usa v kent hovind trial transcripts (5 of 8)

7/21/2019 USA v Kent Hovind Trial Transcripts (5 of 8)

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IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT5 5 A M FOR THE NORTHERN DISTRICT OF FLORIDA

PENSACOLA DIVISION

UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, ) )

Plaintiff, ) ) CASE NO. 3:06cr83/MCR vs. )

) KENT E. HOVIND ) Pensacola,Florida and JO D. HOVIND, ) October 30, 2006

) 8:00 A.M. )

Defendants. ) ______________________________)

VOLUME VI

TRANSCRIPT OF TRIAL PROCEEDINGSBEFORE THE HONORABLE M. CASEY RODGERS,

UNITED STATES DISTRICT JUDGE

(PAGES 1 thru 302.)

APPEARANCES:

FOR THE PLAINTIFF: MICHELLE M. HELDMYER, ESQUIREAssistant United States Attorney21 East Garden Street, Suite 400Pensacola, Florida 32502

FOR THE DEFENDANT ALAN S. RICHEY, ESQUIREKENT E. HOVIND: Alan Richey, P.A.

331 Sentinel Firs Road, #APort Hadlock, Washington 98330

FOR THE DEFENDANT JEROLD W. BARRINGER, ESQUIREJO D. HOVIND: Jerold W. Barringer,P.A.

102 South Pine StreetNokomis, Illinois 62075

Gwen B. Kesinger, RPR, FCRROfficial United States Court Reporter

Pensacola, Florida 32502


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1 I N D E X5 5 A M

2 WITNESSES PAGE

3 SCOTT SCHNEIDER

4 Direct Examination By Ms. Heldmyer: 20Cross-Examination By Mr. Richey: 161

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Gwen B. Kesinger, RPR, FCRROfficial United States Court Reporter

Pensacola, Florida 32502


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1 (Court in session.)5 5 A M

2 (Defendants present.)

3 THE COURT: Good morning. Is everyone feeling

4 healthy? Mr. Barringer?

5 MR. BARRINGER: Yes, I am. Thank you, Your Honor.

6 THE COURT: All right. Ms.Heldmyer, let me start by

7 asking you as far as scheduling, where you are.

8 MS. HELDMYER: Your Honor, I think we'll probably be

9 resting sometime maybe midday tomorrow.

10 THE COURT: Mr. Richey, are you going to proceed

11 first, you and Mr. Barringer, in terms of defense?

12 MR. RICHEY: Yes, Your Honor. And we have issued

13 subpoenas, and I have been in contact with a number of them.

14 So. . .

15 THE COURT: Please do have your first witnesses ready

16 to go midday tomorrow.

17 All right, then. Let's turn to the jury instructions.

18 And on Tuesday afternoon, I believe you received an updated

19 packet of jury instructions. So hopefully we can work from

20 that. As I indicated to you when we last spoke about jury

21 instructions, I would walk through this packet with you, and

22 we'll just take it one instruction at a time. Starting on

23 page 1, I assume there is no comments or objections to that

24 instruction. The next two pages --

25 MR. RICHEY: Your Honor, actually, I don't know if --


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1 oh, nevermind. The changes, you mean.0 2 A M

2 THE COURT: Okay. And the next two pages pertain to

3 the series two instruction, and it will depend on whether the

4 defendants testify, which version is used. Page 4 is the

5 Court's instruction on reasonable doubt.

6 MR. RICHEY: Your Honor, just on that last page 4.

7 THE COURT: Yes.

8 MR. RICHEY: The very last word, I feel it might be

9 more appropriate instead of saying so, say no, because it's a

10 negative. If you're not convinced, say no.

11 THE COURT: Well, then I would need to change the

12 sentence before that, and say if you are convinced, say yes.

13 I'm not going to do that. We'll leave it the way it is. This

14 is right out of the standard instruction, and I think it's

15 clear what it's asking the jury to do.

16 The next instruction, page 5, standard. Any comments

17 on that instruction? This is on page 5. It's patterned basic

18 instruction 4.2, circumstantial and direct evidence.

19 The next, page 6, instruction on credibility of

20 witnesses. All right. Similar to basic instruction two, the

21 six series has several versions. And, again, it will depend on

22 whether or not the defendants testify, whether or not the

23 defendants have any prior felony convictions, whether any of

24 the witnesses who've testified have prior convictions or

25 inconsistent statements. So that will depend on what the


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1 evidence shows.0 4 A M

2 Page 13 -- unless there is any comment there. Page 13

3 is expert witness instruction, and I don't know whether that

4 will be used or not. We'll wait and see.

5 All right. The next instruction is the 404(b)

6 instruction which has been modified. This is essentially the

7 instruction that has already been given as to prior acts. And

8 if you will recall -- and I'm hoping I got this witness' name

9 correctly. Is it Darlene Porter?

10 MS. HELDMYER: It is, Your Honor.

11 THE COURT: There is testimony from Ms. Porter about

12 the prior real estate transaction, and then there's been

13 testimony from Special Agent Schneider regarding Mrs. Hovind's

14 involvement in the motions to quash. And those limiting

15 instructions have already been given, and this is basically

16 reissuing that instruction. Ms. Heldmyer.

17 MS. HELDMYER: Yes, Your Honor. Did the Court give a

18 limiting instruction also with regard to that county court

19 record where Mr. and Mrs. Hovind both rescinded their name from

20 the county court record?

21 THE COURT: You know, I did. And that would need to

22 be included here. I appreciate that. I did -- I believe I did

23 give that instruction.

24 MS. HELDMYER: I believe so, Your Honor.

25 THE COURT: All right. That should be added here,


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1 then. Thank you. That had to do with the power of attorney0 6 A M

2 and revocation of signature.

3 MS. HELDMYER: It was filed with the county clerk, the

4 court clerk and the --

5 THE COURT: Okay.

6 MS. HELDMYER: If the Court is interested in

7 typographical errors, there is one or two in here.

8 THE COURT: Yes. Most definitely.

9 MS. HELDMYER: Just a small thing on the second line

10 of the second paragraph where it starts, "As I instructed you,"

11 it says Ms. Hovind. There should be a period after the Ms.

12 The one, two, three, four, five -- the fifth line down

13 that same paragraph, it may read better if the Court ended the

14 sentence after "Internal Revenue laws," period, and then,

15 "Therefore, you must not consider." It seems a bit of a run-on

16 sentence.

17 THE COURT: All right. A comma might have fixed it,

18 too, but I think it does read better that way. So there will

19 be a period after "Internal Revenue laws" and the next sentence

20 we'll start, "Therefore, you must not consider."

21 All right, then. The next instruction is page 16,

22 pattern instruction on note-taking. Then we begin on page 17

23 with the introduction to the offense instructions, and this is

24 essentially a summary of the charges. And you will see some

25 strike-throughs which indicates that the Court will not be


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1 giving or will not be reading that language to the jury in the0 8 A M

2 instruction, unless you wish to be heard on it. Mr. Barringer.

3 MR. BARRINGER: And I don't know whether the other

4 parts that are not normal print, meaning that they are --

5 THE COURT: They are shaded, yes. Well --

6 MR. BARRINGER: By "currency transaction."

7 THE COURT: Right.

8 MR. BARRINGER: Does the Court plan on reading that?

9 THE COURT: Yes, but I don't --

10 MR. BARRINGER: But not the statute.

11 THE COURT: If there is a line through the language,

12 for instance, you'll see in the third full paragraph, the end

13 of that third full paragraph, "Which were due and owing to the

14 United States of America by failing to file the appropriate,"

15 yada, yada, yada, I don't intend to give that language.

16 MR. BARRINGER: Okay. And that doesn't apply to my

17 client, that part of that paragraph.

18 THE COURT: Well, I just used it as an example.

19 MR. BARRINGER: Right.

20 THE COURT: But, no, I will not give in Counts 13

21 through 57 on the third line down of Section 5313(a), no, I'm

22 not going to give that.

23 MR. BARRINGER: Okay.

24 THE COURT: I identify the statute, the pertinent

25 statute when I instruct on the actual offense count. So it's


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1 not necessary.0 9 A M

2 Okay. Page 19, Ms. Heldmyer, do you wish to be heard

3 on this instruction?

4 MS. HELDMYER: I do not, Your Honor. It's acceptable

5 to the government.

