def. Yes, yes.5416 Ok. Of which you should be aware.Def. Yes. I know. That’s why, that’s why the judge when he found outthe history of the first one during a jury trial he quashed it.30J34d24b78280ad24d84b6e62e281f5ec1ff-14RESTRICTEDMG 15(T)Page 14Record of Interview of: Maurice KIRKRESTRICTEDTape CounterTimePersonspeakingText25:52 5416 When do you think that the restraining order was quashed?Def. Well I gave you a day.4033 The 13th April 2014.Def. But I might be a year out. It was either 30th April 13 or the 30thApril 14. I think it was 14 because I can give you the name of thejudge and I think that judge was in 2014. His name wasROWLANDS.4033 What court was that Mr KIRK?Def. Cardiff Crown.4033 Cardiff. Did you have a solicitor representing you?Def. No, I wasn’t allowed in court. I, I, 7 times the Cardiff courts haveprevented the police or whoever, the Cardiff cabal, call it who youlike. 7 times I've been denied access to my own court whenunrepresented. That was one of the occasions.4033 So who told you it was quashed.Def. Because I sent somebody there in advance who, who generallytape recorded everything.

4033 And what, who was that person?Def. Well again, give me a little time. I've got to, I need, I'm notdragging people who’ve gone over backwards to help me.4033 If your, if your saying you believe this restraining order wasquashed.Def. Cos that’s what he told me.4033 And you didn’t got to court but someone went into court on yourbehalf.Def. Yes, yes.4033 Its important for us to know.Def. No. Cos of transcript. I immediately bought the transcript.4033 Right, who went in to court?31J35d24b78280ad24d84b6e62e281f5ec1ff-15RESTRICTEDMG 15(T)Page 15Record of Interview of: Maurice KIRKRESTRICTEDTape CounterTimePersonspeakingText27:23 Def. No, I'm not telling you not without his permission.4033 Ok, that’s fine. If you.Def. No, you don’t need him. Well, you do because I only have.4033 He's a witness.Def. Part of the transcript but there's sufficient on the transcript that Icould obtain because quite often the sensitive stuff is denied me.In the machine gun case is classic. And when this Dr TegwynWILLIAMS applied for me to be incarcerated for life in AshworthHigh Security Psychiatric Prison on the 2nd December 2009 I was inthe cells unrepresented while the prosecutor whose now a judgesaid the doctor here believes Mr KIRK has cancer and that he isregistered MAPPA 3 level 3. That’s the top 5 per cent mostdangerous people in our community. I knew none of this. Noone’s ever told me officially that I'm MAPPA 3 level 3 which is why Ibelieve this lady is here. She may not know why she's here andgetting back to Dr Tegwyn WILLIAMS saying that I was not allowedthe transcript of that hearing except he was a client of mine, thechap behind the desk and he either switched on the tape recorderpurposely or it was by mistake because from, we caught the, on itwas about 20 past 11 and I was, it started at least 20 minutesbefore. And they got this chap Tegwyn WILLIAMS out of the roombefore I came up the stairs. And there's a delay between going upthe stairs and getting the handcuffs off and that he switched thetape recorder on. And they were carrying on talking. And thejudge, Richard TOMOLOW, wash your mouth out Maurice, he saidthe doctor here believes I have a brain tumour. No one has everofficially told me. And the moment they realised I was going to winthe machine gun case three weeks later they with, removed on the17th December 9 all MAPPA restrictions on me. Without telling me.32J36d24b78280ad24d84b6e62e281f5ec1ff-16

