st. peter the aleut did not exist (fr. oliver herbel)
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St. Peter the Aleut Did Not Exist
Fr. Oliver Herbel
Posted on January 27, 2011 by frontierorthodoxy| 45 Comments
Also see: htt:!!orthodoxhistory"or#!2011!01!$1!is%the%st%eter%the%aleut%story%true!
&his is another one of those osts that 'ill (on)ure u *uite a bit from eole on both sides" +air enou#h"
am #oin# to sare -.C/As site that debate" &hose of you 'ho 'ish to (asti#ate me for histori(al
honesty may do so here"
-t" Peter the Aleut did not exist, thou#h he does no' exist as a ious fi#ment in some ima#inations, mu(h
as saints onday, &uesday, and ednesday, on(e existed in some 3oman Catholi( ima#inations before
bein# remoed from the 3oman Catholi( (alendar" &hese thin#s haen" dont no' if 'e .rthodox'ill eer remoe him from the (alendar 6for 'e often refer head in the sand8 to histori(al re(ord89 but
'e should (onsider doin# so" At bestat absolute, extremely unliely best, he might hae existed" &hats
not mu(h of a reason to (anoni;e someone and dont thin he een existed at all"
-o, 'hy do (laim that he didnt exist 6and most (ertainly that he 'as not martyred9< ell, first, am not
a'are of any lo(al, Alasan oral history" &here should hae been an oral tradition" .ral traditions
amon#st =atie Alasans should be listened to and seriously (onsidered, but to the best of my no'led#e,
there 'ere none" 3elatedly, hae you eer noti(ed that +r" i(hael .lesas boo Orthodox Alaska does
not mention Peter< +r" i(hael reeres oral tradition and used it aroriately for -t" Juenaly" &hat is to
say, any oral history8 that no' mi#ht exist, exists on the basis of the flimsy a((ount ll mention in a bit"
&he a((ount is not #rounded in a rior ious oral tradition, unless you (onsider hearsay oral tradition"
-e(ond, there is no (orroboratin# a((ounts of -anish%3ussian iolen(e in California around this time"
=or are there no a((ounts of torturin# =aties to death until they (onerted to 3oman Catholi(ism in
California around this time" &his maes the a((ount hi#hly unusual" >nusual thin#s haen, but almost
al'ays in unusual (ir(umstan(es" &here are no (ir(umstan(es that )um out as bein# unusual at this time
61?159 in this re#ard"
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&hird, the eiden(e 'e (an obtain from the 3oman Catholi( side at the time (ontradi(ts su(h notions" n a
June 1@, 1?1 letter in 'hi(h +r" Jose -enan sends alon# =atie Alasan risoners to -anta Barbara, +r"
Jose 'rote that he (annot understand 'hat they sea, that theres no reason to ress for batism, but that
they may re(eie batism if that suits -anta Barbaras needs and the =aties so desire" &his letter is also
ery imortant be(ause this is an inside 3C leader to 3C leader8 rimary sour(e, if you 'ill" &here is no
reason for +r" Jose to #loss anythin# or lie" &heres no motiation for that" &he only motiation is to #iean honest tae on thin#s and state 'hat he beliees ou#ht to be the oli(y" &hat maes this ie(e hi#hly
imortant"
+ourth, there is no eiden(e of 'hi(h am a'are that indi(ates the friars of the -anish mission 'ere
fluent in Alasan lan#ua#es and, in fa(t, the letter )ust noted indi(ated that lin#uisti( diffi(ulties
abounded" et, suosedly, there 'as an entire ex(han#e bet'een Peter and his erse(utors"
As for the a((ount itself, it is hi#hly suse(t" &he first a((ount 'e hae is from -emen anoi(h
anosii in 1?20" &his a((ount is already #ien as a se(ond hand a((ount" By the end of his life, there
'ere three ersions" &he referen(e to the -anish erse(utors be(omes Jesuits, 'ho 'ere not een a(tie
'ithin California durin# that time" +urthermore, anosii 'ould (ertainly be 'illin# to beliee the reort#ien to him by r" Duso be(ause the tensions oer furs bet'een the 3ussians and -anish had
e(onomi( imortan(e" Additionally, to blame Jesuits fit anti%Jesuit 3ussian sentiments" lay aside
'hether anosii or Duso or both are to blame here" &o me, that doesnt really matter" hat matters
is that there is an a#enda here and the rimary sour(e and histori(al (ontext that 'e do hae does not in
any 'ay suort this a#enda" &he only histori(al suort that (an be #ien is that naties 'ere taen and
then sent to -anta Barbara and that -anish and 3ussians 'ere both (ometin# e(onomi(ally for furs"
&hat hardly suorts alle#ations of minor 'arfare and detailed torture 6remoal of fin#ers and
disembo'elment9 as 'e find in the story of Peter the Aleut" ndeed, theres no other re(ord of this Aleut
hain# eer existed outside of r" Dusos reort that anosii i(ed u"
y o'n se(ulation is the r" Duso adoted and #reatly distorted the story of an earlier eisode 'herea 3oman Catholi(!exi(an soldier had illed a =atie Ameri(an (hief and the exi(an army had to *uell
a lo(al reolt from that arti(ular tribe" (annot roe this, but my #uess is that somethin# lie that mi#ht
hae haened" Anyho', somethin# alon# these lines haened een if my exa(t se(ulation isnt
entirely (orre(t" &his, by the 'ay, 'ould fit 'hy other details of the story dont add usu(h as the
#eo#rahi(al ones, 'hi(h are (onfused" 3eally, eole, nothin# adds u"
ou 'ont find any of this on .rthodox ii or een iiedia, but dont let that fool you" &hat )ust
means the site hasnt been edited a((ordin#ly" ou 'ont find this oenly dis(ussed in many la(es" &hat