6 THE COURT: Mr. Richey.

7 MR. RICHEY: Yes, Your Honor. I note in the first

8 paragraph it has FICA, and then in the third -- fourth --

9 actually down from the fourth paragraph where it says, "First,

10 the defendant," and then it says, "pay over federal income or

11 Social Security," and it has Medicare crossed out. I believe

12 that the evidence is that the FICA is both Medicare and Social

13 Security. Is that correct, Counsel?

14 THE COURT: I think that is correct.

15 MS. HELDMYER: That is correct. It is both.

16 THE COURT: We should be consistent. And that's why

17 Medicare was initially added. I added it, and then I went back

18 and reread and wasn't sure it was necessary. But I need to be

19 consistent when I instruct the jury. And because FICA is

20 Social Security and Medicare, is there any objection to me so

21 indicating in the beginning?

22 MS. HELDMYER: I have no objection, Your Honor.

23 THE COURT: All right. Then at the beginning of this

24 instruction, I will amend here and I will add "willfully

25 failing to collect, truthfully account for and pay over federal


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1 income tax and Social Security, Medicare," and then in1 1 A M

2 parenthesis, I'll put FICA. Does that solve --

3 MR. RICHEY: That's one thing.

4 THE COURT: -- that issue? Okay.

5 MR. RICHEY: And --

6 THE COURT: Oh, I apologize, Mr. Richey. Let me jump

7 ahead of you for a moment. On the next page, the same change

8 will be made, same issue.

9 All right. Mr. Richey.

10 MR. RICHEY: I'm just trying to look real quick at

11 something.

12 THE COURT: Mr. Barringer, while he's doing that, do

13 you have anything you wish to comment as far as this

14 instruction? It doesn't pertain to you.

15 MR. BARRINGER: It doesn't pertain to me. And I note

16 in that first paragraph that I'm guessing that the Court struck

17 through that because it seemed to be redundant.

18 THE COURT: Yes, I just reworded it.

19 MR. BARRINGER: But I'm wondering if that last

20 sentence shouldn't be there just to make clear that it's each

21 quarter constitutes a separate and distinct crime, just to

22 hammer that point home to the jury that in terms of how Counts

23 1 through 12 run, that it is broken down into -- it's just

24 three years in quarters of time. I'm wonder if that last

25 sentence shouldn't still be there anyway.


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1 THE COURT: All right. I'm going to leave it as it1 3 A M

2 is. I think it's clear. And I do instruct the jury as part of

3 the instructions at the end that they are to consider each

4 count separately and each count must be proven. I think it's

5 clear enough.

6 Mr. Richey.

7 MR. RICHEY: I don't see anything right now, Your

8 Honor, aside from what we've already discussed.

9 THE COURT: Okay. You've had several days to get

10 ready for our conference this morning.

11 MR. RICHEY: Right. No. I'll have more further on as

12 we get to Court's instruction 11.

13 THE COURT: Okay. All right. Well, we're not there

14 yet.

15 All right. The next page is page 21, and this -- it

16 was the government's proposed instruction. I think that's been

17 pretty much addressed in the instruction that we just dealt

18 with.

19 Over to page 22, 23 and 24, let me -- these

20 instructions -- these proposed instructions by the defense are

21 covered in the instruction that we just went over, unless there

22 is something that you think is different or -- Mr. Richey.

23 MR. RICHEY: Well --

24 THE COURT: And I think you probably know the

25 government charges in the conjunctive, but they prove in the


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1 disjunctive.1 4 A M

2 MR. RICHEY: And, Your Honor, I believe that that's

3 going to then create an issue, because it says that the duty to

4 collect, account for and pay over, and the issue there arises

5 that, you know, you can't account for and pay over if something

6 wasn't collected.

7 THE COURT: Well, that's one of the instructions that

8 you've proposed, but there is no -- let's look at that. I'll

9 have to jump ahead for a moment. That's on page -- page 28.

10 There is no case authority offered by you as to this statement,

11 and I don't know it to be an accurate statement of the law.

12 MR. RICHEY: Okay. That goes to actually who had the

13 duty.

14 THE COURT: Well, what you just said was that if no --

15 if no tax was collected, then there is no duty to pay over.

16 MR. RICHEY: That's the way that the statute -- well,

17 that's just the basic procedure. I think as the statute reads

18 in the conjunctive, you have to first be able to collect it,

19 and if nothing is collected, then you can't account for and pay

20 over something that's not collected.

21 THE COURT: Well, I disagree. And there is no case

22 authority cited for that. I'm not even sure I follow the

23 argument. If the employer -- if the employer doesn't collect

24 the tax, then he doesn't owe the tax. That's the argument?

25 MR. RICHEY: Not precisely. If nothing is collected,


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1 aspect of it. The duty has to arise from some other provision1 9 A M

2 of Title 26. The same is true for Medicare and Social

3 Security. So those are each separate and distinct, because the

4 duty would arise from a different provision that Congress

5 passed.

6 THE COURT: So is this, Mr. Richey, the argument that

7 employers don't have to pay employment tax under the code?

8 MR. RICHEY: No, Your Honor. It just merely goes to

9 specifically defining where the duty comes from.

10 THE COURT: How would any employer, then -- how would

11 any employer be required to pay tax? This is the statute that

12 pertains to employment taxes, is it not?

13 MR. RICHEY: No, Your Honor. This is only

14 the criminal -- this is only the pertinent statute that

15 imposes a criminal penalty for failing to fulfill this duty.

16 THE COURT: Let me rephrase my question. Is this the

17 argument that employers cannot be criminally liable for the

18 failure to pay income taxes?

19 MR. RICHEY: No, I'm not raising that.

20 THE COURT: Then, what argument are you raising if

21 this statute that applies to criminal liability for employers

22 and employment taxes?

23 MR. RICHEY: Correct. This is the statute that

24 imposes criminal liability on the failure to perform these

25 statutory duties, but this particular statute does not impose


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1 that duty. For example, nowhere in this statute -- another2 0 A M

2 allegation is that each count is for each tax quarter, and

3 nowhere in this statute, 7202, does it say that it's due and

4 payable, that they have to collect for each quarter, that they

5 have to pay over each quarter. Nowhere in this statute does it

6 impose a duty to file a form 941, and that that must be filed

7 quarterly. So there has to be some other statute that says

8 that employers are required to collect on a quarterly basis the

9 income tax.

10 THE COURT: All right. Let me hear from the

11 government.

12 Ms. Heldmyer.

13 MS. HELDMYER: Your Honor, that's what's covered -- as

14 we move a little bit farther forward, covered by Court's

15 instructions No. 11 and 12. Those are the correct statements

16 of law in terms of the duty that is, in fact, imposed that is

17 made criminal under 7202. So I think that as we move ahead,

18 we've got it all covered, and those instructions are correct

19 statements of the law.

20 THE COURT: All right. We'll get to those. Let me

21 proceed through the pages as they are numbered. And then,

22 Mr. Richey, we can revisit when we get to those instructions,

23 because I do think Ms. Heldmyer is correct, that they are

24 covered there. And I think page 25 relates to the same

25 argument. Am I right, Mr. Richey?


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1 MR. RICHEY: Yes, Your Honor.2 2 A M

2 THE COURT: All right. Page 26 and page 27, page 28,

3 again, those proposed instructions from the defense were

4 accompanied by no case authority. All right. Let's look then

5 at page 29, which is basically a restatement of the

6 government's proposed instruction. I think it's verbatim.

7 It's close. If it's not -- the proposed instruction on page 30

8 which comes from a Supreme Court case and the CFR. This has to

9 do with the employer. And then over on page 31 and 32 deals

10 with the duty.

11 All right. Mr. Richey, is it your position that these

12 are not accurate statements of the law or something other than

13 that?

14 MR. RICHEY: Well, the issue arises, for example, on

15 the first one. It says the law requires every employer of

16 labor to deduct and withhold income taxes from the wages paid

17 to employees. And I would note that on the government's

18 proposed, they indicate 26 U.S.C. 3101, which I'm assuming that

19 is the statute that they are then saying imposes the duty to

20 deduct and withhold the income taxes. Then it says -- the

21 following paragraph says the law also imposes on the income of

22 every individual a tax equal to a specified percentage of his

23 or her wages. And on that one, Your Honor, I'm not sure what

24 specific provision imposes that duty. I mean, they also have

25 listed on page 30 certain CFRs.