RESTRICTEDMG 15(T)Page 16Record of Interview of: Maurice KIRKRESTRICTEDTape CounterTimePersonspeakingTextAnd of course I won the machine gun case because it was totallyfabricated. Sorry about this but it is, it is relevant to the, to thecharge you want, (INAUDIBLE) written it out, breach of arestraining order.29:45 4033 Are you prepared to tell us who this person is?Def. No yet, not, not without, not until I've asked him or herspermission.4033 That’s fine.Def. Come on.4033 That’s important for us to.Def. No its not. Get the transcript. Get the full transcript. And thencome back to me. Interview me again. And explain to me why theinterview is not sufficient.5416 If we move on then to exhibit SCO2. From Facebook, the samedate as exhibit SC01.Def. Oh well I'm not going to help you much on that. Let me see itthen.5416 We've got here the date 5th November, your name, Facebookprofile picture and this.Def. Ah look, the machine gun.5416 That’s a smaller version of.Def. Yes.5416 Of this picture here.Def. Yes.5416 Yeah.Def. This is the machine gun which they had me locked up for nearly ayear for.5416 Ok, I appreciate that but its this picture here.Def. Yes, but this gentleman here caused me to be locked up.33J37d24b78280ad24d84b6e62e281f5ec1ff-17RESTRICTEDMG 15(T)Page 17Record of Interview of: Maurice KIRKRESTRICTEDTape CounterTimePersonspeakingText30:37 5416 Ok. But its this picture here that I'm investigating not that one.Def. Is that the same as that one?5416 This, this, it’s a smaller version of this one, its identical.Def. Oh right.5416 Ok. Further on the same.Def. Facebook?5416 Same Facebook page. Yourself.

Def. Same date? What date.5416 3rd November. 2 days before this one.Def. Ok.5416 This picture here. It’s a wanted style poster containing.Def. Ah.5416 A picture of Dr.Def. Beautiful. This is the psychiatric.5416 Tegwyn Mel WILIAMS.Def. Part of the psychiatric report.5416 Yeah. Do you recognise this?Def. Yes, I do, I made it. I created that.5416 You created that. Ok.Def. Yes, that’s a bit of fun.5416 Did you, did you place this on Facebook on 3rd November 2016?Def. I can't remember, I can't re. Find me something that’s clear and Ican confirm.5416 Ok, we’ll go through some more.Def. There's no reason, sorry, there's no reason why I would not haveput it on.5416 No reason why you would not to have.Def. I think you ought to write that down. Have a moment. Those that,those, those are the judge’s notes asking to see the records.34J38d24b78280ad24d84b6e62e281f5ec1ff-18RESTRICTEDMG 15(T)Page 18Record of Interview of: Maurice KIRKRESTRICTEDTape CounterTimePersonspeakingText31:50 5416 Ok. They make (INAUDIBLE)Def. Yeah, I think it is.5416 And this is a larger version.Def. Yeah. But the main man is, is this man here.5416 This is dated the 25th October.Def. Yeah.5416 Again on your Facebook page.Def. Yeah.5416 And this is a, like I say, a bigger version of the one I just shownyou. Did you put this on to Facebook?Def. I don’t, I don’t know. But this is a professor Roger WOOD ofSwansea University.5416 Ok.Def. Who, who, who leaned on, on Dr Tegwyn WILLIAMS to say that Ihad brain damage.5416 Right.Def. He also was not qualified and when I won the machine gun case hequickly rewrote his notes and he's the man that should go toprison.5416 Ok.Def. This poor chap was being blackmailed.5416 Right.

Def. About something I'm not going to raise without his permission.5416 This is the picture I'm interested in.Def. Yes, I made that picture. I made the poster. Whether I put itthere or not. I would like you to give me some technicalinformation.5416 What information would you like Mr KIRK?Def. Well, right so that says its Facebook.35J39d24b78280ad24d84b6e62e281f5ec1ff-19RESTRICTEDMG 15(T)Page 19Record of Interview of: Maurice KIRKRESTRICTEDTape CounterTimePersonspeakingText32:50 5416 25th October.Def. Oh, I'm more likely to have done it then.32:54 NO VIDEO INPUT AND AUDIO.32:55 Def. .. people. I'm, I'm, I would need some research on that.5416 Ok, what, what kind of research?Def. Your going to find me something where I can say yes, I put it onthere.5416 We've got a few more things to go through.Def. Yes, well, we’ll find it, then this conversation will becomesecondary.5416 (INAUDIBLE) how much you got? This won't take long to gothrough.4033 (INAUDIBLE).5416 Oh, I’ll take a minute on this one. Exhibit SC03 in the same vein asthe ones we've already seen.Def. Oh right.5416 However this was placed on your Maurice John KIRK dot comwebsite.Def. Well was it wordpress (?) site or was it Kirk flying vet?5416 Wordpress.Def. Yes.5416 Same poster as just seen. Yeah.Def. Well I have a different group of people who put things on there.5416 Ok, this was October 25th 2016.def. Yeah. Er, because, because, because the, the list down the righthand side show the corruption over the years of the policepreventing me from having a, a level playing field for the civil claim.5416 So in relation to this website then. Who has access to this website?Def. Well different people to the other one. But again the answer is36J40d24b78280ad24d84b6e62e281f5ec1ff-20RESTRICTEDMG 15(T)Page 20Record of Interview of: Maurice KIRKRESTRICTED

