1

Sydna Woodruff and Foster Woodruff

Narrators

Carol Ryan Interviewer

July 21, 1985

Star Island, Minnesota Foster Woodruff -FW Sydna Woodruff -SW Carol Ryan -CR CR: This is Star Island. I'm Carol Ryan. It's July 21, 1985. I would like each of you, if you would, to tell me your names, your occupations, paid or unpaid and your ages - that would help - and then I want to know the place of principal residence and approximately how far it is from that place to Star Island.

FW: I'll start. Foster and Sydna Woodruff. Residence, Lincoln, Nebraska. Distance from Lincoln to Star Island approximately 550 miles, eleven driving hours and what else did you ask?

CR: Occupations.

FW: Retail lumber business for myself and Sydna is a housewife.

SW: I’m 54, he’s 53. I knew that was going to be a sore point.

CR: Could you tell me when you and your family first started coming to Star Island?

FW: I'm not absolutely sure about my family. I started in 1931 because I was up the for the year that I was born and I have been coming, to the best of my knowledge, every year since with one year during the war we did not...gas rationing or something…we did not make it.

CR: Was it your grandfather who came first?

FW: My grandfather came first.

CR: And his name was?

FW: Samuel Alexander Foster and he built this cabin and then he built...

CR: About when - what year would that have been?

FW: 1916. Isn't it on the sidewalk? And then he built the one that my sister is in.

Star Is

land O

ral H

istory

Proj

ect

Minnes

ota H

istori

cal S

ociet

y

2

CR: When would he have built that?

FW: I'm not sure when that...

SW: Middle '30s.

FW: My grandmother died and he remarried and he built that for his new wife and at the same time then his son, Earl Foster, I think, was involved in building this one next door which Letitia Haecker is now in and again dates I cannot tell you

CR: Why do you think your grandfather came up here?

FW: They spent quite a few years down at Osakis and various other points south and visiting and looking and never really quite found what they wanted until they found this and when they found this they knew it was it and settled here.

SW: It was the beach, to my understanding. It was the most beautiful beach in all of Minnesota which probably won't please the eastern and western shores because it wasn't just the island.

FW: The beach and the exposure of it.

CR: Why were they looking for a place outside Nebraska? They wanted water - what was the attraction of Minnesota?

FW: I really don't know. I suppose just the same reason we like it. The water and getting away. Our water in Nebraska is rather muddy and it's not quite like this. We do have sand beaches but not anything like this. Just the expanse of the water, the coolness, I suppose.

CR: Did they stay at the hotels?

FW: I'm sure they did back in those days.

CR: Did they have other friends who were already here on the island?

FW: The Flansburgs.

CR: They knew the Flansburgs?

FW: The Flansburgs were from Lincoln also.

CR: When you started coming in 1931 and through the '30s, how did you come? Did you come by car?

FW: Came by car. Prior to that they did come on the train.

CR: Really? How long did it take you when you were coming by car in the '30s?

FW: I honestly don't recall. I would say two to three days. It was a long trip I remember.

Star Is

land O

ral H

istory

Proj

ect

Minnes

ota H

istori

cal S

ociet

y

3

CR: Did you bring supplies from home or did you…

FW: No, I don't recall bringing many supplies.

CR: So you bought most things here when you came.

FW: Yes. The corner grocery.

CR: And the corner grocery delivered, do you recall?

FW: Yes.

CR: By boat. What that the Phyllis Ann?

FW: No, that was a boat prior to that. It was pointed at both ends and I don't recall – sure it had a name the name but I can't tell you. But it had a little one lung engine and it was just chug, chug, chug across.

CR: What other family members share this cottage with you?

FW: Well, at this point none, really. When my mother and father gave it up and gave it to us and my sister had the other cabin and our children will, from time to time in the future, put they are not in the position now to spend much time here in the summer.

CR: So your sister is here in the community down at the end of the beach. Are you related to anyone else here in the community?

FW: My cousin over here. First cousin, Letitia Haecker.

SW: And your first cousin once removed, Woody.

CR: Approximately how much time do you spend here each summer?

FW: I spend approximately six weeks plus. You'll spend [unclear].

CR: Is this about the same or more or less time than your grandparents or parents spent here?

FW: Well, I think it's probably about the same. I think my grandparents and my parents used to stay longer at one time. You didn't commute. You came and stayed and now we commute a little more. I'll stay for two weeks and go home for one or two and then come back for two.

SW: Yes, because when your father used to come, he would stay a month.

FW: Yes. He'd stay a month.

CR: Was he in the same business?

FW: No, he's in the printing business.

Star Is

land O

ral H

istory

Proj

ect

Minnes

ota H

istori

cal S

ociet

y

4

CR: Have you come at other times of year?

FW: Yes. We have been up here four winters?

SW: Three.

FW: Three winters. We love the winter. We're winterized so we can use it in the winter. Plumbing and all.

CR: Did your relatives come at other times of year?

FW: No.

CR: So this is something that you've been able to do that they have not?

FW: That is right.

CR: Because of better roads, better cars?

FW: Well, the facility to get over here - I suppose snowmobiles and those things helps you get around easier.

CR: Was your cottage always this size or has it been added on to like so many of the cottages?

FW: The dining room was added on to. I would get from the construction that the porch was added on to it. Other than that, I don't think so. The back porch could have been added on. Yeah, I'm sure the back porch as added onto also.

CR: Would you say there is any particular style of furniture?

SW: Too fancy.

FW: Leftovers from Lincoln.

