[ASSEMBLY.]

maa5' subjects, in fact almost any subject Ichose to bring up. I noticed in the Speech aproposal to appoint three railway .Coniinis-sioners. I should like thle Minister for Rail-ways to considecr the possibility of runningthe railways a little more rapidly than theyare being run at present.

Mr. 0 'Loghlen: They could not be muchworse.

Mr. BROWN: The slowness of our trainshas been a matter of public contment for yearspast. For a train to travel 60 miles in sixhours, as is the case on the South-Western line,is hardly tantamount to travelling at expressspeed. I hope the Minister will speed up therailways a little bit. I would Also0 point outthat the tram track throughout the city re-Juires serious attention. [t is mocre or lesslike anl ordinary spring board, and people whoride in the ears might quite well feel that theywvere riding on thle ocean wave. It is a dis-*omfort to most passengers. I hope that,lespite the financial troubles we are in, theseittle matters will receive the attention of thosi,ui charge. T ani now going to enumerate ainmber of subjects upon which I could speak,f I desired to do so. Tt seems to me that:very question under the sun can reasonablyRe discuissed in thle Address-in-reply withoutnterfeing with thle rules of debate. It mightRe wvell for the House to know that if I hadhle inlclinlation I' could speak upon these vani-uts matters.

.Mr. 0 'Loghlen: That is common knowledge.onl could talk for a week.Mr. 'BROWN: Sonme of. my constituents

now the subjects; that I like to speak upon.m iay be rather foolish of me to do what I

In conileiingti others for doing, but as Hafn-irdl' has not been troubled very much byhe, 1 am11 going to ask them to put down thleibjdects upon which I could speak. A sub-tet with. which 1 could deal at length is thatP health, hospitals and( asylumns. Other sub-?cts are cemeteries and cremation, harboursrid wharves, freezing and cantning works, sanii-ttien, septic tanks, sewerage and deep drain-ge, and an improved water sup ply for theietropolitan area , education, primary, second-ry, technical rind, university', fisherTies andghhooks. whale oil and shark's teeth, thetate implement work~s, State brickworks,tate timber mills and( powellising works, but-mr, bacon and hamn sandwiches, wheat, pota-incs, wumpkins anda bananas, rabbits,-ivermiin.,cpevil. wallabies, and white ants, prisons, badmUtilatioul andl conveniences for escape. These-e a few of the ninny subjects upon whichcould spend a good deal of timue. In view

the fact, however, that it would do very[tic good, and would waste the time of hon.emibers, besides occupying considerable space

''Hansa!rd,'' T will resist the temptationdo0 so. I trust that some members, who hare

L41 long years of experience in connection withie Addressin-r~ply and the forms of gay-nuieat, will consider seriously whether thene is not more than ripe for an alteration

our present Parliamentary system. AnyoneIto will introduce a measure to alter thei custom, uner which we have lived for soany years, an. alteration which in timesst may not have been permissible, but should

be permissible now, r will have very munchpleasuire in lending him mty support and en-couragemenlt.

On motion by Mr. Harrison debate ad-jouned.

House adjourned at 10.23 p.m.

Tlhursday, 12th September, 1918.

'fihe SPEAKER took the Chair at 11 a.m.,and 'read prayers.

[For ''Papers Presented'' see " Votes andproced igs.]

ADDRESS-TN-REPL-Y.

Ninth flay.Debate resumed] front the previous day.Mr. HARRISON (Avon) [11.6 a.m.]: One of

the earliest passages in the Governor's Speech,I observe, expresses gratitude to our soldiersand sailors for the solid defence they haveput uip in behalf of liberty and justice beingpreeserved to the free peoples of the universe.With other members, I desire to recordI theadmiiration felt for the gallant and stubborudefence put up by the Australian troops, andespecially by those front this State of West-ern Australia. Let ine add that our coil-gratulations are extended not only to our ownAustralian soldiers, but also to the troops ofBritaint and her Allies. Again, had it not beenfor the 'British navy we ini Australia wouldfind ourselves in a terrible plight. I do notknow that all of us realise the obligation we-are under to the stalwart defenders of thefreedonm of the seas, that command of theoceali which enables the most distant portionsof the British Empire to receive supplies andsend away products. It is surprising to readin the ''Statistical Abstract'' the volumne ofAustralian imports and exports which has con-tinned throughout the war. A crucial ques-tion for the whole Commionwcalth is the lackof shipping tonnage. Had we been able toliqu~idate our assets to the full, instead ofbeing dependent upon the British Governmentfor financial aid in the matter of our wool andwheat, we should have been able to realise thefull value of those commodities without ulti-mnately having to pay interest on advances.Had our Press tried to educate the people, wewould not hear so much complaining againstmembers of -Parliamient. It appears to toetha t the newspapers are not trying to upliftor uphold the standard of what we who areleft behind should do for those who have goneto-serve in our defence. The Press ought cot

[22 -SE]PTEMEU, 191S.1j9

to seek to belittle those who are giving theirservices in Australian Parliaments with, a viewto increasing the production of the variousStates andl meeting abnormal conditions. ThePress complains of the calibre of the menwho represent the Australian people undlerthese unprecedented conditions, who have tofeel their way so as to avoid mistakes, andwho are seeking to dto their best for the vari-ous States they repiresent., We hit Parliamentlook to Cabinet to remedy the ills of all. Iftwo years ago we had been united int ourefforts to lay aside everything in the natureof party and sectional interests, I refer to thetime when I brought forward the subject ofNational Government in this H~ouse, when it"as unpopular, the position wvouild have beenvery different to-day. At that time the news-papers did nothing to stimulate the Nationalmovement. .. t was only sonic months subse.jucintlv !i Mlay, after tlhe Federal election,wvhen the then Preiuier, the Hon. Fiank Wilson,bad returned froml Melbourne, that a move wasmade to create a National Government. Butthere was a lot of outside pressure in thatdirection. Throughout the Commonwealth thefeeling was that wye should cease to regard ourparteluilar vested interests and our particularpart3' views, and should combine for the coal-monl good. It was rather amusing to observein Mlonday's issue, I think it was, of the -clea-ing newvspaper of Western Australia, an ar-ticle instructing ,nembers of this Assemblywhat they should do now, We were told thatwe should, as it were, dissolve our party in-fluences and select a Cabinet from every por-tion of the House shlowing the requisiteability. How was it that the newspaper inquestion did not niake a forward move in thatdirection at the earlier period to which I havereferred, and then try to stiulate p~ublicthought and attention towards that end? In-stead of leading the way, the Press has to bepushed by public opinion. The leading jour-nsals of our State should lie, as the very phraseapplied to them implies, in the van, and notin the rear guard. It is their duty to leadpublic thought, and to encourage those whoare out with every endeavour to dto the bestpossible in the interests of the State and ofthe Commonwealth. It is indeed an easy at--ter, after the event~ to (Ind fault. When see-tious of the people are oppressed, it is theduty of the newsp~apers to see that such op.-p)ression is removed. We on our part, whenmatters are brought to our attention by theleading journals, are only too willing toremedy any evils which may exist. The lead-ing Journals of Western, Australia, and par--tienlarly the morning Press, are largely toblame for the feeling Prevalent throughout-Western Australia as to the assets of thecountry and its expenditure. They are re-sponsible for that feeling by reason of theirfailure to stimulate the people to furthereffort. Do we relis that we are at war to-dlay? What is the position in our populouscentres? Are we as frugal as we ought to be?Are we as saving as we should be against thereturn of relatives and friends from theFront? Are we trying to create assets witha view to meeting onr obligations In

the way of taxation and otherwise? itJ s ,the individual effort thxro~iglrout theStates of the Commonwealth that is goingto count. It is not a bit of use tedinarit of nmiensers of Panrliament at solutiorof the conommic problem. If the peopl(themnselves fail to do their part, it eainiot In

dlone for themj. We must become more selfreliant in every walk of life, whether it Inigriicultnral or industrial ism or anything elsePy depending onl our own individual effort,.we shall assist* not only ourselves but a]those with whom we come in contact. AsIstated here sonie years ago, we have to consider the three sections, industrialisnmcommiercialism, arid primary energy. Thecountry cannot develop if two of those seetions are obtaining an advantage at the expease of the other. It matters not which twiare advantaged, tile resuilt must be the sameff priar energy and commercial energy anbattening on industrial energy. that positior.cannot continue for say length of yearsNeither, can the position ho stable if industrial energy and commercial energy are battening on the energy of prinmary prodnctionin such conditions primary production wonthe stultified, and would gradually wane antiit was no longer able to bear the burden othe other two, which mnust live upon prinmarproduction. I say again, it is uip to thPress to educate the people to comibine,tpresent a unitedl front, and to do their best ithe interests of 'Western Australia and nthe Commonwealth. It is p~opullar to-dlaytblne the'- overnninent for any of 'onlfailures, and to credit our individual effoawvith our success. It is ti ..nc that wye studiecarefully how our success and our develo1mleat exist. We know perfectly well tbathe oibligation of the Governument of the daiq t0 advance tile whole; secondly, to restrthe balanoc when it is out of proportionand. thirdly, to give facilities for flevel

:pent. With regard to the first of these threnatters, it has been touched upon so far a

past paurty Governments are concerned. Ithe past, party government, when the relpr(sentrition has been for a section of the peeple-i. do not care whether we refer to Litcral Dr -to Labour administrations-haylooked After their political interests with thview of their constituents backing thenPthe next elseeItion, and they did not studytthle fll], as they should have dlone, their pbllsationk to the whole, of the people. H~encewas that artificial conditions were create(and this happened not only in Western Ai,tralia, but throughonit the Commonwealth. Whad built rip for the protection of conuneeialism a high tariff wall throughout; Austrihia. That high tariff wall was in the fir!instance largely established in Victoria,connection with the iron trade. There wfnot one article produced ini the eneinervishops that was not a tool of trade for seamt

*one within our own bonndlaries. There wfsplrecely any export of Aulstralian-made innfthinerv, and instead of it becoming an assis

iance it became a drag. Had it not been fethe high tariff wall, I feel satisfied that mi

-Would have had what they claimed they we

298 [ASSEMBLY.]

out for and that was the development of our ceeti that, another growth will develop andnatural industries. The manufacture of it will not be possible to resist it. If allwoollen goods in Australia should have been thle political interests were amalgamated wethe first of our natural industries, seeing that should derive sonme collective good and wein Australia we have the largest quantity and would reach our gaol in quicker time thanthe finest quality of wool in the world, and we would do by studying only the One see-our mnanufactured woollen goods should have tion, because it is impossible for the onebeen in open competition throughout the section to develop without the assistance ofworld. Tnstead of that, we find that the coin- the other.petition exists amongst wool buyers who Hon:. W, C. Angwin: Your party only con-come from all parts of the world for our raw eider one section, anyhow.material. If capital had been reserved for 11r. HARRISON: It is trute that Nationalthe muanufacturer-s to enable them to increa se development and wealth depend upon prim-their machinery purchases, instead of curtail- miry prod nctio-1 am not speaking parti-ing them, the woollen industry would have cularly of farming, or of pastoral pursuits,made greater advances than it has done. In- or of gold mining--: men each and all cot-stead, the raw material was permitted to go letvl.The development of these prim-out of the country and come back to us in the ary industries ]llnst of necessity carry withform of mnufactnred articles. The same it the development of others. By so doing wething applies to other lines. Take leather build up the whole fabric, and we shiall reachgoods; these should stand next in import- our goal of national wealth much quicker thananco to wool. Yet in Australia they are Of by striving for this portion and the otherthird rate, quality, and we find that hides and portion. If a worker is producing a valueskins. tannig bark and other raw material and is assisting to create ai higher value, heare exported. ,is doing good to all those around him.

Mr, Lutey: The best military boots are [lo.W C.Agicaed tenontmade in Australia. lo.W C.Agicaed tenont

Mr. Teesdalc:eDo you say that our inann- the state of the House; bells rung and afacturers ar-c third rate? quorumi formed. I

Isr. HAREISON: I say our leather goods Mr-1. HARRISON: If certain sections ofare. If I am wrong I am very glad to be our industrial and commercial life and alsoset right. No one would be more pleasedl pritaty energy are artificially stiniulateilthan myseit to realise that we were now at the expense of development, or one againstmanufacturing leather goods of superior the other, we are in danger of abusing ourquality -1. rmrnnl to those manufactured secondary power. Our Press wields a powerelsewhere. My' experience of the leather trade and it should do its shar-c in regard to thisis that while I was in Victoria if we wanted matter. The people of the various sectionsanything of superior quality in the way of must know where their obligations beginleather belting for driving machinery it was and end.- Still I thiuk if those outside re-impossible to get anything better than that alised their position we would hare less coi-which was mia nufactulred inl thle Old Counl- plaining and] more would be (lone. I nowtry. It is imossile to obtain the best come to my second question anld that is thlequality' of leatlm@j if von artificially stimulate restoration of the balamce when out of pro-the process of Effininimg. Tf yon do you des- portion. It is the duty of thme Government,trey the fibre of the skin from which vou are Y. take it, when mnatters of finance are out oftrying to create the leather. The capital out- proportion andl our various offices are notlay in the various tanning plants under the doing the business they were doing in formerold English method of tanning leather would times, and there is an excess of energy whichbe more than. our Australiani manufacturers is not being fully employed, to restore thecould stand. - With regard to flour milling balance by either dispensing with the ser-machinery, it would have been much better vices of the mien. or distributing the surplusfor Australia if we had been able to put the among other departments where they arecapital that went into the tariff into further needed. I am not out for drastic. retrench-reduction -plants for the purpose of develop- mueat, but I am out for getting the maximuming our flour output, and thus export flour value from those in the service. There areinstead of wheat, retaining the offal, which in the service men who could be better em-would have meant an increased production inl ployed than they are at present, mnen who areother directions. The political representa- not giving the maximum value I refer to,tives of industry caused another growth mnen who ought to be put on to other work.to develop, the growth of industrial With departments slack, this is the time'unionism, and they have been able to estab- when the best brains in the service shouldlish themiselves as a political entity, building be devising a better distribution of theuip a wall around them, namely the Arbi. officers. We have in the Mines Departmenttration Court and its awards. U nfortunattely men whose energy could be well used in die9-what has. been done is liable to be nullified covering umethods by which we Could utilise thethrough excess. It is quite right for these base metals to better advantage. We havemen as far as they are able, to amalgnmate in the railway service men who could setand do tho best they can for their indns- about giving uls better Paonmmnuni cation, andtries, but if excesses occur another unnatural we lm4e in the Lands Department unen whogrowth will take place. If thme men are could materially assist the Minister ini re-honest and give a return for the rewvard . gard to repatriation. We have other men inlthey receive, well and good, but if they ex- other departments who could bring about

112 SEPTEM&BE.R; 191S.1 299

better service in their respective branches.Another balance which is out of proportion,and which should be adjusted, is one whichlinks tip wvith our capital outlay in ad in inis-trration conmpared with the cotmmercial valueof that outlay. 'infliat matter I would likethe departni~intil headls to be stimulated toassist thle Minister by giiag their energy,and that energy should be reeogniled at its'couninierial valueI and we should not' con-'tinue to go on the system of, ciolunient§ forloug service. If we have mien of "supiriormnerit, they should be suitably rewiirddid.Another balance which is out of p~roportionhas been touched upon by Other members;'namnely that of our population. All throughthe Comnmonwealth we have too great a pro-portion of population in tile capital cites andWNertern Australia is no excep)tiont to thlerule. What is the reason for 'this rush to'the cities?9 The attractions of city life are muchgreater tha.n those to be found in rural dis-tricts. Still another and lmr6 importantreason is that ourl country life is not attrac-tire because 'lot prosperous. Make those en.gaged in the various primary industries pros-perous; and those industries will at once be-conmc attractive. ils there anything the Mimi1-istry can do in regard to inkinEr prinaryproduction nmore prosperous than it is? Ifso, it is their duty to do their best to restorethe lost' balance. L'et mie point to one or twothlings that will help to restore that balanlc.WVe are out of balance inl regard to finanee.'Thle ian in the street is msaying that we aregoing insolvent, that wve shall not be able tomeet our taxation. In looking through thle''Statistical Register" I find that thle increasein the number of horses durfing 1917 was8,356. 'rake those at the low value of £10per head and we get a ca1)ital valUe Of

£3,0.The increase in cattle (luring 1917was 9:,017. Take these at thle low value Of£:5 per head and we haove a Capital v-alues Of£465,085. The increase in sheep during thesame year numbered 868,210, which at. say,los. per bead represents a capital value of£E434,109. rigs increased by 21,088, which atlos. gives £10.544. Thle increase in goatsnulmbered 3,292, wichk at 10s. amounts to£1,646. Camels increased by 526. 1 (10 notknowirnlueh about the value of a camel but,putting them at M10 per head, we get £6,260.Then there are mules and donkeys, which haveincreased by 838.

lHon. AV. C. Angwin: More than that, surely.'Mr. HARRISON: Tn all we got an aggre-

gate total of £611,'421, an amount very nearlyequal to our annual deficit. Then we had theincrease in wool over the yea~r. Accordingr tothe Governor's Speech, we had .30 nillionpounds weight of wool this year, the increaseas against last year's value being Ii% mil-lions, floes not that teach the Governmentsomething? in wo -ol alone we have an in-crease for 1917 of~ 114~ million pounds. Fora long time past experts have declared thatwheat growing alone is not profitable.' thatwe nmust go in for mixed farning. 'The fig-uires I. heave j'ust quoted bring uts to thatpoint The p resent is the most Opportunetime we have ever known for the Govern-ment to carry into effect the advice of their

esxperts as -to' mixed- farm11:ng. We , expectto hjave a Surplus of sheep in the near future,and I suggest that'the Government ,take ad-vantage of that tind endeavour -to'- rendcerprosperous those farnii i thle whleat boltwhich, are 'not doing as wvell as they shouldI)e doing, and which, through thd. IndustriesAssistance:lBoard, have already cost bhe Statea goonideal (if money. On, such farnni.as haveirater' andl fgncing, the Goveranent shouldplace a nuecens of breeding elves. The mciii-be'- for N'ortham spoke of this the other night,hut T spoke of it more than 12 nlontlis ago.This is the mlost opliortune time' we haveknown for putting the suggestion into I rae-tice. I. feel sure that the ternis under whichthe sheep could be- obtained would admitof their beiug Paid -for by the increase inthe next season's wool. If so thke Governmentwould not be requited to findl any extra out-lay. One drawback lies in our present methodof- supplying water froril the goldfieldsscheme. I would like to remnd the Mlinisterfor Water Supply that wie have certain re-crnnendations from the Royal Commissiononl Agriculture. Here is a large volume ofecollated evidence. If this is to hle taken atits jiltrinsic value in regard to tile i uforina-tidn it contains, there is nothing the Admn.istration should do in respect of agricultnrcwithout first consulting the evidence to befound appended to this repoi-t. There archere several passages in regard to water supply to which I would draw attention. JrAppendix 9 we have this-

Wye find the rates charged for water areas follows:-(a) To settlers onl thle mairpipe line to Kalgoorlie a holding fee of £,5plus rates ranging front 4d. in most caseto 5(d. and 5'/.d. onl one extension, per acrefor all holdings within 1'/ ']'mies of th,main abutting thereon or situiated withii10 'chains of thle main at thle nearest pointTh''le wrater is charged to settlers at 2s. 6dper 1,000 gals. Settlers pay a meter ron'of 10s. per aluunl in addition.

The settlers onl the extensions would not ,able to get any more for their mutton or woothan those taking cheaper water. I1 maintajithat a readjustment should be nrwde in regareto the areas supplied by thle schenme. Thirating has been so high that most of the settiers use only* a portion of thle water tbwhich they are entitled. The report continutes-

The quantity of water which was available last year was 30,147.000 gals., of whiclonly' 12,926,000 gals. were used. The totsrates due to the department for the sam,period were £9,048.

The farmers who have extensions abuttinjon- their properties are charged a ceirtai,rate, which represents so high an amnount thathey hare not been able to consume the irateto which they are entitled. Neither are thein a position to carry stock. Still they are ratedThis rate furnishes One reason for the settlernot getting the requisite stock for thle corsuniption of the water.

Eion. W. C. Angwin: They could conetunthe water in i914.

Mr. HARRISON: They were not abletconsumne the water in, 1914 when there was

300 LASSEMBLY.]

drought. Even before that the settlers wereagitating to get water. When a man has nowater he will do almost anythiag in order toget it. At that particular period the farmerswere prepared to do almost anything to obviatethe necessity for carting water over long dis-tances. I admit that there has been a largecapital outlay in order to supply them with.that water. Against this I should like toremind members of what the Commission saysin regard to -South Australia on this point-

The first is the South Australian systemwhich provides reticulated water to agricul-tural areas almost regardless of cost, relyingon the indirect benefit to the community forits return. The Bundaleer and Beetalocschemes for instance, which cost over 'twomillions sterling, only return a gross revenueof 1.57 per cent, towards interest, sinkingfund, and depreciation. Another scheme,now authorised for the west coast at a costof £1,500,000, conteniplates a return of lessthan one-halt (10s.) per cent.

'f any indirect benefit is going to be obtained.rom the use of this water, instead of a rate)eing charged for 'water that is not consumedrould it not be better for the Government toeriously reconsider the position I The Coy-rumeut have opportunities at present for ob-aining sheep which they never had before. .1feclieve if the Government guaranteed theettlers they could obtain sheep writhout anyapital outlay, and the security offered by thebeep themselves would be a safe one. There'ould have to be certain regulations made torisuro that the sheep were p~roperly safe-unrded from dlogs, by the erection of yardsito which the sheep would he placed at nightme. This is the time when these mattersiould be gone into. The best that can pos-bly be d]one should be done for the develop-'eat of our latent riches. The member for[t, Magnet (Mr. Troy) bears me out when heLys that nothing will give so good a returnjto settle our returned men upon small pas-

Pral holdings, upon which they would runieep. The lion, member is quite correct inhat he says, and what I advocate is alsoirreet. If sheep are procurable they shouldso be given to those settlers oa the wheat,It to assist them in getting returns frontMer farming operations. The Governmentuat bestir themselves at once in regard tool storage, refrigerating plants, and so forth.'are going to have a big surplus of mutton,

id if those large sources of production ine shape of food are not put to their Lull'e we shall not be able to derive all the[vantage from them that we should. You,z, will know from your past experience ofeep that when sheep are fat, and show aaximumt in carcase weight, unless they arearlceted at the right moment there is bound

be a loss in weight at the very first changeseason. In such circumstances the State

)uld be losing on this valuable asset. With'.t cool storage facilities for holding the car-sea it would be impossible to get anythingts the maximum value thus created. It shouldISpossible to accommodate a very large pro-rtion of these caresses in cool storage works.*the evidence of the experts, as containedthe report of this Commission, is correct,

that for the expenditure of £2,000 the Albanycool stores could be rendered capable of accom-nodating these earcases, it would boe money

well spent. All matters of" this description.should be attended to promptly, and the capitaloutlay that will secure our assets in the wayI have described should be made at once.Money is being spent to preserve our wheat,and it should be spent for the purpose of pre-serving our meat. These assets should not beallowed to waste away on account of badseasons, and if it is desired] to get the mnxi-mnum value of them, then that maximum valueshould be taken care of. fin my electorate thereis a certain mining centre that I wish to bringunder the notice of hon. members. It is a newfield, and has had to contend with variousdifficulties in the matter of flood water. TheGovernment should do something at once toencourage the further development of thatfield. There is no industry in the State thatwill respoiid more quickly to assistance thanthe gol mining industry. I understand thatin the ease of one mine alone, which has notonly made no return to its shareholders butbuos nmade calls, Sn income tax of over £400had to be paid last year. In addition to this,the mine has had to contend with the iiicrensedcost of working. which is much higher than itwas before. Efforts have been made to obtaina reduction in the price of water there, and.I trust the MHinister in charge of the depart-mnent concerned will cnrel'ull y go into the pro-position which has been placed before himfrom that particular centre. Certain faceilitieshave been given already. This is the time whenour experts shoutl be encouiiged to do whatthey can for the good of Western Australia,and I trust that the Government will do some-thing in the near future in that direction.

Mr, GREEN\ (Kalgoorlie) [11.52 a.inj: I. re-cognise that the debate on the Address-int-replyis drawing to a close, bult I feel I should not letthle occasion pass without outlining what I be-lieve to be those matters which are in the bestinterests- of my own particular district, and inthe general interests of the State. We havelied financial saviours who have offered theirservices to the Government in all parts of theState, at street -corners, in the newspaper col-umns, and in this Chamber. I think that theposition of the finances of this State is not somuch due to the war, because we find thattwo of our main industries, those connectedwith wool and wheat, are bringing in greaterreturns than was ever the ease before.

Mr. Please: When we get them.Mr. ORE EN: The hon. member and his con-

stituents have received a higher price for theirproducts than they have ever done before inthe history of the State, and they have had be-hind them the very finest security obtainable,namely, that of the State.

M1%r. Piesse: We hove not got them yet.Hon. P. Collier: You have got them.Mr. GREEN: They have had them continu-

ally just as soon as they were due. In myopinion the dccudenee of the gold mining in-dustry has really more to do with our presentparlous financial position than any other mat.ter that we may bring forward. In 1903 therewere no less than 16,000 men engaged in the

300

[12 SEPTEMBER, 1918.] 0

gold mining industry in Western Australia,having an annual wage of 3% millions. To-day the average wage per annum of the 8,000employees now engaged in the industry is some-where about half that amount, for it is only£1,660,000. In 15 year;, therefore, the wagesfrom this industry-thet is the main benefitthat the State derives from it, because manyof the mines ar-c held from outside the State-have fallen away to the extent of two millionpounds per annum, because of the decline inthis rent industry. Up till quite recently thisindustry has been responsible for the value ofover half the exports of the State. Anyone wholike myself has lived for some 23 years on thegolddields, and been fairly well. acquainted withthat area upon which gold mining has beenconducted, cannot but have a feeling of sorrowand depression when travelling through thosecentres whose names were familiar to everyonein the roaring nineties, and which have playedno small part in adding to the gold productionwhich has been derived from the State. ManyOf those places immediately to the north ofKalgoorlie are nowv nothing muore titan a name.Trav-cfling through on the railway past Kooky.ale and Niagara and even Menzies, which placesat one tiune were the scenes of much pros-perity and industry, one can now see that theyare only relics of bygone days. The scene asviewed from the railway makes one think ofthose pictures of villages on the western frontof France showing how they have been de-vastated by artillery. These places are nownothing more than ruins. It is our duty, ifwre can do so, to suggest methods whereby thisgreat industry may be helped. I frankly ad-mit that the position, so far as this industryis concerned, offers one of the greatest prob-leums which can Confront any Minister if hiesets about affording any relief and sustenanceto those engaged in it. There are certainmuethods which may be in thle minds of differentlion. members according to their point of view,which may be of particiular assistance to thisindustry. The richest Centre in Western Aus-tralia is known as the Golden Mile, and issituated immediately east of the city of Boul-der. It is -recognised to be the richest goldmining strip in the world, and in that areaexists one of the greatest mines in theworld, 'whose supremacy as a gold pro-ducer is unchallenged. I refer to theGreat Boulder mine, which to-day is workingat a cost of the value of only half of whatit actually produces, even in these bad times.Immediately north of that Centre there is whatis known as the North End For years pastindications have been found showing that itis possible that this part of the field may beworked at a profit. Famous geologists whohave been brought into Western Australia andhave given their opinion upon the strata andthe likelihood of gold being discovered in thislocality, have advocated that there should bedeep boring at this North End. It has beenimpossible for the small men, who bold mostof these shows at the North End, to takeadvantage of this advice. If the Governmentare anxious to assist the gold-mining industrytheir obvious duty, so far as this Centre is

concerned, is to put down deep bores in orderto prove the field. They might well go toan expenditure of £5,000, which is the amountfurnished by them to assist in the embarkationof the jam industry quite recently. This isnot a large amount for the assistance of an in-dustry which has made Western Australia. Anexpenditure of this sort would set at rest thequestion of whether the rich formation, whichhas been developed so wonderfully on theGolden Mile, is also to be found at the NorthEnd, which is only about a mile and a halffront the Golden Mile itself.

Mr. Teesdale: Has there been none done?Mr. GREEN. There has been no deep

boring as far as this particular portion of thefield is concerned. It is not a new proposal;it has been hammered at in season and out ofseason. Some mnethod should be adopted toprove of good use and give a return for themoney invested.

Mr. Teesdale: It is aot a big amount youask for.

Mr. GREEN: I stress the point becausethe shows are held by small men. There isgold everywhere there of a low grade char-acter,' and it is believed by many men whoseword is considered of value that if deep boringwas instituted something equivalent to thatdiscovered on the Golden Mile might be un-earthed. We find that not only has the goldwilning industry not been especially assistedas to grants, I admit in several directions asfar as assisting prospectors is concerned somehelp has been given, but no seriop' s attentionhas been given by any Government in thisdirection on the fields in the Golden Mile.Private parties have sunk shafts under theidea. that a deep lead must exist in Salgoorliethle same as existed at Kanowna, but boringhas never been seriously taken in hand by thisor any Government, and it is a method thatmay be adopted to assist the industry. I ask,"Are we going to stand with folded arms,adopting Eastern fatalism while the greatestindustry in Western Australia in the greatestgoldield in the world sinks iato decadeacy?"We seem to lack the courage of our Anglo.Saxon forbears, men who were prepared to goand develop the country. I am reminded thatthe Celts have done their part in the pioneer-ing of Western Australia.

