two travellers edited transcript

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Two Travellers Edited transcript.

© Copyright 2009. Robin Manuell http:hypnoticstorytelling.co! "age # o$ 92

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A Master Class in Hypnotic

Storytelling.

Part 1

Two Travellers.Edited transcript.

Robin Manuell and %gor &edochows'i.

Edited by Caleb (illia!s and Margaret Manuell

These interviews were originally recorded for Igor Ledochowski's “Masters

of Hypnosis” Series. o! "ay not copy or distri#!te. If yo! wish to share

the series yo! can sign !p for o!r affiliate progra" and earn co""issions on

every sale.

$ %o#in Man!ell ideasin"otion.org.!k &ll %ights %eserved

© Copyright 2009. Robin Manuell http:hypnoticstorytelling.co! "age 2 o$ 92


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Biographies

Robin Manuell has #een a storyteller since his teenage years.

ith a #ackgro!nd in theatre and psychology he started practising

(L) and Hypnosis in *++,. His advent!res have taken hi" all

aro!nd the world in search of teachers and inspiration for stories

that change "inds.

%gor &edochows'i is a Master Hypnosis and (L) Trainer and the

#est selling a!thor of “The )ower of -onversational Hypnosis”

and “The eep Trance Training Man!al” In ten years he has

single handedly transfor"ed the teaching of hypnosis on line and

in the process he has trained with and interviewed "ost of the

greatest "inds in the field.

© Copyright 2009. Robin Manuell http:hypnoticstorytelling.co! "age ) o$ 92






& Master -lass in Hypnotic Storytelling

Listen to the whole series.

The )ower of -onversational Hypnosis.

iscover the Science of )ers!asion

© Copyright 2009. Robin Manuell http:hypnoticstorytelling.co! "age * o$ 92

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A Master Class in Hypnotic Storytelling

Contents/iographies.

*. & Life in Storytelling.

a0 S!""ary

#0 Edited Transcript

c0 Stacked %ealities

1. Two Travellers.

a0 Edited Transcript

2. Storytelling in )erfor"ance.

a0 S!""ary

#0 Edited Transcript

3. 4irst Steps in Storytelling.

a0 Edited Transcript.

#0 S!""ary

© Copyright 2009. Robin Manuell http:hypnoticstorytelling.co! "age + o$ 92






Edited Transcript

Igor5

elco"e to Streethypnosis.co". I'" here with Master Hypnotist

%o#in Man!ell fro" Hypnoticstorytelling.co". %o#in is not 6!st

a "asterf!l storyteller and one of the #est hypnotists I've had the

pleas!re of working with. He has a !ni7!e progra" that's for

hypnotists8 teaching the" how to tell stories that really infl!ence

and pers!ade and "ove and change people. It's a really powerf!l

progra" and we're very fort!nate today #eca!se %o#in is going

to #e showing !s and teaching !s the core essence of what his

progra" is a#o!t so stay t!ned #eca!se yo!'re a#o!t to go on an

e9citing storytelling ride. %o#in welco"e a#oard.

%o#in5

Thank yo! its good to #e #ack on #oard.

Igor5

&nd its great to have yo!. &s I say I always love talking to yo!

cos the st!ff .. first of all yo! never know where yo!'re going to

go and second of all we know where ever it is its going to #e a

real pleas!re so I think we're in for a real treat today.

%o#in5

:!ys if yo!'ve ever had the pleas!re to "eet Igor in person yo!'ll

know one of the things he is e9cellent at is #eing a#le to stand

there and give yo! 6!st oceans and oceans of appreciation. He'll

© Copyright 2009. Robin Manuell http:hypnoticstorytelling.co! "age , o$ 92










#e right on the "ark as well its a great talent to have .. so thanks

for pointing that in "y direction so "!ch.

Igor5

&nd thank yo! for pointing that o!t. This is now the "!t!al

appreciation society co"ing to a close.

So let's start with the act!al progra". I know yo! have a really

powerf!l storytelling progra" for hypnotists where yo! coach

the" either one on one or in gro!ps to show the" 6!st how good

they are at stories.

I tho!ght if yo! co!ld 6!st la!nch !s in with a general

#ackgro!nd into the idea of the power of stories. Is everyone

capa#le or do yo! have to #e #orn to #e a storyteller; I "ean

what's yo!r opinion a#o!t how people co"e to #e storytellers

the"selves;

I think the first place that yo! have to learn to start with this is to

learn to listen8 to really love and get fascinated with stories. It's

worth reflecting for a "o"ent on 6!st how powerf!l stories are.

Like we "entioned in the first interview. e were talking a#o!t

<es!s of (a=areth8 :!ata"a /!ddha 8 the prophet Moha""ed.

o! only have to reflect on their stories to realise how powerf!lly

they can change the world.

© Copyright 2009. Robin Manuell http:hypnoticstorytelling.co! "age - o$ 92






It doesn't act!ally "atter whether we know those stories are tr!e

or not. They still have the powerf!l effect that they've had. I've

always tho!ght that it's fascinating that so "!ch anger and strifeare ca!sed in the world over a few s7!are "eters of land in the

centre of <er!sale". & city whose na"e #y the way "eans

peace...

(ow this piece of knowledge is vital to appreciate ...

To #eco"e a storyteller the first and "ost i"portant thing yo!

have to #egin8 is to #eco"e a lover of stories. id I ever tell yo!

a#o!t >le Larson;

Igor5

(o not yet.

%o#in5

He was fro" en"ark originally and he st!died with -hogya"

Tr!ngpa the Ti#etan /!ddhist8 in the States. He st!died with

Erhart Se"inar Training and worked there for a while and this

g!y was like a rock. I swear when yo! shook hands with hi" yo!

co!ld 6!st feel this real solidity this real presence. hen he was

angry8 yo! know he'd stand !p in front of an a!dience.

I saw hi" get really angry at this g!y once and it was as tho!gh

yo! co!ld feel this wave of anger 6!st r!shing over the crowd and

© Copyright 2009. Robin Manuell http:hypnoticstorytelling.co! "age o$ 92






as soon as it had "oved8 it was gone and over again8 and he

co!ld do the sa"e with love.

He had so"ething a#o!t hi" that 6!st radiated presence and >le

Larson's idea a#o!t life. He wo!ld never worry a#o!t c!sto"er

service or getting on with people #eca!se if he went to a

resta!rant he wo!ld #e the #est c!sto"er they have ever had. &nd

the sa"e way8 if yo! want to #eco"e a great storyteller I think

the first thing that yo! have to do is to start to #eco"e the #esta!dience ever.

hen yo! #egin to really listen and to pay attention to the people

in yo!r life yo!'ll realise I think that everyone is e9tra?ordinary.

Everyone has a story to tell. It's 6!st part of #eing h!"an.

So"e stories8 so"e of those stories resonate with !s #eca!se they

are fa"iliar8 #eca!se they descri#e the ordinariness of o!r lives in

a special way or #eca!se they capt!re the essence o!r own

str!ggle. There are other stories that delight !s #eca!se they

#reathe of "ystery and "agic.

I so"eti"es tell "y st!dents a story a#o!t two travellers who

happen to "eet on the sa"e track.

This happened8 well let's say it happened8 yo! know two or three

h!ndred years ago8 #efore ind!strialisation. So"ewhere in central

E!rope. I like it there #eca!se there are vast tracts of "o!ntain







and forest. It's a wild place even now and #ack then it was a place

of principalities and s"all kingdo"s protected #y those nat!ral

#arriers.

These two travellers "eet on the road8 they're heading in the

sa"e general direction so they decide to travel together for a

while and as they walk they talk and their voices r!n along the

road ahead of the"8 rising and falling in la!ghter and in

arg!"ent.

>ne of these g!ys is a Merchant. He #!ys goods and he sells

the"8 he knows what people need and he knows the val!e of

things.

The other g!y is a h!nter. He knows the tracks of the deer8 and

the her#s that are good for the #ody and the so!l.

They realise that they have "!ch to learn fro" each other

#eca!se what they #oth have in co""on is that they are

storytellers and collectors of stories.

So they set off and that's all they do. They walk along together

telling each other stories and asking 7!estions like5 “How high

are the stars in the sky;” or “How did the world co"e into #eing

and when will it end;”8 “hat is the nat!re of love and of the

so!l;”8 “hat's the tr!e path to happiness for "an and wo"an

kind;”

© Copyright 2009. Robin Manuell http:hypnoticstorytelling.co! "age #0 o$ 92






e all "eet people on o!r own personal 6o!rney of who" we

think8 “&h8 fellow traveller@” & few years ago I was at a <ohn

:rinder se"inar and there was this g!y8 he was asking good7!estions and "aking co""ents. I saw hi" across the roo" and

I think pro#a#ly for a "o"ent I tho!ght8 he's the only g!y awake

in the roo". He ca"e !p to "e a #it later in the training and

introd!ced hi"self he said8 “Hi8 "y na"e's Igor.”

hen yo! listened to "e in the earlier interview that we did Iwas talking a#o!t Sharon who I !sed to work in the office with

and how we'd cover for each other while I prod!ced "y

Shakespeare play and she rang !p record prod!cers and there's

an i"portant story a#o!t Sharon that I neglected to tell yo!8 #y

the way8 and it was one of those kind of "eetings.

These two travellers8 #eca!se they shared this co""on

fascination with stories and with other people8 they loved to

pass the ti"e as they walked in conversation sharing their

advent!res and event!ally they co"e to a town that's on the shore

of a great lake and at the centre of the lake A a long8 long way

away ... they can 6!st see it in the distance A is an islandB and on

that island there's a castle8 and the castle see"s to rise !p o!t of

the island and go !p8 !p8 even into the clo!ds ? right to the s!n

itself.

They find an Inn in the town and they sit down in the foreco!rt

of this inn and they look o!t across the lake and they see the

© Copyright 2009. Robin Manuell http:hypnoticstorytelling.co! "age ## o$ 92






castle on the island there in the distance. They 6!st sit and they

#egin to listen to the conversations and the e9changes that are

happening aro!nd the" #eca!se they #oth know that yo! knowthe #est way to #egin to get in to!ch with the vi#rancy and the

power of stories is 6!st act!ally to go into a p!#lic place and

listen. Soon eno!gh yo!'ll #egin to hear little ge"s little drops of

wisdo" and yo!'ll see e9changes #etween people that give yo!

an insight into a #roader pict!re8 so"ething else that's going on.

I don't know8 have yo! ever played that ga"e Igor; here

yo!'re o!t with friends or 6!st a friend .. yo! look at people in the

roo" and yo! do "ake #elieve psychic;

Igor5

>h god8 yeah@ that's a great ga"e I think it's a very powerf!lga"e to get yo! to read people. o! 6!st "ake !p and say8 this is

this person's life and this is what they are doing. So"eti"es yo!

have f!n and go ridic!lo!s #!t other ti"es yo! try and see how

they're #ehaving and doing st!ff8 6!st what kind of person they

wo!ld pro#a#ly #e like.

%o#in5

eah that's right and it's a wonderf!l ga"e to play when yo!

know that yo! don't have to get it right. o!'re not act!ally going

to find o!t or check ... So"eti"es yo! can. It can #e the

interesting ga"#it to a whole other story8 yo! know; -os yo! can

act!ally go over and talk to the".







The f!n of the ga"e is act!ally that yo!r i"agination gets cra=y

and yo! can co"e !p with all kinds of things. Have yo! got

e9a"ples of where yo!'ve !sed that story o!t and a#o!t;

Igor5

S!re I "ean the #iggest f!n is !s!ally when ? I travel a lot so yo!

can sit in airports and #!ses and it gets kind of d!ll. &fter a while

yo! don't want to read #ooks any "ore or listen to st!ff. o! 6!st

want to have a connection with people again. I find this is a lotof f!n #eca!se yo!'re 6!st playing the ga"e and yo! see

so"eone. Especially if yo! see so"e #i=arre characters in So!th

&"erica. )art of yo! 6!st wants to "ake !p a story a#o!t the"8

partly 6!st to a"!se yo!rself and the other part is 6!st to get a

connection to people again.

I re"e"#er one point act!ally start a conversation with people

6!st #eca!se yo! get so carried away #y the story. It's like8 I want

to tell so"eone 6!st #eca!se I like this story so yo! end !p

t!rning to the person ne9t to yo! at the #ar or where ever it is and

saying8 “Hey8 see that g!y over there I #et he's so and so8 ” o!'d

#e s!rprised how 7!ickly "ost people pick !p on the ga"e and

start adding their own #its to it as well so it starts snow#alling. It

goes into its own thing and that's a lot of f!n.

%o#in5

eah I re"e"#er I told yo! a story the other day a#o!t the

wo"an who lost her grand"a.

© Copyright 2009. Robin Manuell http:hypnoticstorytelling.co! "age #) o$ 92






Cla!ghter0

I'" not going to tell it yo! now #!t that's the kind of story yo!

6!st want to tell it to people to see their reaction.

Igor5

o! 6!st can't help it8 can yo!;

%o#in5

So these g!ys are sitting there in the Inn8 in the foreco!rt of the

Inn8 #y the side of the lake8 looking o!t over the lake towards the

castle on the island in the distance8 where they can see it

reaching thro!gh the clo!ds to the s!n itself.

They ask the landlord as he co"es over and hands the" drinks 8

“hat is that place;”

The p!#lican says8 “ell8 the castle is the ho"e of the great

king. It's a place of great riches and great learning and it's said

that once yo!'ve stood in the gardens of the castle and once

yo!'ve walked aro!nd its li#raries then yo!'ll have no reason ever

to leave.

)eople co"e fro" all over the world #!t few are ever allowed

in.”

© Copyright 2009. Robin Manuell http:hypnoticstorytelling.co! "age #* o$ 92






ell8 the Merchant loves this. ow@ (ow this is s!rely the place

we have #een looking for. I"agine all of that knowledge8 all of

that wisdo" collected in one place. <!st think of the #ooks there"!st #e there. <!st think of the stories@ He thinks well8 yo!

know of anyone8 of anyone in the world why sho!ldn't we

deserve ad"ittance to that place; e can contin!e o!r worthy

disp!tations and disco!rses with the greatest "inds in the world.

The H!nter8 he looks o!t over the lake and he says8 “It wo!ld do"y heart glad to rest in s!ch a place if tr!th #e told8 even 6!st to

know that s!ch a place e9isted.”

The p!#lican t!rns to hi" again and he says. “o! know the only

way to the castle anyway is on the other side of the lake. There's

a town there and a har#o!r and there is one ferry8 6!st one ferrythat carries people across to the island.

