what is carry over and carry under at the boiler drum

7/27/2019 What is Carry Over and Carry Under at the Boiler Drum

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What is carry over and carry under at the boiler drum?

11 days ago

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StanleyUnfollow Follow Stanley

Stanley Dalziel In my 30 years playing around with boilers. US Navy and 2 power plants. I

consider boiler carryover to be anything that escapes the boiler except for the dry steam. Water,chemicals, silica, ect. I have never heard of the "carry under" that you refered to.

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2/12

DavidUnfollow Follow David

David Ripley Right..."Carryover" is a term that relates (usually) moisture "carried over" fromthe steam drum to the steam piping.



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MahendraUnfollow Follow Mahendra

Mahendra Singadia In simpple words carry over means Water entering to the steam and carry

under means steam entering with water like in water walls.



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Sandro RichterUnfollow Follow Sandro Richter

Sandro Richter Garcia Rodriguez Carryover is a result of the incomplete separation of steamfrom the steam-water mixture in the boiler drum. Operating a HRSG drum significantly below

design pressure is a cause of carryover. For a given steaming/firing rate, the steam flow passagesare sized for a specific volumetric flow rate. Reducing the boiler pressure from design results inlower density, more voluminous steam. Consequently, the resulting steam velocity increases.

This increased velocity increases the likelihood of entraining boiler water in the steam.

So, for the first criteria, the pressure setpoint is based on the pressure necessary to prevent

carryover from the HRSG. This pressure is a function of mass flow rate. As mass flow rate out ofthe drum increases, a higher pressure is required to prevent carryover.
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3/12

I have never heard of the carry under.


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Hendra DjatiUnfollow Follow Hendra Djati

Hendra Djati Perbowo there's no such thing as carry under of boiler carry under.

Carryover is water carried over in steam to the turbine.Mr Sandro, but if we could maintain steam temperature will the chances of carry over?



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stevenUnfollow Follow steven

steven skomra Ok, if carryover is water in the steam what do you call the foam generated whenyour TDS is too high?



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4/12


Hendra Djati Perbowo foaming



1

viswanathanUnfollow Follow viswanathan

viswanathan govindasamy the feed water and the water separated from the steam/water

mixture, from the water wall tubes that enter the drum, mix in the drum and is carried down

through the pipes (downcomers) to the furnace water wall bottom header. In certain conditions,there is vortex formation at the entry to the downcomer pipes. due to this vortex, some steam is

also getting into the downcomer along with the water. This phenomena is termed 'carry under'.Carry under is undesirable since affects circulation through the furnace tubes and can causeinstability in the flow in some installations. vortex breakers are added at the inlet of downcomer

to avoid the occurrance. This term is familiar to Boiler designers and consultants. However, it is

not very commonly experienced and as it is not easy to notice the effect even if present.



11
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5/12


Mahendra Singadia Thanke you very much sir .@ Mr viswanathan.



0


viswanathan govindasamy Dear Mr. Singadia

thanks and welcome



0

UdhayakumarUnfollow Follow Udhayakumar

Udhayakumar Venkataraman Nice learning , has fittest meaning . Vortex breaker is present ,

now related to Carry under... Good.



0
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6/12

VIRGILIOUnfollow Follow VIRGILIO

VIRGILIO ABRIL Carry over on boiler is simply the water steam incomplete separation, never

heard carry under or don't exist on boiler language.



0

nageswara raoUnfollow Follow nageswara rao

nageswara rao samayam uma venkata dear viswanathan, thanks for your valuble information.

This is first time i heared about this term.



0


viswanathan govindasamy Dear Mr. Nageswara rao samayam uma venkata

thanks
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7/12



0

RajkumarUnfollow Follow Rajkumar

Rajkumar renganathan Nice Mr.Viswanathan! I think this carry over and carry underaccour in

relation with boiler swelling (carry over) boiler shrinking(carry under). Am I correct?



0

ThamUnfollow Follow Tham

Tham Chelvan Carryover & Carry under are terms used in the boiler circulation system, and

most of the boiler designers know about this. For Carry over all of the above discussions cover

enough to explain its definition. Let me add few more points for Carry under, its related items forthe circulatioin system.

Definition of Carryunder: Steam mixed in with the water being returned to the drum by the steam

separators. Normally, depending on the OEM of the boiler system, depending on the efficiency

of the steam separators, it ranges between 0-15%.

Definition of Subcooling: The difference in temperature between the water in the downcomer

and the saturation temperature. The 0F sub cooling implies saturated conditions and this ispreferred for normal operation. If steam is present in the downcomer it is known as entrainment.

