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Column1 Column2 Column3SyedaJavaid 2015-03-

18T20:52:10Waiting for #ELTchat !!!My first time to be part of it ☺️

MarekKiczkowiak

2015-03-18T20:52:37

RT @Marisa_C: What do you think about our topic? Join the #ELTchat discussion in 5 minutes http://t.co/iB6D8xlUq9

angelos_bollas

2015-03-18T20:53:10

Undortunately, I won't be able to participate in today's #ELTchat. Will catch up later! Enjoy the chat people!

vickyloras 2015-03-18T20:54:22

RT @michaelegriffin: Are you ready for untold fame and riches? If so read, "So you wanna be a TEFL blogger?" by @timhampson http://t.co/cO…

HadaLitim 2015-03-18T20:55:33


racheldaw18 2015-03-18T20:55:56

@SyedaJavaid Hi Syeda! I'm a newbie too & will probably mainly be listening in today :) But it's such a great community, welcome! #ELTchat

HadaLitim 2015-03-18T20:56:21

RT @racheldaw18: @SyedaJavaid Hi Syeda! I'm a newbie too & will probably mainly be listening in today :) But it's such a great community, w…

racheldaw18 2015-03-18T20:56:42

RT @michaelegriffin: Are you ready for untold fame and riches? If so read, "So you wanna be a TEFL blogger?" by @timhampson http://t.co/cO…

HadaLitim 2015-03-18T20:56:44

@racheldaw18 @SyedaJavaid Hola Rachel! Chat in a bit #eltchat

ivangysel 2015-03-18T20:57:09


Marisa_C 2015-03-18T20:57:16

@SyedaJavaid Hello and welcome - it's good to have new faces on #ELTchat - we do welcome new teachers as @racheldaw18 says :-)

SyedaJavaid 2015-03-18T20:57:26

@SyedaJavaid thank you ☺A️m just using the simple twitter app on my iphone.What is tweetdeck ? #ELTchat

SyedaJavaid 2015-03-18T20:58:15

@racheldaw18 thank you #ELTchat

Marisa_C 2015-03-18T20:59:12

@SyedaJavaid it's a chrome extension in ur browser makes it possible to see more #ELTchat

SyedaJavaid 2015-03-18T20:59:13

@Marisa_C @racheldaw18 thank you :)Will try to stay regular and contribute as much i can ☺#️ELTchat

racheldaw18 2015-03-18T20:59:21

@SyedaJavaid Tweetdeck is a way of viewing hashtagged conversations like #ELTchat in different 'channels' - works very well! #ELTchat

racheldaw18 2015-03-18T21:00:03

@Marisa_C I just use application in a window; I didn't realise there was an extension for Tweetdeck! #somethingneweveryday #eltchat

SueAnnan 2015-03-18T21:01:10

evening all #ELTchat

ELTchat 2015-03- Hello everyone and welcome to #ELTchat - this evening our

http://t.co/iB6D8xlUq9


http://t.co/cO%E2%80%A6


http://t.co/cO%E2%80%A6

18T21:01:21 question is simple but may be the answer more complex than we thought #ELTchat

HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:01:44

@naomishema @rosemerebard Starting our #ELTchat Naomi, joining us at all?

HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:01:47

RT @ELTchat: Hello everyone and welcome to #ELTchat - this evening our question is simple but may be the answer more complex than we though…

ELTchat 2015-03-18T21:01:51

Should leading ELT organisations support NNESTs and stop discrimination against them #ELTchat

HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:02:03

@SueAnnan Evening Sue! #ELTchat

HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:02:39

RT @ELTchat: Should leading ELT organisations support NNESTs and stop discrimination against them #ELTchat @hughdellar @MarekKiczkowiak

Marisa_C 2015-03-18T21:02:53

@racheldaw18 yes a tweetdeck extension - allows u to have many different columns for different hashtags faves etc #ELTchat

SueAnnan 2015-03-18T21:04:08

Most of my PLN are NNests.Many of them are better qualified than me. There shouldnt be an issue #ELTchat

HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:04:50

@SueAnnan but there is #ELTchat

HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:05:14

RT @MarekKiczkowiak: @hughdellar @HadaLitim @ELTchat I wish it was, but unfortunately most TAs don't support NNESTs' rights #ELTchat

Marisa_C 2015-03-18T21:05:17

@pressfuturist @laIoli Any comments you might want to send to #ELTchat from that webinar?

racheldaw18 2015-03-18T21:05:40

It's interesting when you look for ELT jobs, how sometimes NESTs are specified...but this does seem to have regional tendencies... #ELTchat

Marisa_C 2015-03-18T21:05:47

I am a NNEST #ELTchat

HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:05:54

@hughdellar @ELTchat @MarekKiczkowiak The chat starts now, please follow us and take part by using the #eltchat hashtag

HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:06:29

@hughdellar @ELTchat @MarekKiczkowiak Of course it's a question. Probably better felt by nNESTs #ELTchat

Marisa_C 2015-03-18T21:06:29

I would probably not be able to get jobs available to my NEST fresh CELTA graduates #ELTchat

TeresaBestwick

2015-03-18T21:07:02

#eltchat Problem can come from clients who request NESTs...I agree with @SueAnnan, native doesn't always mean better

HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:07:10

RT @hughdellar @MarekKiczkowiak @HadaLitim #ELTchat A continuing disgrace upon the profession, it really is. Good teachers are good teachers

Marisa_C 2015-03- @SueAnnan yea... and i guess despite my NNEST status

18T21:07:17 #ELTchatSueAnnan 2015-03-

18T21:07:22I find I am training more and more NNESTs these days- but they seem to find work easily enough in Europe #ELTchat

HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:07:48

@SueAnnan But is there a glass ceiling #ELTchat

languageeteach

2015-03-18T21:08:09

@racheldaw18 Yes. In my context - ESOL in the UK - I work with more NNESTs than NESTs! #ELTchat

HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:08:19

RT @hughdellar #ELTchat @MarekKiczkowiak I was being rhetorical.Rather than trying to deny the reality of NNSTs experience of discrimination

SueAnnan 2015-03-18T21:08:35

@HadaLitim That I don't know TBH. We are still fighting sexism at this end #ELTchat

Shaunwilden 2015-03-18T21:08:41

evening all #eltchat

Marisa_C 2015-03-18T21:08:49

Like @SueAnnan says my trainee NNESTs find loads of jobs in europe mainly summer in the UK #eltchat more difficult all-year round #ELTchat

HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:08:50

@hughdellar @ELTchat @MarekKiczkowiak I figured. Please use #ELTchat rather than @ELTchat

pressfuturist 2015-03-18T21:08:51

@Marisa_C If @laIoli is online, they’d be better coming from her - her marvellous talk prompted a heartfelt response from teachers. #eltchat

MarekKiczkowiak

2015-03-18T21:09:19

@hughdellar @HadaLitim @ELTchat perhaps the question should be not IF but HOW the TAs should get involved #eltchat


@Marisa_C But if @laloli’s offline, I’ll pop back and share some of the key points. #eltchat

Marisa_C 2015-03-18T21:09:41

@pressfuturist @laIoli hmm was not aware - would have invited her #ELTchat

HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:09:56

@SueAnnan True! #ELTchat

languageeteach

2015-03-18T21:10:04

@HadaLitim @hughdellar @MarekKiczkowiak Definitely. It is a shame that this myth that only NESTs can teach English effectively #ELTchat

Marisa_C 2015-03-18T21:10:26

RT @MarekKiczkowiak: @hughdellar @HadaLitim @ELTchat perhaps the question should be not IF but HOW the TAs should get involved #eltchat

SueAnnan 2015-03-18T21:11:07

I've met many extremely able NNESTs who have worked at our school. Sometinmes the problem is the students #ELTchat

HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:11:26

@languageeteach @hughdellar @MarekKiczkowiak Is it abt teaching though? Some untrained natives speakers are given pref over nNESTs #ELTchat

Marisa_C 2015-03-18T21:11:26

I checked the TESOL Intnl Association website earlier - there is nothing related to this topic - searched #ELTchat

HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:11:36

RT @Marisa_C: RT @MarekKiczkowiak: @hughdellar @HadaLitim @ELTchat perhaps the question should be not IF but HOW the TAs should get involve…

racheldaw18 2015-03-18T21:11:42

That sounds great @pressfuturist - ever the master of conciseness/concision (never know the difference, and I'm a NEST!) #eltchat

HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:12:23

@SueAnnan WHo are the main stake holders when it comes to recruiting decisions? #ELTchat

racheldaw18 2015-03-18T21:12:47

In my admittedly minimal experience of teaching Eng online, NESTs seem to get far more requests from learners - unjustly. #eltchat

HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:12:51

RT @Marisa_C: I checked the TESOL Intnl Association website earlier - there is nothing related to this topic - searched #ELTchat

SueAnnan 2015-03-18T21:13:22

@HadaLitim I work for a private Lang school so...... #ELTchat. We really don't have a problem chez nous #ELTchat

HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:13:38

RT @SueAnnan: @HadaLitim I work for a private Lang school so...... #ELTchat. We really don't have a problem chez nous #ELTchat

MarekKiczkowiak

2015-03-18T21:13:42

@HadaLitim @languageeteach @hughdellar certainly it's often not about choosing the best teacher #eltchat

TeresaBestwick

2015-03-18T21:13:48

@HadaLitim I think you're right. Certainly in the state school I work in there's a lot of prestige and perception related to NESTs #eltchat


One thing that came up in chat on this subject over the weekend was how little grammatical knowledge many NESTs have at first. #eltchat

languageeteach

2015-03-18T21:13:59

@HadaLitim @hughdellar @MarekKiczkowiak Is it also about students' perceptions? Many want native speakers qualified or not #ELTchat

HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:14:10

@SueAnnan The BC where I work recruits strictly on merit and nNESTs are actually much greater in number #ELTchat

SueAnnan 2015-03-18T21:14:28

@pressfuturist That is a question of age too. #ELTchat

HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:14:35

@languageeteach @hughdellar @MarekKiczkowiak To sound like them no doubt?! #ELTchat

HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:14:53

RT @TeresaBestwick: @HadaLitim I think you're right. Certainly in the state school I work in there's a lot of prestige and perception relat…

TESOLacademic

2015-03-18T21:15:14

Europe probably more open to NNSTs than other places because of EU discrimination legislation? #ELTchat

HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:15:17

RT @pressfuturist: One thing that came up in chat on this subject over the weekend was how little grammatical knowledge many NESTs have at …


#ELTchat For me, as for many NESTs, most of my grasp of grammar came originally from learning another language - in

my case Latin!Marisa_C 2015-03-

18T21:15:23I think tho that just as many NESTs should not be teachers for lack of qualifications ... there is a flispside to this for NNESTs #ELTchat

MarekKiczkowiak

2015-03-18T21:15:30

@HadaLitim @languageeteach @hughdellar do they? How many students? Have you got any evidence? #eltchat

AchilleasK 2015-03-18T21:15:54

RT @TESOLacademic: Europe probably more open to NNSTs than other places because of EU discrimination legislation? #ELTchat

SueAnnan 2015-03-18T21:15:54

is it worse in the countries where the Nests want to work, rather than UK ? #ELTchat

Marisa_C 2015-03-18T21:16:00

many NNEST who are great re pedagogy are complacent re language skills and poor language models #eltchat


@SueAnnan #eltchat Reflecting changing ways of learning English in UK classrooms through the generations?