>!r two travellers8 as they sit there and fill the"selves !p with

good food8 as they go to sleep8 they know that they have already

decided what their !lti"ate destination is and they resolve the

ne9t day to contin!e on to the town on the far side of the lake sothey can catch the ferry to the island and gain ad"ittance to the

castle.

So they follow the path the ne9t "orning down to the lake and

here they stand #y the lake and the Merchant says8 “Look to the

right8 the road is clear8 the land is c!ltivated and there are towns

© Copyright 2009. Robin Manuell http:hypnoticstorytelling.co! "age #+ o$ 92






and villages where I "ay rest8 and where I "ay do #!siness along

the way. This is a road worn s"ooth #y the feet of travellers and

we "ay #enefit fro" their la#o!r and their wisdo" on o!r 6o!rney.”

The H!nter looks to the left. “ell8 the trail this way is not so

clear. So"eti"es it see"s there is no path at all. /!t look at the

forests that line the shore@ Look to the hills and the caves. oes

yo!r heart not yearn to e9plore those hidden places; To #e thefirst eyes to ga=e on these sites; hat "ight we discover on o!r

6o!rney;”

“ell the wilds that so attract yo! frighten "e8 and the co"forts

that I crave #ore yo!. I think that we "!st choose different

paths.”

So the H!nter decided to take the left hand path and the

Merchant takes the right. /!t #efore they part they say to each

other8 “Let !s re"e"#er. If we contin!e in the sa"e direction

then it's inevita#le o!r paths will cross again. (o "atter how long

the 6o!rney takes we will see each other on the other side of thelake.” &nd there they "ake a pro"ise8 they shake hands8 and

they go on their way.

)hew... I think Igor8 stories are powerf!l for two f!nda"ental

reasons. hether they are the kind of stories that we relate to

#eca!se they resonate with !s personally8 or they capt!re so"e

© Copyright 2009. Robin Manuell http:hypnoticstorytelling.co! "age #, o$ 92






essence of o!r own str!ggle or the ordinariness of o!r own lives8

or whether they do so #eca!se they evoke so"e kind of "agic or

"ystery.

The thing is that stories are the f!nda"ental way in which we

organise o!r "e"ories and the internal narrative that we call “I”8

that we call the self. If yo!'re going to e9press to "e a series of

events that happened in the past or anything that's going to

happen in the f!t!re then yo!'re going to have to tell "e a story.

It re"inds "e of when I was at this trainers training and we were

split !p into gro!ps with the task of co"ing !p with 6!st five

stories that we co!ld weave together and the g!y I was working

with t!rned to "e and he said “:od yo! know what it's like when

so"eone asks yo! to "ake so"ething !p and then yo! 6!st get sost!ck and yo! can't think of anything;”

&nd I t!rned to hi" and I said8 “:reat that's fantastic8 and what's

yo!r second story;

Cla!ghter0

#eca!se of co!rse he realised he had one right there.

In fact it's when things don't go right that stories really get

interesting. Think a#o!t it. :irl "eets #oy. They like each other

and then they get "arried.

© Copyright 2009. Robin Manuell http:hypnoticstorytelling.co! "age #- o$ 92






&ct!ally yo! co!ld do that story really well and very si"ply. I

like to watch a lot of fil"s #eca!se so"e of the #est storytellers

o!t there right now are definitely fil"?"akers. :o to yo!r localvideo shop start renting stories. E9plore the genres that yo!

wo!ldn't !s!ally. :et so"e foreign "ovies o!t or take so"e

"ovies fro" the children's section. :o and start reading

children's stories and children's #ooks8 #eca!se the stories that

yo!'ll find in those are very si"ple and very direct. They also

e9plore the real"s of "agic and what's possi#le and

i"possi#le ... cats and dogs talking and things like that8 #eings

appearing o!t of nowhere. Monsters and gho!ls.

That story8 girl "eets #oy8 they like each other and then they get

"arried. There is a fil" act!ally called “My /ig 4at :reek

edding.”

(ow I don't know if it's every#ody kind of "ovie. It's a very

si"ple ro"antic co"edy and what I love a#o!t that "ovie is

act!ally nothing "!ch happens in it. Slightly fr!"py wo"an

dolls herself !p and goes to night school. Handso"e lect!rer

appreciates her for what she is. They hang o!t. Her dad gets a #it

!pset #eca!se he's not :reek . They get "arried.

(ow if yo! look at "ost stories and partic!larly the stories that

yo!'ll find in the #lock #!ster ranks of the Hollywood hits. This

is not what happens8 is it;







It's "!ch "ore likely that girl "eets #oy8 girl and #oy hate each

other or arg!e over so"ething. :irl and #oy keep "issing each

other for *D years cos they're in the wrong ti"e in their life. :irland #oy fall in love #!t then they can't get together8 it's fr!strated

!ntil it all co"es together in the end in a great #ig happy #!ndle.

o! #egin to see when yo! look into stories that there are

act!ally so"e really si"ple narratives going on there. :irl "eets

#oy8 s!re there are an infinite variety of versions of that story #!tat the sa"e ti"e there are so"e pretty si"ple and inevita#le

tr!ths within that.

Igor5

>ne of the things yo!'re doing very elegantly8 I think8 and this is

very i"portant8 is the idea8 first of all. e recognise stories. eknow what are good stories and what are #ad stories which

"eans inside of !s we have to have so"e kind of story "aking

"achine that recognises what is a good story and what is a #ad

story. If we didn't ... like8 if a narrative violates whatever r!les are

in o!r "achine8 then we think that's a #ad storyB which "eans if

we have that "achine8 then its 6!st a 7!estion of refining it.

It goes #ack to what yo! said at the #eginning. If yo! 6!st listen

and start appreciating stories8 yo!r "achine gets so strong that at

so"e point it 6!st wants to #e a#le to do its own thing. o!'ll #e

a#le to tell stories or create the" #eca!se it's filtering thro!gh the

sa"e #asic network.







& key str!ct!re that yo!'re p!lling o!t that I like to e"phasis

often8 is the idea that a story is not 6!st a series of events. It's

what happens when a series of events is interr!pted and peopleare changed as a res!lt of it. That's what the story is.

%o#in5

&#sol!tely. I think that's so"ething fro" eith <ohnson8 isn't it;

Igor5

E9actly. I think it's one of the si"plest and "ost powerf!l tr!ths

in ter"s of storytelling. o! know8 yo! don't 6!st tell a se7!ence

of events of what happened. It's when those events so"ehow get

sidelined and so"ething else starts happening. That's when the

interest perks !p and that's when the !nconscio!s "ind goes8

“>h8 there's a story that's #eginning to happen.

Then all the things8 whether it's conflict or fr!stration or fear8 or

challenging yo!rself8 whatever those things are that derail the

nor"al story8 so to speak8 those are the #its that end !p changing

so"eone for the #etter or for the worse and that's how we know

that8 first of all8 the story has startedB and we also know how thestory has ended8 #eca!se that's when we know the person has

#een changed. There's a co"ing ro!nd of the circle. The circles

are co"plete.

So we have all the #asic fra"eworks. Tell a little five year old kid

a story that isn't a story and they'll tell yo!8 “(o@ o!'re doing it







all wrong8 this has got to happen and this.” They'll correct the

story for yo!. So perhaps we sho!ld think "ore si"ply and I like

yo!r idea of reading children's stories #eca!se when yo! startthinking "ore si"ply8 well then yo! leave roo" to let yo!r

!nconscio!s show yo! the way in ter"s of what act!ally works.

%o#in5

E9actly and what this whole reason that we're talking a#o!t here8

the first reason that stories are so powerf!l is #eca!se there is a #asic str!ct!re in o!r "inds that does this anyway. e can't help

it. hen we create8 when we recall a scene8 we confa#!late8 we

create the "e"ory again fro" snatches of i"ages and so!nds and

we p!t those together.

(ow I think the second reason that stories are so powerf!l is #eca!se they have #een thro!gho!t h!"an history the "ost

f!nda"ental way in which c!lt!re8 history8 the r!les and nor"s

of #ehavio!r within a partic!lar c!lt!re are trans"itted fro" one

generation to the other.

There are a n!"#er of shifts that have occ!rred in h!"an historythat have changed the way c!lt!re is trans"itted as well. The

invention of writing was a "a6or one.

/efore literacy all stories were trans"itted orally thro!gh story

telling and rit!al. So"eti"es thro!gh artefacts8 or sy"#olic

locations that served as "e"ory aids. o! "ight think of so"e

© Copyright 2009. Robin Manuell http:hypnoticstorytelling.co! "age 2# o$ 92






of the cra=y ideas they have a#o!t the neolithic !se of the

landscape to sy"#olise the 6o!rney thro!gh death and #eyond.

(ow #eca!se those stories were passed down fro" generation to

generation8 the interpretation of these stories and the e9pression

of the" changes. It changes as the environ"ent changes. There is

an in#!ilt "echanis" that links grandparent to grandchildB and

it's theorised that in preliterate c!lt!res living so?called

“traditional” ways of life ? let's say hortic!lt!ral or s!#sistencelifestyles. Storytelling is an i"portant feed#ack loop that ens!res

that over generations the stories re"ain acc!rate e9pressions of

deeper c!lt!ral tr!ths while adapting to changing conditions.

It's an interesting contradiction8 an interesting interplay. If we go

#ack to the H!nter in o!r story .. the H!nter in o!r story isoriginally fro" &r"enia and he's the son of a traditional

&r"enian storyteller called an &shok.

I don't know if yo!'ve heard of :!rd6ieff. I know Igor yo! have.

:!rd6ieff was a spirit!al teacher fro" &r"enia. He lived in

%!ssia. ell8 when we first enco!nter hi" he is living as a g!y

called )rince >laf. In %!ssia8 this is the ti"e of %asp!tin and

the revol!tion that co"es. I g!ess :!rd6ieff shoots to fla"e8

fa"e and fla"e@ .. when he is discovered #y >!spensky.

>!spensky is a spirit!al teacher and writer who ... I think he

works 7!ite a lot in England. He's already got 7!ite a #it of fa"e







and he #!"ps into )rince >laf and 7!ickly realises that this g!y

is the gen!ine deal. &t least he's gen!ine eno!gh to fake it as far

as >!spensky is concerned.

He was an incredi#le g!y8 he lived an incredi#le life. He act!ally

escaped with h!ndreds of people. He fled aro!nd %!ssia. Settled

in vario!s places. H!ndreds of people ca"e to hi" and travelled

with hi" and he ta!ght thro!gh theatre. He was always

rehearsing a theatre play8 a co!ple of theatre plays with theseela#orate dances in the". /!t the plays were never perfor"ed8 I

don't #elieve8 ever. (ot #y hi" anyway #eca!se he wo!ld find

so"e reason to interr!pt it8 or events wo!ld interr!pt it.

/y the way8 :!rd6ieff is8 in "y "ind8 one of the "ost

acco"plished storytellers ever8 #!t if yo! act!ally try to read his #ooks yo!'ll find the" i"penetra#le.

“&ll and Everything” or “/eel=e#!#'s Tales to His :randson”8

is a h!ge to"e. It's 6!st long8 long words8 and invented words

one after the otherB that send yo!r head into a state of

go##ledegook. It's the "ost a"a=ing dense connection of nestedloops yo! co!ld i"agine.

It doesn't help that :!rd6ieff was pro#a#ly at the ti"e in a lot of

pain. He'd s!rvived two assasin .. well he'd #een shot twice.

He'd #een in a car accident that wo!ld have killed "ost people.

© Copyright 2009. Robin Manuell http:hypnoticstorytelling.co! "age 2) o$ 92






He was &r"enian. He was writing in &r"enian8 and I think

%!ssian8 and his works were #eing translated into :er"an and

then English8 so hey ... It's not s!rprising they're conf!sing.

/!t everything that yo! ever want to know a#o!t hypnotic

storytelling is contained within his #ooks and there are so"e

ge"s of conf!sion and interr!pt techni7!es hidden in there for

the advanced st!dent.

(ow what :!rd6ieff wrote in the introd!ction to his first #ook8

“/eel=e#!#'s Tales to His :randson” was very interesting

#eca!se he said8 “I'" trying to write this in a way8 with a new

logic that is going to totally transfor" the way that yo! think and

feel a#o!t the world. I want to destroy every single

preconception and yo! have a#o!t how we ca"e to #e where weare right now and wake yo! !p to what is going on.”

&nd he proposed and s!ggested that si"ply reading his "aterial

and listening to his stories wo!ld #egin to do that for yo! . It was

a #old clai" #!t an i"portant and interesting one #eca!se he

realised that each of !s is #orn into a certain kind of hypnoticreality. e think the world is a certain way. It's not A always the

way that we tho!ght.

The "ore yo! learn to step into other people's shoes8 the "ore

yo! start to listen to how they see the world and how they feel

© Copyright 2009. Robin Manuell http:hypnoticstorytelling.co! "age 2* o$ 92






the world yo! know8 then the "ore perspectives yo! are going to

haveB and that can #e very rich.

:!rd6ieff grew !p. His father8 like the h!nter in o!r story. ... his

father was an &shok8 a storyteller. He got #ro!ght !p in a really

f!nny kind of way. He'd #e woken at 3 in the "orning to take

cold showers. He'd have "ice and rats and spiders thrown at

hi" while he slept. He'd #een #!ried alive and p!t thro!gh all

kind of tests8 all kinds of trials8 to harden hi".

In the evening when he sat and played in front of the fire8 his

father and his !ncle8 who was also an &shok8 they wo!ld sit and

they wo!ld talk together and tell each other stories. hat

:!rd6ieff didn't realise8 and what the H!nter didn't realise was

that all the ti"e they were talking to each other8 act!ally while hesat distracted in play8 they'd #e weaving little "agic tales8

teaching hi" things !nconscio!sly that he'd only realise later.

This &r"enian &shok tradition is a fascinating e9a"ple of an

oral c!lt!re in action. They wo!ld hold these great festivals

where storytellers wo!ld co"pete with storytellers. I"agine it.It's a tent. It's f!ll of people. )ro#a#ly there's #een dancing and

drinking and eating of food. There'll #e people sitting aro!nd

with the kids8 keeping the" co"forta#le and war". >n the stage

there will #e these storytellers playing instr!"ents and throwing

"elodies at each other. Like #an6o d!elling I g!ess@ Throwing

#its of "elody #ack and forth and i"provising. They'd co"pete

© Copyright 2009. Robin Manuell http:hypnoticstorytelling.co! "age 2+ o$ 92






to tell stories as well and to gather the #iggest crowds aro!nd

the".