SW: Well, some of those Lucille spent a lot of money on that bamboo. Well, that could be why they get robbed. I think it’s [unclear] ridiculous but some [unclear] doing that, too. We have an old hall tree. You know, the thing with the mirrors. It's out in the back house and [unclear] about taking that home. It must be 50 years, old - my father’s.

CR: I’ve taken some things home, too. Pitchers and water bowl sets, things like that. When you are here what are the types of activities each of you most enjoy doing?

FW: I think we...I do a lot of just puttering because it's different than what I do at home and I like it. Fixing and repairing and that kind of busy work. We used to sail more than we do now. We used to water ski more. We don't do that much anymore if at all. We do sail. We like to walk in the woods. We don't do a lot of it. It seems like if you can fight the bugs, but other than that, we enjoy it. In the winter we do cross country skiing.

CR: You said that the jobs you do here - it's different - when you putter here it's different than

Star Is

land O

ral H

istory

Proj

ect

Minnes

ota H

istori

cal S

ociet

y

5

the puttering at home. In what way?

FW: Well, I guess there is just so much more to do because you are only here for a short period and things deteriorate and it seems like there's always something to fix or something that needs repair...

CR: But you like to do it better here than at home?

FW: Yes. Well, not that much to do at home, really.

CR: And maybe not enough time.

FW: Yeah, true. There's more time for sure here.

SW: I love it when somebody said - I said this house was built in 1915 and it's in pretty good shape for having been built in 1915 whereas at home a 1915 house would have either been razed or somebody would have had to have redone it. And I said, "Well, if you were frozen 9 months out of the year, you'd be in pretty good shape, too.”

CR: We had carpenter ants but they nearly always die every year.

FW: Everybody has carpenter ants.

CR: What activities did your parents like doing when they were here and your grandparents?

FW: Well, I didn't know my grandparents that much. I don't know. Again, that would be where Bob [Adams] would be able to help you because he was very familiar with that.

SW: Did you know he was a houseboy [to Lucille and Reginald Woodruff]?

CR: Yes.

SW: I never use that expression. It would offend Bob.

FW: My parents. I don't know. I'm trying to think. They didn't do a lot of walking. They enjoyed the boating, I guess, I'd have to say was the big thing. My mother was just meticulous cleaning. She always had something going that way but my father, again, I guess he was puttering around doing fixit jobs. It was more work in those days, I think. You did your own boats. They used to take the boat in and out and put it back in the boathouse and that was like a two-day operation. Things like that.

SW: Your mother swam every single day. I never saw a day she didn't swim. More than any of this generation. I don't know anybody that goes in everyday.

CR: Only one or two. Did she play bridge with other people who were here or did she go into town and get involved in the flower club or did she do any of that?

FW: No. No, she stayed here pretty well. She liked to sew.

Star Is

land O

ral H

istory

Proj

ect

Minnes

ota H

istori

cal S

ociet

y

6

SW: She had company a lot.

CR: Oh, from out of town?

FW: Entertained, yes.

CR: So people from Lincoln came up to stay quite frequently. Would you say that is more than what you would have done?

FW: No. I think we both like that. We like to have our friends up and we do quite a bit of that also.

CR: Did they always have help when they came? Did they bring help from home usually.

FW: Yes.

SW: Well, she had a couple from [unclear] she got girls from.

FW: Well, originally they used to bring a young man and a young girl up to help them and the young man always lived out in back in a separate little building where he stayed and the gal would stay in the back.

SW: This house has a maid's room. Did you know that?

CR: No.

SW: I'll show it to you.

FW: But they always had help. Usually not couples, just individuals.

CR: This is something that's changed since you've been up here.

SW: Oh my, yes.

FW: They always brought them up from home and then she would get some day help locally.

SW: Well, she had Diane from Cass Lake. In fact, Diane once went up to Lincoln and lived with the Battens for a few years.

CR: Oh, really? What did they do about washing in your mother's day? That's one of the reasons they had help obviously.

FW: Well, in my grandparents’ day they used to use the old wringer washing machine because we've got one back there.

SW: Still have it.

FW: Still have it. But, used that and then, of course, in my parents’ time why, we used to go to the laundromat over in town. We always hauled everything.

Star Is

land O

ral H

istory

Proj

ect

Minnes

ota H

istori

cal S

ociet

y

7

CR: Do you think you divide up the jobs between you differently up here than you might do at home?

FW: I don’t think so.

SW: I don't know. Which jobs?

CR: Well, you know, in every place there are tasks or jobs that have to be done - the maintenance, the cooking, the beach raking, the yard work. Do you divide those up differently when you are here than you might if you had the same or similar tasks at home?

FW: We do more yard work up here if you're talking about that than we do at home.

SW: Oh, yeah. At home I don't like it that much. It is either too hot or too cold. I don't do much gardening because we're all up here. I think you will find that with most people that spend the summer. You can't plant much of a garden.

CR: No. It's very frustrating. Do you eat or cook differently when you are here?

SW: Yes.

CR: In what way?

SW: Well, I try different things up here that I don't at home. I don't seem to have the time. I am closer to the kitchen up here than I am around home, don't you think? It's like, you know, what am I going to do this afternoon? Going to read or actually going out and try those two recipes later on which I wouldn't probably bother to do.

CR: What do you think are the most important events that take place here for you during a summer?

FW: Well, they always have a gathering Memorial Day and Labor Day it seems like. Some type of a picnic. The sailboat races. What else can you think of?

SW: They have the club picnic - the social event of the summer.

CR: It maybe that there aren't very many important events that take place. I'm just curious.

FW: Probably not significant.

CR: Significant events to you might not be very significant to someone else. I'm just curious.

