SENATE HOUSE OF COMMONS

lllut No. 18

Wednesday, December 3, 1980

Jelat Cllalrmen: Seaalor Harry Haya Serr~ Joyd, M.P.

N IIIIIUJ of l'n:Jc«diJttJ. o.NI Evldtltff fl/ tltt SfN!Cio.l Joint Commiun of tire Strtatt a!td of rAt Houu ofCommom on Jltt

Constitution of Canada

RESPI>CTII'G:

ne document entitled ·· propos.ec~ RetOiution for a Joint Address to Her Majaty the Queen rapccting the Constitution of Canada•• published b)' the Government <m Oetobcr 2, 1980

WITNESSES:

(See IMdt CO>tr)

Fint Session or the

Thirt}'·Jeoond Parliament. 1980

,.. ,_,

SENAT CHAMBRE DES COMMUNES

Fa!ldculc 11" 18

Le mercrcdl 3 dEccmbrc 1980

Copdsldentt:: St-Datur Harry Hays s..,. Joyol, dl,.ll

PI"'Cb· wrlHJtiX tl tlmoltJfllf'r.l dw Comltl mfxtt 1phial du Sbrlll ~~ d~ la Cltambrt du commllfflllllr la

Constitution du Canada

COI'CERNANT:

Le: document inthul6 •Projet de rCsolutioo portant adre.s:soe commune A Sa MajcstC la Reine concernant lfl Contthution du Canada .. , pubH6 par 1e souvernemcnt le l oc.tobre J 980

TEMOINS:

Prc:miCrc •c:•lllon de In

trente·deu~ICme 16siataturc. 1980

SPECIAL JOINT COMMITTEE OF THE SENATE A ND OF THE HOUSE OP COMMONS ON Tt-16 CONSTITUTION OF CANADA

Jol•t C'-omwc: ~I.Or Hvry lla)'f Sera«' Joy:a.l. M.P.

Rt"'""'ilfz ,., s,lf(Ju. 54lnlll01'1!

AndttiOR A1~1in 1'\\lltill

Bird Oigut re

R'fiH"""ifz tU Hllfl1t .tC.-mclfll,;

Ma.rs.

A llmand Oodlttud Ctllnpbell (S~JUth

Wtlltrrt Noaw)

Cor bin Ctombie Epp Prascr

COM ITt MIXTE SPE:CLAL DU S~NAT ET DE LA CHAMhRE DES COMM UNES SUR I.A CONSTITUTION DU CANADA

Ccprhidnu J: SCniiNt Hvry HI)'$

Suet J~l. dip&!! Rrl"btfflllllllr $JNJJ:

L~ sf!natcun::

(joldenbtrt Lu.cia

Roblin ircmbl~~o)'-{10)

Rrpd.JI'Ifllllfll ,. CAambrt- .la ~fftkltt-1:

Messi-eun

Hawk e. ltwin tnimear t.apierr~

(Qoonun ll)

Ln t'Offfif~n dv COirtitl

Rlc-.hard Prqen1

Paul BC:I is.le

Jolm Club ()j 1ht> Com~trfllnr

N'~lsen N)':ltrom Mn~kMC)'-( 1$)

Pursnnl to $.0. 65(4)(t) of lbe HOUAC o( Comrnont CoofClfmo6me"t .I l'anicJc 6~(1)b) du R~Jkment de la Cham. bre des c:omm1.1net

0.. Wcd~X$day, f)u(utbtt J.. 1910:

Mr. Hclldcnoo ~Mt. AliMaod;

Mr. Wadddl repbC'Cd Mt. \titchcll;

Mr. C6tt rq~laccd Mr. 1.11plcrre:

Miu Campbell (SOMth w,.,, NQl'Q) repltaccd Ml'$. l-l et¥'ieu.t•Pu~tte~

Mr. Lapierte repl1ocd Mr. ltt.nckNOtl:

Mr. ltliauar tqlbetd Mr W1dcldl;

Mr. Ntehca repbml Mr. McOrull:

Mr. Hawl es replaced Mr Bctuy;

Mr. Allmand rcpt,ocd Mrt. C6t!.

Le rnuered1. J 66cembre 1910::

M . Hct'ld<noft rczn~tt M. Albnuct:

M . Waddcll rc.mpllcc M. Mitchell:

M. C61C rcmplncc M. lapierre;

Me. Ctllnpbc-11 (S outh W~Jt No•~r) rcmphu:c M'"' HcrvicuiC· P1ye11e:

M. Lapit.rre runplace M. HenduiiOfl:

M- ltlimt.~r re«\pltc:c: M. Wad&-11:

M. N'"ldtcn rt-~ M. McGnth;

M. 11-a•ltet rempl-1ce M. Sutty;

M. AIJmand rcn'lplace M- C6tC.

Con~titution du Canad11 Jt : J

Pursttanl to an order of the Senate 11d<lptcd N~mbcr ' · 191JO; Conrorm~ment j \In ordtc- du se~t adoplt le S nO¥cmbtc 198(),

Se:rsatot OoWcnbcrJ rcpbM ScMl« Llpoinu. &.ut« A.ndcnoft re-,OC'Cd Seaator Su.~tbwy. Se:oau:.. Blrd rep.C'Cid Scaator Pa.t.ea; Seutor GiJ...UC rcpllecd Sulator Lamootatnc.

....... JIGblc: from._ Ca"'4,.11 0...fnl!lflll Pvbli•hifiJ Cotll~te,811ptf1 •Ill &mioe:1 (:nQid&, l tull. Q.ltbtt, C.~IHI• K ,.., ost

Le s&lateut Goldc.nbcra ~mpta" le Kulcur lapoilltc:;

le sialtcur A .. ttOfl rcmptac:c- k tb.sate•r Sta.nlluty. Le 5&aatwr Brrd tempbooe k sl:Mta11- Pet ten: Le Kaata~I <Ha~ rcmplacc. le sl:n.ateu.r lAmor~t•l•·

.. : .. ORDBR OF RBFERBNCB OFTHB SENATB

Tu~y. ~m~ 2. 1980

ORDERED.-l'hlll the Stutt joi11 with 1he HOUSoe of Com· mom 111 amm:liq tlloc: On$er of RelcrtftCIC crat1111 1illoe Specbl Joitn Commiuee on 1he Constit11tio11 of Cuada by ddcti"'l tbc WQfdt "Occ:cmber 9. 19.80'' ud .wbldt•lina therdor tile wotds "February 6, 1911 .. : and

That :t Mcsaaae be: sent to 1he HouJc or Commons 10 IC'qU.IiDI that Uouse IOOOtdingly.

ATTEST:·

J-12·1910

ORDRB OB RENVOI DU S~NAT

Le m• rdi 2 dEcembtc 1980

/LEST ORDONNt.-Qvte le SE.eltttjoi.pe i la Cba""~ clcs a:wnmdiiiCS pollr lnOdir~~tt rontrc de rM¥Oi i&stitum •

Com.ilf: rn.i;o~le $pkill IIU ,. QlnstitutJo. ctu ea~& ce mn­l'la~altt In mou ., dfumbte 1980.. pit kf mou •6 ~tier 198 1•; cc

Qu'un mc~agc .oil ttantmis i Ill Chnmbc'e: des QOmm~o~no•

po\11 reo infOtmcr. ATT£STt:

1.1 l"'ffln tlw SU.t

Robeft Forcier

Tlte Cltrk of (h• SttJUJU

~~~~~l~-1~9=10~------------------------~COM~~~;~,,='~MM~d~u~C~o:u~da:_ ____________________________ ll . $

ORDER OF REFERENCE OP THE HOUSE OF COM· MONS

Tuctcby. l)ccember 2.. 1980

0HD£RED.-That the Order or Rcft.tc:noc cret~ting the Spcci•l Joint Committee on the Conuit•don or C.n~da be amtHed by dclccina dw: • '«dJ ''Oeotmb« 9, 1980"' ,:nd ••bl:tltutiJI& thtft;for tllte wordt •• Fc.ln1 ry 6, 19.8 1 ": and

Tht • Mc:uqe be ..,., lO the Scu1e to •cquint Their HOIIIOIIf'S ~ ud 10 i11.;1e &!Mm 10 Joi• <ai\11 O.is H~M~t in tk aforcmeadooed acdoa.

A TTI:'Sr.

ORDRE DE RENVOI DB LA CHAMBRE DES COMM U· NES

Le mardll dtct.tnbte 1980

/L EST ORI>ONNt..-Que l'ordrc de renvoi infiii UII~t le ComiiC mhtc rp6clal sur la CoMdtutioo du Cal\ldl .olt modlnE c.n rcmpl~nt In mou c9 dCeembrc 19'8(). ,., lea

moll"' r~nct 19ll o; ct Q-'wa mctA.tt toll ~ u $Cn.at poa.r cft iflftw111c"t lnf'l

HaeMUn « la """''"' l toe joiftdre i la CIYmbre ,_, dT<alfoff la MOdJfta.&Joa audile.

ATTCSTt:

Lr (irdJWr lk la ChtWtbl-r dt-1 f'fli"llt!MIN't

C. 8. KOBSTER

Tltr Clu.k of lite Ho11u QjCommmu

18 : 6

MINU"l'ES OF PRoctf.OINGS

WEONF.SDAY. DECEMOER J, 1980 ()J)

I r,.rr) Tilt Special JQim Com.miucc • tllc Conflitwl* ot Caaadl

IMI at J :J9 o'doct p..m.., thb d.ly, tlw Joi.'lt C\tinMO. the: Honourable Serutor Ha)t, Pf'CIIoidiq.

M rmbut of the Commiuu {N't3tlll:

Rt P"IMtlng lil t S1mH1: The Honouruble S.MIOrl Andu• JOII, A.tllelln, Austin, Bird, OIJU~te-, Goldcnber1. tl t)'l, Lueier and Roblin.

OtArr StMtOI' PNStlll: TM Honourable Se.ft~tot B~l i&Ja.

RrpHIIltlitrz t/u Ht1foH of 0,...11'0U: Mtur~. AJhnaJ'Cl. locbtad. Mist Campbd (SOIIJA Wt'U JVcno11). Meun. C«bi"· E,p. Ftuer, Ha•ta. I,. la. htinuu, JO)'tlr. lapitftt. M~~:d.uey, Ni-tlsu and Ny.nrom.

OrA" .Wembfr prtsrN: Mr. Bcauy. I If RlftflriaN:t;' From tltt Parllamatary Ctlll f'#: Mr. h ler

Oobell. Director. FrtJn• Jltf/ Rtuorclt Bratfflr qf tht Ubror)' qf Parllttn, nl: Mr. h ul M1nln.

WtrMsSt$: F'rom the CowNtlfq~ Yd tM/ndiD/41. Mr. Elijah Smhll. Vicc-CIWrman; Mr. OavMI Joc.. Lcp.l C..atd: Mr. HttTJ AJb. Cfu..it"ma; Mr. MkUd Smith. Upl Coullld.

Tile Com:miuu ruumcd CIO&ticknuon of its Otdcr ol Rd· crtocc rrom the SQI~tc d"tcd NOJ'C:rn.bct 3. 19SO •fld lu Ordct ol Rc.rere:nce from the HouM ol Commons dat«<: October lJ, 1980. both rcb tins to tbe document entillcd "Proposed Rc::ro-­luclon ol a Joint A6drc11 tu Ht t Majesty tbc Queen tt'.tpcctlns the Coru.tltutJon of Canada" publit htd by t he Government on October 2. 1980. (Sn MlrM~I qf Pt«udlrtJI. 1'1um.day. Nowm.Wr 6, /980, lm•t No. 1.)

Mr. Alkn made a illtUI'\UIC aad with che witneua.. a...-.ctW quaticm.

At $:21 o'doct p.m., tiM: C«nmi:tttt adjowMCI1o dw call ol theCiuir.

PROdS-VERBAL

LBM BRCI\ EDi l DECEMBRE 1980 (3l)

ITntdiiNHJ~t)

J.ll-1980

Le eo.Ntf: • b.tc tpEd&1 .kr la eo..t1tvtU1 d~ Cuada K rftuUt au)OIInf'h•l I IS. 19. aou b ~nee d• Jlt12tnt Ua~ (coswftidcnt).

M.t~mbNI ' " CoMiti P'l#rtU: RtfU~Ufl.fflltl I• Sinal: Us bonortbl~ .~lnateurs Al\dcrwun,

Anclin. AuJifn, Bird, Ciau! re. Ooldenbers, llatt . Luder et Robli.n.

A11tn 1bNtlt1" P'Wnt: l'honorable kn.atcur Biellsh. R~jW'hnetoN I• Chmbu dr1 tot~~t"llllltl, MM. Allmai'CS,

Boo:bta.cl M• Campbdl (Scwr.\ Wm NtAW), MM. Coriliftr, Epp.. Fnw. Ha• ta.. lrwiD,. h tinuar, Joyal, Lapiern.. Macb· 31ey, Nichert et Nrurom.

Avut dlpwt~ ,twrt: M. BcJuy.

A u-ssl pr/l•ntl.' 0.. c~"'" fXUIIMtflllfl'f: M. Peter l):lbell. direc;1eur. Dlf ~·fl,..,iu J~ rt~hrrrhu d1 Ill Ribliorh~ll# du Parlrm.nt: M. Paul M11tin.

Thnoiru.- /)u CtJunt'il/tJr YuJ:rm lnrll•m: M. Elijah Smith, vicc-ptCsWIC.-t; M, 01vic1 Joc, S\'Clcal+OOftKil; M. Harry Alkn, pr&itb1: M. \tkt.ul Smit.h. ll!OC*t~.

Le- Co..Ctf tcprei\CI r llcdot ck .so. orclrc ck mnooi eh& SC.1. dV J ~mbfc 198(). et de $10ft OfdtC de Hll'n:Ji de b Q~mtwe

des c-ommuna., d u l:J octobre 19~ tout cktu, po«anc 141' le dO«ament lntiiUit oProjet de rEiOiutkMI portant adtesse com· mune a Sn Maje11d la Rcine conocrnut la Constitutioo d11 Cana.da:o, publt6 pur le g.o11ve.ncmcnt lo 2 octobtt 1930. {Vol,. ~,..~~rbol dw )fwdl 6 ~.,mb,# 198(1, Foscicvl" ,. I.)

M . A(kn '•it lUX dldan.tioe ,. ... l\tt kt t~ tEpoftd au qvatbw.

A 1111111, k Comitf: m;pcrtcf 1a lt1¥U1 j.sqw'i IWU'I'Ctlc c:om'OCll.tkln d11 prbidut.

/..t.J rornffl~TI d"' Comlrl

Ric:btlrd Pre&ent

Paul Bf:lisle

JDIIII Clrrls qf lhl' eom,,,,.,

-

)-ll-1980

EVIDENCE

(Rtrordrd by £1mroolr Appnr4rtu.r)

Wcdonda)', December ), 1980

(f,xrr)

• IS40

Thr Jollw C'lla.ilwatt (&ulor H111): ~hy I pkue caJJ Lhe IIIWICli:n&to order. 1lak aftttt~OOII ti>Ci are hoRcM&rcd to ba1-e the Coucil for Yukoo lndiau llere rfJifft'Mlcd b)' Mr. Hany Alb. the Cllairmla. Oo be:IUif of m,y Joillit CIU.•mua. Mr. )oylll, ud members et/ tM COfUIJncc. we •~ JOU bcre. I .......... llu.t J'OC Ml'C: • •'-' ptUC:IlUtMMt a.lllf beJor~ ~ .. "" that we ...ou.kl lib: you tO lnctod liCe your collasun pclllC. Mr. Alkn.

Mr. Man)' Alka (Ch:alr•• a. C..~ll (or Yukoo lnliaos): Thant )W. Mr. Chairm01on. f<1nt or 1111. l wouJd like to f~ttrodt.tce nty people to you. lmmcdlatcJy on my ria.ht ir Mr. Dv.vkt Joe. Ictal ttd~·litr aftd land dalmll negotiator for our

' people. NCJtt to Onid Joe i• Mr. Elijllh Smith wboo is the Yito-Chairmac of the Council for Yukon lndianr., ruponiible for laDCI daimi. lmmt:dlatcly 0«1 my Jell •-e have Micbael Smith •·bo is our ksal eou.nset and a~MKJ alld alto our land d&UN neJO(iator and my~elf, Ha,.,., Allotn, tht Cbai:nna.n of the Cou:ftclJ et/ Y don J.adiaftL

Mr. C1Yirmu, honou.nhlt ~nt.bcn a/ t•il O:llnmittee. dte fact t .. t we are bcte bdorc JOlt IOday tpub to lk ~.mp:w. U.lft W~ t.ttat:lll 10 dtesc proocod'IJtp. You will t DOW ~ lli'OI'IJty " .. velobbied ror tll' cbrw;c 10 make a tubmissioa. aM I thcteforc want to thank )'OU fot th1• opportunity to CIOftiiC)' lbe v~wfl of my people.

The Council for Yukon India m rcpraeniJ tbc upprollimate. fy 6,000 1ndian ~oplc living In the Yukon. In eettain rcspcct.s we are a unjque people bccauJe ...,-e h1111c-chOJcn, i u«:eflflfuUy, 10 0\'CI'OOII'lt· tbt desig.ttatioft of l tltUI IUMI oont.IAIU' lndia.ru daJ&utionl • ·hich were created by your I OIIC"!'flmettt.

DuriJt& the la.s:t year, our 12 Yuton comm•nitie5 decided 10 amalp.mate a.nd rorm ~e CC:IIIrtJ India• p--ertUnent. tbe Coo.ftcll f« Y•ko. IJid'i&M.

l a tctmJ tJI t1loe rupornr.t.'bllitiel ,..T hnc lo ou_r peopk. ocr DG&lbn:porwal role: • to MI'QWIIC • .teltltcMM. 'lrlith Ca.uda 10 tllat o•u aborigin:IJ ri&!!u, oar rishet u tbe ori.pul qwaen and oec:•p;ants ol tllc Yuk.on. tt'C dearly dcftft.Cd and enttc:ncbc:d.

In addition to this role, we arc aliO larscly responsible for improvln.t our people's diahcartcnin.a toelal and Ct.'<lnomlc oott· ditlons, We ha ... e-a numbc1 of prosran!J in place and we •re in the: PI"'ecSs of dei'igninJ •nd nHcmptlna h> CjtabUsh new oocs.

Althouab we bii\'C mack QOIIIidcl'lbtc prog~ In the Jut decade. Mr. Cba.irmsn. and have briJ.ht expe4;t1tions fc.n our peopk't future, we arc hut today boclliliC the CO"CI'I'Iment'a eonttitutional propo6&k will, if tllac:lcd, jropanhu our bopes cl a.t.abli:Uii~ ru::ag.Ntioft cl tltc rl.Jhtt: and pt'QCed.iom wilD .. , people cbt:tYe.. SurdJ 110 ooc oo tlth Conu"btc wocld

--~~ Mda U OIIIC'OIIIX.

TtMOIGNACO:S

(t.'nrtJitlrtmtllt ~lft'II"(Nl/qut)

Lt mer<lrcdll d~cc.mbrc 1980

(TtadMi't/(Hf)

11 ; 7

U ~oprkl4tw~C (Maatrw H.ayJ): U .UnDCI eft ouvcrlo. ~~ apt~mkt1 110111$ .VOM rhonon.tur de r~r k CoftKJI da htdieal: d• Yukoo rc.prQc:atC pu M. Harry Alba, )ritUc111. Au 11011\ d• ~ M • .lo)'al. et dei ~M~nbrcs. dta Conitl.

IIOUif *""""' lwurtU~ 4e YOU$ accueillir. Je CI"CCIia •"'* q.­\'Oin a.'f'C~: •nt btm dideratioct i ftkc. ~~t~is. .. ,.,., ..... motli:inl.r AfiCII. t'Ottkl.•YOUJ bien 110U$ pd#ltt.cr "011 ooUfpa..

M. H1try All~• (Pt-hl4t~tt, Const-il cfu l•lfiHI If• \'ul.t~t~):

Mctci, monsieur le ptCtident. Tout d'abord, j'almctlllt 'IOIIJ priientcr rncs collab<lrateurs.. A mo dt'Oile-Ae trou~o M. O&vld Joe, con~lllcr j\lrldtquc.. ebaf1E. des nC,O(:i llions 111r lu rcvcn· dicatioo5 tcrritorht.la de nottt· pe-uple-. A clltt de Davld Joc, te tr01111e M. EJijab Smith, orice-pr-Ciicknt du Conlell det lncllena du YukOtt, ret;ponublc det f"C'\'endications tcrrilori•k:J. A ma aa..che K trou._ Mlcbat.l Smith. ootre oott&eiUcr jurldique, ~kmvu chara6 dct ne,odlticm rur kl tn-e~ieatiON tttri· torialei, et je MIJI moi·mtmc Hany AlleA, ~~ d11 Conat/1 4cf lll4i~tM diJ Y •koa.

MOIIINCWt k pmidt81. booorabk$ mcmllfa ft Coft1l lliOtff pr&c:.ce id a.UO.rd'1nu t.Cmoi!JIC de MlhfO'UIICC que nous attac-J.oM I .,. dCiiWnt:iot.u. Vous savn combtce IIOilt

&"fOCI c:Actd de ptaslons pou.r pouvoit pt&clltu notrc mimolre; PI' cotwfquent, je vou:s rcmttde-de J•occaJion que YOUI no1u orrrn de wou• prbcnt« le point de vue de nocrt peuplc:.

le. Conttll du lndic:m du Yukon reprlunte envirot~ 6,000 lndieM viv11nt 1111 Yukon, A certains igards MUa repretentoM u.n pcuplt unique en cc .cna que.. weceulwmenl, nou1 IVOAI choW de rtpouuu l e~ dttlipation3 d'lndic:ns inwcritJ c.1 cl 'ln• dicn1 non·intcrhl, d&lgnadoM ctt«s par votre aou~tll(.mc•t

l'ann~ duailrc, ~M~& 12 oollectivit& du v~,~~tot~ ont dkld~ de .e rf:.nir pour (ormCf "'" IOO"cti'ICJ!ltlll iadic:lt CdltnJ, k CoMcil des htchc:nt d11 Y •l.cm.

t.a prindp~k c1a raponN.bilit& qK DOIII CUf9JM 1 r fprd ck lOire prupk COfteemc la n4od*tioa d"uc tlllmte a't'IC k Catwb poer q;R 11101 dn:lits cl'abon~ 11101 droit~ C" Ual qve propnftairtt et OCX'IIpaA.U otiJjnc:b du Y•koft. 10itt11

datrrment dflinit et inclut.

En pfUJ de cc r6£c. nous avon~ au.ui wflo.t ~me retpott· sablllt6 d'amtlkwet let conditions m.isErablcs: da.ns ksqutlla notre pcuple vil du point dt.t '1'\JC $0clal e1 ~omlq~;~e, Nout avonl d6jA lance un ccr1aln nornbrc. de prOflllmmu et nout i()mmti Cri ttt lll d'cn t l-11borer cl d'en luncer de ftOU\'4:!8 Uk.

Bien que 1101» llyort• fblli~ des progrts oortlid!rublet au OOIJr' de la dunKrc decc:nnic., montieur k pr&ldent, et bitn que IMJIIIj ~t~M~rrlnloAI de .anMs espoin qvant • l'a'lt'ftlr de 1101re pc.upolc.. nou• tommwlei aujourd'l::td pe_ru que la propo. t itions C!MidtwttoMdks 4hl ~l. d dkt 10111 a.4op-16ts.. mcMOrtOM fti!Mre upoir d•aua.ru la fiiClOftllot-.ncc del dtcitt rt dQ J'fOlethOIU Cij'UC fiOire petlpk m&i:t... lJ ftl «l'fl)ft

18 : .

JTrn)

I Intend to d11borat~ on tht point. Mr. Otairmotn, Mt first I thil'llt it it imJXH1-ant to clear up an.y miiulldcffillll'ldinll •hich mot)' 1\a'oC ~uhOO from. tbe app:aranoc, btt week. ol n~~praentadvu ()4 tile YukQn tc:-ritori:ll g\l~e1n1nent, I ~nn doh brie.Oy and lflt.'Cifically:

Fiut , wllh l'tifl'.'Ct to Mr. Pcanon's .-tatcmcntt concerning the nature o( m)' pc:oplc'5 rclati<>n~hip whh the Yukon tc"ito­rial JO'Ietl'lment. I lta\'t to say that while we are cl'fiBted people and uut each o11Kr aceordin.gly, there cenainly ultt, at Mr. PtllltOn it fully aware, proloulld d.ifterc:IIC.'ti in our rupttdYe n~ ... aJpira tionl, aDd COJIOC(II$,

s.eeo.d, the Y'*"- l.t.ia.11 people .,.e -. OC'flOkd, u w-.u :wuut.cd. to dc-odopnent. Id tlw member~ c/th11 Commit· '" to re·rud my letter whic:fl wu tabled b1t • ·eel: by tile Yutotl tcrritorl•l P"trn.me:nt. 1t should~ plain to sec tlut I asked my counterpart, Mr. Pcanlon., to repeat bdorc you the often •taled polky of his loYCrnm<:nt that 1 .tcttle-mcl'lt of Olilt ri&hls uakct prl«lty CJ'I"er the: auainment or provlnclnl alll liU. ThAt lt not 11. rdct-tion or dC\·elopmtnt. ihl\t b juu ll ICCQ~nt~ tion of a truth, w-ithout -.hich there can be no jtn l scttlelnCJII,

And. nnally, lout •-eelt my ooun1erpat1 stalod t.l hit liucl tGrtion '"-' abottg.i11al f'iahts m•st be proccc:uld ud utmiC'i»cd In tbc: Ouudiu CONtitudoa. Evnyone he« knows that ·~ Jlllpport U.i1 •'boldlcartcdly. At tk u.me dmr. Mr. O.itft.J"- I U.-c 10 p:li11t 01:1 lhll. ~ubly, Mr. Punoe'• ttatnM:III rcptdiq: abonaiul ri!hts besn t•nk rdllloN,_IP to l:is p~rn.mut"s put actions. In ract. Mr. Cllallt!IIA. tk di:Ktcp~~My ktwcc• w-Otlt and deed U to arcat llwltthe Y-..ko• tnrhorlal tO'Ictnmcnt'' ttatc:meot smacb Ita 1)1 pri.ndpk thaa of public n~~l.atiom. 8cc.au$C there art CMhcr prc:uma maucrl, I prefer not to spend any more time on thb item now, but If an)'(H'Ie b il'lll:n:ittd r would be plc11~c:d 10 dubort~ tc durln& t he q~o~c:tl k>n pcri<Jd,

I lhcrcrore twrn !'IOW, Mr. Chairman, to more 1\uwilllncntal oonccm•.

SIJ~Ct 197 J. the eo.na for Y•kon lnd~o~ns at~d the Cuadiu pcrarnt~ h.tvt b«n au~~· titroup C1011Juh116on .~ lltJotiuioo. 10 pt'Odua • coc:np-e:hMd~ wnklntet ol thc­$J~f«UIIbor;,iMJ rilltb and freedoa110 ol011r peoopte.

Wllc:11 •c arnq: at a n:.w avu:m.e•t. Mr. C'hairmall, k • Ill kne 11 ptOI'~nd impaa on my pcopte. ltnd Oft tile v.toa. nu ''"cmcnt wtll determine what it mc:a.m 10 be a Yukon lnd•all: it will cklinc my pcuplc'l toeial, political, c:~o~lt11nl ud econom­ic:- riJhtl and ftccd()IIU, As well, Mr. Ch:airman, 11 k ob'liC).IJ tlwll oor aarecmcnt will ~t:.tblish a new IOCinl nnd pullllcal arr~~n&cmen t • ·hhln the Yukon tomitory. For, In uddhion to tht thit\~ I just mentioned, our sc::lllcmcnt will ll lk>w •ny people to work IOfelher with noll-nativ-e. Yukoncr• 10 b~o~lld n YukOft toe.lc:ty u.f' whk h all Can;tdians will be pr111.1d.

3-ll-1980

(Tr•mhrkw) que pct'$0Ut ~rm1 la II'ICftlbfu d• Comiti ne toultlaitc qH J"oa en arri'ft" i lltle telk UAC.

MonsiQit le prbicknt, ,c mic.ndrai sur " j:'Oillt Ffus tatd, mats.. aup!rllvant, je. J!C1'1K qu'tl lmpottC' de dissipcr la ~lcn· tendliiS qui IUlraient pu llllfUC du f•tt de Ill COmp!t ution, b scma[ne: derttiere. dcs rcpr&cntanu du aouvCJncmem tenito­riul du Yukon. Jc sua I brcrc:t p"*t:l~' C:t propoe.

Tout d'abord, en oe qut cont:t-,ne la di:claration de. M. Pellr~W>n s~o~r la nature det~ llc.nt cnt.re nottc pc"Uplc et I ~

gou~-crnc:ment tc:Nitorb l du Yukon, jc: <k;is dire que. mbnc a:i now sornme.a un pe~o~plt cl.,dlit et que DOIII nous traiton• mutu.dlemcnt e:n c:onifqurncc.. 11 eli,tt auu.rl:me-.nt. rommc:: M. Peanoo k Ait fort blcn, del dJ«&enc:a prof'ondd e:n:tre ftOil

pointa de ·~ ao. atpnt.hOilt et 10 Jlfi:ocapatx:.l

... -~t. contraltUMGI ! cc q.-011 a bml catmdrc..

le pnlpk iacfic:n cht Y•koft II'CIIt ,... opp»t •• 4f:oldoppcmctL

Jc: dcmandc:n.i au mtmbta ctu Cottutf de rdi.tc ms kttn; q• le p~rn.ement 1crritorial du Yukoo 11 dipottic la sem3Jae: dc:rniin~~. 11 est facik 4c C:i)fl"""' que j'y demande i mOCI homo5ojue, M. Ptarson, de r~~tcr ~ jXIIitique ~MintC!I fob dielar~c: de SOil JOUverncmcnt tdon laquclle le r(alement d~ pf'Qf)~Cmc~ conoerntnt nos droitt a prlorll6 Sl.lt l'obtentWn du statu.t de province. 11 ne s'aah put I ~ d'11n rcjct du d~loppr· MW:rtt. Jl s'agil simplcmcnt de la r«<nnaiu.anoc d'une virit6, ans lnquefle U M pcut y avoir de r~tk:mtnt juste.

f inalc;mcnt, moa homoolosuo a dfdare la S&e.maioc derniCre q~K b droiiJ; des ·~ dt"·aient hre proti!& rt JDCI:us dan:~ la Corm:itatiOil c.a~ditt!K. Chaeu• uit que 1101n

IJIPIJ'OCI' « priJIIdpe:. de lOIIt cc:n;r Puall&mmt. I!IIOiftSicw k pdsicklll. jc doU lipakt q-. ...uacu~ la dldan· oo. ~ ~t. Punc. ,., let ctto.u da a boricltiC$ a P" de rapp.:wt aft'C fa aetloa putfa ck 10ft I(IUorunanc:ttL En: ft.i,, mon:sicwr le: prmclern, le dfctlaac entre. la parob et ks SHtts nt si panel que. au lieu d'une dfdar~~tion: de:: prioripc, il tcmble plut6t s'agb d'\ln d(Oft de rcta1io.u publiques.. Commc: il y a d'autres que:nion~ ur~C!ntes, jc p«fire ne p01s m"att.arder ~ur ee !X)int maintcna.nt, mnlt je ~uu.l ru.vi d'y revc:nir pcndnnt lo pbklde dd qucstlotli, si cdu ln l,~e l'urt ou I'll ne d'entrc:

""''· Mo.Wwr le prCddcnl, j'en ar1ive. par consCquent ll du

prioecupuions plut fonchmc.ntak-.

De:Jl'lit 197). k Consdl da l ndtcot d11 Yukon et k !011\'C'f· ncmut cuadieft <I'll aita)'i. p~r le blath de COI'ISI.IItatiOM d Mpd.Jiont, de pn:ldaire ua rtJ;km«<t &tobal des droiu. abori­~ sp6ciau' d l!es libttt& dt ftOIK pc:aplc.

Moasinl lot prbide•t. ratct~lc i bq•dk .:m atmero. aura • ne inadcna- pro(onde ... , .otR pc•pk et sat le VulDrl. Elk cUtttrni.nera cc q11'1 vcu1 dirt ftre ua llldiera dw Yuko~~; elle d&crmiacta let dtolll et In hbcrtis ck nottt pet~ pie Slu la plaRS soci.al, politique~ ~ultureJ a «ooomique. Mootkur le ptbldenl. it est ij:alemcnt clulr que c:cuc entente Ctablirll un no~;~Ycl ilrtang~mrnt pofltlquc et aodnl 11u sdn _du _tcrritoite ~"' Yukeon, En c::ffa., en piu~ cl~ 1>011111 ntu~quel s JC vten$ d~ f1me nllusH>n. elle permeura i notre pc:uple de ttavailk:r avrc la habitants du. Yul:on no.n or!ainaira de t-el te rigian pour constl'uite une S«ietC dont tou.~ la CIJiadirn& &«0111 ficn.

).12·1980 Constitatiotl du Ca•da 11 :9

(TL-'tl As I saXI earlier, I arn here befo1e you today bCQII\1~ the

proposall )'OU are consideli"J serlouJiy ptc:judlot our a bilit)' to a..:hieve those obje.octl\'tS;.

1 u1: )'011. Mr. C11airm~n. membeN or thiJ Committee. to lbow ~ne ••btre i:n the. perltrfiC.nt 'l ettrrt:nt profiOSlls tbere is f«<OJ'itiOII lllat the natl\<t ~le are a aaj,quc., $p0Ci.al srot~P o1 Ca.nadi.ullt WMR: does it C!k.arty ~ay t~.u we U11e &peeial riptJ -~ ne..- fn:.n Clllr ~ t &at• u the lira aalioes of t..l* OO.IKIY· Wtxft., ,\lr. Cl.aJr..,a, •pedfacally ackft"Q~;JE! tk cawo ol the Yatoo. doCf ,_, doamltftc ol fudamencal trcedoms say tbt tk ripa wl!lie:la • e arc Clllrrcr~dy ttqOtiat· 5na wiD be: entrenc:bed CIOilStitlitloaall,.?

The me:mben of the Committee bow tllat the: prop::ascd Charter does not dearly .set 0111 nny ol ttle11e thln.g:g. The Native Coundl of Ca nada dealt with that tuperbly, j ll3t ymerday. Wb)' is it &O Mr. Chainn/ln?

How i5 it that your ~-ernmtnt Clln Jwtlfy )"00,. brOJ-d fi'OPOI*b by sayi.na that C.nadiu• h.a~-e bu11 -.·ait:ina 11 3 yc:ar1 f« a mack·i~nada C!OflttfHnion and, at tlat same tilDe, (&:oore the [act tlat WC h&YC been Wtiliftl, foo- m11dl klcla« for • si.mpk dcclarttiofl ol O.f nght.d I thiftk tbe. •111 ben of this Commiuce U.O.kl ,tvc liOIIle ~&ht to Just ~ bta we lla'"' been nrtiJI& al!ld. 11 lllc aame time. t.lliftk a r.it lbotit tlloe. ilnmcti.sc pcn.al and n~ll•nJ COU:S VC lilaYe toc.trcd d:urin£ d121 wsi.L

I Qll11.not fldp belt .ncdec Lllat the PI'OC*Cd ~rter lirmJy n'ltJCOc.ha tbc fu~mcfltal ri.J,h!J of (&M.djtru., indlldin&. Mr. Chairmatt. tbc: riatus of fonuc Culldlut ..ot )let bom. •"" the rlahtt of future C'a"11dlu1 not yet immiall'ated to C.ntda, I tsk tbe member. or tM• Com1niucc to e:cpt.in to me, and to my people, why we can .not huve oo:r rigbu: cnttetlched D$ wd l? Why is it that we hAve to wail urrtil al'\er patriation? Have we not alrudy bew waiting long:er than IJifOM tlte?

I rarlher ooticcd, Mr. Chairman. U\l t in a rccc:nt letter to tbe Praide.at of the Nuiotl1l II'Mii .. Brod~oe:rhood. tbe Prime. Miakttf" says thu ou:r pDOflk •in find it usicr, ra thu Lha.tl .,.,.,, to ea~ o.~r nJ)Iu the. petriatioll. He attribctu lWt to llle ... loud ..._tarity and tcNe ol atMr'O!tity that a ~l.a.C.mda c:uwtltuliae wlll CtftiC •• Ca.MIINIM-

,_h. Chatrma.n.. I 00 110t wish tO qua.110n Ottr Prime Miftis· 1u•1 celebrated i.n teUed, b111 try 11 I mlj.M. I fail to- sec tbc !otic of hli view.

h sc:c:ms to me that if my people e~nnot oonvinc::c: )'OU, today, tO try )'Wr hand a1 red1:tflin& In order to nek.nowltdge. and protect our special st all~$, ttle.n, Mr. CIUIImun. I a&k )'00 and the otbes Comtl)htce mcn\bttl to piMft t.l(JII.IIIIi 10 n\e aod my poopk how we. will rind it ~uitr afte.1 palriation.

I I M sure )'0\1 appredate 0111 dllemm1: in ''le"' of the PfOpolcJd .. )Ctldiq formull. alld t-.c taow.-n atlit.uclc:& or nri· OIQ pnM.ciaJ ~ how iln pc»Nbk tU.t -e 'lriJI fdld

(Tr•dwtlonl Cam1ne Je l'11 i dit pricedemm~nt, now: prhenee k l auj:~ur·

d'hui tt.moianc: du fait que les proposition$ doni ~~~ 'tcJ Ml,lt ponent un p~jud i..:c grave A nos capa<:iiCs d 'atte.lndre er~ objeelirt.

Montieur le pr6sident, mC$$ieunl t>t mtSdamei lea me1.nbfet d11 Com.ili, jc \'OV• ckmlftde de me. mont ru oU, 41 ni kt propolitkllll tC't~la dv pYttllemCflt, on re<:on.Mit qu~ kil aut.Qeht.ona ooutit.ocnt •11 lfOUpt' ucniQ~. lift J.fOUpc JJ)kial de C.udicu. ()(I ut·il dil q• nou joui_, 6c chiu apltb:u ~ant de .ottt :W.Ull ~t~CUttal de !ftm*'­lliiUOM dv pa)l1 Oil. momielu le prCwdoent, JIC*r park:t ptk:i­s&Mtlt d• OJ d• Y11to., nt-U dit da& vocrc ckamc•n .w ta libertb foMerncn•akl qiK la droiu que I'IOU:I M,OOOM ae.t ucllcmcllllt'IOnt iDCIIH dacu 11 cor-ttitutiOII?

Ln mc:mbtu dli ComitC Mve.nt que le projct ck ehartc ne. prCci~e rie11 d~ t~l oelt. 11 • ranu anendre bicn htcr pour que le- Consdl de1 autOGhtOnt:t du Canada en traitc, et de (•90fl tuptrbo. Mon;akur le p..Ui<lcnt. pourquol en cn·ll alntl?

Cotnn1ent u foJt •il que '·otrc gouve.ttltmel'lt peut juulfiu va, propot.-ltiollt e.n diunt que kt Can.adiens anendcnt dtpuls I J.) ..,, uM oonsthutlon ftite tu C&llad• tout en dtcournarn let yet~• d11 fait que "--US aue:l)od.o.nl dcpuis be:avoollp plu1 IO«<J· CC1l'IJII llM ai:mpk dklaretion de: 1101 drolu! Je pee~e que la mtmbra da Comjt~ fkv,..bit rffi6ebif 5Uf 10Uie CldiC pf:nock peacb.M ttqadlc -.s at<OnS anmdu et. J'll.niWkmcnc. ik ...... lent tOf!ICf au iBmellfoC$ C!Cif!S pe:nort.Mk tt twftaret. q~~e nou nOM •~tCCM~rut petldaa1 ceue tttentc.

Je M pui• m'•mpkhtt de rcmarquer qce le proJ« de ehlrtc i11C'JUt lea droiu (ond;uncntauA des Ca.nadicu, y comf)l'lf. mons:i~r le ptOident, let droiu des futun Canadteftl, p.as enc:o~ nb, •• lu drolu ck& futun C.n~d~l\l q~ti n'onl ,., ci\Core lmmltr~ ou Can~Jdll. Je doecm:~.ndeau.x membret de "otrc c:omit~ de m'upllqucr, et d'c.-:pliquer a notre peuplo, f'J(lurquoi noe droll~ ne I)(;U\'I.'tll piU ~Ire auS$i inc:tus duns c:c:Uc ch1111e'/ P<lurquoi ft ut•ll que nou1 auendlanS; apre:. le rapotrlem~llt1 N'aVOIU•'II®l pltl ~j· aue.ndu plus que.n'importt qui d'autre.!

Moni.!e.ur le pthldtllt, jt ttmarquc et'l outre q~K, da.u ufMI kttre qu'll a r6ccmment t~~l'0)'6e au pr&idcftt de la F'rt~te.rnit' utiouk etc. ~~~M. le premier minb:tre dklart qu'•l wn pi Ill ladle poar nocre pc•ple de faire inc::IW"C 1101 ctroitt aprh le tiJ*trifmnt. 11 tltrii:Mie cda i R. IIIOU"'dk. 11\alllntf d IU K'llltilftelll de J,ffthol.ic.f q•'ue OMJii!IIIIQIII f.-te I U C. .. ulut pel'llli let C.lllldlfllt.

M-oMicll' k ptbiclmt, je ne _,.h;aite pu ~trc: ea ~a­lion. ItS comphcnca 111ttUectuellc:s fort RpulCH de ~tt prcmi« m1niJtrc, m&Jl JC ne p~mctts: pas 6 voir la 'otiquc de eetaravmenl.

A mon humble avls, si notrt peuple ne pc:u.t PA• VOUII oon'llincrc aujo11rd'ltu.l de modifier la rCd.action de. cc tute pOur que l'on ft:CI(H'InaiJu et que l'on pr01~se n~n: lltlllut spCe.i11l ., , , ;c vou.• de:mande.mi, m0n.1l~ur k prb.ident, 1nt:~· &ie.urt et n\ttdllnlt:lllft mcmbfes du ComitC~ d~ nou• t~tplkjucr c:omme-.nt oe 1er1 piu• r.c:ile ap~ le rapauicmcnt.

Je su-. ccrt1h1 que vous comprenu. Jc d.ikmnK auq.,e,l fiOUl de\'Oiftl falte flOe:: Compte lC:IIU de la fonn11k d"11Dtft6cfMftl. qai • fU pt~ compte tu~u des attitude~ COftflva: dol

18 : 10 Constitution or Cal'lad~ l·lloi9SO

ITtxr) 11 cuiet tO C"l~ t((ll)plit:ioll o( OU.r rights af'" ptU,.d007 S.td1, 1ft the' CU'UI!Dtat~CCS. £t WOUW be f-ar JnOK lotbJ for thf: f!Cdcral pcrllmc:nt to C'.\ctcbe 1U owo autltorlty,IIOW'. and

amend t.he ptopoi•b. to giv~ u~ the rttogtlition and prot«tiotl we ba\•e be..:n w~itin1 for ~incc yo.ur l'lnQC.S.tors first auived.

Mr. Cbinnan. I bw I eta M(dy tay that thue b .ot a

•in&k pcnon o~t ym~r CornmlU", or in this room. Ot •·H'-h:il'll

On tdevision, ll·ho docll not icDOW tltllt we ,_~re ~re fitfl, wbo

does ROt bow that we h.ave been here for ICIU or thoutands or )'CIH ...

Yo. Mr. Chl.irman. J thl.nk you and )'(!tit Cc!mmiu«

mcmbm • ill •ttcc c.laat ,.,. would be banJ.pn:uod &o fi.t Canld:i;:as •!10 •re proOO ol tlk butor'b.l tdationt~up be­twwt tu, the «iainal pel)pld, u d )'OU the rufint I'Mjority.

Wby b this, Mr. CMJrman1 How I• h that Cantdllnf do not

cue to boast !100\11 Our reladOn3hip, inde-ed, talk or it only ra.rtly and only wh~ prestoed.

1t seems to •• \fr. Chaimua,tlw.t tboK \rlllb ol qllatloRf

~k din::aly to tile Mtu.R olthc COMtituticm • lltdl )'0'1 are rcdral'tiog. Either tht Cbtt« o( Rl&htJ crutd new rd11 ti<1n· ah ips or it oonnrmt old inju..ulca. That doci~it'ln lt firmly in

your hamb. But tbt out<"Ome ol you.r dclibc,. tion~ what~r they may

k wike d11«1ly at tlte fu.tu-rt of the eo...a1 for Yu:koo

lllldlaAl. I ftiMCM rcpra1 it toO olica.. T1w settfemnrlc • hkh ·~ arc, i.n sood fahl't, altnnptin.& to ~fOtiilte, daU •lth a.ll w r rlahts and rrecdom., larxl «:l~•fnj. raourws., huntina. n•hin.J.

trnpping. education, soda! and cc:onomlc policy, proa.tllmt fot our dderJ;, gO\·ernmcntlll innitutioM~ in s h<Jrt, our fut ure a• a people. Unku 011r w:nkmcnt it tOt.n to be emre:~hod by tbe prouctiou con.t~IIICd ia U.C OOfb;tJUHIOI, .it en be: subjta to

.. ler att:!d., polft!Cat and lqal

This Committee mu11 not pern1h tlult to happcu\, Thut is ft.~ndament~lly why ""'Care here bcforo you.

1'k Joint ett..lr••n (Sf.IUIIOf Jhya): Tbank you very much. Mr. Alien. Mr. Nld&c:n followed by Mr. lttinuur.

Mr. NieM•: Tltank you-, Mr. Chalnna.n..

May I add "'Y •da:Jme to my fellow Ca.o.adiaM alld fdlow

Y11kOilCtS. ud MY lf'llittldc ift Mdoj that tltcy lltavr tinaUy won thoe ri&ht to appu.r befotc: dtit Joint Committee to c:..prus their con«rtU v. ith mp«t to the proposed eonthutional changes. In a..tdltlcw• to Mr. Alien IIJ Chaltman or the CYI and

thtlfc: th~t arc bdore tht Commiuc:e, they ~re supported by ut latl a doul'l lnOfe Yukonus tllal ate sittina in 'fie publk

a.dlay. I mtJ}It alto poi•a out. too. 111 the utty dc,doplnc:al of Pf'OI~I'IIS that haYe km pu ill torn 1n Vu:\o. that Mr Joe it

JTrm..,l•liOtf) df"Ctt pfU'nCIITICliiJ ptOYt.ndau-~ COI'IUntlll ROU' flc:l'l.+il pl~tJ

r~rik de (~:~re: r«:::f!Mittl: '* dtoiu e't ck .. (aitc. illdurt: ~ ..

la tuta COMtitutiOIIIICh apris k t3JIIInmwtll? 11 csc ecflalft

que., al'l l'oceurren", 11 a~rait bcaucoup pfu:l Jovquc: que le gouvcrnemc:nt fMha l ClliCtCC SOil autorhf n\aintenant, qu'tl

modlflo les propc.ll1hioJU. qu'il nolll accordc la n:C()Innaiu.ance et la protection que nou• auendoM dcpuiJ l'arri,·Cc: de \'01

uc:ttru. MOINK'" le prU!dcM. jt pw.is dire Cllt IO.te c:u1iuede que

pertonne ptrmi lcs mcmbr't3 du CGmitE, nl chant ccue alte, •I parml ~~ tEI&po;tatcun n'iano« q~K nout iQmmCS arriv& k l

ks fM'tmiers, qu.e 1\1001 ll)mmts ici dcpub des dizaincJ de millicn d'annee5.

0\li, monsltl!l le prUJde:.,t. les membret de votre QQmit• et

.._..mfme c::.'rieJMftU qu'il YOd ttnit f011 dtfr.clk de uou.­vn des Ca..adic:m q•i IIOICftt [ICt.$ de$ npporu qiK 1'11iltcire • tiub entre nous. Ses peupld ori.gindl •t \"'tit, la mtjoncf dirivcunte. Poorqu~ en cst·iJ ain•i. rno~t~~Jeur le prEsident? Pourquoi ~~e fait·il que let Canadiem ne n ntcnt pa$ Id lien•

qui nOu• uni$.1a~t, et mtme qu'1ls n't n parlel'lt que rar«nel'lt. et seut.tmtru quaod ih y .oel Qlllltra.intf'!

MONICUr k ~c~. toutd ees qwndo.• (Ortt dito::eC'.mat

rcaordr la uture de " CGMtilation deal 'fOU ~Id ea tn.ia de: fai tc: unc nouvd k rEdaccloe. Ou bicn I~ dune ~ droi" cr4era de nouvcau.x lien•. ou cUe eonOrmcr11 d 'a..elennc:• il'lju..t · tioct. Cette dec.is;ion H 11ouve rermeme:nt wtre 'IV$ rnahu.

QII<C-1 q~ soit le rtwltll t de vos dt libttlltloos. il 8U1'11 une

illddcnoc ditcde sur 1•avt11ir du Consdl del l od~ens du Yt:koll Jc IR k tfpitcn.i jlma» taCl. Le rtf)rrneftl qw, ea taille

boft~te (oi.. tiOid c:bctchort. 1 n4oriu u•hc ck tovs fiOIJ droitl et libcrtb, de$ revc:ndlcati<KII tcrritoriata, del rc530Urcu. de &a clta&H, df: la p61.:hc:~ du pi~geag~. de l'enacisnemc:nt, de la