There's s!ch an interesting interplay here #etween i"provisation

and that spontaneo!s play and creativity and str!ct!re. There's

nothing for "e that highlights that "ore than so"ething that

:!rd6ieff writes. He said in the *+2D's he got hold of a

translation of the Epic of :ilga"esh. This epic had #een known

a#o!t and it had #een discovered in vario!s different scripts andvario!s different ta#lets. So there was a translation in the *FFD'sB

then8 I think8 in the *+2Ds8 they fo!nd "ore ta#lets that ena#led

the" to co"plete the pict!re.

:!rd6ieff read so"e of this translation and he recognised one of

the verses that had #een translated fro" the ta#let as so"ethingthat his father had ta!ght hi". His father had learnt it fro" the

oral tradition.

(ow we can't' #e s!re #eca!se of co!rse the &r"enian &shok

tradition co!ld have co"e across this story in a written for". It

co!ld have #een introd!ced fro" so"ewhere else. /!t there isthe possi#ility that a single verse8 verses of this epic had #een

preserved orally for at least 3DDD years. The epic of :ilga"esh

is pro#a#ly first #ro!ght together so"ewhere #etween 1*st and

the 1Gth cent!ry /-. So that's yeah8 3DDD years ago.

© Copyright 2009. Robin Manuell http:hypnoticstorytelling.co! "age 2, o$ 92






There's an interesting interplay here #etween conservation ? the

way in which so"e ele"ents are preserved8 and i"provisation ?

how things change and #eco"e fl!id as they adapt to what'sgoing on.

/y the way8 what happens with the invention of writing is that

s!ddenly that c!lt!ral trans"ission it gets fi9ed and the

generational feed#ack loop gets c!t so"ewhat. )eople start to

"istake literacy as a!thority and the word #eco"es the finalar#iter of anything. It's not #y chance that the &#raha"ic

religions8 <!dais"8 -hristianity8 Isla" are called the people of

the #ook.

&t the sa"e ti"e the #asis of peace and sec!rity in the west is

fo!nded largely on the r!le of law. hat is law if it is not 6!stso"ething written down in a #ook. There are two spellings of

that word #y the way8 think a#o!t it.

I think there has #een another i"portant change with the

invention of the printing press. S!ddenly all the old power elites

str!ct!red aro!nd knowledge trans"ission ? I'" thinking of thech!rch8 I'" thinking of the state. They have #een forced to accept

the de"ocratising power that co"es with the ind!strialisation of

infor"ation. hen yo! can print h!ndreds of #ooks8 when

anyone can print a #ook and now of co!rse anyone can share

their story with anyone in the world. It's as easy as flicking a

© Copyright 2009. Robin Manuell http:hypnoticstorytelling.co! "age 2- o$ 92






light #!l# or at least switching a co"p!ter on and !sing a

"o!se.

The way history is written has #een f!nda"entally changed #!t

the i"portance of powerf!l and co"pelling stories re"ains the

sa"e #eca!se of co!rse yo! want to #e a#le to separate 7!ality.

So we got to this point in the story8 didn't we where the h!nter

has set o!t on one path and the Merchant has set o!t on another.

ears pass5 how "!ch ti"e; e don't know8 #!t years rather

than "onths. e get to the other side of the lake.

)ict!re this8 o!r Merchant is arriving in town at the far side of the

lake8 he rides into town on a great white horse. His saddle#ags

are f!ll of gold and he has a retin!e of followers #ehind hi". He

#ooks into a hostel and8 while his fa"ily and servants set !p

ho"e8 he strides into town8 walking down to the har#o!r to look

o!t over the lake to the castle on the island.

<!st as he reaches the shore8 who sho!ld he see walking towards

hi" #!t his old co"panion the H!nter.

“My friend@” he sho!ts. The H!nter looks !p and they e"#race.

“It's #een s!ch a long ti"e. I never tho!ght to see yo! again so

soon co"e sit with "e. Let !s share a pot of tea and so"e nice

cakes and we "ay talk of o!r advent!res.”







So they sit down in the co!rt yard of an Inn8 in the foreco!rt

there8 and they look at the castle and the island8 "!ch closer

now. So "!ch closer. The Merchant t!rns to the H!nter and hesays8 “ell here we are now@ Tell "e yo!r story ...”

and the H!nter #egins.

“I travelled for only a few days when the path ca"e to an end

and I had to c!t thro!gh the thickest part of the forest. I

followed ani"al tracks. So"eti"es I c!t #ack to the lake shore

to "ake "y way aro!nd the "angrove swa"ps when the forest

proved too thick. Even in the "iddle of the deepest forest I ca"e

across these h!ge stones8 these carved fig!res of civilisations

flo!rished and decayed. 4or weeks I didn't see a single living

so!l. The ga"e was good and the ani"als and plants that grewthere asto!nded "e with their diversity and their #ea!ty.

“I ca"e to a land that had #een c!ltivated and there was

inha#ited #y a rich and peacef!l people who welco"ed "e. They

gave "e a ho!se in which to live. I stayed with the" for a year

learning their lang!age and their c!sto"s. &t the end of the yearthey offered "e a #ride to seal "y co""it"ent to the peopleB #!t

I co!ld not stay. Tr!th is8 I re"e"#ered o!r pro"ise. I

re"e"#ered that only a year and half #efore we had agreed to

"eet and so I said good#ye to that place and I left to contin!e on

"y 6o!rney.







“The road #eca"e harder for a while. I had #eco"e !sed to

co"pany8 I g!ess8 and to the l!9!ry of hearth and ho"e and "y

"!scles had #eco"e soft and la=y. /!t I persisted8 and s!reeno!gh8 #efore too long8 "y heart grew strong and the life

thrilled thro!gh "e again.

“I travelled thro!gh an arid desert where nothing grew #!t rocks.

4ro" there into foothills rich with springs and cattle?herds. /!t I

was not welco"e here and every where I went I was chased offthe land and they called "e a poacher for "y tro!#les”

“I escaped higher into the "o!ntains and took a drink of water

fro" a strea" there. Hidden in the "o!ntain8 a valley8 an ancient

r!in8 a city long overgrown with weeds.”

“I stayed for days e9ploring there. It was as if the people had

si"ply vanished8 their ho!ses and #elongings left #ehind. There

was a great te"ple and #ehind the altar I fo!nd a passage leading

into a syste" of caves8 and in the caves were roo"s f!ll of great

treas!res. (ot 6!st gold and precio!s 6ewels #!t ancient

"an!scripts of a dead tong!e8 fa#!lo!s works of art preservedso"ehow.”

“I e9plored the caves and spent ho!rs in st!dy8 co"paring their

sy"#ols with lang!ages I'd co"e across8 !ntil I #egan to

!nderstand the secrets they contained.”

© Copyright 2009. Robin Manuell http:hypnoticstorytelling.co! "age )0 o$ 92






“In that secret place away fro" the eyes of "an I #egan to write

down "y own story. I wrote of "y tri!"phs and of "y ecstasies.

&ll those things I was "ost pro!d of. I wrote of "y pain and "ysha"e. I wrote the secrets that are only ever written in the #ook

of the heart.”

“I co!ld have taken those treas!res into the light8 so"e of those

scrolls and "an!scriptsB #!t I g!essed that s!ch a thing wo!ld not

long re"ain secret8 that if I s!ddenly #ro!ght s!ch treas!res intothe land of "en then people wo!ld feel a desire to find that secret

place8 and that secret treas!re8 and to pl!nder it for the"selves.

So"ehow8 I felt it was #etter left there. The only treas!res I

carried o!t fro" that place were those treas!res that I'd fo!nd

inside "yself.”

“I co!ld have stayed in those dark caverns for a life ti"e. there

was so "!ch to learnB #!t I re"e"#ered o!r pro"ise again and I

decided to contin!e on "y 6o!rney.”

“I collected !p "y notes and "y knife and #ow and I left this city

hidden in the valley in the "o!ntains.”

“I tripped and fell so"e ti"e on "y 6o!rney8 and "y leg was

#adly h!rt and #eca"e infected. I had to keep on walking. I

followed the slopes of the "o!ntain as #est I co!ld8 looking for a

place to rest and to tend "y in6!ry. I picked !p a follower8 I

think8 a lone "ale #ear followed "e fro" a distance8 waiting its

© Copyright 2009. Robin Manuell http:hypnoticstorytelling.co! "age )# o$ 92






chance. I #eca"e afraid to stop8 afraid to sleep8 "y infections

grew worse and in desperation I str!ck o!t to the very top of the

"o!ntain8 daring the #ear to follow "e there.

“I left #ehind the "eadows and the slopes and the clo!d forest

that fringed the snow line8 and I p!shed higher. The #ear

followed "e into the cold wastes. I fo!nd a great slope of #roken

rock and cli"#ing to the top of these I settled "yself on a place

fro" which I co!ld watch the "o!ntain #elow. Every ti"e the #ear ca"e in sight I wo!ld throw rocks at it8 dislodge stones so

that an avalanche wo!ld cascade down. I tried to rest. I tried to

sleep.”

“I think I co!ld have frightened the #ear away at last #!t a great

stor" ca"e into the valley and snow settled thick . I #!rrowed"y way into the snow creating a shelter there. So cold.”

“I don't know how "!ch ti"e passed. I fell into a deliri!". I

fo!nd "yself #ack in the caves !nder the city in front of a great

door that sw!ng open to reveal a land dark and fore#oding8 filled

with grey ghosts that followed "e8 their ar"s stretched o!t as iffor al"s.”

“I walked on thro!gh the land till I ca"e to a #lack river. I

wanted to cross the river #!t a wo"an8 naked e9cept for a crown

!pon her head8 appeared there. She said nothing #!t pointed with







her pale hand. Her long fingers see"ed to grow towards "e. She

directed "e #ack the way I'd co"e.

“I awoke to find "yself in the ice cave8 the s!n glowing #rilliant

thro!gh the snow walls. My fever was gone8 "y leg was #etter

I'd s!rvived and escaped the #elly of the #ear.”

“I fo!nd "yself ne9t in a valley little "ore than a shallow #owl

c!t into the side of the "o!ntain. This place see"ed to have its

own cli"ate. It was protected8 e9posed to al"ost constant

s!nlight d!ring the day8 fed #y rich strea"s. Life flo!rished all

aro!nd "e and I stayed here for a long ti"e while I healed and

ret!rned to f!ll strength.”

“hen there was no h!nting to #e done. hen I had eaten well

and slept #etter I wo!ld sit a#ove the valley fro" s!nrise to

s!nset o#serving its passage across the sky8 following the growth

and flo!rishing of the ani"als and plants of the valley. I was an

e"pty 6ar and the valley the water po!red in to fill "e !p.”

“I was never happier. I co!ld have stayed there for the rest of "y

life8 #!t8 again8 so"ething called. I felt I had discovered a great

secret. I wanted to share it with the world. I left the valley

thinking to travel to so"e #ig town or city and fro" there ro!nd

again8 aro!nd the lake. I co!ld see as I ca"e down the "o!ntain8

even8 the great castle rising into the sky. I re"e"#ered o!r

pro"ise.”

© Copyright 2009. Robin Manuell http:hypnoticstorytelling.co! "age )) o$ 92






“&s I passed thro!gh the foothills of the "o!ntain8 I chanced

!pon a far" and I so!ght o!t those that dwelt there for

provisions8 food.”

“There was a #rother and sister nearly grown to ad!lthood. They

told "e their far" had #een attacked and looted8 their parents

killed and their ho!se #!rnt to the gro!nd. They were afraid to

stay for the #andits wo!ld #e #ack de"anding tri#!te and8 well8

they had not the strength or knowledge to work the land as their parents had.”

“They #egged to co"e with "e and taking pity I led the" into

the forest that #orders the lake.”

“&gain "y 6o!rney see"ed to #e interr!pted8 #!t #efore I left

the" I wanted to teach the" everything I knew of how to live8

how to s!rvive. I ta!ght the" the allies and foes of the world of

plants8 the prey and predators of the ani"al world and what I

knew or co!ld teach the" of "an8 the fiercest #east of all.”

“They were 7!ick and keen to learn. They flo!rished@ Soon I

tr!sted that they co!ld s!rvive on their own #!t still I stayed. In

tr!th8 I had fallen for the girl and she for "e and we re6oiced

when she #egan to grow with child.”

“If only we had stayed in the forest. e co!ldn't live for ever

witho!t h!"an co"pany@ The #oy was restless to find one to

© Copyright 2009. Robin Manuell http:hypnoticstorytelling.co! "age )* o$ 92






cleave to8 how co!ld I deny hi" that8 and o!r child.. ell we

needed co"pany8 we needed people. I co!ld not force the" to

take "y path8 tho!gh s!re I think they wo!ld have travelled with"e willingly even to the end.”

“I can #arely speak of what happened ne9t. e fo!nd a s"all

village #y the lake and were welco"ed with open ar"s. e

#ro!ght gifts of food fro" the forest and things that we had

"ade. In the night as we slept a gro!p of "en fro" the villageattacked !s. I woke to the so!nds of a cl!# falling on the #ody of

"y #rother8 the cries of "y wife. :od how we fo!ght she and I.

e fo!ght for o!r lives8 for the life of o!r child. e ran with

nothing fro" that place. e 6!"ped into the lake to swi" away

so we wo!ld not leave a trail of #lood for the" to follow. e

reached the shore a "ile or two fro" the village and I fell into a

sleep.”

“>h8 I wish I had never woken fro" that sleep. I did and fo!nd

"y wife dead #eside "e. >h8 I was so filled with grief I wanted

to die. I did not eat. I did not sleep. I wandered thro!gh the

forest8 a "an "arked for death8 praying that so"e #east wo!ld

"ake a "eal of "e. Ti"e and again I re"e"#ered what had

happened. as I responsi#le; o!ld these two have lived if it

was not for "e; I #eca"e like a ghost8 #!t death wo!ld not take

"e and grief see"ed to 6!st harden "e "ore.”

© Copyright 2009. Robin Manuell http:hypnoticstorytelling.co! "age )+ o$ 92






“Event!ally I "ade a "eal of fr!its and roots I gathered in the

forest and8 saying a prayer for those I had loved and lost8 I #roke

"y fast and resolved to co"plete "y 6o!rney.”

“The people here are good@ They have treated "e well. They

gave "e a ho!se in which to live first and they said nothing and

asked no 7!estions. They fed "e and let "e sleep and rest. &nd

then they sat8 6!st 7!ietly8 silently with "e at first8 one or two8 a

yo!ng #oy here8 an old "an there8 all in passing on the way tothe "arket.”

