t y n w a l d o u r t o f f i i a l r e p o r t · tynwald ourt, tuesday, 17th january 2017 _____...

Published by the Office of the Clerk of Tynwald, Legislative Buildings,

Finch Road, Douglas, Isle of Man, IM1 3PW. © High Court of Tynwald, 2017

T Y N W A L D C O U R T

O F F I C I A L R E P O R T

R E C O R T Y S O I K O I L

Q U A I Y L T I N V A A L

P R O C E E D I N G S

D A A L T Y N

HANSARD

Douglas, Tuesday, 17th January 2017

All published Official Reports can be found on the Tynwald website:

www.tynwald.org.im/business/hansard

Supplementary material provided subsequent to a sitting is also published to the website as a Hansard Appendix. Reports, maps and other documents referred to in the course of debates may

be consulted on application to the Tynwald Library or the Clerk of Tynwald’s Office.

Volume 134, No. 5

ISSN 1742-2256

http://www.tynwald.org.im/business/hansard

TYNWALD COURT, TUESDAY, 17th JANUARY 2017

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Present:

The President of Tynwald (Hon. S C Rodan)

In the Council: The Attorney General (Mr J L M Quinn),

Mr D M Anderson, Mr M R Coleman, Mr C G Corkish MBE, Mr D C Cretney, Mr T M Crookall, Mr R W Henderson and Mr J R Turner,

with Mr J D C King, Deputy Clerk of Tynwald.

In the Keys: The Speaker (Hon. J P Watterson) (Rushen);

The Chief Minister (Hon. R H Quayle) (Middle); Mr J R Moorhouse and Hon. G D Cregeen (Arbory, Castletown and Malew);

Hon. A L Cannan and Mr T S Baker (Ayre and Michael); Hon. C C Thomas and Mrs C A Corlett (Douglas Central); Miss C L Bettison and Mr C R Robertshaw (Douglas East);

Mr D J Ashford and Mr G R Peake (Douglas North); Hon. K J Beecroft and Hon. W M Malarkey (Douglas South);

Mr M J Perkins and Mrs D H P Caine (Garff); Hon. R K Harmer and Hon. G G Boot (Glenfaba and Peel);

Mr W C Shimmins (Middle); Mr R E Callister and Ms J M Edge (Onchan); Dr A J Allinson and Mr L L Hooper (Ramsey);

Hon. L D Skelly (Rushen); with Mr R I S Phillips, Clerk of Tynwald.


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Business transacted

Leave of absence granted ............................................................................................................. 385

Procedural .................................................................................................................................... 385

Permission for filming in the Chamber ......................................................................................... 386

Congratulations to Attorney General on his appointment .......................................................... 386

Papers laid before the Court ........................................................................................................ 386

Bills for Signature.......................................................................................................................... 388

Questions for Oral Answer ................................................................................................. 389

1. TV licences for over-75s – Progress .................................................................................. 389

2. Income Tax corporate rate increase – Extra revenue from land and property income ... 390

3. Medium-term financial forecast – Intention to produce in Budget ................................. 391

4. Special Constables – Liability insurance ............................................................................ 392

5. Port Erin Marine Biological Station – Update and plans ................................................... 394

6. Late arrivals at Ronaldsway Airport – Overtime costs ...................................................... 395

7. Census 2016 – Delay in providing results .......................................................................... 396

8. TV licence fee – Agreement with BBC ............................................................................... 398

9. Government services and projects – Evaluation of value for money ............................... 399

10. Land Registry – Digitisation ............................................................................................. 400

11. Villa Gaiety complex – Plans regarding contracting out ................................................. 401

12. Isle of Man living wage – Analysis for level ..................................................................... 404

13.&14. Plastic bags – Plans to introduce charge, levy or tax .............................................. 406

15. Planning enforcement system – Fixed penalty notices................................................... 409

16. UK Investigatory Powers Act 2016 – Plans to extend to the Isle of Man ........................ 411

17. TV licences for over-75s – Arrangements in Jersey; progress for Isle of Man ................ 412

Questions for Written Answer ............................................................................................ 415

18. Operation Leopard – Details of investigation and further action ................................... 415

19. Operation Leopard – Costs orders .................................................................................. 415

20. Operation Leopard – Cost ............................................................................................... 416

21. Payments under Financial Directive 30 – Details ............................................................ 416

22. Pinewood Film Advisors Ltd – Investment proposals evaluated .................................... 417

23. Douglas Masterplan – Progress and statement .............................................................. 418

24. Section 29, Education Act 2001 – Unauthorised absence 2015-16 ................................ 419

25. Manx National Anthem – Whether taught in schools .................................................... 419

26. Live animal exports – Numbers of sheep and cattle ....................................................... 420


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27. A&E patients – Numbers and percentage discharged without treatment ..................... 424

28. Drug-related deaths – Numbers recorded ..................................................................... 425

29. Health care assistants at Hospital– Gender split ............................................................ 426

30. Airport manning system – Review, results and improvements...................................... 426

31. Sewerage operations – Deficit ........................................................................................ 427

32. Sewerage charge/rates – Amounts raised ...................................................................... 427

Supplementary Order Paper No. 1 ...................................................................................... 429

1. Standing Orders suspended to take Supplementary Order Paper .................................. 429

3. Programme for Government 2016-2021 – Debate commenced ..................................... 429

The Court adjourned at 1.00 p.m. and resumed its sitting at 2.30 p.m. ...................................... 445

Procedural .................................................................................................................................... 445

Programme for Government 2016-2021 – Debate continued – Motion carried ................. 445

Order of the Day ................................................................................................................ 462

3. Supplementary Vote – Department of Health and Social Care – Amended motion carried ..................................................................................................... 462

4. Rockmount and Peel Marina Plans – Motion carried ....................................................... 474

5. Douglas Promenade Options Review – Combined vote under Standing Order 3.19(1) – Amended motion carried ..................................................................................................... 476

6. Standing Orders Committee of Tynwald– Code of Conduct for Journalists – First Report 2016-17 received and recommendation approved .......................................... 481

The Court adjourned at 5.09 p.m. and resumed its sitting at 5.35 p.m. ...................................... 485

7. Appointments Commission – Mrs Helen Booth reappointed .......................................... 485

8. Office of Fair Trading – Ms Caroline Convery and Mrs Kate Lord-Brennan appointed .... 486

9.-10. Education Act 2001 – Student Attendance (Fixed Penalty) Order 2017 approved – Student Attendance (Fixed Penalty Notice) Regulations 2017 approved ............................ 486

11. Animal Health Act 1996 – Trade in Animal and Related Products Order 2016 approved ............................................................................................................................... 490

12. Animal Health Act 1996 – Non-Commercial Movement of Pet Animals Order 2016 approved ............................................................................................................................... 491

13. Animal Health Act 1996 – Rabies (Importation of Dogs, Cats and Other Mammals) Order 2016 approved ........................................................................................................... 492

14. Consumer Protection Act 1991 – Consumer Protection (Cancellation of Relevant Contracts) Regulations 2016 approved ................................................................................ 492

15.-16. Custody Act 1995 – Custody (Amendment) Rules 2016 approved – Custody Regulations 2016 approved .................................................................................... 494

17. Shot Guns, Air Weapons and Cross-bows Act 1994 – Shot Guns, Air Weapons and Cross-bows (Amendment) Regulations 2016 approved; 18. Firearms Act 1947 – Firearms (Amendment) Rules 2016 approved .............................. 495

19. Income Tax Act 1970 – Income Tax (Accounting Records) (Retention) Regulations 2016 approved .................................................................................................. 496


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20. Financial Services Act 2008 – Financial Services (Civil Penalties) (Amendment) Regulations 2016 approved .................................................................................................. 497

21. Customs and Excise Act 1993 – Psychoactive Substances Act 2016 (Application) (Amendment) Order 2016 approved .................................................................................... 498

22.-24. Social Security Act 2000 – Social Security Contributions and Benefits Act 1992 (Application) (Amendment) (No.5) Order 2016 approved; Social Security Administration Act 1992 (Application) (Amendment) (No.4) Order 2016 approved; Social Security Legislation (Benefits) (Application) (Amendment) (No.6) Order 2016 approved ................................................................................................. 499

25. Social Security Act 2000 – Social Security Act 2000 (Amendment) Order 2016 approved ............................................................................................................................... 500

26. Nursery place provision – Amended motion carried ...................................................... 502

27. Catering Shared Services – Budgeting and procurement policies – Amended motion carried ...................................................................................................... 508

28. Living wage – Government proposals – Motion carried ................................................. 518

The Council withdrew. .................................................................................................................. 527

House of Keys .................................................................................................................... 527

The House adjourned at 7.56 p.m. ............................................................................................... 527


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PAGE LEFT DELIBERATELY BLANK


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Tynwald

The Court met at 10.30 a.m.

[MR PRESIDENT in the Chair]

The Deputy Clerk: Hon. Members, please rise for the President of Tynwald. The President: Moghrey mie, good morning, Hon. Members. 5

Members: Moghrey mie, Mr President. The President: In the absence of a Lord Bishop, the Chaplain will lead us in prayer.

PRAYERS The Chaplain of the House of Keys

Leave of absence granted

The President: Hon. Members, I have given leave of absence to Mr Wild who is unwell and 10

also to Mr Boot for part of this morning on official business, which will mean that Questions to him as Minister for Environment, Food and Agriculture: Questions 13, 14, and 15, will be taken by Mr Baker.

Procedural The President: Hon. Members, there are two Supplementary Order Papers as well as the 15

main Order Paper. With your agreement, I shall ask the Clerk to lay the papers on all Order Papers at the start of the sitting and take the first Supplementary Order Paper, which relates to the Programme for Government, at the start of business after Questions. I shall take the second Order Paper later.

Does the Court agree? 20

Members: Agreed. The President: Thank you.


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Permission for filming in the Chamber

The President: Members will recall that at the last sitting they gave permission for the debate 25

on the Programme for Government to be filmed today. In addition, I have received a request for today’s debate on Item 6: Code of Conduct for

Journalists, to be filmed and also a request for the Budget Debate at the February sitting to be filmed.

Is the Court content for this to be allowed? 30

Members: Agreed. The President: Thank you, Hon. Members.

Congratulations to Attorney General on his appointment

The President: I think it would be most appropriate to extend to our new Her Majesty’s 35

Attorney General the warmest congratulations of this Hon. Court on his appointment and we look forward to his continued presence amongst us.

Members : Hear, hear.

Papers laid before the Court

The President: Item 1, I call on the Clerk to lay papers. 40

The Clerk: Ta mee cur roish y Whaiyl ny pabyryn enmyssit ayns ayrn nane jeh’n Chlaare

Obbyr. Ta mee cur roish y Whaiyl ny pabyryn enmyssit ayns ayrn jees jeh’n Chlaare Obbyr Arbyllagh

Earroo nane as Earroo Jees. 45

I lay before the Court the papers listed at Item 1 of the Order Paper. I lay before Court the papers listed at Item 2 of the Supplementary Order Papers No. 1 and

No. 2. Education Act 2001

Student Attendance (Fixed Penalty) Order 2017 [SD No 2016/0369] [MEMO] Student Attendance (Fixed Penalty Notice) Regulations 2017 [SD No 2016/0370] [MEMO]

Animal Health Act 1996 Trade in Animal and Related Products Order 2016 [SD No 2016/0358] [MEMO] Non-Commercial Movement of Pet Animals Order 2016 [SD No 2016/0359] [MEMO] Rabies (Importation of Dogs, Cats and Other Mammals) Order 2016 [SD No 2016/0360] [MEMO]

Consumer Protection Act 1991 Consumer Protection (Cancellation of Relevant Contracts) Regulations 2016 [SD No 2016/0345] [MEMO]

http://www.tynwald.org.im/business/opqp/sittings/Tynwald%2020162018/2016-SD-0369.pdf

http://www.tynwald.org.im/business/opqp/sittings/Tynwald%2020162018/2016-SD-0369-MEMO.pdf












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Custody Act 1995 Custody (Amendment) Rules 2016 [SD No 2016/0371] [MEMO] Custody Regulations 2016 [SD No 2016/0372] [MEMO]

Shot Guns, Air Weapons and Cross-bows Act 1994 Shot Guns, Air Weapons and Cross-bows (Amendment) Regulations 2016 [SD No 2016/0379] [MEMO]

Firearms Act 1947 Firearms (Amendment) Rules 2016 [SD No 2016/0380] [MEMO]

Income Tax Act 1970 Income Tax (Accounting Records) (Retention) Regulations 2016 [SD No 2016/0343] [MEMO]

Financial Services Act 2008 Financial Services (Civil Penalties) (Amendment) Regulations 2016 [SD No 2016/0351] [MEMO]

Customs and Excise Act 1993 Psychoactive Substances Act 2016 (Application) (Amendment) Order 2016 [SD No 2016/0377] [MEMO]

Social Security Act 2000 Social Security Contributions and Benefits Act 1992 (Application) (Amendment) (No.5) Order 2016 [SD No 2016/0355] [MEMO]

Social Security Act 2000 Social Security Administration Act 1992 (Application) (Amendment) (No.4) Order 2016 [SD No 2016/0356] [MEMO] Social Security Legislation (Benefits) (Application) (Amendment) (No.6) Order 2016 [SD No 2016/0357] [MEMO] Social Security Act 2000 (Amendment) Order 2016 [SD No 2016/0364] [MEMO]

Reports Replacement of the Temporary Storage Facility at Rockmount and the Planned Maintenance Programme for Peel Marina 2017-19 Report [GD No 2016/0084] [MEMO] Standing Orders of Tynwald Committee – First Report for the Session 2016-2017 – Code of Conduct for Journalists [PP No 2016/0169]

The remaining items are not the subject of motions on the Order Paper

Documents subject to negative resolution

European Communities (Isle of Man) Act 1973 Information Accompanying Transfers of Funds Regulations 2016 [SD No 2016/0350] [MEMO]

Wildlife Act 1990 Controlled Marine Area (Seismic Survey Works) Byelaws 2016 [SD No 2016/0361] [MEMO]


http://www.tynwald.org.im/business/opqp/sittings/Tynwald%2020162018/2016-SD-0371-0372-MEMO.pdf





















http://www.tynwald.org.im/business/opqp/sittings/Tynwald%2020162018/2016-GD-0084.pdf

http://www.tynwald.org.im/business/opqp/sittings/Tynwald%2020162018/2016-GD-0084-MEMO.pdf

http://www.tynwald.org.im/business/opqp/sittings/Tynwald%2020162018/2016-PP-0169.pdf






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Marine Infrastructure Management Act 2016 Controlled Marine Area (Seismic Survey Works) Regulations 2016 [SD No 2016/0362] [MEMO]

Documents subject to no procedure Value Added Tax Act 1996

Value added Tax (Small Non-Commercial Consignments) Relief (Amendment) Order 2016 [SD No 2016/0381]

Appointed Day Order Custody (Amendment) Act 2016

Custody (Amendment) Act 2016 (Appointed Day) Order 2016 [SD No 2016/0378]

Reports Report to Tynwald on Health Complaints 2014/15 and 2015/16 [GD No 2016/0070] Manx National Insurance Fund Account for the Year Ended 31 March 2016 [GD No 2016/0066] Isle of Man Safeguarding Adults Partnership Annual Report 2015/16 [GD No 2016/0092] Isle of Man Safeguarding Children Board Annual Report 2015/16 [GD No 2016/0093]

Supplementary Order Paper No. 1

Reports

Programme for Government 2016-2021 – Our Island: A Special Place to Live and Work [GD No 2017/0002] [MEMO].


Government Departments Act 1987

Transfer of Functions (Part 2 of the Water Pollution Act 1993) Order 2017 [SD No 2017/0030] [MEMO].

Bills for Signature

The President: Hon. Members, there may well be Bills ready for signature during the course 50

of the sitting and I shall circulate them for signing at the appropriate time while we proceed with other business.














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Questions for Oral Answer

CHIEF MINISTER

1. TV licences for over-75s – Progress

The Hon. Member of the Council, Mr Cretney, to ask the Chief Minister:

Following the Tynwald resolution of 18th October 2016 in relation to television licences for those aged 75 or over, what meetings have taken place at (a) officer level and (b) political level with the UK Government or the BBC; whether agreement has been reached on the principle that funding arrangements similar to those in place in the UK should be applied to the Isle of Man; and whether a taper arrangement will be facilitated prior to this principle being implemented?

The President: Item 2, Questions. 55

I call on the Hon. Member for Council, Mr Cretney, to ask Question 1. Mr Cretney: Thank you, Mr President. I wish to ask the Chief Minister, following the Tynwald resolution of 18th October 2016 in

relation to television licences for those aged 75 or over, what meetings have taken place at (a) 60

officer level and (b) political level with the United Kingdom Government or the BBC; whether agreement has been reached on the principle that funding arrangements similar to those in place in the UK should be applied to the Isle of Man; and whether a taper arrangement will be facilitated prior to this principle being implemented?

65

The President: I call on the Chief Minister to reply, the Hon. Member for Middle, Mr Quayle. The Chief Minister (Mr Quayle): Thank you, Mr President. Since October 2016, officer-level discussions with the BBC have continued. There has also

been an officer-led telephone conference call with the UK Department for Culture, Media and 70

Sport relating to the BBC and the television licence fee which Jersey and Guernsey also participated in.

Discussions are ongoing and agreement is anticipated in the next few months. However, I am not yet able to advise on the detail of this agreement.

75

The President: Supplementary, Mr Cretney. Mr Cretney: Yes, thank you, and I thank the Chief Minister for his response. Would the Chief Minister like to comment on the announcement from the Crown

Dependency in Jersey just prior to Christmas that that have reached some agreement and why it 80

is that we are not in a similar position at this stage? The President: Chief Minister. The Chief Minister: Thank you, Mr President. 85

Yes, Jersey have reached an agreement that there were other elements to that part but, according to the Jersey press release, the BBC and the States of Jersey have now made a number


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of commitments respectively and the BBC has committed its intention to treat all Crown Dependencies equitably, and I think that is the key element of that in part of these negotiations.

It continues to provide Jersey with radio, television and other services, such as coverage of 90

state sittings – which is highly topical at the moment – to the same extent that it currently does. It contributes phased funding for Jersey’s means-tested TV licence concessions for people over the age of 75.

As I say, this will be coming in in the next couple of years, Mr President. We are not delaying this; it is purely that we are in the negotiation. You have to remember that we put ourselves in 95

the position where we are, not the BBC, so I am not attacking the BBC in any way, shape or form. The previous administration decided to go down the route; we have changed our mind, with the full acceptance of the Court, and we have until next year to sort out these negotiations before the phased introduction of the payment, so it is not that we have to rush it and get it done within the next four or five months; we have until next year, Mr President. 100

As I say, it is nearly there, but once we have the results then I am more than happy to share it.

TREASURY

2. Income Tax corporate rate increase – Extra revenue from land and property income

The Hon. Member for Ramsey (Dr Allinson) to ask the Minister for the Treasury:

How much extra revenue was generated by the increase in the corporate rate of Income Tax on income from land and property during the tax year 2015-16?

The President: Question 2, Hon. Member for Ramsey, Dr Allinson. Dr Allinson: Thank you, Mr President. 105

I would like ask the Treasury Minister how much extra revenue was generated by the increase in the corporate rate of Income Tax on income from land and property during the tax year 2015-16?

The President: I call on the Treasury Minister to reply. 110

The Minister for the Treasury (Mr Cannan): Mr President, the increase in the corporate rate

of tax on income from land and property was introduced with effect from 6th April 2015. However, because the deadline for filing of company tax returns and payment of any liability is 12 months and one day after the end of their accounting period, it is only during the current 115

2016-17 financial year that the increased tax starts to be actually, physically collected. When the measure was introduced, it was estimated that the increase in revenue realised in

the 2016-17 financial year would be £1.35 million and £3 million for 2017-18 and subsequent years thereafter.

Companies continue to file their returns and discharge their liabilities over the forthcoming 120

weeks and I will be keen to establish whether the additional revenue projection of £1.35 million for 2016-17 has been achieved once the financial year has been concluded.

However, in the interim, I can tell the Hon. Member that the Assessor has advised me that, based on the returns that have been filed so far, it is highly likely that the projected annual revenue figure for the 2016-17 year of £1.35 million will be achieved. 125


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The President: Supplementary question, Dr Allinson. Dr Allinson: Thank you, Mr President. I would like to thank the Minister for his very detailed reply. Would he agree with me that 130

this increase in taxation has to be audited very carefully, particularly when there are increasing numbers of vacant commercial properties in the centre of town? I would not like to see any taxation actually reduce economic activity for the Isle of Man.

A Member: Hear, hear. 135

The President: Treasury Minister. The Minister: Mr President, I fully agree and concur with the Hon. Member’s sentiments. We

have reviewed very carefully all our taxation policies for the forthcoming year. They are due to 140

be announced, as the Hon. Member knows, in the next month at next month’s Tynwald in the Budget.

Clearly, these matters are delicate ones. We do need to pay very close attention to the impact of any Government policies in this area and I can assure the Hon. Member that we will be looking very carefully at this area. At this Budget, we have considered it very carefully and we 145

will be looking very carefully at it over the next 12 months as well, particularly in light of some of the statements that are coming from the UK Chancellor.

3. Medium-term financial forecast – Intention to produce in Budget

The Hon. Member for Douglas East (Mr Robertshaw) to ask the Minister for the Treasury:

Whether he intends to produce a medium-term financial forecast as part of his Budget?

The President: Question 3, Hon. Member for Douglas East, Mr Robertshaw. Mr Robertshaw: Thank you, Mr President. 150

I beg to ask the Treasury Minister whether he intends to produce a medium-term financial forecast as part of his Budget?

The President: Minister for the Treasury to reply. 155

The Minister for the Treasury (Mr Cannan): Mr President, I can confirm that the Budget proposals will incorporate a five-year financial plan.

The President: Mr Robertshaw, a supplementary. 160

Mr Robertshaw: Thank you, Mr President. Does the Treasury Minister share with me the absolute importance that is inherent in the

production of this forecast of an open, honest approach to the big challenges ahead? I refer particularly to the failure of last year’s forecast, which was called a strategy, to identify, for example, the escalation in health costs and the inherent difficulties that the growth in the health 165

costs will place before us with regard to the upcoming problems over public sector pensions when the fund runs out.


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The President: Minister. 170

The Minister: Mr President, the Hon. Member will know that I fully share his views on the Budget process and that the Treasury should be producing an honest and transparent Budget, so I can hopefully reassure the Hon. Member that when we come to deliver the Budget next month he will be reassured that the Treasury has been fully transparent in declaring the present position in terms of Government’s finances and making suitable provision for services where 175

there is clear evidence that existing budgets are not meeting demand. The President: A further supplementary. Mr Robertshaw: A final supplementary, Mr President: will the Treasury Minister assure us 180

that there will be a more sophisticated breakdown of cost centres with regard to the forecast, and also that there will be a more sophisticated narrative attached to it?

Thank you. The President: Reply, sir. 185

The Minister: Mr President, in the Treasury Department at the moment we have paid close

attention to trying to ensure that the Government’s accounts do give as much transparency as possible. This is an ongoing process that my predecessor started in the last Budget that he presented before he left. It is a process that we in the Treasury are committed to and it is an 190

ongoing process. There is a lot of work to be done about how Government accounts and Government finances are relayed in such a way that ordinary members of the public can fully understand the full position and we are committed to going about that process. It will, of course, be up to Hon. Members to tell me in due course whether the level of sophistication around that needs to be changed. 195

The President: Supplementary, Hon. Member for Ramsey, Mr Hooper. Mr Hooper: Thank you, Mr President. Would the Treasury Minister agree that some form of independent oversight of the Budget 200

process and the medium-term financial strategies would actually provide the sort of reassurances that the Hon. Member Mr Robertshaw is looking for, and that the role of the Auditor General would be key to this process?


The Minister: Mr President, as it stands at the moment, Tynwald provides the independent

oversight of the Budget process. The matter of increasing the cost to the public of having an Auditor General I think is a matter for discussion by Tynwald if they fail to be satisfied with the presentation of the Budget. 210

HOME AFFAIRS

4. Special Constables – Liability insurance

The Hon. Member for Douglas North (Mr Ashford) to ask the Minister for Home Affairs:


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What liability insurance is in place for Special Constables while carrying out their duties and whether this cover differs from cover for regular Constables?

The President: Question 4, Hon. Member for Douglas North, Mr Ashford. Mr Ashford: Thank you, Mr President. I beg to ask the Minister for Home Affairs what liability insurance is in place for Special

Constables while carrying out their duties and whether this cover differs from cover for regular 215

Constables? The President: I call on the Minister for Home Affairs, Mr Malarkey. The Minister for Home Affairs (Mr Malarkey): Thank you, Mr President. 220

Special Constables are deemed, with regard to insurance, to be employees of the Government and are therefore covered under the Government’s current liability cover. Therefore, they enjoy exactly the same liability as that of a regular Constable; or, for that matter, any other employee of Government is covered the same way.

225

The President: Mr Ashford, a supplementary. Mr Ashford: Thank you, Mr President. Could the Minister confirm then if the actual cover received by Constables in the Isle of Man,

be they regular or special, differs from that received in the UK, which of course is not covered by 230

the UK government and is actually covered by the Police Federation? The President: Minister. The Minister: Thank you, Mr President. 235

I do not have the information on how the UK government run their police force or insure their constables. What I can say is that the cover we have is with Zurich, which covers all employees of Government. It also covers Constables and Special Constables as well, Mr President.

240

The President: A further supplementary, Mr Ashford. Mr Ashford: Thank you, Mr President. Can the Minister confirm then that should a Special Constable in the course of his duties get

sued privately, that cover would actually apply to them in the same way as it would an ordinary 245

Constable and that there would be absolutely no difference at all – that the costs would potentially be covered?

Would the Minister also be able to confirm: does the insurance cover have a limit as to what can actually be claimed?

250

The President: Minister. The Minister: Mr President, if the Constable or Special Constable is acting in a role on behalf

of Government, which is what we are insured for, yes they would be covered. The official indemnity for an individual is £20 million. For the employers the indemnity is £50 million. The 255

public liability is also £50 million and the excess for the policy is £142,660. For libel and slander, liability cover is for £1 million, Mr President.


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INFRASTRUCTURE

5. Port Erin Marine Biological Station – Update and plans

The Hon. Member for Rushen (Mr Speaker) to ask the Minister for Infrastructure:

What the current state is of the Port Erin Marine Biological Station; and what his plans are for the site?

The President: We turn to Question 5, Hon. Member for Rushen, Mr Speaker. 260

The Speaker: Just to ask the Minister for Infrastructure: what is the current state of the Port Erin Marine Biological Station and what are his plans for the site?

The President: I call on the Minister for Infrastructure, the Hon. Member for Peel,

Mr Harmer. 265

The Minister for Infrastructure (Mr Harmer): Thank you, Mr President. Following the fire on 31st December 2016, a large proportion of the main roof and first floor,

with the central section of the original laboratory has been completed destroyed, and the remaining timber significantly burned and reduced in section. Timber rafters, beams and joists 270

are missing, with a large percentage of them having little or no bearing strength to support the walls. This means there is a significant reduction in the lateral, referring to both the front and rear walls, which poses the risk of further collapse to part of the structure.

In view of the condition of the building, the road in front of the building remains closed and fencing is in position to prohibit pedestrian access within 10 metres of the building frontage. 275

The condition of the building is being monitored and the Department officers are currently in discussion with structural engineers and insurers to determine the appropriate course of action.

The building and site have been on the market for some considerable time with limited commercial interest. Since the Sea Breezes proposals for the premises were rejected at planning stage, further expressions of interest in the building have been received and interested parties 280

have inspected the premises. At the time of the fire, there was only one party in active discussion with the Department over the possible use of the site and these discussions were at a very preliminary stage.

Whilst the building may have been regarded by some as being attractive from the outside, its internal layout with regard to the older part seriously limits its commercial potential. The 285

previous proposal by Sea Breezes Ltd would have required considerable capital investment to the premises to make them useable. Until such time as the Department has had the opportunity to consider the advice of structural engineers and insurers, it is too early to give any indication of what the likely future of the fire-damaged part of the building will be. It is likely that my Department will continue to look to dispose of the site, including the undamaged part, to obtain 290

rental capital income. The President: Supplementary, Mr Speaker. The Speaker: Does the Minister consider, should the building be demolished, that would 295

represent fresh opportunities for the site, because it would not just be the existing footprint of the building but a far larger area of land that could be released, given the Department owns a huge amount of that part of the area in Port Erin? Has that been considered?

Is it the case that the Department owns not just that site but the road, the grass area opposite and pretty much the whole part west of the Life Boat Station in Port Erin? 300


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The President: Reply, sir. The Minister: Thank you, Mr President. Regarding whether the whole site is demolished, that is being considered, because we want

to make the best possible use of the total area, and for the future, so it is actively being 305

considered. The question of whether the road and site … I will have to come back to exactly the boundary

of what is zoned. The President: Mr Speaker, supplementary. 310

The Speaker: In terms of the development of options and consideration of commercial

interests on the site, has there been a requirement put in there that firstly there is some form of consideration as to the historic use of the site – whether that actually includes a marine interpretation centre as part of the use of the site; whether that is put down as a specification 315

for any person expressing an interest? The President: Minister to reply. The Minister: Thank you, Mr President. 320

I will have to come back to confirm, but in some senses, those are the kinds of things being considered. At the moment, as I said, there has only been one active, very preliminary enquiry.

6. Late arrivals at Ronaldsway Airport – Overtime costs

The Hon. Member for Douglas North (Mr Ashford) to ask the Minister for Infrastructure:

What overtime costs were incurred by the Department because of late arrivals at Ronaldsway Airport in each of the last four years? The President: Question 6, Hon. Member for Douglas North, Mr Ashford. 325

Mr Ashford: Thank you, Mr President. I beg to ask the Minister for Infrastructure, what overtime costs were incurred by the

Department because of late arrivals at Ronaldsway Airport in each of the last four years? The President: Minister to reply. 330

The Minister for Infrastructure (Mr Harmer): Thank you, Mr President. The Department charges an extension fee for late arrivals to cover the cost of staff working

additional hours after 9.30, and to contribute to other airport costs, such as runway lighting. The Department has audited the cost of overtime and compared the result with the income 335

generated from extension fees. I can confirm that there have been no net costs to the Department for late arrivals at Ronaldsway Airport in the last four years.

The President: Supplementary, Mr Speaker. 340

The Speaker: Perhaps looking ahead in terms of the Question I have down for Written Answer, whilst I appreciate that it is not having a direct financial cost to the Department, are the


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consequences of late arrivals actually having an impact on the build-up of time off in lieu for airport staff?

345

The President: Minister to reply. The Minister: Thank you. I will have to confirm that, to be honest, sir.

POLICY AND REFORM

7. Census 2016 – Delay in providing results

The Hon. Member for Douglas East (Mr Robertshaw) to ask the Minister for Policy and Reform:

Why there has been a delay in providing the results of the 2016 census? The President: Question 7, Hon. Member for Douglas East, Mr Robertshaw. 350

Mr Robertshaw: Thank you, Mr President. I beg to ask the Minister for Policy and Reform why there has been a delay in providing the

results of the 2016 census? The President: I call on the Minister to reply, Mr Thomas. 355

The Minister for Policy and Reform (Mr Thomas): Thank you, Mr President. There has been no delay in providing the results of the 2016 census. The results will be

placed on the Order Paper for the March Tynwald, in line with previous announcements. 360

The President: Supplementary, Mr Robertshaw. Mr Robertshaw: Thank you, Mr President. The Minister may consider that there has been no delay. Does he not agree with me, though,

that prompt dissemination of information and publication of data is actually essential to the 365

delivery of efficient and cost-effective government? Is it efficient to take nearly a year to produce the data?

The President: Mr Thomas. 370

The Minister: Thank you, Mr President. I appreciate the Hon. Member’s question, because it enables me to make a helpful point in

the specifics of the question and more generally. It takes so long to produce the census because the census involves returns from around

36,000 households. Many of these returns contain omissions or errors that need to be followed 375

up and all require coding to ensure information such as job description and economic sector are presented in a consistent format.

Some households need chasing to return forms. Many have had many multiple contacts. In fact, the 2011 census was published in April 2012 and the 2006 census in April 2007, so it could be argued that the 2016 census will therefore be available a month earlier than previous 380

reports.


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However, I agree completely with the Hon. Member’s question that we should revisit how we carry out the census. It is vital information for Government planning and I was of his view completely a couple of years ago. It is regrettable that previous Ministers of Policy and Reform made decisions about the census that now put us in the place where we are. 385

The President: Mr Robertshaw. Mr Robertshaw: Mr President, thank you. I am pleased to hear that the Minister agrees with me with regard to the importance of 390

prompt dissemination of information. Does he not therefore think it would have been better to have produced, for the sake of good government, a provisional list with a caveat showing the degree of variation that might be anticipated, thus allowing Government to be better furnished with more information?

395

The President: Minister. The Minister: Thank you, Mr President. That is helpful. The Programme for Government has been drafted in the light of the best

available information in so many areas, including that of the population. Obviously, if the 400

Member is asking what the population was at April 2016, this will only be published at the March sitting. However, Economic Affairs have been providing estimates in public, to Members in this Court and beyond that into the public, in the Council of Ministers’ quarterly report, the last of which indicated a population of around 83,900 at the time of the census in April 2016.

So that sort of information is fully taken into account in the Government Programme. 405

The President: Supplementary, Hon. Member of Council, Mr Cretney. Mr Cretney: Thank you. Could I ask the Minister, will he or officials be reviewing the questions on the census, in 410

particular the one which relates to nationality, where a number of people were offended that they could not put ‘Manx’ down?

The President: Minister to reply. 415

The Minister: Thank you, Mr President. I appreciate the Member’s question. As would be the case normally, of course, ex post, the process will be reviewed and all

questions ... like the one suggested by the Hon. Member in his question will be one of those considered.

420

The President: Final supplementary, Mr Speaker. The Speaker: Given the difficulties obtaining some of the information that the Minister

alluded to, does he anticipate any prosecutions under the Census Act will be required? 425

The Minister: Prosecutions are an entirely separate matter from a political Minister speaking in an open Court.


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8. TV licence fee – Agreement with BBC

The Hon. Member for Ramsey (Mr Hooper) to ask the Minister for Policy and Reform:

Following the recent commitment by the BBC to treat all Crown Dependencies equitably, when he expects an agreement to be reached with the BBC regarding the licence fee on the Isle of Man? The President: Question 8, Hon. Member for Ramsey, Mr Hooper. 430

Mr Hooper: Thank you, Mr President. I appreciate this has already been answered in some respects.

I would like to ask the Minister for Policy and Reform, following the recent commitment by the BBC to treat all Crown Dependencies equitably, when he expects an agreement to be reached with the BBC regarding the licence fee on the Isle of Man? 435

The President: I call on the Minister for Policy and Reform, Mr Thomas. The Minister for Policy and Reform (Mr Thomas): Thank you, Mr President. Discussions with the BBC about the TV licence fee concession for persons aged 75 and over in 440

the Island are ongoing. Agreement on this is anticipated in the next few months. The President: Supplementary, Mr Hooper. Mr Hooper: Just to expand on the Minister’s comments there, are the discussions with the 445

BBC then focused specifically on licences for the over-75s, or are those discussions also being focused on the kind of services the Isle of Man can expect to receive from the BBC?

The President: Mr Thomas. 450

The Minister: Thank you, Mr President and to the Hon. Member for that question. The officers are preparing the ground for the discussion as described by the Chief Minister,

and the scope and extent of the discussion, when it is eventually bought to conclusion, will I am sure … In preparations for that, the decision will be taken about the scope of those discussions.

Obviously Tynwald has had a couple of Select Committees in the last five or six years that 455

provide additional scope and like any good officer, like any good politician, all available information will be taken into account when the scope of those discussions is prepared.

The President: Mr Cretney. 460

Mr Cretney: Just to clarify, is the Minister indicating that the discussions will move on from officer level to political level in due course, in order to perhaps encourage a swift resolution of this matter?


The Minister: Thank you, Mr President. If officers can sort it out themselves, there will be no need for political involvement. I am sure

the Chief Minister will make a decision, with all information, about that very point at the right time. 470


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9. Government services and projects – Evaluation of value for money


What formal processes are in place to evaluate value for money in Government services or projects? The President: Question 9, Hon. Member for Ramsey, Mr Hooper. Mr Hooper: Thank you, Mr President. I would like to ask the Minister for Policy and Reform, what formal processes are in place to 475

evaluate value for money in Government services or projects? The President: Minister to reply. The Minister for Policy and Reform (Mr Thomas): Thank you very much, Mr President. A 480

slightly longer Answer than I would normally like to give. The UK National Audit Office defines ‘value for money’ as the optimal use of resources to

achieve the intended outcome, and it seems to me that this is a good place to start. When considering value, we must also consider from where the assessment of value is coming. A subsidised government service may seem like good value to the public using it, but it may be 485

seen as not value for money from a government perspective. In the same way, Government may change the way a service is delivered, reducing the level

of service provided but still achieving the same overall outcomes, but the public perception may be that the service is no longer value for money because it does not meet their individual need. Evaluation of value for money is a complex and often subjective area – that is the point. 490

In Government, several processes exist which ensure Departments and others are challenged on achieving value for money in the way that services are delivered. There is obviously the annual budgetary process, where Departments are expected to demonstrate to Treasury that they are providing their services as efficiently as possible. Last year, the Internal Audit Division of Treasury, in conjunction with the Cabinet Office, started a process to collect annual efficiency 495

statements from Departments. This was designed to collect details from Departments, Boards and Offices of efficiency savings they had made during the previous financial year. This work is still ongoing.

In addition, in 2014 a major review of all services was undertaken as part of the Scope of Government Review, which included self-assessment and peer review of value for money of 500

more than 140 Government services. Where projects are concerned, several mechanisms exist dependent on the type of project.

For capital projects, the Capital Projects Unit scrutinises projects at all stages of development and delivery to ensure that they are meeting the stated objectives and they represent value for money for the taxpayers. 505

For IT projects, the standard project management methodology used in Government Technology Services includes the development of a detailed business case in which value for money is considered. For non-IT projects, Departments are encouraged to use the standard Government project management methodology, which also includes development of a detailed business case for large projects and a post-project review. 510

The President: Supplementary, Mr Hooper. Mr Hooper: I would like to thank the Minister for that rather detailed response.

Unfortunately, from the sounds of it, it does not seem that there are any specific value for 515


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money processes in place. The Minister has very helpfully described a number of overarching themes; however, to take his point about the subjective assessment of value and the outcome-focused and the public perceptions, does the Minister not consider that an independent body is best placed to address the value for money, so that the public and Members of this House can actually see that there is an independent assessment, rather than Government setting its own 520

targets and then monitoring them? The President: Minister to reply. The Minister: Thank you very much, Mr President. 525

I am very interested to learn more from the Member asking the questions what he perceives are the issues and what we should do about them in the future.

I cannot agree that Government does not actually look for value for money in everything it does. The Government programme clearly sets out that procurement rules and regulations and process and policies are under review. 530

I am sure the Hon. Member is well-meaning in this line of questioning and I look forward to proposals from the Hon. Member in coming months for what might happen next; what Government, in his view, should be looking at.

ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT

10. Land Registry – Digitisation

The Hon. Member for Douglas North (Mr Ashford) to ask the Minister for Economic Development:

What plans he has to digitise the Land Registry?

The President: Question 10, Hon. Member for Douglas North, Mr Ashford. 535

Mr Ashford: Thank you, Mr President. I beg to ask the Minister for Economic Development what plans he has to digitise the Land

Registry? The President: The Minister for Economic Development, the Hon. Member for Rushen, Mr 540

Skelly. The Minister for Economic Development (Mr Skelly): Gura mie eu, Eaghtyrane. A computerised Land Registry system was established in the year 2000. Registration of

private land was phased in across the Island from 2002 and, since then, the Land Registry has 545

registered over 15,000 titles, each title being digitised on the Land Registry system. There is a strong drive to progress with further digitisation of the Land Registry, including

closer integration with the MANNGIS online map system, further digitisation of deeds and direct user access to the system via the internet.

In line with the Digital Strategy, in conjunction with Government Technology Services, the 550

Registry has recently completed a review of its existing processes to assess how they could streamline further and improve the system. During the process, the Registry has also consulted external stakeholders to seek their views on a new system, ensuring we have fully understood the potential that a new system could offer rather than simply replacing the current systems.


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Expressions of interest from firms interested in developing a future system have been sought 555

and presentations from a number of potential venders have been received, setting out their approach.

GTS is also considering how the existing Government-wide platforms, such as the mapping system will feature in the solution. We expect a decision to be made very shortly on the route forward with GTS. 560

Gura mie eu. The President: Supplementary, Mr Ashford. Mr Ashford: Thank you, Mr President. 565

Can I start by welcoming that very positive statement by the Minister in relation to digitisation of the Land Registry.

Would the Minister accept that at the moment a lot of the digitisation is basically internal, so in terms of a user interface, where people are trying to engage externally with the Land Registry, a lot of it still has to be done by physically going and attending the Land Registry? 570

Would the Minister accept that there are a huge amount of savings to be made by basically having a proper digitised Land Registry, so people – who in many cases, are just simply wanting to do basic queries – can actually access the Land Registry remotely, rather than having to go into the Registry itself?

575

The President: The Minister to reply. The Minister: Yes, I would agree wholeheartedly with the Hon. Member that yes we need to

improve our user interface there, and that, of course, is at the heart of the digital strategy for Government and the Land Registry is obviously a key component of that facility. Yes, that is in 580

with the requirements that we have asked for with the expressions of interest: to increase the interaction and use for users.

11. Villa Gaiety complex – Plans regarding contracting out


How his Department plans to proceed in relation to contracting out the Villa and Gaiety complex? The President: Question 11, Hon. Member for Douglas North, Mr Ashford. Mr Ashford: Thank you, Mr President. 585

I beg to ask the Minister for Economic Development how his Department plans to proceed in relation to contracting out the Villa and Gaiety complex?

The President: The Minister to reply. 590

The Minister for Economic Development (Mr Skelly): Gura mie eu, Eaghtyrane. I thank the Hon. Member for his Question, which gives me an opportunity to update all

Members on the Villa Marina and Gaiety Theatre and its future operation.


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The three parties shortlisted to take part in a competitive dialogue stage of the outsourcing process were sent detailed invitations to tender in October 2016. All three parties subsequently 595

withdrew from the process citing various reasons. At this point the tender process was terminated by Procurement Services. Now that this process has concluded it is important that a period of stability follows.

Members will, I am sure, understand there has recently been much uncertainty for both staff and customers of the facilities. The message is now clear: the facilities will continue to be 600

operated by Government as an important national asset. I am encouraged by the engagement of staff, particularly in recent weeks, (A Member: Hear,

hear.) when many suggestions for improvements have been made. These will be fully considered. In particular, the Department is looking to strengthen the current team to allow the facility to reach its full potential and improve its commercial performance whilst continuing to 605

offer a wide range of opportunities for local residents and visitors to attend and participate in a broad range of activities, shows and performances. This process will run concurrently with the wider strategic review of the Department already announced.

I am sure all Hon. Members will join me in recognising the important role the facilities play in supporting our economy, whilst providing an outlet for the Island to showcase its heritage, 610

cultural identity and arts. These principles should remain clearly in focus as we move forward. Mr Cretney: Hear, hear. The President: Supplementary, Mr Ashford. 615

Mr Ashford: Thank you, Mr President. Again, can I start by welcoming that very clear statement of intent by the Minister; that is

very much appreciated. Would the Minister agree with me that there has been concern amongst staff in the complex 620

who have been very worried about where it is going and that has affected morale? Would the Minister agree that the two key things – and he has used these words, near

enough, in his statement – are stability and certainty and that is what everyone now needs moving forward?

625

The President: Minster. The Minister: Gura mie eu, Eaghtyrane. Yes, that was very much the statement I made in the original answer and I would agree that

morale has been at a low point and now we do need that stability and certainty moving forward. 630

I would point out that the exercise that has been conducted was part of the Scope of Government, which I know several Members have raised just yesterday in a briefing about the programme of Government, but what we have done is concluded that body of work, I think to the satisfaction or the mandate from this Court, and now we will be looking at opportunities and ways of improving the performance and the efficiency of the facility which, as I say, is to be 635

regarded as a national cultural arts asset. Mr Cretney: Hear, hear. The President: The Hon. Member for Ayre and Michael, Mr Baker. 640

Mr Baker: Thank you, Mr President. I would like to ask the Minister, could he confirm that there will be a review of the process

that led to the tenders and the subsequent withdrawal of those tenders because, clearly, there


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has been a process to actually offer these assets out to the market place and it has not led to a 645

positive outcome? Does he agree with me that it would be healthy to actually review that process and

understand why we ended up where we did? The President: Minster to reply. 650

The Minister: Gura mie eu. Yes, we have conducted this particular body of work, as I stated, with regard to the remit of

the Scope of Government, which is about alternative means of service delivery, but the Hon. Member rightly points out the procurement issue. I think, as already stated by the Cabinet 655

Minister, embedded within the Programme of Government is a review of procurement. The intention of it currently, putting it into Treasury to make it independent, was a very good

move; now moved, of course, into the Attorney General’s Chambers – also, I think, a very progressive and positive move.

But, I think this is the time to review it and hopefully other Members will pick up that point 660

and support that point about the review of procurement to ensure that we do get value for money – and that is the key element here with regard to procurement: that we are always trying to receive, not always the best cost value – and that can be quite subjective, I might state. But I do pick up his points regarding procurement and I notice a motion further in the Paper.

