session 2 – the stolen jesus?
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Session 2 – The Stolen Jesus?. In this session we will look at the idea that the story of Jesus was made up by someone by compiling pre-existing legends. - PowerPoint PPT PresentationTRANSCRIPT
Session 2 – The Stolen Jesus?
In this session we will look at the idea that the story of Jesus was made up by
someone by compiling pre-existing legends
We will not concentrate much on who they claim was making up the story, often times they say a group of people, we will instead
focus on the myths they say we stole
A story to get us started
Once upon a time there were three little donkeys, who built houses out of paper,
sticks, and bricks
Along came the big bad elephant to the first house, he blew it down. He then went to the second and blew that one down too, and he went to the third, and couldn’t (until he got
help from another elephant)
What is this a copy of? The three little pigs
Even though I didn’t call them pigs, and it was an elephant not wolf, and I changed the
ending, you still knew it was using that story
This is how some people today approach the story of Jesus, they claim it was based on pre-
existing stories and legends (although they did add some unique stuff)
They claim that in mythology, there are many men who do things that Jesus does
Born of a VirginSuffers for others
Ascends into heaven
We do not have time to cover all the parallels people give, we will look at a few and general
problems with them
Caesar Augustus
He was called a savior by his people
Well folks, that about all that lines up
between the two of them
I think we can name a few more things different between them, don’t you? This
isn’t too popular among parallelists
Odysseus and Jesus
They were both carpenters
Both sailed in seas (Odysseus a little more than Jesus, but Jesus did go out
on the Sea of Galilee
Both of these individuals face supernatural foes during their lives
Both had last suppers before visiting Hades
Apollonius of Tyana
He lives during the first century, but his account was not written down
until 170-245 A.D.
It was not written by eye-witnesses, it was by people who lived after the Bible was written
Our only historical source for this individual is Philostatus
When we look at the Bible, we have multiple sources for what happened
in the life-time of Jesus
Philostratus was commissions by the Emperor to write a biography for the
Temple dedication to Apollonius
If anything, Philostratus would want to exaggerate the biography, and would steal
from the Christian religion
Was Jesus based on Dionysus?
They claim the idea of a Virgin birth came from the myth of Dionysus, because he
was born of a Virgin
Understand, what we mean by virgin birth, and what they mean by virgin birth, are
very different
Dionysus mother was killed, and he was taken and sown into the thigh of Zeus
What about the Osiris myth
They claim that the story of Jesus’ baptism would have been take from Osiris and his
baptism story which pre-dates Jesus
What actually happened in the Osiris
story? After he had died, his coffin was
thrown into the Nile…
They also claim that Osiris had a resurrection story and the Jesus myth could have stole that
Are the stories similar when looking at them? We all know the story of Jesus and his resurrection
In the Osiris myth, his dismembered body is pieced
back together and he becomes the zombified lord of the
underworld
And now for the most popular version of the parallelism, Jesus and Mithra
They say Mithra had twelve disciples
Mithra and his twelve disciples had a last supper before his death
Mithra is supposed to be born December 25th
They claim all these things line up… obviously the Christians had to steal some of this?
Let’s look at these similarities in more detail
Mithras twelve disciples are actually the twelve signs of the zodiac
This is different than the disciples of Jesus who are real people from real
geographic places
They did eat together and had a meal, but they never called that meal the last supper
Earliest Christians were not discussing December the 25th, in reality the date they first discussed was January 6th, and then they later
discussed December 25th
We have records of Christians discussing the December25th date before we have evidence of Mithra have that birthday
Many Christians today do think the Christians stole that date from Pagans, but it was
discussed very early
There are even bigger problems
Mithraism didn’t come into Rome until the 2nd Century, after the entire
Bible was written
There is no evidence the Christians had any contact with Mithraism when they
were writing the Bible
Even if they did, the odds are Christianity influences Mithraism, not the other way
Watch how easy parallelism is to make up
Is parallelism is a trustworthy method, we can prove The Hobbit (Movie) was not based off the book, but actually off the
movie Braveheart
It is easy to see that Peter Jackson was
basing the dwarves off the Scotts in
Braveheart
Both groups in the movies (dwarves & Wallace's) are being chased by the enemy
In both movies, the good guys are setting out to recapture their homeland
Both the main characters' ride horses
Steven and Bard are both from outside groups, but come and help those
conquering their homeland
In both movies they are using swords as a primary weapon
Both the main characters‘ are captured by the enemy at some point
Both groups fought against large enemies
Both groups are fighting a war and are abandoned by their friends in time of need
Smog and Long Shanks are similar, one hates the Scotts, and one hates the dwarves
Thorin and Wallace both lost their fathers early on
The Grammatical Similarity
In the hobbit they have runes, in Braveheart they fight in the ruins of Scotland (and in
Bravehart they moon their enemy, and in the Hobbit they are moon runes.)