“&nd they shared this 7!ality that they co!ld 6!st si"ply sit with

"e. They did not ask "e for anything. May#e they shared a

"o"ent of their day with "e #!t they wo!ld sit and look at "e

and s"ile8 and it was like they were #reathing at the sa"e ratethat I #reathed and waiting to hear the so!nd going on in "y

head8 the pict!re I had. She wo!ld 6!st raise her eye#row8 like

this.”

“Soon eno!gh I #egan to talk and tell people "y life and "y

history and what had happenedB and8 as I told "y stories8 they #eca"e eager listeners.”

“They gave "e space and ti"e and see"ed to !nderstand "e as I

shared with the" the e9periences of "y life that had #een so

powerf!l. They were a good people8 7!ick in their generosity8

slow in their anger.”

© Copyright 2009. Robin Manuell http:hypnoticstorytelling.co! "age ), o$ 92






“&s is their tradition here8 after so"e ti"e I was s!""oned

#efore the town co!ncil and asked to give an acco!nt of "y life

in p!#lic. They asked "e 7!estions8 then8 of "y life with "ywife and her #rother5 of the ti"e I had spent in the "o!ntains and

of "y 6o!rney #efore I "et yo!.”

“I told the" everything8 even those things of which I a" least

pro!d. There was a gentleness in their "anner that gave "e

co!rage8 and at the end of the telling I was led away8 and their"eeting contin!ed long into the night witho!t "eB and at the end

of it I was called #ack. I was given this ho!se to stay in and8

weighing "y wisdo" and "y "istakes in the #alance8 the people

have chosen for "e a 6o# for which I a" "ost fit.”

“&nd here I have re"ained ever since.”

(either the H!nter or the Merchant spoke for a while ...

The Merchant says8 “I've got so "any 7!estions to ask yo! a#o!t

that@ That story@ /!t hey yo! "!st #e tired fro" yo!r tale8 its

only fair that I sho!ld tell yo! "ine.”

The Merchant calls for so"e "ore tea and a plate of rich and

filling cakes as they sit in that inn on the foreco!rt8 looking down

on the lake and the castle on the island.

© Copyright 2009. Robin Manuell http:hypnoticstorytelling.co! "age )- o$ 92






(ow8 when the Merchant set o!t on his path8 he already had the

secret knowledge that everyone was e9traordinary. He'd

discovered this very early in life. &nd he discovered that he had aknack8 not only for seeing the dia"ond that's inside everyone.

He also had a knack for knowing 6!st where that dia"ond wo!ld

#e "ost !sef!l. &nd for p!tting the one together with the other.

I don't know ... in yo!r e9perience Igor8 #eca!se I've8 re"e"#er

I was telling yo! a#o!t Sharon;

Sharon who" I worked with in the office and I forgot to tell yo!

an i"portant thing a#o!t her. -an yo! #elieve I'd do so"ething

like that;

Igor5

Shocking@

%o#in5

I was 6!st getting so lost there8 I didn't tell yo! that i"portant fact

a#o!t Sharon.

ell8 Sharon and I !sed to work in this office and8 like I told yo!8

she wo!ld #e on the phone to vario!s record prod!cers and

sending off envelopes.

I g!ess I've always en6oyed going into places where "ay#e I

don't fit in co"pletely8 #!t I always find that I can learn







so"ething e9traordinary. &nd I think that goes #ack to the first

6o# I ever had after finishing "y & levels and #efore I went to

!niversity.

I went and I worked on a #!ilding site for eggy the plasterer.

This g!y eggy was not so"eone who" I wo!ld ever have h!ng

o!t with in nor"al life8 he was a co"plete "ystery.

He was a racist and a se9istB he wo!ld swear all the ti"eB every

other word that he !sed was a swear word8 and he wo!ld stand

there and he wo!ld co""ent on the wo"en on the newspapers

that he readB and then he'd #e really hypocritical8 when there was

a wo"an present it wo!ld #e all8 “>h8 "!stn't swear in front of

the lady@”

I was fascinated #y this g!y. There was this other g!y who

worked at the sa"e place called Steven Shakespeare. Shakey

we called hi". This g!y was 6!st s!ch a nat!ral storyteller and

what he wo!ld do is ... he'd go o!t on a 4riday night and he'd get

dr!nk8 and he'd get into a fight8 and he'd get off with so"e#ody's

girlfriendB and he wo!ld co"e #ack on Monday "orning8 andhe'd tell !s all a#o!t it. It was a"a=ing #eca!se he wo!ld 6!st act

o!t these events in front of !s.

& few years later I went to see a Stephen /erkoff show which

was very physical theatre. I saw what they were doing on stage







and I tho!ght8 that's e9actly like Shakey !sed to do. <!st standing

in front of !s at work on the #!ilding site.

I s!ppose it was these early e9periences that got "e thinking

a#o!t anthropology and ethnology. This is 6!st this idea that yo!

really #egin to investigate different c!lt!res and to recognise that

people are different wherever they co"e fro".

o! know I was #orn in &frica and so in a way that gave "e a

do!#le description when I was growing !p. My ti"e in England8

I already had this other world of &frica to co"pare it with. &s I

was growing !p I #eca"e fascinated with people who go and

live in indigeno!s gro!ps. o!'ve seen the" on the telly@ A or

they go !nder cover with gangs and con artists and things like

this.

I #eca"e an !ndercover ethnologist and this was interestingB this

act!ally proved to #e a very !sef!l skill later in life when I was

working in corporations as a cons!ltant. -os I wo!ld sneak in

so"eti"es and8 yo! know8 go and work there and act!ally get a

feel for what that infor"al at"osphere was like8 that yo! only getto find o!t ne9t to the photocopy "achine and #y the water?

cooler.

Igor5

ell yo! know the interesting thing that yo!'re talking a#o!t

there is ... this again is why I love the way that yo! teach. o!

© Copyright 2009. Robin Manuell http:hypnoticstorytelling.co! "age *0 o$ 92






!se stories to teachB and then yo!'ll act!ally talk a#o!t the whole

process itself and yo! have the left and the right #rain8 the

conscio!s and the !nconscio!s "ind going together.

So"ething which is very interesting a#o!t what yo!'re talking

a#o!t there5 the ethnologists who go in and infiltrate either secret

societies or #e part of so"e tri#e in the "iddle of the 6!ngle

so"ewhere. I think its a very i"portant way of looking at the

world #eca!se yo! can't 6!st st!dy the" fro" a #ookB yo!'ve gotto have the e9perience first then co"e #ack to yo!r nor"al

reality8 so to speak.

Then yo! can start to integrate and find o!t. Here's a description.

Here's how their world view "akes sense given how they think8

#elief8 act and so onB and yo! can't do that 6!st #y o#servingthe". o! can't do that #y 6!st reading a #ook a#o!t the" or

watching a fil". o! have to dive in and live with the".

This is why I ad"ire the way that yo! work. o! know if yo!'re

going to go in and work for a corporation8 or8 rather8 if yo!'re

going to do so"e coaching work there yo!'ll #e act!ally so"eonewho is down in the trenches doing the work firstB and then once

yo! get a sense of what its like to #e there8 then yo! can do

c!lt!ral change #eca!se yo! know what the c!lt!re is.

They don't tell yo! what the c!lt!re8 is yo! act!ally get to

e9perience it first hand which is "!ch "ore i"portant. &nd

© Copyright 2009. Robin Manuell http:hypnoticstorytelling.co! "age *# o$ 92






correct "e if I over step the "ark in what yo!r trying to say8 here

#!t one thing that I think is a really i"portant position for

storytelling is that they are the place where those c!lt!resact!ally co"e to life. That's how yo! can tell what a c!lt!re is.

It's the stories that people tell each other8 like yo! said8 #y the

water cooler.

%o#in5

&#sol!tely

Igor5

It's where that heritage co"es fro" and it's how yo! can change

it as well. -hange the stories that people tell each other and yo!

can change the whole c!lt!reB #!t yo! don't know what stories to

change !nless yo! have people feeding into the" to "ake the"co"e to life again. >ther wise it's 6!st8 “st!ff so"eone invented”

They don't really care a#o!t that too "!ch.

%o#in5

That's very i"portant. There's a "odel that I love.

hen I say it's a "odel its so"ething that's #een invented

a#stractly. It's not e9actly a direct reflection of anything that I

know necessarily e9ists o!t in the real world.

It's fro" “The %evol!tion of Everyday Life” #y %ao!l aneige"

who was one of the 4rench sit!ationist philosophers.







He says that the world co"es into #eing thro!gh creativity and

tho!gh self e9pression8 that self e9pression takes place within a

co""!nity of love8 thro!gh people who learn to work together #y playing together.

Igor5

es and I think that's very i"portant #eca!se that's where the

stories co"e in. This is a the"e that yo!r work has8 and act!ally

yo! started right at the #eginning with this. o! set !p so"ec!riosity loop with Sharon's story and "y story of how we first

"et which I think was a f!nny event.

/!t yo! really get this idea that yo! have to play ga"es8 get

people's i"aginations r!nning away with the". -os yo! only get

to the point8 and this is so"ething which I wo!ld really love for people to get8 this is so"ething which shines thro!gh in how yo!

work with people.

& great storyteller isn't a polished storyteller. & great storyteller

is so"eone who's got a story that is #!rning inside the" to s!ch

an e9tent that they get carried away with it. They can't help #!ttell it. It's like I said I was sitting in a #ar and I was "aking !p

these stories a#o!t people 6!st #eca!se I was #oredB and one of

the" 6!st str!ck "e as so odd and c!rio!s8 I had to share it with a

co"plete strangerB and nor"ally I wo!ldn't 6!st t!rn aro!nd and

6!st talk to the". I wo!ldn't #e interested #!t I had to share it and

we have a story like that which has so "!ch life in it that yo!

© Copyright 2009. Robin Manuell http:hypnoticstorytelling.co! "age *) o$ 92






can't do anything #!t let it go and share it with so"eone else.

Those are the kind of stories that change lives and change

c!lt!res and change all kinds of different things.

%o#in5

It's tr!e. I realise so"eti"es when I've "et people they've told

"e so"ething in the first five ten "in!tes a#o!t the"selves that

later on I realise is f!nda"entally i"portant to !nderstanding

their whole life and how it fits together.

Igor5

ell I think yo! know this goes #ack again to the idea of stories

and this is so"ething8 if I can 6!st #ack track in ter"s of what

yo!'ve #een doing in the last few seg"ents of yo!r story telling.

&s yo! pro#a#ly are aware the story hasn't finished yet8 the loop

will contin!e@

So I'" not going to interr!pt that process8 in fact I don't even

know where the story is going so I can't@ /!t so"ething that I

want to "ention which yo! know people can really get8 is the

story that yo!'re telling ? the H!nter and the Merchant. It's

clearly a "ade !p story. It's got all the overt!res of a classic

fairy tale or story story rather than the personal story.

%o#in5

es

© Copyright 2009. Robin Manuell http:hypnoticstorytelling.co! "age ** o$ 92






Igor5

/!t there is so"ething in that which I think is really i"portant

for !s to draw o!t. It goes #ack to this idea of #eing anethnographer and seeing people fro" their own c!lt!ral point of

view rather than fro" yo!r c!lt!re's point of view. Even if later

one were to descri#e it differently.

That's the idea of a tr!th val!e to a story. Technically yo!'ve #een

lying to !s all day8 right; /eca!se yo!'ve "ade !p a story thatdidn't e9ist. The H!nter never lived5 the Merchant never lived.

%o#in5

>h da"n8 yo! gave away "y secret@@

Igor5

There is no Santa -la!s. So if yo! tho!ght there was then ha ha@@

Cweeping0

/!t there's so"ething "ore i"portant8 #eyond that level of the

tr!th val!e and that is the idea that there is an e"otional tr!th.

hen yo! were telling the story yo! co!ld clearly hear8

especially when it got into the shall we say to!gher areas8 when

we have overt!res that he's going to lose his wife. &nd that

happens.

© Copyright 2009. Robin Manuell http:hypnoticstorytelling.co! "age *+ o$ 92






If yo! listen to that story again8 if yo! "issed it the first ti"e ? I

do!#t yo! co!ld "iss it #eca!se it was pretty o#vio!s. o! got

carried away #y that part8 yo!r own e"otions got s!cked into itand it was clear that yo! either sy"pathised and e"pathised with

the H!nterB and pro#a#ly yo! had yo!r own personal pain of

so"e other things that happened to yo! co"e into it at the sa"e

ti"e. S!ddenly that story8 at least for "e8 #eca"e ten ti"es "ore

powerf!l.

Jp !ntil that point the story was interesting and it had so"e very

clever devices in ter"s of talking a#o!t the str!ct!re of stories8

i"provisation and loving stories8 e9ploring stories in one way

and different ways and we'll tease so"e of these things o!t later

on when we've co"e to the ending of the f!ll story.

4or "e8 so"ething that is very i"portant is the story s!ddenly

took on a co"pletely different8 a "!ch deeper aspect8 a "ore

hypnotic content when yo! switched that on inside yo!rself.

4orgive "e if I 6!"p ahead of so"ething that yo!'re pro#a#ly

going to #e teaching a little #it later on. It "akes sense at this point for "e.

It's the idea that8 how did we get there; How do yo! t!rn a

nor"al story8 a very interesting and engaging story into

so"ething which was s!ddenly "!ch "ore powerf!l. &nd of

co!rse the answer is8 yo! act!ally #eca"e "ore v!lnera#le.

© Copyright 2009. Robin Manuell http:hypnoticstorytelling.co! "age *, o$ 92






This is the really interesting thing a#o!t yo!r work. It p!lls o!t

two of the key the"es yo!'ve #een talking a#o!t in yo!r story.

The Merchant v the H!nter. There are two different story telling paths there. M!t!ally8 they can #e co"#ined. They're not

e9cl!sive to each other #!t the power of the warrior's path8 the

H!nter's path8 is pain8 is s!ffering8 is "essing things !p. It's the

v!lnera#ility where people really find their power.

This is a really i"portant part of storytelling and yo! have a realco!rage8 and I think I really love yo!r coaching process #eca!se

it shows people how to have the co!rage to go to those darker

areas of their lives8 things they don't nor"ally ever share8 and

reveal the" in a way that isn't 6!st going to #e accepted #y their

a!dience so they don't get re6ected #y the" and their worst fears

co"e tr!e8 #!t it act!ally #eco"es very healing.

Like the story of the h!nter in the village. hen he shares his

pain a#o!t his wife and his #est friend who died tragically it

doesn't 6!st get hi" accepted #y the village ? and we get to find

what special task they gave to hi"8 #!t it also clearly #eca"e the

point that t!rned hi" aro!nd fro" #eing lost in grief and

wanting to die ? it #eca"e the point of his salvation as well. &nd

that's a real #ig thingB and it's an i"portant the"e that people

"iss a lot of ti"es and I 6!st wanted to re?e"phasis here.