ou#ht not to surrise us, either" .rthodox hate eatin# a ie(e of humble ie 6thou#h 'ee been fastin#
from it for (enturies9" Eatin# humble ie often (omes 'ith e## on the fa(e and 'e )ust dont lie that" t
maes us too un(omfortable and (ertainly 'ont allo' us that final a(t of errant imerialismutili;in# the =atie Alasan to foster our o'n reli#ious ride"
Fod #rant that some day, some 'ay, 'e reali;e that 'hen one fasts in humility, humble ie is the sour(e
of life" And e## in the fa(e< t )ust mi#ht heal ones blindness"
&his entry 'as osted in Ameri(an .rthodoxy, /istori(al ethod, >n(ate#ori;ed and ta##ed Alasa"
3ussian .rthodox ission, +t" 3oss, martyrdom, Peter the Aleut" Boomar the ermalin "
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G /ere 'e #o A#ain
Hie
Be the first to lie this ost"
45 Responses to St. Peter the Aleut Did Not Exist
1" Peter T. | January 27, 2011 at :2 am | 3ely
/ae you had a (han(e to inesti#ate the trans(rit of the 1?1@ eye'itness testimony that is said to hae
been in(luded 'ith the anosys 1?20 reort to -t" Petersbur#< t is suosed to hae been ublished in
the first olume of the 3ussian (olle(tion Russia in California 6ed" by J" Fibson, A" stomin, I" &isho
20059, 'ith a lanned En#lish translation to follo'" But (ant find any indi(ation that the En#lish
translation has aeared, and dont read 3ussian"
Also, ho' do you no' there is no oral tradition about Peter< /ae you soen 'ith +r" i(hael about
this or 'hy his boo doesnt mention him<
6es, Peter the Aleut is my atron, but m oen to 'hateer the truth mi#ht be about his existen(e"9
frontierorthodoxy | January 27, 2011 at ?:57 am | 3ely
&his is a #ood oint" r" Dusos testimony is really a re(ordin# of the testimony of another =atie" At
least, it alle#edly is" >nfortunately, hae not yet read this" t (an be ur(hased here but at K70 m not in
the mood to do this:htt:!!'''"fortrossinterretie"or#!museumboostore"h
haent yet tried HH" robably should" >ltimately, thou#h, unless theres somethin# of 'hi(h m not
yet a'are, there is nothin# to substantiate it, mu(h to *uestion it, and at least one internal 3oman Catholi(
letter that (ontradi(ts it" &hats not a #ood reason to a((et it and (ertainly not a #ood reason to (anoni;e
the main erson in the story"
frontierorthodoxy | January 27, 2011 at @:02 am | 3ely
As for oral tradition, e simly said m not a'are of any" As for +r" i(hael, it mi#ht be 'orth'hile tonote that he 'as (onsulted for 3aymond A" Bu(os -t" Peter the Aleut
-a(red (on and the (ono#rahy of Iiolen(e8 in &he Contexts of 3eli#ion and Iiolen(e, ed" by 3onald
A" -imins" Bu(o doesnt a((et the story for the same reasons e #ien and it is Bu(o uon 'hom
rely for the text of the internal 3oman Catholi( letter" LMm simly not 'ritin# an arti(le here, and Mm
'illin# to rely a little more on reliable se(ondary sour(es for a blo# ost sometimes"N f +r" i(hael
ob)e(ted, that 'ould hae been the time to say somethin#" (ould be 'ron#, of (ourse, as haent
emailed to as him" dont no' his ersonal belief" All no' is he hasnt made a stin in faor of the
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Peter the Aleut story 'hen #ien the (han(e and 'hen 'ritin# his history of .rthodoxy in Alasa" find
that si#nifi(ant"
Peter T. | January 27, 2011 at @:4@ am |
+or 'hat its 'orth, Bu(os arti(le is aailable online" e found it to be a ery helful resour(e,
ese(ially if one doesnt hae a((ess to a #ood a(ademi( library to tra( do'n sour(es"
frontierorthodoxy | January 27, 2011 at @:52 am |
.h, than youO didnt reali;e it 'as online" &hats #reatO /e handles eerythin# masterfully and thin
readers 'ill noti(e that he and are on the same a#e 'ith re#ard to this story, thou#h haent ado(ated
for his tae on reli#ion and iolen(e and su(h" &hat an#le d hae to thin about some more but (learly
there 'as an a#enda at 'or in the deeloment of the Peter the Aleut story"
2" readerjohn | January 27, 2011 at :$4 am | 3ely
&han you not only for uttin# your thesis out there, but tellin# us 'hy" nasmu(h as this ious fi#ment
fuels any anti%3oman Catholi( feelin#s 6and it does m Exhibit A9, and the eiden(e is still relatiely
aailable, it behooes us to eat our humble ie and moe on" )ust hoe my #rand(hildren dont as me
about 'hos that one<8 in our i(on of the -ynaxis of the -aints of =orth Ameri(a at least not 'hen
theyre youn#"
ts odd and thou#ht%rooin#, ho'eer, that should read this 'ithin an hour after readin# a
hrefQRhtt:!!rea(hersinstitute"(om!2011!01!27!orthodox%'orshi%as%a%s(hool%of%theolo#y%art%
three!S*uot titleQRPart $ of etroolitan /ilarionMs R.rthodox orshi as a -(hool of &heolo#yR
melxiopp | January 27, 2011 at 10:1 am | 3ely
/ere is a tiny url to etroolitan /ilarion Alfeyes .rthodox orshi As A -(hool .f &heolo#y: Part
&hree8 referen(ed by reader)ohn:
htt:!!f'd4"me!uT(
$" readerjohn | January 27, 2011 at :$4 am | 3ely
-orry for the bad html use" tried"
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4" Fr. Stephen Lourie | January 27, 2011 at 10:02 am | 3ely
=i(ely done +r" and thans for this"
.ne (omment!*uestion re#ardin# the la( of =atie oral history"
ima#ine that if this had a(tually haened, maybe throu#h a translator, then the martyrdom ne's 'ould
hae eentually rea(hed Alasa" But is the la( of oral history in Alasa due to the lo(ation of the alle#ed