665

The President: The Hon. Member of the Council, Mr Henderson. Mr Henderson: Gura mie eu, Eaghtyrane. Could I ask the Shirveishagh to clarify his statement of intent, where I understand him now to

be saying that the Villa Marina Gaiety complex will be staying within Government for the 670

foreseeable future? Could he confirm that this is a hugely expensive complex to run for Government? Also, would

he confirm that, by default, or whatever reason, the Villa Marina Arcade and Colonnade has actually, in effect, become sterilised over the years, as opposed to what it was once with its vibrant, different types of shops? What does he propose to do about that? 675

The President: Minster to reply. The Minister: Gura mie eu, Eaghtyrane. Yes, I take the Hon. Member’s point with regard to the cost of operating a facility of this 680

particular nature. It is a costly venture. The budget is £1.36 million, but it is worth pointing out that over £800,000 of that is actually in loan charges in keeping this facility open and available to the people of the Isle of Man. So, yes, there is a cost and we should accept that. We will be looking at ways to improve the performance and the efficiency as we go forward.

I think the Hon. Member also raises a very good point with regard to the importance of these 685

facilities – and the Colonnade and the Arcade as well – as part of the cultural quarter that is intended to be part of the Promenade redevelopment, which we will obviously be discussing a little bit further in the Order Paper too. So, yes, it is a very important part of our heritage, our cultural identity, and a fantastic outlet for our very vibrant arts’ community here on the Isle of Man. 690

The President: Final supplementary, the Hon. Member for Garff, Mrs Caine. Mrs Caine: Thank you, Mr President.


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I would like to ask the Minister if he would agree that sometimes it is not always about cost 695

and that actually to celebrate our cultural identity and the creative industries, they might need some support but there are wide ranging benefits of having creative industries thriving?

And not only that, in the Promenade, would he agree that the Villa Marina Gaiety complex is or has the potential to become the focal point of arts, perhaps at the centre of the cultural quarter, but maybe also as the heart or potentially a national centre for arts and culture? 700

The President: Reply, sir. The Minister: Gura mie eu. Yes, I would actually contest that it already is that iconic location; already a focal point for our 705

creative industries, as we are obviously reviewing that going forward. But, yes, I think the Hon. Member for Garff makes the very same point that the Hon. Member

for Ayre and Michael did and that is about value over cost, and I think it is something we do need to pick up on.

So, yes, we have concluded that body of work; we are going to have this period now of 710

stability and certainty. We are already engaging with the staff and hope that we will be able to drive better performance and value for the people of the Isle of Man.

Gura mie eu.

12. Isle of Man living wage – Analysis for level


What analysis has taken place to establish at what level an Isle of Man living wage would need to be set? The President: Question 12, the Hon. Member for Douglas North, Mr Ashford. 715

Mr Ashford: Thank you, Mr President. I beg to ask the Minister for Economic Development what analysis has taken place to

establish at what level an Isle of Man living wage would need to be set? The President: I call on the Minister, Mr Skelly, to reply. 720

The Minister for Economic Development (Mr Skelly): Gura mie eu, Eaghtyrane. The concept of a living wage is not straightforward as there are a number of different

definitions of a living wage in place in the United Kingdom, all coming with a different methodology for calculation. In addition, some living wages are voluntary and some come with 725

the force of the law, so there is no real clarity at present as to what the living wage calculation would be.

Fortunately, thanks to a motion laid by my hon. colleague, Mr Hooper, this Court will have an opportunity to debate the introduction of one such measure, namely a voluntary living wage. So later in this sitting, the investigation into the option of introducing a living wage is one of the 730

proposed actions within the Programme of Government, which is also to be tabled later. Without wishing to presume the outcome of the debate, if this Court ultimately supports the

option to investigate a living wage, then the Cabinet Office, working with DED and Treasury, will be undertaking the analysis that is needed to determine the options.


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It should be noted for completeness that the Cabinet Office, amongst others, already give 735

evidence to the Minimum Wage Committee and so the issues in respect of a living wage in terms of the wider economic costs and benefits and the impact on employers are well understood and will form part of the impact assessment before a living wage, either voluntary or otherwise, is introduced.

740

The Minister: Supplementary, Mr Ashford. Mr Ashford: Thank you, Mr President. Can I ask the Minister, while he says there are many different measures of the living wage,

which is he is quite correct in, there is a generally recognised one that is done by the Resolution 745

Foundation on behalf of the Living Wage Foundation. Can I ask has the Minimum Wage Committee or his Department actually been in touch with the Resolution Foundation at any point or the Living Wage Foundation in the UK that obviously administers and co-ordinates the voluntary living wage there? Can I ask have there been any points of contact at any time and, if we go to move forward, will the Minister take on board that those are probably the best two 750

organisations to actually be in touch with? The President: Minister. The Minister: Gura mie eu. 755

I am delighted that the Hon. Member has actually highlighted the differentials here. What we do need to be very careful with is also the confusion around a living wage – particularly that is why I mentioned the minimum wage there – and we will be debating that in much greater detail later in the Order Paper.

Yes, I think he highlights two organisations there that will be able to provide some very good 760

beneficial evidence that will be presented to the Minimum Wage Committee and I would suggest that they are a key body that will be conducting the research into the living wage that will be appropriate and applicable for the Isle of Man.

As is well noted already in the UK with regard to a living wage, there is a different rate for London and of course a different rate elsewhere, and we here on the Isle of Man do need to 765

regard ourselves as being different too, and that is why we need to do our own investigations and evidence compiling before it being presented to this Court.

I thank the Hon. Member for raising it and look forward to the debate later. The President: The Hon. Member of the Council, Mr Henderson. 770

Mr Henderson: Gura mie eu, Eaghtyrane. Could the Shirveishagh confirm that actually there is no confusion with what the living wage

is, as it is identified and clearly set out in the Living Wage Foundation UK; and, if there are any issues, it is the fact that the UK Government have set their own, what they call, ‘living wage’, but 775

in fact that is not based on a basket of goods and what you need to live on, whereas the Living Wage Foundation has made a clear statement of intent on their policy: a living wage is something with which you can live on and not just get by on.


The Minister: Gura mie eu. Yes, it is good to hear that Hon. Members have done their research and they do understand

that very clear confusion. The reason I raise that point is because industry, businesses, are confused about it and that is to do with various information put out by media – particularly the 785

UK media, I would suggest, more so.


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Yes, we do need to be very clear as to what a living wage is and why we would want to consider that and that is exactly what we have raised in the Programme of Government that is proposed later in the Order Paper, but we have highlighted that we are going to investigate it.

Thank you. 790

The President: Mr Speaker. The Speaker: Welcoming the work in progress within Government, the question is when and

how the Government hopes to engage with the public on both the methodology of the living 795

wage and the level of the living wage? The Minister: Gura mie eu. Yes, that would be part of the investigations: a consultation with the public and also industry

as well; as I said earlier, they will play a very key part. 800

I know several of you have engaged already with the Minimum Wage Committee, which of course will be bringing forward proposals in due course with regard to that, but the independent body, that is the Minimum Wage Committee do a considerable amount of research that would be very beneficial to feed into the investigations.

When will that happen? I think we need to wait until Mr Hooper’s motion to determine that 805

because we will hopefully be able to find a date that will be determined going forward. My intention, personally, would be that we would hopefully be able to bring it back next year; in other words, October, in terms of our parliamentary session.

810

ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND AGRICULTURE

13.&14. Plastic bags –

Plans to introduce charge, levy or tax The Hon. Member for Ramsey (Dr Allinson) to ask the Minister for Environment, Food and Agriculture:

13. What plans he has to introduce a levy on plastic bags of between 5p and 10p with the income generated to be ring-fenced for environmental projects?

The Hon. Member for Ramsey (Mr Hooper) to ask the Minister for Environment, Food and Agriculture:

14. What plans he has to introduce a charge, levy or tax on plastic bags? The President: Hon. Members, Questions 13 and 14 are substantially the same so I shall take

them together. The Member answering, Mr Baker, will reply to both as one and I shall call both 815

Members to put supplementary questions in the normal way. So, firstly, Hon. Member for Ramsey, Dr Allinson. Dr Allinson: Thank you, Mr President. I would like to ask the Hon. Member for Ayre and Michael what plans the Department for 820

Environment, Food and Agriculture have to introduce a levy on plastic bags of between 5p and 10p, with the income generated to be ring-fenced for environmental projects?

The President: And now the Hon. Member for Ramsey, Mr Hooper.


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Mr Hooper: Thank you, Mr President. 825

I would like to ask the Minister for Environment, Food and Agriculture what plans he has to introduce a charge, levy or tax on plastic bags?

The President: I call on the Member for Environment, Food and Agriculture, Mr Baker, to

reply. 830

A Member for Environment, Food and Agriculture (Mr Baker): Thank you, Mr President. Following correspondence and discussion between the Manx Wildlife Trust and the

Department relating to the potential to introduce a levy for single-use carrier bags, it has been agreed that DEFA will investigate how a voluntary levy could be introduced, the potential 835

benefits, and the potential implications of such an introduction. Officers have already begun to research the implications and issues faced by other

jurisdictions in delivery of such schemes with a view to ensuring that any proposal is effective, efficient and appropriately administered. It is hoped that receipts from such a scheme could be identified to support environmental projects, energy-efficiency projects, and support material 840

purchased for countryside-based volunteer projects, for example, after the cost of administration. It may be that the biodiversity fund held and administered by Manx National Heritage could be a beneficiary of such a scheme.

The Department needs to develop the vires and framework for such a scheme in the first instance and will then develop the concept further. Consideration is also being given to the 845

possibility of using the UNESCO Biosphere brand to endorse such a scheme and a related bag-for-life scheme.

The President: Supplementary, Dr Allinson. 850

Dr Allinson: I would like to thank the Member for his reply. Would he not agree that a 5p charge introduced in the UK has actually reduced bag use by up

to 80% and has led to significant benefits to the environment, particularly the oceans? It is estimated that eight million tonnes of plastic ends up there.

Would he also applaud local initiatives to reduce problematic waste, such as Noa’s 855

Bakehouse, who have recently shifted to biodegradable coffee cups? A Member: Hear, hear. The President: Mr Baker. 860

Mr Baker: Thank you. Yes, I would agree with the statement that the 5p charge introduced in the UK has made a

very significant reduction and I believe that the 80% figure quoted is about right and that does have significant environmental benefits. 865

Also, I do agree that any steps to introduce more sustainable packaging introduced by business or anybody else has to be a good thing for our environment.

The President: Supplementary, Mr Hooper. 870

Mr Hooper: I would like to thank the Hon. Member for his responses. I would just like to ask why is only a voluntary scheme being looked at and will there be a

public consultation on the matter? The President: Mr Baker. 875


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Mr Baker: Thank you, Mr President. The Department felt that, where we are at the moment, it was more appropriate to go for a

voluntary scheme as this was unlikely to be a high legislative priority at this time. The Department believes that a voluntary scheme can be delivered faster and would not need to 880

compete for a slot in the legislative programme. The Department also believes that the majority of the businesses affected, if we were to

implement a scheme along the lines of that in the UK, will already be using a system such as already applies in their UK branches to record and make these payments. In addition, many of our major retailers, who would be the ones that are affected by such a scheme, are likely, as 885

part of their corporate social responsibility programmes, to voluntarily opt-in to such a scheme and therefore a voluntary scheme seems a proportionate response to the issue at this point in time.

We would, however, review the effectiveness of any scheme after a period of operation and it could be made compulsory if necessary. 890

The President: The Hon. Member of Council, Mr Turner. Mr Turner: Thank you, Mr President. Would the Member for the Department acknowledge that the reason the scheme was 895

brought in in the UK nations was because the majority of their waste goes to landfill, whereas our waste goes to the incinerator, the Energy from Waste Plant?

Would he acknowledge that at times that plant has not got enough waste to make it efficient as it is, so would he acknowledge that the reasons for introducing the schemes are quite different in the UK nations than they would be here? Would he admit this is just another tax on 900

people’s weekly shopping? Mr Baker: Thank you, Mr President. I cannot speak for the UK Government in terms of why they introduced such a scheme, but I

do believe it was primarily environmentally motivated. However, I think the statement is correct 905

in terms of the majority going to landfill in that jurisdiction. In terms of the Isle of Man, you are quite correct: the majority of our waste does go to the

Energy from Waste Plant and my information is that it does have some significant spare capacity at present. However, there is still an environmental issue around the use of plastic bags. (Two Members: Hear, hear.) and, therefore, it is potentially still a very beneficial scheme, purely from 910

an environmental point of view. A Member: Hear, hear. The President: The Hon. Member for Douglas East, Miss Bettison. 915

Miss Bettison: Thank you, Mr President. Would the Hon. Member just confirm to us all that the environmental projects supported

would be local, Manx-based projects? 920

The President: Mr Baker to reply. Mr Baker: Thank you, Mr President. The scheme, to date, has not been sufficiently progressed to be definitive as to which

charities would benefit, but I would agree with the Hon. Member for Douglas East that we 925

should be supporting Manx-based charities and the specific engagement with the Manx Wildlife Trust and the mention of the biodiversity fund held by Manx National Heritage should give some confidence in that regard.


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The President: The Hon. Member for Middle, Mr Shimmins. 930

Mr Shimmins: Thank you, Mr President. Would the Member for Ayre and Michael agree that this is about changing people’s

behaviour rather than raising tax for the benefit of our environment and our Island? Will he confirm that, if the major retailers do not abide by a voluntary scheme, that the

Department will bring forward legislation in short order to address this issue which is of interest 935

to many people on the Island? The President: Mr Baker. Mr Baker: Thank you, Mr President. 940

I do agree with the Hon. Member’s comments that it is about changing behaviour, and I do agree that this is an issue that is very pertinent for the vast majority of Island residents.

I would be very hopeful that the major retailers that we do have on the Island, who do have corporate social responsibility programmes, will voluntarily adopt this. They tend to be very receptive to public opinion and I would therefore hope that they would get on board with this, 945

but that if that was not the case then the Department’s objectives of looking after the environment would really be in tune with bringing forward some more prescriptive action to drive the outcomes that we want.

The President: Final supplementary, Mr Ashford. 950

Mr Ashford: Thank you, Mr President. The Hon. Member of the Department has already stated that quite a lot of commercial

operations currently have this in place – a lot of the big retailers. Can he confirm to the Hon. Court how he feels a voluntary scheme would work since many of the big retailers already have 955

it in place? Can he confirm, does any of the money raised currently remain on Island or does it all go off-

Island? And, in a voluntary scheme, how he would ensure some of that money actually stays on Island when the big retailers at the moment, as far as I am aware, pool it with their UK operations? 960

The President: Reply, sir. Mr Baker: Thank you, Mr President. I cannot comment on the detail of individual retailers’ schemes, because I just do not have 965

that information to hand. However, I do know that an number of retailers who are charging for carrier bags, do make substantial donations to charities on the Island, and I would hope that that would continue and that, if we were to re-emphasise the importance of this to the Island, then we could persuade them to support the local economy in that way.

15. Planning enforcement system – Fixed penalty notices

The Hon. Member for Ramsey (Mr Hooper) to ask the Minister for Environment, Food and Agriculture:

What plans he has to introduce fixed penalty notices into the planning enforcement system?


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The President: Question 15, the Hon. Member for Ramsey, Mr Hooper. 970

Mr Hooper: Thank you, Mr President. I would like to ask the Hon. Member for Environment, Food and Agriculture what plans he

has to introduce fixed penalty notices into the planning system? 975

The President: I call on the Member for the Department, Mr Baker. A Member for the Department (Mr Baker): Thank you, Mr President. The Department is aware that some adjacent jurisdictions have recently introduced fixed

penalty notices for planning offences. 980

In Scotland and in Northern Ireland these are now used in the event of breach of enforcement notices and we will monitor their effectiveness with interest. It is expected that the enforcement elements of the Town and Country Planning Act will be considered as part of the forthcoming high-level review of planning and it is envisaged that the outcome of that review will inform any changes to the powers that the Department currently has. 985

The President: Supplementary, Mr Hooper. Mr Hooper: Given that there are so few planning enforcement notices issued – two in the

last year and only 15 the year before – does the Hon. Member feel that this perhaps indicates an 990

unwillingness to issue enforcement notices by the Planning Department and, if so, is this down to the fact that they can only enforce these notices by going through the courts?


The President: Mr Baker. Mr Baker: Thank you, Mr President. I do agree with the Hon. Member for Ramsey’s statement that the level of enforcement

notices issued by the Department is extremely low. There are a number of reasons for that. 1000

However, I would confirm that the Department is currently operating a more robust policy towards enforcement.

I would, however, caution against just purely looking at the enforcement notice statistics as an indicator of how well enforcement is working, and the Department is very focused on trying to drive the right outcomes to regularise planning situations and to work with applicants to 1005

actually get their developments within the right framework. So there is a lot of good work that goes on within the Department to actually bring situations

into good order without the necessity to formally issue enforcement notices. That said, I would expect the volume of enforcement notices issued to increase going forward.

The Hon. Member makes a good point about the need to go through a legal process and it is 1010

my observation that actually even without going through a court process there is an awful lot of work involved in issuing enforcement proceedings which takes a lot of time and officer effort, and that is not particularly helpful but it is the reality for the system we have at the moment. Again, there is going to be a full review of planning undertaken imminently and I would expect this all to be within the scope of that review process. 1015


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POLICY AND REFORM

16. UK Investigatory Powers Act 2016 – Plans to extend to the Isle of Man


Whether the UK’s Investigatory Powers Act 2016 will be extended to the Isle of Man?

The President: Question 16, the Hon. Member for Ramsey, Mr Hooper. Mr Hooper: Thank you, Mr President. 1020

I would like to ask the Minister for Policy and Reform whether the UK’s Investigatory Powers Act 2016 will be extended to the Isle of Man?

The President: Minister for Policy and Reform, Mr Thomas, to reply. 1025

The Minister for Policy and Reform (Mr Thomas): Thank you, Mr President. There are currently no plans for the UK’s Investigatory Powers Act 2016 to be extended to

the Isle of Man. A Member: All done. 1030

The President: Mr Hooper. Mr Hooper: Thank you, Mr President. If there are no plans to extend the Act to the Isle of Man, can I ask the Minister why was the 1035

permissive clause requested to be included in the Bill by the Council of Ministers? The President: Minister. The Minister: Thank you, Mr President. 1040

I appreciate the Hon. Member’s questions today and also before Christmas, when I believe he was at least the first person to approach the Department in respect of the information that was published in the Council of Ministers’ proceedings about this extension.

Mr President, Council agreed to inclusion of the permissive extend clause purely for future contingency purposes. The decision was made after the views of the Department of Home 1045

Affairs and the Attorney General’s Chambers had been sought. Some concerns have been expressed that the Island’s Interception of Communications Act

and the Regulation of Surveillance Act – in particular the first of these Acts – is outdated and not adequate for the modern digital communications age. It is recognised that this area is always going to be sensitive and at times difficult, balanced between ensuring that law enforcement 1050

authorities have the powers they need to investigate and prevent serious crime and the right to privacy.

At some point the Island’s legislative framework will need to be modernised, although it is much more likely that this will be by a new Act of Tynwald rather than by the extension of some or all of an Act of parliament. 1055

The President: Further supplementary, Mr Hooper. Mr Hooper: Hopefully a final supplementary here.


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In the Council of Ministers’ summary of proceedings it stated that the Cabinet Office 1060

prepared a paper to the Council to recommend this clause be included. Will the Minister commit to publishing that paper, given the importance of this particular Act?


The Minister: Thank you, Mr President. What I can certainly commit to is that in matters like this the Council of Ministers would take

the decision, and I think it is right to say that Tynwald’s approval would be sought before a decision about the possible extension of any of the substantive provisions of this Act or any other Act like it. 1070

Obviously this Council decision was taken before my time and it is for the Chief Minister to decide what can be made available from the Council of Ministers’ deliberations, but I will investigate further with officers and the Chief Minister as to what he is prepared to publish and what he can publish on the matter at this time.

17. TV licences for over-75s – Arrangements in Jersey; progress for Isle of Man

The Hon. Member for Rushen (Mr Speaker) to ask the Minister for Policy and Reform:

What the arrangements are for the free TV licence for over-75s in Jersey; how they differ from the Isle of Man; what discussions have been held with the BBC; and whether the BBC will be fully funding a TV licence for over-75s in the Isle of Man?

The President: Final Question, 17, Hon. Member for Rushen, Mr Speaker. 1075

The Speaker: Thank you, Mr President. Inasmuch as there is anything to add, what the arrangements are for free TV licences for

over-75s in Jersey; how they differ from the Isle of Man; what discussions have been held with the BBC; and whether the BBC will be fully funding a TV licence for over-75s in the Isle of Man? 1080

I ask that, sir, of the Minister for Policy and Reform. The President: Minister for Policy and Reform, Mr Thomas. The Minister for Policy and Reform (Mr Thomas): Thank you, Mr President, and I will add the 1085

supplementary information, for completeness in Hansard. In Jersey, there is a long-standing means-tested TV licence fee concession under local

legislation for residents of that island who are aged 75 and over. This concession allows eligible residents to claim the cost of the TV licence from the Jersey government. Until 1st September 2016 in the Isle of Man, there was a universal TV licence fee concession for Island residents 1090

under the UK’s Communications (Television Licensing) Regulations 2004. As Members are aware, the last administration decided to move to a means-tested

concession, so the UK was asked to amend those Regulations. But later, by this administration and by this Court, a universal concession under Manx legislation was established on 1st December 2016. This concession is fully funded by the Isle of Man Government. 1095

In July 2015, the UK government announced that it had agreed with the BBC that responsibility for policy and funding of age-related TV licence fee concessions would transfer to the Corporation from the middle of 2020, after a two-year transitional period. Since that time, officers from the Cabinet Office have met with the BBC in London and there have been a


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number of telephone discussions with relevant officers in the BBC, both on a one-to-one basis 1100

and in conjunction with Jersey and Guernsey. During all of these discussions it has been emphasised to the BBC that we expect equality of

treatment for the Island’s TV licence fee payers when the Corporation takes over the policy in this area. That dialogue, that negotiation, is ongoing.

Mr President, I can say that the discussions have been constructive, but I am not yet in a 1105

position to say exactly what costs relating to the over-75s TV licence fee concession the BBC will cover in respect of Isle of Man residents.

The President: Supplementary, Mr Speaker. 1110

The Speaker: Just for information, if the Hon. Member has it, could he advise what level of income a free TV licence is available at for Jersey residents and whether he anticipates that the arrangement going forward will be a means-tested arrangement for everyone or whether it will be a universal system going forward for everyone?

Presumably the same system will apply in Jersey, the Isle of Man and the United Kingdom, if 1115

his comments are there about equality between the United Kingdom and the Crown Dependencies.


The Minister: Thank you, Mr President. I think in actual fact speculation about what the BBC arrangements will be, even for the UK, is

still slightly premature, because as far as I remember it, the charter is for renewal on 1st January. ‘Equitable’ is a word that is subject to the context, and this situation in Jersey, Guernsey and the Isle of Man is now different. But in Jersey, as the Hon. Member, Mr Speaker, observes, it 1125

is a means-tested arrangement. Our cost in the Isle of Man is greater than the amount the Jersey government will be

receiving from the BBC, according to their press release, and I have taken further research on exactly the levels of income and how that income is determined in the Isle of Man, which I will circulate to Hon. Members and will include it in the high-level principles review of means testing 1130

which, if the Government programme is approved today, will be undertaken for the Isle of Man by May 2017.

The President: Hon. Member of Council, Mr Turner. 1135

Mr Turner: Thank you, Mr President. Would the Minister acknowledge, given the very long and detailed answer he has given, it is

an exact reason why we should not be fiddling around and tinkering and messing with this all the time?

Would he acknowledge that the public of the Isle of Man have to pay the licence fee, not out 1140

of choice but have to if they want to own a television, just like any other person in England, Scotland, Wales and the Channel Islands? Really it is all irrelevant and what we should be ensuring is, would he agree, that our licence payers for the BBC services receive exactly the same privileges as somebody sat watching their television in Yorkshire, Scotland or the Outer Hebrides? And would he assure us they are just going to get on with it and sort this out? 1145

Mr Cretney: Hear, hear. The President: Minister to reply. 1150

The Minister: Thank you, Mr President.


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The principle that we should get on with this and sort this out is a valid one and I am sure the Chief Minister has that in mind as he sets out his workstream to tackle this,

Secondly, it is not the case that the service received in the Orkneys or the Shetlands is equal to the service that you receive in the middle of London, because there are all different types of 1155

masts and equipment involved and there are commercial realities around that. Thirdly, the whole situation with Manx Radio and the 50-plus years of history with Manx

Radio and the political positions taken inside the Isle of Man also affect this decision. Issues of Tynwald being covered are relevant, language broadcasting are relevant.

So what I can assure this Hon. Court is these matters need to be considered again in the light 1160

of taking into account the context and all of the previous considerations; and let’s hope the Chief Minister can actually put together a workstream to tackle this in a reasonable amount of time.

The President: Hon. Member of Council, Mr Cretney. 1165

The Minister: Delegated to the Minister. Mr Cretney: Yes, could I ask the Minister that, when he takes up this matter at a political

level, which I believe is necessary, that the conversation should include that the Isle of Man is 1170

already at a deficit when compared, for example, to Jersey, because Jersey has support from the BBC towards their radio provision. We are already behind that and we need to catch up. We need to, as my colleague has already indicated, have fair treatment (The Speaker: Hear, hear.) and it needs to be taken up at a political level.

1175

Mr Turner: Hear, hear. The President: Reply, sir. The Minister: Thank you, Mr President. 1180

The Chief Minister and the Minister for Policy and Reform, and the senior officers in the Cabinet Office have a list of 30 workstreams that we are trying to prioritise. Before Christmas, this was acknowledged as being an important workstream, and I can assure the Hon. Member of Council that this is being given political attention and all the issues that he has raised will be taken into account when we work out the timetable in the next steps. 1185

The President: Hon. Members, that brings us to the end of Questions for Oral Answer.


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Questions for Written Answer

TREASURY

18. Operation Leopard – Details of investigation and further action

The Hon. Member of the Council, Mr Anderson, to ask the Minister for the Treasury:

Whether any investigations were undertaken by the Police into the complainants or their businesses in Operation Leopard; with what outcome; and what further action is proposed by HM Acting Attorney General as a result of facts disclosed during the trials of the then Attorney General?

The Minister for the Treasury (Mr Cannan): The Treasury had only some limited involvement

in the operation named by the Isle of Man Constabulary as Operation Leopard. The Treasury had 1190

no involvement in Operation Leopard as an investigating body; rather it was a party to some of the events that were investigated.

I am informed by HM Acting Attorney General that, as one would expect, if evidence comes to light that a person who has been a complainant or their businesses may have acted unlawfully, then separate police or regulator investigations would be undertaken concerning 1195

that evidence. I understand from HM Acting Attorney General that this was the case in the above instance

and, due to the Attorney General’s Chambers being conflicted, independent counsel was engaged. The information gathered during the separate investigation to that of Operation Leopard was reviewed by independent counsel and I am informed by HM Acting Attorney 1200

General that the decision was made that no further action be taken.

19. Operation Leopard – Costs orders


Whether as a result of Operation Leopard any costs orders were made by the courts against any third party; if so how much was awarded and what action has been taken to recover the funds due to the taxpayer?

The Minister for the Treasury (Mr Cannan): The Treasury is not aware of any cost orders

made by the court against any third parties during Operation Leopard or the resulting two criminal trials that took place. 1205


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20. Operation Leopard – Cost


What the total costs of Operation Leopard were to Government, including police salaries, legal fees and ancillary costs?

The Minister for the Treasury (Mr Cannan): The majority of costs to Government associated with Operation Leopard, which commenced on 5th May 2011, have been incurred by the following:

(i) The Department of Home Affairs, Constabulary. (ii) The Cabinet Office and its predecessor the Chief Secretary’s Office. 1210

(iii) The Treasury. (iv) The Chief Registrar’s Office (including Court related expenditure). Invoices relating to expenditure associated with the following Department and office were

referred for payment through the Cabinet Office, or its predecessor the Chief Secretary’s Office: (i) The Department of Economic Development (Government Technology Services). 1215

(ii) The Attorney General’s Chambers. It has not been possible to separately identify the cost of police and existing staff salaries.

Police overtime has been included. The total costs that can be separately identified as having been incurred due to Operation Leopard up to the 24 May 2014 are £2,563,051.

21. Payments under Financial Directive 30 – Details

The Hon. Member for Onchan (Ms Edge) to ask the Minister for the Treasury:

How many payments, broken down by individual Departments and value, have been paid under Financial Directive 30 over the last five years by (a) Departmental approved payments (under £10,000) and (b) Treasury approved payments (over £10,000)?

The Minister for the Treasury (Mr Cannan): An analysis of payments made, by Department, 1220

to settle employment disputes on termination of employment under the terms of Financial Directive 30, for each of the last five calendar years is shown in the table below:

Department 2012 2013 2014 2015 2016

Cabinet Office 0 1 0

Community Culture & Leisure 1 1

Economic Development 0 0 1 0 1

Education & Children 3 4 3 1 3

Environment, Food and Agriculture 0 2 0 0 0

Health & Social Care 1 3 4

Health 1 0

Home Affairs 0 0 0 1 0

Infrastructure 1 0 1 2 2

Social Care 4 2

Treasury 0 0 0 1 1

Grand Total 10 9 6 9 11


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The combined value of the settlements in each of those years was:

2012 – £454,474 2013 – £138,116 2014 – £151,365 2015 – £179,200 2016 – £192,509

These figures have not been broken down by Department, because in view of the small 1225

numbers of cases involved, to do so may breach data protection. The £10,000 threshold referred to in the question was introduced into Financial Directive 30

only from August 2014. I can confirm that the numbers of FD30 payments made since that date which have exceeded £10,000, and required Treasury approval, are as follows:

2014 – 1 2015 – 5 2016 – 3

The legal basis for settlement agreements approved under Financial Directive 30 is contained 1230

within section 157 of the Employment Act 2006, which provides for an Industrial Relations Officer to endeavour to promote a settlement of a dispute without recourse to an Employment Tribunal. The legislation also provides for the Manx Industrial Relations Service to act whether or not there has been a formal complaint to the Tribunal.

The Senior Industrial Relations Officer (IRO) has confirmed that almost all settlement 1235

agreements involve a financial payment from the employer to the employee and that the role her Office performs in achieving settlements provides employers with a cost effective and quick method of dealing with individual disputes within the workplace.

22. Pinewood Film Advisors Ltd – Investment proposals evaluated

The Hon. Member for Ramsey (Mr Hooper) to ask the Minister for the Treasury:

How many potential investment proposals were evaluated by Pinewood Film Advisors Ltd in each financial year since their appointment in October 2012?

The Minister for the Treasury (Mr Cannan): Pinewood Film Advisors consider dozens of media projects on an annual basis. A ‘weeding out’ process is then undertaken which includes 1240

discussion with the producers and a review and analysis of the project. After this initial process it will be apparent that some are not suitable for Treasury investment through the Media Development Fund.

A number of projects will move forward to the next stage which involves discussion between Pinewood Film Advisors and Treasury officials. The number which have reached the discussion 1245

stage and progressed no further are:

Year Number of Evaluations

2012-13 (part year) 5

2013-14 12

2014-15 13

2015-16 11

2016-17 (to date) 9


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POLICY AND REFORM

23. Douglas Masterplan – Progress and statement

The Hon. Member for Rushen (Mr Speaker) to ask the Minister for Policy and Reform:

What progress has been made on the implementation of the Douglas Masterplan; and if he will make a statement?

The Minister for Policy and Reform (Mr Thomas): The Central Douglas Masterplan provides a

framework for co-ordinated development and enhancement of our capital. It sets out a range of proposals of varying complexity that if implemented will assist in supporting our Island’s 1250

economy and the quality of life of residents. At its core, the Masterplan is about encouraging investment.

There are two significant current projects underway which are influenced by the Masterplan. Firstly, the process of disposing of Lord Street and Parade Street sites to allow for mixed use development is one of the main proposals within the Masterplan and has the potential to 1255

transform this key gateway of Douglas. Secondly, the Masterplan identifies the potential to include an enhanced area around the

Gaiety Theatre and Villa Marina to celebrate and make the most of this cultural asset. This is being considered as part of the redevelopment of the Promenade.

Successful implementation of the Masterplan requires input from a variety of stakeholders 1260

and officers are working with relevant parties to investigate the feasibility of projects including around Strand Street which could, if delivered, improve circulation within the retail area and provide additional car parking.

Douglas Borough Council is a key partner in bringing forward projects identified by the Masterplan and one example of their commitment is the provision of the lighting aspects of the 1265

Promenade project, something that the Masterplan identifies as being important in creating an attractive place throughout the day.

The private sector also has an important role in bringing the Masterplan to life. Several of the projects identified in the Masterplan relate to privately owned land, some in multiple ownership. This creates complexity but also great opportunity to bring forward visionary 1270

proposals that have the ability to redefine key spaces within Douglas town centre. One example of the private sector implementing a proposal set out within the Masterplan is

a current development within Strand Street which will create a larger sized, modern retail unit by redeveloping three smaller units. This will help to serve demand for larger retail space as identified by the Retail Sector Strategy. 1275

Another proposal within the Masterplan is the continuation of the resurfacing of the shopping area to ensure the environment supports viability and vitality. Castle Street will be the first of the remaining areas to benefit from enhancement and these works will be coordinated with the future promenade scheme.

Important progress is being made and the Masterplan remains a significant factor in shaping 1280

how our Island’s capital evolves to meet the needs of our community and supports our economy. Implementation of the Masterplan continues to be a co-ordinated effort involving central government, Douglas Borough Council and the private sector and several projects are underway to realise the aims and objectives of the Masterplan.

Finally, the Programme for Government includes an action for the Outcome ‘Responsible 1285

Island’ which states ‘Review and consider public/private approaches to financing capital and regeneration schemes.’ This will help to ensure that we continue to support redevelopment of vacant or underutilised town centre sites.


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EDUCATION AND CHILDREN

24. Section 29, Education Act 2001 – Unauthorised absence 2015-16

The Hon. Member for Rushen (Mr Speaker) to ask the Minister for Education and Children:

For the purposes of section 29 of the Education Act 2001, and for the academic year 2015-16: (a) how many instances there were of failing to attend regularly; (b) how many prosecutions were brought to the courts; (c) how many fixed penalty notices were:

(i) issued; (ii) paid; (iii) written off; and (iv) disposed of in another manner, and if so, how; and

(d) whether a fixed penalty notice issued under section 29A of the Act would have to be disclosed on any check with the Disclosure and Barring Service?

The Minister for Education and Children (Mr Cregeen): (a) For the academic year 2015-16 1290

there were 191,400 sessions of authorised absence and 24,175 sessions of unauthorised absence. A session is either a morning or afternoon period.

(b) No prosecutions have been brought to the courts during 2015-16. (c) In regard to fixed penalty notices the situation is:

(i) Issued – 11 1295

(ii) Paid – 11 (iii) Withdrawn – 0 (iv) 0

(d) A fixed penalty notice issued under section 29A of the Act does not need to be disclosed on a basic or standard check under the Disclosure and Barring Scheme. The Department of 1300

Home Affairs have informed the Department of Education and Children that there currently is no police policy in respect of disclosure of these penalties and under an enhanced process each case would be considered on its own merits.

25. Manx National Anthem – Whether taught in schools

The Hon. Member for Rushen (Mr Speaker) to ask the Minister for Education and Children:

Whether the Manx National Anthem is taught in schools?

The Minister for Education and Children (Mr Cregeen): The Department’s responses from all schools indicate that the Manx National Anthem is taught in all primary schools and taught or used on formal occasions in all secondaries.


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ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND AGRICULTURE

26. Live animal exports – Numbers of sheep and cattle

The Hon. Member for Garff (Mrs Caine) to ask the Minister for Environment, Food and Agriculture:

How many live animals were exported from the Isle of Man in (a) 2015 and (b) 2016, broken down by sheep and cattle each month?

The Minister for Environment, Food and Agriculture (Mr Boot): Live animal export data is 1305

published monthly in arrears on the DEFA website on the ‘Export data – sheep and cattle’ page at the following web link:

https://www.gov.im/about-the-government/departments/environment-food-and-agriculture/agriculture-directorate/export-data-sheep-and-cattle/ 1310

Export data includes young stock, breeding stock, stores (sold for onward fattening) and Fatstock (ready for slaughter). Export data is based on data provided to the Department pre-export.

On some occasions and for various reasons not all animals are exported as planned and numbers are readjusted accordingly. This can lead to minor adjustments to the figures in the 1315

preceding quarter. Figures are available back to 2007. In addition to the data below, the Department also published a calculator that allows

producers to calculate the net difference in sending Fatstock to the local abattoir vs exporting to the UK.

https://www.gov.im/categories/business-and-industries/agriculture/livestock-commodity-1320

pricing/ The data on the website is reproduced below in Tables 1-4 with additional graphs (Figures 1

and 2) detailing trends in export of cattle and sheep respectively from 2006. The Department is aware of the ongoing trend of increasing export and is actively looking at 1325

ways to improve the operation and thus attractiveness of putting animals through the Meat Plant. It should be noted however that increasing export corresponds with increase in overall production levels and throughput at the Meat Plant is still at a sustainable level (see Figures 1 & 2). A review is currently underway to explore alternative options to deliver an on-island slaughter service with the initial review of options due to conclude in February 2017. 1330

https://www.gov.im/about-the-government/departments/environment-food-and-agriculture/agriculture-directorate/export-data-sheep-and-cattle/

https://www.gov.im/about-the-government/departments/environment-food-and-agriculture/agriculture-directorate/export-data-sheep-and-cattle/

https://www.gov.im/categories/business-and-industries/agriculture/livestock-commodity-pricing/

https://www.gov.im/categories/business-and-industries/agriculture/livestock-commodity-pricing/


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HEALTH AND SOCIAL CARE

27. A&E patients – Numbers and percentage discharged without treatment

The Hon. Member for Douglas North (Mr Ashford) to ask the Minister for Health and Social Care:

How many A&E patients and what percentage of patients seen were discharged without treatment in each of the last five years?

The Minister for Health and Social Care (Mrs Beecroft): Noble’s Hospital A&E Department

regularly reviews the percentage of patients who leave A&E after they have been initially registered at reception but before they have been seen by a clinical decision-maker. High rates of patients leaving without being seen by a clinical decision-maker are associated with perceptions of excessive waiting times in A&E and poorer patient experience. 1335

The UK NHS also records this statistic and it makes up one of the suite of measurements that each A&E department reports on each month to NHS England. Within the UK, each hospital is given a 5% tolerance for patients who leave the department without being seen by a clinician.

In the Isle of Man, the figures are as follows: 1340

Year Number of patients

left without being seen Total number of A&E attendances

% of patients left without being seen

2012 362 27250 1.33%

2013 617 26858 2.30%

2014 769 27386 2.81%

2015 827 27166 3.04%

2016 1127 27733 4.06%

Although the Noble’s A&E department is performing within 5% UK NHS standard, there is a

worsening trend year-on-year over the past 5 years, despite the overall number of attendances at A&E remaining roughly the same.

During 2016, particularly at the beginning of the year when the hospital was suffering severe 1345

bed capacity problems, the A&E department experienced a number of occasions where there were insufficient beds in the hospital to transfer patients out of A&E who required admission. This created a situation known as ‘exit block’ where the department became gridlocked for a period – unfortunately in these situations, waiting times to be seen by a doctor increased to eight hours as all available space within A&E was occupied with patients awaiting admission. 1350

Further analysis of the attendance data shows that during the days where an ‘exit block’ situation arose, a much higher than normal number of patients decided to leave A&E without being seen by a doctor.

As outlined in Tynwald previously, the A&E team are in the process of a large scale improvement project to decrease waiting times, decrease the numbers of admissions into 1355

hospital from A&E and improve patient satisfaction. Highlights from the improvement project include:

Increase in the number of Consultants in Emergency Medicine from one to three, thereby increasing senior presence in the department from 9 a.m. – 5 p.m. Monday to 1360

Friday to 8 a.m. – 11 p.m., 7 days-a-week – these consultants are commencing in April 2017

Employment of a GP working within A&E from 8 a.m. – 6 p.m. seeing patients who are attend with a minor illness


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Increase the number of ‘See and Treat’ nurses working within A&E to a critical mass 1365

where patients attending with minor injuries can be seen within a completely nurse-led unit. This is already happening 2.5 days per week following the appointment of our Nurse Consultant in Urgent Care

Employment of two Acute Medicine Consultants to work within the Acute Medical Unit (which accepts A&E patients) – these consultants will increase the senior medical 1370

presence on AMU, increase discharge rates and therefore improve flow of patients from A&E to AMU

Improved communication via social media when A&E is suffering from increased waiting times along with provision of information on alternative sources of health care, such as Ramsey Minor Injuries Unit, high street pharmacies, GPs or MEDS out of hours. 1375

28. Drug-related deaths – Numbers recorded

The Hon. Member for Douglas North (Mr Ashford) to ask the Minister for Health and Social Care:

How many drug-related deaths were recorded in each of the last five years?

The Minister for Health and Social Care (Mrs Beecroft): Drug-related deaths registered in

each of the last five years for which data are available were:

2011 2

2012 2

2013 5

2014 9

2015 4

This information is taken from death certificates (and hence reflects the year of issue of the 1380

death certificate rather than the actual date of death. It is possible that a death may have occurred in the year prior to issue of the death certificate where an inquest has been necessary).

The definition of drug related death is: all those deaths recorded where the underlying cause of death has been coded as one of the following categories:

1385

Accidental poisoning by drugs, medicaments and biological substances

Intentional self-poisoning by drugs, medicaments and biological substances

Poisoning by drugs, medicaments and biological substances, undetermined intent

Assault by drugs, medicaments and biological substances

Mental and behavioural disorders due to drug use (excluding alcohol and tobacco) 1390


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29. Health care assistants at Hospital– Gender split

The Hon. Member for Rushen (Mr Speaker) to ask the Minister for Health and Social Care:

What the gender split is for health care assistants at Noble’s Hospital, and what affirmative action will be taken to redress the balance?

The Minister for Health and Social Care (Mrs Beecroft): No specific action has been taken to

redress the balance. The Isle of Man Government is an equal opportunities employer and unless there are genuine occupational qualifications, recruitment is not targeted at either gender. The Department is currently working with the Department of Economic Development to develop the caring workforce and in particular provide career pathways and increase opportunities to gain 1395

professional qualification for those working in the care sector, such as health care assistants, which it is hoped will make it an attractive sector to more candidates of all genders.

The gender split is as follows:

Gender

Female Male Total

HCA 155 23 178

SHCA 55 6 61

Total 210 29 239

INFRASTRUCTURE

30. Airport manning system – Review, results and improvements

The Hon. Member for Rushen (Mr Speaker) to ask the Minister for Infrastructure:

Whether a review has been done of the team-based self-rostering manning system at the airport; what the results are and what improvements are to be made; and whether there has been significant accumulated time off in lieu and what steps are being taken to honour this?

The Minister for Infrastructure (Mr Harmer): Team Based Self Rostering (TBSR) was 1400

introduced to the Department by the unions and implemented in the Apron Loaders section at the Isle of Man Airport in July 2015. The scheme is managed by the section supervisors.

‘Self rostering’ enables a flexible system of attendance that provides staff with the capacity to choose their shifts during a specified period within certain guidelines.

The system is continually monitored and a formal review meeting was planned for 1405

13th January 2017. However this was cancelled at short notice due to the illness of a key employee representative. The meeting will be rescheduled as soon as possible. Until then we cannot advise on any planned improvements.

Some members of staff within the section have accumulated significant levels of TOIL (time off in lieu). This is mainly attributable to substantial periods of long-term sickness during 2016, 1410

but also to the underpinning roster. Steps to reduce the levels of TOIL will be discussed with the supervisors and staff when the rescheduled review takes place.


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MANX UTILITIES AUTHORITY

31. Sewerage operations – Deficit

The Hon. Member for Douglas North (Mr Ashford) to ask the Chairman of the Manx Utilities Authority:

What the deficit of the sewerage element of the Manx Utilities Authorities operations was in each of the last four years; and what the expected deficit is for the forthcoming financial year?

The Chairman of the Manx Utilities Authority (Dr Allinson):

Financial Year Operating

Surplus/(deficit)

Comments

2012-13 -£0.379 million Deficit


2014-15 £0.453 million Surplus



Notes: 1. The actual figures above have been taken from the operating surplus/deficit after depreciation as shown in the published financial statements of the Manx Utilities Authority (and formerly the Isle of Man Water and Sewerage Authority) with finance costs relating to borrowings from Government used to finance sewerage assets. 2. The surplus for 2014-15 was as a result of the introduction of the sewerage charge increasing income by more than the reduction of Government grant funding in the year. 3. Additional income from the sewerage charge in 2014-15 and sewerage rate in 2015-16 resulted in a reduction in Government grant funding of £3.8 million from 2014-15 to 2015-16. Prior to (and since) 2015-16 Government grant funding has been reducing by £1 million a year, from £9.0 million in 2012-13 to £2.2 million in 2016-17. 4. Government grant funding includes funding for sewerage operations and flood risk management and was £15.5 million during 2009-10. The sewerage operations grant funding is expect to cease by 2018-19; the flood risk management grant funding is expected to continue and is currently £0.5 million per year. 5. The increase in deficit for 2015-16 (when compared to 2013-14) is due to the introduction of interest charges on Consolidated Loans Fund borrowings from Government used for sewerage infrastructure investment. The impact of the interest rate of 1.0% increased costs in 2015-16 by approximately £1 million and the further increase to 1.5% in 2016-17 is expected to increase costs by a further £½ million. 6. During the 5 years, annual operating costs of sewerage operations (excluding depreciation and finance costs) have been reduced by over £1 million. 7. The ‘forthcoming year’ is assumed to refer to the 12 months ending 31 March 2017.