FW: We're not really into the water carnival like some of them because our kids aren't participating like some of the kids are.

SW: Well, some years, you know, like social events, is that what you mean? There have been lots of cocktail parties, and here in the last couple of years there really haven't been.

CR: Really? I wonder why that is.

Star Is

land O

ral H

istory

Proj

ect

Minnes

ota H

istori

cal S

ociet

y

8

SW: You know, I think people grow older or things happen and I think it happens to the whole group. It happens to like a neighborhood at home. All of a sudden there will be a young neighborhood and there will be an old neighborhood. I think that's happened. I think we are getting to be an older neighborhood now.

FW: On the south shore.

SW: On the south shore and that will change.

CR: Yeah, I've begun to figure out that it does depend on where you are in the life cycle as to what it is you do here and what it is you enjoy about it.

SW: But this end of the beach will absolutely be the quietest beach because all the owners are older. Well, there are getting to be tiny children around here but there were none.

CR: What are some - now these could be manmade or natural ones, too. What are some of the most important events that you can remember from the past? Things that have happened here that stand out in your mind.

FW: I have to think about that a minute.

SW: I think it was having guests. We used to have three other couples. You know, you think things like that are going on forever and they don't. Because well, the husband is dead now, but, that was to me the most fun - when Lucille would say, "You take the cabin," and we'd take it for a week because they stay all summer if it would [unclear] and the eight of us would be here and we were just very compatible.

FW: Yeah, I can't think of local activities that were fairly significant.

CR: Were you here during the big blowdown?

FW: Yes.

CR: What was that like?

FW: Well, I was pretty young. I just remember them with a sailboat. In those days we buoyed it out and it turned the sailboat over and everybody was out wrestling with that and getting caught in the undertow and all the screaming and hollering going on and I was barely allowed out of the house but just an awfully lot of excitement and then, of course, the next day just the devastation of things being blown down all over everywhere. Trees and all.

CR: You would have been a teenager here in about, well, late '40s, early '50s. Who was the group that you saw most in this time?

FW: Well, the group that I ran around with basically was Sonny Orthwein. There was Corky Peterson when the Petersons had the lodge down there. We were very close to Corky. Francis Flood.

Star Is

land O

ral H

istory

Proj

ect

Minnes

ota H

istori

cal S

ociet

y

9

CR: Did they have a cabin here?

FW: Yes. That was the one that the Dougalls are in now.

CR: Oh, that' s right.

FW: They were all related. There was Francis and Naddy. Lots of girls. As we got older we got more interested, and lots of times...

SW: Vicki Coen.

FW: Vicki Coen. Yeah. There were usually…Sonny and I often had friends up that would stay with us for a month or so in the summer and we always went on canoe trips every summer. We also had a different program. We started off with overnights and then three days and then we went up a week and I think the longest we ever took was a ten day trip.

CR: Really?

FW: But we would have somebody take us somewhere by car and then we'd put in and we'd have a date where they would pick us up. We went all around.

CR: I've seen some pictures of those trips. What other kinds of things? Did you go into town?

FW: Oh, yes. We did an awfully lot of waterskiing. We water skied practically it seemed like ten hours a day back in those days.

SW: There were a pair of water ski is he made. He made [unclear].

FW: Well, it was really before waterskiing started. We were teenagers just as it was getting started. I had a friend at home that decided he was going to get in the water ski business and he kind of pioneered it and I built a pair of ski is with him in his garage. But we built a ski jump. Sonny and I did and so we had the first ski jump and I don't think there's every been one since on Cass Lake that I know of.

CR: Were you part of the group that would entertain after the League meetings? Was there entertainment that the kids put on after the annual meeting?

FW: No. I don't remember ever that.

CR: Ok.

SW: [Unclear]

CR: I think so, too, and he was good, you know, he really was good. It was just a freaky thing. Summertime romances in those days?

FW: Oh, many. Everybody had lots of romances.

CR: Anything flow into fruition? Anybody finally get married?

Star Is

land O

ral H

istory

Proj

ect

Minnes

ota H

istori

cal S

ociet

y

10

FW: No.

CR: No?

FW: None of our group did. No.

CR: What was the type of thing you'd do on a moonlight or a summer romance? Canoe?

FW: No, we didn't do any canoeing. We'd go out in boats and walk up and down and I don't know. We'd go to people's houses and play games. The boys always wanted to show off. There was lots of flips and headstands and things like that to show the girls. Kind of crazy.

CR: Did you go down to the lodge much?

FW: Yes. Yes, we used to use the lodge quite a bit. They had a juke box down there and we used to go down there and dance and a lot of that. Early on…now later on, why, we'd just go to the kids’ houses.

CR: Who are some of the islanders each of you remember most vividly. People who stand out in your mind?

SW: Any age group, you mean?

FW: I'd have to say Chick Orthwein on my side.

CR: Why?

FW: Just because he was such a dynamic person. As a youngster I just looked up to him and respected him and there wasn't anything he couldn't do. He was my ideal.

SW: I vividly remember Florence [Fletcher] Davis which may be obscure. Does anyone else remember her?

CR: Yes. Yes, indeed.

SW: She was what you call a character and I don't think "characters" exist that much anymore. You've got to be a character and some of it had to do with drinking. Nowadays you'd call it an alcoholic but she'd carry straight stuff in one hand and her water in the other and I don't think - I'm not saying - I don't think she was an alcoholic. I don't know. We didn't know what they were but she was a character. Who else was a character?

