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Vergadering 13 september 2017 WGT1 / Classificatie

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Page 1: WGT1 - BIMportal › downloads › 1280 › cluster-bim-wg-1 › 749… · 2 0 1 6 2 0 1 7 1 1 7 R4 24/11 R0 04/11 R2 R3 13/03 R1 11/01 BB/SfB CCS R4 24/04 1x/m UniClass OmniClass

Vergadering 13 september 2017

WGT1 / Classificatie

Page 2: WGT1 - BIMportal › downloads › 1280 › cluster-bim-wg-1 › 749… · 2 0 1 6 2 0 1 7 1 1 7 R4 24/11 R0 04/11 R2 R3 13/03 R1 11/01 BB/SfB CCS R4 24/04 1x/m UniClass OmniClass

Klik om de stijl te bewerkenWG 1

vergadering 13 september 2017 – WG1 Cluster –

0) Inleiding

1) Werking & kalender - WG 1

2) Analyse van ETIM (European Technical Information Model)

3) Ervaring: ETIM & BIM (Wim Tas)

4) Werk in Finland: “BIM based classifications at the standardisation of HVAC model ”

5) Volgende vergadering

Agenda

Page 3: WGT1 - BIMportal › downloads › 1280 › cluster-bim-wg-1 › 749… · 2 0 1 6 2 0 1 7 1 1 7 R4 24/11 R0 04/11 R2 R3 13/03 R1 11/01 BB/SfB CCS R4 24/04 1x/m UniClass OmniClass

Klik om de stijl te bewerkenWG 1

vergadering 13 september 2017 – WG1 Cluster –

2 0 1 6 2 0 1 7

02/02

2 0 1 6 2 0 1 7

2 0 1 6 2 0 1 7

R4

24/11

R0

04/11R2 R3

13/03

R1

11/01

BB/SfB

CCS

R4

24/04

1x/m

UniClass

OmniClass

R5

31/05

Bestekken(Stabu; VMSW )

KICK OFF

R5

R6

26/06

Synthese

Validatie

R6

22/06

CCS

Gezamenlijke

Vergadering

1. Werking en kalender

Page 4: WGT1 - BIMportal › downloads › 1280 › cluster-bim-wg-1 › 749… · 2 0 1 6 2 0 1 7 1 1 7 R4 24/11 R0 04/11 R2 R3 13/03 R1 11/01 BB/SfB CCS R4 24/04 1x/m UniClass OmniClass

Klik om de stijl te bewerkenWG 1

vergadering 13 september 2017 – WG1 Cluster –

02/02

R2 R3

13/03

BB/SfB

CCS

R4

24/04

1x/m

UniClass

OmniClass

R5

31/05

Bestekken(Stabu; VMSW )

R5

R7

13/09

ETIM /

others …

R6

26/06

Synthese

Validatie

R6

22/06

CCS

Gezamenlijke

Vergadering

HVAC

&

Onderhoud

1. Werking en kalender

Page 5: WGT1 - BIMportal › downloads › 1280 › cluster-bim-wg-1 › 749… · 2 0 1 6 2 0 1 7 1 1 7 R4 24/11 R0 04/11 R2 R3 13/03 R1 11/01 BB/SfB CCS R4 24/04 1x/m UniClass OmniClass

Klik om de stijl te bewerkenWG 1

vergadering 13 september 2017 – WG1 Cluster –

Analyse van ETIM

2. Analyse van ETIM

Page 6: WGT1 - BIMportal › downloads › 1280 › cluster-bim-wg-1 › 749… · 2 0 1 6 2 0 1 7 1 1 7 R4 24/11 R0 04/11 R2 R3 13/03 R1 11/01 BB/SfB CCS R4 24/04 1x/m UniClass OmniClass

Klik om de stijl te bewerkenWG 1

vergadering 13 september 2017 – WG1 Cluster –

W E B S I T E S

P L U G I N s

I M P L E M E N T I N S O F T WA R EI D E N T I T Y C A R D

B I M K E Y C H A R A C T E R I S T I C S

U S E

2. Analyse van ETIM

Method of analysis

Page 7: WGT1 - BIMportal › downloads › 1280 › cluster-bim-wg-1 › 749… · 2 0 1 6 2 0 1 7 1 1 7 R4 24/11 R0 04/11 R2 R3 13/03 R1 11/01 BB/SfB CCS R4 24/04 1x/m UniClass OmniClass

Klik om de stijl te bewerkenWG 1

vergadering 13 september 2017 – WG1 Cluster –

GENERAL INFORMATIONS

STRUCTURE OF THE SYSTEM

PRACTICAL USE OF THE SYSTEM

STRUCTURE OF THE CODE

Founding organization(s):

Date of publication + last update:

Countries where the system is being used:

Languages in which the system is available:

References used:

In which sector(s) ? building /infrastructure/ landscape/ …

In which discipline(s) ?

architecture / stability/ HVAC/ maintenance/..