Mr. Lutey: Especially the Cornishmen.Mr. GREEN: And the Coraish side of the

Celt. The Government in common with prev-ious Governments have adopted a metbod indealing with gold mining around the goldfieldsthat has not been the means of assisting theindustry, but artificial means have beenadopted which has decreased the gold output;I refer to the embargo in regard to the use ofsalt water. The position the Mines Departmenthave taken up is this: the Water Departmenthave a business undertaking which has to bemade to square the ledger, and if the salt waterwas used freely in the mines--and there is anyamount of it there-the water scheme wouldcease to produce the revenue that it producesat present, which, unfortunately, is not largeenough. However, it is at this stage that theMines Department might see their way clearto induce the Water Department to assist so

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that flhe natural suppily of salt wvater in thesecentres might be made the fullest use of to de-velop the industry. Gold is in a different posi-tion from any other product. It has been said,until it has become a platitude, that gold doesnot increase in value like wheat, wool, and allother Products that go to make up the primaryindustries of a State, but this fact reiaims,the British Government, and the big firstpowers of the world, have long ago seen fit todeclare that the currency must be of a goldbearing standard, and since Britain insists onthat, there has been a discussion by many' ofthe foremoest financiers of the world interestedin geld mining. Seeing that gold mining doesnot pay in the aggregate anywhere, in anycountry where the gold is produced, it is theduty of the British Government and othercountries to assist iii raising the price of gold,if need be by nmeans of a bonus on everypound of gold produced. I recognise that atthe present time the proposal is in a nebulousstate, hut wvhen I point to the fact that in nogold bearing country in the world has goldmining paid, it seenms to me in the greatestgodmiining country in the world, taking itspopulation as a basis, it would be of immenserelief if the British Government were pre-vailed upon to assist the industry, seeing thatgold is necessary for their currency. A methodwas spoken of by the member for Menzies(Mr. Mulinny) which was to secure cheapersupplies. That lproposal I heartily endorse. Itseems to me whatever opinion we nmay have ofprofiteering, that in this State whose future isso closely interwoven with the goidmining in-dustry, and whose present position is causedbecause of the stagnation in that industry, wemight insist, as a body, in seeing that somemethod, by co-operation of the Governmentsinterested, might be employed so that the sup-plies should be given to the mlines at the ratethat obtained before the war. Alrendy thegeldnining industry onl the Golden Mile isworking with a shortage of labour for thatparticular class known as "(bogging" It isusually taken up by young, hefty non who areprepared to take on any work that comes withtie idea of learning tlhe trade later on. Andlbefore the Eastern goldfields gave their 6,00.0.sturdy men for the Front there was a fairsupply. not anl over generous supply, in thisdirection because it is the lowest paid andhardest work in the industry. Since these menhave gone to thle Front the oldest miners nat-urally dlodge the laborious work. Seeing thegoldmning industry is suffering because ofthe patriotic response that has been made forthe war, and it bris heen insisted that gold isa neeessary article with which to pursue the*war,tile least we might ask is simply that step sbe taken by connmmnting with the FederalGovernment. and through the Federal Govern-,ment with the Homie authorities, to see thnt thediffere,,t sunlies necessary for the industryshould he obtained at pre-war prices. Unfor-tunately these supplies which are necessary forthe production of gold ale being kept for thepurposes of the war, hut T an satisfied that ifthe channel of industry could be subverted tosomne extent to see that the full requirenmentsof the goldniining induitry throughout theEmpire was sapplied it the rate which ob-

tained before the war, wvhich alndunts to over'4s. a ton at'the present time, it would do agreat denl indleedl to resuscitate this great in-dlustry of ours.

Mr. Tto v: Whrlat about throwing out theProfiteers?.. \r. GREEN: It would automatically doAway with the profiteers. We are fortunatein. this State in having the largest area inthe world of an -auriferous beariiig nature,and any 'nan would be a spineless individualindeed and very pessimistic even with thedark outlook ahead of us, who would say weare likely to decrease and become less iin-portant so long as this great area of countryis still unopened. It is true, help might begiven freely to the prospector, and I admitin thle past there have been generous me-thods adopted in sending out prospectors. Thereturned soldiers have claims for support inthis direction, and there have been A14 sentout to prospect. From my point of view thatis tile direction that has Only been partlyexploited as far as thle Possibilities that maygive reward in that direction of effort isconcerned. I submit that nothing too gener-Ouis can be dlone in this direction. The posi-tion is one entirely of finance. At the sametime if ever there was an industry in whicha sprat should be given to catch a mackerel,it is the gold-mining industrY. When weconsider that north of Kalgoorlie there arehundreds of miles of railway road run un-profitably. the only way to help the countryand those lines of railway service is to re-establish mining centres, if not in the oldspots, to successfully prospect, if wve may,the country within reasonable distance of theline. It should he the Government policy tospend thousands of pounds in this direction.Even to-day there are being, from time totinme, new shlows opened up. Most of theshows turn eventually to low-grade proposi-tions, but there are possibilities of other Kal-goorlics and Boulder mines being found inthe State hundreds of times over, not alonethat we shall live to see, but our children andour children's children. It is necessary topoint to the fact that in the Cave Reeks dis-trict, 30 miles from Boulder, there was adiscovery some months ago. At the time,it raised high hopes. Unfortunaitely, the fieldis not proving as rich as orleinallv it wastholiuilt to be. still, a recent repon't by anmining inspector wile visited the centre givesthe- assurance that on Present appearancesthe shows al-c payable. Hot foot upon thatdiscovery' has come the discovery along theKurrawaing wvood line, seone 70 or 80 miles outof Kalgoorlie. If we can believe the reportsheard at street corners in Boulder-where thepeople are more optimistic in their phrase-ology than, are thle people of Kalgoorlie-that field has the outlook of a Midas.

Hon. P. Collier: What does John Boileauthink?

.Mr. GREEN: 'Mr. B3oileaii's opinion dlossnot count in Kalgoorlie, where lue is renownedonly for his. statue. His political opinions. un:fortunately, are all wrong. T quote the re-cent Kurra~ang discoveries only to show thatat any time we may expect in this State a

(12 SUPTEXEER, 1918.] 3

discovery which will be of lasting benefit,which will do a great deal to restore the gold-mining industry, if not to the palmy days of1903, at least to a series of years showingincreasing returns of gold, in place of thepresent monotonously recurrent drop in goldproduction. Recently I had occasion to visita district which just previously had beenhonoured by an inspectiou from tile Premierand the Minister for Mines-the Northamp-ton lead district. I inspected particularlythe new discoveries made in Geraldine, onthe bainks of the Murchison river; perhapsI should call them re-discoveries as theywere worked in the early fifties of last eti-.tary. It is a good illustration of the un-certainty of the minling industry that amine, whilst for the time being itappears to go down, nevertheless Jawaysoffers opportuit ties. It is on tisaccount that gold mining and otherminzing have special attractions not affordedby any other form of industry. In muining,there is always the chancee of the prospectorssecuring a big prize. For example, tie Surpriseamine . nine miles north of Ajana, on the M.ur-clhison river, has been opened to 30 feet deep,It was indeed, as its name implies, a surprise.The party have driven 250 feet altogether, andthe lode is from about nine feet wide. I donot profess to be a lead miner, but to mie itseems that the view along the whole of thedrive was as though the drive were through a.solid mass of metal, through galena, which isthe lead ore.

Mr. Willcoek: It is just like a jeweller'sshop-

Mr. GREEN: Yes.Won. P. Collier: There is no lend in jewel-

lers' shops.Mr. GREEN: There is more leadI in the

composition of the wares sold by jewellers thanthe leader of the Opposition seems to imagine.At the 60 foot level the party working theSurprise maine have also driven for a consider-able distance, and] the lode there appears to beif possible rni're nietalliferous than that shownat a higher level. A winze has been sunk atthis level into the ore, and although sunk toa depth of only a few feet it reveals the sameclass of ore as appears above. There is alsoat Geraldine on the site of the old settlement,where some hundreds of men were employed inthe early fifties under Captain Mitchell andothers, and where the old buildings still standas a relic of former days, a fairly rich show.The great trouble to be coped with there is awater difficulty, the show being situated onthe banks of the river. Indeed, the originalmine was sunk actually in the bed of the river,and it had to lie practically abandoned becauseof the water difficulty. - This lead district,however, suffers under certain disabilities.While perhaps it may be claimed that as onewho has no special interest in the district,and does not represent the district, I hare noparticular right to speak for the lead: miningindustry, still, being in some measure acquaintedwith the sister industry of gold mining, I con-sider that I am merely doing my jiuty in usingmy utmost efforts to help what, if pre ,sent_prospeeis8 truly indicate the state of affairs.is destined, as people onl the -ground say-, to be

a second Broken Hill. One of the disabilitiof the district is the cartage, which costs 176d. to £1 per ton from the bank of the rivto the head of the railway line at AjanWhilst I am an ardent supporter of the Espeanee railway, and whilst the present Covermeat have premised that that line shall 1the first railway construction work to be ndetaken by Western Australia-that has be(given us as a matter of good faith-

Mr. IMvaley: But only to be the first of tIlines of railway already authorised.

Mr. GREEN:- Yes. I am prepared to sithat in my opinion, if present prospects:tile Geraldine lead district are -maintainea railway to serve that field should be tIfirst to be undertaken in this State. I ha,national spirit enoughl to say that, and neI have said it plainly. There are other difcuities with which the field has to contend. -Geraldine proper, in the show to which I ha'particularly referred, the show on the site,the old town, there is mining onl private prperty. We have had in this State people wiadvocated that in order to push the gold alliug industry, gold rmining leases should 1abolished anda private property in the preseleases established. Those people have point'to the United States of America as an iltvnration in favour of what they advocate.say to those people who doubt the wrisdomnthe leasehold system for gold mining and othmining, Jet them go to Geraldine and obserthe effect of private property in mineral cootry. The particular area to which I referowned indirectly by a member of auothChamber; and tile extortionate--no other terican be applied-extortionate royalty exactfor the use of a property which the gentlemihimself has left untouched for the lastyears, knowing though he did that the propercould be made lead producing, proves, at leato me, that the idea of acquiring wealth stan.out lm ore prominently in the mind of thgentlemtanl than does the idea of developlithis great State.

'Mr. Lutey: He is a wint-the-war.Mr. Maley: Do you know -what the royal-

is?Mr. GREEN: I have a note of it, and

tend to write the suibject up later. Anoth'disability tinder which this district laboursthe want of a smelter in the near vicinitAt present the whole of the concentrates haito be shipped to Frenmantle.

Mr. Willeock: The whole of the ore; a'only the concentrates.

Mr. GREEN: Unfortunately for the 1emining industry, the Premantle Smelting Worlhave not the amost modernly equipped app]ances. It is freely admitted, not by the prprietors of the works, but by responsible oilleers of our Mines Department, that the Frmantle smelters are utterly out of date. MMontgomery tells us that to erect a smeltiat Geraldton would cost at least ;212,000.

Mr. Mxaley: You are merely anticipating arnotice 6f motion, I wish to point out.

Mr, GREEN: I shall be highly pleasedsupport the lion. member, when he has movihis motion, in terms much more ardent thzthose I amn now 'employing. I may say I nreserving mysdlf for that occasion. The Fi

[ASSEMBLt] 2:

mantle Smelting. Works. represent a mnat-.ter wich concerns the member for Ocr-nldtoun (MX1r. Willeock) as much as themember for Greenough (Mr. Maley) and prob-ably they will join forces in this connection.As indicated by recent replies to questionsin this Chamber, the Fremantle Smelting Workshave, since they were first granted a Govern-mnent guarantee, by the Labour Govoranent,of their bank overdraft, raised their charges9fronm £4 per ton to £6.

The Minister for Mines. Their chbargesarc now not higher than the charges in anyother part of Australia.

Mr. GREEN: I ant not too sure of that.'The -Minister for Mines, of course, ought tobe in a better position than any other inm-bee of this House to express an opinion; andI must accept his statement. But as regardsthe two other great smelting works in Aus-tralia, I am told by one of the Minister'sofficers that at present their proprietors mustbe making imense fortunes out of thesmelting of lead. If the ]Fremantle Trading.Company find it impossible, with thcoirsmelters, to smelt lead at a cheaper rntethan £6 per ton, having done it for a con-siderable time at £4-

Mr. Maley: The charge is more than £6;£6 is the basis.

Mr. GREEN: I am coming to that. Ifat £E6 per ton thcey are not making a largeamount of money, seeing that admittedlythey were making a do of it at £4 perton-

The Minister for'Mines: Who has admit-ted that? No one has admitted that theywere making money at £4.

Mr. GREEN: They were making a do ofit, I said. What I want to get at is this.if with an obsolete plant the FremantleSmelting WVorks are making only a fairthing at £6 per ton, why should the Govern-ment not instil a modern plant at Geraldton,Where smelting at £4 per ton, as against £E6per too, would mean big remuneration to theState whilst at the same time assisting theindustry?

Hon. P. Collier: In any case, £12,000is not a great deal of money to establish theindustry,

Mr. GREEN: No. This House never hiesi-tates to pay for 8uch a purpose.

Hon. P. Collier. The Government gave£-5,000 to a jam factory.

- M. REEN: The House never hesitatesto pay unsophisticated farmers, or rathermen who know aothing about the farmingindustry, 9s. a day for learning the trade.That rate is paid even to farmers who havenever been on the land before. In view ofour generous and -unquestioning attitude to--wards the wheat industry-which at thislate~ hour we are told cannot pay withoutmixed farming-the fullest generosity shouldbe extended by the House to an industrystanding on its own basis and merely askingfor a fair crack of the whip and fair play.Nothing' short of Smelting works at Gerald-ton-that-is, provided the lodes are- likely, lbcontinbe-should satisfy Parliament as ade-

quate dissistancc to the lead industry. I havehere an invoice, or a statement, furnished bythe Fremnantle Trading Company to one ofthe parties engaged in lend mining'along thebanks of the Afurchison river; and let ineadd, in passing, that there are at least 15 or20 shows iii that district which are on good'lead besides those stows which I have par-titularly mentioned. The party I refer tohave received from the general manager ofthe Fremantle Trading company. a statemtentshowing the London Mfetal Exchange dednic-tions. Those deductions, which are at perton, comprise the following items:-

21/1 discount 1s.; 12 lbs. draughtage,3s. 3d.; weighing, UQ.; 14 days interest at5 per cent., Is. 24.; insurance, 11s.; total,£,1 ]Is. 2d,

The amount of £1 1s. 2d. for a start issaddled on every ton of ore that is shippedto Fremantle. That is the arrangement withthe London Metal Exchange, probably madeby that living wonder, Billy Ifughes.

The. Minister fur Works: Who is thatgentlemanf

Mr. GREEN: There is a William Hughes-whom we must niot confuse with WilliamMorris Hughes-now engaged in mining agood shtow niorth of the Mfurchison river. Hiehas no connection whatever, and is anxiousto mnake the fact clear, with the notoriousBilly Hughes, who has set this country bythe ears and who is at present ini the OldCountry where I hope hie will always re-main. As I was saying, there is £1 Ji s. 2d.dieduected fromn every ton by the LondonMfetal Exchange. These invoices or state-ments which I hiave would puazle even aPhiladelphian lawyer if he attempted to un-ravel them. 1 have spent a good deal of timeover themn. There were S tons l9cwt. anti afew odd pounds sent to Fremantle. Thatquantity was reduced to -5,084 tons andsmelted. The price paid wats R30, theamiount of deduction -was £l11Xs. 2d. in ac-cordance with Mr. Billy Hughes' scheme, andin addition there were other charges. Therewas 80 per cent. advance on the £106 Is. 5d.,the amount secured as a return being £8417s. 2d. The freight on the railways was£7 10s., which amounted to 16s. a ton. Thatis not a heavy charge. There was 2s. 6d.for bags and another lot of bags suppliedon the 23rd came to £l13us. fad. Therewas a still further lot of bags sup-plied and the total. was £10. Thatwas not the end of it; they also arrangeda few more changes. Here is a more detailedstatement which shows that this companycharges £6 per ton for smelting for all ore70 per cent, and over. On ever 'y unit, orfraction of unit, that the ore goes below 70pet cent., is. per unit is charged on the costof smelting, but by an obverse\ rule, if wesenid along bne worth 80 per cent., thereshould be a reduction in the smelting chdrges.This even-handed sort of justice, however,does not 'appear to appeal to the FrernantleTrading Co. 'What they cannot get on themerry -go-roumnd they get on the swing boat.Thi the particular instance under review theybring in the assay value as OO90,'that is, a%

[12 SEPTEMBER, 191S.] 805

-tenth of a unit under the 70, and for thatone-tenth they conveniently charge is. perton for smielting. There is also another corn-plait to make with regard to the FremnantleSmelting Co., and it is that they take nonotice whatever of the railway weights whensupplying the prospector with the weight ofthe ore they receive.

The 'Minister for Mfines: Would you expectthem to?

Mr. GREEN: 1. should say there should be-a check.

The -Minister for Mines: They have theirtmn there to check the ore when it is beingweighed.

MJr. GREEN: If that is so I ain pleased tohear it.

The M3inister for Mines: The balances havebeen shown to the member for Geraldton andthe member for Greenough; they know.

Mr. GREEN: The mniners uip there did notseenm to know that when they mentioned thismatter to me as one of their complaints. Infact, they were very sore shoot it.

The Minister for Mines: They have theirrepresentative there.

Mr. GREEN: I an, pleased to hear that;I will imake further inquiries about it.

Mr. Maley: You said they were very sore;that is not so. The prospectors are very wellsatisfied with the treatment they hiave beenreceiving, except so far as the charges areconcerned.

Mr. GREEN: The lion. membher was therewith a Ministerial party, no doubt dispensingwine. I got my information from hardy pros-pectors. I met several of them and they madethis a matter of complaint, and I took aspecial note of it. To go back to my figures.There is a balance, therefore, out of some-thing for which they should receive £106,but by the time the Premantle Trading Co.have done with it, the amount is considerablyreduced. FreightI bags, and interest amountto £11 17s. IId. on at small parcel of abouteight tons. 'With the London Metal Ex-change deduction, the smnelting amounts tof20 Us9. ld., and altogether the chargeswade are such that unless a Governmentsmelter is established, the low grade showswvill stand no chance at all.

Mr. Maley: They are high grade shows atGeraldine.

Mr. GREEN: Not all. Does the lion. renn-ber mecan that no smelter is required uipthere, and that the Frenmantle Smelting Co.shonld be able to exploit the prospector asthey have done in the past? A lot. of theshows there are not being worked and thedistrict could be materially assisted, andgiven a greater lease of life, if the Govern-meet erected a smelter there. They cannotpossibly be expected to pay their wa -y unless-there are cheaper charges for smelting. Of-course it is possible for a mine like the Sur-prise to pay, but what we have to do is toassist the shows which are not as rich asthe Surprise. I cannot close my remarkswithiout making sonmc reference to the amountof industrial disease which is manifesting it-self on the Golden Mile. I am not alwaysin accord with the Kalgoorlie Council andIhe conference of local bodies when they

[1 21

dleal with subjects of local inter-est, becausethere are some gentlemen who are membersof those bodies who are not always temperatein their language, and whose knowledge isnot always as sound as that which we mightexpect fromt members of Parliament such asourselves, It is always our duty to weighany remarks which may be made in any dis-trict with, the view of discovering what sub-stratum of truth there may be in thenm. Acomplaint has been made with regard toW0070l00 Sanatorium as being the one placewvhich should be retained for treating thelung disease which is robbing the Golden Mileof its young manhood. I know that a largenumber of the miners themselves would farsooner go anywhere than to Wooroloo to betreated. They perfectly detest the idea ofgoing there, I o not say that the sanator-mii should be closed down, because it is one-of the miost modern buildings of its kindin the world, but men who are accustomedto the sunshine of the goldfields will not goto Wooroloo where for seven months of thmeyear the sky is overcast and the effect is de-pressing on the patient. So munch is that sothat it has a reflex action on the condition ofthe sufferer, and that has been proved by themortality amongst goldfields miners who haveentered the Wouroloo Sanatorium. There arevery few miners who are discharged perman-ently, or even temporarily cured.

Mr. Harrison: Is not that largely due tothme fact that patients are sent to the inmstitu-tiomn when they are beyond all aid?

Mr. GREEN: Our experience of Coolgardiewas that the patients there lived for a longperiod, while a great number of theta leftthe institution. I asked certain questionsrecently with regard to the mortality atWooi-oloo, and Coolgardie, and the Premier,unjustly I think, asked mne to put my' questionsin the form of a notice of motion for a re-turn, and as such it appears on the NoticePaper. Wb know enough of the procedureof this House to lead mis to believe that theinformation which I seek will never be sup-plied. Unless there is something to hide withregard to the position at Wooroloo, the Pre-mnier should be frank and not deny the Housethe information which we are entitled to have.I anm in aecord with the agitation on the gold-fields that sonic of the congestion existing atWoorolno should be relieved by semiding gold-fields patients to Coolgardie. A small canipcould be established there at slight expense.No costly buildings would he required, for weknow that tents are as good as more sub-stantial buildings for the treatment of eon-suniption. With a medical officer in attend-ance the results would be far more satisfactoryin the eaue of young fellows who have con-tractedi the disease on the umines end who donot like the idea of going to Wooroloo.

Mr. Teesdhale: It is a pity that was not dis-covered before so much money was put intothe sanatorium at Wooroloo.

Mr. GREEN: It must be remembered thatGoolgardie dlid not suit the requirements of thewhole of the State. Coolgardie is far re-moved from the metropolitan area. and manyof the consumptive patients in the mnetropolitanarea do not like the climate of the goldfields.

[AS8SEMBLY. J

To such patients their inearceration in Wooro-loo would not have the baneful effect upontheir mental condition which is experienced byyoung pica from the goldfields.

Hon. W. C. Angwiu :The question' ofwhether the people of the coastal districtsliked or disliked going to Coolgardie had no-thing to do with the establishment of thesanatorium at Woorotoo,

Mr. GREEN: There has always been amarked difference of opinion respecting thesite at Woorotoo. The men of thegoldields do not like going to Woor-oloo. They dislike the fogy conditionsthere to be found, conditions to whichthey are not accustomed. To leave a somewhatdreary subject, let me say that in commonwith other members on this aide I disagreewith the idea of the appointment of threecommissioners for the railways. Our railwayswill never pay until we get closer settlementalong existing lines, and the only way to bringthat about is, by imposing a tax on unimprovedvalues. This will not hurt the farmers, butwilt have the direct effect of encouragingcloser settlement along the existing lines, and,we shall not then be iii the unenviable positionof having 91 people for every mile of railway,against the Eastern States' average of 296.

Mr. NAIRN (Swan) [12.48 p.m.]: In theopening paragraph of His Excellency'Is SpeechWere someO words which expressed the feelingsof His Excellency townards us, and I think wearc justified ill reciprocating those words. HisExcellency said-

During the first few months of the presentyear our Empire and its -faithful Alliespassed through dark days of bitter adversityand deep anxiety.

We' should nt forget thie trials through whichthis Empire, and we as lpart of it, have pass'edduring the present year. There is anotherasp~ect of it, for the Speech continues-

During the past few weeks changes haveconmc more momentous than. any that hadpreviously been recorded during the fourlong years of war.

Had there not been justification for thosewords I am inclined to think that the attain-mnent of many of our objects would have beendefinitely held in abeyance. 1I san sure I amexpressing the sentiments of alt members whenI say thlat for the first time one can clearlysee sonmc ray of hope ahead, hope that thisterrible conflict will soon cease and that weshall then be able to make definite. attemptsto restore our shattered fortunes, while thehabits of the people return to normal, I rea-lise the tremendous difficulties of all men hold-ing responsible positions at the present time,and so any remarks I mnay make will not beof hypercritical character. However welt itmay serve party purposes to attack and at-tempt to politically destroy the other side,these attacks can have no useful purpose atthe present juncture. Much as we desire to

segreater energies displayed in all public ac-tivities, we fully realise the tremendous bur-den. being carried and the resistance opposedto any progress at present. On the questionof finsance it is not my intention to make anylengthy remarks. We have been well catechise]

as to the unfortunate financial position of the-StateI but I am safe in saying that in mostother respects the people of this State, andideed of Aiwstralin, have reason to be in-.

tensel Iy grateful. Notwithstanding Onlrfinancial position, we are liring to-day tinderhappier conditions thaft perhaps any otherpeople in the world. We must not indulge inIludue complaining because we find that incommon with most other people our financesutre not quite as we would like them.

[The Speaker resumed the Chair.]

Honl. W. C. Angwin: Is that the reasonwhy we are all happy here?

Mr. NAIRN: I do not know what hap-piness the hion. member infty enjoy, but sofar as I can see it is not very much,, because-hie always has the same sadI complainingexpression on his face. What I hare saiddoes not in any way relieve the Governmentof their obligations to the people; to use ailltheir energies in an endeavour to improvetile existing condition of things. I believe,that a great deal has been done, but I main-tain that mnore can be done and will be done.Before I shalt have finished it will be myprivilege to mnention one or two directions inlwhich I think reform may be made. On the-question of repatrintion, I have no des~re-to go over the debate, but T noticed thatthroughtout the whole course of the discussionand in the course of all the charges levelledagainst the Government fromn outside the-Haouse, not one shred of assistance waso ffered. It seems as if those whlo desire to>dethrone the Government-I speak particu-larly of those outside the House-take up asubj ect which, in the words of the leader ofthe Opposition, should be above party poli-tics, In an en~deavour to destroy a Govern-mleat which they have never assisted, those-people have no hesitation in dragging in aquestion which fair-minded men regard asalmost sacred, namely, the treatment of thesoldiers who have dlone so much for us.Thlroughout the whole course of the Address-in-reply debate no attempt has been madeby the critics of the G4overnment to assistMinisters in handling this question of repat-riation, which the critics say is a non-partyone.

Hon. P. Collier: The bon. member is notquite correct. In mny reference to the subjectT said that the policy enunciated by the Pre-inier was an excellent one and would meetthe situantion. My complaint was that noeffect had been given to it.

11r. NAIRN: Well, I am pleased to ex-empt the leaider of the Opposition.

Hon. P. Collier: T still think the policyenunciated by the Premier is at good One.

Mr, NATIRN: Apart from this, no word ofassistance has been offered to the Govern-ment. From that fact I can only concludethat thnse who were responsible -for the at-tacks on the Government have only one de-sire, namely, to destroy thie Government withany weapon whatever at hand. The repat-riation problem is a tremendous one. Wehave only 300,000 People in the State, and'

(12 SrBmm, 1V18.) $07

if we are to repatriate even ten per cent, ofour returned soldiers it will cost the countryanythig between 2% and three millionpounds. The expenditure of a huge stun like,that should be approached with the greatestpossible care and caution.

Ron. P. Collier: Do you meal, this StateAlone?

Mr. NAIRN: Yes. If ten per cent, of ourmen are to be repatriated it will cost theState the sunm I have mentioned. I am with'the Government in their attitude of cautionin handling so tremendous and difficult a pro-blem. As far as I can learn, the Governmenthave done reasonald'y well, even as comparedwith the Governments of the Eastern States.I believe that to the Queensland Governmentmust go the credit of having dlone more thanAny other State Government for the returnedsoldiers, but next in order to that of Queens-land our Government have dlone the mostfor the returned soldiers. To say that the(Jovernment have not their hearts in thisproblem is not stating the fact as we see it.I do not think the Government have adoptedany but the most sympathetic attitude to-wards any returned soldier applying forland, and consequently I am not prepared tobelieve that it would be in the interests ofthe country to destroy the Government be-cause of their attitude on this question.

Haln. W. 0. Angwin: Your vote showedthat.

Mr. NAIRN: Certainly. I am not ashamedof my vote. It always will show what I be-lieve. I want again to emnphasise the nees-sity' for the greatest possible caution inhandling this problem.

Hon. P. Collier: If delay mealns caution,we are getting caution.

Mt. NAIE-N: I am not going to suggestthat there should be delay. The leader of theOpposition call do that if he likes. There hasbeen a reasonable amount of caution exercised,'which to those not in symupathy with the move--nuent may be construed into delay. There isin some things a distinction without a differ'

,enee. There is no evidence of the Governmenthaving adopted anl iadifferent attitude towardsthis question. I would, however, impress uponthe Government the necessity for cautiously,carefully, and deliberately handling all thesecases on their merits, not so much the actualcases of the soldiers themselves, bat the vari-ous localities in which they are to be placed.They should exercise this caution unless theywant to land the State into a very difficultposition. With all due respect to the nmemberfor Albany (NY. H. Robinson), who hasvoiced his opinion sd loudly in support of theschenie mlentioned by the nmember for Northam(Hon. J. 'Mitchell), I hope the Government willmot attempt to develop that primnitive countryby means of our returned men. As one whohas spent many years of his life in the pion-eered parts of Australia, which are perhaps-miore similar to the primitive country I havementioned than any other part of the Conmnon-wealth, I say that whoever goes there will find-that the results of his labour will only hereaped by another generation. If this country-was the only part of- the State into which we

.might send our retuirnedI soldiers, it would bea. different matter.. There are, howvever, lion-dreds of thousauds of acres in~ variouis partsof this State which could be and should beused for this purpose. We do not want to sendthese men into inhospitable regions, or to denythem those social surroundings wh ich lmen whohave lived together and enjoyed each otherssociety abroad have so much appreciated. Wedo not want to send then, to remote and farback places where they will be called uponto go through all the hardships of pioneering.

Hon. W. C. Angwin: We are with you, butthe Government are not in favour of this.They approved -of that scheme.

lion. F. E. S. Willmott (flonorary Minister):Under %,cry different conditions and circum-stances.