© Copyright 2009. Robin Manuell http:hypnoticstorytelling.co! "age *- o$ 92






%o#in5

eah8 I think yo!'re right f!nda"entally. There is nothing "ore

powerf!l than that revealing of v!lnera#ility.

/y the way I sho!ld reass!re people really that when yo!

e9perience that v!lnera#ility as a storyteller8 perfor"ing8 for

e9a"ple8 in the way I e9perienced it earlier. It's not so"ething

that yo! get lost in #eca!se at the sa"e ti"e as opening that

channel to v!lnera#ility8 yo!'re still act!ally "aintaining a veryclear head and a really solid gro!nding8 that yo! are here and

now telling a story and that this e"otion is "oving thro!gh yo!.

The e"otion that co"es o!t is not yo!rs to control in a lot of

ways8 it's the gift that yo!r !nconscio!s is a#le to give yo!.

Igor5To take that point a little f!rther8 act!ally 6!st to delve into a

"etaphor that people will #e "ore fa"iliar with fro" the

hypnosis work they've #een doing ...

e were talking a#o!t of co!rse the hypnotist's trance8 the trance

the hypnotist goes into in order to do hypnosis #etter. That's notthe sa"e trance that the s!#6ect goes into8 which is the trance

where their eyes are closed and they're #l!##ering and drooling

away on the floor and having a great ti"e.

It's very hard to do hypnosis when yo! can't act!ally physically

talk8 right;







I think the storytellers e"otions are the sa"e. There is an

a#sol!te tr!th. It was clear yo! were going thro!gh that e"otionB

#!t it's a different way of e9periencing the e"otion than #eingdo"inated #y it. o!'re act!ally releasing it. It's "!ch "ore like

yo! "entioned in the very first interview5 the :reek idea of

catharsis. here e"otions "ove thro!gh yo! in s!ch an

!ninhi#ited way that it #eco"es healing8 it #eco"es releasing8

rather than having this #!##le of negative e"otion trapped

inside of !s it releases !s.

This is so"ething that eith <ohnson talked a#o!t and I think

he's a great storyteller. So"ething that rang a really powerf!l #ell

with "e. He talked a#o!t how8 when yo! "ake a "istake in

I"pro8 in i"provisational theatre ? yo!'re #asically "aking st!ff

!p as yo! go along.

The story ? I've seen whole plays8 like an ho!r long play which

people "ake !p right on the spot8 which is a#sol!tely ingenio!s

to watch. hen it works well horrifying to watch if it doesn't

work o!t8 #eca!se the actors 6!st get it wrong if their "ind is in

the wrong place. It's horrifying #!t when yo! get a good tro!pe

that works well together and has the r!les of i"provisation8 the

r!les of creativity8 drilled into the"8 those r!les act!ally set the"

free to create this a"a=ing piece of work.

>ne of those r!les is8 and this is so"ething that eith <ohnson

was talking a#o!t8 which I think is 6!st ingenio!s a#o!t life in







general8 is that8 when an actor is on a stage and he "akes a

"istake8 he has two choices. He can either feel e"#arrassed and

the a!dience will hate hi". &nd the reason they will hate hi" is #eca!se they are e"#arrassed with hi".

He's 6!st sha"ed the a!dience. The a!dience have got their heart

on their sleeves and they are with the actors with the e"otion on

the stage so when the actor gets e"#arrassed the a!dience get

e"#arrassed with hi" and they feel asha"ed and whatever theactor "ay #e feeling and they don't like hi" for it.

hereas the actor who "akes a "istake8 shr!gs8 s"iles and goes

whoops...

Here's an e9a"ple of it the first ti"e I ever saw this. I was

pro#a#ly seven years old. There was a "!sical recital at school

and one of "y #est friends was playing the clarinet. I still

re"e"#er it to this day. He walks on stage. Every#ody's nervo!s

#ack stage.

He walks on stage8 starts playing his clarinet. & really horri#le

s7!eak co"es o!t. He stands dead silent.. &ll the parents are

a#o!t to cringe in their seats. He p!ts a #ig cheeky #oy grin on

his face and goes “rong@@” and starts again. Every#ody 6!st

cracked !p and I tho!ght8 “I want to #e like yo!@”

© Copyright 2009. Robin Manuell http:hypnoticstorytelling.co! "age +0 o$ 92






%o#in5

I can see that g!y now.

Igor5

That was a really powerf!l "o"ent. That was pro#a#ly #etter

theatre than I've paid good "oney for.

%o#in5

I re"e"#er a si"ilar thing that happened on stage once d!ring a

play “The Thwarting of /aron /ollingrew” and "e and "y co?

actor8 Sarah were in the front of the stage in the "iddle of a

ro!tine and so"e#ody #ackstage ? the Magpie8 who was o!r

assistant ? knocked over so"ething and "ade a #ig kerf!ffle.

Sarah 6!st t!rned ro!nd and she said8 “>h8 silly Magpie@” &nd

6!st "ade it a part of what was going on.

Igor5

That's one of the key #ea!ties or advantages of storytelling8

partic!larly the way that you do it which has a "!ch "ore

spontaneo!s ele"ent to it.

S!re8 yo! prepare storiesB and the story of the H!nter and the

Merchant ? incidentally in case yo! g!ys are wondering8 that is a

story that's never #een told #efore8 ever8 #eca!se I asked %o#in to

create so"e stories to teach !s a#o!t storytelling and he said

“S!re8 I'll "ake so"e st!ff !p.”

© Copyright 2009. Robin Manuell http:hypnoticstorytelling.co! "age +# o$ 92






So this is the first ti"e it's ever #een heard. It "ight even #e the

last@ The point8 tho!gh is5 it's a great storyB and it's clearly one

yo!'ve prepared #!t its also one that evolves8 it grows with thetelling8 it grows with the a!dience. That's the power that we have

as hypnotists8 telling stories. e get to #ring the a!dience in.

It's the incorporation principle all over again. o! know8 yo!'re

doing a reg!lar hypnotic ind!ction and a siren goes #y. hat do

we do ... “and the siren 6!st re"inds yo! how !rgent it is for yo!to #eco"e #etter and stronger h!"an #eing.”

Stories allow !s to do that in a "!ch "ore powerf!l wayB

#eca!se yo! can do!#le realities !p "!ch "ore elegantly8 I

#elieve8 and this is why I think if yo! want to sit there and write

o!t a story and "e"orise it and then recite it that's one thing. /!t!nless yo!'re really trained as an actor to #ring a story to life like

that8 the "!ch "ore powerf!l8 and8 in "y opinion "!ch "ore

powerf!l in life8 for yo! as a hypnotist anyway is to "ake the

stories where yo! know what yo! want to say8 the story is a live

inside of yo! #!t then yo! 6!st "ake it !p as yo! go along.

hy; /eca!se once yo! know the way?points yo! can #ring

things in8 yo! get to "ake a "ention here8 a "ention there8

so"ething that a character says in a story this ti"e ro!nd will

reflect the 7!estion so"eone in the a!dience 6!st had8 right;

%5 &#sol!tely







Igor5

That's where these stories really grow and they drag people in

and people don't want to leave the story.

Like right now8 I "ean one of the reasons this is an !n!s!al

interview for "e. Js!ally I 6!st pipe !p all the ti"e and ask

7!estions and "ake co""ents #!t I can't #eca!se "y "ind is

still st!ck in the stories. >8 I don't want to interr!pt hi" 6!st in

case he starts the story !p again #eca!se I want to hear what'sgoing on ne9t@@ Cla!ghter0

%o#in5

I think it's a very i"portant distinction that yo!'re "aking here

#etween acting and straight dra"a and storytelling and the key

difference is in this relationship to the a!dience. ithstorytelling8 yo!'re right8 yo! have a #asic str!ct!re and yo!

know where yo!'re going and "ay#e yo! have so"e nice florid

phrases that yo!'ve worked into it8 yo! know8 so"e poetic pieces.

Each of those poetic pieces8 of co!rse8 in (L) or in hypnosis

ter"s8 they're anchors8 #y the way. This is a little cl!e for yo! to

#e !sing later.

/eing a#le to asse"#le all of those when yo!'re in a roo" with

people ... o! start telling that story a#o!t a #oy and a girl and it's

not any #oy and girl #eca!se8 as yo! start8 yo! p!t yo!r hand on

the chair of so"e#ody in the a!dience. o! look at the" and yo!

introd!ce the girl. May#e yo! look at so"eone else in the

© Copyright 2009. Robin Manuell http:hypnoticstorytelling.co! "age +) o$ 92






a!dience and yo!'re s!ggesting8 yo!'re #ringing the a!dience into

this. o! allow the" space to interr!pt yo!. May#e they'll have

so"ething that can add to the story. In fact there are techni7!esthat yo! can !se to 6!st stand !p in front of a gro!p of people and

go >@ here are we; ho else is there; Start asking

7!estions. hat happens ne9t; Soon eno!gh yo!'ll #egin to #!ild

a rich story5 people8 they 6!st can't help it.

&nd in order for yo! to #eco"e a fantastic storyteller it's reallyi"portant that yo! step o!t of yo!r #o!ndariesB that yo!8

partic!larly in what yo! read and what yo! see8 yo! know8 get

the newspapers that yo! disagree with or get the "aga=ines that

yo! disagree with8 read stories in genres that yo! wo!ldn't

!s!ally go toB #eca!se yo!'ll get far "ore perspectives on the

world that way.

I also want to say one "ore thing a#o!t v!lnera#ility and the

power of that8 cos8 yo! know8 there're two sides to that. There's

the #eing a#le8 as a perfor"er8 to #e v!lnera#le and to co""it

yo!r #ody to the storyB and there's the v!lnera#ility of sharing

personal infor"ation8 personal stories.

There is nothing that gives yo! "ore a!thenticity yo! and #!ilds

#elief and tr!st with people 7!icker than act!ally #eing honest

a#o!t the things that yo!'re not so pro!d of8 and things that have

happened to yo!8 where yo!'ve learnt great lessons that are !sef!l

for people.

© Copyright 2009. Robin Manuell http:hypnoticstorytelling.co! "age +* o$ 92






May#e that's the difference with the stories I tell. I "ake lots of

"istakes and I'" 7!ite happy to talk a#o!t the". &ltho!gh

so"eti"es I e9pect people to pay "e "ore #efore I'll tell the".

Cla!ghter0

Tr!th. o!'ve got to have so"e #o!ndaries. I fig!re if people are

prepared to co""it to that kind of ongoing process with "e and

share so"ething of the"selves8 then I owe it to the" to share

st!ff that I wo!ldn't share with the general p!#lic. There are

#o!ndaries.

To co"e #ack to v!lnera#ility and tr!th as well. I "et two

wo"en in "y life #oth of who" had very e9tre"e a#!se when

they were children. >ne of the" dealt with it8 l!ckily was

fostered into a fa"ily of co!nsellors and she act!ally got a lot of

help with her anger and her pain and she ended !p living a good

life8 she had a h!s#and and kids A

The other wo"an held on to her anger8 she was really angry #!t

she fig!red she co!ld do so"ething a#o!t it and she went o!t and

she told her story and she act!ally ended !p creating a whole

network of ref!ges for wo"en so they co!ld escape fro"

do"estic violence.

o! see8 they #oth dealt with their anger and their pain8 #!t they

did it in different waysB and #oth of those ways are valid.

© Copyright 2009. Robin Manuell http:hypnoticstorytelling.co! "age ++ o$ 92






hen it gets ro!nd to telling yo!r own tr!th8 I think that there is

a tr!th that shines o!t8 that there is always so"e inner e"otional

tr!th that yo! can share8 while the details of the story that yo!tell "ay#e lies.

Storytelling is lying. It's "ake #elieve and I consistently lie and

change the na"es8 the identities8 the occ!pations8 se9es and

partic!lar sit!ations of8 for e9a"ple8 I tell yo! stories a#o!t

clients that I worked with. There's no way any of that is going to #e tr!e #eca!se I a" very caref!l to protect people's identity like

that.

o! know this g!y Shakey8 for e9a"ple. %eal g!y8 #!t yo! know

yo!'ll never need to "eet hi" or know who he was. /!t I can tell

yo! a story a#o!t how he !sed to regale !s with these advent!res.

The thing a#o!t eggy the plasterer the real cl!e I got to 6!st

how wonderf!l people are8 and how e9traordinary everyone is ..

&fter he'd known "e for a while and he'd co"e to tr!st "e he

started A he'd go A yo! know8 when we take o!r tea #reak

ne9t; !".. as yo! go past the stores8 6!st gra# a #ag of ce"ent

and stick it in the #ack of "y car8 yeah; on't say anything to

anyone a#o!t it.

© Copyright 2009. Robin Manuell http:hypnoticstorytelling.co! "age +, o$ 92






&nd I was like oh@ >h@ here we go ... so"e #it of dodgy dealing.

Sho!ld have known. ell I did it anyway. He was "y #oss8 #it

e"#arrassed.

L!nchti"e we go o!t. e take the #ag of ce"ent and plaster in

the #ack8 we drive o!t to a #ig fieldB and it t!rns o!t that the

local foot#all tea" need to p!t !p so"e new goals. e're

spending o!r l!nch ti"e p!tting the concrete aro!nd the holes for

the goal posts so that eggy can co"e #ack later with so"e ofthe wood he's stolen fro" another site8 and p!t !p so"e goal

posts for this foot#all field ne9t to this cl!# for disadvantaged

yo!th. &nd I s!ddenly ... over ti"e #egan to realise that all these

little side trips he was taking were to give flowers to old ladies or

visit people who were sick.

&nd I really got to see how so"eone who I had reacted to in a

very #ad way at first8 who I tho!ght 6!st isn't "y kind of person8

had so"ething inside the" that was e9traordinary.

I don't know a#o!t yo!8 Igor. I've never "et anyone who didn't

have so"e re"arka#le aspect to their storyB and the a"a=ingthing is that !s!ally yo! don't even realise its re"arka#le #eca!se

it's 6!st yo!. It's 6!st a part of who yo! are. To yo! it's ordinary8

#!t to other people8 it's different8 its interesting8 its fascinating.

© Copyright 2009. Robin Manuell http:hypnoticstorytelling.co! "age +- o$ 92






Igor5

o! know this is very tr!e and this goes #ack to yo!r core idea of

to #e a great storyteller8 yo! need to start #y #eing a great storylistener8 really appreciating the stories8 really appreciating things

that yo! don't !s!ally otherwise hear in people. The other thing

is8 and this is so"ething again which yo!r coaching progra"

#rings o!t8 I think8 and I really like a#o!t how yo! do this ? It's

an idea fro" eith <ohnson. o! don't try and #e an original. If

yo! try and #e an original with yo!r stories yo!'ll pro#a#ly "ess

!p8 and yo!'ll end !p having pretty d!ll stories.