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1 THE COURT: All right. Well, Mr. Richey, I'm going to2 5 A M

2 short-circuit this. I've considered this from basically the

3 outset of the trial, this issue as far as what imposes the duty

4 upon the defendant and whether the defendant can be liable --

5 criminally liable under the statute, 7202. And in my opinion

6 what you're making is a constitutional argument to the statute

7 and the application of the statute to Mr. Hovind. And you're

8 going to have to save that for the appellate court, because I'm

9 going to deny your request for these instructions. The

10 instructions as proposed on -- the government's proposed

11 instructions, page 30 and 32, I have reviewed these cases cited

12 as well as the CFR cited, and they do state accurately what the

13 law is.

14 MR. RICHEY: Okay. Your Honor, if I could just point

15 you to one other provision. For example, it says on the third

16 paragraph, every employer, therefore, must deduct withholding

17 taxes, Social Security taxes, and is required to file for each

18 calendar quarter a form 941. Section 26 U.S.C. 6071 says when

19 not otherwise provided for by this title, the Secretary shall

20 by regulations prescribe the time for filing any return,

21 statement or other document required by this title or by

22 regulations, which then -- and, Your Honor, it's not a

23 constitutional argument. It's just to clearly define what

24 statute or what regulation imposes the duty and imposes this

25 requirement, for example, to file a form 941 each quarter.


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1 That does not come from the statute. So the question is: What2 7 A M

2 regulation imposes that duty?

3 And since Congress has said if it's not otherwise

4 provided for in this statute, then the Secretary shall do it by

5 regulation. So the government's burden then comes to show

6 either what statute or what regulation imposes that duty. And

7 so without -- I don't believe that the government has shown and

8 that there is any evidence that there is any statute or a

9 particular regulation that imposes the duty to file a form 941

10 on each quarter.

11 THE COURT: Have you reviewed the Supreme Court case

12 that's cited here?

13 MR. RICHEY: Slodov?

14 THE COURT: Uh-huh.

15 MR. RICHEY: I haven't reviewed that in particular,

16 no, but --

17 THE COURT: Well, that case makes it --

18 MR. RICHEY: -- Congress said that -- I'm sorry.

19 THE COURT: Well, that case makes it clear there is a

20 duty, and Congress has then said that where the employer fails

21 to do so or fails to adhere to that duty willfully, there is

22 criminal liability.

23 MR. RICHEY: Okay. So, then, that will all come down

24 to the willfulness provision in proving the statute.

25 THE COURT: There is no question the government will


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1 have to prove willfulness, and I believe that will be the issue2 8 A M

2 in this case, and as it is in most of the tax prosecutions.

3 Your objection and statements are noted on the record,

4 Mr. Richey, but these two instructions will be given based on

5 the law as cited therein.

6 Ms. Heldmyer, was there anything that you wish the

7 Court to take note of as far as those two proposed

8 instructions?

9 MS. HELDMYER: No, Your Honor.

10 THE COURT: I will make the minor edit about Medicare

11 here just to be, again, consistent.

12 MR. RICHEY: I'm sorry, Your Honor. I would also note

13 one other thing, U.S. v. Mersky, 361 U.S. 431, page 437, it's

14 1960 case where the Supreme Court defines -- and this is

15 relevant because the government has included in here specific

16 CFRs, regulations, that an administrative regulation is not a

17 statute, and that the statute without the regulation is

18 meaningless. And so that ties them both together as far as

19 Congress stating, okay, here's a duty, and the Secretary then

20 defining that more particularly with the regulation.

21 THE COURT: The pertinent statute is 7202 in the

22 Court's mind. That's the statute that the Court is looking at.

23 MR. RICHEY: Is the Court saying that 7202 is the one

24 that imposes the duty to file and collect?

25 THE COURT: 7202 is the criminal statute at issue


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1 here. The duty exists through the CFRs and this case, Slodov,3 0 A M

2 that I have reviewed, which maybe you should take time to

3 review as well.

4 All right. We need to stop for now and bring the jury

5 in. It's 8:30. I'm not going to be able to discuss these

6 further during lunch today. I have something else I have to

7 attend to during lunch. However, we will pick this back up at

8 the end of court today.

9 Your first witness. Agent Schneider. And I'm going

10 to have you resworn.

11 THE WITNESS: Yes, ma'am.

12 MS. HELDMYER: Your Honor, is this a problem for the

13 Court for me to use this chair for the box of evidence that I'm

14 going to be using?

15 THE COURT: No.

16 MS. HELDMYER: Thank you.

17 (Jury present.)

18 THE COURT: Good morning, and welcome back. We are

19 now ready to proceed, ladies and gentlemen, with the case of

20 the United States versus Kent Hovind and Jo Hovind. We're

21 still, if you recall, in the government's presentation of its

22 case. And Ms. Heldmyer is ready to proceed this morning with

23 the continuation of her direct examination of Special Agent

24 Schneider.

25 If you would please rise to be resworn.


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1 SCOTT SCHNEIDER, GOVERNMENT'S WITNESS.3 3 A M

2 DEPUTY CLERK: Do you solemnly swear that the

3 testimony that you shall give will be the truth, the whole

4 truth and nothing but the truth so help you God?

5 THE WITNESS: I do.

6 DEPUTY CLERK: Please state your full name.

7 THE WITNESS: Scott Schneider.

8 THE COURT: Ms. Heldmyer.

9 MS. HELDMYER: Thank you, Your Honor.

10 DIRECT EXAMINATION

11 BY MS. HELDMYER:

12 Q. Good morning, Special Agent Schneider.

13 A. Good morning.

14 Q. I believe when we last left, we were talking about some

15 evidence that you seized pursuant to a search warrant that you

16 served at Creation Science Evangelism, or CSE, on April 14th of

17 2004; is that correct?

18 A. Yes, ma'am.

19 Q. All right. I believe we've already admitted a number of

20 documents that you had seized during the execution of that

21 search warrant. We're going to continue with that now. And

22 I'm going to show you what's been marked for identification

23 purposes as OBS-60B, as in boy. Do you recognize that

24 document?

25 A. Yes, ma'am, I do.


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Schneider - Direct 21

1 Q. What do you recognize that to be?3 4 A M

2 A. To be a blank copy of a non-disclosure agreement found at

3 the search warrant in the bookstore office, in the desk of

4 Tanya Hovind.

5 Q. Why was this particular document relevant to you when you

6 were serving the warrant?

7 A. This document in particular was part of a group of

8 documents showing the current organizational structure of

9 Creation Science Evangelism.

10 Q. And do you recall the testimony of Diane Cooksey?

11 A. Yes, I do.

12 Q. During the course of this trial?

13 A. Yes, I do.

14 Q. Do you recall any reference made by her about signing a

15 non-disclosure agreement?

16 A. Yes, ma'am. As a matter of fact, I recall that she

17 indicated after the search warrants, she was required to sign

18 one in order to continue her employment there.

19 MS. HELDMYER: The United States would offer OBS-60B

20 into evidence.

21 THE COURT: Any objection?

22 MR. RICHEY: No, Your Honor.

23 MR. BARRINGER: No, Your Honor.

24 THE COURT: Thank you. It will be admitted.

25 BY MS. HELDMYER:


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1 Q. Special Agent Schneider, we're now looking at the document3 5 A M

2 in full. I'll slide it down a little bit so we can see the tag

3 number. This is called a non-disclosure agreement. You

4 indicated that this was blank. Let's go down -- before we read

5 a portion of it, let's go down to the bottom of this document

6 and see -- can you show us where, if we know, anyone in

7 particular that was to sign this document, if it were executed?

8 A. Here, you could see that the name Glen Stoll, director and

9 general counsel of Remedies of Law was one of the parties that

10 would have been required to sign this document.

11 Q. Do you know from some of the other documents that you may

12 have seen that were filled out, who else would have been the

13 signature to this document?

14 A. Some of the other documents I've seen included the

15 signature of Kent Hovind as well.

16 Q. And there are actually three additional signature blocks on

17 this particular document. Who else would be signing these

18 documents?

19 A. The party making the agreement, whoever the employee was,

20 and I don't know what the other signature line would have been

21 for. Possibly a witness.

22 Q. Now, I'll scoot that down. Okay. If you'll just read

23 those first two sentences for me, please.

