>> Welcome everyone. This is Michael Morris, executive director of the national disability Institute. We are glad to many people are joining us today from across the country. We have close to 1000 people preregister. The numbers are getting right up there on the screen in terms of people joining us. This is a very important webinar called ABLE accounts, trust, financial and benefits planning. This is being brought to you by the ABLE National Resource Center and we are pleased that sponsorship today of this webinar is being brought to you by Bank of America. Before I introduce you to the panel , we want to take you into some of the logistical issues to provide you an effective listening environment. Let me turn it back to Nakia Matthews who will go over those points.

Thank you Michael. The audio for today's webinars being broadcast to your computer. Make sure your speakers are turned on or headphones are plugged in. You can control the audio by the audio broadcast panel. If you accidentally close this panel or if the sound stops, you can reopen this panel by going to the communicate menu at the top of your screen, and choosing joining audio broke us. -- Webcast. If you prefer to listen by phone number you can dial the toll-free number that you see here and enter the meeting code. Please note that you do not need to enter an attend the idea. I will leave this up on the screen for a few seconds longer in case anyone need it. I will also paste it into the chat box. Captioning is provided during this webinar. The captions can be found in the media viewer panel which appears in the lower right-hand corner of the webinar platform. If you would like to make it larger , you can do so by minimizing some of the other panels such as chat or Q&A. If you do not need or want to see the captions, you can minimize the media viewer panel. We will have time for some questions at the end of the webinar. Please lose -- use the Q&A box to submit any questions you may have and we will direct those questions to our speakers. If you are listening by phone only and not logged into the web portion, you may also ask questions by emailing them to me directly at nmatthews@ndi-inc.org. This webinar is being recorded and will be placed on the website as well at the URL that you see below . Finally, if you experience any technical difficulties during the webinar, use the chat box to send a message to the host or email me directly at my email address.

Before I introduce the members of the panel, let me put in context the discussion we are going to have today. The ABLE act was signed into law in December 2014. 2015 across this country, so many of you, people with disabilities , family members advocates and others, work with their states to pass state legislation which would authorize the establishment of ABLE programs . In the very end of 2015 , with the change in the tax laws, there was a major change related to the ABLE Act . That change is that no longer will a person who is eligible to open an ABLE account be limited to their state of residence. Once any state in the country opens an ABLE program which we expect to happen very soon, in April, May or June, we expect some of the first states to open ABLE programs. Wherever you live if you are eligible for an ABLE account , you will have choices to be made . We hope that the ABLE National Resource Center ,

www.ableNRC.org will help you with information to make an informed decision. We expect to offer comparisons of key features of ABLE programs as states begin to open. Please do visit that website.

We thought before we could really get into what is going to happen in the next few months, this is the perfect time to have the kind of panel that we have put together today . It is a panel of subject matter experts with different perspectives and different experience and expertise that we hope will help you shape your opinions on what to do , whether you are a person with a disability who may be eligible to open an ABLE account, grandparent, parent, friend, relative, who will be ABLE to make these choices in the months to come this panel includes Kelly Thompson, Trust and Estate Attorney from the state of Virginia, Yolanda Mazyck, Executive Director of Shared Horizons Pooled Special Needs Trust Here in the greater DC area ; James Sheldon, Supervising Attorney at Neighborhood Legal Services Inc. in New York; and one of the leading national experts on benefits under Social Security and other programs as well, that supports people with disabilities. We also have a director of one of the work incentives advocacy projects funded by the Social Security Administration. We have as well Mark Friese, Vice President at Merrill Lynch, Menick-Friese Group , a financial planner and also a parent of a child with a disability ; and we have William Thompson, Deputy Executive Director of Florida Prepaid College Board, Florida ABLE Program , which is going to be the originator of the Florida ABLE program expected to open later this year. We have brought this panel together because we feel that each of these individuals has expertise that we want you to hear about. The approach we are taking will be first to ask each of the panelists a set of questions, to help you learn more about their expertise and help inform your future decision-making. Them we are going to go to some questions which will be open to the entire panel. Along the way you will be ABLE to put questions in the chat box and we will try to get to some of those questions as well . We hope by the end of this hour and a half you will be receiving new information, reinforcing information you already knew . All of this is about helping everyone understand better, the potential benefits and opportunities available for achieving -- from the achieving a better life experience act as it works toward its next stage of implementation across the country, which will give people who are eligible you choices. With that, let me turn to the focus of our discussion, What are the critical factors needed to amke informed decisions? -- make informed decisions?

Instead of a trust, What are the differences between various types of trusts? . What is benefits planning and how does it relate to financial planning . These are some of the questions that we will cover.

First I am going to turn to Kelly Thompson, as they mention, an attorney in nearby Arlington, Virginia. She is a published author on trust administrations in Virginia. She has spent a great deal of her professional life focused on trusts and is considered by Washingtonian magazine one of the top lawyers in the area, one of Virginia's super lawyers and one of America's best lawyers. Kelly, I appreciate you being with us. Let me go to question number 1. What are the critical

factors needed to make informed decisions? what is a special needs trust?

It is a particular type of trust. First of all we look at trust in general which are created for a wide variety of purposes . It may be for tax savings of some kind or another. They may be simply to make sure that there is management of assets for someone who is too young to do it properly were old enough to know better but still not hitting it quite right , or to protect folks from exploitation . A special needs trust could have all of those advantages. The special part of it is it provides a way to shelter assets so that they are not considered as countable resources or countable income , for benefits purposes. If you are thinking about SSI and Medicaid etc., in some cases housing assistance as well, this would not count against the person.

Let me go to the next question. I'm having a little trouble .

I think you wanted to talk about the various types of special needs.