32. Sewerage charge/rates – Amounts raised

The Hon. Member for Douglas North (Mr Ashford) to ask the Chairman of the Manx Utilities Authority:

How much has been raised by the sewerage charge/rates in each of the last four financial years; and how much he expects to be raised in the forthcoming financial year?


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The Chairman of the Manx Utilities Authority (Dr Allinson): 1415

Financial Year Amount Comments

2012-13 £nil

2013-14 £nil

2014-15 £1.933 million £50 charge per property

2015-16 £3.441 million 62.19p/£ Rate

2016-17 £5.074 million 92.00p/£ Rate

Notes: 1. Sewerage Rate income is net of early settlement discounts allowed. 2. The ‘forthcoming year’ is assumed to refer to the 12 months ending 31st March 2017.


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1. Standing Orders suspended to take Supplementary Order Paper

The Chief Minister to move:

That Standing Orders be suspended to the extent necessary to allow the business on the Supplementary Order Paper to be taken. The President: We turn now to our Supplementary Order Paper No. 1. Item 1 on that is the

Suspension of Standing Orders. I call on the Chief Minister to move. The Chief Minister (Mr Quayle): Thank you, Mr President. 1420

I move that Standing Orders be suspended to the extent necessary to allow the business on the Supplementary Order Paper to be taken.

The President: Hon. Member, Mr Henderson. 1425

Mr Henderson: I beg to second, sir. The President: Hon. Members, I put the question that Standing Orders be suspended. Those

in favour, please say aye; against, no. The ayes have it. The ayes have it. Item 2, to lay the report before the Court – this has been done. 1430

3. Programme for Government 2016-2021 – Debate commenced


That Tynwald approves the Council of Ministers’ Programme for Government 2016-2021 – Our Island: A Special Place to Live and Work [GD No 2017/0002] [MEMO].

The President: Item 3, Programme for Government, and I call on the Chief Minister to move. The Chief Minister (Mr Quayle): Thank you, Mr President. This administration took office only 100 days ago. In that time the world has changed beyond

measure. On 20th January, Donald Trump will enter the White House as President; the United 1435

Kingdom has announced it will trigger Article 50 by the end of March, committing it to leaving the European Union; and terror attacks have struck at the very heart of Europe, attempting to undermine the freedoms we take for granted. The Chief Economist at the Bank of England has talked about economists having a Michael Fish moment, for their failure to predict either the impact of Brexit or the 2008 financial crash. 1440

So, Hon. Members, it seems that we are no longer able to plan on certainty or rely on the past to tell us about the future. And yet, when writing our Programme for Government we have been able to base our plan on strong foundations.

I am told by the Minister for Economic Development that we have around 550 potential new jobs from companies looking to set up in the Isle of Man. Not only that, but our Enterprise 1445




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Development Scheme has received over 100 enquiries from businesses on and off Island. Our Aircraft Registry has just been voted the best in the world, for good reason. And unemployment has dropped to the lowest level since the financial crash in 2008. Finally, the Treasury Minister is confident that, with prudence, ambition and courage, we can address the structural deficit in our finances in the medium to long term. So we start on a sound footing. But we must not be 1450

complacent. When taking up this role, I was determined that as a Government, we act decisively and that

we act with pace. With that in mind, Hon. Members, we have worked hard to bring our Programme for Government to this Court by January.

In developing this document, we have met together many times to consider, debate and 1455

challenge each other on those areas where we want to have a real impact. We have listened to the views of others, in Tynwald and also from our partners in the private and voluntary sectors. We have tried to be inclusive, and I hope we have succeeded.

Mr President, I have said before that there is a new energy in this Court: an optimism and determination that we really can make change happen; (A Member: Hear, hear.) that we can 1460

challenge the accepted wisdom of the past and take a new path to the future. I still believe this to be true.

More than that though, Hon. Members, I also see a new way of thinking. Members are prepared to listen to the views of others and, on occasion, change their own views when persuaded. I am hopeful, then, that this spirit of constructive challenge and debate will continue. 1465

It has certainly been a positive influence on the development of this document. One of the main questions we have asked ourselves is how to develop a programme which is

responsive enough to the rapidly changing external environment, yet which also gives us a clear and continued direction of travel. That is why, Hon. Members, the Programme for Government should not be seen as being set in tablets of stone. It is the first version of our programme and 1470

will be subject to change over time. We have paid heed to the threats and challenges we are facing, many of which are outside of

our control. One of the biggest challenges we will face in 2017 and beyond will be responding to the implications for the Island from the UK’s withdrawal from the European Union. Hon. Members will know that when the UK leaves the EU, Protocol 3 of the Treaty of Accession, which 1475

sets out the basis of our relationship with the European Union, will fall away. We cannot make any decision on our new relationship with the European Union until the nature of the UK’s relationship is clear. This could take two or more years. We will then need to decide if the Island wishes to be included within the UK’s new relationship with Europe.

Meanwhile – recognising and noting the intention of the UK government to trigger Article 50 1480

and to incorporate all EU law into UK law in the form of a ‘Great Repeal Bill’ – we have had significant discussion on these matters with UK politicians and their senior officials for several months.

Whilst Hon. Members may have been advised, I think it is worth re-stating that it is our intention to bring forward a similar ‘Repeal Bill’. This will serve the same purpose as the UK Bill 1485

in respect of Protocol 3 matters and ensure there are no gaps in our legislation. I would assure this Hon. Court that we will continue to ensure our voice is heard and our

interests recognised by those who have responsibility for guiding the UK towards its new place in the world. Our programme of engagement has been intense but productive and will continue to form a large part of our work over the coming months and years. 1490

However, we must also be conscious of our own place in the world. We have consistently led the way in responding to international demands for transparency and openness in the way we do business, but our past record does not guarantee us immunity from changes to the future. We have already put a great deal of time, effort and work into reviewing compliance with the latest international recommendations on anti-money laundering and countering the financing of 1495

terrorism. This work has included producing our own national risk assessment and engaging with the evaluation carried out last year by the Moneyval organisation. The Moneyval report is


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expected to be published in the very near future. We are confident that it will assist us in ensuring our adherence to the highest global standards – a process that will reinforce our reputation as a responsible and respected centre for international business. 1500

Mr President, I have spoken much about the external issues facing us. The Election allowed us, as an Island, to debate the big issues, to discuss and challenge what our priorities should be, and to consider what the future should look like. But it also enabled people to share with us the issues they face on a daily basis, the things that affect them and their families directly. They told us that in some cases it is still financially difficult for them. They said that often they do not feel 1505

like they have shared in our story of economic success and they do not feel like they are listened to. I want to be clear that this Programme is for them, too.

We have three main objectives: an inclusive and caring society; an Island of enterprise and opportunity; and a financially responsible Government. We want an inclusive and caring society because we believe everyone should be able to share in our economic success. But it is also 1510

important to ensure we enable those who are in need to improve the quality of their lives. The foundation of our success has been the growth in our economy. It has provided jobs for

our people, revenue for our public services and self-reliance for our Island. The world is changing and new economies are emerging. We must be flexible and responsive to those changes, ensuring our environment adapts to meet the needs of new areas of business and enterprise. 1515

And we must be financially responsible. While we have done well to rebalance public finances to date, we must now start to deal with the longer-term financial challenges, but that does not mean increasing the burden on the public. Since taking office we have acted to halt rises in the sewerage charge so that people have more money in their pockets; we have reversed the decision to abolish free TV licences for our residents who are over 75; and we will 1520

explore ways to increase the money available to fund pre-school education. Mr President, I am proud of our vision for the future and that we have brought together this

Programme in such a short space of time. But I am also proud of the work that happens across the public sector every day. While we have been working on this Programme over the past 100 days, our staff have been quietly going about their day jobs, professionally and with little 1525

fuss or fanfare. Our teachers delivered 10,000 lessons to pupils across the Island; our buses carried people on 800,000 journeys; our GPs’ surgeries gave 110,000 consultations; and our police officers carried out 240 visits to check on the welfare of vulnerable people. Ensuring a sustainable future for these and other public services is the reason our plan is so important.

The focus now must be on action and accountability. That is why we have committed all 1530

Departments to producing a service-delivery plan, showing how they will meet the aims and outcomes set out in this document. Not only that, but we will have an open and transparent set of performance measures which will be published quarterly, showing in black and white whether we are truly making a difference. This will be co-ordinated by the Cabinet Office, and each Minister will be accountable for making sure we are doing what we said we would. Each year we 1535

will report on our progress to Tynwald and set out our priorities for the coming year. This will give Members the opportunity to scrutinise our progress and hold us to account.

Mr President, this is not my Programme for Government; it is not the Council of Ministers’ Programme for Government; I hope that it is seen as our Programme for Government – that we all accept a responsibility to the people of the Isle of Man to drive it forward. As Members and 1540

Ministers in Departments, as Chairs of Boards and as Members of this Hon. Court, we all have a role in making this happen.

I believe this Programme will ensure we leave a legacy for the next generation – for our children – that we can all support. We want them to have the same chances and opportunities that we have enjoyed; we want them to be able to own their own homes and have successful, 1545

well-paid jobs; we want them to have access to good quality health and social care when they need it, regardless of their ability to pay; we want them to see their homes in the same way that we do – our Island, a special place to live and work.

Mr President, I beg to move.


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The President: I call on the Hon. Member for Douglas Central, Mr Thomas. 1550

The Minister of Policy and Reform (Mr Thomas): Thank you, Mr President. I beg leave to

second and reserve my remarks. The President: Hon. Member of the Council, Mr Henderson. 1555

Mr Henderson: Gura mie eu, Eaghtyrane. I must commend the Chief Minister for bringing this Programme for Government here and I

have to say I commend the way in which it has been constructed and brought here, because in all my time in Tynwald served I cannot remember at any point where Tynwald Members have 1560

been invited to workshops and have their personal input into a Programme of Government – or even a document called a Programme of Government, for that matter – whereby our views were taken on board and our views were inputted into the document, quite fully in some circumstances.

I am impressed that officers were listening to Hon. Members’ concerns and otherwise – 1565

observations – and that this document is the ultimate effect of those deliberations and workshops. I am very pleased that it has taken this shape and form and that Members have been listened to.

In the past we have suffered Government policy debates – we suffered departmental plans at one point where there were huge ring-binders of objectives and statements of intent and all 1570

sorts produced by the truckload. To be fair to previous administrations, that was an attempt to meet Members’ observations about strategic planning and so on, but ultimately those exercises were not very effective and it became a paper exercise just to say that we had done it.

Here we have what I believe to be a working document that can be fully subscribed to by most, if not all Hon. Members. In fact, at our workshops there were many Members who had 1575

the idea of signing the document as a Tynwald document even at one point, because Hon. Members were genuinely pleased that their views and concerns were being taken on board. For that, I must thank the Chief Minister and the staff involved from the Cabinet Office who have spent hours and hours working on this and pulling it together – big plus-point, no doubt about it. I hope it is a plus-point that we continue, and I am sure that we will. 1580

I fully commend the listening ear that the Chief Minister is endeavouring to push out to Hon. Members, and the Council of Ministers. It is certainly a completely different reflection to what we have been used to.

I would highlight also, Eaghtyrane, what the Chief Minister has pointed out with regard to the international issues that are facing us, and I commend the work that is being undertaken with 1585

regard to Brexit and the leaving of the EU, the least of which was our meeting with the UK House of Commons Justice Committee yesterday, which was at the Chief Minister’s behest. These kinds of initiatives are highly desirable for the Isle of Man to send a message out, and also highly desirable internally because it makes Members feel engaged with Government and listened to.

I certainly appreciated the workshop yesterday afternoon with the Justice Committee, and 1590

also the work that is ongoing behind the scenes that the Chief Minister has highlighted and the future work that this will cause, and workstreams, including the legislative process he has outlined – that is of concern to me. Also, obviously, we are trying to anticipate the unknown to an extent, so we just have to watch this space as we are going along.

We also have to be very wary – and I know we are – of the other international issues, 1595

especially with the financial standards that continually rise throughout the globe – Moneyval being the least of them, and maybe we will see another tranche of issues launched from the OECD, for instance – but I know we are watching the international front and are engaging more fully than we ever have been with the different organisations, which is excellent.

I would also hint at the economy, which the Chief Minister has alluded to. I very much 1600

welcome his drive forward to ensure that the general community of the Isle of Man can say that


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they are affected by our success, if I can put it that way. We have heard people saying ‘it is all very well pointing out how successful the Island is and how well it is doing, but we are not feeling it’, and I very much welcome that comment from the Chief Minister, because the squeezed middle, if I can put it like that, are really feeling it at the minute. Referred to as ‘middle 1605

England’ by our adjacent neighbours, here we would could call it ‘Middle Mann’. I do not want us to go back to previous administrations’ issues where we saw Government charges being brought in in what I would call a scattergun effect and other measures that seemed to be, to me, indiscriminately launched as a knee-jerk response to trying to sort out the Government’s financial deficit. I think, thankfully, we are moving away from that at a very great rate of knots. 1610

With regard to the economy, the Treasury is certainly working flat out to produce something that will be acceptable to the public of the Isle of Man in February. I am sure we will hear more about that as we go along, Eaghtyrane. There is an immense amount of work going on behind the scenes and the change and difference in direction that is ongoing is, to be honest, a breath of fresh air, and I am quite happy with how things are progressing on that front. 1615

However, having touched on some of the main points affecting the Island, I just want to touch on two personal issues of mine that run in parallel in the background. Certainly I am more concerned with the main issues, but there are parallel background issues and I want to highlight them. Those are the points of the natural heritage of the Isle of Man, our conservation and our wildlife. I will highlight it here because in the relevant section of the Government Programme, 1620

on pages 10 and 11, we have a little bit that says we will ‘take care of nature and wildlife so that our uplands, plantations … can help us deal with the challenges of a changing climate’. To me, that means we are going to manipulate our environment to help us manage climate change. That is not about conservation; that is not about protecting the natural heritage. That is something completely different. 1625

I also note in the Programme that we say we will ‘build on and promote our UNESCO Biosphere accreditation’. What I would have really liked to have seen here is that we, the Isle of Man Government, undertake to progress the biodiversity action plans that flow from our accreditation and so on. I would really like the Chief Minister to come back and say that Government is supportive of progressing the biodiversity action plans. Otherwise, the Biosphere 1630

accreditation and so on will in time become meaningless because we really need to be doing what we are saying, not just publishing it and getting to the first stage of policy agreement – which I am grateful for, but we need to now put the action plans in place.

There are already indicators where it is quite clear our wildlife is not doing as well as it should be. Species such as Peregrine Falcons, for instance – which we are world famous for – are 1635

declining in numbers. So there are warning signs there and we need to strengthen our resolve with regard to our natural heritage. I got a motion passed in Tynwald in 2005-06 where Tynwald unanimously supported the Island’s natural heritage, so that still stands in the background and I think it should energise our efforts towards our natural heritage even more.

The other issue is to do with education. I have raised this matter before, and, credit to the 1640

Hon. Member, Mrs Beecroft, she brought a motion last year with regard to introducing more Manx aspects to the general education curriculum. I highlighted this in my 2011 manifesto quite considerably and at length, and in fact I have highlighted it at Illiam Dhone day too in one of my speeches there, and it is this: I would really strongly ask the Education Minister to look at ways of including more Manx-based subject matter – not the language, but subject matter with 1645

regard to the Island – in the curriculum as far as possible. I know there have been difficulties in the past with this because we are tied up to an English or UK external education exam system and therefore we seemingly have to work towards a curriculum that can be marked in the UK. However, I think it is entirely feasible to work with the UK in producing more Manx-based education modules. I do not want to, in the future, hear my children coming home – or other 1650

people’s children in the future, I should say more accurately – saying they are learning about the UK tourism industry and Blackpool and what it was like in the Victorian days and so on, and Bournemouth and Eastbourne, when the hub of the tourist industry, if we are looking at the


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Victorian tourist model, was here in the Isle of Man. I think it is a shame that modules like that are not to be incorporated into what we are doing going forward. 1655

The same with politics: we should be having the sixth-form students engaged with Tynwald in a far more meaningful fashion. There is a living, working parliament right on the doorstep of Manx schools that the students can learn about and use as an example and quote in their coursework, using our Tynwald as the example for those modules. I know there is some good work going on in the background with regard to that, but I have put a marker down that I would 1660

like to see it further energised and far more of it in our curriculum. With that, Eaghtyrane, I commend the Government Programme overall and look forward

with interest to other Members’ comments. The President: Hon. Member for Ramsey, Dr Allinson. 1665

Dr Allinson: Thank you, Mr President. I would like to thank the Chief Minister for living up to the promises and commitments he

made when he took office. His Programme started with us walking into a briefing room and quite literally having a blank piece of paper to work on – a perfect example of how you establish 1670

an inclusive Government where all Members have a say. I have also attended further meetings, as Chair of Manx Utilities, to refine policies and am

excited that there is a clear commitment that this Government will deliver on a whole range of issues. We are going to ensure that we have a digital Island ready for new technologies like 5G. We will support the three goals of energy security, emissions reduction, and energy affordability. 1675

We will deal with problematic waste created by previous activities, such as mining, in an environmentally responsible way. We will continue to invest in sea defences and reduce flooding and coastal erosion in those high-risk areas – the MUA will lead the implementation of the National Flood Risk Strategy approved by Tynwald in 2016. We will also support people to make their homes and businesses more energy efficient. 1680

For those who criticise this document for not having definite aims, these are not just nebulous promises. This commitment is backed up by a series of actions. These include that the Manx Utilities will complete the regional sewerage infrastructure programme and also work with the Government to conduct a full independent review of the way it operates and is financed; that the MUA will limit increases for water, sewerage and electricity costs to protect the growth 1685

in economic activity and balance any increases with the cost of living; that the Manx Utilities will be part of the consultation on the minimum standard of 10 Mb universal broadband across the Island; and that we are an intrinsic part of implementing energy-efficiency schemes to the Island to both reduce emissions and the impact of global warming. We have already pioneered the use of low-energy lighting schemes for local authorities and our Home Energy Officer already gives 1690

free advice to customers, and this role is increasing in importance. This Programme also sets out an extensive list of pieces of legislation to achieve these aims. I

would like to thank the Council of Ministers and specifically the Minister for Policy and Reform for making sure that the Wayleaves Bill is on the agenda, a Bill which will allow us to fully utilise the network of fibre-optic cables which already exists on the Island to achieve significant 1695

improvements in broadband performance and coverage for consumers and businesses without having to go through years of costly negotiations with landowners who are already being reimbursed.

Hon. Members, I support this ambitious Programme and support the work of the Chief Minister and Council of Ministers to bring this to fruition. 1700

The President: Hon. Member for Douglas North, Mr Peake. Mr Peake: Thank you, Mr President.


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I will be supporting this motion – Our Island: A Special Place to Live and Work, Programme for 1705

Government for 2016-2021. There is nothing in here that I oppose. In fact, we should really try and make it smarter. That

is SMARTER, as in specific, measurable, attainable, relevant, time-centric, evaluate and revise. We have said that it is a living document and it is very important for the Island’s future.

I am very grateful for Minister Thomas for arranging yesterday’s question and answer 1710

session. It does show the commitment of the Council of Ministers to listen to Members, and the number of Members who attended demonstrates their wish to work together for the benefit of the Island and its future.

Mr President, this document is not like your car’s well-thought-out dashboard, ergonomic in its design with the right number of buttons and switches, where you can actually position and 1715

touch them easily; this document has turned into a bit more like the flight deck of Concorde. Our seven guiding principles have expanded into five main themes, 20 outcomes, 81 policy statements and a further 81 actions by outcome.

The really important step now is the key performance indicators. The timeline for the production of this brochure has to be commended – it has included a lot of work – but we are 1720

entering the most important stage and I wish every success, because we all want this success. It is possible to lose focus to include regular day-to-day tasks and procedures. The important part is now. It is the full national indicator set, or key performance indicators. They are due back to Tynwald in April.

Following the helpful question and answer session yesterday, it is my understanding – and I 1725

would be grateful if the Chief Minister could confirm this in his summing up – that the Departments will present the key performance indicators to the Cabinet Office and then the Cabinet will check there is no conflict with those to make sure that all the key performance indicators are pulling in the same direction. Then the presentation to Members to ensure that the alignment is to the political policy, and then finally collating that document and bringing it 1730

for approval to Tynwald. Mr President, it is important that the KPIs are aligned with the policy wishes of the Ministers

and Members. This is what the political Members agreed in all those workshops and presentations.

Thank you very much. 1735

The President: Hon. Member for Garff, Mrs Caine. Mrs Caine: Thank you, Mr President. I would like to congratulate the Chief Minister, the Policy and Reform Minister – in fact, all 1740

the Council of Ministers, for bringing this Programme for Government before us today. It is no mean achievement to try to incorporate the views of effectively 30 parties into one

cohesive plan and to do it in only three months, compared with the almost three years it took the previous administration to bring out their Agenda for Change. That is surely deserving of our admiration. In my opinion, the Programme published last week is an encouraging start to this 1745

new administration. I feel included, listened to and certainly thankful that some of my wish list items have been incorporated.

It is not perfect, of course. The devil, as they say, will be in the detail, but it is a promising start. I take heart from noting the clear commitment to funding improved standards and availability of early years’ education, plus the pledge to introduce a regulatory framework for 1750

preschool services. I also welcome the emphasis on culture, the commitment to open the Island’s first cultural

centre and to develop a national development strategy for culture and the arts by this April, plus a whole year of culture, celebrating our Island as a special place to live and work in 2018. That is pretty confident stuff, culturally speaking. It seems the Island has matured: we know what it is to 1755

be Manx and we are happy to share it with the world. That is all music to my ears.


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I hope to see more detail soon in respect of local authority and rating reform. Also perhaps a comprehensive review of taxation so the wealthy contribute more and we can look forward to purging the stealth taxes of the previous administration and bringing fairness and transparency to all taxation, including rates. 1760

But CoMin also need to get with the programme in terms of balancing the views of business with the views of unions and the third sector. Why weren’t they consulted? I hope it was not a deliberate oversight. The document states it will ‘consider how better to engage and collect the views of the third sector, trade unions and private sector to develop Government policy’. Contrast this with the conclusion that CoMin ‘listened to the views of the business community 1765

and hope they recognise their input to this document’. It would be more complete, more rounded, if they had engaged – and engage in future – with the third sector and trade unions in the same way they have to date with the business community. That would be a great line to draw in the sand: listen to all groups on all sides of the political argument. Why wouldn’t they want to do that, given their record of including everybody in this Court? I know Government 1770

cannot hope to please all the people all the time, but listening to everyone should inform a balanced policy to be delivered in this Programme for Government, accepting that it will be a living, fluid document, changing in response to the uncertain times we know lie ahead.

I am happy to support the broad brushstrokes we have been given and I look forward to drilling down into the nitty-gritty of the key performance indicators that will be forthcoming and 1775

that will enable us to assess how ambitious and measurable this administration is truly willing to be.

I will end by urging CoMin to go away, be a little bit braver and a little bit bolder. Have the courage of your convictions. We are right behind you. We want aspirational Government that can bring us along with them, that will win hearts and minds in the community. We know 1780

outside influences will impact on what can be achieved, and they will possibly require changes of direction, but we need to be ready for those challenges, responsive and flexible.

So I am happy to give this Programme a vote of confidence. In making my leap of faith, I trust CoMin to take it to the next level and I will support this Government to do what is right for our Island, what is fair for our community. 1785

Thank you, Mr President. The President: Hon. Member for Douglas East, Mr Robertshaw. Mr Robertshaw: Thank you, Mr President. 1790

I too will compliment the Council of Ministers and the Chief Minister for achieving so much in such a short time. I do not think perhaps it is necessarily quite understood how difficult it is to pull such a programme together when in fact you have such a wide range of opinion coming to the new House compared to elsewhere, where you have political parties which have spent years thinking through what they want to say and present to the public. So well done the Council of 1795

Ministers on that, and of course I will be supporting this document. But there is a ‘but’ – I would not want to disappoint in that regard! (Laughter) When I read

this document, apart from getting past this ‘we will’ thing … There is a little song somewhere, isn’t there, that people sing, ‘We will …’? I do not like that at all. A lot of it was unnecessary. However, when you got to action by outcome it firmed up a lot and I became more comfortable. 1800

I think it is in London, isn’t it, where, because there are so many foreigners there who perhaps have come from a country where the cars drive on the other side of the road, when you are looking down it says ‘Look left’ or ‘Look right’. That was the image that came into my head when I read this. It has worked very, very hard to bring the Members together to identify the issues that are important to us all. That was looking left, but did we look right? If we look the 1805

wrong way we could quite easily step out and get run over, and, to my mind, that being run over is this issue of have we fully understood the budgetary challenges that are coming down the road?


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I am not persuaded by the Chief Minister’s comments that, hey-ho, we have got significant growth coming forward in our economy and that should placate our concerns. I have significant 1810

concerns about the cost escalators that are coming down the road at us, and I think the Minister for Health and Social Care was very honest in her presentation the other day when she talked about the difficulties. We are now looking at the medium-term financial forecast, which to my mind sits within this. I will provisionally support this, but expect us to look right as well and engage in … [Inaudible] deliverability and budgets. 1815

If you look back at the last medium-term financial forecast – it was called a ‘strategy’, but it was not – it was really a construct which showed that we actually could find a way within five years of paying for this upcoming public sector pension cost to the revenue account of somewhere between, then, last year, £50 million to £60 million in 2021, I think it is. In order to do that, all the costs were flat-lined on health, social care – salaries and wages went up 1%. That 1820

was how we found a way to pay for this additional cost of £50 million to £60 million. Twenty-four hours after we all got re-elected and came back, the forecast which had shown salaries and wages going up by 1% was declared to be 2%. The forecast increase in the last medium-term financial forecast showed pretty well a zero increase in cost in Health and Social Care. A few weeks later we got an increase of £11 million. These are real things that are happening and real 1825

pressures, and with the demographic changes that are taking place we are going to see a continued escalation in costs.

I do not think we have grasped all that and I think we have not seen it yet. I am looking forward to the Budget this year, although I think it was asking a lot of Treasury to put everything together from the election to next month, so therefore I am perhaps more hopeful of the 1830

Budget after next. But I will believe this when we are both looking left and right and we have merged the two and we have confidence in it. I think we have been too quick to push aside the matters of smaller Government and the scope, which was brought up yesterday. One Member made the comment, ‘Well, why aren’t we focusing on this?’ and the answer was the most confused answer I have ever heard, actually. Four different Members, some of them Ministers, 1835

all gave different answers, and that made me nervous. So I think this is very much a work in progress. I will support it, but I want to see us be a lot

more hardnosed and honest about the difficulties that we are going to face in the coming years and factor all of them in. Otherwise, with the greatest of respect – and I do not want to be too flippant here – this is in danger of being politics on happy pills, because there are some really 1840

significant issues ahead of us. Let’s factor all those in honestly, as the Minister for Health and Social Care did the other day, build all that and then fix this programme into it. At that stage the Chief Minister will have my absolute and 100% support.

In closing, Mr President, he mentioned some issues with regard to confidence in the growth in the economy. I just want to put a cautionary note here. In my experience in the last two or 1845

three years I have been really disappointed in the way that decision-making which should have been at the strategic level was actually lost in the Departments and became myopic and concerned with a departmental imperative. I will not give three or four examples now – I could, but I do not want to hog the floor too long. My interpretation of what is going on is this: that we have Divisions and Departments where the officers are hopefully, and I am sure that is the case, 1850

competent to deliver operational services on a day-to-day basis – that is what they are paid to do, that is what they are asked to do and that is what they do, and we thank them for it – but occasionally we ask them to stand up and reach up to a much higher strategic level and deliver results there. They end up being engaged with people external to Government, often external to the Isle of Man, who are operating on that strategic high level the whole time and are very 1855

competent at it. I think we are asking just too much of our departmental and divisional officers to step up to the plate to that degree and then criticise them when they do not get it right. That is not the right way of going about things. I think we should be asking our Divisions to deliver on the operational services downwards on a day-to-day basis and we should be thinking again about how to draw together intelligent strategic thinking and absorb the thoughts of the 1860


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Departments and the Divisions within that process. I think we have got a long way to go, because if we do not do that I think we are going to continue to miss opportunities and make mistakes in that crucial area of economic growth.

I think, having discussed politics on happy pills, Mr President, it is time for me to sit down. 1865

The President: Hon. Member for Douglas North, Mr Ashford. Mr Ashford: Thank you, Mr President. I do not think we have underestimated the amount of work that has had to go in to actually

produce this document in such a short period of time. Lots of administrations in the past have 1870

struggled to do what has been done in the last few months in the first 18 months of office, so I want to commend the Chief Minister and all those involved for actually getting the document out so quickly. But not just that, also involving every single Member of this Hon. Court. That, I think, has been absolutely crucial to ensuring that we have got the document that we have got today. I do not think it would have happened otherwise and I hope that is something that will 1875

continue as this document develops. Several speakers have already alluded to and spoken about key performance indicators, KPIs,

Mr President, and for me the next stage, the KPIs, are absolutely critical. They have not just got to be measurable; to me, Mr President, they also need to be meaningful as well and they need to be meaningful to people outside of this Hon. Court so that people can clearly measure, not 1880

just success but also failure. One thing we need to be clear on, Mr President, is we should not be scared of admitting

failure where it happens. (A Member: Hear, hear.) We should be clear, upfront and honest, so there should be a proper RAG status – Red, Amber, Green – to go with each of those KPIs. I think it is also crucial that when the KPIs are developed that it is clear where responsibility lies – not 1885

just political responsibility but also which particular officer is responsible for each individual KPI, and I think that should be aligned to each of those targets.

I think one of the key messages from the Chief Minister’s statement … certainly the key word for me, Mr President, is ‘co-ordination’. He used the word co-ordination and I think that is absolutely critical. Without co-ordination you could very easily end up at the next stage with 1890

KPIs conflicting between Departments, because quite rightly now the Departments are going to go back and look at how they can implement this Programme for Government. At that stage, when it all comes back, it needs to be properly co-ordinated to make sure that we get one central direction of travel for the Government. Some Departments might not necessarily get what they want and others may get everything they want, but it is very important that we have 1895

one Government on this and we are all going in the same direction. I think also a crucial thing that the Chief Minister said was about international uncertainty.

One of the key things about this being a living document – and I think it always has to remain a living document – is we need to be able to adapt very quickly. The days of when we could sit here and think that the outside world did not affect the Island are gone, Hon. Members. 1900

Everything that happens affects the Island. Yesterday we had the House of Commons Justice Committee here, who many Hon. Members

got a chance to speak to, and, of course, today now the Chancellor and the Prime Minister have actually confirmed that the UK effectively will be exiting the single market and going for a hard Brexit. That will have, again, an impact on the Island and that needs to be taken into account 1905

when we look to how we are going to move forward with the Government Programme. The Chief Minister mentioned about the economic and political uncertainties and the

economic uncertainties are probably the ones that are going to play the biggest. We do have a lot more diverse an economy than some of the other Crown Dependencies, so I think we are in a better position than certain other ones are to be able to adapt, but it is crucial that we do 1910

remain sleight of foot.


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The Treasury and the Department of Economic Development work very closely with business and also the general community to actually work out what is required and implement changes quickly. I do not think over the next five years we are going to have much time to sit around and navel-gaze and debate things. We need to get on and do things and that is what I am hoping this 1915

programme will allow us to do: move forward and actually achieve things. I think the very fact that there is going to be an annual report on the Programme for

Government is also something that should be praised and praised from the rooftops. This is not going to be another one of those Government documents, which I think all Hon. Members have seen over the years, where there is a fanfare when it comes out and then it is put away into a 1920

dusty drawer somewhere and dusted off maybe five, six years later. This is a proper, living document and I think that it is a great step forward.

But, as I say, I think it is a first step and the next phase that comes forward, the KPIs, are critical and I am sure the Chief Minister will be willing to give a guarantee, but I think when the KPIs are being developed and when they are finalised it is important that, once again, as he has 1925

done before, all Hon. Members are involved in the finalisation of that before it comes forward to Tynwald.

In relation to the Chief Minister’s speech, again, Mr President, I think one of the crucial bits for me was the recognition in there that there are people out there struggling; that there are people who have got serious problems in making ends meet. I think it was very important the 1930

Chief Minister had that in his speech and I would like to praise him for putting that in because I think that is something that we must never lose focus of in this administration. Being harsh and blunt, I think previous administrations sometimes have lost sight of that and it has not been their primary focus. We need to look to help and benefit everyone in our community, not just certain sectors of our community. We need to, once again, be looking to the Island as a whole 1935

and that is why I think that the great thing is the title of it, ‘Our Island: A Special Place to Live and Work’.

I think, also, the crucial thing that is being identified in this programme is that sometimes it is very easy, Mr President, just to run off and look for new and innovative things to get the shiny, brand new thing and focus on that. I think this programme actually recognises that we already 1940

have a lot on-Island and there are better ways we can use what we have already got. So I think it is a proper recognition and a proper balance there.

To finish off, Mr President, I would just like to say that the Chief Minister – I heard in his speech there – referred to economists having ‘a Michael Fish moment’. Well, I think if we actually get this right, Mr President, then we can actually set a direction that will see us to 1945

clearer skies ahead rather than perhaps the stormy weathers that could batter us otherwise. I think it is a good first step. I think it is great that all Hon. Members of this Court were

involved in the process and I think that now as the next stages are developed, we also need to ensure that continues and all Hon. Members, whether they agree with certain elements or not, have at least had the chance to input at every stage. 1950

I commend the Programme and obviously, as most Members would expect, Mr President, I will most certainly be supporting it.

The President: The Hon. Member for Middle, Mr Shimmins. 1955

Mr Shimmins: Thank you, Mr President. I also like the title. It stands up to scrutiny, because we do live and work in a special place.

The title is also inclusive and positive. It was great to hear in the Chief Minister’s speech that the Department of Economic

Development is close to landing over 500 new jobs for the Island – isn’t that fantastic? 1960

I would just bring Hon. Members’ attention to page 18 of the Report, which talks about the Area Plans – and I have raised this with the Minister for Policy and Reform, so this is not a surprise to him – but the comment that we are going to:


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Bring into operation the Area Plan for the East by the end of 2019 and set out a timetable for the Area Plans for the North and West.

Well, I feel that we need to be more nimble and effective in our delivery if we are going to land these very important private sector jobs for the Island. Urgent action is needed, especially in our 1965

capital, Douglas, with many vacant sites. However, I do welcome that this is a living document and it will be developed. Reviewing

annually is commendable and I think this approach will really help us adapt to the changing world around us.

There are two areas on which I would welcome more clarity. Firstly, as a number of people 1970

have raised already, how will the key performance indicators be finalised? Targets do drive behaviours so it is very important that we get this right.

Secondly, how will we manage actions which span across multiple Departments? How will we eliminate that kind of silo mentality which perhaps has been evident in the past? For example, developing a strategy for active transport covers Infrastructure, DEFA, Health, Education, 1975

Economic Development and possibly Home Affairs. So how do we harness the energy and expertise across these Departments to develop and implement these plans?

There are many things to admire in this programme: from publishing and reducing hospital waiting lists to managing our finances for the benefit of all, to encouraging graduates to return to the Island. For me, though, what comes through is a commitment to modernisation and 1980

improvement – that comes through really strongly. To all who have burnt the midnight oil producing this document, well done. We need to keep

this drive and momentum going. The President: The Hon. Member for Rushen, Mr Speaker. 1985

The Speaker: Thank you, Mr President. Hon. Members will be pleased to know that, as I have heard other people’s contributions, my

speech has been getting shorter and shorter, which is no bad thing and a lot of good comments have been said. (Laughter) 1990

I do perhaps just want to put this document into its strategic context, and the first of those is the constitutional context of Lisvane. Two points particularly spring to mind in putting this document into that context. The first was that Lord Lisvane felt that this document could be put together in two weeks. Well, I think having been through the process, both for Council of Ministers and as parliamentarians, I think we all might have been easily disabused of that 1995

recommendation. The other one, though, is perhaps not just more serious but more fundamental, and while

one of the strengths of this document is that everyone’s fingerprints are on it in some way or another, there is then the threat of self-review. How is it you can be critical of a document that you helped put together? I do not want to diminish the process in any way because it is a real 2000

strength of it, but we do still need to find the way that we can effectively hold the programme to account and effectively scrutinise something that we have all actually been a part of creating. That is food for thought when it comes to looking at the future of our scrutiny systems. Lord Lisvane on the one hand and the finances on the other, and I think Mr Shimmins covered this one well – I was just crossing bits out to accommodate this. 2005

We now need to see how the KPIs and the budget actually tie in with this. There is a real need for budgetary reform. It is not actually in the document explicitly. Although I have heard both the Treasury Minister talk about it and I have heard the Chief Minister talk about it, there is no specific commitment in the document for budget reform. I will not go into great depth today about the sort of things that I think are needed there; I have talked at length about it in the past 2010

and I am sure I will have the opportunity to do so in the future.


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The only other brief things that have not been mentioned so far and that I did want to mention: whilst I think Mr Robertshaw talks about ‘strategic objectives being lost in Departments’, I have also seen in the past where Ministers have become the head of operations for their Departments and have lost sight of the strategic picture, so it is both ways and I think 2015

we need to guard against that as well. The other thing that leads to – and it is not a terribly popular point outside of this Chamber –

is about making sure that Ministers, Members, parliamentarians, actually have the training and the skills to do the job that we are being asked to do. Whether that is as the Chief Minister, a Government Minister, even a backbencher, as Chairman of a Policy Review Committee; that you 2020

are able to draw on best practice from elsewhere; that you identify what your personal strengths and weaknesses are and are given the opportunity to train and develop in the same way that any other public sector employee would be given that opportunity. The problem is that costs money and that is something that I think is wholly justified in this place. It is something where the case has not been made in the past but I hope it will be, because that way we all get 2025

the best out of each other and the job. I have to say I support the Programme. I will watch its development with interest, especially

around the developments of the KPIs and the Budget and to follow the money to see how that is actually going to support this Programme. If we are successful in delivering this in our own different ways, I hope that the mood of optimism that has been much referred to in this 2030

Chamber over the last three months will spill out into the world outside and that the people of the Isle of Man will enjoy that feel-good factor that is actually quite vibrant and alive in here. Hopefully we can all do that without the need for Mr Robertshaw’s happy pills! (Laughter)

Thank you. 2035

The President: The Hon. Member, Mr Thomas. The Minister for Policy and Reform (Mr Thomas): Thank you very much, Mr President. I thought it would be very appropriate to speak with so little time before lunch. (Laughter) 2040

A Member: Not little enough! The Minister: Just a very small point: some people would regard it as pedantic, but some

people have suggested there is a very small potential typo in the document which is on page 15. There is a statement that we will: 2045

Maintain our robust, zero tolerance stance in relation to anti money laundering and countering the financing of terrorism.

What that means, clearly, is that this Isle of Man, our nation, is proud of its tough stance on money laundering and, if there is any clarity needed further in the language, that small adjustment will be made. 2050

The second point I wanted to make was to pick up on a couple of the specifics mentioned by some of the previous speakers, to give a flavour of how I believe the Chief Minister, the Minister of Policy and Reform, the Council of Ministers, see the interaction between what was there in the past and what is there now, and has been there since the Programme for Government was adopted by the Council of Ministers in November 2016 as the programme of Government for 2055

this administration. I am delighted that it was approved back in November 2016 in its framework form.

The first point is that Hon. Member of the Council, Mr Henderson, has talked about the Biodiversity Strategy and the Climate Change Strategy and it is absolutely clear that a five-year strategy like that, which was approved by Tynwald, is ongoing; however, they are now 2060

integrated into a new Programme for Government. Obviously the Budget will affect how that


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five-year strategy – which in actual fact goes on to 2050, from memory, ultimately – will actually be implemented. It is still to be determined in detail and it will be determined every year for a great number of years. Good work that was going on previously is there in place, but it is all now inside this new Programme for Government, which is not only a continuation, it has also got 2065

some new directions. Building on a point that the Hon. Member for Middle, Mr Shimmins, made about the

planning process: in February 2017, if it goes to plan – and I can see no reason why it will not – the pre-publicity stage of the Eastern Area Plan will be launched. With a smooth, fair passage, by 2019 we will be in a much stronger place in terms of the Area Plan. 2070

As the Hon. Member for Ayre and Michael alluded to earlier on, there is a high-level review of planning process which is again about to start. That will ensure that all of the review recommendations of the Select Committee that reported in May/July last year and also Government’s own planning review will be taken into account. One of those is that this administration’s priorities can be reflected in planning decisions, and I can absolutely assure 2075

every Member of this Court that planning is recognised as being the place where so many interests are balanced but also that the whole process needs attention.

The other issue raised in that context by the Hon. Member for Middle was the context of somehow changing the situation in Douglas – I know what he has in mind from discussions he has had. Conceivably we could look to other places in terms of development corporations, and I 2080

am sure the eagle-eyed Member for Middle has noticed that inside the legislative programme we have a Public Corporations Bill, which deals in part with the Post Office issue and in part it deals with the issues that the House of Keys raised when giving me personal permission to bring a Private Member’s Bill in the context of the process of dealing with Statutory Boards that became corporatised and the consequence of creating rich Statutory Boards out there. That has 2085

all been brought together in terms of public corporations, so there is no reason why it could not investigate the possibility of the development corporations (Mr Shimmins: Good!) that I know that the Hon. Member for Middle has in mind.

Across this Court what I have heard is that the performance indicators are going to be crucial to this, both in terms of how they are built up and how they are monitored thereafter; how they 2090

are managed. I think the Chief Minister and all the people involved would accept that is the crucial stage. The Chief Minister described this as a ‘marathon’ at one point, and I said that where we were now was that we had got through the first 5,000 metres of that marathon and the next 5,000 metres is going to be even tougher, because that is about how we work out those performance indicators and, more importantly, the governance around that and the 2095

management around that. In fact, I see it differently from the way that some people have described. I see it more like

the process that we have already gone through. In other words, we do not want a process as simple as saying ‘Departments produce them and we are all sceptical about whether they are ambitious enough’. We actually want to work out a new system using the Council of Ministers’ 2100

sub-committees, using the Tynwald Policy Review Committees, using existing management and operational structures, to actually come up with the right process or processes.

What I would say is that we need to think about the levels of these performance indicators as well. So, for instance, in summary, we have five what might come to be called ‘purpose targets’ for this Government: inclusivity, being caring, being a place of enterprise, being a place of 2105

opportunity and having a Government that is financially responsible. The next stage we are going to get to, I think, is actually making sure that we all agree and the public understands what an inclusive, caring, Island of enterprise and opportunity in which a financially responsible Government operates would really look like, and this is what we are after achieving and this is how we know when we have achieved it. 2110

KPIs immediately, probably, went down to activity targets and the specific outcomes and the specific action points, but I do not want to only think in those terms. We are a small Island; we need an appropriate Programme for Government for the Manx nature, for the Manx size, for the


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way that the Manx people think about their Government and want their Government to be like. That is going to be a different type of Programme for Government. I am sure the most important 2115

thing in my own mind is that the indicators will have to be based on those five characteristics described in the strategic objectives, very importantly, not only at the lower level mechanical indicators.

Engagement and accountability have been issues that have come up and I just wanted to knock on the head once and for all that in actual fact there has really been differential access to 2120

the politicians involved in preparing this Programme for Government. I have not actually been to the Chamber of Commerce to discuss this Programme for Government. They have invited me, I have accepted and I am going. In actual fact that is equally true across the piste. I have received lots of information which I have circulated to be taken into account; I am sure we all have. We all have a mandate based on our manifesto that we have presented which we have taken into 2125

account, but I like to think that we have actually had an ear that has been open for the unions, for the third sector, for the business community, for the heritage interest groups, for the transport groups and for every other interest group that wanted a piece of us during this process of putting together this document.

What I would say, very clearly, is that we have already announced crucial parts of the 2130

accountability framework. Firstly, I have repeatedly said, as everybody else has said, that this quarterly performance reporting is going to be at the heart of it, because documents do not burn; if we say we are going to do something, it is on record that we are going to do something and, if we do not achieve it, we are going to have to explain it. If an action that we say we will do something in terms of an outcome is not working, we will tweak it, and if it is definitely not 2135

working, we will have to change what we are trying to do. If we are not addressing the right issues, we will have to come up with new approaches to tackling those issues. We have got the timetable for that now, through the quarterly performance reporting.

Mr Speaker identified a crucial point in that by bringing to our attention the Lord Lisvane Review. Lord Lisvane talked about a Programme for Government and what it might mean for 2140

Tynwald. What he said was he would imagine that the Policy Review Committees and the Public Accounts Committee would be thinking to themselves how they should structure their work in terms of the Programme for Government – and that is not for the Chief Minister; that is not for me, but that is for all of us with our Tynwald hats on as being Members of Tynwald that have Policy Review Committees around us. 2145

I have also announced, as have other Ministers, that we are in the process of putting together the National Economic Development Forum and we are being more ambitious than they have historically and they have perhaps in other countries, because people normally talk about a tripartite forum and we are talking about a quadripartite forum, because not only are there interests in the modern world from business, Government and the unions or workers, we 2150

would like to involve the third sector in there. (A Member: Hear, hear.) Another part of the accountability – and nobody has remarked on it as yet, so I will do – Mr

Moulton has kindly brought his television cameras in today and the public is now more involved: they can read what we are up to, they can listen to what we are up to and now they can see more about what we are up to. That process is actually a continuous one, and the public and the 2155

stakeholders and other interest groups and people who care about the Isle of Man – pretty much everybody in the Island – has now got ways of finding out more about what public policy is like and especially the process by which it is made.