Mr. NAIRN: I do not care what Govern-ments are in favour of such a scheme, but 1do say that it is to the credit of the presentGovernment that they should have realised themistake that was about to be made. Becausea nistake is umade, that is no reason why otherscoming after should perpetuate it. It is tothe credit of the Government that they dis-covered the mistake and alloptecl anothercourse, as they have done. A good deal ofcriticism has beeni levelled at 'Ministers by cer-tain lion. nmenmbers because of the attitude ofthe Government towards the secondary hides-tries of the State. This criticism "as absurdand unreasonable, and( showedl the ignoranceof certain lion. memrbers concerning the atti-hide of Ministers in their attempt to developour secoadary industries. There is no shadowof doubt that it should be the policy of everyGovernment to attempt as far as reasonablypossible to develop those industries in theState which are capable of being developed.This is a principle which should be adoptedby every Administration. It -is mly desire todeal with one industry in particular, and withthe criticism which was offered upon the at-tempt of the Government to establish it here.I refer to the join industry. The member forPerth, and I ani sorry to say his sentimentswere echoed by the leader of the Opposition,made the remark-

Mr. SPEAKER: Is the hon. member readingfrom "Hlansard"' of this session?

Air. NAIRN: I was about to do so.Mr. SPEARER: That is not permissible,

bu~t the lion, member may refresh his memoryfrom it if lie so desires.

Hion. P. Collier: I am sorry, because if"'Hansard'' reports mie in this way Inever-

Hon. F. E. S. Willmott (Honorary Minis-ter): You only said it in a jocular'manner.

Air. NATRN: The remark was made that ifMessrs. Jones & Co. knew that jami could bemanufactured in Western Australia, And ifsome person attempted to establish the in-dustry, that person would lose his money. Theleader of the Opposition interjected, As willbe seen on page 95 of ''flasard,'' that thiswas unfortunately true.

Hon. P Collier: Unfortunately true that wecould not compete with, Jones & Co.

Mr. NAIRN: It was said that if Jones &Co. knew that they could manufacture jam

[ASSEMBLY.]

in Tasmania and sell it in Western Australiacheaper than those who were attempting tomanufacture it here, then those engaged in theindustry here would hare a losing proposition.That is the effect of the remarks of the mem-ber for Perth.

Ron, W,. C. Angwin: go they would.Mr. N AlUM. I will show the lion. member

how little he knows about the subject.Ron. W. C. Angwin: I know more about it

than the lion: member does.Mr. NAIRN- This is a policy of absolute

despair so far as this industry is concerned.Hon. P. Collier: No, it is not.Mr. 'NAIRN: I will show the lion. member

why it is a policy of despair. If we are goingto adopt an attitude of that kind, we shallnever have an industry established in this State.If Messrs. Jones & Co. had no opposition here-and this is what the member for Perth losessight of, as wvell as the leader of the Opposi-tion who has echoed his sentiments--

lfon. P. Collier: No, I did not.Mr. 'NAIRN: What inducement would there

be for others to come to this State?Hon. NV. 0. Angwin: They dump their stuff

here.Mr. NAIRN: They do not duump their stuff

here. I know what I am talking about. Theymight attempt to dump their stuff here underother circumstances and other conditions, butat present they are not doing so.

Ron. WV. C. Angwin: Because they wouldhare other stuff dumped against them.

Hon. P. Collier: The whole point is as towhether the industry can be established herein competition with thle Eastern States.

Mr. NAIRN: Yes, that is the point. I amsorry to hear the leader of the Opposition ex-press himself in that despairing way.

Hon. P. Collier: If it could be done I wouldwelcome it.

Mr. SPBIKER: Order!Mr. NAIRN: There is mo way of finding

out except to make the experiment. I wantto show lion, members how wrong the argu-ment is. I will instance one of the biggestcompanies in the worldl, namely the Anglo-Swiss Milk Company, which has the handlingof millions of money. Until a few years agoit was never considered prac-ticable to manu1-facture preserved milk in Australia, but bymeans of encouragement and soume assistance,by way of the tariff and in other direc-tions--

R~on. W. C. Angwin r You are right aboutthe tariff.

Mr. NAIRN: The industry was commencedin Australia. Imnmediately the Anglo-SaxonMilk Co. learned this they made it their busi-ness to go into the question'further, with theresult that they too established themselves inAustralia. I say without hesitation that sincewe have the raw produt-and I do notthink anyone will say that our fruit is inferiorto that grown in Tasmnania-it is our boundenduty to give that measure of assistance whichwill be the means of placing the industry upona sound footing. The note sounded by thenmember for Perth and the leader of the Op-position is one that is not fair to the industryor thme State.

Eon. P1. Cornier: Perhaps the hon. memberwill prove that this can be done here in re-gard to any other industry that may come to,'Western Australia.

Mr. NAIRiN. T hare not set out yet toprove that it can be *done.

Hon. P. Collier: You said you~would do so..Mr. iNAIRY: If I set out to prove this I

would bring some facts to bear upon thepoint. I would not follow a conclusion in theway that the leader of the Opposition did.

Hon. P. Collier: It is rent logic to com-pare the jamn making industry with what hasbeen done in the case of preserved milk,

Mr. NAIRN:- That sort of attitude is pain'fully weak, and the leader of the Oppesitioabas no right to express himself so.

Mr. SPEAKER: Order!Mr. NAIRN: We want men who bare faith

in this country and its products. Let us not-worry about Jones & Co., because they bringtheir stuff a couple of thousand miles, if our-industry iii this State is helped and encour-aged. Such a note as that sounded by the-hon. members I have mentioned amounts to adiscouragement of those people who have in-vested their money.

Hon. P. Collier: Your argument is puerile.Mr. NLAIRN: I wish to make some refer-

ence? to anl important industry which can bedeveloped in this State. I speak of thle bottle-making industry. This industry means a great-deal to us iu this State, because our fruit andj am must have bottles for them to be kept in.'When it was discovered by the MtelbourneBottle Manufacturing Company that the localcomlpany had decided to establish a factoryhere, to meet local requirements, within avery short period the Melbourne Companyfound it convenient to come here in oppositionto it. Precisely the same thing applies to the,jam industry, and to scores of others. I want-to give the Minister for Industries the greatestpossible credit-

Ron. W. C. Angwin: We all do that.Mr. NAIRN: For baring done what ha

could to foster local industries, I also wish tosay that in my opinion the opposition of themember for Perth was foolish, peevish, andchildish.

lion, W, 0. Angwin: Why did you notspeak in this way when he was here?

Mr. SPEAKER: Order!Mr. NAIRN. I am no more afraid to speak

of the member for Perth than I am to speakof the niemnber for North-East Fremantle(Hon. WV. C. Angwin). I hare not met theman yet into whose eye I amn afraid to look.

Ho a. W. C. Angwin: I am pleased to hear

Mir. 'Foley: He gets the same wages as youdo; why is hie nob here?

Mr. NATIEN: For my part I want to see-a firmi like Jones & Co. come to this State.

Hon. P. Collier: Hear, hear, if it can bedone.

Ron. F. E. S. Willnmott (Honorary Minis-ter): 'Why can it not be dune?

Mr. NAIRN: Because, in the language ofthle mnember for Perth, that firm can make jamin Tasmania and find a ready market for ithere WithI an open door and no opposition.

[12 SEPTEMBER, 19184 30

HEon. F. E. S. Wilmott (Honorary Minis-ter): But another man who knows his busi-ness can handle it cheaper and better here.

Mr. SPEAKER: Order! I do not see whythis jam business should cause so much feel-iag.

Mr. NALIRN: I only want to say that thereis a great opportunity here for us to encour-age our local industries. This is a question ofgreater importanee than many people realise,not only to this State, but to the whole ofAustralia. What we should be able to do is toestablish ourselves as a self-supporting com-munity. Only by that means shall we be ableto secure the respect of the rest of the world.We do not want our sons to be hewers of woodand drawers of water. We want to find av-enues of employment for them in every direc-tion, but without the necessary encouragementbeing given it will not be possible to accom-plish very much in this way. Without expres-ising any opinion upon the question in disputebetween the Government and the local jamifactory, I do sincerely hope that the Govern-ment will do all that is fair and just, and ex-tend to these people all the latitude they can,not forgetting their obligations to the State.

Ron. P. Collier: They have been generous.Mr. -NAIERN: I1 want the Government to

continue to be generous. This i 's a strugglingindustry, and a ditticult one to establish. Inone respect alone it has a very big handicap,namrely, iii regard to t he available supplies oftin plate. Tin plate is one of the essentials inthe manufacture of jam.

Hon. P. Collier: They use stone jars.The Premier: 'Wheni we have our own bottles

our jami will bh-e put into glass jars.Mr. NAIRN:- The industry is a very diffi-

cult one to operate under present conditions.Mr. 0 'Loghien: Do you not think that the

fruit-growers should have shown their bonafides by taking up a greater number of shares?

Mr. NAIRN: That may be so. We do notall shoulder our burdens as we should. I be-lieve that if the fruit-growers of the Staterealised that their money could be reasonablyinvested in this industry, and if the Govern-ment and the people were prepared to go totheir assistance, there would be no short-coi-ings so far as that point is concerned. Theseare rnntters'of detail.

Sitting suspended frein 1.15 to 2.30 p.m.

Mr. NAIRN: Before luncheon I had fin-ished discussing the aUl-absorbing topic of jan',and after finishing with such a sweet subjectis is rather difficult to find another to followon with gracefully. I do not want to enterfurther my protest against those who by wordor action have discredited the things of thisState either as they exist in their naturalstate or as they are capable of being producedor manufactured here. We should be a self-contained community in this part of Australia.It is a gospel of the greatest possible import-ace and of the greatest consequence to thefuture of Western Australia. We recognisethat if there is any great handicap or defectof character or conduct of the Australianpeople, it is the inborn tendency to discredit.

the value of our own prodnets. I venture tosay if there was that proper, intelligent andnecessary desire on the part of the people ofAustralia to at all times and under all pos-sible conditions subscribe to the position topurchase the comimod-ites of the country, weshould he much further advanced than we are,Therefore I say any individual who by wordor action encdeavours to dleery or destroy thatprinciple is doinig a great injustice to thecountry. That is why I again want to expressmiy appreciation of the services and work ofthe Minister for Industries and those associ-ated with hm in doing their utmost to pro-mote the industries of the State, lioth primaryand secondary. We want secondary industriesjust as we want primary industries, and if wedo not get them ;ve shall lag behind in theprogress of nations. If there is one thingabove anything else which we have learnedfromn the u-ar-if we have learned one lesson-it is that security can only be found by acountry being self -contained. A country likethis with its vast possibilities, without exag-geration, is better prepared and better left byna1ture than any part of the British Empireto provide for the wants of her people. Thiscountry is amply qualified by nature to pro-vide the commodities which we require. I re-gret thle serv ices rendered by the Minister intfurthering secondary industries have not been.appreciated in channels where they-should beappreciated. 1 want to deal with anotherdepartment, and I regret that I cannot quiteexpress myself in the same manner of appre-ciation as I did with regard to the last. Iwant to speak of the conditions of one of themost important departments of the State, Irefer to the Railway Department. That de-partmIent will probahly hare a, more far-reaching effect in the prosperity of the Statethan any other departmient-I say it with allrespect to those who are in charge. I do notmake any attack Ont any individlual, but wemust realise that the railways are up againstthe problem of the finances just as other de-partuments are. There is great need for im-provemnent in the Railway Department. I amentirely in accord with the Government in theirintention Of appoim-ting three commissioners.To commence with, I think there is ample workfor three intelligent, good men. It may bedifficult to find them at the present juncture,but with a department which has to deal witha capital of 16 or 17 million punds, anotherthousand pounds or two in obtaiuihig goodmen will be amply repaid. And I want to saymore; the 'objection I hare to one commis-sionLeter is this: I do not make this as a personalattack on the present commissioner, but whetherhe wished it to be so or otherwise he is estab-lished as an autocrat. It is necessary that heshould reviewv every branch of his department.It is not humanly .possible for any one inan,I do0 not care who he is, to take care of thatone department which affects the life of thecommunity, the industrial, and every other lifeOf the community. It is not humanly possiblefor him to have a complete grasp of that de-partument. However, in the interests of thedepartument and the country generally, it willbe a wise and good policy to appoint

309

LASSEMBLY.J

the couissioners Which wrill bring usinto line with other parts 0± the Uomminon-Weiralth. I1 want to, draw the attention of -theHouse to whiere I1 consider this departmlent is

giigtkState a very bad advertisement. Ihave in mind 'tow the golddields service. Forsonme anaccountable6 rea~son, whether the capac-Mty of tile departmuent is unduly taxed or notI do 'not know, but for some unaccountablereason, from my observations, the control ofthat branch of the service is very nauch belowwhat it should be and worse than it was twoor three years ago. In coming into contactand diseussing this question with those "-hotravel over that line, the onl .unanimous ver-diet is that the railway service fromn Kalgoorlieto Perth is badly and disgraceflfly managedin mnly respects. I believe there is a greatdeal of favouritisin shown onl that line inboohing berths and] tickets. l have seooi three,or four women jainbed into every coinpart-imnut, and] onl the same train I1 have seen acoach with several reserved compartmients, withonly one individual in each and not vecry im-portant men.

'Mr. Teesdale: Members of Parliament?Mr. NAIRN: Some of themi were not even

members of Parliament. Now that is not right.I want to draw the attention of the House to:another incident which I saw myself.

M1r. Foley: On seine occasions mcemblers ofParliament reserve compartments.

Mr. NAIRN: That 'nay be so, but thosepaying fares are janibed like herrings in atin. That is wrong. With regard to reservedcoaches, I want to bring before the Housewhat I consider is a wrong policy onl the partof the Railway Department, particularly at atimle whlen economy is necessary. Only recently)it was necessary for one of the judges of theSupreme Court to visit Kalgoorlie. I ami toldthe length of hlis visit to Kalgoorlie was onlya few hours, yet that gentleman was accoma-modated with nothing less than a Minlisterial.car, and a retinue of servauts to look after-that one man. That is entirely wrong.

The Minister for Works: A Ministerial ear?Mr. NAIRN: Even if it was a special car,

-at a time like this when economy is the out-Standing thing, no person, whether a judge ora member of Parliament, should be entitled tothat privilege. I understand it is not grantedin any other State in Australia. Others oflesser influence in the community are coin-pelled to suhmit to reduced privileges, manyprivileges have been taken away, and in manyandl various departments there has been re-trenchment, wrhile here is a glaring anomaly.1 (10 not know what it cost the State to takethat one man to Kalgoorlie.

Hon. P. Collier: Fifty pounds each way-Mfr. NAIRN: That would be £100, and I do

not think it is an exaggeration. I believe ithas always been the policy of this State, butit is a wv.rong one. -We. want someone who hascourage enough to lay hold of everyone in thecommunity and see that each subscribes to thepolicy of. economy; it is not a difficult task.It is possihie to take hold of somec servanit ofthe State who is receiving £200 and take aw'aysomc privileges, but when it comnes to others,it is a; different matter. All should he pla~ed anthe sMe basis. Economy should be exercised

,wt evn-anded justice, and when we see thisgoing onl, I feel it iny bonden duty to ex-press my disapproval. It is out, of kcepini.with the timnes. I do not want to say more on.that subject. The Premier says, hear, hear.I 'know it* is not pleasant for -any of us tomake these statements, but someone must say-them. They must he said and why should wenot say thenm I do not say these things dis-respectfully, but a practice has grown up foryears, and now is the timie to knock some ofthe excrescences off. Another matter L wvantto speak of, and this affects the constituencyI1 represent, is the Forestry Bill which the Gov-erunient have given notice of their -intentionto bring in. I realise quite fully that theMinister in charge of the Forestry Depart-snent, who is enthusiastic in his work, will makea. conscientious attempt to bring i a good.,workable measure. There are one or tivoaspects which I.' want him to keep in taid whendealing with the Bill. -I amn speaking now fronmthe point of view of my constituents. I repre-sent a number of mxen who have been livingfor years on the timber industry. They arepoor, Jan, not capitalists; they may have alittle hionie and they may have a little orchard.Some of their tune is spent in employment inthe timber industry, the remlaining portion theydevote in eadeavouring to establish homies forthemselves. I do not want anything to beplaced in the Bill which will curtail the reason-able liberties and privileges of these people. Iremember when 'Mr. Johnson was Minister, andI' was sitting on thle other side of the House, agreat lecal of injustice was done to men en-gaged in this industry.

Hion. P. Collier: We lost the Swvan scatthrough it.

M.,r. YAWiN: I believe that had agreat deal to do with placing me in mypresent position, and I do noot want tofail, because what I said then f said con-scientiously. I shall help the Government toth6 full extent of my power to preservethis great natural industry of the State.It is a great and valuable asset, but the Gov-crnhnent nmnst remember that there are thosewho muist be considered. I say that in noparochial sense, for there are scores andscores of tilem. I give this warning not inany threatening mianner at all, but merelyin order to point out to the Minister the dan-ger of such action as was taken by. one ofhis predecessors. With re-gard to the partyto which I belong, I have nowv the sanme faithin what the National party Can do for thisState as T had when I helped, in mny humblewray, to bring it into existence. I desire toprotest once more against an attitude takenuip by outside, irresponsible bodies. Ofcourse I do not refer to our friends opposite,whose duty it is to protest as vigorously aspossible in order to keep usi uip to the mark.'Rut T (In protest against thnt of which we3have had an example in this House during thelast mionth-influence being used by thoseWho have no responsibility, to urge membersat any cost, andi qui1te regardless of the sac-redn ess of the subject, to destroy theNational party because thle members of that-party persist in their original policy. I

[12 SEPTEMBER, .19.18.] M

am glad that the National party were borndespised by the Press, and that once theywere in existence they defied outside inter-ference. At the outset we were informedby the Press that unless we selected certainmembers as Ministers we were doomed. TheHon. Frank Wilson was informed that onlytwo Honorary Ministers were required, oneof whom might be from the National Labour-jets and one from the Country party. Be-cause that advice dlid not satisfy the aspira-tions of the National party, the same influ-ence has been continuously and viciouslyused against us. I am glad, however, to ob-serve that the sim total of defections fromthis party has been only two.

Hon. P. Collier: Three.Mr. NAIRN: No; only two. One was wit!)

us only in his imagination. So long as I amhere I shall raise my voice against irrespon-sible interference from outside wheneversuch interference is attempted.

Hon. P. Collier: Is the hon. member nowreferring to the Farmers and Settlers' As-sociation?7

Mr. NAIRN: NO: to the ''West Austra-lian,'' the author of the last attack on theGovernment.

Mr. Johnston: The gutter Press.Mr, NAIRN: I sincerely hope that the

N'ational party will preserve its individualityand its self-respect, and continue to do thatwhich it has undertaken conscientiously todo. Heaven knows that if ever there was atime when the control of affairs was difficult.that time is now. In our hearts all Of usmust be prepared to acknowledge the tre-mondlous task facing the Government. Inconclusion let me express my general appro-val, though not in every detail, of what theNational party have dlone for Western Auis-tralia. I believe the party will continue towvork for the benefit of the State, notwith,-standing the slurs and insinuations east uponthem from various quarters. In the interestsof Western Australia it is good that weshould, as fur as possible, sink all partydifferences and work for the one common endof helping Western Australia, in her hour ofdiffliciltv, , out of that unfortunate position inwhich she finds herself, through no fault ofoars. but through circumstances over whichwe li,ie no control-ircumstances which in-dicate that the -y are about to pass away. Itwill he car privilege, while considering thebest interests of the country as a whole, andof those whom I represent, to assist the Gov-ernment to do that which they have set theirbands to do.

Mr. VERYARD (Leederville) (2.52 p m.]:Some hon. members have said that the Go.v-ernor's Speech constitutes a record forlength. Yet there is one paragraph in thatSpeech which in itself, I consider warrantsthe existence of the document-I refer to theparagraph dealing with liquor reform. Thou-sands of people in this State are, and havefor a long time been, anxious for sonme kindof reform in this direction. There is at pre-sent a strong agitation in favour of prohibi-tion. T personally am not anguine that theW~estern Australian people will accept pro-

hiL-:tioa, though I. believe that course wouldbe in the best interests of the community.Australasia spends something like IS millionssterling annually on the liquor traffic. Ifthis huge sumn of mioney' flowed into the Fed-eral wvar chest, it would certainly have astrong influence towards the financing of ourwar expenditure. The Premier recently re-ecived a deputation on time prohibition ques-tion, and in his reply said that hoe could donothing because of a certain compact. Tomy) mind. that was an extremely lame excusefor a Premier to make. I believe its onlypL14[ose was to absolve the Premier from thenecessity' for -taking any active steps to-words prohibition. I am aware that someyears ago a compact was made. But it was;made in' ordinary circumstances. Singe then,this terrible war has come about; and thecircumstances of to-day are not those of thepast. As we know, circumstances alter cases;and here we have a ease where it is a ques-tien of winning the war. In my opinion, ifto that cudI it is necessary to sacrifice theliquor trade, or any other trade, the sacri-flee ought to he made. Wile it is true thata compact was made, that compact was madeonly between the Government for the timebeing and- those interested in the liquor traf-fie. Thme compact did not receive the people'sendorsement. Ministers of the day tookupon themselves the responsibility ofentering into that compact; and shortlyafter there was an appeal to the people, andthe Government were badly defeated-fairlygood evidence that the people did not en-dorse the compact.

Ron. R. H.L Underwood (Hlonorary Minis-ter): Is the hon. member sure that was thecause of the defeat?

Mr. VERYARD: Ron., members may be,surprised to learn that in each of my electioncampaigns I have supported the compact.I supported it because I felt that it con-stituted a fair compromise between the Stateand the liquior trade. Moreover, I supportedit in opposition to the strong wishes of myfriends. More especially have I had to en-counter the opposition of that well inten-tioned but misguided body called the West-era Australian Alliance. I have never re-eiyed the support of that body, but I have,had active opposition from then,, and alsofrom the beer trade.

Hon. P. Collier: And you dlowned thenmboth.

Air. VERYARD: I have not yet fallen.Notwithstanding their knowledge of my con-sistency on the liquor question, the Western:Australian Alliance, during my last cam-paign, were unable to perceive the difference..between a candidate who had always in this,House supported liquor reform, and a candi-date who was opposed to any kind of liquorreform whatsoever. That fact shows theprejudice against me. The beer trade seem tobe very fearful of prohibition. I notice thaton the hoardings they are advertising thatif prohibition should come about, tairationwould increase 100 per cent. I am quite pre-pared to believe that, should prohibition be

311

[ASSEMBLY.)

given effect to, there wvould be somte dislo--cation of taxatiou, which might continue fora short time; but I am convinced that theeventual benefits front prohibition would beimmense. The 18 millions sterling spent an-Dually in drink does ndt by any mneanis Fe.present the total coat to the people of theliquor traffic. How ueh is lost annually inwages thiongl drinkI How mnuch through-accidents caused by drunkenness? Howmunch through the need for upkeep of asy-lums, prisons, hospitals, police, and inagis-trates9 In Australia the cost of these in-titutions run imnto millions of pounds annu--ally. And there is a reverse ,side evena tothis-those people who do0 not use intoxicat-ing drink, who do not get drunk, who donot require asylns, prison;t hospitals, Orpoliee, nevertheless have to pay their pro-portion. of taxation for the maintenance ofthese institutions. In this respect we arereally made our brothers' keepers. TheLicensing Act requires several amendments,particularly as regards its local option sec-tions. Provision is made for local option,but it requires that 60 per cent, of the elec-tors should vote, which means that thosepeople who are opposed to any liquor re-form have merely to absent themselves fromtthe polling booth and thus ensure that the 60per cent. required shall not he attained. Hon.members nrc aware that even at Parliament-ary elections it is not often tlhat a 60 percent. average of voters is reached. But whena large section of voters absent themselvespurposely from the ballot, that percentagebecomes impossible of attain ment.

Hon. P. Collier: There is always iuorethan 60 per cent. recorded in. this State.

Mr. VERYARD: EvYen suppose that wereso, it means that every cless of the comn-numnity goes to the ballot box, but in thecase of local option a large number of peo-ple would not go, so that 60 per cent. would-not be reached- in my opinion those people-who take the trouble to vote are entitled toclaim that the decisioa be carried into ef-fect. In connection with the election ofmembers of Parliament, or in connectionwith the business of the House, or anythingin fact, the majority always governs, and Ifail to see why it should not be made toapply here also. If prohibition is broughtabout it is likely that owners of licensedhouses will be obliged to accept a reductionin the rents. Seeing that these owners nowreceive 100 per cent, more rent for licensedpremises than. for similar premises which arenot licensed, that 50 per cent. reductionwould not hurt them.

Hon. F. E. S. Willmott (Honorary Minis-ter). The lion. member is an optimist aboutbeotel property-, I don't think.

Mr. VERYARD: Should this large sum.of money be available as the result of pro-hibition, we will find that thonsands ofhomes will be generally better eqnipped, andthat greeter comfort will result to the peo-ple as a whole. As the licensing law. ex-ists at the present time greater satisfactionwould follow if it were properly enforced.

Thle law at the present time is evaded everyday, and when a conviction is obtained thepenalty imposed is always out of proportionto the offence. Only a few dlays ago a pub-lican was fined the paltry sum of l5s. forsupplying drink to two people who were notbona fide travellers. Suich a penalty is use-less as a deterrent. The amount should beconsiderably more, and on the third occa-sion there should not be a fine but a for-feiture of the license.

Hon.- F. E. S. Willmiott (Honorary Minis-ter): In time present state of the trade Ishould not think they could afford to paymuch more than l5s.

Mr. VCRYA.RD: I desi-c briefly to refer tothe Moora Licensing Court incident in re-gird to which I asked some questions of theHonorary Minister the other day. The ans-wers given to the first three questions were inthe affirumative. The next question asked wasas to whmether the police were instructed notto oppose the granting of a license becauseof the conditions of sale. The answer to thatquestion was-

Yes. A request was umade improperly tothe Commissioner of Police by an officerof the Lands Department without the know-ledge of the Minister controlling the LandsDepartment or the Minister in control- ofthme police. The matter is being fully in-vestigated.

To my mnind such instructions coming froman officer shlow a remarkable lack of controlin the department, We have the Premier asMinister in control of the department, whilstthe duties are carried out by an HonoraryIMinister. Yet an officer of the department isable to conitrol matters to the extent disclosedin the answer. Then I asked a question as towhether the magistrate, had he refused togrant the license under such conditions, wouldhave been retrenched. This was the reply-

Certainly not. The Government have nodesire whatever to influence magistrates intany matter, and although the land was soldon certain conditions, it was never the in-tention of the Government that the appli-cation for the license should be dealt within other than the ordinary way-free fromany influence whatever outside of the evi-dence submitted.

This shows absolute ignorance of the value ofthe conditions on time title. To my mind atitle is like a letter of credit. It only re-quires to he presented to be hionoured. Whena Minister says that there was no attempt toinfluence the bench, I say that it would beimpossible for the bench and thcr Police De-partnient, remembering what happened someyears ago to Capt. Hare and to Mr. Roe, notto hesitate before refusing to grant thelicense with the conditions embodied on thetitle as was the case at 2Moora. I next askedthe Minister "'Wonld the department be uin-der any obligation to the owners in the caseof the refusal of the license?'' The answerto that was ''INo.' 17if I held that title deed,as a business man I would require compensa-tion. Tt is part of - the agreemnt, and theagreement in that ease provides for a license.

Ron. F. E. S, Willmett (Honorary Minis-ter): It doss not,

313.[12 SFTEMBEE7 1918.4

Mr. VEKYARD: It does; there is no ques-tion about it. There was to be a buildingerected within a certain time, and if theterms, were not complied with the individualwould not be entitled to compensation.

1{on. F. E. S. Willnnott (Honorary3 Minis-ter): That is the lion. inember 's reading of it.

Mr. 'VERYARD: I ami sorry thne HonoraryMinister cannot give nio a better one. Thenext question I asked was, ''Is it intendedto continue the policyv of selling land uinderthese conditions?" and the answer was-

Tine Governmnit, holding that the Licens-ing Bench is the only authority to decidewhether new licenses should be granted,sider that when land is sold with a right-to apply for a license, conditions should beimposed to rprevent dumimying and tinehawking of the license.

The inference is that the systein is to be con-tinued. I do not know' that tine hawking oflicenses would be n serious matter in West-ern Australia, If so it should be put down.I next asked "Is thle Minister aware that in1911 an overwhelming majority of the eec-tors decided against increased licenses in theState?'' This was the answer-

Yes, except in the Gascoyne district, butit is still competent for tine bench to grantlicenses in localities more than 15 milesfrom an existing license.

I -f1n sorry my friend the miember for nas-coyne is not here, because I ann sure hie wonidblush. The replies given -by tine HonoraryMinister are a condemnation of the wholesystem. I ain justified in saying that thelicensed house in question will require policeprotection which will cost thes State at least£250 per annum. Probably the land was soldat 100 per cent, above its value on Uaccountof the conditions which were imposed.L Wemay therefore say that the increase in thatrespect was £50. Four years revenue at £25yearly and the £50 added value to which Thare referred, wtill give a total of £150. Thatwill be thle revenue the State will derive. Onthe other hnalld, it will cost the country £1,000for police protection. There will thus be adebit balance of £850. Then we wonder whythe deficit continues to increase. A peculiarphase of tine Mfoora licensing business wasthe fact that a license should be granted forthis place which is 35 miles from a policestation, while Another application, which wasfor a galloni license for a place only 253 milesfront police protection, was refused. Thatcertainly showis, to my mind, that the imposi-tion of conditions was sufficient to bring aboutthe desired effect so far as the licensing benchwere concerned.

Hon. r. Collier: There seems to be greatactivity, in connection with licenses in coun-try districts.

Mr. VERYARD: Tlney are getting ready toreceive compensation.

Ron. P. Collier: But thle hion. member isagainst compensation.