There we go. Are there different kinds of special needs trust? Is there something called a typical customer that you find sitting across from your desk?

Some days I wish there was a just -- a typical customer. Don't find much typical in my office. There are very definitely, certain types of special needs trust. I often find that people are very confused about this. It's good to spend just a couple of minutes about what the types are. We have two broad categories, first party trust and third-party trust. The way to think of this is a first party trust , money is coming from the first and most important party, the person with the disability.. The third-party trust, the money for the trust comes from a third-party , any third party, whether it be a parent, grandparent, friends that want to help, what ever the source might be. The first party trust is a lot more complex than the third-party trust. The first party trust is a very special exception in the federal law that says that a person under 65 with a disability can have this type of trust , funded with their own assets . We talk about their own assets , that maybe money they are getting from a personal injury or medical malpractice settlement. It may be an inheritance that they are receiving that was directed directly to them rather than through a trust. It could be someone who becomes disabled later in life and has accumulated assets but is now disabled and needs to shelter them in one way or another. Those are the various sources of funding that a person under 65 with a disability can use to take these assets and put them in a trust and have them not count as assets or resources for benefits purposes. SSI and Medicaid look at these trust very carefully. It is very difficult to keep up with all of the changes in regulations, trust me. Let's be clear. The law is saying you can keep all of this money and still get benefits. There has got to be some regulation .

The biggest regulation with these trusts is that at the death of the beneficiary, the person with the disability, Medicaid must be paid back for whatever they paid out during the lifetime of the trust. If I am receiving Medicaid waivers services, and then I my death, Medicaid says there is the amount we paid out for your benefits , then my trust must pay back to Medicaid to the extent that the trust has enough assets to do that , for those services that Medicaid provided. >> The Medicaid claim cannot exceed the amount in the trust. If there is more in the trust then Medicaid is claiming which is a case I have on my desk this week, the trust is worth $500,000 in the Medicaid claim is $50,000. The excess $450,000 can go to whomever he trust was designated . A third-party trust is very different. If I as a parent of a special needs child establish a special needs trust for my child's benefit, or a grandparent as well, then there is no pay back to Medicaid because the money came from a third-party . The assets never belonged to the beneficiary , the person with the disability. That is a major differentiation between the two types of trusts.

Underneath the category of person -- of first party trust there is also an option called a pooled trust which is provided by federal law. One of the nice differentiations there is a person with a disability can set up their own account. First party trust typically cannot be established by the individual with a disability. Can only be established by a parent or grandparent , etc. A pooled trust is innocent -- an advantage of being started by the person with the disability that has the ability to do that. Yolanda will get more into depth about a Pooled Trust. There are also pooled trusts available for the third-party trust. A lot of these programs that operate first party trust, also operate third-party trust. The first party trust , third party trust and underneath that may be a Pooled Trust category which will be explained further. In terms of a typical customer -- [ Laughter ] -- I wish there was a typical. Is what I love about my practice. There is something different every hour. A typical client is first of all a family, --. Often I get several generations of a family coming in together to play for a family member who has a disability. I work with the family on creating a special needs trust, also concerning issues such as guardianship, benefits. That is a fairly typical customer. Maybe that I have the grandparents coming Wednesday we are going to play for the planning -- pay for the planning but speak to the parents about how they want it to work. I may even have siblings of the person with the disability involved as well. We often have the special needs person involved in the planning as well.

The other instance is often where I do work directly with the person with the disability to structure a first party trust. Then I have everything in between. I work with other attorneys who are obtaining personal injury settlements and need help with structuring the settlements so that the person receives maximum benefits. It runs the gamut.

Let me see if I can get this to move forward to question three. I will tell you the question. Often the question we get all the time is -- trusts are only for people with lots and lots of money. It is an expensive thing to set up. Can you talk a little bit about the range of costs associated with opening and managing a special needs trust? We know there are several kinds that you mention. Is there a minimum dollar amount needed in assets?

First of all, it is hard to talk about what the range of costs is in opening a trust because it varies greatly within a geographic area and also varies greatly from one part of the country to another part of the country. I belong to a group called the special needs alliance, a national group attorneys that does this kind of work. I talk with my colleagues around the country. I am amazed at the wide range of fees that are charged. Trusts are certainly not just for the wealthy. Special needs trust -- it does not matter if my child is going to inherit $5000 or $5 million for me. The considerations are the same in terms of protecting their eligibility for benefits. I see many families where all they are going to be ABLE to leave their child is perhaps the equity in their home or a small life insurance policy. That still needs to be protected just like a wealthy family who may be leaving much much more money.. There is certainly no idea that trusts are only for the wealthy. That is not generally true, even for nonspecial needs trusts . The range that you can expect to set up a third-party trust would be anywhere from several hundred dollars to a couple thousand dollars . To set up a first party special needs trust with assets that belong to the individual with the disability, the pricing would start at several thousand dollars probably. It could be even more if you have to go to court for permission to establish the trust.

In terms of what you have to have to go into a trust, a lot of people say , you can't have a trust unless you have at least $1 million because that is what banks require. That is not correct. A trust doesn't mean it is at a bank. The vast majority of trusts that I draft have a family member as the trustee. The only cost as you go forward in administering the trust is what that family member may choose to charge . I always provide the family member the ability to charge , but many of them do not charge or they charge very reasonably. If a bank or professional is administering a special needs trust, typically their fee will be something like 1% to 1.5% of the value of the trust annually. In my experience that is pretty uniform around the country.

Thank you Kelly. That sets a certain context that will bring back -- that we will bring back when we talk about ABLE accounts. Now want to turn to Yolanda -- I now want to turn to Yolanda. Yolanda Mazyck, Executive Director of Shared Horizons Pooled Special Needs Trust , Kelly alluded to these trusts as something that is an option. Yolanda can you explain to the audience briefly what a Pooled Income Trust is?