This Government has got to work out its communication framework. At the beginning of the Allan Bell administration the ‘Roamin’ CoMin’ concept was launched where questions were 2160

taken and answers were provided. Mr Robertshaw came up with what I always used to call TV remote control type things in the ‘Big Debate’, which I, along with a number of others, took part in improving with our Isle of Man 2020 debate process. We have now got to define what sort of communication we are going to have, and that is something that I would very much welcome Members’ participation in in helping us formulate, along with everybody else out there in Manx 2165


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society, because the Government is a function of the people for the people and we need to work out what it is that is appropriate for communication now.

Mr Robertshaw especially, but also Mr Peake today, has actually asked us to set out where this Programme for Government fits in his imagined or at least the real spectrum of possibilities for a Programme for Government. Mr Robertshaw entitled his manifesto, ‘A Little Book of 2170

Reform’, or something like that – ‘A Little Book of Government Reform’. I believe he is very much of the view that you just focus on what you are going to change.

At the other end, in places like Scotland, we have very detailed programmes of government, which, when I have visited and looked around, I thought to myself ‘Perhaps this is some way towards a sort of communist …’ No, that is wrong. (Laughter) ‘This is large government – 2175

(Laughter) – This is hundreds of people involved in preparing a programme and the like.’ I am sure we are going to end up gloriously in the middle with a Programme for Government that is not focused on business as usual; it is focused on prioritising things and developing the timetable for things for the coming year, appropriately, for a small but proud nation, a smallish Island with a smallish Programme for Government. It cannot only be a change agenda. It has to 2180

be an action agenda, and I think that is what we have got. We have got the right balance for all of that.

Finally, Mr Robertshaw used to have, in his era, three or four ‘S’s that he used to focus on. He was a bit interested in simplifying Government, making it smaller, making it smarter – and lots of other things like that. I think we have really thought that through collectively in the last few 2185

months, and what we are actually looking for is a smarter Government. If a smarter Government is a smaller Government, it will be a smaller Government. If a smarter Government is a simplified Government, it will be a simplified Government. (A Member: Hear, hear.)

We have already set up a single legal entity review process that will report back to this Hon. Court in July 2017. Members will shortly be receiving something from Council of Ministers to 2190

propose how that will work and I am sure that will be further helpful in exploring the mechanisms of the Council of Ministers’ subcommittees and the relationship with other people; how Departments, Officers and Boards work with the centre, and all those issues I am sure can be brought out in that process.

Finally, I close with two points. The first one is that I am absolutely sure in my own mind that 2195

this document is sufficiently flexible to be responsive to any issues that arise in the next five years, but you cannot imagine things that you cannot imagine, so things might throw us off course, but this document and this process that we are describing in it is sufficiently flexible to deal with that.

The second point is that the really important issues: public service, the financing of public 2200

service, what Government is all about, dealing with the economy, social consensus, they are all tackled in this document. Health, the relationship with social care, education, economic development, they are all tackled in this document. Work with us to actually make sure that things are properly delivered.

‘Middle Mann’ is an absolutely lovely phrase, and I am sure and I hope it will stick because 2205

‘middle income’ and all of those ‘just about managing’, they are old hat. We have now got the Manx phrase that expresses struggling by, scratching along, and all those other types of things that have been offered in the past. We now have that this Government is one about looking after ‘Middle Mann’. I suggest, whatever that means, it will come to be surprising.

The final point is, outside, questions will be raised: with this much consensus how can we 2210

have had real Government? I just wanted to point out physically one aspect to this Hon. Court: this is not the Government bench and that is the opposition bench or vice versa. We sit in the constituencies that we represent. We are set up in that way because the Manx political tradition and political history has been about building around that consensus rather than having Government that side shouting at this side of opposition and vice versa. That is what the people 2215

seem to have wanted and they have certainly set up their Court on that basis. It does not mean there is not intensive scrutiny; it does not mean there is not intensive engagement; it does not


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mean alternatives cannot come to exist. Three or four of the people, if not all of the people in the Council of Ministers now, were intensely critical of the last administration and we managed to bring those policies and those directions into force through our activities and our engagement 2220

and our motions and our work in the Committees through the last few years. That is the thought I want to leave you with: the Isle of Man Parliament, Tynwald, the House of Keys, Legislative Council are different from everywhere else; they are appropriate – as we will consider in April – still in the modern age, but what is certain is that you can have constructive engagement, scrutiny, critical appraisal and new ideas coming through without a mischievous 2225

Government/opposition arrangement. Thank you very much, Mr President, Hon. Court. The President: Thank you, Hon. Member. At that point we shall adjourn the sitting. 2230

Hon. Members, I have been asked to remind you of the lunchtime presentation in the Barrool Suite. This is a very full programme and it will commence at 1.15 p.m. and lunch will be provided concurrent with the presentation.

The sitting is now adjourned until 2.30 p.m. when I shall be calling, as the next speaker, the Hon. Member for Arbory, Malew and Castletown, Mr Moorhouse. 2235

The Court adjourned at 1.00 p.m.

and resumed its sitting at 2.30 p.m.

Procedural

The President: Please be seated, Hon. Members. Hon. Members, I just wish to advise that the Supplementary Order Paper No. 2 will not in fact

be moved this afternoon and will be held over to next month’s sitting. The mover, Mr Thomas, I understand, has circulated an explanation, so this is just to give you notice of that. 2240

Programme for Government 2016-2021 – Debate continued –

Motion carried

The President: Hon. Members, we were in the midst of our debate on the Programme for Government and I call on the Hon. Member for Arbory, Malew and Castletown, Mr Moorhouse.

Mr Moorhouse: Thank you, Mr President. I support the Programme for Government and have enjoyed being a part of the initial 2245

process. I look forward to the development of the strands that have been incorporated into this document. When doing this, four things must continue to be remembered in this challenging and rapidly changing economic environment.

Firstly, the reserves need protecting and, ideally, increasing. Secondly, the squeezed middle already have been challenged, and in the Chief Minister’s speech it was reassuring to hear his 2250

commitment to these people. Thirdly, if officers, experts and the Pink Book suggest it can be done for £10 million it must be done better and for less money. Finally, we must not forget whose money we are spending as we endeavour to make our Island an even more special place to live and work.

Thank you. 2255


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Two Members: Hear, hear. The President: Hon. Member for Douglas East, Miss Bettison. Miss Bettison: Thank you, Mr President. 2260

I have to say I agree with most of the Hon. Members here and I was delighted to see consensus in what were a lot of the key priorities that we came up with. I am glad to see that the Chief Minister and his Council of Ministers have included those in this Programme for Government. I think, however, it is absolutely key we do talk about the performance indicators which have been mentioned by many here today. It is very easy for us to come up with some of 2265

the obvious ones, I would imagine: we want to see crime rates reduced, we would like to see waiting list times reduced, and we would like to see an increased access to education.

However, what I think is absolutely key is that the real performance indicators are how people feel about these, and you can see a reduction in waiting times, but for the period of time that person is waiting there is still an extreme amount of frustration and potentially pain. That is 2270

why it is absolutely vital that the living document is also backed up by living performance indicators. They have to transition, they have to move, they have to grow and this has to be a continuous process. That, for me, is absolutely key.

I think another point I would make is regarding the flexibility of the document and, as we have talked, with a living document we do have flexibility. However, when we are looking at 2275

some of those indicators that we cannot achieve, whether that be because we realise it is less relevant for our Island, or whether it is something that just is not going to be practical, I think absolutely vital is that anything that becomes not included in a future copy of this document is separately listed, with a very clear rationale as to why that is in order to maintain the transparency that so many of us have talked about, and so many of us campaigned on as a key 2280

point within our elections. So, with that in mind, I am delighted this has come here. I look forward to being part of the

inclusive team that come up with those indicators for all the different Departments, and working with my constituents, businesses and the third sector – and I hope we all do the same – to listen to how this is affecting people on a real day-to-day basis, and how they feel. I think truly the 2285

judgement will be ‘Our Island: a Special Place to Live and Work’ could be a question for a lot of people and I think we need to be looking at that as a measure. When people feel that our Island absolutely is a special place to live and work and their fundamental securities are protected in being able to access food, safe shelter and all the other basic human needs, then we will know we have succeeded. 2290

Thank you. The President: Hon. Member for Ramsey, Mr Hooper. Mr Hooper: Thank you, Mr President. 2295

I would like to add my own, I suppose by now it is obligatory, congratulations to the Council of Ministers, but especially to the team in the Cabinet Office for all their work in putting this document together, especially in such a short time. This is an achievement for the Isle of Man, to have a Government Manifesto set out right at the start of the administration, and with a commitment for an annual review and debate to keep on steering the direction and holding 2300

Government to account. I am anticipating October Tynwald will become a key date in the political calendar.

The key aspect of this Programme, which has been alluded to by a number of Hon. Members, has yet to be published – and this is the performance indicators, by which we will measure success or failure of this Programme. I look forward to receiving these so that we can see exactly 2305

what measures this administration is looking to set itself by.


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These indicators need to be robust and challenging and I urge Ministers to make sure that they push their Departments towards realistic, yet ambitious and meaningful, goals. One concern I do have with these indicators is that they are to be put together by the Departments in concert with the Cabinet Office and overseen by the Council of Ministers and its sub-2310

committees. Just how robust is this process? Is it likely that the Departments and their Ministers will be setting challenging targets, or is there a real risk that these indicators and measures will be lax, easy to achieve and so really are not providing the challenge and accountability that is needed?

Here, I believe, we need some independent oversight, here is the ideal opportunity for an 2315

independent body to provide some real added value in assisting with monitoring independently benchmarked targets and performance measures, that will drive Government forward and not simply be boxes to be checked off. That this is a living document will be key to its success and, as such, I anticipate regular updates, additions and changes to this piece of work. We are an adaptable Island and Government should take advantage of this to best effect. 2320

Although here I am not entirely sure which sections are to be updated and changed and which sections are more fixed. The front page identifies this document as a Programme for Government for 2016-2021, so it is a five year document. But a lot of the policy statements and actions appear to be much more short-term. I mean, if it is a five-year plan to set out a more active role for the Communications Commission then that is a pretty weak goal, but if this is a 2325

first step then it makes much more sense. All of the policy statements in this document need to have timescales attached. And many of

them are clearly only the first step in a long road to decide on whether Government would operate better as a single legal entity is clearly a first step; and this needs to be made clear so people can all see and understand which of these policy statements are to cover the full five 2330

years and which are to be moving goals, amended and changing as part of this living document. Taking this a step further, there are a number of items included that are clearly just business

as usual. Why have these made their way into the Programme at all? The Minister for Policy earlier tried to explain this away by calling this a ‘programme full of actions’ but really it looks more like an attempt to ensure there was something in here for everyone, rather than just 2335

focusing on what we need to achieve. A large number of the policy statements start with ‘maintain’ or ‘continue’, which implies

that Government is doing these things anyway and will simply carry on. I would be more surprised if the Government was coming out and saying they were not going to ‘continue to support our emergency services’. That is kind of taken as read, surely? It is nice to see it being 2340

reinforced but I am not really sure it adds to this document. This goes further with a number of the actions identified simply being to implement already-agreed strategy. Again, that goes without saying.

A Programme for Government really should be things this Government wants to achieve, things it is going to do that are not already being done, and by including a number of these 2345

business as usual items it does detract from the overall programme, as I think has already been alluded to by the Hon. Member, Mr Peake. If these are the sort of overarching policies that targets are being set against then I feel I am right to be concerned that the performance indicators may be somewhat lax. However, the focus on the economic growth in this document is clear and I appreciate that this has been recognised by the Council of Ministers alongside a 2350

review of Government services. However, there is no real mention of any reform of our tax system – sorry, that should say

‘review’ of our tax system. There is a commitment to maintaining a stable tax and public revenue regime but this does not go so far as to commit to a full review of our public revenue, which I believe is key to putting the Island on a sustainable footing. 2355

It is true this has been a collaborative document and I would like to applaud the Council of Ministers and especially the Chief Minister in taking this inclusive approach. Although having said that, the end result is a document that does reflect the priorities of the Council of Ministers,


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which is as it should be; however collaborative the process this is a Government Programme to be delivered by Government, not by Tynwald, which should rightly provide good and proper 2360

scrutiny of Government policy. There are some parts of the document that do broadly reflect the views of Tynwald Members and I am glad there was some consensus amongst Hon. Members in putting it together, but the wording has clearly been through a number of mills. I would hope that when the final document is issued to every household on the Island it will come with a ‘Civil Service to English’ dictionary, so that people can really understand what some of the 2365

policy statements actually mean. I was interested to hear the Chief Minister's comments that they had taken on board the

views of the private and voluntary sectors, especially given that there was no public consultation on the Programme, and I would be interested to know exactly who outside this Hon. Court was consulted; after all, the respondents to normal consultations are publicly listed. I appreciate the 2370

comments from the Hon. Member for Douglas Central earlier today, but I still feel there is more clarity needed on why a proper consultation was not undertaken. Coming to the crux of the matter, there is nothing in this document that I find myself in significant opposition with which, in itself, is quite unusual. I am quite stubborn and it is not often that I will hold my tongue, so a document of this nature that I do not find myself at odds with is quite an achievement. 2375

But perhaps in bringing the Programme for Government to Tynwald so early on there has not been enough time for Council of Ministers to fully develop its vision for the next five years, and this is reflected in the document before us. The Chief Minister, in his speech, spoke of courage, ambition and prudence, and I feel this Programme leans too much towards political prudence and does not demonstrate real courage or ambition. If the document was setting out a clear 2380

direction of travel, clear outcomes and clear policies there would undoubtedly be things in there which would meet the commitments we are hearing from Ministers, but this document is not doing that and many of the statements are so broad they could really encompass just about anything.

Having said this, I do appreciate why the Programme has taken this shape, getting all of the 2385

independent Ministers to agree must have been quite a challenge. However, in presenting the Programme this way hinting at or nodding towards policies and actions – as the Minister for Policy and Reform stated in yesterday's briefing – it is simply shying away from making any real commitments. I was having great difficulty articulating this thought, but then on the weekend I was watching The West Wing and a comment from a rather frustrated character really struck a 2390

nerve. He said: it's not the ones we lose that bother me … It's the ones we don't suit up for.

And that is my real concern with this whole document. It sort of feels like the Council of Ministers has decided they would rather pull back from making any commitments for fear they would have to justify them. Or worse, for fear that they would have overreached and then failed to achieve all of their goals. I would have much preferred the Council of Ministers set fewer but 2395

more firm and ambitious targets. Maybe they would fail to achieve them all, but in trying to reach further they might just succeed in taking the Island forward.

I think FDR summed it up quite nicely when he said: Take a method and try it. It if fails, admit it frankly, and try another. But by all means, try something.

That should be the attitude of Government; but it is not really what I get from reading this Programme. It is what I get when I listen to Ministers speak, but it is not what I get from reading 2400

this document. I am really hopeful that the forthcoming performance indicators will just prove me wrong. I

do appreciate the difficulties faced in putting this together, but the Council of Ministers needs to have the confidence to set ambitious goals, meaningful goals and, importantly, have the confidence to occasionally fail, to pick themselves up, and to persevere. 2405


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This Programme is a first step in a long journey and I do truly appreciate the work that has gone into it and the approach that has been taken by the Chief Minister. I hope the comments made today can be taken on board so that as we go through this administration this Programme can develop and mature into something we can all be proud of. I have tried to keep my comments here in line with the environment we find ourselves in, that of constructive challenge, 2410

which I truly hope will continue. I will be supporting this Programme today as, despite my misgivings, I am willing to put my

faith in this administration. This Programme is a positive step in the right direction and I am really looking forward to seeing where that direction takes us.

Thank you, Mr President. 2415

The President: Hon. Member for Rushen, Mr Skelly. The Minister for Economic Development (Mr Skelly): Gura mie eu, Eaghtyrane. For a nation and sometimes a government known for its traa dy liooar attitude, you have got 2420

a document before you here that has been delivered at pace, as the Chief Minister stated in his introduction. But, listening to the contributors so far, I would suggest that we have a very well-balanced document here; a balanced document for our social and economic need going forward.

You look at the three main strategic objectives. ‘An Inclusive and Caring Society’: yes, we want that, of course we will. We want a ‘Financially Responsible Government’: of course we 2425

want that. And we want ‘An Island of Enterprise and Opportunity’. Very clearly, certainly as Minister of Economic Development, I would recognise it very clearly,

without a positive, sustainable, growing economy it is going to be very difficult to reach those two other strategic objectives of an inclusive caring society and a financially responsible government. So, right centre of that – and I have seen it in many manifestos – we want a 2430

positive, growing, sustainable economy. We know we have a strong economy already; it is a very diverse economy already, it is a very dynamic economy already; and it is actually the envy of many other jurisdictions, I might point out. So we have a very solid foundation.

But we must not be complacent. I heard that word earlier. We must not be complacent because the economy and this world is changing at such a rapid pace. We have seen Brexit; we 2435

have seen Donald Trump; we will see many more changes. Our challenges are going to come on many other levels. We have had this for many years here on the Isle of Man: beneficial ownership most recently; Moneyval is around the corner; and if we are not a responsible nation, and we cannot demonstrate that … and in this document it has strong statements that are connected to those commitments. It is going to be very important that we stay firm towards 2440

that. So we do need a strong economy because that supports everything else that we actually do;

but what do we do when we say we want a strong economy? As a Government we need to ensure that we have the economic ecosystem. We launched the Enterprise Development Fund – a long time in coming – brought forward by a motion several years ago by the Chief Minister 2445

now, and I know Mr Robertshaw contributed towards that very strongly, as did many other Members. We have now realised it, we now have it in train, and we are starting to generate investment in local business that is going to give real jobs here on the Isle of Man.

But what are the obstacles going forward? Funding is one of them. Other areas which I know Mr Shimmins is very strongly pursuing, as are many others, work permits. We brought forward 2450

exemptions and next month it is one year when we brought forward the exemption for our fastest-growing sector on the Isle of Man, and that is e-business. We will be able to tell you what that measurement is and we will hopefully be bringing forward, very shortly afterwards, further enhancements and potential exemptions. We need an economy that continues to grow, as I keep saying. 2455

Skills is vital, work permits is part of that component, but working very closely – and this is where we become inclusive as a Government –with my colleague, Minister Cregeen, skills is


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something we are going to be working on very much as a priority going forward. Skills shortage is all over the place, and one of the problems we do have is our own people: they are going away, they are being educated and graduating, getting skills but they are not necessarily coming 2460

back. We need to find mechanisms to bring those people back. We need to ensure our education system is aligned with our economy. We have teachers in

amongst us here now, who will understand the importance of the STEAM subjects – the science, technology, engineering, maths – but an important one in there is arts, the creative industries. If you marry that with those others, that is what you get in terms of a dynamic workforce and 2465

talent that we want to nurture because we need to think holistically. We can remove work permits for a short term, but that is like turning a tap on and off, as I see it. We need to think of things more holistically.

We have done this in a number of industries already – engineering, where we have increased the apprenticeships threefold. We have done it with the ICT where we are partnering with the 2470

private sector with regard to the Nunnery, providing skills going forward. So, yes, we must be able to adapt. That is a key element and this Government has to be very agile and nimble of foot.

So we talked about skills, I have talked about work permits. Planning is going to be another issue – I heard somebody mention the area of planning for the East. Something we are going 2475

have to be very conscious about, because if we want business to grow, they need employment opportunities to develop. We will have challenges on that front. We have a pipeline of developments that will be coming through this year that will challenge our planning area.

If I may go back to skills, and I have to say this because a month or so ago I met the new principal of the college, and I was very much encouraged and enthused by the reception I got 2480

there about marrying our education with the needs of our economy. They are introducing an academic qualification in cyber security – it is going to be a huge growth area and it is something that we would want to train our young people in going forward.

But, when you look at this document, there is reference to UNESCO. Mr Henderson highlighted it – very strong components with regard to the values of UNESCO. That is one thing 2485

that has really drawn me to what we have tried to set out here. The UNESCO biosphere values are embedded in this document. We have received this accreditation and it should not go unnoticed how difficult that accreditation was to achieve – nearly four years in the making. It is about the marriage between conservation, education, sustainability and development. That really is all about a special place to live and work. That is why you got that title right in there. 2490

Additionally, we want a special place to visit and invest. Invest? Why? Because that is going to support our economy going forward. To visit? Very simply, if you have an attractive place where people want to come and visit, they will likely want to come and live; they will likely want to come and work; and they will hopefully want to invest.

You have just heard a presentation about tourism opportunities going forward. Tourism is 2495

right in the centre plank. And do you know why we really need to focus in on that? Because we have to challenge ourselves about our USP – our unique selling point, going forward. Why do people want to come to the Isle of Man to live and work? Well, quite frankly, our competitive position is being eroded. You have just heard what is going on in the UK with regard to Brexit and we have got a competitive situation there. We have got competitive situations in many 2500

other jurisdictions, but one of the strongest USPs we have got is our quality of life. Mr Malarkey, representative of our emergency services, but particularly the Police. What a

safe place we have got to live. That is part of our quality of life and it is part of our USP. So, education and the public services that we do have, play a very valuable part.

But we do need to be responsible and I touched on it earlier. We need to be more 2505

transparent than we have ever been, and where we do become so transparent, not just in the industries that we represent, but as a Government trying to be open and transparent. It has been very welcoming to hear how we have tried to be more open and transparent as a


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Government and whilst this is the Council of Ministers’ document, this is your document as much as Tynwald. 2510

There is a lot of talk with regard to KPIs and I absolutely wholeheartedly agree we need not just KPIs, but meaningful KPIs that can be measured. Really, what you have got here is the opportunity to create the carrot and the stick. The carrot: there is plenty of ambition, I think, in there, there is plenty to be achieved in there. But the stick is, if we have KPIs you will be able to measure to it. And we do need to be able to communicate that. One of my bugbears is 2515

communication and consultation. Mr Hooper just mentioned how much consultation with regard to it. We have had very little because we have tried to deliver this as quick as we can, so we can get moving as quick as we can in terms of delivering benefit for the people we actually represent here.

I believe we need to look at consultations very differently. We need to be able to 2520

communicate with the wider public of the Isle of Man and, in particular, the Millennials. They are the ones that have come after the Baby Boomers, Generation X and are born after 1980, the Millennials. They are not going to necessarily read it, they may listen to the radio – I do not know. They want everything on their social media. We are going to be able to communicate better and that is something we do need to step up with. I think today’s exercise with regard to 2525

filming, is one element of being able to do that. We have to cross all spectrums of communication because every Government that comes in always says we need to communicate better; but there are so many mediums today I just hope that we can find a way to do that more effectively going forward. If we can get that message over, people will understand where our issues are and where our opportunities. 2530

Lastly, a living document: it absolutely must be a living document. Why? Because the world is changing so rapidly, as I touched on earlier and others have mentioned. And we have to have that as a living document because circumstances will change, priorities will change and therefore we have got to be ready to be able to change. The key element that we can do as a Government and as politicians, is that we can address legislation to help support our citizens. So whether it is 2535

amending legislation, introducing new legislation and supporting our economy, we have to be nimble of foot in order to do that.

It was interesting really, talking about changes and so forth. I know yesterday was ‘Blue Monday’ – they call it Blue Monday – the most depressing day of the year, all over the UK national press. I always think this is about perception and reality, and if you talk things down, 2540

they will always be down. I think today, we can turn the Isle of Man into ‘Bright Tuesday’, with a brighter future if we talk things up.

I liked when Mr Thomas referred to the ‘Middle Mann’ as something that he liked. It got me thinking with regard to Captain Quilliam in the middle of the Battle of Trafalgar when Lord Nelson asked him, ‘How are things?’ – when he was under siege from the French and the 2545

Spanish. He says, ‘Fair to middling’. And that is exactly where we are, because if you think, what does that mean in a Manxman’s term? Fair to middling is, ‘We are doing the very best possible’.

I believe this document before you here is that, exactly. It is ambitious, it is achievable, and I hope we can all work together to try and achieve that.

Gura mie eu. 2550

The President: Hon. Member for Douglas South, Mrs Beecroft. The Minister for Health and Social Care (Mrs Beecroft): Thank you, Mr President. I will try to be brief but I do have a few points that I would like to make. The first one actually 2555

is a personal one. The front of this document says: ‘Our Island: a Special Place to Live and Work’. Today is actually quite a special day for me and I would like to explain why.

During the last administration, I brought several motions to Tynwald asking for a revision of collective responsibility linked to a programme for government, asking for changes in the budget process. Needless to say I did not find any traction in the last administration, to say the least; 2560


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and to say that a few people said to me, ‘You will never live to see any of that!’ would be an understatement. A few people within the Court said it and a lot of people outside said it. And I have lived to see it. I am delighted to see it. I am not saying that anything I said in the last administration has made any difference whatsoever, but for me it is very special.

We have seen a change in collective responsibility; we now have our first Programme for 2565

Government. We have people talking about budgetary changes. It is such a sea change in the whole atmosphere of the place, in the whole outlook of everything. I can only hope and pray that it actually continues. I cannot see any reason why it should not, if we all remember why we came in here, that we want to make these great changes and that we want to achieve things for the people that we represent. So, as I say, for me it is a special day because it proves that if you 2570

do not lose sight of what you believe is important, you probably will live to see it happen as long as you keep faith with yourself, I think is what I am saying. Do not be led astray or led off course. If you really believe in something stick with it.

I congratulate the Chief Minister for actually grasping the mettle and changing collective responsibility, and producing this Programme for Government. It has not been an easy task and 2575

it has been something that has been done in such a short period of time. It is not perfect, I do not think anybody has stood up and said, ‘This is the most perfect document that we can ever produce’. It is not; it is our first one, so you cannot really expect to get it 100% right the very first time. But it is very good document; it is a very good base to work from.

As Mrs Caine said, it is very difficult to have a Programme for Government with what, in 2580

effect, is 30 different parties – and it is. Lord Lisvane said we could produce one in two weeks. Yes, we could if we had a party system, and you usually have a coalition of two or maybe three parties, no more; and they all have a programme for government ready. They sit and they look at the differences between those programmes and put in the ones that they agree on, then start arguing and horse-trading over the ones that they have not agreed on. 2585

So, yes, it can be done relatively quickly. But to have achieved within a 30-party system what has been achieved, I congratulate the Chief Minister, the Cabinet Office and all the team behind it. I think they have done quite an extraordinary piece of work, but one that will be improved on over time.

A lot of people have mentioned the KPIs and I agree with them. It is really crucial that we get 2590

these right. They have to be challenging enough that they are slightly difficult, or moderately difficult to achieve, but they also have to be achievable, because I know from personal experience, if you set a target that is really not achievable people are just going to say, ‘We are not going to bother’. That happened to me in a private sector company that I worked in. I was given a target one year that was achievable – it was really difficult but I got there and I got over 2595

it; and it was put up substantially the next year, where people who really should have had the equivalent targets were given targets far less than me. I went to the directors and I complained about it and they said, ‘Well, it’s your own fault. It’s because you did better than the others,’ and I said, ‘But you have given me something that is absolutely impossible to achieve and because of that I am not going to take any flipping notice of it’ – and I did not, I just carried on doing what I 2600

thought was the best; and I still achieved more because I set my own targets for myself that were difficult but achievable.

So I think we have to be careful that we get the balance right in that – that we should have open, accountable and easily transparent targets, KPIs – call them what you will – that everybody can understand, everybody can see, everybody can measure, not just within this 2605

Court but with the public. For example, in Health and Social Care we have said we will publish our waiting list by April –

and we will. The KPIs to say how much we are going to reduce them by, that is the target that we need to set now, and decide on one that is realistic. It is going to be challenging, but we hope it is achievable and everybody – it will be out in the public domain – will be able to hold us to 2610

account for that. Not just Tynwald Members, the public will be able to as well, which is what we should have. It should be open, honest and transparent.


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If we fail to achieve it we will explain why; and, as other people have said, there is actually nothing wrong if you have got a valid reason why you did not achieve something. I have no problem in coming back and saying, ‘We did not achieve this and this is the reason why,’ as long 2615

as it is a valid one. So I hope Members will take that as read that we genuinely do want open, accountable

scrutiny from people. We have to have it and, surprisingly, the more that we agree on the Programme for Government, the more important that scrutiny will be; because there is the old saying, ‘Government is only as good as its opposition.’ Well, if we are all agreeing on an awful lot 2620

of stuff (Mr Cretney: Hear, hear.) then we have not got enough opposition built within the system. By publishing everything and having measurables that the Committees and the public can hold us against, this is where the scrutiny will come from. But that is such an important element that I cannot stress it enough.

I did say I would try to be brief, but in a nutshell I think it is an excellent start, I think we will 2625

do better next year, but I hope everybody can get behind it – particularly in the spirit that it is meant, because as somebody who was a terribly severe critic of Government in the last administration while I was in the House and a severe critic of the previous administration to that when I was not, I really hope that this is the sign and a start of things to come where we are far more open, transparent and collaborative – with backbenchers, with the public, with everybody. 2630

Thank you. The President: Hon. Member for Ayre and Michael, Mr Baker. Mr Baker: Thank you, Mr President. 2635

I believe the document in front of us provides a shared picture of where we are going, which clearly has been lacking in the recent past. It provides a coherent framework in which to face the future. Some elements of it are clearly exciting, some are more mundane, and some really are things that reflect us catching up on past omissions. It reflects an inclusive, collaborative approach and has produced a document, which I believe is solid but flexible, which will adapt as 2640

time and circumstances change. This is a fundamental building block, but it is not the whole structure. The KPIs, the delivery

plans and the clear telecommunication programme that have all been talked about by previous speakers are all essential to roll this out and make it a fully comprehensive solution.

The key requirement is of course delivery and we need to get on and do what we are 2645

promising here. There will be challenges and problems, but provided we have maintained the right approach that has been demonstrated so far, we will overcome them. So if we can maintain the inclusivity, the positive approach and some tolerance and transparency when things go wrong, then I believe we will stay on the right course and we will deliver this Programme. I welcome the Programme for Government and believe it is a good foundation on 2650

which we can build over the coming years. Thank you. The President: Hon. Member for Peel, Mr Harmer. 2655

The Minister for Infrastructure (Mr Harmer): Thank you, Mr President. I just stand on a couple of points really. The first one is we all have a fresh mandate and this

is the perfect time to do a Programme for Government. I want to congratulate the Chief Minister and the Cabinet Office, and the Minister for Policy and Reform.

The other main point I want to make is it actually is very ambitious. It sets out a direction of 2660

travel, it sets out where we need to work collaboratively together for positive outcomes and I look forward to working with us to make this happen.

But there are some very real and tangible benefits for the people in the Island and a lot of this is to do with infrastructure: clear, defined outcomes. For example, putting in place demand-


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responsive transport, completing the substantial works of the Douglas Promenade. There are 2665

lots of words of ‘complete’ and ‘finish’ and ‘do’ in this Programme for Government; and investing in and improving our residential streets.

A number of outcomes on infrastructure lead on securing vital off-Island transport links that assist with the Island meeting both its economic and social needs. Certainly the Department will be progressing this work in this area to ensure this is achieved. 2670

Also infrastructure plays a role in contributing to an inclusive and caring Island, and we will continue to progress things to improve the way and enhance the way we live our lives, in which housing on the Island is provided and managed.

There are longer-term strategies that we are setting in place with this Programme for Government. For example, a National Infrastructure Strategy, a Harbours and Marine Strategy, 2675

the introduction of – one I am passionate about – the Active Transport Strategy, with the aim of increasing the number of people who walk and cycle.

Finally, rather than just KPIs, the other point I just wanted to briefly mention is the fact of service delivery plans; this is the next part of that and we will be now working on that.

But what I just want to leave with is two messages. One is this is quite a massive 2680

achievement. I completely agree with my colleague that this would not have been achieved a year or so ago. It is a massive collaborative effort. There has been a lot of discussion that is perhaps hidden, and disagreement, but we have come together, and it is incredibly ambitious. Some of the words seem maybe mundane, but in actual fact, I come back to it, ‘complete the Promenade’, ‘complete all the work in the MUA and the regional sewerage and things like that’, 2685

‘look at and complete’ – the one I am passionate about, again – on the infrastructure side is the 5G. There are lots of things that we have said that we will do. It is incredibly bold and ambitious, and with that I want to commend it to the Court.

Thank you. 2690

The President: Hon. Member, Mr Cregeen. The Minister for Education and Children (Mr Cregeen): Thank you, Mr President. My Department will be playing a full role in the Programme for Government over the next

five years – playing a key part in developing the skills and educational abilities for the 21st 2695

century. This will be critical in supporting the Government’s wish to create an Island of enterprise and opportunity for all, where individuals and businesses can grow and flourish in a world that is increasingly global, unpredictable and fiercely competitive.

We are, therefore, strongly committed to delivering four key goals to support the ambitious Programme for Government set out here today. 2700

The first of these is to develop and enhance our existing Early Years provision which has been mentioned earlier; and we are already working on a review of the existing provision to establish how we may provide more effective preparation for pre-school children for entry into reception class. We are, therefore, committed to improving inspection of existing nurseries to ensure a high quality of education is provided in the pre-school year, offering more training where 2705

needed and ensuring full Island coverage for such provision. Secondly, the Department is committed to lifelong learning for all members of our

community. This policy will be guided by the underpinning principles of fairness, equality, provision, collaboration between schools and with employers and enhancing learning experiences for all students. The Department will continue to support and develop the skills 2710

needed to flourish in adult life, alongside a sustained commitment to high standards of academic achievement.

University College Isle of Man is exploring new level 1 and entry level qualifications to help those who struggled through school. The schools and colleges are also looking to develop new and innovative vocational education, with new awards being offered in collaboration with the 2715


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support of the Scottish Awards Authority. We also remain committed to work-based learning, enhancing work placements and developing our adult and community education.

Thirdly, the Department remains focused on growing and developing higher education on Island, as we seek to increase opportunities for people, both young and old, to access such provision. The University College has plans to offer more higher education courses, and we are 2720

looking to collaborate more fully with other HE providers on Island. We are also seeking to consult with employers and our partner, University Chester, on what additional courses we might offer.

Finally, in the coming months we will be looking to bring forward a new Education Bill. This will be an important piece of legislation and we are already seeking the views of schools, the 2725

College, the union. We are also looking at consulting with parents, employers and with young people on what will be in the new Act. There will be many important issues to consider, such as catchment area policy, regulation of private education facilities and tutors, tightening regulations on quality assurance of schools, safeguarding, complaints and the role of the Education Council. 2730

In each of these four priorities we will be seeking to ensure that we are an inclusive and caring society and an Island that supports enterprise and opportunity, and that we do so in a financially responsible way; and my Department looks forward to playing its part in making this Programme for Government a success for all in our community.

We are planning work already underway against the four key Department of Education and 2735

Children priorities. We have also been working on safeguarding and inclusion, developing a process of quality assurance provision for special educational needs, continuing to explore a variety of ways to provide a good level of provision, piloting an additional resource centre and looking at development of financial management, exploring ways to validate and improve educational outcomes for looked after children. 2740

In sport, we have successfully completed redevelopment works at the NSC facilities following the flood; increased accessibility for people with disabilities, improved as part of the refurbishment; launched a new funding initiative through Isle of Man Sport to attract high-quality sports competition on Island; and bring more visitors and spectators to compete in the competitions against local teams to assist in growing the economy. We will also be launching a 2745

new online bookings portal for Manx Sport and Recreation in the new financial year, making it easier and quicker to book and pay for services and activities. We will also be increasing provision for wellbeing, using physical activity to help decrease the number of day’s absence in the Department.

Finally, in Education, we are engaged in extensive negotiations with the PSPA on teachers’ 2750

pensions. We are: seeking views from Education and Children’s staff, employers and parents on what they feel needs to be in the new Education Act; reviewing student grant regulations, including maintenance grants, and levels and eligibility criteria for maintenance grants; a new strategic plan for the Department, based on the new Programme for Government, and the strategic challenges facing the Department; continuing to implement new quality assurance 2755

standards in schools, expanding its learning and work placement information for our young people; and preparing for a visit of 30 Spanish head teachers during February – these people have acknowledged the benefit and quality that the education on the Isle of Man provides our young people.

All of these activities, planned or on-going, are designed to support and drive forward the 2760

priorities outlined in the Programme for Government and reflect my Department’s commitment to support the goals and ambitions of this administration, which I am pleased to support today.

In answering a couple questions, I did support the Hon. Member for Douglas South, Mrs Beecroft, in her motion regarding bringing Manx into the curriculum; and officers will be looking to come and give a presentation to Tynwald Members about what provisions are in place and 2765

what we are looking to do in the future.


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On a cultural point, the Arts Council intends to present to Tynwald Members, shortly, our plans to support not only the arts on our Island but also in relation to better community cultural engagement and a more attractive place to live and work.

I would like to take this opportunity, Mr President, to thank all those individuals involved in 2770

putting this document together. I am sure the Chief Minister will echo the point that we really do appreciate everybody’s comments.

Thank you, Mr President. The President: Hon. Members are free to remove jackets if they are getting uncomfortable. 2775

Hon. Member of Council, Mr Crookall. Mr Crookall: Thank you, Mr President. Can I start off by congratulating the Chief Minister and the Policy and Reform Minister and

the Cabinet Office for this document, not only for the speed that they have got it here, but the 2780

fact that we have all managed to have our hands on it and have input into it in such quick time. I am not saying that everybody is going to agree with everything that is in it, but it is a great

starting place, I believe, for the future and I do congratulate everybody involved, including the officers – just to echo the sentiments of my colleague, Mr Cregeen.

A few things that the Chief Minister said in his opening statement, that one or two people 2785

have picked up: inclusive and caring society. Let’s remember that one; that is the big one for me – inclusive and caring. So when we talk about the ‘Middle Mann’, we remember the middleman and let’s do it properly. (A Member: Hear, hear.)

Just as an aside, DoI have been talking for years about road tax and being able to pay it monthly or quarterly; the middleman cannot afford to pay it in one lump sum anymore. In a lot 2790

of cases that is the sort of thing that helps out. So let’s remember those little things that we think about and say, ‘Maybe we should do that’. Let’s do them, because that is what helps people now. When they have got to pay a big lump sum, whether it be rates which you can pay monthly or whatever, things like that are the ones that hurt people. When they have to pay out a cheque for, it may only be £230 or £270, whatever it is, that is what hurts people. So let’s 2795

remember that. When the Chief Minister said, I think it was, 110,000 visits to surgeries, that is very

commendable, but we could actually be better or make it easier for people – let’s open at half past seven in the morning or until eight o’clock at night so people that want to go to work can actually go to the surgery and then go to work and not have to take time off work. 2800

Those are the things that make life easier. We have given everybody a kicking for the last five years and I am not proud to say that, as part of the former Government. We made tough decisions and there are going to be more in the next five years to come, but if we can make life easier let’s try and do it. So things like that really do help, because people want to go to work but they need to go to the doctor, so if they can get in there early or go in there later that is fine. 2805

The Minister for Health has said that they are going to publish the hospital waiting lists; can we include the GPs in that so people know how long they are going to have to wait when they go to the surgery? I remember recently 12 days of having to wait – things like that. That is not good, but if they know then they know what is coming, they know what to expect.

I am delighted to see in here … I will come back to that one in a minute. 2810

The Education Minister mentioned – the Economic Development Minister mentioned as well – about bringing our graduates back. Yes, we want them to come back, but somebody actually said, ‘A place of opportunity’ – if we provide the place of opportunity they will come back. If you look around this Court at the moment we have got Hon. Members who were born here – and I am looking at Minister Cannan, born here, went away, was trained in the Army, came back; 2815

(Laughter) Minister Watterson, (The Speaker: Former Minister.) went away, trained, worked away a bit, got a bit of experience away, came back. On the other hand, we have Mr President,


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who is not from the Island, his education was paid for by somebody else – as was Dr Allinson here – but they are now here.

If we provide the opportunity people will come back here and it may well be that … I have got 2820

four children: they go away to work but eventually they come back. If we provide them with the land of opportunity they will come back eventually. It might not be straight away, but if we give them a good education – those that are here – they go away, they gain more experience away and then they come back. We do not have to have everybody coming back at once.

We heard this morning that there is a chance of 550 jobs coming up in the very near future. 2825

That is a wonderful thing: 550 jobs in the very near future – people coming to the Island to work. That will have a heck of a knock-on on everything we do, from people who supply food, houses and allsorts. So we are doing something right here. So we do not expect everybody to come back straightaway from university once they have graduated.

I will just pick up here, it says we are going to complete the regional sewerage infrastructure 2830

by the end of this administration. I am so happy to hear that. Certainly, as a former Chairman of the Water and Sewerage Authority and now working at the Manx Utilities Authority, and particularly living in Peel, I know how long people in the west have waited for sewage treatment in the west. If that is done in the next five years the people of the west – and I know the Minister for Infrastructure will help us, and the MUA as well, to make it happen – we will be delighted. It 2835

is long overdue, as is the rest of the works on the Isle of Man. In 1991, I think, we started IRIS. Yes, there were hiccups along the way; yes, there have been

changes. We know where we are going now. With the Treasury Minister’s commitment to provide that money and with the Department and MUA, let’s get it done. The Isle of Man deserves this – not just Peel and other places; the Isle of Man deserves it. Let’s do it. 2840

There are some big targets we have set ourselves: ‘to set out a full plan of rates modernisation by October 2017’ – again, something else that has been promised for a long time. I would be delighted to see that come forward this year. One that has not been mentioned, and I am surprised and I do not know what the figure is – and I do not suppose the Chief Minister has got it, but if he can get it at some stage, or the Treasury Minister: ‘set out a plan to improve the 2845

way debts are identified, collected and monitored by April 2018’. We have a huge outstanding debts bill – (Several Members: Hear, hear.) absolutely huge. It gets to the stage where we write a lot off, we let people get away with it; whereas other people who cannot afford to pay it scrimp and save and do pay it. Let’s get things right here and if somebody can provide us with that figure that is great. 2850

The other one is: ‘develop a high level policy for means-testing by May 2017’ – that is a big one and if we can do that that would get us a long way.

Thank you, Mr President. A Member: Hear, hear. 2855

The President: Hon. Member for Douglas Central, Mrs Corlett. Mrs Corlett: Thank you, Mr President, and I will be brief as other than my support, there is

really little left to add. 2860

Contained within this document are many of the principles that guide me politically and I thank the Chief Minister and the Council of Ministers for the inclusion not only of the principles but the actions and measured outcomes.

As many people will not even read this document, the most important outcome is the Manx people really do feel that our Island is a special place to live and work, and that they have 2865

elected a Government that is listening to them and working for them. The most important key performance indicator is our own. As a parliament, are we delivering? That remains to be seen, but like other Hon. Members I feel there is a will and a confidence in this Court to make this happen.


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Thank you. 2870

A Member: Hear, hear. The President: I call on the Chief Minister to reply. 2875

The Chief Minister: Thank you, Mr President, and I thank all the Hon. Members who have taken part in this, and the good will that has been expressed. Yes, we have had some people who have had concerns, but I expected that because we cannot get everything that everyone wants, and maybe we have not explained it how everyone wants it. It is trying to get your message over and I think come April, when the greater detail from each of the Departments 2880

comes through, hopefully some of the concerns that Hon. Members have had … they will be reassured when they see the details.

If you just bear with me a second, there have been lots of notes but I think everyone deserves a comment – who have mentioned it.

First of all, we started off with Mr Henderson, the Member of Council, and I appreciate his 2885

feedback and I hope he will judge us on our actions now. I take his point about conservation, but would say that the UNESCO biosphere commitment means we will ensure our environment is conserved and acts in harmony with our community – keywords which we did put in there.

He also appreciated the workshop; and that was something I have always said – that we do not have all the ideas in the Council of Ministers; it is listening to other people. That is how you 2890

make a plan. He highlighted the work on Brexit, which obviously – as I have mentioned quite a lot in the

speech – was not in the Programme for Government, but it is incredibly important and we will be delivering a Programme for Government with Brexit in the background and, for those of you who checked your news at lunchtime, you will see the Prime Minister has delivered a speech on 2895

Brexit and laid out some of the outcomes which are going to be probably lots of certain areas that maybe we would like to have kept in, but we are going to have to carry on with that.

He was the first man who came up – if you pardon the pun – with the ‘Middle Mann’ and the squeezed middle, but I suppose all I can say, tongue in cheek, is I am the man from Middle! But, yes, it is important that we look after the squeezed middle classes and do our utmost to help 2900

them, and in my speech I allude to the fact that people are still struggling. We might have 32 years of economic growth, but there are some people who have not seen that economic growth in their income, and we need to do our utmost to ensure that they are helped by this administration.

The biodiversity plan is still in place and I am sure Minister Cregeen will respond on our 2905

history, and he did, because obviously Mr Henderson was looking for an assurance for more Manx-based subjects in our curriculum and the Education and Children Minister came back just now to give that reassurance. So we have been listening and where it is reasonable and we can sign up then we are happy to try to be as reactive as quickly as possible.