24 A. "Each of the undersigned parties have disclosed, or may yet

25 disclose to one another, certain confidential information or


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1 A. Yes, it was.3 8 A M

2 Q. Where did you find this document?

3 A. In the bookstore office with the other document that we

4 just saw, in the desk of Tanya Hovind.

5 MS. HELDMYER: United States would offer OBS-62 into

6 evidence.




10 THE COURT: That will be admitted.

11 BY MS. HELDMYER:

12 Q. Let me zoom out so we can see the entire document. There

13 is a letterhead on here. Would you read that for me.

14 A. Yes. The letterhead is entitled "Remedies at Law, Glen

15 Stoll, director and general counsel."

16 Q. And an address and telephone number in Edmonds, Washington?

17 A. Yes, ma'am.

18 Q. And this document is called what?

19 A. "Mandatory Banking Guidelines for Ministerial Accounts."

20 Q. Would you read it for me.

21 A. "It is always important to make a dignified and

22 professional impression when handling our affairs. Remember,

23 you are representing a ministry under church jurisdictional

24 authority that is fully separate from the secular state. Do

25 not do anything unusual. You are unusual enough already. One,


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1 Q. Do you recognize this document?4 1 A M


3 Q. This is a one-page document. Was that something you seized

4 during the search warrant?

5 A. Yes, it was.

6 Q. This is a letter addressed to a Maury Adkins. Do you know

7 who Maury Adkins is?

8 A. Yes, I do.

9 Q. Who is he?

10 A. He is an individual that was at one time under the employee

11 of Kent Hovind.

12 Q. Where specifically did you find this document?

13 A. This was in the bookstore office, their executive office in

14 an undetermined desk in the northeast corner of the office

15 building.

16 MS. HELDMYER: The United States would offer OBS-109

17 into evidence.




21 THE COURT: 109 will be admitted.

22 BY MS. HELDMYER:

23 Q. This is a letter from the United States Senate, dated

24 June 14th, 2004, and signed by whom, sir?

25 A. Senator Bill Nelson.


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1 Q. To Mr. Adkins. Would you -- it's just a short letter.4 2 A M

2 Would you read the body of this letter, please.

3 A. Yes, ma'am. "Thank you for contacting me with your

4 concerns about the Internal Revenue Service and our federal tax

5 system. The IRS stresses the need to maintain public

6 confidence in the fairness of our tax laws and is committed to

7 ensuring that everyone pays their fair share of taxes. For as

8 long as the income tax has existed, various groups and

9 individuals have advocated and promoted willful noncompliance.

10 The courts have repeatedly rejected their arguments as

11 frivolous and routinely impose financial penalties for raising

12 such groundless defenses.

13 "I appreciate you voicing your concerns and encourage you

14 to contact the IRS directly or visit their website at

15 www.IRS.gov for clarification on any questions you have

16 regarding specific tax laws. Please don't hesitate to contact

17 me with any future concerns."

18 Q. And, again, the date on that is?

19 A. June 14, 2004.

20 Q. Did you see any evidence, Special Agent Schneider, that

21 CSE, Creation Science Evangelism, actually sold items there

22 from the premises that had to do with an antitax message?

23 A. Yes, I did.

24 Q. Let me show you what's been marked for identification

25 purposes as OBS-110. Do you recognize this document?


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1 A. Yes, I do.4 3 A M

2 Q. It is a one-page document. Is it something that you found

3 during the execution of the search warrant?

4 A. Yes, it is.


6 into evidence.

7 THE COURT: Any objection to OBS-110?



10 THE COURT: All right. That will be admitted.

11 BY MS. HELDMYER:

12 Q. Okay. We have a document, the top word says?

13 A. Taxes.

14 Q. Okay. And would you read that top paragraph for me,

15 please.

16 A. Yes, ma'am. "Here at Creation Science Evangelism, CSE, we

17 love the Lord and our country. We encourage everyone to obey

18 the law, including the government. During my 15-hour seminar,

19 I have a three-second statement that many people are paying

20 income taxes voluntarily. Because of this, many thousands of

21 people have contacted our office for more information. We are

22 not afraid of the subject, but simply do not have time to fight

23 all of the battles in the world.

24 "A 30-page letter on our website www.drdino.com, in the

25 miscellaneous section of the frequently asked questions,


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1 explains all I know on the topic. We do make available a4 4 A M

2 limited amount of material on the subject, as listed below.

3 However, please do not contact our office about this topic, but

4 consult one of the experts on the next page instead. We hope

5 the information here will be helpful to you."

6 Q. Okay. This document is not dated in any way. Do you have

7 any idea when it was created?

8 A. I know that this document -- the items on this document

9 were on the website for sale around the time that the

10 investigation started. So I know during 2001, 2002, all these

11 items there were for sale.

12 Q. All right. There are a number of documents here. Are you

13 familiar with all of these documents or videos?

14 A. Yes, ma'am, I am.

15 Q. Okay. Are you familiar with the video by Dr. Joe Sweet?


17 Q. Have you seen that video?

18 A. Yes, ma'am, I have.

19 Q. And where did you actually see it? Where did you get it?

20 A. Well, I got a copy from Kent Hovind's office when -- during

21 the search warrant.

22 Q. What is the subject matter?

23 A. Like it says, it 's two-and-a-half hours long of an

24 individual standing up and explaining why --

25 MR. RICHEY: Objection, Your Honor, hearsay.


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1 MS. HELDMYER: Perhaps, Your Honor, if we just gave --4 6 A M

2 well, Your Honor, I'll move on.

3 THE COURT: Sustained.

4 MS. HELDMYER: I'll withdraw the question.

5 THE COURT: Okay.

6 BY MS. HELDMYER:

7 Q. You indicated you've seen the rest of these items as well?

8 A. Yes, ma'am, I have.

9 Q. Okay. The general description that's given in this -- on

10 this document, OBS-110, is it generally a correct description

11 of the contents of these documents or videos?

12 A. Yes, ma'am. The strawman video, it doesn't really explain

13 it, but the other descriptions are pretty accurate of it that

14 contain -- what each one contains.

15 Q. And in that same light, Special Agent Schneider, let me

16 show you what's been marked for identification purposes as

17 Government's Exhibit INC-190. 190. Do you recognize that?


19 Q. What is it?

20 A. It's a catalog for Creation Science Evangelism that was --

21 THE COURT: What is the prefix again?

22 MS. HELDMYER: This is INC-190.

23 THE COURT: Thank you.

24 BY MS. HELDMYER:

25 Q. Where did you find this document?


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1 A. This was found in the bookstore office on one of the4 7 A M

2 bookshelves.

3 Q. In the bookstore of?

4 A. The bookstore office -- the former bookstore that became

5 the executive offices of Creation Science Evangelism.

6 MS. HELDMYER: Okay. We would offer INC-190 into

7 evidence.

8 THE COURT: All right. Any objection?



11 THE COURT: INC-190 will be admitted.

12 BY MS. HELDMYER:

13 Q. I'm just going to hold this up quickly so we can see. This

14 is a catalog with various items in it; is that correct?

15 A. Yes, ma'am.

16 Q. With glossy pages. It's got -- let me see. The last page

17 has a sale of T-shirts and hats. This is page 39 of the book.

18 A. Yes, ma'am.

19 Q. The second to the last page. Is this consistent with the

20 kinds of things that you saw actually being sold?

21 A. Yes, ma'am. Yes, ma'am.

22 Q. Okay. This particular one -- this particular page had a

23 sale on ties. What does that say down there?

24 A. It says, "Get the package," and it shows an item number,

25 $40 for all three ties.


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1 Q. Okay. And we've got the T-shirts and the hats on the final4 8 A M

2 page. Let me just zero in on one of those. Just kind of read

3 some of those that the T-shirts -- the subject matter of the

4 T-shirts.

5 A. Yes, ma'am. I mean, it's creationist in nature. It

6 shows -- the back of it showing, "The big bang theory is just a

7 dud," and, "No blast in my past."

8 Q. In the -- towards the center of this catalog is -- it

9 appears to be an order form; is that correct?

10 A. Yes, ma'am.

11 Q. Okay. And then I'm going to flip to page 25 in the

12 catalog. It says, "Evolution, a new world order." Do you see

13 that?


15 Q. And that -- do you recognize that particular book?


17 Q. Is that something that we just saw in OBS-110?

18 A. Yes, ma'am, it is.

19 Q. The bottom one, "Seven men who rule the world from the

20 grave," do you see that?