FW: Well, we never really knew A.J. Starr very well, but, the stories. You'd hear a lot about him. Going way back it was Dr. Thompson. J.E.M. Thompson who was kind of a neat guy and of course back in those days, why, Chick, Chick Orthwein was quite a fisherman. He always was catching a nice big fish. That was, I think, almost... it had to be before the Coens really got going and then later on the Coens came into their own because they were always bringing the big ones in which was quite a treat.

CR: Didn't they ring a bell or something?

Star Is

land O

ral H

istory

Proj

ect

Minnes

ota H

istori

cal S

ociet

y

11

FW: They had a siren on their old boat and used to send that off when they got a muskie. Everybody'd come running down and watch them unload it. It was always quite an occasion.

CR: Do you think people stuck more to this end of the beach?

FW: Oh, definitely. I think so. Well, I know, when we were kids we just didn't...we had a friend over here on the west shore and I just don't hardly remember ever getting over on the east shore and we never...and the only time we ever went to the north shore was when we portaged into Windigo to go fishing.

SW: Nothing…nobody over there.

FW: We used to fish a lot in Windigo.

SW: I don't know if it is pertinent but we almost had the Starrs’ cabin one time.

CR: Oh, really?

SW: Ralph got mad at his family. Did you ever see Ralph Starr?

CR: No, but I've seen pictures.

SW: You missed...W.C. Fields is nothing compared to Ralph Starr. He got mad at his children. I don't know how many children he has. I know Mary. And so he decided that he was going to sell the cabin and so we were down there and that was [unclear]. We could have bought that for $20,000.

FW: $20,000 for the property and another $5,000 for all the furnishings and everything.

SW: And that's where the ball of contention arose because we didn't want to pay him $5,000 and we really didn't have the money anyway, but [unclear].

FW: But I'm glad it worked out the way it did because Mary needed it for sure. Could have been with her.

CR: But that bank is eroding badly down there.

FW: Oh, it's a lot better than it used to be.

CR: Really?

SW: Well, many storms...the high water has done [unclear].

CR: But you can get into the lagoon easily.

FW: Yes.

CR: Just right in. Did you ever go down to Winnie in those days on the canoe trips?

Star Is

land O

ral H

istory

Proj

ect

Minnes

ota H

istori

cal S

ociet

y

12

FW: Yes. Oh, yes. Many times.

CR: Through the meadows and... Any other islanders that stand out in your mind. Special people or unusual people?

SW: Well, the Jesses, Skinny and Clarence. They were wonderful. They were up here with the grandchildren because…that was next door…and their children now, Bill and Charlene would stay and run the business. And they'd be up here with all three grandchildren. I can still remember seeing him walk down to the lodge with one of the grandchildren on his shoulders and Clara kind of trailing along. I always thought they were [unclear]. I can say that. That's the kind of person she was. I'm sorry. Your mother just did and we just adored him.

FW: I think Harry Flansburg, he was always [unclear], too.

CR: People have said that that was the case. Outside the family members in the cottage, who are the people that you spend the most time with or feel closest to?

FW: Today? Well, I guess you'd have to say Tish Haecker because when I'm not around she's with her a lot.

SW: We used to never see her at home. We lived in the same town and we...well, she's twenty years older, of course, so just not that close.

FW: Then you see, when my sister was coming, we saw more of her than we ever did at home, too. Just gravitated that way. But, as you go down the beach I'd have to say the Burtons, Wintermotes, certainly the Wheelocks. That's probably about it, isn't it?

CR: What kinds of things do you like to do with these people when you're with them? What kinds of activities?

FW: Well, currently play Trivial Pursuit. Sydna plays games with Tish. You play games by the hour.

CR: What kinds of games?

SW: We play one called My Word. Have you ever played Master Mind?

CR: No.

SW: Well, My Word is...is a word game and it's fascinating. You'd love it. You pick out five letter...six letter words and then by powers of deduction...she picks one and I pick one. I figure out what her word is and she figures out what mine is. I can't explain it other than that. We spend too much time doing that which we never would at home and that's part of summer living is that you don't care if you've wasted the whole day.

FW: We used to play a lot of card games. We don't do that much anymore. Used to get together every day and play a lot of cards.

Star Is

land O

ral H

istory

Proj

ect

Minnes

ota H

istori

cal S

ociet

y

13

SW: Poker.

CR: I even played dominos with the Wheelocks. I haven't played dominos in twenty years. Can you identify informal groups of people who do things together here? Do you think there are groups?

FW: There is only one group that I know of that does something regular and that's the Meekses and the Hineses and that group. They seem to get together practically every night.

SW: They used to...I don't know if they do anymore, but they ate every night together. Oh, I think sometimes neighbors and that's kind of fun because you have whole different generations. I know the Burtons and Jr. and Jackie...and I think it's delightful because at home you don't have a lot of friends [unclear] and that's a way of life.

FW: I think one thing that's kind of significant that's happened here the last few years is that we've gotten together in Kansas City and Minneapolis and Lincoln and I think that's been a wonderful experience. I so enjoyed...seeing people outside of the island surroundings. And that's a first. Groups have I done it, you know, one or two couples, but as far as a gathering, I've never seen that.

SW: It’s Minneapolis’s turn again. Unless we can convince Des Moines that there's enough of them in Des Moines, but I [unclear].

CR: Yes, it is our turn again.

SW: But Des Moines is almost even better because it is more centrally located.

CR: It would be fun. Would you say that this place is a community?

FW: Yeah, I think so.

[End of side one]

FW: Why are we a community?

CR: Yes.

FW: I don't know. I just think we all have so much in common because of the island and because of what we have is such a special place, I think. I think most people appreciate it.