Mr. VEIRVARD: Not necessarily' , if pro-hibition cannes about. Another matter towhich I desire to refer hase reference to theYandanooka estate. I re~ently asked the Mlin-ister for Lands some questions, but his revlieswere certainly unsatisfactory. So far back as

twoe years ago I asked a number of questions,aind they too were very unsatisfactory. I donot blamie tile Minister so much as I do theofficer who supplied the answers. Anyhow, inthis ease they were absolutely incorrect. Dur'lug the recess I had the pleasure, through tile-courtesy of a member of the Irwin roads board,of being driveu to an estate beyond Yandan-oolca, and necessarily I travelled through oraround the Yandanooka. property for a dis-tauce of 24 miles. One of the questions Iasked onl the former occasion tvas. as to whec-ther sufficient shieds had been provided to coverall the innchintery on the farin. The replyWhich Was gh-enl was that provision had been.made for housing all the machinery whichwould be affected by weather conditions. Idid not know that there was any miachinerywhich, would not be affected by weather eon-ditions, Anyhow, the reply was not in accord-ance with the facts. There was no shed uc-coninuodation whatever at that, time, but inn-mnediately afterwards sonc sheds wvere put up.The result, however, was not satisfactory, be-cause thne wvind from any quarter of tln& cor-pass could blow around and across the mach-inery that was put in the sheds. On the occa-sion! of my recent visit I saw two tractionengines wvithout any cover whatever. The costof these would possibly be £1,000 eachi. Thesemac-hines hadI heen exposed to all weathers forsomne two years ' and lion, members can imagine-that it nil? not be long before they will not beworth their weight in scrap iron. At the timeof m9j visit there were ten or twelve harvesterslyingr close by the Yanilanooka railway station-They were being sent awiay somewhere by train.I can only iumagine by their appearance thatthey were being sent somnewhlere for- repairs.1 do not think any respectable tarnmer wouldhar e likedl to confess to being the owner ofthose harvester's. Last week T asked some ques-tions of the Honorary Minister iii connectionwithi the estate. The first was as to whetherhe was aware that thousands of acres at Yan-danuoka were affected with the noxious weedknown as stinlcwort, and that it was rapidlyspreading. The Minister replied that therewere not thousands of acres of that plant aitthe estate, and that its growth was confined toa few isolated places. When I receivedl thereplies T sent them to a member of tbe Irwinroads board. T just wrote at the b-ottonl,"'What do you think?'' I recieved a replylast evening. It read as follows:-

The replies given were certainly charac-teristic of thle manl who( made then. 'Heknows from personal knowledge that suchis 'lot the case. Hle had another member ofthe hoard drove through hundreds of acresof stinkuvort in full seed. There are thoul-sands more acres of the same weed.

The Minister said that stern had14 been taken toeradiente thle weed. The letter states-

Absolutely no steps were takcen towardseradication onl thle estate, while adjoiningproperty: owners splent hundreds of -poundsin doinga so, and the roads board havegruhbed the road area for shout 20 milesthrough the estate.

The writer of the letter Saw thorlsands ofacres of the weed onl thle estate, and hie points

314 [ASSEMBLY.]-

out how eager his board have been to have theestate make some effort at eradication. Yetnothing was done, notwithstanding their re-quest. It is quite evident that the HonoraryMinister, either in himself or being misled byhis officer, was deceiving the House when hegave those replies. Let mue say a few words inreference to our primary and our secondary in-dustries. The member for Perth (Mr. Pulking-ton) has said that what we require is increasedproduction in such lines as wool, beef, muttonand timber. Coming to the secondary indus-tries the lion. meomber said hie wished to speakof them wvith the utmost disrespect. I lookedup to see if I hadl not made a mistake. Tcould not imagine a King's Counsel, a leaderof the Bar, being guilty of making such re-marks. I~f the lion. m~ember were Minister- forIndustries T take it he would be sending ourwool away witl] a view of having it returnedin the form of cloth, that hie "wovid send awayour timber to have it returned in the form offurniture, and * would send our hides awayto be returned ii l)oots and shoes. Whata wonderful way of helping Western Aus-tralia! To my mnid, while it is ,sees-sary to encourage our primary industriesit is no less necessary to encourage our second-ary industries, as that encouragement meanis theretention of millions of ,oey in on,- state.Had the member for Perth as keen a business!instinct as be has a legal instinct, he wouldrealise the importance of secondary industries.I suppose all holt. members recognise, the needfor developing our primary industries, bu.t atthe smne time everything possible should bedone to foster our secondary industries. Un-like the member for Perth, T think the Ministerfor Tindustries is to be congratulated on hisefforts to establish secondary industries. Tdo not suppose for a moment that the Ministerclaims to be infallible. T think his greatestmistake was made in regard to the pr-oposalto lease any part of the foreshore in connec-tion with the ship-building enter- rise. Prob-ably hie miade a great mistake also when hieoffered part of the Perth foreshore to theFederal Government for any purpose what-ever.

Hon. P. Collier: He certainly should hav-egone inland for the ship-building sites.

Mlr. VERYARD: As a* citizen, T object tothe foreshore being used for the purpose. ItIs pleasing to learn from the Governor's Speechthat the encouragement given to the establish-=cut of butter factories has had beneficialresults. Let 'no say that the butter supplycould be largely increased if a railway werebuilt from Suhiaco to Wanneroo. The distancewould be only 15 miles, and probably the linewould be profitable from the very beginning.Wanerco is one of the oldest settlements inthe State, and deser-ves consideration. Apartfrom the advantages to be derived in othlerrespects. it is to be remembered that the Minis-ter for Forests is now puitting in a pipe plan-tation to the east of Wanneroo. Also, with arailway to Wanneroo, a very large milk suplywould be made available to the Cityl andl Ihave it or the assni-anee of a friend that abutter factory would be started straight away.Wanneroo is eminently suited for the produc-tion of milkm and butter. Tt has large areas of

grazing land, and also of swamp land on whichto grow food for the cattle.

Mr. Harrisonu: Has the halt. member anyidea of the numiber of cattle in that area?

iMr. VERYARD: No, but I know that someof the best butter ,made in Western Australiacomes from that district. Other industrieswould be encouraged by the proposed railway,for all along the route are immense firewoodareas, some large areas of building stone, andsome of the richest limestone deposits in theState, to say nothing of the pr-oducts of thegardens. Thus it will be seen that a cheaplyconstructed line, would be profitable from its",cry inception. If. ac, not so particularly inter-sted in W~auneroo as In fin mny own con-stituency. The Premier himself representsWanneroo. I know thme district and its capa-bilities well, and I have no hesitation in urgingthe Govermnent to build the railway. If therailway wvere built, we should have butterfactories there running the whole year round.There is another aspect to this question ofsecondary industiis. I think the consumersin the State might very well be expected togive local industries better support than theydo. In too many cases the people believe thatnothing made in Western Australia is good.

Hon. W. C. Angwvin: Do not the manufac-turers themselves support that belief?

Mr. VIERYARD: Take biscuits. Our annualimportation of biscuits amounts to £50,000,yet we have biscuit factories inl our own State,flue of which in open market won a gold meodal,I presume fao- the quality of its biscuits. Ttshould be noted by our own people that biscuitsmade here compare faivourably with the im-pornted article.

Holl. WV. C. Anigwin : And further, theme aremmore lbiseuits in thle packet.

Mr. VERYARD: in 189f) the State iun-ported £65,00(1 "-orthi of eggs. During the lastthree months of last year our imports amountedto £1A60. Fortunately the figures arc drop-ping, and T am glad to say that recently someeggs were exported fromt this State to theEastern States. T would like to congraltulatethe shippers of those eggs, but from myv ex-perience of eggs from the Eastern States, Iam afraid that we shall have to look furtheralkild for a satisfactory market. Let mec referto the settlement of returned soldiers atOsborne Park. Some time ago, at the requestof the Returned Soldiers' Association, a conm-juittee of business men' were appointed tosupervise and manage the settlement scheme atthat place. T am sorry to say that althoughfull control was granted to that committee theyare making a sorry mess of things through sheerneglect of their duties, The poultry school atSubiaco is umactically a farce. The mafnagerlives some distance down the line and is fro-quently conspicuous by his absence. The re-turned soldiers have but a limited opportunityof learning anything at the school. Manyvaluable fowtls have dlied, and I air informiedthat a box of eggs recently sent there for in-cubhating purposes was allowed to lie in theweather for a fortnight before being put intothe incubator. The soldiers already settled atOsborne Park are very pleased with thes helpnd symonathy accorded to them by' thelocal residjents. Next in order of their

[12 SPEBRTi. 1

satisfaction is the class of building beingerected there, !n addition to comfort-'able homes the soldiers there have wind-mills, 'with the ftecessary tanks and stands.These settlers have already been there forsome months, but no -water has yet been sup-plied to them except that which they havebeen able to cart for themselves a distance.of a mile. -This ltas' taken uip a lot of theirtime, aml should not have been necessary.In one case, I sin informed, the Works Dle-partment put down a water pipe without suc-cess, Later on they put down another, butwere not satisfied because there was no water.A, third effort was made but without success,andi the whole thing, was left at that. I wasasked who would have to pay for all this ex-pense. None 'of the settlers can learn whatthey are to be charged for the whole concernafterwards. I am informed that they couldget a couple of hundred pounds advanced,from the Agricultural Bank, for Which theywould have to pay interest at the rate ofseven per cent. Suich help may be of useto them , but it scents to me that the interestis rather high.

Hon. W. G. Angwin: Have these soldiersto pay seven per cent.?

Mr. VEBYARD: Yes. The class of fowlssupplied to them is also very unsatisfactory.Eachl one is supposed to have had 200 fowlssupplied to him, but none of them have any-thing like that number now, possibly no~teven half that number. Many of thesefowls were old and useless, and were diseasedwith croup and scaly legs. Those acquaintedwith poultry raising know that the first es-sential in the success of the undertaking isto have pure and healthy stock. Unless goodstock is provided this poultr 'y raising cannotbe conducted at a profit. I am. satisfied thatthe returned soldiers engaged in this indlus-try are determined to fight out the question,but they stand in need of seine practical sym-pntliy on the part of those to whom they areable to look. It seems to me that the Minis-ter controlling the department should com-municate with the Returned Soldiers' Asso-ciation, and ask them to request the poultrycommittee to resign, either with a view toappoint-Ing a fresh committee, or with a, viewto the department taking control of the busi-ness. The present system is very uinsatis-factory. I ish to bring forward anothermatter out of friendship to a young mani,whose father and I were associated very in-timnutelyv for ninny years, and whoni I knowto be thoroughly deserv ing of help. Some11 years ago two brothers went out to thetbarrafdong district. The member for Wil-liains-Narrogin JM..ohnston) knows thecase well and can endorse what I say in thematter. A fter working together for someeight years they decided that one brothershould remagin oil the land while the otherfought for his country. .I am sorry to saythat the brother who fought for his countrywill not retmirn. On3- a few weeks ago theother brother had to retire from Iis farm.lIre applied to the Agricultural Bank for ns-sistance, but was informed that there was nomoney for the pmrpose. During the period

that he has been on the farm hie has put uipnine miles of wire fencing, has cleared 160acres, ringbarked 500 acres, and freed frompoison 000 acres. There is a four-roomedhouse oii the 'property -anud stabling and otheraccoimnodaionm, and altogether over 9,0W(has been spent thcre.. Of the full amountthat would be required' to be p)aid for rent,namely, £800. the sum of £400 has beea paid.This yotig man would have been glad to,have hiad the use of £400 at this juncture inorder to se ,e hiin through. It is painful forhin, to leav'e the farm because he .likes thelife. He would be glad to go back if liecould get assistance. At present the depart-ment is pressing hit for one years rent,which is all that he owes at present. Hon.members knew the bad seasons whicht farm-ers have had to put up :with for some timepast. The result in this case has been thatwhat stock he had on the farm he has had tosell in order to pay his way. Finding that hecannot get an without asistanee he has hadto leave the farm. I think this is a ease inwhich the Premier might do something. It isjust as mtuch the duty of the Government tokeep competent and deserving men on theland as it is to put untried men there.

Mr. Teestlale: H-ow much remnt does lie owelMr. VERYARD: About £40, or a little

under. This man 's property is worth a tleast £1.500, and lie wants the sum of £400to help lmin along.

MAr. Harrison: Has the ease been laid lie-fore the Minister for Lands?

Air. VERYARD: Not so far as I know.Hun. P. Collier: How can the GovernntD

assist him when they do not know of hitease?

Mr. VERYARD: He hias only so far dealtwith the Agricultural Bank. I do not thialithe matter has been placed before the Minister. I draw attention to it in the hope thatthe Premuier mnay he able to extend seine heirin this case. It is a deserving one, and Ithiak if help were extended it would meeiwith general approval.

Hon. F. ER S. WTLIMOTT (Honorary Min-ister-Nelson) [3.371p.m.]: Ofailthe speecheqthat have been omade in this debate the onewhich appealed to me most was that of themember for Swan (Mr. Naira), I listened tothat speech with very great delight. It wasvery fair and very true. He pointed outthat although the priomary industries were soimportant, the State could not progress as itshould if the secondary industries were leftwithout auy help or assistamee fromn the Gov.-emninent. Unfortunately, there are manyfarmers in the State who are imbued withthe idea that primtary indlustries alone arenecessary for this State to reach prosperitythat so far as the secondary Industries areconcerned, they are more or less parasites. Thesoomier they get that idea out of their headsthe better.

Mr. Harrison: Who thinks that?Hon. F. R. S. WILLMNOTT (Honorary Min-

ister): Let the lion. member read the papers,and lie will find that many farmers, andothers who should know better, are writing

115

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to them~ paintit~g out that primary industriesonly can bring this State to prosperity.

Mr. Harrison: I should like to see thepaper which says that.

Hon. P. E. S. WILLMOTT (Honorary Mini-ister): We know that it is not so. The menh-her for Swan laid that plainly before theHouse.

Hon. WV. C. Angwin: The hon. member doesnot road the ''Primary Producer.''

Hon. F. E. S. WIJJLMOTT (Honorary MUin-ister): The jam factory was mentioned.If the fruit industry of the State is to bekept going it is necessary that the surplusfruit should be forwarded to a jam factory.Fortunately for Australia, and particularlyfor Tasmania, we are sending away 1.,000,000lbs. of jam to Great Britain. What is goingto happen after the war when Great Britainwill not require all this jaml It will haveto be absorbed to a large extent in Australia.We have, therefore, a better opportunity to-day than ever before, or than we are everlikely to haive in the near future, of start-ing this industry and putting it upon a pro-per basis in Western Australia. We canlpoduce fruit hero, equal, if not superior, tothe fruit used hy Jlones & Co. of Tasmania.We have the mioney here with which to es-tablish the industry if people would onlyhave the necessary faith in the country, andparticularly in the fruit industry. Unfor-tunately we have been hit hardly in the past.In years gone by we had a jam factory estab-lished at Donnybrook, which unfortunatelyturned out a financial failure. Now we haveanother jam factory established, but thlefruitgrawers. themselves only took uip a smallnumber of shares, paying in all £1,300. TheAssociated Fnilitgrowers caine to the help) ofthe jaml factor~y to the tunle Of a consider'ableamount. The saine people, who had shares inthe jam factory, also had shares in the As-sociated Fruitgrowers. and they put in some-thing aver £2,000 over and above the £C1,300put in by thle shareholders of thle jam factory.It will thus be seen that these people (lidput their hands into their own pockets inorder to htell) themselves.

Hion. P, Collier: What happened to theDonnybrook factory?

Hon. F. E. 8. W QJrLMOTT (Honorary Mini-lster): It becamne defunct owing to had mail-agement. The first batch of jam turned Outwas put on the market, but being of a poorquality was turned down by the storekeeperswho returned it all to the factory. Unfor-tunately the jamn had been burnt in the mak-ing, and was therefore condemned. The re-sult was that the whole thing went smash,

Han. P. Collier: flow long ago?Hon. W. C. Angwin:; This was in 1011.lion. F. E. S. WULLMOTT (Honorary 'Min-

ister): Unfortunately I was a shareholder.So far as the present factory is concerned,a good deal of the trouble has been causedthrough bad management. With a thoroughlyup-to-date manager, I canl see no reason, inspite of difficulties regarding tin supplies andother material, why it should not be a suc-cess. The prices paid by the factory are notas good as the prices paid by Jones & Co.in Tasmania,

Hon. P. Collier: You mean for the fruttHon. F. E. S. W1LLMINOTT (Honorary W-

ister) : Jonles & co, are paying more fortheir fruit in Tasmania than the factory ispaying the Ioeal growers here. If the fac-tory is to be successful it will have to bethoroughly reorganised. I hope this will bedone. The mtemuber for Leedervilte (Mr. Ver-yard) mentioned the Osborne Park poultryfarm. As hie stated, these farmns were uindera committee. The Government had nothingto do with them. The committee is deserv-ing of congratulation far a great deal ofthle wvork they have done, but like other peo-ple, they have nmade mistakes, with the re-sult that there has been a shortage of waterat these poultry farms. I understandthat the matter has been put right.Regarding Yandanooka, the ]tel. membercan know very little about stinkwort, orelse he would not allow himself to be misledby a mnember of the Irwin Roads Board.Stinkwort travels south. On either side ofthe Bunbury railway line, nothing is to beseen but stinkwort. But is that country use-less because of the stinkwortil in the ]Ko-lonul) district any quanltity of stinkivort maybe seen; and yet in that district is producedthe fintest wool produced in Australia to-day,the wool which obtains the best price amongAustralian wools. In the eultivated pad-docks stikwort is to be fouind; but let hon.members ask Professor Paterson whether weare to give uip all hope because some of ourlands are badly infested with stinkwort?Professor Paterson will tell them that theroots of thle stinkwort, in going down as theydo, aerate thie soil, and have especially a goodeffect on stiff soils. People also say thatfarmers runnuing sheep in stinkwort pad-docks find that at certain periods of the yearthle sheep live on the stinkwort. I defy con-tradiction of that statement.

Mfr. Mone11y: The sheep starve on thlestmlk wart.

Hon. F. E. S. 'WILLM,\OTT (Honorary Min-ister) : The Dardanup estate is one of thefinest in the South-West, and yields one ofthe largest mioney returns per acre. Yet thefields there are full of stinkwort. It issimply creating a nightmare to assert thatthis weed will ruin Yandanooka.

Hon. W. C. Angwin: The member forLeederville was complaining about the int-correct information given to him.

Hon. F. E. S. WILLMOTT (Honorary Min-ister) : It is not incorrect information,unless the weed has spreadl very considerablysince I was on the estate. The talk aboutthousands of acres being covered with stink-wort is rubbish. At 'Mingenew I told thefarmers, "TI think you are frightening your-selves uinnecessarily." And so they are. TheHouse canl accept my assurance that there isnothing to worry about at all in connectionwith stinkwort. As the member for Mt.Magnet (Xr. Tray) has said, there are otherplants which are very diangerous indeed, andin regard to which every effort at eradicationshould be made. But that does not apply tostinkWort, 'Next, the member for Leeder-

[12 SEPTEMBEiR, 1918.1 317

-viule brought up the ease of two brothers,'one of whom has, unfortunately, been killed-at the Front. If the hon. member wvill in-form mme of the facts in my offices I shallhave very much pleasure in. going into theease; aild if anything can be done to assist

-that farmuer it certainly will be donie.lion. P. Collier: The office is the place to

-deal with sneb a ease; not thlis Chamlber.Hon. P. E. S. WILLMOTT (Honorary Min-

ister): That is so. The member. for Leeder-ville stated that the ease had never beenti-ought before mte. Thea ]how could he have-expected tle to deal with it? Thereupon the

hon.. member referred to prohibition. Itseems, to Inc that these would-be prohibi-'tionists are using the war to get their ownparticular way. They speak of "iwam--timne--prohibition,'' but they are really using the%var in order to get prohibition. In this'Chamber the liquor question im-s lnevecr beennmade a party question. On it, all Midsofpolitical opinion may, he observed sittingalongside or- opposite each other, .1. for onedo Object to these, shall I sayl fanlatics en--deavouring to nobble members of Parlia-nitent, aild bind thlem to vote irrespective

-of freedom of conscience. If these peoplereally wanit to do some good, let then, turn-their attenltion to the liquor as sold to-day,and if that liquor is harmful, lot them turntheir attention to reducing the strength of

-the ardent spirits and of some of the Wineshanded out to the public. As the memberfor Leederville has broughlt up the drink-question, let me touchl on a matter which hascaused some questions to be asked in thisHonse, and which has also received sonmenotice ill the Press. T refer to the hotellicenlse at Peremnjori. That l1ace, I may loe-tioll for tlle information of bon. miembersinnaware of its situation, is on the WonganHills railway between flallidu and Mullewa.'When that townsite was laid out, certain-blacks which were considered most suitablefor tile purpose were set aside for hotelsites.

Ho0n. P. Collier: State hotel sites.ll. F. E. S. WILLMOTT (Homnorary Mini-

ister): No; 1 do not think so.Ho,,. T. Walker: When were they set aside?Hon. P. E. S. WILLMOTT (Honorary Mini-

istemr) :When the townsite was surveyed.Hon. T. Walker: Yes, I k(now thmat; bnt

whlen? Was it when the Labour Govern-ment 'were in office?

The Premier: Yes.Hon. T. Walker: Thenm they were set

:aside for State hotel sites.Ho,,.F. E. S. WILLMOQTT (Honorary Minl-

ister) : It was done in 1916. Time went on,and the question of whether a State hlotelshould be built onl the block was referredto tile general mlanager of State hotels, who411 the 20th July, 1916, replied-

I have to inform you that there is nopr-ospect of a State hotel being erected oiltile area referred to, and I see no objectionto the lease being granted as set forth iiiparagraph one of your letter.

The lease referred to was not an hotel lease,but a lease granted to a certain lady undera section of the Land Act which permitsthat to be done-a lease under which shehad to remove any property of hers on thatblock, upon notice from the department,within three months. When this block wasset aside, it was set aside as being the bestllock within the to~vnsite for this particularpurpore.

Hol. T. WValker: Of a State hotel.

Hon. P. E. S. WILLMIOTT (Honor-ary Minjister): Not of a State hotel,but of all hotel. If lion, members willlook through the various plans of towna-sites, they will see onl each of them a blockset aside for anl hotel-not necessarily a Statehotel. Onl the 2.5th June, 1917, the roadsbocard wr-ote to the Government that anl hotelwas necessary in the district. That was thefirst intimation received by the Goverrnent.Next, a request came fromt a manl namedRobinson, whoever he may be. lie stated thathie wouldl like full informiation as to this par-ticular block, since in his opinlion thle town re-quired hotel accommodation. Then we havea letter froml the Fames and Settlers' As-sociation stating that an hotel was necessary.That letter was written on the 25th February,1.918, and the association wrote again on thle9th April. Following on these letters, andafter full inquiry, I reconmmended Cabinet onthe 19th April tllat this block should be thrownopenx for tilis particular purpose; and Cabinetapproved onl the 26th April. Thereupon thepeople interestedl, namlely, the roads board andthe Farmers' and Settlers' Association, werewritten to poiniting out the conditions underw-hich it was proposed to sell tlhe block by pub-lic auction. The block was advertised in the''Governiment Gazette'' and in the '"NorthenAdvertiser'' on the 27th and 31st July; andin the ''Northam Courier'' on the 26th Julyand the 2nd August. The ''Sunday Times''also had a notice ou the snhject, though Ilotan advertisement, during July. Thme questionhas been asked, in what papers were the ad-vertisemients published? All advertisementsare left to the discr-etion of an advertisingoffice,-, whmo inserts them in whatever papershe thinks fit. The matter is entirely uinderhis control. Certain conditions were im-posed on the sale of the block-that it beused only for hotel purposes; that an applica-tion for a license be made to the next lien~-sing court sitting after time sale; that thepremises be erected within 12, months fromthe date of sale. In mny opinion-and T conl-tend I have a perfect right to my opinion,just as other members hlave to theirs-thoseal-e good conditions. Let me tell thle Housewhy I consider them to be good conditions.Every' other title of this description is en-dorsed that no intoxicants may be sold on theland. ]But in the ease of a block sold forhotel purposes, the successful bidder at theauction, under the conditions here imposed],cannot trail around for an indefinite perioduntil he gets either a brewery or a financierto back him. Only those in a position toerect anl hotel, and of sufficiently good char-

[ASSEMBLY.]

aeter to obtain a license from a bench, wouldbe likely to bid. The successful bidder hasto go before the next sitting of the licensingconrt; that is to say, hie is bound to act al-

motimmediately: That is only reasonable,because, if an hotel is required, the sooner itis tip the better. Then, if the licensingbench approve of the application, the success-fi] bidder has to erect an hotel within 12months. As we all know, the licensing beachlare the onl 'y authority who ean grant alicense. As I stated in afiswering the ques-tions saked] by the member for Leederville,g consider it absolutely* wrong to try to in.fluence a beach in any way whatever. The'block here in question was put uip, and wassold to MNessrs. Connor and A. L. Johnston,whoever they may he. on the 3rd August atNorthan,. These b)ought it as teants in com-mon. I have since learnt that Mr. Connor isa farmer in the district. Mr. Johnston, I tin-derstand, is at the Front.

The Premier: I do not think so.Hon. F. E. S. WJLLMOTT (Honorary Min-

later): T was informed to-dayv that Mr. .Tohn-ston is at the Front, and that hie appli edthrough his attorney under power.

Hon. T. Walker: H{ow did he get bold ofConnor?* on. P. E. S. WVILLMOTT (Honorary Min-

ister): I have not the faintest idea. I knownothing more than T am telling the House. Apublic officer wrote to the Commissioner ofPolice on the 2nd September regarding op-position to the license, and it wotild appearfrom the statement in the Press that theCommissioner instructed his officer not tooppose: I will read the letter to the House-

To the Commissioner of Police, Perth. RePerenjori lot 9: I am informed that an ap-plication is being miade to the LicensingCourt at Moora this week for a license overthe above lot, and that your local inspectorhas instructions to oppose the application. Itherefore beg to advise you that this lotwas, after inquiries had been made by theGovernment, and it being satisfied that anhotel was required at this centre pitt tip forauction on the 3rd nlt., at the upset priceof £1.00 subject to the following condi-tions:

The conditions are then given, and then fol-lows the second paragraph of the letter-

I shall therefore be glad if you will instructyour local inspector in the circumstancesthat as the purchaser is only complying withthe ternms of approval it would be incon-sistent on the part of the Government forany opposition to be put forward.Hon. P. Collier: Who signed that letter?Rion. P. F. S. WTLLMFOTT (Honorary

Ministei-) :There are initials at the foot ofthe letter which I could not make out, but Ihave made inquiries and have found that theinitials are those of Mr. Morris.

lion. P?. Collier: flow did Mr. Morris knowthat the inspector had been instructed to op-pose the application as stated in the letter?

Hon. F. E. S. WTLLMOTT (HonoraryMinister) : .1 do not kntow. I knew nothingwhatever about this matter. As hion. membersopposite knowy, the Minister is not made ac-

qUainted with every letter that goes out of theoffice. It would be absurd to expect that. Themember for teederville said that the Ministeridhould be familiar with everything whichtakes place in the office.

Hlon. P. Collie,-: I have never known anofficer to send out a letter of such importancewithout getting the approval of the Ministerfirst.

Hon. P. E1. S. WJLLMOTT (HonoraryMinister) : I entirely agree with the leader ofthe Opposition that that letter should neverhave been sent. When I saw~ the letter on the10th I pointed out that the department couldnot instruct the police.

- 1-on. T. Walker: Mr. Morris knows that.Hon. W. C. Angwin: There is no more

careful officer in the department, but lie musthare been acting under instructions.

Hon,. T'. Waflker:. That induces me to be-lieve that there is something which we havenot been told.

Hon. P. E. S. WILLMOTT (HonoraryMinister) : Fromt my knowledge of Mr. MiorrisI (10 not think he would attempt to do any-thing underhand. He is a most reliable officer.

Hon. T. Walker: And experienced.Ho,,. F. E, S. WTIL-LMOTT (Honorary

Minister) : Reliable and experienced both.This is the first time anything has ever comeunder my notice from that officer which is notas it should be. The following explanationhas been written by the Under Secretary, Mr.H. S. King-

I note your wishes of the 10th inst. Carewill be taken in the future to avoid anysemblance of giving an instruction whichwas not intended in this ease. Cabinet de-cided that an hotel was necessary, and asit was not proposed to erect a State hotel,a hotel site was thrown open undler certainconditions. Before the Licensing Court satthe purchasers called and said that the in-spector of police at Northamn had informedthem that hie had general instructions tooppose any license being granted, and askedwhether I would advise the Commissioner ofPolice as to the conditions attached to thesale of the land. I promised to do this, andsaid it would be far the Commissioner ofPolice to issue what instructions he thoughtfit. Paiagraphi 2 of the minute was unfor-tunately worded, but no doubt the Commis-siner of Police took it as it was intended,as he would know that this departnment hasno power to give him instructions in easesof this kind. I presume the general instruc-tions given to the police to oppose all li-censes were given when it "-as the policy toerect State hotels wherever possible, bnt asthat policy has changed it might have beenthought that. the instructions had been re-vised.

Would the leader of the Opposition, who wasMinister in control of the Mines Departmentwhen Mr. King was Under Secretary there,believe for a moment that that officer wascapable of being squeezed or influenced in anyway?

Eon. P. Collier: No, but I never knew Mr.King to write such a letter dealing with amatter of that description without my auth-ority.

[12 SEPTEMBE, 11)] 319

IHon.. *F. E. S. WVTLLMOTT (HonoraryIfinister) : 3'r. King did not w'rite the letter;-and. as he states in his own letter it was animproper one.