Tape CounterTimePersonspeakingTextuntil I've communicated with these people I can see why I shouldcause them trouble. Cos that’s all you’ll be.34:18 5416 So need permission.Def. And by the way if they put something on I don’t know where thatstands in law.5416 In terms of the restriction.Def. Unless I ask them to do it.5416 In terms of the restraining order.Def. Yeah.5416 The main ones where (INAUDIBLE) during this interview arenumber 4, if I read it out again.Def. Yes please.5416 Is place any information on the internet concerning Dr Tegwyn MelWILIAMS. Basically saying you are responsible, you upload ityourself. Ok.Def. Right, I personally did it?5416 Yeah. Number 5 is become a party to any material being placed onthe internet.Def. Yes, yes.5416 Which covers things like this being put on a website in your name.Or on your Facebook page.Def. I am. Yeah. I can't remember.5416 Ok, no problem. So you can't remember whether you placed thison the internet.Def. No.5416 Ok, no problem. Next page is. Where is it there. Its on the samedate, it was just under the picture and there's a paragraph here.Def. Oh. No, no, I’ll tell you. What's written will tell me whether whoput it. More likely because my English is so bad that if is a37J41d24b78280ad24d84b6e62e281f5ec1ff-21RESTRICTEDMG 15(T)Page 21Record of Interview of: Maurice KIRKRESTRICTEDTape CounterTimePersonspeakingTextparagraph that causes people not to understand the paragraph.One or two other people are putting these on. They're putting onother websites as well. I can confirm that is my writing. Show meone with a bit of writing on.35:41 5416 Here’s a bit of writing, its quite blurry. So I’ll read it to you firstand then I’ll show it to you to see if you can read it Ok.Def. Ok. Ok.5416 It’s a particular paragraph on a, on a page of writing which is ofinterest. It says.Def. Is it a letter, headed or anything?5416 Its marked ‘The issues include.’

Def. Oh, thank you.5416 We can't see the stuff above it. But are you aware of thisparagraph?Def. No. Just read it, I won't remember.5416 It says ‘Dr Tegwyn Mel WILLIAMS was blackmailed by South WalesPolice while in collusion with Professor Roger WOOD of SwanseaUniversity who himself also contributed, fabricated Caswell Clinicmedical records in that their victim should be sectioned to AshworthHigh Security Prison indefinitely due to his significant brain damage.Def. I would have written that.5416 That’s.Def. I would have written that.5416 You would have written that.Def. Whether I posted it, I think I'm more likely I posted it.5416 More than likely?Def. Yes.5416 But can't be 100 per cent sure.Def. No I can't. But I'm more likely now. Is there anything else in there38J42d24b78280ad24d84b6e62e281f5ec1ff-22RESTRICTEDMG 15(T)Page 22Record of Interview of: Maurice KIRKRESTRICTEDTape CounterTimePersonspeakingTextyou could read out. Cos I wrote that.36:37 5416 (INAUDIBLE) the paragraph that proceeded that one immediately.Def. (INAUDIBLE) Ok.5416 The purported wording indicates the prevention the claimantspublishing of the doctors indiscretions along with the then CPSprosecutor in the conspiracy to pervert the course of justice, oneDavid Gareth EVANS, photo to follow.Def. Yes, because he knew that I never got a restraining order and healso knew.5416 Are you familiar with that, that writing?Def. Yes. That’s me.5416 Is that something you wrote?Def. And also David Gareth EVAN, the prosecutor was, was sacked frombeing a prosecutor pretty quickly afterwards. Because he wastrying to introduce that first exhibit. And was blocked by the judge.This one.5416 I've got another picture here.Def. Yeah, the same one.5416 This was, yeah, the same one as SCO1. Forms part of SCO3because it was posted.Def. I can't add or subtract anything I've said.5416 No worries. That was posted on the same date as that paragraph.Def. Ok, ok.5416 And that on the Wordpress.Def. Yes. Ok.5416 SCO4, it’s the last one (INAUDIBLE).