martyrdom, California<
/ain# read this am only a little sho(ed and neer really bou#ht the story totally, )ust ut it alon#side
some other saint stories that are ahistori(al, su(h as -t" Feor#e slayin# an a(tual dra#on in -yria"
5" Sarina | January 27, 2011 at 10:17 am | 3ely
/o' (ould one say -t" Peter &he Aleut didnt exist< Een the de(idedly se(ular 1@th Century historian/ubert /o'e Ban(roft a(no'led#ed the in(ident, een thou#h he doesnt mention Peter by name" f
anyone no's about Ban(roft, then they no' he 'as a ra(ist 'ho had ery little symathy for either
-aniards, Catholi(s or ndi#eneous eoleUso the fa(t that he mentioned the in(ident and a((usations
should tell us that 'here there is smoe there is usually fire" Also 'hy 'ould a 3EAH .rthodox Christian
riest 'ant to dis(redit a saint to be#in 'ith< -hamefulO
frontierorthodoxy | January 27, 2011 at 10:2? am | 3ely
-e(ular historians mae mistaes all the time" =ote the reious ost" -ometimes, they re'rite history" -o
Ban(roft didnt di# into this" &hat in itself doesnt mae a (ase"
m 'illin# to be 'ron#" -tart sho'in# some (orroboratin# eiden(e from rimary sour(es and ll
re(onsider my osition" -hameful is lyin# and bein# triumhalisti(" >nfortunately, the .CA is not al'ays
aboe that" .h, and thin the (anoni;ation 'as by the dio(ese of Alasa, not the .CA as a 'hole, but
dio(eses sometimes dont do their histori(al home'or" t haens"
" Sarina | January 27, 2011 at 10:1@ am | 3ely
&he boo .rthodox Alasa robably doesnt mention Peter be(ause it 'as ublished BE+.3E Peter 'as#lorified as a saint" Eer (onsider that<
frontierorthodoxy | January 27, 2011 at 10:25 am | 3ely
&his is a #ood oint, -abrina, but the boo did not mention only saints" Peter the Aleut still (ould hae
been mentioned as a martyr" A#ain, e not emailed +r" i(hael on this se(ifi(ally" /e (an sea
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ubli(ly if and 'hen he 'ants to on this" )ust find it intri#uin# to note his relatie silen(e and that 'hen
(onsulted, he does not seem to hae ob)e(ted to the ob)e(tions"
7" !ri" Peterson | January 27, 2011 at 10:44 am | 3ely
do remember +r" i(hael talin# about -t" Peter the Aleut in his le(tures that hae on tae" /e
(on(luded it 'as not missionaries, but oer;ealous offi(ials" Any'ay, find the eiden(e for his non%
existen(e as flimsy as that for his existen(e" m a historian, but am not a fan of the thou#ht that 'e (an
in our day, so far remoed from histori(al eents or non%eents, a((urately assess them based on the
eiden(e 'e do or do not hae sin(e 'hat 'e thin of as the histori(al re(ord,8 'hether oral or 'ritten,
is only a small art of the re(ord existin# at and nearer the time" Also, 'hat is re(orded throu#h 'ritin# or
remembered in oral story is only art of 'hat a(tually haened and an interretation" Any'ay, find
your (laims too bold, +ather, based on the reasons you resent for them" Based on the la( of eiden(e8
thesis, there 'ould be (ause to assert that most of the saints in the -ynaxarion did not exist" am not a fan
of remoin# saints from the -ynaxarion" hether or not they existed does not (on(ern me" hether ornot they are 'orthy to be there does not (on(ern me" Elder aoos of Eia said that there 'ere many
saints there that 'ere not holy" hat does (on(ern me, as an .rthodox Christian, is simle a((etan(e of
'hat the Chur(h #ies me" do not feel embarrassed, as a historian, if somethin# is ina((urate" dont
feel the Chur(h has to (han#e based on some ne' dis(oery" s that a refusal of me to eat humble ie<
dont thin so" /umility is a siritual disosition and a #ift from Fod" t is ersonal" &o me, it does not
(ome from droin# one narratie be(ause it may be histori(ally fla'ed, and adotin# another be(ause
its robably more histori(ally a((urate"
frontierorthodoxy | January 27, 2011 at 11:0$ am | 3ely
Eri(,
&hans for stoin# byO readily a((et that my (laim is bold" doubt many 'ould *uestion thatO
'ould note that there are de#rees of 'hat (an be no'n" hat (an be no'n about someone from 1000
years a#o, 'here 'e hae but a fe' 'ritten do(uments mi#ht be different from a more re(ent (ase" t is
true that one (an hae a re(ent (ase so on the frontier that nearly nothin# is no'n, true, but in this (ase,
'e do hae some ie(es of eiden(e to assess"
'ould add to this that a historian ou#ht to loo at the eiden(e at hand and 'hat 'e do hae 'ei#hs
a#ainst the story of Peters martyrdom and een his existen(e" -ome mi#ht tae a middle road and re)e(this martyrdom but not existen(e" a(tually doubt his existen(e"
do not define humility as blindly a((etin# somethin# een 'hen (ontradi(ted by eiden(e" thin it is a
false di(hotomy to thin that humility is oosed to histori(al in*uiry" 3emember, (anoni;in# someone
assumes there is a someone to (anoni;e" e should not )ust tae (hara(ters from hearsay or een ious
stories and (anoni;e them if theres erifiable eiden(e to the (ontrary" e should be more (autious than
that"
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Bein# 'illin# to (onfront oneself, een ia histori(al eiden(e, is an as(eti( undertain#" )ust dont
a((et your di(hotomous resuosition"
Fr. Andre# | January 27, 2011 at 12:1? m | 3ely
$hat does "on"ern me% as an Orthodox Christian% is simple a""eptan"e of #hat the Chur"h gi&es me.