Horn P. Collier: Did the people call on Mr.King or 'Mr. Morris? The letter does not say.

Hion. F. E. S. WILLMOTT. (Honorary'Minister) :I dto not know.

Hon. P. Collier: Was it Mfr. Counnor who-called, or was it the other man, or who was it-called o'i their behalfT

Hon. F. E. S. WITLMOTT (HonoraryMinister) : I do not know. The other mnin.could] not have called because lie is out of the:State.-

Hon. W. C. Angwin: Are yon quite snre-the other man could not have called?

Bion. F. E. - S. WTLL-MOTT (HonoraryMinister) : All I can say is that so far as theremarks that have been made about this busi-riess are concerned, there has not been ay--thing underhand or wrong, with the exception-of the second paragraph of the letter.

Hon. P. Collier: The matter certainly callsfor inquiry. .WhMT

Hon. F. E. S. WILOT (HonoraryMinister): I might have thought that in.fluence had been brought to bear, but knowingMr. Mforris as T do, and as hon. members'know him, they will agree with hue when I saythat lie is aboive suspicion.

Hon. T. Walker:, Mr. Morris -would neverwrite a letter like that without pressure being'brought to bear on him.

Hon. P. E. S. WILLMOTT (Honiorary Ifin.ister) : Does the halt. member wish to implythat T brought pressure to bear? Let us get-down to facts.

Hon,. T. Walker: T wish I knew the facts.*There are facts that wanft disclosing in~ con-neetlo,, with this matter. .

Hon. P. Collier: Mfr. Morris would niever'write it merely on the calling of Loftus Coninor.'Someone else must have brought pressure to-bear on hi,,.

Hon. F. E. S. 'WWLTJMOTT (Honorary Mi,,-ister): Does the hon. memher wish to imply-that T brought nressure to beam onl him?

Hon. T. Walker: We do not think vou did,but we do think there has been pressure.

Ilon. P. E. S. WOILLMfOTT (Hfonorary Mim-ister): There has been a slur east on Inc. Ithas been said by -ny of innue,,dlo that -Mr.Morris, a gentlenman who is eintitled to everyrespect, and who is above suspicion so far ashis honesty is concerned, has hadl plesure,brought to bear on bin,. And it is left oil theminds of the public that that pressure musthave beem, applied by the Honorary Mfinister in'control. I deny any such imputation, no liat-'ter who makes it. I am not accusing anyoneof having made it. because it has been clone'by way of innuendo.

Ho,,. T. Walker: You are putting the call,oii now.* Hor. F. E. S. WWfLLMOTT (Honorary Min,.ister) : Let us be open and above hoard. Tam prepared to get to the bottom of this. Tdid not know that the letter, which was datedthe 2nd September, had been written umntil Isaw it in the Press on the 10th.

Hon. P. Collier: I think it would be well ifyou "-ere to lea,-, from 'Mr. 'Mor-is who called

on him, and who reported to him that thispolice were going to Ompose the, license.

Ho,,. P. F. S. WILLMOTT (Honorary Min-ister): That wvill be done. -

Hon. T. Walker: It should have been donebefore. -

Hoail. F. E. S. W[LLXLOTT (Honorary Min-ister) : How could it, when I did not see theletter until the Inch. I cour-t every publicityin this nmatter. It seems to be absurd that ifCabinet should approve of land being sold forhotel purposes, and that if the purchaserapplies to the Licensing ench for his license,that the police should step in and oppose it.It is not fair that the onus should be thrownon the shoulders of the Minister for Lands todecide first of all whether a hotel is necessaryor imot. Surely this is a mnatter for the Licens-ing Bench. Unfortunately, as in the case ofAjana, I found on going through the file thata section of the community were strongly infavour of a hotel, while another section werestrongly Opposed to it. I said that under thosecircum~stancee I would not be prepared to makethe land available for a hotel, at any rate untilI got a further expression of opinionl. Theapplicant worried me considerably. I. said no,and added that on the evidence the people hindnot made up their minds. That ,,an applied tothe Licensing Bench, and the bench stated thatthey could not entertain the application be-cause the mai, had no land. Ho,,. members willat once see the position. If the Minister forLands does not mnake land available it is use-less to get a,, expressionl of opinion fronm thebench as to whether a license is necessary or,,ot. It is thro~ving the onus onl the MIinisterto make up his mind as to whether it is neces-sary that a hotel should] be built. That is notfair. One can only go on the w'eight of evi-dence. Certain land is made available, and thesuccessful bidder then goes to the LicensingBench ad the bench may in their wisdom,on the weight of evidence, turn down, theapplication.

lion. W. C. Angwin : You iade land avail-able at Ajana..

Hoa,. F. E. S. Whl.LMOTT (Honorary Min-ister) : No.

Hoil. W. C. Angwin: The land has been sold.Hon. hi. E. S. WNJLLMOTT (Honorary Mimn-

ister) : There is an endorsement on every deedthat liquor shall not be sold on that lanid.

lion. P. Collier : It call be lifted.Hon. P'. E. S. WlI-LMIOTT (Honorary Mi,,-

ister) : Only with the approvall of Cabinet,but it has unever yet been lifted, anvl it is neverlikely to be when, we know that in every towncertain, blocks have been set aside for hotelpurposes, aumd that on those blocks only canlhotels he erected. Therefore, so far ns Ajaia'is concerned, n,,til Cabinet decides that a hotel'is necessary there, and] makes the land avail-able, nobody can erect a hotel, even, if theyget a license fi-om, the beach, which they cam,-not do because they have not the land. Letme point out another absurdity. If we do0 nlotmake the land available and the bench con-sider that a hotel is necessary, what do we find-takes place? A man residing three-quarters ofa mile from the townsite having a -freehold

[ASSEMBLY.]

lot, can go to the bench and apply for alicense.

Hon, P. Collier: Has that ever been done?Hon. F. E. S. WIISLMOTT (Honorary Man-

ister): Yes, and a liceus6 has been approvedand the nitan has built a hotel on his freeholdproperty outside the towusite. Hon, memberswill agree with tue that such a thing is notdesirable.

Hon. P. Collier: Where has that been dlone?Hon. F. E, S. WILLIMOTT (Honorary Mini-

ister): It has been done. I am not going tosay where, I* think the timec has come whenthe licensing bench should have power to say'that they will gratit a license to a suitableapplicant.. That would then be an indica-tion. to the Minister to throw open certainland in the town for hotel purposes. But it iswrong to lay upon the Minister the onus ofsaying whether a hotel is necessary. Not-Withstanding any light that I mny have beenable to throw upon this subject of the Peren-joni hotel, I think hon. members Should beafforded an opportunity of perusing the file.Just now I would not be in order in layingit on the Table, but when the proper tim~earrives T. will miove that the file be laid uponthe Table.

Mfr. SPEAKER: fins the lion. memiberquoted from that fileq

Hion. P. E. S. W1IiLMOTT (Honorary Min-later): I have.

Mir. SPEAKER: Then there is no objectionto its being laid on the Table?

Hton. F. E. S. WILMNOTT (Honorary Miin-ister): Well, I now lay it on the Table forthe information of lion. members. Let merepeat that for my own part I do not carewhat people Say. Tf one has a clean Con-science it matters little tow ]nuch mud peo-ple may throw. In respect of Mr. Morris, theofficer Concerned, I repeat that, having knownhim for many years, I am certain that noundue influence was brought to bear uponhim. I consider him to be above suspicion.

Hron. T. WALKER (Kanowna) [4.17 l).m.]At this late stage of the debate I will not goover the ground which it was my original in-tention to cover. Tn respect to a number ofthe criticisms made, I endorse what has beensaid, but of course I cannot endorse the Con-fidene 'which has been expressed in Minis-ters. Nor can I endorse what has been saidby our friend the Minister for Industries. Ithink he is not encouraging, not fostering,not really snpporting, secondary industries.He is playing with them. We are all in favourof secondary industries, in favour of work forour people, in favour of the distribution ofwngdis among them. T question whether theMinister is doing a single thing towards that,end; rather in some instances is he destroyingit. Tnkq his work in connection with theState nurser 'y at H-amiell. Not very long agoa letter appeared in the newspaper in thisform-

On Satturday Inst a statement re theabove-

That is, the retail nursery trade. The lettercontinuoe-

apnpearedl in your paper from the AttorneyGeneral. As some of his statements are

grossly misleading, I trust you will allowme a small space in which to reply on be-half of the nurserymen. In June, 1917, he.made a statement to the Press that he hadgiven instructions that no more shrubs orhedge plants should be grown. I desire topoint out that the only hedge plants grownto any extent at the State nursery pre-viously were Pittosporumn and-

The word here is blurred, is not legible) butit refers to nother plant. The letter Con-tinues--

These are still growing, and thle lattervariety more extensively now than pre-viously. Will Hr. Robinson state the varie-ties of hiedge plants which the State nur-sery produced previously and which hehais prohibited from being grown now. Idesire to ask Mr. Robinson two questions:(1) Did hie, when contesting the Canningelectorate with Mr. Seaddan, state that hiewas totally opposed to State retail traderbelieving that private enterprise was bestfor the indlividual and the State. (2) Hasthe State nursery under his administrationcommenced the retail sale of plants andtrees, and issued a detailed retail price-listunder the name of the Forestry Depart-nient of W~estern Australia, offering theseplants and trees for sale to the public. Ichallenge him to answer either question inthe negative. I do not at present desire tofollow the other statements. His fiumalthreat that this retail trading concernwhich he has Commenced Will Continue toexist, does not trouble the nurserymenmuch.

This was signed by GT. H. Wilson, Secretaryto the Nurserymen's Association, Barrack-street, Perth. In addition we hare the Min-ister's published1 list of prices, under-cuttingthe nurseries in and around Perth and in theState generally; uinder-cutting men who areemploying workers. My objection is that theMinister, with his retail business, is cuttinginto those who are employing men, that he ischarging for these plants, yet not employingthe same number of men as the private nur-series. In other words there is no consis-tency, no guidance by rule or principle inthe attitude taken Lip by the Minister forIndustries in respect of this work at the State,nursery. And all his utterances in like mnea-Sure aire merel 'y tinkering with big questions.There is no earnestness about the ship-build-ing proposal. no earnest endeavolur to startsecondary industries. He is only playingwith a. big problem. Limelight, advertisement,palaces in the air-they arc all after thestyle of the South Perth bridges. They al:lure the eye atnd attract the attention, butthey do no permanent good to the country. T'had intended to go intp) this matter at le ngth,hut the debate is so well worn that I do notmarvel at the ywsand groans and exhibi-tions of exhaustion on the part of the Minis-ter for Works. T have not much to say tothe Minister for Works, but he does not atnll contribute either to keeping the debatealive or to keeping me intent upon my, sub-ject. After his heroics the other night, whenone would have imagined that hie was; the

[12 SEPTEMBEa, 1918.]

Colossus of the Ministry, when lie patronisedall his colleagues, patted them on the backeven to the apportionment of praise, mea-sured their excell ences by th e degree to whichthey fell into line with his self-appreciationand his magnification of himself, I shouldhave hoped after lie had endeavouired to be-little such men as the member for Perth thatlie would set an excellent example to bothsides of the House ini his behaviour in hisplace, and endeavour to preserve the dignityof Parliament and the placidity of the de-bate. However, .I am diiappointed with thehow. member, as on many previous occasions.What I desire to deal with now is the wayin which the Espernce district is treated.Notwithstanding the promises of assistancefor the establishment of a bacon factory atGrass Patch with, perhaps, another at Esper-nice, the intimation given to the whole ofthe public of the State is that Esperalice isa tabooed district. _No new settlers go there.The assistance given to other parts of theState is not to be given to tile settlers in tileEsperance district. And even in the purchaseof their wheat-and in this respect I sup-pose we must be thankful to the Ministerfor Industries for having said something onthetir behalf-even in that they are only toreceive some little encouragement at Esper-ance itself fid at Norsenman,

The Attorney General: That, sulrely, Wasgenuine.

Hon. T. WALKCER: I anm not denying thatit was genuine as far as it went, but it wasnot whole-hearted, it was little. They shouldbe treated exactly on a par with other set-tlers in other parts of the State. That dis-trict is too large and too important to thefuture of the State to be treated with theuitter neglect with Which it has been treatedby the present Government. I shall haveoccasion to retuirn to the subject at a laterdate, so for the present I will not weary theAssembly by dealing with it further.

Mr. Maley: You ought to advocate separa-tion for that province.

Hon. T. WALKER1: I think we ought togo in for separation all over the State. Butdecidedly that big district might as well beseparated, a district capable of providinghomes for thousands might a6 well be theother side of South Australia for all that thepresent Ministry care about it. They areignoring it and doing all they can to pre-vent its development. Yet it is as service-able a part of the State as are those portionsparticularly favoured by lavish expenditureof the Government. Some districts get All.the assistance they ask for, while Esperanceis deliberately told that it shall receive -none.I particularly want now to deal with that ex-traordinary tnethod of land administrationwhich we have heard explained this after-noon by the Honorary Minister. I do notthink we hare ever had the experience oflistening to such a lame, contradictoryapology for Ministerial ineptitude and ignor-ance as that which we have heard fromt theHonorary Minister this afternoon. Hfere isa n who tells uts that things of the mostmomentous character are happening in hisown depairtment, and lie says lie knows noth-

ing of theml. Does be not know that Iofficers are running the country as well as iLauds Department, not only the Lands Ipertinent, but the Police Departmlent, anot onlly the Police Department but arediretly running the Attorney General'spairtment?

The Attorney General: Oht no, they do acHon. T. WALKER: What about the lice

ing benches and the Magistrates who counder the purview of the Attorney GenerHere we have the spectacle of magistrates 1lag in effect directed as to how they 'shact in the administration of justice in tlicourts. There is not a word of condeinnatfront the Attorney General or his departmeWe have never heard of such an attemptdeliberately direct the decisions of maitrates, as we have ill this particular ease.is one of the most delicate matters in1world to interfere in the administrationa Police Court case, but to deal with a aatrato in a licensing court, to giv 'e practidirections, for that is what this anmounts to,a police magistrate is an interference wjustice that should make the blood stirthe veins of the Attorney General, and caihim to insist upon more than the limpplanation we have heard from the HonoriMinister (Hon. P. E. S. Willmnott) this aflnoon. This only shows the state into whthe Government have fallen. 'Any Miniscan do as he likes, or can do nothing atif hie likes, and the others are perfectly etent to drift on. The truth is that we h1tlost all responsibility in Parliamentary G.erinment. We bave a I Igo-as-you-pleasMinistry, and we could not have a betteramiple of this than in the conduct ofHonorary Minister ifl connectionl with ttransaction. Let uis review it. There hibeen, in all the townships opened uip by agcultural development in this State, blo,reserved for the purpose of State hotels,in order to prevent the indliscriminate issuelicenses. That has been the policy of the Ias laid down by Act of Parliament, backedend directed by the vote of the people.people have said, "We will not have antcrease of licenses,'' and in order thattdirection from the people may be carriedGovernulents in the past liare said, "In Iing out townships we will reserve in each toiship somle particular block suitable for a Sthotel."I

Mr. Pickering: Is that so?Ron. T. WALKER: It is so.Mr. Pickering: I thought that an appli

tion could be mnade by a pirivate. individutala license if it was outside a radius of 15 at]form an existing license.

Mr. 0 'Loghlen: What dlid the referendindicateI

Eon. T. WALKER: If a new goldield,15 miles away fromn an existing license,quires hotel accomumodation for travellerssso forth, it is permissible that such a lice:should be granted. We are now speakingdeliberately laid out agricultural townshiand of those laid out by the Crown underleasehold principle. Tnt every instance we h:reserved to the Crown for the purpose ofState hotel a block or two in the best posit

[ASSEMBLY.]

for such purpose. This has been done in ac-eordance with the instructions of the peoplewho have sai that there shall be no new Ii-cenkses, or if 'there be any that they shall beState Icenses. It now appears that in thisplace the Lands Department has been askedfor leave to have a hotel there. If the truthwere to be told here to-night, hon. memberswould know that there was not a townshipanywhere but has had a similar request to ten-der. In every part of the State those anxiousto make mioney by means of a license haveasked that a hotel should he permitted in theseplaces. The peculiarity of this particular spotis that someone, not the rends board or eventhe farmers and settlers has particularlymoved the Lands Department to act as it hasdone.

Mr. Troy: Probably sonic member of Par-lianient.

Ren. T. WALKER: There are some mieni-bers of Parliament who belong to the Farm-,rs and Settlers' Association.

Mio Pickering: There is nothing to beishamed of in that.

Hon. T. WALKER: The hon. membernight to be proud of it. A genuine farmerLnd a genuine settler are indeed somnething to)e proud of. I want to know what was the)ower that was able to torn adrift the commonectitude of the Lands Department. Whatiower was it that turned the heads of somie oflhe most staid officers of that department9Hen. P. Collier: The Honorary Minister

iisrepresentedI thle whole position. Tt was M.Nr.:ing who gave the instructions and not Mrt.ferris. They said they called upon Mr. Kingrid he promised to do it.Hon. T. WALKER: That is what T object

Heon. P. Collier: The Mfinister id not mfen-on the Under Secretary.Hon. T. W.ALKER: Here is a minute ad-

ressed to "The H~on. M.Witllmott,'' and itI as follows--

I note your wishes of the 10th inst., andcare will be taken in future to avoid anyseniblance of giving instructions which werenot intended in this case. Cabinet decidedon evidence submitted by you that an hotelwas necessary, and as it was not proposedto erect a State hotel the hotel site wasthrown open under certain conditions, Be-fore the licensing court sat the purchaserscalled and said the inspector of police at'Yortin had inforned them that hie hadgeneral instructions to oppose any licensebeing granted, andI asked whether I wouldadvise the Commissioner of Police as to theconditions attached to the sale of thle land.lie minute said that 14I would advise the)inamissioner of Police.''lion. P. Collier: There you are.Ilon. T. WALKER: The minute proceeds--

I -promised to do this, but said it wouldbe for the Commissioner to issue what in-structions hie thought fit. Paragraph 2 ofthe minute was unfortunately worded, butno d1oubt the Cemmissioner of Police took itas it was intended, as he would know thatthis department had -no power to give in-structions in cases of this kind. I presume

the general instruction issued to the inspec-tor of police to oppose any license was givenwhen it was the policy to erect State hotelswherever possible, but as the policy waschanged it might be thought that the in-structionis might have been revised. Signed,H. S. King.lion. P. Collier: 'It is the Under Secretary

and] not Mr. 'Morris. The Minister representedit as if it was Mr. Morris.

Mr., Pickering: There is another minuteto which the 'Minister referred.

lion. P. Collier: The Under Secretary takesthe responsibility. They called upon him.

The Attorney General: These are the con-ditions oif thle lease.

H-on. T. WALKER: Here is a letter ad-dressed to ''Tne Hon. M1r. Williuott" by Mr.lng who says-

Before the Licensing Court sat the pur-chasers called sand said that the Inspectorof Police at Northain had informed themthat he had general instructions to opposeany license being granted, and] asked whetherI would adIvise the Conunissioner of Policeas to the conditions attached to the sale ofthe land.The Attorney General: Precisely.Hun. P. Collier: Of course.Hon. T. WALKER: it will be observed

that he says, "'I-promised. I'The Attorney General: You read in a very

low voice the thing that he didi promise.Ron. P. Collier: That he would instruct the

police?The Attorney General: 'No.

Tion. P. Collier: -There is no other construc-tion to be placed upon it.

The Attorney General: That he would ad-vise the Conmmissioner of Police as to the con-ditions under which the land was sold.

li-on. P. Collier: That is what the M1iniistersaid that MAr. Mforris did.

The Attorney General: 'No, M%-r. Miorris wentbeyondl that.

Hon. P. Collier: 'No such tiling.Thu Attorney General: Mfr. Morris's letter

goes beyond that.I-Iou. P, Collier: He mlust have had his in-

structions. What is time use of trying towriggle out?

The Attorney General: I ami not doing thewriggling.

H~on, T. "WALK,.ER: This complicates theposition still more. I could understand theMinister niot having a strict sense of the ex-actitude of speech, and making all kinds ofblundler-s, and T can understand him even de-siring to screen thle Under Secretary, and tothrow thle blame upon Mr. Mforris, and thentrying to throw the blame off him, but I can-not understand the Attorney General-

The Attorney General: Rend both docu-mlenits. They speak for themselves..Hon. T,' WALKER: Will you pardon me,

Sir, if I read this paragraph again?MTr. SPEAKER: Very well.Hon, T. WALKER: I desire to show the

House that it is not I who aml trying toshuffle, but that it is the Attorney General. Iwill readl again 'Mr. King's letter-

'Before the Licensing Court sat the pur-chasers calledi-

[12 SEPTEMBEMR, 1918.) ,

Hion. P. Collier: Upon Air. King.Rati. T. WALKER. It continues-and said the Inspector of' Police at Nor-thami bid informed them;--

That is, the purchasers-that he--

That- is, the inspector-had genersl instructions to oppose any li-cease being granted, and asked whether I-

That is, the writer--n-ould advise the Commissioner of Police asto the conditions attached to the sale of theland.

I will read this louder if the Attorney Gen-eral desires.

I promised to do this, and said it would befor the Commissioner to issue what instruc-tions he thought fit. Paragraph 2 of theminute was unfortunately worded, but nodoubt the Commissioner of Police took itas it wvas intendled, as he would] know thatthis department had no power to give in.structious in eases of this kind.Mr. Pickering: Whiat is that paragraph 29Hon. T. WALKER: Paragraph 2 reads as

follows:-I shall, therefore, be glad if you will in-

struct your liquor inspector, in the circuni-stances, that as the purchaser is onclycomplying with the terms of approval, itwould be inconsistent on the part of theGovernment for any opposition to be putforward.Mr. Pickering: Whose minute was that?lion. T. WALKER: The Under Secretary

for Lands.Honi. F. E. S. Willnott (Honorary Minis-

ter) : Morris.Hon. T. WALKER: Let us not obscure the

fact of how the matter stands. We have thewhole thing here. They, the purchasers, calledon King; you cannot get behind that; Kingreceives them-the Under Secretary receivesthem-they discuss the matter and they askhim, sing, if they cannot write a letter to theCommissioner of Police. He proniised he wouldwrite to the Commissioner of Police. TIhat isthe promise of King. N\ow, then: if Morriswrote that letter lie wrote to ffilf a promiseby King, the 'Under Secretary. There is noquestion about that. What does that revealto us!

Mr. Pickering: You blamed Morris.Hon. P. Collier: I dlid not; I. said it was

his signature.-Hon. T. WALKER.- It is putting it upon

Morris. I said from what I knew of 'Morrishie would not write such a, letter as I -havequoted wvithout instructions, and strong instruc-tions.

Mr. Pickering: The leader of the Oppo-sition asked the Minister whose was the signa-ture, and he said hie couild not make !it out.

lion. P. Collier: Tell that kind of thing tochildren.

Hon. T. WALKER:- Do not waste our tineover little things like that. Get to the facts.,Who received the depuitation? The UnderSecretary of the Lands Department. Who,therefore, promised to write to the Commis-loner? The Under Secretary of the 'Lands-Department. Whoever wrote the letter, wrote

in fulfilment of that promise, and then the axwho is carrying out the promise is loaded witithe dishoniour or shame, or auLythiag you likito call it.

Hon. F. .E. S. WijLinott (Hoporary Minister): There is no dishonouir or shame..

Hon. T. WAIACER: There is.Hon. F. E. S. Williott (Honorary Minis

ter): There is not.Hon. T. WALKER: There is no mistake ii

conduct of this kind. It is an absolute violation of every rule of the Lands Departmentand every other department.

.Hon. P. Collier: It is a subterfuge.Hon. T, WALKER: I say it-is more tha

a simple mistake. It is one of the things hcould not make a mistake upon. He could ncpossibly do such a thing. He is an old, e3perienced, honourable. officer and hie could ucdo it without strong instructions, without dire(tions from some superior that hie must abe;He got the superior, the Under Secretary fcLands.

Hon. F. E. S. Wiflmott (Honorary Mini!tar): The lender of the Opposition asked aEwhose signature it was. I said I did not knobut would teke the trouble to find out, nMr. Morris said it n-as his signatunt. TIleader of the Opposition said it was a subtefuge.

Hon. T. WALKER: Let us se what tlimeans. If anything condemns a Goveramenthis kind of conduct does. It means thatwas done behind the back of Ministers iviknew nothing about it, who do not know tIfacts to this day, beeause'after the matterquestioned in the House the Minister canntell us who the purchasers were. Whio calhon the Under Secretary!

Hon. F. E. S. Willmott (Honorary Miniter) : The purchasers.

Hon. T. WALKER: Does he know who tliqare9

Hon. F. E. S. Wilimott (Honorary Miniter) : If he said they did, his word is goienough for me. If he said ''the purchasers,they called.

lion. T. WALKER: Who were they?"they'' may be their agent or agents, w]called? Who were ''they"? What were thEnamies? However, these people called akiapparently, without submitting it to the M\inter, the Under Secretary undertakes to mUtfera with another department.

The Premier: How did you know anybo(called? Does the minute say so?

Hon. T. WALKER: He has just woke "1lYes. It could not have been A. L. Johnstqif lie is at tile Front. Somebody else must hacalled. 'Who did calli Tis is the point.- THonorary Minister has not made inquiries ithat vital part of this file.

Hon. F. E. S. Willmott (Honorary Min'ter): It was the first time I saw it.

H-on. T. WALKER: Has he got an explartion beyond the letter I have read from Kinj

Hon. F. E. S. Willmott (Honorary Minter). I have not.

Hon. T. WALKER.: Did the letter fit]satisfy him?

Hon. F, E, S. Willmott (Honorary intor) : What letter?

[ASSEMBLY.)

Hon. T. WALKER: King's minute. Is thatperfectly satisfactory?

Hon. F. E. S. Willmott (Honorary Minis-ter): Certainly not.

Hon. T. WALKER: Why not have gone tothe root of thing so as to inform the House?

Hon. R. E. . Willmnott (Honorary Minis-ter): ]nquiries are now being made.

Hon. T. WALKER: A matter of vital irn-portance"Nlike that, It does not take two min-utes to make inquiries.. "Now being made'"--always that answer. I want them made, andany Minister who is attentive to hisreal, duties,, of what is due to theHouse, would have mnade inquiries aboutit in less titan five minutes. Thereis no good going the whole world oversearching for a matter of that kind; contentto leave it to some other department beforemnaking inquiries. His chkief officer, the -Undergeeretary, takes upon himself to assure thelepartusent. What deputation was this, thatie should step from his lofty height as guardian)f the interests of the Lands Department,.)romising to interfere with the administrationif ether departments? What was the personalflement of these purchasers, or agents, or chain-inons, that would take a man of King's ex-)erienee out of his usual pathway to say, "'Inhil undertake to wrt"

Hon. F. E. S. Willmiott (Honorary M1inis-er): The only manl who could talk him overiculd be the member for Kanon-na.

Hon. T. WALKER: We see the mnarvels ofdministration. The Minister knows nothingbout it.

Hon. F, E. S. Willnmott (Honorary Mnser): -Row canl I q

Hon. T. WALKER: I suppose because youare not etnough brains. I ani saying what islie mere fact, if the member wvill listen. TheSinister knows nothing about it.

Hon. F. E. S. Willmott (Honorary Minis-er):- That is a fact.

Hon. T. WALKER: But these ilic, whoeverhey were, these mysterious characters who:ailed on him, hand power to direct that officero go right out of his own department to inter-ere in the admiaistratiou of justice of the

tet-. Who are ''they''? What position ini theoiumnunity do they hold? Evidently they dareaot go to the Miijster.- They go to King ande, who is not a Minister, over the head of thelinister, in the MAinister's complete ignorance,_astructs the police. Anid not only does lieastruct the police, but I wanlt to know who isircetly responsible for the wording of theonditions on the back of the title. Who framedIhist set of conditions?Hon. F. .E. S. Wlilmott (Honorary M.Ninis-

Fer) - Thecy were submitted to tue and] Ipproved of them.lion. T. WALKER: Who were the mysteri-

us visitors who have more power than theTinister?Hon. F. E. S. Willmott (Honorary MXinis-

-r) : I could not because T have no brains,-cording to you.Hon. T. WVALKER: I believe you are he-

inning to realise that.Hon. P. E. S. Willmott (Honorary Mhinis-

ir): I am or I would not be sitting here.

Hon. T1. WALKER: The persons who in-structed the police are tltose who had somec-thing to do with the instructions to thepolice, possibly had something to do withthe wording of the set of conditions on theback of the title. Whoever heard of such athing? This is the worst kind of direction.

Hon. F. E. S. \Villmott (Honorary Minis-ter): You can blame me for it.

Hon. T. WALKER: I am blaming thehon. member for the whole lot, even of whathie is ignorant, because he aught to know.

Hon, P. R. S. Willmott (Honoraryr Minis-ter): What?

Honi. T. WALKER: Keep calmn. He oughtnot to allow it to be possible for such athing to occur in his department.

Honl. P. E. S. Willinott (Honorary Minis-ter): Nonsense 1

Hon. T. WALKER: Mfinisters not onlytorn upside down tile administration of theLands Department, because that is what itmeans, but lie pots conditions on the title.

Hon. F. N. S. WVillniott (Honorary Minis-ter): Governments have been endorsing thebacks of titles -Govern ment after Govern-mnent-with Various conditios-''Shall notsell intoxicants'" and things like that.

Hon. T. WALKER: One can possiblt4part with certain land under a contract thatit shall never be used for specific purposesdeleterious to the comuonity. But wherein the history of government is there to befound a direction that land shall be used forlicensed premises?