Shelley provided -- Kelly provided a very excellent beginning. One of the things that Shared Horizons does as we -- is we serve as trustees of Pooled Income Trust's. We have gone to the process of getting

approved in a few states but don't like to market in all of those areas. The difference between the pulled special needs trust and the SNT is that the pooled special needs trust is , we have one master document that is preapproved by Social Security and the state Medicaid department in which we have been approved to operate in. For most of the people that come to us. If they are working with an estate planning attorney which we do encourage all people who have a title of the disability to work with, an attorney that can help them put all of their estate in order. Other than that attorney, there is no need to hire a specific attorney to draft the special needs trust document, because we have already done that. That has already been approved. Because of this, oftentimes there is a savings of cost and time that can be enjoyed because you don't have the additional expense of hiring the attorney to draft the document and then getting it approved. For the pool , in addition to the master document, when Congress directed the statute, they also allowed us to pool resources for investment purposes.

What that allows us to do is when people join the trust, if they have $20,000 or $25,000 or even $100,000, instead of us having to establish an account specifically for that amount of money , we will have that amount of money for their subaccount to the large pool that we manage. Sometimes allows us to buy different kinds of products as opposed to having a smaller amount and being oftentimes limited with certain specific types of products that we can buy for investment purposes.'s Kelly mentioned, for the pooled special needs trust, the person with the disability can establish that trust for themselves. They don't necessarily need a parent, grandparent or the courts. They have that ability to come to us and say, I am over resourced, I have an inheritance. Want to establish a subaccount within the pool -- I want to establish a subaccount within the pool.'s Kelly mentioned, there are two types of trusts that I would say most nonprofits that manage a trust -- by the way, you have to be a nonprofit to manage a pooled special needs trust -- most of them manage both the self-funded as well as the third-party. Kelly gave you a summary of those accounts. Other than that, we operate the same as every other individual trust. We have to follow the same rules and guidelines that Social Security and Medicaid out mine -- outline and provide is when the approved the trust. The only other thing that may be different, and this will depend upon each individual nonprofit that manages the trust, at the time of death, if money remains in the account, for the SNT , Medicaid will provide that special needs trust with a lean amount that has been paid out for persons care. -- lien Amount that has been paid out for the person's care. Because we tend to get smaller accounts we don't get the multimillion dollar accounts consistently. Because of this, what we can charge or the revenue that we received from those accounts are limited. For charitable purposes, Congress allows pooled special needs trust to retain -- trusts to retain a portion of what is in the account. There are some trust or pooled special needs trust s in United States, -- this will vary .

We are ABLE to retain 50% of what remains when the person passes away. Medicaid then has the right to the remaining 50% if up to the amount they paid out --, up to the amount they paid out to the person's care. Whatever is left over will go to the person's estate or if they identify a beneficiary to receive the remaining balance.

Yolanda, you have grown in terms of beneficiaries to over 600 beneficiaries. Is there a typical customer that you could describe?

I would have to agree with Kelly. It is difficult to pinpoint a typical customer. We have anywhere from someone that may be employed and they have a developmental disability and are in -- they have a job coach and are employed and at times are over resourced there is a buildup money in their personal savings account when they need just a little protection or a means of sheltering their poor their benefits as well as their funds. Oftentimes they come to us. Initially, that was not be population we intended to work with. But about 3 or 4 years into manage during -- managing this, we found there was a growing population of people who were employed and didn't want to purchase another television . They had all of their vacations paid for and they still had more than a $2000 threshold that SSI did at. They will come to us and ask us to create a special trust which we call a pilot program. This is one type of typical customer. >> We have a lot of attorneys, whether they are trial attorneys, settlement companies, that are litigating and negotiating settlements for people. Some of them are small settlements, anywhere from $20,000-$25,000 up to over $500,000, which is our largest account. It's actually $600,000. If there is no particular order to -- if there is no typical customer, it is basically individuals who take a look at whether they want to use an attorney to draft the document or if they want to the ease of the prepackaged idea of a pooled special needs trust. I wish it could be more -- [ Indiscernible - Intermittent Audio ] I'm sorry. It is a range. It also depends upon the feeling that the family gets when they meet with our trust or the attorney, or the other special needs attorney. If you don't get a good feeling, the relationship may be strained. This is an important piece that I would encourage everyone that is looking for someone to manage their trust fund , to ensure they have that feeling and the trust before signing the documents and transferring the assets.

One last question for you right now is, everyone is concerned about these. We talked about the structure with Kelly. What is your fee structure that Shared Horizons? -- At Shared Horizons?

There is a one-time enrollment fee that everyone will pay for the standard trust. That is $1000. That is the enrollments that allows us to work with you to complete all of the documents, the agreement, allows us to establish your subaccount within the pool, within our accounting instruments and our accounting software, as well as establishing your relationship with in the nonprofits so that we have all of your information and your contact , you're welcome packet, all of that which is included in the enrollment . The annual fee is based upon the balance much like Kelly mentioned, remaining in the trust.

We actually have a sliding fee scale up to $45,000 . Anything under $45,000, the lower and for the standard trust , it is $450 annual. The next year is $550 and in the next -- the next tier is 550 and then it goes up to 650, etc. We recognize for the pilot program, there are smaller accounts coming in. We did a cost savings for folks that wanted to join the pool under the pilot program. We reduce the enrollment fee down to 500 down to $500 down to $500. The annual fee is $200 per year to manage the account.