&his is an interestin# *uestion" s the (anoni;ation of Peter the Aleut 'hat the Chur(h #ies8 us< t is
(ertainly 'hat 'as #ien to us by the .CAs Vio(ese of Alasa and, in turn, by the .CA" But Peters not
een in the synaxarion of the Antio(hian Ar(hdio(ese 6 )ust (he(ed my Liturgikon9, the )urisdi(tion 'ith
ar#uably the (losest ties to the .CA 6yet they do in(lude /erman of Alasa, Alexis &oth and 3ahael of
Broolyn, all (anoni;ed by the .CA, some before and some after9"
&here is not only a sin#le synaxarion 'hi(h the Chur(h ees" &here are many, and there are ariations"
Vo 'e no' 'hi(h (hur(hes hae Peter in their offi(ial synaxarion< Antio(h 6at least9 doesnt, 'hi(h
seems not to be an oersi#ht, (onsiderin# the other saints from the .CA that they re(o#ni;e"
Peter T. | January 27, 2011 at ?:12 m |
-t" Peter is (ommemorated on the F.A (alendar both 'ith -t" Juenaly on -et 24 and alone on Ve( 12"
-t" Anthonys onasterys Viine usi( Pro)e(t also in(ludes his troarion and ontaion for Ve( 12"
/e is on the 3ussian (alendar 'ith /erman and the -ynaxis of Ameri(an artyrs on Ve( 12"
dont no' the ba(#round of ho' he made it onto either (alendar, but it is interestin# that they ut him
on a different day from the .CA"
Fr. Andre# | January 2?, 2011 at :0? am |
dont hae an offi(ial (oy of the F.A synaxarion, but m not sure that 'hats on their 'ebsite is
ne(essarily offi(ial in this re#ard" After all, the Antio(hian Ar(hdio(ese in(ludes him on its o'n 'ebsite,
as 'ell, but didnt ut him in the brand ne' edition of the Liturgikon"
-o, 'hile 'ould (hal u his in(lusion on some 'ebsites as eiden(e of eneration, 'ouldnt say that
that (onstitutes a(tual in(lusion in the synaxarion"
?" ortho"ajun | January 27, 2011 at 11:0? am | 3ely
/ae you dis(ounted all these referen(es<
htt:!!startin#ontheroyalath"blo#sot"(om!2010!04!st%eter%aleut"html
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frontierorthodoxy | January 27, 2011 at 11:25 am | 3ely
-orry didnt rely sooner" our (omment #ot thro'n into my sam" m not dis(ountin# that at all" &hat
reort is re(isely 'hat is at issue" &here are reasons to doubt it" Just be(ause -t" /erman of Alasa 'as
not a historian does not mean 'e should be" /e too the erson at his 'ord" m 'illin# to resume that
-t" /erman assumed he 'as told the truth" At least, it seems to me that that is 'hat haened" Anyho',
theres nothin# ne' at this site" hat am talin# about is re(isely the histori(al (ontext of the anosii
reort"
@" 'atthe# (amee | January 27, 2011 at 11:1? am | 3ely
e been (ommentin# on all this oer on our +a(eboo a#e, but thou#ht d dro by here as 'ell" .ne
oint 'orth (onsiderin# is ho' -t" Peter 'as (anoni;ed, and by 'hom" /e 'as (anoni;ed, not by the
.CA, but by the .CA Vio(ese of Alasa" &here aears to hae been ery little histori(al in*uiry done rior to his (anoni;ation" &he ori#inal martyrdom a((ount from 1?20 'as not translated into En#lish by
the (anoni;ation (ommittee, and dont no' if they een (onsulted it" But the oint is that -t" Peter is a
lo(ally #lorified .CA Vio(ese of Alasa saint, )ust as Ar(hbisho Arseny is a lo(ally #lorified .CA
Ar(hdio(ese of Canada saint" Ho(al #lorifi(ation, in a sin#le dio(ese, does not (omel the rest of the
.rthodox Chur(h to enerate someone" n this 'ay, 'ould ar#ue that -t" Peter 6and Arseny9 are ery
different than the saints of old 6lie Feor#e and Catherine and Barbara9, for 'hom little or no dire(t
histori(al eiden(e suries" &hose saints hae been enerated by the 'hole Chur(h for 1500W years,
'hereas -t" Peter 'as #lorified ery re(ently" t seems to me that different standards of histori(al in*uiry
should aly"
)ames | January 27, 2011 at 12:1 m | 3ely
&he ori#inal (anoni;ation may hae been done by the .CA Vio(ese of Alasa, but 'e in 3.C.3, for
examle, no' also enerate -t" Peter, so the issue has be(ome broader than the .CA"
'atthe# (amee | January 27, 2011 at 1:$1 m |
es, James, e )ust learned that 3.C.3 (anoni;ed -t" Peter in 1@?0" Vo any other Chur(hes in(lude -t"Peter in their synaxaria<
10" !ri" Peterson | January 27, 2011 at 11:45 am | 3ely
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am not blindly a((etin#8 anythin#, nor do ado(ate this" do tae issue 'ith main# a (laim of non%
existen(e based on flimsy eiden(e" Can you roide eiden(e, for examle, that thee 'as a for#ery< ou
hae offered only more (on)e(ture so far, and as yet the ori#inal do(uments hae yet to be examined" &he
eiden(e for -t" Peters existen(e and martyrdom is also flimsy" /o'eer, (an in my mind fit them into a
liely histori(al narratie" &hat is, ho'eer, still (on)e(ture" e hae (ometin# (on)e(tures" do not
thin 'e shall arrie at a oint beyond (on)e(ture either 'ay unless some bi# dis(oery is made" Either'ay, 'e hae /istory Channel8 standards at 'or" e may 'ant more, but more is not aailable at this
time"
11" 'atthe# (amee | January 27, 2011 at 1:42 m | 3ely
ell, re#ardless of 'here the burden of roof lies, and 'hi(h side8 of the issue has the stron#er
ar#ument at this moment, thin 'e need more information" e hae a (entral *uestion: Vid -t" Peter
the Aleut exist<8 'ould refer to re%hrase this into, as an Aleut hunter named Peter martyred for his
faith by the -anish in California in about 1?15<8 &hen, 'e must brea the *uestion do'n to into smaller
*uestions, until 'e arrie at *uestions 'hi(h (an be definitiely ans'ered" +or instan(e:
Vid Aleuts mae their 'ay to California on huntin# shis in the 1?10s<