21 A. Yes, ma'am.

22 Q. What is generally the subject matter of the books on this

23 page?

24 A. Generally anti-government in nature, government conspiracy.

25 Q. And the next page we have got three others we've seen


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1 before, "In Ceasar's Grip," "Hush Money," "The Shadows of5 1 A M

2 Power." The same subject matter?

3 A. Generally, yes, ma'am.

4 Q. Did you find any documents, Special Agent Schneider, that

5 outlined Mr. Hovind's personal background?

6 A. Yes, ma'am.


8 purposes as Government's Exhibit OBS-119. Do you recognize

9 that?


11 Q. What is it? Where did you find it?

12 A. It is the -- a resume belonging to Kent Hovind, and it was

13 found in the main house office in the same cubical where we

14 found a lot of the other IRS information, the Cooksey cubical

15 in a file cabinet.


17 into evidence.





22 BY MS. HELDMYER:

23 Q. This is a one-page document, Special Agent Schneider.

24 We've got some personal information here. It's entitled what?

25 A. "Resume, Kent E. Hovind."


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1 Q. Okay. All right. Take a look at the educational section5 2 A M

2 of the resume.

3 A. Yes, ma'am.

4 Q. Can you point out where it indicates the highest degree

5 that Mr. Hovind has obtained?

6 A. It shows a master's of arts that's been completed, and then

7 it shows a candidate for doctor of philosophy.

8 Q. And then it 's got some other experience in here. Do you

9 see anywhere on here where Mr. Hovind had earned a doctorate?

10 A. No, ma'am.

11 Q. Now, Special Agent Schneider, have you -- are you familiar

12 with the transaction that Darlene Porter testified about, about

13 the purchase of property surrounding somewhere close to

14 Creation Science Evangelism property?


16 Q. And do you recall the address of the property that

17 Mr. Hovind purchased from Ms. Porter?

18 A. 5720 North Palafox.

19 Q. Were you able during the course of the search warrant

20 and/or subsequent to the search warrant, by way of subpoena,

21 were you able to determine how that property was paid for?

22 A. Yes, ma'am, I was.


24 purposes as INC-86C. Do you recognize that document?



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1 Q. What is it?5 4 A M

2 A. It is a check written on the CSE Enterprises bank account

3 for --

4 THE COURT: Just one moment. Let her --

5 MS. HELDMYER: I'm sorry.

6 THE COURT: Let's get it introduced before he talks

7 any more about it.

8 MS. HELDMYER: Yes, Your Honor. We will offer INC-86C

9 into evidence.




13 THE COURT: 86C will be admitted.

14 BY MS. HELDMYER:

15 Q. All right. I'm sorry. Please continue.

16 A. This check was found, like a lot of the checks that we've

17 seen, in and around -- in the file cabinets right near Jo

18 Hovind's desk at 29 Cummings. And this check right here

19 represents a purchase by cashier's check, which was ultimately

20 part of the total payment for the 5720 North Palafox property,

21 as you see down here at the bottom.

22 Q. All right. Were you able to obtain records of the

23 remainder of the money that was used to purchase that

24 particular piece of property, 5720 North Palafox?

25 A. Yes.


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1 Q. How were you able to obtain it?5 5 A M

2 A. I believe by subpoena, we obtained the additional

3 cashier's -- or additional checks that we did not have. The

4 $100,000 check that was used to purchase a cashier's check for

5 the remainder of the property, I believe we got by way of

6 subpoena.


8 purposes as Government's Exhibit INC-86D, as in dog, front and

9 back. Do you recognize that document?


11 Q. Is that a copy of the check that you obtained from AmSouth

12 Bank?

13 A. Yes, it is.

14 Q. Does that check have something to do with the purchase of

15 Darlene Porter's property?

16 A. Yes, ma'am. And you can see it is stamped. It was used to

17 purchase another cashier's check and --

18 Q. Hang on.

19 MS. HELDMYER: Let me offer INC-86D into evidence,

20 Your Honor.




24 THE COURT: 86D is admitted.

25


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1 BY MS. HELDMYER:5 6 A M

2 Q. This one is obviously not the actual returned check. This

3 is a copy of the check that you obtained from the bank; is that

4 correct?

5 A. Yes, ma'am.

6 Q. Okay. This says $100,000, written by who?

7 A. Jo Hovind.

8 Q. And can you make out the date?

9 A. It looks like May 31st, 2001.

10 Q. And it has the address there in the notation box?

11 A. Yes, ma'am.

12 Q. And then the back of it is signed by?

13 A. Jo Hovind.

14 Q. And you indicated what was purchased with this money?

15 A. A cashier's check. And you can see down here at the

16 bottom, that small bank indicator indicates cashier's check.

17 Q. Okay. Hard to see on the screen, but you've seen this

18 check before, correct?

19 A. Yes, ma'am. Right there.

20 Q. Okay. Now, how are you able to piece this together as the

21 money that was used to purchase Darlene Porter's property?

22 A. Well, they were all done within the same time frame, and

23 there were other documents that were found that those all came

24 up with the total price, as indicated by some other documents.

25 Q. Let me just put this on here together. Are they dated the


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1 same time?5 7 A M

2 A. Yes, ma'am, they are.

3 Q. And do you know why there are two different checks here --

4 I mean, why the one for $100,000 and one for 26,391.35?

5 A. Yes, ma'am, because they came out of two separate accounts.

6 The one at the bottom came out of a money market account that

7 was opened shortly before the property purchase, and the other

8 one came out of the main business account.

9 Q. Do you know anything about that money market account?


11 Q. Were you able to obtain documents regarding the creation of

12 the money market account?

13 A. Yes, ma'am.


15 purposes as INC-86E, which is a series of documents starting

16 with that one, and then going to a certificate of origin,

17 authenticity and that. Are those documents that you obtained

18 via subpoena from AmSouth Bank regarding Mrs. Hovind's money

19 market account?


21 MS. HELDMYER: The United States would offer

22 Government's Exhibit INC-86E into evidence.





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1 A. Is U.B.T., unincorporated business trust.0 0 A M

2 Q. And in your experience, do you know what an unincorporated

3 business trust is?

4 A. Yes, ma'am.

5 Q. What is it?

6 A. It's purported to be a trust.

7 MR. RICHEY: Objection, Your Honor. He's speculating.

8 THE COURT: Ask him for the source of his knowledge in

9 terms of his experience.

10 MS. HELDMYER: Certainly. Certainly, Your Honor.

11 BY MS. HELDMYER:

12 Q. How do you know about unincorporated business trusts?

13 A. Through reading materials through this case and other

14 similar cases that have been presented by people that advocate

15 the use of these organizations as legitimate.

16 Q. Is this something that you have studied in your line of

17 work as a special agent with the IRS?

18 A. Yes, ma'am.

19 Q. And does it have something to do with people who take

20 antitax views?

21 A. Yes, ma'am.

22 MR. RICHEY: Objection, Your Honor.

23 THE COURT: Overruled. You can answer the initial

24 question.

25 BY MS. HELDMYER:


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1 Q. Okay. Please then explain to us your understanding based0 1 A M

2 upon your experience of what an unincorporated business trust

3 is.

4 A. It's a business entity that someone can create that's

5 purported to allow them to not have to incorporate and put

6 their assets and maintain control of their organization in a

7 trust status without actually the trust having to be recognized

8 by the IRS.

9 Q. Let me slide down. This is the money market account,

10 correct, at AmSouth Bank?

11 A. Yes, ma'am.

12 Q. And we've got two -- we have -- this is the signature card,

13 right?

14 A. Yes, ma'am.

15 Q. We have two names down here. Who are the names that are

16 signatories on this account?

17 A. Jo Hovind and Martha A. Harris.

18 Q. And this, can you read that for me?

19 A. Yes, ma'am. It's, "Without prejudice, UCC 1-207."

20 Q. Down here, it indicates a signature of customer, correct?

21 This is a certification?

22 A. Yes, ma'am.

23 Q. Of what, certification of what?

24 A. That they have provided the correct tax identification

25 number or they are waiting for one to be issued, and that they


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1 are not subject to backup withholding.0 3 A M

2 Q. Okay. Now, is this -- is this part of -- is this part of

3 the normal form, the account package form?

4 A. As far as I know, that bottom part is, yes, ma'am.

5 Q. And it says, "I'm not subject to backup withholding

6 because," and I don't know about whether you can read that or

7 not, if I try to zoom it in.