Thank you. Will leave it -- I will leave it there for now. I will now turn to Mark . We will start with a few questions. I can't move the cursor. I instead will just introduce Mark Friese, Vice President at Merrill Lynch, Menick-Friese Group . You have dedicated your financial planning career to working with families with a son or daughter with disabilities. My first question is, how do you start ? How do you help a family with financial planning who have a son or daughter with disabilities, and may or may not have other children with disabilities?

Thank you for allowing us to talk about this. The first thing I discuss with them is first-hand experience. I have a son who was 19 years old. For most families I have walked in their shoes. I know what they are trying to struggle with. I have struggled with IEP meetings come up getting benefits and resources . I know exactly what they are going to. -- IEP meetings, getting benefits and resources. Know exactly what they are going through. The biggest question is, what will happen to my child when I am gone . That's a tough question. You have to figure out what planning you will put in place. The first up is building a team . The team would be someone who will be ABLE to take care of the money, who will be responsible for the money . Are you going to put it in a special needs trust or a pooled trust? You have to look at all of illegals. It's not just the special needs member but the whole family. Did a lot of cases now using autism as an example, a lot of families, parents are older, 50s and 60s and the child is still living at home. And about 70% of the cases this is true. We want to make sure that is cover. We want to make sure they are understanding all of the benefits that are available. Have they gotten Social Security benefits? Do they have guardianship? Who will handle the healthcare? Are there healthcare workers as backups. Lastly I describe a letter of intent which is a document that says what is the roadmap that you have set aside for the next person taking over. I ask the parents to draw it up and put it in a word document or whatever. What are the things you do on a day-to-day basis that someone else taking over should know about your child. Good example would be , if you don't know about the strawberry jam that goes on the pills before he takes him, you will have a difficult time ahead of your self -- ahead of yourself getting him to take his pills. Tricks like that are important to note. This is special needs planning. It's covering two distinct lifetimes. It's covering the child who has a disability but also covering the parents . If the parents are not okay financially, the child is not okay financially. The parents have to be looked at as well. It is not regular financial planning that a regular financial planner can do. This is much longer over a lifetime. If the

parents aren't okay, the child is not okay. The ABLE Act is going to allow parents to put money aside for an important strategy, one piece of it. You also are trying to figure out, how much money you need for that child. That's a tough calculation. When you take a look at this letter of intent, you may also write down some numbers, how much am I spending on my child right now. --? What about inflation? What will they need in the future? We have a special needs calculator which is free and complementary. Allows you to do the beginning steps which is to figure out how much it will cost for your child. When you are figuring out about whether you want to put money in ABLE or a special needs trust or a pooled special needs trust, you can think of how much money to put in there. You can draw about 5% out of a portfolio over five -- 15 to 20 years and the money will last. If you want to last 15 years for child, you must have $1 million. Most people don't have that much money lying around. We -- review a lot of potential problems. You should definitely think about how risky and expensive investments are. The money needs to last your entire lifetime as well as money to be set aside for your child. These are things we think about in terms of financial planning for people with disabilities.

Let's go to the second question Mark. As we all know -- we provided the context that the beginning of this webinar -- no one anywhere in the country can open an ABLE account but it is coming soon. We know several states will be opening a all programs -- opening ABLE programs in the next few months. Do you have families that come in asking about financial planning? What is a level of interest you are seeing around ABLE accounts ? Is this part of the discussion and providing of information that is now part of your overall financial planning strategy ?

It's probably the hottest topic to ever come out in the special needs community in years but how will it work? Should I use it? How does this mix with Pooled Trust or regular trust that a lawyer helps. I try to use a bucket analogy. I told you originally in order to generate $50,000 for your child, you need about $1 million. Unfortunately with ABLE you cannot put $1 million into the account. That will not be your only solution. I describe this as a bucket analogy. The first thing you need to do is see if your child is eligible for Social Security benefits. They will get benefits perk that's one bucket you may be ABLE to use were spending purposes for that topic the second bucket will be be ABLE account, $14,000 a year, I don't think any person that has means should not do something in an ABLE account. The third bucket would be a special needs trust such as what Kelly was talking about. That will have a larger amount of money which is unlimited. All three of those pieces are going to be available for that child. Most family members will need money from all of those resources.

We then go to a third question which I asked of Kelly and Yolanda. Do you have a typical customer? Is there a way to discuss that person or family? >> In the special needs world, it is anything but typical. Special needs family members typically spend $30,000-$40,000 extra per year, over a lifetime $1.4 million extra . They are overwhelmed, overworked and desperately searching for answers. What we try to do is

calm them down, give them resources, educate outside family members so that they know. We like to give them a plan. I spoke about somewhere between 80% and 80 -- 70% and 80% of those special needs adults are living at home. How are they going to handle that? Most arrive at our door as referrals or have attended outreach events we have had. We have a panel discussion. We will bring in a lawyer such as Kelly to talk about how trusts work. We will bring in someone such as Yolanda to talk about pooled trusts. This is how they have come to me as. Parents come searching for answers. My logo is, I am the quarterback of your advocacy team. I am there to help you build a team. We want to be sure that the life of your child with a special needs is easier.

As I asked of each of our panelists , what do you help them with first.

We talk about signing up for Social Security and all the differences between all of the different accounts across the country. They're all going to have different fund expenses and choices. The ABLE Act account was mirrored after the 529 account. When you look across the entire country there are many different choices and they are all different. There are different fee structures and rules. Some have what our lifestyle funds , which means a particular fund would change automatically over time , as far as the mix of assets. This might be good for someone who is not savvy about financial planning. Someone of a very low cost index which would be lot -- a lot less expensive than a mutual fund. We also help you manage your own many. Parents have to be okay in order for the child to be okay. We do that on a discretionary fee basis. That fee would range anywhere from .75% to 1.5%, depending on the value of the assets that we are managing.