Dr Allinson, the Hon. Member for Ramsey, welcomed the paper and I thank him for his 2910

support. He gave a generalised talk on his responsibility as the Chairman of the MUA and obviously the 5G. If we can deliver that in this administration, that is a massive undertaking. So anyone who feels that this administration does not have ambition, that element alone – improving the speed of broadband and the connectivity around our whole Island – is clearly giving a significant undertaking to the population. I thank him for his support. 2915

We next had the Hon. Member, Mr Peake, Member for Douglas North: ‘need to make smarter time-specific, work together for the benefit of the Island.’ He too was one of the first to – well, a number of you went on about the key performance indicators and it is absolutely key and you all have my assurances, Hon. Members, that you will get to see the proposals before the April Tynwald. We will have a discussion, get your feedback and if you are not happy about 2920

elements or you seek further explanation then that will happen. We are going to continue with


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this, because you have seen what we have achieved. In 100 days this is what we have managed to do. Yes, it is not perfect – as the Hon. Minister for Health and Social Care pointed out – but it is a step in the right direction.

Looking at some of my notes before, I think we are 18 months ahead of schedule of previous 2925

administrations in getting where we are now; and by working together and listening to one another and being constructive, I think that is one of the reasons why we are where we are now, instead of infighting all the time, which just causes delay. So, yes, I do get the importance of the key indicators and I hope the Hon. Member will be reassured in April and before when he gets to have a discussion on it. 2930

I move on next to the Hon. Member for Garff, Mrs Caine, and I thank her for her support. She is right. She uses one of my key phrases, the devil is in the detail, and she was absolutely spot-on. She was pleased with pre-school education and the Year of Culture. I think the Education Minister again gave a little bit more detail of pre-school – the improvements we are looking to make in the early years, and the need to balance the view of business and unions. I do have 2935

meetings coming up with union representatives. Minister Thomas, the Minister for Policy and Reform, has already met, and has regular meetings with the unions – mainly on the pension side of things. We will engage with the third sector and trade unions, and we do have meetings coming up.

Moving on to my good friend and neighbour, Mr Robertshaw, Member for Douglas East: 2940

‘should not underestimate work in getting this done,’ but he was supportive and I appreciate him for his support. Obviously, KPIs: we have been briefed by the Treasury Minister and the Budget in February will set out how we start to respond to those changes that he was mentioning. I do not want to steal the Treasury Minister’s thunder. I am sure some of the concerns or questions he had will be hopefully answered in the Budget next month. He did 2945

realise that an awful lot of maybe what this administration wants to do, you cannot achieve in your first Budget, because you are too close to it, but you can get a few things in and I am sure the Treasury Minister will hopefully impress – I am sure he will.

But if I can assure him that the Council of Ministers subcommittees will be taking a far greater role at a strategic level to join up Government and drive our Programme forward. He did 2950

make a very important point, and actually I have had a lengthy conversation with him about this, and that is sometimes we have key issues that are strategic. Maybe we have got to get smarter at handling those key issues and ensuring that we get the resources and the expertise to those key issues straight away, rather than struggling on for six months where we do not have the skills experience and then we lose an opportunity, or we do not got anything anywhere near as 2955

good. So all I can say to that is I have listened; watch this space and hopefully you will be happy in the next three or four months. We are working on a project at the moment and I hope that you will be happy. He had a song about ‘we’ but I think we is better than I, as Minister Cregeen used to always lecture me when he was a backbencher and I was the Health Minister, and if I said too many ‘Is’ in my speech he used to send me little notes, so I have tried to be more 2960

inclusive. (Laughter) We move on to Mr Ashford, Hon. Member for Douglas North, and I thank him for his support.

I agree it must be meaningful and measurable and his Cabinet role will take a key role in co-ordinating support in a subcommittee to drive the Departments. Again, obviously he was very keen about the KPIs and that is the returning theme from quite a lot of Members. As I said at the 2965

start of this speech, I do want to reassure you all we will be taking that on board. You will have involvement and we want to listen to your views on that before we even get to April Tynwald.

We then move on to my colleague from Middle, Mr Shimmins. He liked the title, ‘Inclusive and responsible’, he was seeking clarity again on KPIs and we will work with the Departments, as I have already mentioned. 2970

In terms of planning and the development of the plan we will respond to this, and I think Chris mentioned in detail, but we do plan to have a full review of our planning service and implement it in the next 18 months. So again, for those who feel maybe there is not enough


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ambitious in this plan, I would say that is a target we have set. Having been Chairman of Planning, to come up with a change in planning and implement it within 18 months, by gum that 2975

is ambitious, for those of you who have ever had to tackle the Planning Department as a non-Government member! I would say that is quite an ambitious target so I hope he will be happy with that, but equally if he has ideas on how we can improve on that plan then I am more than happy to listen to it.

We then move on to Mr Speaker – we need to ensure we scrutinise properly, and I totally 2980

accept this, it is a valid point. We need to scrutinise this Court and it helps keep Government on track. I am not saying it is an opposition, it is just making sure that what we do is properly scrutinised. So if there is an area that we maybe have not got right or we have not thought about … As I say, we are open to new ideas or maybe changing our tack if we have not got something quite right. 2985

He also mentioned training for all Members to help them improve their game, and he is quite right. We have put in plan training for the Council of Ministers and I think when we see how that goes and how it works, then I am happy to offer training to the backbenchers if there are areas where they would like to take part in, if they think it would help their skills, because it is all about if you can improve yourself you can improve the service we give the public. So I am more 2990

than happy to take that on board. I thank Mr Thomas for his speech. I sometimes think I might not give him a diplomatic lead on

some things but his work in getting this document here, his sincerity, the hours he has put in – I know we have all worked on this, we have all taken part in this – but the Hon. Member for Douglas West … Central (Laughter) has genuinely worked his socks off for this, with Dan and the 2995

team who are here today, and he does deserve an awful lot of credit for getting us here and for driving it forward. That does come under his responsibility and he did mention the ‘Middle Mann’ too.

We move on to Mr Moorhouse and I thank him for his comments. He gave us four key points; we will take them on board. The fiscal plan from Treasury will leave us in a position in the longer 3000

term, that is our plan to be paying money back into the reserves, that is a responsible government, and that is something we will be taking seriously, so thank you very much for your points, we do take them on board.

The Hon. Member for Douglas East, Miss Bettison, thank you, again, for your support. We will have a session in mid-February for all Members to work on the performance indicators so 3005

hopefully you will be able to make that meeting and take part and give us your feedback on it. Moving on to the Hon. Member for Ramsey, Mr Hooper, and I thank him for his kind words at

the start. Obviously he was yet another person where the indicators are key, and he is absolutely right. As I say, we will be discussing this in February, hopefully we will get the appointment out as soon as possible and you will be able to make it. I liked his ‘Civil Service to English’ phrase, 3010

into layman’s language and we did do this, hopefully it worked okay, in the last administration with Health and Social Care, the five-year plan. We had someone write it in English rather than ‘Civil Service speak’ because it is key that the message that we put out is understandable. We have all lived and breathed this for a hundred days but it is important that to the average person on the street who specialise in their own area and have a busy life, and life to get on with, that 3015

they can clearly understand where we are wanting to go. So I was happy with his comments and constructive criticism is always welcome. It is the only way we are ever going to improve.

Moving on to Minister Skelly, I thank him for his comments. He explained some of the programme that his Department will be delivering and there is some good news there. His Department’s Aircraft Registry, winning the Best Global Aircraft Registry – wow, that is some 3020

accolade, isn’t it! (A Member: Hear, hear.) And with the British Cycling Festival coming back … Maybe we are getting on, with the extra jobs and everything … I do not want to be over-optimistic but I think the foundations are there for moving forward.

Next was my colleague Mrs Beecroft, the Hon. Member for Douglas South and the Health and Social Care Minister. It seems strange in the hundred days as an ex-Minister sitting with 3025


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someone who has now got my old job, I wish her well on that. She is very passionate about health and social care and I am sure she will deliver on getting the targets published for everyone. I am very supportive of that idea and I am sure, as I say, she will deliver on her promises and a very passionate area too.

A good foundation – if we aim for perfection I sometimes think we will achieve excellence 3030

along the way, and I think she clearly showed that it is not perfect, but it is a good foundation, I think that is a key point. Again, she was quite right to raise that KPIs have to be achievable but they have to be tough. They do not want to be too easy it is getting the right balance, I suppose.

Mr Baker, the Hon. Member for Michael, I do support his assertion that we are about delivery and that is a fundamental approach. Talking the talk, we have to deliver the key requirements of 3035

this Programme. Mr Harmer, I thank him very much for his comments, the Hon. Member for Peel .He sets out

the direction of travel and gave the programme that his Department will be delivering and it is very ambitious – completing the promenade and 5G, he raised.

Mr Cregeen, the Minister for Education and Children, he gave the commitment to the 3040

Member of Council, Mr Henderson, on more Manx in our curriculum but he also mentioned the four areas that this Department were working on and the Early Years I think is key to this administration, and to all Members.

Mr Crookall, Member of Council, liked the words, ‘Inclusive and caring society’. He also mentioned the Middle Mann, and I think we will see if we can include waiting times for GPs as 3045

well, that was one of the areas. Listening, I am sure the DOI Minister will take on board the paying the car tax monthly for people to see if that is something we can help with. If it is practical and it is achievable then I am sure he will take those comments on board. And if he completes the regional sewage infrastructure, again in five years, those who understand the significance of that statement will realise it is an ambitious target. 3050

I move on to Mrs Corlett, I thank her very much for her comments, the Hon. Member for Douglas … I am going to say Central, I nearly said West. I know a lot of her principles are in this and we agree to engage the public more. I hope we can pull together a smaller document which is more relevant for them. And just while I am on that topic I was speaking to one of my colleagues in the back row here regarding Mrs Caine and she came up with mentioning an email 3055

address, Mr President, where members of the public can respond to their views on this document. We have set up already, it is [email protected]. We will advertise this but any members of the public listening to this broadcast, if you go on to [email protected] to give your views on this document. Where you think there are maybe areas we have missed or areas where you would like clarification, then please do feel free to take part. 3060

And that, I think, brings me to the end. I would like to thank you all very much for your comments. I beg to move.

The President: Hon. Members, the motion is that set out at Item 3 on Supplementary Order

Paper No. 1, the Programme for Government 2016-2021 be approved. Those in favour, please say aye; against, no. The ayes have it.

A division was called for and electronic voting resulted as follows:

In the Keys – Ayes 24, Noes 0

FOR

Dr Allinson Mr Ashford Mr Baker Mrs Beecroft Miss Bettison

AGAINST None

mailto:[email protected]

mailto:[email protected]


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Mr Boot Mrs Caine Mr Callister Mr Cannan Mrs Corlett Mr Cregeen Ms Edge Mr Harmer Mr Hooper Mr Malarkey Mr Moorhouse Mr Peake Mr Perkins Mr Quayle Mr Robertshaw Mr Shimmins Mr Skelly Mr Speaker Mr Thomas

The Speaker: Mr President, in the Keys, 24 votes for, none against.

In the Council – Ayes 7, Noes 0

FOR

Mr Anderson Mr Coleman Mr Corkish Mr Cretney Mr Crookall Mr Henderson Mr Turner

AGAINST None

The President: And in the Council 7 for and none against. The motion carries unanimously.

Order of the Day

3. Supplementary Vote – Department of Health and Social Care –

Amended motion carried The Minister for Health and Social Care to move:

That Tynwald authorises the Treasury, in respect of the year ended 31st March 2017, to apply from General Revenue a sum not exceeding £11,100,000 being the additional amount required by the Department of Health and Social Care in respect of excess expenditure incurred in the provision of its services.


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The President: We revert now to our main Order Paper, Item 3, Supplementary Vote and I 3065

call on the Minister for Health and Social Care, Mrs Beecroft to move. The Minister for Health and Social Care (Mrs Beecroft): Thank you, Mr President During the financial year to 31st March 2017, the Department of Health and Social Care

forecasts that it will exceed its revenue budget by £11.1 million. This figure represents 3070

overspending of 5.5% against the Department’s net budget for the year of £198.4 million, and I seek the Court’s approval today for a supplementary vote of this amount.

The main headings of forecast overspend are: Noble’s Hospital, £13.2 million; the costs of treating patients in the UK, £2.1 million; Mental Health Services £1.4 million; Government Catering Services £1.3 million; and these total £18 million. 3075

However, as last year, there are a number of Divisions within the Department, notably the Children and Families Division, that are forecasting underspends as a result of continuing good management and prudence. The net result is an overall departmental forecast position of £11.1 million overspent.

I am, of course, aware that this is the second year in succession that the Department has 3080

sought such approval from this Hon. Court and I wish to assure Members that I take this matter extremely seriously. Ensuring my Department lives within its resources voted to it for the 2017-18 Budget will be one of my highest priorities.

Having recognised the need to become more efficient in operation, I think it is important that I remind Members of the consequences. To balance the books, it is likely that hard and 3085

uncomfortable choices will need to be made. To give context to this statement I think it is important that I take some short time to restate

the position given to this Court by my hon. colleague, the Chief Minister, as former Minister for Health and Social Care, in his speech in June 2016. That speech explained in some detail the challenges of both rising demand for health and social care services and the rising cost of 3090

providing those services. Mr President, our position is not unique or indeed unusual; it is replicated in most Western

health economies and I am sure it will not have escaped Hon. Members’ attention that the NHS in England is facing very similar challenges.

The King Fund, in its report entitled, ‘Tackling the growing crisis in the NHS’ published in April 3095

2016, stated: The NHS faces unprecedented financial and operational challenges as a result of a rising demand for services and constrained resources. NHS providers recorded a record deficit in 2015/16, general practice is in crisis and mental health and community services are under huge pressure.

Here on the Island, my Department is responsible for a wider range of service provision than the NHS in England, encompassing Social Services, for example. That is a challenge, but also an opportunity.

The integrated nature of the service means that redesigning has to be carefully thought 3100

through to ensure that a decision which apparently saves money in one operational area does not just merely increase cost pressure on another area.

Hon. Members, this is too important an issue for quick-fix solutions to be rushed through. The Department’s strategy, approved by this Hon. Court is to refocus the provision of care away from the acute setting and into our communities. The strategy has a five-year time frame; it will 3105

take all of that to make the significant changes that are needed. We should celebrate the fact that our life expectancy is rising. However, the health care

needs of older people tend to be more complicated and expensive, leading to significant cost pressures throughout the system.

The lack of nursing care beds on the Island remains an issue which still needs to be addressed 3110

over the coming years. If we fail to address this, then price inflation will likely continue in the nursing home sector. In the absence of sufficient alternative capacity, it is likely that more


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people would have to be accommodated at Noble’s Hospital, which would not be the best solution for them or for the taxpayer.

Mr President, I have taken some time to explain again to this Court that the Department 3115

faces significant challenges, which will continue to test it for the foreseeable future. However, I am very aware that the Department must assure this Court that it is able to effectively manage the resources which have been voted to it.

It is imperative that the Department gets a grip on its spending and achieves financial balance. Much work has already been undertaken and is ongoing in this regard. And if I may just 3120

give a couple of examples where work is already underway – we are looking at all areas but this will just give you a flavour of things – we are looking at the way prescriptions are handled; both the criteria for free prescriptions and the cost of prescriptions to people who pay. Ninety percent of all prescriptions are free of charge at the moment. We have to look if this is right in the current economic climate that we face. Is it right that people like myself, of pension age, are 3125

entitled to free prescriptions? We have to look at off-Island costs of consultants. Do we need to be sending people over for

a five-minute consultation to say, ‘How are you feeling? How are things going?’ Could that not be done using technology without them leaving the Island? There are all sorts of areas that we need to look at. 3130

Mr Robertshaw thanked me for my honesty the other day in the presentation and I will be honest again – I do not intend to be Minister for Health and Social Care just to keep track of a budget. We have to be financially prudent, we have to come in on target, I am not denying that but I want to make improvements as well. Things like the waiting times, we have to make improvements. There are areas where clearly we are not to the standard that we would wish to 3135

be. The public know this; we know this and we have to address these areas so I do not want just to be number crunching whilst I am Minister for that Department. I want to make significant progress as well and bring up standards and bring up the satisfaction that the public will have in the services that we will provide.

And at a departmental level we continue to review the process of budgeting and resource 3140

allocation. For too long the Department has prepared a budget based on rolling forward the previous year’s submission. This mechanism does not take into account any changes in priority and builds previous inefficiencies into future planning. So we have to strip it back and look and find where the inefficiencies are so that we can use that money to help balance our books and to make things better for people; that give them a better service. 3145

We have begun to work on benchmarking costs for defined areas of clinical treatment against publicly available benchmarks from the UK. And this is where it will highlight where maybe we are getting things right and where we are not. Full implementation of this methodology will take significant time as it requires the capturing and classification of data to levels of analysis not previously undertaken. This will require investment in our processes and systems and is one of 3150

the many benefits of the Noble’s digital programme currently being implemented as part of the Government’s wider digital strategy.

My Department has recently also negotiated membership of the North of England NHS commercial procurement collaborative. This is a body which represents many NHS bodies in the north of England and will enable us to take advantage of aggregation of demand and economies 3155

of scale in our purchasing. We must, of course, also take additional measures that require a longer lead-in time. These

include changes in working practice that must be negotiated with staff. In the longer term, the fundamental restructuring of our services set out in the five-year plan will lead to further improvements in cost and resource utilisation. 3160

I now turn to the individual divisions that we forecast will overspend this year. It is important that Members understand that much work has already taken place to change the Department’s financial performance and contain the deficit for this year. I also want to explain what plans are in place to ensure the Department meets its financial targets for 2017-18.


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Noble’s Hospital has faced budgetary challenges for a long time. It remains the single biggest 3165

divisional overspend and it has the greatest potential for savings, mostly in the cost of the medical workforce. As has been said, under the circumstances in Questions and motions etc. the biggest problem we have there that takes most of the overspend is recruiting medical staff. At the moment we are too reliant on locum and bank staff. So recruitment and retention has to be a priority for us. 3170

We forecast that costs at Noble’s will have grown from £87 million last year to £91 million this year. However, some £3.5 million of that increase relates to a transfer of superannuation costs from the Treasury. If one discounts this cost transfer, we forecast that the net cost rise at Noble’s will have been constrained to £700,000, or under 1% of total cost.

This, of course, still remains too high and a cost improvement plan has been implemented by 3175

management at the hospital. Very challenging cost reduction targets have been set for the current year and will be needed next year, equivalent to almost £8 million.

The Medical and Surgical Divisions are making steady progress in reducing very expensive locum or temporary staffing arrangements. By advertising and filling new permanent roles they are able to generate significant net savings. 3180

Management at Noble’s has identified the posts which will benefit from this approach and has commenced recruitment. Several posts have already been filled and projected savings begin to accrue from January 2017 as new staff take-up their roles and locum costs are removed. In this context it is important that Hon Members understand that recruitment of doctors, especially from outside the EU, is a lengthy, expensive and very complex process. 3185

Implementation of the Noble’s Digital Strategy will not only reduce costs but also improve patient care and safety. In addition, as I have already explained, it is a key requirement to deliver the management information needed to help make more informed decisions about our financial resource allocation.

The management of Noble’s is also looking at reorganisation of the Hospital Support Services, 3190

including portering, switchboard and house-keeping to realise efficiency gains. One particular challenge at the hospital is expenditure on therapeutic drugs, which has risen

by 17% over the past two years. As an illustration of the individual cost of some of these items, we estimate that half of the hospital drug budget was spent on only 15 drugs. We purchase the drugs through national NHS contracts to obtain best prices, but the cost pressure continues to 3195

be demand led. Inevitably the only way to constrain this cost is to effectively manage demand. The cost of providing treatment in NHS England facilities remains a significant financial

challenge. As more specialist treatments are developed patients are referred to hospitals in the UK, with consequent costs of treatment and travel being borne by the Department.

The Department cannot offer these specialist services itself. Indeed, the small population of 3200

the Island would not make it safe to do so. However, we have plans to change the procedures by which patients are tracked into and through the NHS England system to ensure that only those services which are required to be provided off-Island are done there. Where simple follow-up procedures – which I referred to before – are required it makes far better financial sense, and is better for the patient, for those procedures to be provided on-Island. We plan to implement 3205

these changes during the first quarter of 2017-18. The Mental Health Service has introduced a new management policy for referrals to specialist

UK providers. This includes a clearly specified referral pathway and a panel for reviewing and authorising applications. The policy aims to ensure that referrals are placed with the right provider for the shortest possible time with a view to repatriation back to the Isle of Man at the 3210

most clinically appropriate time. In addition, the service also introduced commissioning arrangements for UK mental health

placements. As of 1st September 2016 the Mental Health Service established a contract for 12 months with St Andrew’s Health care, the largest mental health charitable provider in the UK. The contract enables priority access to an agreed number of beds in secure facilities for male 3215

and female adults as well as adolescents. The contract is designed to contain costs and provide


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timely access for patients presenting with serious and complex clinical risk who cannot be managed in the Isle of Man.

One significant challenge facing the service is the funding of appropriate treatment for forensic patients. These patients require facilities and special skills that the service does not 3220

provide on-Island. The current solution is to refer to a provider in the UK, but this is extremely expensive. It represents a demand driven cost, which has grown significantly over the past two to three years and my Department is working with the Department of Home Affairs on this matter

To illustrate the scale of the issue, we estimate that £700,000 of overspending on the Mental 3225

Health Service relates to off-Island forensic patient placement costs. The block booking of beds was designed to manage non-forensic referral costs, but if the numbers of forensic patients taking these places continues to increase, cost pressure will continue.

Government Catering Services was created as a shared service in 2014, bringing together hospital catering, primary and secondary school meals and commercial outlets at Noble’s 3230

Hospital, Central Government Office, the College and the National Sports Centre. The service was given a savings target of £800,000 over three years, a figure which was then removed from the budget.

Whilst there was a savings target, there was no clear plan on how the savings were to be achieved. In the short-term a number of measures have been taken including some modest price 3235

rises and centralised procurement of plastics, dried goods, confectionery and frozen foods. However, it is recognised that a more radical approach is likely to be required to make the service sustainable in the medium-term.

Hon. Members, I hope I have been able to demonstrate to you that my Department is facing significant and pressing challenges which it must address, in common with most other Western 3240

countries. I recognise that we must show that we can deliver a more efficient service and that we must operate within our financial means.

Efficiency gains and cost savings must and will be delivered. However, the long-term solution, to create a health and social care system which fully meets the needs of its users and delivers cost effective care, is to move the care away from the acute setting into the community, in line 3245

with the already agreed strategy. The Department’s greatest challenge for 2017 will be to deliver an extremely stretching

efficiency plan whilst re-engineering services to meet the agreed strategic objectives. I beg to move the motion standing in my name. 3250

The President: Hon. Member for Onchan, Mr Callister. Mr Callister: Thank you, Mr President. I beg to second and reserve my remarks. 3255

The President: The Hon. Member for Rushen, Mr Speaker. The Speaker: Mr President, I rise today to support the motion but not unconditionally. Given what we already know about the demographics of our Island and the rising cost of

living we should not perhaps be surprised that the Department of Health and Social Care has 3260

overspent its budget this year to the tune of £11.1 million. Indeed, there was nothing new about this at all, and we have seen not just last year but dotted throughout the Department’s history a request for additional funds over and above that voted by Tynwald during the Budget process. And as an aside, as part of the research that I was doing I actually found this from Tynwald Court Hansard, 23rd March 1943, when they came back with a 5.7% overspend on the mental health 3265

hospital board expenses, so there really is nothing new under the sun.


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This tells me two things: firstly, that our budget system is not fit for purpose and I really just echo the Minister’s remarks on that one. Secondly, we are not putting the systems in place to prevent recurring overspends in this crucial area of public policy.

I do not intend to talk at length today about what I perceive to be the failures of our budget 3270

process. I have visited the themes before and will do so again in future. However, I do think it is appropriate that we ensure proper accountability for public money. And whilst I am not wanting anyone’s head on a spike I do believe that it sends out the wrong message if we do not hold Departments to account for their overspends and to ensure that measures are being put into place to rectify the situation going forward. 3275

I therefore have an amendment, Mr President, which adds to the motion and requires the Department to lay before Tynwald no later than July its plan for cost savings and revenue increases, as well as details as to how the Department will monitor its financial performance:

Insert after ‘That Tynwald’, ‘(a)’ Add at the end ‘and (b) requires the Department to lay before Tynwald no later than July its plan for cost savings and revenue increases, as well as details as to how the Department will monitor its financial performance.’ It is often said that insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting

different results. Well, if we do not change how we budget for and monitor public spending in 3280

our health system, how can we expect anything other than overspends in future years? Having said that, I do acknowledge the work that was outlined in a Private Members’ Briefing

in the Barrool Suite last week and the speech by the Hon. Minister this afternoon, and whilst this has assisted Hon. Members in understanding more about the work the Department is undertaking, I do feel that it is appropriate that there is public scrutiny and there is seen to be 3285

public scrutiny to ensure that both Government is acting as an effective custodian of the public purse and that we as Parliament, as Tynwald, are doing our part in overseeing that work.

I would like to think that there was nothing radical or controversial in the proposals that I put in my amendment. It supports the provision of the money that the Department requests, but I would also like to think that it ensures that the Department remains directly accountable to 3290

Tynwald for its financial performance and that we should take an active interest in the solution as well as the problem.

I hope in the interests of openness, accountability and transparency Hon. Members will support the amendment before you today and I welcome the Department of Health and Social Care’s proposals to ensure that the supplementary votes do not become a regular thing in due 3295

course. The President: The Hon. Member for Ayre and Michael, Mr Cannan. The Minister for the Treasury (Mr Cannan): Thank you, Mr President. 3300

I am pleased to second the amendment from the Speaker as I believe it to be eminently sensible that the Department do come back to Tynwald and ultimately outline its plan for cost saving and revenue increases as to how the Department is going to go about both monitoring its financial performance and improving its financial performance against its service delivery.

But, Mr President, this whole item has been one of concern that the new Treasury board and 3305

I immediately identified when we started our roles and we have discussed the health service regularly in our meetings. In fact, this very item of asking the Department to justify to us how it intends to find cost savings, meet its financial targets, deliver its service going forward was something that was on our radar and agenda and I think it is clear that we would could conduct that in an open and transparent way and have that done and put before Tynwald as well. 3310

What I would say to Hon. Members is that this is not just about budgeting; the state of our NHS, the state of the provision of services at the hospital and more broadly across Health and


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Social Care, and something that is troubling both here and in the United Kingdom, upon whom we base our model of service delivery. So these are deep-rooted problems and present many challenges. In dealing with this it is of course important that we budget correctly but it is also 3315

important that we get perhaps to the root of some of these problems and start to address them. But changing the patterns of behaviour that we see in the health service, and particularly on the staffing side where a huge amount of these costs are coming from, as more and more nurses and doctors appear to be favouring interim and contract work, rather than full-time employment, are challenges that are going to be immensely difficult to deal with and ones that 3320

we are going to have to think about carefully. I am absolutely delighted to hear from the Minister that she is considering ways in which we

can attract staff to the Island and keep them here permanently. And, of course, matters like that will form the heart of any plans that they bring to this Hon. Chamber.

So I do think that this is a serious matter. I think that it is one of perhaps half a dozen matters 3325

that present the key challenges for this Hon. Chamber going forward. Certainly the future of health, health services, service delivery against some of the issues that we have got in terms of limited budgets and the demographics are significant challenges.

I very much hope that we will get behind the Department as we go forward. Certainly from a Treasury perspective our door is open to listen and we will, when I present the Budget next 3330

month, explain to Members exactly what we are going to do to try and help the situation, certainly in the short-term. So for the interim, Mr President, I think the Hon. Health Minister needs to be given her opportunity to bring forward her changes and bring forward and put her mark and her Health Services Members’ mark on the future performance of the Department. I think it is eminently sensible that we hear from the Department in July about what plans it has 3335

to address some of these deep rooted problems, not just its financial problems but delivery problems as well going forward.

The President: The Hon. Member for Garff, Mrs Caine. 3340

Mrs Caine: Thank you, Mr President. I fully endorse Mr Speaker’s bid to ensure the Department of Health and Social Care becomes

more accountable in terms of managing its budget. The explanatory memorandum issued by the Department on this overspend did not provide

enough detail. It would seem to the public that we have a cavalier attitude to public finances to 3345

let this pass through with a simple nod of approval to the motion as written. It is accepted that we face increasing costs for health care so it is all the more essential that

those costs are brought under control, that factors such as agency staff that lead to increased costs are assessed and tackled with a comprehensive plan.

The overspend is more concerning because of the fact that, although it represents 5.5% of 3350

the health budget, it hides a more significant overspend by Noble’s Hospital, which is less severe because of underspends in other areas such as Children and Families social workers.

I appreciate the Minister has only recently taken charge and I welcome her commitment to tackle the issue, both outlined in her speech and in the briefing put on for Members.

However, little appears to have changed from a financial perspective since the overspend 3355

was applied for last year – budgeting did not seem to account for inflation rises or Brexit pricing changes – and was unsustainable in the wake of recommendations that were needed to be implemented quickly with the outcomes of the West Midlands review process. Perhaps the health budget never stood a chance, accepting that the budget process itself is clunky and certainly does not seem fit for purpose for the Health and Social Care Department. There is little 3360

significant measurable progress and the Department is losing the confidence of taxpayers. I sympathise greatly with staff where everyone seems to know what the problems are but no

one seems to be delivering sustainable, measurable solutions in a fast enough timeframe. Staff morale is understandably at an all-time low.


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I have had a lot of experience of our health care, particularly at Noble’s, having had a child 3365

who has been through paediatrics and is still under the care there and at Alder Hay and also for elderly relatives having care. I just want to say I think the health care as it is delivered is of a very high standard and that we can all have confidence in the individuals. I think it is the bigger picture that we all want to see addressed.

We know the NHS in the UK is suffering similar problems but there are cumulative issues here 3370

that have gone on for years and that are not going to be fixable by cuts and a simple reconfiguration of money.

As Mr Speaker said, one definition of insanity is to keep doing the same thing and expect a different result. Funding the overspend in health year-on-year feels like sticking a band aid plaster on a badly broken limb and expecting it to heal itself. 3375

£11.1 million is a huge amount of money. £11 million would pay for a new primary school. It would re-build half the Douglas Promenade with the horse tramway. Never mind the horse trams; it would restore the railway line from Douglas to Peel. If the Department does not get control of its finances the impact will not only be felt in health but across all our public services and capital schemes. 3380

Developing proper funded community primary care, I feel, is going to take investment in primary care not just cuts to hospital secondary care services.

I welcome the Minister’s commitment to the solution and the five-year plan. Investment in rapid response admission prevention teams Island-wide with access to step-down beds, rehabilitation, social work and home care, it needs allied health professionals – pharmacists, 3385

nurse practitioners, dieticians, therapists – working within the GP practices to release the GPs to deal with more complex cases and prevent admissions.

Ramsey Cottage Hospital is a perfect example of the opportunity to develop local hubs for community health care. It has minor injuries, minor surgery, therapies, visiting consultant clinics, ward-based rehabilitation for step-down beds from Noble’s in preparation for discharge, what is 3390

known in the UK as intermediate care. Ramsey had a good review by the West Midlands team. Why not ask them to set up further hubs Island-wide, replicate the success? Why cannot the Department utilise buildings in other areas of the Island and use part of the Community Health Centre in Douglas as a central intermediate care centre.

Or potentially, do we need also a more significant culture change; should we acknowledge, 3395

very sadly and with great regret, that this business of health care is not effective as it stands, that it is not delivering good outcomes for a lot of people and its costs are out of control. We need a review of Noble’s to establish if that is a sustainable model for the Island and the population we have. Our hospital, no matter how great many of the clinicians and health care staff are, cannot be all things to all people for a population the size of this Island. Hard decisions 3400

may mean more use of Noble’s as a diagnosis centre and more referrals to centres of excellence in the adjacent islands.

There is also the question of catering, a seemingly minor distraction in the scheme of things. Centralising catering, as far as I can see, failed to bring about the promised savings and certainly in terms of school dinners has failed to improve quality. The sooner these are devolved back to 3405

schools the better. (Two Members: Hear, hear.) The whole issue would benefit from a high level review that this amendment calls for in

terms of its finance. I hope the Health and Social Care Minister will welcome it as a means to demonstrate how the DHSC plans to achieve cost savings, as well as detailing as how they will monitor the Department’s financial performance. 3410

Whatever the future direction of our health service, we need to see evidence of a culture shift, an acknowledgement of what is not working and what must be achieved. I will say again, I am very encouraged by the Minister’s undertaking to review the way of budgeting and the whole service of health service delivery.

The Programme for Government pledges to improve governance and accountability in how it 3415

delivers health care and address the long-term funding issues posed by an ageing population.


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Also to improve the way we communicate with the public about the way our health and care services are provided. This amendment would support that stated objective and I look forward to greater accountability and communication from the Department of Health and Social Care so that they do not need to come back for a financial bandage next year. 3420

Thank you, Mr President The President: Now, Hon. Members, I have five Members wishing to speak. I am sure we do

not wish to be repetitive, (A Member: Hear, hear.) looking at the vast amount of business that remains on the Order Paper. 3425

Mr Robertshaw. Mr Robertshaw: Thank you, Mr President. In response to your direction I will keep my comments short. But first of all, Mr President, can I welcome Keith back to the Court after his time away from 3430

us – we have missed his dulcet tones echoing around the building before the start of Court, (Laughter) (A Member: Hear, hear.) delightful to see you back, sir. (Two Members: Hear, hear.)

Had the Treasury Minister not seconded Mr Speaker’s amendment I would have done so. I think for me the key words in the change are not only to look at cost savings but also revenue increases and I think it is terribly important that we are honest about this. I was horrified last 3435

year when the medium-term forecast showed no increased costs at all for health, I thought that was ludicrous and actually in denial.

One of the reasons I asked the Question this morning of the Treasury Minister was that I hoped to see on the analysis that we are being genuine and honest about possible cost increases that will occur in health. However hard our Minister works to save money, there will be 3440

increases. All I think I should do here is refer to Mr Stevens, who is the head of, I think it is the UK NHS England and Wales. I make no apology for repeating his analogy, which was the bath: that however hard you work to stem the outflow through efficiency gains etc. and cost savings, the inflow is going to be ever greater. That was why I was encouraging the Minister of Policy and Reform to bring forward the analysis of the census because even if our population was dropping, 3445

the ratio of those moving into elderly life is significantly increasing and their demands go up. There is no doubt about that. The cost of drugs is going up, the availability of drugs is increasing, the number of treatments that are available is increasing.

And right of the core of what the Minister said about staff difficulties will not be solved overnight when right across Europe we have these shortages. The Minister is going to be fighting 3450

on all sorts of fronts and I think it was important that we make the point that she is honest about this so we can embrace these issues with the public as a whole as well as deal with them here.

So it is not just budgetary. Let’s be clear that, when we factor that in to our medium-term forecast and get a narrative on it, that then is honest in terms of the cost exposure that we have 3455

got and how we are going to deal with it. So I have no hesitation at all, Mr President, in supporting Mr Speaker’s amendment.

The President: The Hon. Member for Ramsey, Dr Allinson. 3460

Dr Allinson: Thank you, Mr President. I completely support the Minister for Health and Social Care trying to balance a budget at the

mercy of lots of external forces, including costs put out by multi-national drug companies which are beyond our control, whilst still trying to improve both the quality and responsiveness of the Manx health service. 3465

By definition, with fixed costs, the health care costs are predominantly due to staff and a large part of the overspend, we have learned, is due to agency staff. I think it is essential that the Department is supported trying to bring in a medical staffing unit or a clinical staffing unit back


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into the hospital, to deal with this very specialist area of hiring both medical staff in terms of doctors but also specialist nurses who are increasingly taking on a greater role. 3470

The reason why we need to balance the budget and stop overspend is not just in terms of financing. Constant debts thwart innovation. At the moment we know that business cases are actually being put on hold because the money is not there to sometimes provide specialist services on the Island by existing staff. And also this sort of overspend will prevent the move of specialist health services from Noble’s back into the community. 3475

So I completely support your efforts in trying to balance the books and prevent further overspend so we can actually grow the health service, rather than constantly be looking back at the books.

The President: The Hon. Member for Douglas North, Mr Ashford. 3480

Mr Ashford: Thank you, Mr President. I would like to begin by commending the Minister for the way that she has dealt with this

issue. She has been very open and honest, both in the speech she has made today and at the presentation that she gave to Hon. Members earlier this week. She has been very clear about 3485

the strategy that needs to be followed as to how we get out of this. For me, Mr President, the key thing is not just around costs and delivery and service

provision. It is actually also around retention, because one of the biggest reasons that there has been this overspend is due to having to fill vacancies of staff. Morale in the hospital, if you speak to some peers, some individuals that work up there, they say it is quite low at the moment. I 3490

know that the Minister and the Department are aware of that and looking at ways to change that but when you have low morale you also have low retention, and what we do not want is the situation escalating worse where you have more staff leave, therefore more vacancies to fill, and as has already been said in this Hon. Court today, quite expensive vacancies to fill at that.

I would also like to say I was delighted by the comments by the Hon. Member for Ayre and 3495

Michael, the Treasury Minister, and the fact that Treasury is recognising the situation and looking at what is going to be done in the short-term, and I look forward to the Budget next month. Looking at the figures, Mr President, at the moment in terms of the predicted net expenditure – £198 million this year, where the forecast figures for the next two years were £200 million and then £202 million – are they really realistic figures, considering what the 3500

overspends have been the last two years? If you take the last two financial years, the £11 million being sought now and the £9 million that was sought last year, that is £20 million in total so I think it throws up in the air whether or not what is being projected going forward is going to be accurate or whether it is just setting up for yet again the Minister in future years having to come back asking for more money. So I think it is important that we are realistic about this. 3505

I am going to support, most definitely, Mr Speaker’s amendment. I think it makes sense. I do not think it should be an open-ended resolution, especially when we are talking about this amount of money, and there does need to be oversight and something coming back. So I am fully supportive of that amendment.

I think in conclusion all I would say is that once again we need to be realistic about the costs 3510

to the health service. There is no simple fix. The UK is going through exactly the same issues and in fact in some ways they are actually even in a worse position than we are. So I think what we need to do is actually admit there are problems and actually try and find a way of delivering what our Island needs and actually making sure that that is delivered. And I have every confidence that the Minister will be able to look at that and drive that forward. 3515

The President: Hon. Member, Mr Moorhouse.


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Mr Moorhouse: Mr President, there are many reasons for the required additional funding. From the perspective of Government Catering Services, a lot is being done and a lot has been 3520

done. Three issues need to be considered when assessing this year’s funding requirement in this

area: the first is the targets that were set on operations. These were exceptionally challenging, given the requirements of the various operators and diverse delivery channels. Ways are being identified to solve this problem. 3525

The second links to the move towards the encouragement of healthy eating options. In the long term, the potential benefits of this move are huge. However, in the short term, the decision has been significant. For example, the decision to remove branded colas in secondary schools has reduced a potential profit of around £150,000 annually in one area alone.

Finally, a real desire to use Manx produce has an impact on the bottom line. However, in 3530

terms of protecting future through security for the Island, this is justifiable, but its importance is not seen when looking simply at the raw data. We are actively focusing on this area.

Thank you. The President: Hon. Member, Mr Baker. 3535

Mr Baker: Thank you, Mr President. Undoubtedly, the Department needs the extra funding for this year, and I fully support the

amendment to put the scrutiny in for July. It is encouraging to hear the specific improvement points identified by the Minister but my point is that we have got long-term unfavourable 3540

trends, which will drive the costs up. We need a continuous improvement mindset and we need to embed the cost saving in the culture of the organisation. It is not just a one-off fix.

But looking more widely, we must ensure we have a more joined-up approach and invest in preventative measures. We call it the ‘health service’ but really it is a ‘sick service’, and it kicks in when people are not well. But things like physical activity and healthy eating are actually the 3545

drivers of health. So we must not lose sight in our efforts to balance the books and the financial challenges that

we face on those sorts of issues, where the actual payback is not very clear, but we know that those are the right things to do so.

I just encourage the Health Minister to be reflecting of those sorts of activities that do 3550

actually provide long-term benefits. We need to be factoring them in to managing our health more widely.

The President: I call on the Minister to reply, Mrs Beecroft. 3555

The Minister: Thank you, Mr President. May I firstly address the amendment, before I go on to the various Members’ contributions. I am delighted that the Treasury Minister seconded it because it is one that I would have

liked to second myself – but obviously I cannot when I am moving the original motion! I think it goes actually hand in glove with what we were talking about before, of more openness and 3560

honesty and transparency and being held to account. It is going to be very difficult. I am not going to deny that. I think as several Members have

alluded to, we have got a lot of challenges, but I do not think there is any harm at all in us saying what we have done in the six months to July and where we are up to. Members have input, I hope then, and also in between, if any Members do have any suggestions that would help the 3565

Department, we are all ears. We are not precious about having the only ideas that there are. So if I may go through some of the comments now before we go to the vote, Mrs Caine said

that it seemed that nothing has changed from year to year. A lot of the plans that actually the previous Health and Social Care Minister made – he is now the Chief Minister – have been implemented, but we are only going to see the real benefit of them this year. So there is some of 3570


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that: they do take time to filter through unfortunately, in Health and Social Care, particularly things like recruitment and changes within the system. You cannot just do it overnight, unfortunately – I wish we could.

She mentioned staff morale: I could not agree more. This is an area where I think we really have to focus on. I know that it has been on our agendas for a couple of months now and there 3575

is a lot of discussion within the Department about how we can improve staff morale and show them that actually, we really do care about the people at the coalface. They are doing a wonderful job, yet they do not really get the recognition always that they deserve. Hopefully, we are coming up with some initiative that will make that clear to them.

She also said that the deficit was a cumulative position which had gone on for years, and she 3580

is actually right. I was passed an extract from the Tynwald Court of 23rd March 1943, and they were asking for a supplementary vote of about 5.7% of their budget – a sum not exceeding £130. (Laughter) So the figures have changed much; the percentages have changed little and the asking for more money has not really changed that much. That is something we really do have to sort out. 3585

I think the point that Mrs Caine made as well about properly funded community care, so that we can move people back into the community earlier from the hospital or keep them in the community for longer. It is where people want to be, apart from anything else it is better for them. It is better for our population. It is better for our finances. It allows us to balance our budget and allows us to do more things that we really want to do to improve things. I actually 3590

agree again, that Noble’s cannot be all things to all people. It has tried to be for a number of years, and it is not doing it. It really is not doing it. This is why we said in the Programme for Government that the Department will set out what we will be providing and what we will not; and we have to be very honest about it. If people say, ‘We are glad the Minister is being honest,’ but we should be being honest. We should be being honest with each other and we should be 3595

being honest with the public. The model does need to change. We need to look at all areas. If we have got the population

to support having a full-time consultant here, that is what we should have, obviously provided they are given the time to maintain their skills. We cannot have people becoming de-skilled because they come here and do not have enough of the speciality that they have trained in and 3600

qualified in and become expert in, and then find there is not enough of a turnover to keep those skills, to keep them competent. They get demoralised and they leave. So we have to address that and we are already looking at healthcare hubs, so that is something that is on the agenda. We are looking at so much, I do not know where to start. I think I would bore you all to tears with everything that we are doing! It is quite [Inaudible]. 3605

Mr Robertshaw is quite right: we need to look at revenue increasing and maybe different ways of raising money. We have to be imaginative, we have to think outside the box. Again, he is quite right: all the demands are going to be increasing. People are not going to say, ‘Oh no, we do not want as much. We do not want as good a service as we had last year’. Everybody always wants more, that is human nature. But there are some fundamental things where it is not going 3610

to be a choice of they ‘want’ more, it is they ‘need’ more. So we have to be prepared and we have to be ready for that as well.

If I just may go back to Dr Allinson, I missed a comment that he made about the clinical recruitment team. We have been discussing this with OHR, but the resources are tight and they are needed, but I do agree in principle we should have our own. We have to see what we can do 3615

about that, and if we can make it a sensible way of doing things financially as well. Again, more specialist nurses – I absolutely agree.

Mr Ashford touched, again, on the morale. I quite agree. Morale affects your budget as well, because people who have a low morale tend to take more time off work so you need more agency staff, more bank staff, to cover them. So apart from wanting to have engaged and happy 3620

people working in the Department, it is good for the budget as well, so again it is good for everybody.


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Mr Ashford, again, asked: is the budget realistic as it is currently structured, with its current way of doing things, with its current charges etc.? No, it is not, but that is the big challenge; we have to make it realistic. We have to find ways of saving money and we have to find ways of 3625

generating more income, without affecting the basic premise that the people get … I suppose it is going back to Bevan, isn’t it? It is free at the point of need. When you go to the Hospital you get a free service, when you go to the doctor you get a free service; and for people who are on low incomes, everything will remain free – people who are on fixed incomes. People need not worry when I talk about prescription charges. People who have not got the finances will not be 3630

charged, but people who have, we will be expecting, I hope, further contributions, because we want to make improvements as well. There is no simple fix, there really is not. It is going to be a multitude of different things.

I thank Mr Moorhouse for his contribution – particularly as it is his job to go over all the finances in real detail and for us to discuss them sensitively within the Department, so he is 3635

really going to have his work cut out. (A Member: Hear, hear.) (Laughter) Mr Baker mentioned preventative medicine, and I could not agree with him more. I have

been to see, several times, our Public Health Director and there are things that if we do not start tackling now – things like the obesity crisis, which again we are not unique, it is happening all over the world – and encouraging people to take better care and different care of themselves, 3640

we are storing up a problem. It probably will not affect particularly more in the next five years, but in the next 10 to 15 years it most certainly will. We cannot say, ‘Well, it is not going to affect us in this administration particularly, therefore we are not going to tackle it.’ We have to tackle these things. We have to be honest and say they need tackling so we are going to do it.

