Please stand by for real time captions. >> [ Captioner unable to get audio as the Volusia website is down, please stand by ] >> I will show -- I will entertain a motion to pass the remaining agenda items. Any objections?

I will show that the motion passes.

Do me a favor and turn off all of your cell phones or put them on assignment. The first item is the state of the County address. Jason Davis?

Good morning everybody.

We have some people learning about the government, welcome. >> Is this is high as this goes? >> You have to love technology.

I am Jason Davis. My pleasure to bring you the 2016 state of the County address. I will start by recognizing my fellow County members. Working with six colleagues dedicated to make life better as the Volusia County citizen.

Pat Patterson is also the vice chair

Representative district 1.

The way that this is written a kind of threw me off.

Joyce Cusack at large, district 2, Joshua Wagner. Deborah Denys representing District 3. Doug Daniels district 4. And Fred Lowry is district 5.

Jim and his staff are the ones that make the counties Council vision a reality. This is truly a team effort. The first meeting in the newly renovated chambers, we have all kinds of new technology and it seems appropriate to review some of the accomplishments in 2015 and look at some of the future challenges.

Last month we welcomed JetBlue they start daily nonstop service from Daytona Florida to New York City. There was excitement and energy in the room almost 500 people took time of their busy days to celebrate the milestone, waving signs and breeding arriving passengers.

This is what turning the corner looks like. Here is a a few more examples of what turning the corner looks like. Taxable value, new roads for the second consecutive year I almost 6% countywide. More than $1.5 billion.

400 million-dollar expand should of the Daytona Raceway. One Daytona the 400 million-dollar retail facility entertainment and dining that will start across the street later this year.

100 million-dollar tanger is under construction. If you have not seen that you need to go by -- it has been there for about 3 weeks ago said they are almost halfway completed.

This is a larger development for the town center a part of a regional retail destination and expected to open up by Black Friday of this year. That is amazing. You can corrupt into applause at any time.

[ Laughter ]

The $85 million center in Daytona Beach and the manufacturing facility in Edgewater Florida are both up and writing -- running creating hundreds of new jobs for residents.

Florida hospital opened up a 11 million-dollar outpatient clinic. And a freestanding emergency department to better serve the health care needs of Southwest Volusia County, that is some pretty major accomplishments.

Nobody could imagined the projects a few years ago, they are reality today because the County Council is economic development its top priority. Last year the County Council and the city of Daytona approved $2.25 million grant on the town center and approved $200,000 in incentives to assist local businesses.

These businesses include frontier communications which open a $2.5 million second office, Tocqueville support services which is building a new corporate headquarters. Total quality logistics a leading freight brokerage firm which invested more than $500,000 in capital improvements. Total capital investment generated by the first projected to exceed $15 million and create as many as 255 total jobs. With a payroll of more than $9.5 million.

Go ahead --

[ Applause ]

These performance based incentives are not giveaways, each business must meet a specific job creation, wage criteria to qualify for tax refund

We work closely with the state to incest level of accountability, it is great to see that kind of results that community is capable of creating when we share a purpose on a common goal.

We continue to provide outstanding customer service, it has to be easy for folks to navigate the process of expanding a building or building a home. Is purpose of connect live, building permit Web portal.

All commercial as well as residential building planning and environmental applications are now online and admitted that electronically. Connect life can research properties, contractors and permits and submit code violations.

These activities can be done anywhere at any time from your computer, from your tablet, or from a smart phone. Eliminated the need to travel to a County office and saving residence time and money, if you get the we have employees who will walk you through the process. You want to be the easiest County important to do business with them we want to be the government gets results and delivers the best value for the dollar. 70% of your property tax dollars pay for public safety, sheriffs Department, court system, corrections, emergency services and medical services.

Biggest general fund respect that expense and and Virginia commissioners office that reason -- reduce crime by more than 30% since 2001. You have a beach safety Ocean rescue division that save more than 1800 people from the surf last year and they were named the states best beach patrol of 2015. Congratulations.

[ Applause ]

You also have ambulance service that has answered more than 86,000 calls for service, transported more than 51,000 people to medical facilities around Volusia County.

Public safety and economic development depend on effective road network and infrastructure, and relationship -- Scioscia impacts everything in our lives, emergency assistance, arriving on work on time and locating a new bid list -- a new business.

Unless it fills of cores -- then it will make headlines articles the -- it will make headlines but I will speak more. I will notes a few significant construction projects.

East Volusia County, Pioneer development District, State Department transportation join together to fund the $15 million extension between Airport Road and Pioneer Trail. The project is now underway, and Daytona Boulevard is being white from four lanes. At a cost of $10 million, moving forward on the $44 million bridge that will replace the Veterans Memorial Bridge. Expected to award construction contract and of February team meeting. -- 18 meeting. It will be the first of its kind in the entire state of Florida.

A special thank you to Josh are well Wapner -- thank you to Joshua Wagner.

Construction will start in a few months on the federal project replacement of the $4.2 million they road bridge. Acquired properties which will prove access by creating more than 600 million -- 600 new off the parking spaces.

We can open them for the public as soon as possible. Started a comprehensive renovation to upgrading rebuild a significant number of the County 100+ new walkover's, providing convenient public access for beachside neighborhoods.

The beach is without a doubt one of our most popular and treasured resources. Couple with many other recreational activities, these assets may Volusia County a great place to enjoy your leisure time. Almost 4000 -- 400,000 people enjoyed parks and trails and 2015.

Marine science Center sets a new attendance record of almost 100,000 visitors, a 13% jump since 2014. An increase of 102% since the center opened in 2002. >> We are close to finishing a design build contract on a $2.4 million -- 2.4 mile segment from much Avenue in orange city through blue Springs State Park. Defended by the Department of Transportation, report or million-dollar project will include pedestrian bridge over the railroad tracks. >> Making it more accessible cost -- and customer friendly. A new parks and trails mobile lab for smaller phones gives users interactive access to the County showcase and nature trails and historical sites and cultural amenities. Libraries continue to be technology help, 356,000 public access computers sessions and 233,000 Wi-Fi sessions took place last year in the library branches of staff presented more than 23,000 hours of technology instruction to the public.

We have four 3-D printers, so residents can learn how to make their own 3-D projects. 600 people have intended this series of instructional programs and labs.

Real-time bus departure information by using votogo. Writers can text and received a reply text about upcoming departures etc. departures etc. It is a text message enabled mobile phone out -- mobilephone. [ Coughing ]

These accomplishments are a few highlights from last year. There are more but I will focus on some of our challenges. The first is how we pay for the transportation infrastructure that we need to residents and visitors safe at the check new economic development.

Both now and in the future, a well-founded programmable ensure roads can be built when needed and properly maintained. Local funding ensures sources such as a gas tax and impact fee they have been flat for years and it will be not long before the county is out of roadbuilding is this. Last year talk about raising the sales tax to fund local transportation projects. It would require voter approval.

If passed it would generate as much as $37.4 million annually to be divided amongst the county as cities. Discussion faded some during the last few months that the issue is now being reviewed by elected officials. We have a serious problem with homelessness. At the last meeting that Council agreed to defer taking action on a temporary homeless camp to give city officials time to develop a shelter at the salvation army existing facility in [ Indiscernible ] Road, is that road correct?

I have heard different ways --

[ Indiscernible-low volume ]

Thank you.

This has since been accomplished, the county has not shied away from trying to address the concern. During the past 10 years the county government has spent $21 million for homeless prevention services. Adding almost $60 million through grants the county spent for supportive housing programs so the underprivileged heavies a decent and humane place to live.

We have focused a great deal of time and effort on paper and people from becoming homeless. If you have kept up with the news, the resident since you not always -- the residence do not always agree. Problems cannot be solved by one government it will take everyone working together -- differences can be pretty striking at times. We have at least one thing in common, Volusia County is our home.

Where we live, where we were, where we raise our families. -- Can you hear me?

>> We are responsible for creating our future, do you want to be a part of that restaurant are you ready to work hard to build it?

There are many ways to help, county and city governments and plenty of volunteer opportunities available. Also dozens of nonprofit groups, civic organizations, churches and the like that would welcome your assistance.

I challenge you to get involved, let your voice be heard. The part of the solution and not part of the problem.

In the closing the state of the county is good. We made it through the county's toughest economic challenges in decent shape. We have developed a strong financial stable government, members of the County Council Mr. penthouses, Joyce Cusack, Deborah Denys, Joshua Wagner and myself remain committed to promoting economic growth and meeting the needs of the community. Efficient and effective services.

I thank you for your time today, may God bless Volusia County and the United States of America.

Thank you.

[ Applause ]

Can I make a motion for a short recess so we can reset the chambers?

Any objections?

The motion will pass.

We will have a 10 minute recess. >> [ Session is on a 10 min recess and will return at 9:40 AM EST ] >> [ Captioner Standing By ] >> If the chambers could please come to order.

We will move onto item number 2. Retirements that we have coming up we will start with Kenneth Hunt and John Pasqualle .

Good morning citizens here and on the Internet I am Dave Byron it is my pleasure to introduce the to retiring employees -- 2 retiring employees.

If they would please come forward, Kenneth Hunt, John Pasqualle .

Good morning.

We are here today -- I know [ Laughter ] -- I am speaking to most of you all [ Laughter ]

It is great to be back in the chambers today. We want to say goodbye to one of the long-term members. It is a hard part of the job. It is bittersweet when you say goodbye to people who have done so much for so many years. And making Volusia County Sheriff's Department the great organization that it is. We are proud to see them leave in retirement and has good news best good days -- good days left. Kenneth Hunt.

He transferred to Volusia County Sheriff's office on November 13, 1989 as a deputy said that classifies you as a serve and turf [ Laughter ].

Assigned to judicial services, civil and court. During his 26 year with the Volusia County Sheriff's office. Received the following letters of accommodation, 1991 -- outstanding job performance . 1995, criminal justice award for dedicated to ensure domestic violence victims are protected, children are safe. 1996 the Sistine inmate in distress who attempted suicide by hanging in herself. It -- 2011 medal of merit for 25 years of service.

Example of evaluations. Receiving compliments on several occasions for community relations. Using good judgment. Arriving early and stays late. Treating prisoners firmly at fairly.

Positive image to the public. A team player.

Asset to the department.

Kenneth Hunt retired January 29, 2016. And we will miss him. The fine job that he has done representing us mainly in the courts. Doing his daily work without fanfare but standing up to the plate and making Volusia County a better place to live and that Sheriff's Department better.

I will turn over to Kenneth Hunt so he can say a few words.

Glad to help the citizens of Volusia County. Thank you.

[ Applause ] >> That was it?

Okay.

Deborah Denys.

Thank you. I think your short comment reflects just what you do and who you are.

I listen when we have retirements and those who have served especially that with -- with a link that you have. What struck me as the sheriff was reading accommodations and annual reviews. Kept on growing every year, it was stronger -- longer. Team effort, good judgment, it is not how you start but how you finish.

Through the years you grew into a crescendo of representing Volusia County and representing the citizens. Well done, you started strong and finished strong.

Joyce Cusack.

Officer Hunt. Honor to have you to protect us I want you to know that on behalf of the citizens of Volusia County, I think you. I think you -- thank you for being there for the

Of caring not in words but in your deeds. Just your presence indicates that you are a man of strong integrity. I applaud you today, thank you for your service and I wish you well as you journey into your next phase of your life. You do what you want to do and let the others take care of the business that you have so diligently done and taken care of.

We thank you and God bless you.

Joshua Wagner.

I have a different relationship with him.

I always felt safe being a prosecutive -- prosecutor when you are at the courthouse how many people comfortable back in a little room. I was a defense attorney and a prosecutor, I can tell you many times was that back and said -- this is messed up with other words in the middle. I want to thank you, I have always had concerns about the courthouse especially the Annex. But you have done a great job keeping everybody is safe. I have been in there when stuff is gone down that you have been an amazing. Enjoy your retirement, I am really happy for you.

Thank you very much for your service. We have never met, thank goodness that means I never went to jail [ Laughter ]

[ Indiscernible-low volume ]

You said that, I just said -- I never went. I visited once [ Laughter ]

The chief was there she was given me the tour.

Be in law enforcement icy with the correction officers do it takes a special breed of man to do that. I had to be out on the road and driving out on patrol. Please enjoy your retirement, I know that we will see you -- with that I guess we need to take some photos?

We will take a short recess while we do some photos. >> Okay. New technology. It will take some time to get used to all of the buttons up here.

Mr. James Dinneen.

We have one more retirement.

I am sorry --

Do not mess with the firemen.

[ Applause ]

That is right.

[ Laughter ]

It is not my birthday, this is the second time that they have applauded me.

The final retiree this morning is James Dinneen with Volusia County fire rescue. Please come forward with any fire members -- family members that he may have. >> Just really quick before I turn it over to chief Smith. I want to say a few things I have worked with John Pasqualle . He started his 30 year career back in August 1985. We have a large representation of division of forestry. He formulated the fire Walker team and also the hazmat team. I wanted to point that out and congratulate him myself. We lose a guy who has dedicated his entire life to Volusia County and the things that he has done.

Key and I often walk out late together and he gives me a hard time about things he would like to have been. He is a real professional and a highly skilled individual works closely with the state and being in wildfires is one of the biggest threats in Volusia County . Using his experience is a big blow we are happy that he is going to be able to retire.

James Dinneen -- John Pasqualle, is your family here?

Let's show the support for this guy.

That is all right. That is okay.

Yes on this side -- over here. Yes.

I want everybody to see how much support you have as a firemen.

Only family of here, how many kids do you have?

None.

Brothers and sisters.

Members of the Council, County leadership. Throughout his career John has been 18 player -- a team player working diligently to develop those around him externally and internally. He is strengthened the team. Report publishes that reflect the kind of employee that he was. Rookie of the year, 1985. Firefighter of the year in 1986 firefighter of the year 1994, tenant 1999. Florida birth certificate in 2000. Fire Walker in -- of the year in 2002, a battalion chief in 2004. >> Became the mitigation officer in 2011. John's aphis were influential of being the southern era to Volusia County. From that we have been able to get more experience in training that we never would have been able to add a huge financials the means. Increasing operational capability and the wildland urban interface environment. Let all of Volusia County that John Pasqualle walked it when he walks the line.

I have to follow that?

[ Laughter ]

[ Applause ] >> I could not have done any of this without my loving wife and family. It has been an honor.

I have seen a lot of changes in the department and the Council. Ups and downs but I would not trade it for the world, I love this place and the people. And I want to say thank you.

I have done --

[ Applause ]

[ Applause ] >> Deborah Denys Good morning chief. Thank you I will make one comment I read your summary, leadership skills and experience. You started strong and finished strong again. It takes a village but it takes a family as well. At the end you finished strong. Enjoy your retirement.

Thank you.

Chief you will need to step up closer to the microphone, nobody can hear you.

Let me tell you, from what I have heard very distinguished career from what I have seen. Quite a support group that you have, I'm glad that you came and used it at next to him to support him for this.

We are going to miss you.

I am going to miss everybody.

With that, we will take a few moments for photo opportunities.

Unfortunately it is only him and his wife.

If you come up here we will go ahead and take photos. Thank you very much for your service once again.

[ Applause ] >> Okay, thank you.

It was pointed out to me -- chief is it true at 2 years old you said you wanted to be a firemen?

And he just said yes. That is amazing.

[ Applause ] >> [ Pause ] >> Ladies and gentlemen we will have to take all of the festivities out of the door. You can go to the left right here.

I will have to have some order, we are still working.

With all of the new technology that we have had to come up we had been fumbling along with technology today. James Dinneen, tell us what we are doing with the technology.

I want to call Jim Baker. What I want to emphasize this was not an improvement that was something that was a static for our comfort or four links. The building was commissioned in 1988 and the technology photos -- was from 1988.

We need to make sure it was stable and worked and dependable. If you sat in here, I got support in which I appreciate from the supporters at that time. If they are going to come here they have to interact. We need to make sure that the Council can interact with the citizens and each other in a way that everybody can see it transparently. The capacity is 275 and we do not have nearly as many seats.

What you were back there you could not see or hear very well and the only screen that you can see is this -- you could not see D tell on the screen, if you are off on the angle the you would not be able to see. For people to present was issues, what was frustrating to me. I thought there was new technology that will allow people to's take and the lighting was so bad. It was hard for people to read things in the audience or look at stuff.

Both councilmembers and citizens and we have something on the screen like we have now -- you have people saying, what is that number?

It became hard. We have systems now where you can actually write on the screen and draw circles -- would be see if I could do it right here.

Let me see -- you have to hit annotate.

We can make the changes ourselves and do anything that we want. We have the capability for the citizens. They can point exampling to something so they do not have to worries -- worry. That we will not be able to understand what they are talking about. Then we have people who love to clowned around [ Laughter ]

Bottom line, you will see we incorporated technology the that will make it better for the citizens. We put new carpet in and it was filthy after all of these years. We took the monitors out and we tried to Matt the desk back here and give more desk top space. We change the lighting. How we connect the downstairs for the overflow. >> We spent the money almost all on the technology to make this a better place for citizens to interact in the government and will comfortable. It was not just about aesthetics.

The old systems everything was hardwired in and you could not make changes. This is modular and asset technology changes, we can make the changes.

In this case you are making it better for people to participate about better for the councilmembers and for the presentations.

Today we will find -- try some experience that's the Council requested of me numerous times, we will be streaming audio live and video. Today one of the things that I will tell you. Everything worked when we did the run-through. Now we have to tweak it. We had so many people that are streaming online, is pushing some of the bandwidth.

Today we will not use the video because the quality is not good enough. Some of the experiments that we will try today -- we will see if it works for me have all of the people streaming right now.

I believe what will result from the investment that we made, other city commissions and other governments will clamor for the changes that we see here. >> In reality, I was silent because I have learned there is nothing to be learned from the second kick of a horse so I kept silent [ Laughter ]

Two-month timeline was risky but sometimes you have to risk it to get the biscuit [ Laughter ]

And old Indian proper medical something like this. Everything will be all right in the end and if it is not yet all right it is not yet the end.

We are at the end of the project. And everything is all right, not by chance that is by design. I would be remiss if I did not take the opportunity to recognize those people made the project all right.

Brian is the engineer of record on the record. Dana Smith was the architect. Matt Hall is the general contractor. Integration factory is the contracted. County staff that I want to thank -- Kevin Cain was the project manager. He dealt with all of our worries and we had a lot of worries. Action is a worries most worst enemy. Key kept the project on time, and on budget.

I think you Kevin for your hard work. And the facilities team headed up by James Woody. They saved money on the project. >> Diligence is the mother of good luck and the IT staff added a lot of diligence to the project. I want to thank you Pam Wolski and Tabatha Freeman in purchasing.

Concerning project highlights, I told you what we were going to do back in November. I will tell you what we did. We installed new LED lighting with controls, crèche drawn controls for audio and video. New and additional audio speakers, four HD monitors and eight HD projection screen which mute projectors. >> We included LED dimmable lights. We installed movable microphones where you can move them out of your way. Cable management system to accommodate future technology upgrades. We widen the doorways for ADA accessibility and test screen tablets with annotation features. Additional wireless access points throughout the chambers.

Media outlets for news channel cameras, 88 accessible podium with all of the technology connections. Replace the Council chambers carbonate and repainted the chambers. Replace all of the technology connections in the first four training rooms and added two monitors.

That is a lot of work for 2 months, one thing I've learned from the project. You do not been average people to be phenomenal. I am so proud of the people I worked alongside. The phenomenal people that transport the project from a vision to reality, with that I will open it up for questions or comments.

Experiment -- we are going to try and see how it works. Are you ready?

If somebody came down to the chambers, instead of having the notes with the iPad. The person wants to show you their own pictures. Jeff, --?

Cool.

That is on your phone?

They can do it off of their iPhone, iPad, -- is somebody came down here and you had an issue with someone next to another neighbor. Too close to my house etc. they took a cell phone video, they can put it right on the monitor for you.

I do not think that anybody has this technology. It will make it easier to understand people's issues. Say for example you would ask something specifically.

You can put it on the monitor right in front of us.

Are you going to try the iPad as well?