Christianity was based off another religion, and it was Judaism!
A bigger problem for this parallelism idea is prophecies of Jesus
Isa.7:14: Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall
conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
This far pre-dates Dionysus
He would be born of a virgin (Genesis 3:15, Isaiah 7:14)
To be announced by an Elijah-like herald (Isaiah 40:3-5, Malachi 3:1, 4:5)
He would proclaim a jubilee to the world (Isaiah 58:6, 61:1)
His ministry would be one of healing (Isaiah 53:4)
He would teach through parables (Isaiah 6:9-10, Psalms 78:2)
He would be betrayed by a friend for 30 pieces of silver (Zechariah 11:1-13, Psalms 41:9)
He would rise from the dead on the third day (Genesis 22:4, Psalms 16: 10-11, Hosea 6:2)
Almost everything that happened in the life of Jesus was prophesied before any of
these myths were created
The idea of Jesus being a parallel of other religious and mythical figures and not actually
existing falls apart when you look at it in more detail
There are other problems though denying Jesus ever existed
Flavius Josephus (AD 37?-101?) mentions Jesus - Antiquities, Book 18, ch. 3, par. 3.
Now there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man; for he was a doer of wonderful works, a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews
and many of the Gentiles.
We have quotes from people alive around the time of Jesus who were not Christians
Flavius Josephus: "Festus was now dead, and Albinus was but upon the road; so he assembled
the sanhedrim of judges, and brought before them the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ,
whose name was James, and some others, [or, some of his companions]; and when he had
formed an accusation against them as breakers of the law, he delivered them to be stoned: but as for
those who seemed the most equitable of the citizens, and such as were the most uneasy at the breach of the laws, they disliked what was done."
Tacitus (A.D. c.55-A.D. c.117, Roman historian) - Annals 15.44
"Consequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most
exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace.
Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the
reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus…”
Lucian (circa 120-after 180) mentions Jesus. Greek writer and rhetorician.
"The Christians, you know, worship a man to this day the distinguished personage who
introduced their novel rites, and was crucified on that account
We have many sources outside the Christians who talk of Jesus as a
historical figure
In 2002, the Biblical Archaeological Society and the Discovery Channel announced in Washington, D.C.
that an ancient inscription on a 2,000-year-old ossuary with the inscribed Aramaic words "James,
son of Joseph, brother of Jesus" was genuine. (dated A.D. 6-70)
The Bible is also allowed to be used as a reference, it is a historical
document of that time
“Today, nearly all historians, whether Christians or not, accept that Jesus existed and that the gospels contain plenty of valuable evidence
which has to be weighed and assessed critically.” The late Graham Stanton, Cambridge
University, in The Gospels and Jesus
Remember, the Bible is not just one source and one piece of evidence for the existence
of Jesus, it is a compilation of evidence
Paul, James, Peter, Luke, Mark, Matthew, John, and Jude are all different authors who
report of the historical Jesus
We will end with some quotes from experts on this topic of history
Non-Christian Bart Erhman said the following about this topic:
“Few of these mythicists are actually scholars trained in ancient history, religion,
biblical studies or any cognate field, let alone in the ancient languages generally thought
to matter for those who want to say something with any degree of authority
about a Jewish teacher who (allegedly) lived in first-century Palestine…
There are a couple of exceptions: of the hundreds — thousands? — of mythicists,
two (to my knowledge) actually have Ph.D. credentials in relevant fields of study. But
even taking these into account, there is not a single mythicist who teaches New Testament
or Early Christianity or even Classics at any accredited institution of higher learning
in the Western world. And it is no wonder why.”
“Some judgments are so probable as to be certain; for example, Jesus really existed, and he really was crucified, just as Julius Caesar really existed and was assassinated. .... We can in fact know as much about Jesus as we can about any figure in the ancient world.”
Marcus Borg, Professor of Religion and Culture at Oregon State University, in The
Meaning of Jesus: Two Visions
“we can no more reject Jesus' existence than we can reject the existence of a mass of pagan
personages whose reality as historical figures is never questioned. ..... In recent years, 'no
serious scholar has ventured to postulate the non historicity of Jesus' or at any rate very few,
and they have not succeeded in disposing of the much stronger, indeed very abundant, evidence
to the contrary.” The late Michael Grant, eminent historian of the Roman Empire, in Jesus:
an historian's review of the gospels