women catholic deacons 'no longer taboo' - the local.pdf

7/28/2019 Women Catholic deacons 'no longer taboo' - The Local.pdf

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30/04/13 08:00Women Catholic deacons 'no longer taboo' - The Local

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Archbishop of Freiburg Robert Zollitsch, who chairs the German Bishops' Conference, called for the change at theend of a four-day meeting to discuss possible reforms.

The conference, the first of its kind, invited 300 Roman Catholic experts to propose reforms. Zollitsch's commentsecho year-long calls from the Central Committee of German Catholics to permit women to become deacons. OnSunday, Zollitsch said that aim was no longer a 'taboo.'

Zollitsch said the Catholic Church could only regain credibility and strength by committing to reform. He describedan "atmosphere of openness and freedom" at the conference.

Deacons assist priests during church services and can perform baptisms and marriages outside of mass. Their primary role however is to serve the needy in their community and their duties are considered secular rather thanpastoral.

Another proposal to emerge from the conference was to extend the rights of remarried divorcees to sit on churchbodies such as parish councils. Conference members also discussed the possibility of granting them the right to

receive Holy Communion and attend confession.

"It's important to me that, without undermining the sanctity of marriage, these men and women are taken seriouslywithin the church and feel respected and at home," said Zollitsch. At present the reforms remain speculative andthere is no proposed time-frame for their implementation. The position of divorcees remains highly controversialwithin the Church.

The conference also touched on the difficulty, particularly in eastern Germany, of recruiting people to work for Catholic institutions such as hospitals and kindergarten. At present the Church can only employ Roman Catholics.However Zollitsch called for work permits to be extended to non-Catholics and to those with "different lifestyles."This would technically apply to homosexual people too. However Church labour reforms are unlikely to beintroduced in the next three years.

While reform might be slow to come, the sentiments expressed at the conference are a signal to many that changeis on the way. "I have never experienced a process of strategy development as transparent as this one," saidThomas Berg, of the Baden-Wrttemberg Leadership Academy, who attended the conference.

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Tony Esolen

A slow suicide pill. Would the Church make the same case for bigamists being"re spected," or porn ographers? We don't go to Church because we are respectable. Wego to Church because we are sinners. If you want "respect," the world will give you plenty-- to your undoing. As for deaconesses, if you want to clear out the last young men fromthe Church, go for it. See how well it has worked in the Anglican Church.

59 3

athelstane

Slow suicide, indeed.

It's fairly obvious that the goal in view is women priests, not ju st dea cons. This will(by design) only help to accustom Catholics to the idea of women clergy. Which,

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a e a , s w a eacons a e - ey ece ve o y o e s. nce you conce e oneholy order, how you can you deny the others?

Many of the German bishops are clearly desperate for relevance in a secularizingsociety. They don't seem to realize that "relevance" is a sure trip to ecclesiasticaldeath. Ask the Protestant churches in Germany who ordain women how it'sworking out for them.

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Greg C olle y

That the goal is women priests is not obvious in the slightest. Areyou familiar with the distinct difference between the diaconate andpriesthood that has been developing in church law over the last couple ofdecades? It is a recognition that women are the ones serving in the churchright now, and as a result, they deserve the same recognition they received

in the early church -- ordination as deacons. Those who are working inpastoral ministry know precisely the need for more ordained deacons,especially with the expanded ability to provide the sacrament of the sick(which is not currently possible). This is not about a political agenda, it isabout ministry.

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Michael Pigg

Only priests can perform the Anointing of the Sick, so more

deacons, male or female, will not help in this area. 14

Greg Colley

I provide pastoral care in hospitals, and anointing is onespiritual service where the lack of qualified ministers is terriblyacute. Allowing deacons to perform the anointing is actually morecomplicated that ordaining women as deacons. I hope both areconsidered, and as regards anointing, I know many priests who

would argue in favor of allowing deacons to perform the rite. 2 3

bonaventure

One diocese in Germany (which, btw, has proven to be atotal failure) cannot try to dictate to the universal Church. TheChurch's teaching on ordination does not belong to a diocese. Itbelongs to the entire Church.