In which phase(s) of the building process ?

Predesign / design/ production / maintenance

Type of system: enumerative / faceted

Number of tables:

Name of the tables + number of level(s) in each table:

Type of code: alphabetical / numerical / alphanumeric

I D E N T I T Y C A R D

2. Analyse van ETIM

Page 8: WGT1 - BIMportal › downloads › 1280 › cluster-bim-wg-1 › 749… · 2 0 1 6 2 0 1 7 1 1 7 R4 24/11 R0 04/11 R2 R3 13/03 R1 11/01 BB/SfB CCS R4 24/04 1x/m UniClass OmniClass

Klik om de stijl te bewerkenWG 1

vergadering 13 september 2017 – WG1 Cluster –

GENERAL INFORMATIONS

ETIM is a products classification (initially from The Netherlands and Germany)

• Basis: BMEcat standard (1999)

(BME = “German Federal Association for Materials Management, Procurement and Logistics”)

Goal: standardize data transfer for products catalogs

• First version (2003) in German, Dutch and English

• Last international version: ETIM version 7.0 (4th September 2017)

Mainly for manufacturers and wholesalers

I D E N T I T Y C A R D

2. Analyse van ETIM

Page 9: WGT1 - BIMportal › downloads › 1280 › cluster-bim-wg-1 › 749… · 2 0 1 6 2 0 1 7 1 1 7 R4 24/11 R0 04/11 R2 R3 13/03 R1 11/01 BB/SfB CCS R4 24/04 1x/m UniClass OmniClass

Klik om de stijl te bewerkenWG 1

vergadering 13 september 2017 – WG1 Cluster –

GENERAL INFORMATIONS

Founding organization(s): ETIM International (non-profit association)

Date of publication + last update: 2003 / 2017 (4th September)

Countries where used: Austria, Belgium, Denmark, Finland, France,

Germany, Italy, Lithuania, Norway, Poland, Russia,

Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, The Netherlands,

United Kingdom, USA/ Canada

Languages in which available: English, Belgian French, Belgian Flemish, Dutch,

Danish, Finnish, French, German, Italian, Norwegian,

Polish, Spanish, Swedish, Swiss French, Swiss Italian

I D E N T I T Y C A R D

2. Analyse van ETIM

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Klik om de stijl te bewerkenWG 1

vergadering 13 september 2017 – WG1 Cluster –

ARTCLASSID

ARTGROUPID

ARTCLASSDESC

ARTCLASSVERSION

ARTCLASSVERSIONDATE

ETIMARTCLASS

STRUCTURE OF THE SYSTEM

A: Alphanumeric

N: Numeric

L: Logic (YES-NO/ TRUE-FALSE)

R: Range

I D E N T I T Y C A R D

2. Analyse van ETIM

Downloaded Excel

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Klik om de stijl te bewerkenWG 1