f so, is there any eiden(e of (onfli(t bet'een these Aleuts and the -anish<
s the story about -anish raids on Aleut shis, and the tain# of Aleut (aties, in the mid%1?10s
erifiable<
here did that story (ome from< hat are the sour(es<
here did the -t" Peter story (ome from< y understandin# is that 'e 6and -t" /erman9 re(eied the
story by 'ay of the 3ussian offi(ial anosy, 'ho in turn heard it from a urorted eye'itness" ho is
this eye'itness< here did he (ome from, and 'hat be(ame of him< here is his deosition<
All of these *uestions should hae ans'ers, and the ans'ers shouldnt be too terribly (ontroersial"
'ould su##est that 'e ursue these ans'ers as far as ossible" f 'e (an establish that there 'ere in fa(t
Aleut huntin# shis in California, and that the -anish o((asionally raided these shis and too (aties,
'e are already far (loser to understandin# the ori#ins of the -t" Peter story" admit, the details of his story
hae the rin# of le#end rather than reality X did the -anish really try to (onert him by for(e, aly
tortures reminis(ent of -t" James the Persians, and hae a len#thy dialo#ue 'ith him ain to those in the
Hies of the -aints< But een if 'e (ant roe 6or disroe9 those details, no'in# 'hether the -anish
eer (atured =atie Alasan hunters in the first la(e 'ould be a #reat start"
/onestly, a lot of 'hat 'e need to determine these initial ans'ers may already be online" Besides the
Bu(o arti(le and the arti(le by arina V" lyin, there are arti(les by Vr" Flenn +arris and -tehen Hittle
Bear 'hi(h dis(uss the histori(al details behind the story" Perhas, (olle(tiely, those of us interested in
the sub)e(t (ould mine those se(ondary sour(es in an effort to ans'er the most basi( underlyin#
*uestions" &hen, armed 'ith those ans'ers, 'e (an ursue the more substantial *uestions of Peters
martyrdom"
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12" frontierorthodoxy | January 27, 2011 at 2:5? m | 3ely
atthe',
thin thats a fine 'ay to ro(eed" thin Bu(o has done as #ood a )ob as anyone (ould in (onne(tin#the Peter the Aleut story to a no'n eent inolin# risoners but then that (onne(ts us to the +r" Jose
letter, a letter that beliee is (onsistent 'ith the -anish mission (ontext at the time" -till, 'e should
brea this all do'n" a#ree and loo for'ard to it"
Eri(,
e dont hae mutually (ometin# se(ulations" &hats a mis(hara(teri;ation of 'hats o((urrin# here"
Cometin# se(ulations 'ould be tain# my theory that Duso adoted an earlier story and +r" i(hal
.s theory 6alle#edly9 that a -anish layman did it" &hose are se(ulations"
hat am doin# is ullin# a issouri and sayin# sho' me"8 -o, loo at the eiden(e, and see that
there is a testimony that has oliti(al a#enda 'ritten all oer it" &hat maes me susi(ious but doesnt rule
it out" then see that the eent to 'hi(h it (an most liely be tied 'as found by Bu(o but then that eent
leads me to use the same rimary sour(e that 'e (an erify and that exli(itly (ontradi(ts the
Duso!oanosii story" &he +r" Jose letter also fits the a(tual (ontext better from 'hat no' at this
oint"
Could there hae been someone 'ith a Christian name of Peter (olle(tin# furs in California< -ure, maybe
do;ensO Could one of them een hae died in a raid or dro'ned 'hile doin# so< -ure, 'hy not, but that
doesnt roe Peter the Aleut existed" Peter the Aleut is a fi#ure in a story 'ho 'as (onfronted and
martyred by Jesuits and looin# at the eiden(e, say that fi#ure did not exist"
i#ht 'e find eiden(e that sho's Jesuits 'ere in California erse(utin# .rthodox =aties or that a
riest 6non%Jesuit een9 did this< t is ossible, but resently, thats not 'hat 'e hae" e hae an
alle#ation #ien to us throu#h oanosii"
Een if you find reason to follo' the oanosii reort6s9 in (ontradi(tion to the do(umented rimary
des(rition from +r" Jose and 'hat 'e no' of -anish missions at the time, that is not reason to
(anoni;e someone" Canoni;in# in (ontradi(tion to stron# histori(al eiden(e is not a smart moe
#enerally seain#"
&he oint is not that 3ussians and -anish raided ea(h others boats" &hat haened" &he oint is not that a
-anish mission had a rison" t did" =or is the oint that Aleuts named Peter mi#ht hae been in
California" &hey mi#ht hae" &he oint is that the eiden(e that hae seen u to this oint leads me to
one (on(lusion, the Peter the Aleut8 fi#ure did not exist"
1$" 'atthe# (amee | January 27, 2011 at $:2 m | 3ely
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thin +r" .liers latest (omment in(ludes the statement, L&Nhe eiden(e that hae seen u to this
oint leads me to one (on(lusion, the YPeter the Aleut fi#ure did not exist"8 thin this is a reasonable
statement, and it is far less roo(atie than the title of the arti(le, -t" Peter the Aleut Vid =ot Exist"8
dont thin its the only reasonable (on(lusion 6as +r" .lier su##ests, its ossible that an Aleut named
Peter 'as indeed martyred9, but based on aailable eiden(e, it may be the most reasonable"
But rese(tfully submit that raisin# the issue of Peters existen(e, rather than the a((ura(y of his
martyrdom story, unne(essarily distra(ts from the main oint of the debate" Vid the -anish raid shis and
tae Aleut risoners< Aarently so, from 'hat m hearin#" i#ht some Aleuts hae died, either durin#
the raid or in -anish (atiity< Zuite ossibly" Based on this, 'ould ar#ue that the (hara(ter of Peter
the Aleut8 may ery 'ell hae existed, and the broad arameters of his story may ery 'ell be true" &he
disute is oer the details: 'as he interro#ated, 'as he tortured for his faith< At this sta#e, thin there is