Oh, and you seem to totally fail to address the "different lifestyles"mention by this bishop. I am sure you'll try to spin it. Wonder if you'lls in it well enou h to include edo hilia? You know the u and
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coming thing after sodomy.

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John Rayner

Anointing of the sick also forgives sin when a person isunable to make oral confession. Only priests have the power toforgive sin. It is therefore out of the question for deacons toadminister the sacrament.

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Christine Sorensen

That is true and horribly sad. As a Pastoral Minister I knowtoo well the chaos of a stream of phone calls trying to find a priestto do an anointing in an emergency. People often die without thesacrament they or their family have requested... This is a too sadreality.

JefZeph

We don't even need to look as far as Anglicanism. Examine the effects of Altar girls, and that tells us all we need to know.

Regarding deaconesses, it seems congruous with "civil unions', in that itsacceptance will only serve as a stepping stone. We know with certainty that thosewho push for it will never be satisfied with just being a humble deacon.

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bzeealbub

What effects of girls are you referring too? At my parish even with agrade school attached boys did not want to serve at all of the masses.When given the chance several young ladies stepped up to SERVE.

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Joris Heise

If it is of God, it is the right thing. The task of the church--hierarchy andlaity--is to discern the will of the Father--not just keep doing things the way theyhave always been done, nor jump into modern newfangledness. Not destroy thelaw, but fulfill it...if deaconesses are what God has called for, then it is the rightthing, whether your or like want it or not. If the church changes to be"respectable," then that would be a sin, of course (see the Sermon on the Mount);but if it changes to obey what is discerned as the Will of God--well, the church hadbetter change!

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Greg Colley

Tony, read up on your history of women deacons and deaconesses. Twodifferent ministries, historically speaking (and distinct from "widows" and "virgins"as well). And don't try to blame "women in ministry" for young people questioningtheir Christian vocation. I would suggest that the tone of "exclusivity" andstructures of male domination don't reflect their experience in life, and hence they

fail to see the relevance of the church. Thanks for helping on that point, by theway. And I personally have a completely different understanding of what "respect"means in this context: it means being made to feel welcome. If we are all sinners,then the pastoral mission of the church ought to be opening wide the doors to theprocess of transformation. We should "welcome" the divorced, the bigamists, andthe pornographers -- as well as the close minded and patronizing -- so that all canwork towards grace.

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Magdalene Prodigal

"transform"? Into the mess that the episcopal and Lutheranchurches are in? I do hope you are not a Catholic Franciscan with thisattitude.

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Greg Colley

Transforming people and their hearts away from sin andtowards a Gospel form of life. Was there another pastoral missionwere you thinking of?

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Michael Pigg

Confirming them in sin is not pastoral and surely nottransforming.

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Greg Colley

So, you are saying that to welcome sinners into Church isconfirming them in sin? Can you explain? Does this mean that thebest way to transform sinners is to deny them access to thesacraments? Could you clarify?

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John Rayner

Sinners are always welcome into the Church, starting withthem confessing their sins and attempting to sin no more. After theyhave received the sacrament of reconciliation they can, as we allcan, go on to receive other sacraments.
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Rudy Auerbach

A lot of insecure men here afraid to allow women theirrightful place as equals before God.

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Christine Sorensen

I do not get why when women get to be in a position that men leave thatposition. Why do they clear out?

Fisherman

Didn't another German cleric try to reform the Catholic Church a few hundredyears ago? You can't reform the Church which Our Lord founded.....you can only leave it.

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Joris Heise

Fisherman, you have a poor, poor sense of history. Not only didConstantine REALLY re-form the church (He started Christians persecuting oneanother for heresy, and, though a pagan himself, insisted on the Nicene Creed'screation, etc.). Pachomius & Benedict started monasticism, and, having askedFrancis of Assisi explicit to "rebuild My Church," the Lord definitely instituted,through Francis, significant re-forms, including the efforts to eliminate simony andother financial sins.