vergadering 13 september 2017 – WG1 Cluster –

UNITS

VALUES

FEATURES

CLASSES

STRUCTURE OF THE SYSTEM

ETIMGROUP

ARTGROUPID

GROUPDESC

ETIMGROUP

ARTGROUPID

GROUPDESC

ETIMFEATURE

FEATUREID

FEATUREDESC

ETIMFEATURE

FEATUREIDFEATUREDESC

ETIMFEATURE

FEATUREID

FEATUREDESC

ETIMFEATURE

FEATUREID

FEATUREDESC

ETIMFEATURE

FEATUREID

FEATUREDESC

ETIMFEATURE

FEATUREID

FEATUREDESC

ETIMARTCLASSARTCLASSID

ARTGROUPID

ARTCLASSDESC

ARTCLASSVERSION

ARTCLASSVERSIONDATE

ETIMVALUE

VALUEID

VALUEDESC

ETIMVALUE

VALUEID

VALUEDESC

ETIMVALUE

VALUEID

VALUEDESC

ETIMVALUE

VALUEID

VALUEDESC

ETIMVALUE

VALUEID

VALUEDESC

ETIMVALUE

VALUEID

VALUEDESC

ETIMUNIT

UNITOFMEASID

UNITDESC

ETIMUNIT

UNITOFMEASID

UNITDESC

ETIMUNIT

UNITOFMEASID

UNITDESC

ETIMUNIT

UNITOFMEASID

UNITDESC

ETIMUNIT

UNITOFMEASID

UNITDESC

ETIMUNIT

UNITOFMEASID

UNITDESC

ETIMARTCLASS

ARTCLASSID

ARTGROUPID

ARTCLASSDESC

ARTCLASSVERSION

ARTCLASSVERSIONDATE

I D E N T I T Y C A R D

2. Analyse van ETIM

ETIM 7.0

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Klik om de stijl te bewerkenWG 1

vergadering 13 september 2017 – WG1 Cluster –

STRUCTURE OF THE SYSTEM

GROUP

EG000028: Lamp

CLASS

EC002962: UV LampEC000108: Fluorescent Lamp

CLASS

FEATURE

EF005127: Nominal voltage EF000078: Luminous flux EF000042: Socket

FEATURE FEATURE FEATURE

EF000369: Total length

220

VALUE

1500

VALUE

EV000098: E27

VALUE

EV000097: E14

VALUE

UNIT

EU570079: Volt

UNIT

EU570108: Lumen

240

VALUE

No values codes for all numeric features

I D E N T I T Y C A R D

2. Analyse van ETIM

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Klik om de stijl te bewerkenWG 1

vergadering 13 september 2017 – WG1 Cluster –

STRUCTURE OF THE CODE

Type of code : Alphanumeric

EG000043

EC001297 Wall duct for ventilation system

Residential heatingGroup

Class

EF001607 Nominal widthFeature

EU570448 mmUnit

Value / 30

I D E N T I T Y C A R D

2. Analyse van ETIM

Page 14: WGT1 - BIMportal › downloads › 1280 › cluster-bim-wg-1 › 749… · 2 0 1 6 2 0 1 7 1 1 7 R4 24/11 R0 04/11 R2 R3 13/03 R1 11/01 BB/SfB CCS R4 24/04 1x/m UniClass OmniClass

Klik om de stijl te bewerkenWG 1

vergadering 13 september 2017 – WG1 Cluster –

GENERAL INFORMATION

STRUCTURE OF THE SYSTEM

PRACTICAL USE OF THE SYSTEM

STRUCTURE OF THE CODE

Founding organization(s):

Date of publication + last update:

Countries where the system is being used:

Languages in which the system is available:

References used:

In which sector(s) ? building /infrastructure/ landscape/ …

In which discipline(s) ?

architecture / stability/ HVAC/ maintenance/..

In which phase(s) of the building process ?

Predesign / design/ production / maintenance

Type of system: enumerative / faceted

Number of tables:

Name of the tables + number of level(s) in each table:

Type of code: alphabetical / numerical / alphanumeric

I D E N T I T Y C A R D

2. Analyse van ETIM

Page 15: WGT1 - BIMportal › downloads › 1280 › cluster-bim-wg-1 › 749… · 2 0 1 6 2 0 1 7 1 1 7 R4 24/11 R0 04/11 R2 R3 13/03 R1 11/01 BB/SfB CCS R4 24/04 1x/m UniClass OmniClass

Klik om de stijl te bewerkenWG 1

vergadering 13 september 2017 – WG1 Cluster –

ETIM is not really a classification system

ETIM is a databank for generic products

vv * vx xv~ ~~ ~v

I D E N T I T Y C A R D

2. Analyse van ETIM

Page 16: WGT1 - BIMportal › downloads › 1280 › cluster-bim-wg-1 › 749… · 2 0 1 6 2 0 1 7 1 1 7 R4 24/11 R0 04/11 R2 R3 13/03 R1 11/01 BB/SfB CCS R4 24/04 1x/m UniClass OmniClass

Klik om de stijl te bewerkenWG 1

vergadering 13 september 2017 – WG1 Cluster –

Questions?