SW: [Unclear]

FW: I don't think we really have a...currently have a cause. We're a little divided which disturbs me. We have the property owners and those who are leasing and I think sometimes we have two diverse interests which frustrates me a little bit because this is my greatest hang-up is the problem that I feel we are having from the government. I think there is a great degree...I don't mean to get on my soapbox but I think there is a great degree of different feelings on that particular subject. Some people could care less that are on government land and some people like

Star Is

land O

ral H

istory

Proj

ect

Minnes

ota H

istori

cal S

ociet

y

14

myself care immensely and I guess it's because I feel very threatened. I think if anything ever happened I think that everybody would pull together but I hope that doesn't have to happen.

CR: Any other reasons why you think this is a community or isn't?

FW: Everything in common. I mean we are all...I guess with the lake and all.

SW: That's really true. I don't think...there’s one time when I know somebody to be isolated. Can I say who it was, who it is.

CR: Well, I can turn it off for a minute.

[Break in tape]

FW: For whatever reason it was, hook or crook, why...

CR: They couldn't come during the war.

FW: That's right. A certain group always managed it.

CR: Yes. They managed to find the gas. Lots of people came on the train then, too which must have been hard because those trains were crowded in those days.

FW: I never rode on the train up here.

CR: Really?

FW: Never did. We always came by car.

CR: You can't have 76 households, and we've touched on this a little bit but you can't have 76 households and probably 300 people when most of the households are occupied like they are in July, without having some kinds of conflicts arise. What do you think some of the conflicts are about and how do you think they are solved in a small place like this?

FW: Is the recorder on?

CR: Yes. I'm looking at this generically, you know, if we had conflicts over racing.

FW: Sailboat racing has to be the largest conflict lately for whatever reason but I don't remember conflicts in the old days. I suppose there were conflicts. Conflicts were more family.

CR: Could be. That's true. Nobody has said that and it has to be when you have a family living close...

FW: Oh, well, we've had a whole lot of family and they've had some conflicts but it's family conflict. I would have to say another thing from the standpoint of conflict over the past as I remember it. Probably the biggest single cause for conflict is animals…dogs, pets. That has been a sore point because there have been bad dogs and good dogs that run loose and create problems and what have you more so perhaps when they had garbage pits and things like that.

Star Is

land O

ral H

istory

Proj

ect

Minnes

ota H

istori

cal S

ociet

y

15

SW: Why are people better than they used to be. I don't think... it's nothing...we have friends come up to visit that call the place, “This is not Star Island, this is Dog Island.” Ray Davis would bring up a female in heat. That kind of thing. And the dog fights. You never see a good dog fight when we did when we were growing up.

CR: I don't know. Maybe that's part of the getting older, too. I don't know.

SW: No, but when you have to, you know, keep your dog penned up and I guess we don't let our dogs run up here. We do not.

CR: So, maybe the changing situation in cities in terms of pets has affected the way we are up here, too.

SW: Oh, that just made us all more responsible. I don't feel like I have got to bring my dog up here so they can go running around. That was your right.

FW: Well, everybody thought, you know, an island, the dog isn't going to get hit by a car so first thing they'd turn the dog loose. You've got dogs roaming around here just raising all sorts of problems.

SW: Yes. Morrie lost his virginity.

CR: We had a dog once...a corgi once who used to run people into the water when they'd come by our cottage. His way of herding. When there are problems to be solved which affect most of the residents such as garbage disposal this year or voting concerns or other types of issues that we've had to deal with, how do you think things get done around here.

FW: You’re talking about to a group.

CR: Yes.

FW: Oh, ok. I was thinking of it personally more.

CR: Well, it may only get solved personally. I don't know.

FW: I guess when you were talking about problems, the problem that I relate to, that I consider problems are trying to get something done. Somebody to do something whether putting your dock in or repair this or repair that, paint your house, put a roof on that kind of thing I was relating to.

CR: Ok, but how about problems that affect us all or issues with the forest reserve.

FW: I think we kind of have to be forestry issues and break-in issues, which I have become very involved in on the break-in thing just because we have been broken into so much.

CR: So do think just a group of a few people get together to solve problems like that when we've got them or do you think it 's an island effort or how do you think things get done here.

FW: My experience on the south shore when we put our south shore thing together everybody

Star Is

land O

ral H

istory

Proj

ect

Minnes

ota H

istori

cal S

ociet

y

16

was terribly cooperative. I was amazed because we are still functioning. I don't know how much longer it's going to go on but we still have that where we have our separate caretaker and are paying him. Really I have had...I won't say it's been the easiest raised funds for but never had more had more cooperation on a thing like that.

CR: Suppose you hadn't taken the leadership in that, do you think anybody else would have?

FW: I don't know.

SW: No. I can tell you. We got pooh-poohed. We got told that we would offend the Indians. They already offended us by breaking in three times but we were going to offend them if we hired a caretaker.

CR: That was...other residents said that?

SW: Somebody who hadn't been here very long said that. On this front porch.

FW: It's unique when you consider the amount of years that people have been coming up here and the lack of problems we've had until just the last year. It's really significant. Something had to have changed socially somewhere with the Indian population. Course they always talk about it used to be kind of a bad medicine type place [unclear] Windigo and all that but this generation certainly isn't afraid of anything like that.

SW: But the sheriff nicely said to us after the first break in, he said, "Well, you've just been broken in once every sixty years." So, we thought, ok once in sixty years. Well then, the next year it was twice in two years and that was...

FW: I think those have to be the most, in my way of thinking, the two most, the biggest problems.

CR: The breaking in and what was the second one?

FW: The forestry.