8 A. It says, "A, I am exempt from backup withholding or, B,

9 that I have not been notified by the Internal Revenue Service

10 that I am subject to backup withholding as a result of failure

11 to report all interest or dividends, or, C, the IRS has

12 notified me that I am no longer subject to backup withholding."

13 Q. Okay. And then it says note. Can you read that?

14 A. "You must --"

15 Q. Cross out.

16 A. "-- cross out item 2 above if you have been notified by the

17 IRS that you are currently subject to backup withholding

18 because of underreporting interest or dividends on your tax

19 return."

20 Q. And it's signed?

21 A. Jo Hovind.

22 Q. And is anything crossed out there in No. 2?

23 A. No, ma'am.

24 Q. And it's dated?

25 A. 10/17/2000.


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1 Q. Were you able to determine from records that you saw during0 4 A M

2 the search warrant how that money market account was opened or

3 with what funds it was opened?

4 A. Yes, ma'am, I was.


6 purposes as Government's Exhibit INC-185 and INC-186. Do you

7 recognize those?


9 Q. Are those original checks that you seized in the search

10 warrant?



13 Government's Exhibit INC-185 and 186 into evidence.

14 THE COURT: Any objections?



17 THE COURT: Those will be admitted. Thank you.

18 BY MS. HELDMYER:

19 Q. Would you explain what we're looking at here, please.

20 A. Yes, ma'am. The top check is a check dated October 16,

21 2000 in the amount of $50,000 that was used to initially open

22 the money market account as listed in the description section

23 below. And then the bottom check was a second check deposited

24 to that same account in the amount of $50,000 as well, in

25 December 12, 2000. Both of which checks were written on the


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45/302


1 the screen?0 7 A M

2 A. Yes, ma'am.

3 Q. And were you able to determine looking at the bank records

4 when that money was withdrawn through the money market account?

5 A. I believe that this was one of the few uses of this account

6 at all. And after these were deposited, the $100,000 was

7 withdrawn at the time to use to purchase the 5720 North Palafox

8 property.

9 Q. That would be INC-86D; is that correct?

10 A. Yes, ma'am.

11 Q. All right. Did you see documents when you were serving the

12 search warrant wherein members of the business, of CSE, would

13 describe the roles of Mr. and Mrs. Hovind with regard to CSE?

14 A. Yes, ma'am.


16 purposes as Government's Exhibit INC-191A, B and C. Do you

17 recognize those documents?

18 A. Yes, ma'am.

19 Q. Did you find those documents in the search warrant?

20 A. Yes, ma'am. I did.

21 Q. Where did you find them?

22 A. Around -- in the desk area of Jo Hovind.

23 MS. HELDMYER: The United States would offer INC-191A,

24 B and C.



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1 MR. RICHEY: No, Your Honor.0 8 A M


3 THE COURT: Those will be admitted.

4 BY MS. HELDMYER:

5 Q. Okay. Let me straighten this out here. This is INC-198A,

6 that we're looking at. It says -- it's a letter, Baptist

7 Hospital, name, Jo Hovind. It's dated 10/2/2002, correct?

8 A. Yes, ma'am.

9 Q. Okay. This indicates what right here?

10 A. That they are sending information to Mrs. Hovind for her to

11 fill out to request financial assistance to pay for medical

12 bills.

13 Q. Okay. The second page appears to be what?

14 A. A response -- letter to Baptist Hospital with the signature

15 block of Martha Harris showing as CSE Trust secretary.

16 Q. Now, the 191A asks for -- let's see -- financial assistance

17 application. And then would you read that paragraph for me,

18 please.

19 A. Yes, ma'am. "Please note that in order to process your

20 application, we will need total number of household members,

21 the relationship of household members, and proof of income for

22 required members of your family. Also, if you are currently

23 unemployed, you may receive a printout from the unemployment

24 office stating that the wages earned against your Social

25 Security number in the last four quarters."


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1 Q. And then we go back to 191B, which is dated what?1 0 A M

2 A. November 20, 2000.

3 Q. Would you please read -- actually, why don't you go ahead

4 and read that.

5 A. "This letter is to confirm that Dr. and Ms. Kent Hovind do

6 not earn salaries. Their needs are provided by Creation

7 Science Evangelism. Such items as housing and transportation,

8 et cetera, are provided in exchange for their work, the

9 Creation Science Evangelism.

10 "Mrs. Hovind has been unable to fulfill all her workload

11 due to an injury in December 1999. She is still undergoing

12 care by several doctors in hopes of ending her pain in the

13 coccyx and sacrum.

14 "As health insurance is not provided for this couple at

15 this time, we wish to request any benefit you could offer that

16 would help with this major medical expense. We will continue

17 making payments of some amount until the balance as you request

18 is paid in full. However, we appreciate any assistance that

19 you could give them."

20 Q. All right. The last page of this appears to be what?

21 A. The actual application for financial assistance.

22 Q. Filled out by whom?

23 A. Jo Hovind.

24 Q. And indicates -- would you read that for me.

25 A. Yes. It says, "Patient guarantor household income, last 12


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1 months prior to date of service," and it shows none.1 2 A M

2 Q. And employer?

3 A. None.

4 Q. And down here, please.

5 A. Yes. It says that the following items were not applicable,

6 with the N/A: Copies of three most recent pay stubs, previous

7 year's income tax return, written verification of wages from

8 employer, written verification from a public welfare agency or

9 any other government agency which can attest to income status

10 for the past 12 months, and forms for approving or denying

11 unemployment compensation.

12 Q. And then right there?

13 A. It says, "Please check the proof of income you will have --

14 you will have provided to the hospital in order to be

15 considered for financial assistance," and it has N/A.

16 Q. And a certification?

17 A. Yes. It indicates that, "I, Jo Hovind, certify that the

18 above information is true and accurate to the best of my

19 knowledge. Further, I will make application for any

20 assistance, Medicaid, Medicare insurance, et cetera, which may

21 be available for the payment of my hospital charges. And I

22 will take any action reasonably necessary to obtain such

23 assistance and will assign or pay to the hospital the amount

24 recovered for hospital charges."

25 Q. Okay. And the date on this that this was signed is what?


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1 A. October 13, 2000.1 3 A M

2 Q. We just looked at INC-185 and 186, the checks to open the

3 money market account. This is dated October 13 of 2000. Let

4 me show you INC-185. What's the date on that $50,000 check

5 that was used -- that Mrs. Hovind used to open a money market

6 account?

7 A. It's three days later, October 16, 2000.

8 Q. Now, Special Agent Schneider, did you seize documents in

9 evidence that would show any other types of expenditures by the

10 Hovinds during the relevant time period we're talking about

11 during this trial?

12 A. Yes, ma'am, we did.

13 Q. Did you see money that would go into the business and flow

14 through the Hovinds to their children?

15 A. Yes, ma'am.


17 purposes as INC-89A. Do you recognize that?


19 Q. Is that a check that you seized from the Hovinds during the

20 service of the search warrant?

21 A. Yes, ma'am, I did.

22 Q. Where did you find this and all the other checks that you

23 seized?

24 A. This check was, again, found in the file cabinet right near

25 Jo Hovind's desk in the main house.


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1 MS. HELDMYER: The United States would offer1 5 A M

2 Government's Exhibit INC-89A into evidence.




6 THE COURT: It will be admitted.

7 BY MS. HELDMYER:

8 Q. What is this?

9 A. It's a check written on the CSE Enterprises bank account

10 for $7,000. And as you see, that stamp on there indicates it

11 was used to purchase a cashier's check, and the number is

12 listed right there.

13 Q. Did you go to the bank to determine -- to get a copy of the

14 cashier's check, which number appears on this check?

15 A. Yes, ma'am.


17 purposes as Government's Exhibit INC-89B. Do you recognize

18 that?


20 Q. Is that a series of documents that you obtained by subpoena

21 from AmSouth Bank?


23 Q. And does it have the official check with that number on it

24 that we just saw that appears on the face of the check,

25 INC-89A?


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1 A. Yes, ma'am, it does.1 6 A M

2 MS. HELDMYER: The United States would offer INC-89B

3 into evidence.