Page 17: WGT1 - BIMportal › downloads › 1280 › cluster-bim-wg-1 › 749… · 2 0 1 6 2 0 1 7 1 1 7 R4 24/11 R0 04/11 R2 R3 13/03 R1 11/01 BB/SfB CCS R4 24/04 1x/m UniClass OmniClass

Klik om de stijl te bewerkenWG 1

vergadering 13 september 2017 – WG1 Cluster –

W E B S I T E S

P L U G I N s

I M P L E M E N T I N S O F T WA R EI D E N T I T Y C A R D

B I M K E Y C H A R A C T E R I S T I C S

U S E

2. Analyse van ETIM

Page 18: WGT1 - BIMportal › downloads › 1280 › cluster-bim-wg-1 › 749… · 2 0 1 6 2 0 1 7 1 1 7 R4 24/11 R0 04/11 R2 R3 13/03 R1 11/01 BB/SfB CCS R4 24/04 1x/m UniClass OmniClass

Klik om de stijl te bewerkenWG 1

vergadering 13 september 2017 – WG1 Cluster –

K E Y C H A R A C T E R I S T I C S f o r B I M

+v ~ ~~ v v x v

2. Analyse van ETIM

No definition

Page 19: WGT1 - BIMportal › downloads › 1280 › cluster-bim-wg-1 › 749… · 2 0 1 6 2 0 1 7 1 1 7 R4 24/11 R0 04/11 R2 R3 13/03 R1 11/01 BB/SfB CCS R4 24/04 1x/m UniClass OmniClass

Klik om de stijl te bewerkenWG 1

vergadering 13 september 2017 – WG1 Cluster –

K E Y C H A R A C T E R I S T I C S f o r B I M

+v ~ ~~ v v x v

2. Analyse van ETIM

EG000043

EC001297

EF001607

EU570448

EV000128

Page 20: WGT1 - BIMportal › downloads › 1280 › cluster-bim-wg-1 › 749… · 2 0 1 6 2 0 1 7 1 1 7 R4 24/11 R0 04/11 R2 R3 13/03 R1 11/01 BB/SfB CCS R4 24/04 1x/m UniClass OmniClass

Klik om de stijl te bewerkenWG 1

vergadering 13 september 2017 – WG1 Cluster –

K E Y C H A R A C T E R I S T I C S f o r B I M

+v ~ ~~ v

Yes, but : « Possible to communicate additional country-specific

elements that are not in the core ETIM model »

v x v

2. Analyse van ETIM

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Klik om de stijl te bewerkenWG 1

vergadering 13 september 2017 – WG1 Cluster –

K E Y C H A R A C T E R I S T I C S f o r B I M

+v ~ ~~ v v x v

2. Analyse van ETIM

Page 22: WGT1 - BIMportal › downloads › 1280 › cluster-bim-wg-1 › 749… · 2 0 1 6 2 0 1 7 1 1 7 R4 24/11 R0 04/11 R2 R3 13/03 R1 11/01 BB/SfB CCS R4 24/04 1x/m UniClass OmniClass

Klik om de stijl te bewerkenWG 1

vergadering 13 september 2017 – WG1 Cluster –

W E B S I T E S

P L U G I N s

I M P L E M E N T I N S O F T WA R EI D E N T I T Y C A R D

B I M K E Y C H A R A C T E R I S T I C S

U S E

2. Analyse van ETIM

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Klik om de stijl te bewerkenWG 1

vergadering 13 september 2017 – WG1 Cluster –

ex: house + garage + garden

U S E : H o w t o c l a s s i f y f o r … .

Complexes(project in overall terms)

Entities(part of complexes)

ex: house ex: the walls

Elements(part of entities)

Systems(part of elements)

ex: 1 layer

of the walls

Products(part of systems)

ex: 1 brick

2. Analyse van ETIM

Page 24: WGT1 - BIMportal › downloads › 1280 › cluster-bim-wg-1 › 749… · 2 0 1 6 2 0 1 7 1 1 7 R4 24/11 R0 04/11 R2 R3 13/03 R1 11/01 BB/SfB CCS R4 24/04 1x/m UniClass OmniClass

Klik om de stijl te bewerkenWG 1

vergadering 13 september 2017 – WG1 Cluster –

v

x

x

x

v

x

v

v

x

v

v

v v

v

v

v

v

v

v

v v v

x x x x v x

OmniClass

UniClass2015

CCS

BB/SfB (Plus)