polltl~ue lo(lclale ec ~c:o~W~mlque, des pf011'11Mrtlf:.S pour n01 ande-n~. du in:stitutiona cou,oerncmc.nt&lc:s. en brcf. de llOire .,~nir M wu que fiC'Iple. Si oe rq!cmc.rtt ~t'cst pas OOCISIC"

par la protcctb!s CCIIllftlolfd cbM la COIUIIt•l- dk rilq!Hf• par la lu..ite de (air~ J•objd d'atlllQIIH l•t k pt.n polj.tiqiiC d

.$llr lo plan juridiquc.

Voctc: ~;omitC ne dolt IJCI.• pumenre qu'd p.ti~e tn ttre ainJI. C'eJ-t la raison e!l,entlelle pour laquclle 00\1$ llOmn\U le! aujourd'hul.

Je VOUI remetde po.r "'Cte: aue:tltioll Jc suit ma.iatcna111

pm tl rfp::lfldre i V'OII q~

lA CGprisW:nl (M••t••r Ha,·s): Mc:ra bauco.rp. mom.lc\lr Alle" . La ~role- est • M. Nielsen, qui acnt suivi de M. lttiiiUIIf,

M. Nlt.ltt•: Merd. mon•ie\lr le prCstdenL

A lftM tOIIf, je SUH ~t d'ac:cuc:1Jitr me:$ compatriof:U car.dteN. DC$ C'Oihp.ttlola cftlt Yuk011, et JC ~!lit Atisfait dr

COI'Iilltu q_u'ilt <ll\1 mti11 <lbtcnu le dfUf ck comp1211tc clcYJIU le eomltt mixte pour exprimu I('UJ• ptEottur-tioru d l'!prd

du prujct de modirH:ntlon oonstitutionncll•. M. Alien. prflll~ dent du C IY et scs eollaboratt:urs qui c:ont~ralsst-nt aujo~o~r· d'h1.1i dcnnt le Comit6 JOnl appuyti CIIH au moins ul'lt· do~t­

za.i•e de pc~ ft Vu\:oo a.t:Si:sc::s da111t la rup du pubic. hrrntllcz·aoi ipkti\IC'IU d"i111hq.:tt ~. W.ef'.cwtr d"wt da

Coru;titulion dv Canad.l 11 : 11

(Tt.rtf') one: o( the nK~tc rtcc:ot 1dmiucca to the Y\ll:OA btr • ._,OM of the (vu aatlft bot• 11nd n.liCd Y11\oarn tbat Q a member ol 1.he Yukon bar, I bclie'I'C: t he: fil'llt.

My rr,..t que.J.tion hu IQ da with remarks on p.liJC three whc:JC. (OW~rds the. bouom or t.IM pi#. JOU AY that 1k apCCJM;,t that )"'U •re: MJOiiatin.a nO'Ill will deflnQ )'OUr pooplu social. polltfc.~J, cullur.JI and economic riPU and ftttdoms.. ud UbbiU • ~ t«Ui al'ld PGI•t icaJarrancemcot NicMn Yo\011. Mey I u t ,.. •-llldhtr. i• the ne. o( CYI, any amend· DCntt which misht be m11de 10 the t..-omchutional pi'(Jpo.;d• bat this Joint Commill« is eon.tidtrlnc sJI.o.ld aw.it l1w r~ "-l.COIM of 1hose ntl(lliatlOfttT

Mr, AUtn: I think OU.t COII!CCfft i.n terms of appu.ri.n& bdore: x C011101kt« '111111 the fimple fad tbat we IJC pm u Uy :gotlll tiog ••ith elK Go~c:rnmcnl of C.nad~ our daitN In tbc: r u.koe tttrkory ud from tlllolc daimt wiU 1'\ow etruli• riahtl that relate to tbc Yukon Indian people • •hic:h we ful .chould be crurenf:.hed In the c:on.1lillnioll. Wbat we ~~tOIIId tKOro.mtnd to 1lle Commiucr d tha.t Pf'O'·isiOfl be in the comtlhnlon tO allow for cntrenchrl'lent ol~tborlginal rlabts.

1\h, Nif~R: WhltC\'cr they •nicht k when they llr'le t"irully nqoc•t.ed: if that tM: ,.c.i1ioa1 Mr. o.,Jcl JIH! (Up! CClulbCII, Cou,.dl r.,.. V~tkon Iadlus): I tbirtk it I can a•·wu Wt q•cstaon. Mr. Cbirma• u wdl, r. that what -.e WOIIJd lite 10 &ee i1 a.n amcodmelll to the current ~e<:don Mw known as Scc:tiOD 24 undct the patriadoo bill t.lllll puiaapl: m~ u u cu.mpk u l~iat1 Bill or R.,.hu or Nath<c Bilf of Rlahts thlll " 'Ould Incorporate V'Cf}' a.e.u.erally ccrllin priodplcs wtaicb wouJd allow rcw t~ cattftiJC:bmcnt ol truty, abori&iMJ 1nd ti.Jlu& tbll t -.'e are~ current.ly negotiating, to WltiiC\'tt tho!ic riabtt be at this point il!ltlme. •*' whawYU U.O.C rilhtt wtll be i• tlK future, win n·entuafly be Incorporated.

Mt. NitiiHt lD the OliiMtil•tion. Mr. Jot: That i ~ ris,h&. Mr. Nidw«: Are yw ia •crottner~l • i1b the firr.t recommtn• dation thst was put forw11 rd by tbc Vukott Territorial GoYcr,.. mtnt, rumcr,. t.bc: e:atrcadlmcal ol abonJiul rtahu "' tbe consdhn iOft 1 Mr. Jot: Vu. Mr. Nitlk~~;: At quallOcd by the ani,_,ll.., that )'00 aove to my pte:¥io~t.t q1te1tioas? Mr. Joe: That tt corn:ct. Mr. NidMa: Mty I~ M.r. Aika.)'OU hue..wd on ,_se 1. toward• lbc bottom and on JlBIC J al •he top tbe upruston. when rde:rrln1 to Mr. Pcattl,\ll, .. my C:OU.IIItctptt\'" Oil )'01.1 rne,.D by 1hat n.JWUUOn that )'Otl tab a podtion chat you are th~ head or a p<trnnlCJtl in Yukoo u Mr. Pc.II5on k t.he hod ol a JO¥Uilmtal io V eloa l

Mr. Alien! Well, that i• true, I tbink os Yukoo IMian people we haYC 12 diffetcftl &~«&meal$ in the communilies -'ieb

(TfndurtiOn) ptOCI"'.ttiMO iuct at.! Yak.oft. M. Joc a ttt (011 ~mcnt edmit llu b&ITCIU <lu Yul:on, jc c:roU nvolr q~o~'ll c1t un dca prcmJers tutcxllt.onc:a M et tk:vi u Y1111or& i aauu • • Bar· re:au dt1 Y•ko..

M• prcmJUc qu.esUn conccr~ cc: que ¥OUS itYCJ: dit t Pf01101 4e l"ft\tj~IC qiCI \'OilS t tcs e11 crain <le ~~~aocier et qu.l dCriolra l-et libt rth c~ ha drohs ck vos pcuplet aur k pial'! sodal. politlq,uc. tttlt1rd d koo..,...iqae., et q•i f:t.abllfl •• IIOiiiYel arrtnJClnCllt 1>0elal et politjque I''« le Yukoll.

J 'ai:mttail Sh'Oir al lc C'IY e:stim~ quc l'on <levrah 11 ttci'Kfrc la nn de O:ti nfcoc:iaticlns avant de mochrtcr lcs propclllitioM c:oMtit•tiotlnellca dotll I'KIUC w:mitf miate etl accut-lkmcnt aal.d. M. Alka: Sf I!OilJ avont vo.tu compenrtrc devant le Comlt!, c'mt aVInt tout c.n raiton du simple. lail que: 110u.1 nC,.O:iom pt'C$cattmc:nt nee W. ptwefDC>IIICftt 4• C.aMI not: moend'ieldons daM te tcrritolre du Yuton, et de m M'l:tldlca· tiOIU dkut~lcsont ctrtalns droll.l particulicn u pt~~plc bdxft du Y•kon q;u:i, t ootl't' avil.. de'f'raknt t ire entre. dans la OOMiitutlon. Nout t tcommandons au ComitC de prt¥oir datlt la CIOIIStit.utioe Ilk di$pc.it.l.M pt:mlett:ant l'illd•Jblda di'OIU dQ tboriltMS.

M. N.illw•: Oue:ls qtt'd:s *at t b ti• da ~tiont, n'at« pa•! M. o.~w Joe (c04MIIkr ....... COMdl 4tt WlcM ,_ Y•\ •): Nous aiiT)Crion• qlle l'on modiri'C l'ardck 2'4 d1o1 projet de ~~ie)Jutk>n et que I' on introdui-$e.. par uempk, u.ne d6dlta• cioe des dnliu cka 1""0 01 ue d6cktthon da droiu d~ 8UtOCbtona SOIU (OmH' dt Jlf'll'lcipt~r: ttb alMtauX ~rmelta f\1 l'iACiusioo du droilJ que 110116 nia,orioas .alldk:motm • sor1e que.. qu<:ls que .o.cm c. droll• i l'bcurc anueJf.e et i f'll .,.cttlr. illl toltot rina!emcnt l.n<:lus.

M. Nk~ft! D.nns la co.nsdtution. M. Jor. Cm ttb.. M. Nitl~•: StcNOUI poor la prcm.i«c. rccomma.nda1iol'l du p'I"C:rACmctlt tvrit.oria.l du Vdolt qw pt'OPONil 1'1~ dct droit• 6e5 aboriJCnu danv b contlitution?

M. Joc: Oui. M. NNIM-n.: Corn.pcc teal!. du t&c:rvu nprilllft:s da• ,_ rCpGIIIQ a•.-: quet.hom que je W)us ai posCes prk6dcmmcnt! M. Joe:Oui. M. l\'lt.hom: Monsi<ur Alien, dill'-" vocre d6claratlon, en parlant de M. PC-arson. vOid dil« •.moll homoloc•c:oo, Va.&CL· "''OIIt cbre ,., ti que .,..,..s ~~ cs:tn't'ltl k chtf d'tln SOU'~mc­mcnt llu Yukon au mt.n1~ 'itrc (lue M. Peanon?

M. AUt~ Ell bcca. e:•cst nai. ~ PQipk dct lndte:M du YuLon a douu JOVVC"Hiemenl-' d ifthenu , il' rept'esc:ntent lcs

I I I

11 ll

(T#.rt l rtpretenl the Yukon Indian 00flut1U.niticl under !he Cllic:f and Oand Council.

Mr. Nirke:•: l)o you ad~ocale. the CYI, 6o yov 11.d~oea 1 c: a xpanue pttnment in tbc Yukon rc.r native peoplet

Mr. J JW-. 1 u,-e bca ul.ed to reapond 1o 1ha1 q•ot*.

Wh.t •'e luwe adtoc:ltcO-d court~t I c:aA1k1C &a 11110 a YCrJ Jlf'CCiK diiCOUrw on ow C~trrcnt ~;esoeuted COMtitutklul models th~t we: fl;,ave prac:nttd at tM: barpillitll table 1t.M.IJ. Othcr•itc we would kin bruc.h of the c:anflden linlit)' prind· plc ' ''C: have aareed <In with the OoYCmmcnt o( C.nuda, but ( con ••Y it is logico.l to a~unH! atven. u Mr. Allc11 uprqftd, that •>e do lave-turre.ntly 11 lndi.an Band O<Wernment&. but thc:re hat to be a sc:n»e ol oo-ordinatiotl, a Sctl»e o( a «z~trll l

lndl .. fO"t:mmern f•t~aion I hat ean handle 1hotie mattc:n that wo.W be U.ndkd by a OCAtral lndiu pu-1UM114. INittn ...e• u • ilk ud acata. num •d as maUU.C.U.I prvpmy &a-. i111 tiK Jndiu c:ommun.1ty. l'hoolc ku:d~ o/ matters.

Mr. Nlfl'ee: Would only lhe native people or Yultoll " c:ndtlc:d to vote for the: J!<OC!Ic who head up thb Mtivc government?

Mr. Joe: Yes.

1\tr. NidHte Do )'OU advocltc: that )'QU J..hould oontin~tc: lo hi"C tbe ri&}lu to \'Cite: for tbc mc-mbtn wbo ru:n for the YuLon lqklat.M assembly.

Mr. Jw: Yes.

Mr. Nldtu: May I 1.1k you •hill ttspect to the: t.tatc:mc:nt made on Jlllge 3, with rc:spec:• to de~lopmc:nt, the lall ptfll·

&rn.ph. I take: it that ~011 00n1idcr the toBSlruCiion or the Al;uka Wghway nuiUral l lf pi j)CIIIne as devdopmc:nt: 'I''OOid 1 be OOfred?

1\tr. A Uen: Yes. Mr. N~ Are you oppo~ 10 that df!\'C'Jbprnent at abt

IIIOftlic:h\ u:n:t•l AaaJ trttklntat ol )'OIIt &a.lad cb•mt!

Mr. Alf.t~t: That is tr\le. 1\tr. Niel:~elll So that in we-nee. am I c:orreC-'1 in •a)ina that

)'(lt.l 11.~ oppo&ed to development llfMrally or juat in tcl« tcd int tnnetl11

Mr. Jot: Wen . your question, Mr. Nielstft, wa.: nre we ~ to the pipeline until our adtlemau ia imrle:mentcd? 1\e &IIU•'C-t to that k: )'Cl. "'e liC: t>.t wit b re.,pea tO

devdopnc:IU ~alty. tbat otna•AI)' k JIOil tbe quodon

Mr. N l<tUH: Well let me p.t it this ny: do you IJUC: tlalt the c:onatruoc:tion ol tM Alat.U Uij:hway natural au ptptllne il ckvclopmcnt. material development?

1\tr. Joe: YC5. Mr. Nldnn: And you 1re oppo.cd to tbat matcrill l di:WC:~

mc.nl until your claim& arc: &eHied: Is tbat title?

Mr. JM! Yes.

Mr. 1\'WM« Are J011 oppciiiCd Do uy ctlln M~terial 61> 11dopme:nt 1111 Yul:on tuu.ilsculc:mc.nt or JOUr d<J.imT

(1'NJJU/Qt/01tl

oommu nautH ifldienna du Yukon totill la ho~o~Jcue du Chef et du Conaell de ~ndct.

M. Niclw•: Le CIY est·il en ra~eur d'un IOU\'Crnemc:nt .si-p1t! d~ •u1odti0Ml au Yukon?

M • .lw.: CM me dernlnck de: ripondrc 1 cette quotion. Bk• s•t.jc .c ,.. C:ftlttt da.M ks pdciliom m« qlli ~ne la mod&s (llllftlth•tiollndt qiiC 1t10e1 aWIU prixnt& i b tabk de ftfcoci:ation' Ji..oft ..aus iriolu i f'cncwue d• prirKi:pc de 5(1;fCI Cj UC ftOI.IJ ll~3 (IOtiV~U de tnJ)CC'tcr a V« le:. £011Vel'tl~

ment d11 Canuda. Cc:penda.n t.. «~mme M. Alien l'a dl?:cl;1"- YU

que no·ull avonf actut:Utment doutc JOII \ICrnernents de bandc11 indiennef. 11 fllul un otr1ain IIC:fll de OOOI'dination, il fa ut que l'oll SUite qu' un IOO''Cmemetlt ceJUral Jndien ,·~pc: det q uestkMII CICinC!Ir:l'llant lc:s t tilamc:tll&, k• biens, ks rf:cimct N.trimot~MU de: ptOpriett df.eJ ks eolled.MI.Q indimlleS. Cl»

&<ftU$do-

M . !"(klMM Et:t~e que la autoc.hlonn du Yutoo auraicnt 3C'Ill$ le: droll d'~li rc: lu dlt ignnu de ec &<IU:~etnc:mc:nl autoc.h1oneT

M. J ot": Oul. M. Nlt'kfon: E•limc:t.·\'0111 que ''OUJ de'ffic:.r. to[1tin~M:r l aWllr

le droil d'tJ1111 la mtmlwCJ de l'aJJt.mblfc lfa;islatr.-e d u

Yukon ! M . .rw.O.i. ~l. Sldlt« O.ns "«)Ctt dEclaration., YVI!It ,.rtn de: dtft:lo~

pement . Jc JUppoie que VOU3 eo.wdiru la ton$ltudi011 du gazoduc de Ill !'<Mile de I' Alaska tommc unc forme de «Jevelop­pemenl, n'cst•Cc J)a1?

M . AUe•: Ot.~l.

M . NldHic Etcs•VOUI oontre Mle rormc de dndoppemc:n t., WM. que- f"C'\~tiora5 tttritorialeJ • ••• tOM pas derit~itJ.

YC:tll'CIU ~i t41fa.T M. A lk« Cot \'fli.

M. Nicl1u; 0on.e vo~» Ctc:s ~trc. le dfycloppcmcl!lt en t b!!ral, ou blc:n MUiemcnt dans ctrtoln• c:a3 partk ullers?

M. Jo~: Mont.ic\olr Nicl$en. 'o'Ous nu d'abord demandt si ~5 l?: tio111 COfltrc k pzoduc tanl qge l'cntente ne: 11era pit

appfjqok. La rfi!OMC ~t o.i. DOU& tOmmu coette:: pour cc q~o~i ~ du dl\~t en ~1. ce a'c:u c:auincmeru pule

""" M. "Nicli.ot~t: Jc qi.f poMr ma q11esdoa d"•oe avtrc: fa~. Voos COil'ICIIC:l avtt moi q~~e la COMII\Ietloo d u p.rodoc de I~

route de I'Alalkll est un~ forme:. de d.tvd oppcmc:nt m:u~riel.

M . .Joe: Oul.

1\t. ~lelun: VouJ t!tes oontte cctte forme de dl~lopperncnt m;at&iel tant q11e vos rc:~ndkatkwls n·au~t p;u etC rl!l~u. n'C$t.oe JI&•T

M. I-.: 0.1. M. NichR: tta-'JOIII$ centre: toulc autre (onne de dhdopo

pemcfll matfrkl •• Y• t on tatlt q•c ~ rcw*'-i<:lt.iom •• ,.,. ront pas ltl r4flca1

Coo&titutioo du CaJIIIdl 11 : I)

1Tr..tl4', Mr. Jot: Well. pe1hap& you c11n jl.I'ICI u& 11n extmplc of other

dC\>tlopmenu th;at may be on I he horizon and 'Ao'CI can zh-e .. n'IOrc: apc:c:ifte ao~wer 10 !.h:u.

Mr. Nlebt•: Well, thcte arc: bei~Ao«n aw.·o and n .. ·t ml.ue.s 1t111 •~ .almost ready to be developed. WOQkl 10'1 be oppo&ed to tbc development of the mln.e,.l ind~n~ry in Y.ton: any further tbtt it bs I OM, (or iue&n« M• m.i!lrfl, until )'O'I.r c:ltiJN lte" Killed?

Mr. Jw. Wc:l. tlloK t•o lO rm nc:w mines. at )'OU pll it.. an ceruiaty IICW'5 to u. u4 ODCC • ..: arc- "*" or leu olftdally aotifiCd I Wn1; we ... w be aWe to r"P004 at that pod1 ill tJ.ne. You muu bve- "' h111dc !!'Kt 1ba1 ft> do not. Mr. Nklsca.

Atr. Nldw..-: WtU. ltt ut j1U1 Ulle a h)·pothcsis. tbc:n. May I ad: )'OU •11etht:r you arc ~ 10 any nc:w mioe. be.ln& cuabfishc:d io Yukoo IUHil )'Oiit d11lnll 11rc HUicdT

Mr. Joe: I t11!nk it is 11 'f'Cry dirncuh question to answer beeau~e h Is po5C4 io1he h)'pothetlcol und h would be danger~ ou.s poliliQIIy for us to mpond In dlhet the affirm.alive or d1e opposite 10 that, Ill ahis point in lime. When it happens we will rapond as • ·c did wbcn the Northern Pipeline Act ea me: out publicly.

Mr. Nid.oH« So I tJ&iltl we cu QOaelltde. tilt, tltiat you an '-"iq lK q'lleStioa ol OlfiPI*ItOft &o ~~ •• opca one a.d as 1hey nuy or 11111 1110t oewt )'OU will be uki~ 1 ' tt.Dd tf'Om dme 10 rime. u tbcy ocaul

Mr. JN': That lt COITct'l.

Mr. Nieke•: lflhcyoocurl Mr. J~: That iHOITU1.

Mr. Niel.se•: Wi1b rapec1 to tl'le m.temenu on page l ol yo1.1r brief aDd your prtvio11t uurtiOfl ~ on f1"8C Z tbol 1bc:re i.s, to u&e )'OUr word$, proio1.1nd diiYerenou In our re-s-pective \'lewll, ll&pin.tions and conoerru., rererrlna to 1be dif'taence~ klw«n. YTG and CYI.

Polntin& to the f.act that a l'lll.li\'e, Paul 8urt.:l. i' tbc: d l;airma of tbe electioC'Is boerd in Vatk.«< •hich b 11 position rouahl) tCJ•ivslent to tile dud electoral olfiCCr at U.C federal kvd. atlc! po~•liq: to the fad IMI tbcn !w btea .soc!X' ~ perll:a.ps .,_ do 1101 l.h!tlk h .. rut ~p ud pcrUp I do nal think it il fut CftOIIab. wid11 ropcc:l to the dn-dopmem of aatftoe la._,.,.,e traYIIIIIC "" Yukon sehoclk. aad Plnkipatioft of utivtt on tetlool ~m1noa .nd so oa. wh.Jt Cllbtr d itere:panc:ic$, il you (XIightli~l them ror "'· txiil bct•ttt~ YTG aM tbe CYI?

Mr. J~: I thinl: the nK~St recen1 ell.llmple w.·c luwe of' tlult it, 11 you know. there ""'tl3 inlroduocd in the Yukon House • new munici~f ord ina~Wc. That new munlcl1>al wdln3nee d id no1 r'coa.nizc tfl.e exi~ting po,.'tl1 of the loe11l bnOO coundl in the Indian communitiC$.

AI this point in time I 4o not ki'IOw •Nit the c:urrut territorial gcwcrnmmu pmiuon is wilb rup«:tto the moo..~ ,.don of wmmon str~tctwn alld a • • m:un.ltipal ordin3J'IC't la tk Yst o..

I TrOift~cllonj M. Joe: Oonnu.·ntoi un utmpk d 'une autre forme 6c

dCvdoppe~nCJII, tt je I'(Mirrai \'041$ donncr une tfpoiiiCI pr6c:IM.

M. Nkbt•: Deux i cinq mincJ sont wr le point d'cntrer en e.~~ploitatiOft, ~tCJ•<wWf c:ontrc le dC\>e~mcnt de l',ftd_.trle m.inJfte du Vat i on, contu l'txploit.uion. de- cu oouvcllca mina. taat que YOt tc..,~lldkatlons n'auront pa$ itC rCst«s?

M~ J~ Pour ce qui at des dew. i dnq milKS dolal ¥OW pu1u. c·~ •• pr~~ IIOC'f'dk po~~r ~ q!AUd lOIN • .,.. ~ l•formh ... cho5c plti '* D'ICiftl otr IICM:Iklnnl. Jl& ptnk· que 1101111 KrOnl ea mcscrc de ¥OUS ri:pondrc. Mon~r N.ei&cll. 'I'OU& dev~ •¥0ir det entries q~ nout 11•a"'M ,.,,

M. Nlt.IM:a: Prcnon• un eu b)'pod~tiqut, pt.r cont~ucnt. ~es·"<KKt CCH'IUe la elUtion de loute nOu\'clle mine 11u \'"k:()n tanl que vo~ revcndiCii ti<ln' n'auront pu ~6 rfgl6c:J?

M. Joet C'ut unc que.-tioo! laquelle 11 u-1 trb di rtic11e de ripondrc porco qu'elle ttl hypothbiquc; du point do vue politjquc. 11 1t01tt Ac.t~it danacrcgx de \'Out r6pondrc u jour· d'bwt que c:e lOft par l'• ffirmative ou autre-men~. Now prffi· tOM rbJJr en roncdon des ErincmcnlS, commc nou.1 I'I'OIIJ f.aic. publ.iq•cmcnt, q~t.~~nd &a loi fUr le pipelin.c du Notd • ft~ ..... .... ,..

M. NkiM.:: Par a:lftllq~ent., b. qvcs.tioo de YOUc opp»icto. u df\'doppe.w:tlll rote OU'\"Crk. et """"' pradttt po&kMIIt ea fOIIC'tlolt 6u f.<ofnc:f'lldU. au f1lf a I lhthrc cplk K prodvirQIIt?

M. Jw. C"Cf.t e.xaa. M. Nidnftl S'ils ee produise!lt. M. Jot: C'ci1 e11act. M. Nlclw.l\: l>.ant votre dfdaratioo, vous f!arh:& de d•m•Cll·

oo.1 profondel 6c I>Ointa de v1.1e. d'tl•pi rntion~ et de pr6ooeUPII• tions rcapcctl~• d11 souverndflc:llt territOt'ial du Yukon cl du Contc1l 6u I ndicns du Yukon.

C'ut un 1\ltOC'htone, moruiwr Paul Butko, ~tui pr&ick le cor.sal da "ccdons du Yllk()tl, pot:tc fqu~al~t "' nJvcu ftdfnl. i c-ctv.l de cbrcc:~evr de$ il«tioM.. Par aiUt•fl. dft provb on• ''' r&lil& c1:ttt.s l"ca:sciptmt~~l do &an.pn ••toc.b:t.oaa dans kl fclokt du Yu.k.on. mime M. CIOIIIIIIIC MOL 'tOllS pouwu pcuef q• 'ib • 'o.t pu itt a.ez tt.pilk:f: 4a &u:t.oe:hi.OIIa r_,.rtllt Ni•t~11U1 parmi Its mtmbra 6ct 0011• 5Cih liOiillaira: et ai•A ck l1.!11c. Dui$ ea. wncl1t!oat.. j'aunati£ q•t· ¥Out IMMit pr6c~Jic& qucls &emt lu dba.c:eonb qui JIC'I'I'elll ubta entre le IOU''t rnctnent territorial du Yu1ton et le Con· &eil des lndicnt du Yu~on .

M. JUf:: Commc voos le savtt, 1•excmpJe le pfu.s ~ent que nous &JOIU oonec~rne cette nQln>e:llc ordQnnanoe munlcipalc qui a ftC prC.c:•ll fc:. i l;a Chambre du \'ukon. Ceue ord<ltlniiiKC ne rcoonnalt '*' IC6 pouvolrli ae1uell du conkll de tMnde loon le. des coUcchv11& lndlcnn(ll,

A l'llc:UIC ae111clle jc ne Nis pas queUe HI 1 .. pot.ition da JOUYC#Mmcnu tcrntoriaus i prop:15 de l'a6opt.alioo de lttvC• t•rrs com.mutld et d'•M novvdlc ocdonRafiCit mu~tiopalc: au v.t41t

11 . 14

(Tur) Wo have o.r owa upiratioll$. Wo are NI COitleltcd .-,111

tcip«t to dw drah~r11 of tb.e: sttut'llUel wttic:l!l aft! now nw•• IIUMd uM" IU.t onbnanClC.

Thal li the MOll tCCCJII c.umpk I could ipellk or.

Mr. Nlthltn: Did you ask to be COI)S411ttd1

Mr. Alk•: We were noc awa1c I bolt the)' were drartlna lh~&t ordinance..

The J tHnl O •lt iiU (St•ator Hayt): ,\ fr. lttinuor rouowtd b)' Senator l..ucicr.

Mr. IUIMI&n Thank you.. Mr. C11airmAn. I weteomc the Couaeil ol Y11t.on lnd.lai'IS to Ottawa. I COn.J.nt•tatc: )'011 Of! )'0111 bt~J.

I .otlce J.- )'OU:r IUI'c:mt'lll to tlx Com.Wueo )'OU klve no spcdrtctUy worded ~ s.dl u the lnun Commiuu on udonel iMvct a..d i.n thdr brief to tilt COI'ftllliuc.

Don thlt ~" _,., tlut you ate soi.n,; 10 pn:lpOIC tlkh a.n amo:ndmcnt or table IIKII amcndmcn~ or do )0. 1111pport tile Nati" C011ndl or C.t~ada'& amendmenta1

M r. Jor. The I IU Wet to )'011/ question. Mr. lnlnu.u. I• t hat the rcll.'lon we did not inc:orpor.~~te spn"':lrte a~ncfmenta with rea11rd 10 the ltctions with whith '~~'e arc con~rned nOf, b thal 'iii'C ha,·c tnbiC'd a wrlncn aubmiss.ion which .speak• to o~onw <J(

our ooru:ernt wilh rapcclto the l!t clloru that oonoern "'·

11 it abo our inlcnti<>nt to .1uppon the tlational poeitioon 'A'hkh m.ay be adoplo:l by lhc NatiooaJ lnd~n Brotherhood. and unlil they appn.r bdote thil Committtt.. and untrl our owa d;eeu•ioftt with tbem. a.s pe.r1 of the Nadcmal !Mia11 B~hefhood. are CIOIIIdwkdi. I tlaink it may prejvd:ioc the tabli., o( a pa11blu ltdlaa commuity's Yicw from • ttt~a ia rcc'onoiC.IIHa

Mr. Jn la• r: Tltuk )'Oil.

fl n1n1 Nid t .. t, r do not. tbittk I could 10 vuy m.c:ll funller about,...,.., •pociOe com.titutioeal con.ccru.

Pethapa I could atk. one more: general questl<>rt. WMt are )'Oiilf cuncernt In tbat proposed tC$OIUiion, what ~«tlonJ are you concerned .,.lth?

Mr • • fOe! We life c;QnCC:rned, Orst and forilm()it, ab<NC what we would OOflllder to be tbe inadcquuy or tbc pre54:ntly worded Section 2•. 'Which OI)C could aJiegc, I would tuppo3e. to inC<Wporate ed,tinj natiYc ri,11.hU now 1n Canada; and !lull tbe Ch.rt« la AOt intendo:lto caku way rrom tbe etiJdl\l tl£ht.J.

l"kre apptar'l to bt a \ 'tt)' vague td'treMe at thl1 potlllt in tune to •lilt tboK !ipaarc.

TN 0011rtt.. orrtaialy. b\-e JIOl cJc:rmcd _.., thoM na.ku ate~ T1le kJbb.tM procesJ W certa.i!loty .ot ckriiiCd . .. , lk»e: lilbiJ 1/C.

AI we have m~tftlkltltd bc-fote.. it mala 3c:me to lncotpotal~ I Jell'C,.J ftOIIIIVC. bill Uf ri&h~ SCC"tlon wl\icl\ would (IICihtate cntreMhmcnt or an aarument when we c:ome: to a con(!lutk,.n o( ~f MIOihUiona..

The .f«ond urcll whic.h concerns ut is Scctlon 6 of the putrlatlo11 bill whie-h 'flelb of the mobility riaht• in C.nndu,

J-12·1910

(T ..... d., ... ) 'l(ou;.s ~~~ 1105 Jlf'OCiftS •~Ptaii(IM. "'loa a·a~ pu et.e

toldallt& a\'IJU b «ftuo• del ltt'Ktwa q• n mairJtmul Ct;~blir ccltc ordolftftltl«.

Ccst ll l'u.emplc le piu~ rk:cnt dOfll }e puiu t ¥00$ perler.

M. Niel~a~ : A~tl·~OUi dem11ndt i itrr co"'u!th?

M. AIJca: Nous M sn~lon• pat qu'•lf :•llale-.nt rMia.er cette ordoruuncc.

Lt eoprhldtll (K11111e.,r llayt): La pe.ro&c est mon!ileur lttinu.ur. qui $era sulvi par le l~r'lll l t'WF Lucler.

M. Ininuar: Me:rd. tnOttileur k pr&idctlt. Jesuit hcurcu11 d'acrueiJtir i On.a•·• lea rcpttlltnllnts du Ccln,;eiJ des it~dk!'!i d• Yu k:on.. J'ai.mua.il Wlalltlkllittt pollf voc.te mf:moin:.

k ranarqate q~~t Wlltc cllda111tioft n Co.llit! IIIC COIIIieJ!t ,... er a.mcock:moen:a: prkh oom_. CleVA qH nou~ a ,..&cot& 1c COmitllcoit At la qvnaioftt d'•nttt& utioul.

Ce:ta w:ut~il dire I(IIC YOet propciKI't-1: da a.melldementt PI la .suile ou. que VOU3 appuyu «taa cf11 COI*kil dts autoc::htOII<'I dll Ca.ttada?

M. J ot: Monaie111 r lldnu.ll t , t.i noua n·•vom pas [nclus d'amc .. dcmentJI prici~ concorn•nt kt artkk• qui nOli$ preoc;. cuptn~ dircctemcnt, c'eil que~ dnnt notrc m.!molre ~ctit nous faisorts part de nos pt'~OOCIIJlfttlon• cone.emant oc:s dl~-en article$.

Noas ~evons auui l'imtntlon d'lppuyet la posjtion qu'lldop· cera la Fr~1crnit~ nlltiMale des IIM!ieltJ Nout SOll'lmet mcm· but d e:. Ot'Ue Fratemi1t, nout .ommcs actKI.IemCJJI en disev.s· sioo a"« e!Je C1. 110115 prEJtro~~t 11e pu portCf prfjudM:le i 1011 ~ em 4Cpxut k point de \'UC d'•ne oolicctMtl illllir11De

pa.nkulitte tCJlt~"' •• ocrt&tAc ,q;o. eh C..Uda.

M. il~t: Mnri. Cela ctit. je M pc:!IIC plJ pcMIWU afler bc:auooup pl:ltS loift •

ptopos de vos pt6ooeup~tio11111 conoctrunt la ~titutioR.

P<:rmetlcz•moi de voos poter une: qlldliott d'ordte gCntnl. Queb $Ont lc:s artk:ld (lul vou11 pr&Kcupcnt dans ce projet de !CSOIUiion?

M. Joc: Cc· qui nOui pr*cupc a~ant tOUt, e'tst l'iMuni· ll:ttloCe de l'afliclc l4 qui, je t iii)J)OM, devrait indurc I-ts droiti aC'Iutls des autochtona IIU C.n1d1: la cluute dit qu'elle ne nie pu I'CJf~encc dei dr<Mtt qui u:btcnt.

Ccla M semble &re q1"11M vJiUC ttftrtoce l oe que .oDt c:ct

droib. 11 est ccru.ia qiK la tn"WMu ne b oat pu di:fmu. 11 at

certain Cpkmcet q•'ih • 'oet pas no. phts ht dffillif par le ~'IOir .eptauf.

C4mmt jc l'ai Ji~NM pt6ddotmme~~t. il sera.it SQUN.i!:abk: d'inclun: llft uddc ootlc:ICI!III.IIt UM dfc:l.arati<N'l J&\trale des droitl dCJ autQChtDntll, qui ftlcllitetait rindssion de l"cntcntc i la.qu-cUe no~ auron• pu purvcntr A lo fin de I\Of nt1oc:iationt.

NOU$ wnmtoet6ga.lcmtnl prWcetlpb pur !'article 6 du proje:t de loi qui ooocemo la libertt do dr'(lul.alion cl d'C.t.ahllnement :au ~ra:td:t .

3.-12·1980 Constitution du Canada 18: I.S

(T#xrco) As ..-·,iltddrdlied by Mr. Alien's counterpart, Mr. P.::ar1on,

earlier. be expressed the riew tbat tbere woukl be no prcfcren· tial birint, in the Yu.l:on. Tl\at could be dcc.l:lred to be uDCOllstitutionul.

At this point in time, witb the Northern Pipdines A .. "' in the rtgubtiorls, there is allowance for pr<:fctentiaJ hi~ring fot Yukoner1, and that section could be s-truck out: that area cooecrns u..s.

Seecion IS. which is the equality before the l11w scctton, COI)Ctrlls us, as we ha\'C mentioned. because if we are eo reach an a,g:reement thtt i$ put into law by the gove11:unent of Canada. there is oothina I ooald see i.n the c:onsdtutlion tllltt ..-~uld say that a.grcenltnt which we have as per out interpreta· tion of Seedon 15, would be suue-1: do..-·n tl!l being uncon.st!tu· tioul. Tbat arcu concerns us.

We arc also cooeesoec.t about the interim consti tutionltl amendment sections which do not allow for any p.lrti<:ipe.tion or natlw grou(IS' in Can~da , assuggtsted in, r beJle"'t~ Section .)2 -..·hic.h spe.11:$ to the COIU-titutioMI c<>nferenec.

There is oo provision for any native input with respect to the interim amendments to the <X'lt1Sthutlo:1; as well, thcce is no mention of any lons·term par1idpation of muive peQ~~Ie under tbe amendi11g ela\lse under Section 41. That, too, eonc;e.ms u~.

Mr.lttillUlt: I take it you are the lawyer.

The!e llre. m1.1eh the-same OOn«m~ that the lnuit Committee on muiooal i!i!Wes raised before tbi$ Committee. I apt)Uciate that.

I ..-vuld like to turn to $0flltthing ebe; your $Citlement of claims with tbe fedttal80\'ernment in the Yukon.

Most duimll in tlw: OQUnl.ry, when neft()tiutc:d go through two phases. Tberc is an 88tcement in principle pba..se, in ._·hich principles are ayeed upon by the federal gO\'t fnment and the claimant; then the d.et;lil$ 11re ..-wked w .tafler that.

Could )'t>u indieue-~nerally what phil.s.t you are now at. I appreciate yuur ooncern about oooftdential.ily of the ne&<ttifl• tions, B·ut perbaps;, could you indicate just what phase you are at'!

Mr. J ot-: I think, first of :111. there sbould be c;aveu to our response, and I do that by "yin& that ..-·e h,ne nOtlldopled any formal pba.ses ••ith the Government of Canada with ~peel to the s«tlemcm of th<l$t rights. We did DOt cooseioosly decide. )l:S there ..-wld be pha&e one and th.lt would be the ayeemenl in principle. and pllase t..--o whkb "''ould be the final agree­men!. We adopted the approuch of tryin& 10 come ta t.l1e table­in lln efTor1 to get as many oomprebc.nsive agrocmenttl ts we oould. At tbb point in time in rtspet'lta )'Otlr ~u(:s-tion. I would Sily that you should Sh'C l.ltl a liUie bit of time, p..:rhllp.J live Or six months, and allowing for good railh on both sides, perhaps an Jgrcemcnt in prindJ>le by the end of th;H perkxl. Mr.Utill~&~r: Thank )'OU.

( Trod'l•clio.o• I Cornmt- 1'~ dlt prOOMemn,ent !'homologue de M. Alien. M .

Peauon. aucunc ptifCrenoe ne $Cr;a faite au YukOJn en m~tiCrc d'c-.n1bauebe.,. Cela pourrait euc declare comme eontraire ;i la eonMitutkm.

l.es rCJllements d'a.pplk:atioo de- la loi sur k pipelhK- du Nord prevoient que la prifUenee se111 nccord6c au11. h;1bitllntt du Yukon en rnatiere d'embaucbe; eette disposition pourrait ltre ~upprimk, et eela nous inqul~te.

CQmme nous l'avons indl~u6, nous nou.s inquihons 4alc· ment de !'article 15 eonce.rnant 1'~1litC de..-.nt I~ loi p.atee ~ue .• s.i nous aNiYOilli i une entente que le aouverneme:n~ du CaMda inefvt da ns la kloi, rien d&fl!l la consdtution ne dlt que oette entente ne poo.rra.it JXI$ ~lte di:dnr& cootr;ti re i la oonul!ution. du fait de l'intert'fCiation de l'articlc 15. No~ nou;, pr~oceupons done de ec,ue slt~ation.

Nou.s n<ltl$ pr6oocupom *:~lement des dispositions oooeet· nant le.s modiftc:a tions oon5titutionnclk:s provisoird, le$queUe3 ne. pr6voiet~t pas la participatjon des autoc.htoncs du Car»dll, ce que la&se notammc-nt entetldre l'artiele 32, je crois, i propos des eunfi:renOCJ constitutlonnelles.

Aucun rOle n'e11t pri:vu pour les a utoe-lltones en oe qui conoerne les modir.c:ations pr<Wisoira de la cuosdtutic>n; pareillement, l'tuticle •1 contctnant la procCdu1e de modmea· tion de la ..:on5titution du Canada ne- fait aucunement allusion A une participation il long tume des ;1utoehtonts. Ace ptOJ)f'O$; Egalemcnt, nous sommes inquiets.

M.ltt.i.n.uar: Je crois saoroir que c'est \'OUS l'avoeat. Cc soot ! peu prts les ~mes prCocc:upatioiU que c;ellcs

exprim6e.s par le. Con1it6 lnult SUJ les quwioos nationaJes (CIQN), Tout oe qu.e YOJU$ di tes m'intlireue. bcauooup.

Permetttx.· rnoi d'aborder un autre sujet; le realement de VO$