SyedaJavaid 2015-03-18T21:16:37

yes, definitely. Teaching is an art & skill and can perfectly executed by anyone.NNST can relate better with the students. #ELTchat

HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:16:39

@MarekKiczkowiak @languageeteach @hughdellar Me? #eltchat

Marisa_C 2015-03-18T21:16:49

RT @TESOLacademic: Europe probably more open to NNSTs than other places because of EU discrimination legislation? #ELTchat > Illegal

SueAnnan 2015-03-18T21:16:53

@pressfuturist absolutely #ELTchat

TeresaBestwick

2015-03-18T21:17:18

@pressfuturist Absolutely! NNESTs often have a better grasp of grammar especially metalanguage #eltchat

HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:17:27

I'm a French national, speak French fluently but can't teach it! #ELTchat

Marisa_C 2015-03-18T21:17:30

Illegal to discriminate in the EU - @helenstrong wrote about this earlier #eltchat

languageeteach

2015-03-18T21:17:36

@HadaLitim @hughdellar @MarekKiczkowiak Yes. Even if they end up saying 'Wag Wan!" for example #ELTchat

HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:17:37

RT @Marisa_C: Illegal to discriminate in the EU - @helenstrong wrote about this earlier #eltchat

racheldaw18 2015-03-18T21:17:49

I will happily hold my hands up to @pressfuturist 's pt re. NESTs having worse grammar knowledge! Altho I am learning :) #eltchat

SueAnnan 2015-03-18T21:17:50

@TeresaBestwick Yes, but they often have outmoded teaching methods #ELTchat

HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:17:53

@languageeteach @hughdellar @MarekKiczkowiak Lol! #ELTchat

HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:18:41

@SueAnnan @TeresaBestwick Really? Surely not if they're properly trained? #ELTchat

Marisa_C 2015-03- NESTs have poor formal awareness of morphology and rules

18T21:18:52 NNESTs often poor functional and sociolinguistic awareness #ELTchat

MarekKiczkowiak

2015-03-18T21:19:27

@HadaLitim @languageeteach @hughdellar any reasonable arguments why teaching associations should NOT support NNESTs? #eltchat

HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:19:30

@Marisa_C So it sounds obvious that they should learn from each other! #ELTchat

SueAnnan 2015-03-18T21:19:30

@HadaLitim oh yes. I often have EU teachers on my course who come to try out new ideas because they are stuck in the past #ELTchat

HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:19:38

RT @MarekKiczkowiak: @HadaLitim @languageeteach @hughdellar any reasonable arguments why teaching associations should NOT support NNESTs? #…

Marisa_C 2015-03-18T21:19:42

Both groups have strengths and weaknesses and can learn off one anothe #ELTchat

ivangysel 2015-03-18T21:19:44

It might be a matter of perception - to a lot of learners/parents, having an accent means you do not master the language fully #ELTchat

TESOLacademic

2015-03-18T21:19:45

But important to note discrimination in #elt not restricted to NNSTs in many parts. Also: ethnicity; sexuality; gender etc #eltchat

languageeteach

2015-03-18T21:20:02

@MarekKiczkowiak @HadaLitim @hughdellar No evidence alas but remember a group of Ss who complained about a British Chinese teacher #ELTchat


#eltchat (Confession: I taught in Japan for three years w/out teaching qualifications or language-teaching experience. Hired because NEST.)

AchilleasK 2015-03-18T21:20:18

RT @TESOLacademic: But important to note discrimination in #elt not restricted to NNSTs in many parts. Also: ethnicity; sexuality; gender …

Marisa_C 2015-03-18T21:20:24

@TESOLacademic very true Huw - limited to say just NNEST vs NEST #ELTchat

TeresaBestwick

2015-03-18T21:20:26

@SueAnnan @HadaLitim Definitely a big difference between TESOL-trained and mainstream, though methodology of latter improving #eltchat

HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:20:29

@SueAnnan Interesting. In the past or in the exisiting methods of their country? #ELTchat

Marisa_C 2015-03-18T21:20:43

@HadaLitim absolutely #ELTchat

SyedaJavaid 2015-03-18T21:20:49

@Marisa_C the NNESTs have better understanding of the grammar and can easily explain to the SLL #ELTchat

SueAnnan 2015-03-18T21:21:01

@HadaLitim often they way they were taught #ELTchat

HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:21:13

@ivangysel Yes, true, and often they confuse accent and pronunciation #ELTchat

languageeteach

2015-03-18T21:21:24

@MarekKiczkowiak @HadaLitim @hughdellar ...because they thought he wasn't 'British' enough.This was a few yrs though #ELTchat

Marisa_C 2015-03-18T21:21:26

@SyedaJavaid the problem is the 'explaining' bit very often #ELTchat


@ivangysel Yes; many teachers in our chat said that their accents made them felt less confident in their teaching. #eltchat

HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:21:40

@pressfuturist OUch! #ELTchat

HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:21:56

RT @TESOLacademic: But important to note discrimination in #elt not restricted to NNSTs in many parts. Also: ethnicity; sexuality; gender …

HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:22:25

@TESOLacademic So true, there is a big ethnicity issue here #eltchat

TESOLacademic

2015-03-18T21:22:29

@ivangysel: Yes discrimination is often generated by parents & learners. #ELTchat


#ELTchat I consequently began teaching as a very poor teacher. But I like to think that I worked hard & improved, like many NESTs & NNESTs.