Honi. F. E. S. WVilliott. (Honorary Minis-tar): Frequentl.,

Hon. T. WALKER: But where?Hon. F, E. S. Willmeott. (Honorary Minis.

ter): In the case of every hotel block sold.Honi. T. WALKER: The hon. gentleman

can show nie not one instance of that.Hon. F. E. S. Wihlinott (Honorary Minis-

ter): Certainly I can.Hloj. T. WALKER: Never. HeT cannot do

it. What is the use of his talking?Mr. SPEAKER: Order! This cross-firing

niust cease.Hon. T. WALKER: Exhibitions of irri-

tation on the part of the Honorary -Ministerare not becoming. There is more thani that.It is not only that this mn dares, in theinlorane of the Honorary MXinister, to inter-fore with another department and with theaduilnistration of justice; but h le undertakesto framte a policy' for the Government; lieundertakes to decide what is the policy ofthe Coverninent; hie makes a policy for im-self. Observe this conclusion-

T presumie the general instructions is.sue0d to the inspector of police to opposeail licenses was given when it was the po-licy to erect State hotels wherever pos-sible. But as the policy has changed, itmight be that these instructions- h1ave beenrevised.

That is deciding a policy for the Govern-uiot-a tihing peculiarly within the provinceof the Minister-anul deciding it withoutprevious suibmission to the 'Minister in charge.That is the abnormality. The officer pre-

(12 STITEMBER, .1918.] 2

stames that one set of conditions obtained ata time when it was the policy to erect Statehotels, and then he assumes that the policyhas been changed. I have no information of.its being changed; there has been no an-nouneement of any change in policy. Butthe officer interprets the policy as changed,and says it might be that the instructionsmight be revised, and upon that he acts, andacts without the knowledge of his Minister.Have you, Sir, ever known such an outrageonl government? Where is government to befound if this kind of thing is possible? Wehave no government. We have anarchy inour departments. The Honorary Ministercomplacently puts it forward as an excusethat he dlid not know of it, that he was notaware of it. This enormity can be per-petrated. The Minister pretends now thatbe knows something in this respect, that hehad approved of these instructions, and thatthese instructions were in effect that alicense wras to be granted. It is no use his-trying to get out of that.

Hon. P. Collier: Hie Says that inl theletter.

Hon. T. WALKER: When the polic wereinformed of what they were to do in thismatter, the instructions were as follows:-

I shall, therefore, be glad if you will in-struct your local inspector in the circum-stances that as the purchaser is only corn-plying with the termis of the approval itwould be inconsistent on the part of theGovernment for any opposition to he putf or ward.

Here is what is actually happening. TheUnder Secretary is presumed to be the Gov-ment. The Lands Department are given in-structions onl the lease, and to oppose thelicense afterwards would be to oppose the in-structious given onl the lease. In order thatthe GoVermnen101t May be consistent, the policemrust be silent and offer no opinion. And thatkind of thing is possible in the Lands Depart-ment under the guidance of the present Minis-ter! N-\o wonder we see it stated in the Pressthat the counatry is absolutely going to anarchy,or going to the dogs. While that is going on,the Minister, who know or should have knownthat King was the responsible party allthrough, tells us, in answer to a question=-

A request wan improperly made to theComnmissioner of Police hy ant officer nf theLands Department, without the "knowledgeof the Honorary M-inister controlling theLands Department or the Minister in controlof the police. Thle matter is being fully in-vestigated.

Arid] to-day, in his speech to this Assembly, theHonorary M1-inister said that that officer wasMoris. We are absolutely at an end of ourconfidence; we canl trust nobody if such thingsarc possible, as the MNinister misleading theHouse. Whether the Minlister did it intention-aly or unintentionally, purposely or in direignorance, T care not: the samne effect is there-we are misled, we are deceived. King issuprecme, who presumes to direct. how thecourts of Justice shall be run and how thepolice shall act. I say there is room for fur-

ther inquiry. W'hether M1orris or somebodyelse wrote these inxutes, we want to inqu ireexactly who they were and what they said dusr-ing that interview. The files, so far as.1 havebeen able to discover, do not disclose uip to thepresent what persons are concealed uinder thegeneral teri ''purchasers.'' Does antyonemean to tell ile that an applicant for an hoteluip at, say, Trayning could comle in anid getKing to interfere 'with the Police Departmuent?Could a man fromt anly Other towusite in thisState go in to King non- and say, ''Will youplease give instructions to the police authori-ties not to oppose?''I

Hon. P. Collier- It is absurd.lNon. TP. VTAbKER. Why, King would very

quickly tell the ordinary Mlua to go about hisbusiness, if he did that. But these peoplewere uten of tuore significance, and umore in-fluence, and more importance, evidently.

The Minister for Works: Does not the filestate who it wras who called?

Hon. T. WALKER: No.Hon. P. Collier: The file simply says, ''The

purchasers. "Hon. T. WALKER: I have asked the Hon-

orary Minister to tell its who those personswere, He dloo niot know. He has not in-quired. Thle Minister for Works, I venture tosay would have made it his first business toinquire who they were.

The Minister for Works: On mny files youwill find the name of all callers.

Hon. T, WALKER: Undoubtedly. That isthe difference. Per business capacity I un-dertake to say not much :fault is to be foundwith the Mlinister for Works in the conductof his department.

Hon. P, Collier: 'He would know more aboutthis business anyhow.Hen. TP. WVALKER: lBnt here we have iiur

chasers'' covering' we know niot whomt.Honl. P. Collier: People who Cancii ove thle

Under Secretary for Lands to give instructionsto the police.

Hon. T. WALKER: Thle "purchasers" areof such importance that they canl set to workupon the Under Secretary for Lands to in-struct the Police Departmient how they shallact, and tbrat they can induce the Under Sere-tary to put upon the title issued a direction tothe magistrate who is to adjudieate. It is nonlso Saying that the decision is with thle magis-trate afterw.%rds. I say that endlorsement onthe title is a direct instruction to the ningis-irate. And '1r. Canining, who presided at theNoora court, felt it as ain offence, anfd comn-ineuted upon this strange conduct. It is veryhtunmiliating for a magistrate niot to hare to goout of his way, but to find it the nest naturalthing in the world, to flind fault wvith the Goy-emnent for framning this title with conditions.

HRonl. P. Collier: Conditions tying theuiAgistrntc 's h~ands.

Hoa. T. WALKER: Undoubtedly. _r niustcomplitment the magisterial body on haivinig atian like Catnig upon the bencli, with themoral pluck to point out anl absurdity and~enorinity of that kind pitt hefore himl in theconrse of his arln ziistratinOi of justice. Bitto think tltaqt such a thing is possible, andpossible onl the part of an Utnder Secretary

325

[ASSEMBLY.]

without consulting his Ministv', without theMinister's knowing anythihk about it! Rinitakes the responsibility, iii spite pf the Mii-ister, who tries to shuiffle it from King. Whenone writes a letter saying that it would be in-consistent for the Government to oppose, aftbrtheir instructions on the title, what room isthere for the magistrate to do as he thinksfit? H~e is obliged to follow those instructions.King takes the responsibility there. The Mini-later is trying to screen. him.

Hon. P. Collier: That is it.Hon. T. WALKER: I think there is room

for very serious protest. What is the countrycoming to, I want to know, when surnamed,unmentioned persons can call at the Landsoffice and set that office running about in otherdepartments, interfering with the AttorneyGeneral's department, in the case of themagistrate, by that absurd stipulntion upon.the title, interfering with the Colonial Sec-retary 's Department, ais to the conduct ofthe poliee withount consulting the Ministeror even the Coin mnissioner of Police? Thingsare coming to a fine pass. We do not knowwhat may happen any (lay. Who are the unf-mentioned persons referred to in this file?We ought to know.

Hon. P. Collier: They aire thle driving forcein the Lands Department.

I-on. T. WALK ER: If we Ihnve had y'oscandal of any mioment up to now in the his-tory of the government of this State, thisis a most niomnentous scanidal, a reeainofincapacity in government, and of influencein? Y will not say, high places, for we do uotknow how high they wore, but in some quar-ters. and evidence of mnis-government such aswouild cause any self-respecting Cabinet atonce, upon the exposure being made, to ad-mit their incapacity to continue, and to causethem at once to make room for those whowould know what was going on in the depart-mnents andi who would take to task officerswho presumed-4 to shnpe the policy of theGovernment and to direct the departments ofState not in the interests of justice hut infavour of interested parties.

Mr. FOLEY (Leonorn) [5.14 pinj) : Beforedealing with the few subjects I propose totouch upon, I desire to hav-c a few words re-garding the ease upon which the Last speakerhas commented. Uip to the present Austra-lian politics, leaving party politics altogetheraside, hav-e had the reputation of being, andhave in fact been, clean. But to my mindthis case might give ground for thikingthat politics are being dragged into the mud.I wish to make no charge against any Minis-ter, nor against any officer. I have listenedcarefull 'y to the member for Kanowna, andI think there is no man holding Ministerialoffice who ought to htold it very long, if hedoes nut probe this matter to the very bot-tom. I hope thle Honorary Minister will dothat. Tf hie does not, then I shall be one ofhis severest critics. There is another aspectof this question, the public servants of theState. In what position are they placed? Isit to be their duty or that of the Ministryto formulate n policy? Although not makingia charge against the offic-ial, if there has been

any influtencecused to make any offier in theeimployment of thle State take any actiodother than that hie would have taken in ordi-

naycircumstances, I contend that thatofficer sh 'ould not occupy very long t6e posthe holds. Another person about whom I:wvould like to comment is the individual whowould improperly use any power he mighthave above that of an ordinary citizen. Ifsuch power hns~ been used by anyone in aposition other than that of an ordinary elti--en, hie should be relegated to the place ofan ordinary citizen and hie should be reducedto thle level of the lowest rung of the ladderof citizenship. I believe. that an inquirywvili be held and every hon. member will wel-conlic it, and if it proves anything at all,. Iant sure lion, members will not forget thatthey are citizens of Western Australia andthat they wish to see that everything is donecleanly, not only in polities, but. in coanec-tionl With admninistration. Mfany' membershavec spoken with regard to the position inwhich the State finds itself at the presenttime. No matter what may be said to thecoutrury, the majority of public men aredeepl ,y concerned abont the state of thefinances. I amn very pleased to think thatT sat 1)ehind a Government a few 'years agowho spent mione *y in the direction of laying

agood deal of foundation work. But forthat, we would not now be in the fortunateposition in whichi we find ourselves. I be-lieve those millions of loan money were well

,spent. Of course, there might be some con-troversy as to whether the money was wiselyspent, but there is no doubt about the factthat thle expenditure laid the foundation ofprimary end( secondary industries, The otherStates which have had sinking funds havesuspended the payment of them, a perfectlylegal and justifiable action. But it is a bet-ter thing to My mind if a State can pullthrongh without suspending the payment ofits sinking fund. If we can manage thatat thle end of this year we shall have about£314,000 going towards the redemption ofour loans, which would not be thle ease ifwe suspended the payment. But if we areforced to susp~end the payment it should hetime duty of the Federal Government to stepin and tell the Ministry of this State thatthey will indemnnify7 Western Australiaagainst any loss in that regard. The ques-tion is as to how we can get out of our ex-isting position. After all, almost every por-tion of Australia is in a bad way, We aresuffering because We are not producing thesame wealth which the Eastern States fireproducing. There are white hopes in politicshere who believe in the one theme of retrench-ment, a theme tinder which they think every-thing can be dlone. Many of uis know whatretrenchment did for somec of the EasternStates, and that many people over there hadto put uip great battles just because a policyof retrenchment was adopted in place of ipolicy of good administration. Tn Victoria,in the richer parts of New South Wales andin Qu1ensland, the -very poverty of thoseStates led to thle establishment of an indus-try which iii later years brought great pros-

[12 SlEXTSMR, 191S.]82

pet-ity. I refer to the dairying industry. Inour owvi State 1 do not think we will everget dairying until the people are pushed intoit as was done in the other States.

[The Deputy Speaker took the Chair.]

lion. P. Collier: Wtiat helped to establishthe dairying industry in Victoria was thebonus system; it is against the Constitutionnow.

Mr, FOLEY: A few members in this Chamn-her have said that we should retrench. Inwhat direction are we going to retrench? Arewe going to retrench our educational etie-iesi-y! If so, we shall do an everlasting in-jusry to fture generations of this State. Itbhas been brought vividly home to us during-the past four years that educational effle-leney has played a very big part in the at-tempt to gain world supremacy. If we toohad not reached a simiflar stage of educationalefticieney, r refer to Great Britain and herAllies, we should never have been able tocombat that educational and scientific effic-iency which has helped our enemy to put upsuch a battle against us. Last session Ipointed out how the administrative costsmight he s-educed. 'We cannot compare thecost of education iii the country to that ofthe metropolitan area, and any member whohas been in any way responsible for thespread of educational facilities iM outbackcentres can rest assured that he has assistedlto do something that few of the other partsof Australia have done. I arn suire that nohost. member would wish to curtail educationin that way. So far as administration isconcerned, I shall have an opportunity ofsaving something when the Estimuates ircbrought down. I am going to see whetherany alteration has been made, and if therehas not been any change in the direction ofimprovements to effect a reduction of expen-diture, T shall not hesitate to offer criticism.So far as health is concerned, we can neitherecononhise nor retrench to any great extent.I think, however, that a better system of- ren-dering help can be adopted so far as thoseate cons-erned who are not able to afford medi-cal assistanco hy subsidising every hos0.pitalin the State under conditions similar to thoseadopted in connectioni with the hospitals whichare already subsidisedl. I do not wish to ap-pear parochial when I say that the systemn ofsubsidising has been a success in thle MoutMagnet district, in the district I represent,and in the district represented hr the in-her for Avon, as well as others. If the G~ov-ernnient had been obliged to take over thlewhole of these hospitals, they would have beenev-en mnore uip against it than they as-c at theptresent time. In many of the outback placeswhere people are far removed from the goodthings which the metropolis has to provide,married men are paying is. 3d. per weekfor medical facilities and hospital iteconm-modation for their wives and families.If everyvone wvere to pay this sum) therewouild be brought ahout a state of thingsthat would make. administration it healthmatters and the hospitals of the State a greatdeal easier than it is at the present time.

Mr. Davies: You believe iu uiationalisation.Mr. FOLEY: I believe that wouldl he the

first step towards the nationalisation of theseinstitutions. Where thme hospitals are sub-sidisedi, better treatment is afforded and theconditions generally are an isuprovemnt onthose which exist in thme metropolitanarea, When thle State is again affluent andcans provide these facilities in thle way thatI h~ave described,' we will find it will be pos-sible to save much muoney which can be spentin developmHent in other directions. With re-gard to economy, a good deal can he done.Hon. muemhers will no doubt have notietlthat economy is already being practised inninny of the offices. Jt will frequently beseen] that one mnin is now doing the workthat was done by two before, that a gooddeal of money has been saved in eon nectionwith the stationery which is used. But agood deal can yet be doiie in the mnetropolitanarea where in these stressfuil tines we shouldcarry out what obtains in the outbac-k cen-tres. 'rake the mhining registrars. TIhey' aredoing all the work that has to be done forthle Goverm-nnist as bet ween the people of thedistrict and the Government. That kind ofthing does not obtain to the samie extentin the metropolitan area, although al-terations have heel] miade with economyin view. I believe that even greatereconsomsics c-an still be effected. Rultin somie directions it is amotst impossibleto evonosniso to at greater extent than is lie.ing done ait present. When all is going wellwe do not require any friends, but wheni weare right uip against it we begin to look roundfor help. For a long time last I have be-lieved that the chemist is the mianl who isgoing to hselp this State out of its slillicul-ties. The chemist, the scientist, thle hma ufreseasrcs work; lie it is who will dlo morethan any other msan to hell) uis. But we arenot going to get thlat assistanci ' y retrens-ment. bky refusinig to Spend a 553-thing. Werequire to spend money to get the advaistageof that work. Later on I will asgain refer tothe sseeessitv for the work of the shemist inrertai indus~trieq, bir before rousing to thatI havc a few ordinary msatters to tous-h upon.Regarding production, we aire now producvingin man'-v direc-tions, and we require to pro-dInee in snore. 'Men is] the resuote parts ofthe State are being penalised for saving gosseout so far. If we had the 7rone system ofcharges Onl thle rilalwsvs it would lessen thlehsaudirnfs of thiose people outback. There isa ertain freight on goods going to Armadlale,a diStLnse of 20 nsls Rpos.e goods llsnVe tohe unloaded but onic. floods going to Run-buryv, more than foulr tulnes as for as Anina-dale, have to he uinloadel Only once, yet agreater charge is made upon thesi tian onthe goods to Arsuadale. Take inm*v own dis-trict, Leonora, or take Mreknthlnrrnt. If wehadl a 100-miles z-one system, in whichi a cer-tais irharge would be malde, we could then 'de.crease the charge if the distance was gre-tier,and so give the mulas away out bask a chanceof living under the saute Punslitinus lis tiopocloses in. The consuimer of the goods thathave to be hauled 600 miles is under :in uin-fair handicap as eomspared with those in the

827

328 [ASSEMBLY.]

metropolitan area. If we had the zone sys-tem the burden of thle railways would bespread in such a way as to catch that parti-cular section of the commiunity in the mietro-politan area wvlo make everything possibleout of the produce for which, after all, theyare only agents. In regard to the proposedthree railway commissioners, I have had anopportun~ity of making a few inquliries in theEast. I find that although we have only' oneConmmissioner, there are many offices in ourRailway Department wlhich have not beencreated in the East. In Victoria the CeneralTraffic -Manager is one of the Commissioners.as is also the manl who looks after the loco.department. If we arc to have three eom-,nissioners, let us put in three good railwaymen, We shall then get better results thanwe have had up to the present. But if weare going to appoint three commissioners ontopl of the present expenditure on railwaywork, it will be bad business indeed. Re-garding the sanatorium at Wooroloo, let triesay that I know the conditions under whichthes men onl the goldfields live and work. Iknow the ravages of mniners' complaint. Inmy- opinion we can never do too much] forthe men who have to live the few remainingyears of their lives in such conditions as thosemen experience. When the Bill for the es-tablishnient of the sanatorium at Wooroloowas under discassion, r" gave it every' consid.eration. I do not think that institution hasyet hadl an opportunity of proving its fill]value. T hope) the Gove-rnmnt will seriouslyconsider the position before consenting toanv radical Change.

ll. W. C. Angwin: All the had eases atSulbiao were put in there.

Mtr. FOLEY:± r a"' aware of that. Theboa, member himself went very fully intothat. f do not see any* justification for doingawna- with thle sanatorium at Wooroloo. Ifa sanatorium is to be again establish~ed atCoolgardie, of course the men of the goldfieldswill prefer to go there. T have seen in thesanatoriumt ine- with whon, T had previouslyworked. big-framned men now absolutely help-less. One cnannot blame them for growling.for they' have soretrnq to growl about. Myheart goes out to them, and T would like todo soluething for thenm. T want the Govern-ment aind the House to give every considera-ti oi to the i nsti tution ;at Wooroloo beforemaking any rfadical change. We have heardsomething of the admninistration of the firebrigades in the metropolitan area. T havehad an opportunity' of seeing at work boththe volunteer svaten, and the permanent svs-ten. If we aire to have an efficient fire sler-vice in the metropolitan area, we cannotafford to reduce the numnber of permanentmen. The Government should see to it thattheir representative ott the hoard votesagainst reduction.

Uin, AV. C. Angwin: Why?-'Mr. FOLEY: T amt looking at it both as

a memiber of this Chanmber and as a memberof the Perth, city vcotincil. Tn both capacitiesI say' that if we are to have emeiiencv we can-not reduce ot permanent staff, T ani eon-

Nneedl tha:t the expenditure necessary under

thle volunteer system will be even greaterthan would be necessitated by an micr-easedpermanent staff, Take Leederville, a thicklyPopulate(] Centre, Under the new systemit is proposed to have Only two permanent'nen at Leederville, where there is also to bea fire engine. If those in favour of the volun-teer systeml get their way, it is intended tohave Only One luau at Leederville to lookafter the engine and take it out wile. a fireoccurs. -met recently we have had over hereMrIt. Le~e, the superintendent of the metro-politan br-ig-ade in Melbourne, who knows asm111-11 about fire brigade work asay n'an inAustr-alia. Mr. Lee distinctly stated that thepresent numnber of our permanent men is fewenough, that indeed We are just now belowthe safety' line in regard to fires, We do notwa:'nt that, whether we are in fav"our of thev-oluinteer or of the permanent system. Per-sonally, T wish to see the present efficiencyfully maintained. I think it is probabletlhat the underwriters will hare a littleto say" regarding efficienc, I feel eon-Viftced that it will cost -more to equipand manintain a hand of volunteers than itwill if we keep) two extra men at tlhe stationto wh~ich I have referred, I lvant the Covern-maeet to consider whtether tlhey have it, mindthe financial aspect as well as the efficiencyaspect of th~is matter.

Hlon, W. C. Angwin : From the financialPoint of view tlhere will be a saving.

Mr. FOLEY: I doubt that, I do not intendto deal at alty great length with, tile minlingindustry, b~ecause this has already been totuehedupon by other hall. Ilembers well acquaintedwith, the sub~ject. Tlhe member for Kalgoorlie(MNr. Green) spoke of a ease in which somedevelopm~ental work was being attempted bya comnpany or syndicate, He said that a shafthad beet, suink to a depth of 30 feet and thatthle people concerned had driven for a littleover 260 feet from the shaft. F would thinktw-ice before f advocated that State aid shoutldbe given in a ease of this sort, because T donot think enough wor-k has been done to provetlhe stahility of the sh~ow.

Mi r. Green: They are not asking for State

Mr. FOLEY: I contend that if they hadhad an opportunity' of getting the experienceof someone who had a knowledge of mining,they did wrong in driving 250 feet from a 80foot rise. It was an absolute waste of moneyand nmaterial. The officials of the 'Mines De-partinent should see, if anly assistance is askedfor from this company or syndicate, that thiswork is not gone onl with, because it is notdevelopmental work. If this is all that thesyndicate or company can put forward as anarguiment as to wlhy they should receive assist-onice, then, T dto not think they will get mtuchfron, the Giovernm~ent. The member for Brown-hill-Tvanhoe (MNr. Lutey) referred to theanmount of ore per man broken in the stateat the present timne, as comnared with, what "-asthe case in fiat years.

Mr. Green: These people are not prospectingonl tile lead mlinle, bilt are driving along theRle.

f 12 SEPTEMBER, 1018.]32

'Yr. POLE V: They should have gone flownfurther before driving in. I do not want toSpeak about the slowing down business, but I(10 want to say that the figures quoted by themnile)r for Browaliill-Jvanheoe are no real indi-cation that wec nrc getting a better service to-dnv from our men, or that we have better meneiingged in the mnling industry than we hadbefore our boys left it for the Front. Wewere breaking ore in this State before the wvarto a greater extent, and at less cost, than washieing done by blak lab~our in Africa. M.Nost ofthe nuen who were breaking that ore are nowdoing tunnellina work, andi we hope are break-ing, ulp the (lerrinans on the battlefields ofEuirope. I know that the mining industry isright. up against it regarding the coat ofmvaterial, ndi also up against it regarding theefficiene-v of labour. This is not because ofany d1Esire on thet part of the men working intine industry not to do their best, but arisesout of the fact that these ina have not had anopportunity' of learning the mniing business,andu hare not the same standard] of knan-ledlgethat is liossessed by those men who hafve goneto the war. Another reason for this State ofaffairs is that til, en now engaged inl theindurstry art, breaking ore,, hut are not doingrdevelopmnental work, and that is why thennmount or ore broken per man has increased,It is not that the ni who remain behind are,2iore fficeient thou those who have gone awayto fight for their king and country on thebattlefield.

Mr. Lutey- 'rle mines are deeper now.Mr. FOLEY: There is not a great deal of

dlifference in the dlepth from which that oreis boing broken, compared with what wasthe ease before these men wen t to theWPonit.

Rion. W. C. Ang-win: 'What are you tryingto geot it? I do niot understand you1.

'Mr. FOLEY: T think that members r--preseniting gold mining constitnvecies arethoronuhbly conversant with what I am sa v-ig. There is one case that I think the Taxa-

tion Department should take soice notice Of.TI has been said that the gold mining ni-panics get everything they Cnn out of theState and take the money they have mandeto sonic other part of the World. 'Man~yof these comipanies do this, unfortunateir.There is one conipaur, however, the Sons ofOwalin.M which has put by £53,000 everyrear, not for deove lopmlental work but to usFein pirospectig for the purpose of fiodlinmsomething new. If there is -any gold-miningvompany which is making mioney out of itsmine, but nuttting it hark into developmentalwork, T think such a, company shonld hefree of taxation. Ever 'y mnember represent-int! gold mining interests will hack me up inthis. There are ver 'y few of these companieswhich wvill give hacek to the country more thanthey ore forced to give.

Mr. Lutey: The 'y have given us a drink-ing fointink in Kalgoorlie after all theseyear.

Mr. FOLEY: Ever since I have been anieniher or this Chamber not a single ap-plication. for assistance for gold-mining that

I have backed up hare f failedI to have ap-,approved by the Minister for- Mines of the day.l wish to give )%inisters and their depart-mental officers every credit for what theyhare done in this direction. I have obtainedevery thing I asked for in the way of assist-ance, but there n-crc some things which Icould not back uip. If any member has aknowledge of mining, and an application ismade through him, for Government assist-ance, 'it is his duty, no matter what partyis in power, to see that so far as his know-ledge shows him, that money is not beingigiven away which should he kept in thecoffers of the State. I wish to touch uponthe question of repatriation. Ever since th(outbreak of war I have had ain opportunityafforded to no other memiber of the Chain-her, of seeing uuhat is ex'pected of the sol-dier, whiat thle Soldier gets, and the condi-tions under which hie goes away, the con-ditions undler which hie comes hack, and theconditions uitlci- which his family l ivewhilst lie is away. I hold the position oftranlsport officer for the State, and havevisited ever Iy transport, not in the interestssof the military authorities, lint in the in-terests of those who were going away tofight our battles, as weoll as in the inteu-estqof those whlo n-cre fortunate enough to comeohaek, of the delpendeots of those who on for-tuinately "ill not come back, and in the in-terests of the depenolents of those who arcactually away. I also hold the position o1fhospital infireetni, for- the militairy athori-ties fromt the civilian p~oint of view, and I Feewhat is necessary to he 'lone there. I alsohold the position of -omplaints' offier for re-turned soldiers inl this State. l assume hon.mnembers that so far as civilian officers areconcerned, after the military authoritieshave been given an opportunity of settlinganything, they luave civilian rights over andabove their military rights, which is onl~yproluer.

[The Speaker resumed the Chair.1

[Hon. IV. C. Amigwin called attention to thestate of the House; hells rung and a quorumformned.i

'Mr. FOLEY: T held these positions in anhionorary rapacity and hare thus an oppor-tnnity of, to a. great extent, seeing thesenn'y Side of the war. Haqving seen that, andlknowing the conditions, I 'would he wantingin my dub' if I did not do all T could forthose soldiers who came hack and who reallyfought for our freedomn abroad. I do notwant my words to he mnisconstrued on thisaiestioa of repatriation. The first thing Par-liamieat has to doa, and the first thing thatAustralia has to dlo, is to Separate the anea-plovedl frtom the unemployable. That is ap roblemi.

lIeu. P. C"ollier: Do you know if the sys-tent that was supposed to have been intro-dured somne time ago, of sendings cards forthe soldiers to fill in before they landed here,is still inl operation?