insuffi(ient eiden(e to (on(lude (onfidently either 'ay" .thers mi#ht disa#ree X no doubt +r" .lier
feels that the eiden(e thus far is suffi(ient to say that the story is ina((urate" But thin this all 'arrants
further inesti#ation"
am deely interested in ho' the story deeloed" anosy didnt 'itness the martyrdom, or een talto an eye'itness" /e heard the story from another 3ussian offi(ial, 'ho in turn (laimed to hae heard it
from one of Peters Aleut (omanions" Perhas there 'as another lin in the (hain, too X if the 3ussian
offi(ial (ouldnt understand Peters (omanion, he 'ould hae needed a translator" e are thus talin#
about a sin#le sour(e 6the (omanion9 mediated throu#h at least t'o 3ussian offi(ials and ossibly a
translator" anosy 6the last lin in the (hain9 a(tually offered multile ersions of the story, searated
by de(ades" &he most (ommon ersion is the latest one, 'hen anosy 'as an old man" But the earlier
ersion, 'hi(h thin is anosys offi(ial reort, has neer 6to my no'led#e9 been made aailable" t
may be that this is the do(ument 'hi(h has re(ently been ublished in a boo 6referred to early in the
(omments9" Voes the ori#inal deosition of the Aleut (omanion surie< Perhas it is in 3ussia, or
somethin#, but 'e dont no'" 'ould H.IE to see that deosition"
At this sta#e, erhas it is the la' student in me, but really 'ant to see more eiden(e before dra' any
firm (on(lusions"
frontierorthodoxy | January 27, 2011 at $:4 m | 3ely
&heres no reliable eiden(e that Peter the Aleut8 existed" An Aleut named Peter mi#ht heled (olle(t
furs but thats different" Peter the Aleut8 is a martyr *uestioned and tortured 6alle#edly at some oint by
a Jesuit'ho 'erent een in California at this time9" &hese are t'o different fi#ures"
Peter T. | January 27, 2011 at ?:00 m | 3ely
anosys ori#inal reort, and that of his suerior in -t" Petersbur# to the &sar, are aailable" Bu(o (ites
their sour(es and *uotes them 6in entirety<9" hats not yet aailable in En#lish but a((ordin# to Bu(o
should no' be ublished in 3ussian 6see the (itation aboe9 is the alle#ed trans(rit of the eye'itness
testimony that anosy says he sent alon# 'ith his reort" Fien the (omaratie len#th of the reort to
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the &sar, m in(lined to thin that another do(ument did in fa(t a((omany anosys reort, and that at
least some of the additional details (ame from it" e summari;ed 'hat (ould ie(e to#ether about the
sour(es, if anyone (ares to hae a loo" 6&hou#h thin youd robably #et )ust about as mu(h from
Bu(os arti(le"9
14" 'at. *onna Farley | January 27, 2011 at 4:$0 m | 3ely
Could there hae been someone 'ith a Christian name of Peter (olle(tin# furs in California< -ure,
maybe do;ensO Could one of them een hae died in a raid or dro'ned 'hile doin# so< -ure, 'hy not,
but that doesnt roe Peter the Aleut existed" Peter the Aleut is a fi#ure in a story 'ho 'as (onfronted
and martyred by Jesuits and looin# at the eiden(e, say that fi#ure did not exist"8
&his sounds to me in some 'ays 6and on a mu(h smaller s(ale9 some'hat similar to the 'hole Arthurian
*uestion, thou#h that has many more (enturies 'orth of le#endary layers the Ydefinitie ersion bein#
ery late and dressed in hi#h medieal (lothes" =eertheless, beliee most s(holars no' suose thereto hae been %an% ori#inal Arthur 'ho 'as a 3omano%British #eneral" -o 'onder, +r" .lier, if you may
not be talin# at (ross%uroses 'ith some others here about the Yexisten(e or not of Peter the Aleut8<
Perhas those 'ho are under his atrona#e may hoe that their rayers rea(h the Yreal PeterU"
'onder this 'ithout yet hain# formed a firm oinion of 'hether he should indeed hae been (anoni;ed
by Alasa or, if not, 'hat the rest of us in the .CA and 'ider .rthodoxy should do 'ith him, if and 'hen
'e (an find anythin# resemblin# resemblin# histori(al (ertainty about the matterU"it is #ood to see this
dis(ussion tain# la(e, and a#ree 'ith you that atthe' =amee has outlined a ery #ood 'ay to start a
more thorou#h inesti#ation"
frontierorthodoxy | January 27, 2011 at 10:4@ m | 3ely
&here are some arallels, atusha" &he differen(e here, 'ould submit, is that 'e hae (anoni;ed a
se(ifi( fi#ure" &his erson is no'n as -t" Peter the Aleut and his (anoni;ation is based on his
martyrdom" =o', if that (annot be erified, then this fi#ure be(omes fi(tional" &hat does not mean there
are not elements of truth, from little fa(ts lie a rison existed at that -anish mission to =atie Alasans
died #atherin# furs to some =atie Alasans had the Christian name Peter" =one of that rodu(es the
erson 'e (anoni;ed" &he story (an een hae truth lie the Phoenix, 'hi(h reresented the 3esurre(tion
to some Christians" &hat is all fine, but it doesnt erify the alle#edly liin# erson 'e (anoni;ed"
As for 'hat to do, thats a tou#h one" hae already su##ested the .rthodox Chur(h ou#ht to (onsider
remoin# him but ho' to (onsider that or 'hod (onsider that, dont no'" Also, su(h (onsideration
'ould re*uire detailed inesti#ations beyond 'hat e done here" ts al'ays ossible8 some Jesuit
disre#arded the roto(ol and )ourneyed to California on his o'n and tortured and illed a =atie named
Peter but (urrently, the eiden(e e seen su##ests other'ise" -o, 'hat to do< &hats not an easy *uestion
to ans'er"
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melxiopp | January 2?, 2011 at 10:22 am |
(one of that produ"es the person #e "anoni+ed.