SueAnnan 2015-03-18T21:22:35

One of our fulltime teachers is Italian- with a strong accent. We tease him, but he's a good teacher and sts love him #ELTchat

Marisa_C 2015-03-18T21:22:58

@pressfuturist @ivangysel I get this a lot from trainee NNESTs but once done with training they dont work on accent #ELTchat

TeresaBestwick

2015-03-18T21:23:02

RT @TESOLacademic: @ivangysel: Yes discrimination is often generated by parents & learners. #ELTchat

SyedaJavaid 2015-03-18T21:23:06

@TESOLacademic I completely agree, sometimes "native" has a different connotation not only L1 #ELTchat

languageeteach

2015-03-18T21:23:08

@TESOLacademic Agreed #eltchat

HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:23:23

RT @pressfuturist: @ivangysel Yes; many teachers in our chat said that their accents made them felt less confident in their teaching. #eltc…

HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:23:32

RT @Marisa_C: @pressfuturist @ivangysel I get this a lot from trainee NNESTs but once done with training they dont work on accent #ELTchat


#ELTchat Despite that, it still remains a fact that I'd never have got that chance to teach and so improve if I'd not been a NEST.

Marisa_C 2015-03-18T21:24:19

Few schools do parent training #eltchat - of course many indifferent but where possible maybe a demo class would help

SueAnnan 2015-03-18T21:24:42

I know of a NEST who got a job in CHina, despite being turned down for a CELTA because his LA wasn't up to it

#ELTchatTeresaBestwick

2015-03-18T21:24:45

Even between NESTs accents differ. My northern boss today joked I'd written the wrong transcription for laugh (with long a:) #eltchat

SyedaJavaid 2015-03-18T21:24:46

@Marisa_C but the ss can relate to the teacher and adapt the same way of learning. It can produce better results #ELTchat

MarekKiczkowiak

2015-03-18T21:24:53

Shouldn't we be finally speaking about good teachers rather than focusing on the teacher's passport? #eltchat

Marisa_C 2015-03-18T21:24:58

@pressfuturist we all have some blessings to count about how we got to where we are :-) #eltchat


One teacher in our chat said they'd been told to pretend they were a native speaker by their institution! #ELTchat

HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:25:12

RT @MarekKiczkowiak: Shouldn't we be finally speaking about good teachers rather than focusing on the teacher's passport? #eltchat

HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:25:21

RT @Marisa_C: @pressfuturist we all have some blessings to count about how we got to where we are :-) #eltchat

languageeteach

2015-03-18T21:25:38

Some, e.g. Jenkins, propose diff terminology, e.g expert language teacher, bilingual user of English. Semantics or viable option? #ELTchat

TeresaBestwick

2015-03-18T21:25:45


Marisa_C 2015-03-18T21:25:49

Propose a topic for the 25th of March: Propose a topic for the 25th of March. Right here – below the ... http://t.co/KomeyPR2C6 #eltchat

HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:25:56

@Marisa_C @pressfuturist But hard work too!!! Years of studying and hard earned cash to pay for it all #eltchat

Marisa_C 2015-03-18T21:26:13

@pressfuturist Oh I was asked to say that on my first teacher training job!!! #ELTchat - I do related to that

SyedaJavaid 2015-03-18T21:26:28

On the other hand, sometimes NNESTs might not be best models when it comes to pronunciation #ELTchat


@languageeteach I guess there's a risk that these terms become viewed as "euphemisms" for NNEST? Worth trying, though, I think. #eltchat

HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:27:16

@languageeteach I thought this was meant to be implemented a couple of yrs ago but the stigma remains #ELTchat

Marisa_C 2015-03-18T21:27:42

I believe that the BC and their very pro-British attitude of the past has a lot to do with much of what is happening now #ELTchat

HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:27:45

@Marisa_C @pressfuturist So sad! #ELTchat

MarekKiczko 2015-03- @SyedaJavaid and some MESTs mightn't have the lg

http://t.co/KomeyPR2C6

wiak 18T21:27:58 awareness to teach. Such stereotyping makes no sense #eltchat

SyedaJavaid 2015-03-18T21:27:59

@pressfuturist in some parts of the world, anyone from the west, is termed a native English speaker #ELTchat

SueAnnan 2015-03-18T21:28:04

RT @Marisa_C: I believe that the BC and their very pro-British attitude of the past has a lot to do with much of what is happening now #ELT…

ivangysel 2015-03-18T21:28:20

@pressfuturist It's not just the teachers, I think, many learners don't like speaking English because of their accent. #ELTchat

Marisa_C 2015-03-18T21:28:28

This may shock some ppl but it''s true #ELTchat they may display a different attitude today and even hire NNESTs but all this v new

languageeteach

2015-03-18T21:28:48

@pressfuturist Good point. I wrote my MA dissertation on this. The NNESTs hated most of the terms except 'expert user' #ELTchat

HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:28:55

@TESOLacademic @ivangysel In some countries it's at immigration level. No visas are issued to other than certain passport holders #ELTchat

MarekKiczkowiak

2015-03-18T21:29:21

@Marisa_C couldn't agree more #eltchat

SueAnnan 2015-03-18T21:29:21

@HadaLitim @TESOLacademic @ivangysel Yes. I've seen this. #ELTchat

languageeteach

2015-03-18T21:29:21

@racheldaw18 She is a forthright lady! #ELTchat

SyedaJavaid 2015-03-18T21:29:26

@MarekKiczkowiak i agree, the institution should see if the teacher is competent and qualified, L1 should not be a criteria #ELTchat