32.4

[ASSEMBLY,)

Mr. POLEYI: Yes, This question ofseparating the unemployed front the unem-ployable has got to be settled. I believe itwould be miadness, and worse than a crime,to send a man unless he was physically fit,and his health was good, on to the land. W'ehave all heard the cry, ''Go upon the laud.''Many men have made a failure on the landiii this State, some because they did notpossess the knowledge requisite for thetilling of the soil, and others because theywere not able to stand the work. 31 Iany, ofcourse, bare got onl well. Mfen hare gonefronm the goldfields in the full bloom of man-hood and in the freshness of Youth, and havefailed upon the land, not f romn any causeover which they had any control, but throughforce of c ircum11sta nces. It would, therefore,he a sin and a crime to send any n whocamne hack upoit the land unless lie was phy-sically fit to go there. There has been somelittle done, hut I do not say for a momentthat everything has been done that should,or could, have been done. Like most hon.

veilbers who have spoken onl thle question,I believe it is the duty, not so mnuch of theS4tate but of the (Conmnonwealth, to take onthe work of the repatriation of our soldliers.I will tell lion. mnembers why I think so. Thosesoldiers went away to fight for Australia, andAustralia is the country to see thenm righited.I dto not say' that the States individually haveno duty at all in the matter of repatriation.However, we knowv the number of snoliers whohave returned and the number whbo have askedfor assistance, and also thle number who havemade inquiries. Withiii my own personalknowledge there are dozens of soldiers whonever hare gone and never will gro near therepatriation departmnt, who have no nteedwhatever for assistance. Mfany big-hearted em-pdoyers have put on returned soldiers. Onl theother hand, there are many Jill patriots whio,having urged one of our boys to go and fighttheir battle, hare on his return kept him frunmwork because there was available an able-bodied man out of whom a little more workcould be got than ouit of the soldier. As regardsqsoldiers who left positions in the servic ofthis State, f have nevver, in spite of inquiriesI have made, heard of a case where such aman has been kept, on his return, ouit {of thleeumploymuent tha,-t is rightly his. Tookingarounid this State, I believe 'Western Australiahas done a great deal more than many of theEastern States in the matter of repatriation,and that the situation of the returned soldiershere is better than it is in any other State. Ina civilised country there is no need even inordinary circumstances for any man to starve.But if the "Repatriation Denartuwiit u-ill notdo its dut' hr the soldiers, that duty will haveto he done for Western Australian soldliers hrthis State. At present there are in the mect-ropolitan area 267 men receiving sustena1nce,21 undler treatment ait the Base hospital alsoreceiving sustenance, nine totally incapaci-tated men receiving sustenance, and 893 menreceiving assis9tance while undergoing voca-tional training. Tn addition, the wives andfamnilies of eleven men who are prospectingat present receive assistance. As regards ye-

eational training f believe every member ofthis Chamber believes in it, and so I shall saynothing further on the subject except that aweed of praise is dule to many big-heartedIcitizens of Western Australia who are placingthe services of their business staffs at the dis-posal of our returned soldiers to afford them.an opportunity of doing even a little betterfor themnsclves than they were doing beforethey wvelt to the Front, There are many goodofflirrs in the Repatriation Department, not-ably 'Mr. Gireenhill of the M1edical Department,who is n-orkcing every minute he has outsidethat department, and is indeed breakingdlown Imis health, in giving v-ocational train-ing to returnedt soldiers with a view to quali-fvina them to become health inspectors. Per-ha's, had those soldiers nlot gone to the war,that opportunity would never have been af-forded thent. When recently in 'Melbourne asrepresentative of a mining district, and bar-ing been asked to do so by many returnedsoldiers with whoa, I camne in contact, I iter-viewedl the 'Minister for Repatriation, SenatorAlillen, with regard to repatriation of miners.In timis conneection T desire to say to sonmeilieliibers who have rend a certain article, thatI lid not miss the buss; and those memberswill know what I mean. Knlowing that littleor nothing had beent done up to this time to-wards the repatriation of miners, T regard eiit as my duty to state the position to SenatorMilleu. There n-as thent just some spasmodichelp being given in this direction through theAMies Department of this State, which wasproviiling ever 'ything. T palt it to SenatorM.Nilieu, anad E still hold, that if thereis a returned soldier who wishes to goout prospecting, it is the duty of theVeileral Government to muaiutain his wife andfamiily' in, exactly time same conditions as thewife amil family of a returned soldier settlingonl time laud. For the man who wishes to goon the land the Federal Government proposeto lrovide, through the State Government,..5110. We all hope, that the returned soldierswho do settle oin the landt will make a successof it. I-ut if it is a good thing to develop ouiragZricultural industry' , it is a good thing alsoto) develop our mining industry. T put it toSenator Mfilieu that returned soldiers dlesirousof e~ning out prosvecting should be guaranteedat least a fair living wage, null shiould begiranted sufficient equipment for twelve month,go that their prosmwi-ting enterprise mnighit havea fair chance. Further, I suiggestedl that inthe event of a prosjpectnr returning unsaceessq-fit]. or only partly successful, at the end oftwelve months, lie should lie granted an op-portuuitv of obtainiing a further supply ofnioney nail fresh equipment to enable him toenmtinue prosetia. This much r hold to bethe Iutv of the Federal Government; thme Statecnn step in anid helo the man in other ways.Soldlier prosnectors are bei further assistedlmv hainup instilled into them a little know-ledue-not a great deval: we knowv that in thetime available they could not obtain a greati en I-of gjeology and mine ralogv, so As toenable them to tell in a casual way the differ-ent ores 011 our mineral belts. But where theState could step iii witi, additional assistanceis by engaginig the services of a first-class

[12 SEPTEMBER, l118J 331

metallurgical chennist. Dr. MeLaren was borerecently, and he stayed in Western Australialong enough to dlemonstrate that there is apossibility of some of the ore shoots in ourbig mnines cutting omit. Dr. MeLaren gave itas 1mi. opinion, based on scientific knowledge,that where a certain set of conditions ob-taimned in different portions of our State it isabsolutely certain that undiscovered ore bodies'&exist. Since that gentleman has left WesternAustralia he has applied his scientific know-ledige in another country, with (lie' iesult thatlarge ore bodies were found there. In the ci r-rumstanees it is a matter for ge neral regretthat that gentleman left Australia, and thatbe could not remain in our State for anly lengthof time. But what we do wvant is that theState should get to business-not retrench, butsecure the best man available and afford himevery facility for dloinig his work. Whether imining or any other industry, let the chemiistdo the exploratory work, and then. better re-sults will be achieved than are being obtainedat present from our industries. Thje StateGovernment hare considered it their duty toassist industries, mid they have assisted sev-eral. Whether that assistance w-ill turn out as.advantageous as is reckoned, it is not for meto say Just now, We all hope so. But irre-s4pective of whether certain secondary indus-tries arc established here now or later, I hopethat when we (10 get themi Western Australiawill not sink to the level of the Eastern Statesin this respect. I left the Eastern Stat~s 26years ago, and did not see them again until theoilier day; and 1 never want to ree themagain-Western Australia will do ma: it isthe best State of Australia. In the EasternStates, with their secondary industries andtile wealth which has accrued from those sec-ondlary industries, one sees poor, dreadlful-looking persons, degraded, drawing on thefootpaths or lying in the gutter, begging tohave a penny thrown to them. There they are,singing in the street for copper;p and beggarsof every description.

Mlember: Where. is that I'Mr. FOLEY:- In Melbourne, Sydney, and

other Eastern capitals. Every conceivableform of vice and lowness is there. I am sure-that, irrespective of which side of the Housewe may sit on, none of us wishes to see thatstate of things reproduce(] here. I believeevery man in this Parliament will do his ut-most to ensure that such conditions shall neverobtain in 'Western Australia. In conclusion,I hope that when the Government bring intheir repatriation measutre. every memiber wvilldo more than say that he intends to considerit from a non-party standpoint, but will actu-ally consider it from a non-party standpoint.I hope the Government will not be long inbringing the measure dlown, even if everythingelse has to he thrown aside. All other mattersshould be subordinated to repatriation, so thatwe may speedlily have definite action in placeof words in conneetioum with this subject.

Sitting suspended from 6.15 to 7.30 p.m.

Mfr. PIESSE (Toodyay) [7.35 p.m.): Tt isnot my intention to take up much of the time

of the ]House onl the Address-in -reply because .£feel that one can better express his views onthe mnore important itemiis when the specialmeasures dealing with theni come before thelouse. First and forenmost is the question offinance. We can better deal with that when wehave the Estimates before us. With regard torepatriation, a Bill will shortly be presentedto the House amid it will be possible to dealwith it when that time arrives. I would like.to compliment the Minister for Industries forhis eindeavours in the direction of establishingsecondary industries. Although lie may notsucceed in all his 'efforts, hie will be bound tocollect data whic-h will be useful. The Statecertainly inns not been extravagant in assistiagthe Minister for Industries to carry out his(lesires, but I ann hopeful that ultinnate goodwill result from his efforts. I would like tocongratulate tine nmember for Swami (,\r.-Nairni) on the excellent speech lie made to-dayonl thne subject of secondary industries, andalso the nmemnber for Kalgoorlie (MNr. Green)who gave us somne interesting matter with re-gard to mining. To members like myself whoSit on the cross beniches and who representfarning districts, the information supplied bythne member for Kalgoorlie is certainly useful.'rme land policy of tine State needs renmodelling.We recognise with gratitude that tine fullestconsideration has been given to the menl ontile land by the presemnt Goverunment and thatconsiderable reductions have been made in theupset prices of a good deal of the land whichlias beemn taken up und4er the conditinnal pur-c-hase sections. Bunt there is more yet to hedone in certan zones. When the consolidatingmeasure is before us-sad I hope that it nwillbe introduced before the present session ends-provision should be made in it for dividing theState into zones. I venture to say also that itwould pay time State, in those zones wheresettlement is so costly, to give thne land to thepeople, provided those people lived upon itand developed it. It is of very little use, how-ever, labotiring this question when so littleattention is paid to one's remarks. ThlereforeI shall spare myself the effort. This afternoonwe had quite a sensational event in the Houserelating to the sale of a certain hotel site inthe town of Perenjori. At the first blush thenmatter did not carry with it the best cnlour.Like a good many other members, I was of theopinion that thne Minister had been indiscreetover the matte;, but after perusing the filecarefully, I am satisfied that no fault can befound with what was done, and that there wasno occasion for all tlme excitement. There wasnothing shady about the transaction; every-thing was clear and above board. There wasno instruction to the licensing bench and Tfail to see why the chairman of the benchshould be commended for the action he took. Yhave had the honour of sitting as chairman ofa licensing bench for three years. If a doen-inent of that kind had been placed before meI would have ignored it; I would hare dealtwith the application for a license irrespectiveof the conditions under which the land wassdld. I consider the Honorary 'Minister hasjust cause for resentment at the action takeniii regard to the sale of this block of land. I

332 [ASSEMBLY.]

must express pleasure at the manner in whichthe leader of the Opposition dealt with theparty of which I happen to be a member. Hewas certainly not ungenerous in his remarks;in fact, he gave us an interesting half hourail I enjoyed it immensely. A great deal of

what he had to say w-as trite and for thatreason only I regret that he should have hadgrounds for dealing with our party as he did.I feel sure, however, that tile incident whichtook place at the Farmers and Settlers' con-feretce will beat- such fruit that we shall nothave a repetition of it. We stand to-day freeand unshackled men. Our party was launchedunder the most trying conditions. At first welived under a sort of ban, criticised by ouropponents and certainly not encouraged by ourfrienids. But we standl here as a party to-day;we (10 not take instructions from an executiveor anybody, or even the Press; we arc hereto give upport to the Government whilst theyearly onl the affairs of the country in a fairand honourable way. Neither are we one-eyed.Whilst we are farmers' representatives we asogfeel that we hare anl obligation to other see-tions of thle community, and it is our dittyto see that they get a fair deal. I hare soughton every occasion to give credit wherever it isdue. We are undoubtedly indebted to theLabour Government for the consideration theyextended to thle farining comninnity during theperiod they were in power. That Governmentwere the first to give us assistance of noordinary nature during the drought period, butunfortunately whilst they dlid that they en-deavoured to take back thle i'hole of that aidfrom one harvest. That was too great a callto niake on the resources of the farmers.Onco again ay I say that oni- party hasdecided that it shall remiain a party distinctin its organisation, with the fullest recogni-tion of its responsibilities to the State. Weore ito balance-of-power party. We supportthe present Government, and will continue tosupport them, so long as they behave thenm-selves, until the end of the war, which Codgrant may come speedily. In time T hopewe shall see this party, not the third, butthe first party in the House. We feel, as theleader of the Opposition said the other night,that we are the salvation of the country. Thehope of the country lies in the man on theland, and it is essential that the party re-presenting the man on the land slannld main-tamn its identity.

Ron. P. Collier: That is what we have beencondemned for.

'Mr. PIESSE: I see no reason why theLabour party should not have its own iden-tity. I have tlte idea that the time will comewhen, we shall have-

Honl. P. Collier: The time may come whenyour party and our party shall join forces.

Mr. PIESSE: No, never while you havethe metmber for North-East Fremantle in yourranks.

Hon. P. Collier: We will drop him for thesak~e of harmony.

Mr. PIESSE: I tmust again thank the leaderof the Opposition for his kindly criticism ofour patty, but I hope that in future he willnot attempt to belittle this organisation.

Iron. P. Collier: I have never done that,

Air. PIESSE: At times tile lion, membercanl voice nasty insinuations about the powerbehind the throne. We do not admit thepower-behind the throne theory. WVe feel thatultimately we must become tile power, notbehind, hilt onl the throne. I hope the Gov-

emninent will hasten the introduction of the*Vermiiu Bill, because the country is in greatneed of sonmc machinery to compel all andsundry to deal with the rabbit pest. I seethant the repatriation measure is first on thelist. That is as it should be, but I must againimpress onl tile Premier the necessity forbringing down the Vermin Bill as speedily aspossible.

Mr. HLUKMOTT (Pingelly) [7.49 pan.]Since last week-end I have had alittle runi around various parts of theState and I mtust sa I have been.agreeably surprised at the progress beingmade. Down the Great Southern Isaw niuch that was gratifying, mu-lh thatdlemotiistrated the faith of the people downthere in the future of thle country' . In ninnyplaces I visited 1 saw flocks which have takenyears to build upl. In one place we saw av-ery nice little lot of 25 imported ewes whichhadl Post the owner £254). We also saw ai-erv excellent reat which had cost £400. andin mnany places in the same locality we sawthat the people are doing great work by m-p0: ti ng v-alunable stued sheep with which it,build up their flocks. People who build uptheir flocks and herds in this wvay hlavev-ery gtreat faith in the future of the State, a,faith thlat should he encouraged. A fewYears ago, when we were getting 8d. and 9d.per Ilb. for our wool, there was very littleenicouragemnent for breeders, bitt as sootn aspr-ic-es ridvianeedl we- found men spendingmioney in building up their flocks. 1'nques-tionabh' thle State mutst he enriched by' theenhanced quality of the sheep. I have noticedtile same thing going nit in mo'y own elector-atfe, around Pingelly and other places. M anyof our farmers are going in for stud sheep,a large-franied, good quality, strongwool sheep producing a class of woolmuch in deniand at the present tihue.The tone of the people generally seenishopeful. They seem quite satisfied withthe prospects of the season. The crops,although a little backward, are lookingwell. It is pleasing to more around amongstpeople who, notwithstanding the deficit, areby no means discouraged. The member forPerth (Mr. Pilkington) a few days ago drewa very dark picture indeed. We were to goin for drastic retrenchment, close down every-thing and wait for the future to help)us out of our difficulties. In my oponionif we are to get out of our diffi-eulties, we mlust do as any privateindividual would do in similar circumstances,mnnely, Ibok around and see how wecan improve the position by increas-ing production. That is the coursefor this State to follow, namely,the encouragement of production byall possible means. The Minister for Induts-tries in his ventures has my hearty supportall along the road, for T believe him to be on

[12 SIWEMSBEa, 1918.1 8

the right track. But I would advise theOovernmeut not to build up too many sueallindustries, If we are to be successful withthe bacon industry, we require to hare onelarge factory capable of turning out a uni-form sample of good stuff. If we have littlefactories all over the State, then as soon asa larger factory is started in some big centreit is bound to wipe out the small factories,because they will not be in a position to goin for the better class material. In a Statewith a small population such as ours I be-lieve in establishing a large central factorysomewhere near a seaport town. The sendingof the live stuff to market is not very costly,end I think it would prove more beneficialto establish one good factory than to have alot of paltry little concerns. The same thingapplies to the butter industry. We have hadexperience of small factories in the EasternStates. At one time we bad creameries allover Victoria, but it was very soon foundthat this was not a good policy. When amain sends his cream to n big central factoryhe gets a uniform quality of butter whichalways finds a ready market, but when it isdished uip in small factories all over theState the quality is not uniform, and so theenterprise proves a failure, In moat of thelarge towns in Victoria we had good fac-tories, and in consequence there was alwaysa ready sale. We know what the butter andbacon industries have done for the EasternStates. I cannot agree with the member forPerth. He said that Jones & Co. would starta factory here for the manufacture of jamif they thought it was worth while. in my

opno, .Iones, who has his plant and staff inTasmania, will never conic to Western Aus-tralia to manufacture our fruit into jamso long as we continue taking his productsfrom Tasmania. No doubt it will be a strug-gle to overcome that competition, but oncewe get a good factory established in thisState I think we shall be able to manufac-ture our own local products quite as cheaplyas we (-an procure them from Tasmania. Thesiame thing applies to all our secondary in-dustries. We are the dumping ground forall the implement works of the EasternStates. Tt has been said that the Govern-nment, by establishing tho State ImplementWorks, stopped other people from spendingmoney in that direetiou. But up to the timethe State Implement Works were established,we had very few industries, if any, of thatnature, and it is not unreasonable to thinkthat the agencies paid by the manufacturersof the Eastern States add considerably tothe price of the machines sent over here. ifthe primary industries are built uip on asound basis the second industries most fob-low. By establishing various industries inour own State we are not only able to nsiour own locally produced stuff, but in addi-tion we find employment for many of ourworkers. We have heard a good deal fromgolddields members about the decline in theoutput of gold. The same thing has hap-pened in all the gold-producing States of theCoinmonwealth. Gold is but a flash in thepank. It is a wonderful agency for attracting

population to a State. That is the easethe other States and it is the case here.Iis admitted that every ton of gold taken orof the ground leaves a ton less in it, with tI:result that the mines must soon be workeout. The people engaged in that industrhave therefore to look round for othiavenues of labour. The establishmnent of ttvarious industries which have been mentionswill be the means of affording employnierand dlirecting the people of the State to thmanufacture of products for local conanmition. I agree with what has been said in rgard to the repatriation of our soldiers.hope, when the Bill comes down, it will Ipassed through speedily, and that we shall dour utmost from all sides of the House ifacilitate its passage. I express the sarrhope as that expressed by the member f(Swan (Mr. Nairn) that all feelings of partstrife and party bickering will cease, azithat, as one united body, we will pull t,gether to do the best we can for those wthave dlone so much for us. I regret that t1rabbit question has been so much delave,and was not dealt with finally last sessioThis is A very serious question indeed. flDuing the last few days rabbits have been dicovered on both sides of the Great SonthetRailway, four or five have been shot at Phjgolly on the west side of the line, and sever:young rabbits have been seen in the En:Pingelly district. There is no doubt that tirabbits are spreading fast. The sooner -vcan get a measure through Parliamentcompel everyone to do his bit, regarding tldestruction of rabbits, the better it will Ifor the people who are being eaten out:the present time, and the better it will be f'the State as a whole. This question should Idealt with without further delay, and I uriupon the Government to take every measureItheir commiand to bring this matter to a finissue. rIn the Eastern States for many Yenpast, if people will not, after notice has be(given to them, take stops to eradicate the pe2the rabbit inspectors will put men on at tIexpense of the owners to dig out the rabbitspoison them, or eradicate them in some othiway. This sort of thing should be insistedhere. I learn from letters I have received t.day that many of the settlers are doing nothirat all to stop the advance of the rabbits. Ithe Kondinin district, in lay own eleetorathowever, only recently the settlers bought sonsix or seven miles of Wire netting, notwitstanding the present high price of that eoninodity. This indicates that the settlers mu:bare considerable faith int that portion of tiState, for the price of netting at presentbetween £70 and £80o a mile. They haicarted this netting out and are putting up sior seven miles of fencing with this materiaIf uniform action could be taken by all setlers, I am convinced that poisoning woulcheek the advance of the pest. I have hamany applications for Toxo, or jam poisoiAt this time of the year, when there issmuch green feed about, rabbits will not talphosphorous bait as well as they will take jaipoison. 'Men who have been able to getfew cases of Torn have told me that they hni

[ASSEMBLY.] .

had splendid results and have been able toelheck the pest. As soon as this jamn poisonwas finished, the rabbits began to comte onagain andl eat their crops. I have been in-formed On good authority that the department'have a supply of Toxo on hand, although theofficials deny this. I hope the statement is 'lotcorrect. If they have a supply on hand itshould be distributed. 'it appears to me thatthe thief Inspector of Rabbits is not as dili-gent as he might be, and. is not taking theaction necessary to meet this great emergency.I do not wish to say anything derogatory tohim, or anything that would reflect upon hischaracter, but from what I can learn theChief Inspector is not doing his duty in thismnatter. If this is the ease, I hope that some-thing will be done in the near future to ensurethat someone else shall take his place, or thatsome other officer should be appointed to helphint to stop the advance of this terrible scourge.If the pest is aot checked somue of our bestmen will leave the land. At this time in par-ticular we cannot afford to lose any of thosewho are established on our land. I trust thatthe Rouse will take sonic notice of this, andthat the Government will urge the Chief In-specter to do bis very best in this matter.

Mr. HARDWICX (East Perth) [8.7 p.m.1: Iappreciate the applause of hion. members, butrec~ognise that they are at all times preparedto listen to words of wisdom. At the tail-endof an important discussion like that upon theAd dress-i n-reply, and after some 35 membershave spoken, there are very few subjects ofgreat importance left which have not beentouched upon.

M1r. 0 'Loghlen: They lack originality.Mr. HARDWICK. Thle member for 'Menzies

(Mr. Mullany) spoke in regard to a statementwhich had appeared in the "West Austra-lian." He said, and rightly so, that the state-mnent was not correct. I can assure the Housethat it was not correct. fn the leading articleof that journal the member for West Perth(MNr. Draper) was reported as having said ordone soumething, whereas, as a matter of fact,he was absent from the meeting.

1fr. O'Loghlen:- The article was true in thatportion in which it states that you threatenedmnembers with a dissolution.

Mr. HARD WICK: I do not suppose anyinezzber would be more disappointed than themember for Forrest (Mr. O'Loghsn) if thedissolution were to come along. At all events,they appear to have been in possession ofsom~e of the secrets of our party. I do con-gratulate the Opposition upon the way in whichthey keep their business to themselves. Inthese days of party conflicts and party fightsit is absolutely necessary that there should besecrets in their party.

Mr. 0 'Loghlen: Whet about the closeddoor?

Mr. HARDWICK: Tn connection with that,if there was not the open door on the night oftlhc meeting, there can be no doubt that mem-bers left the room with open ininds. No one-was bound hy any vote whatever, and no oneknewi n-hat the indictment of the member forNortham (Hion. 3. MNitchell) was going to be-There was, therefore, no suggestion of unity

on that particular vote. There was no doubt,too, that the charge was a feeble one. I donot know that I take too umuch notice of thle''West Australian,." At one time I had thlegreatest admiration for that journal, for itsloyalty to the people and to the Governmentsof the country.

Ron. P. Collier: Ts that paper disloyal, too?Mr. HAR.DWICK: 1 say that I had an ad-

umiration -for its loyalty to the Governments inpower. Members of the Opposition will nodoubt recollect that when they occupied thleMinisterial benches this paper, to which allcrs~dit is due, sat calmly by and gave its dailycounsel. The party opposite even had the pro-prietor of that journal supporting them in an-other place. I have read that paper for thelast thirty years, and have appreciated it forits loyalty to the Government of the dlay. Inthese troublous times Governuments nll ov-erAustralia, and throughout the British Empire,want the united support of the Press. It hasbeen said in the past that the Press are theleaders of public thought. If we go on at thepresent rate I am sure that the Press will be-come umore like the leaders of public nuisances.The Press have also attacked the Whip iotheir leading articles, and even east aspersionson the member for East Perth. Of course,they were misled. I have known the policy ofthis particular paper so long that I doa notthink they would put in a statement if theyknew it to be untrue.

Mfr. 0 Logmlen: You dlid threaten, -youknow.

Mr. H-ARD WICK: T am not going tothreaten in any way except to say that soeyears ago another paper in Perth attacked insin my public capacity, and less than 12 monthsafter it was in the banktruptcy coaurt.

Hon. P. Collier: That is a serious outlookfor the ''West Australian.'

Mr. 0 'Loghlen: Y'ou have no right tothreaten.

IMr. HIARDWTCK: There is no doubt thatmembers will agree with me that the debate onthe Address-in-reply is of great advantage tothem and to the country.

Members: Hear, hear!Mr. 4RUDWICK: It is what I might term

the bright spot in our Constitution. It allowsmembers that freedonm of speech which theyare not in possession of when dealing with anyotter subject. It also allows them to discussmatters fully and to go into details. If theyhave any grievances to bring forward, it al-lows them to place these hefore the Rouse. Ioften think, when sitting here, and especiallywhen listening to the references of the mem-ber for Kanowna (Hon. T. Walker), andlhear-iug his repeated attempts to direct the Gov-ernment's policy, and when hearing his con-tinual appeals to what used to be done in thedark ages, how much this discussion helps usto get out of our financial troubles to-day. Toften wonder whether those things which takeplace here will be conserved in the archives ofthis State, and whether perhaps in three orfour thousand years, as; we pass along the cor-riders of time, posterity will look n the copiesof "Hansard" in order to ascertain what was

se-id on particular occeapions Ao long a time be-fore, and whether their doing so will lissist

[12 SEPTEMDMB, 1918.) 331

them in their deliberations upon the subjectsof the morent. Tile hon, member is continul-ally referring hack to antiquity in an endlea-vour to find out how we should run this cou-try. If posterity should investigate some ofthese most important debates, and should readuip the remarks of the member for Kanowna, Ihare no doubt that the conclusion that will bearrived at will be that lie was not respon-sible for his actions. And in reading throughI"IHansard'' they also may find the speeches ofthe menmber for Murchison, and no doubt willcome to the conclusion that he must have, ac-cording to his speeches, at some particulartime in our history, been emptied off a fire bri-gade board. Also, following on, possibly theywould read the speeches of our friend the mnem-ber for Carnarvon and they would look to seewhat he hatd done some 8,000 yearn ago. Theywould be able to discover in that particularperiod that the North-West had been almostdenuded of fruit, that they had no bananas,and perhaps they would discover bananas weregrowing wild there, and were a pest somethinglike the prickly pear. They may pass on to seewhat the member for Northam had been doing,and would find that he was an amendmentmover. The member for Perth might also havesome attention. They would find according toreports in "Hansard" that he was a greatfinancial genius; even they might give a littleattention to thle Minister for Works, and onlooking uip to see how Parliamentarians werepaid in those days they would find from thespeechi of the Minister for Works that Min-isters got £1,000 a year.

Mr. O'Loghilen: And the Whip got most.Mr. HARDWICK: And looking through

they might say that the Whip in those dayshad a good thing. They wouild find perhapsthat thle Whip in those days practically gothalf of it. They might also discover in look-ing through the pages of history that therelived a person by the name of Ananias. Inall probability this great man stayed at thesame boarding house as Mr. J. 3. Holmes.They also might begin to think, if theyread the ''West Australian'' repeatedly, thatAaias had a blood relation on the' staffof that paper. However, I might say myhon. friend, the nmember for Perth, east somereflection, in my opinion, on the Premier theother evening. He said he was of opinionthat the Premier's intelligence was concealedsomewhere at tile back of his head. It hasbeen my pleasure to know the Premier fornearly 40 yers-i do not wish to give awaymy age, but T hare known him-well for 30years, and I knew him to be battling withevery political and financial problem 30years ago, nnd doing all he possibly couldto assist the State. Thirty years ago. Thatwould be many years before the hon. mem-ber for Perth had cut hlis wisdom teeth.Ron. members may have ,liseovered throughthe columns of the Press that some time agoa new star presented itself in theheavens, called nova aquila. There was apopular belief some 300 years ago-I havestudied history, I have not come downhere not knowing what happened in the past;it is my duty to know a bit of the past to

judge of the present-it was a popular belief 300 years ago that when any strangermay it be a comet or a star, prespnted itsellin the canopy of the heavens somte greatcalamity was going to happen. That ealamnity, in my opinion, has happened.We have an invasion of rabbits in th4farmning districts, and we have had an invasion of lawyers into this Chamber. Whalmakes tue express myself in these terms? Itiiiy be a little personal prejudice, and perhaps it is just as well I may tell mom henin connaection with that in order that thElearned gentleman may forget the asper.sions east upon them. The fact of the mnatte:is this: some few months ago a mnan camneto me to change a cheque for 50~s. Being orthe alert, as most politicians are, I thouighiI would get out of it, so I assured thigentleman that I only had threepenu3pieces. Unfortunately he said that won Ido, and unfortunately I changed the cheqn4for 50bs., and presented it at the bank. Iiwas returned me, so I placed it in a solicitor's hands, an old firm of solicitors-it may be fair to the learned gentlemen iithis House to say it was not their firms-Iplaced the cheque for 50bs. in this firm's handito collect, and only yesterday I received amaccounIt from that firm of solicitors for I,'13s. Od. for trying to collect time amnountIt has been alleged in this House that themember for Perth is a shining light in hitprofession, a brilliant luminary in the legalfirmament, and great canopy of the law. Iwould like to say in the light of recent happenirigs that I can hardly think the member foxPerth will ever become the morning star O1political reform. However, I still hold oulhope for that lion. gentleman. I think it waesaid last night by a Minister of the Crown,speaking of somebody outside this Chamber,that ho was a wrecker of Governments. Iconcur in that remark, but of Course beis of athletic proportions, a rather bigfellow. Apart from that, I have knownthis gentleman for a number of years andfrom my experience in this Chamber I do nolregard him in any other light than that ola cuckoo politician. For the Inst 20 yenhie has been laying his eggs in thle otherbirds' nests. He poses, according to thecolumns of the ''West Australian" as afinancial expert, and as a syrupathiser of theNational Government. I say, that any-one can stand up to his enemies, but give mEthe individual who will have the courage t(stand to his friends in times of politicaltrouble and strife. There are a number ofmen in the State, I am sorry to say-it iireported theme are some in the House-eon,tinuially fanning the flamecs of politicalstrife. They have adopted a system of per.petual fault-finding. A continual drip.drip of depression with an occasional out.burst of hysterical abuse-

Mr. O'Loghlen: You are not indulging isaany to-night.

Mr. HARDWICK: That is the one thingthat can be said of the member for EastPerth. We have these men in this life whc

336 [ASSEMBLY.)

are continually disparaging the (iovernment.This sort of ma" is a political blight on gov-ernment and administration, and I say he isa danger to the commnunity, in fact a greaterpest to good government than the fruit flyto the orchardist or the tick to the poultryfarmer. Referring to a matter that oc-curred in another place--

Mr. SPEAKER: The hon. member-Mr. HARDWICK: I was about to remark

about the £22 per head of the populationincrease.