CCTB

VMSW

~

x x x x v x

Sometimes need

BB/SfB PlusSometimes need

BB/SfB Plus

Sometimes need

BB/SfB Plus

Need to use titles

v*

ETIM vx x x x x

2. Analyse van ETIM

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Klik om de stijl te bewerkenWG 1

vergadering 13 september 2017 – WG1 Cluster –

USE classification in a case studyAir conditioning system

=

==

== = =

=

=

=

=

==

=

=

=

Duct

ETIM

EC001292+ features, values, units, …EF001438: length

EF000551: diameterEU570448: mm

EF000040: height

EF001438: length

EF000551: diameter…

EU570448: mm

2. Analyse van ETIM

Page 26: WGT1 - BIMportal › downloads › 1280 › cluster-bim-wg-1 › 749… · 2 0 1 6 2 0 1 7 1 1 7 R4 24/11 R0 04/11 R2 R3 13/03 R1 11/01 BB/SfB CCS R4 24/04 1x/m UniClass OmniClass

Klik om de stijl te bewerkenWG 1

vergadering 13 september 2017 – WG1 Cluster –

USE classification in a case studyAir conditioning system

=

==

== = =

=

=

=

=

==

=

=

=

ETIM

EC001851+ features, values, units, …EF000227: rated current

EF000187: voltage type

EV000460: AC…

EF001438: length

EF000551: diameter

EU570448: mm…

Duct Electric motor

ETIM

EC001292

EF000228: rated voltage

EF000227: rated current

EF000187: voltage type…

EU570079: V

EU570459: A

/ EV000460: AC

EV000509 AC/DCEV000461 DC

2. Analyse van ETIM

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Klik om de stijl te bewerkenWG 1

vergadering 13 september 2017 – WG1 Cluster –

=

==

== = =

=

=

=

=

==

=

=

=

(F47)

Afmetingen, maatveranderingen(Tabel 4)

USE classification in a case studyAir conditioning system

Duct

BB/SfB

I buizen, kanalen (Tabel 2)

Other infos

2. Analyse van ETIM

Page 28: WGT1 - BIMportal › downloads › 1280 › cluster-bim-wg-1 › 749… · 2 0 1 6 2 0 1 7 1 1 7 R4 24/11 R0 04/11 R2 R3 13/03 R1 11/01 BB/SfB CCS R4 24/04 1x/m UniClass OmniClass

Klik om de stijl te bewerkenWG 1

vergadering 13 september 2017 – WG1 Cluster –

USE classification in a case studyAir conditioning system

=

==

== = =

=

=

=

=

==

=

=

=

BB/SfB

X complexe vormen Other infos(Q1): Elektriciteitsbronnen,

elektriciteitstypes

Duct Electric motor

(F47)Afmetingen, maatveranderingen

(F47.1) and (F47.2) voor lengte en

diameter?

BB/SfB

I buizen, kanalen

2. Analyse van ETIM

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Klik om de stijl te bewerkenWG 1

vergadering 13 september 2017 – WG1 Cluster –

=

==

== = =

=

=

=

=

==

=

=

=

WPB (AAQT: 300; AAQH:50; …)

length diameter

USE classification in a case studyAir conditioning system

Duct

CCS

WPB02

AAQQ Nominal height – duct segment

AAQH Nominal diameter – pipe segment

AAQT Length – duct segment

2. Analyse van ETIM

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Klik om de stijl te bewerkenWG 1

vergadering 13 september 2017 – WG1 Cluster –

USE classification in a case studyAir conditioning system

=

==

== = =

=

=

=

=

==

=

=

=

CCS

MAA01

MAA ( … )

IFC properties

No CCS codes for rated current, voltage type, …

Duct Electric motor

WPB (AAQT: 300; AAQH:50; …)

length diameter

CCS

WPB02

2. Analyse van ETIM

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vergadering 13 september 2017 – WG1 Cluster –

Questions?