@SyedaJavaid Interesting! #ELTchat

languageeteach

2015-03-18T21:30:37

@HadaLitim How was it going to be implemented do you know? #ELTchat

HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:30:39

RT @languageeteach: @pressfuturist Good point. I wrote my MA dissertation on this. The NNESTs hated most of the terms except 'expert user' …

Marisa_C 2015-03-18T21:30:48

I have produced HUNDREDS of great NNESTs - the local BC has only hire 4 in the last 25 yrs #ELTchat

Nafooh1988 2015-03-18T21:31:14

#ELTchat As a NNS I believe that no one can be the best as a teacher who has been through the same journey

SueAnnan 2015-03-18T21:31:16

RT @Marisa_C: I have produced HUNDREDS of great NNESTs - the local BC has only hire 4 in the last 25 yrs #ELTchat


@languageeteach Yes, finding terms that work for everyone will be difficult - and who defines who's an "expert"? #ELTchat

SyedaJavaid 2015-03- @Marisa_C but now BC has a different criteria for native

18T21:31:22 speaker, they look for native like proficiency not L1 #ELTchatMarekKiczkowiak

2015-03-18T21:31:23

@Marisa_C wouldn't this be an argument why the BC for one should do more to promote equity in ELT? #eltchat

Marisa_C 2015-03-18T21:31:30

And only after pressure from me #ELTCHAT - OK will stop off chest

HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:31:30

@languageeteach Not sure but I was having this discussion at work and was told in recruitment, the term NEST would appear #ELTchat

Marisa_C 2015-03-18T21:32:25

@MarekKiczkowiak fully agree #eltchat it's their role to promote quality in teaching and some of it comes from great NNESTs

languageeteach

2015-03-18T21:32:26

@pressfuturist Yes. A Czech teacher I know managed to get a job in Vietnam by stressing her bilingualism. #eltchat

racheldaw18 2015-03-18T21:32:32

@SyedaJavaid @Marisa_C That sounds like a positive step forwards for the BC at least... #ELTchat

ivangysel 2015-03-18T21:32:48

@HadaLitim @TESOLacademic Yes, I've noticed this sort of discrimination as well #ELTchat

SyedaJavaid 2015-03-18T21:33:03

@Nafooh1988 its more comforting for the students as well #ELTchat

Marisa_C 2015-03-18T21:33:12

@LaraCvanti I hear it isn't in other locations - may be we have mean managers in BC in Greece #ELTchat

HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:33:23

@Marisa_C Probably, Today thy tend to recruit teachers strictly on merit However don't ask me abt managemnt staff. Th ratio differs #eltchat

Marisa_C 2015-03-18T21:33:58

@HadaLitim the cushy jobs go to the old boys only darling #ELTchat

SyedaJavaid 2015-03-18T21:34:02

@racheldaw18 @Marisa_C only if all the others follow it too.Specially language schools #ELTchat

HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:34:18

RT @Marisa_C: @HadaLitim the cushy jobs go to the old boys only darling #ELTchat

TeresaBestwick

2015-03-18T21:34:45

@languageeteach I agree that it's difficult to think of terminology - NS may be expert at pron, but nowhere near expert at grammar! #eltchat

languageeteach

2015-03-18T21:34:48

@Nafooh1988 I know good & bad 'native' and 'non-native' Ts. It's down to personality, empathy, skills etc. Look beyond the label. #ELTchat

SueAnnan 2015-03-18T21:35:03

RT @languageeteach: @Nafooh1988 I know good & bad 'native' and 'non-native' Ts. It's down to personality, empathy, skills etc. Look beyond …

HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:35:11

@Marisa_C There's definitely a club there - one I probably will never get invited to #eltchat

TeresaBestwick

2015-03-18T21:35:22

RT @languageeteach: @Nafooh1988 I know good & bad 'native' and 'non-native' Ts. It's down to personality, empathy, skills etc. Look beyond …

HadaLitim 2015-03- RT @languageeteach: @Nafooh1988 I know good &

18T21:35:26 bad 'native' and 'non-native' Ts. It's down to personality, empathy, skills etc. Look beyond …

Marisa_C 2015-03-18T21:35:40

As a Cambridge Authorised Centre I had to sign an Equal Opportunities Policy Document - shouldn't ALL schools be doing that ? #ELTchat

HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:35:48

@languageeteach @Nafooh1988 It's a matter of basic common sense - recruit on MERIT! #ELTchat

HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:35:59

RT @Marisa_C: As a Cambridge Authorised Centre I had to sign an Equal Opportunities Policy Document - shouldn't ALL schools be doing that ?…

Marisa_C 2015-03-18T21:36:00

@HadaLitim Moi non plus :-) #ELTchat


#eltchat So, what can teachers themselves do to change this situation?