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dplunkt

Hello Mr. Heise, reforming in an effort to rid the Church of "sin"should and is an ongoing reform project. However, I think Fisherman;s fearis that "reform" will be a cover term for introducing sin into the Church,same sex marriage for example.

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Hegesippus

Irenaeus wrote 'Against Heresies' over a century beforeConstantine's conversion. And Hegesippus was identifying was identifyingtheir creep into the churches before that. Eusebius is a good place to startfor historical accuracy.

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Greg Colley

Ironic, isn't it, that the Church has changed sufficiently -- withoutreforming, which is your thesis -- that many of the criticisms leveled by Luther are
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no longer applicable. And you might also be interested to know that PopeBenedict himself, in one of his final addresses, pointed out the need for theChurch to continually develop. You seem to be describing a type offundamentalism, which Catholic theology rejects out of hand...as well as thepastoral idea of "love it or leave it." Can you steer me towards the materials thatform your thinking on these matters? I have not encountered them in Catholicism.Except in blog comments, I should say.

3

AuthenticBioethics

Not all reforms or developments are good and many in fact wouldcause the Church to abandon the Faith. The putative reforms called for bythis German conference cannot achieved if the Church is to remainCatholic.

This article, and the words attributed to that archbishop, are full of factualerrors.

5

Greg Colley

Can you point out some of the errors in the article so thatwe can discuss them?

2

John Rayner

The Deaconate is part of Priesthood. The Church hasalready declared that it is not able to ordain women to thepriesthood. This is an infallible, binding, declaration. For just thatreason it cannot ordain women as Deacons ever. We already havewomen in the Church who attend to the poor, the sick and thedisplaced, These women are called "nuns". Perhaps Germany islacking in nuns!

9

Gary Simmons

Bingo, John. The clergy, including the Deaconate, is part ofwhat is handed down by Jesus. Nobody may amend its form butJesus. Now, the Cardinalate or the religious, that's a differentmatter. Women are quite capable of being religious and thus servingthe Church. To say that deacon requirements can be changedbased on a democratic vote or a bishop's fiat is ridiculous.

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Rudy Auerbach
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Infallibility is the result of Vatican I - one of the biggestmistakes the Church ever made and needing to be completelyabandoned.

1

dplunkt

hello greg, many of the criticized things introduced by Luther arestill applicable today, "Bible alone" is one example. Having said that I thinkthe Church does develop but is dosen't "Change". What I mean is thatwhat was "sin" in the first century is still "sin" today. That act onhomosexual intercourse is and will always be considered disordered forexample. But...how we treat the sinner can develop (e.g. we don't kill folksfor heresy anymore). With regard to how divorced and remarried couplesare dealt with is an opportunity for the Church I think.

3

Rudy Auerbach

Nonsense. Eating meat on Friday used to be mortal sin and- poof - it's gone! Limbo - poof - gone, too! We apologize to Galileobecause he was right about the solar system and the Bible and theChurch were wrong. It changes, and it needs to change more - or asObama and Darwin would say, "evolve."

1

JoFro

Oh please! Eating meat on Fridays was never dogma! It wasa discipline. Limbo was never ever dogma! It was discussed forcenturies but the Church never made an official statement untilrecently. And no, the Church apologised for the way it handled theGalileo affair, it didn't apologise for condemning Galileo becauseGalileo was incorrect! Please read up on actual history rather thanreading liberal screeds on the Catholic Church

salvemaria

"Zollitsch said the Catholic Church could only regain credibility and strength bycommitting to reform."

No, it would only make it more worldly, or specifically, egalitarian. In other words, moreMarxist.

The only inevitability about all this is that despite the 'errors of Russia' spreading

throughout the world, The Immaculate Heart of Mary will triumph.

Salve Maria!
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"The Bible and Homosexual Practice" is evidence enough of that.