CR: The forestry…what the future is going to bring…

FW: Actually, we don't have a problem with the rules and regulations, the color you paint your house, this and that. I don't have a major problem with that. In fact, we like some of the things they've done at this end of the beach. They spread people out a little bit more. You have more privacy and that part of it has not been all bad. But, I think when you look at it realistically, it's just the future that everybody's up in...that I'm concerned about. I think you should say here, because I think it's very valid, how you feel about the forestry and your philosophy on the best use for the most or whatever...

SW: [Unclear]

CR: Yes it is because if we take a moment frozen in time and say, "How are we in 1985?”

Star Is

land O

ral H

istory

Proj

ect

Minnes

ota H

istori

cal S

ociet

y

17

SW: Then we feel that we are jeopardized [unclear] and when I wrote them in response to their five-year plan. [Unclear] How could they say five-year plan - make it a four-year or a six-year or a ten-year. We don't need a five-year plan but I did say...they kept saying over and over again that the best and the what? What's the word? It sounds like the best and the most use. I mean, that's the whole philosophy. But, to me those two words don't go together.

CR: From an ecological sense?

SW: From an ecological standpoint you can't have the most use at the same time. Well, I'll read you my letter I got back from them.

CR: We never got a response from them.

SW: I got a nice...in fact, I even accused them of being authoritarian...he didn't like that.

FW: He wrote a little hot letter.

SW: So I will get the letter and show it to you later but he did say that they really...if we burn down or fall into the lake that's it. Now that wasn't just a proposal. It's what they really want.

CR: Again, if you have this many people living on this five square mile or however large we are space, there's lots of information which passes around even gossip. How do you think information travels so fast in this place and what do you think we talk about?

FW: I can't speak to that very well.

SW: That's hard, you know, because most people don't like to believe they gossip anyway. You're not getting a lot of people saying, "Oh, yes, I love gossip."

CR: No. That's right.

SW: So we all kind of act like, well, we never do it. I don't know how you’ve been getting honest things about that.

CR: Ok.

SW: We do hear a lot about people.

FW: That's more illnesses and things like that than anything.

CR: News about people's children.

SW: Yes. And I guess we talk more about it up here because we catch up all the time. At home I usually know what's going on all year long with friends and up here I don't know what's happened to somebody for a whole year. Other than that I don't know about scandal or that kind of thing.

CR: One of my professors who has been following this study said, "Gosh, places like that and all those summer people - they must be a regular little Peyton Place."

Star Is

land O

ral H

istory

Proj

ect

Minnes

ota H

istori

cal S

ociet

y

18

SW: [Unclear] some married women and there's a lot of...were more so before, a lot of women up here alone, but I have never known...you just missed it when somebody was carrying on with...

CR: Well, I thought the answer to that may be that there are so many women here alone, how could it happen? It would be rather difficult. But I thought that was interesting. Then I decided we were very middle class, too.

FW: One thing that I think maybe has changed a little bit is the advent of the telephone...not that the telephone is all that new, but I think people do spend a lot more time on the telephone than they used to talking back and forth between each other. It always used to be in person. It seems like more people using the phones.

CR: That's a good point and nobody has mentioned that in a way that information spreads from one shore to another. Can you identify any community leaders? Now or in the past.

FW: I'm going to have to say Chick is my feeling.

SW: I think he has got to be it really because most people weren't interested in leading anyway. It was a vacation.

FW: I think Bob Adams is a very strong person.

SW: Yeah.

FW: He takes charge. But I don't know of anybody on this shore today. You've got a lot of individuals but as far as leaders, I don't see anybody. I think you have people....the thing that is significant, it seems to me, you have so many individuals. I think of people that just want to do their own thing like Rodger McBride, like Bob Burton and people who actually work at away from being a part of something and really want to do their own thing, it seems more individualist to me as far as the group thing.

SW: Bob Burton and I have threatened to blow up the sidewalk. How many places have a sidewalk?

CR: Do you think it would be more rustic if you didn't have the sidewalks?

SW: Oh, yes.

FW: We'd get a lot less traffic.

SW: We get traffic. You know, people are jogging and are taking their morning walk and I'm sitting here in my nightgown and saying, "Hi." Wouldn't it be nice to have a road out behind...because we've visited other [unclear] they have, too, lots of other places and I don't know any sidewalk, do you? In all of Minnesota. And, of course, you've got it all, too, then which you didn't have to have all those people trotting across the front of your cabin.

CR: No.

Star Is

land O

ral H

istory

Proj

ect

Minnes

ota H

istori

cal S

ociet

y

19

SW: But it just went along. They could have gone back in the woods, but no...

FW: Too many bugs in the woods.

CR: That could be. I wonder when the sidewalk was put in. Do you know that?

SW: Right away. This sidewalk it says...we know it's 1915 because it's marked.

CR: Ok. Good. When you said that a couple of the people that we were talking about earlier and others have been characters, you implied maybe that there aren't characters now but someone has said to me that anybody that lives in a place like this that we all must be characters to some degree.

FW: Maybe because we're all characters today but I don't see characters like there used to be characters.

CR: People that really seemed unusual and a little eccentric.

FW: I don't see that. I guess if you have to...the nearest character that I can think of right now is my cousin, Letitia, she's kind of a character in that she's kind of her own person. She comes and goes, you know, and Houghton’s mother [Lillian Lohn]. Some of those kind of people but I think the characters are kind of melting in. There doesn't seem to be many characters anymore.

CR: Sort of tame. How have you fit your time here into your work roles at home? Has it made any difference in the career you chose or the things you...the way you structure your work?

FW: Well, it hasn't for me. I just adjust for it.