hat does the a(tual (anoni;ation from the Vio(ese of Alasa say about -t" Peter the Aleut< hile theremay be arious stories about him, the Vio(ese may simly hae (anoni;ed the erson 'ho they beliee to
hae existed and to hae been martyred in some fashion, 'ithout tyin# themseles do'n 'ith arious
se(ifi(s"
n a related *uestion, ho' 'as the (anoni;ation in Alasa done< &hat is, 'as it on the basis or initiatie of
=atie Alasans #ien their tradition of a -t" Peter the Aleut, or 'as the (anoni;ation ro(ess (o%oted by
those from the lo'er 4? for other reasons and uroses< &he former 'ould at least roide some sort of
Ytradition and Ylo(al eneration, 'hi(h are inte#ral arts to the looser and more informal (anoni;ation
ro(ess in .rthodox 6as (omared to the 3CC9"
thin the analo#y bet'een the dio(esan (anoni;ations of -t" Peter the Aleut and Ab Arseny isimortant" t uts into (ontext the (laims of holiness, i"e", there is no (on(iliar a#reement 'ithin the .CA
mu(h less 'ithin .rthodoxy as a 'hole" u(h the same (an be said of 3.C.3s (anoni;ation of -t"
Peter, i"e", it is simly a small art of the 3ussian Chur(h, not the 3ussian Chur(h in toto"
15" 'at. *onna Farley | January 27, 2011 at 4:41 m | 3ely
"s" [atthe' =amee: -t" Arseny has not been formally #lorified een in Canada"
'atthe# (amee | January 27, 2011 at 4:57 m | 3ely
didnt reali;e that X may hae been (onfused by the fre*uent referen(es to -aint Arseny"8 -orry for
the mistaeO
'at. *onna Farley | January 2?, 2011 at 4:54 m |
&here is or 'as a (anoni;ation (ommittee, but dont beliee they are (urrently a(tie" understand there
'as already mu(h eneration of -t" Arseny in the rairies before this (ommittee 'as assembled and his
eneration en(oura#ed a(ross Canada"
1" Cale Reuer | January 27, 2011 at 10:15 m | 3ely
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Ah, somethin# (an (omment on from a la(e of (onfiden(e" hae done rather a bit of readin# on the
eriod of 3ussian Alasa both in and out of (olle#e, and must a#ree 'ith your assessment" am
(urrently a'ay from my boos, but this -t" Peter the Aleut seems rather ao(ryhal for a number of
reasons" +or one, there 'as ex(etionally little (onta(t bet'een the -anish and the 3ussian (olonies"
&here 'as little (ometition as 'ell, the 3ussians had the shis and the naties 'ho ne' the hunt as 'ell
as the tradin# (ities in China and the rest of the 'orld 'hile -ain 'as mu(h more Euro%fo(used" t 'as a(alled a monooly for a reason" &hey did not do mu(h tradin# and the natie eoles 'ere ery deoted
to their land and home" &here - a #reat oral tradition that needs to be (onsidered, as you hae noted" 6
'ould loo to re(ent 'or by Ve/ass ublished in !thnology 9 t is not unreasonable that an Aleut 6or a
-u#ia* as in the aforementioned arti(le9 'ould feel stron#ly enou#h about his faith to be martyred" t is
(lear that .rthodoxy has been (omletely and rather seamlessly inte#rated into the tribal (ulture su(h that
it is art of 'hat it means to be a true erson 6a#ain, Ve/ass9" /o'eer, trael out of the re#ion 'as
ex(etionally rare until the re#ion 'as A" bou#ht by the >nited -tates and B" (onne(ted oerland to
imortant orts" &he saint to loo to is -t" /erman himself" /e is a mu(h stron#er ision of the o'erful
as(eti( and a better role model be(ause there is no *uestion as to his existen(e and ima(t" /is fo(us is
dedi(atin# life to Fod from my erse(tie mu(h more o'erful than dyin# for /im" /ermans dubious
sour(e (he(in# not'ithstandin#" #uess if you really 'ant an .rthodox fi#ure to loo u to from Alasa
you (an loo to the students 'ho died for their faith in the ethodist (onersion s(hools under (Dinley"
f anybody deseres to be re(o#ni;ed as martyrs they do" &he story is lausible, but thats as mu(h as m
'illin# to #ie it 'ithout really di##in# into the sour(es for this se(ifi( issue"
frontierorthodoxy | January 27, 2011 at 10:4$ m | 3ely
es, theres no *uestion that -t" /erman existed and he 'as (learly a holy man" ay he (ontinue to ray
to Fod for usO t is #ood to hae you ba( hereO
17" (i"holas Chapman | January 27, 2011 at 10:2$ m | 3ely
At /oly &rinity onastery 'e 'ill be ublishin# a ne' boo later this year on -t" /erman of Alasa" t
(ontains mu(h material dra'n from 3ussian sour(es, not reiously translated into En#lish" &here are a
(oule of a#es in the boo about the story of -t" Peter the Aleut" &he most extensie is a *uotation from
the 3ussian historian A"A" stomin taen from storiia 3ussoi Amerii 617$2%1?79, &" 2U L/istory of
3ussian Ameri(a 617$2%1?79, olume 2UN, 2$4%2$5",N 6os(o':e;hdunar" otnosheni a, 1@@79 ti
states:
n the mission of -an Pedro the Dodias 'ere offered to a((et Catholi(ism, but they refused" After alittle 'hile &araso and the ma)ority of the Dodias 'ere transferred to -anta Barbara, but " Dy#laia and
the 'ounded Chua#na from the illa#e Da#uia 'ere left in -an Pedro" &hey 'ere et there for
seeral days 'ithout 'ater and food 'ith ndian (oni(ts" .n(e at ni#ht, they 'ere a#ain ordered to
a((et Catholi(ism, Y'hi(h under su(h extreme (onditions they resoled not to do" At da'n a Catholi(
