what happen to boiler tubesdrums when aux power supply fails while boiler running at full load and...

7/27/2019 What happen to boiler tubesdrums when aux power supply fails while boiler running at full load and boiler feed w

1/13

What happen to boiler tubes/drums when aux power supply fails while boiler

running at full load and boiler feed water stops for one hour?

1 month ago

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Rajeev Sandilya (AMIE),FAISAL SAJJADlike this

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MahendraUnfollow Follow Mahendra

Mahendra Singadia At BFP trips automatically boiler will be trip as interlock. So immidiately

close the feed water valves, stop the fuel feeders and maintain drum level as it is don't open anydrains vents which one can drain the water. Now if there in no water in Boiler turbes then

starvation will happen in Boiler. Due to hi furnace temp and load when ther is no water in Boiler

tubes boiler tubes will bend due to thermal effect.

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2/13

JigarUnfollow Follow Jigar

Jigar Dhabalia If all actions are taken like stop coal feeders, close drain, etc. then how boiler

water tubes would experience starvation?



0

DarrenUnfollow Follow Darren

Darren Wilson Is this a CFB boiler or PC? By aux power Im assuming you mean station

service. A loss of station service is typically not an issue for a pulverized coal boiler. The boilerwill trip, drum level will go erratic, youll likely lift the safetys, but there is not usually enough

residual furnace temperature to cause waterwall damage.

A CFB boiler could have issues and many times a redundant power supply is required for the

BFPs (or entire station service), or an emergency diesel powered jockey feedwater pump is

required.



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3/13

KennethUnfollow Follow Kenneth

Kenneth Randall Were any alarm events captured and were drum levels compromised ? Severedamage could have occurred ( and is likely the case ) therefore a thorough inspection and hydro

testing are in order. Materials used in water tube steam generator construction are not forgiving

when quench water levels are lost, regardless of firing rates. Good luck with your investigation.



1

MahendraUnfollow Follow Mahendra

Mahendra Singadia @ Mr Jigar I am trying to tell you that when you do all this activity Boiler

will be safe. If not than starvation will happen.



1


Jigar Dhabalia I referred to CFB boiler. As power fails, all auxiliaries stops - PA fan, SA fan,ID fan, BFW pumps and so coal feeding also. Now this will generate Boiler Trip signal whichwill close the steam valve. Next pressure built-up and make header safety valve to pop-up.

Pressure comes down. CBD /IBD also closes. So now there is no steam / water escape from the

boiler. Water is still available inside water-wall tubes and economizer(there is NRV between

BFW pumps and steam drum). Water level in drum will go down quickly below its minimumlevel but drum temperature is still below design value. Water cubage is nearly 40% of boiler

capacity. In this condition which way boiler tues/drum is unsafe?
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4/13



1

DarrenUnfollow Follow Darren

Darren Wilson Jigar, with a CFB boiler, it's typically recommended that some type of

emergency back-up is required to ensure that enough feedwater is introduced into the drum to

maintain drum level in such an event. The required flow rate will need to be determined by theboiler OEM. Much like a biomass boiler, the residual fuel left in the CFB furnace has the

potential to contain enough energy / heat to damage the waterwalls (or other componentsexposed to the radiant section). Given that the fuel will be "Starved" of O2, some operators will

feel that the potential for damage is low and will take the risk. I would consult the boiler OEM.



1

FransUnfollow Follow Frans

Frans de Graaf in the past i experienced some blown pipes on a waste incinerator due to the

amount of fuel we simply opend the doiler doors en hosed the fire with firehoses, might seem

drastic but you can not feed a boiler with a blown pipe.If the boilerdrum is empty and the fans and fuel are out ther is sufficient water in a typical boiler

to survive. And remember during this outage the water in the economisers will probably

evaporate so it takes a wile before ther is water comming to the drum.


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5/13

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0

BrijeshUnfollow Follow Brijesh

Brijesh Sharma Mr jigar's question has an unaddressed part till now that auxiliary is out for one

hr.In CFB boiler the furnace temperature will show the temperature at say 850 deg.Well, thatwill be the temperature of static position of the bed which thermocouple has sensed and not the

fluidizing bed where in maximum heat flux is there. Boiler safety valve will pop & reset once,

after that provided no drains/vents open,the drum level will then make up to an extent by eco.

evaporation with reduction in pressure. I have experianced one case of the similar nature & noabnormality recorded. Having said that , it is always recommended that & rather mandatory to

have auxiliary back up for boiler safety. It is a part of IBR inspection guidelines as well.



0

UdhayakumarUnfollow Follow Udhayakumar

Udhayakumar Venkataraman Even the boiler trips and all fuel cut off, no feeding to make upthe drum level to meet evaporation , slight overheating of tubes possible. Boiler running not

allowed without Auxiliary power and BFP. Cut off all sources of heat to Boiler.



0
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6/13

nirbhayUnfollow Follow nirbhay

nirbhay kumar Any one can explain for the CFBC fuel feeding , coal and char coal mixing

ration , etc..if possible pls explain full CFBC light up procedure.