rC'I<cndiealioiU au Yukon I&Yt'C le gouvernemef!t fMliral. Les nligociuions de !C'I'Codic.11joM 5e fonl. d.1ns la piu pert

~s cUJ, en deux &apes.. Prc.m~rement il y a I'Ctape de J'aocotd de prineipe au QO\Hl de luquelle le &ouvc-rnement r&u:,l et le dcrnaMeut s'sccordcflt sur I~ prinepcs; en$\lite, on se penehe sur le$ dCtail$.

PourriC?.·vou.s nou.s dire il q11elle Ct;~pe l'6ui en Ctes. Ccrtcs, jc 1:omprends que ocs n6gociatioru ont un caraet~fe eonJidCll· tiel, mais pcut-Ctre. pou.rrier ... voos nous dire. d ~uene ltape vous en ltes'?

M. JOt! Avant de vous rlipondre., perMeHez-moi de fair<: une r.!sen·t eo ce sens que nous n'aVQn$ pu udopti: de 8)'llllme d'ttllpc.s rormelles 4\'te le g,ouvernemCJII du Canada il propos du r~lement de c;es droit$. NOu$ n'aW~ns pat dl:cidl d'avoir d'itbord une itape pour l'aocord de principc puis une autre pour l'entente finale. NOli$ sonunes ''Cnus A la table de nCg~ clatiao en soubaitant obtenir une entente llu$li g,lob&le que possible. Pour t-ep()ndre ll Wltte- question. je dirai ~ue vou.1 dewiet noos donncr un peu de temp5:, clnq ll six mois peut· ft~~ et, sl les deux parties liC oomportent en twte "bonne f<li, il sera C.<cntuc::llcment pM;s.lblt d 'arrivcr d une. enteate de prin· cipe au bout de ees sill. mois.

M. lttiaullr: Mtrci.

18. 14

(Tur) tor.ow. I wouJcl l1lc to tun1 to $01netla•na dw wkh I eo~t­

diJdc 10 be • "" unsdiw: aJa (Ot IIICit ol lhc Y1konoen wll~tlbcr ulive or IIOIIItlti<Je.

A«ordin1 to the ud!.,nac you have lud with Mr. NlciMn from che Yukon Jut w~ct, wbcn Mr. Pearson appqrcd before the Commiucc he. was asked a qudtiorl by the honouroble mtmb~:r f« the Yukon on i.npul from llll tive orpnillll l<ln~ Into the Yulion &O''Crlllllttl t'$ brief. Mr. Pearson oonsequcntly u.bltd a dOC-U itlf~ll l , wbkh WIU A leucr from the Council or Yukon Indians.

My que•tion it: do the witOMC$ fec.J that lheir orallnlr.atlon has bt:ttl •dequlle:l)' cr:klluhed by the Yuk011 $0VC:tnmtnt on mlllltr' related to the conuitution. and do they llfte whh Mr. Pat1011'1 JU.It;mcn.l. to lht tlfcer. tbat the. c:ktttd ptmmCJit

ol1he Y1 k011 JpUb for aU raidalu ol the cerritory, or. are then $OIIIo( am. of d~ wit.b llwil ICII«t'MftC ol Mr l'uriOII't1

1\t:r, Alild: I wo.kl SUit tbt t!K: wOttftiJ rdatiottJIIip between the Yukon territ«ioll JO""'emnxnt and ourulwa 11 'ffty poor. The limpk fatt. that d lctC a no c:onM!1tation with the Yulion lndhan people In terms of drafting any prop<Ntl.

When the Yukon tc.rrhuriAI government prcpn~ thclt pra· cnlallon 10 to1nc before this Committee, they did n04 w rnc 10

us ot even addrc:111 ll'f quwlo~ of aboriginal righ11, which it 11

vety seriout 11.nd 1 moet impon~ot inue eo rhc Y1.1ton lndLan people.. That 11 ""here I srcat deal of d:ifficuhy OOC:Urt.

Many 1imu tbey tl lk about dt""<:lopm.tnti, MW otdinanca and MW lawt ie tlle Yukol\o AocS thew devdopmc:nu do not tab i1110 aceou.ot lllf ift~t!U of the llldia.n pc<lpk or any cc.bu.ttauon •itll them.

Mr. fn._.r. One men qVQCioA,. Mr. CIM:inNIII. I WOIAd tikc: to a1t )'OU •Ilea t.llt ICNJ ar.f I t«p •r'lt.l tiM ICNI bc:cauc lhtt Is 1M .,_p I hitrt mo&t dol.ely worked ~~tllh. I would like to ••k you about tbt intq ration of tbc non tltl~· abk 1nd tht rcne,.able tUOU.rcc S(Ctot, How do you ~ thb happcnin1o I tab . 11 that gentflllly you are N>t ~cd to dC'I'ttopment utepl perlapt in &Ome JpcQfio~: tatcl whkh ••ttt dUtOu~cd by you 11nd Mr. Nielsen fot rtasoru tluu may nut be immcdhuely e~lde11t 10 0 11.1 mtmber1 of this Com•nlt tee. How· ever, genc:rnlly, h()w do you JCC tbe intcarulion bet,.·ecn the cwo. Then mull be hunters and trappers in the Yukon at rhere in the Northern Tcrntory as •·eU .as "A'ag_e earner& In ck~dop· mr.nt projoc:u. How do yoo tee the inte.snlioft bclwoen tbcllt t•'O. 6e~-eloplnenl \'Crsut ftOIIdC\•dopmetll and rc:ncwable raourec hai"'C:•tut' "'ttlw: dtw:lopm.en.t, tlllu KJrt olttlinat

Mr. Mklllld S.hll (Ltp.l CCIUIIIIId. C.....ell r., v .... I . .,.Jaa.t): n.ar~lt JOII V"CfJ much. I woufd lite to rfti'O'Mf to tbt qu.ulio.. AJ )'OV •"' aware. fint of all I QJUIO mor-e or la~ comment on what the YTG bu btt.n saying About our rda~ tlonshlp with t hem. 1r )'QU realize in the Yukon OltC ol th<e prcro,ptlvu or one ol tbe aint$ of the VTG Is to b«omc o provinoc 11nd thty al .. WIUH to have-control twer the reio041rcca. both renewable tnd non rc.,·eqblc re.sour<:cs, and thcrefl)re

I Tr•u./ariolt)

Pffoocttc.t·moi NIWIICIIItll cf'c• IO'Ciillt i Id. domaine 11-k ciCbcat pour 13. pltaparl dn ltabltuu cl• Y•lGn. ntodlto~~e~ou ....

La 20emaine dcrn•Cre, qualld M. P'tarsot'l • comj)ilru dCYAnt le Comlt~. l'honot~blc deput~ du Yukon lul a dctnandt ct~~<'l rOle lcs AnQc:i:llion.1Uiit~htOtiCI ovail JOUC d~n• la prtpilr:~tion. du snttooire du JOUYi:rncmc.nt du Y11kon. Sur ce. M. Pearson a dCpo.C un document, unc: lettn: du Comc.il des l ndiens du Yukoo.

M a que«Jon C$1 la suivanrc: alimcr,vws que k gou~"Crtle­

mcnl du Yuk011 a surt'tUomme-nt CUI'Iiull6 votre ora,aniAtion tur les qt~estions eonccrnnt la Conultutlon et ~lc:i·YOUS d'ac:cord l'ttC M. PcatfiOe pout dire q~ le pverneme11l Etu du Yui01t pule u aom de touJ la fidcko:ou d• tenltoire. 011 Cctl-"* en cl&aecud :l"«Mtc dica.rati<NI de M PuriCIIl!

M • .AJIH: k clod dire q111e kl rt:llttklm de ttaV;til entre lt &QII'IttMmCflt territorial du Yw• on tt notre auoti:atioft JC

riduUent! ub pc:u de cbolla. L1 prc:u~t en est qu-e k peupk: indic:n du Yukon n.'i:it pu CCIIUIIII' k>rtqu'on red(Jc u.ne propo­sition, .queUe qu·ene llooh.

Qua_nd le goo\·ernemcnt rcrricorli•l du Yukon a prtpare toe rn~moire q,u'il a dtpoK dcvnnr 'IOtfC C<1mil!, 11 ne oollti a psa oon&ulaCs. il n'y fait mfrne jilt sllu1ion aux droib des ~~oboori&l:· tlc:t. qiiCStiOft 1r1~ C:l CKir~ti,Cti\Cnt lmportaote pour le ptuple inclien du Yukon.. C'es-11.1 que IC: polc:nt 4c Jrandd d iflicuhl:s..

SOIIVCIII on parlc de faitl $0U\'eiUA., de 1)()111\'CUC$ ordonnln­CU tt de IKIII'dlClloit au Y•t on, mais on nt tkot pas compte de peuple indim., qui a"a;t d'aUktlln pu conMitC.

M. l ui.....r.: Momx:vr le ptbick~~tt, pcnntt.ttt·:noi ck poJC':f

•.ne lijUC:SC.JOft SllpPhMI'IIOi:tC. Jc 'l'ait .. IIOirV'Ci. (aire afttJSion u CIQN. P''" que c'at k powpc am: kq~~:d fai k pha ftrolteme:ot tra.-aiiiC. J'ajrncra• YOut I)Uicr u.ne qt:estiot! i propw de l"intl!;nlian du ICCtCIIf da rasourcct nor. renouvc· table$ et dv .w:tct;lr da~ ratourcu rtBOuvdabiCJ, Comment t.nVill;age2·¥0US 11 C:h05c? Je • IIPJKIM: \lW'cn aenthlll \'OilS n'~td p113 oontrc le db-eloppement Jaul pcul·tlrc: d•ns ccrt11 in8 c::.s p""U donl l'OU3 ave~t p;~~rl6 fl~t:Q M. NlciSoen cl pour dC$ raillons qui lW: !IOJlt pcut·Ctre fill' pour le m<lmtl'lt ~ldtntts aux mc:mbrct du Comlt6. Cc:pcndanc. C:tl atnbral, tommcnl VOyet• vous l~inli~lioll de ea deux i«leura7 Au Yukon otOmme da.ns &cs Tttritoi.ru du Nord·Ouut. tl dott y a"<lir dH cha5· Kill"$ a des tr&Jli!CllrS aiad que de• &alari& qui tra,·aiUcnt sur la c:ha.ocit:n de c:onllt'lltdon, ComMtftl ~isqu.-"011! rimi­ption entte"" dcu CftKII'IWn,. tc ~ d-.ae ptn ae:~ckra .. ud

~t. Mkhd SUII (~ jwld&qiH. COMdl clft JIMii.­du Yulon~ Mm:i balfCOUSJ- PdftMttc.L·IIk'i dt- tfpol'ldr~ i tCUC quest/oiL COIIUl'l~ "011~ Je NWl, jc voudr-3U (aite qt.ttlqua c:omm<e:II1<11Jra i Pf'OPO' ck ~ q~t'a dit le couvttne· rnent tnrhotbJ du Ylilton 11ar no~ rc1Ation3 avcc lui. Vou3 .tQvet: t;jUe k 80UVi:ffttntenl ICnitorial du YI.I.On 9. fiOI;Amment pout objectir de trlu\1/ormu le t11rrltolre en p~lnce de ra~n • puuv.oir cootrl11er I~ r~uourcc:s, tunl renQUV"Ciablc:J qut n<lo rcnouV!CiabJcs, de fa9C)n A pouvoir en aoqutrlr Ja PfOprit te.

Coostitutioft du Cuad~ 11 17

(TI'XIC') 11dvocatina provinci11l Jll•lu.t to they Clltl tcqufr. tlwl oownt r5hip of the re~ree~.

On tlw' other hand, n &If,() luwe the lndi1n people who are ~~qotiatint and ate u kina to hn~ tvrncknt OCH'Itr~ 0\-tr t.hose ruou.rces In order to psttldJII.t~ ill tny de\-ck)pmcnt t nd it more or leA rei.&IC$ 10 yo~.~r q1.1fJIMifl in t.hclllC.ue that light now the YTG has bcut pusllin:a to 1e1 contrOl ovt:t re:Mwt.blt m~Rtttt: hydro dn~Jopmtnt, •ludt hat; 1 ral jrnPK' oo ou:r rilla.p:a. and hu at~ tmpad 0.1'-c trappi., ol tk lllldia..o pcclllk. J. tk Y •too T ctritory. f « cumple. lf p .-en tO build 1 dim. aay. io CastaUCb 11n ol tk: Yuloe ..-llir;b i$ kiiO'Q u

the u arc·s Nest BJuff. )'OU wwl4 hlwc to rtlocate ont" or me IIMliu villa,a. They wookf 1bo be noochn1 treu i1t •bicb Lhe lndln people ttap. So. tho&e. arc cornpcti11:1 intcrut.s ud we nnt to bave land c~imJ to ~'W"C IYfflcic:lll control ow:r those devdopmc:n.ts.

1\fr. lttlnu•r. Th~nl you ''Cry much.

ne Jol•t ClilaJflll .. (Sola tor Htrt): 1'1wwk you \' t l')' muc:h, Mr. Jtdnuar. Sctuuor Luc:ler. follo~~o·cd by IM.lnoura1:lle Jal:c. Epp.

&Mtor Ludtr: 1\anl: )'OU, Mr, Cluirman. I also would 11\e to ,_'tloomt my frie:nds from thCI Yuk.011. it is oi« to 5ce

them ill 0U••a 1nd tlltt they htYC a dl1ooe to ~~ their ...... My rust qiNSIX., Mr. OairmaA. dcak ..-itil SOIDCthiq tlaat

came 011 ol the qvC$dOII'til'll kit •cck • •th ~h. Pursoa pratftt. You sttte ia )-acr brKI, Mr. AJkn. tbt )'0111 h.aft 6,()00 lndiln people •n the Yukoe. The~ was a q"ation 11 th1t lime that that c:omptba a laf1c pyrt of 1ht stable pofMIJtdOC'I of the Y11-kon. Would I hat be 1 fair U3C$l$ment in yo..r opinT.on, nd do you buv' a fiavrc of wh.at you consid« a stable pert of the populatioo. Mr. Pcnrwn cuuld no t :m.1"A>er tlll:l, and, rightly so, beCtl\1~ U he IIIIOd they do not koc:p llull kind of Jtetistit.

Mr. AUea: Presently tbc Yukon Indian people ma le: up a tbird of Hx Yukon porulltlon and ~~occordl~ to ruearch done by tbe Dtpanmc:rn o( lndilft A!TalrJ, tl'tc:re: h.as bee::n showa tlwu there k CS ptr otlll t1l the YulOil population tlult ne lt&llii\J. pcopk rio suy in the Y•'-on appro.Jma.td)• a mu· iiiULIII olllltu )Uit.. So,,.. tab tlut l.tlto .aoo.r~t. I think. it .UO.-. 'WY dearly tht tk Yule. llldiit• people carry • -.jority ill tctrM of tlilc pmnattatl popiJa1 .... oltk Yut011 ralde!*u.

$tutor .l.Mit'r: That kick to my ~~c:.-.t quahoA, Mr. Chair· mall, dtalla.g with pnwind al JlllUJ for lhc Yukon. Mr. Pc:U"• ton stated in hi$ briel thut tl" people of the Yukoo should decide •hen we have provincial IIUUII, th11 h wuuld be done by referendum. In rt ply to 1 que:ulon. hit (celina llo'IS that t he term• of t he referendum for acqulrln.l thll t Ofllnlon would be tht:~ N mt termt that are ukd In 11. federt l c:.lcction. whi'h is reside-ncy. I am not svre. but I think it h ooe )'tl!lf tltat w·ould be the rt:bdc:ncy ror people. votlna on pf'O'tinc:inl s.tatus In a referendum. How.o would )'tMI foel about ptcn•i.ncial 5tatus cominc 10 the Yc:lton. I amiiOial'klna yov about ~~obtthc:r you avee thatthtte: shoou:ld be a rc:cft1c:tMh1m 011 prorindl.l sutut. I am ;.m tikiq ,_.about the ~~wtMd otwoec. W011id )'C* avcc

Pv.r uiltcur ... le pcupk lndicn nf.gCK.:ie et i1 demnndc vn oontrMe .-urriunt de «I Tc:51>0Um:S pOur pa.rticlpc• au df .,.tlop· pcment. A l'hure ICit.~c:lle. do~. k J041~memcnt terrhot•ll du Yukon Mpaoie de;: efforts pout obte~~ir k oorur61e dC$ rell50u rtu rtftOuvd• blcs: k ~~ h)<dro-f lecot rl~uc a aae tllride.oe pro(a.4e Mlt aos rll&lccs et sur k pitpac. Pat ex~ N 1•on OOM.lnr:kait 1111 banqe daM ll rfJbt de Cumad:i. fqJoe COIIDIK 1t0U k nom de Eajk't Ncu Bl•tf. il f.a11d:taic dfplaacr 1'1lft 4C'I 'riltqcs indJms. t..a C'ONtrvetiM ck c:e bltl"'l~ 1111it •• awl pocr dfn «FiftOI'IIkr b 21011a M kl ltldi.eM ¥01'11 trapper. lly a clone li dd intlrtts contrUk:.a.rcs et noes YOUIOIIt que IQ ~Ddiations territori.tlc:J .oic:ttt re,onllucJ de f11~on ' pouvolr CJOC'Ittt\la- aaffisammcnt c:c type de mJw en nleur.

M. lltll¥1r: Mc:rc:i bcauooup.

Le toprhldcnl (t enalt-ur lbyt): Mc:rc:i bcauc:ou1>. ll'<)l!~ic.ul lttinuar, Lll porole e.-t au &C.n~t<e~~ r Lueie:r qui sera t uh•l por l'hooofllble J1b E;pp.

Lt ibale•r t...rlrr. Merd mooS;lwt le pr6ddenc. A m011

•our. je •ul• he:ureu.x d'accucillir mer; • mis ctu Yukoo. 11 ttl COUI(Ntt aatable 6t J.u voir 1 0tta111'8., iJ CM lOu;o.n a1rf.J.hk dt bit cto.Mt l'oocadan d'upn;mer lwn opiaion&.

MOMic•r k pt&idtalt. .. prc:a.Uc: qlle$IQ M ra1t.ck 1 « q.i • it! d•t la tc:mahw ~. qualld M Pa1101t • ClOCftptr•. Mo.icur Alfe•, 'f'OIIII dius cb.DI WICJe mlmoirc q• "il '1 • 6.,0010 llldleN au Yukon. 0. 1vtit dit q" wt. rc:pttkttte une 1r111de ptlrtlc de la ~ul:ation st1blc:. du '7'1ltO.. 611-cc UllC:I, J tfOite 11111., Cl IIVC'l:•VOiiS l:lft C:bi!Yte de CC QVC 110111 considbn ~:trc \Jnt: fiii.Mic ttable de la PQPU1alion'! M. Pcatlh>l\ n·a pu pu r~pontfrc a 'ettt· qutstion et avcc rahon porot qU"C. oomme 111'11 d it. ib n'ont pn de .-t~tittique A eo fiN)CIOS.

M. Alltm A l'hwre al!1uellc. Jc. pcupk indkn du Yukon reprC.Cnlc un 1lcr11 de la populatM:lrl du terriloire cl, !'don de' recltercba ralta p11 le m.lniJt~re des AITaitu indknnc:t, 4S p 100 de la population du Yullon «1 OOO!>tilul de pcrtOOnet: m tn.Nit, 6e ptnanMt q•i )' ra:tet~l po~~r un mu im11m de trok IM carira. Ore tt (ail. •I est cbir q11e k pe.pk: iiKib d• Y•l:oa rcJdwatc a. majornt de la pop~btle. ptrmlMAk d• tcrritoirc

lA M•atrtlr Lt.tltt: M011sic:u.r le prisidcnt, j'c111 trn¥c: done l nu qucadon tuinntc: qui trahe du nuut de province pour le Yukon. Oans fOfl mtmotre. M. Porst~n a dtctarf que 111 popul:nion d" Yukon devtalt prendre unc dec:illion en tu mll t i~rc, po.r le voie d 'un rifC.rcndum. "En r!ponJe ' uno que3tion, 11 n d~lar~ que les toDditions pour IIOII"'Ui , partltlper l un ttl tHlrendum tcr. ienl I~ mltnu que: tclle.~ qui •·oppil• quc:.nl 1111)( ~ICCIIOn• (6cJ6raies, i JiWoir deJ eottditiol\1 'en mati~re dt rt.Jidt'11«:e. Je ll'en s:uis pas certlin, mai• je CI"'il JaVCidr que. pour r-rticiper j un td rlflrcndum, il faudn.il rbide:r dcpult t~n 1n au rnoiM au Y11kon. Q.e pentel.·~ du s:tatut de JlfO"~IKIC po.r le Y .. Lon! J~ 11e ¥0111 ckmai'Mk pat •i tOU IC:CCfMU ct•c 1'011 orpaisc 1111 rif'ercndu~n I cc ~ k

18 : 18 Comlilulioo ol Cenado l • I 2· 19&0

( T.-~r) that one year residenu should be all~d to \'Ote in 11!at type ()o(Q rdercndum?

Mr. Allc.: We would be absolutely opposed to $(.Jfi)Cihing like ooe }'tar in temu or de!Crtninil'lg pr<Wincial SIIIIU.S of the Yukon. I think there should be u re$idency ol' ,S yearS ~ror.::. any majot dcxision like th~t is n\ade for the Yukon territory.

Stnacor L~Kicr: Thank yoo. How lollj ha,·e your land daims negoti:u ionll beco in ptopes:s '!

Mr. Alien: ApplOxim.alely 1 year.~. Sc• a1or LIKitr: There Is no d~dline, they could go on,

E''Cl)'one hope1 they will end ne,~~t week but tltcy could go on for sever.tl more )'C:us. 1t is a vet)' complicated set of negotja. ttoM and they could g.o on for 10me time. Am I COfr«t in assuming that '?

Mr. Alien: Well, .as )'QV know, 11te o1her p;u'ly is tlte Oovetnment of Canada liO it t.akcs mutua l agtecmenu at the negqti:1ting table to speed up the procej:t. Pmently, our negotiations hln-c taken a a.reat deal of t ime simply bcxause we h11.,.e dealt with many minis1ers in the pa..s1. we htl\'e deal! with many chief t~cral negotiutors, ..-·e h:we dealt with peQple who did 001 hal'e the mandate. we ran into diiT.cuhies whith nego1istions boc:ause ..--e did no1 have access to the tninistcn or ac:c:e=~$ to I'C'(>plt wltQ m;tkc deci~iQn$ a nd I think pre~tntfy today we ha.,.e a form in our land elaims nego1iacions whereby progress Is bti.ng m11de., I 1hlnk )'OU could $te for you.rselws. by se~·eul month$.

&rutor Lucitr: Okay. I would like to thin.k you are risht oo t.hst. I a1n not about to defend the fede-ral government, I know Q:llC:d)· what )'OU are 3aying U true, Mr. Alien. Alii ;tm saying i.s that on both sides il bu been l'Cry diffi-cult al cbis point to gtt together and make a f ood cue. So, really, m)' point is there i8 no de~dline, it ooukt &<> Qn fqr SQme-time.. I :em rully leading up to the development in the Yukon, your riews on dcve!opn~nt of the Yul:Oil. Would h be-. fah to ill}' thal l-arge tr.aecs ()( l.and at yet unidentified art part or )'QUr qucsc-ion&, i$ thal not correct'?

Mr. AIJffl: That is true. St~t~tor Lucier: Also that nonrenc..-'able resources.. citber

t.h.rough ownership Ctl m.anagcmenl, :ut~ part of the discussions, t hey could han:~ an innuentt on t lte d uims.

Mr. AUtll: Yes. St• •tor Luder: So. if you were to agree IQ wholesale

deve-lopment of the Yukon a! this tin,e. you Yo'Ould in effect be agreeing to totnet hlng t.hat it urtder neg<>ti3tion, you ..-'()uld bi:­in some gse!l sivina )'OOr laOO away before )'OU have decided where it is?

Mr. Al&ett: Well, thi~ i3 I rue. I think if the proviocc::-wne tO come toda)', it would prejudice our negotiatioll:S. because within our negotiations. many or theo~e el~mtnts sre being addre=~sed .

(TrarUimiOil j vous ~ t~implement une question sur la mhhodc. AceeptCl· VOUS CCUC >CUndition d 'un 11n de rhid(;JIOC j>WJ pQU~r \'c>ICr a l'ucc::l~ion d'un ttl rtUre-ndu•n?

M . A lltfl: Nous scrions absalun•cnt oppos6.s.! une «:ondition d'un an de rUidencc pour pouv(lir participes 1 un rU~rendum eoooernant le statui de province pwr le Yukon. Je pcme qu'il faudNit imposer une oondilion dt- 5 ans de- rhidcnee i ceux qui voudront prendre p.u( ti une dCcision e.us:si import.1nte pot~r le Tertitoirt du Yukon.

l..e 3enJ1teur Lucler. Men::i. Otpuis combien de-temps «es· vo!ls en neaoeiation sur vos revendiCAtion~ tc:rritqri.1!c11?

i\{, All~n: Ocpuis 7 ans enviroo. Le .MMttu:r lAreicr: 11 n·y 11 1»11 de d.atc limite.. clld peu\•ent

.se J'lltoJonger. Tout le monde cspete. qo'elfcs se terminc:root la

.semaine prodl~ainc mu is e.llt:t pourt11 ie:nt .k prolonger pendant plusieurs anoCC$, Elles sont foM oompliquees et clles pour~icnt durc:::r, o·~t ·Ce pas?

M. Alktt: COlnn~ vous le savez, c'est le gouve-.rnemem du Canada qui oonsti tue l'autre p~,~rtie .11\lS'Si ruut.ilarri...er :\ des enleOtCS mutuelles :\ la table de nCgociation p;:.MJJ pouvoir acoCICrer le:-JWoetl.<luS. SI nO$ n~gociatloM durem depuis long· temps, e•est tout si.mpkment ~rce que:, d.ans le pOJS3C, ntKI~ :.wont eu afr3ire il beaucoup de ministtes. noos avons eu affaire a beeuc:oup de chefS nt!godateur.l de: la par1ie fMera le. noos 3von;s. eu affaire il des pensonnes qui n'avaient p<~s de mund.t t. nous nous sommes heun~s ! dC$ difl'icul!& patc:e que "'*' n·a.,.iOIU J)O'$ lt ttC$ IIUX ministrcs (11.1 i Ot:UX qui pteonent IU d~ds:ions et jc pense que. actuelfcment, lcs nCgociations sur les revcndic:ations territori111es sont e.n tr1ln de. progre.sscr, cc que vous pourrc::z cqnstater d'ki phuieurs mt:lli$.

Le .M:~tateur l,.ucier: TrC::~ bicn. J 'e$:~re que l'()ut .tWt111i1on tl oc ptopos, Je ne vais pas dt fendre le Jouvcmement fCciCral, je u :is rort btcn que ee. que-'lOut d:ites est vrai. mom.ieur Alien. Tout cc que je \'CUX dire c'e::~t que, ddl deux cOte!s, 11 a jusqu'A pmen1 ~tt uts diffi<:ile de se rapprocbct pour arriver il une S<llut i<M'I sa11sraisante. Ce que je w ux dkc:. e'est qu' il n'y a pu de Ji mite dllnll le temp~~, CC$ nt:goti:ztk>nll PQ!Jrraient encore durer. J'en arrive en fait a la question du dC\-cloppemcnt au Yukon e-1 de votte point de vue tl oc ptopos.. On peul dire. n'est~cc p<~:s, qu'il y :1 eneore d'imme.nife$ etenduts de terre.oon idenLili6es qui sont incJuses dans vos rev(;Jid ications.?

MM Allt-n: C'est vrai. L.fl sinareur Lueicr: Que c:e soit du point de vue de l.a

p.-opri~•6 ou de la gestion. lci res$00tCes noo ren<M.welables font ~uui partle-du dl.teus:sJons et el l~$ pourraient avoir une incidence sur le$ revendi<:ations.

M. AUc-1c Oui. Le: &tflatwr Lucier: Ain3i, s.i l'OUli'VUll prQnQnc:ic:x. pour un

dC\'Cioppement global au Yu};on, il l'hture actuelk. vous :!pprouwri;n en fait quclque eho;e qui raj t l'objet de n~oeia·

tions.. dans cenq,ins cu WNS dqnneriez VQ$ terres 11\'ilnl q~ \'OUS ne dteidiez Oli elles se trouvent?

M. Al1t fl: Eh bien, c'est vrai. Sl le $l.il!Ut de prO'o'inc-e ~tail oetroye aujourd 'hui. cde. port era it prejudice a nos n(:goci.ations vue q ue nou.s )' tludions beauooup de ecs 6J~ments.

Com.tiwtJon du C..uda 11 : 19

fTt.tll'l Stutor i..u<'-itr: Th.lnk )IOU, On th.c Chartu or Ricbts. you

make the east that il •-ould be, In your opinion mueh more rut~CK~able to b;l\'t )luur protection included in the Churtcr ol Rittltr as il is bcint propot;ed rlaht now, ttthcz than lea,•int il to l1tcr 11nd having h done wh~ the JWOVinc:a arc invoh-td in dc.cidina • ·h.lt JQe11 into the dlartcr?

Mr. Alkn: Well, it iJ trw. I think our ('Onccrns art "l:rf clcl_r. tNt tbt rcaJOn we C'OIII'lt before the CommhtK asa.i• k that iit rNka "UY ~ refc-mK'!C t.o ltlda.n npu.. l'hcre 5til Mm"~~ 10 bt a hcsita.ftey 01'1 the pan t/1 dw GcwtramtM ol Cuada to JUO!Jtitt lnc!W rl&hu. a.nd apodally tk Yut.o. lflllia• pcqlk wbo arc ~lfy Maotfatlq ttnti• ria:OO wbkh ..-ot~id no.- from tile tcnle:mvtt that would relate apoeili~lly to Yu.k4n lndiaft pol)lllc. Tlxrcfo~ we red the prorilioM presently in the tC'fl.loMiolt do not provide ror rtn~Jrc Cfllttl'lc-htnttlt.

Sas• toor Luder: So. )'(lu N:tllly arc quarrcllllli whh - ·h:n soe• into the Charter or Riahtll, ~~ )'OU fe-el for )'Oilt&el\'eS aDd lr )'(1&1 can speak for other grouJII ' ' 'f''Clll in thi~ peni<:ular inllllnOC, t hat the native people or Can.da ~Id bt m.ueh bcttc.r protcc.ccd by a eh.lrter of 'IJ)Ita Included i.n the reJOI-u· tloft tight tiOW!

Mr. AJJ.ta: Tbat ;. tru-e.

8Ha101 .t...kr: Than}; )'0'1.

0. pqe I of'f'C*r brief. Mr. Allm. )'011 state aM I.-iD rad tllil:

lt1 tt:r'ltll of lk mpoMtDIII11ie:t • • Mw eo 011r pcqlk. our mo~t Important role' b to •caocilte a acttlcmcnt witll Caaada so chat our aboriaiul r1allu. eMit riaht.5 a.s tbc onainal OW!Kr.i a.nd occupenu or tbc Yu\on, are deatly ddincd and entrenc-hed,

Your pu~~ition is 11nd h:u bee-n fro•n duy I on your negotla· tiona that )'00 own all the: land in tM Yulto~t until .s.u<:l~ timt. ll$

the d aimt ure ~ttlltd und )IOU dteldt. who il tht:n going to own ••h1 parll. Am I corre~o.; in thfl t auurnpdon?

Mr. All.ta: Tbat i5 tr..e. SNaocor IMM-r: Now, Mr. Pai"N))II ln ~~~ brid I tbouJ}!t

-ut • bt:g way on bc.haJf of the people ot tht Vakoo i.n ~IICflina that lhe npu ~ tile ·~ pcopk$ or Caaa· •~bofi&iaal pcoplcf of C.Uiia, tiOC the Yu~kl be 'Kelllti:&cd. 1 .,ai• ha~ dilf.atky lt')'ltll 10 r1a•n o.t .,_. lhcx QD be Clltt'Cl'Kboct ttnlll IJioo)' IR: cktcrmincd, I am WOftdt:riQB if Mr. Peai'SOI'I wu re~lly n atillj tbat he is ift • areemcnt on bch;alt of the Ylilton caritory lO bavc }'O'l t rights to c~C"-r)' iqUa'c i.neh ollaDd in the Yukon entrc:nclw>d in the com.tilution. 1$ that )'OUt potihl<lf'l, that yov 6o own all that land. and how would we aet that Into leJi.dation o:r into 11 Cbaner of Ri&ht~?

Mr. JGe: Well, w~t we iU&ghted in the flllll was that what •'1l do-th~r~ a eouple of dantent here "'\'ClAre in the~~ o-f a dil«nma, •o to speak-if ,.,.e ar~ to dc:line •pccifteaiJy what lboti,Pnal right$ ar~ ~ do two thin&..: •·c fOfe&o )lny mutual •ecot-iltion of what tbo5e ri&htw ltC "'ith tbc Govc.rDmcot of Canada ar.cl lrilll tbt GOI"'trfUl'IC_ftt of Y1.1kon. h appears to me. tlut il 1101 a 'tWY aUnc=ll\-oe alttT .. tivc; Of', •hal ..--c do is.. •>t

(TrDJwcti(Htl Le lllt~•teur UIC"-141': Men:i. A YOtre avi~. 11 IU::tlllt bcuucoup

pill~ raiJOnn~~obl~ d'lnelute vos prote«ions c.k. la Ctwne d~ droiu: tellc qu' ellc cat prQIIOSh ~ l'hture aetuclle plutO. que d'auendrc pour ccla que le3 provincet plu ddpelltllul!. d~<llliona qui seront pritu ' ur ee que l'on inclura dans la Cl\auc?

M. Al .. : lib blc11, c'at vrai. No:s pr6ocalp~tio"' llOfll trfs claira. je pmte. d A noc.• tom-.cs ~11 ""-•t \oiOltt

Coml-ll. c'cat q••o. K fait q~ac de ~ rtf&tnota an droiiJ

da llldiCM 4aM Cti ~Le aoc~raernc.t d• Ca•d& lallbk ICMI_jourt h&iltr l recoualtt't b dtoiu cb llld!C"-M. et MlriOUl CC'U.\ d• peuplc indim du Yl!ba q•i M&«k actuelte. ll'ICflt ""af.v 4rotu. Nous otimortJ pu toftt6qttCnt qiK la diipot.idou aetlldlicl de la r&olutiOfl ~ ptmMcnt Pfll. Jkl•t l'aYCnir, l'inch1Aion du droii:J qui scront nlj:ocib.

Le dftateur L11der. P.u oonstquent, VOUJ vou1 CJIIIIOSCI l cc qui fisurt d/l1U ocue Chart~ de1 drolu, mala vou& ctotlm~z que Jcs autoc:htuncl du Canada seraient bien mleux prot~tb p.r 1111c: chartc dei droh1 lnelu.ie dan.s la 'bolution •c:Ue qu'cllc ell • l'hc!urc ae1uelle?

M. Alic-•: C'tit wai..

LC' iii•at('tlf t..c-lm Mud. \tOII!ltNr Allca. 1'0111 dCda.ru daM WJitc ...e.mai:tc;

NOlr~ plu;a iniJ~Q~~Unte rcsponsatilttt i rtptd de -~ pcuple COMC:fnc la MsoQatiou d' urw c•tflt~ avo: le Cuada de 1•9011 A cc- q~~:c QOS dtoiu d'abotialMi, ne» droit.t ck proprlft:ajre. d d'oca~panu atl.s.ind' du Ytlton 10icnt claireiTMint d4:fini• et ii!Ciu;s.

Dcpuil le !(Kit d~bllt de YOS nCaociutions., ~& IVCt adopt~

~;~ne posit~ aelon l&quc:lle '1\'luS f tts les proptittairct de t~• tu les tcrreli du Yukon tant que let revendication• n'auront pu i t! ~a.I~CI cur, A cc MOtntnl. '10\15 pourre~ alort dkider de 111 rCpllflltion du ptort,, Et.t•ec bicn oorrcct1

M. AUe•: C'aa vni. l.e if•••tw IAK'i~ DaM soo mtmoi~ M. Pt.anon fah

bcalKlOIJp pour le f!C'I~e d~ Yvkon ¥8 qt.il Pf'OIIC* 4IIft: kl droit~ ckl pna.911a ·~ dv Ca~~ada.. fll' d~ Yul.M, dnnicnt ftre fCCODoiW1o. J'fpmi\'C ""joun lk .. ct.traht I ii'IUaiMr OCMhmC:IIU ill PC*fT•ien:t ftn i!ldcs da• te ~ftCIII eot~~thlltioftnocl .. nt qu'dt ~t;'urocu pu itl tb•rcft!Crtt dottcnni­ft&.. Jc me dctnuck ai M. Pnrsoe VOillait fll rail dire-q~ u nom d u Tcrmoltc: du Y11kon, iJ oaooeptt que ¥C& dtolta 111.\

lerres du Yukon aount .ndl.ll daM la (gnstnuuon. Voua estimn done que VOUI etet~ le$ cUttfttC:Utl de toulc C.UC lc.t,C

mals Ci.li'I\MCnt tell poll r-tait·iJ tHe ineluS dans Uflt lol OU ciAnl unc Ch"'ru: dtt drolta7

M. Jtk: 11 )' n un ct:1tu.in nombre de d11ngctJ qulllc pc»enll ee prop011, noui Jomm~ en quelquc ~one prit daru un dllemme Pllrce que, 'I nout dCfinlsiOI'Ii priciseme.nt tn quoi COIU.Iitent lcs drona de~ •borlatnC$, nour d~'OO$ ptc.ndrc deu~ mCJ\Itt•: nout at.ndoni'O.ftl 101.\lC· "" de M~lliotl mutudle avee le p~t du Ca1114a et avo: k gouvcnx:~Mnt du Yd.:011 poar dhumiMt ea dtCJill, J'dli~De q.e " n'ac pas ll \Ilk

11 ; lO -----------~CoMCatl.lhNoiCuada 1· 1:!· 19'80

ITt--«) build r• • pnttal ~ ud I WOilkl 1•gca.t 1t.1 1flc

~ c.rrenlfy udet Scc1ioa 24 if • "'' too JtftCtaJ. h don 1'101 •prat ab<Mit • hldl oatift' ri,ghu an: ulllder conaidcr­auon, arc tho.c n•ln"e rf.J,hts the tre:lty nghu., arc tbey the native riahiJ •hh respect to righa uDder the Roytl Proc:t.ma­tlon, r/ahtl thill WC hllVC UnclCf the 1870 l t'SnS((t or l•r:lfl (0 Curmd11 rcx Rupcrr s LarnJ and the North"''''' TtnltOfiC'I. None or thwe arc vc1y d ear. What we suggest i~ thnt we allo.,... t he neaothuinl Pflx:c~ to wntinue.. but we raciUuuc that prGCC~ by lrrCOfpotali.ng a provision th.at will oonftlhnklnully entrench ~~o·l\ll t cvcr dtlllll, wh;~tc,'Cr :!&rccmcnta ~c tnllkc •·ilh the 00\-ernmc:nt of Canada · ·hen lh.at aoJde.~ day it rcacl!ed.

Sc-MIOt lAc•Wr: I do DOll like IO be peuimitt~it, ~t I ,,. JI*'C ..oeckn.., • "-t a.ppcas whet~ )'011 do .x ..

Mr. e,c Y 0111 l:oow the JO'U'Gmftlt..

S..t., L«ltr: 1 •• ;ut wood<:riec .-hathllppc•lr )'011 do IIOl resell an aareemcnt on l:r:nch.. I think tll3t Is ,-bly tile but e.umplc. lr you do not come to u aarccmcnt • lt.h the Govctnmcnt ol Cllnada 0t1 bt!ds. you at that point have entrenched 1hll tl\c llbc.iJ)IQI r i!tlti llao;e glwn )'00 tll or t.hCI land in •he Yukon. Wbcre doe:s t hai leave the l"e!ll or the people In the Yuk0t1.

Mr. Nl~~n: I Cllln Jive )'0\.1 an even bcller example.