Mr. 'SPEAKER: Is it this session?Mr. HARDWICK! Yes, this session.Mr. SPEAKER: The bon. muember can-

not refer to it.Mr. HARDWICK: If I cannot refer to it

in that way I nay invent sonic other. Isay, this, if Ananias were to return to thisplanet fron, celestial regions, and supposethe lawyers did not know he was comngand happened to have a penny left to buya "'West Australian'' with to read about theaspersions east upon the Whip, and this greaterror of £22 per head being shouted fromthe housetops, Ananias would blush withshamie, for lie could no longer claim pre-eminence in the profession in which he be-caine famous. T must extend my congratula-tions to the Minister for Industries, and Isay I entirely disagree with what the memi-ber for Perth had to say on the importantissue of secondary industries, because we havethe tanneries of this State. I may say thatfor years and years it has been a strugglefor the tanneries to exist. Why? For thesimple reason that we have been unable toget the tannin necessary for the tanning ofthe leather. We have to import thousandsand thousands of pounds worth of wattlebark annually from Eastern Australia, andof course it is more economical to send thebides to Eastern Australia to be tanned thansto attempt to tan them in Western Australia.I remember years ago. before the abolitionof the sliding stale, when we had variousfactories throughout East Perth, there was aboot factory employing 100 men. To-dlay thatfactory is defunct and the machinery has goneto Eastern Australia.

Mr. O'Loghlen: What has the member forEast Perth been doing?

Mr. HARDWICK: The member has beenlooking well after his constituents, and theyhave shown their appreciation of his activi-ties. However, we do not possess the besthides in this State. It does not necessarilyfollow that, because we have excellent beefin the North-West, the hides are of first classquality. It is a long line fronm the Northto the South of this State, and as one getsfurther south the thicker does the hide be-come. I trusit the member for Albany willnot think me personal. I note with pleasurethat the Minister for Industries intends touse his energies towards tapping the greatwealth of our red gun forests. If that canhe successfully' accomiplished-and I thinkthere is every hope of it-if those great for-e,,ts van be forced to disgorge their wealththrough the aid of research, if we can onlyestablish the utility of the rod irnm of W.sA-Urn Australia, that alone will more than jus-

tify the energy and trouble of the Mfinisterfor Industries. As the father of a large fain-ily I joust say that one question which isof great importance, and which should beagitating the minds of public men to-day, iswhbat we are going to do with our boys andgirls. The fact that a position to be filledby a lad of 17 years drew 120 applicationsshould make us think; and there is the for-ther fact that for a position to be filled bya girl of about the same age there were 130applicants. Evidently, in this connectionther-c is something very munch amiss. I wastmuch interested in a remark of the memberfor Forrest (Mr. 0 'toghlen) the other even-ing. He pointed out that it was impossiblefor Western Ausatralia to compete successfullywith the industries of other parts of the Con,-,nonwealth. Perhaps hie also demonstratedthat the Arbitration Acts of the variousStates are not uniform. [ consider that theArbitration Act of this State is faulty, andneeds amiending in various directions.

Mr. 0 'Loghlen: What amendments do yousuggest?

Mr. HARDWICK: For one thing, the pro-visions relative to apprentices should beamended. Western Australia is short ofmechanics to-day because of the restrictionson apprenticeship. We cannot train our ownmechanics. A friend of mnine in the country,a nmechanic, with a family of boys, is unableto apprentice then, to his i-alling. That isunfair to thema, and as a result they havepossibly gone Without a ]Mechanical training.This is due simply to the hard and fast Arbi-tration laws.

Hon. P. Collier: What is the percentage to-day as regards journeymen)1

Mr. HfARDWICK: Absolutely too small.If it were possible to give the proper numberof boys that apprenticeship which wouldafford them the opportunity in life to whichthey are entitled, we would not find 130 boysof 17 years making application for a jobworth £1 per week. That fact is a demons-tration of the truth of my statement. How-ever, I shall hail with delight the day whenour Arbitration Act, if it is not properlyamended, will be footballed into oblivion,into the cemetery *of useless and antiquatedlegislation. I wish to have one word withthe member for Northanil (Hon1. .1. Mitchell),who I regret to observe is not in his place.When hie wont on his no-confidence stuntthe other evening, T felt extremely sorry forbin,, because I have looked upon that lion.nmemaber as worthy to become the successorof that grand old man who has just crossedthe great divide, whose memory we venerateand cherish. I looked forward with tender-ness to the member for Northam developingsome day into that class of statesman ofwhich Australia became so much the poorera few days ago.

'Mr. O'Loghlen: You dlid not encourage himat all.

Mr. HIARDI)WCK: When speaking to anintelligent audience in East Perth some timeago, I stated that T hoped soon to see themember for Northam in the Ministry again.Circumstances have prevented that, partlyowing to the hon. member's own fault, per-haps. He may have thonght that be dis-

[12 SEPTEMBER, 1918.1 337.

agreed front this party on a principle; butwhen the best interests of the State are eon-cerned, when the Empire is at wrar, let as getthe best we c-an in the circumstances, allow-ing subordinate principles to stand aside forthe time being. I may address the- same re-mark to our friends opposite, who declaredthemselves unable to join the National Gov-ernment. I have never believed that all thebest intelligence of the House is centred onlthis side. In my opinion, the great organi-naition of Labour made one of its greatestmistakes when refusing to come into theranks of the National Government and do thebest for the country. T believe muany bon.members opposite, and especially members onthe front Opposition bench, feel that in thebest interests of the welfare of the countrythey ought to join in a united Government.But there are certain powers which preventthat; and T amn sorry* for this because T be-lieve that Western Australia would] havebeen wealthier, and better in every' way. ifinstead of caustic criticism the Governmenthad had the united help of boil. members sit-tiog in Opposition.

Mr. O'Loghlen: The Press turned yourparty down.

Mr. HARDWICK: At present the wholeBritish Empire is abnormal. In my' opinionthis Parliament is abnormal. But in manyrespects the Press seenms to have gone mad.A Ministry of which~ the member for Northamwas one, some seven years ago, is fresh inmy memory, becauise I can almost hear theechoes of the vituperation of the ex-meniberfor Perth, Mr. Walter Dwyer-

Unprincipled robbers and pick-pockets.Cage of unclean birds which for wantonrapacity and unbridled greed are unprece-dented in the annals of our history.

T would appeal to the member for Northermto be charitable. and to help the Government.

Hion. P. Collier: There is great need forcharity.

Mir. lHARDWICK: The leader of the 0 ppo-sition might also be charitable, hcvau~c thatis good for the soul. It remains pretty greenin the memory of members of this House thatsome years ago we had what was called anindependent party, better known as thedauntless four.

Hon. P. Collier: Where are they now?Mr. HARD)WICK{: I do not wish to alarm

the member for Perth (Mr. Pilkington) inany way, but I want to point out to theHouse tAnt members who adopt an independentattitude may not improbably encounter thefate which ov-ertook the dauntless four,. Thedauntless four went to the conntryv, and T donot think they have been beard tell of since.A pecuiliarity' of the Perth seat is that thatconstituency is hardly ever represented by thesame gentleman in two successive Parlia-ments-quite unlike the constituency of EastPerth, which never fails to return the rightcandidate. The member for Northam,, un-fortunately. has in this Parliament adoptedthe aittitude of a freelance, of a politicalIshimaelite, catering for the votes and hos-pitality of the alleged flshevies in this

Chamber. However, thanks to the intelli-gence of the National party, when it came tothat great division only one or two membersof tils party failed to remain loyal.

lion. P. Collier: That was your whipping.Mr. 0 'Loghlen: You threatened them all.Hon. W. C. Angwin: You say that you are

not a party, that you do not believe in party.Mr. HLARDWICK: I mean loyalty to our

chief. Suich loyalty is very neeessary inthese (lays of party conflict. Indeed, I haveheard the member for North-East Fremiantle(Hion. IV. C. Angwin) say oin the floor of thisHouse that he felt hie ought to vote the otherway.

Hon. IV. C. Augwin: Never in my life.iMr. HARDWT(K: The hion. member said

that his en osvienee dictated to hint that hoeshtould vote in a certain way, whereupon thelate '.\r. Connor observed that the lion, meni-her ought not to be in Parliament. T do notwish to reflect on the lion. member, but inthe face of recent party Strife it is absolutelynecessary for me to be loyal to mny party. .'

'Mr. O'Logblen: Were you loyal to yourformer leader, -Mr. Frank Wilson?

Mr. HARDWICK: Absolutely; and, so faras I know, the other members of this partywere loyal to him also. Like other Parlia-mentarians, the Opposition to-clay stand onl agreat principle, a bogey prini-iple. They donot join us. and stand by' the peorpIe, doingthat which is necessary in times of greatpolitical stress and urgency.

Mr. O'Loghlen: But v)onl should not talkabout loyalty to Your cluief. You let downyour last chief.

M.Nr. HARDWTCT(: There are certain thingswhich happen in the march of political evo-lution that cannot be avoided. Let me pointout to the Opposition how even before thewar this State's problems of government andadministration were somewhat perplexing. ALabour Goverinent in six years caused theState to pas~s tltrooigh perilous junctures, be-fore the Wilson Government and the itresentGovernment camne into power. The LabourGovernment doubled the national debt; andas the war rages on, those problemus, politicaland financial, must nmultiply and increase. Itis for Parliament to exercise its best thoughtand lest energies to get the State out of thrtaturle.

Mr. 0 'Loghlen: What do von sagges~t?Mr. HARDWICK: Thnited action. The

much despised Parliaments of the Empire arethe sturdy pillars upon which our nationalfabric rests. Therefore, it iN absolutely in thehands of the Parliaments of the Empire to-dayto ,lo that which is best in order to assist oneanother in achieving those ends necessary forour liberty and welfare.

Mr. O'Loghlen: Morrison is responsible forall this.

Mfr. HARD)WICK: I do not wish to aspersethe character of Mr. Morrison. I hare heardit mentioned in this House that he is a cleverman and a good mviter, but every person inthe State does not htold a journalist up as aleader of thought. No doubt a journalist ex-pesses opinions through the columns of thePress, but those opinions are sometimes actu-

[ASSEM[BLY.1

ated by a little bit of spleen against the peopleabout whomi articles are written, in this casethe present Government. Moreover, a journal-ist only expresses the view of one man. Herewe have 35 members on this side of the House,all of the best intellect ht. Western Australia.We are the select of the selected. We went tothe people and they returned us to conductand manage their affairs for at least threeyears, and are we to subordinate our intelli-gence to the ink that may fall from the pen ofa leader writer? No. We must not allow thePress to lead us. The Press will discover inthe near future that Parliament will lead thePress. A great problem which confronts us isthat of finance. I followed closely what hap-pened during the administration of the lateLabour Government. They got into powerandl endeavoured to make a name for them-selves. They undoubtedly did so. I mustconfess that they were rather unfortunate inthe first year of their administration becausein that year they experienced a drought andmany things happened to militate against suc-cessful administration. Tn-day, unfortunately,things are inure than abnormal and we have toc2arry in addition a great burden of Common-wealth taxation as an auxiliary. I cannot seedaylight through the problems which confrontits, but what I would suggest is that we holdon with our teeth. I do not believe in drasticretrenchment; while so far as heavy taxation.is concerned, I do not think that the peoplewill be able to pay it. T any friend the momi-her for 'North Perth (Mr., Smith) were herehe would hear ine out that it is a very d1iffi-cult operation "to take the breeks off afiielandler. '' Therefore, if we have not themoney w le can not pay.

Mr. O'Loghlen: HOW are we to get out ifit?11

Mr. HARDWICK: We have an assurancefromt the Treasurer that we can carry on tothe end of 1918.

Mr. 0 'Loghilen: And then the deluge.Mr. HAFDICK: 'Not at all.lion. BR. R. Underwood (Honorary Mi1nis-

for) :You are lucky to be able to see so farahead.

MAr.lHARflVrCK: Owing to the Federal com-pact we are handicappedT so tar as the estab-lishmnent of factories is concerned, and sonme-thing will have to be dlone in the direction ofgetting a further measure of protection fromthe remainder of Australia. The Commnon-wealth Government will surely he reasonable;they will listen to us when the n-ar cloud haspassed away and if we can prove to them thatthe verny tact of our having entered the fed-eration has handicapped us to such an extent,they must allow us to continue to have the con-trol of our markets for another 15 years, andpiernmit us also to establish factories, employownt own people and turn out our own me-chtanics. That is the only hope I htold] out forthis, any native State. If I zmy use a racingtermi, those in authority in the otter parts of,Australia are sports.

Arr. 0 'Loghlen: They hanve not demion-strated it.

',%r. 1IARDWH('l: They will do so. he-cflusv it is to their advanta2e to demonstrate

it. What is the use of trying to carry en asa Commonwealth if they know that we areimpoverishied? We cannot pay, and if we donot get the protection we desire wre shall nothe able to pay.

Mr. O'Loghlcn: They will take us over.Mr. HARDWICK: They will not, and I do

not think the people in this State will allowit to be done, The member for Leo norapointed out the many advantages the otherStates have over us, hut he also declared thathie never wanted to go there again, that hewanted to remain in Western Australia forall time. That is the sort of spirit whichshould animate us all here. The position asit exists to-dlay is an impossible one, and sofar as we can see will not be improved untilthe war is over, when a measure of protectionwill have to be given us by the remainder ofthe Commonwealth. We can base our strongclaim on our distance and isolation fromt mar-kets, factors which go a long way to makeour position impossible. One of the thingswhich is a burden on the State at the presenttime is the fact that we have 30,000 of ourbest revenue produLeers fighting for ourliberty across the seas. There has not beenanything in the shaspe of in~creased. populationto our shores for some considerable time. Thepolicy of immigration has ceased. Our centreshave been depleted of people. We mightargue and quarrel anion gst ourselves insidlethis9 Chamber until the walls turnI scarlet, butthat will not assist the position in any way.Let uts get back to the normal; let us try andtake the Press with us when we do. Let usrealise that we are not going to he led bypeople who do not kniow as much as the mem-bers whto adorn this institution. I say witha pang of regret that some of the intelligenceopposite was not displayei in helping thisParliament to carry OIi the affars of theState under difficult conditions.

Mr. O'Loghleu: The Opposition have notprevented the Government carrying out theirpo licy.

Mr. HIARDWTCT(: The duity of the 0 ppo-silica is to criticise and throw every possibleobstacle in the way of Goverunment.

Hon. P. Collier: If thant is our duty wehave not carrieti it out.

mr. HFARPW'"TCK. How can we carry onisuccessfully when a section of the communnityare ifighting against us. There is always aclass of people decrnying the admiinistrationof the clay. If sociething happen within thefamily circle the Government are to h)ianm1e.That is the trouble Governments all over tmeworld. have to conrend against, and in timlejlike the present, when we areL at grips withthe enemy those troubles are imimltipliecl. dis-content grows rapidly, and everyone aplpearsto have an idea of his own ats to how thecountry should he ruin. Tn conclusion, I Wouldlike. to say, let us. not be uammindful of themnany brave- heroes who are sleeping to-day inlonely soldiers' graves beneath the bloodstained fie'dsR of Gallipoli: let us not lie un-

nd~fnl of those A~natralian yrouths who lieburiedl beneath the fields of France; let usrealise the imnportanoce of the existing situa-tion and let uts endeanvour ast far as possihleto be unitedl and assist each other in solving

[ 12 S]EPTEMBER, 19 18.1 33.

the many problems of administration, by doingwhic-h we shall earn the gratitude of thepeople of the country for all time.

'Mr. 'MO'NEY (Eunlmry) [8.58 p.m.]So ninny subjects have been touchedupon in thle Addrcss-in-reply that I wvishsimply to give a few impressions asthey have occurred to me, a new meme-her of this House, who is not saturated asa party politician, at all events at present. fwish to remind the House that the Addqress-in-reply for the first session of this Parliamentrommenceud onl the 20th November, 1917, andendedl onl the 24th January, 1918. So far asT am able to find out, no further result haseventuated from all those weeks of talk.

Hon. P. Collier: We were not talking nlthose weeks.

Mr. MONEY: We certainly had an interval,but we were talking for weeks.

Hon. P. Collier: As a matter of fact theAddress-In-reply only occupied two or threedays.

M1r. MONEY: The debate on the Ad-dress-in-reply for the second session comn-ineuced onl the 22nd August last and Ihonu.', in fact T know, it will endi to-night.That is practically three weeks, during whichwe luave had a multitude of speeches, accuir-ately reported in "Hansard,'' but I doubtnahether the result of all the tune taken up inthe debate wrill have any better effect than thedebantes in past years. I refer to this3 becauseto-dlay' we have much important business totrpansact. We spoilt a whole week in thle Open-ing of Parliament, and I feel there is greatnecessity for Parliamentary reform. T do notsay this as affecting only the present Parlia-nment. Tf we refer to those copies of "Hanl-serif' mentioned by the member for FastPerth, we shall probably find that the samething has been going on for many years past.This might be quite satisfactory to those whohave been politicians for a great number ofyears, but I must confess that, coming freshto the House, I do nut accept it as being atall businesslike. I hope the Government willfurnish an opportunity for full discussion inthe House, with a view to securing somle inea-sure of Parliamentary reform either by re-ducing the number of speeches, or shorteningthe speeches, and by the devising of some dif-ferent miethods than we hare for conductingthe business of the State. The present methodswere quite good enough in the old coachingdays. but they are not up to dlate in times ofrailways, aeroplanes, telegraphs, and wirelesscommunications. To-day we have the samemnethuds as were employed by our predecessorsof .50 years ago. But the world has changed,and I think it is up to u,; to remember that theelothes worn 50 years ago are not suitable forto-day. I will heartily support any reformwhichi will enable 50 members of Parliamentto accoumplishm somle work and avoid the delaysfromi which we have suffered for so long past.The timle is more than ripe for thisParliamentary reform. A number of mewn-he-rs were returned to the House withthat as a plank in their platform, namely,Parliamentary reform, and T am surprisedthat we have not hadl this matter uorged merestronigly. Is there nothing to do, that we can

afford to waste this time? 1 look back and secertain questions that are acknowledged to b,essential to the prosperity of the State, questions now 15 years old. Those questions hay.been shelved fromn session, to session and from,Parliament to Parliament. If we could avoitthis waste of time we should be better able tbdeal with these subjects requiring careful an.earnest attention. Take as anl instance th,provision of cheap limeo for the agriculturistThe subject hs% been worn threadbare. Fothe last 15 years our agriculturists have heeitold that they inust have cheap lime to get th,best results from their land. Successive Governments have promised a solution of tha,small problem. It is a matter, not of finanle.but of action. The lime is there, the agriculturists are there, and all that are required ar.facilities. If past Governments had not proamised tlmose facilities for obtaining cheallime, the people themselves wouldl have provided it years age. As to the necessity for th.lime, let me refer the House to the report a.the Agricultural Commission, page 7, wher.this passage occurs-

Wherever the land is drained and breughunder cultivation, its improvement would b,mlaterially assisted by dressings of eheallimie. Indeed, practically no other agencycapable of producing so mnuch result undeintelligent application. and it is a reflectie,on the State 's agricultural policy that th,mnany deposits, which have for years Imeeiknonu to exist in a form available for immnediate use, have not been made availabllong ere this. The dleposits at 1Lake Cliftoland Capel are, we find, in the hands of eonleesiona ires, whose obligations, inter aflaare to supply certain quantities of lime tifarmers at l~s. to 12s. per ton on rails. tthe case of Lake Clifton the obligation ineot insistent till after the dlelcaration o:peace. The lime deposits are, therefore, tia certain extent, locked up, and we can oal:express these opinions at this stage:-(1:That 10s. to 12s. per ton is too high a prie'for agricultural lime en trucks, say, 'Wareana, and( in fixing such a price the Stabhas sacrificed the interests of its farmers(2) That if the rates fixed are incapable o:revision, to something like 5s. per toma, thm.State should make the best of a had job biarranging with the concessionaires for thinearly delivery of lime for the benefit of tilimited number of settlers whose added railage costs do not prohmibit its use.

r think that is sufficienmt refercece to confirnthe importance of this lime question. O)n another page the Royal Comnmission hmave founethat the lime shoulde be delivered to the agrieiturists at 5s. per ton. I aum not aware a'present of anything being done to put then(reeommemm ilat ioils into effect. I ins4taucee tha'as a matter which, perhaps, would have beerattended to much sooner but for thle unnlecessary timec taken up in the debate onl tinAddress-in-reply. It is recognised that tinmost important subject w'e have to deal withto-day is the financial position. To my mineWestern Australia has nothing te fear so lentas we have an energetic, wise and far-sightc(policy to follow. I am satisfied that there iFno reason whatever for despondency or pessi

[ASSEMBLY.]

iisin in Western Australia. Onl the last oca-sion of my speaking on the Address-in-reply,I took the trouble to investigate the nationalfinances of Western Austra-llm as contrastedwith the Government finances of the State,and I was surprised to find the small differ-once in the national finances as before the warnail as three years after the ontbreak of war.TIP-day I an, more thatn ever convinced thatmiy conclusions on that occasion were right. Itis not only our present finances that wve mustlook to, bitt it is the inaturat progressive in-crease of wealth that must eventuate as timegoes onl. The deficiency is entirely a Govern-meat deficiency, and it is necessary to lhave aremarshalling of our assets, and to look tothose directions whence the wealth is deri-able. When I say that tips national financesbalance. I maat this: we have suffered in re-slect of our timber of late, we have sufferedin other directions. but however much we havesuffered in our gold mining industry, or ourtimbher industry, it has been compensated bythe increase in the wool, the increased value'sof dock, and the inicreasedl values of wvheat ascomipar-ed with periods before the %var. WhyI desire to strike a note of confidence isthis: if we only look back a few years inWestern Australia we find we hadl no wealthof coal. That has beep, developed since. Ttis a wealth that is naturally and progres-sively-A increasing. And we have other wealthwhich will naturally and progressively in-cease by the development of our agricul-tural and pastoral properties. We are cap-able of carrying four or five times as manysheep as we have nowI and we arc capableof a similar increase in cattle. Our timberhas gone uip in value, our coal has gone upin value, in fact, everything is tending inthe direction of a great increase in the valueof the wealth of Western Australia. Aspries go up, as values go up, so much betterare the people able to bear the taxation. Iffor their sheep they receive 30s. instead of10Os., how easy it is for them to meet thefimanial troubles that face us to-day. Agaiin,the depreciation of our currency is anothergreat factor which will help uts considerablyin paying off our national debt. Tf only wecam, husband our national resources, ournational State debt will be as easy to pays the proverbial falling off a log. Themere natural increase in wealth, the depre-ciaition of the currency and increased popu-lation, these three items will entirelyA clearoff the Stste debt of Western Australia.These are pt,o times for us to go about withour tails dowvn. If it is necessary to putstiffness into the overnment, by drugs orotherwvise, we miust try to do it. Although Ihave mentioned these matters which maygive its the neessary optimism and spirit togo on. with thme will to suceed-becauset Tam c-onvinced that if we are to succeed, halfthe success will be due to the tone andspirit with which we go about our work-tb,-re are other matters which require closeattention. I know what I speak of. WhenI talk about sheep increasing in value, Iknow that, with the help of our refrigeratingworks, they will increase in value. When wre

speak of the value of meat we know thatmeat must be of value. The world to-dayis meat hungry. It is starving for meat. Itis cold for the want of woollen goods. Theseare essentials. To show how scarce inEurope cattle and sheep are I would informthe Hlouse that there is a shortage there of

no less than 28 millions of cattle, 54 mil-lions of sheep, and 32 millions of pigs, Theworld's market for some years will he goodfor all the nmeat that Australia can possiblyproduce.

Mr. Harrison. That is absolutely correct.

Mr. M1ONEY: The world's market will begood for all the wool that Australia can pro-Attle for some years. With a prospect likethis, if wve hadl anl ordinary business to dealwith, wet shouldl say that we had excellentprospects; indeed, A business producing asmuch as Western Australia might well viewwith pessimism the future if it was foundimpossible to sell the goods that wereproduced. Let us look at Western Aus-tralia in the light of a business propositionwith markets like these before it. I saythaot the p~rospects could not be better,and that they never haove been better in thehistory of Australia than, they are to-day.I would go further and say tht the prospectshave never been half so good as they arenow. The world's markets are there for thesale of all the produce that can be turnedout by Western Australia. Having investi-gated our assets I say there is no reason todoubt the future, if we only go about ourbusiness by means of proper methods. Thave some good intelligence to give to theHouse in reference to our coal production.For some Tears ptst it has been consideredthat Collie coal iN not a good bunkeringcoal and Dot fit for railway purposes. 'Nec's-shty has shown that it has met the require-ments of most of our local railways. It hasbeen used for hunkering purposes for sometime past with the greatest ,ucess. Thebest information that 7 canl give to members,however, is that it has been shiippd fromtWestern Australia ;os a full car-go, and hasireached Mauritiuis in excellent -onidit ion.The boat conveying it took 31 days to reat-hits destination, adit we havI e just henard thtatthe only difference in temperature betweenthat existing at the time the coal went intothe htold at the south-west port and its ar-rival at Mauritius was ten degrees. T ainrsure that the Minister for Works will 1w glad1to kniow that the efforts of the flovernmentat tlhe Collie coal port will not have beein ir!vain , noid that immediately these works, tire.enm1 ,leted, which wvet- promised by the Gov-ernment in 1911 as part of their policy, butthe completion of whicvh has been de~layed,involving consideraible, waste of money, thereis every prospect of our getting the eoatbunkering ti-ode for the whole of Australia,as this will he the last port of call for boatsgoing home via the Cape. This will not onlymean inureasing the value of the assets ofWestern Auistralia by converting Collie coalinto cash, but will increase our railway re-venue, and will be equal to building two new

JI I bEPTEMB5ER, 191.9.] 4

thipa to meet the' shortage of shipping wehave to-dsly. This will also help in otherdirections 'in getting our surplus food stuffsaway, which have already been accumulat-ing too long. When I speak of two ships Ithink I am within the mark. Ours is the-first and last loort of call for ships comingfrom and going overseas, via South Af rica.Every boat that conmes fromt the EasternStatesonl its way to Europe, via SouthAfrica, will be able to carry so much morecargo by reason of the fact of its beingable to bunker coal from this State, andif each boat can do this it is onlya matter of calculation to show that this be-conies a national and not a local question.There should, therefore, be no further delaythan can possibly be helped. T am glad to seethat this South-West port is one of the publicworks which it is the intention and policy ofthe Government to go on with. I am satisfiedthere will be no cause for regret if the workis done immediately. We shall then be ableto obtain a depth of water of front 30 to 33feet, which will enable any boat ofany size coming to Australia to callthere and get its coal. That in. itselfis a natural increase of our assets. Thereare other minor matters in which we mightall assist if we would. I think we are suffer-ing to-day from a lack of co-ordinationamongst the various Government departments.I am speaking as much as possible in the ab-stract when I say that iu our public depart-ments we have sometimes one department re--fosing to do something on. the ground thatthis is a matter affecting anothier depart-ment, and vice versa. It should be reognised-that our departments stand in much the sanelight to the people as our financesstand to the State as a whole. Wemust regard the finances as being thetotal aggregate finances of Western Aus-tralia for the moment. Similarly our Gov-ernment departments must regard themselvesas being in existence for the benefit of allthe people of Western Australia, not in theirown interests or in the interests of any oftheir officers. I am also satisfied that thereis a great want of economy in the adminis-tration of our local affairs, and that there istoo much centralisation. We should do verymuch better if we could split up our PublicWorks Department into different districts,and have more local management of localaffairs.

Hon. W, C. Angwin: We already have dis-trict inspectors. What more do we wantI

Mr. MONEY: As a. rule the inspectorscome from Perth. This means delay, andvery often the work has to be inspectedagain. We are suffering from too muchcentralisation and should have more localmanagement.

Ron. W. 0. Angwin: You will increase thecost considerably if you have offices in eachplace.

Mr. MONEY: We have the offices there al-ready in the shape of our roads board offices.When I speak of local administration, I donot mean an agent from the head office ina country district. I mean that the people of

[141

the State must take more interest in theirlocal affairs, and that the roads boards musthave power, if necessary, to take a biggerhand in the management and constructionof their own works, inistead of paying 30 perper ccnt. more than they should pay owingto the system of administrntion from a cen-tral body.

Hon, IV. C. Angwn: I thought you weretalking about thetPblic Works Department.

Mr. MONEY: It is no good bringing ideasforward in this Rouse if they are not goingto be taken tiny notice of. We have sufferedtoo much in the past from delays. The ob-ject of parliamentary reform is to avoid thisparliamentary delay, end these delays in des-patch of Government business and the bus-iness of the country. I hope that some noticemay be taken of the speeches which havebeen delivered on the Address-in-reply.

Question put and parsed; the Addressadopted.

House adjourned at 9.25 p.m.

tegisative Bisseii,Tuesday, 1794 September, 1018.

The SPEAKER took the Chair at 4.30 p.m.,and i-cad prayers.

ELECTION XEBTURN-CLAXEMON0T.The SPEAKER announced the return to the

writ issued for the election of a member forClaremont, showing that 'Mr. Thomas fluff had.been duily elected.

'Mr. Duff took and subscribed the oath, andsigned the roll.

[For "Questions on Notice"l and "Paperspresented'' see "Votes and Proceedings."]

BILL-INTERPRETATION.

Second Reading.The ATTORN\EY GEN ERAL (Hon. H. T.

Robinson-Canning) f t.431 in moving the sec-ond reading said: This Bill proposes to amendthe existing Interpretation Act of 1898 in twoParticulars: firstly, in respect of the provisionin Section 11 of the existing Act that any by-law or regulation shall continue to hare theforce of law until disallowed by both Housesof Parliament, and, secondly, in respect of theabsence in the existing Act of any provisionfor continuing a temporary Act during thepassage through Parliament of a Bill for con-tinuing such temporary Act. Opportunity hasbeen taken to re-enact the principal mteasureand its amendments in consolidated and revised

341