My question is -- would you do this, right now probably 100 different cell phones and nobody can do it at the same time. There is password protection?

A keeper of the gate?

[ Indiscernible-low volume ]

You have to be on the record.

State your name and occupation.

Jeff, community information. There is a individual pass court that is -- passcode handed out so everything is secure.

Brian our consultants trying to login with his iPad.

The one thing to resolve, finding a way to capture things as people put them on the screen for public record. We have to figure out a way to capture for our record so we have it.

There is no instant access, the system has Firewall?

Yes you have to have the password to do this. And as well, they have control. They are the masters of controlled even the microphones here or anything here that I doing. They could kill it.

[ Captioners Transitioning ] >> We will be able to access this. What I would like us to be able to do someday is we can put people on the monitor and you can see them here so they would basically be in the meeting. What I would like to be able to do is be able to have them do it down there and you could see them on the monitor. That way if we go past our capacity , people could still feel like they are in the meeting. This is just another level. It also allows us to use the training room for other meanings -- meetings. I hope everyone feels that this was worth the effort and that we got our money's worth. I think we spent this money correctly so that people can understand. As I said, I have never seen anybody -- we may be unique in this technology. If not unique am a it's very rare to have this technology in chambers -- in the chambers. This will clearly set the standard. I think a lot of citizens will ask for this to be done when they want to speak with their officials.

Only six of us were in the Council and you would only tell us -- you would not tell us which six .

It has been changed [ Laughter ] I thought we only had six again but why have it be the same person. [ Laughter ] This site is protected.

We will talk benefits later. Thank you.

[ Laughter ]

I have one button that I haven't tried yet.

The red button?

Yes, I should have done it when Ben was there .

No further comments?

Thank you. We appreciate all of the effort. I have seen that lesser projects take twice as long.

Item 3 come a discussion of the Volusia growth management commission for potential recommendation for change.

I would like to speak with the Council. If you remember Mr. Daniels asked if we would like to have a discussion. Correct me if I'm not saying this correct. About whether the Council wanted to accept changes of Volusia growth management commission . And what you wanted to engage in a discussion on whether or not you wanted to do with us directly -- I will leave it at that and let Mr. Daniels explain further.

Thank you. [ Laughter ] Do I get three minutes? The reason why is that the story is going around that we had taken a position, and we really have not. I would prefer that we not. I don't think it's our place. I have made some suggestions to them individually but we as a group, I don't really know as a group -- it is not something -- I think we should make it clear that we haven't made -- taken a position on it.

Thank you. Mr. Husak? -- Ms. Cusack ?

Thank you Mr. chair. I was asking if we could have an update from the charter review commission as it relates to Volusia Growth Managemant Commision . I think that would give us the opportunity to look at where they are in the process before they will bring their recommendations to us . We will just see them at that time -- to see whether or not we need to make changes. I think we are on track and have hit it in the right direction , the charter review and the citizens -- we will be carefully watching the process and deal with that as it is presented to us per Ms. Cusack request of me, --.

Per Ms. Cusack's requested me, what they have done so far to request the issue of VGMC , the one thing that the Council did instruct me to do was to send them a note saying that the Council did think we should discuss VGMC. Tammy can walk you through so that you are up to speed on what has been done so far.

Good morning, budget administrative assistant. We do have members of the charter review commission in the audience. I wanted to bring that to your attention. As you know, we had started off the process with listening sessions where people spoke and they were in September. In October, the Volusia Growth Managemant Commission actually had gone over a packet of information presented by staff come up planning staff. We did a big overview on the history of the GMC. -- VGMC . Then on December [ Indiscernible ] we receive that information. We provided you with a CD after that meeting. That had all of the materials that were discussed on the December 14 meeting. We had various speakers in attendance to discuss that subject matter. Then we also established a subcommittee at that time. We subcommittee was established. We began our subcommittee meeting in January. The fee GMC -- VGMC was in attendance at that meeting. We had open dialogue and we give them direction and asked them for their recommendation of changes. Today they would like to present some recommendations. They had a meeting on January 21 with one of their subcommittees. It is called the personal operations and procedures committee. They discussed a lot of the language and came up with rules and regulations and so forth and presented that back to us on our last charter meeting . During that meeting, we gave them some additional dialogue and we have asked them to go back and review that as a whole again. They are planning on doing that today . We have the mother subcommittee meeting to discuss that. We will meet again at the subcommittee meeting and take that input there and make changes. We will have that dialogue between today and February 24 Wednesday will meet as a body of Volusia Growth Managemant Commission as a whole to go over those recommendations part during that time, we will meet one more time. The charter review commission will meet again on March 14 , which I am sure we will discuss this subject matter at another time. We have had opportunities for a lot of dialogue within the community , within both parties the VGMC enter charter Davidian I would be happy to pass along any information.

Thank you. Mr. Patterson ?

Thank you Mr. chair. As the dinosaur here who has sat on that commission , someone who came here from that commission many years ago . I made a point of learning as much as I could about this two I find it interesting. I have always felt that the role of the charter of the commission was that. I think everyone of us could go over and make suggestions, the everyday citizen could as well. I think it is best left alone. I agree with Mr. Daniels . Let them do their work. You can imagine. If we said we wanted this on the charter review commission there would be a line outside the door and out through the breezeway of people wanting to get involved in the charter commission. I think it is best to let them do their job. That is my dinosaur opinion.

Thank you Mr. dinosaur .

I am going to speak to Mr. Patterson. I agree with you. Says there are commission members in the audience, I would like to make one comment. I am on record, if I could fund them for one dollar, I would be happy with that. I am not happy with the protocols that they have used to stop

growth. I am not. I have not been secretive about this. I will not make this a recommendation or suggest this from the Council. However, here is a red flag that I see with the VGMC as it relates to County business . There was no appeal. They are the final decision-makers . If there is appeal, it has to go to civil court. I think years ago when things were different back in the dinosaur days, that served as well. I am sorry Mr. Patterson. In today's age, I don't think that we should have municipalities are governments have to resort to civil court for remedy. I just don't think that is right. In zoning issues, we have the appeal , different governing boards. If they want to appeal, the have the ability to appeal to the government that established it which is the County Counsel. I would strongly suggest that if there is one change, since it is not going to go away, I don't believe , that we strengthen it with allowing an appeal process to the County Counsel to at least remedy what I think is a disservice to this process. Obviously, I don't think there will be support among my colleagues to make a motion, but I would like to see discussion among the Council members. We need to have room for appeal. Thank you . That is my two cents. We can entertain this but I don't think it will pass. I at least wanted to comment.

As a councilmember, it is your right to make a motion. Would you like to make a motion? We can do that. Is there a motion .

I will indeed, Mr. chair, make a motion. It would be my suggestion to send to the charter review commission to at least add the appeal process for finality to the VGMC process. That is my only request, that we allow the group process to work by adding an appeal .

We do have a motion and I have a second for Mr. Wagner. The motion is that we come -- have an appeal process to the VGMC .

To the County Counsel.

That we are the appeal process. There is a second by Mr. Wagner. You have the floor.

Would you be okay putting a noted not to say either get rid of it altogether or have an appeal process?

Yes, I am and my original motion. [ Overlapping Speakers ]

This is just a suggestion.

It is a good one.

Now the motion has been rescinded and amended to include either to disband it or to adjust the appeal process. Do you approve this? >> I am not going to be here when this goes through. It will be more work for the County Counsel, at a minimum. I think the appeal process at a minimum , would be good.

Mr. Patterson?

[ Indiscernible - speaker too far from microphone ] I am not going to support this. It is because I feel the charter review commission should be the ones to make that decision. I think if Ms. Denys would like to go to the charter commission make a recommendation, that would work. I don't think we should say what we would like to see or not. [ Indiscernible - low volume ] I can't set for the motion. I think it is a charter review commission issue . We would like them to do their job.

Thank you. Would you like to put a place in the charter where we create the charter? It is in here somewhere.

It would be article 11 but I don't have the charter in front of me.

I do.

[ Indiscernible - low volume ] That is finance. I wanted to look at the creation of the review board. I just wanted to do that. Maybe it's 13.

I'm sorry. I don't have it in front of me. My screen just went blank. I think Mr. Daniels was next.

I have nothing.

There we go. Mr. Daniels .

Thank you Mr. Chairman. I agree with Mr. Patterson. It is a charter view issue. It is not really one of ours. I think it's something we should stay out of. And with the substance of it, we really ought to think of where we are. We are in a state where the legislature is saying they want to get out of the growth management business and the local government needs to take that up. This is the body that has done that. That is one that has always done this now we're getting to the point where it is more needed than it ever was. It is not a time to get rid of it. Is the time to maybe revamp it , maybe to change the way the leadership is selected I would like to see it expanded . I was on the elected official Roundtable for a while. I wouldn't mind seeing this combined with something that would be a body where issues -- County up -- countywide issues could be brought up. We need someplace where we can get together and talk. It would require a revamping of the membership totally. I don't think bringing this to us is a good idea at all. What that does is it makes it a County Council body. If this is an argument between two cities, do County Councilman make that decision?

I don't think so. I don't think we should be involved. I think we should stay out of that. I do think we need it. I don't think we should be of the appellate body. It is a charter review issue . I would be interested to see what you guys come up with. Thank you.

Ms. Cusack?

Thank you Mr. Chair . I am in agreement with Mr. Daniels and Mr. Patterson . I just don't think that as a governing body , the County

Counsel, we should be the appeal process -- processors. This is not a good idea. We do have the charter review and it would be prudent upon us to let them do their work and give us a report and let the system decided changes and agree or disagree with those changes. I think we should step back and it shouldn't be left up to the seven of us or 7 of someone to make that decision. That is what you call micromanaging the process, in my estimation. I don't agree with that. I would not support this motion. Thank you Mr. Chair. >> You have a comment, Fred. Everyone else's cycling through. I would like to hear your comment.

A lot of things have been set. I like the idea of having a citizens group. I do think that there is some witness in the appeal process . I think Mr. Daniels mentioned this, looking at the appeal process and selection process. I would not want to have this at this time. >> I have the charter appear and I am looking through the charter review. This is one of those cases where we are required to clear this review committee. This is one of those cases where we have created this charter and said, okay, you guys know what is going on here. We have leadership that has been appear. We have some people here that actually wrote the original charter. I think it is not our job as a body to micromanage this. Our words carry a lot of weight with people. We have to be careful with that. When you have a group of the County Counsel saying, charter committee, we want you to do this , that carries a lot of weight. Everyone says, okay. I have seen it happen where the Council says we would like to see this done, and they go into it. I think this has created -- we have final say about this because after it goes to the review process, it comes to the Council. We have three public hearings and then we put it on the ballot. I am reading directly from the charter. It comes back to us with all changes and we have a review process. We do have a kind of a say in that. ISSO right here.

-- It says so right here.

It is section [ Name Indiscenible ] [ Overlapping Speakers ] after receipt of the charter review commission recommendation, Council shall conduct a series, not less than three public hearings on the recommended changes to the charter and shall therefore schedule a referendum on the proposed charter amendment at the next general election. That means we get to see it but we don't get to change it.

You don't get to change it.

Correct. We will see it. I believe -- Doug, you and I don't agree on a lot of things. This one I am going to agree with you on. [ Laughter ] I remember that. Don't do that. That was no Burrell -- Milton Berle. I believe it is our right as a citizen to do this but as an elected body, I don't think it's appropriate for us to do this. Speaking to the motion, I do agree with the motion. I do agree with the fact that I believe that we need to have some sort of appeal process . I have heard that time and time again. I have had countless phone calls about this. I have said, appeal this. There is no process. I agree with the process but I don't agree with us telling them to do that. I think it needs to be , we can recommend it individually, which I have done. I think Mr. Daniels, you have . I encourage any and all of you guys to go to these

committee meetings and recommend your changes. They are listening to all citizens. I do agree with the motion but it is the process that I have a problem with. I think it should be with the individual. I can't support the motion but not because it's not a good motion. It is because it is a conflict with our own charter, as a body, to tell them what to do. That is my feeling. Ms. Denys, you have a . My final comments, I want to go back -- you have the floor.

My final comments, I want to go back to the [ Indiscernible ] back in the day every County used to have a VGMC -- a GMC. Guess how many there are now? One, we are the last one.

It is not true that everyone had previously but we are the only ones that have it now.

They went away when Governor Scott implemented the Department of economic opportunity . They came down in this whole issue cannot. This has a rich history . The reason the counties that used to have them don't have them anymore is because this is a redundancy. GMC is a redundancy and hurts growth. It helps -- it hurts development and growth. It is another level of bureaucracy. Anyone doing business in Volusia County has to do this. You don't go anywhere else. We are talking economic development. Mr. Chair, we are I -- emphasizing economic development. There are some tough decisions that have to be made. I am not talking about micromanaging. I'm suggesting a recommendation. I think that is within our purview as counsel to do.

To make a recommendation?

Yes. We are not talking micromanaging. We are not bringing the hammer down. But I think, yes, does what we say have weight? It does. At the same time, let's go back to what you said about the situation with the VGMC. When you have numbers with weighted votes, -- we have members of the VGMC that have the higher weight with the population in stopping the project. This may so delay it with the plutocracy -- bureaucracy. I have a problem with that. I think it is wrong. I think the way it is weighted is wrong. Do I want to expanded, Councilman Daniel's? Absolutely not work -- absolutely not. Go back and read the minutes of the VGMC . They were finding a reason to even meet . They were doing sunshine law just to fill up time. I am familiar with what is happening. My motion is going to die. I understand that. I don't believe it is micromanaging . I think we need an appeal process and I think the way it has been allowed to occur in the past for Volusia County in stopping certain developments and economic development opportunities and using VGMC as the avenue to do it, is just wrong. I am going to be watching this going forward . I will probably be a little bit more engaged. I will put it that way. Counsel, this is a problem. It is a problem going forward. I now call the question.

There is a call for the question. All of those in favor of call for the question -- Sir? Actually she rescinded the call. She rescinded the

motion and restated the motion with the amendment. Mr. Wagner also agreed.

[ Indiscernible - speaker too far from microphone ] She rescinded her motion, restated her motion with the amendment included. It's like having a motion to make all three screen. No, I reason that. Now I want to make all -- all trees green. Know I rescind that. Now I want to make all trees green with an amendment.

It would have to be up to us to make the vote. . There is still a call for the question. This is a call for the amendment. All those in favor of the amendment which changes the motion to either remove the VGMC are make us -- or make us the final appeal . That is the amendment to the motion stated by Mr. Wagner. All those in favor of that, please signify by saying I -- aye . Who is in favor?

We have two . The motion fails 2 -5 . Now we have the next motion which is to make us the appeal body for VGMC. Please raise your hand if you are in favor. All of those opposed -- that would be 4. The motion fails 3-4. I just don't think it is us.

For the record, can we please state [ Indiscernible ]

The amendment to the motion was -- I can't hear you .

The amendment for the motion, Ms. Denys and Mr. Wagner were for Max and balance were against.

The motion had Deb, Fred, and Josh as the people in favor.

And I motion for [ Indiscernible - low volume ]

It is so granted. >> We are done with that. Are there any further comments on this particular issue. Ms. Cusack ?

[ Indiscernible - speaker too far from microphone ] Thank you Mr. Chair. For future reference, I think when we have things that we disagree with and would like to see included or excluded from our charter process, we need to go to the charter review commission. When we do see the final results of the review, we will have a final look . This is an important piece that we must be mindful of. The citizens, by referendum will approve or disapprove this. I think their life -- there lies the government of the people. Thank you Mr. Chair.

[ Indiscernible - low volume ] [ Laughter ] The next order of business is item number 4 comedy vacation portion grant of the utility easement , vote for public hearing. Do we have anyone to speak? Gerald Brinton do you want to bring this?

I am sorry about that.

Are we on item 4?

Yes. Let's open up the public hearing resolution, vacation a portion of drainage and utility easement, Sandpiper Forest Subdivision , Map Book 44 , page 25. The petitioners are James Batenchuk and Lee Batenchuk . You have the floor .

Thank you Mr. Chair and council members. [ Indiscernible - speaker too far from microphone ] Of a 10 foot utility easement [ Indiscernible - speaker too far from microphone ]

Hold on one second. We are having an audio issue.

[ Pause ]

Can you try again, Mr. Brinton ?

Sorry, it was my fault.

[ Indiscernible - low volume ]

If you would start from the beginning --

This is a request from James Batenchuk and Lee Batenchuk to abandon to have feet of a 10 foot easement that on the back of their property. It is 10 feet and the power company has requested that they retain 7 1/2 feet so that they can maintain an existing powerline. While they would like all of it abandoned, they are requesting 2 1/2 feet so they can expand their pool deck and the screen area. You can see it here in the photograph , the black line showing where it would be. The adjacent property owners were contacted , --. The two on either side had no objection. The one on the backside does object. Staff has looked at it , the privacy fence , it has minimal impact. Step would recommend approval. -- The staff would recommend approval.

Is there any other staff report on this? Okay. We will go from staff report , and close staff report and open up to public comment. Is there any public comment?

No Mr. Chair.

We will close public on the. Motion approved. Do I have a second?

I have a second for Mr. Lowery .

Am I missing something that I am not seeing here is that there's a reason?

The statement to the staff was that they felt it would create more noise for them .

2 1/2 feet? Obviously they do not like their neighbor.

My point on this is they are not here . This is the time to be here to discuss the matter if they haven't objection. They should be here. I am like you Mr. Wagner. I am looking at it and saying, what is the

difference between extending the fence or having someone will find -- someone walk behind? I don't see a problem. No further discussion? All those in favor please signify by aye . All of those opposed -- so carried.

Item number 5, resolution, abandonment and transfer of interest in a portion of prescriptive teenage canal -- drainage canal known as the B-14 canal and the Daytona Beach area. Mr. Woods the attorney for the international Speedway Corporation, are you present?

Yes.

You have the floor.

Thank you. As you read, this is a request from the international Speedway Corporation to abandon any interest that we may have to canal that's on the property where they are developing [ Indiscernible ] you can see in green, it is referred to as B-14 canal. Their design has incorporated the drainage that would go into that into their overall development. We have reviewed it carefully from the drainage standpoint and storm water. We have decided -- determine there is no public purpose for retaining that existing . Staff recommends to counsel to approve this, releasing all prescriptive rights and other -- any other interests the county would have in this . If the county does have any interest, it would refer back to the property owner which is International Speedway Corporation. Thank you Mr. Chair.

Thank you. Is there any other staff report on this matter? I am seeing on. We will open up public participation. Do you have nothing to say Mr. with? -- Mr. Woods? Is there any public participation?

Only if there are questions .

There may be questions. We will close the public participation section and open up the Council discussion. Mr. Daniels, you have the floor.

Move for approval.

I still -- I second it.

Mr. Daniels, you still have the floor.

Let's get it done.

Mr. Patterson, did you have any questions or comment ask -- ? We are motioning and moving. All those in favor please signify by aye . All those opposed -- so carried.

Carried unanimously. Item number 6, SunRail Phase two update by the Florida Department of Transportation. We usually have a walk through. The DOT has provided us with a general update and jurisdiction [ Indiscernible ] elected officials thought there -- that it would be

valuable to the quaint -- acquaint the elected body with the agreement. The second presentation is an update that we get on a routine basis and we had provided for questions to deal TMA will address those regarding operating financial issues -- DOT and they will address those regarding operating financial issues.

I am Noranne Downs with the Florida Department of Transportation. I am with the program manager. [ Indiscernible - low volume ]

We can't hear you.

How is that?

That is better.

I am sorry. We have two presentations. One is answering questions that county staff has said we will go over first. This is the Volusia County Council agreement review.

First is this one.

First is going to be the Volusia County Council , which is the questions that your staff had asked us to prepare first. Secondly is what we were going over with all of our commuter rail funding partners as well as other interested agencies , which is the agreements briefing, which gives you an update from when we started to where we are at now. That's to get everyone hearing the exact same thing with all of our funding partners. We will start with Lucia County Counsel -- Volusia County counsel. Let's go over the ridership .