StAI TOI' l.MtlerJ I think Mr. Nkben will have lno1hcr turn on the MAl rou!MS, Mr. Chairman, I would hkc to ba"e thi• ...

Mr. Jet: Wdl. I like your defmitioll o( lboriJ)nal r\J~U..

&l'r. £Pfe ltltoiJ&ht )'OU wo.klfiU tAIL

Mr. Jer. I ccttaW)' lOt ~ ..ou.kl like to IIIJ t'-at o-r aborici.nal r(Jhu 1Jy-c u;s title to all ol the !:led ill tk Y•bM. At th.il point in tlmt, u Mr. Alierl cx:ptUM:d. we ra!Ju '"' there ate certain polhlc:.l d rcu.mstances th3t ba¥e oc:eurrcd in the l:t..U I '0 )'CIIN which were be)'Ond our control and whkb are now beyond our c:ontrol. All we arc Juucs:tlna b. t proc:al that would v.Uow (I) ncgotiatioos to ~ 00111cludod and (2) when they are co~ludc:d u p(l'-1ibility or taking 1 docwJIIIIml, ' "'(;h ru thl•. Qnd I refer to tbe Canadi.;rn c:on.uhution. Urko &.n aJtccrnent tha t •·c would b&\'C wilh the Govunrncnt ol Canada, tpt~e~~dh,& lt to this doeume:nt. Th11 ~•>' we Jd cntrcflclrmau: like t he te;rms of Union in Britlah Columbia in 1171 , ltkc tM Muitotlt Act. or 1870, b..t thc:sc ri1hu .._w be Jaoorponted lflth• ~mt:nt.

S..utOif I.Mk:r. l"'laak you, Mr. Cbimua.

,._. J.reJ Qafr ... (St.lor HaJS): Tlwr~lt ya. 't'Wf m.ch. Suatot Lltcicr M r. Epp foUowed by Mr. AJI..and..

Mr. [pp; n .. nt y011. \ fr. Ctu.irman..

I also want to wciNrtM: tt"ptesenutivcs ol the Council o( tlle Yukon lnditlnt. Cfpce:iaUy it is &ood to Re Mr. Ehjah Smith aauin,ll r~pcctod elder and World War 11 veteran.

Whac I wuuld like to start oiY with, Mr. Alien, b 1ho t:O!KtJ'IC of lec,hitMC)'. I think at one look3 nl t:UIUtitutiont t rrd tfle

(T~W~Uimc.} totsooe ttCs iat&c:srautc; 011 bMo Mild •.:IIIOM !lAC liispolhioll de portCe ,CIIiralc et l e:uime jut! cmc:nt que la dispoliticw act~llts de rutidc l 4 toonl Ull PI• ltop &f;ntrab. 0a ,.•y dit P'" de qoeb droits autoduonct 11 ot quttt*'. s':~.g.it -il da dtolcs des ttaitC... de~ droht rtl~tifl A la Prodam;r.tion roy:~.le, droitS doni nous jouit10111 tu litre du transfert de t«I'C:I au Canada de 1870 A propoa ck lll terre de Rrtpert et des 1'c:rritoires du Nord·Ovcllt'f Mien de 1011t «:la n'eJl tri:s d ;rir, Nou• pro~s qu'on lai.J$1! IC l*uulvre le proees.s"' de n~goci:atjon mai.s qu'on le racill te en pr6vopnt une dispotition qui pel'meura d'i.nclure dans la Conttitlttfon tootc: cntcnle qui pourtll ttre conduc avcc le JOII\'trMmcnt du C~truda, qua.nd ~ jo~::r mc:rreilleu.l artiYen.

lA sftlaceur Luoeier: Je M l'O~ra• pu lt~ pt:Mimktc mtU jc me demu!de cc q•i Je f*Mn it ~ ""' a 'a'rie:l pu ...

M. £w Vous COMSiatz blu k p~L

U s&..ttw Lacim: Jc nw dcmllack limpkmalt "' qv:i se ~MUait si .ws nc Jlllt¥rl'lin pit A •• ctl~te t•r ks tcna. Je peme q:ue (;'at problabkment li le mcilkar c.rcmple q~tt:

1•orr pu.lae ptc:l'ldrc. Si VOtill n~ Plt'YttiU pu • u.ne entente l't'ee

le JQUTCrneme:nt d11 Can.da • Pf'09(M del tttret alon que lea drolts des abori,J(nes 5001 ur.clut da.ns la~ tcll.tCII du Yukon.. qu'nd"'ient·il du rcstc dc ln popul ~r.t5on du Yukon1

M . Niebn: Je pourrab VO\II donner un tliCmpfe encore n'lelUttrr.

Le &ill•twr L.adf.r: Mon,lc.ur Nicll cfl 111ira un aut.rc tour, monsieur le prmdent. et J'lhn«a.it bic11 qull me laisse termi· ner cdul-cl

M. Jec: J'aimc t.ea YOt.~ MnnittOn des droiu des UtoebtoftCI..

M. £pp: Jc pmsaif bica "" ..... rauntnt.t. 1\1 • .Jac Jc tais ttnaillefiMfll 1"\lll d.t etU qu..i croicac. q..e

IQ dnJitJ ea taat q11'ntadttonct tiCW coo~nt loe droit de ptoptiftf. sur loutes lcs tcnu d11 Vt~ltOft. Ccpelllhnt.. com.mc M. Al !en l'i~lquait. nous comptcnons q•e dea t'rtnemc:ntJ PQ(itiques K· $0111 ptodulu ou cours da ISO detl'lletd artn«s sur fcsquels nou.s n'11vo.w cu et noua n·avons toujours auc:un CQflt rOie.. Tout ce que nou8 50\lhOIIOfll mainteBa.nt, c;'~

4'abot'ld d 'en arrlver :l unc b8uc hc\l rcusc dans nos n~gociations e t ensLtite de po11voir lncfuro cettr: entente avce: le gou¥eJne­ment du Canada da1u un document oonrme eetu.i~i . c:'~-.i ·

dire la constitution eanadlennc:. N01.11 vuu.lon' voir lndusc unc teiJe c.otertte commc ee fut k Cif pour lea oondit~s de I'Union c:n Codom.bie-BritanlliqPC en 1111. I'Actc du ).{anicobl de 1170. Ca: drciti ttraimt mt&in& d•M le dotliltDCOL

Le R u1c. L.tftr. Mm:l. ~r lir prtt,idtftt..

lA C'Opl&i•n• (Mutt• ll.ll t ): Mctd be .. cou~ s&latn~r L!Kier. C"e.t i M. Epp. 1•M de M Allmiia4.

M. t:w Mcrd. mo•it•r le praick~;~t. Je $Ui3 Cpl~ment heurtull. de aouhaiter la. bienv~ue U l.

reprbencanu du Corucil des lndacn~ du Yukon., en partieuJitr M. EUj:~.h Smith uDC foi~ de JN••· un :u.c:lc:n de l:a bande fort rcspeuCc et u.n ~itErtrn de la S«undc Guerrc mondi;~le.

Jc $Wh:litetals d'abord p11rlcr dclu quc;tkm de- l :~ Mgitirnit6. monsieur Alien. l.c ptit~Cipe: ronchurrcnt•l de toute cunstitution

3·12· 1980 Constitution du Caoada lil : 21

(TtXttJ drdlin& or same, there is ~~ undef'Jirding principle or legiti.mac)': is noc only the action lcg.itimate, but ar.e also the people in:voJvcd. ()()they him::-a fl\llndute And do they thercfcm: I\;I'I'C t he I)O'I''cr of the imprimatur of lcjitimacy on the .,..hole prooess and in fa« what con~>e~ out of that process.

First of all I would like to ask you, Mr. AJkn. do you oon.sldtr that the Yukon si)Yernment spah f<lr :ell c:itir.ens ()f Yukon?

Mr. AUe•: ihey do noc. Mr. £pp: Could yw ex.pla.in t h;u. pleMe? Mr. AIJta: Well, I su~s 11n eumplc I could give ~s tluet we

have bad rc:rw::ral a&.Scmbfie.s in the Yukon in tet0\1 ol Yukon lndiao people gathering together from the 12 conununit!e:s at d iffeTent time$ ()( t he yc.~r And nt different :assemblies now continuously resolutions have oome ror---ard in our a.ssemblies stating that the Yukon territorial goveTnn~nt do not ~prcstnt the Yukon Indian people.

Mr. l'.fp: Do Yu.kOfl Jndi:an people V<llc- ((lr rcpu.sentaliVd tlutt sit in tbe lcgj$.lativc as&embly ol Yukon?

Mr. AIJet~: Wdl, tbe thing is, we did not act thq.t YQte until 1960.

Mr. Epp: lr«oiniz.e that. That •·as not only the c.ase of the Yukon Indians. that w:u the cut rlghtaet0$S Cana&a. I think all ol u& know tho~ circum~tn!Kell. Hut llinoe 1960 h:aw Yuton IDdians, tbat i$, members oi the CYI-1 am oot ta.llinJ about the offictn but members ol the CYI, have- l.hey boen voting for representatives of the leaisJati\•e aM~embly ol t he Yukon Te.-ritory1

Mr. Allt.n: Yes. Mr. Epp: Have m~mbers of t.he CYI bt~.n members or the

Yu.kon TeiTit<>ry l.e&itl~ture'! Mr. AUtt~: Yd. Mr. Epp: Art t.he present memberS of the CYI on the.

Yul:Qn legislawre'! Mr. A Ilea: YC3, there is., throoab indivkhml choice. Mr. Mkllad Smltll (Ltcal CouMtl, Cou~ttll for Yukon

l ndiaM): I think we. $IMmld quulify tha.t point. They are-S:a)'lng that I~)' ue member.s of tbe CYI and the YT(; Territorial Council These indi·viduals are lndl.an people who ba'o't run undet thdr <Wm j»rty lnbel;s. f'or uamplc, we- llave one member for the LiberaJ patty and one for the Consen•ati,·e Party. These Ind ividual~ run under these pilr1id, tht;y are not runnins under a CYi ticket.

Mr. Rpp:: I understand the clrcutn.usnoes. All I am trying 10 get to the bonum or i.$.. I am not talking 11lxwt indi,·idu:ab, but whetber tbe CYI is a univeually held view of members who belong tO the CV I, tlult they therefore. because they bek>ng to the CYI do not rCOOfnize or cannot r(:()(ltJiize tbe leihimacy ur tbt Yukon govemment, ehhtr ~ition or g~-ernme:nt.

Mr. M. S111ith.: Tbc CYI ha.s been nd~·ocat ina ror a Ion& time that ln<Han people should have a meaoingful s-.ay in t.he governments of the- Yukon. HO\'·ever, during the last few years, because of the relationship with the governmem. the c:abinct lniniste.rfi for dtt YTO, there has been a ge~~eral view

f1'rttdurtlt.m) ou de IOU I projel lk oon•titution doit Ctrc lot IC.,itimitC: il (aut &e demander si non seulement la demaN:be est Ugitime. mais ~sa lemcnt t~i let &tnt qui t'cn occupent lljlincnt de fawn leiitime. lis doivent avoir le m~nclut et !'imprimatur n-Coc:»ai· res pour 16g.itimistr le processus ainsi que son rhultst.

Jc l'O\IS pose done la question w ivante, moosieur Alien: troycz·IIQus que le-SOU'<erntn~nt du Yukon rePfl!Unte tou!l la <:itoyens du tcrTi toire?

M. Alien: Ce n'e't ptt.S le CA$. M. Epp: Vous pou,·tz nouJ dire pourquol? M. Alltn: Eh bien, jt VOIJS dlrai slmpltment que Id 12

oommunautfs indicnnes du Yukon ont ten~o~ des wembiCa g6:n~r3lcs et qu'A oes assembl«s g~n6ratcs. de nluhiplcs r~solu· tiortS Ot'll Cte!- pre!sentbe:s a!Orm.ant que. (t. g<>u\•trnemcnt du terri toire du Yukon ne reprC5enle pas le pwple indicn du YukOt'l.

M. £pp: tu lnd!em du Yukon ne vOlent-lis pas pour les rcprC.sentn.nts qui siCgent i I'A.s$emblte ICgidath-e du Yukon'!

M. Allt.n: Nout n'avo.u eu le droit de vote qu':l partir de 1960.

M. Epp: Je l'ndmets. mnis ~.:ell! A Ct6 VTili dan.s toot le Canada. non pu sculement pour Its IDdiens du Yt~ton. Nous Av<lnt IOUS queUe ~taJt la situation :\ octte ~poquc. Ocpuls 1960, QCpendant. ks l ndiens du Yukon, <:'Ut•.t·dire les mem· brcs du Conscil des lndien.s ctu Yukon, non pa.s $CUiemenl les did,&eants du COt'lstil des lndtcns du Yukon. n'ont-lls JXU vote pour lcs reprit;cntant.5 qui siCgent a I'Alsemb!Ce ICj.i&hlltn·e du tcrritoite du Yukon?

M. Alle~t: Oui. M. Epp: Y a+il eu des membre8 du Conseil de$ lndtens du

Yukon qui ont ~t£ blu.s A I'Asscmbl6e ICaislative du tetritoire? M . .'\Ut"ll: Oui. M. £pp:: Y en a·t·il pr&entemen1 qui y siC&ent?

M. Allw: Oul, par d \Oix penonncl. M. Miebael Smith (cot~nillu juridique, Cooseil des lndicn11

du Yukoa): 11 oonvieflt de prtc'iscr que QC5Jcns·IS se discotl la fois membreJ du ConSltll de~ JndJcns du Yukon et du gou\~rne· meat du terrjtoire du Yukon. Cc IQnt dt:t IIM;Iieru qui a:c: Jont pd5enth sous la baniare de kur parti. C'est ain:si que nou5 avon$ un mcmb~ du part! liWr.!.l et un auttt du parti oonstr· vatcut. !Is on1 adhtri a ecs partis: ils ne $Cl son~ !»3 prhc-ntCc £OUSI11lxlnn~rc du Consei\ des lodicns du Yukoo.

M. Epp: Je oomprend$ trCs bien. Je nt parte pll.t des scnr de (a!fOn gt:nhale 1nsis des membres du ConKil des lndiem du Yukon. Je tentc de dEterminer si en tant que me1nbres du Constil des lndioens du Yukon il5 estiment tQUJ qu'i ls ne pe~o~vent JM$ ;sdme11re 1a Ugitimit6 de I'Assemblk du Yukon, de !'opposition eomme du g<~Uvcmcment .

M. M. Smilh: Lt Consei\ des lndicn5 du Yukon prCc:onise depuis k>natcmps que lcs lndlcns so!enl appel6.s i jouer un r61e utile dans le gotJ\'Crnement du territQirt. Cet dernl!-rd annCe$, le:s rchuil.lns ;wee. le tou~erntment Cl Ju mi111$tres du iOUVeot· nement du terriloirc du Yuton Etsnt ce- qu'elles sont. les

11 : ll

(Tu·r) tlllll we buyoou their clecd-ont, The CYI hulf ro.rbld8uny or iu otnceN or c:mpf-o)'C"I:5 to rvn r01 a posit.ion on the: YTO.

Mr. C.. Do yoo forbid them LOwot.t!

Mr. M.S.itk No. .e do 11101 lcwbicf them to Y'IOtc.

Mr. [Pfe So. it is poMibk th•t CYI olficcrs who an. by •htllc or ywr by-laws allowed not to ran ((K o"Kc. are In fact votin£ for members or the Y11kon aovunmcm?

Mr. M. S 111ith: J do ~ think we have tbe power to prohibit anyone from voting in YTG dcC'tioJU..

Mr. 1t.,.: Wdl. I am pkalitd )'011 ay tbu bcca•tc eo ntY wt.)' o( th:i11lin& that woald tllco rco:;Jplizc tlat you att:

rcootiiii.Uftl tiM fqium<acy of the Yul011. IOVUftR'ICflt

Mr. M. S..hll: To a.n clltcnt we do.

1\tr. E•po: Oo yw reco.anb_, the lqitii1Uicy. ;~nd thit: mlaht be llontewhat &C.!Ui ti\'C but I will 11jk 11, do you t'C(OJIIh:c the lc:11tlmaey or the clcclion of a fcden~l memb!r of Ptrlituru:.n t 10 att in tbc (edenl Parlia•ncnt?

A• ..... Member: They do 11ot hke the rc:s~~14.

Ab . (,.: I ~.m 1110t tatldq aftout the teAh&. th&t *' a pettONJ tt.oioe.

Mr. M. S.jtk I da not kiiOW whetbct or 110t wt hid a c:ho.c:c ln the last eJection.

Mr. [ppt I do n01 think J'Ol.l did. lthil'lk you elected the" bc1t pcrtOn. but what J am gculna to is che principle. WMt I am tr)•lna to sc:.c to. obvlout ly, 11 that there arc ordc:ra or IMtn· mc11t In Canada. to my way of thinking tbey are kJitlmate. I mlalu .haw some rescmubta about tbc preKnt p-ernmvn oo the ftdual kYel :u wdl bat I acocpt thcU kJjtimcy u a eiUU"III, ud trO 1fhlt I Am 11)'11111 10 poitlt 001 iJ. ia h )'OUr

,.,..,,. that •hat •c ~"as a kaitinut.c: !OWrnt~~~•t at the federal le-vel, that we r~o,.rd~e u a kaitilNcc pctntMnt 111 tho Yukon level, tM ccrrltor/al level. that the land claimJ notwhlwand1ng, those aon:rnmctllt 111e le&itimtetc by virtue of the po•·~r1 v~ted In the federal P11liamc~u to. in fact. JlllU the Yukon Ac:t?

Mr. Joe: I am &fad that )'0'1 are wmiq from chac t~lJie.

~,. Epp. bcca~ if, i• f.c~ . ... do f«<,g.niu, lk· l~tlmacy aa ,.,. J*l it o/tlte Gcwwll!mlt ol CanHa and 1U oft•'JfWtfl&., the OcMo'trlllmc:llt o( Yu.bwl., albeit deformed 81 thtf pllint 1111 time b«a\de oC){ iU !.ad ol a COMIJM.IOMJ il'ldq:cedee«, I wo.fd

t!\.c1t 11)' that it our *""""" il to be ya. and u Mt. Snuth u~c:d, it is partblly yu, then it appcan to me the Oov~tn· mcnt of Canada mQ&t ulso rccoati•J..e its own leghln\1\tc h••·3 whh rc•pcC'I to Mthoc: people In Cttnod-<1 51.1ch at the Royal Proclamation.

Mr. I!:Pr: I am not arsui111 • ·ith the elecitimaC)' ol )'O'Ir vi•J!Oint. Mr. Joe. What I am uyiJI& to poi11t out is that )'Wr poRtbt;. lillbtte il is lctitimt1C Oft tlx qucstim o/laMJ daimt llqOilaiiOII. .... •ko lqihtl'llltc role ol the Govml~nr:•t of thot Yukon.. IAI!t f think it U ICI'I«i&IJ)' attt"pced, ud I pti"'IUJiy

at"ccpc 11, that tM f«leralao~tcmmcnt hiiJ tM p;~•~r il'l fact to

J.-12-1980

(TIOIIJiarlonJ l ndtc:M de (a90f1a-lnCnalc ont dtlm~ qu'il folia it bo)'()()lter le& ~lcctioru~ Le Cunsc!l dca lndiens du Y1,1\0n llli·m~me intc:tdit d .scs dirltcants 011! w c.m,ao.y& de se prUct~ter ctl vue de fa ire pJitlie dUI !OU\'trMmenl duterritoirc du Ywk.on.

M. £¥p: Vout kur •ntttdi.sel: de voter'

~L M~ Seitlla: Noa. pas de 1'0Ccr.

M. f,. IJ at dotK paulbk qull 1 "'' dd di~a du Conscil da lndicn. du Yukoa qui votctat pour de$ mcmbrH du rouvcrncmcnt du Yukon m~me .t.i, en vertu de: VOl re,lemenLt, il5 ne puwtnt pat Je prf:sentcr eux·mhncs.

M. M . Smhtl: Nout t~'avons pllt le pcM~voir d'interdire a qui que cc fiOit de voter lori des 8ccdona en vue d'Ciire let mc.mbrcs d~,t lt COU"trnement du terriloire du Yultoo.

M. £.,c Jc Alii hcu:rt:w. de ¥011& l'cntcadn: cUrt putt qvc ;e·m 6Cdtatt que ¥OUJ Nmeua qaad IM~ne la litittmrtl ctu pvn'K.nc-nt diU Yuto..

M. M . S• lllil: O.DI •ne n>rUI:M tnetllte:

M. E.p,: J'admets que b quutiol'l ol dtlkate. ma•s JC voudr&IS; ttwolr al ~>UuJ ndmcttet 1:1. l61illmi1C de I'He«ion d' un dCpuiC II,U Parltmcnt r&IC:tl\l'l

UM toix: 11' ne )Qftt pu tdlemc:nt he\lreu~o des rtsl.llt.t~tt.

M~ E.,: Jc" park r-s cb r&.kalt.. c'ti.t uc q•cmo. de dlob. pc noetMI

M. M. S.hlirl: Jc M uls pu si IIICMlt ,.;on, vra~I'IIIC:at le dlobi Ion d.c: la dernl~n flca.ion.

M. £pp: Jc aub bicn d';H:<:ord avce VOIIJ VouJ avcx ocpcn· d.ant C:h• In pen1onnc la plus apte A OCC\I IIC-' Le poste:. Ce qui m'l.ntCrease, t'C51 111 prll'lcipt~ 11 )' a. commc:. vous les savc.z, d h'erS or-dm du JOUvcrnement 1111 C11ntda. J 'c:stime pour l'l'lll

pan qu'1lt 110111 I~Jitimcl. J'ai p«~l.ft,. qu~lqucs rise.rva tdatiwrremcru •• pvt:n'lemeflt act:ud i l'tdtdon fld&a.l. mail c:n taal que dtoym. ,e n.c: mcu ,a ee hte cctk: qitimitl.. Cc 'IlK ic:M&IC .,..;Giftlt 4c dCtcflllliMr. C'"c.l 11 woa ClOflteata

la Jq:itimitC .oit d• IOVYttnctl"letn fCcWn~l, JOlt d~ goo..-cme;­mcnt d11 Vuko11, du aouvcrncm.cnt du Tcrritoirc, a.i YOUll con­testeoz le: dr.,h du f'arlc.ment fCdCI11I , mif t p11t l8 question det rcvc.fldicationt ttf11101ial~ . d•adopter In l.ol •ut le Yukon.

M. Jot: Je tult heuuu que voot poalcrla quc:~tion de cclte (•9""- manaic~or £pp. puiaqu:e no.li reoonnaitsont Cll efT~ la JqitimitC.. oomN ¥OtH k ditcs. du JOU''e~t dlt eu..da aia:si q~ de u crf..tba. k !(*fttMJ'aeftC du Y11l 01lo mime ti elk est. .quelquc pcu dUI)I'IIIie i CiC' mQIIIC:nt<i t e:.usc de .,.. man.que d'utcWpcndat~te COAStitution.ncllc. Ccla dit. si ..ocre r.:ponse est 0111, ct M. Smrt!l a indict~ qu'cllc I'Ctoit n-ee des rC5enoes , k: souvc1nemen1 du Cnn~dti. 11\lUr 'a pan. ~~ teconn11~hrc: ha lfalthult6 de ses prupr~:11 lois IOu('htnl le5 lndle.u ~~~Canada tom me hi Proclamation I'O)'a1e.

M. C,: Jc ne me-lt pas en doute I~ bkn·(~ de l'(llte arz.u:nt:ftt. tnOift&ICur Joe. J 'csuic &implement ck ''OUI fairc '"'*rqgcf q• tt VOI.d a'l'tt taisoo d'•air comme wo.s le faita pour ce qul ctl de t. q~KS~ioa cks nw-ttchcattom t.crritoriaks « de$ rOles q«~e doit ;o.a le pverncmcn• dw v ... oo. 1'011$ de-vu: adi'I!ICt tte. comrnc ~ l'admm moi-~t'M et rl 01 a;fnohakmcllt

3-11· 1980 Constitution du Canada 18:2.3

(TI.XIt') p;us lq is.lation whkh has given legitimacy to tbt: Yukon JC1'~rnment. and what I have diffi~llll )' Uolkl'$tllnd in& from your pan is that while tbe land claims ptooess. aOO I am pl~sed to see it go fO«"wtrd under the regime that hc>pef'ully wme of ut had a lillle bit 10 tW with. that that is a sc.pe.rate question, tbat is a land claims questioo and a s:epsrate quesdon from your ar'8ument of whether or not th~ Yul:on 30"~rment it ll:shimate <w not.

Mr. JIH!: ihut i$true.

TM Joint Ch.1irm•" (SeiUtOf H•ys): Thank you )'Cry muc;b, M r. Epp. Mr. AIJmand.

Mr. AUnun4: Mr. Chairman, to the witnesses. bow loog hll\'t the Yukon Indians been able to trace their histOcry in tbt Yukon Territory?

Mr. Allta: I think 60.000 ye~r$ >~I t he la:n ~oum.

Mr. All:m1111d: f:ltcuse me? M r. AUea: Siltty tbo11;1and yea!'$, Mr. All•lllld~ You have. actually done research tc> trsce 11

bac,k that far? Mr. Alk:n: Well, not researc-h. There has bt etl work dooe

tbt indicates we go back 60,000 yc~r.s..

Mr. Allmand: All right. Bdore the gold rus.h or 18'98, what percenta8e of the Yuk(ltl pt>pui;Hion W\lS non· lndiRn? l ;1m not u.sl:ine for specific fiJurcs but I know in researohin& your claim. )'Ou t;ot into some or tM:u nt.ures. Btfore-t.he g old rush Of 1898, What percentage WIIS n()n•lnd j;ln'!

Mr. Elijah Smilh (Vict-Chairml n, Cound l for Vuk0r1 IDdi•ns): Well. I \\'liS not alh•e ror tM: gold rush 001 1 was a round when . ..

A• ho11. Member: Ask Stanley Knowks. Mr. E. Smllt1; When tlt~re: were very few wlllte men in tilt

Yukon and I can n.1me them ofT, ptiiC.:tfcaly every one of lhem, betausc tbere we-.re no mote. than 12 to 15 tesidenu in the Yuton •·hen I wa~ a kid plllyins h<ICkey thc.re.

Mr. Allmnd: Wb111 time was that. EJijsh? Mr. E. S111Jth.: That wu 1912. Mr. AIJmnd: Well. I understand from history that durinJ

tlte period of the gold ru$h, from about IS98to 1905, more or lt~:J, tRill 100,000 liOn· Yukoners came into 1he Yukon~ mos1 of them white. and prior to dte gold rush a very s.mall perce~uage of the population 1¥1$ non-Indian and. •~ you pointed ()Ut, ;r.fter the g~d 1ush. aftet 1910. mos-t of tbo6c. white men left the Yukon and the populalion w;tj (WCrwhfeminsly Indian: Is t hat torrecc?

Mr. £.Smith: Th.:lt is right.

Mr. Allman4: And tb~ ne.tt great rush or JIOn· lndians into the Yul:on was with the building of 1he Ala.sh Highway: oo thlt riaht'!

Mr. E. SmJik That is rlghL

I TrQductlonj

ttdmlt, que le g.ouvcrnernent fM~r.11 a le pouvoir d'adoiltcr une loi comme oclle qui ICj:ilimise le £()\1\'ernemcnt du Yul:on. J'11i du mal A oomprendre que vou~ cons.id~.riez le. proccssuJ del re~endkati(lflt lerritorialet (e1 je. suis heurCuk d~ l"On~ICJ' que lcs PfOJ1Cs qu'i.l fait ont pc:ui-Cu c quelquc chose il ''Oit 8\'ec certains d'entre DOus. du moins nous l'espCron:s) oortutlt dis· tin<:t ~t ~transer i I:!. que:ttion de la l~gitirtr it~· du gouverr.ement du Yukon.

M. Jo~ 11 rest. lA eoprisidcnt (sb!1teur H11ys): Merci bclruooup. mon$ieur

Epp. M. Allmand.

M. AIJmand: Monsieur le prkidtnt, messieurs. jusqu'S qudk ~poque Id! l ndiens du Yukon peuvent ·ilt retr.~.ecr leur hisiQirc e.u Territoire du Yukon'!

M. AUeo: !.':lie rem~>nte a (iO,OOO lln$ a:n ;1rrierc seb les dctnicrs renseignements,

M. Allm.lwd: J c dtanande po.rdon'! M. Alleo: A 60,000 ans en >~rriCrc. M. AJlmand~ Vous avtl vraimcnt fait des rocberdtes qui

dCmQntrent qu'clle remontt d a ull.1l Join? M. Alle•: Noos n·avons pe.s fa it de rcchcrcbu. 11 y a des

<1uvrn.g.et qui montrent que notre histoire rcmonte i oene­Cpoque.

M. AUmand: Tr~ bic-.n. Al'81lt la ru6e ''tr.sl'or de 1898, qucl Ctait le pourcentage. des non·lndi,cns dans la population du Yukon? Jc ne vous dem;uwle ~"'-'de chi(frd pril'is.. mais jc.se.ilS que ~'Ous ave1. obtenu eettains t'(llstignem~u lorsque vous a veT. effeetuC des t ec-herc-hes en vue de pr6parcr vos rt\-endka.· tiOit$. QueJ Ct;li t le pourl-c.nt.agi: des norr·lndlens 01vant la ruCe vcrs l'or de 1898?

M . [.lijah Smith ('1ce· prfsidenl, CC:mlldl de' lnditn~ du Yukon): Eh bien, je n'Ctais pas encore n·c il I'Cpoque ,,,

U~tt voix: Ocm;1nde~; Z S tanley Knowles . M. £. S mh• : Je me rappelle «pc.ndant du (em~ o~ it )'

avail trh peu de BlanC~~ au Yukon. Je pourrail prt$Qt~C· tous les oommer parce qu'ils n'Ct.;ient pq.s plulS de 12 ou 15 i I'Cpoque ()i'l j'CLals enram et oU je jouais au hookey au Yukon.

M . Allnun4: C'Ct.t~ it il quelli: ~pooue, €Jijah'

M. 1~. S mith: En 1921. M . All .. u d: 0';1prC$ ~que je. sa is d~ l'hist(lire, pend:uu la

~riode de Is tu~c. ~-ers l'ot, soit de 1898 8 I 90S, i peu prC:s 100,000 Ctr.&nger1, tl La pfupstt des Blancs, soot venus au Yukoo: avant cene epoque, lcs non·lndien$ reprhemaient un trC:II:aible pouroernage de la population. EMuitc. ap~s l11 ruCe )'Ct$ l'or, soil vcr$ 1910, la plupa.rt de ees 81ancs ont quittl: le Yukoo et la population eu rede)'enue indienne dans une 1rC$ fOtle proportH.>n.

M. E. Sedth; C'est exac.:t. M. All .. a•d: L'a01ux important de. non·lndiens qui a sui\'i

au Yukon s'est prod1.1it IOI'$ de la. oon;slrt~ction de la route~ I'Alatb. C'esl euct?

M. E. Smith: Oui.

18:14

I Tt'¥1) Mr, An•• .. : RIJbt DOW, Jnd SMitor lude:t •·•• @.Cttin&

""~ lhd., if I • nckNiaod corrttd y, naltl ,.,_ oltbolc •ho are

pc:r~n.~.ncnt rcikfentt of tbc Yul:.<M. t}Qc •ho have stayed mote than three )'tlltS. )Oil so.y th;at )'0\1 are over $0 per cc:nt or the popultulon:'

M r. £. S111hh: Wcll, ir you take out P;u-o. Keno I !ill, atld Cllntoo Creel 11 ~QBCo aDd tbc I(M:rnment employees. )W

Ofll)' ba-'«' leu tha• 200 .. u c mat • ., tt.ue.

~'lr. Alt.a.W~ Wdt, I do .at t~ r( rt woald be f•tr CO taU OIU Faro and the 1~rnment employcca. but my point i& tbt

or those who stu~cd more than three )ears. IJUc58 ,rom .. hat

SCIIIItQr Luclcr hM tnr_id, 4.S pet ~nt (I( the popul1tton it ttlncrant. the"'-ro.rc. that would mllkt tbe Indian popullltlon the

m•,ority popul&dtlln or those who arc really permaMrd

Mr. E. s.itlrr: Wdl. I b:uct tdl )'Oil t!Ite st.atancntthat Mr.

Panon stattd lkrc was tb3t thetc if a &Ujoril) ot ..-llites.

Sl.lte.. there is • mz:ajority of whit• btU they a~ allo co11ntina tbc n(lc'lttatut pooplc -..·hiclt we are <:l••mina. too, boellullc they I\.11\'C the Indian llnt'CJtors and thlltle t>eoplc arc e.ntllltd to our land cl:aims,.so thcttfore tbe)' are Vl.lko~rs.

\fr. Allai.C 8u-t •ha! I want CO .:tt. )'OU f'*'-i .. •P 011 lbae quatiloM, • •mber (lAC. lita: ~bey scamna to c&o.;t; • fcd~n.J member ur Patliamcnt in tiM Yulc:OCI tetTitot)' bow

m.;~ny or tholic rnembcrl ha~t: bf!en l ndi.an~'!

M r.£. S1111tM No..e.

M r. Al'-~~t4: Of tbe presctlt l~i$lat1V't a.sie:mbly In tbe Y•kOIL I tbittk it IS IS ~nm~;.bm . ..

Mr. Alltc SUtceo

Mr. AU~~~aa4: Shtcfl'l, CJtCUjC me, f-low m:rny l!t: lndiem'!

Mr. Alltn: Two. Mr. All111altd: T•-o out or J6. Amona •·hat ml,tht be called

SC8ior c:ml sava•u. Id u ay alltatote that •--ork 1n tltc fticc

•• Y•tort """"""meat b.ikttf!J . .._, rnaay •-outd be: lndioull?

1\fr. E. Sl!llh•: Well, I ba.~e nevc.r chcded on them but ir the-re 'Kii$ tM in the Yukon I would be cuaaerating.

Mr. Allra11 1M1: Mr. Alkn, do )'(IU t hink thllt the senior civil k'n'AJib • • •

Mr. AJkc Wcl, h k ttK. I t hiak the ~ are -uy

tNII u1 tuii\S ol thc fod~an people, 1laoy. I do liOltlli•t there il anyone ~lithe .cnior kw:L

Mr. Allman4: To be a bit more tpocinc, and JOmc: people

have a5ked you quc:,tions about thl•. nbout bow ytru • 'Ould like to •cc u& amtnd the QOJIStitution•l rtiOiudon &O that 11 would

pt'(Mtct lodiaa rta.J!u and aboriaJnal f'i&hll. iJ I unckn.t.and corrutly you wo.rW like to ~ •lldudcd in lbc»c propoq._lt • ,..ot((1ioQ ror aboriainal ritht., )'01,1 aawcred tUt •011rlitt.

Wllatabout 11 ~cetiOflthat would protect treaty rlahtt In thOk arciU g~rncd by t ratic:~'!

Mr. AIJm: Wdl, I think D:a~·!d Joe't responJe earlier wa1 "'~ w:e tbc QCW 1«d 011 bei~t~ ~deled to the rtsohrtioa •hktl WCM~id

hlk iM.o ~·• •~I rittMt. •nd these rictlu ..,kl

(TrmuJ"ti~l

M. Alf•• IJII:: J~ p~:rnie q~K c·~ « l quol le: llf:ruttur L~r

woovb.tl ta vtftir 10.1 i '"""' Acu:dlemcaL Ji je compmlds !!.en, vous atr:mn que t'OII-) ~tez,... de 50 p. 100 de Ll populahon permaMnte du Yukon, de cca .. qui rdtetlt piu• de

uoi~ ant'! M. ~. S•1lth.: ell bit:n, Jl YOOS CllC:hl~l. faro.. Kcnc> 1-lill ,

C11nton Creel :tint! que ICIJ emplo_)'& d\1 aou~rncment, YOI.l.

aYU moln. de 2-00 8'-acs lA·bu. M . AU..-: Je M a it pu sil COII'f'fCIIII cf'cu .. re f•ro tt k:a

etnptO)'b d• pvct.-ctr"Cnt. Jc m'ian&UM tokmc:•t i "'~.­

qui rc~tent pit~~$ de trois V.Bf. O'aprft c~ qu'• d1t le so!nate11r

Lucicr ~ 4$ p. I 00 de la population est ilin~mntc:, ce qui (ail qut lt:t lndk:n1 doivcnt ~ere en m~urh~ chu Qcux qui r~tcnt de

fa90t1 pc.N!'Ia~te.

M. L S.hk k ..,., rappdle q•e M. PurtOII a dk.brf id qtte ks IRuc:s formaicrtt a.. .-joritt clo a. populatioft. C'cac •n• que let Blana 110r11 e:n ,..jQritE-. ml.ls ill s'attrfbuc.nt la lndiCJII n<in·illScriu: que tiOUl rklamont. oomme de~ n6trc:• pllrCe ~ue leufl a. nc~HCI tont indtens et qu'll• ~~ po.rtie i no• revcndteatlons tetTitort.aiCI. Its &Onl de _.,.. h~bitanu du Yut o,.,

M . AUea.t: Cda poM. it wr.drais awolr. d'abotd, combicfa

il 'I• 4\1 ck ciCpat& 1edteru ckJ*is qu"• dfprtC d• tetritoirc

du Yu'\Ofl est tl• IU PJrkm.cnt redtnl?

1\-1. & S millil: Aucun.

1\1, Alb ... .-4: A I'A.wnbt& l~ali"t IC'IIIt.lk au Yul:on,jCI

pmse qu'dk compee quhuc deput& . ..

M. Alltc Seitt. M. A0 11Uur4: Jr: 9011' demilnde pttdon. td.tt .. Combic." '1

ll·t ·il d 'fndiens'!

M, Allt n: l)eux. M. Allln ncb Deu• sur un total de li(_lzc. Che1 lu luut-t

(oMdCM.Wrcs. mai.nlc.Nfll. diet cc.• qui travaiUes~ t ch111 ce

rnapiRq~ae MU¥d immr.bk et. ~rMMtftt d• Y•':M. <:omtlkn 1 a·•·il cfllld.ias1

M. t. Stnit•: Jc n'ai j•mab ..enrrl, m11.ls IC sera.is wrprlt '111'11 y a:.n uit d ix. dans tout le Yt~kon .

M. Allma.IMI: Moniltur Alien, vaus <:ro)'ct que: les haull fOI'CikH!Mitu: , , •

M. Allta: C'est wni n r • 1N:s peu d'llllllk"" •• _, y c:a • · A•

ruvn11 t.upf:rieur,)f!'Cftlll q•i ltJOilt Ullakmmt ablenu..

M. Allma.-: J'aborde un point be!uoot~p plus pdcis. V out av~ d6jll r~ndu /1 dell qu~tions i1 ce~ t\ljet. Jc voud~ls uvolr de quclle f&90fl \'001 YOUiet qu.e DOOI mocJinons la rtsohiiiOn constitut5on.ncUe de fa(Otl i ce qu'r:Uc JlrOI~I-C ..,. droitt e.n ... , q.,·,~ et wtoc*t.ofta. Si jc C!Omprads bien. .._. SOIIhalter q•'une protcedot1 dts droib 6n a•toebtoGC$ toit indu•c dan• cette pf0901itiooo. ~ pcMn·vow de d:spositiom qui J,lrllntlraicnt 'I'QI droiiJ en ver111 del lraite.t dant la domalne.J vl~s par lcs trllltla;!

M, A.llrn: Je penit que: Otvid Joe a ~~IM:I 11 i la quution pill t6t. ,.._OU:S soublitcriotlt YOit urt nou~l artk:le dant ..

r&olutiorl 11•i taitr: ckt dto~-ts de a•toth~ tt cu drofu.

3·12·1980 Colt$titution du Canada IlL 25

(Tt'XIt'j include treaty, abotiginnl rights, any agroernents t.h.at :!Ire to be negotio.tc.d with the government Q( Ca.nada in the fuu.1re would aU fall unde.r that umbrella.