I hope that is sufficient for Members, but if anybody wants any more detail of where we are 3645

up to, what we are thinking of doing, the door is always open and I would love to see anybody – and for anybody particularly who has got any suggestions the door is wide open! (Laughter)

With that, Mr President, I beg to move. Thank you. The President: Hon. Members, the motion is set out at Item number 3, supplementary vote 3650

in the name of the Minister for Health and Social Care. To that, we have an amendment in the name of Mr Speaker. I put the amendment. Those in

favour, please say aye; against, no. The ayes have it. The ayes have it. I put the motion as amended. Those in favour say aye; against, no. The ayes have it. The ayes

have it. 3655

4. Rockmount and Peel Marina Plans – Motion carried

The Minister for Infrastructure to move:

That Tynwald notes the report [GD No 2016/0084] [MEMO] which details the costed plans for the replacement of the temporary storage facility at Rockmount and the setting out of the planned maintenance programme for Peel Marina for the next three years. [Pursuant to the Third Report of the Environmental and Infrastructure Policy Review

Committee for the Session 2015-16 [PP No 2016/0106]] The President: We turn to Item 4, Rockmount and Peel Marina Plans. I call on the Minister

for Infrastructure, Mr Harmer, to move. The Minister for Infrastructure (Mr Harmer): Thank you, Mr President.





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The Department of Infrastructure has given an undertaking to develop long-term solutions 3660

for the disposal or reuse of the sediments taken from Peel Marina. However, this will take some time given the need to evaluate possible locations, carry out appropriate Environmental Impact Assessments and comply with necessary planning requirements.

Currently, there are no purpose-built or appropriately licensed disposal sites that can accept contaminated dredged materials on the Isle of Man. Until a suitable land-based solution is 3665

available, further work is necessary to explore the possibility of disposing of relatively small amounts of silt at sea.

The Department is continuing to work closely with the Department of Environment, Food and Agriculture to consider the options in the very short term.

If action is not taken, the build-up of silt may force the closure of a number of vessel berths. 3670

Our marinas make an important contribution to the Manx economy and it is in everybody’s interests to ensure they remain high-quality facilities for local and visiting boat owners.

The Department is putting in place preparations to remove up to 7,000 tonnes of material from Peel Marina during 2017 whilst further analytical work is being undertaken to confirm whether or not disposal at sea is possible. It is clearly essential that great care is taken in 3675

deciding how to manage this situation. Consultants have been engaged to review existing reports and data in order to provide an

independent assessment of whether or not there are demonstrable links between the most recent disposal work and impacts on the marine environment. They will also research how similar dredged materials are dealt with in other jurisdictions. 3680

In response to the recommendation by the Environment and Infrastructure Policy Review Committee, the Report summarises the estimated costs and planned works from 2017 to 2019 for Peel Marina, and provides a commitment to pursue the development of an engineered licensed problematic waste site.

The Department is making positive progress on what is a challenging issue and I am grateful 3685

for the continued assistance of the Department of Environment, Food and Agriculture. I would ask Hon. Members to agree to note the Department’s Report. The President: Hon. Member, Mr Baker. 3690

Mr Baker: Mr President, I beg to second and reserve my remarks. The President: Hon. Member, Mr Ashford. Mr Ashford: Thank you, Mr President. 3695

I have just got two questions for the Minister, which hopefully will be quite brief. On page 4 of the Report, it states that an independent review of the data, in relation to

contamination, has been commissioned and that there is also further sampling, but it does not give any timescales as to when it is likely to be completed. So I was just wondering if the Minister knew what potentially the reporting timescales would be. 3700

In relation to page 7 of the Report, just to confirm that the £61,000 quoted there – the £51,000 for removal and the £10,000 for excavation and clearing – actually fully includes all the costs that are mentioned on page 6 in relation to restoring the site to a set standard and the approved remediation scheme.

3705

The President: Hon. Member of Council, Mr Henderson. Mr Henderson: Gura mie eu, Eaghtyrane. I am just wondering if the Minister could advise further with a little bit more clarity on the

conservation issues that are at stake here with regard to the sediment which we know contains 3710

high concentrates of heavy metals, cadmium and others in particular, and that excess levels of


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the said heavy metals have been found in shellfish off the Peel coast and to Niarbyl as well, and possibly to the point where they may not be safe for human consumption.

So we need to have some clear position statement on that. I realise this is a very difficult situation to try and resolve. On the one hand you have got the harbour silt up issue and on the 3715

other hand you have got the environmental issues that are as a result of basically the old mine works and excessive wash down from the river and finding itself in the sediment in the harbour. But we could do with some clarification or some further information sent from the biodiversity officers from within your Department, who have been monitoring the levels apparently, just to give us some idea exactly what it is we are dealing with here. 3720

Gura mie eu, Eaghtyrane. The President: I call on the Minister to reply. The Minister: Thank you, Members, and thank you for the contributions. 3725

Just on a couple of the questions, we hope to have some more results within a month on the impact, and the clearing up in £51,000 on page 6 includes the clean-up costs of £10,000, so that is the total cost that we anticipate.

In terms of monitoring and in terms of biodiversity, we are on a journey, we are continuing with the environment impact assessment, we are working very closely with DEFA on all of these 3730

environmental issues, and together in the Programme for Government it talks about the environment being very important and about monitoring those; and we will continue to do that and continue to report back. There are a number of streams of work, but this is a really key part and one that has to be dealt with very sensitively.

With that, I beg to move. 3735

The President: Hon. Members, I put the motion as set out at Item 4, Rock Mount and Peel

Marina Plans, in the name with the Minister for Infrastructure. Those in favour, please say aye; against, no. The ayes have it. The ayes have it.

5. Douglas Promenade Options Review – Combined vote under Standing Order 3.19(1) –

Amended motion carried

(Extract from the December 2016 Votes and Proceedings) Motion made – That Tynwald is asked to approve the following principles for the reconstruction of the

Douglas Promenades [GD No 2016/0083]: […] (ii) The twin tracks between Broadway and Summerhill are to be renewed in the current location; […] Recommendation (ii) – Court divided. Recommendation lost. Mr Harmer gave notice under Standing Order 3.19(1) of his intention to move this recommendation for a combined vote at the next sitting. […]

The President: We turn now to Item 5, Douglas Promenade Options Review. 3740



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Hon. Members will recall that this matter was debated at the December sitting and on a division of the Court, recommendation (ii) was lost – the two Branches being in disagreement. Mr Harmer gave notice under Standing Order 3.19(1) of his intention to move this recommendation for a combined vote at this particular sitting.

Hon. Members, I will call Mr Harmer to so move formally for a combined vote and there will 3745

be no debate, unless an amendment is moved. I call on Mr Harmer. The Minister for Infrastructure (Mr Harmer): Thank you, Mr President. I would like to move to a combined vote for item (ii) from last month’s sitting, that the twin

tracks between Broadway and Summerhill are renewed in the current location. 3750

Thank you, Mr President. The President: I need a seconder. Mr Baker. 3755

Mr Baker: Mr President, I beg to second and reserve my remarks. The President: I call Mr Robertshaw. Mr Robertshaw: Thank you, Mr President. 3760

I do not intend to repeat the detail of the amendment that I circulated to Hon. Members previously, other than to say that since a number of Members have said to me, ‘Well, are you going to be so prescriptive with regard to the seaside position?’ and as a consequence of the advice I have received from some Members, I have amended the amendment sufficient just to leave it more open, in the sense that the proposed amendment requires DoI to consider a single 3765

track from the Villa Marina through to the Sea Terminal. I will wear my heart on sleeve here completely. I absolutely believe that we should have the

track right the way through, but there was a consensus that the Court would wish to go with DoI on its proposals for a terminal from the Villa Marina area; and the underlying direction there was also to get on with the job and we respected that as well. But I do not think we should walk 3770

out of that door for tea, having said that we are closing the door effectively to the track extension.

I think the direction from the Court to DoI should be, ‘Get on with the things that you said you want to get on with. Put the terminus at the Villa Marina area. Get on with that work. Give yourself a bit more time to finalise an extension track from the Villa Marina to the Sea Terminal,’ 3775

because I passionately believe we should be future proofing. We had a fascinating and interesting presentation at lunchtime that talked about tourism,

and my background is self-evident – 35 years in tourism and my heart still lies there and I believe passionately that we can increase our work there. But if we get the deep-water berth and we do become one of the new players in the cruise ship business then we are going to have to have 3780

somewhere very convenient for the coaches to park as they move the passengers from the ship to somewhere convenient for them to be distributed.

I passionately believe that would inject new revenue to the steam train, the electric tram, the horse trams, the Manx Museum. Do not let us start closing this down now. Do not let us limit our ambitions. Let’s do what the DoI said, but say as a Court, ‘We still want that line extension 3785

from the Villa Marina to the Sea Terminal locked into our thinking and somehow devise a way to ensure it happens’. It is a simple story. I will leave it with the Court, Mr President, to make a decision. I move:

At the end of (ii), to insert the words: ‘and a new single tram track is to be laid on the roadway between the Sea Terminal and the War Memorial.’


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The President: Hon. Member, Mr Ashford. 3790

Mr Ashford: Thank you, Mr President. I am more than happy to second the amendment. I am not going to repeat all I said last

month. Members heard me very clearly. I do not want Members today to take the decision that I think would be a historic mistake. People look at the steam railway lines now and actually turn around and say, ‘If only these various lines still existed, what use we could make of them!’ I think 3795

people, if the DoI’s proposal goes through as planned, will look back in many years to come and think the same of what we did here today.

So I am more than happy to second the amendment. I think it is a sensible way forward. The President: Hon. Member, Mr Crookall. 3800

Mr Crookall: Thank you, Mr President. Yes, I am reasonably happy to agree with Mr Robertshaw on this, although when we go back

to last July, the idea of a single track one end to the other was what was voted on then and, while I am happy to let Tynwald have the opportunity to change their minds, we have had no 3805

new information, I think, that should make us change our minds. What I want to draw to Hon. Members’ attention is when Minister Gawne and his gang

decided to take on the tram commitment from Douglas Corporation we were told there would be a three-year period to assess the situation before agreeing to this. Now, make no bones about it, if we agree to this today we are committing to it; we will take on the horse trams and 3810

everything that goes with them. I would urge Members to maybe support Mr Robertshaw on this, but vote down the whole

motion today and ask DoI to go back and look at this, as was promised by Minister Gawne, as was supported by Council of Ministers and Tynwald in July, and get what we asked for in the first place. 3815

I do think it should go from one end to the other. I do believe – and when you look back at all the paraphernalia that DoI, DoT in the past, in 2006, 2008, 2010, 2015 … go back and say a single track to take the trams away from the cars, on the grounds of safety, in every one of those they have said that. We have had nothing new to make us change our minds. I would say support Mr Robertshaw today, but think seriously about what you are committing to today. 3820

Thank you, Mr President. The President: Hon. Member for Garff, Mrs Caine. Mrs Caine: Thank you, Mr President. 3825

I hesitate to rise today, although I am in support of the amendment from Mr Robertshaw and in support of the motion originally from the Hon. Minister.

This is turning into Groundhog Day, only it is ‘Horse Tram Day’, and it is every single time we come into this Hon. Court we seem to be going through the same arguments.

I passionately believe in the horse trams and the future, in terms of tourism for the Isle of 3830

Man. Again, the presentation we saw today shows what potential there is in the cruise market, so obviously if we could develop the cruise market in the future it makes perfect logical sense to extend a tram line as far as the Sea Terminal.

I do not favour it ending in the middle of the road and allowing people to drift across the carriageways, because I do not think it is particularly safe. That is why I really support the plan 3835

for a cultural quarter and a new hub in the centre of the Promenade, and I think the potential for that could revitalise the area and also be a huge draw for visitors.

But I just want them to get on with it and I think, apart from the huge groundswell of opinion in favour of supporting the retention of the horse trams, I get the sense that actually the public just want whatever the decision is going to be to be got on with. 3840


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So I would say support the amendment, because the Department promised to put a tram corridor in place for future extension; this merely says spend the money now, rather than later; have it there so it can be used potentially for cruise ship days or anniversary days; run your more viable commercial focussed operation between Strathallan and the Villa. But in terms of if this amendment does not get majority support, I would say to Members, please support the original 3845

motion so that the DoI has a clear indication of where they can go and they can just get on with it.

Thank you, Mr President. A Member: Hear, hear. 3850

The President: Mr Shimmins. Mr Shimmins: Thank you, Mr President. My understanding is that the motion agreed by the majority of the Court last month contains 3855

a proposal that tracks can be laid from Broadway to the Sea Terminal in future if paying passenger demand makes this a viable proposition. By that, I mean ‘passenger demand’, and as it stands I do not find the case for extending the horse trams compelling. I wish I did, but I do not. There are too many ifs, buts and maybes.

As such, I will be voting against the amendment motion today, but I would not be against 3860

laying track in the future. If we get a deep-water berth, fantastic, let’s revisit it. Then paying passenger demand might be evident, but regrettably, that is not the case at present.

The President: I call on Mr Harmer to reply. 3865

The Minister: Thank you, Mr President. I will not repeat the last month’s debate, except for one bit, to say that Douglas Promenade is

one of the biggest and important environments on the Isle of Man and it has an incredible competition of space. There are so many demands on it, from cycling to walking to cars – six million vehicle movements every year. 3870

All I would say, briefly, really to the amendment is I am not really sure it is needed, to be quite frank, because – and I thank all the contributions that have been made, and particularly I am thankful to Mr Shimmins, the Member for Middle – we talk about a tram corridor and even though there is some restriction that has been removed, we still have a single tram track; and one of the key things about a single tram track is it removes capacity, so if we did have a lot of 3875

cruise terminal passengers we would only be able to do a leisure trip once every so often. This is one of the key problems I have.

We do not even know, if we build the cruise terminal, where it would be. There are so many unknowns. That is why at this point at this juncture we have said ‘a tram corridor’. But, for goodness’ sake, we have just voted in the Douglas Promenade as part of the Programme for 3880

Government. I said it was ambitious. Let’s not fail at the first hurdle. Let’s move on, let’s make a commitment. Let’s make a commitment to our cultural heritage, which is part of the cultural centre. Let’s start. This would make clear and defined, real progress.

The Member for Ramsey, Mr Hooper, talked about, ‘The Programme for Government, is it ambitious?’ In one sense, yes. Today is a start. Today is really the first spade in the ground. Let’s 3885

move. Let’s move forward. For that, I beg to move. The President: Hon. Members, I put to the Court recommendation (ii), that the twin tracks

between Broadway and Summerhill are to be renewed in their current location. To that, there is 3890

an amendment in the name of Mr Robertshaw, to add the words: ‘and a new single tram track is to be laid on the roadway between the Sea Terminal and the War Memorial’.


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I put first the amendment by Mr Robertshaw and this will, under Standing Orders, be a combined vote. Those in favour, please say aye; against, no. The ayes have it.

A division was called for and electronic voting resulted as follows: In Tynwald – Ayes 17, Noes 14

FOR Dr Allinson Mr Ashford Miss Bettison Mrs Caine Mr Callister Mr Coleman Mr Corkish Mrs Corlett Mr Cretney Mr Crookall Ms Edge Mr Henderson Mr Malarkey Mr Perkins Mr Robertshaw Mr Speaker Mr Turner

AGAINST Mr Anderson Mr Baker Mrs Beecroft Mr Boot Mr Cannan Mr Cregeen Mr Harmer Mr Hooper Mr Moorhouse Mr Peake Mr Quayle Mr Shimmins Mr Skelly Mr Thomas

The President: There were 17 votes for and 14 against. The amendment therefore carries. 3895

I put recommendation (ii) as amended for a combined vote. Those in favour, please say aye; against, no. The ayes have it. The ayes have it.

Hon. Members, I now put, with recommendation (ii) as amended, the Report as a whole and this is for a vote in the normal way. Those in favour, please say aye; against, no.

A division was called for and electronic voting resulted as follows: In the Keys – Ayes 24, Noes 0

FOR Dr Allinson Mr Ashford Mr Baker Mrs Beecroft Miss Bettison Mr Boot Mrs Caine Mr Callister Mr Cannan Mrs Corlett Mr Cregeen Ms Edge Mr Harmer Mr Hooper Mr Malarkey Mr Moorhouse Mr Peake Mr Perkins Mr Quayle Mr Robertshaw Mr Shimmins Mr Skelly

AGAINST None


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Mr Speaker Mr Thomas

The Speaker: Mr President, in the Keys, 24 votes for, 0 against.


FOR Mr Anderson Mr Coleman Mr Corkish Mr Cretney Mr Henderson

AGAINST Mr Crookall Mr Turner

The President: In the Council, 5 votes for, 2 against. The motion therefore carries. 3900

6. Standing Orders Committee of Tynwald– Code of Conduct for Journalists –

First Report 2016-17 received and recommendation approved The Chairman of the Standing Orders Committee of Tynwald (Mr Speaker) to move:

That the First Report for the Session 2016-2017 – Code of Conduct for Journalists [PP No 2016/0169] be received and the following recommendation be approved: Recommendation That the following Code of Conduct be added to Annex 3 (Rules for Admission) of the Standing Orders of Tynwald Court: I. Code of Conduct for Journalists

1. Only accredited journalists and other media personnel may film, record, or broadcast within the precincts of Tynwald. 2. Accredited journalists and other media personnel may film, record, or broadcast sittings of Tynwald and its Branches only within their respective Chambers, unless they have specific permission to do otherwise. They should observe regulations about access to other areas. 3. Accredited journalists and other media personnel may film, record, or broadcast sittings of parliamentary Committees only with the permission of the Chair. Only those appearing in an official capacity and Committee members should be filmed. 4. Accredited journalists and other media personnel must not act as lobbyists, paid or unpaid, for any individual or organisation that might seek to influence the political process or benefit from inside knowledge of the political process. 5. Accredited journalists and other media personnel must conduct themselves appropriately within the precincts of Tynwald, taking care not to cause any disruption to proceedings. They are asked to observe appropriate standards of dress when attending sittings of Tynwald or its Branches. 6. Accredited journalists and other media personnel must treat parliamentary staff with courtesy and consideration. 7. At any stage, accredited journalists and other media personnel may be asked to withdraw from any part of the precincts.




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II. Accreditation 1. Tynwald welcomes all local, national, and international media. Applicants will be required to demonstrate that they operate in a regulated environment, adhering to the principles and standards set down by independent bodies such as the National Union of Journalists. Freelance journalists will be required to demonstrate that their work is likely to be used by an accredited news organisation; this will require the supporting signature of an Editor or equivalent. Applications should be made to the Clerk of Tynwald. Appeals against the decision of the Clerk of Tynwald should be made to the Tynwald Management Committee. 2. Accreditation will usually be given for a specified period.

III. Access Interviews with Members may be conducted throughout the precincts of Tynwald, in accordance with the rules listed below. Consideration must be given to other building users. There are also Interview Rooms provided for this purpose. Members’ Offices: Filming, recording, or broadcasting may only take place inside the constituency offices and interview rooms in the Members’ Area with the permission of the Members present. Filming, recording, or broadcasting in the communal areas of the Members’ Area is prohibited. Members’ Room: Filming, recording, or broadcasting in the Members’ Room is prohibited on sitting days. Public Areas: Filming, recording, or broadcasting is permissible in public areas, but the privacy of building users should be respected. Staff accommodation, including the Tynwald Library: Filming, recording, or broadcasting may take place in staff accommodation only with the permission of the Clerk of Tynwald. IV. Breaches of the Code Any breaches of the code of conduct may result in accreditation being withdrawn. V. Copyright Tynwald owns the copyright to any footage filmed within the precincts, with sharing permitted. Tynwald reserves the right to request copies, where available, of any footage filmed within the precincts.

The President: We turn to Item 6, Code of Conduct for Journalists. I call on the Chairman of

the Standing Orders Committee of Tynwald, Mr Speaker. The Chairman of the Standing Orders Committee of Tynwald (Mr Speaker): Mr President, 3905

the matter of a Code of Conduct for Journalists covering audio-visual filming was referred to us by the Tynwald Management Committee and the Standing Orders Committee of the House of Keys.

Audio-visual filming may only take place during sittings with the prior permission of the Presiding Officer of each Chamber. As happened in relation to filming today’s sitting, in more 3910

recent times, permission has invariably been given with the consent of the Chamber. The purpose of this motion is to encourage accredited professional journalists and other

media personnel to seek permission to film, record and broadcast sittings of Tynwald and its Branches in line with modern practice elsewhere and to define the basis on which this is to be done and the terms on which they have access to the precincts. 3915

The Code leaves the decision about permissions to film to each Chamber or Committee and sets a standard of conduct for journalists to conform to, which aims at ensuring that those who do not wish to be filmed retain the right to stop that happening, such as witnesses to a Committee. So, for example, filming would only take place in a Committee with the Chairman’s


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permission and only be of Committee members and witnesses. We have assumed that Chairmen 3920

will ensure that those who are to be filmed will consent to be so filmed. The Code sets out the accreditation process and the rules for conducting on-camera

interviews. Whilst it is taken for granted that most filming will happen freely within the Tynwald Chamber, it makes specific provision for filming in specific areas where privacy is a necessary aspect of Members’ work. So, for example, filming, recording or broadcasting may only take 3925

place inside the constituency offices and interview rooms in the Members’ Area with the permission of the Members present. Filming, recording or broadcasting in the communal areas of the Members’ Area is prohibited. Filming, recording or broadcasting in the Members’ Room is prohibited on sitting days. Filming, recording or broadcasting is permissible in public areas, but the privacy of building users should be respected. 3930

Any breaches of the Code of Conduct may result in accreditation being withdrawn. Tynwald will own the copyright to any footage filmed within the precincts, with sharing

permitted. Tynwald reserves the right to request copies, where available, of any footage filmed within the precincts. This is to ensure that no inappropriate use is made of footage, which should be for bona fide news only. 3935

We have good relations with the press and I hope that this Code will set the basis for more frequent audio-visual recording of the work of Tynwald and its Branches. In my discussion with media representatives, I know this is a welcomed next step, and I know that Members with a desire for greater transparency and accountability of our proceedings will also welcome this move. 3940

Mr President, I beg to move. The President: Mr Robertshaw. Mr Robertshaw: I beg to second, Mr President. 3945

The President: Hon. Member for Garff, Mrs Caine. Mrs Caine: Thank you, Mr President. I rise in support of the motion before us today. One might say I rise in support of the media 3950

and for the freedom of the press. As many will know, I am a former journalist myself and in the eyes of many, given the lack of

a comprehensive party system on the Isle of Man, the media provide the necessary scrutiny of both Government and parliament. When our media is criticised for being too critical by the Council of Ministers and too compliant by social commentators, then we can be confident that 3955

we have a good balance in our media coverage on the whole. The surprising thing about the motion before us today is that the matter has not previously

been considered; that the media has never been tied to a Code of Conduct in this building. Yet I hope there is no suggestion that any member of the media has failed to conduct him or herself appropriately. 3960

Perhaps Tynwald should have considered introducing a Code of Conduct back in 1864, instead of jailing newspaper editor James Brown for having the temerity to campaign for an elected House of Keys! (Several Members: Hear, hear.)

As young reporters, my contemporaries and I had more struggles with local authorities than with parliamentary protocol. On one occasion my erstwhile colleague, Richard Butt, now the 3965

editor of the local papers, was ejected from Douglas Borough Council for failing to wear a tie. The Council had no formal code of conduct that we were aware of and such drastic action came as a surprise. The Deputy Town Clerk, the late, much-missed Ken Radcliffe, was such a jolly, easy-going fellow outside of work but a stickler for upholding standards at the Town Hall.

I had my own run-ins with local authorities, once turning up to report on a sitting of Braddan 3970

Parish Commissioners, much to the surprise of the board, who were curiously nervous of the


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press and who decided to move the whole of the evening's business into private session. With today's technology I would have returned to the next month's sitting and filmed the clerk and commissioners who supported such secrecy, but in the early 1990s, video cameras were expensive items and smartphones, science fiction. 3975

In my early days of reporting on this Hon. Court I was not required to have a press pass. I was accompanied to my first sitting of the Legislative Council by the news editor, Alan Bell, and introduced to the Deputy Clerk of Tynwald, Arthur Bawden, after which time I was accepted as a representative of Isle of Man Newspapers. I was never advised that I was inappropriately attired, nor did I require any formal accreditation. Paper press passes were not used except on Tynwald 3980

Fair Day. I would like to think that national and local authority politicians on the Isle of Man have

moved with the times; that there is an acceptance that the media play an important role in the good government of this Island. Democracy, like justice, needs to be seen. Independent media reports provide the necessary additional scrutiny and make parliamentary business more 3985

accessible to the public. The freedom of the press to report what they wish and how they choose is an essential part of democracy. And we have been well served by the media over many years.

So why is a Code of Conduct necessary? It is no bad thing to formalise the protocols that have developed over many years. And it takes us into the 21st century by acknowledging we are in a 3990

media age. People expect access to debates, and the medium of choice is video. The motion before us today will empower our accredited media to film proceedings without the requirement to seek this Hon. Court's approval every single time. How can anyone who is a supporter of the democratic process object?

One curious aspect, to me, is the clause that states any video footage taken by accredited 3995

media shall remain in Tynwald's copyright. Obviously this retains some control over the recordings, although I would suggest any attempt to block broadcast of a public debate would be questionable and lead to unwelcome headlines.

It also has precedent: the generation of reporters before mine were expected to supply Hansard reports of debates as well as scribing articles for their newspapers. Perhaps this Code of 4000

Conduct will be modernised or tweaked in the future. For now the Code, as it is drafted, represents a significant step forward. I fully support and

welcome the motion. Thank you, Mr President. 4005

The President: I call on the mover, Mr Speaker, to reply. The Speaker: Thank you, Mr President, and I thank the Hon. Member for seconding, Mr

Robertshaw, and also Mrs Caine for her comments and her support as well. Yes, I suppose I share with her the surprise that it has taken so long in a media age to come 4010

up with this and formalise the process. I do very much associate myself with her comments that democracy, like justice, needs to be seen and is seen to be done.

I think the only query that was particularly raised was about the ownership of copyright and if we were to use that to block a debate. I think it would be quite right that that would be questioned and challenged. That is not the purpose of it at all. It is perhaps to consider two 4015

things. Firstly, if there was some rather egregious use of the footage taken and spliced in such a way as to try to make a mockery of Tynwald. We are perfectly capable of doing that on our own, aren’t we! But doing it in such a way for that purpose and then putting it up on a site such as YouTube, it would then allow us the right to go along and say, ‘Can you please take that down. That is inappropriate,’ without any means for wanting to try to block legitimate debate in this. 4020

I think the other one is to allow pooling of resources as well. So if there was a debate in here where maybe six or seven different media outlets might want to cover something significant, like the Programme for Government debate or the Budget, or something of major import, then


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rather than having a huge amount of cameras, by owning the copyright we can insist that the footage is shared and therefore it is just a practical and pragmatic solution to a logistical 4025

problem. As there has not been a huge amount of debate, Mr President, I take the silence as support –

maybe dangerous – but I hope that Hon. Members will look forward with me to this next step in the openness, transparency and improving the accessibility to the public of our proceedings, sir.

I beg to move. 4030

The President: Hon. Members, I put to the Court the motion at Item 6, Code of Conduct for

Journalists. Those in favour, please say aye; against, no. The ayes have it. The ayes have it. Hon. Members, I think that would be an appropriate time to take a tea break. We shall

resume at 25 minutes to 6 – 5.35 p.m. 4035

The Court adjourned at 5.09 p.m.

and resumed its sitting at 5.35 p.m.

7. Appointments Commission – Mrs Helen Booth reappointed


That in accordance with section 1(2) of the Tribunals Act 2006, Tynwald approves the reappointment, by the Council of Ministers, of Mrs Helen Booth to the Appointments Commission for a term ending 1st January 2022. The President: Hon. Members, we will make a start again. We turn to Item 7 – Public

Appointment. The Chief Minister to move. The Chief Minister (Mr Quayle): Thank you, Mr President. The Council of Ministers is pleased to nominate Mrs Helen Booth for reappointment as a 4040

member of the Appointments Commission for a term of five years. The Tribunals Act provides for one member of the Appointments Commission to retire by

rotation each year on 1st January. This basis for appointment allows the Commission to maintain continuity of expertise in its membership and facilitates the uninterrupted exercise of its functions. 4045

Mrs Booth has an in-depth knowledge and understanding of the work of the Commission, having served five years as a member. The reappointment of Mrs Booth at this time will greatly assist the Commission. It is proposed that Mrs Booth will serve with the existing members of the Appointments Commission, Mr Alan Teare, Major Wilson and Dr Jacqueline Yates.

Mr President, I beg to move. 4050

The President: I call on Mr Thomas. Mr Thomas: I beg to second. 4055

The President: Hon. Members, I put the motion as set out at Item 7 in the name of the Chief Minister. Those in favour, please say aye; against, no. The ayes have it. The ayes have it.


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8. Office of Fair Trading – Ms Caroline Convery and Mrs Kate Lord-Brennan appointed

The Chief Minister to move :

That, in accordance with section 3(2) of the Board of Consumer Affairs Act 1981, Tynwald approves the appointment, by the Council of Ministers, of Ms Caroline Convery and Mrs Kate Lord-Brennan to the board of the Isle of Man Office of Fair Trading for a term of five years.

The President: Item 8, Public Appointment, Isle of Man Office of Fair Trading. Again, I call the

Chief Minister. 4060

The Chief Minister (Mr Quayle): Thank you, Mr President. The Council of Ministers is pleased to nominate Caroline Convery and Kate Lord-Brennan for

appointment as lay members to the board of the Isle of Man Office of Fair Trading for a term of five years.

Caroline Convery has served five years as a member of the board and has a clear 4065

understanding of the principles required for the public appointment. Ms Convery has substantial knowledge of the work of the board.

Kate Lord-Brennan was outstanding in providing the skills and experience required by the OFT.

It is proposed that Caroline Convery and Kate Lord-Brennan will serve with the existing 4070

members of the board – Mr Martyn Perkins MHK, Chair of the Board; Mr Geoff Corkish MBE MLC, Vice-Chair; and Jacqueline Bridson.

Hon. Members, Mrs Vivienne Davies, the outgoing member, has not sought reappointment, and I, on behalf of the Council of Ministers, would like to thank her for her significant and valuable contribution to the work of the board. (Mr Corkish: Hear, hear.) 4075

Mr President, I beg to move. The President: Mr Thomas. Mr Thomas: Thank you, Mr President. I beg to second. 4080

The President: I put the motion at Item 8. Those in favour, please say aye; against, no. The

ayes have it. The ayes have it.

9.-10. Education Act 2001 – Student Attendance (Fixed Penalty) Order 2017 approved –

Student Attendance (Fixed Penalty Notice) Regulations 2017 approved The Minister for Education and Children to move:

9. That Tynwald approves the Student Attendance (Fixed Penalty) Order 2017 [SD No 2016/0369] [MEMO]. 10. That Tynwald approves the Student Attendance (Fixed Penalty Notice) Regulations 2017 [SD No 2016/0370] [MEMO].

The President: Item 9. Minister for Education and Children. 4085






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The Minister for Education and Children (Mr Cregeen): Thank you, Mr President – if I can take Items 9 and 10 together, with your permission.

The President: If the Court agrees, we will debate Items 9 and 10 together and vote

separately. (Members: Agreed.) 4090

Mr Cregeen. The Minister: Thank you, Mr President. The Education Act 2001 says that it is a duty of the Department of Education and Children to

promote the education of young people. An aspect of this is ensuring that they attend school or 4095

have the appropriate education elsewhere. As research shows, that attendance is an important factor in student achievement. It is the parents’ responsibility to ensure their children attend if school is their chosen option. The aim of these revisions is to highlight the importance the Department therefore places on attendance.

The Student Attendance (Fixed Penalty) Order 2017 seeks to increase the amount of the fixed 4100

penalty from £50 to £100. The issuing of fines is part of the process that is undertaken by the Department to secure the attendance of pupils at school. Once the attendance falls below a threshold, then the Education Liaison Officers will get involved with families to try and support them in increasing their attendance levels. The next step, if attendance continues to decline, is to issue a fine. The Department also has the option of considering prosecution should other 4105

interventions have not been successful for persistent non-attendance. The original fine of £50 has in many cases not been seen as significant enough for parents to take action to ensure their children attend school. It is hoped that by doubling the fine it will be punitive enough to make the parents fulfil their responsibilities. If Tynwald agrees to increase them, then the fixed penalty notice will be updated to reflect this change. 4110

Mr President, this is not about fining people for taking their children off on a holiday. This is about persistent missed attendance at schools. The answers given earlier in this sitting were that 191,400 sessions were authorised for students not to attend and 24,175 were unauthorised. So this is not a matter of making people miss holidays, and I think the moving of the school holidays for TT fortnight will give some of those parents the opportunity to take a cheaper holiday at that 4115

time of year. I beg to move. The President: Mr Hooper. 4120

Mr Hooper: Thank you, Mr President. I beg to second and reserve my remarks. The President: Mr Ashford. Mr Ashford: Thank you, Mr President. 4125

To be perfectly honest, I do not quite see where this is coming from, the £50 to £100 increase. I see what the Minister is saying about the £50 not being felt to be enough of a deterrent for parents, and he mentioned the 24,175 unauthorised sessions, but we also saw from the information that was released this morning in the Written Question that the number issued in the last year was 11. So, to be perfectly honest, it is obviously a penalty of last resort 4130

anyway, but is there any actual proof that, once these fines are issued, even if you went to £100 the attendance is going to get any better? I think there are more underlying problems than that and I do not think the penalty, even if you go to £100, £200 or whatever, is going to resolve those underlying problems, personally.

I would also question how enforceable these fines actually are, because there is no definition 4135

within section 29A of the Education Act 2001 as to what actually constitutes regular attendance and what does not. Many Hon. Members will be aware of court cases that have taken place in


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the UK, in particular John Platt from the Isle of Wight – who actually won his case against the Isle of Wight over school time holidays when they were looking to impose fines – actually going as far as the High Court, where the High Court upheld his version. One of the main things around 4140

that argument was what is the definition of regular attendance. So I am not quite sure, personally, what actually this is meant to achieve by just simply doubling the fine, because the Department is not issuing a huge amount of fines anyway.

Hopefully the Minister can explain more of the logic, because at the moment, personally, I am minded to vote against. 4145

The President: Hon. Member of Council, Mr Turner. Mr Turner: Thank you, Mr President. Mr Ashford has covered one of the points I was going to make. I would like to know what the 4150

appeal procedure is for the fixed penalty notice. One of the Orders before us lays out the form which the notice must take. It includes, obviously, the details of who it is to, the name of the child and the name of the school, who is signing it and then a payment counterfoil. There are no instructions there, or there do not appear to be any instructions, nor in the main Act, that I could find anyway, if the parent receiving this notice wishes to appeal it. 4155

So could the Minister please inform the Court about what the process is, because it is very important that we do not have a situation where they are told they can always take it to court, because we know, of course, that what that means is you are completely outpricing justice, because to take action to the High Bailiff, or whatever, is a huge risk for people who may be beyond their means in the first place. It is important that there should be a proper appeal 4160

procedure for this. Like the Member who spoke before when he said about the definition of ‘regular’, it is a little

bit grey in the main Act. I have read it a couple of times and it could be that ‘regular’ means not appearing on one particular day, which is quite bizarre. In informal conversations I have had with the Minister they talk about 80 per cent or 80-something per cent. Where is this actually written 4165

down so that people understand exactly what the rules are, what the boundaries are? But for me, I would like to know the appeal procedure, because with any fixed penalty

system there should be an appropriate appeal procedure, or at least a request to have a hearing to challenge the ticket that has been issued.

4170

The President: Mr Callister, Hon. Member. Mr Callister: Thank you, Mr President. Like the two previous speakers, I cannot support these increases at this time. I do not believe

the Minister has put a satisfactory case together in order to warrant an increase. As Mr Ashford 4175

said, the Hon. Member for Douglas North, there have only been 11 fines issued in 2015-16. At this present moment in time I do not believe there is a requirement to increase it from £50 to £100. Maybe if the Minister could explain what is actually trying to be achieved here, because I still believe that if we increase the fine then it is not getting to the root of the problem.

I am not going to repeat what the two previous speakers said, but at the moment I will be 4180

voting against it. The President: Hon. Member, Mr Moorhouse. Mr Moorhouse: Thank you, Mr President. 4185

In the past when action has been taken, how effective has it been? The President: I call on the Minister to reply.


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The Minister: Thank you, Mr President. 4190

When you are looking at the number of people who are missing school, the number of missed attendances at school, whether it is authorised or unauthorised, and you are looking at in the region of 200,000 sessions, a session is identified as half a day so you are looking at 100,000 days a year of missed school. The Department’s policy has been taking action after a student falls below 80% attendance, so that virtually equates to … that a child could miss school 4195

one day a week all year. This is about trying to encourage people to go back to school. We are left with an Education Act which really needs updating. It was missed out by the last

administration; it has been put in the Programme for Government and we are working to try and introduce a new Education Act within the next year to 18 months. The Hon. Member of Council and the Hon. Member for Douglas North, Mr Ashford, were saying about the appeals procedure. 4200

Unfortunately, in the 2001 Act there was nothing put in for an appeal, so we are working with legislation which is in serious need of being updated.

The information that was actually given out this morning in Written Answers said that I think it was 11 fines were issued and they were all paid, so the action was they paid them and we have actually had the Educational Liaison Officers going out and talking to the parents regarding 4205

their children’s attendance. I would hope that all Members of this Hon. Court will assist us in trying to bring this new Education Act through as quickly as possible so that we can address many of these issues, or unfortunately we are dealing with an Act which is outdated and could do with being reformed. We are trying to work within this to encourage the parents to get their children to attend school. We do not want to be in a situation where our children are leaving 4210

school with no qualifications, struggling to get jobs. I understand the Member for Onchan, Mr Callister, when he says that he does not want to support this because he does not think it is going to help. We are using the tools that are in our armoury at the moment. It is the best thing that we can do because we need to update our legislation.

I would ask Members to support this. It is an interim until we can actually bring new 4215

legislation forward. We will be talking to Members and, as I stated earlier, to the public regarding the new Education Act. So I would ask Members to give us this assistance now. We will be looking at other areas of policy. Currently, do I think allowing children to miss 20% of their school attendance is right? No, I do not. I think we should be doing our utmost to ensure that our children are getting a decent education. 4220

Therefore, Mr President, I beg to move. The President: Hon. Members, I put to the Court Item 9, the Student Attendance (Fixed

Penalty) Order. Those in favour, please say aye; against, no. The ayes have it.


FOR Dr Allinson Mr Ashford Mr Baker Mrs Beecroft Miss Bettison Mr Boot Mrs Caine Mr Cannan Mrs Corlett Mr Cregeen Mr Harmer Mr Hooper Mr Malarkey

AGAINST Mr Callister Ms Edge Mr Peake Mr Shimmins


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Mr Moorhouse Mr Perkins Mr Quayle Mr Skelly Mr Speaker Mr Thomas

The Speaker: Mr President, in the Keys, 19 votes for, 4 votes against. 4225


FOR Mr Anderson Mr Coleman Mr Corkish Mr Cretney Mr Crookall Mr Henderson

AGAINST Mr Turner

The President: And in the Council, 6 for and 1 against. The motion therefore carries. I put Item 10, the Student Attendance (Fixed Penalty Notice) Regulations. Those in favour,

please say aye; against, no. The ayes have it. The ayes have it.

11. Animal Health Act 1996 – Trade in Animal and Related Products Order 2016 approved

The Minister for Environment, Food and Agriculture to move:

That the Trade in Animal and Related Products Order 2016 [SD No 2016/0358] [MEMO] be approved. The President: Item 11, Animal Health Act. I call the Minister for Environment, Food and

Agriculture to move. 4230

The Minister for Environment, Food and Agriculture (Mr Boot): Thank you, Mr President. This Order updates existing legislation relating to the system of trade in animals and animal

products. This update effectively means that the Island meets its obligations in order to facilitate trade with the EU and third countries. Previous legislation was made in 2001 and established 4235

controls on the imports and exports of both animals and animal products to a limited extent. This Order reflects major changes in EU decisions and regulation, in particular in regard to food law and hygiene of animals for human consumption.

On considering the changes made, it became apparent that the legislation governing control on products of animal origin – which includes everything from dairy items to hides and skins etc. 4240

– did not differentiate between lawful trade and items that had been illegally imported into the EU, and that updating was required. The extension of this Order to the Island ensures that the necessary controls are in place to both facilitate trade in animals and animal products and prevent the entry of substandard items.

During the drafting process in relation to this particular piece of legislation, it was identified 4245

that it was necessary to update provisions relating to the movement of pet animals in addition to legislation governing the control of rabies, which have some interrelation with trade in animals. These additional Orders are also before the Court today for consideration.

I therefore beg to move the motion standing in my name.




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The President: Hon. Member, Mr Baker. 4250

Mr Baker: Thank you, Mr President. I beg to second and reserve my remarks. The President: I put before the Court the motion set out at Item 11. Those in favour, please

say aye; against, no. The ayes have it. The ayes have it. 4255

12. Animal Health Act 1996 – Non-Commercial Movement of Pet Animals Order 2016 approved


That the Non-Commercial Movement of Pet Animals Order 2016 [SD No 2016/0359] [MEMO] be approved. The President: Item 12, Animal Health Act. Again, I call Mr Boot, Minister for Environment,

Food and Agriculture. The Minister for Environment, Food and Agriculture (Mr Boot): Thank you again,

Mr President. 4260

This Order makes provision for the administration and enforcement of import requirements for pet animals entering the Island from both within and outside the European Union and ensures that our regime in respect of the movement of pet animals is fully up to date and consistent with EU obligations, and therefore fit for purpose.

The Order includes requirements for preventative health measures in relation to certain 4265

movements of pets in order to protect against the risk of the introduction of rabies, tape worm and avian influenza. The Order implements updated provisions of the European Union Pet Travel Scheme, which is commonly known as the Pet Passport Scheme, and the implementation ensures consistency in treatment of pet animals. The main objective of the scheme has always been to make it easier and cheaper to travel with dogs, cats and birds, and to protect human 4270

and animal health from rabies, tape worm and other diseases that could enter the Island via pet movements. The scheme is recognised as having been successful in preventing the spread of rabies, and in addition it is recognised that the incidence of rabies has decreased across the European Union with the introduction of the rabies vaccine, which has become much more effective. 4275

I can confirm that these rules do not apply to pet movements between the Island and Great Britain, as that is considered within the Common Travel Area. This particular scheme focuses on pet animal movements to and from the EU and third countries outside of the EU. The commercial movement of pet animals to and from the Island is dealt with under separate provisions and is consistent with the Balai Directive imposed on such movements. 4280

Additional provisions exist in relation to rabies control legislation pertaining to that issue. That is also before Tynwald today.

I therefore beg to move the motion standing in my name. The President: Mr Baker. 4285

Mr Baker: Thank you, Mr President. I beg to second. The President: I put before the Court Item 12. Those in favour, please say aye; against, no.

The ayes have it. The ayes have it. 4290




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13. Animal Health Act 1996 – Rabies (Importation of Dogs, Cats and Other Mammals) Order 2016 approved


That the Rabies (Importation of Dogs, Cats and Other Mammals) Order 2016 [SD No 2016/0360] [MEMO] be approved.

The President: Item 13, Animal Health Act. Again, Minister for Environment, Food and

Agriculture, Mr Boot. The Minister for Environment, Food and Agriculture (Mr Boot): Thank you, Mr President. This Order is the final part of the jigsaw before us today relating to the movement of animals 4295

between the Island, the European Union and third countries. The Order updates existing provisions relating to the prevention of the introduction of rabies

into the Island and prohibits or controls the landing of any animal belonging to the order of the mammals listed in the schedule of the Order.

Powers exist for destroying any animal illegally introduced into the Island which is rabies 4300

susceptible or has come into contact with an animal with rabies. Provision is also made in respect of an animal landed in the Island in an emergency situation,

with stringent controls imposed in relation to movement, detention and isolation. I would hope that Members agree that it is important for the Island to have these controls in

place to ensure the Island continues to remain rabies free. 4305

I therefore beg to move the motion standing in my name. The President: Mr Baker. Mr Baker: Thank you, Mr President. I beg to second. 4310

The President: I put before the Court Item 13. Those in favour, please say aye; against, no.

The ayes have it. The ayes have it.

14. Consumer Protection Act 1991 – Consumer Protection (Cancellation of Relevant Contracts) Regulations 2016 approved

The Chairman of the Isle of Man Office of Fair Trading (Mr Perkins) to move:

That the Consumer Protection (Cancellation of Relevant Contracts) Regulations 2016 [SD No 2016/0345] [MEMO] be approved. The President: Item 14, Consumer Protection Act. I call on the Chairman of the Isle of Man

Office of Fair Trading, Mr Perkins. 4315

The Chairman of the Office of Fair Trading (Mr Perkins): Thank you, Mr President. These Regulations stem from the recently introduced Consumer Protection (Amendment) Act

2016, which, amongst other things, amended part 7 of the Consumer Protection Act 1991. The effect of the amendments to part 7 are to ban a trader from entering into a relevant contract 4320

with a consumer as a result of cold calling via the doorstep, telephone or excursion-based selling, subject to specified exceptions.