[ Pause ] >> Most of you remember when we started May 1, 2014, we had free ridership for two weeks . You could hardly move and you could see that we had over 11,000 passengers per day. After the two weeks, we show our average daily boardings from May 2014 through December 2014 -- summer 2015 which is about 86% of the projected number of 4300 boardings per day. For start a project, that is not that. As you know DeBerry is one of our best ridership numbers. We will now go to ridership trends. This shows a difference between 2014 and 2015. As you can see, we are talking in August, the summer months and September, October, November, December, increase from last year to this year in the last . months is up about 12% . We are going to be talking about , a little later, some of the means and methods that we used. Once we started the transit system, it is a commuter rail . This means people are coming in from the outside and going in to their destination. This is also a light rail. You see what you are going to get and then you tweak it.

The next slide is going to the annual boardings. As you can see it is 14% of the overall boardings for DeBerry. Stanley Grove in Orange County is big as well. Winter Park is big as well. The two disappointments that we felt we would have fighter ridership on would be the two hospitals. We have worked very hard with the hospitals to tweak our schedules. As you know, hospitals is to have three different shifts . Now there are many different shifts. We are tweaking the schedules with the hospitals to get more ridership hospitals. We are working on that.

The next slide shows DeBerry station ridership. [ Laughter ] You can see our average daily boardings there from May 2014 right up until the 439 in December 2015 -- right up into 439 boardings in December 2015. It's 3 to 630 -- 3:00 to 630 -- sixpack 30 [ Indiscernible ] our operations staff -- we added the night train as a pilot program which arrived I believe back in DeBerry in the evening. It was pretty good ridership. We have also heard other folks saying try to 1:00 train and see if you can get better ridership there. We are always trying to increase ridership. That increases fees and offset the cost. Right now we are part leading -- we're piloting a 1:00 train . We will continue that one train to see . Some people asked for a 2:00 train but that would take another eight hour shift. We can't afford that. We are trying to stick to the budget. That is why we didn't night train and now a 1:00 train. -- That's why we did at night train and now a 1:00 train.

You also asked us to give an update on the DeBerry station update. The various one of our best stations. The parking lot is averaging -- remember they were built for about 20 years -- they are averaging about 65% full on a daily basis. Sometimes it gets up to 80%. The department looked at that with the increasing ridership at DeBerry. They started embarking upon a design to expand the parking lot. We didn't have to buy additional right-of-way. This right-of-way was bought with the original track from FPL . The 2.74 acres that you see on your screen -- on your map, is actually where the pond was going to be located. During the design of the parking lot, we actually piped the water over to the existing DOT pond on the east side of 1792 . We are at 100% design. We are putting together the RFT -- RFP , request for proposal with the advertisement anticipated in early March and the expansion date for June. We should have that expansion of the parking lot completed in January 2017.

You can now see this closer on this slide. We have worked with the Volusia County staff on the design as well as the landscape to make sure it is within the requirements of Volusia County. Next slide.

One of the other items that staff wanted us to give you an update on was the budget. Secretary Downes had sent a letter last year saying this information for the fiscal year 2014 and 2015 with the budget being 24.4 million [ Indiscernible ] for farebox recovery and operating other revenue sources. Our 2020 and 2021 projections for when the local government takes over would be about $49 million in operation costs and other related costs. -- Were $8 million. They wanted to give -- us to give an update on the budget for fiscal year 2016. This is an approximate between July and December. This is $19 million with about $3 million [ Indiscernible - low volume ] Next slide.

In terms of Phase two N., we are at a point where we have 30% design plans for the track, the signals -- [ Indiscernible ] and we could put the design [ Indiscernible - low volume ] In terms of the funding, as you know the agreement, we would hope would be to get 50% federal funding and 25% state funding. Right now we are on our third -- since 2004 in first talking about rail. We are on our third bill. The bills

have changed a little bit. As Federal transit administration had us break it into pieces, there was not a funding source that could be applied at the MAP-21. The fast act is there now. We are working with the federal government to see if there is any particular funding that we can apply . We will be meeting with them into we can happen see what our options are. The hopes are that we come up with some sort of federal funding , one way or another, to finish this project. We do have your other funding partners in here, chairman Bruno had to leave . He was here before you. He was in support of finishing the whole 62 miles. Also Commissioner Bob Gilardi attends on the commuter rail commission. We also had both NGOs and TPO's here -- MPOs and TPO's here.

In terms of Phase three, -- -based 3, this is to get some real -- SunRail to the international airport. This is in the study phase right now. You can see this on the map. This alignment is actually within a real alignment that is called be state Spur . There is a Spur that heads off of the mainline. It comes off the Spur and goes to the airport property where the [ Indiscernible ] has set aside land for 5 rail tracks. They are in the process of building the facility right now. We are in the what the DOT calls the environmental documentation phase . We are doing and assessment right now and we are going through those to see what potential cost are and --. To date this is a different system. This is not included in the Interlocal agreement. Any discussions of funding partners or discussions of allocations for capital cost will have to be discussed . As of right now, there is no determination for any proposals on that. We are in the study phase in this project. Next slide.

This is to show you the intermodal terminal facility that I referenced earlier. It's actually in the process of being built right now. This is located at the new South terminal facility, which is just south of the North terminal that is there today. This is where all aboard Florida, what has been called the bright line, will come in. This is being built to go between Miami and the Orlando international Airport. This is where the SunRail Trachsel common as well.

[ Indiscernible - low volume ] The agreement states no later than 6 months prior to the expiration date of the funding date which is the 7 years. The governing board shall complete in implementation plan to ensure that the system will be up and running. January 19 , Mayor Dyer from Orlando who is the Chairman of this commission had scheduled -- had asked us to schedule briefings to go over with our funding partners and other agencies, this presentation. I would like to go into the 2nd presentation. It looks lengthy but I promise we went through this in 20 minutes. You can always hang onto this. We will try to get through it in 20 minutes. Is there are slide after that?

There is one last like. -- Last slide.

We went through that. One of the other questions was the rail envelope for Volusia County. This is the actual section . There was concern that there wasn't a rail envelope to get over to Daytona on I for -- I-4 . It is there and it is there to stay. We wanted you to see that and make sure that you knew it is there. Guesser?

-- Yes Sir

My screen is a little small. It's in the middle of the highway?

That is pretty big. Thank you. >> I have a question.

Ms. Cusack?

On page 8 , the local government control -- [ Pause ] -- Can you elaborate on that slide ? Management post FDO T ?

Online it is page 16 this one?

This one. The questions that we had come of the first ones for the presentation. It's on page 8 . It's after the intermodal training facility . Management post DOT.

Let's talk about that.

Absolutely, we can talk about that. Councilwoman, we can talk about it now. A lot of what that is , is in the whole briefing. I think of we go over this, the whole second presentation is exactly what we are talking about. It will go over this.

[ Indiscernible - speaker too far from microphone ]

Yes. It does talk about that. We will go through this now? Do want to talk about the advisory relationship?

Since this slide is here, let's talk about it.

For now, DOT is running the train operations for 7 years and we have a commuter rail commission that is set up to me quarterly and Chairman Davis represents Volusia County on that. I think it also moves over to Congressman Patterson. We are responsible for the operations of the whole train system. In 7 years it goes over to the commuter rail commission . After 7 years the DOT is advisory to them. Right now the commission's advisory to us. After 7 years we will be advisory to them.

There is no money involved in that?

No. -- Except for stuff that deal to would normally do -- DOT would normally do.

Right.

Like leasing agreements and things like that.

Thank you.

Now we will go over this. Presentation to -- presentation 2 --

You have 20 minutes. That is what you said, not me. [ Laughter ]

Next slide please. We are doing all of the rules. We are going to go over the history. What the agreement say and the budget update as well. Next slide.

This project -- not this particular project but rail has been talked about since 1992. We looked at alternatives between 2002 and 2004. 2004 is when it was under Secretary [ Indiscernible ] and Governor Bush. We looked at the master plan for this, for the whole line from Chicago all the way down into Florida. That is the train line that -- the S line come in the master plan was to go through the central part of Florida . Our plan was to add commuter rail to -- or some sort of rail to the A rail which is 60 miles long. The long story short is they agreed with their master plan and our master plan. The right-of-way was $432 million in the plans for commuter rail for the 68 miles was about $650 million. This has been in the works since 2005. The agreement in principle was reached in August 2006 with CSX . In July and August 2007 is when we had our unanimous funding partner agreement to go forward. As you know, we had legislation deliberation several times going over no-fault liability insurance, which passed. We signed our agreements with Amtrak to do are heavy maintenance in 2010 . The next slide .

Those of you that were there, there was a very hot celebration at the Florida Hospital for our first full funding grant for the first 31 miles which was $357 million. That is what you see up and running today. We took over the tracks and had groundbreaking ceremonies. On July 29, the DOT took over dispatching. We had a building built and took over dispatching. DOT is now dispatching the whole thing. On May 1, 2014, that was today. We had it open -- that was D-DAY . We had it on time and up and running. Since then we have had an additional 70 miles agreed-upon -- 17 miles agreed-upon. We have sensed open that -- we have determined to open mat in late 2017 or possibly early 2018. [ Indiscernible - low volume ] As you know, Phase 2 N., we just talked about that. With all of our funding partners we are going to try to finals federal funds to finish the project in terms of agreements when we took over , we have a number of agreements that we act under as part of the DOT operating face. We have 3 agreements with CSX . [ Indiscernible ] was signed in November 2007 and that really wasn't in place until we started operating the quarter. We were really under the transition which went away once we started operating with the system. We have the contract for sale approach now. Those agreements set forth the rights for CSX, the perpetual freight easement as well as operating hours as well as what CSX pays the department to run their trains on . We also have agreements with Florida Central . That is a short line railroad that operates between downtown Orlando and South Orange County . We get funds from Florida Central to operate on the quarter. We also have an agreement with Amtrak because they operate six trains over the territory. They pay to operate those trains and they do have the right to come onto the corridor with dispatch. Next slide.

What you are probably the most interested is the Interlocal agreements. We have three agreements in place . The first one is called the Interlocal governance agreement. That's an agreement that was voted upon by your counsel as well as the other . funding partners. This is

an agreement between the five funny partners. DOT is not part of that agreement. That includes the technical advisory commission committee, the customer advisory committee, [ Indiscernible ] and talks about the insurance requirements and operating things of that nature within that agreement. We have the Interlocal funding agreement which is between me five local funding partners as well as FDOT . That sets forth local funds for for capital improvements, for projects . The third agreement is the Interlocal operating agreement and that agreement is between Central Florida Central -- Commuter Rail Commission and [ Indiscernible - low volume ] That talked about the advisory relationship during this funding period, and also wants the rail commission takes over. Those agreements actually set for security -- there's a number of details . I have them in a binder which is 3 inches thick tickets a lot of paper, a lot of thought thick binder . It is a lot of paper -- . It is a lot of paper . The department also has agreements for the feeder bus system between the department and the feeder bus system for the three counties to the south. What does that all mean?

We will now talk to that. We could spend hours but we have about 10 minutes left. The ownership and management, what these agreement say is that the department is solely responsible for the development, VGMC, -- design, securing operation -- security, operations, etc. That clock started on May 1, 2014. It will be over on May 1, 2021. After the seven years as we stated, the central rail commission will take over responsibility. Right now they are the advisor to DOT. On May 1 of 2021, DOT becomes an advisor to the commission. For the corridor, there is an easement within the agreement. DOT will provide a central easement to the commission to operate on the corridor. In terms of the stations come as we indicated, the joint use agreements, how the stations will be cleaned and maintained , those joint use agreements will be assigned to the commission after the first seven years -- during the first seven years. Local governments will also have development rights on the stations as well. Within the agreement because that the locals have the right to do transit development on the property that was bought for the stations. The parking has to be provided for the system. If they want to develop the parking lots come on a have done so --, they have done so along with station, they can do so. It also says there are no parking fees assessed at those parking lots while DOT is funding the project. Next slide.

Secretary Downs talks about the base service. The DOT is to provide a service for any increases to that base service has to be approved by the local funding partners. The DOT can't just fund 50 trains without having permission from the local government partners. After the funding period, the DOT -- when the Central Florida rail commission takes over, there is I in the governance agreement of how that deficit will be divided between the local funded partners . That is through a methodology of total [ Indiscernible - low volume ] What that says if -- is the boarding that each station total will be averaged and the farebox revenue will go back to each local partner for their stations. There was an amendment to it. It said if there is local deficit greater than what is in the governance agreement, the local partners do not want to pay

for that -- and if the local partners do not want to pay for that, the deficit can take -- be taken out of the DOT program for that area. [ Indiscernible - low volume ] There's a 62 mile project [ Indiscernible - low volume ] Which shows the federal share of [ Indiscernible - low volume ] State share of $153 million. For operation maintenance, what you saw earlier, the state pays for the maintenance for the first seven years. The first year total cost was $34 million. Locals would take over on May 1, 2021 .

We will now go over the different contracts that we have associated with SunRail. The operator is bombarding -- bombard EA . They are doing the dispatch and they maintain. It is a 10 year contract after seven years it will be transferable to the commission.

This shows the details of what they do. You can see they flag there -- they provide [ Indiscernible - low volume ] The bridge tender service [ Indiscernible - low volume ] Next slide. The second contract is signal maintenance . Originally we wanted it all combined together but through statute we had two separate contracts . That is now seven years and transferable to the commission who maintains all of the signals. Next slide is our marketing.

That is a 12 year contract. We started with the system in May 1, 2014 and have been tweaking it ever since. They go out there and they talk to the hospitals. They asked, can we tweak our schedules . They go to local businesses and try to get more folks and more teams to ride the train. They do all kinds of things. You can read in the newspaper about some of things I have been doing -- they had been doing. As you know, gas prices are low right now. People that try to train seem to like it but it is not for everybody. It depends on the commute and the day. Next slide.

Vehicle had -- heavy maintenance, Amtrak signed a contract to do our heavy vehicle maintenance. They are in the area. That too is transferable to the commission. Next slide. >> Program management and operations oversight, DOT has . full-time positions in SunRail, chief finance person, a guy that runs all of the contracts, make sure sure that the bid -- bills are paid on time, disincentives and incentives on contracts to keep them on their toes. We also have a person who looks at the track to make sure that things are safe. We need operations oversight to do the day-to-day. DOT in general, we do all transportation. This is one mode of transportation. Our operations oversight is part of the overall operations budget which is about $2 million a year for DOT. They oversee the day-to-day making sure that we meet all FRA, Philbrook -- Federal Railroad administration needs. They ensure that they are doing exactly what they are supposed to do, keep the public safe, make sure everything's on time and watch over safety. We also have a general engineering consultants. They provide addition -- additional staff or what I talked about and anything else we might need on the projects. Next slide.

Real quickly, we did celebrate our your of service and we are coming up on two years. We have a little over five years left. Next slide. We

did build -- we have an operation right now , to give you an overview, 32 miles and 12 stations. We do have the free transfers to Lincoln [ Indiscernible ] that we worked through the policy. We talked about this earlier. Next slide.

We thought we would give you some pictures , if you haven't been to all the stations come of the different types of stations. We also work with every staff of the different jurisdictions to make it look like their own station and how they wanted it to look. They put in what they want for landscaping . They all have different look .

Thank you. Ms. Denys?

Thank you . It's good to see you.

Is good to see you.

Can we go back to page 15 on his presentation? -- This presentation? During the FDOT funding program, service-level adjustments must be agreed to by local governments including a decision on cost allocations. Does that include adding services ? This is commuter rail. When the late-night train was added , would that be considered a service-level adjustment ? Would that require an agreement by local governments?

No because I was part of the overall Bombardier contract maximizing the shift. The agreements -- I believe it started out with 34 trains per day. We squeezed out the maximum service for Bombardier on their eight hour shift. That was an extra train they were trying to add. It wasn't on top of that. If we add one more train, that would add -- that would cause money. This didn't cause money. It only cost DOT guest -- gas .

Thank you. That is my only comment for now.

No further comments?

Mr. Patterson? >> The land station is a hot -- the DeLand station is a hot issue here in DeLand. You have heard comments. Are there any changes that need to be made with the DOT at the DeLand station that would make it more attractive to the federal government?

We are going to be meeting with Federal transit administration and ask for any and all opportunities to get this remaining $35 million amount that we need. Where going to ask them everything. They are double checking and looking at their own bill to see what we could apply for. If they have a grant out there, we could apply for that. We are looking at any federal funding opportunity we can find. Where there is a will there is a way. We are going to keep moving forward.

I understand -- I heard a number of $2 billion with POD infrastructure being created . DeBerry is working on it, which I am glad. Somehow this has a bearing upon this.

Yes, I do think that is very positive. They like that as well.

It could affect funding in some situations?

It depends on what type of funding you are applying for. Many types of funding for this type of project should be an asset , absolutely.

Thank you.

Mr. Daniels?

Thank you Mr. Chair. How are you doing Noranne Downs?

Good, how are you doing?

Have you figured out what it would cost us if, let's say DOT wasn't around ? What would it cost us for the operation of the train, given the ridership that we get out of DeBerry ? What would it be? Do you know what that number is?

For your fair share, I don't have that.

Can you give me a ballpark guess? Was a $30 million in operating costs? >> That was the total 61 miles. We don't have it broken down.

Okay. You showed the alignment to Daytona. What -- have you done any cost estimates on that?

The team -- I haven't been really involved in that. I know the team just gave me everything. I think the issue right now is density. I said make sure when you write your final report, you show what densities will be needed to have is viable for federal funding. They haven't finished the report . I would assume they would write the report of final cost based on the preferred alternative. They are narrow -- they are not there yet. They are close.

Okay. And the Orlando airport, how close do you think that is?

We are doing environmental assessment right now. We haven't finalized a preferred type of mold. That should be probably taking place this summer, early fall . At that point, once we can define the preferred type of mode, it would come up with cost. I believe we are going to recommend a total cost that we would think for capital and operations and then we would go out and ask who wants to be a funding partner for this, and is this a project that the area wants to move forward with. It is still in the study phase -- actual be -- actually the environmental study phase.

With Appia DOT decision at this point? -- Would that be a DOT decision at this point?

It would totally go to the funding members.

It would be an amendment to the agreement?

It would be a different agreement, a new agreement. The grandma agreement -- a grand new -- a brand-new agreement as you might have different funding partners. You might have other funding partners in addition.

Very good. That's it Mr. Chairman.

Ms. Cusack?

Thank you Mr. Chair. It is good to see you. Thank you for being here.

Thank you.

My question is, in phase 2 at the DeLand station, I thought the seven-year begins -- clock begins when?

May 1, 2014 .

We are not up and running. How does that impact the funding source?

I would say the state fair share which is an old NPO priority, would still be there. I would assume were 25% fair share would still be there and when we -- we would be looking at the government share.

And if that is not there?

If that is not there, I say we get our heads together and see what can be done.

What would be the impact as it relates to the DeBerry station? That is in a different face. When does the clock begin to take for County government at the DeBerry station? >> It begins ticking on the whole 61 miles May 1, 2014 and seven years later May 1, 2021 would be the end. We are about to put shovels in the ground over the next month for Phase two S. -- phase 2 South . We didn't get it as early as we had hoped for going to the federal process. Clock for everyone in the agreement says May 1, 2014 runs for seven years May 1, 2021 the commuter rail commission takes over for the whole 61 miles if the clock --.

If the clock begins to take , and it is not up and running , with the cost for Volusia County be the same for one station as a was if we had two stations?

I don't have the details of the cost of operations but it is a mathematical formula in the agreement. You might want to go through that formula for operations and maintenance for each of the funding partners common of the exact dollar number.

It's an average of total boardings at each station.

If there is no station ?

I don't have the answer to that.

Do you see where I'm coming from? If we have no station in the ridership in DeLand and we have crossed the bridge, DeBerry station -- in my meager mind, that tells me that our funding would be different.

Do you mean less?

Different meaning less. [ Laughter ]

I don't have that math formula in my head. Your ridership in DeLand would be zero and the ridership -- [ Overlapping Speakers ]

Then we wouldn't have to pay .

It would be the mathematical formula for Volusia County which would be total boardings at each station. You would add up to Barry and you would add up DeLand and it would come up -- DeBerry and you would add up DeLand and it would come up with the total.