Mark, I will add one more question . You have one of the larger practices in the DC area in terms of working with families with a son or daughter with a disability. Do you have any sense of what percents you think -- percent you think in your overall planning, an ABLE account will fit in and be a part of your strategy?

Anyone I talked to had better do it. I think it is a good program. There is no downside to this program for someone. There are a lot of controversies about this piece -- the different pieces including the Medicaid pay back. But I think the ABLE Act account will be used more as an ongoing account. That means we can tell them to spend it down to not have any money left over when they pass away. They will also have the other special needs trust account available. I think it is good for a lot of people. I don't see anyone that shouldn't do it as long as I have a financial resources to do it. It is also going to be ABLE to be funded -- it's also going to be possible for other family members to use it. If you have a special needs child, there are a lot of people around you that love you and want to help you. One of the best things you can do is tell them about the rules and tell them that ABLE is now available. This is the opportunity for them to maybe help you fund account if you can't do it on your own.

Thank you Mark. Let me now turn to James Sheldon, Supervising Attorney at Neighborhood Legal Services Inc. . For the purposes of this , you are not a trust attorney the part of the nationwide system or what are called whipper grants -- WIPA grants. What is your typical customer?

Thank you for sponsoring this webinar. The most common use of the term , benefits advisor, which some of our funders use, it refers to an individual who cancels persons with disabilities who receive SSI or Social Security insurance which I will refer to as SSDI, who are working were planning to work . Other terms that are often used to describe the same type of person are benefits planner or counselor or a community work incentive coordinator .

Typical customer -- there are a few . Our priority is people who are working or looking for work. It may be someone with a developmental disability who is going to be working part-time, maybe only making a few hundred dollars a month and there is some fear of losing cash benefits or Medicaid . This could go right up to the college graduate, may be advanced educated person who is ABLE to make $30,000 or $50,000, we have a person that we have counseled off and on for years who works in a government position making over $100,000 . He is still ABLE to take advantage of a special Medicaid to work incentive . The range of customers is quite broad. >> While I am waiting for the next question -- [ Overlapping Speakers ]

Let me just take you back one-stop -- one step for a second. I called this whipper grants -- WIPA grants. Who is a typical grantee ?

The Social Security Administration has been distributing grants Monday allocated by Congress to support benefits advisors or what Social Security calls community work incentive coordinators to do the work that I am going to describe . As many people on this call now, Social Security disability, SSDI and SSI are very complicated programs. Those rules get particularly complicated when it comes to work and earnings . Sometimes these rules can become a disincentive. Sometimes the complexity itself can become a disincentive. There are some very powerful work incentive, both to allow people to continue cash benefits for often a time limited purpose , or in the case of Medicaid and Medicare, often these health insurance -- the health insurance can continue indefinitely. The well trained benefits advisor will be familiar with all of these rules and in a position to guide the beneficiary through all of the what if's . What's going to happen if I work at this level? What will happen with my Medicaid? We will even get into what is going to happen with some of the collateral benefits such as housing subsidies.

The next question is ; are their fees and costs involved in the services that you are dealing with would be funded WHIP grants across the country.

Certainly not for the WHIP grants . There is a growing number of agencies that are funding the service their fee for service arrangements. In those cases, there are no fees charged. The third emerging funding source is some of the Medicaid waiver programs, some of the newer ones . They are now ABLE to build this into the services available through Medicaid waivers. In those cases there would be no fees. I am not aware of anyone charging fees for this service. I am -- I suppose it could happen.

Okay. Our third question to you is; of course this is about the coming beginning of ABLE accounts to be ABLE to be opened by people across the country. -- For people to open across the country.

I want to urge anyone on the call, if you really want to dig into the issue of SSI and Medicaid , what I am going to address in a second -- the Social Security Administration just last week, March 27 -- 22nd, put out the second iteration of their program operation manual system provision and it is in SI 00130 . It is a very exciting read if you have been doing this for long. The availability of ABLE will allow the benefits advisor to offer one more cool that's going to submit -- to be ABLE to work and keep financial independence while they retain cash -- Medicaid and Social Security benefits in general. This shows the extremes of who we work with. The SSI rules contain any number of provisions that make it tough for people to keep their SSI benefits from being diminished. If someone bumps into the $2000 asset limit for SSI -- that could be a problem. The ability for a family member to contribute to an ABLE accounts, if you look at the SSI regulations , if distributions are made to pay for rent, those are not considered income for the SSI beneficiary. That's important. Right now if you get free rent, the SSI payment could be reduced by up to 1/3. The second example is we are seeing a growing number of individuals who are ABLE to work their way off SSI but to retain Medicaid through something known as the 1619 be work incentive -- 1619B work incentive. You still must meet the SSI limitations even though you may be making $60,000 a year or more. What this does is allows that individual to put some of their excess earnings up to the yearly limit of $14,000 into the ABLE account , as they save toward any number of expenses. As you look at the list, it is a very broad list. Right now someone on 1619 be is not ABLE -- 1619B is not ABLE to set aside money for housing -- is not able to set aside money for housing. Be ABLE account up to the $100,000 a year cap -- the ABLE account up to the $100,000 a year cap -- if the account exceeds $100,000, we are talking several years off because the programs not even operating at. Even though the SSI benefits would be suspended the Medicaid would continue indefinitely even though the assets in the ABLE account exceed $100,000, as long as they meet all of the other SSI resource requirements. This is going to open up a whole new tool chest for the benefits advisors who are advising people who were working at those higher levels of income they need to retain Medicaid.