SueAnnan 2015-03-18T21:37:03

What can WE do to help things change? #ELTchat

HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:37:04

So would the endorsement of leading ELT organisations make a difference? #ELTchat

HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:37:12

RT @SueAnnan: What can WE do to help things change? #ELTchat

Marisa_C 2015-03-18T21:37:16

Anyway - this is not intended to scare people away from this discussion we need however to set standards for the Ts as well - #ELTchat

SyedaJavaid 2015-03-18T21:37:30

@MarekKiczkowiak yes, but unfortunately, this is a criteria in many jobs #ELTchat

languageeteach

2015-03-18T21:37:53

@Marisa_C Excellent point. #ELTchat

ivangysel 2015-03-18T21:38:03

@Marisa_C @pressfuturist Maybe we should recognise that having an accent is not a negative thing #ELTchat

TeresaBestwick

2015-03-18T21:38:14

@pressfuturist Support teachers in mainstream schools - share the TEFL methodology and affect! #ELTchat

MarekKiczkowiak

2015-03-18T21:38:25

@TeresaBestwick @languageeteach perhaps expert at speaking their regional variety. Does it mean they'd be able to teach it, though? #eltchat

taskmagic 2015-03-18T21:38:29

RT @textivate: Scaffolding translation for your students (at many levels):http://t.co/iIuD98zCp9#langchat #eltchat http://t.co/OEVtb0eWSC


RT @TeresaBestwick: @pressfuturist Support teachers in mainstream schools - share the TEFL methodology and affect! #ELTchat

Marisa_C 2015-03-18T21:38:43

My own experience is that a strong candidate for the job who has good interpersonal skills will usually get the job #ELTchat

ivangysel 2015-03- @Marisa_C @pressfuturist Just like with native speakers, it

http://t.co/OEVtb0eWSC

http://t.co/OEVtb0eWSC

http://t.co/iIuD98zCp9#langchat

18T21:38:43 just tells you where someone is from #eltchatHadaLitim 2015-03-

18T21:39:01@ivangysel @Marisa_C @pressfuturist I always make a big point of this with my Ss and give them examples of the diff betwn the two #ELTchat

HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:39:09

RT @Marisa_C: My own experience is that a strong candidate for the job who has good interpersonal skills will usually get the job #ELTchat

Marisa_C 2015-03-18T21:39:12

@ivangysel @pressfuturist I don't have a perfect accent either #ELTchat

SueAnnan 2015-03-18T21:39:12

@taskmagic We are in the middle of a chat at the moment. PLease wait until finished before posting to #ELTchat

SyedaJavaid 2015-03-18T21:39:25

@TeresaBestwick @pressfuturist and help raise awareness regarding the criteria of a good language teacher #ELTchat

HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:39:32

@Marisa_C I totally agree. #ELTchat

MarekKiczkowiak

2015-03-18T21:39:36

@Marisa_C intersting. Never heard of it. Do all schools have to sign it? Does it have anything on NNESTs rights? #eltchat

Nafooh1988 2015-03-18T21:39:45

@SyedaJavaid - in a sense that she/he is more able to anticipate what are difficult parts in advance and why they are difficult? #ELTchat

languageeteach

2015-03-18T21:40:01

Teacher training centres should broach the issue as well, I think #ELTchat


@ivangysel That would be a good start. English in the UK has taken a long time to start losing its bias against *regional* accents. #eltchat

SueAnnan 2015-03-18T21:40:30

@languageeteach we do. Or there wouldn't be any on our courses #ELTchat

SyedaJavaid 2015-03-18T21:40:49

@Nafooh1988 yes and in even making a good rapport with the students #ELTchat

HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:40:55

@MarekKiczkowiak @Marisa_C The BC has a major policy of Equal Opportunities n diversity. Last week they were even celebrating it #eltchat

ivangysel 2015-03-18T21:41:04

@Marisa_C @pressfuturist Neither do I, and maybe having NN teacher might help students get over their obsession with their accent #ELTchat


@MarekKiczkowiak Only with training! :-) @TeresaBestwick @languageeteach #ELTchat

TeresaBestwick

2015-03-18T21:41:19

RT @SyedaJavaid: @TeresaBestwick @pressfuturist and help raise awareness regarding the criteria of a good language teacher #ELTchat

Marisa_C 2015-03-18T21:41:25

@MarekKiczkowiak An equal opportunities policy covers everything not this specifically - here is ours - http://t.co/lvL8v7kheI #ELTchat

MarekKiczkowiak

2015-03-18T21:41:42

@HadaLitim @Marisa_C whish the BC tried to spread it beyond their organisation. #eltchat

http://t.co/lvL8v7kheI

SueAnnan 2015-03-18T21:41:49

@Marisa_C @MarekKiczkowiak we have one too #ELTchat

languageeteach

2015-03-18T21:41:51

@SueAnnan ~That's good. I can't remember it being discussed on my course but that was a long time ago! #ELTchat


@Marisa_C Meanwhile, my BBC English Received Pronunciation makes me sound very outdated in the UK! :-) @ivangysel #ELTchat

HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:42:35

@MarekKiczkowiak @Marisa_C They'll tell you it's not their job.They try to steer clear of political issues to further their mission #eltchat

SueAnnan 2015-03-18T21:42:39

@languageeteach I'm in the middle of one at the mo. Got a Hungarian and a Portuguese trainee #ELTchat

HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:43:05

RT @languageeteach: Teacher training centres should broach the issue as well, I think #ELTchat

SyedaJavaid 2015-03-18T21:43:23

@MarekKiczkowiak @Marisa_C i think many have. But the problem is,they never say that you're not hired b'coz of nativespeakerism #ELTchat

Marisa_C 2015-03-18T21:43:36

@pressfuturist @ivangysel Lol poor you with your Estuary English :-) #ELTchat no wonder

languageeteach

2015-03-18T21:43:51

@TeresaBestwick @MarekKiczkowiak Is there a tendency for NS teachers to teach higher levels? #ELTchat

HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:44:00

There should be a unit/module on this in teacher training and ELT management courses #eltchat Does IH have one?