Page 32: WGT1 - BIMportal › downloads › 1280 › cluster-bim-wg-1 › 749… · 2 0 1 6 2 0 1 7 1 1 7 R4 24/11 R0 04/11 R2 R3 13/03 R1 11/01 BB/SfB CCS R4 24/04 1x/m UniClass OmniClass

Klik om de stijl te bewerkenWG 1

vergadering 13 september 2017 – WG1 Cluster –

W E B S I T E S

P L U G I N s

I M P L E M E N T I N S O F T WA R EI D E N T I T Y C A R D

B I M K E Y C H A R A C T E R I S T I C S

U S E

2. Analyse van ETIM

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Klik om de stijl te bewerkenWG 1

vergadering 13 september 2017 – WG1 Cluster –

WEBSITES to inform about classification

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2nL5r76x7g

Explanations of the functionalities of the CMT website

https://prod.etim-international.com/?languagecode=EN

To browse groups, classes, features, …

http://etim-mapper.eu/

software supporting the conversion of company’s

product datas to the format compatible with ETIM

standard

2. Analyse van ETIM

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vergadering 13 september 2017 – WG1 Cluster –

3. Ervaring: ETIM & BIM

Presentatie van Wim TAS

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Presentatie: Werk in Finland

4. “ BIM based classifications at the standardisation of HVAC model ”

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4. “ BIM based classifications at the standardisation of HVAC model ”

This Thesis (from 2017) was part of the bigger project of the buildingSMART Finland

called “BIM Standardising”.

The thesis was (parts 2 and 3) limited to HVAC model.

Other persons are standardising architectural and structural models in buildingSMART

Finland.

The aim of the project is to define propertysets and propertynames to use in Finland with

BIM (to attach properties to objects).

Context

BIM based classifications at the standardisation of HVAC model

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3 parts:

• Chapters 2-4: Literature research about the classifications ETIM, Talo 2000, CCS, CoClass and UniClass2015

• Chapter 5: Analysis of classifications. The purpose was to find the best classifications that can be used in

standardising the information content of HVAC model in Finland. Classifications has been compared with 6 different

criteria taking account by different weight factors.

Result: CCS and CoClass are best classifications for Finland.

• Chapter 6: HVAC model standardisation based on the analysis. CCS and CoClass were used.

Content

4. “ BIM based classifications at the standardisation of HVAC model ”

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General

Location

Installation

Default level7 attribute groups:

General

Location

Installation

Product

Technical

Physical

Maintenance

Standardisation of information – Default levelHVAC, electrical, building automation

4. “ BIM based classifications at the standardisation of HVAC model ”

ProductsBased on

CCS and

CoClass

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vergadering 13 september 2017 – WG1 Cluster –

Product

Technical

Default level7 attribute groups:

General

Location

Installation

Product

Technical

Physical

Maintenance

Standardisation of information – Default level

4. “ BIM based classifications at the standardisation of HVAC model ”

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vergadering 13 september 2017 – WG1 Cluster –

Technical

Physical

Default level7 attribute groups:

General

Location

Installation

Product

Technical

Physical

Maintenance

Standardisation of information – Default level

4. “ BIM based classifications at the standardisation of HVAC model ”

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vergadering 13 september 2017 – WG1 Cluster –

Maintenance

Physical

Default level7 attribute groups:

General

Location

Installation

Product

Technical

Physical

Maintenance

Standardisation of information – Default level

4. “ BIM based classifications at the standardisation of HVAC model ”

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Standardisation of information – Level 2

Level 27 attribute groups:

General

Location

Installation

Product

Technical

Physical

Maintenance

General

Location

Installation

More information

required

4. “ BIM based classifications at the standardisation of HVAC model ”

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Ex: Supply air valve

Examples

Default level 7 attribute groups

Attributes in the

group ”General”

Values of attributes

Group “General”

Attribute groups:

General

Location

Installation

Product

Technical

Physical

Maintenance

Attributes for air supply valve at default level

Attribute names

4. “ BIM based classifications at the standardisation of HVAC model ”

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SE: CoClass

FI: // CCS and CoClass

DK: CCS

The currently used Talo 2000 nomenclature does not support modern data-based design

CCS and CoClass are the best of the compared nomenclatures to be applied in Finland

4. “ BIM based classifications at the standardisation of HVAC model ”

Conclusion (from author)

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vergadering 13 september 2017 – WG1 Cluster –

5. Volgende vergadering

De volgende vergadering zal doorgaan op 24 oktober van

14.00 uur tot 16.30 uur in Lozenberg24/10