Thank you Jim. Those are some excellent examples. I will mention that the Social Security POMS you can find on the ABLE national resource Center website. Go to ablenrc.org and you will find that. I would now like to speak with William Thompson, Deputy Executive Director of Florida Prepaid College Board, Florida ABLE Program. Thank you for hanging in there . We had a lot of information to cover. We had a lot of questions and answers. You are the member of the panel in a state which is expected to be one of the first states to open an ABLE account. For the fairly large audience across the country, can you briefly share what an ABLE account will look like in Florida .

Hello Michael a good afternoon for everyone. Thank you for the opportunity to join you. As everyone has been discussing, ABLE accounts have been very frequently discussed. High-level, how do I know if I am eligible for an ABLE account ? An ABLE account is for individuals with disabilities. It must be a marked and severe disability as determined by the standards set by the Social Security Administration. If you currently receive SSI or SSDI for the disability, that disability would qualify. If you would otherwise meet the standard but maybe can't make that stand right now for income or asset [ Indiscernible ] that disability still qualifies. The federal legislation had put an age limitation for the onset of the disability. If the disability occurs before age 26, the onset of the disability before age 26, regardless of your current age, you are eligible for an ABLE account. The other limitations are that you can only have one ABLE account nationwide . The individual with the disability is the owner of that account. That lets us know who is eligible currently under the federal law to establish an ABLE account. Quickly, why would you want to open an ABLE account? Two primary reasons are tax advantage savings, you can put up to $14,000 per year into this account. It works like an raw savings account or college plan , after-tax money that you put into an account. Those funds can grow tax-free. The other advantage is to maintain your Social Security income, SSI for your Medicaid benefits. The assets inside of an ABLE Account are disregarded for those programs. There is an exception with SSI, if the account balance exceeds $100,000, the excess counts as a resource for SSI purposes . Social Security Administration would also look at housing expenses paid for by an ABLE Account. Those two items, if you receive SSI, we would want to look through that information to see to make sure that the ABLE Account is set up correctly for you. With respect to Medicaid, regardless of the balance, it is disregarded for purposes of Medicaid calculations.

In terms of what is coming soon, can you give us a peek a little under the tent where you are working on the Florida ABLE Program and how it may be different from other states ?

First the federal law provides the structure of ABLE accounts that we just discussed. Other states may have requirements. The requirements with Florida is you may be -- must be a Florida resident. We are launching a qualified ABLE Program called ABLE United . In order to enroll the individual with the disability must be a resident at the time of enrollment. If they subsequently move, they can retain the plan. We

anticipate seeing a variety of different states open up to their residence and nationwide -- residents and nationwide, but more than likely to give additional benefit to the resident of the state. There may be lower fees, community involvement, knowledge of the state benefit program specific to that state, to ensure that you have the information to know how you are utilizing the account. Potentially, tax deductions for those contributing to the account. Those are some factors that you are going to want to look at. As far as some other differentiators. Between ABLE United and other qualified programs, the $14,000 year contribution, it is the same across the board because it is federal. The maximum amount that you can have as a balancing continue to contribute, we anticipate that will vary by states between $200,000-$400,000. For example, in Florida you will be ABLE to have an account balance up to $418,000 currently and you can continue to contribute up to that point. You will not be ABLE to contribute any further until your balance drops below $418,000. With respect to fees, we anticipate there will be a wide variety of fees charged by states. However, it is still within a small range. We expect most states to be $60 or less per year. On the absent -- assets management side, 60 basis points or less for any direct sold model. In other words, an financial advisor is not involved. These could go lower. You could be all the way down to potentially free. The average would be somewhere from $0-$60 and 60 basis points. You could have checks made out to third parties that to the individual with the disability wants to pay. You could withdraw down to a checking account to satisfy a bill. Perhaps the qualified ABLE Program will have a prepaid card or debit card for immediate access. As mentioned earlier, there will be some different investment options. You will want to look at the risk tolerance to determine if you are looking for a savings option such as money market or more concerned about the principle , or looking for the opportunity to grow the asset and therefore willing to take on a little more risk . In that case you could look at investing in stocks, bonds or lifestyle funds as mentioned earlier.

The last two quick points, you may see some ABLE Program's that will have a certain minimum amount required for a period of time that those funds would have to be held for investment options. For example, you would have to put in $3000 to invest in an international equity option. That may be the case. You also want to look at who can administer the account. Is it just individuals with the disability --.individual with a disability or parents or multiple people? Just highlighting for the ABLE United program , the maximum $418,000, fees will be less than $50 and less than 50 basis points. We are finalizing a. We would like them to be as low as possible. The method of withdrawal that we will be offering is to be ABLE to send checks or have an electronic deposit of funds . The investment options, we have a savings option such as a money market. We have investment options for a fixed income, a domestic equity, international equity. And we have three the versatile -- three diversified portfolios, and conservative , etc. We don't have any requirements to invest in any of the funds or a duration . If you put the money in, you can take the money out whenever, next month. With respect to who can administer the account, the individual with the

disability may be ABLE to utilize and administer the account. A parent or legal guardian may assist and take on the role of an administrator and work with the individual with a disability. We are working to have a number of other parties be ABLE to assist the parents, legal guardian, individual with the disability in the proper administration of the account.

Thank you for that information and that glimpse of the coming programs in Florida. As you mention, before the program will be -- the Florida program will be for Florida residents only. That immediately drew multiple questions in the chat box. People are concerned, what if other states make that choice and limit their ABLE Program just to residents of their state . I suspect you could comment on that. We already know that states such as Ohio, Nebraska , Michigan, Virginia, and others are definitely planning programs that will be national in scope. They will be marketing to people across the country. But I wonder if you have any additional comments about that?