CR: Has coming to this place made any difference in your lifestyle at home?

SW: Well, we're gone...I'm gone for nine weeks at a time. Lincoln is so miserable in the summer anyway that a lot of people are gone or there isn't that much summer activity. You can't even play golf a lot of the time.

CR: You haven't taken something home from here that is some sort of feeling about the wilderness that has affected your choice to live in the country.

SW: Oh, yeah, that definitely.

FW: I would say that that probably is significant. It probably did affect us on moving to the country. We moved to the country about 12 years ago. Not really in the country, but out on three acres.

SW: I think it did because I got to the point that I could not understand people living in the city wanting to live 16 feet from their neighbor and I think it was being out here because I was always a city girl and you were. And, all of a sudden, it was like ah, ah. I don't know if that applies to a lot of people [unclear].

FW: I think we have become more appreciative of wildlife and things like that as maybe a result

Star Is

land O

ral H

istory

Proj

ect

Minnes

ota H

istori

cal S

ociet

y

20

of being up here. Maybe it's age, I don't know - whether it’s birds or waterfowl or whatever.

CR: Do you socialize differently here than you do at home?

SW: Yes.

CR: In what way?

SW: Just more casual and I don't care as much. You don't care at all at home anyway but somebody has to do it...keep things going. Up here if somebody says, "Let's go out to dinner," that's fine and if somebody doesn't say, "Let's go out to dinner," that's fine, too.

FW: We find ourselves going out to dinner more now than we used to.

SW: Well, there are more places to go that are close by.

CR: Here you do that.

FW: It used to be in the old days you went out on Saturday night. You went to the Turtle River Club or Jack's or somewhere and that's all you every did.

CR: That's a long ways to the Turtle River Club isn't it? Or, did you go by boat?

FW: Oh, no.

CR: Went to town and...

SW: It was a long way.

CR: Where was Jack's?

FW: Jack's out...you go out past the airport in Bemidji and keep on going there.

SW: [Unclear]. It's quite a ways out there, too, but there no place around here. Did anyone talk to you about the old bars around here.

CR: No.

SW: What was it? The Red Rooster.

FW: Red Rooster. They haven't, really?

CR: No.

FW: Oh, that was a whole ‘nother world because that was back...well, more my sister now being she was ten years older than I was but certainly Letitia and people like that because that was what they used to do. That was their nightlife back in those days.

SW: They were road houses I guess you'd call them.

Star Is

land O

ral H

istory

Proj

ect

Minnes

ota H

istori

cal S

ociet

y

21

FW: They were road houses.

SW: And there were two or three of them. One was on the old road to Bemidji a little ways up and one was...Walker...

FW: South. Greengrove. But they used to have gambling...they used to have slot machines in the Red Rooster.

CR: Good heavens! So this would have been in the early forties or something like that.

FW: Yes.

CR: I guess I do remember places like that in northern Minnesota.

FW: The road house is a good definition.

CR: How often would they go to these things?

FW: Oh, I think just on Saturday nights most times...just weekends. But it was pretty popular and they stayed quite late and had much fun.

CR: And came back across the lake.

FW: Yes.

SW: Oh, my, yes.

CR: Somebody said to me that they thought social life in…

[Interrupted by phone]

CR: Do you think you socialize with different kinds of people here than you do at home.

FW: I don't think so.

SW: I think so.

CR: Do you? How?

SW: I socialize with some people that I don't like up here. Not don't like but wouldn't put up with at home.

CR: Might not choose at home. Just because they're here?

SW: Yes. Because they are part of the community and because we wouldn’t...somebody says so-and-so's going and...so we do. That's ok, too.

CR: Well, the other thing that was interesting about something you said earlier was that you thought that one of the things about this place was that it was intergenerational and I wonder if

Star Is

land O

ral H

istory

Proj

ect

Minnes

ota H

istori

cal S

ociet

y

22

we do that...I don't know...do you do that? Is your social group at home intergenerational?

FW: More so as you get older I think that comes with age.

CR: Could be.

SW: But, no. Most of our close friends are our age. Because, well, like [unclear] but we don't socialize with his lumber business but you're in a [unclear] community that you would meet people and get to know them. We just don't. We have friends that [unclear] usually, close friends.

CR: But I do think it does depend on people. Interestingly we tend not to fraternize with lawyers. [Unclear] people in other occupations. I think probably by choice, though, neither one of us have ever talked about that. When you've been up here on your own for long periods of times…What's that like? How do you manage.

SW: It was great when the kids were young because that was the reason for it. You know, there was always somebody around to help if you needed it. We're getting kind of isolated. The Millers are not ever here and there was a point on this end of beach there was no man at all. There was Suzanne and there was [unclear] and there Lillian Lohn and there was Tish and there was me and then there would be somebody for her to work. So, but now that the children, I said this summer, I am not going to do that again. Foster was gone for two weeks and I just didn't see any reason for being here. I think a lot of women are not doing what they used to do.

CR: That's a large statement in many ways.

SW: Well, just plunking down and saying, "Now here's my summer. I'm just going to sit here." I don't think it's worked out for some marriages. I know...I think your sister's marriage was partially destroyed by her being here all summer and him not.

CR: I think it could be hard. What was it like...was your mother up here by herself?

FW: Oh, yes. A lot.

CR: Without her husband for a long period of time? But she had help with her. That made a difference probably on the way she carried.

FW: She was very self-sufficient. She wasn't very sociable. She didn't chum around a whole lot. Different days going to town getting groceries.

SW: She could drive that Chris-Craft. I won't drive it. She could drive it.