Mr. All.ma.nd: What about a S«tion that would sa3 righl.s confiuned by any other aboriginal sc-nlc-,nent?

Mr. AUe• : i h:u is true .. M r. Alhu n4: What is )'OUt answer 10 th.at? Mr. Joc:: The riJhlS to be included from any othe-r .aborigi·

na.l u utcment? Mr. Allnl:and: Yes. rights that arc coufi rn1ed by an y other

olxlt'iginlllseU iemc.rll'~

Mr. Joe: I think )'(lU ;e re probAbly u$ing words (rom your own privMe member$ bill ottltis point in time?

Mr. Allmaltd: R.iaht. I am. Mr. JOt!: ;\nd tl'mt muy <:ert11infy be t>r011d enough. Mr. 1\t. Smhlt: May I add that ho..-·evet we would still be

subject to seeclon on-e of the ~olution whic-h ~tll:td t!ei!.l il is subject to ~uch reu.~on.1We limilllllll ;tre gener.111)' accepted in a free a.nd demooratic society. In other words. while yow do put that in it would still h:we thll t nujor limitation of t he. first llttti<ln of the resolution. So it WQuld still leave it wide open for Parliame.nt to go ahead and still 0\'CtrMk any of the t i@hts "''C would enjoy.

Mr. Allnaa.nd: Well, I undenuand lbal )~ Me recommend• inJ that section one be ti$_hte..ed up.

Mr. M. Smith: Ca:rt;einly. Mr. Allmand: That i3 all, Mr. Chairma.n. TM Joint Chalrmaa {SeaatOir Hay•): Thank you ''ety tnuch.

Mr. Allmund. Mr. fbwkcs. followed by Mr. Ron lrwin.

Mr. Hawkell: Tlunl: you, Mr. Chairman, and tbtlnk you (or wminJ today.

On page. S of your britf you point out the Pri1ne Minister's fetter to the lnd i.:~ n BrotbuhOQCI on October )()in whkh h~­claims that subsequent to pauiat.ion it v.·iJI be easier for native ~c-ople, a.bor181na1 ,:e<~pl.e to entrtnch their rights in the consti· tution, ;md )'00 to.ke specific i5:SUC: with lb11t ot3SertM.>n on the Prime Mininc-r's part. Last night t.he Nath•e Cou.ncil or Ca~1ad:!. t<1ld ut th~t t hey felt the Prime Ministe, wu being di5honest in making that $ta tement on <ktober JO, 01od t hey said that in liSht of the fact t~t they bad a brief prepared by the fcderul·provinci~l rebttioru orfioe, by Mich;u:l Kirby, I think. is the reputed aut.hor of it, in whi(.}l the odvi~e from olfleiab indicat~ clearly that in fact it wf>uld be. mote difficult to entrench native rishts subsequent to patrialion rat hoer t ha n befOte.

I anume thllt you pill tbat Qllm.ple into )'QUr brid 11s a n e..:t~mple or tbc- fac-t that o~cr time pco.plc-. have said many thin&s to )'Qll, io ktters or ''erbnlly, aod t h:st in fa1:1 th~e thing.s. frequently do not work out to be rea1 a nd that )-oor conce.rn about the oo.nstitution of Ct~nada is that you not be left with a series of promi~' but th11 t ir this constitutio111, if it i$ to be rc-vi ~ed , then there be . .selS of words inside-. t.he oomcitution that give you .some lllllhl$ in court , •ome pro4e<:don from one of the institutions of gU\•ernment, and that is reaJiy what you a re

lTrmluC'tio,) ineluraient fes droits des llllt~Xhtones . le> dro1ts en ''Crtu d~~ lrll.ite5 ~ les droiM oon~entis ;u,a termct> de toute ent~nte nCgociCc- a l'a,•c-nir 1n'« le gotwerncment du Canada.

M. AIJmsnd: Qu~ diric::x·vous d\m anide qui parkmit de$ droits oonfirm~s pur toutc autre e-ntente awe Jes lluwc-htoncs?

M. All<'n: Oui. M. All.nta.nd: Qu 'en penscz.vous'! M. Joo: D'i.nclure lcs droitr. confirm~ por tout autre ent«~te

a\·ec l o!S ti UIOCh!OI'ICS~

M . Alhtuwd: Oui. le; droits ainsi ooofitmes.

1\t. Joe: Je penst que \ X>U$ reprenct ici tcs termcs de -rot re propre prqj~ de loi d'initiative pri)ie. n'e.st•t:e p11s?

M. All mud: Oui. M. JQe: C'ett p~:ut•Ctrc suffiilllmme 111 1arg~ . M . M , Smhb: Jc nppelle que ce:s d roitll !lettli«<t toujouN

as:.1ujcttis ~ l'anicle pcrtnier de Ill resolution qui patle de$ rCsc:rve$ nonn:llement aocept&:s dt11U un~ soci(:te libu t t d6lllotratique de rCgime perlcmentaire. Ces rCsen-eo; t!C$ lmportantes pr~vues i l'arti•cle premier oontinueraient done de $'11ppll.quer. Le P11rlemen! :llll1i! tOUI le loisir de M U!! enl~~~r

n•impone quel droQt,

M . Allmud: Vous rtoonlm.andc-z que. l'anide p1C11'1ier soit refait.

M. M. Snlltb: Ccrtainement. M. Allm•nd: C'c:st tout, mon~ieur le-pr&tdent . U coprfsldtnt (Muttur HIIJ6): Metci bco.ucoup. monsieur

Allmand. C'e\t ~ M. Hawkc-s. suivi de M. Ron lrwin. Mon­,sjeur H11.wkes.

1\1, Hawkcs: Me~i. monsieur le prC~tident. mer<:i. messie\IN. d 'C-trc: ici ••ujourd'hui.

A Ja page ) de votrc: m(moire, '1'0\1$ pllrlu. de la lemc <.In !)ltmier mlnistre ! la Fraternitt des lndiens en date du JO OCIOI.>rt daru I<J(jU C:I!t il pfiltnd qu' il S.Crail pi llS faCile pOur Jet lndiens t ( Jes Autocbtones de f01ire indurc leur$ droi t"' d~~;ns 111 Canttitution ap~ le rap:t tricJllC:.flt. Vous eontestez cc:ne affir· mation du Prc:mi<:r ministrc. !oiler, les repr~stnt;lnl$ da: Con~c il n.ation;,d des autochtonc:s du Cunud-11 nous on! dit ne pas eroirc en Ill bonn.e foi du Pre1nic-t mini;trc-. lonqu'il a fait eette d6claration le 30 octobre pui.squ'il :avail dcmandi a.:n m<moir~ du Bureau des relations fCdCrale.s·provinci.;•les. dont Mich;1d Kirby Ctoait cen,e ~trt l'autcur. si jc me souvic.ns bien, c:! que !'avis des ht~uts fonetionnaire.s chns <:e mC~re Cu.it qu'il $erflit plus diflicilc de faitc inclurc: les droiu des lndie(IS aprCs le rapotriemcnt qu'ovnnt.

Je suppose que. ~'OUS doonel ec-t c-.xcmple c.l<1n ~ Y()(re m~mqire pour ilhtstrcr le f<tit que d<1nS !~ 1~sst ''Ou:> a~e-t te~ P:uslc-urs assurances pu lettre t -1 de ''h'C voix, 1;;1n:s qu'il y ;tit d .. -s suit..-s k plus sot:vent, et (jut \•Ous ne vouki'. p:.t.s res1er lc-s mains vides enoorc- une fQU.. Si la constitution e:i!l rb·is&. vous \'OU!e2 que son libdU 10001'1ntlissc ''00 droil~ dC'I'IInt le::; tril>umaux, vOU$ ac:corde Ju prolection d'2u f'l)oif'IS 11ne des iMthutions du CQU· ~rne11'1ML C'eu c:c qui ''OI.I:S inquiCte, lt: llbeUi: prieis de la ~onst i l u tion.

IS ! 26

ITf-"''1 ClOnoOemcd •bout, dw ~iC'S of tk wotds that wtllpi•IO lk OONUII&IIo..

Am I correct l.n that aa.-u.mptioo1

Mr. Allf"ltl Th:u lt uw.~. Mr. 1-hwku : Wt1e.n you rtspondcd to Sei'IUIOf L~ot~:toer c:mer,

h.: lljktd )'00 ir )'00 WC~ in raV()Ur M a Ch:l.rlcr or Ri&hlt. I would like •~ bt a lluk n1«e spccifie nnd j u61 s,et h \In the record, Are you in favour o( t his Charter of Rlthtt 11 h Jlts bc(Ofc 1111

Mr. Alltfl: No,

Mr. lt•"·kct: Pan of why you bll'e ald you .,. fiOl in ravour el h. •• t rtad )'<*t br:id'. it tbat )'011 bchevc.. and I d1111.k pnlllaptthc pbrue tUt fN&bt ~tnoe ~belt" • pqc 6. yo. ... .-.: • ••mbct ol ,.IUC$ tJ.t )1CIC ay

Elllller the: Ca..nu q/ Ri&h-IS crates MW rdstiolldupt or h COfllfitn» old i•jlali«s.

All the Cbiat'f-er NU would you Oo:lCIC'hldc lliU lt tlo:Mcall:r woukl cc11snrm old Jnj•tticea?

Mr. AUt•: 'rhat 1$ true. Mr. J-t.wli.11: Thnt u true. Mr. Alle11: V~.

M r. Jhwli.ttl C<i"ld you just lde.ntH'y (or ut the m•jor i,julllm. or one or tw.'O major injus1i01:1 t hat )'\'lu would like to bjJhlitht. thllt )W thi1tk woold be 0011firmod by thit Ch1r1er!

Mr. Jw: Well. I t hink, flrs1 cl all, • ·ith relpect 10 tomcthtltJ u PmpiCI u membersllip. •bo decide$ •·bo ""11 be 1 troembc:r ol )'OUr lncUu p>CttiiOK'IU .. of yoar balld. Ptactttty 1h.a1 dcdWo. h. k(l •P to CICtU!• .M'C'tions olllle tadia• AC'I k.df. wflidt JpC&\ to 11. aacl qrreally tbt remcwal f1l toe:.~ ~ makil'llo of ckad.,. • ._, k to be a Gled~ of ,o.r 11 .. c1 a....c.d ce chllet vuy prcclk. objtcliff cri1ctb., or n well COMfdc,... auon of s.u\_Jtetivc critcri• wilhiD tbe locale. ud i( one wen to no.,.. impoH In thlt ('(NiftitiUion Scctioo I S, which .tpab to e<Jualily in the commwn•ty, ctttainly in tbc Indian comm•flity m Yul«)n, you IHC im!X*ina a $)'1tcm cl tqunlit)' in tl\llt commumty whlc:h nia in the face of the dnire ul lndlnn people tO decide who Is <Mie of them.

Mr. Ha•·kttl No•·, one point whk·h I dl) ~WC think bnt been propc~ly cn1p~tl..ted , it ts in your brief, and I think h tuu b~en in «M her brief• b11t I havll!l not beard a series or quutiont on it, but t think it lt imporunt to Identify that il'l your btler you ny to uJ thll the (cdual p'Cinmcnt haJ the suritd!Qion 10 • ·ork with the IMi .. ptoOflle aiMS to cbatlac 1hc OOI')Rlnnlon ol Caudt • ld10111 tlw ~I'T'CIX'le ot uy Cltbu ,ovuamctu in Caatd:l. that &I not 011'r flu the ri&)tl tNt I tllllftt ,_ 10 OK sacp rsnMr aod lndiatt: 1t probtbiJ has tlltc rnpan"lllllrty, t.Mt IlK t'Oflteillltlon of Canada • i:tlw:lut p.lttUdoe <Oit.id be amellllkd by Hut one level or pcnunc:nt if it w-u •l.n«rc abou1 thOM ne• •tnn~:~m.~IIIU.. a. bout gctti"' rid of the p.t..lt In justlocl?

Mr, Mk•: Ttlut is true.

M r. Hn"kqt Voo say that is true and that b ~our pertpco­th-c, Can you tell Ul why you believe tbut uf'te-r !lll t hcw~ ~cart. tbc fcderalllO\''Crnment has not mO\•cd to make tltOftC tlnd.s o(

Ai--je bicn inkrprlt' ¥oti'C mfmo.re?

M . A lkfl: OuL

l·ll·i980

M. Hawktt: Le J.!n.atcllr Lucler YWI n dc1na,d~ plu.s tOt .si vws Ct iu en ra~eur d'"n.: Clt:arh~ des droit&. Jc voudrais que voos \'OUS e~piK~ui.n d:a~untnte- A tt 11.1jtl, si vous le vot~lez. bie, •. t!tcs-vou.s 1!11 tuv.:ur de CCUCI ChiLfte dl!l!l droits que nou.s avon1 de,·anl nous?

M. AUtn: Non,

M. 1-ta'ltbs: La raison pour t.qut.lle ~~ n'ttcs pu e-n fa,'tt.ar de ceuc Cbvte est d011Me e• ptrlic i la pa.gc 6 ck l'Oti'C

mCmol re. si je oomprcftdt btcn. e.t,. 81.'lrtt ~ 1'0US d1tH -~ bico b Cbat1c 4a ctro.u NW.1 de. oo.-..:a-... rapports ou biec etle con.rwt~~e de ric:i!Sd i•Jidi.CCS.

Yous YO)'C:t cctt.c c.~i COin.llle (OAiirmanl de Yiriltcs injV$1ie:u SlltiOUt'!

M. Alk11: C' Cllt eda.

i\1. H.•wli.ts; C'dt ccla.

M. Alk11: 0\li. M. Ha..'kes: Pom<ez·vOu$ nous donn~r un ou dwx ~emplei

de vici ltes injustices qui IICI'IIknt confinnhs, seton IIOUS. par ccucChanc?

M . .Joe: 11 )' • d'abotd la quc,tlon du mtll'lbres du aouvetDC• mcnt i ndicn t1 de la bu6c lftdic.n.ne et de qui Ctl d&idc. Actuellem~t. la dkisioo c:.t dledc par c:ertaios articles de b Lai 1111$ kt 1~ L.onqs"11•'•J11 th dtl~ q-.i doiL fairc: pattie de 11 bandc. d HI tc•• CQDPI.C- ,._,. emai• oombrc. de. cthl«:s pr6:is ea obicct•fi. ,.... lpkmmt ck cuui111 crithcs aubJecbfs et de p:wtfc ~~~ loak. Si l'attick 15 de Q. cocutitutioa qci p3rk de droiu fpwA dam la comm-u:nautl ksr Ht i.mp.m:, ICl lndie:111 du Yukon ¥Crf1.iellt li un tfRC:me: qcl va a. l'etlooaue de kurs dbirt et dt \eurt tl"'ditions. lb Yeulcnt dttcnniocr c:ux•mtmcs qui a.t det kurs.

M. Ha"'·ku : J 'aborde nl&intc:Ji il.nt wn point qui 1t'a pu f.llffi$8.mmtnt re-tcn~o~ l'aucntkln et qu.i se lf'O'Il'e dans vat~ mCrnoirc. 11 a. ~e JOVIC\.C d1u11 d'•t.~ttca •n~mohu mais n·a pas s.u.sci1C: de quesllons. Vou11 ditct qwc k auuvunemetlt I'Ed&al a le 1'0'1..-oif de: c::onliuher '- Jndl~a et 6c modirter la coastitu;• t11011 du Canada Sl.l'li raecord 6c q11t.lque .. trt pvc:rnc:ment au pi)'S. Vocs ditc:s quo ftiOfl toe~~kmcol 11 m a k droit. tiU.il Ck'Ote q• "ii ea a k de<roir. S:.. vo.a. 6oK. la Q)O$Cit"t.ioa tu Cauda. m&rlc ..,. npttnfc~ pt~tl lUe IDOdift& pat ce seul ordre de pa«mnwM s"il n1 'fftlmtnl s.~noob'c et :l'il 1ica1 i ndf'CUC'r f.es injvnicn ~et.

M. AUto= C""' vrw.i. M. tbwku: C"cst votrc. polt11 de vue. Pl;luvcz•1'0tiS I\IOUS dire

comment lf se foi t q~o~e vouf cro~;;rt cell apr~ toutc:-3 ~es a nn&s d'imn:1 ion du t;OUVCJ'ItCrMMI (~d~tlll QUI n'a t icn r11it pollf

3· 12· 1980 CoOnttituti<ln du ~muf.a 11 :27

(Tt>.Wt>) con,lihltional d vnges to entrench the kiDds o( thinsJ. tbnt would provide you with prou:etjon?

Mr. Jot: Well, we tend to leam from experience. and ~~o·e

look at <lur bmthtr$ IQ t he $OU1h ••he.> h;1ve m;ede specific tJreemc:nl$ with the gO'-ernment in tbc past, and oone of th~ agreements. to my koowledge, h3\'e. been ll\•ed up to f'ully. The t~pi ril or these llj rec:.mentS hq,ve been 8\'0idc:d. We look lit thllt.

A5 .,..ell, 'A't look ll! $Omc thing1 pc:.rhapt as sma.ll a$ an q,reement with res-pect to a big company li.ke Cyprw Anvil corning up to the Yukon under the p~te-xt, and ""'ilh the­suppor1 or the rederlll 811\'ernment, to gi\"C employment to native people. an agreement that apptoJdn\atcfy 2S pet' cent of tbe wort fOfce be constituted or native people t<l wo.-3:: In this mine, and to date tbnt asrc:emem has no1 been forced upon w made biDdinc upon that oompany to do it, and there is just a number or thingt like tbll t t hat l\11\'t-hllppe:ned.

We. just do not bcfle\·e. the Y<'()t'd of the. GO\•erruneru of Canada. If we come to an IIJI,roc:ment, Y.'e 'A'OUid likCJ IQ t;eke O\H cbanocs gi'fen some kiDd of a resuictivc-1 am anticipat· ing a very restricth•e. amending f<lrm ula in tlte fuuJre--.-"e would like to take QUF chances and incorJX)f'.,tc wh:atC'\·er •1rc:ements "''t ~~ with tbe G01o·ernment of Canada.

We jU.$1 canoot trust the word of the Government of CaAad3. Word it ooe thing and deed ts something else,. and so far wc-lun-e not seen the-deed.

Tbe Jni•l Ctaa.innu (Sc.n.~tor lllyll): Thil-nk )'()tl, Mr. Hnwtct~. Your time ts up.

Senator l.ilcier: Mr. Cbairmu? The Joi•t Ol•irman (Se11ator HRfl): Ye~.

Se••tl)r Lucier: If I ooufd zet 11 poi.nt of CIJ~ri fic:ttion. Somethin#, that Mr. Hawkes said made it sound lik:e I wu espousing the Charter <>f Rlgbts u it wu wrhttn and that wa.s not my quC$tion. My question related to whether thoc: nutfvc people of Call$da would be b«ter prottttcd by a <:'-arter of righu .. 11()1 nect~arlly tlw: ~XIrding in t hit Charter of R ights. I abo II.Jr« that $0llle of the 'AWdin.e, i.n thi' Charter J.hould be re'A'ritten and will be rewritten. My question deah witb whetb· er they -~Id n(lt be bcu cr protected by a chl'lrter ol'rlgh!S.

1'k Joint Cluir~atu• (Sc.utM H1y1): ilunk )'OU very rnuch. Mr. lrwin,

Mr. Jrwia: M r. Alien, )'OU have iDdicuted thc:.rc ;lre J6 members of the lC«islative assembly :l.nd tbat two ate lndi.ans and there arc l'try few eivll servantll who I!. re. lndl:l.n. Wh.st is tbc breakdO'>\'n bet~'«n pa.rties or the 16 in the lezisbrth-e assembly?

Mr. Joe: ThCt'e src 11 Conser...stlwt, two Liberals. one \•ttc.ant, ooe NDP ancJ the other is inde.pendc:n\.

Mr. Irwi• : Now, on your neJotlatioos dQ you rind the as.sembly of the- 80\'etnment gcnCtaU)' supporti ~-e. indifferen1 or ~ner;e lly opposed to your ;•ims'!

Mr. Alk>rt: Well, we find they arc generally oppo.sed to the aimt of the-Yukon Indian pou~ple.

Mr. lnrin: Wh)·i$ that? Mr. AIJet~: Well, it is difficult to sa)' bul I think it is the

attitude they httve 11$ the Yukon terriiQri.al s,overnrni!l!! in

(1TodudiWt) modifier la oonstitution et i.nclure ces droi ts que vous \'011\friel \'Oir inchue.?

M. Jt>t: Nous apprenons a~ le temps. Nous l'OyortS et qui $'est pA$$C uve.: no.s fteut du tud q ui Onl oonelu d es enttnttt sp(:eifiques avec le gouvernemct~t dlln$ k pa$st et qui ont V\1 oes e:ntentet fouJ&s au.: pled! dans unc ccnaine me1ure .. l,.'esprit de ce~ cntent~ n'a pat tte ru~t6.

N(lut \'<ly()ni Cgle!cment ee qui se p:use a'~c l'e-nten!t piU$ limitte qui lie one compagnie comme CYJ!n.l' Anvil. Me<: l'appul du gotn~rnoement f&lbal, ocue c:ompegnie se p.UCnte uu Yukon 1000$ le prCtexte de don~r de l'entploi aux lndient .. En vertu de \'entente concJue. c:n,•iron l.S p. 100 ck la main· d 'a:u"'rc: de la mine. doit ttre indienne. Or. ju.-squ'A prt:sent. la comJKISnic n'a pas CtC forc~e de respecter ccs eo~Mtltions. Ce n'est qu'un exemplc.

No11s n'a.,.oM plus foi en la parole du aouvcrnement «na· dien. Si nout rCus:si.l$ont1 il en venit :\ un r~slemcnL, nous prCfcirons t i$(luet de po~ner pq.r une p:ool!dure d'amendemcnt tm rcsuictive. je m'auends it ce qu'elle le &Oit, pou.r rairc indure Its entente$ que nous pou.rrions conclure avoc k Canud~.

NQCIS n'n \'0011 plus fQi en la parole du gou\'ttntmcnt c. nil· diet1. Les paroles sont UDe cbose. les ii«c:s une a1.1tre. JU$qu'ii pthtnt, nous n·a,·ons pas vu d'a<:tes.

U eoprb.ldtflt (sbattur Ha)'s): Mer<:i. monsieur Hawkes.. Votrc temps e~t 6coul6.

l.c kuteur IAid~r: Mons.icur le pf'Csident't

Lt w prkMlent (ll~nateur Ha)'S): Oui. Le IIE•attur Ludu: Je \'OIId.rais apportes une prCcisioo, si

vous le perme'ltez. M . Ha.wtu a $Cmb.ll me fairt dire. que j 't tajt d 'ac:cord 8\'« la Cbane des droiu dum~ sn forme actudle. Ce n'Ctail pas rtu question. Ma qu~tion tendait A 'sa\'Oir $i les Jndic:n11 du Ctln21da seraiel'lt mieux protl:gb par une Charte des droits.. pe.s no6cess.aircmenl celle-ci. Je oonriens du fuit que le llbc:IU. de cette Charte doit Ctrc rcfail, Je l'Olllais seulement w'I'Qir si une-Chane dtS drol t.s Cta.i t utile~

' l.t oopr+slcltnt (sinateur H1ys): M cr<:i be.auooup. c·est j

M. lrwin. M. Jtwht: Monsieur Alkn. vous 8\'CZ dit q_u·i.l n) avait que

deux l ndiei\S l ll r sei~e dt!put& ~ l'Assen1bl6e lfgislati~e tt qu'il y avail uts peu de fonctioontai.res indicns. A queb p~~rti11

i!ppurtie.nnentles seitc.deputEs 8 I'Assemblte l~is\ati~?

l\t. Jo": 11 y a onte cQn;servateun~, deux l.ibhaux, un Mmo· crate, 11n ind6pendant et un siege vacant.

M. lrwi.n: Oans ~os ncigociattons, eat-cc que I'AuembiCc leJis.lntiw: W>U$ appuic, WlUS Ignore ou s'oppose a \'OilS de fa~n g~nerale?

M. A.llu : Elle est en general oontre I~ 11$pirntion5 des Jndie1» lfu Yvkon.

M. lrwln: Pourquoi? M. Alk1t: C'est dil'ticlle A dire. L'attitude du 100\'Crnemem

du tcrritoire du Yukon C$( simpJement d '6.vitcf de diS>Cutet• det

I Tf'W) 1mu of 11011 ttUifll down •ad dtalan.a •ith the i'~llotl 1kt1 rclaK to tk plc ud uPDtioaofthc Y11t 011 lndia11 ~

I t!tiRk they b~c avoided 1-..t. thty do 110( $CM~ 10 WUI to sit

duwr1 and rc~nl.t.e the!'(' arc lnd•M ba11ds. lndmlt a~tr"* ments, IOOian (OIIImllnhiC3. There \IIC a-po:i;&l mt!liU that tl-.c: Yukon ln<Ji;~.n fiCOplc have in lc:rnu or ptograms. ttmt thtfc :arc

diffuetll ty(l(l or fundin& tlltlt BIC rcqwm:d to meet the 11ccd.ll of the Yul.on lncfiaa people. T11ey 'ec. to 1\0'0id t he •hole

w.~.

\fr. lr•i.tt: '-ow. u Oetw«n. cbc proorioaal (OII:IIcrqtiYe

P'arty and the nll.tiOtlal Conservative Pa.ny. what it tl'lc rc:b· ht>Mhip? h lt d011c or is it arm'' k!njlth?

Mr. AJktl: I wo11ld 1\01 know I do not know.

M r. J."'l.: Now, on moblbty, )'0111 ~'<e indicated u._, you .. .-c sc:riou ,_.,....-.. Yo. •n opposed to haY~n• tM tnobr11t)' riclm cn.:dlmcd so tltlt ~t!Km Ca.rudla1111 can ao north to W(H'k. t>low about 1~ "'"(fie? How would )'011 fed if. ~oay. S3skatchewun, Albt~ta, Ontllf.O or arty of the pl'()'rinl."ee

111id that you had 10 be :1 resident f01 1wu or thtee years in th1&t JWO'I'inoe or you oould not IIIWk t hc.rof

Mr. Alktl: WdJ, I JUC$$ a lot ol it de-pends on the poltOCa.l

thntioR. I tl11d •• the- Yakon., tht IWftls ud upindoN ol tk Yulrotl lndion peoptc in. termi or makina ded)i<leJ. r thin.k

the Yvton Indian people have lt> play a major role In trtms ol !Iglu now I th!n1t our people, oro11ntf ;~ppro).hi'I:Ud)' 1:10 pt:r

ornt or our people .-re uni:II'IJ'IIoycd. This Uc:k <Jr economi~

dC\·elopmc:n.t in the Yukon Territory, t.he uainina In terf'l'lt ol

Ollt fJC(Ipk iJ 1'Ctf low. So taki.q al thew drtumit.lnca into ICIC'OIIal I tlliat 1.11 ~ M.-e to iuoft 10CDe type of d.lUK of raadcncy n• terms of tltc Yvton Tctt~toty to a~s•n that tlac

Yukon lndi• n poop!~ get some of the bcndiu of employmc.nt., the trnining and ~me ol 1he beneflt1 that oomc from dc'fCiop­•nent or whatC'o'Cr oc~rs in t~ YukOfl.

Mr. lr .. ·ia: All riJbt You ma\:c an cot~~~omi~ arJumc:nt IMit I ._td like: •o dol "'"., tk c.hural ~~~ I b ow UaAt from a rcttlll rrp)n. that by iatnuion of tc:knlaoll. buicdy rrum Southern Canada, a.nd mostly Amcrku, it h.u changtd Jl&nifJCantly th( cullu~ or the North. F~ instan~. 1.-diilns

who arc usu.11lly JICaoeful ~~e to one, e~n th<Ju8h ttll)y ure in o very hos-tile. cn~Jironmc:nt, arc rl&l'lt ll\1 more: and the report I

uw Uf" !here: 11 • direct rc:Litiontllll' to the violence tbcy are MC:~ Oft dw IC~U.0. that il CIOIIII"I in ff'OII'I tk; $outlr;,

llcwl'1 Nitltl llf Ct~-.lt~. StonlJ' M4 H11ult allllt.it 1~ of

thin. Woutd ~011 oarte !hac there u 11 cultural intrus.ion Into the

north from tlu: soutf'l t Whal i.s it dolna to )'(lur own ouhu~'J

Mr. Joe: The IIM•·er to t.h" i• )'d. tbere it a e~o~ll•u l

Impact.. There WOIJW be a dcvutati11J a~ltur•l ampact 1f you •e-re. to lea'T tht MOkht)' davsc u U. ud as I QU'I rceall la -.,., penicipauon bdorc the Ll)'1l: Inquiry, •ltjc.,. wn an

inquiry C$tabli:dl«l to determine 1hc JQCi;al and eCOflomic: lmpuc:ts which YIOOid nccompany I he C:Qitslluction or 11 P•ptl ine

wlth' the c:aptfll cOUJ of approximllitl.)' Jb b.illiM dollars, we

wer~ told tbcrc .. ·ould bt 1pprollm11tdy 2.000 people on a 4&•1y twis d•rif!J the construcdon period that wo.tkl bt COMinl m.to tiN Y•k011

3· 12·1980

( 'framloli011l Ob)CCIIfJ C:t des aspirl!hOIII des lndiCTIS dU: Y"l.on. 11 oc ilembk

pu ~' admrttrc. q~~ll y a des blnda •lllfitMa.. On p~r~C:mC~~U incite-. cki oomm•nnt& indte•tlc:$. 11 M vcut pes d lJ..C"IItcr :tvtt cu~. La ll~ieru de~ Yuk.oe ont bcsoin de

prt~IJtiMIInCS $pCciauX, de iOUf'CC$ de ril'llli\Cei'Mnl Jp(dald (A

gouYCrnc•nenl du Yukon ne 11emble PM vouloil le reconn.1itrc.

M . I rwl.: Quda JOIIt fcs rcfauons CIUte: k ,..m oonserva~ tcur pi'Gv•miaJ tt le pam eonservateu! nauon.al? Sol'lt·il3 rill>

prueM• ou dis.tants?

M. Allrn: .li!il'ignorc.

M. l f"'I-Jc V01n ncx djt que "'OiS uiu 6c Jf'lvt$ r&uvcs

rc.kl~ •• dtoil de bbtt eim&blion. ""-' •"'Wu: ... k •clr cncfabsC; lb.IIS la COMll•ulion poet Mtn qw ks C•u· diem du s.ud aillcn1 lt'l"'lllt.r cltt11s le l*d. Q!K fe""•vous ii e'~toh 1'1nvcrJe? Que dhl-ct•VOill si la SasbteheY~an., I'Aibcna. I'Ontulo ou n'impotto qucllc ;~ utre province dCcn!l..sit qu'il fa.1 y 11\'0it habitt pcnd11nt deux ou ttoif llltil pour)' travailkr?

M. AIIH: Je PMMI q•'il fun UIIN" compte d• COftt«lc

pollbqt~e. Aw Yabla, il r•vl c:ompakf am: fa besciliS C-t b at:pralk!M da loc!kM rct.abYemCRt "" proccs.w$ de dkisiofl Lcs l~lcn~ du Yukon dotvtnt tt~ appciC, 6 jot;!« u.n r6k de

JWCmlor ordre. Attuellomont. nou.s avons un IIHIX dt chllm&JC d'cnvii"'n 80 p. I 00 <:het la n61rcs. 11 n'y 11 Pill de dCvt:kloppe· ment 6cMomiqUt: au Yukurt: t.tt ootJe. lt:J lmllc:ns t(;90ivcnl

tdl pc. de romudOft, Touta ea d~&a~KCS mllltefll c.n

fa~r d'11nedalKSCdc ~Mir k tcmtoired• Yob:wlafi•

q~~:.: kt lnchcas aielll un •cds quc:k:oftque • l'rmploi. i t. rormadon et.ux :aval!llllfl q•i db.:ouleltt du cthelopptmcnt

M. lf"'l'ic Vous donnu des raisotls d'OI'd.re kQIM)fflkf.,., .na.h Je ~IS que ¥'Oils ltWJ parliu da raiaons d'Otdrc Cllh•td. J'ai ... cUM 11111 r6;e:n.t r.pport que l'trineriXfll de ..

tC!Cvtuon.. •uttout d• .wd d" Caaad3 c1 dc:t f!t.au ·Uilis. an u11 impac1 com.MSCrabte Silt lo colturc du notd ~r exemp!e, let

lndi(tll q~o~i &Ont h.1bit1.1cllen\Cnl dct~ scn~ ''" pu.eil'iqu~ entre cux, tmme t ' ib vive.nt dllnlun t l6mcnt hottllc.. dC\•icnnent pllolf

ayuurt. Le r.!.ppGrt ft ablit le lie:n direct t~« la .,jolen« q•l at montr6c i la tetbrdoe e:D provma.ce d• wd. ohni dct CmiM.,_ commc a. SoWo et. hoctcy o.. Stint} ud HtrKL

Oitl-el•vtKit qut la c:ult~o~rc du sud ~Mttc de plus en pfuJ d1ert1 le nord? Qucl e-n c~t l'impac:t $Ut volrc proprc ~ulluro?

M. Jo.: 11 y • trfteti~·mltllt nn imPICI culturd. Et 4.'ct N11J*1JIOII'rrait Ctre devat&ateur ~i l'aniclc sur k droit de 11bte

cimtladoa Cuit JU.iflltn• l.or:,qwe aau a...s ('()I'Jlparw

cknaa la Com_mi:ss:ictl cfc.-quitc L$)st, qui •nrt pocr bet de c!Ctcrmlnc:r l'imP~CJ welo-bnomtque de l:a OJIUUUction d'1111

pipeline d'un eoCI! d'c:M·iron 6 millttuds de dolhu$. nous l'IYOIIf tpt')ril que 2.000 personnea cnvirQn vlencllo.ient ~r jour IIU Yukon pendant la pCriOI.k ck oomtrvction

3-IZ.19SO Ccnstitution du Canad.::J 18: 29

(T.-xte) I C:81\JlOt imagine-end I $.hudder to think wbat • 'OUid be the.

c::ultural im~ct of those transientt ooming into the Yukon. We can appreciate- the sensilivit)' t hat different ~ovlnces

bal't • •lth re$pc~;t to their O'Wn respective ll!lphati<lns, whether or not they want a shifting •'Ork fwec in this coun1ry or oot. But •'e. at Yukon lndi•n pool.lple, do~ feeJ that our eultural ,·atuet i hou.ld be len unprotected -..·hen there i$ An illdu;stri•l OMlauaht through a tran!llent v.·ort. force whieh would come up for a >~try l hort reri<>d of time and ~ke demands on d rc infhutructure up there which we arc not, at thi$ pc)int in time, lOCally sure couJd secure-a nd provide ~~kind of .servi~ that southerners ~enerally de~re.

Mr. lrwi• : This makes more senile to me. I c:an &~nder&tand the cultural onslaught. But it is very

diffi-cull to expialn to S()meone in Alberta, Ontario Ot Ne'fl>'· foundJand, why they cannot work out of tbcir province.

Canadians ac:nerally. I think, v.'()u!d tu;cept the pro-position that '-''e arc desuoying a adture in tbe north. in fa« scveml fragile cultures in the nord1. Perhaps a discrirnlnation d tlu!le­b#sed on that t)'pe of proposition '>''()tlld be ;u;cepUblc to Canadiam at large, and, u..s has been said, you should not COI'Ifusc:-unity with unifomtity.

h is important to all of us. as C:tnadil!ni, th~t your cult\lre J:hoclld 50f'\'i\'e.

But I ba\'t a grdt deal Q( diffi-cully "''ith tlle ab.:~riginal rights.. c:~pedally when they tbrov.· in phrases "aboriginal rights frQm time immemotia1". WJ1at i ~ )'<lUr oon.::cpt ol aboriginal rights?

Mr. Jot: 11 could be put ve:ry simply. We are the original owners or the land .. We own the land, 'fl>'hll t is on tltc: surface:. and in the subsurfaoe.

Wt- h.a''C amassed ourselves into ctrtain sodetal a rrange· men!$: we h3ve governed outlclvcs acoording to our own societal and cul tural values; we have 0111 own languages-all ol these t hin,s are our inherent abori8,Jnal righu.. We-<:~-..·n 11.11 ol this.

Mr. lr•·in: Do )'Ml diiYc:rcnti~te between ownc:T5hip and occupancy? "Owner&hip., is a white. man's term, and I l1ave never heard il in terms of aborlgin:tl rights. I thought • ·e were talkin,g about rights of occ:u.,ncy.

Mr. Joe: Wd l, if we ha'fC oceupicd the b nd and there Is no Ot'lt -else tbctc. then we. own the !.and.

Thue appears to be impo6ed upon U.$ a Bri tish syt;tem of propc-.tt)' rJ:ghU which A)'S that by t ight of discovery the &~rnmcnt of Canada now has so~reign domint.c:m over t h<lk

land$, just by some mag_ic;~.l stroke of tbe pen. Mr. JrwiJ1: Do you s:uggc.u thut matrimonial and criminal

c:onoepl$ be invoh'Cd in aboriginal rigllu?

Mr. Joc: Yes. of oourse. Mr. Jrwln: Thtnk you.

(TtMuttlon) Je ne YCUX pU penJ>Cf i l'impaC:t C:ulturel que pourrai<:nt

a voir IOUttJ w pcrsonne.t de: p:a~~ a u Yukun. Nous pouvoos -comprendre les aspirations propreJ ~ certai•

ncs provinoe.s et leur bhitation race A la po$Slbilitt d 'une main-d'oouvrc:. ehangeante au pa)il. En et qui nous coneernc .. !'IW8 ne ''Otllons ptu ''oir nos valeurs culturelles laiss~ s;u:ni prolection face! la pos.1ibili1~ d'un d.h\•t loppement indll\lricl d~br~ c~ d'un af!lux de t ruv:•illcur.s temp\)Jaircs qui taxe­ndcnt uu maximum notre infrastructure en exig~nt les Y.1vl· oes au.xquels ib sont habitu&.

M. lrwin: Cct niJument a plus de valeur {I mes ycux. Je puis eonte'\'Oit l'clrct dkt~strcux qu'auralt "" tcl de,·clop­

pcment sur vottc-culnHe-. 11 ef!t c:ependant trC.s difficile d 'e;.:pli· <jucr i un d to)-c:n de !'Alberta. de J'Ontario ou de Ture· Ncuv~ pourquoi it ne peul pas travailkr tn•dehors de 111• ptO\·inoe.

De fa~on gCoCrale. je pcnse que les Canadicru !ltr~ ictlt prCLS i acocpter l'hy(lOthhc- voul.tnt q11' il:s ri$(J IICnt de detruire b wlturc du oord, en rCalit6 les nombreucs c.ultutcs fragiiC-J du nord. la maP,it~- des Canadiens !IC:taitlll l)l!'ut•C.uc d 'accord avcc:- une clause: dkcriminatoire fondec 11ur oc:tte hypotbese. Comme I'•• dit <judqu'un, il ne ful pa.s oonfondrc id6e t t uniformit6.