Thank you Michael. No, we anticipate to have a range of states, and many states offering a national program. Ohio will be one of the early if not the earliest national program. We are launching in June 4 Florida residents -- in June June 4 our Florida residents. We are looking to keep the fees low for Floridians and offering specific Florida resources and community involvement. We look forward to the opportunity to consider opening up nationwide. For right now, we are going to be for Florida residents only. We anticipate many members on this call for not Florida residents , there will be a number of options that will be open in 2016 .

Thank you. A question early on -- I think I will direct this one to Mark. There were several people that commented, how can a person or family find a financial planner with the appropriate knowledge and experience that will consider ABLE alongside other strategies that you mentioned .

I think when you are looking at a financial planner for any purpose, you have to look at their background, their credentials, how long they had been in the business. Do they have any experience in the subject you are interested in. When we are talking about -- ABLE, they have to understand the special needs world. We have two people who are certified financial planners on our team. I have a certified retirement planning designation. The American College has a Chardon special-needs advisor designation. One of our team members has this. That is another way you can check into this. Most major brokerage firms also have some sort of toll-free number that you can call up and say I need an advisor that has special needs expertise.

I know my firm, Merrill Lynch definitely has that. You can do a Google search and get information that way. You want to on -- make sure they understand the rules. There are a lot of rules and he special-needs fields. Kelly talked about a lot of them. They are important to

understand. If you don't understand the rules come you're going to have trouble making the right decisions. The last thing is you're going to need resources. I call myself a Rolodex because I am old school. I know pretty much everyone in the Maryland and DC special-needs area. If you need housing or something improved in your house, things like that, you would have a resource. You want to have someone who knows this area really well. I would try to find someone who has a lot of expertise with this and has been doing this for a long time and has credentials backing those skill sets.

Kelly, it seems that a similar question came up for you. How do I find, in my state or local community, an attorney who has the appropriate background and experience and expertise to consider my options for my son or daughter with a disability . Do you have some suggestions, Kelly?

Yes, first of all as I mentioned, I am a member of a national group of attorneys call the special-needs alliance. They have a website www special-needs alliance.org. The members there are all by invitation only and are regarded by their peers as having superior knowledge and practice in special-needs planning . There's a map on the website and you can click on your state and it will give you the list of folks in your state who do this kind of work . There are a few states were don't know anybody . Another resource would be to go to your local autism society or a RC or a similar -- ARC or a similar organization and ask them for resources. Those would be my primary suggestions.

Thank you Kelly. Another question in , I am a person on SSI, can I open an ABLE Account. Can I contribute to an ABLE Account. There are questions about if a person has a pooled special needs trust, could they move money from a special needs trust into an ABLE Account that they are opening more have opened would you like to comment on that --. Would you like to comment on that, Yolonda?

Can you hear me?

Yes. >> I am sorry. I'm going to need to defer to the other experts on the line. I really don't know how to answer that as far as whether they can move money from a special needs trust. I think that would be perfect for us managing accounts especially since the ABLE Account will allow rental payments . We live in DC. Housing is such an issue for our beneficiaries. I actually would like to have that question answered as well.

Who wants to try that one ?

I can give it a try, Michael.

Okay. The main thing I have been reading out of these POMS provisions for SSI, they are considering a trust a person. Along with anyone else making deposits within a calendar year, anyone

would be limited to the $14,000 amount as it is indexed for future years.

I am now going to turn to Kelly for another question. For families who have assets that are tied up in a special needs trust , could they contain a clause that would either mandate or permit the trustee to make transfers on a regular basis to an and ABLE Account ?

I am not certain that you really need a particular clause or authorization in the trust . Usually a special needs trust says that distributions may be made from income or principal to or for the benefit of the beneficiary. Establishing an ABLE Account falls under the benefit of the beneficiary. I don't think any specific authorizing language would even be necessary.

Okay. I'm going to go back to Jim Sheldon. We have several questions. You gave your examples of the way qualified distribution of funds from an ABLE Account can support housing . It is very different than the current rules for people under SSI . Several people would like you to go over that again and do with a little more slowly and accent the differences between what you might do under ABLE versus what the current rules are before ABLE Program came along.

It's probably best to state the general rule for people on SSI without ABLE Accounts , which is everybody right now. If you get free housing , someone is paying for your housing, someone is allowing you to live with very minimal rent , far below market, there is a cap set known as in-kind support maintenance. The value of that free housing is going to be given a value up to a maximum of 1/3 the federal benefit rate, three divided into 756 I think . It's either that or 753. That's the general rule. When you read those DOMS -- 1019 -- POMS prohibitions, when there is a qualified -- a designated expense for housing, qualified disability expense for housing , they could be paying the full rent and I can't see that there is any limitations on amounts, the SSI program is not going to count that as income. Things could be set up, a loved one could the paying $14,000 a year for the sole purpose of subsidizing their housing expense , without any impact on SSI. I like to call something like this a non-event for SSI.

Very good. Thank you. We also had some additional questions about the Medicaid pay back . Does any state offer an annual statement to you so that you would have a better understanding of how much money from Medicaid had been expended so that you can make adjustments accordingly in terms of your disbursement of funds from an ABLE Account? I am personally not aware of that , that any state has provided that type of annual accounting. But I will ask whether Kelly or Jim or Yolanda are aware of this . This would be very helpful to individuals and families. Does it exist?

It does exist is very helpful. Maryland provides it routinely . Virginia provides it upon request . North Carolina provided upon request. Those of the states that I have experience with.

DC will provide it upon request as well.

It is an option. Perhaps that is something that people can push for in more states. If that is not available in your state because of maybe the pressure, advocacy hasn't been there yet, it certainly would help with planning.