CR: Yes. I'm hearing about this generation...you know, you think that we're the liberated group. I'm hearing about a generation of very strong women up here. Your mother's era and Florence Davis, Mary Caswell, the whole crew down there who had a great time.

SW: You're right. And they did. They drove the boats. I know Pricilla Meeks does not drive a boat.

Star Is

land O

ral H

istory

Proj

ect

Minnes

ota H

istori

cal S

ociet

y

23

FW: Letitia drives a boat, I mean, what is she? She’s 74.

SW: She's a maniac. She doesn't look where she's going.

FW: She gets in and out of the boat. She's slowing down a little now but, I mean, she's very independent. She's had to be.

CR: Did you know Aldine Kenworthy on the east side in the pagoda. She drove a small fishing boat all the years that I knew her. I asked her once...because she'd be out in all kinds of weather like Tish...she had a little farther to go and she said, "Well, I just steer by the radio tower and then I turn left."

SW: You're right. I think the point about liberated women, I mean, but maybe still fragile and don't have to be able to everything that those ladies did.

CR: You could probably go anywhere in the country for a vacation and probably have. Why do you come back here year after year.

FW: I think the significant answer to that, and I've thought about this quite bit, you've got to stop and realize that this has been my home for 54 years. We've had many homes in Lincoln. We've moved and moved and moved but this is kind of more roots to me than Lincoln, Nebraska is. I look at this...it's almost a religion to me. It really is.

SW: You must have thought.

FW: Well, I have. Again, I'm not a real religious person but I feel closer to God up here from a religious standpoint. I'm a different person up here. I feel like I'm in touch as opposed to being home. This is peace. I don't know. There is just a little something up here that's different. I mean that. I would actually fight to the death. That's the way I feel about it.

CR: You know, it comes through in the Loon in the '40s. I've got all the Loon issues from 1937 on. Some of the boys who were away fighting...it's clear that this is the place that they were fighting for as much as anyplace. When they thought of America this is it. Interesting.

FW: Did they start the Loon in '37.

CR: '37. There may have been earlier sort of news sheets but that seems to be the first one that everybody got.

FW: I think that's significant because you do...you have...these are your roots. That's your home. You marry, your family changes, you change houses, you do all those things at home but you don't change up here.

CR: I think it's significant, too. What about you? What makes this place special to you. Why do you come back?

SW: Well, this particular place because you don't have somebody driving up and saying, "How are you today?" Then I think that makes all the difference in the world. I mean, if somebody

Star Is

land O

ral H

istory

Proj

ect

Minnes

ota H

istori

cal S

ociet

y

24

walks by that's one thing but you don't have to plan a special trip to your cabin and dropping in on you. I think we love that, don't we? Because if they want to come, they call you and that's what I mean with all that. So the island part of it really does. Other than that, the Minnesota part of it does. I know my cousin says the mosquitoes are big enough to carry you away. He likes Colorado. So, the Minnesota part because we love the water. The mountains are fine. Because they're there. But, the Minnesota part because we like the water and the island part because we love the solitude.

CR: Is there anything else that you think I should know about the place or the people or the way we live or have lived that would be significant to history?

SW: We should have studied these questions.

CR: It's better to do this spontaneously.

FW: No. I see a difference it seems like to me in the way things are today. Could you restate that?

CR: Is there anything else that you think I should know about the people or the place or the way we live today that would be important in the recounting of the history of this place.

FW: You have any ideas, Honey?

SW: No. I was thinking about the renters. I don't know if anybody has ever told you there were a lot of renters on the south shore.

CR: Used to be?

SW: Used to be. There are none as far as I know now. But, during the war, Suzanne's cabin...they were off serving and their cabin was always rented and those people kind of came and went and affected our lives and some of them like the Smiths. There were new people whereas now there aren't.

CR: That is significant. So we haven't really had a huge influx of new people for a long time.

SW: No. Lillian always rented. Lillian Lohn's cabin was always rented and she lived in the Hagna cabin, right?

FW: Right. By the same people though.

SW: No. The Smiths, the Bentrups were in it for many years. I don't know. You'll have to get that from those people but they came up here and didn't have a place and just waited to see what they could get or rented at the lodge.

CR: Lots of people have talked about the fact that friends would come and stay at the little cabins at the lodge and then you could have them but not. have to have them with you all the time. That that made a big difference. And people talk about the same families that came back year after year to the lodge and the children knowing that certain weeks such and such a child

Star Is

land O

ral H

istory

Proj

ect

Minnes

ota H

istori

cal S

ociet

y

25

will be here to play with.

FW: You're talking about the lodge. I think the lodge is the most significant thing, the most significant change in my lifetime that I can remember that has affected our lives. Things we used to do down there. We lived down there. That was just the hub. That's were all the action was.

[End of side two]

SW: [Unclear]

FW: We don't have one of those, though. Everybody's got four or five boats today.

CR: That's a big change. So the marina has changed as boating has increased in the lake. But we still are extremely dependent on the family.

FW: Totally. And, that's scary.

CR: Yes, it is.

SW: It will always work out.

CR: So far.

SW: One of our favorite remarks and I suppose this applies at home, too. I'll say...and I guess this is because Foster says this is his roots...but I'll say, "Why do we do that?" and he'll say, "I don't know. I think it's because we've always done that."

FW: Well, we didn't answer your last question very good and I'm good at that but I feel like there should be some answers to that.

CR: Well, you may think of some before you see me again.

SW: How do you [unclear]?

[End]

Star Is

land O

ral H

istory

Proj

ect

Minnes

ota H

istori

cal S

ociet

y