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A ‘relevant contract’ means a contract between a consumer and the trader which is for the supply of goods or services to the consumer by a trader and which is made either during an unsolicited visit of that trader to the consumer’s home or place of work or the house of another 4325

individual, is made during an excursion organised by the trader away from the trader’s permanent or temporary business premises, or is made as a result of a telephone call by or on behalf of a trader to the consumer which the consumer neither initiated nor requested, or after an offer made by the consumer during a visit, excursion or telephone call.

Despite the fact that a trader commits an offence by entering into a relevant contract, that 4330

contract still exists. Section 47 of the 1991 Act specifies that a relevant contract is not enforceable against a consumer unless the trader has delivered to the consumer notice in writing in the prescribed form, indicating the right of the consumer to cancel the contract within the period of 14 days. This effectively gives the consumer enhanced cancellation rights when a relevant contract is made: 14 days in which to cancel the contract. 4335

The proposed Regulations prescribe the form of notice of the right of a consumer to cancel a relevant contract which the trader must give to the consumer. They also prescribed the form of notice of cancellation which the consumer may give to the trader if they wish to cancel the relevant contract.

These Regulations repeal the Consumer Protection Act (Cancellation of Contract) Regulations 4340

1992. Under the old regulations, the cancellation period was seven days. These Regulations increase it to 14 days. The intention to increase the number of days from seven to 14 was previously consulted on as part of introducing the Bill that became the Consumer Protection Act 2016.

If approved, the proposed Regulations will come into effect on 1st February 2017. 4345

Mr President, I beg to move. The President: Hon. Member of Council, Mr Corkish. Mr Corkish: I beg to second and reserve my remarks. 4350

The President: Hon. Member for Douglas North, Mr Ashford. Mr Ashford: Thank you, Mr President. I will be supporting this – and not just pressing the wrong button, as I did on Item 9! 4355

(Laughter) But could I ask the Chairman, Mr President, wouldn’t it make more sense longer term simply

to amend the primary legislation to say that if a contract has come about by the means of meeting criteria (a), (b), (c) or (d), then it is not actually a valid contract in the first place?

At the moment the onus is being put on the consumer rather than saying that the contract is 4360

not enforceable, and in many cases those consumers can be very vulnerable people who may not understand what the contract is still giving them. In fact, although it is a 14-day cancellation on the prescribed sheet, it could simply be enclosed with a pack by the contractor and therefore that would deem them to have provided the cancellation rights and started the 14-day period. So, longer term, would the Chairman undertake to discuss maybe whether or not the primary 4365

legislation needs to be looked at around this and whether it is simply better to just have that stating that if any of the criteria (a) to (d) have been met then the contract is not valid in the first place and is not enforceable?

The President: Hon. Member for Ramsey, Mr Hooper. 4370


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Mr Hooper: Thank you, Mr President. I would like to start by echoing the comments made by the Hon. Member for Douglas North –

he took the words right out of my mouth. Aside from that, I have only got a couple of very small points on this. 4375

The Regulations themselves state that the 14-day period is satisfied when the notice is posted back to the consumer. I would like the Chairman just to confirm whether or not proof of postage will be required by anybody who is trying to enforce cancellation of these rights.

The second point really is that the Regulations do not appear to provide for any form of electronic delivery of a cancellation notice. If you are talking about distant selling regulations, 4380

which this kind of covers as well, surely some kind of electronic … [Inaudible] e-mail the cancellation notice would make sense, and I would like to know if that is covered by the Regulations as well.

The final point is that the Chairman in his statement mentioned that the Regulations are what is increasing the time limit from seven to 14 days. However, the Act itself in section 47 4385

specifies 14 days as the cooling-off period, or the cancellation period, so could the Chairman also clarify whether or not this 14-day period … this protection is provided by the Act itself or by these Regulations.

The President: I call on the Chairman to reply. Mr Perkins. 4390

The Chairman: I thank the Hon. Members for their comments. This legislation was brought about chiefly because vulnerable people, namely pensioners,

were being door-stepped by unscrupulous traders. After a week it was too short, because generally speaking their relatives suddenly found out they had signed up to, for example, a 4395

£9,000 contract to have their windows replaced and the relatives then activated the fact that they could not enter into this contract and cancelled it. That is why we put it to 14 days.

Obviously, the primary legislation does need looking at, particularly in relation to the electronic method of sales these days, and I will certainly take that away to my officers. But as it stands at the moment, this is the best stopgap we can put in place. 4400

The President: Hon. Members, I put before the Court Item 14 in the name of the Office of

Fair Trading. Those in favour, please say aye; against, no. The ayes have it. The ayes have it.

15.-16. Custody Act 1995 – Custody (Amendment) Rules 2016 approved –

Custody Regulations 2016 approved The Minister for Home Affairs to move:

15. That the Custody (Amendment) Rules 2016 [SD No 2016/0371] [MEMO] be approved. 16. That the Custody Regulations 2016 [SD No 2016/0372] [MEMO] be approved. The President: Item 15, Custody Act. I call on the Minister for Home Affairs to move. 4405

Mr Malarkey. The Minister for Home Affairs (Mr Malarkey): Thank you, Mr President. With your consent, I propose to move Items 15 and 16 together. 4410

The President: If that is agreeable to the Court to be debated together and voted separately. Agreed?






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Members: Agreed. The Minister: These two measures give effect to amendments made by the Custody 4415

(Amendment) Act 2016, which received Royal Assent at the Tynwald sitting on 4th October 2016.

The first of the measures for the Custody (Amendment) Rules revises the Custody Rules 2015. These amendments are: to remove the redundant reference to a medical officer; to expand testing of prisoners to include psychoactive substances, tobacco and revise the associated 4420

disciplinary offences; to allow the governor to impose longer periods of cellular confinement as a consequence of breach of disciplines; to improve security at the Prison by revising the provision relating to prohibited articles; to enable the Independent Monitoring Board (IMB) and the Parole Committee to regulate that all procedures are subject to any guidelines or directions from my Department; to provide for the appointment of an independent adjudicator to 4425

undertake prison disciplinary functions and so remove requirements that are currently undertaken by the IMB; and to amend the Custody Rules 2015 to clarify the IMB role with regard to monitoring of prisoners.

In the second measure, the Custody Regulations 2016 clearly set out the IMB’s duties with regard to monitoring police custody suites and cells at the Isle of Man Courts of Justice. 4430

As a whole, these Rules and Regulations make a significant improvement to the governance, operation and management of the Prison and clarify the IMB’s role in monitoring other places where persons may be detained.

Mr President, I beg to move that the Custody (Amendment) Rules 2016 and the Custody Regulations 2016 be moved. 4435

The President: Hon. Member for Ramsey, Dr Allinson. Dr Allinson: Thank you, Mr President. I beg to second this motion that seeks to reinforce security in prisons whilst clarifying the role 4440

of the IMB. The President: I put before the Court the motion set out at Item 15. Those in favour, please

say aye; against, no. The ayes have it. The ayes have it. Item 16: those in favour, please say aye; against, no. The ayes have it. The ayes have it. 4445

17. Shot Guns, Air Weapons and Cross-bows Act 1994 – Shot Guns, Air Weapons and Cross-bows (Amendment) Regulations 2016 approved;

18. Firearms Act 1947 – Firearms (Amendment) Rules 2016 approved

The Minister for Home Affairs to move:

17. That the Shot Guns, Air Weapons and Cross-bows (Amendment) Regulations 2016 [SD No 2016/0379] [MEMO] be approved. 18. That the Firearms (Amendment) Rules 2016 [SD No 2016/0380] [MEMO] be approved.

The President: Item 17, Shot Guns, Air Weapons and Cross-bows Act. Minister for Home

Affairs to move. Mr Malarkey.






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The Minister for Home Affairs (Mr Malarkey): Thank you, Mr President. Again, Mr President, with your permission I would like to move Items 17 and 18 together as 4450

they are joined up – with the Court’s permission. The President: If the Court agrees. (Members: Agreed.) Thank you. The Minister: Thank you. 4455

These measures update the application forms used in connection with licences for firearms and regulated weapons in alignment with modern requirements to properly identify and vet applicants to ensure they are suitable to possess such licences and secure greater public assurance about safety in relation to guns.

These measures will also ensure persons who no longer wish to hold such a licence tell the 4460

Police when and how they have disposed of their firearms or regulated weapons previously held. This is intended to ensure that such items have been disposed of properly and not been given to unlicensed or unsuitable persons.

The Firearms Act 1947 and the Shot Guns, Air Weapons and Cross-bows Act 1994 require Tynwald approval for such forms before they are brought into operation. The latter Act also 4465

requires that consultation with representatives of the firearms community take place, and this has happened.

Mr President, I beg to move that the Shot Guns, Air Weapons and Cross-bows (Amendment) Regulations 2016 and the Firearms (Amendment) Rules 2016 be approved.

4470

The President: Hon. Member for Douglas East, Miss Bettison. Miss Bettison: Thank you, Mr President. I beg to second and reserve my remarks. The President: I put before the Court the motion as set out at Item 17. Those in favour, 4475

please say aye; against, no. The ayes have it. The ayes have it. Item 18: those in favour, please say aye; against, no. The ayes have it. The ayes have it.

19. Income Tax Act 1970 – Income Tax (Accounting Records) (Retention) Regulations 2016 approved

The Minister for the Treasury to move:

That the Income Tax (Accounting Records) (Retention) Regulations 2016 [SD No 2016/0343] [MEMO] be approved. The President: Item 19, Income Tax. Minister for the Treasury to move. Mr Cannan. The Minister for the Treasury (Mr Cannan): Mr President, the Isle of Man is a member of the 4480

OECD Global Forum on Transparency and Exchange of Information for Tax Purposes. The forum ensures the implementation of the international standards of transparency and exchange of information, the implementation being monitored by way of an in-depth peer review process.

The Island’s next peer review is just beginning and the Regulations being considered today will help with that review. The Regulations strengthen the Island’s Income Tax legislation 4485

regarding the making and keeping of accounting records. They will ensure that appropriate records are made and that they are retained for five years, which is the international standard. They will only apply to relevant entities and will not affect the majority of Isle of Man residents who are employed and who are not in business in their own right.




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The Regulations were the subject of a public consultation exercise in 2016, and, having 4490

reviewed the comments received, Treasury did not believe that any significant changes needed to be made.

Mr President, following its phase 1 and 2 Global Forum reviews in 2010, the Isle of Man was awarded the top compliant rating. The number of reviewed countries to be awarded this top rating is still relatively small and the importance of achieving a good review now cannot be 4495

underestimated. Therefore, I beg to move. The President: Mr Henderson. Mr Henderson: Gura mie eu, Eaghtyrane. I beg to second and reserve my remarks. 4500

The President: Hon. Member for Ramsey, Mr Hooper. Mr Hooper: Thank you, Mr President. Only one, but probably quite an unusual comment on this. It seems from my reading of the 4505

order that applicable persons are intended to be the directors, the controllers of these various entities, and the relevant entities are the entities themselves, and yet this order seems to place a reliance or a burden, a requirement rather, on the applicable people themselves. So, where you have a corporate entity that may have five or six directors, the way that the order is structured would appear to place a requirement on each one of those relevant people … would 4510

keep their own accounting records and would have a requirement to keep accounting records under this particular order. I just wanted to get some clarification on whether or not that is actually the case, or whether the intention is that the corporate entity itself would have to maintain those accounting records.

4515

The Speaker: The relevant persons would be jointly and separately liable. The President: Minister to reply. Mr Cannan. The Minister: Mr President, I think the matter is fairly clearly set out in section 4 of the order 4520

that we have before us, that the order in fact applies to those applicable persons specified. The Member has asked a technical question for which I will seek a technical response, but for

the purposes of the order today I think the answer is that it is fairly clear who is and who shall not be responsible for the application of the order, and those people are referred to as the ‘applicable person’ in the order itself. 4525

I hope that that will satisfy the Court. If it feels so minded, of course I will ensure that the answer I give the Hon. Member is circulated to other Hon. Members for their comfort, but I do not believe there to be any lack of clarity, or confusion, about who is or is not responsible under this order.

4530

The President: Hon. Members, I put before the Court the motion as set out at Item 19. Those in favour, please say aye; against, no. The ayes have it. The ayes have it.

20. Financial Services Act 2008 – Financial Services (Civil Penalties) (Amendment) Regulations 2016 approved



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That the Financial Services (Civil Penalties) (Amendment) Regulations 2016 [SD No 2016/0351] [MEMO] be approved. The President: Item 20, Financial Services Act. Again, I call on the Treasury Minister,

Mr Cannan. 4535

The Minister for the Treasury (Mr Cannan): Mr President, the Isle of Man Financial Services Authority is empowered by section 60 of the Financial Services Act 2008 to make civil penalties regulations. The Financial Services (Civil Penalties) (Amendment) Regulations 2016 amend certain details in the Financial Services (Civil Penalties) Regulations 2015. The latter, or 2015 Regulations, enable civil penalties to be imposed for breaches of specified rules in the Financial 4540

Services Rule Book as well as for more significant matters. This Rule Book is the main operational legislation for licence holders under the Financial

Services Act 2008 and it was recently updated, which led to a change in the rule numbers. The updated Rule Book is operational from this month and so the 2015 penalty regulations now need to be updated so as to reflect the relevant rule numbers. 4545

As well as amending the rule numbers in the 2015 penalties regulations, the Financial Services (Civil Penalties) (Amendment) Regulations 2016 also reflect the change of regulator’s name to the Isle of Man Financial Services Authority and clarify that penalties for rule breaches do not apply to licence holders that are not subject to the Rule Book.

The Authority carried out a public consultation on the draft Financial Services (Civil Penalties) 4550

(Amendment) Regulations 2016 during October and November 2016 but received no responses. I beg to move that the Financial Services (Civil Penalties) (Amendment) Regulations 2016 be

approved. The President: Mr Henderson. 4555

Mr Henderson: Gura mie eu, Eaghtyrane. I beg to second and reserve my remarks. The President: I put to the Court the motion at Item 20. Those in favour, please say aye;

against, no. The ayes have it. The ayes have it. 4560

21. Customs and Excise Act 1993 – Psychoactive Substances Act 2016 (Application) (Amendment) Order 2016 approved


That the Psychoactive Substances Act 2016 (Application) (Amendment) Order 2016 [SD No 2016/0377] [MEMO] be approved.

The President: Item 21, Custom and Excise Act. Again, the Minister for the Treasury to move. The Minister for the Treasury (Mr Cannan): Mr President, the purpose of this Order is to

amend section 6 of the Psychoactive Substances Act 2016 of Parliament as it has effect on the Isle of Man. The Act was applied in the Island by the Psychoactive Substances Act (Application) 4565

Order 2016 and came into force on 18th August 2016. This Order amends the schedule to modify section 6 of the Act as it applies to the Island.

Section 6 – aggravation of offence under section 5 – provides that a court must regard certain circumstances as aggravating factors when determining the offence under section 5 of the Act, supplying or offering to supply a psychoactive substance. As originally enacted, an aggravating 4570






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factor would have been that the offence took place on or in the vicinity of school premises at a time when the premises were in use by persons under the age of 18 and one hour before the start or one hour after the end of such use. The revised section 6 provides that the court must also treat as an aggravating factor an offence that takes place on or in the vicinity of a university, a college, other educational establishment or institution, or other premises in the Island to 4575

which section 31, arrangements for higher education, section 32, arrangements for continuing education, or section 33(1), provision of colleges, of the Education Act 2001 applies, and at a time when the premises are in use by persons under the age of 18 and one hour before the start or one hour after the end of such use.

I beg to move. 4580

The President: Mr Henderson. Mr Henderson: Gura mie eu, Eaghtyrane. I beg to second and reserve my remarks. 4585

The President: I put to the Court the motion as set out at Item 21. Those in favour, say aye; against, no. The ayes have it. The ayes have it.

22.-24. Social Security Act 2000 – Social Security Contributions and Benefits Act 1992

(Application) (Amendment) (No.5) Order 2016 approved; Social Security Administration Act 1992

(Application) (Amendment) (No.4) Order 2016 approved; Social Security Legislation (Benefits) (Application) (Amendment) (No.6) Order 2016 approved

A Member of the Treasury (Mr Henderson) to move:

22. That the Social Security Contributions and Benefits Act 1992 (Application) (Amendment) (No.5) Order 2016 [SD No 2016/0355] [MEMO] be approved. 23. That the Social Security Administration Act 1992 (Application) (Amendment) (No.4) Order 2016 [SD No 2016/0356] [MEMO] be approved. 24. That the Social Security Legislation (Benefits) (Application) (Amendment) (No.6) Order 2016 [SD No 2016/0357] [MEMO] be approved. The President: Item 22, Social Security Act. I call on the Member for the Treasury,

Mr Henderson, to move. 4590

A Member of the Treasury (Mr Henderson): Gura mie eu, Eaghtyrane. I would ask your permission and that of the Court if I could move Items 22, 23 and 24 on the

Order Paper together and have them voted on separately, as they are interlinked. The President: Is that agreed, Hon. Members? 4595

Members: Agreed. Mr Henderson: Gura mie eu, Eaghtyrane. These Orders amend Social Security legislation to provide for the abolition of the category C 4600

retirement pension and related benefits for older persons. They also make consequential amendments to Social Security legislation.








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I can confirm that no one in the Island is currently in receipt of these benefits, and because of the qualifying age rules that apply to them the chances of anyone newly qualifying for them are negligible. So these changes will not be of detriment to anyone and are essentially by way of 4605

housekeeping. Further information is provided in the memorandum which has been circulated to Hon.

Members. Eaghtyrane, I beg to move Items 22, 23 and 24. 4610

The President: Mr Cannan. Mr Cannan: I beg to second and reserve my remarks. The President: I put to the Court the motion as set out at Item 22. Those in favour, say aye; 4615

against, no. The ayes have it. The ayes have it. I put Item 23. Those in favour, please say aye; against, no. The ayes have it. The ayes have it. Item 24: those in favour, please say aye; against, no. The ayes have it. The ayes have it.

25. Social Security Act 2000 – Social Security Act 2000 (Amendment) Order 2016 approved

A Member of the Treasury (Mr Henderson) to move: 4620

That the Social Security Act 2000 (Amendment) Order 2016 [SD No 2016/0364] [MEMO] be approved.

The President: Item 25. Mr Henderson. 4625

A Member of the Treasury (Mr Henderson): Gura mie eu, Eaghtyrane. In the UK, under provisions contained in part 5 of and schedule 16 to the Pensions Act 2014

of the United Kingdom Parliament, the current system of Social Security Bereavement Benefits will be replaced by a new Bereavement Support Payment from April 2017. This will apply to new claims only. Existing claimants will continue to receive Bereavement Benefits under the existing 4630

rules. Treasury has carefully considered whether it would be appropriate to adopt the UK’s new

Bereavement Support Payment in the Island and has determined that to be the case, subject to certain modifications.

As the first stage in the legislative process to adopt the Bereavement Support Payment in the 4635

Island, it is necessary to make an order under the Social Security Act 2000 of Tynwald. The Social Security Act 2000 is the conduit through which United Kingdom Social Security legislation is applied to the Island. The Order currently before this Hon. Court duly amends schedule 1 to the Social Security Act 2000 of Tynwald by adding to it part 5 of and schedule 16 to the Pensions Act 2014 of the UK Parliament. 4640

If this Order is approved, Treasury would then have the authority to make a further order applying to the Island the provisions of part 5 of and schedule 16 to the Pensions Act 2014, thus introducing Bereavement Support Payments into the Island.

Eaghtyrane, I must emphasise that the Order currently before this Hon. Court does not in itself amend Isle of Man Social Security legislation. However, if approved, Treasury intends to 4645

move a further order at a subsequent sitting of this Hon. Court which, if approved, will bring both parts of the UK Pensions Act 2014 which relate to the Bereavement Support Payment into domestic law.




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Further information is provided in the memorandum which has been circulated to Hon. Members and a further explanatory memorandum I think has also been sent out to Hon. 4650

Members under the Minister’s name. Eaghtyrane, with that I beg to move the Item numbered 25 on the Order Paper. The President: Mr Robertshaw. 4655

Mr Robertshaw: I beg to second, Mr President. The President: Mr Speaker. The Speaker: Thank you, Mr President. 4660

I just want to put a marker down. I have no problem with the motion that is before us here today, which is purely enabling in nature, but I just want to put a marker down for the forthcoming debate, which is about the one that this enables.

It was about the general rationalisation of the approach, which I support and it has a lot to recommend it, but the only thing that I am worried about – and I will probably raise it more 4665

substantially at the March sitting – is the short residential qualifying period that is associated with this. I think it is only six months’ worth of National Insurance payments before you are qualified for this benefit. I appreciate we are talking about bereavement benefits – it is not something that people manipulate to try and get – but I just think there is a principle here about qualifying National Insurance contribution periods for accessing benefits. It is something that we 4670

need to have quite a good look at in the round and it is something that I know the Hon. Member will no doubt be doing in due course, but it is just that the short qualifying period for access to benefits in general is something that gives me a bit of concern.

The President: Hon. Member, Dr Allinson. 4675

Dr Allinson: Thank you, Mr President. I completely support this motion and look forward to the further debate, because this is

tidying up quite a complicated system of benefits which even a rational person could find problems navigating through, never mind the bereaved. What this does is make it a lot clearer 4680

and a lot more sensible (A Member: Hear, hear.) in terms of doing that, and hopefully we can look at some of the other benefits that we currently offer and do the same thing to those.

The President: Mr Henderson to reply. 4685

Mr Henderson: Gura mie eu, Eaghtyrane. Taking the last speaker first, Dr Allinson, I thank him for his very supportive comments and

his sharp observation on the fact that it will, administratively, tidy this up, which is a minefield and complicated indeed for people trying to claim it. So that has got to be a very good plus point there and I am grateful for his support and pointing that out to Hon. Members. 4690

With regard to Vainstyr Loayreyder’s input, this is a National Insurance based benefit and indeed we have got to be careful with our reciprocity with the UK with regard to these benefits, which is why we are pitching it at the six-months level. Also, it is deemed that with the way the new benefit is being rearranged it is open to more applicants. It is more humane, if you like, and if offers more help to more people. That was one of the rationales to lower the NI qualifying 4695

period on it, to make it available and be able to help more people as and when. Also, with the movement of people between ourselves and neighbouring jurisdictions, of course, it is a similar kind of benefit and it makes the movement of staff in and out of the relevant countries that little bit easier to understand, and that was some of the rationale behind it as well. I am sure, by the sound of things, Eaghtyrane, we will be having a little bit more in-depth debate in March. 4700


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However, I have to say I have asked Mr Speaker if he would like to meet with me and Social Security officers to actually go through why he is so concerned about the six-months rule for this and all the plus points that are in the back of this particular benefit. That offer is there, and indeed I think he has had some written responses as well with further input and explanation. (The Speaker: Yes, I have.) So, hopefully, we might be batting on the same side by the time we 4705

get to March. With that, Eaghtyrane, I beg to move. The President: Hon. Members, I put before the Court the motion as set out at Item 25. Those

in favour, please say aye; against, no. The ayes have it. The ayes have it. 4710

26. Nursery place provision – Amended motion carried

The Hon. Member for Douglas North (Mr Ashford) to move:

That a committee of three Members be appointed to investigate the adequacy of nursery place provision, in particular for children under two years of age; and to report back with recommendations no later than May 2017. The President: Item 26, Nursery Place Provisions Committee. I call on the Hon. Member for

Douglas North, Mr Ashford, to move. 4715

Mr Ashford: Thank you, Mr President. I want to start by saying to Hon. Members that I have not tabled this motion lightly. Hon.

Members will find I am not normally someone who would seek to create yet another parliamentary committee unless I felt it was absolutely necessary and a matter of some urgency. 4720

During the election and since being elected in September, I have been contacted by numerous groups of parents, and in fact providers themselves, concerned about the direction of travel that under-twos nursery provision has taken. In fact, in just the last week since the publicity around this motion has been out, I have been contacted by a further dozen parents who in one way or another are being forced out of being economically active due to the lack of 4725

provision. I just want to briefly at this point, before going on to that provision, speak about the wording

of the motion and the remit of the committee. For me, the key words within my motion are the words ‘nursery place provision’. That is what the committee would be considering: the provision of places, not a wide-ranging remit looking at nursery provision in general. 4730

Turning now to that provision of places, if you compare the figures given by the DHSC in another place with the population of those age ranges, once a child gets over the age of two 50% of that age group can achieve a nursery place should it be so desired. For those in the under-twos age range, only 10% of that age group population can achieve a place. The irony with all this is that the age range with the lowest provision is the one where parents need it the 4735

most. Grandparents and other family members do help to assist parents with childcare, helping them get economically active and making sure that they can make a contribution to our economy, and the contribution those family members make should not be underestimated by this Hon. Court. But from the people I have spoken to, most family members who do assist are more willing to assist and step in to help with a child over two than one under that age. 4740

All this shows a huge disparity between the provision that is available to assist parents who want to return to the workplace and I think it is important that the reasons why that disparity


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exists are fully investigated and understood and it is examined what action, if any, can be taken to correct that disparity. This is what the committee I am proposing would be able to do.

I am sure I cannot be the only Hon. Member of this Hon. Court who has been contacted by 4745

parents concerned about this issue, but I just want to give Hon. Members some brief examples of problems being experienced. One couple that have contacted me have both had to take part-time work rather that full time, reducing their household income by over half due to the fact a place is not available. There are numerous couples where one parent has had to give up work completely in order to provide care as, despite trying, they cannot achieve a place. There is 4750

another couple where the mother has had to give up her full-time job and look for another job that is part time, despite previously having been in a senior professional role. There is also a couple who are considering scaling down their small business since they cannot get access to the childcare they need to allow both parents to continue to operate the business. All of this not only has an impact on these individuals, but also our economy. 4755

Government after government has recognised the benefit of parents being able to return to work and help benefit the wider economy. Even as far back as 28 years ago, on 17th October 1989 in this Hon. Court – in, ironically enough, considering our agenda today, a policy review debate – the then Chief Minister, Sir Miles Walker, stated:

there are probably ladies at home — and perhaps gentlemen at home as well — but ladies at home who would like to return to work …

And went on to say: 4760

there is a pool of labour there that is worthy of acknowledgement.

So, for nearly three decades there has been an acknowledgement by Government that those who wish to work should be assisted to be able to do so and a recognition of the benefits of them doing so. In fact, on page 6 of the Government’s plan that we have approved today, which Hon. Members supported, it clearly states that one of the aims that we have is that we have a diverse economy where people choose to work and invest – yet we have numerous situations 4765

where there are parents choosing to work and invest in the economy who cannot. They always say that actions speak louder than words, and this is what this committee, if

established, will seek to do: identify what actions can be taken to help parents get back into work and help drive our economy forward.

I want to take the opportunity to say this motion is not meant or intended as a criticism of 4770

the Department or the regulations that exist around the provision of childcare. In fact, I know that the Department now and in the past has tried very hard to work with providers, especially round the recent changes in regulations and standards. This motion, if anything, is here to help the Department with identifying needs and what can be done to preserve and grow the provision of places into the future. 4775

I am sure there will some Hon. Members who will be thinking ‘Why not simply refer this to the Social Affairs Policy Review Committee?’ (Laughter) – and there is most certainly Mr Thomas of that exact mind, as I now read the amendment that has just been circulated! Great minds think alike in the Cabinet Office, obviously, Mr President! In the normal situation, that would be the sensible approach – and in fact I would remind Hon. Members that I am actually a member 4780

of the Social Affairs Policy Review Committee, and so it would have been very easy for me to have done this myself, and it was indeed something I did consider before bringing forward this motion. However, the reason I decided against that course of action was that such a move would kick this issue into the long grass, (Interjection and laughter) whereas I believe it is an urgent and pressing issue that is affecting many people right now and needs to be tackled 4785

sooner rather than later. The Social Affairs Policy Review Committee already has several workstreams that are underway, including the investigations into Dependability, Children and Family Services and several other workstreams that have been identified since the new


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Committee first met. So a move to refer this to that Review Committee would achieve nothing more than delaying the issue and potentially distracting the Review Committee from other 4790

important items as well. This is a matter, Hon. Members, that is having an effect on people’s lives and their careers

now. It is a matter that deserves to be looked at to see what realistically can be achieved and what, if anything, can be done that is not already being done around the provision of places. It fits with government after government’s commitment that those who wish to return to work 4795

should be facilitated in doing so. The motion setting up this committee complements the Government plan that Hon. Members approved earlier in this sitting, the title of which I would remind Hon. Members is ‘Our Island: A special place to live and work’.

As I stated at the start, Mr President, I am not someone who would rush forward to set up a committee unless I believed that there is a direct benefit to having an issue investigated in that 4800

way. I once again want to emphasise this motion is no way a criticism of the Department, but I see

it as a way of helping the Department understand the issues the parents and providers are experiencing and us all working together to try and find a solution to these problems.

In conclusion, I hope that Hon. Members will support this motion today and not the 4805

amendment that has been circulated, and send a message out to those who have been impacted that this Hon. Court recognises the severity of the issues they face and is serious about trying to remove the barriers they face to taking an active part in our economy. Let’s send out that message loud and clear that this Hon. Court is willing to address issues such as this head on and is not willing to sit back and do nothing or kick issues into the long grass; that this is an Hon. 4810

Court that is willing to engage directly with the issues of social policy and is truly willing to try and help those who wish to return to work and make a contribution to our economy and facilitate them to be able to do so.

With that, Mr President, I wish to move the motion standing in my name. 4815

The President: Hon. Member for Onchan, Mr Callister. Mr Callister: Thank you, Mr President. More than happy to second this motion. The President: Hon. Member for Douglas Central, Mr Thomas. 4820

The Minister for Policy and Reform (Mr Thomas): Thank you very much, Mr President. I want to congratulate the hon. mover for having made an excellent presentation of some of

the issues, some of the priorities, some of the context in which this motion has been moved in good faith for the best of reasons. 4825

As the Hon. Member has said, the Government Department involved has a programme of work for pre-school education, for early years. Other Departments have complementary work involved in making things easier to increase the economically active population. What I would like to remind Hon. Members of is that, just this morning, we unanimously agreed a Programme for Government and it did not include this recommendation at this stage. 4830

The second point I wanted to state is that I wanted to remind people that the Social Affairs Policy Review Committee, of which the Hon. Member is a mover, (Mr Ashford: A member!) – an Hon. Member – has done some excellent work in the last three years on pre-school and that work has been profoundly important in changing the direction of pre-school in this Island and it actually sets the agenda for the work that the Government has taken up. 4835

The sad reality that we are all in is that Tynwald officers and investigators are not infinite in their capacity, Government officers are not infinite in their capacity, and we have to make choices. It is for the Social Affairs Policy Review Committee to decide its priority for work and for its timetable. That is exactly what Lord Lisvane reminded us of when he came over and he laid out in very broad terms that the Policy Review Committee could definitely review implemented 4840


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policies – and we have got an implemented policy here that can be reviewed – they can engage with whoever they want for whatever purpose, and they can lay out their own timetable and publish that timetable and so on.

Therefore, with that, I move the amendment that is standing in my name, which gives respect to this issue, gives respect to the mover and also puts the decision about the priority for 4845

this work in the Committee of which he is a Member: That the words ‘a committee of three members be appointed to investigate’ be left out and replaced with ‘the Social Affairs Policy Review Committee should investigate and report on’; and that all the words after ‘children under two years of age’ be left out. The President: Hon. Member for Douglas East, Mr Robertshaw. Mr Robertshaw: Thank you, Mr President. I have pleasure in seconding the amendment. As one from the committee that set up these 4850

Review Committees in the first place, I would say that this particular workstream is right in the crosshairs of it. For us today to veer away from that particular duty on the basis that somehow it would be kicking it into the long grass would be very detrimental indeed to the concept and importance of the Review Committee, so I firmly and strongly support and second this amendment. 4855

The President: Hon. Member, Mr Cregeen. The Minister for Education and Children (Mr Cregeen): Thank you, Mr President. Just assisting on this and supporting the amendment by my colleague, Mr Thomas, the 4860

current provisions ... and this is information supplied from the Department of Health and Social Care Registration and Inspection Unit. There are currently 1,539 child daycare places on the Island. One hundred and forty of those are specifically for under-twos. There are, in addition, 88 childminders who can provide care for a maximum of six children, three of which can be under five years. 4865

I do think this is the workload of the Social Policy; this is what they are set up for. The Hon. Member is saying that they have got a heavy workload – well, that is up to the Committee to actually decide what their workload is and how to prioritise it. It would, I think, be a retrograde step, especially on such an issue, if that actually went to a select committee rather than to the Social Policy Committee. 4870

The President: Hon. Member for Garff, Mrs Caine. Mrs Caine: Thank you, Mr President. I accept that there is an issue and I think Mr Ashford is correct to bring it before the Court. 4875

I have had very little feedback, but the one I have had has actually carried out a little bit of investigation already. This constituent, Sue, points out she spent almost 10 years living and working in Singapore and chose to return to the Island with her partner last year and they now have a 10-month-old son. She was looking to return to work in the not-too-distant future and recently embarked on what people laughingly told her would be the challenge of finding him a 4880

space in pre-school: a nursery that takes under-twos. To her ‘absolute dismay’, she says, ‘it appears there are none available.’ Then she said:

Having spoken a number of nurseries personally, the issue, it seems, is that without adequate financial support from Government the costs and staff ratios and high insurance levels required to run a baby unit within a nursery make doing so completely untenable. As a consequence, the few nurseries which are equipped to take children under two are absolutely full, with waiting lists into 2018 and beyond.


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So she is calling for some strong initiatives to help address this critical issue. I would say that, from the feedback Mr Ashford has had and I have had, we know there is an

issue. The problem that we have to deal with it, whether or not that needs a select committee 4885

even, I would say perhaps as a key aim of the Programme for Government that the Isle of Man is encouraging people back to work, it is encouraging people to return to the Isle of Man and have their families here and become part of our economically active population.

I think perhaps I would like to hear from the Department of Health and Social Care and whether there is any connection between what the Department can do in terms of the 4890

regulatory regime and what the Department of Education and Children can do in terms of the grant assistance support for people returning to work and paying for nursery places.

I know for myself, going back 10 years, having two children at nursery eight years ago – one under two, one over two – the combined cost of full-time nursery care was £1,500 a month, so it is a huge impact on families anyhow wanting to return to work. Perhaps the Departments – 4895

whether that is best through Social Affairs Policy Review Committee – could come up with a solution that says ‘This is how we are going to tackle it to encourage this very important group of people to get back to work.’

Thank you, Mr President. 4900

The President: I call on the mover to reply. Mr Ashford. Mr Ashford: Thank you, Mr President. Firstly, in relation to Mr Thomas’s points, the Hon. Member for Douglas Central, I am not

quite sure about the reference of saying it is not currently in the Programme for Government 4905

specifically. I am not quite sure where that reference comes from, because I hope we are not going to start saying if something is not in the Programme for Government at the moment we are not going to look at it.

I understand where he is coming from, to a certain extent. Yes, the Social Affairs Policy Review Committee has done some excellent work in this area. I do not dispute that for one 4910

second. In fact, I know it is something that the Chairman of the Review Committee has been passionate about in previous years.

The Hon. Member referred to the fact that obviously there is finite capacity between his officers and officers in Tynwald. Well, as far as I am concerned, Mr President, that is not an excuse at the moment because there are only two Select Committees, as far as I am aware, 4915

operating at the moment. When you look back over the years and the number of select committees that used to operate out of this Hon. Court, you would have thought the sky had fallen in if you take Mr Thomas’ comments in that regard. So I do not think that is necessarily an excuse.

He also refers to the Lisvane Report and the recommendations therein about review 4920

committees, Mr President. It is a very pertinent point, but I think in some ways he has missed what Lord Lisvane was actually saying, which is recommendation 18, where he actually mentions about everything going through the review committees and the way they are going to operate. What Lord Lisvane is proposing is to introduce significantly more time for the review committees and actually have Members that are purely on the review committees. It also ties in with other 4925

recommendations – 13, 14 and 11. As yet, we have not actually had the debate on Lisvane and none of that is current in place,

so while I fully support the Lisvane recommendations and I will be supporting them when they come forward, what I do not agree with is … We cannot say we will operate under that system now, because that is not the system we have currently got. We have to operate and move 4930

according to what system is there. I honestly do believe that if this goes to the Review Committee it will delay it.

In relation to Mr Robertshaw, he said it is right in the crosshairs of the Review Committee. Like I say, I did think long and hard about it before I brought this motion to this Hon. Court,


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because I am on that Review Committee, so it would have been very easy for me to actually 4935

have referred it myself, but I do think, because it is having a very pressing effect on people now, it is something that we should start looking at now.

I understand what Mr Robertshaw is saying about the concept and importance of the review committees. I do not think it is undermining it by coming forward with a motion like this at all. I think the review committees and their importance is central, and again it is central to the 4940

Lisvane Review, but that is not the system that we currently have in place. Maybe looking forward past April, when the Lisvane recommendations are actually decided upon and voted upon, then we will have the system that we can use.

Mr Cregeen mentioned about children and 140 places for the under-twos. Well, in relation to the 140 places for the under-twos, as I said in my speech, that equates to 10% of the population 4945

in that age group. So only 10% of that age group can actually find a place even if they wished to, whereas any children over the age of two – which is actually a higher population group – have a 50% chance of finding a place because 50% of that age group is catered for, and that is one of the fundamental problems. Yes, there are the 88 childminders, but I can assure Mr Cregeen now, from parents who have contacted me, the childminders themselves are fully booked up for 4950

the next few years. I have spoken to childminders I know who are actually taking bookings years in advance or have the same children as they are growing up, so that is not necessarily the answer.

I do not think it would be a retrograde step to put this to a select committee; I do not believe that at all. If I had felt that, then I would not have moved this motion in the first place. 4955

In relation to Mrs Caine and the challenges her constituent faced, they are very similar to the challenges that I have referred to in my speech: no places available.

Yes, there is an issue around costs and staff ratios and that does concern, to a certain extent, the providers. I know that several of the providers have actually used the money they make from the over-twos to try and subsidise the other half of their business, the under-twos, to keep 4960

the price down for the parents, but there are a lot of them now who are thinking, ‘Well, why should we? In fact, should we actually continue with provision of under-two places whatsoever?’ Waiting lists are well into 2018 and beyond for a lot of the nurseries in that area.

I think it is important that we have a specific select committee to look at this, Mr President. As I said in my speech, I could very easily have referred it to the Social Affairs Policy Review 4965

Committee. It is all very well saying that the Review Committee can prioritise its workload. Yes, it can, but something else has to give if it does that. A lot of the workstreams that the Review Committee is actually looking at are ongoing workstreams – workstreams that have been inherited from the previous Committee. It is very important that they do continue. I think if Members do vote for the amendment, then all they will be doing – and they need to be aware 4970

this will happen … If it does go to the Review Committee there is no guarantee that it will be looked at quickly, whereas a select committee will actually start getting it looked at now, and I think there are a lot of people outside this Hon. Court that would actually want it to be looked at sooner rather than later.

4975

The President: Hon. Members, the motion before the Court is that set out at Item 26 in the name of Mr Ashford: Nursery Place Provisions Committee. To that there is an amendment moved by Mr Thomas.

Dealing with the amendment first, those in favour of the amendment, please say aye; against, no. The ayes have it. 4980


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FOR Mr Baker Mrs Beecroft Miss Bettison Mr Boot Mr Cannan Mrs Corlett Mr Cregeen Ms Edge Mr Harmer Mr Malarkey Mr Moorhouse Mr Quayle Mr Robertshaw Mr Skelly Mr Speaker Mr Thomas

AGAINST Dr Allinson Mr Ashford Mrs Caine Mr Callister Mr Hooper Mr Peake Mr Perkins Mr Shimmins

The Speaker: In the Keys, Mr President, 16 votes for, 8 against.


FOR Mr Anderson Mr Coleman Mr Corkish Mr Crookall Mr Henderson Mr Turner

AGAINST Mr Cretney

The President: And in the Council, 6 for and 1 against. The amendment therefore carries. I put the motion as amended to the Court. Those in favour, say aye; against, no. The ayes

have it. The ayes have it.

27. Catering Shared Services – Budgeting and procurement policies –

Amended motion carried The Hon. Member for Ayre and Michael (Mr Baker) to move:

That Tynwald recognises the important contribution made by the Island’s food production sector; and calls on the Council of Ministers to review the Catering Shared Services’ budgeting and procurement policies to ensure its spending decisions appropriately reflect the economic multiplier effects which arise from purchasing Manx-produced food and to report by May 2017. The President: We turn to Item 27, Catering Services. I call on the Hon. Member for Ayre and 4985

Michael, Mr Baker, to move.


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Mr Baker: Thank you, Mr President. I bring this motion to this Hon. Court today because I believe it is essential we grasp this issue

now. Failure to do so or any unnecessary delay will, I believe, have detrimental consequences to 4990

our economy. Equally, a positive outcome will provide a real boost to our economic prospects. This is a key economic issue. It is also about what we feed our children, and others, and it is about how we spend our money.

Catering Shared Services currently sits, of course, within the Department of Health and Social Care. It is under considerable financial pressure. The financial issues surrounding the 4995

Department are well known and only a few hours ago this Hon. Court debated the additional £11 million funding requirement for this financial year. These financial pressures will not abate of their own accord.

Catering Shared Services contributed significantly to the Department’s overspend. According to the Department’s own figures this morning it was £1.3 million over budget for the current 5000

financial year and has a net spend of £3 million. The promised savings from the move to a shared-service model have not been achieved. Pressure to reduce expenditure is inevitable going forward as part of the Department’s cost-cutting programme.

Furthermore, there is evidence that the move from local to central control of catering services has led to a move away from fresh, Manx-produced produce to more frozen, imported 5005

meals and the consolidation of the supply base towards larger scale producers. This is contrary to emerging trends, such as increased localism, emphasis on healthy eating and provenance – knowing where food has come from. This trend reduces our food security and also makes poor economic sense, increasing our imports and substituting away from Manx producers. Small-scale local producers will never compete on price against industrial-scale producers who can benefit 5010

from vast economies of scale, but our decision-making should be about much more than price, reflecting the social benefits, sustainability, quality and our environment and other factors.

Clearly, with any step we take we need to be mindful of our international obligations. EU regulations, for instance, do affect us but they do not prevent us from taking a progressive approach to this issue. We only need to look across to Scotland, who I understand have a local 5015

food first policy in which tender calculations are based on the most economically advantageous tender, not the cheapest.

As a non-core service within the Department of Health and Social Care, management will inevitably see Catering Shared Services as a prime area for further cutbacks. One of the easiest methods of making significant savings within Catering Shared Services is to further switch 5020

spending away from higher-cost, locally produced food and substitute it with cheaper, mass-produced imported products. As an aside, in addition to being cheaper, these products are also inferior quality, lack provenance and are not what we would ideally choose to feed to our children and those in poor health.

Such cost-cutting may make good economic and practical sense when viewed through the 5025

narrow lens of the Department with financial responsibility for it, i.e. the Department of Health and Social Security. However, let us consider the implications from a wider perspective of both other Departments and Isle of Man plc. Within Government, both DED and DEFA see Manx food production as a key growth area. The Food Matters Strategy is working hard to develop a £50 million per annum sector. 5030

DEFA is a custodian of our environment, food and agriculture sectors. Much effort is going on to ensure our major food processors – such as Isle of Man Meats, the Creamery and Laxey Glen Mills – can meet the challenges of higher costs, lower volumes and lack of economies of scale which result from our Island base. Meanwhile confidence is low in our primary agricultural sector and in the related support services which contribute so much to our rural economy which 5035

underpins our Island life. The Department of Economic Development and Treasury are tasked with achieving economic

growth and managing our economy to ensure we maintain a financially responsible Government. Everyone is striving to deliver growth and find new opportunities. Meanwhile the


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team approach of the new administration emphasises the imperatives of collaborative and 5040

proactive working in the joined-up approach between all stakeholders to deliver the future that our Island needs.

It is into this context that I bring this motion. As an economist, I am acutely aware of the economic multiplier effect that changes in demand have on the performance of an economy. We all recognise that we are a in period of real uncertainty and many economic factors are 5045

outside our control: Brexit, exchange rates, global interest rates, etc. We must, therefore, look at what we can affect and then endeavour to influence it positively. All local expenditure has a positive multiplier effect and should be encouraged. All Government expenditure falls within this category to a greater or lesser extent. However, the extent to which it applies varies significantly. It depends on the goods and services it is spent on, the nature of the supply chain 5050

and where the profit arises. There is no such thing as the local economic multiplier, no one-size-fits-all approach; no sweeping generalisation can be made.

I support the principle of ensuring Government’s purchasing power is used to spend locally wherever possible, as clearly do the Council of Ministers and the Programme for Government; it is explicitly stated in there, as we know from this morning’s discussions. However, we need to be 5055

much bolder in this area. My motion focuses on Manx-produced food. Firstly because, of all the goods purchased by

Government, its supply chain is the most local. Because of this, it has the biggest economic multiplier effect on our economy. It is 100% manufactured on our Island and the costs incurred are spent on our Island, recirculating the money into jobs, goods and services, with a positive 5060

multiplier effect on our economy. Secondly, the level of expenditure through Catering Shared Services is big enough to have a

significant impact on our economy. Catering Shared Services is the single biggest potential customer for our Manx food producers. It serves approximately 15,000 meals per day, predominantly to our school children and hospital patients. It is on our doorstep. It has to be the 5065

number-one target market for Manx food. Properly directed, Catering Shared Services’ purchasing power can be a powerful driver of the economy, provided Manx-produced food can increase its share of its spending. Equally, the opposite is true: if its share continues to decline, then this will have adverse effect on our economy with some unpalatable consequences for both Government and the Island as a whole. 5070

So, get this right and it is potentially great news for our economy; get it wrong and a tough job just gets a whole load harder. For success, we need to be both bold and intentional. We need to ensure that our procurement processes and our budgeting processes are fit for purpose to ensure that we get the right outcomes. To do this, we need to evaluate and quantify the multiplier effect for each category of expenditure. Our approach also needs to ensure that this 5075

does not become a licence for local producers or suppliers simply to become complacent or greedy, or for poor cost management within Government.