We would not be responsible if we don't have -- that would be our share. That one station would be our share.

However the math works out. It would be zero, if there is no station , the boardings would be zero.

That is my concern. I don't want the station to be at the end of the line, -- [ Pause ] -- Policy Anna and stop at DeBerry. And our cost would be to include the land. We are the only ones that are left with no station . Our part would only include the part for DeBerry.

It would be your part which would be DeBerry right now.

I want to be clear on that. I want that station. No make the -- don't make any mistake. I don't want us to be part of that unless the station's there. Do you follow me?

I do follow you . Mr. Eckert ? To be clarify? >> The contingency asked for in councilmember Cusack's question is, the department owns the entire rail. The question becomes if there is no phase 2 to DeLand by the time of the seven years, whether or not the commission assumes the responsibility for maintenance of the entire 61.5 miles worth it is assumed only for the portion of the rail in which the system operates . The question also based by that is whether the department retains responsibility. And whether that makes a difference . This depends upon the revenues with which the department is receiving the users of that portion of the rail , if there were no commuter rails . That is something that would have to be addressed and resolved. The percentage is on the boardings but the question is, to what segment of rail, the question in my mind is what section would it would it -- apply?

I think my question I was headed for a few minutes ago we were talking about density -- is our density for that station what is in the plan. Is that adequate to meet the Fed's requirements ?

It depends on what type of grant to get . If it was like the Tiger grant that we applied for, it would be a piece of the whole puzzle on how they look at that -- we only sense 2 for the whole state of Florida -- we only sent 2 and the whole state of Florida got nothing. They look at the overall project and we put everything in there along with the letters of support. They know this is a piece that's the north end which is more suburban. We have to capture a piece of the federal dollar that meets the requirements. That is what we are looking for. They had many different types of money. Our team as well as, I hope , your team and the commission and staff, is a 60 mile project. You are not in this alone. I assure you both NPO's and TPO's, want this to go to DeLand as much as you do. When Tony and I go out to all of the partners -- Tawny and I go out to all of the partners -- it's on hold for your to find federal source and then we move forward. If we find a federal source, in a month or 2 or a year from now, we will receive the design build package.

So the area where that station would be, the density is adequate to meet what the feds would like to see or would they like to see higher density in that area?

They don't tell us what to do. They just want density that is the point of commuter rail . To have density and get the ridership numbers up. They don't dictate that. They just say what each of the stations want. That's part of our overall package to them.

[ Overlapping Speakers ]

They don't say you are short 10% of anything like that.

There's no problem than.

No we had been talking with folks that actually want to develop right now

Okay . We talked about a month ago and you said you would [ Indiscernible - low volume ] Did you find the funding source? >> We had a meeting in Tallahassee that was top secret. I discussed with them all of the possibilities. I did discuss possibilities, as you know what the funding source that everyone hopes for, it's the 50-25-25 . The statewide policy in general is that's what they will do for Tampa, Miami, if they have a transit project as well. To be consistent, they want me to be consistent with the rest of the state to make sure we are all tied together with a federal funding source.

And you are still looking at that funding -- looking for that funding source at this time.

Yes.

My other question was -- at the end of seven years when counties take over , our fee that we have to pay per ridership in the county -- whoever gets on this train -- that train in Volusia County, that is our fee.

Yes, that is where it's coming from.

So we're not paying rental for track, just for usage fees.

I will ask Tawny for the specifics.

It's in the funding agreement. It says the operating deficit shall be divided by this particular funding formula which is the average boardings which is the average of total boardings in each station [ Indiscernible - low volume ] The farebox revenue that is generated from that station is credited back to the local funded partner .

Okay. That clarified that for me. I understand. It's basically whoever gets on and off that train in DeBary or DeLand . It doesn't matter if we have one station or 10 stations. If you have 100,000 people getting on the train everyday,, that's what you will pay for work off peak hours , it's just average.

It is total boardings your peak boardings is defined by the peak periods that we are running 30 minute service on. If the average of the total boardings throughout the day and the peak boardings.

So that is there. Now the biggest question is -- I will play devils advocate. What happens, what if we can't get the funding and DeBary -- DeLand doesn't have any. We are at the point where it is do or die. We are done. The rail mission owns the tracks for DeBary now for 16+ miles.

The state owns the tracks and the commission has a lease .

The state will be responsible for maintenance from DeLand all the way down to DeBary . If there is no station at the land, I want -- DeLand, I want to make sure that we don't have a problem with Amtrak not coming up here and there are not maintained. Someone has to make sure that the tracks are functioning so we don't have an accident.

Right now, whether there is a station or not, we are paying for 61 miles . All of the contracts are for the whole 61 miles. >> DeLand or not, we are going to become responsible for maintenance of all the tracks, 61 miles.

Yes.

That is simple. Thank you.

The operations is allocated on a boarding basis. Aren't are is allocated otherwise -- R& R is allocated otherwise. Its allocated on a track basis.

[ Indiscernible - low volume ]

Could you define R&R?

If you have the agreement in front of you, it's on a track mile basis.

The capital program is. It's the capital program as well as the insurance.

In the military aren't are -- R& R is defined as remove and/or repair.

That's a shorthand.

That is not how we define it. >> It's going to be of some consequence if we get to that point, since the commission has an easement to operate within a certain system, this is going to be a nation -- an issue between the station and the commission -- commission and the state. The entire 61.5 miles, when the system is only going to operate on the shorter distance -- I hope we don't have to confront that contingency. But this will depend upon the revenues that are received from Amtrak CSX -- and CSX, whether or not there is any practical [ Indiscernible - low volume ] Ms. Cusack? >> Thank you Mr. Chair. I want to go back to the [ Indiscernible - low volume ] This includes the 61.5 miles as well as the number of writers -- the ridership . For Volusia County, the part of the tracks that we would be responsible for would not be the same in cost as Orlando , etc. Neither with the ridership . In my mind, this was not be a blanket statement saying that Volusia County Whitsett -- would pay the same as orange county or Winter Park when the ridership in Winter Park would be a whole lot more.

Correct.

Can you tell me whether or not that is in fact the way it would be, where it would be -- or would it be equally divided amongst all of the stops?

It is not equally divided. Is based on a formula -- it is based on a formula.

How do you reach that formula. UF somehow come up with that number.

--? You have come up with that number somehow.

We have come up with that number. It was agreed upon. The formula that was agreed to --

Included the DeLand station ?

Yes.

And it would remain a part of that formula whether the station is there or not.

But if there is no station, there would be zero boardings.

That there would also be rails and tracks .

Correct.

Would we then be responsible for the tracks if we don't have the station?

-- My point is I want us to get the station and I don't want us to be charged for it to help another County or another area at our expense , and our loss. Do you see where I am?

I totally see where you are. Together we have to figure out some federal funds [ Overlapping Speakers ]

We have to realize that we aren't going to just be players as it relates to funding.

Exactly. We want writers -- riders . I agree.

I just want to be clear on that. This is a big piece for us. It's a lot of dollars and a lot is riding on this. Literally a lot is riding on this . Thank you for your work and I look forward to is getting that station in the land.

I understand. It's not just us. It's everyone in this county. They want us to be good stewards of the money. They want to know where the dollars are going. Why is it going there? We all have questions. I guess there are no other questions. I do have one question, I hypothetical question. -- Hypothetical question. Between is going to go to an international airport did we decide whether or not it was a single train to commute back and forth or a continuation of the line up and back, North and South and back in. Has that been determined?

That is part of the assessment that we are looking at, whether or not it is integrated into the operations. I think that is what you are getting a. Whether it is every other train going into the airport or whether they transfer on the transfer platform and it is a shuttle between the airport. We were assessing that right upper code has been -- right now. There has been no decision.

[ Indiscernible - low volume ]

Whether it's the shuttle as at the airport very commuter train or whatever --

I have one question about the environmental study. Do we have to do another impact study to find out if we can use it?

Based on the procedures coming yes. It is minimal.

You did answer a question that someone has asked me. It is because of the federal standard. The federal standards is even though it's a train track, we still have to do the process.

Yes.

Thank you. No further questions or comments? Thank you very much ladies. You almost made your 20 minutes . You were that close . Chairman the Lori -- DeLary .

Let me introduce myself. I am Chairman Bob DeLary. With me today I have [ Indiscernible - low volume ] Who is also the Executive Director. Thank you for letting us speak. I commend you all for asking the right questions. You want to know where the money is being spent. I think SunRail is not just important for one County. We are with you on the issue of going further north . Commissioner, I want you to be aware of that, so much that the entire region a few years ago went up to DC with the Chairman for that grant. Unfortunately we did not receive the grant. More importantly, we also suppressed other Tiger grant in the region -- grants in the region. I believe the whole 61 miles is extremely important , not just for Volusia County but for all . counties. We mean -- we remain committed to do this. You are not in this fight alone. You have the region behind you. I think it is also important that SunRail has brought the region together. There are some questions that have not been answered. I will commend DOT come of the secretary as well as her staff for the hard work that they are doing in trying to answer those questions. Elected officials of questions as well as the staff have questions. I also want to commend the two congresspeople who are behind us. Without them we wouldn't be as far as we are today. We are committed to completing the entire 61 miles . You are not there alone. You have the region behind you. Thank you and thank you for allowing me to speak today. Do you have any questions? If you do, don't hesitate to ask DOT or the partners. I hope we will continue with this success of the region and complete the entire 61 miles. Thank you.

Thank you Commissioner. It is good to see you. We will have to do lunch again.

You've got it.

[ Laughter ] You have to fill out a yellow form councilmen, for the record. No further discussion on this?

We will move on to item -- we have item for consent agenda . Would you be willing to discuss this after lunch?

I would prefer to discuss it after lunch to dovetail into another issue.

Very well. Before we go, I do have a few things. I have the assignments . I want to make sure everyone is good with these assignments . I want to make sure everyone is happy with where we are at. If you would like a change, during the Council discussion time, -- in lieu of the news report , I would like to let everyone know before lunch and let you think it over over lunch -- after the race into Tona -- in Daytona, the mayor asked for me to speak with him. I said, what do

you want to talk about. He said I want to talk about this almost thing. I said okay. Yes?

[ Indiscernible - speaker too far from microphone ]

I wish is going to let you know what happened .

I meant discussion in chambers .

[ Indiscernible - low volume ]

We can take a break for lunch or I can clear the chambers. We are going to go to lunch. We will reconvene at 2:00 PM. Until then we are at recess for lunch. >> [ The meeting is on a lunch recess. The session will reconvene at 2:00 P.M. EST. Captioner on standby. ] Please stand by for real-time captions. --

[ Captioners Transitioning ] >> [ The session will reconvene at 2 PM EST ] SPEAK -- >> We are calling the meeting back to order. Agenda item 15. The contract is a combination of two contracts that have been in effect. Involving the diversion beds and another one instituted a few years back. The contract served a population that commonly overlapped and we thought for continuity of service, it would be best to combine them. This is done at the request of the contractor. It is a service that has been upgraded by the contract to include performance criteria and measurements. We hope to continue to improve in the future.

Councilwoman do you have any questions?

I will make the motion to approve this. I pulled it -- not for any concerns but other to say it is a good contract and I think the County does a good job in representing the interests.

What I would like to do on page 15-9 paragraph B, 5.1. Talking about the compensation and the payments.

I would like to bring this back to the counsel for further discussion. When I assume the Council will talk about the negotiations in this city of Daytona Beach. I think the language in here and for the accountability and measurements are important. This is almost $500,000 contract.

We are talking millions. The contract language and Burbage we do it well and on a smaller contract I will expect something at least this strong and worded this way going forward with any project. With that I will make the motion for approve all --

Is there a second?

I have a second from Trinity six -- Fred Lowry Jr., in the DB on the motion?

Any objections?

Showing the motion passes unanimously.

For the record we need to know that is 6-0. Mr. Davis has had to leave.

Moving on to item 27. Ordinance 2016-04 amending chapters that indeed impact fees, article 3 thorough fair wrote impact fee, section 70-79 by providing the use of exceptions on adjoining parcels.

With a structure is demolished any new structure is projected. There are several traffic trips in conjunction with the buildings on the property.

What the ordinance currently states, is that exemption stay on the particular parcel of which the structure previously existed. What we see is more and more redevelopment projects combining parcels, across streets, unified development projects that probably should be recognized as such so the exemptions on all of the parcels can be cold and utilize the boxed the parcels. -- Utilized amongst the parcels.

An example, the hotel available put a parking garage where the old CVS used to be. Garages do not have the impact fee but the CVS would happen those credits can be used across the street for the hotel.

Another example DeLand the property rather than combining the impact fee exemption on the parcel they put together, they had to go through a month-long process to combine the properties underneath in DeLand.

This provides efficiencies for large-scale projects and some of the smaller Scipio -- smaller scale projects.

I am aware of another project in DeLand on the land by Jimmy John's where they are trying to combine the projects.

What we did we drafted the language that allows for the combination of exemptions on unified parcels with development projects. In hopes this will encourage redevelopment and help us to track the impact fee exemptions better.

-- The Speedway would be one that would be able to take advantage of this. They took down a significant number of seats with a redeveloped Daytona rising. They are going to be -- it came before you all about 2 years ago. There were condos on the property, restaurants and other things. With Daytona across the street there will be a walkover that will combine the two properties. Creating synergy. We were not aware what the exemptions will be and how they will be distributed. Obviously they would be able to take advantage of this as the all -- as the other redevelopment projects. To utilize the exemptions from the existing structures that had been there. To apply against the structures they will be constructing.

Both one Daytona site and the Daytona rising side.

This is a public hearing, am I on the?

Yes sir.

There is a public hearing on this, and the public participation?

No sir.

We will close the public hearing, do we have any questions from councilmembers?

Doug Daniels [ Indiscernible comment or question-not within range of microphone ] >> What will this time -- what will this cost us?

We will go out and asking voters to contribute $0.01 or a portion thereof for the road projects. We are giving up a portion of our road impact fee. What will this cost and where?

Do we have any estimates?

Not really do -- it may cost the impact fee program some funds.

For example, the dog track that was torn down. Just to the west of the existing Speedway. Some of the credits were used for the Cracker Barrel. Excuse me I say the exemptions and so were the room to go. Ordinal Larry -- ordinarily those exemptions would stay on the property, if the Speedway did no other development that would be left on the parcel.

By moving those across the street to one Daytona, there are no additional trips on the road and it should be a 1 to 1 transfer but the buildings may not have provided in the exemptions to cover the new development. To the extent there are no new trips on the road it should cost you nothing. It will come down to negotiating with the number of trips are at the value of the trips in the long run?

What we have is the Speedway that has [ Indiscernible ] there are a number of people in the stands. We are talking about a development that will help people day in and day out -- at least we hope so.

How will you come up with a the equivalent?

The traffic staff has been working on the analysis. It has been an interesting process for the reason that you stated, the Speedway events up to this point have been -- multiple times per year but not every day traffic

Traffic engineering staff has been analyzing the actual impact on the road versus what the new development will be.

We had not come to terms on what the number is, we are still negotiating with the Speedway. It is easy when you talk about ACBS and there are 10,000 ft.², there are 1500 trips per day that is an easy calculation.

This is different and it sometimes requires traffic impact analysis. That is one of the things that we were talking about negotiating with this beat way, potentially creating a pool of exemptions and have a traffic impact analysis a couple of years into the process. Making sure that is the traffic impact on the roads and subtract the exemptions off of that.

We are still in negotiations, this could have tremendous impact on some of the other roads around the Speedway.

The engineering staff is aware of the issue, at this point IVS is constrained we cannot allow the level of service to drop. And cause a daily impact on the residents of Volusia County and Daytona Beach.

This proposal is not ready for prime time because we do not know what it will cost us. Let's take the Russians for existence -- for example?

What is the last time you talked with them?

They are not very concerned about the road impact fees.

The issue at the time was amending the PUD with the city of Daytona Beach.

What we have is to projects in CRA that have not maxed out the city commitment to the projects. If the city had given them 100% of the CRA money, generated by the project. To help them build, which is something I think they need to come up then if an impact fee credit will get them over the top. I would be willing to consider it. We are not there yet.

If you are talking about the Speedway, what is that all alert volume -- the dollar volume?

Do we have an idea?

It depends on the calculation of how many exemptions are granted for the removal of the seats.

Estimates are anywhere from the value of the exemptions are $3 million-$10 million.

You are aware that we had committed $20 million, this will be another $3 million-$10 million?

It depends on how you evaluate the situation. They would be entitled regardless, it goes to the calculation of exemptions.

The staff is particularly conservative of the estimate of the impact fee exemptions. They would stay currently just on the south side of ISP. It will allow them to be moved to the north side. It included significant development, condominiums, apartments, restaurants and gambling. Even though approved by the city of Daytona Beach, it was gambling and we'd only do the underlying fee. We wanted you to become cognizant. >> They could well leave all of those exemptions on the south side of the road. They could move them to the north side when they build the development including the gambling and the restaurants etc. then pay actual impact fees at the time that development goes in.

You are correct about we do not have the node impact -- known impact at this point, I have not sure we won't know until we have our out the actual impact on the road, the actual trips to be calculated on the road.

It seems like it is premature. Will will be builds or what they are doing, maybe nothing else will be builds, will be B less trips?

If I can intervene --

To the extent it depends upon the assumptions and on the ordinance and fees that are affected at the time. You allow the exemptions to be used at a earlier stage at the fees are higher later, that mitigates the amount that is collected. It is a question of allowing redevelopment, if you did not do this -- parcels which are not owned on the north side for example, those exemptions will be calculated accurately. Spent -- calculated separately.

Whereas this promotes the idea of redevelopment and internal capture.

It is proposed to you we think it is -- appropriate response to the redevelopment proposal, we drafted it so it applies generally and promotes a good policy. But part of it depends upon subsequent action. Not to say whether or not you increase the value of the impact fees, without the final determination of the number of trips, in other words -- if they transfer on the south side. Transferred to the north side the value of the trips used are less than subsequent development on the south side.

I am not sure that you have cost yourself anything in the long run. It depends upon a lot of moving code -- parts.

Promoting good development. If you assert short-term costs, you can assume it may be fairly large or short-term or be made up in the future. It is not really any different than the notion of -- exemptions when the ordinance was originally adopted. It is hard to tell with the value of that is going to be as well.

Okay -- I guess my issue goes to -- we do not really know what it is that we are getting into?

What we are doing we are transferring a couple of times per year.

That goes to the trips here. I think the trip generation for the grandstand. One of the things to be resolved, you measure on a weekday rate.

The grandstands of a certain thousand number of seats not measured on the same -- it is a bit like a church. Or synagogue on the weekend but you measure trips on the average daily basis.

The figures into the amount of the exemption.

It is one of those things that seems to be up in the air there are no hard dollars on this. What we will be asking the voters to do, to tax themselves to provide money for the roads. What we are doing is expanding the inability of people who are -- in positions of wealth to do a significant deal.

Cutting back on the impact fee obligations without any proof that they actually need it to make the project work.

That is the objection I guess, if there was proof that they needed it to make it work and this would be the ice cream on the cake and all of a sudden the cake with either. -- Cake would be there.

I am in favor and I will recommend this and I will tell you why. I think there are two different issues. One thing we want to do on redevelopment is encourage people to redevelop. Encouraging people to combine parcels were there is existing infrastructure. The point about the value, that is a separate issue. Coming to an understanding of what the value they have is. It does not cost the taxpayer anymore but what you do is allowing them to use it.

If you come to the point where you believe they are owed a certain amount of credits, you are allowing them to use them without taxpayer dollars to encourage redevelopment. The part we are talking about today is not specific to any web development. At this point, let's consider the opportunity at the Parcells are adjacent under Webmaster plantation maximizes the use of credits in the development. Not creating extra value if we decide the right value to the credits.

When you go back far long before I was here, there were formulators on where you do that. We will have to come to something that we believe is fair. Once you come to the point in which you think the value that people have -- I think it is not in the best interest of the county to deny people the use of those trips if they are going to redevelop. It is creating jobs.