I "ean8 yo! know8 so"eti"es8 when yo!'ve got a little "ore

e9perience8 yo! can get a little "ore original8 whatever it is. /!t

yo!'re "issing the real pay dirt if yo! try and #e original #eca!se

there is no s!ch thing as an original story. Like yo!r classic

e9a"ples8 how "any ti"es have yo! "entioned #oy "eets girl8

and even8 h!nter "eets #rother and sister8 falls in love8 has #a#y

and #a#y dies8 right; That's not a cra=y story. It happens in

everyday life all the ti"e8 right;

et we're still "oved #y it e still wanted to hear what's going

on8 we're still hoping yo! .. that she'd s!rvive. That story wasn't

original8 I "ean its pro#a#ly as clichKd as yo! can get and I hope

yo! don't "ind if I say that in so strong a ter" #eca!se yo!

perfor"ed it and yo! set it !p and yo! allowed it to evolve in

s!ch a powerf!l way that it didn't "atter that it was fa"iliar.







e appreciated it "ore al"ost #eca!se of its fa"iliarity and

that's so"ething really i"portant for people to get5 don't try to #e

clever with yo!r stories8 the cleverness will co"e #y its self.

Try and have an honesty8 going #ack to the tr!th idea8 the

e"otion of a story8 and that's where the power co"es fro". o!

can have a nor"al story and it's fine.

%o#in5

eah8 and 6!st look aro!ndB 6!st look aro!ndB and the ordinary

people aro!nd yo! yo! will find are e9traordinary.

Sharon8 who" I !sed to work in the office with ... & few years

after I'd stopped working there8 I hadn't seen her for a while. She

rang "e !p o!t of the #l!e. She said8 co"e down to the ap -l!#

tonight. There's a la!nch. There's a #ig party@

I went down and I was a"a=ed to discover it was the cele#ration

party for the fact that Sharon was the singer on a n!"#er one

record. Her record was at n!"#er * in the J charts@

This singer I knew8 and s!ddenly she had gone fro" working in

an office to #eing there8 doing e9actly what she wanted to do

with her life. She'd #o!ght her ho!se for cash@ Sat aro!nd and got

very co"forta#le.







o! know we were talking a#o!t the Merchant and how what the

Merchant had was this great skill that he realised that every#ody

is e9traordinary.

hen he set o!t on the path ... (ot long after he had #een

travelling he ca"e !pon a gro!p of :ypsies and the :ypsies

weren't8 at this ti"e and this place ...they weren't welco"e within

the #o!ndaries of the nearest town.

They'd fo!nd a pleasant "eadow8 so"ewhere #ack fro" the lake8

to "ake an enca"p"ent.

The Merchant was a keen follower of stories and he said5

“I decided to find o!t "ore a#o!t the land in which they ca"e

fro". I followed the" down to the "eadow and I asked their

king8 #eca!se yo! know :ypsies have kings too. I asked the" for

per"ission to stay for a few days.”

“I wo!ld sit there with "y pen and collect the stories that I heard

aro!nd "e. I soon discovered that the wo"en of that tri#e8 they

had a great skill with weaving8 especially with "aking carpets.”

&nd the Merchant said A

“I was str!ck with an idea and i""ediately sprang into action.

&fter "!ch #argaining I agreed that I wo!ld go into the town and

© Copyright 2009. Robin Manuell http:hypnoticstorytelling.co! "age ,0 o$ 92






p!rchase the "aterials that wo!ld #e needed for the" to "ake

"ore of these r!gs and carpets. I wo!ld #egin to look o!t for

so"e c!sto"ers for the". So I went to the town8 I "ade s!re thewo"an had everything they needed and that "y invest"ent was

safe with the".”

“I set "yself !p a little shop and I #egan taking orders fro" the

wives of the town. >nce I had so"e sa"ples of the :ypsies'

handiwork the carpets #egan to sell the"selves. 4or everyone inthe town co"peted over who sho!ld have the finest ho!se.”

“ell8 the ing of the :ypsies was well pleased with the

#!siness we did with the first set of carpets. He agreed to

contin!e with the trade as long as the land was welco"ing to

the".”

“This p!t "e in a good position. I had eno!gh "oney to pay

so"eone to r!n the shop8 and the "aterials for "any "ore

carpets. &nd I had a little insight. /eca!se the :ypsies had #een

"aking pict!res on their r!gs8 they'd #een "aking decorations.”

“They "ade pict!res of the "o!ntains and the lakes aro!nd !s

and scenes fro" the village and the castle. &nd after I had spent

a little while in the town and talked to the gossip "ongers and the

r!"o!r "illers I ca"e #ack with so"e s!ggestions of little ideas

and devices for the :ypsy wo"en to p!t into their designs.”

© Copyright 2009. Robin Manuell http:hypnoticstorytelling.co! "age ,# o$ 92






“So this ti"e when the scene of the town was painted ? the ho!se

on the hill was on fire as it was that ti"e A or when the castle

was pict!red5 there was a lady looking o!t into the wood and alittle lover hiding there8 her secret lover.”

“e #egan to p!t the town and the whole area and their little

stories into the tapestries and they sold like cra=y@@”

“I contracted with another Merchant to s!pply a shop in the ne9t

town aro!nd the lake. I #egan to !se "y new infl!ence to gain an

a!dience with the Lord of the s!rro!nding land. He lived in a #ig

villa overlooking the town.”

“I was a reg!lar soon at festivals and feasts@ &nd the no#les of

the town held great parties to which I was always invited.”

“If yo! go to that place now yo!'ll still see all the walls of the

great halls and every #edroo" h!ng with one of these r!gs8 one

of these carpets. The :ypsies had e9celled the"selves and in

their enth!sias" they #egan to work "agic into their designs.”

“(ow when I was at the great ta#le at the illa8 I #egan to hear

stories of the :reat ing and the castle in the "iddle of the lake.”

“It was said #y the no#les of the town8 tho!gh not in his

presence8 that even their Lord had #een ref!sed ad"ittance. To

gain ad"ittance8 the s!pplicants8 yo! see8 had to de"onstrate







great learning8 great acco"plish"ent in the world. Even then8 to

have the right to enter the castle was apparently at the whi" of

those who g!arded it. So"e people clai"ed that to view thegardens and the li#raries of the castle yo! had to apply in writing

to the ing. >thers said no8 no. (o application was possi#le. (o

"atter how "!ch yo! wanted to visit the castle8 entry was #y

invitation only and no one knew when or how the invitation

wo!ld co"e.

“& few even clai"ed yo! needed no special 7!alifications to

enter at all. These people clai"ed that anyone #rave eno!gh

co!ld enter so long as they co!ld pers!ade so"eone to carry

the" across the lake. It was the 4erry"an they said who had the

final nay or yea a#o!t who sho!ld #e ad"itted.”

“It was at the ta#les of the no#les of the town that I also #egan to

hear talk of a secret society8 a shadowy gro!p of "asters who

ta!ght an ... occ!lt science8 that wo!ld answer the 7!estions we

o!rselves had asked as we travelled along the road.”

“Intrig!ed as I was I had "ore pressing considerations.”

“I knew8 e9perienced as I was in the ways of #!siness8 that

sooner or later so"e other Merchant wo!ld #egin to copy "y

s!ccess in the r!gs and the carpets and s!ch like. There wo!ld #e

new "arkets to sell to #!t "y "argins wo!ld #e red!ced. I knew

it was ti"e to #e on "y wayB so I fo!nd a"ong the Merchants of

© Copyright 2009. Robin Manuell http:hypnoticstorytelling.co! "age ,) o$ 92






the town a tr!sted #!yer for the #!siness8 and satisfying "yself

that "y o#ligations to the :ypsies were f!lfilled8 I packed !p "y

#elongings and contin!ed on "y 6o!rney.”

“I'd "ade a good s!" of "oney fro" "y latest vent!re. I left

with two servants8 three horses laden with "erchandise

sa"ples of the r!gs #!t also gold and 6ewellery finely worked8

and the #eginning of a li#rary of old #ooks.”

“ell8 we travelled along the lake very co"forta#ly8 trading and

gossiping on the way8 picking !p little tit#its of knowledge that

the lake dwellers and the people who passed along the ro!te

shared with !s. It was d!ring this part of the 6o!rney that I ca"e

!p with "y second great #!siness sche"e.”

“I #egan to realise that the "ost val!a#le co""odity of all8 "ore

val!a#le than gold and 6ewellery even8 was knowledge. The

price of fish in the "arkets along the lake shore. The Merchants

travelling along the road and the goods they were carrying. The

#irth or death of friends or ene"ies8 all these little pieces of

gossip that passed fro" "o!th to ear8 they had val!e to the right people. &s we contin!ed along o!r ro!te I tho!ght long and hard

a#o!t how I co!ld !se this infor"ation to "y advantage and #y

the ti"e we reached the ne9t town I had a plan in "ind.”

“I settled "y retin!e into a hostel. Tr!sting the" to get on with

the work of "y e9isting #!sinesses8 I p!t "y latest sche"e into

© Copyright 2009. Robin Manuell http:hypnoticstorytelling.co! "age ,* o$ 92






action. I contacted a Merchant who printed engravings. I

contacted a "e"#er of one of the societies of no#les that I had

6oined while in the previo!s town. ith the contacts8 "y "oney8the printers8 we recr!ited a tea" of r!nners who" we #egan to

send o!t in #oth directions aro!nd the lake. Their 6o# was to

record all the gossip8 the news and to relay it #ack to !s as

7!ickly as they co!ld.”

“e created a society of s!#scri#ers fro" a"ong the richest ofthe Merchants. e #egan to p!#lish reg!lar #roadsheets of all the

infor"ation we collected8 hastening the progress of infor"ation

aro!nd the lake.”

“ell I need not ela#orate to yo! on the details of "y sche"e #!t

I will say that we flo!rished@ e recr!ited printers in othertowns8 "essengers fro" the land #eyond the lake. /efore long I

"oved "y operations into a great villa on the o!tskirts of the

town.”

“There wasn't roo" to store the riches I #egan to acc!"!late8 #!t8

knowing that in #!siness a fall can co"e at any ti"e8 I !sed the"oney wisely. I #o!ght land8 ho!ses8 invested in solid #!sinesses

and diversified "y so!rces of inco"e so I was protected against

any s!ch event.”

“ell8 "y #!siness affairs #eing in order I #egan to think of the

sweeter things that life has to offer. I had a #ea!tif!l villa #!t it

© Copyright 2009. Robin Manuell http:hypnoticstorytelling.co! "age ,+ o$ 92






was e"pty of life and love. My fa"e was spreading far and

wide. It was not long #efore the invitations to feasts and dances

and cele#rations #egan to po!r thro!gh the doors and I availed"yself of the opport!nities I co!ld. I was approached #y "any

fathers offering "e their da!ghters. Several ti"es I was te"pted

#!t fate intervened.”

“>ne day8 working in the li#rary contin!ing "y st!dies into

occ!lt "atters8 I chanced to fall into conversation with a wo"analso st!dying there. She was a lay sister in a near#y "onastery

who had dedicated her life to higher st!dies #!t now wished to

ret!rn to the world. e 7!ickly realised we were kindred so!ls

and #efore the week was !p we were wed and she ret!rned to live

with "e at the villa.”

“&h@ (ow a new world of e9perience opened !p to "e ? #esides

the 6oy of o!r physical love for one another8 a great respect and

affection grew #etween !s. e shared what we'd learned of

higher knowledge. My #!siness prospered and within a year god

#lessed !s with twins a #oy and a girl child. e adopted two

"ore children fro" a poor fa"ily and !nder the infl!ence of

Maria "y wife we #egan to do good works aro!nd the region8

providing al"s8 #!ilding hospitals8 yo! know the kind of thing.”

“I "!st tell yo! now of a certain "atter. Soon after I conceived

of the #!siness of news8 I was approached #y the "ayor of the

town who invited "e to 6oin a select gro!p of no#les who

© Copyright 2009. Robin Manuell http:hypnoticstorytelling.co! "age ,, o$ 92






engaged in the st!dy of a certain #ook. I progressed swiftly

thro!gh the c!rric!l!" of the society and was initiated into

certain secret cha"#ers8 gro!ps who "et in secret and whoseidentities were hidden even fro" each other.”

“I #egan to learn the tr!e nat!re of the castle and the :reat ing

who dwelt there. In tr!th I #eca"e a little wrapped !p in these

"atters. St!dying "aps and diagra"s late into the night8

neglecting "y fa"ily and the d!ties of "y #!siness. If it had not #een for "y wife perhaps things wo!ld have gone #adly for "e8

#!t she took "e to one side. She "ade it very clear where "y

#est interests lay@”

“I kept on with "y st!dies #!t I #egan to spend "ore ti"e with

the children and on o!r philanthropic work.”

“(ow "y #!sinesses were well esta#lished #y and save for a

co""on d!ty of care to those I entr!sted with "y affairs8 I had

no need to work.”

“My fa"e had spread aro!nd the e"pire. )eople #egan to

receive visitors asking for an a!dience. %e7!ests for "e to give

lect!res. They wanted to share the secrets of "y s!ccess in

#!siness and in life. 'Look at his wealth' they said 'look at his

fa"ily and his rep!tation. Look at his #ea!tif!l villas8 his far"s

his ho!ses in all the towns aro!nd the lake. S!rely here is a "an

© Copyright 2009. Robin Manuell http:hypnoticstorytelling.co! "age ,- o$ 92






who can show !s the way we "ay #e as happy and s!ccessf!l as

he is.'”

“ell the tr!th was there were certain "atters I wanted to share

and "y feet itched for the road.”

“I'd learnt so "!ch8 #!t "y thirst for the 6o!rney to the castle was

!ndi"inished. >n the contrary it was strengthened. (ow I

#elieved I held the key that wo!ld gain "e ad"ittance to the

li#raries and gardensB and perhaps even an a!dience with the

:reat ing hi"self.”

“/!t I had a pro#le"8 Igor.”

Igor5

and what was that..

%o#in5

“ell8” said the Merchant8 “I didn't want to leave "y wife@ I

didn't want to leave "y children@ It was here again that "y wife

proved her worth. Sensing "y restlessness she took "e aside

again and she said 'Look8 do yo! think yo! are the only one who

wants to see "ore of the world. I want to forge a rep!tation

too@'”

“I saw that I'd fallen into the role of a h!s#and and a father and in

doing so I'd cast her in the role of wife and "other. I'd forgotten







the very thing that #ro!ght !s together in the first place8 which

was this 7!est for knowledge.”