0


Jigar Dhabalia For a 130tph boiler with 54 CuM water cubage, is starvation possible? I

searched on internet for tube failure on power failure but didn't come across any such example.Rather tube failure reported more because of internal deposit and blockage. Another cae I came

across was bottom header drain valve was left open for some other reason and forgot to closeleading to water-wall tube damage.



0

PrakashUnfollow Follow Prakash
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7/13


8/13

career and I am usually suprised that our boilers and support equipment are returned to service

with little or no damage. FYI - I've seen more damage with a loss of DC power when compared

to the loss of AC power.


Reply privately Flag as inappropriate Flag aspromotion

0

JayUnfollow Follow Jay

Jay Pomeroy At one time we tripped our BFPs on a unit trip (once through boiler). Cracking ofthe webbing between the tubes was caused by the tubes cooling at different deg/hr. Then one

BFP was left on to circulate water. In your case that was not possible. In our drum units not

much damage was done by loss of Feedwater Flow. In fact drum level and BCP differentialpressure were monitored by trip logic and feedwater flow was not.



0

Mohana PrakasaUnfollow Follow Mohana Prakasa

Mohana Prakasa G If the Aux Power supply fails for an hour or so, it is catastrophic to thewater wall tubes. Since this is a CFBC boiler, there could be a small amount of steam generation

possible even after closing the main steam stop valve and shutting down the fans due to thepresence of large quantity of refractory lining. It is better to have a Turbo-driven feed water

pump, which could be run to maintain the water level in the drum with the available steam

pressure. If the plant is not having any black start DG set, then this is the only solution to savethe boiler from tube rupture.
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edin.com/groupItem?flag=&gid=1513267&type=member&item=238057337&commentID=137068896&flagReason=INAhttp://www.linkedin.com/groupMsg?displayCreate=&contentType=MEBC&connId=106467230&groupID=1513267&goback=%2Egde_1513267_member_238057337http://www.linkedin.com/groupItem?setUnlike=&gid=1513267&type=member&item=238057337&commentID=137068896&csrfToken=ajax%3A7470441211275342786&trk=gde_unlkcmt&goback=%2Egde_1513267_member_238057337http://www.linkedin.com/groupItem?setUnlike=&gid=1513267&type=member&item=238057337&commentID=137068896&csrfToken=ajax%3A7470441211275342786&trk=gde_unlkcmt&goback=%2Egde_1513267_member_238057337


9/13



1

Robert K.Unfollow Follow Robert K.

Robert K. Fisonic As long as you have steam available if you have a Fisonic Boiler Feedwater

Pump FBFP installed it will provide pumping of water to the drum with no electricity or electric

pump. Fisonic system has no moving parts.Robert 212 732 3777



0

EdwardUnfollow Follow Edward

Edward Simpson Suggest updating resume and contacting the head hunters....



1
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10/13

RAVINDRAUnfollow Follow RAVINDRA

RAVINDRA TRIPATHI Since Fuel is cutoff, chances of water tube damage is less.Boxup the

Boiler with all drains and vents closed.After restoring the power first makeup the drum water

level to the normal value and then start the fans for normal litup.



0

true 28 28 groupItem?seeM

Robert K.Unfollow Follow Robert K.

Robert K. Fisonic Ed I am wiling to share this new technology with you, or yourbrotherHomer (he definitely could use a new job). He is much more open to something new and

innovative.



0

Hendra DjatiUnfollow Follow Hendra Djati
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11/13

Hendra Djati Perbowo if your BFWP stop, simply your boiler will water starvation and you

will hope that your low drum level MFT will work so that your boiler tubes will secure, this will

take less than a minute.but if, all your aux stop, simply your unit will trip.



0

awadhUnfollow Follow awadh

awadh jha CFB boiler would continue to provide incremental heat to the furnace even after all

auxiliaries trip. Depending upon the design margin available in the water wall tubes and the

operating pressure at the time of trip, and the condition remaining for one hour, creepphenomenon will occur in the boiler water walls, i.e. the tube diameter will tend to increase,

leading to rise in hoop stress for the same working pressure. In a new boiler, tube failure shall

not be visible immediately. However, on repeated occurences water wall tube failures would be a

frequent phenomenon and life of boiler tube will get reduced drastically.So, the CFB units must have turbo feed pumps for regular operation. The electric driven BFP

should be there for start up only.



1


Jigar Dhabalia It is good to see many comments. Now I have one more question what type ofback-up should be provided to BFW pump - DG set power back-up, diesel engine or steam

turbine driven pump say 450KW pump size.
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12/13



0

Hendra DjatiUnfollow Follow Hendra Djati

Hendra Djati Perbowo you dont need backup power for BFWP, if your BFWP stopped your

boiler MUST trip due to MFT low drum level. If your power fails, repair it, making backup

power is too costly



0

alokUnfollow Follow alok

alok bhattacharya Probability of starvation is always there and to avoid this situation, back up

provision must be there and it must be in ready condition. I will go for DG set and is one timeinvestment. Don't go for steam turbine driven BFP as steam will not be available during such

situation. Since your's is CFB boiler, back up is must.



0
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what happen to boiler tubesdrums when aux power supply fails while boiler running at full load and...

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