This allows people that have value to use the value. Arguing about how much value they had is a different issue. That is a separate discussion. It has yet to be determined. The concept that you allow people and encourage people to use their credits and encourage redevelopment. Especially when you put the parcels together. It makes sense from that perspective.

This is not done for one developer or when development, it affects all. This allows them to use the value, in that case it is in our best interest it encourages redevelopment. What I had been told over the years -- that is what the Council supports.

This has to do with a single plan the adjoining parcels, the adjoining parcels do not have to be a part of the master development.

Those are my objections we do not know what we are getting into the money given up or the deals. I have been favored in talking to people about the arrangements what's we know the deals.

Any other questions?

Entertaining a motion?

You either approve the ordinance or you don't.

I move for the approval. >> Is there any debate?

All in favor?

Opposed?

I did not hear that.

5-1. Doug Daniels voting against. >> Item 28, presentation of economic development data for the fourth quarter 2015. >> Good afternoon. Rob Earhart will provide you an update on the local economy for the fourth order 2015.

For those listening on the Internet, the presentation is not only attached to the agenda but also on our website at on our website@Floridabusiness.org >> The 15 year trend of annual average wages for the private industry. And on the right you will see the specific number 4 Volusia County and the state of Florida. These are the numbers that the state published that they will use for and sense of calculation, baseline in the calendar year 2016. We thought it would be interesting to overlay on the slide. But in your books you can see two areas that represent the timeframe. We added the 15th year trend for unemployment rates.

It will allow you to see from a trending perspective relative to the recessions what happened with the wages and unemployment.

Moving on, it is a 10 year trend of Volusia County population. You will see there is a line that indicates forecasted value, not actual. Generally the trend is positive. Population is increasing, when you lay that against the size of the labor force over the same 10 year period. That seems to be declining, when you further reference the number of employed, clearly you have the client approaching and through the recession and a nice trend increasing since the recession.

Focusing on the red line and blueline it occurred to me we need to understand why the opposite trends are occurring?

We develop the next slide to show a percentage change by age group over a five-year period. You can see the biggest change is -- age groups about 55 years of age. For the ages 35-54, prime earning years. There has been noticeable decline. Spent next is your typical show of labor statistics, I will not spend a lot of time other to highlight the bottom left.

Unemployment rate averaging 5.1%. We added a second line graph that shows a separate unemployment rate data set that I previously reported on. That is to find at the bottom of the slide. Expanded view of unemployment and unfortunately not available at the county level the only available at the states level. We continue to get best publish this going forward.

The numbers to the love of the averages for the quarter for each industry that you see. The bars represent the numbers, relative to one another. You can see that is reported as the fourth largest employment agency in Volusia County.

The numbers on the right are the gains and losses for one year ago. It shows the most significant gains year over year.

These are the labor statistics numbers four Volusia County and the five cities that have populations over 25,000. I will take advantage of the annotation feature right here in the chambers and bring your attention to the unemployment number 4 to the unemployment number 4 December 2015. Below 12,000, the unemployment rate was 5%. The best in raw socks had just beaten the Colorado Rockies in the World Series, President Obama just been elected to his first term and I had not turned 50 years ago [ Laughter ] it was a long time ago.

That makes you older than most of us [ Laughter ]

[ Indiscernible comment or question-not within range of microphone ]

Moving on to the permit data. We have permit data for the fourth quarter so we can consider 2015 as a whole. This is residential new construction permits over $425 million in residential new construction activity in the county. By comparison to 2014, in dollars that is a 13% increase and numbers 16% increase, very strong performance in 2015.

Statewide homebuilders 2/3 feel good about the momentum going into 2016. Every reason to believe that 2016 at least on the current trajectory could show similarly strong performance.

Here are the raw numbers for the permits with DeLand leading the way.

Congratulations on the city of DeLand to continue to attract new construction residential opportunities.

Commercial permit data. The trend is not the same in fact for 2015, new construction permit activity totaled $153 million, in 2014 the total was $172 million about 11% decrease.

We fill a lot of positive momentum coming out of 2015, a lot of great project that have really brought great visibility to Volusia County and establish momentum going into 2016. This morning I was part of discussion with a local business, I feel very good about the potential for 2016 in terms of commercial new construction. There has been a lot of activity we may find ourselves running out of empty storefronts. So to speak.

If I can use the word as a euphemism for commercial opportunities.

10 permits totaling $30 million for the outlet wall -- outlet mall.

The next slide slightly formatted for what you are used to seeing, we eliminated recording on commercial foreclosures. The skill required to accurately report residential numbers did not make for effective display of commercial numbers. >> The last slide provided by the total -- Daytona international Speedway. There is a lot of information on here, I am not equipped to speak to this. Joey has made himself available to share his thoughts and views. I apologize he cannot be here today -- so I will just highlight the section to the right. Over 75% of the contractors were Florida based on the project add of the construction jobs that they reported, 92% of those individuals were Florida residents.

Again not only a great project for the community but in my opinion is shown commitment to local content by the organization. And the results.

Are they said we have a presentation to the business community tomorrow you are welcome to join us, breakfast at breakfast at 7:45 AM and the meeting will start at 8 AM. I will try to put 10 pounds in a 5 pound sack.

Any questions?

Thank you.

You are welcome.

Item 29. Discussion on impact of $12 per hour wages for direct County workers that are full-time, part-time and associated contract positions.

Tom Motes?

I will introduce Tom -- he will shared the request that the Council made to see the impact to the budget if we increase the lowest paid employees to $12 per hour. He will goal through that -- go through that with you. I will let him go ahead and walk you through that.

Tom Motes you are recognized.

I am a human resources director. When we looked at this increasing to $12 per hour. The impact of that would be totally for the part-time and full-time employees, right at $863,000. If we did that as well for the contract employees it would be another $803,000. Totaling that out around $2,172,000. That would be the impact of the $12 per hour.

Any questions? >> Joyce Cusack .

Way have this handout -- we have this handout -- I guess -- can you go over each line item rather than doing the summary?

Yes I can.

It is important that you understand the dollars that we are dealing with. We need to have some input as to how we will implement -- if we decide this is where we are going to go.

It is too big of an issue.

We need to get the -- [ Multiple Speakers ]

You need to look at this in three pieces. Number 1, we were asked to look at the financial impact. We believe this is as close as we can get, there is possibility not knowing all of the implications it can cost other costs. What this does not consider, I am not considering any increases in any other salaries because of compression. In other words when you start to do this, it is a butterfly effect. You kill a butterfly you find out that your parents are not alive because somebody eight this or that. The unintended consequences are such that we do not know them all, we know some of them.

You can say that is fine but the employees have to live with them. I have not considered any changes in anyone else because of the ripple effect.. Look at this in three ways, if you do this full-time employees, another is part-time employees, and the contract employees they are three distinct groups.

In the case of the part-time employees, a good portion of those people this is not there major wage. These are students and retired people in a lot of cases. Walking you through the direct impact this is six and a jobs on the books. We do not fun people in what we will call the ghost positions. The vacant positions are authorized to be filled up by me and they are not because we are looking for somebody, it is not the right time of the season or whatever.

The real impact will be employees that you have today and the ones that are going to be filled that I authorized to be filled as soon as that need present itself or the person we like the resume and they are selected for the job.

Joyce Cusack you when I talked .

Looking on the left-hand column. The next column says number of employees full-time, as you can see -- we have a total of full-time employees, 116 impacted by these. These are not the ones that have compression or hierarchy.

We just have combined them into one, this does not take into account for that. That total allowed will be to to thousand $451. $241,000.

Take the vacancies of the full-time people --

Going over to the vacancies looking at the full-time vacancies authorized to be filled that there are 46 of those. That is to the right column. There are 46 and that would be $48,854. They would be directly impacted by moving everybody over to $12 on a regular basis.

Stop right there --

Looking at where I circled, 46 people, here is what this Eckstein. You have approximately $250,000 for full-time positions. Annually.

People in the positions and you can anticipate and another 48,000 because we will fill the other 46 positions. Looking at the left-hand side. There is a total at the bottom of 414. You can see next to the cost -- $862,969. For the approval -- people we currently have working today.

On the right-hand side, the vacancies. These are was we had the real possibility of hiring and utilizing during the year. There is 275 of those people if those are filled during the year, that would be $256,347.

That is how you get to the total -- on the right.

You have the middle -- contract employees.

If you do the contract employees as well. We do not have the number of those. We tried to get that from the contractor. Over the last year, they gave us the numbers. It was -- they said if we move the same people that we utilized last year to $12. It would be a had a $3000. -- $803,000. >> To get the total number you have to add $862,000, $803,000, $48,000, and $257,000.

Correct.

Joyce Cusack this is what you are getting added -- there are three distinct groups that you are talking about.

Talking to other Council members, that becomes clear that most cases they want to look at those separately. At least when they talked to me talking about the individual needs.

Fred Lowry?

[ Indiscernible comment or question-not within range of microphone ]

Thank you Mr. Chairman. We asked for this to be done so we can see it Ensor forth -- and so forth in the idea was to make sure nothing was out of line. I am pretty pleased with where we are at with the salaries. I believe that you have done a good job. My thinking is -- let's move on. >> Once I saw this, I felt very good and comfortable.

Joyce Cusack?

Thank you. It is important that we understand -- if we have employees that are full-time. That may be presently making $12 per hour. Or let's say $20.50 per instance and now you are saying -- $12.50 per instance and every new hybrid that we bring in or have to make at least $12 per hour.

It is a wonderful concept but is it realistic for us?

I would say only -- I would certainly hate to work here for a certain number of years and be making the same thing as an entry-level person.

That would definitely present some heartburn for me. It would be wonderful to move in the direction of the full-time employees. I do not think we can do much with contracted employees.

I think that is out of the wrong of where we are as being responsible. If we move these things, we need to make sure -- you cannot reach these numbers -- I say this to my colleagues without impacting some other issues. I believe that paying a decent wage, make no mistake. But you have to be careful and make sure that we can first -- before the increases.

You have to make sure that you find out the bottom line as to how much it will cost for folks who are very close. Who are just past $12. A lot of things that we have that are not actually spelled out.

We do not know the true picture of the actual costs. You have to look at the union workers. We have quite a few here.

My proposal would be, looking at this and try to deal with -- getting the staff to provide us with information as to if we move dealing with the full-time and the vacancy positions.

Maybe we can do something in that but to think we could do all of this at the sweep of April -- of a broom is not realistic -- just my personal view.

What we need to make sure that we understand for every action, there is a reaction.

Taking these dollars, where are we going to take them from?

The citizens must be aware that we want to make sure that we do at the very best for our employees.

The entry-level as well as those that have been dedicated and committed to working and serving County government. There is a lot of work to do before we can get to a place that we can even consider moving in this direction.

I would be interested in hearing what my colleagues have to say. It is a lot of work here and a lot of under that we do not have the information. If we are going to tackle this we need to do it in incremental steps. Beginning with our full-time and are vacancies.

Thank you.

Doug Daniels.

Thank you. The arguments that Joyce Cusack has made and others have made against doing this are exactly the ones that made against having the impact fee credit deal done. We know more about this than the impact of the impact fee transaction.

Doing the whole thing is $2,172,000.

On one project alone it was between $3 million-$10 million.

We can give away $3 million-$10 million that we cannot pay our employees. That is a misplaced priority, particularly since the developments have not come in. It is like icing on the cake.

I really do think we ought to consider it and I understand the reluctance to go the entire way. Maybe we could cut it down. Limits to the county active full-time and then part-time employees. That would be $862,000. Which will not break the break. I make a motion that we increase those people to $12 per hour.

Motion for -- just the full-time employees?

Yes, and part-time employees.

If I can make a correction. The full-time was over $200,000.

We have a motion on the floor. Is there a second?

[ Silence ].

The motion will die for a lack of a second

I will relinquish the floor.

Joshua Wagner.

I believe in increasing the -- we will not get their -- there in one sweep. In preparation for the next digit hearing, do an analysis for what it will take for the first step. For $10 and then $11 and the next budget for $12. That would be a three-year forecast.

Eating this and one by is hard for the budgetary reasons, I think we can get there over time. As a government we need to look at the wages. It is important and we need to consider it as a state and county level outside of our government. >> The five-year projection will be coming up. Around the May/June time period.

Are you thinking --

With compression.

That will give us the time to work that out. Giving you an idea of what that will look like over the next 3-4 years.

There was a big article in the Huffington Post. The company made sure making sure everybody would make at least $70,000 per year.

It created an insanely bad work environment because of the compression issue. Engineers making $70,000 as well as the custodian.

We have to take in consideration the compression -- you cannot do one without the other.

Just look at it all. Look at what the government can do to move in that direction in a three-five-year period.

That is something that we can do as part of the five-year forecasts. >> One of the issues that you have. I'm not think there is quite the ripple effect. The wage can be close that the part-time people do not have the same benefits.

In our case the benefits are very significant. We did analysis and our wages now if you add in the benefits are almost $19 per hour.

The lowest wage is $11 per out. -- Per hour.

The impact in terms of the ripple effect has more to do with permanent people. That you have permanent people all equal making the same benefits.

Part-time people -- you know that it depends on how they are being used and the skill level. It is complicated but I think it is a different animal.

Deborah Denys .

I do not support the part-time $12 per hour. Anybody who thinks a high school were working part-time -- not meant to be a full-time position. Obviously.

I am not in support and part-time moving it to $12 at all. There is a reason it is part-time. I do not think that government should be standard for the part-time workers. I will take a the best a look at it -- I will take a look at it. But I will not support the part-time positions at all.

Doug Daniels.

In 1973 the average wage was $21.23 per hour. We have the Walmart government, we are not paying the people were paid in 1973. Not including the benefits.

We need to move away from the Walmart government in Volusia County, we need to lead the way to try to better people's lives. That there is the purpose, it is not cost us the benefits that we Del Valle to other people. We help more people when we do it.

I see where it is going and I understand. I.e. think you really need to think about it and maybe we can bring this ups time in the future.

-- This up sometime in the future. >> Remember that -- when we increase the budget that goes ultimately to the citizens that must pay the taxes. When we increase our taxes, based on different things. Everything must be considered. I am not willing to pay part-time stalkers -- stockers $12 per hour but we cannot afford that -- I would love to do that but we cannot.

For the suggestion from Joshua Wagner it is great. I would venture to say -- looking at a five-year with compression. Beginning with $11 per hour. But I think we have to be reasonable and understand, that we are a government entity, for every dollar that we spend we must be accountable for it.

I do not think anyone here does not want to do the right thing for the employees. As it relates to the wages. But we must do it in steps and try to get their. -- Get there. But we cannot get there in one leap.

I would certainly consider the five-year plan looking at $11 per hour or $10.50, I like $11 better.

I think that we have established the direction here.

Before we moved to item number 30.

We will have a 10 minute recess.

Any objections? >> [ Session will have a 10 minute recess and will resume at 3:18 PM EST ] >> [ Computer reconnect ] >> Joyce Cusack.

I have had numerous conversations with them. Keenness three meetings or two meetings and had personal things going on. You contacted me twice the timeframe. I feel very comfortable in the fact that he has the desire to serve. I will place his name in nomination or that.

The at-large Eastside applicant, Robert Clinton.

Any objection?

Let's show the motion will pass.

Westside application?

We have a motion for continuance?

Any objections?

Show that it passes unanimously.

At-large appointment in district 1.

Joyce Cusack you have an appointment ?

Yes I do. This is item 31.

I would like to appoint Chad Truxall. I have spoken with him and other recommendations have come to me. He is with the Marine -- I cannot think -- he is very active in the area. In the Marine discovery -- that is what it is.

I would love to place his name in nomination for him to serve as the Southeast Volusia County advertising authority.

In the objections of the motion? >> No objections.

I am going to pass this over to Joshua Wagner.

We have a motion for continuance --

We need a second -- Joyce Cusack. >> The appointment to Halifax area advertising authority?

[ Multiple Speakers ]

A motion to personally go after the trial lawyers in Volusia County.

[ Laughter ]

Have you done that for 25 years?

Motion for continuance?

A second.

The motion will carry for lack of objection.

Moving on.

Reports?

I will start -- Deborah Denys.

I had to issues, I spoke to the manager about both of these. I believe that you received emails from concerned vendors in New Smyrna beach. The concern from the vendors is up until we have changed vendors with the beach past, the businesses were able to purchase a annual pass for each of the vehicles.

The way the current policy is -- each time a vehicle is rented they have to have a beach past -- pass. >> [ Technical Disconnect - please standy by ] >> Technically you can transform it every time and take the sticker in. There are a couple of areas that need changing in the code. They tried to take care of it with the vendor. For the Council to deal with the policy.

We do not have the situation, but I will support it either way those are the two things I have heard so far. It is a yes or no. Or variation between?

How will we do that?

Can I go to the Deputy County Atty.?

Please do.

The way the code reads right now the vehicles for hire are not allowed to get a pass of any kind they have to pay the daily rate. Determine under which circumstances the vehicle will be allowed to obtain a pass. Exiting just to the vendors that provide recreational vehicle that utilizes the beach such as the jeeps and the schooners?

Extending to Alamo and Avis correct the cars from the airport?

I would need that direction and I will need direction on what the rate would be question that I can advertise and ordinance probably would be the end of March before we could get on the agenda.

Those of the questions that you have to ask, what vehicles for hire, circumstances and with the annual rate will be?

And we define golf carts, scooters, -- I am not looking at the rental vehicles were cars.

But there is a vendor who rents jeeps. That is one of the vendors that were affected by the previous misinterpretation of the code.

My understanding --

You need to decide if he would be included as well because we have received phone calls from him.

Can I suggest something else that you may want to look at?

If you make a policy change, you may want to look at whether -- if you do this. I think there is a difference between doing that on the off-

peak days like Monday-Thursday versus encouraging them during the weekend and the holidays what we already have issues.

If you say odd that nonpeak days we can give you a deal. But when it is already crowded, New Smyrna Beach beach -- is a perfect example. It seems like it would balance off watching the vehicles on the beach.

I think that would be hard to enforce, putting more difficult to -- more difficulty to the vendors to enforce.

I think we need a lot more information on this. The looks like there is a lot of different things. It is best to have the staff come back at the next meeting and bring some people from the beach over. So we had a good idea of what they need to contend with it.

That is a good place to start, can we start the discussion?

Giving you some options?

Please.

I think that we can implement what I suggested.

Clearly you would not want to incentivize during peak holiday days, that is premium space. We will give you options to consider all of the factors.

The one with the car concerns me.

I see different scooters for golf carts. On the car -- how do you do that?

I think we will try to come up with something. It is more problematic.

Thank you.

I think if you look at the policy that you look at everything including the jeeps. What would be the advantage or disadvantage to the person who has a Jeep opposed to the person who has a scooter. Convincing me something that happens magically. >> My point on this --

We want information so I can make that decision as to your point as to why we should do this one way or another.

Much between the Jeep and the scooters, how do I draw a distinction between the Jeep or every other rental car?

May be that the terminating factor --

[ Multiple Speakers ]

Let us come back with more options. We will talk to each one of you and get some ideas. We will try to craft different alternatives and make sure all of the staff is involved. We will try to show pros and

cons. That was my issue with the Jeep. You have rental cars that are the same thing.

I will try to bring it back either the next meeting. The first meeting in March is really crowded. That will be impossible, I will try to bring it back if I can in the next meeting.

The last issue. Talking about economic development. Years ago when you took on the project of DeLand crossing was very profitable. At the end for Volusia County. We went through this entire process with the project panther in Southeast Volusia County. We had quite a few bureaucratic stumbling blocks.

We navigated and the staff did a tremendous job.

We now have a roadmap if you well -- will. I would like to suggest, if we could work with the staff and if you can jump into this Mr. manager. Assembling a parcel that would be shovel ready if you will should another project panther come around. Talking about the wages and bringing up part-timers to $12 per hour, project panther celebrate average was $75,000. I believe there would be approximately 300 assembly manufacturing site.

Bringing in another 400 jobs into Volusia County and the surrounding areas. It is an opportunity that we have worked on and we know what to do and his staff is well-versed. We know where we can put the pieces together, it would be all love the Volusia County best interest that we go forward and assemble -- be ready for the next option. We need to be ready, it is going to be when -- for this.