4033 Yeah, its alright.Def. Yeah.5416 Was, its literally a (INAUDIBLE) version of the, the wanted poster39J43d24b78280ad24d84b6e62e281f5ec1ff-23RESTRICTEDMG 15(T)Page 23Record of Interview of: Maurice KIRKRESTRICTEDTape CounterTimePersonspeakingTextagain.37:46 Def. Can I just, can I just read what it says. This doctor wrote MauriceKIRK presents, he presents with symptoms entirely consistent witha mental illness namely paranoid delusional disorder, fixed falsebeliefs, unamenable to reason. 17 doctors or in amongst thempsychiatrists and psychologists, 17 now, have not agreed with thatstatement.5416 Ok. What I'm, what I'm investigating today.Def. Yeah I know.5416 Obviously isn’t, isn’t his clinical opinion. It’s the breach of this(INAUDIBLE).Def. No he was in breach of the law which meant I was not in breach ofa harassment under the defence, 8.4 is it, of the 1987 harassmentact. You cannot be convicted, prosecuted if you are detecting orpreventing crime. He was blackmailed to write something that hewas not legally entitled to do.5416 Ok.Def. He stood up in court and said something about brain scans whichhe was not qualified to do and they dropped everything because allthey were doing was fabricating to stop the machine gun case.They wanted me locked away for 10 years so they could avoid theembarrassment of the machine gun case.5416 Back to this picture.Def. Yes.5416 It’s a larger version of the one we showed you.Def. Yes, I can.5416 Just to confirm you made that.Def. I created that document.5416 Create, create a document.40J44d24b78280ad24d84b6e62e281f5ec1ff-24RESTRICTEDMG 15(T)Page 24Record of Interview of: Maurice KIRKRESTRICTEDTape CounterTimePersonspeakingText

39:18 Def. Yeah I had to stick it together and things.5416 Ok. And have you been party to putting this, placing this documenton the internet?Def. On a date I can't remember. Hang on, it also from his statementthat, report to have me locked away for life. Maurice KIRK hasevidence of significant brain damage to an area of his brainspecifically related to self awareness, judgement, decision making,self regulation of behaviour and control of motions. I hope youheard that. This is what they are doing to people in our countrywhen they can't when. As Voltaire said, I could quote it in French.When the state get it wrong its is dangerous to be right. This isclassic.5416 Ok. Moving on from November, October time.Def. Yeah.5416 Ok. Today before you were arrested the same officer, PCKARROWANA has accessed the internet again to see if there wereany, any further posts placed on the internet in relation to DrWILLIAMS. Ok. SCO5 is a screen shot from your Wordpress.Def. When did she do that?5416 This was done today. This morning. So this is a screen shot fromthe top of the Wordpress website. And it shows a video which isentitled.Def. Well, I was here wasn’t I? At the police station. That’s inside thispolice station.5416 Yeah.Def. I took that video.5416 Ok, we’ll come on to the video in a second but can you confirm thisis your website?Def. Can't remember what was on it. Yes I, I put that on that. I put41J45d24b78280ad24d84b6e62e281f5ec1ff-25RESTRICTEDMG 15(T)Page 25Record of Interview of: Maurice KIRKRESTRICTEDTape CounterTimePersonspeakingTextthat on there yesterday.41:03 5416 Ok.Def. Yeah, that now I've got something. I know I did that. I can't,can't. I was here for over 2 hours to make complaint about whatwe’re discussing but the courts have altered the records.5416 Ok, the video then. If we concentrate on that one, its exhibitSCO6. Ok, we've got a copy of that video.Def. Well, I can't remember what it said.4033 I’ll play it now. So I've gone into WWW.mauricejohnkirk.com andthen this is a video which is uploaded on that site. I’ll play thisthen just to job your memory.41:38 VIDEO PLAYED.43:41 VIDEO ENDS.Def. Yes.5416 Ok. In relation to that video then.