“So we left o!r #!siness in capa#le hands and we #egan a great

lect!re to!r fro" town to village8 so"eti"es diverting here or

there8 always heading ro!nd the lake to this8 o!r final "eeting

place.”

“)eople flocked to see o!r lect!res now. Maria had proved to #e

a powerf!l orator as well. She co!ld ro!se an a!dience8 invoking

in the" a great will to s!cceed@ I wo!ld lect!re8 too8 and answer

the "any 7!estions p!t to "e.”

“ell8 this has #een "y life for al"ost a year now. I confess

we've "ade as "!ch "oney again fro" o!r to!r as I ever did

fro" the newspapers@”

“I "!st tell yo! of one thing that happened on this last part of the

6o!rney8 tho!gh8 that did shake "y faith. ell8 we had crossed a

river and were looking for a place to stay8 6!st to rest and take o!r

l!nch8 and we saw a gro!p of people listening to a "an on the

#ank overlooking the river ? o#vio!sly another teacher.”

“e settled o!rselves down8 away fro" the crowd and8 as soon

as I knew everything was #eing set !p8 I went to the edge of the

gro!p and #egan listening.







“The "an looked !p8 he spotted "e8 o!r eyes "et. I swear a

shiver passed down "y spine then. There was so"ething honest

in his look8 so"e power I had not felt #efore.”

“The tr!th is I felt he saw "e for what I was and what I was was

a well "eaning #!t #!"#ling and po"po!s old fool.”

“There yo! go.”

“He s"iled a welco"eB he gest!red for "e to sitB he didn't

interr!pt the flow of his story. (ow I've st!died with "any

teachers. Many of the" #elieved they were the g!ardians and

prophets of a great tr!th. This "an didn't have any of that. He

didn't answer 7!estions8 he asked the"@ He wo!ld say 'perhaps'

and '"ay#e' and 'I don't know'. &nd when he chose to answer a

7!estion he'd 6!st #egin to tell a story8 it wo!ld #e a si"ple story.

4irst yo!'d think it was a#o!t one thing then yo!'d #e s!re it was

a#o!t so"ething else. &nd then again yo!'d thing it was a#o!t

nothing at all@ /!t so"ehow yo! were left with the feeling that

yo!r 7!estion was answered8 or wo!ld #e if yo! 6!st went away

and drea"t on it so"e "ore. It wasn't 6!st what he said thataffected "e so greatly8 #!t the "anner in which he spokeB there

was a strength8 a gentleness in hi". It was as if he had no fear of

anything at all.”

© Copyright 2009. Robin Manuell http:hypnoticstorytelling.co! "age -0 o$ 92






“Listening to hi"8 I felt all the knowledge8 all the #ooks that I'd

read8 6!st dissolving aro!nd "e. There was so"e si"ple tr!th in

6!st the words that ca"e o!t of his "o!th.”

“Seeing an opport!nity8 I asked the 7!estion that had #een "y

st!dy for the whole of "y 6o!rney aro!nd the lake. 'Teacher8' I

asked8 'what's the tr!e nat!re of the :reat ing of the Lake; How

can I gain ad"ittance to the castle;'”

“The "an looked at "e. I wondered 6!st how old he was. He said

'I'll give yo! an answer. I do not think it is the answer yo! were

looking for8 #!t it's the only answer I have.”

“'There is a kind of fish that lives in this lake8 #eca!se yo! know8

all the roads8 all the rivers in this part of the world they lead

down to this lake8 and all the stories end here.”

“'There's a fish that lives in this lake. It's an ancient deni=en that

has lived here long #efore "an ca"e.8 The fish are #orn in the

yo!ng strea"s at the foot of the "o!ntains. They grow to

ad!lthood8 they flow down the strea"8 down to the river and into

the lake. They re"ain there in the lake for perhaps a year8 they

feed they grow strong. <!st #efore the anniversary of their #irth

they're filled with a great yearning8 an inescapa#le desire8 and

they set off on a 6o!rney #ack !p the river8 #ack !p the strea" to

the very place they were #orn. (o one knows how they get there.

How they know that that's their place. /!t they "ate there. They

© Copyright 2009. Robin Manuell http:hypnoticstorytelling.co! "age -# o$ 92






lay their eggs8 and for "any that is the end of their short

e9istence. -os the 6o!rney #ack to that place is so tiring. They're

e9ha!sted8 they die. <!st a few of those fish s!rvive the diffic!lt 6o!rney and are carried #y the strea"8 #ack to the river #ack to

the lake.”

“'&nd they live o!t the year again8 they feed and they grow

strong. >nce they've done that once ... It's rare for a fish to "ake

this 6o!rney even once #!t rarer still for one to "ake it twice8 #!tonce they've "ade it twice8 those fish that do s!rvive grow #igger

and stronger with each year's 6o!rney and they live8 no one

knows how long.”

“'(ow the philosophers and the scientists8 they will tell yo! that

it's the sa"e water that flows fro" the "o!ntains8 thro!gh thestrea"8 into the lake8 it's the sa"e water that gets evaporated o!t

into the clo!d and falls again on the "o!ntain and travels down

the strea" and into the river and into the lake.

“'/!t yo! never cross the sa"e strea" twice. It's always

different.”

“'I don't know who yo!r king is. I've never "et hi". I don't

know what awaits yo! in the castle.”







“'If I did "eet the :reat ing I s!spect that I wo!ld discover that8

6!st like yo!8 he had #een a #oy8 and 6!st like yo!8 he will #e an

old "an. He is a "an is he not8 6!st like yo!;'”

“ell I did not know what to say8 I had nothing to say.”

“It was as if I had to find a whole new way of looking at the

worldB and to #e honest I'" not s!re if I have fo!nd it yet.”

“/!t I did know that I had to co"plete "y 6o!rney. I had to

know the tr!th. I wanted to gain ad"ittance to the castle. I

cannot tell yo! what it is8 #!t the desire is still inside of "e. hat

do yo! say;”

The H!nter pa!sed and listened. He looked aro!nd there at the

town at the lake8 at the castle on the island in the lake.

“hat 6o!rneys we've had.” he said. “e set o!t in different

directions and yet we arrived at the sa"e place and fo!nd each

other.”

“hat ne9t;” said the Merchant. “Let's chance o!r ar"8 let's

co"plete o!r 6o!rney together. I have "ore gold than we can

carry8 "ore titles than I can write on "y coat. Together we have

e9perience8 skill and "!ch wisdo". I long to stand in the garden

of the castle. I long to per!se its li#raries and talk with its king.

© Copyright 2009. Robin Manuell http:hypnoticstorytelling.co! "age -) o$ 92






Let !s not wait any long8 I will send word #ack to "y ho!se8

fetch "y wife8 together we take a #oat. Let's go@”

The H!nter la!ghs and for the first ti"e since we've seen hi"

there is an ease and a nat!ral 6oy in hi". He s"iles at his friend.

“&h8 "y friend8” he says.” e'll travel to the castle today.”

“o!'re learning8 yo!r tales8 they'll serve yo! well with the :reat

ing. He loves to talk and to learn of the affairs of his kingdo".

/!t yo! will need no gold today8 no gold will #!y yo! a passage.

There's only one ferry passes across to the island. &nd I a" the

ferry"an.

Igor5

So8 %o#in that's 6!st fantastic8 that story8 it's involved8 it's

detailed8 it co"es in f!ll circle. I love the way that yo! finish the

story with the act!al 7!est which is to find the ferry"an in the

first place. Then of co!rse one of the" has #eco"e the very

person.

So"ething ca"e !p at the end of that story which we haven't

really to!ched on yet. e've to!ched on it indirectly a few ti"es.

It's an e9tension of the idea that the #iggest power of stories

co"es thro!gh v!lnera#ility. e had it with the H!nter with his

powerf!lly "oving tale8 #!t we also 6!st had it there with the

Merchant who #eca"e a scholar and how "!ch "ore char"ing

he #eco"es. hen he talks a#o!t his s!ccesses it's fine8 it's

© Copyright 2009. Robin Manuell http:hypnoticstorytelling.co! "age -* o$ 92






interesting. /!t the #it where I8 and I think people generally will

get the strongest connection to the story8 is the #it where he t!rns

aro!nd8 "eets this other teacher and is 7!ite honest a#o!thi"self. He says8 “o! know I was a #!"#ling old fool. ell

"eaning8 #!t 6!st an idiot any way.”

It goes #ack to what yo! said #efore8 the power of so"ething8 the

#it where yo! get s!cked in s!ddenly and so"ething deeper

happens in the story is when yo! are willing to #e v!lnera#le.

The #it I want to talk a#o!t here is creating the safe space8 within

which it can happen.

It happened with the H!nter #eca!se people were very kind and

let hi" be first. They listened in a certain way.

It happened with the Merchant8 #eca!se when he was connecting

with that teacher there's a wisdo"8 there's a sense of acceptance

of what is going on there.

It happens to !s as an a!dience when we hear so"eone sharing

so"ething "ay#e painf!l or e"#arrassing and we want to

enco!rage the" or we want to #e there for the".

The 7!estion then is8 how do we create that safe space so the

people who are going to go down "ore of the advent!rer's path8

are a#le to share those v!lnera#le "o"entsB to "ake "ore

© Copyright 2009. Robin Manuell http:hypnoticstorytelling.co! "age -+ o$ 92






powerf!l "o"ents with people; How do they create a safe space

to tell it in an appropriate way that's not going to "ake people

take advantage of the" or get the" to lose face in so"e waythat is going to #e detri"ental to the".

%o#in5

It's always i"portant to #ear in "ind politics. I g!ess people

aren't always nice.

However8 I've generally fo!nd that "ost people I "eet ... and for

e9a"ple in the sit!ation of presenting or perfor"ing in front of a

large gro!p of people where yo!'re all gathered together ... The

fact is that those people want to see yo! s!cceed. o! saw that

earlier. The s!ccess8 yo!r a#ility to #e v!lnera#le in the "o"ent

in front of a gro!p of people si"ply depends on that space that iscreated #etween yo! and the a!dience.

It's so"ething that yo! have to feel o!t for yo!rselfB #!t yo!

recognise it. I've had people co"e !p to "e in "y life and 6!st

say8 “I don't know why #!t for so"e reason I think I can tell yo!

this.”

o!'re act!ally giving o!t a 7!ality of non?6!dg"ent8 of respect

and appreciation for all that they are. hen yo! do that8 yo! let

people #e the"selves. hen yo! recognise that in yo!rself8 that

7!ality of #eing a great a!dience "e"#er8 yo!'ll realise that

when so"eone is telling yo! a story8 partic!larly when it's

© Copyright 2009. Robin Manuell http:hypnoticstorytelling.co! "age -, o$ 92






so"ething for which they feel v!lnera#le or strongly a#o!t8 yo!'ll

#e aware that yo! react in certain ways to enco!rage the"8 to

de"onstrate to the" that they have the space8 that yo! are goingto give the" that space.

Si"ply notice those feelings8 #eca!se8 as we said at the

#eginning8 #eing a great storyteller is a#o!t #eco"ing aware of

the space where the story "eets the a!dience. hen yo! can #e a

great a!dience8 when yo! can !nderstand how yo! draw o!tstories fro" other people8 partic!larly those ones in which they

feel v!lnera#le8 then yo!'ll !nderstand the 7!ality that yo! have

to do it for yo!rself now.

I think it's i"portant to say when yo!'re #eing a storyteller yo!

are playing a role. There's a f!nction that yo! are playingB andwhat I #elieve8 when yo! are tr!ly perfor"ing at yo!r #est8

yo!'ve stepped into a place of flow and creativity where yo!'re

not responsi#le8 to so"e degree8 for what co"es o!t. There is a

gift working inside yo!.

(ow yo!'ll notice certain stories yo! connect with8 and certain #its of the stories that I've told today8 will have resonated with

yo! "ore than others. >thers yo!'ll have gone8 “>h yeah8 yeah.”

It's like ... I read #ooks all the ti"e and so"eti"es they'll go into

florid depictions of landscape. ell8 I don't act!ally need to read

every word of that8 I can 6!st look at the paragraph or the page8

© Copyright 2009. Robin Manuell http:hypnoticstorytelling.co! "age -- o$ 92






"ake a pict!re in "y head of what it is the words are descri#ing

and flick onto the ne9t page.

I don't have to read every single word8 so I'll ski" thro!gh it and

there'll #e parts of stories that yo!'ll think aren't directly relevant

to yo!. Hey8 g!ess what. It's a s"oke screen. /its that are going

to #e powerf!l to different people8 different people are going to

respond in different ways.

o! can hide a real e"otional tr!th8 #eca!se the stories that co"e

aro!nd it prepare the gro!nd8 they set the scene8 #!ild !p the

charactersB and they create engage"ent8 so that when yo! get to

the kicker8 that story where the v!lnera#ility 6!st co"es o!t8

yo!'re protected. o!'re protected #y the "yth of story. o!'re

protected #y the cloak of the storyteller. That "eans thateveryone knows that what yo! are telling are lies and everyone

knows that it's 6!st "ake #elieve8 even if its not.

&nd there's a very different 7!ality to the feeling of v!lnera#ility

that yo! e9hi#it as a storyteller8 as opposed to the v!lnera#ility

that yo! "ight e9press to a nearest and dearest. There is thisact!al very strong will8 this strong intention that is str!ct!red

aro!nd the story and it's that strong will and that str!ct!re that

ena#le the flow8 that ena#le the gift of creativity to co"e o!t and

connect with people.







hat I'" co"ing ro!nd to saying is that #eing v!lnera#le is

pro#a#ly going to #e a lot easier than yo! tho!ght it was. <!st

like the g!y who went8 “oh@ >h silly8” and la!ghed8 and wasn'tafraid to la!gh on the stage.

Igor5

ell I think so"e of the i"portant things to co"e o!t of that

little ro!nd trip yo! gave !s there8 and8 again8 I totally agree with8

is first of all8 its state of "ind8. Like hypnosis8 if yo! have astrong hypnotic intent8 people will go into trances and do all

kinds of weird st!ff.

If yo! have a strong hypnotic do!#t8 then that gets transferred

and people will react. )eople tend to reciprocate the strongest

fra"e that's #eing created at that point in ti"e. So #y practisingwith other people8 #y #eing a#le to tease o!t their storie ?. I

partic!larly like that as an e9ercise. Tease o!t their stories and

their v!lnera#ilities in a way that they feel safe8 not 6!st telling

yo!8 #!t afterwards8 having told yo!8 it feels like the right thing.