This initiative needs real focus and collaboration. It is of real economic importance and absolutely needs the right emphasis and insight. I therefore place this motion before you today and ask that you give it your full support. 5080

Mr President, I beg to move. The President: Hon. Member for Garff, Mr Perkins. Mr Perkins: Thank you, Mr President. 5085

I am privileged to be able to second the motion. My hon. colleague from Ayre and Michael has eloquently put the main points, and owing to

the late hour I will not go over them again. I would stress that this motion is not a blank cheque to our farming community. It is for a

review to examine our procurement and budgeting policies. The old saying goes ‘penny wise and 5090


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pound foolish’. It is extremely important that we quantify the multiplier effect and fully investigate the true strategic value to the Island of purchasing locally produced food.

Mr President, I beg to second the motion and reserve my remarks. The Speaker: You cannot reserve. 5095

The President: Hon. Member for Ayre and Michael, Mr Cannan. The Minister for the Treasury (Mr Cannan): Thank you, Mr President. I was absolutely delighted to see this motion on the Order Paper. (A Member: Hear, hear.) 5100

The Hon. Member for Ayre and Michael is following in some illustrious footsteps. (Laughter and interjections) In March 2014, I asked the Chief Minister at that time if he would review procurement policies as it was vital that Government supported local business to create jobs and raise appropriate revenues. At the time the Chief Minister said he agreed ‘wholeheartedly’:

It would be totally inappropriate for Government on the one hand to be urging the local population to shop local, when in fact Government was not doing the same itself.

However, that particular question, which was pursued a number of times, did not really go 5105

anywhere. But in other illustrious footsteps, the year before, I actually moved another motion, this time

to have the Countryside Care Scheme examined in its entirety to try and encourage and produce a better result for Manx farming, for Manx farmers, and indeed for food production on this Island, so that farmers and the local agricultural industry was put in a better position when it 5110

came to its food supply and its purchasing. That, in fact, resulted in the Department of Environment, Food and Agriculture reporting to the Environment and Infrastructure Policy Review Committee in the last couple of years. In their last report they said that they were developing a Government food procurement policy that identifies sustainability and food security issues. I do not know exactly what happened to that particular commitment that DEFA 5115

gave, but I am sure that the Hon. Member will be able to investigate a little bit further as to where that particular policy is.

On a broader scale, Mr President, you will see that I have moved an amendment to the Hon. Court that changes the emphasis slightly of the Hon. Member’s intentions and broadens it out to ensure that we are developing our whole budgeting and procurement policies to ensure that, 5120

where possible, our spending decisions give appropriate weighting to the local economic benefits which arise from purchasing locally supplied goods and services, and of course to report to the Hon. Chamber by July 2017.

As many Hon. Members will know, the matter of procurement and purchasing locally is not always a clear-cut matter. Those who have been around for a while will know that we do have 5125

international obligations, or at least are purported to have international obligations under our Protocol 3 arrangements. Now, of course, under EU law, public procurement is subject to EU legislation and specifically focuses on the principles of non-discrimination, free movement of goods, freedom to provide services and freedom of establishment. What is not entirely clear, however, is the extent to which this applies to the Isle of Man or indeed how this should be 5130

applied specifically to Government procurement policy, but I had a look at the last Government procurement policy, which was last amended in September 2012, and that policy itself does appear to imply that Government’s procurement policy should be weighted towards local goods and services and that we should be maximising the benefit to the local economy of Government purchasing activity and encouraging the development of a mixed economy and maintaining 5135

market flexibility through tailoring individual procurement strategies to specific commodities or services.


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Mr President, as you will also know, the Government has produced its Programme for Government which we saw this morning – or the Council of Ministers have produced it in conjunction with Tynwald – and in that document we have clearly stated we must improve our 5140

procurement policy to ensure that we spend more money locally where possible. I can tell you that Treasury are working with the Attorney General’s Chambers and are in the process of developing a new procurement policy. We are aware that there is a local concern regarding procurement, in particular the issue of contracts being awarded to off-Island contractors, and the issue has been included, as I said, in the Programme for Government. 5145

We do have those obligations under Protocol 3 in relation to open access of our market. We do have international obligations in relation to undertaking non-discriminatory practices, and we have national legislation in relation to freedom of establishment. We have also, alongside that, to get value for money.

So I would propose that now is the right time to fully review how these factors relate to our 5150

procurement policy. The new policy will have to ensure compliance with these factors together with being able to be applied equitably, reasonably and fairly to all suppliers. We also have to consider, of course, there could be occasions when the cost differential exceeds any local economic benefit. There has to be a balance between value for money for local taxpayers and local procurement. Policy will be required to determine these issues. However, of course, we do 5155

want to support local business and the local economy and we will continue to work with Chambers to develop a supportive local policy compliant with our legal obligations.

This amendment that I am bringing forward broadens out the issue to make sure that we are not leaving anybody behind here, we are fully and effectively reviewing our policies, and that we are committed to assessing our policies across the board. I trust that Hon. Members will take 5160

comfort from this commitment and await the report in July 2017, which will look fully and completely at our procurement policies and which will include definitely a section specifically on food procurement and other local procurement which is relevant.

I beg to move the amendment: To leave out all the words after ‘That Tynwald’ and add the words ‘calls on the Council of Ministers to develop budgeting and procurement policies to ensure, where possible, its spending decisions give appropriate weighting to economic benefits which arise from purchasing locally supplied goods and services; and to report by July 2017.’ The President: Hon. Member for Douglas North, Mr Peake. 5165

Mr Peake: Thank you, Mr President. I beg to second the amendment and reserve my

remarks. The President: You cannot reserve your remarks but you can certainly second. 5170

Hon. Member for Garff, Mrs Caine. Mrs Caine: Thank you, Mr President. ‘You are what you eat’ is a well-known saying. Well, for the majority of our children taking

school dinners they are frozen baked potato and frozen pizza; they are frozen fish and chips and 5175

peas; they are even frozen omelette. They are not any longer getting the benefit of freshly prepared food from home-grown Manx produce in significant quantities. The schools do not have the freedom to source local produce and cook many dishes; they simply reheat. The children complain – a lot – and they ask to change to packed lunches. In dietary terms, they are more battery farm than free-range when it comes to school dinners. I cannot believe that is 5180

what anyone wanted to achieve. Surely quality as much as the multiplier benefits of using locally sourced food should be a consideration when we are considering our children’s diet or the food required to tempt the appetite of someone in hospital.


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I fully support the motion before us today from the Hon. Member for Ayre and Michael, Mr Baker. An urgent review is needed. The sooner catering services are returned to individual 5185

schools’ management the better for all concerned: better for the local suppliers of meat and vegetables; better for the smooth running of the schools; but, most of all, better for our children. The same goes for hospital and care home catering. Why wouldn’t we want the best locally produced food to be on all their menus?

Centralised catering services lost money, contributing to the overspend by the Department of 5190

Health and Social Care. What an unnecessary distraction for that Department. What a ridiculous state of affairs, to reduce the variety and nutritious value of school meals for no cost or health benefit.

There is not much about food production in the Programme for Government but it does pledge to, on page 11: 5195

Make best use of our Island’s land and seas for leisure and work through food, agriculture and fisheries strategies … that work together with our environment.

It is a bit woolly but it will not take a strategist to find the answer; it simply requires a bit of common sense. Preparing healthy, balanced meals with fresh food is acknowledged to be healthier with the ability to control salt and sugar levels. School and hospital catering is not rocket science. We have the skills. Arguably, most staff have been retained because the same number are needed to prepare meals from scratch as are required to reheat frozen ready meals. 5200

I and other parents would be prepared to pay a higher amount for better quality, fresh Manx food that our children will actually enjoy eating.

Turning to the amendment proposed by Mr Cannan, I am a little disappointed that it takes the focus off the catering services, but perhaps the school caretaking services should also be reviewed and hopefully returned to individual schools’ control, because the loss in terms of 5205

management time from having three separate Departments manage staff within a single entity of a school is actually not the best use of time.

I think on balance I would support the amendment, but I would really like to see some positive improvements and benefit for the schools, for the children and for the local food producers. 5210

Thank you, Mr President. The President: Hon. Member for Onchan, Ms Edge. Ms Edge: Thank you, Mr President. 5215

I fully support ‘Buy Local’ and the principles of the motion. We have heard earlier today – and I will not repeat what the overspend has been with Government catering, but it was 39% this year just for Shared Services.

We have heard in this Court previously from Mr Ashford with regard to hash browns on top of tinned minced beef being sold as cottage pie. Clearly the quality does need to improve, and 5220

yes I would prefer to see fresh Manx potatoes with Manx meat as cottage pie supplied through the service.

I would also like to point out that whilst we are talking about Shared Services this did not only affect catering services within Government. It was imposed on other service areas: caretaking, cleaning, OHR and GTS. I am not aware of any of these other Departments coming to the Court 5225

to ask for additional funds, so clearly they have achieved the cost savings that the Court required.

What I would like to say is that I am in full support of the Hon. Member for Garff, Mrs Caine, that the service should be transferred back to Education, where students can be educated on healthy lifestyles incorporated with quality product being available, utilising Manx produce 5230

where possible.


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The amendment: I agree, again, with the Hon. Member for Garff that it is distracting from the real issues of Shared Services, and whilst I think there should be a full review of procurement and policies and implemented across the board, I would like to see what the Hon. Member for Garff has recommended put into practice. 5235

Thank you. The President: Hon. Member for Douglas Central, Mrs Corlett. (Laughter and interjections) Mrs Corlett: Thank you, Mr President. 5240

Having worked in the catering industry for 30 years, I am a staunch supporter of Manx produce.

Government has considerable buying power. Any decision to no longer buy Manx could have a disastrous effect on locally grown and produced foods, and the jobs connected to it. Buying cheaper, imported products would almost certainly provide part of a quick fix for the catering 5245

budgets, but I would argue that quick fix would cost us dearly. This brings us back to the earlier comments on recognising cost from value. Part of the value

is sustainability. We really need to consider the problems we could encounter if meat, dairy products, flour or bread were no longer produced on the Island. Our food production is of excellent quality and we should endeavour to promote and support it. I am not suggesting this 5250

should come at any cost – suppliers have to be as fair and as competitive as they can be; but I am in full support of the principles contained within this motion.


The President: Hon. Member for Ramsey, Mr Hooper. Mr Hooper: Thank you, Mr President. I fully supported the original motion that was on the table before us, but the amendment,

whilst it removes the focus from food, it does broaden the scope to include all Government 5260

procurement, which is a good thing. However, I will not be supporting the amendment, mainly because the original motion is just better, in my view. There is nothing wrong with the amendment, it is just not my preference.

Briefly, in respect of the school catering that has been mentioned already, we are already working hard to bring that back within Education to reduce the impact of it being delivered as a 5265

non-core service within Health. Also, we are looking at the caretaking as well, but the main focus and one of the reasons we are looking to bring that back within Education is so that we can take control of the catering procurement back to a local level, back to within the schools, to put the focus back on locally produced food, and I think this is one area where we can be leading Government in its procurement policies. 5270

One small point to make on the amendment, Hon. Members, is there is a significant difference between ‘Manx produced’ and ‘locally supplied’ and would I hope the Council of Ministers bear this in mind when developing their policies. Manx-produced food has the whole supply chain here on the Island, but ‘locally supplied’ could encompass Tesco in Douglas, so please bear that in mind when voting on this amendment. 5275

Thank you, Hon. Members. The President: Hon. Member for Douglas Central, Mr Thomas.


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Two Members: Go on, Chris! 5280

The Minister for Policy and Reform (Mr Thomas): Thank you very much, Mr President. Just immediately picking up on one of the remarks by the Hon. Member for Ramsey,

Mr Hooper, which is that unless we change Government procurement policy, Government budgeting policies and Government regulations and so on, we will not be able to go too far 5285

independently in Education or in Health and Social Care or anywhere else. This Government is trying to prioritise its work and what we have actually done here is

propose in a short time period – six months – to actually put together a better, social value related, locally orientated … taking into account the multipliers that we accept and everybody knows are available, to actually come up with a better procurement policy. 5290

I moved for this three years ago. The Social Affairs Committee moved for this in Social Care last year, very importantly. There are issues in infrastructure that have been reviewed by the Environment and Infrastructure Committee.

I strongly recommend the amendment moved by the Treasury Minister, and effectively by the Council of Ministers, because what we are doing is not trying to eat the elephant whole, we 5295

are trying to eat the elephant by bits. Mr Cretney: Is that a Manx elephant? (Laughter) The Minister: I set them up and you knock them down, Mr Cretney! 5300

In other words, it is a major achievement to actually … A couple of years ago I was told by the Keys that I could not have leave to introduce a social value procurement Bill because it would put us in breach, probably, of Manx law. I am delighted that we are doing work on that. Obviously Brexit has an impact. We are making progress.

The mover made a very eloquent speech about the potential differences in terms of 5305

multipliers, but I want to bring to this Court’s attention that in actual fact Economic Affairs have already done quite a lot of work on multipliers. At the end of the day, there is only so much research that you can do for the particular situation. It is very hard to start separating out the different multiplier impact of different changes.

What I am saying is this motion, when first brought, was too ambitious in terms of the 5310

deadline – May has been changed to July – and it was too ambitious in terms of the scope. In no way is a vote for the amended motion as placed by the Treasury Minister a vote to say that we do not need to review Shared Services. I can absolutely assure you the timetable for the Treasury Minister to review Shared Services is probably nearly as ambitious, if not equally ambitious, but we have got to do things in manageable bits and nothing can happen until we 5315

change the overall procurement policy and budgeting processes around that. I strongly recommend the amendment and I hope this Hon. Court will support it. The President: Hon. Member, Mr Robertshaw. 5320

Mr Robertshaw: Thank you, Mr President. It is a little bit like that advert on the television, where the person on the screen says, ‘I like

this, and I like this one.’ I thought Mr Baker’s speech was absolutely excellent, (Two Members: Hear, hear.) but also I was extremely sympathetic to the Treasury Minister’s amendment.

I am inclined to support the Treasury Minister’s amendment if I can be encouraged to believe 5325

that the Shared Services element will be thoroughly and fully recognised – and the Treasury Minister is nodding. I like the Treasury Minister’s better.

Thank you. The President: Hon. Member, Mr Cregeen. 5330


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The Minister for Education and Children (Mr Cregeen): Thank you, Mr President. I would just like to clarify a couple of points. The Hon. Member for Garff said that it seemed

like everything was frozen in the schools. Some of the meals may be, but there is a large proportion that are still fresh produce that are put out there. There are the individual schools 5335

where some may be frozen, but the vast majority of them have got freshly produced food in there. I have been round speaking to some of the staff in the primary schools and some of them still are producing their own food; it is not all coming in frozen. It was one of the things that concerned me when I went round some of the secondary schools, that they were serving frozen breaded pollock. It is a fish that most people on the Isle of Man probably threw away many 5340

years ago. That is why my colleague in the Department, Mr Hooper, is working with the Department of Health and Social Care to actually deal with some of these issues to try and improve the quality of food that is going to our children. He is also dealing with the caretakers to see whether that provision is actually working properly.

I would ask Members to support the amendment. It is not just about catering services. We 5345

need to make sure that the services that are provided to our schools and other places are actually working properly, because the next thing that we will have is another motion put down on the Order Paper to deal with the caretakers or with somewhere else. I think we need to deal with it all at once.

I know in my Department the Members are very keen to ensure that our schools are 5350

providing the best possible food we can to our children, and also to be educating them about the benefits of the good food. S

I would ask Members to support the amendment. It actually broadens it out but it is something that we need to get done quickly rather than just piecemeal. So I would ask Members to please support the amendment. 5355

The President: I call on the mover to reply, Mr Baker. Mr Baker: Thank you very much, Mr President. Well, it has certainly elicited a lot of responses and I think it has been a very good debate. 5360

Firstly, Mr Cannan’s response was really encouraging in recognising the issue. Generally there was a widespread acceptance, I think, throughout the whole debate from everybody that the principles of which I am talking here are on the right lines and that there is a piece of work to be done. I was really interested to learn that Mr Cannan had previously raised this. It is great that it has been raised, but I guess my challenge will be that we have not managed to turn it into action 5365

until now and for me that is what it is all about: we have got to turn this into action and deliver. In terms of the revised motion, the amendment, it does broaden it out, which in many

respects is a good thing; however, it does take the focus away from food, and that is the big and probably the major area that I think we need to focus on.

The other key aspect is the distinction – and Mr Hooper picked this up, quite correctly – that 5370

there is a big difference between ‘Manx manufactured’ and ‘locally supplied’. My belief is that a lot of the product that is actually still locally supplied is locally supplied but it is coming from off-Island, so it is coming through a distribution chain, whether that be Tesco, as the example that was given, or one of the food service distributors. But, actually, the heart of this is directing our expenditure to support our local economy and the agricultural sector, the food production 5375

sector, for all the reasons that I talked about in my opening speech. Mrs Caine and Ms Edge both had a very similar theme in terms of the quality of the food and

the Shared Service model, and again that was echoed further through the debate. Whether the amended version or my original version is eventually passed, I welcome the fact that these issues are both out on the table. I think whichever one is passed is going to end up with a 5380

positive outcome for us as an Island. I do accept Mr Thomas’s point about prioritisation. We do need to avoid a scattergun

approach and I would not want to create a scattergun approach.


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Mr Robertshaw, again, thank you very much for your very kind comments about the original speech. I am slightly disappointed that you still preferred Mr Cannan’s to mine, (Laughter) but I 5385

have got five years to catch Mr Cannan up! Mr Cregeen, again, thank you for your comments. I think, in closing, I am very pleased with the way this has been debated. I think there is a

widespread recognition that this is an issue that we need to grapple with. We have got two different ways of grappling with it: either a narrowly focused motion, which is the one that I 5390

have brought, or a wider one. I think whichever one is passed is a good outcome for us. Clearly, I support my original motion because I worded it deliberately to focus on the areas that I wanted to focus on.

I think with those comments I will leave it to this Hon. Court to determine a way forward, but I am very pleased that whichever way it is is a positive outcome for the Island. 5395

Mr Malarkey: They might both fail! Mr Baker: I don’t think so! (Laughter) So, with Mr Malarkey’s very encouraging comments there, (Laughter) I beg to move the 5400

motion standing in my name. Thank you very much. The President: Hon. Members, the motion before the Court is at Item 27, Catering Services,

in the name of Mr Baker. I put the amendment moved by Mr Cannan first. Those in favour of the amendment, please say aye; against, no. The ayes have it. 5405



FOR Mrs Beecroft Mr Boot Mr Cannan Mr Cregeen Mr Harmer Mr Malarkey Mr Moorhouse Mr Peake Mr Quayle Mr Robertshaw Mr Shimmins Mr Skelly Mr Thomas

AGAINST Dr Allinson Mr Ashford Mr Baker Miss Bettison Mrs Caine Mr Callister Mrs Corlett Ms Edge Mr Hooper Mr Perkins Mr Speaker

The Speaker: Mr President, in the House of Keys, 13 votes for, 11 against.


FOR Mr Coleman Mr Corkish Mr Cretney Mr Crookall Mr Henderson Mr Turner

AGAINST Mr Anderson

The President: In the Council, 6 for, 1 against. The amendment therefore carries.


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I put the motion as amended. Those in favour, say aye; against, no. The ayes have it. The ayes have it. 5410

28. Living wage – Government proposals –

Motion carried The Hon. Member for Ramsey (Mr Hooper) to move:

That Tynwald is of the opinion that the Isle of Man should establish a living wage and the Cabinet Office should report to Tynwald by October 2017 with proposals to introduce a voluntary living wage. The President: We turn to the final Item on our Order Paper, Hon. Members: Item 28, Living

Wage. Hon. Member for Ramsey, Mr Hooper, to move. Mr Hooper: Thank you, Mr President. The first thing to note is that Hon. Members will see that this motion has two parts: the first, 5415

that the Isle of Man should establish a living wage; and the second calling for proposals as to how a voluntary living wage could be established. I will address these points separately, although they are intrinsically linked.

First, I will address the elephant in the room, helpfully raised by the Hon. Member, the Minister for Economic Development, earlier today in answering questions: wasn’t this already 5420

covered in the Programme for Government? Well, no it was not. The Programme for Government only commits the Council of Ministers to investigating the options to introduce a living wage, which is a far cry from a commitment to actually bringing one in. Is this a one-year commitment, a five-year commitment? Where is it in the list of priorities? The programme just does not address the issue as clearly as I believe it should. 5425

I am not content to sit back and wait for Government to go through the motions only for them to declare that they have fulfilled their commitments by investigating the options, but actually will not be following through with any implementation. It may very well be their intention to bring about a living wage, but for some reason they did not want to put this firmly in writing. If Council decide to go further than a voluntary scheme then that is great news, but as a 5430

minimum I believe it is the duty of this Hon. Court to guide Council of Ministers in the right direction. Let’s set down the outcome that we want and let Government work towards it. Also, with regard to establishing a living wage, isn’t it about time we had a commitment that our Island work should pay enough for people to get by on?

When I was researching the living wage, it seems the earliest reference to the concept was 5435

actually an attempt in England to set a maximum wage for labourers in the late 14th century. Their wages were linked to the price of food. Now, I do hope a maximum wage is not one of the options we end up looking at. It took the Catholic Church until 1891 to express support for a living wage, recognising that wages should be enough to support a family. In this Hon. Court we have had no fewer than five Questions throughout its history relating to a living wage. It says 5440

something when the Catholic Church are more progressive an institution than our own Government in what they are willing to commit to on paper. It is completely outrageous that people are working full-time jobs and yet, because of failings in Government policy over the years, they still have to claim benefits in order to make ends meet. Winston Churchill made almost exactly the same point in 1909 when speaking to the Trade Boards Act. He said: 5445


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It is a serious national evil that any class of His Majesty’s subjects should receive less than a living wage in return for their utmost exertions.

It is my belief that working a full-time job should be enough without having to rely on the state for support. This is plainly not the case today.

There are a number of benefits to paying a living wage, aside from the obvious financial benefits to employees: it is good for employers; it increases staff loyalty and has positive reputational benefits for companies paying the living wage, which is always good for business. A 5450

2012 study by Queen Mary University in London found the costs of implementation were not prohibitive and resulted in improvements for employers who had adopted the living wage. This study also found that if all employees on a low wage in London started being paid the living wage it would save Government £823 million a year in welfare payments. The Living Wage Foundation reports a 25% reduction in staff turnover with 80% of employers reporting increased 5455

staff performance and 70% of employers reporting improved consumer awareness and benefits, all as a result of adopting a living wage.

It is very important here to identify that a living wage is not the same as a minimum wage, and this motion is not calling for an increase in the minimum wage to make it a living wage. The reasons for this are two-fold. Firstly, the purpose of the minimum wage is different to the 5460

purpose of a living wage. The minimum wage is just a legal minimum. Its purpose is to try and level the balance of power between the employer and the employee and it is not in any way linked to the cost of living. This is perhaps a point that is not fully understood by our Government, as when questioning about a living wage earlier last year the Chief Minister referred me to the Minimum Wage Committee, a body which has no remit at all regarding a 5465

living wage. This was repeated by the Minister for Economic Development earlier in this sitting, and so the difference between a minimum wage and a living wage is worth highlighting here, especially as the Minimum Wage Committee’s lack of remit in this area was confirmed by the Hon. Member for Rushen, Mr Skelly, in answer to a Question from the Hon. Member Mr Thomas as far back as April 2015. Secondly, I am not convinced that forcing employers down any 5470

particular path is a good idea. There are a great number of employers on the Island who do their absolute best for their employees but simply cannot afford to pay them more because of the current financial climate. This is why I believe it is the role of Government to encourage employers to get to a living wage in their own time at a pace that is appropriate for their business. Yes, I would like to be able to stand here and call on all employers to pay a living wage, 5475

but I know that just is not practical. This is where a voluntary scheme comes in. If we can establish a voluntary scheme then we

can not only help raise wages; we can help give those employers access to the benefits of promoting themselves as living wage employers. As was already highlighted earlier when talking about a plastic bag levy, it is already the view of the Government that a voluntary scheme would 5480

be preferable as it will be quicker and simpler to introduce, not requiring any significant legislative time. A number of businesses would voluntarily opt in as part of their corporate social responsibilities, and as a matter of course a lot of our international businesses are already paying a living wage as part of the scheme in the UK. I would also hazard that a large number of local employers on Island are already paying a living wage, although this will vary by business 5485

sector. As was pointed out by the Hon. Member for Middle, Mr Shimmins, in that same debate earlier today, a voluntary scheme is about encouraging behaviour, not forcing it on anyone.

The Council of Ministers talks in its Programme for Government about creating an environment that allows business to flourish, growing the economically active population and focusing on sustainable job growth. A living wage ticks all of these priorities and more. A number 5490

of Members have talked today about the ‘Middle Mann’ in the Programme for Government debate and how we should be a caring and inclusive administration. Surely a firm commitment to a living wage is key to this.


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A living wage will improve the reputation and image of the Isle of Man and of our business sectors; it will help share the benefits of our economic growth and it will reduce the cost of 5495

welfare to Government. And if these arguments do not convince you, Hon. Members, let me appeal to your self-interest: it is very good for re-election.

Thank you, Mr President. I beg to move the motion standing in my name. The President: Mr Cretney. 5500

Mr Cretney: Yes, I am very happy to second the resolution that has been moved by the Hon.

Member for Ramsey. I have to say, other than the last sentence, I agree with everything he said, (Several

Members: Hear, hear.) because I do believe there are different views out there in relation to 5505

whether it is the right thing or not. But his presentation throughout, for me, was well thought through and covered all the points, and so I do not believe I have got anything further to add except that I do believe, in terms of the Isle of Man, in terms of the reputation of businesses and the fact that this is a voluntary proposal, we should be voting for it.

5510

The President: Hon. Member for Douglas Central, Mr Thomas. The Minister for Policy and Reform (Mr Thomas): Thank you, Mr President, and for another

excellent presentation of the merits of the case and also an accurate presentation of the issues around consideration of the case. 5515

I wanted to congratulate the Hon. Member for Ayre and Michael for already having made a change to the Programme for Government by introducing a deadline for a piece of work, and now I think if we can work together and we prioritise the use of resources properly and we ask the right questions in the right timetable, the Hon. Member for Ramsey can join with the Hon. Member for Ayre and Michael and actually change the Government Programme by introducing a 5520

deadline. In other words, I fully concur with the target of an October 2017 deadline for the conclusion of the investigation into the introduction of a living wage.

Personally, as the Hon. Member for Ramsey has alluded to through having noted my Questions previously and having my evidence to the Minimum Wage Committee back in the winter before last, I believe the evidence will find one way, but I strongly believe, more 5525

importantly than that, that we need to have that analysis, we need to collect that evidence, we need to interpret it, we need to understand fully what the implications might be, and that is why I am proposing the amendment that is being circulated to Members.

I think there is a problem with the Hon. Member for Ramsey, Mr Hooper’s motion as drafted, in two ways. First of all, how can Government actually do what is stated in the motion? How can 5530

the Isle of Man Government establish something that is being done voluntarily? If the motion had been written as Government should enable a living wage I could have lived with that, but this is about establishing something. How can we vote in this Court for somebody outside to do something voluntarily? The second problem is a tautological one: how can we investigate something in good faith, with people helping us with our investigation, if we have already 5535

reached a conclusion? So the motion I have laid out is a very clear one, which is that we need to conclude the investigation that is identified in the Programme for Government in the timescale imposed by the Hon. Member for Ramsey, Mr Hooper.

Mr Hooper makes a very important point, which is that a Government that calls itself inclusive – especially after the Bank of England Governor has said that an inclusive economy and 5540

society is one that makes sure that people at the bottom end of the pay scales are included in the economic growth; it has defined a new term, ‘inclusive growth’ – is likely, I believe, to find that it is necessary to do what the Hon. Member for Ramsey is seeking, and I think we should be encouraging that.


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It was I who asked the questions of Economic Affairs a couple of years ago to actually start 5545

analysing how much of our growth was going to people at the lower end of society and also how that broke down by industry. Between 2008-09 and 2014-15 there was a decline in the amount of personal income because of certain sectors and how it panned out compared to the overall growth in GDP, and that information can be made more widely available as part of this investigation. 5550

As the Hon. Member for Ramsey has stated, there are strong economic arguments, probably, for doing exactly what he is proposing. As well as being fairer and better for the people involved to increase tax revenues, the spending power will have the local multiplier effect, as has been very eloquently identified by the Hon. Member for Ayre and Michael.

In-work benefits – things like Employed Person’s Allowance and Family Income Supplement – 5555

do seem to have grown substantially in the last seven or eight years and we can investigate that to see whether that is correlating to the issue that has been exposed.

KPMG, who did the work in 2015 that persuaded the UK government to make the changes the Hon. Member for Ramsey does not like, re-calling the minimum wage for over-25s the ‘living wage’, actually found that all these things were helpful for everybody – the government, the 5560

people and so on. Why should our society and our economy be different? But we need to find out whether it is. Most importantly, we need to work with people so that there are no surprises.

In the course of doing the investigation we need to establish what is the cost of living. The Hon. Member for Ramsey, Mr Hooper, said that the voluntary living wage relates to the cost of living, and we do not actually know what that is in our society for this group of people precisely. 5565

We have got an idea but we need to do some work for that. We do not actually know what the impact will be for the business models in certain sectors.

Economic Affairs gave evidence to the Minimum Wage Committee that met recently and we await … the Minister for the Treasury and the Minister for Economic Development await … the recommendation will come back that the minimum wage itself should probably be increased. I 5570

am not sure what the other Members of Government think, and CoMin has not got a view on this, but we gave evidence from Economic Affairs to suggest that the minimum wage even, never mind the living wage, should be higher than it is now and that would benefit us all.

With that, I will sit down, except to state that … Sorry, there was one more important thing – very sorry. To link it back to procurement, this is another issue that we have got to investigate, 5575

because it might well be that Government is part of the issue, but we do not know. We need to investigate. I have already announced that we need to involve people through the new Economic Development Forum in this very decision, so we have got a mechanism to actually bring in the Chamber of Commerce, the unions and the third sector and all the other people.

So, all in all, I really do hope this Court is persuaded that we should do the investigation 5580

before we conclude anything. We should do evidence-based policymaking rather than policy-based evidence-making.

Thank you very much, Hon. Court. I move the amendment: That the words ‘Isle of Man should establish a living wage and the Cabinet Office should report to Tynwald by October 2017 with proposals to introduce a voluntary living wage’ be deleted and replaced with the words ‘Council of Ministers should investigate the option to introduce a living wage by October 2017. The President: Hon. Member for Rushen, Mr Skelly. 5585

The Minister for Economic Development (Mr Skelly): Gura mie eu, Eaghtyrane. First of all, I beg to second the amendment. There is very little I wish to add; he has covered it

well. That last point he made there I think is very poignant, about introducing a Manx national economic development forum, because that picks up, I think, on Mrs Caine’s point that she made in the Programme for Government contribution about engagement with unions and the 5590


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third sector, and obviously the business community as well. That is very much one of the components, I think, that would contribute towards this investigation.

I would like to applaud the mover of the motion, first of all, Mr Hooper, who had clearly done his homework with regard to this issue and he has clearly identified the difference between a minimum wage, the living wage and, as Mr Thomas has talked about, the national living wage. 5595

This is where the confusion comes about. Mr Ashford had asked Questions today about this, and I am delighted that both these two Members have actually been part of the inclusive part of this Programme for Government, because that is why, as Council of Ministers, we have stated that we wish to investigate the option of introducing a living wage. The amendment states that we will do that by October. That is the key differential here with regard to what you have in here 5600

and the amendment before you. What we want to do is consider a living wage for the Isle of Man. We talked about the

potential confusion previously with regard to the minimum wage. The UK has a national living wage, which does get confused with the living wage itself. What we need to do is have all the parties and stakeholders contribute to this investigation – that is the DED, which will be playing a 5605

lead role with regard to the investigation; the Cabinet Office; Treasury; the Living Wage Foundation, which was picked up earlier; and the Minimum Wage Committee, which I know many of you have actually contributed to … that recommendation that will be coming forward, because they collate a considerable amount of information that will be very helpful. So, that, combined with the Manx national economic development forum that will be formed, I think will 5610

be the right body to actually come forward with a conclusion, with a recommendation, by October.

With that, I beg to second the amendment before us. The President: Hon. Member of Council, Mr Henderson. 5615

Mr Henderson: Gura mie eu, Eaghtyrane. I hope the Shirveishagh, the Hon. Member Mr Skelly, is going to include my union, Unite, in

the forthcoming forums, which would be very welcome. Just for the record, we are not confused. I think what is causing any confusion is where we 5620

keep getting told that we are confused. There is no confusion. The minimum wage is a floor which is set in law that says all employers must pay this rate of pay as a minimum; no one is to be paid any less, or it is illegal. The UK national living wage set by the UK government is a halfway house between the minimum wage and the actual living wage from the UK Living Wage Foundation, and it is set at a percentage of the average wage. The Living Wage Foundation, 5625

which proposes the phrase ‘a living wage’, is something different, which is based on a basket of household goods, fuel costs, heating costs and a range of other elements that a family require not just to scrape along but to get along and be able to feed their family in a reasonable way – not at an opulent rate or having to rely on cheap products or miss a meal, but actually able to buy their family a decent meal. Those are the three areas. The European Union has also looked 5630

in examinations at this 60% living wage as their calculations. Getting back to the motion, Eaghtyrane, I fully support the concept of the living wage by the

UK Living Wage Foundation as a starting point and for the reasons the Hon. Member has said: it gives an employee some sort of sense of worth, credibility; it gives them some money in their pocket where they are actually able to live and not exist. Unite has referred to the ‘working 5635

poor’ before now, and that is not so far from the truth or an extremist comment when you look at what folk in the service industries are paid and so on and some part-time work and the hours that people have to work to actually come anywhere near what they need to pay the family bills. It also has, as said, an impact on benefits and a desire to get into employment, and I think we should seriously look at this because it is in the direction we have all been talking about, and my 5640

expression ‘Middle Mann’ and so on and so forth in the Chief Minister’s Programme for Government. It is all there and I think we should seriously have a look at this.


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With regard to how the UK Living Wage Foundation works things out, or how a living wage is worked out – questions posed by Ministers Skelly and Thomas – I would say, Ministers, get in touch with the UK Living Wage Foundation and get their equations, because they have used a 5645

current consultant to work it out, but previously they were using university studies as well, and they are very well worth getting hold of to see how the figures are arrived at. It is not plucked out of the air, it is actually looked at in a responsible and professional way as well, so well worth doing.

Also, for the record, Eaghtyrane, I did put an extensive submission to the Minimum Wage 5650

Committee recommending that we move towards the UK National Living Wage Foundation’s living wage, so we will see how far we get and what recommendations come back from our Minimum Wage Committee on that.

With regard to Mr Thomas, Hon. Member for Douglas Central’s amendment, he does make some good points, certainly with regard to the voluntary acceptance of this and how do we 5655

propose something in Tynwald that causes a voluntary something or other to … So I am fully supportive of the Hon. Member for Ramsey, Mr Hooper’s intentions, apart from

the last line of his submission – I delete myself from that – but I am also supportive of what the Hon. Member Mr Thomas has said and I will trust you to actually do the due diligence on that, Eaghtyrane, and we will see what transpires from that. 5660

Gura mie eu, Eaghtyrane. The President: Hon. Member for Ramsey, Dr Allinson. Dr Allinson: Thank you, Mr President. 5665

I welcome the debate on low pay and really appreciate the comments made by the Minister for Policy and Reform and the Minister for Economic Development. For far too long low wages have been subsidised by the taxpayer through state benefits such as Income Support and Employed Person’s Allowance. We need a living wage to ensure that working people can provide for themselves and their families, and this intrinsically leads to a more equal and inclusive 5670

society. I also think we need to look at the benefits system and see how it disadvantages people from

getting back into employment. Why should somebody on Jobseeker’s Allowance be able to do less permitted voluntary work than somebody on Incapacity Benefit? Doesn’t this introduce a perverse incentive for people to leave the employment market and sign on as sick and give us a 5675

false sense of the unemployment rate on this Island? I also think we should monitor closely the trial of the universal basic income in Glasgow and Fife, which may demonstrate that changes to the benefits system overall can improve the whole of society.

Thank you. 5680

The President: Hon. Member for Douglas East, Mr Robertshaw. Mr Robertshaw: Thank you, Mr President. I am looking at the mover here in my comments. I am not sure I am as uncomfortable as the

Minister for Policy and Reform is with the wording, because my interpretation of the intention 5685

behind the wording was that the establishment of a living wage was to establish the level of the living wage and that the second part was to introduce a voluntary living wage. That is absolute clarity, as far as I am concerned, and I do not see where the problem is. I think it is the Government’s role to establish what the level of the living wage is, and once that is established then let the market indicate back to Government where it stands on it, and then let Government 5690

again take a view at a later date, rather than become ensconced in complicated unnecessary consultation. I think everybody in the Court accepts that we need a living wage: let Government establish what it is. I think the market needs the opportunity to exercise itself against the


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voluntary side, and let us then come back and consider again where we stand. I think we are making this too complicated. I go with the mover on this one. 5695

The President: Hon. Member for Douglas North, Mr Peake. Mr Peake: Thank you, Mr President. I will be supporting the amendment. I am very pleased to hear Mr Thomas say that he wants 5700

to fully understand what is going on, and so the Council of Ministers really need to examine in the first instance and carry out an impact assessment of the introduction of the living wage, voluntary or otherwise, because surely we cannot make any recommendations without considering the impact of those recommendations. A growing, vibrant and viable domestic economy is ultimately the best way to see salaries rise. 5705

Thank you. The President: I call on Mr Hooper to reply. Mr Hooper: Thank you, Mr President, and I would like to thank all the Members that have 5710

contributed. I would like to thank the Hon. Member of Council, Mr Cretney, for seconding the motion and

for his supportive comments. I would like to thank, first of all, the Minister for Policy and Reform, for, even in his

amendment, confirming the October 2017 deadline is workable. I do appreciate that, although I 5715

do take issue, as Mr Robertshaw has, with his understanding of the first part of the motion. By establishing a living wage, ‘establish’ defined by the Oxford English Dictionary, means to bring about or to show something to be true by determining the facts. That was always the intention of the motion, that Government would go away and do the necessary work and then come back, not just to pick a figure out of the air and decide that is going to be our living wage. It has to be 5720

set by reference to the cost of living, which means we first need to establish a cost of living and do all the work that surrounds that, including potential consultation with industry bodies and the public.

I would like to thank the Hon. Member for Rushen for his support and his commitments made to establishing a living wage. I do not disagree at all that the economic development 5725

forum and the Minimum Wage Committee may be the right places to develop this further, and that is not hindered at all by the wording of my original motion.

I would like to thank the Member of Council, Mr Henderson, for clarifying the differences between the minimum wage and a living wage, and I actually do fully agree with him that the evidence base in the UK would be an absolutely excellent resource for us to use. 5730

Again, the comments from my colleague from Ramsey, Dr Allinson – he makes some absolutely brilliant points about equality, improving equality, improving inclusiveness and helping people back into employment. Interestingly, he has picked up on the universal basic income, which may be a further way forward a little bit further down the line, and I hope that the Treasury Minister does consider that as part of his reviews of the whole benefits system. 5735

After dealing with that, I will turn to the amendment. I think our Ministers must be quite timid creatures to be proposing this amendment. It demonstrates quite clearly the lack of commitment I was talking about earlier on in regard to the Programme for Government. I was very disheartened to hear the Hon. Member, Mr Thomas, mention earlier today, in respect of nursery provision, that it was not in the Programme for Government at this time. So I think in 5740

this case he is looking to amend this motion back to what is already in the programme, trying to draw back control. And yet that is supposed to be a living document. Are we to accept, then, that having approved this living document any changes must therefore be approved by the Council of Ministers? Must they be amended by them back to something they find to be acceptable? 5745


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This amendment, in my view, is a disgraceful attempt to shy away from making any kind of firm commitment at all towards a living wage, and I say this specifically because the words ‘the Isle of Man should establish a living wage’ have been removed from the amendment. If those words had been left in, I would be more than happy to support the amendment as worded. If it is truly the intention of the Council of Ministers to bring in a living wage, why are they afraid to 5750

put that in writing and to include that commitment here in this motion? Is it because they are afraid to challenge themselves, and instead want to water down any commitment to give them a get-out clause if it turns out to be hard? ‘Investigate the option to introduce’ leaves them the option of not introducing a living wage, and that is not something I can support.

Are Hon. Members satisfied with this? Are we satisfied with a Council of Ministers that is so 5755

afraid to fail it is not even willing to try? We have heard how ambitious and courageous this Council of Ministers are, and yet with their first real opportunity to embrace this they turn away and retreat back into their comfort zone. I believe it is our duty to stand against this timidity and make it clear to this Government that we expect more from them and we will not be satisfied with anything less than their full commitment to issues of national importance. 5760

The Hon. Member for Douglas Central asked how can we consult on something if the outcome is already set. In this case, I would say: how can we not? We have been elected on a change platform, not just on a promise to consult on every single option. Yes, let’s consult on the detail – how the wage is set, how it might work – but not on the principle that we should have a living wage. Let’s be clear, Hon. Members: supporting the amendment is telling Council of 5765

Ministers that we are willing to let mediocrity prevail and that they can stick to the letter of the Programme for Government and not the spirit in which we all worked to put it together.

By way of comparison, the Scottish government has a commitment in its programme for government, specifically in its labour strategy, to get 1,000 living wage employers by the end of this year. And yet our Government is not even willing to commit to bringing in a living wage at 5770

all, and instead we are being asked to support only an investigation into options, one of which might end up being no living wage. I, for one, did not run for election so I could then run away from my principles, and I would urge all Hon. Members to vote against the amendment and instead support the original motion. Yes, we need to do the legwork and look at the evidence; that is exactly what ‘establish a living wage’ refers to. But we also need a firm end goal in sight, 5775

and the original motion calls only for a voluntary scheme, which gives us the flexibility to work with industry to bring in something that works for everyone.

I leave you with a final thought, which I have taken from Adam Smith’s The Wealth of Nations. It might be slightly out of date in its wording but definitely not in its meaning:

Servants, labourers, and workmen of different kinds, make up the far greater part of every great political society. But what improves the circumstances of the greater part can never be regarded as an inconveniency to the whole.

So let’s make this commitment, Hon. Members, and not shy away from the challenges ahead. 5780

Mr President, I beg to move. Mr Cretney: Hear, hear. The President: Hon. Members, I put the motion at Item 28, Living Wage, moved by 5785

Mr Hooper, and to that there is an amendment in the name of Mr Thomas. I put the amendment first. Those in favour, say aye; against, no. The noes have it.




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FOR Mrs Beecroft Mr Boot Mrs Caine Mr Callister Mr Cannan Mr Cregeen Mr Harmer Mr Malarkey Mr Peake Mr Quayle Mr Skelly Mr Thomas

AGAINST Dr Allinson Mr Ashford Mr Baker Miss Bettison Mrs Corlett Ms Edge Mr Hooper Mr Moorhouse Mr Perkins Mr Robertshaw Mr Shimmins Mr Speaker

The Speaker: In the Keys, Mr President, 12 votes for and 12 votes against.


FOR Mr Corkish Mr Crookall Mr Turner

AGAINST Mr Anderson Mr Coleman Mr Cretney Mr Henderson

The President: And in Council, 3 votes for and 4 against. The amendment therefore fails to 5790

carry, both in the Keys – Mr Cretney: Good old LegCo again, hey? The President: It fails to carry in the Keys and in the Legislative Council. 5795

I put the motion: those in favour, say aye; against, no. The ayes have it. A division was called for and electronic voting resulted as follows:


FOR Dr Allinson Mr Ashford Mr Baker Mrs Beecroft Miss Bettison Mrs Caine Mr Callister Mr Cannan Mrs Corlett Mr Cregeen Ms Edge Mr Hooper Mr Malarkey Mr Moorhouse Mr Peake Mr Perkins Mr Robertshaw Mr Shimmins Mr Skelly Mr Speaker Mr Thomas

AGAINST Mr Boot Mr Harmer Mr Quayle


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The Speaker: I the Keys, 21 votes for, 3 votes against. In the Council – Ayes 7, Noes 0

FOR Mr Anderson Mr Coleman Mr Corkish Mr Cretney Mr Crookall Mr Henderson Mr Turner

AGAINST None

The President: And in the Council, 7 votes for and no votes against. The motion therefore

carries. Hon. Members, that concludes the business before the Court today. 5800

Just before … [Inaudible] may I remind Hon. Members that the National Holocaust Memorial Service takes place next Sunday, the 22nd, at St Mary’s Church, Douglas, to be seated by 2.45 p.m.

The Council will now withdraw and leave the House of Keys to transact such business as Mr Speaker may place before it. 5805

The Council withdrew.

House of Keys

The Speaker: Thank you. The House is now adjourned until our next regular sitting, which is next Tuesday,

24th January, at 10 a.m. in our own Chamber.

The House adjourned at 7.56 p.m.