Def. I put that on.5416 You put that on to your website.Def. Oh yes.5416 You uploaded that yourself.Def. Yes, I did.5416 Ok, and similarly just below, you can just see the top of it there,below the video. The next page relates to.Def. Yes.5416 These two posters. We've come across them before.Def. Yes.5416 That one and that one.Def. Yeah, no, right. Good, I had a feeling if we got to a nearer time Iwould remember.5416 Absolutely. That’s (INAUDIBLE).42J46d24b78280ad24d84b6e62e281f5ec1ff-26RESTRICTEDMG 15(T)Page 26Record of Interview of: Maurice KIRKRESTRICTEDTape CounterTimePersonspeakingText44:06 Def. Yes. Yes. Lawfully.5416 Ok, and regarding the video, you refer to Tegwyn WILLIAMS.Def. Mmmm.5416 Can you clarify that for, can you confirm that for me?Def. Yes, I, I identified publicly the name Tegwyn WILLIAMS.5416 Ok. And can I just ask, you used the term ‘evil little shit.’Def. That wasn’t him.5416 Pardon my French. No, that’s what I want to clarify.Def. No, no, that was the prosecutor.5416 The prosecutor.Def. Who, who made sure that he could talk with me being withheldfrom the court room, on the 2nd December. I have the transcript.You see.5416 Ok, my question, because it wasn’t clear.Def. Don’t think you need it now but.5416 Wasn’t clear Mr KIRK from the video who you were referring to.Def. Ok.5416 That’s all I wanted to clarify in that sentence.Def. No, no, poor old Dr Tegwyn WILLIAMS is just gullible.(INAUDIBLE).5416 Ok. So the video and the post you placed onto the websiteyesterday, yesterday is that correct?Def. How many more times, I've given you what you want. So whyrepeat it.5416 I want to know how you put them on.Def. Oh I (INAUDIBLE).5416 Laptop, phone, internet café?Def. I can't remember.5416 How do you usually upload posts to your Wordpress website?43

J47d24b78280ad24d84b6e62e281f5ec1ff-27RESTRICTEDMG 15(T)Page 27Record of Interview of: Maurice KIRKRESTRICTEDTape CounterTimePersonspeakingText45:36 Def. I've got the laptop here. I expect it was that laptop.5416 Expect it was but can't confirm 100 per cent or?Def. Or, or my phone. Does it matter?5416 It just forms part of the investigation that’s all.Def. Oh, I see.5416 Ok. So phone or laptop, can't be sure.Def. You. But I still haven’t, no one will take a statement of complaintabout how the records have been altered. I'm entitled to thoserecords.5416 In relation to that.Def. So should you, you can't proceed without the records.5416 Mr KIRK. You, you’ve been in to the station yesterday and anincident has been created for your complaint along those lines Ok.The reason we’re here today is because we’re investigating.Def. Another one, a different.5416 A complaint along these lines Ok.Def. Is it going to take 3 months for me to be able to give a statement?5416 I don’t know how long its going to take for you to give a statement.Def. But you need it for this.5416 Its not my.Def. Situation.5416 Its not my investigation.Def. Its all the same subject.5416 They may be related subjects, however this investigation centreson this piece of paper Ok which the courts tell me is still in effectand still in order.Def. Well, well that’s not what the judge put across to everybody in thecourtroom.5416 That’s.44J48d24b78280ad24d84b6e62e281f5ec1ff-28RESTRICTEDMG 15(T)Page 28Record of Interview of: Maurice KIRKRESTRICTEDTape CounterTimePersonspeakingText46:46 Def. They, they, the prosecutor there have said well that makes thingsridicule, the restraining order ridiculous.5416 Mr KIRK, that’s something for the courts to decide, its not up tome.