11 est csscnticl pour tous lcs Ca nadiens que \'01re. culture

J'ai quand tnhne. bien du mal A :~ c:ee.pte-r l'ld&: des df<.lil,s des tutoehtones, surtout k.>r$quc lcs ten~ empiQicnt des formul<:s oornme oJes droits des autochtones dcpui:s des tem~ ilntn~ riaux•. Co1nrncnt l'OYC1.·vous lcs drai ts des autoehtt)nc:s?

M. Jot: Tout .s.implemetll oomrne ecci. Nou.! S<lmmes lc.s prtmieu proprie.t.-.ires dc.s terrc:s. TC)\It oe qui se u ou"•e en l>Urface et dans le $OtJ..S.o$OI nous appo.nient,

NoU.$ Jl\'011$ forme oc:r1-iins groupe~ soti<~u,;; nous nous sommcs gouvern~ nous·mt!·mcs sdoo nos proprcs valeurs e11l· turc:llc:s c:t !IOclali-'3; nou.! avons oo1re p10pre- langue. Cc $Ont tU droits en tant qu'autochtones. lis oomprcnncn1 tout cc:la.

M . lr~fn: Fait~·"OUS la difrCren« cnuc la p()SSi:l!ti<>n cl l'occupo.iM>n? La pc:xuessioo est un concept introduil par !"horn me blanc. Jc ne l'ai jamais entcndu d.Ms le contc.ue des droits des autochtones. Je pensais qu'il s'a,g.issail ~cu lc.nent du droit d'()C(;&~per danS (.'t <:ontcx!e.

M. Jue: Si V()ut oeeupc.z le tc:rrit<.Mre et qu'il n' )' 11 per&onnc d'autre, vous en C.tes le propriitaire.

11 semble qu'on tente ck noli.$ imposer la notion bricannique du droit de propri~ct. qui \'Cut que le droit de d&louvc:rtc:-p111 le g:ouvememt'Jlt du C•1 1U1da lui cc.mftre lA SOl•vcrpinclt sur <:C$ tcrritoitcs. ll lui suffil d 'un simple trait de plume.

M. lr'l''in: Vou.s accepter, (JUe Id no>t tbnS dt mari3gt' et de crime so!ent intraduites dans le c:onteuc des droits des tutocbtones'!

M.Joc: Oui. M . lr.,.·in: Merci.

18: JO Cotlstitution or Cal'lada

(Tur) Tht J Dint CllAlttnn (Se•atM H:ays): Tbank )'Otl very m..cb.

M r. lrwin. Mr. N»lrOfl\,

Mr. N)'i:lrOflt: Tln1nlr: )'Oll very mu<: h. Mr. Cbeirntan.

I would kke to wdeomc: Harl}' Alkll and tlte C'*AC'il of

Yuk<ll'l l.t.a.ns here !Odlly. I mlly appruutt )'OUI bnd and

)OUr llnJ\ilo'trs to q-ucuiona.

I would like to say, ll tbc oui.$CI, I hil t I am \'Crpupportive

of )Wr po&hioo. I think tbc: aboriainal 1MIOP!e of our coul'ltry

are qxdal and very dilli!KC. Y()cu people -·ere M:~ m;ny

tboa;andi ol ycan ~ •:r j:'CIOipk. ud thcR tlilcMdd ~ a sp«isl (()fttlltvtiooslanangu<~ttlt for them.

I t hink 11bcirigi l'lll l tteutyrlg.hts should bo enshrined m aut

w~Utitullon. and •-e ti10uld be loolt.in,a for 50mC ~~~o·ay or invol"·

ja, the aboti.Jjnal ~ ln rbe amcftdutg form•la and of

~KCCC~tpfilhif'l& a bit t1t0n ruponsible wJf~~c (or- tht

abori.J;Iflal people of tilt cououy.

I V<lr)' n•ucll upprtti:uc the commenti ,ou bave made. I alfO

approeiatc the questiunlna and tbe t&nswen )'00 JDve 10 Mr.

Warun Allma.ftd about the n.umbtr o( IDdian peoflk in t he

Yd;on. the ••mba ol •~he peopte. aJlld trartMct~t wotkcn.

That inJornu.tioG 1$ 'fft'/ nPo:lbk l« tile pefJIOICt ol tltis

Commiuc.. I v.'O!J id like. to follow 11p oon S4fnC: Olher prQI)It:tl\il that YQ\.1

have indkatl!d tblll you 1.re bavina In the Yukoo •• Indian -YOCII&)' 11 p;gc- J ol )OUr bricJ~Itd I quoc.c:-

1 h<lve to point aut that, recreuably. Mr. Peor10n's state­

men I rtBarding abot'lafnal rlghtll bcur li ttle reJrulomhip to

hill C~rnm~nt'll pall actioos. In fact. Mr. Chairman. the

dilc:replncy bet•'Oell WM1 aftd eked k to Jtal tklt tk Yubo tctriiONI pcmment's ttalemcal unacb ka ol pt'lndplc than or public rdat'ions..

Would )'Oll care 10 elaborate a liulc bit oo what )'0'1 tncan

by th.at! Co.ld )'01.1 J,iYC Id a few examples as to how JOII-r

~ate lrtatrd b7 t.hc Oown:me:al ollk Yd;oa!

Mr. Alk:111: This ean be 11rry ddrly and aimpl) uj)bjncd by

the fact tbt the W\'lrkli\J rdntioJ»hip with tbe Yukon territo­

rial gowrnmenl has bten ~cry poor.

Tbe YoU. tcnit<Jflll J.O'Itftlmtllt ha1 very stron&Jy oppokd

a bad claim M«.ttmm.t.. tk mam by •lllit• the Yu\o.llldian

people- 11~ aucmptin,g to determine- their JoaJS and 1-c:hkve

their a.-pir111lons as III'Cilallthelt involveme-nt in the. futu re.

By way or IUrtbt t ~planation. )'OU have $CCft what the

Yukon ltrritorial ,spvcnunent bu boc• 6olttg to tbe Indian

ptOpk oltllc Yl!t c.. T1lrrt Yd.oe tenitorill J_OWmmellt arc

contieoolllly prOS«ati"' the lnd:t:aft people l« hunti..,_.a

actil'ity wMch rei;& tell to their way of life.

For e-xample, take the cut of Joc Hcl'lry, an 80 year old

lndia.n.: he wu ehstg<td by the Yul:Otl territorial JOIICtftment

for dilddf'PII; a nfk..

Mr. N11u • c Cbarpd by your own punmc.ttt

M r. Allt11: By lhc Yukon territOflal gove:rtltnctu, Th~t

dtmot~s:trata futthe1 1ha1 they s.1ill l1ave noc aoceptod tbe

l1>owi ..... , L• c.,,..b&ck•t (liutt•r llav):: Metri ba.coup II'ICWMlllt

hwin. IMonri~\H Nystrom.

M. Ny~trom: Mer<:i bcAuCI)IJp. mon8icur le praidenL

Jc 50Ubaitc la bienvenut l Harry Alle:n et au CortJdl des

llldJmSdtJ Yu:t011 Jt wou:. mMteie« -~ m&lloitec. deW»

Nponsc:&. Jc. doi$ vw11 dire d'ab<lrd que je vous &JII)utc fermemnu. Je

pc.nfe q ue let autochtones de cc Jlii)'S sont •v6claux « di ~tln<:ta,

Vo. aocitre& 01111 pricldt de plusieu~ m.lllicu d'anMC'I Id

~!Ml d 'IOUJ awz aiNi dtOit Ill 4el dilpadtionl .-pCcUJes clans

la Const!tutiott

J'c&time. que ks droiu de3 :~ utocblonc• pri~l.IS <fans lu

Wilt& doivcnl et re. i nclu~ d 01111 la Cotn tltutlon. Nous dtvr'on~

~JII Itmt:nt uouvtt une rormule pou.r faiN participer lea

autdtoaet au procasus d'a~ot e1 po..r lntt tcconlu

UM cutainc forme de JOUV'CfiiCmcllt ~We.

Je V()US .-uhl rtconnai:Munt de YQIJ riponsu, en pJrticalier •

M. Warrtn Alln\111~. lo111quc VOOll 11\'Ct indl.:;iuC le nombre

d' I IM;Iic:~~J, de Blant~~ et de 1r1vailleurs tempC?uira au Yukon.

C. rcc~u .o.t 'm •tne.- u Comll6.

Je ''Olld rui& rtvcnir ;wee ~ou.s $1H ccrtalns uutm probl~mcs q~o~'4:pt()U\'eflt let 11\Cliens d:u Yukon.

A k pqrc J eH YOtre rn&notrc. YOUS illcl;qva. m:i::

M albturcutci'Mnl. la didlltttion de M. Ptattot'l rdaiiYt·

111ent :uuc droits des lllliOChtunc:s ne 1len1 pu complc dc:s •~cs de~ gGU\'etDemcnl dans le pa.s~~t. L 'kan entre la

,-I'Oks et M:.~ actes t'Q td. fMI!Sic:u.r k pr&id«1t. qu.t le ~~ 4u tcnitolrt du Y.:koa pcvt Ctrt a<'t"'llt de s'iAtCruscr cl.an.ntaac u:r. rdalioM ptbliq..et q•-.u flllt'Stion• de principc..

V out 110uJc.z blen vous expliquer davantaa.e 6 ce sujet 't V out

j)OII'I~ IIOCf: donnu des U t mpla de la flip dol!t le fO\I\'C:IIM!•

••• du Yeloa U.ile k:$ v61rcst

M . Alien:: La mcillcure indicatioR qoe je: ,.n donner ac le

f~h q~;~e 0011 r~flltiOfiS de lnl'lllf 11\'CC le IO'IYCI'tlcnlCnl <fu

tc.rrlt(lire du Yukon .ont ll~ mauwbes.

Le JOVYeTntmCIII du turltoi~ du Yuk.an 1'W rermLmt.nt

OWO'f au rc!IC:atdicatioct ccmt«iak::J. le mo)U cp'awa.iut choui ks l.ndknt du Yukon. po..:r auriedre tcutS objecci(t rt

rhli,c:r lcun asplr-.liom en v~;~c d·un. ncnir mc-illcut.

1:!11 outre, vou• avet pu voir COIYin'ltflt Je JOIWememe:nl du

te:rritoirt <f·u YukOn a a&i avoc kl J!Milena du Yukon. 11 ka

poumlit cowtdfludkmall pour le\ll actl\'itf <le dw;sc, ne

l(tl'lit f qui CS:l CfM:I'Itidk. '"' lhOde de ...

Prenu le cu de Joc Henry, un vieil lndlen ll~ de 80 un•: i1

• ~16 poursuivi pat le gouverntmtl'lt du lcrritolte du Yukon

pour a .Or tJr6 de la arabiM.

M. ~ Cat "''tre propre JOUY'fllltmcat q;•i a fait

ocl.a't M. Allt• : Le: aouvcrnement du territolrc du Yukon. C'et.t

unc autre preuvc qu'il n'a pall voulu accepter loe mode de vie

Constitutioo du Cansda IS : 31

(TtXlt') Indian way o( life. people. ni/1 li\•ing oft t.he land, with the-ir ov.'n life style, 11 dl!ltlnct cuhure 1nd, IS I ba\'t already said. a way of living. The)' have not taktfl tbtse thin~ huo account. Tbcy have not taken u~ Into acoount. ContinuoU$1)' we 11.re. beJng prosecuttd b)' the ~rnmcnt of the Yukon rtcrritory. and we a.re sHonaly opposed at differen t tlm~ • •ben various things arc being proposed.

A furtbct ua.mplc would be that the Yukon t.erritorial putltt)(llt rnBde an arrugemcnt with the Pa••nec TtibaJ Brotherhood. $0 that people could go into the 33me iilnctullry in the Yukon to pursue tbeir tn:ditional cuhures, and to take their )'OUng people b;1ck into tlle arca.s 1hat 1bey ha"'e tradi· tion1lly used and occupied.

There i~ a kuer of uOOcntanding bc: twc:cfl t he Yukon tc.tritorial governmct~t and t.be P..t..-·noe Trib;1l Brotherhood. Wh.u haflf)t'ned ......,, th1t there was a breach by tb~ Yukon territoriul !Q\'ernment, and charges were-laid against rnembers of the Pavmc:e Tribal Brotherh<IOCI for being in tlie pme sanctu:uy. Thi~ goes on conti.nuously, day afler day in the relations between the Yukoa tc:nitorial governm~nt and tbe IDdian people. and demonstrates ve-.ry de:1rly th;ll tllat re.l:t• donsbip 1!1 stlll very poor.

Wbcn we do meet with the lndUn people to discuss our land cla im~ g01b and aspirations as Yvkon Indian people. you •<'iJJ ue people at our assemblies coming in frorn the 12 COmmuni• ties making lUte-me-nUl-and they tllso iQ tO the prcss;--co t1le effect thut the Yukon territorial ~-ernm«<t does not repre­sent Indian people. The$e are the reuon.1 why.

Mr. N)'Strotn: Ate there any problem~ with tmp lines or ttap(ling?

Mr. Joe: The position is that tbc:. tcuitorial 80\'trnm~nt in terms of ltap lines, have not recog.niud our culture. They h;1ve alwa)'S discU$$ed their ordinances and the trap line regulations and nuuers of that sort, but tbc:y do not Lake into aroount the. buic lire style: of Indian peopl(.. Many times, when you look at the regulations.. on the question of redistributing trap• lines in the Yukon territory. )'OU wm find that they sec:tn to be: removing artaJ traditionnlly u"d by f1mi liu and are making the$e-fnm ilics mu~b smaller tha.n they should be.

Mr. Ny•lrom: I wonder if you ,.,-ould elaborate on 'Nby )'OU

arc $0 opposed to a pipeline untif sc•tlemcflt? I suspec• it has a lot to do with your hunting right$, your trapping nnd fi8hin& right!l, 1nd pubap$ some of the laod wbefe the pipeline is soing would be. over t.hMc: very lines In question. C'3n )'(»!

clabor11te why )'OU are ~ opposed to a pipeline: before a settlement? lt would be very useful for us to know?

1\h. Allt•: We :'Ire strongly oppM~ed to a pipeline bee:!u~e i f )'.lu look ill de'\·dopmenl$ in the Yukon in the pMt. oati\•c: pcl()pfc ha~-e had very little in 'o'O!vemcJ'l t or btnefit oon~ing out o( it. As Indian people, "''C hllve vc.r)' littJ.c: in terms of an «onomic base. Lool;ing at all tbc things that are happening in the Yukon, .,..,bat is tbc:. sure!lt mc::H!S by whlcll we c:t~ obtain &Ome f0tn1 of in\•olvernc:nt and an eoonomic ba-Se'! Looa; at the: new progr<~ms for our people: look at the. polilictl psrtjcipa·

I Tradlfnionj indien. le: fai t qu'iJ y ait des geM qui vi,-ent de oc que leur off re la nature:, qui a!ent kur vte propre, leur culture di$tlnctc. Oommc: je l';1i dit, i!s ont un mode de \'ic tQUt i fait i\ part. Le JOU~rncmcnt n'en n•a pas tenu compte. 11 nout lutente de~: poursultoes continuellement. UlrJque nout lui f1i100$ des JlfOo positions, il $ 'OpJ!O$C fermemenl.

Encore un autre e•emple. Le aouvcrnement do teNitoltt· du Yukon a conclu une tnttnte 11\'eC Jc. Pawnee iribal Brotbe­rhc>od, pc:rmettant i ccs ec:ns d'aller daru le sanccuaire de la faune du Yukon pou.r )' viYTc selon leur culture traditlocnelk:. « am~ner lc:urs c:t~ fant!l dan~ let rEgions qu'lls 0111 toujoufl QC(;Upf!~ .

11 edste unt letue d'tntente entre- le souvememeM du territoire. du Yukon et le Pawnce Tribal Brotherhood. Or, le gouvcmemetlt du tc:n ltoire a totnpu J'tntente et dl!eidC.d'in len~

ter des pourJuitcs aux membrc$ du P11wnee Tribal Brothe­rhood po11r avoir occupt le saDCtuairc de la faune. Ce s:enre d'ineidenu se produit tout let jaun enue le &Otl~rnemcn t d.u ten itolre du Yukon et Its Jndlens. 11 illusue. bien ;i quel point h:$ rellltioi\S sont maunlses.

Lotsquc lcs lndicns du Yukon &e rCunisscnt pour discuter de. leurs rtvc:ndications tcrritorialcs t -t de leurs uplrati*ns de far;on stnl!mle, nombreux $0111 ceux des 12 communautt.s qui ne: &e aC.ncnt pas pour dC<:Iarer, parfois il la presse. que le g<IU\-erne•nent du territoire du Yukon ne. ks repr&ente pAil vro1imcnt. En voild de:s ra.isons.

M. N'yttrom: 11 y a det prob!~mc:s ct1 ce qui QW!oc:rne !cs liancs de pii&C<~SC ou le pi.Cgeagc de fil~ gl!nC.n~le?

M . Joe: Pour ce qui est des !ignes de piCg.eage, k gou'"'erne­ment du territ()ire ne reconn~it p.u notre cuhure. IJ disOJte avoc noU;S de .scs d6crea. ou de SC$ rtalemenl.$ s.ur ks lignes de pUgc:age ou sur d'autttl questions. mais il ne tlent pu CQmpte de not.re mode de: vie en tunt qu'lndiens. Si vou. euminez ks rCglements sur la redistribution des $Cntiers de piCgeage sur le tcnltoirt du Yukon. \'OUS voos apcrcevrcz. que bien souvent lis ferment des rCaioo$ ;) dc:3 f1mill-es qui Jes avaient utilis6cs traditionnellement et limitent de: fa~on indue le nombre de n.embrd de oes families .

M. Nyftrolll: Je me demttrtde si '11)U$ ne paurriez pcut-e(te pas c:xpliquc:r dsvantage lcs raisons qui vous pousscnt A WIU~ opposer l lu construction d'un pipe-line avant le liglement & vos revendications. Jc SUP!Xl" que: cbns unc !orae mcsure eiJcs 001 trait! vos droits de c:J!assc:, de pi6geage et de pkllc .. Vous avez. peut·Clre dc:s $Cntier$ sur Id terres que-doit tr;1verw le: pipeline propose. Vo11s l'OUlu nous dire pourq11oi vous Ctes op~l!$ :i la oonttruction d'un pipe· line avant tout r~glement? Votrc: point de vue nou1 $Cn&it tres utile.

M. Alien.:: Nous sommes fem~ment opposes A la co.uuuc· tion d' un pipe-li.ne pill« que d;1n.~ k p:IJ$1! let dhdoppements au Yukon ont ttas mal servi lcs lndicos. En tant qu'lndiens, nou$ lh'On8 actuellc:n)(nt tr~s pc:u de sources de revenus. Compte tenu de la siiUiltion au Yul:on, qud ~t notrc moytn le plt13 sOr de travaillcr et de tirc:t un revenu queloonquc? Vo)'tl les nouve;&Ul JX'O&rammes qul nout sont deSiin~: voyet notrt participation sur le plan politique, voye£ ltt li:trw:turd politi·

11 : ll

IT#Xl l tion: look at tbc polillcal structureJ in terms ol ptotcain.a I!Miian riah1s t.oday, We stronaJy btll«.\'t, •• Indian people:

'"TO&rthn udly, for o.r c:hi1dral tOII"'IIO'"f''O"'. so tht the tlPtJ alld com,pcntatlo. ~ ayu • ltll tlllc (Kwatt~t~~Mt ol Cuada would be there f01 the bcodi' of fut•rc cmuatiool.

Thete types or iuua clearly ind icate why we ~trotl&ly

opprue pipeline dewlor:uncnt,

The land dalms •-c 1«1 u a means of achievina ODCC J-nd (Ot

•ll thot t)'pt of ptniciptdon pn:wnUcd to ua: by ~mman ia tlc put.

We do not tee: tlatc 1,-pe ol partk1:JMtiOa a;Jmins fn:llft pipcHMS or a.ny CKhc:r major de'J'eiopmcn1 t~nttl wr dairm hill._ been uu.ltd.

1\tr. Nystro•: How 1()(11 ha\•e tbe neJQllntionJ being ,oin1

""' Mr. AUe•: For apptOJ.tmatcJy St\<en yeatL

Mr. N')'a:troa: Fot ~ yurs!

Mr. AJ'ks: Ya. TIM Joi11r Clulr• • • (Seutot HaJs): Thank you. Mr.

Nyllrom. You are a liulc «M!r lime.

Mr. Macku ey, followed by Mr. Neil~en,

Mr. ~11cbsey: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I Wlollit to uy at the GUitct , Mr. Allt4. thlt .. itdna here f01r

tk Lut few days HuuY\i to aborfaUtal •cpocatatioa. d~a1" llu bccolrle fairly Mviou:J 10 me tb1 i• 100 many CIOWluics

there bas bH:n. terrible lYrm done to ptOflk who Uvc betn her• many, m~n)' ttloUMnd• or )'~n before tk first lrithma.n urrfvtd in this QOUntry.

I hope when yw 10 b11ck paSt those U,OOO )'tat.s that Mr. Alltnand talked about, thl t, maybe. tbe:re lt found to be Jame tl11k between the ll'ldla111 and the lriJh; maybe lllo'C came from the ume piece f1l .. ad..

ht I ._.,.Id ltb 10 adYance a prembe • lllk:flll apptan, CO .. ,..

l)c.e.- foraottell: rou rally h;aYe two scu of rlalua, atld .-e: tct'ld to fOt"ICI in our ditca•ions that rights •hlch would be c11lh­rlncd in the charter, which u.nitc aiJ Cunad i&IU.. are ri,Jhtll whk:h w~)d apply to~ OJ ~~~o·ell Do you fljl.rco with that '

Mr. AllfoK Thai if lnK.

Mt. Mad:awr: T\ctt. llttrt is 8.110thct trt vi ris,hu. wilD cu be: dearly idullifkd u special rl!.hU. b)' wirt~te of tbc fact thll you tnrc. the nrtt poopk oo 1hb conluMtlt. and your

rishtl, thtoug.h the «:nturla. hav-e been llast~~n tly ditreg;ardcd. Am I ri&l'lt about thllt1

Mr. Allea: That itttuc.. Mr. "bthk)': So )'OU hal'C DO objottiofl 10 t.he balK ri&hll

tlut dtoWd be e.~shrlaCid for aU Cant,diana, illdodifta )'Oilrtchu?

Mr. Alien; Vrt. Mr. M acb sty: You ate very mud! CuadJ11No. And tbe: (act

that &e>rne of )'OUt members vote ihould not in any w•y joopardiu )'QUr negotlatlons or the poeition thll t you are takinJ that ro- arc a MPlriiiC identity here.

3-U-19f0

( 'froMiation) q~o~e dc:a-tin6es i JH'OI~ttr 1105 droits au~rd'bui. En tant qu'ln· dtcn .. nous ero)'Gfll ftrmemtl'lt que MUI dcvocu 1tstc:t CN«n· We .. jootd"hui pour ~ biee-i1re de ~ tAf111tt de dtm.aia. La dn)ttf ~ tn compcM~bOIW $IU le$qudt _,.. ~ IIOUS

c•tcndn: aYeC le souvuacmcnl d11 Caaada dot>-cnt profit« au' aCnf:rattons ruturc..

C'eJI! la raison pour taqudle now 1\04;1f &ommu viokmmcnt U<ppo.sCs i lla ootltuUCllt)l\ d'un pipe·linc:,

Nru rcve:ndleatlon• ce"ilorialu sont pout ~~ le moycn obte111ir .. partkit»do" que le JOUl"'Cme:n'ICnt 1101111 ~vail pro. mUt dam le pu:si..

Cc n•~ pu la COMU'detiol. d'va ~tiM 01. U IIUIN

dfvcloppcmen' konomiq~te de cc •"'c q11i pc•t nous donncr coue patticipatio111 cntrt·ttmps.

M. Nyscro~n.: 1..~ n~gociatjons dvrcnt dcpu.i1 OOf'llbicn de ltmpsT

M. AJka: fkpult cnviron ttpt ant.

M. l"')atroa: Stpt lftl

M. Altek O.i. l.c c a,..&t4nc (tf••t'-• ' tbys): Mcrd. mcmak•t NJ1uom

Vous a Yet qu.clquc pcu dq,onC YOtre tempt ck pv.role.

C'ct:t i M. Mackuey. tuiri de M. NldMin.

M. Matb lltoy: Mcrci. monJicur le pt~ .. ldcnt.

Jc tiC.JII 1 YOus dire au dCpl.rt. monWc•r Alk.n., qu'tn 6cou· LI.Dl <U dcnien JO'Irl Jet cxpo5Cs del tlltodl~ a m•st apparu c:bimntttc qH. eommc dui bid dct r-)"S. cb toru considtnbfcs Oflt *-' innt,O i des peupb qVJ aniat occup6 le tttritoire pend11nt dCI miiJicn et dct mUlier• d'a.nnics,. et

CICI.II bie n avant que le premier (rlandais dt~t'\jue. au. pa)''1.

J'u jX:re qu'au-dcll de c:ca 15.000 annfi:t dont a po.rl6 M. AIJmand, un llt:t1 1ura C1C !!tabU t:ntte le$ lndiena et k1 lrl.alldai&. No~ ""'*" pout-are de I• rnf:mc IOUthe.

Jt pease q•ll OM"flnl tk ao.Jipef U tipCCt ck k qMSifolt qai • Ct! ocbt~ jatqa"ici: \'Old avn: deu lbiu d~ droiu. No. llYOM t.cndatKe 4 ~bUer clans no& ddcuss:loM que wous jouiuu dtl droits qui uni~Mnt tollj I« Caudknt. c• qui sont OOCINitr6t diiiU lo Charte. Cu droi1.s t'11ppUqucnt A Y(Mif 'saltmcnt, You• c.n ton,·tn~. n'eti.CC ptl'l

M. Alk• : 0\11. M. tatbwy: Vow aYa. ea 01.t.re. ckt dr«u qui pn~wn1

.. ~ Cl00Si!Xr6t C!Ofl•fc des d~u s.pkiau-. • rait que .auJ

IIW:l tt~ Its prcmicfl ocall'l&U de ClC toftlhlcnL Ca droiiU a•

~HS des S~dc& 001 6t6 ian«& de (a90f'l nllj.fiiOI~. V OilS Cl'l

QOOvcnu. n~Mt~i? 1\f. A lkn: En eiYet. M. 1!\fat.kt:Hy: V out n•a,<ez don~; pit d'obj«AJon aux droht

fOI!damtotau: quJ JICIIII prb•~.tt p:!Ur tOUt lcs Cataadic-m, 1 OOI!lpril ..... mlmc:L

M. Allta: Oft.

i\1, 1\tac.kuer: V~t fld Ca..nadic-n ip .. mcnt. Le r.11it que ecrtains de YOI mcmbt" ~en1, cepcndaa1, ne doit pu nulrc de q~o~elque fa90fl quo ec IOit all.ll nCJ.otilllun,..l \'Otr<: potitk>n YOulanl que \'OUS IO)U dlftindS.

)·12·1910

(Tr.rtt') Tllereron.. '"" whok: thiq. a::no dowll to lllc .SCOQnd Kt Gl risJtu, tM aboficiaal nj.hu., if I JN)' •t~e t lut clpresdon. Veu have oollinod them aJnut poelkl lly at pa.JC l, 'AI'C.-e you asy thu nccochufoos Of')Ct finalized. '"rever ..-.m define whether tlw! Yu.lton IMisat- •·ciJ, I am pt~tapflrui.na. a•d I ttltOw 11 iJ

~ei,athue.

But, perhllpa;, I sbould ''k a que:ulon, sueAdn8 the dilcm•n• I ha,~. u one wfu,, b t~r:ry tyrnp&thulc with your view1. ll HCrm to me tMt at pracnt t~ i5 u oplfOn, auw:ly, •hethtt lO nq:oc.iate Of CIOI1tilllle 10 IICJ!Xiate ·~ ckfialdot o( thcle ri&bta, or to ttte the short atl "''bicll some otbc:r I I'O'IP' h•vc: su,ggc:ucd and ttUhtine a \'try broad dcflnlllon or abo•·lai· ul rl&bu, and lhen r•ll the rW ol aboriainal r iahu belltJ dcruwd or c~riy 'fJCikd aut by a COIIrt. Do ,ou ru.t , .. , a d•klnm!

Mr. J oo: Well, we: would nQit be runninJpo much or 11 rid:, 1(, for e.xantple, we may hive o~dookcd a ri.J.bt whkh may IWC hove beta ca~llrltltd.

I ay tblt because i(we an truly 1-oi.n! to be partkipatin1 in C•nada. we have to be p.rt of the amending f<lfmul't in the fwtu rc:-. and if we arc: p.n or t.h~t. tbcn lt makct tcme that we thould '-vc • policAJ blue m .... le .. we CIOIIId advocate tk: iiKJ.U. ol additiou.l nthts wlridl IM)' hawoc boc:11 kft OUt i11idalty.

But there b • arclll cllnacr lr the f:t.IHCIIt trend-and tadii'IJ the patriat.ioft bill. tbc t.armn utod b 10 CJ~dlilde U$ from aa,y amcadment; if that it lltc cat:e. tllldl thr tm.u rt 1"· tbctc it a areat dan,a.er. Mr. Mad.a••y: I am afraid, on" avtn.. in our wmln£11c.tt to rectify tome Q( the i".}ldtka we tend to ctct~tc r:c w -.ea.

-•id1 Us beat t.he 1*torJ eflbr ao-callcd ""''c eommuity I• their dQJinp. In the finn category. Canadian vcnll$ sp«lal Jt.uut. you

.. 'OIIJd have tomt input ill tbt amending (orm.ala ie tht .WI¥C &hat JOII .....o.akl be. udrtr tbe prcstm formula. WJilmt.. if, pcrchanot, we had to to 10 1 rt".fercndum; you wouW be voelnA al 11 Cannditn, rllther tl\lln u a Cnudlan with 3pc<:isl u~tu~ .

Whm yo. wartt bodll f1 bc:almc:l ftfY dltralt; ud thb • nt)' way o( .ayen& tblt tltc: Mk•l &OI•tbt to the problem would be if at aomc time In the fotC$1CilWc future you ~1d ace 11 ndafactory end to nq_otlallon, tbcn. tbeortticllll)', you wo11ld be hke uy otbct C.aaacba"; chat. ol ~ne. poNS a nltutal tbraL

I do not pretend to talk (or the othccr party, and then: is no pnrty 11~ at thb momcnl: but I co11ld .s« an tUfVilint.tac or a sublcction (t) ol Secdoa 24 N • mdtll <11 r~.muacb~ Cnadi­aM a.nd, fldha,... tbe S•pre~~W cwn that ir. and •bM. nctotiations are tinaJizcd they booo1ne aulomttk. a kind of OJ,tlna in procc5.S to the eonstitutJon h that what you nre t.~~llettina?

Mr. Jw. Ya; wiu.t ,..<e ue lifi.I,CC'hrq K that. tr1 faca. .. hatevn- •ar~cmc-.nt 'f''C oome tO will be !IOinehow CJI$hrlned, enlrenchod In tile Canadllln oon5litullan. That Is a~olu tcly lnle.

13 :))

l7'rlrJwr/on) Toutc la qlotCiiiO!I \OIUM doac: aut<*.t 4c b clft•~ s&.c

de vo. drolu, vcn droits c.ll !ant qu'autocht6nc:s. Vout 1\ndj. qllct en ltrme.s ·~fer, poCdquer D la pif~ J de VOire memoire, li\ oil vou.s ditu quU.ne foil la n4«hations tc:tminlcs, £1 scn poMJbk: ck sawoir .dies l.tiu:t d~ Y•loa ... Jc paraph.raac. je Mi• q!ilt c'C$1 ict qloldquc part. Je vous pc»e ccue queJtlon c:omme quelqu'un qut, tout en c:omprenan1 vutro point de YUC, efit placl daout un dllcmme. 11

me Mmbl.e qtK: 110Ci$ •VOM kl dc:u clMiix, ed-.i de MJO('lia. de C:OOtMWU de Mcocicr la dlli•itiooe de cu dn:lita, 011. eet .. de pre!Mfre un raocourci, con'nw c:qtaint 11 u1rcs aroupes l'on propoiC, et d 'enth imet daeu 111 con:sthullon une dlfenidon uC1 vag\le des dro.u ckla.u!.Ck'.htonn.. ~uiuc ice q,.'jM .oknt piiQ tmS ricu. dCfiad. d &iairc. par ks tnbi!M111. Vow ¥O)U ce di)Cfi'IM 'f\'IUNI~nMI1

1\1. Jot: Nout ne voulons pu courir oe ri~~oqvc. nous !")Ill• riont, ~r cxempk, oublier 1111 autre droit dus • conttiiUtioll.

Je dis c:da, ctr d t10u.a vouloJtS 'mliment fairc p~rtle i mt~· Jl&lltt du Canllda, il faut que not.a plltticiplonf j toute rlformc future tl, ~r oot~Hqt~cm .. JIOf.IS dcvoras avu.ir un.c wise polttiqk po.~r pouvoit cknat.ftlkr I•INCftioe de droiu 111ppit. mct1tl1res qui auraknt pu etrc la~ de e0t6 i J'orl&iiiCI.

Malls!: la tc~noe: ac.:tud~t c'e~t bien cc qui reuort d~t pn:~tCt de ki _.., le raP~~tnemm.t. C!OIIdue i ._ cad•rc:. dt to.te rtf<lr'lnt, c'a:t ttU da~: N c'm bkn le cas, le dJ.fi.JC.r es-t rid en err et.

M. Maeckut'~ J'11i biCll pcur q\l'unc fob CI'ICOt'C, en vouJanl reairtCt cntai'*Ca i.;usticu. nou af(IM tc~! ae etlu de ROI.I'tdla. cc q•l ell de tndiho~e pou:1 otux qu'Oft tppelk la oomm•nautt blanche.

En ce qui conccrne I~ prcml~rc c:atlaork. c;'ut•t•dlre etre Ca1'1die11 piu tOt q111e d't.YOir 11• ill tU i part • ...,.. penicipaitt i la rffonnt tft cc tdiS Q•e ta fc:wm~o!.e r.Qud)e VOU.t at:etori~~eo rait i voter, c:n tt.~PfiOSnnt q11'il fa llle Wlllniacr un rtf~rendum: voUJ votcriez en lllnt que Cun,adieo et 1100 en uuu que Can.&· dlcn dot6 d'u.n.ltltUt i part.

A penir d11 JIIOII!IOit ot ~' ~lcl. kl den. k:l ~ 5e compliquent !nor~Mment: Jt vcux dlre par Jj que~ la solution idC.lc llu prQbl~nW! strait que, dans un avenir pr6\oh1lble., lcs nlJ.odations ttCK~Wnl UDC ittue qui Y01U COftVielloiWIU. moytta· ru11t q.oi wous acrie1 t.Mor"Pca~t CICift'lll'ftt lout. ks ntm. Cauctlc:na. cda ,.,e,.a.cc. bleotGr, vot.re cuhu:rc..

Jc ne pr~te~ pns pdrkr 1111 nom de !'outre part le, et pour l'bcurc il n'y a pes de divisi«~;. m;~;U je ttou.vc q\IC le pan:va· pht (b) ck ramde 2• a-.n.ll l'awan~ap. de ,..,.,., aa ... Canadlena, c1 ptllt·w-e i la Cclllr .s-upstmc.. que., si la nl~ocla• tiot.- nboutissent, le5 rt3ultah pourroo1 flrf: 111tomadqucment inlll:eU daM la eon.ttitutior., Clt'ile bie.n 'e que vou.t prCclonise.t?

M. Jw: Olli: 41Kf qut 110tt racoord auquel Oft tbocltira. il $C:rl indre dan1 la COtlfhllltkln e:;1nadicnne ~ui le ptatlllra • C'hl llbsolument lltlli.

I

18 ' .W~-- -----------C.O~~'"~ ... ~,ioft~of~Ca~•~adl'!!.------ __ _ _ _,1~·1:.:2;.:·1~980~

{'rtxtl Mr. ~bd.uer: Preferably by .an acklitlon to Sct-1ion 24,

JIQif'Sibf)'

Mr. Jot: Or crc,umg a new 3ecti01t.

Mr. 1\bckuJi\lly: A new Jc«ion to Section 24, right , a

.s:ubsC'dlo..

ftnoaUy •••

Tilt John ChNlrmllll (Stfl.IIIOr Ha)'t)l Yqur bn que$l.tOn.,

Mr. MICkalicy,

Mr. 'bd.ueft Yes. I ant~ap1ted thiL Tht il •by I satd

-nn.aUy"', Mr. Cllaltmu.

The Section U(l) on arflrmalive ria,htJ, do you think thllt

thll it 'ufr~~tiendy powerful 01 Y~"cll wrllltn or ~le~rly cnnun.­

!Ciltccf1 Do ,a. thlat that ~ a. affirmative riabu would

tomchow aiiCYfatc your fdtt o( a m#;U inR• ll of trUlJCliU and

OllCC: I Jain y(IU people Yll!l be ukcd 10 step ufcJc fllr the

temporary jobl. Would )'lu flnd any objection to u1ins t.hal

sctdon ao protcn )'OU..r k-,!ili.matc position •• redlknlJ of that

am o.lhe «PIMioo dut wil JO 011. kc. ~a~ say, Ofl a pipeli~~e

pro;oel'?

Mr. Joe: WcU. Sec:tioJt IS(l) i1 IMlC broad enou&)l 11 this

~I'M 1111 lime. 11 lpUb cl procrams for di~Nm.ata,J<d JtVUpL

1'o Include our adllement In that. our liCUkment llat to be a

prQSram for • d lu d vani\\JCd jlroup. llllPP"1U eo me I hat tl\at

is ocrlllnly not the httt tlt of our ttttle:ment. Our aeuJemen~ lt

intn6cd to e.atludl cuul• ripu Pno Cuadi .. law and

5«110ft I 5{2) tt not • • ,

Mr. Mad:atf'y: I am l lll ~in,a in tbc: ltii!Uition J'IC.Iiod. ln tbe

period •llik ,_ are still •aocla.tift& dw- ri&hu: • • kll you

effiUWany 'llo' l.ltf CIUrenc:bftf.

Mr. Ju.t: If you IICCe-pl thu, one. n:UI\'C ri&ht4 in Conada b~

to be enshrinl!d tben you a re aoina to hii\'C to make amend·

Det~LJ IO the c:urrc:M prop;liKd re:tohttiO.,

1\tr. Mac;W.er. l"hllk )VU. Mr. Cbirmu.

'lllt .foh1t Chalrma• (ScJuuor Hayt): Tl\;ank you very mu.c:tl ,

Mr. ~hek.asey. Mr. Nielsen foiJowed by Mr. Epp.

~h. Nitbt«: Thuk )'011, Mr. Joitll O..wmaa. J oc-kl not

agree mort with llx last Jtltcmcnt th~t .... , made by Mr. Joc,

I have two obllcrvations to m;~l:e before f put ndditiooal

qllc~tklnt. ooc: whk:h aro&c at 1 result or Mr. lrwin't q ueslion•

in& • Mh rupee~ 10 tbc llr'IObility Jiabt.s. M r. Joe it~ mod$

wb«t he ans--ered •;tlli a.n otlmate oll.OOO people: on a cbity

buif In miJ:ruuon at a f(:S:uh ol pipeline conslrucllon. 1t hilt

beeo e•thnated thCite is 2ny~hC1re bct...,.een 2 aod 10.000 people:

•nd the ims»et 011 the c11hurc ol not j .m the lt1dian p«~ple but