Oppressors vs Oppressed was not a primary metanarrative in Jesustexts. Rather, it was Jesus vs. the Jewish establishment which hadperverted the law. Note how Jesus spoke well of the centurion inMatthew 8, despite the fact that the Centurion is part of the Roman

army that subjugated and occupied God's promised land ofPalestine. He is an oppressor par excellence, but a good guy on thewrong side. However, his faith proved a foil for the faithlessness of

ALL Israel. THAT is the central theme is rather Jesus vs.establishment Judaism.

Reg Platt

Yes, of course. Transparency is the way to go in managing progressive change inthe Church. Female Holy Orders and an acceptance of alternate lifestyles are inevitable,since our society has already evolved in its understanding of how the antiquated notionsof 'sin' and 'gender roles,' or of 'good' and 'bad,' or 'true' and 'false' have held back theChurch from the popularity it could obtain. After all, destroying an eternal and unchangingChurch to save it as if it were a popular nightclub on the skids makes sense, and whenthe progressives present the next change to what they're currently proposing (becauseafter all, it's only true for now), the pieces of the reconstituted Church can be swepttogether into yet another new configuration that will no doubt delight Jesus when Hereturns to judge the living and the dead and cast all those who have chosen love ofthemselves over Him into eternal fire (although He won't because that would be"judgmental.")

I suppose that you guys could just get out of the unchanging and eternal Church andbecome Protestants, or is dragging the rest of us to Hell with you just too saucy an ideato pass up?

24 1

wissahickon

Exactly, Reg. Why is it more important for them to stink up our spiritualhome than to enjoy the warm welcome that like-minded sects would offer?

2 1

David

He's nuts....legit nuts...

13

Brad

Not going to happen.

12
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12/22



DeaconJohnMBresnahan

First--there were no women ordained in the first group ordained with St. Stephen just as there were no women chosen by Christ to be among his priests, the apostles.Second, since deacons are considered under Holy Orders, it is clear that if deaconessesare ordained, the Catholic Church will begin to crumble and disintegrate as have so many

mainstream Protestant churches like the Episcopalians. People don't trust a religion thatbecomes a lapdog for the secular world.

10

Joris Heise

it is clear that if deaconesses are ordained, the Catholic Church willbegin to crumble and disintegrate as have so many mainstream Protestantchurches like the Episcopalians. gratis asseritur, gratis negatur. It is NOT clear. If itis God's will--not to become a "lapdog for the secular world--if it IS God's will,

then we will have not only women deacons, but women priests. Why do critics sooften cede to human motives in addressing changes in the Church. The SevenSacraments are wonderful signs of grace, but, as Blessed Cardinal Newmanpointed out, they evolved and grew out of seeds in the early church--not to caterto secular needs, but to grow the Will of God in response to the living Body ofChrist. Look at the evolution of the Sacrament of Confession. It wasn't to a priestat all back then--some 1600 years ago. It changed over the centuries. why cannot"ordinations" be of the same seed-like development--if it is of God. If apriori, yousay it is not of God--then you are Adam and Eve deciding good and evil foryourself, and breaking the First Commandment. If it is of God, it will happenbecause He wants it...not because it is Marxist, secular, or criminally insane.

1 4

AuthenticBioethics

Your analogy to Confession is not good. Confession itself hasalways had the same matter and form, the same minister and recipient -the manner of its implementation has developed, but not the Sacramentitself. As far as I can tell from the pertinent magisterial documents, theSacrament of Holy Orders simply does not work (given the right form andminister) on a woman, the way the Sacrament of Confirmation, though allother things being right, does not work on the unbaptized. The Church hasnot been given by God the power to ordain women to the priesthood, ofwhich the diaconate is a part.

6

Reg Platt

God has made his will known, through the actions of the Church,protected from teaching error by the Holy Spirit. If the Church (or anyonewith even a small understanding of how this all works) rejects female
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14/22



'We lacked distance:' Armbruster1 comment 2 days ago

mathew "I really did think things could only getbetter. But after only a few days it became

SPDs and Greens unite for election battle6 comments 2 days ago

derExDeutsche 'A government that robs Peterto pay Paul can always depend on the support
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