I encourage my clients to request it because it is a whole lot easier for them to monitor on an annual basis, whether the charges are correct rather than at payback on termination of a trust, trying to look back 20 years at all of the charges.

I will come back to Yolanda. One of the early questions was -- I don't understand this pooled concept. Can you explain that a little bit more as far as the pooled trust?

Yes, the pooled trust was actually created probably -- my understanding was Marty Ford to was instrumental in working with Congress to establish the exceptions for transferring assets into special needs trusts in the ninth hour. They created another trust opportunity. Then they realized that having assets between $500,000 and $2000, that SSI threshold is huge. In their minds, they were thinking that a person could go to a bank or an attorney to draft the document. But then you might have a difficult time finding an attorney or a bank to manage a trust account , if it were under a certain amount. I'm going to throw out an amount, less than $250,000 . They created the pooled concept , thinking that it could create more of a cost-effective way for families of modest means to establish a shelter for their loved ones that have disabilities with out having to have over 25 -- $250,000 or $500,000. The way they allowed that is, we are going to allow the nonprofit to create one master trust document , which is a document preapproved by Social Security and Medicaid. If you have an individual trust, you go to an attorney in the draft that document for a soft funded trust. That document is then approved by Social Security and -- in the Medicaid jurisdiction in which the person lives. But for the pooled trust, that is already done. The only thing you need to do to establish an account within a pooled special needs trust is to complete a Joinder agreement, the legally binding document that establishes your relationship or your loved ones relationship with the pool . As the nonprofit, our responsibility becomes managing each subaccount within that pool. You join the trust. What you have transferred in is what we have to work with during the process of managing your trust account. Of course you are going to have some interest earnings and dividends earnings . But for the most part, we are going to sit down with you and create that quality-of-life plan, create a budget. We are going to take a look at what your needs are so that we can best manage that account. It is a pool. It's as simple as that. This is for the Massachusetts trust -- a mass trust document as well as [ Indiscernible ] that is why they call it a pool.

Thank you Yolanda. Is there any effort being made to raise the eligibility age of onset, age 26 or younger ? There is some legislation call be ABLE age adjustment acts which would raise the age of onset up

to age 46. Time will tell how Congress deals with that and whether the momentum has been built behind it. There was also a question asked about , can an individual move funds from a trust to an ABLE Account [ Indiscernible - Intermittent Audio ] Or from an ABLE Account to a trust. Maybe Kelly could answer that one.

I think we answered a moment ago, the question about moving something from a trust to an ABLE Account. Believe that can be done. This would not require any particular special authorization in the trust . It would be under the trustees -- trustee's normal discretion. From an ABLE Account to a trust , -- [ Pause ] -- The distribution from an ABLE Account have to be for a qualified disability expense . Moving the assets to a trust would not meet that criteria . I think it could be done depending on who has legal authority over the account. It is then just going to potentially be counted as an asset, even for just one month of the person with the disability. It could impact benefits some of these things kind of remained to be seen, depending on how these ABLE plans are written and as they start rolling out.

Thank you Kelly. Mark S a further comment.

I want to add on that -- Mark has a further comment. Want to add on that.

If you have a special needs trust on the side of that you don't need to do that. You don't need to make those changes. That is very important.

The other question I saw was if you set up a special needs trust, do you have to keep it? I do work with a lot of younger families who have a newly diagnosed child.

No, it's basically a tool that is available for whenever you might need it. If you don't need it, you don't have to have it here don't delay in doing it because you think your child might get better or get over whatever the disability is. It is a good bucket to have available because if there is a problem, it is open-ended can take assets from all different sources. That's what we recommend.

A related question was, if a child has a 529 account already, can you change that to a 529 ABLE Account . You can't change it but you can take funds from a 529 account and move them to an ABLE Account. No , according to the current roles, that would not be allowed because 5/29 have -- 529s are limited, college tuition, housing, books. You can't go that way. That's one of the limitations brother was another question asked about what if someone moves to another state. ABLE Accounts are portable and you have a choice of holding onto the account from your original state . That was taken up in the guidance from IRS and treasury. You could also select to put the money in an account in the new state. We have covered a lot of ground. I am watching the clock. I think we're just about done. We will continue to look at other questions that came in, try to build responses from our panelists . I want to thank each of our panel members today. A lot of good information was covered. Hopefully we have accomplished our objective and giving you

more to think about in making decisions about ABLE programs and accounts . As we mentioned , stakes -- states will be opening ABLE Accounts very soon . We do expect this to happen by this summer. You will be ABLE to find information about the ABLE Programs that are opening on the www ABLE NRC.org website . We appreciate the funders of the website right now, Bank of America, Wells Fargo, J.P. Morgan Chase, and intuition. And also First Bank of Nebraska , have all helped us to get this website it. we consider it an objective independent site to be ABLE to give you information . One thing is clear for today -- from today, there is a lot to learn and more to learn as programs open. We do expect to hold additional webinars this year. Look to the website for when that will be. We hope to bring forward those first few states that opened -- open ABLE Accounts on a webinar so that you can ask questions and hear directly from those programs about their unique features. We hope to have a future webinar that will feature people who have opened accounts so that you can hear from them , people in different circumstances, parents with young children, working age adults, grandparents, others who have come together to open an ABLE Account for someone that they are close to. Thank you today for joining us. This program will be archived on the ablenrc.org website . Please spread the word. This is such an important piece of legislation that was enacted and took almost 10 years. It offers transformative opportunities. Sometimes call it a down payment on independence and freedom . Changing expectations for people with disabilities, changing expectations for those around a person with a disability, to think bigger and broader about the quality of life. Thank you for joining us. We look forward to your using the website and being a part of this conversation nationwide. Have a great afternoon. Take care.

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