SueAnnan 2015-03-18T21:44:07

@Marisa_C @pressfuturist @ivangysel OUch!! #ELTchat LOL

MarekKiczkowiak

2015-03-18T21:44:33

@HadaLitim @Marisa_C Same with IATEFL. Very disappointing to say the least. #eltchat


@Marisa_C Cheeky! :-D #eltchat

SueAnnan 2015-03-18T21:44:52

@HadaLitim there is a session on mine, where we look at this very issue #ELTchat

HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:45:06

RT @SueAnnan: @HadaLitim there is a session on mine, where we look at this very issue #ELTchat

HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:45:17

@SueAnnan That's great! #ELTchat

Marisa_C 2015-03-18T21:45:52

@LaraCvanti sb who has the personal qualities, background knowledge & technical know-how to do their job well - isn't that a given? #eltchat

HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:46:15

RT @Marisa_C: @LaraCvanti sb who has the personal qualities, background knowledge & technical know-how to do their job well - isn't that a …

SueAnnan 2015-03-18T21:46:20

@Marisa_C @LaraCvanti No. But it should be #ELTchat

Marisa_C 2015-03- @pressfuturist just kidding #eltchat :-D

18T21:46:32languageeteach

2015-03-18T21:47:34

@SueAnnan @HadaLitim I give CELTA trainees 2 letters - one from a NS and one from a NNS graduate as everyone has insecurities #ELTchat

HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:47:55

@MarekKiczkowiak @Marisa_C Awareness campaigns like that of teflequity n sheer demographics will eventually get the better of this #ELTchat

Marisa_C 2015-03-18T21:48:13

@MarekKiczkowiak I think too many vested interests of gov agencies in these organisations - TESOL associated with USIS for example #eltchat

HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:48:28

@languageeteach @SueAnnan What kinds of letters? #ELTchat

languageeteach

2015-03-18T21:48:50

@HadaLitim And talk about issues of identity/accent/intelligibility when teaching pron for example #ELTchat

HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:49:22

@languageeteach much needed - sounds great! Where do you train? #eltchat

ManuelHerreraM

2015-03-18T21:49:34

RT @SueAnnan: Most of my PLN are NNests.Many of them are better qualified than me. There shouldnt be an issue #ELTchat

MarekKiczkowiak

2015-03-18T21:49:36

@Marisa_C but TESOL does support NNEST rights actively. They issued a public statement against discrimination and have a NNEST SIG #eltchat

Marisa_C 2015-03-18T21:49:43

IN all my experience of observing ss with Ts I have never seen a great NNEST NOT be appreciated by the Ss #ELTchat

HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:49:47

RT @MarekKiczkowiak: @Marisa_C but TESOL does support NNEST rights actively. They issued a public statement against discrimination and have…

languageeteach

2015-03-18T21:49:48

@HadaLitim @SueAnnan Letters outlining their experience on the course. #ELTchat

HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:50:08

@MarekKiczkowiak @Marisa_C IATEFL doesn't though. Right? #ELTchat

Marisa_C 2015-03-18T21:50:15

@MarekKiczkowiak international ? wasn't aware I stand corrected #ELTchat

languageeteach

2015-03-18T21:50:16

@HadaLitim I'm in the UK - east London. Not exotic! #ELTchat

ivangysel 2015-03-18T21:50:56


HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:51:05

@Marisa_C It's the same where I work #ELTchat The main trouble is with international recruitment I think

TanpaOshi48 2015-03-18T21:51:09

#KCA #VoteJKT48ID SueAnnan: Most of my PLN are NNests.Many of them are better qualified than me. There shouldnt be an issue #ELTchat

PrajuritVote 2015-03- #KCA #VoteJKT48ID SueAnnan: Most of my PLN are

18T21:51:10 NNests.Many of them are better qualified than me. There shouldnt be an issue #ELTchat

Yokoso_JKT48

2015-03-18T21:51:13


PrajuritVote2

2015-03-18T21:51:17


HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:51:19

RT @HadaLitim: @Marisa_C It's the same where I work #ELTchat The main trouble is with international recruitment I think #ELTchat

SyedaJavaid 2015-03-18T21:51:34

Do they ever say that you're not hired because you're not a native?? #ELTchat we need to deal with the diplomacy as well.


RT @Marisa_C: IN all my experience of observing ss with Ts I have never seen a great NNEST NOT be appreciated by the Ss #ELTchat

Marisa_C 2015-03-18T21:51:37

@LaraCvanti I do too - which is why we need to spread the word - the truth is that there are not enough NESTs to teach all the Ss #ELTchat

MarekKiczkowiak

2015-03-18T21:51:59

@HadaLitim @Marisa_C no. They prefer to be neutral, i.e. accept discrimination is happening, but look the other way #eltchat

smrefaei 2015-03-18T21:52:03

RT @Marisa_C: I believe that the BC and their very pro-British attitude of the past has a lot to do with much of what is happening now #ELT…

HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:52:36

@Marisa_C @LaraCvanti Exactly! And qualified, committed and experienced and even fewer and far between #ELTchat

MarekKiczkowiak

2015-03-18T21:52:47

@SyedaJavaid i've been told this more than once #eltchat

HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:53:18

@MarekKiczkowiak @Marisa_C Gentle, regular invitation to the call should eventually bear fruit. Don't give up #ELTchat

SyedaJavaid 2015-03-18T21:54:10

@MarekKiczkowiak i am always told that they have better options but off record they say its because I am a NNEST #ELTchat

HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:54:19

@languageeteach Well it depends which part actually ;) #eltchat

SueAnnan 2015-03-18T21:54:23

Perhaps someone could set up a NNEST sig for IATEFL #ELTchat

MarekKiczkowiak

2015-03-18T21:54:28

@HadaLitim @Marisa_C I won't. Trust me. #eltchat

Marisa_C 2015-03-18T21:54:38

It's the digital era - how can we turn this to the advantage of the NNEST professional ? #ELTchat

HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:54:41

RT @SueAnnan: Perhaps someone could set up a NNEST sig for IATEFL #ELTchat

languageeteach

2015-03-18T21:54:50

@HadaLitim Not the trendy bit! #eltchat

HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:55:02

@SueAnnan Exactly! I'd adhere! #ELTchat

MarekKiczkowiak

2015-03-18T21:55:25

@SueAnnan it's been suggested more than once, to no avail, infortunately #eltchat

smrefaei 2015-03-18T21:55:29

RT @Marisa_C: Anyway - this is not intended to scare people away from this discussion we need however to set standards for the Ts as well -…

elhaameslaami

2015-03-18T21:55:41

#ELTchat I think part of the problems lies in the governmental policies especially in the UK or other English speaking countries.

smrefaei 2015-03-18T21:55:58

RT @Marisa_C: My own experience is that a strong candidate for the job who has good interpersonal skills will usually get the job #ELTchat

HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:56:00

@Marisa_C Good question. #ELTchat

MarekKiczkowiak

2015-03-18T21:56:01

RT @Marisa_C: It's the digital era - how can we turn this to the advantage of the NNEST professional ? #ELTchat

HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:56:03

RT @Marisa_C: It's the digital era - how can we turn this to the advantage of the NNEST professional ? #ELTchat

Marisa_C 2015-03-18T21:56:08

@elhaameslaami yep #ELTchat

ivangysel 2015-03-18T21:56:29

@HadaLitim @Marisa_C Yes, maybe it's due to what language schools THINK students want and will help them sell their courses #ELTchat

IsmarAlabedi 2015-03-18T21:56:43

@pressfuturist I agree with this. Looking back I don't think I was ever taught grammar at school. #eltchat

HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:56:54

@elhaameslaami AND non English speaking countries. In fact most Asian countries including the Middle East #ELTchat

SyedaJavaid 2015-03-18T21:58:05

I had a great time at #ELTchat hope to be here next week.Thank you everyone for giving me a warm welcome and making me a part of it.

HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:58:14

@ivangysel @Marisa_C Well, why do governments get involved with that? Barring visas bec Ss don't like certain Ts sounds like biz #eltchat

MarekKiczkowiak

2015-03-18T21:58:17

@HadaLitim @Marisa_C join a FB group, e.g. NNEST, Budapest NNEST #ELTCHAT

HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:58:46

@MarekKiczkowiak @Marisa_C I've joined both already! #ELTchat

SueAnnan 2015-03-18T21:58:56

@SyedaJavaid you are very welcome. Thanks for your input #ELTchat

Marisa_C 2015-03-18T21:59:19

@ebefl I doubt it somehow - even on same qualifications u'd get the job #ELTchat

HadaLitim 2015-03- @TeresaBestwick @ivangysel @Marisa_C I don't think

18T21:59:49 schools are the main prob. Givt are. There should be quotas. 1/2 #ELTchat

HadaLitim 2015-03-18T22:00:08

@TeresaBestwick @ivangysel @Marisa_C Some nNESTS are discriminated in their own countries #ELTchat

MarekKiczkowiak

2015-03-18T22:00:15

got to run. Thanks everyone! Would be more than happy to write up the summary #eltchat

ebefl 2015-03-18T22:00:41

@Marisa_C I meant 'non-human' english speaking teachers...rise of the machines! ;) #ELTchat

SueAnnan 2015-03-18T22:00:42

@MarekKiczkowiak Thanks. Hada offered too. Why don't you both do one? #ELTchat

Marisa_C 2015-03-18T22:00:43

@LaraCvanti of course! Because the myth holds well still - and that myth says that the expertise lies in the hands of the NEST #ELTchat

HadaLitim 2015-03-18T22:00:47

@LaraCvanti @Marisa_C The sad reality of too many countries #ELTchat

Marisa_C 2015-03-18T22:01:09

@ebefl oops missed that one #ELTchat

MarekKiczkowiak

2015-03-18T22:01:31

@SueAnnan sounds good @HadaLitim what do you think? #eltchat

SueAnnan 2015-03-18T22:01:43

An Interesting chat with some new contributors. Great #ELTchat

michaelegriffin

2015-03-18T22:01:45


HadaLitim 2015-03-18T22:01:45

@SueAnnan @MarekKiczkowiak I think Marek would be great for this one! I'm happy to give in ;) #eltchat Thanks Marek #ELTchat

TeresaBestwick

2015-03-18T22:02:23

Thanks everyone - great bit of talking shop for a Weds eve #eltchat

Marisa_C 2015-03-18T22:02:25

and NNESTs look good in grass skirts #ELTchat - oh well sorry if this sounds too bitter but it's an attitude which is still around

MarekKiczkowiak

2015-03-18T22:02:26

@Marisa_C @LaraCvanti hopefully, it will be debunked sooner or later #eltchat

HadaLitim 2015-03-18T22:02:29

@ebefl @Marisa_C And you strike again! #ELTchat

ivangysel 2015-03-18T22:02:33

@HadaLitim @TeresaBestwick @Marisa_C I think it's probably a very complicated comb. of factors which makes it difficult 2 change #eltchat

HadaLitim 2015-03-18T22:02:40

RT @ivangysel: @HadaLitim @TeresaBestwick @Marisa_C I think it's probably a very complicated comb. of factors which makes it difficult 2 ch…

MarekKiczkowiak

2015-03-18T22:03:03

@HadaLitim @SueAnnan you were the first one. let's write it together. #eltchat

SueAnnan 2015-03- okay @MarekKiczkowiak I'll send you the transcript

18T22:03:11 #ELTchat

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