I think that we can look at that. I will tell you I got here after they did the one on DeLand crossing and I got an earful from the private sector. The government should not compete with selling land.

There may be another alternative, week a look at -- what will happen if we assemble private people to be ready to move?

In other words, getting agreements -- that was the essence on how we were going to do that. Agreements with private people that they would work together for the opportunity. You provide the framework to assemble. That way you have not bought the land that you found a way to -- to see if it will work. If not, do you want to assemble the land?

We need to get zoning, bureaucratic hurdles out-of-the-way. So we are not stumbling over ourselves with the next project comes back. We could do what we do best in marketing.

Do the framework what you try to find out all the obstacles that we have, getting the coalition to work together. Working on ideas on how they will sell the land. That is an alternative -- if you allow me to look at that.

We do not get criticism that we are not competing. Here is the other thing, you do not have to pick the winners and losers, anyplace in the county that wants to do this, we can work with.

We can say -- you can have as many of the parcels that you want if the people cooperate. It will take work from us to get the package together. We have never done that before, it is well worth looking at.

You can have several and I think the fact that you would be marketing them within Curt private Dr. people to come together so they can be on the list. -- Sector people to come together so they can be on the list.

It was impressive and I know all the work that went into it.

I do not want to lose the momentum and the footprint that I know already exist.

The either alternative if the council wants to look at pretty and other industrial Park --

How many acres were we looking at with the project panther?

Rick and Rob, can you come up here for just a moment.

They convinced me of the model -- we had no ability to purchase then. Let's find a way to lock it down and not old it. -- Own it.

Rick and Rob are here. There were a number of parcels that we dealt with with project panther.

The county so does own another -- owns substandard parcels. We were combining all of these in addition and trying to buy some of the substandard parcels. When they decided to move towards the other property in Oak Hill. That was left on the table, but the framework is still there. I will be happy to work with the records office to look and see how we can accomplish this.

There was an agreement because there were multiple parties, nobody would hold anybody hostage. The nice thing -- if he could do this in a number of places all over the county. For a small minimal amount of taxpayer money and effort. If we can get people to cooperate, we have nothing to lose and if it does not work, we will have another model.

I think now would be a good time to assemble to be ready.

This particular property is ideally suited we would exchange properties that certain land owners wanted to get the property that we needed. We would be happy to put this together. The business alliance is looking at some other things to bring -- what we are talking about is the public/private partnership. DeLand crossing was public judgment with the grant money.

You have to do a public/private partnership with this, you will have a better reception of the business community.

How many acres were we looking at?

300 acres?

[ Multiple Speakers ]

The size of the acreage increased as the project discussion unfolded. We got to something in excess of 100 acres. If we pursue this at the manager direction we identify service rises may be over 200 acres or 100-200 acres, or 50 acres, so we have multiple options.

You have land owners that are part of team [ Indiscernible ] and they want to market this the land or that land. You are can meeting -- you are competing with me. What I would say, if you like this, why don't you join and be part of the club?

Everybody gets a shot because -- when the potential customer is there. Everybody competes. They are serious about competing.

I like the idea because -- everybody that has led who wants to do this configure out a way to be on the list. I applaud you, let's see what issues we had ahead of time. Do we have the infrastructure issues. What we can do. There can be a way to offer -- who do not have water or the roads and we had a limited funds. Maybe we will ship them to a site based on who is competitive. Sprint --

It is worth looking at while we got our act together. We did not lose the site for lack of trying and for being prepared. There were other issues.

We were able to put the package together on land that we did not own. Ready to compete and that was a viable site.

It is still viable -- I agree.

For us to do it back quickly -- it would be nice to do the process before the client showed up at the door.

That is the point of the conversation going forward.

Doug Daniels.

Thank you.

[ Indiscernible-low volume ]

I think that you are heading down the right direction. I would like to point out a lot of land owners complained about the DeLand crossings, they had not gone -- done a damn thing before or since. They talk good game but they did not do it. They do not put in efficient sure. The

county should be commended and I do not think that should deter us in the future.

I would like to do -- the one thing that -- if you're using private money you are putting together a private deal down in Oak Hill or wherever else in the county you are doing it because the money is not on the line. But if our money is on the line, we need a feasibility study. We need to know this is feasible, we will look like fools if we dump a lot of money into the infrastructure that nobody is interested in

We will be out of here so fast, it will not be pretty. Thank you.

I agree.

Anything else Deborah Denys?

I got ahead of myself here when I went to the councilmembers. We did have public participation, is there anybody here for public participation?

Not that I am aware of.

I was trying to be nice Mr. Daniels. >> Do you have something to chime in with?

I do not.

Thank you.

Fred Lowry?

Mr. Wagner?

Serve?

[ Indiscernible-low volume ]

I have a couple --

I will skip -- does Jason plan on coming back.

As we get towards the end, he needs to be here any promise me that he would be here.

I will talk about other stuff first.

Jeep beach came to talk about the meeting a couple of weeks ago. An event that goes on every year they do not ask for government money or any sort of help. They have been very positive. Can we have a staff member me with them. They are now getting big enough they want to reach out to see what type of relationship we can have.

Not necessarily money by doing thing on the beach. I know at one point, do you remember -- 3 years ago we met about -- I had the idea about doing something off-road being almost like a -- through the entire County. Utilizing the parks. Getting with them on some of the ideas.

To brainstorm some stuff. Is that okay with you?

We will talk if you have time.

Okay --

I got an email from a Trudy Duffy. She is the chair of the [ Indiscernible ] they have money, is there anything that we need to do?

I know there were questions about -- I guess we'll could be done if -- not to keep the going but money is --

We actually initiated a letter to them when we were there may be leftover funds. That's we had graciously supported them in the transition we would like to speak to them when they are done. We got a formal letter of their attorney and that phone call. As soon as they have the final dollar amount we will sit down and speak.

Okay. >> Recently the house decided to take the local government rights away from stopping cracking. -- Cracking -- fracking. The Senate has slowed it down. You do not have to be for or against, I think it would be appropriate as a local government to fight for our right to decide one way or another. I still believe there are a lot of issues related to it still. As far as environmental tourism, that alone should be enough to be a guest fracking locally.

-- Against fracking locally. They are taking the local optioning away, elected officials in Tallahassee will vote in the way that they did in the house. It is what it is, I would like to take a formal position that we would not like the state to take over our right as a local government to make that type of the decision.

We are not trying to get on -- something like this weekend bring back at the next meeting. I can come up with some scenarios. Number 1 being against them taken away our local option to be a get something. And number 2 if the council wants to take a position against fracking.

At least giving you the time to research it. If that is okay with the Council, I will ask the staff to meet with the -- may.

No decision needs to be made today I do not know if you are up to date on fracking, it is not a every day County issue.

I have a comment, the bill that passed from the house side was to do a study. Bringing back the report on any impact or 2017. That is the bill that passed sorting through all of the language --

The language specifically said that they counting and the city could not restrict it.

I went have to --

Councilman Pat Patterson, did you check?

Dachshund the bill said that they were going to -- do the study on the implication to the environment and the water quality delivered I believe in 2017.

Doug Daniels do you have something --?

I think Josh has a good idea I spent a lot of time on oil drilling issue in 2009. I read so many books and studies. Long story short, if you do fracking deep down below the water underground, it is completely irrelevant that something has been done for many, many years. It is a fine. The problem with the fracking has got to be -- natural gas fracking.

Going pretty close to the water table and they are fracking that to get the natural gas. The people that I was working for, thought that was the dumbest thing that was ever heard of and that was an environmental disaster waiting to happen. We will see -- it was a problem in some places, it was the lateral natural gas fracking -- at least in my mind the real issues and I never saw a study that indicated that deep down -- fracking for the oil underneath 1000 feet underneath the water table made any difference.

What is says that the bill is to study and regulate hydraulic fracking and for bidding local governments from banning the drilling process. Most that appears to be the study but part of the study is banning us from having the ability to have the local system.

The perfect study, them a good. -- The lack of. -- The lagoon. I believe that the local County and the city should have the option. Hold on we need to have this looked at, you need to be having this as more of a local rule.

Anything like a lagoon, they are aquatic preserves all over Florida. No drilling in any of those -- we had a lot of restrictions.. You really need to look at study added to come up with an answer.

At least in my understanding it is the lateral fracking that is a bad thing. Again, my people in the oil business were not environmentalists thought it was the dumbest thing that ever was done -- lateral fracking for gas.

The people doing it grossly overstated the reserves. Dropping the price of gasoline but the reserves are not there. And number 2, there will be a price to pay.

Thank you.

I will not choose -- to fill does anybody today, please read up about in the next couple of weeks. Number 1, take a position for the local option to regulate. And number 2, the Council could be a guest fracking

I know we are not trying to put everything in one meeting.

[ Indiscernible-low volume ]

[ Indiscernible comment or question-not within range of microphone ]

Probably needs to be a short agenda item if we are going to talk about it.

Okay.

Absolutely.

The chair is back.

Do you need a minute?

I was going to talk about was this.

-- Homelessness.

Thank you for allowing me the time [ Coughing ]

On Sunday, was race day. Sorry I am out of breath running.

After we got done with the little meeting and greeting for everybody, the mayor said I need to talk to you. Number 1, thank you for the race track for accommodating us.

Mayor Henry made a proposal that I sent -- I would be willing to take it to the city Council. But I'm pretty sure they Council will stand fast on what they want. We said we would get land and a $4 million budget to build the building and do the English archer.

-- Do the infrastructure. He said that is fine but we are ready to go back except us we would like the Council to go ahead and prove $4 million over 10 years which is $400,000.

I am not sure that they will say yes. We are giving you land and building the building but you will have to do something with it.

We shook hands. >> In this morning's article, apparently I came up with the idea which is kind of weird -- believe me -- I have been telling everybody -- we will give you the land, build you the building but you have to get the Salvation Army or faith or somebody to run it.

I do not see us really needing to continue the process. It ends up being very expensive and something we do not want to get in the middle of.

I was going to tell everybody that earlier before I went to lunch.

That is the story and that is the way that it is.

Thank you Mr. Wagner.

Once again, I want to let the Council know, I cannot appreciate you more for the leadership over the last couple of years with this. Especially over the last couple of months. This has been a hard issue, it has. As of recently I do not know if you have seen the press conference, I have been getting beat pretty hard. Journalists asking me if I recruited gang members specifically a Crips member to enforce the safe zone at night. Where we were not trespassing people.

It was interesting to say the least, I will continue with my smile and take be high road. -- The high road. To me by the a lot more personalities to destroy that's the Council has been the good guy. Has always been responsible, professional, with their eye on the side of helping homeless. Family homeless $3.7 million helping them. And the partnership getting it going, we had been pushing it along.

Speaking to the mayor yesterday. It has been challenging with the things going on -- that can hurt your relationship. Working to make sure -- that we are good.

When I heard about the 10 years, $8 million. I will not lie, I immediately freaked out because I knew this was going to destroy -- I had a serious problem with that. This was going to blow up.

I called Derek and got the specifics, I got the email. Trying to figure out a way that's asking him what can he reasonably get done tomorrow night?

I will read a line for you, again this is something I will bring up as a suggestion. I cannot find the Council, -- bind the Council, I have always been sensitive to not put us in a position locking us into anything at all.

I have made that clear in any communications I have had. The $8 million operations over 10 years would be dead on for the Council. Everything that we have work for I was afraid that we were going to lose it. Based on the comments over the last couple of years, I kind of thought that.

So what I suggested was this, I told them we are pretty much what they are looking for we have already discussed. Things that we want in the context specifically. What I sent -- bullet points. Many of these are already in the agreement that they have in their hands.

What you will see, what I suggested to him is $1 million difference. Instead of $4 million it will come down to $5 million. The reason is, again trying to move this along. I have been assured that based on the

comments last night by the commission. This would get it done at the agreement will be signed by the March for

-- March 4.

Based on the email discussed, a contract could be signed by March for -- March 4.

I am not putting words in your mouth --

I will talk about the bullet points.

If you have a copy of those, --

I cannot print it.

I can forward you the email.

Why can't you print it, we have the new technology.

We have the technology. It is going to go to the email for Kathy right now.

While he is doing that, knowing the points that he put into his proposal was for the fundamental points of the number 1 point. They would own and design and construct. Do a covenant to the budget for all operating costs. He has the caveat of putting some operating funds for 5 years, only to be matched on what they put it which cannot be funds that we gave them. To -- they have to be the general fund.

This is in passing, understanding with Josh put on the table, what is your turn on that?

Obviously it is not official. It seemed logical it is something that we could put into the contract.

I will walk through it as they put it up.

The county will still provide the land..This is something you brought up, the county will not make the location contingent on the agreement of the city wanted it somewhere else.

The flexibility needs to be there and we would just keep the land.

The county will provide up to $3 million to the city, we will provide the city $3 million, they will design and build it. The last thing that we want is to build the building and have people complain.

The county would match the city of Daytona Beach general fund Chaucer fusion to the operation cost of up to -- $4000 per year for 5 years.

This is not need to specifically be the general fund, it has to be a fund that this I have any County dollars tied to it.

It does not matter what it is, it would not be fair to that CR eight dollars, or any type of funding set up or the citizens pay into it. It has to be a city match.

City of Daytona Beach will own the land and building, and the loop -- and fully responsible for the design, outfitting, they would backstop and guarantee the operational cost with a covenant to budget beyond any contribution from any third party.

Daytona Beach will provide the facility to accommodate $250 -- 250 people per day per their study, I do not believe that we should back off the March 4 deadline.

In the last 5 weeks there has been more happening with homelessness that I've seen in 7 years. That's partially because the Council has been together. Unified as a group to try to get this done.

I hope the Council -- I apologize in advance if you thought this was not appropriate. We continually being made the bad guys. I looked at this -- basically a 20% difference.

It can get it done. Derek the merrier assured me that -- the mayor assured me that it would get done.

Realizing that $40,000 is only a contribution of to what they contribute. What you are talking about here with the provisions in place. Which would only be two changes to the contract. Is the difference of $1 million.

Let me rephrase this, a potential of $1 million.

I want to see this thing through and get it done and I hope the Council are okay that I did it. And I hope that they can support. I really hope we do not act off March 4. -- Back off March 4. We need to get some help for these people.

I have a question.

And we say CRA, they have to be used within the area of the CRA, correct?

[ Silence ] >> I hear a lot --

The proposal here is not for CRA --

I understand that I'm trying to put the rest -- that we are going to use the CRA funds.

There are circumstances -- you cannot construct facilities outside of CRA. There is operational funds that could be spent outside.

I just wanted the clarification.

Mr. Wagner's proposal, goes past the CRA. Say that the county is putting in general fund money in -- at least -- perhaps [ Indiscernible-low volume ]

A contemplation and the city would put up its own non-CRA money. >> Actually we have done a draft in the basis of discussion with Josh. I am not sure that -- I will await your action to see if it needs to be revised. Before we send it to the city of Daytona Beach.

We do not want to backstop your agreement.

The cities will go on for the duration of the facility which is like -- 30 years.

You with contribute operational funds only for 5 years -- Q&A yes. -- 5 years --?

Yes and the city proposal was 10 years.

[ Indiscernible-low volume ]

I guess I have some questions.

If they put up $40,000 and I -- we put up $400,000, -- they will have to put up another $800,000 encourage you Grecians -- in contributions.

I think the contract language we have to put a provision in therefore --

I'm trying to figure out where they are going to get the other $800,000.

I thought it was only $400,000 other cities could put forth the money --

I do not know what they are going to be doing for a facility. I know what it is like to build a facility, this was back in the late 1980s. >> Building a facility around the gel for the prisoners who had been released and having a facility for that.

The flood zone -- to me there is concerns with it.

I am just wondering. I long thought that the EVAC building that would be an ideal place for them to use the facility.

We are looking at the elementary -- that is a little bit further away but still in the general area. There is a building that needs to be retrofitted out and get something ready to go.

The location is the most absurd location I can think of.

For a homeless shelter you will start reoccurring cost and I do not know about the bus service etc.

They will be pushing us for that.

It could increase ridership but it could cause problems.

That is my thought, I wonder if he could just throw that out -- I know one of the commissioners rejected it because it is in the persons district.

So -- you know -- as long as it is not in her backyard, it will be something else.

I think the first part Pat, it indicates not been stuck to the location. I personally think if that is thrown out -- you are considering throwing that out. Did you watch include that?

If you put a framework -- here is what I think that you do. If you decide on the outside framework. Allowing flexibility, we all talked until the shovel hits the ground. Bottom line now we had gotten past what I consider the biggest hurdle, they own it, operate it and be responsible.

When you own it and operated you may decide that there are other options. If we allow ourselves to be flexible if they can fit within the framework of why not allow them to do that?

I agreed -- I think that would be -- probably taking care of the problem at least not having to build something. It is going to take a while. Getting the architect involved, the land etc.

Having EVAC, what you could do with $3 million to outfit the building would be an amazing. You have the show of the building, you can do a lot of things in terms of how you set it up. You can do more than you could do with building an open building for $3 million.

I will tell you another thing -- if you have -- in the homeless shelters I have dealt with. You have to put in a lot of industrial washers and dryers. They do not have any place to clean their close. >> Here is a big one, big industrial freezers. It comes in bulk, the food. Somebody has a bunch of frozen stuff you have to be able to freeze it. If you take the $3 million, you could find that you would get way more facility -- I do not see a reason to not give them some flexibility as long as you get to agree. >> When we go back and forth with the specifics, it breaks up communication. They will have to come up with $1.2 million.

Whatever they think is right -- they are doing it, I think there is a good faith effort.

The lease that part of it --

I know for a fact there is potential that they will expand the opportunity with the Salvation Army, they will look at it as -- I would say if you give them the option, the only thing that you suggest

because it is your money, you get to sign off on it. It has to be a logical option. They will want to be responsible running it for the cost

If this those -- if this is the maximum that you will spend -- you have in capital, I think the suggestion is -- you will get a lot more for $3 million, look what we are doing at hope place?

We capture all of that value. >> I could not believe I heard what I heard, could not believe it when I make a phone call. The message that we sent. $4 million, land and no operational dollars

We came at the time certain, we are not there anymore. I guess I really struggling with this, I did it because contractual terms for compensation and the payment. The cities are not going to buy into this. >> There is still no action and we had been to the table. $4 million and the land. That is a good faith -- option -- I look at the contract that we got originally. That you sent the draft and the Safe Harbor agreement. We are asking a minimum of 30 years from the city. There is no way that I will agree to spend $3 million, $4 million, $5 million -- tax dollars if there is not a guarantee of where the gap funding is coming from.

They had not been able to get partners now in 1.5 years. Just because we come to the table with $1 million more, will not been performance -- for others to partner with us.

The only thing that will make this work, you will say fine -- the county is going to do it all.

Really, you know that.

That is a conversation that we all know the posture. In good faith, we have said there has to be a Brian. -- A Brian. -- A buy in. If we do not do that we are setting us up for failure. We are.

We may pat ourselves on the back. If we really care about the issue and the homeless -- we will not cloak it's -- it in a Band-Aid approach. >> I want more -- I want the same language that is in the $500,000 contract with Marchman, invoices, detailed explanation, projects must services, operations, performance -- I want this thing so documented. It has to be -- I am struggling with this. I want us to get to yes. But I have to tell you after watching Daytona Beach city commission, I was ready for a completely different conversation. Mr. chair I am glad that you can best explain your conversation, it gave the appearance that you agree to the $4 million plus $400,000 over the next 10 years.

It is a good thing that I just had one glass of red wine, I was by myself in my office watching this.

Josh I want to get there. Councilmembers I would do. -- Idea. We stood firm with the date and what we want to do. Just because there was a conversation, Mr. chair I think the direction that we talked about with

the Council. You were going to meet with the manager. And sit down and come up with an agenda for discussion not to negotiate the terms of the contract were going to be.

I thought we were just to the point in the agreement -- we agreed to set an agenda for future discussion not the tenants and changing the entire agreement.

I'm still up for the meeting, here is what I want us come to the table with what you have.

Not what you are going to demand from us.