Def. Well, they did decide it.5416 I have no influence over what will happen in court, anything likethat. Ok, that’s for them to decide.Def. But if that was in line, I would have been approached by the policeany time in the last two years because I've been aware that stuff isgoing up on my website whether I put it there or not for the lasttwo years. Why haven’t you people come to me since?5416 The answer of it,Def. Its, its.5416 I've got a very good answer in relation to that.Def. Good.5416 And that is that Dr WILLIAMS only became aware of himself.Def. Oh liar.5416 Or only made us aware back last September. Ok, so we've onlybeen investigating it since that date. We don’t routinely checkpeople are abiding by the terms of a restraining order.Def. You mean. You mean he hasn’t contacted you since September.5416 No, we've been in touch with him since but that’s when he madehis first report in relation to what your being interviewed today.Def. Yes but.5416 So that’s the reason why over the past two years and the previoustwo years before September nobody came knocking on your dooror had anything to say to you about it because we weren’tinvestigating it.Def. But, but he went to the police in that year, in 12, the year before45J49d24b78280ad24d84b6e62e281f5ec1ff-29RESTRICTEDMG 15(T)Page 29Record of Interview of: Maurice KIRKRESTRICTEDTape CounterTimePersonspeakingTextthat and said that I’d been round to his house with petrol can toburn his house down. He made a statement to you people to thateffect.48:09 5416 Yeah, but that was before then.Def. Yes I know, it was June 12 and his wife.5416 We’re investigating (INAUDIBLE).Def. His wife was a witness to it. Yes but its extremely relevant.Because he made a complaint and he said the police moved me on.That incident never happened. I didn’t now where he lived, I didn’twant to know where he lived. And yet I went to prison for thewhole summer until the CPS looked at it and realise that it washoax by Dr Tegwyn WILLIAMS and I was released. Thebackground behind all this.5416 Can I, can I clarify that.Def. So you say he's made a claim. Has he made, does he have tomake a complaint.5416 Yes.Def. For you to act on this?5416 Yes.

Def. Say that again slowly.5416 He needs to make a complaint.Def. So is his complaint genuine? If he can call the police out for meburning his house down. The, the petrol can.5416 That’s what I'm investigating, that’s what I'm investigating.Def. Well I want you to investigate the fact that he made a statement in12, June 12 saying that I arrived with a petrol can to burn hishouse down. I didn’t even know where he lived.5416 Ok, when you, you just. Take you back about 30 seconds. Youjust said CPS investigated over the summer whilst you remained in46J50d24b78280ad24d84b6e62e281f5ec1ff-30RESTRICTEDMG 15(T)Page 30Record of Interview of: Maurice KIRKRESTRICTEDTape CounterTimePersonspeakingTextprison then you were released.49:14 Def. Yes.5416 Ok, according to the Police National Computer you were releasedafter serving a sentence after conviction for that offence.Def. No, I was on remand.5416 Ok, that’s not what the.Def. I was on remand 3rd October.5416 That’s not what the Police National Computer says.Def. The new, the prosecutor.5416 It says that you were sentenced to a term of imprisonment.Def. For what?5416 For breach of a restraining order and threats to cause criminaldamage.Def. No, sorry this was before that date. This was 12 I said. That is 13.5416 Right.Def. Got it. We had the first one in 2012. 4th of May when the jury said49:51 NO VIDEO INPUT.49:52 Def. Whatever is a restraining order and the judge said not available.Right which of course is untrue. He was told by the prosecutor,David Gareth EVANS who I arrested that there are no records. Norecords?5416 Ok.Def. Well, dream on. But a year later, well 13, this one before then inJune 12 Dr Tegwyn WILLIAMS said that I was round at his house atnight with a can of petrol right.5416 Right Ok.Def. I was locked up for that on remand. And it wasn’t until themaximum 5 to 6 months which is what people get, fail to getremand for so that you can lock up a problem for 6 months47J51d24b78280ad24d84b6e62e281f5ec1ff-31RESTRICTEDMG 15(T)