4 THE COURT: Any objections?



7 THE COURT: 89B will be admitted.

8 BY MS. HELDMYER:

9 Q. The first letter -- I'm sorry. The first document here is

10 a letter from AmSouth dated April 14th of 2006 to Special Agent

11 Chuck Evans with regard to that official check, correct?

12 A. Yes, ma'am.

13 Q. The second page is something that we've seen before, the

14 certificate of origin and authenticity, correct?

15 A. Yes, ma'am.

16 Q. And then we go to the third page, we have that check number

17 here on 89A. Is this a copy of the official check that matches

18 the number that appeared on that $7,000 check to cash that

19 Mrs. Hovind purchased?


21 Q. What does this indicate that Mrs. Hovind did at the bank?

22 A. She used that money from the CSE Enterprises bank account

23 to purchase a cashier's check made payable to her son, Kent

24 Andrew Hovind.

25 Q. Do you know why Mrs. Hovind did not just give her son a


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1 check, that she went and purchased a cashier's check and gave1 7 A M

2 her son a cashier's check?

3 A. I can draw an assumption.

4 Q. Don't do that.

5 A. No. I don't have any other reason to know why.


7 purposes as INC-90A. Is that also a check that you seized from

8 the search warrant at the same place?


10 MS. HELDMYER: The United States would offer INC-90A

11 into evidence.


13 MR. BARRINGER: No objection.

14 MR. RICHEY: No objection.

15 THE COURT: It will be admitted.

16 BY MS. HELDMYER:

17 Q. This was another check. Let's see what the -- we've got

18 March 12th, 2001 on that check. Let's take a quick look at

19 INC-89A. March 12th, 2001, same day?

20 A. Yes, ma'am.

21 Q. What does the check indicate happened here?

22 A. Well, it's a sequential check number, and it also indicates

23 that the check was written to cash, and also used to purchase a

24 cashier's check in the amount of $7,000. And the cashier's

25 check number is sequential as well.


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1 Q. Again, did you go to the bank and ask to get a copy of the1 9 A M

2 cashier's check that this check indicates was purchased by

3 Ms. Hovind on that day?

4 PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes, ma'am.

5 MS. HELDMYER: The United States -- well, let me show

6 it to you, INC-90B.

7 THE COURT: Any objection to 90B?




11 MS. HELDMYER: Thank you, Your Honor.

12 BY MS. HELDMYER:

13 Q. Okay. So we have got the March 12th, 2001, $7,000. Let me

14 flip to the third page of 90B. And it is a little hard to

15 read, but can you tell from this document what Ms. Hovind did

16 with the $7,000 that she wrote at the bank?

17 A. Yes, ma'am, she purchased a cashier's check payable to her

18 daughter-in-law, Kent Andrew's wife, Rebecca Danielle Hovind,

19 for $7,000.

20 Q. Did you see any documentation that indicated that

21 Mr. Hovind was interested in buying other property other than

22 the property that has already been testified to up to this

23 point?

24 A. Yes, ma'am.



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1 We have explored many options, looked at our long-term plans2 1 A M

2 and decided to make you three offers to determine whether we

3 should expand our ministry toward Palafox or not."

4 Q. Do you see something in there that indicates approximately

5 what property or how much property Mr. Hovind appears to be

6 interested in purchasing?

7 A. Well, it indicates quite a few different pieces of property

8 that he's looking at as alternatives. It appears he indicates

9 that -- a seven-acre parcel, and he's trying to compare it to

10 something further on North Palafox with the frontage on Palafox

11 road that's selling for 750,000 an acre.

12 Q. There is a series of offers here?

13 A. Yes, ma'am.

14 Q. Offer 1, offer 2, and the next page is offer No. 3?

15 A. Yes, ma'am.

16 Q. And just read that for me.

17 A. "CSE will be given first option to purchase the remaining

18 property and buildings when they become available. This offer

19 is good until July 31."

20 Q. Did you get any indication that an additional purchase of

21 property was made?

22 A. Yes, ma'am.


24 purposes as Government's Exhibit INC-87. Do you recognize

25 this?


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1 A. Yes, ma'am, I do.2 3 A M

2 Q. It's a series of documents. Did you obtain this during the

3 search warrant?

4 A. Yes, ma'am.

5 Q. Where?

6 A. At the desk of Jo Hovind.

7 MS. HELDMYER: The United States would offer INC-87

8 into evidence.

9 MR. RICHEY: No objection.



12 BY MS. HELDMYER:

13 Q. What is this?

14 A. This appears to be a sales closing statement between Kent

15 Hovind and Dolores Choron, Choron.

16 Q. For property where?

17 A. At 5740 North Palafox.

18 Q. Sales price?

19 A. $155,000.

20 Q. Total due?

21 A. It's $156,560.50.

22 Q. Do you know where this property is located in relation to

23 CSE?

24 A. I believe it 's part of the property that makes up the

25 parking lot area to the back of their personal residence that


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1 comes into another access to Dinosaur Adventure Land.2 4 A M

2 Q. The back document in this series of documents appears to

3 have the tag -- the Escambia County sticker on there. What

4 does that indicate?

5 A. That it was actually filed with the county to record the

6 transaction.

7 Q. Okay. Let me show you what's been marked for

8 identification purposes as Government's Exhibit INC-172. Do

9 you recognize that?

10 A. Yes, ma'am.

11 Q. Did you seize it?


13 Q. From where?

14 A. This, again, was another item off of Kent Hovind's laptop

15 computer.

16 Q. And while I 'm at it, let me show you INC-173. Same

17 question.

18 A. Yes, ma'am, in the same place.

19 Q. And 175, INC-175, do you recognize that?


21 Q. Where did you get that?

22 A. From the same place, from Kent Hovind's laptop computer.


24 Government's Exhibits INC-172, 173 and 175 into evidence.



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1 MR. BARRINGER: No, Your Honor.2 5 A M


3 THE COURT: Those exhibits will be admitted.

4 BY MS. HELDMYER:

5 Q. Looking on the screen now at INC-175, can you just tell us

6 quickly what we're looking at?

7 A. Yes, ma'am. It's a lease contract for property at

8 12 Oleander Drive that CSE is entering into to basically clear

9 the title of the property and they want to make repairs. It

10 looks like a lease/purchase agreement, basically that they

11 lease it and they have the option to buy the property for the

12 amount located down at the bottom, $31,000.

13 Q. This is the property at 12 Oleander Drive?

14 A. Yes, ma'am. And that road backs -- Cummings comes in and

15 then turns and heads -- it heads north and then makes a sharp

16 90-degree turn heading to the east. This property, the road

17 Oleander runs east/west, just to the north. So basically the

18 road that they are on and the 29 Cummings address is on, if you

19 go to the north of that property, it comes out on Oleander. So

20 this one of the streets that sort of borders where they have

21 their residence and Dinosaur Adventure Land.

22 Q. We're looking at INC-173 now. Go ahead and tell us what

23 this is.

24 A. Again, this appears to be another offer for additional

25 property, which is -- which was -- from my research I know the


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1 McDaniels owns property in that same -- I can't recall if it2 7 A M

2 was Cummings Road or Oleander, but they were making an offer

3 for the property over there as well.

4 Q. Would you read this paragraph for me, please.

5 A. Yes. "We could pay cash since there are no filing

6 requirements with the IRS. We could also give a tax receipt

7 for the difference in selling price and her asking price since

8 we would be getting the property for our church ministry."

9 Q. We're now looking at INC-172. You said you found that on

10 Mr. Hovind's laptop?

11 A. Yes, ma'am.

12 Q. What property is being discussed here?

13 A. I don't know the exact address that would be, but obviously

14 it indicates that it is -- they want to purchase some of the

15 backyard of this property. I can't tell you for sure exactly

16 what parcel right around their house this would be for.

17 Q. And the offer is -- this first sentence, please?

18 A. "We would like to offer to buy your entire property for

19 $70,000 cash or purchase some of your backyard."


21 purposes as Government's Exhibit INC-160C. Do you recognize

22 that?

23 A. Yes, ma'am.

24 Q. Did you seize this in the search warrant?



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1 being director of the Firm Foundation, a3 0 A M

2 Washington-acknowledged corporation sole of the church.

3 Q. And then there is a settlement and disbursement date.

4 Would you read that?

5 A. Yes. November 19, 2003.

6 Q. Did you find evidence when you served the search warrant

7 that individuals would make contributions, make donations to

8 Creation Science Evangelism?

9 A. Yes, ma'am.

10 Q. Did it appear to you that the business kept records of the

11 donations that were made to them?