It's just -- where are they going to get another $800,000, tell me this --

If they are willing to sign the agreement, I do not care.

Josh there is $4 million of taxpayer dollars --

No. They would have to agree to covenant the budget, anything that we have done, they are stuck. They are not getting out of it.

If they sign the agreement, rushed the assured -- rest assured, they are done.

The idea behind this, this is what I try to do. Get the Mayor to agree and city manager to agree I am tired of the wiggling and we are not going to do this or that.

At this point, if we do this, do not get me wrong -- I want to meet with them. What is there to meet about?

If we do this, we have literally done the meeting back and forth, just sign the agreement.

You do not lift any provisions, you state -- here it is. We have done everything.

Here lies the problem. I agree with you.

If you think government is the answer to the issue, we have lost. Government is not the answer to the homeless problem. The way that we are going.

If this falls under the city realm , the service agencies and how things will be performed. And the grants, that is a completely different Avenue going down this route.

City of Daytona Beach that owns this?

Absolutely.

Do they understand the implications of that?

From my understanding might -- the commission is ready. They say that this is a go.

That is what I have been told.

What we have to do at this point. They would have the agreement, I agree with you, absolutely you would have to have -- very specific provisions on what is expected of this facility.

It is on them to March 4, -- to March fourth, it has to be done.

I will not be voting to put more time, I am not [ Laughter ]

I cannot take this emotionally any longer, I cannot keep on doing this, it is driving me crazy.

Has to end.

Thank you. >> This is a tough issue. I would like to hear from the rest of the Council, where you are on this?

I do not know where I am right now.

Thank you.

Mr. Daniels.

I would like to thank Josh for his efforts at the revised proposal. There are ideas in there that are very good. Monday the elected official Roundtable, Ray sales order -- Salazar and Randy Quarry [ Indiscernible ] will present their proposal or outline of a plan in which was in the newspaper today.

They do not believe that Safe Harbor is a good idea at all and the city of Daytona Beach is going around to the same view. Hitting people into a -- putting people into that type of facility, 15% success rate and the other 80%-85% success rate.

They believe there is enough money in the system to make this work. Maybe a little bit of -- additional money will be needed perhaps, but not a payback breaking sum.

What we need to do is review all of the possibilities. And see what will work and not work. Make our decision based upon that.

[ Indiscernible ] did not have much faith and still does not. It did not seem to be reasonable to me that homeless people stay out in the middle of the County. That is what the plan is based on.

Moving it ends how maybe 15% success rate what you would get point -- .02% in the middle of the County.

I do not mind spending the money but I want to get opting for it. If you get something on the agenda and bring in various people and talk this through, coming up with an idea that may actually be helpful.

This is where I am coming from, I do not think we should sit and make a decision today, we should wait and hear all of this out.

In addition to coming up with the proposal, the other thing that Mr. Wagner has done, he is kept the pressure on. He has is people thinking , coming up with ideas that they would have not done without the pressure.

The city reacted well because of the pressure, Randy Quarry and Ray and they are doing this because of the pressure. I think you for what you have done Josh, let's see what the range of pot over these are, what money is attached to it before we go walking off of a cliff.

We keep on talking about $1.6 million but that did not include anything for Stewart Marchman. Who would be providing a lot of services, that was going to's -- going to cost a ton of money.

Are they happy with this?

I question whether they are?

We do not need to be making a decision tonight on anything, let's see what happens on Monday, let's that this on the agenda and let's talk about it.

Thank you.

Joyce Cusack.

Thank you Mr. chair.

Thank you Josh for your continued effort to try to get our arms around the homeless situation as it exists in Volusia County. >> We have a problem and is going to take cooperation and working together to all the problem -- to solve the problem. I was at the meeting with Penguins and -- Pam Woods and Randy and Jett at the same ones that were going to be presenting on Monday.

They were discussing the issue as a group not isolated alone. And I say to you that, they too want some answers and they want to get it right.

Now you know with homelessness we will never save 100%, there will always be homeless people. I take upon you to look at the fact that, we need to come to a starting point with the city of Daytona Beach.

We had indicated that we want to have a meeting together and we would talk about agenda items and where we are.

Nothing is set in blood.

We have -- sometimes you have to take a detour. Your ideas are what you anticipated for the outcomes. I know that to guarantee the funding, we live in this country, you cannot guarantee funding for anything.

You can have a strong estimation as to how you will get the funding but to be able to say that you will not make a commitment until you have a guarantee. It is not a part of the real world.

I want everyone to have buy-in, if you had been at the meeting you would've seen that the folks around the table, Daytona Beach including Pam who did excellent job leading the discussion. They have the wraparound services involved, they had the [ Indiscernible ] fixed for 90 days. They were working together about long-term solutions.

And they were doing it as a part of a team. It is not us and them. We as citizens of Volusia County have to work together to make this happen.

Stewart Marchman I go Bay -- way back. Have they always had the wraparound services, necessary offending?

When I was legislator they were always trying to get the funding. For the programs that were involved was Stewart Marchman.

There was no guarantee but they were working together and lobbying and making sure that the funding was there. Have a reach success?

We have come a long way.

They are the best thing going in my estimation. But I think we have to work with them. I am willing -- I do not know about anyone else here. I am willing to say to the city of Daytona Beach, take a look at this. And where are you as far as helping us to make this happen?

If they can sign on to this and we can sign on, the folks at the roundtable, the folks with Pam Woods. We can begin to move.

We are asking that they must sign the agreement by March 4. You are talking about a lot of things that could delay that being -- them being in the position to sign by March 4. We are putting up blocks through our success, for me I think that we ought to provide something.

I think that we need to make sure that we are at the table. It is not us against them. We are in this together, and everybody seems to be working together. We are on the outside.

We half to do better. -- We have to do better. The problem exist in every solution proposed to us, we find loopholes asked to -- what if.

What if we do not try anything?

Can we do something better than having the people at 250?

What if they moved to a different location?

What if we sit on our hands and not try to address the problem?

What if the other folks come in the spring of the year?

There are enough what if's to detain us for many years to come.

The first step of any journey has to begin. I say to you, we must begin. We must begin now.

Thank you Mr. chair. And I hope that we take this to heart and understand that if we are not a part of the solution that we too may be a part of the problem.

Mr. Wagner --

I was going to ask a question -- with some of the comments being made.

I agree with all of the comments. The only thing I would ask him up -- to go forward with the discussion so there is clarity. I think we could direct the stack to continue to work with the city -- start to work with the city staff. Implements the permit -- implementing the provisions bringing up today is the maximum point. Taking in all of our thoughts and Deborah Denys some of the things brought up at the -- put those in.

It is important that we get to a point, the provisions will be in the contract that -- but unless we have this Culliton of the numbers part of it, the $3 million building and the $400,000.

What it will come down to, they will not know that that is truly there. It will stall out the efforts, they will say that we are not committed. If we make the commitment, we will add that we what the specifics from their group. That is presently meeting to put into the contract. To do that we will have to have the basic provisions for the staff to start working.

Just so we can move this forward, does not mean that we cannot change it but that could be this Culliton that we start with -- the skeleton that we start with at least the numbers --

In response to that, I think we need to put it on the agenda. We have seen this tonight, there are a lot of people, a lot of people and other players that need to weigh in on this.

I am not interested in delaying this. It is not really one of the things that I want to talk about anymore. I was looking through my notes and the first time I heard about this was 3 years ago. >> It is time to get off and do something. And find out what they are willing to do, I am told reliably a lot of people that are being relied upon to perform in this are not going to do it.

Let's find out where we are before we start talking about terms. Then we can sit down and start talking about the terms.

The city has chased this balloon this barrage of -- marage of Safe Harbor.

Now we can start talking, we have wasted a lot of time while we are behind something that is not going to work.

The only issue is it is going to come back again.

They will not be able to put stuff together when they do not know -- I am not saying that we have to make a motion tonight and put it into writing. That there has to be indication from the Council, that it is potential. I am obviously on the record saying yes, I will support these provisions. But until we take a position they will continue to be in the states -- state of flux.

That is my concern.

If the current concern -- are we willing to spend money?

I'm willing to say tonight that I will spend money.

Are you willing to spend $3 million on a building, land and $4000 per year for operations.

I would like to see the program, the building of the shelter is the absolute least. If it is not transient, not something that is -- the kind of thing they had in mind. It is not going to work.

The lease what I am told by people who had been in the business for many years, it is not going to work.

I would like to see the entire program put together. How is it going to work and where with the money come from?

I willing to contribute the money. I do not think that we are far away from getting that done ago the idea of hiding the homeless in a swamp in the middle of the county. People begin to see that it is not going to work. >> My problem is I am gung [ NULL ] on getting this done . I do not want to get stuck in the weeds I'm in the global situation.

If you want to do this -- I feel obligated to do this.

Including the provisions that I have put up in the email, it is really only two things that are changing. $1 million less on building and up to $400,000 per year. All of the provisions are in. That would be my motion, everything else remaining the same.

I have a motion on the table, am I correct?

Yes.

To improve or directs staff to write the contract --

Everything is only in place the only provisions that are changed. We already have a contract with the city, changing the building from $4 million from $3 million. Including the provision from $400,000 for 5 years.

The change of $3 million and $400,000 per year in administrative costs.

You have the floor --

To make you feel comfortable it has to come back.

These would have to take place, you would have to be okay with the contract.

I want to see a shovel in the ground.

I have been listening here, the EVAC building outside of Daytona Beach?

Yes, Holly Hill.

If we are talking about $4 million -- the original agreement was -- land, $4 million. I was good with that.

You take it and run.

How much can you retrofits any building for $4 million?

It may have a building on it, you have the land -- I am leading in the way of -- we are giving you all kinds of options.

Do we have other buildings other than just the EVAC building that we could say, you know what -- this may be more suitable because of the larger square footage?

If in the decision if they start to come to the realization.

It can change significantly how they would do this.

What Mr. Wagner is getting at, if you latest outing of them flexibility. I think with the reality strikes I think that is what he is getting at.

What this really means -- they would have to decide they will own the problem and they will take the lead.

There are two issues, nobody wants to take the lead and nobody wants to pay anything.

Mr. Wagner says they will commit to taking the lead and they will have to pay the money. >> Mr. Wagner is doing he is trying to put a perimeter around this. Here is the dilemma.

If you send him this framework, and they reject it. I think you can talk until you are blue in the face and you will not go anywhere.

Mr. Wagner told me this.

You do what you have to do but this is what he is trying to say. We will make one modification.

He is let's believe if they make the modification they will come to the table and take ownership, put their covenant to the budget which is a big deal.

If they want other changes, if you allow them flexibility that says -- you have to improve the change, you will find out if you are in the ballpark in coming together. For all that I know you could send us down and they can reject it. And that you would have clarity.

The city manager agreed with that item -- it is not necessarily it --

There was no formal commitment.

You thought the elements that we asked for in the contract were rational.

Okay.

So -- is the rather -- places somewhere else that we could give them versus just --?

Their own multiple -- there are multiple places.

They have been shown property by a lot of people. Does say, quotation mark -- and they say, do I have a building for you.

When they take ownership for it and when they do that, now you are serious. If you think it is not going to work. They will look at a modification and if they have to get your approval, you have moved it along.

Thank you Josh. >> I do not want you to forget, $26 million we have invested into the homeless issue and to keep people from being homeless.

I agree with Deborah Denys and great -- completely.

I really need to see some sort of concept. A blueprint, a concept or anything versus -- here you go.

In the Army we have these old sayings, you plan your work, you work your plan, and you won't fail.

I would also like to see aced -- a time certain start and finish.

I do not want us to lay around over the next 5 years while we paid money to them. And then what happens in 5 years?

No. You would not pay that money.

You would pay it in payments as they do things.

You would never have an agreement like that, I think you could put the details in.

Let me see --

I'm writing these notes as we go along.

250 that's, -- 250 beds, is that enough?

You build it, they are going to come. You build a jail, it is going to be full.

Starting off with 250 and then jump up to 500?

I am just curious -- if anybody is really doing any real investigation into this.

There was 150 people over at beach Street.

They look at the beds, you will not help all of them. Over the course of a year, it is like [ Indiscernible ] the way that they rotate people through it is the rotational aspect of the numbers.

You cannot sustain a 500 bed facility not in this community. 250 is pushing it.

I thought about that and said, some people do not want help. Some people will be chronically homeless for ever.

I have met people I know a veteran that was homeless until the day that he died. >> I'll be really sure -- who is the city of Daytona going to get to run this thing?

I would like to have at least some sort of notion.

Halifax urban, Salvation Army etc.?

I would like to have an idea of who is running the show.

What is really important you have to make them ultimately responsible. If they own it, they can use who they want.

They have to own it, that has been the key.

And final comment on this one, when it came down to the mayor and all of that good stuff --

One moment.

[ Indiscernible-low volume ]

[ Indiscernible comment or question-not within range of microphone ]

We will take a recess before we vote for anything [ Laughter ]

The mayor came to me and I thought he talked to the city Council or something, that was a surprise to me. I said thank you, I will see you later I was ready to head over to the car.

He wanted to talk.

There was no deal made, I said I would bring a here to you, but I told them I had a feeling I knew with the answer was going to be.

I am like this -- I am like Deborah Denys. If we are going to go through this thing, I have some stipulations that I would like to see in the contract.

Who is really going to run it?

I know that they are going to own it and deal with it. Here is another really good question, whoever they get to do this, if they failed -- it is their responsibility?

Okay.

So the responsibility could be as far as -- closing the door, I cannot do this.

Can they lock the building up, there is no room, no vacancies.

My experience is that you can hold them that you cannot close them. Once you spend the money, there in my experience --

Not changing anything, walking away -- I do not think that is an option for most governments.

They will say find another way to do it.

I do not want to see anybody go bankrupt.

If they do not deal with the issue, they will bankrupt themselves. They have to deal with the issue.

That is my comment.

Fred Lowry you have your light lit.

It is not us against them but it feels like us against them.

We had been beginning 4 months -- for many months and doing our part. For that we are fussed at any cues. Now all of a sudden somebody wants us to do something. No operating costs, about half of that will go towards the operating costs.

I am sticking with the original agreement, I have not seen anything to make the change in my thinking it regarding that.

We're sitting in President, if you keep on punching SNF -- we are going to give in. It is slim that I would support this but if they come back with some really good details. I believe I could -- I could jump on board. As of right now, I do not see that this is that anything has changed for me to jump on board.

Josh you have been on the front line of that and I appreciate all of you hard work. We were pretty firm on the original agreement I was pretty firm.

Pat Patterson.

Josh I will hang in there with you.

[ Laughter ]

I will tell you --

It is amazing how fast the elementary project came together. It is amazing.

Decisions were make and working with people that -- they were ready to go.

I was really proud of our staff for that and the people coming together working on that particular one.

That program has a function and something that will take people who are willing to make changes and move on.

On the other hand, it is the other hand [ Laughter ]

[ Pause ] >> We really do not know what we are dealing with.

My experience going back 30 years ago. We had the mentally ill we do not know who will be going to the facility?

And how many will go to the facility saying I want to change my life?

I have seen people that have made the change. It takes a lot to do so. I have seen it within my own family.

It takes a lot of courage to state -- I have a problem and I will go over here -- go to the funny farm in 1985 as one of I family members

said. He has been off of everything that he could possibly get into his body and working with AAA for many years. >> Are they really going to change their lifestyle?

We do not know how many of those -- 250 if it is so, that are really going to do that to make a change in their lives.

Josh I am -- [ Pause ] -- [ Laughter ] -- I will follow you on this. I will not be on the surfboard my days of surfing are over [ Laughter ]

Let's move this question.

[ Captioners Transitioning ] >> The question has been called. The question is for approval of the contract with the changes listed here come which are $3 million -- the county will provide up to $3 million to the city for design and build of the facility and will match the Daytona Beach general fund contributions to the operational cost of up through $400,000 per year. The don't -- Daytona Beach will own the land in the building. I am just reading the list. Very well. All those in favor please signify by Ormond-By-The-Sea . All of those opposed? Let's see. This is the last 4. I am sorry. Is there any other -- [ Pause ] [ Laughter ]

I am going to move to the other side.

[ Laughter ]

Mr. Chair come we have one more meeting this month. I think the message from this Council is fill in the blanks before we get final approval. This is not a final know -- a final no. This is just come I am not there yet.

The question is -- [ Pause ] -- Are we going to have the meeting with them in the meantime? Is that where they have the opportunity to explain to us the specifics and why we should do it? >> My suggestion is if they ask you to me come you don't meet without an agenda. If you believe you are not going to own come operate a run the facility come I would say you would save everyone a lot of time by making that clear. If you don't make that clear you can avoid that discussion again because that is really the issue.

Does anyone want to make a motion?

I get the feeling from the left side of me --

[ Laughter ]

The left side is -- let's go back to the original offer. I move that we make the . million-dollar offer . We don't want to own it or run it. The land come with an option for the SunRail to center is a possibility -- EVAC center is a possibility.

That action is still alive.

Okay.

We still have to March 4 to make a decision.

What was that?

[ Indiscernible - speaker too far from microphone ]

I think it just says land. That could be. It says we will give you land and $4 million to do what you need for the infrastructure. It doesn't mean it has to be in the middle of the county. It doesn't say it has to be in the land or Daytona -- DeLand or Daytona.

I hope the option is there that they know the EVAC building is out there. There willing to put that on the table. I think that would take care of the problem although it may not be exactly where they were really wanted. I think trying to come up and build a building come you are looking at quite a while doing it. It's not like you're going to throw a tent up in the middle of the field .

There is the issue come Mr. Patterson . If you asked a homeless person if they want assistance come are they going to care if it is in a new building or an EFax building -- EVAC building or the gym at the Salvation Army? Those that want assistance that we can work with come and choose to have assistance come we are putting this parameter on this that it has to be a new building and it has to be this. It doesn't. We are coming up with these assumptions that are not accurate . It is just not accurate. There are folks come I am sure first-time homebuyers would like to have a brand-new home. Do you know what? If you buy one already on the market and renovated to what you want come that is what you do. Here is government trying to design something that I think the framework is all wrong . That is my opinion. I think it is all wrong.

I just want to make sure that the messages conveyed that the EVAC building is available. I want to offer come as an amendment to the existing motion on the table come for them to add the EVAC to the motion .

Make sure they know it is the old EVAC building and not the new one in the complex. [ Laughter ] Any other comment on this before we move on? Mr. Patterson?

[ Indiscernible - speaker too far from microphone ]

Okay. That was your last one?

Yes. I would like to ask permission to have Dan Eckert look at something. As we talk about homeless and the homeless problem come I think a lot of it has to do with economic development in downtown and especially Daytona on Beech Street. It has been tossed up a couple of times by me and a couple of people before me of developing city Island. I don't want to make a motion to develop city Island right now because that will create new issues. What I would like to do is finally get a determination. Everyone -- not everyone -- if you haven't heard --

there may be legal complexities were is doing private element on city Island. What I would like to do is look at how one would develop city Island based on this. I have heard we can't do it from different sites. I would like Dan to give his it -- his opinion on whether this could or could not be done. I am not saying to do it but I am wondering if we could do it if we wanted to.

Any objection? Was your light on for a reason ?

It was on for something previous. We have moved on.

Do you want to go back to these things?

No come I want to go home.

If there are no objections come would you please? Anything else?

Doug spoke the other night at the charter review commission about the sales tax. Does this Council want to give up on any conversation related to sales tax at all? I have some other ideas that haven't been discussed but I don't want to bore the Council if they just want to move on from this conversation .

No come I think it is still a possibility . I spoke with Dan quite a bit to see if we could create a transportation [ Indiscernible ] with sales-tax. We can't find anything that says we can't do anything but nothing that shows we can do it. Taking [ Name Indiscenible ] off of a tax role or -- there are some unique things. I am not going to talk about this tonight because everyone is tired but I may bring it up at the next meeting because it is worth discussing. I would rather use the money come honestly Doug come for certain projects but maybe this one would be -- come for certain projects -- come -- Doug, for certain projects but maybe this one could be worked on. What I brought up was simply from emails and it doesn't appear that this Council isn't against doing some of these specific items come they -- , they just want to hear the specifics of what would be done . I just wanted to be clear to the media . I don't think we are saying no. We are just saying give me more information.