riest (ame to the rison 'ith seeral ndians" &he Dodias 'ere (alled out of the rison" &he ndians
surrounded them, and the riest ordered to (ut off Chua#nas fin#ers at the )oints on both hands and to
(ut off his hands" &hen they disembo'eled the dyin# Dodia" hen they #ae the missionary some sort
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of aer, the exe(ution 'as stoed" After he read it, he ordered them to bury Chua#nas body in the
#round"8
&he author of the forth(omin# -t" /erman boo
, -er#ei Dorsun, then adds:
&he martyri( death of Peter Chua#na 'as 'itnessed by a Dodia Aleut named an Deelii, thou#h
some sour(es (all him Dyhliai" /e 'as able to es(ae from (atiity to the -anish" /e 'as i(ed u
by 3ACs 3ussian essel lmena and taen to +ort 3oss, from 'here he returned to =e' Arhan#els in
1?1@"
1?" Cale Reuer | January 2?, 2011 at 12:10 am | 3ely
Addendum: 3ather than fo(usin# on (onfli(t bet'een Catholi( and .rthodox as this (anoni;ation (learly
does, it 'ould be better to loo to the iolen(e #ien by the 3ussians themseles" hat of the thousands
'ho died under the brutality of 3ussian rule< =ot only (an this reinfor(e the role of ea(e eeers lie -t"/erman, but it en(oura#es mindfulness in dealin# 'ith history itself" t is imortant to note that it 'ould
hae been far more liely that the 3ussian%Ameri(an Co" 'ould hae illed -t" Peter the Aleut than the
non%existent Jesuits" understand the imortan(e of rememberin# those 'ho died for the faith, but they
(an neer really be the #reat role%models for life that a -t" of ea(e (an be" After all, anybody (an die for
Fod, fe' (an lie for /im" +urther the (onersion8 of the Aleut eoles of this time 'as at best
erfun(tory" &hey ne' little to nothin# of .rthodox theolo#y and 'ere often bati;ed more out of
(uriosity than iety" .ne (an only (all them .rthodox by adotin# a #enerous definition"
Roert | January 2?, 2011 at 2:47 am | 3ely
After all, anybody (an die for Fod, fe' (an lie for /im8
Bold statement" =ot so sure (an a#ree 'ith that"
'at. *onna Farley | January 2?, 2011 at 5:02 m |
Perhas fe' (an die for Fod, still fe'er (an lie for /im<8
Fr. Andre# | January 2?, 2011 at :1$ am | 3ely
hat you say about martyrs is interestin# and (ertainly has a lo#i( of its o'n, thou#h disa#ree 'ith your
(on(lusion that anyone (an die for Fod" hats erhas most releant, thou#h, is that the Chur(h
disa#rees 'ith it, too, la(in# martyrs as the hi#hest amon# the saintsXindeed, te(hni(ally seain#, they
are the only ones (ommemorated 'ith the (ate#ory of hagios 6saint89" 6&he rest are hosios, hiereus, et("9
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Cale Reuer | January 2?, 2011 at 7:00 am |
missoe there" mean not to say that they are less holy, only that they aear to be less o'erful as
role models" understand and rese(t that to be (onsidered a martyr one must #ie u the #ift of life in
faor of reli#ious (oni(tion" &his is a o'erful thin#" /o'eer, looin# at those 'ho lied *uietly doin#
Fods 'or (an be mu(h more ali(able to eeryday life and faith" 3emember that do not 'rite from
'ithin the (hur(h in any 'ay and my oinion is urely se(ular in nature" -o, for me, the (on(et of
dedi(ation to belief and #ood honest liin# is more o'erful than the death of a martyr" y interest is in
monasti(ism and iolen(e so my oinion is most (ertainly biased"
Fr. Andre# | January 2?, 2011 at ?:4? am |
Caleb: -in(e youre not seain# from 'ithin the Chur(h, m not sure on 'hat (ommon basis 'e (an
a#ree ho' one ou#ht to lie his life"
n any eent, 'ithin .rthodoxy, a life lied for Fod that does not in(lude literal martyrdom is often
(omared metahori(ally to literal martyrdomXthat is, martyrdom is the standard Christian life" 'artyr
means 'itness,8 after all"
ou may find my tal about the martyrdom of -t" #natius of Antio(h 6and 'hat it has to do 'ith the
normal8 Christian life9 to be of interest in this re#ard: Part 1, Part 2"
1@" Fr. 'i"hael | January 2?, 2011 at 1:$7 m | 3ely
+r" .lier,
An interestin# dis(ussion" d lie to add a (oule of stray (omments"
19 dont thin too mu(h should be made of the term Jesuit8 in a 1@th%(entury 3ussian sour(e" +or
3ussians of this eriod, arti(ularly those 'ho 'ith no se(iali;ation in 3oman Catholi( reli#ious life
6i"e", most 3ussians9, Jesuit8 'as often used as a #eneri( 'hen Catholi( reli#ious orders 'ere meant,
rather lie the medieal mons in (ontemorary B moies, 'ho al'ays 'ear the notted roe belts of the
+ran(is(ansO
29 Perhas off%toi(, but Caleb 3euer 'rote: #uess if you really 'ant an .rthodox fi#ure to loo u tofrom Alasa you (an loo to the students 'ho died for their faith in the ethodist (onersion s(hools
under (Dinley" f anybody deseres to be re(o#ni;ed as martyrs they do"8
Are there any histori(al sour(es on these ids< t sounds as if some ery se(ifi( (ases are referred to
here"
&hans"
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htts:!!'eb"ar(hie"or#!'eb!201101$004505!htt:!!frontierorthodoxy"'ordress"(om!2011!01!27!st%
eter%the%aleut%did%not%exist!