tbe MIIPI'Ct <* tha •We ol the poptlatJoe of Y11.koo 11

extremely suious ConJid~r thole membcn and Mnllots rtom

the Provintc or Q\tebet in the c:ommunily or Rouyn, a c:ummu·

nity or 18.000. All or a sudden you had lto 10.000 anatu­

~ ddte11d on tbal eomlhiUIIity; Pm1luly Grub)' w!tb 1

poputaliQn Q( some 17.000 and u ianu of bet•«n 2 and

10-.000 :anglophond <H'I tll:u communit)'. The whunaJ impact

would be somewltat similiar t<l lhal described by Mr. Joc.

(TroM/QI /Ote)

M. Mad;uey: De prC.U~nOCI c.n ajoo1ant ii l'anld c 24

q_uclquc dKite q•i • •lie 4a.M c:e N-11111

M. Jot: ()u. en r6fi11n1 UM IIOIIIYC!k cbUK.

M. Mackastr: Uno nouvcllc ctausc j l'ultld e 14, c'ut..!·

dire u.n Pfl"-lraphe?

Poar •«mM ..• Le cojllfU.i •ent (tl111ltc• r Hars): Ce sc-rta l'Qtrc ckrniC:rc

q1.1csti-on, monsieur Mac'kasey.

M. MM'kucy: 0...1. jc m'y tllcndais. C"tit po11-rquol j'ai di t

•pout tnml.ttt:r--. ~t le prUtckaL

Peniet.4'0U3 Que- le IX&r2!1'1phc (2) de l'orddc I 5 Jur lcs

progr•mmc-• d'a~;tion tociale 50knt suffisammcnt puist~nu, ou

cbJrement ridig&1 Pmst:t· "(MMI que en art.elc- sur ks pto.

.,._mn'!Ci d'Ktion aociaJe lpplli$C la cntfllt( qK 'fOld al'C'I. de:

voir a.niver ul'le maMr de. pnsonnc:• tl'l ua!Uit tt d'tuc t.neotc

unc folt Wort& da cmplolt tc.mpon.itaT Vcrriet·vot.u un

inc:on.,i.nlent a ce qgc oet article acsve i prOifaer volrc c:ondi·

don. .v,iti~nt de rWidtnu d'Wne ~ ••i COI'Itlllltra .ae

up;aiUIOtl., arice. Pit e~em~. i b constnetion d 'sn

pipe-t ine?

M. JN1 Le pangrapbc· (2) d e f'arlide tS n'ut pat suNium·

De~~t ..-utc ""*' finttut. 11 pr~rki de ptOJI'Joll\mtS i l'uucaliocl

cks a.rou~ d.UaYOtbls. Pout Cl'" te t&ohat dt 111015 ltf.toda-· tkln$ cnuc IA-ded11n1, il dolt f1ire l'objet d'un prosrammc

destine A un grol.'pc dUavanlaJ6. Ce n'cat ftlrcment pule but

de 1105 MJOdatioN. CdkH:i Yitent i obtet~ir la sa,.ntit de

oerta:i'M drats eh• k JfPbtioft C&!UI~ et k ~ta~

(2) de l'llirtlcle 15 n'cfl pn, , .

M. Mubtey: J c JM&rle de la pirkxlt de troMilion, t'cst·il·

cUre dill! la ptriode CM) VWJ Dt&Odez eftCOrc I• droitJ dortt vous

'fOUdriu M1tt1KI~ obte~~it ll p rutict

M. Jor. Si 't'OUS acor:ptcz: qve tu dtoitJ dtll autoohtOfltt du

Cuna d:a .oic:nt garantls p.r lr~- COtlllitution. 11 va (allolr modi·

tier le projc.t de rbotlllion.

M-Mach,.,: M e:tci. ~ k ~

Le t&prhi.tcnl (•ln•teur lh,·t): Mercl. mons.iC\Ir Mlt"ka·

w:y. La Jllltok seta i M. Nicben., 11o1lvi de M. llpp.

M. NM-httc Men;:i. lbOOSicvt le pt&idoeOL J 'approu~ Mli~·

rcme.nt cc que 'rictlc d'anit'IIIU M. Joe. Ava.nl clc SX*t des

ques.1ions iuppiCmetuair~. } 11! deux remarquu i flire, doni

l'unc d6co~o~le de li quutioo poKe pa.r M, lrwlna au sujct de la

hbert6 de d rc:u.btion d d 'l u bliswmc.nt. En a tlmant l 2,000 k

nombre de tcrlf qui flli&rat qu,ocidieucmc•t i c:alliC de la

c:ot~strur:tion. du pipC!>-InM. ll'IOIUittar Joe cac ltl• r'IIIOdatc. Olrl a

caku l6 que le chilfre f'~tabfit entre 2.000 e-1 10,000, e1 lc:s

repc;r-cuulons sur la tto~lture nQf'l &eulcment de• lndiens mail de

to.te la pop~~latioll d\1 Yutoo 10111 vt~ettl imporlan.1rt.

Prt-t'lont 5c cat du dEpart& « cks Knateurs qv1 vieucl!ll de

RoU>C:n, v•llc de 18.000 habil:lniJ, s;itu6c di&I'IS la provlnec de

Qu6'bec. llno.ainez: que toodain, entre. 2,000 c1 10,000 11nJ)o·

phones arrl"'"'' cb111 Cdtc viiJ~ lmaainu la mlmc chose pour

Granby, dont la poptlalioft ell de 11.000 hlbhuts. La: rfpu·

Cldsiotls e• ft11rellea U1'taicnt uefo&ues j tdla que •icnt de

d6crire. M , Joc:.

!>·~1~2·~~~·8~·~------------------------~c~ .. ~·~~;~~·~~;~·~·~··~Ca~n~•~•~·----------------------------~•s:J> (7C>~tt")

The ob.sc:rvation t.hat I want to m11ke h<1$ to 6o • itb Mr. Alien's responset concerninJ tbe Yukon TcrtitOt"ial g.cwem· mcnt, •md I took his wotds do-.·•t. The Yukon 8!11>'Crnmct~t opposes a land d~['" sculement. Wilh re3pc« to Mr. Alfcn, and to be fair, h ii m)' conviction that that is 1\04 accurate and the: Yul:on territorial govemment earnestly wanl.l a fa ir ud just settlement to Yukon l;~ncJ d aim5. For those membeN of the Committee wlu.> are not aware ol the fart it sbou.ld be noted t h.111 the Yukon go"«rtmttlt I~ lmd ved in the ·nc&Qtillt· i.ng process and I belle~'C are ncgotilllina i.n good fai:tb and I believe are nc::g«illtina in tbe spirit of cooperatioc'l to aehieve tlult deadline which could be achieved, u Mr. Joe 51ated, p«haps in six n10nthf time. Out thq arc involved a.nd they are arnesl and they 11re nqotialing and participating in good fail h.

With rcspeCI to 1be oons-titution Itself, llnd I wiU dirett lhiK qucslion to Mr. Joc :u 11 b::trri3ter and $0licitor, wbal &ectiolls ol 1be lndiM Act, nn aCI which I k11ow he:- is very familiar wilh, could be deemed of no (()tee or efft:e1. gi\'en Sccti()fl lS of the proposed charter. Ha~·t you d<.W~e 11n an11.l)'$is?

Mr. Joe: I peDono.lly have not done Ollt such as tb.at. but I would su11pcct1hat the membership seedons or t he Indian A~;t tbemselVC$-I thirtk tbe Nadon.:.l lndi11n BrotberhoocJ, when tbey appear, $hould they 11ppe11r before tbe Committ<>e, wou.ld have more precis-e ar.s•>en on that.

Mr. Nit-lstn: With rts~t to the ob"rvation of Mr. Mock­asey, Stec)Qn 15(2) is almost word for 'llo'Ofd lifted 0111 of t.he same $CCiion number. Section 52 of tbe Human Rights Act. So. that is )'OUt irualm provision, if th~t is nece$Ht)'·

Mr. 1\tac-klse)': Except you w.·ilt hll\'e more "''eiJ hl cominJ frorn t.he 0Qn$titution th1111 you 'A'OUid have out of the Bill ol R~ahl$.. othetwise. you w.-ould not be putting any in the corcslitution.

Mr. Nlt~lt: But t.hat is p:ed~ely what Mr. Joc is SllyillJ, that has to be brood, it is not good et~ough 10 have it in the: Human Rights Act only.

With respect to language rights, tbete-h~t been, .u I said in my ptc:Jhninary questiOons, some proares.s made in Yukon. p«ba~ indeed mo~ than in any o tber jurisdiction in Ca11ada COilCcrning the accommodation of n~til'e l ill ngu~rte rights in YQl:on and furth.c:r ptOjlt«:S is being conscientiously undcrtak· en by tbc Yukon gO'I'Cmmcnt, at i5 my u.ndeDtanding.

Do you feel that we could mate pt"OVision now, even prior to final sc:~tkmcnt or yQur negotiations.. for entrenchment of native hmauage rigbts in the comtit utional pac:tag,e whit~ iJ before this Joint Committee: at thi$ $1;~ge?

Mr. Jot: I do not iec-any difl'!t.:ulty with doinJ 1 h~1 a·t all. Mr. Nit-lst-n: Ha~>e )'OU coMidc:ud a draft at all? Do you

h:l\'t: OtiC-to Pfopo;e tu t.ha Commiuee? Mr. Jae: No, we do not. Mr. Nidun.: The:-Tahhon native pe(>ple in tltc Pr~ince of

Briti.sl! Cofumbiu are matin.a land cla ims whkh ex.tencl to areas within tbe jur;dical boundaries of the Yukon Territory. Are )'OU oppok<l or fc>r the 1'~rblton claim M it ~rreas Yukon?

I Traductlol'lj Mon comrncntalre a trait A la rc!pon~ de M, Alien conccr·

nant le go~wernenw:nt lertitoti.tl du Yukon: j'ai pris en oo!e cc qu'i l a dil. Le gouvememcnt du Yukon s'oppo:~e q.u r(glemen! des teveM!cations territori~r ld. $;ens m~nquer de mpeec enver$ M. Alien et pour eue juste. je suis oom·aincu que c'tM inexact. el que k g_ouverneme-nt tertit01lal du Yukon desire ~raiment un r~&kmenl juste e1 Cquit~~oble des r6clamations territorinles du Yukon. Pour les mcmbres d 1.1 CornitC-qui n.e le sauraient pas, je ferol rem:ll'<jutr que: le- gwverncmen( du Yukon partlclpe-au pr<lOCSSus de nCsociAtiom. Je pense qu'ille fa it de boo ne foi, dans un espfil de cooptration et en ~herchant i relpecter I'CcMance de- tl:t. moiJ dont a ~riC M. Joe. 11 partldpe et n!g.ocie Sl!rieusement e• de bonne foi .

Pour ce qui est de la constitution. j'aurais une qut:~tion ir l'adresse de M. Joe en sa Qualit~ d 'av~l. Etanl OOnne !'article l.S de l.a c.harte proposk, quels articles de:- la Lol sur les lndiens, qu'i.l oonnaft ttCs bien. je le saia, pourroient i:trc OOflsidetCs comme n'ayant aucun effet. A'~~·l"<IUS fai t cctte anayl~?

M. Joe: Personnellement, jc ne l'•i PIS f;ei tc, mais je p~· Jume que les mcmbres de la Fraternite oationale des lltdiens l'ont faitc-. car i!s .sot'll dircctement vis~ par ee~ articles de 111 Lol fiur let lndJen&. lb auront des r6ponits plus prt<:ises il ~ous fournir li·de.ssus lonqu'ils oomparatuont dC'I'tnt le Co:nit!, le cas CcMant.

M. Nitlstn: Au sujet des commentaitts d e. M. Mll<:kaiiey, l"att kle I S(2) ett pre~que copit mQC pi,I!Ur m()t JUf l'artiele 52 de 111 L.oi sur ks droits de 111 per$0Tinc. Si Mcessai~. c'est done: \'OUe disposition provi&<>i re.

M. Madr;asey: Sauf que ctla aura pl.us de poid~ dotns Ill C'<lnttl tutlon que da nt Ill ch.trte-des dr<litt. autrement, vous ne l'incluriez pn.s dam la ~;ons-t ilution.

M. Nielsn: C'cst J)t'Ccisiment cc que dil M. Joe.. 11 faul Hargir c:ette- d iJpasltion, il n'ett pcu tuffisant que oe soit 1.1niquement dans la Loi sur les droils de la pcn;onne.

Au chapilre des droits linautsliques, comrne je l'ai di1 dlm.t ma quc:stioo prfliminairc:., le Yukoa a peut·~ttt, concemllnt les drolu llngulniquet autoc:htones, fait plus que toute autre juridiction au Cantld~ . et, ' i j'ai bie;; QOmpris,le gotwtrncment du Yuk<M'I c:.f'ltre-prend Ootlstlencleusement d 'autre-3 mesures pr~res:sive-3.

PrC"ntemenl, mCmc 11v11nt le r(alement fi nal de vos ntgo­ciatioos, pc:n&et·vous que nous pourrions prendre deli di~~i· dons pour enehAuer dans le pr()jet ~onstitu ti<lnnel soumis au ComitC mixte le.s droit51inJUiftiques des aut~htones?

M. Jot: A moo sel'd. cela ne pose aucune dilficult6. M. Nielsen: AYe7.•VOUi pen~ d en fai re urw: C~uche'! en

a~·ezA'OOS une a soumeure au ComitC? 1\t, Joe: Non, noui n't n avont pas.. 1\f. Nit-Inn: Lcs re'l"ndie~~lion.s tcrritoriales des autochlones

Tahltons.. ttl Colombie·BritannJquc:. pottent sur dtl r6gions relennt de la juridk:tion des territoires du Yuk<m. £te$·l'OUS

.. 18~' 3~6'--------------- Cun$tit~o~t~ ol Co.nadil - ~==~~----------J- 12·1980

Mr. J ew: Wcll, of COiulc: we are 'Ot t.he Tal\h(lofl claim

bc:a.NC we. like the TanON baYe c::la.ims in Al.ub. the

Northwest Tmitoricl aMI Britisb Col•mbia. Of COU.Nit. -e res.pect the fan tllat other lndi:tn. tribal h3Yc claim3 '" the

Yukon Teultory. Wh~t ,.,e "'"'OIIId lib to do is dcc:ido •nutually

bctwew lho OoveuHnent 1>f Cartllda, the Tahl1on1 a nd any

otbQo MIIYC: JI'OUJI' that have dalm• that ma)' OVCII.Ap OUJ

iatauu in tbe Yak01t and dc"dopcd a matu:al poiiC)' lhat

spcab to how ._ arc- Pna to addrc:n tbt vtt)' di.frKCh

question in the future, Prtscntly, tbcu is not in uYICbCC any

&~K.h polky. Mr. Nltlwa: Thu it wbat I WIJ lf"-UinJ at by kl-din& Into

lhat Nlt.cf wO tlut Wl q~iQil.

Mr. Jo-. the loYet•lllent, it appc:an to me, MC4s &OmC

assistance in dewq,ina tuch a policy.

The Joint CluJnna• (Staator Hayt ): l ast qucsttoll.

Mr. NkbH:: Do 70'1 fed that oua territorial daims ol

natiYc pcqJ~e, d :afm.s ''" extertd hyOIICI juri1dichOM 1n w-bldl

they rind themselves into othtr juri&l.hc:tions.. ~Id ""satisfied

by a lllOI)Ctary scttle111ent as Oppot~c::d 10 a territoriill

KttJem~t?

Mr. Jw: I tlilm.lt tlaal 4jvcstion 0011W be bctte:r put to titosr­

pattic::ullt iftdiriduA thlt ate i1t ....... as 0111e oplllofl. I tn.Uy

can..not i pellk to that at thlt poi.nt irt time.

Mr. Nltlt~t•: On behalf of CYI on their U trll territOtia1

daimt.. Mr. Jot: My~ pr~Jy arc 110.

Mr. Nkber. OM more qucstiott, 'lr. Chalrl'ftln, plcz~.

Were )'«! led to believe:, CYI, that 1011 would be in'f'91vc:d in

any way In the Fir•t Mlnbten' ooofertnccs and/or In the

de\•tk)pmUit O( t he u bdn& OOr'lstilut/ona/ package bcJore th.ii

Joirtt C•minc.-e? Mr. Jw. No.

1'he Joint Clulr• .. (St-'llalor Ha,..): Th:ank: you verr mucb,

M r. Nielsen. Mr. Ha.,_,kc::s. you h~Yt- 11 qt.~ution?

Mr. H11•1i:6! Just a C'Ot.lpk of confirmatory qucstloi'IL Your

c:oocttn abcMit mobility ia 0111 two Rcles., is thst C'Of'rcd? You

'II"J.rtl «t protect ,.OU.t'MI( -.pinu i~W&Jioa. bfJ.'t ~ of

people, but to rcdrea tllc disadYanto,ae cwoomk conditions

there mi.ISI be ptO'fi&ion in the oonttltution for prc:rercndal

hirins & •Mlt~ininJ and proarams of tha t kiDd a nd tho't should

be du.r and apccir"K: thole were tbe two major •..

M r. Allfla: Yd.

Mr. fla•b&: Okay. Tb~:re was another tbtdd that I wooid

like you 10 uddress, OM or tl1e sla temcntll I underlined .,_,.as

that yo. say on pa!'C! l

Otitt)' tkte cx•u no a.ooo.raWe ,iUSCifatiolt r. rush­

instoonnh such a C::OMUtutioll31 mUcnone-

Tbi1 U In ycM~ r m~&_JOr brief rather 1h11n your opening ilate·

metlt. Thc.te 1$ also the id~ that you want thli IIJttemcnt

ent_rc:n.ehcd and you totieS th•~ )'(IU uticipa;ted in a sho"cr

( Trvw#crthMJ ll'O'it ou contre ea rcnndic.t101U aJ « q•' clks touchc1U au

Yulu;,m? M, Joe: ~vld~n1mcnt, I\Ooul tommes (aYOrablts aux revc.ndl·

eatkml dH T1hhot1L ear. I lc.111 ins&ar, I\OC.ItiYOM dei revc.ndi·

catio&s ea Al&.l&. dui la TC'rritoircs d• f'olord.CJrucs& et. c. Colombic:· Blitanniq-ue. t•tckm~r~ent, 110t11 ~ons k fait

que cf1U,1trc1 lfibu3 indic11nu ont ~ tcV\l!Mlications .wr lea

tc.trllaire. du Yukon. Ce que nou$ ain)Criom faire nv« le

IOU''crncme.nt d11 CaMda, lu Tahhoo1 t4 tous autres ~roupe~

ntoeb~ I) .. Dt de$ fkbNtioM qui pC'-UVCCI c:mpif1tr lUf

tn natres :ta Y•bwt.Ccu d"._ablir eascmbltla pririCipa tdoa

lnqveb nous allom abc:ltdcr o::uc q~ti(ln dttfiCllot i l'avtflir.

Powr l'lnSiant, 11 n'y a pas do pc"lncipc3.

M. Nltllt•: C'cst e.uc:tcmcnt oti: je 'YOulait en ,·enlr &\'tt ma

duniC:re qtlftllon. MQ!~Sicsr Joc, •I mt ktlllbk q.e k JW"CtMmcM a bnooia

d'aide p:~QT 6tablir un tcl prindpc.

Le oopr!hild(lnt (llt.11a1eur HI)'S): C'ctt votrc dcrnlttt

ques..tlon. \I. Nittwtl: Sdoa l'OUf. Ut« qu'•• r4kmu!t rno.nba•re.

pcu oppoiltloo.l I un ~sknmt tttritonal, "'*it utbt'ak&At

pour les rCclit~mboos e.xtra•t«rit(lll'iales del autochtona. pc~~~r

lc::& r~da1n11tk)nf qui s'61cndcnt au~el.i de la juridic:tion oil ils

habitcnt? M- JK: Je pcmc qo•jJ liltr.it pdffnbk 6c poser le qucsticMI

all.l pcno«"* YiiCa c• ~ pn;JPODal ccttc cptioe Po.r

l'uu.unt. je ne tuls vr~imcnt pu eft RlQIIr\'. d'y ripoondre.

M, Nlelu.m Concernant le• ft-\'t:ndiotll tloM CJtt1it•ll:tr1tona•

let du C<lak/1 de~ lnd.letli du Yukotl.

M , JM.: Pt&mtemeru., tdoil me:$ direetlvu. c"fit no..

M, Nldfnc lhw: lknlieft qMStiorl. ~r k pra..dcal,

•'il vo~» plah A•t.-oa faJu~ aohc su Conllftl da lltdi~• du Yukon qu'il pllrti~::ipcrait d'une manihc ou une :tutrc n~

conr.&cnces dct ptemiers mlnlm·cs ou li 1'61aboration du projet

c:ons 1 itutionl'ld cion t k comitl; conjoiDt a.t IChldltii'IC;nl niJ:I'f

M . Jw. JroiOI'. lA co,..fsl4cflt (•btatellr Hatll}: Mcrci ballcot~p. fi'IOIIIIkur

Nielsen. Mon:sic:ur 1-law-kc.. avic~·YOUi unc qu(!Jtion a poscr't

M. Ha .. ll.u; Pour 6c::lairtr ma lantcme, .Jmp}ement. Votre

pr6occu.patton da ddpl'itionl ~na.nt la hbcrtt de ch'CIIII·

hoe ~parte ..,, ...:lku., a'at-« pas1 v.., I'CIIIb ._.

~cer <lOWittc l'in"Uion. eontre ram-..\ ck p:lll. 1Mb. en

me.rne tcnlllfi, \'Qiilt voulez tcdrd!4et lc:s condhlom twnom~ua

d~fa.vore.bl~ en fai~ant en(lh3$t~cr dant 111- eot1Stitution des

PfUg.tammc:s d'emba~,~o~;hc e-1 de formatiM prUCrentlclt ptki$.

Vo.li ks dtv.l pri.cipau:l .• •

M . AJit•: O.i. M . Ha"'''~ D'acoord. 11 )'a une aut A'. q~o~mion a Yqu~:llc,c

vcuJC que WIUI l)l)f'tict. :tuentlon. A la paac J, j'ai souli.ll.ttC l;i d"'laration s;uh•• ntc;

Catel. Gll M pt•t pu ,_..lfkr Cldtc: pridpitatioft ~ •ae

bor~X ClOMiit•ttonnoelk.

Cu propo11 fitturc-:nt da n11 voue m&notrt cc non d~nt Y(Mtc

dtdar¥itil>n prllhnin.1ire. Voutl mcntionnu auul que l'uc:cotd

ck'rr:tit ~trot CIIChJ5Jt. Voull d!ICI t&alemtfll que VOUI C01npt.icr.

).12-J9SO Cont1ltution du Caruda 11 ; )1

fTt>xu) period a( sh montb5 lllat )'OU rnllhl in f•ct ~ nblc c.o rca~h the kind of a3tccmct1t )'Oil l'ljll'i! b«~t •'Ofklng on for seven )'UfS. I an,Ju•t woncJerillJ if what youttre tr)in.t to llll!l clearly 10 UJ: i11 th.1t from your pc:raepccd~;e h W(I!Uid ~helpful if we wailed a wtlile before we pv,triated, tblt a. k111t ywr <:onocrn;s could be $t.TuiJhtcDC:d 0\lt in l.lrp IMIJ1i1ta throuJ,h tbc piJAJC ol j~»t a liule MOtt tl.mc, Could you Jive us .s<~mt atl.matt ol clle k£rtd of 11mc ti'Ml you tlu•L b tk siA month ftlurc- hu1y rum Ot .... w 10'1 •rtc ... to • 1111 • year « eq:Jat .... , .. ,

Mr. Alltc I tlliat it j,s a tu.tOMbk ume • ·c cocW loot aL

Mr, Ha•t.n: Okly. And thutbc lt.P thi"' I •ut CO u.y. IO Just malt clar . Do )'OW fed that all)' oonuitutiQnal dlange tfTocti~& aboriJ:inal people. Yukon lnd•ana spcciftetJiy, 5hould be: acred to by th~ people 11nd tl\el lOt C\<er after in the fu ture constitudonaJ c;ban.Je u it afrocu all CnnadiaM (K

eonttltulional change as it affecu tboriJinnl poopk sOOuJd be aa;rmlto by a.botiginill pwplc'l

Mr. AJk!•: The bu tcr (llllrt.

Mr. Halll'bs: That OOtlttltutkH'I~ I c:t..nac as it alf~ aboriginal peopt.c 1hould be 11/Ccd to by thole people Lhrou!ll 10mC O*ballism of atraqiftl ttptCM.IUiliota and iltiiOIYinJ lh~tm.

Mr. Jk: That il rialll. bltl it • ill eot • ork not ftrD; t~l is to a y. rot ~- if t.hm if aoiea to be •IMMmmts to die CIIOUitatioe ia the (ut•re IMt afl'cc:u a ccru.ia pnwildal rlPt ud l~t aiTecu tbose dlanc:t ol r.pu tllat fadlilla pcopk U\'C ia tUt provi.M:e. it appears 10 me that "'"'are aoiftl to jlftdl.tde an Indian duncr of ri&htl, ool)' the Mtivt people tllat are concernod tboul that charter thou Id be OOflil.lhod, lwn~o~: 10 be c:onsuhcd, and agr«mc-nt hu 10 be reached before that amtndment c:an come thro~o~gh . Wlt11 rcapcCI tO a provioci<~l r(aht th.1t is panted or taken tv.·uy In the rullirrc, if it affects native peopJc, they IIXI wlwould be comulted In that amet~ding (or m.

TM Johu Cha lr.a11 (Sin.atcif fh)'ll~ Th11nk you very mi)Ch, Mr. Ha.wl~s. OQ you beve a q~tloe Mr. N)'lii1C!m you wat~tcd to uk?

Mt. Nt'Ut'O-.: Yes., jU$1 • CIOUpk of t:hort OCIH if I may. I ._w bl:e eo u.k ~h. Alka OIICC .,.. •• it he: illarcs the idea thl.t ..._.,. pcopk bft actwoe.ted tlut il aboriaiul filhu are .a~ attaldwed DOW in o.r CIOIIIIIil•tioa. ~)' nuy lltftf be C«<J.briaod bcci.ti$C ODe bru 10 t.hN &.0 ttlfOIIJ}I 1111 Uluadiq; (onnllla wbcu )'Oil have many 4rf'I'UU!t combitlatiocu tbat are vet~ ~thc:r by the GO\•ttnmtnt ol Canad1, the Ocwe:n~mmt o( Quebec, the Govemment or Ontario, t\lo'o ~'"'C.'Itcm Jl'O''inocs or 1111'0 Atlutic provinoc:s. Are you o( the opinion that i f your ri,a.h16 trc not enshrined now, If " 'C were to petriato: with _.bfl t e~e~ e.lse, and not cMhrioo your rla ht!l, that it would become ' 'Cry. very difficult to do ao In the ru ture?

Mr. AUett lt is true. I ttunk if )'Otl look at the political c:ircumWlii!KlCJ 1oday and the way IO"frtllne-.nt deals with JndJu Ri&bts and promises 1nd oommhmcnll ud also cleci­tiotls madt by the courn, I do not tbln.t • ·e can jll.U ka."e it *" (or .somcooc dse ou.r luunc: proew. ln tCTm. of negotiat· i•alldiaa ri&hu.

I TroJ11ctit»fl patvtltlr en tl• n!UiJ A l'uoord nqud 'IOU5 u av•illtJ', dcpul~ !lept ~Jn~o. Je rne demande i i vous vooJe.?. dire qu'il -.crail ljtile., de volrc point de ..-uc, d'•ttendre uv11 n1 de: ro•patrier la eonJthu• tion. que I' on tplllmuit Y()l inquiCtudes CliOI'mtn'lt.lll t n 1111(.11• dant un pcu plua klngtempt. Qodle durk •"C»"~'OUS ptf'l\l pour ea mct.uJea't Sut moou .wffiKnt~ib? NOtilt c~tltcl• vous l • ttcndl'l: un .,, ou hui1 mod e~M»te 1

At. Alka: C.- •• dC.Iai raisouabk. i II'KIII all'll.

M. lla•iid: O'ao::ont. Ea pise de pr6ekio"· je wrw& demander c• ckrnir:r Ucu d vovs eroye& ~uc: let c:hii!JC.ITI(.ftU OCitlstituticwlndtl toucl\lnt let autoclllonC$.. nota.mfllCI'II, k:1 lnd1e1U du Yukon, devraicnt l'«lt~-oiJ ie oonaetuement del JCIU c:once~nle? AuJJI. etoyu-vaus que., dbormals, tuute roodiflca· tion conuhutlonnclle tauchant leJ ConadienJ ou kJ sutOChtO• nt:ll dcvnrit ~II'CI!Iujr:tte 4 lwr approbatioo'!

M. AIIUI Cell.: op4lon·ti. M. Ha•l tt: A .,,voir que les autocbtonu dcvratcnt, .,_,

l'cntrcmin. da reprbentalltS.. aoootdcr lc:u1 comc.ntcmut A toot chat11Cmtfll const.itutlo~t~l Qui les tou.c:he.

M. Jer. C'ut c:uea. Mail r iflw:t.sc t~t ¥lilt pes, c'ct~·l·dirc. tout tmc:ftdcmcN f•tar.f f b COftllit•tioo qui IOIKite •• droit prcwindal ou '* chan.e de$ droiu de& 1.._ de la ptOWii!Ot c. quation ~' brc IOI!m.il l rapprobation .. ntodttOK&. PtiiiiQu'uftc dlane del droits des ntod!tone& Kr• problbac· mecnl cnc:hb.6c: dtM la OOflllitu-tioo, i1 far.Mira que otu\-d toicnt con~o"lt& et qu'flli approu,~ot toute modlrk• tlon conni· totioftncno. t!aalcment, 1v11nt d'•e«~rder ou d'eniCYtr u111 droit prQ\'inc:ial touc.hant les outochtones, on dcvrait lu oonfultcr sur )a fOtmolc d'amcndtnltnl.

Lt <Oprba.t•l (dnattur Hill): Mcr<l beaucoup, monlkur H•w•cs. Avct-'WO'II unc qoctlioo .1 poKf, monsieuf Nynromt

M. Npll._ 0..., q~telq!IC$ petltei quatlOIIS. ti wwt Mt le pc1'111dtu J'aimua• rcdc:n.llckf i M. Alk11 a'il ;.,.. ftlfiiiiM CCtU.iM. q\IC loi kl dr<liu des utt:IC'lbrorles a.e .,., pu ~ cbm la OOflf.IIUIIJOII, ik M k RI'OIIt pevt-ttle ja1111il. Jl (alfdrait appliqt.ltr UM form•k de rnodifJC:ation q•l q.cllc \IlK !IOit la CC~~nbinaiiOft thailic:., poorrait f:tn. blaq• 6e par le aee· ~~ernement du Canada, le J<IV""mc.mc:t~l du Qu~. k: &OU\'ft• nc:ment de I'Onllrio. deux ptO\'iJIOCS de J'Ou«'t ou dcu pro­vinc~f maf1tlma, eftln\t:L-VOUS que ~j 'lOS droits ne tOnt pill enc.hbs& et al I'Oit doit rapatricr la OOJtStitutlon ltkm I• proc~d tHt l)fOpoc.6c, llsera cxtrl:mement dlfl'icllc. de falro alruJ j l'uvcnir?

M. AUtr~; C'tsl vral. t:"tant don~ Its drcontta.m:c• pol!tl· quQ ac:tvcllc..t 1t Ill fllel)l!. dont le JQUYCrncment rc1pct:te lea droit» da autOC'hiOt'ICI, 6CI ptOmC$$CS Cl SCS CftPICI.'MIIU t11vm eru-c1. 1inti q11e I« dkisiofts ra~dua clan.~ lc!lult•· rauA, oo M ptvt 1-impl~t la.iMct au Minnb 1.1 Mpcil· ""- des dfoiU da UIOC:IltOfte:S.

I Tul) I tbink thet' hu IO bead~ 01" f'tCOCI'litiott or aborl&illal

natlts ud rite~ W 10 ~ ma~ed.mmt ol aboria)..U rttJ!ts.. 5o. tlwre 1$ CIOIIIIIIIIKM commilmcnt by JOfCOit!MI'II 10 4eaJ with Indian pco,ft, I think if that commitment is IIOC there, tbe:

80Y"Crnment will no,t dc11l w1th Indian people, it ks th:&t clear from OUr ~!li Citj}CIICOCCS,

Mr. Nysrrom: Well, my last Qlte.-tioa iJ. if from what )'Oiol

aaid eut~er that lite RO)'a.l Prodamaboe of I ?6J lt \'UJ

importUI aM k tllou1d bt ealvillcd u part cl ou.r ClONib• 11011. for yoar rwot«tkln, for )'OUt land claims aM yc~~~~r CIOilSti­

t\ldonal riJhtt, IJ a.hat the taH1 I am utlk:ina about the prvclarmlion of 176.}.

Mr. Jot: Ye,, h il oot only 11\.e kO)'ll Proclamation. but

tht:rf' arc. a 1tumbc.r of conltiuukwlal documCJIII t.htt 1.1e fiQI

C""U referred to u a ,._, ol S«tbt l ... For cu.mplc, t.he Juae U. 1170 Onfct., .. eow.cif lllat traM(crml the Yo.l:o. .aad

Nortbwe:u Territoria •• a part of Ca~a~d1., the Manlcotr. A«. Thotic document!l h appears to nM would have to be in03rpo·

r111cd to en~u~ the. CCW~tinuance ol whate"r"Cr rights they would hiiVe si,•cn to the l\ll ti -~ people In Canada.

Mr. N)'Stl'C*: Thank )'011 W1')' m•c~

n. JGi•l Oalrau (SC'Miot Jl •1t) n.u.t )'011 YCI)' mlldl. Mt. Nysttom.

Mr. AJk:n and Mr. Smith, Mr. Joc. Mr. Smith rcptatftti,.. the Counc;il tl( Yuk011 lndiatu, we Y.'tre pleased that you were

here and ot1 behalr or the Cotnmlttcc I wish to thank you. We wiJi takc )'Ol!! brid' i11to CON*ratJon wbc:tl we arc m.tk:itll ou.r npoc1 alld I ,,. -.~ the Comminu luw kznscd a JtUI deal

d11D 1ftc:mooiL Wa do waru to tllsak yoa alld. "" beblt olmy Joint Ct!al!man.lh•nt you vefy much. for bcia.a het$.

Mr. AJka: Mr. Chairmaa, I vroukl ju.u like to CllptCN 14

you11df and to the Committee rnc1nbcn "'·c thank )'OU docply ror ah·ins u.s t he opportunity ~0 rcptcttl'lt tbe views or 00! poopk aDd we tMAl; you a.pitl bcc,aue:. il it: mot.~ putly

•PPJ«ii.lcd. n.t Joiiat OalrMe.a (Stwu., Hap ):: T'!ta.nl: y01 "")' mllC:Ia.

Members oltM Committee, tomorro• at IO:JO a.m. we will be meeting the C11 n:.adian Catholic: Trustcct~ A51oclltton: at 11:30 a.m. the Canadian Council on Social DevdoprnC'tlt, tl\at

1t tentative. and 11 3:30 p.m.. tbe OoverMm.cnt ol New Orum• .-kt, Pranict Hatf~ld and 9:l0 1.m on Fricby. tbe S&Wtc.h· C'WiiD llc:.maJt Riptt CornmiAion.

3·1 2·1980

(1'rsns-lollo,)

11 f• vt reool'u'laftrc la droiu dCJ •~o~tocllllones dan• unc c:ntainc lnCAltc et il fa•t kl ud!hscr. Al •• k p~'UI'IC"tfiC:M &'cn~h ck ft~~ pcri'III.DCIIte CIWC'fJ k potUpk iD:hc•. Noa npi-ric.nCCl llOtiS ont cla,rcmut dimontrt que. t'i:l n'y a pcu d'~n,aaaemcnt. k touvc:rncme~u n.e: nt;oc:icril p:1~ awe le.

peuple lndltn. M, N)·ttr<~m:: Ma dernitrc qualton, , En oo.ncluJkln,

d'aJril, vot~ prOJIO' anttrlt.un. la proc:Jamllioft royale de 1163

e:u. trh tmponute « dnra•t itrc: ~ d.artt ta ~itu, 00. c• "IH de protiJC',r voerc pnqlk. "'OJ rcwMQt:ionJ tnfko. riala c' vw droits cot~tthutionnds., n'cs.t-cc pal? Je park de b proclarnatioo de 176J,

M. Joc: Oui. 11 raadrth enchas:su non fculement l.a proc:ln· matioll royale, mail 111ual lk nombrtu11. documents COiu thu·

tiol'locb 11& • t'artielc 1•. a~~Xql.lda 011 •c rait mCme pat a!lulio11. Ptl.r Qtmpk.. k lJ jln11 1110, •• am.t m OC*aJ a prev.. tc transfert de$ Tcrritoira dlt Nord-OIKN a du Y~tkoo

au. C•n•da. e:n nrtu de la lci sur k Manltotla. 11 me .fembh q11e.. Jl()ur ut11rcr le retpoct des droitt aceordb v,u 11. autochto­nca du Canad11 c.n vertu desdits dO<:umenu, i.l raudralt la iDCOrporcr dans la con1thution.

M. Ny.u.a: Merd beai,K)QII,Ip.

lA~ (tiulfW lbys): McrQ bd..co.p. moucvt

N)ttrom M~•leurs Alien, Smhh tl Joc. rcp.Ucnt~&nu de$ lndien• du

Yukon, il nous a (ail ploltlr dt \'0111 enttnd~ 1&ujou1d' hui, tt jc ''OUS rcmucic au nom du Comili. NQUJ allotiJ tcniJ compte de

votrc mtmoire Ion de la t«<aetklrl du rappor1. « je sui' oertlin que lo Comiti: a bcaliCIOup aPPri' M a.,..O.midi. Je vrout

tcmcrdt •• 110m du O..it.t Cl d• ~nt.

M. AIJ• n: Monsieur le pr&idc:nt, j'a imcn~b vou:t rcmcn::lcr, aiMi que let mcmbre5 du Co1nitt. de nouJ a voir orTttt 1'0«11·

i iOl'l d41 prbt:ntct k5 points <k V\le de nouc 5111\lpk Nous 'f"'''I t:n UWIN &rC. jc: ¥0llt t:n remercie.

lA c:opm.i4Hit (HMfrw Hays): Mad bc:tlucoup.

MM. ks mcmbrcs du ComitC, tiOQS allona 'ntmdrc I'AMiCJo. ci•tlol"' des conscilkrs -teolalru canadie.u <kmain a 10 b JO,

Noua nuroo~ aussi une ~union d 11 h JO nv-.:c 1-c. Conacil Clll8d lt:n dU c,liveloppc:mt.nl IOC.ial- mail CCI.i C$.1 sujct ;\ f~\'l •

lion-et •ae autre i I 5 h 30. oiJ ncMJ5 U!ICI'di'OIU M. H110dd. prcmkr ~n~nkt« du NCIIIwau-Bnlftllwict. Vadtedi. 1 9 h )Q,

a1mport.lln. ftl C~ da drotU de: la pcnon:ne de: SoMh u:htwan.

La •~•nee dt l e~~e.

. , ,. 017 ..... , Jt u~""-11' "''Wfl (:0\'fl" ONt 'f 10 c .. II~IAII (kiiiOVI'WI+t nl ,.,,,., ... "CC Ol!>e~

$01(11)1~ 1110 s,,.,.,Cl., C1n,u:11 45 S..C•e-Cot\1'1 DWit•,..CI Hull, Outt«: C•n1111" I( IA Q!P c., cif .,_,,1)11'1.\!o''"'a~m. 11IOIIt""' c•tr• COO~tfi,.TUUE Sf:UU'MtNr 11 IMfl(i!nlltll <lu IIOI""''"I!n"lt-"'' ~lll\l(lt~ol

,l;>I!!'0¥!510-m.twh 11 S111o"t.•• C¥1111:11. 4$, nouleol•d S.Cr .. C (INr 1-•MI. OvtbK CIYIIOII I( IA 01>7

WITNes5ES-TbtOINS

f'I'(Jiffl ,._, COUld/ jol Y•kM Jlflii.Mt.·

.!off. fllfl)' Alkll. ct.amnaa:;

Mr. EJ•p" Smith, VKe-Ciaairman;

Mr. Dllvid Joc, lAaaJ Cout~ttl:

Mr. Mlch;ad Smith. Lepl Counsel.

A••lb.tlt ,.. lk C..tll iaa C•vtl"n~l P~tbliillllll C .. IJI• S.,..,. ... Sr"k"" 0 • .... •· Hill, Qwk<-, C1_,1 I lA OSt

Da .c~lldl p Y.t<N~ J.&~

M. Harry Alk1, pmick11;

M . Elijall Smith, vb.pra.i«M..,

M. Da..,icf Joe. •~c·ClOfiMil; M. Mic:h!Jcl Smit.h,avOCIH•COntcil.

[e ..,ne~ Ceatrt I'H IIiOIIil JMII"ffllf .,_., 11• Can•4•, A,.....~-un n Stroicet C. .... . Ht~l. QIWIIK, C1_,1 KIA OSt