I don't mind spending money. [ Laughter ]

I think that is positive for, I think the message should be that we continue to want to do something. We have continue to be positive. I hope the media sees that. Thank you.

Mr. Patterson commented Ms. Cusack go on her final comments?

No.

Okay. Mr. Wagner -- Mr. Patterson and then Ms. Cusack?

I have two things. One, this was brought to me by my wife who sits on the Board of Trustees of Daytona State College. They were talking about their Marine science operation building or whatever. Brad Giles brought

up that maybe the county could come with our Marine science program come do something jointly --, do something jointly. I think we have 1.1 or 1.5 in the budget. That is contingent on the legislature . I talked with a senator on Sunday night who admitted it was in there but it is still having to go through the appropriation process. I don't know if this is something that counsel would want to look at , or have staff look at the possibility. Are there any thoughts? >> [ Indiscernible - low volume ]

I don't want to have to sleep outside tonight.

I don't have a problem. We could make Pat sleep outside.

The cat sleeps better than I do. [ Laughter ] It may be something to look at and see if there is something we can do.

The last thing come last Sunday night when I was in Tallahassee come at the legislated --, at the legislative reunion come I was hunted down --, I was hunted down about the JJ lawsuit. He is carrying the bill . You wanted settled. -- He wants it settled. The offer on the table from him is that we would come -- would, it will be a 50-50 expense on juvenile justice, billed monthly instead of in advance . That was part of it. The other part of it was, you said that a lot of the counties stopped going for this agreement and have agreed to drop the lawsuit. That is part of the deal. I know Dan and I have talked about this. I know our legal department has a lot of time invested in this . From what Dan was telling me earlier, there were eight things on appeal. I think . of them were blended together or 5 -- five. >> . of them have to do with total years but there are eight cases total with the Court of Appeals. Six of the eight are set for oral argument three weeks from yesterday. The other two are not an issue. One is an issue in the other is waiting the filing of a reply brief in the next few days.

Senator Hugo called me yesterday and was talking to me about it too. She was advocating for us to do that. I did get another text message today, which for some reason -- this would be contingent on us dropping the lawsuit -- us dropping the lawsuit would be contingent on the bill being passed and signed into law by the governor . That would be an agreement that we would have on that , a resolution from us to drop the lawsuit . I would rather see counsel discuss this. It is an important issue. We might be going all alone. The others might take the deal and we will be out there. Senator [ Name Indiscenible ] has a lot of power and it looks like he is going to be the appropriations chair for quite a few more years.

That could come in handy.

It looks like he will have this term and then the next two years after that.

Ms. Denys? >> The request is to walk away from $12 million and they will make the distribution 50-50. That is such a deal.

The 50-50 deal based upon what was originally on the table, we would recover our $12 million , but it would only take 32 years. >> It is 35 years. 32 years makes me feel a whole lot better.

I know. I did not go up there to even progress deal. I was minding my own business, talking to some colleagues of mine and Jack was across the room and he saw me and came charging over and started talking to me. And then Tuesday morning, I was up in the capital having a little breakfast and he had a county commissioner from Palm Beach County, wanting to get this thing over with. They were going to sign on to the deal.

Here is the question. We go to oral arguments in three weeks Dan?

Yes.

Will a decision be made relatively soon then? How long does a strikeout?

It would be after the session come much --, much after the session.

I described the case in front of the first district. Then you have two years in administrative hearing process. Basically the cases sort themselves into arrearages from our a -- our perspective from 2008 -2009 to 2012- 2013. If you include the special relations -- stipulations, it's those years for a total of $12.3 million. If you subtract from that -- if you apply only amounts that the Secretary of juvenile justice approved in her final order, it is $9.2 million . The difference is the stipulations were contrary to law, she says, on the notion of what pre-and post final dissipation -- disposition is. Applying an estimate done by the $384,000, it's either you recover and assume that estimate is correct. That assumes 57% versus 50%. There is other adult -- other assumptions being adopted, and whether or not we are representative of 50% from -- 57% -- you pay based upon the usage of the prior year. It still varies by County. You have to have some analysis come some framework for analysis. It takes 32 years to recover $394,000. It takes 24 years to recover the same $394,000. That assumes -- the theory of our case is this ; they are required to give credit by that rule. If they would apply that rule, we would recovered over time. They say to will doesn't apply -- it all has to be revenue neutral. We are entitled to a refund. They say it has to be constitutional come --, it can't be constitutionally required and acts like a credit. That is what we think the remedy would be. A court could provide some of the remedy. Among those cases, we are challenging the bill that legislation passed last year that said that it could withdraw revenue-sharing. While the $12.3 million is at issue come -- at issue, I assume we recover some by nonpayment but I would soon part of the deal is we would repay the amount that we are supposed to. The other component of what is in front of the first district is that we say that the rule , which gets you to -- actually the legislature starts off with the premise of 57% . the will was drafted around that -- 57%. The rule was drafted around that. If you apply the current statute come

--, we think it results in a 65% split. In fact, if we win that , the $12.3 million would apply, because they are applying the rule retroactively to get to that reduction. We would not oh , -- we would not owe be 57% . If you assess this by the litigation analysis, I think it is not a good deal being offered to you. It is not entirely mitigation analysis. I think we have a good chance of recovering arrearages, and a pretty good rule challenge. We say that the rule challenge -- let's come back to that for a moment. . All of the juveniles that had been -- where a new offense has been charged, even if that new offense wouldn't result in detention on its own -- most of the time it doesn't. We say the assumptions that underlie that are irrational. Their risk assessment tells them that the child is -- they can tell you why a given child is being detained. You know why. -- They know why. The vast majority of cases, it is because of the underlying offense, not a new offense. I can tell you that we are making a good-faith argument come --, a strong argument , either a credit retrospectively or a refund, or we could lose, in which event this is all we have. In regard to the rule challenge, this states, it flips the percentage . Until a legislature sees fit to amend the statute, I think the 35% would apply. They start from the result and work backwards, at least in my view.

Cutting through it all , Councilman Patterson, the question is, if we don't agree to that, what is the jeopardy? What is the risk and reward? >> There have not been any threats . [ Laughter ]

I would not expect that to happen. Just calls --

Just phone calls.

I understand. >> The senator wants this thing over with. They had been dealing with this and he feels this is the best deal he can get through. Knowing him and how he works through the legislature , to the Senate, -- through the Senate, he is going to make this thing happen. It will happen, --

If it happens, we still have the lawsuit. It doesn't negate the lawsuit. Right? It does negate the lawsuit?

I think what you are being asked by the senator is that you dismiss your appeals and petitions for extraordinary remedies, and your petitions for administrative hearing, and remit the money that hasn't been -- money -- that hasn't been said but I would suspect we would need to remit it. For fiscal year 2013-2014 come I would assume --, I would assume they would have to do a final recommendation -- I think you are basically being asked to quit. The 50-50 split -- to be clear, 50-50 is between the state and counties collectively , the Lucia versus Flagler, our neighbors to the north and south. They are relative to the other fiscally constrained counties. This is based upon usage in a rear -- arrears . What the bill does is come --, to its credit, it takes all of the pre-and post-disposition days, puts it into a pool, does away with the estimate and reconciliation . This year it says you will pay as share of, I think it's $42 million retrospectively. After that it is

based upon the usage of the prior year. You are dividing -- the state is 50% and they pick up the share of the non-fiscally constrained counties which is a small number. -- I mean the fiscally constrained counties. The non-fiscally constrained counties, they are not at the 10 -- $10 million cap. The 50% of the secure pre-and post final dissipation -- this position, and you pay it retroactively. If there is a benefit from the bill, it is that you won't pay money that doesn't get refunded. This is partly how we got to where we are. On the other hand, it has its ups and downs because it is based on usage. We don't control it . It doesn't allocate this based on population or tasks millage or some other indicator. It solves the problem, from our perspective it increases the share that we owe him from the state's perspective it reduces the share that we owe. From the states perspective we recover 7% over a period of years. That works out to be 24 or 32 years, depending on your assumption. If it doesn't pass, -- [ Pause ] -- Maybe we will not have as good a time getting appropriations. We don't know. It's probably not a coincidence that the cost of secure juvenile detention was an act in 2004 when the article 5 implementation came fully into effect . But come -- on the other hand, we litigated the legislature 's attempt to transfer the cost of the regional conflict counsel to us [ Indiscernible - low volume ] If the bill is going to pass anyway, how do we keep our options open?

[ No Audio ]

I think the offer is if the bill -- the bill only passes if all of the counties give it up .

Are we the last holdout?

From what I am told from both senators come yes -- senators, yes. I can't confirm that. >> It was told by Senator Hugo that we possibly would be the only one left.

Manatee and Okaloosa have been withholding you may have cases similar to ours in the Circuit Court. We have challenged the clawback of the revenue share in the district car -- court to get a speedier disposition. Okaloosa and manatee did this in Circuit Court. There are a number of other counties on appeal. I have not had communication . They are mostly represented by one lawyer.

Tell me this, we were withholding payments and we agreed -- voted to continue making our payments to the state because we didn't want to be penalized for not doing that. In your estimation, can you within a degree of certainty, say that we came out better by continuing the payments or worse off?

We continued -- two years ago -- last year , we withheld after the first year, based upon the assumption that we still only owed something in the neighborhood of 32%. I think we were better off because of that. This year , the legislature reacted like taking our revenue share -- by taking our revenue share.

[ Laughter ]

Even though we pay? -- Paid?

That is one of the challenges.

[ Laughter ]

We paid two years ago. That is right.

Thank you. [ Laughter ]

Anything else ? Mr. Lowry ?

This sounds like a lose come lose -- lose, lose, maybe win situation. I never liked bullies and I don't like them in Tallahassee. I don't think they would try to pressure us away from this if they thought we were going to lose it. That is my gut feeling. I have never served in Tallahassee. Some have to may have a better idea. I say we continue on. That is my feeling. Thank you.

Did we make a motion on this? It has been a while. Was there a motion made?

We just asked the question. Did you make a motion?

I am asking.

I was going to make a motion that we continue with the lawsuit as we have been doing.

There is a motion to go along with -- I think all we need is direction -- or do we need a motion? >> I think it would give me something to take back to them at the Council.

Very well come I have a motion on the core. This is on the lawsuit for juvenile justice --, I have a motion on the floor. This is on the lawsuit for juvenile justice. Do I have a second? I have a second. Do we have a question. >> I have a question. Thank you. I just want to say that I believe that we should stay the course. I have been in Tallahassee. I do know that there are consequences for every action come a reaction. I am willing --, a reaction. I am willing to say nothing from nothing leaves nothing. I don't have a problem with staying the course with this lawsuit. Mr. Patterson was any -- on a different side of the aisle. >> I was on a different side of the aisle but I was in the front row.

[ Laughter ] I remember you were right in front of me.

I was still in front of you. [ Laughter ]

I learned the hard way. You do what is right and not what is popular. Thank you Mr. Chair.

Thank you. Mr. Ragnar and Mr. Daniels? -- Mr. Wagner and Mr. Daniels?

I would probably be more in line with settling. My concern is if they are going to be up there to make decisions later on with things that we ask for, -- [ Pause ] -- I know.

It's called appropriation.

It just worries me. It is hard enough that I don't think they are doing -- this is hard enough as it is. I don't want to cut off our nose to spite your face.

Mr. Daniels? >> I am with Mr. Patterson on this one. I think if they were going to be fair, if they were going to do anything reasonable, they would've done it by now. They are not going to. If we continue on with this, they are going to exact their pound of flesh. You need to think about that. Thank you.

Mr. Patterson? >> I keep seeing this little thing in front of me in thinking that I am on.

You keep pushing the button.

Is it like the yellow dot on your phone?

That's one of my favorite songs. [ Laughter ] I want to teach it to my grandchildren and my wife says no. Can you imagine again daycare singing? [ Laughter ]

I have to hear this phone ring tone one day. You still have the floor.

I really didn't want to tell everyone this is what you should do. I wanted councilmembers to think this thing through. I am in the mood for settling. I have the utmost respect for our team of lawyers over there and Dan and what they are doing. I think this thing needs to and and that is why I won't support the motion. Thank you.

The motion is on the floor to stay the course and continue with the lawsuit against juvenile justice . All those in favor please signify by aye . All those opposed? >> Ms. Denys come Mr. Daniels come Mr. Patterson is against -- Mr. Wagner come -- Mr. Ragnar, are you -- Wagner, are you for or against? , It sounds like -- it sounds like it is 5-2.

Mr. Chair, can we take this vote again?

The motion on the floor is to stay the course on the juvenile justice lawsuit, try to get the $15 million back. All those in favor please signify by a hand raise at this moment. All those in favor, raise your hand. We have 3 [ Foreign Language Being Spoken ] It. All of those opposed raise your hand. The motion fails, Ms. Denys come Mr. Daniels come Mr. Patterson and Mr. Wagner -- Mr. Daniels, Mr. Patterson, and Mr. Wagner are against it.

To be clear --

Just stop. We do need direction.

The proposal that has been offered to you -- to file notice of dismissal tomorrow morning --

Mr. Patterson , you want to make a motion, I think.

You are probably going to need some help in crafting this motion . What the senator said that would make a contingent on the fact of the bill passes -- passing and signed into law by the governor . We would agree when those conditions were met, then we would withdraw.

So we don't dismiss tomorrow.

Mr. Patterson, some of that was all of the other counties agree. But now you have to argue this case. [ Overlapping Speakers ] speak -- >> Thus far I have gone on the basis of your direction. We have a brief that was being edited. I think I have to file that to keep the issue preserved . I think the county could move for continuance of argument but we don't have control over all of that. The issue is -- was set by the court . If the other counties -- if there are other counties involved in three of the years -- if the court doesn't movie oral argument -- move the or your argument -- oral argument, we would go through the oral argument, or we can dismiss regardless . There is only so much I can control. In other words, we are not the only party . If it was just us in the state, the court would be more inclined. If there are other counties that do not agree, I can't guarantee what would happen. We will do our best to effectuate your action . If your motion is to preserve the appeal, depending on the appeals and administrative cases, pending on the outcome of the legislative session and the governor's approval .

I guess the motion would be -- may I help you on this? The motion would be to continue the course except in the event that the senator's law gets past. Is that it in a nutshell?

I think Mr. Patterson is saying -- Mr. Patterson, I think you are telling me not to dismiss until there is a known outcome, and to take action to continue it -- to facilitate that. I am just telling you that I don't have control over all of that.

There is another outcome. First we need the bill to pass and also all the other counties need to settle. What ever we want to doing the interim come we need to do.

Is that your motion?

That is the motion.

Do I hear a second? I hear one from Mr. Daniel. I'm going to ask Mr. Wagner, are you ready for this one? [ Laughter ] I didn't call for a

vote yet. He raises his hand. [ Laughter ] We are going to go for the question. All those in favor of directing staff to continue the course unless there is a known outcome by the state legislature to pass the bill -- am I correct? Help me out.

It would better to say settle contingent.

I'm not a lawyer.

Settled contingent on the passage of the legislation and signing by the governor into law that we would agree to dismiss --

We would at that time agree to dismiss.

If all of the other counties settle also -- that is the motion made by Mr. Patterson. There is a second. That sounds like something I wrap my ring around. All of those in favor please signify by aye . All of those opposed? That carried unanimously. Is that it Mr. Patterson?

That is it. >> Ms. Cusack you have the floor. I know it has taken us quite a long time to get here. But I know the journey has been worth the wait.

I have no comment. All of my comments have been made. It is time to go.

My turn. I have only got one item with 15 subclauses. I only actually have one thing. Everyone has the County Counsel assignments. Is everyone satisfied with the assignment. Is to Wagner come are you satisfied? -- Mr. Wagner, are you satisfied? Ms. Cusack, are you satisfied? Mr. Daniels? Mr. Patterson? Mr. Wagner , what say you? Are you happy with your assignments? Did you get these?

[ Indiscernible - speaker too far from microphone ]

On the record --

I was wondering why there was some -- if there was some reason I only had two assignments and you had 5 or Mr. Chair -- 5 or 6 Mr. Chair.

Would you like one? I have Ms. Denys ' . Calm down. [ Laughter ] You would like career source?

Yes.

So be it. I will send you over to career source. It is hereby noted. I actually like that duty .

I am sure I will like too come Mr. Chair. Enqueue. -- Thank you.

I like that work is there anything else? Mr. Wagner? [ Laughter ]

[ Indiscernible - low volume ]

I don't want that one. [ Laughter ] Ms. Denys come you have six. Would you be so kind?

[ Indiscernible - speaker too far from microphone ]

What would you like? Any of them? All of them?

[ Indiscernible - speaker too far from microphone ]

This is as it stands. There has been one change for the record. Ms. Cusack has picked up career source and I may drag one away from Ms. Denys later on. I know this is going to be painful.

Two quick comments , this is really important. I will make it short but it is a serious problem. I want to thank you Mr. manager. I am are Carl with [ Indiscernible - low volume ] I need to add one thing -- I am Carollo with [ Indiscernible ] any to add one thing. [ Indiscernible - low volume ] There are several bills in the House and Senate that limit the use of funds for the Ocean Center tax dollars. They dealt with -- the way it was structured come we were not -- structured, we were not included. This was approved yesterday by the tax and finance committee, that includes language that could be detrimental to the Ocean Center. I would like permission to oppose anything really with the Ocean Center in this legislation .

We are going to limit the funds for the -- [ Indiscernible ] they are going to make us use funds -- I think this is bad legislation. There are going to take away our ability to use the funds as we want to for the Ocean Center. It's going to require us to unnecessarily spend general fund money that we can't afford when we have taxes we should be able to use.

What are they going to take the money for?

They are going to make us use it for advertising. They are going to make us use it for law enforcement perhaps. There going to take away our ability to use it for these expenses.

You are talking about tourist dollars.

We will come up with an analysis. There is no way that we will not fight this. We need to do an overview. [ Overlapping Speakers ] this is a big chunk of how you run the operation center. We will give you a better analysis later. There is no way anyone on this Council would not want me to go forward and fight this. It could really hurt us.

Is this part of the package or separate?

This is part of the comprehensive tax bill that was approved yesterday by the house. The Senate probably will not take this up .

It is pretty bad.

We should have a guard on that date.

We should not take any action without being aware. -- Date -- gate .

We should not take any action without being aware of this.

We did not have an interest in moving forward with the discussion with the agencies. We will not pursue that. The majority of people -- didn't really want to deal with it so we let go. Last but not least -- [ Overlapping Speakers ]

She should be running in here. She is in a race car uniform.

[ Indiscernible - speaker too far from microphone ]

She is wearing the wrong shoes.

[ Indiscernible - speaker too far from microphone ]

Not for driving a race car or running a race.

We will give you a two second update.

Joanne Ackley communication manager. I am a little nervous because I am wearing a race suit in front of you all. Really quickly come -- quickly, we have exceeded the goal of 2500 runners. We have 2544 people registered . 1394 of those are for the half marathon come 130 --, 130 for the relay, 1024 the track . We are taking reservations tonight until 11:59 as well as Saturday and Sunday on-site registration. This will be at 10:00 until final, -- 5:00 at the Raceway and also Sunday morning. Joey is going to address the runners before the race. Jim Payne is also going to be there to help pass out awards to everybody. That is it.

I am going to help him pass out awards. Joanna showing the uniform that they where. -- wear . The whole races high-quality come first class. We believe this is the start of something really big. We have more than doubled the number of people that we have ever had in the race before. We think we can meet the goal which is a really big deal. The Speedway is very much excited about what they see going on.

These are the uniforms for 50 people that are course marshals and various race staff to identify them. We are all pumped. This is excited. This is going to be a great event.

We are all jazzed up. That's all I have. Mr. [ Indiscernible ] do you have anything ? When is the next meeting. The 21st come 22nd come tomorrow morning? It is tomorrow morning. -- The 21st, 22nd, tomorrow morning? It is tomorrow morning.

February 18 0900 hrs. , unless there is an objection we are adjourned.