Entrainment can be due to a steaming economizer or more commonly, excessive carryunder. For

better tube protection, zero excessive carryunder is desired. Depending on which OEM designedthe boiler system and the efficiency of the steam separators, the maximum allowable excessive
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8/12

carryunder could be from zero to few %, so that the total carryunder is NOT greater than 15%.

Carryunder greater than 15% will have localized tube heating problems due to film boiling intubes. Excessive steaming and thus the excessive carryunder will lead to tube over heating.

For a good circulation and tube protection, nucleate boiling is preferred and film boiling shouldbe avoided. The cause of the departure from nucleate boiling (DNB) is influenced by geometricaland operational factors.

Geometrical factors include tube ID, wall construction (membrane wall, tube spacing, tubescreen), internal surface condition (smooth tubes, rifled tubes, deposits etc.) and the tube position

(vertical, inclined, curved). Operational factors include pressure, local quality (% of steam by

weight) or subcooling, mass velocity, heat flux, water chemistry, etc. High exit quality in smooth

tube walls at high-pressure operation cannot be permitted, because of the danger of DNB.

Vortex breakers at the entry of the downcomer as Mr. Viswanathen poited out are to minimize

the carry under.

1 day ago Unlike Like


7


Mahendra Singadia Thanke you sir,



0
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9/12

ChrisUnfollow Follow Chris

Chris Comi Regarding earlier comment about foaming - foaming is a separate problem withdifferent causes and corrective actionb, but it can also lead to carryover.



0


Hendra Djati Perbowo as a result of deviating (hunting) drum level



0

MichaelUnfollow Follow Michael

Michael Spangle With regard to the term carryunder, do a Google search for the following:

nureg/ia-0224 - NRCThere are several references to that term.

Also, the following document references the same condition:Influence of heat transport, deposits and condensor leakages upon corrosion in steam generators

W. M. M. Huijbregts* , J.H.N. Jelgersma* and A. Snel*

VGB Kraftwerkstechnik 55, 1, Jan. 1975, pp. 26/39.

* N,V. KEMA (joint laboratories electric utilities in The Netherlands) Utrechtseweg 310,Anhelm
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10/12

Boiler Operation Engineering, Questions and Answers, by P. Chattopadhyay would also be a

good reference.

In simple terms, carryover is when the water level gets high enough, or the steam/water

separation is incomplete enough, that water droplets wind up making their way to the turbine.

Carryunder is the condition where the water level drops low enough that steam winds up goingplaces, such as the downcomers, that you don't want it to go.

(Of course, carryunder should never be confused with Carry Underwood.)



0true 24 24 groupItem?seeM


Tham Chelvan Let me add some additional points to the Carry over.

The total drum moisture carryover as sampled by steam samplers is composed of twocomponents. That is Mechanical Carryover and Vaporous Carryover. At the 0-100 PSIA drumpressure the vaporous carryover is negligible, based on Henry's Law's (Concentration of Sodium

in Vapor phase = K x Concentration of recirculated water in drum). K is the distribution

coefficient which is a function of drum pressure and concentration of solids in the steam, and atthe low drum pressure it is in the order of 10^(-5) %. So, the total carry over is equal to

mechanical carry over, and normally for HRSGs, the carry over is referred to mechanical carry

over.

The mechanical carryover is defined as the liquid entrainment as a percent of the steam mass

flow for each drum. American Boiler Manufacturers Association (ABMA) has an allowable

mechanical carry over limit for various drum pressures. For a drum operating pressure range of0-100 psig, the allowable mechanical carryover is about 0.03%. The normal way of determiningthat there is a mechanical carry over is by the measurement of Sodium concentration in the

steam.

During normal operation if the steam quality has a less than 2 ppb sodium, then the mechanical

carry over is within acceptable limits. If the Sodium concentration in steam goes beyond 2 ppb, it

should give some alarm, and beyond say typical design limit of 5 ppb, it should alert for some
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remedial action such as all volatile treatment/phosphate treatment actions to bring the

water/steam quality within allowable limits.


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Tham Chelvan The ABMA's allowable mechanical carry over limit for 100 to 1000 psig, the

allowable mechanical carryover increases in steps of 0.01-0.015% for every 100 -150 psigincrease upto 0.1% total at 1000 psig. For 1000 to 1800 psig drum pressure, the allowable

mechanical carryover is about 0.1%; For 1800 to 2600 psig, the allowable mechanical carryover

is about 0.2%; For 2600 to 2900 psig, the allowable mechanical carryover is about 0.34%;



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vijay patil boiler drum carry over means flooding of drum and water goes in HPT turbine ,and

carry under means low water level in drum which causing starvation of boiler tube ..

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what is carry over and carry under at the boiler drum

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