12 A. Yes, ma'am.

13 Q. And did you see any indication as to whether receipts were

14 given pursuant to those donations?

15 A. Yes, ma'am.


17 purposes as Government's Exhibit INC-178A. That's page 1, and

18 that's page 2. Do you recognize that?


20 Q. Is that something that you seized in the search warrant?


22 Q. Where did you find it?

23 A. We found this in the bookstore office, the executive

24 offices, in the desk of Martha Harris.

25 MS. HELDMYER: The United States offers INC-178A into


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1 purposes as Government's Exhibit INC-179. Do you recognize3 3 A M

2 that?


4 Q. Did you seize it in the warrant?

5 A. Yes, ma'am.

6 Q. Was it stapled together?

7 A. Yes, ma'am.


9 A. I don't have the exact location written here. I believe

10 that this was found in the bookstore file drawer where most of

11 the Dinosaur Adventure Land business receipts were found.

12 MS. HELDMYER: We'd offer INC-179 into evidence.


14 THE COURT: All right. It will be admitted.

15 BY MS. HELDMYER:

16 Q. What is this?

17 A. It's a bill showing where Dinosaur Adventure Land was

18 advertising in the Gulf Coast Parent Newspaper.

19 Q. This is a copy of the newspaper?

20 A. Yes, ma'am. A copy of the ad that would run.

21 Q. Where is the ad?

22 A. Right there.

23 Q. And what is this?

24 A. This is an ad for Dinosaur Adventure Land showing that

25 there is a family special. That four passes to Dinosaur


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1 Adventure Land are only $20 with the coupon. That they're3 4 A M

2 regularly $7 each.

3 Q. Does it indicate anywhere on this coupon that this is a

4 suggested donation to Dinosaur Adventure Land?

5 A. No, ma'am.

6 Q. All right. Special Agent Schneider, did you see any

7 evidence that Mr. Hovind had received any tax documents like

8 1099s from individuals, other than Pastor Jack Fox who

9 testified, with regard to speaking engagements that he made

10 during the course of his ministry?

11 A. Yes, ma'am.


13 purposes as Government's Exhibit INC-180A. This is a series --

14 I'm sorry. There is 180A and 180B in this exhibit. Do you

15 recognize it?

16 A. Yes, ma'am.

17 Q. Is it something that you seized?



20 A. This was found in the bookstore office in the desk of

21 Martha Harris, Kent Hovind's secretary.

22 MS. HELDMYER: The United States would offer INC-180A

23 and B into evidence.




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1 THE COURT: 180A and B will be admitted.3 6 A M

2 BY MS. HELDMYER:

3 Q. What's the letterhead here, sir?

4 A. First Baptist Church of Satsuma.

5 Q. Now, this is a document that is signed by a June Criswell,

6 financial secretary. And we can see down at the bottom here

7 where Satsuma is. Where is it?

8 A. It's in Alabama.

9 Q. This is actually a letter to whom?

10 A. To the Internal Revenue Service.

11 Q. Dated what?

12 A. January 21, 2002.

13 Q. Regarding what?

14 A. Regarding the fact that --

15 Q. Just read that for me.

16 A. Okay. Yes. "Refused TIN on submitted 1009 --" it looks

17 like a typo -- "miscellaneous form for 2001."

18 Q. Would you read that part for me.

19 A. "We are enclosing herewith our annual report of 1099

20 miscellaneous forms on behalf of the First Baptist Church of

21 Satsuma."

22 Q. You don't have to read the tax ID number.

23 A. "They are all in order with one exception, which is

24 discussed below."

25 Q. Okay. Read that second paragraph.


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1 A. "Dr. Kent Hovind, d/b/a Creation Science Evangelism, had3 7 A M

2 refused to provide the church with a tax identification number

3 for holding a one-day seminar in our church on August 5, 2001.

4 He was given a love offering honorarium of $738.30 for the

5 seminar, along with a W-9 form to complete and return to us.

6 "We have made several attempts by mail and by phone to

7 obtain the information, but to date he has not complied. We

8 are attaching hereto several documents that will provide

9 information on correspondence exchanges with Dr. Hovind."

10 Q. Okay. And read that for me, please.

11 A. "We hope we have handled the situation properly and have

12 provided you with sufficient information regarding it. We also

13 request that you not hold the church liable for the situation.

14 We normally require a completed W-9 form prior to or at the

15 time they are paid out for services such as this. However, on

16 that particular weekend, there was a hurricane in the Gulf, and

17 Pensacola was its target. The weather was extremely bad by the

18 end of the day, and he was here and he was anxious to get home

19 to see about his home and family.

20 "We did not press the matter and thought he would return it

21 in proper order, but he did not. We do not like to be placed

22 in the position of being in the middle between an

23 individual/business and the IRS."

24 Q. Okay. This indicates a copy of the letter was sent to

25 Dr. Hovind. Is that the copy that we're looking at here?


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1 A. Yes, ma'am, it appears so.3 8 A M

2 Q. The orange marker, did you make that?

3 A. No, ma'am.

4 Q. Was that on it when you seized the letter?

5 A. Yes, ma'am, it was.

6 Q. The second page appears to be what?

7 A. It appears to be a copy of the form 1099 that was submitted

8 by the First Baptist Church of Satsuma with the recipient's

9 name of Kent Hovind.

10 Q. And INC-180B appears to be?

11 A. Yeah, that appears to be the individual's original copy.

12 Q. Another copy of the same. Is this the condition -- there

13 is an envelope in the back here. Is this -- marked 2001. Is

14 that the condition of this package as you found it?

15 A. Yes, ma'am.


17 purposes as Government's Exhibits INC-181, 182 and 183. 181,

18 182 and 183, do you recognize them?


20 Q. Did you seize them from Mr. Hovind?

21 A. Yes, ma'am.

22 Q. Where were they?

23 A. These were also found in the secretary's desk, Martha

24 Harris.

25 MS. HELDMYER: We would offer INC-181, 182 and 183


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1 into evidence.4 0 A M




5 THE COURT: They will be admitted.

6 BY MS. HELDMYER:

7 Q. What are these?

8 A. These are 1099 miscellaneous forms sent to -- with the name

9 Dr. Kent Hovind on it.

10 Q. This one is from?

11 A. First Baptist Church of Orlando.

12 Q. For how much?

13 A. For $1500.

14 Q. 182 is?

15 A. Is another form to Kent Hovind from Evangel Assembly of

16 God.

17 Q. For how much?

18 A. For $2,000.

19 Q. INC-183?

20 A. Is from the First Baptist Church Daytona Beach for $1500.

21 Q. And let me show you what's been marked for identification

22 purposes as Government's Exhibit INC-184. Do you recognize

23 that?


25 Q. What is that?


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1 A. It's a document found in the Cooksey cubical in the office4 1 A M

2 in the main house.

3 MS. HELDMYER: The United States would offer INC-184

4 into evidence.





9 BY MS. HELDMYER:

10 Q. Looking at the first page now, Special Agent Schneider,

11 this is FYI, customer service. It says last update 3/9/04, and

12 it has a traveling schedule.

13 A. Yes, ma'am.

14 Q. What, generally speaking, is this?

15 A. It appeared to me to be information to the staff to let

16 them know what was going on and any -- sort of like a little

17 news bulletin.

18 Q. There are some references here to this week and next week.

19 Would that be his traveling schedule?

20 A. Yes, ma'am. That's what it appears to be.

21 Q. Okay. We've got Dr. Hovind's request and then two things,

22 two things -- individuals to refer to. Who is Jonathan and

23 Eric?

24 A. I believe Eric to be his son, Eric Hovind. And Jonathan, I

25 believe, would most likely be Jonathan Sampson, I believe is


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1 in writing, by the way?4 4 A M

2 A. No, ma'am.

3 Q. That was already on there when you seized it?

4 A. Yes, ma'am.

5 Q. We have a VBS information packet. Do you know what VBS

6 stands for?

7 A. I believe it's vacation Bible school.

8 Q. And the packet is how much money?

9 A. $129.

10 Q. Dr. Hovind answers his critic series, VHS or DVD. How much

11 is that?

12 A. $45.

13 Q. Okay. Read that for me, please.

14 A. "The eight hours, four videos and plastic binder like

usa v kent hovind trial transcripts (5 of 8)

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