Page 31Record of Interview of: Maurice KIRKRESTRICTEDTape CounterTimePersonspeakingTextknowing that it will never go to court. Well that was a classicexample. But when the, a new prosecutor took over on the 3rdOctober 12, he said no, this is a load of rubbish. I want tointerview Tegwyn WILLIAMS. And they realised it was all a hoax.The police had not even been to his house.50:57 5416 Ok. Ok.Def. The police had created a prison sentence without trial to effect mycivil damages claim.5416 Right so that was before this?Def. Yes, the year before.5416 Ok, right.Def. Yeah, all extremely relevant.5416 We’re only investigating after this piece of paper (INAUDIBLE)Def. Yes, but you should be investigating the veracity of TegwynWILLIAMS.5416 In what way?Def. I've given you an example. He fabricated that I’d gone round to hishouse with a can of petrol and that I didn’t even know where helived. Well, lets pretend I did know. The police took a statementoff him and on it he wrote the police came to my property andmoved me on. I was still there apparently.5416 Ok.Def. What a load of nonsense, you know, do lally lally. Right, Oh that’s.5416 I've got no further questions John in relation to the breach ofrestraining order?4033 No.5416 Ok. We've asked all the questions we feel relevant in relation tothe offence you’ve been arrested for today.Def. Yeah, good. Can I have a copy of everything?48J52d24b78280ad24d84b6e62e281f5ec1ff-32RESTRICTEDMG 15(T)Page 32Record of Interview of: Maurice KIRKRESTRICTEDTape CounterTimePersonspeakingText51:54 5416 Ok. Our notes aren’t.Def. No, no, I didn’t mean that. I mean a copy of the exhibits.5416 The exhibits, if your going to defending yourself in court they canbe made available to you at a later.Def. Well (INAUDIBLE) myself, I would like them now.5416 They can be made available to you at a later date.Def. Well no, if I'm going to court tomorrow I want them before I go.5416 That can be arranged but.

Def. You can photocopy.5416 We can't give these to you right now.Def. No. Before I go to court.5416 Ok, we can speak to the custody sergeant.Def. And I want a copy of the custody records before I leave.5416 How about when we go back to the custody desk you can ask thecustody sergeant that yourself.Def. I won't get them. I very rarely do. Especially on this subject.5416 I can't speak for the custody sergeant.Def. No. I know, but the police set up this, this whole thing about mehaving a, a, permanent brain damage. Oh yes, this is serious.5416 You can ask the custody sergeant when we get to the desk.Def. Well, might as well piss in the wind.5416 Its your choice.Def. Yeah. I don’t have a full bladder.5416 Right we've got no further questions. Have you got anything elseyou want to ask before we close the interview?Def. Can you get me a telegraph to read or something.5416 Again we’ll ask the sergeant when we get to the desk, see if there'sone.Def. Well he wouldn’t.49J53d24b78280ad24d84b6e62e281f5ec1ff-33RESTRICTEDMG 15(T)Page 33Record of Interview of: Maurice KIRKRESTRICTEDTape CounterTimePersonspeakingText54:03 5416 We’ll see if there's one on the board.Def. He wouldn’t, he wouldn’t even ring a lawyer for me. He was giventhe number and an hour and 15 minutes I think it was before Imade a complaint to the nurse and the nurse made sure that alawyer was informed. That’s the quality of our custody sergeant.He may have changed by now.5416 It is a different one.Def. It could be a different one.5416 It is a different one.Def. Ok. Ever hopeful.5416 In that case the time is 20.44 hours on the 1st March 2017, I'mgoing to stop the recording.50J5470126ca4e30d413bbc8f11998dca44ed70126ca4e30d413bbc8f11998dca44ed-1