It #eco"es an !n#!rdening for the"8 while yo! can respect the"

as a h!"an #eing8 despite whatever e"#arrass"ents they've

gotten the"selves into.

>nce yo! can go there with other people and yo!'ve done eno!gh

that yo! have this general attit!de that hey8 it's fine. o!'re a

h!"an #eing. I still like yo!. I still respect yo! despite the fact

that yo! "essed this !p in yo!r life. It's tr!e yo! #ehaved pretty







despica#ly in that sit!ation8 #!t I respect yo! for having co"e o!t

of that as a #etter person. 4or wanting to not do that again.

>nce yo! have that attit!de inside yo!rself8 other people start

reciprocating it #eca!se #y telling the story8 #y sharing the

v!lnera#ility fro" the sa"e place8 even8 tho!gh there's e"otions8

like I was really e"#arrassed or whatever8 yo!'re #asically telling

people8 here's how yo! get to respond to this8 #y the way.

In a weird sort of way when yo!'re a#o!t to tell so"ething that is

v!lnera#le8 "y "ind at least a!to"atically #egins to re?fra"e the

sit!ation or create fra"es ahead of ti"e. I know that I can't tell

this story yet8 #eca!se I can see where the people listening are at.

&nd they're not in the place where I wo!ld #e if I was listening to

a story that was e"#arrassing or sha"ef!l in a way that wo!ld #ea #arrier to telling it. So I have to tell so"e stories first or I have

to create so"e fra"eworks first which takes the" there.

>nce they ac7!ire that space I go8 “>kay8 these people are here

now”. (ow I can start opening this door way !p and taking a

look inside it . This is a very delicate roo" so please #e caref!lwith it. They're now cal"ed down eno!gh that they can deal with

that fragility in a way that doesn't dis?e"power the" as an

a!dience either.

&nd it's 6!st a 7!estion of8 as yo! p!t it #efore8 I really like this

as an e9ercise. )ractise getting other people to share their secrets







with yo!8 and respecting those secrets8 and #y doing that yo!'re

#!ilding a "ental "!scle that lets the rest happen a!to"atically.

It's a strange sort of e9perience when it happens.

%o#in5

&nd 6!st a fra"e for those of yo! who find yo!rselves8 #eca!se it

does happen8 and8 again8 I totally agree with is8 first of all8 its

state of "ind. o! say the wrong story in the wrong sit!ation.

It's a danger that yo! "ay co"e across. Think of it this way.o!'re act!ally an e9plorer8 an advent!rer. hatever "ost people

have in co""on8 whatever the co""on "ood is that prevails in

that roo". If yo!'re crashing into it then yo!'re act!ally "ore

likely to #e on the crest of the ne9t wave.

Igor5eah8 and8 yo! know8 I think the i"portant thing8 this goes #ack

to the idea of taking risks. I don't think yo! wo!ld say that yo!

take needless risks or st!pid risks8 and 6!st #l!rt st!ff o!t. /!t

yo! do take certain types of risks8 they're controlled risks8 they're

risks that we !nderstand.

It's like in a roo" yo! want to "ove it forwards The energy

always has to "ove forwards8 otherwise it dies. o! take the

energy forwards #y essentially going right #ack down to #asics8

which is8 yo! tr!st yo!r !nconscio!s. It tells yo!8 hey do this one

nowB hey so"eti"es it gets it wrong. So what.







The point8 tho!gh is8 if yo! listen to it8 it very 7!ickly #eco"es

att!ned. o! #eco"e att!ned to a gro!p and !nderstand how

and what to say and this has #een "y e9perience a few ti"es. (ot as often as I'd like #!t I'" still growing "y own story telling

wings as I'" going along.

>ne thing that's happened to "e is I end !p saying so"ething or

telling so"ething8 a story that at first see"s inappropriate. It's

like there's a "o"ents pa!se. )eople kind of sh!ffle off. o!'regoing “>h "y god8 what have yo! done@” /!t so"ehow that

opens a door that everyone else was avoiding8 that was i"portant

to #e opened8 and as a res!lt of it things start co"ing o!t where

it's s!ddenly >. In retrospect the story #eco"es the perfect

thing to have said and it t!rns o!t to #e the right thing after all.

%o#in5

It's like yo! go into work the night after the office party and the

first thing yo! say is8 “o yo! think we sho!ld "ention that yo!

and /ar#ara slept with each other last night;”

Igor5So8 %o#in8 yo!'ve taken !s on a fascinating 6o!rney. o!r story

has #een delightf!l. o!'ve "anaged to weave in all kinds of

i"portant principles and we've talked a#o!t the" in?#etween the

sections as well.







I'" 6!st staggered #y how "!ch is in that story. The idea that

everyone can do it8 it's a powerf!l thing. o!'ve taken !s thro!gh

a powerf!l e"otional roller?coaster.

I think if yo! weren't #efore8 after listening to that story8 already

we start to learn to listen8 to love stories #etter. e have a real

awareness of how stories can co"e in different placesB #eca!se

yo!'ve told different types of stories thro!gho!t this whole thing.

o! have the the"e of the H!nter and the Merchant8 #!t yo!

weave in all kinds of other things as well. )ersonal stories8 stories

fro" yo!r own life8 stories which were disg!ised as facts8 and all

kinds of other things in #etween.

It really goes into yo!r core idea8 which is we want to learn to

love stories8 listen to stories8 collect stories8 and at the sa"e ti"e8

how do yo! collect the"8 how do yo! find those stories;

It's #y !nderstanding people8 #y #eing willing to find that

dia"ond in the ro!gh8 inside of everyone else8 which is a story

waiting to co"e o!t.

&nd in the process of !ncovering that8 we act!ally learn so"e

tre"endo!sly i"portant skills of the storyteller's art. The whole

storytelling tradition #eco"es part of what we're re?discovering8

as people and as hypnotists in partic!larB this is really i"portant.







hat we're saying really is5 we're working #ack with the

!nconscio!s. e're going #ack to that place where the

!nconscio!s is protecting itself and saying8 yo! can tr!st "e withthis one. That's what we're doing as hypnotists8 anyway8 it's 6!st

another way of learning it.

o!'ve thrown so"e intrig!ing pe##les o!r way which I look

forward to e9ploring with yo! later on in this session here. o!'re

sharing with !s8 for e9a"ple8 things aro!nd creativity andi"provisation8 co"ing as a res!lt of str!ct!re. So having r!les

that li"it yo!8 are the very r!les that set yo! "ore free.

That's a little the"e that's #eginning to develop here which I look

forward to e9ploring with yo! "ore f!lly later on.

e've clearly seen how having an e"otional range draws yo!

into the story "ore f!lly. e can't have doo" and gloo" all the

ti"e8 we can't have happiness and 6oy all the ti"eB #!t we can go

on a roller?coaster of an advent!re with the".

The story of the advent!rer8 of the H!nter was very "oving8 very

powerf!l and8 in a different way8 the story of the Merchant was5

very edifying8 very ed!cational. It took !s thro!gh different types

of e9periences so yo! get to choose the kind of stories that take

yo! thro!gh the e9perience that people need to have.







The key thing is this idea that stories create realities for !s. I'"

going to #e listening to this story over and over again #eca!se it

really has ... it's like an encyclopedia of storytelling. It's got thedifferent attit!des of stories5 the safer stories that teach8 the

riskier stories that li#erate8 or the riskier stories that transfor"

people.

The co""on gro!nd #etween the" is really the space #etween

where the H!nter and the Merchant had their friendship developand how they don't have to #e "!t!ally e9cl!sive at all.

So I8 for one8 wo!ld like to thank yo! for that. I've had a

tre"endo!s ti"e following yo! on this 6o!rney8 and hopef!lly I

haven't interr!pted yo! too "!ch #eca!se I always find it

fascinating when yo! weave in so "any different and disparatetopics into a si"ple idea.

%o#in5

id I even give yo! a chance to interr!pt Igor;

Igor5

I8 for one8 had plenty of ti"e and I have really en6oyed this so

thanks for doing this with !s8 %o#in

%o#in5

I think what's #een f!n a#o!t doing this has #een #eing a#le to

weave together so"e of "ore “left field” st!ff that I !se8 with







so"e of the "ore directly !sef!l tips and tricks that people need

to get started in 6!st going o!t there8 #eco"ing aware of the

stories that are aro!nd the"8 and #eginning to capt!re those.hen I coach people so"eti"es we !se so"e really weird and

wacky techni7!es8 I've gotta tell yo! so"e people have fo!nd

the"selves in a coaching session with "e going “&hhh8 oohh8

gghh8 why8 what;”

Igor5/y the way g!ys8 I can vo!ch for this "yself8 and its a

tre"endo!s e9perience. I "ean the st!ff that co"es o!t at the

other end8 I "ean8 “I had no idea that was in "e.”

%o#in5

There is a #ea!tif!l 7!ality to certain children's stories. I don'tknow if that's the kind of stories yo! want to create. Hypnotists

want to create fantastic8 engaging8 involving "etaphors that are

vivid and powerf!l for their clients. o! "ight 6!st want to tell a

story to entertain a friend8 or to "ake it easier to "eet so"eone

in a social sit!ation.

I've worked with people ... I've worked with senior directors of

co"panies like Shell and )roctor and :a"#leB and I worked

with a g!y who had a ,D "illion po!nd property and invest"ent

portfolio8 and the work I did with hi"8 it was essentially 6!st

so"e si"ple storytelling. I was teaching hi" how to present

fig!res and the concl!sions of those fig!res8 to a whole #!nch of







people. /!t o!t of that work he decided8 he fo!nd that he had a

calling. That calling was to develop social ho!sing.

He ended !p la!nching this whole progra" of social ho!sing.

There are #!ildings all over the J now which were #!ilt

#eca!se that g!y realised that he had so"ething i"portant that he

wasn't doing5 a story that he wanted to share8 and he connected

with the power to share that.

That's why I love8 I a#sol!tely love8 the chance that I have to

work with people8 #eca!se everyone is so intelligent8 capa#le.

Everyone co"es with this !ni7!e perspective and so"eti"es yo!

have the hono!r8 I have the hono!r to see so"eone #losso" and

change like that and do so"ething8 so"ething powerf!l in the

world that I co!ld never have done.

Igor5

This is e9citing #eca!se this is kind of where we're going. So to

those of yo! listening to this5 this has #een the first session.

%o#in8 yo!'ve #een very genero!s with how "!ch yo!'re going

to #e sharing with !s #eca!se while those of yo! "ay #e thinkingthis is the whole of the session for this "onths' “Interview with

the Masters.”8 it's 6!st the #eginning. So the story that yo!'ve

#een listening to for the last two ho!rs or so is 6!st to prepare yo!

to #e a great storyteller.







In the ne9t session %o#in's pro"ised to teach !s the perfor"ance

skills8 the perfor"ance secrets8 of a great storytellerB and he's

going to incl!de a little se7!ence I won't give away 6!st yetB #!the's going to create !s a conte9t in which yo! can find the perfect

place inside yo!r "ind to #e an instant perfor"er8 to #e a great

perfor"er of stories.

So instead of going8 I wish I co!ld tell this story #etter8 yo! get

to get o!t there and 6!st start sharing stories with the sa"e kindof e9cite"ent that yo!'ve heard %o#in !sing.

So that's so"ething that's waiting for !s in the ne9t session. I

really look forward to that. %o#in8 I really look forward to

speaking with yo! on that session as well. I think for now this is

a good point to pa!se8 to co"e to an end of the proceedingsB!nless there's so"ething yo! want to add8 so"ething we've

"issed8 o!t on so far;

%o#in5

(o8 6!st go o!t there8 get collecting stories. 4ind so"e ge"s and

start sharing with the" people8

Igor5

So8 %o#in8 what can I say; This has #een a fascinating 6o!rney. I

love the way yo! #lend realities5 fro" story to fact and fig!res8

to teaching8 #ack into story again.

© Copyright 2009. Robin Manuell http:hypnoticstorytelling.co! "age o$ 92






hen I look #ack on the whole e9perience we've had so far8 it

feels like I can't act!ally point at anything that I've learntB #!t

when I start thinking a#o!t the act!al ele"ents ... the idea oflistening8 finding insight in people8 #eing playf!l8 letting yo!r

i"agination r!n away with yo!8 letting stories carry yo! away to

the point yo! want to share the"5 having destinations in "ind8

the different types of stories8 the "ore advent!ro!s stories8 the

to!gher stories8 the gentler stories8 the ones yo! collect that are

"!ch "ore ed!cating5 the idea of how to get the story

interesting when things start going wrong ? and going wrong can

"ean so "any different levels of going wrong5 wrong in yo!r

story telling8 wrong in ter"s of what's going on in so"eone's life.

There is the idea of finding the tr!th in stories8 even when the

stories are "ade !p.

The traditions of stories that are #eyond 6!st telling stories8

there's written stories and so "any different places yo! can find

stories aro!nd !s in o!r daily life which we are ignorant ofB and

if we #eco"e "ore sensitised8 it 6!st #eco"es8 a nat!ral part of

what we do.

The e"otional range that yo! have in story telling is partic!larly

i"pressive and I look forward to yo! sharing so"e of those

secrets with !s in the ne9t session. &nd8 finally8 it's yo!r clear

passion a#o!t storytelling and how it transfor"s8 not 6!st the

a!dience8 #!t act!ally the storyteller hi"self.







This is so"ething which I think powerf!l in the work that yo!

doB and I've had the great pleas!re of working with yo! as a

presenter8 and learning yo!r tricks. o! so get changed as a person when yo! learn to #eco"e a #etter storyteller. &nd I

strongly enco!rage everyone to listen to %o#in's advice here. :o

o!t there and tell stories. Listen to his stories again. They will

change yo!B and yo!r telling stories to so"eone else will change

yo! even "ore. So %o#in8 thank yo! very "!ch for sharing yo!r

ti"e with !s so far.

%o#in5

Thank yo! Igor8 its #een a pleas!re again. I look forward to the

ne9t one and hey g!ys8 go o!t8 listen to stories8 go and get those

's o!t8 En6oy@

Igor5

>k8 and we look forward to seeing yo! in the ne9t session So this

is Streethypnosis.co" I'" here with "aster hypnotist %o#in

Man!ell fro" Hypnoticstorytelling.co"











& Master -lass in Hypnotic Storytelling

Listen to the whole series.

The )ower of -onversational Hypnosis.

iscover the Science of )ers!asion

© Copyright 2009. Robin Manuell http:hypnoticstorytelling.co! "age 9# o$ 92



















#li h d 1D*D i h

two travellers edited transcript

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